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The Fruits Of Our Labor

March 2, 2012 by  

The Fruits Of Our Labor

On Oct. 7, 2001, the U.S. military began operations in Afghanistan in retaliation for the Sept. 11, 2001 airliner hijackings and attacks on the World Trade Center in New York, the Pentagon and another undetermined location in Washington, D.C.

The goals stated by President George W. Bush at the time were retaliation against al-Qaida for the attacks, the removal of the Taliban theocracy that ruled most of the country and provided safe haven to al-Qaida, and to bring “justice” to the reported mastermind of the attacks, Osama bin Laden.

It’s now been 10½ years and al-Qaida is decimated and all but gone, the Taliban has been removed from power and the Barack Obama Administration is negotiating with Taliban leader Mullah Omar to end the conflict, bin Laden is reportedly dead (for the sixth or seventh time), 1,908 U.S. military personnel are dead from the conflict and the U.S. has spent more than $506 billion.

Are the Afghan people grateful? Apparently not.

Yesterday morning, two American soldiers and one American citizen working as a teacher were killed in separate shootings, supposedly in retaliation for the burning of a few copies of the Koran or the Quran or whatever they call that filthy, hate-filled screed they consider a holy book. That brings the total of Americans killed over the incident to six, despite numerous groveling apologies by Obama and his underlings. More than 30 Afghans have also been killed in six days of violent riots over the incident.

I have to ask: Why are we still there?

Oh, I know why we’re there, and it’s not what most of you think. We’re not there to nation-build. We’re not there to fight terrorism. Look at a world map, find Afghanistan, think of the big picture and you’ll know why we’re still there.

But I wonder how much longer it will be before the American people are tired of the fighting and dying and throwing away of American dollars, ostensibly, to bring democracy and civilization to a backward, uncivilized, barbaric society that will resume killing one another once the common enemy — America — is gone, a society that believes killing innocents is an acceptable response to destroying a few books.

It appears it’s going to be at least four more years, because the purported front-runners for President — Obama on the Democratic side and either Romney or Santorum on the Republican side — have made it quite clear they intend to expand empire America and continue the wars to establish U.S. hegemony over the entirety of the North Africa /Persian Gulf region.

Our labor in that area has borne a rotten and extremely expensive fruit. How much longer will the American people be content to continue to till that ground before rising up and demanding an end to it?

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • General “Bull” Krapper

    How about slapping copies of PinocchiObama’s apology on a coupla hundred Daisy Cutter’s & dropping ‘em over the trouble spots of Afghanistan? And if they still don’t get it, do it again. Maybe, we can help our brave military men with some air back up. Also, let them do what they were trained to do. Time to take all the PC BS restraints off them, unleash them to wipe out the scum & then bring them home. — VOTE FOR AMERICA in November — Stay Well/Stay Safe/Stay Free

    • absolutely amazed

      Why were we ever there, or in Iraq?? And why did the Bush administration protect the Saudi’s who were involved in supporting/facilitating 9/11? And getting the Saudi diplomats out of the country the day/days after 9/11? The current policy of finding and targeting the individuals who are responsible for this terror as is underway and got bin Laden is remarkably successful – why destroy entire nations for no good reason. The guys who sat around in the White House from 2000-2008 ought to be brought to trial for their complicity in these catastrophes.

      • General “Bull” Krapper

        So it’s Bush’s fault. You forgot to mention Halliburton. — My comment was to hit the trouble spots there, not the whole country. Also, that we spend so much time & money training these brave people, then we castrate them by slapping all sorts of inane PC restrictions on that training, thus not allowing them to properly defend themselves, or kill the enemy. We could have, & should have, been out of there many years ago, if we only allowed our military to actually be a military force, rather than a sitting duck police force. — Again, Stay Well/Stay Safe/Stay Free

      • Jay

        Maybe you should change your name to absolutely stupid. You Do realize that your savior, Obummer, ran against the procedures and policies of the Bush Administration, but changed NOTHING and used those procedures and policies to get bin Laden don’t you? You Do realize that your savior, Obummer, has ramped up the Afghan war don’t you? You DO realize your Apologizer in Chief has single-handedly caused the death of Americans doing his “Bow to Kings and Forgive Me” tour don’t you? Then again, you probably don’t because you are a left-wing nut job that has swallowed the Kool Aid of the most corrupt Administration in history…an Administration that says the hate Wall Street, but have taken in more campaign dollars than ALL OTHER CANDIDATES EVER…COMBINED! Who has appointed MORE Wall Street execs as Cabinet than any other president ever! Who ran us into more debt than ALL PRESIDENTS FROM GEORGE WASHINGTON TO GEORGE W. BUSH ADDED TOGETHER. But when you drink the Kool Aid from the fountain of your savior you tend to miss that. Just crawl back into your hole and continue watching pMSNBC. There’s nothing to see here…move along….you fool.

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear absolutely amazed,

        The attack should have been on Saudi Arabia. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/01/us/graham-and-kerrey-see-possible-saudi-9-11-link.html?_r=3

        But I’m sure Bush was afraid he’d lose a hand. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2005/04/the_idealist_in_the_bluebonnets.html

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Billy

        I believe the president should go out and kill Bin Laden again. He died about 9 years ago, but that is OK. If he kills him again perhaps it will help in his Re-election. Too bad about that seal team that went in to do the deed – now all dead from an accident. Guess they won’t talk.

        Things are getting better though. We are still getting more people on the government roles for the equivalent of food lines. The good part is that they will not want to have the moneys, from the people who are still working, shut off, so along with the people who have been sneaking into the country illegally, MORE NEW VOTERS for this democratic fraud of a president. I wish the Republicans were some better. goooh.com

        You might want to check out how General Martin Dempsey and the other members of the staff stopped, at least temporarily, the nuclear holocoust that Obama wanted. You can find the article at: larouchepac.com/obama-holocaust

        Have a nice weekend provided that Obama does not start pushing the buttons on the nuclear football. You do realize the man is insane.

        He is so good on the teleprompter. How sad !

      • Old Henry

        Some of you may have seen this, but speaking of appologies…

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYEctbGSkkw

        This young lady nails it.

    • castaway

      General, you took the words right out of my mouth. Personally I would rather we carpet bomb the populated areas, then Claim Afghanistan for our own, The mineral rights alone would repay what we have spent there, When we are done, leave them a waste land that is good for nothing.

      • eddie47d

        That is why we don’t want people like you running this country Castaway. You seem to get too giddy about death,destruction and taking wealth out of another nation. War to you is a badge on honor and the consequences are as void as the space between your ears.

  • JC

    We are still there to perpetuate the illusion that there is a war on terror to be won…
    It’s a crock, but a useful tool in the “training us to believe whatever we are told to believe”.
    Now get in line for your X-ray or groping before boarding your domestic flight…like a “good” American. ;-)

    • castaway

      Not only that JC, but you will be stopped at all state border crossings like in Europe.I’m sure sooner or later we will need to fillup paper work inorder to ask permission to travel to another state. Its coming! We either stand and fight now, or live with ourselves for doing nothing to stop it. Good Greif it is so obvious what is happening.

      • Stefan

        “but you will be stopped at all state border crossings like in Europe” when were you last in Europe? castaway. 30 years ago? there are only virtual borders in EU. You will bi stop only entering the Balkan countries, serbia, basnia and croatia. Croatia will soon be open as it is joining the EU.
        As far as why are we still in Afghanistan? Plain & simple, we are stupid. Next time vote Ron Paul, or someone like him. And people, get out of cocoon and visit the world maybe you’ll see something different, better, the world that don’t live in fear and paranoia. Come here to Europe, come to Croatia. You may not want to go back. Yes you may need to show your passport, but hell, I do that every time I go back to “visit” the good al’ USA.

  • Armyblue

    Brits left, French left, Russians left, and even Karsi (?) would like to leave even seen sporting local Taliban. Get outta the opium den like yesterday.

  • Dee

    As far as I’m concerned, islam is not a peaceful religion, it’s a religion of terrorism.

    • TML

      The United States are the terrorists… wake up Dee

      • Beacon007

        I agree with TML.

        USA even sucked Canada in, through NATO.

        I am ashamed.

  • northbrook

    Why? Good question Ten years is long enough. Time to leave the Afgans don’t want us there/ By the way where is Karzi’s appology for the Americans being killed. Arrest the killers

    • John

      Why would he apologize? What part of war don’t you understand? Remember who invaded whom? Remember we the US invaded Afghanistan, they did not asked us to invade them and destroy their country, NOPE we did all of this of our own free will on a witch hunt leaving the true perpetrators, the Saudis of the hook. You condemn Afghans for killing Americans? What would you do if say China or Russia would invade the US and try to re-educate our citizens to their political system as we do in Afghanistan? Welcome them with open arms and present roses? Or would you fight them wherever and whenever you can?

  • niles

    Obama apologizing and kissing their butts worked real well. They are laughing at him.

    • Deerinwater

      Why are we still there?

      A better question is why were we ever there?

      A poorly conceived venture, little more then a ruse to distract activities in other places , while offering the American people a notion that justices was being persuade.

      However, it all serves a purpose as we attempt to make the best of a bad situation.

      The Taliban needed the resistance but I’m not completely certain that it is, maybe changed it’s name, changed it’s location. But the idea lives on.

      We fight here in America to contain our more zeal-full Christians as they attempt to introduce their brand of Christianity on government and society. The fight of minds, ideas and dominion doesn’t seem to have an end.

      Someone is always using God matters to inflict their will on others.

      • Wendell

        deer confused, as Pres. Reagan would say, “there ya go again” spouting nonsense that no one can decifer as to what you are talking about. If you don’t know why we are in Afghanistan by now, you will never know. You must be one of those conspiracy idiots.

      • Deerinwater

        Be so kind and enlighten me.

        What had the country of Afghanistan done it Americans?

        You tell us.

  • Jay

    Thank God, Obummer apologized and assured us everything was calming down BECAUSE he had apologized…oh…wait…this happened AFTER the apology? So then “Obama lied and Americans died” for his quran…

    And saddest thing is, these qurans were already destroyed by the prisoners that carved them out or tore them up to pass contraband…and they are going to “punish” the Americans that made the “mistake?!” Hell no!

    • eddie47d

      Tell us what would have happened if there wasn’t an apology for that travesty? How many more Americans would be dying if we had be cold and callous about this mistake. Obama avoided and even bigger disaster and every one of our errors or actions brings out the martyrs looking for an excuse to kick out the foreign occupiers. The Karzai government is the biggest stumbling block in Afghanistan and even the lowly farmer doesn’t want Kabul running the affairs of the other states/provinces. We sure know how to pick our puppets when we attempt to control other countries. I’d like to say we never should have entered this country but that is hindsight but foresight says its never too late to do so.

  • http://httpaol.com sean murrey ILLInio

    SCREW those people.

  • castaway

    Please vote Ron Paul, so we can begin to rebuild our republic.

  • http://www.cindynel.co.za peter

    When is enough really enough? Perhaps only when all the oil is gone and there is no more oil, however the planet will be devoid of any decent palatable water or food long before that, so shall we just carry on regardless, getting our priorities wrong AGAIN and assuring our extinction is well on track. Nutcases, all of us!

    • Billy

      There is plenty of oil. Obama stopped the pipeline from Canada-
      See he did not want the oil in the U.S.

      And now “Obama’s giveaway: Oil-rich islands to Russia”. He still does not want us to have low cost oil. How could he better break the economy than by denying cheap oil?

      http://therealrevo.com/blog/?p=67316

      Perhaps this is a gift, so that when we attack Iran and Syria, that Russia, who has said that “an attack on Iran is an attack on them”, will not Join China in the attack on the U.S.

      China gets a lot of oil from Iran and has also made the threat. By giving away the oil rich lands to Russia perhaps Russia might forgive the attack on Iran, although Russia did not like it when Obama attacked Oil Rich, and clean water rich, Libya.

      What did they expect from him? He is pushing the New World Order and has to control every country. Russia probably won’t like it when they are next either!

  • http://none Raymond P. Narushof

    You Know there is a saying that I’ve heard dozens of times over the years that seems to be aproproiate to this whole Middle East situation , it goes like this “those who fail to understand History are doomed to repeat it. If you read a history book, ( not taught in our education system, any more, or glossed over lightly to cover the curriculum requirements, for graduation, at best are the same people who got us into this military Quagmire, & to what end, none of the leaders of that region can stand on their own two feet, & defend them selves, & depend on us to save their bacon, (pun intended) but would do the same to the others, if the shoe was on the other foot! The actor George Scott, said it best as Rommel was retreating from the Kaserine pass ” I’ve read your book, Rommel) ENough said

  • Capitalist at Birth

    We should have bombed them into the stone age. It wouldn’t have taken too much, as they were already close to the stone age anyway. We should never have invaded Afghanistan. Evidently this was not possible. So we invaded. For what? China gets the mineral rights?

    • gwen

      Thank you for mentioning “CHINA” same thing in IRAQ, they got the OIL Contracts, after our BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS not to mention beaucoup BUCKS! To the Victor goes the Spoils (CHINA). In Sudan they are extracting the oil there and in exchange they exported FLIP FLOPS and put the Native Sudanese out of business, his hand made “FLIP FLOPS” and now he can’t earn a living! Cheaper Flip Flops from CHina!
      Look at Nepal they completely took over there and almost wiping out the Buddist monks. They are off our Coast by Texas Gulf extracting Oil there. The Keystone pipe line OBAMA stopped and that sand Oil is now going to CHINA!.OBAMA in case you haven’t heard did some deal with the Russian giving them some islands off Alaska and and the OIL THERE??? it just happened reasonly and no talk about that??? Also, one last thought it is about the oil it’s called the TAPI OIL PIPE LINE, Turkeminstan, Afghanistan and India!!! When we secure Afghanistan all this will happen and again our BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS, Billions $$$ later!! By the way we are doing Nation building in Afghanistan, hospitals, wells, schools roads, infrasture, farm management, FOOD AIDE, crop failure because of a 6year drought. Karzai says in order to get the job done we need to stay another 5years??? I bet he would
      love that and his Drug running brother.This is another country that runs on CORRUPTION! The Heroin Addicts there now are contracting AIDES because of shared needles. The diaspora of their population fleeing fighting since the Soviets occupiers and their brutal military against the population and destruction of the artifacts and antiquity! i heard from an Afghan working back in his country in haumanity aide SAID< IRAN is also big time there giving $$$$ to the SHIITE"S (Hazara) descendents of Ghegis Khan and second rate citizens by The Pastuns. These days that is being reversed because of IRANS influence$$$! one last thing Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan got together and emphasized The Islamic Republic of IAP! so a Caliphate is being put in place making the Russians very nervous and their influence in their own Country and their Muslims population. Don't forget they extracted #millions of $$$ from us just to keep our AFB Manos in Kyrigastan!!
      Just don't get knee jerk emotional do your homework about the Chess pieces on the board the WORLD's players!!!

    • TML

      They were already close to the ‘stone age’ yet somehow they are enough of a threat to the most power nation on earth, that we should have just bombed them into the stone age. Brillant logic there Cap

    • John

      Why not? What makes you believe that the US has any rights to those minerals? Because we chose of our own free will to spend billions on a war? The people of Afghanistan did NOT asked us to do that … nope we did it on our own. We can be glad that Afghanistan does not take the US to the international court and sues for reparations and payment for the hundreds of thousands we killed and the destruction we did to their country.

    • Beacon007

      Your title explains alot. You were born into money, is that correct?

      Get a job.

  • JD

    We will be there until the end of the USA or enough force is brought to bear to ensure our withdrawl . We would still be in Vietnam today if we weren’t forced to leave . Same as we will never leave Germany , Italy , Japan , South Korea , Guam ,let alone Iraq and Afghanistan .Well you get the idea as the list of countries that we have bases in is more extensive than the Roman empire could have dreamed of . It appears that financial force is not enough to stop our occupations and war protesters are the joke of our society so that only leaves our destruction . That inevitable demise will kill off most of the world , us included . I know , when you see the train tracks lead to an abrupt end your not supposed to mention it but keep on smiling and cheerleading .

  • GiveMeLiberty

    In WWII it took us 3.5 years to totally and completely defeat TWO evil empires simultaneously. We are quickly approaching 11 years in Afghanistan, with no apparent end in sight and still jacking around.

    I second your rhetorical question Mr. Livingston, WHY?

    • Jim

      I’ll answer that Why. Because the west and especially the US doesn’t have the stones to fight war they way it should be like they did in WWII. It wasn’t called the Greatest Generation because of the military folks alone. It was because the civilian population supported taking care of buisness quickly. Now its all international opinion and political correctness. If you go to war you bull in the china shop overwhelming force and then start rebuilding which I’m against that too.

      • John

        The simple truth is, we do NOT have the manufacturing base to support an all out war like in WW-II. During WW-II the US had the factories and knowledge to convert those factories into a gigantic war machine, today we neither have the factories not the knowledge… we would not be able to pull WW-II of at the current time. We are dependent on the world economy to produce our weapons. The patents and parts used in modern weapons come from all over the world and if the world would stop delivery, the US would run out of military hardware rather quick.

    • TML

      “In WWII it took us 3.5 years to totally and completely defeat TWO evil empires simultaneously. We are quickly approaching 11 years in Afghanistan, with no apparent end in sight and still jacking around.

      I second your rhetorical question Mr. Livingston, WHY?”

      I would say because that (WWII) is the last time America ever actually declared war. Now we have presidents who wage undeclared unjustified wars unilaterally against any ‘enemy’ that can be placed under the vague reference of a tactic (terrorism) which will be as endless, and as much a failure as, the drug war.

    • Greg

      Had the politicians stuck their nose in the military like they have since Korea, we would all be speaking German. If civilians don’t get out of the way, they must be considered combatants. Our military is a war machine, not to be used as a police force in enemy territory.

    • http://gravatar.com/tillacum tillacum

      WWII was fought as a war.
      We Bombed the countries, then we sent in the ground crews to clean up what was left of the German and Japanese forces. We bombed until the civilian populace rose up (so to speak) and cried NO MORE. We totally ruined their countries. Today we’re pussy footing around, trying to play nice to the civilian populace, who are living their lives as if there’s no war and helping their friends, whom we are “fighting”. We’ve submitted our troops to a “president” whose act of war, disallows the military to fight a war unless they are being fired upon, first. We have generals who “want” to civilize the enemy. This is all Pushwah. The “enemy” is fighting a guerilla war, while we’re using military tactics. It ain’t workin’ and we’re hurting vital military personnel because of our unwillingness to accept this battle with the muslims as a WAR. We have a Chief of Staff who knuckles under to a president who hates this country and loves our enemies. Too many of our generals and admirals are politicians who live to go along to get along. Should we plan to win, we need to do to the Afphagans what we did to the Germans and Japanese. It will never happen…muslims love to hurt one another and anyone else. We’ve seen what happened in Iraq under Hussein, we’re seeing what Afphagans do to their own when they “disgrace” themselves. This is a fight to nowhere…it is not a war, as was is defined.

    • http://gravatar.com/daledubois Dale DuBois

      Russia tried and failed so in goes the USA and we are failing also. Never should of went there the start with, time to move on. The country is not worth saving.

    • Odell Vaughn

      I was in WWII and in combat over 550 days and lost both legs..One great difference in the two wars was that our enemy wore Uniforms. .We could tell who we were fighting.We knew who to shoot.Now days The man You are friendly with may blow your head off.

    • http://yahoo.com don oxenhorn

      you forgot to mention he is ageorge soros puppet also a radical muslim plus a moron.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1017374136 Ray Davies

      Why???? The last word ever spoken

    • Ronald L. Young

      Why have we been in Iraq and Afghanistan ten to twelve years each and WWII only took the U.S. 3.5 years to defeat Germany and Japan? Perhaps the answer is wars cost a lot of money and run up the national debt. Also, wars justify military arms (weapon systems) development and keeps the military skills honed with real action battle scenarios. What other country in the world stays as constantly engaged in war actions as the U.S.?

    • Buck

      As in Viet Nam , we are forced to fight ” politically correct wars , for no reason other than political reasons . such war-fighting is unwinable as their are no practicle goals and the rules are made up as we go along . RON PAUL has the answer , bring our men home to guard the homeland and let someone else police the world . We have to much to do to fix our own country , economy , energy , employment problems , and tyrannical federal government . RON PAUL for President !!!

      • Ronald L. Young

        Buck, I am in agreement with your comment. I also served in Vietnam and though we served with pride in the uniforms of our country, many of us knew then and most of us knew in hindsight that it was a costly engagement in lives lost and destroyed, not only for the Vietnamese, but also for we Americans in their civil war. Let me know if you would like to read a 25-page article I wrote last summer about the war, the times and focused around two American lieutenant heroes who heroically gave their lives fighting for the cause of South Vietnam. The article is titled: Final Farewell: The Day the Star Died.

    • BHUDDA

      The goal in Afganistan was to go after terrorist that harbored Bin
      But Obama desided to enter the civil war and rebuild the country . The death toll wasn’t much at the end of Bush’s presidency . The cost in lives and money came under Obama .Even I know that you don’t try to get involved in a civil war.

    • Tom Young

      Why so long in Afghanistan? Easy- Like Korea, Viet Nam, and Iraq, Afghanistan is a war that the U.S. (or the United Nations) is not SUPPOSED to win. The powers that be controls the war so it cannot be won. These wars are INTENDED to wear down the U.S. military so that the U.S. (AND Canada) will be FLATTENED in the coming 3rd World War, and the North American continent will be knocked back to the days of the horse and buggy and the coal oil lamp. It is planned deliberately, and the U.S. and Canadian governments are co-operating with the plan, as are all other elected governments in the world, because the plan will bring forth the New World Order (of supreme hardship and slavery for the common people).

    • Ken Day

      I hope we are going to rid the country of that evil empire in Washington…

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003034360632 Schillie Young

      our sojers havent been permited to do any real fighting otherwise we’d be done already all of the fighting we’ve done is so called peace-keeping that just puts our sojers in danger with little or no reward if we get out of this so called war things will just go back the way they were and we’d have less say in world leadership. it also gets the most pariotic men and women out of the way perhaps i should say strongest young people who would say not in my america and have them out of office by now if they wer’nt overseas.

    • http://yahoo Richard

      Sir, you’re on target. Ever since Korea, we haven’t been interested in finishing the job. We keep hearing, “what’s the exit strategy/” Hell, how did we get into a position where we had to ask that question? Swartzkopf knew because he was a mission motivated general. There is no substitute for quick and complete victory. Then again, our resolve changes AFTER we get involved. Political considerations over military objectives will get good Americans killed every time… and for what? The what, (as in what do we hope to achieve)needs to be totally considered BEFORE we go in in the first place.

    • Gerry

      History has proven only 1 man was right in this conflict, Rummy.
      Large foot print in in Iraq small one in Afganistan 2 wars won in a matter of a couple weeks. Control switched from DOD/CIA to State/Justice Departments and congress, policy changed to small foot print Iraq, large one Afganistan the result 2 fiascos.

  • Steve

    We should erase at least 100 Afgans each time they murder an American!

    • TML

      Spoken like a true terrorist

      • http://gravatar.com/danceman100 danceman100

        No, you kill terriost and let them know it is very expensive to kill Americans. You have no stones and must an Ovomit supporter, that ‘s sad.

  • Jim

    Bob, although I agree with your point about why we are still there and that these genetically stone age people are and will always be. You messed up your facts. The civilian teacher was killed in Norther Iraq over a typical student to teacher argument. The kurds up there are the most civilized Iraqi there are but they still live in a turbulent/war zone and have for generations thanks to Sadam. Afghanistan is just pre-historic period. Two different situations.

  • RivahMitch

    You ask, “why are we still there”.

    My question is “why did we go there in the first place”? History (Macedonian, British and Russian, among others) makes it clear the Afghanistan is an inhospitable place for foreigners in general and foreign troops in particular. IMHO, and I’ve said it from day one, the Bush response was suboptimal and has accomplished little. Far better would have been to use two or three small nukes on locations where Bin Laden was likely to be, then announce that any similar attacks on the American homeland would meet a like response… the invasion of Iraq would likely have become unnecessary and the middle east as a whole much more congenial to American interests today.

    • Gerry

      Everyone forgets history, especially history teachers like Newt. When Obama bin Laden was in Sudan, the US moved him to Afganistan. The Afgans didn’t even want him there. The US was not attacked by a single Afgan -Pushtun, Uzbek, Tajik, or any of the others.
      The US was attacked by Arabs from Saudi Arabia and Yemin with money they got from the Saudis especially the Saudi Monarchy. But the US would attack our real enemies, so they pick a backwater that no one cares about. Iraq was just Bush 41′s failure that ’43 and Wolfowitz wanted to correct. Well guess what these middle east @-holes need a sociopathic secular dictator to contain these people like the plague they are. That is why Iran needs a Shaw, Iraq needs Sadaam, and Egypt needed Mubarak. And of course Pakistan needs the Old British Empire to oppress them back up into the 14th century instead of the 8th century they live in now.

      If I were president my only Foreign Policy speech would be to the UN, “The US is not the policeman of the world. We are your executioner. Live in peace and you shall live in peace, violate that peace and you shall not live. There are 6 billion people on this planet that are not Americans nor our friends, and every one of you is expendable. This is your only warning.”

      • RivahMitch

        Gerry:

        I’ve no objection to your speech but I believe the (3 nuke) opening I suggested would have worked wonders in focussing their attention.

  • J.M.R

    pull our people and equipment out then bomb the hell out that country

  • TML

    “the Koran or the Quran or whatever they call that filthy, hate-filled screed they consider a holy book”

    With all due respect, Bob… have you ever even read it? Come to think of it… have you even read Bible? One could easily say that the Bible is a hate filled piece of filth with some derranged God who orders people to commit atrocious acts one after the other.

    As with any Holy Book… it is the soul of the person which pulls from it either good or bad. The Bible (Torah) orders people to to kill non-believers as well, even if they be your wife or brother.

    There are your extremeist fundamental Muslims, just as there are you extremist fundamental Christians and Jews. So, lets be genuinely fair shall we?

    • Kurier

      You can tell a lot about a person and/or a belief system by the fruit it bears. What type fruit is Islam bearing to the world? You cannot seriously and logically make a case of moral equivalency as to extremism based on the teachings of Islam vs Christianity…they are diametrically opposed to one another. One is based on a totalitarian ideology and the other is based on grace. Can you figure out which one?

      • John

        look at Christian history, millions more where killed by Christians in the name of their god then in all of Islams history… on the American continent alone an estimated 100+ million people where killed by the conquerors in the name of god. Be converted or be killed was the motto.

      • TML

        Kurier says, “You can tell a lot about a person and/or a belief system by the fruit it bears. What type fruit is Islam bearing to the world? You cannot seriously and logically make a case of moral equivalency as to extremism based on the teachings of Islam vs Christianity…they are diametrically opposed to one another. One is based on a totalitarian ideology and the other is based on grace. Can you figure out which one?”

        Holy Roman Empire… Dark Ages… Crusades… Inquisitions… Salem Witch Trials

        Yes, Christianity bears bad fruit as well under an organized theological government.

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear TML,

      You write: ““the Koran or the Quran or whatever they call that filthy, hate-filled screed they consider a holy book.” With all due respect, Bob… have you ever even read it?” All of it? No. Much of it? Yes.

      You write: “Come to think of it… have you even read (sic) Bible?” Many times. Have you?

      You write: “One could easily say that the Bible is a hate filled piece of filth with some derranged (sic) God who orders people to commit atrocious acts one after the other.” One who said such a thing would be wrong and would demonstrate they had not read the Bible in a way to gain an understanding of what it says.

      You write: “The Bible (Torah) orders people to to (sic) kill non-believers as well, even if they be your wife or brother.” The Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament. It is a history of the beginning of the Earth, life on Earth, and man. It is a history of God’s interaction with man. It is a history of Abraham and his descendants. It is a history of Moses leading God’s people out of Egyptian bondage. It is a description of the Law as handed down by God to Moses on Mt. Sinai. It also describes what his chosen people are to do to the unbelievers residing in the land they are about to occupy, the land that he had promised to Abraham. It does not describe how Jews are to treat unbelievers today, or any time outside of the period of settling the Promised Land. Therein lies the difference, and it is a great one. Also, I don’t recall reading about many (any?) Jews going on hate-filled rampages and killing sprees over the desecration of the Torah. I don’t recall reading about any Christians going on hate-filled killing sprees over desecration of the Bible.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • TML

        Bob says, “All of it? No. Much of it? Yes.”

        Only the bad parts right? ;)

        Bob says, “Many times. Have you?”

        Absolutely… 5 times front to back and the Quran twice front to back, along with books such as The Book of Enoch and Jasher a couple times each. Not to mentioned continuous cross-reference studies.

        Bob says, “One who said such a thing would be wrong and would demonstrate they had not read the Bible in a way to gain an understanding of what it says.”

        Not true… there are many atrocious acts commanded by god, and while I do have the understanding of what it says, along with the complete list of apologetics, they are nonetheless acts of atrocity that only a blind zealous believer would defend.

        Bobs says, “The Torah is the first five books of the Old Testament. It is a history of the beginning of the Earth, life on Earth, and man. It is a history of God’s interaction with man. It is a history of Abraham and his descendants. It is a history of Moses leading God’s people out of Egyptian bondage. It is a description of the Law as handed down by God to Moses on Mt. Sinai. It also describes what his chosen people are to do to the unbelievers residing in the land they are about to occupy, the land that he had promised to Abraham.”

        So, we’ve established that you view the Torah as a mere history book, and agree that in the law handed down by God to Moses describes what his chosen people are to do with unbelievers. Very good sir. Yet, what I was talking about was not what they were to do with the people who occupied the country that they were taking from them… it also describes that…

        Deuteronomy 13:6 – If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
        Deuteronomy 13:7 – Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
        Deuteronomy 13:8 – Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
        Deuteronomy 13:9 – But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people

        This is not the only verse which orders to kill non-believers, much like the Quran does. This is ultimately my point, so let’s stay on topic.

        “It does not describe how Jews are to treat unbelievers today, or any time outside of the period of settling the Promised Land. Therein lies the difference, and it is a great one.”

        Really? So the Torah laws are not longer valid in Judaism today? Tread softly, my friend.

        Bob says, “Also, I don’t recall reading about many (any?) Jews going on hate-filled rampages and killing sprees over the desecration of the Torah. I don’t recall reading about any Christians going on hate-filled killing sprees over desecration of the Bible.”

        But doesn’t your article say… “killed in separate shootings, SUPPOSEDLY in retaliation for the burning of a few copies of the Koran or the Quran”? (emphasis mine)

        If I recall, we didn’t take to kindly to book burning Nazi’s who were invading almost every country. And what kind of an asinine jack-ass would burn a Holy book in a country of Muslims anyway? Was pissing on their dead bodies not enough? Exatly how much do we expect these people to take from us as the big bully in school before they turn around and lash out?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Thanks for pointing out the obvious to TML.

      • eddie47d

        …..and San Antonio rose shows up. Yahoo!

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear TML,

        You write: “Only the bad parts right?” You assume much.

        You write: “So, we’ve established that you view the Torah as a mere history book, and agree that in the law handed down by God to Moses describes what his chosen people are to do with unbelievers.” A God-breathed history, yes. Moses was not present for much of the history he recorded. He would not know of those events without Devine inspiration.

        You write: “Really? So the Torah laws are not longer valid in Judaism today?” I am not Jewish and do not practice Judaism. However, I do not read of instances where Jews carry out this portion of the Law that calls for killing unbelievers. It was a message for a different time.

        You write: “ Tread softly, my friend.” Why must I. As a believer in Jesus Christ I am convinced He nailed the Law to the Cross. Jews who practice Judaism are following a false religion just as Islamists are following a false religion.

        You write: “If I recall, we didn’t take to kindly to book burning Nazi’s who were invading almost every country.” Non sequitur.

        You write: “And what kind of an asinine jack-ass would burn a Holy book in a country of Muslims anyway?” As I understand the story, the books had already been defaced by Muslims who had written in the books and removed pages. The commander believed he was disposing of the books in the proper manner. At least that is the “official” explanation I read from one source.

        You write: “Exatly how much do we expect these people to take from us as the big bully in school before they turn around and lash out?” I’m sure you’ve been long enough to know that I don’t believe we should there–or anywhere else–nation building. Ron Paul’s philosophy on foreign policy almost mirrors what I believe our foreign policy should be. No. I don’t blame them for being angry with the occupation.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • TML

        Bob says, “Why must I. As a believer in Jesus Christ I am convinced He nailed the Law to the Cross. Jews who practice Judaism are following a false religion just as Islamists are following a false religion.”

        That’s fine for you to believe that I suppose… but to say Torah is no longer an iatrical part of Judaism today would be incorrect.

        Bob says, “However, I do not read of instances where Jews carry out this portion of the Law that calls for killing unbelievers. It was a message for a different time.”

        I don’t see anyone burning the Bible in Jerusalem either.

        Besides, they’ve only found ways of apologizing it away in the face of a modern world, just as the Christians do by dismissing these portions of religious law. Which is fine, actually, because I’d rather they not consider such verses valid. Indeed, I’ve made the same arguments. Some however, will pick and choose what part of such law best suits them for their own changing purposes, and those are the ones I will normally rail against.

        Still, it took a very long time for Judaism and even Christianity to mature in this way, and both have historically yielded bad fruit along the way… especially when the religion runs the government. Islam is still relatively young in comparison, and currently installed as a theocracy in government. Knowing the history of their own religions, this is what secretly scares Jews and Christian about Islam enough to vilify it. There is nothing wrong with Islam, except when it is installed as a government theocracy… as with any religion.

        Bob says, “Non sequitur.”

        It was in reference to you saying that we don’t see Christian’s or Jews going on killing sprees over desecration of the Bible. I then point out that, even according to your article, the purpose of the two isolated killing were only ‘supposedly’ about such desecration. That it is presumed.
        I then went on to speak in terms of ‘if that was actually the case’, and likened American troops burning the Quran in Afghanistan to the book burning Nazi’s.

        Bob says, “As I understand the story, the books had already been defaced by Muslims who had written in the books and removed pages. The commander believed he was disposing of the books in the proper manner. At least that is the “official” explanation I read from one source.”

        A Muslim defaced the Quran, and the American commander thought he was honoring their religion by doing what he thought proper? That is farfetched to say the least.

        Ultimately I’m glad we agree that America should not be there. I would just like to see the religious based hate come to a halt. Just because a Muslim is a Muslim, doesn’t mean they are bad people because of what it says in their holy book.

    • http://yahoo.com don oxenhorn

      this quran is not the originial book. if these radicals followed there would no trouble,the only way to beat the todays idiots is nuke them before its to late please read all books by biget gabriel.

  • Clarissa Westenburger

    You cannot kill or burn or shred the Truth, whatever form that media serves Truth to us. Truth shines out eternally. After all, Jesus said, “My words will never pass away.” So what happens when madmen try to burn a book, whether that book is the Koran, the Torah or the Bible? Madmen know how to set off other madmen with their antics, leading to death of innocents. Burning books, bombing newspapers, bombing churches, temples, mosques, and all hate rhetoric that leads to slaughter should be prosecuted as a hate-crime against the targeted group, whether Christian, Muslim or Jewish. There is a greater threat to our liberty to choose what faith we want to believe whenever the Supreme Court protects hate-crimes as mere free speech.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Clarissa, where ever the muslims went on rampages the Torah and the Bibles got burned and the populations got killed. The Torahs and the Bibles are books and were rewritten and replaced, human life is more valuable than books. If you notice there is no shortage of Torahs and Bibles.

  • Sweetviolets

    I think it is time to gather up all our toys that we brought to the party and leave. Those things we can’t take with us we blow up and render them useless. Let them have their government without our financial or political or military support. They don’t want democracy, they want their religion and sharia so let them have it. Let them live like they did 1800 years ago. That is what they want. Give it to them.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Thanks for stating the obvious. But the ones who want the formation of the New World Order have deemed the USA as the body of people to be parasitized to create that Utopian World.

  • Neil Swan

    The Taliban are the religious right of Afganistan. There was a religious right group in this country that called themselves Christian Malitia and believed the government was anti Christ. They were going to kill a cop and bomb his funeral, to go against the government.
    Thats why I believe the religious right in any country are nothing but problem creaters.

    Neil

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You do like to talk nonsense as you don’t know anyone from the religious right.

    • eddie47d

      Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson for starters.

  • Buck

    I feel we should IMMEDIATELY pull everyone out , not even worrying about a draw down .We have evened the score from 9/11 and our being there serves no purpose at all because just like Iraq as soon as we leave they will go back to killing each other , nor is this a bad thing from my point of view .

  • Beacon007

    Arguing back and forth on problems, does not give us any solutions.

    I have a suggestion, listen to Ron Paul, then decide.

    Give Peace a chance.

    Cheers.

  • Steve

    I have heard that if anyone writes anything in a Koran, i.e. notes on the book, it is considered to be defiled.
    When a copy of the Koran is defiled it is supposed to be destroyed, as it is no longer pure.
    Who wrote on the Koran? Not USA soldiers.
    Who followed the Islamic laws and destroyed the defiled Korans, USA soldiers.
    Why has not the Islamic leaders thanked the soldiers for following their laws?
    It should be obvious to all by now, if you say yes you are wrong if you say no you are wrong.
    You cannot win get out! They do not want help, they want to stay the way they have been for thousands of years.
    If they really wanted to change they would do it themselves.
    I am not American, I am from a country that has been your ally for a long time, I have been at war with you, but let me say this to you who are Americans.
    If you guys do not fix your own country then the rest of us are in deep trouble. You are privileged to be the world’s leading power, with this comes responsibility. Not to police the rest of the world but to lead it by example.
    You need to get rid of the leaders and politicians that are disregarding the constitution and your freedom, the rights given by God to people to have a free will, to live in peace.
    Get rid of the greedy people who give handouts to bankers who rip off the people and then cry that they have to be protected as if they are the backbone of your country. They are parasites living off the hard work of every day Americans. I am all for the capitalistic system, tell me how bailing out liars and thief’s when they get caught out stealing people’s money is capitalism? Tell me how giving $2,000 to people who had their homes taken off them illegally is fair, when the crooks that did it get Billion dollars handouts of tax payers’ money?
    America wake up before it is too late! Your apathy is not only destroying your country it is killing the rest of the “free” world as well.

  • Jerry

    Ron Paul is are only hope to stop all this madness.

  • Smithkowitz

    The bottom line, people who retaliate through acts of violence when they are not personally (physically) under attack nor are they being held against their own choice (which would be physical) and being mentally bombarded; these are the people who have no place here on earth. Maybe this practice of burning should be increased? Anyone that retaliates with violence is taken out immediately. Their true colors will have been revealed and earth is not a home for their kind. It is a similar mentality that also runs in many who become part of gangs in this country. What was that age old saying: symbolism and words might bring me death, but the justice system cannot harm me? I know that’s not the saying, it’s something to think about though . . . .

  • Scott W Trent Jr

    We do not WIN anywhere anymore because we no longer follow the rule that WAR is Hell…. there are no friendly (ies) in war. All are suspect and if they are in the way of the war machine, so be it. NOW-a-days we fret over every one and every thing. At that rate the U.S. will NEVER WIN a war!

  • marvin mcquaid

    we want the oil the germans and japanese had nothing we wanted but their hides. we should beat up the folks in the middle east and take the oil at a nice discount price.

  • ranger hall

    GODS PEOPLE,EGYPTIAN BONDAGE,It also describes what his chosen People are to do to the Unbelievers residing in the Land they are about to Occupy.
    I think that The Jews were Not in Bondage in Egypt. And i understand that the Jews on their way to the chosen land Murdered all men and Women and Childern in their path,and when they arrived in the Promised Land they also Murdered the Men ,Women and Children, Well this is their God not Mine. The Jews still kill Women and Children, Arabs and Americans anyone that gets in the way of Their Goals.
    Even our People are picking up these habits.Coll. Damage as they call it today.
    Afganistan was a very stable Country until we Invaded Them, Lowest CRIME in The World, 8th in drugs in the World UNTIL we took over, NOW they rate #1 Must have been all the new Tractors and supplies we supplied them. Yes we make things better, And just think they used your tax dollars to make this happen, Not counting the Lives of course. SO the Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer. And you sick People want to blame this on Afgan People.

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