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The False Flag Gun Grab

July 30, 2012 by  

The False Flag Gun Grab

With the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty negotiations ongoing (and going badly for the gun grabbers and elite power brokers), a game-changer was needed. It came in the form of James Holmes, “The Joker” who allegedly shot up a Colorado movie theater July 20.

Holmes is almost certainly a patsy — a term used to describe those used by government agents to pull off their hits or staged false flag events. There are just too many questionable aspects to the whole story — and Holmes himself — for the incident to have gone down as depicted by government authorities.

The shooting has given President Barack Obama the cover he needs to both go after guns and sign the treaty. He was receiving a lot of pressure from his American gun-grabbing constituency to sign the treaty. But he was also receiving a lot of pushback from Congress — no doubt pressured by the powerful and much-feared National Rifle Association lobby — and a growing number of Americans concerned about Obama’s gun-grabbing proclivities.

Here’s what we know: Holmes was operating under a government grant that paid him $26,000 per year to work in the study of neurosciences. He was a medical student seeking a Ph.D. at the University of Colorado. Several agencies of the U.S. government have long funded neuroscience research.

For more than 20 years, beginning in the 1950s, the CIA funded a project called MK-Ultra. The research for those mind-control experiments was undertaken at 80 institutions, including 44 colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons and pharmaceutical companies. This program came to light during the Senate’s Church Committee hearing and the Presidential Rockefeller Commission in the 1970s.

While that program was supposedly suspended in the 1970s, CIA whistleblowers, including 14-year veteran CIA agent Victor Marchetti, have stated in various interviews that the agency routinely conducts disinformation campaigns and that CIA mind-control research continued. In a 1977 interview, Marchetti specifically called the CIA claim that MK-ULTRA was abandoned a “cover story.”

In MK-Ultra, researchers used mind-altering drugs, hypnosis and other methods on test subjects. Many people believe that Robert Kennedy assassin Sirhan Sirhan, Virginia Tech shooter Seung-Hui Cho, Arizona shooter Jared Lee Loughner and Jim Jones and the Jonestown cult were part of CIA MK-Ultra operations.

In fact, Holmes is behaving much like Sirhan did after shooting Kennedy. He’s telling guards he has no memory of the shooting and doesn’t understand why he’s in jail. During his court appearance, he behaved oddly, much like someone under the influence of drugs.

Holmes amassed an arsenal of weapons, costing as much as $20,000 by some estimates, even though his only known source of income was the grant. He also apparently was trained in the use of explosives. His apartment was booby-trapped with devices that police called “sophisticated” flammable devices like none they had ever seen.

Eyewitnesses claim Holmes had help. Various news agencies quote witnesses as saying someone opened the emergency door for him and that at least two people were throwing tear gas grenades in the theater. A second gas mask and bloody knife were found on ground at the end of a blood trail on the far end of the theater from where Holmes was arrested. This indicates an accomplice who may have been injured or taken an injured hostage with him. Police say Holmes bought a ticket and propped open the emergency door himself.

Holmes calmly walked through the crowd firing his shotgun, then his Glock, then his rifle. After the shooting, he surrendered to police and told them about the booby traps in his apartment.

The assault was obviously well planned and well financed. But Holmes was described by those who know him as shy and introverted and incapable of pulling off such an attack.

The New York Times reported:

“There was no way I thought he could have the capacity to commit an atrocity like this,” said [Billy] Kromka, who is from Aurora. Mr. Kromka said that Mr. Holmes’s “disposition was a little off” and that he could be socially awkward, one of the quieter people in the lab. He spent much of his time immersed in his computer, often participating in role-playing online games.

Beyond a traffic ticket, Holmes had no criminal history. In fact, it appears he has no history at all. Google searches reveal nothing about him. This is highly unusual in today’s society where personal privacy is nonexistent.

And then there’s the curious incident of the disappearing FBI warning about a possible movie theater shooting issued May 17 but pulled from Federal websites when bloggers brought attention to it.

Law enforcement also claims Holmes sent a package to a psychiatrist that outlined his plans. But stories about that are being changed faster than a baby’s diaper: It sat on a dock; it sat in a mail room; it didn’t get there until Monday.

The bodies had not even been removed from the theater before New York City nanny Mayor Michael Bloomberg was calling for stronger gun-control laws and encouraging police officers to go on strike until gun laws were passed. Of course, neither strong gun laws nor police saved movie-shooting victims.

Aurora, Colo., has some of its State’s most stringent gun laws:

  • “Dangerous weapons” including firearms prohibited.
  • Revocation of license for furnishing a firearm to a minor or someone under the influence.
  • Window displays cannot include firearms with barrels less than 12 inches long.
  • Unlawful to carry concealed “dangerous weapon.”
  • Unlawful to discharge firearms, unless by law enforcement on duty or on shooting range.
  • Unlawful to possess firearm while under the influence of intoxicant.
  • Unlawful to have loaded firearm in motor vehicle.
  • Unlawful for a juvenile to possess a firearm.

And, of course, all the explosives Holmes had planted in his apartment were illegal.

The theater had a no-guns policy, ensuring that the shooter would be able to carry out his attack unmolested. The police who Bloomberg wants to be the citizen’s only defense sat outside assessing the situation and waiting on gas masks while shots were heard from inside.

The Aurora theater shooting has all the marks of a false flag operation designed to shred the 2nd Amendment and give impetus to the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty, which Obama has said he wants to sign. Just like Operation Fast and Furious, it’s a concerted effort by the elites to instigate violence against innocent people to further their goal of disarming Americans.

And this government and others throughout history have used false flag events to advance their agendas. Among them the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Building, 9/11 and the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

The FBI is known to create terrorists so it can swoop in to save the day. And governments have lied to their subjects from the beginning of time.

More and more, it looks like the American people are once again victims of their own terrorist government.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • DaveH

    For the inevitable denial from board Progressives:
    http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/FoxNewsObamaAntiGun122811.html

    • FreedomFighter

      “The Aurora theater shooting has all the marks of a false flag operation designed to shred the 2nd Amendment and give impetus to the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty, which Obama has said he wants to sign. Just like Operation Fast and Furious, it’s a concerted effort by the elites to instigate violence against innocent people to further their goal of disarming Americans.”

      This “Joker Operation” such a blatant attempt, so obvious, its a fill in the blanks cookie cutter operation. A desperate attempt, by the anti-American, anti-constitution, freedom hating, liberty loathing leftest usurpers and the power mad elites to further subdue and subjecate the American people and bring us into the New World Order, then enslavement.

      The right to bear arms is provides the ability and means to fight tyrants, it was not written to protect the hunt for rabbits or deer.

      The enemy has shown themselves…

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • charlene

        i think your right. they have been trying hard and harder to get gun laws past. when they wont something they help it along.remember olk. they know about him and let him do, it anyway.they know about9/11 on the plans that took down the towers.obama wonts the guns gone for two reason. one so he can maks him self a king, and let china take over. andtwo for marshel law. its coming people. hold on for dear life.hes making food prices highter,gas, our elec. out of sight. turning people into zonnbys, by laying around and not working. TIME TO READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

      • Warrior

        Maybe the U.N. should be working on a treaty for all nations to be giving up their military’s guns “first”! Yea, right. No, the problem is not the guns in the hands of the nation’s military’s, it must be the problem is guns in the hands of the nations citizens. Hmmm, I wonder if this Assad character would be willing to sign that treaty?

      • eddie47d

        Obama doesn’t want to be king or enact Martial Law so please step back from your incoherent comment and stop drinking that insane right wing kool aid Charlene.

      • http://Yahoo Blue

        They seem to always select certain individuals for their false flags and you always notice how quiet and deposed they appear in court. Did he appear drugged? Yes he did. They wouldn’t want him to remember how it all began, now would they? He was another dupe like the underwear bomber who was led aboard that flight by someone in a black suit and right through the TSA checkpoint. It is an attack on our 2nd amendment and Obama will sign that treaty. If he gets another four years, America is toast. It’s just amazing that he gets any support from any people in America. I guess those individuals have drunk the coolaide for way too long. Of course, lamestream media is pushing the gun control agenda. If our guns are confiscated, we are sitting ducks.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Obama doesn’t want to be king or enact Martial Law so please step back from your incoherent comment and stop drinking that insane right wing kool aid Charlene”.
        As if Eddie knows what Obama wants.

      • DaveH

        The only chance we have, Blue, is if the Republican voters wise up and quit electing Big Government Republican Politicians. If the Republicans don’t offer up Small Government nominees, then vote Libertarian (the only Principled choice anyway). I would say the same about the Democrats, but the Democrat voters are too far gone, focused on other peoples’ money to the point of no return.
        http://libertarianparty.org/

      • http://dontknow mike

        if it becomes necessary to form a militia, we militants will prefer high capacity mags.

      • wandamurline

        The reason our forefathers gave us the right to bear arms is because they foresaw this type of tyranical government and in the Declaration of Independence it clearly states “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” It goes on, “But whena long train of abuses and usurpations, pursung invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Depotism, IT IS THEIR RIGHT, IT IS THEIR DUTY (meaning We The People) TO THROW OFF SUCH GOVERNMENT, AND TO PROVIDE NEW GUARDS FOR THEIR FUTURE SECURITY.” It would seem to me that that time has come to throw off this tyranical government and replace it…we hopefully can do this in November by voting the progressive liberal Democraps out….if that does not work then we may be forced into a revolution like the one against King George as it would seem that the RINOS and Democraps and President believe that they are KINGS.

      • eddie47d

        Well Dave H why are you and others always claiming you know what Obama is thinking. Don’t be such a hypocrite especially since so many said 3 years ago that Obama was going to cancel the 2012 elections. It isn’t going to happen so quit stroking yourself.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Well Dave H why are you and others always claiming you know what Obama is thinking. Don’t be such a hypocrite”.
        I judge Obama by his actions, not his words, Eddie, because, like you, he cannot be trusted to be honest.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        I thought from day 1, that this was a false flag. The thing that really gets me is how they’re not even trying very hard. It’s extraordinary in its timing! How convenient! Right before the small arms treaty was to be signed! But it didn’t work! People are waking up and recognizing the lengths our government will go to take away our rights and control us! Along with the outrage, gun sales skyrocketed! People knew or sensed that this was a false flag. Right from the start, witnesses said there were TWO people involved! This operation required a lot of money and a lot of explosives training! And the guy is so drugged that he doesn’t have any memory? Too many links to the federal government! How evil is a government that would carry out something like this?!? Time is growing short! The evil is winning! People need to wake up!

      • CZ52

        The UN treaty seems to be dead for the moment. However, vigilance is still necessary for you know it will rear its ugly head again in the future.

      • Oneguess

        Oh, eddie47d, we’ve missed you so!

      • phideaux

        Compare the two photos. They are obviously not the same person.

        http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=506121949404705&set=p.506121949404705&type=1&theater

      • John Wilch (TSgt, USAF Ret.)

        You are 100% right about those idiot gun-grabbers they are out to control everyone; as the old saying goes “An arm citizen is a free citizen, whereas an unarmed one is a SLAVE!”, I for one will go down fighting to defend the Constitution (which i swore to defend against alll enemies foreign and domestic in 1963) and the rights that it intails.

        US COMBAT VETERAN: Vietanm ’68 – ’69; Doorgunner, 1st Cavalry Division (AM). “GO FIRST TEAM!” Retired in ’92 as an E-6 after serving honorably for over 30 years.

        GOD BLESS THE US OF A and MAY SHE REIGN FOREVER!

      • Jill

        It’s more than guns. About the same time this shooting happened, the LIBOR scandal hit the news. Robert Holmes is this guy’s dad. He is the chief investigator of these criminal bankers who are/were manipulating the interest rates charged. He was/is set to testify before Congress because of his knowledge–i.e., the chief investigator! Also, the senior lead scientist with the American Credit Score Company FICO!
        Imagine the criminality involved in this thing.

      • eddie47d

        What criminalality in the business world? Imagine that!

      • moonbeam

        to Phideaux – I looked at the picture you provided from your link and I’m looking at the picture on this page in the article. Look at the left ears of each picture, everyone. The guy with the dark hair, his left ear is pointed at the top. The guy with the hot mess red hair dye, his left ear is not pointed and is wider and more flat. These are definitely two different guys. What the heck is going on here? Is there no depth to which our government will go? Apparently not.

        Arm yourselves to the teeth, people. Something evil this way comes.

      • http://n/a Georg O.P. Eschert

        Whenever something goes wrong then the Government is at fault, the easy and fast way to blame others. Those who have guns will eventually use them, be it either for personal reasons like having had a bad day at work or out on the road, too much sunshine or alcohol or drugs consumed prior the crime was committed.
        Especially the ones who are so quiet, brave, play online games and work on computers are my concern. Over here in Japan we have the same problems, especially during the summer season when it is hot and humid. People suddenly knife each other down. Later on the media reports that all of them were usually very quiet and excellent citizens, computer specialists, gamers online with no prior convictions. Those online games and war or violent games should be made unlawful. Those folks get too much into all of that and experience memory loss, lose contact with the reality and act and live like they still live inside the game. But who gets blamed ? –> of course, our Governments under the false-flag of new secret Gov- projects being tested on us.
        Think about it !
        Those folks who commit those crimes are usually shy and very weak, mentally unstable people who deserve medical treatment but in return never should be allowed to return to society till they die.
        Have more faith into our Governments, it is not easy to govern in this current century.
        Peace to Earth – 73 (Per aspera ad astra).

      • Vicki

        phideaux says:
        “Compare the two photos. They are obviously not the same person.”

        Good find Phideaux. The noses are completely different. The eyebrows don’t quite match. The ears (what we can see of them) do not quite match.

      • JC

        Georg O.P. Eschert says:
        July 30, 2012 at 3:34 pm
        Whenever something goes wrong then the Government is at fault, the easy and fast way to blame others. Those who have guns will eventually use them, be it either for personal reasons like having had a bad day at work or out on the road, too much sunshine or alcohol or drugs consumed prior the crime was committed.

        _______________________________________________________________________

        What absolute garbage. That comment is right out of the twisted liberal playbook.
        Law abiding citizens who own guns…are still law abiding citizens.

      • Old Henry

        George:

        It sounds like Japan needs to implement Knife Control with a 3 day waiting periodd. Perhaps a phot ID KOID Card. Knife Owner Identification Card…

    • Dave67

      More BS from DaveH who supports the Koch Brothers that have spent millions to 1) get rid of unions 2) make sure Citizen’s United opinion goes their way so they their interests can spend millions and all undocumented to lobby congress for the right wing corporatist interests so laws in this country can be changes to further the wealth gap in this country.

      But I am sure Dave will have theory from mises.org to favor us with…

      • Oneguess

        Brain-dead much? Brainwashing hasn’t helped.

      • phideaux

        If Dave67 isn’t Flushy (thanks Opal) he is a Flushy impersenator

      • Dave67

        Nope, I just know the record of Obama, do you?

        I also know the blathering of DaveH and his theoretical BS that doesn’t have much to do with the real world.

        This article is a joke, its a joke based on the small arms treaty assertion, the idea that Obama wants to come and take your guns…

        This article has everything to do to get the NRA more members and more gun sales. Nothing more.

      • JeffH

        Several words come to mind that desribe Dave67 – “troll”, “shill”, “lackey”

      • Michael J.

        Dave67 = Axis Idiot

      • DaveH

        Dave67 says — “I also know the blathering of DaveH and his theoretical BS that doesn’t have much to do with the real world”.
        Blathering? Isn’t that a Flashman word? Of course if it isn’t he just adds more evidence that lack of logic and facts isn’t just a Flashman thing, it’s a Progressive thing.
        The “real world” is one of Leaders living high on their constituents backs. The “real world” is misinforming shills like Dave67 (Flashman?). The “real world” is Politicians supporting their Crony Capitalists at the expense of their competitors, their consumers, and the taxpayers. The “real world” is the failure of Socialistic countries throughout history. The “real world” is countries’ economies growing inversely to the size their Governments:
        http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

        If I was an ignorant thieving Progressive like Dave67, I wouldn’t wear it like a badge of honor.

      • Dave67

        LOL!!! DaveH is at it again…

        Ok DaveH, tell me what leaders in the real world do not live well (off the people that do the work)

        DaveH is a sad joke… Of Course he will have mises.org to prove his BS but maybe one day he will come and join us in reality.

      • Old Henry

        JeffH:

        Now, now. We must maintain “civils discourse”.

        Dave67 is one of those who will be standing there scratching his south end and picking his nose goin’ Whaaa when TSHTF. Oh well, it will help put some chlorine into the gene pool….

      • macgyver1948

        Dave67… You do know you are opening yourself up for cry babies and name calling infant?.

        When David Koch was the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in the 1980 presidential election, partnering with presidential candidate Ed Clark The Clark–Koch team promised to abolish Social Security. So let’s not forget the Koch Klan will do what corporations want because they are corporations. Since then The Koch Klan gave up trying to run for Government and instead they are working on buying it up and that is evident with TP/GOP.

        Of course the Koch Klan have spent millions to 1) get rid of unions 2) make sure Citizen’s United opinion goes their way so they their interests can spend millions and all undocumented to lobby congress for the right wing corporatist interests so laws in this country can be changes to further the wealth gap in this country”. The Koch Klan is the power behind Citizens United and groups like them and the Supreme Court betrayed us in finding in favor of Citizens United. Koch/TEA loved it. Actually a more reality based name for Citizens United would be Corporations United.

        Getting rid of things that help people such as Social Security, Unions when they work right, any government agency that might cost the expenses of a corporation to rise because of safety and environmental needs and any President who will not work exclusively for the benefit of the Big Corporations and minimum wages are just not who the Koch Klan want around. TEA predecessor, The John Birch Society, hated President Eisenhower, calling him a Commie, and now they hate Obama for that reason, or is it also because he is black?

        There are more but that is plenty for now. Oh, let’s not forget any industry with the potential to be in direct competition with any Koch enterprise.
        The Koch Klan will use whatever tools they want to obtain their goals, now it is owning the Government, such as Romney.

        Anyway Dave67. Be prepared to feel like you are in a kindergarten and don’t worry about having your feelings hurt here. Say what you have to say and let the childishness slide off your back and try not to respond with the name calling.

    • Jeff

      Faux News. Really? I’d say the likelihood of there being one word of truth in this Article is roughly the same that W himself flew both planes into the World Trade Center and survived (like Batman).

    • Daveh234

      What crap you put up….all lies.
      No relavence to the conversation….
      made up Fox news crap? I don’t get why you have to push YOUR agenda when nothing is going on.
      LIES>>>LIES>>>LIES

    • Daveh234

      DaveH has about ten times and even more percent responses on this site than the supposed paid shills he gripes about. What could be his agenda? It is most suspect.

      • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

        Hm. That is suspect. Where there’s smoke there’s fire. I think that’s pretty strong evidence that DaveH is a shill, not only for this site but mises.org!

      • JeffH

        Honesty, integrity, truth, freedom, educating, consistency, credibility and exposing big government shills, lackies, ignorant liberals and progressives like yourselves. After 3 + years here, that’s what I’ve seen out of DaveH and his track record of providing quality resources. He’s someone I would trust.

        That’s my opinion but feel free to disagree and ridicule mises.org and DaveH himself because that’s all you have to bring to the table.

  • Mad Max

    I’m not worried about my guns. We have much bigger problems that guns wont solve. There is only one hope left to save this country. The founding fathers left us with a fail safe mechanism to control our government when it gets out of control. This is more powerful and affective then our guns could ever be. It’s called “the Nuclear option” and for good reason. This is our big gun, so put the little guns away.

    “Be Smart!” –
    FIGHT THE CAUSE – NOT THE SYMPTOM

    U.S. Citizens
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://revolution2.osixs.org )

    Non U.S. Citizens
    Read “Common Sense 3.2” at ( http://SaveTheWorldNow.osixs.org )

    If you know the world around you is collapsing and you do nothing about it, then who’s really at fault when you stood by and did nothing? We have to stop whining and do something about it. We don’t have to live like this anymore.

    • Patriot II

      Mad Max; why are you ASSuming the Fed Gov’t is on our side? We need “Guns” to protect ourselves from Tyranny, In fact “The INDIVIDUAL’S right to keep and bear Arms” should not be limited to guns but weapons of the day. The 2nd Amendment was written to insure the people could not be taken over by a tyrannical Government, in fact “Arms” were limited to Cap & Ball or Flint Locks! It needs to be updated to include any and all arms that can be carried that are as lethal in the event that the Federal Government is given over to Tyranny, or we are taken over by foreign invaders. More importantly our right to defend our lives and property from thieves, especially important when there is a disaster in this country of any shape or form, from a breakdown in the food supply chain to Natural disasters. Are the police going be there like Johnny on the spot when a criminal invades your home to get you goods or food? None of this has a freaking thing to do with Hunting. Why would Obama want to take away our right to defend ourselves? That is the real question here.

      • eddie47d

        Your too obsessed with Your Rights and not enough with the victims who no longer have rights! When guns are so easily accessible your bound to have these continued tragedies. Sorry I don’t want the person sitting next to me in a theater holding an AR-15 or any other weapon for that matter. James Holmes should have been red flagged in the speed he bought his weapons (including bombs) and also that large stash of ammo. Americans should have access to self protection but under the strictest of laws.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Your too obsessed with Your Rights and not enough with the victims who no longer have rights!”.
        To the contrary, Eddie. You and your gun-grabbing buddies are accessories to the murder of all the innocent victims who could not protect themselves easily thanks to your anti-second-amendment gun laws.

      • Average Joe

        eddie47d,
        As usual, you come here, spout off your opinion…with absolutely nothing to back up your opinion. How do you ever expect anyone to take you seriously? Don’t buy a vowel…buy a clue eddie47d. As long as you keep spouting off and not backing it up…..you’ll continue look like an idiot…and in your case, looks apparently… aren’t decieving.
        Open up another can of stupid and wash it down with a big cup of STFU!

        Best Wishes,
        AJ

      • TML

        Eddie says, “James Holmes should have been red flagged in the speed he bought his weapons (including bombs) and also that large stash of ammo. Americans should have access to self protection but under the strictest of laws.”

        Laws that forbid the carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, because an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

        Stricter gun laws are not the answer. And you would have your fellow citizen disarmed as you said plainly you don’t want anyone in a theater next to you with any kind of weapon. We… those with understanding… think more of the victims who lost their lives than do people such as yourself (those driven by irrational fears)

      • Tracy

        It is going to come down to a revolt! I will not give up my guns to nobody. I am ready to get rid of our goverment now. Too much greed and liars in office now.

      • Tracy

        eddie47d You are an idiot!!!!! Criminals dont worry about gun laws stupid they steal what they want from helpless people!!!! The law are not here to protect us any more they are here for the money,catching speeders that are late for work instead of the crack dealers and gang members. It is like the goverment they prey on the working man. We pay for all the trashy ass people that wont work. So i hope you get robbed and then you can see how it feels to be in the real world!!!!

      • eddie47d

        Wake up Dave H and Average Joe and company. The Swiss have extremely strict laws in the control of weapons And allow the ownership of weapons. They also don’t have theater shootings and school massacres. If you can’t see the problem then you all are beyond help. You my friends are marching your fellow citizens to the slaughter.

      • TML

        Eddie says, “Wake up Dave H and Average Joe and company. The Swiss have extremely strict laws in the control of weapons And allow the ownership of weapons. They also don’t have theater shootings and school massacres. If you can’t see the problem then you all are beyond help. You my friends are marching your fellow citizens to the slaughter.”

        The Swiss don’t just allow ownership of weapons, have laws that government issue every able-bodies person a firearm, while you admittedly don’t want your neighbor to be armed with “any kind of weapon”.

        So while we see from the Swiiss, who have never been invaded because all citizens are armed, you reject this same idea for the citizens of America. You kind of proverbially… “shooting yourself in the foot”, with that example Eddie.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        eddie47d just lies and makes up crap!!! Ignore him!!!

      • MAP

        Nancy, I believe you are accusing Eddie47d of being a typical liberal.

      • http://www.ifonlyphotos.com Alex Frazier

        eddie, no one really likes what guns do to other people, particularly when in the hands of criminals. I’m not personally a gun fanatic. But I am a history buff and a Constitutionalist. I believe in facts, not hype or propaganda. Some simple facts for you:

        1) By category, more people die every year in automobile accidents, drownings, and even in accidental falls than from firearm homicides (CDC, 2009 Report). By percentage, firearm homicides are not even in the top ten causes of death in the United States. Number one is heart disease, which kills more than 50% of the people who die each year.

        2) Influential people in high places (Sarah Brady) have publicly stated that disarming the public through any means, including lying, is needful in order to succeed in a socialist agenda. To quote her directly:

        “Our main agenda is to have ALL guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn’t matter if you have to distort facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.” – Sarah Brady, President of Handgun Control, Inc., to Senator Howard Metzenbaum – The National Educator, January, 1994, Page 3.

        3) 75% of violent crimes do not involve the use of firearms. (CNN Report)

        4) Some of the greatest atrocities in history have been committed by governments against their own people.

        Instances of democide (a rough mixture of genocide, politicide, and mass murder) have been documented in communist states such as the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin, in the People’s Republic of China under Mao Zedong, and in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge. To that, add as well Kim Il Sung, Mao Tse-tung, Ho Chi Minh and Pol Pot. There were anywhere from 21-70 million non-combatant civilians killed by these governments (their own) during peacetime. See Manus I. Midlarsky, The killing trap: genocide in the twentieth century. Also, see Steven Rosefielde’s Red Holocaust.

        And all of this is ignoring the obvious, like Nazi Germany and the six million Jews who were murdered. The ones that died first were German Jews. On November 9th, Jews were killed, arrested, and their property was destroyed in the pogrom that started as the Night of Broken Glass. The problem was further aggravated with the added regulation against Jews:

        “Jews (§ 5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt 1, p. 1332) are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.” (Regulations Against Jews’ Possession of Weapons)

        So they weren’t even permitted to have a stick to beat off an attacker while a state sponsored riot was in full force throughout Germany. As the Germans marched on, the people in the invaded countries were disarmed and overtaken.

        And let’s not forget the Rape of Nanking, where Japanese soldiers murdered upwards of 300,000 disarmed troops and citizens. Today we still have issues in various parts of Africa. There is also Burma. The list goes on.

        These are only a few choice examples of the last century, during what most might call a “civilized” era, versus our barbaric past when we didn’t know better. It’s always important to remember that we have nun-chucks today because of Sho Shin in the 1400s, who disarmed the citizens of the Ryukyu kingdom to prevent the possibility of revolt.

        The fact is, governments disarm their people so they can do what they want with impunity, and people who are disarmed inevitably become the victims of those governments.

        5) Guns do not shoot themselves. Guns are a tool. They are a tool that can kill. But so can a hammer, a chainsaw, a butter knife, a monkey wrench, a baseball bat, or a number of other things. The gun is no more going to load, rack, point and fire itself than the chainsaw is going to gas up, prime, choke, pull start, and lunge at someone’s throat. Guns don’t kill. Guns are tools used by killers.

        6) England has a complete ban on firearms for its citizens. It hasn’t stopped gun crimes. Nor has it disarmed the criminals. During the riots in London in August of 2011, there is video footage of looters with guns. Eye witness accounts from store proprietors also claim that they were held at gun point, with no way to defend themselves.

        7) In Mexico there is a complete ban on firearms. Yet, it is one of the most violent places in the world right now. It’s not a good place to visit. The goal was to disarm the criminals, but all it managed to do was disarm the vulnerable public. Now the bad guys have the guns, and everyone else treads carefully. And our own government has been giving guns to these drug cartels to generate a Sarah Brady bending of the truth that will pave the way for banning assault rifles.

        Bro, I appreciate your outrage at what happened in Colorado. It was an awful thing. But he’s one man. He makes up less than .00000001% of the United States population. When you talk about stricter laws, you’re talking about putting more laws on 309,999,999 people due to the actions of 1.

        In the grand scheme of things, we need the ability to keep our government at bay. To preserve our freedom, we need the ability to fight back should it ever become necessary. If you are attacked, you have the right to defend yourself, and so do I. Neither of us should have to be made vulnerable because of a lunatic’s actions.

      • Flashy

        Alex….your argument is the one used in any debate over gun control. facts are facts…guns are used to commit violent crime, they are used to ll people, and widespread packing outside the home does not make anyone safer…just the opposite. you want to have an arsenal in the home/ have at it. As I said, affects me not unless I’m your neighbor. For all I care, go in the backyard and play target practice using your tonsils as the target.

        Packin’ in public? Uh uh..that’s where my Right to be safe overrides anyone’s Right to pack a concealed handgun. Period. And no…I seriously have doubts about being safe with people packin in public places.

        As to your “quote’ of Sarah brady….ummmm, it’s a lie. Out and out fabricated lie. i’d advise checking on it before using it any more.

        ================ (from one of several sites about it)

        There are two common “strains” of the Sarah Brady bogus quote, one short, one long:

        “Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us are totally disarmed.”

        “Our main agenda is to have ALL guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn’t matter if you have to distort facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.”

        The most common citation for both versions is: The National Educator, January, 1994, Page 3 (link is off-site). As you can see, the long version does not exist for the citation given.

        This tall-tale gets further embellished by claiming either Sarah Brady made her statement in a letter to Howard Metzenbaum or the quote appeared as an article, again the National Educator, page 3, is usually cited.

        Here is a small sample taken from the sadly large number of Web pages mentioning the bogus quote and illustrating the above points (visited September, 7, 2007):

        http://www.newswithviews.com/Hayes/gianni5.htm
        http://usa-patriot.net/page1.shtml
        http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=25482
        http://www.newswithviews.com/Evensen/greg2.htm
        http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_newsom_01_03_03_destruction1.html

        A footnote (193) in this law review article purports to cite the Congressional Record of 1989 and 1994 when Congress was considering a ban on certain semi-automatic weapons. The footnote reads:

        140 CONG. REC. S1864-01, S1866 (daily ed. Feb. 28, 1989) (statement of William Pattison). Sarah Brady has been cited as stating that, “Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who could resist us have been totally disarmed.” 140 CONG. REC. H3063-05. H3071-H3072 (daily ed. May 5, 1994) (statement of Joel Carlston). Such a result is exactly what the Framers of the Second Amendment sought to prevent. James Madison stated, “Americans need never fear their government because of the advantage of being armed. . .” Id.

        William Pattison made no such statement regarding Sarah Brady. In fact, it is highly unlikely he would have, since he was speaking on behalf of the National Association of Police Organizations urging Congress to approve the “assault weapons” ban. A check of all statements for that day reveals no reference to “the quote.” (Mr. Pattison’s entire statement can be viewed here.)

        The 1994 instance, (statement from Joel Carlston, Wyoming President of Americans Against Gun Control), not only mentions the Brady quote, but incorrectly quotes James Madison from Federalist No. 46, and recites another bogus quote falsely attributed to Thomas Jefferson. (“The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”)

      • JeffH

        The National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) measures the nonfatal violent crimes of rape/sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault. Victims who experience violent crimes are asked if the offender(s) used weapons.

        In 2009 —

        An offender was armed with a gun, knife, or other object used as a weapon in an estimated 22% of all incidents of violent crime.

        Offenders used firearms to commit 8% of violent crime incidents in 2009.

        Robberies (47%) were the most likely crime to involve an armed offender.

        Firearms (28%) were the most common weapons used in robberies.

        Most rapes and assaults did not involve the use of a weapon.

        From 1993-1997, of serious nonfatal violent victimizations, 28% were committed with a firearm, 4% were committed with a firearm and resulted in injury, and less than 1% resulted in gunshot wounds.
        http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=43

      • TML

        Flashy says, “Packin in Public. Uh uh..that’s where my Right to be safe overrides anyone’s Right to pack a concealed handgun.”

        So your right to be safe… from criminals who would carry in public regardless of law… overrides anyone’s right to protect themselves?

        You seem to have a very narrow, self-serving, view of liberty Flashy. Not to mention a false fear that anyone who is packing in public is a danger to you.

        Riddle me this one Flashy… While you support laws that would restrict people’s right to carry concealed in public for self protection, do you honestly believe that those determined to commit crimes would adhere to that law?

        Answer that one question, and then we will proceed with your answer

      • eddie47d

        Nancy.MAP and TML enough of your ignorant replies. Read up about the Swiss instead of just spouting the right wing version. Yes they can have weapons in their homes and have mandatory “conscription”. Beyond that all weapons are severely restricted and NO ammunition is allowed to be stored in their homes by government order. That same government is allowed in their homes to inspect if necessary. Once their term of duty is over those weapons either have to be turned in or to be modified to a single shot weapon by that same government. Calling other liars Nancy seems to be your mode of operation anymore.

      • TML

        Eddie says, “TML enough of your ignorant replies. Read up about the Swiss ”

        I’m aware of Switzerland gun laws, but it makes little impact against my point, and doesn’t help yours when referencing their more liberty challenged laws of even having to let government inspect your home. You’re argument seems more against any kind of liberty for people to protect themselves. You did say you don’t want people to have any kind of weapon in public right?

        My replies certainly are not ignorant… instead, you ignore my points, and don’t even respond directly to them with a sensible argument. Perhaps because there isn’t one?

      • DaveH

        Flashman, as usual, fabricates his facts.
        Flashman says — “widespread packing outside the home does not make anyone safer…just the opposite”.
        Yeah well, just ignore the fact that violent crime has gone down since 1991:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

      • DaveH

        And that, coincidentally, the right to carry concealed weapons has been increasing since that time:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif

      • CZ52

        From an article on firearm ownership in Switzerland.

        Read it and weap eddie read it and weap. Guess you thought no one would take you up on looking it up huh.

        “By the Federal Constitution of 1874, military servicemen are given their first equipment, clothing and arms. After the first training period, conscripts must keep gun, ammunition and equipment an ihrem Wohnort (“in their homes”) until the end of their term of service.

        Today, enlisted men are issued M57 automatic assault rifles and officers are given pistol, Each reservist is issued 24 rounds of ammunition in sealed packs for emergency use. (Contrary to Handgun Control’s claim that “all ammunition must be accounted for,” the emergency ammunition is the only ammo that requires accounting.)

        After discharge from service, the man is given a bolt rifle free from registration or obligation. Starting in the 1994, the government will give ex-reservists assault rifles. Officers carry pistols rather than rifles and are given their pistols the end of their service.

        When the government adopts a new infantry rifle, it sells the old ones to the public.

        Reservists are encouraged to buy military ammunition (7.5 and 5.6mm-5.56 mm in other countries-for rifles and 9 and 7.65 mm Luger for pistols, which is sold at cost by the government, for target practice Non-military ammunition for long-gun hunting and .22 Long Rifle (LR) ammo are not subsidised, but are subiect to no sales controls. Non-military non-hunting ammunition more powerful than .22 LR (such as .38 Spl.) is registered at the time of sale.

        Swiss military ammo must be registered if bought at a private store, but need not be registered if bought at a range The nation’s 3,000 shooting ranges sell the overwhelming majority of ammunition. Technically, ammunition bought at the range must be used at the range, but the rule is barely known and almost never obeyed.

        The army sells a variety of machine guns, submachine guns, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft guns, howitzers and cannons. Purchasers of these weapons require an easily obtained cantonal license, and the weapons are registered, In a nation of six million people, there are at least two million guns, including 600,00 fully automatic assault rifles, half a million pistols, and numerous machine guns. Virtually every home has a gun.

        Besides subsidised military surplus, the Swiss can buy other firearms easily too. While long guns require no special purchase procedures, handguns are sold only to those with a Waffenerwerbsschien (purchase certificate) issued by a cantonal authority. A certificate is issued to every applicant over 18 who is not a criminal or mentally infirm.”

      • eddie47d

        Doesn’t change a thing I said CZ52 you only added more information. Thanks for pointing out that law about ammunition at the shooting ranges but it is still against the Swiss law to take that ammo home. Now they can use as much as they like but excess has to be turned in. The Swiss have a more responsible approach to weapons and the regulations are tighter than you implied. We could learn something.

      • Vicki

        CZ52 says:
        “From an article on firearm ownership in Switzerland.

        Read it and weap eddie read it and weap. Guess you thought no one would take you up on looking it up huh.”

        We knew from past experience that eddie lies or makes stuff up. However for extra fun can you post a link to that article.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Your too obsessed with Your Rights and not enough with the victims who no longer have rights! ”

        We are fighting for their rights to be armed and dangerous. It is YOU who would keep them from having the best tool for self defense when they need it the most. It is YOU and people like you who made the theater a “gun-free” zone where only the shooter would be armed.

        P.S. the reader will notice how effective the signs and “law” were in keeping guns out of that theater.

      • http://www.ifonlyphotos.com Alex Frazier

        @ Flashy – I’ll look into the Sarah Brady quote. Thanks for bringing the potential problem to my attention.

        How does it endanger you if I carry a handgun to protect myself from being robbed, assaulted, murdered, etc.? Are you under the impression that the gun makes me a criminal? Or that the gun will inspire me to behave as a criminal? You do realize that the gun won’t shoot itself, right? Do you believe that I will shoot you because I have a gun?

    • seanpatrick3000

      Mad Max, why dont you call your Revolution 2.0 what it really is, Communism 2.0
      You have to be nuts to think this is a good idea. Communism has been tried and failed everywhere it’s tried. Why do you think it will work here?

      • GALT

        IGNORANCE is STRENGTH.

        The bell has been rung today, and the dogs are salivating…….on cue. Will this be good for business?

        It would appear that ” To conquer, first DIVIDE!” can be achieved quite simply by relying on the obvious fact that WORDS……..having been stripped of any meaningful definition are easily employed to incite the rabble who think they understand them and will respond accordingly to whatever their preconceived notion happens to be…………

        Today’s word is “communism” ( for sp3000 ) a term, credited to Karl Marx ( & Engels ) as
        a response to the obvious flaws in the economic conditions of the times ( 1848 ). Your mission……if you decide to accept it……..is to determine, precisely what those “conditions”
        consisted of and what terms you would use to DEFINE that which actually EXISTED?
        That which did exist evolved from this concept or if you prefer this observation or concern?

        “A man must live by his work, and his wages must be at least enough to maintain him.
        They must even on most occasions be somewhat more: otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family and the RACE of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.”

        While it is interesting to note sp3000′s claim of the failure of “communism” as an “economic system” one must first grant a number of assumptions…….

        1.) That is has actually been TRIED which is difficult to establish in that it’s contemporary
        manifestations it has been “claimed” by “political machines whose governmental structures
        were based on FORCE”……….whose primary function was to maintain “central authority”
        FIRST………and then to deal with the understanding of the particular’s of this “economic
        philosophy” from within this framework.

        The REALITY of “communism” or “the communal nature” of humanity, is a well established
        evolutionary survival strategy that has been with us from our beginning as a distinct species, approximately 200,000 years ago……..and is responsible for our present condition at the “top of the food change”, although how much longer we will be there does
        not look promising……….to understand this, if you choose to……..you should read:

        The Social Conquest of Earth: E.O.Wilson ( 2012 )

        2.) The second assumption that is required is that “economic philosophy” is VALID and
        actually can be shown to have an “empirical foundation”………and unfortunately, this assumption has been easily demonstrated to be FALSE………so any discourse, which seeks to argue a preference regarding what is presently understood as a “distinct economic philosophy” regardless of what one chooses to call it………is essentially irrelevant and a continuation of the “willful ignorance” that permeates the general population and which is simply the “perceived self interest” of the “eye of the beholder”,
        although this is often cited as “rational self interest”. To understand THIS:

        Economic’s Unmasked: Smith and Max-Neef ( 2011 )

        Of course, the understanding of REALITY which rests on the “empirical discipline” as opposed to the various mythologies which still hold sway, is not one which has reached
        a level of “common understanding”…………..so that, the endless babble, clearly evidenced
        each and everyday on this site and others, seeks only to serve the “perceived self interest” of the bell ringer………any connection to REALITY or the TRUTH, is purely co-incidental…………….( to be continued and continually demonstrated……until next time )

        ” Do not ask for WHOM the bell tolls………just salivate, baby! “

      • DaveH

        Apparently, Galt, you were standing too close to that bell as it was tolling.

      • GALT

        Not to worry David……..this is going to be a lot of fun…….as you are one of the salivating
        puppies……you will be oblivious to most of it…….while being an excellent demonstration of the compulsion of the willfully ignorant to produce an irrelevant response to that for which they possess precisely zero comprehension………….

        Where are those (common) law and equity courts?

        Why have you “voluntarily” exchanged “rights” for privileges and benefits, and subjected yourself to fee’s, fines, duties, impost, excises, direct and indirect taxes, which had you not
        done so…….would then actually be “unconstitutional”……..? and by continue to ignore the
        SOLUTION makes you…….like the rest here……a part of the PROBLEM!

        Don’t have a von mises link to explain this? Try this one…….

        http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/freeman/freeman4.htm

        FREEDOM is SLAVERY……..bye now.

    • Average Joe

      eddie47d,

      “The Swiss have extremely strict laws in the control of weapons And allow the ownership of weapons.”

      Seriously?

      Once again…opinion… with no facts eddie….where are your verifiable facts?
      You make a claim….but fail to prove that claim…Eddiot…

      You prove my point with every posting that you make…keep up the good work.

      Best Wishes,
      AJ

      • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

        You’re right, Average Joe! We SHOULD look to Europe to solve all of our problems in the US! Glad to see you’re on the winning team!

        You people crack me up. You’ll grab at anything if it’ll help you make some untenable point even if it conflicts with everything you’ve ever said before.

      • Average Joe

        freelarrysinclair,

        “We SHOULD look to Europe to solve all of our problems in the US! Glad to see you’re on the winning team! ”

        I’m not sure what you are trying to say here..as I didn’t mention anything about Europe in my post .

        This was a quote from eddie47d….not a quote from me….“The Swiss have extremely strict laws in the control of weapons And allow the ownership of weapons.”

        I simply pointed out that he didn’t back up his assertions with any facts…as eddie always does….opinion…no facts.

        I rely on the 2nd Amendment and could really care less about Europe and thier policies.

        Best Wishes,
        AJ

      • eddie47d

        So Joe are you going to be as dense and stubborn and refuse to look up the facts or is that your way off pleading ignorance on the subject.

      • Average Joe

        eddie47d,
        Again, where is your proof of anything you say? Oh right, you didn’t bring any…(who woulda thunk?)

        You write:

        ” The Swiss have extremely strict laws in the control of weapons And allow the ownership of weapons.”

        Actually eddie, the Swiss are unique in thier attitude twards guns and gun control and a bit of actual research on your behalf would have shown that to be true):

        From Wikipedia:

        Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a peoples Militia to defend their country. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. Due to this fact, the personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations. Switzerland has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world. In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.A referendum in February 2011 rejected stricter gun control.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

        Eddie, there are a myriad of other links out there for you to research to obtain a bit of enlightenment about the real world vs. your imagined world ( not that I believe that you can or will read any of them). You like to hold others accountable for the things that they say here, but seem to think that the same standards should not be applied to you ( hypocracy, thy name is eddie47d)

        You remind me of a wind sock…you always have your mouth open…but nothing but air seems to eminate from your backside….

        The ball is in your court now eddie…put up or shut up…your incessant whing isn’t pretty and your ignorance is showing.

        Best Wishes,
        AJ

      • Dave67

        AJ,

        Wikipedia is not “fact” and is a highly dubious source if you are trying to prove an argument.

        The Swiss Federal Police Office reports that in 1997 there were 87 intentional homicides and 102 attempted homicides in the entire country. Some 91 of these 189 murders and attempts involved firearms. With its population of seven million (including 1.2 million foreigners), Switzerland had a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. There were 2,498 robberies (and attempted robberies), of which 546 involved firearms, resulting in a robbery rate of 36 per 100,000. Almost half of these crimes were committed by non-resident foreigners, whom locals call “criminal tourists.”

        Now you say “correctly” that all males must server in the country “militia” so that means they do not have the “liberty” to be a part of the volunteer force that we have in this country. That flies in the face of the libertarian viewpoint #1. They they have training on the weapons they do have, their culture is not like ours either… Also they are more socialistic-likr when it comes to the services they provide to their people. They have a HC mandate “gasp!!! oh the horror!!!”

        http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3431.htm

        Their culture as far as guns go is completely different than ours… They like the Israelis do not view guns as toys like many in this country do, They are not as narcissistic as us, not sold on fear like us.

        We need to get to the root that causes people in this country to wig out and turn to guns as the first means to deal with anything.

      • eddie47d

        The ball is still in my court and the article doesn’t refute a thing I said. Matter of fact it backs me up. Ammunition is not kept at home except for select swat type teams. They take gun ownership seriously too bad you trivialize our incoherent and reckless laws. Best Wishes in an attempt to be more truthful.

      • Average Joe

        Dave67 says:

        “Wikipedia is not “fact” and is a highly dubious source if you are trying to prove an argument.”

        I am guessing that reading comprehension is not one of your strong suits?
        Nice try, but invalid as an argument on your behalf. Since you obviously missed what I said……

        I wrote:

        “Eddie, there are a myriad of other links out there for you to research to obtain a bit of enlightenment about the real world vs. your imagined world ( not that I believe that you can or will read any of them). ”

        My point, for eddie and folks like you…bring verifiable facts to support your arguments…otherwise you are simply giving us your opinion…and your opinion isn’t worth squat to us. eddie47d likes to spout off, but never offers anything other than his opinion…he needs to do the work and validate his assertions…and ….you need to take a remedial reading comprehension class.

        Best Wishes,
        AJ

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          The Bible isn’t fact either yet people use it all the time. What do you use – Conservapedia or mises.org?

      • Average Joe

        eddie47d,

        You have got to be the most dense skulled human that I have ever had the displeasure to have conversed with…you still don’t get the point of this conversation that you and I are having….it isn’t about Switzerland’s gun laws….it is and has been about ther fact that YOU never bring anything to back up your claims…nothing…ever.
        It is about the fact that it usually takes a very few seconds to look something up and post a link to your “facts”…you know…back up what you say with something verifiable.
        You whine that others don’t do it…but somehow…you should be held to a different standard than what you want to hold others to…you are quite simply…a hypocrite. As stated previously…bring something other than your opinion to the table, if you wish to be taken seriously….so far you have not brought anything other than your opinion…..and your opinion isn’t worth the time it takes you to type it.

        As I stated above…I really don’t care what the gun laws in europe happen to be, I rely solely on the US Constitution, The Declaration of Independence and my creator for my right to bear arms…the UN has no authority over me, nor does Europe or “statutes” passed under “color of law”by legislators..

        U.C.C. 1-103:6 Common law.The Code is “Complementary” to the common law which remains in force except where displaced by the Code ….

        A statute should be construed in harmony with the common law unless there is a clear legislative intent to abrogate the common law…. “The Code cannot be read to preclude a common law action.”

        Any Statute that is not in harmony with the Constitution is in fact…not law.

        The only way to legitimately change the Second Amendment is by Constitutional Amendment…and so far, that hasn’t happened….nor will it.

        No matter what they do, if they attempt to take away my “creator” given right to defend myself,my family or my property…I will not comply…period.
        I am in no way… a “gun nut”. I own 3 black powder pistols (because they are just plain fun to shoot), a 9mm. and a .22. So far (in the last 30 yrs.), I have been to the ranges a few times each year and have yet to shoot anyone no matter how badly they may have deserved it. But if the need arises, I will not hesitate to protect my loved ones and my property…period.

        Guns are not the problem…criminals, with or without guns are the problem. If you outlaw guns, you disarm honest law abiding citizens and embolden the criminal elements. Criminals will not turn in thier guns…that is why they are called criminals…they break the law…therefore new laws will have no effect on thier criminal enterprises ( other than to make it easier for them to break the law). The cities with the highest rates of gun violence are also the cities with the most stringent gun laws, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Detroit, D.C. etc.
        Australia banned ownership a few years ago and all of thhier crime rates have gone up….not down.

        Guns are part of the culture…and banning them will not stop anyone from getting them anymore than prohibition stopped people from drinking or the war on drugs has stopped people from dabbling in drugs…..prohibition doesn’t work…it never has and it never will. Until you liberal unicorn chasers figure out the obvious…..you are doomed and you doom the rest of us along with yourselves. So, ban guns and I will become “just another criminal”….because I am not going to comply.

        For those of us that understand, gun control means one thing…being able to hit your target…period.

        Best Wishes,
        AJ

  • Michael J.

    It seems as though the only thing that our government is now incapable of is the truth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gODzqqNuog&feature=related

    Now get set for the great destroyers axis of idiots daily assault on logic.

    • eddie47d

      The new king of paranoia has now spoken (again).Although interesting how many times has Jones cried wolf and nothing comes of it. I need more proof that Holmes was a government plant instead of all this conjecture.

      • http://Internetexplorer Ray

        you have your head to deep in the sand to see the truth,,,,,,

      • DaveH

        Alex’s statements of fact have been proved over time far more often than anything that comes from your mouth, Eddie.

      • firefight

        Eddie 47,
        Your comment here leads me to believe that you actually trust and believe in this Government. Is my assumption correct? And……..can you tell me that you don’t believe that this Government has an agenda to disarm the citizens of this country? Can you honestly tell me that with the three most dangerous cities to live in within this country, those being New York, Chicago and Washington, DC with the MOST stringent gun control laws, that the rest of this country needs more gun control like those three cities?

      • eddie47d

        Firefight: If they can’t control the flow of illegal weapons into their cities then the carnage could continue. I’m not against armed citizens only in how they procure those weapons.

      • eddie47d

        So Dave and Ray, Alex Jones gets something right once in awhile and you think he is a god. Never mind all the BS inbetween! Don’t be so gullible!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Firefight: If they can’t control the flow of illegal weapons into their cities then the carnage could continue. I’m not against armed citizens only in how they procure those weapons.”

        So change the law so that weapons are not illegal. Presto no more illegal weapons flowing into their cities. Now they can focus on the real problem. You know. Bad people.

  • Karolyn

    Well, it sure took long enough for PLD to jump on the bandwagon. One cannot come to any conclusions using conjecture, rumors, and “somebody said” as evidence. Holmes mother had even been concerned about his mental health, and she is a psychiatric nurse. So glad I don’t have to live my life thinking there is a conspiracy under every rock. What a terrible way to live.

    • Flashy

      Karolyn…it may be a terrible way to live, but a darn good excuse to satisfy those lacking testicular fortitude and to buy a gun to show their “manliness” and give a ‘tough guy’ image. Some folks need excuses and props to bring themselves into a false front feeling of having a reason to exist.

      Support policies which make it easier for criminals to buy guns and commit crimes…and make it harder to vote. I’d call that anti American, wouldn’t you?.

      • Alex

        Correct, Flashy….

      • http://Internetexplorer Ray

        When you make it harder for law abiding citizens to purchase guns, it does nothing to keep guns out of criminals hands. Criminals will always find a way to arm themselves. It is people like yourself that makes this happen…..

      • Betty

        Flashy…I’ve got new for you! Criminals are crimials because they break the LAW! Do you really think criminals will not get weapons? Locks and Laws were made for people who respect Locks and Laws. We have laws on the books now and we still have all this criminal activity. And our government even furnished some weapons to Mexico to use against our own border control guys and gals. So, why would you not suspect that our government would use someone to commit this type of incident to further their agenda?

      • Flashy

        Uh huh..sure.

        let’s see…you want it easy to buy a gun because you need guns to protect yourself because the laws are so lax even criminals can have guns.

      • http://dontknow mike

        if gun ownership prevented voting, there wouldnt be a POTheadUS

      • DaveH

        Betty, you waste your logic on Flashman, the Big Government shill. He is here merely to interfere with the comments of Freedom Loving Americans.
        Only his fellow Flash dunces could believe that gun laws are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. In fact the biggest Criminals in the land, those who assume the right to help themselves to the property of others, are part of Flashman’s gang and they are heavily armed.

      • Power To The People

        Flashman, check the statistics on the increase in crime in Australia when they made it nearly impossible for the average citizen to purchase a gun for protection. Then come back and tell all of us how that worked out for the criminals!

        Also, check out Kennesaw, GA and see hoe much crime dropped in that town when they enacted requirements that every home should have a weapon to defend themselves. Report back how that worked out.

      • TML

        Flashy says, “Support policies which make it easier for criminals to buy guns and commit crimes…and make it harder to vote. I’d call that anti American, wouldn’t you?.”

        The error in your thinking comes from the idea that criminals actually obey laws, and follow it up with the strawman about voting. It’s your self-refuting policies of gun control that can only be seen as anti-American.

        As for voting… providing proof of who you are, doesn’t make it harder to vote. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

      • TML

        Flashy says, “let’s see…you want it easy to buy a gun because you need guns to protect yourself because the laws are so lax even criminals can have guns.”

        The idea that eludes you is, if guns were even banned completely, criminals can still acquire them through the same means for which they acquire drugs. Purchasing them through the black markets or making them themselves, they care nothing for the laws. So, it’s not that laws are so lax that criminals can have guns… it’s about not making criminals out of law abiding citizens for having the means to protect themselves.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Nah TML, the criminals will get their guns from the federal government, just like the criminals in Mexico do!!! The criminals that are at the head of this government will make sure that they are well armed!!!

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “Support policies which make it easier for criminals to buy guns and commit crimes…and make it harder to vote.”

        Lets compromise. Compromise style
        We will make it harder to vote and we will allow buying guns to have the same rules.

        Or lets compromise and let voting stay as it is and bring gun buying to the same rules.

        Or lets go the other way and make voting as easy as currently buying a firearm.

        Choose one Flashy.

    • Bob

      Fast & furious did not happen either did it, Karolyn. No such thing as Ruby Ridge, nobody named David Korish.
      Go back to sleep, deary.

      • Patriot II

        Bob; Good comment

      • nc

        Bob,What do you do when a blue light goes off behind you on the road? Pull over in response to the law telling you to?? Do you teach your children to do that also???? That dude at Ruby Ridge and David Koresh had more than AMPLE time to “pull over” before anyone was killed!! As for Fast and Furious it may turn out to be a big mistake or even criminal conduct but that is being investigated under other parts of the same Constituion that contains the second amendment! Do you really believe the COLO. shooting was a false flag or are you just trying to help Uncle Bob out of a weak position?

      • Thinking About

        Bob, we never had Wide Receiver before Fast & Furious either and I guess Wide Receiver was planned by Obama before he ever became president, he has some power huh.

      • http://dontknow mike

        bob, you just make it up as you go

      • DaveH

        NC,
        After haunting our board for years now, I can no longer believe that you are just an innocent dupe. Nobody can be that dense.
        Ruby Ridge:
        http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/remember-ruby-ridge

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        Two wrongs only make a right in Liberal minds, TA.

      • CZ52

        ” Thinking About says:
        July 30, 2012 at 9:15 am
        Bob, we never had Wide Receiver before Fast & Furious either and I guess Wide Receiver was planned by Obama before he ever became president, he has some power huh.”

        Of course there was a “wide Receiver” and it happened under Bush. Wide Receiver only involved 400 guns and was stopped as soon as they realized they could not track them even with RF devices implanted in the weapons and with the co-operation of the Mexican authorities. F&F made no attempt to follow the estimated 2,500 firearms allowed to walk and in fact agents on the ground were ordered to not follow the weapons. And I have seen no effort to blaim Wide Receiver on obama.

      • JeffH

        CZ52, add to that…Mexico had no clue of the Fast & Furious operation…this was a hidden agenda done behind their back.

      • Vicki

        nc says:
        “Bob,What do you do when a blue light goes off behind you on the road?”

        Nothing. Blue lights are used on police vehicles in Europe though. Perhaps that tells us a lot about your thinking. Or you are colorblind :)

        Here in America, Emergency vehicles use RED lights.

        California:
        http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25252.htm

      • Karolyn

        Vicki – Here most police use blue lights.

      • Vicki

        Karolyn says:
        “Vicki – Here most police use blue lights.”

        And where is ‘here’? State will be sufficient.

    • charlene

      ya, but was she paid off, or maybe told to stay out of it.of she could even be a part of it. maybe she is a socialish, or markis. could be new know. money talks b/s walks.

      • Alex

        Wow……..

    • Robert Wayne

      No….A terrible way to live is to be stupid enough to believe everything this pile of garbage Obama and his minions tell you. As for using “conjecture, rumors and somebody said” the mainstream media was guilty of this from the beginning when they tried to tie all of this in to the Tea Party when there was no evidence at all other than another man named James Holmes who was a member of the Tea Party.

    • Robert Smith

      Karolyn says: “So glad I don’t have to live my life thinking there is a conspiracy under every rock. What a terrible way to live.”

      It’s the next step for many. First they live in fear of their brutal god. There is little real evidence to support that so they have to accept it on “faith.”

      The next step is to look to things that have “evidence” regardless of how weak.

      As Emmeral would say, “Bang!, a whole new way to fear.”

      Rob

      • steve

        you want proof read the bible

      • John Bowman

        How did you get here? The Earth, Universe, trillions of stars and planets, where did they come from?

      • DaveH

        Robert,
        Where did the attack on religion come from? Was that a necessary part of the conversation? Are you jealous because they strive to have Principles and you don’t?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        steve, you speak the truth. And by their very words, they prove it! The bible plainly speaks of the persecution of believers and that persecution is moving full steam ahead. Not just in the world but in our country too. I never thought that I would see that persecution in my lifetime but it is happening! Believers in GOD are criticized and harassed! They are vilified! They are jailed for conducting bible studies in their own homes! Anyone who has read the bible knows that it is true because everything it said would happen, is happening! So whenever the nut cases critisize belief in GOD and the bible, they just confirm what we already know to be true!

    • RFP

      Move on sheeple….nothing to see here.

    • Jon

      You are correct Karolyn, it is a horrible way to live. Of course, normal Germans felt that way when Hitler used the same ploys. By the time German citizens found out what was happening, it was to late, they had lost control of their country. You have to ask yourself why is it that the only plots that are foiled are those that government agents had a hand in? Why did our strategic command not protect the twin towers? So many questions answered with so many lies.

      • Karolyn

        Whatever. The point is why bother? We can make no difference anyway. Of course, I believe that there is a lot going on we don’t know about, but I can’t do anything about it except control my own little world. If each person concentrated on making the world a better place iinstead of seeking out all the things to make us angry, it would be a much better place. To much focus on the negative just helps it to keep going and get worse. We need more good to outweigh the bad. Power vs. force. Love has all the power.

      • DaveH

        There is lots you can do about it, Karolyn.
        For one, quit pestering good people who have valid grievances with your “think positive” and “love” nonsense, which has nothing to do with the conversation, as if that somehow makes you superior.
        Another would be to educate yourself in the Principles of Freedom, Morality, and Capitalism, so that you may impart them to your acquaintances.
        Here would be a good start:
        http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

      • steve

        dave h. if you were as smart as you think you are, you would know that it does not matter who gets elected . it’s the same body with a different face all the time . get rid of the political system then you can start to fix the country. until then your screwed.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Steve, but you are still a Leftist. So if You get rid of goverment, who are these persons who will jump into the fray to take over quick before the mob gets wise. You are cunning and think yourself clever to play that stupid game with the posters.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Karolyn, the only way evil can exist is for good people to stand by and do nothing. I think it’s fair to say that the vast majority of people just want to live their lives with love and peace. However when you see evil and do nothing it will grow until it has taken over. Love and peace aren’t possible in the presence of evil. I think that you’re mistaken in the view that we will all just be left alone if we do nothing. Many people have made that mistake in the past and have paid dearly for it. If we don’t protect our rights to be left alone we will never have love and peace. You acknowledge that there are things going on in secret, yet you just want to ignore it. Do you really think it will go away by itself? You need to take your head out of the sand and seek truth. Don’t wait until it is too late!

      • Karolyn

        So you tell me, Nancy, what do we do? Awareness without action is BS. My action is in trying to assist in raising the vibration of the world by not concentrating on what’s bad but concentrating on what I am FOR, What exactly do you propose? Keep bitching about everything? What good does that do? I sign petitions, write my congressmen, vote and do anything in my power in support of what I believe. What else can be done?

      • Karolyn

        No, Dave, it doesn’t make anyone superior, and I don’t feel that. Why don’t YOU try reading something different for a change, like “Power vs. Force” by Dr. Hawkins. If I am such a bother, you simplly do not have to read my posts. I presume you must really think I and othrs who feel the way I do are just plain ignorant, and I really don’t care. At least I will readily say that I don’t have all the answers. Although, on second thought, the answers really do all lie in people loving each other. Love has everything to do with everything.

      • DaveH

        I wish you could just tone down the love for other peoples’ money, Karolyn.

      • Vicki

        Karolyn says:
        “Whatever. The point is why bother? We can make no difference anyway.”

        If we can make no difference why are you here? Go and control “control” your own little world.

    • hipshotpercusion

      Keep swilling that Kool aid, as they are prodding to the camp.

      • eddie47d

        Jon says ” Why did our Strategic Command not protect the twin towers”? More unsubstantiated theories trying to stoke the fires! How would that have been done with the unsuspecting usuage of commercial airlines? Should our government have had more draconian laws in place at the airports to avoid such incidences ? I think the Patriot Act took care of that.

    • TML

      I agree to the extent that I don’t believe this to be a setup by the government. Until strong evidence shows the contrary, its utter speculation

      • DaveH
      • TML

        I agree DaveH…. good article. Although my comment was more about government involvement as any kind of ‘false flag’ event. Sure there are some strange details surrounding the event in Colorado, but it must be admitted that it’s mere, and utter, speculation. The government will indeed, without question, try to capitalize on the tragedy to try and finally push their agendas through. But we should fight those policies with the same time tested reason that has held them off continually, and not succumb to wild accusation about government stings which can take away credibility from those with the pro-gun argument.

      • DaveH

        While indeed there is no proof of Government complicity, and maybe never will be, Governments do have a long history of False Flag Events, and as Freedom-Loving citizens we should all be aware of such common deceit by Sociopathic Leaders who know no bounds of morality when it comes to what will best feather their own nests.
        For instance, this book details the events before and after the Pearl Harbor attacks, which prove to any reasonable person that FDR was lying to the American public in order to join the wars for his own and his fellow leaders’ benefit:
        http://mises.org/books/pearl_harbor_greaves.pdf

      • DaveH
      • DaveH
      • DaveH
      • Nadzieja Batki

        The scenario of Aurora, CO will be so muddied up with the presumed months and years that the trial will be prolonged that not even the stagers themselves will remember what was done.

      • TML

        DaveH says, “Governments do have a long history of False Flag Events”

        This I don’t deny whatsoever.

        DaveH says, “and as Freedom-Loving citizens we should all be aware of such common deceit by Sociopathic Leaders who know no bounds of morality”

        And of course, the best way to do that is to remain steadfast in principle, rather than letting the emotion from a given event drive us.

        DaveH says, “For instance, this book details the events before and after the Pearl Harbor attacks, which prove to any reasonable person that FDR was lying to the American public in order to join the wars for his own and his fellow leaders’ benefit:”

        I agree about the over-exaggerations that were played, but I hardly think that example is a good one. Pearl Harbor was no false flag event, the bombing on American soil was enough in itself to enter the war, along with Hitler having declared war on us. That, I believe, was the last justified war America was ever engaged.

        Thanks for the links though… good reads

      • DaveH

        We were provoking the Germans long before they attacked us, TML.
        Ditto for the Japanese. I’m certainly not defending either, but if we had stayed out of WWI and WWII, there would have been many fewer deaths, and maybe the Balkin States wouldn’t have ended up under Communist control for 50 years.
        And FDR could have done something about the Pearl Harbor attack (which he knew about far in advance) but instead he let 2400 military personnel die so he could get his wish of entry into WWII.

      • Vicki

        TML says:
        “I agree to the extent that I don’t believe this to be a setup by the government. Until strong evidence shows the contrary,….”

        There IS strong evidence. Not that the government bought the shooters stuff and/or sent him to that theater.

        The strong evidence is that the government made laws in violation of both state and federal Constitutional limits that caused law abiding citizens to travel unarmed. This created a open killing field for the shooter. Just as in the shootings at various schools (gun free zones) it is not a matter of IF but WHEN a criminal (you know, the not law abiding) would make use of such a tempting environment.

        Government stupidity will get innocent people killed just as easily as planned false flags.

  • Dave

    The Facts are that the United States Government is INCAPABLE of Telling the TRUTH, they have been lieing for so long now its become IMPOSSIBLE, just look at the Politician’s on all three sides, nothing but lies, when are THEY going to be HELD ACCOUNTABLE, People VOTE…That is All…

  • Tyrannybuster

    No, his Mother said her comments were misconstrued by ABC and the press. Nice try though. At least everything was spelled properly.

  • Alex

    Wow, Mr Livingston, really?
    Making it a crime to furnish a weapon to a minor or a person under the influence is among “the most stringent guns laws”?
    Not being allowed to brandish a gun while intoxicated is stringent?

    Why is it you gun nuts can never read the large print? “well-regulated….”

    You are as frightened as the slave owning Floundering Fathers, bent on genocide, theft, ethnic cleansing, and forced labor to “build a nation”, who came up with the ridiculous Second Amendment in the first place…..

    • chas

      Alex does it ever occur to you that you are a slave to the Democrat Party. If all of you tha hate the founding Fathers so much and despise all that America has stood for, could you find an existing place that meets your goals and leave us to continue loving America and building it for the freedom of all those who wish it to be their journey in life?

      • Alex

        I am not a member of the Democratic Party.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          No, no – you HAVE to be a Democrat because only Democrats disagree with them. Don’t screw up their paradigm. It makes their head hurt. ;-)

      • eddie47d

        Some of you are unthinking slaves to the NRA when the Founding Fathers had no intentions of allowing massacures in public places such as schools and theaters. The Second Amendment (a good law) is being abused again by extremists and only encourages bad behavior. I wish those who support the ownership of weapons would take the irresponsible owners and irresponsible dealers more serious. How can you attack bad behavior of government when you can’t even police yourselves and yes the NRA covers for you every time.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        eddie47d would advocate throwing the baby out with the bath water!

    • Texan

      Finish the phrase please. Well regulated MILITIA. Not regulated access to small arms like handguns and rifles. To KEEP means not take away and to BEAR means carry while loaded. Couldn’t be simpler. Not only for self defense but defense from govt that has become tyrannical, violating constitutional limits and rights of the people and states.

      • ann

        Yes the Bush Administration made that word tyrannical quite clear.

      • Alex

        Your problem, Tex, is that in order for you to be on equal footing with the “tyrannical government” you would need F-16s, nuclear missiles, and flame-throwers, which, though apparently covered by the Second Amendment, is just not going to happen.

      • eddie47d

        It’s more than sad that the USA who has thousands of nuclear weapons accuse Iran of having them when they don’t even have any. Even Israel has Nukes (about 300) but Iran has no right to defend itself from foreign aggression. No wonder we are so confused about weapons and continually spread false fears.

      • TML

        Alex, “though apparently covered by the Second Amendment, is just not going to happen.”

        And there you have it folks… they openly admit it, and know it, but don’t care.

      • TML

        Eddie says, “It’s more than sad that the USA who has thousands of nuclear weapons accuse Iran of having them when they don’t even have any. Even Israel has Nukes (about 300) but Iran has no right to defend itself from foreign aggression. No wonder we are so confused about weapons and continually spread false fears.”

        I actually agree with this comment. Although for you, its shooting yourself in the foot again with an indirect admission that your fears driving you to support gun control measures because of the Colorado incident are false.

    • Patriot II

      Alex, you ask: “who came up with the ridiculous Second Amendment in the first place”

      Since you are so Ignorant it was People with brains who had the ability ot think further than their nose. Of course it is hard for some people to think with their heads so far up their A_ _
      it cuts off their Oxygen supply.

      • Alex

        Patriot ill—Back to school for you! Reading Comprehension! I did NOT ask “who wrote the Second Amendment”! Please reread that passage. Thanks!

        Also, “Patriot” is not a very good thing to label yourself. Patriotism is a virus which leads to serious mental illness. When the same SS officers Reagan claimed to have been “victims {like the} victims in the…camps”, were stabbing babies in front of their mothers, they were being patriotic!

      • http://Internetexplorer Ray

        Patriot
        There is a cure for almost anything now, but there’s no cure for ignorance such as displayed by Alex……

      • http://dontknow mike

        oxygen deprevation is not that bad for dems

      • DaveH

        You’re telling Patriot — “back to school” — Alex? After making this ridiculous statement earlier? — “You are as frightened as the slave owning Floundering Fathers, bent on genocide, theft, ethnic cleansing, and forced labor to “build a nation”, who came up with the ridiculous Second Amendment in the first place”.
        And there we have it, Folks, the logic of a Liberal.

      • Alex

        DaveH—Seriously?

        Explain how theft, genocide, ethnic cleansing, and forced labor were NOT used to “build” this nation. You may think that those things are alright, or otherwise excuse them retroactively, but to deny their historical reality is to live in a state of delusion (and I have read enough of your posts to make that quite likely).

        That thing that Tom Jefferson was yacking about between slave auctions, that Man Infest Destiny thing, is a cover-all term for exactly what I spelled out.

        The Germans had a word for it, too: Lebensraum.

      • DaveH

        There have always been immoral people, Alex, especially in Leadership. Nothing has changed. But apparently you still advocate slavery, because the Progressives (of which you are no doubt one) think nothing of helping themselves to other peoples’ money earned from voluntary transactions with their fellow citizens. And money is time and labor.

      • DaveH

        And there’s little doubt in my mind, Alex, given your Progressive rationalization for helping yourself to other peoples’ money, that you would have been a slaveholder if you had lived in those days.

        • Jeff

          More people after your money, Dave? Who are you anyway, a Rockefeller?

    • John Woodbury

      People who lived in the thirteen colonies that is who fool. Britain became such a monster that we fought two wars to rid ourselves of them, and the Founding Fathers did not want a repeat. It is time for all you liberal fools to start reading real history. Of course you will not because it contains facts that are not PC. If Obama wins another four years I hope your ilk will enjoy the fruits of your stupidity. In every totalitarian state the useful fools, like you, are the first to be missing.

      • eddie47d

        This issue is more about mass killings by civilians against other civilians and those who lived in the 13 colonies would hardly approve our our new found behavior or the abuse of the Second Amendment.

      • DaveH

        The mass killings had nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment, Eddie. They are simply the actions of deranged people who would find a way to do their deranged deeds with or without gun laws. But their deeds are much easier to initiate knowing that foolish people have disarmed most of their law-abiding victims.

      • eddie47d

        I didn’t know they had so many deranged persons back in those days Dave H. I won’t be looking that up because it could be true.

      • phideaux

        “I didn’t know they had so many deranged persons back in those days Dave H.”

        Well eddie since you consider all gun owners to be “deranged” I guess there were lots of “deranged” people back then.

      • eddie47d

        Never said that but since you are being defensive maybe you are one of them.

    • theresa

      Only the uneducated can misunderstand the meaning of the 2nd amendment. So here is some basic education for any one who might think we should have gun control.

      First of all….OF The PEOPLE, BY the PEOPLE, and FOR the PEOPLE….
      That means that the PEOPLE do the regulating of the MILITIAS.
      Remember we do the REGULATING..

      definition of regulate – 1. to control or direct according to PRINCIPLE, rule OR law. 2. to adjust to a particular specification. 3. to adjust a mechanism for accurate and proper function. 4. to put or maintain order. (once again, by the PEOPLE)

      definition of bear – 1 to hold up; support. 2. to carry from one place to another, transport. 3. To carry in the mind, harbor. 4. to transport at large; relate. 5. to have a visible characteristic. 6. to have as a quality; exhibit. 7. to carry in a specified way; conduct. 8. to be accountable for, assume. 9. to have a tolerance for; endure. 10. to call for; warrant. 11. to give birth to. 12. to produce; yield. 13. to offer; render. 14. to move by or as if by steady pressure; push. 15. to have relevance; apply. 16. to exert pressure, force or influence. (a. to force oneself along; forge. b. to endure something with tolerance and patience.) 17. to extend or proceed in a specified direction.

      Synonyms of bear – endure, stand, abide, suffer, tolerate, withstand.

      All of this is done by the PEOPLE and done WELL.

      • http://dontknow mike

        and— a 4 legged furry animal with anger management issues if approached unarmed could cause death or disfigurement

    • Power To The People

      Sounds like Alex prefers a more comfortable place in Germany in the 1930′s. With more people like you we may very well have that here in the not to distant future.

    • TML

      Alex says, “You are as frightened as the slave owning Floundering Fathers, bent on genocide, theft, ethnic cleansing, and forced labor to “build a nation”, who came up with the ridiculous Second Amendment in the first place…..”

      I actually agreed with your first couple of sentences that such things like intoxication are not stringent. However, your last comment has got to be among… not only the most anti-American… but the most hypocritically ignorant, and down-right stupid comments I’ve heard. Genocide? Theft? Ethic cleansing? You clearly have no clue about the founding of this nation, and it would seem that it is those who advocate total gun control as those most frightened.

      • Alex

        Wow, TML….it’s never to late to get a GED. Check it out.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        I think that anyone who doesn’t like the country our forefathers gave us should LEAVE! You have NO right to take it away from the rest of us!!! Go find a country that fits your vision! There are plenty of them!!! This is the “Land of the free and the home of the brave”!!! The rest of us need to be willing to protect it with our lives! The enemy has invaded!!! Get ready!!!

      • Vicki

        And there are so many countries out there that they could choose from. Most of them matching what they claim to want here.

        Makes you wonder why they stay. Oh probably cause here they are hoping to be among the elite. What was it Stalin or Lenin said about “useful…”

    • DaveH

      The Liberal Alex says — “Why is it you gun nuts can never read the large print? “well-regulated….””.
      Why is it, Alex, that you Liberals do not understand the “large print”?
      What “well-regulated” meant to our Founders:
      http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm

    • Vicki

      Alex writes:
      “Why is it you gun nuts can never read the large print? “well-regulated….” ”

      Why is it that you liberals can never understand the large print?

      • Vicki

        I hear an echo :) I didn’t read all the way to the end of the thread or I would not have posted what is obvious since daveh already had.

  • Stan

    People who don”t believe Government conspiracies have occurred throughout history,and are happening now,are merrily rolling along into slavery.This country has gone down a great deal in my lifetime(65 years),but especially the last four.

    • DaveH

      But, But, the Progressives told me that there were only Angels in Government.

  • angelwannabe
    • Nancy in Nebraska

      Absolutely astounding! Here’s a link to a copy of the article that’s easier to read.
      http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news617_batmanwhohow.html

      • Vicki

        Really interesting conspiracy theory. So where is the tape from the security camera on the corner of the building?

  • Marlene

    With the UN and Liberals all looking for an excuse to disarm honest Americans, it’s no surprise that James Holmes has given them yet another excuse to try to take away our guns and destroy the 2nd Amendment. Had there been an audience member, or two, with a concealed weapon and a permit to carry such, they could have saved many lives and removed Holmes from his crazy, mixed-up world, if indeed he is crazy and not pulling the usual criminal, drug fueled scam. If he is sane, he deserved to die, on the spot, and saved twelve good lives. It took Holme’s mother long enough to think of that ‘mentally ill’ excuse for her son. Any port in a storm, wouldn’t you say?

    • Virginia

      Right On!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

    One writer proclaimed that the city of Aurora didn’t allow firearms, concealed or otherwise, but many CCFL holders came forth and said it was not true because the State of Colorado controls CCFL permits. And that the theater was to blame for the lack of firearms in the hands of the customers.

    • Karolyn

      I believe I heard that in NC it is illegal to carry a firearm into a place you have to pay to get into.

  • angelwannabe
  • Tom Cook

    This is a perfectly believable possibility when we consider the pathological entity that nests in our White House and his bagman attorney general who is a cowardly little (expletive deleted), but a total criminal.

  • angelwannabe

    Posted same content three different times and no posts???

    • JeffH

      angelwannabe, “$hit happens”…I’ve experienced the same problem a few times. At least they’re not under permanent moderation like 47D’s are.

      • angelwannabe

        Nah jeffh, the post never came up, as if it was under moderation, it was a link I posted. When I hit submit, (on my screen anyway) the post completely disappeared all three times,__Had the post come back with it being under moderation, I never would have said anything about it

      • JeffH

        angel, I’ve had that happen also. I did send an email to PLD to address it and my comment was posted later. I’ve also done the 3 times only to have all 3 show up later too.

        eletter@news.personalliberty.com

      • angelwannabe

        Thanks Jeff, I noticed about an hour ago, two of the links showed up… soooo,__ I just thought the article presented a different side of Bobs article, and was important_-take care

      • JeffH

        angel, you too, Always enjoy your presence here fellow patriot.

    • phideaux

      angel, sometimes a post with links goes to moderation. If there is nothing amiss the post will show up. It is frustrating when it happens but as JeffH said it sometimes happens to us. Sometimes it just happens also.

  • Svengali

    Hypnotists know that persons cannot be made to do something against their will but the situation they are experiencing makes all the difference. A woman that would not strip in front of a crowd only needs to believe she is preparing for a shower. Covert operations select from military and university campus. Placing a person in trance as a Manchurian Candidate who believes himself to be the Joker in a Batman movie and who plays role playing X-box type killing games would commit just such an atrocity and then have no memory to reveal the handlers. Yes, this could be the work of rogue govt program.

  • grey mccormick

    Very plausible. When the government stoops so low as to kill people for their political agenda, we are no longer living in the “land of the free”. A Congressional investigation must be immediately initiated. The psychiatrist’s testimony will be critical. Cannot wait to see if the District Attorney, a government agency, attempts to prevent Holmes’ defense from accessing his own psychiatric records.

  • fish

    This is clearly a “FALSE FLAGG OP”– This Nazi government will stop a nothing to “Disarm to CONTROL”. This “JOKER had to have had trainning, No civilian would have this knowledge.

    • eddie47d

      Are you saying there aren’t thousands of civilians who own weapons who couldn’t have pulled this off? Most who own weapons say they are fully prepared and without the government helping them. I’d say you are contradicting yourself.

      • DaveH

        Eddie’s typical circular logic.

  • carol johnson

    Like this, I always thought that the BP oil spill was also much too convenient.

  • tg sherman

    When Obama & family give up their gun protection I will think about my GUN!!! He wanted that job & the risk that goes with it! A cop doesn’t carry a gun to protect you! He carries the gun to protect himself! “Think about it”

    • eddie47d

      It’s obvious you want the President to be more vulnerable to assassination so the country could fall into turmoil quicker. Is someone stalking YOU?

  • mark

    Right everything is a lie-filled conspiracy except of course for this webiste. Everything in the world is propaganda except for Personal Liberty Digest. What a pathetic, cowardly, self-serving world view.

    • John Woodbury

      We, for the moment, live in a free country; so, there is nothing stopping you from not reading this if you dislike it so much. Do not let the door hit your brains on the way out, have a good life.

    • DaveH

      You are “pathetic”, Mark.

      • Dave67

        For DaveH to call someone else pathetic…. Pot meet kettle

      • DaveH

        I was using Mark’s word, Dave67. If you weren’t “pathetic”, you’d have noticed that.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      If as you say,” everything in the world is propaganda….,” then your posting is also propaganda.

  • mnyshrpknvs

    Being a Psychiatric Nurse, maybe his mother should have shown more concern by getting him committed Karolyn. It only takes two signatures from family members to do so, and could have saved this from happening. Also, many do not want to think outside the box, and believe that our government, as well as anyone in the U.S. would be capable of a conspiracy plot to sacrifice innocents for an agenda. Just look around you. In your neighborhood, city, state, country and the world. Look what so-called civilized humans are capable of doing to others out Lust, Greed, Pride, Envy and Wrath. Our government is no exception. They are more likely due to the fact they can hide their actions in the cloak of laws which help to keep so called “Classified” Information out of site from the public, as well as anyone else they want to hide it from. Also, they have the money. OUR money, to use to finance any sort of program they want. And if you think their reach does not extend into criminal organizations that can be called upon to carry out unsavory acts, your gravely mistaken. Its widely known they use Private Contractors for all kinds of “Legal” programs, why wouldn’t they hire criminals as Private Contractors to carry out “Illegal” programs that are not to be traced back to the government. If you think our government is not capable of such acts, then your eyes have been shut for a good many years. Maybe they had a hand in this, maybe they didn’t. But do not dismiss it. Do your own investigating with an open mind.

    • eddie47d

      Then you must be fully aware of the need for better mental health care in our country. Turning mental patients loose on the streets 3 decades ago is something else that backfired and should be corrected. A years worth of mental health care is far wiser than letting one with such problems live a continual life of troublesome behavior.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Then you must be fully aware of the need for better mental health care in our country”.
        Yes Eddie. I become more aware of that every time I read your comments.

      • Alex

        Thank Ronald Raygun. At least in the state of California.

      • eddie47d

        ….and Dave H once again buries the issue deep into cyberspace where no one dare talk about it. Maybe Dave is hiding HIS mental illness?

      • DaveH

        So, you’re admitting that you’re mentally ill, Eddie?

      • eddie47d

        Speaking of circular and Dave still doesn’t get it!

  • Theodore Gager

    PLEASE!…RELEASE THE REAR EXIT PARKING AREA SECUITY SURVEILLANCE VIDEO TAPES AND SOPENA THEM AS EVIDENCE! Please Lord, justice is what we need right now to help us on the path to healing….

  • Guy Rich

    The article is another example of non-sequitors, It starts out alleging the this tragic incident is a false-flag, then says that Holmes recieved a 26,000 a year grant from the U.S.
    Government. Then JUMPS to the CIA MK Ultra operations.
    Now I agree we suffer under an Oligarchy that is truly evil.
    However I must say that WE THE PEOPLE need to study our Constitution carefully.
    We MUST educate our Military and Police personnel on the Constitution which they have sworn to uphold and defend.

    • Publius

      I have no trouble connecting the dots that you call non-sequitor. In fact, these allegation are more plausible than any other. But neither do I disagree that the people must understand the Constitution in order to be able to defend, preserve and protect it from all enemies both foreign and domestic. Just because someone suggest a conspiracy is possible as a theory or probable when supported by some evidence does not ever mean the person who says “conspiracy” is a nut-job. Who are the domestic enemies of the Constitution? Would you say our founding fathers were suspicious of conspiracies against the Constitution enough to add this phrase to oaths of office?

    • Tommy V

      Thats why the Organization ‘Oathkeepers’ was formed !!!!
      If your not aware of it go to ‘oathkeepers.org. ….. founded by Stewart Rhodes..

  • http://Personellibertyalert Paul

    Interesting article on a warning by the FBI about a possible movie house shooting back in May. Then taken back off the web. Is this a possible part of a false flag operation? Read for yourself and ask yourself this question.

    • eddie47d

      Because there is a movie (Gangster Squad) that was to be released in August and it shows a movie theater massacre. It raised red flags but you know Hollywood also has the freedom to put out anything they want no matter how repulsive. Gangster Squad will now be released in early 2013 and the theater scene may be taken out.

  • John W Bletsch

    This was too well planned and executed to be the act of one deranged person. Police said that he had bought a ticket for the movie and no one was suspicious of an armed and armored person wearing a gasmask entering the theatre? Get this image: Holmes weighs maybe 160 and he was fully armored with body armor, helmet, gasmask, weapons including a Remington 870 shotgun, a M16 type semi auto rifle with a 100 round ammo snail drum mounted, two Glock 22s and spare magazines and ammo for carried weapons. He would have had to have help getting through the crowd and yet no one remembers seeing him enter thus combat loaded. Maybe Holmes did purchase a ticket, but he then was the inside person to open the emergency exit for the attackers. He went out that emergency exit and waited in the car as he had been programed to do and is taking the fall for the entire act. The attackers are still at large to committ another attack, likely already planned. This is domestic terrorism and how it works. This is how the government is planning on disarming lawabiding citizens. Fast and Furious is in America for this reason only.

    • jopa

      John W B: Your post is so ridiculous it’s almost funny.You should not just rely on Fox news for your information.It is totally bass ackwards.

      • DaveH

        I take it that you have so valid information to refute his assertions, Jopa?
        Or is adolescent name-calling and ridicule all you have to offer?

      • JeffH

        jopa’s source of “valid information” comes from Jerry Springer, TMZ and the National Enquirer.

    • mark

      Yeah right, maybe Obama did it. All these ludicrous ideas of course have zero proof. The proof against the actual perpetrator on the other hand is overwhelming. Therefore according to much of the thinking on this site, including that of its creator and the author of this article, is that the Holmes is innocent or a dupe – and that other folks who we have zero proof against – actually did it. You guys would all operate great in a court of law. You would have let everyone at Nuremberg go free and and arrested US officials instead for carrying out the Holocaust. What a sick, irrational, and cowardly contempt for historical and contemporary reality. You’re almost as demented, I did say almost, as Holmes himself.

      • Texan

        I’ve actually read most of the comments. Aside from the name calling i don’t see anyone suggesting that Holmes is innocent. I do see some questioning whether he was alone, how he was funded, how it happened conveniently to support gun control just as UN Small Arms Treaty came up, how he had no history or motive, how he was saying he was the Joker, told police about his apartment being wired to explode, can’t remember what happened and looks drugged and confused. Where are the video tapes of the exits and parking lots? How did the police show so quickly yet were seen waiting outside while shots still fired inside. Why were two gas masks found so far from each other? Who were the two with black backpacks who ran off? What about the ambulances and lack of scene control with cars driving away? What about his father, Robert Holmes, involvement in the largest bank fraud investigation in history getting ZERO mention. It just ain’t that simple.

      • DaveH

        Mark says sarcastically — “You guys would all operate great in a court of law”.
        And yet makes a most ridiculous unfounded indictment of the commenters.
        A typical hypocritical Liberal.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        Check the photos in the link provided by Phideaus at the beginning of this discussion. The person who showed up in court is NOT the person they claimed they were looking for. Two rather obvious differences are the nose and the eyebrows. There are others as well.

  • ann

    IT wasn’t allegedly!!!!!!! You really have balls to even write that word. The guy is guilty
    as sin. I wonder if your family got shot and killed in that MASSACRE you would dare say
    such a lamebrain statement.

    • Karolyn

      In this country, no matter what the circumstances, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty; hence the use of “alleged.”

      • Alex

        Correct, Karolyn. Unfortunately, the Teabaggers blather on and on about the Constitution, but have precious little understanding of what it means.

        People like Ann would have been the first ones burning “witches” in Salem!

      • Marlene

        Is it ‘alleged’ when there are dozens of eye witnesses? Why are you sticking up for the killer anyway? Is it ‘alleged’ when he almost immediately confessed to his bloody deed? In his case, using ‘alleged’ is a joke. You do seem to want to argue with the majority all of the time, no matter what the subject.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          They’re standing up for the killer because the killer is NOT a killer but a tool of the communist left that wants to use MKUltra, psychoelectronic mind control and fluoride in the drinking water to throw the US into a state of slavery controlled by the Illuminati, Catholics and Liberace. Liberace’s dead, you say? You poor, poor deluded person! Go back to sleeeple, sheeple.

          *laffin*

      • Karolyn

        Just stating fact, Marlene, something that seems so oftenn to be absent in many blogs.

      • mark

        Well no one on this site every uses the world “alleged” when it comes to their ludicrous and demented accusations against President Obama.

      • DaveH

        Mark, Alex, do you guys ever have anything factual to contribute?
        It seems that your comments mainly consist of personal attacks and other emotional tactics. Do you think you are making Progressives look good? I think not.

    • nc

      Ann, you must remember that this is the same site where a CONTRIBUTOR the other day referred to it, not as a massacre of 12 people, but as a shooting where there were “several killed”! He was writing in support the gun nuts! Me thinks they are doing it again and again and again!
      A “false flag” or a nut with guns who “needed” them like a hog “needs” a note book!

      • truesoy

        nc;

        …but don’t forget this is the site where gun nuts congregate.

        Sincerely,
        Truesoy

      • DaveH

        No Truesoy, this is a website where people come to discuss Principles of Freedom, but as part of that Freedom must put up with numerous nonsensical comments from Progressives.

  • http://httpaol.com sean murry

    it sure smell of staged by the goverment it has a lot of questions to be answered.

  • http://www.facebook.com/hbeeinc Paul Day

    HAHAHAHAHA!

    This is a perfect example of what scared little girls you all are. An adult would look at this even and think, “Hm. Seems like a dozen dead people at the hands of psychotic MIGHT have something to do with the guns used to kill them.”

    Frightened little girls, however, would come up with some elaborate conspiracy that threatens their right to pretend they’re off in the woods planning an armed overthrow of the government and not, repeat NOT, getting drunk and playing Brokeback Mountain.

    How about the personal liberty to go to a movie and not die? Anyone concerned about that?

    • Monitor

      No. You’re the little girl. You silly little girl. Na-na-na-na-na-na.
      Please bring your discussion level up from name calling and pathetic associations that live in your mind.

      • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

        I’m sorry I used “little girl”. Does “whiny, paranoid right wing idiot” work better for you?

        It’s contemptible to turn Aurora into some self-serving political conspiracy.

    • TML

      Paul Day says, “An adult would look at this even and think, “Hm. Seems like a dozen dead people at the hands of psychotic MIGHT have something to do with the guns used to kill them.”

      The adults actually understand that the guns didn’t walk in there and pull their own triggers. Adults understand that it has more to do with the decisions of a determined psychotic, that could not have been prevented by stricter gun laws, and that the best line of defense was removed by strict gun laws which disarmed law-abiding citizens in the theater from the means to protect themselves.

    • DaveH

      The “whiny” little Liberal Paul says — “An adult would look at this even and think, “Hm. Seems like a dozen dead people at the hands of psychotic MIGHT have something to do with the guns used to kill them.”
      An “adult” would look at this and think — “Hmmm, Progressives blaming the actions of a human being on an inanimate object?”

      • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

        You’re right. There were no guns involved. We should blame everything except the guns. They played absolutely no role in it whatsoever. And when the promised “armed revolution” begins, there won’t be any guns then, either, I guess.

      • Vicki

        freelarrysinclair says:
        “We should blame everything except the guns. They played absolutely no role in it whatsoever.”

        They (guns) played the role of the patsy. The killer could have used a knife, explosives, gasoline and other tools but chose to use what just happens to be 3 of the most useful tools of self-defense. Funny that.

  • Dave67

    Sorry Bob,

    That dog just won’t hunt. There is not UN mandate that supersedes US law, never has, never will. I know the right love to strike fear in the gun nuts minds but this is all to get more money for Wayne La Pierre’s NRA and for people to purchase more guns. Obama has received a “F” from the Brady Institute for gun control and the only thing he has done on guns is to expand where you can take your guns.

    Sell the fear somewhere else…Most people know that a determined individual can get hold of all the guns and ammo he wants and there is nothing to stop a massacre like Aurora. That is the unfortunate price we pay for being in a free society… These things happen.

    It is troubling though that it is more difficult to buy a car than it is to buy a gun in this country, it is also troubling that we are sold fear on a daily basis from you, the corp media, right wing media and left wing media. We are the most fearful country on the planet it seems.

    To minimize the gun violence in this country, we need sensible gun control laws, education to have people respect guns for what they are, further education to teach people the first answer to resolve a conflict is NOT to pick up a gun.

    Obama is not coming for anyone’s guns… The record just doesn’t support you there.

    “Many people believe”… Classic Fox news double talk for “I planted the story to ratchet up fear, then when people start talking about the fear I started, then I can say many people believe”

    Here is Colorado’s Gun Law:

    Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No
    Registration of rifles and shotguns? No
    Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No
    Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No
    Handguns

    Permit to purchase handgun? No
    Registration of handguns? No
    Licensing of owners of handguns? No
    Permit to carry handguns? Yes (concealed)
    Purchase:

    There is no state permit required for the purchase of any rifle, shotgun or handgun. Dealers are required to keep a record on the retail sale, rental, or exchange of handguns. The record shall include the name of the person to whom the handgun is transferred, his or her age, occupation and residence, and the make, caliber, finish and serial number of the handgun, and the date of the transfer and name of employee making the transfer. The record book shall be open at all times to the inspection of any duly authorized police officer.
    Before a gun show vendor transfers or attempts to transfer a firearm, he or she shall require that a background check, in accordance with the national instant criminal background check system, be conducted of the prospective transferee, and obtain approval of the transfer from the Colorado Bureau of Investigation through a licensed gun dealer.

    It is also unlawful to transfer a firearm if any part of the transaction takes place at a gun show, unless a licensed dealer first obtains a background check on the prospective transferee. This does not apply to firearms defined as antiques, curios or relics under federal law.

    A Colorado resident who is otherwise qualified can purchase or receive delivery of a rifle or shotgun in a state contiguous to Colorado, so long as the sale fully complies with the legal conditions of sale in both states and the purchaser and seller have complied with federal law applicable to interstate transactions.

    Strict??? I don’t think so…

    • Alex

      Very good.

    • Norm

      Dave67
      It’s nice to see a ray of reality in the blackness of paranoia.

      • Patsy

        Wait a minute. Isn’t it the lack of gun restrictions in CO that anti-2nd Amendment gun control advocates and UN Small Arms Treaty want to change? Never let a good crisis go to waste. I’m waiting for the Reichstag event so martial law can be imposed. So many are ignorant of history in this country they are clueless what has followed removal of guns WITHOUT EXCEPTION in history. Before rushing to judgment let us consider the context in which this terrible event occured, consider all the possible motivations, look at the culpability of those involved and gather all the evidence. How many gun owners do not commit such atrocities?

      • Dave67

        Patsy,

        Can you consider the idea that Homes just might me nuts? Not here… Everything is a dark conspiracy put forth by people who want to get all 100′s of millions of guns in this country. All led by the head of the anti-freedom movement, the Kenyan born Muslim… Funded by George Soros…

        Do have have it right?

        Oh and Patsy…

        BOO!!!… That scared you didn’t it?

        • Patsy

          You’re on a roll Dave. Is that the best you can do? Try putting together an argument like the others to counter the inconsistencies and answer the questions. Did you hear, James Holmes father, Robert Holmes, was scheduled to testify in a few days after the slaughter as an expert witness who designed the software to catch bank fraud that traced trillions of dollars to personal bank accounts in a big investigation? No? Why not? Not a word. That’s weird. Instead, you are scared of the possibility that the conspiracy angle might be true and can’t bear the thought. That is why you give your panic response. BOO right back at you.

          • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

            Why bother with the obvious, sensible answer when you can make up some convoluted conspiracy theory based on innuendo, half-truths and paranoia?

      • eddie47d

        Those on the right side of politics have never let these tragedies go to waste either. The gun dealers send you all love and kisses.

      • Dave67

        Patsy,

        I can do better… Trouble is Bob should be able to do better than this nonsense. But fear is what Bob trades in…

        Especially this article… I wish we could put more energy to bettering the country than this crap Bob puts out.

      • mark

        Patsy , you guys have been waiting for that Reichstag event for 3 and a half years now. It has never happened, it will never happen. Not even in Obama’s 2nd term after he is reelected. By the way the Reichstag fire which Hitler used to suspend all democratic liberties in German occurred less than 1 month after he came to power. Like Mussolini and Franco and all fascist even communist dictators, Hitler move with immense rapidity to end German democracy. This was never a gradual process as contributors on this website repeat falsely over and over again. Hitler moved with lightening speed to eliminate all free press, competing political parties, and civil liberties for the German people. This is the historical record which even high schoo students of German history all know. But this big lie of gradualism is repeated over and over again on this site.

      • Vicki

        Dave67 writes:
        “I wish we could put more energy to bettering the country than this crap Bob puts out.”

        So why are you here? Go visit dailykos and put your energy to work bettering the country.

      • Dave67

        Vicki,

        I come here to get my beliefs challenged. I hate it when everything is a “yes, you are so right” fest like you wish to have.

        After I get done with the 3 stooges, i feel so much better about my liberalism. But the likes of DaveH, Jay and JeffH are masters kf lying about progressives and liberals and what they have done for this country.

    • DavidL

      Any response Bob Livingston to Dave67?

      • jopa

        Dave67:I did consider many of the people that follow the conspiracies as a little odd and in need of mental evaluations.The show that Jesse Ventura had on TV was entertainment for some news for others.The writers of these tales are mainly looking for an audience or maybe they also believe this crap.Takes all kinds to make this world crazy, unique and interesting.

    • mark

      Even the UN laws that the U.S. Senate did ratifiy, the U.S. proceeds to violate repeatedly with utter contempt regarding such treaties as totally irrelevant jokes. A perfect example is the UN treaty against torture that the Senate ratified and the Bush admin constantly violated in Iraq and Afghanistan with its waterboarding, extraordinary renditions, Abu Gharib, Guantanamo, etc. Or the UN treaty against intervention in other countries affairs which is the CIA s entire reason for being. The US has never once honored a single UN treaty that it has ratifed, so why would it do so with the non-existent Small Arms treaty. It will never be ratified and if it was it would constantly be violated by the U.S. gov’t and U.S. citizens. This is our historical record as a nation. Just ask American Indians how faithful our gov’t and citizens have been to living up to Senate-ratified treaties. This entire made-up controversy is a complete joke but good for the NRA campaign to massively raise donations from from all the scaredy cat, wet-their-pants gunowners,

      • Dave67

        Mark, there is no more scared person on the planet than a conservative. Bob Livingston, Michael Savage, Sean Hannidy all have a fertile ground to get the nuts on the right all riled up…

        These people are the most easily led and follow blindly to any conservative goal which judging by the record, seems to be a greater concentration of wealth at the top, deregulation to take better advantage of the system by those at the top, decrease in education, increase in money for prisons and to convince people to vote against their economic interests by convincing them that is liberals who got us into the mess we are in when its been mostly right wing corporatists that have taken hold of the Gov.

      • DaveH

        Dave67 says — “Mark, there is no more scared person on the planet than a conservative”.
        Sure Dave67. That explains why the Progressives are always whining about the need for more Government Control. Feed us, clothe us, shelter us, give us Free medical care. Waaa, Waaa, Waaa.

      • Dave67

        DaveH,

        Once again thinks he knows something about Progressives and Liberals when in reality, he knows zip…

        He has nothing to add, so he mis-characterizes me and what liberalism is… Nothing new from the mises.org/Koch Brothers tool.

      • Dave67

        TML,

        Dave67 says, “An Armed society is not necessarily a polite one.”

        Can you give any examples of data to back up that idea? There is a reason why these kinds of tragedies never happen at a gun range or other place where people are known to be armed.
        ——————-

        There are not much more armed societies than the United States of America. Anyone could have a gun on their person at any time. Does that stop gun violence? Nope… planned or crime of passion.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/01/11/20-deadliest-gun-states-from-mississippi-to-arizona.html

        Look at the incidence of gun assaults per 100K people. States with “liberal” gun laws like SC and TN.

        I used to work for the crime reporting division for the FBI back in the 1980′s… I saw the statistics… Texas also executes people at a higher rate than other states… Look at their gun assaults… They are in the high range so the idea that everyone having guns means less gun violence is absolutely false.

        As far as registration and tracking, you are correct, it would not have prevented the CO event but can help to solve who commits crimes of this nature.

        We as a population treat our guns like toys, which speaks responsibility that we both agree is needed.

        I can’t tell you how many dumbazz NRA member, rednecks in VA got into their trucks with their guns and went hunting drunk… This is another example of the lack of responsibility we have and the lack of respect we have for guns.

      • DaveH

        Well, here’s your chance to explain to us, Dave67. What exactly do you stand for? I mean besides fabricating facts, adolescent manipulative tactics, and pestering Freedom Lovers.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        DaveH obviously knows more about progressives than you know about concervatives Dave67.

      • JeffH

        Progressives and progressivism…everything you need to know.
        http://freedomlessons.net/freedom-101/progressives-and-tug-o-war/

        “There have existed, in every age and every country, two distinct orders of men—the lovers of freedom and the devoted advocates of power.”
        ~Robert Hayne, 1830

      • Dave67

        DaveH,

        I stand with the people who were against slavery (not conservatives, liberals/progressives)
        I stand with the people who were for a women’s right to vote (not conservatives, liberal/progressives)
        I stand with the people that worked for civil rights in the 1950′s and 1960′s (not conservatives, liberal/progressives)

        Unless any of you have proof of conservatives pushing for any of these three issues… Do you?

        Social Security is a great thing, Especially what its done for seniors

        http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-money/2011/09/16/perrys-monstrous-lies-about-social-security/

        I stand for an end to the ridiculous war on drugs, freedom of women to control their reproductive health, equality, fairness, responsibility…

        Gov has its jobs, Business has its jobs….I do not see Gov has the great evil, only when it gets hijacked by big business interests as it has since 1980.

        You DaveH are a mises.org hack… I’ve read the site and it is complete theory and the “free market”? It doesn’t exist when you have countries of different Gov styles and currencies… So if you believe that the middle class in this country’s wages should go down as a result of the Chinese who pay their workers 30 cents on the dollar while the CEO set continues to make 400 times their wages… feel free to keep that BS position.

        It just does not work here in the real world.

        But continue to spin your spin DaveH, its all you got.

    • TML

      Indeed, the problem is more closely related to the Theater being designated as a “gun-free zone” by owners of the property. A designation that no criminal would adhere to.. only law-abiding citizens would.

      It’s the call for more strict gun laws in the face of this tragedy that we are against. As even you said… a determined individual would find a way… it is the price of a free society that things like this happen. But the price doesn’t have to be as much, if law-abiding citizens were not disarmed with unreasonable laws, and most importantly, by restrictions from business owners. This however, should also not be a law that forces acceptance of carrying weapons on private property. That will always be the decision of the property owners.

      • Dave67

        TML,

        No, that is not the problem… The problem of gun violence in this country is our attitudes towards guns and violence in general coupled with an ease to get them. The attitudes need to change… laws can only do so much.

        We are a scared population that is also narcissistic….

        Canada has more guns per capita than we do yet a fraction of the violence… So it is something to do with this country’s makeup and what we are sold in the media.

        No gun law that could be passed could have stopped what happened in CO. Trouble is with events like CO, people will use for their own political agenda. Whether it is to pass stricter gun laws or like in this case to put forth a conspiracy that this is a way for Obama to come and get your guns… Its ridiculous.

        We need to have a national discussion about all of it but the hardened ideologs on each side won’t allow the discussion to even take place around the fear we are sold, our narcissism, out attitudes towards guns and violence and the ease in which guns are obtained.

      • TML

        Dave67,

        I agree with most of your comments with the exception of two distinct ideas.

        1.) You say, concerning my comments, “No, that is not the problem…”, but offer not reason why that would not be part of the problem. I believe that my point in this matter is rather obvious, and heavily disagree that it isn’t at least part of the problem. There is a reason why such tragedies never happen at say… a shooting range. I do agree that many in the country should change their attitude toward guns in this manner. Indeed, laws can only do so much… and many of them only make the situation worse. “Gun-free zones” being one of them.

        2.) The ease at which law-abiding citizens, or “criminals”, may obtain firearms is not the problem. If you removed such ease, a criminal will always find a way to get them. We see this idea even in the so-called drug war, where determined criminals still get a hold of dangerous drugs despite them being illegal. Laws which would make it harder to obtain firearms will only affect the law-abiding citizens, for the very obvious reason that they abide by the law… criminals do not.

        The discussions should, I agree, be about changing attitudes about gun, to be driven less by the fear of your fellow citizens arming themselves. No law regarding the ease of obtaining firearms would have changed the scenario for a determined criminal. It is certainly our attitudes that must change, to allow our fellow citizens to protect themselves anywhere they go.

      • Dave67

        TML,

        Gun Free Zones are a funny concept… and in this country, they simply are laughable… The biggest gun free zone was Washington DC. Guns were illegal so there was no gun violence right? Of course there was and alot of it… That is because you can easily transport guns from VA, WVA and MD.

        Now do I want every holstered up to go out? No…of course not…

        That is where our attitudes need to come in. We are a scared, greedy society that desperately wants attention drawn to itself. Its a bad combo…I have no problem with guns, the collection of guns and hunting as long as you eat what you kill. People need to stop being afraid all the time. I have traveled all across this country, SE DC, S. Chicago, Compton, All 5 boroughs of NYC, Miami, New Orleans… None of these places are as scary as we are sold by the sensationalist media

        I think we need to have better laws around registration and tracking firearms. The ATF needs to be disbanded… They are just a bad org altogether and we need to start over. We need to end this failed war on drugs too… Its called personal responsibility and if you don’t know that drugs are bad, then I can’t help you…Just take responsibility for your dumb decision. Take the money piece out of the drug trade, much of the gun violence in cities drops tremendously. I do not see any need for large capacity magazines or “cop killer” bullets that need to be legal and on the street.

        WE need to take our lives back… I miss the days where communities looked out for one another, when you can let your kids walk to school without fear… It all boils down to what kind of country do we want have. Do we want to look for a boogeyman behind every bush? I know I don’t. I want to continue to live my life and travel thew world without being scared.

        • harryinaz

          Dave67,
          While I disagree with your gun-control position, you are absolutely right about disbanding the ATF and ending the failed “war on drugs.” I heartily agree with your emphasis on the necessity of personal responsibility.
          One final thought, Dave. A Gun-Free Zone is a Defenseless Victim Zone.

      • Dave67

        Harry,

        An Armed society is not necessarily a polite one. What happened in CO, would not have been prevented or lessened if everyone in the theater was armed… What most likely would have happened is more deaths, not less because most people do not deal with situations like CO and most are not trained properly on the weapons they do have. The Smoke canisters caused mass confusion. More guns would not have helped it would have had the opposite effect.

      • TML

        Dave67 says, “I think we need to have better laws around registration and tracking firearms.”

        Registration and tracking of firearms would not have prevented the incident. The man was, for all intensive purposes, a law-abiding citizen when he purchased them, and no amount of tracking and registration could have told us what he was going to do. To think in terms of, ‘had we known he bought these we could have stopped him’ is mere wishful thinking that turns every law-abiding gun owner in the country into a suspected ‘terrorist’.

        Dave67 says, “An Armed society is not necessarily a polite one.”

        Can you give any examples of data to back up that idea? There is a reason why these kinds of tragedies never happen at a gun range or other place where people are known to be armed.

        Dave67 says, “What happened in CO, would not have been prevented or lessened if everyone in the theater was armed… What most likely would have happened is more deaths…”

        Perhaps, but I would bet the opposite. Any bullets flying back at the assailant could have neutralized the situation. Your ideas of a completely incompetent populace which would be slinging bullets in every direction along with the assailant, just isn’t a realistic scenario… one that has never happened to provide supporting evidence. This is not to ignore that this situation was going to be bad no matter what, since the guy was decked in full body armor, along with his weapons, and smoke canisters as well. But to think that armed civilians throwing bullets back at an assailant would cause more civilian deaths, just is not realistic.

        Dave67 says, “…because most people do not deal with situations like CO and most are not trained properly on the weapons they do have.”

        This is where the term is coined, “Gun control is hitting your target”. I must, however, agree that those who carry concealed should have plenty of training with their weapons. Like you said, that is personal responsibility… which I certainly agree with that philosophy.

      • DaveH

        One comment Dave67 is saying — “there is no more scared person on the planet than a conservative”.
        In another Dave67 is saying — “I miss the days where communities looked out for one another, when you can let your kids walk to school without fear”.
        Do you even screen your own comments, Dave67?

      • Vicki

        Dave67 says:
        “An Armed society is not necessarily a polite one. What happened in CO, would not have been prevented or lessened if everyone in the theater was armed… What most likely would have happened is more deaths, ”

        Pure speculation / conjecture.

        I bet that 12 people would have liked to take a chance rather than being shot like fish in a barrel.

        Had your scenario come to pass at least the dead would have died like men. Fighting for their community instead of scared rabbits gunned down while running away. (Noted exception to the heroes who did die as men by covering their girlfriends / loved ones with their own body because that is the only defense the STATE or theater allowed them.)

    • http://none Charlie

      Dave67,,,some good info but no state law reference … If a so called “Paranoid” person has been saying for years that the “CEG” corrupt evil government is indeed the “CEG” and it proves out later to be “Facts”, then , is that Paranoid person still paranoid ???
      The two basic “Law” documents in America are The Holy Bible and The Constitution, the two basic “groups” that have been and are still corrupting these two basic Law document are the “CEG” and The Judeo-christian churches ,,, now be careful before you answer because one must clearly define what is the CEG ? What is a Judeo-christian church ?
      Now the question ? am I paranoid by writing the above ? or is it “Truth” ???

      • Dave67

        Charlie,

        The Bible is not law #1. The Constitution is the basis for our laws…

        As far as CEG goes… What holds that at bay is public accountability and a free press that gives us the information to make good decisions and we participate in our responsibility as a citizen to vote.

        Unfortunately the corp media has fallen down on the job. We used to have thousands of independent news sources with their own investigative debts… Now 90% of what we see, hear and read is owned by 5 Multinational media conglomerates. TV news used to be a non-profit public service. Not we have infotainment like what we get at the morons like CNN, FOX, MSNBC… they are just too happy to cater to gov sources and not challenging them depending on their ideological slant.

        So that leaves us as the American people. Both parties have screwed this country, Corporatism runs rampant…The church is just another business. Christianity, Judaism, Islam are all in the power and money game just like GE, Exxon-Mobile etc…That is why Gov should not be colluding with big business interests to undermine this country. Its corporatism that has created the CEG. Not Socialism

        We need to hold the media and politicians responsible for giving us bad info, lying and undermining this country all for big monied interests.

        The record of Obama does not support this article’s contentions… Pure and simple. I have serious issues with Obama and things like TARP 2, expanding the Patriot Act and skirting Congress with Libya. But this article is pure nonsense.

      • http://none Charlie

        Dave67,,, thanks for your answer,,, what it said to Me is that you are a heathen on the way to hell in a hand basket made in china , try to have a pleasant trip… during the mean time , We will Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing … Acts 2:38 …

  • firefight

    This one fact remains. In every contry where the people were systematically disarmed, they lost their ability to resist the tyrany inflicted upon them by their political leaders. In most of those countries, subsequent to the disarming of those citizens, a systematic genocide took place to “cleanse” that country of those who did not and would not assemilate into the governing leader’s plans. This is not a theory, it is a fact. This one irrefutable fact stands. Our country and our second amendment were put in place to HALT the very thing and things that are now happening. We are in the hands of a tyranical government and they have lost all fear and conscience about doing whatever they want to us. Their many attacks againt the “bible hugging gun lovers” as they call us, has made many of us self conscious to the point that we are actually afraid to go up against them for fear of proving them right. When the revolution begins, those who rise up will be called every name in the book by these Communist/Marxists from anti-American terrorists to every kind of traitor imaginable when in actuality, they are the traitors. It will take the strength of mind and conviction that was once displayed by those founding fathers who went up against the mightiest, strongest Socialist government on the planet at that time, the British Empire. They took up arms and let King George and his soldiers know that this nation would NOT be just another British group of colonies. Something that the people of Africa and Australia could not do because those indiganous people did not have firearms and were not able to defeat a superior force. Look what the British did to the Aboriginal people of Australia. Do you think for one minute that the Brits are so civilized? We still can still take our country back!

    • mark

      What your are saying here is a massive distortion of historical reality. Lots of countries sharply restrict citizens from owning guns and at the same time practice multi-party democracy, freedom of speech, religion, assembly, right to a jury trial, etc. Current-day Great Britain, Japan, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Belgium, France, Austria, etc are just a few examples. You can restrict gun ownership and still have full democratic freedoms – and massively less guns deaths and violence. All the above-mentioned countries today are proof positive of this.

      • DaveH

        Nine times out of ten you can cross the street without looking both ways. Does that make it smart to cross that street without looking both ways?

      • DaveH

        In other words, Mark, your logic is Fallacious.

      • mark

        So is your analogy, DaveH about crossing streets which is a way to avoid making a serious attempt to refute my point that numerous countries that have the most restrictions on gun ownership are free societies that have massively less gun deaths and violence. The connection between gun ownership and political freedom is largely a false one.

      • Dave67

        Mark,

        DaveH lives perpetually in fear as many do here… DaveH is too busy trying to impress people with his mises.org crap that he tries to pass off as fact to actually deal with issues as they happen in reality.

        He is a typical conservative, always out to blame someone else for his failings in life

      • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        Disingenuous and misely DaveH also a new word, fallacious.

      • DaveH

        One comment has Dave67 saying — “DaveH lives perpetually in fear as many do here”.
        And in another he is longing for those days “where communities looked out for one another, when you can let your kids walk to school without fear”.
        Are you projecting, Dave67?
        You sure aren’t very consistent.

      • DaveH

        And my analogy, Mark, was meant to show the fallacious nature of your reasoning. My example was every bit as ludicrous (and meant to be) as your statement.

      • DaveH

        It’s like saying, Mark, that the lack of violence among Monks is proof that gun controls work.

      • DaveH

        Different cultures of people exhibit different behavior. But I did show in 2 of my earlier comments, that in the US (same culture) violent crime has dropped at the same time that gun laws among the states have been relaxed.
        How would you Progressive Followers (or shills) explain that?

      • DaveH

        Ohh. Look. The Progressives are ganging up on me.
        Mommy, Mommy, they’re calling me names!

  • John Woodbury

    http://anoncentral.tumblr.com/post/28109989079/colorado-massacre-linked-to-historic-bank-fraud Please follow link to see why James Holmes did what he did any why many think this was a false flag. If true, it is a really good two-fer.

  • Mike

    This sounds to me to be another example of absurd paranoid conspiracy theory. If these statements are true Americans are in serious trouble. The CIA must be held accountable for their covert operations. We still have a constitution with a Bill of Rights. When the Second Amendment was passed the young country was still threatened by foreign powers (England) and hostile Native Americans. There was still a possibility of insurrection against the federal government. There was no organized law enforcement but only militias consisting of individual citizens with muskets and rifles to defend themselves and their familiies. Let us not lose control of our rights as American citizens. Contact your senators and representatives and demand
    an investigation of CIA operations.

  • http://Swiftriver Ronnie conway

    Bill Clinton/Janet Rreno
    Osoma Oboma/Eric Holder/Hillary Clinton
    The answer is easy———–VOTE. RON PAUL !!!!!!!!!

    • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

      AMEN! Ron Paul just wants to kill the sick and the poor and who needs those leeches anyway!

      • DaveH

        And your evidence is where? Oh, I forgot, Liberals don’t need no dam evidence for their fabricated facts.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          “”Who’s going to pay if he goes into a coma, for example?” Blitzer asked.

          After explaining that government would step in under a socialist or communist regime, Paul elaborated:

          “That’s what freedom is all about: taking your own risks –” before being cut off by loud cheers by Tea Party supporters.

          Also, he would cut Food Stamps by 63%, S-CHIP by 44%, Medicaid by 35%, and WIC by 33%.

          There’s your proof. I back up what I say. I don’t take stuff out of context like “you didn’t build that”, “Americans are lazy” or “if we talk about the economy we lose”. That’s the GOP.

      • DaveH

        Those who want to know, who the real “leeches” are, should read chapter 7 of this Free book (courtesy of Mises.org; Thank you, Mises):
        http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

        I’ll give you a hint, they think they represent Progress, when in fact they want to turn the clock back to the primitive days of Serfdom.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          I hope it’s got stuff about Jews and the Illuminati! Ron Paul’s newsletter was always good for stuff like that!

      • Vicki

        freelarrysinclair says:
        “There’s your proof. I back up what I say. ”

        And that is why you have so many links to cites in your posts.

        We are not yet impressed by your (lack of) valid arguments.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Oh. I’m sorry. I didn’t know you were too lazy to look things up. (offensive comment removed)?
          http://www.ontheissues.org/ron_paul.htm

          - Voted NO on establishing nationwide AMBER alert system for missing kids
          - NO on adding 2 to 4 million children to SCHIP eligibility
          - Churches used to take care of ill without insurance.
          - Repeal weatherization assistance for low-income persons
          - NO on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies

          http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/13/news/la-pn-ron-paul-gop-debate-20110913

          I can’t wait for you to tell me that I haven’t given you links to sites that you agree with. That’s a fun game!

      • Vicki

        freelarrysinclair says:
        “Oh. I’m sorry. I didn’t know you were too lazy to look things up. (offensive comment removed)?”

        Interesting Ad hominem attack. followed by 2 actual cites. You are trainable. Good. Now I wonder if you can be trained to skip the ad hominems? It took a few months but I was so there is hope.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Brilliant! Chastising someone for an attack by attacking!

          Now, all you have to do acknowledge that the facts I gave you were true and re-adjust your thinking to incorporate those facts.

    • mark

      That’s no answer either since he has zero chance of winning.

  • boyscout

    Add one more to the list of “lone gunman” incidents that run through our history. No way depraved individuals (starting with J W Booth?) would have been involved with conspiracy, Ay ? The civilized state of American politics simply wouldn’t allow for such shenanigans. Right ? But, IF it were a conspiratorial operation, one cannot really blame O for anything but possible complicity, as the puppeteer’s strings reach much higher than that stage.

  • ROGER, Irish-Canadian LIBERTARIAN

    The most “telling” action by Holmes, is his reporting to the Police about his “booby-trapped” apartment . What would have been his MOTIVE for doing that, if he really was this wanton deranged killer?

    My conclusion is that obviously the FBI or other govenment ciminal organization were involved and would not want the police to be harmed

    Holmes was therefore “coached” to do that

    • mark

      Oh yeah, it’s obvious Roger. Zero proof but it’s obvious.

      • DaveH

        What proof have you offered for any of your fallacious comments, Mark?

    • mark

      Well DaveH at least I don’t keep citing ad nauseum that Austrian School of Economics website that you are thoroughly addicted to and brainwashed by. I took a look at some of the articles and books on it – totally ridiculous propanganda that ignore completely the rules of academic inquiry and research standards that all major monographs by reputable university pressess are subject to.

      • Dave67

        mark,

        DaveH knows they are fact because he says they are… Alas he has done no thinking on his own so he just posts general corporatist propaganda as if he is smart and germane to the discussion at hand.

      • DaveH

        Yeah sure, Mark. And I’ll bet you read them with an open mind. NOT.
        But feel free to refute specific articles, instead of making broad generalizations and personal attacks.

      • DaveH

        Yet, Dave67, I put you to shame every time we debate. How’s it feel to be beat by somebody with no thoughts of his own?
        And they’re called references, Dave67. I present them because I don’t expect people to just take my word for anything, even though I’m not a dishonest person like you are.

      • DaveH

        You are so ridiculous, Dave67. Anybody with any decent education can see that.
        Dave67 says — “he just posts general corporatist propaganda”.
        I am for Free Markets, you know those things you say have never existed as if that somehow makes your case? Corporatism is the polar opposite of Free Markets. So once again I have shined the light on your ignorance.

      • Vicki

        What I have noticed is that neither mark nor dave67 have offered any counter arguments to the links offered by DaveH

        Nor have they offered any links to backup any (most?) of their assertions on subjects other than their derision of the links provided by DaveH

      • Dave67

        Vicki,

        Have you bothered to look at DaveH’s links? They are excruciatingly long winded accounts how self contained free market models are the way to go. Trouble is we don’t live in a self contained free market model with everyone playing by the same sets of rules and the same currencies.

        If we listen to DaveH’s BS, your pay goes down because China has no unions, manipulates their currency and their leaders are not accountable to their people.

        Then, Dim bulb DaveH tries to tell us that it is possible to have the gov out of markets all together even though its countries, not corporations that make trade policy. It is the Gov, not corporations that set safety and minimum environmental regulations.

        You confront DaveH with these realities, he short circuits, blames liberals for everything, says i want big Gov and has a link to the book of mises.org.

        DaveH is a flim-flam man

      • Vicki

        Dave67 says:
        “Have you bothered to look at DaveH’s links? They are excruciatingly long winded accounts how self contained free market models are the way to go.”

        Yes and they have to be. The subject can be rather complicated.

        Dave67: “Trouble is we don’t live in a self contained free market model with everyone playing by the same sets of rules and the same currencies. ”

        Which is EXACTLY why the writings that DaveH links to are so long winded. A self contained free market model needs only 2 equations.

        supply vs demand

        honest vs dishonest.

        Government need only bother with the 2nd as in keeping the transactions honest.

        Now the above 2 equations will work fine for any free market but it takes long discussion to show WHY they work. Hence the long winded accounts.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      Good point, Roger. I thought the same thing myself. It just doesn’t make sense. Why set-up a booby-trap, with the intention of inflicting, hopefully, devastating damage on the unsuspecting-trasspassers, and then warn them that you’ve set-up a booby-trap. Illogical!

  • Ted

    I’m sorry, but I think that you’ve taken a dive off the deep end this time, Bob. The anti-gun lobby has a history of calling for a anti-gun legislation any time a gun crime hits the headlines. Back in 1978, when the mayor and a supervisor of San Francisco were assassinated, there were huge cries to toughen gun registration laws, although as a supervisor and former cop, the killer was the last person to be denied a gun.

    You’ve overstpped the bounds of logic this time, my friend.

  • RichE

    Wow! You really hate Obama that much to have conjure up such an insane conspiracy. Your hate has corroded you mind.

  • Jason

    I thought he bought a ticket, went in and watched the movie for a few minutes, then left via the emergency door, leaving it propped open slightly. He then went to the car and loaded up with guns, ammo and armour and returned through the propped open door. Not impossible. Probably not even that tough to do without raising suspicion. I question whether someone in his apparent mental condition could pull it off so cleanly. I’m also curious about tipping off the cops to the bombs in the apartment. He obviously wanted to kill, why spare the cops? I think that was all set up so it would be a lock-tight case with all the extra evidence at his apartment. Everything is just so tidy, isn’t it?

    • Clorox

      Need time to clean out that apartment to make sure nothing could be traced back to the handlers. More evidence that fits conspiracy rather than refute. What would be reason for warning police? If glove doesn’t fit … Another lone patsy

  • JT

    Wake up people! This whole website is part of Commie Plot to take over our country! I know for a fact that that “Bob Livingston” himself is really a Commie plant (his real name is: Rubinov Levistonski), sent here years ago to set up a website to identify real gun toting Patriots so when the Commies take over they have all of your names and adresses and you will all be the first to be “eliminated”! Hurry! Spread the word before they take down this post! I’ve just signed my own death warrent but you will still be alive to pass on the news about the “Personal Liberty Alerts” website and all their nefarious activities whose express purpose is to root-out all freedom loving Americans so they will know WHO YOU ARE when the time comes for their take-over of out country!

    • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

      Well, of course “Bob Livingston” is a commie front. I’m working on the blog post that will blow his cover…if he doesn’t have me neutralized first.

      • DaveH

        The whacked Progressives are out in full force today. Or are some of them just multiple personalities of the Flashman operative?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Or it could be that all the progressive ladies here today are all, at the same time, experiencing, severe-manstrual-cramps. That might explain their emotional and irrational outbursts.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Bravo, Jay! A well-reasoned argument filled to the brim with factually based, well documented observations! I’m so glad that you don’t call people names because I know how much people look down on that here.

    • http://gravatar.com/elsmomem Laws of motion

      Really?!?! A libertarian website is a part of a “Commie Plot” to take over our country? Can you show ANY evidence of this or is this just your idea of a sense of humor? I do believe if Bob Livingston were to “neutralize” someone, you two would be low on his list. It’s not fair to pick on the mentally unstable.

      • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

        I will prove this beyond a shadow of doubt. I have access to NSA documents and private emails of the Illuminati. I will blow the lid off of so-called “Bob Livingston”, you silly sheeple!

      • http://gravatar.com/elsmomem Laws of motion

        I’m looking forward to seeing the results of your attempt. Do you have a time frame for this project? Or was your boast just a claim made to stir up doubt with no intentions follow through? I believe that if you are going to make such negative comments about someone you should be able to back them up to have any credibility. I do not believe boasting about accomplishments you’ve yet to make is a very effective way of making a point.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Soooo…why are you reading this site which is nothing about unproven theories and assumptions?

      • http://gravatar.com/elsmomem Laws of motion

        Fancy that, no answers, instead you question my motives for being here. I guess that answers my questions about the validity of your claim.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Nor did you answer mine.

          Thanks for damning yourself with your own criticism. That’s precisely the point, though. You pretend to go on the “attack” and refuse to question your own motives and beliefs. It’s just a blind, Pavlovian to the bell of any conspiracy theory that fits in your purview.

          Bob Livingston: THEY’RE GOING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR GUNS
          You: (Salivates, blindly believes and attacks anyone who disagrees as part of the conspiracy)

          And then you have the self-deception to believe that you’re the free one.

          Good luck with that, Skippy

      • http://gravatar.com/elsmomem Laws of motion

        I have no problem answering your question, but as that was not the subject of our conversation, I refuse to allow you to drag us off point. So here’s a fair deal: You answer mine and then I’ll answer yours. You know, finish one conversation before beginning the next? Novel idea, I know, especially when it doesn’t suit your purpose.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Then, yes. I will prove that this website is a false flag and is actually run by communists trying subvert this country and you are all dupes.

          Colin Powell blew up the Pentagon, btw. Did you know that?
          http://youtu.be/-C7yixd2kLU

      • http://gravatar.com/elsmomem Laws of motion

        I am dumber having watched that. I cannot consider that an adequate answer to my question and I can waste no more of my time with this feeble attempt at conversation. Good luck with your conspiracy theory.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Everything that was said in that video is true. It is the whole reason that wingnuts believe that Obama is a communist. If simply knowing someone like Bill Ayers is enough convict a person, then Powell must be convicted. You might recall that Liz Cheney tried to argue that The Supreme Court were all on the side of al Qaeda using the exact same logic.

          That conspiracy theory is no different than yours. Period. Given that your idiocy has been proved for what it is – idiotic – you’ll poo-poo the proof, crawl into your safe room and lick your wounds.

          The only truth you care about is the one you make up.

      • DaveH

        I am so glad you Progressive characters post on this website. I’ve been trying to convince people for years what Progressives are really all about, and now you guys come along on PL and make my job much easier.
        Thank you.

      • mark

        Since when is evidence necessary on this website by either the posters or the article writers? Please, have you read any of the stuff on here lately?

      • JeffH

        Seems Mr. Livingston’s PLD is becoming more of a thorn in the butt for those seeking to destroy freedom, liberty and America’s soveriegnty.

        Fortunately Bob recognizes that to respond to such accusations would be exactly what the unknown posters like GALT and freelarrysinclair want…attack with unfounded accusations and put Bob and PLD in a defensive position. Another classic Marxist ploy…as Alinsky instructed…

        “The organizer knows that the real action is in the reaction of the opposition.”

        “A Marxist begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of the proletariat by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and finally the last stage — the political paradise of communism.”

        ” An organizer working in and for an open society is in an ideological dilemma to begin with, he does not have a fixed truth — truth to him is relative and changing; everything to him is relative and changing….”

        “To the organizer, imagination… is the dynamism that starts and sustains him in his whole life of action as an organizer. It ignites and feeds the force that drives him to organize for change….”

      • DaveH

        Thanks, JeffH. It’s pretty obvious that they’re operatives by their unswerving illogical zealotous comments, no matter how long they’ve been here. Even the most brain dead of Liberal Followers would have learned a little by now.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Oh boy, listen to free-larry-curly-moe lay down the logic. Impressive! Like laying asphalt with a soup ladle. But give the miscreant some credit, as he sure as hell gives it a good attempt. Now now, no jokes everyone, or he might change his avatar back to the goofy-space-alien. We don’t want that. Take us to your leader…

    • Patsy

      Oh no! I’m locking the door right now and calling 9-1-1. You’re a nut, you are.
      P.S. – you’re not serious, right? LOL. Get help.

      • mark

        It actually makes perfect sense. Once you tell everyone everyday for years that EVERYTHING that happens is a leftwing conspiracy, it is only a matter of time before contributors come out of the woodwork to claim that this very site and its originator are leftwing conspirators. This is inevitable when all you sell morning, noon, and night is the Republic of Fear and Paranoia

      • DaveH

        Did Bob say anything about left wing, Mark? Do you have a guilty conscience?
        My Senator, John McCain, for instance, is very weak on 2nd Amendment rights, and I’m sure you’d consider him a Conservative, since you Liberals know nothing about true Conservatism. Gun Control is not a left wing thing. It’s a Big Government thing.

  • Betty

    Flashy, I want an even playing field. Your bring your mouth and liberal reasoning to a fight with a criminal. Maybe someone with some fire power can save your arse!

    • DaveH

      That would be a shame.

  • GRITSgirl Patriot

    MUST READ a very revealing book written in 1996 by Texe Marrs called Project L.U.C.I.D. described as nightmarish reality. Under Project L.U.C.I.D. there is no such thing as being “off the grid”.

  • truesoy

    A reply,
    …..just for Bob;

    I can’t dispute nor support your story about what or how this might be some sort of a conspiracy, although it seems a bit stretch of the imagination. However, I do have problem with your assertion about this grand conspiracy taking place between the UN and the United States in an effor to take our guns.

    It has become a national pastime of the republican extreme right to conjure up all sorts of “Obama’s Conspiracy” that oviously only the ‘right’ can stop and restore the United States to some sort of a ‘pristine past’.

    Among the most outrageous of these ‘fairy tales’ taileredmade for the ‘faithful and faint at heart’ is the ‘Obama is coming for your guns’ campaign. If I didn’t know any better I would think this was a marketing ploy devised by the NRA and the gun manufacturers to prop up business.

    The UN gun treaty, as you know, is a treaty regulating the international gun trade. That is to regulate the transfer/sales/importation from one country to another, you know, things like illegal border ‘gun crossing’ and so on.

    A little truth in your writings will go a long way to enhance your credibility, and although your conspiracy minded fellows in this blog believe all that is there to be say bad about Obama, and/or our government in general, you are re-inforcing a set of false beliefs/misconception, and thus contributing to mislead otherwise good, but gullible people.

    Will you be so kind, then, to explain to them what the gun treat is really about?
    Would also explain to them that neither Obama, nor Clinton has the constitutional authority to abrogate the right of the people to own guns because to do so will need a constitutional amendment that only Congress can make?

    Maybe you could also tell the ‘faithful’ here a little about the U.S. Constitution, and explain it to them, properly; for they either don’t understand it, nor have personally read it.
    If you don’t it, I’ll understand why.

    Sincerely,
    Truesoy

    • Dave67

      I tip my hat to you… We stated…

      Maybe if the conspiracy minded here could put as much effort as they do thinking Obama and the Gov is responsible for every bad thing that happens in the world with helping get the economy fixed in a fundamental way, we can better this country….

      But thats not as much fun is it?

    • NoteToSelf

      Has the real treaty been leaked? I thought we had to pass the treaty to know what’s in it.

    • DaveH

      Full draft of the UN arms treaty:
      http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/full-text-draft-u-n-arms-trade-treaty/
      Do you know, Truesoy, who elects the UN officials?
      I’ve never seen them on my ballots.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      Oh oh, watch out folks, dumb and dumber, truesoy and dave67, are attempting to merge and consolidate their intellectual asses-ts. Its like watching to blind hippos mate.

    • Dave67

      Maybe the genius twins DaveH and Jay can tell us which UN laws trump the ones of the United States…

      Go….

      • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

        Lemme answer for them:

        “Herrrrp…Derrrrp – them one’s that take are guns uhway”

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Perhaps the most suitable example of a UN treaty that would “cut across” rights protected by the Constitution is the International Criminal Court (ICC) statute, you dumbbell, which would create a permanent, 18-judge tribunal with a mandate over every living human being.

        Dr. Charles Rice of the University of Notre Dame Law School describes the ICC treaty as a measure that would “cancel the Fourth of July” by making all Americans subject to trial, in a foreign land, before foreign judges empowered to make “law” according to their whims. This arrangement would recreate one of the key offenses of the British Crown cited in the Declaration of Independence — that of subjecting Americans “to Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws….” How’s that, Nancy?

      • Dave67

        They have nothing Larry and they know it. But they will try and spin something to make themselves look less foolish than they are.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          It cracks up me up to hear them go on about circular logic and name calling when that’s really about the only thing they’re good at.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        I see you are still licking your wounds, dave67.

  • OCalorie

    Look at history! Hitler had every gun register then the brown shirts came in confiscate the guns, leaving the citizens unarmed to protect themselves in 1929. Mao from China did the same thing in 1949 destroying over 700 million guns. History is trying to repeat itself. You take away our guns, you take away the first amendment and constitution. We are the only country in the world who has gun rights left. We have the largest army in the world – the citizens. Don’t tread on me!

    • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

      If you actually knew the history Nazi party, you would see that it’s the GOP that follows the script more closely – destruction of unions, voter suppression and the constant repetition of lies via a monolithic media empire. Are you even aware, for example, of the perversion of democracy in the Michigan state congress? Or the voter suppression law in PA where the GOP admits that there is no voter fraud and that the law was passed to give Romney an advantage by disenfranchising voters likely to vote Democrat?

      I’m betting you don’t. Check out what’s going on in FL. The most important right Americans have is the right to vote. And the GOP is engaging in a blatant attempt to take that away from those who would vote against them. That’s not some convoluted, hidden conspiracy theory. That’s right out in the open.

      So, do me a favor and shut the hell up about Nazis. You literally know nothing about it. If you’d like to, then read Robert J. Evans’ three volume history of Nazi Germany. Then get back to me about this gun crap.

      • DaveH

        It really doesn’t matter whether Nazis (the National Socialist German Workers’ Party) were left or right. What does matter is that they couldn’t have accomplished their destruction of Freedom without the coercive power of Big Government — That Power which Progressives promote:
        http://mises.org/daily/2871

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          If you don’t like America then find some cave in the South Pacific where you can escape big government. I’ll tell you something though – without that big government, you wouldn’t be able to drive to the airport or fly on a gov’t subsidized plane (which would probably crash because there would be no air traffic controllers). You wouldn’t even be able to book tickets over the gov’t created internet. Nor blather on about how much you hate big gov’t.

          You’re a blind hater with no clue about the structure of the country you live in.

      • DaveH
        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Dave,
          1. Stop crushing on me. You’re getting embarrassing.
          2. No wonder you understand nothing. The only place you seem to read is this and mises.org.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Wow, free-larry-curly-moe believes that there is actually a two-party-system! And you want to be my latex-salesman? I don’t think so, buddy. lol…!

      • JeffH

        Jay “free-larry-curly-moe” ROFLMAO! :) Yer killin’ me!

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          HAHAHA! He called me a funny name like a fifth grader! HE WINS!

          That’s really all it comes down to for you, isn’t it.

      • DaveH

        clair says — “no wonder you understand nothing. The only place you seem to read is this and mises.org”.
        Is this like a common Progressive thing or what? They don’t refute anything, they just attack the messenger.
        Is that because, Clair, you can’t find any references to back up your nonsense?

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          You can’t even the name of the person you’re arguing with right.

          What would mises.org say about that?

      • DaveH

        Like a fifth-grader, Larry? Don’t flatter yourself. My 12-year old Grandson makes more mature remarks than you do.
        But, Please, Please, Please keep posting. I can’t think of anything better to wake people up than to have them meet the children who think they know what’s best for the rest of us.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Except that I’ve given you fact and you’ve given me mises.org.

      • Vicki

        freelarrysinclair says:
        “Except that I’ve given you fact and you’ve given me mises.org.”

        Incorrect. YOU have given us your opinion with some proof by bald assertion claims. DaveH at least had the courtesy to provide a cite to backup his assertions.

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          Sure – all from the same place. I can’t wait to post links and have you tell me “That website is liberal propaganda and I don’t accept it”. I LOVE that game!

      • Vicki

        freelarrysinclair says:
        “Sure – all from the same place.”

        More than you have offered.

        freelarrysinclair: “I can’t wait to post links and have you tell me “That website is liberal propaganda and I don’t accept it”. ”

        My proper response should be to provide a cite disproving your cite or at least saying why your cite does not provide evidence of your claim. Try it. Let’s see what you’ve got.

        freelarrysinclair: “I LOVE that game!”

        So lets play.

    • mark

      Both your examples are totally false. 1929? Hitler did not even come to power until 1933. Gun ownership in Germany was historically very low even during the Wiemar Republic era 1919-1933. There were virtually no guns to take away. As for 1949 China this was near the conclusion of a very violent Civil War 1946-1949 that pitted the Nationalists against the Communists. China was a vast armed camp in which both sides had milllions of weapons. No one took away anyone’s guns except from the dead after battle. The Nationalists took most of their guns with them when they fled to Taiwan. Individual Chinese peasants and businessmen never had a massive tradition of gun ownership even prior to the 20th century – as existed in the United States. Both sides armed combatants and security forces only. There was also no freedom in China one either side of this conflicet. The Nationalists under Jiang Jieshi were right wing authoritarians, the Communist were totalitarians. There was no political freedom to lose in China whether one owned a gun or not. It never existed either then or earlier under the Emperors and their dynasties. Learn a little basic history before making such wild and false asssertions that only repeat the constant and fabricated NRA mantra that no one was ever free in history if he or she did not own a gun.

  • Thinking About

    For all who hang on to the conspiracy theory sped some time in figuring out how to stop the terrible tradgedy which has happened in Aurora. Everybody jumps in and declares Obama is trying to take their guns, what happened in the earlier shootings where many lost their lives along with injuries, where those also a conspiracy by Obama. This needs to stop, guns are available to many who do not need possession of those weapons. We have speed limits on our streets for SAFETY reasons. Let the NRA come up with a plan to get this under control, spend some time figuring how to properly sell guns and ammo to the responsible and not cry all the time about somebody trying to take their rights. We have the right to live our lives without having anyone take this away from us. How about a conspiracy to “abort” lives among us.

    • Vicki

      Thinking About fails and says:
      “spend some time figuring how to properly sell guns and ammo to the responsible and not cry all the time about somebody trying to take their rights.”

      We had such a system. Then liberals came along and messed with it.
      What was that system? Jail time for breaking simple to understand laws like thou shalt not steal. Break no laws and you could properly buy guns and ammo cause you had demonstrated that you were responsible.

      Then bleeding heart liberals decided that jail was too mean.

      Thinking About: ” We have the right to live our lives without having anyone take this away from us.”

      Which is rather the point of the 2nd Amendment. Personal and community defense. Stopping those who would interfere with our right to live our lives without having anyone take this away from us using the best tools for the job.

      Thinking About: “How about a conspiracy to “abort” lives among us.” ”

      You mean abortion? We have discussed the PP involvement in that before.

      • Jeff

        Kindly explain the meaning of the phrase “well-regulated” in the 2nd amendment, a phrase that appears in no other amendment.

      • Vicki

        Jeff says:
        “Kindly explain the meaning of the phrase “well-regulated” in the 2nd amendment, a phrase that appears in no other amendment.”

        Sure. Means the same as it would today. A well regulated (that would be trained) militia is needed. So to provide for a militia the people shall not be deprived of access to military grade arms. Thus they may practice and be ready when called to form up for the defense of the community.

        well-regulated
        “It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected.”
        http://constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

  • Ferrosynthesis

    You have just demonstrated why you should be ignored. This is insane. If not, it’s treasonous. Anybody subscribing to this nonsense is either an idiot or willing to take their irrational hate to ridiculous levels. You people are scary.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      But you are a human termiteeating away at freedoms proving that you are more of a danger to people than the gun owners you denigrate.

    • Vicki

      Ferrosynthesis says:
      July 30, 2012 at 9:32 am

      “You have just demonstrated why you should be ignored. This is insane.”

      And you are demonstrating your sanity by reading this anyway?

  • http://priscillaking.blogspot.com Priscilla King

    YIKES

  • Charles Moore

    There was never any chance of this U.N. Treaty on Arms being approved. It had to be ratified by the U.S. Senate.There were 51 out if 100 Senators that wrote Hilliary Clinton on non approval. There was at least 57 Senators who were against it. At least not this year. I doubt very seriously that all of the people mentioned were a part of a CIA conspiracy. If it is tire that there was more than one shooter then the carnage could not be avoided.In fact , I read that the only reason that there wasn’t more carnage was that a magazine Holmes was using jammed. This makes sense as anybody who shoots on a regular basis knows that a faulty magazine or even certain manufacturers of ammunition can cause certain guns to jam even though they are of the same caliber.

    I find it strange that if the CIA or any other Government agency would have have supplied a faulty magazine if they had an Agenda. If there was a few more shooters then why couldn’t they have supplied the weapons?. His Parents hired a Family Lawyer but left him with a Public Defender. Were they giving him any money?One of my Nephews is attending Law School on a Full Scholarship and $10,000 a year in spending money. What part if the $26,000 of the Grant was needed by Holmes etc. He obviously had enough money to rent an apartment because he booby trapped it. Who paid for it?This article doesn’t answer all the questions

  • http://wnd blackratt426

    thats the 1st. thing pop in my mine, was this is a set up…………………

  • http://boblivingston Will

    All you liberal numbnuts pay attention! Who financed this freaking operation?????

    • eddie47d

      Who financed your weapon and ammo stash WILL? I’ll leave out the name calling!

      • willidee

        I did, Eddie! It cost about $600.00, not $20,000.00 !!!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        What a stupid question, eddie!

  • Whembley

    So Eddie, I was sitting right next to you the other night at dinner in that fancy restaurant you frequent and i am sure that no one realized that I was carrying… OH NO, a Glock with zombie killer hollow point ammo. Not one but 10 rounds in the “magazine”. NOT CLIP as so many bozo liberals call them. With 2 additional magazines on my belt. If some Joker came into the restaurant and wanted to make a statement, Would you have wanted me to stand up and protect you or should we just wait until the police get there to take care of the situation? My guess is that the one shot that I take out of the 30 that I am carrying will make the statement.Glad that you enjoyed you dinner. I did.

    • eddie47d

      That will never happen since my wife is an excellent cook and we for the most part eat in. I see some of you are still obsessed with the Luby Cafeteria killing and want so bad to be the hero. Now listen (pay attention) as I have stated before. Every American or anyone in the world has a right to protect themselves from immediate harm. That is a no brainer so stop the grandstanding!!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        What will be your tool of protection when the Police do not arrive in seconds that count when danger comes calling on you and yours?
        You have been counting on “those others” to provide your secure life but there may not be enough Police to keep everyone safe.Your assumption that all persons will be moral may be just an myth.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        So the answer is, yes, eddie. Of course it is.

      • eddie47d

        I wouldn’t want the morals of some of the gun worshipers that apply their nonsense here. Some gun owners are wise and some have an extremely dangerous thought process. Now you sort them out for i already know.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d writes:
        “Every American or anyone in the world has a right to protect themselves from immediate harm. That is a no brainer so stop the grandstanding!!”

        So why do you and others want to deny law abiding citizens the right to carry the best tools for self and community defense?

        I also note that you claim anyone in the world so you clearly understand that means ANYWHERE. Inside the home, out on the street and even in a movie theater.

  • Dave

    Quit funding the thugs in DC. Take away their money and they will fall without a shot.

    • DaveH

      They will just print more money.

  • Dave

    Don’t forget a lot of the people who try and play this off are most likely paid shills for the people who cause the false flag events.

  • Mike

    While this explanation sounds a little far fetched to me, I put nothing past the Obama administration. It is clear that fast and furious was meant to strengthen their argument for gun control, of this I have no doubt. Thankfully there are already enough US Senators on board to make sure that the UN Small arms Treaty can not be ratified. However the danger is not over Barrack Obama is not exactly known for following the law or letting the Constitution get in his way. Also he has some of the biggest crooks in the land in his pocket, US Attorney General Eric Holder, and Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano who claims that gun owners, those who believe in the Constitution, and even ex military are domestic terrorists. I am afraid of thi government, and can only hope we get a new one come November. Otherwise I fear that my self and millions of others will become criminals by no criminal acts of our own, but simply by decree of our own government. I am a hard working law abiding citizen, but if owning firearms becomes a crime, then I guess I will be a criminal. As far as Bloomberg goes he needs to mind his own business, it’s a shame that under his leadership it is more serious offense to possess a 32 oz soda than an ounce of marijuana. So on behalf of all law abiding citizens especially law abiding gun owners I say to Mayor Bloomberg “BITE ME”. Remember that ” a man who would trade a little liberty for a little security will lose both and deserve neither”

    • Thinking About

      Did you think the same thing when the bush adminstration ran the Wide Receiver. Oh, I see, Obama dit this program also. Get over the conspiracy deal, the oly conspiracy I see here is to get lots to believe there is a conspiracy.

      • Vicki

        Wide receiver just proves that President Bush is smarter than the person that currently occupys the Whitehouse. President Bush’s administration worked with the Mexican government. President Bushes administration stopped the program when it began loosing track of the firearms.

        So obama’s administration is dumber than a shrub or evil beyond our ability to comprehend. Or yes.

        For you liberals out there this little bit of blue text below is a cite to backup my assertion that wide receiver was as I state above.
        http://www.theblaze.com/stories/the-5-biggest-differences-between-operation-fast-and-furious-and-operation-wide-receiver/

        • Jeff

          Maybe the ATF needs a Director?

  • Tommy V

    For those of you who doubt that this Colorado shooting was not a ‘False Flag’ I bet you still beleive Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and got off 3 fantastic shots with a bolt action rifle . After all thats the official line of our Gov’t so it must be true….right….????
    Colorado provided a Major distraction for ‘Obama’ and Holder and put the ‘Lefts’ most hated Amendment , the 2nd Amendment under scrutiny……

    • Vicki

      Tommy V writes:
      “Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and got off 3 fantastic shots with a bolt action rifle .”

      He was Russian trained and we all know what good snipers they are :)

  • JON

    Grab ALL the guns and melt them down!

    • willidee

      Why don’t you just move to England? Basic personal liberties are why we came here over 200 years ago !!

      • Dick

        willidee, it wasn’t about guns or ‘the right to bear arms’ – it was about religious freedom, the very thing that many professed Christians on this forum would deny to those practising other faiths. Prayer in schools would elevate Christian worship above all others, and so deny many non-Christian citizens their right to practice their faith freely without favour, “shall make no law…” is one of the most astute and valuable statements in the constitution. A guarantee of religious freedom (and freedom from the accompanying prejudice and persecution) is why hundreds of thousands of people undertook the hazardous voyage from Britain and Europe to America – it had nothing at all to do with guns.

      • Vicki

        Dick should re-read the Declaration of Independence. It rather clearly lists the reasons for severing the ties with England and securing our place as a Sovereign Nation.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        I don’t think dick can read, much less comprehend what he reads.

  • GRITSgirl Patriot

    MUST READ a very revealing book by a former Air Force technology and intel officer written in 1996 titled Project L.U.C.I.D. Under Project L.U.C.I.D. there is no getting “off the grid”.

  • OCalorie

    This is for Feelarrysinclair . . . I do know about the things that are going on and that both parties are at fault, do you? The dems want all people to vote even the non US citizens who don’t have an invested interest in our country. Last election they interview people who had voted in one state, crossed the state line and voted again. What about ACORN 14 districts of fraudulent voting where even dead people voted. What about the 64,000 ballots that was not counted left in a closet in New Mexico? I do know all about the Nazi Germany, I have spoken to many survivors of the war, my relatives in fact who lived through it. Have you researched and interviewed survivors or just taking someone word for it who wrote a book.
    You sound like a liberal who wants all the freebies, to be taken care of, who thinks they are so special that there is a law for us poor dumb folks and no law for you. You better think again my friend and do more studying with an open mind. I have been to China and seen what communism has – they do guarantee people to eat – even 90 year old people who has to work sweeping the streets, the whistle blows, they go and get their bowl of rice, eat it and back to work they go. Under Nazism, communism, socialism all people work until they die unless you are the half percent at the top who is in control.
    Before you start slamming people, you better know what they are talking about and stay on the subject. You liberals like to change subjects to throw people off (because you are off yourselves).

    • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

      There are almost no instances of actual voter fraud in the US. There have been *registration* frauds, yes. You can look to Gingrich in Virginia, Sec’y of State in Indiana convicted of voter fraud, McCotter in Michigan who dropped out because of his registration fraud. Shall I continue?

      The question is – why isn’t the GOP going after this as rabidly as they did ACORN?

      Oh. Right. Because those were all instances of GOP voter registration fraud and those don’t count.

      You are pathetic.

  • Phil

    Interesting brain candy, but not enough evidence to pursue. There are also people that argue freedom and rights are a mere illusion any more, an opiate to the masses. I’d rather focus my energy on improving my own life than try to deal with things beyond my realm of influence.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      So there is an old/new paradox for the Utopians. “There is freedom in slavery.” “There is slavery in freedom.”

      • Phil

        Well played.:)

  • Wyatt

    eddie47d says that the Swiss have strict laws that allow gun ownership . Time he got educated on that . The Swiss require every male between 18 and 62 to be a part of the country’s Military system and be subject to call up for duty at a moments notice much like our national guard and or the old minute men . The government issues them their weapons and equipment to be kept at home so that they can respond at a moments notice should they be called .

    Unlike the big government controlling leftists , Democrats here in the United States , the Swiss trust their citizens to keep these weapons and not shoot each other in the ass for whatever reason . I would suspect that because of this fact alone , Switzerland has one of the lowest if not the lowest crime rates in the world and very few if any murders if any at all by any form of weapon .

    I suggest gun grabbers look at history and take a lesson . When the firearm rights are taken , a dictator is usually behind it and steps in to take control of the nation . Hitler did this as did Lenin , Stalin , Mao , and Castro . You can look it up if you doubt it . Guns put them in power and lack of them by the general public kept them in power . He who has the most andor best guns wins !

    • nc

      Wyatt, the Swiss military is their national guard! They have not armed for national defense against outside invasions in centuries!Their ‘military’ is to guard against revolts within their borders by gun toting crazies like those who congregate here from trying to take over the government because they can’t do it at the polls! Keep your powder dry for the coming revolution!! yeah, right!!

    • eddie47d

      Wyatt the Swiss controls every aspect of those weapons. Now go forth and be truly informed.

    • JeffH

      S

      wiss army size: 400,000 (Source: The Swiss Transportation Troops ) (In 1995 the size of the Swiss army was reduced to 400,000 from 625,000.)
      Swiss households: 2.8 million (Source: Swiss Statistics)

      400,000 full-auto weapons / 2.8 million households = 14 per cent of Swiss households have a full-auto weapon in them. (With the 625,000 figure, it is 22 per cent.) This represents a maximum figure since a household could contain more than one soldier.

      Swiss citizens have full-auto weapons, but all ammunition is strictly accounted for and must remain in a sealed container until the reservist reports for duty.

      Partially true. However, “Swiss military ammo must be registered if bought at a private store, but need not be registered if bought at a range. The nation’s 3,000 shooting ranges sell the overwhelming majority of ammunition. Technically, ammunition bought at the range must be used at the range, but the rule is barely known and almost never obeyed.” (Source: What America can learn from Switzerland is that the best way to reduce gun misuse is to promote responsible gun ownership) In other words, Swiss reservists are free to purchase, possess, and use military ammunition outside the context of direct military service.
      _____________________________________________
      http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/switzerland

      In Switzerland, the right to private gun ownership is guaranteed by law.

      In Switzerland, private possession of semi-automatic assault weapons is permitted under licence.

      In Switzerland, private possession of handguns (pistols and revolvers) is permitted under licence.

      In Switzerland, carrying a firearm in plain view in a public place is allowed, often subject to a valid licence, depending on the type of firearm.

      In Switzerland, carrying a concealed firearm in a public place is allowed only with proof of genuine need and tangible danger, following mental health, criminal record and good character background checks, and after passing a police examination in firearm law and handgun safety.

      Authorities in Switzerland are known to have implemented voluntary firearm surrender schemes, and/or weapon seizure programmes in order to reduce the number of illicit firearms in circulation

      In Switzerland, the total number of firearms destroyed following recent amnesty, collection and seizure programmes is reported to be 19,27078

      In Switzerland, it is state policy to destroy surplus, collected and seized firearms rather than return them to the secondary arms market

      Switzerland Gun Numbers – Civilian Guns

      Number of Privately Owned Firearms
      The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in Switzerland is 3,400,0001

      The rate of private gun ownership in Switzerland is 45.72 firearms per 100

      World Ranking
      In a comparison of the number of privately owned guns in 178 countries, Switzerland ranked at No. 221CompareRate of Privately Owned Firearms per 100 Population – World Ranking
      In a comparison of the rate of private gun ownership in 179 countries, Switzerland ranked at No. 32

  • NoteToSelf

    Holmes has certainly fowled up gun rights for the rest of us.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      He has not contrary to your feelings. In fact he probably has done more harm to the gun grabbers because people have become alert and will be more watchful. It does not mean that we can let our guard down because now the gun grabbers will be more sneaky and covert to get around us.

    • Patriot Awakening

      Holmes was only the patsy used. Check out this video
      .http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToQ8PWYnu04&feature=share

  • http://www.facebook.com/Rssllgtrby Russell Bennett

    Who made the decision To not have security at that theater. Other theaters owned by the same company did have armed secuity that night. A similar case happened in Ari.when a Judge that had ruling against Obama was killed and a congresswomen who opposed Obama on that case was seriously injured.Again there was no security Present.

  • Patriot Awakening

    I just found this link that could explain how the government controls the patsies used in these false flag events. The CIA has had a very long history in Columbia’s drug trade and used this drug as far back as the 60′s. In case the link does not come through, research Scopolamine “The Devils Breath” ,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToQ8PWYnu04&feature=share

    • nc

      Patriot, you right wingers seem to know a great deal about how conspiracies work! How is this for a “conspiracy”? Since you have fellow travelers who know about the drugs needed, the organization necessary and the funding from the Koch brothers and the NRA deep pockets why is it not possible that a right wing conspiracy pulled off the shooting to enflame the weaker minded ones that an attack is being made on their beloved NRA? Just asking?? No use stopping with just one conspiracy when it cost nothing to allege one!!

  • NoteToSelf

    I’m glad you remembered to mention dictators like Hitler, Lenin ,Stalin ,Mao…. who implemented gun control early on in their regimes and then went on to kill millions of their own people. Too few people realize that the right to bear arms has defended against tyrannical governments. From Germany, Russia, China to Cambodia, the cases where that right has been removed show millions dead at the hands of the government.

  • Braxton

    Of course its a false flag operation. ALL part of the gun grab operation of the regime of comrade 0bummer. He can do lots of things with XO’s, but he cant conquer a nation who is armed and ready to blow away the liberals,progressives, gays,marxists, commies and other riffraff that supports the bumbler in chief. 0bumbles will not be able to take over as dictator while our citizens are armed and united. Thats why we have a Constitution and the 2nd amendment. The ONLY way to stop it is to be willing to stand against them at all costs.

  • Patriot Higgins

    What about the flip side. If good people,even one was carrying
    than this would have stopped much sooner. The chance of hitting him in the gas mask (head) in A theatre by his second round would be
    very good

  • GW

    ATTABOY, BOB!!!!! THIS INFO AND LIBERAL APPLICATION OF SODIUM PENTATHOL WILL SET MANKIND FREE!!!! NO MORE SECRET WARS OR FALSE FLAG OPERATIONS AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION OR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE- ROUT THESE RATS OUT AND GIVE THEM WHAT THEY SO RICHLY DESERVE!!!! NO 5TH AMENDMENT PRIVELEGES FOR PUBLIC OFFICIALS CONCERNING UPHOLDING THEIR OATHS OF OFFICE OR CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FROM THEIR OFFICE!!! TIME TO PUT AN END TO THIS CRAP AND THESE “PEOPLE” ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!

  • Smithkowitz

    The Aurora CO. ban along with the other towns that banned carry conceal in CO., were over ruled by state law of CO. SB03-024; this bill states that the issuance of permits to carry concealed handguns is a matter of statewide concern and prohibits local governments from adopting or enforcing ordinances in conflict with this act.

  • http://twitter.com/SilasLongshot Silas Longshot (@SilasLongshot)

    Not to mention the curious discrepancy of his ‘before’ and ‘after’ the court appearance photos. Many don’t believe this is the same person. Find the pics yourself, compare them side by side…..Nose is different, slight bags under the ‘pre’ picture persons eyes, none on the redhead version. Pre pic, the right eyebrow is almost touching the bridge of the nose, redhead, no. Plus all the above in the article.

  • Mary Lee

    You people are INSANE

  • USMC Vet

    eddie47 is an idiot…..Period

    • Alex

      YOU served, or claim to have served in Vietnam. Sorry, but that makes YOU the idiot. A mercenary, willing to kill children because “somebody TOLD you to”!!
      If THAT is not EVIL, what is???
      Better square things with your God or Gods if you have any—no God looks kindly on people willing to kill for pay.

      • Vicki

        We can take it that you frown on PP as well then?

      • VFW

        Really Alex? You forget the draft. 18 year old kids that didn’t want to go get killed by communists to protect Lady Bird Johnson’s rubber plantation from getting trampled. Now you’re calling them mercenary killers for pay. It wasn’t enough to be spit on back then so now you want to do some more. You are garbage. Your mouth will get you in trouble

  • OCalorie

    As I have said before, both parties have voter fraud, and are corrupt. “When the people are afraid of government that is tyranny, but when the government is afraid of the people, that is freedom.” John Adams
    “Those that give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.” Ben Franklin
    “Wherever material progress outruns moral and spiritual progress, the knell of doom is already rung.” W.J. Cameron
    We need people who are not self absorbed, self centered, greedy, that will stand on principles and not be willing to be manipulated or blackmailed. We need honest people and it needs to start with ourselves.

  • Art

    Why do you think they called in the FBI before the blood dried. They want to protect their operation and make sure the evidence is slanted the way they want. Wake up America we are under attack from within.

  • nc

    DaveH, you are so funny!
    If your government is taking all of your money, read Mises.org!
    If your government is entering a new conspiracy every day, read Mises.org.
    If your government is about to hit you with an old conspiracy, read Mises.org
    If you are having trouble with flat feet, read Mises.org
    If you find out your girlfriend is having an affair with your wife, read Mises. org!
    What a life you live!! Not!

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      Poor pathetic nc, hiding his admiration for DaveH behind criticism. How pathetic!

    • Dave67

      DaveH, gets paid by Mises.org… Its clear… even when its not germane to the subject being discussed, its the same link over and over again.

      Jay and Jeff H are part of his admiration society.

      DaveH are a sad bunch, blame progressives and liberals for what conservative corporatists are doing to this country like the Koch Brothers.

      • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        And it’s so easy to wind them up!

      • JeffH

        Thanks to the “pernicious influence of liberal ideas,” progressives are less happy, less generous, less honest and less hard working than their counterparts.

        Author Peter Schweizer talk about his book:

        “Makers and Takers: Why Conservatives Work Harder, Feel Happier, Have Closer Families, Take Fewer Drugs, Give More Generously, Value Honesty More, Are Less Materialistic and Envious, Whine Less … and Even Hug Their Children More Than Liberals.”

        According to author Peter Schweizer “Studies have shown that certain demographic groups that tend to be more Democrat-oriented in their politics tend to be more dishonest.”

        Liberal contributions tend be less compassionate, donating to cultural causes like museums and symphonies rather than human-service organizations that conservatives prefer.

        Conservatives are more generous because modern liberals believe the government should take care of the less fortunate, Schwiezer argues. “Conservatives believe responsibility is a good thing, you can improve your lot in life,” he said. “Modern liberals do not.”

        Schweizer did find one area where liberals were stronger than conservatives. Progressives are more interested in looking for new experiences. They’re more likely to travel abroad and look for diverse cultural opportunities.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Deluded Dave67 actually buys into the two-party system illusion. What a dope!

        • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

          This is the 2nd or 3rd time you’ve said this. Do you have a macro to insert that comment? Please – continue pretending the the same thing over and over and tell us how smart you are.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Eric the red denies being on anti-depressents, yet his comments suggest otherwise.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        free-larry-curly-moe says: Please – continue pretending the the same thing over and over and tell us how smart you are.

        If you insist; “there is no such thing as a two-party system, there is no such thing as a two-party system, there is no such thing as a two-party system…there is no…

  • http://www.facebook.com/gary.mcaleer.10 Gary McAleer

    When will the heart of this problem get addressed? Michael Moore’s an idiot along with the other historically blind, uneducated, unpatriotic traitors.

    This sadistic imbecile Holmes along with the Columbine massacre and a host other insane shootings are all tied to pharmaceuticals! It’s the drugs and the companies who sell them that are destroying the mind and judgment of 100′s of 1000′s of people. Stupid, arrogant, consitution-bashing legislators! They are unfit to lead their own lives let alone ours.

    How many suicides are associated with anti-depressants, when their whole purpose was to prevent them? I keep hearing news reports about anti-depressant related crimes and suicides including Mary Kennedy’s! Its time to call sin by its right name and assign responsibility for the crimes to those who play key roles in their perpetration. And its not the gun makers or law abiding Americans who admire and respect the Constitution.

    Maybe we can regain some lost ground in common sense and oust the real criminals here, from the abortion lovers to the warmongers and the bankers who back them. We need a ten-million-man protest at the White House and Capital Hill showing America’s solidarity against all liars, thieves and murderers who sell men’s lives down the toilet under the luciferian doctrine that presently dominates this nation. It is truly satanic! And its got to stop if this nation is to survive.

  • JeffH

    Agenda 21: Conspiracy Theory or Threat
    http://americanpolicy.org/2012/05/12/agenda-21-conspiracy-theory-or-threat/
    Pay attention folks and educate yourself. UN Agenda 21′s subtle moves towards Global Governance has been going on for 50 years or more and it may be implemented in a city or state near you under the guise of “envoronmental protection”, “sustainable developement” in our communities.

  • JeffH

    FBI has a track record of staging similar assaults, then stopping them at the last minute:

    This is not your run-of-the-mill crime of passion. It was a carefully planned, heavily funded and technically advanced attack. Who might be behind all this? The FBI, of course, which has a long history of setting up and staging similar attacks, then stopping them right before they happen. See four documented stories on these facts:

    http://www.naturalnews.com/035849_domestic_terror_plots_FBI.html
    http://www.naturalnews.com/034325_FBI_entrapment_terror_plots.html
    http://www.naturalnews.com/033751_FBI_terrorism.html
    http://www.naturalnews.com/035757_FBI_terror_plots_false_flag.html

    As you soak all this in, remember that the FBI had admitted to setting up terror plots, providing the weapons and gear, staging the location of the bombings and even driving the vehicles to pull it off! This is not a conspiracy theory, it’s been admitted by the FBI right out in the open. Even the New York Times openly reports all this in stories

    http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html#ixzz2284pMwJj

  • harryinaz

    The shooter’s zombie-like demeanor immediately after the shooting and in court supports the more-than-plausible “Manchurian Candidate” theory. Re: OKC, April 1965, the involvement of the Iraqi officer (Suspect #2) was indeed verified by Ms. Davis and her male partner on the Oklahoma City TV station. They described their investigation and its results in detail on Art Bell’s “Late NIght” talk show a couple of weeks after the bombing. When I called in to Art in June to inquire about the status of the Suspect #2 probe, Art curtly and very uncharacteristically snapped at me that he wasn’t going to talk about it. Intimidated? Also, among the suppressed evidence of Fed involvement was the fact that none of the ATF personnel with offices in the Murah Building were there when the bomb (s?) went off.

  • victor

    when the gov take the guns .millions of americans will die by the hand of the gov,oboma is a lieing cold bl;ooded killer ,islam,commies are the same both are evil , the shooter is not the one who did the killings it was the f b i oboma who killed all those people ,holmes is just a druged up pasty i dont think he killed anyone .

  • Delores Smith

    MR. LIVINGSTON,
    This is an excellent, factual article. Thank you. What a horrific distraction to take away the attention from Eric Holder’s and Obama’s FAST & FURIOUS GUN PROGAM in Arizona. I live in Arizona, and the intent of FAST & FURIOUS was to blame the citizens of Arizona, to take away our guns, and ultimately the guns of all Americans. The plan back-fired. 2,500 numbered guns, without tracking devices, were sent over the Mexican border, into the hands of the Drug Cartel. Fifteen-hundered guns are still outstanding. The guns killed 2 border patrol agents, and more than 200 Mexican Nationalists. When Rep. Issa questioned Holder at the committee hearing, Holder agreed that many more would die, because they don’t know where the 1,500 guns are. Obama invoked Executive Priv., when Issa asked for documents.
    Mr. Livingston. the Arizona shooter who is in an institution, also used a Glock gun. In a black bag that he threw out was lot of cash in a plastic bag. He threw it out when his father asked what was in the bag. Someone found it, and gave it to the police. The shooter did not have a job.
    AURORA SHOOTING: I predict that Eric Holder is going to try to file a federal charge to take the Joker under his wing. (I believe he can do it; a navy man was killed.) The Joker is NOT insane. Everything he did was premeditated.
    Thanks again, Mr, Livington.
    Delores Smith
    Delores109@cox.net

  • liz

    Why do you rightwingers blame Obama or the Democrats for everything that has happened in the last 15 years. The Republicans were in power during 911. Our forefathers gave us the right to bear arms because those were different times. People lived far from law enforcement and they didn’t have a local grocery store a few blocks away. I agree that we have a right to own hunting rifles and hand guns because lets face it, this is a crazy world. However,no one needs an assault weapon.

    As far as Obama is concerned, no one man has the power to run the US government the way you think he does. The reason his policies have not worked as much as we would like is because the Republicans have blocked almost every measure he has tried to put in place. After all if his plan succeeded then he might be re-elected. If in the future a man ever did come to power, regardless of his party, that was able to have such power to persuade the world to do as he pleases, that is when you should be very afraid.

    • Thinking About

      The present Congress now has the record of being the worse one yet, I am beginning to doubt if they could pour water out of a boot with the directions on the heel and someone pointing the directions to them. Talk about a conspiracy, this is the only action coming out of Congress. Thanks or your comments.

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        This congress has got it made when we call them idiots instead of looking at them as a batch of people with an agenda alien to the American people. There’s the states and then there’s DC. They think the states are nothing but a souce of income to them while they do their own things. Since Korea the government has sent Americans in harms way without a DECLARATION OF WAR. Do you think using Holmes to further their agenda is something they wouldn’t do? Man I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Our Founding Fathers established the Constitution for all time, our Freedoms and Liberty for all time.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    Somrthing we all had better realize: The signs of illegitimacy in government is the peoples fear of the government and the governments fear of the people. That’s America today. Would they set up Holmes? Do bears pooh pooh in the woods?
    No tyrannical government ever allowed the people to own guns. Thomas Jefferson said that the reason the 2nd amendment’s there is to give the people the last line of defense from their OWN goverbnment. He should know, the Red coats went to Bunker Hill to grab the peoples guns. We take a lot of things lightly but this has to watched closely. Better to assume the worst from this government and hope it doesn’t come true than be caught with our pants down.

  • Dick

    A lot of you people, the author notwithstanding, need to take a vacation, get things in perspective and forget about government conspiracies. Holmes is a nutcase, nothing more, a very bright kid gone completely off the rails, as often happens in the hothouse they live in.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      Thanks for the advice, Doc!

    • DaveH

      A lot of us people, in spite of the author?
      Do you even know what notwithstanding means, Dick?

      • Dick

        DaveH: yup, I do. Granted, I assumed too much context and missed out too much in my rush; I’ll give you that -
        … notwithstanding [i.e. in spite of, as you like] the author['s views][ being what they are, which is probably why you're here]…etc
        and addressing “a lot of you” doesn’t mean “all of you” – it means what it usually means, “some (unquantified) significant proportion of you”, this being apparent to me because I had read all the posts up to that point.

      • Alex

        Study Mises and you might understand why DaveH is such a tool….

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        So what are you trying to say, Dick, that you suffer from a Narcissistic personality disorder? That you are possessed of a bloated sense of self-importance coupled with a lack of empathy for others. Your comment clearly reveals an exaggerated sense of your own importance and abilities, and no doubt, you spend a great deal of time fantasizing about them, don’t you? People who suffer from a disorder such as yours, as well, have a sense of entitlement, expecting, and taking for granted, special treatment and concessions from others. Paradoxically, individuals with your narcissistic personality disorder are generally very insecure and suffer from low self-esteem. Do you suppose i may have been a bit too rash in my diagnosis, Dick?

  • JeffH

    2016: “Obama’s America” – a must see documentary coming to theaters on Aug, 10, 2012.
    http://2016themovie.com/about/
    About 2016: Obama’s America
    2016 Obama’s America takes audiences on a gripping visual journey into the heart of the world’s most powerful office to reveal the struggle of whether one man’s past will redefine America over the next four years. The film examines the question, “If Obama wins a second term, where will we be in 2016?”

    Across the globe and in America, people in 2008 hungered for a leader who would unite and lift us from economic turmoil and war. True to America’s ideals, they invested their hope in a new kind of president, Barack Obama. What they didn’t know is that Obama is a man with a past, and in powerful ways that past defines him–who he is, how he thinks, and where he intends to take America and the world.

    Immersed in exotic locales across four continents, best selling author Dinesh D’Souza races against time to find answers to Obama’s past and reveal where America will be in 2016. During this journey he discovers how Hope and Change became radically misunderstood, and identifies new flashpoints for hot wars in mankind’s greatest struggle. The journey moves quickly over the arc of the old colonial empires, into America’s empire of liberty, and we see the unfolding realignment of nations and the shape of the global future.

    Emotionally engaging, 2016 Obama’s America will make you confounded and cheer as you discover the mysteries and answers to your greatest aspirations and worst fears.

    Love him or hate him, you don’t know him.

    • jopa

      Jeffh; Good thing your little show is coming to a theater, that way your brother doesn’t have to buy you a TV with his disability check.Does he provide you with air conditioning or is it naturally cool in his basement?You should be so grateful your brother believes in charity and is willing to take in a low life.

    • eddie47d

      Some of have heard all the anti-Obama BS right hear Jeff. Thanks for saving us the $10 movie fee.

  • angelwannabe

    So Amusing are the people who stick up for those who want to further regulate and eventually try take our guns…They’ve got all the excuses they’re masters told them to say…..

    “Wah wah wah, if we had more gun rights these massacres wouldn’t happen”….Really, your sure of that____I’d lay ya two to one there is mind control involved…Lets see, any Mcguiver types with an intent to do harm, could construct homemade bombs, molitoff cocktails, think Oklahoma bombing, think 9/11, they used planes to commit mass murder, not effin guns, you idiots!…you 2nd amendment haters have NOFACTS AND NO CREDIBILITY….

  • Moester

    The hidden hand is ready to implement their agenda. Disarming Americans is part of that agenda. I’ve personally had enough of this vile, evil world and hope the hidden hand hurries up. I’m ready to perish.

  • http://speedle speedle

    In the name of preserving the 2nd amendment Bob, I wish you wouldn’t do this kind of stuff. This just gives the other side a reason to marginalize you and everyone who believes in personal freedom, and dismiss all as tin foil hat wearers. The fact is that things happen every day without this (or any government) being directly involved. Why don’t we save our bombs for real targets (like “Fast and Furious”)?

  • libertarian58

    I have no doubt that “Manchurian Candidates” have been used numerous times as far back as the Kennedy assassination to drive public opinion in the direction of a specific agenda. Nearly every past “tragedy” of this kind show signs of this happening just in time for a critical vote and just the “right” legislation already written up and waiting in the wings for a quick vote. How long (short) did it take for the Patriot Act to get “written” and signed after 911?

    • Texan

      Good point!

  • http://LibertyAlert Namvet66-67

    The founding Fathers new this could and would happen. ” The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants” Thomas Jefferson.
    Do you know what that means eddie47d?

  • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

    Mr Livingston,
    there are a couple weird hair raising stories floating around on this.

    The one I find particularly interesting is the one about his father being Robert Holmes.

    Robert Holmes is currently the senior lead scientist with the American credit score company FICO….and will testify soon, to Senate, on LIBOR scandal. Robert Holmes algorithms were said used to discover this massive fraud scheme which could very well turn out to be the crime of the millennia.

    So maybe just maybe they are hopping that many people will get overly excited about the UN and losing their guns which you must admit is an easy sell here and completely miss the real story.

    • Texan

      Robert Holmes is at least as big a story here. Not one word in the media. The banking industry has deep pockets to fund a program that would influence the investigation and trial. This can’t be left out of consideration for some aspect of MOTIVE.

    • angelwannabe

      Eric, How do you defend something you seem not sure of??

  • Pathfinder

    NEWS FLASH…………..
    OWS Protester Identified As Colorado Killer James Holmes
    A growing number of alternative media publications are now claiming that an October 2011 photograph of an Occupy Wall Street (OWS) protester getting carted off by law enforcement officials in New York is of none other than the Colorado Killer, James Holmes.
    Bob L …. you have your head where the sun don’t shine on this one

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      The jury is still out but, in the event that Holmes is part of the Occupy Movement, the Barons of Bilge of the Mainstream Media, Barack Obama and liberals in Congress, as the late Desi Arnaz used to say, have some ‘splaining to do.

      It is entirely possible that as they were all adoring and extolling the virtues of this violent movement, OWS was adding gasoline to the wood-pile that would eventually erupt that fateful and sorrowful day in Aurora.

      Will the Barons of Bilge issue reports from these leads? Will they at least investigate these leads? And, if so, will the Barons of Bilge put as much energy and effort into investigating these tips as they did in trying to falsely pin the massacre on a member of the Tea Party.

      Is it so outlandish, after all, that a follower of the OWS movement, would commit such an act of atrocity? Should we be shocked that such seed should spring from a bunch of anarchists?

      Probably not, but what is shocking is that Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are still extolling the virtues of this violent group of anarchists. Then again, perhaps we shouldn’t be so shocked after all.

      We can only hope that there are no more atrocities coming down the road.

      http://conservativeamericaonline.blogspot.ca/2012/07/ows-protester-identified-as-colorado.html

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    Hmm, funny how when it comes to gun-ownership, the “pro-choice” crowd are suddenly, not so “pro-choice”! And they wonder why no one takes them seriously. Poor half-wits, they would drown in a glass of water, if not supervised!

    • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

      They just stole $20-30 Trillions from us and all you’re worried about is that they may come for your guns! I am more worried about how many of you are on anti-depressant drugs which have a history of making violent killers out of docile people.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        They keep murdering almost 1 million defenceless-un-born each year, and you’re worried about money? Perhaps you should consider anti-psycotic drugs, Eric!

      • DaveH

        So what would you do about it, Eric, build a Bigger Government?
        As Government Grows, Corruption Flows.

  • Renée

    Each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. I don’t put anything past the gov.

  • coal miner 1

    Bob Livingston and Jeffh,
    This is indeed weird.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7I50kVr9OQNew6 days ago – 14 min – Uploaded by TheScariestMovieEver
    Is James Holmes a “lone gunman”, or could he be a mind controlled … roll around in his cell making …

    .

    • JeffH

      Most certainly a real possibility.

  • gunner689AI

    Blaming guns for these mass shootings is like blaming airplanes for 9/11.

    PC is BS

    • eddie47d

      Blaming Obama for the Iraq War ( which some of you do all the time) is like blaming G Bush for the War of 1812. How much PC is that? I come for the silly political bluster and I am never disappointed!

      • angelwannabe

        eddie, nothing coming out of your liberal mouth surprises us either…..

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        No one is blaming obama for starting the war in Iraq, you half-wit, only its continuation! But he did start the sh*t in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, now Syria, and soon to be Iran. One would think that obama took the nobel-peace-prize as an insult. Clearly, this man is a bigger and crazier war-mounger then bush! And of course, you and the rest of the progressive-ladies here, cheer him on, wet panties and all; yet, you point your fingers and label all responsible gun-owners, as maniacs. For your information, the biggest blood-thirsty, war-moungering, gun-and-drone-toting-maniac resides in the White-house, you blind fool!

  • DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

    YOU ARE WAY OFF ON THIS ONE. ONE DOES NOT KILL AND INJURE SO MANY TO PASS GUN LAWS WHICH ARE PROPOSED SO RELUCTANTLY (WHO WANTS TO DISTURB THE GUN LOBBIESTS?). TOO MANY WITNESSES SAW WHAT HAPPENED. DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

    • DaveH

      How do you explain FDR allowing Japan to attack Pearl Harbor, thus killing 2400 servicemen, just so he could rally the American People behind his desire to enter WWII? Which by the way he was already entering at the same time as he lied to the American people saying he wouldn’t:
      http://mises.org/books/pearl_harbor_greaves.pdf

      Don’t be naive, Dr.

  • DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

    THOSE WHO SUPPORT INDIVIDUALS OWNING AK45S AND HUNDRED ROUND MAGAZINES BECAUSE OF A RIGHT TO OWN ARMS MUST LOGICALLY SUPPORT INDIVIDUALS OWNING ATOMIC BOMBS, TANKS, CANNONS, ETC. DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

    • DaveH

      Why do you support the individuals in the military having them, Dr.?

  • DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

    IS THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS THE SAME AS THE RIGHT TO OWN ARMS? NO. ONE BEARS ARMS AS A MEMBER OF A MILITIA. DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

    • Vicki

      False. One bears arms because it is the individual birthright of every freeman.

  • DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

    THERE ARE TIMES WHEN THE POSSESSION OF ARMS BY PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS IS A WONDERFUL THING AND TIMES WHEN IT BECOMES A DISASTER. DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

  • DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

    I THOUGHT I MIGHT HAVE HEARD OF BOTH, AK-45S AND AK-47S. OTHERWISE I SIT HERE CORRECTED. DR. ROBERT E. RINGLE

  • Jim

    If they want my guns , then they will have to come and get them . I will never part with them because when that day comes , you are on your own with NOTHING to protect yourself with ! I wouldn’t give anyone the 2 cents for the BS that that has been made to believe about what happened in Colorado . I don’t trust this government since the predsident is islam and they HATE everything about Americans and what they stand for ! All they want to do is take everything away from us so we will have nothing ! I am all for anyone owning an asault weapon as well . If someone is coming to hurt my family , I want something that will be at least equal to what they are using against me . Wake up and look real hard . You will start to see the picture that is being made before you ! Keep your guns and all that you can get so you will have what is needed to protect your family and YOUR RIGHTS ! If you want to be like these other countries and not be able to own a gun or any fire arm , then go and move to someplace else that won’t let you own a gun ! ALL citizens should be able to own and carry any fire arm at all time just like it use to be ! There will be a lot less problems since you have something to defend yourself with at all times ! WAKE UP AMERICAN CITIZENS BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE !

  • http://Yahoo George

    I’ve been trying to influence some ladies in my church to obtain their Concealed Permit.
    The Aurora, CO did what I hadn’t been able to do in 18 months.
    Last Saturday they (4) drove over to get their concealed Permit and now, they don’t NEED to call the Government if some jerk think any of these four perky seniors is a pushover!!
    I guess that could be called “Recoil!!
    My attitude: We are in charge of our own Safety. We are our own Savior!

  • http://Yahoo George

    The best expression from my Military days:
    It’s better to be judged by 12 than be carried by 6!

  • Bimbam

    We obviously have a dangerous president and administration in officewho will stop at nothing to push their agendas through.

    From Fast and Furious to the Aurora Massacre we are living in dangerous times. Lives are sacrificed under the liberal altar of hypocrisy to justify CONTROL!

    We need to the 2nd ammendment more than EVER now. We need more American citizens trained in the use of firearms. We need to scare the living daylights out of liberals and this current administration of communist and socialist.

    We are FREE Americans and we will STAY THAT WAY!!! Or we will pry that pen of yours from your cold dead hands!!!

    • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

      Name one freedom that Obama has taken away that wasn’t previously taken away under the Patriot Act.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        All the ones that were previously taken away under the patriot act, obviously, since he continued to support the patriot act, rather then abolish the patriot act, you dull-witted-fool!

  • Randy Watson

    There is a man in Parump, Nv. who is willing to put his money where his mouth is, his name is Ignatius Piazza and foot the legal bill to the first victim of the Aurora Co shooting massacre for as he put it, “I am putting my money where my mouth is by paying the legal fees of the first victim to file a very specific lawsuit against the Cinemark Movie Theater chain that denied responsible citizens their right to carry a concealed weapon to defend themselves against the murderous rampage of a deranged killer. And, Victims of the Aurora, CO shooting need to file a lawsuit against the Cinemark Theater chain for denying them the ability to defend themselves by prohibiting the carry of licensed and permitted, concealed weapons into the theater. I believe that a private company certainly has the choice to deny patrons the right to carry a gun into the building, but in denying the right to self defense with a gun, once the private company accepts money from the patron, they also accept the liability to protect the patron TO THE SAME LEVEL that the patron would have had available to them, had the private company allowed them to carry their licensed and permitted weapons for self defense. So for any one who knows any of the victims tell them to contact Ignatius Piazza at http://www.frontsight.com for more info

    • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

      That is one of the most convoluted arguments that I’ve ever heard. You want to force a private company to bow to the will of a single individual? And you accuse liberals of trying to tell business how they should run?

  • JT

    OK. I’m gonna give this a whirl. I’ve read most of the comments on here and find most of them to be just ideological dribble. So I’m going to pose some issues in a serious manner, and I hope that I receive just serious, intelligent responses.
    1. Now while I am a registered Independent, and have some Liberal as well as Conservative leanings, on the issue of “The Right to Bear Arms” I am in general approval. If we have a situation like in Aurora, or a Columbine, or a Virginia Tech shooting then so be it. That’s the price we pay for the 2nd Amendment right. But from what I’ve read on here, a lot of you support this right as a measure of defense against a possible tyranical government. Now in order to realistically fight against modern weapons as used by modern governments, one would need to have a lot more firepower that even an AK -47. So would you allow citizens to own an atomic bomb? A jet fighter? A B-2 bomber? Drones? Tanks? Shoulder fired rockets? Mortars? Grenades? Machine guns? Is there ANY limit on what citizens should be allowed to own? Now bear in mind that just today Justice Scalia, a noted Conservative, declared that the Constitution doesn’t necessarily mean the right to “own canons”, etc. He even cited that back when the Constitution was written there were limits on what could be carried. He cited laws back then that made it a misdemeanor to carry around an head-splitting axe in a threatening manner.So what do you Left-Wingers and Right-Wingers feel is an appropriate limit, if any?
    2. Now most of the posts on here seem to agree that guns should be kept out of the hands of the criminals and insane. OK. I’m “right on” with that also. But I can’t inderstand why the Right-Wing especially does everything it can to throw up road blocks to things like back-ground checks and such. And supposedly at gun shows the back-ground checks are non-existent. Granted, back-ground checks would now have stopped the Aurora or Virginia Tech shooters, but they will stop a lot of loonies and criminals. So why the resistance to these checks? I would assume that the NRA would WELCOME these checks, and do everything in their power to make them work.
    3. Now here’s a dicey issue, with maybe some racial or class-warfare components. I’ve noticed in the past that Black groups such as the Black Panther Party wanted to arm Blacks to protect themselves from the government and police and such. Well White groups did, and still do, this very same thing all the time. Yet when the Black Panthers were disarmed there was not one peep from the NRA or the White society in general in their defense. Is the “Right to Bear Arms” an exclusive White Right? Another example, years ago, in the ’70s/’80s a lot of Black carried around “noon-chucks” (SP?) which were two rods of wood connected with a chain, such that they could be used (with practice!) and swung and offer some self-defense. Yet the police confiscated all of these “weapons” they could find, and the NRA remained silent. So do Black Americans have the right to form “militia” groups, as do White people? And, more importantly, will the NRA act to defend the rights of Black Americans as they do with White Americans? The KKK existed for years, armed and loaded for bear, but any Black group is summilarily surpressed. Is this what it comes down to? A Racial Thing?

    Your serious comments would be appreciated.

    • ann

      You are right JT. These people talk about freedom like no one else wants to preserve it except them. They talk about this criminal government yet don’t see that their past Presidents and their administrations were not innocent. Shall we visit Nixon and his watergate fiasco? Shall we visit Bush and his cronies lying to Congress and the people of the USA to invade Iraq. Really people, how dumb do you think we are? We see this all clearly and you want to mask the past as if it never happened. Dream on….

    • Bimbam

      The flawed reasoning of Justice Scar-ya.

      First of all he said to CARRY a battle ax, nothing is said about OWNING ONE. Or that carrying it around in a threatening manner is also stupid.

      You can carry a kitchen knife around in a threatening manner, but do we ban people from owning one???

      The problem is one of “manner” not about ownership. You can own any personal self-defense weapon you want. The early pioneers had an astonishing array of deadly PERSONAL weapons, from battle axes to 50 caliber muskets and everything in between.

      There is a cry-baby senator now wanting to limit online sales of ammo. But I got one thing to say to that cry-baby senator yelling fire in a theater. DID HE HAVE THE 6000 ROUNDS OF AMMO ON HIM?????

    • Bimbam

      The flawed reasoning of Justice Scar-ya.

      First of all he said to CARRY a battle ax, nothing is said about OWNING ONE. Or that carrying it around in a threatening manner is also stupid.

      You can carry a kitchen knife around in a threatening manner, but do we ban people from owning one???

      The problem is one of “manner” not about ownership. You can own any personal self-defense weapon you want. The early pioneers had an astonishing array of deadly PERSONAL weapons, from battle axes to 50 caliber muskets and everything in between.

      There is a cry-baby senator now wanting to limit online sales of ammo. But I got one thing to say to that cry-baby senator yelling fire in a theater. DID HE HAVE THE 6000 ROUNDS OF AMMO ON HIM?????

      NOOOOOOOOO and it has nothing to do with the massacre, OK??? He had only a hundred rounds or so. SHOULD we ban 100 rounds of ammo?????

      • Jeff

        In one magazine? Absolutely!

      • Bimbam

        I don’t know what 100 rounds of ammo has to do with 6000 rounds or a magazine. It has nothing to do with the amout of ammo.

        This only hampers law-abiding citizens in defending themselves since criminals (like liberals) due not obey the law!

        They do whatever they want, but we obey the law hampering our ability to defend ourselves. Why do we let evil rule over us?

        • Charles Moore

          First of all, he never said it. He was referring to the intent by the Founders when they wrote it. What he said was when he was talking about concealed weapons and small arms, He said that ” the Founders did not envision anybody carrying a cannon or trying to conceal a battle axe”

          • Jeff

            The 2nd amendment also says “well-regulated.” Does this not imply the founders were leaving regulation of guns to the States who had the authority to establish and regulate militias as they saw fit.

            Remember, the Bill of Rights applied only to the Federal Government until 1961 when the Supreme Court interpreted the 14th amendment as applying the Bill of Rights to the States. When the Bill of Rights was passed, it did not prevent a State from abridging Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, etc. It seems to me the amendment is clearly leaving the regulation of guns to the States although it could not have been done more clumsily.

    • Vicki

      JT says:
      “I’m going to pose some issues in a serious manner, and I hope that I receive just serious, intelligent responses.

      1. Now in order to realistically fight against modern weapons as used by modern governments, one would need to have a lot more firepower that even an AK -47…”

      Iraq still has plenty of fight after almost 10 years of the most advanced military occupation on the planet. Afghanistan still has plenty of fight eve after almost 10 years of the most advanced military occupation on the planet. Vietnam successfully resisted the full might of the most advanced military occupation on the planet. More effective weapons might be handy but clearly not necessary. The will to resist is still the most important factor.

      JT: “2. Now most of the posts on here seem to agree that guns should be kept out of the hands of the criminals and insane. OK. I’m “right on” with that also. But I can’t inderstand why the Right-Wing especially does everything it can to throw up road blocks to things like back-ground checks and such.”

      Because the ONLY way to limit the damage that will be caused by criminals and insane getting guns is to imprison them. As seen by how many criminals in countries that have strict gun control still get weapons it is clear that if the criminal is in society he will be able to get a gun on the black market. No need to wait for a gun show. No background checks and no questions asked.

      Background checks are opposed because they lead to registration of law abiding citizens (are registration if the government ignores the laws requiring them to not keep the information). When the government decides to confiscate firearms they have a list of which law abiding citizens have them.

      JT: “3. Now here’s a dicey issue…….. Is the “Right to Bear Arms” an exclusive White Right?
      No. And one of the reasons for the 14th amendment is to protect the right of the newly freed negro to keep and bear arms http://www.guncite.com/journals/senhal14.html

      Another example, years ago, in the ’70s/’80s a lot of Black carried around “noon-chucks” (SP?) which were two rods of wood connected with a chain, such that they could be used (with practice!) and swung and offer some self-defense. Yet the police confiscated all of these “weapons” they could find, and the NRA remained silent.

      The NRA appears to be focused on just firearms. As such swords, knives, Shuriken, nun-chucks are probably outside their purview. Also laws controlling/banning those tools are exclusively state laws infringing on the right to keep and bear arms. Those items are not associated with militia use and one of the arguments used to justify the banning of those tools is their lack of use to a well regulated militia. Of course current argument is to ban guns because they ARE of use to a well regulated militia. (I.E. Soldier).

      JT: “…..And, more importantly, will the NRA act to defend the rights of Black Americans as they do with White Americans?”

      When the NRA takes up a case to defend the peoples right to keep and bear arms they do not play the race card so they have and will act to defend the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms.

      JT: “Your serious comments would be appreciated.”

      You’re welcome. :)

      • Vicki

        Sorry JT I missed properly quoting one or two of your questions. I hope that you can see them and my answers ok in spite of my error. I do wish they would give us a little bit of editing ability as other websites do. All in time. :)

        • JT

          Thank you Vicki. You provided a thoughtful, well reason response to my questions. There is hope for this site yet! (LOL!).

          Yes, I agree with your analysis about my issue #1. Where the upper limit is on the right to bear arms is a matter of contention, but I personally would draw the line at grenades and bazookas and RPGs and such. But your points about Iraq and Afghanistan and Vietnam are well taken.

          For my second issue you are basically saying that anyone should be able to legally purchase a firearm because he could otherwise be able to get in on the black market. And that the ONLY solution is to lock up the criminals and insane so that they can’t purchase guns. Well now I DO have issues with your response. For example, based on your response of “no background checks” would you allow a 15 year old to purchase a gun? Or would you allow a proof of age check? How about a “citizen” check? Would you allow an alien, whether legal or illegal, to purchase a gun? Your link was very informative about the issue in the 2nd Amendment stating that “the right of the PEOPLE shall not be infringed”; NOT “the right of the CITIZENS shall not be infringed”. And while “insanity” can take many forms, would you allow an obviously autistic person to purchase a firearm? Or someone acting schitzophenic to buy one? Or someone drunk or high on drugs? Your response that the “ONLY way to limit the damage that will be caused by criminals and insane getting guns is to imprison them” I don’t think is workable. You want to imprison autistic children, or mentally handicapped people so as they can’t purchase guns? What about a former criminal who has served his time and has been released? A former criminal who commited check forgery and has served 20 years and has been released? Or a young adult caught with marijuana and also served 5 years? You answer seems to be that both should be locked up for life, just so they can’t guy guns. In fact, you seem to advocate a complete elimination of the “black Market” itself. If there are no restrictions, then what’s to stop the Red Chinese from setting up a shop in a little storefront in all our cities and selling their AK-47s at cut-rate prices to anyone who walks in? I bet American gun manufacturers would lobby to stop that pretty quick, but the 2nd Amendment says “arms”, not “American arms”. I admit that I don’t have an answer to this issue, but I really don’t like the idea that when greed and money is involved the sale of firearms by ANYONE to ANYONE just doesn’t sit well with me.

          Your third response about the NRA focusing primarily on firearms is well taken. Thanks, I didn’t know that, and I accept your response. But I am not sure about you point that the NRA is so colorblind. This I will not take on just your word. Do you have any links or evidence that they are indeed “colorblind”? I did a quick web search and found that the NRA did indeed support the the “Don Mulford” law enacted in the ’60s in California, and endorsed and supported and signed by then Governor Ronald Reagan, that effectively disarmed the Black Panthers. The NRA had also previously supported the sale of mail-order rifles after the assination of JFK, and before this, in the ’20s and ’30s, had also supported banning Tommy Guns and such. In 1977 or so the NRA experienced a “coup” of sorts, where the organization was taken over by folks similar to the current day leadership where they resist almost all forms of gun control. After this “coup” I found little evidence of the NRA supporting the Black Panthers’ right to bear arms, but I could be wrong here. I would be much impressed if the NRA, for example, opened offices in inner cities where they would give firearm safey courses and help African-Americans with the paperwork and all in obtaining their licenses to carry firearms and such. Then I would believe you that they are really colorblind.

          Anyway, thanks again for your rational and intelligent response. It is much appreciated Vicki. ….. jt

      • Vicki

        JT says:
        “For my second issue you are basically saying that anyone should be able to legally purchase a firearm because he could otherwise be able to get in on the black market. And that the ONLY solution is to lock up the criminals and insane so that they can’t purchase guns. Well now I DO have issues with your response. For example, based on your response of “no background checks” would you allow a 15 year old to purchase a gun?”

        Prior to 1968 States determined what the age was and it varied widely (still does). I don’t remember reading about lots of shootings by people under the age of 18 in all the years before the GCA 1968. The GCA set the first federal limits on age. 21 for handguns, 18 for rifles, shotguns etc. All automatic weapons are 21 or over.

        Here are some people 15 and under who have used a gun for defense.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-q2zHIovOE
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R14GohmL4g
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQcoNr6ZIEc
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiiQQP4-Ijw

        JT: “Or would you allow a proof of age check? How about a “citizen” check?”

        Both are easy to forge.

        JT: “Would you allow an alien, whether legal or illegal, to purchase a gun?”

        They are people. They have the same right of self defense we do. That right comes from their Creator not from government. And they don’t seem to have any real trouble getting guns anyway.

        JT: “And while “insanity” can take many forms, would you allow an obviously autistic person to purchase a firearm? Or someone acting schitzophenic to buy one?”

        If they are able to function in society then yes. If not then why are they not under adult supervision? The adult becomes responsible for their defense of course.

        JT: “Or someone drunk or high on drugs?

        If they are sufficiently under the influence to notice then no. But I can find no justification in the 2nd Amendment. Then again I wouldn’t loan them my car or sell them a knife either.

        JT: “Your response that the “ONLY way to limit the damage that will be caused by criminals and insane getting guns is to imprison them” I don’t think is workable. You want to imprison autistic children, or mentally handicapped people so as they can’t purchase guns?”

        If their handicap prevents them from functioning in society then they should be under adult supervision. That may be sufficient so as not to have to confine them to a mental institution. If they are in society and not supervised they can and will get a gun if they want. And they have the right to self defense too btw.

        JT: “What about a former criminal who has served his time and has been released?”

        He has been released (I.E. served his time). He has the right of self defense so yes. If he had criminal intent after suffering punishment and serving his time then he can and will get a gun anyway.

        JT: “In fact, you seem to advocate a complete elimination of the “black Market” itself.”

        Can’t be done so obviously not. Well actually it can be done. Black markets exist to feed a desire that is restricted by government. Remove the restriction, remove the market.

        JT: “If there are no restrictions, then what’s to stop the Red Chinese from setting up a shop in a little storefront in all our cities and selling their AK-47s at cut-rate prices to anyone who walks in?”

        Zoning laws and self interest? I thought the Red Chinese wanted to take us over. Kinda silly arming the enemy. Only the US government seems to do that. :)

        JT: “I bet American gun manufacturers would lobby to stop that pretty quick, but the 2nd Amendment says “arms”, not “American arms”. ”

        Correct.

        JT: “I admit that I don’t have an answer to this issue, but I really don’t like the idea that when greed and money is involved the sale of firearms by ANYONE to ANYONE just doesn’t sit well with me.”

        Understood but you can’t stop it with laws that only affect the law abiding. Let the actions of the person who possesses the firearm show his intent. If his intent were evil the presence of so many law abiding citizens all around him would give him pause to think.
        http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html/

        Should he choose to act unlawfully anyway he will find his intended victim(s) well able to resist his advances.

        It is the law abiding peaceable but armed citizen who can effect the criminal element.

        • Jeff

          Kids don’t generally buy guns; they get them from Dad who probably explained to them it was baaaad to take the gun and shoot up the school.

          • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

            With some notable exceptions. But those dads were probably off at a Promise Keepers meeting learning how to be better dads.

          • Jeff

            And you can be sure he had the kid sign a virginity oath as well.

        • JT

          Thanks for your latest remarks Vicki. Sorry about the long time for me to reply, but I own a small business and had some issues the last few days that needed attending to.

          Well you certainly got all your arguements in order and have an answer for everything I posed. If you thought of your responses by yourself then I compliment your logical skills. If you’ve read those answers from someone else then I take back the compliment and encourage you to think for yourself.

          I assume you’re a conservative because I read another response of yours to someone else’s comment and you took a small jab at “liberals”, so I’ll direct my comments with that assumption in mind.

          I find your reasoning very idealistic, occasionally hypocritical, and also rather naive. Now don’t get me wrong, I fully support your right to own all the guns you want. But some of your agruements are not very realistic. For starters, almost every arguement you use could also be used to justify free access to all sorts of drugs, for example, to anyone of any age. Now you may have Libertarian views on this, as I somewhat do, but your reasoning about selling weapons to underage people, ex-cons, illegal aliens, and “nut jobs” apply equally to drugs or driving cars or almost anything. Now YOU may not sell a gun to someone who is obviously drunk, but do you think all guns dealers have such high morals? Nope. From what I have observed about human nature is that when there’s $$ involved, some people will do anything to make a buck. And it’s also idealistic to think that underage kids or those with mental problems will always be supervised by “adults”. What if their parents are as messed up as they are? I could go on and on, but I’ll skip to another issue.

          Now consider some possible “hypocracy” in what you advocate. When I supposed the pposibility of having “age” or “legal alien” ID in order to buy a gun, you brushed it off that these IDs are “too easy to forge”. Do ou really think so? Now I’m going to make an assumption here, but if you are indeed a “Conservative” then you probably suppport all the Republican/Conservative efforts to demand picture IDs for voting, in order to (supposedly) eliminate voter fraud. But if it is “so easy to forge” an ID, then what makes you think that people won’t go out and “easily” get fake IDs in order to vote? If this is the case then all these new laws and regulations would be useless. Now I’m drifting off the “gun” topic, but don’t you think it’s hypocritical to dismiss IDs for gun purchasers, yet demand them for voting? Or is it because forged documents, while maybe easy to obtain, can be rather expensive? And who wouldn’t be able to afford them? Why poor people, obviously. Millions of them can’t afford to obtain the LEGAL ones! Now if there is any Right more cherished that of gun ownership, it is the Right to vote. Why do you Conservatives cherish the Right to own a gun, and dismiss the few people that abuse that Right, yet when it comes to voting you exagerate the relatively few instances of voter fraud (in Pennsylvania they couldn’t find ANY!) and make it so difficult to deny MILLIONS of people of the equally cherished RIGHT TO VOTE?

          Now for the “naive” part. First, I know I “granted” you some good points prior when you mentioned how Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, etc. were examples of people with less fire power defeating those with mre fire power, but seeing as you mentioned it in other posts a caution here: it’s no where as you might like to think. Don’t be seduced by movies like “Red Dawn”. In our own Revolution, as tennaciously as we fought, we wouldn’t have won if not for the French becoming involved (as per George Washington himself has said). Vietnam? Ho Chi Min was brilliant in playing the Russians off of the Chinese and he received massive aid from both. Afghanistan the same. They would have lost against the Russian if we didn’t provide them with aid and stinger missles, and Pakistan is supplying them now. And Korea is your worst example. The UN drove North Korea back and they almost were defeated until the Red Chinese Army got involved and drove McArthur and the UN back to the present lines. So while I agree with you that it will certainly make you feel good to have a few guns and ammo just in case we got invaded, don’t be nqaive and think you could hold out and win. And certainly without an outside country supplying additional arms and ammo. No, you’d put up a good fight, but you’d lose.

          But you real naivite shows in your comments responding to my question about the Red Chinese selling guns here. You said “I thought the Red Chinese wanted to take us over. Kinda silly arming the enemy”. No Vicki, you’re living in the past and fighting the last war. Now Hitler, Stalin, and Mao being the evil, nut-jobs that they were might have entertained an idea or two about invading the USA, but the current Chinese are a lot smarted and more realistic than that. They don’t want to “take us over”, they have enough problems dealing with their own unrest. No, if anything they want to “defeat” us with cyber warfare or economic power, anything to make us weaker. And what will make us weaker? Why having more and more Americans distrusting their own government, and fighting amonst ourselves. They’d be “silly to arm us”? Are you kidding me? They would LOVE to see ordinary American arm themselves and start a race-war or another Civil War or something. In fact, with absolutely no proof in hand, I wouldn’t be surprised to someday wake up and read the paper and find that the Red Chinese has been secretely funding the NRA and Militia Groups and White Supremists and God know who else all along with them, just to foster internal disent! It’s rather naive to think we’re gong to “get invaded” like in the movie “Red Dawn”, when they can have all their dirty work done for them neat and clean just by fostering our own internal disent and arming American citizens and egging them on. Now do’t get me wrong, I don’t really think that they are actually doing this, but my point is they would just LOVE to see this happen here, Americans arming themselves with AK-47s and shooting at each other until we all kill ourselves. And you comment “only the US Government seems to do that [arm our enemies]” is the ultimate naive statement. Of course we’ve armed every tin-horn dictator who professed to be “anti-communist”, (the Conservatives were good at that) but the American Military-Industrial Complex was and is only too willing to sell anybody anything for the right price. And you yourself advocate our own gun dealers selling any sort of arms to anyone who walks in the door, whether he’s a terrorist, Commie, Nazi, White Supremist, or God know who else. That’s both hypocritical and naive to advocate this, qand then claim “ONLY the US Government seems to do that” !!!!!!.

          Anyway, I’ve ranted on too long. Please don’t take any of this personally Vicki. I sense that you a good person, and probably I would be honored to have you as my neighbor, whch is the best compliment that I can give to someone I don’t know. But like I said, I find your reasoning idealistic, hypocritical, and mostly naive. But take care of yourself, and if you ever become my neighbor just aim the practice rounds in the other diredction, OK?

          • Charles Moore

            Idealistic , Naive and Hypocritical would be the exact words I would use to describe Vicki. I disagree with your statement that there has not been any proof that there is no real evidence of voter fraud. It has been proven that in Nevada when Acorn was active that there were such Registrations as Mickey Mouse and a bevy of others. Florida tried for almost two years to get the Illegal Alien Data from Homeland Security in order to try and purge their voter rolls and were refused then up until now. There has been evidence of Ex Convicts voting and also dead people. It doesn’t make any difference if it is just a thousand out of a State that has 5 million etc. Each illegal vote nullifies a Legal Vote and there have been Elections on a Local level, State level and a National level that have differed by a few hundred votes. Apparently people don’t find any problem with Eric Holder bringing lawsuits against these various States even though SCOTUS has upheld most of these voter ID Laws. Even more hypocritical is the fact that if somebody wanted to attend a speech by Eric Holder they would have to produce a Government issued ID with a picture.

            To think that somebody must be a Republican and a Conservative to want Voter ID laws is Naive. This Statement either implies that even one illegal vote that nullifies a legal vote is alright and/or Democrats don’t care either. Did you ever think that the States where there has been little voter fraud that stringent policies are in effect? How many votes in Minnesota separated Al Franken and his opponent etc?

            I will give you another example of the Hypocrisy of this Administration. There is going to be a large cut in Defense that will result in a large number of Jobs in Defense being lost. There is a Law that the Defense Industry must give sixty days notice of any proposed layoffs. Since the Layoffs will occur on January 1, 2013 then notice must be given by November 1. This would be a few days before the Election. The Labor Department has sent out letters to these Defense Industries that they should ignore the Law.

            Remember the old saying ” When they came for the Catholics, I didn’t care as I wasn’t Catholic”. When they came for the Jewish people I didn’t care as I wasn’t Jewish ” etc. ‘”When they came for me . It was too late”.

          • JT

            Thank you Mr. Moore for your civil and thoughtful response. I guess this is an area where we both disagree.

            For starters, there is a BIG difference between “Registration Fraud” and actual “Voter Fraud”. The cases you cite about ACORN registrating “Mickey Mouse” and the Dallas Cowboys in Nevada’s registration drive did indeed happen. But it’s a complicated issue. See BY LAW all such registration groups must submit ALL of their potential registrants (so as to prevent patisan groups from “weeding out” members from the other party), and ACORN was forced to submit these registrations made by people they hired to do the registration. However ACORN itself brought most of these obvious phoney registrations to the attention of the local registration board (or whatever it’s called), and the employees involved were fired and punished.

            Now the Florida case you cite I don’t know much about, so I can’t comment factually about it. Other than Homeland Secuity didn’t trust the information themselves and felt it was inappropriate to use it to determine voter eligability.

            Ex-cons voting? Well, most states ALLOW ex-cons to vote. Some (Maine I believe) even allow them to vote while still in prison! Most states allow it AFTER you have served your time and sucessfully completed probation. A few (Kentucky I believe) require the ex-con to personally petition the Voting Board to be reinstated. But a big problem actually did occur way back in the 2000 Bush/Gore election. It seems Florida didn’t allow (it may allow it now) ex-con voting, so they purged the voting rolls of all ex-cons. Except a lot of names are very common and shared by multiple people. So what Florida did was to purge EVERYONE with the name “Jose Fernandez” (for example) if they were on the ex-con list, while more “white” sounding names were tracked down and only the actual felon had his voting rights purged. Talk about a close election! Now from what I read (and this was over 12 years ago, so I can’t cite the source) over 50,000 people with Hispanic sounding names were denied the right to vote because of this. Notwithstanding the Cuban Hispanic vote going majority Republican in that election, the concensus was that Gore would have easily gotten the 500+ votes that he needed to win Florida if this situation did not happen.

            Dead people voting? I’m sure that it has happened, but no where to the degree that the talking head radio cons whould have you believe. Now remember, “Registration” is different from “Voting”. See my brother died back in March of 2005, yet he got his sample voting form in October of that year. Well I own a small business and it so happens that one of my part-time people also worked in the county registration office, so I asked her why my brother was still on the voting rolls. She just laughted and said that they are so far behind that it could be years before they finally purged him (she took care of it for me). But for that election I COULD have gone in the voting booth TWICE and voted for both him and me. Except I would have had for forge his signature, and hope that no one realized I had been there before. Which I really couldn’t do anyway because when I went in to vote the first thing the clerk did was to offer sympathy to me because she knew my brother and the fact that he had died! So my point is that while I’m sure is happens occasionally, is this the real reason for expensive voter id laws? Especially since a Republican as well as a Democrat could be guilty of such a fraud? It reminds me of the old assertion that if it wasn’t for voter fraud in Chicago in 1960, Nixon would have won that election. This has been spouted for YEARS by Republicans, and I even heard “El Rushbo” mention it several times on his radio show. EXCEPT IT’S NOT TRUE! As any smart 4th grader who knows math can prove, it seems that Kennedy won that ecection by around 90 electoral votes, and Illinois at that time had only 27 electoral votes, so even if Nixon won Illinois he STILL would have lost the election! Yet people still believe this to this day and use it as an example of “voter fraud” changing history!

            Eric Holder is hypocritical because you needed a picture ID to get to hear him speak at the NAACP meeting? Well hypocasy works both ways. Romney spoke to that meeting as well, and ID for his speech was also required. Isn’t it hypoctical for someone to need a picture ID to hear him speak, but no picture ID to buy a gun?

            Your use of the WARN ACT as an example of “this administration’s” hypocracy is also a dubious arguement. First of all, the law applies to a wide variety of businesses, not just the defense industry. And it’s provisions are subject to interpretation, and has been recommended to be amended several time by the GAO because of it’s ambiguity. It was specifically written to give workers a window to prepare for an impending layoff, and applies to a company where they would, for example, lay off 30% or more of the workers at a single plant. To know, at this point in time (or November), exactly how the automatic reductions in the defense budget that MIGHT happen on January 1st would apply to each and every individual defense contractor and each and every individual plant and assembly line is really a far stretch to accept. Even such noted Republicans such as Ron/Rand Paul have said many times that we could cut 15% from the Defense Dept. just by eliminating waste and cost-overrun abuse without batting an eye or even closing any plants. And talk about hypocrasy! Isn’t it hypocrital to insist for years and years that “government can’t create jobs!” and then turn around and say, well, except for the Defense Industry, where they obviously the government CAN create jobs and then also then lose them?

            Now coming from a rather Liberal viewpoint on this for the sake of arguement, let me say that I brought up these issues to Vicky simply to show how people (mostly on the Right) would go through hell and high water to defend gun rights, but turn around and put up obstical after obstical to prevent voting rights. By point here is to argue that I see this whole voting issue as an attempt to surpress the vote and not really to deal with the issue of voter fraud. It has a long history of over 100 years with “poll taxes” and “literacy tests” and all to simply ignore or believe that such things still can’t happen.

            But having said all this, and coming from my Liberal viewpoint, I would have NO PROBLEM, for example, if it was required to have a fingerprint ID (or something similar) for a person to be eligible to receive Food Stamps, Welfare, Social Security, Medicare, Medicare, etc., as long as a serious, good-faith effort was made by BOTH parties to ensure that little old half-senile grandmothers were actually contacted and ensured that they had all the paperwork done correctly, etc. And I would even extend this to voting as well, but only with even MORE good-faith, true and honest system were put in place to ensure that EVERYONE who had a right to vote was able to. For I see the Right to Vote as an even more important Right than even the Right to Arm oneself, and I honestly fear that the Republicans, in particular, are NOT doing this in good faith but merely to surpess the votes of the poor and elderly and minorities.

            Now I’ve went on way too long already , but let me thank you again Mr. Moore for your intelligent response even though I disagree with some of your assumptions and conclusions.

            Take care, jt

          • Charles Moore

            First of all, you are correct in some of your assumptions but it seems obvious to me that much if not all is via the Media. I lived in Florida and voted in the Bush Gore election and you have apparently bought the propaganda. Here are the facts.

            When I went to cast my ballot and got in the voting booth I immediately sensed something was strange. I have two college degrees and have been investing for over 30 years and have to keep up with current events and at first glance it appeared to be confusing. I flipped through four pages of Presidential candidates. I saw that all four pages were Presidential candidates but they were listed in two columns on each page instead of the usual one. It was later said that this was done to save space and save money. I have no idea if this was true or deliberate in order to create confusion.

            The fact of the matter is that there were people who were not informed and voted for more than one Candidate and their ballots were thrown out. There were 13,000 such ballots thrown out in Duval County where I lived and voted. In all three Counties that were challenged in South Florida there was 5000. Just 5000 in all three Counties as opposed to 13,000 in one County. So the claim that “all votes counted ” was a Joke. Duval County is in the extreme northern part of Florida and there were three Military bases in the area and it is historically considered conservative while the three counties that were challenged are considered the Most Liberal in Florida. The Gore campaign thought they had more of a chance of picking up enough votes there.

            At the time . one was subjected to the various T.V. accounts on T.V and anybody with any common sense would have been aware that the Recount in each county was different and not uniform. The Florida Constitution and the U.S. Constitution mandates that the voting in any State must be uniform throughout the entire State. The Florida Supreme Court was warned several times about it by SCOTUS and they ignored it and allowed the travesty to continue where the so called counters made absurd assumptions. According to both Constitutions the U.S. Supreme Court had no choice in their ruling if they were entirely honest.

            I have no doubt that if the voters had been informed etc and voted correctly that Gore would have won Florida. The reason that you saw the hanging chads was that they were unsure etc. Chicago Illinois had the same ballot and many more thrown out than Florida but Gore win there and it was not challenged. Again “The every vote counted” was a Joke.

            What happened was that the Voters were too stupid to mark all of their ballot correctly. Florida is one of those States where Supreme Court Justices are voted on whether to retain or not etc and one where the ballot is thrown out if ALL areas are not voted. People just marked more than the necessary pages and voted for more than one Presidential Candidate and their ballots were throw out.

            It is a Myth that the Gore/ Bush campaign was stolen. This Myth is also another reason that voters need to be informed and that there are irregularities etc that people try to take advantage of and misrepresent..

          • Jeff

            Of course, you are correct. Maybe Charles should have testified as an expert witness in the trial over PA’s registration law as the PA law’s defenders could not document any instances of voting fraud. I’m sure Charles could have enlightened the Court about how Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Stalin, and Babe Ruth were responsible for the election of Obama and that’s why they need to prevent 10% of the PA population from voting. Of course, it has NOTHING to do with suppressing the Black vote or the Democratic vote.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff…. Amen to what you say to Charlie….

      • Vicki

        JT writes:
        “Your third response about the NRA focusing primarily on firearms is well taken. Thanks, I didn’t know that, and I accept your response. But I am not sure about you point that the NRA is so colorblind.”

        I can not really speak to the NRA’s intentions. I am not even a member. I have noticed that they are way to willing to compromise with liberals when it comes to our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear the best tools for the job of defense. That may or may not explain their behavior that you reported.

        Btw I also answered your section 2 but it is in moderation for more than one cite so you may not see it till the morning. Warning :) it is a bit long.

        I hope that this discussion has been helpful to you even if you might not agree with some of my points.

    • macgyver1948

      You pose it well JT. Thank you… I want the Second Amendment in force but I too feel there should be fire power limits for civilians.

      We also do have to examine laws such as the one that says, paraphrasing, “If I hit or grab you first and you have the audacity to defend yourself fairly I have the right to take out my gun and kill you”. Those barbaric laws gives those who are on the fence with murder, because there used to be a law against it, the right to commit because (they now have the right to kill and)… the law will back them up. People with morals do not need to start the fight.

      • Vicki

        macgyver1948 says:
        “You pose it well JT. Thank you… I want the Second Amendment in force but I too feel there should be fire power limits for civilians.”

        Why? do you think a tyrannical government is going to have fire power limits?

        macgyver1948: “People with morals do not need to start the fight.”

        They do need to be able to finish it.

        • Jeff

          If you think your assault rifle is going to protect you from the Government, you’re dreaming.

        • macgyver1948

          Vicki… I agree “”People with morals do not need to start the fight.”They do need to be able to finish it”. But the guys with the bigest guns usually win. Will that be us or the so-called “authority”?

      • Vicki

        Jeff says:
        “If you think your assault rifle is going to protect you from the Government, you’re dreaming.”

        It protected the Vietnamese. It protected North Korea. It protected Afghanistan, It protected Iraq. They are all much smaller countries with much smaller populations yet they resisted successfully the mightiest military on the planet of their time.

        • macgyver1948

          Vickii… Have you ever been in combat? Are you prepared for that against many trained troops? You sound like it is definitely coming….

          • Jeff

            Wow, can people be deluded or what? I don’t know what Vicki’s problem is but generally the gun nuts who just want powerful guns with unlimited killing power are guys with certain obvious inadequacies. I can see Vicki and the other Militia members holed up in Idaho holding off the U.S. Army with their 100-bullet clips. Vicki: they’re only good for shooting up movie theatres. You’re not going to beat the Army with guns. Armies can shoot back!

      • Vicki

        macgyver1948 says:
        “Vicki… I agree “”People with morals do not need to start the fight.”They do need to be able to finish it”. But the guys with the bigest guns usually win. Will that be us or the so-called “authority”? ”

        That is the whole point of the 2nd amendment. That the whole of the People will have the biggest guns.

        Now a quick study of history finds that despite the wisdom of biggest guns we find that a ragtag bunch of rabble rowsers and mal-contents defeated the largest most powerful military in the world in the late 1700′s and America was born.

        In the 1940s a little group of people kept the entire might of the German Military at bay for nearly a month.

        In the 1950s a little place called North Korea held out against the might of the American Military/Industrial complex and exists to this day.

        In the 1960s a little place called Vietnam did one better and pulled its self back together after the might of the American Military/Industrial complex failed to overcome the populace.

        In the 2000s little countries in the mid east held out for years against the might of the strongest, best trained military of that time.

        Bigger guns can help win but that is no where near enough to insure victory.

        • macgyver1948

          Vicki… Yep, history is a wonderful guide and potential teacher. We need to learn more from it and more from our founders. I am always wondering why so many in our country disregarded the Founders words. I think it may be because the founders disagree with what many are saying today, such as “Corporations are people”.

          Ok, I couldn’t resist that very important point. I want the 2nd Amendment to be in full force. I also know there were times when we felt we were right, even as a when a small group with guns and knives can win against greater odds, such as in The Alamo.

          There are times we just have to go for it I guess but we never really known when that is. The Founders felt we should have guns partly because the Government soldiers, with or without justification (or warrants) could enter our homes whenever they wanted to and we couldn’t do a thing about it. That was wrong then and it still is today.

          I was in the Air Force during one of the wars we lost, Vietnam. I helped transport many army troops, even many special forces, to battle areas. I am not sure we have a militia who can take on those guys when they are deployed and ready but what do I know, I was never in combat. And those military guys of today are better ‘ready’. I am just not sure but I would want enough in my home to try if necessary, whoever attacks our liberty. I just wouldn’t start anything and I do not believe we need to as of now.

      • Vicki

        Jeff says:
        “Wow, can people be deluded or what? I don’t know what Vicki’s problem is but generally the gun nuts who just want powerful guns with unlimited killing power are guys with certain obvious inadequacies.”

        Interesting set of ad-hominem attacks. Debate win to me :)

        Jeff: “You’re not going to beat the Army with guns. Armies can shoot back!”

        That is rather the point we have been making about the movie theater shooting. The militia present IN the theater should have shot back. Why didn’t they? Oh. Right.

        • Jeff

          Some of the victims were military guys. I didn’t hear that any of them were armed, but it probably wouldn’t have helped. There were armed people at the Gabby Giffords shooting, but nobody was able to disarm the shooter until he stopped to reload. Why do you think that’s so?

          • Texan

            Concealed carry license requires training. Taught about responsibility for what you hit and that targets move. If it isn’t a good shot, don’t shoot. Just like police. Innocent casualties are not acceptable. That is why the armed don’t always shoot. More carnage after shooter reloads so good thing someone was able to stop him, don’t you think? Concealed carry with background checks. For open carry, training and responsibility. No weapons for violent felons. IMHO. An armed society is a polite society. Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me. Total Freedom of speech. For it is what comes out of the mouth that defiles a man. Name calling and insults show weakness in the argument’s position.

          • Jeff

            Once the shooter stops shooting, you don’t need to be armed to tackle him and disarm him.

          • Charles Moore

            Actually there was an unarmed Military Man there that tried to grab the shooter and died as a result. That somebody is trained just because they have a CCW license is Rubbish.

          • Texan

            16 hours class time including range test for initial Texas CHL and 8 hour recerts. So shut up. Police get training and people still get killed so some dumb ass might say police training is rubbish. Military personnel aren’t even allowed to carry weapons on base. I think training is a good thing because some people will be safer but not everyone has common sense. CHL instructors are free to choose not to pass anyone they think should not carry a weapon even for unsatisfactory attitude in class. I think people who don’t want to be responsible should not carry. If concealed properly, no one will know. Idiots have such a hard time keeping quiet.

          • macgyver1948

            Texan… There are also different degrees for idiots who would want to carry a gun, concealed or not. There are degrees for people who have the morality and maturity to be good with guns. Some of those degrees, for the idiots, would include the murdering of others because they might have the law to back them up so they can get away with it. Some are on the fence about that because they do not want to go to jail for some degree of murder while it is still not legal to kill someone using excessive force in States where common sense still prevails.

            I am referring to states, like Florida and others, who have a law stating (my belief of it with my wording) “if I start a fight with someone and they have the audacity to defend themselves I have, by this barbaric law, the right to pull out my gun and kill them”. Moral people do not start fights and they do not use excessive force if they find themselves in one.

            It is a shame there are people who do not do something only because it is against the law but would if the law allows. During the witch hunt/burning/drowning days many religious leaders murdered people they believed were witches, saying evil and stupid things like “we will load you up with heavy rocks and dump you in the deep end. If you die by drowning you are innocent, oh well – many God have mercy on your soul. If you float to the top you are evil and in league with the devil.” This kind of idiocy stopped (only because) when the law, with enforcement, made the evil murders stop because they didn’t want to go to jail. This and the “allowing to murder people I start the fight with” laws shows the weak morality standards in those who use that law for their fun or whatever. Those laws must be reexamined for their lack of morality and justice.

            By the way, when I was in the Air Force during Vietnam, I was in supply and logistics. We issued guns to the Army we transported to a “war zone” and we retrieved them before entering the plane on the return trip. There are sane reasons for that but I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. The Founders had sane and necessary reasons for that too.

            I totally agree with you on “ I think people who don’t want to be responsible should not carry. If concealed properly, no one will know. Idiots have such a hard time keeping quiet”.

          • Charles Moore

            You need to lay off the K.A. I am also a Military Vet and I had 40 hours of Instruction in my State because I worked temporarily with the local Sheriffs department. Since the 40 hours was ten times the amount of the time needed for a CCW license which doesn’t require a range qualification then I received a CCW permit by paying the license fee.

            All, one has to do is do an Internet search on your State and CCW permit. So you would do a search on “TEXAS CCW PERMIT” for Texas. I have given at least three websites for each Texas and Arizona.
            1. All one has to do is take one of the Arizona Website “Online courses”They will then get a certificate of completion which they then put with an AZCCW permit application and $60 and send it to the Arizona Department of Public Safety and they will receive a CW PERMIT with no firearm range qualification. Same type of deal with Texas.

            It is up to the individual if they want do more.

            I will tell you the same thing that I told the rest.

            1. If these websites are giving false information then hire a Lawyer. If there is a chance of a Lawsuit then many will be happy to take it on a “contingency’ basis of 30% The Websites offer a CCW permit that is good in that State and anywhere from 25 to 34 other States.

            These websites have been around a long time and it hasn’t happened yet.

            I just renewed my CCW permit for another 5 years. No shooting qualification or written test.

            Again and Again. It is possible to get a CCW permit with””NO QUALIFICATION NEEDED ON A RANGE”Having a CCW permit does not Guaranty anything. I consider even 8 hours a Joke.

          • Jeff

            Thank you for making my point. The idea that more weapons will make for less killing doesn’t make a lot of sense. I’m sure there are situations where an armed person (e.g. an off-duty cop) can stop a bank robbery, but is that really what we’re talking about here? Has there ever (and how often) been a mass shooting in which an armed person (not a police officer) shot the shooter before he stopped to reload? It seems to me if it’s happened it’s quite rare. These semi-automatic weapons can be emptied so quickly that a “victim” with a concealed weapon just can’t react quickly enough to make a difference. The shooters are nearly always stopped by an unarmed person when they stop to reload or the gun jams, etc. At the very least, we do not need military-style weapons in civilian life.

          • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

            You miss the point. Criminals will always have access to military style weapons. Whether stolen or smuggled in. The right to keep and bear arms isn’t about your opinion, it is to keep and bear ARMS. That is military style weapons. Not squirrel guns, not turkey guns and not target guns. The right and all the supreme court decisions have been in favor of military style weapons. That is why you can still legally buy machine guns. There is a lot more paperwork and tax, but machine guns are legal still since that is what the Right is about. You are right about one thing. You and people like you have no need for real weapons. There are people that make us all safer by having military style weapons and they have that right under the Constitution. You and the law will never stop a criminal from accessing weapons. Any gun is illegal to a criminal, but they steal or buy them even when banned. A trained Veteran with a gun makes us safer from shooters like all the news creeps. You with a gun would place us in greater danger. You should not be able to tell others what rights they should have. Our forefathers wrote that right into the Constitution for just the reason that there were criminals then also.

          • macgyver1948

            William…Ditto… If we take guns away from moral citizens what we have left is guns in the hands of the military, the police, hopefully needed, and then there are the criminals as you say who can get them easier and so much faster than we can. Why fill out forms and wait for days if you do not have to? This is just common sense.

          • Charles Moore

            Again. A concealed weapons permit does not require any sort of Training in most cases. All you have to do is plug in a State and CCW permit such as Arizona CCW permit.
            1. One of the first websites you come to when you google it states that you can do it through an Online Course. You then take your Certificate of completion and obtain an AZCCW application. You then enclose $60.00 and send it to the Arizona Department of Public Safety and you have a CCW Permit.
            2. Then there is Texas CCW permit. They have another online course and what is called a Virginia non resident CCW permit that is recognized in Texas, Virginia and several other States. Both advertise “No Range required”.

            I took a 40 hour course in my State because I worked in it it for an Independent Contractor for the Sheriffs Office. Since this course was ten times the regular mandatory course then all I had to do was pay the CCW license fee. Otherwise if I had waited then after 90 days I would have to take the 4 hour CCW course. I renewed it for another five years several months ago. No written test required and no range required. Only answer a few questions to update the renewal and enclose a recent picture pass port size and the fee. Voila. I am good for another 5 years and it is good in all States.

            Thinking that one is trained and qualified because they have a CCW permit is a Joke. I am a Military Vet and Go to an Indoor range on a regular basis but this is the exception rather then the rule.

  • george

    Time for america to wake up to whats really going on time to get rid of their criminal government before they loose every freedom they ever had.

    • Jeff

      Proving once again the theorem that no matter how idiotic and far-fetched an idea is, if it’s in print a certain number of people will be receptive to it. Fascinating.

  • Stan

    No one is taking anyone’s guns away.
    If 160,000 troops with guns, tanks, hummers, armored transports, fighter planes, bombers, and attack helicopters can’t rid Iraq of weapons in 10 years, they aren’t going to do it here.
    Take off your tin foil hats, put the Kool-Aid down and get back to reality.

  • Thinking About

    For those who thinks Fast and Furious was created to control weapons needs to do a little research, ATF was watching the gun buyers who was buying guns and then delivering them to the Mexican drug cartel, don’t like the idea of having control, then control the buying and selling guns to the Mexican drug cartel, etc, these are the problem. Want to yell at someone start with the buyers. Buyers are living off the system on food stamps, etc and buying lots of weapons and making money and still on the social system.

  • Yankeebeansouper

    What gets me is you want to replace the current g’ment (administration) with another just as corrupt. You think once Obama is out that everything will go back to normal and the one’s who can bring back normality is Romney, a republican, and the GOP. Would it surprise you that both are playing this sick game? That what you surmise the Dems are doing is actually the work and manipulation of the pubs? Who you gonna trust? I mean, really? It could be as simple as white men dressing up like Indians then going around neighborhoods slashing the throats of innocent white victims.. Your first knee jerker would be to go out and crucify the red man. If such an outrageous conspiracy is occurring, who could really determine the good guys from the bad guys when in reality there may not even be any good guys. You have your opinion, but is it the right opinion? You say to look at the Dems and Obama and the proof will be blatant while at the same time overlooking the potential evil your own heroes may be doing themselves as you don’t take into consideration that it’s congress who makes or nulls the laws. Paranoia is so infamous that the only way to avoid admitting it to yourself is to focus on one group as the enemy not believing that the enemy could be you.

    • http://yahoo jeanette haskell

      You are correct. Both parties are corrupt. Our entire government system is corrupt. The paranoia from both left and right extremists is what is helping to sink our country right now.

  • http://none nick beck

    All thoes that dont hold totally to the 2nd A are truly fools that DESERVE THE RESULTS

  • SiliconDoc

    So the guys’ Dad is the lead investigator to the LIBOR banking scandal.
    What the heck is up with that ?
    Maybe the reason fruitcake is sitting in court all nutty is that the big oligarchy power banksters and interest rate setters (CC, home loans, you name it) – all needed to send one of the investigators, this spray on red heads’ Dad, a “message”.

    Why not kill 2 birds with one stone and go after guns too – that means all the powerful libtards want the “crime” to be REAL no matter what – in other words full cover for any MIB screw ups in the plot unfolding… any “loose holes” will be covered up by the press in knee jerk reactionary confluence of interest.

    Yes, I must admit as sad as it is – with his Dad being a lead investigator into the LIBOR worldwide interest rate manipulation scandal centered in London – I am highly suspicious of this.

    Why didn’t wacko son go after some big shots the OWS protestors harrass ? Why did he go after random theater goers… ?

    Yes, it’s vry strange and doesn’t add up correctly and is one heckuva “wild coincidence”.

  • Pingback: Your Questions About Warrants In Indiana | Tampa Bail Bonds

  • JON

    False flag or true flag….guns need to be eliminated from the world!

  • Brazen

    Bob Livingston (ultra-conservative American) disrespects the dead in the Aurora, Colorado massacre. Using his political views to further his rantings about gun control. Probably avoided military service, but now he’s this big patriot (in his own mind). Leave the memory of them for the good they did in life and the love they had of others and for those who loved them.

    • Renée

      Brazen, what on earth does your comment have to do with the artical?

  • http://american-conservatism.blogspot.com/ patriot78

    Disgusting, but history is full of this stuff. Long live the Republic!

    • Charles Moore

      The Original statement is nonsense. The U.N. Arms Treaty was dead on arrival especially in an Election year.For the U.S. to participate in it there would have to be a ratification by the U.S. Senate of at least 51 out of the 100 members. There were 51 members who wrote a letter to Secretary of State Clinton to abandon any approval and there were at least 57 U.S. Senators who said they would vote against it. Why would anybody “stage” such carnage for a non event?

  • Joy

    Why is no one looking at the fact that this guys father was just weeks away from giving evidence as an expert witness in the Libor Bank scandal. He doesn’t remember anything about the last month of his life. He was set up al right, but it doesn’t stop with gun control.
    http://yourtubenews.ning.com/forum/topics/batman-shooting-used-to-silence-libor-expert-witness-robert-holme

  • Watchman

    Truth teller or call me watchman 70 shootings 2 weeks ago in chicago where was the president or maybe the Rockefellars or Kissinger didnt give him permisiion to come see get the book by Pat Shannahan Everything They Ever Told Us Was A Lie in the end they lose Revelation 17 and 18 Mystery Babylon falls.

  • http://stevor.wordpress.com stevor

    Look at the old pictures of James Holmes and this guy “caught”. They have different noses, one having a wide one and the other having a narrow one. Did he get a nose job? Not likely.
    Since James’ father was about to blow the lid off the banking industry, did the Elite KIDNAP Holmes, replace him with a drugged out nut and then are holding James hostage so the dad doesn’t testify?
    Explain it otherwise!

    • Charles Moore

      The Lid has already been blown off the Financial Industry. If you really want the true picture then read :The price of Equality by Joseph Stiglitz who proves it has been going on for 30 years and “Bailout” by Neil Barofsky who was the Special Inspector General appointed by GWB to audit TARP and how ir is even worse under Obama.

      The U.N Arms Treaty was Dead on Arrival . It had to be approved by the U.S. Senate and Majority of the members said they would vote against it. You need to lay of the K.A.. There was no reason for a conspiracy .

  • Thom Raasio

    NEW CALL FOR NATIONAL EMPTY HOLSTER CAMPAIGN

    By Patriot: Thom Raasio E-mail: thomraasio@yahoo.com

    MARTIAL LAW is coming to America before the end of 2012. September 6, 2012, Obama’s Czars will present their comprehensive programs for how to control ALL COMMUNICATIONS during a National SECURITY Emergency or CRISIS. Sounds like a good thing, right?? WRONG!!
    Obama signed and E.O. (executive order) declaring a NATIONAL SECURITY EMERGENCY on June 25, 2012. He will NEVER TERMINATE that order and he is RIGHT NOW, the defacto DICTATOR in America.
    Juyly 6, 2012 he signed an E.O. taking control of ALL COMMUNICATIONS (commercial, government, and private sources) in the event of a CRISIS or a National SECURITY Emergency. He gave his CZARS 60 days (til Sept. 6, 2012) to present their comprehensive plans to implement the controls.
    They (the Obama MARXIST, MUSLIM administration) will shut down all Conservative Talk Radio, T.V., and Internet band width. CONSERVATIVES will lose ALL manner of communication as he pulls of his COUP during the CRISIS in which he WILL declare MARTIAL LAW and he will NEVER rescind that order and becomes the PERMANENT DICTATOR over America…………UNLESS WE PRE-EMPT HIM…..and WE CAN DO IT.
    Join us in the NATIONAL EMPTY HOLSTER CAMPAIGN! As a show of UNITY and intent to stand together against any MARTIAL LAW or signing of the U.N. Arms Treaty (after the elections). Wear them EVERYDAY between NOW and the end of 2012.
    NO DICTATOR OR TYRANT can stand against a population that is fully armed.
    EMPTY HOLSTERS ONLY unless, or until, they go for MARTIAL LAW, then we ALL step out together with our guns IN our holsters on DECEMBER 13, 2012 at 9:00 a.m. EST.
    The ONLY WAY we can know we are together NATIONWIDE is to put our EMPTY HOLSTERS ON NOW, and wear them in ALL PUBLIC PLACES. That lets us tell each other we are together on this and we will NOT be alone if and when we are required to take action against these ANARCHIST who are in the process of completing their OVERTHROW of our U.S. Constitution and our 1st and 2nd Amendment RIGHTS.
    STAND TOGETHER AMERICA, DO IT NOW, DO IT TODAY! We have only a few days left to solidify our support for one another. PLEASE, PUT YOUR EMPTY HOLSTERS ON TODAY!!! and keep them on and ready for the rest of the year.
    This is our LAST CHANCE to communicate with each other. This is our LAST CHANCE to know what we’re willing to do together because they WILL CUT OFF all our other means of communication.
    Please, E-mail, Tweet, call, write , ANYWAY YOU CAN get this message ACROSS THE NATION NOW! Apathy is NOT and option, STAND WITH US, we’re standing with you.
    God bless and save our country in this dark hour.

  • AJL

    DaveH says:
    July 30, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Eddie says — “Obama doesn’t want to be king or enact Martial Law so please step back from your incoherent comment and stop drinking that insane right wing kool aid Charlene”.
    As if Eddie knows what Obama wants.

    As if DaveH knows what Obama wants.

    You paranoid people crack me up.

  • http://Lurveybooks John Lurvey

    Don’t the gun grabbers realize that that maniac would not have attacked the people in that theatre if he thought for a moment that a sizeable number of them were armed. The individuals that are responsible for the massacre are the fools that decided the movie goers would not be permitted to carry firearms. That decision is illegal and flies in the face of the second amendment of the Constitution. I am guaranteed the right to carry a weapon at any time or place that I choose. Incidentally, that amendment exists in order to protect the people of this country from the government. I predict that as soon as someone realizes that what the theatre owners have done is illegal and that they are the ones responsible for the massacre, a lawsuit will be filed that will ultimately turn those morons into paupers. I am reasonably certain that they are hiding their assets as I write. Do not be fooled. The corrupt government that we continue to permit to mis-manage this country will do anything to disarm the citizens. Thank God for posse commitatus, otherwise you would already have a squad of U.S. Marines hot bunking it in your spare bedrooms. Wake up folks, or be enslaved by Obama and his crew.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    When are you going to realize that gun banning will not stop what happened here! When they had the assault weapons ban, full auto weapons bought for $40 each were brought here by drug smugglers! Remember the bank robberies in California with machine guns! That was during a ban! Drugs have been banned for years. Murder has been against the law for many years. Only armed self defense works against such things. Look at Front Sight training for the truth about the real world and quit being children.

  • http://oo tilep

    I think this smells fishy. Eric Holder was put in contempt of congress criminal/ civil over the fast and furious deal with Mexico (gun running ordeal). I believe this happened to get the monkey off of his back. I think that the administration had paid/ bribed somebody to do this.

  • ALL AMERICAN

    Joker??? … I’m not laughing. MOLON LABE

  • MICHAEL FRANCIS HICKS

    impeach Obama

  • http://yahoo jeanette haskell

    This whole article is bull poop and a politcal tool. Banning guns will allow only the bad guys to have them.

  • http://yahoo Glen

    This totally reminds me of “The Mancheron Candidate”, a movie from years ago about brainwashing to the max. The blank look on this kids face is weird.

    • Charles Moore

      Right. It was the Manchurian Candidate and Jason Bourne. Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!

  • The Resolute Voice

    Holmes is a man who was wandering the neighborhood looking for an apartment because he believed he was going to be evicted from his student housing, but he had the moxie and the money to buy all the expensive high tech equipment found in his apartment and set it up and all the guns and protective devices he used in the shooting. Right! If the shooting hadn’t happened, what would have happened when he was evicted?

    We need to remember the Reichstag Fire staged by Hitler in Germany in the 1930′s and that political trial. It led to Hitler gaining total control of Germany as a dictator because that the propaganda for that incident persuaded Germans that Communists and Jews were a danger to the people of Germany. Similar historical events have happened that did the same thing in other countries to gain tyrants power. Are we immune? Unfortunately, we are not. We just believe we are.

  • boyscout

    It does not matter if you are caught red handed; deny, deny, deny ! Propagandize the untruth till it’s accepted via media control. Somehow divide the public sentiment (left vs, right) and take all you want; leave nothing behind. No longer a “pirate ” code but the way things are done in DC with the “two party” system.

  • MTGIRL

    I believe this is a conspiracy. It’s just too convenient for a crime to be committed at this precise moment which comprises two elements that the government has been trying to take over for so long.
    Obama wants to sign the Small Arms Treaty – which will, in due time, take over the enforcement of all gun ownership – to the extent of wiping out our second amendment.
    And in the past year, the government has been trying to get their claws into the internet to gain complete control to our access, as well as what types of information will be available to us.
    Just three days after Aurora, I heard a girl at work say that there is no way any private citizen should be able to have access to high-powered rifles. And she also said that there should be a control through the internet that the types of purchases made should have been seen and stopped. I have to admit, at first those thoughts crossed my mind – and that’s why I think this has been orchestrated.

    • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

      All to true, but it was the private army of the Democrat Party and not a government operation. Since the shutdown of the civilian contractor group by John Kennedy, the Democrats have had a group they use for dirty work like killing the Kennedy brothers when they announced cleaning up corruption against the party leaders. Much more has gone on since. This is their work for power grab. Want to be a third world nation? They want you to be subjects. They want to rule. Nothing is too extreme to steer you to giving up your rights for safety. There will be none of either if you fall for this con.

    • Charles Moore

      NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Neil Swan

    I’m amazed at the number of stupid people that think the government would kill people to pass a law.

    Neil

    • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

      I’m amazed that there are people that don’t believe the truth that there are people in the government that will kill people if it promotes their agenda. There is proof of it every day and only mental midgets cannot see it. As long as their family isn’t there and they do not have to see it or participate, it is easy for them, because they think no better of us than they do cockroaches. For 13 years I went all over the world doing that sort of thing and following orders. Do you really think that the “Bourne” movies were complete fiction?

      • macgyver1948

        William Wiley Bolton… The Borne Movies are very good, I have the set and plan to get the new one when it comes out. I do believe there is a degree of truth in them but they are exaggerated. It can happen though and that is scary.

        I do not believe Obama started this but he has to know what degree of it is going on, all presidents knew something. Bush added a lot with his Home Land Security and government not needing warrants to listen into any and all of our phone calls – cell and home. I believe they violated our Constitution with that kind of thing, in the name of “National Security, and we need to fix it. Internet snooping has been going on for many years. I feel the Founders would not allow what is being done in this and with Corporate purchasing of our politicians. I will leave this with two of my favorite quotes. We need to ask why and for whom our Government is really doing these things.

        “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin said this.

        “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” – Thomas Jefferson

        • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

          If it was clear then, it is crystal now. We cannot let despots rule the USA. I’m an old senior that wants a quiet retirement.

          • macgyver1948

            William Wiley Bolton… it is crystal clear we do not want any kind of despot anywhere in our government. I too want a nice retirement. But also I do not want the Corporations to run us either, that would be as bad.

          • Publius

            At least corporations don’t throw us in jail or tax us. Unfortunately people form corporations to avoid liability that people could not avoid which should demonstrate how corporations are not people in a very important way. A corporation cannot be tried for a crime and sent to prison, only people go to prison. Corporations can be eternal.

          • Charles Moore

            If you really want to know about the real situation with Corporations then you need to read ” The Price of Inequality” by Joseph Stiglitz. Stiglitiz makes the point that the top 1% of income earners have 20% of the Income. He also points out that they also save 20% of that income so that less trickles down to rest, This all started in the eighties when Reagan deregulated the Airlines. It had a major effect in 1999 when Clinton deregulated the Financial Industry. He also points out that the Government has allowed Corporations to flourish for various reasons.It was bad under Bush because was ignored and much worse with Obama. Another recent book is “Bailout” by Neil Barofsky who was the Special Inspector General who was appointed by the Bush Administration to Audit TARP. He explains that he was continually resisted by the Treasury Department in the Bush Administration and it was even worse with the Treasury Department in the Obama Administration. Both point out how that Corporations were rescued and the poor and the middle class suffered for it. There was the Dot. Com bubble created during the Clinton Administration and hence a false sense of recovery due to excesses in more accurately the Technology sector. Remember how Earnings were inflated and inaccurate and how their Stock which was grossly over valued was then used to purchase other companies etc. The Recession by this bubble was minor because it was caused by a small number of Technology companies compared to tens of millions of people who caused the Housing bubble and the Bankers that executed Predatory Loan practices and allowed Low income people who they knew couldn’t pay back the Loans . Then there were the People who used the Equity on their homes as a piggy bank. One could get a loan up to 120% of that Equity. Most of that money was used for consumption which gave the economy a false sense of growth.

            Things are not going to change. For at least the last 20 years the voters have been returning 90% of the incumbents to Congress. It is even worse now because we are now in the position where 50% of the people get some sort of Government entitlements and 50% do not pay any taxes at all. This means that you will already have 50% of the people voting to protect the largesse. This also means that they will be electing the same people who will continue the relationship with the Corporations who have 2.5 Lobbyists for every member of Congress. .Nothing has changed with Obama. It has gotten worse. There aren’t as many reported in the WH visitor logs because his Administration has been meeting with them at outside the WH in such places as the Caribou etc.

            There was also another bubble in 2007/2008. This was the Consumer Debt or Credit bubble. In 2005 alone there were 5 million people who had Credit card Debt alone of at least $10,000. The Recessions started both her and in Japan when Consumer Debt was 130% of Consumer disposable income. So for the first time in U.S. History you had two bubbles. The Housing Bubble wit ten of millions of homeowners defaulting and the Consumer Debt Bubble because Consumers lived beyond their means. The Idea of TARP was to deleverage the Credit problem by giving the banks money to Lend. TARP could not have been approved without the Democrats who took control of both Houses of Congress on January 3. 2007. Unfortunately they voted to give the money to the U.S., Treasury to prioritize and disburse and there was no conditions attached to the Funds. The Banks did not lend the Money as intended and the Credit crisis was allowed to get worse. AIG received 150 Billion dollars and gave their executives lush bonuses. They couldn’t call them performance bonuses as before so they named them “retention” bonuses.

            So there is no chance of reversing the situation with Corporations. There is no chance because the Corporations and Congress are entrenched after more than 30 years of Voter Apathy. . People are clueless and are brainwashed into believing that GWB was the only one responsible when the actions were in motion long before him. Until the people wake up then there is no chance and there is no chance because you have at least 50% voting to protect the Status quo of their entitlements and another percentage voting on the basis of false information and the top 1% protecting their part of the turf.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore…. Oh my God please help me because I am now agreeing with Charles Moore. Charles, good book by the way, “The Price of Inequality” by Joseph Stiglitz.

            All the years I worked with big corporations and dealt with the execs the apathy in the air toward those who weren’t them, the execs, was to thick to breathe. Our retiring VP told us in his last and retiring speech “…and I want to thank you all for all the great work you did for and me but we must always remember ‘it is all for the benefit and protection of ‘”. He was so right and so many are sleeping with our “representatives”, the execs’ paid for whores….

            GW Bush was a menace to us but I also agree it began way before him. And I believe Romney will continue his lust for Corporations and not us but that is just how I feel. Obama has his faults too so we will remain in trouble unless we do what we citizens need to do – demand full Government Reform. Good luck to us on that but I want to see our capitalism grow strong again..

          • Jeff

            Reform? What kind of refom? That’s a weasel word worthy of Romney himself and his promises to make things better through magic or secret means. Conservatives use reform to hide an otherwise ugly agenda including protecting corporations from lawsuits, lowering taxes on the rich, etc.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff…. Please do not ever compare me to Romney. His kind of reform will lead to corporate ownership of our country if he is successful. We can see that with groups such as Citizens Unite and how the Tea Party has purchased so many of the conservative GOPers in Congress. Koch is working on that too.

            The kind of reform I mean is congressional and some of the agencies, such as EPA, whom we very much need but with some reform, and the FDA. One thing at a time here but there was suggested reform that went around to many in email last year. It was called “ Congressional Reform Act of 2011” but as much as this kind of reform is needed it hasn’t worked. I believe it was a beginning “We The People” need to work on and make happen. There were nine items when I received it and I added a couple and others can add to it as well. It will not work unless enough people get it going and make it happen before it is to late. Here is what I sent out and received so many thank you responses. This is only a work in progress and by no means finished..
            888
            Congressional Reform Act of 2011

            1. No Tenure / No Pension.
            A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office. Refer to # 9…

            2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security. All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

            3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do. Refer to # 9…

            4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%. Refer to # 9…

            5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people. Refer to # 9…

            6. Congress must equally abide by all laws and benefits they impose on the American people.

            7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12. The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen. Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.

            8. Two terms just like the President.

            9. The government should be run as a corporation. In that I mean in corporations each employee is given an annual performance evaluation. If elected or appointed officials, employees all alike of ours, do not meet at least “performs as expected” or “exceeds exceptions” in all categories for their jobs that person is let go and can never run again or be acceptable for rehire. The evaluators owe their jobs and future as evaluators to “We The People”. “We The People” are the shareholders of our government, as decreed by the US Founding Fathers, and we should start now to appoint the Board Of Directors and evaluators to serve at our pleasures. And so many of other typical corporate policies may be build into the system as “WE THE PEOPLE” deem necessary as things develop.

            10. The American election process should be what is defined by our representative Democracy. In effect, all that would matter, at ever level of election, is the popular vote. No other method of voting or election process should be allowed under the law. This means processes like Electoral College voting, the anti-democratic process of election, which over rides and eliminates the The Popular Vote, is voided and declared unconstitutional. The poplar vote, where the entire citizen population of registered legal voters, is that only allowable method of voting for public office of every level, no exception.

            11. This is so important to the survival of America and Americanism itself. It isn’t the only necessity, the 10 items above are a great start but this one is so essential as well. It should be mandated and made into law that anyone who weakens or tampers with the essence of The US Constitution, leaving us with any less degree of liberty for any reason, should be arrested and tried and if found guilty, imprisoned for treason. Any past “adjustments” to The US Constitution that have limited our liberties should be restored to its original form and protective strengths. The only people who have the legal power to change the US Constitution are the voting public in a popular vote. No elected or appointed officials, individual or group(s), shall have this power.
            !2. Only living beings shall be considered Citizens of the US, therefore only the living shall have the right to vote or influence government policy.. The founders warned us about Corporate influence in government. As the Founders suggested we need to add “Separation Of Corporations And State, to our Constitution.

            Reminders -
            “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” – Thomas Jefferson

            “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin.

            We must do something before it is too late, before we lose it all. The Congressional Reform Act of 2011 is a great something.

            “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke).

            The founding Fathers declared and created the US Government as a ‘Citizens Government’. That is the very essence of “Government Of the people, by the people and for the people”. Some where along the course of time government ‘employees, both elected and/or appointed’, seem to have forgotten that and behave as though they own both the government and the country and we have allowed it. Who are they doing these things for? So obviously not “WE THRE PEOPLE”. This is why these changes and adjustments are so needed and for us to call for this, The Congressional Reform Act of 2011 to be added to the laws of our country. We cannot go on allowing what is going on in our name but not necessarily for our benefit or we will lose all that was so necessarily fought for in The US Revolution. The US Constitution must prevail as it was intended. The US Constitution must prevail as it was intended. This means The Government and the US Constitution should protect us from all enemies, both foreign and domestic, even from our own Government.

          • Publius

            I cannot fathom tyranny by popular vote in a pure democracy. I trust those in power to tax the people to pay for the propaganda and corruption necessary to dumb down the masses, breed stupid voting slaves dependent on govt handouts and easily manipulated by emotion laden buzz words. Most citizens today are incapable of critical thinking and know little of history, scientific method or statistics. Thank God so few of them bother to vote. Please do not advocate for the revolution that destroys the republic and rule of law.

          • macgyver1948

            Publius…. You said to me “Please do not advocate for the revolution that destroys the republic and rule of law”. I would never want to destroy our republic and if that is what you see in my words you are truly programed to see that. Please learn to understand and comprehend what it is you are reading. Understand the intend of the writer before you comment and what his intentions really are and what they are based on. I do my research and what I say about the Koch family, for example, is really scary for any who want freedom and liberty for all in our country.

            You also said “I cannot fathom tyranny by popular vote in a pure democracy”. What ‘pure’ democracy are you referring to? It is not that here so I wonder.

          • Charles Moore

            You are extremely Delusional if you think that most people incapable of critical thinking don’t bother to vote. The problem is that they do vote and are too clueless to know they are clueless. We have an Economic problem that can only be solved by Economic Solutions. Here are the facts.

            1. Nobody is talking about the expiration of the 2% payroll holiday that also expires on January 1. 2013. Not only does it amount to $100 Billion dollars a year but it is the chief way that Social Security is Funded.So in the two years that it has existed there has been a loss of 200 Billion to Social Security. Let us take the expiration of it and just doing away with the Bush tax cuts over $200K. These amount to 800 Billion dollars over 10 years and 80 billion dollars a year. So the two together expiring is 180 Billion dollars a year. which is 1.2% of GDP which means there will be that much less to spend in an Economy that is 70% driven by Consumers. Since GDP is only growing at 1.5% a year then this means that it will be growing at only .3% a year.This is a Recession although mild,
            2. Eighty million gained by the elimination of the tax cuts for those making over 200K is a Joke. This Administration is spending 9 Billion dollars a day so 80 Billion dollars in nine days of spending.
            3. The tax cuts for those making less than 200K is a much different Story. Do an Internet search on “Bush Tax cuts”. It cost 2.2 trillion over 10 years to extend the Bush tax cuts for those making under 200K a year or 220 Billion a year . This is more than double of those making over 200K or 80 billion dollars. This is the real money, Now why do you think that Obama is only willing to extend them for “ONLY” one year?The hope is that Obama and the Democrats will be elected and they may even try to repeal it earlier. With all the Bush tax cuts not extended then you are talking about 220 Billion + 80 Billion a year or 300 Billion. Now this is the Money. This 300 Billion is equal to equal to 2% of GDP and with the present growth rate of 1.5% then you have negative GDP. The 2% Payroll tax also expires and it is 100 Billion so there is now a total increase of taxes of 400 Billion a year which is over 3% of GDP and you have a negative GDP growth of 1,5% and a big recession.
            4. The Republicans are only a little better. This Country is finished unless taxes are raised and spending is decreased to eliminate the present 1.3 trillion annual deficit.So with the 1.3 trillion deficit removed and 400 Billion extra in taxes then we are out of the woods in 15 more years. The problem is that you can’t ignore the taxes and reduce spending by the 1.3 trillion deficit and the 400 Billion without causing a Recession .

            I doubt that the Republicans have the Guts to so what is necessary, Perhaps a few but not enough to make a difference. if anybody thinks that there is even a remote chance of removing the influence of Corporations then they are dreaming. In the area of Finance there are 2.5 Lobbyists to each member of Congress and in the Health care Industry there are 6 Lobbyist to each member of Congress and the top 1% of Income earners take 20% of the Revenue. The only way that this can be evened out to any degree is to reform the tax code and eliminate all loopholes. The biggest loophole for consumers and the largest Subsidy is the Mortgage deduction.

            The views of the Government regarding their part is being distorted by this Administration. The downfall and the huge deficit increases started with Reagan in the 80% with the huge lowering of tax rates and the Deregulation of the Airlines Industry. The next biggest change was in 1999 when Clinton deregulated the Finance Industry. What you are seeing is the result of over 30 years of damage and voter apathy,

            If people really want to know the function of Government. producers. taxes and Society etc for growth then you need to read the most recent ” Price of Inequality” by Joseph Stiglitz. Some will see his views as a little left and a little idealistic but not by much. Stiglitz has great criticism for the Left and the Right and tells it like it is. So the choice is pretty simple. Recession in a year and Bankruptcy in 3 1/2 years with Obama and a few years at the most extra time with Romney and the “Hope” that they can use the extra time to fix it. Instead people are being duped by ” Its all the Fault of Bush” Romney is too rich etc” and everything else except basic math and basic economics.I personally would like to see Obama re-elected rather than drawing it out a few more years. Then we can crawl of the ashes that much sooner and in my lifetime.

          • Publius

            Nope. We are basically in complete agreement. And the math too. The crash of big govt is inescapable. If the economy is destroyed first, before cuts are applied to wishful thinking programs without a base in reality, the the republic falls. Either way, it appears that it is going to fail, regardless of taxation ploys since the economy will not revive with the taxes at levels necessary to sustain spending.

          • Charles Moore

            Of course. it is going to fall. The only question is when. People need to junderstand thatt his has been in progress for at least thirty years and just didn’t start with GWB. It is no coincidence that Recessions started in both Japan and the U.S. when Consumer Debt was 130% of consumer disposable income. Greece was Bankrupt about the time that National Debt was 130% of GDP. Italy is on the brink at 122%. There may be a few things in the U.S. which makes it slightly different. But lets take 130% as a Standard. At the present U.S. GDP annual growth rate of 1.5% and the regular 1.3 trillion annual deficits we are there in about 3 1/2 years.

            Of course , this can change depending on the tax decisions as I detailed in another post. If the Bush tax cuts are eliminated only for those making over 200K and the 2% payroll Holiday then the GDP growth rate is reduced to .3% and it will be quicker than
            3 1/2 years if everything else remains the same. If all Bush tax cuts are eliminated than the GDP growth rate is a negative 1.5% and it is even quicker if everything else remains the same.

            There is no chance of a reversal because it all started over 30 years ago. There needs to be a balance of Government , Education and Societal trends at least..This does not exist and what exists is distorted. You also have to have a Media that is informative and polices the Government etc and keeps the Public correctly informed . What you have is a fragmented Media that not only distorts the truth but is so fragmented that certain parts of the Media target certain groups and report on that basis.

            The tax code is biased as it favors the upper brackets. The largest Subsidy in the tax code is the Mortgage Subsidy. There are people that can’t afford to buy a home so they are subsidizing not only the ones who can afford a primary home but also a second home up to a certain amount.

            The largest Subsidy outside the tax code is the Ethanol Subsidy. So look what has happened recently . The main ingredient here is Corn. In order to protect that subsidy here there was a high tariff placed on Ethanol imports from Brazil and Corn going to Ethanol distorted the demand not only for food but for feeding Livestock etc. which caused price increases either directly or indirectly in those areas. Now you have a drought problem so there will be less Corn etc in production. There is a Federal Law that Refineries must include a certain percentage in their blends so presently available supplies go to them first so more distortion.

            You can’t raise taxes in the present Economy for the reasons detailed earlier. Whether you do or don’t raise taxes there are still distortions such as the ones mentioned above and others. If you raise taxes then things hold as mentioned above. If you don’t raise taxes right away then you will buy some more time. Then the question remains whether those in power will make the necessary changes to reverse the situation Taxes will have to be raised and Spending will have to be reduced. You have to do both when the Economy recovers. You can;t keep the tax cuts and reduce spending so much taht it compensates for no tax cuts. Too much of a Reduction in Spending just after a recovery will also cause a huge problem.Not only will there have to be a balance of Taxes and Spending but such distortions above will have to be eliminated.

            I don’t see it happening at this point.There will not only have to be the proper number in any one Party to do it bit also the Guts to do it.

          • macgyver1948

            Publiu.. its a good thing corporations can not do as you say “At least corporations don’t throw us in jail or tax us” since it is not their job. But if Romney gets in and has what he would be there for slowly, eventually, the corporations would be able to tax and lock us up.

            You also said “ A corporation cannot be tried for a crime and sent to prison, only people go to prison. Corporations can be eternal”. This is what the Founders said and they feared corporations so they cannot be considered people.

            I very much like how you worded “Unfortunately people form corporations to avoid liability that people could not avoid which should demonstrate how corporations are not people in a very important way”. Very true. Thank you… I will leave you with one of my favorite quotes on this subject which shares the Founders fears of Corporations. Romney should know how much he is lying to us and that we know it.

            “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” – Thomas Jefferson

          • Charles Moore

            That must be the reason. It is the fault of Jason Bourne.

      • Jeff

        Write a book. It’s not a world most of us are familiar with.

      • Neil Swan

        There is a lot of BS put out on this site that a lot believe for no reason other than they are conserv atives.

        Neil

        • macgyver1948

          Neil Swan.. What cause would conservatives be seeking by their lying? Why would so many lie? Why would they put us down for not agreeing with them? Doesn’t the Constitution give us the right to express our “different” opinion so why do they act as though we do not have the same Constitutional rights as they do? Many of them here resort to name calling and insults if we do not agree with them. Why do they do that?

          I would hope your reasoning is not the reason but on here and on other sites I would have to wonder about those conservative who do..

        • Charles Moore

          That must be the reason. They are Conservatives. Amazing.

          1, The U.N, Arms Treaty was a non event especially in an Election year. In order for ti ti be valid for the U.S. then at least 51 U.S. Senators had to approve it. There were 51 Senators who sent a letter to Secretary of State Clinton to not sign it as they would vote against it. There were at least 57 Senators who said they would vote against it. There are 100 members in the Senate. It was “DEAD ON ARRIVAL”.

          Why would anybody stage the shooting in Aurora when there was no chance of it being approved anyway????

  • Mark

    Spokane WA 3rd Leg Dist – (my votes)

    Michael Baumgartner……U.S. Senator
    Cathy McMorris-Rogers…U.S. Rep Dist 5
    Shahram Hadian…………..Governor
    Brad Owen………………….Lt Gov
    Sharon Hanek……………..State Treasurer
    Karen Murray………………Sec of State
    James Watkins…………….State Aud
    Stephen Pidgeon…………A.G.
    Clint Didier…………………Comm of Pub Lands
    Ron Higgins………………..Super of Pub Inst
    Scott Reilly…………………Insurance Comm
    Nancy McLaughlin……….State Senator
    Tim Benn…………………..State Rep Pos 1
    Dave White……………….State Rep Pos 2
    Scott Stafne………………Supreme Court Justice Pos 2
    Bruce Danielson…………Supreme Court Justice Pos 8
    Richard Sanders…………Supreme Court Justice Pos 9
    (www.WeBelieveWeVote.com)

  • Randy

    Do you know why 6 million jews were murdered during WW2. Answer: They were all disarmed civilians. No one had a gun. Do you know why so many people were killed or injured in a Colorado movie theater? Answer: None of the movie goers had a gun. The 2 men that came in and shot up those innocent people had a reason to do it.

    • Charles Moore

      NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Renée

        Charles Moore, Have you ever been in a situation where you needed to defend yourself?
        If you are ever faced with a situation like that, how do you plan to accomplish such a task?
        What if you personally had a home invasion and you were there with your family? Let’s say all of these intruders had firearms, how do you plan to defend your family? These aren’t outlandish questions and I would really appreciate knowing what you personally can do. Teach us these things so we can know another way outside a weapon for defense if in fact there is another way. I’m always open to learning new things. I ask because there was a 14 year old boy babysitting his younger brothers and sisters when intruders came in with a gun. He was able to protect his family by shooting one of them and they were arrested.
        http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-23/phoenix-teen-shoots-intruder/55782484/1

        • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

          Your question is an excellent one and the truth is that people that have never experienced an attack are completely unprepared. The very idea that law would protect them from people that ignore laws is extremely ignorant. Allowing disarmament of all citizens will invite a huge increase in crime. When assault weapons were banned, drug smugglers, that ignore laws, began to bring automatic weapons that are available worldwide cheaply, for sale at huge profit here to criminals. Remember the bank robberies in California where the police were outgunned? That happened during the BAN of assault weapons. The only way law can answer this is with good sense law. Make extremely harsh penalties for the use of a gun in a crime and guarantee no prosecution of any person that stops a crime by using a gun. THIS MAKES SENSE! Go to or search Frontsight to learn how to protect yourself in the real world. A gun owner without training is more dangerous to themselves and others than having no gun at all.

        • macgyver1948

          Renee… Yours is an great question. How would we defend ourselves from an armed or unarmed home invasion? I might state my next point a bit differently if I had kids still living with me but since I don’t. An empty unloaded gun is as useful as an ash trey in self defense. If I have to go where I ‘hid’ a lock box with the bullets it very likely will be to late. OR I suppose I could ask the home invaders to wait until I find that box, unlock it and load the gun, for a fair fight of course.

          I knew several police who say they are happy people have guns in their homes because they, the cops, cannot always get there on time to save people. They wish those with guns would learn how to use them. We have to maintain the Second Amendment but most current laws are sufficient and need to be more rigorously enforced. Justified self defense is the only excusable excuse for using a gun on some one.

          And I hope we do away with barbaric laws, such as in Florida and some other states, which say ‘if I start a fight with you and you have the audacity to defend yourself I legally have the right to pull out my gun and murder you”. “over kill” has to be illegal too.

        • Charles Moore

          First of all. I have a CCW permit. What I said originally still applies.Do a google search on “Arizona CCW Permit” or Texas CCW permit or any other State. You can take an online course for Arizona and on completion you will be sent a certificate of completion. Get an AZCCW application and with it enclose $60 to the Arizona Department of Public Safety and you get a CCW permit etc. There is no Guaranty that just because somebody has a CCW permit that they are trained well enough.You can’t have shooting range requirements on an online course. And they specify “No range qualification needed.

          We own three dogs. Nobody gets within 50 feet of the house without them raising Hell until they recognize them. I have two pistols and a shotgun. and plenty of ammunition.

          I do not leave my house without my weapon. If I ever have some fool such as Zimmerman follow me then I am going to be real apprehensive. These shooters aren’t usually so stupid that they don;t choose a place where guns aren’t allowed. They are smart enough to choose the path of least resistance. I just don’t go in these places.

          i am not as paranoid as my younger brother who lives in Texas and takes three pistols with him when he leaves home and has an AR15 in his home.

          There was no conspiracy to “stage: the shooting in Aurora because of the U.N Arms treaty. It had to be approved by the U.S,Senate and it was dead on arrival. Why stage something for a non event?

          • Jeff

            Morons like Zimmerman aren’t going to bother Geezers like us. Just young Black guys.

            I just took my teenage son to see “Neighborhood Watch” with Ben Stiller and Vince Vaughn and with Jonah Hill as Zimmerman himself. The premise is about as realistic as some of the scenarios I’ve read here. These boneheads with their guns saved the world from aliens. Just like some of these bloggers imagine themselves doing if caught at a mass shooting.

  • The Resolute Voice

    The Reichstag building caught fire on 27 February 1933, giving a pretext to suspend most rights in the Reichstag Fire Decree in an effort to weed out Communists and increase state security throughout Germany.

    Hindenburg opposed Hitler, but the deteriorating political and economic stability of the Weimar Republic led to him play an important role in the Nazi rise to power. He appointed Hitler as Chancellor in January 1933 before the Reichstag Fire. In February 1933, Hindenberg then issued the Reichstag Fire Decree which suspended various civil liberties, and in March he signed the Enabling Act, in which the parliament gave Hitler’s administration legislative powers. So the Reichstag Fire did lead to Hitler’s gaining full power in Germany.

    • macgyver1948

      The Resolute Voice… The Reichstag Fire did indeed help to bring the madness of Hitler to power and many wouldn’t have been surprised if Hitler arranged that fire for that purpose. Hitler’s thugs and thug tactics are infamous and he used them to gain the government. He lost the popular vote and took over perhaps using his thug methods. Major fear can works wonders.

      If that relates to us now (and I think we should learn from it), the losing the popular vote but stealing the election and the government, that is more reason we need to get rid of the Electoral College and only stick with the peoples votes. The Electoral College negates our vote as it did with GW Bush and Gore. I just hope 9/11 was not a “fire”.

      • JT

        I agree wtih you Mr. MacGyver.The presidential election should be based on the entire country’s popular vote. But this would require a Constitutional Amendment and the Right won’t let that happen. They say that the candidates would then campaign in only big population areas, but how often are campaigns run in NorthDakota or Alaska or Wyoming now? No, they won’t allow it because then more people would vote, seeing that everyones vote would then mean something. And the Right wants less people voting, not more. The only way an Amendment would pass is if, say, Obama WON the electoral college but LOST the popular vote. Then an Amendment MIGHT pass.

        • macgyver1948

          JT… WOW I very much agree with you. I think for many years Republicans were afraid of more righteous Democratic voters going to the polls. This thing about voter ids might be a new tactic even though they might claim it is for making sure only those who are legal voters go to vote. Many more would if they felt their votes really did count. Since, but also before, the GW Bush Gore election there is loads of doubt. I also feel if any who are “ righteous” voters but turned away should have the legal right to sue any who stopped them all the way up to president. If a Governor is the highest guy in that state he should go to jail and lose his post for violating one of our most sacred rights and traditions. Put a couple oin jhaoin and I bet the rest would rather allow all those who have the right to vote to vote. It cannot not wait until after an election either to prove anything.

          I also think in the beginning the founders might have felt almost all American were illiterate so they might need help voting. If that is true the EC was and should have been meant to be only temporary.

          It is so discouraging to know if I vote my vote could be canceled by the EC. If it is then it is reasonable to assume “WHY VOTE”. What would be the point? Gore won over bush but lost with the EC.

          • Charles Moore

            I have already explained the Bush/Gore recount.
            1. In Duval County in Florida there were 13,000 ballots thrown out.
            2. In the entire three Counties there were 50000 votes thrown out
            3. The three Counties that were challenged are the three most Liberal counties in Florida.
            4. Anybody with half a brain knows that there were on uniform procedures for the Recount in the three Counties.
            5. The U.S. Constitution and the Florida Constitution mandates that all counties is ant given State have to be “UNIFORM”. This is also common sense.
            6. Chicago Illinois that had more ballots thrown out then the entire State of Florida and went for Gore was not challenged.
            7. People were too stupid to cast a correct ballot.If they has not voted for more than one Candidate for President then Gore would have most likely won. This doesn’t mean that people who were to stupid to cast a correct ballot should get a do over.

          • JT

            Good points about the situation in Florida in 2000 Mr. Moore. Why were the votes In Duval County thrown out? Bad ballot design, like in southern FL where they had a “butterfly” ballot? I know an absurd number of people actually “voted” for Pat Buchanan when they thought they had voted for Gore (leading to the media outlets to declare FL for Gore, based on what the exit polling indicated). The Gore camp didn’t even contest this, as they had no legal recourse for this error, especially since a Democrat designed the ballot.

            But please send some links affirming your statement that “The U.S. Constitution and the Florida Constitution mandates that all counties is ant[any] given State have to be “UNIFORM”. This is also common sense”. I can’t find this requirement in the US Constitution, and I would LOVE to reopen an arguement with an old friend from 12 years ago! (He will be surprised that I’m reopening this arguement after all this time!).

            Everything you said only reinforces my original opinion that, in the case of FL and anywhere else where it was a close race, that the ENTIRE STATE should have been recounted. I think the Gore camp made an error in not demanding this, but I believe that in any close election (by a certain %, say) that a full recount be done on a local or even state level if necessary. Our SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT RIGHT in America is the RIGHT TO VOTE, and it follows then that the accurate counting of votes is a necessary part of this RIGHT.

          • Charles Moore

            I voted in that election. When I went into the voting booth something did not seem right. It turned out that there were about 4 pages of Candidates for President and Vice President that year. They were not listed in a single column as before. They were listed on two columns. The ballots were said to have been thrown out because they were punched for more than one candidate for President/ VP.

            I suspect that this was done because people were uninformed and after a couple of pages figured that they were voting for a Democrat or Republican in another position.The excuse for the double columns was that because of all the candidates they were trying to save space and hence money.

            I suspect that even though the people in the three Counties had 5000 thrown out compared to the 13,000 thrown out in Duval that most of them would have gone for Gore if voters had marked their ballots correctly since they were the three most Liberal counties in Florida, Of course, this is why the Gore campaign chose them since they could only choose a certain number in the Recount.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles… You could very well be right in your assumptions. All the more reasons voting in our country must be modernized, standardized and protected all over. All the votes must count.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles… Yep, you do explain a lot to us and you are the authority on everything, So I guess we should just bow to your wisdom. We can all know how it is suppose to work, and we can wonder how it does works. Let’s throw out many more voted this time…

        • Charles Moore

          People were so stupid in the Bush/election that they couldn’t cast a correct ballot. The Electoral College is an attempt to smooth out these possibilities. It doesn’t work now because there is a much larger number of Stupid and Uniformed people casting a ballot.

          So you would advocate a Popular vote that would skew it even more as each and every Stupid and Uniformed vote would be counted????

          • JT

            Well Mr. Moore, based on your last comment, my opinion of you just went down. Big Time. From you last comment you must be…..let me guess….a Conservative Republican? Right?

            Your latest agruement isn’t even logical. You say that people are too “Stupid and Uninformed” to even cast a correct ballot, then later you state that with a a Popular Vote Amendment would only magnify the problem. How so? If they couldn’t cast a correct ballot now, how would it change if we counted votes nation wide? Their incorrect ballots would still be thrown out, regardless of how they’re counted.

            But what really pisses me off is your underlying assumption in your statement. “Stupid and Uniformed” people shouldn’t be able to vote? From what I’ve read on this site, many people defend giving guns to illegal aliens, crazy people, and ex-cons. There is no “Stupid and Uninformed” requirement to obtain a gun, is there?

            How about the First Amendment? Do we require people to follow a religion that doesn’t seem “Stupid or Uninformed” to the rest of us? Well I personally think Mormanism is “Stupid and Uninformed”. The Morman idea that God has a physical body and lives on his own planet in some far-off star system and that God has sex with his multiple wives and that Jesus came to the Americas to convert the Indians and that the Garden of Eden is really the state of Missouri I find incredibly “Stupid and Uninformed”. Do I think Mitt Romney then has the right to run for President? YOU BET I DO! Will I judge him for President based on his “Stupid and Uninformed” religios ideas? NO WAY! I will vote/not vote for him based on his other qualifications, ideas, experience, whatever. Not his religious beliefs.

            Just remember that MILLIONS of these “Supid and Uninformed” people served in our Military, from illiterate soldiers in Washington’s Army to grunts in Afghanistan. They sacrificed their careers and family life, gave blood and guts and limbs for this country, and millions even gave their very lives for this country! It is America’s DUTY to make it easy for these people to vote, and NOT to make it so complicated that their votes are thrown out and not counted. The Right To Vote is no less sacred a Right then the one to Bear Arms or to Worship as one sees fit.

            But maybe it all comes down to your opinion being one of those “Class Warfare” issues that we all read about. Yeah, that must be it. Let the Stupid people go off and die for this country, but let’s just “arrange things” so they can’t vote. Yeah, that’s it.

          • Charles Moore

            You would be wrong. You are apparently one of these people who must be a Republican if they do not agree with you. That in itself is stupid and unassuming. When i was in the U.S. Navy here in 1979 I Registered as Democrat. I had to Register as one or the other. Florida is a State where you can’t cross over in the Primary. In 1979 the advantage was to register as a Democrat. I have not voted for a Democrat or Republican in the the General Election since I had a choice over 20 years ago. With one exception. I voted for Bill Clinton the 2nd time around and Hilliary in 2008 when I had to vote for her or Obama in the primary. In the General Election I didn’t vote for Obama or McCain. I recognized Obama as a disaster and the lessor of two “Evils” is still evil.

            You need to take a course in Remedial Math. The Electoral vote works as in intended by the Founding Fathers. The size of the population in any given State can affect the vote in various ways and hence the outcome and the most populous States can have a greater effect and more leverage then a small State. The Electoral vote was to give proportion to the various States.

            If you take the popular vote then you are going to be counting each and every person. The uninformed and gullible as well as the ideologues etc will not be balanced out.

            In the 1990s you had a Technology bubble that resulted in a Recession known as the Dot,com bubble. it was shirt lived because there was just several Technology companies that inflated their earnings and used the inflated stock to purchase other companies. In the Housing bubble there were tens of millions of homes that went under not only because millions of people bought homes they couldn’t afford but established home owners used the equity in their homes as a piggy bank to take out loans for as much as 120% of the Equity, Now that is Stupid. The Banks took Predatory advantage of these low income people because Clinton signed the De Regulation of the Finance Industry in 1999. The De regulations started in the 80s when Reagan De regulated the Airlines, You are seeing the results of over 30 years because of Voter Apathy and Uninformed voters. So don’t give me this Democrat or Republican crap or Liberal or Conservative etc. This Country is all but finished Economically.

          • JT

            I’m sorry Mr. Moore. I owe you an appology. Based on what you wrote I can see that you are one of this country’s few individuals who are well informed but don’t adhere to a strict Party Line. It’s one of the flaws with our Democracy: that just because a politician/party is right about one issue, it doesn’t mean that he/they are right about all issues. Every issue has to be looked at on it’s own, and the truth and correct solution determined independently. You yourself seem to do so.

            Nevertheless I still respectfully disagree with you in our discussion about the Electoral College. Aside from the points I made previously, let me add two additional ones. 1) I think that if the popular vote was instituted, and everyone’s vote would be counted and mean something, then it MIGHT, just MIGHT, encourage more people to become informed and vote. 2) I have no evidence of this, but I would think (and hope) that a popular vote might encourage more political parties than the two we have now. In fact, I believe that the Electoral College has inadvertently encouraged and fostered a “two party system”, which the Founders didn’t envision or support and is nowhere in the Constitution. With rare exceptions, our two party system has ruled in National Voting, and where a third party got some traction in a specific election, it only lead to a retrenchment of the two party system in the next National election.

            Again, I appologize for stereotyping you. I guess it’s from listening too much to Limbaugh, Hanity, and Muck Latrine. My own personal views are evolving into voting Anti-Republican, yet I see most Dems are incompetent and spineless to effect meaningful change either.

            Take care,
            jt

          • Charles Moore

            Thank you for your response. I gave up over 20 years ago and have only looked at Economic Trends. by trying to anticipate them and take advantage I can try and maintain a standard of living that is at least Middle Class.

            Perhaps “Stupid ” wasn’t the most correct word. How about Gullible or Uniformed?,. If you aren’t aware of it you need to do an Internet search on “Bell ,California”. This is a city in California of 36,000 people. The City Manager was getting $800,000 a year and the Sheriff was getting $400,000 a year which is more then these officials were getting in the much larger City of Los Angeles. . The 36,000 voters allowed this corruption to go on for years and were even duped into signing away some of their rights. The Sheriff who was forced to retire gets a Pension of $22,000 a month and has just started a Lawsuit for more .

            I am originally from California. When I graduated from High School there in 1959 it had one of the Best if not the best Educational system in the United States. Its California State Wide Achievement Test was a model for the rest of the Country. It is now the Worst. The State itself is 16 Billion in Debt and that doesn’t include Unfunded Liabilities. Yet the California State Legislature just approved a 58 Billion Dollar High Speed Rail. There is 50% of the California Revenue that goes to support the Public Sector so the Unions have a big voice in Elections. etc.

            California has a Population that represents about 5% of the Country. There have been three U.S. Cites that have gone Bankrupt. All are California so far which are Vallejo, Stockton and San Bernardino.

            So what you are saying by the vote is that one out of 50 States that controls 5% of the Population of all 50 States and is 16 Billion in Debt, has the record for the most and Only Bankruptcies and feels an obligation to the Unions etc has a large part of the voting decisions.

            You need to read a book with the title ” the price of Equality” by Joseph Stiglitz. This os the most outstanding book I have read regarding the functions of Education, Government and Society etc and the problems caused by Corporations and the 1% and ow they all need to interact.

            It looks like this Administration has taken some of these points and distorted them for their own reasons. For example. This E, Warren in MASS, talks of the need to be more like China and spend 9% of GDP on Infrastructure . Stilitz points out the need for Infrastructure as a part if the equation,E,W, has gone too far,China has no roads etc and has to start from scratch . The U.S. is established so 9% is not necessary. Obama claims the Government is the cure all Stiglitz details the Functions and the necessary need for it but not as a cure all. Stiglitz also points out that all this stated with Reagan when he lowered taxes by way too much and was the first to start Deregulating the U.S ,with the Deregulation of the Airline Industry.Stiglitz then points our that the next Major Dereg was the Deregulation of the Finance Industry in 1999 which was signed into Law by Clinton. So this started over 30 years ago and not in 2001. Stiglitiz also points out that the top 1% gets 20% of the Income and then saves 20% of it so it doesn’t all really trickle down.

    • Jeff

      Yes, the burning of the Reichstag gave Hitler political “cover” for his power grab, but you have to wonder if it gave him power or reflected the power he already had.

      I find it a useful metaphor for things we have seen here. I saw the “burning of the Reichstag” in the whole development of Bush’s War on Terror. Not that I think he actually brought down the towers but his use of the event bears some similarity. Suddenly, everything he ever wanted to do was justified in relation to 911 and the attempt was made to tie everything he wanted to patriotism. Thus, it became unpatriotic to say “the emperor has no clothes” when he was selling indefinite detentions, torture, renditions, the Iraq War, etc. Look how far Bush got here, with an intact Congress and with an active press corps. Hitler’s “successes” become a bit less of a mystery.

    • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

      Everybody speaks of all the influencing groups, corporations and others that they do not want ruling the USA. According to our Constitution it is of, by, and for the people or citizens that our Republic is ruled. The biggest problem we have in our nation is the ignorance of our own citizens. They should all get copies of the Constitution and read it several times. A person does not need to memorize it to get a good idea of what it is about. People should realize that politicians are like underwear and should be changed quite often. Long term politicians make for corruption and corruption is our major problem now as it has been for many years. There are many ways to find truths. One easy way is to read the congressional record. Most of it is lawyer speak to keep us from knowing what is done. A close look at old records shows clearly that actions by politicians toward cleaning up corruption is what got them killed. Not some magical government conspiracy, but their own party. If you run with corrupt people and then announce after you get in office that you intend to clean out their corrupt dealings that pays them millions, it is easy to see who wants them dead. The people betrayed get very angry when they have elected a person that came from a family that made their fortune from illegal business, and turns on them saying they won’t allow the same to go on. If that is nonsense then why when a senator brought up the same legislation only three years later, for cleaning up corruption, did his daughter get murdered? The note on her pillow said to drop the bill and the President at that time let the Anti Organized Crime and Corruption in Government Bill die again. It is still in a dark corner and that isn’t nonsense. People that say it is nonsense to say that a party would kill it’s own or have puppet politicians are just ignorant or one of the supporters of corruption. A lot of people get money out of corrupt government dealings. They do not want the bucks to stop. If you get enough, you’ll kill to keep the cash flow. Private armies and stone cold killers are a fact of life and just because you don’t see them out front does not mean they aren’t real. Use a good person to do a bad thing and it stays secret. it may take many years for the person to understand how they were used and that may be dream like twenty years later.

      • macgyver1948

        William Wiley Bolton.. You say a lot here and much of it could be true. So how do we correct all this you speak of without us taking back the Government? After all, it is our property. I suggest government reform and not in violent ways. What say you? William Wiley Bolton.. You say a lot here and much of it could be true. So how do we correct all this you speak of without us taking back the Government? After all, it is our property. I suggest government reform and not in violent ways. What say you?

  • Mike

    I’m glad I came across this article because I thought this incident reeked of false flag from day one. I know a lot of people will call anyone who beleives this a conspiracy nut. However, keep in mind that the same people would be calling us conspiracy nuts if, before Fast and Furious became public, we said the US Gov’t was giving untraceable guns to Mexican drug lords (and US thugs – yes many of those guns found their ways in to our inner cities) so they can blame the violence on the 2nd amendment. Let me inform you people that false flag operations have been around for at least the past seventy-five years. I can tell you first hand that the operatives targeted for both false flag and covert “special actions” are recruited while attending, or right out of, college; and falsely believing that they are serving their country. Guess what? Those kids that were imprisoned in Iran for hiking too close to the border, they were “special action operatives.” Still think we’re conspiracy nuts? Then look up “Operation Northwoods,” which was made public by the freedom of information act. This was a fully documented false flag operation that took place under the Kennedy presidency; in which it was proposed that the CIA would commit acts of terrorism upon the United States of America, which would be blamed on Cuba in order to garner support of a Cuban invasion. Of course the only documents released were the false flag ops that Kennedy chose not to use with no mention of the ones that he probably did use. Among the the many Northwood operations drafted and approved by the Joint Chiefs of Staff was the planned hijacking of an American passenger plane. It was proposed that a real plane containing American passengers would be hijacked by friendly forces disguised as Cuban agents. The plane would drop down off the radar screen and be replaced by a pilotless aircraft, which would crash, purportedly killing all the passengers. Under the plan, the real passenger plane would be secretly flown back to the United States. Northwoods also proposed to shoot down a chartered civil airliner with a route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students to garner maximum outrage of the American citizenry. This is all documented people! Do you still think that false flag operations don’t exist?

    • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

      Thanks so much for your confirmation of the existence of the group that I was a part of for 11 years. They do look for talent that shows up in schools, some for active operators and some for just using as patsy types. We were all ready to do all for our country and proud to be called upon by our government. It took years for me to realize that a lot of what was being asked had nothing to do with national security. When I began to see ops that were for profiteering I began to wonder how they could ask for us to risk life and limb for financial gain of individuals. That was where I realized they didn’t care about any person at all and national security was actually personal security for their gated community. They hold all of us in contempt as lesser beings.

      • Mike

        William,

        Without saying too much, let me just say that you and I are brothers in arms.

        God bless.

        Mike

  • ynottony

    oh yeah, like this site isn’t involved. our hope lies in our fellow American in uniform being unwilling to comply when ordered to execute contingency plans reminiscent of garden plot.

  • Jerry Rose

    The plot thickens….

    Robert Holmes, the Aurora shooting suspect’s father, is a senior lead scientist with FICO, the American credit score company. He was scheduled to testify in the next few weeks before a US Senate panel that is investigating the largest bank fraud scandal in world history. This banking fraud threatens to destabilize and destroy the Western banking system.

    Robert Holmes not only uncovered the true intent of the massive LIBOR banking fraud, but his “predictive algorithm model” also traced the trillions of “hidden”dollars to the exact bank accounts of the elite classes who stole it. In other words, Robert Holmes could NAME NAMES! Those names WOULD AWAKEN THE WORLD to the depth of government and corporate corruption which could include members of Congress, Wall Street, Federal Reserve and EU executives and could even include US Presidential candidates and the British Royal family.
    http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news617_batmanwhohow.html

    • macgyver1948

      If this is true and iF there are good guys in the governed they better protect Robert Holmes…

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    I’m an old senior citizen and the last living person in my family. The only thing I fear is God. Being this way and having wiki leaks remove the validity of the non disclosure pacts just makes it possible to tell it all. If I wrote a book like many have advised, there would be people on all sides saying everything in the world about it, from nonsense to revealing truth. My fellow citizens, you can trust yourselves and if you elect honest politicians you will see major moves to corrupt them and if that does not work then they’ll do their best to kill them. Honest men are very unpopular in politics unless they are do nothing people. The most popular is a good speaker that does as told.

    • macgyver1948

      William Wiley Bolton.. You were nice and short this time but to a good point. I would hope there are many young and new politicians who get into it with the notion of doing what is best for their constituents. Before long do they see they have to vote according to their party line or do they lose any support from their party if non-compliant? How difficult is it to run again if you are not supported by your party?

      I often wondered how a majority within a party can vote the same ways even when it doesn’t help their respective constituents. Do all TEA in the House feel the same way or are they told how to feel, I mean vote? The same with most Dems, do they all agree with Obama and are they around long if they don’t? There should be statistics on this. I can ask “How long do non-compliant “representatives” last in office? Should be very interesting.

      • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

        People have to realize that the leader and commander of a political party is not the president or presidential candidate! Those positions are taken by figureheads. if they were the power figure they represent, they would not age so quickly. Look closely at photos of Obama when elected and now. The rapid aging is not that of a person at the top, but of someone caught between the proverbial rock and the hard place and answerable to a power that is hard to please. Conform is the name of the game. The party votes together. The soap opera is an act by both parties as they share power to a degree even though both parties answer to the same power that all top politicians of all nations answer to, Keep the populace distracted and arguing so they do not agree on control of the national destiny. If the people realized their true power it would unbalance the real seat of power. We can rule if we realize it and throw the crooks out. The Constitution rests the power with the people, but they have forgotten that. Everyone looks to politics for answers. They have none so the soap opera. Do not look at the parties for the true power seat. They are too busy fighting over the scraps. They feel helpless against the real power, so they try to keep things confused. The true power base is threatened only by a free people that exercise their power and know it. This is why they want so much to remove our Constitution and make us subjects. There is more cooperation between the parties than they make out. The futures of the politicians and their families are assured if they behave according to orders.
        It is a continual scramble to hide the truth. Say a new congressman gets elected and wants to do right. Easy to drug them and produce compromising photos, bank statements or virtually anything. Agree or have an accident. Like I say, they keep records, knowing the people do not read them. Any questions? Read the congressional record since it is all there since WWII. Mountains of paperwork and a lot of computer records. What have they done?

        • macgyver1948

          William… Yes, many presidents age more than their terms. Jimmy Carter, for example, looked 100 years older after he left office especially after the hostage situation in Iran with our Embassy there.

          I think it is fairly well know the president does not have total power but he has a bunch. He does have to “please” certain people but he also, to some extent, has to respond to us. Parties do “inspire” (I am being very polite using the word “inspire”) their members to vote their ways. Mostly “their ways” are “inspired” by major money so it is that game we know as politics. I will never believe all members of a party who vote the party line really want to. They do so in order to retain party support for their re-election attempts.

          I write to both my state’s senators (even received calls from both their offices), one repub man and one dem lady. I get responses from them and I can tell a difference. I ask why they voted or how they will vote and I get not answers by rationale for their voting which seems more like a party line thing then a good reason for their vote. I mostly agree with the Dem lady but the Repub man Senator is annoying with his responses because they mostly sound canned as well as with no intention to help the UN-wealthy. This might be one of my reasons to mostly side with Dems but I see stuff I am not always happy with in them Dems (lol) too at times.

          Whatever you think of the former Governor of Minnesota, Jessie the Body Ventura, who said that congress is like WWE wrestlers. I believe he meant they are one way in front of the camera, their public image, and totally different behind the camera, he should know, LOL. It is that “soap opera” you refer to.

          You speak of the Congressional Record. I bet there are so many things in there and in other places “they” do not want us to know about as well. Government of all kind through our human history have records they do not want their people to know about. Even the Vatican has a vault of records, with stuff older than they are in it, and most people are not allowed in. I wonder why. Are there things in those places we, the common man should not know, according to them?

          God gave us “Free Will” and I believe it is up to “We The People” To do what we need to do because our “representatives” are not representing us in so many ways. I want it peaceful, through Government reforms by us since we own the Government. I want the Constitution to be as it was meant to be – for us.

  • Frank In PA

    The Libor Scandal, A Key Witness And The Colorado Shooting

    http://www.whitecivilrights.com/?p=7543#more-7543

    Robert Holmes, the father of the shooter, James Holmes, will be a key witness in US Senate Hearings on the multi-billion dollar Libor scandal and that someone may be trying to silence him.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    Remember that if the people get together the crooks lose power. As long as we are kept in the dark they have power over us. Wake up and unite. That is why the founding fathers named our nation the UNITED STATES of AMERICA!

    • macgyver1948

      William… I have often said and written it would take so many of us to ban together to get what needs to be done – done. We need a group like AARP but for all voters. We need Democrats, Republicans, Independents to all get together and tell Congress they owe their jobs to us. We need all those who really believe in freedom and liberty to do this.

      I say we need this because by ourselves, individually or in small groups, if there isn’t enough money and/or votes behind us we will be ignored. We will be given the party line excuse, if we receive any response at all, as their justification and they will expect us to “just go away”. We should know this form our history and we should know this by how the parties vote in sessions. In corporations if the Execs do something it better be with the approval of the big investors or they will lose those investors and that will piss off the Corporate board and then there will be new execs at contract time(s), or before sometime.

      “We The People” are both the investors and the board of our Government so if we are not happy with our “execs” we need to change execs. AND, we need to make sure all our future “execs” are more afraid of us, for their jobs so to speak, than they ever will be of the big money investors or the Corporations. This and how we go about doing it will not be easy but we must if we want to keep our America.

      Special interests are killing us. The only special interest our government “execs” need to be concerned about are those which benefit “We The People” and I mean all of us as equally as possibly. Not only for the big money.

  • Delores Smith

    MR. BOB LIVINGTON,
    Information comparing the Tucson, AZ shooter with the Aurora, CO., shooter…..
    – CASH: The Tucson shooter stayed at a motel the night before the shooting. He returned to his parents’ home the following morning (he lived there). The shooter’s father saw him with a black bag, and demanded to know what was in it. His son ran down the street with his father driving after him. His son got away. The shooting took place after this. After the shooting, someone turned in the black bag to the police. It was loaded with ammo, and a plastic bag filled with LOTS OF CASH. The Tucson shooter was unemployed, but he threw away the bag with cash….which someone forturnately found.
    WHO GAVE HIM THE CASH? WHO GAVE THE COLORADO SHOOTER THE MONEY TO BUY HIS EXPLOSIVES, GUNS, AND RIOT GEAR OUTFIT?
    – GUNS – Both shooters had a GLOCK gun in their possession.
    – STATE OF MIND: Both shooters are “acting” insane.
    – GUN CONTROL: This is all about gun control. FAST & FURIOUS was set up by Holder and Obama, with 2,500 numbered guns in AZ., without tracking devices. Two border control agents were killed, along with more than 200 Mexican Nationalists (and the brother of an Attorney holding office in Mexico). Fifteen hundred guns are still outstanding. Holder admits that more people can be killed, because they don’t know where the guns are. GOAL OF FAST & FURIOUS: To blame citizens of Arizona for shoving guns over the border to Drug Cartel, to takes away guns from Arizona, and ultimately the citizens of the United States. Hillary Clinton signed small arms’ treaty with the United Nations. It was voted down in Senate and shelved temporarily in U.N. TAKE GUNS FROM HONEST CITIZENS TO WEAKEN THEM AND CONTROL THEM. Obama invoked Executive Priv., on docoments that would prove his involvement to the Oversight Committee in Congress.
    – AND THE SHOW GOES ON – Obama, I will prove your involvement in any illegal activites. COUNT ON IT!
    Delores Smith
    Delores109@cox.net

    • Jeff

      Yes, Delores and Obama was also responsible for 7 more deaths in a shooting earlier today in Wisconsin at a Sikh Temple. Who will you blame everything on if Romney wins? Oh I forgot. You guys are still blaming stuff on Jimmy Carter. More guns=more killing. It’s that simple. Make it harder to get a gun and you’ll at least reduce the incredible number of these shootings.

      • Delores Smith

        JEFF,
        The evidence is not all in to convince you that we have Marxists and Muslim Brotherhood in the White House. Until you finally see the light, get yourself a pea-shooter to protect yourself. If you haven’t watched all of Eric Holder’s oversight hearings, you are not qualifed to reply to me. Your mind is so closed that only a nuclear bomb could open it. Criminals can always get guns. Obama’s intent is to disarm us, so that we are unable to defend outselves. I live in Arizona where ICE is being told to let illegals go. Illegals are from Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, and Latino Countries. Some of them are most likely in your state as sleeper-cells. Don’t buy a gun. You will definitely shoot yourself in the foot.
        Delores Smith
        Delores109@cox.net

        • Dick

          Delores,

          it must be awful spending your entire life thinking you are surrounded by spies, enemies and terrorists. Stop being so afraid.

        • Jeff

          Keep your gun out where you can get it real quick when the Boogie Man comes. Don’t come crying when your grandson gets hold of it and shoots his best friend by accident.

          • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

            Kid’s that “get a hold of guns” and shoot their friends are a result of the NO, NO attitude of locking up and hiding guns instead of being honest and showing kids the reality of guns. The hide the gun and lock it up is what makes for curiosity about it. All the kids I have cared for, and there have been many were taught everything about guns as soon as they expressed interest. The proper instruction about weapons universally results in a loss of interest in weapons until they are older. It also teaches them to get away from the kid with a weapon and tell an adult immediately. NO CURIOSITY once they know what a real gun does! Proper instruction makes for responsible children. I have yet to meet a child that had curiosity about guns that said no when they were asked if they wanted to shoot a gun. If it is allowed in a proper way they will lose all interest until they are older and are at the age to get instruction in safety. All my foster kids are responsible gun owners. None of them are criminals. Respect is learned from honesty with children. Once a child knows what a real gun does they are ready to go back to toys. NO CURIOSITY, because they know the reality. Knowledge of the reasons behind our rights and the responsibilities makes good citizens of children. Hiding everything makes adult children like most left wing people. They believe the things they are told by their circle and become so “intelligent” that they are beyond such things as truth and facts.

      • Mike

        “Who will you blame everything on if Romney wins?” We won’t blame it on anybody, but there’s no doubt that you and you’re ilk will blame in on Romney. What a hypocrite you are Jeff.

      • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

        Different laws won’t make it harder to get guns. The ban on assault weapons resulted in the illegal importation of cheap assault weapons by drug smugglers. The result was major crimes that were worse because the weapons imported illegally by smugglers were more lethal since they were full auto. If all guns are banned there will be a flood of smuggled weapons on the street. Around 90% of the weapons confiscated in Central America are of old Soviet Bloc manufacture and the average cost for the black market is $40 each. The sale price here is over $2000. Most every one of these came through Cuba. Only law abiding citizens will be affected by stupid new laws. Proper laws would be SEVERE penalties for the use of a gun in a crime and complete protection of a citizen that stops a crime using a gun. There must be no prosecution of people that are within their Constitutional rights of self protection under the 2nd amendment. It will be impossible to disarm the criminals of the world and that has already been proven. Disarmament laws will only prevent people from protecting themselves and their families. Only the simple minded believe that making something against the law will stop it. Murder, burglary, robbery and a host of other crimes have been against the law for many, many years, yet they continue to be done. Get real and learn to live with the rights as written. Make it rough on people that have no respect for the responsibilities that go with the rights we all have. SEVERE, VERY SEVERE penalties for using a gun in a crime! No prosecution of people exercising their rights. NO HUNTING OF PEOPLE BY WANNABE COPS that aren’t police and trained. Psychological tests in schools that spot problem people early on so they don’t obtain weapons legally. There is no way to stop them fro obtaining weapons illegally as there will always be illegal weapons available. Make sense in supporting our Constitution.

        • Jeff

          That’s all fine, but it won’t be enough. Columbine, Aurora, Tucson? Would any of those be stopped by stricter enforcement and longer sentences? Highly unlikely.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… When it is hate and/or anger and/or insanity or drugs that runs the brain which pulls the trigger what you say “Would any of those be stopped by stricter enforcement and longer sentences? Highly unlikely” would be so right. The laws we have are fine for sane and calm and moral people. Our version of Nazis, the Neo-Nazi kind, KKK or so many out right criminals will not stop because of a law. We need to find better ways to enforce the laws we have and go with more max sentencing if for no other reason to keep us safer longer from the ones who are caught – or for ever.

  • macgyver1948

    False Flag? We will hear more on that concerning the shooter in the Colorado Theater as more evidence comes in along with theory. What I mean about the Colorado shooting is that shooter’s dad is supposed to testify before Congress very soon on matters which affect major international financial dealings. I hope there is no connection between the two shootings, Colorado and the one by that madman in The Sikh Temple a couple of days ago but as always they are of concern for us all. I feel for the families of the victims most of all.

    Were either of these shootings False Flags? Maybe time and truth will tell us.

    • Jeff

      All they have in common is the ease with which they got guns. Anything more is just happenstance.

      • macgyver1948

        Jeff,,, I hope you are right….

  • politicstick
  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    So some do pay attention. Clinton also got rid of the informant network we had developed since before WWII that cost around $250 million a year in payoffs. We ended up being blind sided and sucker punched by terrorists, because we no longer had warnings that could be taken care of quietly. By saving $250 million in information payments by taxpayers, we ended up spending more than $10 Trillion. Then Terror Czar Clarke had reports placed on his desk in 1994 and 1997 that outlined exactly what happened on 9/11 and commented that no one would do such a thing. The reply to him was what about the Kamikaze during WWII? He answered, “you’re nuts!” The result of the question was firing.

    • Publius

      Vince Foster. Ron Brown. Mena air base. Wildwood. Tyson. Etc. Etc. Etc.

  • Pingback: America’s Newest Vaccination : Personal Liberty Alerts

  • Lore

    Our nation seems to have fallen under a spell of stupid. Textbooks have been re-written in such a way to make people who didn’t do much good for our country look like heroes. They desensitize children through the use of media and create disrespect toward their elders. Those in charge of our government want more power but they can’t get that power unless they take away a few certain rights granted to us through the constitution. Their first objective is to take our weapons, but that was put on the back burner until they could figure how to do it. They prioritized making our nation in debt, created the IRS to ensure that could happen, broke families apart due to not enough funds to survive. Second stage would be to enact fail safes to drive us to unite under false pretenses via 9/11 which was the best coverup strategy conceived. People will do whatever it takes to survive. And if it came down to disarming themselves just for scraps on the table they’ll take it.

    We aren’t too far off from Vampire 2000 AND Agenda 21 from actually happening but if REX 84 is activated at the end of 2012, then it will come to fruition. I’ve been calling all this out since early 90′s as more and more evidence comes to light. Militias have always been around and will be there for when it does happen. Question we should be asking is why have we let this happen to begin with? Freedom is not given, it is won and protected. How can we protect our freedom if we can’t defend ourselves? Taking over several million weapons nation wide would allow these programs to go into effect.

    So many people are brainwashed to believe in what the government says is true that they’ll take sides with the majority since that is how democracy works. Rule of the masses. Democracy is how Rome, and Greece fell. They reigned at least 200 years each before collapse because of democracy. We are supposed to be a republic but ever since 1865 we started toward our fall when the Communist Manifesto of Karl Marx and Frederich Engel wrote that drivel in 1848 and spread it throughout the world. No matter how you look at it socialism will be the enemy we need to be leery of, and it right now, comprises the majority of all the democrats that want everything for free.

    • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

      You’re right, but here I am a senior citizen, disabled in the service of my country, without the financial resources to start and train a militia and about to move out of this, my beloved nation if Obama is elected again. I would gladly train people since I am a qualified ROTC Instructor in Covert Operations and Parachuting with many other Certifications. Having taught at a University ROTC program administered by the Third Army, I would gladly help a group of Patriotic Militia to prepare, but there is little time.

    • Dick

      You should try reading some history, Lore, rather than making it up. Neither Greece nor Rome were democracies when they fell. Rome never was, and only one of the city states in Greece can pretend to have been, and that for only a few decades (and it certainly wouldn’t have been recognizable as a democracy in our terms, without any notion of universal suffrage, and with maybe only 5% of the population having a vote – the rest were women and slaves).

      • Lore

        Dick you seem to be part of the stupid crowd and you need to do some more research, before you claim to think you know everything also. You fall under the wonderful brainwash scheme from how you sound there. Rome and Greece started out as conquering countries. When all was said and done they became democratic. Slavery if you want to view it was distorted and perverted by western civilization. Rome and Greece freed their slaves once they paid their debts.

        • Charles Moore

          Nonsense.

        • Dick

          In the late bronze age, when the Greeks were powerful in the mediterranean, there was no ‘country’ called ‘Greece’ – there were people who called themselves the greeks because they shared a common language, and there were a collection of city states, all independent of each other, the most powerful being Athens and Sparta. These states fought with each other (real bloody wars) almost continuously. The athenian democratic experiment didn’t last long, about 180 years altogether with two interruptions, and depended on other people doing all the work – these were captive workers and their descendents (a subject class) who were slaves in anyone’s understanding (they were not paid, and they could not leave). By the time Athens was taken over by the Macedonians, athens was effectively a kingdom. Finally it was absorbed into the Roman Empire. Rome was never anything remotely like a democracy. It was a kingdom, then an aristocracy, where only members of prominent families occupied the senate, then ruled by a triumvirate, then by one man, then an empire under an emperor.

          • Lore

            Conquering countries after absorbing surrounding territories eventually turned democratic because by then people stood up against the tyranny. When what we now know as Turkey conquered what we now know as Greece they destroyed the culture and built its image. All that is left are the ruins that are in process of being rebuilt. If you have been to Greece lately its more Communist than anything else I have ever seen. Walking the streets of Athens is almost now suicide if you don’t know how to blend in. I was there back in 2006 and it only got worse after I left.

          • Charles Moore

            The extent of the great reading experience of Lore seems to be in the area of Red Beckman who with Benson tried to assert that the 16th amendment of the U.S. Constitution was not properly ratified etc.

    • http://Rome Charles Moore

      Nonsense. You need to check your facts. First of all, the first Communist Manifesto was written over 2300 years ago, It is the “New Republic” by Plato. Plato describes the perfect Society. There would be the Philosopher -Kings who would rule and would not have any money. They would be satisfied with just ruling the Country. Then there would be the Merchants. They would have an income . They would have no say so in the ruling of the Country and would be satisfied with their income. Then there was the Military who would only be satisfied with the protection of the Country. Then he talked about the need etc at the State and Local Level etc. Everybody would be equal in all respects except for the Philosopher Kings etc. They would all eat at a communal hall etc.

      At the close of the book Plato then states that such a Society is impossible because of the “inherent nature of the greed of man”. The Philosopher Kings would not be satisfied with just Ruling and would want money and the Merchants would not be satisfied with just money and would want to rule and this was 2300 years ago.Rome fell because of the debasing of its populace. They were the greatest Military as long as they were Romans. When the armies became weak and barbarians etc were absorbed into the populace then the armies became degraded as well as the Citizens. Their Currency was also degraded. These were the two major reasons but there were others. I suggest that you read :”The Decline ad Fall of the Roman Empire” by Gibbons. It wasn’t Democracy itself.

      Then you need to read the recent ” The Price of Inequality” by Joseph Stiglitz. Do a search on him. Stiglitz points out that there has to be a perfect balance between Government. Education.Economic and Social Values. All are lacking in various degrees in the U.S and all are dependent to some degree on each other. This is what happened in various stages in Rome and what is happening here.

      Here is an example for you. Because of the recent actions of the POTUS by implementing part of the Dream act and trampling on the U.S. Constitution and subverting Congress there are now 1.76 million illegal aliens that are eligible for a work permit. The Government does not count you as Unemployed unless you are Unemployed and actively looking for work. Then there are people who want full time work but can only find part time work. When you count ALL Unemployed and the Under Employed then you have 15% Unemployment. Now you will also have 1,76 million illegal immigrants competing with 15% Unemployed Americans. This is an example of an Imperial Government and the same sort of Immigration that contributed to the fall of Rome.

      Then there is the fact that the House Republicans have passed over 30 pieces of Major Legislation including three Budgets and Jobs Bills. The Senate controlled by the Democrats have shelved them all and not allowed a vote. This has denied the people a voice on the Floor of the Senate .How do I decide or anybody else on the Merits or no Merits of Legislation in the upcoming Election in November when I don’t know how any Senator of my State stands on any given issue? So here are examples of the loss of the Balance of Power in Government. an Imperial Presidency. an Immigration that threatens our Job Security etc and the subverting of the Rights of Society to a fair and honest Democracy and not Democracy itself.

      • macgyver1948

        Charles Moore… I know you hate to hear from me but I want to say your knowledge of history, especially concerning the Romans and Plato is commendable. The Romans did survive though but in slightly different drag and they remain a non democratic society still with great power over those who are of them. Your comment is a good read even with your injected opinions, which you are very entitled to, some of which I agree with…

        • Charles Moore

          It has been a long time sine I have read any pure history books. I have read the Decline and Fall of the Holy Roman Empire and also the historical series by the Durants. . There were several reasons for the down fall of Rome, There was a debasement of the currency and there was the debasement of the populace. Some of the emperors were a perverted. Most refer to Nero. I remember Caligua. Not sure of the spelling. Its Military became decadent both through the Emperors and the inclusion of the barbarians. Of course, they then were not able to protect all their cities because of this and were spread too thin. Religion is also there. A good read now is “The Price of Inequality ” by Joseph Stigliitz. I gave up on the Political aspects long ago and reverted mostly to Economics. Stiglitiz is a little to the Left and a little idealistic at times. He is the Nobel Prize but it seems to me that he gives too much Credit to the the people although he has hit the nail on the head for the 1%.Stiglitz is correct that there must be a perfect and better balance between Government , Education, Economics and Society. But we must get close to that point before we can utilize it.

          1. One can subscribe to all the nonsense about the importance of the VP pick and the Left and the Right or Conservative and Liberal etc. One should concentrate on the present trends in Economics and then decide on their direction. If they are ignorant of these facts or ignore them they they will be a part of the failure. We are heading for a Fiscal Cliff.
          2. Do an Internet search on “Bush Tax cuts”. This Administration is ranting about the tax breaks for those making over 200K a year. Eliminating them would bring in 800 Billion over 10 years or 80 billion a year. This Administration is spending 9 billion a day so that is barely enough for 9 days. Hardly a Panacea,
          3. The cost over ten years for those making under 200K a year is 2.2 trillion or 220 Billion a year or almost three times as much. Why do you think Obama only wants to extend it for only one year.? The expiration of both is 300 Billion a year
          4. The 2% payroll tax holiday also expires on January 1, 2013. Can’t let it go much longer as it is 100 Billion a year and is the chief way to fund Social Security. Now we are up to $400 Billion in tax increases. Add the increase in Capital Gains taxes and Dividends and we are up to $500 Billion or 1/2 trillion in tax increases. This 1/2 trillion a year is about 3,5% of the Economy so 3.5% will be taken out of an Economy that is 70% consumer driven because consumers will have 500 Billion less to spend. The GDP is presently growing at 1.5 % a year. Taking 3.5% out of the Economy means 2% NEGATIVE Growth and a Recession.
          5. Finally we have a possible 1.76 million illegal immigrants that are now eligible for a work permit because of the Unconstitutional Immigration act by Obama. The true Unemployment rate is 15% when you count ALL the Unemployed and Under Employed.
          6. So continuing the present trends you have a Recession with a possible 1.76 million illegal immigrants competing with 15% Unemployed Americans. An even worse Recession and this is only if there are no other increases etc.
          If you have a Safe and Secure Jon then you have no problem. If you are Retired and have a Safe in Secure income then you probably have no problem. Otherwise you can have a lot of Pain. All of this stuff about the VP etc is nonsense and a distraction or just being Clueless.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore… Thank you. I enjoyed those books too but it has been a while. I see so many parallels in how Rome fell and what we are going through. Don’t you just love all this “flat” currency? When I was a kid my dad told me the more of something you might have the less value it retains for you. Maybe that is one difference for the value variance between coal and gold. I think I will print some more money to cover my expenses. Anyway, history has always been a great interest to me and since Rome still influences us today I read all I can on it.

            You said “Some of the emperors were a perverted. Most refer to Nero. I remember Caligua. Not sure of the spelling. Its Military became decadent both through the Emperors and the inclusion of the barbarians. Of course, they then were not able to protect all their cities because of this and were spread too thin”.

            Many of the emperors were perverted as you say and I think because of their absolute power, thinking they were demi-gods and that they deserved their perversions. Apathy filtered in heavily and that is what I think Nero was doing playing his “fiddler on the balcony” routine. I also think many of our politicians feel this way of themselves too.

            I agree that the army of Rome was diminished with the inclusions of barbarians but when an army expands as the Roman one has they need new recruits so they absorbed. At times I drink scotch on the rocks rather than with water for that reason.

            I didn’t concentrate so much on economics when I was in college and grad school, mostly finance to support my IT. Since then I have wished I studied more economics. Stiglitz is one I have read since then too. I agree that he is correct in saying “that there must be a perfect and better balance between Government, Education, Economics and Society”. I see a major flow in how Corporations are imposing their wants in our government, as the founders warned, but we very much need this balance to include businesses of all sizes, just not big corporate money in government.

            I have stated my political views on here primarily from an emotional stance and I bet that is why I draw so much name calling ands insults. Not a big deal, I can handle it. But as you say I too see the trivia in choosing a VP and which side will bring the miracles more for us or for them. I feel elections, maybe especially this one, will be voted on by each of us as we see whose Capitalism/Economics more aligns with “my own”. I look at the GOP’s Capitalism/Economics as one that is more aligned with the big corporations, whether it is or not, so I oppose them perhaps because I have gotten to know corporations and their exes in my career. I have looked at Romney’s history and I know Ryan as he was since he became the GOPs darling a few years ago and they scare me because of who I see they represent. But opinions are like (LOL) noses and we all should have one.

            I have looked at the Bush tax cuts and I see what The Obama admin is doing. More reason not to brag about either side, as if we needed more.

            Unemployment rates have never been realistic as presented by the in Admin and the out. There are so many looking for decent enough paying jobs and if they are not on the rolls they are not counted as unemployed. Add the Part timers looking for full time and there is always deflated figures. We should know the out Admin will make the numbers work for them as well. Also the in Admin wants to look better so we have “relatively” low unemployed as shown. Where do we all fit in?

            You wrote a lot here and I enjoyed it but I should end this. Thanks again…

          • Charles Moore

            First of all, we are heading for the Fiscal cliff as I detailed earlier. I didn’t include just the elimination of the tax breaks for those over 200K and the Payroll tax Holiday . The Payroll tax is how Social Security is funded . The 2% is 100 Billion a year so when it expires on January 1, 2013. then $200 Billion will be taken out of Social Security .Obama Care for Medicare. This is the Democrats. There have been lies about the Ryan Plan. The first plan by Ryan was in answer to all the whining about people being able to get the same Insurance as Congress. It was no workable because the average person does not have access to the numerous aides in Congress who can continually research the best Plans etc. It was also estimated that the voucher system could cost some $6000 a year. Since then the critics haven’t mentioned that Ryan and a Democrat.( i believe the name is Wyland out forth another plan. This will cost $800 a year or $66.00 a month. The cost now is $98.00 a month. The first and the second only affects those 55 years of age or younger. It is an outright lie that it affects people on it already. The program “Sixty minutes” aired a segment about it and they edited out the part that Ryan has a mother who lives in Florida and is on Social Security/Medicare and wouldn’t harm her.The Seniors are a very important bloc in Florida and they want to scare the seniors.

            Now for just the expiration of the 2% Payroll Holiday and the tax breaks for those making over 200K a year. The total is $100 Billion +80 Billion a year or 180 Billion. This 180 Billion is about 1.2% of GDP . GDP is now growing at 1.5% a year. Taking 1.2% out of it due tax increases at a growth of 1.5% leaves .3%(point 3). Actually the over 200K $100 billion when you factor in the Capital Gains and Dividends etc so the total is 200 Billion dollars which means a flat line on GDP Growth and a possible 1.76 million illegal immigrants competing with 15% Unemployed Americans for Jobs. We will see a mild Recession at least. This is why President Clinton announced on National T,V, three times that “Taxes should not be raised on anybody until the Economy recovers”. Since then he has gone over to Obama. President Clinton has also been untruthful about his Welfare Legislation. In 1996 President Clinton and a Bipartisan Congress reformed Welfare. The took decisions on Welfare away from the States and out it under the Federal Umbrella.They also passed Legislation that control could not revert back to the States in any way ,shape or form unless approved by Congress. So when President Clinton states that Obama didn’t change the work rules then he is correct. Sort of like “that woman”. He neglects to mention that Obama has subverted his Welfare Reform by leaving the decision up to the States. Then there is the ad where Romney caused Cancer in a woman. The husband was offered a buyout by Bain Capital which he refused. The wife had her own job and Health Insurance. She didn’t get Cancer until six years later after Romney left Bain and Bain closed the Steel plant. because of the import of cheap Japanese Steel. The Obama Deputy campaign chief denied any connection to the Obama Administration until an Audio tape surfaced with this Deputy campaign chief having a Conference call with the Husband. A few days ago Debbie Wasserman Shultz who is the head of the DNC stated that she was not aware that this Democrat Super Pac was for the Obama Administration. It is a Democrat Super Pac.

            You are correct when you state that there are many similarities to Rome and today. Knowing this makes no difference. because the situation has become too entrenched . It started in the 80s. . I am in my late 60s and I have never seen a campaign so full of Lies and so down in the Gutter,There is no reprieve and hence no reversal. None. Too many people make decisions on the basis of sound bites and false information. What deal was made with Bill Clinton in just the examples above to come over to the dark side. Stiglitz mentions 2.5 Lobbyists for each member of Congress in the Financial Industry and 6 Lobbyists per member of Congress in the Health Industry. You surely don’t think that members of Congress wrote Obama Care. it was mostly written by the Insurance Industry who was salivating over the prospect of 30 more million people admitted to Health Insurance.The deal was to let them write it and give them waivers etc with no opposition. Then the Democrats stabbed them in the back by forcing them to include putting children in the policies of Parents until they were 26 years old at no cost as well as other things at no cost. Why do you think the price of Insurance has gone up? It was on the other requirements to compensate for it. Then Scotus screwed Congress. The Democrats had threatened the States with with holding existing Medicaid Funds if they didn’t expand Medicaid. Scotus ruled that they could not do this and had to give the funds for the Medicaid patients. So the people who thought they would qualify for expanded Medicaid won’t get it in the States that don’t do it and there is a large number. So these people will not only not get Medicaid but will now also have to pay a “TAX”.
            So I only look at what is best Economically for my family. There is nothing that I can do ad there is not enough people that are knowledgeable about the issues and will vote only for the best candidate to clean house. Stiglitz is correct about the need for balance but it can only get there with an educated and savvy electorate. This stituation doesn’t exist. So your choice is Obama and the Democrats and some level of Recession in the next year or the Republicans which will deny the tax increases and Obama Care and give a few more years breathing room. Then you hope that they will make the necessary changes to reverse it. I don’t see it at this point. I don’t think there is enough of them to make a difference. So your choice is the Fiscal cliff in a year or three years.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles.. I get all you are saying. I hate how I am thinking to answer you. I hate very much what we are left with to choose. I see Obama as the lesser evil and that sucks but I see both Romney-Ryan as sucking more for us, the UN-wealthy, than O. I do not like Romney for things he did religiously and for the things he hides, as in his taxes. I feel if public figures hide things they are doing so because they feel if those things are disclosed we would not like them.

            I do not like Romney for his choice of financial angels when he was having problems securing backers for BAIN while he was starting out. If this, http://truth-out.org/news/item/10876-romneys-death-squad-ties-bain-launched-with-millions-from-oligarchs-behind-salvadoran-atrocities , is true I will never trust him for this alone. Just denials from his court.

            Since he hides things from us I cannot be sure if he didn’t engage those proclaimed tarnished south-of-the-border funds to build Bain. Ryan is just a corporate favored aggressive and that could hurt us. The combination is scary but Obama is no treat either. Medicare is important to so many, as is Social Security, and I am not sure yet how Obama will side phase those issues. But I sense Mitt and company will deliberately try to gut SS and Medicare because that is in the best interests of the corporations.

            To be historically corny for a moment, corporations scare me as they did Thomas Jefferson and others. I see Romney/Ryan as total corporate tools and Obama is who he really is for. I hope Obama is for equal op for both the unwealthy and the corporations but who really knows with politicians.

            So, there I am.

          • Charles Moore

            I don’t see Ryan as corporate aggressive but even if that is the case he is still better for some sort of Budget, Obama is no the lesser of two evils. I have explained in detail how he has trampled on the U.S. Constitution and the Balance of Power. I have also explained in detail how letting the tax breaks expire right now is a Fiscal Cliff within a year. You get a few more years with the Republicans if they are extended in this Economy. It is that simple.

            All of the things you mention only proves that nothing is going to change . Nothing. So the best choice is the Economic Solution. It is too late. I had an argument with my younger brother when they were debating Obama Care. He is an Engineer and makes good money. He is very intelligent but was sucked in by the rhetoric of those that supported it. He thought he was going to get cheaper Insurance.He makes at least 100K a year. I told him that there would most likely be no subsidies for those making te average wage which is about 45K. He accused me of listening to Limbaugh which I never do and being a Right winger etc. I told him then when California was 7 Billion in debt what would happen and why.. He made the same comments. California is now 16 Billion in Debt. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make the horse drink. You can’t depend on the Rhetoric. When he found out that it was written by the Health Insurance Industry and he made too much money he was upset. The only thing he liked was that his sons who had graduated from the Univ Of Texas at Austin and had no job could get on his Policy. He is also a real 2nd Amendment advocate. I take one gun with me. He takes three. He also has an AR15 in his house. He always supported the liberals. He called me the usual names again when I told him Obama was for Gun control. Now he knows and is really upset. He told me that he would never believe anything again and would base his vote only on who supported the 2nd Amendment the most. So this is the problem. A pretty Intelligent person voting only for the person who supports the 2nd Amendment the most. The Country is doomed.You have another problem . The House Republicans have passed 30 pieces of Major Legislation. Who knows if they would have worked and where each member of the Senate stood on the issues as the Democrats who control the Senate has denied a vote on them and denied the people of America a voice on the floor of the Senate. Another four years of this?? I just don’t care about ti anymore and as I explained earlier even Bill Clinton has subverted his own principals for the Party.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore. Real quick. We have a dim future how ever it goes. I remember when I was in school studying fuzzy logic it was hairy for a while but it eventually cleared up. This is so much like that but with less certainty of it clearing. I have a feeling after the election, who ever wins, it will stay fuzzy as the economy slowly improves until it doesn’t again.

            I can sense your frustration over a friend pinning his voting logic on only one issue, especially the 2nd Amendment. I have heard friends say they will vote for Romney primarily because he is more “Christan” than Obama. More fuzzy logic for me, LOL. I can see some of the reasons the Founders put in the 2nd Amendment and I support it even though I can take guns or leave them but I would not base any election or loyalty on one, or even just a few, issues, well, depending on what they might be. Obama seems to be for more gun control laws and not the removal of the 2nd so much but I wont believe more laws could prevent nuts or hate mongers from doing what their demented minds tell them. I wish I knew how to stop the nuts and terrorists.

            Limbaugh is probably listenable for reality only by the writers of SNL,etc.

            I wonder if Bill squeezes more party loyalty out because Hillary might be trotting in 2016…

          • Charles Moore

            You claim that you have read ” the Price of Equality” by Joseph Stiglitz which is very confusing to me considering your support of this Administration. On page 166 Stiglitz starts dealing with Estate taxes, , Mortgage Restructuring and Bailouts. Stiglitz points out what I have stated since 2008.Stiglitz points out that Sweden didn’t do it the American way in the bailouts and was successful. He states that Obama not only bought into the the line that “we needed to save not only the Banks , but the Banks shareholders and bond holders but even lent it an air of authenticity. Stiglitz also points out that this line had no factual basis and was designed to make the worlds most massive transfer of wealth acceptable. Stiglitz also cites that American Law is clear. If a Bank can’t pay what owes and what depositors demand back then it is restructured and shareholder lose everything . Bondholders then become the new shareholders. If there is still not enough money then the Government steps in Bondholders and unsecured creditors lose everything. but insured depositors get back what they have been promised. The bank is saved and the Government will eventually decide to wind it down . reprivatize it or merge it with a healthier bank,We could have saved the Banking Sector, protected depositors and maintained a flow f credit all at less cost to the taxpayer by following the ordinary rules of Capitalism also cited by Stiglitz, The Economy’s interest could have been better protected and a sense of fairness in our system better preserved . Again Stiglitz. He further states that “if Obama and BUSH had played by the ordinary rules of Capitalism rather than making up the rules as they went along.As i stated before. The money was supposed to recapitalize the banks which was supposed to lead to more lending as there was a credit crisis. It could not have happened without the approval of the Democrats who took control of both Houses of Congress on January 3. 2007 . Obama not only bought into it but he authenticated the world’s most transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. And you think that he is the lessor of two evils? BTW. Romney was never against the Bailout of the Auto companies. He was for the Bailout by by the ” Rule of American Law” with a Bankruptcy.

            As for Restructured Mortgages Stiglitz again details it on page 170. Stiglitz cites that the banks saw the restructuring mortgages that would make them recognize their losses and outcome they had kept at bay with deceptive accounting maneuvers Stiglitz then states that the “Obama Admiinstration and the Bankers didn’t present their case this way”and that the Obama Administration advanced two main arguments for not doing much for homeowners which were “It would be unfair to help them when so many good and responsible citizens worked hard and paid off their mortgages or were current on payments and if individuals were left off the hook it would undermine the incentive to repay.Of course , the latter is exactly what the Obama administration did with all their so called Home rescues only applied to Homeowners who were behind a certain number of payments which gave those who were making their payments to get behind in order to qualify.

            I won’t go over again how President Clinton has prostituted a great record regarding his Welfare Reform as well as his fiscal Policy for the sake of this Administration.

            Finally. I was surfing Yahoo Finance yesterday when I saw an article with the head line that David Stockman who was the head of Management and Budget under President Reagan was castigating Ryan.

            1. He attacked Ryan and Romney of their plan to reduce taxes for by 20% for everybody including the Wealthy, This is incredible. Under Stockman and Reagan the top rate was reduced from 70% to 39%.
            2. He attacked Ryan and Romney for advocating an increase in Defense Spending. .Also incredible. The Reagan Administration dramatically increased Military Spending and then bragged that it was responsible for ending the Cold war,
            3. He also stated that Romney and Ryan wanted to get rid of the Safety net for the poor by a Reduction in Food Stamps. Actually they want to reduce Fraud in it and the fact that people are using these EBT cards for purchasing Alcohol and Cigarettes etc, In some cases they were even used in ‘ “Strip clubs”.
            So here we have Stockman that oversaw an increase in Spending that started this escalation of the National Debt and reduced the top tax rate from 70% to 39% who is now an advocate of the “Poor”. Of course, you have the usual ‘Parrots”who are stating that “Reagans” man for the Budget is demonstrating that Ryan is……………………………………..”who are obviously either ignorant of the facts or just don’t care about the truth.

            So I am a little confused as to how you can support what is either the gross ineptness of this Administration regarding Economics or the giveaways to the Bankers. Has to be one of the other. The campaign Slogan of Obama is “Shared Prosperity”. In other words there is no increase in the size of the Pie. it is the sharing of a pie of the same size. A code word for Redistribution of Wealth. There can be no other Definition. Even Stiigllitz is in favor of Capitalism and the American Rule of Capitalism.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles…. Please do not confuse my support for this admin for agreement with all their policies. I go by the issue and not the admin or the party after I try to under the policy. I am not so much for mortgage bailouts except for on an individual basis, if that is possible. I say that because Clinton told the banks to help the house hunter get a house. It was the unscrupulous nature of the banks which duped many mortgage signers.

            “He states that Obama not only bought into the the line that “we needed to save not only the Banks , but the Banks shareholders and bond holders but even lent it an air of authenticity”.  I think Obama became an expert on politics and he is told a lot of what to say on so many of things he doesnl;t know about. That’s shy they have advisors. I see loads of problems saving the banks who flim flamed the buyer and as for the share holders. Well, they should know what they are supporting. I lost on some stock a few years ago because I thought I knew the company but I have to say I was blind because it was so lucrative at the time of purchase.

            I worked for banks, both commercial and the NY Fed. I do not like them in general but I still seem to have an interest in how they flow. I have seen a number of banks absorbed by larger more solvent Banks. I spent my college years working for Wachovia BK & T in Winston-Salem, NC. They are all the same and my dad would say they are necessary evils but I wish I could get along with out any of them but that is my fault because they are so convenient.

            Shareholders are that in all corporations. They want their returns and banks have many of us by they sack. I have a friend who told me he was confused because his credit card minimum payment, since the previous month, was lower than the fees they added. I do not care what banks say, they want everyone to pay the minimum payment so they can collect more than they risk and keep us in debt so much longer. The shareholders do not care either.

            You might have heard more about Romney not being against the auto bailout but I thought I heard him say “let Detroit die” and help the banks. Maybe what I heard was more slant. I am looking deeper into Ryan’s plans ( I am still against SS vouchers (of any type) and as I heard him talk about them) and Romney’s tax proposal. I need to be a millionaire to be liked by them in those proposals from what I see on the surface. I would enjoy a conversation with Ryan on general financing.

            I have to find my copy of “the Price of Equality”, its hidden in all my carp, to get more specific with you but I think I would enjoy that.Charles…. Please do not confuse my support for this admin for agreement with all their policies. I go by the issue and not the admin or the party after I try to under the policy. I am not so much for mortgage bailouts except for on an individual basis, if that is possible. I say that because Clinton told the banks to help the house hunter get a house. It was the unscrupulous nature of the banks which duped many mortgage signers.

            “He states that Obama not only bought into the the line that “we needed to save not only the Banks , but the Banks shareholders and bond holders but even lent it an air of authenticity”.  I think Obama became an expert on politics and he is told a lot of what to say on so many of things he doesnl;t know about. That’s shy they have advisors. I see loads of problems saving the banks who flim flamed the buyer and as for the share holders. Well, they should know what they are supporting. I lost on some stock a few years ago because I thought I knew the company but I have to say I was blind because it was so lucrative at the time of purchase.

            I worked for banks, both commercial and the NY Fed. I do not like them in general but I still seem to have an interest in how they flow. I have seen a number of banks absorbed by larger more solvent Banks. I spent my college years working for Wachovia BK & T in Winston-Salem, NC. They are all the same and my dad would say they are necessary evils but I wish I could get along with out any of them but that is my fault because they are so convenient.

            Shareholders are that in all corporations. They want their returns and banks have many of us by they sack. I have a friend who told me he was confused because his credit card minimum payment, since the previous month, was lower than the fees they added. I do not care what banks say, they want everyone to pay the minimum payment so they can collect more than they risk and keep us in debt so much longer. The shareholders do not care either.

            You might have heard more about Romney not being against the auto bailout but I thought I heard him say “let Detroit die” and help the banks. Maybe what I heard was more slant. I am looking deeper into Ryan’s plans ( I am still against SS vouchers (of any type) and as I heard him talk about them) and Romney’s tax proposal. I need to be a millionaire to be liked by them in those proposals from what I see on the surface. I would enjoy a conversation with Ryan on general financing.

            I have to find my copy of “the Price of Equality”, its hidden in all my carp, to get more specific with you but I think I would enjoy that.

          • Charles Moore

            My comments addressed the fact that you stated that Obama was the lesser of two evils because he favored the least help to Corporations and the Rich. This is not true.
            1. Obama and the Democrats were responsible for authenticating the most “Massive” transfer of wealth in the World to the Corporations and the Rich. Not just the U,S but in the World.
            2. There is always Cronyism in all Administrations. This one took it to a new height. There was over 1/2 Billion dollars of tax payer money given to Solyndra although it was on shaky ground .As if this wasn’t had enough this Administration structured the Loan so that in case of Bankruptcy the investors came before the taxpayer in any Recovery which is against Federal Law.

            I am finally glad to see that somebody such as Neil Barofsky has come out with the truth about the Bailout. and Stiglitz on the TARP and Mortgage Restructuring. . I have said from the onset that the only way to save or at least abate the Housing Crisis was to use some Funds given to the Banks to reduce the Mortgages to their true value by reducing them. Because of the 13 consecutive interest rate raises by the Fed the people who had ARMS and they were the most saw their monthly payments go up mas much as 80%, So a person with a $1500 payment now had a $2700 payment and even the ones who had breathing room for an increase was squeezed out.If the Loans had been reduced to the lesser principal and recalculated the amount would be lower and even more lower when the Fed lowered rates to almost zero. It has been suggested now but it is tool late. There would have been an outcry if done at first as being unfair. I paid my House off early in 2005. Yet it went down in value 17% last year. I still pay the a little more Insurance every year because regardless of the Assessment the Insurance companies go by replacement value from the ground up which is “replacement ” value and is $150,000. Even it goes down in value next year and replacement value goes up next year then I will pay more for it. I don’t care because at my age etc will not be selling it even though it is probably too big for just me and my wife and our three dogs. Reducing the principal on the Loans wlll not be tolerated now because of how the money was wasted before. If it had been done in the beginning then you wouldn’t see the present disaster. Again Obama bought into and let it happen. The original idea as I mentioned at the onset and Stiglitz mentions now was to restructure the mortgages and recapitalize the Banks so that they could lend the money and stave off the Credit Crunch. Instead the Democrats give the Funds to the Treasury instead of allocating it themselves for the targeted purpose as mandated by the U.S. Constitution since Congress as sole responsibility for the monies. .Since Paulson was leaving office the Funds were given to an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury who was also a former executive of Goldman Sachs who then made such actions as giving 180 Billion to AIG who used the Funds for lush executive bonuses. As Stiglitz cites: They didn’t call them “incentive bonuses” and changed the name to “retention bonuses” etc.

            It is immaterial to me who you vote for,however, don’t use the reason of who is most favorable to the corporations and the wealthy when this Administration and the Democrats are directly responsible for the most massive transfer of wealth in the history of the World then and since then to Corporations and the Wealthy. I will not vote for Obama for that and many other reasons but if he is re-elected I won’t cry about it as I will be in a position to take advantage of a drop in the Stock market etc a lot quicker .

      • Lore

        So where did the miscommunication from what I said bring in Plato? He invented socialism true but he didn’t create the communist manifesto. To even mention that I read half of your statement because it was irrelevant to what my point was. Nor did I say anything on who wrote what first. For you to defend such nonsense is stupid. You want to claim democracy is the best but again I am going to reiterate that our country was founded as a REPUBLIC. Don’t forget that! A republic was exactly, what you claim in your book of Plato, equal and dependent of each house and independent in power. I shouldn’t have to defend my views but this will turn in to a flames session either way. Your e-peen is bigger than the next guy because you are ignorant and don’t want to pay attention to detail shipmate.

        Democracy doesn’t work it never has. It literally means rule by the people. People when in masses become sheeple. Like lemmings the mass will follow the leader over a cliff. Rather than trying to bash me try spreading the information if you ARE a patriot.

        • Charles Moore

          There is no such thing as Communism. Pure Communism would mean that everybody shared the same eating facilities and ate the same food. Shopped in the same Department Stores etc. The ruling party in Russia had privileges such as Housing and they shopped in better stores etc. There are just varying degrees of Socialism .

          • Jeff

            Reading you and Lore going at it is kind of like reading Gibbon and Hegel arguing – while on an acid trip!

          • Lore

            This debate is necessary though. People will read this and hopefully learn from this.

      • Lore

        And a final note on this, Rome and Greece controlled their masses eventually losing the money they had and its value because of the the Colosseum. Is this ringing a bell to any sports fans out there? Quell the rage through entertainment. History is repeating itself.

        • Charles Moore

          Moire nonsense. You need to do some research and get your facts. The Sports you refer to were distractions used to hide the Problems which already existed and were not a cause of their demise.

      • Lore

        Rather than you suggesting books written by possible socialists, I suggest you read up on “Red” Beckman Democracy VS. Constitutional Republic. And I sir have seen communism in play so you are all kinds of stupid. Communism does exist and the only way it can thrive is through FEAR. You are now just trying to build your e-peen. I know I am right and there is nothing you can say to me otherwise. And I know you think you are right and nothing I can say otherwise. But keep in mind when the war breaks out I will have tried my hardest to educate the people to think outside the box and come to a decision of their own volition. I truly hope you are educated to know what these words I use mean.

        • Charles Moore

          Is this a Joke. You are trying to compare authors such as Gibbons and Durant with Red Beckman who got together with a Charlatan such as Benson who claimed that the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution was illegal because it wasn’t properly ratified?Several people went to Prison because of Benson via several Courts and Benson was convicted of Fraud via the Internet. These people are an example of your great reading experience?There is no such thing as pure Communism. People might call it communism just as the present POTUS calls a “tax: a penalty.True communism can only exist if each and every person in the Society shares exactly the same things. They eat the same food at the same communal dining hall. They live in the exact same type houses and they have to shop at the same place etc. This was not the case in Russia and it was not the case in China although one was closer to it than the others. .

          • Lore

            I take it you haven’t seen it personally so you are just among the many ignorant out there. I have no need to listen to your statements since you would rather up your e-peen. You think inside the box. Opposed to realizing that everything you are saying will come to pass anyhow you would rather flame me since this is probably all you look forward to in life is bashing others points of view who have seen what true terror looks like. But you are probably someone who has never left the states to begin with and only source what you read or see on TV. Get a better picture of whats going on imo maybe you will feel better about your problem.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    Most students I have ever known did not have $15,000.00 to spend as cash on weapons. I know I don’t and I have taken care to keep enough to eat from over the years. Where did this money come from?

  • Pingback: Just Training or is it Patrolling in Sheboygan WI

  • Drakuz

    lets be as blatant as possible.
    i like to put obfuscation to the side. as forcefully as possible….
    so skip the rants :D

    do you or do you not want your guns?

  • Drakuz

    p.s. charles moore is an idiot.
    i can see both sides of the fence. yes he can act alone.
    if i wanted to get into a place with that door, i could. you bet your butt i could. as simple as taping (there is a reason for the tape..) a plastic card in the door lock, then forcefully pulling it shut from the inside (obviously prior to the incident, i feel due to some people this is necessary to post) you can then later from the outside kick the door having it bounce back for 1 reason only. to make it look like you had help and to make it look like a conspiracy.

    the otherside of the story is there is no conspiracy and the guy is a nut ball… which he obviously was… afterall he is the joker…

    and if you cant argue both sides of the fence, well your narrow-minded.

    after arguing both sides of the fence there is 1 thing you have left.

    what side do you stand on? do you or do you not want your guns?
    (id like you to imagine yourself in that theater btw.)

    • Charles Moore

      You have to be Lore and have changed your name. All of this has already been covered. it has already been established that Holmes acted alone. It has already been established that he came into the theater as a normal patron. parked his car near the exit door in the rear and then went out to it and fixed the door someway so he could re-enter after getting the weapons etc. So what is all this “credit card “nonsense etc at this stage of the game?. The Idiot is you.

      • Drakuz

        You have to be Lore and have changed your name.
        haha no im not, why dont you google the greatest jerk ever to grace the internet Drakuz or Drakuz DarkSith or DrakuzDarkSith@yahoo.com.

        All of this has already been covered.
        no [expletive deleted]
        it has already been established that Holmes acted alone. It has already been established that he came into the theater as a normal patron. parked his car near the exit door in the rear and then went out to it and fixed the door someway so he could re-enter after getting the weapons etc. So what is all this “credit card “nonsense etc at this stage of the game?.

        incorrect again. to act alone he would have to jam something in the door from the inside. and you cant use a card from the outside. you cannot kick, nor pull those doors, there is no handle, and the direction you would be kicking the metal door… it doesnt swing that way, sorry this door isnt bi-sexual it doesnt swing both ways.

        you obviously cannot argue both sides of this fence, so being that you made up your mind as to “what the answer is” i guess you got it all figured out, plz call up CNN and forward your crime-solving materiel so that the world can be a better place. and tell them that you figured this all out from your home computer reading news reports….

      • Lore

        I’m not drakuz you moron!

        • Jeff

          Why don’t you two get a room already?

  • Drakuz

    Is this a Joke. You are trying to compare authors such as Gibbons and Durant with Red Beckman who got together with a Charlatan such as Benson who claimed that…
    his favorite color is blue!

    nobody cares what he had for breakfast or if he is a good author.

    plz stop wasting everyones time and make your point :)

  • Drakuz

    charles moore i will give you a bag of cookies if you can make a statement with a point in it. AND not include meaningless drivel such as you nay-saying someone else and going off on a tangent that nobody cares about. plz leave your A.D.D. out of all arguements.
    you will be more productive like that.

    • Charles Moore

      Are you really that stupid? Your comments make you look like it. Perhaps you and Lore are the same person. If you were really that competent then you would tell me that I am wrong on which point and then I would respond to it. By just making stupid comments such as this post without substance you are merely demonstrating your incompetence.

      • Drakuz

        “Are you really that stupid? Your comments make you look like it. Perhaps you and Lore are the same person. If you were really that competent then you would tell me that I am wrong on which point and then I would respond to it. By just making stupid comments such as this post without substance you are merely demonstrating your incompetence.”

        pot… kettle… rofl i bet your christian too… what we need more of in the world is hypocrites lol.

        charles moore i will give you a bag of cookies if you can make a statement with a point in it. AND not include meaningless drivel such as you nay-saying someone else and going off on a tangent that nobody cares about. plz leave your A.D.D. out of all arguements.
        you will be more productive like that.

        asking for you to produce something with materiel and content in it. and asking you to stay on one topic, i see that as very compitent and i also see that i am asking you to put in substance. plz dont rebut my statement with the exact same thing. it makes you look like an idiot.

      • Drakuz

        charles moore here wonders around in all black a grappling hook at night, oh and swords cuz in the 21st century this is the “most” practical weapon of choice. he calls myself Batmoore

      • Drakuz

        so Batmoore what are you going to do today? are you going to regurgitate responses with copy/paste?

        so would your superhuman weapon be CTRL+V?

  • Drakuz

    p.s. i am painfully honest charles. ill make you get to your point and ill make you stop wasting everyones time on here.

    btw, how do you like my views being forced upon you?
    what about my ability to control you and tell you how to argue?

    it really sux when your liberty is taken away :(

  • Eloquus

    If James Holmes is a patsy, instability obviously will not prevent him from being blamed. Being set up to take the blame is the definition of patsy. He was a PhD student in good standing until his last exam. Could he already have been under the influence of scopolamine in combination with hypnosis and was being prepared by his mind-control handlers? How long had he been seeing the school psychiatrist and why? Do you consider PhD candidates in psychoneurology likely for mental illness? The gun control angle on the UN small arms treaty was a false flag since it was “dead in the water” but that whole argument could have been designed as a false flag to cover up the Aurora massacre’s intended impact on the LIBOR investigation. The real target was to shut up investigators, not just James’ father, Robert Holmes, but all of them. Was it effective? And HOW! Prosecution was shut down for Goldman Sachs and those giant US financial corporations known to be right in the thick of it! As for James’ parents not being able to afford to provide a better lawyer for James, if they were of modest means (his mom an RN who aren’t highly paid) his defense might be beyond their ability, but especially more likely, their own lawyer made the recommendation. I know that these questions are beyond your or my ability to answer and I don’t expect either of us can prove beyond the others doubts, however, when some must resort to insult, name calling and hyperbolie, I will accept that as an admission that they cannot believe it possible but cannot disprove it with facts. So, can you explain the bloody footprints that led from theater nine exit past the car where James Holmes was found and on toward the corner of the building where another gas mask was found directly below the security camera? Bloody footprints that didn’t lead to James Holmes and an additional gas mask where a get away car could wait should be evidence worth consideration and which point to a set up if ignored. Eye witnesses and police dispatch audio confirmed belief in multiple perps but perhaps too quickly the single gunman was announced. Economics and politics are apples and oranges but that is really just logical fallacy used for deception because crime, fraud and corruption can easily produce connections between them. Sort of an apple and orange salad.

    Sent from my iPad

    • Publius

      I don’t care if you have an iPad. You did not mention that if James was wearing all the gear, including a gas mask, that indicated to police that he was the shooter where they found him sitting in the car, then who took off all the other gear next to the car and down the sidewalk? Who broke out the window and why? Why was there a spine board under the car? Why does the car have Tennessee plates? Was James covered with blood? How could he have been so drugged and have run down the sidewalk to drop gear leaving bloody footprints but none tracking back to the vehicle? Who was wearing that other gas mask they tagged at the end of the building under the security camera? There are more questions that nobody in the media is asking. Why not?

      • Drakuz

        There are more questions that nobody in the media is asking. Why not?

        Simple Answer:

        we dont have all the facts, we’re not going to get all the facts, and his juror’s will have that information at there disposal to decide an outcome.

        fact: the media sux.
        fact: the media solves nothing, who cares how many questions they ask (or how much drama they stir up.)

        they are to inform us of what is going on, they are not to be crime scene investigator’s and neither are you.

        they’re job is to regurgitate information back to us from what is fed to them by police/investigator’s

  • Drakuz

    dont blame the media, but dont rely on them to solve an answer that they themselves are not and cannot investigate. there job is to inform us. that is all.

  • Ranchman

    Eddie47D is your typical Liberal troll that those who love the Constitution and the notion of freedom and liberty find on Conservative websites. They come here spouting their liberal insults, speaking vile things to those who are otherwise welcome here. This, I have found, is typical of all liberals/progressives/socialists/marxists/filthy communists, etc. Whatever they feel like calling themselves this week (kind of like their buddies, the gender confused, you know, the ones who can’t figure out if they’re male or female). Brother and Sister Patriots, these are the filthy scum that we are up against. Never does an intelligent argument pass their lips, it’s always insults, and usually obscene ones at that. I desire an America like it used to be, not oppressive and tyrannical, nor one that incrementally takes your rights away from you, shredding our Constitution in the process, but the Republic with the vision of our Founding Fathers, one of all men being equal, with all having equal opportunities, albeit different outcomes depending on our own efforts. The Communist movement in America has infiltrated every aspect of our society, just as Idaho State Representative Curtis Bowers outlined in his documentary “Agenda: Grinding America Down”, found at http://www.agendadocumentary.com. It’s a damn good DVD and it will really open your eyes as to the threat before us all. We have GOT to get our heads around this fact. If we don’t, we will lose this Republic forever and the Communists will win. You need to go to that website and watch the trailer, if you haven’t already seen it. Then, get prepared. This ain’t over by a long shot. Something wicked this way comes. My hope and prayer is that there are enough Patriots left in this country to do what we did to the British because what they’re doing to us now is much, much worse.

  • Drakuz

    all in all, im not worried about this. the guy is going to go to jail and either die or spend the rest of his life there. thats it. their is nothing really to discuss.

    the vote didnt pass so it obviously had no effect. however, i will admit it does look sneaky doesnt it for this to happen 1 week b4 that vote.

  • Drakuz

    i would be more worried about “what provoked him” kids today are retarded.
    they have no respect, they sag their pants, they wear ironed flat bills on their hats.

    sure alot of this can be called “faddish” fine, its a fad, i get it.
    however look at these kids attitudes. each generation has less and less respect than the other. its really just a matter of time b4 CONUS is a prison and we are left to fend for ourselves tooth and nail.

  • http://yahoo vet

    dont think anyone would be ignorant enough to think they could sucessfully go door to door to confiscate personal firearms ! i do
    nt know any cops or military personnell fhat would participate either ! sure hope they would be smarter than that total anarchy hell powers that be cant even control radical countries
    too many guns here thank God to make it feasible speaking as a vet mine are definitely off limits for confiscation reason why usa cant be invaded with small arms

    • Charles Moore

      Don’t count on people not being ignorant. There was no chance of the Arm,Treaty of being approved at all. It takes 51 of 100 U.S. Senators to ratify it. There were at least 57 U.S. Senators who were going to vote against it. .It was dead on arrival. The people on here who think that it was staged can’t explain why they would stage the shooting when it wasn’t going to be approved anyway. Now that is Ignorant.

  • http://twitter.com/saidliz41 Liz Said (@saidliz41)

    yes they are trying to take all our rights away…the flase flag..attacks our consitution..our amendments…marshall law..but if you try to tell people they think your a nut case..until its too late…god bless us all

    • Jeff

      Sad Liz:

      When you say crazy stuff, sane people tend to dismiss you as crazy. Is that so hard to understand? If you can actually support what you say with evidence and logic (not leaps of faith), people are less likely to dismiss you as crazy.

      • Charles Moore

        No different than others who parrot the information they are spoon fed and then when shown the facts ignore them. The latter are much worse.

  • Lawrence

    I would first like to express my condoleces to the victims, 2nd, the means by which this catastrophy was implimented is at question, days after the shooting, witnesses came forward with testimony about a second shooter, also, if you check your history books, you will not find anyone that commits these crimes loafing around the parking lot afterwards and just give up without a fight, 99 percent of the time, the shooters have to be killed to stop them, with all the info about the gov. agency bullet orders, i too agree that this is part of a bigger plan to gain control over the citzens, along with the power to declare marshal law without iminent danger to the public also backs this up. Then you have devout muslims 9 devout muslims brought down the 9/11 events) that have been appointed to key positions of power and control of Homeland security, yes, i could be made to believe the Obama admin. would sacrfice any individual right or person, or population to acheive the success of their plan to deminish the use to a third world country and controllable by the UN, i will not live by those rules, live free or die a slave, it is a choice we must make and rid the US of this type of rule

    • Charles Moore

      That is nonsense

      • Jeff

        Charles:

        I hope this doesn’t mean I’m ignorant, but I agree with your last comment.

        • Charles Moore

          People don’t have to be ignorant to make ignorant statements or even parrot them etc. What I don’t understand is the number of people that keep repeating that there is some sort of Conspiracy involved with the incident.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    All past court decisions have been in favor of all citizens having the right to the same arms that military has. If you don’t agree with our rights then get the hell out of our nation. Those that are against our Constitution should be deported. If you are against us then you should be elsewhere. You should have no rights if you’re against rights for other people. Pressing the rights of others for your private agendas will end in violent resistance, and God defend the right.

    • Jeff

      Wiley:

      Take your gun and shove it up your coyote. The 2nd amendment was never intended to give you the same weaponry as the Army. The first clause is there for a reason. It clearly implies and assumes the ability of the State to “well regulate” the distribution of firearms. Good luck building your own little militia complete with atomic weapons.

      • Charles Moore

        I thought that I kept pretty much up to date and I have never seen any Court decision that granted the citizens the same weapons as the Military. The people that lived in 1776 would have been able to have the same weapons as the Militia at that time and the people that lived in the Stone age would have had the same weapons. State Senator Obama sponsored and passed Legislation in Illinois that allowed “Only” Retired Police officers to carry a concealed weapon in order to get the endorsement of the Police Unions for his run for U.S. Senator. I don’t see his home town of Chicago granting this privilege to anybody else. I do see now POTUS Obama and Hilliary Clinton trying to get us under the U.N. Arms treaty.

        • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

          You need to read the decisions. Just google the Supreme Court Decisions on the 2nd Amendment. In fact they said that the Constitution did not grant the rights of the 1st and 2nd Amendments as they existed before the document. This is why, though closely monitored, even machine guns are legal still. It was necessary to more closely control full auto weapons since criminals are allowed to run wild even to this day in the USA. My belief is that responsible people should in no way be restricted in their ownership of any individual weapon. Bringing nuclear weapons into the mix like Jeff just shows his ignorance as the right just deals with individual protection. Again I say, read the decisions.

          • Charles Moore

            You need to lay off the K.A. I am a Vet and all Military weapons are not legal for Citizens. Try getting on a Military base in a State where you have a CCW permit. If what you say is true then each and every State would have to allow its Residents to carry any and all weapons used by the Military including Bazookas and Grenade Launchers.

          • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

            Simpleton, just get a Third Class Federal Firearms License. Any current fully auto weapon is allowed as well as silencers.

          • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

            Does that mean a Veteran or Animal Doctor. It’s easy to claim Veteran status online. I am one also. It appears that I know the laws better than you though which tells me you aren’t up on truth at all. I’m a member of Post 316 American legion in Cherokee County GA. If you’re a real Veteran we would welcome you at one of our meetings and will gladly educate you in the law as many of our members are police.

          • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

            So have you looked up what is legal for Third Class Federal Firearms License Holders? Gee, seems grenade launchers ARE legal!

      • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

        Piss ants should not second guess or interpret the Constitution. This is why the justices wrote in their opinions that the word arms does not refer to every day sporting weapons but even machine guns that are still legal, just not for mental midgets like you and your kind. Machine guns, fully automatic are still legal for trustworthy citizens, you moron.

      • Jeff

        Wiley Coyote:

        I know about the decisions including the recent one by Scalito, et. al. completely ignoring the first clause of the 2nd amedment. As you probably know from othe issues, the Supreme Court is not final because it’s infallible; it’s infallible because it’s final. They are often wrong. I believe the Republican Supreme Court (5-4 decision) is wrong in its intepretation, wrong in its history, and wrong as a matter of policy. And yes, Mr. Coyote, I have every right to express my opinion and say the fascist Supreme Court is wrong. I wish you and the Acme Company every happiness.

        • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

          People like you make me sorry I became a disabled Veteran fighting for your rights as you are against others having any. I am glad that there are other, better people that support the Constitution. Since you are of your own mind, why don’t you just go somewhere else since there are so many “wrong” people here. People that hate the Constitution should not live under it. Get away from here. Decent people don’t need your kind fouling the nation.

          • Jeff

            So you fought for my right to agree with you? Or did you fight only for the 2nd amendment and not the 1st? Where in the Constituion you love your interpretation of is the Love It Or Leave It clause? I’ve been hearing it from right wingers since Viet Nam and it’s always been nonsene. You are not the only one entitled to an opinion and differing about the interpretaton of the constitution is no the same as hating the constitution. I find it hard to believe you are as foolish as you sound.

            So, it’s OK to criticize Cout opinions from the “right” but not from the “left.” It’s good that we have someone like you to tell us who is legitimately allowed to express the “proper” opinions.

          • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

            Then you should agree that when the system decides something you don’t agree with that you have to live with it. I have had to live with decisions I don’t agree with. To call them wrong when you don’t agree is narcissistic.

  • Pingback: So You Think You Are Free? : Personal Liberty Alerts

  • Michael

    His Father “I did not have sexual relations with that woman” His little brother “We ad no knowledge of FAST & FURIOUS” & him, he read from the monitor “TRUST ME”

    • Jeff

      So, who orchestrated the Aurora, CO shooting? Obama? Hillary? Bill? Eric? Or, maybe it was Oliver North working out of the basement of the White House? And if the worst thing you can say about Clinton after 8 years in office is he lied about a blow job, after the 8 years of meaningful mendacity that followed, I guess he’ll have to live with your disapproval.

  • Mike Arroyo

    Governments and conspiracies? Who would have ever thought that to be possible, eh? Controlling populations and their actions are as old as civilization itself. From the Ancients to this point, it has always been the case and always will until control is no longer granted to a select few by the masses to make our decisions and policies for us. Unfortunately, most people are working hard (like my roommate, 50 hour weeks for peanuts and she is simply too tired to do anything outside of voting), or me, working super part time, trying to keep all my creditors, utilities and my landlord at bay, preoccupied with attempting to find ‘bona fide’ work. Meanwhile, the puppet masters are above us, pulling the strings and stringing us along at the same time. Many of them do nothing else then dream up ways of controlling, or at least, trying dilligently to control us. Meantime, we are ‘pawns’ in their sick little game of self perpetuated ‘kismet’ (a dice game of fate).

    I live in Aurora, Colorado and literally only two blocks south of the Century 16 Theater. I was up working on trying to get loans to pay bills on my computer (going into debt to get out of debt, ha! ha! And looking for work! [I am doled out 18-23 hour weeks for less than $10 per hour). While doing this, I heard sirens. And although we notice them at any given time, day or night, the ones I heard just between midnight and 1 am were not only consistent and ongoing, they increased in volume and voracity. My first response after this persistent session after a half hour was, “What in the @#$% are those ‘gang bangers’ up to now? Must be a busy night!” It was like any sweltering summer night with temps outside still at 80 degrees and my mind concluded, ‘Probably another gang warfare, drug deal gone bad!’ We’re used to that and that was what I figured it to be, business as usual for youths in that trade. However, I was awaken by my boss from work at 9:45 am to be asked on the phone, “Were you at the Batman movie last night?” I responded, “No. I haven’t been to the movies since ’97 when I saw ‘Star Trek: Resurrection’.” He went further to tell me that, “There was a shooting last night at the Century 16 Theater last night. Just wanted to make sure that you were O. K.” Of course, I thanked him for his concern and went back to sleep. Later, I rose up in the afternoon and went back to my quest for money and employment online. It was there where news dripped in throught USA Today and other internet sources that, ‘Last night’s shooting at the Century 16 Theater in Aurora, Colorado has left 12 dead and 58 wounded…” That was an eye opener. So apparently, my problems were dwarfed in comparison and the incident was not just another ‘business as usual by rival gangs over drug turf’ situation. I went to work at 5 pm that evening as scheduled and nautrally, the whole thing was ‘the talk of the town’, so to speak. When I reflected upon James Holmes statement, “I am the Joker!”, to Aurora Police, my comments were, “I am the Joker? Yeah, right! Some @#$%*^& joke, pal!” It also made my quest to find a roommate even harder since Aurora has the unfortunate reputation of being like ‘the Wild West’, due to a lot of gun related crimes and incidents. It made my asking price for a boarder to drop even further, as a result.

    Meantime, a young gal that I work with said, “I was going to see the movie that night, but decided against it for I had too many other things to do that night.” Lucky her, eh? I would have been devastated if, she too, had become a victim. A fellow that I work with was hit hard by that because he works at a college where one of his students had been on the so called ‘Hit Parade’ of victims at the theater. No one was happy, nor amused by any of this.

    Two weeks later, I had to walk down Sable Boulevard (the street adjacent to the Century 16 Theater) to file some paperwork with Arapahoe County just one block north of the crime scene in question. It was very eerie! On my left, I had to walk over part of the yellow ‘Do not cross-crime scene’ tape that partially fell on the sidewalk while noting a Steven King ‘The Stand’ kind of scenario, where there was no one left, a deserted parking lot with an empty police car parked there and nothing else. Across the busy street to my right was a multicolored area in an open field that, at first, looked like a ‘fireworks stand’, (thought is was a few weeks after July 4th). It turned out to be a bustiling and crowed ‘memorial and vigil’ for the recent victims of the horrid attack! People of every variety had been there next to crosses with names of the unwitting dead, balloons, teddy bears, banners, pictures, along with the figures going about, taking pictures, going back and forth, et cetera. It was an absolute contrast indeed. One side of the road, absolute abandonment of life. On the other, nothing but life. Weird is an understatement regarding all of that.

    Now, we hardly talk about that at all, though it does come to our minds and conversations, nonetheless. We are all victims, from those at ‘ground zero’, to those that might have been there, to those that personally knew victims, and me, disaffected by any of and all that. But it hits home, regardless, for I am part of the community.

    As mentioned, are politicians to blame? I don’t think so. Obama with gun control and Romney without gun control. Neither are the solution nor to really blame. Is the U. S. Government to blame, via weird MK-Ultra experimentation? Perhaps. Perhaps not. All that matters to us that live here is that an intelligent youth took it upon himself to perform such a terrible thing and our lives are forever changed because of that. The people here are in the middle of everything and will remain so for eternity! We can only hope that lessons were learned, justice will be served and the victims..find peace once and for all, whether living or dead.

    God bless us all!

  • Dick

    I began that reply, Jay, with what I thought was an apology for not being clear, and I get this? Gosh. It’s obvious you’re so-o-o much cleverer than me, or even telepathic, given that you know so much about my personality and its apparently all-too-obvious faults from such small evidence.

    “a Narcissistic personality disorder”? wow.
    “possessed of a bloated sense of self-importance” (gee)
    “coupled with a lack of empathy for others” (heavens)

    “Your comment clearly reveals an exaggerated sense of your own importance and abilities, and no doubt, you spend a great deal of time fantasizing about them, don’t you?” (wow, you got me there – how did you know?)
    “People who suffer from a disorder such as yours, as well, have a sense of entitlement, expecting, and taking for granted, special treatment and concessions from others.”

    (my my, you are so observant, so astute, so perspicacious. I’m impressed. There’s obviously someone here with an exaggerated sense of his own importance and abilities… but alas, it ain’t me)

    “Paradoxically, individuals with your narcissistic personality disorder are generally very insecure and suffer from low self-esteem.”
    (I do hope you’re not a psychiatrist, because if you are, you’re a very poor one who must be doing a lot of damage in the exercise of his craft, and one whose main skill seems to be only that of transference. You want to take a look in the mirror, because you’re obviously describing something you’re very familiar with, and that can’t be me)

    Given that you felt yourself justified in, and must have enjoyed, delivering all that vituperation and insult (you are SO smart!), I’ll be more measured, and restrict myself to a few words in rejoinder. I’m not a cruel man, a mere engineer. I won’t call your mental health into question, as you do mine. You’re a prat.

  • JeffH

    Dave67, so sensitive…wah, wah, wah! Would you like some cheese to go with your whine? Masters of lying? ROFLMAO! If you can’t handle the truth, you’re free to move on(dot org).

    By the way, you should really read this book ” Plundered: How Progressive Ideology Is Destroying America”, Michael S. Coffman, Ph.D., exposes the harm being done to America by progressives (socialists) who have achieved great influence in government and in both the Democratic and Republican parties, and he outlines a program to rescue America and return the nation he loves to the principles of good government.
    http://www.shop.epi-us.com/PLUNDERED-How-Progressive-Ideology-is-Destroying-America-B-PLUNDER.htm

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    Arrogant gnat.

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    Don’t be lame. Name one freedom that Obama has taken away that wasn’t previously taken away under the Patriot Act.

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    Jay, this should be a no-brainer for you. Name one freedom that Obama has taken away that wasn’t previously taken away under the Patriot Act. I mean, Obama is SO evil that I’m assuming that you can come up with dozens of them. I’m just asking for one.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    And you’re a befouled, vitiated poltroon, Dick.

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    HEYa! Whaddya know – Ignatius Piazza is a Scientologist who tried to sue a customer for calling him a Scientologist! He settled out of court, of course, because Scientologists are scumbags.

  • ann

    You are nuts!!!!!!!

  • Jeff

    The Scalito Twins are so proud of you. So I suppose keeping military weapons off the streets is a non-starter for you?

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    They obviously consider you a serious threat, DaveH. Otherwise, the progressive-machine would not have sent their best sock-puppets after you; larry, curly and moe.

  • DaveH

    Yep. The problem with the Progressives, Jay, is that they have no game. Their policies aren’t logical. They have no experiential evidence to back them up. So, in desperation they must use circular reasoning and fabricate facts. And when those are exposed, like 12-year olds they resort to childish manipulative tactics — name-calling, ridicule, mocking, and other personal attacks. I feel like I’m back in the 6th grade when I’m dealing with them. I guess I should be flattered when they mock me (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery), but I just feel pity for their childish ignorance.

  • Dick

    now, calling someone you don’t know a filthy spoiled coward isn’t nice. Play nice.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    Again, by not abolishing the patriot act, obama is complicit, as well as guilty of colluding in the removal, and the continued suppression of freedoms previously taken away by the patriot act. If you admit to the fact, and you did, and i agree, that the patriot act has taken freedom(s) away from Americans, then the fact that obama has not abolished the patriot act shows that; he approves of stripping the American people of their freedoms, is in complete agreement with his predecessor, and is determined, not only in maintaining the freedom-killing, disastrous-act, but to expand, further, its destructive policy.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    And i will answer you, one more time.

    By not abolishing the patriot act, obama is complicit, as well as guilty of colluding in the removal, and the continued suppression of freedoms previously taken away by the patriot act. If you admit to the fact, and you did, and i agree, that the patriot act has taken freedom(s) away from Americans, then the fact that obama has not abolished the patriot act shows that; he approves of stripping the American people of their freedoms, is in complete agreement with his predecessor, and is determined, not only in maintaining the freedom-killing, disastrous-act, but to expand, further, its destructive policy.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    freelsc says: I am going to ask you ONE MORE TIME – Name one freedom that Obama has taken away THAT WASN’T PREVIOUSLY TAKEN AWAY under the Patriot Act.

    There’s your problem, larry, you’re not asking the right question.

    Your question should be constructed thusly; Name one freedom that obama has restored, that was previously taken away under the patriot act? Come on larry, that should be a no-brainer, even for you.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    freelsc says: You cannot answer the question because he has not taken any freedoms away.

    Neither has he restored any.

    freelsc says: You are a liar, a fake and a fraud. You have just proven that. You have none of the facts that you insist on other having. Instead, you’re just shooting your mouth off with nothing to back it up. It’s just blind hatred because…well…I’ll let you finish that sentence.

    Ok. Its obvious you have been overcome by frustration, and you have allowed your emotions to short-circuit your logic; therefore, i’ve won the debate! Wow, that was easy.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    freelsc says: You truly are a scumbag.

    Now now, larry, don’t embarrass yourself any further. I think you have done enough damage to your intellectual credibility for one night. Hold on to what few brain-cell you have left, that i didn’t knock out, and save them for the next debate.

    freelsc says: Do you honestly think that reframing the question absolves you of the lies that you tell?

    Who ever told you that you had exclusive rights to framing a question, was not being honest with you.

    freelsc says: I’m not one of your drinking buddies that you can BS.

    A true statement, considering i don’t drink. Evidently you do, as one need only read your comments to confirm the fact.

    freelsnc says: You cannot back up your positions.

    What position? Are you not the one that framed the question. More evidence that you drink.

    freelsc says: You cannot answer a simple, straightforward question because your argument is false.

    More evidence that you drink. Anyways, i tire of you; you blighted, malodorous, mephitic recreant. Good night!

  • Vicki

    freelarrysinclair says:
    “Name one freedom that Obama has taken away that wasn’t previously taken away under the Patriot Act.”

    That is really easy freelarrysinclair. I’ll see your one and raise you 2.

    1. Signed into law a bill that eliminates my freedom to not have health insurance should that be my choice.

    2. Signed into law a bill that eliminates free speech near the very people who most need to hear that speech (http://www.inquisitr.com/206017/president-obama-signs-anti-protest-bill-h-r-347/)

    3. Signed into law a bill that authorizes the military to choose to indefinitely detain me without the benefit of trial etc. (NDAA 2012)

    Now of course if any of these are found, in the future, to be unconstitutional then this answer changes as any unconstitutional law is null and void from it’s inception.

  • Vicki

    freelarrysinclair says:
    “That was kind of a trick question. Congress creates the laws, not the President.”

    The question was
    “Name one freedom that Obama has taken away that wasn’t previously taken away under the Patriot Act.”

    Hardly a trick question. Every one of my 3 (I notice you only responded to 2) answers were bills he signed into law. That means the pen did it. :) Had he vetoed any of the bills then it would be entirely Congress as you attempt to imply. Alas the truth is there for all to see. Obama did it.

    freelarrysinclair: “1. Obamacare does not take away your right to choose not to have healthcare.”

    Nor did I say it did. I specifically said health INSURANCE.

    freelarrysinclair: “2. Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act of 2011 makes it a federal violation to run up to the White House with a semi-automatic weapon.”

    What the law actually says is :
    “This law permits Secret Service agents to designate any place they wish as a place where free speech, association and petition of the government are prohibited. And it permits the Secret Service to make these determinations based on the content of speech.”
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/03/15/can-secret-service-tell-to-shut-up

    It might also affect your ability to run up to the White House with a semi-automatic weapon but there are already laws covering the intentional misuse of ANY weapon so they did not need to waste taxpayer money writing a law that was already written. Probably one of the sources of government waste we hear about.

  • macgyver1948

    freelarrysinclair.. Excellent question and maybe it needs to be asked more often. For one, The GW admin gave Home Land Security, and others, the right to listen into all our phone calls, home and cell, as much as they want and without warrants Watch what you also say in the Internet, :-). For security reasons? That weakens liberty, freedom and our Constitution. That should be illegal on a federal level, even for a President.

    “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin

    I think Ben is saying ‘You can’t do that GW and HLS, etc’ (but yet they do), and stay away from our liberty. Every time I hear the Right align themselves with the Founders, on security or corporations or whatever, I choke on the BS. They lie about our history…
    Just for the fun of it, for those who believe “Corporations are people” — “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” – Thomas Jefferson

    We very much need “Separation Of Corporations and State” added to our Constitution as the Founders spoke of but they felt it should be left up to the States. Isn’t working that way so well so that is why I feel it needs to be added…

  • Vicki

    freelarrysinclair says:
    “The whole thing was easily avoided if we would have stood up straight and said “is that all you’ve got?” rather than “WAAAAAAAAAAAH! M-O-MMEEEEEEEE, I’M SCAAAAAAAARED!”

    We are in complete agreement. I told friends at the time that the people who actually commited the act had the discourtesy to kill themselves so it was going to be really hard to punish them.

    Oh and we can still do something about the government whining by going to this webpages and telling our representatives that we have WON the war on terror.
    Us. Individually and we don’t need them being afraid for us.

    https://secure.downsizedc.org/etp/not-afraid/
    “To us, America’s fear of terrorism is like a cat being afraid of a mouse. Actually, it’s worse than that, because all the terrorists in all the world amount to no more than an anemic mosquito on the snout of a whale.”

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    I am going to ask you ONE MORE TIME – Name one freedom that Obama has taken away THAT WASN’T PREVIOUSLY TAKEN AWAY under the Patriot Act.

  • JT

    Hi Jay. If I may jump in: the Patriot Act was an act originally passed by Congress and signed by President Bush. I believe that it was brought up for renewal and then with bi-partisan support was signed and renewed by President Obama. Now I believe that Congress had a veto-proof majority, and therefore Obama, even if he wanted to, could not have vetoed its renewal. That being said, I believed that he supported its renewal. I guess it comes down to what exactly can be done DURING THE TIME OF WAR to curtail various Civil Rights. I believe that the Supreme Court has ruled some of the Patriot Act unconstitutional, and other parts Constitutional. Yes, I am also against much of the Patriot Act, but the Supreme Court has spoken and that is how our government works, Constitutionally. What should be of the utmost importance is that an over-seeing group be established to ensure that the Rights being temporarily suspended is not abused to any further extent than necessary. War changes everything; I believe that a very Conservative Supreme Court Justice himself declared that the Constitution is “not a sucicide pact”, and that War can justify the loss of certain freedoms. Look at the Draft, for example. You can’t have a more powerful loss of individual rights than to be drafted into the military, yet to defend our country this is allowed. I am rather on your side with regards to the Patriot Act, but really if this is your big gripe against Obama then I think it’s rather unfair. Where were you when Bush started it all and did you support his Impeachment then?

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    You cannot answer the question because he has not taken any freedoms away. You are a liar, a fake and a fraud. You have just proven that. You have none of the facts that you insist on other having. Instead, you’re just shooting your mouth off with nothing to back it up. It’s just blind hatred because…well…I’ll let you finish that sentence.

  • macgyver1948

    Jay.. So Obama didn’t get to revoke the Patriot Act he is as guilty, “complicit”, as the asses who took pieces of our liberty away with it?

    People could also blame Obama for our getting into the Bush Immoral Iraq war just after 911 and for all those expenses and deaths that incurred, as the TEA bag Michael Backmann did not that long ago. Why not, let’s just hate and blame Obama for everything.

    It does not show Obama approves of any the the liberty stripping in the Patriot Act, it only shows he hasn’t done it yet. Hopefully he will in his second term but it very much needs to be done. That and the SCOTUS decision in favor of Citizen’s United which needs to be gone.

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    You truly are a scumbag. Do you honestly think that reframing the question absolves you of the lies that you tell? I’m not one of your drinking buddies that you can BS. You cannot back up your positions. You cannot answer a simple, straightforward question because your argument is false.

  • JT

    I believe, Jay, that Obama banned the use of “torture”. That was one right that the original Patriot Act seemed to trample on.

  • Jeff

    Buster, don’t you know you’re costing Dave MONEY? He must be fun to go to dinner with, having to spend hours in the bathroom as soon as the waiter comes for his MONEY! He’s rich, you know, and the whole world wants his MONEY!

  • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

    Misty, gloomy, murky, misty, muddy FLASHY wrote: “facts are facts…guns are used to commit violent crime, they are used to kill people, and widespread packing outside the home does not make anyone safer…just the opposite.”

    This is ONE of many the libtards’ LIES.

    Gloomy, doomy Flashy, “facts are facts!” “Guns are used to” PREVENT killings and safe lives:
    Here are the FACTS:

    1) MI Walgreens pharmacist shooting armed robbers
    2) IL Pharmacist Shoots Armed Robber
    3) CA Stockton pharmacist shoots at armed robber
    4) Oklahoma Pharmacist Kills Masked Armed Robber
    5) George Zimmerman SHOOTS ATTACKER Trayvon Martin in SELF—DEFENSE
    6) Florida Elderly Man SAVES A CAFE FULL OF PEOPLE BY SHOOTING GUN-Wielding Robbers. But of cause NBC, CBS Skipped the FACT.
    7) 14-year-old Phoenix boy SHOOTS ARMED INTRUDER
    8) Beauty Queen fatally SHOOTS INTRUDER in Florida home
    9) Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder: 911 Operators Say It’s OK to Shoot

    Do you need more Flashy?
    80% armed crimes are committed by people who had NO firearm permit.

    Flashy wrote “…ANOTHER BOGUS QUOTE FALSELY ATTRIBUTED TO THOMAS JEFFERSON. (“The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”)”

    Flashy, you are soooooo disgust and vicious LIAR.
    Here you are having Thomas Jefferson’s quotes and sources. Go to the library and check them.

    “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. THE STRONGEST REASON FOR THE PEOPLE TO RETAIN THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS IS, AS A LAST RESORT, TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AGAINST TYRANNY IN GOVERNMENT” — Thomas Jefferson, (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal to Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of ARMS.” – Thomas Jefferson, Founding Father, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence (1776) and the third President of the United States, the first United States Secretary of State serving under President George Washington (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal to Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    “A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I ADVISE THE GUN. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind … LET YOUR GUN THEREFORE BE THE CONSTANT COMPANION OF YOUR WALKS.” (Thomas Jefferson, Encyclopedia of T. Jefferson, 318 [Foley, Ed., reissued 1967])

    “What country can PRESERVE ITS LIBERTIES if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take ARMS.” (Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Dec. 20, 1787, in Papers of Jefferson, ed. Boyd et al.)

    Murky, muddy FLASHY, the Founding Fathers had the TOTALLY OPPOSITE view on the FIREARMS from yours.

    Here what George Washingtonand others said about FIREARMS:

    “A free people OUGHT not only to BE ARMED and disciplined, but THEY SHOULD HAVE SUFFICIENT ARMS AND AMMUNITION TO MAINTAIN A STATUS OF INDEPENDENCE FROM ANY WHO MIGHT ATTEMPT TO ABUSE THEM, which would include their own GOVERNMENT.” – George Washington, the Founding Father, the 1st President of the USA, the 1st Commander-in-Chief

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; THEY ARE THE PEOPLE’S LIBERTY’S TEETH…” – George Washington

    “The very atmosphere of FIREARMS ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE RESTRAINS EVIL INTERFERENCE. They deserve a place of HONOR with all that is good.” – George Washington

    “The said Constitution shall NEVER be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own ARMS.” – Samuel Adams, the Founding Fathers of the United States, one of the leaders of American Revolution, 4th Governor of Massachusetts, political Philosopher

    “The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a GUN.” – Patrick Henry, the Founding Father

    “Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our ARMS in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of CONGRESS? If our defense be the real object of having those ARMS, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?” – Patrick Henry

    “Whenever governments mean to invade the RIGHTS and LIBERTIES of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.” – Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

    “To preserve LIBERTY, it is essential that the whole body of people ALWAYS possess ARMS…” – Richard Henry Lee – Senator, First Congress

    “A MILITIA, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves … and include all men capable of bearing ARMS.” – Richard Henry Lee – Senator, First Congress

    “Who are the MILITIA? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our ARMS each man gains his own bosom/security/heart/center. CONGRESS HAS NO POWER TO DISARM THE MILITIA. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American…[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE.” – Tenche Coxe (an American political economist and a delegate for Pennsylvania to the Continental Congress

    Amendment 2 – Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791
    A well regulated Militia, BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

    Amendment 4 – Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791
    The right of the people TO BE SECURE IN THEIR PERSONS, HOUSES, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, SHALL NOT BE VIOLATED, AND NO WARRANTS SHALL ISSUE, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Flashy, did not your mama told you that LYING is a SIN?
    Flashy, do NOT SIN.

    In God We Trust

  • eddie47d

    Where’s the lie VICKIE? None! So that make you one troll!

  • firefight

    Edddie 47 says…….”Sorry I don’t want the person sitting next to me in a theater holding an AR-15 or any other weapon for that matter. James Holmes should have been red flagged in the speed he bought his weapons (including bombs) and also that large stash of ammo. Americans should have access to self protection but under the strictest of laws.”

    Once again, Eddie47 displays his stupidity that echoes that of all liberal retards. Eddie, If someone had been carrying his or her own firearm in that theater, chances are this gunman would be dead and much fewer innocent people would have been killed or injured. It’s people like you and this theater chain who create gun free zones that make it easy for these cowards to attack and kill innocent people. When will you morons ever learn. Criminals do not want to go to places where there’s a chance of someone there being armed. Ever hear about a shooting at a Starbucks? And, it’s those “strictest of laws in New York, Chicago and Washington, D.C. that make them the cities with the highest gun crime rate. Know why? It’s because of the stupid Liberal politicians who have imposed those “strictest” of gun laws that YOU talk about. Wake up moron. It’s people like you that give people like James Holmes their targets of opportunity.

  • harry

    This operation in Colorado to rally anti gun pity will work on some people and not others… the same powers that did this are behind the election of the current prez…. the common people were duped into believing his lies and charm and swept him into power over them… yes, the American people are easily duped as those who run the country know. doubt if anyone will be able to change their policies and control over us…

  • Big John/Georgia

    It’s funny; The FIRST thought that came to my mind right after hearing of this incident was “Staged!” It too conventiently followed on the heels of this bogus UN gun treaty. So, these progressive fools want firearms ONLY in the hands of the military? HA! That didn’t work out too well for the victims of Nidal Hassan and the good folks of Ft Hood! Who brought Hassan down? NOT AN MP! A local policewoman, an average officer driving a patrol car! SHE answered the call that day, NOT a member of the military. She took a bullet in the process.
    No disrespect to the military, and I support them fully, but it was NOT the military that resolved this crisis; it was a local mom who serves and protects every day.

  • Ron r

    So, let me see if I understand this. The government (Obama) let this kid loose on society so that they could pass some kind of gun law because F&F has not worked so far??? Wow what a theory. (Truth) What would we do without the insight and Cracker Jack reporting this page provides? I for one am glad we have this page to get our information (truth) from. Heaven help them (government people/ revenuers) if they try to pull off another moon landing and tell us it’s for real. Had it not been for (some/most) people like the ones on this page it would not be known that it was in fact Abraham Lincoln who shot John Wilkes Booth, or that john Lennon was in fact not a Beatle but a founding member of the Temptations.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    I cannot believe there are still people that believe laws are the answer to this kind of thing. It is absolutely true that the shadow government can arrange things like this. There is a private special operations army that the people of the USA are unaware of. They are and have been the black ops arm of the Democrat Party since before the killing of the Kennedy brothers and that was their doing since the brothers went against the party for cleaning up corruption in government. After they were killed, Sen. Percy brought up the corruption thing again and a daughter was murdered by obviously well trained mystery types. The Democrat Party is out to destroy the Constitution of the USA and control all of the population. NO LAW will work as criminals at all levels IGNORE LAW! If you do not trust the person next to you, that is the work of the government in making everyone suspicious of everyone else. Get to know your neighbors and make a connection even if you disagree with their politics. It might be nice of them to stop a home invasion at your place.

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.754 Benjamin Fox

    Amen FreedomFighter; Has all the ear marks of a run away marxist government with the new Hitler in-charge. The first Hitler did it so this one is following right along with the same plans. I think it was John Adams that said, a armed man is a citizen, a unarmed man is a slave, America welcome to the marxist plantation of obozo and slave masters. Semper Fi Friend:

  • ed

    The govmn’t M/O is to create a diary from Lee Harvey Oswald, personal diary to the diagram that showed up after the fact. It is the only way they can create a history for a subject.

  • lost respect

    Your absolutly right this is a false flag! Since when does a murderer sit in prison for a day or so then show up in court druged to the point that it was so obvious. Where his accomplices worried that he might remember the incident or give clues to what happened? Something smells this administrations actions along with Bloombergs remarks are telling. Do not ignore these signs signs are meant to read, things happen for a reason 99.9% of the time.

  • Shawn

    you must be off your rocker to think something like that was done for alternative reasons

  • modern patriot

    eddie47d, you are either dumb as a bag of [expletive deleted], or intentionally dodging common sense and logic to support your leftist agenda.

    The comment was made highlighting the absurdity of your initial statement cheerleading for the criminal in chief, and rightly so, as you make the statement as if the two of you are good friends. You attempt to turn the argument around on Dave H calling him a hypocrite implying his statement was based on the same fallacy as that of yourself.

    The problem is, and it’s clear to those of us with common sense, that you have no sense of reality, no common sense, and absolutely no critical thinking skills. After a very brief examination of obama’s murky history, his dismal voting record as a senator (when he actually did vote other than “present” that is), the people with whom he as associated himself with as far back as college days, etc etc ad nausea. This brief glimpse offers enough insight that anyone with half a brain could conclude that more than enough evidence exists to justify the expression of concern in regard to obama being the administration to pull the trigger on martial law, far reaching gun control, or any number of other game changers. Now, comparing your statement in his defense; yours has no sliver of rationality to it. That is unless one were to believe that such a basis could be drawn from obama’s statements and speeches, ignoring anything else altogether. But even his own statements are often contradictory and riddled with misinformation and outright lies. This is of little consequence however, as anyone foolish enough to take anyone they don’t intimately know on their word contrary to mountains of data discrediting their word is likely not intelligent enough to see the fallacy in this situation.

    So, eddie47d, I hope for your own sake that you really aren’t that mind-numbingly stupid and this is just your attempt to support your comrade at all costs. Because when the proverbial [expletive deleted] hits the fan, those that are in power will not give one fraction of a shit about you, even if they knew without a doubt you were a lifelong ardent supporter. They’ll likely just laugh in your face and thank you for your stupidity.

    For the record, as I’ve become accustomed to the (ill)logic you and your comrades use in these type of exchanges, I’ll make it nice and clear that I’m not a “right winger” in the sense that I view your and yours as the only problem. I understand fully that the republicans are every bit as guilty as the democrats in the decline of our country and our society in general.

    Here’s the difference: while it may be perfectly logical to call a percentage of republican voters useful idiots, and rightly associate them with pridefully supporting some of the worst scum in government, it can be observed more often than not that this same group outside of their ignorance in voting does not degrade society. It is not often they contribute directly to moral decline and the dissolution of the foundations of liberty, the constitution, or society as a whole.

    The same cannot be said of the progressives. The group mentioned above votes as they do in a large part because they are lied to and deceived by those they support, while in so many cases involving the progressives their candidate will get a vote with their unconstitutional views right out in the open. More importantly, the liberal progressives contribute tremendously to the decline of society. From removing God from our educational institutions (like it or not, this country has a basis in Christian morals), to promoting deviant sexual behavior, and most importantly supporting pridefully the disarmament of the citizenry.

    So, before you spew some unintelligible garbage professing your love for obama or progressive “enlightenment” or whatever else is rattling around in that head of yours, take the time to do yourself a favor and do a little homework. Because frankly, I don’t give a damn what you think or believe, nor should you give a damn what I think. The reality of the situation is however, your fate is in your own hands, and whether or not you care to see it, troubled times lie ahead. Good luck.

  • Rocky Bass

    Never was it, “the right to keep and bear sporting goods”

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    You won nothing. You could not answer my question.

    In the real world, not answering the question means that you’ve lost the debate. I know that you don’t live in the real world. You live in a world where lies are truth and truth are lies. Any other human being would be ashamed of lying. You’re proud of it.

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    “Yep. The problem with the Progressives, Jay, is that they have no game. Their policies aren’t logical. They have no experiential evidence to back them up.”

    Except Jay can’t answer a simple question such as “What freedoms has Obama taken away since the Patriotic Act?” Given how horrible Obama is, that should be easy. But he can only repeat a non-answer and claim victory because he doesn’t answer the question.

    So it’s ok for Jay to act like a Progressive.

  • Mike

    OK why don’t you come and try to take mine

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    Shorter Jay – “I’m going to insult you and go hide under the covers in bed.”

  • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

    Amendment 2 – Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791
    A well regulated Militia, BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

    Amendment 4 – Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791
    The right of the people TO BE SECURE IN THEIR PERSONS, HOUSES, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, SHALL NOT BE VIOLATED, AND NO WARRANTS SHALL ISSUE, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    “That the said CONSTITUTION shall NEVER be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the RIGHTS OF CONSCIENCE; or to prevent the people of The United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own ARMS…” (Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Peirce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. SUCH LAWS MAKE THINGS WORSE for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for AN UNARMED MAN MAY BE ATTACKED WITH GREATER CONFIDENCE THAN AN ARMED MAN.” — Thomas Jefferson (Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764)

    “The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them.” (Zachariah Johnson, 3 Elliot, Debates at 646)

    “No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of ARMS.” (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal to Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950])

    “…to disarm the people – that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

    “the ultimate authority … resides in the PEOPLE alone,” (James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in Federalist Paper #46)

    WATCH this Video (InfoWars) Democratic Operatives Urged Obama To Seize On Attacks
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s52xUbj5Ylo&feature=relmfu

    And watch & listen the LIES of Barry the Deceiver:
    Obama on Gun Control (Debate with Hillary) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWajf5RkDJ8&feature=related

    Obama on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk9GwXJNM2c&feature=related

    56 Million Exterminated Under the Guise of Gun Control
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ln56Zp22res#!

    THE GUN CONTROL IS NOT ABOUT GUNS. IT IS ABOUT CONTROL.

    CRIMINALS NEVER APPLY FOR THE ARM PERMITS

  • Bud Tugly

    I am a very strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment and own quite a few firearms myself. I am also a veteran. But to blame the actions of a very sad, disturbed individual on anyone other than the himself and the circumstances of is life is a bit of a stretch. Such diatribes, though appealing to those who want to believe, weaken the conservative argument.

  • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

    freelarrysinclair @10:42 am, Please care to cite the FACTS to back up your LIBTARD rant.

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    That was kind of a trick question. Congress creates the laws, not the President. At least you’re smarter than Jay who didn’t even get that far.

    1. Obamacare does not take away your right to choose not to have healthcare. That’s your choice. Do you know how the health care system works and what a risk pool is? Are you aware that it’s one of the reasons that health insurance is so expensive? The penalty for not having health insurance is part of this thing called “shared sacrifice”. Kind of the way that the Army works. The few sacrifice to help out the many. The Obama administration did a crap job explaining it. I love how Libertarians demand all of the benefits of America but feel that they shouldn’t have to do anything to get those benefits.

    2. Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act of 2011 makes it a federal violation to run up to the White House with a semi-automatic weapon. Here’s the relevant question – why is it ok to demand that your home can and should be protected from threats but that government buildings should be open to assaults 24/7?

  • angelwannabe

    Vicki, If there was a tape, I’d wager a guess, it’s been destroyed by now!

  • JeffH

    angelwannabe, you’ve got me confused with that childish liberal troll “jeff”. :)

  • JeffH

    No Jeff, I said childish liberal troll..my mistake. What I meant, and your childish and immature comments support this, is that you’re an “immature childish liberal troll”. It doesn’t require “superior” knowledge to see that, just average maturity.

  • JeffH

    ” “superiority” of the master race according to your ideology”? The only resonse I can give you is that I’m ROFLMAO!
    Superiority of the master race according to my ideology???

    If only pigs could fly! LMAO!

  • Jeff

    An interesting story. Is there any evidence to support it?

  • angelwannabe

    Jeffh, I was looking earlier, haven’t found anything as of yet

  • http://none Charlie

    Nancy,
    Thanks for your comment but keep in mind that most writers on this site are “Heathens”, that can be easily seen by the context of their comments…
    The defect of Heathenism is brought on by years of disregard for The King’s Law as Written in His Law Book called The Holy Bible of The Almighty God…
    The Founding Fathers of America called out King Jesus as The King of America in The battle against king George the third, the battle cry was “no king but King Jesus!” as they exercised their gun rights from King Jesus , see Luke 22:36 …
    The first two “Orders” under The King’s Command are found at Matthew 6:33 and The Keys to The Kingdom were given to a Man called Peter at Matthew 16:19 and that Man Peter tells you at Acts 2:38 how to become a “True” Christian … Acts 2:38 is one of The Keys to The Kingdom and these same Keys are The Keys to “Truth and Liberty “see John 8:32… NO one! can take The Spiritual Guns from The King’s Men and The physical gun right as seen at Luke 22:36 can be exercised under The King’s Authority as needed in defense of His Blessings …
    Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing …

  • Jeff

    I don’t understand your point. Because it was a policewoman and not a soldier who shot Hassan, that means ordinary citizens should walk around with military semi-automatic, large-clip or large magazine rifles? I don’t know which straw man you’re attacking, but the most anyone is proposing is banning these military-style weapons only useful in war or for a mass shooting. And there’s talk of limiting the clip size to maybe 10 rounds. That should be enough to stop anyone breaking into your house or to bring down that deer you just can’t wait to kill. No one is coming for your firearm despite the paranoid fantasies of many on this blog.

  • Charles Moore

    Nonsense. Why would anybody want to “stage” something to defeat the U.N Treaty when it had no chance of passage?The U.S. Senate had to ratify it. Before the vote in the U.N there were 51 U.S. Senators who had written a letter to Hilliary Clinton to not approve it and there were at least 57 out of 100 Senators who said they would vote against it.

  • Jeff

    DaveH loves the Koch Brothers because they don’t need his MONEY!!

  • Charles Moore

    Another Idiot. News has been released that 49 of the 50 States have over two trillion in unfunded Liabilities that they can’t pay. In order to be considered Healthy they must be at least 80% Funded. The only State in this case is Wisconsin.

  • eddie47d

    I can remember what I look up Joe so get over yourself. Unless I print any misinformation then your point is irrelevant.

  • Average Joe

    eddiot,
    That’s it? That’s all you have?

    Please excuse me while I laugh hysterically…..

  • eddie47d

    Not really Jay and he actually answered and that is more than I can say from most.

  • eddie47d

    Reread you post Jay and correct the historical errors!

  • eddie47d

    If you all loved Vietnam so much you must of really liked Iraq and will be even more enthralled with Iran.

  • Bimbam

    Switzerland is an all-white country. The laws work fine when the people are all-white. Just like Japan.

    All these countries have white or very light-skin people who are highly intelligent and cultured they have very few crimes.

    But uhhh, we negroes here. And that’s the difference in crime rate. Whenever you have “darkies” the crime rate skyrockets.

    I don’t know why it just does. Yeah, I admit it, I’m a realist, not a racist. The real racist will start chiming in and claim I am the racist. That’s how you tell the real racist, btw.

  • Bimbam

    You guys talk so righteous while all the negroes are watching.

    But I bet a few drinks would pry the truth about how you REALLY feel about negroes.

    Seen it time and time again. Much to MY embarassment. Toodaaleeloooo……….. LOL!

  • Jeff

    You? A racist? Of course not. Just because you sound like Lester Maddox . . .

  • Jeff

    And James Holmes is secretly Black. In fact, I think he’s Obama’s illegitimate son. So you CAN now blame the Aurora shooting on Obama. Got a woody now?

  • Charles Moore

    I consider you an Idiot and not a Racist

  • Jeff

    Well said.

  • Jeff

    Could you define a “gun grabber?” Does it include anyone who entertains any limitations on weapon type or the size of magazine? If so, your hero Scalia might just fit the definition.

  • macgyver1948

    freelarrysinclair… You are wasting your time with some here. If they do not agree with you they also cannot hear you and some have to resort to name calling….

  • Jeff

    But some of the names ARE funny in sort of a psycho way. Like Chuck calling everyone a Bolshevik. Makes him feel so much smarter than saying “commie.” I laugh every time I see him use it.

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    Oh, I know. It’s more just to force them to show their ignorance for my own amusement.

  • Charles Moore

    I have given you several.

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    I’ve got some guy on Weekly World News Net Daily that always tells me to go back to North Korea, which is hilarious!

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    “The FIRST thought that came to my mind right after hearing of this incident was “Staged!”

    Damn. Whatta psycho. That was the FIRST thing that came in your mind?! Not “That’s horrible” or “Those poor people” or “I can’t imagine what that must’ve have been like”. But “Staged”? That’s possibly more disturbing than the shootings themselves.

  • macgyver1948

    freelarrysinclair … Yep, I know with some there is amusement but some are so dense as they do not even read what you say and they insult you because that is all they can do… The tail of TEA…

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    For me, it shows how cowardly Americans have become in the face of adversity. I don’t mean the first responders but the rest of the nation who, after a fluke of an attack, started sucking their thumbs and becoming afraid of their own shadows.

    Think about this – other countries have had terrorist attacks and almost none of them reacted by curling up in a ball whimpering, “Muslims….Muslims… Muslims…” The US response was to start creating cottage industries out of full body scanners and to attack the wrong country. There are people in the world that live under a constant state of war…and they don’t even have cable TV to take their minds off of that fact.

    “We have nothing to fear but fear itself.” That used to mean something. Now it’s “we have nothing but fear.” The world is a scary place. It doesn’t get less scary by trying to childproof it.

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    That’s ok. Axelrod pays me whether I make headway or not. ;-)

  • macgyver1948

    freelarrysinclair… “The US response was to start creating cottage industries out of full body scanners and to attack the wrong country”.

    We attacked the wrong countries, Iraq ss a biggie, for reasons other than retaliation. It could have been for oil of for the geographical position or, maybe, to avenge “daddy”. Whatever it is it is generally for the wrong reasons. But there are corporations who have major influence with our “representatives” who benefit from these wars and that has to stop.

    If we are attacked by terrorists we need to go to hell after them and not attack people who didn’t do us. Israel, for example, showed from before they become a country in 1948 that not responding to terrorist shows the terrorists Israel will not defend themselves. Things changed after so many of their children and other loved ones were blown to pieces so they took the actions needed to defend themselves and not go after those who didn’t attack them. We need to follow that example. I just wish they wouldn’t be so hard on many of the Palestine people.

    The world is getting smaller and we need to adjust. But here in the US we have certain domestic enemies and they are influencing our “representatives” with their huge monies and that too has to be “adjusted”. If we are attacked we revoke their attacking ability, whether it is internal or not. “Childproofing” will never work. The Founders made laws and protections for us against Corporations but the Corporations bought the eliminations of so many of those protections. I just do not want us to be BAINed.

  • macgyver1948

    freelarrysinclair… LOL.. I wish I got paid for what I write. I have published articles and blogs on sites like HuffingtonPost but they are all “blogs” so no pay. LOL

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    bin Laden stood before his camera and said, effectively, “Here’s what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna screw the US *exactly* the same way I screwed Russia. I’m gonna bankrupt you.”

    And bush said, “bring it on.”

    The whole thing was easily avoided if we would have stood up straight and said “is that all you’ve got?” rather than “WAAAAAAAAAAAH! M-O-MMEEEEEEEE, I’M SCAAAAAAAARED!”

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    I’ll see if Axelrod is hiring. He’s stopping by on Thursday to replace my Mercedes with a new one. ;-)

  • macgyver1948

    Freelarrysinclair… we were warned about Al-qaeda in the late 80s. Clinton spoke not so lovingly of Bib Laden and warned we need to watch him. Bush was a bush, I don’t know anything good to say about him but he did cost us to this day a whole lot of money. Romney will be Bush in drag but more so because he is more so a corporate stooge. I’m not so sure Romney will know how to speak with Iran or Syria or Russia or China or…

    I think he will fall into the fetal position and suck his thumb if the Koch Klan isn’t around to tell him how to speak. He knows only the business of pleasing his investors. And, he is not for Freedom of Religion unless it is a religion that is approved. He has no respect for other peoples religious traditions and scripture. I am talking about his admission of his baptizing dead Jews. How can he be trusted with anything beyond killing jobs?

  • macgyver1948

    Freelarrysinclair… I would like to enter retirement as a paid writer so if Axelrod is hiring let me know. Thanks…LOL…

  • Jeff

    As long as you’re billing it to DaveH, get one for me too. (I just love Dave’s MONEY!)

  • Jeff

    If his trip over the past week is any indication, he’s looking to replace Jason Sudeikis on SNL. History repeats itself, first as farce (England), then as tragedy (Israel). I don’t know what Poland was other than weird. This guy could be even more clueless than W if that’s even possible. Maybe he just wants to star in the remake of The Ugly American.

  • Charles Moore

    We have already proven that you are an Idiot .

  • Vicki

    Jeff says:
    “So I suppose keeping military weapons off the streets is a non-starter for you?”

    I would keep them off the streets cause they make for a bumpy ride. They belong in the hands of law abiding citizens. People who just happen to also be the militia. (well the 17-45 year olds with exceptions. 10 USC section 311)

  • Vicki

    The 2nd says the PEOPLE have the right. That would include the Militia.

  • Vicki

    Jeff says:
    “So, only able-bodied males between 17 and 45 can have them?”

    As has been explained before the 2nd protects the peoples right. Able bodied males between 17 and 45 are a subset of people. But you knew that already so I suspect you are simply arguing to argue.

    Jeff: “I don’t think the federal militia statute you cited is what’s envisioned in the 2nd amendment.”

    Take that up with Congress. I merely observed that the gun-grabbers attempt to ban firearms from people unless they are in the militia misses (deliberately) the fact that most of the people that gun grabbers don’t want to have guns ARE in the militia.

    Jeff: ” Plus, according to the federal statute, non-military personnel constitute a non-regulated militia as opposed to the well-regulated militia envisioned in the 2nd amendment.”

    Proof by bald assertion. Even the cite I gave doesn’t say “regulated”

    Jeff: ” Doesn’t it appear the founders were leaving the regulation of guns to the states?”

    This is a common argument used to violate many of the bill of rights including the infamous Slaughter-House Cases, 83 U.S. 36 (1873).
    Slaughter-House determined that the 14th Amendment’s Privileges or Immunities Clause did not apply the Bill of Rights to the actions of states (and by extension, local governments).

    Jeff: ” The bill of rights applied only to the federal government, and not to State governments, until 1961.”

    You might have been referring to Mapp vs Ohio (1961) Where the rule that evidence seized in violation of the Fourth Amendment may not be used at trial was applied to the states
    http://billofrightsinstitute.org/resources/educator-resources/lessons-plans/landmark-cases-and-the-constitution/mapp-v-ohio-1961/

    McDonald v Chicago (2010) incorporated the 2nd Amendment as a restriction upon state and local government.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

    Prior to that there have been several cases that selectively picked up parts of the bill of rights and applied them to states including the aforementioned Mapp vs Ohio
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_Bill_of_Rights

    Even today (21012) there are still some parts of the Bill of Rights not covered.
    “Thus in the early 1960′s, the Establishment Clause, the right to counsel, the rights of free speech, assembly, and petition, and the right against unreasonable searches and seizures were quickly incorporated. Since the early 60′s, almost every clause in the Bill of Rights has been incorporated (notable exceptions are the 2nd and 3rd Amendments, the grand jury indictment clause of the 5th Amendment, and the 7th Amendment).”
    http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_bor.html

    Note: According to google that article was written in Jan 2010 so McDonald v Chicago (2010) was not yet settled.

  • Vicki

    Jeff writes:
    ” If you read the entire 2nd amendment, it’s hard to avoid the conclusion that the States have the power to regulate firearms.
    ……
    Usually, you guys are all for State’s Rights under the 10th Amendment.”

    I have no idea who “you guys” are since I have stated many times that states have NO rights. Read the 9th and 10th amendments. Our founders understood that PEOPLE and PEOPLE alone have rights. People also have powers. People delegate SOME powers to state and federal government. Some powers (coining money) are delegated exclusively to the federal government.

    The founders also knew that governments would try and take powers not delegated to them. The Constitution is obviously a list of enumerated powers to limit the Federal Government. The founders feared that the enumerated powers might not be enough so they also added a list of specific rights that were not to be touched.

    The 2nd-8th amendments clearly are addressed to ALL government. For instance what possible use was the right to trial by jury to restricting Congress since they are not part of the justice system.

    The 9th and 10th do not address the federal government so really only the 1st (Congress shall make no law….) restricts just Congress and not all government. Why the founders chose that wording I have not yet ascertained.

    Jeff: “Even Scalia recognizes that some reasonable regulation of firearms may be needed. Guess he’s not afraid of what the NRA might say.”

    Even every gun-grabber recognizes that some reasonable regulation of firearms may be needed. In fact they all say so.

    This does not change the obvious meaning of the 2nd Amendment. SCOTUS has correctly (imo :) determined that the 2nd refers to an individual right ( District of Columbia v. Heller (2008) ), and that it is operative as a restriction on state and local government as well as the Federal government (McDonald v. Chicago (2010) ). Now all they have to do is determine the definition of Shall, not, and Infringed. Be having been taken care of by Clinton. (depends on the definition of is :) )

  • Jeff

    So, only able-bodied males between 17 and 45 can have them?
    I don’t think the federal militia statute you cited is what’s envisioned in the 2nd amendment. Plus, according to the federal statute, non-military personnel constitute a non-regulated militia as opposed to the well-regulated militia envisioned in the 2nd amendment. Doesn’t it appear the founders were leaving the regulation of guns to the states? The bill of rights applied only to the federal government, and not to State governments, until 1961.

  • Jeff

    To a Nazi, everyone looks like a liberal. I understand that. But troll? Is that the best insult your “superior” brain can come up with. You’re even a failure as a Nazi!

  • http://freelarrysinclair.wordpress.com/ freelarrysinclair

    Heart!

    I love how “maturity” and “childishness” gets selectively called out here depending on which side you’re on. It’s kind of quaint in an end-of-the-gilded-age kind of way.

  • Jeff

    The reference was to the “superiority” of the master race according to your ideology, not to superior knowledge. Like most Nazis, you appear to be an ignoramus. “Childish, liberal troll.” Superb analysis. Professor of philosophy at Fresno State perhaps?

  • Jeff

    It’s nice that you NOW adorn your posts with American flags. Did you run out of swastikas and pictures of your Fuhrer or did you have a sudden conversion? When someone wears a swastika tattoo, I don’t generally have a lot to say to him. Likewise on a blog, even if it’s temporary.

  • macgyver1948

    Jeff… Although the list of God’s and humanity’s enmities very much includes Nazis, even near the very top, you express a healthy approach to them, ignore them with a watchful eye, wherever they crawl…

  • Jeff

    If they’re soldiers, they are armed by the government. Soldiers don’t walk the streets of Chicago with their M-16s. If you read the entire 2nd amendment, it’s hard to avoid the conclusion that the States have the power to regulate firearms. Should Montana really have the same rules as New York City? Usually, you guys are all for State’s Rights under the 10th Amendment.

    Even Scalia recognizes that some reasonable regulation of firearms may be needed. Guess he’s not afraid of what the NRA might say.

  • Charles Moore

    Anybody with any common sense knows that Obama is for gun control. Illinois State Senator Obama in order to get the endorsement of Illinois police unions introduced Legislation in Illinois that Retired police officers and only Retired police officers would be allowed to carry concealed weapons. The U.N gun control treaty was dead on arrival at least for this year. The U.S. Senate had to ratify it with at least 51 votes and there were 51 Senators who wrote a letter to Secretary of State Clinton to not ratify it and at least 57 U.S. Senators who said they would vote against it. There was no chance of the U.S. being part of it so why would the Government try to “stage” the carnage in the theater with a non event?. According to the news there would have been more carnage but his magazine jammed. You would think that with at least a few months to prepare and Government support that this would have been checked etc,

    What you see here is a bunch of clueless people that run the gambit of a Government conspiracy to the belief that if a person with a CW permit would have been present they could have taken out the shooter. There is absolutely no guaranty that just because a person is in possession of a CCW permit that they have even shot a gun.

  • Jeff

    Yes, the Constitution limited the Federal Government’s power and the Bill of Rights awarded “rights” to citizens with respect to the Federal Government. Neither document in any way constrained the State Governments. So, while Congress could pass no law infringing freedom of speech or religion, State Legislatures could. The States had inherent sovereignty, so the first clause of the 2nd amendment is a recognition of the power of the State to “regulate” firearms because of its interest in having a “well-regulated militia.” Any other reading simply ignores the first clause.

  • macgyver1948

    Vicki… There are some very interesting defining moments for the Constitution by both you and Jeff. I enjoyed it and I read the Constitution now and then just to remain “current” as well as to know when Uncle has weakened it, as with Bush and HLS.

    The Founders were very much for states rights when they felt it should be a state’s issue because they didn’t want an all powerful Fed.. They were also very much about “ Our founders understood that PEOPLE and PEOPLE alone have rights”. I do believe the founders were not future seers enough or they would have put things they talked about ,leaving instead for the states, like “Separation of Corporations and State” into the constitution. They also talked about putting “Separation OF Church and State” in as well but they didn’t and I now think it is needed. Just the ways things are progressing with how certain religious groups are is why I feel that way.

    I just want to comment on one issue again which should always be remembered, that being, especially before this election for now. “ Our founders understood that PEOPLE and PEOPLE alone have rights”. This history must be remembered.

    There are important reasons Romney said “Corporations are people” trying to imply that they too have rights as people – perhaps. Romney is “of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations” so his all time goal is for the benefit and protection of the, well, you know, and not us. He is lying to us because he needs to give his handlers what they want.

    In so many ways The Founders warned us about Corporations and I cannot understand why we ignore them on that. Their warnings are so much more wise and applicable today. What would be next, corporate voting rights in general elections? Then the execs, and their boards and big investors, would have two votes and we lose again.

    If Romney wins in November we will become the “Corporate States of America” and “We The People” will become ‘forgotten history’.

  • Ron r

    All one has to do is read half the comments on this page and be information challenged (like many are) and by years end the president would have armed hit squads all over the country to kill Americans in order to get gun laws passed. OMG Lincoln did in fact shoot J W.Booth

  • phideaux

    “Well no one on this site every uses the world “alleged” …”

    I have never seen you or Flashy or eddie or deerinwater or any other liberal/progressive on here use “alleged” in reference to Zimmerman in the Zimmerman/Martin shooting.

  • CZ52

    “Dave67 says:
    “An Armed society is not necessarily a polite one. What happened in CO, would not have been prevented or lessened if everyone in the theater was armed… What most likely would have happened is more deaths, ”

    Pure speculation / conjecture.”

    How true Vicki How true.

    Here is something to speculate on; If the shooter had known that every adult in the theater was armed or even half of them for that matter would he have even shown up with the intent to shoot anyone?

  • macgyver1948

    lost respect.. When Lee Harvey Oswald murdered JF Kennedy and then Jack Ruby murdered Oswald it very much looked like a “false flag” op then (Ruby being better to control than Oswald was the theory). This guy we don’t know yet and we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. If this is also a “false flag” op we wont really know – either way. If it is, as it might have been with JFK, BK and Martin Luther King, I want to know what America are we living in??? This kid looks like he is disturbed but the eyes can tell, and his blood, if he is still on drugs. We just do not know yet about this nut…

  • Jeff

    I knew you conspiracy nuts would spin some tale to blame the shooting on Obama. You could write counter-histories blaming Obama and his ancestors for everything from the Lincoln assassination to the Lindbergh kidnapping to the Kennedy assassination. They all happened before he was born? A mere detail.

  • Jeff

    Sorry. He was 15 months old when JFK was assassinated. But where was Barack, Sr.?

  • Charles Moore

    Nonsense. You are the one on Drugs.

  • Jeff

    The only conspiracy theory I ever really gave consideration to was the JFK assassination because none of the accepted versions explained Ruby. He was obviously not some super-patriot upset that his President had been killed. He owned a strip club and was sort of a wannabe gangster. I’ve seen the movies portraying him as everything from a loser the Mafia wouldn’t touch to the ultimate hit man. The truth seems to be closer to the pure wannabe gangster version. So the question remains – why did he kill Oswald?

  • macgyver1948

    Jeff… The part about the conspiracy where Ruby enters is interesting and a lot of food for the imagination. We may never know why he killed Oswald for maybe 150 years, if at all. .

  • Shane

    Vicki says:

    July 30, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    nc says:
    “Bob,What do you do when a blue light goes off behind you on the road?”

    Nothing. Blue lights are used on police vehicles in Europe though. Perhaps that tells us a lot about your thinking. Or you are colorblind

    Here in America, Emergency vehicles use RED lights.

    California:
    http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc25252.htm

    ******************************************************************************************

    My question to you Vicki, is why are you so accusatory on a none issue, such as a harmless throw away statement about blue lights?

    I can tell you that blue lights are used in Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, Kentucky, N.C., S.C., Alabama, Michigan State Police, and others. Most states use a combination of blue / Red. But some use Blue as the dominate color.

    But you may have some merit to your comment, Vicky. The U.N., otherwise known as the United Nations uses blue. I believe that nc’s Freudian slip of the police’s use of blue lights, may enable you to hoist him up by his balls for treason. Good catch Vicky. You are a bright light to this site. Not blue light mind you. But some bright light, that may include color, but not blue.

  • Shane

    Alex says:

    July 30, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Thank Ronald Raygun. At least in the state of California.

    *****************************************************************************************

    Actually Alex, you can thank mental health experts, that changed the status of what mental illness was, such as schizophrenia. Along with the meaning of gender. The time period that most experts in the field come up with as the start of these changes was during the mid-1960′s. This was not a political call by the politicians. But was mainly supported by liberals that agree to abrupt change to what had been previously been codified in mental health positions and procedures. Those mental health changes that also included the AMA, then were eventually merged into state and federal laws.

    But Alex, you can blame R.R. for a mass increase in diabetes in the U.S., due to his pushing of jelly bean consumption on the poor, the uninformed and gullible.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with Obama. I believe he is as much a puppet as the fellow with the orange/red hair. The ones behind this have a large agenda and it is the end of Liberty and the rights of Free Citizens. Foolish mortals, you enjoy the liberties of the gods yet value them not! You will come to value them too late. Obama is just good at speaking as long as the words are in front of him. He has no talent for governing. His speeches were good when others wrote them. Since he put in his own words they have become prattle.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    What would you say of me then. Pilot, fixed and rotor, Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic, Parachute Rigger, Jumpmaster, Explosives Ordnance Demolition Master, Open Water Diver, Weapons Master, Gunsmith, Covert Operations Engineer and this is a partial list. With 17 years of post High School Education and being a Veteran also and member of the American Legion that served in undercover work overseas for 11 years after the US Military. Instructed ROTC for the Third Army at University Level. Bud, being a Veteran does not admit you to situation rooms or planning meetings. You are under command and follow orders. Wherever you served I thank you for your service, but your experience only goes as far as you were allowed for your individual responsibility and I expect that was probably your weapon. Our group planned large ops, inserted, performed the mission, extracted and according to our non disclosure pacts never revealed the mission. I say the young fool was a puppet and performed as planned.

  • Bud Tugly

    William Wiley Bolton -

    You have had an incredible career deserving of gratitude and respect… wow!

    I beg to disagree about the shooter, however.

    Many, many years ago when I was in high school, a fellow student I had known since kindergarten calmly came to school one day and shot an English teacher for reasons know one was able to fathom. No conspiracy just a bad switch flipped. I suspect that the Colorado shooter was another like him. I remain open minded and willing to be convinced otherwise should evidence be presented.

  • Charles Moore

    Nonsense

  • Charles Moore

    What is alleged??? Why in the Zimmerman case.

    In Florida a person with a CCW permit is not allowed to display it even in a threatening manner unless their life or the life of somebody else is in imminent danger.
    1. That Situation did not exist when Zimmerman spotted Martin and claimed he was acting suspicious.
    2. Zimmerman wasn’t even on his “Watch” Patrol and was no even in his Community.
    3. If it had been me then I would have called the police immediately . If I had stayed in the vicinity then I would have observed from a distance until a situation arose where lethal force was necessary etc.
    4. Zimmerman did not call the Police until he exited his vehicle. This was a stupid move and he had no legal right.
    5. I have a CCW permit and I don’t leave home without a gun. If Zimmerman etc had got out of their car and started following me I would be very apprehensive..
    6. Money was donated to an account for his Defense. Zimmerman and his wife used that money to pay off unrelated bills and divide it among family members. Then at his first Bond hearing they denied it.

    The above is not alleged. They are facts. How anybody could think this clown is credible and made common sense decisions is beyond me.

  • Delores Smith

    Karolyn,
    I am happy that you are glad about not worrying about anything. It does not mean you are aware of the facts about Obama. He & his radicals are Marxists with Muslim Brotherhood, living in the White House. You don’t have to worry about it, because you are glad. Have a glad day.
    Delores Smith
    Delores109@cox.net

  • macgyver1948

    Delores Smith .. It is so easy to call someone who you disagree with the names you are using. None if what you call Obama makes him those things. If you aspire toward TEA we who do not can say you are a Nazi. See how easy it to just call people you do not understand, or at all know, the names you want to call them? I bet I know a lot more about TEA/John Birch Society then you know about Obama and it really doesn’t matter if you are for TEA or not, I think you get my point. But you do not have to worry about it.

  • Delores Smith

    THINKING ABOUT,
    Wide Receiver was a gun-running operation that was done with the consent of Mexico. Each gun had a tracking device. The guns were shoved over the border. Holder shut down Wide Receiver, establishing FAST & FURIOUS, numbered guns WITHOUT tracking devices, and without the knowledge of Mexico. Wide Receiver did not kill anyone. but FAST & FURIOUS killed 2 border patrol agents and more than 200 Mexican Nationalists. The numbered guns were found near their bodies. Holder and Obama are responsible for trying to blame Arizona for mishandling guns in an attempt to take away the guns of the people of Arizona, and ultimately the guns of all Americans. The plan back-fired. Obama invoked Executive Privelege when asked by Congress to provide documents to Oversight Committee about FAST & FURIOUS. Hillary Clinton signed a small arms treaty with the United Nations. It went to the Senate to be ratified….They voted against it. They plan to reintroduce it (most likely during the Lame Duck Session.
    Delores Smith
    Delores109@cox.net

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    Everyone should have the right to keep and bear arms along with the responsibility that goes with that right. I can’t afford guns, but my Sifu taught me that if I need a gun someone will bring one! Take that one! If you need a gun there will be plenty being brought around so feel free to take them from overconfident bullies. Be prepared and appear harmless to bring them close. Learn how to disarm and control the other persons muzzle as that is where the bullet comes out. If it is pointed up it is going into the air. A small blade makes the gun yours. A trained group can take a trained group if they are surprised.

  • Charles Moore

    Actually Wide Receiver was flawed because all types of the guns could not be adequately fitted with sensors. This is the reason it was canceled by the Bush Administration. Holder and company revived t and called it “Fast and Furious”. after the Movie.

    Holder not only revived a program that was flawed but didn’t even try to fit the guns with sensors and didn’t notify Mexico.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    Because the Democrats have been enemies of the Republic since before the Civil War. The only people that do not understand this do not know history and do not read the congressional record. Of course most people don’t read it, but some watch what is done. The Republicans aren’t much better except they want smaller government and a balanced budget, or so they say! I really do not trust either. They both rip off the people.

  • Jeff

    Balanced budget? You’re joking, right? Republicans want tax cuts; the economy be damned. They discover the deficit the minute a Democrat gets elected. When they’re in office, they spend like there’s no tomorrow and say “deficits don’t matter.”

  • Charles Moore

    Shouldn’t have to explain this again but I will try it.
    1. Do a search on the “Bush tax cuts”Wikipedia is the most detailed.
    2. It cost 800 Billion over ten years or 80 billion dollars a year to extend them for those making over 200K a year. This Administration is spending 9 billion a day so that 80 billion dollars a year won’t even cover 9 days of spending.
    3. Now extending it for those making under 200K a year costs 2.2 trillion over ten years or 220 Billion a year or three times as much. Why do you think Obama wants to extend it “FOR ONLY ONE YEAR” if he is so concerned about the Middle class?
    4. The expiration of both which the Democrats have always wanted to repeal is 300 Billion a year.
    5. Nobody is talking about the 2% payroll Holiday which also expires on January 1, 2013. This alone is a $900 increase in taxes for those making the average income of $45,000.
    6. The total for the Bush tax cuts expiring and the Payroll tax Holiday is a $400 billion dollar tax increase a year which means consumers will have $400 Billion a year less to spend in an Economy that is 70% consumer driven and hasn’t recovered to that level yet,
    7. This 400 billion dollars and the 10o Billion for the increase in Capital Gain Taxes and Dividends is 500 Billion a year. This is This is 3 1/2 percent of GDP.
    8. The latest a annual growth of GDP is 1.5%.
    7. Taking 3.5% of consumer spending out of an Economy that is only growing at 1,5% means a “NEGATIVE”. 2%. This is a big Recession. Just taking out the tax cuts and the payroll holiday means GDP growth of only .3%(point three percent compared to the 1.5% which is also a recession although smaller.

    This is why you don’t raise “ANY” taxes in a Recession. This Administration has “DUPED: the fools into the Class Warfare Scam into approving an increase on taxes on just those making over 200K.Taxes will need to be raised along with a reduction is spending. I doubt that this will ever happen on a reasonable basis no matter which Party is elected. The result is in the facts. Do people want a mild recession in one year then a big recession in two years when the under 200K tax cuts are repealed or a recession in four years with the “Hope” that the extra time will be used to reverse the problem?

  • macgyver1948

    William… Your Sifu should also have told you in almost every case a gun trumps a knife or most anything else. If you choose to go up against a gunman, starting with getting in close, you better have the guts to follow through along with the know-how. If not your Sifu will have one less student, or at least your sensei would.

    What have you studied? Mine is Ryuku traditions. Tanto is a great minor, if not major, if you know what it is.

  • macgyver1948

    Charles…. I am agreeing with you more and more in content if not necessarily with your attack approaches. What you say now on Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious is not to be disagreed with and your long “Shouldn’t have to explain this again but I will try it. 1. Do a search on the “Bush tax cuts”Wikipedia is the most detailed” is pretty good.

    I know many on the right do not like Wikipedia, not really sure why because it is often correct about what they say. Maybe it is because they just disagree with it as a source.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    You’re right about “almost”.

  • Charles Moore

    I mentioned this in another post as part of the bigger picture but I will mention it again. The Media is supposed to be the watch dog and support a uniform standard. This is to both keep the Public correctly informed and to report correctly on the actions of the Government. The Media has become deeply fragmented in both areas. Some parts of the Media just report verbatim on other parts such as the “AP” and there are different parts of the Media who target and support different groups. Hence the belief of some wil support different factions of such things as Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious.

    I can do nothing about the Political trends but can improve or at least keep the same by anticipating the Economic trends. Even here there can be a problem. I pay extra for these programs by having to get a bigger package on my Satellite T/v/ even though I don’t watch them all. I watch some and record others . I check with different print publications and also such areas on the Internet as Yahoo Finance as well as other Internet Publications.

    Even though they are supposed to be purely Financial there is always some Political part of it whether it be 1% or 5% Take the reporting of Unemployment. The Present reporting of 8.3% is not a true indicator. The Government does not report you as Unemployed unless you are Unemployed and have actively been looking for work in the past four weeks. If you count “ALL” the Unemployed and the Under Employed who want full time jobs but have to accept part time then it is 15%. This is why you can increase new hires by 150,000 and still increase the rate. People for whatever reason that haven’t been actively looking for a while and haven’t been counted become encouraged and start looking again and are then counted.In this case, if the number is more than that 150,000 then the Unemployment rate increases. There is also the fact that ,many people just leave the Work force for whatever reason and the Work force becomes smaller and hence the numbers compared it it. So just stating that the rate is “X” percent can mean nothing.

    Here is another fact for you. Know where the Unemployment rate is 5.7% and there are three of the most richest counties on a relative basis. That would be Washington D.C. which is relatively small in size anyway but is concentrated in Public and Federal employees for the most part and a higher relative income etc.The there are the Defense Industry there etc.

  • Shawn

    if there are no guns there is no one killed by guns , really simple. Only because your country has a huge problem with resposibility of gun ownership is this an issue. Canada has more guns per capital then the US we just dont kill each other with them, see where the problem is????

  • Texan

    Thanks Alondra. Nice job. Shawn needs to review history to see what happens when only the government has guns. There are more people in the US, too. If we had fewer people, we would have fewer crimes by count. Canada does not have the race baiting and agitation professionals trying to disunify their country although history shows some disagreement between French and English speaking populations. If we look more closely at the US, we can see that violence and use of guns is mostly in the inner city and areas dominated by the Democratic Party in their elections. Why this correlation is not explored is because of political correctness and charges of racism in spite of the factual truths.

  • Charles Moore

    You need to lay off the K.A. The strictest Gun Controls in the U.S. are in Washington D.C. and Chicago Illinois which have the highest Crime rates. One of the people killed in Aurora Colorado in the theater was an Intern that was also involved in a Shooting in Canada. The problem is the Clueless such as yourself

  • http://www.facebook.com/sirwilliambolton William Wiley Bolton

    Yes, the problem is corruption in politics. Good sense laws are killed and nonsense laws are passed. Rights come with responsibilities and that is not taught in the USA. Criminals will always be able to access guns. Even if they are made completely illegal everywhere in the world, there would be criminals in possession of guns. When assault weapons were banned here in the USA, drug smugglers (illegal drugs are banned here also) began to bring fully automatic weapons that had been scattered all over the Central and South American area by being brought through Cuba from Soviet Manufacture, to the USA for profits. Thus the huge out gunned police battles with bank robbers several years ago. Laws will never work on people that ignore laws. The only people that will be affected will be law abiding citizens. Criminals will continue to ignore laws. As go the leaders of a nation, so go the people. Corruption in government being cleaned up will result in a better citizenry of law abiding people.

  • Charles Moore

    he is off his rocker anyway. The two biggest crime Cities in the U.S. have the strictest Gun controls and he thinks confiscating Guns is the answer. The NATO Arms Treaty for the U.S. was dead on arrival anyway.It had to be ratified by 51 of the 100 U.S. Senators and at least 57 weren’t going to do it. Only an Idiot would think it was staged when it wasn’t going to be approved anyway.

  • ynottony

    and what exactly would you consider the “other than” alternative reasons to be, eh shawn?

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  • Delores Smith

    WILLIAM WILEY BOLTON.
    I love Canada, but I know why they have fewer shootings. They have more snow. Have you ever tried to shoot while standing on snow? (born in Massachusetts)
    Delores Smith
    Delores109@cox.net

  • Publius

    Maybe it was staged for a different reason. Weird that there is no mention in the media of his father’s role in the LIBOR fraud investigation. Weird that the judge has concealed evidence for reasons that it is not in the best interest of the country to have details. Weird. Lots of other weirdness too. If you were sufficiently curious you would have unanswered questions and perhaps, fewer ironclad answers.

  • Charles Moore

    Nonsense. What does Libor have to do with anything? Any attempt at Gun Control is “Political”. Libor is Economic Policy. Apples and Oranges. I mentioned when the News came out about Aurora that we would find that the shooter was unstable and that there would be evidence that people were aware of his behavior and did nothing. Just like the shooter In Arizona. The family of the shooter hired their own Lawyer and left their son with a Public Defender. They want nothing to do with him They have probably been estranged from him for a long time.

    The first conspiracy of the NATO treaty didn’t work out for you so now its the Libor Conspiracy. The Government would not have staged anything with this Psycho. They would use somebody they could control and an unstable person does not fit the bill.

  • Publius

    The inability to connect Aurora shooting defendant James Holmes’ father, Robert Holmes, LIBOR fraud investigation witness, to the case demonstrates a lack of intelligence. When trillions of dollars and charges of that magnitude are involved, witness tampering of an extreme nature are not inconceivable. In this case, gun control false flag may be cover for interrupting investigation of the international banking fraud responsible for taking down the western civilization economies for private gain. Robert Holmes could name names. Nonsense? I think not.

  • Publius

    Oh. I’m not party to your history rants. You are fairly convinced of your expertise. Unfortunately your historians have not adequately prepared you for covert strategy as would SunTzu, Machiaveli. You are blinded by presupposition and only consider possible that which supports your position. You have no more facts than the rest of us. Your mind is set. Weakness is unable to consider other possibilities. How do you know so much about James Holmes? What facts about the crime scene? I’ve seen pictures that you haven’t mentioned. Explain the second gas mask for me.

  • Charles Moore

    The only clueless one here is you. Again. Libor is Economic and has nothing to do with it. Explain why the Family hired a Lawyer for themselves but left him with a Public Defender?. If they were worried about some sort of retaliation then they would also have hired a Lawyer for him to make sure their son had the best chance of getting off etc. Again. If the Government was going to stage something like this they wouldn’t have hired somebody so unstable that they couldn’t control etc.

    Somebody has to be an Idiot to think there is some connection between LIBOR and it. Then there is your Ignorance on Rome and Marx.
    1. Read ” The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” b