Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty

The Collapsing U.S. Economy And The End Of The World

July 10, 2012 by  

The Collapsing U.S. Economy And The End Of The World
The outlook for economic recovery is poor.

Washington has been at war since October 2001, when President George W. Bush concocted an excuse to order the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. This war took a backseat when Bush concocted another excuse to order the invasion of Iraq in 2003, a war that went on without significant success for eight years and has left Iraq in chaos with dozens more killed and wounded every day, a new strongman in place of the illegally executed former strongman, and the likelihood of the ongoing violence becoming civil war.

Upon his election, President Barack Obama foolishly sent more troops to Afghanistan and renewed the intensity of that war, now in its 11th year, to no successful effect.

These two wars have been expensive. According to estimates by Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes, when all costs are counted, the Iraq invasion cost U.S. taxpayers $3 trillion. Ditto for the Afghanistan war. In other words, the two gratuitous wars doubled the U.S. public debt. This is the reason there is no money for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, the environment and the social safety net.

Americans got nothing out of the wars; but, as the war debt will never be paid off, U.S. citizens and their descendants will have to pay interest on $6,000 billion of war debt in perpetuity.

Not content with these wars, the Bush/Obama regime is conducting military operations in violation of international law in Pakistan, Yemen and Africa; organized the overthrow by armed conflict of the government in Libya; is currently working to overthrow the Syrian government; and continues to marshal military forces against Iran.

Finding the Muslim adversaries that Washington created to be insufficient for its energies and budget, Washington has encircled Russia with military bases and has begun the encirclement of China. Washington has announced that the bulk of its naval forces will be shifted to the Pacific over the next few years, and Washington is working to re-establish its naval base in the Philippines, construct a new one on a South Korean island, acquire a naval base in Vietnam, and build air and troop bases elsewhere in Asia.

In Thailand, Washington is attempting to purchase with the usual bribes an air base used in the Vietnam War. There is opposition, as the country does not wish to be drawn into Washington’s orchestrated conflict with China. Downplaying the real reason for the air base, Washington, according to Thai newspapers, told the Thai government that the base was needed for “humanitarian missions.” This didn’t fly, so Washington had NASA ask for the air base in order to conduct “weather experiments.” Whether this ruse is sufficient cover remains to be seen.

U.S. Marines have been sent to Australia and elsewhere in Asia.

To corral China and Russia (and Iran) is a massive undertaking for a country that is financially busted. With wars and bankster bailouts, Bush and Obama have doubled the U.S. national debt while failing to address the disintegration of the U.S. economy and rising hardships of U.S. citizens.

The charts below are courtesy of

GNon-Farm Payroll Employment

The annual U.S. budget deficit is adding to the accumulated debt at about $1.5 trillion per year with no prospect of declining. The financial system is broken and requires ongoing bailouts. The economy is busted and has been unable to create high-paying jobs — indeed any jobs. Despite years of population growth, payroll employment as of mid-2012 is the same as in 2005 and substantially below 2008. Yet, the government and financial presstitute media tell us that we have a recovery.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, employment in 2011 was only 1 million more than in 2002. As it takes about 150,000 new jobs each month to stay even with population growth, that leaves a decade-long job deficit of 15 million jobs.

The U.S. unemployment and inflation rates are far higher than reported. In previous columns I have explained, based on statistician John Williams’ work, the reasons that the government’s headline numbers are serious understatements. The headline (U3) unemployment rate of 8.2 percent doesn’t count discouraged workers who have given up on finding a job. The government has a second unemployment rate (U6), seldom reported, which includes short-term discouraged workers. That rate is 15 percent. When the long-term discouraged workers are added in, the current U.S. unemployment rate is 22 percent, a number closer to the unemployment rate of the Great Depression than to the unemployment rates of postwar recessions.

GDP Annual Growth

Changes in the way inflation is measured have destroyed the consumer price index as a measure of the cost of living. The new methodology is substitution-based. If the price of an item in the index rises, a lower-priced alternative takes its place. In addition, some price rises are labeled quality improvements whether they are or not and, thus, do not show up in the index. People still have to pay the higher price, but it is not counted as inflation.

Currently, the substitution-based rate of inflation is about 2 percent. However, when inflation is measured as the actual cost of living, the rate of inflation is 5 percent.

The Misery Index is the sum of the inflation and unemployment rates. The level of the current Misery Index depends on whether the new rigged measures are used, which understate the misery, or the former methodology that accurately measures it.

Prior to the November 1980 election, the Misery Index hit nearly 22 percent, which was one reason for Ronald Reagan’s victory over President Jimmy Carter. Today, if we use previous methodology, the Misery Index stands at 27 percent. But if we use the new rigged methodology, the Misery Index is 10 percent.

The understatement of inflation serves to boost gross domestic product. GDP is calculated in current dollars. To be able to determine whether GDP rose because of price rises or because of increases in real output, GDP is deflated by the index. The higher the inflation rate, the less the growth in real output and vice versa. When the substitution-based methodology is used to measure inflation, the U.S. economy experienced real growth in the 21st century except for the sharp dip during 2008-2010. However, if the cost-of-living based methodology is used, except for a short period during 2004, the U.S. economy has experienced no real growth since 2000.

In the chart above, the lower measure (blue) of real GDP is deflated with the inflation methodology that measured cost of living. The higher GDP measure (red) deflates GDP with the new substitution-based methodology.

The lack of employment and real GDP growth go together with the decline in real household median income. The growth in consumer debt substituted for the lack of income growth and kept the economy going until consumers exhausted their ability to take on more debt. With the consumer dead in the water, the outlook for economic recovery is poor.

Real Median Household Income Index

Politicians and the Federal Reserve are making the outlook even worse. At a time of high unemployment and debt-stressed households, politicians at local, State and Federal levels are cutting back on government provision of healthcare, pensions, food stamps, housing subsidies and every other element of the social safety net. These cutbacks, of course, further reduce aggregate demand and the ability of income-stressed Americans to survive.

The Federal Reserve has interest rates so low that retirees and others living on their savings can earn nothing on their money. The interest rates paid on bank CDs and government and corporate bonds are lower than the rate of inflation. To live on interest income, a person has to purchase Greek, Spanish or Italian bonds and run the risk of capital loss. The Federal Reserve’s policy of negative interest rates forces retirees to spend down their capital in order to live. In other words, the Fed’s policy is destroying personal savings as people are forced to spend their capital in order to cover living expenses.

In June, the Federal Reserve announced that it was going to continue its policy of driving nominal interest rates even lower — this time focusing on long-term Treasury bonds. The Fed said it would be purchasing $400 billion of the Treasury’s 30-year bonds.

Driving interest rates down means driving bond prices up. With five-year Treasury bonds paying only .7 percent and 10-year Treasuries paying only 1.6 percent, below even the official rate of inflation, Americans desperate for yield move into 30-year bonds currently paying 2.7 percent. However, the high bond prices mean that the risk of capital loss is very high.

The Fed’s debt monetization, or a drop in the exchange value of the dollar as other countries move away from its use to settle their balance of payments, could set off inflation that would take interest rates out of the Fed’s control. As interest rates rise, bond prices fall.

In other words, bonds are now the bubble that real estate, stocks and derivatives were. When this bubble pops, Americans will take another big hit to their remaining wealth.

It makes no sense to invest in long-term bonds at negative interest rates when the Federal government is piling up debt that the Federal Reserve is monetizing and when other countries are moving away from the flood of dollars. The potential for a rising rate of inflation is high from debt monetization and from a drop in the dollar’s exchange value. Yet, bond fund portfolio managers have to follow the herd into longer-term maturities or see their performance relative to their peers drop to the bottom of the rankings.

Some individual investors and foreign central banks, anticipating the dollar’s loss of value, are accumulating gold and silver bullion. Realizing the danger to the dollar and its policy from the rapid rise in the price of bullion during 2011, the Federal Reserve has arranged offsetting action. When the demand for physical bullion drives up the price, short sales of bullion in the paper market are used to drive the price back down.

Similarly, when investors begin to flee Treasuries, thus causing interest rates to rise, JPMorgan Chase & Co. and other dependencies of the Federal Reserve sell interest-rate swaps, thus offsetting the effect on interest rates of the bond sales. (Keep in mind that interest rates rise when bond prices fall and vice versa.)

The point of all this information is to establish that except for the 1 percent, the incomes and wealth of Americans are being cut back across the board. From 2002 through 2011, the economy lost 3.5 million manufacturing jobs. These jobs were replaced with lower-paying server and bartender jobs (1,189,000), ambulatory healthcare service jobs (1,512,000) and social assistance jobs (578,000).

These replacement jobs in domestic services mean that, on a net basis, U.S. consumer income was moved out of the country. Potential aggregate demand in the United States dropped by the differences in pay in the job categories. Clearly and unambiguously, jobs offshoring lowered U.S. disposable income and U.S. GDP and, thereby, employment.

Despite the lack of an economic base, Washington’s hegemonic aspirations continue unabated. Other countries are amused at Washington’s unawareness. Russia, China, India, Brazil and South Africa are forming an agreement to abandon the U.S. dollar as the currency for international settlement between themselves.

On July 4, China Daily reported: “Japanese politicians and prominent academics from China and Japan urged Tokyo on Tuesday to abandon its outdated foreign policy of leaning on the West and accept China as a key partner as important as the United States. The Tokyo Consensus, a joint statement issued at the end of the Beijing-Tokyo Forum, also called on both countries to expand trade and promote a free-trade agreement for China, Japan and South Korea.”

This means that Japan is in play.

The Chinese government, more intelligent than Washington, is responding to Washington’s military threats by enticing away Washington’s two key Asian allies. As the Chinese economy is now as large as the United States’ and on far firmer footing, and as Japan now has more trade with China than with the United States, the enticement is appealing. Moreover, China is next door, and Washington is distant and drowning in its hubris.

Washington, which flicked its middle finger to international law and to its own law and Constitution with its arrogance and gratuitous and illegal wars and with its assertion of the right to murder its own citizens and those of its allies (such as Pakistan), has made the United States a pariah state.

Washington still controls its bought-and-paid-for NATO puppets, but these puppet states are overwhelmed with derivative debt problems brought to them by Wall Street and by sovereign debt problems, some of which were covered up by Wall Street’s Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

Europe is on the ropes and has no money with which to subsidize Washington’s wars of hegemony.

Washington is becoming an isolated and despised element of the world community. Washington has purchased Europe, Canada, Australia, the former Soviet state of Georgia (and almost Ukraine), and Columbia; and it continues its effort to purchase the entire world. But sentiment is turning against the rising Gestapo state that has shown itself to be lawless, ruthless and indifferent, even hostile, to human life and human rights.

A government whose military was unable with the help of the U.K. to occupy Iraq after eight years and was forced to end the conflict by putting the “insurgents” on the U.S. military payroll and paying them to stop killing American troops, and a government whose military has been unable to subdue a few thousand lightly armed Taliban after 11 years, is over the top when it organizes war against Iran, Russia and China.

The only prospect Washington has of prevailing in such an undertaking is first use of nuclear weapons, of catching its demonized opponents off guard by nuking them out of the blue. In other words, by the elimination of life on Earth.

Is this Washington’s program revealed by neoconservative warmonger Bill Kristol who had no shame to ask publicly: “What’s the good of nuclear weapons if you can’t use them?”

–Paul Craig Roberts

Paul Craig Roberts

was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of The Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His Internet columns have attracted a worldwide following, and can be accessed here.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “The Collapsing U.S. Economy And The End Of The World”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at

  • Michael J.

    SsssH! The sheeple are not supposed to know that Obama and Bush were/are reading from the same playbook! And for heavens sake, don’t let on that Romney is of the same team also. Geesh!, how do expect the elites to continue ruling the world if you keep letting the cat out of the bag?

    • Robert Smith

      Yup, the 1% are just gonna keep taking it from the rest of us.

      How long can we allow them to suck?


      • Ted G

        I think you mean the government just keeps taking more from us.

        Stop being a tool for socialism Robert

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Rob, sadly you are a dupe. Why do you bother with your idiotic statements on a conservative web site? Do you actually think anyone really pays attention to your idle thoghts?

      • Charles Moore

        Want to see a huge problem in this Country. Look in the mirror. Recessions started in both Japan and the U.S. when Consumer Debt was 130% of their disposable income. The U.S. Economy is 70% driven by consumers. The decline started in the nineties. Consumers propped it up until they were out of money. The Federal Reserve raised interest rates 13 consecutive times which accelerated the Credit demise. Consumers were tapped out. Consumers purchased homes they couldn’t afford and created an artificial demand. The Credit and the Housing bubbles burst. This was the first time in U.S. History that there were two bubbles at once. GWB didn’t put a gun to their heads and force people to live beyond their means. It was the 99% that caused this mess. People who didn’t live beyond their means are doing fine. As long as people remain ignorant of the facts then this Country is doomed , Until people get their head out of the sand and face reality then t and stop parroting this 1% nonsense then we are doomed. The next bubble will be a Debt bubble which is what is referred to in this article. We have about 3 1/2 years until the U,S. faces Bankruptcy at the present trend of 1.9% annual GDP and 1.5 trillion annual deficits. It is probably too late.No outside force has conquered Afghanistan since Alexander the Great and that was 2300 years ago.,There is no Central Government. It is a loose network of tribal chiefs. We have no business there and there is no value to us. We need to exit tomorrow. The entrance into Libya was Unconstitutional. Senators Obama and Biden in 2008 said that it was Unconstitutional if Congress wasn’t consulted unless there was an imminent threat to the U.S.or its citizens. This Administration is destroying the Country. The Senate controlled by the Democrats has shelved 30 pieces of Major Legislation passed by the Republican House and denied the people a voice on the floor of the Senate and you have a large group of clueless people blaming the 1% and the Republicans. We are doomed by Ignorance.

      • mark

        Ted G,

        Stop being a tool for globalist corporate capitalism, which owns and runs this world. They’ve got enough bootlicking supporters already.

      • http://N/A CintiCB

        Rob, The “1%” are NOT the ‘suckers’, they are the ‘suckies’ supplying/supporting the ‘suckers’-mainly the people who have NEVER paid taxes, yet, are getting Social Security money-sometimes their ‘disability’ is addiction (drugs +/o alcohol) or illiteracy. A neighbor gets Soc. Security EVERY MONTH because he fried his brain by sniffing glue. He gets full medical/ dental coverage and over a hundred per month in food stamps (which he tries to sell for money). If it wasn’t for the horrible “1%” you’d have ALOT of drug/liquor starved little ‘victims’. The main thing king Bummer is doing is teaching people that motivation, determination, and success are NOT the ‘way to go’.

      • David A Deal

        Ted G must NOT realize that we are paying fewer taxes than in most of the past especially the wealthy and corporations which is why they both sit on RECORD amounts of wealth. He sounds like a typical Teabagger, anti tax dittohead who doesn’t want to be part of the solution by patriotically paying his taxes for all the things that make our country work. We’ve lost out on HUGE amounts of revenues because of Reagan and Bush tax policies that favored the wealthy and along with military spending out of control that has been the bulk of out debt enhancer. The one thing this article fails to mention is that Obama has been working to wean us out of war, reduce military spending, and restore sane taxation that actually has been proven to work while still playing the game of trying to not look weak on defense (which has really been mostly offensive in reality)!

      • Mark Are Reynolds

        Until you are lily white.

      • Mark Are Reynolds

        David A Deal thinks that the government runs off taxes. HAA. That’s a joke! They run off money created out of thin air on computers and printing presses. Taxes are there to fool you into thinking they need them. I guess it worked in your case, didn’t it David? I’m supposed to do my “patriotic” duty and bend over and take it in the A$$ and have my labor stolen from me? Sounds like common thievery or slavery to me David. Why doesn’t it sound that way to you?

      • PJF

        You mean the government will be taking from 49% of us because the rest don’t pay taxes. David a Deal says we are unpatriotic cause we don’t want to pay taxes, I guess that over 50% of the country is extremely unpatriotic because they don’t pay taxes.

      • phideaux

        “Ted G must NOT realize that we are paying fewer taxes than in most of the past …”

        I have a check stub from the middle of WWII in my posession that has a total tax rate of just under 3% and that includes a special “war tax”.

      • Don_in_DC

        Yeah that 1% is causing all the problems. We should banish them. The bottom 50% that don’t pay taxes can create businesses and pay the majority of the tax burden instead. Since most people seem to think that wealth = criminal and poor = sainthood then we are saving our country to banish them and their money. Hope the sarcasm made it through.

        This was a well laid out article and it cleared up some things in my understanding. It combined several different things that I can’t really see any argument with. A big complaint I have had in all this is how the numbers are manipulated so we can’t even compare now to 50 years ago because inflation and GDP have been changed. This shows it both ways and you can still see it doesn’t look good.

        I’m not in the 1% but I am pulling out. I paid over 50k in taxes last year best I can figure but even that is a guess given how many taxes there are and how many are hidden. Luckily I have enough savings to help if I can get them out of this currency before the real agony starts. I’ll offer the government 20k for the Constitution to take with me though as I think it might be useful to others in the world. The rest of you can keep fighting over which party caused this problem.

      • TIME

        Dear Mr. Deal,

        Here’s the real deal just in case you missed it. { YOU sir are a Corporation!}

        So – your telling us that your sitting on stacks of Cash?

        Hey did you know that – YOU are an Orphan? Yep, – and the De Facto Gov are your parents, JFTR so to are all Americans.
        But hey lets not let the Facts as in the TRUTH get in the way, ok?

        You are corret on one point, the “really Large Corporation” pay little to no TAX. Thats 100% True! Why?
        They along with many of the old wealthy familys both here in the 50 states as well as the French county side and even the City State of London, – by the way the City state of the District of Columbia also Pay NO TAX’S!

        But hey, why let the facts get in the way of a good story.

        Can I get you some more Political Thearter?

        Would you like that “SUPER SIZED” for the long show?

        It’s a Patriotic duty to pay TRIBUTE to the Crown of Englands Royal family? Really? Who said so, come on now David spill it, tell me why that is?
        Why is it that the IRS collects TAX money to give to the Royals, who give you back a small % through the IMF, by way of the
        United Nations, now come on David spill the beans baby, tell me why
        thats my Patriotic duty?

        Peace and Love Dude…

      • Deerinwater

        Ted G says:
        July 10, 2012 at 8:05 am
        I think you mean the government just keeps taking more from us.

        Stop being a tool for socialism Robert”

        Yea ! you attempt to blame all government now, instead of those who are actually responsible for today’s mess! How convenient for you.

        It never ceases to amaze me how a Conservative can turn “stupid ” into a weapon.

        and it’s more like 7 Trillion dollar then 6 Trillion taking into consideration protracted VA cost and even the 7 Trillion figure is 4 years old.

        This is not “News” but data that has been around for some time now.

        I must confess, at 64, conservatives have taught me a valuable lesson I will never forget.

        Stupid is a powerful weapon!

      • Deerinwater

        Excuse me, I should say “Alleged” Conservatives, not wishing to devalue or diminish the ‘intent” of conservatism by people that don’t understand conservatism is a way we choose to live.

        • Charles Moore

          I have already explained why only an ignorant person blames the 1%.

      • Ted G

        Hey you guys are pretty emotional, get a grip. I never tried to insult you or call you names.
        Its counterproductive and certainly belittles any attempt at honest debate.

        Though I have always had a very low opinion of anyone that uses the term teabagger. Its petty and shows ignorance. BTW why don’t you support the TEA party anyway. Though I am not a member, they as far as I know only support limited and accountable government. And adherance to the US Constitution in practice not just platitudes and professed belief. So, I’d be glad to have that debate. After all the USC and the BOR are in fact the fundamental foundation of this country and the basis of our laws.

        I have no problem with the capitalist system, and why do you? Though I do acknowledge many problems none can be laid at the feet of corporatism either. It is the government that has colluded and corrupted the system.

        And to David who mentioned patriotism I think has a rather myopic view of it, you seem to not even understand what the US Constitution says. Propably never actually read it yourself. I’ll stop complaining about the government when it starts spending on just the things enumerated by the US Constitution.
        And just to educate you David, national defense is one of the primary responsibilities of the Federal Governmemt. You can argue about what we do with our military all you want but you appear to ignore the fact that if your a purest, literally 40% of all the rest of the federal governments spending is essentially UnConstituional.

        Also BTW I claim no party affiliation, I’m just an independant American.
        And though I have my own issues with the Conservative right regarding any attempts at social engineering and/or foisting their version of morals upon the masses. I think that can be contained.
        But I have an even bigger problam with the so called left, who I believe are democrats in name only and have actually been taken over by the socialists and communists.

        Potato Potato…

        You say liberal/progressive
        I say Socialist/commy

        So in conclusion I think the founding documents of this great country are more on my side than yours. But I am willing to be convinced otherwise. Tell me where I’m wrong and why…but do try not to use insults if you make the attempt.

        • macgyver1948

          Ted G… … You said “BTW why don’t you support the TEA party anyway. Though I am not a member, they as far as I know only support limited and accountable government”.
          If you are interested in the truth find it on your own. Everyone who considers joining a group should know the group’s higher and real agendas and they should know who the group was founded by and is being financed. You should know their history and their agenda(s). You have this huge Internet to do that research.

          Get to know the Koch Brothers and their father. Get to know the history behind the John Birch Society. I will not try to influence you but I strongly suggest you do as much research on your own and you might have an answer to your question “ BTW why don’t you support the TEA party anyway”. Get the truth for yourself instead of being told what to believe.

          • Charles Moore

            I gave up on the Political aspect long ago as detailed here earlier. I realized twenty years ago that my only chance for my family to survive was to anticipate Economic trends and maintaining or increasing my standard of living. There had to be certain sacrifices inj the beginning. All of the signs for this financial mess were present from the beginning. The only question was when and how much.
            1. Home values increased 120% between 2000-2007. This is a simple interest of 17% a year. This was an aberration.
            2. Ever since the Federal reserve was established and Interest rates have been raised by them 6 consecutive times there has been some level of recession 90% of the time. The 13 consecutive raises was a guaranty for one.
            3. There were constant warnings about the Debt that was being taken on by consumers. In 2005, there were 5.5 million people that had Credit Card Debt alone of at least $10,000.
            4. The recessions started in both Japan and the U,S when Consumer debt was 130% of consumer disposable income.
            Anybody that claimed that everything was alright up until the last minute were clueless or had an agenda. They are the same people today that are blaming Bush and telling everybody that the Economy is improving. GDP was growing at an annual rate of 3.5% after the claim that the Recession had ended. The figures are given every quarter at an annual rate. The next quarter was 2.5% and the next was 1.9% and recently was reported as 1.5% on an annual basis. Recently I had an Idiot tell me that I was a Liar and that the Economy was growing at 9.4% a year. This Idiot had added up the 3.5, 2.5 , 1,9 and 1.5 for the four quarters. China which has the largest GDP growth isn’t this much. The U.S. is in huge trouble. Greece went Bankrupt when Federal Debt was 130% of GDP . Italy is on the verge at 122%. The finances of Italy was recently downgraded by two notches. It is unclear if this same 130% applies to the U.S. as it did in Europe and with Consumer Debt since we have the printing presses etc. If the 130% does apply then at the present GDP growth and 1.5 trillion annual deficits the U,S will be Bankrupt in 3 1/2 years.

            If the Bush tax cuts and the Payroll tax holiday is allowed to expire on January 1, 2013 then we will have a recession worse than 2008.
            1. The 2% tax holiday alone for the average salary of $45,000 is a $900 tax increase.For both the expiration of the Bush tax cuts and the payroll holiday there is an average $3700 increase in taxes,
            2. The Bottom 10% rate will disappear and become 15%.
            3, The 15% Dividend tax will go as high as 39%. Sixty five percent of Seniors depend on these dividends. They are already squeezed because of low Savings account increases since Bernanke has kept rates at almost zero.
            4. The AMT is back

            Total tax increases for the expiration of both will be $500 Billion dollars. This means that Consumers will have $500 Billion less to spend in an economy that is 70% consumer driven and hasn’t recovered to that level yet. This is just the opposite end of when Consumer Debt was too much in 2007/2008 and there was nothing left to support the Economy. This time there won’t be enough money to support it because of 500 Billion dollars in tax increases. This time it won’t be confined to just those who lived beyond their means. It will be on a National level

            People need to do a search on Bush Tax cuts. Wikipedia has good detail. It cost 2.2 trillion over ten years or 220 Billion a year for those making under 200K a year., It cost 75 Billion a year for those making over $200k a year and the the Administration has verified the 75 billion a year. What they don’t tell you is the 220n Billion a year for those making under 200K. Recently Obama proposed a year extension of those making under 200K , Why only a year? Because it is the shortest time after the November election and he plans on coming after them if re-elected and that doesn’t include Obama Care. I am planning on his re-election. I think he has convinced the Ignorant . clueless and Misinformed and the U,S, is in deep trouble.

      • Thomas

        Do you really believe that you are a part of the 99%? I, for one, am not with you… and my income level is nowhere near the top 1%…. just saying…

      • Ted G

        Well macgyver1948, It seems that it is not I that needs to search harder for the truth eh!
        With all I wrote you latched on the TEA party comment. Does the TEA party strike a nerve for you or is it your political philosophy that it may endanger.
        I fail to see any nefarious goals or motivations coming from the TEA party, perhaps you will enlighten me with something more substantial than empty rhetoric and vacuous propaganda.
        You also tried to paint me as someone uninformed in need of scolding for not seeing your “truth”. Thats a failly obvious ploy to try and dismiss not really me so much but more the TEA party in general. I find that to be a weak position to hold, particularly when your response provided nothing but an attack with no foundation against a patriotic and grass roots movement.
        So come on why don’t you show me more of your patriotism if you can.

        • macgyver1948

          Ted G… Ok, let’s see how we can do this. First of all I do not have a problem with the TEA followers in general. I believe we actually want the same things. Less Government in our lives. There is so much more to that but not for now. I believe we, the followers of TEA and so-called liberals want freedom, liberty and equality for all as the founders built it. Don’t go to whatever your version of entitlements is, I do not mean that either but things like Social Security is earned and not one of those. I don’t want handouts, charity (although I give to them), welfare in any way for me.

          My problem with TEA is with its founders and leadership. They need massive followers to get their real agendas to work and then they might forget about you. They can;t win without massive followers and that is a method used by both good and bad leaderships/government since man began.

          I do not trust the Koch family or their “friends”. You should research the founders and backers of TEA and maybe you too will see how dangerous they are. The founders and financiers of TEA, and groups such as Citizens United, are doing all they do for the benefit and protection of big business. Big Government is in their way because Big Government has agencies in place for our and the planets protections. Those agencies policies are costing the corporations more money and that TEA etc is fighting. As groups such as Citizens United and TEA, at the top, win we lose. I feel agencies such as The EPA should be re-worked but we need them. I also believe the Supreme Court betrayed us with their decision to defend what Citizens United wanted, anonymity in campaign donations and other things. Government is public and ours and we need to know who is buying our “representatives”.

          Do your own research on the Koch Brothers, David and Charles, and see what their family goals are. Research their father and other family members going back to the 1950s and before to understand them. Research the John Birch Society, a TEA predecessor also created with big help from a Koch. You should know the real leadership of any group you might want to join and support.

          The JBS was, as is TEA, all about the Corporations and shrinking Government so they too could do their corporate deeds without concern for the environment, people’s health, etc. It is so their expenses could be way down and their profits up, just like with TEA. See why TEA has purchased so many GOP.

          Why does TEA hate Obama? Could it be because he is black? It could be considering The John Birch Society massively fought against Civil Rights in the 1950′s. Could it be because of Obama’s form of Capitalism differs from their corporate version? It could be considering they hated President Eisenhower was also for fairness for all and his Capitalism was NOT exclusively in favor of the Big corporations. The JBS called Ike a commie for that. The JBS and TEA leadership, the same thing, calls all who will not be as they are and support them exclusively either a commie or a Fascist or UN-American. This is not the American way because we are suppose to allow for differences of points of view and the Founders said that too. We are suppose to respect differing points of view as we would want our own respected. A Golden Rule sort of thing. Otherwise how could America be better than any country, now and from history, whom we seem to not what to be? That goes for religion too by the way.

          I ask that you do your won research. You might just see how much the founders feared Corporations and their huge influencing money. I will give you an opinion I would bet that the founders would, if they could somehow show up here to day and catch up, shoot Romney for saying “Corporations are people” and they would not trust TEA and groups such as Citizens United. I feel they would be pissed at the Supreme Court for their deciding in Citizens United, and the corporations, favor.

          “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” – Thomas Jefferson

          Go to the below links for fun and some insight on what the Founders really feel about Corporations. They were so right for us then and today. Mitt is lying to us with “Corporations are people”. Then do your own research your way to find out what else Mitt is fooling us on and hopefully to see who he is really doing it for. If you hate Obama find someone else to vote for but please do not give this country away to the Corporations with Mitt and any like him. Start with these and then go from there with your own.

          • Charles Moore

            Who are you trying to snow?. You give it away each time you post a comment. Your latest about the Koch brothers is Democrat and Union talking points. The biggest problem right now for States is Unfunded Liabilities Forty nine out of the Fifty States have unfunded pension and benefit Liabilities of over 2 trillion dollars. for the Public Sector. In order for a State to be healthy in this area they must have these Liabilities funded at least 80%. The only State in this category is Wisconsin. Yet the Koch brothers were demonized for supporting Walker as was the Tea Party. There is no way that you can support the Tea Party which stands for “Taxed enough already” and make such comments about the Koch Brothers. You also made an absurd remark earlier about the Buffet rule which you claim to support. The Buffet rule is a scam and a distortion since most of the Income of Buffet are stock dividends which is taxed at a maximum of 15% and the Salary of his Secretary is taxed at 35%. You are either very clueless ot an ideologue who blindly supports the talking points of Obama and the Democrats instead of the facts.

          • macgyver1958

            Charles Moore… WOW. I do not go by what Dems tell me. I go by what I find and some time I do not like what I find about the Dems. As for the Koch Klan and Citizens United, etc, and all those being supported by the very wealthy for only the very wealthy. I have done a lot or research on them and they scare me being a person loving Democracy and liberty for all and that means and includes even the very wealthy.

            What you know about truth and liberty and reality and intelligence couldn’t be seen on a slide by the most powerful microscopes in existence. You can say all you want that I am “… either very clueless ot an ideologue who blindly supports the talking points of Obama and the Democrats instead of the facts” but I know your type, politically and religiously, from many years ago so when you talk I consider the worthless source.

            Say what you want but your words are as empty as your head so who cares, :-))).. You wouldn’t recognize truth if it bit you on your nose because your programmed brain couldn’t allow it…

            Oh, and my latest “…latest about the Koch brothers is Democrat and Union talking points” or for anytime I speak of them. Try again little boy. If you do not like my comments why do you get your little boy mind so worked up about them? Just ignore them if your programming causes you to hate what you are trained not to like and to disagree with. If I am as you say why are I worth bothering with?

          • Jeff

            I think it’s safe to assume that anyone who is actually a recipient of “talking points” from either campaign is probably too busy to communicate with the nutcases on this blog.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Actually there are several on the Right that are enjoyable to chat with. Of course they are the ones who do not resort to name calling and try to tell you “Right” off how dumb we are just because our comments do not agree with theirs. There are many intelligent people on the Right who do enjoy bantering with those of differing views and some do come to this site. There are intelligent conservatives who respect the views of others and that helps to separate the adults from the brats. But then there are those….

          • Charles Moore

            It is a question of facts and not whether one agrees with another. Your buddy Jeffie has made absurd comment which he can’t back up so he just hides and refuses to respond to the. You are so clueless that you make comments about the Buffet rule which is a distortion and a scam. Then you parrot the views by your Democrats and the Unions about the Koch Brothers who supported the only State in the Union that is healthy enough to support Liabilities for the Public sector. What names would you and Jeffie use for yourselves? Perhaps Coward, clueless or hypocrite. You name it

          • Jeff

            Yes, I’m in hiding. Actually, I prefer to communicate with people a little less rigid and dogmatic. i have been around a long time and have spoken with many intelligent people who agree with me; I don’t need to speak with arrogant, insulting creeps.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore… You only continue to repeat your self like a broken record but you had nothing to listen to from the first time. Sorry Charlie but you are truly an inane drone…

          • Charles Moore

            The only drone here is you. You have hid your head in the sand. It must be pretty difficult for you to drink Kool-Aid while your head is buried in the sand. You have parroted the nonsense of the so called Buffet Rule. I have given the details and you don’t even have the Integrity to admit that you were duped and are clueless. Don’t worry about it. POTUS Obama will be re-elected. You are merely one in 60% that believes this nonsense. You won’t be ready for the result. Enjoy the Soup lines if there is any left.

          • macgyver1948

            Charlie Moore…. I wouldn’t know since I do not drink Kool-Aid, as you seem to claim I do. It very much seems you are in an endless program loop since you repeat yourself for the many who disagree with you. Sorry Charlie…. Go back to sleep… :-)))…

          • Charles Moore

            You seem to think that I care about your failures. I explained why the Buffet rule is a scam and a falsehood. You don’t even have the Integrity to admit that you were duped. Republicans. Democrats,Liberals, Conservatives and the Tea Party are merely labels. Polls claim that 60% or 6 out of 10 people believe in the Buffet Rule. I have explained why it is a scam and a falsehood. The sixty percent has to include both Democrats and Republicans since only one Party doesn’t make up 60 percent. This is merely a symptom of why this Country is finished Economically.
            1. If Obama is re-elected and I think there is a good chance of it since a majority of people are duped and clueless then the present trend of 1.5% GDP growth and the 1.5 trillion dollar deficits means the U.S will be Bankrupt in 3 1/2 years. Possibly sooner as Obama can’t run for Re-election again and he will be much worse. Of course. it also depends on the make-up of Congress.
            2. If Romney is elected and there is a Republican Congress then we will et an extension of the Economic Collapse.Right now the Republican House has passed over 30 pieces of Major Legislation and the Senate controlled by the Democrats has shelved all of them and not allowed an up or down vote so the people are denied a vote on the Senate floor.

            I doubt that the Republicans or at least enough of them will have the guts to make the necessary changes that will prevent the eventual collapse of the Economy and the Bankruptcy of the United States . The Democrats in the Senate have stated that if the Republicans insist on extending tax cuts for those making over 200K and families making over 250K that nthey will not approve any tax cuts and will allow the Country to go into Recession. How anybody can defend a Party that threatens to drive the Country into Recession is beyond me but that just demonstrates the height of Ignorance and being clueless.

            So the scenario isn’t “IF” but when and to what degree. I am prepared for the worst. If I knew that it was the worst scenario then I could put all my eggs in one basket and do extremely well. So I have to cover all bases and just like 2008 will only profit by say 40%..The ideal situation for me would be that Obama is re-elected and the Democrats take control of both the House and the Senate.

          • Charles Moore

            Here are several reasons “Not” to vote for Mitt Romney

            1.Been married to one woman his entire life and has been faithful to her including her bouts with MS and Breast Cancer
            2. Highly Intelligent. Graduated from Harvard Law School and Harvard Business school “cum laude” and “HIS ACADEMIC RECORDS ARE NOT SEALED<
            3. Doesn't Drink Alcohol and has never done drugs
            4.Represents the America of yesterday when people believed in God, went to Church and worked hard.
            5. We need to be afraid that he's a Mormon. Mormons are that strange Religion that teaches members to be patriotic, fiscally responsible, charitable and honest etc unlike the rhetoric of Jeremiah Wright.
            6. Has a family of five great sons . None of them have Police records. But then they were raised by a stay at home Mom and that choice has prompted Americas' scorn.
            7. And we must not forget that because of his wealth that he can't relate to ordinary Americans. That is because he made that money himself as opposed to marrying it or inheriting it from Dad. Mitt Romney didn't understand that actually working at a job and earning your own money made one un-relatable and offensive to other Americans.

          • Jeff

            Romney is not exactly Horatio Alger. He grew up rich and he’s gotten richer, but he didn’t invent anything. He’s hardly Steve Jobs. He took advantage of the favorable tax treatment of debt financing. Bain made most of its money by loading vulnerable companies with debt and walking away with a lot of it, leaving the company in even worse shape than before. Now, Bain also did some venture capital deals that worked out like Staples, but their bread and butter was the “vulture” model where they got their exorbitant “fees” even where it was obvious the company couldn’t afford to pay them. Workers’ careers and pensions disappeared, while Romney made millions. I wouldn’t nominate him for sainthood just yet.

          • macgyver1948

            Really, you “wouldn’t nominate him for sainthood”? I am in no way Catholic nor do I believe in saints but of what I know of the Catholic Church’s requirements to even be nominated I seriously doubt Mitt would in any way fit. He would be “Bain”ed by the church.

            Thanks Jeff, I enjoyed your post.

          • Charles Moore

            Then Re-elect Obama.

          • macgyver1948

            Charlie… Obama is not the best president we have had but of the choices today there is no one running who could come close. And thanks for your advice, I will vote for him, :-)))

          • Charles Moore

            I knew it and told you so . You are a prime example of his talking points and a refusal to acknowledge the evidence. While I disagree with Romney being the best choice over all we have a Financial catastrophe and worse to come. Romney is head above shoulders in this area. The fact that you are clueless about even the Buffet rule even after being pointed to the evidence proves your ignorance for whatever reason. The problem now is whether enough ignorant people besides yourself will go to the Polls and also vote for Obama and give me my best scenario for profit.

          • JOSEPH FOSTER

            I agree well said.

          • JOSEPH FOSTER

            Well said my friend. Both of our polotcial parties are corrupt. There will be nochange in US policies the polotcins in Washington no loner serve the Amercian people. They serve special interest group that fund their polotcila campagin with mega bucks.

          • Jeff

            I agree. Big business is far too influential with democrats. But that’s far from saying the parties are the same. Big business completely owns the Republicans. They won’t even consider anything not approved by their corporate paymasters.

          • Charles Moore

            How naive and gullible. Romney is much richer then his father. What difference is there whether Romney got any start up money from his father or such government entities such as the Small Business Administration? One if the biggest differences is that it “Was NOT TAXPAYER MONEY”. If Romney would have failed then it was taxpayer money unlike Solyndra where not only 1/2 Billion dollars was invested in a company that was the height of Stupidity as the Chinese have been flooding the U.S. with cheap solar panel bu put Investors ahead of taxpayers in any recovery in the Bankruptcy. Apparently this is alright with you. You guys are part of the problem.

          • Jeff

            So your “solution” would be to leave the entire solar panel market to the Chinese because they are willing to back their companies in new ventures. We should just stick our heads in the sand and pray to the ghost of Adam Smith? The modern world may require a new approach without you wingnuts screaming “socialist” every time the government tries to do something proactive!

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Maybe you remember Koch ran major anti-Solar Energy campaigns with advertising and other methods. Koch is huge OIL, among other things. Koch seems to be against any alternative energy industry who might give Huge OIL some competition.

            This is nothing new. Big industrialists have used their huge money and clout with the government so often to kill competition. You might not believe why marijuana was really made illegal inn the first place. Very interesting piece of history, :-))).

            That was for your response to Charlie and because of Charlie’s post I want to say something.

            There is not a damn thing wrong with getting start-up money for your own stuff from your dad or through the Small Business Admin. But we get so out of touch when we say “Go ask your parents (speaking to the middle and lower class) for start up capital” when we should know most of our moms and pops would have that kind of money. Romney used Jimmy Johns as an example of small business success and The Jimmy John’s dad staked him but I am not sure Romney mentioned that part but it doesn’t matter. The point is Romney is so out of touch with us he doesn’t realize so many of our parents cannot afford to stake us. Romney dad may not have been as wealthy as Mitt but he had enough to stake Mitt.

            All this points to the fact that Obama was so right when he said the other day that no one really becomes successful on their own, we all get help along the way. Root is just a trouble maker.

          • Jeff

            By “staking” him I assume you mean sending him to the best schools w/o worry about the expense, because Romney didn’t have to put up any money to start Bain Capital. He had a guarantee that if the firm failed, he could go back to his cushy salary. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but don’t mistake Romney for some enterprising capitalist who lays it all on the line for his dream. Romney always played with house money.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Stakes, when they come, come from anywhere, not only “dad”. Obama said we get help along the way but I have a feeling Romney got more help than most who are successful. I’m not “mistake Romney for some enterprising capitalist who lays it all on the line for his dream. Romney always played with house money”. I am wondering what kind of deal Mitt made with Koch for their huge money for his campaign…

          • Charles Moore

            Solar is a joke. I can remember when Solar first came in the picture. To install Solar panels on the roof of a House cost $50,000. All one had to do was divide their average monthly electrical cost into $50,000 to get the number of months that it would cost to recover your investment. Even the extreme advocates of it admit that it will supply less than 10 % of Electrical needs over the next ten years. The Chinese have been flooding the Solar Panel Market very cheaply. Putting over a half a Billion dollars of tax payer money into Solyndra under these circumstances is Stupid. Subordinating the taxpayers to Investors for recovery of Funds is Criminal.

            Recently it was announced that forty nine of the fifty States have unfunded pension liabilities and benefits of over 2 trillion dollars. In order to be considered Healthy in this regard a State must have at least 80% of these Liabilities covered. The only State in this position is Wisconsin. Shame on the Koch Bros. for supporting the Governor of Wisconsin.

          • Jeff

            Your grandfather likely said the same thing about the telephone and the automobile.

          • Charles Moore

            No I have invested for over thirty years. Take a look at the Solar stocks on the Stock Market. Anybody with even a basic understanding of Economics knows that U.S. Solar stocks are a bad investment for the reasons mentioned. I am also finished with you on this Subject.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore…. This is a hefty piece of sarcasm, your “… reasons NOT to vote for Romney”. Actually I do not care if he graduated “cum laude” or how loudly he cums. Every time I hear the man speak I hear a Koch voice “come” out of his mouth.

            Who cares if he never before “done” drugs? What matters is that he doesn’t now. Nothing wrong with alcohol if you do not let it control you so that too is wasted sarcasm.

            You # 4.Represents the America of yesterday when people believed in God, went to Church and worked hard”. As though he is the only one who believes in “America of Yesterday” and in God. Charlie you are again wasting space.

            Your “5. We need to be afraid that he’s a Mormon“. Why should anyone be afraid of Mormons unless they force their views on others. Now I remember a couple of news articles from last year where Mormons were accused of sneaking into Funeral Parlors, seminaries and whatever and performed unpatriotic, UN-Constitutional and against federal laws, maybe also against many local laws. What they were accused of was performing baptisms of sorts on Jewish deceased. If that is true they, for those who get caught doing it, deserve to be a general resident in Leavenworth Prison for a few years. I wonder if your Mitt would approve, and even more, if he would do those horrific things if he was told by a Mormon superior to do them.

            In you # 6 “But then they were raised by a stay at home Mom and that choice has prompted Americas’ scorn”. WOW,,, oh Charlie…. It was not that she was a stay home Mom which promoted American Scorn, as you say. It was her pompous attitude toward the non-wealthy Moms that promoted it. More on that but who cares.

            Your “7. And we must not forget that because of his wealth that he can’t relate to ordinary Americans. Oh wow there to Charlie…. It is not because of his wealth, whoever he made it, that he can’t or won’t or just plain isn’t “relating” to the rest of us. He either doesn’t know how or he doesn’t care. He is of the wealthy now and he must do the Koch thing and that includes not “relating” to the UN-wealthy.

            You end with “Mitt Romney didn’t understand that actually working at a job and earning your own money made one un-relatable and offensive to other Americans”.

            Well, I thank you for your vast sarcastic opinion and for allowing me to share my opinion. But who anywhere, in your sarcastic or otherwise opinion, would really believe “working at a job and earning your own money made one un-relatable and offensive to other Americans”? Sarcasm, to really work, has to be somewhat intelligently presented and honorable… Sorry Charlie, most people on the left do not believe that…. :-))

          • Charles Moore

            The only one wasting space her is you. You don’t even have the Integrity to admit you are wrong regarding your absurd comments. I am surprised to note that you were intelligent enough to recognize my points about Romney being Sarcastic.

            Let me repeat. This Country is finished. Depending on who is elected it is either within the next 3 1/2 years or the next five or six years. Personally I am for Obama being re-elected etc and having to happen sooner thereby ensuring that it happens in my life time so I cam make the profits and enjoy it that much more.You are a clown that keeps repeating yourself and rambling on and parroting talking points and falsehoods. I could care less.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore… LOL… You said of me I “…don’t even have the Integrity to admit you are wrong regarding your absurd comments”.

            How is it an integrity issue for not admitting I was wrong when I do not believe I was wrong. Do you even know what ethics are? I would be lying if I agreed with you and that would be an integrity concern, and perhaps credibility too.

            I won’t continue to quote you now in this post but often I see you use other people’s wording to fight back and I do not mean as quotes from them. Sorry Charlie, you have been left behind again..

            Oh. it sounds like you are wishing the country goes down in your life time. You are such a patriot. :-))).

          • Moester

            I hope the end of the world is near. I’ve had enough of this world. Tired of being coitus starved. Tired of cannabis being illegal.Tired of this vile world. Bring it on man.

          • Charles Moore

            Who said it was the end of the World. A Recession or Bankruptcy is no the end of the World. It might seem that way if you are not prepared for it.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore…. You gave your “opinion” on the Buffet Rule, nothing more. I always respect other peoples opinion, even vastly differing ones, but when they ram their OPINIONS down other peoples throats, as you do, they are not only no longer opinion but they deserve no respect.

            I wrote and published my opinion of the Buffet Rule, as an almost 1000 word blog, on Huffingtonpost and it was taken by those on the Right who disagree with respect and with many who agreed also with respect. HP liked it or they wouldn’t have published it. That is how we learn, by listening to differing opinions, and we do not have to agree – ever. It was only my opinion of the Buffet Rule, not a “you must obey or you are stupid” piece of work as you do here to many who will not say what you want to hear.

            All the rest of what you posted to me is also only your opinion with your slant….

          • Charles Moore

            My opinion on the Buffet rule????? It is not an opinion. It s a fact. I have been doing taxes for years. The Secretary of Buffet makes 400K a year in Salary. This also puts her in the top 1% that your idol Obama wants to tax. This is a joke in itself. Do a search onm the “Bush Tax cuts”. It cost 2.,2 trillion over ten years or 220 Billion a year to extend them for those making under 200K a year. It cost 750 Billion over ten years or 75 Billion a year to extend them for those making over 200K a year. It costs three times much to extend them for those making under 200K. Just why do you think Obama only wants to extend it for those making under 200K for only one year? This s where the Money s located and he is coming after them after he is re-elected and doesn’t have to run for Re-election. Meanwhile the Senate Democrats are threatening to drive the Country into Recession of they don’t get their way. Back to the Buffet Rule. The IRS at this moment has a maximum of a 15% tax on Long term Capital Gains and a 15% Maximum tax on Stock Dividends. This is not opinion. It is fact. Look it up. If you can’t find another 5th grader to help you then let me know.

        • Charles Moore

          He has shown his true motives with absurd comments on the Buffet Rule and the Koch brothers which are the talking points of Obama and the Democrats and are outright lies and distortions. Anybody that has bought this 1% nonsense is also clueless. We are in this Financial mess because people lived beyond their means. We had a Consumer./Credit bubble and a Housing bubble. If one doesn’t understand bubbles then they need to do a search on the “South seas bubble” and the ” Tulip mania ” to name a few. The next bubble will be the Federal Debt bubble.It hasn’t occurred yet but is getting there. If the historical ratio of 130% of Federal Debt to GDP that has happened in other Countries going Bankrupt then the U.S. will reach that point at present GDP growth rate of 1.5% and annual deficits of 1.5 trillion within 3 1/2 years. I had a class in College many years ago. The Professor used the following to illustrate Socialism and take a vote on it. Passing grades would remain at 70%.,however, everybody would pass and get a 70%. The person with a grade average of 90% would have to give 20% to a person making 50% etc so everybody would have 70%. Of course, the students only making 50% would do even less as they would pass anyway. The students spending hours of study would study less as they would probably only get 70% anyway. The system wold break down and the only way to keep it going would be to take grades from the next class etc. Pretty soon the U.S., will run out other peoples’ money etc. This is the choice in November.

          • macgyver1948

            Charlie, this is for Ted G, an for your sensitive little mind too if you like…. Ted. You asked “Does the TEA party strike a nerve for you or is it your political philosophy that it may endanger?” It is not my political philosophy that is in danger, Ted. With all I have learned about Koch and the real focus behind TEA and their other name, The John Birch Society since the 1950s, they scare me for my sense of freedom and liberty. I am not of the huge corporations that Koch would support so they scare me. That is the “nerve” that they adversely strike, my sense of Americanism which is so much more in line with the Founders thinking. Yeah, the Founders feared Corporations and with what we know since before the US Revolutionary War until now it should scare all of us who are of the Koch Klan… There is a reason I use the word “Klan”. If you guys of TEA research their history you might know what I mean. Just a small hint. The JBS through a lot of money into fighting against The Civil Rights Movement in the 1960′s. When JFK was killed they cheered…

            They are the main money and the power and the main creators of TEA, as their forbearer was for the John Birch Society. Since the last time a Koch ran for office and lost they decided it would be better for them to buy the government and control it from the outside. They own so much of the GOP in congress now. That is why I cannot trust the GOP in either house.

            Oh Charlie… I do agree with you that one of the causes of the last bubble burst was caused by people living way above their means. But those unsuspecting who bought houses that way had some help from their “friends” the Banks after the Government told the banks to Sell to all you can no matter what, just sell if it is possible. Anyone who still believes the banks are our friends I have to wonder if there is any hope for them at all. So the blame for the housing burst has to be shared by the banks, the government and those people who wanted a house more than they wanted to understand what the contract will deal out to them. It was a 3-part collaboration. I bought two houses in my time over the years and one bank rep was losing patience with me when I took the damn time to read the contract and call him on some things. And that was even with the VA backing me. Living over our means is always a major risk in anything, not just for a house.

            Sorry Charlie, I don’t usually mean to agree with you but there might be a time I will…. And I agree with your prof to to a degree. Without incentive and with out a reason to try why put out the effort? Maybe because we have to create our own incentive considering the cards we were dealt. I would not depend on our Government unless I really had to. I read that example you mention from your prof a few years ago. That system would break down eventually but it is more Communism than what we have here. I would fight it. And the stated situation would be only for those on welfare and not the rest of us… It was just a classroom project primarily but to illustrate a point of Socialism but we do not have Socialism here to that extent and Obama doesn’t want it. Read all Obama’s words and not just the diet version we get from the Right.

          • Charles Moore

            Talk about little minds. The Banks did not cause the crash. The recessions started in both Japan and the U,S, when Consumer Debt was 130% of consumer disposable income.It was accelerated in the U.S. because the Federal Reserve increased interest rates 13 consecutive times. If you don’t know how the Fed restricts Credit or makes it available then you need to look it up. I stated at the time that ever since the Fed was established that anytime the Fed raised rates 6 consecutive times that 90% of the time there had been some level of Recession. Raising it 13 times guaranteed it and I have always wondered how Bernanke could not be aware of it. I think it was deliberate but Bernanke underestimated the damage. GWB and Paulson had the right idea. The idea was to get Credit into the Economy immediately to stop the bleeding. It had to be approved by the Democrats who had taken control of both Houses of Congress on January 3, 2007.TARP was approved . The Democrats did no attach any conditions to the Funds to the Banks. As if that wasn’t bad enough they gave the Money to the U.S. Treasury to prioritize and disburse and since the argument was that Paulson and Bush would be leaving Office soon and continuity was desired the Funds were given to an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury to prioritize and disburse, He was also a former executive of Goldman Sachs. The Banks took the money and instead of using it to make Credit more Liquid and stop the bleeding they used the Funds to advance their own assets and as dividends to Stock holders etc. The Sub primes and other exotic forms of Finances were then discovered which made it even worse. The environment for the Housing Crisis was created by the Democrats when they took control of Congress on January 3, 2007 when they increased the percentage of no money down etc through their oversight of Fannie and Freddie to 65%, The Democrats were needed to approve the Bailout and by not establishing conditions for the Funds they allowed the Banks to not plug the Credit Crisis. Who knows how much longer things would have gone on without the Fed raising rates 13 consecutive times and cutting off credit?I have other problems with Bush but not this one. It took GWB 8 years to add 4 trillion to the National Debt and the last two years Congress was controlled by the Democrats, It took the Obama Administration 3 1/2 years to add 5 trillion which is almost as much as all the Presidents before him. The next bubble will be the Federal Debt Bubble and things will be much worse than 2008. The TEA party is to little too late. The Voters have been returning 90% of the Incumbents to Congress for more than 20 years, There have been several grass roots organizations that have tried to stop it for over 20 years. After at least 20 years of Apathy a much larger group of people woke up up and achieved an organization that was able to go National. These people woke up only because of FEAR. The fear that their standard of living was eroding and that it could cease to exist. They are too focused on taxes and the Debt which is great but most have no idea of how we got there or other means that are needed to fix it. We are now in the 2nd Generation of Ignorance and Naivety due to brain washing and dumbing down. I was born in California. I went to school and College there when it was the best if not one of three in Education in the Nation,The California Statewide Achievement test was a model for the rest of the nation.If you planned on going to College then you had to be an Academic major,. You had to take and pass 4 years of English, One year of Latin and two years of a Foreign Language, You had to take three years of Mathematics and two had to be Algebra and Geometry, California is one of the worst, My Younger brother has two sons. He is a graduate of VMI. Both his sons are home schooled. They both graduated from the University of Texas at Austin two years ago with Honors. One has a degree in Chinese and Japanese. He worked a year in China as a translator on a Wind Turbine project for several months.. he had a perfect score on the LSAT and is now attending the University of Chicago Law school on a full scholarship. The Public schools are a disaster and Colleges are of a Liberal bias, You can label them in any way. I call them talking points ans they are exclusively the chatter of the Democrats and/or the Unions.

    • nc

      Michael J. how do think the “other group”, the Ron Paul people, are going to get the cat back in the bag if his own party(R) only let him let look at the bag every four years! He neither gets to hold it nor stuff it! He is a second string Republican!! But that is HIS choice!His good ideas like returning the troops to US soil, not being held hostage by Isreali policy, and reduction in military spending are closer to Obama policy than Karl Rove policy!

      • Power To The People

        nc, stop being a tool for the Obumer disaster! Bush and Obumer have collectively…with the help of the tools in Congress sunk the US into a debt spiral that is a monster on a feeding frenzy. Politics aside, stupid power hungry people have ruined this nation along with the suckers in the 98% as well as the suckers in the upper 1%. There is plenty of blame to go around for the which leeches deserve more blame for ever growing handouts.

      • FreedomFighter

        Obama Now Controls All Communications Via Executive Order

        By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:

        Section 1. Policy. The Federal Government must have the ability to communicate at all times and under all circumstances to carry out its most critical and time sensitive missions. Survivable, resilient, enduring, and effective communications, both domestic and international, are essential to enable the executive branch to communicate within itself and with: the legislative and judicial branches; State, local, territorial, and tribal governments; private sector entities; and the public, allies, and other nations. Such communications must be possible under all circumstances to ensure national security, effectively manage emergencies, and improve national resilience. The views of all levels of government, the private and nonprofit sectors, and the public must inform the development of national security and emergency preparedness (NS/EP) communications policies, programs, and capabilities.

        Coming soon communication takeover — hello George Orwell

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Michael J.

        nc asks,
        “how do think the “other group”, the Ron Paul people, are going to get the cat back in the bag”

        Simple, shine a light on Michelle’s ineligible husband’s true origins, Muslim Brotherhood affiliations and Cloward/Piven tactics, which would result in the re-setting of the clock back to Jan, 2009. Thus un-doing every scrap of legislation, every executive order we’ve been tortured with since this waking nightmare came on the scene. Barely a month after every business both small and large realized what they were now faced with, the employment market was shedding 700,000 jobs a month in preparation for the coming fiscal horrors about to be inflicted by the Chicago Kenyan, Muslim Mobster.

        Unbalanced by blind adoration, how deep will you plunge into the pit before smelling the feces squishing up between your toes?

        Vexed by his spell, are you content with eventually drowning in the
        water that he walks on?

      • JeffH

        Polly the Repeating Parrot(nc) again says baaarrraaaccckkkk!

    • hawkeye10

      THE DOOMSDAY FACTOR TO INDUSTRIAL ECONOMICS THREATENIN​G AMERICA FOR JULY 4, 2012! From Erasmus Of America II Thessalonians 2:12, “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

      “If we don’t restore the minerals and trace elements to the soil that grows our food, we’ll see a plague of degenerate diseases by the end of the century.” Dr. George Earp-Thomas, medical research scientist (1948). He provoked the legal wrath of Wash., D.C. in the late 1930′s when he cured people of cancer by feeding them food raised with all the nutrition in it that nature had intended for that food for human good health. In fact, it was reported that Wash., D.C. burned down his lab to put him out of business in research work on cancer. They had already boasted they would find a way to bankrupt him and put him out of business in cancer research. When Dr. Max Gerson fled Austria due to the Nazis and came to America to continue his research work on curing people of deadly ailments by correct diet, he was treated as an archcriminal by Wash., D.C. for wanting to cure cancer patients by correct diet. In Switzerland, he had cured nearly 100% of TB patients by diet alone and had done this with hundreds of patients at a Swiss hospital. When he wanted to work with cancer patients in America with the same approach as had created the highest cure rate against TB as ever seen in medical history, he also met the legal wrath of Wash., D.C. for daring to want to cure cancer patients by diet alone. In the end, he was allowed to work with officially terminal cancer patients already sent home to die by the medical field and of these, he had a high cure rate of terminal cancer patients. Some of these later testified before a Congressional committee to allow Dr. Max Gerson to work with all cancer patients, not just the terminal cancer patients, but the members of Congress already bought and paid for by powerful interests never lifted a finger to give him legal authority to work with non-terminal cancer patients.
      Dr. Lorraine Day on TBN in 2007 released the official medical figures indicating that cancer was growing so fast among the American people that by 2020 100% of all Americans were medically predicted would have cancer or had had cancer by 2020 which is just 8 years ahead in our future. I give these medical examples to show that Wash., D.C. is totally corrupt and cares nothing about the American people at all. The game in Wash., D.C. is ego, money, perverted sex, power, drugs, parties, cons on the American people where they laugh at the American people dumb enough to believe everything they tell the American people, cooperation of the morally corrupt and dishonest national media covering all they can for all the corruptionand high treason going on in Wash., D.C. in the high power circles of Wash., D.C. When I cured by natural means different forms of cancer in my body maybe12 years ago or earlier, Wash., D.C. threatened sources I was using to give people the same supplies I used to cure myself of cancer in my body. I got rid of a tumor on my arm in 4 days flat and left no scar! That provoked the wrath of Wash., D.C. I removed a large tumor on my face in 4 days and agan left no scar. This provoked the wrath of Wash., D.C. I cured advanced colon cancer in myself in 7 days flat with all the cancer passing out of my body on the 7th day and never had colon cancer return. This provoked the wrath of Wash., D.C. When I met the head of a cancer research foundation in America, he indicated the American medical field was not interested in cancer cures like these and Wash., D.C. would never allow such natural methods to cure cancer to become legal in America.
      Let me step powerfully on the toes of the power elite traitors in Wash., D.C. The secret to curing any ailment is correct the root cause of the ailment and not attack the symptoms of the ailments. The profits in corrupt national medicine is attack the symptoms, not the root cause of any ailment. My healing answers to cancer could be done for $100 or less. But to “fight” but not cure cancer can easily cost the federal government through Obamacare or other federal medical programs maybe $300,000 to $450,000 to “fight” but not cure cancer in you! Trace the money trail! The giant profits in medicine are to “fight” but not cure deadly threats like cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Among many evils in Obamacare is it would totally crush any natural cures for ailments in America and all your approved federal medical programs to try and “cure” you would all be witchdoctor medicine the same as Louis Pasteur had to fight in Europe when the medical doctors in France wanted him arrested and put into prison for daring to claim such things existed as germs and they caused all these terrible diseases of the world. America is like pre-Louis Pasture medicine, only while they admit to the existence of germs now, they still have numerous ways to wiggle around cures that so often work against diseases that will kill off huge numbers of mankind otherwise.
      To shoot down federal psychological warfare and propaganda that I am a fool and not that smart, my mother was once rated by I.Q. test to be the most brilliant child in American history up to her time and entered a state university without prior formal education after learning how to read and write from her grandmother. She was a child actress and had no time for formal schooling. My own I.Q. was once officially tested in Wash., D.C. and in shock they told me that I had scored an official I.Q. score of “beyond scientific measurement” and one of the two highest ever tested in Wash., D.C. While I personally believe that common sense properly used is a higher form of intelligence than official academic intelligence, I mention the above because they are too sold on the concept that only high academic I.Q. is genius. Well, Thomas Edison with a huge amount of common sense and only a few months of formal education in his life skyrocketed past the engineers of America with his thousand or so inventions he released in America. My mother was an academic genius and my father was a genius in common sense. I respect both forms of genius and I learned much in how to think from both my parents, not just one side. And to illustrate a deadly fallacy in American educational concepts today, if you take an idiot and educate him, what do you get? An educated idiot. I am forced to say that when formal education practices a hgh level of censorship of the truth and important answers so education can become brainwashing of the gullible instead of sound education of the bright in America. With sound education, the prior idiot or fool can be taught sound methods of thinking and potentially broken of having a miseducated or non-educated mind in reality. As some teachers have shown, even retarded children skillfully educated have passed in test results ordinary students taught by usual methods in school. The usual result if some teacher causes retarded children to skyrocket past in test results ordinary students, the teacher usually gets fired and blackballed from being allowed to be a teacher after that after being too successful in teaching her or his students how to soundly think and use their brains correctly. I spent most of my life in elite private schools and a little in public schools. Let me get control of American education and all students will get a super, quality sound education. They will learn how to think powerfully and soundly. And America will skyrocket with potentially almost the whole nation becoming brilliant to utter geniuses in comparison to before. They can defend their belief in God or atheism with brains, not as stupid brains who cannot think worth a hill of beans or make a credible defense for what they believe in to govern their lives. I even respect my critics or enemies if they do it intelligently. I just hate for stupidity to be passed off as intelligence. But usually with seriously intelligent people, I will win them over partially or else totally to my side. By the same token, if they raise a good enough point, I will give them credit and maybe the subject is more complex than a simple explanation at first glance. But with truly intelligent people, I find the common theme so much of the time that all of us are dedicated to the truth and in our discussions, we will find the real truths and both sides may end up with some different conclusions than started with on either side. I always respect even honest disagreement from intelligent people and we sharpen our minds both sides of debates over important issues.
      Fuel Economy Of The Gasoline Engine, edited by D. R. Blackmore and A. Thomas, A Halsted Press Book, shows tests by Shell Research Limited, Thornton Research Centre, Chester, United Kindgom. They tell how they got extremely high gas mileage on standard commercial cars. For example, a modified 1947 Studebaker achieved 149.95 mile/US gal. in the 1949 Wood River competition, a 1959 Fiat 600 achieved 244.35 mile/us gal. in the 1968 Wood River competition, and among others a modified 1959 Opel achieved 376.59 mile/us gallon in the 1973 Wood River competition. Under corrupt, treasonable Washington policy, federal sources made sure that America would never get even remotely high gas mileage on your cars like this. Only when my Omni Law is passed in 2012 and I intend to withdraw this proposed law from America if the American people do not care to save America now in 2012, I will through the Omni Law see that it is now legal under Washington law to start pushing up serious high gas mileage on American cars. Also, if oil countries try a new price war on oil to hurt the American economy, I will bring out a new answer on car fuel that can make oil obsolete to use on cars. In engineering school, they thought I was a genius in engineering and allowed me to do my engineering studies at one week of engineering studies every day and I kept an A average in engineering while doing this. Also, before he died, Charles Kettering who had once been head of reserach for General Motors and later President of General Motors reviewed 920 of my inventive concepts I had come up with in 2 weeks and he wrote that he ratedme as potentially the most brilliant inventive genius that would ever rise in American history. He wrote among other things I had independently come up with the top secret guidance system for American ICBM’s. If Wash., D.C. had not savagely fought me everytime I wanted to establish a new industry for America, I would have likely given America up to 2,000 new industries in America and America
      would be such a colossal industrial giant now as would leave even China in amazed shock over how huge the American economy had become nearly overnight. The Omni Law will allow me to begin a great new industrial birth of America and skyrocket America into its greatest industrial age in history. Don’t defeat the passage of my Omni Law in 2012 because the American people refuse to fight to give the American economy a giant rebirh by passage of the Omni Law in 2012. And I will to help save mankind from the Doomsday Factor to Industrial Economics which threatens the survival of America now but also the entire world. If not passed in 2012, I may be forced to teach my industrial economics to another nation instead and they will wildly skrocket past America in that case. I don’t want to do this, but for moral reasons my hand will shortly be forced if the American people do not even care about their future as a nation and economy or not. My Omni Law Report (4 pages) can be seen and copied from Nesara News (June archive listing, 2012) and some of my other reports on economics also in the June listing or else the May listing. If stuck, email me and ask for a copy of the Omni Law Report from my national email email address of . When the serious financial support comes in, I will have a national website to read key economic reports of mine and will have a staff to swiftly answer emails, but I had $525,000 stolen from me by Wash., D.C. so I would not have this staff to service the public at this time. When I asked the Obama Administration for return of my federally stolen $525,000, I had a federal murder attempt attempt on my life, so I got the message loud and clear from Obama that he does not want for me to show America my free enterprise answers that will skyrocket the American economy. I had been written up by a prestigious international organization as “The Einstein of American Economics” after I studied with six of the most brilliant economists of America and Europe including a German economist endorsed by Albert Einstein as teaching the only true economic science in the 20th century. I have this very new, expanded version of economic science heavily using engineering to skyrocket the economic growth of America or other nations or the whole world economy if they want to learn my tricks in economic science.
      The following economic warning from Bob Livingston is a valid warning of eminent economic disaster for America, but far worse for America than even Bob Livingston realizes. If too much hyperinflation hits America too fast and Obama who is incredibly dumb in national economics is still President when this hits, then the Industrial Doomsday Factor to Industrial Economics may be triggered off by moron level economic policies of Obama who understands nothing about national economics. In that case, America may crash into an economic collapse so total as to look like a science fiction horror movie and America end up with 90% to 99% of all the American people dead before it is over. Also, this could easily spread to all the world and maybe the world lucky if 5% of the human race survives the total crash of the world economy. Let me give the economically naive American people a powerful hint. We have a sophisticated division of labor only possible with an effective monetary system in power. Due to large city populations,we cannot survive on a barter system of economics. Try to survive on barter and in the end from 90% to 99% of the American people stand a good chance getting killed in the total economic collapse of America. Then Europe follows. Africa, Latin and Central America, and Asia including China, Japan, and India for example.
      Okay folks, read the following which is a deadly warning to the survival of America as a nation. Back fanatically my Omni Law. See everyone sees it and get all your friends, associates, churches, civic groups, etc . to aggressively back it. And stop tying my hands by being too financially tight to back the correct fight to pass the Omni Law and now. My mailing address is NIFI, P.O. Box 1465, Seneca, SC 29679 . Make any checks, etc. out to NIFI and you can mark for Omni Law Drive as reference. Read my separate God-given right to survival report also listed with Nesara News to see how I plan to later pay you back by treating this money as loans and not contributions. and I will see you are well rewarded financially as Patriots of America. The other report tells how this works. Now read this report below as the end of this report. See that all of America sees this entire report on the Doomsday Factors to Industrial Economics and let us save America from pending economic disaster which could even occur before
      2012 is over. Yours for God and Country of America, Erasmus of America (pen name for now. Will use my regular name when the time is right, but already I figure all Washington intelligence sources know quite clearly who I am. My trademark in intelligence reports was always, “spent eleven calendar years in military academies.”

      Dollar’s Approximate Date with Doom

      The Dollar Is Falling… Inflation Is Out Of Control…
      And The Fed Keeps Printing Money…

      When The Crisis Comes
      … Will Your Family SURVIVE?

      In the next 12 months, an economic “Pearl Harbor” will hit America. I won’t mince words—it’s called hyperinflation, and signs of it are everywhere!
      You know prices are rising rapidly today. But they will explode when hyperinflation hits. Prices could increase 1,000 percent or more within days. And your purchasing power will crater. (You can see the dollar’s dramatic plunge in the chart from the American Institute for Economic Research below.)

      Bread will cost $25 a loaf.

      Hamburger will cost $60 a pound.

      Gas will cost $37 a gallon.

      Can you imagine $500 to fill up your car?

      I know it sounds insane… hard to believe… or downright “unthinkable.” After all, this is America, and nothing like this could ever happen to the dollar.
      But it’s complete BALONEY! The truth is the dollar has a date with DOOM.
      For the first time in history, China and Japan are now planning to trade the Yuan and yen without using U.S. dollars.
      The International Monetary Fund is openly trying to replace the U.S. dollar with Special Drawing Rights (SDR’s) which are a hybrid of the U.S. dollar, the euro, the yen and the British pound… and if China gets their way, the Yuan.
      China has already announced their plan to dump the dollar because they’re worried about U.S. government spending and the Fed’s excessive money printing.
      To add insult to injury, China is quietly purchasing massive amounts of gold in a deliberate attack aimed directly at the dollar.
      These are transformational times we live in… you can feel it!
      Yet the U.S. Government continues to lie to you about inflation. In fact, starting in 1980, they deliberately changed the formula used to calculate the Consumer Price Index (CPI) in an effort to undermine those pesky cost-of-living-increases for Social Security checks.
      It’s no wonder Seniors can no longer afford to make ends meet on Social Security… the government artificially lowered the CPI!
      Today the “official” CPI is about 3 percent. But if you use the “old” 1980 formula, the real CPI is closer to 12 percent. Now that explains your grocery and gas bills.
      And they’re lying about the deficit, too! Last year, the “official” deficit was reported to be a mere $1.3 trillion. Pure Fantasy!
      According to—one of the most reliable monitors of government spending—the true debt is estimated to be in excess of $80 Trillion once all government obligations are factored in.
      So what will Washington do to get out of the crisis? They’ll buy their way out by printing even MORE MONEY, all the while devaluing every dollar you own and triggering a hyperinflation crisis.
      And when that happens, all bets are off…
      Your CDs will be worthless.
      The cash in your wallet… might as well use it for toilet paper.
      Your retirement plan… better hope for a job at Walmart!
      I don’t want to alarm you, but the time to prepare for America’s economic winter is NOW!
      That’s why I just put the finishing touches on an urgent video presentation that will tell you…
      How to recognize the earliest warning signs of a hyperinflation disaster.

      How you can transform your finances from a house of cards into a financial fortress made of stone.

      How to survive the sudden, catastrophic collapse of the dollar.

      And how to guarantee you have unlimited access to the food, medicines and supplies you need to live comfortably no matter what happens.
      I urge you to watch it now. You need the “whole” unvarnished truth you aren’t hearing from anyone else.
      So please, set aside the time right now to watch it… the video is fascinating (albeit alarming), so I guarantee you won’t be bored…
      But no matter whether you watch or not, just know the time to get prepared for America’s impending hyperinflation crisis is NOW, because we will soon pass the point of no return.
      Watch Urgent Video Presentation
      Yours for the truth,
      Bob Livingston, Editor
      The Bob Livingston Letter™
      P.S. If you prefer to read the video transcript, click here to access my Great Recession Crisis Survival Report now.

      • Michael J.

        hawkeye 10,

      • Bimbam

        …and your point is?

    • john

      …..this is the most ABSURD THING i have ever, (x10) read!! pathetic!!

    • Joe Hammond

      It takes 100% of the USA to make this empire work. The 99% do not posess the acumen of leadership nor the conections to run organizations such as J.P. Morgan. But it is also true that the 1% do not have the skills to build the products that are the wealth of the nation such as homes, factories, assembly lines, or change a tire on a car. Together they form an outsanding economic engine. Apart, they are doin nothing more than arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Of all our troubles our empire building attitude along with the mythological idea of “American exceptionalism” has made us the new “Evil Empire”. And this constant need to create wars in order to keep the military-industrial elite flush with government money is taking a toll on the people who are the professional military. Suicides are at an all time high; divorce amoung active military is very high as is the loss of homes and position in society. Without a draft there is no governor to keep the wealthy 1% and its political stooges from starting more wars through the “War Powers Act of 1973 (The War Powers Resolution was disregarded by President Reagan in 1981 by sending military to El Salvador, by President Clinton in 1999, during the bombing campaign in Kosovo, and by President Obama in 2011, when he did not seek congressional approval for the attack on Libyan forces, arguing that the Resolution did not apply to that action, and again when troops entered Pakistan to kill Osama bin Laden. All incidents have had congressional disapproval, but none have had any successful legal actions taken against the president for violations. All presidents since 1973 have declared their belief that the act is unconstitutional.)

      If the wealthy could lose their children to the draft and the war then they may think twice about starting one in Iran (just think what Romney would do if his sons could be drafted and sent to the Iranian front). That would be a part of the answer to the debt, stop the worthless wars!

      • Charles Moore

        More nonsense and Ignorance of the Facts. We are in this Mess because people lived beyond their means. The Recessions started in both Japan and the U.S. when Consumer debt was 130% of consumer disposable income. The U.S Economy is 70% driven by Consumers. The downturn in the Economy actually started in the nineties and was propped up by Consumer Debt. In 2005, there were 5.5 million people who had credit card debt alone of at least $10,000. It had nothing to do with GWB or the elite or the 1%. Only a fool believes in this 99% and 1% crock. People who did not live beyond their means didn’t have any problems even though the Federal Debt was skyrocketing. The Federal Debt will be the next bubble but that is about 3 1/2 years from now. It was a consumer debt/credit bubble. Then there was a Housing bubble. Ignorant people who were too ignorant to balance expenses against income bought homes they couldn’t afford. People that already owned homes and had equity in them could get as much as a 120% loan on that equity. A person has a paid off home worth $100,000. The Idiot gets a $120,000 loan. When the bubble burst and home values go down 40% then this person has a home now worth $60,000 with a $120,000 Loan. it was the bigger fool theory.People that were buying these homes they couldn’t afford and using the equity in their home as a piggy bank live beyond their means thought that there would always be somebody that would pay a higher price. So for the first time in U.S. history there were two bubbles that burst at the same time. The housing and the Consumer Debt bubble. It had nothing to do with GWB unless you are ignorant enough to believe that GWB put a gun to the heads of millions of people and caused them to live beyond their means, It had nothing to do with the elite or the 1%. The Situation was made worse after the fact with Sub Primes but they were not the cause. It was basic economics. Consumers ran out of an economy that is 70% consumer driven. Read up on bubbles such as the South Seas bubble or the Tulip Mania etc. Do yourself a favor and don’t repeat this 1% and elite nonsense front of other people unless they are just as clueless.

        • Jeff

          Do you really believe it was individual homeowners all suddenly deciding to over-borrow on their homes that caused the collapse? What about the banks pushing these loans? What about the complete deregulation of the banks? Credit default swaps? Why do conservatives insist on personal responsibility for the little guy but say “that’s just business” when powerful companies misbehave?

          What about those who were careful but lost their jobs due to the greed of others? Are they at fault as well? We have a problem to solve and pointing fingers backward won’t solve it except to the extent it can inform policy (i.e regulation) going forward.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff…. Although the Housing Bubble burst was a shattered brick in the wall it was by no means all the reason for our economic conditions today. But we should never think of banks as good guys or our friends. I worked for a commercial bank while going to college than after I put in almost 7 years wit thee Federal Reserve Bank Of NY.

            I know when people come into a bank for a loan all of a sudden the loan officers turns dark and becomes as used car salesmen and must do what is necessary to “get the sale”. They do this by showing the “suckers” lengthy legal documents and they, acting and the customers friend, “explain it all as if it were all written with the poor customer’s benefit in mind.

            Balloon mortgages, of different types, were pushed on unsuspecting people because they felt they should trust their friend, the bank. Just listen to the very friendly and concerned bank commercials on TV.

            The old expression “let the buyer beware” should be what people go by when they walk into a bank or a car dealership. Make yourselves aware by reading all the print and if you do not understand anything find someone who deserves your trust to read and explain it to you. So it was partly the house hunters fault but lets be fare about this. Banks are NOT our friends.

            Now onward. You asked “ Credit default swaps? Why do conservatives insist on personal responsibility for the little guy but say “that’s just business” when powerful companies misbehave?”.

            Excellent question. Because the TP/GOP is primarily in business for the benefit and protection of the corporations. Where do the rest of us fit in to the TP/GOP? We do not. I always want to know why when they at the top tell us to tighten our belts they go out to purchase larger belts.

            Then you said “What about those who were careful but lost their jobs due to the greed of others? Are they at fault as well?”.

            Another Excellent question. How could that be? The Tea Party at the top say they converse with God so how could they be wrong? We have heard 3 TP/GOP candidates say God told them to run so where are they now in the race? Honestly, only idiots believe even a majority of the UN-employed are that way because they did it to themselves – “it is their own fault”. Sounds and smells like rotten pizza to me.

            So I risked pointing fingers and now we have to do things differently. I wish I made the follow expression up but I didn’t. There have been the actions of our Government for many decades which brought us to this situation. But “We cannot fix the problems with the same minds which/who created them”.

            We have to stop allowing Corporate monies in Government for Campaigns or in Government agency corrupting those “representatives” and we have to reform government. We have to make the new elected and appointed fear us more about re-electing and appointing them than they hope and pray for campaign contributions now. The Founders knew this to be the case but groups like Citizens United and the Tea Party seem to want us to not remember the real Founders. More finger pointing huh? Well, we have to know about them.

            An example I have been using – “I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.” – Thomas Jefferson

            Thomas Jefferson and others were very much in favor of “Separation Of Corporation And State”. How very wise to this day they were. We need to know more of the Funders, as they really were and not how they are being phonied up to us today.

          • Charles Moore

            I have pretty much covered this. Here is another example. Luxury Automobile manufacturer “X ” decides that everybody ought to be able to own and experience the pleasure of owning a luxury car just like the Democrats who believed that everybody ought to be able to own a House. Luxury car maker X announces that a down payment will not be necessary etc. People that have never been able to afford a luxury car purchase one. Initially company X sells a lot of cars. Then people can’t make the payments etc. Company X ends up with a lot of repossessed cars that are worth less. Who is at fault here. Is it GWB etc?. it is the fault of company x for making it possible but it is primarily the fault of the people who couldn’t afford the luxury car in the first place. If company x made shady deals such as credit default swaps etc then the Loans would be harder to unravel etc. Company X didn’t directly cause the collapse.It was worse in the Housing segment. People that had established homes with Equity could borrow money on the basis of that Equity at 120%. This was a bad decision. The Banks made it possible. It was the fault of the people who used the equity in their homes as a piggy bank to live beyond their means that accelerated the problem. When I purchased my home in 1979 I had to put down at least 15% and my debt payments including my Mortgage couldn’t be more than 25% of my Income. I didn’t make enough money to qualify. I mentioned earlier that I had been investing at least 10% of my income. I needed to sell one of those properties in order to get the down payment etc.The Bank called me a few days later as I was not getting the money for two more weeks. The 2000 Sq foot home cost $40,000. I was putting down $15,000 so a $25,000 loan. The Bank said they couldn’t hold the Interest rate any longer unless I gave then 1% of the Loan ot $250,00 to hold it another 30 days. The Interest Rate was at 10 3/4%. I told the Bank that I would give them $250.00 as Interest rates were going higher. The Loan officer told me that it was up to me but the position of the Bank was that rates weren’t going any higher. By the time I closed rates were at 13% and went higher under Carter.,All Banks aren’t that sharp. There weren’t any such problems when somebody had to put at least 15% down and payments were restricted. People that couldn’t afford a home couldn’t buy one and people that could had skin in the game and protected their Investment. When the rules were changed and prices went up due to an increased artificial demand and went up 120% between 2000-2007 and homes became a Speculation of the bigger fool theory that there would always be somebody to pay a higher price and ceased to be an Investment was the problem. The people that did not live beyond their means had no problem especially the 1% . The largest subsidy in the U,S, Tax code is the mortgage deduction. It is also the most unfair, The taxpayers who can’t afford to buy a home are subsidizing those that can afford to buy a home. Not only that but a second home up to a certain value also can be deducted when at least 40% of people can’t afford it. The Debt Commission formed by Obama recommended abolishing all tax loopholes including the Mortgage deduction but Obama has ignored it.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore … Very nice and you wrote a lot. I can’t respond to everything here because you wrote so much but I will try with some. You do generalize though in your fictitious examples. That can confuse the issues.

            I think the Democrats say it would be nice for everyone to have a chance to own a house. I believe it would be nice to own a luxury car as well but in the private sector we have to go by what we can afford and in the public, as in from our government, all thngs should be equal accordingly. Taxes should be based on what we earn but we should know what we pay in taxes is based on what we can afford to get out of paying. Romney, for example, can afford so much better tax advice than the vast majority of us.

            You say “Then people can’t make the payments etc. Company X ends up with a lot of repossessed cars that are worth less. Who is at fault here. Is it GWB etc?. it is the fault of company x for making it possible but it is primarily the fault of the people who couldn’t afford the luxury car in the first place. If company x made shady deals such as credit default swaps etc then the Loans would be harder to unravel etc. Company X didn’t directly cause the collapse. It was worse in the Housing segment”.

            What is behind the “non-payment” for so many? For some it could be they just don’t care, they just wanted “the thing”. For so many maybe it was the company they worked for deciding to cut and lower their expenses. Payroll being an expense and being the easiest expense to control, might have been lowered to simply cut expenses – period. I know there are so many corporations who have done this, even Walmart the largest employer, has boasted they do not do that before they did. Several hundred people, many with more than 15 years service with them, just in the home office but there were also layoffs in other divisions too, were Walmart victims just a few years ago. And it is not just Walmart, it is many corporations.

            So many people all over the country, many good employees/associates, were layoff victims after they made purchased based on their incomes – which are no longer there. I have a huge email mailing list and I speak with many people all over the country. Many were these kinds of victims regardless of what the TP/GOP would have you to believe.

            So is it GWBs fault, as you asked? Maybe to some extent but we have to look at the results of his huge tax cuts for his wealthy buddies who do not create jobs as they should have with the incentives (tax cuts and out right gifts) bushy gave them. In one area of those tax breaks and gifts, to the Oil Companies, or were they pay backs on his part?, some of the Oil Execs said “it is UN-American for any to say their tax breaks were unfair”. That was a lot of money he out right gave them.

            So many of the bush tax breaks gifts, which were supposed to be incentives to create jobs, were instead used as savings for the bush receiptiants. Were are the jobs those gifts or incentives (savings) were supposed to create? Many people, hard working ex-employee people, are stuck with huge payments they were once able to afford but now can’t. Some were duped by banks to buy those “sucker” balloon mortgages and some just did the stupid thing of buying what they couldn’t afford. The latter I would surely look at for potential fault.

            So, it all depends if we are looking to throw blame around. Tell me something. People going to college these days, and I know loans cost so much more today then they did in my day. Why would the TP/GOP want to make it even harder for them to pay it back, as they are doing? Could it be to keep them in debt longer for the banks and so they would be more dependent longer?

            I guess I said more than I expected.

          • Charles Moore

            Much of what you say is true . I also said that the fault was with the people and Company X which made the rules so lax.Company X created the environment that made it possible, however, if only responsible people would have purchased the Luxury automobiles are the ones purchasing them would have made their payments then Company X would not collapse. President Clinton revived the Community Reinvestment Act which allowed Low Income people and Institutions to purchase homes. The problem didn’t occur under Clinton because there was a low percentage of people that qualified for them. When the Democrats took control of both Houses of Congress on January 3, 2007 then the Oversight committee over Fannie and Freddie increased that percentage to 65%. This was just the Housing bubble . i have already detailed the Consumer debt bubble. I disagree with you on the wealthy only be able to afford the advice, This is a cop out and you seem much more Intelligent. Many of the Rich hire advisers because they are good at what they do but not managing money or they don’t have the time to do the research etc. When a relative took over Ford he realized that he was not competent enough to do the job at that time. He didn’t take the attitude that he was entitled to it.He hired a guy by the name of Lee Icocca to take charge. If you go to the Doctors office and ask about costs for a procedure then you will most likely be referred to their Fiance Department etc. I used to go to the Library every minute of my free time in the beginning and study Economics and Finance. I started investing 10 % of my money over 30 years ago and then paid all the necessities. If there was no money left over after that then there was no non essentials. I never made as much as the average wage in the U.S. Yet I have assets that put me in the top 15% bracket nationally and it isn’t that much. I paid off my House in 20o5 early because i paid a measly $25. extra in the latter years,I have no Debts. Half of my holdings in the Stock market are in Master Limited Partnerships(MLPS) in defensive stocks. I don’t pay any taxes on the dividends that are deferred. Hers is the way it works. Say I buy a stock at $18 a share that pays a $ 1.80 dividend or 10%. If I decide to sell a year later then my cost is reduced by 1,80 a share. Two years later by $3.60 or it is raised then whatever. I don’t sell than I don’t pay a tax. I bought one MLP at 24 and it paid a dividend of $1,28. It is now at 30 and pays a dividend of $1.92 so the dividend alone has gone up 50% in a little over two years. Based on my price of 24 I have over 7% in Interest non counting inflation etc. I couldn’t afford a tax adviser of any repute but I don’t need one. Anybody can do it. Laziness or Apathy is not an excuse. As for Victims. My House even though it was paid off in 2005 lost 17% in value last year alone . i am the victim of these Morons that lived beyond their means and bought homes they couldn’t afford. Your friends who lost their jobs are also victims of them. For twenty years there have been 90% of Incumbents returned to Congress. How the Majority of Voters can return 90% to office and then give them a 13% rating is a tragedy. The Republican House has passed 30 pieces of major Legislation that has been shelved by the Senate controlled by the Democrats which deny the American people a voice on the Senate floor yet huge numbers of people believe the Republicans are the Obstructionists.

            Obama just slaughtered Welfare Reform passed by Clinton and the Republicans by removing the requirement to work to obtain it. Not only have Food Stamps increased under him by 50% but he has created more Debt in 3 1/2 years than Bush did in 8 years and Congress was controlled by the Democrats for the last two years of Bush,

            Obama is coming after the Middle Class. Do a search on Bush tax cuts. Wikipedia is excellent., It cost 2.2 trillion over 10 years or 220 Billion a year for those making under 200K a year. It costs 75 billion a year for those making over 200K a year. The Money is in the Middle class and that us why he only wants t extend it for one year. When he is re-elected then he can’t run for re-election and Katy Bar the Door.

            I am planning on Obama being re-elected. I am planning on the Ignorant, clueless and misinformed and the people who are salivating over entitlements.The latest month saw 80,000 people being hired, It also saw 85,000 people or 5000 more getting disability . There are 1,65 people not getting entitlement payments to ever 1 getting them. This Country is doomed and won;t survive 4 more years of Obama but that is what is coming for reasons have mentioned and more.There are very few victims .The facts have already been there. It is only now that people are waking up and it is most likely too late.

      • macgyver1948

        Joe Hammond… Much of what you say is true and some of it I have concerns. You included in your response to Michael J “by President Obama in 2011, when he did not seek congressional approval for the attack on Libyan forces, arguing that the Resolution did not apply to that action, and again when troops entered Pakistan to kill Osama bin Laden”. Just a concern.

        Although I do not at all like GW bush it was he who said something to the affects of, after 911, ‘we will go after the terrorists who attacked us on 911 and we will go after the ones who support terrorists because those who support them are terrorists themselves” – something like that.

        If we truly believe it was Al-qaeda who did the 911 terror disaster, planned by OBL, wasn’t the assault on Osama bin Laden in Pakistan all part of that? We should have the right to go after the people who attack us and not those who didn’t, as bush did with his immoral invasion of Iraq. Murder, and massive murder very much qualifies, has no statute of limitations. If we either put time limits on the “rightful revenges” or we stop at our borders we will tell our external enemies all over the world we are ripe for the pickings and America should be attacked at all times without fear of reprisals – just get to their borders. We need to never attack the wrong entities but we have the right of self defense no matter how long it takes or where it takes us. Just leave “good guys” alone.

        Other than that I enjoyed your retort especially at the end where you say “If the wealthy could lose their children to the draft and the war then they may think twice about starting one in Iran (just think what Romney would do if his sons could be drafted and sent to the Iranian front). That would be a part of the answer to the debt, stop the worthless wars!”

        I liked it so much maybe I wrote and published the below poem (as I was watching the final episode of China Beach, I think in the mid 90s for the same sentiment.

        Oh, I didn’t know of the Tea Party back then, for good reason, it didn’t exist then but it, TEA, was only the twinkle of The John Birch Society’s Koch, but WOW how it fits today. Other than that, as you said “stop the worthless wars!”, and then, engage only when necessary in real self defense and perhaps the defense of our real foreign friends.

        (WAR) WHAT IS THE USE?

        They say it’s crazy, they say it’s sad…
        But the whole human race goes on being mad.

        We read the phrases from the good book…
        But it’s as though we never really took a look.

        We claim to be right, they claim they are not wrong…
        Then both sides justify it in slogan and battle song.

        It’s funny the way the mighty are tall…
        But when they get mad it’s the young who must fall.

        How quick the mighty will call for the gun…
        How quick would they be if it were them or even their son.

        With the blood that we shed and the death and the pain…
        There is always more room on the wall for a name.

        So what do we prove when we go out to war???
        I can’t think of anything except for the score.

        You would think by now Man would get it right…
        But we keep finding reasons to purify the fight.

        One of these days we will stop hurting each other…
        Sadly, until then, we must try to kill our brother.

        The politician comes up with with his holy excuse…
        Then the rest of us must engage in personal abuse.

        Congressman says “roll back son it’s not about you any more”…
        As he asks for his tea he shows you his mighty door.

        Again I ask—(WAR) WHAT IS THE USE???!!!
        A poem by Steve…

        • Charles Moore

          Senator Obama who claimed to be a U.S. Constitutional Scholar who taught U.S. Constitutional Law for 10 years claimed that any POTUS that engaged in hostilities with another Country without first consulting Congress unless the Security of the U,S, or it Citizens are in imminent danger.That is pretty clear cut. Dennis Kucinich (D) took Obama to Court over the Libya deal. etc. Obama did not seek Congressional approval before entering Libya.
          1. The U.S. engaged in hostilities with Libya
          2. The Security of the U.S. or its Citizens were not in danger.
          After being pressed for it Obama stated that he did it to protect “Foreign Interests”. That is not what ” Constitutional Scholar” Obama stated in Congress and it not what is in the U.S. Constitution. I don’t know why anybody wouldn’t have a problem with this Hypocrisy or any other hypocrisies of this President except for Jeffie who makes childish and inane statements about it and then tries to distract from it. The actions are clear cut

    • 2centsworth

      The REAL reason that the American economy is collapsing is because 800 trillion dollars was stolen from the US Treasury, which would have already paid off the national debt. By who? By the Federal Reserve Bank which is a private corporation, and NOT federal. In 1991 Roy Schwasinger went before a senate committee to present evidence of the banks and governments criminal activity. He informed them how the Corporation of the United States was tied to the establishment of a New World Order which would bring about a fascist one world government ruled by the international bankers. So in 1992 a task force was put together consisting of over 300 retired and 35 active US military officers who strongly supported constitutional law.* This task force was responsible for investigating governmental officials, congressional officers, judges, and the Federal Reserve.
      *Chief of Naval Operations, Admiral Jeremy Boorda
      *General David McCloud
      *Former Director of Central Intelligence, William Colby
      They uncovered the common practice of bribery and extortion committed by both senators and judges. The criminal activity was so rampant that only 2 out of 535 members of congress were deemed honest. But more importantly they carried out the first ever audit of the Federal Reserve.
      The Federal Reserve was used to giving orders to politicians and had no intentions of being audited. However after they were informed their offices would be raided under military gunpoint if necessary; they complied with the investigation. After reviewing their files the military officers found $800 trillion dollars sitting in accounts which should have been applied to the national debt. And contrary to federal government propaganda they also discovered that most nations had in fact owed money to the United States instead of the other way around. There’s more to this story……..

      • Charles Moore

        You need to lay off the K.A. Your comment that the 800 Billion dollar Stimulus is a problem is more informed than ” Bush did it’ but is merely a reason for GDP growth to be slower. We are in this mess because for the first time in U.S History there were at least two bubbles at once. The 800 billion dollar Stimulus adds to the Federal Debt which will be one of the next bubbles. It also gets the U.S. closer to Bankruptcy when Federal Debt gets to be too much of a portion of GDP which could be in 3 1/2 years at the present trends.

        We are in this mess because of two Consumer debt bubbles. . The Consumer Debt bubble or Credit Bubble and the Housing Bubble, The U,S economy is 70% consumer driven The Economy started to slow down in the nineties. Consumers went into Debt and propped it up until they ran out of money. The Federal Reserve just helped to restrict Credit and Spending faster. The second was the Housing bubble. People were not only allowed to buy homes they couldn’t afford but those with established homes could use the equity in them as a piggy bank with Loans as much as 120% of that Equity so they could live beyond their means under the bigger Fool theory that there would always be somebody to pay an even higher price. Look up the History of other bubbles such as the South Sea Bubble and the Tulip Craze bubble. Of course the Fed helped speed up this one also.

    • Sarah R.

      Just when is America going to wake up? There are no two parties here. They are all one. NWO Globalists and have been for at least 50yrs. Romney is but one more. If We The People don’t find some answers fast America is doomed.

      • Charles Moore

        The U.S. is already doomed. We have a huge financial disaster looming. I have detailed it in another post and won’t do t again here. The Ignorant can keep parroting their rantings about the Elite and the One percent and Bush and all that is being done is to muddy the waters. If you are sick then you don’t go to the Doctor and not your Plumber. The best choice now for the Economic scenario is Romney although I am not sure about the rest. It may be too late for Romney but I can Guaranty you that the re-election of Obama and the Democrats taking both houses of Congress is a disaster. The House Republicans have passed 30 pieces of major Legislation and the Senate controlled by the Democrats has shelved them all and not allowed an up or down vote. They are not allowing the American people a voice on the floor of the Senate yet the Ignorant , clueless and the misinformed believe the rhetoric that the Republicans are the Obstructionists.

        The evidence is there. If people want to believe and parrot the false Rhetoric then the people deserve to be unemployed, lose their income and be in the Soup lines of there s any soup left for you.

  • Rasta

    Let’s see. You leave office with an on going war. What is the incoming President to do?He has to prosecute the war until victory or some peace is negotiated. I see what you are trying to do here. Try to connect Obama with the real culprit. Maybe it will rub off. Bush started the Iraq war with a false and misleading pretense of weapons of mass destruction, when that was found to be untrue the war morphed into Iraqui freedom. Good try, but really, really at least try to tell it like it happened.

    • Robert Smith

      What? And hold the right wing responsible! That just doesn’t happen.

      They are gonna blame it on the folks who lost their jobs, get sick, go bankrupt, and can’t support themselves anymore because they got ground under the heel of the 1%.


      • Mike in MI

        Robt. Smith -
        Apparently you didn’t read (or comprehend) the article’s identification of the problem with consumer credit purchases. The habit of buying beyond one’s means is bad business since paying back the loan from the credit company was cited as the reason for the plight (read that “incipient agony”) of the 99%ers. If that includes you then you need to realize that spending oneself into penury literally sells one’s soul to whoever holds the notes in the financial board rooms. They (you?) were not forced by anything other than their own concupiscent stupidity. Now their inability to meet their own survival needs leads them to want to blame and rail against those who they sold themselves to. Typical blame shifting rather than taking the honest action of working to pay what is owed. Witness the OWS pissants various themes.
        One of these days the present owners of those dolts will tire of carrying the bad debt and take steps (whatever) to settle the score under their terms and benefit. Be afraid, be very, very afraid. Many of them are ardent socialists in wool pullovers (Obama owes them too). When they come knocking on the door, be packed for a boxcar ride.

      • Mike in MI

        Oh ya -
        Remember, just in case you don’t think you have any personal debt, your (our) people in white-Wash. D.C. are technically classed as our representatives – acting on our behalf. So their running up the national debt might possibly be able to be put on our tab in this establishment. If so, whoever holds the note might own us lock-stock-barrelstaves until we pay it off. But, if they keep the businessmen tied down and profitless generating enough GDP to even pay the interest on the debt could prove to be impossible.
        The Devil is in the details and he deals in souls.

      • Jay

        Rob and Rasta, Bush started the war in Iraq with the full support of the Democratic party.

      • Flashy

        Jay…which they are to be blamed for being dupes and not questioning the lies and obvious tomfoolery Bush was playing with. if you will recall though, back then…any who dared..DARED to question that administration’s assertions were crucified by the Right Wing and neo-cons.

        As for Afghanistan, we were, in theory, going after bin Laden. but he was allowed to skirt over the mountains and thus continue to be able to be used by Bush/Cheney etc to forward their own goals of conquest and war and further enrichment of Bog Corporate America and their own personal cronies. yet..we kicked out the Taliban (never a goal) and got ourselves embroiled in a civil war there.

        Note one item…Obama is getting us out leaving as little of a vacuum as possible given the circumstances.

        As for the article and charts…hey1 Do you see it? As the Obama economic plans started hitting and coming into effect…the economic numbers improved ! When the GOP stalled and whined and deadlocked any further stimulus…and as Europe began to feel the effects of austerity in the face of a recession…our own economy kept growing, but the effects of both the GOP intolerance for Middle America and European crisis has affected us significantly. Wonder why the GOP won’t call up the Jobs Bill for debate?

        Finally, the author’s assertions about China. Well…OK…everyone has to have an opinion, however uninformed and clueless it is. I said about two years ago, China then had 3-5 more years of fairly good times before it all fell down around its ears. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can read those factors. Aging population, more materialistic and demanding workforce, internet to the world, food issues, domestic security, no naval presence (and THAT requires some big bucks….which they don’t have) and the growing ignorance begotten by it’s own special brand of communism/dynastic inheritance as applied to modern day economics….all will cause a huge hiccup.

        While the common call and siren song about China these past few years has been ‘The Commies are coming! The Commies are coming”, the more aware were seeing the writing on the wall and looking past the economic issues that soon will envelope the Chinese.

        India folks…i’d place my money on India. Give it five years and we’ll be reading about India taking a shot at the top of the hill as the Chinese roll down it.

      • Don_in_DC

        India and China will be the two new powers while the US and EU fall behind. Everyone gives China a bad rep and some of it is deserved but you have to give them kudos too. They have had a much rougher past than most of us in the world and its been that way for a very long time. My bets are still on China because while they do have infrastructure problems so does India. India has been very dependent on the US and UK in its development too so when we fall that will probably affect them a little worse than China. China has so far played their part pretty smart overall, much smarter than the US has.

        The US has approached things much as the too big to fail banks…it has had all the advantages and still pissed it away. If China had our government in 1949 instead of the Communist there is little doubt they would have passed us long ago. Unfortunately even the communist were a big improvement over their past. The US has done everything it can to ensure its own demise and only lasted this long because it had so many things to draw from that delayed it. That is now over. As the article points out, nobody is even trying to address the real problem of debt. Argue the party lines all you want but it won’t change the outcome.

      • Deerinwater

        Jay says:
        July 10, 2012 at 11:30 am
        Rob and Rasta, Bush started the war in Iraq with the full support of the Democratic party”

        No that is not so Jay. You are misinformed or just don’t want to believe the truth. ~ Pick one.

        Congressional opposition

        President George Bush, surrounded by leaders of the House and Senate, announces the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq, October 2, 2002.
        Opinion in the U.S. Congress leading up to the Iraq War generally favored a diplomatic solution, while supporting military intervention should diplomacy fail. The October 11, 2002 resolution that authorized President Bush to use force in Iraq passed the Senate by a vote of 77 to 23, and the House by 296 to 133.[36][37] Leading opponents of the resolution included Senators Russ Feingold and Edward Kennedy.
        As the war progressed and the insurgency began to develop into what many believe is a civil war in Iraq, Congressional support for the Iraq campaign began to wane. A flashpoint came on November 17, 2005, when Representative John Murtha, a Vietnam combat veteran who voted to authorize the war and is widely regarded as an ardent supporter of the military, introduced a resolution calling for U.S. forces in Iraq to be “redeployed at the earliest practicable date” to stand as a quick-reaction force in U.S. bases in neighboring countries such as Kuwait.[38]
        Since the introduction of the Murtha resolution, many members of Congress, particularly in the Democratic Party, have rallied around the strategy of a phased troop withdrawal. In the 2007 Congressional session, critics of the war have sought to tie additional war appropriations to a specific timetable for withdrawal. On March 23, 2007, the House of Representatives passed an Iraq spending bill that requires that troops begin withdrawing in March 2008 and that most US forces be out of Iraq by August 31, 2008.[39] This bill is still under debate in the U.S. Senate.
        Congressional critics of the war have also opposed President Bush’s plan to send an additional 20,000 U.S. soldiers to Iraq. On January 10, 2007, Senator Dick Durbin gave the Democratic response to this plan by saying: “We have given the Iraqis so much… Now, in the fourth year of this war, it is time for the Iraqis to stand and defend their own nation.”[40]

        “In October 1998, removing the Hussein regime became official U.S. foreign policy with enactment of the Iraq Liberation Act. Enacted following the expulsion of UN weapons inspectors the preceding August (after some had been accused of spying for the U.S.), the act provided $97 million for Iraqi “democratic opposition organizations” to “establish a program to support a transition to democracy in Iraq.”[35] This legislation contrasted with the terms set out in United Nations Security Council Resolution 687, which focused on weapons and weapons programs and made no mention of regime change.[36] One month after the passage of the Iraq Liberation Act, the U.S. and UK launched a bombardment campaign of Iraq called Operation Desert Fox. The campaign’s express rationale was to hamper Saddam Hussein’s government’s ability to produce chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, but U.S. intelligence personnel also hoped it would help weaken Hussein’s grip on power.[37]
        With the election of George W. Bush as president in 2000, the U.S. moved towards a more aggressive policy toward Iraq. The Republican Party’s campaign platform in the 2000 election called for “full implementation” of the Iraq Liberation Act and removal of Hussein. Key Bush advisors, including Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, had long desired to invade Iraq.[38] After leaving the George W. Bush administration, Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill said that an attack on Iraq had been planned since Bush’s inauguration, and that the first United States National Security Council meeting involved discussion of an invasion. O’Neill later backtracked, saying that these discussions were part of a continuation of foreign policy first put into place by the Clinton administration.[39]

      • Jay

        Had a majority of either the Republican-controlled House or the Democratic-controlled Senate voted against the resolution authorizing the invasion or had they passed an alternative resolution conditioning such authority on the approval of the use of force from the United Nations Security Council, all the tragic events that have unfolded as a consequence of the March 2003 invasion would have never taken place.

        The responsibility for the deaths of over 4,400 American soldiers, the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, the waste of nearly one trillion dollars of our national treasury and the rise of terrorism and Islamist extremism that has come as a result of the US invasion and occupation of Iraq rests as much in the hands of the members in Congress who authorized the invasion as it does with the administration that requested
        the lawmakers’ approval. Indeed, the October 2002 resolution authorizing the invasion had the support of the majority of Democratic senators, as well as the support of the Democratic Party leadership in both the House and the Senate.

        • Charles Moore

          Here we go again.Its that evil 1%. The recessions started in both Japan and the U.S. when Consumer Debt was 130% of consumer disposable income. It was a Consumer Debt bubble. You people don’t know the difference between Consumer Debt and Federal Debt???The Federal Debt will be the next bubble. People that didn’t live beyond their means were not affected by Iraq or Afghanistan. I have always made a wage lower than the average wage. I invested 10% of that paltry income. Then I made my payments of necessity such as a mortgage , utilities and food etc. If there wasn’t any money left over then there wasn’t any Pizzas, Restaurants, Vacations, Movies etc.I did this for over 30 years. I have no Debts. I am retired and have a good Income and health benefits. I never made as much as the average wage but I am in the top 15% of Assets in the U.S.I am tired of the Ignorant whiners who lived beyond their means and blame the 1% in order to have an excuse for a hand out. The Housing Crisis was caused by 7% of the people. These were people that bought homes they couldn’t afford. They were people who had homes with Equity and used that Equity to buy things they normally couldn’t pay for with the attitude that the party would never end and there would always be somebody dumber than them that would pay a higher price for a home. A person could get 120% of the Equity in their home. A person who had a $100.000 home paid for could get $120,000. When the bubble burst these people had a home now worth $75,000 and owed $120,000.Most purchased Variable rate mortgages as they were cheaper up front. The Federal Reserve raised rates 13 consecutive times. People who were on the Margin and could afford the home saw their Mortgage payments go up as much as 80% A person with $1200 a month payments now had monthly payments of $2160 . it was a consumer debt bubble when people that were propping up an economy that is 70% consumer driven. They ran out of money. The Federal reserve not only accelerated it but squeezed Credit by the raises . Read how the Federal Reserve restricts and allows Credit. The Banks had to cut off Credit. Home values went up 120% between 2000-2007. This is a simple interest of 17% a year. A person with even a basic knowledge of Economics knows that Home prices had never gone up 17% a month. The signs of the bubbles were there The majority of people were just too ignorant to see it. Most didn’t take personal responsibility . They blamed the banks for not telling them they couldn’t afford it. I guess they were too ignorant to balance expenses against income . A person making minimum wage couldn’t figure out that they couldn’t afford a $150,000 home?. Others blamed Bush. Did Bush put a gun to their heads and force them to live beyond their means?Some blame the 1%. Same question. It was the people in the 99% that caused this mess. My home was paid for by 2005. It went down 17% in value last year. I don’t care as it became overpriced when its value increased by 120%. Unfortunately through no fault of my own the down turn to normal values have have been more excessive on the downside. If I wasn’t Retired I could get a good deal on another home at these prices and pay for it. The people taking such advantage of these deals are not the 1%. They are middle class people who are in this position because they weren’t ignorant and didn’t live beyond their means.

      • Deerinwater

        Jay says:”Indeed, the October 2002 resolution authorizing the invasion had the support of the majority of Democratic senators, as well as the support of the Democratic Party leadership in both the House and the Senate”

        Right! by being lied too.

    • randall

      me pointing a gun to your head and taking your money is wrong, won’t you agree? me pointing a gun to your head and taking your money to give to someone else is still wrong, won’t you agree?? me and my friends pointing a gun to your head and taking your money to give to others is wrong, don’t ya think??? that process is called govt

      • nc

        Randall, I have been in this country for 76 years and paid income taxes for 60 of them. BUT NEVER WITH A GUN AT MY HEAD. I did it because it occurred to me at an early age as I watched what the children in Europe and Asia had for a life compared to the great life I had on a mill village with wage earner parents. It wasn’t much but it was everything to me!
        We can’t compete in this world on “voluntary donations” from the people certainly not at the level of number one nation in the world. Would you rather live somewhere else? Did we get here without taxes? Can we stay here without taxes?
        Have you ever stepped over the body of an American who starved to death from paying federal income taxes,or a starving baby in the streets or an American killed by a bomb dropped from an invading plane?
        I didn’t see a gun at my head when I mailed in my taxes and if you did I would suggest glasses and counseling! Would we rather not pay them? Sure! Would Nathan Hale rather not been hanged? Did your mama promise you a free ride doing ONLY what you wanted to do? If so, she needs counseling also!!

      • mark

        No, it is actually called globalist corporate capitalism and it rules the world, randall. You are another of its misinformed supporters who foolishly blame goverment when globalist corporate capitalism buys and sells governments, politicians, workers, journalists, and media so that its system continues to dominate more and more each day. Free yourself from this all-pervasive propaganda that emanates from all political parties (Libertarians, included; they are among the worst and totally clueless worshippers of the corporate monster). Smash the machine!

      • Jeff

        That kind of logic will leadyou to walk on your hands and live under water. If you think government is unnecessary, think again. Your little logic puzzle is meaningless because you define things as similar that are not. Collecting taxes is not the same as armed robbery except on right wing bumper stickers.

      • http://google rose

        Nc – if you don’t think that the threat of being imprisoned and fined for not paying your taxes, isn’t holding a gun to your head, you are wrong, if you don’t think when Obamacare goes into effect and you don’t pay you are fined or imprisoned, that that is not holding a gun to your head, your wrong again.

      • Ted Crawford

        ” To tax the Community for the advantage of a class is not protection, it is plunder !” Benjamin Disraeli
        ” The American Republic will endure, untill the Politicians realize that they can bribe the people with their own money ” Alexis de Tocqueville

      • Mike in MI

        nc -
        Did you pay enough to cover the national indebtedness? No?
        Then you you didn’t pay enough to keep your head out of the slammer, somebody’s noose or the holder of the note’s gulag.

      • Paul B.

        Mark, Yes it IS government’s fault. They succumbed to the bribes and pressure of wealth, and power the corporatists offered them. No one MADE OUR ELECTED representatives, who were hired by US to protect our rights and our freedoms and to provide level playing fields, equal opportunity to all, to betray us, to join forces with corporate america. They are traitors to the citizens that elected them to serve.

        Corporate capitalists, etc are in the business to create wealth, produce products, hire employees and support the country in which they work. was it wrong for them to bride our representatives for favors, creating this crony capitalist system we now live in… YES IT WAS. But that is what they do, it is their nature to seek advantage.

        I blame DC as they work for us, for our interests. No one forced them into collusion. I blame them for it WAS THEIR JOB, not the corporations, to act in OUR best interest. Government could have ignored the bequests and bribes and done what they should have, but didn’t.

        Yes it IS GOVERNMENT that is bad. without the power we have ceded to DC allowing them the ability to manipulate markets, pick winners and losers that created this mess. Yes it is our fault as well as we allowed it to happen by our votes. Without the power to control, they lack the power to be of benefit to big business and small business, lacking purchased constricting, competition killing legislation, would be able to thrive once again.

        Big government is bad, electing people who support big government is wrong, and until we realize that government is NOT the answer to our problems, as regulation always interjects DC controls into a free market, we will never recover. Reduce government, let me keep my money to spend as I SEE FIT, and America will recover.

      • mark

        But Paul B,

        Wake up will you. Under our own legal system, the briber receives the principle punishment and culpablity under the law – NOT the receiver of the bribe. The briber – big business, Wall Street, the megabanks, and the globalist capitalist corporations initiate this malfeasance. They are the corrupters of the system. Are the politicians also guilty? Certainly, but under our election system, none of them can get elected to real power without accepting bribes. This includes Ron Paul. I do not believe, he has accepted corporate bribes. As such he is totally unelectable as U.S. president as we all know. He will not win the Republican nomination and his Libertarian party stands no chance of victory in a rigged electoral college system designed by the Founding Fathers to prevent any radical populists from getting elected to the presidency. These are just the facts. I certainly am not happy with them. A huge blind spot with all Libertarians due to their understandable devotion to capitalism is their inability to grasp the huge danger to our republic that gigantist, globalist corporate capitalism represents. They just don’t get it and continue to rail against gov’t when go’vt is a small player, at best a junior partner to the gigantic power of global capital.

      • Don_in_DC

        For those that argue that government isn’t to blame you are wrong. Sure corporations are greedy and they try to help themselves. This is normal. All humans do the same thing. Just like some corporations abuse it, so do some humans. There is no law that says your level of corruption is related to your income. If corporations are too powerful it is because governments have allowed it. This is an area our forefathers didn’t really have an answer for because they didn’t know how the world would change. Instead they gave us the framework that would allow us to deal with it and apparently we failed.

        Government is made from those flawed humans too, just like corporations. Often its the same people in both. When you pay your taxes you do so at gunpoint NC. This argument doesn’t change just because you don’t like it. The real issue is that when you gave those taxes to the central government which then decides where to allocate the funds across state lines you lost your control. Taxes should be taken at a local level to do local work. I shouldn’t pay taxes so that people in another country can benefit from it. When you look across the world most governments favor their own citizens, we don’t. We put more hardship on our own while offering benefits to others. We let illegals have rights that we don’t give to legal immigrants. The payout should be in this order…natural born citizens, legal immigrants and then squatter rights (illegals) but we don’t do that. Notice I still said you can give rights to illegals just not more than the others. You don’t expect China to offer you more benefits than it does to its citizens. You don’t expect any other country to offer you more than it does to its own.

        If you think I am wrong in my portrayal consider this, you live in another country and pay taxes to that country you still owe US taxes on money made there just for being a US citizen. It’s law, look it up. You get less educational assistance, less benefits, etc than you do if you are a minority. The majority of Americans are Americans. You pay more to the drug companies to cover R&D as a citizen than they will charge to ship those same drugs overseas. We expect government to look after our interests FIRST because we elect and support them. An employer should look after his employees more so than the competition…it’s just the way it is if you care about self-preservation. It is in your best interest to help those that can help you. There is no logic to give preferred treatment to outsiders. Call it selfish, call it whatever but it makes sense.

        How would you feel if the government put aside 20 trillion dollars for aliens that might visit this planet while making you pay interest on the 17 trillion they spent? You would be pissed. In some ways the numbers we give to other countries is minimal in comparison to the major things but every little bit matters. As long as we have debt we shouldn’t give foreign aid to anyone. It is fiscally irresponsible to do so. If we have a surplus then you can do whatever liberal agenda you want but we haven’t in my lifetime so stop it all. This whole mess started when we “got away with” giving money to Europe after WW2 and didn’t expect it back. Was it right to do that, maybe…but it started a very bad thing where government stopped thinking it was accountable for debt. I’m ok with shouldering some expenses to get rid of Hitler but I’m not ok with doing it to handle a political agenda based war. The wars need to stop. The thinking we can help the world isn’t possible if we can’t control our borders or our spending.

    • Warrior

      Great point! If a US prez is leaving office, any/all wars have to be suspended indefinitely.
      This “fundamental transformation” stuff is so much fun.

      • moonbeam

        Sounds good to me. And how about no US prez can send us to war unless he has children who MUST head straight for the front lines along with everybody else’s sons and daughters.

        Both of bush’s daughters should have been dressed in fatigues and sent the very first edge of the front line. This should be mandatory.

      • James Heronime

        Moonbeam says: Both of bush’s daughters should have been dressed in fatigues and sent the very first edge of the front line. This should be mandatory.
        Aw yeah, they would have been great doughnut dollies!:-)

    • Redfray

      There is no war. Obama can stop this “so called war” anytime he gets ready. Just call the troops home.

      • polmutant

        problem is by definition none of these wars are wars. they are police actions. unconstitutional period. war is complete disableing of a country while leaving a work force behind to work off the cost spent to disable them.

      • Thinking About

        Now explain just how this will be accomplished and just what route do you expect them to take? Maybe you did not know this is a landlocked country but there is a problem. In the past few days an apology has been made to Pakistan and perhaps soon we will get the route of exit opened and therefore not as easy done as saying.

      • nc

        Redfray, I voted for Obama to try to insure that a proponent of the Republican platform did not gain the White House as I have done in every election since 1960!! The Republicans with their platform were the only ones capable of winning the White House which is the same situation we have today! I think his two biggest mistakes were pushing for health care reform before a more concentrated effort was made to stop the situation that was causing the US to lose jobs and then try to put them back to work and the second mistake is keeping boots on the ground in Afghanistan for this long!

        We paid trillions for our technical advantage of killing the enemy with less loss of life by our “boots” and the “unconquerable mountains” of that country was the perfect place to use it! For this reason I fault bush for ever going in and Obama for not coming out!

      • Dennis48e

        “…as I have done in every election since 1960!! ”

        Ah, nc proves he is one of the stupid who vote the party rather than the man. That means he vpoted for Carter who gave us the iran hostage crisis. That means he voted for Johnson who gave us the Viet Nam fiasco. And Yes I know it started before Johnson but it turned into the fiasco under him and his major expansion of the conflict.

      • Deerinwater

        Redfray says:
        July 10, 2012 at 8:16 am
        There is no war. Obama can stop this “so called war” anytime he gets ready. Just call the troops home”

        That is true ! Just like you can end a 12 year marriage by saying, ~ I’m leaving now , Bye!

        • Charles Moore

          Afghanistan is not winnable. No outside force has conquered it since Alexander the Great and that was 2300 years ago. There is no Central Government. It is a loose network of tribal chiefs. When Obama became POTUS he criticized Bush for leaving Afghanistan and focusing on Iraq. I don’t agree with Afghanistan or Iraq but GWB made the decision that Afghanistan was a lost cost. Obama increased the troops there and blamed it on Bush. I am saddened by the commercials that depict these men that are missing one , two or three appendages and have Brain damage. Where are all the Beautiful people from Hollywood. I see Gary Sinese and several Country Western Singers only. We should not be in Afghanistan. The troops should be brought home tomorrow instead of being subject to this needless slaughter and the affected families,

    • momo

      Bush, Obama, different sides of the same coin. What’s going to change if Romney gets elected? Not Much!

      • Deerinwater

        Hmm? beside skin color? Well, ~ you will enjoy 44 for only 4 years while 45 would please you 8 ~ for starters. Not to suggest you statement doesn’t have a degree of truth to it but the different is for major importance.

    • Mountain Saint

      Rasta, Saddam’s WMDs were secretly trucked to Syria. They will make an appearance in the 4th and final Arab v. Israeli war in the near future (Amos 1-2, Isaiah 17:1 and Ezekiel 29:12).

      • Flashy

        LOL…uh huh. And with all the survelliance we had on Iraq, they were able to do that. That and Assad currently fighting for his life and that of his regime…naw…he wouldn’t want to use anything like WMD since….ummmm…it would save his as* ?

      • Dennis48e

        Flashy we did NOT have all that good a survelance of Iraq. There was not24/7/365 coverage with 2-3 geo-syncranous (sp) satalites the coverage depended on those that passed over then there was a window with no coverage then another would pass over then another long window of no coverage. If our survelance had been good enough to insure we saw WMDs being moved around Iraq would not have been able to shoot off the first Scud missle much less any more.

      • Flashy

        So what you are stating is the Bush /Cheney regime only lied about WMDs because they were too incompetent to track them…even as they were telling the UN Inspection teams ‘we knew where they were”,

        But weren’t telling where.

        OK….even I don’t buy that. With the intensity of scrutiny on Iraq during this time, between the CIA, the NSA, the Pentagon, and probably several organizations we don’t even know exist … we didn’t have 24/7 intel ?

        C’mon…. quit tryin’ to smoke us

        • macgyver1948

          Flashy… I will be silly for a bit based on the comment you responded to. “Rasta, Saddam’s WMDs were secretly trucked to Syria. They will make an appearance in the 4th and final Arab v. Israeli war in the near future (Amos 1-2, Isaiah 17:1 and Ezekiel 29:12).

          We do not know WMDs were shipped to Syria, an ancient enemy of Israel’s. After all, it was a secret. We do know Bush lied about many important things to get us into his immoral wars. And I do not remember reading about WMDs in the bible. Yes, final war but who will win? I think enemies of Israel should think twice but Russia and China might want inclusion. We just might find the hiatus-ed cold war, with more participants this time, on fire if that happens.

          If I remember correctly in those early days of GW there were news reports which stated the CIA and other alphabet soup agencies told the Bush Administration there were no longer any WMDs in Iraq, there was no connection between 911 and Iraq. We also knew that Al-qaeda and Saddam hated each other. They didn’t get along because Saddam wouldn’t allow Al-qaeda to play in Iraq, among other reasons. And there were more insurgents and terrorists (not necessarily the same) in Iraq since the immoral invasion then before.

          The Bush war in Iraq could have been for Oil and for daddy’s revenge but I will always blame GW for all the American deaths caused in his immoral invasion and for all the vast amounts of wasted money we lost and will be paying back for decades, if our governments feels like doing the right thing.

          I am not ready to believe the White House has better worldly surveillance than “the CIA, the NSA, the Pentagon, and probably several organizations we don’t even know exist”. Can you see Obama turning his private White House TV on and watching any part of the world he chooses, any square foot? :-). That would be up close and personal and I remember that from a silly sci-fi way back.

      • Michael J.

        Mountain Saint is correct. WMD that was purchased by Saddam from China, Russia and France was allowed to be trucked to a site in Syria and the Bekaa Valley, Lebanon, where is was buried in a 700 ft deep pit and encased in concrete. Satelite imagery of Russian truck convoys crossing the dessert in broad daylight exists, but have been expunged from the net. The Russians got the duty because theirs comprised the mass majority of the weapons. That the operation took place in daylight hours proves that all concerned parties were aware and indeed involved in the coverup designed to save face for the nations that had provided the weapons.

    • Power To The People

      Stop being a tool for the power elite…Bush, Obumer, Reid, Pelosi, Cantor….they are all the same. They are the culprits of our doom along with the years of run away government and give away programs. Rome burns while everyone wrings their hands!

      • Deerinwater

        Nero had a weinner roast

    • ROBO

      As soon as Obammy got in office he should have immediately got our soldiers out of there.Why didn’t he?He can make his own laws.Don’t blame Bush for what’s going on today.The Prez has had 4 years to get his crap together.Instead, he’s ignored the American people (who HE works for), taken away peoples rights,force HIS ideals, and not honored ANY of his promises he made during his campaign.I’d say he should be impeached,but then we’d be stuck with his flunky.


        I agree with your comments, instead he increased US forces. both polotcila parties are mired in failure.

      • Don_in_DC

        Agreed, Obama’s error is not doing what he said and blaming Bush for everything while repeating the same mistakes. Both of them have really screwed this country big time. Before them there was plenty of mistakes to go around too. Thing is we are to blame because we didn’t hold them accountable. If we did show they are accountable to us then they would be scared and they aren’t. The politicians know that people are willing to accept BS until they push it too far. Nobody pushed them so they are still trying to find what is too far. Vote out EVERY incumbent and they will wake up. True we would lose a few good ones but it would show we mean business. As long as you show that you prefer someone making mistakes they will work hard to achieve your expectations.

      • Deerinwater

        ROBO says ;Don’t blame Bush for what’s going on today.The Prez has had 4 years to get his crap.

        It took 5 years to close down Nam and that was just one war ROBO.

        And I will blame BUSH for installing us there with no exit plan. Thank you very much.

    • Mike C

      Sorry Rasta you can stop blaming Bush. If the wars are unjust, as you say, there was nothing stopping Obama from bringing the troops home. He continued to fight the wars and jumped in fully with Libya.

      • Charles Moore

        The War in Afghanistan is not winnable. There is no Central Government. It is a loose network of tribal chiefs. Pakistan which is necessary for a supply route among other things is not a true ally. Afghanistan has not been conquered by an outside force since Alexander the Great which was 2300 years ago. The Bush Administration saw this and focused on Iraq . The problem was he stayed too long. Obama increased the troops in Afghanistan. The troops need to be brought home. Obama did not end the War in Iraq although he takes credit for it. Bush signed the withdrawal treaty in 2008. Obama actually tried to get it extended but the Iraq Government would not agree t o immunity for the troops. People need to check their facts

    • Charles Moore

      Huh. Congress had the same Intelligence reports as Bush and approved the War in Iraq. There is not doubt that priorities changed after approval and the US, stayed too long in Iraq. This doesn’t excuse Congress and the Democrats who gave their approval who then tried to run from it. Once Bush gained approval then as CIC he had 100 % of the decisions. Either Congress couldn’t see it or didn’t care about it.This is the same deal as the TARP bailout in 2008. The Democrats had taken control of both Houses of Congress on January 3, 2007. I don’t care who asked for it. Congress has the final word and it wouldn’t have happened without the approval of the Democrats who controlled both Houses of Congress. The idea for Tarp was sound. As i explained earlier there was a Credit Crisis. Paulson who was the former head of CSX and Bush knew that Credit had to be established ad the Federal Reserve wasn’t acting on it. The quickest way was to get the money to the Banks to put in the Economy. The Democrats who were in control put no conditions on the money. Most of the Banks took the money and instead of using to supply credit used the money to expand and for their own needs etc. It is too late the now,however, the Housing crisis could have been at least reduced if the Banks had been forced to take some of the money and made up the difference between the value of homes and the principal of the Mortgage Loan thereby reducing payments that had gone up as much as 80% due to the 13 consecutive interest rate increases by the Federal Reserve as most of the mortgages were adjustable rates. . Of course this would have angered people who were paying their mortgages but their homes wouldn’t have gone down that much in value, Obama could have ended the War in Afghanistan. It is not winnable. It has not been conquered by an outside force since Alexander the Great which was 2300 years ago. There is no Central Government as it is composed of a loose network of tribal chiefs. Yet Obama increased the troops by 30,000 and the Democrats who had castigated Bush for the Wars gave Obama free pass .

      • Jeff

        To summarize: Bush good, Obama bad.

  • MAP

    This country was founded on the ideas of liberty and that government was by consent of the governed. But these ideas are gone with hardly a trace. And along with it went any means to limit the growth and power of the Federal government. Now, instead of any love for our traditions, customs, history, or the Constitution and the founding documents we are required to have love only for the out of control state. We have become just another oppressed country, living under brutal despotism.

    • Robert Smith

      Long live the 1%! (not)

      Look around folks. Be it in business, government, religion, or even in fighting them (as in union bosses) the top really only benefits when there is strife and the generated fear so the masses will contribute to them and keep them in power.


      • Ted G

        Sorry Robert But IMO your ire is misdirected.

      • Jay

        Robert, the 1% is comprised of the Elite who own Congress, the Senate, our Judicial system, the Democratic and the Republican party, as well as your azz; and are more then happy to send one of their goons(the Po-lice) to bash your thick skull, or anyone else’s skull in, who should become too committed to changing the status-quo! The fact that you are still posting your non-sensical drivel, could only mean that they consider you to be of no consequence.

      • Michael J.


    • mark

      Much of what you are purporting here are fairy tales and nonsense, MAP. This country was founded on land-stealing, violence, and slavery. Take a look at the historical record. It is pretty irrefutable.

      • Dale left coast

        Mark . . . you are patently nuts ! ! ! You have your marxist in chief in the WH . . . and you’re still not happy?
        While capitalism is far from perfect . . . the alternatives are on display in Europe, Cuba, the ME and China . . .
        Once half the country is on the dole and just wants to sit on their collective asses and receive a cheque . . . the Republic is finished.

      • MAP

        Exploitation of others is, has always been, and will forever be. It is a fact of life and the natural inequalities of man. You, however, are a bigot, racist, prejudiced, and full of hate and bitterness. You must work out your personal problems with yourself. I doubt anyone here can help you.

      • mark

        Calling me patently nuts is not an argument, Dale, it is simply an insult. Someone puts forth a proposition and you simply say: “You’re fat and you’re ugly.” This is not a debate and you would not have lasted fifteen minutes on even a high school debating team. In 1776 when the United States was founded, over two thirds of its economy was based on slave labor agricultural production. All the land Americans lived on had been siezed through violence from Amerindians. One-fifth of the population of 2.5 million were slaves, another one-sixth were bond servants or indentured laborers. Huge numbers of so-called free Americans could not even vote or stand for office in state assemblies because they could not meet the property qualifications. This was the “land of the free” in 1776. You’ll have to forgive me if I no longer accept the fairy tales I was taught about early U.S. history in grammar school. And don’t just parrot them back verbatim to others as an adult. I also no longer believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

      • mark

        I am not bitter at all, MAP, and am actually pretty happy-go-lucky in my personal life. Simply refusing to accept the fairy tales I was spoon-fed about American history as a child does not make me a racist, a bigot, or prejudiced either. In fact a large percentage of the Founding Fathers were racist, bigotted, and prejudiced against Amerindians, their African slaves, and Irish Catholic laborers which is documented in their own writings. Simply pointing out the Founding Fathers’ racism does not make me a racist. In fact in doing so I am condemning their racism instead of justifying or “white washing” it as you appear to do. Exploitation has always existed in all systems, so we should just accept it? Murder has always existed in all political systems also, so we should just accept that, too?!

      • MAP

        No, Mark. You believe in things far more terrible, frightening and sinister. As I said, exploitation of others is a fact of life. History is a chronicle of exploitation. It is inescapable. It is as much a part of life as breathing. But you want only to see the worst. You are incapable of expanding beyond that, even if pointed out to you. You are full of hate and bitterness of your own making. And, there is no one here that can help you.

  • randall

    it is time for self responsibility and take back our freedom. plant a garden, plant a forest garden, learn what food grows around you (weeds). the state is an outdated system, we do not need it. govt is nothing but force or threat of force against others, we do not need it. i will take my chances against the bum down the street robbing me verses the govt thug robbing me every day.

    • Robert Smith

      randall claims: “the state is an outdated system, we do not need it. govt is nothing but force or threat of force against others, we do not need it.”

      That’s a bit of an extreme.

      We need an army because there are real threats on Planet Earth.

      We need a central authority for airplanes, trains, etc. to make sure they all play well together.

      We need a central authority to make sure all measurements are the same.

      We need a central authority to take care of those who are truly in need.

      We need a central authority to respond to health threats.


      Government shouldn’t be eliminated, just brought back to the People.


      • Ted G

        Now here is something that makes sense Robert.
        You almost sound like you believe in a limited federal goverment.

      • Steve E

        If we had a gov’t like that, that wouldn’t be too bad. I’ll just keep dreaming.

      • metoman

        Robert I am guessing you are in your 20 to 30 year old bracket. I am somewhat older and was here paying attention when you were a gleam in your fathers eyes. I see revisionist history on a daily bases. Let’s us look at are cook book, the Constitution.

        “We need an army because there are real threats on Planet Earth.” The Constitution only provides for a standing Navy and a militia, that’s why there is a 2nd amendment.

        “We need a central authority for airplanes, trains, etc. to make sure they all play well together.” Central “authority” is not the correct term. We need regulations to operate the transportation system but much of it is the State responsibility and there is a Constitutional prohibition for what TSA does to us at the airports and a mall near your.

        We need a central authority to make sure all measurements are the same. Yes, your favorite word again. Different geographic locations require different rules, your cookie cutter method will not work. Ah, that dammed Constitution again. Do you know the Federal Government has enumerated powers, do you know what that means?

        “We need a central authority to take care of those who are truly in need.” This comment leads to my guess on your age. In my day going back to the 50′s the church and neighbors took care of those in need or heaven forbid you took one of those jobs that today no one will take unless they are Mexican. I picked walnuts while in the service for extra money. How about that!

        “We need a central authority to respond to health threats.” Health care has been fine for 90% of the people up until now. It has been recently reported when this health care program get fully implemented that 80% of the doctors will quit there practice, welcome to Cuba.

        “Government shouldn’t be eliminated, just brought back to the People.” No one is saying eliminate government but really scratching my personal item to keep me save from a boggy man that does not exist is not governments place. Obama ran on a platform of ending the war, instead we are going deeper down the rabbit hole. Your children and grand children will pay for this as well as their children and grandchildren. Oh, he got out of Iraq, yes check the Bush time table; December 2011 was the Bush timetable. It’s not our government but it has been high jacked. Stay with this web site along with and check to get up to speed.

        Good luck in the future, you’ll need it!
        p.s. etc…….. is not factual information, it’s opinion without facts.

      • Karolyn

        Guess again, metoman, you have Robert pegged all wrong.

      • DaveH

        No Ted, Robert’s statement does not make sense. His statements rarely do. He is merely spouting conjecture with no facts or logic to back it up.
        Robert says — “We need a central authority for airplanes, trains, etc. to make sure they all play well together”.
        No Robert, the central authorities merely help their crony capitalists to compete unfairly against their competitors. Without the meddling of Big Government, the consumers would decide which airplanes, trains, etc. would succeed by voting with their wallets. Instead those decisions are currently made by self-interested Politicians who depend on the help of their Crony Capitalists to get re-elected.
        Robert says — “We need a central authority to make sure all measurements are the same”.
        What a load. Weights and measures were established by the private sector long before Government stuck their nosy noses into the issue.
        Robert says — “We need a central authority to take care of those who are truly in need”.
        Yeah sure, Robert. People in general, by nature, are compassionate towards their fellow human beings. If money wasn’t being taken by force from the productive private sector, there would be jobs for anybody who wanted to work and plenty of wealth to be shared with those who are truly misfortunate. Government wastes our excess wealth, sharing it with themselves and their cronies, and rather than helping those in need, spends what’s left to buy votes and perpetuate their parasitic existence.
        Robert says — “We need a central authority to respond to health threats”.
        Another load. Government is notoriously inefficient in responding to calamities. And why not? It’s not their money and they suffer no repercussions if they fail to perform. See here for an example:

      • Power To The People

        Yea….thats the problem…all the We Needs!

      • MAP

        Robert is one of the most ignorant posters at this forum. No one should be blamed for ignorance. But he never tries to expand. He remains stuck in his ignorant suppositions. For one to remain beliigerantly ignorant is certainly not a commendable position. You might as well try talking to the wall.

        BTW, welcome back DaveH. I was beginning to wonder what happened to you.

  • pister

    General Georges Sada was a top general in Sadaam’s regime. His accounts of Sadaam’s ambitions and progress and his intentions towards that part of the world and American interests would differ greatly from the opinions contained in this article.

    Hussein was indeed working on fearful weapons of mass destruction and had his military desgned around the over all ambition of destroying Israel. In both Gulf wars.,tt was American destruction of his forces that destroyed his plans. His weapons of mass destruction that ‘did not exist” were shipped to Syria .

    It is unfair to say we got nothing from the wars. We might have gotten what we get from all wars that we are the victors in and that is our own salvation.

    pister pilow

    • Robert Smith

      Really? And just what have we won in Iraq and Afganistan?


      • gunner689AI

        The opportunity to eliminate some very bad people.

      • Jay

        The right, or left, to print more Fiat-Money?

      • revnowwhilewecan

        You really believe that don’t you gunner? I don’t think hedgefunders have timeshares there?

    • Julie

      Not to mention that (1) we cannot possibly know what COULD have been, only what IS ; (2) we were already getting scare-stories and predictions about the faultering Social Security system, etc., and even dates as to how long until it was totally broken and we had to do something NOW; (3) Bush went into office in what many said were bad economic times; and, (4) Bush spent his last two years in office fighting a Democratic-led Congress – a president is generally limited by what a Congress will do and, let’s face it, he was limited!

      • BigBadJohn

        The other side of the coin – Bush had free reign for six years – he got EVERYTHING he wanted. That is where the problems began!

      • Thinking About

        Bush lso had a big checkbook, he never met a dollar or a dollar to be printed in the future he did not want to spend. And to add more he took two companies down before he took the USA down, he was consistant.

    • not a 1% OR 99% just American

      In 2003 I had a conversation with a Leutenant Colonel at Ft Leavenworth, KS who was a member of Sadaam’s Army – There WERE WMDs in Iran, this LTC oversaw the transport of said weapons to Syria. Evidently this fact is one of the “inconvenient truths” we hear so much about.

      • James

        I agree 100%. We found some chemical weapons when I was there in 2006 and 2008. Truth doesn’t matter anymore. The author said that Bush started the Iraq war in 2003. That is just wrong. That war was started on August 2, 1990 when Saddam invaded Kuwait. Desert Storm resulted, followed by 17 U.N. resolutions and then reengagement in 1993. I guess Desert Storm never happened. Odd, I remember being there for it in 1991.

      • Dale left coast

        There was also several tons of Yellowcake . . . remember Valerie’s krazy boyfriend said it was never there. It was shipped to Canada . . .
        Bush overspent 4 Trillion in EIGHT Years . . . but the present occupant has spent almost 6 Trillion in less than 4 years . . . nothin to see here folks ! ! !

      • Sheryn

        To Dale… But what did they spend it on????

  • Maynard6701

    For someone who is so dead set against Obama, then you try and destroy Romney, who are you pushing now. Does this really help you image or your goals or are yours worst than Obama”s.

  • Babs Wratten

    Do none of you remember the attacks on 4 planes that killed 2996 people??
    Concocted an excuse, my a$$!

    • BigBadJohn

      13 Saudi’s attack the USA and we invade Iraq?????

      Please explain how that was justified…..

      • cawmun cents

        You cannot explain things to people who wont listen.When you have already made up your mind,why are you asking for an explaination?
        That is the real question you should be asking yourself.

      • James

        There was this thing called Desert Shield and Desert Storm, look it up. That caused the Iraq Invasion in 2003.

    • mark

      But this attack and those killed had nothing whatsover to do with Iraq. So why did the Bush admin attack Iraq. Oh, sorry I forgot. It was to get those weapons of mass destruction. No one is allowed to have them accept the United States and its allies.

      • Dale left coast

        Mark . . . they were also harboring and financing terrorists . . . plus, the majority of Congress voted their approval, even many Dimmicraps. Sadim even admitted has gave the impression he had WMD’s . . . if you had been paying attention you would know that.
        Iraq was also a better place to fight than Afganistan, devout muzzzie terrorists came from all over the world, even the US, to fight the great satan/
        Mark . . . if you want a sample of life in the future . . . move to Dearborn . . .

      • mark

        But Dale, the Iraq War costs taxpayers $1 trillion dollars in borrowed Chinese money, over 4000 U.S. dead, 40,000 thousand wounded, crippled, and paraplegics. It accomplished nothing, as the terrorism still goes on in Iraq today and thanks to the U.S. invasion, the country may very well break up into 3 different warring states. The fact that fanatical Muslim terrorists went to Iraq from all over the Islamic world to fight our forces, simply shows how counterproductive the whole effort there was: the U.S. invasion created more terrorists as they were convinced we were attempting to occupy one of the four great cities of Islamic civilization. If the U.S. invades Morocco tomorrow, eventually thousands of Islamic resistance fighters will gather there to oppose the U.S. military occupation also. So is this a logical reason for Washington to invade Morocco? And as for the Iraqi gov’t supporting anti-U.S. terrorists, quite the contrary Sadaam despised Al Qaeda and Bin Ladin. They were Islamists while Sadaam led a secularist regime. Sadaam tortured, killed, and imprisoned hundreds of thousands of Islamist Shiites. He was the world’s greatest killer of Islamic radicals. And for this we invaded him! Sadaam did support anti-Israel resistance fighters. Israel has imposed an illegal military occupation of the West Bank for 45 years now. But there is a difference between anti-Israel resistance fighters and anti-U.S. terrorists. Unless you believe as many on this site do (and this includes the powerful Israeli Lobby), that Israel and the United States are one and the same.

      • Don_in_DC

        I agree with Mark. Sometimes I think the real key to world peace would happen if all these radicals did have nukes. When everyone has the same technology it makes people think twice about attacking their neighbor. We all too often think we are the only ones allowed to have the nukes because the others are too crazy even though we are the only country to every use a nuke on another country. And we may not have known the result the first time around we surely did on the second drop but still did it. We also aimed our nukes at USSR, Cuba, etc many times just to verify we could pull the trigger quickly if we needed to.

        I am sure many disagree but we have no right to say Iran can’t have nukes because we think they will use them inappropriately. The same thing was said about China and the USSR but did they ever use them? Just because someone has a different religion and lives in a different country doesn’t mean you have a right to tell them how to prioritize their spending. Ironic that our legal system believes that all people are free and innocent until proof of guilt too. In those terms we really are the most hypocritical nation in the history of the world. Nukes are a far better deterrent than they are as an offensive weapon because the world isn’t going to accept a government using them. It would be immediate destruction if you did.

  • Kevin Beck

    Bill Kristol, the bane of modern intelligence, would do the world a favor by moving to his spritual homeland of Russia. Then maybe he could work on the destruction of Putin the same way he has made the demise of America possible.

    When it comes to havoc, nobody wreaks like Bill Kristol.

  • Louis Lemieux

    World stability,as much as possible, is essential to the US and world economic progress. As to the end of the world it won’t happen now, the expiration date for my cookies is Feb. 2014! ☺

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      I don’t know what kind of cookies you’re eating, but if they have enough preservatives to last until 2014, I wouldn’t eat them! :-)

  • http://Yahoo Eddie Holcomb

    Hey guys I just finished the book by Joel Rosenburg, IMPLOSION excellent reading if you like bible prophesey. It goes along with what is being said in this article, we as citizens should be concerned, we should vote our convictions, but dont think that a political party of any kind will pull us out of this state we are in, Our country needs to turn back to God because in the end God and his people win. This the only way.

    • Don_in_DC

      Eddie you couldn’t be more wrong. God doesn’t seem to have money either and he doesn’t even pay taxes.

      The government will rob grandma of her savings before they tax a church. Most of you religious types will accept that logic too which makes me question how much you really learned about morality.

  • Warrior

    Well, I hope you progressives are finally satisfied. Utopia may be closer then you think. BTW, did anyone hear what chuckie schumer said about those people making over $1 mil a year. According to chuckie, they can’t be trusted to spend the extra money the gubmint allows them to keep, sooo taxing them more is certainly justified in his mind! Of course, his leader thinks it’s also those junior millionaires that make $200K/yr that can’t be trusted to spend all their money as well.

    What’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine is in the mind of these dolts.

    What was that poll that was reported last week about 30% of the polled of likely voters don’t pay attention to current events? Really! What, has voting just become a selection of your favorite color?

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Sadly, there are too many people allowed to vote that are ignorant of any reality. There should be a test on current events, the constitution, etc. put into place in ENGLISH only. If you cannot pass it, you cannot vote.

      • cawmun cents

        Ah yes…but who will be the moderator?-CC.

    • nc

      WARRIOR, I consider myself a progressive as apposed to a conservative because I believe it was that mindset that looked to the future instead of holding on to the present and past that took us from a piney woods country to number one in the world! A place like no other in the world nor in history!!!!! Did we make mistakes? Yes! Have those more conservative than the progressives made mistakes? Yes!
      We are where we are today because of what bush and the Heritage Foundation promised Congress and the American people WOULD HAPPEN with bush’s tax policy DIDN’T HAPPEN! Those AMERICANS with the biggest taxcuts didn’t create ENOUGH jobs and revenues with their tax savings to produce the SURPLUSES that were PROMISED! They sent them offshore to ‘foreign” banks! Not a big job creater! Why do the big companies have their biggest cash reserves ever? They stuck the ‘tax savings” in their “pocket”/ HELLO???
      That was not what was promised! I won’t even go into the broken promises of two wars that were also a drain on the REDUCED REVENUES FROM THE OTHER BROKEN PROMISE! It has all the earmarks of a compound fracture that ocurred BEFORE OBAMA AND HIS GROUP ARRIVED ON THE SCENE!
      It is a pity that all of the “true conservatives” with all of the right answers chose to remain a ‘second cousin” to the Republican Party with it’s heritage of hoover, nixon and the two bushes!
      Better luck the next time when Arizona gives you enough land for your own country and the Koch brothers supply you your necessities!

      • DaveH

        Funny how you credit the Progressives with the wealth of America, but say nothing about the fact that we are currently in the greatest economic calamity since the Great Depression which was also a result of Progressivism. Hoping and Dreaming do not make reality.
        If only we could split the country in two, with your touted Progressives occupying one half, and the True Conservatives occupying the other half. All the lip service you can muster would pale in comparison to the reality of the actual results.
        The world in replete with examples of the failed Socialism touted by self-serving Progressive leaders and swallowed hook, line, and sinker by the ignorant Progressive followers.

      • Dale left coast

        nc . . . you are in good company . . . Mussolini called himself a “Progressive” . . . as did Woodrow Wilson . . . Progressives were the forefathers of the movements that took over Italy and Germany in the 20′s and 30′s.
        Your definition of Conservative and Progressives is just plain SILLY . . . America rose to greatness back in the day because even Dimmicraps of the 40′s and 50′s would be considered radical right-wingers by today’s standard. Go listen to a few of jFK’s 1960 Speaches. The problem with the left today . . . it is more in tune with the Mussolini’s of the world than the US Constitution.

      • bigchas40

        I can’t wait to see the reply…

        Top All-Time Donors, 1989 to 2012 Unions vs Koch Industries


        American Fedn of State, County, and Municipal Employees $47,869,048
        Service Employees International Union $38,819,186
        National education Assn $38,284,919
        Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $34,928,253
        American Federation of Teachers $32,850,516
        Teamsters Union $32,657,878
        Laborers Union $32,629,200
        Carpenters & Joiners Union $31,622,758
        Communications Workers of America $31,271,197
        United Food & Commercial Workers Union $27,981,755
        United Auto Workers $27,926,225
        Machinists and Aerospace Workers Union $27,379,727
        National Assn of Letter Carriers $22,699,084
        AFL-CIO $22,263,800
        Sheet Metal Workers Union $19,737,520
        International Assn of Fire Fighters $19,154,293
        Plumbers and Pipefitters Union $19,010,856
        Operating Engineers Union $18,232,474
        Airline Pilots Assn $17,281,597
        United Transportation Union $15,263,410
        United Steelworkers $15,123,146
        Ironworkers Union $15,074,374
        American Postal Workers Union $14,046,823
        Total $602,108,049

        Koch Industries $12,687,199

      • Don_in_DC

        NC, I am all for you progressives having your programs once you pay for them.

        Until then why don’t we make it fair and say you can keep your money and I keep mine and we are both allowed to do with it what we may.

        Another post was correct, you have numerous examples of socialism and progressives in the world so why do you need to change this country into that? You can go to China right now and never have to worry again about all those pesky conservatives. No four year elections, no contrary party or opinion, a very efficient legal system, socialized medicine. What makes you want to hang around here?

        • Jeff


          Could you direct me to the “Love it or leave it” clause in the Constitution?

  • Dry Cake

    Afganistan was not a “concocted ” war it was justified Iraq was Another story and although Iraq violated as many as 10 UN resolutions the UN did nothing proving how worthless they really are.
    The Bush administration with full approval of congress took matters into their own hands with the thought that Iraqis could be logical and civilized once the oppression of the Hussean family of thugs were removed. They were wrong the rest of the country seems to need oppression to function our mistake is looking at the world through our eyes instead of their eyes.
    People of oppressed and impoverished countries allways want to come here but then they want to turn here into there.

    • Ted G

      Accurate and not uncommon thinking!

    • Thinking About

      Would your thoughts be teh same if Saddam had declared Bush bad for the USA and needed to be removed? It is not our place to decide who should be removed and who should stay.

      • Ted G

        Worthy of serious discussion and debate.When pondering this concern I cannot help but think what I would do If I were to witness an atrocity (Pick one of your choice).

        For the most part this is how I expand to how I would handle this on a larger scale ie how our country responds to same.

    • Dale left coast

      Thinking ? ? ? Bout time you started a little of that, don’t you THINK?
      Sadim, through his Media guy hurled all kinds of stuff at the US, as we saw in the Gulf War, Sadim could not even hold on to Kuwait . . . so how do propose he would have attacked the US?
      Was keeping Iran at bay . . . so nuts ! ! !

  • http://Yahoo Gwyman86

    I love America because she is where I was born. I have 6 children and they are all doing well and surviving I have 9 grandchildren they are all loved and taken care of. My husband is retired Air Force 22 years. I have been alot of places but do not choose to live there. My father was a Democrat was a legislative lobbyist for the AFLCIO. I am independent because I believe that Government has fendementally become greed mankind has lot its way no matter if you are Rebulican or democrat. The Romans were horrible people, the Greeks just as bad. Remember one issue American has fought for everyones independence at the expense of her own people, Europe and the rest of the world are a mess for there want and disire for Americas help and she respond and Her doctors lawyers Politicians bankers military personnel did anyone ask the American people in a vote if we wanted to defend and protect every country in this world change them and there ways to pay homage to America. Right now America has the smell of death !

  • Jim Threadgill

    Here is a man whothinkks like a calculator. He has interesting economic information,but his ideas on fighting the wars we have fought reveal a globalist mentality and he does not seem to comprehend that when 3000 people are killed then we have to do something to protect the citizens of this country.He seems to be thinking with his checkbook.

    • mark

      Yes but what you don’t do, Jim, after 3000 people are killed is invade a country, Iraq, that had nothing whatsoever to do with the attack that killed those 3000 people. Most Americans recognize this today. You are apparently one who does not.

      • cawmun cents

        Yes but here is a question.
        Since all those who actively participated in the attacks were killed,who then do you hold responsible?
        Isnt that a pertinent question?
        If you have an entity that has no national ties,no place to hang its weary head,then who do you go after when you need to find this entity?
        My idea,is that you root out all of its hiding spots,much like you would say a gopher,or some other verminous creature,right?
        It is only common sense to take action of some kind whether right or wrong can only be told after you find out if the infestation has ceased,correct?
        The problem here is the condition of your critical thinking,not of the intent of those who can actually think using reason.
        So then the question becomes,why are you ignorant of how to kill a varmint?
        It is a seek and destroy mission,you dolt.
        You have to know where to look.Apparently because you listen to the media/academia outlets,that are too busy brainwashing you to tell you any truth,you think that the looking was done in places which had no merit.But then you are too busy making it about politics,rather than about finding places where the vermin have been sighted.
        This goes back to how far your head is implanted in your own backside.
        If you find a place where vermin are welcome,like uh er…your neighbors,neighbors yard,and you wonder why you keep getting infested,it is because you didnt do your homework,and find out just how bad the infestation is in your neighbors,neighbors yard.
        Am I making any sense to you,or just pounding my head on a brickwall of your lack of reasoning?

      • mark

        But CC, we knew were Al Qaeda was. In Afghanistan and along the tribal regions of Pakistan. This was no mystery. All their leadership, their training facilities, and their strategic planning for the assault came from these regions. Not from Iraq where secularist Sadaam Hussein had persecuted, tortured, and slaugthered hundreds of thousands of Islamist Shiites for years. Sadaam remains the world greatest killer of radical Islamist in recorded history. And for this, we overthrew and killed him. Now, his state of Iraq is much more Islamist and allied with Iran than it ever was in centuries. Sadaam was a ferocious enemy of Iran and killed one half million Iranians in his war with them 1980-1988 that we supported.

      • cawmun cents

        First let me say that I understand the dynamics of the Iraq war.
        I also understand that you cannot accurately equate gophers and Al Quaeda.It was my attempt to simplify for all the readers,the situation which you find yourself in when you let vermin go unchecked.These men(AlQuaeda)will go wherever they can find sympathy for their cause which in effect is anywhere in the Islamic world.So there is the tendency to eliminate possible places for vermin to hide as well as places where they are actively found.

        Having said that,you will understand that my claim is and always had been that George Bush saw an opportunity to clean his fathers mess up,and eliminate a hidey-hole for AlQuaeda at the same time.So he took that opportunity and it grew into a bigger mess than he had anticipated,because of political interference from his detractors.

        Back to the point.
        You cannot erradicate every vermin that exists.So the emphasis is on careful management.
        Since Saddam Hussein had already been at war with Iran for ten years before all this began,one can see if one looks into the future,where he might invite those vermin into his nation,to encite the nations against Iran or any other political rival.Having had Russian occupation for a decade,Afghanistan was ripe for this type of vermin to be accepted.the difference being that when Russia pulled out,they left entirely.We will clearly not make that mistake in Iraq.
        So it will be much more difficult for the vermin to have sanctuary in Iraq,as careful monitoring will be continual.Am I making any sense?
        Those in charge of knowing the goings on here and there have a pretty good estimator for understanding the rammifications of their actions,but need to weigh those things with doing nothing and leaving the vermin to thrive.
        That is where folks get mixed up about how they feel things should be done.The cost of leaving messes around the world can meet and exceed the cleaning of them if over time they are not dealt with.That is the situation which we may have faced in Iraq,had we not cleaned the mess we promised to clean before we leave this time.
        ou have to see more than the clearly visable to be tactically strong,but most folks just dont get that part.They see the surface but ignore the icebergs 90% which lurks dangerously underneath.

      • Don_in_DC

        CC I guess I don’t see how you can justify invading Iraq on the idea that they might do something bad in the future. That rational could be used anywhere.

        So here is the thing. FDR didn’t jump into WW2 even when Churchill begged for our help because he didn’t have enough support from the people to declare war. He had to wait until Japan attacked us to get enough support for the action.

        The reason we declare war is because it isn’t supposed to be easy to do and it is a clear display of our anger with a nation. This got changed in Vietnam when the government found a loop hole and could call something a police action and sidestep the political issues. No no, we aren’t at war, we are just helping people over there. The presidents ability to send troops in without a declaration of war is meant to handle the quick response that is sometimes needed to protect the country. It can be pretty much accepted that if you have time to debate the issue then you should declare war so that more than 1 person is wielding the power of the most advanced military on the planet. This is meant to PREVENT abuse of power.

        Nothing in all this justifies a police action against Afghanistan, much less Iraq. If a US radical group that isn’t associated with the government attacks a foreign country you sure wouldn’t like that country invading the US as retaliation. And if that didn’t bother you then I’m sure that if a radical group from the UK invaded Russia you would be bothered when Russia attacks the US because we both speak English. Iraq was 100% about Bush trying to fix a problem that his father didn’t. He didn’t like Saddam and Bush Sr. wasn’t willing to target him directly in the first desert storm so it should have been left at that but it wasn’t. There was no other reason. Presidents can’t just attack because of their family drama.

        Now yes Americans were upset over 911 and many wanted retaliation but that doesn’t mean it was right to do so. It absolutely was not right to let that desire for revenge overpower our President to make a rash decision and yet it wasn’t rash. He had plenty of time to think about that decision and declare war but he didn’t. The public can be excused, the President cannot. He used the most powerful force on Earth to execute his personal agenda. No matter how you slice that it is wrong. Even if Iraq had WMDs it wouldn’t have made the decision any more right. If Iraq was using WMDs on another country then you might have some justification for a response but even that is hard to say 100%.

        To use your example, we are not responsible to kill all the Gophers in other countries. That is an abuse of power. The “neighbors” didn’t ask for our help, the vermin were not known to exist there and the POTUS used a threat of WMDs to rationalize his decision without proof and then bypass the Constitution to make it happen. Not a single good thing in this and several bad things are obvious. Take away the moral implications, we were too damn broke already to do this stupid waste of money.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      The author of the article believes that 9/11 was plotted and planned by people in our own government as a means of frightening our people into allowing the government to take away our rights. After 9/11 the patriot act was passed which allows the government to conduct searches without warrants. It allows them to tap anyone’s phone without a warrant. Then the government passed the ndaa, which allows the government to arrest and imprison anyone without presenting evidence against them. It takes away our right to an attorney. The government can lock you up forever without ever showing that it has any evidence that you did anything wrong. 9/11 also allowed the formation of the department of homeland security, which was developed to harass and control the American people. If you look into what the department of homeland security is really about, you will be shocked. They are labeling American patriots as terrorists instead of the muslim groups that supposedly carried out 9/11. Our country is currently working with and supporting al quaida in the middle east.

      There are a LOT of people, including experts who believe that 9/11 was an inside job. When I first heard this, I thought it was an outrageous claim but after MUCH research, I have to say that there is an enormous amount of data out there to support this. I suggest that you start by going to Paul Craig Robert’s (the author of this article) web site. Look at his credentials. Read his articles. You will be intrigued. Then, go from there. Keep an open mind and continue to research. See what you think after you’ve researched it.

  • Ted Crawford

    MAN YET ANOTHER, of these ” American Imperialists” RANTS ! At some point one would think that you would realize that this plays to a very, very small portion of the population ! Let’s just declare that since July 5, 1776 America has been an Imperialistic Government. Perhaps then we might address the real problems on a more regular basis !
    Have mistakes been made? YES! However some Wars are necessary, Iraq not being one of them ! The worst possible response to armed agression, is to do NOTHING! That encourages more of the same behavior by the agressors!

    • mark

      Actually, Ted, Americans were imperialistic well before July 4, 1776. The American colonists of the British empire stole the lands of the Amerindians at the point of a gun, violating treaties that they signed, slaughtering thousands of Amerindians due to their land lust and crazed religious beliefs that God had given this country to them and that to killing people in order take their land was perfectly justifed. Israel and South Africa operated under the same “chosen people”/manifest destiny/”we’re exceptional and you’re dead because you are living on our land” principles. This goes way back to the “Citty on a hill” nonsense of the Puritans and the first Virginia conquerors ( they preferred to call themselves settlers – only of course they were settling on other peoples’ lands). They would continue this process for centuries, that would also include taking the land of Spaniards and Mexicans and scores of other Indian nations.
      I accept the fact that the nation I live in and am a citizen of was founded on massive killing and land theft. Others just can’t deal with this historical reality and insist on swallowing whole all the nationalist propaganda and fairy tales that we have all been fed since kindegarten. I look around today and see the United States as the most imperialist nation on earth with over 800 military bases in 120 countries, a massive military that patrols the globe, invades other countries, and deliberately foments wars in the name of “freedom.” But I understand fully that most Americans cannot accept this and embrace the Pledge of Allegiance, Declaration of Independence view of our national identiy that we have been all spoon-fed since we were kids. I just can’t do it anymore. I also don’t believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny — even as I realize millions of Americans sincerely do.

      • Ted Crawford

        One can’t help but wonder Mark, if you find us such a dispicable, evil, corrupted Nation you would suffer yourself to endure our hospitality ! The borders are still open you know and there aree many countries that share your beliefs, North Korea, Iran, Syria, Venezuela,Yemen, China, Russia. Feel free to exercise your right to exit this horrable country!
        L’Umanita created a categogy just for those who think like you back in 1948, everyday that title is earned by your bretheren !

      • Dale left coast

        Mark . . . Americans Imperialist? Where and when?
        Americans stole the land from the Indians . . . myth . . . they were mostly living nomadic lives, it was a tribal society, they fought, killed and enslaved competing tribes.
        Using your logic Mark . . . there would be no Germany today, no England . . . did the Indians get treated badly, probably, but your failed reasoning is laughable ! ! !
        Mark . . . how did you feel about Stalin taking over most of Eastern Europe . . . was the Imperialist?

      • mark

        This is just our history, Ted. And I find it no less despicable than the history of most other nations. I just don’t buy and never have bought this whole notion of our being so exceptional and special. We simply operate as most powerful nations do, enforcing our will on others to get our way – through violence and force. The founder of this website Bob Livingston agree with most of this as well and has said so in column after column. All great powers and empires operate in similar fashion. And as to Dale, well of course this is how most nations were founded or expanded by conquering the lands of their neighbors through force, violence and terror. And of course Stalin’s grip on Eastern Europe as well as on Mongolia, North Korea, and all the Central Asian, Caucasian, Baltic, and Ukrainian regions, was imperialistic. None of those peoples wanted Soviet control over their lands but were forced to accept it after horrific violence and terror. Just as the defeated Amerindians peoples were forced to accept U.S. dominations after so many of them had been slaughtered, starved, and terrorized. Also many of the Ameridians peoples, especially those East of the Mississippi were patently NOT nomadic. And even with the so-called nomadic Plains Indians, the U.S. signed treaties with them recognizing THEIR LANDS with clear, legal, and demarcated boundaries – and then massively violated these very same, U.S.-signed, codified treaties when gold was discoverd in the Black Hills or settler pressures became politically powerful. This is just the historical record. I am not making this stuff up. The massively violated treaties are all in the U.S. National Archives in College Park, MD and on-line as well. This is all basic history to anyone who has taken an Indian or U.S. Westward Expansion history course.

      • Karolyn

        Unfortunately, you are absolutely right, mark. The blood that was shed and the vile acts that were committed due to the expansion of this country are nothing to be proud of.

      • Don_in_DC

        Mark is correct and saying that he should live in North Korea for a common view is a bit of a leap. Our history is based on some negative things and most histories are. Just because you recognize the flaws of the past doesn’t mean you deserve insults. Recognizing our role in the world doesn’t mean you side with the biggest enemies to freedom, come on.

        The bigger issue isn’t the past it is the present. We PRESENTLY enforce our will upon the world. We were taught to hate the red menace and yet China has a surplus and I don’t see them doing the expansion we are guilty of. Does that mean I think China is perfect? No. We are imperialist and we disguise it behind the label of democracy. Half or more of the countries we liberate end up with a worse problem than they had when we went in. We support regimes that we end up fighting later.

        That is exactly why Ron Paul is the only one with a good idea on foreign policy and yet that is where he is probably hated the most. We aren’t good at meddling with others and we can’t afford it. We can’t stop the military machine though because there is too much money in it. It has very little to do with our ethics in the world and much more about our greed. Sure we talk about it being to help others but it isn’t. It is to help ourselves. Recognize the flaws for what they are.

        Invading Afghanistan wasn’t about removing the Taliban or whatever because the Taliban wasn’t the government of Afghanistan. We supplied Bin Laden with arms anyway. He’s a perfect example of our errors in foreign policy. If we had never supplied him then he would never have become an issue to us. People choked when it was implied that we brought the terrorism of 911 on ourselves but we did. If we had never been involved in the middle east they would have had no reason to attack us. The US likes to be arrogant and think everything is done with a moral agenda but there is plenty of evidence to show that is 100% incorrect. We make ourselves a target with our policy and then we demonize anyone that resists us. If you look at our list of enemies you can generally find a time where we supported them. Remove the support and the attacks and we could have avoided TRILLIONS. Save that crap for the Hitlers of the world and yet WW2 is another great example…we would have never been involved in that if they didn’t attack us. Churchill begged for our help and it was considered unpopular by the citizens. Remove all that meddling we did and the world would probably still be pretty similar to how it is except we would have a surplus. The money we spent on wars, on drugs, on so many things hasn’t produced anything good as a result.


          . How true, we remain in a state of self-denial for since declaration of Independence. The constitution at the time it was written applied to white only. It was written by slave masters.
” Author ‘’Seeing Red’’ ‘How America is losing the future’ Available at:

  • Ted G

    Some rather disjointed items in the title I think.
    Proliferate and excessive Federal government mismanagement and spending got us here, the wars contribution cannot be denied but probabaly a whole seperate article for that subject. But putting them out front as you do here is a bit dishonest.

    As for SS that is totally BS to be lumped into this as it was supposed to be a seperate and self sustained program. Yea I know it was also really kinda like a pyramid scheme/ponzi however you want to look at it. But it was basically stolen by the government and used as their own little treasure chest…until it ran out. Now we have to pay for it twice.
    Imagine if the two trillion dollars + that was spent by our corrupt goverment over these last several decades was still in a seperate account earning interest etc. how solvent SS would be today?! Imagine what good that could be accomplishing for our seniors for quite some time.

    But by all means, attempt to place or maybe misplace a large part of the blame primarily on foreign policy. The rest of this article I can accept for the most part.

  • Steve E

    I think that if 100% of Americans actually knew the dire economic situation of this country (i.e. the country is broke beyond repair) as it is now, there would be pandemonium everywhere. There may be a good point to make about that this, however, and that would be that those that are “in the know”, will have more time to prepare for the big crash before chaos sets in, thus, it will be too late for many to do anything about it. The early bird gets the worm.

  • Vietnam6871

    The two wars definitely helped raise the debt ceiling. We should have just gone into Afghanistan and crushed the Taliban (as we did) and then left. That was the mistake, to stay. I saw action in Vietnam and watched the politicians screw that war up even worse than Iraq and Afghanistan (although they may yet top the debacle in Vietnam). But the wars alone would not have done us in if we didn’t already have the socialist “entitlement” society well underway. Unless we greatly modify or eliminate Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, we are doomed. The world is laughing at DC and Obama. They are incredulous as to how stupid our politicians are and how they (we) are destroying ourselves. Travel to Europe and Asia and you will find out what I am saying is true. Thanks, particularly to the current administration, we are no longer looked upon as “the superpower” and have become the butt of jokes.

    • Karolyn

      Oh, we “crushed the Taliban”? Seems to me they ain’t goin’ nowhere.

      • coal miner


        You are right
        The Taliban had executed a woman the other day for adultry,the crowd cheered execution.

      • Jay

        Adultery is a serious violation of the “Marriage Covenant”! However, i do not agree that adultery warrants execution.

      • 45caliber

        coal miner:

        You are right; they did. However, from what I can understand from various stories, it isn’t so much that she committed adultry – it was that the two men in question were both Taliban leaders who both wanted her. She was one’s wife but the other wanted her too. It was finally decided that if they fought over her that one of them would be killed/whatever and the Taliban needed them both. So they shot her to insure they couldn’t fight over her any more. She was 22. They used the adultry excuse since they didn’t want to really explain that the men had the problem. And, in a way due to their convoluted thinking, it was adultry. After all, both men wanted her.

    • Thinking About

      So Mr Vietnam, if you was in bin Laden’s shoes when the SEALS arrived would you consider the current adminstration is a joke?

      • Dale left coast

        Think . . . when the Seals arrived? What’s your point?
        Your hero was on the Golf Course shouting FOUR! ! !

        • Jeff


          The term is “fore” and if hanging out on the golf course was all it took, then W (stands for “watch this drive”) should have had him in weeks.

    • gunner689AI

      We face the same situation in Afgan. we faced in Nam. The enemy has a safe haven to hide in and regroup. { Laos, Cambodia, now Pakistan.} Lesson we seem to fail to learn: don,t go to war unless you intend to win it. Short, violent, and conclusive. Damn the nation builing and collateral damage. To do otherwise wastes time, money, and American lives.

      • Don_in_DC

        Actually this isn’t the same situation as in Vietnam at all. The Vietnam government had a civil war and many were involved in it. The Taliban is a small group of radicals that we in fact supplied long ago. Vietnam was a case where another major government supplied troops and supplies to one side and we did the same to the other. The Taliban recruits people and buys weapons but you can’t say they are supplied by a major government with troops. Vietnam was a direct target to change the government system. The Taliban wants to wage war across the world against its enemies without a direct goal to install it’s own government into the region. Vietnam never attacked US soil, the Taliban did. You would do much better to find a better comparison.

        True we shouldn’t have been involved in either though. At the time Vietnam was advertised as us trying to save the Vietnamese that wanted democracy and to protect them from outside invaders (i.e. China). Afghanistan was a stepping stone to attack other parts of the middle east (Iraq) without any direct ties to the initial conflict.

        The biggest difference though is that after 911 Americans wanted blood and it gave our leaders an excuse to promote their agenda of removing Saddam. Americans keep thinking it is their divine right to enforce their ideals on the parts of the world that seem different than us. Terrorism isn’t a large scale government based conflict and is instead a small group of people willing to cause damage to a superior force without a concern for their own survival. Spending 6 trillion to “teach those Muslims a lesson” only shows that we played right into their hands. That is exactly what they wanted us to do. We could have handled that a lot better just like we could have handled Vietnam better too.

        I agree that if you are going to fight then fight to win but nothing says you have to go broke chasing a few rebels. The repeating theme in the US is that we need to show off our military might and it’s like the more we spend doing it, the better we feel our superiority is proven. Nothing about Afghanistan and Iraq shows efficiency in dealing with our enemy but instead shows we can throw a lot of money to make no real difference. You think killing Bin Laden was worth 6 trillion? For every Taliban we killed we probably added 2 more to their recruitment.

        • Charles Moore

          Both North and South Viet nam had Central Governments. Afghanistan has none. It is a loose network of tribal chiefs. You didn’t have Countries with more sophisticated terrorist weapons as you do today. The maiming of our troops is much more violent and devastating in Afghanistan today. Pakistan which is needed for supply for our troops etc is not really a 100% ally. Pakistan also has a Nuclear weapon. We should not be in Afghanistan.,

  • Noone Special

    I’ve not read this article; however, strictly based on the title, it is a myopic assessment that is miss leading and false. If the Constitution is the framework that has defined enumerated powers that limit the Federal Government, then the spending money on unconstitutional programs and powers is tyrannical at the least. In 1972, unconstitutional spending exceeded Constitutional spending, and is now 2 to 1 if not more. Near as I can tell the Federal Government has enumerated powers to spend money on war and national defense. If your spouse had a gambling problem would you give them the check book? No, and the liberal entrenched in Washington have been gambling America on Social programs and other non-Constitutional programs. You want to fix the problem, get back into the framework of the Constitution, or stay on the path of bankruptcy… Simple choice. This is an easier problem to fix and spells out the fix…

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      If you didn’t even BOTHER to read the article, you SHOULDN’T be commenting on it! That is one of the problems in this country! People who don’t even take the trouble to educate themselves on a subject still think they should spout off on their opinions! If the people in this country don’t take the time to research issues and find out what is really going on, we are doomed! Read it! Educate yourself! Don’t be an ignorant idiot who THINKS they know what they’re talking about!!!

  • kelkal

    charles moore got it right!

  • Kenny

    Charles Moore I didnot live beyond my means and still got hurt I was an owner of a small engineering firm in Mesquite NV. and when the housing fell so did my work and all I had. Even tho I could easily afford all I had as long as I had work. So are you telling me that you should live prepared to have no income at all????? Please advise

    • Thinking About

      I would like to see this answered also.

    • Ted Crawford

      I was advised by my father, when I took my first job, that my first expense was always to myself. At the very least 10% of every dime I earned was to be put into an account untill I could fund my lifestyle for a year at ’0′ income. That has served me well in this crisis !

      • Kenny


  • PGHYinzer33

    Well, aren’t we screwed now… The election is already paid for, so Obama is going to be our king again… Our king is going to start another war with Iran.. this is already scheduled, just don’t know when, and our King is going to take our guns away on July 27… time for another revolution,.. oh, forgot the people are too poor to rise up against the kingdom of USSA…

    • PGHYinzer33

      Our country is in such danger, it is time to flip the flag…

  • Carl

    Our ‘friendship’ with Israel is making us BROKE.

    • Ted Crawford

      How so Carl ? The terms of our Aid Agreement with Israel states that at least 85% of that money MUST be used to purchase goods and services provided by American Companies. Those who complain the loudest about this aid are the same ones that claim that Clinton left a surplus. His phantom surplus was created by claiming SS tax revenues paid in but ignoring SS Benefits paid out. The true answer requires that we examine both sides of any equation! Looking out of only one eye gives us a warped perspective on anything !

    • Oneguess


  • CB

    To those that say the candidates are the same, they are not. The difference between Obama and Romney is that Romney is a patriot. Obama lied to the Country when he ran as a Christian, but he now admits to being a muslin. And the lies have never stopped. At least we know that Romney is a Morman and he has no intention of trying to convert the Country to Mormanism. Can’t say that about Obama, considering the growing influence of muslins in this Country. Also, Obama is a socialist and Romney is a capitalist. No one can say there is no difference between the two.
    In answer to Kenny: Yes! Save,save, save for the proverbial rainy day.

    • Thinking About

      Rmoney is probably the very best flipflopper ever, probably the first candidate who is for everything. As many times as Obama has said he is a christian and you still state he is a muslim then you need to check your own truth, it would serve you well.

      • Dale left coast

        Your guy had broken practically every promise he ever made . . .
        Did he not say “my Mooslime faith” while being interviewed? How many folks say that?
        I have never said that, why would a person say that? Because it probably was the Truth. One of the few times the Pinocheo in the WH has come clean.
        Thinking . . . why don’t you write down all the things you know about the mystery man in the WH . . . as i said in 08 . . . this guy has the thinnest resume of any candidate in history . . . 4 years later have proved my correct.

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      You might want to switch to lemonade. That kool aid is affecting your thinking processes. romney-obummer=same thing. Do more research!

    • Jeff


      It’s MorMON and he’s relying on MorONs to vote for him. What will his private sector experience equip him to do – sell off Detroit as an underperforming asset?

      • macgyver1948

        Jeff… “CB: It’s MorMON and he’s relying on MorONs to vote for him. What will his private sector experience equip him to do – sell off Detroit as an underperforming asset?”

        I agree with you Jeff if only in theory about Romney but I fear it will be in practice too. Romney is owned by Koch and he is the Bain Businessman he claims we need in the Oval Office and that will kill us as he also did with his job-outsourcing as Governor of Massachusetts. His words – “it was all done in the name of good business”.

        As for the claims CB made about Obama admitting he is Muslim and his proof are those videos. I have watched many of those videos and any one with at least a high double digit IQ can see the very obvious editing. There are frames removed and there were, on some videos, frames from other videos inserted. I have seen other GOP TP videos of Obama on other subjects and they were stopped before they were finished and before the truth be known. I also saw the full versions of those interviews and they present a totally different interpretation of what Obama was saying. Do real God loving religious people do these kinds of misrepresentations of the truth?

        Obama says he is Christan but I really do not care what he is. His religion is his business and should never be a political issue. Do we have to forget ‘Freedom Of Religion’ to hate him that much?

        I also do not care what religion Romney is but, God forbid, if he gets elected and he inflicts his religious beliefs into his policy making he should be arrested and tried for Constitutional violations and that goes for what ever religion a politician is. Just my love for the Constitution speaking. Religion does not belong in the politics of a free and democratic nation but morality does.

  • john

    When you state uemployment statistics dont forget to add in all the worthless lazy people on welfare.

  • Jamie Cameron

    China is true to there own Interest as well, a space station Humm” with a Dr, Evil Laser Beam power that will blast the Doors the Fed. Gangsters, and any where else they want to Laser beam. then come and take all the Gold,Wow” Look out folks , we get to deal with it BC the self serving elected cash grabbing Gangsters.

  • Ron

    “When President George W. Bush concocted an excuse to order the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.” Concocted?? Really. I guess the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon were no good reasons.

    • Thinking About

      Bush concocted an excuse to invade Iraq, he placed more troops in Iraq than Afghanistan so his aim was Iraq all the time. If WMD’s had been found Bush would probably have had a parade in every city in the US but I still have not seen the first parade yet. He wanted Saddam removed because he threatened his daddy and opened opportunities for Iran to get out of hand for as long as Saddam was in Iraq Iran was not threatening the rest of the world. Now that is some great result.

      • Dale left coast

        Bush merely repeated the at the time opinions of the various Intelligence Agencies. Even high-ranking dimmicraps at the time said “Iraq was an imminent threat”. Kerry, Kennedy, Klinton, Albright and many others all agreed. Even loopy Al Bore made a similar statement.
        Iraq had 17 UN resolutions it had ignored, Koffie Anon was making a fortune with his son in the Oil for Food scam . . .
        And Congress voted overwhelmingly to attack Iraq, even dimmicraps.
        Your version of history is fantacy . . . try a little “Thinking” . . .

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      The author believes that the attacks on the WTC and the pentagon were orchestrated by our own government. Go to his web site. Look at his credentials, then read what he has to say. There are MANY EXPERTS who believe the same thing. There is a shocking and extraordinary amout of evidence to support this conclusion, as bizarre as it seems. Do your own research before you dismiss it out of hand!

      • mark

        Believe me I am no fan of the Cheney-Bush administration. I voted against them twice and they made an horrific, strategic blunder in invading Iraq. But there is no way that they deliberately planned the attacks on 9/11. These theories have been demolished over and over again in throughly researched, documented articles written by respected scientists – not speculative, “cherry-pick your favorite source and never place it up to scrutiny” articles on paranoid/ “Our government are all nazis!/ radical sites. All appeals to this paranoia do is convince increasing amounts of Americans on just how cuckoo rightist extremists – just like leftist extremists – really are.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        mark, I didn’t cherry pick any sites for you. Neither did the author. I merely suggested that you research on your own. But apparently you are too lazy to find out for yourself. You are willing to sit back and believe what someone else tells you. Unless people in this country stop being lazy and apathetic we will all be in trouble. Again, I suggest that you do some research! There are plenty of experts, engineers, architects, pilots and explosives experts not to mention whistle blowers. If you do your own research and still decide that you feel the same way, no harm. But if you take everything at face value, you will never know where it will lead you. As a citizen, you have a responsibility to know what is going on in your government. You’re entitled to your opinion, but make it one based on knowledge versus what someone told you.

      • Ted G

        On come on now, and the moon landings really took place on the back lot of Paramount studios right…can we try to get grip on reality!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        If you refuse to even research, you deserve whatever you get! You can’t critisize that which you know nothing about!

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        At least the author’s and my opinion is based upon evidence. Yours is based upon nothing at all!

      • Karolyn

        There are “experts” for every issue.

        • Charles Moore

          Nonsense. That theory has already been debunked by real experts who have the credentials Then there is the Logistics. There would have to be a Conspiracy to let them in the Country. Somebody would have to plant the explosives in a place where thousands of people were around every day. Somebody would have talked by now. There had to be too many people involved and then happen on a certain schedule.

      • Don_in_DC

        Logically I don’t believe the government made 911 happen. I can see Bush as a child that wanted to fix a problem in his father’s policies but I don’t think he was smart enough to pull off the lie nor do I think his morality is that far skewed. You people love to demonize everyone and any error is seen as 100x worse than it really is. His spending and improper use of power are enough to make him a bad president, same is true of Obama for the same reasons.

        I’m disappointed in Americans for not giving Dr. Paul a chance. We are already screwed on the debt and I doubt he could fix it just because the machine is hard to stop but it would have been a way of showing we had the guts to try. Our citizens won’t care until the change hits them square in the face. If you throw grandma over a cliff that won’t matter as long as you aren’t the grandma. You spoiled bastards deserve what is coming in a sense.

  • http://None Mike C

    NO NO NO.

    This article is wrong on the basis of war being too costly. WE SPEND MORE ON ENTITLEMENTS PEOPLE. For example, take a look at the 2007 budget… $964 billion spent on Medicare, Medicaid, Unemploment and Welfare yet only $548 billion spent on defense. When you hear people criticize the wars, it’s a sleight of hand trick to get the masses looking the other way.

    Do your own research if you don’t believe me.

    Certainly we have problems like out of control government spending, government power grabs everywhere and in every way, and out of touch career politicians who fail to represent the people. But let’s stop citing the Bush wars as the cause of our problems. Get over it.

    When people want to really address the problems we have it’s the entitlements that need to be examined.

    • jeep

      Mike, you are dead on target. But, while the liberal dolts here carry on about “Bush’s war” and profligate spending on domestic sink holes, the libertarians will rant about the current wild deficit spending and how their “guy” doesn’t like it. The fact is NOONE is willing to give up their piece of the pie. Seniors want their meds paid for, the middle class wants their house paid for, young people want free college and on and on. Everyone has their own agenda and all are aimed at squeezing dollars from a government that has to borrow money to keep up with demand. Any politician that promises to cut off any unConstitutional spending immediately loses that segment of voters.

  • ves

    well actually our being made to supply the welfare queens….their illegitmate offspring…..Illegal aliens and their hers of anchor babies with everything from housing…food…medical care…electrical..water..gas..clothes…education in foreign languages….free ride through college and then their children repeat the process….then foreign aid …..then foreign loans….the waste of taxpayer dollars to the un….the bailout of the crooked wallstreet..banks…mortgage companies…bad management of the auto industry…..and the crooked thieves in the green energy industry….someone has got the money in foreign accounts and its not the us taxpayer!!!

  • Mountain Saint

    At least one half of our adult population are on welfare of some kind while the other half are working and supporting the welfare half. This expenditure is one of the factors causing a two trillion dollar shortfall every year, forcing the Government to borrow half ot the deficit from enemy nations and print the other half, causing inflation. ..There are solutions to these problems but neither party will use them. Both Obama and Romney are Socialists.

  • Robert Rhinehart

    Some one needs to let Obama that Pinocchio makes a lossie Robinhood and the Enchanted forest dosent exist

  • Kenny


    • dan

      live as the founding fathers,my friend. I’ve been in your position many times in my life…
      find a spot (better to have the owners permission) and pitch a tent …plant a garden and hope they don’t round you up and put you on a reservation or in camp FEMA.
      Dig a well, build your own house and find a wife and raise some children in peace,if you can. Avoid borrowers and lenders and arrows in the back.

    • DavidL

      I hear you. I hope you are using our social safety net. That’s what it’s here for. If it is no longer available, as many conservatives writing on this sight and elsewhere advocate (until they need it) then “all bets are off”. Break the law. Steal, kill if you have to survive and to protect your family.

      Of course, I’m not serious. I make the point that the social safety net is the moral deal society makes with its members in return for them not resorting to anarchy and to crime. You and your family should be receiving assistance from the rest of us until you get back on your feet. You shouldn’t have to pitch a tent and devolve to home schooling for your kids.

      • Kenny


      • bigchas40

        David, I beg to differ with your characterization of home schooling as somehow falling under the construct of “devolving.” Home education is a growing phenomenon in many Western countries, and my wife and I did a fair amount of research before beginning to home school our children. It is an ignorant assumption that many detractors of home schooling have that it endangers a child’s development. My own analyses of performance in home schooling demonstrated the opposite was true.

        My leading question was: How do home-schooled children develop in comparison with school pupils? It concluded that home-schooled children performed better on average in the cognitive domain (language, mathematics, natural sciences, social studies), but differed little from their peers at school in terms of socio-emotional development. In that regard they were no better, and certainly no worse. This positive finding may be attributed partly to socioeconomic factors. However, what i found suggested that the quality of the learning environment, including one-to-one tutoring, could also be a contributing factor.

  • 1776

    Mr.Roberts nails it again as he calls out the D.C. pawns of the Globalist Elite.

  • http://aol denise harris

    Obama is all but trying to repeat the same mistakes and economic disasters from the Carter Administration with big government and raiseing tax’s.It is has been proven in history that this can’t and won’t work raising tax’s on anyone will prove to be a mistake.
    In 2009 Barack Obama stated this himself.
    The 1% or top 5% that Obama has created such a divide over with the American people are what will help in a recovery and are not the cause of our economic crisis .
    Extending the Bush tax cuts for 1 year for the middle class and raising the tax on the wealthest Amerians and business will not help our economy at all, but will cause it to continue in downward spiral, in Jan 2014 when obamataxcare comes into play it will prove to be a economic nightmare and the largest tax increase in our countrys history.
    You don’t have to believe me or agree with me, if Barack Obama is re-elected you will find out for yourselves and God help us all.

    • Benjamin Fox

      Not really, Hitler yes, Hitler was a satanist, proven by real history, so both obozo and Hitler have the same father, satan, the little god who hates the real God. Simple if you know God and His Word.

  • HKaufman

    To the Author of this Article,,, that is the biggest load of journalitic RHETORIC. Get your facts correct then blast it.. This becoming another prepare to meet thy doom. SS not going broke, all these Individuals with the golden spoon fed riches are crying the blues because they may have to pay their share ofthe taxes. When you and the rest of the Crying Wolf writers supply documented proof, not the this hairbrained concocted RHETORIC,, Stop preaching FICTION, if you cant, then get a job writing Science Fiction.. When you stop writing fairy stories and real truth then i will take credence in your ARTICLES. Till then I consider these Articles unsupported,bias filled with plain half truths and insults the Masses…Vini Vidi VICI….

    • Mark Are Reynolds

      Sources? LInks? Or is it just your inflated ego we are dealing with here?

  • dalene44

    How to Make your country communist in nine easy steps:

    1. Ok comrades the first step is the most important, you must create a new party with your ideals in mind. But don’t call it communist party ohhh nooo that would be bad …. call it something liberal/progressive … Party of the People.

    2.Step два (two) Create a Communist Newspaper.
    The point of making a newspaper is to help you spread the evil truths of capitalist. With a power full propaganda device you can start winning the heart of your fellow country men, and convince you to join your party. Say things like those company owners are keeping money and good jobs from us the hard working serfs.

    3.Step три (you should know the pattern by now) Build up you Political Power.
    This my friends is where Patience comes into play. You must wait for many players to join your glorious party. You must be well spoken and build up your allies and strengthen your will to rule these pitiful capitalist pigs without mercy. Once your party is big enough , and you control majority of congress you can spring your traps on these pigs!

    4.Step четыре Store Food
    You will need to store food to save your health during the coming transition!

    5.tep пять Wipe them OUT!
    This is the most important step because it is the start of the revolution. You must at the start of the revolution make several laws that will raise the value after taxes above 80% and raise the income tax to 70% with your congress majority. Why would you do that you ask? Good question IT IS TO DRIVE THOSE CAPITALIST PIGS OUT OF BUSINESS!!!!!

    6.Step шесть Build Government Run Organizations.
    You will need to start building government organizations so you can use them for them for the coming transition.

    7.Step семь Print money and transfer into organizations accounts.
    Use the government power to print large amounts of cash and transfer to your government run organizations for the next step.

    8.Step восемь Buy the cheap companies!
    With no company owner making cash the companies will be cheaper than a soviet hooker. All you have to do is buy the cheap companies with the printed cash that you converted into gold.

    9.Step девять Threaten to raise taxes if ….
    People will not join leave there parties or sell there company punish everyone until they step in line! Raise food taxes and income tax until they step in line. And if they don’t get rid of them any means necessary. And remember it is all tough love!

    If they wont stop MAKE THEM !

    There that was easy as … well I believe you capitalist say easy as pie. With those nine steps you have achieved a communist takeover ! So Pat your selfs on your backs !

    WARNING: This may back fire on you and leave you politically ruined and your economy in the crapper. But what the hell there is a chance you can become the dictator … and well that is always worth it!

    • 45caliber

      The American Communist Party (which basically merged with the Democrat Party since most of their members are now Democrats) before it went out of business, had a 3 rule list to take over the US.

      Rule 1: Destroy the ruggedness of the American people by concentrating their attention on spectator sports and sex. (What is on TV lately?)

      Rule 2: Take control of the news media and use it to prevent people from knowing what is going on in the legislative halls of the nation while tearing down the image of any natural leader the people might follow. (Does Palin come to mind?)

      Rule 3: Confiscate all guns through gun control. (Have you watched the info on the UN’s arms control treaty they are now working on?)

      While the Communists may not be doing this, I think someone is.

    • Benjamin Fox

      The 10 steps of Marx, the U.S has already got 9, the last is obozo, the dictator-in-chief, can you say, Wow, we are lost?

  • Rt

    George H.W. Bush’s executive branch started the precursor to the invasion of that region of the world, with Kuwait and Desert Storm. Which was driven off of a predetermined strategy written years before he was president. And he claimed that that war would be the crucible on which the UN could exist and The New World Order could be furthered along. It actually was set up during the Carter administration, where the notion of terrorism was born into the system with one Yasir Arafat. Now it’s coming out that they are using our or their money to put Al Queda on the US payroll to create more instability in those regions until they succumb to the Global Economy being forced on them and dissolving any sovereignty these countries once had. Your article has a lot of good graphs and fancy politispeak but it seems to be just a little devisive. The UN is the true driving force behind what is happening they just use us as a tool to accomplish their agenda.

    • Benjamin Fox

      Sorry not Bush’s blame, get over it lib. God said Babylon would not be rebuilt and yet Saddam was rebuilding it until we invaded, want to blame somebody little god, blame the real God, you guys are so sorry, so evil, you look in the mirror and see godhood. LOL

  • Benjamin Fox

    Not the end of the world, just the age of evil. I hear the lie’s and makes me know that evil is at work. If the evil government would tell the truth, I would ask? When people opt out of SS and Medicare and invest with private business they get 10 times or more then their investment, has been proven in Texas, nice return wouldn’t you say? The government has stolen from these account’s for their agenda, a bunch of lying idiots who spend millions to get what? In Communism, the government is God, when those who know, God is not government, He is real, loves and judges, I know most don’t like the last because they know in their hearts that they are immoral, so they say good is evil and evil is good. Blame wars but having been there I say, rather fight there then here where my family and friends suffer, Those who think it is okay to kill unborn babies are playing God, those who say they can have sex with others not equipped to mate, are playing God, those who divorce their mates are always looking for reasons to do their own will and not the will of God, so they are Gods, except un-righteous little gods. Not to worry, God has shown warnings and people become more evil, so when this nation is no more, just think your evil idea’s brought it down, so you have choice, made a mistake? Can’t do it from a hot climate.

    • The Christian American

      As the bible says evil is at work on overtime at the time of Christ’s second coming. Heads are turning to and fro and wondering what’s happening. Our interpretation of words has us confused between moral and immoral, good and bad, sane and insane. You can feel what PCR says in the wind. What’s the punch we’ll get from the district of criminals on tomorrows internet? Are we punch drunk or can we see well enough to work our way out of this?

    • Karolyn

      Glad I don’t believe in YOUR God!

      • Benjamin Fox

        I’m sorry for you Karolyn, your climate in eternity will be very hot and no water there, hope you find the real God because your not.

      • Charles Moore

        Karolyn. Just how did all those evil people get in Congress? let me tell you. For the last 20 years the voters have returned 90% of the Incumbents to Congress. The Voters return 90% of them and then give them a 13% rating. What a joke. The Republican House has passed 30 pieces of major Legislation and the Senate controlled by the Democrats has shelved all of them an not a allowed a vote. It is the Democrats who are denying the American people a vote on the Senate floor yet look at all the MCMORONS who are claiming the Republicans the Obstruction party. I just had an encounter with two on this blog that are so incompetent they either don’t know the definition of Hypocrisy are defend it. I stopped caring about them 20 years ago. I look at the economic trends and try to stay ahead of the curve. Anybody that depends on people who defend hypocrisy and the trampling on the U,S Constitution are the danger.

  • cedarridgefarmsinc

    As usual your you have got your figures mixed up, it is not the wars, that can be added. The cost of D.U.M.B.S. is where all the trillions of dollars has gone. Most people watch the presstatutes channels (Media) and are misinformed. Your money is going to dig all the underground facilities for the rich and your not invited! You will be the one paying for it because your good ol’ buddy Burnake has printed up all that money to pay for top of the line food storage, medical facilities stocked with everything they will need for four years underground, luxury everything you can imagine you are going to pay, oh, I almost forgot that Mega-Lev train system they have that travels over 300 miles per hour! See the government say’s that is all just conspiracy, Is it??? If they finally get to audit the Fed, it will be too late, because when Obama get’s re-elected and he will. It is not us that do the elections, that is all just to make us happy and keep us inline for now. Obama said the United Nations are going to take our guns and yes there is going to be a war, but what everybody does not see right now, is this administration is trying it’s darndest (for the lack of a better word) to start a nucular war with the whole world. I am sorry you and most people have been mislead and kept busy with other distractions and haven’t got to see the big picture here. Your going to see the real Obama after the election, most people think that there is not going to be an election that Obama will call martial law before that takes place, we shall see.

    • Charles Moore

      Bernanke is a completely different problem. Most people are ignorant when it comes to understanding basic economics let alone the Federal Reserve and how it interferes in the Economy. During the start of the Recession here when Consumer debt was 130% of disposable income and Idiots bought homes they couldn’t afford and created two financial bubbles the Federal Reserve raised rates 13 consecutive times. I had problems with this from the start. Since the establishment of the Federal Reserve anytime that these rates have been raised 6 consecutive times there has been a Recession 90 % of the time. Raising them 13 consecutive times guaranteed a Recession. How is it possible that Bernanke was not aware it?.I think it was deliberate and Bernanke under estimated the Consumer Debt. We know that Bernanke hates inflation but 13 consecutive times . It is true that Housing Prices had risen 120% from 2000-2007 which as an aberration as this was a simple interest of 17 % a year and had never happened before. I knew a Recession was coming based on the above. Just didn’t know exactly when and how big, There was one person who did predict it in his book published in 2005 and that was Warren Brusee. Most everybody else except Roubini and Wiedemere were telling people everything was alright until the last minute, The people are again listening to the MCMORONS again.We are on course with present trends for Bankruptcy in 3 1/2 years.


    The western world lead by America has found a new way to elevate profits for the fat cats by hiring low paid workers outside the country. How on earth could we ever get out of the recession? Boeing outsourced most of the work on the Dreamliner; it caused a delay of two years in producing the Aircraft all of the savings made went out in smoke. If the trend continues America and Western Europe will become a third world country

    Both political parties are supported by the fat cats and they cater to the needs of these greedy capitalist to the detriment of western workers. In my book I wrote a chapter ‘No recovery for the western world in the Horizon’
    Joseph Foster, Author ‘’Seeing Red’’ ‘How America is losing the future’ Available at:

  • The Christian American

    Paul Craig Roberts is the Samuel Adams of our times. What he writes is documented, not a propaganda and BS. And to this Obama’s adverseries are planning to send the likes of Romney when we had a Ron Paul genuinely willing to serve America? The God who helped found America is now looking at from afar because the American people kicked him out. What economy is there to save? Gold and Silver are not available as commodities to back the dollar. Federal Reserve Notes (FRN’s) are nothing more than vehicles to steal the wealth of America by people such as Baron Von Rothschild and his ilk. It’s all stolen now so they have to print counterfeit money and stick guns in the faces of their own people and the world to force them to accept them. We’re not looking at drama. What PCR says is very very real. Solution? Repent to the living Creator and start looking to Him for a direction out of the mess we’ve created. There is no other solution.





    • Karolyn

      There is an abundance of money available for anyone who really wants it and has the right ideas. There is too much talk of lack; and that is why so many don’t have enough. There’s too damn much complaining going on and not enough action.

    • Charles Moore

      Starting in 2014 everybody will have to file a tax form. Everybody regardless of income or situation. Everybody will have to provide proof of health insurance. The claim by the Democrats that 97% will not be affected is nonsense. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Federal Government can’t blackmail the States that opt out by withholding their Medicaid Funds.So far nine States have opted out with 14 more saying they will opt out and that is just now. These States will not be extending their Medicaid rolls which was the original idea. That means that people who were counting on qualifying for Medicaid are not only out of luck but will now have to also pay a tax. If you are an employee that is counting on your employer for it then take another look. There are thousands of Employers and Unions who have received a waiver. There are said to be 50% of employers who have stated that they will pay the cheaper $2000 tax rather than the more expensive insurance. There might also be layoffs. Say an employee makes $30,000 a year and your firm has 16 employees. . Might even fire one and save $30,000 which is the same as paying a $2000 tax for 15 of them which they will then have in the company. If you reside in one of the States that opt out then there will also not be any State health exchanges.. This means that they will have to pay a tax or purchase private health insurance until Government exchanges which will tell you what doctors you can see and by what rules. . Make no mistake about it. It is a TAX and the highest court of the Land has declared it so. The IRS has its full enforcement powers just like a regular tax. The IRS can withhold your Refund, attach your wages, freeze your bank account, out a Lien on your property or add a penalty and interest to any unpaid. tax. The IRS can send you to Prison. for Lying about it etc. Anybody that listens to that nonsense that only 3% is affected could be in for a rude awakening. The IRS is going to be an intrusion into the life of everybody, It is a TAX.

  • macgyver1948

    There are people here saying this is a conservative site and they do not want to see any opposing views here. That is easy to understand even without those actually saying it.

    In college and in grad school we were told to always keep our minds open because not allowing for differing views is part of the definition of ignorance, and, maybe stupidity. In other words, if you choose to not allow opposing views you are choosing to be ignorant. Adding insult will just show the level of your mentality and your age long gone by.

    I have seen so many conservatives on this site, and elsewhere, act this way and they show their ignorance by responding with insults to all who believe differently from them. I come here because I want to understand the other side of the aisle and I do not care if you disagree with me, you do not have to. I want to learn about opposing views. But when I see responses mainly of insults and name calling I wonder if this ignorance is really what the GOP and the TP wants of their followers.

    A closed mind is a wasted mind.

    • Charles Moore

      You have never seen me respond in insults unless I am insulted first. There have been surveys taken and 79% of people can’t name one reason for this Financial mess. Any body that thinks that it was caused my GWB is an idiot. My one insult. I have given the reasons for it and reasons for the coming Bankruptcy of the U.S. in less than 4 years. What is a Conservative? My experience is that at lest 80% of the time a Conservative is somebody that doesn’t agree with people who parrot misinformation.It is these people that are the first with the insults. I have been a Registered Democrat for over 30 years. My expertise is in Economics as I have been an Investor for over 30 years. When I lay out the facts I am called a Teapublican. Faux News listener or some other ignorant comment. When I ask them where they received their degree in Economics and to exolain their theories then they disappear. When I brought up the fact that the Republican House has passed over 30 pieces of major Legislation and the Senate controlled by the Democrats then their response is that the Legislation wasn’t worth it. When I ask them to explain the bad parts in the three submitted Budgets then I called names or they disappear. So don’t give me this nonsense.

      • macgyver1948

        Charles Moore… I specifically did not mention names because I didn’t feel the need. I figure if I described anyone they would either know it or just disagree because it was something they do not want to agree with. And that was one of my points.

        I am a registered Democrat too but I did that to be informed. I am also receiving 411 from the GOP also because I want to be informed on all sides so I can make an intelligent decision, or go down trying. I just look at the issues, research them and then form an opinion. Sometime I do not agree with the Dems but I so much more often disagree with the GOP but I try.

        You say your background is in Economics. You are several steps up on me. I had a couple of Economics classes in my MBA programs but I didn’t specialize in it. So you know more about how to fix our economy than I do.

        You are so right when you say this economic crisis didn’t start with GWB. How could it since there are so many problems and they had to begin long before him, many decades longer before. Since it has begun many presidents have contributed to it but GWBs contributions, with his 2 immortal wars and his economic programs, has contributed more than most. But as you say it didn’t start with him.

        You are the economic master in this conversation so I want to ask you. Trickle Down Economics, Reaganomics or the REPUBlican version of Supply Side Economics, or whatever you want to call it, does not work because it presumes, or ASSumes, the money given to the top will be shared enough to help those it was intended to trickle down to. For example, with the Bush tax cuts for the very wealthy, and the huge gift he gave the Oil Companies, mostly for, well, job creation – Where are the jobs that were created from the bush gifts? We can go back decades and explore the Republican Trickle Down stuff and I would have to wonder there too. We could also see fault contributing from the Dem side too.

        “Trickle Down Economics, Reaganomics or the REPUBlican version of Supply Side Economics, or whatever you want to call it” maybe could work if the gifts were used as incentives to create jobs and whatever else is needed but those at the top who receive primarily, not always but mostly, use those gifts as savings for whatever they want for themselves and not as incentives as intended. That is why Trickle Down will not work even if it could.

        I suggest you just take the insults and consider the sources. Much of the time people use insults because they have nothing else. Do not let yourself to be brought down to their levels. It is so funny when I get told by those who insult me and they tell me how I am thinking and feeling and believing and they do not know me. I have congratulated them on being such a great mind reader and I do so with a smile. How can people who do not know you tell you what you are thinking. One guy told me to tell him, and all who would read it, to give soultions to all or economic and political problems, I couldn’t believe he did that but others have also.

        When I didn’t respond to him he referred to me by name as an idiot and one who has no solution and said I was an Obama brain dead ass with nothing to really say since I couldn’t answer him so he proved he was right and I proved I was wrong. Since there is no way to have an intelligent conversation with people like that the best thing is to ignore them. There were others on this site who are similar to that guy. And what they have in common is “We are right and if you have the audacity to not agree with me you are an idiot or an evil sob or the same ilk as Hitler, etc”. They just do not want to hear what different points of view are about and that is what I meant by forms of chosen ignorance, when they choose to keep their minds closed.

        What an insult you were called a ‘Teapublican’. I am sorry you were called that Charles, that is nasty. :-).

    • Charles Moore

      You are all over the place. i will try to answer it. I stopped worrying about the Political scene twenty years ago when 90% of the Incumbents were returned to Congress. I Registered as a Democrat over 30 years ago since it was an advantage. In my State one can’t cross party lines in the Primary. I haven’t voted for either of the two major Parties in a General Election in over twenty years with two exceptions. Clinton the 2nd time around and Hilliary in the Primary in 2008 since my ballot was only Democrats. GWB did not give anything to the Oil companies. Much was made of his ties to Oil and his V.P to Halliburton. Oil Companies do not get any subsidies. A Subsidy is a direct payment by taxpayers such as Subsidies to Farmers. Oil companies get a Depreciation Allowance because Oil is not renewable. This is the same allowance other Corporations get for depreciating equipment etc. The Richest Corporation is Apple Computer and not an Oil Company. The Oil companies on average paid 40% in taxes last year which is more than most Corporations. The Jobs Czar for this Administration is the CEO of General Electric which paid no taxes last year and shipped Jobs to China. This Jobs Czar also the head of Corporate Council for this Administration. Most have shipped Jobs Overseas. One is a former Executive of Bain Capital. The taxpayers bailed out General Motors. General Motors still owes them 27 Billion dollars. General Motors has shipped jobs to several Countries. Much more than Bain. Chrysler which was bailed out by the taxpayers was not a Public corporation. It was a Private Hedge Fund by the name of Cerebus. Check it out. The union members here were given 40% ownership. Part is owned by the taxpayers and the Italian company Fiat owns the rest.. All this Corporate crap by Obama is nonsense. Obama was also the largest recipient of Corporate contributions in history. I am not saying Corporations don’t have any faults. Forty nine of the fifty States have huge problems with unfunded Liabilities for Public Sector Pensions and Benefits. A State is not considered healthy in this respect unless 80% of them are Funded. The only State that is at least 80% Funded is Wisconsin Yet look how Governor Walker was demonized. The U,S, is in deep Economic trouble. If the 130% of Debt to GDP which so far seems to be historically valid is the case then the U.S. at the present 1.9% annual increase in GDP and the 1.5 trillion annual Deficit trend then the U.S. will be Bankrupt in 3 1/.2 years.Three Cities have declared Bankruptcy , They are Vallejo, Stockton and now San Bernardino . They are all in California. Fifty Percent of the Revenue of California goes to the Public Sector. California is 16 Billion in debt and that doesn’t include Unfunded Liabilities . Yet the California State Legislature just approved 68 billion dollars for a High Speed rail, This Country is in huge trouble

  • GiveMeLiberty

    Great article but minor input if I may….we’ve actually been at WAR since Bushy Sr. invaded Panama in December 1989 without Congressional approval. A few months later, we we’re in the Gulf “defending” Kuwait….we haven’t stopped since. There has been NO break in our military conquests since then. Gotta love those Progressives!

    • Charles Moore

      Your comment of “Bushy ” says it all. I have responded to your other clueless post at other times.

    • dalene44

      Seems someone always finds a way to cover for the woes of the world or obama incompetence by blaming Bush!

  • FEDUP!

    Good point Charles. Everyone needs to GROW UP!


      Yes indeed two usless wars no benefir to the US.

      • Charles Moore

        The Public cried for revenge after 911. GWB went to Congress which had the same Intelligence reports as GWB and Congress approved it. Senators Obama and Biden said it was a violation of the U.S. Constitution to not consult Congress unless the Security of the U.S. or its Citizens were in imminent danger. Senator Obama claims he taught U.S. Constitutional law for ten years. Senator Biden even went further and said he would start impeachment proceedings for such a President. POTUS Obama went into Libya with out consulting Congress. People can;t have it both ways. When does V.P. Biden start impeach proceedings?How do you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y?

  • Moester

    We MUST be ready to go all the way for Israel. If Afghanistan and Iraq cost so much, screw them man. If there is one country on this planet that gets that, it’s Israel. I don’t care about much but i’m a serious gentile zionist.

  • Sidney Smith

    We the People and Native Americans do not understand the Constitution and Treaty its legai tradition true meaning of the Supreme Law of the Land under Natural Law. If laws did not arise under the Constitution and Treaties for the United States of America after 1859 it is null and void. After 1860 The United States of America changed to Legal fction Commercial Law – Maritime Law – law of the Sea came into being, legal fiction, entity, person, never own anything, taxed on every thing – car taxes, property to simple fee never own property taxes, inflation, depreceation, deflation by disign to take your wealth. However, the Federal Reserve owe the Native Americans and We the People 1,000 trillion Dollars and growthing that was never disclosed when National Economic Security and Reformation Act signed into Law by President Clinton Oct.10, 2000, when the military audited the Fedral Reserve. The expressed abrogation of the U.S. Government Inc.its best kept secret to prevent mandate major reformation of the united States Inc. and the U.S government Inc of America. see bank foreclosures 1993 – nesara for more information.

    Sidney Smith,

  • Dave Kirby

    All the great powers of the world in the last couple of centuries have reached a pinnacle through conquest and cultural assimilation then ran out of money and could not maintain what their greedy rulers acquired. The kings and emperors found the cost of maintenance far more dear than the treasure they were able to loot from the conquered. Apparently power is very addictive.
    Wars have always been run on debt. The rich invested in the king’s ability to win and add to their own fortunes. At some point, the wealthy balk, lend no more to the addict ruler and the domain collapses on itself. The nobles usually survive with most of their wealth to build again and support the next seeker of power.

    I see some similarities with previous great powers to the US, but also some differences that may allow us to hold on if the wealthy abandon us with the inevitable raising of taxes. I am certainly not nearly as pessimistic as the author of this article. He has probably already set up camp outside our borders readying himself to move back in when the smoke clears. Just guessing.

  • auhunter

    How can anyone say Obama is or was trying to wean us out of the war when in 2008 he said it was unconstitutional to send troops into Libya, etc., without congressional approval, then 3 years later went and did it. If you are going to spit out facts 1. Make sure they are right and 2. Don’t contradict yourself later.

  • Chris Phillips

    The Jews of America purchased the politicians on Capitol Hill years ago. They owned Clinton and Bush Jr. as well. The result from the Jews’ domination was a radical pro-Israel policy which resulted in Osama Bin Laden’s attack on America. (Don’t forget that Israel’s persecution and dispossession of the Palestinians was Bin Laden’s main reason for his attack.) The Jews also were instrumental in the promotion of war against Iraq because it threatened Israel. So The Jews of America (2.3% of the population) have cost the rest of us
    at least 6 trillion dollars. A war against Iran, which the Jews and their puppets on Capitol Hill so eagerly desire, will cost us another few trillion. But as the Jews and their servants in the ZOG would say, “Ten trillion dollars and 100,000 ruined goyim (Gentile) lives is a small price to pay for the advancement of Israel’s interests.”

    • Charles Moore

      Are you off your Meds?. What nonsense.

  • Scott Trester

    Stupid reporting here.
    Clinton should have finished the Job in Iraq so Bush could have stopped IRAN and other nuke happy foes.. just because they never found Nukes In Iraq dosent mean they were never there. End of the world yes.. When Creating a Nuke came the responsibility to keep it out of the hands of those who would use it on innocent people.. The Bible speaks of Billows of smoke and rotting flesh from them. Calling down fire from heaven. 1/3 rod of the oceans dying.. Your stupid those who blame bush for anything!! You same people blamed Bush for High gas prices after a hurricane??? Bet your not blamming obomba for high gas prices (Friend of the oil companies LoL)… The Jews are awesome and Gods Holy People.. Too protect them is to be on the side of God who is truely Good.

    • Charles Moore

      Wouldn’t have made any difference .Clinton was not in office during 911. The people clamored for revenge. GWB went to Congress who had the same Intelligence who approved the war with Iraq. The Mistake was staying there for so long. It became a different mission once we were in Iraq. Senators Obama and Biden claimed that it would be a violation of the U.S. Constitution if a POTUS did not consult Congress about any hostilities unless the Security of the U.S. or its Citizens were in imminent danger. POTUS Obama and V.P. Biden then went into Libya without consulting Congress and not a peep out of the Mainstream Media or the Democrats except for Dennis Kunich(D) Ohio who is on the straightest shooters in Congress and just lost his Primary Election so one less common sense person in Congress.

      • DScully

        Honestly Charlie…. GWMoron going into Iraq without Congressional approval is quite a bit different than what Obama did with Lybia. It’s a difference of thousands of American soldiers being sent to Iraq and loosing their lives or being injured… plus billions and billions of dollars being spent over the course of a decade.
        Compared to Obama getting the support of ally countries to help give air support to the Lybian rebels… who then were able to gain their own freedom from a dictator. Obama did not send any American soldiers in to fight, so there was no loss of American lives… and certainly not anywhere near the money spent… and it was all over in less than a year.
        So how is it that you think these 2 situations are anything alike?

        • Jeff

          Republicans get very upset when Democrats take military action that actually accomplishes something without occupying a country for decades. They didn’t like what Clinton did in Kosovo and they don’t like Libya. Intelligent use of the military makes them feel bad. They prefer long-term occupations like iraq and Afghanistan. More profits for the contractors.

          • Charles Moore

            Jeff. Your bias is showing when you refer to GWMoron. Apparently you can’t read too well. There isn’t another 5th grader that can do it for you?. I never equated the situation in Iraq to Libya. As a matter of fact I stated that Bush stayed too long in Iraq etc. Here it is again. Senator Obama who claimed to have taught U.S. Constitutional law for ten years made the statement . Of course we really don’t know everything as Obama has refused to release his College Transcripts. The Media hounded GWB about it and he released them even though they were dismal. Obama gets a free pass. back to my original post. Senator Obama claimed that any POTUS that did not consult Congress before entering into any hostilities unless the Security of the U,S or its Citizens are in imminent danger is guilty of violating the U.S. Constitution . POUTS Obama engaged in Hostilities without consulting Congress. You don’t get to have it both ways.Obama was being untruthful one the of times. I also spelled out H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y. Perhaps your are mentally challenged. It is Hypocrisy. Anybody that supports Hypocrisy and there are plenty of examples with Obama and then refers to GWMoron is the apex of Ignorance and are extremely clueless.. If a person can’t read and can’t find another 5th grader to help them translate a post then they should respond to it unless they are so ignorant that they don’t realize they are ignorant.

          • Jeff


            As you are the master of the personal attack, I shan’t go there except to say if all you can say about people who disagree with you is they are ignorant, you haven’t got much. I refer to W as a moron (a) because he could barely speak English despite having been placed in the best schools in the country (b) because he invaded Iraq when the inspectors on the ground reported they could find no weapons of mass destruction and (c) his invasion was accomplished is such an amateur fashion that a troop of boyscouts could have planned it out better. Do you have a better description of W (other than “ignorant” or “Cheney’s Boy”)?

          • Charles Moore

            Since you ask then I will respond.. Hopefully you can find a fifth grader to translate it for you. I pretty ,much explained it.I will try it again. Congress approved the entry into Iraq with the exception of a few members.They had access to the same intelligence of GWB. They were ready to go with the emotions of the people after the attack. When the tide of the people turned then they were against it. Bush could not have legally gone there without the approval of Congress.Once they approved it then all decisions came under the CIC and Bush refused to leave Iraq. During that time U.S. Senator Obama who claims that he taught U.S. Constitutional Law for ten years stated that any President that engaged in Hostilities with another Country without consulting Congress is guilty of violating the U.S Constitution .Of course. that didn’t apply when President Obama went into Libya and he didn’t consult Congress. Of course we don’t know the real truth since Obama spent millions of dollars to have all his records sealed so we don’t really know his status in school or anyplace else. Then we have POTUS Obama sending 30,000 more troops into Afghanistan. You are familiar with Afghanistan. That is the Country where there is no Central Government since it consists only of a loose network of tribal chiefs and no outside force has subdued it since Alexander the Great which was over 2300 years ago. You know Afghanistan . That is where the Afghan troops that we are supposed to be protecting are killing our own troops. If you want to see a Moron then look in the mirror. Have a 5ht grader look it up for you. I didn’t just assume you were Ignorant.. I explained it to you. Apparently you are so ignorant that you don’t realize you are ignorant. As bad as Bush was he dwarfs in comparison to Obama.

          • chadia

            You hit it on the nail all true. Those that committed the mistake should stand up for trial and if found guilty for murder shall be sentenced to death.

          • Charles Moore


          • Jeff


            I read the first sentence and it contained a personal attack. I refuse to read the rest.

          • Charles Moore

            Nonsense. There was no personal attack. This at least the 2nd time that I have presented the same facts. You don’t respond because you can respond. My first sentence was “Since you asked”. That is not a personal attack. You are the one that made it personal.

          • Jeff

            Gee, I saw something about getting a 5th grader to read something for me. I don’t need to communicate with any more jerks. We’re all filled up here.

        • Charles Moore

          Are you and Jeff related or is it the same person using different names.Show me my post where I stated that the situation in Iraq was the same situation in Libya. Are you really that incompetent?. You are defending somebody who is destroying this Country but I won’t even go into that aspect of it. You are defending somebody that is the apex of Hypocrisy. Want to know how you can tell whether Obama is being Untruthful? His lips are moving. Here it is again. Get another 5th grader to help you. Senator Obama claims he taught U.S. Constitutional law of 10 years. Who knows what he did in College as he refuses to release his College transcripts. So we will assume this is the one time he is telling the truth. So U.S. Constitutional Scholar Senator Obama states that any President that engages in Hostilities with any other Country and doesn’t first consult Congress unless the Security of the U.S, or its Citizens are in imminent danger is guilty of violating the U.S. Constitution.,POTUS Obama went into Libya. So which time was he being untruthful? One contradicts the other. He engaged in Hostilities with Libya and the Security of the U,S, or its citizens were not at stake. Apparently you are either delusional or too incompetent to see the comparison. How anybody could support such Hypocrisy and also a person who stated in 2009 that the U,S, Constitution was flawed and needed to be changed is beyond me. You might impress your 5th grade counterparts but I was pretty clear about the Hypocrisy and the Untruthfulness.

      • James Heronime

        Jeff says:
        July 12, 2012 at 7:55 am

        Republicans get very upset when Democrats take military action that actually accomplishes something without occupying a country for decades. They didn’t like what Clinton did in Kosovo and they don’t like Libya. Intelligent use of the military makes them feel bad. They prefer long-term occupations like iraq and Afghanistan. More profits for the contractors.

        Well, what moral equivalence do we have for you? Kosovo? Really now, Kill off
        non Muslims so that the Muslims have a fair chance? How creative was that? Reverse Racism through military intervention. (Still didn’t save the Yugo!)
        Well now I am going big with a good comeback….Did anyone get upset at all when
        the democrats started the world’s only thermonuclear strike which ended up with an
        occupation that still goes on for over 60 years. Don’t compare party faults! The big two are pretty well cut from the same cloth now and you are carrying a banner that is on the losing side regardless of party affiliation.

        • Charles Moore

          Afghanistan is not winnable. Afghanistan has no Central Government. It is composed of a loose network of tribal chiefs. No outside force has conquered it since Alexander the Great and that was 2300 years ago. The majority of the Afghan troops are illiterate which means that they are largely not trainable. There have been recent incidents of Afghan troops killing our troops. We need Pakistan for a supply route for our troops and it has been demonstrated time and time again that Pakistan is not a good ally. Yet Obama increased our troops there by 30,000. Obama is taking credit for the end of the war in Iraq. The withdrawal treaty with Iraq was signed in 2008 by Bush and the Iraq Government. It was already a done deal. Obama tried to get them us extended longer in Iraq which failed only because the iraq Government would not agree to a blanket immunity for our troops. Apparently many of you are fooled by the rhetoric of the present administration. When Obama took office he said he was going to focus on Afghanistan because Bush had deserted it to focus on Iraq. In lieu of the above it looks like Bush made the right decision. As for Bin Laden. Pakistan had been protecting him for some time. This Administration knew about it only because a Pakistani Doctor was in a position to take DNA samples and notified this Administration. This Pakistani is now in Prison . Pakistan was searching for him and he was outed and named by a Cabinet member of this Administration on “Sixty Minutes”. There was no attempt by this Administration to get the Doctor out in the beginning and he has been abandoned now.

    • Charles Moore

      How could Clinton have finished it?. Clinton was not the POTUS when 911 happened. The people wanted revenge. GWB went to Congress who had the same Intelligence reports and Congress approved it. Senators Obama and Biden stated that any POTUS that didn’t consult Congress before hostilities with another Country unless the Security of the U.S. or its Citizens were in imminent danger was guilty of violating the U.S. Constitution.Obama went into Libya without consulting Congress. People can’t have it both ways. Senator Biden even went further and said he would start impeachment proceedings against such a POTUS.

      • Jeff

        4th Grade Chuckie:

        I did not make the reference to GWMoron although he certainly earned the name. I don’t know if W was a moron or not, but he certainly played one to the hilt on TV. I was merely comparing intelligent use of the military to idiotic use of the military.

        • Charles Moore

          No you weren’t You are incompetent. Don’t try to weasel out of it. You are also childish. I come out with a 5th grader remark and you come back with 4th grade. How childish.You made an incompetent accusation and I responded and you don’t have the Integrity to admit. Nowhere in any posts did I compare the Hostilities in Iraq to the limited hostilities in Libya. It was always about the Hypocrisy and the Untruthfulness. And you come back that you were just making a Military comparison???? Keep on making your childish and ignorant remarks. You are transparent and either don’t have any Integrity or pretty incompetent.

    • James Heronime

      Some Dork just wrote: The Jews are awesome and Gods Holy People.. Too protect them is to be on the side of God who is truely Good.
      You referring to the guys in Israel? Are your kidding? They don’t need us and the only guys claiming to be Jews are the folks influencing the way our government operates and forces them to give huge amounts of money and support annually. Everything we do in the middle east now is in support for the security of Israel. They aren’t stupid! Why waste lives on israelis when they can sucker the gullible US into doing it for them. Besides, the Jews followed the teaching of the Torah…These so-called Jews are Talmud followers, the descendents of the Pharcees and Edomites, the Romans and the Ottomen killed the Jews off long before the days of Hitler. Read up on their history…You aim to protect the worshippers of the synagogue of Satan?

      • Charles Moore

        ” This Administration is supporting Israel???????”This Administration double crossed them on Palestine . This Administration forced Mubarak to resign. There had been a Peace Pact between Israel under him. When the Muslim Brotherhood who said they would not out up a candidate for President of Egypt recently won the election the first words out of his mouth was that he was canceling the Treaty with Egypt and Israel.There has always been some question about the Cyber attacks on Iran. This Administration announced that it was done by the U,S and Israel. This Administration also gave the rebels in Syria false hope of support and told Assad of Syria to step down He refused and started killing his own people. The U.S is helpless as Russia is supporting Syria. Anybody that thinks that this Administration is helping Israel and making the Mideast better is drinking pitchers and not just cups of K.A.

      • macgyver1948

        James Heronime … WOW… I read your comment and I do not know if your bigotry is guiding you or your ignorance of history is, or both, but you are of hate. Enjoy your life…

  • Jim

    WOW, There are a lot of blind foolish folk out there…and a few that have a good grasp of reality. First, the simple truth is there are a few elite chumps that have so much money the y can burn it to stay warm. These few people are the same ones that sit in the head chair at corporate meetings. They control the price of gas at your gas station. They decide which pills will be made available for you to take. They determine if a war will take place or not. You see, the control of this world is in a few idiots hands and we are pawns for them to move in their game of life. So, we need to find a way to change the game…to take their game pieces and make them of no affect. If this includes breaking a few laws because of the greater good, then that’s the way it needs to be. I’m not talking about robbing banks or murder here…I’m talking about corporate laws that are only there to insure monies, even possible income, are not stole from these corporate elite punks. Yeah, these are the same guys that put families out on the street when there mortgage is past due…remember “It’s A Wonderful Life”…only worse!!! And yes, those idiots seated in DC are also at fault because they can’t see the trees from the forest. We vote in new blood to go to Congress and what happens when they get there….they are indoctrinated into “The Way things Are Ran”!!! Why do you think they are called freshman Congressmen? It’s because they got to be “…schooled in the way things are done around here”! NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!! WE NEED SOME CONGRESS MEN WITH STONES FOR GONADS AND THE LARGEST HEART FOR AMERICAN PEOPLE, FOR FREEDOM, FOR LIBERTY AND TRUTH!!! I get so sick and tired because of the way things are in America…the question that we all need to have answered is simple…What can I do to make a difference in this country? It’s like what the greatest President we had said…”Ask not what your Country can do for you, ask what you can do for your Country.” I long and ache for the change to come but I fear I may not live to see it. Some day we will be awake from the long sleep…some day we will see with eyes of truth…some day man will not have to listen to those who seek their own well being at the expense of others…some day…

    • Charles Moore

      Talk about Blind and Foolish. The price of gasoline is dependent on three or four things.
      1. Government taxes. The National average of Local State and Federal taxes on a gallon of gasoline is $,50. In New York it is $.60. So a gallon of gasoline that costs $3,00 a gallon before the tax and $.60 is added then you have a 20% increase.
      2. The Value of the Dollar. The price of oil is denominated by the dollar. If the dollar goes down in value then exporters raise the price to compensate for it.
      3. Refineries. There haven’t been any refineries built since the 70s because of Environmentalists etc. The existing refineries have to go down for maintenance.Also 50% of refineries and oil rigs are in the Gulf of Mexico which are subject to Seasonal Hurricanes.
      4. Trouble in the ,Mideast. Oil has spiked every time Iran has made a threat about closing the Hormuz Strait where 20% of World oil must flow.
      5. Speculators in the Futures Market. It is called the Futures Market since Contracts are signed at least as year in the Future. They have very little impact as a portion of the other reasons. The complaint about then is nonsense. If they controlled it that much then they would have been able to prevent the decline from $150.00 a barrel.
      Apparently you have bought into this Corporate nonsense and class warfare gimmick. You are therefore part of the problem. The claim about Subsidies to Oil companies is nonsense. They get none. A Subsidy is a direct payment by taxpayers. What they get is a Depreciation allowance since Oil is not renewable. It is an accounting item and costs taxpayers nothing. it is the same allowance that everybody else gets for writing down equipment etc. Oil companies paid 40% in taxes last year. General Electric paid no taxes. The CEO of General Electric is the Jobs Czar for this Administration. You and your comments have no basis in fact and are part of the problem.

  • Dan

    I suppose this is ALL war related recession? what about a 4 TRILLION dollar failed stimulus? I guess that has nothing to do with this? Geesh where do these supposed experts come from

    • Charles Moore

      The Stimulus failed because a large part of it was transfer payments to bail out the States. Most of the rest of it was for Food Stamps. Medicaid payments, and the bailout of Unions. Only about 6% went to Infrastructure Jobs. Even that was a Scam. Obama finally admitted that there was no such thing as shovel ready jobs. There was another Bailout which was specifically for Teachers. The Recent Jobs Bill proposed by Obama was for Teachers, Police and Firemen and Infrastructure Jobs. These are all Union jobs. Obama has expanded the Government work force 10 times as much in 3 1/2 years as Reagan did in eight years. Obama increased the number of troops in Afghanistan and went into Libya. This wasn’t free.

      • DScully

        Actually Charlie, some of the stimulus went to the states to help bailout fiscal deficits, but the majority of the stimulus was in tax cuts to the general public. Most people didn’t notice the difference in their tax bill, because the bone heads in the TEA parties were distracting them by making noise about their taxes being higher. Of course, if they had paid more attention to the actual amount on their returns, they would have noticed the opposite.
        Also the public workforce has shrunk by between 600,000 – 700,000 during Obama’s administration and mainly since 2011 when the idiot Repugs/TEApugs took over Congress and started defunding all public workers. Which is also why the unemployment numbers are not shrinking and even rising among some groups who more often work in the public sector.
        You and the other yahoos in here must be getting your MISinformation from the idiots in the GOP, TEAparty and Fox and flunkies network.

        • Jeff

          I agree. If you look at all recent recessions when a Republican has been in the WH, the levels of state and local employees (teachers, police, fire, etc.) have increased. Under Obama that number has decreased while Republicans have accused him of increasing the size of government. Had the size of government increased over the past couple of years, the unemployment rate would be lower and the economy would be improving more quickly.

          • Charles Moore

            Jeff is wrong again. The larger percentage of it went to bail out the States. It was for any shortfall in the States. Most of the rest went to Food Stamps. Medicaid and bailing out Unions. A small percentage went to tax incentives such as the rebate to Seniors etc., The tax part was small compared to the rest. It was touted as a JOBS bill that would lower Unemployment below 6%. It was a joke Transfer payments to debt ridden States, Food Stamps and Medicaid and tax rebates do not create Jobs. This is Wealth Redistribution and nothing else. If you don’t know the definition of Wealth Redistribution then look it up. It was just released that 49 of the 50 States have unfunded Pension Liabilities and Benefits for the Public Sector that are impossible.A State in order to be considered healthy has to have at least 80% of it funded. There is only one State in this shape and it is Wisconsin. How many of you McMorons demonized Walker etc? I bet Jeff was at top of the list. One of the worst is California. California is 16 Billion in Debt and that doesn’t include Unfunded Liabilities . Yet the California State Legislature just passed High Speed Rail project costing 68 Billion dollars. How about you MCMORONS explaining why taxpayers should support this crap whether as a Stimulus or Bailout. There have been three Cities who have declared Bankruptcy. They are Vallejo, Stockton, and San Bernardino.All are California Cities.

          • Jeff

            Chucky, chuckie . . .

            How can I be wrong about things I haven’t even addressed? I only stated that in other recessions, with republican presidents, we emerged from recession in important part by giving money to the states so teachers, police, firefighters, etc. didn’t get laid off. We have not done that this time and the result is higher unemployment. I said nothing about municipal bankruptcies, pensions, or any of therest of your rant.

            As to that little fascist in Wisconsin, at least his ability to cause mischief has been weakened by the Democrats’ retaking the State Senate. His intent was never about the budget. He was sent there to break the unions – all the unions. That significant numbers of union households voted for him, what can I say? There will always be some chickens who will vote for Col. Sanders.

          • Charles Moore

            Jeffie Jeffie. You can keep making childish and inane comments. My original post which you have failed to address because you made a stupid comment was that Senator Obama who claims to be a U.S. Constitutional scholar claimed that a POTUS that engages in hostilities with another Country without consulting Congress unless the Security of the U.S.or its citizens are in imminent danger is guilty of violating the U,S, Constitution ,however, POTUS Obama went into Libya without consulting Congress. You don’t get to have it both ways.
            1. Which time was the truthful Statement?
            2. How was the Security of the United States or its citizens in jeopardy in Libya?
            They are very simple questions Jeffie and you have chose to hide and not answer them because you are can’t defend his actions. I will be happy to answer all your other inaccurate and false comments on the Jobs Bill as soon as you address and answer the above questions. Evading the questions and trying to distract from them might work with your 5th grade buddies.

  • J M Damon

    Thanks for highly enlightening article.
    Now that we have come to the end of the “Debt Is Wealth” illusion, we must wipe the slate clean, forgive all debt both public and private, and start over again with real money.
    The sooner the better.
    Vote Forgiveness!

  • DScully

    You people are really idiots if you think Obama is in cohoots with GWMoron.

    • macgyver1948

      Dscully.. I very much agree, Obama would never want to align himself with GW bush as Romney is or otherwise. But “Two gratuitous wars doubled the U.S. public debt. This is the reason there is no money for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, the environment and the social safety net. Americans got nothing out of the wars” is is very true.

      I think the GOP itself wants us to forget that so it doesn’t have to be repaid, morally speaking, and the Tea Party just wants to do away with “ Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, the environment and the social safety net” and everything else people might need to survive. TEA only wants to reduce corporate expenses and those are the reasons TEA has no heart or soul and why “We The People” are in their way. Romney is TEA property.

  • charles

    …We as America did get something out of the stupid wars,,,, We got our brothers and sisters, our sons and daughters, our fathers and mothers, our husbands and wives, our friends brought back in caskets. Not to mention our youg men and womens body parts scattered all over the desert and jungle( viet nam)..The casket makers made out like a bandit. Now we can pay to rebuild all those places that our polititions are kissing their
    asses…. Yep, we as Americans did get something out of these wars… we get to keep our turncoat congress….. and more……..

    • Charles Moore

      The War in Iraq was over the “Petro Dollar”. The Petro Dollar is the whole basis for the Financial system for Oil and started 39 years ago. I went into more detail in a another post. The War in Afghanistan is a different story, When Obama took office he immediately focused on the fact that the Bush Administration had abandoned Afghanistan and that he was going to correct the shortcomings of the Bush Administration. With Bush , it was more important to focus on Iraq because of Logistics and the Petro Dollar. Bush also recognized that outside force had conquered Afghanistan since Alexander the Great which was 2300 years ago and that there was no Central Government . The Government is composed of a loose network of tribal chiefs and is not winnable. It is merely an Ego and Anti Bush thing with Obama or he is totally clueless. Bib Laden wouldn’t have been found when it happened if it hadn’t been for a Pakistani Doctor who was in a position to get his DNA. That Pakistani Doctor is now in Prison in Pakistan because Panetta named him and outed him on “Sixty Minutes: to try and make this Administration look good.


        Yes two useless wars over trillion dollars and many Americans dead. If politicians were accountable for their mistakes, Bush will be serving time in jail and many others with him. In my book I wrote two chapters about the two useless wars that gave no benefit to the US no Britain.
        Author ‘’Seeing Red’’ ‘How America is losing the future’ Available at:”

  • Lawrence

    I am going to say it. The best thing that could happen to us would be, China, Russia, Europe, yes and the rest of the world isolating us and refusing our dollar. We would then have to face reality and become self sufficient as a country. We don’t need them. They need us. Wake up America!

    • Charles Moore

      That could happen on September the 21st when Iran claims it is not going to accept the dollar for ts Oil. Over a year ago, China, Russia, Venezuela and Iran held a conference to bring it about. Because of Obama we have lost Egypt and Syria. Both are not Oil Producers but they provide more Instability to the Mideast. The four largest Oil producers are Saudi Arabia, Iran, Russia and the U.S, If Saudi Arabia goes along with it then the U,S will be Isolated,

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    The Global Currancy is in Turmoil… There will be, Many Losses & Many Gains! The ones on top will loose & ones on the Bottom will GAIN! Fairness in Class warfare?

  • ginger

    I have been saying for years that the government knows if it can break the backs of the senior citizens middle class it will be able to control everything in the world. This article stated some good facts about the interest rates, etc. It is true that senior citizens are having to use their saved money to get by today. We all thought we could use our interest on savings plus SS to help us during lean times, but this has been taken away by the things that have taken place in our federal government. Social Security would have been fine for us and for those that follow if the feds had kept their hands off of it. My husband and I paid into this fund to help our parents. Our children are paying into this fund to help us. It it had been left alone their children would be paying into this fund for them. But when has the government ever left a program along that was doing what it was set up to do? All they want to do is keep handing out to those that are not contributing anything to the system.

    • Charles Moore

      Ginger: This is only true if you are only aware of the most obvious choices out there. You have to then be satisfied with the meager Savings account rate and the rate on Treasuries. If people didn’t plan ahead and put money aside then they are subject to whatever situation exists in the economy. I am a Senior Citizen and am Retired. My Freezer went out on me a year ago. I could have payed Cash.I shopped around and red all the reviews etc and found one at H.D.. They also had a promotion. No Interest if you pay it off in 12 months. I get a $ 400 interest free loan. I buy meat such as T Bones, Porterhouses and New York Strips when they are on sale. Same with Vegetables. A Local Supermarket has different Buy on Get one Free Sale that changes every Thursday. I don’t buy things I don’t normally use just because they are on sale. but I will buy more of the things we normally use. We are in this mess because people lived beyoond their means.and there is more trouble coming down the line.
      1. Taxmagddeon. I have already went into detail several times on the results of the expiration of the Bush Tax cuts and the 2% payroll hoilday. Recession
      2. As a Senior you should be concerned about the 2% payroll holiday. The Payroll tax is the chief funding mechanism for Social Security which means that the Fund wuill have less money.
      3, As a Senior you should be concerned about the 500 Billion that was removed from Medicare. . Many of these are already in place. My wife has been told that one doctor she had been seeing monthly she can now only see every three months.
      4. At the present sickly GDP growth rate of 1.5% and the 1,5 trillion annual deficts there is an excellent chance that the U.S will be Bankrupt in 3 1/2 years. it is probably too late. If Obama is re-elected and the Democrats take control of both Houses again then it is most likely a sure thing. It might not be reversible . If the Republicans take control and put into place their promises then we will be given a extra 3-4 years. It may or mey not be enough.
      5. The House Repubicans have passed over 30 pieces of Major Legislation and the Senate controlled by the Democrats has shelved all of them and not even allowed an up or down vote. It is the Denocrats who are the Obstructionists but many people are convinced it s the Republicans,
      6. Polls show that 6 out of ten women favor Obama. That 6 out of 10 Hispanics favor Obama and 95% of African Americans, If the Polls are correct then he wil be re-elected and my Scenario is extermely possible.
      7. I have given a new one today which is the “Petro Dollar ” that may be unfolding and is more bad News.
      8. People get the Government they deserve. You are seeing the results of at least 20 years of Apathy, Cluelessness and Misinformation.

      • macgyver1948

        Charles Moore …… You said a lot here and more than we may have needed but I agree with you. Some of what you said, “This is only true if you are only aware of the most obvious choices out there. You have to then be satisfied with the meager Savings account rate and the rate on Treasuries“.

        If we do not plan during all the years we worked we will be depending on the government and receiving only what we earned through Social Security and not much more. That is a scary and dismal proposition because Social Security does not give enough to live on in a 30 day period if that is all you get.

        We all have to plan ahead and see what is out there as you suggest. The stock market is fine if you are a bit of a gambler but it does work for a lot of people. 401K and others are not much better than a bank’s savings accounts so there we are again depending on Government when we need to depend more on ourselves.

        Depending on government is for helping to supplement what you do for yourself, not totally rely on, when you need to but not to “take to the bank”, so to speak. And with Congress stealing from our money in Social Security to help pay for wars/etc. and not paying it back is another reason we can’t depend on Uncle Sam alone for our retirement. Will Social Security be there for us next year, or so, if the thieves do not replace what they stole? It’s our money, we earned it, and when we are eligible for it we deserve it or we couldn’t be legally and morally repaid when we retire but will it be there for us?… So we must prepare for ourselves during all the years we are still working.

        Social Security is not (charity, Welfare, a hand out, a gift) but it is ours if we put enough into it long enough and we reach the minimum required age. Why is “entitlement” such a dirty word when we are really entitled? It is a help as we need it, nothing more but so many people survive on it. Only apathetic and UN-compassionate people want to destroy Social Security also greedy ones too and it is the kind of thing Hitler would want. There are just to many people who haven’t planned ahead but we can’t abandon them now because we would just add to the death and homeless roles.

        • Charles Moore

          First of all, Social Security in the beginning was never meant to be the only income of a person. it was meant to be an addition of other Income. If you take the contribution of the employer and employee and invest it in a medium paying 5% over 40 years and retire then you will have more in payments each month then one gets now in Social Security payments and also the principal amount if you invest it at 5%. The problem is obvious. Given the choice, the majority of people would invest it poorly and/or the Government would find some way to take it.

          Lets get back to auto company X and apply it to the announcement of a recent event.,Here are the facts.
          1. General Motors has never paid back the taxpayer. It still owes about 27 Billion dollars,
          2, In order to pay back the taxpayers the GM stock used as collateral would have to sell for about $54.00. The partial IPO release of it sold for $32.50. In spite of the rise in the market , GM stock is selling for about $20,50 or about 30% below the IPO.

          General Motors just announced that Chevrolet will give a 60 day full refund on a Chevy. I have not read the conditions. It probably involves a good credit rating. Makes no difference. It is a 60 day full refund. I see articles all the time where Women buy expensive dresses for a particular occasion , wear them and return them. When i was a Manager in Retail, I have even seen Women try to return Underwear. Of course, it was prohibited because of Health reasons but that doesn’t stop them from attempting to do it all the time. Does General Motors really believe that in this environment that people won’t do this with automobiles? People return them 60 days later and get a full refund and the cars have depreciated in value. No problem. The Taxpayer will pick up the cost and Obama will bail them out.. Meanwhile General Motors has shipped Jobs overseas to several different Countries ans no outrage by the Media or people who believe this nonsense about Bain Capital outsourcing Jobs etc. This Country is doomed.. I wonder if Corvette is included or will be included in the promotion.., I bet that many people out there would be extremely happy to drive a Corvette free for sixty days.

          Funny that I have been giving the example of the Luxury car maker for years and the last time I give t then there is this announcement, Just like the taxpayer had to pick up the previous bailouts then they can also pick up this one. Everybody should be able to own a house whether they can afford it or not, Everybody should be allowed to drive a Corvette or even a new car whether they can afford it or not. Just pass the cost to the taxpayer.

          • JOSEPH FOSTER

            You hit the truth and I agree with your comments. I became angry and decided to write a book to tell the people about the deception and corruption in Washington by both political parties.
            Author ‘’Seeing Red’’ ‘How America is losing the future’ Available at:”

          • Charles Moore

            I learned twenty years ago that people need to get rid of the Politics and the Ideology and the parroting of misinformation instead of doing their one Research and that they need to follow the Economics and the Money trail. They need to read the Authors who predicted this mess early on such as Roubini, Warren Brusee and Wiedemere instead of the ones that told us everything was fine up until the end and are now playing the blame game instead of taking personal responsibility .

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore … If I remember correctly FD Roosevelt originally set up Social Security to better help many people get over the depression. Then when it turned out to be needed more and more over time we still have it now, sort of.

            And I know it is a collaborative effort between the employee and the employer and then the Government, who becomes the banker/broker, and the interest from the investment gives the deserved receiptiants a help when retirement. I know how investments work, I work the stock market the best I can and I do ok. I just do not always know how to pick the best stock for me, when to buy and always when to sell but that is ok. LOL. I am ok with how Social Security works since FDR’s time because it is safe enough.

            I have a problem with the GOPs version of solution where individuals pick and choose their own retirement stock investment. Before I go further I want to say I am so much for us choosing our lives and making our own choices. We are talking about retirement here. What if the choices that are made fail, do not produce enough dividends? Will the GOP guarantee those investments so retirees will have a retirement for this new kind of Social Security?

            Remember I said I do not always make the right choices but I do well enough now to not worry about that. If I were retired and my income is limited the choices I make for retirement investments better be guaranteed or I might become homeless and or starve. I love making my own choices and deals but not when it becomes a life and death situation. If you think I am exaggerating go ask as many on Social Security and depending on it as you can how they feel if it were even cut (lowered) some.

            Here is why I see the GOP as wanting to either totally eliminating Social Security or for it to go to private handlers. Even many states would have problems handling it with their budgets. The Corporations want to reduce their expenses and Social Security, being “a collaborative effort between the employee and the employer”, as I said above, is a way to shrink their corporate expenses. Payroll itself is an expense and it is the easiest to control but SS being eliminated would be great for the Execs.

            One of the reasons Social Security is falling is because of the wars we had to support and the Government took from the SSI fund to support the wars. And they seem to forget to pay it back. Nasty of them to forget the most important part of borrowing, the paying it back part. Also SS money, as you say, has been used for bailouts and so much of that has not been paid back to us, the people who have earned it through their pay checks.

            Also as you suggest, there are a lot of junk solutions being offered as you state with the GM Chevy refund “depreciated in value” policy. What a joke that is if it is handled that way. It should be offered with a full refund and the depreciated part being voided for the customer. The tax payer should not have to fund that if it is as you stated it is.

            Anyway, back to my point as to why the GOP wants to either totally eliminating Social Security. So many GOP is working for the benefit and protection of the big Corporations because they want the huge campaign, and other types, of contributions to continue. Simply stated, the corporations want the death of SS so the GOP is in compliance. The Tea Party, with their handling of the GOP, being of the (Koch like) corporations wants it more so and they have the money to pay for it as they do. Koch has pledge $200 million and they have help huge fund raiser for Romney’s campaign. Speaking of investments, Koch, as a huge investor, wants huge dividends, just like we all do from our investments. The Koch can just afford to buy more investments than most of us.

            I almost fell over as I was reading your last line “Everybody should be able to own a house whether they can afford it or not, Everybody should be allowed to drive a Corvette or even a new car whether they can afford it or not …” until I read “Just pass the cost to the taxpayer”. See I am a firm believer, in a Democracy, that Government must be fair and equitable to all and in the private sector, when it comes to making purchases, we should be able to buy only what we can afford and support. Just ask those in the repossession business what they think of that, :-). With that said, I do feel we, as a supposedly compassionate country we should be helpful to those who really deserve the help. Stupidity is not always the good excuse to not help.

            One question. Why do you say “Meanwhile General Motors has shipped Jobs overseas to several different Countries ans no outrage by the Media or people who believe this nonsense about Bain Capital”? How is it ‘nonsense’ when we know Bain killed so many jobs (and he outsources many jobs as Governor of Massachusetts) because Romney said “it was all done in the name of good business”. As if he was justifying it all to put so many here out of work. And this Mitt guy is a religious compassionate humanitarian? He is what he is and he will be that kind of businessman if he wins the Oval Office for Koch and them. Every time Romney speaks I hear a Koch voice come out of his mouth…

          • Charles Moore

            First of all, you are taking my posts out of context. I never said that I believed that everybody ought to be able to own a house whether they can afford it or not and everybody should experience being able to drive a Corvette. I said that there are people out there who have this attitude.. I don’t know if Corvette is part of or will be part of the package as the announcement was for the Chevy. When Social Security was established it was not meant as a cure all income.There were also many workers who paid into it and supported each worker. People also didn’t live that long after being eligible to receive it. I have no idea if this was plan that was more political and the idea wasn’t that most would live long enough to collect it anyway. It was touted as a supplement to income at the time. You keep mentioning the GOP. I can’t recall a specific mention of “Democrats” by you which makes be suspicious. Lets take the criticism about Ryan and his Medicare plan. There has been no discussion about it but dishonest ads showing Grandma being pushed off the cliff etc. I have heard all the whiners complaining about the great Health Plan for members of Congress. The Ryan plan was the answer to it. There were two Major problems for it that I have never seen mentioned at all. The first is the fact that members of Congress have aides that can shop around and find the best plans and the average person doesn’t have access to them. The other flaw is that there is a question as to the difference between the subsidized amount and the amount paid by the Senior. Of course, these can be discussed and worked out. The fact is that Ryan is the only one in either party that has offered the individual choice. How can you have discussions when the Republican House has passed 30 pieces of Major Legislation and the Senate controlled by the Democrats has shelved them all and not even allowed anup ir down vote. I find it very suspicious that I have mentioned this Obstruction by the Senate several times and you have not only not commented on it but continue t mention the GOP by name. Ii is not only the stealing of S.S. Funds for other means but it has been morphed into other plans to buy votes. I remember when I was a Manager in Retail. The head of all the cashiers was in a very bad marriage. Her husband was a drug and stole money from her and abused her so she took their two daughters and left him. She never had any contact with him and he died a few years later. He had never changed his S.S. beneficiaries so this woman was informed that she and her daughters would get S.S. benefits. It has also morphed into a Disability program. There were 80,000 new hires for the latest month. There were 85,000 people or 5.000 more that were given disability benefits. This appears to be the new game. Run out of Unemployment benefits and get Disability payments. There is one person getting some form of entitlement benefits for every 1.65 people. This is not sustainable. It was the Democrats that pushed this 2% payroll tax holiday. The Payroll tax is the chief funding mechanism foe S.S.. Have you any idea how many Billions of dollars was lost to it and this doesn’t include the 500 Billion taken away in Obama Care for Seniors. This is a Democrat Bill. Not one member of the GOP voted for it. You are correct about one thing. Social Security is “Safe”. I have detailed how one could have better payments and keep the Principal if the Employer and Employee contributions were invested instead. The Republicans attempted to make it more productive, The idea was great.The majority of people couldn’t make the right decisons.

            President Clinton put a limit on S.S. income.After that limit there is a tax on it. It is $25.000 for a single person and $32,500 for a married couple. If you make over those amounts then your S.S. is taxable. You don;t remember the cries that Clinton thinks you are Rich if you make $32,000?,The SSA doesn’t take it out in taxes and you continue with tour regular payments. The SSA just reduces your regular payments until your income is more normal. Another assault on S,S by a Democrat. Gee they all seem to be assaults on S.S. by Democrats who claim to be its main Defender. This year , a Senate Democrat from W. Virginia stated on the Senate Floor that he was ashamed that Democrats pushed for the
            2% payroll holiday. Could have been a Political move but it is true. So much for S.S.

  • ChuckL

    The story that led to these posts is false. It places the blame for the lack of funds in the United States on the Military, when it should be placed on the unconstitutional agencies that congress has created and the unconstitutional laws that these agencies as as “regulations”. These “laws” have added many costs to products with NO benefits.

    Then the congress has passed laws that simply stop the sale of medical cures because these cures are not patentable for the reason that they are “Natural” and can not therefore be patented.

    I suggest that the next time you are given a prescription by anyone who is authorized to do so that before you fill this prescription you download the MSDS sheet for the product from the internet. MSDS stands for “Material Safety Data Sheet” It is a government required warning about dangers with any product sold.

    Bob Livingston does a good job of providing warnings, but every now and then he goes overboard. In this story he has gone overboard in placing blame.

    The costs that have placed this country near, or into, bankruptcy are not the wars, although they have been fairly useless and expensive. The real problem is the unconstitutional federal agencies, which by not being authorized in the Constitution are unconstitutional for the federal government and as stated in the 10th amendment are reserved to the states or to the people. This is compounded by the federal agency requiring the states to provide funding for the federal agencies’ programs.

    In many cases these federal agencies usurp the powers and legal rights of existing state agencies, agencies which were doing a fairly good job or which were about to be terminated because their program was clearly flawed and they were slated for elimination. There is no justification to believe that a federal agency would get different results from the same program.

    • Charles Moore

      People just don’t get it and the Media doesn’t cover it. There may or may not have been WMDs in Iraq. The main reason for the invasion of Iraq was the “Petro Dollar” and it didn’t start with Bush. It started 39 years ago or about 1973. Saudi Arabia had decided to nominate the price of Oil with a Basket of currencies such as the Japanese yen, Swiss Franc , the dollar and Gold. We had gone off the gold Standard. The POTUS convinced Saudi Arabia to base the price of Oil only on American Dollars in exchange for promising that the U.S. would always protect its Oil fields etc. Saudi Arabia agreed to it. In 2001 there was little published about it and consequently not noticed especially with the situation in Florida that got all the coverage. Iraq for whatever reason had decided to base the price of its Oil on another currency. It wasn’t Oil per se but the Petro dollar.. Imagine the situation in the Financial Markets and the Futures Market. and the value of the Dollar. There was another scare with the advent of the Euro which was considered second to the dollar.. There has also been no coverage of another event. One would not know about it unless they went deep into Finance. A few years ago Venezuela and Iran formed a strategic partnership. Since then there has been an agreement between China, Russia, Iran and Venezuela to try and convert out of the dollar and base the price of oil in another currency. Iran has vowed to sell their oil starting September the 21st in that currency. I suspect but can’t prove that this is the main reason that Obama wanted to extend our presence in Iraq even though Bush had signed the withdrawal treaty in 2008. Iraq is next door to Iran and Iran is now threatening to close the Hormuz Strait through which 20% of the World Oil must be transported, The Nuclear threat is a red herring, North Korea which is much more aggressive is not considered a threat. The only threat by Iran right now is to Israel and Obama has demonstrated that he doesn’t really care about them. Obama certainly doesn’t want to risk bombing Iran before the Election here in November, It would be much better if Israel does it and Obama can claim a distance from Israel which he can document by his actions toward them.

  • Marlene

    Good article except you forgot to mention that the food stamp program under obama has cost more then the entire Iraq war. Not to mention he is rebulding Kenya with tax payer dollars and not a word anywhere.


      The food stamps are used to feed hungry Americans, whereas wars enrich the merchants of Arms and cause the death of Americans. Do you prefer wars as more justified than food for the poor. Are you a person that has no compassion for the poor?

      • Charles Moore

        “Compassion for the poor??????” Food stamps were meant to be a bridge for the poor until they got back on their feet. It has become an entitlement . There is not only all sorts of fraud but this Administration has also been dismantling the Welfare Reform that was created during the Clinton Administration by such things as not requiring people to work in any capacity in exchange for their checks. People on Food Stamps can buy cigarettes and junk food etc now and the taxpayers get to pay for this lifestyle. There have been cases where people have won a million dollars in the Lottery and qualify for food stamps. This Administration is running commercials to encourage people to apply for food stamps even if they think that they don’t qualify for them. One in seven Americans now get food stamps. Food Stamps at the present rate will cost 770 Billion over ten years.

        • Jeff

          Oh please, can you provide more details about the lottery winners on food stamps? Sounds like Reagan’s fictional “welfare queens” in their Cadillacs and the “young bucks”
          he similarly maligned. Because fraud exists, let’s get rid of the program and give more tax cuts to Mitt Romney! Great ideas. I think we had that system in the 19th century.

          • JOSEPH FOSTER

            I became angry and I agree with our comments those that oppose food for the poor are the same people that promote Jobs for China and America. The employment of low paid Chinese and Indian labor elevates their profits wrote a book.
            Author ‘’Seeing Red’’ ‘How America is losing the future’ Available at:”

          • Charles Moore

            Some people need to wake up. Lottery winnings are considered “unearned income” in the tax code. You will have to pay Federal taxes and perhaps State taxes on it depending on your State., Unearned income does not affect food stamps. It also doesn’t affect Unemployment income. If you win enough money to put you over the $25,00 for single people and $32,500 for couples then you could lose S.S. benefits etc.

          • Jeff

            Oh, so the lottery winners on food stamps are merely theoretical, just like the welfare queen in her Ferrari. She could be a great gambler, winning money every day playing craps, then collect food stamps. Hey, it’s POSSIBLE.

          • Charles Moore

            Jeffie again. Lottery winnings are considered “unearned income” in the tax code. Do you win a substantial amount in the Lottery every month?. One can also win the a substantial sum in the Lottery and be unemployed and still qualify for Unemployment benefits. You will pay taxes on it.

            Jeffie. This is the last time I will reply to your childish.ignorant and clueless comments. I am still waiting for your answer of which time your idol POTUS Obama or Senator Obama was being untruthful about the need to consult Congress before engaging in hostilities with another Country.


    Until you find a fairer system of giving good welfare to your citizens in return for production of value to your economy, wars will continue to create employment for the surviving American soldiers and their families. I bet if you add up the value of wages and extras for your forces…that those sums far outweigh the cost of military hardware…and so far in your society you are not prepared to give similar money to people to stay at home when there is no work available. The other advantage of wars for your country is the expertise gained by your various military departments so they will always be in readiness to defend in all theatres of war. No one like any of your military personell to die and nor do we want the enermy personell to die, but as long as we have aggressors in this world, and there are many…then WE MUST [YOU MUST] engage in wars to protect our way of life otherwise we risk much worse like being taken over and becoming slaves of our agressors.

    Will Presidents make mistakes and errors ? Maybe, but your Presidents rely on the intelligence gathering expertise of your various military personell…they are professional, they are intelligent and they think like military people. Mistakes are only relative to set parameters…but when agressors make people believe they have weapons of mass destruction….what are your Presidents to do? What advice are your military advisors to give to your Presidents? Should they say he is bluffing ? Should they they think…we dont want to risk our lives for our citizens who may not believe we need to attack our aggressors? We dont want our young marines to die in a war against Suddam Hussien, who claims he has no weapons of mass estruction but he lets us know by other means that he has weapons, he has access to suicide bombers.. Is it their job to worry about your budget deficit or is it their job to defend your /our liberty?

    Is it better to be a slave without debts or a free citizen with debts and deficits and fear of owing money which was used to pay for your military personell to defend your liberty? When you defend your Liberty, your are also defending our liberty.and we dont mind playing host to your military personell in Australia. They learn…we learn by meeting our friends and our families amoung them.

    You need to get off your high horse and criticize the role of Presidents and your military…its a tough and very complex issue and afterall folks…who is risking their lives to defend your Liberty? Its very easy for your and us to write on our computers in our safe cosy homes without much fear of getting shot at or blown up to smidderines but who is looking after your nation, who has the responsibility to look after your general security…the President and the Presidents men,,,,and the military. Let them do their jobs without us idiots telling them how do do their job and when.

    Paul Craig Roberts …you graphs and pie charts are all very interesting and true…but deficits are/is just paper money…easily printed and replaced, but Freedom and Liberty once lost is not easily regained. Its great to be in a position to worry about your terrible deficits but would be much worse to be worried about missles and bullets flying oround outside your homes….get things into perpective before you whinge and whine about your terrible deficits,,,PLEASE.

    • Jeff

      To paraphrase Mark Twain: War is good for the economy like cannibalism is nutritious.

  • raw

    The US grows by 150,000 a MONTH?!?!? Am I the only person who finds that appalling? YOU CANNOT HAVE INFINITE CONSUMPTION ON A FINITE SPHERE.

    • Moester

      The Us grows by 150,000 a month?….Contraception, contraception, contraception. I wonder how many of those births are illegitimate? It’s time to prevent entitlement women from procreating. If you can’t financially afford children, then you CAN NOT have them. Contraception or sterilization.


        How many of those 150,000 per month are illegal immigrants? Is the a net growth or gross growth per month? How many are dying per month? How many births per month?

  • smj_29576

    I wish I had the time to read all of the responses above but alas I have a job and I have to run an errand during my lunch break. I would like to say that it is a sad day in this country when half of its citizens pay no taxes and then continue the mantra of “fairness”. What is fair about taking money from those who have worked hard, put their own financial well-being on the line and in some cases, helped to employ others to give that money to those who chose to squander their own opportunities. Obviously, people who are successful can look within themselves to help those less fortunate but we should be taking care of the sick and helpless not the clueless. The Founding Father’s in their infinite wisdom helped to design a country with a small centralized government for a reason. The role of the Federal Government is to keep us free and to keep us safe. It is not to feed us, house us, clothe us or even educate us yet the voters in this country have allowed the Feds to grow exponentially giving them more and more power. The Dems just want to create more welfare junkines and by extension, poverty. What kind of economic plan is that? Our Corporate tax rate is now the highest in the industrialized world. You have to jump thru hoops and do cart wheels due to rules and regulations just to get a business started and then most small businesses fail within the first 5 years. Yet, for some reason these people are EVIL – please don’t make me laugh or better yet, thanks for the laugh. Hey Dems – my husband and I shouldered the costs involved with starting his business. We worked long hours and 7 days a week while I work a full time job giving us benefits – why – because it is our responsibility to take care of ourselves. We ran up credit card debt to help float his business during tough times and we borrowed money from our 401K to help pay bills during your great economic recovery :( Oh, thx so much for the road the UPS driver uses to deliver the equipment. Yes, the road paid for by individual and corporate income taxes! Yes, the same road that was probably built while you were a small boy in Kenya :) :) :) Ha, Ha. I had to get that one in. Take care all and have a good day.

    • macgyver1948

      smj_29576 .. just a quick not in response to what you say…, “I would like to say that it is a sad day in this country when half of its citizens pay no taxes and then continue the mantra of “fairness”.

      Let’s remember, to be fair(ness), that many of those who pay none or very little taxes are millionaires/billionaires who can afford to buy lower taxes (it isn’t just Warren Buffer who pays less taxes than his secretary) and some others of those who pay lower or none cannot afford to pay taxes even if they are working.

      Then at the end of your post you said “( Oh, thx so much for the road the UPS driver uses to deliver the equipment. Yes, the road paid for by individual and corporate income taxes! Yes, the same road that was probably built while you were a small boy in Kenya :) :) :) Ha, Ha. I had to get that one in”.

      Why do people who hate Obama pick on him when he was a little boy after he left Hawaii? HE WAS A LITTLE BOY – DUH. How many little boys or girls do you know who can go to places without a parent or guardian taking them? He had no choice and he returned to the country he was born in a few years later. What did Obama have to do with that road you picked on to laugh at him? “:) :) :) Ha, Ha”. Your point is pointless and not even funny.

      I hope you can always take care of yourself because if you can’t you might just find very UN-compassionate people just like you for help. I don’t want handouts either but I hope when I am old and retired my Social Security will be there to help me if I need it and not all used up to pay for immoral wars (huh GW).

      You say “The Dems just want to create more welfare junkines and by extension, poverty”. You really believe that rotten TEA hype, don’t you. I know so many Dems and none that I know of want “to create more welfare junkines and by extension, poverty”. Most Dems are compassionate and caring people. Just TEA programming.

      Enjoy your lunch break… Take your time though…

      • Charles Moore

        I am convinced now that you are part of the problem. Most of the Income of Buffet are Stock dividends which right now have a maximum tax of 15%. So a couple that had an income of only Stock Dividends in the amount of $100,000 would only have a tax obligation of $15,000.They wouldn’t even have to itemize. After two personal exemptions and the Standard deduction they would pay little or none on that $100,000. Salaries/Wages are taxed at the full percentage for that level. The Secretary of Buffet gets a salary of $400,000 and pays taxes on $400,000. Buffet gets $400,000 in Stock Dividends and has a tax obligation of $60,000 in this case or a maximum of 15%. Of course he pays less and you have the same opportunity . Romney is in the same position and also has a 3 million dollar charitable donation which reduces it to an effective rate of 13.9%. If the Idiots that are financially challenged then they need to have the Tax cde changed and all the loop holes closed. The first Loop hole that should go is the biggest subsidy in it which is the Mortgage deduction and was recommended by the Debt commission formed by Obama and which he has ignored.
        If people aren’t competent enough to make the comment then they shouldn’t make it. Didn’t you state that you worked in a Bank. If it was you or somebody else that parroted such an absurd distortion and scam then tell me the name of the Bank so I can be sure to avoid it. And people wonder why this Country is in Financial straits.

        • Jeff

          Yes, it’s only Obama who refuses to get rid of the mortgage interest deduction, the only significant “loophole” most middle class people can utilize. Are you kidding me? Find one politician with an interest in re-election who will support getting rid of that deduction. Plus, the deduction is a large part of the allure of home ownership. Ending the deduction would cause another slump in housing prices. Regardless of the merits of such an action, I don’t see it happening anytime soon.

          Now, if Romney gets elected with a Republican Congress, I can see a change in the law to give the mortgage deduction only on 2nd homes (or on 1st and 2nd homes if your name begins with an “R”).

      • http://N/A CintiCB

        Most of the people who don’t pay taxes are NOT the millionaires. The ones who I know, usually, PAY between a quarter to a half a million per year in taxes!!! Her comments have NOTHING to do with the Tea Party. She (like MANY MANY MANY others) are so sick of working so hard just to see much of THEIR EARNINGS go to those who have screwed up their lives by becoming addicted, not learning how to read, dropping out of school, just plain lazy, or simply think that they’re too ‘smart’ to go to work everyday when they can do nothing productive and still get paid. Your manipulative prez. made that ignorant comment to appease his ‘certain’ voters by telling them that the successful are just lucky and are no better than them just because they try and work hard. You, probably, swear by NBC news, don’t ya? I know quite a few small business owners-THEY WORKED VERY HARD FOR IT!!! Of course, there’s always some degree of luck to it. Did you ever hear the adage ‘you make your own luck’? This ‘luck’ is started merely by graduating from school and acting like a civilized person. One more thing, VERY MANY wealthy people are VERY generous and giving, though, preferring to choose to whom they give. Why should their earnings from hard work and sacrifice feed someones’ addiction to drugs/alcohol? Now, don’t go and get all righteous-I know that ALL of these freeloaders aren’t addicted. Some really do need the help, but, they need to try somewhat, at least. Your prez. basically, recently told them that they don’t even have to try. He changed the Welfare to work rules. The guy is desperate. He sees his ‘certain’ votes slipping away, so, has to make them happy. The WORST kind is the deperate kind!!!

        • Charles Moore

          It is a misconception that all the people who don’t pay Federal taxes are freeloaders or poor. I have detailed how it is possible for a couple that has $100,000 entirely comprised of Stock dividends to pay no taxes. If they are both over 65 years of age then they get another $2000 in deductions. It is the tax code. The only fair way is to reduce the tax brackets and eliminate ALL the loopholes. Obama wants to distort and scam with the so called Buffet rule instead of laying out the facts that the Tax code doesn’t treat all income equally so he can raise the taxes on everybody making over 200K. Obama and the Democrats have been against the Bush tax cuts from the beginning. The cost for those making under $200K is $220 Billion a year. The cost for those making over 200K is 75 Billion a year. There is three times as much money in the group making under 200K. Do a search on “Bush tax cuts”. This is why he only wants to extend it for those making less than 200K FOR ONLY ONE YEAR. It is working because Polls show that 60% of people believe in the Buffet Rule which is a scam and a distortion and 40% believe that it is a good idea to raise taxes on those making over 200K a year because people are clueless and ignorant in this area. The top 10% of Income earners pay 70% of Federal taxes. When you average in the 50% that pay no taxes then the other 90% pays 1.85% on average. When you figure that the top 10% pay 70% of the taxes and there are 50% who pay no taxes then the rest or other 40% pay the other 30%. The Republican House has passed 30 pieces of major legislation and the Senate controlled by the Democrats has shelved them all and not allowed even and up or down vote so they have denied the American people a voice on the Senate floor. Recently the Democrats in the Senate stated that if the Republicans insist on extend all Bush tax cuts that the SENATE WILL NOT APPROVE ANY TAX EXTENSIONS AND WILL DRIVE THE COUNTRY INTO A RECESSION.DELIBERATELY DRIVE THE COUNTRY INTO A RECESSION IF THEY DON’T GET THEIR WAY and people are supporting them????This Country is finished.

    • Charles Moore

      This Country is Finished. It had been going downhill but in 2008 Senator Obama made the statement that ” The US. Constitution is flawed and needed to be changed to reflect more chances for everybody”. The only reason that people could vote for such a person is that either they are clueless or want a handout. His wife Michelle stated that this was the first time in her life that she was proud of America.I won’t go over the times that this POTUS has trampled on the U.S. Constitution, played the hypocrite and outright lied about events. The House Republicans have passed 30 pieces of Major Legislation including Budgets and Jobs bills and the Senate controlled by the Democrats has shelved them all and not even allowed an up or down vote. The Democrats in Congress haven’t submitted a Budget in over three years even though they controlled both Houses of Congress from January 2007-2011. and the White House since January 2009 yet they have divided the Country and about have been brainwashed to the extent that they are convinced the Republicans are the Obstructionist party. Thirty nine years ago Saudi Arabia wanted to base the price of Oil on a basket of currencies and Gold. The U.S, was off the Gold Standard and convinced them that the U.S. would protect them and their Oil fields in exchange for the price being in only dollars which came to be known as Petro Dollars. Maybe its a coincidence that we went into Iraq in 2001 when Iraq announced that they were going to accept a currency other than the dollar for their oil. A little over a year ago there was a conference that consisted of China. Russia. Iran, and Venezuela to plan on another currency besides the dollar for Oil. Iran has announced that it will start accepting another currency for its Oil. The largest Oil producers are Saudi Arabia. Iran Russia and the United States. Maybe its another coincidence that even though North Korea has been trying to go Nuclear and is more aggressive than Iran but we have ignored them and are now in the Hormuz Strait. If Iran and the others succeed in going into a currency other than the dollar then Countries will dump all their dollars that they are holding to purchase oil for the other currency. You don;t wait until you need the Oil and then convert. You have that currency in Reserve. Of course, there will be a run on the dollar. The Democrats have announced that : if the Republicans insist on extending taxes on those making over 200K then they will not grant any taxes and will drive the Country into a Recession. This is a Joke. It cost 75 Billion a year to extend it for those making over 200K and 220 Billion or three times as much for those making less than 200K. Obama and the Democrats have always been against the Bush tax cuts. So why do you think they only want to extend it for one year for those making under 200K. They are coming after them after one year if they are re-elected. Should be pretty obvious here. POTUS Obama announced yesterday that it was garbage that successful people made it mostly on their own. This is somebody that has never signed a check on the front an only endorsed a check on the back. If it holds here as in Europe that a Country that reached Bankruptcy when National Debt reached 130% of GDP then we will be Bankrupt at our present GDP trend of 1.5% and annual deficits of 1,5 trillion in 3 1/2 years.The Recessions in Japan and the U.S both started when Consumer Debt was 130% of consumer disposable income . Is this 130% another coincidence. But look how many have been brainwashed to believe it was the Fault of Bush. At any rate, this Country is finished, Whether it be the dumping and destruction of the dollar, the Recession that the Democrats have stated that they will deliberately cause if they don’t get their way or Bankruptcy. Of course, this doesn’t include possible hyperinflation due to the actions of the same Federal Reserve who added to the Financial mess in 2008 by excessively restricting Credit. I am prepared just as I was in 2008 . People can hide their head in the sand at their own peril and remain ignorant and not heed the warnings again.

  • macgyver1948

    I see so many here enjoy taking others peoples words, those they disagree with, and adding their own words and meanings to them to justify their anger or their existence or whatever. I see this too, not only with political issues, from those with that “Only we are right so you have to be wrong” religious attitude as well. I do not claim I am always right and when I write I say what I feel but I cannot include every thought. So there much be loads of room in what I leave out for the hateful, religious or political, to jump in to point out my failings.

    Good for you who are this way. I get a big kick out of those who do employ their programming in this manner. As any here I give my opinion but I guess that is not allowed if it differs from others. But you who do make this place a little more fun and I thank you for that.

    For those with their own brain in their control, even if your do not agree with me, ask me anything and lets keep it on an adult level without the insults, name calling and childishnesses. I enjoy a good academic chat with decent and intelligent people and I will never try to change their minds. I am not always right and I will respect your views. That is what sites like this should be about, the free exchange of ideas by adults. Isn’t that what Bob Livingston tried to say in his article the other day?

    • Charles Moore

      If you want to be taken seriously then you need to do your research before parroting such talking points as the Buffet Rule and the Koch brothers which are distortions, false and misleading.

      • macgyver1948

        Charles Moore…The distortions, of which you speak, are only in the minds of those who choose to not agree but more so by those who choose to believe they are “distortions” before really checking them out and perhaps have been taught to say so by those who want them to. Wordy I know but it needed to be said. You never have to agree with me Charlie. I am not on here to be agreed with or to change minds but maybe to get people to think for themselves and to really find out. Mostly though to learn about other people.

        I am always suggesting that people do all their own research and not just take my word for it or the word of their chosen party. It was funny how in grad school they insisted that we learn to research the point of view we do not agree along with the ones we do so we could really learn something and to get us to think. If all we do is take the word of any party as gospel we are wasting our minds. A mind is a terrible thing to waste Charlie…. :-)))…

  • Stephen Tareila

    Many people have financial problems due to that guy in the mirror. Many could save more but just keep spending. Also many could work a part-time or second job in addition to their regular work. This is especially true for the young. Add in the aforementioned frugality and many can get ahead.

    However governments persist in regressive taxation. Social Security and Medicare taxes are INCOME taxes starting on the very 1st dollar. The states’ income and other taxes are also regressive. Younger Americans should be buying advanced education, cars, and homes; not funding the Ponzi Schemes of Social Security and Medicare. This would allow them to keep and spend more of their own money which Reagan said they would do better than government.

    I agree that federal and state spending are out of control but do not favor punitive taxation of the top 15% producers in this country. Unlike the Socialists who want Romney to pay a higher tax rate; I want mine and yours reduced to his. Then the government will have to curb spending and demand for goods and services will be driven by earning consumers.

    Most young people could get ahead if they worked diligently, eliminated most discretionary spending for a few years, and invested their savings; and they would be greatly helped if governments ended or at least curbed their punishing regressive taxation as noted above.

    • http://N/A CintiCB

      Social Security is NOT a Ponzi Scheme-it’s worse! A Ponzi Scheme is where there are initial investors who are, then, paid with new investors’ money. MANY who, now, get Soc. Security have NEVER paid into it! The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) part of Soc. Security is, basically, the new Welfare. Originally intended for babies born with disabilities who, of course, had never paid into it is, now, going to adults who have never paid ANY taxes!!! MANY of these adults get it because they’re addicts, illiterate (no lie), or whatever other ‘disability’ the Welfare wanna-bes can invent. A large part of Soc. Security money is being used as the new Welfare. This IS worse than a Ponzi Scheme!!!!!!!

      • Jeff

        Yes, the world was better before Social Security. When people got too old to work anymore, they either moved in with their kids or they had the decency to die. Much better than our current system. Mantains your notions of order.

      • macgyver1948

        CintiCB… You said “Social Security is NOT a Ponzi Scheme-it’s worse! A Ponzi Scheme is where there are initial investors who are, then, paid with new investors’ money. MANY who, now, get Soc. Security have NEVER paid into it! The Supplemental Security Income (SSI) part of Soc. Security is, basically, the new Welfare”.

        Well, from what I see you are saying it seems, to you, that there are scammers in the systems. Imagine that, some people cheating a government system.

        The fact is most who receive are those who paid into it while they were working. To begin receiving you have to qualify. First you must be at least 62. Then they check to see if you paid into it long enough. Then they see if you paid enough of your salary into it while you were working. If you do not meet these requirements you are rejected from receiving. So, it the the SSI recipient’s money set aside for them for when they are eligible. SSI is not charity or Welfare or a handout or a freebie for the vast majority of SSI receiptiants.

        And for the most part SSI was initially established by FD Roosevelt to help people get past the Depression and then they saw how helpful it was for older people retiring. Try looking at Trickle Down for those huge corporations who do not allow enough to trickle to help anyone as a
        “new Welfare.” That is a real worse-than Ponzi scheme.

        • http://N/A CintiCB

          The SSI to which I am referring does not stand for Social Security Income which is what you described. I, actually, get SSDI-Social Security Disability Income, into which I paid every paycheck (total tax deductions were approx. $1000.00 per paycheck). After my injury, the hospital put me on SSDI. I get, per month, about what I’d earned per week-major lifestyle change!!! Many of the people in the (low-income) neighborhood to which I had to move got SSI (Supplemental Security income). They ‘knew’ that I received SSI. I told them that I wasn’t sure-didn’t even know what this was. I phoned the Social Security office to inquire about this. This is what I was told, “SSI is Supplemental Security Income which is for people who have never paid into the system. Let me bring up your record and I can let you know. OH(!), no, you get SSDI which is Social Security Disability income. You paid more in taxes than a lot of people have ever made!!!” I’m not saying (or believing) that I’m better than anyone or anything. I just get frustrated with people who have never worked a day in their life who get Soc. Security money under the SSI plan because they’re addicted to drugs/alcohol, because they can’t read, because they’re too obese to hold a job, etc. I still tried to work, but, the doctors were right. After around ten years I, finally,’threw in the towel’ and realized that they were correct in their prognosis. OMG, this was the hardest thing that I ever had to do!!! Call the Social Security office (1-800-772-1213) and ask them to explain the difference to you. You will, probably, then understand why SSI (Supplemental Security Income) is NOT the same thing as Social Security for the elderly or TRULY disabled. I SURELY hope that you NEVER have to find out through the actual experiencing of it. Thanks.

          • macgyver1948

            CintiCB… Sorry, but I hope you see I obviously made that mistake, I am in no way disabled so I never want SSDI-Social Security Disability Income. And I do not want SSI, what I mistakenly took your post for, until I can’t see clearly enough through the windshield any longer. I knew stuff comes out of my paycheck but I just figured Uncle Sam is tougher than I am so I expected it all, the payroll deductions, were righteous. At least that is how Human Resources tells it (but with their wording, LOL).

            The systems of our government are sadly abused by many but there are so many who deserve things like SSI when they qualify. I might see it as an old quote and I wish I could remember the name of the guy in history who said it. It went something like this – “I would rather see 100 guilty people go free than for 1 innocent man to be put in prison”. I agree with that but that itself scares me a bit. What I mean is I would rather some undeserving people cheat the system and collect than to deny a deserving needy person. So many deserving and needy receiptiants of SSI would become homeless and starve without it. I am not sure how that would work but that is my feeling.

    • Charles Moore

      Are you serious? One statement shows your overwhelming Ignorance. That would be the one where you state that every body should have the same tax rate as Romney. That situation already exists for you. All of the income of Romney is Stock dividends. The IRS taxes Stock dividends at a maximum of 15%. Romney further reduces that rate to 13.9% by donating three million dollars to charity which is tax deductible as it is for all Americans. If a couple had $100,000 in income and it was all from Stock Dividends than their maximum tax obligation would be 15% or $15,000. After deducting their Personal exemptions and just the Standard deduction without even itemizing then they would pay little or no tax on that $100,000. If they are both over 65 years of age then they get another $2000 in deductions. This is also why Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate than his Secretary who has most of her income from a Salary. Apparently you are one of the clueless , naive and gullible who has bought into the nonsense. This also makes you one of the huge problems in the U.S. since you vote based on distortions and misinformation.

      • macgyver1948

        Charles Moore… Yep, GW Bush reduced the Capital Gains Tax for his very wealthy buddies. We who aren’t so wealthy were only tag alongs. What I mean is the wealthier you are the more Capital Gains taxes will benefit you. Or another way of putting it, the more you can afford to invest the more Capital Gains will benefit you.

        You are right that we all can benefit from Bush dropping it to 15% but the guy who can afford to invest only $100 a month will not benefit nearly as much as a Mitt. Also the Mitt can make huge charitable donations so he can lower his tax commitment even more – much more than the non-Mitt. This was not done for us but for the very wealthy.

        So, we should all find ways to become very wealthy but hopefully not as a job killer or in ways that will hurt the many but benefit the Mitts out there.

        Yep, Warren Buffet is smart and he also uses this system.

        • Charles Moore

          Are you really that Stupid?. Over 30 years ago I started investing 10% of my Income. I then paid essentials such as my Mortgage, Food and Utilities. If there was then no money left over then my family did without.I have no Debts. I am Retired and have an income of about $40,000 a year. Merrill Lynch pioneered the small Investor plan over 40 years ago and today you have plans such as Share builder for the little person with commissions as low as $4.00. I have an income of about $40,000 a year and pay no taxes the way it is structured. I have assets in Silver in the 5 figure range in the form of Morgan Dollars and about the same in the Stock Market.

          I have “NEVER” made the average income which is now about $45,000 a year. I get tired of listening to the envy of the whiners and their distortions instead of the real problem. Your Idol Obama claims the Economy is going in the right direction. Only a fool believes this nonsense.GDP on an annual basis was 4% in the last quarter of 2011. It was 2% in the first quarter of this year and the last quarter was 1.5%.

          We are going over a fiscal cliff. It cost 2,2 trillion over ten years or 220 Billion a year to extend tax cuts fore those making under 200K year. It cost 800 Billion over 10 years to extend it for those making over 200K or 80 Billion a year . The money is with those making under 200K. Why do you think Obama wants to extend t for only one year.? This Administration is not talking about the 2% payroll holiday that expires at the same time.This is 100 Billion a year. So the expiration of all the Bush Tax cuts and the payroll holiday amounts to $400 Billion a year which is more than 3% of the Economy. This means that this 400 Billion dollars increase in taxes is 400 Billion less for consumers to spend in an economy that is 70% consumer driven. Taken another way you have 3% taken out of the Economy and a paltry 1,5 % growth rate in GDP. This means a “NEGATIVE” 1.5% growth rate and a Recession. The Democrats are threatening to drive the Country into a Recession if the Republicans insist on extending them all. Only a fool would vote for some body that threatens to deliberately throw the Country into a Recession. I am ready either way. So the ignorant , Gullible and Mis informed can continue to ignore basic economics and basic math. Enjoy the Soup lines. while you are whining about Romney

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore. I could be retired now if I want to be but I don’t. I have no credit card debt and I am well above water financially with my investments and my work. I will be joking about Romney because he is a phony and an insult to our country and my religion but I will not be whining. He might be guilty of breaking Constitutional and federal Law when it comes to Freedom of Religion. I look forward to that coming out in full bloom. He is a joke and insult in Israel now and I hope all American Jews dump him at the election. He sure is a joke in Great Britain so he takes his insults on the road. He is an insult to all those who aren’t Corporate – He will Bain us if he wins. So, I won’t be whining about him. :-)…

          • Charles Moore

            You have your head buried in the sand really deep. I don’t pay much attention to the Political nonsense. You are obviously really gullible since you believe that Romney etc are ripping people off when it is the tax code that is the problem. I have a lot of problems with Romney but Hypocrisy is not one of them.

            The News this morning is that the increase in recent sales of General Motors is a result of “Sub Prime Loans” Ninety three percent of its Loans are Sub Prime and Obama is going around the Country railing against Predatory Lending. You need to keep working. Nobody is talking about the 2% Payroll holiday so you will see an increase in taxes there. I have only talked about the Bush tax cuts and the 2% payroll holiday.

            You also have Obama Care. SCOTUS also ruled that the Federal Government can’t threaten the States that opt out by withholding Medicaid Funds. People that were planning on qualifying for an extended Medicaid are out of luck in the States that opt out but will have to pay the “TAX”There are thousands of employers and unions who have received waivers and so far 10% of Employers have already stated that they will pay the cheaper tax rather then provide insurance for their employees and the number is growing. These employees will have to get it elsewhere ir pay a tax.It is a tax . There is no repeal. They have hired 14 thousand more IRS agents for it. Everybody will have to file a tax form every year regardless of Income and give proof of Insurance. Since it is a “TAX” then the IRS can withhold a refund, attach your wages, freeze your Bank Account , put a Lien on your property . access Interest and Penalties just like a regular unpaid taxes. The IRS can also levy fines and send you to Prison if you lie on the form. just as they do with an unpaid tax now,

            There is a 2% tax on Medical devices which will be passed on to the Consumer just like any other tax. if you sell your home there is a 3.8% tax on the Sale of it for Obama Care. There are many other indirect taxes.

            We are heading for a Fiscal cliff economically. The direction Obama is going is a Guaranty for it. The U.S. will be Bankrupt in 3 1/2 years if 130% Debt to GDP is nay indication as it has been for other Countries, This will be after the possible Recession in the coming months. It can be delayed by Romney et al for another 3 years.however, I am not sure that the Republicans have the necessary guts to reverse it instead of just delay it.People that depend on any form of entitlements might get a rude awakening.

            When I was going to College I had a Political Science Professor who used grades to illustrate Socialism. A passing grade was 70% and everybody needed to pass the course. A person with a grade average of 90% would give 20% to a person with 50% and they would both pass the course etc. If course, the marginal students would slack off and more percentages would be needed to be transferred. More and more students would use the time elsewhere and eventually there would no be enough students to pass on the percentages to the failing students. So the only solution to keep the scheme would be to carry the percentages on to the next class. Eventually they would run out of people to pass on the percentages just like any other such program where they run out of other peoples money. The Money is with the people making under 200K which is three times the amount of those making over 200K. If Obama was so concerned about the Middle class then he would have announced a longer tax extension for them for only a year.

            The Bush Tax benefited those making under 200K 70% better than those making over 200K a year. Sixty Five percent of Seniors in Retirement depend on Stock Dividends to supplement their Income and they are not all rolling in money. It is a Myth just like the so called Buffet Rule that Stock Dividends benefit only the Rich.

            So roll the dice and select your poison. Personally would like to see Obama reelected and the Economy trashed much sooner so we can rise from the ashes much sooner rather than 4 more years of pain.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles Moore…. So many wealthy people take advantage of the tax laws, it is what they do. Most of the rest of us would too to the extent we could. Many tax laws are made for the benefit and use of the wealthy because many of the politicians are wealthy and the too want to take advantage. Romney does but he is a pure ass for so many other reasons. His tax program doesn’t affect me so much so that is the least of why he shouldn’t be trusted. I also think he, by admission, broke Constitutional and some Federal laws and should be in jail for those along with his companions in those crimes and he insults other religions in doing so.

            I hope what Obama did with the Auto industry pays off because it would be a hurting thing if they fail now. So many would lose their jobs. Other than that you think Obama is going to bankrupt America in a few years. We will be hurting but what you feel is an Obama cause started many years earlier, even before the idiot GW Bush. I might be rougher than it is now but we will survive. I think, and hope, we learned a lot from the Great Depression.

          • Charles Moore

            You need to become informed in the Financial area. I have Satellite T.V I have to stay current as I have been investing for over 30 years and need to protect myself. I had to buy the full 250 channel package to get those channels. I don’t watch many of them. Since you mentioned the Auto Industry then we will hit on it.
            1. General Motors still owes the taxpayer 27 Billion dollars,
            2. In order for the taxpayer to break even General Motors would have to see for $53.00 a share on the remaining Stock still in the hands of the Government.
            3. The IPO last year in GM stock only went for $32.50
            4. General Motors stock closed yesterday at less than$20.00. In spite of the General Market being up over all since then, GM Stock is down almost 40%.
            5. The news was released yesterday that 93% of General Motors In House Loans are Sub Prime.
            6. General Motors is using an accounting method of reporting by dealerships to hide the above.

            General Motors is trying to look good before the Election. As for Romney stating that he would not pay any more tax then obligated by the Tax code the IRS makes this very Statement.

            As for trampling on the U.S. Constitution.
            1. U.S. Senator Obama who claims to have taught U.S. Constitutional Law for 10 years stated in 2008 that any President that didn’t consult Congress before engaging in hostilities with another Country unless the Security of the U.S. are its citizens was in imminent danger is guilty of violating the U.S. Constitution. POTUS Obama went into LIbya without consulting Congress and those conditions did not exist.
            2. Do a search on “Commerce”. Wikipedia has the most detailed definition, Oil rigs come under that definition. Only Congress has the power to regulate Commerce. Therefore the Oil Moratorium in the Gulf was Unconstitutional . Not only that but after causing the loss of several thousand jobs in that Industry Obama went to Brazil and Brazil was given 2 Billion dollars from the U.S. for offshore Oil drilling and told Brazil that the U.S. would be its best customer for it. Recent reports show that 58% of Brazil oil exports are to the .U.S.
            3. Last year POTUS Obama stated that he could not change Immigration without the permission of Congress as it would be Unconstitutional . A few months ago POTUS Obama implemented sections of the Dream Act which hasn’t passed Congress.

            These are just the most recent of the trampling on the U.S. Constitution of this President. It is even worse since he was supposed to have taught U.,S Constitutional ;Law. Of course, we don’t really know as he has sent several million dollars to have his records a sealed at all the Universities etc he has attended. I find this very suspicious since these records can only be accessed by the Student because of the Privacy Law. He obviously doesn’t want to take the chance of a leak.

            If things are bad now just wait until he is re-elected and can’t run for another term and has nothing to lose.
            1. The Jobs Czar for this Administration is the CEO of General Electric who has shipped half of its jobs overseas and paid no taxes last year. Talk about Hypocrisy.
            2. General Motors has also shipped Jobs overseas.
            3. The Jobs Czar is also the head of the Business Council.a two of the people on it are former Bain Capital executives.

            I have already gone into the details of the expiration of the 2% payroll tax and the Bush Tax cuts.

            You might want to read a recent book release titled “Bailout” by Neil Barosky.. He was the Special Inspector General tapped by the Bush Administration to oversee TARP. He talks about how it went wrong which is pretty much what I have been saying. He talks about the Roadblocks in the Bush Administration because of the incestious relation between the Government and the Financial Industry. He states among other things that while bad with the Bush Administration things are much worse with te Obama Administration.

            I don’t know where you are getting your information. All of mine can be easily checked. The Hypocrisy in this Administration is Rampant.

        • Jeff

          It may well be true (We don’t know) that Romney follows the law in paying his ultralow tax rate. It is also true that the law is the way it is (carried interest) because of the lobbying efforts of Bain and Reversible Von Mittens.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff.. .Yep, we should remember the laws are made by wealthy politicians for the sake of, well, they do protect and benefit themselves but at times they try to show they are helping us too.. Ain’t this kind of “representation” grand?

  • coal miner 1

    Laws are made for the rich,by the rich.

    • Charles Moore

      Nonsense. The Debt started to escalate in the 80s. It was 4.9 trillion when bush took office.Congress had to approve it. It increased to 9 trillion under 8 years of Bush and the last toe of that both Houses of Congress were controlled by the Democrats . Sp TARP and the Bailouts could not have been approved without them. Under the 3 1/2 years of Obama the Debt has increased another 6 trillion . So 4.1 trillion in 8 years under Bush and 6 trillion in less then half the time under Bush.

      It cost 800 Billion over ten years to keep the Bush tax cuts for those making over 200k year. It cost 2.2 trillion over ten years or almost 3 times as much to extend it for those making “UNDER” 200K a year. So the under 200K a year tax cuts add to the Debt almost 3 times as much. Do a search on “Bush tax cuts” or find a 5th grader to do it for you before making ignorant comments.

      • Jeff

        Hey Chuck, why don’t you invest in a dictionary or Thesaurus? Your use of the word “ignorant” to describe everyone who disagrees with you is beginning to make you look like a Crank. The fact is the laws are written to protect the rich, particularly tax laws. Why do you think it’s “legal” for Romney to pay a lower tax rate than a barber. Bain paid good money for the lobbyists who wrote those laws concerning “carried interest.”

        Now, his running mate, Ayn Rand Ryan, is proposing a “marvelous” budget that will cut Romney’s taxes down to less than 1%. Is that proposal for your benefit? Or for mine? It might as well be called the Keep Mittens Super Rich bill. Check out Ryan on February 14, 2002 addressing the House concerning the positive effects stimulus spending, unemployment benefits, health care, etc. Amazing what a change in the President’s party will do to deeply held philosophical principles.

        It should be painfully obvious by now, even to you, that the Republicans are interested only in damaging the economy so they can blame Obama. That is their only agenda. They want another round of tax cuts for their wealthy backers and to get them they need a Robot like Romney in the White House.

        • Charles Moore

          I said “Nonsense” Here are the facts
          1. Most of the income of Romney are Stock Dividends and Capital Gains. THE TAX CODE STATED THAT THE MAXIMUM TAX RATE FOR THEM IS 50%.,
          3. If you had a $100,000 income a year and it was all Stock Dividends and Capital Gains then your maximum tax obligation would be $15,000 or 15%.
          4. If you don’t understand this then you are indeed ignorant.
          5. All Loopholes should be eliminated.
          6. The largest tax subsidy is the Mortgage Deduction. it should be eliminated.
          7. If the Barber had saved all his money and invested in Stocks then…………….
          8. It is the Law.

          • Jeff

            These deductions will be eliminated about the same time you utter a civil word or make sense.

          • Charles Moore

            Same old ignorant comments from you. Your idol POTUS Obama ignored the recommendations of his own Debt commission to eliminate all Subsidies and loopholes including the Mortgage deduction. He could care less about the middle class. He is only ranting and raving about the over 200K a year people. These tax cuts bring in 800 Billion over 10 years or 80 Billion a year. This Administration is spending 9 billion day. This isn’t even 9 days worth. The tax cuts for those making under 200K cost 2.2 trillion over ten years or 220 Billion a year which is almost three times as much. Why do you think Obama only wants to extend it “ONLY” one year for those making under 200K a year? Get a 5th grader to do any Internet search for you on “Bush tax cuts” and find out which one cost the most. Meanwhile Obama has the idiots and the class envy idiots ignoring the facts. What is really Ironic is that it is Romney and Ryan that want to eliminate “ALL” loopholes. “ALL loopholes ” and lower all rates by 20%. Obama also neglects this and concentrates only on the rich getting a 20% tax break and sucks in the Idiots.

          • Jeff

            Charles, you ignorant slut!

            Those loopholes will never be closed. They were put there intentionally by well-paid lobbyists. It’s easy to talk about “closing loopholes” just like it’s easy to talk about “waste, fraud, and abuse.” It’s the details that get sketchy. And getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction, the only real “loophole” the middle class can take advantage of? Highly iunlikely. What would that do to the shaky real estate market?

            Do you actually have any friends or is this about it? I can’t believe you just go around insulting people all day. If someone spoke like you at a Starbuck’s, the Manager (she’s in 11th grade) would ask you to leave. You could have a boyscout walk you over there some time.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles…. I agree. The Capital Gains tax laws are for everyone who invests, from the “I can only afford 20$ a month to invest” to the Bill Gates’ of the world. But it will benefit us most the more we can afford to invest. I will not believe GW Bushy reduced the CG tax rate for any but himself and his very wealthy friends. The rest of us are just tag alongs and I enjoy what I can from it too.

          • Charles Moore

            I can’t answer that question for you. I can’t possibly know your financial status and even if this was the case your priorities etc.I started over 30 years ago by investing 10% of my income and then payin for my necessities . If nothing was left over then there were no luxuries. Even minor ones. I read the other day where 65 % of Seniors don’t have more then $10,000 in savings. Some can’t help it and most lived beyond their means., I have already gone into detail about taxes and GDP etc and a possible Fiscal Cliff.

            Here is another one for you,
            1. I read where nationally there are 1.2 million Fire fighters and police
            2. There are also 1,2 million tax preparers.
            3. So there are just as many tax preparers as Fireman and Policeman.

            I have also discussed the need for reform of the tax code. All Loopholes and Subsidies need to be eliminated. The Mortgage deduction is the biggest tax subsidy.,

            Ryan and Romney have a plan that eliminates all loopholes and subsidies and reduces the tax rate on everybody by 20%. This would be revenue neutral . The same amount of revenue but no loopholes, Nobody else has a plan for the tax code. .Then if you were in the 30% tax bracket then all your income would be taxed at 30%. Capital gains and dividends would then be taxed at 30% instead of the present maximum of 15% now etc.

            I don’t care. I can never vote for Obama because of all his Lies and Hypocrisy etc especially in Economics. I will be able to adjust for any scenario. I am Retired with no Debts. I have an income of $40,000 a year and pay no taxes because I have structured my income in such a way according to the tax code. I will continue to take the best advantage no matter the change. You need to do what is best for you,. Unless you ahve a job that is 100% Safe and Secure or you are Retired with a Safe and Secure Income then you could be in trouble. if you can’t weather the storm. It will make no difference then if you have a zero tax rate. Things aren’t going to be good enough to reverse the trend. Even the Best plan would not get us there until 2020,

          • macgyver1948

            Charles… I really wasn’t asking anything except perhaps in a rhetorical manner. My dad told me starting when I was young in order to control your future you better start planning it the sooner the better. Any time we do finally start is a good idea. He was a kind of “people do not plan to fail, they fail to plan” kind of guy and I guess that stuck with me.

            I do ok with my investments and my cousin is a very successful stock broker turned stock manager so he has helped a lot over the years. I still lose now and then but I learn and that is good enough.

            I feel, even though I take advantage of the Capital Gains tax rate, all income should be considered income and we each should be taxed strictly on the level of our earnings for all our income. That would be the best fair way and the greedy people in government would get what they need to run the country and maybe we could fix the budget and the debt. I am not a economic much of anything. I took only the courses I had to to get by in grad school but I feel these loop holes are killing us.

            We need to get level and fair with how we tax everyone. For example, a guy making $25,000 a year should have no more advantage with loopholes and deduction than Sam Walton’s kids and vice versa. It is now and has been based on what we can afford and what level of advise we can afford and how we choose to take advantage of it and that should change because government is so screwed up because of how the wealthy and Corporations have “suggested” the laws on these things and the laws being made by many who are wealthy for the wealthy.

            I do not give a damn about Romney because he doesn’t give a damn about me since I am not wealthy enough for him to care. Obama is not a lot better but he seems to be to some extent. Who knows really and I am reminded of a Jessie The Body Ventura quote that I have to paraphrase because I do not remember the exact words. “Politicians are like the WWE in that they do their things in front of the camera for the camera but behind the scenes they do the real together business as they are directed”. The quote as I put it here is a stretch but I think that was his point. Obama and Romney do the job as they see it for whom they see it. I do not trust either totally but I totally do not trust a corporate Koch-like puppet at all. “Corporations are people” is just one of the many examples Romney is telling us he is not on our side now with Ryan even more so.

            I too have no debts, not even on my credit cards. What a great feeling. :-))).

          • Charles Moore

            My Father told me to always pay cash for everything and if you couldn’t pay cash then you couldn’t afford it. If most everybody adhered to that then the Recession wouldn’t have started when it did . The Recessions started in both Japan and here when Consumer Debt was 130% of consumer disposable income.

            Sorry but your hope is a dream.
            1. The only candidate talking about eliminating tax loopholes are Romney and Ryan. They want to eliminate all loop holes and lower all tax rates. Obama ignores the rest and focuses only on the 20% for the over 200K and engages in class envy warfare by ranting and raving about the wealthy getting a 20% tax break.
            2/ It cost 80 Billion a year for those making over 200K a year.
            3. It cost 220 Billion a year for those making under 200K or almost 3 times as much to extend it for those making under 200K
            4. This Administration is spending 9 Billion a day. Increasing the taxes on those making over 200K and 80 Billion a year won’t even pay for 9 days.
            5. Eliminating both the under and over 200K will bring in 300 Billion a year. Why do you think that Obama only wants to extend the tax cuts for the under 200K for one year.?

            So if you expect all the deductions being eliminated it won’t be Obama. And even if Romney and Ryan are elected it depends on Congress and the Democrats have been against the Bush Tax cuts etc from the beginning. So you have no chance with Obama and some chance with Romney and Ryan for the deductions. Otherwise you are dreaming.

          • macgyver1948

            Charles…. You say “My Father told me to always pay cash for everything and if you couldn’t pay cash then you couldn’t afford it. If most everybody adhered to that then the Recession wouldn’t have started when it did”

            I remember the late 60s early 70s we were first hearing about a thing made of plastic, it fit in our wallets and you used it to “buy now and pay later”. Many people said it would never replace cash and then when it come around it because way to easy to buy what we couldn’t afford today and then… tomorrow. We, as a people did that to ourselves but the banks pushed so friendly like. Just like The Clinton admin asking the banks to help more people acquire mortgages and the banks worked on helping themselves all to often, thus the burst. We cannot trust banks but we need them for now. The founders didn’t trust banks either as they didn’t trust corporations in general.

            I worked for banks and I got to understand how they think and they aren’t stupid. I believe they planned consumer debt. I believe they want as many people indebted to them for as long as possible. Plastic is beyond gold to banks. I get asked by friends and others why their minimum payment for the month is lower than the combined fees all to often. I also believe the banks want their customers to pay only the minimum, payment each month regardless of what they say.

            Banks say they want to help us make payments, well, I am told they say that. I do not have plastic debt that lasts longer than a month of so. But I am told banks, of whatever kind, say they want to help but they seem not to want to do the one thing that can help many people. That is change their due date to one that is more in line with a customer’s payday. If a customer is behind in payments, even one, the changing of a due date could help from month to month. But if the bank changes that due date they lose the late fees. I may have told you this before.

            I wont argue with you about how each side deals with tax adjustments. I do not trust either Romney, for many reasons and Freedom Of Religion is just one along with his record of BAINing people, and Obama is less offensive to the majority of us but, there is that but about him.

            The Dems are against the Romney tax stuff because it is the same as the Bush stuff. It is politics and during an election year the circus is in town, every town.

            You said “And even if Romney and Ryan are elected…”. I really hope not also because they are hurting seniors and women and half of us are women and all of us will be seniors and retired some day. Romney just cannot see or feel us. Ryan is another TEA that TEA is loving with his record. I do not trust TEA at the top. Romney and Ryan are both Puppets to the max.

            LOL. I always dream of how I would like it to be :-).

          • Charles Moore

            I don’t know what you mean by “Baining” people?. Sounds like talking points and Democrat nonsense. I don’t know how you can “Trust”. the Obama Deputy campaign chief who claims she knows nothing about the false cancer ad and then an audio tape appears with her in a conference call with the very person and the Obama team refuses to disavow it. Both Clinton and Obama lied about not “gutting” Welfare. Clinton and a bipartisan Congress took it away from the States and put it under a Federal umbrella and passed Legislation that it “COULD NOT” return to State control unless Congress passed it. Obama didn’t technically change the work requirements but he Unconstitutionally returned it to State Control. Obama Unconstitutionally opened up Immigration and now 1.76 million illegal immigrants are eligible for work permits and wil compete with 23 million unemployed and Under employed Americans for jobs and will probably work cheaper. I told you that I do not care and will make my Economic moves based on these actions.If you want to vote for an Imperial; Presidency and help sell your Country down the road then go for it.

            The Recessions started in the U.S. and Japan when Consumer Debt was 130% of Consumer disposable income. There were 5.5 million Americans with at least $10,000 in Credit Card debt alone . If the sheep want to believe that Bush caused it and everything else they are spoon fed then they need to go for it and suffer the pain.

    • coal miner

      We don’t know.

      • Charles Moore

        Not true. There are over three Lobbyists for every Congressman for just the Financial Industry but there are 11 Lobbyists for each and every member of Congress for the Health Industry.Meanwhile the Voters have been re-electing 90% of the members of Congress for the last 20 years. The same Morons that re-elect them then give them a 12% performance rating after they re-elect them. Instead of the facts they just parrot the party line etc.

  • coal miner 1

    We are the people.


Sign Up For Personal Liberty Digest™!

PL Badge

Welcome to,
America's #1 Source for Libertarian News!

To join our group of freedom-loving individuals and to get alerts as well as late-breaking conservative news from Personal Liberty Digest™...

Privacy PolicyYou can opt out at any time. We protect your information like a mother hen. We will not sell or rent your email address to anyone for any reason.