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The Debate Over Illegal Immigration Gets Even Crazier

June 4, 2010 by  

The Debate Over Illegal Immigration Gets Even Crazier

Remember the expression, to swallow a camel but choke on a gnat?

That’s how I feel about the reaction of several people who commented on what I recently wrote about illegal immigration. The first column was called Arizona, Si! Obama, No! You can click here read it. The second ran a week later and was titled Anchor Babies and the Illegal 14th. If you missed it, click here to read that one.

The three most important points I made in those two successive columns were:

  1. The Federal government has refused to protect us from an illegal invasion. Because of this failure by our national government, Arizona had a responsibility to its citizens to act.
  2. Of all the crazy aspects of this situation, the most insane is our policy of granting immediate and automatic citizenship to any child born in this country—even if both parents were illegal immigrants.
  3. The justification for this absurd policy—and many others that have allowed the Federal government to expand dramatically and dangerously—is the 14th Amendment. My research has convinced me that this amendment was never legally ratified.

Now those are some pretty big issues, wouldn’t you say? We’re talking about a president who flatly refuses to enforce the law. About an absurd policy that creates instant citizens of the offspring of illegal immigrants. And about a conspiracy—there’s no other word for it—to twist and distort our most important legal document, so it can be used to enslave us.

I thought that most people who read those columns would respond to one of these truly momentous points. I anticipated receiving some interesting, intelligent and well-informed arguments—some agreeing with me, some not.

And while there were many comments that fit that description, there were a surprising number that did not. One of the most mind-numbing replies I’ve ever received to anything I’ve written for Personal Liberty Alerts came from a David Warheit, who argued:

“Has the legality of the 14th Amendment ever been ruled upon by the U.S. Supreme Court? Of course it has, in hundreds if not thousands of cases. Every single case decided by the Supreme Court which cites the 14th Amendment serves as a ratification of its legality.”

How do you like that for circular reasoning? Because the Supreme Court cites an illegal amendment to justify even more unconstitutional encroachments by the Federal government, why of course that means I’m wrong, doesn’t it?

In my United States history courses I was taught that our justice system was one of the most unique in history because both sides to an issue got to present their best arguments in open court. They were encouraged to cite all of the evidence they could find, with the very best witnesses they could subpoena, before an impartial jury or judge rendered a verdict.

But according to Mr. Warheit, we don’t need any of that. Forget any evidence; ignore any arguments. Why, if the Court cites the amendment in a ruling, then it must be legal, proper, and oh-so constitutional. Sounds like an argument by the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, doesn’t it?

But the absurdities surrounding this issue don’t stop here. We also have the incredible spectacle of the most powerful lawyer in the land, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, vowing to use the full resources of his department to get the Arizona law declared unconstitutional—while at the very same time admitting, in sworn testimony before Congress, that he hasn’t even read the law!

That startling admission came during testimony before the House Judiciary Committee. Rep. Ted Poe (R-Texas) offered to loan the AG his own copy of the Arizona law. After all, as he noted, “It’s only 10 pages long—a lot shorter than the healthcare bill.” There’s still no word on whether the country’s top lawyer has read the bill he so vociferously opposes.

Meanwhile, ABC News reported that State Department officials engaged in talks on human rights abuses apologized for Arizona’s tough new anti-illegal immigration law—to the communist Chinese! Yes, you read that right. Continuing President Obama’s policy of apologizing to every tinhorn despot and Marxist dictator anywhere for his country’s “failings,” your country has now officially apologized to the leaders of one of the least free nations on earth for the actions of a state that is only trying to enforce the law.

Adding insult to injury, the administration then arranged to have their dear friend Felipe Calderon, the left-wing president of Mexico, address a joint session of Congress. To no one’s surprise, the Mexican president—whose own country has some of the harshest anti-immigration laws in the world—condemned the actions of the governor and state legislature of Arizona for trying to curb the flood of illegal immigrants pouring into their state from… Mexico.

Insulting as Calderon’s performance was, there were two that were worse. I’m referring to the two most powerful Democrats in Congress—House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.)—who both leapt to their feet and applauded like mad when his diatribe was done.

I have to tell you, I can’t remember a week in which I have been more disgusted with my country’s leaders.

So in the midst of all of this, I was delighted to get a call from an old friend who asked me if I would do a telephone interview with a guy in Phoenix who had the media in a dither because of a T-shirt he wore to a basketball game. Here’s the story.

Do you remember when Robert Sarver, the owner of the Phoenix Suns, announced that the team’s uniform would be changed temporarily from the Suns to “Los Suns?” Since Sarver had previously marched with Al Sharpton and other leftist agitators in opposition to Arizona’s new anti-illegal immigration legislation, he left no doubt what he meant by the change.

The media loved it. Heck, even President Obama gave a shout-out to the new jerseys during a press conference in the Rose Garden.

This was too much for one fan. Jim Clark promptly had some T-shirts made (in the same bright orange of the Suns’ jerseys) that said “Viva los 1070”—the number of the legislation that was causing all the uproar. He and a buddy wore them to that night’s game.

Turns out Jim’s seats were in the front row, right behind the bench of the San Antonio Spurs. So every time TNT, which was broadcasting the game nationally, scanned the bench, Jim and his buddy (and their T-shirts) were on national TV. Same thing when the jumbotron in the stadium showed the Spur’s bench.

This was too much for some wuss in the Suns’ organization. Before too long a couple of burly security agents showed up. First they asked Jim and his friend to remove their shirts. They refused. Then they asked them to turn them inside out. Again, they said no.

It turns out their third choice was to be tossed out of the game. When ordered to leave, they complied. But once outside the stadium, they asked to speak with someone with more authority. After much back and forth and some private phone calls, Jim and his friends were allowed to re-enter the stadium. The crowd around them applauded enthusiastically when they took their seats—proudly wearing their “Viva los 1070” shirts.

So there the story ends, right? Not on your life. Jim and his shirt became a cause célèbre in the local media. He was interviewed on several local talk shows and TV programs. Then Fox News picked up the story nationally. Glenn Beck talked about it on his program. Jim was asked to be a guest (by phone) on radio shows as far away as Portland, Ore., and Minneapolis.

And this being America, orders for that T-shirt started pouring into Phoenix. Jim responded as would any good entrepreneur—he created a website. Now you too can go to www.vivalos1070.com and support Arizona by wearing your own personal “Viva los 1070” T-shirt.

So here’s to one patriot who isn’t afraid to stand up proudly for his beliefs. Or, in this case, to sit quietly behind the bench of his favorite basketball team and let his T-shirt do the talking.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

—Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • Bambi

    “But according to Mr. Warheit, we don’t need any of that. Forget any evidence; ignore any arguments. Why, if the Court cites the amendment in a ruling, then it must be legal, proper, and oh-so constitutional.” Using that reasoning, I see no reason they should be removing any mention of God from our government. All along, people have had to swear, “So help me God”, when going in front of a judge. And they can stop talking about separation of church and state, it was never in there. They’ve been mutilating our constitution for years. I’m sure our forefathers are miles from their graves, from all the spinning.

    • Dave

      There is also no mention in the constitution that you can’t urinate on someone elses home. Does that mean we should allow that too? Do you really think the founders of this great nation wanted this to be a Christian only country? A majority of people here were Christian and since you couldn’t swear on your devotion to a king or something they had you swear on a bible because it seemed effective. It wasn’t because Christian ideology was supposed to be intertwined with politics. Quite the contrary. Don’t confuse the influence of the majority with the will of the country. I’m not Christian but I’ll agree that the PC thing goes too far sometimes. It’s hard to draw the right line though so people do the best they can. Why do they do it? Out of respect for their fellow countrymen. Every citizen of this country should be respected equally and feel welcome. I think sometimes people get carried away with the their precise interpretation of the Constitution in the same way that following the bible as a fundamentalist can be misleading. It is a fact that the writers of the constitution knew they couldn’t possibly cover everything in this one document. They knew it would have to be left open to some interpretation. As for Chip Wood, by the way great name, it’s funny how every thing he doesn’t agree is illegal. It’s unconstitutional when it’s not their precisely and if it’s an ammendment well then that must have happened illegally because he knows exactly what this country needs and what the founding fathers meant. Also, does anybody here notice that he always steers things towards gold and his how to books that he sells. Like any good entrepeneur he is trying to influence you into buying what he’s selling by feeding into your emotions.

      • Another Voice

        Dave, you hit the nail smack dab on the head!

        • dmp says :

          DAVE/ANOTHER VOICE :

          DAVE, IF YOU COME IN THIS HOUSE AND INSULT THE PEOPLE LIVING HERE, YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE AND YOU ” ANOTHER VOICE,” IF YOU WANT TO VOICE YOU OPINION BY INSULTING THE OWNER OF THIS HOUSE; YOU TOO ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. CHIP IS A VERY PATRIOTIC MAN ANY ONE CAN BE. HE DOES NOT WRITE HERE TO SELL A BOOK TO YOU. HE WRITES TO GIVE ENLIGHTENMENT TO THOSE WHO ARE CLOSED-MINDED AND BEING BLIND-SIDED LIKE YOU TWO OBAMATIC FANATICS. SO IF YOU HAVE NOTHING GOOD TO SAY; ZIP YOUR MOUTH AND GO TO WHERE YOU BELONG. WE DO NOT WANT TO HEAR YOUR LIBERAL AND OBAMATIC STYLE OF LANGUAGE. THEY ARE FULL OF LIES AND FLOWERY WORDS. WE DON’T BELIEVE YOU LIKE THE ” KENYAN BORN ” SOCIALIST DICTATOR “.

      • DaveH

        And what are you trying to sell, Dave? Apathy? We should just sit down, shut up, and never question authority? You would please any potential dictator.

      • barb

        Okay, here goes. I don’t normally reply to “blogs”. As an aside, I just also happen to be a LEGAL, naturalized U.S.A. citizen. However, my point is this. There’s good news and then there’s good news. The United States of America is a CHRISTIAN nation.(Thanks to David Barton for keeping the memory of our Founding Fathers alive!)That’s the GOOD NEWS. If you don’t like it, the other good news is; your American passport is honored in almost every other country in the world. ‘Bye!
        (Let Me Help You Pack:http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=x2G3wGVAnlQ)

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          Barb,

          Kudos! Superbly stated…..exactly the point!

          Fed Up Gal

        • http://none Alex

          barb–you are an idiot. This is not a Christian nation. Would Christ drop atomic bombs on sleeping babies TWICE in THREE days? No, of course not. Would Christ genuflect to the Evil Dollar or the flag of our Evil Country? Of course not. Would Christ support the private ownership of assault weapons? Of course not. Can you “denaturalize” your fake citinzenship and get the heck out of here?

          • DaveH

            Alex,
            If everybody was Christ-like, we wouldn’t need weapons. But you Liberals who can rationalize stealing money from those who legally acquired it and giving it to those who didn’t, prove that we do indeed need weapons to protect us from evil people who can rationalize any amount of immoral behavior.

          • bp

            Evil flag? Evil Dollar? Evil Country? You’re against private ownership? What are YOU doing here? Go live overseas for a spell (funny how no one is sneaking OUT of the U.S.A.)and see if you don’t come back a Patriot. While there, brush up on your English! Yes, we are a prosperous, Christian nation! And the impeachment of the imposter is imminent!

          • linnie

            Alex
            You should be greatful that you are here, than in Europe (Muslim country) Maybe you should go there and see their freedoms
            they would have you in prison or dead for speaking about their country as Evil.
            We are a Christian Country and our Founding Fathers were very smart men, not racist, not evil.

            linnie

          • http://?? Joe H.

            lex,
            I suggest you go to live in Iran for about two years, if you last that long. Then stand on the corner on any street in that wonderful country and talk against their form of government. Really! Please do us a favor and do that! PLEASE!!!

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

            I enjoy the asian cultures including Japan. But if you are going to bring up the bomb let’s not forget that the Japanese butchered 200,000 Chinese civilians along with the most brutal torture practiced the world has ever seen or will ever see. The same most likely would have been in store for America. Wake up Alex and stop the unjustified hatred for America. A lot of American babies lost their father in that war.

          • TIME

            Alex, From your post alone I see your deluded by perversions of pretzel logic, Thus I grant you the Darwin Award for your efforts.

            The Mental Midgets seem to be growing here in leaps and bounds. So I am sure that more Darwin Awards will be granted very soon.

            I think I will start a new method for these awards, It will be called As the “lacking gray matter turns.” Hey a new Soap for day time viewers!

          • American Citizen

            Have you ever heard the expression, “War is hell”?

          • rwnut

            God and America…..There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a universal language pervading them all,having one meaning;they affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation. These are not individual sayings,declarations of private persons:they are organic utterances;they speak the voice of the entire people….that “THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION”.
            U.S. Supreme Court,
            Church of the Holy Trinity vs.U.S.,1892

          • dmp says :

            ALEX :

            YOU ARE INSIDE THE HOUSE OF A CHRISTIAN; UNDER THE CHRISTIAN COUNTRY; THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. YOU ARE INSIDE A WEBSITE OF A CHRISTIAN NETWORK. IF YOU THINK AMERICA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION, THEN YOU ARE THINKING OF YOUR OWN RELIGION THAT IS ” MUSLIM?” OUR FOREFATHERS WERE ALL CHRISTIANS AND IT’S HARD TO THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO ARRIVED HERE AND LIVE HERE THINK AMERICA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION JUST BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES ARE NOT. YOU CAN NOT CHANGE AMERICA LIKE YOUR OWN RELIGION, BECAUSE ” WE THE PEOPLE ” WILL STOP YOU FOR SURE. WE ARE WARNING YOU TO STOP MOCKING OUR BELOVED COUNTRY OR ELSE WE WILL DEPORT YOU TO WHERE YOU BELONG.

          • Samuel

            Alex, you appear to have never read the Bible. You say that Christ would not kill sleeping babies. Of course He would. He promised his love to anyone who would follow and obey Him. He further promised death to anyone who wouldn’t. Then He gave us time to choose. Since you don’t even know this much about Him and instead have invoked His Name to foment your lies, I know what He will do with you when He returns and claims His Kingdom.

          • patriot

            Humm………..since you are asking what the Christ would do……would he call another an “idiot”? “first remove the log in your own eye, before you offer to remove the speck in your brothers eye”!

          • mary high

            DAVE, I CAN TELL YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GOD. GOD DESTROYED HE WORLD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT BECAUSE THERE WAS SO MUCH EVIL IN THE WORLD AND THE ONLY PEOPLE HE SAVED WERE THOSE WHO BELIEVED AND LISTENED TO HIM, SUCH AS NOAH AND HIS FAMILY. REMEMBER WHEN HE HAD DAVID KILL THE GIANT GOLIATH? REMEMBER WHEN HE DESTROYED THE ARMIES OF THE EVIL PHARAOH? REMEMBER WHAT HE DID WHEN THE PHAROAO WOULD NOT LISTEN TO HIM THROUGH MOSES? PEACE IS NOT THE ABSENCE OF WAR. PEACE IS THE ABSENCE OF EVIL. GOD DOES WHAT HE FEELS IS JUST AND RIGHT. DID HE NOT INVENT ALL? DO YOU KNOW MORE THAN GOD NOW? READ YOUR BIBLE AGAIN, ESPECIALLY THE WORDS OF JESUS THE JEW. DO NOT FOLLOW BLINDLY BUT PRAY FOR KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM. IF YOU DO NOT, YOU WILL NOT KNOW GOD. YOU ARE ONE OF THE BLIND FOLLOWING THE BLIND. A FOLLOWER OF JESUS THE JEW AND A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. PRAY MY MAN, PRAY FOR GUIDANCE FOR YOU ARE ON THE WRONG ROAD.

          • guest

            In reply to ‘christian nation’s. don’t drop bombs on sleeping babies. Yes it is tragic our country used such destruction. What ppl. forget is Japan started that ugly war.Those caught under the japanese occupation were tortured..starved.the treatment of prisoners was horrific. And it would have continued had we not done something. Do you not remember or know that the usa WARNED JAPAN? jAPAN was duley warned that if they did not cease in their mayhem and destruction the usa would use this bomb.The japanese made a choice and ignored the warning. And what nation after winning a war goes in the defeated country and GIVE AID AND COMFORT? We did! Japan after the war thrived because of that aid and comfort.When ever i hear how other’s denigrate our country because of the bomb..i never hear the other side of the coin. The immense suffering of our ppl at the hands of the japanese. What were we suppose to do..allow the war to continue at the expense of more american..british lives?
            Illegal aliens? Those who wish to let them in are not the ones feeding and housing them.They always insist others pay for these ppl..never them! Those who want to allow them into our country..why don’t YOU OFFER your home and dinner table to them? I have to laugh at the obama’s..michelle obama claimed that america was a mean country and also americans need to give up their piece of the pie so others can have more. Yet when she was working at a chicago hospital she was responsible for turning away those who could not pay!And while we are to give up so much..they refuse to do so themselves. Their own family lives in poverty. I just can’t understand the obama’s and the micheal morries of the world. They are worth millions yet refuse to give up their money and houses and food.

      • Brad

        Dave, that is really a brainless argument. For one thing, we don’t have groups of people running around shouting “Urinate on people’s houses! Urinate on people’s houses!” And if we are not to precisely interpret the Constitution, then why have one? As a matter of fact, why have any law at all if we are not to precisely follow it? That would in very fact, nullify any law or document of law. WHICH IS WHY WE HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS TODAY! Politicians from the president down who choose to ignore the law, let alone “interpret” it are ruining this country.

        You, Dave miss the obvious point: To ratify a constitutional amendment requires ratification by the states. NOT A US Supreme Court ruling(s)!

        • kate8

          Well said, Brad. I do so appreciate a voice of reason.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        Actually Dave I disagree with just about everything you said. For one pissing on other peoples’ property is covered in the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution. The Federalist Papers covers a lot and there are other works that you have just not been interested in reading because you prefer your own interpretation to that of the ‘Founders’. God is mentioned just about everywhere including the Bill of Rights and The Supreme Court building. Everyone should own some gold and if you bought it a few years back you would have tripled your money.

        • daughterofthenewamericanrevolution

          Bruce, on Sunday I watched the idiotic Bill Maher because he had Tea Party guests. The former guest is one they call “Dr. Doom” Dr. Nouriel Roubini who is a professor of economics at NYU I believe. He predicted in 2006 the coming housing bust, the hedge fund scams, the coming recession, etc. His advice was funny but not – “instead of buying gold, buy Spam – you can’t eat gold”! Although I detest Spam, I get the meaning. Just a little nugget of something worthwhile from Maher!

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

            I like your name and I also like spam. I can remember years back someone laughing at me for eating it. He said he never saw any one eating spam before but knew there had to be people who ate it. I do not feel it will come down to eating spam for survival but America is on the path to self destruction with Obama. If our bond rating drops like predicted who knows how bad it could get.

        • American Citizen

          You didn’t mention there is an “official” minister who opens Congress’s sessions with prayer. There is no strict separation of church and state in the Constitution. It only says the Federal Government cannot force us all into a religion approved by the state. Saying a prayer is not religion as such. Every one who has faith in God prays. If you don’t, close your ears. Nobody is forcing you to listen. We are allowed to pray anywhere as the First Amendment states, “the free practice thereof.”
          Oh, by the way, atheism is a religion. It’s a belief in the non-existence of God. Practice it to your heart’s content. Just don’t force it on the rest of us which is what you all try to do.

          • Mike In MI

            American Citizen – You are so-o-o-o right, and “Selah” (Which means: “Consider these words.”).

            If any of you thinks atheism isn’t a religion you need some educating. Years ago, I considered myself one one of those beasts. And, that’s exactly what I was – worse than an animal, actually. Why, worse than? Well, if humans are supposed to be sentient beings then you must force yourself into an unconscious or semi-conscious state (oblivious to a whole lot of stuff going on in the world) in order to hold such an egotistical opinion of yourself and those like you. No doubt about it in my mind anymore, it’s pure selfishness and self- worship. In my experience and from what I see in those who practice atheism they are the most evangelical, devoted, self-glorifying slugs you’ll ever run into, as a rule.

            But, thankfully, things happened in my life that bounced me out of my mental torpor that I HAD to get some answers for. It took a wartime experience to shake me up. But shake me it did. In order to get the answers I had to admit that the science teaching I had been indoctrinated with was not sufficient to deal with all the matters that one can run into in the course of living. I knew that if I didn’t get the answers I needed there was absolutely NO reason to live. I got really quite ready to consider suicide as a better option than living if there was no reason or purpose for life. If everything was just a bunch of dead physics and chemistry and que sara sara (sp?) pain, sufferring, fighting and encroaching misery then the hell with it. “Atheism” boiled down to that for me.

            At just the right moment someone asked me to come to a Biblical fellowship with them and I accepted – against my deeply considered judgment. The teacher was truely a man of God who spoke directly to my needs and deepest thoughts like I was the only one in that group and we were having a one-on-one talk. He showed me the way out of the mess I had come up against.

            I could have walked out, walked away, refused the offer God extended or spit in His eye ’cause at that point it really made no sense given the madness I had been inculcated with. But, I decided to stick around with this Jesus Christ stuff and see where it might lead.

            I’m still here learning, being blessed and enjoying the difference. You libs ought to try it. Anything’s better than what you’ve got now (I’ve been there.)

            At just the right time

      • http://aol wayne a

        dave,i never seen sure a long comment that said nothing!talkling about spinning your wheels and going nowhere! maybe just a bad case of diarrhea of the mouth.

        • Jana

          Dave didn’t have to use the aside that “He isn’t a Christian.” That is quite obvious. It’s also quite obvious he doesn’t have or use common sense. That however is not a surprise coming from such a liberal.

      • meteorlady

        Dave – I suggest that you open your house up to illegals. That you support them because they need “help”, that you send their children to school at your expense, that you pay for their medical bills, that you pay for their food and clothing. After all they will work around your house cleaning and doing yard work because you don’t want to.

        People from Mexico and South American know exactly what they are doing when they cross our borders. They are embarking on criminal activity otherwise they would not sneak around in the dessert. I am sick to death of supporting the world when we can’t even educate our children property anymore. I am sick to death of seeing my taxes go up and up for social programs that are bloated and riddled with waste and fraud. If you like that I suggest that you head for Mexico – oh wait, their immigration laws are too strict and you won’t get in.

        • WEM

          Yes…Why are ready to support ILLEGAL ALIEN? Citizenship should be given to them, they are born in this Country to parents without residency, Social security should be given, free health care should be given…yet let me share something with you: My ex-wife a born citizen of this Country could NOT GET social security benefits, was not given disability, eventhou she is phsysicaly disabled to work, only because she DID NOT WORK FOR A MINIMUM OF 10 years? And yet we are so concerned about illegal Alien’s rights?
          The same issues concern Retired folks. I work in the Medical profession. on a daily basis you should see how many folks can not afford the prescribed treatment becasue the “medications” are too expensive to buy yet… lets give free health care to ILLEGAL ALIENs.
          Do you not wonder what is happening????

        • Silence DoGood II

          You are sooooo right. God Bless America. p.s. the next time we talk to the man upstairs ( no. I am not referring to the CHOSEN ONE, Barack Hussein OBAMA ) we should ask him to grant Barry ” O ” the presence of mind to remember where his momma put his BIRTH CERTIFICATE !

      • WarriorH

        Everyone here is missing the point. You can’t send national guardsman down to police the borders. They aren’t union!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          WarriorH,
          Yeah, but they would cross the illegal mexican picket lines!!!!

        • George E

          I’d bet the SEIU is planning to try to unionize our military folks. After all, service personnel are employees of the state……ugh. God forbid that ever happens!

      • Beepster

        The North American continent, of which the United States is a part, was basically settled by foreigners from UK, France, Spain. Now, these countries were Christian. Is it any wonder that Christianity is the predominate religion? Is it any wonder that laws are more involved with Christian teachings? The vast majority of the people in the North American continent has teachings involving Christianity. Whether you are a Christian or nonreligious doesn’t really matter to how laws are made or enforced.

      • http://none Alex

        Why doesn’t Chip Wood rail against the illegally “ratified” Second Amendment—surely the Floundering Fathers had no idea that it would be used to allow every nutjob in the country to own assault rifles and other non-defense weapons. Eye say let’s overturn the Second Amendment and help save lives in this nation, we can join the rest of the civilized world.

        • Allan

          Without weapons, we’d have become royal subjects. I’m not sure England is encouraging more of those right now given its economic problems. The founding fathers (your term “floundering fathers” is hate speech to me) supported personal possession of weapons as a defense against the tyranny of government.

          • Cathy

            Allan, you are one of the few who understand the Second Amendment. It was put in place to protect us from a tyrannical government, you know, like the one we have now.

            Hitler took away the guns, and then look what happened.

            Also, the Japanese did not invade the US during WWII because they knew we had guns. I’m not making this one up. They admitted to this fact.

            When will the anti-gun idiots understand that if you take away the guns, the criminals will still have them? Hint: guns are illegal in Mexico. Also…the countries that have “outlawed” guns have experienced sky-high crime rates. Statistics do not lie. Get it?

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

            Allan calling our ‘founding fathers’ ‘flounding fathers’ is hate speech to me also. I am glad you pointed that out as it shows how low some people have sunk and gives the rest of us an better idea what we are up against. There are people out there who truely hate what this country is and the principles is was founded on. I am noticing on this site that the left also hates Christianity along with it. They seem to champion free speech up until the point it disagrees with their political goals.

          • Right Wing

            Allan, you sound mildly intelligent but a bit disgruntled with America. Do yourself a favor and read some history. I know the constitution has some big words in it but there is another book called the dictionary that serves to “translate” the meaning of larger words into digestible bits for you. For a real teaser…try the Federalist Papers. They provide a greater understanding of the founders intent. It is almost like a lesson in civil lineage which might make you feel a bit more…American. Of course you may be too set in your ways to truly appreciate this great country but don’t be discouraged. You can apply for a Visa to travel abroad and explore new countries that better fit your ideal. After deciding to settle in to your new country you can then join arms with your new countrymen and feel good that you left America in the dust.

          • Allan

            You call yourself Right Wing? I said weapons were necessary for the birth (and maintenance) of this country. I also said “floundering fathers” is hate speech. If you disagree with those concepts, you are the one who is obviously unhappy with America.

          • Right Wing

            Alan sorry about that…my comment was directed at Alex.

        • bp

          Alex,
          For the second time, what ARE you doing here? “Floundering Fathers?” Please read David Barton learn their true history, no longer taught in government-run schools. Without the United States of America, there WOULD BE no civilized world (think WWII)!!! May God Save HIS nation.

          • Jana

            bp,
            What’s he even doing living in the United States? It obviously disgusts him to do so. He is sure showing his colors, YELLOW.

        • Rod the Other

          Alex…
          I find that people that follow your train of though (usually liberals/Progressives) fall into 2 categories:
          #1 ignorant and uninformed, but well intentioned.
          or
          #2 pushing an agenda.

          The fact is that were gun control laws are the strictest, crime is the highest. Enacting gun control laws only serves to provide a criminal with a safer victim to molest.

          http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp

        • TIME

          Alex,
          See this is why you won the Darwin Award, Please do keep up the mindless post’s it really highlites your mental ability’s.

          Whats your shoe size again. Size – 6? Wow a IQ of 6. Good for ya.

        • rwnut

          Alex….”Those who pound their guns to plow,will plow for those who do not”. Thomas Jefferson.
          Alex,as long as I have my guns,you can’t make me plow for you!(or YO MAMA OBAMA)

        • Mike In MI

          Alex – Poor little punki-headed zombie, hm, m, m.

          The day they allow Hillary to bring the U.N. Small Arms Treaty to the Senate and then to Obama for his signature your life is going to take a notable downturn. If we “join the civilized world” as you envision it, the only right you will be given is the right to agree with whoever is in power…or else.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Alex,
          Yes, let’s join the “civilized” world, where political scientist Rudy Rummel estimates that the 15 worst regimes during the 20th century killed 151 million of their own citizens, which works out to 1.5 million victims per year. That would be 151 million mostly unarmed citizens.
          Best wishes,
          Bob

        • Silence DoGood II

          It follows the playbook, every time an issue that is on the socialist agenda is exposed, the rank and file Democrats attack the 2nd. Amendment. If’OBAMA-ALEX’ wants to give up his ability to defend himself, that is his RIGHT. If I do not want to give up MY ability to defend myself against all enemies, FOREIGN OR DOMESTIC, that is MY right . I will not join the slaves of the WORLD ! If ALEX desires to be enslaved by his OBAMA BUDDIES, leave the U.S. for one of the countries that has a ban on the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS ( how about KENYA ? ) What does ALEX’s reply have to do with ILLEGAL ALIENS invading the U.S. ????

      • Allan

        So what you’re rationalizing is that individuals (and the supreme court) should support the provisions they agree with and interpret the ones they don’t. The Constitution is a legal document. Words matter. As for “everyone should be respected equally”, legal citizens may start with equal rights, but to be respected for actions and opinions, you have to earn it.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy

        DAVE, funny you should ask that question because the answer is ‘YES’, they did want this country to be a ‘Christian’ country. But don’t believe me, do some reading on all the founders writings and you will have no iota of a doubt that is what they wanted and tried to do by requiring every public school to teach religion, ‘Christian’ religion, but no certain denomination. Dave how can you liberals be so ignorant about this fact when you claim to know everything about our country and what the majority wants, knows, and needs. You truly showed how ignorant you really are by asking a question that anyone with a minutia amount of knowledge about the history of the beginning of this country and what the founding fathers wanted and tried to do for us to enable this country to survive. Unfortunately you liberals have destroyed much of their beliefs and the ‘Constitution’ which they wrote. If you really want your question answered (don’t believe what I say, because I don’t believe what you say), then purchase the book ‘The 5000 Year Leap’ by author W. Cleon Skousen about the 28 principles the founding fathers used to write the ‘Constitution’. When I started reading it I couldn’t put it down. A delightful book about the founding fathers and their reasoning of how and why they wrote the ‘Constitution’, which I read from cover to cover. It is well documented by foot notes from all the founding father’s papers that they wrote for the posterity of the people of this country. You can purchase the paper back version for $5.95 plus shipping from WND on the internet. Please do it so you can become well informed and not ask these stupid questions.

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

          There were a few that were Deists who believed in a higher power but were not sure about the details. Even they could see the common sense taught is the Bible and embraced those parts of it. Much of the Old Testament is about political guidelines. There certainly was never the anti-Christian sentiment you see coming from the left today.

      • Mick for thought

        Thomas Jefferson was not a christian and he authored the constitution.

        • http://none Alex

          Tom Jefferson was WORSE than a Christian: he owned human beings, betraying all the pretty words he wrote about freedom and equality. Jefferson, like all slaveowners, is being raked over the coals in hell as you read this.

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

            Thomas Jefferson was one of the greatest ment to ever live. People seem to forget that slavery was an excepted practice in the world for thousands of years. Thomas Jefferson, who inherited the slaves he had from his parents, and others at that time were some of the first slave owners who began to question the justification of slavery. Up until that time only slaves questioned slavery. England also had white slaves and America had indentured white servants. Many wanted slavery outlawed but stettled for a ban on the importation of slavery in the constitution in order to get it radified by the South. Thomas Jefferson did have slaves who looked he treated well. They looked up to him and admired him. Maybe the most brutal part of slavery was to sell some and split up the family. Thomas Jefferson did not do that although it wasn’t benefical to keep more than you owned. Jefferson laid the ground work for abolishishing slavery in America. Your hatred for America clouds your judgement Alex.

          • Mick for thought

            So were many of the constitutional congress. We were talking about the supposed christian base to our constitution.

          • Save America Susie

            The fact that every president (except Obama, & possibly Jefferson who was not wild about organized religion, but still believed in God) has prayed in a government meeting says something about a Christian basis for our great nation.

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

          I think part of the hatred the left has for America is that they have been miseducated. James Madison is the father of the Constitution. Jefferson was a minister to France at that time. Mick you should try to have an understanding of what you are trying to critize. Jefferson was a deist but unlike you he was not a Christian hater. There were many things in the Christian Bible he liked and wrote a book about it.

          • Mick for thought

            Where did you get christian hater from anything I said.

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

          Mick I only know of Franklin and Jefferson as Deist. The debate about religion was more along the lines of what Christian denomination you were from. There were a few Jews in that time period but there was never anti-Christian like you see today as 99% of the population was Christian.

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

          I should have directed my ant-Christian comment to Alex. My apologies Mick and thank you for taking the time to correct me on that.

          • Mike In MI

            Bruce D. – That is a down-right decent, wonderful thing to do. It’s one of the great things I love about this site. The majority are mannerly, reasonable, temperate folks who understand communication takes personal discipline and concern about being clearly understood. Words are important; and most take time to use the education and decorum they’ve been taught to keep or make things right. Blessings on those of you who do.

      • Rod the Other

        DAVE…I have long been a beleiver that if you want a FOOL to expose him/her-self, all you need to do is let that fool talk. And with the opening line of your post, youv’e placed a neon sign over your head that says “OPEN FOR BIZNUS” (the incorrect spelling is intentional).

        Quote,”There is also no mention in the constitution that you can’t urinate on someone elses home. Does that mean we should allow that too? Do you really think the founders of this great nation wanted this to be a Christian only country? A majority of people here were Christian and since you couldn’t swear on your devotion to a king or something they had you swear on a bible because it seemed effective.

        There’s no mention in the Constitution that you can’t urinate on someone elses home…”. WHAT!!!! I have certain Inalienable right, namely the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (which by the way first read, “property”). And inherent to these rights, I have the right to defend that property. In accordance with that right, if someone were to urinate on my home I assure you that I would defend my property and that individual just might wind up with their little buddy shot off.

        “Do you really think the founders of this great nation wanted this to be a Christian only country?”
        The Founders never made such statements, or sought to exclude other religions, but most of them were some version of Christian and based most of their thinking in Christian values. But, they also didn’t have a problem with calling a duck a duck. Like today. While it may be true that not all Muslims are terroists, it is true that all terroists are Muslim. (and I’m talking about within the last decade, don’t waste you time with the IRA).

        “they had you swear on a bible because it seemed effective”….Because it seemed effective?????? WHAT!? Do you make this up as you go along or is there a website your getting this from? For believers swearing on a bible was no different than swearing on your soul. Believers aren’t willing to gamble thier souls!

      • Richard Marqua

        1. Someone said that this was not me to be a christian nation. Evidentually his grasp of history was lost long ago. Religion was one of the priorities of the day. The Constitutions separtation of Church and State was to prevent another Church of England from occurig in the US. Other tha tht religion and the faith in God was a top priority.
        2. Illegal immigration. Immigration is the lawful entry into this country through major points of immagration following the laws of immagration. These are invaders, not immagrants. Look at the definition of both. The same porblems affected Rome in the same way. Only then it was the gulls, tutons, franks, etc. These people came into rome in the manner as the mexicans. Cheep labor, manpower, etc… In the end these groups, rather than assimulating with Rome, kept separate. When the countries bordering Rome finally moved on Rome, they had their cells already intact to open from withing. Red Dawn was a movie that follows that theme.
        3. The powers to be do not wat to change the flow of illegals into this country for they see votes to keep them in power. I call this high treason.
        4. This is a mute conversation for those that believe the illegals are in fact immagrants and should be allowed to enter the US in any way possible will never see it any other way until it is their family member who gets killed or worse as a result. By then, it wlii be to late.

      • Silence DoGood II

        TO OBAMA DAVE; This country will survive the illiterate ramblings of the ill informed such as you. The Constition was written as to protect the CITIZENS from the GOVERNMENT ! It took a while, but the domestic enemies ( liberal, marxist socailist ) have managed to circumvent the INTENT of the CONSTITUTION which was to SPECIFICALLY DEFINE the powers that were delegated to the GOVERNMENT. The 14th Amendment was not written to allow the socialist to manipulate IMMIGRATION to gain VOTES….. OBAMA-DAVE, WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL ALIEN DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND ???? Maybe you and BARRY, along with Harry and Nancy should do lunch tomorrow.

    • ml

      You might say “who are you” to comment, living safely in Connecticut as far from Arizona as you can get! But, my friend living in Phoenix has had to install metal bars on her windows to protect her from the bands of Mexican marauders who get intoxicated and raid her neighborhood nightly, stealing and looting. She can’t even sell her home and move away from this toxic danger! Arizona owes this protection to its law abiding, taxpaying citizens. BRAVO Arizona!!!

      • James Andrews

        You guys hit it right on the nose……the Feds are NOT doing their job. Their primary job is the defense of the nation, and the security of our borders. What is happening in Arizona is sad, but they are doind what they need and have to do, in order to try to protect their citizens and their way of life. And as far as people having to put bars in their windows, I can’t blame them. Fortunately, Arizona is a state that still protects and upholds its citizens second Amendment Rights as well-so they can own firearms to defend themselves and their property should the need arise. This country is in quite a mess right now, and things have gotten too “politically correct”. It is time to turn it around, while we still can!

      • Matt

        No human being is illegal, no matter how much rascism there is against them. The United States quota laws need changing, anyone should be able to be any where they please, as long as they pay their fair share of taxes.

        • DaveH

          That’s great Matt. I assume you will soon be putting an ad in your local classified to let the illegals know they can live in your house if they please as long as they pay a fair rent.

          • Claire

            DaveH–I am with you on this. Good grief is all I can say.

          • Save America Susie

            Dave H, Touche!!!

          • Save America Susie

            P.S. Having no laws regarding this is akin to anarchy.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Matt,
            s your last name Laurer??? He’s another liberal idiot! You sound just like him. I suggest you look up the gumball theory on immigration!!

        • JC

          Oh Look! The “Race Card” again.
          Look Matt, feel free topost a sign on your lawn welcoming all of those legal human beings to help themselves to everything you own.
          I’m sure you won’t mind being robbed blind and possibly murdered by people who have no respect for American law…in fact I’m sure you’d welcome the opportunity and so would your wife and daughters.
          It ain’t about “race” man! It’s about justice. Wake up!

        • Brad

          Matt, you not only “choked on a gnat” but you retched on a molecule! Yes, no human is “illegal,” but the human’s CITIZENSHIP in a country can very well be! (Just ask any nation–except the US, of course.)

          And please tell us, Matt–how many of these “non-illegal” humans of yours are really going to “pay their fair share?”

          Chip, I’m rolling my eyes with you and trying to be as civil as I can reading comments that lack gray matter.

        • airangel

          uh Matt, you would be wrong…anyone NOT from that country naturally or pledged to stand for and with that country through LEGAL due process is ILLEGAL!…This is not just Americas laws but that of Mexico, Germany, France, Russia, etc…you name it you are ILLEGAL IN ANY COUNTRY BUT YOUR OWN!

        • Citizen Gram

          Well Matt, that is the issue – you said it. It is about being a US citizen and being honored as a human being is a broader discussion. The law (immigration law) is in place to protect US citizens and we need protection. There is a way for those who are not US citizens to become part of our culture – yes our culture while bringing their heritage along. The point is to become a contributing member of US society and not a burden to it. If our borders were completely open, our way of life as a free country would be gone forever.

          This is not about honoring human beings in general, it IS all about becoming a contributing member of American society where human beings are honored, and US citizens are honored and protected. This is about doing things right and that is becoming legal US citizens. GO ARIZONA and other concerned states.

        • http://aol wayne a

          matt,thats the biggest bunch of crap i ever heard!what do you mean no human being is illegal.WEBSTERS RIVERSIDE DICTIONARY:ILLEGAL-PROHIBITED BY LAW.so what part of the definition doesn’t fit the illegals streaming across our borders breaking our law?and people have a right to live anywhere they want? lol matt are you an adult? try going to live in another country and don’t do it legally and see how many yrs you spend in prison.without controling our borders the US couldn’t survive.how long do you think it will be before terrorist cross our open borders with dirty bombs or even worse, nuclear bombs!maybe we’ll get lucky and one will be your neighbor.as far as paying taxes,the latest study said 79% of the illegals PAY NO TAXES!

        • meteorlady

          Matt – how old are you? 12?

        • marvin

          matt what you said is as long as i pay my fair share of tax i can go any where i want hell i been misguided all my life you mean i can just go to the white house and stay for free if i pay my tax, but it is more likly the i would go to the nut house or jail or grave

        • Todd

          Good answer Matt. When you have no logic to support your viewpoint, toss the racism label out, that way you can not only show your hypocrisy, you can also appear enlightened to the liberal minority.

        • bp

          Where do you come from, Disneyland? Try entering any other country illegally, demand that they speak, and interpret everything into, your language, “sponsor” all your aunts, uncles and cousins, and see what happens!!!

        • Allan

          Since virtually every country doesn’t just let people in if they’re willing to pay taxes, I’d say your idea is completely unrealistic, like many liberal ideas.

        • American Citizen

          Just try to emigrate to any country you want to and see the hoops you have to jump through in order to become a citizen. Every country has borders they protect except the U.S. Our government refuses to do its job, its main reason for being.

        • Silence DoGood II

          Matt is a typical product of the liberal government education machine that is undermining our LIBERTIES and FREEDOM by corrupting the minds of the young and vulnerable with the goal of creating GOOD GLOBAL CITIZENS ( SLAVES ). I moved away from California because my family and I could not tolerate the violent racist and arrogant behavior ( ever hear of THE EME, NUESTRA FAMILIA or the TEXAS SYNDICATE Matt???? ) of these ” good people who are INVADING our country so they can find a better life “. In MANY areas of California, the American Culture has been totally displaced( by A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY) by the masses of ILLEGAL MEXICANS that flooded the state during the CLINTON REGIME and have no intentions at all of becoming AMERICANS!!!! Instead, these people have flooded into areas and have TAKEN CONTROL of large cities ( a Prime example is LOS ANGELES ) through sheer population numbers. These arrogant, violent ILLEGAL MEXICANS.. These CRIMINALS destroy every area that they overpopulate. With the U.S. TAXPAYER FORCED to provide these ILLEGALS with housing, education, welfare checks ( CASH ), food stamps, social security,workers comp. benefits, free legal assistance to break our immagration laws and many more benefits that have bankrupted the U.S. and States economies. THe ILLEGALS MUST BE DEPORTED NOW!!!!!

        • Tom Davis

          You ar simply nitpicking Matt. Every human individual who crosses into The United States of America ‘illegally’ is an illegal alien and in common parlance is ‘ILLEGAL’ andshould be captured, jailed, given a hearing and then tossed out on his illegal butt. Thank God for people like Governor Brewer.

      • Fed Up Gal in NM

        ml,

        I hope for your friend’s sake and that of every legal citizen in Arizona….that the state is successful. I’m in NM and could not agree with you more! Too bad our current [NM] governor (Bill “Hollywood” Richardson) and our current Atty General (Gary King) doesn’t have the courage to do the same as Arizona is doing.

        I wish Arizona would start deporting all illegals to U.S. states that are promoting boycotting Arizona and any other state in the country that is trying to play the “shame” game. In fact, I think it’s shameful that those in non-border states have the audacity to criticize a state for upholding what is already “Federal” law. Wonder how they would feel if their own states had to cover all the costs (financial and otherwise) they expect border states to cover….so they can continue to look “supportive” of human rights….give me a break….guess they don’t think Arizona’s “legal” citizens are entitled to the same rights they want afforded on illegal residents.

        Fed Up Gal

        • Fed Up Gal in NM

          On second thought…..maybe AZ should just deport the illegals to Matt’s parents’ house (seeing how Matt’s only 12 like MeteorLady suggested)…..and bill Matt’s parents’ for the cost of transportation, health care, feeding, etc). Seems Matt would think that’s would be his parents’ fair contribution….heh heh.

          Fed Up Gal

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Fed UP GAL IN NM,
          I was gonna agree with you on your statement of sending all the illegals that Arizona arrests to the states that are boycotting Arizona and then I had a second thought. The governments of those states aren’t necessesarily reflecting the wishes of the majority of the people so why punish the people that don’t agree with them? I would rather see them sent to Calderone’s hacienda!!!! It would almost be worth the transportation costs!!!

          • Fed Up Gal in NM

            Joe H,

            Well said….you might be right about that…..since my own state (NM) is one of the states’ whose elected officials don’t seem to support Arizona’s stance (and NM is also a border state). So, while it would increase problems for our state (and other states who had to receive the deportees)…maybe that’s what it will take to get people off their butt’s to make a “real” change we can “really” believe in. :-)

      • daughterofthenewamericanrevolution

        Tell your friend to definitely not move to Texas then. I live in S. Padre Island, which is only a few miles from the Mexican border. They are coming across the border “legally” and kidnapping American citizens and returning them to Mexico to be held for ransom. Last night I was minding my own business taking a nice walk and got jumped by 5 Mexicans who couldn’t even speak English! Please don’t get me wrong, I love many LEGAL Mexicans. They are nice people and cook awesome food. It’s the gangs that fill our prison systems to overflowing. Check out the stats on L.A. County Jail systems. Send them back. I don’t even want them doing time in my country. I am afraid now to take a walk. All illegals, regardless of their country of origin need to be treated the same – SENT BACK HOME.

        • Save America Susie

          DOTNAR–How awful! How did you get away?

        • Mike In MI

          Good grief… Kidnapping, gangs roaming around assaulting and terrorizing people at will, murdering ranchers, stealing whatever isn’t nailed down, forcing American citizens to raie steel bars on their homes, drunken crazies with all their noisy fights and disturbance, police unable to mete out justice – - -??? Are these the jobs they come here to do that U.S. people won’t do?

          Our governmental paralysis is going to result in vigilantism and piles of corpse if something isn’t done and done soon.

          Maybe it isn’t “paralysis”. Maybe it studied indifference to

          • Mike In MI

            (cont’d) studied indifference in expectation of untenable conditions arising that lead to worse lawlessness than now is occurring…in order to oppress regular citizens??? That’s how tyrants get things done.

    • http://unitelc.com w mackay miller

      You might check on California’s penal code 834(b)(c). I received this via Email today. It sure is easy for the president to screen about Racism and anything else he can think of even though he hasn’t even read the law as enacted by Arizonia.

  • Bruce

    I just ordered my T-shirt from here in Minneapolis and will wear it proudly! Good old American ingenuity at work! Viva! Jim Clark!

    And as far as that moron Warheit…well, let me just say that he is one of the “idiots” that Glenn Beck referred to in his book.

    • JeffH

      …well said Bruce and a loud “kudos” goes out to Jim Clark and” viva los 1070″.

    • bp

      I would order one, too, if it was in ENGLISH! Long Live the U.S.A.!!!

  • http://www.lostnation.blogspot.com Jeryl D

    In reality, progressives don’t really care what the Constitution says nor the opinion of the people. Of course, they want the people on their side, but only to legitimize their agenda. Lacking public support, they will simply push ahead with the (erroneous) knowledge that they are the Illuminated Ones looking after the unwashed masses. Whether or not the 14th Amendment was ratified makes no more difference than whether Obama is a natural born citizen or not. As far as they are concerned: the Constitution be damned.

    • Dave

      Can we get passed the Obama is not a citizen thing? Did anyone ask for GWBs birth certificate? I never saw a copy of Dick Cheney’s birth certificate, did you? The one thing you fail to acknowledge is that Progressives are American citizens too who believe in and are protected by the constitution. The theory that people that want to try to make this country into something better and to progress are somehow unAmerican is part of what feeds into the hate and even dehumanization that many of you feel toward progressives. What do you REALLY think the progressive agenda is? Do you think we want to turn this country into Russia? Do you really think we’re trying to ruin this country? Everything evolves, like people from Monkeys. It’s a different world then it was in 1950 and if America doesn’t change then we’ll be the next Afghanistan. That was a real conservative stronghold and look what it got them. Fear of change ruins a country. Fear of immigrants has always happened. There was a time when Irish were descriminated against and everyone said that allowing them to immigrate here was going to ruin this country. The same with the Italians, the Germans, etc. The latest is hispanics. Most of you wouldn’t be here without immigration and many of your ancestors did not apply for a visa and wait months to get into this country. More needs to be done about illegal immigration but can you consider for a minute that maybe part of that will be to bring some of those illegal aliens into the fold so they can be a part of this great country? Then we can really crack down on the border so we’re not chasing down families trying to come and work but stopping drug traffickers, gun runners and terrorists. If they were documented then we could make sure they are paying their share of taxes which would pay for their kids to be educated here and for all of those other services people here always complain about them getting. Sure, it’s less than ideal to feel like you’re “rewarding” someone for breaking the law but it just may be the right answer to the situation if you look at it rationally. Do you think that someone who opposes a government law they think is unjust by peaceful protest where they know they are going to be arrested is unAmerican? There is no one here that has not broken a law at some point in there lives. Although this may seem like a “bigger” law to break wouldn’t you do it to feed your family?

      • TIME

        Dave,
        Hows that Darwin award looking on your wall?

        Progressives = marxist of what fails to = American nor what
        American stands for, that being “FREEDOM.”

        What does the word Illegal mean?
        For you to try and equate someone slipping a 2 cent piece of gum in to thier pocket to a {Federal Class Felony} is as absurd as standing in a bucket of water and pluging in your toster to make sure it works.

        But then again you did WIN the Darwin award, so that explains all your rhetoric.

        Hey Dave as your an expert in pretzel logic let me ask you this.
        If you stick your head in a limb shreader will it make your hair look good?

        • Mick for thought

          Dave made some really good points you just brushed off. Please try to think outside the conservative box for a minute and reread his comments.

          • Dave

            Thanks Mick

          • DaveH

            Please try to think outside the Liberal Box, Mick, and tell us what those great points were.
            Was it “Progressives are American citizens too who believe in and are protected by the constitution”? That is a laugh riot. They are busily trying to redistribute the wealth and could care less about the Constitutional Limits on Federal Power.
            Was it “Do you think we want to turn this country into Russia?”. No, of course progressives don’t intentionally want the results of Russia’s Communism. They are just too ignorant to know that is where they are heading us. They think that this time the results of redistribution of wealth will work, even though it has never worked before. It is intuitively obvious to anybody who doesn’t have their eye on the trough that if you take money from the people who earned it legally and give it to those that haven’t, the results will be less productivity and more poverty. The victims of that theft understandibly will work less thus producing less, and the recipients sure aren’t going to work harder and produce more.
            Was it “Afghanistan. That was a real conservative stronghold and look what it got them”? Afghanistan was a “conservative stronghold”? The Taliban was the epitome of the Absolute Power of Big Government, which the Liberals want to create. True “Conservatives” embrace the freedom which our Founders tried to guarantee. Freedom means less government, not more.
            Was it “There is no one here that has not broken a law at some point in there lives”? Wow, how presumptuous! That is how Liberals think. They want to pass more and more laws. Why not? They don’t need to obey them anyway, because the laws aren’t meant for superior people like Liberals. I guess I could make the sweeping accusation that all Liberals are Liars, and Mick the Thinker will say I’ve made a great point.
            Was it “Wouldn’t you do it to feed your family?”? That reminds me of something my Union Leader brother-in-law once said to me. “If I had to, I would kill people to feed my family”. Nice. Is that Dave’s version of “evolving from monkeys”?

          • Save America Susie

            Mick, Sorry but…I don’t really think MOST people would become murders to feed their family. NO. I disagree. What’s the point of living then?

          • libertytrain

            Save America Susie – my feelings exactly.

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

            Well said Dave H. I was going to comment but would never have done as good a job as you.

          • DaveH

            Thank you, Bruce.

          • Mick for thought

            I do think outside the liberal box that is why I can understand your points but also see your points are made on assumptions that start at (a) and go to (z) with very few, if any, points connecting the dots.

            Everything between the far right and far left are Americans. I have seen many people in here quoting this reference or that reference for a historical perspective but failing to realize that what they are reading was written by a person with their own inborn biases. History is written by the winners and the people of a region. We flip from conservative to liberal governments every 4-12 years the idea that all the history books have twisted liberal intention is nonsense. Every time I research a topic we are discussing here I find this is true. You are what you read. That is why I read everything to understand the perspective of both sides of a subject. I never agree with everything I read from either side. That is why I recommended you reread his perspective trying see what truth there is.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DaveH,
            You ever notice that the ONJLY time the liberals support the constitution is when it protects THEM??? Here Dave has been crapping on the constitution all night and all of a sudden since he can use it for gain he supports it!!

          • DaveH

            Of course, Joe. They will slip and slide to whatever side they think will support their arguments. They have no real principles other than their lust for the money of others.

            And Mick, what do you mean we switch back and forth between Liberals and Conservatives? We have had nothing but Big Government loving Liberals in office for the last 30 years. Please don’t confuse Conservatives with Right-Wingers. True Conservatives love the Freedom that was established by our Founders. Big Government is opposed to Freedom.

          • TIME

            Mick FT,
            You just got your new Darwin Award too, now you can all hang and bang the drum while singing ComeO ByO BoO YaO in a cave deep under ground where no one will hear the tune as your now in a special club that few ever get to be in.

            So Hush Hush and mush mush your now a special member in the lacking gray matter club for boys who live in Mommies basement.

        • Matt

          Is “Darwin Award” a diss? You can’t be serious. Every where in this nation, civilized people know Darwin’s theory as fact, because its been proved by science. I classify Republicans into two categaries. The stupid ones with guns who are creationists, and the rich wall street businessmen who at least know that evolution is a fact.

          • Dave

            Matt, you are a complete moron! Do you realize that Darwin himself retracted his own theory? You have absoultely no idea what you are talking about and that’s what’s wrong with this country! Stop being a sheep and pay attention!

          • Dave

            To the other Dave who said that Darwin retracted his theory I just want to let you know that is some right wing misinformation. That never happened. I don’t know where you got your information but you need to start looking elsewhere to educate yourself and don’t believe everything you read.

          • Dan Burke

            I suspect “Darwin Award” is a bit of irony. Haven’t you ever heard of the Darwin Awards? I have, at least the comedy version. It is awards given to those who remove themselves from the gene pool and thus prevent passing on that stupidity to future generations. The fact that this is being used in reference to someone still alive is ironic. I like the bucket and shredder references. These are two events that could be worthy of the comical “Darwin Awards.”

            Here is the sweet comparison. For all you “enlightened” people out there… Progressives are typically equated to believing that evolution can be applied to government and human rights just as it is applied to biological and environmental processes. Unfortunately, there are those of us who point out that the old adage of “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” So how does this apply to progressives. In order to enforce their desired evolution forward of mankind, they need to create a structure with power over the people. Why? Because not all of us share that vision and mankind has a history of defiance. Take even our own life cycle as individuals, quite often we go through several “rebellious” phases. In our “terrible twos” we are often actually just trying to define our boundaries with our parents and “no” is usually our favorite word. My daughter is there and she’ll even say “no” to the cup of juice she just asked for less than a minute before–at which point I make to make good on her “no” and she’ll usually end up correcting herself because she actually does want the cup. Anyways, later as teenagers, we are often rebellious against our parents or other authority because we are trying to become independent. So it shouldn’t be a surprise that we do such as adults and groups when faced what we perceive as repression of our identities. To create a progressive idealic world, these rebellions must be squelched with often dictatorial authority. We see this going on all around us in America, our rights to choose food, education, and eventually employment compensation are all sliding from private controls over to government regulation and laws. This is progressivism. And what happens as government gains all this power? Does it make us free? Well, not is ancient history replete with examples of what happens, but so is modern history. Isn’t the IMF coming in bail out Greece and dictating to the government how to manage the money, what to wages to pay, and so forth? And is Greece listening? Not really. They seem to be determined to continue down their path of overspending. Suddenly their progressive government doesn’t seem so bright. Just like our own politicians. We can show history in America that government regulations and taxes impair business growth and innovation while loosening the noose around business actually can be followed by accelerated growth and greater taxes revenues too. So what do we choose by default? Giving businesses freedom? Individuals freedom? No. We restrict freedoms. We enact new laws and when costs go up do we blame our legislation? No. We blame the businesses we regulated. I am not saying businesses are not corrupt. There are plenty of corrupt businessmen. But when we give our politicians power over us, expect that power to corrupt them. I am wasting all this typing and I realize I could boil it down to one simple reason why a politician must enslave their constituents.

            A free man can vote for anyone who they darn well please. There is no job security for a politician with free men. Progressives cannot control free people just as you can no longer control your children when they have learned to be independent of you.

            An enslaved populace must vote for the politician who supports the government that continues to provide for them. In other words, if a progressive wants the power to mold the people into a brave, new and evolved mankind then it is best for them to enslave the people. Here they have control. There is no freedom here.

            And by the way, Nazi Germany and China are progressive governments, plus many others in recent history, and the price tag for progressivism seem to include lots of massacres. For example, under a progressive government I must either be reeducated or killed. There is no room for anything else because if my thinking is preserved there is the risk that it may gain momentum and actually undo all their efforts to remold the people into their vision of an evolved man.

          • JeffH

            Dan Burke, a mouthfull, but very well said mouthfull.

          • DaveH

            Another Liberal showing his Ignorance:
            http://www.darwinawards.com/

          • Save America Susie

            Matt, In every college and university around the world, It is STILL called The Evolutionary “THEORY”! A theory is somehting yet unproven. Professors still say, “It may have been” or “It may have looked like”, when they teach evolution…I sat in Anthropology class while they passed around some of the evidence and I almost laughed out loud. Whole skeletal structures in many cases were the imagination of some artist based on a single tooth or parcial skull cap. In the 1930′s “Piltdown Man” was declared “The Missing link”. For 30 years the educators taught this as fact. Then in the late 1960′s they retracted that because it had been discovered that it was a HOAX. A man had wired a jaw of an ape to the skull of a man. Many Creationists are brilliant scientists with proven high IQs, so you can’t call them all dumb. It just isn’t so.

            * Type into your Internet space “Piltdown Man Hoax” for the story!

          • Save America Susie

            P.S. I learn about “The Piltdown Man Hoax” in Anthropology class in college from my professor–NOT from the right wingers.

          • Citizen Gram

            I’m sorry but Darwin’s theory has NOT been proven by science. It takes more faith to believe in the evolution of species than it does to believe in GOD by a long shot.

          • Sally

            I cannot believe that someone actually believes that Darwanism is a fact. It has been proven without a shadow of a doubt that it is not true because there are sooooooo many unexplanable holes in that theory however Matt in not to distant of the future it will all be revealed to you and I am sorry to say it will be too late for you and for all people of your same ilk.

          • http://aol wayne a

            matt,i was going to put you in a category with the rest of obama and his croonies but you deserve a category all to yourself! it’s a du@#$%^,fu@#$%^, idiot!

          • BobA

            Hello Matt

            If you knew anything about science, any scientist would tell you that any theory can not be absolutely proven. As for the theory of “Evoultion” you should really do your homework. Evoultion has never been proven true. Even the top biologists in science do not agree with the theory anymore. Some have even come up with alternate hypothesis such as “Panspermia”. The revelation that information or instructions are input into the DNA of living organisms has changed the minds of many scientists. It takes an intelligence to input instructions into the DNA code. It did not happen by chance: it is stastically impossible.

          • TIME

            Matt,
            This post is why your now a Darwin Award winner.

            One word that proves it wrong; Dinosaurs.

            Thank you please leave a tip for the bar keep, and I will be here all year, Try the PorkO bag Samwitch.

          • TIME

            Dan Burke, A well thought out post. Thanks,

          • meteorlady

            Dan – thanks for the lengthy and very correct post. Nice to know there are still thinking people left in this country.

        • Dave

          Nothing you just said makes sense. It kind of sounds like you’re not thinking rationally which is really the root of the problem.

      • Cathy

        First of all…it’s “past” not passed… Why should we get past this BO birth certificate thing? We don’t know ANYTHING about him except for the fact that he’s had many associations with nefarious characters and his mentor was Frank Marshall Davis, a communist. Duh…

        Secondly, if you progressives don’t like the way America is, why don’t ya all move somewhere else and start your own country?

        • http://personalliberty PFFFF
          • DaveH

            It’s “get past”. To get past something is to “get over it”. Past is being used as an adverb. To “get passed” would be using passed as an adjective. To “get passed” would be used when something or someone has been passed by another object or person, such as “getting passed” in a race.

          • WarriorH

            I’m just trying not to “get pissed” at liberals/progressives but I believe that may not be possible.

          • bp

            No, it’s PAST, as in “get past it already”! Not as in “Obama has passed the buck” already! One must read IN CONTEXT. Why should we give him a pass on the “birth certificate thing?!” Pun intended:-)

        • Dave

          We’re fine with the way America is. We’re trying to make sure we keep making it stronger. It kind of sounds like you people on here whimpering about things are the ones who don’t like America. I think it’s all of you cry babies that need to go elsewhere. I think you have every right to be here an complain but if you hate it so much you are free to leave. I here there are job openings in Afghanistan. That’s a great conservative fundamentalist country you can go live in.

          • DaveH

            That’s rich. A Liberal cry-baby accusing others of being cry-babies. The Freedom lovers in this country would be quite content taking care of themselves. It is you Liberal cry-babies who are constantly seeking protection from reality at the expense of others.

          • DaveH

            Wah! Feed me. Wah! Clothe me. Wah! Shelter me. Wah! Doctor me.

            What a bunch of Liberal Whiners!

          • Save America Susie

            That is what makes America great! The FREEDOM to WHINE if we want to. That’s called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I would worry about someone who did not complain. Those who did not complain were on the side of the English in the American Revolution. The Rebels against England were the “whiners” who cause America to be born into this great nation of ours! So are you saying the Founding Fathers were whiners? Yes, and proud of it!

          • Save America Susie

            Both sides have that RIGHT to complain. We should have been a fly on the wall at the discussions over writing the Declaration of Independence! The complaining was fast and furious. That’s the America way! Debate! If there is no debate, then you must worry that you are in a county that is NOT free!

          • Claire

            Save America Susie– Thank you for your unbiased approach to whiners. Debate is necessary.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Save America Susie,
            I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall when Odummer first found out about Arizona’s new law!!! I’ll fet the language was real fluent!!!

          • Save America Susie

            Good one Joe H! Made me smile.

      • Tracy

        Most illegals have one goal in mind. To come here make money send it home and leave. No love for our country no allegiance no loyalty NOTHIN!!!! I know some of these people as I actually lived in Mexico for a few years. It is much harder to become a citizen there and you NEVER get teh right to vote or protest. A hypocritical travesty.

        • kate8

          Yes, Tracy. And that means making money any possible way they can, including the commission of crimes against the American smucks. A great deal of their “business” is criminal activities, including murder and mayhem, and lots of illegal drugs.

          Let them stay home and fight for their own countries, like we did. Our prosperity and freedom was hard won, paid for with the blood of people who would not accept tyranny. Being compassionate does not mean being suicidal. We are rapidly losing our way of life because of third-world invasion.

          Our country was great because of the Christian morality held by our founders, our system and our people. We have degenerated as a nation as we’ve lost our integrity, our faith, and our accountability. Reading the liberal comments gives a fine sampling of why we are collapsing as a culture.

      • Save America Susie

        At least McCain gave us his long form B.C., with much data on it, verifying he was born on the U.S. military base in Panama–which is legally considered part of the USA. At least we had some facts to go on. The issue for me is NOT whether he was born here–he may have been–Its that he claimed “transparency” and then hid everything! If someone is your president, the American people have a right to see it. Not just take the word of 2 people that said they saw it. Even a CEO of a major corporation shows more proof. It hangs on his wall behind his desk! Its matter of TRUST, more than anyhting.

      • JC

        Dave says:
        June 4, 2010 at 7:42 am
        Can we get passed the Obama is not a citizen thing?

        NO!

      • American liberal

        Dave… Awesome post… And very well put…thanks…

        • DaveH

          Not!

        • airangel

          DOUBLE NOT!!

        • Save America Susie

          Love that DEBATE! Its a sign we are still a FREE country!!!

        • American Citizen

          TRIPLE NOT!!!

      • Citizen Gram

        All of those you mentioned have provided a birth certificate when asked to do so as part of the vetting process because they have nothing to hide. (Obama side-stepped that one somehow.) And the birth certificate would have been legal, unaltered, and official. I think the question is valid and if the president wanted to instill more confidence he would provide a valid birth certificate. He would also surround himself with moral, tax paying, honorable men and women and not use Chicago style strong arm tactics that make us all worry and doubt his ability to govern this great nation. I’m really concerned about or current administration and you should be too. If you are not asking questions, I would ask you why not?

      • http://aol wayne a

        dave,you need to take some modium ad,there goes that diarrhea of the mouth again,on and on and….why in the hell should we make 20 million illegals that broke our laws citizens? they’re the uneducated and unskilled poor that mex is glad to get rid of.they put a strain on our schools,strain our welfare systems,abuse our hospitals and er’s,,strain our gov.subsidized housing system.they refuse to speak our language,adopt our customs or conform to our society.they raise our crime rates,they’re uninsured and unlicensed so OUR premiums go up!HELL NO,NO AMNESTY,HELL NO,NO CITIZENSHIP!!!

      • Sharon

        Dave,
        I am left speechless by your idiotic rambling…you are sorely uninformed. You are however correct on one point. Yes, the Constitution of these great United States of America protects Progressives, unfortunately you do not return the favor.

      • meteorlady

        While you make some interesting points, here’s what the current nominee for the Supreme Courts has stated:

        In one of her legal writings, Kagan cited Marshall’s assertion that the Constitution, “as originally drafted and conceived,” was “defective.” This view is consistent with President Obama’s contention that the Constitution “is not a static but rather a living document and must be read in the context of an ever-changing world.” That is so scary to me that a legal judge would deem to interpret the law in whatever manner their belief system dictates. The law is the law, period. Their job is to rule on points of law, not rule with their hearts, values, beliefs or any other skewed ideas they might have.

        And that is what we are afraid of. Progressives are selfish in that they take other’s money by force and coercion and give it to someone else, then take credit for doing something good. We were established as a country of laws. We believe in those laws. For the Federal Government to REFUSE to enforce those laws as a means of protection of it’s citizens is in itself criminal.

        A progressive thinks more and bigger federal government is the answer. A conservative believes that less federal government is better for everyone. The STATES have RIGHTS and the Federal Government should butt out and let the state handle their own business. Stop the federal funding bribes and revenue sharing, and then pulling the money if the states don’t perform per expectations. Stop the interference in our school systems and give the authority back the communities. I don’t care if you want “to make things better” it’s up to you personally to do that, but do it with your own time, effort and money.

        I’m going back to what I have said to you time and time again – I work for charities in my county and not one single progressive/liberal has showed up to help, because they are spending their time campaigning on issues that will get them noticed, adored and generally thought to be helping the interests of my county. The rest of us conservatives and middle of the road Americans are pitching in and helping with time, money and our own energy. That my friend is the difference between you and me – I do something, you just throw out ideas and more bloated government programs for me to pay for.

        • Rod the Other

          I would like everyone to keep in mind something that one of our greatest founding fathers said, “If it does not pick my pocket, nor break my leg, it is of no concern to me…”. The founder who made this statement was Thomas Jefferson and it goes straight to the heart of what believing in the Constitution and being a good American means.

          To all of you open-borders crowd….ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION does both. It not only picks OUR pockets by way of the social programs that the ILLEGALS TAKE and the jobs they occupy. It also breaks OUR leg by weakening the beleif of and adherance to the Constitution and commitment to our Nation.

          Any person that does not have allegance to the Amercian flag (nation) is not an American and is BY DEFINITION IN HOSTILE OCCUPATION OF ANY AREA THAT THEY INHABIT.
          To me any illegal, of any color, or of any nation is an invader and a threat to OUR nation. Those who seek to allow this are giving aid and comfort to the enemy and should be considered enemies as well.

          When patriotic Americans speak of illegals Aliens we get called RACISTS….Why? How does race become part of the debate? American immigration laws make no such reference to any persons ethnicity! I’ve yet to hear ANY person that is against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION say that we need to stop the illegal entry of one race but encourage or even allow the ILLEGAL entry of another.
          The reason is actually pretty easy to see. Over 70% (some say nearly 90%) of those who enter the USA ILLEGALLY are Hispanic. So when law abiding American citizens say, “We want the destruction that the ILLEGAL ALIEN invasion is bring upon the American citizens stopped”. It is heard by the pro-ILLEGAL ALIEN crowd as “We don’t want Hispanics in the USA”. AND it is through this twisting of the debate that the pro-ILLEGAL crowd seeks to gain validity to their arguement. Take notice that when you see protester ralling for immigration reform, who do you see in the crowd?…does it look like the same mix of races that you would see anywhere else? This debate is being altered through semantics. It is allowing people that aren’t legally entitled under the Second Amendment to protest in OUR streets, against OUR laws, and these invaders are being given credence by OUR (supposed) political leaders as having a VALID voice in the policies of OUR nation.
          They want to position this debate by saying that those coming here illegally are just hard working people looking to better their lives and that they are an asset the nation…THE INTENTIONS OF THOSE COMING HERE FROM MEXICO ILLEGALLY ARE! NOT! THAT! INNOCCENT!!!!!!
          do a web search on these topics: Aztlan, Mecha, LA Raza, Reconquesta.
          http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

          I have been aware of a MEXICAN movement called “La frontera del norte” since the mid 80′s. In this movement the objective is to RE-conquer the northern frontier (or to put it another way, reconquer former Mexican lands) by OUT BREEDING AMERICANS and pushing us out.

          MAKE NO MISTAKE, WE ARE NOT HAVING A SIMPLE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHO GETS TO COME TO AMERICA, WE ARE VERY MUCH IN A FIGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY. IF WE DON’T GET OUR HEADS ON STRAIGHT AND WAKE UP TO WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON IN THIS DEBATE, WE MAY WAKE UP ONE DAY AND FIND THAT THE SOUTH WEST PORTION OF NORTH AMERICA IS UNDER CONTROL OF THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT.

          • Jana

            Rod the other,
            Very excellent post. Thank you.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Amen!!!!

          • American Citizen

            Well said. The truth shall set us free.

          • grendal

            good reply rod,i agree totally we are at war for the south west states.

          • mary high

            I AGREE VERY MUCH WITH ROD ON THE BORDER PROBLEMS AND THE RADICAL MEXICAN GROUPS WHICH ARE LED BY THE TERRORISTS THE MUSLIMS WHO ARE CONDITIONED TO KILL THE INFIDELS, WHO ARE US, THE JEWS, ISRAEL, THE CHRISTIANS AND ALL WHO WILL NOT ACCEPT THE PHONEY MOHAMMED, THE CHILD MOLESTER AND PEDIPHILE. DO YOU THINK GOD WOULD CHOOSE A MAN WHO HAD HAREMS FILLED WITH ALL COLORS AND RACES OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN? DO YUO THINK GOD WOULD CHOOSE A MAN WHO OWNED AND SOLD SLAVES? THE HOLY PLACE THE MUSLIMS CALL MECCA WAS THE LARGEST SLAVE MARKET IN THE WORLD. THE RADICAL MUSLIMS AND THE RADICAL AFRICANS BEGAN THE SLAVE MARKET. IT IS IN THE BOOKS OF WORLD SLAVERY. EVEN AFRICAN KINGS OF THOSE DARK AGES HAD MANY SLAVES AND MANY HAREMS FILLED WITH ALL COLORS. WE BOUGHT CALIFORNIA, ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO FOR $10MILLION IN 1853 AND IT WAS NAMED “THE GADSDEN PURCHASE.” WE PAID FOR ALL THE LANDS WITH MONEY, BLOOD AND SWEAT. WHY DIDN’T THIS HALF BREEDS, WHICH MAINLY ARE PART SPANISH, THE CONQUERERS, AND PARAT INDIAN WHO LIVED IN THE LANDS IN MANY TRIBES AND LANGUAGES JUST LIKE IN OUR LANDS IN AMERICA. MANY COUNTRIES CAME HERE TO FIND RICHES FOR THEIR KINGS AND QUEENS. I, AS A CHRISTIAN AND BROUGHT UP IN A ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH AND FOUGHT FOR RIGHTS WITH MANY SAINTLY PRIESTS, SUCH AS FR. KILLGALLON, THE FAMOUS AUTHOR WHO WAS THE FIRST TO PUT MARTIN LUTHER KING INTO THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM AND WAS ALMOST MADE A MARTYR. I KNOW BECAUSE I WAS THERE WITH HIM. I CAN GO ON AND ON WITH THE NAMES OF SO MANY GREAT CHRISTIANS SUCH AS THE ONES DURING THE CIVIL WAR. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO BE CALLED NAMES BECAUSE JESUS WAS CALLED A DRUNK AND EVERY OTHER NAME IN THE BOOKS OF HATE AND IGNORANCE.

      • American Citizen

        It seems you don’t understand the difference between legal and illegal. We can’t take in the whole world. Look at our situation now, massive unemployment, the dollar worth practically nothing, crime rampant in those state along the Mexican border, etc. Wake up!

        • Save America Susie

          American Citizen….One thing that concerns me is that in 50 years when my grand kids are my age, and my great-grand kids are young adults, this country will not be the same AMERICA possibly as the country we remember & love. I have read, and seen videos on YOUTUBE about demographics changing, that talk about the population explosion of certain groups that would want to threaten our way of life (because they prefer their own alien culture & just want to live here). Certain groups that have about 5 to 8 kids per family.

          Because the traditional groups, from European ancestry that founded our great country, are only having about 1 or 2 kids now per family. They are disappearing over time. That is NOT enough reproduction for our AMERICAN Culture to survive. It is not just about politics and voting now, it will BECOME about mathematics! Do the math.

          ONLY IF the LEGAL Immigrants (of various ethnic groups) follow in our foot steps & ASSIMILATE into our Culture, Adopt out Value System, and carry forward with our Constitutional Principles, can AMERICA (& FREEDOM) make it. In 50 years, European peoples will be the minority. AMERICA (if it is still called that by then) with be mostly Arab Muslims and Mexicans. History has proven to us that they tend to RESIST adopting our AMERICAN Cultural Values. (In the old days, the Mormons would have also played a part in the demographics increases due to their large families. But many now-a-days are not as prolific as they once were.)

          Will AMERICA still adhere to the CONSTITUTION then with these new demographics? Or will she become ruled under some oppressive Tyrant BECAUSE the Immigrants resisted our Constitutional values?

    • Angel

      Jeryl D…that is EXACTLY it. They are looking for the masses to control. It is a global takeover of the Illuminated Ones (Illuminati) and they think the progressives are on their side when in fact, it came about in the 1930′s to “do away with” inferior races which was the beginning of planned parenthood. Who does Planned Parenthood target the most? Blacks and then? This is why the government does nothing. They are being used by the federal government to advance their agenda and can’t even see it for their lower IQ and lack of education.

      They let their emotions stand in the way of their thinking. Having them here illegally, with their fraudulent practices of identity theft, social theft, and their flagrant disregard for the laws, only serves to take American jobs, make America fall to her knees (which is happening at a very rapid pace), making it so Americans cannot even put back into the system as they have no jobs for the cheap illegal labor, then in turn, more government entitlements which result in even more government control A vicious circle that never ends until A) the Lord comes back or B) the Illuminati is in complete global control and has depopulated the inferior races leaving the rest slaves to their whims. God help us all!

    • Allan

      I think the psychological makeup of liberasl renders them more susceptible to peer pressure. Combine that with “education”, and you have a dangerous brew.

      • Rod the Other

        I think what makes them suseptable to peer pressure is their desire to show how (in their minds) superior their “social justice” beliefs are and how morally superior they believe liberalism to be.

        It makes me laugh then gets me mad when I think about how Liberal politicians are able to “Play” the emotions and sympothy strings of the Liberal voters with the same old tired rhetoric. They claim to be “all about fighting for the little guy” and “we’re going to fight for the working family”. All the while the politician is acting in ways that are counter to the voters best interest. Take for instance how cities that have been democrat controlled for decades comprise something like 18 of the poorest 20 cities.
        See this link: http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/witterpitters/54877

        Now those same democrates (other wise known as Congress) are passing healthcare legislation that the country doesn’t want! I beleive even more are against Amenisty (Otherwise known as Comprehensive Immigration Reform) and yet the liberals in Congress are pushing to have them legalized!….Why…because they get a larger voting base.

  • Harold

    The only thing missing in our country in today’s PC world, is a set of balls. We are so worried about telling the truth and having the culprits face the truth, because the truth hurts, that we fear retaliation from the ones who don’t like to hear the truth. When the culprits hear the truth, they feel the only way to react is to riot, protest, or show some kind of militancy towards those who are telling the truth. Here it is…..to those of you who are here in this country illegally…..either go through the process of legal citizenship or face the law and be deported back from whereever the hell you came. If you are here illegally, you are costing those of us who are producers, money that could be spent on things that are so much more important than you are. Don’t go away pissed off, just go away!

    • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

      I’m glad you like the truth Harold. The problem and the root cause to almost all the problems we have is the fact that our government and corporations are being controlled by an elite few. Those few exert their power though their control of our economic system(s) through centralized banking. Mexicans and other illegals are a drop in the bucket compared to the havoc these economic predators create not only in this country but on the planet as whole. Wars to them are a commodity where they can only gain regardless of the outcome (short of total world annihilation through war or environmental catastrophe). So don’t waste your time on some people who for the most part are just trying to get a better life (yes there are some who are looking for a free handout), but like I said.. don;t waste your time on the small stuff. Keep you eye on the prize. The true bandits of the planet, who no politician will even mention.. Republican or Democrat, Tea party or Green.

      • Farming Jimsey

        I agree with you Duende- illegal immigration is a problem but it’s tiny compared to the wholesale theft of money, productivity and resources of the American people (and middle classes the world over). This theft by the Financial sector and their bought and paid for accomplices (governments/politicians)may exceed a quadrillion dollars ($1,000,000,000,000,000,000 !!). People should focus their attention on this fact now because in the eyes of the elite criminals, we are all “illegal immigrants” on this planet.
        People that are still thinking in terms of “conservatives,” “liberals,” “Democrat,” “Republican,” etc., are allowing themselves to be deluded and distracted by the MSM. They are all corrupt and they don’t care on damned bit about you except for how much they can tax you or are you able bodied enough to fight their wars.
        WAKE UP PEOPLE!

        • DaveH

          So true. Big Government is the problem, not the solution.
          The leaders love to distract the citizens with one catastrophe or another so they can build their power and the Government.
          I do think the laws should be obeyed, but there are too damn many of them. We need to cut the number of laws to a much smaller number that are easy to understand and rigorously enforced. And we need to cut the Government to a much smaller size.
          There is only one Political Party I know with the principles and will to do that – The Libertarian Party:
          http://libertarianparty.org/platform

          • Angel

            Have you ever heard of the Constitution Party Dave?

            http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

          • DaveH

            I have, Angel, but they are decidedly bent to the religious side. I’m not sure they would be much better than the Republicans. I have absolutely nothing against religious people. In fact, I embrace their morality for the most part. But true freedom involves recognizing peoples’ right to control their own bodies and property, free from the force of others. Only the Libertarian Party recognizes those rights.

        • http://aol wayne a

          20 million illegals,a tiny problem? lol

        • Rod the Other

          HOLD ON!!!!!
          ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION into the US is by NO MEANS a drop in the bucket or a small time problems that doesn’t deserve our attention.

          Your efforts to turn our eyes from this issue need to be seen for what it is….ANOTHER EFFORT TO BUY THE ILLEGALS TIME TO “DIG-IN” AND BECOME HARDER TO REMOVE.

          ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and all that follows it are the means by which America’s blood will be let from it’s veins. I by no means am holding to ANY corporation and believe if they have broken the law, they need to be PUNISHED for it. But, I will not be lulled into thinking this is a small time issue. What happens when these people’s children grow old enough to vote? After not so long you will have generations of invaders that are voting for surrendering American land to Mexico! Your walking a very dangerous path here. This path will allow the ILLEGAL desease more time to infect and spread!

      • http://alex110539@yahoo.com alex ,sandiego

        whats wrong dave not smart enough to make it on your own?

      • JeffH

        Duende, you’ve pretty much got it covered. I’d like to add that we need to get control(NOV2010) of our own government before we can start the fight against the globalists.

      • Allan

        Welcome to basic human nature. Pretty unproductive to talk about if you ask me. But it’s why religion, Boy Scouts, etc, who at least try to imbue a moral code, are essential in managing chaos and forming character.

    • cheryll

      What part of illegal don’t they understand.. The illegal’s, and our own government need to read the definition. “Not lawful, not sanctioned by official rules”, that is the definition, Mr. President, and all illegal’s.

      • Randy Goeman

        BRAVO!!!!

      • independant thinker

        they cannot comprehend the i and first l. all they can see or comprehend is legal.

  • Dustin Saunders

    “But according to Mr. Warheit, we don’t need any of that. Forget any evidence; ignore any arguments. Why, if the Court cites the amendment in a ruling, then it must be legal, proper, and oh-so constitutional. Sounds like an argument by the Red Queen in Alice in Wonderland, doesn’t it?”
    If the 14th amendment was thought to be unconstitutional, a competent lawyer would use it as grounds for appeal in any verdict that cited that amendment.

    • Walt

      Dustin, you need to think about what you just stated and then read a little bit of what the job of the Supreme court is. The Supreme court only interprets the constitutionality of LAWS not amendments to the constitution, amendments to the constitution become the constitution and are ratified by a 2/3 vote of all the people in all of the states. How do you judge the constitutionally of the constitution with the constitution? The progressives have succeeded in dumbing down the people. Watch the movie Idiocracy I think you were in it.

    • Matt

      The 14th amendment does not enact Mr. Spencer’s Social Statics.

    • David Warheit

      Thanks, Dustin. Also, if a case came before the Supreme Court involving the 14th Amendment (or any other part of the Constitution) and some members of the Supreme Court were at the very least unsettled as to whether that section was lawfully adopted or whether it means what people have been saying it means, they would notify the attorneys on both sides of their concerns and ask them to brief the Court on the matter. In the case of the 14th Amendment, this has never been done.

      The only circular reasoning is that of Mr. Wood: the 14th Amendment was never lawfully adopted. But it must have been, we’ve been told for almost 150 years it was, and besides, if it wasn’t why isn’t the 15th Amendment referred to as the 14th Amendment, which it would be if the Amendment we’re talking about doesn’t exist? Answer: because Mr. Wood says so, therefore, end of discussion.

      • Allan

        Kinda like our President. We’ve been told he’s our President, but is he? Lot’s of liberals didn’t think Bush was their President from day one. I guess, to quote the Beatles…”man see’s what he wants to see”.

      • Don Ramon

        I believe arguement over the 14th amendment is over the fact that the Southern States were at the time control by military governorship. Read up on the reconstructionist period after the Civil War. States that kept butting heads with Union government were told to disband there representative bodies. After which the Union under military governing appointed new state houses. These are the people that voted in the 14th not the elected officials of the states. In which case would be against the State’s constitutions which all clearly define how a state must inact laws.

  • Buddy

    My hat’s off to Mr. Jim Clark, of course he is just one of some 70 odd percent who know Arizona is right, but he is one with the gonads to parade his belief.
    Thank you too Chip for continuing to speak out for the real USofA.

    • Dave

      All of the USA is the “real” USA. Are we all supposed to have the same opinion? Do you think all of the framers of the constitution agreed with everything in the there to the letter? Do you think there was no debate because they all had the exact same vision? What makes the US the great democracy it is is the fact that you’re allowed to have any opinion here.

      • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

        It is not a democracy!!!!!!!!!! We live in a Constitutional Republic. It is a Republican form of Government. Or didn’t you study Civics (American Government). Democracy is mob rule, and I for one will not live in such a system. Give me Liberty or Give me
        Death.

        • Dave

          This Constitutional Republic is based on Democratic principles. So are you saying that you just want to choose which Mob runs this country? Are you saying you’d rather have a dictator to give you liberty? You have the right to be here and say stupid things, isn’t that liberty?

          • DaveH

            No, he is saying that the Federal Government was given Limited Powers under the Constitution. The rest of the powers were retained by the States and the People.
            By “mob rule” he is talking about the fact that in a true Democracy, the raw majority rules. The other 49% get trampled. Maybe, Dave, we should give you the system you think you want:
            http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2009/51_say_congress_is_too_liberal_22_say_it_s_too_conservative

          • Save America Susie

            Awesome points, DaveH!

          • Rod the Other

            I am so tired of uniformed, uneducated, unintelligent morons trying to substantiate their view by saying “…we live in a democracy”.
            The Constitution was written by mortal men trying to create a document that would provide the maximum amount of freedom with minimum Governmental interferance to support and promote freedom and individual wellbeing and opportunity for those that wished to work for it. This union hall mob mentallity is disusting!

          • Mike In MI

            Dave H. -
            He’s going to get the system he wants – he and all the other God haters who think they know better than God how the world should operate. It’s all explained Bibically in the Book of Revelation and other places.

            No where is it written that making the world more pleasing to the liberals’ theories and expectations is going to make the state of man improve. It says evil men shall get worse and worse, not better and better. So, if anybody thinks it’s bad now…you ain’t seen nottin’ yet.

            God knows how He set up and created the world to operate. The only reason things that work work is because they are in conformity with what He says He’ll bless and support or it fits in the framework of the material realm laws He established. Those laws operate in the physical, mental and spiritual realms universally.

            Evil is anything man does to try to deny, contradict, act in opposition to, circumvent or disestablish. Evil is both the driver and the result. Liberals’ ideals and actions are in almost every case the total reversal of God’s established order. As liberal ideas gain more and more traction in the world the world becomes more confused, backwards and ruined. LIiberal action results in more and more destruction because it is in opposition to God’s wisdom. The world is not on automatic pilot as scientists would have us believe. Our belifs and behaviors matter.

            Opposition to God is simply unbelief.

            Unbelief is sand in the machinery of God’s Universe. Man’s thinking and action is either in harmony or dissonance with what the Universe requires. Quantum theory posits that things done by volition in one location can have multiple effects or exist in various locations or realms of existence simultaneously.

            So, the more evil that is acted out the effects are multiplied in manifold ways. The more right actions are carried out the effects are multiplied in the direction of bringing benefits. So, as evil men become worse and worse the effects will become more and more disastrous…until God decides to intervene and put a screeching halt to it.

            The evil people living and causing all the disruption will have the opportunity to partake of the rotten fruit of their evil thoughts and actions. (It is not going to bring the utopian joy they expect.)
            However,the Bible states that people who exhibit Godly desires and actions will be removed before God intervenes by sending His Son, the Lord Jesus, back to claim the kingdom he earned 2000 years ago.

        • Vicki

          Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.

          The US is a Constitutionally LIMITED Republic. As a republic we use certain democratic principles to select who represents us. Such a republic is just as capable of “mob rule” as any “pure” democracy. For that reason in particular the founding fathers created limits on what the representatives were to be allowed to do to the people.

          Since some at the time felt that just stating what powers the government was to be allowed to have, no matter how the people or their representatives voted, the founders successfully added a Bill of Rights to that Constitution thus enumerating SOME of the rights they thought most important to explicitly protect. (See amendment 9 for the rest of the rights of the people and amendment 10 for the powers that are allowed to the states.)

          History has shown us they were correct. Time and again the government has tried to break the bonds and do things way beyond its intended function. Almost all of the attempts have been by use of the power to regulate commerce between the states.

          Imagine where freedom of speech would be today if there was no First Amendment for instance.

          Should we ever manage to get back to the principles of the Constitution and stop being envious of the successes of others we might again experience this rumored “freedom” that our forefathers fought and died for.

          • Save America Susie

            Vicki, I love what you have said here, & I love your quote! I had heard it before, and loved it then. The rest (which I think is terrific)
            is:

            “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.

            > LIBERTY is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!”

            –Ben Franklin

          • DaveH

            “Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.”
            Thomas Jefferson

            “Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.”
            Thomas Jefferson

          • Save America Susie

            DaveH, I love when people actually do their “homework”, and read what the Founding Fathers actually said! It is so important to get back to the Founders vision of America! Those are good quotes I had not heard before. Thanks for contributing them to the group!

        • Mick for thought

          It is a democratic republic.

          • Rod the Other

            WRONG….it’s a Constitutional Republic…..THE CONSTITUTION IS THE CENTER BY WHICH ALL THINGS PIVOT IN THIS COUNTRY!

      • meteorlady

        Sorry to burst your bubble, but we haven’t been a democracy for quite some times and we are slowing and sadly loosing our Republic status also.

      • bp

        Not exactly. High crimes and misdemeanors, traitor, hurting others. The basis for the constitution is a personal moral responsibility before God. That would be the Christian God, not allah or any god.

  • Wanda

    Go Jim go I hope you sell so many t-shirts you can hardly keep up with the orders. I’m sick of hearing anything about Mexico and I’m tired of that Mexican government mouthing off about what we need to do here. What he needs to do is take care of Mexico. But that isn’t happening so you wonder what the big pay-off is. We know what the big pay off would be if he could control our country but that will never happen.

  • Claire

    The current administration should back Jan Brewer and the bill She and Arizona has passed. No ifs, ands, or buts.
    It is very troubling to me that all past and current administrations did not contend with this problem. Now it has grown considerably and has become an uncontrollable situation.
    Forget being loyal to a party, look what these political parties have done during the past. They did next to nothing. Each administration left this problem to the incoming administration to deal with. None of them had the guts and backbone to do something about this issue. All they thought about was the political aspect, would they lose votes, would they jeopardize their political future? The so-called Democratic and Republican parties have been and are very willing to sacrifice the welfare of all Americans for their own gain. They have already done this. Sure, there may be a few good politicians, but dang few. They are like chameleons, they change the minute they are elected. I don’t believe any of them paid much attention to the Constitution. Oh yeah, they probably checked the Constitution once in a while to see what they could get by with. I don’t trust any of them.

  • Bob from Tucson

    I live in Tucson and am outraged with the dis-information about SB1070. I think we should adopt and rigidly enforce Mexico’s Immigration Law on our Southern border.

    • Al Sieber

      I agree with you Bob, i live N.W. of you, it’s the same pretty much over the whole state. we are the only country in the world with open borders, left open for a reason? I applaud Jim Clark for standing up for the 1st amemd. and screw the Suns.

      • airangel

        I think Israel needs to teach Homeland Security how to enforce and control our Southern Border!

        • http://personalliberty PFFFF

          Is that freedom? Not to me!

          • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

            Exactly what is freedom to you?

          • http://personalliberty PFFFF

            It’s not a police state.

          • DaveH

            Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t you support Big Government, PFFFF?
            Government is Force, not Reason.

          • meteorlady

            Not freedom to you? Are you illegals, a criminal? Enforcing the laws of the United States is freedom to me – freedom from drug wars on our borders, freedom for our children to get a quality education in their own language (ENGLISH), freedom to not pay for free loaders and criminal, freedom to be able to walk my property without fear of drug dealers and smugglers assaulting me. Oh heck why argue…. You won’t change your mind anyway.

          • Save America Susie

            I think sometimes it is just that people have not lived long enough to experience WHY we need to enforce our legal laws. They have never had a negative experience to SHOW THEM the necessity for laws. Anarchy = Chaos. Responsible Laws = Freedom. That is why we have a police force. #1 purpose = for protection of the innocent.

    • Angel

      Angel from Tucson…Bob, I agree!

    • http://aol wayne a

      bob,you’re damn right!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Allan

      Exactly…why would progressives want to give rights to a country that won’t give the same rights to us? Answer, give them time, and they’ll try to make other countries just as politically correct.

  • http://personalliberty PFFFF

    I think USA is the ONLY country to grant citizenship to a newborn child solely because it was born on her soil. Change that.
    Stop hiring illegal immigrants. Change that.
    Received this in the mail:
    Subject: Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

    From a California school teacher – - -

    “As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of.

    I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

    Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

    Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I’m not talking a glass of milk and a roll — but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.

    I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.

    I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America …

    I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students, here in the country less than 3 months, who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them “Putas” (whores) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.

    Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

    To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

    Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I’ll pay more for tomatoes.

    Americans, We need to wake up.

    It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It involves an American third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about “political correctness” that we don’t have the will to do anything about it.

    If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

    CHEAP LABOR? Isn’t that what the whole immigration issue is about?

    Business doesn’t want to pay a decent wage.

    Consumers don’t want expensive produce.

    Government will tell you Americans don’t want the jobs.

    But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase “cheap labor” is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as “cheap labor.”

    Take, for example, an illegal with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an “earned income credit” of up to $3,200 free.

    He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

    He qualifies for food stamps.

    He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

    His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

    He requires bilingual teachers and books.

    He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

    If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicaid. All of this is at (our) taxpayer’s expense.

    He doesn’t worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

    Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

    He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

    Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after paying their bills and his.

    Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!

    THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY. AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON’T DO AS THEY SAY (or what we ask?), WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM .

    Please pass this on to as many as possible. Immigration legislation is to be considered in 2010. This is important to working Americans, our economy and our American culture and heritage..

    • Jim Silva

      AMEN!!!!

    • Smalls Biggie

      Reply to PFFF. Wow! Thanks for sharing and including so much relevant content. I have been a school teacher for over 20 years. In my school system it is against the rules to check for residency status or citizenship of any student at any time for any reason. All student are enrolled who show up at the door. The only things required are a declaration from an adult that they currently live in the district; and a TB test. The status of the adult is not checked. They will wave the first requirement, if an adult will not participate. Name, age, birthplace, and parentage are also not checked or verified.

      The main stated reason for this undocumented policy is that students might not attend if they (and the adults) felt they would be identified and get in trouble; and that it is better for the kids to be in school than to not be in school.

      I would assume this is the policy of ever school system in the nation. As noted by PFFF, the schools are also the conduit for federally funded food programs. Again the reasoning would be that it is better for the nation as a whole for the kids to be well fed, if they are going to be here anyway.

      It is my belief that the main reasons these policies exist is that more money comes into the school systems from the State and Federal levels. It is all based on numbers. More students mean more jobs for teachers, administrators, and support staff. We all know the Teachers Union is the largest, best funded, and most influential in the country by far. They will do anything in their power to get as many students into their systems as possible. If they had their way, they would incourage as much illeagle immigration as possible and as many babies born regardless of the mother’s age as possible.

      It’s job security, and better pay–plain and simple.

      I estimate that about 20% of all the students in my system for 20+ years have come across the Mexican boarder illegally, or were born from parents of illegal status. Our system is on the East Coast-mid Atlantic.

      • JC

        Thanks for the perspective.

    • 2WarAbnVet

      Great read! People on the front lines should have an even greater audience.

    • Factman

      Canada, along with many other countries, also have citizenship by Birthright. Many European countries have modified Jus Soli laws.

      You can read more about it here.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

      • http://personalliberty PFFFF

        I believe this refers to legal immigration not illegal aliens from your cited website. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

        The US says BORN IN or naturalized.

        Thanks.

        Modification of jus soli
        In a number of countries, the automatic application of jus soli has been modified to impose some additional requirements for children of foreign parents, such as the parent being a permanent resident or having lived in the country for a period of time. Jus soli has been modified in the following countries:

      • Jeff

        As a Canadian, you might want to read up again on our laws. We changed them some time back and they are quite specific. We also changed them to read that you must have means of support before you can enter our country. The US is so dumbed down that they are accepting new immigrants that head straight for the social services offices for their handouts. These people are the becoming a drain on you system as well as the illegals that you so opening invite to your country.

      • Sally

        True, my son was born in Turkey and had dual citizenship until he was 21 years of age and if he would have stepped on Turkish soil even as a US citizen when he was between the ages of 17 and 21, he would immediately have been enlisted in the Turkish military. I don’t think we have any problems with the dual citizenship part of the birth what we have a problem with is all the freebees that go along with it – SSI until that child is 18, free medical, etc. etc. etc. None of the other countries that offer dual citizenship rights offer all the welfare benefits – that is the main problem, As the article says “Cheap Tomatoes” is not true.

    • Another Voice

      You’re right about ‘cheap labor’ not being cheap at all. However, the employers who hire illegals do benefit greatly from it. It’s the taxpayers who foot the bill. This is the mantra of the Republican Party – let big businesses make big profits and keep their taxes LOW, while the working class shoulders the financial consequences of theses policies. To me, this idea is just as wrong as allowing illegals to work here in the first place.

      • meteorlady

        Stop witht

      • meteorlady

        Stop with the blame game – it’s been going on forever. The 1986 amnesty just proliferated it because they now all believe that they can come here illegally and get rewarded. In 1986 84% of those legalized were granted that status through fraud because there were not enough people in the government to process the 2 million or so applications.

        Today all the same arguments are being used to persuade us to do it again. The most important argument/promise made in 1986 was they our borders would be secured and this would never happen again. Boy were we lied to on that one. 10 years after 1986 amnesty, most of these legalized immigrants were still receiving at least some type of social assistance and were adding 10 million to our deficit each year (that was in 1986 dollars).

      • http://aol wayne a

        another voice,part of the problem in the US is idiots like you.how in the hell are going to blame this mess on just republicans? both parties are to blame! but lets see,since obama has been in office newsweek said that even with the US’s economy being in a recession,the flow of illegals has continued to increase.reason being,they get free welfare and are banking on obama to give them amnesty and citizenship.why would obama and his croonies do this? VOTES!he has already admitted in interviews that he may be a one term pres. and this is a way to insure he gets re-elected!

      • Dexter60

        Another Voice::
        “However, the employers who hire illegals do benefit greatly from it.”
        That is a bogus bit of assumption: costs to businesses are paid by the consumer, all else is eye-wash.

        “It’s the taxpayers who foot the bill.” bottom line indeed.
        “This is the mantra of the Republican Party – let big businesses make big profits and keep their taxes LOW, while the working class shoulders the financial consequences of theses policies.”
        That is the democrap mantra. There are parasites in all parties.

        I do agree that no matter the song and dance it is “… just as wrong as allowing illegals to work here in the first place.”
        But it is the ‘progressive’ government, with the biggest payroll in the state of California, spending 60 Billion dollars each year on ‘education’ that needs the swollen pond of leeches to put upon the working people and at the same time expand and tighten their grip on the reins of power.
        Getting the picture now? there is not any one handy label that can cover all the variations of these modern fascists in post-racial America.
        Have a nice day.

    • VMCox

      A good portion of this letter from the school teacher is untrue. If you don’t have a social security number, you can’t file for earned income credit. Most illegal immigrants do not receive assistance. Some of the contention that only immigrants will do the work, is true. Recently a very large orchard in central Washington, was subjected to a “papers check” resulting in 1/3 reduction in the population of a nearby town and the loss of many trained workers. The orchardist advertised the jobs at $12 to $16 per hour, with an average production bonus bringing the pay to an average of $18/$20 per hour. No one applied. He is now flying H2-A visa workers in from Jamaca, the first 50 arrived last week. Regular Americans do no want to pick fruit, period, even for $20 per hour.

      • Vicki

        Then offer them $30 hr. There is a price for which there will be US workers. Especially in the current unemployment environment.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Vicki,
          When younger, I picked apples, tomatoes, and asparigus and for a lot less then that. We have college kids here right now working for a lot less to go to college. Pay them the 12 to 20 dollars an hour. Have you seen tuition lately? I have! I have a kid in college going for her bachelors then her doctorate!! I don’t believe his contention that they are paying 20 dollars an hour.12 to 15 maybe, but not 20!

      • Angel

        Had it have been near my daughter, she would have loved it. She is an all American girl who even did corn detassling. So you can’t say ALL!

        • Claire

          Angel–Your statement brought back memories. When I was in my teens I detasseled corn and it was hotter than Hades. But I made some money and that was all I cared about. And I bought all the clothes I could!! lol

          • Save America Susie

            Angel & Claire, I AGREE with both of you. Left-winger people would be surprised that their argument about the Legal people not wanting the lower paying jobs, because its beneath them, is false! The fact is: they have not been given a chance to show they would work, as the illegals OFTEN have these jobs. Look back to the 1930′s when the dust bowl hit. Everyone was starving, and took what work they could. A lot of mid-west whites who were born here, and lost their farms from the dust, were doing these jobs and thanking God for it. Its in the history books! But I wonder if this new crop of kids even gets to read that history of ours. A lot of our history is left out these days!

          • Claire

            Susie–I had to pass a horrific test on the Constitution and Bill of Rights before I could graduate from high school. And I kid you not, there were several kids that didn’t pass and guess what?? They didn’t graduate!! I hear kids nowadays do not even have this type of test before they graduate. The history they learn now must be next to nothing.
            I also remember a whole bunch of us seniors skipped school one afternoon before graduation. We went to the old swimming hole over by Berdan, IL. When we got to school the next morning, we were called into the office. The principal, Mr. Wilson reprimanded us and sent us home! He also told us he was not sure we would graduate! He sure put the fear of God in us!! Talk about squalling and bawling! My Mother was fit to be tied. Boy I sure got into trouble over that one. Needless to say, Mr. Wilson let us graduate because we were “good kids.” I saw him several years ago at the mall here in town–he gave me a hug. Then the next thing I knew, he had died.
            There I go, rambling again! Sorry.

      • meteorlady

        As someone that was born in Washington state and moved out because of high taxes, I can believe what you say. However, with the high unemployment rate in that state maybe the state should make the people accepting unemployment take those jobs? Don’t you find it odd that if they are offering so much money that people on welfare that are able to work would not want those jobs? Don’t you find it odd that those on unemployment might want those jobs?

        Orchard owners make a hugh amount of money. I know that for a fact – but they also take risks that their crops will not turn out well. I believe if you take statistics from the Yakima Valley you will find that the crime rates have steadily risen there, the illegal population has grown and spilled over into the construction trades on the West side, education levels are low, that the welfare roles have increased with the migrant population, that there are drug growing operations now conducted on private land, where automatic weapons have been found, and that there is generally more poverty in that area.

      • WarriorH

        Actually, many do obtain fake SS numbers and if they do receive a paycheck with taxes withheld the government actually is aware of the multiples of the same number being used. They just choose to ignore this fact.

      • Sally

        You are incorrect on the earned income credit. Any good tax preparation service lie Liberty Tax etc., can get you a temporary number and file your taxes as long as you have your passport and papers (not green card or any of those papers) Of course to get the earned income credits, you have had to have income supported by a W2.

      • http://aol wayne a

        VMCOX,where did you get your references from,i want to verify it? lol theres not a bit of truth to what you said.first,have you ever heard of fake or stolen ID’s?according to newsweek at least 58% of the illegals are getting welfare and it increases even higher if they have a anchor baby.two weeks ago in the LA Times there was an article published that said only 2% of the illegals work in the fields!VMCOX,make it up? VMCOX,are you illegal too?

      • GlennAz

        I am 70 and when growing up in the 40s and 50s there was no such thing as a job an American wouldn’t do. We all raced each other to get any job. The only reason there are jobs Americans won’t do is the welfare system pays them more.

        • Vicki

          And punishes the welfare recipient by totally removing the “support” when they earn even a little money. Well it was that way. I have no idea how it is now but that effect caused lots of folk to look at min wage jobs and realize they were better off not working at all.

        • Winnie

          GlennAz, that is so true. Welfare will eventually break the country. It is because of welfare that our young people don’t take education seriously and for that, the government should have some really strict rules. Here in Canada, or rather in Ontario, Canada, if a person has not got a job within three months, then he or she is on their own. Now with teen pregnancies, welfare is stuck with the young mothers until the child is of daycare age. Even though I lean more to the left, I firmly believe that people should take their responsibilities seriously. How much better off we would be if we had no choice but to grow up and become responsible for our actions and our families.

      • Rod the Other

        VMCOX ….YOUR WRONG.
        This notion that these are jobs that Americans won’t do is absurd. This same arguement was used to explain why the Tyson Chicken processing plant was hiring ILLEGALS. AN immigration raid to place and hundereds of their workers were arrested and removed. The next day Tyson put an ad out to hire replacement and they had over 3,000 people respond and the jobs were filled by weeks end.
        This is another one of those LIBERAL lies.

        If we enforced the law and broke the back of any company that hired ILLEGALS these companies would no longer seek the competitive advantage the cheap labor provides and they would once again pay the age that the market place set through fair competition.

        For example:
        In 1980 the market rate for an Electrician was around $20/hr. Today the market rate for an electrician is $20/hr…Why? Because ILLEGALS are willing to do the work for less, usually under the table, and they have suppressed the wages for that skill. This is one of the most devistating effects ILLAGES are having on our economy (NOT TO MENTION HOW THEY ALSO SEND THEIR EARNINGS TO THE MEXICAN ECONOMY AND NOT OURS).

    • Randy Goeman

      Also could be said that I on $1400 a month disability lost a good chunk of medical assistance BECAUSE I make too much. Now I pay more for medical, prescriptions insurance & co-pays. BUT I didn’t get a COLA this year but illegals get it for FREE!!!

  • CHUCKY

    I just do not understand why there is any debate over this. What part of ILLEGAL is not understood. The mainstream media will still try to browbeat the public every night on the news in favor of amnesty. If I break the law I must pay fines and/or be imprisioned.What makes ILLEGAL ALIENS ABOVE THE LAW? IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE OF GOVERNMENT IN MEXICO THEN GO BACK THERE AND CHANGE IT. The media will spew their propeganda at us (example:The cute little school girl asking Michelle Obama about her mother not having papers, T.V. sitcom featuring an ILLEGAL ALIEN as a funky fresh cool dude who would not hurt a fly)
    When they do that,All I think about is that murdered rancher’s grandchildren who lost their grandfather. The latest statistics show that 12 AMERICAN CITIZENS A DAY DIE AT THE HANDS OF AN ILLEGAL ALIEN(GOOGLE IT NON BELEIVERS)And while we are at it Where are the womans groups that should be against this for the rapes and sex murders comitted by ILLEGALS. What is the #1 function you should expect from your government. Is it bailouts of banks and corporations? Is it making sure that you eat the right things? or is it protecting it’s citizens from invasion on United States soil? The answer is pretty easy unless you have no common sense left. NO MATTER HOW THEY SPIN IT,NO MATTER HOW THEY SUGAR COAT IT. SETTLE FOR NOTHING LESS THEN SEALING OUR BORDERS AND DEPORTING ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS. If only one American job is given to an ILLEGAL ALIEN instead of an American citizen in our economy now, it is a tragedy.

    • Dave

      No one is saying anybody is perfect. How many Americans are killed by other Americans each day. What some people ARE saying is that if someone who is here illegally has gainful employment and can prove it then they should have the right to a path to citizenship. If someone is a drug dealer or outlaw they would not be able to become a citizen. That way we can separate the illegal aliens who are here for good reasons from those here for bad. There is really no other way to do it. Do you really think we can build a 30 foot fence all the way across the southern border? How do you propose we stop illegal immigration? Should we have 100,00 troops on the border at all times? Should this be a police state? That sounds a lot like East Berlin doesn’t it? Wasn’t that an oppressive communist country? Aren’t we better than that? Are human rights NOT a priority? With NAFTA millions of Mexican corn farmers were put out of work because of how much farmers here are subsidized by the government with tax payer dollars. The corn is so cheap that the Mexican farmers couldn’t compete. Many of them end up coming here to work in horrid conditions just to feed their families. I’m not saying we open the border up as a free for all, I’m just saying that we need to consider all options and think about this rationally instead of emotionally. Remember, we’re all immigrants to this country.

      • http://yahoo.com marc

        Russia built the east berlin wall to keep people in because all were leaving headed for west berlin/life/liberty/pursuits,Dave. We should have built a militarized wall thirty years ago. Instead,president jimmy carter(mommy’s peanut brain)proposed amnesty to all illegal mexiroaches from communist mexico. Illegal entry is what it is. Whether its someone breaking into your home or breaking into our country. I don’t want them here. The federal government gave el president’ calderown the red carpet treatment and I was truly ashamed of obama/democraps and the truly discusting way this commie turd was welcomed. All he did was complain about arizona’s new law. Obama’s speech made me want to puke. Had I been there I would have thrown my shoes at him.

      • DaveH

        If you don’t like the immigration laws, Dave, then work to rescind them or change them so that legal entry isn’t so onerous. But please don’t advocate that people who break them should be rewarded. That is not the voice of reason, that is the voice of foolishness. No good can come from looking the other way when people willingly ignore the laws.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          DaveH,
          Sheriff Joe Aripaio said in an interview that if immigration won’t take the ones arrested in Arizona he won’t worry as he has more military style tents to erect!! He said let this law go into effect in July and have the government say they can’t arrest them. He will still arrest them!! He said he is sworn to serve and protect the people of Arizona and protect them he will!!

      • meteorlady

        Dave you are such a dreamer. Whose going to do all that. In 1986 84% of the people that applied for amnesty did so with false documentation and thus receiving their legal status through fraud.

      • http://aol wayne a

        first dave,i am not a immigrant,i’m a naturalized citizen as is most of us! why should we reward these parasites that broke our laws by coming here? in most countries they would be imprisoned for yrs. or shot! they have taken every freebie that our ignorant gov.will give them and hasn’t gave a damn thing in return.they have depleated our welfare system,our schools,our hospitals,our gov. subsidized housing…..they sent back 32 billion back to mex last yr., pay no taxes,they refuse to speak our language,adopt our customs,conform to our society,increase our crime rate.illegals is one reason the economy and gov. programs have been slow to recover.i’ll tell you how to protect our borders,put up many,many signs then mine it.cheap fix!

    • Allan

      Progressives want to to re-define civilization. They don’t let laws, traditions, productivity, property rights, sovereignty, or you paying for it stand in their way.

  • Ken Roberts

    It embarrasses me when someone like that speaks , he is a fellow human being and he is insulting every human on earth when he says that we need no more proof than some judge citing the 14th . the 14th has never been challenged in court and until it is it will remain as law . It being right or wrong has never been decided by the supreme court or any other court, if it has not been ratified it needs to be challenged and soon as we have a large supply of babies that need to go home with mom an dad,. darn I wished I’d thought of the t-shirt; I could use the extra money ,rats.

  • William Wu

    This country is free because of the Rule of Law. This does not mean everything is correct or wrong. It means everyone has the same right and if challenged has to fight for it in court. Good examples are the Civil Rights challenges, Women Right to vote, and also would you believe the 14th Amendment clause?

    • http://aol wayne a

      WU,the 14th amen. has never been challenged in court yet,but it soon will.lawyers have been working out of loopholes which soon will be closed.next our constitution guarantees american citizen’s rights,AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!!!!!

  • Wayne

    From reading the ranting and raving of your selfish,territorialneoconservative agenda I have concluded that you are a “Bigot”.

    • http://personalliberty PFFFF
    • DaveH

      And from your sweeping generalization, I have concluded that you are Ignorant.

    • meteorlady

      I just love it when you talk dirty to me…..

      When all else fails and there is not argument or reasonable explanation use the term “bigot”. Tiresome, and it does not show your superiority, it shows your lack of class and the inability to form a complete and rational comment that makes some sort of sense.

      • DaveH

        Get him, Lady!

        • meteorlady

          Thanks Dave H… I was amused that day I must admit.

      • JC

        It shows that they have no morality and no logic going for them so they resort to that same ol thing…race baiting. It’s about all they’ve got.

  • Richard Brito

    CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.

    • Ed

      Then let them go HOME and get their charity.

      • Claire

        Ed–I agree.

      • Barb

        Ed, AMEN!

      • http://personalliberty PFFFF

        Actually that is right on the money!!!

      • Vicki

        I think that was Richard’s point. At least it should have been :)

      • Angel

        And when it is FORCED on the taxpayer, it ceases to be charity!

        • Save America Susie

          Exactly!!!

        • JC

          Sometimes the law defends plunder and participates in it. Thus the beneficiaries are spared the shame and danger that their acts would otherwise involve… But how is this legal plunder to be identified? Quite simply. See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them and gives it to the other persons to whom it doesn’t belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen himself cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish that law without delay … No legal plunder; this is the principle of justice, peace, order, stability, harmony and logic.
          Frederic Bastiat

    • del

      Viva Los Deportation

  • Mary

    As a legal immigrant, coming here the right way, learning the language, adopting the culture, I feel insulted by the American government every time I see any illegal immigrant! I did everything right but I don’t have the same privilege that they have. I don’t have free health care, I am not allowed food stamps, my only right is to go to work and pay my taxes, so that these people can live in this country for free and laugh at you and I! I came here for the American dream, for free enterprise, for the pride of the country, but this is fading away so fast, it’s scary! (please excuse my English, but at least I do speak English!)

    • George E

      Bless you.

    • Dave

      Welcome to the US. Everyone here appreciates that you did it the right way. One of the advantages you have in being here is the right to express your opinion. In this country hard work can be rewarded and I wish you success. If hard times were to fall on you and you could no longer work you would be eligible for the same types of social welfare programs as the people you are speaking of. Free lunch and healthcare sound great but that’s not quite the case. You would have to go to an emergency room or clinic for your care and not everything is covered. Also, you have to live in a neighborhood with a very high crime rate and horrible conditions. Those free school lunches are only for the Children in school too, not the whole family. I hope you never need these services. I hope you get the American dream which is much different from welfare. It’s the ability to achieve what you set your mind and work hard to get.

    • DaveH

      Excuse your English, Mary? It’s much better than most I’ve seen on this board.

    • meteorlady

      Thank you Mary for choosing our country. We welcome you and hope you stay long and have a good life here.

    • http://aol wayne a

      mary,welcome to America,you did it the right way.

    • bp

      There’s nothing wrong with your English!

    • American Liberal

      Mary… Who was president when you entered America?.. And what were the requirements to become a citizen.. What a nice story… I’ve seen a couple on other sites just like yours..can. You tell me your native language?…I’m getting feeling this post is a little suspect… You seem to be trashing our government on one side of your mouth and on the other saying you came here for the American dream… I’m not buying your story…

      • libertytrain

        American Liberal – If you had a good or any real understanding of what people go through to get here (the ones that do it legally) you might have a grasp as to why Mary would be chagrined that our government doesn’t give a flying rat’s rear about the illegals coming in like flies – just wants to make it very difficult for those who did it/are trying to do it the legal way -

      • meteorlady

        What a sad person you are. Even if Mary were not for real as you maintain. Let just take fake Mary. Mary had to go through lots to get here LEGALLY. She had to wait in line for a long time. She had to have medical examinations. She had to submit a lot of personal information. She had to forego a cursory background check. I worked at Immigration for 5 years and know the steps. Maybe go and study up on it and see, then look at the quotas, etc. Might help you to better understand your country instead of sticking to one point of view.

        The immigration laws are there to protect the citizens of this country from economic hardship as the result of immigration, terrorists, and to protect the general public from new diseases. Is that aim being served by the mass influx across our southern borders?

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Mary,
      god Bless you and yours! Thank you from the bottom of my heart for using the legal and proper way!!

  • Richard Brito

    YOU SUPPORT THE WORLD,…I CAN’T.

    • airangel

      @Brito – Why can’t you support “Legal Immigration”? I would really like to know

      • http://aol wayne a

        airangel,in principal,we support LEGAL IMMIGRANTION,but not these illegal parasites and cockroaches streaming across our borders illegally!

      • meteorlady

        I support legal immigration, but feel there is a need to reassess our entrance requirements and quotas. Canada has done so in the past. They did this because they were being over-run with people sponsored by churches that were not capable of making there own way in the new country.

        We have entire populations of immigrants now that still don’t speak English, live in subsidized housing, receive free medial, food stamps and welfare. The have their own communities, their own bankers (don’t have to show income) and they are not assimilating into our society.

        I guess I object to people that come here with their hands out when we have come to the point where we are laying off fire, police and teachers in order to keep supporting the non-productive people that live here. A lot of immigrants have made it through hard work and sheer determination and I applaud them. I hope that they keep coming here, but if the churches want to sponsor them, then the churches should be the ones to support them. Anyone that sponsors an immigrant should be responsible for them, not me as I had no choice or voice in the original decision.

  • hflashman

    The 14th being an illegal amendment??? And the basis for this claim is…? Amazing…simply amazing.

    So the speeches go on about punishing some poor slob who is doing nothing more than we preach every day …”Get a job”. And not one post as yet has centered on the reeal core issue. American employers who break the law with impunity knowing whatever fines are levied, the bottom line profits remain.

    The solution is simple…anyone who knows, or should have known, they were employing uncodumented workers…goes to the county clink for 30 days. No suspended sentence on appeal..nada.

    No one will want to suffer the social indignity of jail time.

    No jobs, no reason to come here. So why isn’t this pushed as a solution ?

    So…my challenge to the posters here. Why are you not as rabid in ounishing the Ameicans who blatantly violate the law as you are wanting to punish the poor slob looking for a job?

    • Ed

      Actually, the real problem is our welfare stste. We do not require those on welfare to work. If we did, there would not be jobs for all the illegals. If no welfare then American citizens, who now draw welfare, food stamps, and housing and sit at home would then have to work to eat, have tv, a place to sleep, etc.

      • Dave

        Do you really think everybody could have a job if they just weren’t so lazy?

        • DaveH

          Duh, yes. If the Government wasn’t wasting our financial and material resources for their mostly anti-productive efforts, jobs would available for all who wanted to work.

        • airangel

          @Dave, not everyone…some disabled have truly legitimate reasons for not being able to work, however, a much larger percentage are ABLE TO WORK and choose not to…Welfare needs term limits and requirements for getting funds such as training, weekly check-ins, legal citizenship, e-verification to prove the right people are getting the help, drug testing, etc. With let’s say a 2 year term limit, this would pay for itself as it would not be “indefinite” funds to lazy, unproductive citizens…many would HAVE to work and “pay it forward” if they knew after 2 years their funds would dry up but they would be prepared and trained in a field to get a job…when you empower people to take care of themselves you liberate them rather than keep them dependent and dumbed down.

          • Sally

            Believe it or not, the Repblicans under GWB changed the welfare laws that to receive your check you either had to be in school learning a trade or working to get your check. Guess who wants to change this law back to the way it was – HMMMMMMM let me think. You are right if you selected the Obama congress. In fact it is up for vote as I write. It’s amazing when you et in tune with YouCut put out by Mr. Cantor the Republican Whip in the House. You even get to vote on what you would like cut, every week!!!!!!! there is a list of 5 items. If you sign up, you even get the House Schedule for the week. Man is that an eye opener in itself or the garbage that takes up Congress’s time and energy. I think if I am not mistaken, Congress is on recess now so the incumbents can go home to campaign. You are right —- we are paying for this also. If I ran my business like Congress and the other politicians run this country, I would be out of business and in the slammer to boot.

          • DaveH

            Angel,
            What happens if after two years they still aren’t willing to work? Will you care any less if they are going hungry? Will you then let them starve in the streets?
            I have immense compassion for truly handicapped people, but they should be helped with voluntary contributions, not involuntary contributions from taxpayers. It is not the Government’s money to give. And of course they are going to give our money more freely because it is not their own. So, in many cases the distribution of those funds is done wastefully. If we got the government out of it, and so many other things they are into, there would be plenty of money available from private charities for the truly needy. But in the case of private charities, the donors would expect the money not to be wasted on people who really are capable of working but just don’t want to suffer the negatives of working.

        • meteorlady

          If I ran out of money and had to eat and find shelter I have two options – steal or work. It’s just that simple. If I got no welfare, food stamp, free medical when I am perfectly able to work I would find work. My father worked three jobs at one time to pay for a hospital bill. He never once sought government help as it was considered bad to do that because in his opinion “there were people that really needed those services” and he was able to work. He never once considered declaring bankruptcy and skipping out on his obligations he just paid off the bill.

          Now we have generations like you Dave that believe we all owe each other a living whether we work or don’t work. Maybe you should open you house to those poor unfortunates that have a big screen TV, free food, free medical and all the other services that my government provides. We would have less of a deficit if you and all you progressive/liberal friends did the same.

          A though just occurred to me – why did you change your name to “progressive”? You used to be just liberals – is there something wrong now with that label?

          • mary high

            YOU ARE SO RIGHT ON. ASK ANY INTELLIGENT BLACK LEADER WHO LOVES AMERICA AND IS PATRIOT HOW WELFARE DESTROYED MANY BLACK FAMILIES. NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD. I SEE WELFARE LADIES WITH THEIR HAIR DONE IN BEAUTY PARLORS, THEIR NAILS IN THE SAME PLACE, WEARING RICH JEWLERY, AND DRIVING NICE CARS. MOST OF THESE WOMEN STAY UP ALL NIGHT AND PARTY FOR THEY DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO WORK. THEY PARTY AND IGNORE THEIR CHILDREN. THEY THROW THEM OUT WHILE THEY SLEEP IN THE MORNINGS AFTER PARTYING AND THE KIDS PEE IN THE HALLWAYS AND GOOD PEOPLE WHO SEE THEM OUTSIDE ALL MORNING WITHOUT CARE AND THEN THE MOTHERS WONDER WHY THEIR KIDS ARE KILLING EACH OTHER. I LIVED IN MANY COMMUNITIES WEHRE LOW INCOME HOUSING WAS BUILT AND RUINED THE GOOD, SAFE COMMUNITIES. GOD HELP US.

        • bp

          Absolutely! Not too many years ago, we could choose among job offers! Now, with a 10% unemployment rate, LEGAL Americans will appreciate the jobs illegals will leave behind! Minimum wage is better than no wage.
          It’s all supply and demand. The government is growing, the private sector is shrinking; this is unsustainable; one funds the other.

    • Barb

      hflashman, Most of the illegal immigrants are NOT poor slobs looking for jobs. They are here to sell drugs and set up gangs. Here to cause mayhem and murder period! The ones who want jobs and want to stay come over legally. BIG difference wouldn’t you say????? That’s why the big push to stop it. If they come for other reasons it’s to have their babies here and to get free everything as a result. Either way we don’t need to take care of Mexico’s throw aways. Why do you think Caulderon is so adamant about us taking them in? He doesn’t want to pay for them either. We are not the worlds babysitter and we don’t owe these people anything. If they come legally they are welcome otherwise get the hell out!

      • Claire

        Barb–Good post, and oh so truthful.

      • Mick for thought

        Barb,

        Please check the stats. The vast majority of illegals work for peanuts, live 3 families to a home and send money to family in Mexico. Their kids learn english and do well in school.

        • DaveH

          You can provide us with those stats?

          • Rod the Other

            Mick….YOUR WRONG
            They take any job they can get and the more jobs they fill, the more they get because those occupying a position seek to hire other ILLEGALS. It is the famous SLOW ERROTION that Liberals/Progressives are famous for.

            YOU NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.

            How about Fastfood jobs? These jobs used to be occupied by teenagers and 20 somethings looking for their first experience in the job market or college kids working their way through college.
            Who do you see behind the counter at the local burger joint now….? You see middle aged Hispanic women (and sometimes men) that barely speak English.

            In LA, California the DWP (Dpet. of Water & Power) was just caught last year with having numerous ILLEGALS working for them. Many of them were making 6 figure incomes!!!!!! 1 of the Supervisors was making over $250,000!!!!
            THEY ARE STEALING AMERICAN JOBS…THEY USUALLY OBTAIN THESE JOBS WITH STOLEN ID!!!! Try and tell me that they not not having devistating effects on the lives of those whom they steal ID’s from!

          • Save America Susie

            Rod the Other, Good points. If you go to the northern U.S you see all American-born TEENS working these fast food jobs!

          • DaveH

            Mick,
            Your stats have almost nothing to do with your original comment, except perhaps the generic “work for peanuts”. Mind you, I am not one of those who thinks they are taking jobs away. But they are here working for those lower wages because it is better than they can do in their homeland. Nobody is forcing them to work for those low wages. They can’t get jobs in Mexico because Mexico’s economy is heavily regulated, like the Liberals want for our economy.
            Kudos to them for tolerating multi-family jobs to get ahead. The irony is that if they do become successful they will be attacked by those same Liberals who say they feel compassion for them.
            But still, above all, they are currently breaking the law. We either need to make it easier for them to work here or enforce the law. If we look the other way when they come here illegally, we are just encouraging lawlessness, the ultimate result of which is chaos.

          • DaveH

            I meant Multi-family homes (brain lapse).

        • meteorlady

          Please provide me with the link for those stats because in my area of the world that isn’t true at all.

          We are doing Habitat homes in my county. The lots we are buying up are in what was once a drug infested hell hole – mostly illegals living in trailer houses. They didn’t work, they robbed the houses in the nearby housing developments while people were at work. They sold drugs off their porches and the police were shot at when they entered that community. We have now built our 50th house and most all the illegals, drug dealers, home invasion experts, and other criminals have moved on. And guess what Dave and all you liberals – we did it without government help of any kind.

          • Mick for thought

            How they stack up

            Illegal immigrants tend to work in fields that require unskilled labor and little education. Native-born workers are more likely to have jobs that require more advanced skills and education.
            Undocumented workers Native-born workers
            Service occupations 31.0% 16.0%
            Construction 19.0% 6.0%
            Production, installation, repair 15.0% 10.0%
            Sales and administration 12.0% 27.0%
            Management, business and professional 10.0% 35.0%
            Transportion, moving 8.0% 6.0%
            Farming, other 4.0% 0.5%

            Source: Pew Hispanic Center • Print this

            Undocumented workers

            Illegal immigrants make up about 5 percent of the U.S. labor force, but account for 20 percent or more of the work force in some menial occupations, including house cleaners, dishawashers and meat processors.
            Percent of jobs held by undocumented workers
            Insulation workers 36%
            Roofers 29%
            Drywall installers 28%
            Meat, fish, chicken processing 27%
            Brick and stone masons 25%
            Dishwashers 23%
            Mainds, housekeepers 22%
            Cooks 20%
            Laundry workers 15%

            Source: Pew Hispanic Center • Print this

          • meteorlady

            Wait – some of those job you listed were not menial. They used to pay quite well in fact. Where I live they are working as roofers (used to pay around $18/25 per hour, now pays $8/10), bricklayers (used to pay around $30 not pays around $10/12), laying foundations ($15/20 per hour, now $7/10). So, when a US citizens wants that job they now have to take those wages. Add to that the fact that the vast majority of these people are not paying taxes and sending money out of the country. Sorry, don’t feel at all sorry for them, feel sorry for the family man trying to make a living when he has to pay taxes, insurance and licenses in some instances.

            I know that they take a lot of menial jobs, but I have also been working with 27 high schoolers trying to get summer jobs for them to save for college. Can’t find them. After two months, only 2 of the students have found a summer job. Most have given up. There are also adults in my community that will take any job right now just to keep their family afloat so don’t ask me to feel sorry for criminals that knowingly come here and break our laws.

        • del

          Mick have you lost your damn mind. They bring home more than we do on average. You can not not factor in their benefits. They got the best benefits in the world. Do you get free insurance? Hell they get that and free food to boot!

        • Rod the Other

          MICK…What is the point of you post? Are yo trying to say they are virtuous? They are invaders and outlaws and that has the biggest impact as to why the live like they live!

          AND WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN THEIR CHILDREN DO WELL IN SCHOOL? That is an out and out LIE! Because they are migrant their children tend to not invest themselves in school. Most of them can’t even get passing grades in a SPANISH class! I know many people that work for school districts and the academic achievement of MOST of these ILLEGAL kids is serioulsy lacking. But of course the MSM wants to make the case that they do well, so they will go find the 1 in a 1,000 that does well and say see this is what they are all like.

          • Mick for thought

            Read Barbs comment about them being murders and drug dealers. That is what I was commenting on.

          • Rod the Other

            MICK …..NO YOU ALSO SAID THEY DO WELL IN SCHOOL….WHICH THEY DO NOT!

            And by the way, I see MINOR flaws in what BARB has written, I give her a 9 out of 10! Anybody who is mildy informed is aware that the primary source of income for an ILLEGAL ALIEN is to engage in crime and smuggling. ALL OF THE MOST VICIOUS AND DANGEROUS LATINO GANGS ARE COMPRISED OF OVER 90% ILLEGAL ALIENS. MS13 (a notorious latin gang) was started in LA, then one of their Head Honchos was caught, extradited to El Salvador, and begin building an empire. Now MS13 spreads from EL Salvador to Los Angles, to NY!
            Do you honestly beleive that most of those that will risk their life in the desert to come here are going to let you or your families life get in their way?

            Did you know that more American Citizens die within our borders, at the hands of ILLEGAL ALIENS, than have died in the last 9 years in Afganistan and Iraq combined?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Mick,
            I suggest you talk to some of the police in Las Vegas NV. There are neighborhoods that they won’t even go into as they are out numbered and out gunned. The Mexican gangs number so high that they control 98% of the crime in that city!!!

          • Save America Susie

            I think its a case of when people don’t see or experience something, it just doesn’t exist for them. Like “see no evil, hear no evil” covering their ears and eyes, because they don’t want to know. They don’t want it to be true.

            It’s the “Ostrich Syndrome”.

      • Dave

        AGAIN, no one is proposing letting drug dealers become citizens. You would have to prove you are here to work and then the INS could spend their time getting rid of the evil doers instead of a family here to work. Where do you get your figures anyway? Is it a generalization? Guess what, most of the people making most of the money in the US off of drugs are rich white guys. Why aren’t they being arrested too? Part of the problem is that gangsters can come here and by guns because of lax regulations but no one cares about that.Let’s separate the illegal aliens that are here for the right reasons frtom the ones that are not and get rid of the bad ones and make sure the others are paying their fair share. Why is that so bad?

        • Pete2sail

          IS THERE SUCH A THING AS GOOD ILLEGAL OR BAD ILLEGAL. I THOUGHT THAT ILLEGAL MEAN’T AGAISNT THE LAW AND THEREFOR ALL BAD??????

          • Dave

            Part of your problem Pete is that the world isn’t that black and white.

          • DaveH

            At least not for Liberals who like lots of laws because they don’t feel they need to comply with them unless they want to. Laws aren’t meant for Intelligent Liberals.

        • meteorlady

          Oh Dave – get friggin real! The INS or ICE doesn’t even come close to having enough people to insure that the illegals are processed and backgrounds are checked. You live in a dream world – our federal government is inept and can’t do anything correctly little loan process some 30 million illegals in this country.

          Here’s a fact for you – 17,500 illegals entered this country last year alone from terrorist countries. Where are they and who are they – don’t know and neither does the government that is supposed to be protecting it’s citizens.

        • Rod the Other

          DAVE…like a typical LIB you make broad claims with absolutely nothing to substantiate it.

          You need to prove that it’s mostly rich white men making most of the money…I think the only way someone can make such a BOLD claim is to have inside info.
          From my vantage point, most of the drugs that are brought into the USA come by way of MEXICO and nothing gets through the crime syndicates down there without the syndicates getting their cut. And if you apply just a little business sense the people closest to the source make the most money….which would mean most of the money is ending up SOUTH OF THE BORDER.
          As far as LAXED gun control laws…Are you suggesting that Americans give up their SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT so M

          • Rod the Other

            SO Mexico doesn’t have to fear American guns in their Country? Did you know that 83% of the guns in Mexico come from places other than the USA? NO, you probably didn’t, because it doesn’t fit your NARRITIVE…i.e. “America is bad and is also the cause of all things bad in the world, if we could just be more considerate of the rest of the world, they might find it in their hearts to hate us a little less, because we caused so much of the poverty around the world”. Do you really understand the impact of how you would have our laws changed?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            rod the Other,
            A very high percentage of the arms in Mexico come from Russia and China via that little pipsqueak of a dictator from South America that Odummer and crew are so enamored with!!!

          • Rod the Other

            JoeH….Yeah isn’t it kinda funny (like not at all) how the MSM and other lefties never seem to mention that little piece of info…Again it doesn’t fit the LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE narrative.

            Also, I stated that about 17% of the guns come from the USA. But even that number isn’t really accurate. The reason it’s not accurate is because although about 17% of the guns that are taken away from the criminals in Mexico do come from the US, about 70% of that 17% (So roughly 12% of the total) come from the Mexican Military. You see, it is common for one of those fine upstanding Mexican citizens the join the Mexican Military to receive training and then not long after they are issued a weapon (Usually an American made M16) they desert the military and go to work for the drug lords, with their Government supplied weaponry and training. SO, long story short…Mexico’s gun problem has nothing to do with AMERICAN gun laws!

        • Rod the Other

          DAVE…HOW THE HELL DO YOU DEFINE AN ILLEGAL THAT IS HERE “FOR THE RIGHT REASONS” VS. ONE THAT IS NOT? If someone’s first act in this Country is to violate our laws, by what stretch of the imagination do you think that they will obey any of our other laws?

          Your justification of allowing open borders is an invitation to allow deseases back into this Country that were irradicated. Whopping cough was all but erased from the countinental US, and now we are seeing an alarming rise in it. And guess where the cases are the highest…That’s right Dave, along the border states where illegal entry is highest…what a shocker huh? But that probably doesn’t fit your narrative of them being “good illegals” does it? Would a “GOOD ILLEGAL” go straight to the doctor for treatment on the taxpayers dime?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            rod,
            Another disease that was completely gone from the US and now since the border is so open ahs seen a comeback is MALARIA!!! If they haven’t changed the treatment for avoiding infection for that since I was in VietNam, believe me you DON’T want to medicate to avoid that!!!
            It would be welcome to a monthly dose of the runs for about three days!!

          • Rod the Other

            This is a serious issue, but you made me laugh joe H…

      • Angel

        I heard it said that Mexico prospers from all the illegals sending money back home to their relatives. That is what Calderon DOESN’T want to stop, the prosperity of Mexico due to our illegals.

        • meteorlady

          Here’s a good one for you. When I worked for Immigration we processed an illegal, put him/her on a bus and sent them home all at taxpayer expense. After they were gone we collected their last paycheck and sent it to them in Mexico. Nice huh? Did you all know that happened?

          They send BILLIONS of your dollars to Mexico every single year so it would stand to reason that the corrupt regime of Calderon wants it to continue.

          • Sally

            Absolutely, just go into any Wal-Mart and go to Customer Service and look what it costs to send a moneygram to Mexico. That is the only foreign country that is listed. Its a big business and the number 1 GNP of Mexico or I should say 2. Dealing in drugs is No. 1 – they don’t want to stop that either because of the revenue. neither side I should add.

        • Rod the Other

          ANGEL…
          This situation is a win-win for Mexico. Noy only do they have Mexican patriots sending money home from the USA, but Govenrment is also saving the cost of having to pay these people with benefits from the Mexican social programs.
          You see, the people from Mexico that come here ILLEGALLY tend to be the poorest and least educated, otherwise they would be able to apply for legal entry. If these people stayed in Mexico, they would be a burden on the Mexican Government. So Mexico is being VERY SHREWD when they encourage IILLEGAL ALIENS

        • Rod the Other

          ANGEL…
          Did you know that Mexican schools teach their students that most of the states the comprise the American South West are theirs?
          They contend that they didn’t cross the border, the border crossed them. They teach something called AZTLAN..look it up…VERY SCARY AND INFURRIATING!

    • DaveH

      Oh sure, we should not punish the law-breakers, but we should punish those who bear witness to the fact that they are breaking the law. So if you have an acquaintance who robs a bank, he should go free, but you should be punished for not reporting him? How logical.

      • Save America Susie

        DaveH, I agree, it is so crazy!!

    • http://aol wayne a

      HFLASHMAN,first the illegal slobs should be punished too!next, until the gov. can come up with a fool proof way of verifying if the documentation the immigrants have is real and not stolen this won’t work.they said fake paperwork is a big issue.

    • Allan

      I think most, if not all conservatives on this site would want to see stiffer punishment for employers. Not sure why you don’t realize this.

    • Rod the Other

      HFLASHMAN…I have been advocating STRONG punishment for employers all along.

      If these companies are willing to seek a competitive edge by breaking the law, then when they are caught the punishment needs to be so severe that it put into jepordy the very existance of the the company.

      I think a fine of a $1,000 per day for every day of SUSPECTED ILLEGAL EMPLOYMENT for every person working for the company illegally. In other words, if they have 5 people that are working there ILLEGALLY and they are SUSPECTED to have been working for the company for 5 days then they pay a fine of $25,000.

  • Barb

    Chip, I have always agreed with you on all three points. Especially the 2nd point. I still can’t figure out why a baby born to two illegals is automatically a US citizen just because it was born here. That is what draws so many to the US and gives them power to stay. It is absurd and needs to be abolished along with several other immigration laws! Kudos to Jim Clark and all the brave rebels out there willing to take the risk of standing up for our rights and our beloved country! I won’t even comment on Wayne’s drivel, he’s not worth my time. Keep up the great work, Chip!

    • Dave

      Is printing a shirt and wearing it to a basketball game really that brave?

      • Barb

        These days? Yes sir it is! Some people get death threats just for wearing OUR flag on their shirts! Wake up!

        • Dave

          Who got a death threat for wearing an American flag on their shirt? That guy was just trying to be a smart ass when he printed that shirt.

          • DaveH

            Smart Ass? I think you are being a Hater, Dave.

          • Barb

            The Suns Organization were the smart asses and they had at least 2 maybe 3 illegals playing for their team! Go figure!!!

          • Angel

            Excuse me, I am a 4th generation white female American who lives in Tucson. I have a black T-shirt that I got when visiting the moving Viet Nam Wall when I was in Iowa that says “Proud to be American”, with an eagle and the American Flag. If looks could have killed. I don’t go out much for this reason. They would just as soon see me dead as to look at me.

          • Save America Susie

            That’s pretty sad, Angel….America is crumbling! Tolerance is no where. Everyone should have the RIGHT to express themselves especially on a T-Shirt that was patriotic, like the Constitution says in Amendment #1.

          • Angel

            Because of the dirty looks that I get here in Tucson, especially when I wear patriotic shirts, I am even afraid to fly my car flag. That is NOT Freedom! When the people is afraid of the government, that is tyranny but when the government is afraid of the people, that is freedom…and I forgot who said that!

          • DaveH

            “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
            Thomas Jefferson

          • Save America Susie

            Angel & DaveH….LOVE IT when those Founding Fathers Quotes are flying! It is PROOF that what we say is truth. Let’s start a Founders Quote trend. Those quotes show: what the “proof of intent” of the Founders really was.

          • Rod the Other

            DAVE…WHO got a death threat?????!!!! How about the 5 highschool students in Northern California that wore an American flag on Cinco De Mayo? They got suspended from school and mobs of ANGRY YOUNG ANCHOR BABIES marching aroundf town during school hours looking for them….But I bet your going to tell me that that wanted to have an intelligent and respectful debate with them and then give htem kisses and hugs….

            Stop making excuses for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
            They don’t want to join and become Americans, THEY WANT TO TAKE OVER THE SOUTH WESTERN USA!

          • Claire

            My gosh, I wear my patriotic t-shirts everywhere. No one says anything to me nor do they give me dirty looks. And if they did, they would sure get a dirty look back. I have a t-shirt with a German Shorthaired Pointer (my breed of dog) and he is holding a stick with a flag on it in his mouth. My family has a lot of patriotic t-shirts because we bought them during Desert Storm. We even put big yellow ribbons/bows on our car antennas. I have a flag on my big old van. I see a lot of patriotic bumper stickers, “Support Our Troops” and “Don’t tread on me.”
            My gosh, I can’t believe some people are so unpatriotic. What is wrong with them? They better stay away from me.
            And don’t make fun of me, I even have a bumper sticker that says: “My Dog is Smarter than Your Honor Student.” I also have bumper stickers that say: ” I Brake For Animals.” “Show Dogs- Do Not Tailgate.” My husband won’t let me put any more on. He said enough was enough. lol

          • Claire

            My post was directed to Angel.

        • http://aol wayne a

          or gets suspened from school like in calif.

      • DaveH

        Yes it is. And fighting to get back into the game after being thrown out by Security is even braver.

  • David

    I couldn’t agree more with your article. God Bless the USA and to hell with it’s so called leaders. Leaders enforce the laws, so what do you call Obama and US Attorney General Eric Holder? But what can I say. This is the worst administration that I have seen in my 57 years on this earth. The so called leaders were sworn into office taking an Oath to Serve and Protect it’s People meaning its Citizens and not illegal immigrants. As far as I am concerened and I am a Citizen born in the USA, if you are a Leader you Serve and Protect, anything else and you are not following the Constitution. What’s that say about our so called leaders? But be careful what you say in this Free Country because from what I understand it’s ok with some people in this country to Fly the American Flag upside down beneath the Mexican flag in total disgrace and break our laws but don’t you dare stand up for the Constitution and the laws that are already on the books. What A CROCK. Where the hell are our REAL LEADERS. I see nothing but the Destruction of our Constitution. How do you like the HOPE AND CHANGE?

    • Mary

      Change…there is, but Hope is gone!

      • Claire

        Mary–Hope is gone? Not for me, I will keep plugging away. I will never give up. Americans MUST show the current and future governments a thing or two. We must let them know we will not tolerate any more political game-playing. WE must be the ones in charge. We are paying their salaries to conduct an orderly and honest government. And they are not doing this, none of them have conducted an honest and orderly government. Face it, we are in for the fight of our lives.

    • Claire

      David— I don’t believe we have had any real leaders for decades. Hope and change will not work since America is in such a shambles and has been for years. It took years to get into this mess and years to get out, if ever.

      • DaveH

        This is inevitable, Claire, if we expect Government to do all. If we can’t make the effort to do what is necessary to live a decent life, how can we expect any stranger to make that effort for us? So, the leaders are doomed to failure. We need to get back to the Limited Government that our Founders knew to be the best solution.

        • Claire

          DaveH–I do not expect the government to do it all. I expect governement to be honest and trustworthy, regardless of party. I can and do take care of myself.

          • DaveH

            Claire,
            I wasn’t dissing you. I was just explaining why we don’t have any great leaders. It is impossible for any government to know what is best for all the citizens. They are into too much of our personal lives.

          • Claire

            DaveH– I know you weren’t. I re-read my post and I did sound blunt. You are correct. Too much government intervention in the lives of Americans. I know we all want to keep our freedom and our privacy. Speaking of privacy–get on the Internet and type in your name, I did and I was amazed. My name is on the internet concerning dog shows. And for a fee you can get the scoop on anyone!! Addresses, phone numbers etc.

          • Save America Susie

            Claire and DaveH, It used to be that the Libs were always crying fowl about personal RIGHT to PRIVACY, and now they have surrendered to “Big Brother”. Ironic, isn’t it?

          • Claire

            Susie– In fact, I do not even know why I typed my name in but I did and WOW, there I was. There were several sites that would send you all information about certain individuals for $9.99 or something like that. You get their criminal record if they have one, everything! For some reason, I was surprised. But I guess I should have known better–with the Internet we are all fair game. Our privacy is gone.

    • Pete2sail

      I have been 85 years on this good earth and this great country except for six monrhs spent in France and Germany fighting to preserve your freedom and mine and priveleged to be able to do so. But now we are living under a arrongant leader who does not listen to the people — who bows to our enemies — who bad mouths us to the world and denigrates our troops and our friends in the mid-east the Israelis and is on the road to trying to make is name famous by trying to become the leader of the world and not the leader of a great country. He is a disgrace to his race and shame to his country and will become a failed few words in history. We can and will do better, I have no doubt,– this country has survived worse and it will survive this. And as far as the Constituiton goes. It is a great and historical work — only men can make it bad as they did in the 1800′s when they declared that men and women were property but gee it was not to long ago that even women were legaly Chattels and had few rights. The right things remain and the evil does change — sometime it takes a little longer.

      • Save America Susie

        Pete2sail, Thanks for your comment. I feel your pain! I also agree with what you have said here. Thanks for serving and fighting for this great country!

        “Land of the FREE, BECAUSE of the BRAVE”

      • Angel

        Thank you sir for you service. My dad was in WWII, my brother in Nam, my niece in Iraq. I remember even in the 70′s, women didn’t have the rights they do now. If your husband beat you, police didn’t get involve in domestic disputes!

    • http://aol wayne a

      david,i finally agree with you!

  • Save America Susie

    Chip. I have a copy of The U.S. Constitution in my hands right now, and it states that the 14th amendment WAS RATIFIED on:

    July 9, 1868.

    This is coming from “The Center for Teaching the Constitution”. I don’t know really where you got that info that it was not ratified. That is a pretty shocking statement. Can you tell us why you came to that conclusion?

    • JeffH

      Save America Susie, http://www.civil-liberties.com/cases/14con.html
      THE 14TH AMENDMENT – EQUAL PROTECTION LAW OR TOOL OF USURPATION

      Congressional Record — House June 13, 1967 H7161
      Mr. Rarick…the 14th Amendment–whether ratified or not–was but the expression of emotional outpouring of public sentiment following the War Between Our States. Its obvious purpose and intent was but to free human beings from ownership as a chattel by other humans. Its aim was no more than to free the slaves.

      As our politically appointed Federal judiciary proceeds down their chosen path of chaotic departure from the peoples’ government by substituting their personal law rationalized under the 14th Amendment, their actions and verbiage brand them and their team as secessionists–rebels with pens instead of guns–seeking to destroy our Union.

      Whereas the purported 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution was never lawfully adopted in accordance with the requirements of the United States Constitution because eleven states of the Union were deprived of their equal suffrage in the Senate in violation of Article V, when eleven southern states, including Louisiana, were excluded from deliberation and decision in the adoption of the Joint Resolution proposing said 14th Amendment; said Resolution was not presented to the President of the United States in order that the same should take effect, as required by Article I, Section 7;

      Whereas the Reconstruction Acts of Congress unlawfully overthrew their existing governments, removed their lawfully constituted legislatures by military force and replaced them with rump legislatures which carried out military orders and pretended to ratify the 14th Amendment; and,

      Whereas in spite of the fact that the Secretary of State in his first proclamation, of July 20, 1868, expressed doubt as to whether three fourths of the required states had ratified the 14th Amendment, Congress nevertheless adopted a resolution on July 28, 1868, unlawfully declaring that three fourths of the states had ratified the 14th Amendment and directed the Secretary of State to so proclaim, said Joint Resolution of Congress and the resulting proclamation of the Secretary of State included the purported ratifications of the military enforced rump legislatures of ten southern states whose lawful legislatures had previously rejected the said 14th Amendment, and also included purported ratifications by the legislatures of the States of Ohio, and New Jersey although they had withdrawn their legislative ratifications several months previously, all of which proves absolutely that said 14th Amendment was not adopted in accordance with the mandatory constitutional requirements set forth in Article V of the Constitution and therefore the Constitution strikes with nullity the purported 14th Amendment.

      • Save America Susie

        JeffH, Interesting what I read here….I do understand why Am. 14 was written though…& this site MAY have a valid argument for Amendment 14 not being legal; HOWEVER…. didn’t the South GIVE UP its RIGHTS to the former officials votes when it committed TREASON by SUCCEEDING from the UNION & setting up a ANOTHER government? Couldn’t that be WHY the other new voters were substituted for them? The South had pulled away, and thus disavowed their governmental positions. They were then NULL AND VOID. I wouldn’t trust anyone who did that to then cast a legal vote. They would have needed new officials to cast the votes instead. I understand they were appointed, but perhaps it was a special circumstance due to the chaos of Civil War. Even if the President disapproves of a bill, the Congress can then act. This is all new to me. It is the first time I ever heard of that event in 1967–which was just an argument against it, not a ruling. I am saying the original officials in the SOUTH LOST their right to take up their old posts by reason of TREASON when they SUCCEEDED.

        However, if it still remains an issue–despite Supreme Court rulings to say it IS VALID–Are you saying, JeffH, we should have it voted on now TODAY by the 2/3rds states approval? How do you think that would go? Just wondering….

        • JeffH

          Save America Susie, I certainly believe it should be re-visited and clarified…It was supposedly ratified in 1868 yet the civil war was over in 1865…There were two major issues to be resolved once the Confederacy had been defeated:

          1) Were the rebel States still a part of the United States?

          2) Was the president or the Congress responsible for Reconstruction?

          Former President Lincoln had always claimed that these eleven states had never left the Union. In 1862 he had appointed provisional governors in Louisiana, North Carolina and Tennessee. As early as December 8, 1863, he had already announced a plan of Reconstruction:

          1) Amnesty to all Southerners who would take an oath of loyalty

          2) Recognition of state governments where 10% of the pre-war electorate took the oath and renounced slavery.

          Louisiana and Arkansas took these steps in 1864, but Congress refused to let their representatives sit in the House. President Johnson adopted Lincoln’s plan and recognized the loyal governments in Arkansas, Louisiana, Tennessee and Virginia, which Lincoln had set up. By December of 1865, every Confederate State except Texas had taken the steps. Texas conformed on April 6, 1866 and on December 6, President Johnson announced to Congress that the Union was restored.

          Congress, however, refused to endorse what Johnson had done. A joint committee of six senators and nine representatives was formed instead to oversee the management of the former Confederacy. The committee considered the confederate states to be “conquered provinces” and they were effectively put under the trusteeship of Congress.

          On December 18th, the 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, was ratified by 27 states and formally proclaimed. However, a New Freedmen’s Bureau had to be set up on Feb. 19, 1866 in order to protect freed slaves from the harsh “Black Codes” being enacted in some states. These Black Codes effectively tied the freed slaves to the land, on which they lived and worked.

          The Joint Committee then formulated the 14th Amendment to the Constitution in order to get around the apparent unconstitutionality of the Civil Rights Bill. It passed Congress on the 13th of June and was submitted to the states for ratification. The Amendment defined American citizenship and included Afro-Americans. It provided Federal protection to freedmen whose rights could not now be limited by state governments. Ratification was denied by most of the southern states but was made a requirement for readmission into the Union.

          Meanwhile, Radicals in the Congress were consistently overriding Johnson’s vetoes and placed some important limitations on his Executive power. Johnson was prevented from naming judges to the Supreme Court and deprived of being the “Commander in Chief” of the armed forces. The Covode Resolution of February 24, 1868 passed in the House by a vote of 126-47 and called for the impeachment of the President. The charges included alleged violations of the Tenure of Office Act, the Command of the Army Act and with bringing disgrace upon Congress. The impeachment vote, however did not arrive at the required two thirds majority.

          The Supreme Court played a huge role in determining the legality and constitutionality of many of the laws that were passed during Reconstruction. The court decided that it was unconstitutional to set up martial law where civil courts were in operation. In Texas vs. White, 1869, the court upheld Lincoln’s position that the Union was indivisible and indissoluble. The court also decided that the loyalty oaths were wrong and invalidated them.
          http://www.essortment.com/all/civilwarrecons_rmpc.htm

          • Save America Susie

            JeffH, I will certainly check the link out. HOWEVER, the fact remains that the South DID voluntarily LEAVE the union, & had cut ties with her, and even set up its own government and elected a PRESIDENT. That says a lot.

    • DaveH

      Susie,
      Here is another point of view:
      http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=282

      • Save America Susie

        Thanks DaveH,, I will check it out, just like the other one Jeff sent me. I’ve just never heard of this before.

    • http://aol wayne a

      american liberal,there was an article recently on this very site that showed what states never ratified the 14th,and because not enough of the states offically ratified it,it wasn’t legal.

  • http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/29/60minutes/main2625305.shtml cemott3rd

    I’m not sure how I feel about the AZ law as I too have not read it, but I have to wonder why this wasn’t a hot topic back almost 25 years ago in ’86 when they passed the last major immirgration law. Under Reagan if they had just inforced the penalty for hiring illegals, that alone would have probably ‘nipped it in the bud’, but now -25 years and millions of illegal and undocumented immigrants later- it is really too late!

    • David

      It wasn’t such a hot topic because the Federal Government just didn’t see the need to enforce it. GEEEEEE sound familiar. The Good State of Arizona finally got sick and tired of getting run over by illegal immigrants and decided to make thier own law which is basically the same as the Federal law except that they made it a state law so they could enforce it themselves and obama didn’t like that because he has other plans. More Change.

      • http://aol wayne a

        david,nothing was done 20 some yrs ago because it wasn’t that big of a problem outside of the border states so it didn’t get the polt. attention.i live 600 miles from the border,10 yrs ago i never heard or seen a hispanic,especially speaking spanish. now i can’t go nowhere not even for 5 min. without seeing and hearing them speak spanish!i have a fleamarket booth and on sundays its 65-70% mex,some people have nicknamed it little mexico.thats 600 miles from the border!

  • Special K (NJ)

    Some things defy understanding
    Some folks can’t see forests for trees:
    It’s not good national policy
    To permit illegals to enter with ease.

    No matter how it’s sliced
    Such thinking is … well, so much baloney.
    We should work harder to stop illegal entry
    And make hiring illegal entrants a fel.on.y.

    As to the disposition of the millions already here
    Residing without formal permission
    Let’s invite them to come forward for identification and registration
    Under the aegis of an apolitical immigration commission

    To be issued “temporary residence” permits
    For a variable period, e.g., 2, 3 or 4 years,
    After which they’ll be expected to return to their homeland
    Free of sundry illegal-residency-imposed fears.

    Those who don’t comply with the invitation
    When ultimately apprehended for lack of proper ID
    Will be subject to immediate incarceration and deportation,
    Along lines of legislation passed in the State of AZ.

    These provisions will be accompanied by another
    That imposes very severe sanctions on employing entities
    That include illegal immigrants, their heirs and/or assigns
    On their respective rosters of employees.

    And to meet requirements for labor
    That can’t be met by the local talent pool
    Cohorts of erstwhile illegals and other foreigners
    Could be hired–for rotation according to rule.

    If instituted, rules such as those outlined, above,
    Assuming they’re properly enforced nationally,
    Would go a long way toward removing the burden
    That has been placed on the shoulders of folks in AZ.

    But under the “leadership” of Barack H. Obama–
    At least until a new Congress arrives in DC–
    Anything resembling such common-sense rules
    On his “not to do list” will continue to be.

    Comments on BHO’s attitudes and ambitions
    Could be made more or less continuously–
    But to no effect except for venting of spleen
    That any interested observer might see.

    • Save America Susie

      SK, Clever poem!

    • bp

      Special K;
      Clever. However, we MUST send all illegal aliens BACK to stem the tide of the new ones, or they will never stop coming! We must build a fence (with razor wire and electricity) just like prison perimeters.

  • airangel

    Way to go Jim Clark with your Patriotic t-shirts!

    Boo Phoenix Suns for denouncing your Patriotism as an American Team!

    Israel please teach our Homeland Security how to enforce and secure America’s borders!

    Obama step-up as Chief in Commander! Quit partying with your rich friends like Beatles Pauly – there are quite a few crisis going on and it’s your job to act like a leader..if you wanted to hub nub with celebrities and run in those circles, you should have never applied for your job! These wonderful celebs are going to lauch a new Mexican movie right before elections to win votes…DON’T SUPPORT THIS MOVIE! Don’t see it, don’t buy tickets and most of all Don’t believe it! We already know they support the illegals because they live in their mansions and don’t deal with the everyday crime that the border citizens deal with!

    Go Jan Brewer, she med with Obama finally however did not get much in the way of answers like when the fence was going to start getting built but at least for now, she wasn’t threatened with a lawsuit from Obama…

    • http://personalliberty PFFFF

      A police state is not freedom rather a prison itself.

      • airangel

        Well would you rather be broke? The more illegals coming through, the more tax burden to all working Americans to cover all the Government freebies for them…it has to stop NOW, not later

      • Dave

        Not to mention Israels border is a hell of a lot smaller then ours and their wall doesn’t even cover the whole thing? Who would pay for that? Who would pay to maintain it? You all keep saying it’s costing us money because they don’t pay taxes but if they become citizens we can make sure they are paying taxes.

        • airangel

          The wall was already approved and the cost would have been far cheaper than the years of illegals coming in…taxing the education, peace, medical establishments, 3rd world diseases, etc…the wall/border would insure proper entry, medical checks and documentation such as passport or work permits. It would also eliminate the human traffic smuggling…the cost currently year after year for their Title 1 education, medical expenses, trash clean up, law enforcement for the gangs and prisoners, not too mention the cost of the 26% in prisons, lunch programs, housing assitance…all the extra staffing for schoold, public safety, etc…is costing a heck of a lot more than the 50 billion dollar wall to bring the wave of illegals to a trickle…not to mention the threat to National Security…safety is “priceless”!

        • http://aol wayne a

          dave,can’t you take a hint,nobody agrees with you!first all they have to do to protect our borders is to mine it,cheap easy fix! recently newsweek had a article that stated 58% of the illegals are on some kind of welfare,have a anchor baby that gets even larger!so how is it going to pay to make all these illegal leaches legal when 58% plus are on welfare not paying a damn thing anyway.get your head out of your @#$ !

    • Claire

      Obama is not going to threaten her with a lawsuit. He has to think about his image. It would not be feasible for him to do such a stupid thing, but then again, who knows?

      • http://aol wayne a

        obama hasn’t cared about what the polls show or what the majority wants so why would his image be any different?

        • Claire

          wayne a– I think Obama knows what his poll numbers are, and what a lot of Americans think and say about him. I really do not think he wants to add more fuel to the fire. I do not think he will bring about a lawsuit, if he does, it would not be feasible.

  • Mick for thought

    A good but heavily one sided article about an important issue that I hope will get addressed more seriously by by both the legislative and executive branches of our government.

    Kind of concerned about the emphasis of the last portion of this article. Leaders and merchants never let a good crisis go to waste. Amazing how may T-shirt vendors have made money over the years. Entrepreneur or opportunist?

    • Claire

      Mick for thought–Opportunist-make money while you can and with anything imaginable.

      • Mick for thought

        Yes anything. I am waiting for oil on dead birds from the left wing T-shirt vendors next.

    • Barb

      Mick, Don’t hold your breath waiting for the government to address this thing seriously or intelligently, EVER! You can die holding your breath that long! Especially with the liberals in charge!

      • Mick for thought

        What scares me is if you get a position as a representative. I have seen you agree with smart people but never saw a smart comment from you.

  • Johnny Hiott

    It’s amazing the question of the 14th amendments legality. The amendment was adopted in 1868. How could it possibly be legaly adopted when an illegal state participated in the ratification process of such amendment. West Virginia became a state during the war of northern agression. Then president lincoln allowed it to seperate itself from the state of Virginia. Article IV section III of our constitution clearly states that “no new State shall be formed or erected within the jusisdiction of any other State , nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states , or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress”. When Virginia seceded , delegates of western counties meeting at Wheeling , repudiated the act and created a new state, “Kanawha” later renamed West Virginia and it was admitted to the union in 1863. The legislature of the State of Virginia never approved such a seperation and creation of West Virginia. Therefore any vote on ratification to ANY amendment that West Virginia approved is null and void.
    We have had an illegal state in our nation since that time. Now some 142 years later we now obviously have an illegal president to go along with it. (I say that simply because if indeed obama were eligible to serve as our president , He would have produced proof positive and laid the issue to rest long ago). If the 14th amendment is to be questioned then all amendments to our Constitution from the 13th on must also be questioned if the ratification process included West Virginia.
    We can thank Abraham Lincoln for the destruction of our Constitution as he led the way.

    • Mick for thought

      I wonder how many bills have been passed over the years with votes from WV tipping the scales in favor or not passed because they tipped in apposed. Should we go back and adjust them all?

    • Dave

      I’m pretty sure our constitution at least implies that if you secede from the union then you are no longer covered by it’s provisions. Technically any southerner who came into the North was an illegal alien. They had no rights accept those that govern war. Do you all really want to repeal the 14th ammendment and take away the rights of African Americans? What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Newsflash, you lost the civil war and still haven’t come to terms with it. Southern states did the ultimate turn on the constitution and removed themselves from this great country. Then they have the balls to wave the confederate flag. How unpatriotic is that?

      • George Halepis

        Government doesn’t grant rights. We are born with them. All rights derive from the right to life. The Founders fought for independence because their rights were trampled. The South fought for independence because because their rights were trampled by Lincoln and the northern industrialists in the War of Northern Aggression. The South is now in the same position that the Founders were in before the War of Independence. The only difference is that the Founders won and the South lost. If the Founders had lost, we would now be a British colony, just as the South is now a colony of the North. If the South had won, at least half of our once great nation would still be great.

      • DaveH

        They weren’t allowed to secede from the Union. They would have been happy not to be bound by it. But the North forced their way on the South. There is nowhere in the Constitution that disallows States from seceding. It is typical for leaders to not give up their power willingly.
        For those of you who honestly believe that the Civil War was fought to abolish Slavery, you might explain to me why 3 of the Northern States were Slave States.

        • Save America Susie

          The reason was probably more that the South wanted to succeed from the Union in order to continue their way of life they wanted to preserved, (which also happened to include the slavery issue). They wanted to form their own government & not be dictated to by the existing government of the USA.

      • http://aol wayne a

        dave what kind of ignorant interpretation was that you stated about a person from the south that came into a northern state was an illegal alien? bulls@#$! the term ,illegal alien was never used in those terms during the civil war.any southerner could travel freely as long as he wasn’t working for the south.how dare you try to compare this with the illegal parasites coming across our border!

      • George E

        Dave,

        The discussion here has nothing to do with African-Americans. We only want to discontinue the practice of awarding US citizenship to babies born on US soil by illegal immigrants. That’s all.

  • Ronald D Johnston

    Why are we so surprised when the fascist liberals push for amnesty when we have had the likes of Lyndon Johnson with his disastrous great society, the Cllntons who have pushed the same agenda and obama who has never had an original idea all trying to tell us how dumb we are and we should listen to them because they are smarter than most Americans. They are so smart that we are probably beyond help because of the insane spending. We are bankrupt and the world is propping us up because if we fail, the whole world will fail.

    • Claire

      Ronald D Johnston– I agree with your last sentence. However, I believe all administrations have contributed to the bankruptcy of America.

  • James

    If we do not bring those who enter our country illegally to justice, we are no longer a nation of laws, we’re a nation of men. And it’s true that the 14th Amendment was not ratified legally, but the position of the Supreme Court is that any unconstitutional federal law that has been on the books for an extended period, without being challenged, is now the law of the land. The Constitution, Article V, requires amendments to be ratified by “the Legislatures of three fourths of the several states.” At the time the 14th Amendment was ratified, the southern states were occupied by ‘carpet bagger’ from the North, who voted for the amendment in their stead. Since that law has been on the books for 142 years, it’s doubtful that it would be overturned now, if so challenged.

  • s c

    Why is surprising that the 14th Amendment wasn’t ratified properly? Have you forgotten about the Income Tax Disaster? What matters most to these puppets is to get things passed. Neither the legislation nor elected retards are supposed to make “sense.” It’s the FEELINGS and EMOTIONS that count.
    People, are you not yet ready to see these NWO progressives as a herd of incompetents who are mentally and physically ADDICTED? It eats at your brain, it corrupts the soul and it is as tough to break free from as COCAINE.
    More than that, progressivism is no more ‘just’ or compassionate than a useless wannabe progressive who drives through a neighborhood looking for someone to shoot.
    They have NO place in civilization. They are filled with hatred for anyone who doesn’t ‘feel’ the way they do. And they DARE to bith, piss and moan about the rest of us and call us ‘mean-spirited.’ If anyone was ever brainwashed and dedicated to being mean-spirted 24/7, it’s a NWO progressive. People, it’s them or it’s us.

  • Linda

    Can you believe we’re even talking about this?!? It shouldn’t even be an issue… it’s called ILLEGAL immigration for a reason! Why is it that while I’m looking for a job (that I am unable to find for awhile now) the ad is allowed to say BILINGUAL ONLY or BILINGUAL PREFERRED?? How fair would it be to have an ad say WHITE or AFRICAN AMERICAN ONLY? I don’t get this? Isn’t this discrimination against ME? What about my race? I can’t get a job because I don’t speak Spanish?!? Not to mention all the other freebies they get?!? They are such a drain on the USA!! I have never seen this country in such turmoil and frankly it’s so sad!

    • Dave

      YOu can be white and American and speak Spanish. Don’t you think the job description for the ambassador to Spain says bilingual only?

      • http://aol wayne a

        dave,thats an exception,the ambassador’s job.kinda of stretching things alittle bit there aren’t you!

  • http://www.taxpayeremancipation.com Burton Linne

    The 14th was or was not ratified in 1868. It is past being a legal matter, it is now a political matter. I personally researched the 16th Amendment at the Natl Archives-WDC in 1985. US Dist J Greene (D.C. Washington,DC) wrote a 13 page opinion in my motion for a declaratory judgement that said exactly what I just said about the 14th. The citizenship clause was to plant the newly freed slaves without any papers, into American society so they would be able to enjoy the right to “life,liberty, and property” The 14th is absolutely pivotal to your right to a full paycheck WITHOUT deductions, without paying any kind of income taxes on your revenue stream derived from a Common Occupation as enforced by 40 S.Ct. opinions starting in 1884: 111 US 754 Butchers, et al. We have been extorted in the Greatest Heist in History starting in 1942. Get your birthright back. Cancel your W-4. It is all on http://www.taxpayeremancipation.com, Burton Linne. PS A lot more than just Mexican peons have been streaming through–arm yourself and practice dry firing until you feel you do not have to ponder the issue before shooting. Message me at taxpayeremancipation.com@gmail.com for my white paper on the real reason, never stated by the experts, on why every Muslim, male and female is a clear and present mortal danger to any non-believer in particular Christians and Jews. You will need smelling salts to recover from your faint. Oh yes, one more advice: “if you point it, shoot it, and empty it.” Advice given to me by two Chicago detectives, one black, the other white upon greeting me into their district in an automotive air conditioning shop in 1956 or 7. And one last observation: only lunatic collectivist morons with no self-esteem who crave being told what to do by their government Mommies could object to Arizonians attempting to protect themselves with a weak, tepid at best effort to choke off the flow of people who should not be here. No argument can prevail against these lock-brain drones; just laugh at them as the clowns they are.

  • David

    I hadn’t read a good deal of the comments on this page until after I posted a few minutes ago but one in particular caught my eye just now. This is to ( hflashman )just two post above mine. Again that is a law on the books and once again our so called leaders don’t enforce it and are already trying to repeal it. So far as the poor slobs you refer to, there are work visas. For those that know of anyone hiring illegal immigrants they should report them. There is a heavy fine for knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant. Trouble is, you can’t do any real checking into their background until after they have been hired. They give forged credentials and social security numbers. Where have I heard that one before. Seems our leader has a social security number that just doesn’t jive with where he got it and when he got it. But he has paid somewhere in the area of 1.6 Million dollars to keep his records locked up and away from the American Peoples eyes and he has been very sucessful at doing it. What other president has ever done that and gotten away with it? But I do agree with you that that issue needs to be dealt with more astringently.

    • Dave

      No other president has been asked for his birth certificate. He has a social security card and has shown it. Don’t let hate cloud your mind.

      • Barb

        All past presidents have had their identity verified long before they ran for president and their citizenship. Obama hadn’t and still hasn’t and his SS card is suspect to say the least! Don’t let the koolaid cloud your judgement!

        • Dave

          Which one of us is really drinking the koolaid?

          • Dave L

            Barb is 100% correct and YOU have drunk too much coolaid. McCain presented his birth certificate when asked to prove where he was born. Why won’t Obama?

          • http://aol wayne a

            dave,it must be you!have you noticed that very few people agree with you? i wonder why? lol lol

        • Randy Goeman

          I am on disability since 2005 & I STILL carry my Birth Registeration card , that I have to show to apply for a job since the 1970′s.

        • Mick for thought

          Barb you have won a Darwin award.

      • libertytrain

        Which of his several social security cards is the correct one?

        • JeffH

          …Connecticut?

          • libertytrain

            JeffH – ah if only it would have been possible for him to have obtained that Connecticut Social Security card – the mystery is never ending as you are so good at pointing out. Love your posts.

        • Mick for thought

          Tracked that one. Was a bunch of crap.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Dave,
        Can you explain why his social security number was issued in the state of Connecticut AFTER he had held a job in his home state of Hawaii?
        Best wishes,
        Bob

        • Mick for thought

          His mother applied for his ssn though the American embassy when he was a child in Indonesia. All such ssn have a Connecticut number.

          • JeffH

            Can you provide a link for verification?

          • libertytrain

            So how did he first have a job in Hawaii and then get a Connecticut SS# – and why does he apparently have so many ss#’s – I only have one. Do you lose them with each time you give up your citzenship perhaps as you travel to countries we were not allowed to travel to?

          • JeffH

            Mick, I have to question the validity of your statement.

            Types of Social Security Cards: http://www.ssa.gov/ssnumber/cards.htm
            We issue three types of Social Security cards. All cards show your name and Social Security number.

            1. The first type of card shows your name and Social Security number and lets you work without restriction. We issue it to:
            •U.S. citizens; and

            •People lawfully admitted to the United States on a permanent basis.

            2. The second type of card shows your name and number and notes, “VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION.” We issue this type of card to people lawfully admitted to the United States on a temporary basis who have DHS authorization to work.

            3. The third type of card shows your name and number and notes, “NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT.” We issue it to people from other countries:

            •Who are lawfully admitted to the United States without work authorization from DHS, but with a valid nonwork reason for needing a Social Security number; or

            •Who need a number because of a federal law requiring a Social Security number to get a benefit or service.

    • Libby

      I think the real question is WHY did he pay 1.6 million to seal his records, what is he trying to hide? Why hasn’t this been more of an issue? He should have been required to let the American people know who and what he was before they voted him in to the highest office in the Nation.

      • Save America Susie

        Libby, He did seem to come out of no where. I remember he was the first relatively “UNKNOWN” to ever be the KEYNOTE SPEAKER for the Democrat convention. All the times before, I recognized the person as famous. He was not known in most of the USA. People were scratching their heads. “Who’s he?” It seemed his career was planned long, long ago. His steps to the White House carefully ordered for years.

        • Save America Susie

          P.S. By the way, I am referring to the 2004 Key Note Speaker to the Dems Convention. Check it out on the Internet. See BO speak 6 years ago.

  • Norman

    Re: schools. We are allowing this type of behavior. It start with bagy pants,sloppy dress, No discipline.You have to take a HARD stand. Don’t back down.

    • DaveH

      Norman,
      It starts with compulsory education. We can’t educate people who don’t want to be educated. They not only aren’t willing to learn themselves, but they disrupt classes, thus keeping others from learning. It is just a waste of taxpayer’s money. Let them support themselves being janitors or other occupations that don’t require much education.

  • mehoward

    Tell me how Obama can stop a bill that was voted on by the congress and signed by the president without going back to the congress to stop it? The law to build a fence (about 850 miles) along the southern border is law. Obama build this fence!!!!meh pensacola,fl.

    • Save America Susie

      Meh, Yes, Government red tape is so frustrating isn’t it? But because of this issue, it is MORE than frustrating!

  • John

    The 14th Amendment. Here is what passed for “legality” during the “Carpetbagging” martial law era in the South known as “Reconstruction.” This “amendment was put forward to the several states for ratification literally at the point of a gun. The legislatures in the well-crushed South, even after murderous Abe along with the help of brutally efficient psychopaths such as General Sherman had raped, pillaged and burned the place tot eh ground, refused to pass the Amendment. Oh, what to do?

    As the South was under military occupation at the time, well, the victors were not about to let these “States” vote their conscience. Literally at gunpoint, the North forcibly disbanded the legislatures in the Southern states that refused to ratify the Amendment in question and installed unelected representatives in their place. Many of these were “New Southerners”, the rightly despised profiteering “Carpetbaggers” from the North who flooded the region after Lee’s surrender, as well as recently “freed” Negroes. Note the operative word here – “Unelected.”

    Isn’t “democracy” great? And you sit surprised wondering why your “Court Historian” penned textbooks left these little details out as you wended your way through our pathetic public school system? “Oooh the red, white and blue.”

    This horrid piece of legislation stripped away from the American people, formerly “sovereign people”, the protection of “Common Law” and we became “artificial citizens”, subjects of a newly-created corporate body. This new “legal” standard set the legal foundations for “brilliant” and “august” interpretations by the Supreme Court of the even then pretty-well dead Constitution such as the 1886 decision known as “Southern Pacific v. Santa Clara County” which gave “person status” to corporations. Corporations as persons? Surely you jest… Well folks, it’s the “law.” As intellectually baseless as this decision was, it was nevertheless recently reaffirmed by the nations highest court.

    The murderous Chinese Communist Chairman Mao stated that “All power flows from the barrel of a gun”, and it was from the psychology that underpins such dictum’s that gave us the 14th Amendment. Raw, unbridled power flowing from the end of a gun. If that is how so many of you “Great Americans” believe our nation’s laws should be passed, well, you are philosophically surrounded by some interesting company. And while you chew that one over, don’t ever forget that “British Petroleum” is a “citizen” no different that you, except your fellow “corporate personhood” cannot ever go to prison, nor shall it ever die a natural death.

  • Brian

    This country needs to have the courage to look back to the mistakes of 1965 and concentrate on rolling back much of this liberal mistake.
    We need to discard the anchor baby gimmick.
    Enforce the laws we have already.
    Work to restore sanity to the immigration laws.

    • David

      AMEN Brian, and get rid of those that don’t. Vote them out of office. Be careful who you vote for though. I am looking for new blood that will do the job and not some incumbent that has a record of flip flopping on the issues for his own benefit or one that doesn’t vote on the issues just so he can say well I didn’t vote for that. Trouble is that by not VOTING it’s the same as voting for the other side. Watch these Politicians. There is more than one way to lie. But truth is where it’s at. A liar isn’t worth the few grains of sand beneath himself and you sure as hell can’t count on one.

  • Bob

    America was first set up over 200 years ago with Constitutional Documentation!All who can not accept that STOP trying to change it and START packing up and GET OUT or LEAVE- It’s as simple as that!!!BYE BYE,SO LONG,FAREWELL,GO!!!

    • Cathy

      EXACTLY! When BO said, “In five days,we’re going to fundamentally change America,” why didn’t the zombies pay attention?

      • Save America Susie

        Cathy, They were too hypnotize by his “aura”. Even hypnotize Hill and bill into “Stepford” politicians.

  • Marilyn

    Amendment 14 – Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

    1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

    3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

    5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

    • Save America Susie

      Thanks, Marilyn, for typing all that out! People need to read it, and I am sure most don’t have a copy.

      • Save America Susie

        …And thank God for the 19th amendment, which changes the word “male” in the 14th to reflect “all citizens” regardless of whether they are male or female! Ratified Aug. 18, 1920.

        • JeffH

          Save America Susie…again I suggest you read this Congressional Record — House June 13, 1967 H7161
          THE 14TH AMENDMENT – EQUAL PROTECTION LAW OR TOOL OF USURPATION
          http://www.civil-liberties.com/cases/14con.html

          • Save America Susie

            JeffH, There is a time lapse between posts, as you know, and your other post was not there, when I posted this one. So now I have read both, and commented, leaving ANOTHER reply message for you farther up before this one. I still have questions which I have stipulated there, if you care to take the time. That is, If you get back that way again. Seems to me the issue has points on both side or it would have been resolved by now….I hope you can read my other comment.

          • Angel

            If there was equal protection under the law in the 70′s, my husband would have gone to jail for beating me but instead, police did not get involved in domestic disputes. Think again!

          • Save America Susie

            Angel, We certainly do have a long way to go. That’s a given. Otherwise, America wouldn’t be afraid to elect a WOMAN PRESIDENT, WHEN SO MANY OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE.

            I think it does get better year by year, but hard to see progress, I know. Even England, who we rebelled against has had a WOMAN PRIME MINISTER! Margaret Thatcher.

          • JeffH

            Save America Susie, thanks, I have and I responded with another link(attached to my original) regarding the Reconstruction period which elaborates a little more on the 13 & 14th…boiled down to “politics as usual” and not upholding the the Constitution or the law.

  • Vicki

    http://www.civil-liberties.com/cases/14con.html – This is one web site with information about the 14th Amendment and explains why it was not ratified.

    • Save America Susie

      Maybe if there are questions, they need to make a ruling about it now, just to settle it. But that might stir up a whole new issue & change everything. It may be that the Supreme court has ALREADY made that ruling. But if some people want to vote on it again state by state, just to clarify it, that might take a long while.

      • http://aol wayne a

        susie i don’t think americans are afraid of electing a woman,just not hilary!

        • Save America Susie

          Wayne A, Do you see any possibilities for a women President on the horizon today? I admire Palin for her spunk and service, but I doubt very much she will run actually, contrary to what people might think.
          I think she is content to serve in an advisory & cheerleader capacity now. She is a good speaker & writer since she was a Journalism major in college. But I wonder if she would really try to run in view of the pain that her family has been through these last two years. Her book should have been titled: “The Agony and the Ecstasy”.

          There are certainly other good fish in the sea, other Female Governors & Senators….But they sure do keep a low profile.

  • Cathy

    You know there is something wrong when we all have to push “1″ for English and everywhere you go, there are signs in English AND Spanish.

    Why did this start and why do we have to continue this bullshit?

    If I move to Mexico or Ecuador, I don’t believe there will be any signs in English.

    I’ve had enough of this PC. United States, grow some balls!

    • Save America Susie

      Cathy, I do believe we should adopt English as our official language–though I thought we already had–some say it is not on the books. Don’t know if that is true as far as the Federal Government. Does anyone know for sure?

      But I know one thing for sure, California’s State Constitution, for one state, was drawn up in two languages, English and Spanish, in the 1800′s when it became a state. So, as far as California goes, they were ALWAYS bilingual, much to my surprise! (Until recently I never knew that).

      • Cathy

        I don’t believe that English was ever OFFICIALLY made the US language. Our do nothing Congress never bothered to make that a law over the years, no matter who was in charge.

        Actually…I speak Spanish. I DID NOT learn it so I could converse with all of the Hispanics in the US…I just wanted to learn another language and chose Spanish since it’s one of the top five in the world.

        But it will come in handy if and/or when I move south of the border.

  • NICK WOLFE

    ALL THIS ILLEGAL STUFF IS A VERY EASY FIX….

    YOU JUST HAVE TO ADJUST YOUR SCOPE TO SHOOT FIVE INCHES LOWER AT 100 YARDS TO COMPENSATE FOR THE MEXICANS BEING SHORTER THAN US LEGAL CITIZENS.

    PEOPLE! WE ARE BEING INVADED BY A FOREIGN COUNTRY….WAKE UP BEFORE THERE ARE MORE OF THEM HERE THAN THERE ARE OF US TO TRY AND DEFEND OUR HOMES.

    THE WOLFESTER

  • Tom

    What about Mexico and the United States and Canada all becoming one country? It makes sense. The North American Continent would be much better if we all stood together. When is the last time you heard of anything going on in Canada? It’s citizens sure don’t do much complaining. If Mexico and the United States and Canada were one country, would the US bring the other former countries down? The fact of the matter is that we need Mexico for the willing and less expensive labor they give us. Talk to anyone who lives in the states that need Mexican labor as their own whites won’t do the work that the Mexicans do, plus they want much more money, making it too expensive to hire Americans. Americans should only blame themselves for allowing such an idiotic government, which is caused by a non-caring reckless attitude and inattention of all citizens, in general. This is the year for Americans to show their feelings by voting out the encumbents, replacing them with non-lawyers who really want to right the many wrongs of a fading free Nation of basically good people who never had to fight for their freedom, but expected it to run on indefinitely without concern. A people who lack the courage and ambition to be governed in the way the American Government has governed should expect nothing better than what they have now. And that will continue to get worse, not better, with continued inattention. Time for America and Americans to wake up and fight for what they believe in — all of which is contained in the United States of America’s Constitution……Amen to us all. And may God Bless American if He hasn’t already given up on us too.

    • http://personalliberty PFFFF

      Legal labor yes, illegal labor no!

    • Save America Susie

      The problem is, Tom, Mexico does not share our American philosophy of FREEDOM. They have completely different laws that are diametrically opposed to ours. They don’t stand of FREEDOM at all. You are also considered guilty til proven innocent there. In America it is supposed to be innocent til proven guilty. The burden of proof in any court is on proving the accused did something.

      There are very dangerous drug wars going on, on the Mexico border right now as we type this! No one I know wants to go to Mexico anymore! It has become “the new taboo”. Winning a free trip there on a game show would be horrifying now. The northern Mexicans in Mexico are virtual hostages for the drug culture, and there is a lot of kidnapping of Americans held for money. And murder is rampant. Gang run wild in the street and kill the police, and some are are connected with the police. This has all been documented in the news on all stations, as well as the White House.

      That is why I was shocked when BO brought the Prez. of Mexico up to chit-chat & to lecture us all how terrible we were for enforcing our own laws! What’s up with that??? Shows Bo is trying to fundamentally change America alright!–into something it is NOT. “W” wasn’t much better–he also hob-nobbed with the Mexico’s president. My husband & I were so UPSET about that–even though we voted for “W” (being we are Conservatives, there didn’t seem to be another choice at the time–we saw it as “lesser of the evils” situation.)– That he also left the borders unprotected, and even encouraged new trade-travel across the border with Mexican trucks. When you live in So. California, you understand the impact of all that. It would be easier to smuggle people in! It would also make it possible for other illegals to come across more easily from other countries THROUGH Mexico. “W” made a lot of mistakes regarding the open borders! Now we are paying big time. Talk of the border fence has been on-going it seems forever. It needs to happen now!

      P.S. We need to bring manufacturing back to the USA so people will have jobs! And I am sure that if the illegals left (if it were possible) that the citizens of this country would GLADLY fill the gap just to support their families…These are desperate times!

    • http://aol wayne a

      tom,1st why would we want that cess pool called mexico as part of the US.they’re poor,violent and bribery is running rampage throughout their whole system.as far as cheap labor,by the time they pay no taxes,free education,free school lunches,free hospitalization,free use of the er’s,welfare,foodstamps,gov. subsidized housing,wick. how cheap is this so called cheap labor really costing us? a hell of a lot!

  • http://personalliberty PFFFF

    We have never given a party other than the democratic or republican party a chance to win the election. Wouldn’t that throw the politicians for a loop to have a minority party independent or othwerwise rule in the house? Would that wake them up?

    • Save America Susie

      There used to be “The Whig party” early on and up to the mid 1800′s. Not even sure what that stood for anymore. Anyone know?

      • Alan

        Hello, lots of info here :
        http://www.answers.com/topic/whig-party

        • Save America Susie

          Alan, Thank you for researching that for us. I will check it out soon.

      • Palin12

        US Presidents William Henry Harrison, Zachary Taylor, John Tyler, and Millard Fillmore were Whigs.

  • bedbug

    Teddy Roosevelt was right. If they come here to be AMERICANS O.K., BUT THEY DO NOT. They refuse to be assimilated into OUR WAY OF LIFE and want to reduce US TO THEIRS. They want to continue to be MEXICANS and leach off of the WEALTH THAT WE HAVE CREATED. Poor ignorant people are only pawns in the globalists rush to destroy nationalism. In doing so they are destroying the greatest nation the world has ever seen. Boy, DO WE NEED GOD’S KINGDOM….

    • Save America Susie

      Bedbug, That sure would be nice! But God’s Kingdom is Spiritual and “Not of this world” as Jesus said. So, Unless the 2nd Coming happens real soon, we have to deal with reality of what we have here and now, unfortunately.

  • snowman

    I live in north eastern Wisconsin. Our illegal immigrant problem is no where close to the states that border Mexico. Recently an article in the local newspaper “the green bay press gazette” contained an explanation by our sheriff. They simply ignore the citizenship status of those they encounter. Since legal procedures dictate that if a illegal is identified they must be turned over to the federal immigration ( I.N.S. ) and if the illegal was not involved in a serious crime nothing is done! Apparently those in power of the I.N.S. Do not consider being in this country illegally a crime. Paying the salaries of those employed by the I.N.S. Is like paying someone to not paint my house.
    I was appalled by the standing ovation awarded to the president of Mexico. I would never cast a vote for anyone who stood in support of a foreign speaker who was condemning the actions of an elected American official regardless of my opinions of the officials position. As so frequently pointed out our ability to discuss and debate differences contributes to our greatness. Those of other nations have no business to insult our citizens when a guest of this country

    • Save America Susie

      AMEN! IT WAS SO SHOCKING!

    • Cathy

      Every single member of Congress who stood up and applauded this ass should be arrested and tried for TREASON. He was putting US down and they cheered him. I’ve never been so disgusted AND angry!

    • DaveH

      Snowman,
      “Paying the salaries of those employed by the I.N.S. Is like paying someone to not paint my house”. That is true for much if not most of Government. They not only do not typically produce anything, but they also actively interfere with the production of others. That is why we are in trouble economically. The illegals have become the scapegoats, but it is Big Government that is draining our economy.

    • http://GMIAL.COM Vanessa

      I wish all states would pass an immigration bill. I am getting tired of my tax dollars going to keep illegal aliens in prison while if an American citzen would commit the same crime in many states would have the death penality. Case in point a woman who was a reident in the state of Kentucky was killed in a hit and run accident involving an illegal alien from Mexico who had a blood alcohol three times the legal limit. Also in Lexington a couple took in an illegal alien and was giving him a place to live, helping him to get a green card and also helping him to get a job so he could be a contributing member of society. So how does this animal repay these folks. BY TYING THEIR 13 YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER TO A CHAIR AND REPEATLY RAPED AND BEAT HER FOR HOURS ON END. THIS ANIMAL SHOULD HAVE BEEN SENTENCE TO DEATH BECAUSE HE WAS FROM MEXICO HE WAS PUT IN PRISON. HOW DARE THE PRESIDENT OF MEXICO COMDEMN THE UNITED STATE TO TRY TO KEEP THEIR CITIZENS SAFE.

      • Save America Susie

        Vanessa, How horrible! Just tragic. That is exactly why immigrants should be screened, and NO automatic amnesty should be allowed!

  • marvin

    here is my take on illegal immigration and the 14th adm,when you have la raza [the race] founder saying we got to kill the white man a fed rep from illinois getting arrested for adding and abetting and incouraging illegals, a at. general wanting to start a law suit over a states rights to protect it,s citizen a dhls sec saying it not illegal to be undocumented a pres saying arizona is misguided for doing something he won,t do a liberal dem majority standind and applauding for el pres coldron for telling arizona how to govern, i dont care how you twist it, illegal is just that not legal and for you that think it ok go to mexico with no id see how long it takes you to be arrested, on the 14th adm it was put in for the children of black slaves not for illegals that is a far stretch to go from being forced to come here and coming here illegally and having 5 or 6 kids at tax payer expence no other country has birth right citizenship but to you who think it is ok to be here illegally let me know how it is working for you in 5 years when that 20 million illegals demanding amnesty is 50 million,we can make a difference vote the liberal illegal all for the children loving bums out vote like your life and livly hood depense on it for it does

  • ONTIME

    The way to look at the Feds and their sitting on their hands on so many issues such as immigration is that the obligation to act is your sworn responsibility, negligence will not suffice and that you as representatives of the tax paying public can and will be replaced for dereliction of duty….oh you bet you can do this.

    Stop voting for incumbents who do not perform and make elected and appointed officials respond to the public by open questions regarding issues, civility and being consistant as to how to make them become more responsive. We are experiencing a definate lack of trust when it comes to government, those we have in leadership positions are secretive and not in favor of working for the public but rather more wanting to tell them what’s best for them and that is subjective and the electeds simply are not capable of sustaining decent argument.

    Were we to compel them to yearly public audits of ther earnings and holdings and make it compulsory, your elected and appointed officials could not help but to work openly and become valuble members of government instead of the overpaid slugs they seem to become over time. The job is just to good and the ability to practice CYA and vote their own future in is a given option. The ovewhelming human instinct to make your own plight better and appear to do the job is going to win out every time, we humans are fallible and we can and will disappoint, threfore we need to put up safeguards. Limiting the number of terms, using moritoriums to stave off automatic appointments as favortitism and public intitative to stave off the ability to make cover-up a means to avoid. If you want to serve the public then that will be the job, your reward will be honor and pride and not so much the material life you seek.

  • jtrailroad

    i kno immigration law to bad our DOJ dossnt know nor will he look up our laws that haave been passed.its time to enforce our immigration laws now.our border guards should havve the rigght to shoot first ask question 2nd to stop drugsd and human traficing!thier job is protect this nation. guards shouldnt go on trial because they sshoot a personswe should have camps along our southerrn border where immigration judgea can check for legal papers in the butt or sttop a van with drugs or illegal aliens.we should have camps long our southern bodeer to hold illegal in each camop should have an immigation judge to check for papers and a doctor to make sure they are drug and decease freee too. judgesw should be able to peport perople that dont have thier paper work or have deceases!

  • H20 Harvey

    Dave, you complain about the Mexican farmers loss due to NAFTA.
    I worked in a computer repair facility in Coloeado. tHE COMPANY brought some Mexicans in and asked us to train them so they could go back to Mexico and work in the COMPANY plant there. What happened? The work was sent to Mexico. cheaper labor. Over 400 employees, including me, were laid off, I was over 60, no one would hire me , they hired younger people. Good old NAFTA!
    Wake up Dave.

    • Save America Susie

      H20 Harvey–That is why we need to get manufacturing back in this country. I think we killed our country, when we sent everything out of the country, trying to worship the all-mighty dollar.

  • jtrailroad

    pres Obama wants not reform but comprehensive immigration this is a cop out for AMMNESTY!

  • Dale Cunningham

    In every Private business that I know of ….. Management is “usually” in control of their business… I will give an anology of how I see things…. Imagine that you have been hired to be the Ticket taker (collector, one who admits you to a game, movie or concert) but you do not take the ticket and make sure they are right, and just let every Tom, Dick, and Harry in whether they have a ticket or not… How long do you think you will last when Management discovers you are not doing your JOB? I believe this Countries Management based on their performance is (You decide) A. Has a hidden agenda B. Is either at a party doing? C. Not doing their JOB…. Or D. All of the above and more… Can you imagine when your boss calls you on not doing your job and you start yelling racist? duh duh duh… HOW DUMB DOES IT GET? These “ILLEGAL,ILLEGAL ALIENS” are costing us “LEGAL” tax payers 700 to 800 (BILLION DOLLARS) per year….for them being here…. If they want a ticket they are more than welcome to do it legally…. DUH to you that do not understand this as you are dumber than dumb… WE NEED TO FIRE THE M A N A G E M E N T FOR NOT DOING THE JOB WE ELECTED THEM TO DO, AND UPHOLD OUR CONSTITUTION… AMEN!

    • Randy Goeman

      Maybe we need to make the House of Represntives operate under the draft system so a person can be chosen to run for a year then return to their job afterwards.

  • http://yahoo.com marc

    screw you yahoo.move to mexico kockroach.

  • Lou

    There is a cheap simple solution to regaining control of our borders that many other country s wouldn’t hesitate to use. Start shooting at people sneaking across the border. Only a few would actually get shot before the flow of illegals would dry up. It would only take a day or so before the word got out south of the border. No large army required, no fence required. Just the genuine threat of lethal force.

  • http://GOGGLE vaksal

    AFTER READING THIS ARTICLE,IT SEEMS CLEAR AS DAY THAT THE COMMUNIST HAVE SEIZED CONTROL OF THIS NATIONS GOVERNMENT,ITS BEYOND BAD,WITH ALL THAT CHIP WOOD HAS WRITTEN THIS NATIONS (U.S.CONSTITUTION) IS BEING USED LIKE TOILET PAPER BY THESE ZIONIST NEO-COMS AND THEIR COMMUNIST ALLIES,AND HAVE DISSECTED THIS NATION INTO TOTAL COLLAPSE,THE QUESTION IS ,DOES THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE THE WILL TO SAVE THEIR VERY OWN FREEDOM,THIS ROAD THEY ARE TAKING IS THE VERY SAME ROAD THAT RUSSIA TOOK YEARS AGO AND CHINA DID TOO.AND I LOOK AT THEIR NAMES AND THEY ARENT IRISHMEN.

  • uSNpops

    What I wonder is “Why is there a debate” over illegal anything.

    By law illegal is illegal, and should be handled in a legal and appropriate manner by the established justice system.

    What’s next, are we going tg give amnesty to “Illegal Murderers” or “Illegal Burgalers”, and then lets stop enforcing the Speed Limits, that’s illegal as well.

    • Save America Susie

      USN POPS…Because some people just don’t get it. It amazes me also, why the word “ILLEGAL” is not understand by everyone. ILLEGAL = breaking the laws! I agree…it should be so simple.

  • Ben Martin

    George Orwell got it right in “1984″, “He who controls the past, controls the future”. We need true citizens and public service minded people to engage in government bringing to life and enforcing the constitutions (National & States) which established this great sovereign land “THE UNITED STATES”. A country bonded in unity, not uniformity, by the core principles that affords us our freedom and holds us responsible to each other (governed, governing … for the people, by the people).
    Remember the axiom Power corrupts and Absolute Power corrupts absolutely. This is the path Washington DC has been leading us on for over a half century now. No quick and painless solution is worthy of exploration. In order to embrace diversity and leverage it for the benefit of all, we must accept the common ground of understanding our differences, then with responsibility develop trust and good faith to open up freedom’s gates to those who give (not take) for the benefit of the community and country they wish to be a part of! There are no party lines along this path to a thriving land (no room for politics and grandstanding on this issue).
    For those who are only out for themselves (both current citizens and illegal aliens), without any consideration for those who gave and give their lives to form a more perfect Union their citizenship should go unrewarded. All the rights, responsibilities and freedoms that accompany that distinction should be stripped from those who now garner it and take it for granted as well as rebuked from those who try to acquire it illegally. To allow amnesty to those who wish to acquire citizenship illegally is an affront to those who have pursued becoming citizens legally, not an option and founded on a lack of trust. To forgive those who have trespassed illegally, then have them return to their origin to seek citizenship legally through the proper channels is to commence a trust that will bear an abundance of fruit in the generations to come – as has been demonstrated throughout our history. As for those who are citizens and manipulate the system employing illegal aliens for their own profit, we should treat them with the same law & justice we treat convicted hijackers. They are attempting by force to take over our country (power for profit grab) while holding illegal aliens hostage in a foreign land.
    We need to cure the systemic root of this problem and this will not happen if we continue to politic for a solution and mask the issue by mending the symptoms. This issue needs to be addressed and worked by those who are most affected by it (the states and communities that carry the brunt of the burden in terms of humanity, finances, & economics) while being supported and complimented by our federal government (integrating an enacting resource to supplement and provide for long term resolution and growth of our nation). We didn’t get into this pickle overnight and if we realistically want to address the current situation we need to construct policies that are founded on trust to gain the trust of all parties involved. This can only be done over time forming relationships that coincide with our constitutions. Creating law that unifies a people these doctrines were formed to serve; those who wish to bequeath a better lifestyle to their next generation of citizens and are willing to go the extra mile in homage for those who proceeded for the last 235 years giving us the freedom to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.

    • Save America Susie

      I’m with you, Ben Martin! Good Speech!

  • Sam Chianello

    Tim Carpenter and Thom Hartmann hold ill-founded and naive opinions. In 1954, President Eisenhower dealt swiftly and decisively with the illegal alien issue. But In 1986, and to America’s detriment, President Ronald Reagan signed the Simpson-Mazoli Act into American Law. This across-the-board amnesty of 3.5 million illegal alien Mexicans, resulted in unchecked, chained illegal immigration. Misinterpretation of America’s 14th Amendment compounded this disaster with Birthright Citizenship for all newborns of illegals. The invasion continues, and is why Americans must suffer today’s immigration catastrophe. “IT IS A SAD DAY IN AMERICA, WHEN LAW MAKERS SIDE WITH LAW BREAKERS, AGAINST LAW ABIDING CITIZENS”….Ezola Foster 1992

  • refedmel

    “But the absurdities surrounding this issue don’t stop here. We also have the incredible spectacle of the most powerful lawyer in the land, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, vowing to use the full resources of his department to get the Arizona law declared unconstitutional—while at the very same time admitting, in sworn testimony before Congress, that he hasn’t even read the law!”

    Why is it absurd? Holder and Boss are blatant liberals with a one world government view. Reading ‘laws’ that go against their ideology are not to be considered and MUST BE REMOVED…the law is the last thing these legal thugs consider…..raw and unfettered power is their goal and god help us if these treacherous people gain another term.

  • Brad

    For great entertainment folks…It’s the Dave and Matt show! (Just read their posts.) For a great education on why Obama received votes and why conniving politicians keep getting re-elected, just read their posts. You will get an insight to the mentality of the some 30% to 40% of the people who still think Obamacare is OK, the 30% who disagree with AZ’s law, and why there are people who still believe in anthropogenic global warming. I’m serious here. I’ve always wondered how could anyone deny common sense and fact? (I mean, you can even forget the labels “conservative” and “liberal” here.) Well, there it is exposed to the world in Dave’s and Matt’s posts. Read and learn.

    • Dave

      yes, please read and please learn. Thank you for that. If you agreed with me I’d be more concerned. I respect your right to have your opinion though. I know I don’t have all of the answers I just know that I’m open to finding them where they lie. If hope and compassion are wrong then I don’t want to be right. I guess that’s why my views are on the left. I need to get back to doing my work so I don’t end up on unemployment on the government dime. That would make me unAmerican now wouldn’t it?

      • Brad

        “I know I don’t have all of the answers I just know that I’m open to finding them where they lie. If hope and compassion are wrong then I don’t want to be right.”

        Well, then, Dave, in all sincerity, I wish you the best finding the truth. I would hope that you analyze your sources. My frank opinion of you is that you are so open-minded, that you cannot discern the truth when it is right in front of your eyes.

        You infer that hope and compassion are not qualities exhibited by conservatives. Why do you believe that? Do you know such people? Or do you just accept the mantra that is always thrown out by the left? That is just one of many things how the left are offensive and hypocritical. They certainly do not have a monopoly on hope and compassion. Politically speaking, we could give you a full lecture on how the left’s policies and agenda is anything BUT hope and compassion.

        Being open-minded does not mean an abandonment of common sense values and ignorance of the facts. Declaring one’s self to be “open-minded” is also not some sort of medal to be worn on one’s sleeve or some way of showing others that you are some how better than they.

        • DaveH

          I grew up in a poor neighborhood. Later in life I lived in an upper-middle-class neighborhood. I have experienced many of both kinds of people and the conservatives are much more compassionate than any Liberals I have known. Liberals are compassionate with other peoples’ money. Conservatives are compassionate with their own money.

          • Save America Susie

            Exactly!

          • George E

            Thanks Dave. It was very generous of you to offer that opinion since you don’t identify yourself as a conservative.

      • DaveH

        Must be a Government job if you can write all those comments while at work, Dave.
        Read and learn from your comments? I think not. Country after country has failed pursuing Socialism. Yet you progressives (Liberals) think you can somehow get it right this time. Right now, Greece, Portugal, and Spain are paying the price. When do you guys learn?
        The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

    • valricoslash

      Right on Dave. They ought to give a Civics and basic economics test to eveyone before they are allowed to vote. No-we can’t do that because that would eliminate 80 percent of the Democrat electorate.

  • Alan

    If Obama were an American citizen, mabe he would take a firmer stance…. ?
    If the NWO agenda did not include destroying national sovereignty, would he then protect us…… ?
    If the applauders of the president of Mexico were placed where they belong (on the same deportation bus as the Mexican prez) would they still be applauding…… ?
    How do we get Obama off of his knees long enough to face impeachment proceedings…… ?
    How do we get you off your complacent asses long enough to sign even one of the many petitions in support of impeachment, removal from office, and trial…… ?
    Providing support for illegal activity is a crime, should it be punished…… ?

    • American liberal

      Alan…you’re going to have a very difficult time impeaching a president with a 54% approval poll….. And what would the charge be?.. Giving America a healthcare bill?…you people are so delusional…

      • JeffH

        54% approval poll, heh heh heh heh heh, such a joker you can be sometimes.

      • DaveH

        Where did that poll come from, Am Lib? MSNBC? The Huffington Post? Or, are you just fabricating facts like Liberals usually do? Here is what Rasmussen says:
        http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

      • http://aol wayne a

        american liberal,where in the hell have you seen a 54% approval rating? even among just democrats i would doubt it.every poll,every poll i have seen had obamas approval rating below 50%.in fact it has ran fromm 41-47%.was the poll you seen taken right after he was elected?

    • American liberal

      Alan…. Vincinte Fox spent more time here in America than he spent in Mexico as President Bushs guest….did it offend you that he also was applauded and treated with respect that we should treat a neighboring countrys president?

      • Alan

        Here, check out Fox
        http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16315142
        And if you want a list of charges to be filed against Obama–check out the petition sites (do your own homework).
        “delusional”—is the belief that approval (54% ?) will save him from the truth.

      • http://aol wayne a

        american lib,how many times did fox appear before our congress and demand something? how many times did he tell congress that our laws against legals needed to be changed? NEVERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

      • http://aol wayne a

        hey amer lib,i figured out where you seen that poll that had obama’s approval rating at 54%.it’s one they conducted in mexico last week.

  • valricoslash

    We are a nation of laws and I don’t see where the authorities can pick an choose which ones they want to enforce. Our national security depends on securing our borders, just like EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THIS WORLD including Mexico. Period. Arizona just made breaking the federal law, which Obama and previous adminsitrations refused to enforce (in an attempt to gain the good will of legal and perhaps illegal, voting hispanics and liberal do-gooders), illegal in Arizona. This gives them the authority to enforce the federal law under the auspicus of breaking an arizona law.

    I am tired of the same old argumant that these are “hard woking persons” who do the work that americans will not do. That is a total load of crap. They may start out picking oranges, but the eventually work their way into constrution and other industries where employers hire them for much less than they would have to hire an American. So who is getting screwed here? If you are a carpenter making $25/hr and your boss can find an illegal Mexican to do the same job for $15/hour, you will soon be looking at the unemployment line.

    When an employer gets caught hiring illegals the penalty ought to be severe–one years salary, benefits, and SSN and medicare taxes at the going American union rate. It won’t take long before the jobs for illegals will dry up and they will go home. Using the carpenter as an example that would be: $25 x 2080 = $52,000 + (52,000 x 30%)+ ($52,000 x 20%) = $78,000 for each and every illegal found in his employ. Now that would be a real incentive NOT to hire illegals and keep Americans (natural and nautralized) employed. If there are 10 million illegals taght are caught working, that would be $780 billion, which could go a long way to paying of some of our national debt. Maybe the Democrats in congress should run the actual numbers and they may even see the light. LOL

  • Lewis Munn

    On the jobs…I worked for a company that bought into the idea of using Mexican workers since they worked so cheaply. The lots of goods done in Mexico under the half-million-dollar-a year administrator had to be taken apart and assembled correctly before being sold!

    Ownership boasted they had saved a million dollars a year by the move, but if pressed did admit that it cost a milllion dollars a year to correct defects!

    But, of course, that has no relevancy.

    I know about the INS…we had a plant nearby employing lots of illegals, and they would rape the local girls, sell drugs, and they rented a place from me, and then took off to go to motels with the girls and did thousands of dollars damage while I was out of town!

    So muuch for the wonderful cleap illegal labor.

    I complained to the INS and they flat did NOTHING!!

    Our government agencies seem to be ordered to keep good potential immigrants out, and letting the worst of the worst through as easily as possible!

    Amnesty would just make these types of people permanent parts of our country, while still keeping the good and honest workers out!

  • chuck b

    brad

    right on the head. after reading their post i try to rationalize their politics, it leaves me bewildered. they try to smootbarry soetoroh over the illegal invasion (they may be illegals) like its no problem and we should grant these people citizenship just because they are here and possibly working. that says a lot about our laws.
    we should shut all immigration down until we ship these illegals out of the country and reassess the situation.
    barry soetoro, i believe, wants the illegals for two reasons, to break down this culture into a 3rd world aggregate and gain power from their vote, then possibly slip this country into a u.n. controlled world government.
    this is probably the greatest crisis this country is facing and we are being distracted intentionally by the soetoro government. why else would he not want to obey the law of the land.

    i posted this link yesterday and you should take a few minutes and watch: http://splodetv.com/video/immigration-gumballs

  • American liberal

    First, I support the right of those two citizens who were at the Suns game to wear their protest shirts and I’m glad they were allowed their ” right” to return to the game .. As long as they weren’t interfearing with anyone wanting to just watch the game… I’m just wondering where the Rightwing concern about protest rights when people wearing ” NO BLOOD FOR OIL tshirts were arrested and kickedout of Bush events?…or for people that had Anti Iraq war bumper stickers on their cars that weren’t allowed into republican events….also… Where was the concern over illegal immigration during 8 years of Bush?.. Now all of a sudden after just 18 months you think President Obama should already have immigration solved?… I suspect your just trying to pile on our current president … It doesn’t seem to be working because his approval polls are rising …54% this week….keep in mind he was elected by 53% to McCains 46%…..I don’t take president Obama as appologising to the world…. But I’m fine with it after the way the Bush administration snubbed his nose at the world and well as the way Bush trashed our constitution and bill of rights… And of course the way Bush broke international law over and over…..our current president has plenty to deal with and he’s going a fine job… Concidering the disaster left by the last administration….I understand most of you on the right have no intention of being fair to president Obama..it just isn’t going to happen….and I believe your hate will backfire on you…another hate artical on this site is no suprise at all… And the hypocracy is also no surprise…..I’d also respect the right of Anyone to wear a Che t shirt at a concert as I would the anti immigration t shirts at the Suns game… Again, the rightwing sees the world on a very narrow view… This country and most of the world had evolved way past you on the right… Your vision of America is long gone.. Thankfully..

    • valricoslash

      What poll are you using. Please inform me. the last I heard by one of the nationally recognized polls, he was down in the low 40′s. Was this poll taken at a teachers union meeting?

      • Cathy

        LOL…it would be a lot lower if they ever asked me and many of my friends.

      • American liberal

        Val…. Look up…Gallup poll… May 31st 2010…..president Obama is at 54%…. I’m sure a Glenn Beck , Fox news or Rush Limbaugh poll would have him a lot lower…. You angry vile people need to come to the reality of what a small minority you are…. This country doesn’t want the hateful way of life you want… You are not the voice of the American citizen….we don’t want your narrow hate filled ways in this country. … Were gonna make this country respected and loved again… Your going the way of the dinosaur…

        • Save America Susie

          Dear AL, There are a lot of other polls. Maybe 20 or more. The one I read from US News & World Report Political Bulletin said 47%. It depends on WHO you ask and WHERE you ask it. If you ask on a college campus or a senior citizen area.

          Nobody asked me….Just curious if you have you been asked lately?

        • Alan

          According to Gallup Daily http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx
          May 28-30, 2010, 47% approval, 46% disapproval.
          Do please note that the line is extending downward (diminishing approval) as the line travels into June, 2010.

        • DaveH

          Okay, from Gallup:
          http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

          And you haven’t seen anything yet. Wait until the inflation starts.

        • http://aol wayne a

          amer lib,just looked it up,it was 44% approval of all eligible voters! you must have seen the poll for dem. only!

        • Save America Susie

          Those polls have a way of nose-diving when you are not looking.

        • George E

          In your dreams.

    • Cathy

      Our vision of America is according to the Constitution, something the libtards want to forget about.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

      Actually Chuck B. you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no conservative that was not against Bush’s immigration policy. Why make things up? What are these great things Obama has done? Also made up. The latest Rasmussen Poll says only 25% of the people strongly approve of Obama’s job performance while 41% strongly disapprove. Meaning his base has lost confidence in him. His overall rating is between 45% and 48%. That is with the main stream media acting like cheerleaders. His victory was 52% to 46% over McCain and conservatives didn’t even like McCain so it was not exactly a sweeping victory. Good spin on a left wing blog but does not fly up against the truth.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

        Sorry Chuch B. I was addressing American liberal.

      • Libby

        Seriously, it was so hard to vote for McCain, but there was no way in hell I was going to vote Obama!

        • Save America Susie

          LIBBY, That was the dilemma a lot of us felt for sure!

        • DaveH

          Then you wasted your vote, Libby. What good did it do? Even if McCain had gotten elected, he is not a whole lot better than Obama. He was supported in the primaries by the MSM for a reason – he was one of the most Liberal Republicans. Government would still be growing if McCain was elected, albeit not so fast. We need people that can reverse that growth, not just slow it down. And the Republicans aren’t up to the task.
          Vote Libertarian, For Individual Freedom, Personal Responsibility, Limited Government, and Free Markets.

          • Save America Susie

            DaveH, Is there anyone out there on the horizon of Libertarians that stands out to you? I never hear any names. They sure are low profile as well. I see no standard-bearer….Wish I did.

          • DaveH

            Suzie,
            Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans want the Libertarian Party to get any exposure. And for good reason. Libertarians believe in Personal Responsibility (which Democrats dislike), and Personal Freedom (which Republicans dislike). And Leaders in both major parties fear the loss of power which would come from a Libertarian downsizing of Government. Very few people have even the slightest clue of the Libertarian principles. Any Libertarian candidate would be better than the best Democrat or Republican.
            Watch John Stossel on Fox Business News. He is doing a great job of explaining the Libertarian principles. That is why the Liberals hate Fox. They are introducing people to concepts which no other network will touch.

          • Save America Susie

            DaveH…I have been a life-long Republican, who has voted twice for a Democrat(and regretted it both times afterward). Until 9/11, I wasn’t much into politics. Just knew I was Conservative. The ONLY Libertarian I know the name of is: Glenn Beck. I admire him a lot. But of course he won’t run. I love his “Founders Fridays” on TV, where he tells about the lives and principles of a different Founding Father each week. It will run through the summer he said.

            Libertarians need exposure, big time. No one really knows much about them, but I am open to new ideas and not closed minded. I try to be fair minded & weigh all the evidence. But if something seems out of place with the Constitution or the Founders, I can’t go for it.

    • JeffH

      Am Lib got a late start today, must of had a few sick days off for a severe case of Alinskyitis. Nice to see nothing has changed.

      • http://aol wayne a

        yeah,seems like every comment site i get on amer lib is on there with his same arguments,the same arguments that nobody agrees with!

        • JeffH

          wayne a, Am Lib has a job to do, disrupt the site and change the direction of the thread, and you can see that most continue to get caught up in his same old game…that is why he is here. The same goes with Chaos and he few who use names in small caps.

    • airangel

      Am Lib…blaming Bush again? Don’t you ever tire of the same ol, same ol? Actually nothing has been done in 24 years since Reagan granted the first Amnesty…it’s gone on too long…Jan Brewer has made the first step in attacking it..she has lit the fire and now we need to keep it burning until its resolved satisfactorily according to the American “legal” citizens…

      1.Start with securing the borders
      2.Penalize companies hiring illegals
      3.Penalize citizens hiding and encouraging illegals
      4.Put cameras in every class room in every public school and monitor teachers and students. Fire any teachers not teaching the proper curriculm and inciting racism and promoting Illegal status, arrest and deport any students rebelling and portraying violence..we have too many bad educational influences into the minds of students not really educating but promoting gangs and anti-American violence such as LaRaza gangs and the teaching of Chicana and other books in our schools..too many teachers don’t teach or educate but promote their views and do not maintain objectivity…they need to go
      5.Offer Legal Citizenship or Deportation as a choice based on
      a.pay back taxes for each year you cheated the system
      b.learn english
      c.pledge allegiance to the United States of America
      d.pay all taxes as every working American does to your country of choice
      e.Uphold the laws of this country

      If you can not do these things then you choose Mexico or country in which you come from and will deport..this way they have a choice. Let’s clean house!

      • angel-wanna-be

        Airangel, No they are continuing their Bush Bashing, some Libs have even allegedly suggested, that Bush is indirectly responsible for the separation of Al and Tipper Gore, Uncle Al,lost the election and he apparently never got over it!

        • http://aol wayne a

          i seen one the other day where they were blaming bush for the oil spill!

        • Save America Susie

          Carter is still bitter that Reagan won! I can’t get over how bitter he is these days. Ruined his life, I guess. But, there can only be one president at a time. At least “W” has the grace to state that he refuses to criticize BO. His time is over now and he is retired. Guess he feels: “Silence is Golden”.

          • angel-wanna-be

            Save America Susie, yeah I’ve got to hand it Former President Bush, he’s taken a beating at the hands of the progressives. Which is what the Soro’s manifesto described to do. They’ve tried to keep the focus on Bush’s former policies, while this Administration trashes everything America is, was, and stands for and hopes no one notices. Thankfully a lot of us know this and don’t fall for it. Bush wasn’t perfect, as none of us are, still sadly some folks on here, fail to see the methods and motives of the progressives, and continue being progressive as well.

  • chuck b

    excuse the mis-type: “they try to smooth over” ( not barry soetoro!!!)

  • Cathy

    No wonder that BO is so against the Arizona law since it goes after illegal immigrants…just like him!

  • chuck b

    valricoslash

    just ignore her, (amer lib) she makes up her own polls and dreams!!

  • angel-wanna-be

    Yes Chip, your right, the debate over immigration does get crazier!__Jan Brewer & John McCain asked for at least 6000 National Guard__Correct me if I’m wrong but, Obambi is sending 1200 NG, with instructions to help curb human trafficking and drug smuggling__I know these issues are very serious as well, but my question is, What the hell does any of that, have to do with stopping illegal immigration? Unless the NG were given other orders, on the QT, out of earshot, of the News Media.__This is plain screwing around with an Republican Arizona Governor, plain and simple!!! It’s ALL BS, and all freakin’ politics!
    WASHINGTON, RUN THE DAMN COUNTRY!__Washington, your supposed to be securing our borders for Americans safety, instead your too busy, bailing out companies, buying up properties in the Northwest,(again correct me if I’m wrong)that most decidedly has oil on it,_ Hmmm, go figure!_ and too busy INDICATING, how we don’t know how to run our lives without YOUR intervention!!!__Run the Damn Country RIGHT!
    They make me sick!!

    • JeffH

      angel-wanna-be, no matter how much we want things to change with this POTUS, everything will continue to be campaigning and photo ops.
      I can’t hardly wait for Nov2010 to arrive. Holder & Napolitano never read 1070 yet their minds were made up well ahead of time…this whole administration is incompetent, hell Washington incompetent. They’re all out of order.

      • angel-wanna-be

        JeffH, what kills me Jeff, is Napolitano, was the sitting Governor when Jan Brewer took office, and she complained & sent letters in regards to the same damn issues, that Jan Brewer brought up. This stinking immigration bill, is the same as the Feds bill. The Feds are ticked off because Jan Brewer had some kahunas to enforce the bill state wide, and that made the poor little administration, look bad.
        That’s tough beans for them!__So in re-taliation, Bambi sends 1200 instead of the 6000 NG requested!__Sorry, ranting!! :)

        • JeffH

          angel-wanna-be, not to worry…every day more and more Americans get tired of the same old “dog & pony” show under the Big Top…same show different tricks…

    • GlennAz

      Our Arizona governor is doing her job but don’t be fooled by John McCain as he was with Kennedy on making them all legal. When John McCain first ran for the senate only a republican could get elected in this state but he was far from being a republican. I would vote for mickey mouse before voting for him. There is no one that switches horses faster than him. If you notice he didn’t back any immigration laws until he found out that 70 percent in the state was in favor of it. If you go to numbers usa you will find he still is wishy washy on what he backs and only says what the public wants to hear. But after the election watch he revert back to old McCain.

      • JC

        Don’t forget his support for gun control. The guy is a political whore and not an American Statesman.

  • marvin

    i see we have some more liberals spouting their free free free thank progresives almighty is is all free to them it is perfectly ok to say man was a monkey,[would like to see a monkey turn in to man] this world and all just happed the earth just happen to be just the right distance from the sun,with just the right tilt at differant time for the seasons, turns one time in 24 hr has a big rock in the sky to light the night and make the tide go and come if this is right, hell i think i will go on a rampage and rid this world of a bunch of know it all,s an,t no god an,t no after live an,t no retribution an,t no final judgment we are born we live we die were goin, i wonder why it is, in ever state constitution it starts with supreme being or something to that effect,as for illegals the only people i know that can pick what laws they want to obay is the goverment i guess if my mother was a loose woman and my dad was just out for sex and i was raised not knowing any better i just may have been a liberal any thing goes like we have all broke the law and so 6 million illegals having babies so they can stay here is ok and i demand you feed me and give me right you as a citizen don,t have in my home country so just get out there and work hard your goverment needs the money to support me and my kin so i can have more kid for you to feed

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Janice, Alabama native

    Don’t have time to read all the blogs. My only comment regardng this problem is as follows: Send all the illegals to Washington D.C. If anyone wants to help in rounding them up, I volunteer to drive to Arizona or any where else, pick up a truckload and deposit them on the steps of the U.S. Capitol building. I would go help round them up, but I am old and in poor health. I would die with a smile on my face if we could deposit some of this illegal baggage where it belongs – capital building and the white house. Don’t mean to disrespect the president’s residence, but as long as the imposter-in-chief is in residence I cannot capitalize it.

    • meteorlady

      If anyone really wants to round them up, go to any large city find where they stand out the day labor street corner, offer them a job, pile them into your pickup and drop them off at the nearest immigration office – call the immigration office before getting there so they know you’re coming.

      If Immigration really wanted to do their job, they would have been checking the demonstrators and hauling the illegals in.

  • American liberal

    Marvin…. Is that the brand of English you want immigrants to speak?… I’m not sure what you mean… But neither are you..

  • Chaos factor

    Angel… American presidents don’t take orders from Arizona governors …

    • airangel

      Chaos…he might not take orders…but she sure stirred the pot and made him listen…that’s a start, one of many yet to play out!

      • angel-wanna-be

        Airangel, Damn Straight, Jan Brewers got a set!!!__Hold the line girl!!!

        • Claire

          angel-wanna-be–If we are lucky maybe Jan Brewer would run for President. I’d vote for her.

          • angel-wanna-be

            Claire, I’m hearin’ that!_I’m so sick of these mindless politicians who’s only ambition, seem to say, “What’s In It For Me” or the Rookie politician with good intentions, getting caught up in the corruption, who has little or no experience, in fighting against, the temptations of Washington corruption.___BTW_ Quite Honestly, I’ve got my eye on New Jersey’s Chris Christy.I like what he’s about, but time will tell if he crumbles. The guy seems to have some brass and not afraid to stand up to waste and fraud. If he pans out, we need more like him in politics, period!

          • Claire

            angel-wannabe — I will check him out. I have some very good friends in New Jersey and I trust their judgment. In fact, they are looking to move. They said the taxes in New Jersey are horrendous. I sent them literature on homes here in my area and they could not believe the prices and the taxes!! They said Illinois has cheaper taxes and the cost of homes are much cheaper. They were astounded.
            And here I though my taxes were awful.

          • JeffH

            angel-wanna-be, everything I read, see and hear about Christy is A++++++. Did you see the video of the NJ school teacher bitchin’ at him…he put her in her selfish place with a loud round of applause. Talk about integrity…I see a future president I could really support with Christy.

          • angel-wanna-be

            JeffH, Yeah your right, Christi, really blasted the teacher about (what she feels, her measley $82,000 a year teaching job???__We’d all be sittin pretty good, if we made that kind a money a year, wouldn’t we?__I know it’s off the thread here, but Here’s another link of Christi telling it, like it is, hope link works, if not go to, youtube Chrish Christi smacks down reporter.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWxZolY4iLU

          • angel-wanna-be

            Claire, check out this link, it will give you a a lil’ taste of who Chris Christi is. I like him and I’m not from Jersey! Like I stated, if he pans out, I agree with JeffH, I see a future President as well!
            We’ll be watching!!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWxZolY4iLU

          • angel-wanna-be

            JeffH and Claire, Correct if I’m wrong, anyone, but the unions are the ones who don’t like Christi, and I believe are the ones putting smear ads on TV about Christi. He doesn’t seem to pander to ANYONE, opposers don’t like that, but I sure as hell do!

          • JeffH

            Chris Christie says it so well…”no one in New Jersey will have to wonder where I am on an issue”…he says it bluntly, straight to the point and in plain english so there is no misunderstanding him…that is what America needs more of, screw political correctness…that is how Christie got elected and he hasn’t wavered one bit.

          • Claire

            Angel–He sure sounds good to me. I appreciate a person that stands on their own two feet and speaks their mind. I will keep watch on him.

    • Save America Susie

      Dear CF, On the other hand…American Presidents are NOT KINGS. The thing is…There is a system of checks and balances here in America. The President can also be over-ruled in many cases by the Congress or Supreme Court. He is not a Monarch. George Washington–our 1st Prez.– would have concurred, as he hated the idea of the Presidency being like a Kingship. They actually wanted to make George Washington the King and he adamantly refused. He had nightmares of the King of England’s rule. If we’d wanted more of the same, we would have stayed with the Old England’s standard of the KINGS. Even they’d abandoned it now themselves, and royalty is just a figurehead.

      • GlennAz

        Susie the trouble with the president we have now is that he is a king. Like it or not with the majority in the house and senate everything he wants he gets. But the youth wanted change so hope they are happy now.

        • JeffH

          GlennAz, he thinks he’s like a king and no, he’s not getting everything he wants anymore…the WH is so disorganized that his failed leadership is exposing himself. Nobody believes the Marxist rhetoric anymore…all talk, no action and the rest of the world is laughing out loud.

          • Save America Susie

            Hope it is a turning point. 6 months to go!!

        • Save America Susie

          GlennAZ….I know, for the longest time we have felt so helpless, except for the Tea Party Demonstrations, which were largely over looked by the WH as if they did not exist.

    • JeffH

      you’re absolutely right…the bigger question is who then does issue his orders?

      Who Owns Obama? OBAMA HAS SO MANY MASTERS that he’ll be tap dancing 24 hours a day. His faithful cultists, kool-aid drinkers, entitlement junkies, and clueless supporters will be first to be stabbed…and last to realize it.
      Rahmbo? Upon his son’s appointment as Obama’s Chief of Staff, Dr. Benjamin Emanuel (”Auerbach” was his original surname) had some choice slanderous words for the Arabs: “Obviously my son will influence the president to be pro-Israel. Why wouldn’t he be? What is he, an Arab? He’s not going to clean the floors of the White House.”

      Brzezinski? WITH THE FORMATION of an Obama administration, beginning with Obama’s pick of Rahm Emanuel as Chief of Staff, some are saying that Obama is “distancing” himself from the Pro-Palestinian Zbigniew Brzezinski. Brzezinski affirmed his endorsement of Obama: “Obama is a transformative figure. Look at the disastrous foreign policy decisions by the Bush administration. Give me Obama’s wisdom any day.”

      Me thinks That Barky Will Have At Least 2 Sets Of Tap Dancing Shoes On Hand…

      Is it the Zionist Jews who own Obama, his ‘administration,’ and essentially control America via its monetary system, its professions, its education system, its media culture, and every other crucial piece of America’s societal infrastructure. If an incumbent president doesn’t play ball with the Zionist Jews, his political career is over.

      America voted in ‘Change’ alright. The Barky dog and pony show must have the Jews laughing their Zionist butts off from NY to Tel Aviv to London.
      http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=319

      So many questions yet so little time for answers.

      • Save America Susie

        Then its: “See ya Bo!” if that is what you think, JeffH. That is pretty scary stuff, I agree. However…Bo doesn’t even seem to like Israel very much, and many American Jews are having their eyes open for the 1st time that voted for him. Bo seems to side with the Arabs instead. That’s a confusing one.

        • JeffH

          Susie, this isn’t my thoughts, but the more we read through research, the more we start to understand. Again the Rothschild(Zionist)name surfaces. THE HOUSE OF ROTHSCHILD BEGAN THEIR MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENT IN THE ZIONIST STATE of Israel in 1882.
          http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=129

          Controlling Obama has nothing to do with his approval or dis-approval of Israel itself…controlling Obama is more about the “means to an end”. A much bigger picture to be seen.

          Zionists are not afraid to say they are Zionists, not just “pro-Israel” but Zionist. Zionists who are members of the Jewish people are not afraid to be proud that they are Jewish. “Zionist” is a dirty name only in the mouths of racist and evil minded people. Some of them use it as a “polite” way of saying “Jew”.
          http://www.zionism-israel.com/Zionists.htm

          • Save America Susie

            JeffH, I see what you are saying now…I am not Jewish, but I certainly support them as our Traditional Ally. It is sad to see the current Government turn on them. But you know there are more Jewish people here in the USA than in Israel, when you think about it. I sure have a lot of links to read over the weekend from this site. Now I gotta go plan dinner….Maybe will check this tomorrow.
            Thanks.

          • JeffH

            Save America Susie, always a pleasure…so much to digest with all of this stuff. Enjoy.

    • John Doe

      Actually, American presidents do “take orders” or otherwise abide by a state’s sovereignty. Here are some examples…..gay marriage – legal in 5 states; medical marijuana – legal in 3? states; property taxation (money goes to state government), etc. States have an individual right to enact laws that are unique to their particular situation. Arizona is alot closer to Mexico than Colorado or haven’t you noticed. The flood of illegals are coming in from the south to California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. I’ve not heard of a problem with them coming in off the Atlantic, Pacific, Gulf of Mexico or Canada. The Mexican president needs to take care of his own and keep his nose out of our business. He doesn’t pay U.S. taxes does he? Here is another little known fact. In San Antonio, Texas (not sure if it is everywhere in Texas) when Mexicans come to shop, particularly at Christmas and Easter, they don’t have to pay sales tax. They pay it at the time of purchase and then get it reimbursed later.

    • http://aol wayne a

      chaos,no they don’t but the president and i use that word loosely, we have now doesn’t take orders from nobody and doesn’t listen to ANYONE! everything americans have said,obama does the opposite!

    • angel-wanna-be

      Chaos Factor, Quite frankly being in the office of President, should be humbling, EGO has nothing to do with it, as your reply suggests. He’s there to over see, not TAKE OVER, which is what he’s done! He’s there to assist Governors of ALL the states, in all plights and problems that are too big for the States to handle themselves. It’s looks pretty damn catty, if you will, for Obambi to choose to not support Jan Brewer, especially since she’s a Republican Governor and not a supporter of his. Even in a crisis situation, It’s still ALL politics a usual!!___Where’s that HOPE AND CHANGE?

      • Save America Susie

        Angel-wanna-be….My feelings too….And I have NEVER in my life seen a President that wanted to be the CENTER of attention more than BO. He holds the record for being on TV for sure. Almost every day for quite a while there after the inauguration he was on. Like he wants to be a rock star. “W” kept a pretty low profile in comparison, but he did come out for the various speeches, when needed.

        (There were never any TV debates–by the way–before Nixon and JFK.)

        …But BO takes the cake.

        • angel-wanna-be

          Save America Susie, your exactly right!__I’ve never witnessed a President to take a question from the press core, and take 17 minutes NOT answering it!_-That’s what freakin’ amazes me!

  • Todd

    So, just to be sure, everyone who is against the AZ immigration law (and since they are against that, they must be against the US’s immigration laws on the books as well), then they want to live in a society where laws are unenforced, borders don’t exist, and where emotions and “feel good” rules their lives. Lovely. Hitler tossed out the rule of law and replaced their system of justice w/ good old fashioned “folk” emotion to drive their legal system during the nazi reign. Laws are always the first to fall (followed shortly by freedom) in totalitarian regimes. Does this mean all of you who are against laws protecting our citizens would rather have a totalitarian regime in place instead? I suppose all you libs would be fine with it as long as it was a liberal who was in charge. I hear Hugo Chavez might want a crack at that spot.

  • meteorlady

    I am saddened that this is even up for debate. I am saddened that we have adequate immigration laws on the books and they really don’t need fixing. All we need to fix is the fact that we don’t enforce what we have, we misinterpret the existing 14th Amendment, and we keep letting this happen again and again and again.

    I consider Mexico on of THE most corrupt countries in the world right now. They have the strictest immigrations laws and they enforce them. What I hated was for their corrupt puppet leader to come here and lecture us on our duties and responsibilities while millions of his citizens are starving for lack of education and jobs. If the Mexican people were willing to fight for their rights instead of breaking our laws and coming here for the handouts I would have more respect. I just don’t believe that citizens that will abandon their country, cross a border illegally, fly their country’s flag and then want rights are the type of new citizens we need in this country. We already have enough blood suckers and welfare cheats here and can’t even take care of our own anymore.

    We have existing laws that the Federal Government REFUSES to enforce. Maybe we should all band together and hire a constitutional attorney and start litigation to ensure that our laws are enforced.

    As for the t-shirt – I will certainly pick one up when I head for Arizona on my vacation.

    • Save America Susie

      Meteorlady…I agree….”These are the times that try men’s souls!”

      I think America is at a Crossroads!

  • Chaos factor

    Maybe all you angry Government hating radical oddballs should concider reporting to all those” DeathPanels” you insisted are in the healthcare Bill…you can hold your breath and stomp your feet and have all the tantrums you want…. This countrys moving forward with a progressive agenda no matter what you want…we don’t want or need you hateful rightwing malcontents…everyday it’s a new issue that you hate about America… And it’s usually issues you ignored or created….if you don’t like it… Leave it……..

    • JeffH

      Dream on rainbow chaser…dream on…
      Those words are a classic example of Alinsky’s teachings.

      “A Marxist begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of the proletariat by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and finally the last stage — the political paradise of communism.”

      …the “jig” is up!…

      • DaveH

        Interesting that he used the term “political” paradise. That is indeed the truth, as the leaders are the ones who succeed with Socialism and Communism. The citizens mostly just get screwed.

    • airangel

      and a progressive agenda is better how? please enlighten me oh chaotic one! and don’t use Greece or Europe or a Welfare state as they are all going to the Sharks…sinking, sinking, sinking

    • George E

      Chaos,

      It’s unlikely the majority will give up and leave just because the minority, which has lots of money and political influence, has temporary control.

    • DaveH

      Talk about a Hater. Chaos pretty much fits that description. Thanks for posting, Chaos, so the fence straddlers can see what Liberals are all about. Little substance, mostly name-calling, ridicule, and other manipulative tactics similar to those used by eighth graders.

    • http://aol wayne a

      chaos,you’re a real idiot! you’re just like amer lib,you go to these different comment sites ranting and raving but nobody agrees with you! i wonder why?

  • Rodney

    Dave,

    In reference to your comment about the Confederate Flag, the South fought under that flag with an extreme amount of PRIDE! Being a good ol Texas boy, I can empathize with all Southerners at that time. Who gives you the right to call Southerners unpatriotic for flying a flag which is steeped in patriotism and honor? It really doesn’t matter who won the Civil War, but rather the fact that each side was fighting for values they believed in. And I am NOT referring to the slavery issue!!

    The great State of Texas fought hard and long to win its independence from Mexico and eventually forced Santa Anna to surrender at Goliad. It was because of our efforts for independence that we proudly fought for the South during the Civil War. Yes, I will admit that the South “lost” the war, but as the old adage goes, “The South will rise again”.

    I hope that with what Arizona is currently doing, Texas and all states along the Mexico border will follow suit. I heard some very disturbing news from a radio station in Tucson today that the Mexican government is putting an office in some city in California, with the purpose of handing out ID cards to illegal immigrants. I cannot believe that California is allowing this, and especially cannot believe that the US government is allowing it. All this is gonna create is the ability for more illegal immigrants to come into the US by way of California and get access to welfare and other benefits, all paid for by both you and me!!!

    I will close this by stating that it is a good thing that I am not sitting anywhere on the border watching for anyone trying to come across illegally. I am a proud citizen of the United States and would not be able to sit by and watch this happen. Neither should you! But then you apparently live in the Northern US and do not have to worry about your children (if you have them) being kidnapped by Mexicans in the US illegally and taken back to Mexico to be sold as slaves. My wife and 4 children currently live in Tucson and have to be cautious of a Mexican mafia that is known to live in the area. Why is nothing being done about them?

    • Rod the Other

      RODNEY..That office you refered to has been established on the Island of Catalina. They are handing out matricular cards. See link: http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2010/06/03/mexico-infiltrates-catalina-island-consular-issues-matricular-cards/

      It is very said what has happened to the Formerly beautiful island of Catalina. I have heard that the percentage of ILLEGALS living on the island is somewhere around 70%! Recently a report came out about the most polluted beaches in California. It was put out by “heal the bay”. While a large number of beaches that used to rank high on the list of most polluted beaches have fallen. The harbor on Catalina Island is getting worse and worse. The ILLEGALS are doing what ILLEGALS do….They are trashing a National Treasure!

  • http://yahoo.com Sue C

    Hey Chip! I have the answer to the immigration problem. Let the US close all its immigration offices, and let all those people lose their jobs, then those who use to have a job, will start stealing from the rich, the middle income, and the poor. How about that for an answer?

    • http://aol wayne a

      sue c,that was stupid!

    • Rod the Other

      SUE C. EXCELLENT POST!….I couldn’t have found a better demonstration of LIBERAL-LOGIC If I’d had tried for a thoushand years.

      I want to hear more from you.

      Please explain how closing down the legal means of immigration will combat the ILLEGAL entry of aliens.

      Your a peach :)

  • Palin12

    I know an acqaintance in Hawaii that was ranting and raving against Arizona’s immigration law. I got a good chuckle out of that when I looked up the stats and saw that Hawaii ranked 50th in number of illegal aliens, with an estimated 2,000 in the state.

    • Frank the Libertarian

      Too far to swim or row.

    • Claire

      Palin12– I read that Illinois is #5. With Chicago, I thought we would be rated higher.

  • Chaos factor

    Paul McCartney at the whitehouse………… It’s good to have a President in the Whitehouse that actually know what a Library is after the last 8 yrs…………….well said Paul…

    • Save America Susie

      CF, I thought that was one of the SADDEST moments EVER recorded….
      Paul McCartney never knew how many people he just alienated by that low statement. That’s a blind spot for many Liberals, they don’t realize how heavy their words are. They think its a cute joke. They think America is just for them & no one else. His digging words were very inappropriate for having just received an award for music at the White House. BO was laughing in the background with sick enjoyment of the obvious implication. So much for all the SONGS about LOVE Paul recorded.
      …Breaks my heart.

      “LOVE does not delight in evil….”

      • George E

        Suzie,

        That’s right. Many liberal entertainers don’t understand that a good portion of their fans are not liberal. They’d be much wiser to keep their political views to themselves or at least soften them so they don’t offend their fans. It could be a major financial mistake to publicly express their liberal views…

        • Save America Susie

          George E, Yes, “The Dixie Chicks” Country music singing group found that out real fast a few years ago when they started to be booed at their concerts when they were talking politics and demeaning the troops. I think it hurt their CD sales and concert sales a lot. I am just floored at the thoughtlessness of some people in the media and show business. Thanks for your thoughts.

          • Claire

            Susie_ The Dixie Chicks lost a lot of fans, including me and my entire family.

  • Jimminety Bop

    Every bleeding heart, politically correct person that is against Arizona’s 1070 law is using the argument that it will be nothing more than racial profiling and that this matter should be left to the Feds to round them up and do the deporting.

    So say that we do let it to the Feds – what system will they use to identify illegals? Probably a system of racial profiliing. Guess it’s O.K. for the Feds to do it that way, just not legal or right to let it up to the authorities of Arizona. Sounds like double talk to me!

    • Frank the Libertarian

      You have a good point. Every dang form that asks what color, or race or ethnicity is is a form of racile profiling! But of course theres always some lame sxcuse and justification to this type of information.

  • American Liberal

    I wonder what good old Ronald Reagan would have done about illegal immigration?

    • George E

      That’s a good question. We may never know, but I’d bet you that he would say that giving amnesty to illegal immigrants was a mistake because the guys he made the deal with didn’t follow through on their part of the deal; ie, closing the borders to stop the continued flow of illegals into this country.

    • GlennAz

      No one will ever know because he legalize the mexicans under the promise by the democrats that they would secure the border. Of course he did his share but the democrats didn’t. Regan should have know with his years in politics that the democrats rarely keep their promise so it was really his fault.

    • http://aol wayne a

      amer lib,a hell of alot better job than obama and his croonies!

    • Save America Susie

      Dear AL, Reagan’s biggest mistake…He gave them Amnesty and look where that’s gotten us: to the point of Chaos.

  • Chaos Factor

    Ronald Reagan….? What did George W. Bush do for 8 years about illegal immigrants?…………………nothing!….. He was to busy ” finding new ways to destroy America”……destroying things is a rightwing passtime…

    • JeffH

      …don’t lose your focus…

    • http://aol wayne a

      chaos,to begin with,bush did send thousands of troops to the borders!and you said bush was destroying the country lol.lets see,unemployment was 6.4% when bush left,its now over 10%. our deficit has tripled since obama took office,the largest in our history!we have the most people unemployed in our history,we have the most foreclosers in our history and we have the most business failures in our history.we just had the largest natural disaster under the obama watch.they said illegal immigration has continued to increase because of the hopes that obama will give them amnesty and citizenship.now who in the hell is destroying this country!

    • angel-wanna-be

      Chaos Factor____YAWN! ;)

  • Frank the Libertarian

    Distractions-Distractions…all this mess is designed to do is keep us distracted from the REAL adjenda.

    Why is Immigration such a problem this year, why not 20 years ago?

    Is it because 30 million Americans have lost their jobs?

    Are 30 million people out of work because of a collapsed economy?

    Did the economy collapse because of a central Bank that owns us?

    Do we have a central bank because the Amrican people wanted one?

    Do the American people understand their Constitution?

  • George E

    I don’t care if the 14th amendment was properly ratified or not. I believe the issue is that it is no longer relevant to our lives today, and has long outlived its usefulness (since it was originally intended to protect former slaves from being deported as non-citizens). So, it should be rescinded and removed to the dustbins of history. This law is not only insane in today’s world, but illegal immigrants are taking advantage of it by the tens of thousands, and we are paying the bill, or shall I say, charging the bill so our children can pay it in the future….with interest.

    Apparently, there are essentially two special interest groups fighting against protecting our borders from illegal immigration. They are 1) those who want cheap labor in this country, and 2) those who want the minority vote. It has been said that Republicans are behind the first and Democrats the second.

    Seems to me that if we agree, and I’m almost 100% certain that nearly everyone on this board, including conservatives, independents, and Republicans, will agree that employers who knowingly and willingly hire illegal immigrants should be severely fined and otherwise punished, if necessary, to control this problem. If that were done, then we could focus the fight against the remaining special interest group. Then it seems to me that if we allow many of these temporary workers to legally enter with visas to work and live here for short periods, it would be very difficult for this special interest to argue that it is more humane to keep them in the shadows illegally than give them temporary legal status. After all, many in this special interest group also complain about violations of human rights and liberties for illegal immigrants. Wouldn’t that problem be lessened if these folks were provided a path to work here legally?

    Regardless, how we do it, we must secure our borders, whatever the cost. This not only means our southern border, but all borders, including our various ports of entry. And, under no circumstances should we give any illegal immigrant US citizenship via another amnesty program. That just rewards bad behavior and invites more of the same.

    • Frank the Libertarian

      I agree about the employers. One problem are the Unions..a few are bringing them into the Union regardless if they are legal or not! Theres an organization looking out for the working American!

  • chuck b

    amer lib
    that was a one time deal and the government hasn’t enforced our immigration law since.

    your messiah is trying to ignore our law along with the incompentent att. gen. holder, between the two of them they couldn’t make a cheese sandwich, such ignorance. soetoro is making bill clinton look like an up standing citizen and you know that’s not true. maybe we should print the immigration law on a basketball, that would get his attention, of course we would have to get someone to read it to holder or maybe draw pictures then both could understand.

  • Chaos Factor

    Rodney … It’s just avrightwing myth that illegals have access to programs meant for American citizens…check .. Snoops.com… Factcheck…. Truthorfiction… Any fact site you wish….but I’m pretty sure the rightys on here will just claim all the ” fact sites are run or owned by liberals…. That’s their ” out” for everything..

    • DaveH

      Okay. From TruthorFiction:
      http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/p/petition-illegals.htm
      “Social Services
      Let’s look at this from the standpoint of California since that is the concern of the petition and is the state with the largest population of illegal immigrants.
      A wide range of services are available in California for illegal immigrants including health care and education for children.
      College Tuition
      At present in-state college tuition rates are available to undocumented immigrants as long as they meet other standards such as residency requirements.”

      • American Liberal

        DaveH…. Lmaoooooo…I know this may be a big word for you… But if you look right above the artical you claim gives all those benifits to illegals… In Big Red letters… It says….FICTION…. Do you need anymore direction as to what that word means?…. Let me help you….. It means it’s not true… You must be feeble in your old age….

        • Claire

          American Liberal–Are you related to the Energizer Bunny? You take a licking and keep on ticking.

          • JeffH

            …too funny…

          • George E

            That’s a good one, Claire. You apparently have a lot of energy as well to be that sharpe this late in the day…..ha.

          • Claire

            George E — lol —I was so tired last night–and this sounds different from the norm, but if I am very tired, I can get silly.

          • George E

            Claire,

            We can always use a good laugh, so long as it’s done in good taste. Thanks.

          • Claire

            George E–Don’t worry about me. I will not post anything that is in bad taste. I will behave myself!
            Egads, I just came in from walking my elderly blind dog and is it ever hot and humid. Another storm coming in this area. I can hardly wait.

          • George E

            Claire,

            Send us some rain, please. We’re about to dry up and blow away here in Dallas. You can keep the hail and tornados, however,….ha.

          • Claire

            George E–You said to send you some rain–we had rumblings here but nothing happened, it traveled north of us and then easterly to Ohio. Northern Ohio was hit with an F2 tornado. I hate to see storms. We had a real bad one week before last, a real gully washer. People lost cars, basements flooded, etc. The worst flash flood I have ever seen here. Whatever happened to nice, gentle rains?

          • George E

            Oh my goodness. Take care and watch out for the tornados.

        • DaveH

          Wow, Am Lib, I guess we can add illiterate to your list of qualifications. You better have somebody read the article to you, so you can understand it. Maybe you have a neighborhood eighth-grader with some free time to help you out.

    • http://aol wayne a

      chaos,stop making up lies! i know of three families of illegals personally that are getting welfare and gov. subsidized housing! chaos stop making things up!

  • American Liberal

    Chuck… Then how can you blame Obama after only 18 months in office when republicans had the whitehouse for 20 of the last 29 years?…you expect Obama to already have it solved..president Obamas had to deal with everything from pirates to the economy…. I see this as republicans always screwing up them blaming any democrat administration that has to follow them

    • DaveH

      Typical Liberal Misinformation. Sure, if you start the time line anywhere you want. Here are the stats for the last 65 years:
      http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm

      Figures don’t lie, but Liars can figure.

      • DaveH

        Notice, by the way, who controlled Congress during most of those 65 years.
        By the way, I’m not a big fan of Republicans, but they are certainly the lesser of two evils.

        • American Liberal

          DaveH… Get your dictionary out and look up the word ” Fiction”.. Because that’s what it says right next to the article of social Services you claimed illegals get…. I’m not sure you even know what day of the week it is… That’s so funny… You were so positive they got those benifits…. You should stop listening to Glenn Beck… He’s geared to appeal to ” not so smart ” people…. That was your own site to… I already knew it was false

          • DaveH

            Am Lib,
            Get out your dictionary and look up the word “illiterate”. That’s what you are. No wonder you are a Liberal. Maybe you can take an English class and learn how to read.

      • American Liberal

        DaveH…. I don’t need to go back 65 yrs… All I need to do is go back to the last President that granted Amnesty to illegals….. And that was Ronald Reagan…your conservative ManGod… Then I only need to go back to George W. Bush to know he did Nothing… And you have the Gall along with all these other rightwing malcontent oddballs to Blame Obama after just 18 months…it’s getting a little old educating you on every issue on this site.. I really should pity you…

        • DaveH

          You really are mentally Challenged, aren’t you Liberal? It doesn’t matter what you think. If I was one of your fellow Liberals I would try to get you shut up, because you are making them look bad. You are their worst enemy. Thank you for making my case.

    • http://aol wayne a

      amer lib,pirates?lol lets see lib,when bush left office unemployment was 6.4%,now under obama its over 10%! our deficit has tripled since obama took office.under obama’s watch we have the largest number of people unemployed than at any other time in our history,largest no. of foreclosers in our history,largest no. of business failures in our history,largest natural disaster in our history!experts says the the flow of illegals continues to increase because of the hope obama will give them amnesty and citizenship.you’re damn right i blame it on obama!!!!!!!!!!!

  • American Liberal

    Chuck..Massiah is what you jealous rightys call Obama..if President Obama can pull this country outta of the disaster the republicans put it in then Obama be a ” massiah”..

    • GlennAz

      Too bad you don’t know what you are talking about. It was the democrats who pushed thru the bill for almost anyone to buy a house not the republicans. The housing is the total reason we are in this condition today.

      • DaveH

        Add to that the loose monetary policies of the Federal Reserve.

        http://reason.org/news/show/randazzo-congressional-testimony

        • Claire

          Federal Reserve–Whenever I hear those words I think of JFK and how he was murdered when he tried to do something about the Fed. Strange, I will always wonder about the connection…

          • DaveH

            John made many enemies. Maybe he was too busy having affairs to realize how many toes he was stepping on. He did a lot of good things, but the Bay of Pigs fiasco was a very dark blight on his career:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion

          • Save America Susie

            Claire, I think Lincoln was trying to fight it too. Look what happened.

          • Claire

            Susie–Yes, I know. They both were murdered.

      • American Liberal

        Glenn… Do you understand what” DeRegulation” means?… Nowhere in the fair housing bill will you find anything that allowed banks and lenders the right or permission to give out loans they knew couldn’t be paid back…. Those mortage companys knew exactly what they were doing and it was ” fraud”.. They went out of they’re way to give loans they knew were bad…Barney Franks or anybody else you want to blame it on didn’t authorize fraud…. Deregulation meant nobody was looking at the books… Do you know who loves deregulating big business… That’s right.. Republicans.. And you can blame republicans for the gulf oil spill too….

        • DaveH

          For those who want to know the truth rather than American Liberal’s misinformation:
          http://reason.org/news/show/what-caused-the-meltdown-a-fin

        • DaveH

          Another example of American Liberal’s ignorance:
          Republicans deregulating Big Business.

          Big Corporations can afford to hire people dedicated to dealing with the anti-productive paperwork hoops that Government sets up. It’s the Small Companies that can’t afford to comply with the myriad regulations. Government hobbles Big Corporations’ smaller competitors with those regulations. Big Corporations love that.
          So, in effect, the Democrats are promoting Big Corporations with their regulations, while the Republicans are promoting Small Business when they attempt to deregulate.

        • DaveH

          And blaming the Republicans for the oil spill? You have stooped to new lows, Ignorant Liberal. BP is a Big Government suckup. Probably most of you can remember the many ads that BP has run on TV bragging how “Green” they are.

          http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/05/05/bp.lobbying/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+(RSS%3A+Top+Stories)

          • George E

            As I understand the situation, the root cause of the BP oil spill had nothing to do with a lack of regulation, but everything to do with the fact that the regulators were counting tax revenues from oil being produced rather than watching whether the existing regulations were being followed properly. They were given both responsibilities at some point in the past.

        • GlennAz

          Has the government not had control all these years of the banking industry with all their regulations. The truth of the matter is there is not one government program that I know of that they have ever run with efficiency. I can name a large number they they have run into the ground

          • Claire

            GlennAz–Agreed.

        • Rod the Other

          AMERICAN LIB…First off, I admire your consistancy….But the down side is that you are consistantly WRONG!

          Before we debate what DE-Regulate means, Do you know what the word REGULATE means in regard to the Governments function?
          Our Government is charged with the obligation of REGULATING COMMERCE BETWEEN STATES. What this means is that they are to “Promote and MAKE REGULAR” commerce between the states. NOT TO IMPOSE RESTRICTING LAWS THAT TAMP-DOWN ON THE FREE MARKET SYSTEM AND MAKE IT HARDER TO ENTER INTO BUSINESS BY INCREAISNG THE BARRIERS TO ENTRY!
          SECONDLY, banks and lending institution don’t need the right or permission of Government to loan any American citizen ANYTHING. They have the right to self-determine those whom they beleive to be “GOOD CREDIT RISKS”! And, if they want to be a successful company they will lend to those whom are good risks and NOT LOAN to those whom ARE NOT GOOD RISKS! In this case, the PROGRESSIVES in our Government brought more and more pressure to bare on these companies to make loans to the unworhty. Going so far as to extort them, by means of punishing them if they did not engage in lending to DEAD-BEATS! This got the PROGRESSIVES more voters and put the rest of us in risk, right along with the banks!
          Now if the banks knew what they were doing was fraud….What do you have to say about those NO DOCUMENT LOANS that they were forced to accept? Further more, what do you have to say about the borrowers that knowingly falsified their applications in order to obtain the loan? What responsibility do you place on these people….
          There was a time in this crounty were people didn’t even think about getting into a house unless they had a 20% downpayment (by the way, did you know that Barneys boy-friend worked at Fannie and was a major part of getting these practices established….and isn’t it also funny that Barney fags boyfriend worked at a place called FANNIE!)

          AMER LIB I really wish that by having these debates it would enlighten people as to the truth about what OUR Government has stopped doing on our behalf and now does TO US! But people like you will never see it, it don’t know why you refuse to acknowledge the truth, but you do and I see no reason to beleive that you ever will. Your MINDS are just to soaked in punch….What’s your favorite flavor purple barry!

    • http://aol wayne a

      AMER LIB,obama pull us out? hell he’s pulling us deeper and deeper into his mess!

      • American Liberal

        Wayne… The economy was in freefall before Obama took office… Are you trying to tell me Obama was elected because Bush did a great job.., Bush is the cause of this bad economy and he’s the cause for the massive layoffs… You guys can sit here and lie to yourselves allday long…you don’t blame the fireman for putting out the fire the arsonist started… Your not fooling anybody except yourself

        • angel-wanna-be

          Am Lib, Obambi, got in the White House due to the Soro’s NEVER ENDING money for a Campaign. That and Bambi’s ability to sh*t sling, BETTER than his opponent!__Lets face facts __WE CAN ALL WIN AN ELECTION WHEN SOMEONE ELSE FOOTS THE BILL!
          IT’S JUST LIKE SOCIALISM, IT’S ALL WELL AND GOOD, TIL YOU RUN OUT OF OTHER PEOPLES MONEY__M. THATCHER

          • Save America Susie

            Angel-Wanna-Be, Isn’t it interesting that the economy didn’t really seem too bad until just weeks before the ELECTION? Then suddenly there had to be a FIX? I never noticed it being that bad all those 8 years. Then Freddy and Fanny problems came along and all those home loans people were talked into buying they couldn’t afford.

            Top three recipients of Freddy and Fanny money?

            #1-DODD, #2–OBAMA, #3–KERRY….Mmmmmmm…

  • Robert

    like i said before that in 1938 checkoslovika germans flooded into that country and voted illegaly and allowed germany to roll in and take over the country. what do you think is happening now? we ar about to lose our country the same way. and the illegal 13,14 supposed addments will help secure our demise.

  • Linda Lee

    WE are all on the same side and if everyone would stop the nonsensical bickering and join hands we would have a chance in hell for defeating the New World Order. The conspiracy manipulates the media and thus people’s minds. If the T people would reach out to the LIBERAL people and understand that we want the same things. then the citizenry of this country TOGETHER would become a real force to be reckoned with. I am all for joining hands and pushing out the whole lot of them. CRIMINALS run the country now and we law-abiding citizens better wake up and get with the program before it is too late for all of us. REPUBLICONS and DEMOCRITES alike need to recognize the real enemy and that is NOT your neighbor!

  • GlennAz

    Here’s a thought to throw around. With the lowest intelligent people having the majority of children for the last 50 years is it any wonder why we are in the condition we are. The great welfare system of this country helped promote this to the fullest.

  • American Liberal

    Chuck… Who the hell is Soetoro ?

    • JC

      Barry Soetoro – Foreign exchange student attending school in California.
      Today he is known as Barack Obama and I’d have to check but I think he’s on his “third” soscial security number.
      The guy is a Fraud plain and simple.

  • American Liberal

    Glenn.. The lowest intelligent people having babies ..? And are you going to deny your a racist?..

    • DaveH

      You must be one of those. Discriminating against unintelligent people is racism now?

      • libertytrain

        I guess that means that IQ tests, SAT’s PSAT’s etc etc etc will now be considered racist and must go. Everyone gets into college unless middle class — can’t give grades out – discriminatory and every one is entitled to any job – hope I never really need brain surgery, or any surgery.

    • http://aol wayne a

      amer lib,are you trying to say blacks are the only ones on welfare!

      • American Liberal

        Wayne… You must be having another conversation with yourself again…. I never mentioned Blacks or welfare …. But not suprised your delusional

    • GlennAz

      No where did I mention race so you must be the racist because you seem to have designated some of the races yourself

      • JC

        When they get to the race card they’re beat Glenn.
        It’s all they’ve got.

  • Larry J. Russell

    I am a missionary in the Philippines. My first wife passed away in ’96. In 01, I married a widow with 3 children. I have since put one through college and the youngest through a private highschool and now he is in his 3rd year in University. Last year my wife’s and son’s visas expired. There is so much hassle and expense to have them renewed that I will be traveling back to the US without them. If they were illegal Mexican aliens they would be granted amnesty. Since they are not I must do the things the law requires and pay all the fees and expenses to petition them. I feel that I, a US citizen by birth, am being discriminated against.

    • American Liberal

      Larry… I’m not sure what’s going to happen yet with the immigration problem…I’d hope they find a way to get your family here together… I thought if you were married your wife would be granted citizenship?.. The children too…in anycase… Good luck to you and I hope your all together soon…it shouldn’t be this difficult for you and I’m sorry it is…

      • libertytrain

        “I’d hope they find a way to get your family here together… I thought if you were married your wife would be granted citizenship?.. The children too…in anycase…”

        American Liberal – the problem is that most people are totally clueless as to what legitimate, by the book people, have to go through. They have ideas like your “if you’re married” comment above but no, not correct – study it up some and learn what it’s really like.

  • chuck b

    amer lib

    you don’t even recognize your “messiah” that”s his adopted name and legal.

  • chuck b

    larry j russell

    why don’t you fly to mexico and hire a coyote and pray. i’m sure barry will grant you amnesty if he can sneak the bill thru.

  • American Liberal

    DaveH… Yes… Calling a Race of humanbeings ” the
    most unintelligent people” is as racist as racist gets… Which makes you one…your a clear example why this bill IS a racist bill….are you serious ? You just proved my point…

    • DaveH

      Why didn’t you use my “Reply” button? Are you trying to get far away from the comment that you criticized as “racist”, so that the people who don’t thoroughly read the comments can’t see that you are full of it? You are a nitwit, Liberal. Thanks for proving it.

    • DaveH

      By the way, Nitwit, Human Beings are a Species (Homo Sapiens) not a Race. People of different races are subgroups of the Homo Sapiens species.

      • American Liberal

        DaveH… Again… The article and GlennAz are refering to Mexican immigrants… And Glenn was calling them “the most unintelligent people having babies… That’s a racist comment… So thanks for making it easy to prove you wrong as well as ignorant to the subject of this conversation….unless you really aren’t sure who’s crossing the border in Arizona … Maybe you think it’s Sweds or Austrians crossing into Arizona… Maybe you should double up on your meds… And I replied to Glenn and not you because he made the comment.. You just added somemore stupidity to his… I’ve really given you an Internet beating today… Real easy

        • DaveH

          The only beating you’re doing, Liberal, is going to make you go blind. Then you’ll be Blind and Ignorant.

      • JeffH

        Am Lib, with all of the logic, credibility and weight you carry on this website you couldn’t beat an egg…after the continual beatings you are subjected to have at it and slap your own back…get ready for November when we’ll see all of you whine like a confused ewe staring at an empty trough.

    • http://aol wayne a

      well amer lib,here goes the race card again when you have no other answer!you need to read the bill before popping off!

  • American Liberal

    DaveH.. You must be under the impression that any Non English speaking people aren’t as intelligent.. Talk about a narrow view of the world and humanity…and this is why I keep saying this country can’t survive another rightwing government., I don’t know a better way to put it, but you people are just flatout evil…

    • DaveH

      Better people than you have tried to put words in my mouth, Ignorant American Liberal. Show me where I made any such comment.
      Thanks for proving to the readers that Liberals will use any underhanded tactics they can muster in an effort to win a debate.

      • DaveH

        It’s too late for your Rabies shot.

      • DaveH

        Yep. I’m senile and suffering from diaper rash. Still I make you look like a nitwit. Must be pretty embarrassing.

      • Rod the Other

        DAVEH…
        I’m sure you are not shocked by what AMER LIB stated…This is what the left does…..!
        They don’t read what was written, or listen to what was said….They “INTERPRET” their perspetion of what they understand others to beleive….It is the same thing they do with the Constitution…..They “INTERPRET” it with their sensabilities.
        With them, consequences DO NOT MATTER, it is the intent behind it that matters.

        • Rod the Other

          uh…That word should read PERCEPTION….Sorry

    • http://aol wayne a

      amer lib,here you go making stuff up like you done obama’s ratings.davidh never said that!!!!!!

  • Félix µ. Valbuena Sr.

    I would like to ask Mr. Wood the following questions.
    1. Did his ancestors have passports and visas to come to America?
    2. Were his ancestors illegal in America.?
    3. What did the invaders do to the native Americans.?
    4.Does he think that laws , wall and military force will solve the problem? He is wrong.
    5. He needs to wake up and realize that the world is becoming a small place and in the near future America will be a community of nations. People like Mr. Wood are just trying to delay the process.
    The illegal immigration problem of this country will not be resolved until all people south of the border enjoy the same opportunities to work, have access to health and educational services and live in a save environment.

    • American Liberal

      Felix… Very good questions… I doubt you’ll get an answer… These people don’t answer question… This site is only about bringing out more hate … These people believe anybody non English speaking or non white are lesser humanbeings…

      • DaveH

        You are the hater, American Liberal. You prove it with almost every comment. Instead of factual comments, you employ name-calling, ridicule, and fabricated facts. Your venom is clearly visable. You may be able to fool your fellow zealots, but that is all.

      • libertytrain

        American Liberal. Your comment makes no sense. The fellow’s questions – particularly the first was not apropos for this time and place.

    • DaveH

      Then you believe, Felix, that the Mexican citizens should change Mexican politics so they can have those things? They sure don’t now. That’s why they try so hard to come here for the good life.
      http://www.heritage.org/index/Country/Mexico
      Unfortunately, the Liberal answer to that problem is to make the US more like Mexico, so there won’t be any reason to leave Mexico.

    • JeffH

      Viva la Raza!…NOT!

    • http://aol wayne a

      felix bull s@#$! its never going to happen.first if you go back farther enough there were no laws governing immigration so how could one be illegal? but yes my ancestors did come here legally!as far as what immigrants done to the amer. indians,seems to me that mex once belonged to the myans and incas which was stolen by the spanish!the only way this is going to be solved is to send you and the rest of the illegal’s asses back across the borders and have armed troops there to stop you from coming back.almost forgot,as a illegal you don’t have rights to do nothing in this country!!!!!!!

    • George E

      Felix,

      We would love to have immigrants come here legally. However if that’s not possible, then maybe they should stay home and try to improve their countries to be more like America, if they really think that’s the way they want to live. We’ll even help in the effort when we can. But, we will no longer tolerate people coming here or staying here illegally, especially if they think they can partake in our social safety net programs free of charge, or change our culture to be something other than it is today.

    • Save America Susie

      Dear Felix…The issue is not LEGAL Immigration. America GLADLY WELCOMES those people–regardless of ethnicity–that come here LEGALLY. That is all we ask. Go through the proper channels. My Grandparents were LEGAL immigrants from Ireland in the early 1900′s. They came legally with PROPER PAPERS, which I still have. They would have NEVER thought of trying to “crash the gate” & breaks the laws of our county. They won’t let you into a rock concert with no ticket, so why should they let you into a country with no papers?–which is so much more important. All I am mostly concerned about is screening for criminals, and filing proper papers to get in. However, I do think the waiting time should be SHORTENED. We have good & dear Tanzanian African friends who patiently waited 10 YEARS before finally getting their citizenship. I think it should be only a few years like it was with Ellis island and other immigration points of entry. But why would people want to “cut in line” in front of those that waited so patiently & did it the right way? That’s just plain wrong.

    • Rod the Other

      FELIX..Comrade…I am sure MR. Wood can speak for himself, but I would like to respond to your email that is based in “RECONQUESTA”

      I would like to ask Mr. Wood the following questions.
      1. Did his ancestors have passports and visas to come to America?
      ……….This is an extremely ignorant and pointless question. There was NO Government to petition for either of these prior to this Country being concieved on this soil. And, when it was realized that unchecked immigration was become a detriment to the existance of a free America, checks were established to protect the American Dream for those that came and risked to help BUILD this country.

      2. Were his ancestors illegal in America.?
      ……Mr. Wood will have to answer this obviously incitefull question.

      3. What did the invaders do to the native Americans.?
      ……The settlers didn’t do anything worse than what the Mexicans and Spanish did to them. If fact. most of the settlers were looking to co-habitate the land. Most, 80-90% of the Native Americans were the victims of desease and had never seen the face of a settler. Desease traveled fast than people and the natives had no immunity. A VERY unlucky set of circumstances. And by the way, it’s not like the natives were innocent little angels…Some of the discourse was brought about by their assaulting settlers and the settlers responded in kind.

      4.Does he think that laws , wall and military force will solve the problem? He is wrong.
      ……If he does think this, he’s not wrong. We will kick Mexico’s butt just like we did before they sold us the South West. The only way the invasion can succeed is if they stay quite and keep trying to breed us out, like they are now….I bet you’re all for MECHA & RECONQUESTA …huh FELIX….Staying in the shadows is your only chance at success.

      5. He needs to wake up and realize that the world is becoming a small place and in the near future America will be a community of nations. People like Mr. Wood are just trying to delay the process.
      ……..You are right in stating that the world is becoming a smaller place. And this just underscores the need for Americans to defend what is theirs and to be proud of our sacrifices to become a FREE Nation, and our growth and maturity that continues today. I’m sure your socialist desires for a “community of nations” will never go away…It can only be driven from American soil and as long as there are people that believe in FREEDOM and see the U.S. CONSTITUTION as the road-map, America will always survive!

      The illegal immigration problem of this country will not be resolved until all people south of the border enjoy the same opportunities to work, have access to health and educational services and live in a save environment.
      …….This is, yet again, further proof of how the RACISTS in this debate are on your side of the fence FELIX! You seek the furtherment of your RACE, while most of us here seek the furtherment of freedom for ALL….NOT JUST OUR RACE!……By the way, why can’t Mexico create these things for it’s people…..OH YEAH, That’s right, Because they are SOCIALISTS. Socialists don’t care about the individual, they only care about the collective.

      che guevara would be proud of you FELIX…

      I’ve got a question for you…
      For how long can you take from the rich and give to the poor before all that you have is the poor?

    • JC

      Wrong. The USA is waking up and pulling back from your “Globalist One World Government”. The USA is a sovereign nation with sovereign laws.
      One of which is the right to property. And I have no intention of supporting 20 million illegals who do not produce enough to support themsleves any more that I would give an alcoholic a bottle of whisky.
      My property is mine to dispose of as I see fit, not to be taken by force and thrown into an endless cycle of “so-called” charity.
      Am I selfish? Well let’s ask any of the 40 or so kids my wife and I put through school every year in Peru. I would do more here at home but most of the money gets wasted.

  • http://gmail i41

    c f, or chicken fuzz, you just show hope damn dumb you liberals are again. Illegals do get welfare and free health care and many other “American Taxpayer funded benefits”. I see you and your socialist nimrods, must have finally been able to put down your Sarah Palin posters, or else your punky attitude every day, is because you ruined the only poster you both have left, or your nappy is over its weight limit. Knowing of your sick procivity, there is a new full sized Sarah blow up doll to be used at the National Socialist Democrat Party fund raiser.Hope you and your buds don’t spend all of your allowances at one time and over stimulate you girly boy systems. All of us would miss you squirrels!

  • American Liberal

    Chuck… And calling our president Barry makes it clear that your hate isn’t about the economy, terrorism, immigration, bailouts… You hate the man… Period… It has zero to do with any policys … Nothing… It’s just blind rage and hate… Of course with a whitewash of a ” Christian view”..I have more respect for people like Glenn that just comeout and admitt they’re racist… The rest of you trying to condone it with fake policy issues are just pitiful excuses for humanity… You hate who president Obama is not his policys…hell, you never even gave him a chance at policy before your personal attacks on him started…like the birther nonsense and all the other judgements you’ve piled on this very good and compassionate president…

    • DaveH

      You are reaching new lows with your comments, Am Lib. What’s the matter? Are you getting frustrated that intelligent people can see through your manipulative tactics and fabricated facts?

    • http://aol wayne a

      amer lib,how can anyone not hate someone who is destroying our country!

    • kate8

      What? Barry is his legal name, AL. The other legal name. His family called him Barry. Does that make them racist?

      • American Liberal

        Kate8…. Ohhh , that explains it… Your related to our president.. That’s why you’re on a first name basis …

        • Rod the Other

          THERE THERE AMER LIB….I’m sure that Obama being such a failure and the fact that you have invest so much of yourself into loving your messiah makes for more than a little tenderness around your boo boos. It won’t be long until he’s out of office and other than history recording him a worse failure than Carter, we will be able to put this whole thing behind us, once we have paid off the debt he will leave us in…..I figure by year 2112 we’ll have seen the worst of his damaging administration pass.

  • annie

    why argue over the illegal aliens—they do not belong here–so see that they are deported–no questions ask–they are breaking the law.what is it about this that people do not understand–get them back across the Border and take your 14 kids with them–no matter where they were born–they are yours,take care of them in mexico.
    Don’t ever come here if you can not speak English. and this goes for every one–If you do not like it here–leave–do not expect us to change our way of living to suit you.Love it or Leave it.

    • Rod the Other

      ANNIE….
      I agree with your post, but something tells me that you may not quite understand what the motivations of these people are.
      Please refer to this link.
      http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

  • SiliconDoc

    This part of Chip’s article makes the clear point to me once again that our government has gone I N S A N E.
    ” .. U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, vowing to use the full resources of his department to get the Arizona law declared unconstitutional—while at the very same time admitting, in sworn testimony before Congress, that he hasn’t even read the law! ”

    What I’ve noticed in my few years since the Lewinsky Scandal, is my former impression that our government used common sense and sanity and acted upon reality and the therefore expected results.
    When I listened to the government speaking, or read about the laws and reasons behind them, things were solid, and they reinforced my understandings of reaons for the rule of law and truth, justice, and the American way.
    Not so anymore.
    What I perceive now is a constant attention to “emotional reactions that might be forthcoming” from the citizens or activist groups or the news media when our government speaks or makes decisions or laws, and that of course has currently spread to the entire world, in a touchy-feely Obama the queen of queefing overseas. A sort of estrogen doused word fantasy intra-fraternity detachment fued fueled with wordy lies and not a scant bit of truth or common sense visible.
    Forget the truth, history, common sense, reality, nor anything else I was used to and certainly aware of as a citizen of the USA.
    Now it’s a sort of cringing shame coupled with anger at the insanity and corruption of it all, as well as plenty of suspicion and distrust, and a sense of bewilderment in trying to figure out what the heck sustains such craziness – plotted dishonesty or simple stupidity. I conclude with hands thrown up, it is some of both, as well as fear, self interest, and playing games for partisan kicks.
    In any case, the lies have piled up on me now, the shock is gone, and the dull desire to disbelieve what I’ve found has set in.
    Yes, a certain danger, the dull desire to disbelieve what I’ve discovered, and hope that somehow I am sorely mistaken or have missed something.
    The question “How could it actually be happening?” is ever present.
    Now, the press conferences and news stories yield transparent lies and untruths, massive hypocrisies, endless spins, and flat out crimes exposed and left untouched.
    I suspect the third world, the USSR, China, India, Europe, and much of the rest of the world is infinitely more used to such a thing.
    I certainly see it as a bad omen for things to come here.

    • George E

      SiliconDoc,

      I’m in agreement with you. I hope it’s just that I’m getting older and less tolerant of change, but I fear it’s really what it appears to be; ie, an out-of-control government working its will on us with socialist bureaucrats running things. I feel like we’re on a snowboard going down a very steep hill accelerating at an ever faster rate and we can’t find the brake, or worse yet, there is no brake.

  • Jackie Shubin

    What is happening at our Southern border is nothing short of a violent invasion by thieves who are stealing the fruits of American labor and American resources. If I were President I would demand that the Mexican government stop the invasion or I would ask Congress for a declaration of war on Mexico. Mexico is a resource rich country, but its CORRUPT feudal economic system prevents development that would raise the living standard of the majority of its citizens thus removing the incentive for (illegal) Northward migration. An American takeover of Mexico would benefit both our economies.

    • Claire

      Declaration of war? That’s all we need.

  • American Liberal

    Silicone..I can tell by reading you post that your a gullible person that believes anything you can find to read on rightwing hate sites…your telling me Chips nonsense has swayed you?..

    • DaveH

      Do you think your fabricated nonsense is going to sway intelligent people, Am Lib? You need to go to a Liberal site, where the people are ignorant and would buy into your childish manipulation and misinformation.

    • http://aol wayne a

      amer lib,have you noticed that no one else agrees with anything you say? can’t you take a hint!

    • Derek

      The liberal mind and it’s pathologies are something to be hold. I’ve never heard more hate spewing from somone as I have from liberals whining about someone else supposedly being hateful.

      I truly believe the liberal mind is one of immaturity and lacks the abilty to grasp the subtleties and nuances of politics and social issues and alway resorts to name calling and personal attacks as a substitute for reasoned and thoughtful comment. The liberal mind for the most part is intellectualy bankcrupt and is incapable anything more than a very superficial, inverted logic.

      Add to that the fact that liberals are so driven by thier emotions, primarily, jealousy and class envy and often laziness (that’s the reson they don’t like capitalism, it reward the hardworking and ambitious) and you’ve got the recipe for some very dangerous ideas that they themsleves don’t have the remotest clue on how disastorous they are.

      The thing they will expend a gtreat deal of energy on however, is use thier skills at obfuscation and distortion to confuse confusion and and twist the facts to make these very bad ideas reasonable to the poor unsuspecting soul who is too busy making a living to really get to the bottom of things.

  • American Liberal

    Jackie wants to ” invade ” Mexico… Lol… Amazing…didn’t get enough of that whith Bushie huh…. Maybe you should claim they were involved in 9/11 or have Wmds or Al Qaeda is there…I’m positive most the people on this site will agree with you…

    • Jeep

      First, I’m not sure who “Bushie” is…but, Mexico may not have WMD’s (unlike Iraq that did have WMD’s). Maybe you have not heard that Al Qaeda is very active in Central and South America. Sure, let’s just keep the border “open”. In fact, maybe we should set up way stations through the desert to provide shade and fresh water…

      • GlennAz

        Hate to tell you this but there are groups of people that already set up water stations for them

  • American Liberal

    Maybe one of you can point me to an article where Eric Holder says he will turnover Arizonas immigration law… I went to Fox news story on the Holder and all I saw was ” he was critical” but hadn’t read the law yet so he hadn’t decided if it was constitutional… Nowhere did I see him say he was going to turn it over… You know why?.. He can’t… The law would have to be found unconstitutional in court….again… Delusion on the right..

    • DaveH

      Eric Holder in his own words, not those altered by a Liberal:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUcxG6j0Jks

    • Jeep

      Holder says that the Justice Department is “considering all options,” including a lawsuit claiming that the Arizona law pre-empts federal powers or is a violation of federal civil rights statutes. Look it up.

      But, AL, poor little AL…I thought you were smarter than this. I mean really! Defending the indefensible, now that’s a laugh. Can you seriously stand up for the man after he sat in front of congress and said (and I paraphrase) uhhh, I don’t know what’s in it, but I don’t like it! Ugh! Well, Holder sounds just like my kids when it came to broccoli…and, I made them it anyway!

    • http://aol wayne a

      amer lib,do you read a newspaper or watch tv occasionally? what holder said was all over the news and in our newspaper,just as he said!

  • chuck b

    amer lib

    you are quick with the words hate and rage. it seems to me you are the one that resorts to the name calling.

    if you feel barry is doing such a good job, fine!! what i see is entirely different, you don’t look at what this guy has done, only what you think he’s doing.
    the demo’s have been in power for the last 5 1/2 years in congress, barry has been in the senate 3 yrs and president 1 1/2yrs, what has the man done that you are so proud of?? probably the healthcare bill, something that is detrimental to the health of the country and the majority of the people are against. the stimulus bill has been disastraus, he has indebted the country more than any pres in history. he has refused to honor our flag and the country. i can go on, but, thats for starts. don’t start crying about it’s bushs fault, congress controls the purse strings.
    lets take this current problem with the spill! are you proud of the way he handled this crisis?? he hasn’t a clue on what to do or say and if bush was pres at this point, you communist types would be calling for his head and you know it, impeachment hearings would be going on.
    barry is the most inept president this country ever elected. he has no experience in other than organizing people in the ghetto’s and selling drugs.
    you call me a racist, under these circumstances i will have to agree.

  • Jackie Shubin

    Obama has never run anything other than his mouth.

    • George E

      That’s a good one. Sadly, it’s closer to the truth than we might comfortably like. This guy is supposed to be our leader right now, but so far I’ve seen very little real leadership capability from him. Apparently, he didn’t learn how to lead a project team when he was a community organizer. However, he does appear to have reading speeches and partying down pretty well, I think.

  • http://gmail i41

    felix, to people south of the border, instead of getting up here, stay down there and clean up the garabage dump down there where you should be! My relatives over the many years ago, came here they took care of their families and themselves, by providing shelter, feeding their children and educating them. All of my great-great-grandfathers learn to speak only English, their kids only spoke English at home and no native language was allowed, unless it was off colored. The reason people are against illegals here is you and your off spring will not learn to speak English. Illegals are crimmals because you do not obey and brerak a lot of our laws. Fences and military will slow illegals down and if it still will not ceasethe measure will just keep increasing until enough force is able to stop the problem. As is said in mechanics lingo, get a bigger BFH, “bigger f—ing hammer”. If Caldron and his drug kings have a dilike for the attitude tough s–t! My ancestors came here and helped create the USA, that illegals are trying to suck it dru by using and abusing our caring country. As for the indians, thety killed each other a took over many little minority bands. They got tamed down because they were tecknological inferior. Just like Vikings kicked ass until everyone else vame up to speed and mother nature and global cooling slowed them down. Indians loved the socialist every one get every thing from every one else, with a head nut and his council making the decisions. Our hope and change Prez and his dems love that theory styled government. Your pissing and whining about south of the border, do you want the USA to come down there and take you over after 2012, just let Onumnut, know you are looking for some real American, with our Constitution in hand to drop on in that sewage pit down there. First thing to go is Spanish, next the flag, with fines of it being displayed, third, automitic death sentences on drug dealers, all the way to king pins like China did in their cleaning up heiron use. Turn all government owned businesses back to private ownership, and rapidly devolope and use the natural resourses.

  • LarryM

    For those that are pro immigration I ask you one question. If you are so concerned with the rights of the illegals in this country then why aren’t you asking everyone from every nation in the world to come here. Think about that for a minute!! You are so concerned about all the others that you have forgotten your own children. Here in the US we take in more immigrants than the rest of the world combined. Do we have room for more, maybe but over a course of time. They also must do as immigrants of the past and swear allegance to this nation, learn the language and follow the laws. Those that are here illegally have already broken the law and must go home and get in line like all the others before them have done. This is not rocket science!!!!

  • American Liberal

    DaveH…. Read GlennAz post at 2:15 pm… I’m sorry you’re so ignorant…but calling a race of people unintelligent is racist… As you are…you replied to my answer to Glenn.. Then I replied to you… Seek help..

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

      Mexico has a very low level of education. If AZ stayed Mexican and never became part of the United States Mexicans would be trying to go farther north as it would be no different than what Mexico is today. With open borders we are taking on the responsibily of bringing people to a level they have never achieved and millions of them will never achieve. It is not possible to fix that many people and will only bring America down. The left thinks the Fed has a never ending supply of money to give away and they can just keep sucking off the system forever.

      • chuck b

        bruce d

        good thinking. most people haven’t figured that out yet.

    • Derek

      The liberal mind and it’s pathologies are something to be hold. I’ve never heard more hate spewing from somone as I have from liberals whining about someone else supposedly being hateful.

      I truly believe the liberal mind is one of immaturity and lacks the abilty to grasp the subtleties and nuances of politics and social issues and alway resorts to name calling and personal attacks as a substitute for reasoned and thoughtful comment. The liberal mind for the most part is intellectualy bankcrupt and is incapable anything more than a very superficial, inverted logic.

      Add to that the fact that liberals are so driven by thier emotions, primarily, jealousy and class envy and often laziness (that’s the reason they don’t like capitalism, it reward the hardworking and ambitious) and you’ve got the recipe for some very dangerous ideas that they themsleves don’t have the remotest clue on how disastorous they are.

      The thing they will expend a gtreat deal of energy on however, is use thier skills at obfuscation and distortion to confuse confusion and and twist the facts to make these very bad ideas reasonable to the poor unsuspecting soul who is too busy making a living to really get to the bottom of things.

    • DaveH

      Am Lib,
      If I thought you had any brains at all, I might be offended. I’m not.

    • Cindy

      Americunt liberal
      There’s talk on here that you’re a woman. Are you? Personally I think you’re too ignorant to be a woman, but then I started thinking about Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer and the ever so classless Michelle Obama, and now I’m thinking you might be one of them incarnate. Are you?

      • Claire

        Good grief.

      • Claire

        Is this a new way to spell American? For shame.

    • GlennAz

      Too bad you can’t read as no where did I mention any race of people. So you are probably one of them I was talking about

  • David J. Sanchez

    Repeal of the 14th Amendment is necessary in order to restore sanity to the Nation’s immigration laws which allows those from other countries to just cross the border and when they are ready to come to term (and the hospital’s duty as a medical health facility–forces them to take all patients) deliver the baby free of charge, as in most cases the people doing it are poor, and the child is now automatically a citizen of the United States. But the real main issue here is that either one is here legally or illegally. We are a nation of immigrants, but we are a nation of legal immigrants which means an orderly process is involved or every person on this planet would totally overwhelm this ids exactly what is happening now under this latest Administration in Washington D.C. And then they have the audacity to condemn Arizona for trying to do the job that the Federal government won’t do, and having the El Presidente of Mexico tell us that we are barbarians even though Mexico’s laws are much more severe than the United State’s laws are in dealing with this very same issue. Wake up America!

  • Robert

    Dave you can not wake the legaly dead mind

  • Derek

    Isn’t the liberal mind someti=hing to behold in tbey way it ignores facts and eveidence that is so glaring.

  • mehoward

    To all of you who think you have evolved from a monkey, I’ve have really been looking at you and I really see the resembalace.
    Tell me do you ever get a deep craving for a banana? Meh Pensacola,fl.

    • Tarzan&Cheetah

      mehoward;
      metarzan. Cheetah really likes bananas but I likum manly food, like meat and potatoes. On a serious note, what the hell are you trying to tell us in your post? Are you trying to tell me I look like my chimpanzee?

  • ABinGA

    JeffH- I’m glad you posted about the 13th and 14th and the Reconstruction period even though there are some who will still not believe fact. I guess American Liberal took Dave’s place since the question from Bob Livingston.

    • http://aol wayne a

      abinga,lets hope amer lib is done for awhile! every comment site i go to that has anything to do with obama or immigration theres amer lib and her same old lies.

      • JeffH

        It’s the weekend, won’t be back until Monday…

  • ABinGA

    Save America Susie-I agree with your post “PS Bring jobs back to America”. We’re still losing them Mexica among other countries. I’m in general aviation manufacturing. Our Georgia facility (home base is in Withita) was informed just before Christmas we were shutting down our operations over the next two years and moving them to Mexico. Nice Christmas present, huh? Move has started. Obama talks about job creation but nothing is done to keep jobs from leaving this country. Repeal NAFTA or raise the import taxes so high our companies will not make more of a profit by moving. I also wonder how much business this company will lose due to the quality issues. They’re already having trouble finding people down there able to do the jobs. To high tech. but I guess with what they them they can afford the high scrap rate. Anyway, I got that off my chest.

    • GlennAz

      I know the quality as when the garage door opener boards production was sent to mexico we had a 50 percent failure rate and that was a simple board compared to what you are talking about

    • Save America Susie

      Thanks for your comment ABinGA…Sorry about your loss of jobs there. The problem is, people who care about this country deep in their souls WILL NOT send manufacturing to another country. I feel so strongly about this, that it almost feels akin to treason to do so–because we are killing our country in greed just for more money! It’s betrayal! Come back people! Make it in AMERICA!

  • ABinGA

    Mexica=Mexico Sorry ’bout that.

  • ABinGA

    You are correct wayne a–also think he/she posts under different names. I’ve seen others post that before and I tend to agree.

  • Raggs

    Lets clap our hands for the so-called chief.
    or not! I find obama a disgracefull individual and not at all worthy of a “title” of an American leader much less the leader of anything other than his own ego.. He is a poor sick man and I will not ever find him in the my pray’s.

  • http://gmail i41

    ABinGA, in the 80′s Cummins started getting their injectors from Mexico, at an American company that made injectors. The cost was half of American made because of lack of osha enforced regulations and of course labor. But the failure rate was over 75% verus a 2% on Mexican imported compared to American made. The labor cost to correct failures, was not worth the cheap price, we only used the parts for 3 months. Problem was the mexicans, did not understand the close tolerances needed on seating of the fine parts. I bet in a year or two if the planes or parts get used and a deadly failure happens, there goes the plant and all jobs. Aircraft is pretty unforgiving and does not allow for many screw ups. I would guess more companies will close doors as the socialist health care bill takes effect, as well as more tryanical government regulations are inforced by the IRS agents and the agency wonks.

  • ABinGA

    i41-Agreed.

  • Old Monkey

    Just wondering if anyone as reallye read the 14th Ammendment, the thought of its authors, the rigorious deate, and the Supreme’s only decision of mention.

    American Indians were not considered citizens since their alligence was to another nation. (To this day children of foreign diplomats born in US hospitals are not considered citizens)

    Children born to LEGAL residents including H1-anything are citizens by birthright: >Wang Ark Kims US<

  • ABinGA

    See ya’ll tomorrow.

  • Clarice Ryan

    There is a very simple solution to the anchor babies and their parents plus families. The baby, since it is born here in America, is a citizen. But the parents and rest of the family are not. Therefore, the baby stays here and the rest of them go back to Mexico including the mother. There are many compentant deserving couples here in America who would be delghted to adopt an abandoned baby. This situation would make every pregnant woman about to deliver to think twice about coming across the border to deliver.

    • Jeep

      The only problem with that is that our laws allow the newborn to become a “sponsor” for the illegal parents and family. Of course, there would have to be a change in the law to accomodate this fact…good luck getting that done with this congress.

  • DaveH

    Liberals are constantly whining about the Big Bad Corporations and why we need more Government Regulations to control them. This is the result of those Regulations. The Big Corporations can afford to hire paper-shufflers and lawyers to comply. The Small Corporations can’t. Ever wonder why the Big Corporations like Big Government? What better way is there to eliminate their smaller competitors?
    http://healthfreedoms.org/2010/06/01/local-farmers-new-safety-regs-will-kill-us/

  • DaveH

    The Liberals demand the right to spew their childish, hateful comments. But here is how Liberals really think of free speech. It only applys to them:
    http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/liberal-fcc-talk-radion/2010/06/02/id/360849?s=al&promo_code=A03B-1

  • MIRIAM

    WELL, AMERICANS

    WHAT DO YOU EXPECT….WE HAVE A PRESIDENT THAT REFUSES TO PRODUCE PROOF OF HIS LIVE BIRTH…ALSO I BELIEVE WE NEED TO ADOPT MEXICO’S RULES ON IMMIGRATION IF YOU COME TO MEXICO YOU MUST BE SELF SUPPORTING DO NOT BE A BURDEN ON THE COUNTRY HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE ETC ETC

  • John Galt

    Someone named Matt said
    “No human being is illegal, no matter how much rascism there is against them. The United States quota laws need changing, anyone should be able to be any where they please, as long as they pay their fair share of taxes.”
    Could we then deport anyone who is found to not have paid any taxes each year? That would make it much easier to accept a larger number of responsible immigrants, by the elimination of the vast majority of irresponsible native born citizens who could then go and live in one of the Socialist countries they view so much more favorably than the one in which they were born.

    • Jeep

      Wait a second! That brings a thought to mind John…sooo, if the administration manages to get through amnesty, then we would be forced to lock ‘em all up for tax evasion. Cool…I like that…

      • JC

        And it would give all those FEMA Camps a purpose.

    • George E

      John,

      I don’t have a lot of trouble with people, including immigrants, coming and going as they please, so long as they are lawful in the process. I do have a lot of problem giving “illegal” immigrants US citizenship along with the rights and privileges that go with citizenship, including the right to vote in this country. That is something we should NEVER do. If deportation is deemed unacceptable when we catch illegal immigrants, then we should either incarcerate them for breaking our laws or provide them with a visa so they can legally live and work here so long as they abide by our laws and pay their taxes. Also, they should be severely restricted as to how much of our social safety net programs they can participate in while here. If they don’t like these conditions, then they are always free to return to their home country.

  • Sandra

    Ted Nugent, rock star, avid bow hunter, and CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ACTIVIST from Michigan , was being interviewed by a liberal journalist, an animal rights activist. The discussion came around to deer hunting.
    The journalist asked, ‘What do you think is the last thought in the head of a deer before you shoot him? Is it, ‘Are you my friend?’ or is it ‘Are you the one who killed my brother?
    Nugent replied, ‘Deer aren’t capable of that kind of thinking. All they care about is, what am I going to eat next, who am I going to screw next, and can I run fast enough to get away. They are very much like the Members in Congress.’

    The interview ended.

    • http://none Alex

      Ted Nugent is an imbecile and should in no way be considered a “rock star”. In the music world, Ted Nugent is a joke, a big laugh…I mean , “Cat Scratch Fever”…..really?

      • TIME

        Alex,
        Your Darwin Award is showing again!

        At least Ted worked hard for his money and made something of himself. Its obvious your under 12 years of age. So try growing up some then have an idea. For now Go out side and play with other kids your age.

      • JeffH

        Alex…challange Ted to a face to face…you’d end up with more than one version of “cat scratch fever”…you’d become a victim of the “spirit of the wild”!

      • JC

        He makes a lot more sense and I’ll bet a lot more money than you do.
        Oh that’s right…you hate capitalist running dogs don’t you?

      • George E

        Alex,

        Nugent may have personal credibility problems with you. However, what do you think about what he said? Would you feel the same if Republicans controlled both houses of Congress?

      • JeffH

        …fortunately Alex, that is YOUR opinion based on Your beliefs…Isn’t America still a great country where we still have the right to express our opinions? I seem to recall that Obama might have a problem with free speech and would like to have tighter control over it. How would you feel then?

    • angel-wanna-be

      Sandra, If that’s true, Boy did Nuge ever hit the nail on the head with that one!__Go Nuge!

  • Anthony

    Boy, there’s a lot of slanted arguments from both sides… and then there’s a few who do understand the nature of what’s really going on. But, only a few.

    The real issue here, is whether the Country should be “run from the top down” or, is it really true that the 1st ever (and only) Constitutional Convention [1787] finally got it right, and as Obama has publicly stated – is the Constitution “now in the way” of what the delegates truly intended and that was for the Federal Government’s powers to specifically LIMITED (?) You tell me.

    Folks – I wish everyone would QUIT with these idiotic Left/Right (Liberal/Conservative) arguments. Because, there is NO SUCH THING – it’s a bold-faced lie full of sophistry.

    THE REAL DISCUSSION – is based on whether you believe in the writings of Alexander Hamilton (who preferred a Central Bank, Mercantilism /i.e.- Corporatism, etc) or do you side with Thomas Jefferson who preferred that the “States” were sovereign over the Federal Government – which is the opposite of Hamilton.

    Hamilton preferred that the Supreme Court – go back and read what John Marshall did to this Country as Chief Justice – Hamilton preferred that the Court be the bottom line and to heck with the State Congresses. In his view the States are NOT sovereign and anything they will should be considered NULL AND VOID – that’s a Marshall edict.

    In the end – one could say that Hamilton was a Nationalist
    At the aposite – Jefferson was for State’s Rights
    Jefferson was very glad when the 10th Amendment was included
    (Have any of you read the 10th Amendment ? Maybe you should memorize it)

    The Courts have been using a malformed “opinion” of the General Welfare Clause (which is in the Constitution) to up-end everything the Founders debated for in that Constitutional Convention. Hamilton suckered the Convention into leaving that part in, when it should have been either re-phrased or taken out completely.

    THIS IS THE REAL DEBATE.. NOT that crap about Liberals this, or Liberals that…..

    You either side with the Fascistic Hamiltonian concepts
    Or, you side with the Jeffersonians who really did fight for the People’s Rights over the Government.

    Look at it this way – Why fight a Revolutionary War, only to have politicians turn around and stick us with what they fled from in England… which was a Mercantilism run Country … Well?

    Hamilton wrote very Jeffersonian in the Federalist Papers
    He didn’t really mean any of it, other than those parts that insinuate power from the top down. Turning us into slaves of the state.
    You should go and read his writings while he was Secretary of the Treasury under George Washington…. THAT’s where you will find the wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    THEN – read Jefferson’s interpretation of the Constitution and decide if you prefer his type of USA or Hamilton’s snooty superioristic sneer from the money’d elite…. YOUR CHOICE

    Oh, one other thing – Alexander Hamilton “was” an Agent for the European Rothschild Banking Clan. Yes, yes, I know he rose from the East Indies Trading Company…. still, who do you think owned that(?)

    Hamilton was the snake… and the names of those who favored his perversion of the Constitution are exactly who the history books call GREAT MEN these days…. John Adams, John Marshall, FDR, Woodrow Wilson…. It goes on and on…

    Forget today’s common rhetoric and go read where “they” really vase their whole discussion. It rises from that Constitutional Convention, which Hamilton LOST. Jefferson won the day at that Convention… but Hamilton has been using the Courts ever since to reverse what Jefferson won.

    It dam(n) sure ain’t about Left or Right… THAT MUCH you can bet on!

    • Anthony

      DOH – that came out not-quite-right, didn’t it….

      I wrote: “as Obama said is the Constitution “now in the way” of what the delegates truly intended

      My bad……

      Obama did say out loud after bein gsworn in – that the Consitution was in the way… it was in his way and in the way of his Handlers – the money’d elite inside Bilderberg, the Trilateral Comission and the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations), all extensions of the Rothschild Central Bank Cartel.

      The Delegates specifically wrote into the Constitution all sorts of stop-gaps which were totally designed to LIMIT Federal Power, NOT extend it … which would turn the Government into the Oppressor.
      ——————————–
      It should read that the Delegates at the Consitutional Convention MEANT for the Consitution to LIMIT Federal Power, and that States Rights were sovereign above the Federal Government.

      Obama, Bush 2, Clinton, Bush 1 (as VP, too) Carter, Nixon, certainly LBJ, JFK (they thought), Eisenhower…. it goes on and on.

      Each of the above were a Member of the CFR – all of them.

      At no time in the last 100 years did we actually have an instance where the CFR was not actually President, or when the President was “surrounded by” members of the CFR.

      Reagan was NOT a Member… but Rumsfeld, Cheney, and BUSH 1, were all in on it. NOW, go back and listen to many of the speeches by Reagan while he was POTUS.. and think back on what you’ve just read.

      John F Kennedy – was completely affected by his PT109 events in WWII, which the CFR overlooked and JFK then insituted EXECUTIVE ORDER 11110

      Yes, yes…. I know this thread is about illegal aliens – yet isn’t this really about MONEY ? Don’t the Corporatocracy’s want CHEAP LABOR ?? Come on(?) Get with the Program here…..

      ALL OF IT really does go back to the beginning at that Convention, because, without it having been won by the Jeffersonians…. about 150 years ago, we would have already had a One World Government – a New World Order.

      OUR CONSTITUTION HAS BEEN IN THE WAY and it should never stop being so.

      Doens’t it boggle your mind, that many of our Founding Fathers also owned SLAVES? It’s time to stop omitting facts simply because they don’t suit you…. all of this is connected and it has always been the money’d elite (who owned slaves, etc) who are constantly working to make the People as slaves to Money.

      Jefferson preferred to see Money be the puppet of all humanity, not just some!

      • Jackie Shubin

        Anthony: You are right on….the last decent President America had was Andy Jackson who paid off the national debt and defeated Henry Clay’s plans for a central bank which would eventually enslave Americans to fiat money.

        • George E

          On balance, Jackson may be judged to be a good President. However, I definitely don’t like the way he treated the American Indians.

          • Claire

            George E– I agree with you, Andrew Jackson was cruel.

          • JC

            The country was still devloping and there were barborous acts on all sides. AJ was still the president who tried to keep America “American” and not a colony to be picked clean by the International Bankers.

        • George E

          Good point, JC. It’s easy to get fixated on one attribute or another and not see the bigger picture. Thanks for the input.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

    Slavery was an accepted practive from the beginning of time to those who were not slaves. It is even a part of the Old Testament. Jefferson brought new light to the issue of slavery as he opening questioned its integrety. He refused to break up the families of slaves and they became a burden that had to be fed and taken care of. Jefferson had very little money. His estate was negrected while he was President and went into debt. As far as the CFR and the progressive movement it has always been political correct not to acknowledge any effort to undermind America. People have been labeled for doing that sense the McCarthy era. Give Glen Beck credit along with Fox News for the exposure that is givi

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

      The open exposure of the progressive movement by Beck is giving people the courage to go up against political correct mind control that has been underminding America. The liberals are also becoming openly brazen in their hatred for America’s ‘founders’ and principles. Open borders play a big part in underminding America. If you can bring enough poor people into the country who will drain American resourses and who will eventually vote for the redistribution of wealth, which stagnates all societies that embrace it, Obama will have achieved his goal of transforming America.

  • Laura Schlegel

    To the best of my knowlege, the Fourteenth Amendment was passed by Congress in June 1866 and ratified by the states in 1868.

    Don’t we all want the same thing, Humane Comprehensive Immigration Reform? Give people who want to better their lives and contribute to society an efficent way to citizenship. This is a process and from my understanding, many are in the gray areas of this process…this is what we have to address. What about the illegals that are forced at gun point to be here by human traffickers? What about the illegals that are exploited by factory farm corporations whose products we blindly buy in our grocery stores?

    As far as distribution of wealth, it is one of the functions of our government to fairly collect tax revenue and to fairly distribute to our common good so there is upward mobility for all. The biggest drain and devastation to our economy with global ripple affects, is not illegals or welfare programs. It is those who’ve gotten rich profiteering, as they gambled away our economy and environment without paying their fair share in taxes.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

      50% of the people do not pay income taxes and the rich pay a huge portion of the income taxes so stop talking nonsense about the rich not paying taxes. On a 5 million dollar home you can pay 70,000 dollars a year in property taxes. You do not create money by dividing it up. You just reduce the amount of people willing to work hard for what they get. The constitution was meant to limit government power. It never gave them the power to take from one and give it to another. Taxes were meant to provide for the common need and never for an indiviuals need. Once socialism gets to a certain stage it breaks down, society stagnates, and then heads into a dwindling spiral.Even Howard Dean, a campion of socialism, admits there is a breaking point where incentive is lost when working people are overburdened with taxes.

      • Laura Schlegel

        Miilions of people are out of work, millions more are under employed, millions of homes have been lost and are underwater. CEOs and corporations w/personhood rights, are showing record benefit packages and profits as they lay off, out source, off shore invest, buy our reps., risk our livelyhood and environment, at all of our casualty. When the rich are getting richer and the middle class is struggling to survive, there’s a serious inbalance in economic opportunity…and it’s not do to laziness or immigration.

        Even flattened gray matter can connect these dots:)

        • JeffH

          According to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security….
          Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.

          • JC

            Not to mention about 17,000 actual terrorists have walked over that same border.

          • JeffH

            JC, according to the libs, only Mexicans cross the borders, which automatically make anybody against illegal immigration racists.
            Go figure, huh?

        • DaveH

          Yep, we should adopt Socialism and grow the Government even bigger. Then we will all partake equally of the economy like the North Koreans and the Cubans (well, except those in the Government).
          And damn those Rich Corporate owners who have the nerve to leave our country and go where they can make some money. They should stay here, pay exhorbitant taxes and wages, and learn how to be efficient from the Government. Maybe the Liberals can even help out (if they can quit whining long enough). I mean, with their superior intelligence and all, they could probably run some great companies which would give everything they earn to the poor.
          Please save us Obama. We want to be equal. We don’t care that it will be equally poor, just make us equal. We could all get together then, and have great fun doing whine-athons. Oh, how I wish I could be a Liberal and be blissful.

    • TIME

      Laura,
      You now have just been awarded the “Darwin Award” too.
      You have displayed time after time that your gray matter has been smooooothed out to a flat surface, and 100% empty.

      Kudos to you!

    • chuck b

      l schlegel

      no, we don’t all want your comprehensive immigration reform. this was tried once before and does not work, present day conditions confirm this.
      we have no choice than to head these people for the border and shut down immigration period. they have bankrupt calif. and other states are teetering. your messiah refuses to abide by the present day fed law and if this doesn’t happen we are heading for a worst depression than the one in 1930. i have posted this link for two days and if you want a comprehensive answer to your comment, take a few minutes and listen to this video. http://splodetv.com/video/immigration-gumballs

  • FreedomFighter

    The solution is simple:

    1. Enforce existing law.

    2. Put 10 to 12 thousand troops on the borders and slam them shut.

    3. Expulse the convicted criminals to where they come from.

    4. Take the 12 million or more illegals here, fine them, make them learn english and put them thru the immagration process. (simple version)

    FF

    • George E

      FF,

      I disagree with your last point. I’m afraid that if we give citizenship to the illegal immigrants who are already here, we’ll just incentivize more to come here illegally. The most I could agree with, if we determine deportation is not appropriate, is giving them a visa which will allow them to live here so long as they work, pay their taxes, and don’t commit any crimes. Giving them citizenship gives them the right to vote, and I definitely don’t think we should do that. They haven’t earned it.

    • Jeep

      FF, I think we are on the same side here…but, 1 and 4 are incompatable. Under existing law they are caught and sent home (short version). Ergo we cannot have a number 4 solution. Since in step 1 we sent them all packing (a very good idea, btw). LOL

  • http://gmail i41

    Laura, we already have humane immigration programs, if our wimpy muslim Prez, had any backbone, when he was talking to the Ahole from south of the border, he would of told the sawed off socialist, that for every illegal, we catch and return. USA get least a 1000 barrels of free oil, that is barrels, not gallons. That would cover the cost top balance what illegals put on the USA’s welfare system. Of course Omoron, being a socialist muslim it will never happen. Laura, if the mexicans want a better life. Then go to the leftist socialist organation called the UN and whine to the do nothing group of money wasters. But the liberal, feel good, socialist, democrats would have a meltdown. Anthony, there is a big area that democrats can be define by, they are all progressives, think government should control, and have its fingers in every aspect, of our lives and businesses. Also government is beleived to know what is best for everyone, and that there should not be any individuality but conformity. Everything must approved by an agency multi-degreed dip stick. Even when most have never worked at anything but as a government book reg reader. The book of regs, written by another over educated desk jockey in the beltway. Damn, no wonder liberal democrats love this plan, it is just like any socialist country dream land plan. Anthony, point out to us, where you disagree, that the progressive socialist democrats, just don’t get any more of a dream thrill for liberals than total government control.

  • JeffH

    These statistics have been verified, although some are several years old. This is one reason that Arizona just signed the new immigration bill and the “concealed weapons” law.

    Amazing Statistics below:

    According to the FBI and Department of Homeland Security….

    •Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops, but 29% are on welfare.

    •83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

    •75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.

    •40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally

    •29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons fill our state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually

    •53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

    •50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.

    •71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or “transport coyotes”.

    •63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens

    •380,000 plus “anchor babies” were born in the US to illegal alien parents in just one year.”

  • chuck b

    its my belief barry soetoro wants the borders open to allow these illegals to saturate our country in order to breakdown the conservative society. if you investigate his background, he appears to be a very racists person: “From Dreams of My Father”: ‘I ceased to advertise my mother’s race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.’

    “from Dreams of My Father” : ‘I found a solace in nursing a
    pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother’s race.’

    the people surrounding him are communists and they use him as a mouth piece to sway the mostly unconcerned liberal and minority classes.
    he will attempt to pass the comprehensive amnesty reform and congress may try to pass it like the hc bill. if they retain their majority after november you can bet it will pass and so will america.

    • JeffH

      chuck b, I openly wondering if BO will survive his first term. He’s starting to be openly critisized for his lack of judgement and leadership by “his” own party, more of the MSM media, mainly print media and not just FOX. This goes to show if you push a negative far enough it can turn into a positive.(One can only hope)

      example: LA Times
      Now even more Democrats slamming Obama for Gulf oil spill response
      May 27, 2010 | On Wednesday, James Carville ripped into Obama’s response to the Gulf of Mexico oil spill calling it “political stupidity.”
      Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell – he said “If Bill Clinton was president, he’d have been in a wetsuit, you know, trying to get down to see the spill.”

      Politico March 16, 2010
      Democrats begin to criticize Obama on Israel
      Democratic critics have begun to question the White House’s public pressure on Netanyahu to reverse plans for controversial new housing and make other, unspecified concessions. The pro-Israel group AIPAC and others have been lobbying Congress to rein in the administration, and the Democrats join Republicans and Senator Joe Lieberman, whose intense criticism of the administration’s Mideast policy has been a constant.
      Pennsylvania Rep. Christopher Carney, a Democrat, and Illinois Republican Rep. Mark Kirk are sending a letter this morning to President Obama asking the administration to climb down.

      “We urge your Administration to refrain from further public criticism of Israel and to focus on more pressing issues affecting this vital relationship, such as signing and enforcing the Iran Refined Petroleum Sanctions Act when it comes to your desk,”

      New York’s intensely pro-Israel delegation has also begun to criticize the White House openly, if in measured tones.

      “We should not have a disproportionate response to Israel. We need to be careful and measured in our response, and I think we all have to take a step back,” Rep. Eliot Engel said on the floor of Congress yesterday

      “While the timing of the East Jerusalem housing announcement was regrettable, it must not cloud the most critical foreign policy issue facing both counties — Irans nuclear threat,” said Senator Kirsten Gillibrand.

      “The Administration, to the extent that it has disagreements with Israel on policy matters, should find way to do so in private and do what they can to defuse this situation,” said Rep. Steve Israel.

      Jewish groups, including the American Jewish Committee and Anti-Defamation League, have also criticized the White House, and while the Congressional criticism remains measured, it appears to be growing louder.

  • Claire

    “If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the prinicpal differeance between a dog and a man.”
    Mark Twain

    • Jeep

      Claire, are you advocating that we accept illegal’s and “make him prosperous”? To what end? So, he will not “bite” us? If so, I say bring it on! At some point, Americans will have had enough of the destruction and death illegal immigration has on it’s fringes and will stand up to it.

      • JeffH

        Jeep…what I think that quote means is that a dog will not bite the hand that feeds it, whereas a man(Illegals)want more of the same..ie man will bite the hand that feeds them to get more.

        • Claire

          JeffH–Thank you–I should have nmade myself clear.

          Jeep–I am totally against illegals being here in the US. If I could, I would be one of the first to get them back to Mexico where they belong. Sorry if you misinterpreted my post.

          • DaveH

            Jeff,
            It’s time to drop that NRA membership and go with a real gun-rights organization:
            http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2010/06/03/nra-endorses-sen-john-mccain

          • DaveH
          • Claire

            DaveH– I have heard my husband and son growl about NRA recently. It doesn’t sound like they are too happy with this organization either.

          • JC

            I’m not that picky about which gun rights groups I support,
            I support them all.

          • DaveH

            Claire,
            30 some years ago, the NRA pretty much weakened our gun ownership rights by focusing on the sporting aspects of guns. Since most people don’t hunt or shoot trap, etc., they severely shot us in the foot with their misguided efforts. They finally woke up about 20 years ago and started making it a matter of self-defense and protection against a possible out-of-control government. Did they do that because they were losing membership to other organizations like GunOwners or 2nd Amendment Foundation? I don’t know, but I have never forgiven them. And now they are throwing their weight behind the very Liberal RINO John McCain. There is no way the NRA will ever get my membership.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, I belong to 4 different gun rights groups as there can never be enough support for our right to keep and bear arms.

  • GOLDEN

    Dear President Obama:

    I’m planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

    We’re planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. Into Mexico, and we’ll need your help to make a few arrangements.

    We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

    I’m sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I’m on my way over?

    Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

    1. Free medical care for my entire family.

    2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

    3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.

    4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.

    5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.

    6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.

    7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

    8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services.

    9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but, I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

    10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

    11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put U S. Flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

    12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

    13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.

    14. I want to receive free food stamps.

    15. Naturally, I’ll expect free rent subsidies.

    16. I’ll need Income tax credits so although I don’t pay Mexican Taxes, I’ll receive money from the government.

    17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov’t pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.

    18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I’ll get a monthly income in retirement.

    I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U..S. From Mexico. I am sure that President Calderon won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely..

    Thank you so much for your kind help. You’re the man!!!

    • TIME

      Golden, Great Post!

  • http://gmail i41

    To beleive people doubt if Omoron is a muslim marxist wanna be dictator! I did not ever have a doubt about his veiws and socialist nature with his friends and close domestic terrrist “fiends”.

  • mike s

    One has to wonder what a state needs to do in order to force the hand of congress to act accordingly.
    It seems obvious to me that If drug dealers are comming across arizonas boarder via mexican military escort.
    And since there is a war on drugs (as stated and enacted by Goerge W Bush, with the support of congress and the department of justice)in this country.
    Then by that standard any such traffick across any boarder of this country of any of its states is intereperatable as an act of war against this country “and” the state of which the action occured.
    According to the articals of confederattion any one state can declaire war against a soveriegn nation (Mexico)if attacked by it and that the rest of the United States have an “obligation” to “defend” that state.
    To deny such defense is a violation of the articals of confederation.
    The same doccument which obligated this nation to civil war when the southern states attempted succession.

  • mike s

    Apollogizing for errors made in my previous reply as I accidentially hit the submit button before I was finnished.

    My point being simply that according to the Second Amendmant of the Constitution (which Arizona should enact its rights to a well armed militia.) And with the authority granted to each state within the Articals of confederation and with the Obligations cast apon all others.
    The Arizona government needs to;
    1) Re-assert it’s states rights under all of this countries original doctrins.
    2) Using it’s national guard units, Patrole it’s own southern boarder inside the national boarder. (This is “state property” not federal.
    3) Trap (and doccument)such a convoy invading it’s state across an international boarder.
    4) Detain all invaders (If still alive) and evidance in state possetion.(To protect it from atempts of destruction by corrupt federal “officials”.)
    5) Declaire such an invasion apon Arizona soil as an act of war from the foriegn body from which it came.(As defined by “invasion of US soil” and “war on drugs” standards.)
    6) Insist of the US congress the support Guarenteed to it in the articals of confederation.
    7) Argue that Since the forieghn body did nothing to stop, deter or prevent the invasion then it must be sanctioned by it as since they allegedly have functioning militart intelligance capable of detecting it as well as an active war on drugs themselves. They have no excuse for not knowing such an invasion was emminent or to be attempted and therefore counterable.

    • DaveH

      Our Government has helped create the mess that is Mexico, by waging their misguided War on Drugs. They have caused the prices of drugs to climb ridiculously high as a result of that illegality. Those high prices are enriching the worst segment of society, the Drug Lords. And we all know that money is power. And it hasn’t even stopped people from doing the drugs, just as Prohibition didn’t stop people from drinking alcohol. Keep in mind that small powerful drugs are a lot easier to move undetected than large bottles of alcohol were.
      The Drug Wars have also given the Government an excuse to grow ever larger and trample on our Constitutional Rights.
      There are plenty of articles out there for those who want to learn. Here is one of many:
      http://mises.org/daily/2174

  • capt z

    We need to start building concentration camps NOW! Mexicans first, then Muslims, then other Hispanics, and finally Catholics (to get all the Pedophiles). We need to start bombing other countries, and we need to get gas chambers running. That’s the only way we can stay as true conservatives who support the Constitution, speak English, and get to keep our guns.

    • Right Wing

      No. That would be more of a communist/socialist method to attempt control of people.

      • JeffH

        That’s what capt z is.

      • Claire

        And a double NO.

      • Save America Susie

        That would be like Nazi Germany…Much better to just deport undocumented people.

    • George E

      capt z,

      Most of us on this site don’t appreciate your humor…….

      • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

        You may not appreciate the “humor” because it’s hitting to close to home. So many of you on this group ought to hear yourselves. I just had a discussion with a friend who in the 60′s became a Republican. He hasn’t changed is belief system one iota in 40 years and would now be considered left wing by the majority of “conservatives” on this group. You guys and ladies are so concerned with fascism etc you can’t see the way the Republicans have politically set up the ground work for the Democrats to nail the lid on the coffin. It’s a one party system and they use distractions like gun control, abortion, immigration and distribution of wealth to keep every one stirred up and at each others throats instead of really addressing what’s going on. I know for sure the majority of the people “get” exactly what I’m saying yet some how manage to spend God knows how many hours a day in vitriolic condemnation of Obama and his supporters and can’t seem to stay focused on the fact that the Republicans are just as bad. I know it;s hard to see that just as I have a difficult time in making many of my acquaintances see that Obama’s really just a shill and isn’t going to do a damned thing except pave the way for a planet totally submissive to the will of the elite who control through banks and corporations.

        • George E

          Duende,

          I’m not sure I see much difference in what you’re saying and what I think most of us here believe. That is, the Democrats, Republicans, and Obama are, generally speaking, all bad for America. If that’s right, we’re pretty much in agreement. Our differences, if there are any, might come in why we think this. I think the majority of us on this blog believe 1) Democrats are too socialistic turning our culture upside down and spending us into poverty, 2) Republicans often “go along to get along” and don’t stand up for true conservative Constitutional values, and 3) Obama is an inexperienced pawn of the socialist left that is taking us, or letting us drift down the wrong path. Do you take exception to any of these beliefs?

          • DaveH

            Democrats want our money, and the Republicans want to control our personal choices.

          • George E

            Dave,

            The Democrats are taking a lot of our choices and liberties away when they take our money. Generally, when they give back a little of it to the states, it comes with conditions, and you know what that means.

            But to the point about choices, I agree with you that Republicans often tend to draw the knot a little too tight for many with some of their social initiatives and arguments. As a Libertarian, I assume you would like to loosen rules against many of the social laws and regulations we now have in place, and prevent others from coming into effect. Actually, I think most people really do agree with that position, in principle, but start to feel uncomfortable when we talk about exactly where the line is drawn. Conservatives want more control on the culture and social environment than Liberals and Libertarians, but all want some limits so that we preserve our civil society.

            Take the issue of legalizing drugs for example. It’s my understanding that Liberals and Libertarians, generally speaking, want to legalize drugs, while most Conservatives don’t want to relax the laws any further. I consider myself Conservative, but have actually taken both sides of this argument, and can see some possible benefits of both. On the one hand, legalizing drugs “might” reduce the cost of enforcing drug laws and “might” reduce some peripheral crimes, like burglary. Legalizing drugs could also potentially drive down the price of drugs to the point where it is no longer profitable to be a drug producer or dealer. This argument makes theoretical sense to me, but I haven’t seen any examples of success where it has been practiced. On the other hand, legalizing drugs may be a way of telling our children and society that drugs are OK to take. Obviously, we don’t want to incentivize the consumption of drugs, and I’m afraid that legalizing them might do just that. In any event, this is a very tough problem, and I doubt there’s a simple answer out there, but we can continue to debate it as we search for the best answers. It might, however, make a good case study to debate whether we should relax more of our social laws/regulations in wholesale fashion. At the end of the day, I think we ought to ask ourselves just how much regulation do we really need to have to preserve, protect, and defend our culture and way of life without taking them too far. Everyone will have a different opinion on this and would elect to draw the line at different places, but few would actually agree with Anarchists and remove all such laws/regulations because we all believe in a civil society. So my point is, there really aren’t very many real extremists (those who want anarchy or dictatorial government) in this debate, regardless what political alignment we may have.

        • TIME

          Duende, Thank you your post is soild and based in “TRUTH”

          I have also said many times here its not a Plus or minus issue, this is an issue of “Power and Control.”

          Saddly most can’t grasp that the talking heads are there for a reason and its not that the vast majority of people wanted them.

          Being in business has in many ways jaded me to much of the good that is done, as I know there is always the dark side that is equal to what ever light one may see for the moment. Energy flow both ways.

          But by that same token its a given by the nature of science alone that equal reactions will happen – it then just becomes a time issue.

          Thus people on an average change every 5 years, but in fact many don’t. Thus the normal cycle is longer going to create that change. Just as the person you noted who has the same outlook after 40 years, stuck in nutral or as I like to say, {waiting on someone else to fit their mold.}
          We see this in life daily, just watch MSNBC they are holding out for those that turn off their brains and follow with out question.

          One must keep and open mind at all times its hard to do and I know that, as do any persons who deal with other persons, its a give and take thing.
          There are those that will listen, and others who will provide speach, where our problems reside are in the lacking speach by many who feel its best not to speak, thus letting the ones who speak do all the talking etc. even if its not what they really feel.

          We then can relate this to the venue of politic’s, as votes are bought and paid for by Tax Payers moneys in the way of programs that give aid to those that wish not to get thier hands dirty.

          Thats how we got here, NOW what will YOU all do to get us out of this mess?
          How far will you go?
          Will you speak up?
          Will you take your congress and senate poeople to task?
          Will you stay on it year after year?
          Even if we can clean up this mess, you can never stop and never take your eyes off the players ever again, as it will be right back at you that fast.
          Will you all commit to this?

          One hour per day looking into what Congress is doing don’t rely on the news nets works look up your Reps and ask them in person whats going on let them know you want a monthly email with details on whats being done, what it means to you now and in 100 years.

          There is no Free Lunch, nothing Free at all, Freedom cost and in some cases its been the very life of someone you know child killed by mindless wars started by twinkies that would run when confronted by the thought of the TRUTH.

    • TIME

      Capt Z, Dude,
      I understand you feel that way based on the helplessness that our Politicians have brought about with the behavior they are exposing to us. But thats not what this country is based on.
      Its based on “FREEDOM” for everyone.

      I think that that anyone here illegally should be sent back to where ever they came from and apply in the proper way to get citizenship, if granted – I will take them with open arms.

      As for rounding up people to put in camps, Dude thats what the progressives want to do to us who love FREEDOM.
      Thus how can any of us who firmly believe in FREEDOM allow such behavior.
      Its a double sided sword that I know but Freedom cuts both ways.

      We need to get our politicians back to working for “WE the People” not the Politicians telling us whats best for us, based on how they buy votes to stay in power.
      Thats what we all mean by smaller Government.

  • Christian American

    It is really sad that so many are ignorant of the constitution, and our history, while their own opinions wonder aimlessly being adapted to fit their own needs or biases. These are the same people who support this administration, and deny the positive impact the Bible has had on the great history of our country, allowing it to lead the world in such a short amount of time while advancing our standard of living as occupants of this planet.

  • phil mason

    For those that doubt our illegal immigration problem, I invite you to the once great state of Texas. Ten years ago my son started managing ranches some 60 miles from the border(that would be the Mexican border for some of the respondents). Then the illegals would cross with gallon jugs of water and a bag of clothes. Recently my son would not even think of going on HIS OWNERS PROPERTY without carrying a side arm , loaded rifle and shotgun in the truck. Most of you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about on immigration! Our Sheriff in Victoria Texas told me that not only are Mexicans swarming across the boarder so are Chinese and any other nationality you can mention. He also said he has be placing monthly calls to Washington for several years to relay the problem, all calls falling on deaf ears! Hooray for Arizona and I hope Texas follows suit! By the way, hundreds if not thousands of illegals have babies in Uvalde, Tx. AT YOUR EXPENSE(IF ANY OF YOU PAY TAXES). IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ME SPEND ONE WEEK IN THE UVALDE HOSPITAL WHERE TWO OF OUR GRANDCHILDREN WERE BORN! I’M SURE THE same is true for California, San Antonio, Dallas, El paso and most cities in Arizona. If illegals should be allowed to NOT BE BOUND BY THE LAW THEN BY WHAT LOGIC SHOULD ANY OF US BE BOUND. Anarchy is in order! Apply the law, get control of our borders, the people must regain control of our government! One final thought, for those that do not see it this way please send me your addresses, I would like to visit your house and steal your most prized possessions! Bet you would have the ass then.

    • George E

      Phil,

      Let me add another story about illegal immigration on our Southern border. My daughter is a nurse in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She works in the University of New Mexico medical center hospital there. She has told us stories about how illegal immigrant women make their way to this hospital every day to have their (anchor) babies free of charge. After a few days stay, they are provided free items for her baby and given a bus ticket back to Mexico. This goes on in the thousands, and that’s just one hospital near the border. I just wonder where New Mexico is getting all the money that it takes to pay for free health care for these illegal immigrants, not to mention the very large population of poor that they already have, especially the huge number of native Americans that live in and around that area. This hospital is the largest in New Mexico and almost all of the services provided are government (citizen)-paid, not personal or private insurance paid. Incredible!

  • http://herringtons.home.mindspring.com lighterknot

    Chip Wood. Never thought I’d agree with you on anything, but on all three points I lean in your direction especially anchor babies.

    As far as this thread is concerned; don’t any of you pseudo Christian right wing nuts have jobs? Oh; you must be sticking it too your employer like good Christens you couldn’t all be government employees, just sitting there at work working this thread. The minute this blog is posted it’s too long, I get the feeling it’s just more chips of the old wooden block head maybe doing what they were hired to do.

    This blog has been referred to as a house where liberals and nonbelievers are unwelcome. I thought it was a public forum honoring our rights of speech and thought. It borders on an insane asylum of pathetic inmates calling each other names. I’m no exception…though I’d love to be rational It’s not mint to happen here.

    The purpose of this blog is to elect republicans and keep the money flowing up and to the super rich a small 1% who already own 90% of the wealth.

    • George E

      Lighterknot,

      I certainly can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m retired, so I have a lot of flexibility in how I spend my time. I enjoy reading some of the posts, especially when they aren’t vulgar and engage in name calling. I also enjoy expressing my own personal views to see if others generally agree/disagree with them. But, I will admit that it is easy to spend too much time working these blogs if you aren’t careful. You can literally spend hours upon hours here.

      There is a lot of name calling on this blog. I guess people feel more comfortable engaging in that behavior since it can be done anonymously. Personally, I feel like if I call someone a derogatory name, then I’m only inviting them to do the same to me. When that happens, the discussion frequently escalates out of control. Anyway, I generally feel it’s better to give the other guy the last word rather than waste a lot of my time engaging in that sort of dialogue.

      I can’t help but wonder, however, if the liberals who frequent this blog aren’t doing so just to take the subject off of the facts so that it devolves into a vulgar verbal rock throwing contest. This tends to lend credence to the notion that conservatives, et al, are nut jobs, which is far, far from reality, in my opinion. Otherwise, I can’t see why liberals continue to come back here. For them, this blog must be torture, or they are just gluttons for punishment. In any case, I enjoy the posts that are well written and based on sound fact and logic, regardless whether I personally agree with them or not.

      • Claire

        George E —Count me in. Good post.

      • libertytrain

        George – I’m with Claire – excellent post.

        • George E

          Thanks guys. I do appreciate your support.

      • Save America Susie

        George E, I agree with you also. Name calling happen when the other person has pressed a person’s buttons and they can think of a response & their feelings are hurt. A lot of times, both sides have some good points to say. But the debate gets wrecked when personal attack happens. If a person feels attacked, they will never be persuaded. To persuade, one must discuss instead. It takes real patience on both sides to actually discuss.

        • George E

          Susie,

          Good points. Thanks.

    • DaveH

      Lighterknot,
      The beauty of what this country once stood for is that anybody could join that 1% of the rich if they worked hard, worked long hours, learned all they could, and took the necessary personal and financial risks to get there. Most of us don’t want to put in that effort (me included), and many of us would rather sit back and carp at those that did successfully.
      This country is now evolving into a Big Government style, Crony-Capitalism environment, where it is not so easy to succeed by the previously mentioned efforts. We now usually need to become Political Sycophants to get to the higher levels. That goes hand-in-hand with Big Government. As Government Grows, Corruption Flows. If you don’t like that (I don’t), then vote for people who promise to shrink the size of Government. The only Political Party that I know with that goal is the Libertarian Party:
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform
      As for the name-calling and ridicule, I engage in it only against those who draw first-blood. I treat people like they treat me. I noticed (correct me if I’m wrong) that you sprinkled your comment with the Liberal tactics of name-calling, and ridicule even though no such manipulation was directed at you. If you want civil discourse, then lead by example.

    • JeffH

      The only logical response to make is that your folks must have had serious nightmares over haveing not tied a tighter knot before you were concieved.

    • DaveH

      And Knot,
      Why do you Liberals comment on this board? This board is about “Personal Liberty”. A Liberal’s idea of Personal Liberty is to Liberate other Persons from their money. Not quite what we have in mind here.

      • JeffH

        DaveH, Most of the liberal ranters come here to try to screw up someone elses day. They’re so miserable and hate filled that they have to try to make everbody around them miserable as well.

    • meteorlady

      I love the different voices here. Sorry if you would feel unwelcome. Most are pretty adamant about their points of view, but almost everyone here is intelligent and have valid and interesting comments to contribute. I must admit there have been times when I have read some pretty valid points from both sides of the fence.

      • Claire

        meteorlady– I love the different voices too. That is why I am still here. I try to read “between the lines” and I can honestly say that I like a number of these people on this post very much. Even though we do not all agree with each other, they are still good, decent people.

  • Rodney

    Phil,

    As a proud fellow Texan, I am with you on this 100%!!!

    • Claire

      I love Texas, the food, the people, the hospitality and just about everything. And selfishly I have to add Texas judges were favorable to my dogs whenever I traveled to Texas to show them!
      But all kidding aside, it is a wonderful state. I met so many new people and they were so nice to me. And the food–glorious.

      • George E

        Claire,

        I’m pleased to hear you had a good experience on your trip to Texas. I’ve lived in several places around the state since 1957. We like (most of) the people, the culture and history, especially the independent, hard-working, do-it-yourself, help your neighbor attitude of the people. We aren’t too fond of the summer heat, however. We make do as best we can with our air conditioners, swimming pools, lakes and beaches to get us through it….ha. Also, a lot of Texans spend time in the mountains of New Mexico, Colorado, and Wyoming during the summer to cool off. Come back whenever time and money permit. You’re always welcome.

        • Claire

          George E–I have been to Texas 3 times, and won big with my dogs all three times. What impressed me is that the exhibitors that were from Texas congratulated me and were very gracious. And I felt they were sincere when they congratulated me. Sincerity means a lot to me. I rarely find that here in Illinois and parts of the Midwest. Everybody gets mad as heck when you beat their dogs.
          I got lost one time near the Dallas-Fort Worth area, flagged down a State Trooper and he escorted me to the interstate that I needed to take to get to Austin. I really had myself turned around! But I remember the trooper telling me to come back to Texas. He was amazed that I had 5 dogs in the van, and had traveled by myself.

          • George E

            Claire,

            That’s a wonderful story. I’m glad it all worked out for you.

            We respect strong women here. That is, we respect women who aren’t afraid to do whatever it takes to get the job done, within the bounds of accepted moral and ethical definitions. This frequently means that women will venture out into what many think as “man’s” world. I think this must have been one of the virtues that our pioneers brought to the Western territories….

          • DaveH

            I worked in Fort Worth for about 3 years. One thing I noticed was the Airline Security Officers at Dallas Love Field were head over heals more polite than any others I have ever dealt with. It was a good experience.

          • George E

            Dave,

            Thanks for sharing your experience with us. It’s always nice to hear good things about your state. I’m sure you’ve noticed that Texas is a state many folks just love to hate…..ha.

  • Claire

    “Any man that does not like dogs and yet wants them about does not deserve to be in the White House.” Calvin Coolidge

    • George E

      My wife has often said “you can tell the character of people by the way they treat animals.” I think there’s a lot of wisdom in that thought.

      • Claire

        George E–Your wife is absolutely correct and please tell her she is a very wise lady. I have always thought the same.

      • JeffH

        George E, give your wife a big thumbs up for me would ya.

        • George E

          She’s got a big smile, but suggests I not bring her into another conversation on this blog……..ha. Thanks.

  • http://gmail i41

    When I worked in the Denver area, every section of the mexican neighborhoods, usually had packs of dogs scavanging and wandering around. The people I worked with had growen up and lived in the area for a couple of generations, used to refer the loose hounds, as the illegals. They explained it was just like the dog’s owners, always jumping fences and creating messes in the an other yard they got into. The working with non speaking English people was it tough to finish and do jobs effienctly. I didn’t have problems with 1st generation workers , but 2nd and following generations, were always acting stupid, like they couldn’t understand English, even though they supposedly graduated from school. The whining about picking on mexicans and not getting a fair chance to get better pay, when they were slow moving and wouldn’t work with blacks, asians or whites. The victomology BS was, nobody understands our culture crap. The ones just up from mexico were alway trying to learn and worked to best of what ever job was being done. The attitude was strickly a learned response from our social enginering college clowns and the liberal social programs.

  • chuck b

    240,000: the number of illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States, a “conservative” estimate according to a study by the Violent Crime Institute. Over the 88-month study, illegal aliens were responsible for an estimated 960,000 violent sex crimes in the U.S.

    4-10,000,000: the number of illegal aliens who crossed into the United States in 2005, bringing with them 5.6 to 11.2 million pounds of cocaine and 34.3 to 68.6 million pounds of marijuana. As many as 19,500 aliens originated in countries identified as state sponsors of terror, according to the Department of Homeland Security. This figure includes members of Hezbollah who have already entered the United States across the southwest border; and agents of Venezuela, which is providing falsified documentation for entry into the U.S. illegally.

    $2,200,000,000: the amount spent on food assistance programs for illegal aliens including food stamps, WIC, free school lunches, etc. each year.

    $2,500,000,000: the amount spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens annually.

    $3,000,000,000: the approximate annual federal spending to house non-U.S. citizens in federal prisons, which represents roughly 30% of the prison population according to the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Most of non-citizen prison population is comprised of illegal aliens.

    $12,000,000,000: the amount spent each year on primary and secondary public education for children in the U.S. illegally, many of whom cannot speak English.

    $17,000,000,000: the amount spent each year on primary and secondary public education for American-born children of illegal aliens, known as ‘anchor babies’.

    $11-22,000,000,000: the amount spent on welfare for illegal aliens by state governments each year.

    $50,000,000,000: the amount spent annually on providing welfare and social services to illegal aliens by federal taxpayers.

    $200,000,000,000: the amount of “suppressed American wages” caused by illegal immigration and lax policies such as H-1B programs.

    What are the true costs of illegal immigration to American citizens? In hard dollar terms, it’s hundreds of billions — all of which could be better used elsewhere, especially in these tough economic times.

  • http://www.backupamerica.org Betsy Ross

    I am a former 45 year Arizona resident, who actually attended school in Arizona with Ms. McCain, and a great many other of the political leaders there. I left four years ago because this issue should be a nonissue, and it is the outside agitators creating the problems (mostly transplanted Canadians and Californians), and a publicity seeking Sheriff, Governor and select politicians using this issue for political purposes – feeding the criminal and immigration lawyers in Arizona most of all, along with those civil rights lawyers who lobbied for “civil rights” for foreigners as somehow under our Bill of Rights.

    Arizona has the remedy, and it is in the Constitution. All they need do is pass a Resolution directing the Governor to direct the Attorney General to filed a “BREAK OF CONTRACT (NOT BREACH)” action against the fedearal government under the common defense provisions and Secure Fence Act. End of story.

    This law does nothing but feed the lawyers, and is addressing the symptoms and not the solution to just why there are so many illegals in Arizona and throughout the country.

    We have porous and open borders, and there is no excuse after 9-11 for either of the political parties to continue using this and posturing about it. They are guilty of treason for so doing.

    Even the Pope has a fence surrounding his country from actually his own church members so the Catholic Church’s position on this is hypocritical to say the least, and self-serving.

    Period.

  • http://www.backupamerica.org Betsy Ross

    This new “law” was meant for the lawyers, and will be selectively enforced as most of those politicos and the Sheriff gain donations from the employers that hire them through “civic” organizations.

    This law simply gains those illegals access now to TWO due process hearings, one at the state level, and one at the federal.

    Open your eyes, you naive Americans.

    Who hold most of the positions in our federal and state government, and contribute the most to campaigns? That’s right, the lawyers.

    This law was written to feed the courts and legal industry, and treats the symptoms, not the cause.

    Unbelieveable the spins still on this bogus legislation.

    • George E

      Betsy,

      I believe the Arizona law will serve the interests of the legal establishment, like most laws do. However, I also believe it does much more than that.

      By the way, what do you think the root cause of the illegal immigration problem is?

    • George E

      Betsy,

      By the way, nice post. I appreciate your thoughts on this very important subject. You have a unique point of view that most of us can’t understand or appreciate. Thanks.

  • George E

    Hey guys,

    Reading these posts and thinking about the illegal immigration problem has led me to an idea which I think could help fix the illegal immigration problem. Basically, there seems to be two major special interest groups fighting against border enforcement and having great influence with our politicians. They are 1) businesses (many are small businesses which contribute to Republican politicians) who want cheap labor, and 2) the Democratic Party which wants the vote of these immigrants if they can give them citizenship. To fix the border enforcement problem, we have to address each of these special interests. Here’s what I think we should do.

    Regarding businesses who want cheap labor, we need to severely penalize anyone employing illegal immigrants if they don’t take responsible measures to determine whether they are here legally on visas or are US citizens, and/or knowingly and willingly employ these immigrants. On the other hand, we need to make sure businesses in the USA aren’t starved of inexpensive labor or many will simply shut down and move offshore. Therefore, we should set up a program whereby employers can bring in temporary migrant workers legally. This means that the employers would have to sponsor these people and have some responsibility for them while they are living and working in this country. It also means that the workers would have to pay for the services they receive from our government, and should be required to be insured to protect American citizens against property damage and/or personal injury or death caused by the immigrant while here. If we do this correctly, we should largely shut down illegal employment for illegal immigrants, or at least manage it better.

    Regarding citizenship, we should pass a law that prohibits anyone found in this country illegally, without reasonable cause, to be ineligible for US citizenship. When caught in the country illegally, we should 1) deport the immigrant, or 2) incarcerate them for breaking our laws, or 3) give them a visa to stay and work here. Which option is selected should depend on the individual circumstances. However, in no case should we give these people amnesty and US citizenship. If we did this, the Democrats would understand that there is no reason to continue encouraging or allowing illegal immigration, and should start supporting border enforcement since to do otherwise would be a lost cause for them. I believe many of their current supporters would abandon them when they understand there are other humane options other than deportation or citizenship.

    As long as the Democrats argue that it’s impractical to deport 12 million illegal immigrants, or split up immigrant families since some may be US citizens, and offer the only practical solution as amnesty, I think they have a chance to win the argument with the American public on a most humane basis. If we counter that argument with something like I’ve proposed, I think it becomes much harder for them to win the debate. If Americans really do agree that it’s not practical to deport illegal immigrants, we still have the option of letting them stay with a visa rather than giving them citizenship. This means they’ll have to keep their “noses clean” while they are here or they will be deported or incarcerated, and it also means they won’t get to vote while they are here. This approach also allows us to segregate these temporary workers as a group so we don’t have to give them all of the privileges of US citizens if we don’t want to. It seems they are a big financial burden on our country, so this would allow us to control that expense better than we do today, I think.

    I am aware that this won’t be easy, but it is a path that might just help fix this problem, I think. We’ll still have to take control of the Congress and Administration, and win the American public over to get this done. I’m just curious, what do you think? Am I off track anywhere?

    • chuck b

      george e

      you have the correct solution, i agree.

      we used to issue green cards for the mexican workers and it worked fine. the unions and gov. brown of calif. put a stop to it and that’s where the trouble started.
      i believe we have closer to thirty million illegals in the country and barry soetoro is planning on using this base to keep him in power. los angeles ciry and county probably have close to 12 million

      • George E

        Thanks Chuck. Appreciate your thoughts.

  • Mick for thought

    To all, in this place, I say farewell. Two great quotes come to mind:

    Ignorance is curable only to those who will take the medicine.

    You can lead a rock to water but you cannot teach it to swim.

    I have worked hard to shed a little light on the wealth of misinformation from both the left and the right and have grown to realized you can not shine light into a bottomless pit of dark stupidity. Keep researching down your one-way streets, never turn left or right, and continue to ratify your own bias.

    Do not bother to reply. I will not be back to read your bitter snide responses.

    Goodbye and Goodnight.

    PS Samurai hope you recognize a mirror when you see it next time.

    • JeffH

      …the fence has fallen…

    • TIME

      Mick,
      For one you have to have a clue before you make statments of any kind. With that said your lacking any clue; thus that in its own right provides the very fact that your rantings are little more than road apples that have sat for days in the mud.
      They smell with a twist of pretzel logic added for good measure.

      When you wake up and really can grasp the gravity of whats going on, then and only then will you be treated as if you have gray matter.

      Thats not said with any malice, its said as I have seen the beast, I have stood next to the beast, I have eaten with the beast.
      Thus I know the beast when I see it.

      I can only hope that in time you will wake up, and then you too will see the beast. Good luck and goodby.

  • publius

    if you are going to consider a particular amendment to be invalid, instead of considering its improper ratifacation, why not consider which particulare article of the orignial consitution was violated by its enactment??? check out chisholm v. georgia 1793 and compair it to the so-called eleventh amendment, and dont forget to read the federalists defination of “amendment”.

  • Charlie

    Arizona’s Illegal Immigration Costs

    (Washington, D.C. May 18, 2010) New research from the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) estimates that the cost of illegal immigration to Arizonans is over $2.7 billion annually. This newly-released estimate includes additional areas of expenditure not included in FAIR’s 2004 estimate of about $1.3 billion annual expenditures.
    FAIR’s research shows that K-12 education of the children of illegal aliens costs the state’s taxpayers nearly half of the total fiscal burden. Other factors included in FAIR’s estimate are Medicaid, SCHIP, incarceration, welfare and general government expenditures. FAIR’s estimate also includes tax state revenue collected from the illegal immigrant population through property, sales and income taxes. This tax revenue represents about $143 million annually, leaving a deficit of more than a $2.7 billion.

    Tax payers dollars mis spent..Its not fair to American Citizens Weed them out!

  • Charlie

    We have priority, protect our borders and feed our people. and yet Clinton and Obama continually spend .Ecuador Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino said the situation in Honduras “put the Inter-American order at risk which had been built with so much effort over these past years.”
    “My government cannot recognize the new government in Honduras while there are violations against human rights,” Patino told the OAS assembly.
    Clinton also warned the group on its financial situation, which she said needed to be rectified by the time the next budget discussions begin in September.
    “We must work together to reform the OAS budget and take responsibility. The current path is fiscally unsustainable and threatens the viability of the organization itself,” she said.
    The United States contributes almost 60 percent of the OAS-estimated $100 million budget. Clinton said President Barack Obama had asked Congress to approve a 3 percent rise this year and other countries should follow suit.
    The Obama administration has battled perceptions in Latin America that early vows of close cooperation have failed to materialize along with pledges to liberalize treatment of Cuba and to review immigration laws.
    The Rio Group, which includes regional giants Mexico and Brazil, agreed in February to form a new Latin American group that could eventually be an alternative to the OAS, which could weaken U.S. influence in the region. The United States contributes almost 60 percent of the OAS-estimated $100 million budget. Clinton said President Barack Obama spending money the Americans need that have had taken away due to the Poor managementand over spending Federal Funds now so in debit! Is this burying or helping American Tax payers. Want happened to the phrase “sweep under your own door step” We pay and support what they do and this is on our behalf?

    Who gave them the rights to break America down. Is this what their Oath of Office said?

  • Joy

    For you WEM…The Government cannot refuse to treat illegal alien. Don’t you know that? All you have to do is go to the public health care and they will take care of you and your wife. Don’t be better…do something that is for the good of our country. If you knew someone that is working without social security then you need to report to the ICE. Don’t close your eyes because the minute you open your eyes everything is already taking care of the illegal alien. I knew that illegal alliens who only here for a TOURIST work and get a better treatment than AMERICAN people. So please do something.

  • Joy

    Rod I agree with you. Poor thing! not even my daughter gets a job. We will be like some other countries that is full of corrupt people. But..by the way…why we are only focusing border jumpers or the cayotes. How about people that came here to visit and they never return to their own native land. They even get a faster job than we do. I was amazed small businesses don’t ask for social security number.
    A person just got in here for a month and she got the JOB right away. Holly Molly! The employer knows that this fellow doesn’t have a social security and still got hired. Is it not DISGUSTING! I AM SO DISGUSTED THAT PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO DO THIS.
    wE NEED ACTION FOR THIS.

  • Joy

    I SUPPORT ARIZONA.

  • Joy

    GOLDEN! GOOD JOB! HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEEH
    IF THAT WILL BE GRANTED…..AMERICANS ARE A LAUGHING STOCK.!HEHEHEHEH! WE ARE NOW?

  • Joy

    GOOODNIGHT EVERYONE …SEE YAH TOMORROW.!

  • Steve

    http://www.janbrewer.com/actio…..a-postcard

    Here is a link where you can send O’Dummer a FREE postcard inviting him to Arizona to personally see all the ILLEGAL ALIENS crossing over the border. It seems he was busy hosting Paul McCartney and then some grunge band on the day that Arizona Governor Jan Brewer invited him to come. Maybe I would forgo a trip to Az to meet Sir Paul McCartney, but a grunge band?? LOL… Maybe from Obummers point of view, socializing with rockers is more important than his presidential duties…..

  • hundabuxt

    If Mexicans and other ostensibly hopeless peoples come here to make money doing those jobs Americans don’t want to do, why not put the hundreds of thousands of prisoners in our jails to work doing these jobs much like the Chain Gangs in the South? We’d at least get a return on the high cost of incarceration and the prisoners would be less inclined to get into trouble having something to do, moreover they might learn a skill to use when and if released. Even better include those arrested for having hired illegals knowingly.

  • Ron

    While I appreciate your disappointment and anger let’s put the blame where it needs to be. Lawyers got America into this mess, and now more Lawyers are needed to stand up and get us out!

    Lawyers along with a Presidential Administration are preventing the cleanup of BP’s Oil spill just to push a political point on Cap & Trade. When qualified help is turned away, and union thugs are brought in for a photo op and then whisked away when the President leaves, and when media is controlled as to what they report, that’s a serious problem.

    When a President apologizes to other countries for it’s own country, and when a President knowingly leaves it’s border open while illegal’s, Terrorists, and dangerous criminals are threatening American society, in my mind that’s grounds for impeachment. I have not heard anyone of importance calling for impeachment. U.S. Courts are looking the other way and will not hear a complaint against this Administration, yet I have not seen many lawyers try to rectify this situation. They appear to be willing to let them have America an turn it into a dictatorship without a peep. America needs smart Lawyers to stand up and be willing to fight for what little freedoms are left. Where are they?

  • Mary Lock

    I personally think that the army or group of national guards from several states should be down there with plenty of amo and shoot anyone crossing that border. Signs of no entry in spanish should be placed along the border and notice that they will be shot if entering. Obama is not doing his job to keep us safe. Something drastic needs to be done.

  • http://jtberger@accesscomm.ca joe berger

    Why don’t we adopt an immigration policy similar to Israel’s ??
    Works well for them.

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