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The Burning Question

April 7, 2011 by  

The Burning Question

Let’s all take a moment to welcome Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center. He’s back for his second 15 minutes of infamy. Now, let’s all wave goodbye to Pastor Terry Jones. Outside a bush-league Sam Elliott lookalike pageant, Jones doesn’t deserve another moment of our attention.

But his notoriety does. Jones is an aberration created in retort to the almost gleefully murderous tendencies of Islamofascism. He’s a religiously-twisted court jester. But the animals who kill and maim actual people (something neither Jones nor his flock have done) are a threat to a great deal more than just the scripture section of the Gainesville, Fla. library.

In an analysis of the violence supposedly touched off by Jones’ little campfire, the United Kingdom’s Daily Mail identified what they considered:

“…clear evidence that his actions have led to multiple murders and widespread violence in the Middle East… (Jones’s actions have) been directly responsible for a wave of violence that began last night and has left 30 people dead…”

What about the actual Islamofascists doing the actual killing? Are we that desperate to avoid upsetting savages who use 21st Century media and weapons to try and force the entire world back to the 14th Century on behalf of their funhouse-mirror image of a 6th Century historical figure? When do we tire of making excuses for the inexcusable?

If Islam works for you—as it does for more than 1 billion people worldwide—then have at it. I won’t be joining you for a number of reasons, including a serious devotion to bacon cheeseburgers. But I’m not going to cower under a dishdasha because you don’t like it. And you should learn to live with that. It’s not as if I’m pursuing romantic interludes with preteen girls, a predilection which Mohammed indulged.

Recently, backup bloviator Chuck Todd sat in for talking hairdo Chris “Tingle-boy” Matthews on Matthews’ unintentional comedy program on MSNBC. Todd allowed TIME Magazine reporter Aparisim “Bobby” Ghosh on the program to discuss Jones’s barbeque. If Ghosh’s name rings a bell, it might be because he’s the same sock puppet who helped fabricate the infamous story alleging a Marine Corps-perpetrated massacre in Haditha, Iraq. Outside the asylum which is liberal faux-journalism like the sort practiced at TIME and MSNBC, Ghosh is worthy of little more than: “How is this guy doing more than reporting ‘Sled Dog of the Week’ stories in Nome?”

But Todd brought Ghosh in to raise Jones’ cache to new heights:

“The thing to keep in mind that`s very important here is that the Koran to Muslims… it is not the same as the Bible to Christians. The Bible is a book written by men. It is acknowledged by Christians that it is written by men… But the Koran… if you`re a Muslim, the Koran… is transcribed, is directly the word of God. That makes it sacred in a way that it`s hard to understand if you`re not Muslim.”

Actually, there’s a great deal wrong with that statement, but given the total lack of credibility earned by Ghosh—well—let’s just move along.

Ghosh’s point, like the Daily Mail’s point, is that Jones is somehow responsible for the violent rampages of Islamofascists. While I would agree that Jones isn’t helping the situation, I disagree vehemently that his Koran-burning misadventures are the moral equivalent of “yelling ‘FIRE!’ in a crowded movie theatre,” or yelling “defenseless Israeli teenager” in a crowded Nablus mosque.

Jones isn’t yelling “FIRE,” he’s yelling “ARSONIST,” albeit in a supremely stupid manner. But those who focus on what Jones is doing are missing something more important: That Islamofascists don’t need anyone to point out the defenseless Israeli teenager in the Nablus mosque, nor the Dutch cartoonist who drew a parody image of Mohammed, nor the guy who was riding the elevator to the 81st floor of the World Trade Center on 9/11.

About a year ago, a New York group which calls itself “Revolution Muslim” threatened to murder South Park creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone should Comedy Central air an episode of the cartoon which purportedly depicted Mohammed. Comedy Central heavily edited the episode in response to the threats. If a group of Islamofascists had used the South Park episode as justification for murder, neither Parker nor Stone would have been responsible; just as Jones isn’t now.

In blaming clowns like Jones, we’re treating Islamofascists with kid gloves, while they treat us like victims. More importantly, we’re blaming the wrong people.

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • John Myers

    Great column Ben,
    I wish I had written it.
    Sincerely,
    John Myers

    • http://www.personalliberty.com Ben Crystal (There’s a lot of love in the room this morning)

      John:

      Bob says I can’t list all of your pieces about which I said the same thing. Something about “we need the bandwidth.”

      It occurs to me that while Islam has transcended to some sort of protected class all its own (See also: South Park, episodes 200/201), those who offer said protection are actually doing muslims a serious disservice.

      To those who would blame Islamofascists’ murderous rampages on Terry Jones (or whomever): at best, you’re assigning muslims a severe lack compunction. At worst, you’re treating them as if they’re mentally disturbed.

      If someone deliberately insults my religious beliefs, my response almost never includes beheading them – nor an unrelated 3rd party. “How dare Terry mock my Church? I’m so angry, I’m going to kill Fred!”

      • Jeryl

        Good point. Of course, I’ve never seen anyone try to claim that Islam was rational or reasonable.

        • independant thinker

          Execpt perhaps islamonazis

        • Kate8

          Jeryl – True, but as with anyone who indulges in irrational behavior (as the Islamofascists), pandering to them is only enabling them and encouraging them to keep it up.

          They’ve learned that their bullying works, so, of course, it continues to escalate.

          • DaveH

            So true.

      • Bruce D.

        Personally I have met a few Muslims and liked them all. They really were all very nice. Politically I always regret to generalize so I will say for many my belief is sitting “At worst, you’re(I,m) treating them as if they’re mentally disturbed.” I saw a documentary about the King of Jorden years back. I liked him. He was educated in the United States. That being said the Pastor is making a point that there is a Muslim problem in the world. It is unfortunate that people had to die to make that point. We should all realize that many Muslims do not need much of a reason to kill not only men, but woman and children also.

        • Kate8

          Bruce D. – While I’m sure that there are many Muslims who are friendly, and probably good people as well, we must not forget that befriending the enemy (until they are strong enough to overcome them) is part of their beliefs.

          We should learn a lesson from Europe, where they were welcomed, and now are becoming militant. And countries like Lebanon, which was predominantly Christian until they welcomed Muslims. When Islam had spread enough, they went on a murderous rampage through the country and slaughtered the Christians who welcomed them, for no other reason than that they were not Muslim.

          We are so naive and trusting in America. We don’t listen to what our enemies tell us upfront, and we don’t learn from the mistakes of others (or even from our own). Muslims tell us their intention is to conquer and rule, and we don’t believe them.

          Our PC is suicidal. Maybe it’s just me, but I think we’d better wise up fast.

          • Bruce D.

            Good point Kate8. I agree there is a Muslim problem. Whether that means a few, many, or most of them has yet to be determined.

          • Kate8

            Bruce D – It doesn’t really matter. A small percentage of them is enough to do the job.

          • granny mae

            Kate8,

            I agree with you. The so called nice Muslims that mean us no harm will do a 360 when the hateful muslems take hold of everything. Show me one that will stand up to all the so called radicals and I will show you a live christian in a muslim country ! There is no such animal. If there was there would not be any killing of Christians any where by any Muslim. Civilized people just don’t go out and kill someone because they are of a different faith. Civilized people don’t just stand by and let it happen. Let me ask you where else on earth do you ever see a full grown man stand in the street and fire a gun repeatedly up in the air for the fun of it? No where except in third world countries where they have very little common sense and not much education. They run around like hyped up little boys and laugh and randomly shot guns and shoot off their mouths all the while they are suppose to be fighting a civil war! Lots of good sense there ! They are fighting a civil war and ousting their leaders and have no idea of who to replace them with. They have no clue how to do the job of running a country but they are going to kill the guy in charge because that is what they are being told to do ! I wonder who is telling them to do such things? Muslim women have these beautiful babies and send them off to be suicide killers and for what reason? Just to kill people that don’t think the way they do! I consider them just another bunch of mindless bodies being led around by a muslim Jim Jones ! I have no use for any of them. They do not have the ability to think for themselves so they have to have a leader think for them in everything ! Just my opinion! God Bless.

          • Firefly

            I have read the Adolph Hitler’s book, MEIN KAMPF, has become a best seller from Turkey to Iran. That should tell you something about these people. It is the religous ones who are dangerous. The secular ones are no different than others. The danger is when a secular one like the Army Major goes religious and then falls in love with death. If we don’t wise up we will pay the price that Europe is paying now.

          • Kate8

            GrannyMae – The worst part is that our government has been gathering them up and flooding America with these third-worlders. Oh, and giving them our tax money to live better than they ever have, while our own people struggle to eek out a living. They’ve taken over our cities and communities (you should see CA. Our entire population increase is immigration. They outnumber us by a long shot).

            Our government has betrayed us. Of course, they get a lot of help from the liberal crowd, who just don’t get it.

            The three states they are after to Islamize are California, Michigan and Florida. That’s just a start.

            We are being set up by the world elite.

    • The Prophet-Messenger

      First The Old Testament Was Given To Moses By G-D’S Word Of Mouth Albeit Voice Of The LORD G-D But We Don’t Go Around Killing People Who May Wish To Burn Scripture Or The Bible. Until You Change The Words Creating Death To All Infidels And Non-Believers Of The Muslim Sect. There Will Be No Peace Between Brothers. They Also Have Placed The Burden On Us For Peace Rather Than Change The Words Themselves! Until They Accept This Burden Rather than Placing It Upon Everyone Else To Comply There Will Always Be Some Kind Of Mistrust Either Consciously Or Sub-Consciously Upon The All Peoples! Can’t Anyone See This Is happening Today And The Cause? Can’t Anyone See It Could All Be Eliminated By Changing These Few Words To Something Better Rather than Cower Away As well As Ignore It Every Time It Comes Up Or Deciding To Eliminate One Another Instead? If They Really Wish For Peace Between One Another Then They Would Personally Accept This Burden And Change The Words For All Brothers To Live In Peace With One Another!

  • CurtisS

    As usual… you’re absolutely correct. Well done Mr. Crystal.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    With Terry Jones I would certainly agree he is not responsible for the actions of extremists and terrorists. Their own hatred and insanity is responsible for their actions. However I feel I must point out there are many Muslims of Integrity and Intelligence who are deeply offended and insulted by his actions and rightly so I believe. Burning books while not enciting violence in honorable people stands as an insult to them and declares hypocrisy and intolerance to the world. There are many who however intelligent wrongly believe that Mr. Jones action is somehow indicative of an actual feeling in our country towards muslims. Unfortunatly it is hard to discredit such an argument when there seems to be such a feeling of animosity towards a group seen by the majority as different or unknown. I would like to say that just because I say this dose not mean I believe there are not muslims who commit horrible crimes much less that there are none who do so in the name of their religion. However to attack terrorists based on their religion is also to attack all good people of that religion and to question the very integrity and validity of their ideals and beliefs. Such an argument is both immoral and inpractical. Just as Mr. Jones strategy to burn the holy book of Islam caused uproar and disagreement even among non muslims rather than any sort of action against Islamic extremists so does assuming muslims are to be feared or questioned result only in anger and division rather than cooperative action. In the end I perhaps agree with the article. While Mr. Jones actions certainly dont fit the same criteria of terrorist attacks his actions are none the less something to be scorned and rejected for what they are and do. They humiliate muslim and non muslim alike by claiming muslims to be animals and non muslims to be animals willing to destroy a holy book in return. If we wish to stop or defeat the terrorist threats we must first reject the more extreme impulses of our anger and look to as Lincoln said to the better angels of our nature.

    • Michael J.

      Jeremy,
      Excuse me while I go puke.

      • http://WeThePeople Jean

        Michael: so sorry – but there is very long line at every bathroom in America doing the very same PUCK. Just let it fly. It is Cookie Tossing Time.

        • Jana

          Every Islamist has the potential to become extreme, and or violent, BECAUSE of their religion. If Islam requires it, if they are a good Islamist, they will do it or face not only physical penalties from their particular religious family, but in what they perceive to be their afterlife.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jana, Good point and a perfect example of Islam perception is an Honor killing, how many have occured here in America this year alone? ___It makes no difference wether we as Americans believe in what the Quaran’< spelling? says or not, Islamists do believ in it, and they kill for it!

        • Kate8

          Jeremy – So what if Muslims are offended?

          Why must we treat treat them as if they are a mindless hive of hornets who can’t help going on the rampage every time something upsets them? This would seem to be the ultimate condescention.

          Christians are openly mocked and offended continually. Bibles are burned, and even in America (not to mention the middle east) Christians are being arrested and hauled into court just for voicing their beliefs.

          If we would stop catering to Muslims sensibilities, and maybe force them to grow up and act like self-accountable adults instead of spoiled, irrational children utterly lacking in self-control, perhaps things would change. They need to learn that the blowback for their tantrums is worse than their phoney outrage, and that their murderous rampages will no longer be tolerated.

          They need to learn that they get what they dish out.

          • Kate8

            Of course, this isn’t going to happen because Islamofascism has been engineered as a tool for the NWO. What is happening is exactly what the elites planned to happen in order to bring utter chaos.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            The problem Kate is that they are not a mindless hive of hornets. There are good people who are muslim and are good in the name of Islam. As I said just becuase I say this does not mean I dont believe there are bad people who are muslim. What I am saying is muslims are not all bad or all good. They are human beings as much as non muslims. Capable of making individual choice of good and evil. Treating all muslims as terrorists is just as inpractical and pointless as treating all muslims as innocent. What I am saying is that if it is possible as shown by the many who speak out against terrorism for muslims to be kind and good in the name of Islam just as it is possible to be evil which is something all religions and beliefs can fall victim too than Islam alone is not at fault for the actions of extremists. This is about caring for innocent muslims and punishing guilty ones, but not to condemn all muslims simply for being muslim.

          • Eddie47d

            They will never get it Jeremy but thanks for trying. Ben knew he would stir up a hornet’s nest so what else would you expect. That is what he gets paid to do.

          • karolyn

            Eddie – AMEN!

          • Kate8

            Jeremy – As long as “good Muslims” behave in a civil manner and respect the rights of others, fine. I’m not saying to punish those who aren’t dangerous.

            However, I don’t think “being raised” a certain way is an excuse for trampling the rights of others, no should it get them off the hook for their actions. They should not be allowed to say or do things that are threatening anymore than anyone else.

            The ones who commit, or incite, violent acts should be punished in like manner. That seems to be the only language they understand, anyway.

            We’ve got to stop deferring to Muslims, while restraining Christians. They should have to obey our laws, or suffer the consequences. No more coddling.

          • JeffH

            Jeremy, 47D and Karolyn…now who doesn’t “get it”?

          • http://deleted Claire

            To those of you that think/feel that burning the Koran is not “nice.” What do you think of people that burn “Old Glory”? That honks me off a heck of a lot more than burning that Koran. Oh, I know, the Koran belongs to the Muslims/Islams and we should have compassion and whatever for them. How many times do you think they have burned the Bible in THEIR country? How many times do you think they have burned the U.S. Flag in THEIR country? And consider the Christians that live in THEIR country–look what happens to them!! The Muslims/Islams take them out of their homes in the middle of the night, tie one leg to a camel and tie the other leg to another camel and split their bodies apart! Try reading a few books on terrorism, it will open your eyes. Maybe.

          • Karolyn

            I was taught not to stoop to others’ levels.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Karolyn–I was taught the same thing. And I am not stooping to other others’ levels. I am simply pointing out a few facts concerning what muslims/islams do in their own country.
            BTW- I was not the one burning the Koran, I wouldn’t waste my time and effort in doing such. The Koran means absolutely nothing to me. However, Old Glory and the Bible DOES mean a lot to me.

          • Kate8

            karolyn – You seem to excuse Muslims for their barbarism as if they are wild animals. You don’t condemn a lion for killing its prey, because that is its nature.

            Muslims are (supposedly) human beings, and as such are able to discern right from wrong. It doesn’t take an education to know that taking another person’s life is wrong, except in self-defense.

            If they haven’t learned this, it’s time they do. We can’t excuse the taking of life, or any other cruel treatment, simply because that is what they believe. If they killed someone you loved, I’m sure you’d be less tolerant.

          • granny mae

            Boy a lot of you people out here can really get my blood boiling. Don’t bow to their level huh? Obama will do the bowing for you. You can sit on your sorry butt and make all these pie in the sky excuses for these people and my only hope is that one day you will personally be effected by their stupidity and your own. Like I said earlier. Show me a good muslim that is willing to stand up for anyone else other than another Muslim! Where is he where the Christians are concerned? Where is he where the Jew is concerned? Don’t kid yourself any one of them will turn on you in a heartbeat when it comes to the brotherhood ! If there were good Muslims they would stand up for the wrong being done to non-muslims every where ! That is not happening. Even the muslims in this country are against people in this country that especially are white. Black muslims display a hatred that I have never seen in any other human being on earth. And their religion encourages it ! If you think all you need to be concerned about is the muslim from the middle east you are mistaken. Their vile has taken over many a so called human being around this world ! I don’t see any of them anywhere wanting anything more than to kill everyone that does not become muslim. There is no uprising to condem the atrocities done by the so called radicles! Why not? Because they are all radicle in one way or another ! I have read so many books written by people that have escaped that religion and they all make me sick. What that belief puts their people through is disgusting. Ever heard about or read about female circumcision? It is the most barbaric and disgusting thing I have ever heard of ! Ever read about the muslims killing the muslims in the Sudan? Their reason is because they, the muslims that were killed, were too dark skinned ! Another bit of disgust for you. I tell the story of one of my supervisors, when I was working, that told us about his years in Saudi ! He had some very good friends from Saudi and they would get together for dinner quite often. One evening after dinner they all sat around talking about the Jews. My supervisor said to his friend ” we have been friends for several years now and I feel as though I would do most anything for you, do you feel that same way about me?” His friend said yes. The supervisor said well what if I was to tell you I was a Jew? His friend told him ” I would have to kill you”. Are you a jew? Now this was a nice so called muslim and yet he was ready to set aside all his ties to his friend if he was a jew! I asked my supervisor if he was just kidding with him and he said NO ! If I had told him I was a jew I would have never walked out of that house alive ! After that conversation, I spoke to several other people I worked with that had also worked in Saudi and they all said the very same thing. None of these people came home with a very good opinion of muslims. I was shocked, and then I began to take notice of the goings on of muslims around the world and here at home. I began to read books and of all things I accidently became the patient of a muslim doctor !!!! He had never come across a woman like me and he probably never will again, especially after my husband got through with him. I experienced first hand the the lack of respect the muslim men have for women ! I had read about it but I never dreamed I would experience it first hand ! They have absolutely no respect or concern for women ! This doctor had so much empathy and concern for men that he was greatly sought out by men. My husband had taken his father to him and he was such a caring and concerned doctor to dad that when I got sick and needed a doctor my husband took me to him. That lasted for two visits and almost another war. I thought my husband was going to rip this guy, limb from limb ! He was insulting and degrading to me and it was in front of my husband. Well the old guy was not impressed. You just don’t go around insulting the woman he loves. You better show him respect by showing respect to his wife! I found another doctor ! Later I happened across another woman that had the same experience as I did. Ladies these men do not deserve your compassion. Muslimism goes much deeper than you can imagine. It goes deep and goes back thousands of years, and it hasn’t changed over time. Why do you think there has been so many wars with the muslims, (moores) for thousands of years? They are an opressive people! I do not want to see them in charge of anything in this country and if they start doing what they do in England I’m all for cleaning house ! Most people have no idea what we are really dealing with and when you do find out it is going to be too late !
            Sorry folks but that is my feelings and my opinion. Read some books and you will get a good education. God Bless

          • Kate8

            GrannyMae – Okay, now tell us how you really feel.

            Seriously, you are absolutely right. And we should not have to put up with being treated like second-class citizens by foreigners in our own land.

            The mealy-mouthed, bleeding-heart liberals are always the cause of a nations demise. They just can’t face reality. They don’t read the books that tell the dark side of Islam. They read the ones (if they ever actually read) by the Imams and Cair.

            You tell ‘em, GrannyMae.

          • independant thinker

            granny mae, welcome back missed you the last couple of three weeks.

          • Richard

            Granny Mae, it comes down to good and evil. We don’t talk about that much any more like we don’t believe it exists, but it does, and evil often wins because many don’t even know there is an eternal war between the two. Lucifer imagined himself to be God and he was the most brilliant being God ever created. It is no wonder that Lucifer’s hated for God is visible in those who follow him. They have his spirit, just as those who have God’s spirit (Love) is obvious too. Jesus said God is Love, and how Muslim’s treat women is how Lucifer treats all, even those who serve him. How terrible for those who don’t know that the laws of the universe apply whether you believe them or not. Gravity is one, and the Law of Reciprocity is another (stated by Jesus as “As you sow, so shall you reap,” and “He who kills with a sword will be killed with a sword”). You don’t have to believe it. It just is. Those Muslims who kill innocents and rampage and rape and kill even infants must experience all that they do to others. That is a hell they create for themselves and it is true for everyone, not just Muslims. They have been greatly deceived who believe any god is going to reward such behavior. Even the one they worship will punish them because he is the god of hate and he hates all of God’s creation, not just the Jews. He hates Christians, and atheists and even himself. God has had to punish his chosen people from time to time but He always punishes those who hate the Jews because they are Jews. An example is Egypt, much in the news of late. Egypt was once a great nation but when they turned against God (the one and only God, creator of heaven and earth) and His people, then they were told they would never again be a great nation. Many nations have come and gone but Egypt remains after many thousands of years, but never again has it had even a reflection of the greatness it once had. The only way one can escape the tragedy of all this (or the justice) is to accept the forgiveness that God offers in the acceptance of what His Only Begotten Son achieved for us on the cross. As I think you know, when we ask Jesus to come into our life, and forgive our sins, and make us a new creation, we become just that, a new creation, someone whose destiny is forever changed for the better. Those who have the courage to do that are on a new path, a new road, they are as the Bible says, becoming a new creation. They have stepped out of the darkness and into the light. The stories of those who have done this are uncountable and a testimony to the power of the God who IS Love! And the most popular book in the world, the Bible, is still refuted by those who are following the path of evil. It said that men wrote the Bible but the code that runs through the Hebrew Bible and is discernible only by computer proves that one mind wrote it all. How is that possible? The answer is that the spirit of God is in His People, those who love Him and who are filled with His Spirit. That is what the amazing Bible Code is all about, and those who continually reject God and want to be their own gods and are headed for perdition, reject even that which indicates that we have entered that period in human history that is known as the “end times”. Some believe they will last only a generation, others that they will be stretched out and that mankind will suffer a great deal due to famine and disease and earthquakes and wars and rumors of wars. All I know is that before one dismisses all this and goes back to the sports page one had better look into it and consider praying to the God who loves you and who accepts you and only wants to save you from yourself. You cannot be worthy of if or earn it. Salvation is a free gift and it has set even Muslims free but it must be accepted. Read the four gospels and the short book of ACTS in the Bible just past them if you want to see what Jesus really said and what ‘being a Christian’ is really all about. Discover for yourself the God who is Love and you will never be the same, nor want to return to what you were. You will be able to say “God is Great!” but unlike many who say it, you will know what it means.

          • Mik

            I will believe there are truly good Muslims when they publicly and often stand up and condemn the actions of their terroristic, vengeful, and murderous brethren and actually take action to put those people in prison. I have seen none of that. The Muslim world tolerates and encourages the violence brought about by their religion even if they themselves are not an active participant. That makes them guilty by association. Not until they actively try to and do stop the violence brought on by those of their faith will Muslims be seen as a religion of peace because they are not.

            Also – The Bible is considered the word of God! For one, Jesus’ words are in there, along with the commandments and his covenants. These were written in the same way, inscribed by man, but the knowledge given to them by God. And when we went to Desert storm 1 the solders had their Bibles burned. Christians didn’t then go on a murdering spree and kill Muslims for it. Muslims are terrorist or the enablers of terrorist. If they don’t want that label than its time they DO the TH RIGHT THING, and STAND UP AGAINST THOSE WHO COMMIT VIOLENCE!

        • Dan az

          Jeramy
          All who beleive in the koran must follow it perbatuan or lose their heads.
          I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers.

          Quran 8:12, “The Spoils,” Dawood, p. 177

          Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love the aggressors.

          Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage.

          Quran 2:190-2:191, “The Cow,” Dawood, p. 28

          When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.

          Quran 9:5; “Repentance,” Dawood, p. 186

          Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.

          Quran 9:73, “Repentance,” Dawood, p. 198

          Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous.

          Quran 9:123, “Repentance,” Dawood, p. 206

          • granny mae

            Dan az,

            I see you have been reading up on things. Eye opening isn’t it? I too have the Quaran and have read it. People it is not like reading the bible ! God Bless .

          • Kate8

            Dan az and GrannyMae – It’s all-too apparent that Islam has no understanding of Spirit or Infinite Love. They are filled with hate and self-aggrandizement. Those are not traits of our Lord, but of the adversary.

            Those connected to Spirit become filled with Love and compassion, never force. How anyone can defend this religion is beyond me. I am certain that Islam is the army of the Beast.

          • Dan az

            Kate and Granny
            It explains clearly why they have nothing but war for their brothers for the past 2000 yrs!

          • Jana

            Exactly, and now they want to bring that war over here to us. We have to say NO.

          • Dan az

            Jana
            Its already here.With the open borders they just had a way to get what they need brought in and are now just waiting for the signal.Hope you dont live in the city!

      • Carlucci

        Me too.

      • lkar

        In fairness to Jeremy, the PC crap is OK until the muslims demand he bow to Allah and Mohammad (with the alternative being death to infidels). Then he will be thinking WTF! Then he will realize that fools argue over foolish premises (Islam is a religion of tolerance, love, and peace). Meanwhile, armed citizens will protect themselves and his arss.

        • DaveH

          Not me. They can have him.

        • Jeremy Leochner

          I would like to point out Ikar all I said was not all muslims are terrorists. That isnt politically correct its correct correct. I only speak of tolerance and peace because thats what muslims who dont commit extremism and terrorism say of Islam. I hold religions to the standards of what its most genuine and honorable members proclaim it to be.

          • independant thinker

            While they perhaps are technicaly not terrorist they give approval to the terrorist and his terroristic acts by their silence. If they were truely as peaceful as they claim they would condem the terrorist in the strongest terms. Some will say but they are afraid of reprisals from the terrorist if they speak out I say BULL SH!T supposedly 90% of the muslims are not extreemist so they far outnumber the extreemist terrorist and could defeat them by their numbers, by being outspoken, and by turning in all who promote the terroristic viewpoint.

          • DaveH

            Oh, and you know which ones those are, Jeremy. You’re being just a wee bit naive. Actions speak louder than words.

          • Dan az

            Jeremy
            what love they spread.
            Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron.

            Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: “Taste the torment of the Conflagration!”

            Quran 22:19-20, “The Pilgrimage,” Dawood, p. 333

            Muhammad is God’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another.

            Quran 48:29, “Victory,” Dawood, p. 514

            Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise.

            Quran 4:56, “Women,” Dawood, p. 86

            Those that make war against God and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain and crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land.

            Quran 5:33, “The Table,” Dawood, p. 112

            When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.

            Quran 47:4, “Muhammad,” Dawood, p. 506

          • Dan az

            Jeremy
            My point to you is ALL muslims most obey the koran.
            Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrong-doers.

            Quran 5:51, “The Table,” Dawood, p. 116

          • Kate8

            Dan az – Having a belief that promotes the torture and torment of others is unconscienable, and I don’t see how anyone can call them good.

            Wait. Liberals do the same thing. Okay, then. Nuff said.

    • Isaac Davis

      So, a bunch of muzzlems standing on a New York stret, igniting the American Flag, then stomping on it is entirely acceptable to you, but us returning the favor to show them that we aren’t going to be subjugated to their trashing of OUR way of life on OUR soil is somehow inconsiderate? Give me a stinking break. The days of standing idly by while we are taunted without an equal response are fast disappearing. You do know that the word “islam” MEANS submission, don’t you? Don’t forget to send in your jizya tax payment–be a good dhimmi.

      • American Taxpayer

        You forgot to mention that Terry Jones did not saw off the head of a Muslim reporter who covered the Koran burning or the good Muslims who arrest Christians for handing out Bibles. Shall we go on & on? Muslims are given a pass as we allow them to be the poor victims. Hogwash!

        • Carlucci

          I think Reverend Jones should start a pig farm.

        • Carlucci
          • Kate8

            Carlucci – OMG! Well done! Bravo!!! Home run!!!

            Watching your video, I’m out of my chair and cheering this guy! Finally, a voice of reason and common sense!! If only we had some people like that here!

            Don’t expect to see anything like this in our boot-licking media.

            A guest on the radio the other night said that we should NEVER listen to ANYTHING we hear in the American media, as they are nothing but pure elitist propagandists. He said that we should listen to FOREIGN media, as certain European outlets. From what I’ve been able learn from the European press, I’m thinking he’s right. There is SO MUCH we never get to hear about. Good grief, we’ve become the Soviets.

            BTW, did you hear that Glenn Beck was LET GO by FoxNews? It seems that O and the PTB don’t want him influencing the 2012 elections.

          • DaveH

            Wow. That was powerful, Carlucci. Good for him.

          • DaveH

            Rumor has it that the advertising boycotts against Glenn did him in. But I did my part to thwart that. I even quit using State Farm Insurance after they withdrew their ads, and I told them so. We need to start showing the Propagandists that the boycott weapon is a double-edged sword.

          • Dr. Mabuse

            Great video…
            The German was so on point, it was elegant.
            A dose of reality is always refreshing.
            Lets not forget the genocide of the Armenian people by the Turks at the beginning of the last century. Where was the compassion of Islam then?
            Clash of Civilizations appears inevitable. Some would suggest it would be prudent to assume a pre emptive posture.

          • Carlucci

            Yes, please pass that Austrian MP video on to your email list. I know lots of people have seen it already, but it doesn’t hurt to see it more than once to reinforce the message of what we are up against.

            The first time I saw it, I was wondering what the same speech would sound like in English. In German, it really rocks, and kicks butt.

          • Eddie47d

            We can’t be offended by the truth but he did sound like another well known German leader.

          • Kate8

            eddie – That is utterly ridiculous, but not surprising coming from a fascist like yourself.

            By your own admission, the man spoke the TRUTH. How does that in any way resemble Hitler?

            Oh, wait. Progressives abhor the truth. It gets in the way of their plans.

          • Void1972

            Carlucci,
            How do we get this guy to run for Office in America?

          • JeffH

            Carlucci, very good.

            As for Glenn Beck, no he wasn’t let go…he’s moving into another frontier in his life and will continue to work with FOX through his company. Glenn wasn’t forced out, it was his choice, not his advertisers, affiliates or anyone else. Of course, the media and the liberal left will play it up because that is what they do best…lie, speculate and deceive.

          • Kate8

            JeffH – At first it was said to be his choice, but today it came out that he was asked to leave. Apparently he’s too much of a threat to Obama’s election.

            I read it in Newsmax. I’m sure you can find it. I’d post it but I already deleted it.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Regarding Glenn Beck– This is what was in my newspaper this morning:

            BECK’S SHOW DROPPED BY FOX

            Fox News Channel said on Wednesday it was dropping Glenn Beck’s afternoon talk show, which has sunk in ratings and suffered financially due to an advertiser boycott. The show will end this year. More than 400 Fox advertisers told the company they did not want their commercials on Beck’s show. Viewers also began turning away. Some of Beck’s statements were getting him in trouble, and critics appealed to advertisers to boycott his show last summer after Beck said President Obama had a deep-seated hatred for white people.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Kate & Jeff, then there is this too about Beck,(I tried to find a vid for it, but haven’t found it yet)__Judge Napolotano on late night last night, interviewed Beck and asked him, I Quote, “So is there going to be a Bigger and a Better Beck?__Beck Replied “That All I can say Is the viewers are gonna wish for the 5 to 6 time slot back again,__All I can say is Look Out!”__Time will tell it seems.

          • http://deleted Claire

            DaveH– I would never have State Farm or Allstate-ever. On March 13, 2006 when we were hit by a tornado, our Pekin insurance agent was there immediately. He surveyed the damage, came back the next day after we got estimates and gave us a check. This check covered a new roof and drainpipes, a new picture window, the rest of the windows, my 6 foot cedar fencing for the dog yard, the removal of the big tree that was struck down, food that was in the fridge, and freezer. Most of the people on my block had State Farm and Allstate. They had a heck of a time getting money out of them. Some of my neighbors needed an entire new roof, and these insurance companies only wanted to pay half, they didn’t think an entire new roof was needed. Needless to say, Allstate and State Farm lost customers.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Carlucci, Wow!__A Man with Testicular Fortitude!!!__HUZZAH!

          • JeffH

            Kate8, this is straight from Beck:

            Glenn’s first radio response after big announcement
            Thursday, Apr 7, 2011
            On Today’s Program

            FOX News and Mercury Radio Arts announce new agreement. Mercury Radio Arts is Glenn Beck’s fully integrated multi-media production company.
            FOX News and Mercury Radio Arts, Glenn Beck’s production company, are proud to announce that they will work together to develop and produce a variety of television projects for air on the FOX News Channel (FNC) as well as content for other platforms including FOX News’ digital properties. Glenn intends to transition off of his daily program, the third highest rated in all of cable news, later this year.

            Roger Ailes, Chairman and CEO of FOX News said, “Glenn Beck is a powerful communicator, a creative entrepreneur and a true success by anybody’s standards. I look forward to continuing to work with him.”

            Glenn Beck said, “I truly believe that America owes a lot to Roger Ailes and FOX News. I cannot repay Roger for the lessons I’ve learned and will continue to learn from him and I look forward to starting this new phase of our partnership.”
            http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/04/06/fox-news-and-mercury-radio-arts-announce-new-agreement/

          • Kate8

            JeffH – I heard his explanation. Sounds very much like when an official or politician leaves his post to “spend more time with the family”.

            So, who are we supposed to believe? He’s not going to say that FoxNews dropped him at this point. He still has to work with them.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        No it is not Isaac. Neither is responding by showing the very same intolerance you accuse muslims of committing. Not all muslims felt happiness from tragedy. Many were hurt alike with non muslims. For the sake of argument why do muslims who do obey the law and dont commit violence say Islam isnt about violence and subjugation. While yes it is submission that is only for muslims which I and I assume you are not. All members of all religions submit to their religous customs and gods. But not those who are not members. That is what muslims of kindness and honor preach and that is what I choose to listen too.

        • Jana

          Jeremy,
          You have been duped. You have fallen for their propaganda. Your eyes have been closed to the truth.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Jana not all muslims are terrorists is the truth. If even one muslim isnt a terrorist or preaches kindness or tolerance than we cant judge muslims based solely on their being muslim.

          • JeffH

            Jeremy, that’s a pinhole arguement. Irrelevant in the big picture of world events. The Middle Eastern mainstream—diplomats, intellectuals, and journalists—has also bombarded the American public with an array of unflattering images and texts, suggesting that the extremists’ anti-Americanism may not be an eccentricity of the ignorant but rather a representative slice of the views of millions.

            Americans, reluctant to answer back their Middle Eastern critics for fear of charges of “Islamophobia” or “Arab smearing,” have let such accusations go largely unchecked.

            Few in the Middle East have a clue about the nature, origins, or history of democracy, a word that has no history in the Arab vocabulary. Democracy’s lifeblood is secularism and religious tolerance, coupled with free speech and economic liberty.

            Like third-world Marxists of the 1960s, who put blame for their own self-inflicted misery upon corporations, colonialism, and racism—anything other than the absence of real markets and a free society—the Islamic intelligentsia recognizes the Muslim world’s inferiority towards the West, but it then seeks to fault others for its own self-created fiasco.
            http://stuffucanuse.com/bombing_commentry/muslims_hate_the_west.htm

        • granny mae

          Jeremy Leochner,

          Time to put your money where your mouth is and show me the good muslims! Show me, I want to see them, I want to hear from them and how they has stood up for right and compasion for the Christians in their countries and the Jew ! Just one little bit of compassion and I will agree with you but that isn’t going to happen because it does not exist, only in your mind. It would be nice to know there were good muslims, but it unfortunately would be our demise for sure ! It does not exist !

          • Jeremy Leochner

            If you ask every muslim in the world if there is any good in them or if you ask every muslim in the world if they believe in tolerance and peace, unless every person answers no than Islam is not to blame. I have countless muslim friends who dont preach violence and who actuall condemn it universally. Look on any major news network and you will find muslims speaking out against violence. Find anyone in your community who is muslim and ask them if they believe in peace or violence. Ask and find before making a judgement of all muslims.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jeremy,
            your muslim “friends” tell you to your FACE that they are peace loving and tolerant. Let them get into a position of power and THEN see what they say! The koran tells them tolie to avoid discovery. Even if you are right and only the majority of them are fanatics, I don’t want to find out which are which AFTER the fact!!! You’re a long time DEAD!!!

        • Lewis Munn

          Have you actually read the Qur’an? What does it say a Muslim MUST do?

          Our Book tells us how we will know Christians, since they will follow the Book and love one-another. I have read much of the Qur’an, and see what a Muslim MUST do to be a good Muslim. It is in there, many times!

          Never found anywhere a Muslim is to really love a person of another faith; but they are to pretend and then slay suddenly, or they will lose their souls. To contrast, Christians are to show their faith in true love for those around them, not to pretend and then slay.

          Too many Americans do not know what EITHER faith says, they may well regret it sooner than they think! And I do find it interesting that our government has no objections if a town goes over the Sharia Law, religious laws, but would have kittens and maybe grown cats if a city decided to run by explicitly Christian laws! Any ideas why this is?

    • wandamurline

      The Muslims may be intelligent, but Pleeeeeeeze, you are stupid if you think for one minute that if they were told by the rest of the Muslims to behead you, you would be dead. Islam is not a religion, Islam is a fundamentally radical cult. We saw Clinton and Janet Reno kill children and innocent people in Waco because they had a few guns and would not allow them into their compound, yet we try to make excuses for the Muslims…there are compounds of Muslims in this country right now exercising military scenarios and have lots of guns, yet we seem to dismiss them. This is sheer hypocricy. Where is the Muslim outrage over these killings? I have yet to hear one speak out against the violence. They are told by their so-called Bible to lie to you and be nice, until they have a chance to destroy the infidel…and brother, that is you. This country had better wake up to the terror that is living next to you in neighborhoods across America…we will be fighting them right here in America.

      • http://MSN.com Alice

        Islamic fundamentalism establishes its thesis on the differences between the sexes and the conclusion that the male is superior, and hence, the female is a slave at his service. A parliamentarian in Iran is on record as saying, “Women must accept the reality of men dominating them, and the world must recognize the fact that men are superior.” Muslim fundamentalists do not believe women are human.

        Muslim Fundamentalism: “Conceives of woman as sinister and satanic; she is the embodiment of sin and seduction. She must not step beyond her house, her presence in society breed sin. She must stay at home, serving her husband’s carnal desires; if she fails to comply, she is compelling her man to commit sin outside the home.” They say that women are “immature” and need “guardians.” Muslims believe the inferiority and subservience of women, encouraging more violence against them.

        • Kate8

          Alice – They are surely a disgusting lot. They need to be put back in their cages until they can learn to behave like human beings.

          We’ve got to stop making excuses for them. Tolerance is NOT always a good thing, regardless of what Progressives spout.

          • spitfire

            Tolerance is for Woosies and cowards. Not to mention is is not working very well.

          • DaveH

            Tolerance is a good thing. But don’t let the Liberals fool you. They are one of the most intolerant types of people in this country. They give lip service to a lot of ideals which they exempt themselves from.

          • Kate8

            DaveH – There are some things which should NEVER be tolerated. Things like murder, violence, oppression…no matter who does them.

            If an ideology operates in this manner, then I don’t believe they should be tolerated.

            This goes for the current political crop as well.

          • 45caliber

            Kate

            I agree.

          • granny mae

            Wandamurline and Alice, Have it right ! They have a good hand on this disgusting ideology and way of life. People I’m telling you save your compassion for someone that really deserves it ! Instead of spouting off tolerance and compassion go buy a few books and read them. Check out the books written by some of the reporters that were embeded in with the people of Afghanistan during their war with the Russians and find out what they have to say about what they learned. It is easy for you people to sit here and spout all this compassion and you have never come to know first hand anything about the people you offer your compassion to! What fools you could be !
            Get educated ! God Bless !

        • Lewis Munn

          Yes, remember the man is allowed up to 4 wives and one prostitute also. And he can beat his wives into submission with a rod as thick as his thumb!

          A wood rod as thick as my thumb could easily kill another person!

          I am amazed that Women’s Rights groups are not speaking out against Islaam! But maybe they all secretly want to have a man beat them into abject submission!

          • libertytrain

            Lewis it is beyond my understanding that the Women’s Movement seems to give this behavior some sort of tacit approval. I don’t get it.

    • DaveH

      Lincoln says. Sure, as he was ordering the slaughtering of several hundred thousand Americans who no longer wanted to be a part of the unholy Union. Imagine if husbands were allowed to kill their wives because the wives no longer wanted to be a part of that marriage.
      Where are those “muslims of integrity” when their compatriots are committing their atrocities? And where are those “muslims of integrity” when their muslim dominated countries are stifling other citizens Freedom of Religion?

      • Kate8

        DaveH – Did you watch Carlucci’s video?

        I’m still cheering this guy.

      • spitfire

        Killing their daughters and wives In America somewhat recently.

        • granny mae

          spitfire,

          Isn’t that a good one? That is shariea law for you and they are trying to get it here in this country right now. People we have a constitution and we have our laws so stand up for them or you will surely loose them. Tell these people that want to live under shariea law to go back where they came from and live under it there. They have no right to come here and try to change this country to what they want. That goes for anyone coming here with that idea !
          God Bless

          • granny mae

            If the muslims get shareia law here then when and if they commit a crime against you they can insist on being tried by shaiea law and if their law says it is ok they can go free . They can legally commit murder and get away with it especially if it is acording to or in line with the Quaran ! I say go home and fast ! God Bless

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Dave with all due respect I would like to point out Lincoln niether ordered nor condoned the violence of the Civil War. He would never allow slaughterinf of people and at the end he did not blame the south but slavery and gods punishment of America for slavery for the war happening. That is a far cry from a violent animal commiting an atorcity and proclaiming his action to be in the name of god. Lincoln called war gods punishment, terrorist call war their duty to god.

        • DaveH

          Jeremy,
          Spare me. The president is the Commander-in-Chief. If he didn’t order it, who the heck do you think did?
          Pick this book up from the Library and learn some reality:
          http://mises.org/store/Real-Lincoln-The-P172.aspx

        • DaveH

          Here’s one, Jeremy, that you don’t have to go to the library for:
          http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=312

        • Carlucci

          Jeremy, how old are you? It sounds like you believe the drivel you were fed in high school about Abraham Lincoln.

          The truth is, he did not like blacks and wanted them all moved to the Dominican Republic. He insulted Frederick Douglas by refusing to meet with him. When Lincoln realized that he could use the slavery thing to his advantage, then he decided to declare it was wrong and a sin.

        • Jeremy Leochner

          Dave the president did not order the Confederates to fire on Fort Sumter or to fight to seperate the country into two. He responded to try and save the country and keep it together. And bear in mind Lincoln himself constantly admitted to disgust at the blood shed and loses, but felt he and the country had no choice but to endure it for the sack of Unity.
          Carlucci: I have always loved history and make a note to listen to more than just my high school history book. Lincoln always felt slavery was wrong and wanted to destroy it. He supported only stopping its expansion and the idea of colonization only out of a desperate desire to mantain harmony and to try to give everyone what he thought they wanted. Also please bear in mind that Lincoln changed and gradually came to see African Americans including Fredrick Douglas as dear friends and at the end of his life pushed through the Thirteenth Amendment to destroy slavery forever and advocated the vote for African Americans as well. He was not the Great Emancipator but he did become the Great Emancipator.

          • DaveH

            You know, Jeremy, naivete is one thing. But to purposely ignore the facts is just plain ignorant. Read the article. Better yet, read the whole book. Don’t just swelter in your ignorance.

          • DaveH

            For people who would like to be enlightened:
            http://www.daveblackonline.com/why_the_south_fired_on_sumter.htm

          • DaveH

            So, I guess if the terrorists said that they were “disgusted by the blood shed and loses” as they cut off their victims’ heads, people like Jeremy would give them a full pass. Unbelievable.

          • DaveH
          • Jeremy Leochner

            With all due respect No Dave I wouldn’t. Abraham Lincoln ordered soldiers into battle against other soldiers to fight and die in combat in uniform where soldiers got killed. Terrorists indiscriminantly kill anyone they please wether or not they are innocent and then they show no remorse and make no consideration of their actions. If they did and then stopped committing their actions perhaps they could be granted some measure of redemption but only if they seek to pay for the damage they caused. Thats a far cry from a President in a time of war where the countries very exsistance was threatened ordering soldiers to fight other soldiers out of neccesity rather than want.

          • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

            Jeremy Leo-tard, Read up on Good Old Abe’s Indian fighting days in good old Illinois, and while your at it Look up his Presidential Indian Removal Act just about the same times as his Emancipation Proclamation. Andrew Jackson’s Removal Act was no better, Ever read the Trail of Tears or Abe’s Trail of Tears.

      • DaveH

        Why would teachers instill in their students such strong admiration for such a despicable man? The answer is simple. To ease the resistance to an ever growing central Government, so the Leaders can build their power and perks unfettered by public opinion.
        “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” — Adolf Hitler

        • granny mae

          Amen !

    • Cassie

      Jeremy: My question to you is where were those “muslims of integrity and deep intelligence” when our military burned Bibles sent to Afghanistan in May 2009? http://www.newser.com/story/59546/us-army-burned-bibles-in-afghanistan.html The US Military burned them so the Afghani’s would not feel we were trying to convert them from Islam. Did they become offended because of someone else’s book of religious belief was destroyed? You are standing up on behalf of their book being destroyed so you are acting as an agent on their behalf. Did any of those you know act as an agent on your behalf in May 2009? Just wondering.

      Did the Bible believers around the world go beserk and start killing, maiming, or threatening the remainder of the world? Did the world media report on such an atrocity? NO and NO. The United States has become so indoctrinated with the idea of “tolerance” to avoid offending someone that we have volutarily submitted our own culture to destruction.

      THIS IS AMERICA!! We have a culture that we AMERICANS have held dear for hundreds of years. Our husbands, fathers, sons, and now our daughters have fought for this culture and freedom.

      For one, I’m not backing down from an ideology, religious or political in nature, that seeks to destroy this country that I love. I will fight here if need be to defend her. I believe there will be many fighting by my side. WE are the land of the Free and the BRAVE.

      Those who chose to act out in such atrocious acts only reveal what lies deeper in their hearts and character. Have you, Jeremy, read in the Koran/Quran that Mohammend via Allan says to destroy all infidels? Infidels according to them are ALL NON MUSLIMS!! Do the Muslim people that you know consider you an infidel? Have you asked them? Have you asked them if they support and condone the killing of infidels? You need to ask these questions. Is this the type of individual you want to deal with? One that acts first and thinks (maybe) later?

      If left unchecked, these are the people that will rule this country. Do you want to be beheaded for “alledged” crimes against Islam? Who is the deciding, governing body—–the same people committing these atrocities will be judge and jury. So much for due process.

      • Denise A.

        Right on ! I think you might be interested in the info at this web site:

        http://www.actforamerica.org

      • spitfire

        You have one in the WhiteHouse that calls himself president. I do not accept him as that.

      • granny mae

        Cassie,

        Right on, you said it all. God Bless

    • Meteorlady

      Excuse me but……….. it’s OK to burn bibles which Christian revere, but not OK to burn the Koran. It’s OK to come to my country and DEMAND your laws be kept instead of ours. It’s OK to stop traffic illegally in the streets to pray. It’s OK to build a mosque by ground zero even though we reacted negatively. They have the option to build anywhere else but didn’t respect the victims or the American people enough to do that.

      NAME ONE SINGLE muslim leader that has come out and apologized for 9/11. Name one SINGLE muslim leader that has asked for the violence and beheading to stop. Name one single muslim leader that believes that muslims can co-exist with Christians.

      Fact is I’m visiting Seattle right now to see my mother. All I see in certain areas are Somali muslims and other foreigners living in government housing and buying their food with food stamps. All I seem is them not assimilating into our society, but instead taking everything they can get from us as taxpayers. The crime rates in their areas are high, their children are uneducated and can’t speak English and they are generally trashing the areas they live in.

      I’ll wait….

      • spitfire

        We also have them in Wisconsin, and it is the same situation there.Our government is really looking out for us aren’t they. They even brought in at least 225,000 Iraqi’s. Muslims are our enemies and our government continues to bring them to our country.

      • Dr. Mabuse

        The reason that we have the Somalis, Russian Jews, Asiatics, Slavics and other assorted riff raff flooding communities across America is because our State Dept. brings them over here (I know this sounds crazy) but its the truth. Whats even more pernicious is that they subsidize them after they get here. This situation, compounded with the influx of latinos is a tool to Balkanize the country. None of these groups have a grasp of what American culture is… nor do they care to learn. In my humble opinion, the Republic (freedom and democracy, ad nauseum) is no more. In point of fact we live in a Fascist nation. So break out the jack boots and lets kick ALL the intelopers out. Then we can turn our attention to the so called “patriots.” (Whether they be left or right wingers).

        • granny mae

          Lets Go ! God Bless

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Doc,
          Here in the Cleveland area, we have a long history of Slavs. All of them here, as far as I know are of a Christian type faith. They, as far as all the ones I have met and know, are very polite and speak very good English! Be careful who you group with the muzzies!!

      • granny mae

        Meteorlady,

        I’m thinking it all has to do with this NWO and No boundries or borders. That is the big reason why they are not policeing the boarder like they should. It all plays in together some how and I’m sure we will find out how one day soon ! God Bless

    • maurice

      An intelligent person that is guided by a moral code that respect people of different faith couldn’t possibly be a muslim.

    • karolyn

      Thanks, Jeremy. Your comments are always so well thought out. It’s too bad that many people here do not even read and comprehend what you try to say.

      • Kate8

        karolyn – Surprise, surprise. You, defending Muslims.

        It appears to me that you do not comprehend what others are saying.

        YOU are just another part of the problem.

        • JeffH

          Kate8, when all one wants to believe and see are unicorns, rainbows and vast open lilly fields it makes it to have a grasp on reality.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          kate8,
          karolyn has already convinced me that she is of the thought that if she ignores the problem it will go away and no harm will come to her!!
          She is the one that will see someone blown away or stabbed to death and hide behind a bush whispering it isn’t real, it can’t hurt me, it isn’t there, it can’t harm me, there is nothing wrong, I can’t be harmed. She will repeat this mantra till she is either killed as well, or the perp misses her and walks on!!!

      • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

        Hey karolyn, I ain’t going to be nice anymore, so why don’t you take your Mulim loving black arse and get the hell out of this country and go back to a Muslim African state. May I suggest Kenya!

    • Jeffrey

      Very good point Anne.The whole thing in a nutshell is Muslim have no respect for the bible or Christianity, (try taking a bible into one of their countries) You and your bible might not make it out. As Christians we recognize that the bible is the inspired word of God but if you look for him there you won’t find him, it tells you how to find Him. It is not in our nature to kill people who abuse the bible. Extreme Muslims on the other hand are looking for any excuses to kill anyone who doesn’t believe the way they do, and if it wasn’t burning their bible then it might be the length of your dress, laughing near a mosque or telling someone Jesus loves them. All of those will get you killed over there. What the pastor did wasn’t too smart, but they would of found another excuse to kill. It’s in their nature and their bible.

      • Lewis Munn

        And as long as they are killing and maiming each other over what a guy over here did, it may be that many fewer attacking us.

    • http://windstream Jo Anne

      I don’t understand how people of “intelligence” and honor can choose to follow a religion of hate and blood. The Muslum’s are commanded to lie to infidels. (That is anyone not Muslem) They are commanded to “kill the infadel” “utterly distroy them”. I can go on but to publish the Koran would (fill a book)
      When people have tried to get out of this anxient cult they are killed. There are so few converts from this so called religion that it is apparent how peaceful these people are. To kill people because they don’t like their cartoon, or their books, or the way they wear their hair, or their manner of dress or behavior is barbaric. The political correct bunch can buy this garbage if they want to. I don’t buy it. I see these peaceful people killing without right or reason all over the world. Not stopping the killing. Joining it. Jones might be an extremist for his dumb behavior. But that behavior isn’t the reason behind the death’s of people at the hands of Islamic extremist.

    • Void1972

      Jeremy,
      you are a perfect example of how you can educate a moron, but in the end all you get is an educated moron!

    • Bus

      Let me puke up this bit of bile: If the peace loving Muslims don’t condemn there radical brothers then aren’t they as much to blame as Rev. Jones. Also if Jones is to blame for the murders then they are in fact nothing more than animals. But of course no one is responsible for anything they do in our society.

    • Bruce D.

      Jeremy I always enjoy reading your post as I feel they are well thought out and sincere. I would like to select your quote “They humiliate Muslim and non Muslim alike by claiming Muslims to be animals…” and say their actions speak for themselves. Those that are animal like or worst have no problem showing that side of themselves to the world.

      • Kate8

        Bruce D – Don’t Muslims refer to others as pigs, dogs and monkeys?

        • Carlucci

          Yes, they hate dogs (except attack dogs – imagine that). They are terrified of pigs, and I don’t know about the monkeys.

          • http://deleted Claire

            I wonder if they like snakes. Anacondas maybe? Pit vipers? King cobras? Western Diamondback? Coral snakes? Hopefully? These kind of snakes should appeal to them.

          • Kate8

            I know they hate real animals, but they also call certain groups of people dogs, monkeys and pigs.

            I think they refer to Jews as monkeys. Or dogs. I can’t remember.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Jeremy,
      Had the preacher been destroying the koran in an attempt to keep people from reading it like they did with Catcher in the Rye I would have to agree with you. but since that was not his intention, I have to wholeheartedly DISagree with you!! He was doing this burning in an attempt, however misguided, to protest the habits of the muslims in forcing people to become believers or die!!

    • John Weiss

      Tripe,balderdash,and horse pucky

  • Harold Olsen

    Like Jeremiah Wright, Jones is a preacher of hate. I would not want to be a member of his congregation.

    • Willy

      The bible says to expose false teachers/teachings, that’s exactly what Jones did rather questionably.

      • smithington

        AMEN!

    • karolyn

      I saw him interviewed on Monday; and apparently, according to him, he has lost most of his congregation. He doesn’t care though. However, he did say this was a one-time thing. He’s got more up his sleeve, though to keep him in the public eye.

      • Bruce D.

        Is it any wonder he has lost most of his congregation? He has put all their lives at risk, including his own.

        • Kate8

          Bruce D. – Yes, better that we all sit down, shut up, and accept our coming dimmitude.

  • karolyn

    “The thing to keep in mind that`s very important here is that the Koran to Muslims… it is not the same as the Bible to Christians. The Bible is a book written by men. It is acknowledged by Christians that it is written by men… But the Koran… if you`re a Muslim, the Koran… is transcribed, is directly the word of God. That makes it sacred in a way that it`s hard to understand if you`re not Muslim.”

    Actually, contrary to what Ben says, this statement is quite true, although it isn’t mentioned that the Bible is the INSPIRED word of God. Mohammed could not read or write, so he received these words directly from God and recited them to transcribers. Thus, Muslims have no doubt that the Koran is absolutely infallible. The words in the Bible are stories transcribed by individual writers.

    I certainly don’t excuse extremists, but if we were raised the way they were, we would be doing the same things. Also, not all Muslims behave the same way.

    • pdh42

      If not all Muslims agreed with what the rest of them are doing then please explain why they never say anything against what the rest are doing???? Is it because they really do agree with them???? After all the Koran DOES teach to kill, steal, lie and destroy all others….

      • karolyn

        That is NOT the basic teaching of the Koran. Of course, the more moderates are afraid of the extremists. Wouldn’t you be? They are nuts!

        • JC

          Karolyn, your statements about the Bible are manifestly false! There are literally hundreds of texts throughout the Bible that attest to its divine inspiration and origin! Mohamed on the other hand has no witness to his alleged receiving and God never does anything in the dark or shrouded in secrecy so, the Scripture says, that it is only by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.

          2Tim 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
          2 Pet 1:20-21 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

          • Deanna

            Thank you, JC!

          • JC

            For the record, we have two JC’s posting here. This JC is the one who has been posting here for about a year and is a Libertarian.
            The post above is not mine.

          • JC

            PS, you’ll spot the difference right away, I do believe in God, but I do not subscribe to organized religion.
            The JC above is obviously a religious fellow.

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            It IS the basic teaching of the Qu’ran as well as the Hadiths.

          • granny mae

            Thank You JC. You have my respect ! God Bless

          • Dan az

            JC and JC
            Could we have a JC1 and a JC2 for less confusion?I like to read both of your post but have know clue who I’m replying to.PLEASE!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Bob Livingston??? Please try to stop this problem???? Thanks in advance!

        • Michael J.

          karolyn,
          “The thing to keep in mind that`s very important here is that the Koran to Muslims… it is not the same as the Bible to Christians. The Bible is a book written by men. It is acknowledged by Christians that it is written by men… But the Koran… if you`re a Muslim, the Koran… is transcribed, is directly the word of God. That makes it sacred in a way that it`s hard to understand if you`re not Muslim.”

          Doesn’t this statement show insensitivity towards Christianity at the same instant that they are claiming insensitivity towards the Koran?

          In other words, the Koran is the real deal, but the Bible is just fiction?

          To top it off, Christians would not kill you for burning a Bible whether they regard it’s contents being the direct word of God or his desciples.

          • Denise A.

            True ,Christians believe the Bible was written by men But Christians do believe those men were inspired by God so the words are God’s words and not man’s words.

          • karolyn

            I’m not saying they’re right.

        • DaveH

          Karolyn,
          Are you Muslim? It sure seems so with your defense of their Koran. Both the Bible and the Koran were written by men. Period. That is a fact. And men lie. That is also a fact.
          But at least the New Testament counsels tolerance and respect for our fellow human beings, even those who don’t believe. Unlike the Koran.

          • libertytrain

            You said it, both books were written down by men. Word of God or not, men wrote the words.

          • crystal

            Dave,

            Karolyn’s probably never even opened either book. One thing about hardcore liberals is that they love the talking points because they repeat them soooooo much.

          • Jana

            In all fairness to karolyn, she was quoting the paragraph from the original piece. See above in gray.
            However, the Qu’ran and the Hadiths do teach that it is honorable to lie to the infidels in order for them to get you to believe whatever is said.
            It also teaches that infidels must die.

            Yes, the Bible was written by man through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as(JC quoted:2Tim 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.)

            God works through man, and that is and was His intentions to do so.

          • DaveH

            Jana,
            Karolyn said (her words) “Mohammed could not read or write, so he received these words directly from God and recited them to transcribers. Thus, Muslims have no doubt that the Koran is absolutely infallible.”

          • karolyn

            crystal – I only post when I know what I’m writing about. Why don’t you take that cue before writing about someone else?

          • DaveH

            Then you have read the Koran, Karolyn?

          • Jana

            DaveH,
            I stand corrected.

          • karolyn

            Dave I haven’t read the whole thing, but part of it and also some writings about it online.

          • karolyn

            Dave, I’m just relaying information. You surely know by now that I am neither a Christian, nor a Muslim. I believe in a totally different concept of God. I think the Bible is a great book, and I know that the Koran has some good stuff in it too. I am not a judge of either them or their followers.

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            I have studied the Qu’ran. I can honestly tell you you don’t know what you are talking about.
            So, your statement to: crystal – I only post when I know what I’m writing about. Why don’t you take that cue before writing about someone else?- – - is false.

          • Dan az

            Karolyn
            If there is any thing in the koran that is good for all people then this should explain it to you.
            Sharia Law practically means: stoning of women for “honor” offences including for the “crime” of having been raped; beheadings for apostasy or blasphemy hand/foot amputations for “lesser” offences; public hanging of homosexuals and outspoken women; incessant war against infidels and especially Jews; black slavery; female sexual slavery; FGM [female genital mutiliation]; no democracy; no human rights; everyone down on their knees; Mullahs as Gods; non-Muslims as dhimmis; no music except for drums (ask “Cat Stevens”); no dancing; public floggings for “sexual crimes” such as flirting or speaking with an unrelated person of the opposite sex; all women under the veil; prison rape-brothels run by the Mullahs; and so forth. It is perhaps the most cruel and violent system of human life and social organization which has so far been invented, and it came to the world from those populations once only living in the desert “dead heart of Arabia”, but now lording over gigantic sums of oil-wealth, and spreading their vile doctrines all around the world.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Time for a “Martin Luther”to come forth out of Islam and begin a reformation.

          • Lewis Munn

            His head would be cut off soon as he opened his mouth! No chance of a reformation. The top guys love their lifestyle…much like ours do.

        • Meteorlady

          Sorry Karo, can’t buy what you’re selling. The bible is a book that is very sacred to Christians. I’m not a member of any organized religion, but a religious book, no matter whether is actual written history or what, is sacred to the people that believe in it.

          If you really sit down a read the HISTORY of the muslim religion you will find that it started as a “join us or die” for of religion. It was violent and war like. They traded in human beings (slave trade which still goes on today) because they believed that those that did not believe as they did were worthless and were either killed of sold into slavery.

          thanks, but no thanks… this is a cult and it’s a violent one at that.

          • Jana

            Meteorlady,
            You are so right, its a cult and an evil one at that.

        • Kate8

          karolyn – Mohammad was a madman. The words of the Koran came to him during fits of epilepsy.

          Sounds more like demonic inspiration, to me.

          Nothing coming from the God I know would inspire people to such beliefs and behavior.

          God is about LOVE, not hate. The fact that Islam preaches hate is enough evidence for me of where it originates.

          • 45caliber

            I agree with you full-heartedly.

        • pdh42

          karolyn, I do believe that you have NEVER read the Koran…. If you would ever actually read it you might find out that what everyone calls radicals are just people who are doing what the Koran teaches…. It does teach to lie If it is to protect yourself where a real God’s Word says that to lie is a sin…. It does teach to kill ALL who do not believe and to kill all who don’t believe in the prophet….. Muslims says that they believe that Jesus Christ was real but that He was not the Son of God but only a prophet…. Problem with that is that if He is a prophet then they should not believe Him as He said that He was the Son of God and that His Father sent Him…. So if He isn’t the Son of God then He was a liar and liars can not be prophets…. Of course their whole religion is based upon a lie, so I guess they don’t know any better……

          • karolyn

            I have only read the beginning of the Koran. There are only so many hours in the day and so much to learn!

          • Kate8

            karolyn – Then the truth is, you are making statements defending something you really know nothing about.

            Seems you do that quite often.

          • Julie

            pdh42, I am sure you are correct that karolyn has not read the Koran, as there is the version for believers, that only true Muslims are allowed to own, and of course the “bookstore” version for all others, including ones like karolyn who questions what the Koran states. (which is more than likely the same one that was burned, meaning it was not truly the “word of their Allah” but a copy used to fool nonbelievers. This would also mean that it was not protested as being the “true” word, but merely an excuse to riot and act their true nature, willing to kill all outsiders. Also, karolyn admits that she has only read the beginning, which means she has no knowledge of what is truly being stated in the book as later chapters nullify the earlier ones, so to truly understand the Koran, you must read the last chapters first and understand they are the only ones expected to be followed. The final section is the only one that matters in current time, similar to the New Testament being the books more religions adhere to today.

          • http://deleted Claire

            I certainly will not waste my time reading the Koran, Quran, Queeran, whatever you want to call it. I have read all I want to know about this “book” from editing manuscripts on terrorism.

          • Jana

            Claire,
            I am sure there is a lot you could tell us. Scary stuff at that.
            The only reason I got involved with studying it, is I got into a group of people that was studying and learning some really scary stuff. So I thought I should find out for myself. WOW were my eyes opened.
            I am no longer studying it, as I have had my fill of the evil it portrays.
            I prefer to study God’s Word, not a false religion about a false god.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Jana– The manuscripts I edit on terrorism are scary as hell. And this is exactly why I will never condone the muslim/islam beliefs. The authors are educated, reputable people, with years of experience in the field of terrorism. The evilness is astounding. The publisher I work for publishes nothing but textbooks, and they are well-known for their textbooks on law enforcement, youth gangs, medicolegal investigation of deaths, forensics, terrorism, criminal justice, guns and tasers books, you name it. These are my favorites to edit. Colleges and universities from all over the world purchase these books for classes.

          • Thamera

            That sounds like a very interesting job Claire, fun too. maybe?

          • http://deleted Claire

            Thamera: Yes I enjoy my work. We also publish education, spec ed, psychiatry, psychology, speech, language & hearing, visual impairment, gerontology, radiology, social work, and others. I prefer criminal justice and law enforcement. I bet when and if you read my posts, you could not tell I edit!! lol Here at home I am “myself, say what I want, write what I want. And yes, I make typos. But at work it is different. I have to be on the ball. Literally. It is nice to relax when I get home.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            karolyn,
            Then why above do you state ” I only post on what I know about”???? If you have read only the beginning, then you KNOW absolutely nothing!!!

      • smithington

        AMEN and AMEN!

      • Carlucci

        The “moderate” muslims don’t say anything to the extremists because they are too afraid of them. Remember when a fatwa was issued on Salman Rushdie for writing the Satanic Verses?

        And then you have the ones that are just stupid cowards. They want to blame non-muslims for negative comments and reactions regarding their “religion of peace”. I’ve heard them call into Christian radio shows to condemn what is being said about muslim extremism, but when they are confronted and asked why they don’t call and talk to their own religious leaders about the problems their brethren cause, they act like they are clueless.

        • Michael J.

          Carlucci,
          The ones you refer to as “stupid cowards” are instead just silent jihadist.

          They enjoy endulging in the freedoms of the west while anxiously awaiting the return of the 12th Imam.

          • Carlucci

            Good point.

          • Jana

            The 12th Imam is called Mahdi, and everything he will stand for is what we call the anti Christ. They believe they are bringing him in by their actions, and the sooner the better.
            The anti Christ is coming all right, but in God’s timing, not theirs.

        • karolyn

          Carlucci – Look around you. We have the same kind of people here whether they be christian, Jew or whatever. Most people will never open their mouths when it counts.

          • Carlucci

            Well…there’s always the “ultimate authority”.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Karolyn,
            There’s where you are wrong in your thoughts. Myself and many othere would speak out in an instant if some impudent ignoramus started bastardizing our religeon as the so called extremists are. If a group of Jews started going around and said that it was fine for Jews to eat pork at all times, they would speak out in unison! I spoke out against Jim Jones when he poisoned all those people in the mane of God, as many others did. There was a great outcry against him. When the Catholic priests were molesting kids, there was a great outcry against them. when Koresh decided that him and his people would die and didn’t let the children escape, and said he was a prophet of God, a lot of people raged at both the government AND him! Yet, the moderate muslims that say this is not the teachings of their religeon sit and say NOTHING!! Even when their own are killed and murdered!!

          • Jana

            Joe H,
            I agree. A lot of us haven’t been silent, and will continue to be vocal. All it takes is a few to stand and lead, we see that all of the time when the different ones go out and protest. At first it is peaceful, then the agitaters come in and they become violent.
            The difference has been we don’t become violent. The TEA party hasn’t been violent even though many lies and exagerations have been spouted, but none stick.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jana,
            you said it!! 100% righT!!!

      • 45caliber

        pdh42:

        Actually, I believe they are literally terrified of them – the response the terrorists want to achieve. They have lived with terrorists in rule for dozens of generations – and all know that if you speak out against them, you are next to die.

        That is NOT what I want America to become, though. Most of us, at least, are willing to stand up for what we believe. And we’re almost the only country of the world that will.

        • Meteorlady

          The more of them we import here, the more they will take advantage of their numbers. Look to France and Germany. Even Austrians are angry. Their mode of operation is to wait until their numbers increase, then start with the demands and the take overs. We are seeing that in NYC and Detroit right now.

          When they move into a community, they take over the neighborhood. There is a lady in NYC that has a small business in the middle of them. She has been bombed, raped, assaulted and not ONE SINGLE MUSLIM LEADER has condemned any of these actions. First she is an infidel and second a woman which makes her less than human in their eyes.

          So how long will she stay there? Until she’s dead is what she says, but that can’t be far off given the attacks that have already happened. so when they move into your neighborhood, watch and wait but be able to defend yourselves because they are not to be trusted.

          • Kate8

            Meteorlady – Brigette Gabriel’s book, ‘Because they Hate’, shows a perfect example of what happens when you tolerate Islam’s spread in a nation. She grew up in Lebananon, as the Muslims were being welcomed by the “tolerant” Christians, only to have the Muslims slaughter the Christians when they gained sufficient numbers.

            She spent 7 years in the bombed out basement of their house, destroyed by Muslim invaders, eating grass and unable to go out because of snipers.

            She wrote this book so we Americans would understand the Muslim agenda. She lives in America now, and is warning us.

    • Jeryl

      You are absolutely wrong about the Bible. Christ Himself confirmed the inspiration of the Scriptures. The Apostle Paul also claimed absolute inspiration for the Scriptures, saying: “All Scripture is inspired (theopneustos – God breathed) for the Holy Scriptures. Christians should never burn the “holy” books of another religion, but they do hold that there is only one totally inspired book – The Bible. The Koran, since it significantly differs from the Bible, is not considered “inspired” to any degree. But, Christians should always be kind and accepting of others.

      • 45caliber

        True. Further, the Bible does not counterdict itself over and over. The Koran does. In fact there are a lot of passages that state one thing in one place and then another in a second place. The Bible doesn’t.

        Further, it is my believe that any god should be able to determine what is right and wrong without constantly changing his mind. If Mohammed was quoting Allah as they believe, then Allah was certainly wishy-washy about what was right and wrong.

        Actually, I believe the first part of the Koran was written when Mohammed was younger and more liberal. Later in life, when the rest of it was written, he was more cinacal and filled more with hate for those he had been slaughtering. So he changed his mind.

        Therefore I do not believe that the Koran was quoted directly by Allah. I believe it was Mohammed’s personal beliefs.

    • RAY

      THE KORAN WAS NOT WRITTEN BY GOD AS IF IT WAS IT WOULD NOT COMMAND ITS READERS TO MURDER NON BELIEVERS. EVIDENTLY YOU HAVENT READ IT. WELL I HAVE AND THE PEDIPHILE THAT GETS CREDIT FOR IT WAS A CHILD RAPIST HOMOSEXUAL BASTARD AND NOT A FOLLOWER OF GOD OR ANYONE EVEN CLOSE TO GODS TEACHING’S.
      SO GO AHEAD WITH YOUR SERMON AND SHOW THE WORLD THAT YOU NEED TO BE INTERNED IN SPECIAL WARD TO TREAT YOUR ILLNESS.

      • Jana

        RAY,
        Amen!

    • Jen

      Actually, that is incorrect. I am a Christian and it is stated that the Bible is the living word of God. The Old Testament was written by prophets who wrote the word of God who spoke through them, just the same as Mohammed proclaims. The difference is, the prophecies of the Old Testament came true in the New Testament. Only, prophecies of violence came true from Mohammed. The New Testament is a series of books written by men -eye witnesses or sons of eye witnesses to the events surrounding Jesus. Several books were written by the disciples of Jesus and reports their actual interactions with the Son of God. Believe what you will. Most “Christians” and many non-Christians believe nonsense that they heard from someone they thought was credible, however, actually completely incorrect. Just look up any question you have about the Bible IN the Bible, and the record will be set straight. When doing so, read the context of the situation as well and it will make perfect sense. There are many websites such as BibleTopics.com that will help you find your answers, as well as, any concordance book based on a topic. The notion that the books were plagiarized, or made up or were written 2000 years ago and therefore, are no longer applicable is nonsense. The New Testament was written within 25 years of Jesus, and some of it – the letters of Paul (Paul was a disciple of Jesus and was actually, physically there when everything went down)- was written as soon as he was jailed and that was shortly after the death of Christ. Muhammed was a self proclaimed prophet, who reported the supposed word of God in a disorganized manner, out of order, with amendments that allowed him to have his indulgences, lies to motivate those into battle and it was all written down some 300-400 years after his death. The Bible reports of a perfect God without sins, NO lies, no indulgences, no amendments or exceptions, and perfect in every way with an order to his message, prophecies in the Old Testament that were true and realized in the New Testament,…..Which seems more credible to you? The Bible preaches sacrifices in the Old Testament, yes – but is THEN undone by Christ himself who was the ultimate sacrifice. He came to teach us to abolish slavery worldwide, practice love to others, and to live by the 10 Commandments, to take personal accountability for your own behavior and to treat those who disagree with you as “captives” and not to judge and kill them. The descriptions of the 12th Imam in Islam is the same description of the Christian’s “antiChrist”. The continued ongoing violence, murder and death, the horrific enslavery and treatment of women in the Muslim world is evidence of a sick and twisted culture. Those who study the Koran can read for themselves that they are ordered to kill the “infadel” as their duty of devotion to their “Allah”. To be a muslim and even though not actively involved in any actual violence, but to support it by being a believer that it is right because Mohammed said so, is evidence of the sickness of the entire culture. Remember when the Islamic extremists bombed an elementary school in Beslan, Russia and killed 330 something CHILDREN? Did you not hear about that? I bet not. The left won’t report the truth. Look it up. What muslim spoke out against THAT?? What God would encourage such things? Not the God of the Bible! Can you imagine if a Christian or Jew did that? Good Lord! People – let’s make this simple. The times of today are about good vs. evil. Which side are you on?

      • Isaac Davis

        OUTSTANDING! BRAVO!

      • Jeryl

        Well said!

      • ValDM

        Jen,
        I like what you said. If you would like a very useful tool for Bible studies go to : http://www.esword.com We use it and it has made a world of difference in our understanding.

        • Carlucci

          I also highly recommend the Life Application Study Bible. It has helped me tremendously to understand the Bible and Christianity.

      • 45caliber

        I agree also.

      • Meteorlady

        I’m waiting with bated breath for Karo’s reply….. well done.

      • Jana

        Jen,
        THANK YOU for saying what needed to be said. You are absolutely correct in what you wrote.

      • karolyn

        The point is what people believe, fear and revere is what shapes their lives. It’s the same with anything. Both sides believe they’re right.

        • Kate8

          karolyn – It’s one thing to believe you are right, and it’s another thing to think you have to kill everyone who disagrees with you.

          I a person is raised in a family of murderers and thieves, does that make it okay that he is a murderer and a thief, because that is how he was raised?

          What’s the difference?

          If Muslims cannot accept other belief systems, then they need to stay in their own countries where, at least, they all believe in killing each other for anything and everything.

          Yes, America was founded to grant freedom of religion, but only insofar as it doesn’t intrude on the rights of others. Muslims are, by nature and by creed, intrusive and controlling.

          • karolyn

            I’m not disagreeing with you, Kate.

        • Patricia

          For once, I agree with you! For the Muslim men (they’re the only ones who matter in this religion), arrogance, immorality, and a murderous hatred of anyone who does not glorify them and their false god is indeed what shapes them. It is in their scriptures. The Christian, for the most part, is shaped by Christ’s example of love, gentleness, humility, peace, and self-sacrifice. His example and our instructions to emulate Him are written in our scriptures. That is the only logical explanation for why we don’t respond in kind to their atrocities. We are told to “leave room for the wrath of God” (Romans 12:19) He will avenge every wrong done to His people.

          • Jana

            You are so right. Just recently a Muslim man, the 42 year old uncle of a fourteen year old girl, raped this fourteen year old girl in her own home. She was punished for the rape. She was stoned to death. This represents their perverted sense of justice.

        • 45caliber

          karolyn:

          Both sides do believe they are right … but one side doesn’t believe they should automatically kill everyone who disagrees as the other side does.

      • Patricia

        I have never heard the truth stated so succinctly or eloquently. America needs to hear this loud and clear. Don’t stop telling this truth. I’ll keep you in my prayers!

      • karolyn

        The incidence in Russia was all over the news.

    • wandamurline

      All Muslims want world domination…Wake Up. They are not your friend, and as a Christian, I must say that the Christians believe that the Bible is the word of God…just as the Muslims believe that their Quoran is the world of their God. The difference of the writing is that the Quoran was written by only one man during his lifetime…and if you read it, you will find that early in the Quoran it was a message of peace…but, I guess this guy had some bad days, because in the ending chapters of the Quoran, he becomes what I would call a mentally disturbed person…he begins to call for the murder of the non-believers and states that if anything in the final chapters contrast with the beginning, then the ending chapters are to be his message. Personally, I think Mohamad was a pedophile and if he had taken a 9 year old child and had sex with her, he would have been jailed for rape. The taking of young girls in the middle east is common, but then, the women are nothing more than cattle … the Muslim world is a man’s world from start to finish. The women are being used and abused with no rights whatsoever.

    • homeboy

      maybe i am reading a different bible than you. where do you think the writers of the bible got their words from, cracker jacks. they were told what to write by GOD and by the way he does have a name just like you . its JEHOVAHA. IT’S IN THE BIBLE OVER 7000 TIMES YET NO ONE USES IT . why do you think that is ? psalms 83;18 reads that people may know that you, whose name is jehovaha , you alone are the most high over all the earth. websters dictionarysays to inspire means to influence,move, or guide by devineor supernatural inspiration. to communicateto an agent supernaturally, to spreadby indirect means. if you dictate a letter to your secretary , she types it up and you read it and sign it who wrote the letter you or your secratery? thats what god has done. yet people prove false to his teachings.

    • smithington

      FYI Karolyn, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16) and “For prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:21) The Koran is a False book, by a False prophet (Mohamad the pedophile) and a False religion with a False “god”. The God of the Bible is NOT the “god” if Islam!

    • DaveH

      God told me that Mohammed made that up.

      • Carlucci

        LOL – !!

      • Meteorlady

        ROTFLOL…. thanks Dave.

    • crystal

      WRONG!!! The Bible is transcribed by God. You could also say that the Qur’an was written by Muhammad. Guess what? Muhammad was a man. Get the picture?

      • Meteorlady

        the bible is a written history of what happened during those times. The Apostles and other wrote it themselves, though I do believe it’s probably a fairly accurate account. I wonder though why when the bible was produced and translated there were accounts left out. Enoch is one and it was a pretty important body of written history. why was it not included? Why were some of the other books or accounts not included?

        • Jana

          Meteorlady,
          Enoch and other books are included in the Apocrypha and a lot of us do read and study them. I do agree that some were left out of the Bible that probably shouldn’t have been, but they are still available for study. The translators were trying to make sure that the Bible could prove itself.
          God in His great wisdom did not allow them to be lost. Some I see why they were not included however, I wasn’t there at the time. :)

        • karolyn

          Because The Church did not want them included.

          • 45caliber

            Not the Church. The people who were selected to determine what went into the Bible and what were reserved (like Enoch) were trying to determine to the best of their ability what was definately real, what might be real, and what wasn’t real. Those that ALL determined were real were included. Those they weren’t sure about were reserved. Those that they knew were wrong were thrown away. I seriously doubt that anyone today could do any better.

          • karolyn

            45 – I have read the the Gnostic gospels were thrown out because they gave the people too much leeway. I believe Nicea chose what to include in the Bible so as to get the most control over the people that they could.

          • Kate8

            45 – There were some 400 years wherein the followers of Yeshua continued to observe the Jewish practices, as Yeshua, himself, did. They were Jews who believed He was the Messiah.

            The Council of Constantine, where “Christianity” was established as a religion, was a church/state collaboration between Emperor Constantine and the papacy. Many changes were made in established precepts, such as changing the Sabbath to Sunday (the pagan day of worship to Apollo), changing the Lord’s Feasts (they were not Jewish feasts but Feasts established by God for all time), and adding a great deal of new doctrine.

            When we look at how far Christianity has strayed from the teachings of Yeshua, it should give one pause. When asked what one sould do to save himself, Yeshua answered, “Follow Me”. Yet, that is not what is being done today, and has not been since Constantine.

          • Jana

            The Bible was translated in the 1700′s, ordered by king James of England, thus the Bible is the King James edition.

          • James

            Jana, The King James Authorized Version of the Bible was published in 1611. King James organized a 47-man Commission of Christian leaders who only re-translated a few keywords. The bulk of it was just copied from previous bibles.

        • Kate8

          Jana – Yes, that is when the KingJames version was translated, but there were many other versions before that.

          It was at the council of Constantine that it was decided what books would be included. For centuries only the Church could read the Bible, not the people. I’m not sure of the date when the first translation was made for the masses, but the Bible was around for all that time.

          The Bible clearly states that it is the word of God. Nothing is to be added and nothing taken away. Yet the church added a great deal that is nowhere in Scripture.

          While the church decries the Gnostic gospels, I found them to be fascinating. More spirit-oriented and revealing.

          • James

            Kate8, the KJAV was published in 1611, see my above comment. I agree that what is being preached today barely resembles what the Bible says. For example Jesus said (to Disciples only, Mt.7:6): “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.” No Church pactices that, or even attempts to explain it.

          • Lewis Munn

            Kate and the rest,

            There is a very good translation from very old Aramaic texts, called the Lamsa Bible, published at one time at least by Holman.

            It went past the Aramaic to Latin, to Greek, to old English and German, and then to English and then to modern American.

            The translation is a good adjunct Bible to help clarify some rough translation problems. I think you would find it useful. It is not heretical; just clarifies a few difficulties. He has a lot of support material on what the old Aramaic said.

      • homeboy

        so how do you explain over seven hundred prophisies in the bible coming to pass and yet each writer of the bible wrote at different times with no knowledge of who or what would later be written?

        • karolyn

          And where can I find these 700 prophecies?

          • Kate8

            karolyn – They are written throughout the Bible. You have to read it to find them.

            All the books from the Psalms forward are prophecy. Also, Genesis coincides with Revelation.

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            Even Psalms 22 when read with comprehension is about the crucifixion of Christ.

    • spitfire

      Actually the bible was written,by men who recieved the words from god, not from their own minds. The bible is God’s book created by him for us, and not by mortal men. You are terribly confused.

    • Bruce D.

      Karolyn says: “Mohamed could not read or write, so he received these words directly from God and recited them to transcribers. Thus, Muslims have no doubt that the Koran is absolutely infallible.” That would explain why they take passages out of the Koran and use them to kill without remorse.

      • Cawmun Cents

        All of you should look up the term”scribe”in relation to ancient writings.You might be surprised at who was writing what.Very few people in ancient times were literate.They relied on scribes much as we rely on journalists today.The exception here is that we are literate enough to find the truth,but often too lazy and it evades our search.People must be dilligent to find the truth.Often as not the journalists of today,when writing their perceived truth,do not search dilligently enough to actually find it.They accept a partial truth out of the desparation of getting the story across before deadline.Ancient scribes were often much like publicists of today in relation to the people who they accounted to and for.They often stayed right with them as a helper or a companion.This is why many of the historians know what things were written,by whom,and the historical accuracy of the writings.Scribes were likely to be honest forthrighr people as they were usually attached by liason to important men of stature.A writ of academic standard,a sort of resume, was often involved in order to substantiate worthiness.That of course is paired with the fact that often they were told to write what they were told to write and not necessarily the truth as they perceived it. Because putting ones own spin on the story might have dire consequences(to the validity of any writing),and freedom of thought and press did not exist in those days,so artistic license was not as much a part of the equasion as many these days would have you believe.Scibes were a caste.Therein included,lawgivers(politicians),recordkeepers(accountants,tax collectors and journalists),teachers(professors),hypocrites(actors),artists,and storytellers.Thinking of today…as you see this list,you may now understand why these professions all seem to have such an affinity, one for the other.It is not an accident or by chance.It is the reality of from then until now being exactlyy the same.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Left out Criers,or orators who oten spoke for a group or individual in public.Today we call the announcers.

  • thinking about

    Though Jones may not be “responsible” for actions of others he must accept the responsiblity of his own actions. He was forewarned about reaction to his actions and chose to perform the actions without regard to lives being lost and the pain their families feel today. Shame on him.

    • karolyn

      Well, now he has to live with round-the-clock bodyguards.

      • Jeryl

        That fact, in itself, should show you that those he offended are even worse than him. What he did was foolish. But, look around the world today. It is an arguable fact that 90 percent of the terrorists in the world are radical Islamists.

        • RAY

          THEY ARE NOT RADICAL ISLAMIST BUT THEY ARE ISLAMIC PERIOD. AS THE KORAN ORDERS ALL NON BELIEVERS TO BE EITHER KILLED OR BE SERVANTS TO ISLAM

          • Jeryl

            Agreed! However, not all Muslims are murdering cowards, just about 10 percent of them.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Then Why doesn’t theother 90% of them SPEAK OUT AGAINST THEM?? I mean, they out number them 9 to 1!!! That in itself proves your statement to be BS!!!

        • Cawmun Cents

          What it should tell you is that if you are doing the same as the media and focusing more on the burner than the murdering,you are as much to blame as they are.There is never a law made that is against being a fool,but the laws that govern most sane societies would condemn murder.EVERYONE should be discussing the killings and condemning those who committed such atrocities,but instead we are focusing on whether this book or that book holds water.That is a tactic of those who are out there who seek to draw your attention away from the issue at hand.Which is that ordinary Muslim citizens of any nation could suddenly turn into a gang of murderous intent.That should be the onus of further discussion.Do not let the paid leftist prostitutes of move on.org or media matters draw your attention waay from the central point of this thread.Muslims are looking for an excuse to kill anyone who doesnt see things their way.And in countries where this type of behavior is seen as honorable,(can you believe that there are still these kind of nations today?)you find people dancing around in gleeful abandon after they have effectively committed murder.Hello McFly,these are not fundamentalist extremes,but Joe Muslim on the streets of Krapistan.Let us not loose sight of the fact that we are a nation of 300 million in a world with six billion.Does that make us special?No,being Americans makes us special.But we can lose all of that if we let the mentality of people like this flourish in the world.So do we fight this behavior?Or do we accept it because it doesnt necessarily happen in the neighborhood you live in yet?Decisions must be made,eventually.

          • Kate8

            C C – The fact that we are focused on the book burning, rather than on the murder and violence, is a sad testament to our state of sanity.

            How can we expect to make sense out of an insane world.

          • Bruce D.

            Good post Cawmun. I have read that Muslims are killing on the average of one person a day over the last several years in the South of Thailand because they do not cater to their customs in the school system. I am talking police, teachers, some children, and others. It is a serious problem and isn’t going away. People are afraid to go out at night for fear they will be killed at random for something they have nothing to do with personally.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            CC,
            to further bolster your statement, look at the night of 9/11 when there were muslims in London, pulling people out of their cars and making them say allah is great or get their assets kicked!!! These were just “normal” muslims, too!!

      • DaveH

        He may have put himself up as a martyr to alert the rest of us to the growing Cancer. And it is growing. Look up “muslim + dearborn” and start reading.

      • crystal

        Karolyn,

        May you go and live in an Islamist country. Learn the real deal.

        • 45caliber

          I have to agree. I believe that anyone who blindly defends or castigates another culture should live emersed in it for at least two years. Then they might be able to talk about it intelligently. The next best thing is to study it and consider both sides of the issue. Most who speak don’t do either.

        • karolyn

          Now why on earth would I want to do that? Such a ridiculous remark. I prefer studying about it.

          • 45caliber

            So far, I’ve only seen you study the good side from your comments.

          • karolyn

            Well, 45, by now I would think you’d know that I am a person who does look for the good in everything. I always try to maximize good and minimize bad. What gets the most attention expands.

          • 45caliber

            But when you minimize the bad too much you don’t get a decent picture of the entire thing.

            Take Hitler for instance. Some professors are teaching that he must have had some good reason to kill all those people in the concentration camps. That there is always a reason people believe is good for their purposes. Perhaps he did – but what he did was wrong. If we assume he did it for some good reason then it helps hide the wrong he did. We need to look at it ALL and then make comments about it.

          • Kate8

            karolyn – You only look for the good in Muslims and liberals.

            I’ve yet to see you say anything good about Christians or Consrvatives.

            It’s part of upside down morality of today. Embrace the profane and perverse and condemn traditional values.

            What has always been called good will be called evil, and what has always been called evil will be called good.

    • wandamurline

      The people doing the killing needs to take the responsibility of what they did. Jones, although I may not agree with his actions, had a right to burn the Quoran and still does under the Constitution. The people responsible for the murders are just that…responsible. This religious cult has not changed since the 1600′s, don’t expect anything better from them. They have been killing each other for centuries….we need to bring our soldiers home, deport all who are of Muslim faith who are not citizens and allow them to kill each other off as they have been doing for a very long time.

      • DaveH

        Unfortunately, Wanda, that would fly in the face of the main law of our land, the Constitution. On the other hand, who obeys the Constitution these days?

        • http://?? Joe H.

          DaveH,
          They all follow it IF it fits their agenda!! If not, the hell with it!(their words, not mine)

      • crystal

        I’m with you. A lot of people in this country don’t even know that fighting off Muslim terrorist is how we developed our Navy (just one of those things you learn in bootcamp).

      • 45caliber

        In their culture, many are taught that they MUST read the Koran/Qoran (two seperate books) in the ancient tongue. Further, they must NOT learn to read/write any modern language. The most fanatic of their terrorists are raised this way.

    • DaveH

      Yes, and we have been forewarned by history about the disasterous consequences of Socialism. So, we should just shut up and accept its coming?

    • Kate8

      (un)thinking – Where is the outrage for the burning of Bibles? Or the senseless beatings and slaughter of Christians everywhere by Muslims?

      Where is the outrage for the cries of “Death to America” and “Death to Israel”? How about the threats of subjugation by this “great” religion?

      Maybe Christians should rise up again, like they did when Islam was slaughtering its way through Europe, and the Christians had finally had enough.

      Better to show your protest of Islamic creep by burning Korans than by beheadings. Muslims need to learn that we all reap what we sow.

      I say, go ahead and burn, baby, burn. Then let the Muslim burn all the books they want. They just can’t be allowed to get away with their ridiculous rampages and mayhem.

      • JeffH

        Kate8, I searched and found this article “Why Muslims Hate the West”.
        I found it pretty revealing and interesting.
        http://stuffucanuse.com/bombing_commentry/muslims_hate_the_west.htm

        • Kate8

          Great article, JeffH. Thanks.

          It’s true than Islam would not be making the inroads into our nation that they have if we were not standing down and allowing it to happen. What kind of fools allow the influx of a people who’s very culture clashes with our own, and whose people are sworn to dominate and kill us.

          As usual, much is going on at the elite conference tables which is being hidden from us. They know exactly what they are doing.

    • Julie

      According to this theory of thought, does it not also mean that the media, who broadcast what was done well after the fact, actually should be shamed as well, because they had the ability to stop word from going across the world as to what Jones did? After all, I could burn a book, any book, near my home, and if the news did not report it, who would know other than myself and family. This is unless the media passed on the word? While in poor taste, and not a civil thing to do, what about all the attacks against the Bible and other religious items, that are celebrated in the media? It works both ways, the only difference is the media KNEW the reaction this story would create.

      • karolyn

        Asolutely! However, I would doubt Jones would have done it if no one had learned about it.

  • Warrior

    Not to make light of the situation but, I wonder what would happen if Jones decided to burn “rules for radicals”?

    • Michael J.

      Warrior,
      Why obviously, Hillary would have him Fostered.

      • DaveH

        Good one, Michael.

      • 45caliber

        Ouch!

      • JeffH

        …and the DHS and the O’man, AG Holder all would have declared him a “homegrown” terrorist.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JeffH,
          Nah, all those “moderate” progs would have chopped him to pieces!!!

  • http://Walkermedia.org ARTHUR

    AS HISTORY RECORDS, MUDHEAD WAS A DRUGGER AND PRONE TO EPILEPSY. ANYTHING HE HEARD IN HIS HEAD IS QUESTIONABLE. ON THE OTHER HAND MEN DID WRITE THE BIBLE OVER 2000 YEARS AND MORE, THEY ALL TELL THE SAME STORY, INTERRELATE THE SAME PHILOSOPHIES, PREDICTIONS, AND CONSISTENCIES. IS THIS AN ACCIDENT? PERSONALLY I WILL STAND BY MY KJV TRANSCRIBED BIBLE. CHOSE THE COURSE YOU LIKE, I DID.

    • karolyn

      What about the fact that many stories in the Bible were plagiarized from previous writings of other civilizations hundreds of years previous?

      • Jeryl

        Care to prove that statement?

        • Jeep

          Jeryl, the ancient Sumerian story of Gilgamesh is probably 400 yrs older than the earliest known versions of the Biblical flood story of Noah. And, yet they are very similar in context and basics. The story of creation as related in the first two books of the Old Testament are very close to the Mesopotamiam creation myth. There are a number of other examples of Old Testament stories that have obvous references from ancient cultural myths and legends. Sorry my friend if this upsets you, but you cannot change this. It does NOT mean that the Bible is in any way less Holy, or wrong. To paraphrase Jesus, it is by faith.

          • Jeryl

            The oldest book in the Bible is the Book of Job. No one claims that the stories of the Great Flood don’t predate the actual writing of the Scriptures. The Great Flood itself predates the Bible. What we do claim, however, is that the various writers of the books of the Bible were given their words directly from God and that the Scriptures trump any other writings. Obviously, there were records of the flood and the other ancient events. However, God chose to wait for several centuries before giving the writer of Job (whoever he may be), Moses, Joshua and all the subsequent writers of the Old and New Testaments the inspired and absolutely true records. I take no offense, by the way, at what you wrote. If I did, I certainly wouldn’t try to cut your head off. Have a great day.

          • 45caliber

            For your info – ALL ancient cultures of the world have a story of the Flood. There is also arceological data of a huge flood world wide. One story from South American I read in my youth talks of someone there who collected animals into a huge tree to save them during the flood.

            That is one reason that I don’t believe that Gilgamesh was the original story of the flood. Further, if you check the Gilgamesh story, it is the ONLY such story written by the Sumerians. All other writings were fact – so is this fact or legend? To make it more interesting, Gilgamesh was not from the world – but he was an immortal searching for the fountain of immortality. And he toured Hell. Again, fact or legend?

          • Jeep

            You are correct in that many ancient cultures have flood stories that reach back into the mists of time. And, that the story of creation is not new to the Bible. But, I stand by my last sentence that it is “by faith”.

          • CurtisS

            @45 caliber… Actually I haven’t seen any credible evidence of a global flood of biblical proportions. There are, however, a lot of misinterpretations and misunderstanding of scientific finds that some mistakenly think support the flood mythology. I’ve read apologists claim that sea shells on mountain tops are proof of a great flood. I’ve read claims that giant boulders that have been moved miles from their source are proof of a great flood. Yet fossilized ocean creatures found on mountain tops are proof of plate tectonics… not floods. Those giant boulders… the erratic boulders… are moved by glaciers pushing horizontally, not rain water falling vertically. And speaking of glaciers, the melting of the North American ice sheet is now believed to have caused a very sudden draining of glacial Lake Aggasiz. This sudden release of an inland ocean of fresh water is thought to be a possible cause of the Black Sea Deluge Theory which I’ve already posted about. If you can cite some data to verify the scientific proof of a huge world-wide flood, I’d be happy to read it… and maybe you could change my mind. Looking forward to hearing from you…

          • Kate8

            Curtis – Science knows that the Earth has shifted on its axis several times. It is shifting now.

            If a sudden shift is made, it could be enough to change the land masses and the water placement, especially with the accompanying earthquakes.

            No doubt the Earth has flooded many times over the billions of years. It is part of the Earth’s cleansing herself from the destruction wrought by her offspring.

          • CurtisS

            Yes Kate8… science knows that the earth has shifted on its axis several times… that is true… but that really has nothing to do with the rest of your argument. A rotational shift of the axis does not cause the earth’s water to slosh around like waves in a bathtub, because the earth’s water is spinning too. Furthermore, what you’re alluding to is a tsunami or a tsunami-like event, which is a rather temporary flood compared to the 40 days and 40 nights flood of the bible. Moreover, these events have very explainable scientific causes.
            Respectfully, NO… I have yet to hear any compelling evidence that there has ever been a flood of global proportions. There have been many devastating, localized floods on earth over the eons, but there has never been ONE single flood event and there is no physical evidence to suggest otherwise.

          • Kate8

            Curtis – Believe what you want. There are many scientists who disagree with you.

          • CurtisS

            Aw Kate8… that’s a rather lame retort. If you can’t debate the facts and if you can’t intelligently support your argument… you just give up? You pop in to a conversation, throw in some nonsense and when your contribution is challenged, you can’t defend it with anything of substance? There are many scientists that disagree with me? What a childish and empty statement. Name one scientist. Name a scientific theory that supports your argument. Believe what I want? I don’t believe whatever I feel like believing… unlike you, I believe in facts.

        • karolyn

          I have the information at home and do not have the time here at work to address this further, however, I will address it at a later time. Actually, I have addressed it in previous dialogues here.

          • Kate8

            karolyn – The fact that the stories are similar doesn’t prove anything except that different cultures have different interpretations of Earth’s beginnings. What it does show is that the underlying message is the same, when you look past the cultural colorings.

            God created everyone, so it’s natural that all people would have a similar perspective. The fact that religions get formed around basic information, and enhanced by cultural influence, is not so much to their discredit as it is to attest to some higher Intelligence. I believe that truths are encoded in these stories, and are revealed to those who seek them with open minds and hearts. We can only do this by looking beyond the physical “reality” into the reality of spirit. Religion does more to distort truth than to reveal it.

            There is no doubt that the spirit world can use man to carry messages, and often does, even today. What you need to look at is from where in the spirit world it comes. Not all spirits are of God.

            The Bible says “Ye shall know them by their fruits”. So, there you have it.

        • JC

          Jeryl says:
          April 7, 2011 at 7:51 am
          Care to prove that statement?
          ———————————————–

          Actually Karolyn has a point here.
          Check out Zeitgeistmovie.com
          Its a good start and will hep you research if you care to.

        • Kate8

          Curtis – What? You wanted debate?

          It sounded to me like your mind was made up. Personally, I don’t care what you think. I don’t take anyone’s word for things, either. I research them on my own. I assumed that, if you actually cared about the subject, you’d do the same. Nothing I could say would make a difference.

          I could search and find links of scientific reports for you to read, but then, you could find them, too. Convincing you of anything is not my job.

          Sorry, Curtis. You are on your own.

      • RAY

        KAROLYN IF BULLSHIT WAS MONEY YOU WOULD BE A BILLIONAIRE

        • karolyn

          VERY intelligent remark! Speaks well for you.

      • Michael J.

        karolyn,
        Plagiarisam runs rampant in the Koran as well.

      • Isaac Davis

        Post a reference. Saying “it” does NOT make it so. You are like the guy here at work that told me one day that the Constitution is not applicable, just a bunch of old ideas that have no relation to today.

        • DaveH

          Ask him why our Government “servants” (I use that term loosely) swear to uphold it then.

      • lkar

        Which stories karolyn? The creation account? The flood account? Or how about Abraham, Isaac, and Ismael? Just because many cultures have similar stories does make the Bible incorrect. Only an eyewitness can give the accurate account of the events described. As the infalliable, inspired Word of God the Bible relies on outside sources for verification of its underlying moral truth as well as historical truth. If you feel these stories are plagiarized from other cultures, then you should be outraged at any new history book that tells another view of an event (like WW2).
        The beauty of the Bible is the number of different writers from diverse backgrounds wrote on a very complex subject without contradition. The Koran, the book of mormons, and other religious writings get their authenticity from the single writer and the PC masses embracing truth in all religions. There is only one source of absolute truth. You can accept it or reject it. This is the inalienable rights of man, free will! Islam is the antithesis to free will (worship Allah and Mohammad or die). Your so-called peaceful muslims only tolerate your unbelief.

        • lkar

          meant to say “does not make the Bible incorrect”. Even my post should show that man will make mistakes. But God makes no mistakes. We simply chose to ignore the outcomes and consequences of or choices.

        • CurtisS

          Ikar… there are a number of contradictions in the bible and it would appear some very glaring errors. It seems that god, and/or some of his “divinely inspired” authors doesn’t really know animals. In Leviticus… a bat is referred to as a type of bird… and “…the hare chews its cud”. Did god forget that bats are mammals and that hare’s are rodents NOT ruminants?
          This gets to the second point… these simple mistakes (and the others) refute any possibility of the book being infallible.

          • lkar

            Assuming the original hebrew is correctly translated. Even our own language has evolved over time! Infalliable means the original writings, not numerous translations (that are produced by faliable man). Of course, “all those contradictions” that are so conviently stated but rarely found. I will agree to one possible error. The Bible states in Numbers (can’t quite recall the verses) that the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of one of the temple bowls was about 3.0. Of course we know that this ratio is more like 3.14. However, the measurements in the Bible are cubits and the actual standard (reference dimension of a cubit)is unknown. And the description of the measuring required is vague. But I could see this as a possible error.
            How many contradictions do you find in other “holy books”?

          • CurtisS

            Ikar… you raise an extremely valid point… translations. It is my understanding that most of the new testament was written in Aramaic and the old testament was written in Hebrew. Subsequently, they have been translated to Greek and English. There must have been “lost in translation” problems and the odd typo by a tired copyist. I can agree that whatever the translation, the Bible is a worthwhile study of common decency. I struggle with the fundamentalist view of it being taken literally and the word for word truth.

            As for Islam… there is a convenient loophole regarding translation… the only “true” Q’uran is the one written in Arabic. All translated versions are considered to be “less true”.

            Thanks Ikar, for the sincere response.

          • Jana

            Curtis,
            This is why the serious student of the Word has the tools to work with. A concordance is a very important tool, as well as different Bible dictionaries, and even the Book of Josephus who was an historian.
            Actually, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew, and the New Testament was written in Greek and in places, Aramaic. Paul was quite proficient in Greek, as well as the rest of the deciples.

          • Jana

            Curtis S,
            I don’t know the source of your misinformation:

            Ikar… there are a number of contradictions in the bible and it would appear some very glaring errors. It seems that god, and/or some of his “divinely inspired” authors doesn’t really know animals. In Leviticus… a bat is referred to as a type of bird… and “…the hare chews its cud”. Did god forget that bats are mammals and that hare’s are rodents NOT ruminants?
            This gets to the second point… these simple mistakes (and the others) refute any possibility of the book being infallible.********

            In Lev.the bat is being referred to as an unclean meat for consumption. They are lumped in with flying things of the air. I am sure that back then, no men didn’t know that they were mammals. Science came out with that a few thousand years later.
            As far as the hare, going back to the Hebrew definition it is not yet identified.
            Where did you come up with your misinformation? The skeptics bible like so many of your friends?

          • CurtisS

            Hey Jana… the source of my (mis)information is the bible…

            King James Version – Leviticus 11:6 “And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.”

            Young’s Literal Translation – Leviticus 11:6 “and the hare, though it is bringing up the cud, yet the hoof hath not divided — unclean it [is] to you;”

            By the way… what is a ‘concordance’ that you mentioned in your previous post?

          • Jana

            CurtisS,
            It is the Strong’s Concordance that has every word in the Bible (King James) and takes you back to the original Hebrew or Greek word, and its meaning. A very valuable tool.

          • Jana

            Another point Curtis is there really isn’t any mistakes in the Bible. There may have been misunderstandings in the translation. Many times the Bible was transliterated instead of being translated due to the fact that the translaters didn’t know how to explain the words or thoughts. The manuscripts are quite plain and there are no mistakes in them. That is why we keep plugging along and studying and learning and using all of our tools.
            We NEVER quit learning.:)

        • karolyn

          I was talking of myths of previous ages and cultures that are strikingly similar to Biblical stories.

      • CurtisS

        Karolyn you are absolutely correct. The biblical flood is very derivative of the story of Gilgamesh. (However, there is a scientific debate about a catastrophic large scale, but certainly NOT global flood that could be the basis to that story. It’s called the Black Sea deluge theory… and it’s an interesting and very plausible theory.)
        There are many commonalities between the story of Jesus and the stories of Hercules, and Dionysus, and Osiris, and Osiris’ son Horus, and Mithra and a few others. All of these stories predate Christ, yet these protagonists have the very Christ-like characteristics of virgin birth, being the son of god, being able to walk on water, accession to heaven after death, 12 followers, a December 25th birthday, a ‘final meal’ and so on. If you want to call that a coincidence, I think you’re being intellectually dishonest.
        Did you know Eastre was a Germanic goddess of spring and why is the Christmas tree a fir tree?
        If Karolyn is correct… then Michael’s is super hyper-correct three posts later. Christopher Hitchens has documented how the Koran or Q’uran is so obviously plagiarized and is really nothing than a religion designed to favour Arabs in general and Mohammed in particular. I think that’s why muslims won’t allow ANY criticism of their religion, because it cannot stand up to the slightest scrutiny without it becoming readily apparent that it is self-serving, contradictory and both highly derivative and wildly fictional.

        • karolyn

          Thank you Curtis for the clarifications. I did not have the information here at work nor time to look it all up again. The stories are all myths anyway.

          • 45caliber

            Are they? Are you sure? They are old stories but myths? How do you know? A lot of stories are real, you know.

          • karolyn

            Sorry, I will never be convinced that most of the stories in the Old Testament are nothing but myths created to impart some truths or explain the human condition.

          • 45caliber

            You might want to keep in mind that during the times of the old stories people did not write fiction. (That is one reason I really wonder about the Gilgamesh saga.) It was foreign to them. There might be some expansion of the stories such as “I caught a fish THIS long!” but the basis behind them was almost certainly true in the most part.

          • Karolyn

            Come on 45! So you believe in the mythical tales told by so many cultures? You really believe that Eve was made out of Adam’s rib?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            karolyn,
            don’t forget, a lot of “myths” are embellished truths!!

          • Jana

            karolyn,
            In the actual Hebrew, the word translated rib is curve. We now know as the curve from DNA. Man has the same amount of ribs a woman has, but the Old Testament is about God’s dealings with a certain race of people that Christ would come from. That is why Eve is considered the Mother of all living. not that all of the races came from Adam and Eve, but that Christ, was to come from that bloodline. Without Christ we do not have eternal life.

          • Kate8

            Jana – Thank you for that! The proper translation makes all the difference! Eve shared his DNA!

          • CurtisS

            In all my life I’ve never heard the rib=curve=dna explanation. That’s actually plausible. Interesting.

        • Lewis Munn

          A comment on a “flood” was made. What happened when the Asteroid plowed into earth making the Gulf or Mexico, and making a major shift of the earth’s poles, setting up our current pattern of a short warm spells and then 90,000 years of ice?

          I’ll bet the tidal wave was something!

          And the fact that the stories are basically the same lends credence to a real event!

      • crystal

        Elaborate please!!!

        • CurtisS

          Elaborate what? What clarification do you require? What did I write that you didn’t understand? Take one of those names and enter it into a Google search. Go to your library and sign out Christopher Hitchen’s book “God is Not Great” and read the chapter on Islam. Watch the documentary about Ballard’s undersea exploration of the Black Sea and the great flood theory.

      • 45caliber

        karolyn:

        I can’t call it stealing the stories.

        If you check, Abram (later Aberham) was Sumerian until called by God to become the father of his people. Therefore any stories prior to Abram were Sumarian – AND were also stories of Abram’s ancestors.

        Stealing? Borrowing? No.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Sumerian?That name probably didnt exsist in Abrams day.It is a name given to an ancient society by modern academics.

      • Patricia

        karolyn, sweetheart, you need to do more research before you make statements like that one. Let me try to explain. Some of the stories, as you call them, were handed down from generation to generation by word of mouth, what historians call oral tradition. This is not the same as the tales your grandma tells around the Thanksgiving table. The responsibility of preserving God’s word and their history was taken extremely seriously, and was a full time occupation in ancient civilizations, until such time as there was the means developed to record it. That is how the book of Genesis was preserved until Moses wrote it down with the other four books of the Pentateuch. During that time there was mass migration among humankind, and the oral tradition went with them. “Stories” in other cultures that bear a resemblance to those in the Bible most likely do so because of a common origin, not because the Bible was plagiarized from the fanciful musings of an imaginative group of nomads.

        • karolyn

          But why the differences in time. Stories very similar to the birth of Jesus’ were written hundreds of years before his birth.

          • 45caliber

            So they were. Does that mean that anyone born after is wrong or a lie? I assume you were born in a hospital. Does that mean someone else born in a hospital is false?

          • Karolyn

            But the stories are so similar, even down to similarities in names!

          • Jana

            karolyn,
            Satan is a great imitator. This is even why the anti Christ. He wants to BE Christ, but he is not.

  • Michael J.

    Mr. Jones was within his first ammendment rights when burning the Koran. As he stated, it is an evil book “guilty of crimes against humanity”. A book that not only condones, but insist the Muslim’s duty toward killing all non believers in Mohamed, prescribes death by stoning for what Muslim’s perceive as crimes, but that would not even rise too the level of a misdemeanor here in the west.

    I think most would agree that Hitler’s Mein Kampf was also an evil book which if had been exposed, condemned and burned prior to The Fuher’s rise to power would have saved countless millions of lives.
    Mr. Jones is performing the same task of exposing, condemning and burning a parellel evil.

    Mr. Jones is a man of backbone who is unafraid to speak the truth that so many others suppress as a result of political correctness. His is not an act of insensitivity, but rather one of shedding light on the barbaric teachings of a long dead pedophile who was hell bent on seeking revenge for the crusades of a thousand years ago.

    Blaming Jones for subsequent violence perpetrated against our soldiers or any other human beings is just a show of weakness and mass moral impotence that would have made Neville Chamberlain proud.

    Maybe you folks havn’t noticed, but the Islamafacist and the Communist are now teaming up for a grand Jihad against us. Time to start calling a spade, a spade and learn to “just say no” to political correctness.

    • RAY

      SO VERY TRUE. PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMO.

    • Isaac Davis

      History does repeat itself, and Einstein nailed it: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different result. The nazi’s teamed up with the muzzies and, here we go again.

    • Kate8

      Michael J. – Very well said. Bravo.

  • mvjim

    So Terry Jones burns a Koran, and dozens of innocents die thousands of miles away. What kind of sense does this make? Why don’t these crazies come over here and persecute Rev. Jones?
    We complain about flag burners or burning presidents in effigies on college campuses, but all we can do is complain. We believe in freedom of speech over here. We have a level of civilization people in other cultures just dream about. So all these people trying to level the playing field and say American civilization is no better than anywhere else are fooling themselves big-time.

    • Jen

      Right, and what about the reporters of the NY times that exposed our tools for capturing the terrorists? Aren’t they responsible for the deaths of our soldiers? How ’bout the Wikileaks traitor? How ’bout MSNBC and all the crap they spew about our evil America?…..

      • DaveH

        The Government has over 16 million classified documents that the public is not allowed to see. And they work for us? What a joke.
        The real traitors are our supposed employees (Government) who are keeping us in the dark about their sneaky escapades.

        • Kate8

          You speak the truth, DaveH. We wouldn’t be having any of this trouble if it weren’t for our “leaders” and “public servants”.

          They created this mess, and then they blame us. The only thing we are guilty of is putting them in office.

      • Jeep

        Wouldn’t that also include Oman with his statement that our troops in Afghanistan are “just air-raiding villages and killing civilians” in Aug 07? And, is he now responsible for the deaths of civiians and opposition forces killed in airstrikes yesterday in Lybia?

        • 45caliber

          Of course he isn’t to blame. After all, all liberal missiles and bombs are taught early to avoid any innocent civilians. Only conservative missiles and bombs kill everybody. Didn’t you learn that in school?

          • Jeep

            Wow, they must be REALLY smart bombs! LOL

  • patrick

    Oh no, once again, the real story is being overwritten! Just sit and open up your mind and think about all the Flag burnings and Bible burnings that have taken place over many years past. OK now you are getting the picture. So let’s go back to each and every case of flag burning and bible burning, bring forth all those people that committed those crimes, which by the way are allowed to all of us by Constitutional Law, and bring them to trial for treason. Are they not responsible for all of our previous wars in Europe, Viet Nam, Afghan, Iraq, etc.etc.? Hey come on now, isn’t that what Liberals do everyday… blame somebody else for everything that happens that they don’t agree with? I feel sorry for Rev. Jones for speaking out against muslim terrorists and the Koran teachings, which he believes are not right, and then he has to take the liberal media’s word murder of him and his followers because they are allowed free speech. Something is wrong right here in River City… hint= Liberal Democrats following Obammy boy and his crew of crooked czars.

    • Jeryl

      As a matter of fact, our own military burned hundreds of Bibles to avoid trouble with the Islamic government. Did Christians respond by killing innocents? Of course not.

      • 45caliber

        But according to the Islam fundamentalists the reason the Christians didn’t kill a bunch of innocent people just shows that we are weak and ready to be defeated by them.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          45caliber,
          all I can say to that, if they truly believe that is, as the wrestler said “Want some?? Come get some!!!

      • Lewis Munn

        We didn’t even kill the guilty!!

    • RAY

      HEY PATRICK HAS ANYONE HERE WONDERED WHY HUSSEIN WASNT WEARING ANY JEWELRY DURING RAMADAN !!! WELL ITS AGAINST THE TEACHINGS OF THE “KORAN” HIS FEEBLE EXCUSE WAS HIS RING WAS BEING REPAIRED. WELL WHAT ABOUT THE MISSING WATCH ON HIS RIGHT ARM ??

      • Jeryl

        Right on! And what about the fact that he turned his back on the National Day of Prayer, but during Ramadan he hosted Muslims and prayed with them. The man is a Muslim.

        • karolyn

          If I remember correctly, I had heard that the President did participate in the National Day of Prayer this year. I know I heard something about a prayer breakfast.

  • DMS

    Bumper sticker:
    INFLAME Extremists: Burn That Book!

    • Doc Sarvis

      Other bumper sticker:
      COEXIST

      • RAY

        THAT BUMPER STICKER PISSES ME OFF EVERYTIME I SEE ONE. IT TELLS ME THAT THE DRIVER HAS’NT A CLUE TO THE WORLDS PROBLEM WITH ISLAM

        • ValDM

          I agree with you on this. If I did what I wanted to when I see one of these, it would get me a jail term, so I just grit my teeth and move on.

        • 45caliber

          Actually I laugh at the stupidity of anyone who might want to show that bumper sticker on his car. If nothing else, it tells the fundamentalists “Here is a fool who will allow you to kill him without making any defense.”

      • Isaac Davis

        the indicator of subjugation…look at the very first character in that “sign of ignorance”.

      • Isaac Davis

        “coexist” equates to dhimmitude.

      • Jeep

        Doc, while I tend to like the thought of peaceful co-existance, the only flaw is in the “CO” part. Does that not infer that both parties at least not try to kill each other?

      • DaveH

        Think about that, Doc, the next time you vote for people that want to take the property of others, and dictate the personal choices of others. As with most other Liberal buzzwords, coexist only applies to your opponents, doesn’t it?

        • 45caliber

          Correct.

      • JC

        Does “COEXIST” apply to Muslims too?
        I’ll ponder on that while I buy a new 12ga tonight. ;)

        • JeffH

          JC, I just bought a new 5.5 lb. 20ga Benelli Montefeltro…10 day waiting period in Calif, pick it up on the 15th.

          • JC

            Fun. Bird hunting?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JC,
            Nah protection from thosepreditor birds, Muzzie Buzzards!!

          • JC

            Not sure what that is Joe, but if it requires a 20ga,
            I’ve got one! :)

          • JeffH

            JC, more for skeet shooting and dove and if the situation is right, maybe some ducks. It’s a purtty little thing, used but like new and saved about 5 bills below new.

            JoeH, I got a 3-1/2 inch 12 ga Benelli for the muzzie buzzards and and an AR15 with lotsa ammo for the rats, muzzie or not.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            I been talkin to a guy about a rifle built on the same frame as an M14 and 7.62 cal!! If it’s half as good as it looks and the ones I fired in the Army when I first went in, I’ll love it!! the only stumbling block we have right now is price and my wife!!! She says I don’t need one of that caliber and I say I do!! It’ll be good for that occaisonal RAT that crosses my…………property, yup, my property, that’s it!!

      • Doc Sarvis

        There sure is A LOT of hatred in response to my simple four word post. Unfortunately, the responses contain little if any valid points of view.

        • Jeep

          Really Doc? I didn’t think you were that naive. Surly you can figure out the point most of us are trying to make. Or, do you choose to ignore the reality of “coexistance”? Both sides do not have to like each other, but they can’t be trying to kill each other either. And, I don’t know if you’ve heard about this, but there are some really tough hombres out there that have sworn to kill Americans for no other reason than that they are American. If you think coexistance is so great, then I’ll get you a ticket to Kandahar and you can wander down the streets at your leisure. Or, maybe a quiet Mogadishu neighborhood is more to your liking?

        • DaveH

          That was a very hateful comment, Doc. You should be ashamed of yourself.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com Dillon

    So let’s see they kill behead and riot when they are happy or when they are angry or when some fool burns there holy book or for any number of reasons. Sounds like when an alcoholic would have a drink for any reason. Definitely a mixed up bunch of people.If there were not so many of them they would be laughable.

    • Michael J.

      Dillon,
      They will kill you for drinking alcohol too.
      Nope, I was wrong. They just cut your hand off for the heinous offense of drinking alcohol.

      Now wait a minute, they own or run every beer store in America. You know, the stores that have the little crack pipes hanging on a convenient little rack right next to the check out register.

      Hmmm… How does that work? Their religion forbids them indulging in the consumption of alcohol, tobacco and drugs under the penalty of death, but they own or operate stores in this country that sell all the above to our addicted and enslaved lost souls in exchange for profits which they send home to cousin Abdul to purchase more AK 47′s and RPG’s to kill more westerners with… OK now I get it.

  • Former Walmart person

    To be fair, I heard that the UN troops fired first into the muslum crowd. the muslums, ultra pissed off, were then pushed over the edge. Overpowered the gurads with assult rifles (impressive), then used those weapons to fire back. Everyone is forgetting that the UN fired first… In my mind that changes a lot. People should be allowed to protest. However, morally, whoever engages in violence first, loses.

    • wandamurline

      And this is acceptable to kill innocent employees? Please. You should go and live in Afghanistan…you would probably like it there.

    • Isaac Davis

      I can imagine this scenario…bunch of blue hats all gussied up with their UN-iforms and acting all important, then get scared when the first sign of a challenge and pull a trigger. THEN, they show their soft under-belly by screaming like girls and throwing down their chicom pop-gun and running. Yep, my trash can has a blue top on it, too!

    • DaveH
  • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

    What makes anyone think there is any such thing as a good moderate Muslim in 2011? They look a lot like the “good” moderate whites in Alabama in 1961. Today’s moderate Muslims support Sharia laws to oppress women and infidels but do not blow up any buildings. We supported “Jim Crow” laws of segregation and discrimination to oppress blacks but did not lynch any of them. Besides, the moderate Muslims have various terrorist groups to do the wet work, and we did too–the KKK, etc.

    • Jeryl

      I have to agree. My real problem with “moderate” Muslims is that they hide their heads in the sand and let the extremists go merrily about their way. That’s tacit agreement with the extremists.

    • DaveH

      Muslims are peaceful and moderate when they are greatly outnumbered. Who wouldn’t be in those circumstances?
      Here is a list of Muslim-majority countries. Look up the individual countries with the search terms “countryname + religious tolerance”. See how it is once they achieve majority:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_majority_countries

    • CurtisS

      A moderate Muslim… is just a Muslim that doesn’t say things out loud and gets other Muslims to do the dirty work.

  • Bob

    I’m tired of seeing my flag and other holy books burned. Whey burn a flag or holy book, burn a Quran. When they act up kill them.

    • karolyn

      Books and flags are just symbols.

      • 45caliber

        That’s right. And as symbols, they represent far more than their actual value. For instance, the Bible represents Christianity. The flag (the US flag) represents the country. By misusing either, those who believe what they represent can become angry. Why make people angry? There are many reasons. One is to point out that they can be wrong. Another is to point out where they are right. Which do you do?

      • JeffH

        …then why all the outrage and murder over Jones burning one copy of the Quran, Kuran, Koran, Qur’ān, Coran or al-Qur’ān.
        Quite the uncivilized I must say.

  • JC

    Was mohamed inspired of God or was SATAN directing him! Their is a God of the Bible and a god of the koran. James 2:19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. You pick!!

    • JC

      Not the same JC who posts here regularly as a Libertarian.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Mr Livingston? could you have your people try to make impossible to have more than one person with a screen name??? Other sites do it, why not here. As you can see, I like it here, but it is very upsetting to think a person you have been reading for months has gone round the bend just to find it is another by the same name!! Please help us.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy 131

    What a one-sided view of religious atrocities by the world media, who keep giving the burning of a book all their attention and ignoring the real threat to the people of the world and what they have been suffering. Where was the indignation from the media of the burning of many Churches and Synagogues in Africa by Muslims, with occupants locked inside some of them, in the last few years? Or media indignation for the hunting down and killing of Christians in Iraq by Muslims, while our soldiers protect the Muslims and ignore the plight of the Christians? Or media indignation for the murder of two teenage Christian girls in Malaysia by Muslims for simply reading their Bible, a book Muslims burn daily around the world, sometimes while in the possesion of their owners? The burning of this book by Pastor Jones has received more attention by the media than all those other things I just described in my questions about the media’s indignation. In that book that was burned, Allah the God of Islam, tells all Muslims to lie to and deceive Kauffers (unbelievers and people of other religions) until they achieve dominance, at which time it is their holy duty to either convert these Kauffers to Islam, or if they can’t, then to kill them. Muslims claim that Allah is the same God as the Christian/Judeo God Yahweh, but Christians are to weak and Jews to stubborn to follow His precepts, and only Muslims are strong and obediant enough to accept those precepts, through Islam, and receive salvation from God. The question here that begs an answer is, would God Yahweh ask the same from Christians and Jews that Allah tells Muslims to do to fullfill their holy duty, for if not, then Allah is not the same God as Yahweh, and as the Bible and Torah teaches Christians and Jews, there is only one true God, therefore Allh is a false God. With this revelation, Ghosh needs to be asked if in all his great knowledge, does he know that Satan claims to be a God, or in his wisdom, does he understand that the Bible and Torah is the Word of God, revealed to His Prophets, who recorded them for Gods heritage to His people? Also does Ghosh understand that Islam is the One World Religion out to destroy all other religions in the world, that is probably the religion prophecied about in the Bible, in the Book of Revelation? To bad Ghosh thinks more of the book that was burned by Pastor Jones than he does of the Holy Bible or Torah. But God did give us all a free will to make our own choices, to which we will be judged on, or so the Bible and Torah teaches us.

  • M.D.

    I am no conservative by any means, rather someone who looks for common sense observations. Just as it is obvious you must consider raising taxes as well as cutting spending to balance a budget, you cannot equate the Muslim faith with the Christan faith. And if we keep trying to do it, it will be at our own peril. To be wary is smart.

    • Isaac Davis

      You have the math wrong! It is insanity to believe that to balance a budget there is some moral obligation to *raise* taxes and cut spending. The moral solution would be to reduce the NEED for blatant and immoral spending–eliminate it entirely where possible. What you describe (and I am WAY off topic here!) is exactly what our feral gov’t has done for over 100 years.

      • M.D.

        I get your position, Issac, and I agree you are way off topic.

        I seek common sense solutions in TODAY’S world, not a world of 100 years ago.

        I get into arguments with Conservatives and Liberals all the time and I find over and over again their thinking is way too narrow and they try to wrap up all the issues we face into overly simplistic answers.

        Anyway, back on topic– this web site describes what is going on with Islam very well:

        http://frontpagemag.com/2010/09/20/the-third-choice/

        • DaveH

          M.D.,
          See the link I provided below for a refutation of your “simplistic” solution.

        • Michael J.

          MD says:
          “Gradually, and in countless ways, the West is accepting that Islam deserves to be treated differently and preferentially. We are finding it perfectly normal to make concessions to Islam which would never be made to other faiths. The “third choice” of my title is the alternative to conversion to Islam or the sword. This is the choice to give up fighting, and surrender to Islam, and live as a non-Muslim under Islamic rule. But there is a price to keeping your head without converting, and this is to serve Islam and to embrace your own inferiority.

          The two most characteristic psychological traits of the dhimmi are gratitude and humility. We are seeing both these traits shaping public discourse around Islam. President Obama, for example, has spoken of the “debt” the West owes to Islam. This sense of indebtedness is being imparted to our schoolchildren through Islamicized history textbooks.”

          MD,
          I can gut a hog in six to eight foot seas without losing my lunch, but the stuff you post makes me nauseous.

          All I can say is you must be kidding me. If George Washington shared your sheepishness when it came to dealing with England, we would all be speaking British now!

          But seriously, that kind of appeasement does not guarantee peace, only subservience.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Michael J,
            Very well stated and I agree 100%! I doubt there are many true American Vets out there that would disagree with you!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA….AGAIN!!!!

    • DaveH

      Raising taxes as well as cutting spending is not obvious at all. In fact history has proved it wrong. As Politicians get more money, they will spend more money. That has been proven time and again. The only way to reduce our deficit is to roll back the Government spending. Period.
      http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10208

      • James

        DaveH, True, but the only way to pay off the national debt ($14.2 trillion) is for Congress to tax Americans and use that money to redeem the Treasury Bonds that our debt-holders own.

    • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

      Exactly why should we raise taxes to fund illegal (unconstitutional) programs? Don’t just cut them, destroy them.

  • Richard from Camano

    Let’s face it. A “Good” Muslim has only one or two offspring. Those with 5 and 6 children are part of the true Muslim problem, which is to overpopulate their countries so they can move to places to take over, like they are trying to do in the US and have done in Europe. They will soon have enough voters to ruin the US as it is now. Trust few, verify often and let the number of children they have be your basis for belief of what they say.

    • Carlucci

      The hispanics are doing the same thing (overpopulating) with the same intention (taking over).

      • karolyn

        Hispanics have a lot of kids because they’re for the most part Roman Catholic, and it is just their culture.

        • Carlucci

          Oh really, Karolyn?? Haven’t you ever heard of Aztlan? They believe that California and Texas really belong to them:

          http://www.illegalaliens.us/aztlan.htm

          • Carlucci

            And Arizona, too.

          • Cawmun Cents

            I live in California and I am fixing to give it back to them(Mexicans).They couldnt possibly screw it up worse than the progressives have…haw!

    • DaveH

      And we foolishly provide them the framework to have large families with our welfare system.

  • DC. Ed

    I think that the Terry Jones incident shows what many of the muslims are about.
    They have been murdering Christians all over the world; and we are worried about offending them by a book burning? Give me a break.
    Christians are becoming more outraged all of the time.
    Whether you like it or not, it is war.
    You think that you can play nice with those people if you are a Christian? Think again.
    You have to give credit to the Israelies, for the way that they handle those types of people,
    This was a wake up call, and a good lesson for all.

    • DaveH

      You don’t have to be a Christian to fall into their sights.

    • James

      DC.Ed, They should sell Jones more Korans, so he could burn those, that’s just good business. Think of the profit potential.

  • jopa

    From the information I have seen so far I would have to agree with Ben Chrystal.It must be a cold day in hell when I agree with Ben.When you have a religion that makes people go to the extreme of actually killing someone because an individual burned a copy of the book made by man it is time for these people to get a new religion.It would take more than three thousand years to convert them over to Christianity so it is time to get the hell out of there.The same story Ben is talking about they showed the afghans burning an American flag and here we are spending billions to take them out of the caveman mentality and rebuild their nation.Put our troops on American borders!!

    • Jeryl

      Right on!

    • JeffH

      Hear Hear! I agree.

  • Mike

    I think most people have this entire issue reversed. Paster Jones did not create (cause) the murder going on in response to his actions but rather his actions were created (caused) by the actions of the radicals. They have been murdering at the drop of the hat for so long they think their behaviour normal. Burning a book is imoral but murder is acceptable?

    • Jeryl

      Ah, to be politically correct, the pundits have to vouch for evil, while ignoring good. You’re right.

  • jopa

    DC ED:You claim the Muslims are murdering people all over the world but if you watch the news Christians are doing the same thing.Is that okay with you or are some people more special than others that allows them to kill their fellow man and have your blessing.We went into Afghanistan to get Osama Bin Laden twelve years ago and we have been there so long everyone forgot what the mission was.You very seldom hear the guys name anymore.

    • Jeryl

      Jopa, Jews are persecuted all over the world, yet rarely take a Muslim life except in response to terrorism. As for Christians, for every Christian terrorist, there are 100,000 Muslim terrorists. Get your head out of the sand! Ninty nine point nine percent of the terrorists in the world are Muslims.

      • karolyn

        “for every Christian terrorist, there are 100,000 Muslim terrorists. ”
        ###################
        And where did you get your stats from?

    • DaveH

      How about some examples of Christians murdering people around the world, Jopa?

      • Jeep

        DaveH, there are several terrorist organizations around the world that are Christian in nature, such as the National Liberation Front of Tripura in India, the Iron Guard in Romania, the Orange Volunteers in Great Britain and a few others scattered throughout the world. The difference with these groups is obviously they are fringe elements and are kept on the fringe by mainstream Christianity. Muslim extremists, in general, are not always on the fringe and they are supported by many “mainstream” Muslim groups. Basically the “fringe” in the Muslim community is a lot closer than the “fringe” in the Christian community.

        • Michael J.

          Jeep,
          Out of curiousity, are these terrorist organizations that just happen to be Christian? Or is Christianity the core of their terrorist beliefs? Do they feel driven to acts of violence by their God?

          • Jeep

            Out of curiousity, are these terrorist organizations that just happen to be Christian? Or is Christianity the core of their terrorist beliefs? Do they feel driven to acts of violence by their God?

            Great questions Michael. Most “Christian” terrorist organizations are somewhere in the middle, a prime example you may be familiar with is the KKK. They “preach” a twisted form of Christian doctrine to support their beliefs in violence and racial segregation. Others, such as the Orange Volunteers are Protestants that are vehemently anti-Catholic and like to put bombs in Catholic churches. It gets a little less clear the further outside the west you go. The NLFT prefer to “convert” Hindus at gun point. As you might expect, they take verses from the Old Testament to support their violent behavior in the “name of God”.

          • CurtisS

            Aren’t “the Troubles” in Ireland an example of Christian terrorism? Just askin’…

          • Michael J.

            Curtis S,
            No, the IRA are freedom fighters in anyones book.

          • Jeep

            Michael, I would never include the IRA in a discussion on religious terrorism. Without going into a history of the IRA, suffice it to say that any perceived religious implications for the struggle in Ireland are a product of propaganda from both sides of the conflict.

    • Cawmun Cents

      The stupidity here is that the Muslims go into a Christian part of town and shoot rockets at the Israelis,then the Israelis fire back at the source of the attack killing Christitans.After that,to play to the western news sources they(Muslims)pick up a Christian childs dead body and parade it around like a Muslim child was killed and wallah!,you have instant sympathy from leftist idealogues.The American media knows this goes on yet says nothing about it.Why?They are part of the same cloth as the ponticians are,the ancient caste of the Scribes.They know that to control your mind is to control where your money is spent.So they take advantage of the unfortunate emotions of the masses in order to make you believe that the lie is truth.And you eat it(bull sh@t) because it is candy-coated and it makes you feel righteous in your indignation.Then you support the ways and means comittee’s source of obtaining your wealth to help the unfortunate Muslims in lower Krapistan.It would be funny if it werent true….

      • Cawmun Cents

        In other words how does it feel to be a cash cow?

    • James

      Jopa, We went into Afghanistan ten years ago, and in December 2001 bin Laden was killed our secret forces there. It was shortly after that when the substitute for bin Laden appeared – a shorter, heavier faced, bushier bearded, right-handed version of him. The federal warmongers want Osama bin Laden to exist so they can continue meddling in the Middle East. If they were to acknowledge his death, the reason for fighting ‘terrorists’ would be over.

  • Harry

    kathryn, you must be a moslem or a college student taking one of those middle east courses offered by and payed for by the Saudis, teaching that the moslem religion is a religion of tolerance and acceptance. Tolerance and acceptance don’t even fit most moslems within their own faith, especially women. Saudi Arabia is financing American college today with millions of dollars to provide middle eastern classes taught by moslems or liberal professors (who are basically ignorant to every thing around them) to teach the moslem faith as a loving and caring religion.

    The moslems believe that committing suicide for the good of the religion will get them a special place in heaven with whores to galore.
    A women caught on earth committing adultry is stoned to death, but in the moslem heaven women are going to becomes whores to the glory of allah.

    Ray you say it pretty straight, probably to strong for most people when you’re talking about something that is not political correct to talk about.

    Randy an excellent article, their is no power other than in the name of Jesus. Jesus brings absolutes and our society today through the public education system and the liberal churches don’t teach absolutes. Our education system is doing everything it can to brain wash the young people in to believing that the constitution was not written on Christian-Judeo principles.

    We even have politician swearing in to protect our country on the koran, what a disgrace to America. Those two congressman represent the moslem community not the Constitution of the United States and that is what they have sworn to uphold, the koran.

    It is an interesting read to read about mohammeds life, how he got this great revelation from satan and started the moslem religion. allah is actually the moon god that mohammeds family worshiped and it was mohammeds favorite idol. ( As represented by the quarter moon crestant over the mosques)In writing the koran, he took inserts from the Septuagint and gave them a greater value, ex: the Jewish people prayed three time a day so the moslems will pray five times a day.

    For kathryn, you need to read the book of John and see how Jesus dealt with every situation in regards to people with love. Good example is the woman that was caught in adultery, when none of her accusers dared throw the first stone, Jesus didn’t condemn her, now under the old testament law, the accusers had a right to stone her as moslems do under their law. But Christians don’t live under the law and I apologize for all those people in the puplits today that don’t know that, Christ brought with Him Grace, Truth, and Mercy, He brought a loving relationship, He came has someone who wants to know you and you know Him and have fellowship with Him. We don’t condone adultery but it is not our job to judge the individual. Most people involved in sexual sins, whether it is adultery, homosexuality or prostitution are looking for love through the flesh, they have never learned that Jesus comes to them with His love in the Spirit.
    Moslems themselves, as a whole are not bad people, they just have a warped ideology.

  • Mike

    GOD does not preach hate, murder, extortion. I’ll give you three guesses who does, and the first two don’t count.

    • James

      Mike, The Lord said “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” (Rom. 9:13). Esau was Jacob’s twin brother who married out of his race.

  • ajfrench

    Terry Jones is NOT the real moran here. Those who continually sway with the status quo in a sixties style mantra of peace and love are the real morons. Terry Jones is spiritually minded and understands full well the intentions of this corrupt and lawless religion. Under this Sharia Law, the very mindless nannies that are pushing for their presence will be the first to vanish under their law, ie; prostitutes, gays, gamblers, the adultrous, etc. Do you really beleive they are going to change their MO. Part of Sharia Law is pretending that you are agreeable to establish a footing to destroy. Has anyone in favor of this class taken even a moment to study Sharia Law. I think not. If God told the Jews to not allow the heathen to live among them, how much more should we heed the call of Christ to not allow the lawless to live among us. JESUS IS LORD!!!!

  • http://com i41

    Trying to say islam has the same God as Christians do is pre BS. Moohamid chose the clay figurine moon god allah. The first part of the Queeran was Moohmid trying to get afollowing just like Jim Jones did. Both of these freaks used fear and total control over anything his followers did down to killing themselves. The pedophile used parts of several religions to see if he could get a grup using the plesant parts of all the other religions. When that didn’t work after 10-15 years in Mecca, he bailed and went to Medena a spot like San Fran for anything goes zone. Moohamid found out fear and terror got converts way easier than nice words. The Queeran is the only ideology driving group that approves of lying and other abhorant behavior as normal. The f–king muslims in the USA allow killings of even memebers of their own group as a religious behavior as normal. The reason the scum bag pervert goat abusing worshippers go ape when a Queeran is trashed some where is,the bastards are so imbred. Any group that allows abuse and use of females and their children as normal is one sick bunch of pukes. All pervert muslims will do what ever their nut job iman tells them to, think not look art Clyso Louie and Onumnutts “uncle” rev Wrong and their freaky off the wall “teachings”. Only way to solve the problem is either a neutoring program for all males or just simple removal from society and the world. Looks like Onumnutts plan for Libya is not working out, thanks to the pusified meddling of Onumnuts. Burn a Queeran and shoot the sand rats when they start wiggen out and going on their presisposed killing sprees.

  • SS McDonald

    Are we to bury our collective heads in the sand every time some Muslim is offended by someone criticizing Mohammed or the Koran or any of 2 dozen other “outrages” that Muslims riot about? With that kind of thinking, we have lost any battle before it starts.
    Is Jones not entitled to the 1st Amendment as anyone else? Maybe Jones has hit upon, “enough is enough.”
    Screw what the Muslims think or feel. If they want to join the rest of the human race in intelligent dialog, I’m for that. If they want to terrorize any dissent that raises up against Islam, then Jones is right.
    Too bad General Petraeus did not walk away with General McChrystal when the opportunity presented itself. Our troops would likely today be out of these perpetual NO-WIN neanderthal conflicts in which we are embroiled.

  • Jack54

    To All,

    The world is about power, control and wealth…deals among the elites whose mode of operations include collusion and conspiracy to achieve their objectives…the Islamo-fascists are currently the worst of the bunch…similar to the Hitler and Stalin regimes absolute power to the Islamo-fascists is more important than wealth and life is expendable in whatever numbers necessary to achieve total power…

    Western World hypocrisy makes it difficult to get our point across to the people under the totalitarian threats of the Islamo-fascists…media outside the USA tends to present the bad sides of our political/governmental system more so than the media in the USA…lets face it…the most important objective of the US Federal/State/Local governments led by our hypocritical political parties is perpetuating the system…political correctness within the system and loyalty to the system is what matters most…getting things accomplished correctly…fairly…effectively…is only secondary…if it ever happens at all…sure, eventually most of our governments mistakes or bad conduct is brought to the forefront…and sometimes justice is done and corrections are made…but how does it happen in the first place…too much power…laws that protect those in government from prosecution and justice for their totalitarian abuses…the Supremes Court rulings are prime examples of this…we have those who are supposed to be projecting the law that we have a totally fair court system for all individuals who in fact allow collusion, conspiracy and down right evil doings go unpunished(Connick as his cronies setting up some poor guy to be executed )…Justice Thomas and Scalia are an embarassment to our country…but they have the power to deny justice when their prime objective is supposed to be ensuring that justice is done every time…for shame…if we had a system of true justice the FBI should be arresting Thomas and Scalia for obstruction of justice for laws that are currently on the books or laws that should be on the books…it appears to the outside world that in the USA the government has the power to control things similar to the Nazis and Soviet regimes so as all outcomes are guaranteed by the powers of the state…things need to be corrected not perpetuated…

    I am a Christian…we are supposed to stick up for our true leader…his name is Jesus Christ…he has the highest standards…his standards transcend all time…we have a right to defend ourselves and others…it is an obligation to treat others exactly the way we want others to treat us…we must demand justice for all while expecting all others to do the same including the Islamo-fascists…we should be building shale oil refineries in the US right now…if we have to spend a few extra billion constructing them in acceptable economic envelopes and within a protected military area then lets do it…lets get out of the middle east…lets put a total arms embargo on the middle east…the money we spend dealing with those Islamo`s can be spent for our energy industries and our economy will improve drastically…also, once basically out of the middle east for oil reasons we can better effectively deal with the Islamo extremists…most likely China will get stuck with the mess as they need the oil…how we ever led the way to making an economic power via our investments in China(a communist led country that opposes Christianity)just shows that wealth means more than the Christian Doctrine…

    Now, what are the real facts about 9/11…these videos showing explosions coming from the lower levels of the two World Trade Towers are disturbing as are the vidoes of the other towers in the area that appear to drop without ever being hit by a plane at all…is it all computer fabrication?…what about the lady working for the FBI at the Minnesota office and her inability to get management to stop the Islamo group that flew the jets into the towers after she had tracked them down to the flight school…

    I was working for a Islamo owned contractor on 9/11…they immediately blamed the attack on the CIA…claiming the planes were controlled like drones…I…along with other Americans working for them… no longer could stand working for them…after that day it never was the same working for them and as a result all the Americans got laid-off within the next 4 months…I would hate to think that
    their accusations were the truth in much the same way I do not want to believe that our government has built FEMA CAMPS or wants to control the internet and cell phone comunications like the Chinese communists…we need to make any necessary corrections for these matters including any extreme and unnecessary powers attributed to the Patriot ACT and move on…

    In all fairness…it seems as if Jews and Islamics have no problem bad mouthing Christ…but if a Christian compares/criticizes the evident parallels between the the Old Hebrew Testament and the Koran…both which allow conquering and enslaving their neighbors and having slave wives in the name of religion…well, then we Christians are being prejudiced…life is a learning experience…two wrongs do not make something right(Christ taught us this)…so, we are only helping others we when uncover the basis of bad idealogy as it is…not being prejudiced…

    Christians, Jews, Muslims…all must act to the highest standards…and the US Constitution includes most of those higher standards…and our leaders must act within and enforce those higher standards…no one must be above the law…utilize the resources of the government for special interest groups or operate with abusive powers to enact and enforce unconstitutional laws period…those leaders who do this are breaking their oaths of office to the people and should be dealt with as criminals…

    Have a nice day

    • DaveH

      There is only one way to defang those elites of whom you speak. And that is to downsize their agent of force — the Government. We need to downsize Government dramatically and get them back to their original mission in this country which is to protect us from the force of others. Instead, we have apathetically allowed them to become the forcers. They are impoverishing our country and they are stepping all over our Freedom.
      For Individual Liberty, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, Limited Government, and Peace — Vote Libertarian:
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      • Meteorlady

        My fervent wish is that all will look at the Liberation party and see if they can manage to bring themselves to start voting for their candidates and supporting the party. I always get the “wasted vote” argument though because people are so brainwashed into believing that. No vote is wasted if it’s cast by an informed and intelligent voter.

        • DaveH

          They waste their vote when they vote for people who don’t really represent what they want. It is a guarantee of mediocrity to vote for the lesser of two evils.

        • Carlucci

          I’ve gotten that “wasted vote” lecture, too, along with “you cannot vote your conscience”. Those foolish comments really burn me up. So I go ahead and vote the Libertarian ticket anyway, and let the lecturer know that I did. Screw those people and their empty headed ignorance.

  • Polski

    If you spent any time in a Muslim country like I did, you’d realize how dangerous they are. Their attitude and beliefs are so much different than ours that there really are NO points of agreement, or of negotiation.

    • Meteorlady

      Yes – see that’s our problem. We have been so beaten down by the liberal press that we are ashamed to say we are against something like a religion. I AM NOT COMFORTABLE having them in our country. I hate that they are building their mosques in cities near me. I don’t want them, don’t trust them and am in fear that they will over populate like they are doing in Germany and do the same things here.

      It’s time for immigration reform. I mean meaningful immigration reform. we have enough people in this country already and we are loosing our way of life, our wages are coming down, or social system is over taxed and we can’t afford these people anymore.

      Sorry if that sound bigoted, but… I would gladly accept someone from Iraq if they were not a muslim cultist.

  • Meteorlady

    Jones is just as radical as most muslims. He is, however, entitled to his own options and beliefs. I was offended when the bibles were burned but I didn’t go out and riot or shoot people. If the muslins actually believe that most Americans agreed with what Jones did, they are ignorant. I don’t believe that to be true. I believe that they were whipped up by the radical leaders that they follow blindly no matter how stupid the cause.

    They are a cult… by the true definition of the word. Anyone that preaches death and destruction is a radical and not of sound mind. Sorry, but I just can’t buy that they are peaceful. Their cult preaches murder for infidels – that’s you and me folks.

    As for Jones being responsible for deaths, that like saying a pencil misspells words or a gun jumps up and kills someone with a real person pulling the trigger.

    • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

      I agree with most of what you said, but I do not agree that Jones is just as radical as most Muslims. That is the moral equivalence argument, and there is no equivalence here.

  • Brian

    These are the same ones who think it is guns who kill people…

    • http://?? Joe H.

      If guns kill people then the spoon made Rosie FAT!!!!

      • Michael J.

        Joe H,
        Great bumper sticker! But it paints a disgusting picture.

    • JC

      If guns kill people, there must be a prison full of them somewhere.
      Just curious though, anyone know how they load and cock themselves and then head out looking for trouble?

      Guns kill people…I don’t think so Brian
      and obviously neither do you. ;)

  • Anne

    OK, I get it. Islam is a religion of peace and Muslims are peaceful people, except for when they get mad, which they do if you are disrespectful of Islam. Then when they’re made it’s apparently OK for them to beat and kill people. I forget, do their supporters say it’s OK for angry Muslins to cut off heads? Or no?

    Certainly, nobody in the media would think it was OK for me to beat somebody up because he was disrespectful to Christianity. I wonder if the Muslim reporter who covered the burning was in any way disrespectful to Christianity, such as hinting that Christianity was wrong. I wonder if he was grateful not to be beaten up for such a lack of respect.

  • http://personalliberty.com Ron

    In America, you are allowed to burn our flag. It is your Constitutional right under the First Ammendment of Free Speech. Also, under that same right, is the right to burn the Koran. Mr. Jones is just exercising his First Amendment rights. He’s entitled to do this legally. I say that if the Koran causes you to go crazy and break God’s laws and man made laws, like killing innocent people, then let’s all “Burn, Baby, Burn.” This is an evil cult that is a way of life. If the Koran causes you to commit evil. Then let’s get rid of the book!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      As I have said before, rights are like muscles, you exercise them or they atropy and you lose them!!

  • http://personalliberty.com Ron

    Sooner or later, and it could be after several more 9-11 type events, we will all eventually get on board with Dr. Terry Jones. The terriorist acts will not stop until they control the world. Wake up!Islam really is of the Devil. Learn more about Mohammed, the person that Muslims are supposed to mirror. Mohammed and a loving God are complete opposites. Mohammed was a murderer, rapist, thief and a pedophile. He even had his son divorce his wife so that he (Mohammed) could have her. Islam didn’t come from God. Islam came from a self professed prophet who was evil. Dr. Jones is just ahead of his time in this regard. No PC BS for him. He is a visionary trail blazer. I thank him for drawing attention to this on-going problem that will not go away until we all wake up and confront this evil cult!

  • Jefferson’s daughter

    Jone’s symbolic action hits home an important fact:

    When someone burns a koran, muslims kill people. When someone burns a bible, nothing happens.

    Jones is protesting the bigotry and hatred toward Jews and “Infidels” that is behind the violent actions of muslims; and if you read the koran, you will understand that hating and killing Jews and non-muslims is part of Islamic ideology.

    Jones cannot be blamed for the actions of others. Muslims that kill people because they’re angry someone burned their “holy” book, are murderers.

  • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

    I was wrong to say that Islam is no more a religion than the KKK because it does meet the basic requirements of being a religion.

    Note to wannabee political/terrorist organizations: First form a religion. It will confuse your adversaries while you are using enslavement, torture, and murder to control the world.

    • JC

      Well said.

  • 45caliber

    The Muslims tend to fight – period. If no one else is around they will fight each other.

    The original split between the Sunni and the Shites was when Mohommed died. He had only daughters. One group decided they wanted to promote his nephew to the spot and the other side wanted to select the most holy man for it. The nephew lost and moved to Turkey. He then started the Assassins as an attempt to force the rest to obey him or be killed. Later, his entire line was exterminated by the Mongols – but that hasn’t stopped the fighting between them at all. In fact, many fueds are over things that happened as much as a thousand years ago.

    Our best bet would be to simply pull out and let them fight each other. Sooner or later (probably much later) the survivors might learn to live and let live.

    • Kate8

      45 – God told us, when Ishmael was sent from Abraham’s camp, that his descendents would be forever warring tribes, and would always be a thorn in the side of the Earth.

      Another prophecy come true.

  • Jeffrey

    Anne had a very good point.The whole thing in a nutshell is Muslim have no respect for the bible or Christianity, (try taking a bible into one of their countries) You and your bible might not make it out. As Christians we recognize that the bible is the inspired word of God but if you look for him there you won’t find him, it tells you how to find Him. It is not in our nature to kill people who abuse the bible. Extreme Muslims on the other hand are looking for any excuses to kill anyone who doesn’t believe the way they do, and if it wasn’t burning their bible then it might be the length of your dress, laughing near a mosque or telling someone Jesus loves them. All of those will get you killed over there. What the pastor did wasn’t too smart, but they would of found another excuse to kill. It’s in their nature and their bible.

    • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

      “Extreme Muslims” do the heavy lifting. Moderate Muslims support them.

  • JC

    “…clear evidence that his actions have led to multiple murders and widespread violence in the Middle East… (Jones’s actions have) been directly responsible for a wave of violence that began last night and has left 30 people dead…”
    ———————————————————————

    It was definately in poor taste to burn someone’s Holy Book.
    But murder is murder and these barbarians are exactly that, barbarians. I don’t advocate provoking anyone and I don’t advocate violence, but I’ve had it with the religion of peace and the good Pastor could use a shot in the mouth as well.

  • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

    What he should have done was toss it into a fire that was roasting a hog.

    • CurtisS

      Nice touch… I would have settled for bacon.

    • Carlucci

      You got it – !

      Has anyone ever seen the video where someone tossed a big pile of Qurans into a pig pen? Word has it that the mooslim community went postal.

      Mark my words – Monsieur et Mademoiselle Couchon are our new best friends!

  • chuckb

    how ridiculous we are, people insulting the guy in florida for burning the qur’an. we cow tow to the ignorance of the muslims. if i have it straight these goat herders are killing our soldiers every chance they get and throw in a few civilians and it’s not over a book being burned. they kill because they believe in a murderous religion or cult would be better name. they want the world to live under sharia law, they will continue to kill even if the que’an isn’t burned, you can thank the media for egging them on. if they kill any of our citizens over such a ridiculous thing then we should retaliate in the same way by wiping out a village of these ignorant savages. if they kill their own then we should burn more books.

    • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

      Amen!

  • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

    Pastor Terry Jones is a patriot fighting against an evil force, and he needs our help.

  • http://n/a John Beach

    The accusations and reasoning which posit some cause-and-effect relationship between remote Muslim-world mayhem and the burning of a copy of the Koran would also assert that I am just as guilty as Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination of John F. Kennedy in 1963. I am sure that everyone sees the connection. He was catholic, I am protestant and the difference made the difference. Enough already! Whatever else Islam may be, it is completely foreign to the western mind and its fundamental teachings are in opposition to those of Christianity. Given this difference, and in valuing our differences, it is logical that we maintain a respectful distance and verify before we trust.

  • Carol

    This man needs attention so he got it and I hope he is happy I know it is NOT his fault what happened but he didn’t mind causing a big problem so for me enjoyed what the end result was.

    I guess if he can’t get attention he feels he needs this the attention he enjoys receiving.

    • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

      So someone standing up to oppose evil is doing it for attention? BS

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Poor,
        stop and reconsider. If he just burned the book and got no attention, would you know about it?? would you have the ability to voice your disgust at the muzzies? Yes, he did it for attention, and for good reason!!

  • Frank

    Pastor Terry Jones is no more responsible for than the murders and violence than you or I. These evil, non-human, islamists have been vicious for centuries. Terry Jones has more fortitude than most of the whining, complacent American public and should be applauded by true believers in Christ for his passion. Wake up Christians, the coming of our Lord is near and you will either stand or deny. I stand with Terry.

  • Gordon in Texas

    Amen Ben. While we in the West are beating ourselves on the head with sticks, the peace-loving muslims in the Middle East and North Africa are handing out the sticks. No, better yet, they’re selling us the sticks…and we’re buying them at retail.

  • http://! Angel Wannabe

    Good article, and another example of truth tossing!_Something the left and they’re cohorts are good at. The violent Rath of the Islamofascists, has nothing to do with book burning!__But everything to do with completely doing away with the western way of life!__Sadly our Leftists and those who hate what we stand for(commies, socialist and what have you), are right in there with them too.

    I can’t imagine being so hatefully obsessed by the Way of Life” of another country, that it causes some of the people to give they’re lives in suicide attacks, thinking they will somehow stop it. I can’t imagine being that wrapped up in another country across the globe! I guess I could, if were trying to rule the world!?

    I think its safe to assume, THAT this is what indoctrination to the extreme looks like. Passed down from Generation to Generation, almost like I would pass Grandmas Apple Pie Recipe to My Daughter, so too, hatred gets passed.

    I liken indoctrination, to having a fight with a sibling as teens, and one or both parties never say, I’m sorry. Ya go your separate ways, grow up and marry, and each begins to tell the tale of what happened to they’re respective spouses. In good faith, each sides with the spouse, until they too, get caught up in the friction. Kids are born and eventually ask “why don’t we talk to Aunt or Uncle, so and so” and the story begins again, (and as time passes stories always are added to). The kids see the friction, and faithfully each side with they’re parents, and the friction continues_ Thus another Generation of hate is born_-Quite sadly, this generation isn’t fully aware of what started the friction in the first place, because they weren’t even born yet.
    Indoctrination__ a lie told over and over again, until you finally succumb, and believe the lie to be the truth.
    Where in the hell will this end?

  • CurtisS

    That’s exactly what an Islamic madrassa is… an indoctrination center for young muslims. The fundamentalist madrassas wrap teach the Q’uran while simultaneously preaching hatred for the infidel, of which the US is the great Satan. Tell the lie often enough to a young mind and it becomes the truth… a sick perverted truth that will strap a bomb to itself and blow-up innocent people.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Curtis S, it makes no difference wether we as Christian Americans believe in the quran or not, Islam does, and like I said above__ they take it seriously enough to kill for it. Our God, the God of Abraham, doesn’t require his people to kill infidels.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        gel Wannabe,
        Yes, but he DOES give us free will! My free will says I will defend me and mine to my last breath!! Thanks to Uncle Sam, I know how to do it very well!!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Angel, sorry about that my puter keeps dropping the first few letters lately and I don’t know why!!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            JOeh, no probs_ sticky keys?? lol

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          JoeH, you got it!, I’d never start anything,I’ll walk away from confrontation_ but if someone else fires the first shot, all hell will break loose!

  • jopa

    Jeryl You claim the Jews are persecuted all over the world but rarely take a life.I must agree however they have the American public hoodwinked and we have to fight their wars.I would say eighty percent of the hatred towards America is because of our support of Israel so don’t try and tell me how peace loving they are compared to America.Israel wouldn’t exist today if it weren’t for the United States so you can just take your yamaka and stick it where the sun don’t shine.Have a good day.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      jopa, don’t confuse the real Jews with the Zionists, Zionists may go buy a Jewish name, but are not always a “True Jew”.

      • Karolyn

        And what is a “true Jew?”

        • CarlM

          And where do you go to ‘buy a Jewish name’?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            carlm, Oh my_Pleased to meet you, are you the new spelling police??!!!!

          • CarlM

            C’mon Angel… it IS funny. It’s funny because that one extra letter totally changed the meaning of your sentence, in a humorous way. That’s all, no need to be offended, that wasn’t my intent.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            No Probs Carl, I can get a lil’ p*ssy if I take a comment wrong!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            K, In my Opinion, a true Jew is one of Jewish Lineage__Read for yourself about it_-Then You decide what’s true or not.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            CarlM,
            Yup, she sure can!!! I’ve seen her take bigger guys than you off at the knees!!! That’s one of the reasons I post to her!! Protection!!!LOL!

          • Kate8

            Carlucci – Thanks. I’ll check out that book.

            Another good one is “Here Comes Ishmael”, written by a former Muslim, now Christian. He goes into God’s purpose for the Islamic peoples.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          K, Go read about the Zionists, you won’t believe me anyway.

          • Karolyn

            Seriously, I just want to know what a “true Jew” is.

          • Kate8

            karolyn – I would say that a true Jew is a descendant of one of the original 12 Tribes, carrying that bloodline.

            I suppose there are those who’ve adopted the faith and practice Judaism. They would be true Jews, also.

            Zionists are descended of Edomites and are secular. They began with Amsel Bauer, who changed his name to Rothschild (red shield, which displays the Star of David in red instead of blue), establishing the House of Rothschild. The NWO elites all gather under this unbrella.

            They are mainly worshippers of Lucifer. They have mostly Jewish names, but are definitely not “true Jews”.

          • Carlucci

            Kate8 – Thank you – ! I was wondering when someone on this blog would explain the difference between a “true jew” versus a zionist, using the tribe of Edom as an example. Have you ever read that book “Who is Esau Edom” by Charles A. Weisman? That book really opened my eyes.

          • Jay

            Seriously, I just want to know, what is a true American?

        • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

          Karolyn, Sure not a Sammy Davis JR.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            WIA< ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

  • DaveH
    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Daveh, Damn good link and sooooo true!

    • JeffH

      DaveH, good one…I bookmarked it.

  • chuckb

    karolyn, a true jew is one that talks you out of your last dollar.

    • http://deleted Claire

      chuckb—Good one!

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