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The Democrats’ Cayman Island Misdirection

July 13, 2012 by  

The Democrats’ Cayman Island Misdirection
PHOTOS.COM
One way to preserve your wealth is to get money out of the United States.

Democrats in general and President Barack Obama in particular — aided by a sycophantic and fawning news media — are ranting about Mitt Romney’s offshore accounts, portraying him as evil and greedy because he chose to “hide” his money in “secretive” Cayman Island banks.

That such a divide-and-conquer strategy by Democrats might work on the American people demonstrates how successful progressive doublespeak is on an ignorant electorate. Your money has become their money, and many people now see that as perfectly normal.

From ABC News: “Rebecca J. Wilkins, a tax policy expert with Citizens for Tax Justice, said the federal government loses an estimated $100 billion a year because of tax havens.”

Or, to put it truthfully, American people get to keep $100 billion of their own money each year because they invest it wisely by avoiding confiscatory American tax laws and American fiat money.

I have for years recommended strategies to my readers to help them preserve their wealth. Among those are to get money out of the United States — the best way is to invest in a Swiss annuity — because the U.S. government is a greedy and insatiable monster that is stealing from you each day through overt taxes and the hidden tax of inflation.

But the progressives and statists in government believe and have convinced you that all you have is theirs and it’s up to them to determine how much, in their benevolence, you can keep. The American people blindly accept this as gospel.

There are plenty of reasons to reject Romney as a good candidate for President, but his efforts to secure his wealth by placing it overseas is not of one of them.

However, his unwillingness to address — much less promise to change — the tax laws and, more importantly, the Federal Reserve that make it necessary to look outside the United States for wealth-protection strategies is a very good reason to reject him as just another in a long line of greedy psychopaths who want to take what you’ve worked hard for.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • http://theconservativecrawfish.wordpress.com reelman1946

    SCHEXNAYDER’S LAW

    Utopian socialism is not reality-based…
    its fantasy-based and hence MUST be deception-based. This is why so many thinking humans are puzzled by the words/actions of the arrogant apostles of utopian socialism, who, lacking ethical or moral boundaries…have no problem with dishonesty.
    THEY MUST use distractions, bold lies, demons and smears to promote or protect their toxic policies…they have no choice…they are selling fire (toxic utopian socialism) to a scarecrow (the voter)…thus reality-based thinkers must tolerate their bold lies daily as we watch in amazement.
    BTW, they cannot be debated (its like teaching algebra to a dog)…
    only exposed and defeated.

    • Dorian Douglas

      to Reelman

      Brilliant. Wish I had said that.

      Dorian Douglas

      • Robert Smith

        SOME: “American people get to keep $100 billion of their own money each year because they invest it wisely by avoiding confiscatory American tax laws and American fiat money.”

        The rest of us 99% have to make up the difference.

        BTW, Mit Romney is in the 1%.

        Rob

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear Robert Smith,

          Offshore investments aren’t limited to the 1%. They are available to anyone who wants to trouble themselves to learn about them and use them. I have written about them for years both here (for free) and via my newsletter, The Bob Livingston Letter™ (www.boblivingstonletter.com subscription required). The Sovereign Society is another good source of free information.

          The bottom line is: you can choose to remain ignorant and envious, or you can take steps to protect your assets. The choice is yours. It’s obvious whicih route you’ve chosen.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • JeffH

        Robert Smith, you keep rambling on about this 1% v 99% myth as if you are a victim. Of course you also consider yoursef, by your own past statements, to be an OWS supporter. Imagine that?
        The Marxist/socialist/progressive propaganda machine has control of your thoughts and you’re too dumbed down to grasp it.

        As Mr. Livingston pointed out these offshore accounts aren’t limited to any particular group. If you weren’t so dumbed down and feeling sorry for yourself you, too, could take advantage of these offshore accounts yourself. Isn’t it just terrible that these evil 1%’s use legal means to protect their assets from the thieving 99%’s that believe in redistribution?

        • Xavier

          JeffH,

          How dare you write, and/or speak, common sense to a lib? Do you not know that a door knob has more interest, let alone a purpose?

          Regards….

      • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

        Robert Smith, ENVY / COVETOUSNESS is depravity.

        Robert, the God’s 10th Commandment is: “You SHALL NOT COVET your neighbor’s house, you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife… nor ANYTHING THAT IS YOUR NEIGHBOR’S.”

        “Let your conduct be without COVETOUSNESS; be content with such things as you have.” (Hebrew 13)

        “For where ENVY and SELF-SEEKING exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.” (James 3)

        God says: “…if anyone is not willing to work, neither should he eat.” (2Thessalonians 3)
        If Romney is smarter than you are, could make money, Why are you COVET?

        “The sluggard is wiser in his own eyes than seven men…” (Pr.26)
        “The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor. All day long he craves and craves, but the righteous gives and does not hold back.” (Pr.21)

        “The soul of the sluggard desires, and has nothing; but the soul of the diligent shall be richly supplied.” (Pr.13)

        Romney was a good STEWARD of HIS money.
        “For to everyone, who has, will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one, who has not, even what he has will be taken away.’” (Matthew 25)

        Robert, read Matthew 25:14-29. By this parable Jesus explains that the hard working and thoughtful men are invited into the business. But lazy one was fired. Jesus is very critical of bad stewardship/bad investments.

        So, as you can see, the Gospel of Jesus IS NOT about social justice. It’s about equal opportunity.

        Benjamin Franklin said: “The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their own poverty.”

        But you, liberals, do not want to buy a cow. You want to get milk for free? You are freeloaders.

        Robert do not COVET! It’s a SIN.

      • Thinking About

        Alondra, since you quote the bible, what about “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”.

        • Proud to be a Believer

          Let me clarify that phrase in the Bible.. What that means is to render unto Cesar not enslaving taxation which we have now. Remember when Jesus turned over the tax collectors tables in front of the synagog. Well.

          • baldmurph

            Wasn’t that because they were cheating with the weights in converting other coins to the coins required for the offering/tax? I recall the words “house of prayer” and “den of thieves” appearing in that report.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Robert: SOME: “American people get to keep $100 billion of their own money each year because they invest it wisely by avoiding confiscatory American tax laws and American fiat money.”

        The rest of us who have decided to live on welfare and food stamps, are sh*t out of luck. Who’s gonna pay for our abortions, pay for our drug-addictions, our beer, our cable, pay for our internet services so we can continue to convince people to vote for that one person who will ensure that our life’s necessities, will be payed for by the one’s who are stupid enough to go and work, and make money?

        BTW, Mit Romney is not one of us.

        Rob

      • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

        Dear ‘Thinking About’, the libs do not surprise me by their ignorance in everything, but especially in the Biblical Theology. They are mocking God & Jesus Christ, but sometimes they are using one verse or even an half of it out of the contest as for example your anti-Christian “great leader” did, who is leaning to the evil islam.

        Thus at National Prayer Breakfast speech on February 2, 2012 Barry the Kenyan said:
        “But for me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’s teaching that ‘FOR UNTO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH SHALL BE REQUIRED’.” He even DID NOT provide the link of sentence, which he pulled OUT OF THE CONTEXT the idea of which was totally opposite to his “preaching”.

        Here is a full context from the Luke 12:
        “42 And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. FOR EVERYONE TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, FROM HIM MUCH WILL BE REQUIRED; AND TO WHOM MUCH HAS BEEN COMMITTED, OF HIM THEY WILL ASK THE MORE.”

        This Parable is about the management of the business, which was entrusted to the CEO, Manager, Supervisor or whatever his title is.

        This is only one of many examples how a “Christian” The Kenyan is distorting and twisting the Christ’s Gospel. He does the devil’s work – deceive people, because he is of HIS FATHER THE DEVIL, and the desires of his father he does. His father was a murderer from the beginning, and does NOT STAND in the TRUTH, because there is NO TRUTH IN HIM. He speaks a LIE … for HE IS A LIAR and the father of it. (John 8:44)

        Read an article “I’m Only My Brother’s Keeper if My Brother is My Sheep” by Jerry Bowyer.

        To be continue

        • needfulthings

          Islam isn’t anymore evil than Christianity!

          Don’t pray in my school, and I will not think in your church

          • baldmurph

            A good Muslim is a very good human being. Using your particular flavor of the faith of your choice as a club to beat on those of different variations is NOT being a good Muslim, Protestant, Catholic, or Evangelical whatever. Unhappily, we have centuries of history of doing just that for the greater glory of God . . . . and we do not seem to have learned much in the process. Currently the Muslims seem to have center stage, and the religion is getting the rap for the activities of many using their particular brand to build up their own personal positions. We’ve seen it before among self-proclaimed Christians, and it is the same old same old.

          • Kim Simmons

            Baldmurph, I think you might need to go back and review the history of Islam and not the white washed version. You will find that being a Muslim is far different then being a good human being. Being a good human being is an individuals choice, no matter what religion, but being a good Muslim means there is no tolerance for another religion.You are not allowed to switch religions to one that suits your personal beliefs, see almost any news about a person changing religions to verify that, generally it means death to the individual.
            In the last 1200 years a lot as changed, Christianity has “grown” up and become extremely tolerant of all religions. It is just too bad Muslims are not allowed by their religion to become tolerant, just think what the human race could accomplish. But instead we are headed to a massive final war. The Japanese learned the hard way, just as the Americans did that an all out war will mean no one wins and this was the reason for sitting down and trying to talk thru disagreements. While those in Europe, even Russia understood the rationale for serious sit downs, there are others who use it to delay and threaten.
            Meanwhile we have a President who was brought up as a muslim and converted -supposedly anyway as we have never seen the proof only to take his work for it. He came out of almost no where with no experience except as a part time Senator in hi first term.
            Then he goes out and apoligizes to everyone because America was so bad.
            Now instead of realizing that the Dodd-Frank Bill that forced banks to give housing loans to people who had no way to pay back the loan and stopping it, they blame the big banks.
            Typical Democrat’s, blame everyone but themselves and take no responsiblity for their actions.
            Now Obama can not run on his record because it is so bad so he attacks a man who has experience by lying to everyone’s face, something he is very good at and because he is black and in the position he is in, people will believe him.
            Americans have become sheep and we are being led to our own destruction by a man who despises everything American, except of course the power he has to make it happen. We actually deserve what we will get if this man gets to stay in office.

          • needfulthings

            We do not NOW nor have we ever had a muslim President ….. Another Fixed Noise entertainment watcher.

          • Proud to be a Believer

            Crazy, No one knows who or what your favorite is that is for sure. At least we know for sure that Romney is a Christian and was not educated in being a Muslim nor the Koran. You defenders will come up with anything and show your stupidity about a number of things that you know nothing about.

          • Kim Simmons

            Needfulthings me thinks you should learn to read and understand ENGLISH as it was written. Not once did I say Obama was a Muslim. However I did say he was raised and he converted, supposedly to Christianity. But that is ok that you shout from the hilltops Obama is not a Muslim, just goes to show we say one thing and you shout about something else that was not being talked about. Your reply actually speaks volumes about how the liberals try to make points about a non-issue.
            Same thing is going on today in Congress if you think about it. The House passes all sorts of Bills which go to the Senate. The result is not what our forefathers ever dreamed would happen, very little. You see Obama has his little puppet, you know Harry, that controls what will be taken up in the Senate, and the old puppet will only allow what his master , Obama wants to come up. He controls his Senate by not allowing any bill he does not like to be even talked about on the floor of the Senate. But then Obama and his boy Harry keep saying to the American people the House is a do nothing Congress. Mis-direction is the Democrat way, taken straight from the Lenin playbook, I believe.
            So the result is instead of trying to fix the country old Harry and Obama are doing everything they can to obstruct and mis-direct by not allowing their fellow democrats to even debate what the House has passed. At least in the house they debate, which is the American way.

          • macgyver1948

            Kim Simmons … You included in your post “The House passes all sorts of Bills which go to the Senate. The result is not what our forefathers ever dreamed would happen, very little. You see Obama has his little puppet, you know Harry, that controls what will be taken up in the Senate, and the old puppet will only allow what his master , Obama wants to come up. He controls his Senate by not allowing any bill he does not like to be even talked about on the floor of the Senate”.

            I suppose that is how you see it, after all, I do not think you would say it if you didn’t believe it. It is amazing how those on your side see what you do. You mention “our forefathers”. I guess you mean our founding fathers. Ok, let’s see other things our forefathers might not like if they saw what has been happening since their days. Let’s see if the founders would like the Tea Party or the GOP today.

            There are a lot of things the Founders would not like when it comes to how our country/government has evolved since their days. Yes, the massive size of government is something they didn’t want, the want a small central government and for the states to do their thing. I too want a smaller and very much less intrusive government. And I want many things the founders want which I see as major problems today and some of which should have been put into the Constitution. Some of those very needed thing the founders felt “We The People” should be from within the states.

            One of those, not put in, things they wanted was Separation Of Church And State” and it is so clear with what is going on that should have been a part of our Constitution. If we are to be a nation of tolerance and acceptance toward all religions No religions should have any say in how our government works. We need to be a nation of morals, as the founders said, but we can’t allow it to be as it was before our Revolutionary War.

            Another thing the founders wanted for us was to be protected from Corporate influence in Government. They wanted “Separation Of Corporations And State” because they feared that too would influence Government way in the corporations favor with their huge money. It is so funny how very right they are today. The founders said only live beings could be citizens so Corporations cannot be. That very much shows whose side Romney is on with his “Corporations are people too”.

            The founders put in place many protections/laws from Corporations for us from but over time, especially since the Civil War, Corporations with their huge money bought politicians and had so many of those protections removed or hidden. Why would you suppose Corporations with be on opposite sides of the fence with the Founders?

            I love this quote and what I wrote in the next paragraph so I use them often. There are so many other things the Founding Fathers feared for us that the TP/GOP are going for but I will end this here. “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” – Thomas Jefferson

            Thomas Jefferson and others were very much in favor of “Separation Of Corporation And State”. How very wise to this day they were. We need to know more of the Funders, as they really were and not how they are being phonied up to us today by the Right to support themselves against us.

          • Kim Simmons

            Well excuse me for saying forefathers, as mine were fighting in the revolution against England.
            BUt the rationale was the same. they all would be spinning in their graves if they saw that instead of debating in the Senate like they should be, One man is holding the country hostage to his own thinking, that man is Harry Reid, Obama’s puppet in the Senate. Hate to tell you but that is a fact, maybe you should due reading a touch more instead of watching Obamavision.
            As far as the Tea party, I would bet you would find every one of the founding fathers in the Tea Party, incase you forgot American history, the reason what is now called a Tea Party exists is because there was an original Tea Party. The reasons were justified then and now even more. Government has become too big, it can do anything it wants. Those elected are the temporary government, but it is they who put the rules in place for those that are there year round, day after day, that just gets bigger and bigger. We can not regulate everything we do, we can not have this idiot of a President who says one thing then does another. He should not state, I am going to put you out of business and then do it and have an economy survive. Green technology is great, if it works 24/7, and it does not at this time, but what does, coal, gas and nuclear. We have the largest supply of coal on Earth but this idiot wants them out of business before technologies are in place.
            Government should not be using public dollars to build businesses like this guy has been doing. You see the Tea Party exists for a reason, to remove the idiots from government.

          • macgyver1948

            Kim Simmon.. I’m sorry. I just wanted to be sure were were thinking the same founders, I can’t alway be sure with how people write and express themselves. I wouldn’t put you down for that.

            The real original tea party event, a political protest by the Sons of Liberty in Boston, a town in the British colony of Massachusetts, against the British government and the monopolistic East India Company that controlled all the tea imported into the colonies because of taxed tea not being returned to England with decisions made by officials in Boston. The tax was going into corporate and their government reps’ pockets and not to England as it was supposed to. I remember the history but you cannot align yourself with a group just by taking their name. Your Tea Party today is so aligned with the big corporations and the US founders, as I keep saying, very much feared the corporations and their influence.

            Most of the founders of today’s TP, like the Koch Klan, is very much that corporate type the US founders feared. You should know the financing and the people who are the entity behind that group you might support. Research the Koch Klan, The brothers Charles and David and their father. Then check out their predecessor group of today’s Tea Party, the John Birch Society. See who the Koch Klan, from their history, as the anti civil rights group, and totally and only for Corporations group, you really might want to support.

            I say it again, The two Tea Parties would not get along but I know you wont take my word for it so do the research I suggest on the Koch Klan and the real US founders as they were really toward the Big Corporations. Also again, the founders feared big corporate money in government and they were so right. For any who say “Corporations are people too” might get shot by Thomas Jefferson and other founders if they were here.

            “The reasons were justified then”, as you say but not at all now.

            I agree with you that the government has become way to big but also way to intrusive. The founders wanted a small citizens government* for the feds and the states should do their own thing. But we have what we have and it could kill us more if we just chop away at it without compassion and prudence. It will have to take a bit of time and we have to insist of a great deal of Government Reform. That not only includes reforming Congress and the oval office but also many of the agencies. We have to get corporate influence out of government where ever it is.

            We also have to include in the very needed reform making sure whatever the congress does to impose on us they too will nbe so imposed. Lot’s of things are needed, like term limits and government pensions and other benefits being more in line with what we, their employers, deem affordable. And we the people should have been given the vote on the bush wars and Obamacare. We the people should have been able to extract what is not good for us in Obamacare. Then mush of the day to day stuff Congress can make pigs of themselves but not at our expense.

            Those we elect, as well who are appointed to whatever agency, must fear us and being reelected more than they desire their huge corporate campaign contributions. And those “contributions” must never be investments in the campaigner. And all contributions much be considered public because it is government, a public entity and not at all private, and all the contributors names must be made public, from whatever source.

            I could go on and on with the reform so many see as necessary but I think you get the idea. It all has to be about “We the People” and not special “interests” groups and to their advantages over that of “We The People”.

            *The founders wanted a tidy Citizens Government, where the elected would go to do the people business and then go home and change the baby. “Citizens Government” to the founders meant “Government Of The People, By The People And For The People”. Our government for so many years now has forgotten that most important last part of the slogan and I think they do not want to understand what the first part means. Please check out the speeches and letters written by our founders concerning their fears for big corporations. See the laws they enacted to protected but were eroded by the corporate types over the years, especially since the Civil War, with their big money. Their fears are so much more founded today.

            Kim Simmon, can we agree on anything? Can we agree we both love this country and want the best for its citizens even if we see how that is done differently? I do not totally trust any who supposedly “represent” us but I know who I might trust more than others,and those I wouldn’t at all.

          • Kim Simmons

            Actually I believe we are closer then you think. I believe the government is just too big and it does over regulate. We are no longer a government of the people and so far beyond what the founding fathers envisioned. But if this government were to adhere to the Constitution and both houses would do their job, this country would come back stronger then ever. We also would not have this obamacare tax fiasco coming at us at full speed. Same with the idea of a president saying he was going to destroy an industry.
            As we have said this was suppose to be a peoples government, our country was not designed for career politicians. Actual term limits on both houses should be made into law, just as it was put into place on the presidency. I really do not care about the reasons why it was made into a law, I know them, but that one is a good law and should be made universal to all elected officials. But I do disagree about the Supreme Court having limits, they need to be above politics. The only limitation being, if they were to be found to be actively political, they should have to resign. A major problem I know to figure out as well as implement.
            Congress should divest itself away from major corporations with lobbying made illegal, period and any penalty should be far more then a slap on the wrist.
            I firmly believe the Tea Party of today believe in the United States and all of its people, Black, White, Red and Yellow. To be honest those I know in the Tea Party care only about the well being of the United States of America and adhering to smaller government and less spending, there is not one racist thoughts in any of their thinking or bones in their bodies.
            But that is how they are attacked, once again, say anything untrue often enough, it will become a fact people will believe. That is something Obama is very good at, turning lies into facts people will believe. After all Obama is the President, and the people of America need to believe the President but the people are mostly sheep and have no idea how to use that lump between their shoulders.

          • macgyver1948

            Kim Simmons … We just might be closer in what we want for the country even if we are on opposite sides of the aisle.

            Supreme Court Judges need to be above both politics and party. Unfortunately they tend to make decisions all to often based on the party who appointed them and they were appointed by that party because they were aligned with them to begin with, then there might be pay back. A Supreme Court Judge is supposed to determine the Constitutionality of an issue/bill/law and not the politics of it. On the face of it, Chief Justice Thomas, a Republican made the right decision only if he really felt ObamaCare is constitutional. If he didn’t and was just “maneuvering” he was wrong to give the ok to ObamaCare. The other 4 GOP Judges were doing the party thing or they really thought it is unconstitutional but we will never really know. The same with the Dem Judges.

            Help with something you said. When did Obama say he was going to destroy an industry? I read a lot but I know I miss a lot too. I know Obama helped the Auto industry with bail outs and Romney said we should let Detroit die.

            As far as the taxes in ObamaCare goes we will have to see in time how they pan out, we have no choice now. But the real estate taxes do not affect most people. I think you have to make over $500,000 profit when you sell your house, meaning if you bought it for $100,000 and you sell it whenever for more than $600,000 your tax might be 3 ½ % of the profit. I need to read more but so much of those things are sleeping pills. I tried reading the Warren Commission Report back then on the Kennedy assassination and that was a super snooze.

            One of the issues in the Government +Reform Act I have a copy of includes term limits on Congress as it is with the President. I used to think we need experience in office but with all the conflict of interest, between many politicians and Corporate monies – at our expense, I am not so sure any more.

            You said “Congress should divest itself away from major corporations with lobbying made illegal, period and any penalty should be far more then a slap on the wrist”. Wow I agree. Things like major fines on both parties the first time and hearty jail time after that. The connection between the Corporations and Government, Congress and the Administrations alike, has to end or we will.

            You say “I firmly believe the Tea Party of today believe in the United States and all of its people, Black, White, Red and Yellow. To be honest those I know in the Tea Party care only about the well being of the United States of America and adhering to smaller government and less spending, there is not one racist thoughts in any of their thinking or bones in their bodies”.

            Ok, I have some Tea Party friends and I have met others. I too believe many of the followers are, as you say, caring people who love liberty and freedom but some followers have been in the news at meetings as being violent and scary toward a Democratic Senatorial guest and that was provoked by a meeting leader with his silly insults of her and saying she should be hung or something. My concern is with the leadership and creators of the Tea Party. Their agendas are really matters with their huge money. They, as with any leaders, can say anything to get a big following but behind the scenes, with all the people support in front, they do what is best for their real agendas behind. Koch is huge with Tea Party and they should be researched before following them. Their family history scares me more than I will write here. But I will say there are similar tactics used in history to fool many into giving them at the top the power until it was to late.

            The people are mostly sheep and they want to believe their President. We did that with Bush when he fooled us into his immoral wars that have cost us so much and counting since. Obama is a very good speaker. I believe he will romp Romney in debates and Obama does not need a teleprompter nearly as much so many say. We need to hope Obama is as he appears to be and pray to God that mostly right things will be done for us.

            This is nice even with our differences. See what being adult and not calling each other names and not insulting can do?

          • Kim Simmons

            It actually called it bankrupt an industry, the coal industry. To my knowledge Romney did not say let Detroit die. What he said was let them go thru a bankruptcy. That would have removed the Unions from the controls. WHile I know it would have hurt the people, it would shave allowed the companies to come back and redefine the contracts, forcing the Unions. As it was the Unions and Obama’s czars were placed in control of too much. Not a fan of any of that but it might have allowed a serious restart of GM as well as Chrysler instead we have government motors.
            I believe you are correct on some of the taxes. I have never read of any violence that is attributed to the Tea Party at all, in fact much has been made about how well behaved they were, especially after the occupation Wall Street groups did their thing in New York. The Tea Party was exactly the opposite, well behaved and even cleaned up their trash at any event. I have never heard of that comment about the guest. No one to my knowledge has ever given any proof of any violence and with todays cell phones, something like that would have gone viral, big time.
            Because of what has happened to me, I get to spend a lot of time reading news (not my first choice), and I tend to read online what I can from ABC, CBS, NBC, BBC, CNN as well as Fox ( which is not bad as long as you stick with the news and know when they shift to commentary. Especially with in the last year, there are quite a few liberals on Fox.
            Oh I have quite a number of very liberal friends and we always kid each other on politics. Of course they all know not to start anything with me on Obama, as they know I know enough to combat them. But we keep it civil. When I was teaching as an adjunct, I always encouraged my students to vote- it was at a university, so many never took the time and most knew nothing of what was going on. In classes before a vote I would encourage the class, I told them,” I did not care who you voted for ( OK I Lied to their faces) it was the fact that you vote” My class was not a political class at all not even related but before class I would always talk with students who came into class early, it was my way to learn from them as well. What is funny, no one knew where I stood, in fact most of the students thought I was extremely liberal. Mostly because I was driving the first hybrid car that was avaialble and because I misspoke once about believing in a woman’s right to an abortion. Yes you read that correctly. Personally I have always voted no matter where I was in the United States, it was important to me and I always give respect when respect is given back. Once that line is crossed.. well I think you get the idea.

          • needfulthings

            Obama was not converted to a Muslim or Christianity nor should it matter! A young boy doesn’t know enough regardless what eather of his parent(s) wants. You have’ta be sump’n first before you can CONVERT! So YES YOU DID call Obama a “Muslim” Now you go COMPREHEND what you done did wrote !!!!!!

          • Kim Simmons

            Hate to tell you, but born into Islam you are a muslim, you can not inject Christian or Jewish beliefs that at a certain age you must decide. Obama was born into Islam, he was a muslim and supposedly he was converted, that is why so many nut jobs call him a Muslim. But then again, there are so many questions Obama’s people have spent a lot of money to keep the answers from being heard. Why? His books have been found to be fictional, so using his books as any proof he has anything to offer is worthless. Why has he kept his scholastic records hidden, why did it take over 2 years to see a document that is suppose to establish his birth? By the way, a person who is excellent in Illustrator using a printer of that time period on a paper and ink of that time period could easily counterfeit his birth certificate in less then half that time, and acquiring the ink and paper using unlimited resources it is very possible to do. I am not saying that happened, but it is very possible and it could be done so well no one would be the wiser. SO having personal witnesses or proof other then “his” word is needed. He lies and only the gulible will follow someone they know little about.

          • needfulthings

            Hate to tell you, but born into Islam you are a muslim> NOT ! His dad wasn’t even around when he was born , it wasn’t till several years later his dad tried to teach him Islam.

            I see NO LAW in any religion that makes you one of whatever …… NOT TRUE ! Men can not be excepted into the islam untill they can site the whole Koran and that happens around age 16.

            Why has he kept his scholastic records hidden, what does that got to do with anything? I’m happy he’s screwing with your little heads.Where was dubyas military records .. answer Purged by daddy! Where was debya’s transcripts … hidden!

            why did it take over 2 years to see a document that is suppose to establish his birth > He didn’t I seen it in Feb or march of 01 … you people are so goofy!The right was still fighting that 2 months ago, the courts and several states said he was really born in … Oh I forgot now ! grin …. how foolish of you.

            so many questions about Obama > how about Mittens, tax returns, where was he born (Mexico I think) ?

            Anymore lies to pass on ??????

          • Kim Simmons

            No lies, do not need to you have passed them all on with your answer. But then you forgot to mention his mother, had also hooked up with another muslim man and took him to where? Oh yes another country where to get into school you had to be a citizen.
            No lies, just liberal BS that is countered with the truth, but then Obama only uses lies to make up his own truths.
            Why are you so worried about tax forms, if the IRS is ok with what he has been doing, fine, if not how about your buddy the liar in chief call up his other buddy the holder of injustice and press charges against Romney. You see the facts are that Romney has done nothing wrong or illegal, this is all a side show to people stupid enough to fall for Obama’s lies.
            As far as the birth certificate, I could care less, the real truth will come out one day. Just understand with enough resources, which Obama has with Soros’s backing, you can create anything that will pass by any type of inspection. As a people we want to believe Obama because was elected, but in fact we know more about President Washington then we know about Obama, because Obama is hiding something.
            You have done a wonderful job of falling in love with a major first class liar.

          • needfulthings

            Same answer! You are NOT born into it PERIOD !

          • Proud to be a Believer

            Thank you thank you thank you Kim . You expressed my thoughts beautifully.

          • needfulthings

            Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible.
            - Philip Jenkins, author of ‘Jesus Wars’

          • macgyver1948

            Kim Simmons .. There are things in Muslim history that are violent and there are more where many of them were God-loving and tolerate of others, since Mohammad and even before. Mohammad himself, Christians and Jews were very much friendly until Jews and Christians showed they couldn’t agree with Mohammad that he is the “one” from God. Today there are so many Muslims who are just like Jews and Christians when it comes to treating others. We tend to label from what we hear and what is from the criminal element. We hate those who blow up our towers or US Marine Barracks in other countrys and we are scared so we blame them “all” without really thinking. We should remember there are now and throughout history Jews and Christians, even in the good old USA, who have done horrible things. The Witch hunts for examples and the KKK all do horrible things in the name of their version of the Christian God. Should all Christians be blamed for those things too?

            The Muslim word ‘Jihad’ has a meaning and that meaning is not exclusive to just the criminal element in Muslims. It means “holy war” and it has been used often in history by other than Muslims.

            The Crusades in the middle ages was a Jihad by the Church and a slaughter along the way until the Crusaders arrived in the Holy Land. And let’s remember the Church, and their predecessor, The Roman Empire, never morally owned the Holy Land, they were invaders and conquerers and enslavers. The Church has never had a rights to the Holy Land. If anything, the Holy Land belongs to Muslims and Jews morally. Christians can only claim history there, not ownership.

            So Jihad by any name or language is not exclusive to anyone or group but there are so many God loving compassionate people in Christianity, Judaism and and with Muslims.

            By the way, what do you think your Jesus would say about the “hate” many Christians have had in the last 2100 years for Jews and Muslims, all in his name? People cannot claim God or a Jesus and deny the compassion and love both God and your Jesus wanted for all of us. Bigotry will just not work for either God or your Jesus and generalizing hate toward all of a group because a percentage of them is evil just doesn’t cut it with them either. Your bible shows that.

            One more question. Should we hate all Italians because of their MAFIA or maybe because they were formally the UN-holy Roman empire who invaded, conquered, slaughter and enslaved and stole? If we westerners just left the Muslims alone all those years to live and trade as they choose, instead of trying to control or own them, the terrorists of them might not want their Jihad, they might not be terrorists… ..

            You just cannot be the kind who says and acts “Only our ways of believing and being is right for all and you are wrong if you disagree with us”. I have seen so many Christians with that wrong attitude in my life. That is not real tolerance. We all should practice what we preach. I am for The Golden Rule myself and that goes along with my religion.

          • Kim Simmons

            Another example. Obama knows he is lying to the American people. He can not and will not apoligize to Romney. The result is going to be Obama confronting face to face in a debate Romney in which Romney will call Obama a liar to his face with all of the facts on televsion and radio for all the world to see and hear. Two people who will not back down, instead of owning up to the truth Obama will continue to deceive, lie and try to change the subject.
            Nixon, when it was discovered there was a break in, if he had told the truth up front, he would never had to resign. Clinton if he had not lied, would never been impeached. History has shown it is not the crime it was the lie that has caused Presidents their problems.
            Lies are lies simple and dirty, period.
            It was explained clearly why Romney’s name was on the letterhead, he had moved on and a new group was taking over. He had washed his hands of leading that company. But it was in the hands of the lawyers to finish the transfer all nice and legal.
            Obama because the is naive of how business’s are managed does not understand this and his lies only make it worse. He is one very stupid President. He is causing another war, but right here in America, between those that create jobs and those that do not work or just want to get things for free.
            If everyone is a chief, who works? If everyone is working, who is in charge?
            Can we really trust the democrats to run this country when they want to allow illegals into this country just to vote for free stuff, allow unions to dictate to workers they have to be in a union to work? Then remember, it is the democrats who refuse to allow bills to be debated in the Senate. At least in the House every Bill is debated.

          • baldmurph

            We have good ones and we have nasty ones in every group professing whatever faith. Human beings tend to focus on the bad – more exciting! Good news doesn’t sell many newspapers. A couple of centuries ago most of our focus was on Catholics persecuting Protestants, Protestants persecuting Catholics, and different groups of Protestants working each other over. News travelled slower – eastern North America and Western Europe was big enough to generate enough trouble for our attention. The 1500 years of stewing among the different groups of Islam didn’t really have much attention appeal. Now news travels much faster, our attention has more diversion, and there are SO many more nasty people emphasizing small parts of their religious writings to justify whatever acts which seem to result in their own agrandisement. So, yes, a person is good by his own will, but most likely by the influence of his own faith in what is good and proper. And these are the bases for most religious faiths.

        • macgyver1948

          So what are you saying Alondra? Are the the authority on who is and isn’t of God? IS it those who do not agree with you are against God? Yeah, you know what you are talking about – NOT. Right…

          And you speak of those who do not agree with you politically “using one verse or even an half of it out of the contest”. “contest” really? I knew what you meant though. It is funny you saying that because I have heard your kind of Christian taking Hebrew scripture out of context and redefining it to justify something of their purpose. Just because you say so doesn’t make it so that Libs are “mocking God & Jesus Christ”. I for one am very much with God and I am a registered Democrat but I have no use for Jesus. What will your kind continue to make up about that? But the way, even with my non-belief in Jesus I would defend real Christians and their belief in him. Those who respect others as they would want to be respected themselves. It’s a Golden Rule thing and maybe you should know it.

          When people put others down and say they are wrong just because they do not agree “with us” is very much UN-American and all this name calling crap is childish. I bet you do not even know what a rabbi’s main purpose is, or even what the word means, and Jesus was a respected rabbi even in Israel. How could you not know these things if Jesus is your chosen ‘demi-god’?

          You are the kind of person why we in America so much need “Separation OF Church And State” added to the Constitution. Grow up, will you? Do you at all know of what you are accusing Obama of as well as Libs?

          It doesn’t make it so just because you want to believe it.

        • macgyver1948

          By the way Alondra. Your bigotry is showing. Bigotry, however it shows its ugly head, is hate and hate is the opposite of God….

      • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

        Part 2
        Dear ‘Thinking About’, now I would like to educate you about “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”.

        To understand the Jesus’s answer to the provocative Pharisees’ question you have to know the history of Judea & Galilee in the time when they were under Roman Empire occupation.
        This is a big them and needs the deep study, which you, libtards, do not like. But I try by ‘short cut’ to explain to you and to other liberals.

        The GOAL of this Pharisees’ QUESTION WAS TO ENTRAP Jesus. The Pharisees resisted the tax in principle but compromised in practice in order to make life possible under Roman rule.
        But the Jewish ‘political party’ Zealot, whose concern for the national and religious life of the Jewish people, led them into persistent opposition to pagan Rome. They despised even Jews, who sought peace and conciliation with the Roman authorities. The Zealots categorically refused payment of this tax. They regarded this tax as “an introduction to slavery and an insult to the sovereignty of God. Their view was that land of Canaan belonged to God and God gave it to Israel. No other nation had a right to it.

        Rome required that the poll tax be paid with the denarius, a silver coin. But the Zealots never would have this coin in their possession.

        So the Pharisees suspected Jesus of Zealotism and were seeking to publicly EXPOSE HIM AS A TAX RESISTER, a position that would inevitably lead Him to the Zealot death penalty, crucifixion on a cross. Jesus understood that the Pharisees’ question was calculated to be ground for his arrest. (The Pharisees hated Jesus as all leftists hate Him)

        Matthew 22:17-22
        The Pharisees asked Jesus: “Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?”
        18 But Jesus perceived THEIR WICKEDNESS, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites? 19 Show Me the tax money.”
        So they brought Him a denarius. 20 And He said to them, “Whose image and inscription is this?”
        21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”
        And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
        22 When they had heard these words, they marveled, and left Him and went their way.”

        As you can see Jesus did not have His denarius. He asked Pharisees to show Him their denarius.
        ‘Thinking About’, I am sorry to say you, but you are stupid like Pharisees are.

        If you want to educate yourself, read
        “Christ and the Caesars” of the German theologian and NUMISMATIST Ethelbert Stauffer;

        The 1st-century Romano-Jewish historian and hagiographer of priestly and royal ancestry Flavius Josephus’ “The Jewish War” (c. 75) and “Antiquities of the Jews” (c. 94), who recorded Jewish history of the 1st century AD, the Destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70. These works provide valuable insight into 1st century Jewish History, Judaism and the background of Early Christianity.
        Also you can read the jewishencyclopedia.com, of cause if you are not anti-Semite.

        Jesus DID NOT preach REDISTRIBUTION a.k.a. SOCIAL JUSTICE a.k.a. FAIR SHARE. It’s Satan’s gospel, which leftists adapted.

        Jesus preached EQUAL opportunity.

        Read the BIBLE. Gives knowledge & wisdom.
        In God We Trust.

        • needfulthings

          How can anyone Quote the bible? over half is missing, much has been altered to “fix” it and the King James version was altered to reflect what “KING JAMES’ wanted it to say. After all The KING was the highest authority on religion for thee whole plant!

          “PROPERLY READ, THE BIBLE IS THE MOST POTENT FORCE FOR ATHEISM EVER CONCEIVED” …. Asimov

          • baldmurph

            When I was preadult Roman Catholics used the Douay (sp?) version, not King James version. A couple of edits have been made since then to bring the passages into a more contemporary mode as well as new translations of older documents to bring present version into closer alignment with what we think was the original. Problem: we are using translations of copies of older translations etc., and many older documents were rejected centuries ago for various reasons. So, no, we do not have a complete story as we define it here and now, and even what we have may vary between different religious groups. So we read what we have and get the overall message, sans twits and blogs. Enjoy!

          • needfulthings

            When quoting the BIBLE the “KING JAMES” verson is thee MOST often cited verson by religious perverts.

          • Proud to be a Believer

            You know all of you including baldmurph will one day in the very near future know the truth when the believers are zapped out of here and you are “Left Behind” to face the anti-christ. Then you will say, gee whiz, I sure wish that I had paid attention, studied the Bible, and become a believer. You really show your ignorance. The Bible even though it has been copied many times, all copies are exact because Hebrew and Greek are numerical languages so each line has to add up to the correct numbers. One has to take the Bible literally. Not only is it good history as even the archaeologist of today are finding out, the latest with the Red Sea chariots that have been found. We are in the last days and believe me the Rapture will be real and is coming to your city soon. I know, the word “Rapture” is not in the Bible (only in the German Bible by the way) however, the words “caught up” are in the Epistles of Paul.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        needfulthings: Don’t pray in my school, and I will not think in your church.

        What do you mean YOUR, school, mr. deadbeat? You are minority, you should consider yourself fortunate that you have the freedom to express your inane thoughts, much less use them to inflict damage.

        • needfulthings

          Why thank you Jay and I’ll leave you with this>

          “As people become more intelligent they car eless for preachers and more for Teachers”
          Ingersoll

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        needabrain: When quoting the BIBLE the “KING JAMES” verson is thee MOST often cited verson by religious perverts.

        When a pervert like you reads the Bible, the Bible confirms to you that you are a pervert.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        needfulbrain:“ As people become more intelligent they car eless for preachers and more for Teachers”
        Ingersoll

        Define intelligent.

        • macgyver1948

          Jay… You said to needfulbrain:“ As people become more intelligent they car eless for preachers and more for Teachers” Ingersoll Define intelligent”. Well you are using it so I guess you believe it maybe literally.

          I’m trying to understand what yo are saying here since you are very much generalizing and assuming to much of too many people.

          I for one see nothing wrong with listening and learning from both clergy and teachers. In school we need to learn math, the language of our country and maybe other languages if we want, science and history, etc. Try getting a job without an education if corporations choose to offer them. For those of us who believe in God we need to hear and learn about the religion of our choice.

          So that is why I am not sure what you are trying to say with your generalizations and assumption. I feel what you are saying is a matter of individual choice and it shouldn’t be assumed in such general terms.

          Nice rhyme though.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        need-more-education: How can anyone Quote the bible? over half is missing, much has been altered to “fix” it and the King James version was altered to reflect what “KING JAMES’ wanted it to say.

        Such a forceful and compelling assertion requires compelling evidence to support it. Got any?

        need-more-education: After all The KING was the highest authority on religion for thee whole plant!

        Wrong, dumb dumb, the “Pope”, or the “Roman Papacy”, was the highest authority, not only in religious matters, but the highest political-authority, as well, even above Kings or Monarchs!

        need-more-education: “PROPERLY READ, THE BIBLE IS THE MOST POTENT FORCE FOR ATHEISM EVER
        CONCEIVED” …. Asimov

        Isaac Asimov was an atheist, and a humanist. Naturally, his statement is not surprising.

      • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

        Needfulthings, you have to change you name to “NeedFulThinking” or “StopSpreadLeftIgnorance”.

        Part 1
        NFT, You wrote: “How can anyone quote the Bible?”

        Of cause, you leftists/atheists will quote from:
        1. Charles Darwin: “On the Origin of Species” or “The Expression of the Emotions in Man and Animals” in which he tried to explain that GENETICS (???) DETERMINED the aspects of BEHAVIOR. ( My advice: read book “The Darwin Myth: The Life and Lies of Charles Darwin” by Ben Wiker. It’s about how Darwin set out to create a godless version of evolution)

        2. Karl Marx’s “Capital” or “The Communist Manifesto” (My advice: read “Liberty and Tyranny: A Conservative Manifesto” by Mark Levin)

        3. Saul Alinsky’s book “Rules for Radicals”, which he dedicated “to the very first radical – Lucifer”
        Saul D. Alinsky: “Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends…the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom–Lucifer.”

        And your “great leader” Barry the Deceiver taught the Alinsky’s PRINCIPLES & TACTICS to students in the Chicago University.
        All UNION and COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS were taught the Alinsky’s PRINCIPLES & TACTICS.
        “Wickedness proceeds from the wicked.” – (I Samuel 24:13)
        “The Lord shall reward the doer of evil according to his wickedness.” (2Sam.3:39)
        “For out of the heart come/proceed evil thoughts…” (Matt. 15:19)
        “Between good and evil there is no reconciliation.” (Alexander Soljenitsen)
        “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.” & “We have been silent witnesses of evil deeds.” (Dietrich Bonhoeffer)

        (My advice to you: read
        “HOW EVIL WORKS” by David Kupelian;
        The Dr. Lyle Rossiter, Jr., M.D. book “The LIBERAL MIND: The Psychological causes of Political Madness”. It’s about LIBERAL SICK MIND, which is a Form of MENTAL ILLNESS;
        “Culture of Corruption” by Michelle Malkin;
        “Ameritopia: The Unmaking of America” by Mark Levin)

        Part 2
        NFT, you wrote: “over half is missing, much has been altered to “fix” it and the King James version was altered to reflect what “KING JAMES’ wanted it to say. After all The KING was the highest authority on religion for thee whole plant!”

        What an INCREDIBLY STUPID and SATAN-SERVING and deliberately MISLEADING major NONSENSE I ever heard.

        Dear NFT, please care to cite a source to back up your senselessly foolish & duped statement.
        The TRUTH Is:
        The first translation of the Hebrew Bible from Hebrew into Greek was made by the Greek King of Egypt Ptolemy II Philadelphus’ request in the 3rd century BCE (285-246 BCE), who invited the 72 Jewish scholars in Alexandria for the translation of the “Old Testament” and additional Jewish texts. The King wanted to have it for his Library of Alexandria. This translation is known as the Septuagint, or simply “LXX”.
        And guess what, NFT, surprise, surprise for the all leftists: the translation of all 72 scholars were identical.

        Of cause, NFT, for you leftists’ libtards it smell as the “Jewish Conspiracy”. Isn’t?
        Well, I guess I gave you the new “old” them. Continue to develop your distortions of the HISTORICAL FACTS.
        The King James nothing has to do with the Bible’s contents. In 1604 he just requested to translate whole BIBLE into English. That’s it, stupid & ignorant LIBTARD.

        Part 3
        You quoted “PROPERLY READ, THE BIBLE IS THE MOST POTENT FORCE FOR ATHEISM EVER CONCEIVED” …. Asimov

        The TRUTH is:
        Isaac Asimov was an ATHEIST, known for his ‘science fiction’ books. He did not oppose religious conviction in others, but he frequently railed against SUPERSTITIOUS and PSEUDOSCIENTIFIC beliefs. He was free in his believes. Aren’t he?
        But please CONVINCE ME that his believes are right.

        From Wikipedia: “Asimov is widely considered a master of HARD SCIENCE FICTION and, along with Robert A. Heinlein and Arthur C. Clarke, he was considered one of the “Big Three” SCIENCE FICTION writers during his lifetime.[4]”

        NFT, the Webster Dictionary definition of the “FICTION” is: FALSEHOOD a.k.a. FABRICATION a.k.a. LIE a.k.a. UNTRUTH a.k.a. MISREPRESENTATION a.k.a. DECEIT. The anonym to all kind of the FICTION is FACT. Isn’t amazing the TRUTH?

        “Great is TRUTH, and MIGHTY ABOVE ALL things.” (2Ezdra 4:41)

        NFT, the next time WOULD YOU PLEASE CARE TO GIVE US A RELIABLE SOURCE OR LINK TO BACK UP FOR ALL YOUR STUPIDLY FALSE STATEMENTS?

        My advice to you and to all liberals: read
        “Ultimate Proof of Creation” by Jason Lisle;
        “Death of Death in the Death of Christ”;
        “For God or for Tyranny” by Walid Shoebat;
        “Correct, NOT Politically Correct” by Frank Turek and there are many, many more nonfictional books based on the TRUE FACTS and not on the leftists’ FICTIONS: LIEAS, DECEITS, FALSEHOOD,FACTS DISTORTIONS.)

        But please, please, do not come with your lamebrained liberal DEMAGOGICAL NONSENSE. Please DO NOT WASTE your and our time.
        Thank you.
        Proud NATURALIZED American

        • needfulthings

          Go on believe your myths, your faith.
          Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence!

          • Baldmurph

            Actually, faith is belief in the absence of evidence. When we have evidence we can postulate, test, and form theories. These may need to be revised or replaced as our observations and knowledge grow (everything does not revolve around the earth any more – now we have a much more interesting dance). We have faith to satisfy a need to see and understand things that we cannot explain fully at present. Religion can be an organized way to do this. If you do not have this particular need, then go in peace. If you do and have found a faith that comforts you, then go in peace. If you have not, keep looking, treat others decently, and good luck to you.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        macgyver1948 says: By the way Alondra. Your bigotry is showing. Bigotry, however it shows its ugly head, is hate and hate is the opposite of God….

        I read all of Alondra’s posts, macgyver1984, and i don’t read any bigotry in them. Is it because you don’t agree with her metaphysical convictions? If so, then it is you who are the intolerant bigot, not Alondra!

        • macgyver1948

          Jay,,, It was subtle and you just do not see what I see.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        macgyver1948 says: Jay… You said to needfulbrain:“ As people become more intelligent they car eless for preachers and more for Teachers” Ingersoll Define intelligent”. Well you are using it so I guess you believe it maybe literally.

        macgyver1948, your level of intelligence and reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. The above statement was made and posted by needfulthings, dumb dumb…

        The rest of your statement below should have been directed at, needfulthings. However, i noticed that in your remaining statement below you say; I for one see nothing wrong with listening and learning from both clergy and teachers. You should add reading comprehension to the list. Unbelievable!

        I’m trying to understand what yo are saying here since you are very much generalizing and assuming to much of too many people.

        I for one see nothing wrong with listening and learning from both clergy and teachers. In school we need to learn math, the language of our country and maybe other languages if we want, science and history, etc. Try getting a job without an education if corporations choose to offer them. For those of us who believe in God we need to hear and learn about the religion of our choice.

        So that is why I am not sure what you are trying to say with your generalizations and assumption. I feel what you are saying is a matter of individual choice and it shouldn’t be
        assumed in such general terms.

        Nice rhyme though.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        macgyver1948 says: Jay,,, It was subtle and you just do not see what I see.

        macgyver1948,,, it is slender, your intellect, that is, and you do not posses sufficient amount to be engaging in debate. That is what i see…

        • macgyver1948

          Jay…:-)))…

      • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

        Oh, Hello, Dear Macgyver1948, glad to hear from you, lefty.

        This is reply to your post @ 9:56 pm, July 14

        You wrote: “Your bigotry is showing…is hate…” Wrong. What is showing and what you do not like, MacGyver, it’s my knowledge of the Scripture – God’s Word and the TRUE historical, ideological, religious or other FACTS.

        Why LEFTISTS do not like educated people? Because they can’t deceive educated people.

        The libtards, NEVER can win any argument because you are ignorant, Lazy and the facts aren’t on your side, therefore you always lying, deceiving, cheating, threating. If that does not help you, you are following the Satan’s ‘gospel’ using the Alinsky’s PRINCIPLES & TACTICS:
        1) crash the spirit and the character of the conservative/Christian opponents (Sarah Palin, Allen West, Andrew Breitbart, Rush Limbaugh, sheriff Joe Arpaio, Jerome Corsi, Mark Levin, Herman Cain, Michelle Malkin, Joseph Farah and others)

        2) demonize, ridicule, vilify, bully, insult, intimidate, slander, smear, oppress, harass, defame them

        3) lie, deceit; more lie, more deceit; distort & twist the truth

        4) use fact distortions, dirty tricks, scared tactics, race card, fear mongering

        5) label them: homophobe, islamophobe, racist, bigot, hater, extremists and etc.

        6) use mantras and slogans such as “hate speech”, “homosexuals’ rights”, “discrimination”, “fear mongers”, “wright wing conspiracy”;

        And you, MacGyver, labeled me a “bigot” & “hater”. But unsuccessfully. It does not stick to me because “…He that is in me is GREATER, than he that is in the world/you.” (1Jn.4:4)

        MacGyver, you wrote: “…hate is the opposite of God…”

        MacGyver, you are violated the God’s 4th Commandment:

        “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.”

        You nothing know about The God of Bible and you are using His Name. God of the Bible is not liberals/leftists’ god, which they made in their OWN image. So do not preach me your god.

        God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob is God of LOVE, but He hates the sin. God is antagonistic to the sin. God is allergic to sin. God does not tolerate sin, because any sin offends Him.
        Men’s sins are destroying men relationship not only with God, but also break relations between themselves.

        God revealed His values, principals & standards for the human behavior and morality. But the sinners do not want to follow God’s standards. They chose to follow world’s standards and to walk in opposition to God.

        God HATES sin because men’s sins killed His Son.

        MacGyver, if you have any other questions, please feel free to ask me. But please not childishly fool and stupidly sarcastic ones. I will not answer them. I do not want to waste my time. And please do not preach me your liberal gospel. I stick very strong to the Christ’s Gospel.

        Best wishes,
        Alondra – Proud Christian, Proud NATURALIZED American, Proud Birther, Proud Tea bagger, Proud Homophobe & Proud Islamophobe
        In God I Trust.

        • macgyver1948

          Alondra … We each have our own respective beliefs don’t we. If I remember I was deferring to how you generalized Muslims.

          Now you tell me what I do not like. You do not know me so you are not capable but you are so typical of those on the right who assume of others without knowing them. You guys sound like mind readers. Are you since that is the only way you could know what I like or not?

          I do not care if you know your Christian Bible, you should but it is not my bible so I do not accept it as God’s word. Throwing your Scripture at me as proof will not mean anything. Nd for all your name calling that I see so often from the Right, is that Jesus’ way”?

          Yo worte to me “Why LEFTISTS do not like educated people?” Why do you assume it and why aren’t you tired already of being wrong so often as you generalize and assume?

          Your words “ The libtards, NEVER can win any argument because you are ignorant, Lazy and the facts aren’t on your side, therefore you always lying, deceiving, cheating, threating”. LOL. Does it make you feel good to label and insult people so childishly? :-).

          Then you say “ If that does not help you, you are following the Satan’s ‘gospel’ using the Alinsky’s PRINCIPLES & TACTICS: 1) crash the spirit and the character of the conservative/Christian opponents (Sarah Palin, Allen West, Andrew Breitbart, Rush Limbaugh, sheriff Joe Arpaio, Jerome Corsi, Mark Levin, Herman Cain, Michelle Malkin, Joseph Farah and others) 2) demonize, ridicule, vilify, bully, insult, intimidate, slander, smear, oppress, harass, defame them 3) lie, deceit; more lie, more deceit; distort & twist the truth 4) use fact distortions, dirty tricks, scared tactics, race card, fear mongering 5) label them: homophobe, islamophobe, racist, bigot, hater, extremists and etc. 6) use mantras and slogans such as “hate speech”, “homosexuals’ rights”, “discrimination”, “fear mongers”, “wright wing conspiracy”; And you, MacGyver, labeled me a “bigot” & “hater”” . IF these guys are your role models it is no wonder you need psychological help.

          Satin is who fought against my God and was thrown out for his treachery and treason so there again how can you expect me to believe the idiocies that you spit out.

          Remember your bible is your bible and mine, the Hebrew Bible is mine.
          You say “MacGyver, you are violated the God’s 4th Commandment: “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.” .

          First off I will not accept you saying I took the name of the LORD our God in vain, I believe I do not. Next. You say it was the 4th Commandment. Maybe in your bible it is the 4th but in The Hebrew Bible the 4th Command is “Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy”. That is the 10 Commandants God gave to us all through Moses and that is the 4th commandant as it was taught since then and as your Rabbi Jesus taught it. Jesus learned Torah as it was pretty much always taught and the 10 Commandants is part of Torah and always will be to us. By the way, God told us the Sabbath Day is the 7th day of the week, always to us that is Saturday. We go by what God tells us so we haven’t changed it.

          By the way, the second Commandment according to how God said it to us is “Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.” See how singular He is? You believe in the Trinity I believe but we can’t. If I am wrong by assuming you believe in the Trinity I apology. God to us is a single spiritual entity and there are no parts to Him. To each his own faith and that is more reason why you shouldn’t throw your beliefs at someone as all out gospel for all if they do not believe your way. It just doesn’t work.

          You said “God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob is God of LOVE, but He hates the sin”. Good for you, you got that right.

          You said “God HATES sin because men’s sins killed His Son. MacGyver, if you have any other questions, please feel free to ask me”. 

          Ok. How can you expect Jews to believe man killed God’s son when we do not believe Jesus was more than a mortal man with two real life at the time mortal human parents? We do not believe in demi-gods, we believe only in God. See what I mean we have to respect each others faith as we want to have our own respected?

          I have always enjoyed discussing religion with people of different faiths but only as it stays strictly for academic purposes only. One someone gets to the point where they tell me we Jes are wrong and we are going to hell I know there is not sane puprose for the conversation to continue. I wouldn’t do that, I am a believer in The Golden Rule and I respect how you believe for you.

          I am glad you know your bible. I have read two Christians bibles cover to cover, the Catholic and the King James, and parts of others. It’s been a while since my reading in full but I remember a fair amount and I can learn for academic purposes. But, again we each have to be respectful of each other.

      • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

        Jay, thank you for your kind words.

        Reply to NeedFulThings at 8:38, July 14

        You said: “Don’t pray in my school, and I will not think in your church”

        I do not care about your school. But you do not indoctrinate our children with your evil communistic, atheistic & liberal ideology; do not distort American history; do not lie to our children about our Founding Fathers; do not pray on our children and do not advocate for the RADICAL PERVERT SEX EDUCATION at schools, let to parents to choose the school for their child where they could pray.

        You said: “Islam isn’t anymore evil than Christianity!”

        Lie!!! Pure LEFTISTS’ LIE = Satan’s LIE. You are spreading Satan’s gospel.
        Why? Because you, LEFTISTS/communists/progressives/liberals/DEMONcrats,

        “You are of your father the DEVIL, and the DESIRES OF YOUR FATHER YOU WANT TO DO. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does NOT STAND IN THE TRUTH, because THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM. When he speaks a LIE, he speaks from his own resources, for HE IS A LIAR AND THE FATHER OF IT.” (John 8:44)

        Satan/Devil on Greek it means accuser or adversary, who makes obstacles for all goods. He isn’t a gentleman, he does not play by the rules. He works in secret, because he hates to be definite and exposed. He doesn’t want people know he exist. (Gen.3:1-6)

        Satan with his legion of the demons, such as libtards, leads attacks on the God’s people/believers. His power is in his LIES, DECEITS, MISREPRESENTATIONS, DISTORTIONS. But guess what! Less and less people fall into your evil propaganda.
        You are preaching one way “TOLERANCE” – tolerance for thee but not for me.

        As a matter of fact God did not create religions. PEOPLE DID, because they wanted to make their gods IN THEIR OWN IMAGE. God just revealed Himself thru His chosen people.
        “For I have created him (Israel) for my glory, I have formed him; I have made him…Therefore YOU ARE MY WITNESSES, declares the Lord, that I am GOD…I am the Lord, your Holy One, the CREATOR OF ISRAEL, your King.” (Is.43:10-11) “…and my servant, whom I HAVE CHOSEN, that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. (Isaiah 65:15, 16)

        God formed/created/designed/choose Jew people not because they are especial/ extraordinary or exclusive, but with one purpose: to be His WITNESSES and spread knowledge about His existence.

        But the good news is that Christians, and only REAL Christians are adopted by God as sons thru Jesus Christ (Eph.1:4-8)

        “6 And because YOU ARE SONS, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a SON, and IF A SON, THEN AN HEIR of[b] God through Christ.” (Gal.4-7; Rom.8:15)

        “God has from beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF OF THE TRUTH.” (2Thes.2:13)

        “For many be called, but few chosen.” (Mt.20:16; 22:14; Lk.14:24)

        “I HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE WORLD, THEREFORE THE WORLD HATES YOU” (JN.15:19)

        I am sorry for you that you are spiritually blind and deaf. For you better to be mute, than you would not spew your hatred ignorance.

        NeedFulThings, see you THERE in your DAY.

        Alondra, PROUD follower of Christ and PROUD Naturalized American

        • needfulthings

          Religion is an insult to human dignity.
          With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion!
          s. weinberg

          • Baldmurph

            Like it or not, we are too many to manage all our affairs and all our relationships with everyone else. So we have governments. And civil laws. We also need authorities to remind us of what is right and just, not just legal. And so we have churches. And more religious laws/rules. And we do it because it helps us to operate better. Would you prefer your government to tell you what is right and just, proper and worthy of admiration? Vox populi vox Dei? Good luck with that!

          • needfulthings

            Would you prefer your government to tell you what is right and just >> Well NO, but thats what the right and religion wants.

            Religion has alot of explaining to do for its sins, I do bristle when someone brings it up because it;s too private to discuse in public. If anything in ones life should be kept private it would religion, next would be public sex with your better half.

          • baldmurph

            The difference being that with religion you can follow the dictates of YOUR conscience and change churches if you wish (unless you are in a place where state and church are tied into an unholy knot), whereas the state can compel compliance or punishment by force. Hence separation of church and state, theoretically, in this country.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        For two decades, liberal wordsmiths have been distorting the English language to deceive and manipulate Americans. So why do liberals find it necessary to distort the English language to deceive and manipulate?

        The answer is simple: because many liberal beliefs, practices, and policies are reprehensible to the American public. If these beliefs, practices, and policies were called what they really are, Americans would rise up and reject them.

        One of the best examples of how liberals distort the English language to deceive can be found in what they call themselves: “progressives.” If the American left is progressive, then what is progress?

        Is bankrupting the American economy progress?
        Is using government entitlements to garner political support progress?
        Is encouraging an entitlement mentality progress?
        Is promoting a victim mentality progress?
        Is perpetuating racial strife progress?
        Is transforming America’s public schools and colleges into leftist indoctrination centers progress?

        If these things are considered progress, then the left is certainly progressive. But if these are seen for what they really are, the left should stop calling itself progressive and start calling itself destructive.

        For another example of how the left distorts the English language to deceive and manipulate Americans, consider the term abortion.

        Abortion conjures up images that liberals want to avoid at all costs, images of unborn children being brutally torn apart in their mothers’ wombs. Not an image most people, including liberals, would want to be associated with. Consequently, liberal wordsmiths went looking for a different term, a term that would conjure up positive images.

        In the process, abortion became choice, a term that not only distorts what actually happens during an abortion, but turns the discussion away from killing babies to supporting women’s rights. The new term was well chosen, particularly if your purpose is to deceive. After all, most people want to be in control of their lives, to be able to make choices. Liberals want abortion to be about a woman’s right to choose, but they don’t want to talk about what that choice really means, nor do they want to admit that the unborn child has no say in the choice.

        Another example of how liberals distort the English language to deceive and manipulate can be seen in their use of the term gay instead of homosexual.

        The word homosexual conjures up an image of sodomy, not a pleasant image. But the term gay is different. It is synonymous with pleasant sounding terms such as happy, joyful, cheerful, and glad. The fact that homosexuality is sodomy is not changed by giving it a nicer sounding name. But liberals understand that if you tell a lie often enough for long enough, people will come to accept it. This is exactly what is happening in America today with regard to homosexuality.

        A practice that was once considered so reprehensible to American society that its proponents had to stay in the closet is now widely accepted. In fact, homosexuals have made substantial inroads during the Obama administration. They may now openly display their sexual preferences while serving in the military and, in a growing number of instances, may even marry.

        To see just how successful the left has been in distorting the English language to manipulate public opinion on this issue, just ask yourself this question: When was the last time you heard a journalist use the term “homosexual”?

        In fact, when was the last time you heard anyone use the term? Rather, the term “gay” has gained almost universal acceptance. Even those who oppose homosexuality typically use the term “gay.”

        Adopting the very terms used to manipulate you, is a sure sign that the other side is winning the battle.

        In other words, when conservatives allow liberals to dictate the words that will be used to describe controversial socio-cultural practices such as homosexuality, they are ceding ground on an important battlefield in America’s culture war.

        Words have meaning. As such they can be either useful tools or powerful weapons.

        The left has chosen to use them as weapons, and they are wielding these weapons with great effect. But there remains one inescapable fact the left cannot overcome in waging a culture war against conservative and Christian principles.

        If liberals cannot call the practices they favour by their real names, they are making a tacit admission that these practices are wrong. If these practices were right, liberals would be proud of them and would call them what they really are.

        http://patriotupdate.com/articles/how-liberals-distort-the-english-language-to-deceive-and-manipulate

        • Proud to be a Believer

          Thanks Jay. I have copied your response to send to all my email group as I have never seen such a wonderful explanation of what a liberal is. The just don’t want to know the truth. They want to live in their own little world which is fine, but most truthful persons don’t want to live there or be forced to live there. The government shouldn’t even be involved in those areas and should stick to what they are commissioned to do and that is basically taking care of the security of the USA and nothing else. They don’t even do a good job of that and then they want more authority when they can[t take care of what they already have. Unbelievable. But Jay, that is what happens when GOD is taken out of the equation, say what you want, but that is the truth. Look at the morals of today, it is disgusting absolutely. No one is responsible for anything. It was so funny about everyone hopping on the bank wagon on no smoking here or there or here or there however, you can be an alcoholic or drug addict or have HIV because of your sexual preference and that is perfectly ok. I guess I have lived too long and have too many memory tapes of when the USA was great. Time to move on.

        • Baldmurph

          Logical.

          • needfulthings

            The republicrats been doing it since ronnie star wars ray-gun, I find very few examples of that on the right ( there should be) but we don’t grab a word and alter the meaning(s) to the point that a word conjures up another word or phrase. It’s quite the art form and most of you repeat it without knowing where its comes from. It’s like being a puppet for the extremely intelligent but do dispair very few understand it.
            a small part of what I mean follows >>
            Conservative social orders have often described themselves as civilized, and so one reads in the Wall Street Journal that “the enemies of civilization hate bow ties”. But what conservatism calls civilization is little but the domination of an aristocracy. Every aspect of social life is subordinated to this goal. That is not civilization.

            The reality is quite the opposite. To impose its order on society, conservatism must destroy civilization. In particular conservatism must destroy conscience, democracy, reason, and language.

            or, closer to home for you>>>>>

            Some conservative rhetors have taken to literally demonizing the very notion of a democratic opposition. Rush Limbaugh has argued at length that Tom Daschle resembles Satan simply because he opposes George Bush’s policies. Ever since then, Limbaugh has regularly identified Daschle as “el diablo”. This is the emotional heart of conservatism: the notion that the conservative order is ordained by God and that anyone and anything that opposes the conservative order is infinitely evil.

            another piece you might recognise?

            A simple example of turning language into a weapon might be the word “predictable”, which has become a synonym for “liberal”. There is no rational argument in this usage. Every such use of “predictable” can be refuted simply by substituting the word “consistent”. It is simply invective.

    • SJJolly

      A reality note here: Unregulated free-market capitalism is also not reality-based. As shown in the recent subprime mortgage melt-down, greed, leading to massive fraud, will collapse the economy if not blocked by either organizational ethics or government regulation.

      In sum, Bob Livingston’s argument is that hiding money from the taxman in offshore bank accounts is O.K. (though illegal) because the government is a bunch of greedy SOB’s? Is there much that can’t be justified using that logic?

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear SJJolly,

        You write: “In sum, Bob Livingston’s argument is that hiding money from the taxman in offshore bank accounts is O.K. (though illegal) because the government is a bunch of greedy SOB’s?” Yes. “Hiding,” or what reasonable people call investing, money from the taxman in offshore accounts is ok. I have not advocated using illegal methods of “hiding” money offshore, nor is there any indication that Romney has done anything illegal. A Swiss annuity is a perfectly legal method of getting some wealth out of U.S. fiat currency, as is placing money in offshore accounts as long as it is reported to the IRS. And yes, the government is a bunch of greedy SOBs and they are stealing from you daily, even if you’re not smart enough to realize it.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • Jon

        There are legal ways to shelter a lot of your money from the IRS. I think it is likely that Romney generally, if not always, follows the legal paths (if he cheated on taxes, he would be on Obama’s cabinet, not running against him). Besides the morality of being honest, it is also good business. By learning more about how the tax system works, I have found ways to legally shift my piddling retirement around to avoid some taxes. The tax code is written to encourage certain types of investment and earnings. Anyone can do it, although I must admit that the more money you have, the easier it is.

      • Kim Simmons

        SJ, you might want to check your facts. the mortgage melt down was caused by ordering banks to give loans to people who had no hope of ever paying back the note. The party who made these rules and regulations was none other then the democrats. It was Bush upon coming into office who tried to make changes but was rebuffed by Congress. You see if you can give away the store to those that have little you can lie to them anytime you want and you will succeed. In case you have not noticed, they have lied but they just lie more and blame everyone but themselves.
        There was a government program that enabled people to purchase a house, but there were strict limits as to how much the house could cost and how large the house could be.
        Unfortunately once the progressive democrats got ahold of it, they destroyed it and the housing market.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        So you are admitting that you want the government to be the one to “regulate” free market capitalism. But then it it would no longer be free market capitalism.
        Free market capitalism means that you take whatever good and whatever bad comes along. You are the one responsible for yourself how much risk you are willing to take and that includes failure.

      • Flashy

        Kim —> “SJ, you might want to check your facts. the mortgage melt down was caused by ordering banks to give loans to people who had no hope of ever paying back the note. The party who made these rules and regulations was none other then the democrats.”

        Ummmmm…just what program or ‘order” are you referring to? Since tehre wasn’t any, you may want to reword your untruisms.

        No one ever held a gun to any bank saying “you must lend this mortgage”. Unless you are referring to the institutional investors who demanded more and more profits even though it was apparent to many the melt down was a comin’. If you refer to the Community Reinvestment Act…I would suggest you research the point further as you are very very wrong.

        The mortgage meltdown was greed run amok and allowed because of deregulation accompanied by massive decreases in the number of regulators. With the lesser rules, there was no one available to check that even the minimal rules were adhered to. Had Glass Steagal remained in effect, the mortgage fiasco would never have occurred.

      • Opal the Gem

        “…you might want to check your facts. the mortgage melt down was caused by ordering banks to give loans to people who had no hope of ever paying back the note. The party who made these rules and regulations was none other then the democrats.”

        Flushy that has been proven many times by many different people. Mr. Livingston has shown it to be true as well as many other posters here. Thomas Sowell has proven it to be true along with other economists. So, you might want to ‘check YOUR facts’.

      • JeffH

        Opal, you know Falsy don’t need no stinkin’ facts…he’s got(LMAO) factcheck!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        JeffH: Opal, you know Falsy don’t need no stinkin’ facts…he’s got(LMAO) welfare-check!

      • JUKEBOX

        Do you realize how many prominent Democrats are doing the same thing as Romney? Let’s begin with Nancy Pelosi, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, and a myriad of other duplicitous liberals who fail to look in the mirror when they start making charges of corruption and greed.

    • Ted Crawford

      Good analogy reelman ! The one I’ve liked best, over the years is
      ” Son never try to teach a pig to sing! It wastes your time and it irritates the pig !”

    • Debra C.

      How is it “patriotic” to put your American-earned money in foreign banks to keep from having to pay your fair share to support the government and people that were instrumental in your earning that huge amount of money in the first place? It’s nothing but a giant scam that needs to be ended. If you or your company live here, work here, make your money using our resources, then be a RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN and PROVE YOU “LOVE” AMERICA . . . pay your share of taxes!!

      • Xavier

        My dear Debra,

        Let me ask you….what car do you drive? What clothes do you wear? What shoes do you wear? Have you lost any weight lately?

        Just asking…

      • Proud to be a Believer

        Debra this just shows your ignorance. As an American Citizen no matter where your money is earned, here or abroad, you have to pay taxes on it, period paragraph. One of the advantages to having an offshore account is that you have money outside of the US just in case you have to vacate, number 1 (you are only allowed to take 10,000,00 out of the US), No. 2 most of the banks are well structured and well healed and pay alot more interest that you can get with a CD in the US, plus foreign annuities pay much more. But never never forget you still have to pay taxes. The UK and USA are the only 2 countries in the world that demand you pay taxes on earnings no matter where. So before you spout off on a subject you don’t understand or don’t have a clue of the real world, educate yourself.

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Debra C.

        You write: “If you or your company live here, work here, make your money using our resources, then be a RESPONSIBLE CITIZEN and PROVE YOU “LOVE” AMERICA . . . pay your share of taxes!!” You have much to learn about the true nature of taxation. http://personalliberty.com/2012/02/06/the-wrong-conversation-about-taxes/

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • JeffH

        Debra says “How is it “patriotic” to put your American-earned money in foreign banks to keep from having to pay your fair share to support the government and people that were instrumental in your earning that huge amount of money in the first place?”

        You’ve got the talking points down…pay your “fair share”???? My, my how you have been swallowed up in the Marxist/communist/progessive propaganda machine…or should I say “POLLY WANT A CRACKER?” baaarrraaaccckkkk!

      • Wil

        Debra-would you happen to be one of the 40% that pays no taxes yet still shills for the redistribution of everyone else’s wealth?

        • macgyver1948

          Wil… I think Debra C asks a very righteous and fair question and you do not have “to be one of the 40% that pays no taxes yet still shills for the redistribution of everyone else’s wealth?” as you side’s questions so arrogantly assumes.
          We should have know for years but now even more so since Warren Buffet announced he and other very wealthy pay less taxes than their secretaries or whom ever. I would like to know the answer to Debra C’s question and I pay taxes ad my bills, on time I might add.
          The very wealthy can afford to pay for fantastic tax, and other financial, advice that the vast majority cannot afford. So those very wealthy can afford to pay less than we do if they choose to.

          We will see if Romney pays his fair share if he would show may several years worth of tax, instead of only one which was do so from heavy public pressure. Romney’s dad ran for President in 1968 and he offered up 12 years worth and from then all dems and repubs offered up several years worth. That is until Mitt so what is he hiding? Maybe Mitt is hiding how many years he controlled and benefited from Bain. He says one year but records suggest later even maybe conflicting with his running the Olympics. Was it more than he claims to hide income from there and also to hide how many Mitt (Bain) really killed. Wee do know he outsourced many jobs as Governor.

          So we do not have to be “of the 40% that pays no taxes yet still shills for the redistribution of everyone else’s wealth” to want to know. We just need to be concerned American citizens. I will be a scared tax paying American if Romney wins. If you aren’t very wealthy or a big corporation you too should be scared of Mitt. If you do not like Obama vote for one of the other party guys.

      • JeffH

        macgyver1948, give me a break…you’re the arrogant shill here. Once you mentioned “fair share” you gave yourself up.

      • phideaux

        macgyver1948 there is absolutely nothing other than HIS greed preventing Warren Buffet (or anyone else who say they do not pay enough in taxes) from paying more. they can either not take all their deductions or they can make a special contribution to either the general fund or to the reduction of the nation debt or both. Since I see no line forming of people trying to pay more in taxes I rightly conclude they are good at talking about it but do not really want to do it.

      • Gordon

        The envious and covetous are usually they who have little money or perceive themselves to have less than they “deserve”. Ecclesiastes 10:19 states that ” money answereth all things”, which seems in context to mean that any situation can be improved if you have enough money to throw at it.

    • macgyver1948

      reelman1946 … I read your comment and all is see is insults for your other side but you really do not say what that other side is. I do not know you so I cannot tell but I know I and my side are not of your insults. So, it could be either side you are insulting but many on my side do not substitute only insults for intelligent retort.

    • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

      Dear Reelman, unfortunately socialism is not Utopia, it’s REALITY, which is based on the theft, but the leftists are very ‘clever’; they do not want to call it theft, so they renamed it into the “REDISTRIBUTION” or, the “great leader” calls it “The Fair Share”.
      In God we Trust.
      Proud Naturalized American & Proud Tea bagger.

      • baldmurph

        Buffet, Romney, and Obama all played the game by the rules as written. Obama appears to be making/changing/ignoring rules as he goes, now. Buffet and Romney continue to play the game as written: if you can’t make money here and can’t adapt local conditions to permit being able to sell at a profit, shut down and move. We have seen what unwise choices did to the housing market and the rest of the economy: we don’t need more of that. Christians appear to have started out as communists (note lower case “c”); but Paul noticed an increase in freeloaders appearing at meal times, all take out, no put in. They ate and sat and (presumably) waited for the world to end. So Paul gave us a new rule: “If you do not work, neither shall you eat!” I’m sure someone can correct me to precise wording and location. So state operated charity has a much greater growth potential than private and individual – - forcing industry at a loss can’t run forever, although the people running the show can do very well for a while. We looks at our options this November and we takes our choices, and hope we evaluated well and not depend on the luck of the Irish (which my father was fond of saying was of great quantity, and all of it bad!).

    • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

      ATTENTION to all, who is interested to learn more TRUTH about CRIMINAL FRAUD:

      On July 17 (TOMORROW) Sheriff Joe Arpaio will held a press conference at 2:30 p.m. local time at the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office in Phoenix, Ariz. (Share this information with all you can)

      WND says: “The evidence will include information gathered in the posse’s recent investigative trip to Hawaii as well as an update on the ongoing investigation. WND reported last month that a letter from Hawaii’s Department of Health verifying Obama’s birth in Honolulu has “opened the door” to some “shocking revelations” the posse is promising to disclose.

      Among the details leaked early by Cold Case Posse lead investigator Mike Zullo: There are allegedly several stamps bearing Registrar Alvin Onaka’s name “floating around” inside the Hawaii Department of Health.

      “I can’t disclose to you what we’ve discovered, but it’s going to be a shocking revelation at our press conference,” Zullo told Tea Party Power Hour host Mark Gillar in a telephone interview from Hawaii.”

      SPREAD this information. It will be on the WND TV

  • Rasta

    The truth hurts. Most Americans cannot protect their assets in off shore accounts.It’s just more proof that Romney is out of touch with mainstream America. If we could all not pay our taxes, how great it would be. Right? Wrong!

    • Doc Sarvis

      You are correct. This is an example of if you are rich enough you can take advantage of the system (devised by and for the rich) to accumulate more financial resources; and thus continue to concentrate (redistribute) the wealth to the very highest earners. Money becomes more money. The rest of us are sold the lie that the wealthy will create more jobs for us – ha!

      • http://www.facebook.com/CoachKaterina Katerina Gasset

        @Don Sarvis- Really? Have you ever bought a lottery ticket? How many non-rich people do you know buy lottery tickets? If being rich is so awful why are so many people wishing they were rich? I don’t get your thinking at all. What is wrong with being rich? Do you teach your children not to become all they can be, to go after the American dream, that they can become wealthy if that is their true desire? I don’t know what planet you are living on but I don’t know any one who gets a paycheck from a poor person. Of course wealthy people create jobs. Just the sole fact that they spend more money to purchase goods that others produce creates jobs. Not only that, Mitt Romney pays 10% tithing, and last year alone he gave 19% of his income to charity that actually helps poor people. The more he gets to keep, the more he gets to give. He worked as governor without pay, he worked for the Olympics full time for 4 years without pay, he gave his father’s inheritance to charity. That is what wealth can do. Each and every one of can do this also. You have just been indoctrinated that you can not acquire wealth.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Katerina Gasset
        I am not against being rich. I am against the rich writing the rules in favor of the rich to become even more rich. This concentrates the wealth to the very few while making financial resources scarce to the hard working masses.
        You use Mitt Romney as your standard of the rich. Good choice. The top 1% could give half their money away and never even feel it. They could still live high off the hog just on the interest their money earns. Romney’s 10 – 19 % charity you cite is a drop in his financial bucket AND he gets further tax breakes for those contributions (again the rules written to benefit the wealthy).
        Romney’s and other’s job creation has been impressive – ON Foreign Soil; which they have received financial breaks on as well (shipping jobs overseas). The myth that the very wealthy produce jobs at a scale proportional to their money is tired, old and disproven. We continue to believe it because it makes logical sense but with so much wealth concentrated in the top 1% we are seeing VERY little job growth. The top 1% has benefitted greatly over the last 10 years and we have seen low employment.
        When the middle and upper-middle class has fianancial resources THAT is when meaningful job growth occurs. In that scenerio, money is spread out more evenly across the country and circulates to and from the workers – the vast majority of Americans.

      • Vigilant

        Sarvis says, “The rest of us are sold the lie that the wealthy will create more jobs for us – ha!”

        And who but the wealthy can create jobs, smartass?

      • jeepman1

        And, I suppose the 50% that collect a paycheck from the government are NOT taking advantage of the system? It occurs to me that they are really taking advantage. Heck the paycheck collectors are even worse than Romney. At least Romney had to earn his paycheck. Kudos for Romney! And, before you reply with some inane comment…consider this, have you ever used any of the tax credits allowed under the tax code when you filed? I don’t even have to guess, the answer is a resounding yes. So, you are in good company when it comes to “taking advantage of the system”.

      • Vigilant

        Sarvis compounds his muddled thinking with “The myth that the very wealthy produce jobs at a scale proportional to their money is tired, old and disproven.”

        (1) What myth? I’ve never heard it. I suspect no one has ever heard that myth. It’s a figment of Sarvis’ fevered imagination.

        (2) What sort of socialist rule are you appealing to? Proportionality has NOTHING to do with what the wealthy choose to do with their money. I don’t give a damn whether they give it all to charity, or blow it all on the horses and fast women. Nor should you or anyone.

      • Vigilant

        Sarvis again: “The top 1% could give half their money away and never even feel it. They could still live high off the hog just on the interest their money earns.”

        AND….? This from a man who says he doesn’t hate the rich! Admit it, Sarvis, you’re a wealth redistribution socialist from the word “go.”

        Get this and get it good: the wealthy are entitled to their gains if it was gathered within the law. What they choose to do with it is their business. Neither you nor any social engineer has the right to deprive by force the Natural Law right to property.

      • Patriot

        Very rarely do I respond to pure idiocy, but, I cannot help it. When was the last time you worked for a poor person? The reason some people are poor, is because they suck at life and are not willingly to sacrifice what is necessary to become great at what they do! You and your ilk breed the laziest, ungrateful people in the world. Soon, when the money runs out and it will, you will be wondering which person will help you, let me give you a clue it will not be folks like you! It will be people that are mentally tough that will work as they have always done and will produce for the betterment of the society. Please understand your past so you can, at the very least, help yourself!

      • JeffH

        Doc & Rasta, sheesh!

        Talk about class envy…you guys are so sucked up into the Marxist/communist/progressive propaganda you just not worth the effort to attempt to steer you away from the trough.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Patriot, you amuse me.
        Please tell me wher I ever said the poor are in a position to give me a job.
        It was good of you to point out that the reason SOME people are poor is due to their lack of life skills. The majority of the poor are very willing to work yet work has been very hard to find. This is true ESPECIALLY due to the situation I describe in the first paragraph of my second post above.
        As for my situation; I have ALWAYS worked (and worked hard) to provide for my family. I’ve Never been on welfare, Medicaid/Medicare, food stamps, etc. I understand MY past FAR better than you ever will.

        Vigilant,
        You point out my statement about the top 1% giving half of their money away and not feeling it. Do you dispute that? It certainly does not indicate that I hate the rich. What I am against is that those who have benefitted the most from all that our country has to offer are rigging the rules to benefit themselves even more at the expense of the hard working masses.
        You also ask earlier who but the wealthy can create jobs when just above your post I explain it to you; “When the middle and upper-middle class has fianancial resources THAT is when meaningful job growth occurs. In that scenerio, money is spread out more evenly across the country and circulates to and from the workers – the vast majority of Americans.”
        You might want to read a bit of what you are responding to prior to responding.

      • Gordon

        Isn’t whjat is really being said that most people are unhappy with themselves knowing that they willfully wasted opportunities years ago so that today they would have more money? Coulda, shoulda, woulda, still means didn’t, doesn’t it?

    • Bev

      Before you start slinging mud you might want to check the off-shore accounts of your beloved democrats. Nancy Pelosi (Pelosi means whackadoodle in Italian) also has some of her wealth in off-shore accounts. Get over it. Romney is a smart man unlike the thing that currently sits in the White House and wastes taxpayers money like there is no tomorrow. You need to face the fact that this thing has done nothing for this country in almost four years except promise stuff that he has yet to deliver on. Talk, talk, talk that’s all he does. And without a teleprompter it’s always uh..uh..uh..uh.. like he can’t have one coherent thought.

      • Centurion

        Actually, Pelosi means “Hairy” in Italian. That’s nearly as funny as it brings to mind a werewolf.

      • Steve E

        And big mouth Debbie Wasserman Schultz who was scorning Romney for have offshore accounts also owns stock in Swiss banks.

      • DavidL

        The issue is full disclosure, not owning the accounts. Nancy Pelosi made millions through foreign investments. How do we know this? She discloses them on her tax returns. Romney has disclosed nothing. When asked what he is hiding, he gives the New Version of blind trusts. This latest version of Romney stands, once again, in marked contrast to the 1994 version of Romney………We all know what he’s hiding and lying about. It’s just a matter of time………….

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXoNbB9J-Fk

        I was wrong when I said Romney is a chameleon and a wuss. He’s not. He’s a chameleon and a wuss on steroids.

      • ROSINA

        Pelosi means hairy. If you do not know Italian you can find translations in Google
        I call her ‘lousy pelousy’ just a play on her name.

      • JeffH

        DavidL, you’ve lost any credibility you may have never had by supporting “Nazi” Pelosi.

      • http://www.gnld-neolife.com Kerry

        DavidL — Posting that YouTube video only proves that you don’t know what a blind trust is.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        DavidL: The issue is full disclosure, not owning the accounts. Nancy Pelosi made millions through foreign investments. How do we know this? She discloses them on her tax returns. Obama has disclosed nothing. When asked what he is hiding, he passes all kinds of executive-orders, and tells us to just take his word for it. This latest version of Obama stands, once again, in marked contrast to the 2008 version of Obama………We all know what he’s hiding and lying about. It’s just a matter of time………….

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft_Mb-4nXJk

        I was wrong when I said Obama is a chameleon and a wuss. He’s not. He’s a chameleon and a wuss on steroids!!!!

        • needfulthings

          Where do ya get that President Obama has released NOTHING ?, Only 11 years of his tax returns, lets see Romney release 11 years of nothing!
          Gawd you who listen to rush limpballs and fixed noise entertainment are so “CORN-FUSSED”

          • macgyver1948

            needfulthings… This isn’t for you but I like your response to Jay… Hay Jay, what do ya say? Oh yeah, we know what you say. It isn’t Obama who isn’t disclosing. We know about Nancy Pelosi’s returns because she isn’t hiding. Obama has disclosed many years worth because he isn’t hiding either. So who is the “hiding one”?

            I posted this before on a few sites but I will just for you again. (ask who is the one who is hiding?)
            —-
            Point one. Who was the first presidential candidate to offer up his tax returns voluntarily, which happened to be around 12 years worth?

            Point two. Who is the only presidential candidate since that first one, from “Point one”, to fight making public his returns and only after great public pressure did he offer up only one year’s worth? WHY all the others since that first one, offering theirs freely, and not this guy?

            Let’s see if you have guessed who those 2 are in both points.

            Point one answer: It was George Romney, Mitt’s father.

            George Romney released 12 years worth of tax returns to the American people when he ran for president (1968). Since then, presidential candidates — Republicans and Democrats — have followed his lead and released multiple tax records for public scrutiny.

            All presidential candidates, except one.

            Point two answer (and why?): Mitt Romney has released only one year of records after persistent public pressure. It raises the question: What does Mitt have to hide?

            Voters deserve to know. Yeah, we do but why does he hide from us?
            Could this explain one of the reasons why Mitt is so not ‘taxreturn’ complying.

            “New questions about when Romney officially left Bain Capital”.

            Maybe it is just not the “Bain” thing to do. :-)

          • needfulthings

            You are RIGHT ON !!! and I did know the answer to all those questions before I got to the end. On one hand I don’t mind where you make your money at but at lease admit you DIDN’T EARN it all, YOU bought politicians and they changed, the laws in YOUR favor! Never ever should we elect a president that doesn’t trust or believe in America NEVER !!!!!!!!! If I took a job overseas I’d still have’ta pay taxes, The rich have increase their weallth some 1200 % over the last 10 years, the middle class has not even keeping even with COLA. The right believes in WELFARE ALRIGHT , Corporations and the Wealthy for some reason the right wing middle class seems to have the “PENNIS ENVY’ ?? it’s like their gonna make it big someday… They just donn’t get it ?????

          • macgyver1948

            needfulthings … As you might agree. Public office means the “representative” works for “We The People”. And as his/her employer we have to right to know all about whomever represents us, from before the “hiring”. Romney is creating so many doubts with his fighting tax return disclosure. From there, doubt can lead to not trusting. How a candidate or already elected handles his life goes to trust. We need to know if Romney is trustworthy and his silence, well his fighting it, in this matter is making us wonder. We should already see he works for the Koch-like so he should not add more to the doubt.

            Here is an interesting email I received today… Enjoy.

            Breaking from Newsmax.com

            Clinton: Romney Hesitation on Tax Filings ‘Odd’

            WASHINGTON — Former President Bill Clinton says Mitt Romney’s financial record is a matter of legitimate campaign scrutiny because he’s been selling himself as a fix-it man on the economy.

            Clinton tells NBC’s “Today” show Romney’s hesitation to release all of his tax returns “struck me as a little odd.” Romney has released a full tax filing only for 2010.

            “I am a little surprised he only released a year’s worth of tax returns. That kind of perplexed me, because this is the first time in, I don’t know, more than 30 years that anybody running for president has only done that. You know, it’s typical we all release 10, 11 years; I think Senator McCain released over 20 years of tax returns.”

            Clinton says Romney’s record as the head of private equity firm Bain Capital is fair game and says taking a microscopic look at Romney’s finances is “just as relevant as going over my record as governor when I ran for president.”

            He says voters “ought to make up their own mind” whether they support someone who apparently sought to minimize his federal tax liability by parking large sums of money overseas.

            © 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Taxes, taxes, taxes… Who paid and who didn’t pay his/her taxes? Do people pay enough, or not enough taxes? Who cheated on their taxes, and who didn’t cheat on their taxes, seems to be an obsession with the socialist/progressive/liberals.

        “Keep your noses out of peoples bedrooms and women’s wombs”; they cry, “and why are you constantly snooping into the current potus’ background”; they righteously demand. But they have no qualms snooping into peoples income acquired, like dung-beetles foraging into a fresh-pile of excrement.

        When Bush, the younger, occupied the hill, many liberals resented where their tax dollars were going; to pay the salary of a president that most of them never voted for; who, as many of them saw it, did not justifiably win his first and/or second election; who had waged a war most of them did not like; who had the power to divert money from the Treasury from projects they liked, or with which they were somewhat comfortable with programs they resented or outright deplored. Many liberals found filing their tax forms especially objectionable, during the reign of Bush, due to the residual tensions from the election previous to that.

        Conservatives had probably far less objections to paying their taxes that year than they did under Clinton, because, whatever the details of policy involved, conservatives tend to approve Republican rule, on balance, as a worthwhile enterprise to fund through government expenditures. In defending the State, they frequently criticize liberals for being overly “anti-Bush,” as if this is a bad thing, any more, than, say, being anti-Clinton was in the 1990s.

        Indeed, that might have been one year that conservatives objected to paying taxes less than liberals did. After all, the money is going to the great causes of liberating and democratizing the world, enhancing the U.S. national-security state, and empowering the Republican Congress and president to spend ever more money to satisfy ever more constituents and to maintain a grip on this country, thus keeping the supposedly far more egregious Democrats at bay and out of power.

        Well, you liberals might want to think about the fact that taxation doesn’t go to what you want it to. That’s the very nature of taxation. If the tax money went to what you wanted it to, it wouldn’t need to be taken by force, since you obviously wanted to send it to where it was going anyway, and would have done so without the State’s coercion.

        If taxation is anything, it is the coercive confiscation of wealth with the understood purpose of directing that wealth toward places that the people who earned it would not, devoid of coercion, direct their money to voluntarily.

        When liberals say that they don’t mind paying taxes, they only mind what the taxes are used for, they’re uttering a contradiction, or, perhaps, admitting to enjoying being robbed. And they’re revealing a profound misunderstanding about the nature of taxation.

        Once we understand that taxation is, the coercive expropriation of wealth and redirection of it into places people did not voluntarily put their money, it becomes a given that the system will be abused, or, more accurately, that the abusive system will be used, and that the money will naturally go from those who need it to those with political connections. With this understanding it is no surprise that someone like George W. Bush, who famously couldn’t keep his own businesses afloat, was put in charge of the largest budget ever accumulated in the history of the world. This is the type of man who succeeds in socialist systems. The moral inversion and perversion of taxation results in morally inverted and perverted uses of the money.

        I do agree with the liberals that the money was spent in horrendous ways. But its worse than most of them realize, though, and no different under the current Administration.

        Most of the money goes to killing people, locking innocent people up, regulating the economy into stagnation, propping up cartelized industry, spying on Americans, constructing demonic weapons of mass destruction, and hooking Americans onto government “entitlement” programs so as to make them dependent on and subservient to a system they would be better off without.

        Indeed, the American people would most likely be better off being robbed of the same amount of wealth, without the benefit of any of the “services” the money funds.

        If the government stole half the wealth in this country and threw it in the ocean, we’d at least be spared the insult and injury of seeing our own wealth used against us to limit our personal and economic choices and compromise our personal safety.

        Liberals should come to terms with the fundamental truths about taxation. Today’s income tax regime is mass theft on an astronomical scale.

        It’s theft whether you approve of many of its uses and your politically opposing neighbor down the street does not, or vice versa.

        All taxation is theft, but income taxation has some unique qualities of injustice to it: the spying, the elimination of the rule of law and the presumption of innocence in tax disputes and audits, the fact that the more you make the higher percentage of your income you must fork over to the police state.

        Liberals should abandon once and for all their obsession with the Robin-Hood mythology of taxation as a process of stealing from the rich, to give to the poor, and remember that Robin Hood was in fact an enemy of the State that took from the governing rich the money they had stolen, through taxation, from the poor who earned it.

        For all the talk on the left about employers exploiting their workers by making a profit, there is precious little attention on the greatest, most clear-cut exploitation of labor in our country.

        A worker can usually find another job if the employer is all that bad; but it’s much harder to escape the coercive grip of the State’s taxation.

        The State extracts a large profit from all the workers in the country, and uses it to murder and imprison innocent people.

        The profits made by the corporate fat cats pale in comparison to the months of labor squeezed from workers every year to pay for the corporatist State.

        Clearly, the State is the principal engine of exploiting workers in modern civilization. To try to liberate the workers from exploitation by using the State is, at best, a futile program, and, at worst, a formula for totalitarian slavery of all workers.

        One reason the left is less offended by taxation than they might be, even given aspects of their own philosophical beliefs, probably has to do with how much the right complains about taxation, at least when they’re out of power.

        When liberals think about cutting taxes, they think of Reagan. But the man who closed “loopholes,” reduced deductions, and sent federal spending through the roof, the man who promised in a 1985 televised speech to bring justice to “those individuals and corporations who are not paying their fair share or, for that matter, any share”, was certainly no principled opponent of taxation.

        Like all Republican presidents, Reagan pretended to be a barrier between the American people and the taxing power of the State, even as he expanded that State and relied on the immoral practice of taxation for his career.

        Nor conservatives who cheered on the bombing of innocent people deserve to be associated with the wonderful cause of abolishing taxation, since, if for no other reason, they do not really want to see it abolished, for it would have been much harder to maintain projects such as the Iraq war in a totally free market.

        Which brings us back to the liberals and taxes. They will admit that under Bush and Reagan, taxation was inefficient, and went mostly to the wrong places. But under the Obama administration, will do an about-face, and dare not admit that the status-quo continues, nor concede that taxation is theft and inherently immoral.

        Well, liberals like to think about society as a community, as somewhat of a collective.

        Many of them would say it’s socially immoral that so many Americans go without healthcare and that any of them at all don’t have homes.

        If we could only convince them of the failures of coercive central planning, and explain why an enormous system of taxation simply guarantees that money will be wasted; that the unfortunate and middle class will have far fewer resources and the ruling elites, the warfare state, the prison system, and the bureaucracy will have more; that corporations in bed with the State will profit while the exploited masses continue to go without — if we could reach liberals on the economic inevitability that more taxation means less wealth for those in need and more wealth for the greedy — we might still NOT be able to convince them that taxation is theft. But, perhaps, we can convince them it is immoral.

        http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory70.html

    • Kathy

      Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a Democrat congresswoman from FL. She is also head of the Democrat National Committee. She led a rally against Romney’s off shore accounts, but BINGO, it was discovered that she also has offshore accounts. I guess she thought no one would find out. She is out of touch with the American taxpayer. Timmy Geithner, tax cheat, is also out of touch with the American tax payer.

      • ROSINA

        You beat me to it.
        Thx

      • JeffH

        Kathy, Don’t you know that the Marxist/progressive/communists are exempt from any critisizm. “Do as I say, not as I do”

      • needfulthings

        Well kathy :
        Investing in Swiss Banks, Foreign Drug Companies, and the State Bank of India can be done from right here in the USA. She’s NOT HIDING ASSIST , She’s NOT CREATING SHELL COMPANIES, She’s investing. Bye the Bye half our drugs come from “Foreign Companies” You know the ones, dubya gave big tax breaks too, the ones that dubya said you can charge us FULL PRICE for ( and no one else in the world pays that high price) ……… Yeah you know !!!! or you should.

    • http://www.facebook.com/katharine.kimball Katharine Kimball

      Rasta, Mitt Romney pays taxes. His 2010 tax returns and an estimate for 2011 indicates he is likely to pay $6.2 million in taxes. He also tithes 10% percent of his income and makes huge charitable donations.

      • SJJolly

        Tithing and making sizeable charitable contribution (especially if you have surplus wealth): The Mormon religion does have it’s good points.

      • Rasta

        Well I ‘m sure he won’t mind paying a little more. Also he should not mind closing those off shore accounts and making available all his tax returns! Just saying

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear Rasta,

          You write: “…and making available all his tax returns!” Perhaps about the time Obama releases an original long form birth certificate and his college records? Just saying…

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • JeffH

        Rasta, WOW! Again, you must put a lot of time into your thoughts and comments. By the way, how far into your reading of “The life and Times of Che Guerva” are you? Bet you’re enjoying it though.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Rasta: Well I ‘m sure he won’t mind paying a little more, you know, i needs a brand new van. Also he should not mind closing those off shore accounts and making available all his tax returns! Just coveting…

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      Rasta: Truth is, coveting destroys. I truly believe that most, if not all Americans, especially Conservative-Republicans, should not be allowed to protect their “assess” by placing their assets, in off shore accounts. The fact that Romney protects his azz, by protecting his assets in of shore accounts, It’s just more proof that you can’t trust the American Government, and that Romney is out of touch with the slothful-lice in America, who are unwilling to work, and are of the conviction, that the hard-working and successful should provide them with full financial-support, so we can continue living the life-style of our choice. If we could all not support the lazy, and the slothful, how great it would be. Right? Wrong!

  • Sharon Jenkins

    Obama and the liberal/socialist government is out of touch with American values. The Heath Care Plan is nothing more than a gigantic tax on the American people. By 2014, if you sell you home you are required to pay the govt 3.8% of the sale of the home. This helps fund health care. When you go to the doctor or hospital for test, you have to pay your co-payment at that time. In the Health Care Bill, the government has access to your checking and savings accounts. This violates your Constitutional rights. There is no Constitutional law against having off shore accounts.

    • http://facebook cllemens hacker

      Wrong! Obama is more intouch with people. Romney, as usual will try any thing to get
      elected. Romney is so full of hot air, he could float off like a ballon.

      • vet

        someone should hack your head and give you some brains.

      • Don

        Obama is a evil man and doesn’t care about you, me anybody. He loves his power and loves himself. The muslim and chief wants to bring our country down to the point where the government will be telling us what to do and when to do it. I just can’t understand why everyone doesn’t see this.

      • http://None Mike C

        Cllemens Hacker did you know that Obama ranks “Sitting Bull” as an American hero? I can’t think of anything more out of touch and more subversive than that.

        • Kim Simmons

          Reading over this entire article and the comments I have come to a conclusion. I think it might be time to dissolve the United States into two separate countries. My rational for this is actually very simple, none of us in the country are going to agree that Obama is incompetant and anti-American and that Romney or someone like him that understands that those that have money create jobs. If you do not believe that having money makes and creates jobs, you are living in some rarified air someplace smoking dope.
          We are headed for a civil war, and since you have obama doing everything he can to cause this great divide, it will be the idealists and poor versus people who want to succeed without government intervention.
          But if this does not happen soon Obama is going to give away our second amendment rights and trash our constitution and likely burn the Bill of Rights, all of which our ancestors fought and died for.
          What I have done with my money is my business, what you do with your money is not my business. How you came into your money, as long as it is legal, is no one’s business. Why do we have to know every nuance of how a person created their wealth as long as they did not break any laws?
          Got an idea, why not everyone who has written on this article publish your tax returns for the world to see, show everyone where you have or had bank accounts and what is in them as well as your safety deposit boxes if you have any. Lets not forget to publish where you live while we are at it.
          Not comfortable with that idea, why not what are you hiding?
          You see we all like our privacy, but once in public office we should make things public.
          Facts are we actually know more about Romney then we know about Obama. Heck we know more about President Washington then we know about Obama, why? Because he lied in his fictional autobiographical books, he refuses to release all of his records, and he is in office and has been for 3 1/2 years!
          You progressive liberal democrats will use your lies to destroy an individuals, because there are others are against everything obama stands for, dishonesty, incompetence and of course stupidity.
          But since none of us agree, I say split the baby ( America ) before we destroy ourselves so we can then control our own fate instead of having it dictated by an incompetence and dishonesty.
          Don’t like that idea, do not agree? Too bad, you see while you do know how to go on a rampage cause damage to businesses, there are more who know how to protect themselves, legally , at least for now.

      • JeffH

        cllemens hacker, WOW! Another big thinker, and possibly related to Rasta, makes an intelligent and profound comment.

        The Marxist/progressive/communistst’s are attacking PLD with their finest minds on this Friday the 13th.

    • Flashy

      “The Heath Care Plan is nothing more than a gigantic tax on the American people. ”

      OK…we had this disucssion beforehand when someone claimed it was rasing taxes on everyone. What is your definition of “gigantic” and we’ll stick to that one tax on everyone. It’s not exactly a huge raise (it’s about the same as a drop of water in skim milk)…but what taxes are you referring to ?

      “By 2014, if you sell you home you are required to pay the govt 3.8% of the sale of the home. This helps fund health care.”

      Try again. This is patently false. First of all, only those with incomes over $200,000 a year ($250,000 for married couples filing jointly) will be subject to it. And even for those who have such high incomes, the tax still won’t apply to the first $250,000 on profits from the sale of a personal residence — or to the first $500,000 in the case of a married couple selling their home.

      http://www.factcheck.org/2010/04/a-38-percent-sales-tax-on-your-home/

      “When you go to the doctor or hospital for test, you have to pay your co-payment at that time. In the Health Care Bill, the government has access to your checking and savings accounts. ”

      Jeesh…ya got an email listing these eh? I would spam delete those as you’re not getting the truth.

      http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/your_bank_account_is_safe_running_down_the_latest.php

      “This violates your Constitutional rights. There is no Constitutional law against having off shore accounts.”

      Errrrrr….according to the recent SCOTUS ruling, it is within the Constitutional boundaries. As for off shore accounts, nothing is being said Romeny is doing any illegal. The claims are he’s doing something he doesn’t want us to know about…and should we not know about it if he’s running for President? Don’t you want to know who we’re voting for or against?

      • Wumingren

        “Don’t you want to know who we’re voting for or against?” asks Flashy. Yeah, because look what happened when you stuck us with Obama!

      • Ted Crawford

        I’m far, far less interested in how much of his own money Romney has invested off-shore, than i am how much of our money Obama has invested off-shore.
        If you, truly from the stand point of an American, were interested in what ” we should know about for someone running for President ” you would have also been, and still be, demanding the information that Obama has paid Millions of dollars, hopefully his dollars, to keep hidden these past 4+ years! Your Partisanship is clearly showing !

      • Opal the Gem

        More senseles blathering from Flushy the proven preveracater.

      • Proud to be a Believer

        If I were Romney, I would say, I will open my kimono when Obama opens his. Period paragraph. I was really upset with the Republicans when they didn’t vet Obama when he was running for office but of course they were above that. They have to learn how to play dirty like the Democrats and their make believe world.

      • Thinking About

        Flashy, good report on the false information given on the 3.8% tax, too many read a few words and draw the wrong conclusion, especially Congress members putting out the wrong information. This is another “death panel” fact, they just cant get it right.

      • Gordon

        Flashy, what about that sales tax on top of the capital gains?

    • Pritty Brains

      This is blatantly untrue. Cite your sources to this.

      I say it is a huge untruth, so does PolitiFact, Fact Check and Snopes… I feel sorry for you people who believe whatever your republican leaders tell you to believe. They are lying to you. So like the email said when you received it, pass this truth around to everyone in your contact list, make sure all your family and friends learn the real truth about that lie.

      And this is the real truth:

      Home “sales tax” e-mail surfaces again

      “THIS WILL BLOW YOU AWAY!!!!!” said the message that arrived in our e-mail box on Feb. 2, which warned of a “ploy to steal billions from unsuspecting homeowners.”

      “Did you know that if you sell your house after 2012 you will pay a 3.8% sales tax on it?” the e-mails says. “That’s $3,800 on a $100,000 home, etc.” the e-mail says, adding that “under the new health care bill, all real estate transactions will be subject to a 3.8% sales tax.”

      The e-mail, circulating now in Rhode Island, directs recipients to GOP.gov, “the Website of the Republican majority in Congress.” It also encourages recipients to forward the message to everyone in their address books.

      It turns out that versions of this e-mail have been around for a few years, sparked by a provision in the new health care law, sometimes referred to as Obamacare, that is designed to cover some costs of the program.

      In April 2010, Snopes.com declared it False and FactCheck.org determined that it was bogus, a massive misstatement of a tax that would fall on relatively few people.

      And one year ago, national PolitiFact gave it a Pants on Fire because it was so deceptive.

      Because the e-mail has gotten new life in Rhode Island, we thought we’d remind people about the facts behind this claim.

      First of all, the 3.8-percent tax the e-mail cites, due to take effect next year, doesn’t apply to taxpayers making less than $200,000 in the year of the sale. (The limit for couples is $250,000 in adjusted gross income.) Any profit from the house sale is not included in the income calculation.

      This limitation alone excludes the vast majority of homeowners. The nonprofit, pro-business Tax Foundation estimated in 2010 that this provision alone would make the new tax irrelevant to about 98 percent of families. It would only apply to those with the highest incomes.

      Next, it isn’t a sales tax at all, because it applies only to the profit from the home sale, not the sales price itself.

      Third, if the property you’re selling is your primary residence — and not a second home, vacation home or rental property — you can turn a profit of $250,000 ($500,000 for couples) before the tax kicks in.

      In addition, the tax is assessed only on the amount of profit that exceeds that limit. (The median sale price for a home in the U.S. was $164,500 in December, 2011, one big reason why the vast majority of Americans won’t be affected by the tax.)

      (Other property, such as that second home, would incur the tax, but, again, your basic income has to be high enough for you to be hit.)

      The 3.8-percent tax is in addition to the existing capital gains tax that must be paid now. That rate is generally 15 percent.

      So consider a couple who sells their home for $1 million after buying it many years ago for $100,000.

      If they earn $249,000 that year, they will pay no new tax.

      If they earn $251,000, they will be taxed. Although the profit on the home sale will be $900,000, the first $500,000 is not taxed. They will have to pay 3.8 percent on the remaining $400,000, in addition to the usual capital gains tax.

      The National Association of Realtors (Realtor.org) has an 11-page booklet, “The 3.8% Tax; Real Estate Scenarios & Examples,” that outlines various scenarios and shows who will need to worry about the tax.

      Our ruling

      The chain e-mail claim that “if you sell your house after 2012 you will pay a 3.8 percent sales tax” is untrue on so many levels as to be ridiculous.

      It’s not a sales tax because it doesn’t apply to the full sale price of the home, only the profit made in the sale.

      It’s not going to apply to the vast majority of Americans, only those whose income is more than $200,000 ($250,000 for couples).

      It’s not going to apply to most people selling their home because they won’t be getting $250,000 more than they paid for it ($500,000 for couples).

      Because the e-mail wildly misrepresents one aspect of the new health care law, we rate it Pants on Fire.

      http://www.politifact.com/rhode-island/statements/2012/feb/07/chain-email/home-sales-tax-e-mail-surfaces-again/

      • Ted Crawford

        That is only one of the Twenty-one, (7 new &14 increased) taxes imbedded in this Leviathan! They are less than half way through and have already found 180 new Boards, Commissions and Bureaus created and over 13,000 pages of new regulations generated by it ! In addition to that it’s costs have risen astronomically, from $800+ Billion to, by CBO this week, over $2.6 Trillion !
        Like Nancy said ” you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still A PIG “

    • SJJolly

      Ever consider where the money to fund Emergency Rooms’ policy of being open to all, regardless of ability to pay, comes from? (A: Taxes on all of us). Is the requirement for all to have health insurance (govenment subsidized if necessary) all that much worse? If you think it is, what do you suggest as an alternative? — having to prove ability to pay before the ER medics can treat you?

    • ROSINA

      Right!
      especially about digging into our personall accounts.
      this has scared me as I have worked and saved for 50years and do not intend the govt. to steal it for their friends and the workshy, whilst they enjoy high salaries, freedom from most of the laws they pass???such as this RuinCare!
      I am not rich but saved and invested myself. The govt. did not help me. So why steal my savings?
      I am looking for a way to preserve my own as without my savings could not pay my rent even. The Swiss Annuity sounds good to me.
      How does one go about it Bob?

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear ROSINA,

        For a free information packet write to: SA Packet, PO Box F42657 Freeport, Grand Bahama, Bahamas.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

  • Tom Paine

    What do you call someone who benefits from a society that provides infrastructure, stability, security, and a healthy educated workforce, but refuses to support that society? A parasite!

    • Douglas C. Smyth

      Agreed. Romney refuses to release any but his last two years of his tax filings and you have to wonder why. He apparently owns a Bermuda corporation worth millions, plus a Swiss account–until 2010–as well as the Cayman Islands accounts. Each worth at least a million. So, he offshored his money, which doesn’t demonstrate much faith in the US economy.

      His claim that he would make a better leader to get the US out of the Great Stagnation is based on his supposed business acumen, but that skill, which amassed for him $250+ million, wasn’t based on building businesses up, but liquoring them up with debt and then making off with the proceeds, and/or offshoring a good part of their jobs and downgrading the rest to ‘associates,’ who aren’t paid decent wages.

      If that’s the model he plans on, then God help the rest of us.

      As for protecting his money: for God’s sake, he made the money in this country, and benefited from the infrastructure, built with public money, maintained by public money.

      But it seems that the conservative worldview wants something for nothing: don’t pay taxes, don’t support schools, but use well-educated workers, use roads, use law enforcement to protect your money, and Romney epitomizes that worldview.

      • LAP

        As does your boy Oblamer, Pelosi (insider trading), Reid and his Vegas mob friends and Wasserman-Shultz the foriegn account hypocrite. All of these 1%’s do the exact same or worse. Pull your head out you stupid, jealous a$$.

      • Bev

        So Douglas what do you expect Romney to do? Do you think you are entitled to some of his money? Do you think you entitled to some of my money? Romney paid taxes on that money when it was earned. Do you think he needs to continue to pay taxes on it? Do you pay taxes again and again on the money you’ve earned? You’ve really swilled the koolaid. At least Romney has some business acumen – please tell me again what Obama brought to the White House besides his family.

      • monab

        Tell obama to release his college records his medical records and whatever other records most people release when they become president. And maybe his real birth certificate. Romney has made his money honestly and not by chicago politics or writing books about himself when he was supposed to be doing something else with the funds that the college gave him. Talk about dishonest.

      • Dorian Douglas

        To Douglas C Smyth & others

        Read Reelman’s comment. When you don’t understand it, read it again. When you don’t understand it read it again.

        When you don’t understand it, read it again!

        I would debate you, but I’m busy teaching my dog algebra.

        Dorian Douglas

      • Don

        Obama hasn’t released any of the things you say Romney hasn’t turned over like his real birth certificate and how he was a citizen in two counties at the same time. How he got into college ect.

      • sandman4X4

        you and a lot of progesseive inc. Davis L have been so blinded by hate that you can’t see straight, every thing you said about Mitt, you could say about you dem. buddies, the one thing you can’t say about you buds are the amount in giving to the poor! the dems are sucj known cheepskates, and if your so riled up over Mitts records, where oh where are obummers? talk about not knowing anything about a candidate!! not one school record, or health record, and the only reason we get his tax papers is because he has too!! and what about his SSN#? from Conn. when he has never been to Conn? at least we know Mitts is real! there are so many points of interest of obummer that we have no knowlege of?

      • ROSINA

        Then, what have you to say about A. Gore (the bore) who left Congress with approx. $1.000,000 and now is worth oVER $100million? with his manmade climate change scam which has added huge amounts to taxes and green initiatives, all bankrupt, as Solyndra. BUt, he still has his money and two enormous houses,
        BUT, of course, he is a demoncrap!

      • phideaux

        “Romney hasn’t turned over like his real birth certificate and how he was a citizen in two counties at the same time. How he got into college ect.”

        Ah ha but Romney isn’t doing all he can to hide it either.

    • CEO

      Mr.Paine,

      Please tell us what society your are referring to.

      Certainly not the US of A.

      Our Infastructure is questionable, we have security theater, our healthy educated workforce is obese, can’t read and is out of work.

      The parasites exist in the corporate/government elite and the non contributing entitlement elite.

    • http://www.facebook.com/delroy.brown.90 Delroy Brown

      How can you call your self patriotic but refuse to pay your fair share of tax to support the military which protect your sorry behind. What Mitt Romney does that pay has to me made up by the 99%, or we cut service in areas such as education ,public safety, research and development and renewal and upgrade to infrastructure. Mitt Romney makes his money with Bain and to avoid paying taxes at the regular rate as the 99% takes his salary in deferred stock share. When he collects the dividends on the stock all he pays is 13% in stead of 30 like the rest of us. He should only pay 13% if he invest money he already paid tax on, anything else is called beating the system. To add insult to injury he hides this money and invest it in overseas blind trust that way no one can track his earning and he avoids paying taxes on earnings. This guy is very shifty and should not be trusted with the US purse string.

      • JeffH

        Delroy, “pay your fair share” is the liberal code word for redistribution and theft! You’ve paid close attention to the propaganda…aka Polly want a cracker? baaarrraaaccckkkkk!

        • n

          Sorry jeffH you got it wrong;
          The so called code word for redistribution also is called ‘SPECIAL TAX BREAKS FOR THE WEALTHY” CON-gress convened special session(s) just to give tax breaks to the very rich (15 families) like the Waltons so they paid at or near zero taxes on their inheritance, you know money they didn’t earn! Some family members got 10 Billion dollars and 1or 2 billion in taxes would have been too much to bare, yet if some one wants to give lets say a poor family (making 20/30 grand a year) $20,000 bucks they have’ta pay taxes on that.

          The top 400 richest people have improved their WEALTH by some 1200% in 10 years, most of that was tax breaks, lowering Capital Gains to 15% ( was at one time 45%) and those very speical tax give backs by buying favors, while the middle class seen 100% and that disapeared thru cost of living.

          Did ya know that the greatest grow rate ever seen in the USA was during the late 50′s thru the 70′s (before ronnie star wars ray gun) The rich paid the same taxes as the worker bees up to one miilion and everything above that million was taxed at 80 to 90%, capital gains was 45% . Corprate taxes are at the lowest point in 59 Years! ( they use to pay the largest % of taxes to the government).

          YES the the rich pay more in taxes, but its the PERCENTAGE of their income that is taken, WE the 95%ers pay out 20 / 25% of our available monies plus higher state taxes than the rich, a larger portion of our TOTAL income is taken! The right likes to talk about 45% of us pay no taxes, what they don’t tell ya is that INCLUDES , STUDENTS, RETIREES, DISABLED AND VERY LOW INCOME families are much of the 45%.

          • Kim Simmons

            N,
            I guess we can assume it is best if those above a certain income level just paid 100% in taxes the liberals would be happy. Then of course the following year that 100% would not be there because they would have left the country, just as there has been an increase in very wealthy democrats leaving the country, likely as well as Republicans leaving.
            What percentage is the correct percentage? At what point do we tell a person in America they have earned enough and it must stop.
            All countries are moved forward by people who invent, develop, create market successfully, yes even in the old Soviet Union there were the wealthy, as in China as well.
            But only in America is creating wealth now becoming something to be despised and hated and ” we must tax them to make them pay their fair share. What is a fair share?
            Steve Jobs created an empire and became extremely wealthy, but at Apple he took only $1.00 a year in salary, but he was given stock. Do we hate him or want to emulate him? Some of the richest people in America, those that created the wealth that made America, were terrible people personally, but gave millions to univeristies that would not exist today if it were not for them. If you tax they will not give. If you tax enough they will leave. Then those 45% that do not pay any tax now will wake up one morning and discover they have to pay a tax because no one else is paying the tax at all.
            Tell us what is fair, what percentage is enough, but before you open your mouth or start writing, think about what you would do if it was you paying the tax.

          • needfulthings

            I didn’t say “a certain income level just paid 100% in taxes the liberals would be happy”

            “What is a fair share)?, well that would depend on your daffy-nition ?
            I believe fair is a PROGRESSIVE TAX SYSTEM (much like we have now). You benefit more you pay more, END WELFARE for the wealthy, No special deals. Keep some of what you EARNED,(do ya hear me Paris Hilton) none of what you have stolen by paying off politicians.

            “At what point do we tell a person in America they have earned enough and it must stop.” >
            NEVER!

            “If you tax they will not give”. NOT TRUE, they are more special, under the tax code they can DEDUCT a larger percentage of what they give than you can.

            Then those 45% that do not pay any tax now will wake up one morning and discover they have to pay a tax because no one else is paying the tax at all.>>

            You didn’t read or comprehend what I wrote> “That 95% of the people who don’t pay federal taxes are RETIRED (LOW INCOME), STUDENTS ARE NOT EARNING YET. Some are DISABLED and some are LIVING ON SO LITTLE INCOME they don’t pay. but they all pay some kind of state taxes.

            Steve Jobs NOT VERY KIND OR GIVING, but that was His choice!, Apple is GREED at it’s finest, never made enough, never paid a divided (till now) moved everything overseas and THATS WHY THERE WILL NEVER BE AN APPLE PRODUCT IN MY HOUSE!

          • Kim Simmons

            Needfulthings,
            I have no problem as long as the tax is fair and what we have now, you are right is wacky. As has been said before, the wealthy do not need the welfare and do to want it but because it is in place it has been said they have to take it. SS is one of those, the wealthy should and do pay into it but they should not receive SS.
            My retired 93 year old mother pays her federal taxes so who is retired that is not paying their federal taxes? I have two siblings who are retired ( over 65), both pay their federal taxes each year, neither of they are considered wealthy by any measuring stick. As a full time student who also worked full time, I also paid my federal taxes. I will let you know on the disabled, because at 61, I was declared disabled after a successful career and I am unable to work, which I am not happy about. Yes everyone pays state taxes as you said.
            But a type of consumption tax excluding foods, might be a better choice-maybe. The wealthy purchase far more then anyone else, so maybe that would due the way to go instead of a percentage.
            Now as far as Apple is concerned, here you have a product that has established itself well above the standards of most Windows computers or other hardware for that matter. While I do agree their products would better suit me if they were made in the US, labor costs would have made their products so extreme, only the very wealthy would have purchased them until they went under. So you see it was the labor that caused a very well built machine to be built over seas. Not greed. I know of other American companies that have not paid dividends-ever, but lets not go there. We have to understand, it is a global economy, items are made all over, mostly out of the United States because labor costs have become so high here the products would sit on the shelves. Unions who spend millions upon millions to purchase political power, could instead take less and work out deals with management to lower product costs as well as lower exceutive salaries instead of higher wages and higher union fees. Do you think they are thinking of America when they go on strike for more benefits? Given a choice to freeze wages or the plant would close-thus loss their jobs, they chose not to work with the corporation, this happened right here in my hometown, fact.

          • Baldmurph

            The story of Studebaker (remember that automobile?) comes to mind. Low level management and workers were constantly at odds. At last contract renewal company opened books to union officials showing them they couldn’t survive the demanded new contract. Union agreed, went back to workers, who were sufficiently angry at their bosses they didn’t care and wanted what they wanted. Studebaker caved, everyone went back to work for six or seven months until Studebaker shut down for good, everyone went home without jobs, and Studebaker was no more. (Story recalled from a lesson in a Management-Labor Relations text from a class long ago)

          • Proud to be a Believer

            Baldmurph, you have to understand the mentality that you are dealing with when it comes to Union members. They have no realization of reality that the only way a company can stay in business is if they make money. They have the mentality of our government. The unions do absolutely no good with the exception of the various labor unions who out of their dues that are paid by the employer, take care of vacation pay, health and welfare and retirement. Plus they also train their members. The only thing the other unions promise the people is that they cannot get fired as they have seniority no matter if they do a good job or not. When I worked for the Panama Canal Co years ago, my boss was the Union Boss for Government employees and he was always trying to get me to join and I always said why would I want to pay for something that is of no assistance to me. I don’t go along with the old saying that it was Unions that made the wage earner to have better pay and working conditions which is absolutely baseless. When you own a business you pay for good employees WHO WORK that is called competition

          • needfulthings

            The rest of the story on why Studebaker failed!!

            So the men at the top were smart. But in the post-war era, they made mistakes.

            The first was that they failed to sock away sufficient funds to enable the company to withstand a major downturn in business. Instead, they paid out large dividends, which pleased stockholders. From 1946 to 1952, that didn’t seem to present a problem–but when things began to get rocky in 1953, the company didn’t have enough cash to ride it out.

            Another big problem was Studebaker’s aggressive union, which saddled the company with the highest labor costs in the industry.The company always seemed to cave in to union demands rather than risk a strike. Next were sales and quality problems with the 1953 models, followed by a big downturn in sales in 1954. By mid-1956, the company was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

            A 1956 agreement in which Curtiss-Wright agreed to manage the company for a while was another major problem. What Studebaker needed at that point was money; what it got was advice from people with almost no automotive experience. Curtiss-Wright management ended up going through Studebaker like a flock of crows picking the plumpest berries off the tree. When they were finished, they left.

            Why Why Why do you right wingers ALWAYS need to lie or leave part pf the story out?

          • Baldmurph

            I spoke no lie, just what I remembered, without research, which you have kindly provided. They got picked clean. But you are not disputing mismanagement and angry workers – which put them in that position in the first place?

          • needfulthings

            No one can have ALL the details for sure, but when I see “it was one thing” that just ain’t almost never REALITY.
            As for unions, they really don’t have power other than what management gives them? If they truely open the books and prove it will kill the company I just don’t see many willing to lose it all. I’m sure it happened a few times?

          • baldmurph

            Some companies tried beating them down, as I read. Research the Molly Maguires (sp?) Government eventually established the right to unionize, try to level the playing field. Some places now may be reasonably level, some are rather not. Some places one side or the other uses toughs to persuade support or express displeasure of disagreement. I’ve seen both; don’t tell me which one is a personal friend of St. Peter. Unions try to get the best deal for the worker, that’s their purpose. What I remembered and wrote was that the union officials looked at the books, agreed with the company, and went back to the members supporting Studebaker’s offer: members/workers were too ticked at years of mismanagement and illtreatment to agree and demanded what they wanted. I believe you wrote management was too fearful of a strike and signed off on the death deal, and everyone lost, except possibly Curtis (or not as badly). Competition and balance are generally good; absolute power corrupts absolutely. Heaven and Hell both have absolute rulers. Make of that what you will.

          • Baldmurph

            I do not lie, I write what I remember without taking time to figure out how to research the details. Thanks for that, by the way. But you say essentially that mismanagement generated irate workers and a conflict that generated Studebaker’s collapse, and they were picked clean, which is where I thought I was. But the details you mention give a slightly less arrogant look to management than was my impression. Again, thanks for the additional information.

          • Baldmurph

            We have workers, union and nonunion, who want to do a good job, be treated with a modicum of courtesy, be kept informed about changes in operation and safety in the work place earlier rather than later, and take home a wage adequate to support their family. And we have bums and troublemakers. We have managers, firstline and up, who have some consideration for the grunts on the line, who consider the needs of their workers as well as the need to make a profit. And we have abusers and fools who will try to squeeze the last bit of effort out of the people working for them for substandard reward. And by the nature of the game, union officials are the same as all the above. The trick is to find and keep the most positive balance, which we do not do well. Drill sergeants are absolutely necessary for some situations; time crunch situations where response must be immediate reflex and right the first time comes to mind. If the workers do not think the company is ripping them off there is little incentive to unionize. If they feel bullied and squeezed . . . .

      • JeffH

        n(?) Au contraire! I don’t expect you to understand it or get it…you’re a member of the envious society.

        One of the lines that President Obama continues to use and you’ve been sucked into believing is that the rich don’t “pay their fair share” in taxes.

        You seem to support the idea that the rich “don’t pay their ‘fair share’ in taxes” but unfortunately, it’s just not true. Let’s look at it by the numbers: The top 1% of Americans earn 19% of the income in America, but pay 37% of the taxes. The top 5% earn 33% of the income, while paying 57% of taxes. The top 25% earn 66% of the income while paying 85% of the taxes. Liberals are right, the “rich” aren’t paying “their fair share” they’re paying far more than their fair share!

        Some sources will offer you a different metric: The percentage of taxes as opposed to percentage of wealth. I’m sorry, but there are two issues with that mentality: One, taxes are paid on income (that’s incoming money, for those of you from Palm Beach County, FL) not on wealth.

        The bottom line is this, the wealthy pay significantly more than their “fair share” in taxes. The only way to claim they don’t is to believe that their “fair share” is whatever government wants it to be. It’s simply a false statement bent on class warfare.
        http://biblicalconservatism.blogspot.com/2011/07/dissecting-liberal-talking-points-rich.html

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        need-motivation says:I didn’t say “a certain income level just paid 100% in taxes the liberals would be happy”

        “What is a fair share)?, well that would depend on your daffy-nition ?
        I believe fair is a PROGRESSIVE TAX SYSTEM (much like we have now). You benefit more you pay more, END WELFARE for the wealthy, No special deals. Keep some of what you EARNED,(do ya hear me Paris Hilton) none of what you have stolen by paying off politicians.

        “At what point do we tell a person in America they have earned enough and it must stop.” >
        NEVER!

        “If you tax they will not give”. NOT TRUE, they are more special, under the tax code they can DEDUCT a larger percentage of what they give than you can.

        Then those 45% that do not pay any tax now will wake up one morning and discover they have to pay a tax because no one else is paying the tax at all.>>

        You didn’t read or comprehend what I wrote> “That 95% of the people who don’t pay federal taxes are RETIRED (LOW INCOME), STUDENTS ARE NOT EARNING YET. Some are DISABLED and some are LIVING ON SO LITTLE INCOME they don’t pay. but they all pay some kind of state taxes.

        Steve Jobs NOT VERY KIND OR GIVING, but that was His choice!, Apple is GREED at it’s finest, never made enough, never paid a divided (till now) moved everything overseas and THATS WHY THERE WILL NEVER BE AN APPLE PRODUCT IN MY HOUSE!

        need-a-ful-set-of-brains, you’se needs to gets yourselfs a job, and gits your own money, cracker…

  • LAP

    Rasta you must be thinking of the US financial institutions – that the US citizens can’t protect their monies. Swiss based financial firms back their assets, unlike US firms. Just ask Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

  • mark

    The rich with their various loopholes, accountants, and tax lawyers pay very little in taxes. They never have and never will. They also never send their children into the military to fight for their country but rather to the top, elite universities of this country. This is what makes them great Americans. And Mitt Romney is one of the greatest of them all.

    • Ted Crawford

      GAO seems to have a different understanding of this than you do Mark!
      Top 1% of wage earners pay 38% of the total tax revenues, while earning 20% of the pre-tax income
      Top 5% of wage earners pay 58.7% of revenue, while earning 34.7% of income
      Bottom 50% pay 2.7% of revenue while earning 12.75% of income

      • mark

        But the rich hide so much of their income. Income and weath disparities have been growing massively in the last 30 years. There is class warfare out there – and the rich are winning hands down. What makes it even better for them is that they have so my syncophants and servants like you Ted who swallow their propaganda and “statistics” whole and disseminate them to others. “Useful idiot,” I believe is the term that those on this website love to throw around. Kool-Aid drinker, also.

      • JeffH

        Ted, have you ever heard a “hair lipped” dog bark?
        “mark, mark, mark”

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        mark: But the rich save so much of their income. Income and weath disparities have been growing massively, between hard-working, and disciplined, and the slothful living on hand-outs, in the last 30 years. There is class warfare out there – and the hard-working and disciplined, are winning hands down. What makes it even better for them is that they have so many who follow their example, probably much like you, Ted, who benefit, as proven by “statistic”, that hard work and discipline, has its just rewards. There seems to be a striking difference, i have observed, between hard-working and self-reliant, and myself; a “Useful idiot,” I believe is the term that you use to describe me. A Kool-aid drinker, as well. But i must admit, i’m hopelessly addicted to that kool-aid!

      • Gordon

        Mark, grandpa always said that nobody is totally worthless, they can always serve as a bad example.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Mark, does envy and coveting eating you up.

      • mark

        No, but injustice does. Conservatives generally celebrate injustice and inequality. I condemn it.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        mark: No, but injustice does. Conservatives generally celebrate injustice and inequality. I condemn it. Liberals generally reward sloth and perversion. I approve it.

        • baldmurph

          Point taken. Pick your poison and try to relax and enjoy it – - freedom of choice is the American way!

    • jeepman1

      mark, ever file taxes? Do you claim the Earned Income Tax Credit? Ever write off your mortgage interest? Child Care? Charitable Donations? I’m sure you have…nice loopholes you have used.

      • mark

        They are small and tiny ones compared to those that Willard Romney gets. For instance, he had Bain pay him in stock options and only had to pay 15% in taxes on the massive income he earned there. That’s a lower rate than many janitors, textile workers, coal miners, and U.S. infantrymen pay. But that’s justice – rich man’s-style.

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear mark,

          You write: “That’s a lower rate than many janitors, textile workers, coal miners, and U.S. infantrymen pay.” You know some well-paid janitors and textile workers. The effective tax rate is 15% for those with taxable income between $8,700 and $35,350. (BTW: This is not meant as in any way supporting the current tax structure, but merely to engage your nonsensical assertion that Romney is somehow paying less than “many janitors, textile workers, coal miners, and U.S. infantrymen pay.”) And another aside, that 15% Romney pays is on money the company earned and has paid taxes on already.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

          • Proud to be a Believer

            Bob, you just cannot get thru to people who no inkling of what they are talking about that is the reason they have not made a bunch of money. It sounds like they have never filed one of their own tax returns and don’t know the laws nor do they want to know the laws. And worst of all THEY VOTE!!!!

      • http://www.gnld-neolife.com Kerry

        Last year I made $18,000. I was in the 15% tax bracket. But because of all my LEGAL deductions, I ended up with a bottom line of zero so I paid no taxes. So shoot me. Sent me to jail. Bad-mouth me. Tell lies about me. Tell me how “un-American” I am. Claim I am not a Patriot. Claim that I am “taking advantage of the system”. Claim that I am no better than Obama. Tell me I am just like Romney. I WISH I was more like Romney. At least I would be able to pay my bills. And trust me, if I had any “extra” money, it would be in an off-shore account .

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        mark: They are small and tiny ones compared to those that Willard Romney gets. For instance, he had Bain pay him in stock options and only had to pay 15% in taxes on the massive income he earned there. That’s a lower rate than many janitors, textile workers, coal miners, and U.S. infantrymen pay. But that’s justice – rich man’s-style. And it just burns my butt that i’m not in the position!

        • baldmurph

          Isn’t the theory of that lower tax rate on investment profits left in is to encourage more people to leave the money invested (and support businesses providing wages and, hopefully, useful products) for more people, rather than just take all the fully taxed remains and go spend it in party places overseas? If you aren’t happy with people doing what’s legal, you have representatives in DC who may be willing to consider changes to the law if they think it right and just . . . .

  • dan

    Where’s Obama’s money hidden….or the Clinton’s….
    but more importantly, where are the bodies ?

    • http://www.gnld-neolife.com Kerry

      Dan, you are awesome! :-)

  • John R. Howell

    Would you rather have that lying muslim communist Obama for president who never earned an honest dime and who wants to bring communism to the rest of us, or a hard working Christian who wants to restore America to a once great nation?

    • Flashy

      Who’s a hard working christian running for President?

      • http://www.facebook.com/Brownink09 Frank B.

        Why, RON PAUL, of course!!

    • mark

      Romney’s not a Christian, he’s a Mormon.

      • Kim Simmons

        Actually Mormons are Christians, just as Lutherans , Catholics, Methodists, and Baptists are Christians Plus anyone I left out who also consider themselves Christians. Maybe instead of passing on incorrect statements you should check the facts. However as a democrat that is the last thing you do, facts are a reality and progressive democrats have no use for truth or facts. Facts and truth get in the way of what they want, which is to dictate how someone should live and then provide them with that life. You all want government to rule you, not govern you. Looking at it another way, if the democrats would have had their way, England would have still ruled us, up until 1941 at least then we’d all be speaking German or Russian by now.

      • Ted Crawford

        He is well aware of that Kim, he is just trying, not very skillfully, to apply Alinskys Rule Ten !

      • http://www.gnld-neolife.com Kerry

        If he was atheist, I would still support him. Mormon, Christian…ANYTHING but a Muslim pretending to be a Christian.

      • Gordon

        Kim= the number one premise of Christianity is that Jesus Chris IS GOD…… which the Mormons and J. Witnesses do NOT believe.

        • Proud to be a Believer

          You do not know of what you speak. The mormons not only use the full bible just like any other Christian denomination, however, then they have another book called the book of Mormon which is in addition to. Of course they believe in the trinity. On the other hand, Jehovahs Witnesses do not believe in the Trinity per sa however, they know all about Jesus the Crhist as when I studied with them years ago, that was when I first learned that it was Jesus word that created the universe in Genesus 1. They are also strong believers in Reverlation and what is about to happen there. I don’t know if they believe in Paul or not and that is what the Christians have to go by is the Pauline Doctrine because everything else in the Bible is for the Jew only however, we can learn from the other books.

        • baldmurph

          Now we are fussing about definitions. Don’t get too tight, or you will have too much spatter outside the limiting circles. We go from Torah to Jesus to Mohammed. If you follow the teachings of Jesus and not of Mohammed are you not a Christian? (RC speaking for self, not official pronouncement of his church of choice)

    • http://www.facebook.com/delroy.brown.90 Delroy Brown

      Why is every one labelled a communist or socialist when they try to point out the uneven distribution of wealth and the advantages enjoyed by those who are able to cheat on their taxes.

      • Jim

        Seriously? Read Karl Marx’s Communist Manifesto then read what you just posted. You will be as Suprise as I am at your comment.

      • needfulthings

        Because it’s a rush Limpballs/Fox talking point! Don’t worry it measn nothing!

  • JimH

    Just how much is enough?
    Define “fair share”
    Since much of what our Fed, state and local governments spend money on isn’t necessary, how much should we be “obligated” to pay?
    Between all of the governing bodies “we” support what % of our money really is tax payment? WAY MORE than you think.
    Putting a leash on the wreckless spending is more important than trying to get the tax revenue to catch up with spending..

    • Douglas C. Smyth

      A little known fact: Obama has increased spending from his first budget to his last (the first year’s budget was Bush’s) less than 1%, while Bush raised spending over 17%. In fact, Obama has raised spending less than every President back to Coolidge.

      Obama is no Communist, no Socialist and no Muslim, and he was born in Hawaii. He’s a somewhat conservative centrist Democrat. He has been faced by an obstructionist Republican minority from day one, with whom he has tried, unsuccessfully, to compromise on all the great issues of the day. Unsuccessfully, because Republicans have become more and more extreme in their anti-government ideology.

      A case in point: Romney sponsored and signed the healthcare law in Massachusetts as a mainstream Republican. That bill was the model for Obama’s healthcare law, yet Republicans now oppose it almost universally. And by the way, Romneycare is quite popular in Massachusetts.

      • Bev

        Douglas you are quite a piece of work. You don’t even understand how our govt works. States can pretty much do what they want in their state. That does not automatically confer to the feds. The federal govt has gotten way out of control and is taking power that it does not have. We really need to have a reset in this country so that morons like you finally get the picture.

      • Flashy

        That’s why they can’t run against Pres. Obama without lies and distortions of the facts. When you get right down to it, there’s not much objectionable to Obama’s policies.

      • JimH

        Since Obama got in the deficit is $4 trillion(with a T) higher than it was. 1% increase?
        The money that the taxman doesn’t get each year (according to the article) is 100 billion(with a B) The deficit goes up a trillion a year during this admin.
        It’s the irresponsable, wreckless spending that is the REAL problem.

      • Dorian Douglas

        You really ought to try learning algebra.

        Romney in Mass balanced the program’s budget by using the state’s $500,000,000 share of medicare & medicaid, with no new taxes. Obama is stealing $5,000,000,000,000 from Medicare (which is broke), so more taxes, borrowing, and printing more new money.

        Have you learned algebra yet?

        Dorian Douglas

      • http://www.gnld-neolife.com Kerry

        Wait a minute. I don’t know where all you Dems get your information but it is not fact-based, it is probably just whatever comes out of Obama’s mouth. MA already had a healthcare system in place that was bankrupting the state. Romney came in as Governor and made changes to the healthcare system — basically re-wrote it — which saved the state from bankrupting. In the original healthcare system in MA, there were loopholes in the laws that some very rich folks took advantage of and were getting “free” healthcare (compliments of the state of MA). The loopholes were closed due to Romney’s involvement and they got pissed off because they no longer could suck off the state. THAT is where the discontent comes from.

        Obama tried to copy the law transforming into a NATIONAL law, added to it, made it into a 2,700 page document that nobody had time to read OR understand, adding bells and whistles and over 21 new or increased taxes, transforming it into a healthcare plan that did not even resemble Romney’s, and then he shoved it down the throats of all Americans nationwide without ever making it available for anyone to read until AFTER it was signed into law by Congress and the American people didn’t even have a chance to vote on it!!! That is NOT the way Romney operates and “Romneycare” (a pet name for the MA healthcare system penned by the Democrats) is NOTHING LIKE Obamacare. The people who voted for it had never even read it! Republicans are against this sort of behavior and so they continuously vote to repeal it. If you actually read it, you wouldn’t want it either. Sometimes I wish that Obamacare would be allowed to run along for at least 4 years so all you Dems could start crying when you can no longer choose your doctor or get immediate care while draining your bank accounts trying to pay the higher and higher insurance rates, because they WILL go up and they have already gone up just like health care. So if you say that the Republicans are hindering Obama from getting anything accomplished, give them a medal!! The Dems just sign anything that comes across their desk just because they support Obama without question…except for five of them who did vote for repeal this week.

        I went to the hospital to have a test. They charged me $146 to find out I had a contagious bacteria in my colon from something I ate. Two weeks later I had the same test done after being on antibiotics for 10 days to see if the bacteria was still there. That second test was IDENTICAL to the first test and the second test cost $210. Explain that to me? My CT scans have gone from about $1,500 each to about $2,500 each in the last eight months. Get the picture? You Dems should try talking about something you have at least researched first.

        • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

          Kerry … Do you really think Romney did a good job with his Romneycare? Think again. I read your post and I wondered if you wrote it in your sleep.
          And you have the sack to say they “Romney came in as Governor and made changes to the healthcare system — basically re-wrote it — which saved the state from bankrupting. In the original healthcare system in MA”

          Then you wrote “That is NOT the way Romney operates and “Romneycare” (a pet name for the MA healthcare system penned by the Democrats) is NOTHING LIKE Obamacare.  “.
          WOW. They are very similar in places including the part with “if you can not afford insurance we will fine you through the IRS until you get it anyway” was Romney’s. I think it is you who doesn’t read.

          I do not think Obamacare is perfect but he improved it where he could and compromised with GOP who said they would not let it pass if he didn’t include the GOP stuff.

          As part of his liberal phase when governor of Massachusetts — political principles have been ever-flexible for Romney — he orchestrated passage of legislation with eerie similarities to ObamaCare. Massachusetts mandates purchase of insurance, decides what benefits must be offered, and maintains a complex system of subsidies and penalties. Declared Boston Globe columnist Adrian Walker, the two programs are “not identical, but they’re certainly close kin.” MIT economist Jonathan Gruber, who advised both Gov. Romney and President Obama on health care, asserted: “Basically, it’s the same thing.”

          And even this idiot said “Texas Gov. Rick Perry may end Romney’s easy ride. Perry already has gone after Romney, observing: “I think Mitt is finally recognizing that the Massachusetts healthcare plan that he passed is a huge problem for him, and yeah, it was not almost perfect.” This is likely only the first of many hits”.

          Again, ObamaCare is not in any way perfect but I hope Obama removes the mistakes of the GOP inclusions in his second term and works on whatever else we could benefit from.

          Have a nice day Kerry …

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Flashy: That’s why they can’t run against Pres. Obama without lies and distortions of the facts, as that just doesn’t make sense, since Obama is already using that campaign-strategy. No, they need a different strategy. You can’t have both parties using the strategy of lies and distortions of the facts. That’s crazy, as you will only end-up with too many lies and distortions of the facts. Think about it, If both parties use the same strategy, how will anyone be able to tell the difference between lies and distortion of the facts, and lies and distortion of the facts? That’s just crazy, don’t you think?

    • Ted Crawford

      JimH, how could you make such a statement? ! Do you mean to imply that Lisa Jacksons , in her never ending zeal to maintain our environmental integrity, $25,000 Grant to an Interpretive Dance Company wasn’t a prudent or defensable expenditure ? Say it ain’t so, after all her hard work, shame , shame !

      • JimH

        Ted, Dare we forget Harry Reid earmarking money for the “essential” Cowboy Poetry Festival.
        Fine stewardship of the taxpayers money.
        They just want our “fair share”.

  • Pete0097

    Obama isn’t entirely stupid, he invested in companies that he mandate sell jet fuel to the military for $26 per gallon. But that isn’t un-ethical is it?

    • Flashy

      Got any docs or a link showing this to be accurate? In that Pres. Obama has everything in a blind trust and has literally every minute of a day planned and scheduled out beforehand, thus little time in his day to review stock and analyze impacts of policies….I’d love to see some proof. or is it another lie trying to deflect ?

      • Wumingren

        Yeah. Obama is so busy every day that he hardly has time for golf.

      • Dorian Douglas

        Romney also has his money in blind trusts. How are his trusts different than Clinton’s?????

        Look up Chicago Carbon Exchange (CCX). It was to be the vessel for “Cap & Trade (look it up). Note that the funds derived (some from US laws, even tho Cap & Trade died his deserving death) are being collected in a Chicago Bank. Note that the President of CCX is then getting his revenue portion deposited in a Carribean bank. Note that this income is not showing up on his tax return. Who’s the Pres of CCX?? Look it up. “Hint: he resides rent-free in DC).

        Can you say “Conflict of interest”? Can you say “blatant tax fraud”?

        Try studying Algebra with Reelman.

        Dorian Douglas

      • Flashy

        OK Dorian…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Climate_Exchange … now what does a carbon exchange , started in 2003, now held publically and which ceased doing carbon trading in 2010 … the link is?

        As for blind trusts and the claim Romney has one. Would you like to place a wager on that? he may have it in a trust, but it’s not exactly ‘blind”…

        It’s not maybe Romney did anything crooked…but there is obviously something he doesn’t want us to know about. Running for President, perhaps we should be able to take a gander at his tax returns…more than one year which was white washed. (would you like his Father’s quote about the type of person releasing only one year of tax returns?)

  • Flashy

    Interesting. Romney is obviously skirting the issue obviously avoiding disclosing something. He handed over his tax returns to McCain in the VP vetting of ’08. It’s slowly coming out he really wasn’t with Bain though he did sign as CEO post 1999 (so either it’s a major SEC violation or he’s lyin’ through his teeth to avoid taking the rap for cutting jobs, closing plants, and outsourcing jobs).

    And he filed for an extension meaning he doesn’t have the latest available in complete form.

    OK…so he may not have done anything outside the law. i doubt he did. But obviously he is not wanting information out there for examination. And he’s scrambling about the bain issue again.

    I look upon Romney a tad different than Bloomberg, mayor of NYC. Bloomberg is far wealthier than Willard. Yet, Bloomberg connects with the guy on the street. Bloomberg will stop, and fit in, at a hot dog stand or talking with the guy slaving on a construction job. Romney? Romney is a rich guy with no connection and no concept of what it is to be less than rolling in the stuff.

    yeah…..let’s see ‘em Mitt. Complete the profile and walk the talk you’re connected and know the plight of Middle America. Not that you’re all legal, but complete the picture.

    • Wumingren

      Romney should just say, “I’ll show you mine, when you show me yours. I’ll release my tax returns, when you release all your school records and other information that you’ve been hiding from the public.”

    • Capitalist at Birth

      You are such a fool. Why are you still posting on this site? Do you think anybody wastes their time reading your idiotic ramablings?

      • JeffH

        ditto that CaB!

    • momo

      Flasher, the only reason we are hearing about Romney’s days at Bain is because your boy Obama can’t run on his record, period.

    • http://None Mike C

      Flashy, the Democrats Obsession with Bain capital is just another sleight of hand trick. Look this way not that way. The masses just might ignore the economic problems like record unemployment and debt. And while the masses are trying to make sense of Bain capital it buys Obama another day on the golf course- time that could be spent fixing our woes.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Brownink09 Frank B.

      Bloomberg is another obama! Want a 32oz. soft drink! How about some fries with that!!!
      Talk about UNBELEIVEABLE (expletive deleted)!!

  • James

    Sorry, but this article doens’t make me like Romney one bit more. In fact, it causes me to subtract points from him. The average Amercian doesn’t have access to banks in the Cayman Islands. We have to take it on the chin while Romney hides his profits from the United States of America. We, the little people, have quite frankly had enough of what Romney and his rich cronies are doing. I wouldn’t vote for Romney on a bet–for the simple reason that he has zero understanding of what it’s like to be one of the “little people.” It’s businessmen like Romney who have kept wages at 1970 levels for the past four decades–and offshore banking is one way they’re doing it!

    • http://gravatar.com/jeepman1 jeep

      So, let me get this straight…you made choices in the land of opportunity and failed to be as successful as Romney, and you blame him? You should also lay some blame on Bush that you suck at making money. In fact, if you had half a brain and could make better business decisions, you too could have thrived in America.

      You class warfare nuts astound me. Your absurd hatred of success is anti-American and indicative of depraved mindset. The only thing that separates you from a thief is the “law”. I have more respect for the thief. At least a criminal is all in, a criminal takes matters into his own hands, and risks his own well being to obtain that which he did not earn. You knucklheads would use the sit back and let the tax code steal money you have not earned “legally”.

      Have fun collecting your food stamps…

    • Kim Simmons

      James, and you thought about just a touch, everytime wages go up, prices go up at the grocery store, hardware store. It is a very viscous circle, and no one actually wins. When labor unions go on strike, they never get back the money the workers do without while on strike. The winners have always been the Union bosses. Just think, if there were no profits, there would be no businesses, the problem is where those in control start making too much – notice Romney worked for free once he left private business. How many billions or millions does one person need? Why can’t they put money back into the system but not as taxes but into the business once they have secured their future wealth?
      Why put money into foreign businesses or banks, kind of simple really, to avoid the over taxation here in the United States which was founded because of over taxation and a government that treated Americans as lower class people.
      Just think if we were all to take a lesson from obama, we all would go out and spend money we do not have or hope to have, budget, we do not need a budget, we’ll just go out and spend.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      So hurry up and start earning money and save some and invest. You may catch up with Romney’s wealth.

      • Kim Simmons

        Nadzieja,
        I did just that, I worked my way thru college and grad school. Went to work for a man who paid me $5.00 an hour which enabled him to sit in his office while I did 99% of the work-FACT! After 7 years he had put himself into a position where I was able to buy him out with him financing the purchase for 7 years. My wife and I had worked for 25 years 10-12 hours a day moved the studio to an addition to our house so we could cut down the travel time. However about the same time the country started a downward slide, then obama came in and made it even worse. Now because my health has been failing for the last 5 years I will be force into disability 1 year before I am 62. Trying to stay off the government disability we have gone thru a lot of our savings, where ever we had them. Since I was the business, I can not sell it, but my wife who is 69, has taken the reins and is trying to continue to make somewhat of a living at least suppliment her social security if not bolster her Social Security.

  • kategray

    The PRETENDER is a PARASITE! He feeds off the ignorant and un-informed. In addition to his salary that WE THE PEOPLE pay, he still gets added perks. When he leaves my WHITE HOUSE he will be a billionaire at mine and your expense.

  • http://yahoo.com Don

    I guess that all you liberals out there don’t consider Obama rich? He makes 400 grand a year for his job and another ton of money on his investments. Take the time to look at your kings finances also. ( And He isn’t even doing his job, he is raping this country and selling it off.)

  • http://www.i-globalinvestor.com Jim

    I’m not a defender of wealth per se. I wish I had wealth to defend, but I am a defender of freedom. There can be no freedom, personal or otherwise, without wealth, without the right to own and use one’s own property as one sees fit. Remove property rights and you have no means to sustain life for yourself or your family. But now the acquisition and accumulation of productive wealth has become officially suspect around the globe.
    For the last 20 years the policies adopted by Canada and allied governments have constituted a stealth war against wealth and against financial privacy. While the free flow of capital is extolled as appropriate and essential, the governments of major nations have tainted the traditional role of banks and banking. As a matter of historic fact, the civil forfeiture laws in the U.S. are beginning to appear in other major countries and mirror in many major respects the Nazi forfeiture laws that were used to confiscate the property of the Jews.
    That great economist, Wilhelm Roepke, once wrote: `It is very easy to awaken resentment against people who not only have money, but also the boldness to send that money abroad in order to protect it against all manner of domestic insecurity. It’s vital that people in their means of existence, that is, capital, still have the chance to move about internationally, and when absolutely necessary, to escape the arbitrariness of government policy by means of secret back doors.’
    There are very legitimate financial reasons for a Canadian, American, European or any other global citizen to `go offshore’. These include avoiding exposure to costly domestic litigation and excessive court damage judgments and jury awards, protection of assets, unreasonable restrictions on foreign investments, the availability of more attractive and private offshore bank accounts, life insurance policies and annuities, avoidance of probate and reduction of estate taxes.
    But those who have followed this prudent course now find themselves lumped together with drug lords, tax cheats, dirty money launderers, disease carriers and assorted criminals. What is legal and legitimate is made to look sinister and evil.

  • OneDamnAngryAmerican

    One thing to remember, IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW, to have an off-shore bank account. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW, to have an off-shore bank account, and NOT PAY YOUR TAXES on the income you derive from those accounts. The IRS rules (law) also state that if you have an off-shore account, you MUST report it and your gains to the federal government. Because of treaties that nobama now has put into place with almost every country on this planet, the average American cannot even rent a safety deposit box in ALBANIA! The only way that the dem-wits knew about Romney’s off-shore accounts, is because he FOLLOWED THE LAW and paid all taxes due to the IRS. How many people in nobama’s cabinet have been accused and found to be true that have NOT PAID taxes due to the IRS? Almost everybody he has ever appointed to federal positions and even to the supreme court! Even geitner, the head of the US Treassury has been found to be a tax-cheat (who later paid up what was due, maybe)!

    My bank currently pays 0.01% on my savings, if under 250K and, if over 250K they will pay me 0.025%. Only a fool would go to college, get an education, have a good job so that he/she could support their family and insure the education of their children, would do the equivilant of putting their cash under their mattress.

    That is why in a recent poll, 83% of American physicians will be closing down their practices and leaving the country. Most will go back to their own countries, some will give up their citizenship and go to others, and the remainder will go to work for the federal government (where they will not have to pay 20K dollars plus each month for liability-insurance premiums {because you cannot sue a public-sector doctor}), OR, become private-private-sector physicians who only work for “cash.”

    ASIB!! “America sure is beautiful,” isn’t it?

    • http://www.gnld-neolife.com Kerry

      Amen. I couldn’t have said it better.

  • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

    Mr Livingston,
    I do agree with changing the tax laws and the banking system.

    But obviously some of us see the world with different colored glasses. I don’t think that painting the Democrats and the White House as socialist is helpful to the debate. Just like painting the Republicans as fascists is helpful either. Although I personally think that this one party system is harboring a new and improved kind of fascism. It does not provide any value mostly because it’s disingenuous.

    Let’s be honest, the political spectrum in America is very narrow. Both the Democrats and the Republicans are almost identical and they are MERELY CENTER-RIGHT. The end results speak for themselves. Almost nothing has changed. The Obama administration is running almost the same plays as the Bush administration. The pendulum swings back and forth and nothing of great value ever changes.

    It’s time we demand public elections to get money and the status quo out of our politics. That’s how we will take our country back from the wealthy and now corporations having their way with OUR government.

    There are 3rd parties but because the status quo also controls mainstream media, and yes this includes the self professed fair and balanced Fox, we never get to hear their message, we never get to learn about alternatives and I believe that is the main reason why we don’t get high voter participation. Maybe if made voting compulsory and offered a reward for voting and made it easier instead of the current practice of making it harder on the guise of fixing a fictitious and non-existent voter fraud problem, then maybe we would get the democracy we deserve.

    On the subject of hiding your money from the government I know I disagree with this crowd that believes that govt is evil and the cause of all problems when in reality GREED IS THE REAL PROBLEM. If you love this country, you should love to invest in this country and government is a very necessary part of how that gets done. The private system will never take care of all of the needs of a country. Let’s face it only wealthy people and corporations can afford to hire the lawyers and accountants necessary to find all of the ways to cheat or get around laws. So what about the rest of us?

    A more intelligent and honest conversation needs to take place, one that changes priorities on how our tax money gets used. Do we want to be a war mongering empire which also hands out massive amounts of corporate welfare subsidies to wealthy corporations that neither need it or deserve it – or do we want to have a healthy, educated, employed population and well managed and cared for common wealth and great infrastructure that we will proudly hand over to the next generations. I vote for the later.

    Both Romney and Obama are in bed with the banksters. Both are war mongers. All of it is based on fear mongering and all of it is meant to keep things always center right. All the time accusing the non-existent and voiceless left for everything that is wrong.

    But there are alternatives if we just had COURAGE. For example there is a green party and they are on the ballots. I really don’t buy in to the fear arguments that if you voted for a 3rd party that you would just let the bad side win. We got Bush and then Obama and nothing has changed. And when I say alternatives I don’t mean the tea party which is just another corrupt Koch brothers organization that is a disingenuous way to drive the republicans even further to the right.

    The country is in bad shape and many people want to blame Obama for it but the reality is, it does not matter who from the Republi-Crats is in charge right now. All Obama has done is maybe kept it all from blowing up sooner. We are on the Titanic, we are headed for Hyperinflation and it is directly related to many decades of wrong policies and ideologies. All of them Center-Right.

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear Eric Bischoff,

      I agree with much of what you have written here. Especially, “I personally think that this one party system is harboring a new and improved kind of fascism.” and “We are on the Titanic, we are headed for Hyperinflation and it is directly related to many decades of wrong policies and ideologies.” However, we are going to have difficulty delving deeper into this subject until we come to an agreement on certain terms. You say the policies are center-right. If the most recent and and current regimes have been/are governing as center-right, what policies would be center-left or left? How do you determine this?

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • jeepman1

        The problems with eric’s comments are varied. But, the bottom line is that there will probably be no center ground from which to find agreement. Big government solutions are, by their nature, experiments that require all to participate. If successful, then everyone benefits. But, if unsuccessful, then we all lose. In a differing view of America, gambling with the lives of others is, well, anti-American. While eric may prefer to gamble on big government, many more of us choose to go with self-reliance. That is to say, that we choose to gamble on our own abilities and strengths. To be successful or to fail based on our own merits. There can never be a meeting or center between eric’s collectivist worldview, and the rugged individualism that is the cornerstone of freedom.

      • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        Bob,
        you ask ” If the most recent and and current regimes have been/are governing as center-right, what policies would be center-left or left? How do you determine this?”

        First I never said recent or current. I believe that being governed by center right has been the case for many decades and administrations. it’s becoming increasingly difficult to know the answer to the question as the left progressives are either dead or have been successfully pushed out of government.

        The list of real progressives today is not very big but a few names quickly come to mind. Paul Wellstone, Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold and now Denis Kucinich, another casualty of the lovely abused practice of gerrymandering. What were their crimes? Voting against the wars and the patriot act, pushing for campaign finance reform and health care reform!

        Admitting or actually being aware of or understanding what the real left progressive issues are requires work as you will hardly ever seer hear any of this on mainstream media where if it ever makes news, it is quickly ridiculed and systematically ignored. No serious discussion ever happens, you openly get selective manipulating sound bites and name calling.

        Let’s face it, Campaign Finance Reform, Money out of Politics, Tax Reform, Reversing Citizens United, Repealing the Free Trade Agreements, Medicare for All, Education for All, Protecting the Environment, Protecting Free Speech, Ending all Wars and Regaining All of our Civil Rights, these are not pie in the sky issues. These are merely worthy aspirations for the greatest nation on earth and we should all rally behind these.

    • Kim Simmons

      Eric,
      I hate to say it but you are right, but too late if Romney is not elected. Romney believes in America, grew up in America, loves America. Obama on the other hand has demonstrated he believes America is the cause of all the worlds problems and has already said he wants to take from those that have to those that have nothing. That is counter to what made America the greatest country ever.

      • jeepman1
      • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        Kim
        the only problem is you get your propaganda from Faux news and you seem to believe it.

        You might want to do some research into Romney and Bain Capital. I just read a story of how Romney went to El Salvador and got seed money for Bain from the wealthy families that also funded the Death Squads. Humm! , maybe he is not such a nice American afterall, maybe he is just another GREEDY BASTARD. Is that what we need?

        Why don’t you vote for the real Americans who have our best interest at heart. Dr Jill Stein of the Green Party for example. Or are you too scared?

        • KDMS

          Eric, I hear and read “stories” all the time, show the proof, independantly gathered proof, hard and clean, very simple. Most of the stories from the media has been in the bag for Obama since he delivered the speech at Kerry’s nomination, you just saw this happen this morning when they tried to tie the Tea Party to this killer in Colorado. ABC started shouting it from the roof tops until it was pointed out the Tea Party member was a 54 year old and not a 24 year old. This kind of propaganda will make it thru the different blogs and to people who will assume the worst without checking any facts.
          News itself is not propaganda, you listen to too much commentary, you need to learn to question commentary’s no matter who is delivering them.
          While it is nice to sit around and sing around the campfire and believe in the Star Trek universe, the facts are it does take a certain amount of greed to build companies to make a profit. How much greed does Romney have, he saved the Olympics-did not take any money, he served as governor, did not take any money, he gives how much to charities each year, 10 -20%? Now compare what Obama gives. What you like to call GREEDY BASTARDS do a lot of giving back to charities and the church of their choice. Now how much of your income do you give to charities each year?
          I think maybe you should start looking with a far more open mind at all sources before you start yelling at any one.

    • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

      Jeepman,
      there’s an awful lot of assumptions that go on in this site. I never once advocated for big government or that govt is the answer. I would settle for smaller govt and sectors that just do their job. I am sure we’ll disagree on how to accomplish that but my side never wins. Therefore your side is responsible. I would bring our troops home close all of our foreign bases and seriously cut back on the military. I would eliminate most subsidies only keeping the ones that are to help develop new industries more like VC money because the private sector does not always do the right thing either. They are not the answer to everything as some of you seem to wholeheartedly believe. Then I would clean up the agencies that are supposed to protect us and eliminate the revolving door policies once and for all.

      The SEC should be prosecuting thieves and Banksters should go to jail. Reagan did it, that is maybe the only thing I respect the man for. The FDA should not have a revolving door policy with Monsanto. They should be prosecuting them. The FTC and the Dept of Justice should be enforcing our Anti Trust laws. There are way too many Too Big To Fail Corporations. The Mondargon model is a much better model than our stupid model of mergers and acquisitions and bigger is better mentality. Defense contractors should be prosecuted and go to jail for the missing Trillions. The FDA should be protecting us from the lies of Big Pharma. Clinical Trials are rigged and people always end up dying. Despicable executive liars who take us into a ridiculous, useless wars to line their pockets with the Carlisle Group should be prosecuted and should not get a pardon. Should I go on.

      I think some of you hate govt so much that you allow this corruption to go on so that it benefits your cause of deregulating everything. Sorry but private business will not do the right thing on their own. The field is littered with abuse, toxins, sick and dead people and thieves and liars. Are we a Christian nation? If so what ever happened to thou shalt not lie, steal, kill, covet. It seems that we spend way to much time doing all of these things.

      Let’s take a quick glance backwards and connect the dots of how the wealthy bought politicians and had their way with our govt and our laws only to benefit the few at the expense of the rest of us. The end results speak for themselves. Steal a loaf of bread in a grocery store and you’ll go to jail. Steal millions and billions from your own banks and no one even comes after you. Gamble and win and you keep the profits. Gamble and lose and the suckers will bail you out. And then some of you have the nerve to blame socialism or the caring for society. The only socialism I see here is the bail out of banksters and who engineered that? And if you think it’s all Obama’s fault, then your racism has gotten the best of you.

      This is a recipe for disaster and that is exactly what happened and some of you fools want to do it again.

      From The Center for Economic & Policy Research

      1978, Marquette vs. First of Omaha – Supreme Court allows banks to export the usury
      laws of their home state nationwide and sets off a competitive wave of deregulation,
      resulting in the complete elimination of usury rate ceilings in South Dakota and Delaware, among others.

      • 1980, Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act – Legislation
      increases deposit insurance from $40,000 to $100,000, authorizes new authority to thrift institutions, and calls for the complete phase-out of interest rate ceilings on deposit accounts.

      • 1982, Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act – Bill deregulates thrifts almost
      entirely, allowing commercial lending and providing for a new account to compete with
      money market mutual funds. This was a Reagan administration initiative that passed with strong bi-partisan support.

      • 1987, FSLIC Insolvency – GAO declares the deposit insurance fund of the savings and loan industry to be insolvent as a result of mounting institutional failures.

      • 1989, Financial Institutions Reform and Recovery Act – Act abolishes the Federal Home Loan Bank Board and FSLIC, transferring them to OTS and the FDIC, respectively. The plan also creates the Resolution Trust Corporation to resolve failed thrifts.

      • 1994, Riegle-Neal Interstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act – This bill
      eliminated previous restrictions on interstate banking and branching. It passed with broad bipartisan support.

      1996, Fed Reinterprets Glass-Steagall – Federal Reserve reinterprets the Glass-Steagall Act several times, eventually allowing bank holding companies to earn up to 25 percent of their revenues in investment banking.

      • 1998, Citicorp-Travelers Merger – Citigroup, Inc. merges a commercial bank with an
      insurance company that owns an investment bank to form the world’s largest financial
      services company.

      • 1999, Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act – With support from Fed Chairman Greenspan, TreasurySecretary Rubin and his successor Lawrence Summers, the bill repeals the Glass-Steagall Act completely.

      • 2000, Commodity Futures Modernization Act – Passed with support from the Clinton
      Administration, including Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers, and bi-partisan support in Congress. The bill prevented the Commodity Futures Trading Commission from regulating most over-the-counter derivative contracts, including credit default swaps.

      • 2004, Voluntary Regulation – The SEC proposes a system of voluntary regulation under the Consolidated Supervised Entities program, allowing investment banks to hold less capital in reserve and increase leverage.

      • 2007, Subprime Mortgage Crisis – Defaults on subprime loans send shockwaves
      throughout the secondary mortgage market and the entire financial system.

      • December 2007, Term Auction Facility – Special liquidity facility of the Federal Reserve lends to depository institutions. Unlike lending through the discount window, there is no public disclosure on loans made through this facility.

      • March 2008, Bear Stearns Collapse – The investment bank is sold to JP Morgan Chase with assistance from the Federal Reserve.

      • March 2008, Primary Dealer Facilities – Special lending facilities open the discount
      window to investment banks, accepting a broad range of asset-backed securities as collateral.

      • July 2008, Housing and Economic Recovery Act – Provides guarantees on new
      mortgages to subprime borrowers and authorizes a new federal agency, the FHFA, which eventually places Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into conservatorship.

      • September 2008, Lehman Brothers Collapse – Investment bank files for Chapter 11
      bankruptcy.

      • October 2008, Emergency Economic Stabilization Act – Bill authorizes the Treasury to
      establish the Troubled Asset Relief Program to purchase distressed mortgage-backed
      securities and inject capital into the nation’s banking system. Also increases deposit
      insurance from $100,000 to $250,000.

      • Late 2008, Money Market Liquidity Facilities – Federal Reserve facilities created to
      facilitate the purchase of various money market instruments.

      • March 2009, Public-Private Investment Program – Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner introduces his plan to subsidize the purchase of toxic assets with government guarantees

      And this is just one industry one sector.

      • macgyver1948

        Eric Bischoff …where is your posts button? I have been writing about what you say here for years. I have been saying we need Government reform not only Congressional Reform and the Oval Office.

        I speak mostly for the need of the FDA to be reformed and rebuilt maybe because they are suppose to be protecting our health but there are others.

        I ask:
        Why does the level of acceptable risks within drugs continue to go up to get them on their coveted FDA approval list?

        Why are there very helpful items on the FDA Black List which have been proven to be helpful without evidence of danger?

        I can go on but I will just go to my favorite question.
        Why is Tobacco still legal?

        I believe the answers to this last question specifically and many more are basically the same. To my last question – Tobacco is still legal for the same reason Marijuana is illegal.

        With all we know, and for as long as we have known, about the extreme dangers of Tobacco – why?

        According to the CDC over 1200 Americans die every day from tobacco related causes and an estimated 49,000 of these tobacco-related deaths, annually, are the result of secondhand smoke exposure. These figures do not include the many thousands who are still suffering from those same tobacco related causes and, perhaps, many of those sufferers are just waiting to be added to the death tolls.

        Why? Who is the FDA really working for?*(see last paragraph below). Well, it could be the tobacco industry who pays loads in taxes and campaign and other kinds of “contributions”. But I think it is but it also goes deeper than that.

        Tobacco products contribute to other secondary industries. Those industries who benefit from tobacco are Big Pharm who makes bundles off of their drugs to fight cancer and heart disease. Good for them.

        The Drug Stores who sells Big Pharm products. I am not opposed to them but they do benefit form the sale of the drugs.

        I am also not opposed to doctors and hospitals but they too benefit from tobacco related caused disease.

        And we can not forget lawyers and… undertakers… You add more if you want but the point is what Government does seems to be a Bain kind of thing, that being to benefit and protect the big corporations/investors with the money. Who is it running now for President is fitting this description? If that guy wins the Oval office The Koch-like will win and we all will lose.

        Deregulation and eliminating government agencies as Koch and their kind want is not the answer but reforming the agencies so they work for our benefit and not the big corporations almost exclusively is very much needed. We need a EPA and a FDA but they have to work as they should for us.

        I also agree with you about the childish name calling. That just widens the gap and we will never accomplish anything.

        *Here is a not so funny joke I some time include in my FDA articles. Who does the FDA really work for? “A recent widow is sitting and crying with her deceased husband’s doctor. He says ‘Mrs Jones, I do not understand why you are so upset. When your husband first came to me he was suffering from cancer. All I did was prescribe the FDA approved drugs and treatments to deal with his condition. When your husband died he had a very healthy medical profile for his cancers. It is clearly not my fault the drugs caused his liver and kidneys to totally shut down’“. I suppose we could say the same about proposed drug treatments for heart disease and others. “…when he died he had a healthy heart”.

        • KDMS

          Macgyver1948: It is not just the FDA, it is the entire alphabet of big government trying to control every speck of our lives.
          Just my observation but of the hundreds of medicines that become available, there are bound to be a lot of people who just can not take them and it could easily kill them. But on the other hand, those same drugs might very well save even more people. Solution is what, take it off the market? That is the problem the FDA has and the researchers who created the drug have. Possibly the solution would be to figure out a test for those that can not take the drugs, but that would be too simple of a solution if it could be found. Or, as you imply, I think, is not to release the drug and those thousands that are helped die or continue to lead the lives they were having.
          It is very easy to sit at our computers and say things like the drug companies are driven only by profits , those greedy bastards! But what is it like to be taking one of this medicines that benefit so much? Just keep in mind on average it takes a very long time to get a drug to market, it use to be 17 years, unless fast tracked by the FDA for a specific reason. That means no profit to support those researchers so who wants to support them, maybe higher taxes? Those are private companies that are funding that research.
          Tobacco, no argument there, but you need to study the history of tobacco to understand why it has been such a part of our economy, now i understand studying history is not something liberals like to do, but I have a feeling you do. Also keep in mind tobacco is what kept a lot of family farms afloat for a long time. It is a habit and a nasty one to boot, and likely if what was smoked was just 100% natural tobacco, I would be curious if it actually caused cancer all, by itself, just wondering. The chemical they use in the field from what I understand, stops the growth and kills the plant. Same chemical they used in Vietnam, I was told.
          I believe the FDA is conducting a balancing act. Unlike the EPA who comes in and just makes rules and regulations to apease the environmentalists of the day. The EPS does not care who or what they are doing to the people because you see, they are the all knowing experts of everything made. They are not protecting the Earth or the environment, they are protecting people. The same people they are putting out of work or causing them to pay higher utility bills. Not to say they do not have a job, they do and should remain, but going over board above and beyond is dumb. The EPA by itself can bring down the entire economy of the United States with out any help from any other agency but the Presidency, just by their regulations.
          Personally I think we need to re-evaluate not just our politicians but the agencies as well, from the ground up.

          • macgyver1948

            KDMS… Maybe you know there are many, dozens or more, “oked” drugs taken off the coveted FDA list every year and many have been on it less that 2 years. They have to wait until the drugs kill enough or maim enough for the drugs to be thought of as a “removal” item. I wonder what happened in all those very expensive trials and tests before they were placed on the ‘to be sold’ approval list. Some drugs work well, many do not and cause other maladies where other drugs are needed. How do you like that cycle?

            I do not know all the answers, I never say I do and I might not know enough to say I know some but I read and try to express how I feel about what I read.

            In the mid 1990s I wrote an article based on two separate investigations done by CBS News and USA Today. They each, separately, sent their people into the FDA as ‘employees’. Their combined findings were shocking. I wish I still had my article and their reports but I since had a total PC crash and lost everything on it except for my written notes. Now I back everything externally.

            Here are some pieces from my salvaged notes that went into my article based on the investigations.
            the FDA has over 500 some contracted “ADVISORS” who have direct financial ties to the Food and Drug companies. We, through tax monies via The FDA, pay these advisers also for their services which is why they are called ‘contractors’. Where do you think their loyalties lie? Anyone thinking “Conflict of Interest”?

            In their findings they stated that the FDA itself makes less than 5% of its decisions and it was found that those advisors do much of the rest, they tell and the FDA and they listen to their “Contracted Advisors”.

            Among those decisions were, not limited to these, what drugs are approved and not, which research projects are funded by the FDA (us really), what goes on labels and what doesn’t need to.

            If this stuff is true it is no wonder we need a total revamping of the FDA and that means firing all the old school and hiring new ones and installing laws to imprison this kind of conflict of interest for both the FDA person and the Contracted persons.

            Who would you, as one of those contracted advisors, if you wanted to continue to receive your higher pay from the food and drug companies and your slightly lower FDA fee, be loyal to?

            I know it takes a very long time for a drug to come to market and that is even more important for the Drug Companies to have their product on the approval list at least long enough to recoup some of their huge expenses. Lives be damned. It is about the money and big business.

            You said at the end of your post to me “The EPS (did you mean EPA?) does not care who or what they are doing to the people because you see, they are the all knowing experts of everything made. They are not protecting the Earth or the environment, they are protecting people”.

            Ok, Well, maybe they do or maybe they don’t but they do some good for the environment for us. But the point is they too need to be reworked for us and the Corporations have to be kept to a decent standard.

            You end with “Personally I think we need to re-evaluate not just our politicians but the agencies as well, from the ground up”.

            KDMS, here you are echoing my words of the last maybe 20 years or so. Thank you, we NEED total Government reform and we need to get corporate money out of our government. The corporate greed is killing us too and destroying what our government is suppose to be along with the corrupt purchased “representatives”. The Founders would not like what the Corporations have done to take over. The Founders very much feared the Corporations… I am not at all surprised.

          • KDMS

            Mac,
            No one in their right mind could even begin to argue against what you wrote about the FDA, but then again…. You are right they pull drugs for a variety of reasons and it does not make sense to put a drug out after the number of years it takes to go thru the different trials only to have it killing people. It can not be about profit, unless of course there is profit to be made when a drug fails and is pulled after killing people. Maybe that should be looked into somehow.

          • macgyver1948

            KDMS… It happens all the time and I believe by design. If bad drugs are approved and placed on the precious list and doctors promote them, more so with “insightful” advertising, there will be plenty of profit until they are pulled. It should definitely be looked in to but the FDA heads have so much power.

        • Proud to be a Believer

          Yes, by golly we do need much more controls absolutely. We need to go back to prohibition as no adult in the USA is in charge of their own fate. Come on get off of it. How about all of the HIV positive people who contacted the disease from homosexual activities, Why should’t that also be illegal. People have to be responsible for all of their own bad habits. What about alcohol and the deaths that causes by drunken drivers. Unreal, I could go on and on and on. Get real. That is why we are in so much trouble as everyone wants the Government to be their brothers keeper.

          • macgyver1948

            Proud to be a Believer (a believer in what?) ,, you wrote a lot in your tidy little paragraph to me. I have no idea where you are coming from with your response but I know what I wrote and it did not include what you are responding to. Are you one of those who takes what those who you disagree with so out of context and replaces everything with your own meanings just to justify whatever is your anger? That is a great sign of maturity. That is why I asked “a believer in what?”. You are a very angry fantasy writer but that is common on your side.

            In response to your stuff. How about the heterosexuals who have contracted HIV with their sexual actives, since you brought in HIV and gays? Aids, in case you didn’t know it, is not a Gay disease, it is a people disease and I suppose some animals can get it too. We have known that for 40 or more years already, where have you been?

            Your kind of out-of-context thinking is so common on your side of the aisle, both political and religious, and it makes no intelligent sense. Neither does your anger. Do you really think it will help whatever is your cause? I didn’t bring any of that stuff up. I am glad at least some on your side of the aisle do not think your way.

            Also I have been saying we need less controls, not more as you intimate I am saying, in many areas but what do I know about what I say since your kind often knows so much better.

            Why don’t you “go on and on and on” and on but don’t get into any adult intelligent conversations because you really look and sound like a TEA bag. Thanks for the laugh though, you very much showed your kinds’ true colors,,, LMAO.

            in response to macgyver1948: by Proud to be a Believer
            Yes, by golly we do need much more controls absolutely. We need to go back to prohibition as no adult in the USA is in charge of their own fate. Come on get off of it. How about all of the HIV positive people who contacted the disease from homosexual activities, Why should’t that also be illegal. People have to be responsible for all of their own bad habits. What about alcohol and the deaths that causes by drunken drivers. Unreal, I could go on and on and on. Get real. That is why we are in so much trouble as everyone wants the Government to be their brothers keeper.

  • needfulthings

    The man is running for president of the United States, Why would people vote for a guy that doesn’t believe OR invest in the USA? Not only does he hide a large portion of his wealth in 3 or 4 countries I’ll bet he has “DUAL CITIZENSHIPS”

    Lets keep in mind that dubya fully participated in the welfare state for the wealthy by passing / allowing money to be hidden overseas. I guess lowering Capital Gains from 20 to 15% were not enough? Keep in mind us normal worker bees still get taxed if we make our money overseas. Greed comes to mind here!

    Of the richest 400 people in America most make their money thru “Capital Gains” and since 2000 have increase their wealth by some 1200% while the real middle class have lost wealth. This wasn’t EARNED WEALTH it was given to them by all of US.

    My President doesn’t invest in America!!!! I don’t think so.

    • Ted Crawford

      It’s better, by your statement, for the current President to take our tax dollars, assuming you are part of the 50% that actually do pay Income Tax, about $39 Billion I understand, one I am certain of is Tasker in Finland, and send it overseas! At least Romney is only using his money and not other peoples money !

      • http://www.gnld-neolife.com Kerry

        It’s useless, Ted. They will never understand. They want to “take the country away from the rich” — and what? Give it to the poor who do not understand business and who cannot even relate to the concept of investing money? Good grief I have never heard such stupidity! But I will say that we need to put some restrictions on our government’s ability to spend at will because they don’t seem to respect how hard it is for us to earn all that money WE GIVE THEM and most of us do not want our money, or even the money that was borrowed from China (without our votes yah or nay), and give it to organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood.

    • macgyver1948

      Kerry says:
      “It’s useless, Ted. They will never understand. They want to “take the country away from the rich” — and what?”

      I have a question for you Kerry since you are a mind reader and I am not. Why do so many on the so-called “Right” , like you here, say you know what we on the left think? In that, as with other things, you on the so-called “RIGHT, prove you are wrong.

      I do not know anyone on the left who would want to “take the country away from the rich”. It doesn’t belong to them alone and it doesn’t belong to the “and what? Give it to the poor who do not understand business and who cannot even relate to the concept of investing money?” as you said? Most of us on the left do not think that way, it would be referred to as either Stupid thinking or programmed thinking. Only very stupid people believe it and only liars would say it, whatever economic strata we are in.

      Kerry, how is your mind reading coming?

      • needfulthings

        Far to much of this countries wealth is in too few hands, and NO they didn’t earn it all,No they didn’t invest in America, they bought politicians and manipulated markets , gaiming the system to put more n more wealth in their pockets. I don’t recall all the numbers but someone on said that the WALMART families have more wealth than 80 million American FAMILIIES! and CON-gress had a “special” day to make sure the heirs didn’t pay what t taxes laws demaned of the Waltons how can this be??? The waltons didn’t earn it, they don’t even work in the company, yet we wanna make sure they keep it ALL some 89 BILLION worth! the 1 / 2% of this country own sump’n like 70% of all wealth and MOST are not creating jobs with that wealth but CON-gress pasted more laws to let’em move/hide it overseas, No Taxes, No revenue to make jobs, build investment in America, just their overly blooted self worth. again they didn’t earn it all , they made it the old fastion way … they STOLE it from all OF US !

        • KDMS

          So Sam Walton did not develop the store we all call Wally World? Why is it you are so jealous of someone making money? To my knowledge you did not do it, if you hate them so much start a boycott, that is what people do now days when they just do not like something like a company making profits. But it was Sam’s family who steered away from his main thrust, that was to sell only products that were manufactured in the USA. But no one yelled enough to turn back. Did you develop Windows or was that Bill Gates, and because you are writing against profits, we can assume you are not Jobs come back from the grave, same with Andrew Carnegie ( a real SOB as the owner of the steel mills ) should we go on? There were a lot of people that came to this country to have the freedom to make money and not have it taken away by governments or kings.
          Yet here we are today because we have politicians who create laws we do not like ( I am with you on this one) we blame those who made the money. Why don’t we just throw out all of the politicians in office today then elect new ones that are beholden to the people they were meant to serve?
          Just look at who is in office that is owned and controlled by two of their Gods, the Unions and the President, who after all was the chosen one who refuses to even allow a vote come up in the Senate because the is pretty sure Obama care would due tossed out because ever 60% of the American people have said they do not want it. WHo refuses to allow a vote to come up in the Senate on a budget, who is blocking almost every bill from being debated on the Senate floor because he knows if he did it would rain on his President?
          I am going to assume you do not work, because if you did then you’d know you did not create the business you are working in. It was not you who took the chance to build something. No you chose to work for someone. If you are working you are being paid, if you do not like the job, leave it, right now we are still a semi free country.
          While I can not and will not argue against unrealistic profits, understand it is the volume that makes it appear companies are making it rich off your back, just look at what petroleum companies actually make off a gallon of oil.
          But you also have to understand if there were not so many lawsuits against companies they would not have to put that into their profit equation.
          45 years ago, my father said we had a big problem coming, lawyers were out to control everything, and they have done just that. Lawyers drive up the costs of your prescriptions, run up the cost of insurance, have taken over Congress ( in general). I am not saying there are not a few suits that are real, but there are a whole lot more that are just going for the gold. But you will not see limits put on lawyers because ether are so many lawyers in Congress.
          Gaming the system, what about the women who have become baby factories just because they found they can live off our tax dollars. Men who knock up so many women and then never pay any support because the women can get on welfare? That is gaming the system! We pay taxes in to the Social Security for us , because we have to, yet illegal immigrants come in and get it without paying a dime into it. That is the primary reason California is going broke besides their being so stupid they do not see the cliff they are going over.
          Just think, if this Congress had been the one mandated with creating and voting on our Constitution, we would still be a colony of England, Harry Reid would have held it up for sure, after all the Unions are far more important to him then the people he is there to serve.

          • needfulthings

            Well you had your say … a little wack-a-dodol though! Said nothing about Old Sam Walton, it’s his family, MOST didn’t contribute to walmart profits, didn’t work in it , just set on the board and collected their inheritance, but that wasn’t enough, they bought politicans to pass special laws so they could keep it all 89 billion there abouts.

            Oil companies make alot of money, We still give’em TAX brakes to this day, YES the HIGHEST profit companies in the world STILL get TAX brakes.

            Lawers are NOT the the problem, are NOT whats causing everything to cost more money, when you lie cheat steal or cause someone harm, kill them put’em in a bead the rest of their lifes its lawers to the rescue. Quit doing things wrong and you will rarely get in legal trouble. remember we have a JURY of OUR PEARS who take the evidance and make the call or another way to put it US !!!

            Next your gonna tell me it’s guns that cause all dee problems RIGHT !

            Women do not think I’ll let this knock me up sooo.s I can get on welfare, where do you get that Sh!t from ?????

            California is going broke cause their stupid, WOW That answers everything, 30 million suffer mass stupidity cause they live along a border country. Did-ja know that they had a MANAGEABLE immigrant problem till ronnie star wars ray gun gave over THREE MILLION INSTANT CITIZENSHIP ~! in the next 15 years ELEVEN MILLION MORE showed up looking for the same deal.. YEP ronnie ray gun gave California their headache.

            Its tit for tat with the senate and the house it’s not just harry here!

        • Proud to be a Believer

          You are just ignorant of the laws and rant on on subjects you know nothing about. It doesn’t matter how many overseas bank accounts one has, or where your income is derived, anywhere in the world, if you are a USA citizen, you have to pay taxes on that money. There are only two countries in the world, the good ole USA and the UK that as a citizen you must pay taxes no matter where the money is earned or interest made on that money. So before you start talking about subjects you know that a twit educate yourself.

          • needfulthings

            I did and I do !!!
            I STAND BY THAT STATEMENT ONLY CAUSE ITS TRUE! YES their are some that did it and still do it illegally, but if you can’t find it you can’t convict, or maybe they just don’t care?

          • Proud to be a Believer

            Again you show your ignorance. Any USA citizen opening (if they can because many overseas banks now will not take any USA citizens because of all the bull they have to do and report to the IRS) an account has to fill out that the bank can release the information to the IRS. There are only a very very few (Cayman Islands UBS is not one because UBS is practicing banking in the USA) of where you can hide anything, only one comes to mind.

          • needfulthings

            Keep in mind mittens, anne and some of his sons are Corporations although you can do this as an individual.

            From Newsweek >

            Under current law, American companies pay a 35 percent U.S. tax on profits they earn abroad. They get credits for tax payments to foreign governments and don’t pay the U.S. anything until they bring the money home. House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.), the top Republican tax-writer in Congress, wants to give businesses an exemption on 95 percent of that foreign income.

            U.S. companies led by General Electric Co. (GE) and Pfizer Inc. (PFE) stockpiled an additional $187 billion in untaxed overseas profits over the past year, boosting their offshore holdings by 18.4 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
            The 70 U.S.-based companies studied hold $1.2 trillion in profits around the world. GE and Pfizer have built up the most money outside the U.S., with $102 billion and $63 billion respectively, according to securities filings. Apple Inc. (AAPL), Google Inc. (GOOG) and Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) were among the companies that increased their accumulated overseas profits by more than 40 percent in 2011.

            From Bloomberg:

            An employee at the General Electric production facility assembles an X-ray device in Beijing, China, on July 22, 2011. As U.S.-based companies expand around the world, their profits remain overseas, legally out of the reach of the Internal Revenue Service.

            BLOOMBERG :

            U.S. Companies Put Billions More Offshore
            As U.S.-based companies expand globally, they keep profits overseas, legally out of the reach of the Internal Revenue Service. Lawmakers from both political parties point to the stockpiling as a symptom of a failed corporate tax system, even while they remain deadlocked over whether the U.S. should impose higher or lower taxes on its companies’ global profits.

            Heres some more welfare for the wealthy go to : http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/02/25/8-ridiculous-tax-loopholes-how-companies-are-avoiding-the-tax-man.html

            SOME COMMENTS From real American Patriots

            It’s hard to think of a more un-American organization that the US Chamber of Commerce. For this collective of corporations, the only acceptable tax is a zero tax. They are happy to benefit from all the advantages of modern society, including law enforcement, fire protection, and the all-important legal system that protects them (not to mention public education that provides their workers). They just don’t want to *pay* for any of it.

            What annoys me is the Tax Payer (Welfare) Subsidies Americans are forced to give to these companies) who take jobs out of the US

            >Sickof Conservatives, 06/12/2012 02:27 PM
            We would not get a lot of business supporting it?
            Well, no doubt, they don’t want to pay for anything.

            PAY ALL YOUR TAXES LIKE THE REST OF US !!!
            Camp is a corporate tool, soon to be voted out in November

            MORE COMMENTS >

            Every individual or corporation that benefits from their access to U.S. markets or participation in the U.S. economy must, through the tax code, support the infrastructure and organizations that provide the economic climate and circumstances that make the generation of those profits and earnings possible.

          • needfulthings

            SO their mr full of self importance and false pride please show us how smart you are?
            I know a CPA the does taxes for the very wealthy, He’s part of a team fore no one gets to do a whole return or see the name for that matter. Well anyhoot if you read anyother news besides fixed nosie you’ve heard about the fact that “MOST WEALTH PEOPLE PAY NO or very little STATE TAXES” This has been going on for decades and my CPA friend been doing this for the wealthy for 25 years.(retired now)
            So that being said HOW DO DAY DOOOOS DAT ?

            I’ll be waiting for your answer Mr Self false pride … look it up ! Give us sump’n other than your OPINION …………………… FACTS will work. I’ll tell you hows its done if you ask.

          • Proud to be a Believer

            Dear Needfulthings. I was only speaking of Federal Taxes as I know nothing of state taxes which are different for each and every state because I so happen to live in a state where there are no state taxes. And by the way, I am a registered tax p repairer with the IRS so I know of what I speak.

          • needfulthings

            Under current law, American companies pay a 35 percent U.S. tax on profits they earn abroad. They get credits for tax payments to foreign governments and don’t pay the U.S. anything until they bring the money home. House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp (R-Mich.), the top Republican tax-writer in Congress, wants to give businesses an exemption on 95 percent of that foreign income.

            U.S. companies led by General Electric Co. (GE) and Pfizer Inc. (PFE) stockpiled an additional $187 billion in untaxed overseas profits over the past year, boosting their offshore holdings by 18.4 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
            The 70 U.S.-based companies studied hold $1.2 trillion in profits around the world. GE and Pfizer have built up the most money outside the U.S., with $102 billion and $63 billion respectively, according to securities filings. Apple Inc. (AAPL), Google Inc. (GOOG) and Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) were among the companies that increased their accumulated overseas profits by more than 40 percent in 2011.

            So they DO NOT pay taxes ….

          • Proud to be a Believer

            Here again you have 1/2 the story. What you say is true about “C” Corporations as there is double taxation with stock holders of “C” corporations. The only way a stockholder can take out money is either by salary (taxable in the year received) or thru Dividends which are taxed in the year received as capital gains) In this light, the Corporation just as you say doesn’t pay taxes until the money is repatriated which only effects the Corporation, nothing to do with the individual. Now take a “S” Corp that is a totally different scenario, all profits or loses revert back to the stockholder in the percentage of stock holding (the Corporation is not taxed) therefore, no matter where the money is housed, and the owners are a USA citizen, therefore taxes are payable in the year they are earned. There is no exception. There have been companies will billions and even trillions (I forget the two examples) that would be very happy to repatriate the corporations taxable earnings and have pleaded with Obama to authorize the payment instead of 35% because none of the money was earned in the USA to somewhere around 15%, they would be happy to pay and move the funds back to the USA but he refuses. Needfulthings, this is free money for the USA and we are talking billions for the US Treasury. I can tell you have never been in business for yourself before and if you were always had an accountant handle your taxes. Fortunately, I did our own, learned the code, worked the season at Liberty Tax which kept me up on all of the changes. So find out the whole story before ranting. I think it was you who as about “Believer” of what that meant. If you do not know, then you are not one of us.who are. I’ll give you a hint, it is a Pauline terminology.

          • needfulthings

            Okay here we go >
            There is significant financial trickery to by pass the so called ruels.
            You have 200 million in an overseas account and you need it to invest in the USA or ??? You CAN do a “COLLATERALIZED LOAN” of 200 million and bring that loan money into the USA .. no taxes

            Merck & Co Inc., the second-largest drugmaker in the U.S., last year brought more than $9 billion from abroad without paying any U.S. tax to help finance its acquisition of Schering-Plough Corp., securities filings show

            Disclosures in Switzerland and Delaware by Eli Lilly & Co. show the Indianapolis-based pharmaceutical company carried out many of the steps for a tax-free importation of foreign cash after its roughly $6 billion purchase of ImClone Systems Inc. in 2008.

            Commercial Paper hanky panky>
            EBay Skirts Cash Repatriation With Bond Issue: Corporate Finance, to explane deeper>
            EBay will probably use proceeds from its debt sale to pay down its commercial paper balance with the majority used to fund share buybacks, said Madison Investment’s Alan Shepard.
            “Issuing the debt is directly avoiding the repatriation tax

            Apple>
            Apple’s big advantage was that the arrangement allowed Apple to send royalties on patents developed in California to Ireland. The transfer was internal, and simply moved funds from one part of the company to a subsidiary overseas. But as a result, some profits were taxed at the Irish rate of approximately 12.5 percent, rather than at the American statutory rate of 35 percent

            So YES money does come back UNTAXED , there are many more ways to this, thru LLC’s / Must have foreign investors in your group, lots of ways, but this gives me a head ache . They make money here and don’t wanna pay for ALL the AMERICAN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT MADE IT POSSABLE. take , take, take and leave.

            done with this subject!

        • macgyver1948

          needfulthings… There are so many in the so-called 1%, and some close to that in money worth, who have earned their money morally and legally and some haven’t. Many very wealthy have, as many of us do, invest their money. In the Bush years bushy dropped the Capital Gains tax down to around 15% so it is a great legal way to make money. The UN-wealthy who invest do it too but they just cannot afford to invest as much and they do what they can it the smaller gains. We shouldnlt be jealous of that. I am more concerned with big corporations do everything primarily for their benefit and protection and there are so many big corporations who are like that and do not care about their employees/associates. I still remember my retiring vice president at Walmart, in his last speech to us say “ I appreciate all the great work you have done for Walmart and me but you have to remember the most important this is it is “all for the benefit and Protection of Big Walmart”. I will never believe this is exclusive to Walmart and as many of us were shocked because he actually said that to us but we knew it anyway and we were the Walmart Global Ethics Office. :-))). Government supports all thins for them especially the TP/GOP.

          • needfulthings

            You said >> There are so many in the so-called 1%, and some close to that in money worth, who have earned their money morally and legally and some haven’t.
            MOST HAVEN’T, money makes morels go out the window, know too many wealthy people, read too many stories to believe that!

            Walmart has broken the law 1000′s of times when it comes to their employees.

            Again I don’t begruge people making money, it’s when they don’t wanna pay their fair share, thats what grinds me.

          • macgyver1948

            needfulthings… You said to me “money makes morels go out the window, know too many wealthy people, read too many stories to believe that!”.

            I can’t agree but that is fine. Money in an inanimate object and that means it has no life of it’s own. The real and misused quote is “The ‘love’ of money is the root of all evil” not money itself. The 10th Commandant “Thou shall not covet” tends to mean if you let your love for something over take you- you become owned by it. Well, that is my way of explaining that commandant.

            If people become greedy it is so dumb to blame money, we should blame their weaknesses and their greed. There is nothing wrong with large amounts of money. What matters is who, or what consumes who. You say you read a lot of stories of very wealthy greedy people. Can you imagine many interesting stories where all the characters in them would be goody-two shoes? Dullsville. As for the people you know, they might be consumed and controlled by the money which owns them if they too are greedy.

            It also seem you are done on Walmart. Please do not make the mistake that Walmart is the only evil (corporate) empire. I worked for them for several years. I was a Business Analysts in their home office. I cam in contact with upper management and execs all the time. If you work in a position you must not only learn all there is connected to it but you must also own it.

            Walmart has anti associate policies in place that they use all the time and some are unfindable. I think that is so it can be used as “plausibly deniable”. If you can’t find it how can it exist? Well, many of these are used often.

            For example “Walmart’s 10% policy” or “The Missing Transfer Policy”. Walmart has a policy for when an associate transfers which states, “For any ‘current Walmart associate’ who transfers, he/she cannot earn more than 10% above what they were making before the transfer”.

            What is funny is that Walmart sends out email to the hourly associates who have Walmart email address and suggests they go to their job site and look for a job they might quality for so they can upgrade their position and their wages. If a job has a pay range of $15 to $21 an hour and you already work for Walmart guess what? If you work in a store and you currently earn $8.60/hour according to Walmart’s 10% policy” you cannot make more than $9.6/hour. If you come from the outside of Walmart and apply for the same job you will receive something in the correct salary range, $15 to $21 in our example, because the operative word in the policy is “current”. After they begin at Walmart they too will be subject to that policy when you qualify for a transfer and try. How does that benefit anyone current associate get ahead?

            There is also one where if there is an argument between a Walmart hourly and a customer of one between a Walmart hourly and a member of salaried management there is no point listening to the hourly associate because he/she will be considered wrong anyway. I told two managers with policies like that why would anyone want to work for Walmart. They just looked at each other and said nothing with their funny expressions.

            I could go on with more but I think you get the point and remember I said these kind of policies, which reflect the apathy of Execs toward toward employees/associate is more common than we know among big corporations. The execs must keep as much money at the top if they want contract renewals with huge pay and bonus raises. Walmart is just so big and so good at what they do.

            Oh, I forgot to mention I worked for The Walmart Global Ethics Office. I left 3 years ago because of an ethics issue after my manager said to me “can you adjust the numbers?” and I hated doing that unethical credibility thing so I am not a fan of Walmart’s either. If you ever were an employee/associate you might know that sometime a “suggestion” from your manager may not be a “suggestion”.

          • needfulthings

            Yep! Corporations are inherently evil due to their mission in life. No not all but MOST. I’ve been in a walmart 3 or 4 times in my life and that was 12 years ago… nuff said. Money was invented by people for people and I believe it’s the second most powerful inanimate object on the planet. The few beautiful rich people I know (and have read about) didn’t start out just to be rich, it was super curiosity, it was a sense of accomplishment , leadership, hard work, super intelligences that got them there. (sorry gawd we are NOT all created equal .. you got that wrong) !!
            Greed is way too powerful for most, more is more, Steve Jobs was an evil genius and stiffed many friends and workers who HELPED him get there, Super leadership and a lot of tyrant thrown in.

            I’m done , nothing more I wanna say.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS IN AUSTRALIA

    Taxation is Theft, however a potential President is not going to be a good example to encourage voters to toe the line if he himself is prepared to invest his money overseas because he has no confidence in his own country, Not a good look no matter how legal it might be, It all got to do with perception and the general media telling everyone about Mitt ROMNEYS Financial dealings overseas which will lose him votes. There are no secrets in politics.

    I recall a Phillipines President Marcos years ago who not only put his own money in to Swiss bank accounts but also plundered the country’s assets and deposited billions into the Swiss accounts or was it just good judgment to help protect his citizens assets by investing them overseas? lol.

    Would Romney also follow in the Marcos example and transfer Treasury assets to the Swiss banks too to save his country’s financial future? A good question but not the makings of the next President. For lots of reasons and many more hes not your suitable Republican President.

    • jeepman1

      Not that we need any advice from down under…but, your ignorance is showing. Better zip your fly mate. The American government has and does invest in overseas adventures since the beginning. In fact, this president has doubled down on overseas investments to the tune of about 5 billion tax payer dollars. But, like his unwise and losing domestic investments (i.e. $500 million to Solyndra), this administration has chosen such fine companies as Soitec. Soitec is a French solar company that lost almost $70 million dollars last year. And, the American tax payer is now propping this French company up with $25 million tax dollars. The list of foreign investments by Obama goes to Holland, Finland, Germany and many more. What’s the difference? You complain about Romney’s personal finance (this isn’t even the business of American’s, let alone some pinko Aussie outsider), while being willfully ignorant of this preident’s wild overseas speculation with my money.

      • http://www.gnld-neolife.com Kerry

        You git ‘er done, Jeepman1. Why all the fuss about what Romney does with HIS earned money and totally ignore the carelessness Obama has exercised with the American’s tax dollars? We should be more upset with what Romney does with HIS money than we are about what Obama does with OUR money? absurd, ey?

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

        Jeepman1 I speak about the individuals Romney not what the Adminstrations do with your surpluses oveseas…its a very complex matter which obviously you do not understand either…that when your government invests overseas it does for the benefit of the USA…either in terms of jobs or services from american companies, and even when the USA gives away aid it is helping American companies produce good to be given away to other overseas…but the money stays in the USA. Anyway im not going to be Zipped or censored by the likes of you thankyou very much…your wanting to be like Mr Putin to censor others from expressing their freedom of speech…but i will excercise my freedoms any time anywhere except in china and russia.

        Your types are the ones supporting socialism me thinks…in sheeps clothing.

  • http://None Mike C

    “Your money has become their money.”

    Well said!

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      You’ve got a point. Everything we have or are suppose to have is rented to us. Don’t pay taxes and you’ll see what I mean.

  • LeConte M. Davis

    13 July

    I think your article makes good points, to counter the idiotic criticisms of Rney, who, after all, is simply an American success story.

    However, you assume that he’s already won the election. One needs to be more circumspect: look what happened to Hillary Clinton, the “inevitable candidate.”

    Romney will help people keep lore of their money, not less.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Who was Romney’s father and what did he do for a living? Seems to me it was something to do with automobiles.

  • Xavier

    Excellent comments indeed. I read some comics from a local English newspaper and laughed so hard…they are making fun of the people as well as the poor narcissist we have in office.

    Should wish to receive a copy of the email, please send me your email address…you will most likely laugh at this…

    californiasailor@yahoo.com

    Oh and please do not worry, just because I am a sailor from California does not mean I drink, or drank, that Kool-aid…

    Love my nation, but it is so full of lazy, fat, idiots these days…..

  • http://survivingurbancrisis.wordpress.com Silas Longshot

    The louder the accusations and bolder the finger pointing by the left usually means the accuser has accounts overseas themselves. Classic democrat party tactic…..’never mind I’m standing knee deep in doodoo, HE’S got a speck on his coat! Looky that!’
    Pelosi, Dumbazz Debbie and all the other squawkers ALL have the overseas accounts.
    surviving urban crisis.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      Here’s how it works. We spend a fortune to “educate” people and once they’re educated enough to make a fortune we plot ways to feed on them. Suddenly nobody wants a educated because living on the dole is easier. Don’t poke your head above the crowd. It may got shot off. Sure there are people who make their money in devious way but now-a-days they seem to gravitate to politics.

      • needfulthings

        Again… YOU CAN invest in foreign companies thru wall street, one of a thousand examples is drug companies (half are not in the USA) but thats where YOUR drugs come from. Pelosi, and Debbie investments have NOT been shown to be “HIDING CAPITAL” like Mittens is. ( I’m waiting for confermation of this) When dubya ordered 200 million dose’s of a flu vaccine (that we didn’t need and were NEVER used ) all dee money went to a FOREIGN company. On a side note that was political pay-back. Most of our politicans who knew this PROBABLY INVESTED and made some money, alot of money.

        gawd you righties are good at twisting language, changing meanings

  • ONTIME

    Thorny path for the rich deemer peckerheads of congress to walk this blather about taxing the rich, Romney out of touch nonsense and unrealistic political jingoism, slang and garbage that comes from their mouths. No one said communism was purty..
    The ludicrous idiot or the Fraud in the WH they selcted by pulling the wool over that bunch of nuts that believed in them is beginning to backfire, Romney impressed the NAALCP, got a standing ovation for his tenacity and plan. BOZO the mouth didn’t even show up and Curly Joe Biden played to a empty auditorioum for the NAALCP. That says a lot, it says that being a deemer chump is not the ticket and that it might be time to dump the racism and elect Americanism in it’s place…….Hallelujah brothers and sisters,I see’s da light….

    • Rasta

      Let’ see how many votes he gets out of that group!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Oh darn, i only have ten fingers…

    • http://www.facebook.com/Brownink09 Frank B.

      I hope it is not an oncoming train!!!

  • Xavier

    Are we repeating history with these liberal idiots? OK then look back in time and see for yourselves

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2470519/posts

    These morons are like roaches from Georgetown U….you step on them but they keep proliferating……

  • tangshuichun

    look at who throwing stone when it should be thrown at George Soros, the Obama crony who also pay no incomce tax. zeech, not a penny to IRS. at least romney pay his fair share. go after soros and buffett, they are the zero person tax payer with billions offshore hideout.

  • DavidL

    Vigilant,

    You believe……..”And who but the wealthy can create jobs, smartass?”

    Setting aside the gratuitous insult, the answer to your question is,….. ready for it?…………….CONSUMERS CREATE THE JOBS!

    CONSUMERS CREATE THE WEALTH!

    • Kim Simmons

      Actually you are skipping a position, the person or companies that created the opportunity to make the product that consumers can then purchase or not. Just look at the steel mill that obama talks about Bain closing. Bain goes in to restructure and tries to rebuild the business, however “labor” costs required to keep the plant open at a profit caused them to shut it down before they lost too much money. Meanwhile another steel plant in another state Bain went into where there is a right to work plant is still was going strong because they could make the steel cheap enough to compete. You can have a great product but if it is priced too high consumers will not purchase it. Labor Unions had no concept of this until they had a seat on the new improved Government motors board. Then they were in the position of having to tell their own Union workers to either accept of lose the plant.
      If you think it is consumers that create the wealth, I have a pile of manure to sell you as a consumer out back behind my barn. I for one did not create the manure, my cows did and in return I feed them and take care of them. But if you do not come and want to purchase the manure what am I to do? I know, your solution, demand the government to give me money to keep it available. A whole lot of BS if you ask me.

    • JeffH

      DavidL, that’s about as ignorant a statement as has ever been said…DUH!

      con·sum·er   /kənˈsumər/ Show Spelled[kuhn-soo-mer]
      noun
      1. a person or thing that consumes.
      2. Economics . a person or organization that uses a commodity or service.
      3. Ecology . an organism, usually an animal, that feeds on plants or other animals.
      ___________________________________________

      job creator
      Noun
      job creator (plural job creators)

      1. A wealthy person; a person with control over sufficient resources to employ many other people

      2. A business, organization, or other entity which employs an increasing number of people with time

      • jopa

        Jeffie; Well I see you are still working on your continuing education that I recommended to you.Keep up the good work.Perhaps some day you will be able to move out of your brothers basement and quit mooching off of his disability check and earn your own dime.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        jopa: Well I see you are still working on your continuing education that I wish i had pursued. As a result, i live in a development with strict rules, where they never complain about my flag, and that Christmas light be not left on display beyond a certain, specified time. Keep up the good work. Don’t follow in my footsteps; You don’t want to be living in a development, mooching off the tax-payers, not earning a dime, where they have strict rules. Trust me on this!

        jopa says:
        July 13, 2012 at 8:53 am

        Another bogus story.If you live in a development that has areas marked as common areas or grounds it is not a persons private property for them to do as they please.The article does not state if they can place a flag or not on their own house as they wish. I live in a development with strict rules and they never complain about my flag, just had one issue when they thought my Christmas lights were up for too long.

      • JeffH

        jopa, that’s what I like about you…if you couldn’t say something stupid you’d be totally silent.

        By the way, I can tell you still haven’t replaced your old collar. The bells are the giveaway ’cause they still sound the same.

    • Vigilant

      DavidL says, “Setting aside the gratuitous insult, the answer to your question is,….. ready for it?…………….CONSUMERS CREATE THE JOBS!”

      Putting the cart before the horse, are we? Consumers create demand, not jobs. You may have demand for a product, but you’ve got NO jobs without an entrepreneur to manufacture or otherwise satisfy the demand. Consumers don’t hire people, companies do.

      What’s that? Yes, I already assumed you failed Economics 101.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        LOL….

  • RichE

    Mr. Livingston,
    How much would it cost to avail one’s self of Romney’s tax havens? Granted it’s available to everyone, but one needs a lawyer, an S corp and a large income stream, that’s not from wages, in order to be cost effective.

    How many have taken your Swiss annuity advice? What’s the minimum? What’s the difference between the Swiss and tax free U.S. annuities?

    What dollar amount is needed to drop from 23% to 19% fed income tax bracket for some one making $100,000 yearly? In reality, if your income is from wages you can’t.

    No need to answer Mr. Livingston, but hopefully some of your followers, that don’t think for themselves, will think for themselves and figure out how available they need to be before they can realistically avail themselves to what’s available.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      RichE: Mr. Livingston,
      How much would it cost to avail one’s self of Romney’s tax havens? Granted it’s available to everyone, but one needs a lawyer, an S corp and a large income stream, that’s not from wages, in order to be cost effective.

      Well, what i’m trying to say, Mr. Livingston, is that, i’m a dead-beat. I never saved, and i never invested, and quite frankly, i don’t think that those who did, should be endowed with the privilege of profiting from all their hard work, and discipline. This simply wont do. Where is the justice and fairness. After all, if it is not available for me, why should it be available for someone else? I hope i made myself clear, and transparent!!!!!!

      • jopa

        Jay; I really don’t understand what your point is.Would you care to explain.Sure my winter home is in a development very pricey and they have rules and regulations.I don’t like to brag however I never had to mooch in my life like some and I do try and put them on the right path for some self esteem and pride.It must be terrible to be a low life.

      • JeffH

        jopa says to Jay, “It must be terrible to be a low life.”

        I agree, I wouldn’t wanna be like jopa either!

  • “Lucky” Puckham

    When you rant about “a sycophantic and fawning news media,” does that include

    CIVITAS
    NEWSMAX
    FOX
    THE WEEKLY STANDARD
    NATIONAL REVIEW
    TAKI’S MAGAZINE
    AMERICAN SPECTATOR
    THE AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE
    THE NEW AMERICAN
    FRONTPAGE MAGAZINE
    THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR
    CYBERCAST NEWS SERVICE
    HUMAN EVENTS
    THE DAILY CALLER
    WALL STREET JOURNAL
    WASHINGTON TIMES
    NEW YORK POST
    MANCHESTER (NH) UNION-LEADER
    DAILY OKLAHOMAN
    ANY MEDIA OWNED BY RUPERT MURDOCK
    and of course,
    PERSONAL LIBERTY NEWS
    plus a lot of etcs., etcs., etcs., etcs.?

    • Xavier

      and CNN, CBS, MSNBC (Yuk), and CNBC…and…let’s see…what other can we site….

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        “Lucky” Puckham?

      • http://PeronalLiberty Alondra

        Xavier, you forgot to name ABC, NBC, Media Matters, Daily Kos, Haffpost, NY Times, Washington Post…

    • Xavier

      How can anyone discuss, or even argue, with a liberal. Is like telling a frog to get out of the heating pan before it is too late….

      • needfulthings

        WOW! Xavier ..
        That was a really good “ADULT ANSWER” and it explaines alot about YOU !!!!
        Facts really CORN-FUSE the right now don’t they.

      • Xavier

        So you are providing confirmation to the matter at hand even more huh?

        It is OK though; I would not expect anything less from those who love to practice stupidity in the USA; hey! what better country to practice communism with laws to protect the citizen? The Constitution? Well, I would gather a good flock of liberal idiots and drop their sorry asses in Russia; or China? Ah there, especially those of African American heritage to see how long they will last?

        My late father used to say; everyone wants to attest to another ruling for as long as it is done in the US of A….(expletive deleted) he called them…and (expletive deleted)they are…

  • macgyver1948

    Sarvis says, “The rest of us are sold the lie that the wealthy will create more jobs for us – ha!”

    Vigilant says:
    And who but the wealthy can create jobs, smartass?

    Hay Vigilant … The point is, and reality backs it up, the wealthy do not create jobs unless they want to. With all the damn help bush gave the wealthy and the big corporations as incentives to create jobs where are they? The people at the top so often use the gifted money and tax breaks as “savings” and not as the incentives as they were meant to be.
    Execs “main jobs” are to grow their bottom lines and to keep as much money at the top as they can to keep their boards and top share holders happy. They can do that, in big way, to keep expenses down and PAYROLL is a huge expense. If they do not do their “main jobs” they most likely will not get the contract renewals they want with the huge pay and bonus increases. Do you see where the execs incentives really are?

    This is why Trickle Down or Reaganomics or whatever does not work. Notice I do not say ‘will’ not. The greed is a stronger desire for the top than the need of those below to those at the top. You have to allow enough to trickle to be of benefit to those below. Romney will fight for the greed because he is of them. The Job killer at Bain and the Job outsource-r as governor will do the Koch thing if, God forbid, he wins the election.
    The above is basic corporate economics. The TP/GOP will fight for them and not the so-called “99%”. And the execs purchase the politicians they feel they can most control and there are many. Just ask the Koch Brothers – the huge GOP puppeteers.

    Sarvis.. you are so right.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    The chances are good that if you ask someone on the street what LIBOR is, they would guess it to be an obscure country in Africa. The reality, of course, is that LIBOR is something that affects everyone, to the extent that it “sets” the interest rate you’ll be paying for your mortgage, car loan, credit cards, and the rate of return you’ll receive on your pension, 401K, savings and all financial instruments. In total, it establishes the pricing of financial products across the world to the tune of up to $800 trillion. Trillion.

    We are now finding out that the entire system has been rigged, enriching the “elect” and financially looting the rest. If you are reading this, you have been robbed, although the corporate media remains silent about who robbed you, how it was done, and which government and non-government officials were complicit and benefited. Why?

    Perhaps the most compelling reason is that when the “average” person learns the depths at which corruption exists between the various banks, governments and government officials, there will be a revolution like the world has never seen. Additionally, they too, along with many elected and appointed officials, have aided and abetted the fraud. Yes, it’s that bad, and it’s about to break wide open.

    LIBOR in simple terms

    LIBOR is an acronym for the London Interbank Offered Rate, which is the average interest rate set by a group of international banks and charged by and between banks. Sixteen-(16) banks set the LIBOR rate: Bank of America, Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi, Barclays Bank, Citibank, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, HBOS, HSBC, JP Morgan Chase, Lloyds TSB Bank, Rabobank, Royal Bank of Canada, Norinchukin Bank, Royal Bank of Scotland, UBS, and West LB.

    LIBOR sets short and long term interest rates for 10 currencies and for 15 different time spans, ranging from one day to one year. The rate is calculated daily by a company named Thomson Reuters, which is the parent company of Reuters News, and is overseen by the British Banking Association (BBA).

    Although based in London, the LIBOR rate impacts all financial products across the globe. In the U.S., for example, there are two “numbers” that play a critical role in our economy: LIBOR and the prime rate. The LIBOR rate particularly affects sub-prime loan rates. Investigation in 2008 established that about 60 percent of prime adjustable rate mortgages and almost all subprime mortgages were tied to LIBOR.

    Through the interest rate process, LIBOR affects investments as well. The daily LIBOR rate is set daily by member banks, and then reported to the British Banking Association
    (BBA), a trade association of banks and financial services companies. It is then made public to the world. Investors make decisions based on LIBOR rates, whether the investment is short or long term.

    Continued: http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/47926

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    What is the difference between Romney and Obama? They are basically the same.

    If you like Romney vote for Obama. If you like Obama…The news media is feeding you with some rethorical differences on fringe social points like “gay marriage”, while for the most part the two are pretty much the same.

    The establishment just plays the same old game of “divide and conquer”, where they are successfully dividing the Americans into camps to create a sense of frustration on one half, while creating “satisfaction” on the other, while in reality ensuring that whichever half
    wins, it makes no difference at all. Ron Paul, anyone?

  • baldmurph

    OK, the Republicans will in all likelihood offer us a greedy psychopath and the Democrats almost certainly offer us a socialist psychopath (if the Supreme Court doesn’t surprise us by declaring the latter ineligible before the election)(but if possession is nine tenths of the law, where does THAT get us?), leaving Ron Paul supporters swinging gently in the wind, we will have an interesting party this November . . . .

  • teaparty13

    All I can say, those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones..Everything the DNC has tried to get on Romney, has boomeranged back at them…maybe they should concentrate on why a growing number of American cities are filing for bankruptcy, but then again they’ll say it’s all Bush’s fault. . BHO called for unity when he ran in 2008, but he has done more to divide this nation than anyone I’ve ever seen..I, for one, don’t like him, not because he’s mulatto, because his policies sux..so if they want to call me a racist, so be it…bye the bye, why is it always the DEMS that bring up race?

  • Thinking About

    Romney sure has some problems and they was brought to the front during the republican presidential run, with those running against him pointing out these problems. It is not a surprise he ran into trouble when running for governor of Mass. and it was found he had indeed filed his taxes in Utah and putting his residency in Mass since his tax return declared him a resident of Utah, proving it is not just the people in the cabinet who had problems with their taxes. He has been for everything and against everything on different statements, not made up but actual clips of him saying so. How do we know which candidate he is protraying who will be president and on which day will one of his stories will be true or not. He raided retirement funds in the companies purchased by Bain capital and in some tax payers had to pick up the tab. Is he willing to pay back the money tax payers had to put out in order to cover for his raid?

    • Gordon

      Constant distortions and debates are distractions that fortify the left. THE MOST IMPORTANT voting factor is that the next POTUS will appoint Supreme Court Justices, either Constitution lovers or socialists. The second most important voting factor is “religion”….. one candidate has a muslim political background. Beyond these two issues, all else is moot and therefore just distractions that are clouding our political eyes.

  • Proud to be a Believer

    Here you go very simply said.

    The folks who are getting the free stuffdon’t like the folks who are paying for thefree stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.

    And, the folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop.

    And the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!

    Now… the people who are forcing the people who pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING thefree stuff that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.

    So… the people who are GETTING thefree stuff have been convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for thefree stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay for their free stuff and giving them the free stuff in the first place.

    We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff.

    Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250years after being founded. The reason?

    The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.

    The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 236 years ago. The number of people now getting free stuffoutnumbers the people paying for the free stuff. We have one chance to change that in 2012. Failure to change that spells the end of the United States as we know it.

    ELECTION 2012 IS COMING

    A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!

  • Kim Simmons

    Macgyver1948, That is very true and it has been a lesson Christians and Jews have learned over the centuries, but my point was that during the last roughly 1200 years, the Muslims, in general, have learned little but gained a lot more hatred. I do agree there has been enough violence and the only thing learned is that more violence gains more violence, but where does it end. If we believe the Koran, it will end when they have converted us or destroyed us all. The Christians and Jews have no conversion process to my knowledge
    When we stretch out our hand to help develop a peace process, our hand is cut off. At what point do we say enough is enough. Only when one has and uses the power to dominate the other side can a side demand a peace. But that will only create hatred as has been shown. Talking with an Islamic terrorist is like talking to a 3 year old, they will not listen to reason, they only hate you. You explain there have been many mistakes and accept responsibilty or a part in the mistakes, but do they listen? No, so you treat them like little children, which is so wrong because we are dealing with an ancient people who have brought the world so much. Coffee and higher math come to mind, just to name two.
    No it is not the average Muslim, but the average Muslim and the muslim leaders allow it to continue. So the hatred only continues.
    So where does it stop? Do we surrender our beliefs to gain peace. I think not, that will not happen. So you have two stubborn individuals in the room who have come to hate each other, problem is more, then more individuals are brought into the room, they chose sides and each are adding and causing their own issues.
    Bottom line, since talking thru the problems is not going to happen and we are still in the same room, something will create the spark to ignite a very serious war where no one wins.
    To date only one country knows the horror of a nuclear bomb. Do we wait until the 3 year old has the bomb to start the war or do we destroy the problem people once and for all?
    Personally I do not hate anyone because of religion or race, but I can not accept their terrorizing the world as they have been.
    So Mac, step into their shoes and tell me how do we stop what is going to happen before it happens?

    • macgyver1948

      Kim Simmons … I like very much what you say here. I will try to answer your questions as I see them so please forgive if something comes across as an offense, I very much do not mean it to. ALWAYS violence attracts its own kind. You said “To date only one country knows the horror of a nuclear bomb. Do we wait until the 3 year old has the bomb to start the war or do we destroy the problem people once and for all?
      Personally I do not hate anyone because of religion or race, but I can not accept their terrorizing the world as they have been.
      So Mac, step into their shoes and tell me how do we stop what is going to happen before it happens?”.

      I really do not know how to stop hate. Hate is so much the opposite of God but it is also, from a psychological point, a brain thought process stopper. I cannot step into their shoes and I cannot explain them. The Koran is taught from different points of view to many different Muslims. I know just pieces of it here and there so I am no expert. I know there are things in it which say, something like “be kind to all infidel and give them a chance to come over to Ala but if they do not then we have to destroy them”. How do you deal with it and since it is out of context to me I just do not know.

      I have known many Muslims over the years because of the Internet and many do not believe it that way. I do belief when people are taught to hate and, especially when they have their version of “God’s” book they learn what they are taught as they are taught it by their teachers..

      I have an example for not knowing how and why other people think, beside my not being a mind reader, but please do not take it as a slander or insult to Christianity, as I mentioned above, because I would never deliberately mean to. It is just that way for many Jews as Christians have their ways.

      This is for your “how do we stop what is going to happen before it happens?”, concerning Muslim terrorists and their Jihad. I have been asked by Christians, several different times in fact, if we Jews cannot accept Jesus as anything except as a man from history how do I explain ‘Jews for Jesus’ or ‘Jesus for Jews’. For that question I have always said to get the answer to that you would have to ask ‘Jews for Jesus’ or ‘Jesus for Jews’ because I do not understand them or their reasons, only they do. For Jews to worship or pray to any entity other than the single entity that is God would be a mortal sin. The first two Commandants show that and the Golden Calf Story tells so much about that as does several parts of our bible.

      So if I cannot slip into the shoes of ‘Jews for Jesus’ or ‘Jesus for Jews’ I am not sure I can approach the shoes of a severe hate I cannot understand. I do not know where it will stop. Maybe when the Messiah comes or WW3 or who knows? I feel Christians and Jews should just stay heartily with how they respectively believe and if we are attacked and killed for not converting to Muslim at least God will be on our side for the passing. I do not know how else we can do it other than to defend ourselves if we are attacked. We can only be ourselves and be helpful to others as we can.

  • Robert Rashbrooke

    I read a ‘report’ that stated that the US Government, its properties and lands included, was totally owned by the banking industry, starting in about 1860, due to the debts run up by the government. As a result of this indebtedness, the Federal Reserve was created BY THE BANKERS and accepted by the politicians in 1913 so that this fact, which may have led to mass rioting, was not made public knowledge at the time, nor has ever been officially recognised.

    Since the Federal Reserve owns America, all political parties owe their allegiance to it, not to the electorate. Surely this fact explains why laws, and especially tax laws, are written to benefit the richer element of our society.

    The idea that Representatives and Senators should become State employees and not Federal employees would go a long way to redirecting that allegiance, as well as providing a large degree of control over the electees behaviour. But to not provide a pension for a short term stint as a public servant would not be inducive to anyone contemplating taking on the responsibility.

    Once the direction of public employment is changed to make it more electorate friendly, only then can some of the worst anomalies in the laws be removed to make if more equitable.

    • needfulthings

      Nice one Robert …
      there is alot of truth in what you said, but do ya think anybody got it?

  • Carl Manning

    The real issue being hidden here in all this political smoke-n-mirrors is that Romney is involved in the Bush Sr. Cabal that is hiding their illegally obtained money all over the globe. The real story is this money was obtained illegally from a wealthy philanthropist by the name of Ed Falcone. WHY DO YOU THINK ROMNEY HAS DECIDED NOT TO REVEAL THESE TAX FORMS??? All of the MSM won’t touch this. It is an international fraudulent banking scheme involving trillions of dollars and most of DC, many ex-Presidents, the current illicit President, JEB Bush, Joe Biden, Geithner, Bernanke, Greenspan, and many Senators and Congressmen and possibly even Chief Justice John Roberts. It involves key middle men and signatories for these vast sums of money. Romney is up to his eyeballs in this one. For more info, go to tdarkcabal.blogspot.com. These investigators refer to themselves as the White Hats. They have been following the money laundering transactions of the criminals in the District of Criminals and the Banksters on Wall Street all over the globe. You really have to wonder just how many officials in our government are on the take when you read what these guys have uncovered. It is truly mind-boggling. I have no doubt in my mind that Chief Justice John Roberts is in on this deal. It was rumored that he had over a billion dollars in the Vatican Bank along with billions and multi-millions for many others on the take in this grand illegal money-laundering scheme. This is the same money the CIA uses to fund its black ops. Remember when Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders were able to partially audit the FED and FOUND OUT 16 TRILLION WAS MISSING FROM THE BOOKS?!?! DID THE MSM PURSUE THIS CERTAINLY NEWSWORTHY ITEM??? OF COURSE, NOT!!! THEY BURIED IT!!! Is this why they treat Ron Paul like the plague??? THEY KNOW WHEN RON PAUL GETS A FULL AUDIT OF THE FED WITH A VOTE IN ABOUT A MONTH FROM NOW, THE CRAP WILL HIT THE FAN!!! Well, these guys have the documented proof on their website showing Ben Bernanke authorizing three bank wire tranches(installments)of $5 TRILLION DOLLARS EACH to HSBC of London – all of which were backed with completely fictitious amounts of gold from the Bank of Indonesia. If this scam ever sees the light of day, it’s lights out for the District of Criminals, the CIA, and most of our ex-Presidents, the current impostor, and Romney will be thrown in jail. They have already tried to kill Ed Falcone three times. That’s how serious this is!!!

  • jopa

    There was a time when all Americans paid their fair share.However the filthy rich had the ability to send lobbiests to Washington with briefcases full of money to rig the tax loopholes in their favor.Now the corporations and the rich pay a small percentage of their income into taxes and the middle class folk have to make up the differance in order to run our military and government.This kinda makes Mutt Romney a modern day Pirate of the Caribbean.For an individual to be so bullheaded about his tax returns there has to be something very immoral or illegal in there content.Would that be something if we elected a felon to the Presidency.Some brain dead people talk about trickle down economics.That’s what we have had for the last ten years and it doesn’t work for us but it does work for the Cayman Islands, the Swiss, the folks in Luxembourg and everywhere else the rich hide their money.

    • Proud to be a Believer

      You are an idiot. All you lefties keep going after Romeny on his tax returns and no one in your group ever has nor will go after the Liar in Chief on any of his stuff that is all secret even though he has been subpoenaed and still won’t produce. GET REAL.

    • KDMS

      I really hate to break it to you jopa, but those 1% actually pay almost all of the Federal taxes. But I will agree it is time to eliminate the lobbyists from interferring i.e. paying off the individual members of both houses. One way to do that would be to establish term limits on all elected officials.
      Why is it we just have to know where Romney has put his money, he has to pay taxes here in the United States and as long as it is legal and the IRS does not have any objections, meaning he is with in the law, why are we so jealous that we want to tear Romney apart?
      YOu are falling for why Obama and his people are calling Romney a felon, to get very brain sea individuals to buy into their lies, and trust me they know they are lies. Even your liberal newspapers are saying there is no truth in what Obama is saying.
      SO trickle down economics do not work? Interesting, when is the first time or last time anyone was able to get a job from a person who had nothing? Government creating jobs outside of government itself falls way outside any rationale as to how this country became the greatest country ever to have existed. Now however since we have embarked upon this social redistrubtion of wealth, we are becoming exactly like your friend the Soviet Union, or China, where everything was / is controlled by the government. Even the Chinese figured out they needed to introduce some of what America great and allow individuals to get out and start creating individual wealth or they were going to fall like the Soviet Union did.
      But you see we have leaders now who are more interested in creating their own individual wealth and a President who has promised everything under the Sun, but has done very little, infact lied a lot directly to the American people.
      You go ahead and believe what you want, your president is going down a path that will ensure the destruction of the United States as it is today. In 10 years, if Obama has his way, you will be on the side that will be screaming about the conditions you helped create by supporting this idiot Obama for president.
      One more thing, if you had millions of dollars, would you leave the bulk of your money in a country that was going to self destruct where you would lose it all?
      No I think not, which is why everyone has the ability to put money outside the United States, not just the wealthy.

      • needfulthings

        Again ….
        the 1% have more money than than the bottom 150 million people in the US and they have benefited much on dubya’s phoney wars.
        True .. nearly 45% pay no FEDERAL TAXES, in that 45% thee majority are retired and have lower incomes (i think they paid enough in their working life time) STUDENTS are another big portion of that (most students ain’t gots money) and the rest ( I understand 10%) make so little money they fall off the taxable income level. lots of those are the working poor, you know (they serve you at burger biggies) the 19 / 20 year old with a kid to support and daddy skipped town.

        It’s a percentage of what is taken from you, the rich pay little state taxes the retited and working poor loose 15% of 20 / 25 grand wage Thats alot of money! Now the 1% lets say make 10 million a year …… taking a couple million from them ……… humm I think they’ll make it??? I mean after all government welfare for the rich is much higher % than all the poor combined.

  • jopa

    KDMS Your last line saying everyone has the ability to put money out of the US is crazy talk.The vast majority of Americans are having a hard time putting food on the table and buying gas to go to work much less sending money overseas.After the near death of America after Bush the people still working have to consider themselves blessed..The average wage of the middle class has been stagnant for the last 20 years and four years of Mutt Rummy will doom this country.The folks with his mindset feel the only way to get the jobs back in this country is to pay Chinese wages and have Chinese working conditions.I hope your grandchildren like rice three times a day,for that may be in their future.When the Mutt ran the Olympics he even outsourced to Burma for the uniforms.Mutt Rummy is not the Solution he is the Problem.

    • KDMS

      jopa, you and I plus all Americans have the capability to put money off shore, but having the money to actually put it overseas is another matter. You have just shown you are extremely jealous of anyone who has made any money.
      I know where the wages have been the last 20 years, I am actually living it now, but common sense dictates you have to look at the big picture no matter what your living standards are.
      As you likely realize I am not for Unions. But Unions have a place in that they protect the workers or they should. But not all workers should be put into one bucket, if there is a screwup in the union force, the Union should take care of the problem and not protect them which is exactly what they do. But because the labor costs have gone up so high if the business wanted to continue to stay in business they were left with no other choice but to go overseas, wherever they could. If you were in the same boat you would do the same thing. I know people who developed products and insisted it be manufactured in the United States. Everyone told them to go overseas, they didn’t and the product became so expensive it did not sell. Either laborers understand they need to take less to have a job, or they will be without a job, that is unless Obama gives it to them. Then start thinking who will pay for it, we all will in the form of taxes, much higher taxes that will not just be lower , middle and higher wage earners but also taxes put on everything you consume or purchase.
      Because Romney does know the problem as it is very obvious Obama does not, he would be in the position to make things happen for all workers in the United States. He will not talk about government creating jobs but he will talk about government creating opportunities. The Unions will have to get onboard or get out of the way so their people can get back to work.

      • macgyver1948

        KDMS.. Well, I cannot say Obama is the best thing ever for us but there is a world of difference between him and Romney although they are similar in political ways. It is so sad that we are potentially choosing between the two polarized factions but we are. We (those who stick with the two big parties) will be choosing between to different forms of Capitalism.

        In this corner we have Mitt and the Corporations and what is only best for them… In that corner we have Obama and his trying to balance the needs of the middle class and the corporations without destroying the middle class. It is so sad but that is what it is.

        Romney is not for us, the UN-wealthy. He doesn’t even see us. Why do some people jump so quickly to assume about those they disagree with? Many of us on the left are not jealous of money. Many of us want money. Many of us “Americans are having a hard time putting food on the table and buying gas to go to work much less sending money overseas”. The wealthy can afford to hire great tax and finance advisors so they get better advice where we can afford to do so. .

        The country needs the jobs people like Romney/Bain has destroyed all for their and their big inverter’s profits. We need the jobs people like Governor Romney outsourced and we need livable wages. I do not care who did these things for us we need the jobs back and we need the jobs GW Bush promised with his great incentives when he gave the very wealthy and the big corporations his big gift. Where are those jobs? When corporations use their supposed incentives as savings there is no Trickle Down and that is why TD will not work.

        Simply put, The Romney’s are purchased by the Koch-like for the purpose of giving the big corporations what they want and it is killing us, it has for many decades.

        Simple Corporate economics. *1- increase the bottom line. 2- keep as much money at the top as possible. 3- to accomplish #s 1 and 2 keep expenses down and do that the easiest ways possible. 4-Payroll is the easiest expense to control so use it. 5- Buy a politicians to help you with 1 thru 4 (huge corporate money in campaigns is one way). A major rule of the corporations – Everything is for the benefit and protection of the Corporation.

        Where are the incentives for Executives to “create” jobs especially when so many corporations can if they wanted to? Many big corporations are running in the black. Do they want to or is there another reason the Execs are not creating the jobs in the vast numbers that are needed, or keeping the jobs in America…?

        The Executives main job is (item 1 and 2 above*) using whatever tools they can. For the execs to enjoy a nice contract renewal (many execs get several $millions in both annual salary and bonus increases, some less but they want it) they have to keep their boards and the top share holders very happy. “Where are the incentives for Executives?”.

        You said “Either laborers understand they need to take less to have a job, or they will be without a job, that is unless Obama gives it to them”. If the GOP gets its way, and I say that because they are more obvious about my (#5- Buy a politicians to help you with 1 thru 4 (huge corporate money in campaigns is one way)) what if workers cannot afford to pay rent of buy food on what is to be their salaries? So many GOP are fighting to keep minimum wage down as they fight to eliminate it. Guess who would benefit from that…

        Do some math with me here. If wages go down and prices go up as expected what does that equal? Would it pay to get up in the morning, eat rotten toast and put gas in your car just to go to a job which doesn’t pay worth a damn? Maybe it would cost less day by day to stay out. However little an employer pays you they still might expect 200% effort out of you. I remember one company I worked for, a plastic injection molding company, the owner said one time “I want 110% effort from you” and another time he said “I want you to work as if you were an owner”. This is by so far not unique to that company. I could tell you Walmart stories that would scare the employee/associate out of you but not now.

        Simple put, we need a government that will represent all of us equally and that very good start is to get all corporate money out of government.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    It’s an interesting fact. There are more millionaire democrat congressmen than there are republican ones. Now I’m not a Republicrat but I know any law they pass always has loopholes in it to protect them from the laws they impose on us. Of course Romney takes advantage of them. He’s a DC politician isn’t he? The Republican herd is being taught to believe Romney’s better than the dream man Obama. Not in my book. His resume’ stinks: Period. Is he more cunning than Obama? Maybe. Is he the key to turning America around economically an morally? I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya if you brlieve that. Is he walking lockstep with the people controlling our live and fortunes? Now we’re talking. All this and we shelved the man that could of made a difference. What the democrats call the republicans and the republicans call the democrats is probably true so why vote for either of them.

    • needfulthings

      “There are more millionaire democrat congressmen than there are republican ones”

      I’d like to see proof of that one, not that it matters I just wanna see what fox entertainment channel you got that from?

  • jopa

    There is bill before the Senate to be voted on Thursday that would reduce the incentives for companies to ship jobs overseas.We are actually paying with tax breaks for the corporations to take away American jobs.I am willing to bet any amount the Republicans will block this measure in their quest to destroy America.

    • needfulthings

      You bet Jopa , but it gets worse … read on >

      The Washington Post recently reported that some of the companies Mitt Romney’s firm Bain Capital invested in were “pioneers in the practice of shipping work from the United States to overseas call centers and factories.” Even more troubling than his business record is his platform as Republican presidential candidate, which includes a policy that would encourage and further accelerate .

      • KDMS

        Needfulthings, You need to go to reading, they found that when Romney was in control of Bain, no job was shipped overseas. Over since he had no control when he left in 1999, Bain has shipped jobs overseas, guess who is in control and is doing just that democrats who also say no job was shipped overseas when Romney was in control. You see you have fallen for the Obama lies, if you bother to READ other then your main stream media, you would see this. But then you take what obama says as golden.
        If it was so important to the survival of our country I would back up and not say anything so you Obama pets would have your way. But you see, going down the Obama path means he gets to burn the Constitution and our Bill of Rights. While you and most of your liberal buddies might be OK with that, I am not. Right this minute there are numerous Bills and laws in Congress and the UN that will do that, and your Obama who has his side deals with Putin and who knows who else will trade power for being in office. At least with the conservative side we still have a soverign country. Remember your Obama wants and has dictated this policy to allow illegal immigrants in to take your job. Plus if you read what the Supreme Court ruling on the AZ border laws you will read that basically they say States are no longer sovereign because states in effect can not protect their own borders.

        • needfulthings

          Oh I did and ya gotta have your head in the sand not to notice the controversy of when mittens actually left bain. His own FCC filings show him sole owner and still CEO in 2002, the story ain’t over yeah! He said he’s retired now but thats kinda of hard to do when your sole owner and still draw PROFIT from the company?

          • KDMS

            Obviously you have never been in business or been involved in selling a business. When you walk out, you walk out, yes there are profits, why would you go into a business if not to make a profit. I wonder how long you’d stay in business if you did not have a profit. Guess what, they likely paid him off with not only cash but shares in the company. I know I have shares of a few companies, does that make me responsible for what they are doing. In your world yes it does, but in the real world it does not.
            Wake up and start reading, even the democrat pundents have said there is nothing there and the White House knows this but they are deliberately saying these things so idiots will believe what they tell them

    • KDMS

      jopa, I would debt you are right but for a completely different reason then you are saying. Watch and see what that Bill is attached to. That is a tactic both sides use to get their primary Bill passed. That is the reason a lot of Presidents want line item veto, then they could veto a specific bill passed with in another Bill.

      • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

        KDMS… You speak the truth and it is the reason line item veto is often needed. What you say is how Congress votes to give themselves raises now and then and we do not even hear about them if we do not look for it in the bill or someone let’s us know. We are the Government’s bosses. I’d love to vote myself a raise but I bet I never had a boss who would be happy with that.

    • Baldmurph

      Details?

      • macgyver1948

        Baldmurph… I know of the bill you speak of, just wasn’t sure when it would come to vote but I knew it was soon. Although I agree with you when you say “the Republicans will block this measure” I do not agree they will do so for the purpose of destroying America. After all, they might want to continue to live here. Blocking bills like this will help weaken America but to make claims as “their quest to destroy America” is too generalized and subjective and it assumes too much of others. It sounds to much like what many TP/GOP supporters do because they don’t know what else to say of those who do not agree with them.

        I would more believe the Republicans will block this bill because it will not support the Corporations’ wishes. It is a bill I believe will help the country but I also believe the TPed GOP is in business solely to benefit and protect the Corporations so naturally they would oppose bills such as this.

        This bill is just not the ‘Bain’ thing to do.

  • Palin16

    With all the crap the government spends OUR hard-earned money on, I don’t blame anyone for sheltering their money. Do we really need 23 personal assistants for Michelle Obummer, one of whom “earns” $170,000 a year? Do we really need 40-80 staff members for each of the 500+ members of Congress? What do these people do all day, play solitaire or gab on their cellphones about what they ate for breakfast? If it were up to me, all of these positions would be eliminated immediately. Each senator could have 2 secretaries making no more than $30,000 a year.

    • Proud to be a Believer

      The answer is simple. We let them. No outrage. We complain but have done nothing about it that is why we are where we are.

      • Baldmurph

        Point.

    • macgyver1948

      I guess the number of the personal assistants a First Lady “needs” depends on the First Lady.

      Total Personal Staff members for recent first ladies paid by taxpayers:

      Mamie Eisenhower: One– paid for personally out of President’s salary.
      Jackie Kennedy: One
      Roseline Carter: One
      Barbara Bush: One
      Hilary Clinton: Three
      Laura Bush: One
      Michele Obama: Twenty-two
      Nancy Reagan: twenty

      We pay to much for Government and their is a lot of waste, not just in the personal assistants’ area.

    • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

      First of all Palin16
      The first Lady of the United States’ name is Michelle Obama.

      You obviously have no respect for the position and you are rude and probably a racist too. But I guess what is one to expect from someone who chooses the Palin moniker!

      • macgyver1948

        Did anyone mention on this thread that Nancy Reagan had 20 personal assistants. No other first lady since President Eisenhower did any have more than 3 as I remember except Nancy and Michele. I guess it depends on the first lady.

  • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

    I also recommend the movie “Inside Job” I just watched it again the other night.

  • http://www.yahoo.com jeffreyliakos

    I don’t understand Democrats’ obsession with the fact that Mitt Romney or anyone else may have offshore bank accounts in areas like the Cayman island or anywhere else. As far as I know, there is no law prohibiting that so long as the information about their taxes is filed in a timely fashion and the amount earned is reported honestly. There is absolutely no logic to this obsession that liberals have with how much money people earn.

    • macgyver1948

      jeffreyliakos… There is no “obsession” on the part of Democrats concerning Romney’s off shore accounts, just your side’s perceived “obsession”. Having off shore accounts, as you say, is legal but it is a great place for unscrupulous people to hide money and report less. Germany is looking into all foreigner bank accounts, for the purposes of tax evasion, for just that reason and they will report their findings to the foreign account holders country. I believe Romney is in there too so we will see when Germany finishes their audits but the point is we just do not know about Romney and total disclosure should be the thing for someone running for office.. Running for President should mean nothing is hidden and all is above board. All sides should be honorable about themselves so I am not saying it is only for Repubs to do so. Again, no “obsession”, just inquiring minds. I feel the same about total disclosure of campaign contributions but that is another story that pisses me off and should all Americans.

      • http://www.yahoo.com jeffreyliakos

        Actually, there is. Liberals don’t really give a damn about the poor. Their sole agenda is a desire for more control over the lives of people. Anybody with good sense knows this, so your position is simply i valid. Naturally, you omit the fact that Mitt Romney pays a 15% tax rate on long term capital gains.

        • macgyver1948

          jeffreyliakos… If you think you and the ones who tell you to can generalize like this, with you guys all the times say Liberals feel this way or that or what wee really think then you truly are delusional. In this case, with you saying “Actually, there is. Liberals don’t really give a damn about the poor. Their sole agenda is a desire for more control over the lives of people. Anybody with good sense knows this (jeffreyliakos…what are you, some kind of second rate comedian with no reality to your attempt at your jokes? This is typical too of your side), so your position is simply i valid. Naturally, you omit the fact that Mitt Romney pays a 15% tax rate on long term capital gains” Yea, the silliness is worth repeating to make the point.

          And as far as my omission of the Capital Gains tax for Romney. I am so sorry I didn’t mention everything there is to say on the subject but I didn’t feel everything was necessary. But, as it so often happens with the Right, you have to show your hate by brti8nging up something that wasn’t mentioned but also wasn’t pertinent with that, my, comment at that time.

          You Right guys, yeah I am generalizing now, just seem to want to grab any trivial c*rap to express your hate for those who will not agree with you. Liberty means we have that right no matter what you have been told to believe.

          I may have just figured most of us know the little bush lowered the capital gains tax to 14.999% for those who will benefit the most from that lowering, his wealthy friends. Yes, I know we all can benefit from it but the more you can afford to invest the more you benefit from CGT. And we know Romney chose to not take a salary when he headed up the Olympics and while he was governor but he lived on that 14.999%. Do you really think that greedy B…… was really benevolent for doing that? He wasn’t receiving a salary while running for president either but then too he was saving a bundle on taxes and still living on that 14.999%.

          As for off shore holdings, that is a great way to hide earnings as well and we may never know because he didn’t disclose enough of his tax returns as his daddy did while he ran for President. What was your percentage? I know mine and it was nicely more than 14.999% and I made a whole lot less than the mitten, the man his oldest son said “Dad was the least of any person I Know who wanted to be president”. I guess winning just wasn’t in the mitten but at least he paid less taxes than so many of the rest of us.

          By the way, you and many like you haven’t got a clue what Liberals really want or “don’t really give a damn about…” and you have to be kidding or programmed with your “Their (meaning Liberals) sole agenda is a desire for more control over the lives of people”. You guys just puppet what you are told to say, and so nicely with anger and hate. Good for you but don’t you ever get tired of being so wrong about us (generally speaking)? :-).

          That was fun for me, was it fun for you? LOL…

      • http://www.yahoo.com jeffreyliakos

        Your position is invalid, not to mention inaccurate.

        • macgyver1948

          jeffreyliakos… I guess because you are of the Right you know you are right. Nothing else makes sense so of course my “position is invalid, not to mention inaccurate”. You just continue thinking that way, just as you are told.

    • Baldmurph

      The point: it is legal. Many people do it because it IS legal and it saves money to generate further income or for other reasons which might otherwise be paid in taxes. People itemize their tax returns when they can for the same reason. If you don’t think it is “fair” then petition your Congress (who follow the same rules) to change the rules.

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