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The Fast And The Spurious

June 21, 2011 by  

The Fast And The Spurious

It is one of the most famous questions in American political history. As the Watergate scandal began to consume the Administration of President Richard Nixon, Senator Howard Baker asked: “What did the President know, and when did he know it?” The answer, as those who escaped victimization by the teachers’ unions know, is: Everything… from the beginning.

This same question has resurfaced fairly often during President Barack Obama’s regrettable occupation of the White House, but perhaps never more deservedly than now. While the Administration has stonewalled inquiries, denied information requests and dragged its feet in responding to Congressional demands, the outrage over the nightmarishly mishandled Operation Fast and Furious (OFF) has reached Chris-Matthews-on-crack decibels.

OFF was the now-infamous failed sting operation conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in an effort to track the pipeline of weapons between the United States and narco-terrorists in Mexico’s lawless border region. The cost of failure for OFF could be measured in dollars, but rattling off some nine-figure number (more than $100 million and climbing) has limited effect in the age of trillion-dollar national debt figures, double-digit unemployment figures and Michelle Obama’s room service bills. Besides, the real cost of OFF is tragically human.

In 2009, Eric Holder’s Department of Justice determined that Mexican drug cartels were engaging in illegal weapons purchases in the United States. So-called “straw men” were buying the guns and transporting them across the border. As anyone who has ever purchased a firearm knows, such schemes are a serious violation of the law. In the case of OFF, thousands of such weapons purchases and cross-border deliveries were made with full knowledge of — and sometimes in full view of — the ATF. One would presume that a competent Attorney General — not to mention a competent President of the United States — informed of a series of colossally bad decisions on the level of OFF, would immediately begin nailing subordinates’ careers to his bulletin board. At the very least, one might presume that the Attorney General — not to mention the President — would be aware of such a series of colossally bad decisions.

However, according to both Attorney General Holder and his big buddy in the Oval Office, they were unaware that Assistant U.S. Attorney Emory Hurley “orchestrated” the disastrous OFF with knowledge and approval of his boss, U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke. (It should be noted here that both Hurley and Burke are Obama appointees.) And yet, the nine-figure catastrophe, which cost the lives of Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata and Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, somehow escaped the notice of the highest levels of the Obama Administration. At least, that’s their story, and they’re sticking to it.

If you’ve watched C-SPAN lately, then you’ve seen Congressman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) attempting to choke a straight answer out of the Obama Administration regarding OFF with the expected amount of success (none). As far back as February, Holder denied any knowledge of OFF. As recently as last week, White House spokesmodel Jay Carney responded to press corps queries with evasions on par with: “‘Fast and Furious?’ That’s that movie with Vin Diesel, right?” Obama’s Democratic accomplices in Congress, including Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) and Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) even tried to distract Issa’s House Governmental Affairs and Oversight Committee meeting from investigating OFF with tangential anti-Bill of Rights bloviating. But testimony and documents reveal a very different story.

According to ATF agent testimony, field agents had serious misgivings about OFF from the beginning, but they were ignored. Department of Justice emails obtained by Issa’s office indicate acting ATF director Kenneth Melson actually watched illegal straw purchases taking place at Arizona gun shops while he sat in his Washington office. In fact, agent testimony indicates that even the cooperating gun shops warned that OFF was a bad plan.

Good people were killed. Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent. Thousands of guns were illegally transported across the border to Mexico, most of which have yet to be recovered. And the President of the United States and the Attorney General claim to have had no knowledge of Operation Fast and Furious. Let’s take the (Olympic distance) leap that neither Obama nor Holder are lying (surely, protecting the New Black Panther Party can’t take up that much time). Instead of asking what the President and Attorney General knew and when, the question should be: Are they criminally incompetent or just criminal?

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • DaveH

    Is this what you call a self-fulfilling prophecy?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok8B46JyXFY

    • icetrout

      Rule of Law???What’s that??? Governor of Maryland suspended the “Rule of Law” for his “New Americans” years ago. It’s now a free-for-all ,do what ever you can get away with!!!

    • vicki

      Of course they can trace 90% of the guns. They set up the sales to begin with.
      Now in reality they can only trace the guns they allowed to be sold and not the 90% of guns from other sources. Just another attempt to suppress OUR right to keep and bear arms.

      Interesting question. Why can’t they trace the other 10%? Are they that careless with chains of evidence? (Broken when the guns enter Mexico anyway)

  • JeffH

    It is all out in the open now. The BATFE allowed thousands of guns illegaly acquired and feloniously smuggled into Mexico under the stealth supervision of Holder’s US Justice Dept. It is also very clear that the scheme was designed to further Obama’s propaganda campaign to pass new gun control laws ans regulations.

    Thanks to the NRA for demanding Holder’s resignation and the efforts of Issa and Grassley for not letting up in the administration’s stall tactics of the “Fast and Furious” BATFE gun scheme.

    Firearms dealers who reported suspicious and multiple sales to purchasers were told by the BATFE to go ahead with the illegal transactions. In some cases BATFE agents waited outside the dealers with video cameras instead of handcuffs and warrants. It’s been reported that about 300 of the 2500+ guns were recovered in criminal activity on both sides of the border.

    It’s now up to us to contact our representatives and demand full support for Issa and Grassley in this congressional oversight investigation. Demand the resignation of AG Eric Holder and the accountability of every official involved in the planning and execution of “Fast and Furious”. Let’s see that those responsible are brought to justice.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      JeffH… I agree. I believe that saying they would track the illegally taken over the boarder weapons was only the half of it. They were going to use it as an excuse for gun control. The lies that come out of this administration compound one another! The press is letting this slide as usual. Wouldn’t it be nice if just the facts were reported? Most Americans are capable of deciding who to believe by knowing the facts. Some will continue to drink the kool-aid.

    • Vagabond

      Jeff the head crook nor his second in command will never be punnished. they will be rewarded with a lucrative lifetime retirement that we the tax paiyng public can only dream about. if a service member were guilty of half the things these criminals are guilty of that person would be stripped of all rank and pay and priveleges and spend the rest of their life in fort leavenworth,

    • icetrout

      What kind of retards would name an operation “Fast & Furious”?

      • Cawmun Cents

        Aha!…..perhaps you should think about who the real retard is?Is it those who can subjugate you,or you the one who is willing to be subjugated?You wait for x-amount of days for your semi-automatic,dumbed down version of protection,(and meanwhile back at the pass)while the cartel drug runner gets what you want for basically free.Who is the retard in this picture?You pay for a license to own that which the government basically gives to those who dont even have the American citizenship status which you posess!And you go along with it because the laws protect you.Yet that same guy who gets those weapons at cost,can amble across the river and use the government supplied weapon to dispose of you.Since you cant afford the luxury of obtainig weapons at cost,(because you must be licensed to own one)now that foreign national has the drop on you.Capice?Enjoy chewing on the retard seat on the shortbus and shut the hell up….or lock and load….hello Mc Fly?-CC.

        • patriotpartisan

          If you spent a little more time explaining how tyrannical gun laws are and how subjugated we the people are, and not just sling mud as if we comply for fun, you might be able to make a point that others listen to… instead you proceed to alienate others with the typical Left-Right mud-pie fight. The Feds illegally skirting the same laws they illegally enforce on us is the issue; not who is dumber, the tyrant or the servant. Help instead of hurt…

          • Cawmun Cents

            I wish you knew me better sir.I wish that you had read many of my earlier posts.I have spent years on this very thread,speaking of the way in which unjust laws have been produced by both State and Federal legislators.But it occurs to me that we let these tyes of laws come into being,and those who perpetrate them continue to breathe.My reply posts often have a tinge of sarcastic malaise to them,But I mean no harm to the OP.I often pose my rhetorical comments in the form of questions,a sort of safeguard to being held in contempt by any but the extreme left.They(the extreme left)will always hold me in contempt because I constantly ask questions which they do not want to answer.My intent in posting is to incite thought,not to impose vacuous attacks on anyone.I often offend people who dont know me and those who do.But my intent is to offend you in a way which stimulates cerebral action,not to cause anger.I humbly apologize if I have done the latter in this case.-CC.

          • April

            Sorry Patriotpartisan
            I have to dissagree with you. Firstly, Cawmun Cents is no mud slinger, but he is not a passifist either. Secondly, It is nice to see someone speak up passionately about the twisted ways in which the government mandates unconstitutional laws to control we the People. Folks such as CC, Kate8, Jana, JeffH, Vicki, and Samurai as well as other researching patriots are so appreciated for their passion and stance on behalf of getting our Nation back to our Constitutional Republic and Godly principals and values.

      • stRanger

        They wanted a “Fast” way to pin gun crimes on the law abiding but now that they’ve been caught they are “Furious”.

        The Usurped Obama Regime is the most utterly criminal administration in US history. The two top “cops” in the nation, Obama and “I’m going to make some changes in the Bill of Rights” Holder are coincidentally the two most criminal in the nation.

        Don’t look for those two crooks to cooperate with the LAW. They both know nothing will come of this. Issa has held his position for as long as Obama has held his. Obama has moved mountains since his inauguration while Issa is still fiddling with his plastic beach shovel and bucket.

        Law enforcement is no longer on the side of We the People.

        • karolyn

          This kind of stuff has been going on forever. How much have we never heard about? It’s just another day at the office for Washington.

          • Jana

            Especially for Obama and his uhhh OPEN administration.

          • Carlucci

            Yep – they’re not called the Federal Mafia for nothin’! (Brilliant nick name and description by a true American named Irwin Schiff).

          • JUKEBOX

            About twenty years ago, there were 500 Walther PPKs stolen from a gun manufacturer in Alabama. The FBI agents assigned to the case were ordered not to sleep until they solved this crime. They did solve the thef within two days, and one FBI agent told me that the number of guns was enough to take over most South American countries. My point is: What country could you take over with 2000 AK47s?

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            karolyn… I seldom agree with you, but i do on this. So much goes on in Washington that to know about all the stupid things that are allowed to go on would make a normal person’s head explode! And, the ‘untouchables’ (Congress and leaders) could care less that they are spending the money of the hard working tax payer. Not to mention lives that are changed by their decisions.

    • Dan az

      Lets not forget the Home land security big sis is up to her elbows in it too.Nothing is done with out their knowledge and blessings.The fact that they control the movement of the FBI and ATF and Border patrol ect.And the fact that the border patrol only had Bean Bags to shoot back with ordered by the HS jokers says that they weren’t aloud to interrupt there games.And where does the buck stop?Just look back to who had the mexican president here bad mouthing us in the alphabet news and applauding him for doing it.The fact that hillary went done there and made a big deal about how it was all our fault that these weapons where being sold to illegals missing the fact that allot of them were military M16′s that the US gave to their police.All the time hillary was signing a UN treaty to take our guns.Another failed Obummer project,if he had gotten away with it he would have had his picture in news saying he single handedly stop it on his own.It’s time to get to the truth and let everyone see him for what he is.

    • TIME

      If you all think back a while to just after Barry was placed in Office, what was old Hillery the PILL talking about?

      Can I get me a wittness here, Oh yea, it was all the guns coming from the USA and going south of Da Bodor.
      Yea now can all of you see the puzzel with all the part’s that were missing back then?

      People this is all about taking away your “LIBERTYS,” granted under the Bill of Rights.

      Now just apply this to BarryO Care as it takes away the 5th and the 9th and 10th, as well opens the door to the UN Agenda 21 Population control by way of allowing Congress to mandate what products you MUST buy and or use.
      That extends all the way to allowing you to even breath air. Can you see the light at the end of the tunnel yet? I sure hope so as we don’t have any TIME left.

      If we don’t fix the wrongs of the Bent Political Machine NOW, by 2014 the United States of American will be a Foot note in History.
      Can I make that any more clear to any of you?

      • slickporsche

        Guess what Time? It ain’t gonna happen. As the saying goes,”its all over but the cryin. It would take a lot of very brave people to get the job done,and we have so little time left its either now or never.

    • Lee Baldwin

      the family of Customs Enforcement Agent, Jaime Zapata and Border Patrol Agent, Brian Terry should sue the Obama and Holder for a hundred billion dollars. It is outrageous for the Attorney General to say he “didn’t know about this” -is a lie.
      Next those two guys will sell nuclear arms to the Taliban disguised as a ‘sting’ -what a load. WE SHALL SUE YOU OBAMA. “We the People” have spoken. Start acting like leaders of the greatest nation on Earth

      • JUKEBOX

        Obama says that our bombing of Libya is not a hostile action. He and Hoder must have some potent drugs in that bong they’re sharing.

    • DaveH

      Don’t forget the complicity of the Drug Wars in all this. The American people fell for the “give up your liberty for security” scam, and now we are paying the price. Government officials have been enriched (more power and perks and ?). Drug Lords have been enriched (and money is power). Our Fourth Amendment rights have been compromised, and our Second Amendment rights are under fire. Many innocent people have lost their lives, or dignity and peace of mind, as a result of paramilitary-style raids by over-zealous police. Oh yeah, they assure us that they were following “procedure” as if that somehow makes it Okay to take innocent lives. And now Mexico is being run over by Drug Dealers’ violence. And after all that, they still haven’t stopped the drug trade.
      They have taken away our liberty simply for the “illusion” of security. And all for what? To stop illegal drugs that kill 1/5 the number of people each year that alcohol does, and 1/25 the number of people each year that cigarettes do. If fact, illicit drugs kill only 1/2 the number of people each year who die from adverse reactions to prescription drugs. And we all know how prescription drugs are advertised constantly on TV.
      We’ve been duped:
      http://www.drugwarfacts.org/factbook.pdf

  • PatHenry52

    I suppose on the bright side, nobody can claim my freedom is somehow directly responsible for and is open to debate at all in any further incident of violence from, well, anywhere. Where’d the bad guy get the gun, the U.S. Gov’t of course. Haven’t liberals been claiming that for years in their obliviousness toward right and moral (U.S. Military persons of lower rank(that actually do the work, rather than talk about it)) and the criminal and immoral (violent organized criminals)…

    It’s still not worth the price of course, but it’s something I suppose.

  • Dennis

    Just curious – Is Ben Crystal related to the very formidable William (Bill) Crystal? I like his style of writing and he’s obviously on the right (appropriate) side of the isle politically.

    • JeffH

      Dennis, Ben certainly has a special flair in his delivery that is bot engaging and entertaining.

  • Bob

    If this had happened under a Republican administration, the scum of the media would be blathering with outrage and demanding that all involved be sent to prison. Because this happened under the direction of a scumocrat, very little has been said. The collusion between the media and the democrats must be investigated and stopped.

    • skippy

      You are sooooooooo darn right Bob. I am sick of how the media just keeps turning their head and not reporting on such matters. It will be very interesting to see just how they handle the 2012 elections for sure. It’ll probably just be another BAD JOKE on all of us.

      • Bob

        I am afraid that the bias we have seen to date will pale in comparison to what we will see in the upcoming election. The marxist/atheist/degenerates will pull out all the stops to win this election in order that they can continue their plan to destroy the USA.

      • Lee Baldwin

        So Skippy and Bob, it is up to us to educate the people that voted for the Obama the first time so they don’t do that again. Talk to them just like you write stuff here. All of us here already know not to vote for the Obama again, but those maroons that did it once will do it again if they don’t obtain some ‘direction’ Bring up all these poor choices the Obama has already made. Point out the fact of him being an illegal alien because that birth record isn’t even his. Ask them how their change is working for them. Ask them what their health insurance costs now. Ask them if they still have a job.

      • JUKEBOX

        I believe you used the wrong adjective in describing the media reaction to the 2012 election. The media promotion of the Obama agenda is going to be downright scary, especially if Obama gets re-elected.

    • exbuckeye35

      Bob, you misspelled a word. The first four letters shouldnt be ‘scum’ should be dam* -(ocrat). LOL

  • Tony in MO

    The whole claim that 90% of the weapons that end up in Mexico were purchased in the U.S. is total BUNK! When you see the stockpiles of weapons seized by Mexican authorities, consisting of fully automatic weapons, RPG’s, grenades, LAW Rockets and the like, there is NO dealer in the U.S. who deals in such weaponry, legal or otherwise. Most of those weapons came from foreign countries and were smuggled into Mexico along their extensive Atlantic and Pacific coastland borders as well as their southern border with Central America. In order for a U.S. citizen to, a. purchase; or, b. possess, a fully automatic weapon, they must first undergo an extensive FBI background check and must purchase a special Federal Firearms stamp for each weapon and those cannot be obtained easily. I would opine that most of that illegal weaponry came from S. American dictator run countries such as Venezuela, Argentina and the like, not to mention European weapons manufacturers and suppliers.

    • Vigilant

      Is it legal for anyone to purchase a fully automatic weapon? Semi-automatics, yes. What state allows purchase of automatics?

      • Antonio

        Every state allows the purchase of automatic weapons in the USA. You need to get a class 3 lincese to purchase such weapons, however, When buying such full version weapons you will need plenty of money. For instance, you can buy an uzi carbine for about 1200 more or less or you can buy an uzi smg for about 11,000 dollars. So it is much easier to convert them.

        • Mikey V.

          Just a point of correctness here: there are several states that outright ban full auto ownership, even assuming all Class III NFA rules are complied with. NY is of course, one of them. This may change under Heller, but so far, it has not.

          • Antonio

            Thank you.

          • TIME

            Milkey,
            Thats is corret, as well having any hand gun in the NYC is a crime.

          • http://juno Sollyboy

            Yes you can own a hand gun in New York after they rake you over the coals with fees, frequent applications, delays, police station visits and nasty police attitudes. These are the same guy’s who are supposed to be protecting us. They really shouldn’t be getting our support.

          • 45caliber

            Time:

            It is easy to own a handgun and carry it in NYC. All you have to do is become a NYC politician. Then the permits are free and easy to acquire. A policeman can usually get one too. But if you aren’t one or the other (or both) then you may as well forget it.

        • DaveH
      • Cawmun Cents

        I have a question teacher(said litlle Johnny from the back of the room)…..Why do I as an American citizen,have to apply for,obtain,and support the Federal Forearms License,so that the government makes it hard for me to own fully automatic weapons,when they use the proceeding funds to arm Mexican cartels so they can use them against me?-CC.

        • DaveH

          They can do anything they want. And they’ll justify it with the Commerce Clause.

          • April

            They can only do what they can enforce and what We the People allow.

          • vicki

            Which is one of the many reasons the government does not want us to have fully automatic weapons.

      • JUKEBOX

        With the right background check, it is legal to buy and own automatic weapons.

        • http://MSN CHARLEY60

          Automatic firearms? Dream on with some common sense folks. Sure you can go through a lot of red tape and own them. But why, under the sun, would you want to? Have you stopped to think??? It would take a common mans months wages to fire any of them for 10 minutes in ammo cost. What fun would that be? What do you think you’re going to need them for otherwise?

          • vicki

            For the same reason the army and the police need them. Crowd control.

    • Dark Knight

      Tony in MO, you are definately on point! I agree with your assessment. Furthermore, not only are the Democrat Representatives Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) and Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) already trying to run blocker during the preceedings but many have since been jumping off 0bama’s Ark as well. Heck, just last week Al Gore gave the kiss-of-doom endorsement to Mitt Romney! C’mon, a show of hands….who saw that one coming?
      This is huge. The Congressman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and his staff will need all the support we can give them in landing every one of these slippery bottom-feeders responsible for authorizing this to the justice they deserve.

      • BBJOHN

        Dark your on track with Al D- Gore who gave the nod too Ol Mitt I think because Mitt’s been known to associate with Bilderberger’s and the likes! Gore has had many meetings with this new world order group,same as the clintons and the bushes their all in it together along with the shameless U.N.(Hell Is Coming To Breakfast)

      • DaveH

        That’s not so hard to believe (Gore/Romney). Romney has endorsed the concept of Homogenic Global Warm:
        http://thinkprogress.org/green/2011/06/03/236305/mitt-romney-reducing-global-warming-pollution-is-important/

    • meteorlady

      You are 100% correct in your post. There are training camps in all these countries that citizens of terrorist countries attend once they get a visa to go there. They stay and learn the customs and language and then are smuggled across our borders to blend in with the illegal latinos. If the weapons can go out, they can surely come back in. In fact there have been numerous weapon caches found in my state. We have asked Obama’s administration on 17 separate occasions to secure our borders. We have received no answer, nada, nothing….. The US Constitution states that we are to be protected from foreign invaders and that is precisely what is going on right now today. These people believe and are taught that we stole their land and they have a right to take it back. We are under siege and our government needs to start defending us.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Respectfully meteorlady,I disagree.You need to protect yourself.That is why the Constitution tells us we have the right to keep and bear arms.So we can protect ourselves.We have to do away with regulations which curtail our ability to do so,freely.That is the only way we can substantiate the reasoning behind our rights.Federal regulations do not protect you,nor do they seek to.All Federal regulations do is to impose a tariff on you so that it makes it difficult for you to protect yourself.All you have to do to understand the truth behind my claim is to observe todays laws and there it is.The corruption is that which you seek to let the government impose on yourself and others as a result of your being to lazy or afraid to do it.Arm yourself….with knowledge.Dont let the government keep the knowledge for you.That is where tyranny is perpetuated.

      • April

        That is what the 2nd Amendment is for meteorlady.

    • Master Gunny

      More outrageous was the report I read that claimed that many of the siezed weapons were provided to the Mexican government by the US government as FMS (foreign military sales) or as foreign aid. Corrupt Mexican officials proceeded to bleed off a percentage of the weapons and then sold them to the highest bidder. Of course the injustice department would much prefer that we don’t become aware of these facts for reasons that are all too obvious.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Become the cryer for which no soapbox is too high to speak from.Denounce the depravity of eliteism,wherever it rears its ugly head.That is your directive as a citizen of this nation,is it not?If we were to all shout the eliteist oppressors down from the seats of power,then who could stand against us? Would God?Not if we were acting by and through His will.Not if we could turn to Him in our shame and ask him to forgive us for letting this nation He forged become so idolatrous and greedy.The nation still has time to repent of their sins against His commandments.Do you fear these slimy rats,which frequent your halls of justice?Has their ability to speak with a forked tongue made you wary of their might?I grow weary of arguments which support their filthy lies.I would rather die a free man,mouthing words of encouragement,than live as a silent slave to tyrannical elites. Let them come and taste my blood,as they hear the words which condemn their actions.When will we rise to defend that which our fathers set before us?After the purveyors of depravity have too strong a foothold on the necks of the righteous?Will we be held down by pseudo-intellectual academics and raped?Will you allow them to run rough-shod over your livelyhoods that they might crush what you have shed blood sweat and tears to obtain?Our shame before the world is limitless.How can we be proud before the nations of the world after having given our birthright away for a grubsteak?God will not let us survive if we do not turn to Him in our hour of need and beg forgiveness for this brutal sin we have waged upon ourselves.Take courage,we have a redeemer in Jesus Christ.We can still win the day,if we keep our heads in the process of the game.But we need to pray everyday tha God will show us mercy once again.-CC.

      • http://MSN CHARLEY60

        So post let’s say next week we find out the Mexicans have massed at the border, unarmed, with there family. Thousands of them. They walk through the fence into the US, spreading out in every direction, followed by thousand more from central America. What are you going to do, start mowing them down with these automatic guns you think we need? Of course not. We have jumped on other countries for doing that. How can we. If you folks remember your history we did the same as in the ME. took the land and relocated them. When do you stop and realize this is the plan? Not just us but for all of central and north America to be joined. Just several weeks ago Obama signed a treaty with Canada to make a study for this and joining,like Europe, in one common currency called the Amero. I only saw it even mentioned on 2 news sites. That is why for the last 50 years securing either border has been nothing but talk. Want to save money? just join the states into 3 or 4 of them into one. Use this technology we have now to communicate. It would save 100s of billions spent on redundant operations.

        • Cawmun Cents

          What if they are not benevolent like you envision?What if they have a communicable disease and spread it to the heartland of the nation?Biological weapons can be used in this way and are far deadlier than”assault rifles”.You assume too much.The problem with your assumptions are that you base them from an emotional stance,not an intellectual one.Bringing two(speaking of states and nations which have their own problems)train-wrecks together only makes a bigger train-wreck.That”forming”a new state thing works under absolutism,but not under capitalism.You would necessarily need a more socialist government to perform that man(EU)ver.This is another elietist attitude which is only brought up by those who support the leftist elite.Why do you support them?Is it your intention to be a do gooder?Socialism destroys.It never mends.There I said it.-CC.

          • independent thinker

            The rise in TB cases is primarily if not totaly from the massive unchecked influx of illegals. It is also my understanding that the TB coming in from Mexico is highly drug resistant and difficult to treat.

    • Lee Baldwin

      or the US Government, Tony in MO. ~You didn’t vote for Obama did you?

  • DANNY

    Don’t forget the other more important reason for fast and furious. To further push gun control by blaming the proliferation of guns in Mexico as caused by gun sales in the US. How convenient.

    • Lee Baldwin

      NOT gonna work.

  • C130 Gunship

    I believe the whole operation was to create a gun problem that didn’t exist to begin with to let the mulatto Mussolini impose harsh new gun laws-remember the ‘under the radar comment?’. Since it has backfired in their asses, the head of BATFE will be forced to resign then hopefully ‘turn dime’ on ‘those who are in the know’ and bring down EriKKK (my people) Holder and perhaps the mulatto Mussolini himself. At worst this is more ammo for the presidential contenders to shove in Obama’s face come election time, and nice addition to the hundreds of incompetent actions he’s taken since illegally occupying the oval office.

    With the deteriorating economy, unjustified/illegal war, housing collapse, ObamaCare, the national debt, and continuous declining poll numbers, I’m praying the mulatto Mussolini will resign.

    • skippy

      Sorry C130, resign??!!! are you kidding, really??…really?? that will never happen. he’s too busy right now trying to figure out how to stay where he is indefinitely!!!

      • exbuckeye35

        We can always hope!!
        Abe L.(the original – not the pseudo ‘thinks he’s Abe’ guy) said:
        “You can fool some of the people all of the time; and you can fool
        all of the people some of the time; but you cant fool all of the
        people all of the time.”

        Plus three cheers for the NRA!!!!

        • Carol

          It is also attributed to P T Barnum. Lincoln was supposed to have said it in a speech, but there is no documentation of it. It is something that has probably been said many times even before Lincoln.

        • DaveH

          Well, he should know (Lincoln) as he fooled half of the people.

        • Vigilant

          Lincoln never said that. DiLorenzo quashes that myth on pages 35-36 in “Lincoln Unmasked.”

          • DaveH

            Are you implying that I said he did?
            Funny that, coming from a man (or woman) who has disparaged DiLorenzo’s credibility in earlier comments on other boards.
            You just kind of pick and choose whatever supports what you want to believe, don’t you Vigilant? And then, of course, if you believe it, it is “fact”.
            Seek help.

          • Vigilant

            Are you implying that I said he did?
            Funny that, coming from a man (or woman) who has disparaged DiLorenzo’s credibility in earlier comments on other boards.
            You just kind of pick and choose whatever supports what you want to believe, don’t you Vigilant? And then, of course, if you believe it, it is “fact”.
            Seek help.

            (1) Check the thread. I was replying to exbuckeye35.

            (2) Even a broken watch is right twice a day. Where DiLorenzo is accurate, he will get credit. When he is wrong I will say so (and have).

            (3) You may start with the insults, I’ll respond only to assertions of fact.

          • DaveH

            The last two sentences of my comment apply whether you were speaking to me or not.
            Insults? You’re a laugh riot. Here is a comment from one of the other boards, from Vigilant, the civil guy:
            “Well, I get tired of shooting fish in a barrel. Sparring with mental midgets is no contest”.
            Go here to follow that thread:
            http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/government/america-no-longer-the-land-of-the-free/

          • DaveH

            You have no credibility, Vigilant.

      • independent thinker

        The acting director of ATF has resigned. I would hope he will turn on those giving him orders but definately will not hold my breath waiting for him to do so.

        Fast and Furious and its companion Project Gunrunner have nothing to do with arresting any durg cartel members except perhaps as an afterthought. It has everything to do with more gun control in the US. The guns were supposed to be captured in Mexico then traced back to the US dealers so Obama, Holder, and all other anti-gun people could use it to put even more restrictions or even bans on firearms in the US

        • rockin on

          Thanks for connecting the dots for me in this fiasco. I knew something sounded out of place with the whole story, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. It made no sense to send all those guns to Mexico and somehow have it help catch drug cartels. How was that supposed to work? It’s about tracing the guns back and curtailing our gun rights. Duh. Thanks.

        • Lee Baldwin

          IndependantThinker is absolutely correct. the Obama is after our guns.The first thing a dictator must achieve is disarming the people.

        • 45caliber

          independent:

          Of course he won’t turn on them. If he does, they will put him in jail for “allowing the murder”. If he keeps his mouth shut he can walk away with a big retirement check and can possibly get the same or similar job in another couple of years after everyone has sort of forgotten his name.

      • C130 Gunship

        Hey SKIP, no, I’m not kidding, he’s a total FUBAR president with numerous policy failures…..Read this my friend: http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/37677

        One of many reason the mulatto Mussolini is toast!

    • http://PersonalLiberty JLS

      But will our candidate use any of the issues you mentioned. I certainly hope that whoever the candidate is, has enough gumption to point these issues out to the electorate.

      • JeffH

        JLS, very good point.

      • always right

        You can wish…The current flock (like sheep) of republicraps are spineless, afraid to criticize the black-man-who-isn’t-a-black-man lest we have riots in the streets. (Ho-hum). They’re in a word sissies. Look and boehner polishing barry’s balls for him in their little golf outing instead of calling him out. They’re all cut from the same fabric: used pampers.

        If there was a single vertebra among the republicraps they’d have been all over the eligibility thing 3 years ago. But we get only dead silence.

    • RivahMitch

      C130…

      I like that identification “the mulatto Mussolini”. It’s dead on… Mind if I use it occasionally?

      • C130 Gunship

        Run with it-I don’t own it, I watch the Military Channel daily and ObamaCommie is the mulatto Mussolini. How can you be half white and half black and call yourself ‘black?’. His pathetic egotistical mannerisms are exactly like Mussolini, watch the films and compare!

        • Cawmun Cents

          His publicist(Valerie Jarret)must be very proud,of you comparing him to Mussolini.As a member of the NEW PARTY socialist mob,I am certain she would appreciate that you harken back to Italian demogogues,as she and the Chicago bunch would have wanted it that way.-CC.

  • http://personalliberty.com Alice

    With the current admiistration, either of the following scenarios could be true: 1) Holder and the President knew about and authorized the sale of arms to Mexican drug cartel members and were too stupid to track the guns and make the operation successful, or 2) Holder and the President put the operation in place deliberately to further the idea that guns are of themselves dangerous and gun sales should be restricted in America. Come to think of it, either case is stupid – ergo, it is typical Oboma administration activity.

    • independent thinker

      No. two is definately the case. BATFE does not have the personnel in Mexico to do any follow up and keep track of the firearms after they cross the border and many times could not even keep track of them before they left the US.

  • Dark Knight

    Now that the whistle has been blown, the hard part will be to locate the evidence (videos, phone transcripts…if any, paper trails, etc.) that is going to be needed to nail all who authorized this totally un-American scheme.

    • 45caliber

      Dark:

      They have been busy the last couple of months disposing of all those things before someone demanded them. In fact, I suspect some are still being sought. And I’ll bet that the ATF men who blew the whistle will be lucky to be employed in a couple more months.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey ILLInio

    Just jail those crooks along with holder and obummer.

  • Hugh

    @ Dennis

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/author/william-kristol

    very different spellings

  • Big Daddy

    When will the congress smell the roses and start impeachment procedings against this obummer he’s is destroying this country.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Liberty

      Most of the self-serving hacks in congress are in on the plans designed by the NWO crowd. My bet is this Fast and Furious Fiasco was conceived and put in place at the highest levels of the U.S. gov’t. Were we to ever really know all the facts, we might determine some of those in the U.N. were involved in the plan to create propaganda and false statistics to help impose gun control on U.S. citizens. Wonder if the mayor of New York also had a hand in this?

      • 45caliber

        Liberty:

        You are probably right.

        • Carlucci

          I agree. Every piece of destructive “legislation” that comes down the pike has Fedzilla’s grimy claws all over it. Every time I hear something like this, I think “Cher-chez le Feds”.

    • steve in AZ

      Don’t know when impeachment proceedings might begin against Obama, but we know when it WON’T happen. It won’t happen when such proceedings don’t stand a chance of success. The necessary votes aren’t there in the Senate. Worse still, there is no certainty that the votes necessary from the Rep. side of the aisle in either house. Also, perhaps our congressmen feel that Joe Biden might be even worse than Obama.

      Pretty sure Biden was at least born in the States, however. No matter their feelings on Obama’s nation of origin, hardly anyone is certain of it.

  • Dave Langdon

    As with the Clinton Administration the lies start at the top and those that get paid to side with them do not want to lose their jobs. how can we prosecute our armed forces for war crimes when our justice dept will not prosecute the misdeeds of those in office

  • PatrioTom

    As American citizens, we must demand a “Fast and Furious” resignation from Holder and the immediate impeachment of the usurper in cheif. Holder, the leftist SOB, should have been removed, disbarred and imprisoned with the losers that he protected for dropping the new black panther voter intimidation case in Philly. BHO made it very clear that he, Hillary and the DOJ are working “under the radar” to strip us of our 2nd amendment rights via a UN gun ban. I can assure you that the scam, operation Fast & Furious had everything to do with this “under the radar” work that BHO mentioned. Buck oFama and his band of marxists!!!

  • PaulS

    Question: If these people are as stupid as they appear to be, how do they find their way home after work.
    Answer: They are not stupid…they are simply camouflaging treason as stupidity.

    This was a deliberate plan to provide weapons to Mexican druggies in order:
    1…To damage the gun freedoms in AZ
    2…To further erode border security as part of the North American Union program.
    3…To erode Mexican government control over Mexico.

    • Cawmun Cents

      You left out one other reason.So the gubment can get their percentage check by providing protection of the drug mules,from vigilantes and authorities.Now the mules have superior fire power to nearly everyone.That way when people get tired of their country be assaulted by drug runners and murderers,they can thank Uncle Scam for providing the intruders with over-powering firepower.But they will still not be able to stop it.Therefore the gubment still gets their cut.A slice of the pie so you can feel important too….considering they use your tax dollars to fund both the cartels and the opposing law enforcement agencies.They use you to stay rich…and nothing much gets done or changes,except peoples lives are ruined or taken in the process.Kind of neat how they are more and more a criminal enterprise every day,and yet you still fund them,huh?Nice to know that your tax dollars will be spent for the training,deployment,equipping,logistics,supplying,murder,and funeral expenses of both mule and border agent.As Yakov Smirnoff used to say,”What a country!”.-CC.

      • slickporsche

        Save your breath Cawmun, as most do not get it. Wait till 2012 we’ll vote em out! hahahahahahaha Yeah right!

    • Mikey V.

      Exactly. A false flag operation from the get-go. Mexican tin horn comes here and blames US for “flooding” his country with arms. Leftist media and Obamunists immediately declare we must re-instate so-called assault weapon ban. But wait. The whole 90% figure turns out to be a lie. Leftists are caught with hand in the gun-ban cookie jar. Most of the Mexican arms are full auto military stuff smuggled in from other places, not from the US civilian market. Hmmm. The Obamunists are in a jam. Solution, create a scenario to fit their allegations. US Govt. will flood Mexico with arms “smuggled” (under their auspices) from US dealers. But it all goes sideways. Dealers cry foul. Honest ATF agents cry foul. OOOPS. Eric “The Red” Holder and his boss are in a pickle now! The spin is a law enforcement effort gone wrong. Melson falls on his sword. But wait. All these arms deals cannot produce a lawful conviction in court. No case can be built, per the testimony heard so far. So why did they do it? To create the “flood” of arms that they claim is flowing from US civil market. See, we need assault weapon ban and multiple sale checks and close the alleged gun show loop hole. A gun banner’s wet dream. Unfortunately (for them), they got caught.

      • Antonio

        summed it all up in just one short paragraph.

      • 45caliber

        Mikey:

        You are right on the money.

      • 45caliber

        Mikey:

        There are, however, guns that get to the cartels from the US other than these. Those were the military weapons provided by the government to the Mexican army that were then sold by several Mexicans to the cartels. So – yes, they do have guns from the US. They just don’t come from the civilian markets.

        Actually, most of the original guns that were found that came from the civilian markets were actually collected from Mexican families who had acquired one to protect their families from the cartels. But such guns are illegal there …

      • Dan az

        common sense,Now there’s a thought!

      • always right

        Why do you think blackbarry started the wars in Libya and Yemen? I mean, Bosnia worked to get the get billzebubba playing the whoremonica of the front page of the news. If it worked for the other perpetual puerile,petulent pubescent, why not this one? If you are on the crosshairs of the media, get some U.S. Service men and women killed in a far away land where we have no business being, to help out muslims.

  • http://ByGeorge By George

    Remember Brian Terry!

    Quite apart from Obama’s (peace be upon him) impeachable offense of starting a war without congressional approval is the illegal, stupid, criminal, asinine alleged sting operation conducted by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, (ATF) under the auspices of Janet Napolitano’s Dept. of Homeland Security, apparently with her approval and now being protected by Eric Holder and the DOJ. The crap on this one is going to stick because no one in the hierarchy of the Federal Governments chain of command can claim that this amateurish scheme was hatched by professional operatives and not ordered by elite incompetents. Field Agents of the ATF warned of the consequences of this illegal operation but were, as is usual when elites know best, transferred, threatened or beat down to achieve their silence. The consequences, intended or not, was the death by murder of Border Patrol Officer Brian Terry, at the hands of Mexican Drug Cartel mercenaries into whose hands the ATF provided weapons that killed him were placed.

    I can see the panic and fear in ATF, DOJ and DHS now as Republican Congressman Darrell Issa of California is applying the screws to the lying, sniveling, finger-pointing incompetents who are supposed to run the Agencies. What is implied but not stated, yet, is that this gun providing sting operation to Mexican criminals, so they could allegedly trace the flow of weapons from American gun shows and illegal gun dealers to the cartels and thus close up those outlets that so freely arms the drug organizations, had a primary, more sinister motive. If you recall, the Chief Office Holder made a public speech last year, in an attempt to ramp up his anti- 2nd Amendment gun control measures and eliminate our rights to self-defense by stating as a fact that it was American guns flowing south arming those dangerous cartels. He didn’t have any evidence for that statement so it had to be manufactured for him through his elite cronies. This whole tawdry business was nothing more then an attempt by Obama (peace be upon him) to disarm America. And don’t forget the back door either with that hack Hillary and the UN.

    The ATF is led by a temporary acting director, Kenneth Melson, a recess appointee by the Chief Office Holder, who is totally without law enforcement experience meaning, he has never been schooled in what one can and cannot do according to the rules and I mean the US Constitution. Melson was briefed weekly on the status of the operation and even watched gun sales and transfers in real time on hidden cameras in cooperating gun dealers facilities.

    Apparently, Brian Terry wasn’t the first officer killed by weapons obtained through this sting operation. In February of this year, ICE Agent Jamie Zapata was shot to death by an ATF supplied weapon in Mexico City..

    And yet, there is still honor among Federal Police Officers. Three ATF agents became whistleblowers. One, Special Agent Dodson, had this to say: “I was involved in this operation, we monitored as they purchased hand guns, AK-47 variants, and .50 caliber rifles almost daily. Rather than contradict any enforcement actions, we took notes, we recorded observations, we tracked movements of these individuals for a short time after their purchases, but nothing more. Knowing all the while, just days after these purchases, the guns that we saw these individuals buy would begin turning up at crime scenes in the United States and Mexico, we still did nothing, allowing loads of weapons that we knew to be destined for criminals, this was the plan. It was so mandated.” Remember Brian Terry!

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Liberty

      By George, your comments are all on target (can we still legally use that phrase?), one has to wonder how many of the Kool Aid drinkers will actually connect the dots as to who all the players are/were in this gov’t created fiasco? Their illegal plans will cause an increase in guns and ammo sales by those who have the intelligence to connect the dots. My guess is Hillary and her cronies in the U.N. were somehow involved, and the dictator in chief will use his usual style of lying and deniabilty. I think one could also surmise “Spooky Dude” was somewhere in the background on this plan also.

      • Antonio

        You know you have a point. The U.N. is probably behind all this mess, and i also bet you that the U.N. plays a big part in smuggling weapons straight to Mexico.
        As far as the “kool aid drinkers connecting dots” i would forget that because the average person doesnt know anything about this. They only know what the news informs them of and thats it.

      • 45caliber

        The entire plan has nothing to do with the cartels or stopping crime in Mexico. It was designed to justify the government shutting down gun shows and dealers in border states.

        • independent thinker

          Not just the border states. Although it would start there it would be extended to the whole US.

          • 45caliber

            I agree. But it would probably take another ten years or so. First they would want to round up all the guns from citizens in the border states to “keep them from selling to the cartels”. Then they wait five years or so and say, “See? The border states really didn’t need their guns so you don’t either.”

    • Dan az

      By George I think you got it!
      That’s pretty much what I said above but you put it so well any one could understand it.To this day they know that the trails that the illegals are using are being protected from the hills with 50 cal. barrets and sat phones,but still do nothing about it except put up signs warning people from this side not to go in their now territory that we gave them.Yet what has been done is to sue Arizona to stop trying to catch them.How dare they!Its our job!If we go out and take out the snipers then we get the jail time.Sounds like a plan to me.NOT!

  • 403 Forbidden

    I think I know where OFF got its inspiration: this sounds a lot like the DEA’s strategy in the 1980′s concerning Columbian cocaine. When they caught a major smuggler, they’d let him go for another 18 months or so on condition that he give up all of his suppliers and wholesalers during the interim. With the DEA running interference (both from other LEAs and other gangs) for shipments, smugglers became impossibly wealthy and got immunity into the bargain, while uncountable tons of coke reached our shores and were used to bolster DEA calls for more punitive laws (read: less liberty for you, me and our doctors) and, just coincidentally, huge increases in its own budget.

    It helped that many Wall Street traders and government officials loved the stuff – including one recent President, who was in the arms of Sweet Cousin Cocaine pretty much during his entire tenure, according to ex-Secret Service agents. When someone discovered that you could cook the stuff with sodium bicarbonate and make crack, making an easily frangible, affordable alternative for the poor, the LE ‘crackdown’ began in earnest.

    For those of you who still cling to the idea of the rule of law, I regret to inform you that it disappeared long ago from the USA. We are at the stage of empire where the legality of an action depends almost entirely upon who performs it rather than any passage in the first or second set of books. Lavrenti Beria, Cardinal Richeliu, and the emperor Tiberius would be quite comfortable in what was once our Republic. Hold onto your guns, you’ll need them.

    • Antonio

      I agree with you, when I was in Colombia I saw a lot of that. If you were poor or nobody special and were caught breaking the law you really got in some trouble. If you were rich, government oficial, or the kid of someone special nothing ever happened to them. In fack, most police officers were basically affraid to arrest certain people because you might have lost your jod if you arrested so and so kid or whoever. Well i am starting to see that here in the USA today. It’s ok for some to break laws but not ok fot others. You go to prison for life when killing someone for robbing you. The police can kick in your door and shoot you 60 times only cause they “thought” you had drugs. Yes sir, i am keeping my guns and i am on your side.

    • Cawmun Cents

      I agree with what you said.Unfortunately,most of those who comprehend are forced to deal with regulations which curtail their ability to react(a good reason for all those legislators you support the livelyhoods of,down at the Capitol).Yes..you are the unwilling participant in an experiment.A rat whose time it has come to find the cheese.Let me explain.As an American citizen,you are forced by regulation to purchase license,and keep current fees for said license on fully automatic firearms.You must pay a”fine,or tariff”to own a magnificent weapon of your choice.Then,you come to find out that if you were a drug runner for a foreign cartel,you could obtain the exact same weapons cheaply and without licensing issues,from the same government that the American citizen has to be stiffly regulated from.Furthermore,you realize that your tax dollars are in fact funding the arming and protection of the foreign drug cartel members,even as you have to obtain special permission via licensing,to posess that which is cheaply sold to a foreign national.Does that make any sense to any of you who are being taxed by the current Federal Government?Hmmmm….why would the citizens not go on a major fact finding mission,to determine the reasoning of such a senseless set of circumstances?Or are they forced to eat the cheese to get out of the trap?One never truly knows the motive of the experimentor…but since you are all merely rats in a cage….who cares?-CC.

    • 45caliber

      I heard of a case in LA about thirty years ago or so. A big heroin dealer was actually the owner of a morphine plant. They would send an empty truck to Mexico once a week of “morphine” to cover the real issue of the material as heroin on the streets. Two LA detectives set the dealer up and caught him with about 10 kilos of it he was moving to street dealers. At the end of the trial the two detectives went to prison for about 20 years each for “framing” the dealer.

  • exbuckeye35

    Im almost afraid to ask:
    Where is that ‘guy on the grassy knoll’ when you need him most?

    • Oregon Bob

      The grassy knoll shooter is in prison. James Files shot JFK with a Remington single shot bolt action pistol. YouTube ‘JFK assassination’

  • Raggs

    It’s going to be really interesting to see how obama and his thugs lie-out of this one… We are in an illegal war with Libya and congress does nothing about it!… Why should we expect congress to do anything about obama the gun runner?

    Boeing is being sued by obama’s unions because they created jobs in SC.
    Congress does nothing!!!
    obama creates an unconsititutional death care law and congress does nothing!!!!

    I say the hell with ALL of them!

  • don

    every lawabiding gunowner in america needs to get out and vote in 2012 to get the president and all the jokers in congress out of office. seems every election a majority of citizens do not vote looking at the numbers. keep this up and we’re going to lose more than we already have lost. we need a totally new congress and president with the concerns of the people first instead of big money. in the end a lot of big money will lose too.

    • slickporsche

      Oh come on Don! VOte for what? 6 of one half dozen the other. Forget voting. We are past the simple minded idea. That is what they want us to do and believe in, so they can take it all from us.

  • JC

    Symptoms of a very sick administration working hard to destroy America:

    Page 27: [Special Agent John Dodson, the original whistle blower]

    “Well, every time we voiced concerns…But every day being out here watching a guy go into the same gun store buying another 15 or 20 AK-47s or variants or . . . five or ten Draco pistols or FN Five-seveNs . . . guys that don’t have a job, and he is walking in here spending $27,000 for three Barrett .50 calibers …and you are sitting there every day and you can’t do anything…”

    Page 38: [Dodson, speaking about ATF supervisors in Phoenix and their disregard for lives lost due to Fast & Furious]

    “[T]here was a prevailing attitude amongst the group and outside of the group in the ATF chain of command… I was having a conversation with Special Agent [L] about the case in which the conversation ended with me asking her are you prepared to go to a border agent’s funeral over this… because that’s going to happen. And the sentiment that was given back to me by both her, the group supervisor, was that…if you are going to make an omelette [sic], you need to scramble some eggs.”
    ___________________________________________________________________

    And if there were any doubt about what they were doing, ATF agent John Dodson, testifying before Congress last week, had this to say: “Allowing loads of weapons that we knew to be destined for criminals, this was the plan. It was so mandated.”
    ___________________________________________________________________

    Did you know that when ATF field agents complained about how dangerous the idea of allowing guns to walk into Mexico was, one supervisor wrote in an email “if you don’t think this is fun, you are in the wrong line of work, period!”

    • JeffH

      JC, this just tells me how much disregard for the rule of law and human life that some of these “sickos” have. These people really are as sick as Jared Loughner when you think about it.

      • JC

        That’s a given Jeff. They are evil and they are in power.
        If we want to save our nation…well, reasoned debate seems to be behind us now…so, now what?

        • Dan az

          The fourth box!

        • April

          This is why we have the Declaration of Independence……..That to secure these rights,Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED,-That whenever any Form of Government become destructive of those ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, …..But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty to throw off such Governments, and to provide new guards for their future security

    • James

      JC, Looked at objectively, doesn’t it appear that Eric Holder is just arming our southern enemies? In the past 20 years, no pesident has defended our southern border. He should pile up gold ingots and see if they’re dumb enough to take them.

  • lonetrader

    Ask yourself these questions. Why doesn’t the media report on the weapons coming into the USA from Mexico. IE, rocket launchers, fully automatic weapons, grenades, RPG’s etc. WHY. WHY do we have 26,000 troops in South Korea and zero on our border? Why do we have troops in Germany? Why do we have troops in Japan? If they wanted the import of drugs stopped from Mexico, it would be stopped. It would be very simple to secure our borders. Why hasn’t Congress DEMANDED for Holder’s resignation and placed him under arrest? Answer. They are all on the same team putting on a show for us about the debt ceiling or some other fiasco, meanwhile screwing us in the butt. You all better wake up about Romney. He is a globolist and wants your weapons so he can rule. He is an anti constitutionalist. I think the best man for the job of President is the Governor of Texas. His record stands proven that he does know what he is doing and improved his economy while Obama and all the others have destroyed all the other States.

    • 45caliber

      I live in Texas. The only way I’d vote for Rick Perry for President is if the final decision comes down to him and Oblama. He isn’t smart enough to be President and I don’t think he’d make a good one.

      • meteorlady

        I too live here and think he’s a very accomplished “politician”. The legislature has been very business friendly in this state and I’m happy that our economy has been running along, but he has done some things that I don’t like at all. Trying to force vaccinations, and vetoing a law that would have the law that would make it illegal to text while driving. He does all the right things to get publicity, but he’s not Presidential material. Though I would vote for him if it’s him or Obama.

        • Master Gunny

          With respects Ma’am I would vote for Skippy the wonder-cow rather than Obama. Obama came into office ashamed of America, I wasn’t then but I am now. To think that the voters could put this fraud in the White House literally turns my stomach.

          • Dan az

            Same here gunny.
            Did anyone notice the lack of progs and libs today?

          • JeffH

            Dan az, kind of nice isn’t it? :)

          • Dan az

            Jeff
            To say the least.Refreshing!

        • Don

          Vote for Palin,

        • Carlucci

          I wouldn’t vote for either one of them (Perry or Ovomit). This “lesser of the two evils” ideology is a big reason why we are in the mess we’re in. If that mindset keeps up, you can expect more of the same politics as usual, and worse…

        • http://teamlaw.org Jazzabelle

          Oh Please. Perry is a statist NWO hack. No way am I voting for him. If it’s him or Barry, I’ll write someone in. Serious. No way am I lending legitimacy to an election between those two!

  • 45caliber

    This program was never set up to track these guns or to aid in stopping the cartels as stated. It was set up to “prove” the need to shut down gun shows and – probably – shut down all gun shops in the border states. The idea was to “find” some guns that had been purchased at gun shows and then insist on TV that these needed to be shut down because dealers were selling to known gun runners for the cartels.

    Unfortunately for the ones who came up with this idea, the ATF people in AZ didn’t go along with the plan.

    To bureaucrats, the possibility of someone being killed isn’t a problem – after all, that person will be a LONG way from them and certainly not anyone they know. So, of course, such a thing doesn’t matter.

  • meteorlady

    Good argument for gun control yes? How convenient for Obama and Hillary.

  • Bruce Haskin,Sr.

    I have no desire to continue the political commentary, but we had better find someone who can effectively oppose Obama in 2012 and find them quickly.
    Obama’s record in Illinois demonstrates his antagonism to 2nd Amendment. So what is going on here? I believe this is a Black Op being being presented as a Gray Op. Remember the Gulf of Tonkin incident that precipitated our intervention in Vietnam? Remember the Iran-Contras Op? Since we are a representative democracy, presidents invent situations to promote their private agendas. The media incorrectly reported a very high number of US guns in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels. The pro-gun lobby exposed this lie. The overwhelming number of the weapons in the hands of Mexican cartels are fully automatic (read: sub-machine guns,Class III weapons)not semiautomatics. Although we as US citizens can own fully automatic weapons, there is a tax to be paid and paperwork to be filled out for EACH WEAPON PURCHASED. Since this is the case, mass purchases, although I suppose not impossible, are extremely improbable and stupid since the paperwork exposes to the Federal Govt. each person making such a purchase. Therefore the likely source for these weapons is not the US even though this was widely reported in our media. What is Obama to turn the media’s lies into the “truth”? Fast and Furious.

    • Cawmun Cents

      The only Fast and Furious thing around our halls of government is the knee-jerk,reactionary(“I’ll come up with a plan that’ll be both stupid and cause someone to be killed”)executive idiocy,perpetrated by the postions of power in the government.But let us elect these harridans to office again to cause more damge to the individuals rights,or so the leftist argument goes.-CC.

  • Dan az

    Why would they use the name Fast and Furious? Would it be,Get as many guns over there so we can show our fury on the border states? I think just because we have past laws so everyone could carry concealed, he is just furious that he cant trump our laws.I think that every person that died over this false flag should sue the very persons that approved it personally.

    • 45caliber

      I personally believe that the families of the deceased should also file murder charges against everyone who approved and supported this program – all the way to the President if necessary.

  • ONTIME

    My sincere thanks to Issa and Grassley for stepping up to the plate in this OFF scam that cost American lives and if all goes well will be proven to had the okay from the WH and the AG..it’s clled treason.

    The part of this that seems to escape purview was that supplying the arms in such a manner was criminally negligent and initiated by scheming politicians and that it was going to be used to make the gun laws look to be ineffective by involving legal American gun dealers and retailers to take a fall with the idea that the deal was said to be legitimate by the Feds, then they would snake bite these legal people and claim they had violated the gun laws. The frigging BATF and this admninstration are those most dispicable people ever to work in government, they are nothing more than agenda driven communist freaks running their agenda….

    • Dan az

      HEAR HEAR!

  • Dan az

    I say we give the whistle blowers a medal for standing up to the feds!
    Thank you I think a promotion is in order!

    • 45caliber

      I agree, Dan. But I’ll bet that they will be lucky to be employed this time next year. Those in Washington take it as an act of disloyalty if someone points out that they broke the laws themselves and they like revenge.

      • Dan az

        I can see it now,whistle blower takes own life after jumping from a six story window with two bullets to the head then ran over by a bus while found rapped up in a rug and found at a DC park.
        You mean that kinda revenge?Nah that kinda stuff only happened when clinton was in office.

        • 45caliber

          Dan:

          But they do have the same helpers Clinton had when he was in office.

  • JeffH

    Wikileaks had released copies of US “diplomatic cables” which had shown that the cartels obtained much of their weaponry from Central American arsenals. Mexico City newspaper La Jornada publicized the cables contents…”Claims by Mexican and US officials that upwards of 90% of illegal recovered weapons can be traced back to the US is biased on an incomplete survey of confiscated weapons…In point of fact…we really have no way of verifying these numbers.”

    Another cable publisized by La Jornada revealed that 90% of the drug cartels’ “heavey armament” originates in Central America and enters Mexico through Guatemala.

    This, of course, blows a hole in the oft refuted numbers of the 80%+ reported by the MSM, Feinstein and Hillary.

    Make no mistake, this was an agenda ridden anti-gun program.

    • JC

      You bet it is!

      Hey OBAMA! How’s that “under the radar thing workin out for ya?”
      Basterd!

    • Dan az

      Hey guys
      Food for thought,When dealing with foreign countries do you think that obumer wouldn’t know what was in play?

    • independent thinker

      “…”Claims by Mexican and US officials that upwards of 90% of illegal recovered weapons can be traced back to the US is biased on an incomplete survey of confiscated weapons”

      The 90% figure is correct if you know what it actualy refers to. It refers to the guns actualy submitted for tracing at some point in time. What it does NOT refer to is an accurate % of all guns seized in Mexico because the majority of the seized weapons were never submitted for tracing.

  • ROY S. MALLMANN II

    Just exactly when are we going to return to the rule of law in this country? Anybody that doesn’t think that Obama and his crooked Attorney General, weren’t involved in every step of this is either ignorant or a liberal Democrat or both. To the Brady Group “We are working on gun control issues under the radar”.

  • JeffH

    The end justifies the means…sounds so familiar.

    If the American people can be convinced that gun store sales are fueling the murderous cartels in Mexico and that the “favorite weapons” of your run of the mill Mexican cartel is available to law abiding citizens at those gun stores, then you can claim that “peaceable” Americans shouldn’t be able to buy those kinds of firearms.

    What logic? We sacrifice our freedom to force Mexican criminals to stop murdering their people and selling drugs to ours.

    This reminds me of the logic behind the ban on “Saturday night specials”, “assault weapons” and the “gun show loopholes”. For every manufactured action, there is always a manufactured solution.

    The inescapable truth is what gun control is always about…money and power to those in government who want to disarm you.

    Show your support to Darrell Issa in this matter…
    http://issa.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=597&Itemid=73

    • Dan az

      Good one Little bro
      I sent him a little note from me.
      I’m glad that you have chosen the right side of the ATF scandal and I give my support to you and those to do what justice is blind in doing.The fact that Oboma will deny any knowing of this amazes me to know end.Is it not a fact that when dealing with foreign countries he has the sole responsibility of that action?The fact that home land security runs point on the decisions of FBI ATF And others does it not also make them just as guilty?Along with Holder refusing to take the blame with his failed attack on our 2nd amendment rights to blame the very people that tried to warn them of this major mistake.This needs to go all the way to where the buck stops not just the patsy they have to fall on his sword for the good of the administration.I hope you see my concern and bring justice to the deaths of so many. thank you for your time.

      • Dan az

        Hey I wounder if my picture gets included in the note?Ya think? :)

        • JeffH

          Get some 8-1/2 X 11 with your personal letterhead on it…voila!

        • Raggs

          Who’s the clown with the American flag in the background?

          • JeffH

            Raggs, c’mon…it’s Alfred E. Obama… :)

          • Raggs

            Opps.. well even I enjoy good ole Alfred, but I would not give oblama the same respect… So I had to ask.

          • Raggs

            Well at least Alfred E Nueman is American made!

      • JeffH

        Brother Dan az, here is a copy of my letter to Issa and Grassley:

        Honorable U.S. Rep. Darrell Issa and U.S. Sen. Chuck Grassley,

        I applaudde and support yourself and U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley in your efforts to uncover and expose the truth and those responsible for the failed Project Gunrunner’s “Fast and Furious” debacle. This investigation is crucial in the fight to protect our Second Amendment rights. The attempted cover up by this administration and AG Eric Holder is nothing more than an arrogant dismissal of Congress’ congressional role.
        I believe it proper to demand the resignation of AG Eric Holder and all others involved.

        Please continue in your leadership role in this matter. The rule of law, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights have become clouded by our representatives and administrations and it is important to reaffirm their importance and regain the trust in government to the American people.

        Thank you,

        Grassley’s contact link:
        http://grassley.senate.gov/contact.cfm

        • Dan az

          Wow know wonder mom always liked you best.

          • JeffH

            She always said I you had your father’s “buck teeth”. At least we have her ears… :( :)

  • DaveH

    Okay, let’s make some sense of the Operation Fast and Furious. The goal was to track the guns to a major cartel. So the ATF would “monitor” sales to suspicious individuals, but if they knew they were “suspicious”, why not just track them without them being allowed to buy the guns?
    It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

    • JeffH

      A typical government program…without any logic.

    • 45caliber

      What you quoted is just their excuse – not the reason they wanted the guns sold and carried south. If you remember, when the agent was killed, the first comment heard was, “He was killed with a gun purchased in the US. This proves that we need to stop selling guns at gun shows and stop gun dealers from selling to questionable persons.” For about three days the MSM pushed this – and then the real story started coming out. And when it did, the MSM suddenly found other more important stories to report about.

  • Raggs

    Isn’t this what happens when a ruler has too much power?

    • Dan az

      Nah that would be do as I say not as I do.

      • Raggs

        Oh yeah… thats one of them things where I have to buy a chinese light bulb because the American made light bulbs aren’t good enough.

        Boy what the hell would I do if I only had a brain?

  • Rob

    Obama and Schumer where behind this all the way. I hope murder charges are brought up against all the scumbags who put this dirty plot togeather. And I am sure BO has his shredder working overtime.

    • Dan az

      I have a shredder that he can use as long as he jumps in.

    • Cawmun Cents

      The Wizard(Obama)and the Scarecrow(Schumer)?Behind all these efforts to undermine your rights?Tell me it isnt true!I wonder what the Wicked Witch of the Left(Pelosi)or the Tin Man(Reid),would have to say about that Dorothy?Pay no attention to the bills behind the curtain……-CC.

  • Raggs

    I KNOW!!!! IT”S BUSHES FAULT!!!!!

  • Raggs

    Well, I have to admit I forgot something….

    oblaba is currently in process of “drawing” down the troops.. ( only in afgan ).. you need to disregard the war in Libya at this point. ( oh what war )

    ?????? well do ya think that may have something to do with the 12 election cycle come nigh?..

    OK so how many of the braindead welfare suckers will this draw in? unions added….

    • 45caliber

      Raggs:

      I doubt very seriously that these soldiers will still be in the country when election time rolls around. About 90% of the military votes conservative. Right now NO absentee ballots (including the military) are counted unless the votes are very close and there is a challenge. (If you remember when Al Gore challenged the vote in FL he tried to insist that NO absentee vote would be counted, particularly military.) I don’t believe the Dems would want these people in the US so they could vote in the fall election next year. It might swing the vote the wrong way.

      • Raggs

        So the ten dollar question is.

        Does this excuse of a president take the fall from the military to appease his extreme left?

        This sorry son of a bitch is shuffling the deck and dealing the cards!
        A promise of a Christmas at home for the troops ( to his favor )is nothing short of a VERY political gain.

  • Raggs

    I cannot type this loud enough… F-obama!

  • Montie R

    We have lost our country to the socialists. We no longer have ANY liberty except what they allow. We have NO justice except what they allow. We no longer have any real news, just the leftist blather that the networks produce. NONE of our laws are being enforced except the ones that further the demise of America. We have a dictatorship that the leader changes every 4 to 8 years. The government that our forefathers had designed is NO more. The government has STOLEN our country for their benefit and to HELL with the American people.

  • chuckb

    the following is one example of the people making the laws of our country:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM1QtyZvn04

  • Charles

    What were they thinking? Another step on the road to the new world order. The Justice Dept. has been sold to the higest bidder. they should all be going to jail.

    • Raggs

      Nah, hell no they figure it’s easier to rid themselves of the people that disagree…. Maybe Hitler had the same idea?

  • Raggs

    Teleprompter alert! ( watch your head joe biden you may mess up that donald trump cotton candy hair-do ). For further directions / instructions see nancy ( botox or is that spelled buttox? ) pelosi. ( whatever you two decide to do is private ) Well unless you use twitter with a weiner. For an erection lasting longer than… well you know, you have seen the commercial… With Nancy? yikes.
    Ok back to the teleporter, Since NAZA is no longer in the et mode we have to find a way to spend all of the billions of dollars that we give away for them there out of space programs. I still don’t understand how you find the room to put all of it… Wuzn’t we talk’n about a telephone?… I got one of them, mine has a bunch of buttons on it and the damm thing ligths up if you push one-of-um.
    Back to the teleprompt thing, too many buttons pushed.

  • http://aol Mike

    So when will an idependent investigation and a “special Prosecutor” be appointed? It is obvious that felonies have been commited by Govt. officials. The knowledge and involvement of the POTUS and his AG in FAF should be determined by sworn testimony and depositions. Prosecute ALL who are involved.

  • Spyder Dalton

    If you really want to see how bad it’s getting the media should investigate Los Angeles LAPD “gun squad”
    and how they are systematically shutting down gun shops in and around Los Angeles by enacted obscure
    vague gun laws and charging other wise law abiding citizens with felony crimes. It is out of control here and no mention of it on the news. While gangs roam free with illegal weapons good citizens homes are being raided in the middle of the night by swat teams for minor violations that when taken to court are dismissed.
    Why isn’t the media covering this?

  • Joe

    People,COMMUNISM,pure and simple,under the guise of LIBERLISM.
    Why are’nt you people paying attention as to whats going on in this nation???
    Are you so wrapped up in your own world that you cannot see this govt.becoming a controlling govt?
    This did not happen just last night .
    Why have you not contacted your Reps.?? Or , are you the kind of person that lets someone else do things for you,then complain when its not like you wanted??Are you that useless??

    Your police force is not for you,they would rather arrest you,makes it look good.
    The police forces have way to much authority over the people,therefore a “Police state”. and its all over America!!

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