The Democrats Destroyed Detroit


Don’t look now, kids; but while you were laughing at the irony of the same Democrats who ignored the bloodcurdling murder of Baby Antonio Santiago gathering to demand “justice” for Trayvon Martin, Detroit provided one of the greatest “teachable moments” in American history. Despite enjoying the better part of a century’s worth of compassionate, caring and community organized leadership by the best Democrats money could satisfy — in combination with a primary industrial base shot through with the very soul of Big Labor — Detroit skidded through the safety cones of taxpayer-funded bailouts and slammed back into the bridge abutment of bankruptcy.

And let’s be clear about this: The Motor City isn’t dying. It’s dead. Sure, there are still residents skulking around the once-proud burg; but census figures show that their numbers are nearly 60 percent lower than they were a half-century ago. What remains is an urban zombie, a hollow-eyed corpse shuffling along in a mindless search for taxpayer funds.

But this isn’t news. Detroit’s demise didn’t sneak up from behind us while we were distracted by exploding Chevy Volts. Actually, in a sense, it did. We were told that Detroit had put its troubles in the rear view mirror. Thanks to a government takeover led by President Barack Obama, the worthless executives were expunged from the model line like Pontiac Azteks. In their place, even more worthless bureaucrats whose private-sector experience extended to coffee with the Undersecretary of Commerce’s scheduler joined hands with Big Labor to continue churning out the mind-numbingly depressing fleet cars that combine none of the competitors’ pizzazz with none of their quality control. Case in point: Pre-bailout, the Chevy Malibu versus the Toyota Camry. Post-bailout, the Chevy Malibu versus the Toyota Camry.

In truth, Detroit’s downward spiral began decades ago. Following the post-World War II boom; the Nation’s industries underwent an inevitable downturn. Since the Federal government had yet to get into the “saving union thugs from their own incompetence” business, companies like Packard shuttered their plants. Not long afterward, as the city reeled from the economic blow, a police raid of an illegal speakeasy so enraged the patrons that they started a race riot, which would ultimately hold the “burning down our own city” title until South Central Los Angeles claimed it a quarter century later. Not only did damages exceed $80 million (about $560 million in 2013 dollars); but they sent 2,500 businesses to “quitsville,” 43 people to the morgue and a huge portion of the productive population to the suburbs. Universally respected economist Thomas Sowell noted:

Before the ghetto riot of 1967, Detroit’s black population had the highest rate of home-ownership of any black urban population in the country, and their unemployment rate was just 3.4 percent. It was not despair that fueled the riot. It was the riot which marked the beginning of the decline of Detroit to its current state of despair.

Following the riots, an oil crunch took its toll. The auto industry, plagued by Big Labor attacks since the 40s, responded to rising gas prices with a series of incredibly awful automobiles and incredibly bad concessions to the unions. After GM essentially launched the Japanese import market with horrendous cars like the Vega, the United Auto Workers actually managed to exact the infamous GM jobs bank, a program in which laid-off workers were paid nearly full salary and benefits to not work. Over the next few decades, the jobs bank cost GM just less than $1 billion per year.

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While the city’s major employers desperately tried to keep their heads above water despite the unions’ attempts to drown them, the remaining denizens of Detroit decided to salt the fields they had so badly plowed under in 1967. Given the choice to elect redoubtable stewards of the public trust, the Motor City’s voters elected kleptocrats like Kwame Kilpatrick — twice.

Bad planning, bad production, bad employees, bad politicians and bad people took control of a city named Detroit. By the time they were through with it, Detroit was the city we see now: Democratted to death.

–Ben Crystal

Personal Liberty

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • Charlie Cardenas

    There are more Democrat run cities ready to follow Detroit.
    Nobody should be surprised. The Democrats haven’t figured out that redistribution of wealth doesn’t work and giving things away leads to people just wanting more.

    • me

      In this day and age, the redistrubution of money only drains from the bottom to the top. the top. Rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Did you read your comment before you posted? The money cannot drain from the bottom to the top, from the poor to the rich, as the poor do not have money.
        The only reason you see the rich and the poor because the mobile middle class is being squeezed out.

        • Bill

          Good comment, Nad
          And the middle class are being squeezed out by the lefts failed economic policies

          • Scifidave

            Let me give you a small lesson in economics and government, since you obviously don’t have a clue.

            Say you’re running a local government with a 100 million dollar budget. Your revenue stream is 120 million, allowing you to provide essential services, make capital improvements, build a reserve and meet the needs of your citizens. Over the course of a few years you’re revenue stream plummets to 20 million because the primary business base moves their jobs to another country to increase profits, with the help of business friendly gov’t policies. Since business is only concerned about the quarterly profit picture, the needs of the citizens of your town are inconsequential.

            While the population only declines incrementally the cost of providing essential services ( like fire and rescue, water, police, road maintenance) continues to increase. The solution, as you envision it, would be to drastically cut services and jobs, punishing the citizens of your town for the evil perpetrated by greedy capitalists, which further destroys the ability to draw new business to town.

            Now you can blame it on ‘liberal policies’ that have you spending money you don’t have or you could blame the capitalists who bailed for profit. Neither is a viable solution. Now let’s pretend this isn’t Detroit or cities like it. Let’s pretend this is your town. Where you grew up, where your friends and family live. Real people. Real lives. People left in the lurch for profit.

            Tell me, with all your great neocon wisdom, how would you fix that?

          • Bill

            I live in a pro business town that operates in the black. If that can be accomplished in my town, it can be accomplished in any town. I comes from smart money management and cutting out the waste.
            Ronald Reagan did it with California. He asked the private sector to donate auditors to audit all of the state agencies.
            My friends father was donated by Security Pacific Bank and he audited the prison systems. Upon all of the auditors recommendations, Reagan cut the waste and left the state in a surplus.
            Hong Kong audited their public sector and eliminated waste. The result was they refunded $6,000 to all of their citizens.
            If you believe in growing the public sector, you will always have waste. And Detroit is a good example of the public sector being mismanaged

          • Scifidave

            California has always been on the economic forefront and is a bastion of liberal politics. Ronald Reagan did a fair job as governor, then he moved to Washington, bringing with him the new elite of deregulators and trickle-down economists. The first thing that gave us was the Savings and Loan Scandal, which cost taxpayers billions, and set in place the foundation for our current economic straits.

            There is nothing wrong with being pro-business. I owned a office machine dealership for 15 years, but I was just as heavily involved in our community as i was in business related activities. Keeping in mind the needs of the community matters as much as profit.

          • Bill

            But you can’t spend more money than you bring in. If you want to have more revenue to pay for more public services, you need to increase tax revenues by promoting the private sector instead of penalizing them and bringing in less revenues and crying that you don’t have the money

          • Nadzieja Batki

            As a Leftist/Marxist you know nothing of Economics.

          • podunk1

            This thread describes our nemesis – several reasonably accurate “points of view”, arguably each correct up to the conclusion, but perpetually at war destroying each other because they can’t stop trying to win their argument long enough to assess, listen, and logically define what’s wrong.

            We can’t get past opinionated definitions of capitalism, where people save money, transform ideas into into useful products and services, by investing, taking risks to lose it all to build infrastructure, processes, put other people to work with incomes, to distribute and sell their ideas to other citizens who will buy that product only if it is useful, desirable, and affordable to each individual buyer! Selling your skills, labor, etc. IS CAPITALISM where you supposedly sell your mind and effort of the basis of what you accomplish – producing marketable goods that people want. Capitalism is the heart of freedom!

            There are countless business capitalists in the USA .. who are the reason we had prosperity and more than enough for everyone.

            Monopoly is cancer of freedom’s heart, not capitalism! Government controlled citizens are ignorant of monopoly because government education is subservient to monopolists! Simply stated monopoly is a process of controlling supply or demand to manipulate prices, poverty, freedom, subservience, or anything else! To my knowledge it’s still a crime that carries triple damages! Unfortunately, monopolists control justice and the economy is collapsing!

            Foreign based monopolists provide 2/3 of the oil resources that provide transportation, productive energy, lubricants, etc. The president and legislators join that conspiracy by not allowing citizens to domestically produce more than all of the oil we need. Result: Citizens pay as much as 3 times too much for crude oil ($67 if oil is $100/bbl)… essentially trillions as those costs are pyramided through the production cycles.

            Between BLS’s June 12 million unemployed and 7 million wanting jobs (19M total), plus the employes working 34.5 hrs. instead of 40, losing another 23 million equivalent jobs and wages, the grand total excess work force is 42 million (27%). Our executive-legislative officers are in the process of giving amnesty and citizen ship to 11 million to 30 million criminal illegal alien invaders that are subsidized by $402 billion by those officers! The invaders are displacing US citizen workers! Government’s pretext is, citizens won’t work for the $6/hr cash tax evading wages paid to aliens. LET COMPETITION SET THE WAGES!!! ELIMINATE SUBSIDIES THAT PENALIZE WORK! Those government officers subsidize the invaders to tax free incomes far above average American wages! They openly violate oath of office, law, and Constitution to protect tax evading aliens and their tax evading employers. The adverse cost to the economy is in the trillions. It is destroying the nation.

            The president stated the economy will improve by a trillion if amnesty is passed. Bernanke’s $85 billion/mo counterfeiting operation will inflate the dollar value of the economy by a trillion/yr, that will also devalue debt instruments and currency based based pensions accordingly – that trillion loss is on top of the alien subsidies, unemployed citizen subsidies, and the resulting economic calamity they have designed to fundamentally change the USA (overthrow it!)

          • Scifidave

            A monopoly is just capitalism taken to an extreme. It’s still capitalism and while capitalism itself isn’t evil, how it is used to suppress and destroy is.

            What I just don’t get at all is how destroying the American economy, making everyone slaves (more or less) is going to benefit the big players? Productivity will drop, people will starve and die, reducing the consumer base, there were no longer be any incentive to get a higher education, thus the quality of the workforce will plummet, etc.

            Unless the goal is ultimate power, I see no logical reason to do what apparently so many in power want.

          • podunk1

            read the reply to nadziej one down the line. If you dig into the money trail, it’s obvious that maniacal power is the sole objective … The process is nothing new historically.

            For example – what will they have if the labor supply flood drives wages down to minimum wage for everyone who toils for a living… no one can afford anything & the economy will look like Cuba. The illegals are here to drive wages to a point where the lower middle – including scads of degreed people down – will rebel.

            Don’t give up. What’s said above is brutally true! To my knowledge, monopoly is still a crime with treble damages – more than enough break the enemy (who ever it is) and recover some of the damages. Anti-trust enforcement sort of died in the late 80’s & disappeared after Bush 1.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Bill, the middle class will not go away, it is the feeder class for both the rich and the poor. The problem that Leftists/Marxists have with the middle class is that it is mobile. No one is stuck in middle class permanently, any given time someone will either become rich or poor. What the Leftists/Marxists want is a controlled middle class where they will dictate trades or professions, business owners and how much they can make or keep of their money.

          • podunk1

            Marxist and Islam logic is iron clad power and control. Everything else is a threat to be eliminated one way or the other. Killing too many of the middle, creates disasters like USSR was – the poor simply starve off, the compliant survivors barely make it, & the Commissars take whatever they want.

            Well fed & industrious people can and will fight – the down & out can’t. 19 million jobless + 23 million scratched in employment of 144 million working part time with drastically lowered income, & the slow death of indentured borrowing, liquidating, and living a life that isn’t much to talk about. That’s 42 million watching 11 to 30 million alien invaders take their jobs@ $6 per hour while this perverse government gives the aliens free subsidies worth roughly $36,545/yr ($402 billion/11million illegals – govs. numbers!)… bottom line $12,480 no tax cash wage + $36,545 = $49,025 tax free to the $6/hr alien. A 34.4/hr 2012 BLS wage would take home only $31,903 if taxed 25% (FICA/incm). Government is feeding OUR golden goose to criminal illegal aliens they hire to take citizen jobs whole the part-time citizen WORKER is paid less than the ALIEN SUBSIDY! Get mad – LEGALLY throw them out of office!

            If memory is right SSI had $2.4 trillion in it – it would be around $104 trillion if the fund hadn’t been looted by inflation/devaluation, sticky fingers, & no intent to pay any interest,let alone the 5% they pretend to pay – look it up on Gov’s web site – biggest fraud in history of mankind!

            Bernanke prints $1 trillion/yr in counterfeit money – – Obama says amnesty will improve economy $1 trillion. ECONOMY $ WILL INCREASE BY $1 TRILLION / INFLATION WILL INCREASE $1 TRILLION BONDS AND CURRENCY WILL BE DEVALUED BY $1 TRILLION AND $1 TRILLION WILL DISAPPEAR FROM PENSION FUNDS…. ON TOP OF THAT THE DEBT WILL INCREASE $1+ TRILLION and the cycle of collapse will be complete very shortly. IT’S CRIMINAL – prosecute those who obstruct justice as well as the corrupt.

            Does it matter if the monopolist is a communist, a Muslim, Gold finger, pol pot, Bush, Clinton, Obama, or all of the above? All of the above have us by the tail and they are going for the jugular vein. The wrecking ball is in the hands of Obama & holder with their majority legislative-judicial team at their side, and the rest supporting it with more of our money than anyone can imagine. These bastards work night and day to fan the infighting.

            Nad & Scifi are both right! Fight them from all sides.

        • Scifidave

          Government policies have favored the rich since the early 70’s. It’s not a D or R problem, it is a governance problem. The enormous shift of wealth from the lower and middle class to a small cadre at the top is what’s draining our economy.

          I could go into the myriad reasons why we are where we are, but if all you insist on doing is pointing fingers at the progressives, you are a part of the problem, not the solution.

          Anything more I can say on this would be met with more partisan drivel, so until you open your minds to how we’ve been gamed I see that as a monumental waste of my time.

          • Bill

            So, you are saying we are being gamed by have a capitalistic society? What are your solutions, Dave

          • speedle24

            Who has been gamed scifi? Is it against your principles for cream to rise to the top? Do you think that economics is a zero sum game? Do you think that every citizen has a right to a “reasonable income”? If you don’t like “partisan drivel”, why don’t you answer these questions so that you don’t “waste everyone else’s time” with talking points from Mao’s Little Red Book?

          • Scifidave

            Nat, have you ever taken an economics course so you can understand how economics works? How about advanced government or any business courses at all?

            An education is a fantastic tool. It allows you to see past the partisan BS, the game playing, the empty rhetoric, sound bites and catch phrases.

            To clarify, I went to a conservative business college where the instructors didn’t play the party game. I suggest you get an education and maybe, just maybe you might get a clue.

            ‘Cream rising to the top’ is just another example of an empty catch phrase. Get an education and one of the benefits you’ll reap is understanding how such phrases influence us without offering substance.

            Trying to belittle me with the ‘Mao’s Little Red Book’ is just silly. Try harder. You’re embarrassing yourself.

          • DH234

            People here don’t have the education they need to make the statements they make. Just the talking points from their radio ministers. As disciples they don’t need any more proof. Rhetoric is all it takes.

          • Frank Kahn

            When it comes to partisan rhetoric, you are a master. Maybe you don’t see it, but you are spewing liberal rhetoric at every turn. You are right, that it is not so much partisan politics as it is liberal agendas that are the problem. Liberal agendas do not always originate from the dems or repubs. Your education is also in question, because you seem to be leaning heavily on a specific economic model.

            “Nat, have you ever taken an economics course so you can understand how economics works? ”

            Such a generalized question about economics is worthless. Are you speaking about micro or macro economics? What economic theories are studied? What, historical, world models are used as references and proofs for cause and effects?

            “How about advanced government or any business courses at all?”

            The only real reason to study government or business, in this case, is to see the deleterious effects of abuse of power on the functioning of a capitalistic economy.

            “An education is a fantastic tool. It allows you to see past the partisan BS, the game playing, the empty rhetoric, sound bites and catch phrases.

            To clarify, I went to a conservative business college where the instructors didn’t play the party game. I suggest you get an education and maybe, just maybe you might get a clue.

            ‘Cream rising to the top’ is just another example of an empty catch phrase. Get an education and one of the benefits you’ll reap is understanding how such phrases influence us without offering substance.”

            Actually it is not an empty catch phrase, it applies to almost all situations. The problem is that, it depends on what crop the cream is associated with. If it is the crop of crony capitalists an corrupt politicians, they can negate the cream of the capitalist.

            “Trying to belittle me with the ‘Mao’s Little Red Book’ is just silly. Try harder. You’re embarrassing yourself.”

            Maybe that was a little over the top.

          • Scifidave

            So tell me, do you have any higher learning, training or advanced research that gives you insight into economics of any type or are you just parroting someone else?

          • Frank Kahn

            I did not major in economics, but I did take college courses in the subject.

          • speedle24

            Actually I’m embarrassed for you Scifi. Oh and I have taken economics courses in college and have run a business for decades, so I doubt there is much I can learn from you about the subject.

            “Cream rising to the top” is an empty catch phrase huh? Let me make it easier for you. Do you believe that individuals who work hard and create (produce) should be limited in how well off they become financially? That is a direct question, not a catch phrase. Would you care to answer it? Your answer will provide all the substance I need to understand your philosophy.

          • Robert Zraick

            100% right you are.

          • Ringgo1

            Your posts here are a monumental waste of everyones’ time.

          • Alondra

            WHY you waste your time on the libtardic BS?
            Just skip it.

      • TIME

        Dear me,

        Perhaps you can explain to everyone how having “zero” as in nothing ~ allows one to have something taken from it?
        Please explain where that something taken you think is, comes from?
        After all if you have “Nothing”, what can be taken?

        I wait your reply, with baited breath.

      • Charlie Cardenas

        There’s nothing wrong with the rich getting richer. They own businesses, they spend money and all of that requires jobs. The poor get poorer for many different reasons. Having a socialist, welfare state or country only makes things worse.

        • Timothy Thompson

          Go Charlie, simple and straight forward.

          • Charlie Cardenas

            It just takes some common sense. That’s something the Democrats and liberals don’t seem to have.
            Why can’t people figure out why Democrats keep promising to help the poor, yet do nothing to actually help them? When the keep the poor poor and keep on promising “freebies”, they will always have the support from the poor.

    • Bill

      Good Comments, Charlie.
      Our biggest problem is that politicians have a short term mindset. They know that if they promise freebies, they will get elected. And when they do, they work on their own nest egg and could care less about voters

  • Opinionated American

    Sad to see Detroit an American city fall due to greed and corruption. Example of what happens when the other peoples money runs out. “Big Government”

  • Warrior

    And sadly, this is the only achievable end result of the “progressive” democrap “playbook”. Each, democrapically controlled “big city” is faced with the same exact future. Pay to play, patronage, union run edumacation, corporatism, bloated pensions and extreme restrictions on liberty turning ultimately into lawlessness. The one’s footing the bill finally call it quits, pick up and leave.

    Welcome to the “progressive” Shangri la!

  • If only…

    When you take away pride and incentive and substitute it with a promise (lie) and a pacifier, you get Detroit. LA is probably next on the great chopping block of failed liberalism…or we can hope!

    Oh! And let’s be clear! It’s all Bush’s fault! Ha!

    • Scifidave

      Blaming the Democrats or the Republicans is just partisan posturing. Congress needs both parties to pass anything. Both have been up to their eyeballs in creating business friendly legislation that favors the rich at the expense of workers and America.

      When you blame one side without acknowledging the role the other party plays is just buying into the D and R pony show, perpetuating this disastrous approach to governance.

      • Bill

        I can see which party you are leaning toward, Comrade

        • Ringgo1

          You are seeing quite clearly, Bill. Comrade, indeed!

  • mark

    Ok, Ben, and the Republicans bankrupted Orange County, California. But in reality, both there and in Detroit larger factors were at work than political party affiliations. Big government isn’t the only villain here. Free trade enthusiasts in Congress and in the White House pushed hard for laws to outsource U.S. industry and move plants and jobs overseas for cheaper foreign wages and bigger U.S. corporate profits all at the expense of working class folks in Detroit and scores of other once-thriving U.S. industrial cities. They gave huge tax breaks and incentives to Japanese auto makers to move their non-unionized plants to Red states beginning in 1980s. This deindustrialization of America started in the 1970s but accelerated with a vengeance under Reagan who gleefully broke unions and gave Wall Street and the corporate fat cats everything they wanted. To hell with the industrial blue states was the conservatives’ philosophy, let’s break them and their unions, move defense contracts to the Sunbelt, and assure ourselves electoral dominance for a generation. While at the same time they doubled the federal agricultural subsidies to the Republican farm states, naturally. Remember, Reagan tripled the nation debt in 8 years from $900 billion to $2.6 trillion. Unions and corrupt gov’ts certainly played a role in Detroit’s problems, but as usual you are oversimplifying a complex tragedy with your typical partisan demonization. But no surprise there.

    • me

      Tricky Dick Nixon probly started the china trade when he went there. They were bitching about tv’s being made in mexico when Reagan was in office. Clinton pushed hard for free trade telling everyone trade between us and other countries would be put on a level playing field. The big money yes man Bob Dole voted for it. Congress gave companies aid to move overseas with aid and laws which favored it. Now our taxpaying workers who pay the bills of this country work for a lot less and our manufacturing base is gone. We have a service economy which doesn’t pay as good and the government has a lot less support from taxpayers so all that is done nowadays is they run on debt and print lots of worthless money. This country is fast becoming the late great America.


        Both sides have betrayed us, but the DEms have been far worse, far worse!!

        • Justsomeguy151

          I hate the Libtard party and the traitors who are in it but its disingenuous to absolve the Republicans. Bush jr passed the Patriot Act and he allowed 9-11 to happen to advance the NWO’s globalist agenda and to turn the US into a police state paralyzed by fear that “terrorists” would get us. We didn’t know that WE(the US govt) are the terrorists tho. Notice I didn’t say Bush planned 9-11. hes so stupid he couldn’t plan to make a peanut butter sandwich. Hes only gotten anywhere in life thru nepotism and lies and murder.

    • Bill

      Very good. You have perfected liberal claptrap to it’s finest. There was not one true fact in your comments, just what you FEEL you would like to be true

      • Scifidave

        You have no clue. Turn off Fox News, tune out the neocon bobbling heads and maybe, just maybe you might ‘get it’.

        • Justsomeguy151

          There’s no fool like an old fool and Scifidave, you are an old fool. FAUX News is full of it BUT so is Communist New Network and msNBCrap. An intelligent person would shun the LameStreamMedia and use multiple internet sources and ALWAYS verify and do yr own research.

        • purplewings

          If we turned off Fox News we would have NO news at all…..unless it were to follow a racist trial where the president jumped in with his own opinion before knowing anything more than it was a black/white crime. We hear about the Royal baby born in London but we don’t hear about Benghazi, the 22 SEALS strangely shot down in Afghanistan where no one knew they would be. Or the 300 Mexicans and our own border guard murdered with Holder’s Fast and Furious illegal gun supply….or the dozen more illegal actions of this government. Obama/Holder would love if we just didn’t know any of it and msm lives to please them, not to tell us the news.

      • DH234

        You fail to give any “facts” yourself.

    • Scifidave

      Let’s not forget the impact of the bean counters. In the late 60’s business schools started churning out MBAs with one focus in mind – quarterly profits.

      The new generation bean counters wrestled control of the big 3 automakers from the designers and engineers. The result was cheaper to produce cars that were junk and too large for the needs of the domestic market allowing the Japanese to make huge inroads into the American domestic car market with cheaper and more fuel efficient rides. Just what we needed in the 70’s when the OPEC cartel decided to rape the world.

      You are right. The Federal government and business destroyed Detroit. No amount of awesome planning or good government could have changed the outcome.

      Blaming Democrats is just partisan rhetoric and has no basis in reality.

      • topmah

        Teehee–guess when good ole Mayor Coleman Young said ‘his people’ would own the city, which they did & do, that had nothing to do with destroying it. Democrats all–democrat policies–democrat race-baiting–democrat instilled dependency & vicitimization–nah, couldn’t possibly be a factor here…

    • Laissez-Faire Rothbardian

      Bush is to blame for it and everything else wrong in the US. HA!

      • DH234

        Your the first one to bring Bush up!
        The commentor explained it correctly. Reaganomics is at work here. Trickle down and cut taxes has really worked miracles.

        • Laissez-Faire Rothbardian

          Man… gotta make sure your sarcasm detector is still working… cheers!

        • Justsomeguy151

          Nice try Libtard but what we are seeing is Obummanomics, steal from this guy to give to the other guy while keeping half for myself.

    • dude

      huge tax breaks and incentives…. and free trade do not go together.
      The incentives negate “free trade”… how do all these people against free trade not get it…. we don’t have, and have not had real free trade in this country.. we have corporatism and crony capitalism… companies sending big bucks to DC to get what they want…. this is not free trade.. and that term does not go with the problem in Detroit

      • mark

        The Japanese in the 1980s, a decade when they began to really clean Detroit’s clock, claimed they believed in free trade. But they only believed in it on a one-way basis. They got complete access to our market while they kept U.S. products and cars out of theirs. They also received special tax breaks and incentives when they built auto plants in rural red states like huge spending on infrastructure, roads, utilities, small airports to facilitate their brand new plants, some of these were state government tax breaks to get them to build their plants there. Others were federal infrastructure building and tax and deregulation incentives. All sorts of “free trade” advocates constantly call for special incentives. Do you think economic moves are made in this world on the basis of economic theory or on political considerations? Take a wild guess there, dude.

    • speedle24

      Are you seriously comparing Orange County to Detroit? WTF? Do you actually think that the movement to limit the power of unions was a bad idea? Mark, are you having a hard time connecting the dots between union contracts and the fate of Detroit? Please don’t resort to completely irrelevant comparisons in an effort to obfusticate.

      • mark

        No I’m having no problem at all connecting those dots, see my remarks above. But other factors played a key role besides just union abuses. Again, see above

        • speedle24

          The problem with your remarks is they are not reflecting reality. Yes, Big 3 management was an unmitigated disaster in the last century, and the automobiles they produced in the late seventies and eighties were nothing less than an insult to the buying pubic.

          The original management disasters revolved around the decisions to placate the unions by agreeing to horrible contracts they could not possibly honor in the future. Instead of holding firm they made the decision to reduce quality of the vehicle and raise prices. That resulted in Americans welcoming quality Japanese imports with open arms. The rest is history. Any attempt to mitigate the facts is simply re-writing history.

          You are correct that the public sector unions are a “separate” boondoggle that has resulted from “Progressive” politics in the states that are in trouble. However, it is union (UAW) support that played no small part in supporting the elections of the Detroit political morons who eventually wrecked the Michigan economy. When the downward spiral started with the demise of GM and Chrysler, the corrupt leaders assured the eventual fate by managing economics like drunken teenagers. You just can’t place the blame anyplace else and have credibility.

    • Robert Zraick

      Both parties are big government parties. Both have a spending addiction. I agree that partisan finger pointing is a waste of time. While so many people are fighting the Left vs. right video game, the two headed monster just keeps chugging along.

      The whole government must go. We blew any chance of doing that at the voting booth the first time we sat by and accepted a rigged election or a rigged primary. Now we are going to have a real fight on our hands.

      Too many would not face reality, and now waking up is a bit late in the war.

    • Frank Kahn

      You, as usual, fail to understand that it was UNIONS that caused the desire for corporations to move their manufacturing to countries with more reasonable wages. It all points at unions, no matter how hard you try to spin and obfuscate it.

      • mark

        And the massive corporate greed for ever increasing profits. Why makes tens of millions in profits with union workers in the states when we can make billions in profits with foreign sweatshop labor overseas and pay them zero benefits. The Big Three management and design departments also failed to keep up with better models, efficient 4 cylinder engines, etc. With its highway and airport building, the feds also facilitated the growth of suburbia and white flight. There are other factors besides UAW union abuses, which I admit occurred, that played a role in this tragedy: considerable political corruption which you fail to mention and the benefit growth in public sector unions which had nothing to do with the UAW, the failure to address crime in the city, the loss of a robust tax structure with white flight, the list goes on and on.

        • Justsomeguy151

          It wasn’t a failure to keep up w/ technology, it was by design that the these technologies have been suppressed or at the very least, ignored by the auto companies. Deisel cars in Europe get 60mpg but the SAME car in the US will get half that. BIG Oil has their clutches in Congress, and in the auto companies. The last thing they want is people using less gas thru more fuel efficient cars.

        • Frank Kahn

          I did not say UAW, now did I?

          Although, it is a matter of record that the UAW benefits, including massive retirement, and the job pool that paid inactive workers almost full salaries, did have a major role in destroying profitability for the auto industry.

          I am sorry that I did not mention the inclusion of government corruption in the support of unions, including all public workers. Their, unfunded, benefits packages are also a major factor in the demise of Detroit.

          What you liberals fail to acknowledge is the cascading effects of big union interference in capitalism. What you, incorrectly, label as “white flight” was a result of the obscene tax increases foisted upon the middle class, by government, to pay the cost of the Union benefits. When they over taxed the middle class, the middle class left. When the middle class left, the tax base shrank. When the tax base shrank, they increased taxes on the remaining citizens. This forced more to leave, further destroying the tax base. With a devastated tax base, the services needed to support the community could not be funded. This led to fewer first responders, in the form of police and firemen, which caused an increase in crime and loss of structures.

          Currently, there is no solution that will fix the problem, without almost completely eliminating the gross benefit packages that the unions have forced on the community.

    • Justsomeguy151

      Except that you hypocritically failed to mention a SINGLE thing the Libtards did to advance the death of the city of Detroit and instead have to pathetically go back decades in yr attempt to deflect the blame from the Libtards. Anyone who is honest would acknowledge that BOTH aporties have sold out this nation and even tho conservative values strategies would have saved Detroit, the Republicans haven’t been conservative since….forever. Any true conservative in the District of Criminals won’t last long because even the Republicans want nothing to do w/ someone who is for less govt, less power, less perks, less kickbacks and more accountability.

  • diana

    Said this for years on Internet and in letters to papers no would listen mayor young was really the one who really cheated the people but they kept voting him back in then killipatric not sure of spelling came along and finished the job and they kept voting him back in and these people new they where bad men, just like obama, they where warned, but you can’t fix Stupid,

    • RubyBlu

      ,,,couple that with the long line of Democrat Governors….the last one was the worst; yet they voted her in twice because she promised Michigan, ‘You’ll be blown away’….she did keep her promise there!

      • wavesofgrain

        That Michigan Governor is now working for Al Gore!!

        • RubyBlu

          Figures! She also teaches at Uof CA….must be the drop spot for used-up Democrats; Janet Napolitano is there as their new President.

  • red neck

    I think that the king obama regime is setting us up for a financial meltdown!
    First Detroit and then major cities all across the USSA all of which are CAUSED by the government so that the government can “save” us from ourselves in the end we are left with ( those of us that are still alive ) a full blown Marxist dictatorship.

    • $36364326

      I am amazed at how fast the last five presidents have tried to spend us into a new world oder, BUT! we the people have kept up with their spending. Sure there is big debt, but they know that the longer we the people keep bending over for this tactic eventually we will run out of money and grass roots will whine for China, or EU, or even the UNgovernment! to take over the world monetary system just so the couch potatoes can stay on their couch.

  • Bill

    The Detroit bankruptcy is the outpoint of the democratic party’s philosophy.
    And it is coming to your city and state real soon.

  • Jim B

    The Chevy Malibu is one of the worst built and engineered vehicles I’ve ever had an opportunity to be under the hood of. It is amazing how substandard Chevy has become, but what the hell, everyone (union workers) got a minimum of a 7 thousand dollar taxpayer bonus following the tax payer bailout, you can’t make this stuff up take-take-take- take, and take some more. And now Chevy dealer have to give the cars away half price to Government Motors workers, the rest of us tax payers, the one’s that bailed them out… full price! Back to Detroit, what would you have expected, stupidity and ignorance got into the system, breaded (using the government’s mandatory 12 year sentence), and now only stupidity and ignorance remains, dumb becomes dumber and ignorant votes in more ignorance. The cycle has completed in Chicago and now in Detroit. All the other ignorant states will soon follow, N.Y. and California have hid their billions of dollars of government worker and pensioners compensation obligations for a long time, they are at the tax brink, millionaires are starting to leave, common folk too. They have little time left, the smoke is clearing and the carnage will be there for all to see. Ignorance and stupidity in governments across the country will consume us for the next decade, meanwhile the Federal Government debt stands at 17 Trillion, and obligations in the 60 Trillion dollar, or more, range. Many more shoe’s to drop folks, hold on to your hats!

    • S.C.Murf

      I’ve got a 99 chevy malibu and it’s about to turn over 300,000. what it comes down to is how YOU take care of it. Still drive it daily.

      up the hill

  • wavesofgrain

    The most devastating thing this country did was to allow unionization of PUBLIC EMPLOYEES. Write your reps. Demand they DO NOT BAIL OUT DETROIT! We are still supporting the lavish Union Retirements of the GM workers from our back taxpaying pockets…it has NOT been paid back!!
    Remember the commericial where the GM rooster was spouting they paid back their bailout? They had to pull it, because it was discovered they only used hoarded bailout money to make payments!

    • davidL

      Member of the middle class? Thank unions. Not a member of the middle class and not a member of a union? Enjoy your minimum wage.

      The greatest UNION in the history of the modern world is the United States of America. Got problem with that UNION?

      • Liberty Lover

        Collectivism breeds mediocrity always and everywhere. It is a myth that unions created the middle class. Competition among capitalists for a limited supply of workers created the middle class. Union bosses dishonestly sought to take the credit. Unions can survive only where they are shielded from competition (as in the public sector). If unions could create the middle class a century ago, why aren’t they protecting that middle class today?

        • Dave

          When the Unions are gone and its only the corporations who lobby congress and pass laws that increse their bottom lines at your detriment, you will change your tune. Its happening now before your eyes…. That “liberty” you see going away? That is the consolidation of wealth to the few and those who claim are losing freedom are actually losing economic power. Not you ability to do much of anything…. But the conservative corporatists try and convince you otherwise.

          • billybob

            I have always disagreed with that premise. You get paid what you and your boss feels is the right amount. If not you have every right to walk out. However there is a condition to this. You must show that you are worth the amount you are getting paid!

          • Dave

            Does a company have a stronger position in many jobs with you as an individual or if you were part of a union that could disrupt the business of the company? Would you agree that the army works better when they work as a unit together rather than individuals doing their own thing? Same premise. When Unions are finally dead, Only corporations will be left to lobby congress. Do you think they will push for better working conditions? They will undo everything the unions got for the middle class. It wasn’t unions pushing free trade. Corporations wanted free trade so they can undermine the unions and make more money by outsourcing. Disagree all you wish but the proof is in the pudding.

          • Katrael

            I disagree with your premise that we need organizations like the UAW and others. The people who do the work will always have power when they need it if, and I mean if, they can get together. Workers can band together when they need to without an organized leach to get improvements in their working environment. I’ve seen that very thing happen here in the south.

          • Dave

            When workers band together…. thats called a “Union”. Review your history. Men like Henry Ford used thugs to beat those who dared start a union to get better wages…. We are heading back to those dark days.

          • topmah

            Henry Ford also DOUBLED his workers’ wages, & instituted the 40 hr. work week, all WITHOUT a doggone union. I won’t dispute his efforts to avoid a union–he knew that productivity & quality would be the victim if a union came in, which eventually it did, all to the detriment of the auto industry. The hilarious part was that workers ALREADY had more than that union could promise–but I suppose, just like our welfare population today, the idea of getting Ford’s wages, but not having to put forth much effort, was so tempting, they just couldn’t say ‘no’…

          • Katrael

            Good point. I guess Dave doesn’t know his history after all? I could see if he were really concerned with the welfare of his fellow man and perhaps that’s what drives him, however, it seems that he has a myopic view of life. The very same unions he seems to be fond of have perpetrated their own share of violence and bloodshed.

          • Dave

            Ford thought himself as his worker’s daddy and those wages and the 40 work week came to pass under the threat of unionization. Before that, Ford gave the workers more than GM or the others did but workers have the right to try and get the best deal they can. They can do this through unions. Individuals can be undermined.

            I know more history than topmah and Katrael realize.

          • topmah

            Unionization hadn’t even been thought about when Ford doubled wages in 1914 & changed the work week in 1928. The threat of unions began in the early 30’s, well after Ford had created work conditions that drew the brightest & the best, & also forced other businesses to raise wages & compete. You may be right about his being ‘his worker’s daddy’ since he did look out for his employees long before unions came on the scene. And if you know your history so well, I’m sure you’re familiar with the Yablonski family, murdered by union thugs. But I’m sure they just had the best interests of their fellow workers at heart….

          • Katrael

            Did I say contrary to that? I know about Henry Ford and the decision he ended up regretting. This abuse of power, like Henry Ford did, is common to all classes and races of men. That’s what the French Revolution did. Off with their heads. That’s what all of that rioting was about in the major cities of this country back in the 60’s that killed innocent people and destroyed untold numbers of business and homes. Do you condone that? Mass death and destruction were brought into the world by the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao and these monsters did it with the blessings and cooperation of the common man against minorities. And yes even the United States has it’s share of Unionized death and destruction. Look at what we did to the indigenous populations we found here. Don’t lecture me about history until you learn yours yourself.

            What I was referring to was the workers coming together without the benefit of some giant organized leach to correct real problems in their workplace. I’ve lived it and experienced it and know it can be done.

            Heck, I was a member of the USWA working in the steel mill in Youngstown Ohio. This giant leach made a sweetheart deal with the company behind the backs of it’s rank and file membership and agreed to give up what would amount to half of the wages for certain classes of workers. It took a pay cycle before the workers knew about it and this effected several hundred workers who then organized, without the aid of the giant leach, a strike against our own Union and the company it represented. The outcome? The in plant strike lasted one day with the result being the restoration of the lost wages. That’s the first time I saw what the power of the people was. It wasn’t the last.

          • Dave

            Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao also did not like unions… In China, you try and unionize, you get 10 years at least.
            I don’t want that. Unions are not perfect but they are they only counter-balance to corp abuse and that is a fact..

          • Katrael

            The monsters I mentioned organized that largest and deadliest unions of the last millennium. They were responsible for 100’s of millions of murders. The armies of the world are unions. All unions are made up of people you can’t trust. They are headed by evil greedy power hungry maniacs. they don’t care about you they only care in cosmetic appearances. The unions won’t protect you when you really need them. I’m sorry you put your faith in them and not where it belongs.
            Live well and prosper.

          • topmah

            Katrael, you are so right that workers can effect change without having to form a union & you say that you’ve seen it happen in the south–well, so have I! Years ago, my mother worked in a cotton mill–a long time worker was let go–she was well loved by her fellow workers, who promptly got together, walked out, climbed into cars & the back of a pickup, drove up & down the mill village streets, shouting that they wouldn’t go back to work until Miss Daisy (& I’m not making up that name!) was rehired–she was back at work the next day! More recently, Smithfield Packing was unionized in my state of NC–not long ago a news article quoted one of the folks who worked there but had refused to join the union, saying that she didn’t need ANYONE to argue for her rights, she was perfectly capable of doing so herself & the proof was successfully resolving a dispute & keeping her job. She said, “Why should I pay dues when I make the same wages & can take care of myself”–smart lady! And pretty indicative of the attitude here in the great south. BTW, that union came about as a result of intense pressure by the NAACP–go figure…(I would also add that since Smithfield went union, I haven’t bought a single one of their products & never will)

          • Katrael

            Thank you for sharing that. Maybe Dave will read it and a seed will have been planted that will change what I feel is his distorted view of things. You brought up another good point: the real power of the consumer. When enough people boycott a giant abusive corporation they can get changes made. No customers = no profits and thus no power. However, too many are willing to cry about things without taking any action. They cry about these giant corporations but continue to buy their goods. Go figure. It’s heatening to see that some people have the strength of character to stand up for their convictions.

          • Katrael

            Organizing is important at times but you don’t need big unions to do that. Unions don’t do a thing in the world to make businesses profitable and it’s the business that pays the wage and not the union. An example of how worthless unions can be: the unions did nothing to keep the steel mills open in Ohio, Pittsburgh and other places. What killed these steel mills? Foreign competition, rising costs for shipping, corporate greed, worker greed, failure to modernize and other things I can’t think of right now. It seems that part of the problem stemmed from a reduced demand for steel after the war. You’re correct about one thing in particular: it’ll be a bad day if the giant corporations of this world ever get absolute control.

          • mbfromwv

            Katrael: The EPA killed off the steel industry in PA, OH, and other places. Think back to 1970 when Russell Train (the first EPA administrator) went after the steel and chemical industries in the US. Foreign competition and free trade treaties came later which were the coffin nails.

          • Katrael

            You are correct about the impact that the EPA has on business. However, the steel mills in the Mahoning Valley in northeastern Ohio were already in trouble financially long before there ever was an EPA. I know I began to work there in 1971. The plant that I worked in, the coke plant, was still using equipment based on technology that dated back to a period of time to when they were first using electricity in that industry, They failed to modernize and so they couldn’t compete with foreign and domestic producers who had gone to more modern technology. Also, the Mahoning River had caught on fire once due to the pollution that floated on it. Scary stuff. Something needed to be done however, the EPA was somewhat late on scene and the mills had already begun to clean up their mess before the EPA. Pressure from the public had accomplished that. Youngstown Sheet and Tube, where I worked, was once the tenth largest producer of steel in the nation. They had nearly gone bankrupt before 1970 and were bought out by Lykes Steam Ship (I’m pulling from memory about the name of this corporation). This corporation, due to many of the things you noted, was unable to keep it’s possession alive and it finally closed the doors before the end of the decade putting about fifteen thousand people out of work. It was estimated that the community would need 365 million dollars (a lot of money at that time) just to be able to reopen the doors of this once giant company. There seemed to be a domino effect as another six steel companies in the valley closed their doors because of the same problems we spoke about. The population of Youngstown plummeted from around 150,000 to a little over 90,000 people as people fled the dying city. Now there are nothing but parks where these once thriving companies existed and this mobster infested community has never recovered.

        • Katrael

          It’s true that collectivism breeds mediocrity always and everywhere. And it’s also true that unions had little to do with the great middle class of this country. Unions don’t make jobs, businesses do. The cost of union wages are paid by the consumer who used to be able to afford it. What’s bringing this country to it’s knees is greed and laziness at the top and bottom. Actually it’s greed and a lust for power at the top and greed and laziness at the bottom. The greedy power hungry at the top find ways to pull the wool over the public’s eyes so they can get strict government regulations passed so that small businesses can’t compete. It’s a matter of stifling the competition. The greedy and lazy at the bottom who want the government to take care of them while they do little to help themselves. I see a lot of hard working people throughout this country but I believe the greedy folks have become the majority.

          • Liberty Lover

            No disagreement from me. The Founders warned us that if and when a majority discovered they could use the power of government to advance their own self interests, at the expense of others, the republic would be doomed.

          • Katrael

            The republic has long been dead and has morphed into a democracy. I believe the next step is an oligarchy. Hmm, maybe that’s where we are now and just don’t know it?

          • Jeffrey T

            Your right! Read history & see how this country was built! Upon the backs of middle & lower class immigrants!
            now how are the middle & lower class supposed to survive on a 25-29 hour work week??
            Obama claims to be working & for the middle class but he is destroying & driving into poverty the same people he CLAIMS TO BE FOR! Total BS artist.
            dont forget though that its these greedy upperclass people who CREAATE JOBS! & HIRE PEOPLE!
            Unless your self employed & pay cash the middle class are SCREWED! This current admiistration is IMPOTENT & INEPT! And only out for themselves! They dont give 2 shtakos for the lower & middle class! They are to busy PLAYING 3 RD GRADE GAMES!
            POLITICAL BS! Thats why the Obummercare employer mandate was pushed back AFTER THE 2014 ELECTIONS! To see if the Demorats could regain Control of Congress & dont want to feel the backlash of millions of Americans at the polks when that mandate hits!
            Also to push this Obemnercare the ” Taxpayers are initialy having to foot the bill of 700 million dollars!” To push obummercare in Demoraticly controlled districts & states! It could end up costing 1.5 Bilkion dolkars! For the adds

          • Jeffrey T

            Sorry for the misspelled words! Im on a nook & wont let me get to correct them! Oops lol

          • Alfred Ferguson

            Obama knows his history. He knows that the principal impetus for political change initiates with the “middle class”, historically.

            Therefore, to demolish the middle class is to perpetuate the controllers.

            The rich, and the poor, are taken care of, in respective modes and means.

            it is always, historically, the middle class–usually educated and informed–from which unrest arises.

            Obama knows his history. And he is smart. Underestimate this man at your peril.

            Rest assured, he has not underestimated you.

          • Katrael

            The sad thing is that Congress could kill this monstrosity simply by defundding it, but I suspect that this probably won’t happen? Eventually though, this whole mess will naturally die of attrition as this country finds itself unable to fund it due to hyperinflation caused by the flooding of the economy with bogus fiat currency. This eventually happens to every society that resorts to such tactics.

      • independent thinker

        When I worked on a union job I got 10 cents over minimum I left that job for a non union job that not only paid half again as much it also had better benefits.

        • billybob

          When there is no work for union members, they go to work for non union companies. They still make the payment to their Union handlers so they can attend those lavish parties and union functions. They still have to vote as a group even though they may not agree with the union and their money still go to the poltical party that the union says not their personal preference.
          All I see is a bunch of Socialist riding shot gun over their workers.

        • Jeff

          Some unions are little more than tools of management. Sounds like you found one.

          • Liberty Lover

            No, sounds like he found a typical union where the most talented and ambitious are not permitted compensation commensurate with their talent and ambition. My son worked two union jobs in which he was admonished to stop working so hard because he was making his fellow union members look bad by comparison.

          • topmah

            Yep, LL, my dad’s introduction to union ways came when he got a job at the Chrysler plant driving a forklift–part of the load dropped, he gets down to reload, only to be assailed by his supervisor, told to get back on the lift & wait for the guy who did that kind of work. Took over an hour–he couldn’t believe the waste of time & productivity. You’re right about ambition, too–the slacker gets the same pay & job protection as the guy working his fanny off, so why bother? That last part your sentence about ‘making his fellow workers look bad’, sounds oddly familiar, doesn’t it? Pretty much the attitude our schools have adopted, discouraging success at every turn. No wonder we have a generation that would put Obama back in the WH…

          • independent thinker

            Sounds like jeff is envious of my ability to leave a poor paying union job and find something much better. I would surmise he is unable to get anything better because he is one of those who keep their union job because it assures him of a job no matter how lazy or incompetent he is.

          • Jeff

            Really? It sounds like that, does it? I’ve never been a member of any union. When I met my wife about 20 years ago she was a public school teacher and the Principal at the school (a crook, by the way, who’s currently under indictment) decided he didn’t want to renew her contract. Given the nature of that district, he probably had a niece to give the job to. We met with the union rep who was really a kindergarten teacher. Hardly a Teamster, this one. If it weren’t for me utilizing my legal background, she’d never have won at the hearing. That’s why I say there are unions that aren’t really like unions at all – just the way you and LL like it.

          • Don 2

            And maybe your wife just really sucks as a teacher and should have been fired, and there was no ‘make believe’ niece to give a job to, but the principal was forced to keep her on anyway because of B.S. union rules…..and in the end the poor kids education has to suffer.

          • Jeff

            Don, I see how much information you need before rendering an opinion – exactly none. It makes your posts admittedly worthless. I don’t need to communicate with worthless a*holes. Good day.

      • topmah

        I have a problem with unions–rather unions ARE the problem. Cars priced out of reach, no incentive to progress ’cause if your fellow worker is a slacker, he gets the same as hardworking you, sluggish productivity, inflated wages that bear no resemblance to the work being paid for, & worst of all, the mob raking in the millions, while ensuring that democrats get elected, even if it takes the Chicago way to do it–you know, ‘Vote early & vote often’. Everyone I know is in the middle-class, not a single one of them was, is or was ever, in a union….

        • Dave

          Unions are the problem… Not management… I see… GM, Ford, Chrysler went from being headed by people who knew cars to lawyers and bean counters…It wasn’t the Unions that ok’d the Pontiac Aztec, The Ford Gremlin, The Chrysler K-Car. That was management.
          How much should a production line worker be paid if not a living wage in your estimation?
          Unions are not perfect by a long stretch but they are crucial to balance out corp domination in this country.

          • topmah

            Dave, since I own an Aztec, I’m mighty glad a ‘bean-counter’ okayed ’em, since it’s one of the best, most comfortable & convenient cars I’ve ever owned. That aside, your ‘living wage’ comment is hilarious! As of 2011, I quote “GM pays around $56 per hour including wages and benefits, which is less than what Ford pays but far higher than other companies like Chrysler and Hyundai Motor Co.” Ford pays $58 per hour.’ Now tell me how in the name of common sense, ANY ‘production line worker’ warrants that kind of salary! Over $50 an hour, for heaven’s sake! A ‘living wage’? Damn right–a HIGH ‘living wage’ & one that has helped kill auto manufacturing, & in the end, contributed to Detroit’s downfall…

          • Dave

            You own an Aztec? So you are the one! Apart from your glowing recommendation of that POS, it is widely regarded as an ugly unreliable car and a perfect example of a car made by a company that was not headed by a person who knows something about cars. (management, not unions). The car was a failure but I applaud you for going against the rest of the car buying world, consumer reports and general good taste. Way to be a rebel.
            How much should an auto worker be paid in your opinion to support their family? Since we insist on having the company pay for the good portion of HC unlike Germany, Japan, Korea in which the Gov pays more of the HC and retirement bill through higher taxes and gas prices. Do you want that?
            There was a time in this country where one breadwinner and one home care giver to take care of the kids was a good thing. Now according to you, that is an elitist luxury. The Walmart model is a better one in your estimation?

          • topmah

            Dave, Dave–no need to get so worked up! If indeed, the Aztec is a POS, you’re welcome to your opinion, dumb as it is. Mine is an ’03, never had any trouble with it, gets decent gas mileage, but pretty, it ain’t–which doesn’t bother me in the least. And apparently you didn’t read my entire post since ANYBODY bringing home over 50 bux an hour oughta be able to manage without having the little woman work, too. You put words in my mouth, with your ‘elitist luxury’ assumption, but no matter, I’ll just keep driving my ‘failure’ that’s paid for, & do my best to dismiss critics like you. Now go pay them union dues, like a good democrat does…

          • Dave

            First off, they are not bringing home $50 an hour… not even close… benefits include pension, HC, etc.
            second, you may a have a real peach of an Aztec. But in the car and economic world, that model was an absolute failure. That model was ok’d by the management of GM. No union was demanding to have that car made. that car was just one example of how out of touch the US car companies were with the buying public. Unions had nothing to do with that.
            Sorry if I put words in your mouth, it just gets done to me all the time so I have taken on some of the more radical conservative’s bad habits.

          • topmah

            Apology accepted, however, this conservative doesn’t have to put words in anyone’s mouth–I find it difficult to ‘improve’ on what many say–they usually do a good job of either appearing either well informed or in serious need of remedial help.

          • Alfred Ferguson

            I never encountered anyone who,if they owned one, would admit to possessing an Aztec. Fascinating.

          • Jeffrey T

            Is that like a Gremlin or Yugo?? Remember them??

          • Alfred Ferguson

            Yep. Sure do. Drove from Kansas City to Palm Springs in a Gremlin–a friend’s mistake. Stupid name for a car; stupid car; stupid trip; and me. . . stupid as well.

            But at least I had the excuse of youth; those who designed and built the Gremlin were mature men.

            Never rode more than a few blocks in a Yugo. Enough. Not even I would have been dumb enough to go further in a Yugo.

          • topmah

            I’ll happily admit it since I’m not at all impressed or influenced by the opinion of others. It’s a great car, serves my needs very well & it’s paid for. I’m glad this news is ‘fascinating’—but frankly, I’m ‘fascinated’ that you found it ‘fascinating’…

          • Alfred Ferguson

            degustibus non disputandem est.

          • topmah

            Exactly–no dispute intended & whether my taste is questionable or not, is of no import…

          • Ciccio

            The latest figure for GM is around the $70 mark. The Japanese in the US about $45

          • Bob666


            AMC built the Gremlin and the K-car put Chrysler back on the road to economic recovery by cutting in half the break even mark for a new model.

            Just saying…….

      • speak312

        yeah, a big one, it’s turned UN-American and gone Commie, only problem is half of us are revolted and revolting at the idea. Communism has no place in America and the crookedness of Communism has destroyed this countries ideals.

        • Jeffrey T

          I disagree!! No revolt has taken place here other than people bitching onlinethat does not count as a revolt! You want to see an actual revolt look at Egypt! Take a lesson from them. Untill Americans are demonstrating in the streets in masses like that their wont be a change in the USA and our current decline will continue as more cities go tits up and our world cradit rating continues to decline!:. This has NEVER HAPPENED IN US HISTORY! Beforevthe current BS Artist took office!
          So untill people get off their asses and stop tweeting & bitching on here were stuck with the current POS in the WH & inept Senate & Congress
          We should be using our Constitutional rights to FORCE A CHANGE IN DC!
          IM waiting for ANYONE to take the bull by the horns & go into the streets gathering in the tens of thousands like in Egypt to say NO MORE!
          Thats a Revolt as well as our own RevolutionaryvWar against a tyrranical govt ” which we have now”
          you wont get the truth reported by this MSM which is Govt controlled! ( out of Obamas mouth himself)

  • Dave

    Detroit was taken down by Democrats, Free-Traders, Reagan Republicans with their ideas of tax cut and spend.

    Its funny we spend billions and trillions on Bush’s war in Iraq so that China can get all the oil contracts there and we can give Iran more power, but we don’t help our own people. Severely misplaced priorities.

    The corporatists in both parties are intent on cutting all our throats for their own gain.

    • billybob

      I agree with helping your neighbors, but I don’t think I would like to throw my money away on policies that spend more than they take in. There is no color discrimination to stupidity or ineptness. You either have the tools or you don’t. This is no simple matter and we can blame the pope but it will not solve the nagging problem of being the cornicopia of the masses. You don’t go into debt when you feel that you need to help your fellow man. At some point your fellow man needs to help themselves. Apparently these folks never got the memo!

      • Dave

        I agree BillyBob, thats why we have to decide as a country what our priorities are and then PAY for what we spend. The Reagan philosophy did not work. Spending 700B a year on the military does not work. Passing trade laws that make it easy to ship good paying and revenue generating jobs to other countries does not work.
        We are in the midst of the baby-boomer generation retiring and we made a social pact to take care of those people in their retirements. In this country we have more people retiring and using more social services than new people entering the workforce to offset that spending. We have to realize this change in our society and deal with it.
        The free ride is over for Detroit and other cities, the south, the mid-west with their farm subsidies…Its time to reassess our priorities and cut the items from spending that does not help us become a better society and economy for all of us, not just the few.
        Its time to start by getting big monied interests out of politics.

        • John

          Dave you have no clue. The Reagan philosophy did in fact work. It allowed our country 12 years of prosperity. He cut entitlement programs and lowered taxes. he was having to fight a democrat majority to get that done. That was a major achievement. George stupid bush the first allowed Tip Oneil to sucker him into a huge tax increase. Reagan did not get to cut spending as he was dealing with demodorks. Despite that when Clinton got in office he did the usual democrat thing and saw what it was doing to our economy and when the Republicans got the majority he went with the flow and the republicans got Reagan’s philosophy back on track. Thus we had the 90’s with dot com boom. Then we had the slime ball guys in the energy industry and a few ponzi schemes to make the news. The department of energy, a Jimmy Carter creation allowed the likes of Enron to play their games and steal several 100 billions dollars. Another democrat creation of course. I am not saying the Republicans are without fault. There plenty of fault to go around. But the democrats are the true party of evil.

    • Vis Fac

      is ever ODUMBO’s or the DUMBOCRITES fault right? So whenever you have trouble defending and/or nothing to substantiate your position you simply fall back on the Federal Board for Blaming Bush.. Then in a little while all is soon to be forgotten.

      • Scifidave

        That is so lame, Force Recon. You got nothing to offer, fall back on the old, ‘it’s never Obama’s fault’ cliche.

        Government, people. Not Democrats or Republicans. Congress, bought and paid for by the rich, and their legions of mindless followers spouting sound bites, catch phrases and rhetoric.

        Obama is no different than any other president in that he is a politician beholding to the same people who bought his predecessors. Socialists, commies, left wingers – they aren’t the ones you need to fear. Money, and the power it buys, is in the grips of hard core capitalists. You ignore that at our peril.

        You can blame socialist, commies or even bad unions on Detroit’s failure, but that ignores the giant elephant in the middle of the room – greedy capitalist without an ounce of compassion or any sense of patriotism.

        It’s all about the money. It all is. If you haven’t figured that out then nothing anyone can say, no amount of supporting data or horror stories will bend your closed mind.

        You want to know why anything is the way it is, follow the money. That, you can take to the bank.

        • Katrael

          Politics used to be a way of being a public servant now it’s the path to wealth and power bought and paid for by big, big money. It takes a fortune to be elected president. To run for US Senate it can cost anywhere from 1.7 million in Utah to 29 million in California. You gotta know somebody to get there. Well, it must be worth it to spend that much money. My bet is that most politicians are beholden to somebody with lots of influence and they probably dance to the tune of those they are beholden to. However, it’s also apparent to me that you can’t get there unless people vote you. That means you have to find a way to make the voter trust you better than your opponent. There’s nothing like freebies to buy your votes with. Promise the vast majority of poor that you’ll keep feeding, clothing, medicating, housing them and they’ll love you until the money runs out. Like you said: follow the money.

  • $36364326

    Dems destroyed Detroit? Not if barry boy can help it. He is hell bent on spending every tax dollar he can muster in order to bail these “failed” cities out.

    • John

      Barry may mouth the words, but his true agenda is the destruction of the United States and so far he has done a great job. I just hope that the hammer is about to fall on the dems and Barry and when it does, it won’t be pretty. When the welfare blacks start rioting they may find that we the people don’t tolerate it at all. Machine guns are very effective at mowing done rioters. Barry in a National Security cell without a lawyer, and no family or friends, no reporters. He will just love that as he just may discover what water boarding is all about. He will talk and when he does there will be thousands fleeing and thousands going to jail for a trial. Treason is an executable offense and a firing squad would have at least 100 million volunteers.

  • Al Chemist

    The socialist/commie/democrats destroyed Detroit, and there is little doubt about it. But, I’ll bet the socialist/commie/democrats will come out with the excuse that not enough money was spent and the government was too small. Oh, wait, they’ve already said that. Never mind.


    Detroit is a islam foothold and the cult islam is going to pour a lot of money into the move to fix Detroit and drag it back into the 21st century. The kind of liberal/union acts that brought this city to it’s knees and cause it demise is what is still in charge and the cult islam has siezed the opportunity to help these same people maintain the strangle hold and deflect free enterprise, tax relief and entrepreneurship to flower in this city…….the war is here on our soil.

  • Scott

    Any town, immersed in total corruption (unions being a part) regardless of party affiliation is going to be gutted. At this point, my only advice for Detroit, ‘Beware of golden parachutes (In the public sector), and Detroit residents aren’t going to be the only ones paying for them.

  • Rocketman

    MSNBC has claimed that it’s “small government” that is responsible for the cities decline and bankruptcy. They have to be really delusional to think that 60 years of Democrat city control isn’t whats responsible for this disaster. Look at the Detroit of today America, that’s your future if the Democrats ever take complete control in this country.

    • John

      MSNBC knows full well what is the cause of the total fall of Detroit. They are a full leg of the American communist party. The democratic party is the true party of evil. They are hate filled and have perfected the lie. Character assassination is now in their DNA and telling the truth is totally foreign to them.

  • Alondra

    Detroit’s bankruptcy didn’t happen overnight. Detroit’s destruction is completely men-made. “The Motor City isn’t dying. It’s dead. ”

    Detroit: The worst Ghetto in the USA! Facts and a tour over the Dying Detroit

    P.S. From the 1962 the Detroit’s Mayor was and is DemocRat.

    P.S.S. The Kenyan Kriminal and Leftists’ goal is to make America a BIG Detroit

    • mbfromwv

      Outsourcing and the lack of import duties on products from Red China and other “sweatshop” countries has ruined cities and businesses across the entire country. The EPA is the nail in the coffin for American manufacturing. Your electric power bills are on their way up thanks to the EPA, and more businesses will fail. Detroit is just one example.

      • John

        Look at it from the standpoint of a business. You are established in a city or county. Then the demoncrats come in and make one regulation after another that serves no purpose other than raising business cost. Taxes are raised by the demons, and the Unions come in in with ever bigger demands. You have customers and you also have competitors. To be able to compete, with the democrats anti business stance, you would have to raise you prices to the point that no one would buy your products. So you don’t want to go out of business and the only workable option is to outsource your production. Now you don’t like this as the quality of your product will suffer, and the logistics of outsourcing with all the shipping, export, import regulations and taxes, your are forced again to go to a very cheap country to get it done. Then the lefties who cause the problem in the first place with their incredibly stupid politics is accusing you of all the evil things in the world. The demodorks caused it, but they won’t own up to it. Always blame the other guy and don’t forget to lie.


    Why is there money to destroy Syria and other middle-eastern countries, but there is no money to save Detroit and other American cities…soon to follow?

    • Jake Thomas

      You can give them all the money they need and it will just go down the same black hole. None of these states should get bailed out.

    • John

      First we should not be giving money to any Muslim country. Then we should not bail out any of these democrat destroyed cities or states as California is getting closer to the brink. There has been several states that have looked into seceding from the US. California may be thrown out. liberal run for now, 33 years. And don’t call Schwarzenegger a Republican, he was a Rino at best. All they know is raise taxes and spend more,. give more away to those that don’t want to work. Pay for illegal aliens and make more stupid regulations that squash business. Businesses are leaving California at an alarming rate. You don’t save these places, you let them go bankrupt. The only way they learn to be responsible is by getting burned by their stupidity. DC want Home rule so the Demodorks can go bankrupt in two years?

  • ridge runner

    What party gves iour enemies billions every year , who want to kill Americans? The Zimmerman trial show what race is accepting of muslims, abhorant behavior, and for 13% of population, but inhabitate 85% of all prison populations.. The same race is closing in on 90% out of wedlock births. Too stupid to read history, so the bush and 3rd world mentality get stronger every year. Also the fascist Democrat communist Party cheers on the thuggish mind set.

  • inluminato

    GM destroyed Detroit and also Flint, Michigan, all so they could make more profits for outdated car models. Greed, pure and simple. Whites left Detroit, much like they left Philadelphia when blacks moved in.

    • John

      Another demodork blaming Business? Detroit was destroyed by democratic politics. Business will stay put for a stable, affordable workforce. Unions raise the cost of doing business to the point that the customers cannot afford the product so business has to respond by going where than can afford the labor. Common sense. If Union leaders were required by LAW to go to business school and pass a detailed test on running a profitable business before they accepted a Union management job it would be totally different. But they don’t so they bankrupt every business they get involved in eventually. Greed, the Union bosses make tens of millions why the workers pay ridiculous union dues and have to worry about the company going out of business, because the unions have bled they so badly. In Maryland where I grew up there was a dairy company, Thompson dairy. The drivers who were making 350 bucks a week in the 1960’s, that was a lot of money back then, wanted more. So the Union was pushing for a strike. Mr Thompson said to the drivers and the union pigs, if you strike I will shut this company down. They went on strike and he shut the company down and he was by far the biggest dairy company in the Mid Atlantic. All of those drivers were then looking for jobs and Sealtest was the only delivering dairy left in the Mid Atlantic. If you had worked for Thompson dairy, Sealtest would not hire you because you were union. their drivers were making 265 a week. But, when you go from 350 to 0, 265 looks real good.

      • Scifidave

        Still playing the old D and R pony show game, are we? Them damn liberals! Bad politicians, for sure. Oh, and lets not forget them evil unions.

        It’s all about the money. Business is all about the money. Business buys government and we blame the politicians for being bought or being stupid or being liberal, you name it, but make sure you don’t blame Republicans or Tea Baggers or the Fed or Wall Street.

        If you read the history of Detroit and the Big 3 and looked at the larger picture, you’d discover just how instrumental the bean counters were in destroying the auto industry in Detroit.

        Or you could turn a blind eye, rely in your faith in the free market system, pretend that the big money people really give a crap about workers and pray big money will fix everything.

        Obviously you have no clue as to the relationship between the auto makers and the unions, the huge profits that were being made (remember, it’s all about the money) in the 60s and 70s. You’re due for a history lesson. Go learn.

  • merlin

    I had a Dodge D-500 Convertible – a real Super-Car. But I sold it ASAP when I learned from my mechanic that Chrysler was no longer supporting the D-500 or its twin, the Chrysler 300. I traded for a little Dodge Lancer as no one wanted my Super-Wheels. What good is a Detroit Hot Rod with no spare parts? Then I discovered Mercedes and BMW – never a US car again. Merlin.

  • Dennis


    Talk about terminal……… be sure you read to the very bottom line……

    Frosty Wooldridge (born 1947) is a US journalist, writer, environmentalist, traveler


    By Frosty Wooldridge

    You won’t hear about this on the 6:00 News. What a mess!

    For 15 years, from the mid 1970’s to 1990, I worked in Detroit, Michigan. I watched it descend into the abyss of crime, debauchery, gun play, drugs, school truancy, car-jacking, gangs and human depravity. I watched entire city blocks burned out. I watched graffiti explode on buildings, cars, trucks, buses and school yards. Trash everywhere!

    Detroiters walked through it, tossed more into it, and ignored it. Tens of thousands, and then hundreds of thousands today exist on federal welfare, free housing, and food stamps!

    With Aid to Dependent Children, minority women birthed eight to 10, and in one case, one woman birthed 24 children as reported by the Detroit Free Press, all on American taxpayer dollars.

    A new child meant a new car payment, new TV, and whatever mom wanted. I saw Lyndon Baines Johnson’s ‘Great Society’ flourish in Detroit. If you give money for doing nothing, you will get more hands out taking money for doing nothing.

    Mayor Coleman Young, perhaps the most corrupt mayor in America, outside of Richard Daley in Chicago, rode Detroit down to its knees… He set the benchmark for cronyism, incompetence, and arrogance. As a black man, he said, “I am the MFIC.” The IC meant “in charge”.

    You can figure out the rest Detroit became a majority black city with 67 percent African-Americans.

    As a United Van Lines truck driver for my summer job from teaching math and science, I loaded hundreds of American families into my van for a new life in another city or state.

    Detroit plummeted from 1.8 million citizens to 912,000 today. At the same time, legal and illegal immigrants converged on the city for the free government handouts, so much so, that Muslims number over 300,000. Mexicans number 400,000 throughout Michigan, but most work in Detroit. As the whites moved out, the Muslims moved in.

    As the crimes became more violent, the whites fled. Finally, unlawful Mexicans moved in at a torrid pace. Detroit suffers so much shoplifting that grocery stores no longer operate in many inner city locations. You could cut the racial tension in the air with a knife! Detroit may be one of our best examples of multiculturalism: pure dislike, and total separation from America…

    Today, you hear Muslim calls to worship over the city like a new American Baghdad with hundreds of Islamic mosques in Michigan, paid for by Saudi Arabia oil money. High school flunk out rates reached 76 percent last June, according to NBC’s Brian Williams. Classrooms resemble more foreign countries than America… English? Few speak it! The city features a 50 percent illiteracy rate and growing.

    Unemployment hit 28.9 percent in 2009 as the auto industry vacated the city. In Time Magazine’s October 4, 2009, “The Tragedy of Detroit: How a great city fell, and how it can rise again,” I choked on the writer’s description of what happened. “If Detroit had been ravaged by a hurricane, and submerged by a ravenous flood, we’d know a lot more about it,” said Daniel Okrent. “If drought and carelessness had spread brush fires across the city, we’d see it on the evening news every night.” Earthquake, tornadoes, you name it, if natural disaster had devastated the city that was once the living proof of American prosperity, the rest of the country might take notice.

    But Detroit, once our fourth largest city, now 11th and slipping rapidly, has had no such luck. Its disaster has long been a slow unwinding that seemed to remove it from the rest of the country.

    Even the death rattle that in the past year emanated from its signature industry brought more attention to the auto executives than to the people of the city, who had for so long been victimized by their dreadful decision making.”

    As Coleman Young’s corruption brought the city to its knees, no amount of federal dollars could save the incredible payoffs, kickbacks and illegality permeating his administration. I witnessed the city’s death from the seat of my 18-wheeler tractor trailer because I moved people out of every sector of decaying Detroit.

    “By any quantifiable standard, the city is on life support. Detroit ‘s treasury is $300 million short of the funds needed to provide the barest municipal services,” Okrent said. “The school system, which six years ago was compelled by the teachers’ union to reject a philanthropist’s offer of $200 million to build 15 small, independent charter high schools, is in receivership. The murder rate is soaring, and 7 out of 10 remain unsolved. Three years after Katrina devastated New Orleans, unemployment in that city hit a peak of 11%. In Detroit today, the unemployment rate is 28.9%. That’s worth spelling out: twenty-eight point nine percent.

    At the end of Okrent’s report, and he will write a dozen more about Detroit, he said, “That’s because the story of Detroit is not simply one of a great city’s collapse, it’s also about the erosion of the industries that helped build the country we know today. The ultimate fate of Detroit will reveal much about the character of America in the 21st century.

    If what was once the most prosperous manufacturing city in the nation has been brought to its knees, what does that say about our recent past? And if it can’t find a way to get up, what does that say about America s future?”

    As you read in my book review of Chris Steiner’s book,”$20 Per Gallon”, the auto industry won’t come back. Immigration will keep pouring more and more uneducated third world immigrants from the Middle East into Detroit, thus creating a beachhead for Islamic hegemony in America. If 50 percent illiteracy continues, we will see more homegrown terrorists spawned out of the Muslim ghettos of Detroit. Illiteracy plus Islam equals walking human bombs.

    You have already seen it in Madrid, Spain, London, England, and Paris, France with train bombings, subway bombings and riots. As their numbers grow, so will their power to enact their barbaric Sharia Law that negates republican forms of government, first amendment rights, and subjugates women to the lowest rungs on the human ladder. We will see more honor killings by upset husbands, fathers and brothers that demand subjugation by their daughters, sisters and wives. Muslims prefer beheadings of women to scare the hell out of any other members of their sect from straying. Multiculturalism: what a perfect method to kill our language, culture, country and way of life.



    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” — Benjamin Franklin


    The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

    • Dennis

      That is what Marco Rubio & Obama want to bring to the whole country, a total collapse of The United States of America. These people need to be removed from office, there term limit ended when they broke there oath to defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights , Voting will never work. It’s time for the government to fear the people, not the other way around.

      • Scifidave

        Rubio and Obama? Look at the big picture. These guys are pawns. The are beholding to powerful people that make these guys look like chumps. You think this started with Obama? Get a clue.

        This problem knows no party allegiance. All you’re doing is playing into the D and R pony show, doing exactly what they want you to do – generating distractions so they can do what they want in plain sight.

        I am really tired of this partisan poop fest. Wake up.

        • Charlie Cardenas

          You need to look at the plan Obama is following:
          The Cloward & Piven Plan.
          He’s the only one who is or has followed that plan.

  • Jake Thomas

    My only hope is that the feds DO NOT BAIL this city out. Take a look at the vast majority of cities that are failing. Seems they are all run by democrats and have been for years. Responsible citizens should not have to bail out irresponsible politicians. My problem, I live in California which as a state will probably go soon. I don’t want it bailed out. Although I’ve never voted for a democrat for state office, there are to many that see what these slimebags give them and will continually vote for them. Let them and the state go to hell. Hopefully, I’ll get out before they can institute a “Get out of California Tax”