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The Avaricious Progressive Homo Sapiens

July 5, 2011 by  

The Avaricious Progressive Homo Sapiens

Americans are easy prey when it comes to political distraction debates. The National Labor Relations Board’s outrageous attempt to block Boeing from opening a new plant in South Carolina is a distraction. Proposed card-check legislation is a distraction. Our obsessive meddling in Middle Eastern countries is a distraction.

All these are important issues, but they are merely subcategories of the foundational issue that Americans should be focused on: loss of freedom. In a truly free society, none of these issues would even arise, because they are outside the scope of human freedom.

Unfortunately, we are being cleverly engineered into social-justice automatons by left-wing zealots who run Atlas Shrug-like bureaucracies such as the Environmental Protection Agency, the NLRB and the Department of Education, to name but a few of our worst enemies from within.

The antithesis of freedom is communism. Karl Marx and his lackey benefactor, Friedrich Engels, firmly believed that violent revolution was the only way to bring about pure communism, and that such a revolution was possible only where capitalism existed. Capitalism, they insisted, was necessary in order to create a large financial disparity between workers and the privileged class.

I’m still baffled as to why Marx and Engels would want to increase the income disparity between the classes, only to rectify the disparity through violent revolution. It sounds like angry, left-wing mischievousness to me. Perhaps it was based on their knowledge of the utter failure of the French Revolution, which had led only to mob violence, unthinkable human carnage and, ultimately, a Napoleonic dictatorship.

The fact is that there has never been a communist revolutionary threat in capitalistic societies such as Japan, Taiwan or Hong Kong (before it came under the rule of mainland China). The most notable communist revolutions have occurred in Russia, China, Vietnam and Cuba, none of which could have been considered capitalist countries at the time. Thus, Marx and Engels would have considered the United States to be a perfect crucible for testing their convoluted class warfare theories.

Of course, only naïve dreamers believe in the communist fairy tale that under communism, the State will eventually “wither away,” because there will be so much of everything for everybody that government will no longer be necessary. But I do believe that Marx and Engels were onto something in their belief that socialism would precede communism. In fact, they referred to socialism as a “transitional stage of society” between capitalism and communism.

Nevertheless, here in the United States, we have long suffered from the delusion that “European-style socialism” is a nice, peaceful, cradle-to-grave compromise between capitalism and communism. Over the past several decades, elitists on both the right and the left have come to believe that European society was static, and that so long as European countries kept their redistribution-of-wealth programs finely tuned, capitalists would go right on producing enough to support the parasitic masses.

What they did not take into account, however, was a crucial factor known as human nature. Homo sapiens — particularly its progressive subspecies — is, by nature, an avaricious creature. Worse, the more goods and services a man acquires without work, the more avaricious he becomes. In fact, the human appetite for wealth without work is insatiable.

The result is that when producers can no longer create enough wealth to appease the voracious appetites of the masses, those on the receiving end become increasingly upset. That’s why the riots we have witnessed in Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy are not mysterious events. On the contrary, they were predictable decades ago.

If a man has spent his whole life believing it is his right to retire at age 58 and someone else’s obligation to support him in his retirement in the lifestyle to which he has become accustomed, he is incapable of comprehending that he must work until — Gasp! — age 60.

It was just as predictable that the rioting would come to the United States. Madison, Wis.; Indianapolis; Columbus, Ohio; and other State capitals are but a mild preview of what the United States can expect once the invisible depression becomes visible even to those who are still in a Keynesian coma.

With the coming debt-ceiling increase, no cutbacks in store for Social Security or Medicare, and a majority of politicians unwilling to make serious spending cuts in other unConstitutional, redistribution-of-wealth programs, my view of what’s on the near horizon is pretty clear. I see the (admitted) unemployment rate at 25 percent or more, housing prices collapsing at least another 50 percent, the Dow Jones industrial average free-falling several thousands of points in a single day and inflation rising to 30 percent, 40 percent or perhaps even higher.

All of which would set the stage for the cherished uprising Marx and Engels so passionately longed for — and that Barack Obama and his Marxist pals believe they are near to achieving. The reason the United States has been able to avoid violent revolution until now is because even through the eras of the most left-leaning Presidents and Congresses of the past 100 years, there was always enough pushback to keep capitalism alive. But that pushback has been rapidly declining, and now comes from only 50 percent or less of the population.

Ironic, isn’t it? Marx and Engels believed capitalism was necessary in order to create more wealth disparity. And they were right. Capitalism does create disparities in wealth. But the nature of the system is that it creates more wealth for those on the lowest rung of the income ladder than any other system, so income and wealth disparities (while interesting phenomena for academic eggheads to ponder) are irrelevant. The only thing that’s relevant is how well off each individual is in absolute terms — not in comparison to others.

The bottom line is that without capitalism, there is no such thing as prosperity for the masses. And without freedom, capitalism, by definition, cannot exist, because it is nothing more than a subcategory of freedom. Capitalism is the freedom to trade goods and services with others without interference from government.

If you agree with most of what I’ve said here, you should make it a point to vote only for those office seekers who you are convinced truly understand that our main threat is our loss of freedom. My pessimistic vision of the future would change substantially if pro-freedom types were able to win the Presidency and overwhelming majorities in both houses of Congress in 2012.

The optimistic side of me hopes it will happen, but my realistic side keeps reminding me that history has not been kind to those who put their trust in politicians.

–Robert Ringer

Robert Ringer

is a New York Times #1 bestselling author and host of the highly acclaimed Liberty Education Interview Series, which features interviews with top political, economic, and social leaders. He has appeared on Fox News, Fox Business, The Tonight Show, Today, The Dennis Miller Show, Good Morning America, The Lars Larson Show, ABC Nightline, and The Charlie Rose Show, and has been the subject of feature articles in such major publications as Time, People, The Wall Street Journal, Fortune, Barron's, and The New York Times. To sign up for his one-of-a-kind, pro-liberty e-letter, A Voice of Sanity, Click Here.

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  • karolyn

    “What they did not take into account, however, was a crucial factor known as human nature. Homo sapiens — particularly its progressive subspecies — is, by nature, an avaricious creature.”

    WRONG! Man is not avaricious by nature but has been taught to be so by society.

    • Vagabond

      as usual karolyn you are wrong again. all society has taught for years now is dependancy on government. especialy the democrats. it’s called buying votes with the tax payers money.

      • Thor

        Karolyn is incapable of conceiving the necessary ‘extension of pragmatic definition’—akin to the ‘suspension of disbelief’ necessary to see Barack Obama as a qualified candidate for President. Most competent psychologists view avarice as an extension of the very solipsistic self-centeredness we are all born with. The only thing ‘taught by society’ is one of two ways to achieve or satisfy it: one can produce it for himself or one can depend on the state to provide its fodder for her—because she deserves it as an entitlement just for existing.

        • ralph

          O’Bama was the pick of John Edwards and Ted Kennedy not right thinking people.They stabbed Hillary in the back so much for party unity and helping the front runner.Karolyn a thinker with a brain and not a party line idiot.ED???

          • denniso

            Karolyn is right.Humans,in some societies,are taught to be greedy and selfish. We only evolved to a ‘higher’ level because of communalism,where families,tribes and villages worked together for the common good,as opposed to this absurd idea of extreme independence that is in fashion among the right. And freedom? The right wants us to think there is some pure and absolute ‘freedom’,and that we are losing most of it because of progressives and Obama,the wanna be dictator. Freedom has never been and will never be absolute,and the trick for any democracy is to find the reasonable balance between individual freedom and responsibility to the group,or tribe.Ask most rightwingers if they believe in the freedom of adults to eat or smoke a common weed, and see what they have to say about ‘freedom’. Ask most of them if they believe in the freedom for a woman to control her own body,watch them backtrack again. Ask them if freedom includes the right for every citizen to stay alive by having access to basic medical care. No, their idea of freedom doesn’t include the ‘right to life’ for millions of living,breathing people already born.

          • independant thinker

            The inborn nature of the human animal is to be self centered and seek to insure ones own survival. Some are more agressive in that endevor and some are more passive. As humans became more community oriented they learned to repress the individual instinct for survival in the interest of the survival of the community.

          • Pete

            I wouldn’t survive in a socialistic/communistic society. People generally consider me as an “underman” who isn’t as “evolved” as they are.

            I’m kind of use to it now. I really don’t like the “tribe” because the “common good” means Pete is going to end up being taken advantage of ..

            That’s been my experience.

            It’s getting harder to survive these days. One big mistake is trusting your fellow American – some individuals ( like me ) can’t do that anymore. My fellow American has put these politicians in office, these politicians are making me a slave to the “tribe”…

            So to HELL with the TRIBE, I WANT TO LIVE !!!

        • eddie47d

          The author says communism can only be brought to being by violent revolution. That is probably true but our country was born by violent revolution also. We also have commentators who say the “Constitution needs to be restored by violent revolution”/the shedding of blood from time to time.It’s also hard to tell if our violent Civil War did more harm than good. It certainly wasted lives and kept us divided for decades after the War

          • Kate8

            eddie – Well, I guess you can fight and die for the cause of freedom and justice, or you can fight and die for nothing.

          • karolyn

            Or you can choose not to fight.

          • Jana

            karolyn,
            That’s what the Jews did during the Holocaust and they died.

          • karolyn

            We all gotta go sometime! :-)

          • 45caliber

            karolyn:

            If you do not choose to fight you will be either dead or a slave. I’d prefer to go down fighting myself. Everyone to his own. I do know I’ve heard several progressives state that they would prefer slavery to dying but that is their choice.

            I agree with Hemingway who once said, “There are many things worse than dying while fighting for freedom. And if you don’t fight, you’ll learn what every one of those things are.”

          • eddie47d

            You are a unique man Caliber for I have never heard anyone say that they would rather be a slave than dead. Few slaves are ever given the opportunity to fight back and if they do they are usually killed anyway. Spartacus was an exception but he too had a glorious death.

          • Kate8

            karolyn – My post had context in reply to eddie. He was equating the death toll to bring in communism with the death toll of the Revolutionary War.

            And it’s true…you don’t have to fight. You can just roll over and let someone else call the shots for your life. Which is what liberals do, anyway.

          • eddie47d

            So many assumptions Kate and so little time. Must be rough wielding that hammer trying to clock all of us Liberals. We all feel like bent nails but at least we don’t break. Ouch! See you later,gator.

          • Jana

            I will go down fighting!

          • Kate8

            Oh, eddie, you are just sooooo clever.

          • Robert Smith

            45 says: ” I do know I’ve heard several progressives state that they would prefer slavery to dying but that is their choice. ”

            To fight another day.

            BTW, doesn’t that there brutal christian god favor slaves? Didn’t he help free them in Egypt?

            There was a special catichsm for slaves in America.

            Just to die because of some misguided heroics or inspiration is a waste of a fighter.

            Like George Patten said (approximatey), “You make that SOB die for his country.”

            Rob

      • EddieW

        The bigger problem is, we are becoming Communist City by City…it’s called Agenda 21 and run by NGO’s…Non governmental Organizations!! My City just bought into it and is paying dues!!! Pleasesee this video, and Pass it on widely…we need to get moving to stop this incredible evil….You have to fix the (dot)!!
        http://www.youtube(dot)com/watch?v=51iAilbjy8o&feature=player_embedded

        • Kate8

          EddieW – You are so right. Agenda 21 is bringing about the communist/corporatist global government system incrementally and by stealth. Which is how this administration works, because if they did it in the open most of the people would reject it.

          People aren’t paying enough attention to this. Agenda 21 is a beast – a veritable wolf in sheep’s clothing. It appears to be about conservation and the environment, but it is really about absolute control of everything we do. It governs anthing that has “environmental impact”, which is EVERYTHING. What O’care doesn’t regulate, Agenda 21 does.

          Have you gotten your smartmeter yet? Has your local water company been bought out by global interests yet? And that’s just the beginning. They may decide you are occupying too much space for your needs.

          Anything that requires deception to gain footing can’t be good.

          • Robert Smith

            Kate syas: “Which is how this administration works, because if they did it in the open most of the people would reject it.”

            That is EXACTLOY what the extreme religious reich has been doing for decades…

            School boards, zoning commissions, and corrupting organizations like the NRA and BSA.

            But folks are beginning to see that now.

            Rob

        • eddie47d

          Agenda 21 sounds omnimous but as the world’s resources dwindle(farm-able land,depleted oceans,maybe fewer trees and less fresh water)the powers to be will step in and take control.There could also be food riots and other calamities too. China and India have reached saturation point awhile back. We have room to grow but these other nations will be fighting for the same resources.Will we be wise with our land or as reckless as we sometimes are. Monsanto controls most of our seed products and could have a say in all that we eat.Oil is available but not as easy to get.Electric power will never be cheap again if we don’t have alternate sources to back up the grid. Will we be prepared to face these new challenges if not then agenda 21 will come sooner than later.

          • Kate8

            eddie – Whether resources are running out is debatable. Many scientists have come out and said that oil is, in fact, renewing all the time. It is in corporate interests to declare it a dwinding fossil fuel because they use it to control us.

            In any case, many have invented ingenious ways to produce endless energy, and the PTB quash any attempt to develop and market them. It’s CONTROL they’re after, and abundant energy from alternate sources would take it out of their hands.

            Agenda 21 is a control grid, giving us even less power over our own lives. There is simply no defense for it.

          • Marty S.

            Eddie, Agenda 21 is about population control and resource acquisition and it will matter not wether you are a liberal, conservative or something in between politically as everyone gets a free forced train ride to the camp that is not yet full. They may try to paint a rosey picture for you but try to consider what the PTB are trying to achieve long term.

          • independant thinker

            ” Many scientists have come out and said that oil is, in fact, renewing all the time.”

            Many years ago I read a short article that told of a group of scientist diving in the Gulf of California and they found drops of oil suspended in the water. Their conclusion was the particular algie in the water were somehow forming the oil as best as I recal. Wish I could remember where I read it.

    • Doc Sarvis

      Correct again karolyn.
      And this society has more recently increased its rewards to the top 1-2% while bleeding the rest of the population.

      • http://naver sook young

        That is not true Doc. Can you please cite soem sources that would support what you just said? Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        • eddie47d

          Sook hasn’t been paying attention in how the “upper crust” has amassed great fortunes while the well being of the rest of society has fallen on hard times. This disparity has been speaking loud and clear.

          • Push comes to shove

            Apparently you and Doc need to read the story again.

            “Ironic, isn’t it? Marx and Engels believed capitalism was necessary in order to create more wealth disparity.”

            It is our leaders in Washington who have created this disparity with thier laws. Do not look to the rich to solve this problem, look to the elections to oust these fiscally UNconservative BOZOS who created this situation. Even if the rich give up all thier wealth to the government we will still have a debt problem because the BOZOs in Washington will still see an open checkbook.

          • eddie47d

            I will agree that Washington has an open checkbook and does misuse it. The author did say some want “wealth without work” and that describes way to many entrepreneurs of today. Wall Street is a prime example where a little knowledge can make you millions and even billions with little effort. There are numerous work at home schemes also that make a few rich with out putting much “work” into it. Honest people can’t compete with all the schemers and scammers. There is only so much money to go around and “good” companies have to play dirty to even be competitive.

          • 45caliber

            eddie:

            So they have. Jealous? Greedy?

          • independant thinker

            “Wall Street is a prime example where a little knowledge can make you millions and even billions with little effort.”

            Just because a person excercises his/her brain doing research and then investing wisely with the knowledge gained does not mean he/she has put in “little effort”.

            I have been able to invest a small amount of money in the stock market recently and since I did my research before hand all my investments have made me money from incresed stock prices and some additionaly by dividends.

            I guess in eddies eyes I am the scum of the earth like those he is so fond of bashing because they are rich from doing the same thing.

          • paxcat

            So, Eddie, explain how come Nancy Pelosi, one of yours, amassed over a 62% increase in her net worth since 2009 when as you say the remaining people have hit hard times. Considering she would be considered one of the “filthy rich,” why isn’t she being less avaricious?

          • Kate8

            paxcat – Don’t expect a response to this one from the Left.

            I have asked this very same thing many times. The Leftists simply cannot compute that their own are the wealthiest of the elite, and that their wealth comes from the very system they claim to abhor.

            It’s staggering how they are so blind to the avarice of their own. For some reason, they actually believe that the likes of Pelosi have the best interests of the common man at heart.

            Gag. Barf. Retch.

          • Eddie47d

            Good grief Kate I have answered that several times. If Pelosi is ripping us off in any business adventure I would go after her too. You can like or dislike her politically so bring up the facts about her business dealing on another day. I’m off to dinner. Adios

        • Bud Tugly

          In 1955 the average CEO made 35 times the salary of the average worker. Today it is over 185 times. The was a time when leaders of business and industry were about building sustaining entities that included a commitment to employees and community.

          Today it seems that they are more about the deal that brings the biggest personal gain by crunching numbers… performance on the job does not seem to play into it in every case. How much is “earned” versus how much is gleaned is open to debate.

          Trickle down economics has long been debunked, even by the originator of the theory.

          • eddie47d

            The “FIX” has been in for CEOs for countless years and they are well entrenched.Yet the author dares to slam the “parasitic masses”who have to take it on the chin from these robber barons.Fair and honest salaries? Never has been and some make 400% above the average worker in their company. It’s Capitalism run amuck.

          • whisperingsage

            When I was Nursing assistant in the 1980′s making just above minimum wage, I was able to save $10,000 at the age of 20 and put a down payment on 80 acres of land and have it paid off before I was 23 (total cost of land $21,000.) If I were in the same situation today, I could not do it. Property is so high and minimum wage is only about doubled since then (I was getting paid $3.20 and hour starting and after 8.5 yrs was getting $5.65). So here I was among the lowest rung of society and was able to buy my own land. I was NOT a Republican, neither did I have any sort of grasp on conservatism, I was a true liberal Democrat ruled by my emotions. I will not say I am a great Reagan fan even today, because I remember the illegal wars he had us in then, but I survived and succeeded in his economy. Even though it was Reagan that raised taxes on the poor( the old tax tables had no taxes imposed until $3000 income. It changed to almost $100 income after Reagan.)
            The William Bradford Pilgrims learned the lesson of greed and learned to use it wisely. Yes, even the Pilgrims had greed. So who here is so holy they don’t have greed? Here is what they learned. When they tried to have communalism (the ideal of Communism, so they say)they started out trying to share the land equally, and trying to share farming duties equally. Some discovered they could shirk and let others do most of the work and still get their equal share of food. William Bradford had to make a change so it was that everyone would get their own plot and be responsible for their own plot, and keep all they grew. That was the use of greed and it worked far better. Because they fully owned their plots, they fully cared for their own food production. It was in their own best interest to work.

          • lkar

            Though I agree with your emotional pleas. The problem still falls back to political corruption. The CEO’s know there is a game and it is called lobby and donate to the right funds/causes. Their reward is not on performance. Shareholders do not care. It is the bottom line. Good CEO’s know how to work the system (whether it is tax loop holes or new regulations that help there firm) they can boast of increased revenue. By the way it is the politicains that write both the tax code and the regulations (or deregulation). Where exactly do you think all that governemtn money goes?
            It is human nature to be selfish. Just watch a bunch of young children in a daycare. Nobody taught them to be selfish!

          • Former walmart person

            Our system today is not pure capitalism. Pure capitalism would mean that mom and pop small businesses are held to the exact same standards as mega corporations which is not the case. Many big businessses exist today precisely because of special favors from government which of course do not apply to small business owners. Under true capitalism, you have trickle down economics, because if I created a business and felt that I should only make lets say 20 times my workers as CEO versus another corporation where the CEO makes 185 times the worker pay, then where do the workers head to? Why my business of course because I make less money and give more to my workers. The problem with our facist system today is as a big business, I can afford to make 185 times my workers because I have lobbied government to do my bidding and pass laws that oppress any business that seeks to rise up against mine. Get it?

            Its like the proverbial chicken and the egg scnenario. When a big business lobbies congress to pass a law, who is really in control of our government? The lobbying corporation or congress?

          • JeffH

            lkar, I agree with your comment…without government support/corruption there would be a shortage of crony-capitalists.

            Government grows as corruption flows.

          • karolyn

            Ikar – Have those children in the daycare not been subject to the people around them since their birth and even prior? They are influenced by society from the day they are born.

          • Jay

            Karolyn: They are influenced by society from the day they are born.

            Karolyn, you mean they’re not “Born that way”?

      • DaveH

        As usual, the Progressives base their views of Hoping and Dreaming instead of reality.
        While you are looking to the Socialists in the Democratic Party to bring the rich down to your level, Doc, the reality is that they are working hand in hand with them to fleece the average taxpayer. The Leaders are making fools of the Liberal followers.
        Doc, read the book “The Big Ripoff, How Big Business and Big Government Steal Your Money” by Timothy P. Carney (which was written before Obama, by the way) and be the first Liberal on your block to gain some sense.
        There is only one way to bring back the American Dream and that is to get Government out of our Marketplace. Big Business hates the vagaries of the competitive Free Market, and the Leaders (both Republicans and Democrats) have worked hand in hand with Big Business to keep the average citizen ignorant of that reality.

        • s c

          DaveH, I’d tell an ultraliberal progressive to read Murray Rothbard’s What Has Government Done to Our Money? It’s short, it’s to-the-point and it explains MUCH in a hurry.
          We have to assume that a progressive can read or wants to read without having to be told to do it (actually, that assumes too much) – [kindly remember what happened when Queen Nancy said 'we have to pass it to see what's in it.' Has ANYONE in Washington read that DAMNED thing yet?].
          Remember, a progressive thinks with his/her/its emotions. Facts are to be avoided. And, only leaders are good enough to ‘think.’

          • Dan az

            sc
            The Progressives, have this silly notion that they know what’s best for Americans and thus, they believe that the Constitution is old and tired and requires revamping. Progressives adhere to the “Constitution is a living and breathing document” philosophy. For them, this philosophy justifies the need for electing activist judges so they can bypass the rule of law.

          • 45caliber

            Dan:

            If you don’t have some set standards – call it law or religion or whatever – to keep things stable then you have no standards at all. Then you have chaos. Everyone decides what is best for him alone and go to extreme lengths to achieve it. The problem with the liberals is that they have decided what the new standards should be – and they change as the liberals desire – and want everyone else to adheire to them. Just not them. It’s like the Communists in USSR. Everyone ELSE had to live on set incomes; everyone ELSE had to buy from the local stores and hope there was enough food available; everyone ELSE had to have poor clothing, poor housing, poor transportation (if you could afford it at all), etc.

            When someone tells you that they will decide what standards are followed on a day to day basis, they are totalitarian. It’s like the boy who wants to make a run every time he is up to bat – and he changes the rules to insure he does while making sure no one else is allowed to do the same. And if they won’t agree to let him, he wants to take the ball and go home so no one else can play.

          • eddie47d

            Your crony capitalists are the ones without standards and go to extreme lengths to achieve their wealth. Irregardless of how it effects our economy or how they come about this wealth. Their desires are paramount and the nation and Constitution comes last. They never lived on a set income and they don’t have a clue how everyone else lives.They all want to be your boy up at bat wanting more than their share and bending the rules to get there.

          • Kate8

            eddie – How do you explain that the communist and other despotic elite always live the wealthiest of lives, while the masses live in desperate poverty across the board, with no hope of ever doing better?

            Capitalism has been intentionally corrupted to bring us to where we are now, on the verge of complete loss of freedom and total control by those same obscenely wealthy elite who decry capitalism and espouse corporatist communism, or whatever name they have for it.

            The poor have always been around since day 1, because humanity is made up of all kinds of people with all kinds of talents, abilities, desires and obstacles. Life was meant to be infinite experience, not universal sameness. There have never been guarantees, and never will be.

            To control how people live can only be tyranny, with much suffering and severe consequences for alternate thought. No independent thinking can be tolerated, as man cannot be allowed to evolve beyond his shackles. Man’s inherent spirit of freedom cannot be allowed to take root, or there will always be some who will find a way to throw off the chains necessary to maintain the status quo.

            The best man can ever hope to achieve is FREEDOM. Sane people will choose freedom above all else, even if it means struggle. No one else should have the power to choose how our lives will be lived.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, Kate8, Dan az, sc, 45…all well said.

          • DaveH

            Good suggestion, SC.
            And Eddie, where do you get that “your Crony Capitalists”? I think most of the people on this board would agree that Crony Capitalism is wrong. They get special advantages from Government over competitors just as the Unionists get special advantages from Government over their competitors (replacement workers). Both are morally wrong. We should have Free Markets where no advantages are bestowed on special interests by the Force of Government.

          • eddie47d

            The Kate’s and Calibers and a few others are so busy chasing communism that they ignore the crony capitalists that keep sneaking in. While they are guarding the front door the crony’s are plying their trade through the back door and get a free pass.

          • Kate8

            eddie – You are entirely missing the point.

            Just who do you think these elites are, the ones who are assuming control over America and the world?

            None other than these same wealth and power obsessed CRONY CAPITALISTS turned control freak corporatists.

            Wake up! Those power mongers who are bringing in the NWO Utopia hold all of the world’s wealth, and they don’t intend to share any of it with us. In fact, they intend to extract from us what little we’ve managed to garner in our lives.

            You think they want to better our lot through corporate communism? If so, then why don’t they spread their own wealth around and live on the same scale as we do?

          • eddie47d

            I love your last sentence. It was marvelous darling.

        • Wayne937

          Whisperingsage, you just wrote a brilliant post. We need to look out for ourselves first by being independent and having self fullfillment. There are several on this forum who believe we should help keep the masses, amd let them sit on their butt while the rest of us do the work. We need more self reliance that what the Liberal, Commonmist and Socialist believe in. Your are dead on with you analysis.

      • Dagney

        Higher taxes to the “rich” will help you how? LOL! Not at all! It will destroy many job opportunities. So, why do you whine so much? Jealous? Yes, that mean old human nature thing called “avariciousness” in it’s purer form on display right here in the comments of karolyn and Doc Sarvis. Such admirable qualities!!! LOL

        Here’s a question for everyone…. FREE? Or, EQUAL? Everyone needs to choose. Commies never talk about freedom. They sure do talk a LOT about EQUALITY. Freedom is possible. It was a fact (with some slight adjustments needed here and there, that’s what the Amendment process was put in our Constitution for by those genius founding fathers) for the first 150 years of this country. The last hundred years, our freedoms have been whittled away by the REgressives. None of us are born equal and none of us die equal. We each have our INDIVIDUAL traits. EQUALITY DOES NOT EXIST. I may be better at math than my neighbor. Is that a problem? Only to REGRESSIVES. Point is, equality is a delusional pipe dream and if someone fights for equality and says you must give up something to achieve this equal outcome, they are a TYRANT and want to opress you. It is as simple as that.

      • http://aol nora halpert

        Wrong again…………look at Greece. People are civil one on one in a group they are a mob.

    • http://fernhart.com Marianne

      Dear Karolyn,

      What is society BUT the population of “Homo Sapiens”? Sooo we
      teach OURSELVES TO BE AVAARICIOUS? lol!

      • karolyn

        True – However, if man sought the truth that resides in spirit, he could shake off the trappings and influences of society. Those who are truly free are those who do not follow the dictates of society.

        • http://naver sook young

          Actually they are the ones that follow God and Jesus. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          • DaveH

            Sook,
            Belief in God or Jesus does not guarantee morality. My brother, for instance, is Christian (Catholic to be specific), goes to church, and even chants along with the priest. But the guy is a full-blown Sociopath who has taken bribes, willfully damaged neighbor’s property for personal gain, lied constantly, and taken many other self-centered actions in his life.
            Personally, I have known only a handful of religious people who actually follow the moral teachings of their religion as closely as I do. And I’m an Atheist. Don’t get me wrong. I do believe the religious leaders are trying to teach their followers morality. But, unfortunately, the teachings don’t take hold on most people.
            I guess what I’m trying to say in a nutshell is that religion isn’t a requirement for morality.

          • libertytrain

            Dave – You are absolutely correct. Hiding behind a delusion of being any religion and living contrary to its beliefs – no amount of “confession” will take that away if there is no real “Christian” living within your body. Christian or any religion -

          • Jana

            DaveH,
            You are so right, religion isn’t a requirement for morality.

            Being a Christian I cannot comprehend your not believing in God, but knowing God as I do I know that He allows all of us to choose for ourselves. God doesn’t force Himself on anyone, so you are perfectly well within your rights to choose Athieism.

            I also know many decent, honest, honorable,morally good, hard working people who are not Christian or religious, but they are very good people.

            You are definitely one of those very good people, and I agree with you most of the time.

            Sook Young was not being confrontational with you, she was giving her opinion to karolyn who evidently believes in a little of all religions.

          • Old Henry

            DaveH:

            Going to church does not necessarially make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car.

            A lot of folks simply go to church to make a good impression to society and the community.

            Also, remember that Satan works overtime on those who follow / try to follow God and Jesus. Those who do not are on Satan’s side to begin with and are basically on cruise control.

            It is human nature to sin.

          • Kate8

            Going through the motions does not make anyone a Christian, or anything else for that matter. I may give a friend an aspirin, but that does not make me a doctor.

            Works are not even what makes a Christian. It is what is in one’s heart, his very essence of being. Right action is a natural outflowing of what is in the heart, for better or worse.

          • 45caliber

            Kate:

            You are correct. We do not do works to be saved. We do works because our heart was changed by being saved and we wish to help others. I wish more people would realize that.

          • 45caliber

            DaveH:

            In a way you are right. You don’t need to be religious to be moral. However, all morality derives from religion. It doesn’t come from within or from some other system. Many acts we consider moral are considered by others to be weaknesses. That is one reason the terrorists consider us weak. They don’t have the same moral rules that we try to live by.

        • DaveH

          Karolyn,
          How do you square that “spirit” with your lust for other peoples’ money?

          • karolyn

            Dave – I have no “lust” for other people’s money! The only money I am owed is what I get in payment for goods or services, and I have worked since the age of 17, both for others and for myself.

          • DaveH

            If you vote for redistributionist Democrats, you are indeed lusting after other peoples’ money, Karolyn. I don’t know why that concept is so hard for you to understand. It doesn’t matter if your gang is 3 members large, or 100 million members large. If they take other peoples’ money, they are thieves.

        • http://aol nora halpert

          “dictates of society”…………to be civil is to respect the laws of that society that is civilation.

        • 45caliber

          karolyn:

          So you are saying that there should be no rules and everyone should be allowed to do as they desire? Even if it harms someone else?

          You remind me of a boy I knew in college. His argument was that everyone should always do what is best for them. If it was best that he make love to some girl, she should submit. If she didn’t, it was okay for him to force her. (I think we call that rape, don’t we?) But since it was best FOR HIM it was okay. And it didn’t matter if it was wrong for her or not. We told him that if he did, it would be best for the rest of us to hang him, so he didn’t. We set up a rule for him – don’t rape anyone. And even he lived okay after that.

          You either have rules to follow or you don’t. And the rules MUST be the same for everyone or they don’t work.

          • karolyn

            No, 45, I’m saying that if we all knew who we really are, there would be no reason for rules and laws.

          • eddie47d

            Where do you get the idea Karolyn doesn’t follow the rules? One of the main reasons our nation is in the mess it is in because a few corporations broke the rules and took advantage of others. How did Big Pharma get so entrenched and dishonest if they were playing under normal standards?

          • lkar

            Eddie, corporations didn’t break the rules. They bought a politicain (or government department head) who rewrote the rules!

          • Kate8

            karolyn – The idea of such an imaginary (and quite impossible) liberal Utopia is code for absolute control to the point where everyone is exactly the same in thought and action.

            Humanity is diverse, and man has (and always will) awaken and evolve at different rates. Maybe even some not at all. So the very idea that you could engineer such a “perfect” society is so unrealistic as to be absurd, and could only be even attempted by taking away every vestige of freedom.

            If you could but look beyond the emotional appeal of the communist seduction, into the actual mechanics of the unspeakable evil required to even attempt something that is, by nature, impossible, you would see that such things can only lead to abject misery, defeat of spirit and annihilation.

          • 45caliber

            karolyn:

            Most of us don’t know who we really are and never will. The youth never do at first. So the rules are required – not just nice to have. And the theory that if we know who we really are would eliminate any need for rules is therefore wrong simply because not everyone will know that. Further there are many people out there who know that they will use violence to take what they want from others. We call them criminals. They do know who they are – and a lack of rules only makes things easier for them.

            A young man once told me that he and his wife had decided to teach their new son nothing about violence. “And when he grows up the world will be a peaceful place,” he finished.

            I was somewhat shocked. Finally I said, “If even one person does NOT believe and teach as you do then your son will be a victim, unable to even protest as he is being taken advantage of. I plan to teach my own son to be the meanest SOB out there to insure no one does try to take advantage of him. So there goes your theory right there.”

          • karolyn

            45 – Who we really are is pure spirit. We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. The more of us that find that goodness, that remember who we are, the better the world. I know people who are raising their children that way, and they are wonderful kids and very wise for their ages. What you said about that couple’s son becoming a victim would not necessarily have to be true. We attract everything that comes into our lives, good and bad. If that child were raised in that way and grew to project only positive energy, that would be what would return to him. This is a little simplistic, but is the basic idea.

          • Jana

            kaorlyn,
            We are spirit (soul), mind and flesh. If we could make our flesh obey our spirit all of the time that would be one thing, but it is not always possible.
            Your “basic idea” is very flawed.

    • Bob Henderson

      Many years ago Admiral Rickover said man is born an ignorant, self-centered savage and it is up to us to raise him to be a human being. Unfortunately, our educational system and indulgent parents work against this plan.

    • Bob

      Karolyn: As someone suggested, you may be a conservative writing in such a way as to make lieberals look stupid. If that is the case, you are overdoing it – no one is as stupid as you are making Karolyn out to be. Anyone with an IQ higher than 10 knows that humans are, by nature, evil. Even lieberals understand that because they use the natural greed, selfishness, and laziness of humans to gain support for the programs that keep their selfish, greedy, malignant, lazy selves in power. So, rachet it down a notch or two so that “Karolyn’s” witless rants are more believable.

      • karolyn

        So sad, Bob, that you cannot entertain the thought that there could be something more than what you believe to be true. There is so much more! :-)

        • Jana

          karolyn,
          You are right. There is so much more.

          Satan offers a lot of almost right lies coated with sugar. When those of us who know the TRUTH can see these sugar coated, sneaky, slippery sloped invitations to deceptions, people like you think of us as narrow minded.
          Nope, we just choose to stick to the TRUTH.

          • karolyn

            We are both allowed our own TRUTH, which we believe according to who we are. We are both right.

          • 45caliber

            Jana: You are right. Good comment.

            karolyn: You are wrong. You are thinking in shades of gray. Everyone is partly right and everyone is partly wrong. There are too many things that are NOT in shades of gray. Pregnancy for example. You are or you aren’t. Nothing in between. Hitler may have believed it right to kill all the Jews – but it didn’t make it right to do it. There must be some sort of standards that do not change or there will be no standards at all. And without standards there can be no civilzation.

      • Dagney

        She is a bit cartoony, isn’t she? LOL

      • DaveH

        Bob,
        If you think Karolyn is the worst of the Liberals, you have been living in a cave.
        And it isn’t just the Liberals who have been taking advantage of us. The Leaders on both sides of the aisle have been enriching themselves and their Crony Capitalists at the expense of the rest of us.
        There is only one political party that understands the power of Free Markets and Individual Freedom. That is the Libertarian Party, the party of Principle:
        http://libertarianparty.org/platform

    • DaveH

      You are wrong, Karolyn. Haven’t you raised any children? Without discipline and moral teaching they would demand everything they could get their hands on. Man, by nature, is a thief. Only with education do we realize that we gain much more by respecting and working cooperatively with our fellow man.
      Progressives are people who have regressed to a more primitive state of behavior.

      • eddie47d

        “have regressed to a more primitive state” POPPYCOCK!

        • 45caliber

          eddie:

          I do understand your comment. Progressives consider themselves to be the ultimate in homo sapients. However, I tend to agree with Dave. Progressives tend to believe the best of themselves and the worst about others despite the contrary evidence that shows the opposite. (And if you want the evidence, look it up yourself.)

          • eddie47d

            You rather contradicted your 1:32 post. Then you seem to be saying you look on the good side of yourself but everyone else should be looks upon with suspicion. That is close to what you are saying about Progressives.

      • karolyn

        No, Dave, I have not raised any children but have seen 100s raised and seen what’s happened to them. I am speaking from a more metaphysical viewpoint, having studied spirituality and the theories relating to it for over 30 years.

        • 45caliber

          karolyn:

          Theories are guesses until proved to be real. Study, not matter how demanding or helpful, isn’t a good substitute for the real thing. For instance, Spock was/is considered the expert on child rearing – but he never had one of his own until he was in his sixties. Then he admitted that much of what he had preached was wrong.

          • karolyn

            This is certainly no place to get into proof of theories I ascribe to. Sufficeth to say there is scientific proof; however, no one here would believe it anyway. And it makes a lot more sense and is more logical than what many people believe. However, I believe that no one is wrong, given their beliefs and viewpoint.

          • lkar

            karolyn just summed up the problem. “I believe that no one is wrong, given their beliefs and viewpoint.” It is relative moral standards that can be “nudged” if it does not feel right. Live for the moment and not the absolute. But hey, it is a good view point if your outlook is only temporal (50 to 100 year life span). I like to think in the eternal. Since you believe I am not wrong, then you are in eternal trouble.

          • karolyn

            Well, Ikar, I believe in eternal life also. However, my belief is that the spirit never dies and can return to live in this plane again if it so wishes. If not, it can live forever in the cosmos in total freedom.

          • 45caliber

            karolyn:

            You may believe there is no one who is wrong but if so, there are also a lot of people who are not right either. Like pregnancy, there are no shades of gray. You are wrong or you are right. And no one can be right all the time – or wrong all the time.

        • DaveH

          OOOOOMMMMMM

        • http://google gary gerke

          Untilyou raise your own children, you quite frankly can have no opinion..believe it!

        • moonbeam

          “Seeing” them raised is not the same as doing it yourself, Karolyn. Seeing them raised means you stood on the sidelines and watched.

          • Kate8

            Don’t you just love the way those who have never had children are always the experts on how to do it?

          • Jana

            karolyn chose not to go through with her pregnancy.

    • LMW

      Society, is first, the family that raises you. If you are taught that hard work is its own reward and that anything worth wanting is worth waiting and working for, then greed is not as great a factor. If on the other hand, one is taught that the “government” owes one a living, and a cell phone, and a large screen t.v. then greed is a factor.

    • ralph

      Check the facts this bunch really have it wrong.Along with land barons there were American robber barons who had industry in Cuba working the people for nothing.Poorest writing yet.

    • 45caliber

      karolyn:

      You are wrong – again. All mankind want more. If they have to pay for it, they are careful to make decisions as to what they actually get. If they have more than they need, they can be generous – which is one reason we have so many people now on the dole. But they always have something they want that they plan to get as soon as they can get the money. It might be a new car, a new house, or a new Playstation game. It might be a candy bar. But they always want something else.

      Those on the dole are even more of a problem since they become convinced that they deserve to get more and more from others paying the bills as was mentioned above. In fact, many of them feel they deserve more than they are getting or want things simply to prevent those paying for them to have them too as “punishment” for working and looking down on those who don’t work.

      The elderly are the only exceptions – and only part of them are that way. They realize that they seldom have enough time to enjoy having something else new and are willing to live on just what they need. But again, even many of them are that way.

      Mr. Ringer is right in his comment. And don’t tell me you don’t want anything. I suspect that you’d be very happy if someone else would take you out to dinner, at least.

    • ValDM

      Karolyn,
      As usual, you have it wrong. Avarice has always been a problem for mankind, otherwise one of the 10 Commandments would not begin “thou shalt not COVET……..”

    • Carlucci

      karolyn – I totally disagree. I started babysitting when I was 13 years old. All you have to do is observe very small children playing in a group to know that greed and avarice is part of the human condition, it is not “learned from society”. Some kids will mind their own business and play with a toy they like, but there are always one or two kids who want all of the toys for themselves. Some animals will do the same thing. We had a darling basset hound who found a way to get in the yard next door to us, and she would bring all of the toys that belonged to the two dogs next door over to HER yard. She never played with the toys, she just wanted them for herself. And then there’s the kleptomaniac cat: http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/peninsula&id=7958889

      I have personally worked with useless people who did their best to pawn their work and responsibilities off on others, and then tried to get credit for doing the work themselves. After having observed little kids and animals behaving like greedy guts, I can honestly say that society did not teach them that kind of behavior.

      • independant thinker

        Carlucci…………You left one out that being the kid who isn’t interested in a toy until someone else picks it up and enjoys playing with it then the kid takes it for himself.

    • Robert Smith

      “Unfortunately, we are being cleverly engineered into social-justice automatons by left-wing zealots who run Atlas Shrug-like ”

      The problem isn’t clean air or help for those who need it.

      The PROBLEM with out economy are those who make money on paper without producing anything. They are LOOTING the middle class in America.

      The rich are getting richer without producing anything.

      THAT is the problem.

      Rob

      • moonbeam

        Good point and one I hadn’t considered before.

    • paxcat

      If man is not by “nature” avaricious, then why do people even need a government at all? Are you suggesting that if there was no government, then people would not be avaricious? If people are good inherently and have only other people’s best interests at heart, then they should not even need a gov’t. as they would all take care of themselves. Right?

    • Another Voice

      True, Karolyn! When man is allowed to be greedy, he will be greedy – especially if he is stronger than his neighbor. Our founding fathers assumed that they (the elite) would get the lion’s share, so they made one big mistake: they didn’t state this in the Declaration of Independence. And the members of the constitutional congress didn’t put it in the Constitution. So now we have the weak standing together to protest the greed of the strong.

      When nothing is in place to protect the weak from the strong, then the strong feel that they have the right to persecute the weak. That’s why we need SOME regulations. Otherwise, you get a situation just like our present-day America. Which is really starting to resemble France before their revolution.

    • Mark

      Karolyn,

      EVERY, absolutely EVERY human experience demonstrates that humans are selfish and evil (not usually as evil as they could be, but evil, rather than selfless, completely honest, loving, humble . . .). Your insistence to the contrary shows you are a doctrinaire humanist, impermeable to the truth even though it hits you in the face every day of your life whose motto must be; “Don’t confuse me with the facts, I’ve made up my mind.”

      • Karolyn

        Mark – You have to dig a little deeper to find the TRUTH. If you only research one side, you never have a foundation to hold up your beliefs.

  • http://www.easyinvest.co.za peter

    Excuse me Robert if I could just rephrase one of your sentences:
    The human appetite for wealth without work is insataible should read: Politicians appetite for wealth without work is insatiable. That includes their elite friends who of course are also politicians – they just go by another name, don’t they?

    • JimRed

      “Politicians appetite for wealth without work is insatiable.”

      That is a prime reason to TERM LIMIT the b@$t@rd$ out! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!

      • DaveH

        Term Limits are a placebo, a distraction. There is only one real solution, and that is voter education. We need to start with getting our children out of the Government Propaganda Schools. And then we need to do our best to educate the ignorant, heavily propagandized adults. It isn’t going to be easy, but with the Internet (if we can keep Government and their censorship out of it) I think we have a real shot at educating the adults.
        So I guess after getting our children out of the Propaganda Schools, the next most important thing is to keep Government clear away from our Internet. Do NOT let them delude us that we need them in any way to meddle with the Internet! Their offered protection from Cyber Attack, or other excuses, are just Trojan Horses to enable them to gain access to censor our communications.

        • http://none Stephen Tareila

          Voter education should be achieved by working, paying one’s own way, and paying taxes for a while. That’s why I favor some limitation on the franchise(right to vote); require either gainful employment for 3 plus years, paying real property taxes for 5 years, and attainment of age 25 or some combination of these and/or perhaps others.

  • wayne937

    Vagabond, you may as well save your typing fingers. Karolyn is a Communist Muslim Obama Supporter. Regardless of what you say, Karolyn won’t be happy until the Communist takes over this nation. I don’t wate my time on her anymore. In fact we don’t need her anyway as we are going to fire her muslim Communist idol in 2012.

    • karolyn

      Wayne – I don’t know why you guys use words like “idol” and “messiah” when referring to my or any other left leaning people’s feelings about Obama. Just because we have different views than you does not mean we idolize ANYBODY. Is that all you see? That people who do not agree with you are strictly behind the President or anybody else for that matter? Is your thinking so limited that you cannot entertain any other ideas? That people who disagree with you have to be totally supportive of the powers that be?

      • Bob

        Once again “Karolyn”, rachet down the idiocy so that you are more believable as a lieberal halfwit. You are going too far in your parody of a mindless lieberal zombie.

        • karolyn

          Would that then mean the same for you as a mindless conservative zombie?

        • Robert Smith

          Why do you keep lying about the left?

          I say things clearly and then you and others twist it 180 degrees with outright lies.

          I’ll continue to point them out real time.

          Rob

        • Dennis48e

          Bob it is not a parody.

    • eddie47d

      Listen to Wayne and Bob the twin agitators plying their slime and attaching their bitterness to everything they touch. They only prove the right have their sociopaths in the wing ready to “govern”.

      • 45caliber

        They can’t be any worse than the left wing psycos now in power. Maybe better, maybe not. But not worse.

        • Robert Smith

          Sure can. Remember the Bush years where we were lied to to get us into wars, the taxes on his rich cronies were cut (don’t tell me and the rest of us who don’t commute in jets trickel downworks).

          Rob

  • http://none Chris Allen

    I have long wondered what the voting Americans think is happening. It is as plain a the nose on their face that we are being lead down the path of destruction and no one seems to give a hoot. My wife and I have voted in every election and we vote not for party lines but for those who have never been in office and therefore not corrupted by the Washington mafia. It’t well past time for term limits to be envorced or begin impeachment proceedings against those elected officials who are selling out our country and our freedoms for the sake of their own agenda which as I see it is “How much can I get in my back pocket and to heck with anyone else.”

    On another note I fail to see why we can’t be presented with a genuine birth certificate of the man who sits in the Presidents office of the United States of America. My question is this. “Is everyone afraid of what might happen to them if they speak up for the American people and demand it?

    May God continue to bless this nation that was founded in freedom.

    Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Eph. 1:2

    Bro. Chris

    • Thinking About

      I knew there would be those to continue to say Obama was born somewhere other than USA even after he provided his long form birth certificate and you are proof of that. Thereist be something useful you could be spending your time on besides to continue with this outrageous and untruthful story. Let it go.

      • Robert Smith

        But then he’s going to have to deal with REAL issues like how the middle class has been sold down the river by the very rich.

        I can’t understand why anyone sticks up for them, particularly when it’s against their own self interest.

        Those entramanours are stealing America and selling it to China.

        Rob

    • Another Voice

      And I thought that Obama would have the stones to stand up for the American people and call out the bullsh—-rs. Wrong. I give up. Certainly no Republican is going to do it.

  • Eric Bischoff

    Only one thing wrong, it is your limited point of view.

    You seem to operate from a fear base. Fear of everything you don’t understand. The world is not black or white. Capitalism is not the answer to everything. I think you are confused, as many people are, in your thinking/beliefs that we are ever governed by left anything. The only time anyone in this govt is left leaning is when they’ve leaned left of the extreme right and have now reached center. Bernie Sanders being one of the few exceptions. The winner take all 2 party system is not serving us anymore. Half the country is always unhappy and feeling unrepresented. We need a more progressive approach.

    I consider myself a progressive but I want nothing to do communism either. They are all flawed ideologies. I do believe in compassion and helping others who are not as fortunate or may have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own.

    Unlike you I am not fooled by the ever dishonest discussions of wealth redistribution. Wealth redistribution is always happening but It is the giant sucking sound from the bottom to the top ruling class status quo. Stopping that conveyor belt always seems to sound alarms from the not so honest crowd making it sound like the poor are trying to steal from the rich. Like that will ever happen! Facts and figures will show a different reality.

    We’ve reached despicable levels of wealth inequality in this country and we didn’t get there by the methods you are suggesting. You, as usual, are putting the blame on the victims.

    Also the problem is not with the EPA or FDA and their progressive, ultimately more enlightened, agenda of leaving the world at least as good as we found it for future generations. The problem is that they are invaded by corrupt, greedy, conservatives who belong to the revolving door club, meaning they have a guaranteed job with the very people they are supposed to protect us from.

    So where do you get off labeling progressives as a sub species.

    • karolyn

      Welcome back Eric! Love what you said about fear. If more people lived from love rather than fear, we would have no problems in this world! Fear is the basis for ALL the ills of the world!

      • Bob

        You know nothing of love. you are filled with the hate that lieberals have for every good and decent thing. As a leftist you stand shoulder to shoulder with Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot and all the rest of the megalomaniac marxist/socialist/atheist murderers of the last century.

        • karolyn

          WOW! You PRESUME to know an awful lot, Bob.

          • Bob

            You reveal your evil nature in your posts. Your are a leftist and you share the heritage of hate and evil that is what the left is all about.

          • karolyn

            the only evil and hate I see here are what is coming from you, Bob.

        • s c

          Bob, if you want a better idea of what’s going on with k and her “world,” ask her to do a short term paper [or a quickie explanation] concerning the freedom-hating realities of Margaret Sanger,
          Planned Parenthood, the ACLU and America’s pro-death mentality. Her ‘understanding’ of that relationship will tell you a lot in a hurry.

        • eddie47d

          The only evil we are hearing is coming from Bob and it is speaking in volumes.

      • Thor

        “Fear is the basis for ALL the ills of the world!” How profound, karolyn. Since ignorance is the basis for fear then, by the transitive property of equality, ignorance is the Fear for ALL progressives!

        Progressivism and conservatism are methodologies not ideologies. Either of these tools, used in excess, separately, are prone to failure. Employed together, in the right balance, with wisdom and reticence, the two methods can achieve any practical outcome. But, as with all tools, they may be misused.
        Any suave and savvy politician aware of the functioning respective psychologies of the two can strike the balance needed to achieve his or her ideology. An enterprising communist, for example, need only shift the balance of power to the progressives and the chaos they create can chide the staunchest capitalist into shifting his position from conservative, reserved, orthodox practice—from the right to center. And that’s all it takes to make him ineffective. If the progressive tool can cause him to equivocate on so much as one of the beliefs at his moral core then, politically he has been transmogrified from conservatism to the ‘swing-voter relativism of a moral centrist’—a confusing ideology to suffer, but one that gives the opportunistic progressive the chance needed to compromise him. The conservative weakness is to allow himself to question his own values simply because some aggressive progressive challenges his charity on moral grounds.
        The chink in progressive armor is to view human vices and virtues as separate entities when in fact they are a package deal. One cannot offer charity to those who seem less fortunate but who have reached that state of affairs by choice; charity to the undeserving is not charity but vote-buying with entitlements. Progressives are neither more nor less charitable than conservatives. They merely embark on the mission with no cogent means of achieving it in mind—change for the sake of change with no practical solution in mind. Charity for the sake of charity, wealth redistribution for the sake of some deleterious notion of social justice and equality only facilitates sloth—just one of those anxious vices indelibly wed to a mutated social morality.

        • Handyman

          ALL OF YOU SEEM TO KNOW SO MUCH.

          ALL I KNOW IS THAT GOVERNMENTS HAVE ALWAYS MADE SLAVES OUT OF CITIZENS.

          FOR THAT REASSON, I DON’T TRUST GOVERNMENT.

          THE CHURCH GOVERNMENT IS THE WORST, LEADING YOU TO GOD THEN SWITCHING YOUR WILLING SERVICE TO GOD, TO THE CHURCH.

      • http://naver sook young

        Actually money is the root of all evil. Remember we can’t serve two masters? God or mammon, not both. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        • karolyn

          “LOVE of money is the root of all evil.”

        • Handyman

          SERVING GOD IS NOT SERVING THE CHURCH.

          • Handyman

            SERVING GOD IS FAR BEYOND SERVING A CHURCH.

        • Dagney

          The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Big difference!

          • Bob

            “For the love of money is A root of all KINDS of evil.” That is what the Bible actually says. It is probably the most misquoted verse in the Bible.

        • Kate8

          sook young – Actually, mammon refers to the physical, material world.

      • Robert Smith

        Karolyn says: ” Fear is the basis for ALL the ills of the world!”

        What do you expect from a religion of canabalism and run by a brutal god? If you screw up even once and don’t ask personal forgiveness from him or his son (allegdly one in the same which opens the door of polytheism, particularly with that spirit thing) you are done in pain forever. Forever is a long time I’m told.

        What we need is folks who can run America without fear.

        Sadly the fear mongers seem to have their hands on our throats and then they tell us we should have been more fearful.

        Rob

    • Bob

      “Despicable levels of wealth” – do you mean like the wealth of lieberal degenerates like Soros, Gates, Moore, and the “despicably” wealthy scum of whorelywood? In case you and your lieberal dimwit friends haven’t heard the news, lieberals are generally wealthier than conservatives and they are considerably less generous in giving than conservatives. Once again you prove that lieberals are pathological liars.

      • eddie47d

        Not everyone agrees with Bill Gates(at least on the vaccine issue) but he certainly does more good than a whole roomful of Conservatives. Bob likes to spin tall tails of misinformation as per usual. Is that from the right wing reform school where you got educated? LOL

        • JeffH

          I guess if you pay out enough to make yourself look good(Gates and his foundation)but continue to promote global eugenics through vaccines for population control of the downtrodden of the world you can fool the liberals.

          • Kate8

            JeffH – LOL. Yes, he’s dedicated to killing most of the world’s population, beginning with infants but, hey, aside from that he’s a philathropist.

          • Kate8

            philanthropist.

          • eddie47d

            I mentioned vaccines but I guess that is besides the point to you two. Although I avoid vaccines they have saved millions of lives.I’ve had malaria and understand the urgency to get others vaccinated if needed. Show me where millions or even hundreds have lost their lives due to a vaccine? Why do you think it would be a fair trade off if millions died without them?( and they do) Please none of your psycho babble about being forced to take shots and commie government control.

      • Handyman

        THIS IS GREAT FOR EVERY YES, THERE IS A NO. TO KNOW EVERYTHING, IS TO KNOW HALF OF EVERYTHING.

      • Robert Smith

        Is that the same Soros who played a significant role in the peaceful transition from communism to capitalism in Hungary (1984–89?

        Is that the same Soros who provided Europe’s largest-ever higher education endowment to Central European University in Budapest?

        Is that the same Bill Gates who cameup with a good idea, packaged it and sold it to the world to make a buck on his product? Shucks that’s an HONEST way to make money rather than simply trading paper. Don’t you think Bill Gates should be rewarded for his ideas? His ideas made my life better with DOS and Windows over the years. Can’t say the same about Bush’s cronies. What did they give me besides a higher tax bill because they ducked out on taxes?

        Moore produced movies that educated and entertained people. Remember, NOBODY has refuted any of the facts Moore has presented. The extreme reich simply gripes about them and startes name calling. Anyhow, I paid my $10 at the theater to see his work. I got value for it, unlike the looters who took my morgage, packaged it, and nearly bankrupted America.

        Rob

        • Dennis48e

          “NOBODY has refuted any of the facts Moore has presented.”

          Moore’s movie about Columbine has been proven to be 99% BULL SH!T for one example of the proving of his works of fiction having very little basis in truth.

    • Ellen

      Eric, I think most people would agree with you about helping people who have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own. It is quite obvious our safety net for this situation is a failure. If your unemployment check doesn’t begin to cover your basic bills, then the system is a failure. It would be like having car insurance and getting a check for $500 to cover the complete loss of your new $30,000 vehicle and all other accident-related expenses. The bigger problem here is the people who choose to live off the backs of others and that is the main topic of this article (human choice). We have not managed our welfare programs and they’ve become abused. Why should taxpayers pay for a woman’s child? Why aren’t she and the father responsible? Why is she having 6 kids when she lacks the means to even support herself? These are not people who have fallen on hard times; they are people who choose to repeat the welfare cycle. 40% of all US babies are born into welfare each year. Our system is abused and we can’t afford it anymore. Worse yet, welfare abusers don’t appreciate all the assistance they get; they want more. Whether it’s a welfare abuser or a spoiled rich kid, the story is the same: they don’t appreciate anything they receive and they always think they deserve more. That’s the evil of human nature.

      • karolyn

        It’s NOT human nature! It is behavior that is TAUGHT!

        • Bob

          Nonsense, utter nonsense.

        • http://naver sook young

          What would you know about human nature? Are you a psychiatrist? You presume too much lady. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          • karolyn

            What does a psychiatrist have to do with anything? All they are is glorified pill pushers. Just because someone has a degree in psychology doesn’t mean they know squat. I’ve known psychologists who are so off the wall they really know nothing of human nature and are raising monsters. I have been a student of people my whole life and have more practical knowledge than many pill pushers and armchair counselors practicing. Although I have read a great deal, there is more to knowledge than book-learning and degrees.

          • eddie47d

            Sook fails to realize that everyone plays psychiatrist on this site and tries to assume too much,especially the authors.

      • Handyman

        KEEP IT LOCAL, THAT IS THE HELP. YOU CAN’T HELP SOMEONE YOU DON’T KNOW.

        • Robert Smith

          Sure folks can Handyman.

          I just watched a 60 Minutes episode where a kid from the mideast messed up by a mine was helped out. All by volunteers.

          Who says socialised medicine, or at least charitable medicine, can’t make a difference?

          How did the right ever get so bitter they don’t want to help kids, unless it’s one they know?

          Rob

          • independent thinker

            “Who says socialised medicine, or at least charitable medicine, can’t make a difference?”

            There is a hell of a lot of difference in “socialised and “charitable” medicine.

      • momplayer

        I agree!! There are people that draw welfare generation after generation. They are on welfare for a lifetime with no limits. People who have worked for 50 years are able to get unemployment for 99 weeks.People on welfare have homes to live in,people who have worked get their homes forsclosed on,people on welfare get food stamps to feed their kids,people who worked worry where the next meal to feed their kids will come from,people on welfare get free medical,people who worked have no medical because their coverge was linked to their job and they can’t afford it(or cobra) now that their laid off.Shouldn’t welfare be for limted time like 99 weeks,shouldn’t they have to worry about housing,food and medical just like the working people?

        • karolyn

          There is a limit to the time welfare can be collected here in SC. I believe it’s 36 months within a five year period, but I may be wrong. There is also a limit to the amount of children. It’s not the old “have another kid, get more money” scenario. There are only 2 states, Michigan and Vermont, that have no time limit. 23 states have a 60 month time limit. Here’s a site that has a lot of info on welfare in the US.
          http://www.mdrc.org/publications/51/full.pdf

          • Jana

            karolyn,
            Now that’s good news.

          • momplayer

            I have read through the link you have. The 60 months(5 years) limatation applies only if it is for parent and children not children only.I could find nothing stating any limitation on the number of children you can have while on welfare. Even if the 60 months limit applies that isn’t any consulation to people have worked for years to unemployment for 99 weeks that are losing their homes. If they think people who want to work can find a job in 99 weeks,why shouldn’t the same rules apply for welfare? why would it take some one on welfare 3 1/2 years longer to be able to find a job?

    • JimRed

      “I consider myself a progressive but I want nothing to do communism either.”

      Sorry, but progressive is the new leftist lie-word covering liberal, socialist, communist, Marxist, fascist and all other degrees of state uber-alles opinion. You called yourselves liberals until that was unmasked, now it’s progressives. If you called yourselves what you really are, you know even the uninformed would reject you.

      You don’t sound like a bad person; you’re likely one of those many who have fallen for Marx’s pie in the sky (same slice for everyone).

      • eddie47d

        Communism is an unworkable failure and Capitalism has become legalized corruption. Progressives seek a better way and yes it is a work in progress.

        • Handyman

          CAPITALISM WORKED IN THE PAST, BECAUSE PEOPLE HAD REAL CHALENGES AND THOSE WHO MADE IT STARTED FROM NOTHING WITH EVERYONE ELSE. THEN THE SPOILED CHILDREN OF THOSE WHO MADE IT, TOOK OVER AND WITHOUT WORKING THEIR WAY UP TO SUCESS, THEY TOOK AND TOOK WITHOUT THE GOVERNMENT (WE THE PEOPLE) TO KEEP THEM SANE AND SELFLESS.

          • Wayne937

            Handyman, Capitalism worked fine until the greedy Communist, Socialist Liberals came along. They ruined it for everyone. If we turn to Communism, Socialist and Liberalism who will be the one deciding who will be doing all the work. Will it be the Amointed one, Obama, who wants to be our dictator. I am sure all his buddies will reap the harvest as they do in all the other Communist Countries. Karolyn and Eddie47 may be selected to be one of the worker bees who have to work to help keep the upper class that Obama puts on the government payroll. Wouldn’t that be great?

          • eddie47d

            That is odd Wayne because Dave H. says there hasn’t been any true capitalism in this country for 150 years. Long before communism was even brought to light. Your another one who loves to bring up the commies when they seldom have anything to do with our problems. Smoke and mirrors,slander and fears. I guess you spew what you know best.

          • Robert Smith

            Handyman claims: “CAPITALISM WORKED IN THE PAST, BECAUSE PEOPLE HAD REAL CHALENGES AND THOSE WHO MADE IT STARTED FROM NOTHING WITH EVERYONE ELSE.”

            Well, Howard Hughs had his daddy’s factory to begin with. And then he made PRDUCTS like oil rig parts, movies, airplanes, etc.

            It’s the uber rich in America TODAY who make money out of paper and produce NOTHING who are stealing from and killing the middle class that can no longer afford to pay it out to both ends of the economic stick.

            I’d much rather help someone eat than have my money taken by someone playing the markets.

            Rob

          • independent thinker

            Robert Smith …………… James Hill started with nothing and built the Great Northern Railroad.

        • 45caliber

          eddie:

          You are right. Communism is a failure. Capitolism can lead to corruption. But the only choice I’ve seen the progressives suggest is exactly the same as what the Communists tried. I’d much rather use the existing laws to clean up the corruption in Capitolism than anything else that has already been proved to be failure.

          • Robert Smith

            45 says: ” But the only choice I’ve seen the progressives suggest is exactly the same as what the Communists tried.”

            Nope. I’d be happy if the tax structure during Eisenhour or even Reagan where the rich were paying a fair share of the taxes were in place. And I’m sure you can’t call either of them “communist.”

            We’ve got to get rid of the paper money being looted from the middle class. The poor have always been with us. The Kings and Churches used to steal from us. Now it’s “business.” We need to rebel against the corporations.

            Rob

    • Brenda Choate

      Your progressive approach is liken to a cancer, insidious in its growth with an extreme outcome. Social Security, being the best example. Initially designed to benefit elderly has now morped into a vast welfare program, allowing people who have never worked or contributed to draw from the system. It is the most successful scam in existance. Never designed to be the sole support of the elderly, it encouraged millions to falsely pin their retirement on their Social Security checks, which are so meager that they have to be content with survival from one pay check to the next. I too believe in compassion, but is it compassionate to reduce a persons standard of living on a progressive idea.

      Wealth redistribution has always existed. In that you are correct. However considering it ” giant sucking sound” from the bottom up is a little disingenuous in that the wealthy have historically accrued their wealth from the labors of their employees. I will grant that this did not start with the first generation, but became more pronounced with successive generations. However, nosithstanding, the “progressive” idea is to have the monies redistributed to the worker. That did not work in communism.

      Your assessment of the EPA and FDA is correct it that they have been invaded by the “greedy and corrupt”. But these invaders are not conservatives. Rather, they are cooperative invaders like GE, the “green energy” manufacturers, environmentalist, etc., who seek their own nebulous reforms or agenda. GE now has a seat in the White House, was a large contributor to Obama, receiver of tax dollars for their “green energy” programs, and in addition to evading paying any corporate tax, shipped jobs overseas. Are these the greedy and corrupt you were refering to?

      • eddie47d

        If GE is greedy and corrupt and they represent a very major corporation in America as does EXXON who doesn’t pay much in taxes either then our capitalism doesn’t offer much except more corruption and dishonesty. Thanks for bringing that up. Now Social Security is a very meaningful program and was set up to only be a supplemental retirement policy. It is also a God send for the majority of Americans. The big problem is the politicians with sticky fingers who like to rob Peter to pay Paul.SS itself has actually worked quite well.

        • Handyman

          HONESTY COMES FROM OUTSIDE YOURSELF, FROM SOMEONE GREATER, GOD. THE SON OF GOD CAME TO GIVE GOD’S SALVATION, PRICE PAID FOR IN FULL, BY THE ONLY ONE WHO EVER WAS WORTHY TO PAY THE PRICE, JESUS CHRIST, OUR WILLING SERVANT.

        • Robert Smith

          GE isn’t really an American company anymore. They’ve moved their offices off shore to get out of taxes. They are looting from the American middle class and ain’t nobody doing nothing about it. It’s “legal.”

          Rob

      • Wayne937

        Brenda, your right on. My brother had a stepson who is an alooholic. This good for nothing started drawing $350.00 per month from SS back 20 years ago and he was only around 42 years of age at the time. He had hardly worked any before that time. I am surprised he even had his minimum time in to draw anything any money. I believe a person needed 10 years (40 quarters) to draw SS at that time. The poor tax payer has to pay these bums, but they did not do anything to cause the situation.

        • Carlucci

          That is because government has created yet another “class” of people who are eligible for welfare. Alcoholism is considered to be a “disability”. So is drug addiction. I used to teach that in a Fair Housing course at a real estate school. Addicts not only are eligible for social security disability benefits, they are also eligible for HUD housing. Also, woe to the business owner, landlord, etc., who “discriminates” against the addict.

          • http://none Stephen Tareila

            Then why did you teach it? Did you believe in it at the time? Or did you teach something that is not only untrue but that you could not support or believe? People, herein lies the problem!!

        • 45caliber

          Wayne:

          To draw SS for a disability, you don’t have to have paid anything in at all. For retirement, yes. Not for a disability. And any addiction is considered a disability. In fact, if you are considered to have a disability but don’t or if you MIGHT have one in the future you are also covered. See the definition in the American Disability Act.

          • momplayer

            I wish I could agree with you,but if you really have a physical disability you have to fight for your SS disabilty.I have 6 herniated discs with bulges,severe arithris where I can’t stand too long,sit too long or walk very far and I have been turned down twice. Starting my third round with SS and this has been going on 2 years.Guess I instead of working for 40 years I should have become a drunk,a junkie or an overeater.

          • karolyn

            There was a story of a guy in Charlotte a couple of years ago who had a mental disability. He had been denied several times and couldn’t afford his medication. Just prior to finally being awarded disability, he killed himself. I have met only one person who was ever awarded disability the first time he applied. They even disallow people in wheelchairs the first time! The third time is the charm. Good luck momplayer.

          • 45caliber

            I didnt’ say it would be easy to draw – it isn’t because too many people try to get onto it for fake problems. It will likely take several years. But when you do get on it, you can get paid back to year one. The first place to start is with doctor statements that you have the problem and cannot work. Two at least. Keep pushing. If you deserve it you will get it. It just takes awhile.

      • 45caliber

        Brenda:

        One reason Communism (redistribution of wealth to the workers) never worked was because they insisted everyone get the same thing.

        If you are working beside someone who comes to work no more than three times a week, never does a thing when he is there, and draws the same income that you do, why bother working hard yourself? That’s what killed it in Russia. Everyone quit trying to work. There is no incintative.

        At least here, even as a worker, if you do a good job hopefully you’ll get more money than the one who won’t. Usually that is correct. So most people do try to do a good job.

        The only value of Communism (to me) as they insisted that all the drones we have on Welfare also had to have a job. We let them sit at home.

    • JimRed

      “The problem is that they are invaded by corrupt, greedy, conservatives who belong to the revolving door club, meaning they have a guaranteed job with the very people they are supposed to protect us from.”

      WOW! You just perfectly described the Democrat Party! The difference is that they continue to feed at the PUBLIC trough for life when possible, instead of going out to private industry to work. TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!

    • Cawmun Cents

      Perhaps you havent seen what we have seen Mr.Bischoff.Most of us have been watching progressives(and therir wanton path toward complete annihilation)lo these past decades or so,and have been thoroughly convinced that you must be a sub-species.You mus observe signs,such as the city of Detroit,once the crown jewel of progressive boasting.The”Golden State”of California,is another prime example.well on the way to becoming the state version of Detroit.Wherever they wander and roam,progressives make a mess out of everything.Politically correct views aside you will find it extremely hard to convince those of us with malice of foresight,otherwise.You will be ranting about that which you will unlikely be able to produce evidence of,to back up your stance.Therefore as Darwin founded his Origin of species,we of sound mind and testicular fortitude,find it necessary to add to his knowledge,a sub-species known as”Progressivus Destructi”.Commonly known as a progressive liberal to the laymen on the street.You cant help destroying a good thing because you think you can micro-manage the full spectrum.Au contraire,Mr.Bischoff.You will find that here in America,despite what you progressives might entertain,we are quite able to get along without progressive thought processes interfering with out daily lives.One day if you are very fortunate,you willabandon those negative waves of thought,and join the human race.-CC.

      • eddie47d

        Sure the robber barons thrive when left alone and that is why you want the progressives out of the way. Oh yes, the good ol’ days!

        • Cawmun Cents

          Do you mean like the ones in charge of the future healthcare system,eddie47d?Or perhaps the green ones in charge of the cap and trade debacle?I guess that one mans robber baron is another mans supplier of a job,huh?MONETIZE THE NATIONAL CURRENCY,AND THEN EXPECT EVERYONE TO FOLLOW YOU INTO THE ABYSS OF DEBT WHICH FOLLOWS,RIGHT?These are the real techniques of robber barons.It is time that you and your union cronies learn and understand that.How many will have to die in the presumptuous civl strife afterward?Have you asked the Federal goonsquad that question yet eddie47d?It is completely fine with you if they fine me for not employing their version of healthcare,but damn someone else who just wants to make a comfortable living without draconian tax laws to weigh them down.I think that some folks in the past might see that as a reason to overthrow some other folks,dont you eddie47d?Not that I advocate that type of thing mind you,but if it begins to occur right in front of me,I will have to choose sides like everyone else,right?Nothing like forcing someones hand to fight for what they believe in,right eddie47d?Words like liberty and freedom come to the vocabulary easily,but the what is required to say,and really mean them usually come with a pricetag attached.The question is….
          Is the current administration capable of putting the naysayers to the sword and subjugating those who are too comfortable to resist any longer?It will not be an easy task.It will cost the precious resource of freemen and patriotic Americans.Are they willing to spend that resource here at home?Because if they are,then it would say alot about the character of those who have been elected into office.Maybe you want to live on your knees befroe people like that,but give the rest of us who would choose otherwise the right to be free enough to make our own assessment on the matter.Instead of putting us down,if you hate our ideals so much,pehaps you should hedge your bet?Just egg us on and we will doom ourselves,right eddie47d?Then while you live through the horror that follows,you can brag about having known some folks with the fortitude to stand for what they believe in.-CC.

    • DaveH

      Eric says “I do believe in compassion and helping others who are not as fortunate or may have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own”.
      Great, Eric, then do that, with your own money! You are not displaying Compassion when you donate other peoples’ money. That is called Theft.

      And while you are right that some of the Rich are taking from the Poor (with the aid of Big Government), I doubt you realize that the solution to that is Free Markets. With Laissez Faire Capitalism, the businesses have to please the consumers, not the politicians. Big Businesses much prefer the regularity of Government involvement, than the competition of Free Markets.
      When you help the Leaders build their Gargantuan Government, you are playing right into the hands of those Rich people who use Big Government to run interference for them.

      • Handyman

        THANK YOU DAVID, I AGREE YOU SHOULD KNOW THE PEOPLE YOU HELP, AND IT SHOULD NOT BE THROUGH ANY ORGANIZATION! GO THERE AND DO IT DIRECTLY OR NOT AT ALL!

      • DaveH

        Here is just a small local sample of what Government does to stifle energetic people so as to protect Government Cronies from competition:
        http://www.ij.org/about/3781

      • DaveH

        And Eric,
        I know you Progressives (Liberals) like to convince your ignorant followers that you are redistributing the money of the rich, but the reality is that Mom and Pop, the people who you feign concern for, get robbed also. Say Mom and Pop had saved for forty years ($100,000) to make their retirement a little easier, then the Progressives come along and double the money supply with their irresponsible Government Spending, and Mom and Pop’s small nest egg suddenly can only buy half as much as it could before the Progressives robbed them the hidden way (inflation). The Rich meanwhile don’t get hurt much because they are sophisticated enough to protect their money with inflation resistant assets.
        Progressives like to talk a good show, but the reality is that their scam only lasts until they have picked other peoples’ assets clean.

    • 45caliber

      Eric:

      The population of the US is like a bell curve when it comes to politics. Most are in the center with the extremes on either end. (If you aren’t sure what a bell curve looks like, please look it up. I don’t know how to draw on this format.)

      Unfortunately, BOTH the right and the left (of which you are one) keep insisting that they are in the center. Neither are. So please don’t quote the tired old comments of both political parties. You are on the left ( pretty far to the left according to what I read of your comments) and I’m about half way on the right but leaning more toward the center in that I will occasionally vote for a Democrat if I think he is better than the GOP opponent. Unfortunately, neither party has pushed a really good candidate for several years now on a national position.

  • Donald

    Ringer likes to run on about Freedeom. Where w

  • http://www.sexualrealist.blogspot.com Dixie Passion

    I think most of the human race likes to work and have something to do. The government seems to want to get us standing in lines for there handout what better way to control us?

    I think free people can live within society and not be over ran by it’s rules everyone knows how to pretend.

    • 45caliber

      The problem comes when the government officials lose their common sense. No rule (law) can cover every situation so the politicians keep trying to amend the rules to do just that. And everyone gets confused. So too many people try to follow the latest version of the law without allowing any common sense to prevail. For instance, it is common sense to allow a six year old to run a lemonade stand. It is the law that says the six year old should buy a city permit to do it. It is the politician who refuses to allow any lenience considering the child’s age and the little likeyhood that the child will make enough profit to buy a candy bar.

  • s c

    Soooooweeeee, pig, pig. The razorbacks are out in force today. Only a feces-hurling Darwinian would dare to take the time to define homo sapiens. Folks, you don’t need to waste time trying to define what is and what is not homo sapiens.
    As a rule, anyone who dares to become a politician is a subhuman, homo sapiens. Look around. They’re all over the place. Anyone who thinks a politician can walk on water is a 2nd degree, subhuman homo sapiens.
    What matters is that some people want to be free from negative influences such as a) career politicians, dicks, dorks and wieners who pose as humans], b) ultraliberal progressives who waste their time and ours on this website and c) people who think their brand of freedom-hating politics is the key to all of America’s problems.
    Use your head once in a while, and you deserve to be seen as better than a Darwinian or a politician.
    Think with your emotions, and you deserve to be seen as a wannabe Mikey Moore. Simplify, discern, and think. Climb out of that tree – while you can.
    You’re supposed to be Americans. Act like it.

    • karolyn

      And how, exactly, does an “Americn” act? I prefer to think of myself as a human being first and an American second. Isn’t that what we all are? No one is sub-human.

      • Bob

        u are neither, you are a lieberal monster like Stalin.

      • http://naver sook young

        Thank you for showing a mental disorder by putting yourself before this great nation. Are you trying to say that you are more important than this country? Are we playing the role of a god? Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        • karolyn

          What on earth are you talking about?

          • eddie47d

            SC must be overlooking Bob’s comments.He has his own brand of freedom hating politics. He is always hating his way to the top. Sadly it’s the top of the manure pile.

          • Cawmun Cents

            At least s c is moving upwards eddie47d.Unlike you and karolyn who are headed for the abyss of joining those who would force this current fiasco on others to prove a point,right eddie47d?Unless of course you consider it a fact that riding the hot rails to hell of socialism,is upward mobility.Evidently some do.I am sure as I can be that I am not one of them…haw!-CC.

    • 45caliber

      Politics was invented primarily to take the earnings of others without doing any real work themselves. (And like most criminals, sometimes they do more work for less profit by doing so.) In otherwords, it is legalized theft. Legalized, of course, by the people taking the money in the first place. Theft is a type of crime that indicates subhumanism. So anyone trying to justify theft, even if it is legalized, therefore falls into that category, karolyn. SC is right.

  • Donald

    When the so-called Patriot Act was passed, taking away many of our Freedoms, where were all these people who are now worrying about our Freedoms?

    • DaveH

      Where were you, Donald? Did you vote Libertarian, the only people who seriously want to get our freedom back?
      Or did you vote Democrat, most of whom voted to extend the Patriot Act?

    • 45caliber

      I raised Cain about it. But I was only one person. What did you do?

  • orphanannie

    eric, you shd keep your misguided and wrong opinions to the wrestling arena. r u karolyn’s brother ? u and k provide nothing to this forum, except u have wasted the time i took to type this post.
    e & k get lost.

  • ED FOUTS

    PROGRESSIVES –DON,T FOR GET THE UNITED STATES SECOND AMENDMENT.
    A NOTE TO OUR 535 CONGRESSMEN–WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES
    OF AMERICA WE KNOW WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PLACED OUR SECOND AMENDMENT IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS,WE KNOW IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HUNTING”AS YOU SUGGEST FROM TIME TO TIME. ULTIMATELY WE KNOW ITS PURPOSE ,WITCH IS AS STATED IN THE AMENDMENT ITSELF, THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE.
    PLEASE DON,T FORCE US TO USE IT.

    • Al Sieber

      I second that one.

      • 45caliber

        And I’ll third it.

  • http://usintel.net Bill from Laos

    To attempt to answer Chris Allen’s question, many of the voting class
    “give a hoot” but do not know where to turn or what to do. Many do
    not have the analytical ability to take apart what’s happening in America,
    but they DO understand that something very wrong and terrible is going
    on under the current “leadership.” However, a vocal and irate group of
    American Patriots have organized a class action for all to join – and many
    are signing on – to remove Obama from office. In spite of the cries from
    all of the eggheads, it’s a start. It will be a blow to the left, Soros the rogue
    international criminal, the free loading, America hating, “progressives” who
    have long been corrupted, and a start towards where we should start to go
    in this country. Well worth looking into! Who’s with us?

    http://www.ccaabo.com

    Citizens Class Action Against Barack Obama

  • Conservative at Birth

    Progressives = Communists disguised as Democrats. The reason socialism, unionism, and communism fail is very simple. When everyone gets the same value (except for the ruling elite) for their efforts, they tend to work down to the lowest common denominator. They all destroy the incentive to work harder, smarter, faster and better. This results in lower procuctivity and less wealth creation, causing the privation of all or the proletariats (except for the ruling elite.) I don’t need the enlightend comrades at the FDA, EPA, DOE (Energy & Education) or any of the many government beuracracies to tell me how to live my life. It is, after all my life. As long as I do nothing to violate someone elses life I should be left alone period. The day the rioting, looting and general decline happens, I am well armed with stockpiles of ammunition, food and water. So, I invite all you progressive thievs to take your best shot at stealing my stuff.

    • newspooner

      Your statement, “As long as I do nothing to violate someone elses life I should be left alone period”, tells me that you actually are a Libertarian rather than a Conservative. After all, you really don’t want to conserve the system that has evolved, do you? The evil power seekers have taken our constitutional system and perverted it (with discouragingly little opposition from “Conservatives”) into a vast conglomerate of tyranny, beaurocracy, idiocy, pseudo-intellctual BS, welfare-grovelling, celebrity-worshipping, and faddist culture.

      Always vote for the candidate who truly advocates LOWER TAXES, LESS GOVERNMENT, and MORE INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM.

      Get the US out of the UN, and get the UN out of the US. Otherwise, all liberty will be lost.

      • Conservative at Birth

        I voted for Roger McBride in 1984, John Anderson in 1980. and George Wallace in 1972. Other than those three elections I have voted for Republicans as the lesser of two evils. Yes, I am truely Libertarian. I left the Liberarian fold because of their belief in open borders. I don’t see a possible scenario where if is possible for a candidate running on the Libertarian ticket for President to win the election. It will only dilute the vote in favor of the Democrats. I choose to try to chang the Republican Party from Democrat lite to more of a Libertarian Party without the open borders.

        • Handyman

          FREEDOM IS INSIDE A MAN, NO ONE CAN TAKE IT AWAY. GOVERNMENT IS MADE UP OF IMPERFECT PEOPLE, SO ARE ORGANIZATIONS. FREEDOM IS FROM ALL INCLUDING ALL GOVERNMENTS, YES EVEN CHURCHES. GOD IS ABOVE ALL OF THOSE THINGS. HE GIVES TO US OUT OF HIS GRACE, AND THAT IS ABUNDANT.

        • 45caliber

          Conservative:

          I agree with you. I wonder sometimes if some of the “libertarians” are actually Dems who are trying to split the conservative vote as Peroit did several years ago.

    • eddie47d

      Conservative at Birth; The Chinese work harder,faster and better just the way you like it. I don’t envy their brand of capitalism one bit,do you? Progressives feel they have a better way. Maybe they do and maybe they don’t but our brand of capitalism has sunk this nation economically also. We are all searching for a better way and it can still be Capitalism without the croneyism. You side isn’t working hard enough to change the way they do business which means you must like it. Government dependency isn’t the answer and neither is all the croneyism within capitalism. I look at both sides as being weak and tearing this country down and search for a strong middle ground.

      • 45caliber

        eddie:

        Our brand of capitolism didn’t sink our country. It was our brand of government acting on capitolism that did the job. And that includes BOTH parties. When you come down to it, both are the same. They get their money from the same people. They pass the same laws. They build the same government. The rest is just propaganda.

      • Cawmun Cents

        What happens eddie47d,when you have to climb down off of the fence?When you have to hit the ground running on one side or the other,then what?Middle ground could be seen as the place where two s#!tstorms are veering towards each other to collide.In that case you will have to choose the right(or apparently left)side to shelter yourself from.Eventually you will either have to lead,follow,or get the hell out of the way.But remember a guy named Humpty Dumpty,who sat on the wall.All the kings horses and men couldnt help that poor son of a gun.Thats seems to be what he gets for not jumping down on the right side of the wall.The funny thing is that the left side of the wall has always historically speaking,led to millions of deaths.Hmmm,rahtrer illuminating dont you agree,eddie47d?-CC.

  • DaveH

    Robert Ringer says “the more goods and services a man acquires without work, the more avaricious he becomes”.
    Spot on, Robert! Whereas the average moral taxpayer might expect a thank you from those getting a free ride on his/her back, the reality is vile anger coming from the recipients if the donor dares to suggest he/she can no longer afford the generosity. Witness the Greek Riots.
    Most parents know the result of Spoiling a child, but somehow many of us turn a blind eye to the very real spoiling of freeloading adults.

    • TIME

      Dave,
      Dead on! Great post.

    • 45caliber

      DaveH:

      I agree. To make matters worse, many of those spoiled adults want to insure they DO take more and more from the person paying the bills as punishment for him even suggesting cutting his payments or reducing their own costs.

  • hopalong

    Where, are you going to find, HONEST POLITICIANS. Most of them, were honest when elected, but don’t stay that way very long. The biggest problem with america, in government.

    • Don

      hopalong, thats why we need to clean out Washington, join the teaparty !!

  • wayne937

    Doesn’t the Declaration of Independence say if we, the people, are not being properly served by our government, we have the right to change it. I think the Liberals need to read that over again. I read it yesterday from this website. Why did this President and Congress pass the health care law over the objection of 63 percent of the voters. It shows me that they rammed it down our throat to satisfy the minorities. Why can’t the Liberals see this???? I don’t like Communisn. That was a dirty word when I grew up. Of course the Russians told us they would take us over without firing a shot. If we keep Obama in office the Russians word will have come true. Let’s keep our freedom, and let Obama know we do not want to be under his Communistic views as we love our freedom too much.

    • HarryButtle

      “Why did this President and Congress pass the health care law over the objection of 63 percent of the voters.”

      I’m not sure what you’re talking about here.

      Poll: Americans Favor Universal Healthcare, Just Not for Illegal Immigrants
      65: Percentage of voters who believe that every American should have access to quality healthcare
      22: Percentage of voters who disagree
      12: Percentage of voters who aren’t sure
      http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2009/06/16/poll-americans-favor-universal-healthcare-just-not-for-illegal-immigrants

      Americans by a 2-1 margin prefer a universal health insurance program over the current employer-based system.
      http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/US/healthcare031020_poll.html

      Another Poll Shows Majority Support for Single-Payer
      http://www.healthcare-now.org/another-poll-shows-majority-support-for-single-payer/

      • 45caliber

        65 percent of Americans believe we should have access to quality healthcare. Unfortunately, many of us also believe that government run health care is NOT quality health care. These answers came from shaded questions. For instance, do you believe that we should be able to get into the emergency room and be cared for within thirty minutes? If you don’t agree, you are one of the few who wouldn’t. BUT – does that mean you want to scrap our present system to get government health care – which has ALWAYS proven to be less efficient and poorer quality? If you agree, you are one of the few who do.

        If you don’t believe me about the poorer quality and less efficiency, check out the system in England and in Massachusetts. Particularly England. Mass. is simply going broke. In fact, check onto wnd.com, look up the English newspapers they have links to, and check them out. Generally they have two or three articles a week about the poor quality of health care. Things like someone laying in an emergency room until they died, or lay in their hospital bed for hours without a nurse checking on them and died, or a mother unable to get swine flu vaccine for her daughter, who died of it, even when she offered to pay for it. Etc. Things that generally does NOT happen in our present system.

      • DaveH

        That’s odd, Harry. According to Rasmussen:
        http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

        And judging from the people I know, Rasmussen is correct.

    • Handyman

      GET RID OF THE UN, EPA, AND OTHER DISTRUCTIVE ORGANIZATIONS, WHO, &&&.

      • eddie47d

        Why get rid of the EPA? So folks like the Koch Brothers (the biggest polluters in America)can have a field day in trying to destroy God’s earth.

        • 45caliber

          eddie:
          The EPA has done some good. However, they have since gone overboard, far beyond their mandate, because they want to keep hiring more people. As far as the Koch Brothers are concerned, I seriously doubt that they pollute as much as other places in the world. In fact, I suspect they meet the present EPA guidelines even if they do pollute more than others might. (And I wonder about that.) So why do we need MORE laws? El Paso is considered one of the most polluted sites in the US. However, they also proved that if they shut down every piece of equipment in the city, including all cars, they would STILL be one of the most polluted places in the US due to the pollution coming across from Mexico. Why should El Paso be blamed?

          We might not need to get completely rid of the EPA but, like the FDA, we need to cut back a LOT on them since they have already finished their work except for watchdog activities.

        • DaveH

          We don’t need regulatory agencies to save us from pollution, Eddie. We simply need concrete, evenly enforced laws.
          We certainly don’t need agencies like the EPA who have become politicized and try to enforce rules that Congress rejected (Cap and Trade). And why do Liberals, if their intentions are really good, need to couch their agendas in vague terms? For instance, the EPA refers to Carbon emissions, when what they really mean is Carbon Dioxide emissions. They do that for obvious reasons, because most people know that Carbon Dioxide is necessary for plant life (photosynthesis) and therefore is good for our planet except at extreme concentrations (which we are not even close to).
          Abolish the politicized EPA!

  • Harry S.

    Ringer’s article is right om the mark. We are being steered toward Socialism/Communism by Obama & the Dems. They play on the lazyness of some people by offering government freebies from the cradle to the grave.

    The trouble is – there’s nothing really free. Where do these lazy parasites think the government gets its money? Someone pays to support this big government – it’s you , the taxpayer.

    I’d rather be right-wing than be president.

    • eddie47d

      Okay,but the right wingers hide behind the capitalist stooges and allow them to run the show.The weak kneed government allows them to get away with with their shenanigans. Yes there are Liberals who allow the government to get away with too much also. We all weave tangled webs.

  • Tazio2013

    For those relatively few PLD readers who understand that the US has been living under one party rule; i.e., Republikrats aka Demoblikans, since at least 1913, here is an article that suggests we will experience substantially less freedom for the hoi poloi in our future as long as we continue one party rule.

    http://www.thedailybell.com/2617/NATO-on-the-Ground-in-Somalia

    The top 4% of wealthy white guys will continue to have all the freedom money can buy.

    • wayne937

      Tazio, a lot of those old white rich guys your talking about realized that they had to be self employed in order toi get rich. For the most part, they received a good education, and worked many long hard hours in getting where they are, or they were born into rich families like the Kennedy’s, or the Rockafellas. I respect those that worked hard to get rich, but I don not have that much respect for the ones that had it handed to them on a gold plate. A lot of people such as myself opted to work for others. We all know, or should know, that we will never become rich working for others. In order to get rich we need to invent a good productd, start a thriving business and have it grow, or have parents who are multimillinaires and have them leave us their money. Tazio, if you work, thank the folks that have the money to hire you. If you don’t work, than you are most likely a Democrat Communist who wants other folks who works to help keep you. I hope you are gainfully employed as well as others as all others. I believe this Commuist Muslim we have in office now is the reason that our economy is suffering. This has caused a lot of working folks their jobs.

      • HarryButtle

        “or they were born into rich families like the Kennedy’s, or the Rockafellas.”

        Or, the Koch’s and DeVos’s.

      • eddie47d

        Wayne likes to be dramatic but since Obama is not a communist or a Muslim he kind of lowers his intelligence capacity. Since I worked hard for 40 years or more I know he is all trash talk. I’ve sat around many a table where Republicans/Conservatives talk up a good story about the next big deal. Some of them want the easy dollars without working for it too. They can ride on someone elses coattail also. There are plenty of facts about Obama and the economy without Wayne and others resorting to pathetic name calling.

        • DaveH

          Obama has surrounded himself with Communists:
          http://www.commieblaster.com/socialist_czars/index.html

          Only an ignoramus is not aware that birds of a feather flock together.

        • eddie47d

          Dave,anyone who doesn’t agree with you could be labeled a communist.Labeling anyone as such doesn’t make him one.

          • DaveH

            Do you really think the Liar-in-Chief is going to tell us that he’s a Communist? Or a Marxist? Or a Muslim?
            Are you really that naive, Eddie? Or are you just one of those guys who is so desperate for attention that you’ll settle for any kind, even negative?

          • eddie47d

            He may be incompetent on some issues but that still doesn’t make him a communist. There are incompetent capitalists too.

      • 45caliber

        wayne:

        I agree. Some years ago I had the opportunity to set up a private business (contract engineering company doing city work) and make as much as half a million a year with just me there. The chances were there I could also hire others and make far more money since there were several cities in the local area needing help. The only problem was that to do it I would have to work about 80-100 hours a week. I decided that I would prefer to spend my extra time with my family raising my kids and teaching them to be good people instead. I deliberately turned my back on that opportunity to work for someone else at a LOT less than that. And I’ve never been sorry I did.

        • karolyn

          Good for you 45. Too many people spend most of their lives away from their loved ones for the almighty buck. I’ve known several people who said they would wait to do things with their families until they retired and then they died soon after retiring. The time to live is now.

          • DaveH

            The “almighty buck”? If you really subscribe to that, Karolyn, how do you justify wanting other peoples’ bucks? And don’t tell me that you don’t. You can’t vote for a political party that lusts after other peoples’ money and not be part of that lust.

          • DaveH

            Actions speak louder than words.

    • 45caliber

      Tazio:

      Let’s just say the top 4% of the wealthy guys rather than just the white ones. The other races have wealthy too who are also in the top 4%.

  • http://www.soldbylynch.com Brian Lynch

    TERM LIMITS is the ONLY thing that will save us, if anything will…Man is, by nature, a avaricious creature…As such, the ‘politicians’ will do all to maintain their jobs AND how do you maintain such a job? Glad you asked – you spend more and brag about it to your district/state/etc…THAT simple fact ensures that politicians keep their jobs and spending goes to the moon…Don’t believe me? Why, if spending money you don’t have, keeps up and politicians keep their jobs? EVERYONE brags about getting term limits, though once elected it never happens…IF the president can be term limited(2 terms), the Senate/House/all the others in the bureaucracy can!

    • 45caliber

      Brian:

      There is some Congressman, don’t remember who, that stated that the term limits for President should be removed. Oblama is doing such a good job that he deserves a longer term than 8 years…

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    Riots in Madison ,Indianapolis and Columbus what?
    Redistribution of Wealth the wealthy code words for let the peasants pay (Middle Class)
    The EPA was started in 1970 by Richard Nixon because rivers were catching fire all by them selves,we could see the air we were breathing ,do not eat the fish etc,etc.Corporate America did not care about anything but there profits so they had to be policed it’s that simple.Today nothing has changed
    The 58 year old man he describing sounds like a CEO with a golden parachute not any blue collar worker I know.
    All the Politicians and pundits should have to wear NASCAR type driver suites so we the people would what Corporations,Lobbyists,tree hungers,etc,etc are supporting them.
    The Founding Fathers were more then Washington,Jefferson,etc,etc they were common Americans who did the dieing.
    Today the king that usurps the common American are the lobbyists who could car less about this country
    Have a good day you shut in and do not for get to take your MEDS

    • 45caliber

      SmSgt:

      Actually, the 58 year old he is talking about is the average Greek who is out protesting that he might have to go back to work for another couple of years. And he may well have to. The Germans and the English are the primary ones financing Greece right now and both countries are upset since they can’t retire until at least 63. They don’t like the idea of paying extra taxes so the Greek man can take things easy. Further, in Greece, there is no loss of pay when you retire. If you were making $80,000 a year at work before you retired, you make the same after as well. That is the reason the Greeks are out of money and why the people are rioting. They don’t want to lose that golden parachute.

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        Greek ? were did that come from a lack of med’s or is it because you have spent better then half a day on your computer and not enjoying the real world.

  • Raggs

    Good article Robert….

    I’m with you on thinking that the current canidates are mainly just a product of the machine.
    I to also believe that this country will see a drastic lean towards a Socialistic society due to our entitlement state.

    No doubt that America is NOT what is used to be nor what it should be.

  • ED FOUTS

    HOPE ALL YOU WHO VOTED FOR OBAMA THE LIAR CRIMINAL SEE WHAT YOU DONE TO YOUR COUNTRY,AND YOU KNEW HE WAS A LIAR FROM THE START, BUT YOU VOTED FOR A CRIMINAL LIAR THAT,S DESTROYING YOUR COUNTRY NOW YOU
    ARE GOING TO PAY FOR YOUR STUPID DEADLY MISTAKE, I HOPE HE CLEANS
    YOUR AZZZ GOOD FOR BEING SO STUPID AND BRAINLESS MORONS YOU ARE.

    • wayne937

      Ed, I am sad to say I agree with you. Obama said he wanted to make fundamentally changes to this country. The Communist Socialist and Liberal all said, our Messiah has arrived. Let’s not question him, let’s just vote this man whpo appeared from a dark shady past into office before he disappears again. This is what happened. We now have a 9.1 unemployment rate, 3.7 trillion more dollarsw in debt, higher gasoline prices and higher grocery prices. Obama admitted that his rouggly $875,000,000,000,000 shovel ready jobs did not haappen. Are we going to be dumb enough again to give him another chance? Yes! Bush may have run the car in the ditch, but this ignorant Muslim Communist certainly took the car and ran it over the hill. It is going to be very hard to get that car back on the road again. Even when we do get it back on the road, it will need a lot of repair.

      • eddie47d

        Wow, 875 trillion? The SMsgtZ got it right about the lobbyists being the new British. Guess how many lobbyists your blood sucking corporations and right wing groups have in Washington? Your side has plenty of power and are using it to the hilt to change the face of America. Maybe this country can get back to the basics without these new enemies prowling the streets of DC.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Stop yelling and take your med’s

  • Tanya

    Robert, this is a great article! I believe you are absolutely right that we need to stop being sucked in by the distractions and recognize that the real problem is the erosion of our liberty. Unfortunately, most people I know think the problem is whatever political party is currently in power. Most of the comments here perpetuate that myth and the very distractions you talked about.

    If we think the answer is just to throw out Democrats and elect Republicans, Tea Party or otherwise, or simply to elect non-politicians, we’re in trouble. Progressives don’t have the corner on stealing our freedom. Conservatives remove liberties as fast and furious as liberals, but we applaud them because they’re good Republicans. Meanwhile, guys like Ron Paul, who are actually speaking truth about our situation, get painted by both sides as fringe kooks. We are out of touch with reality, but unfortunately reality is going to hit us in the face sooner or later.

    I’ll vote for liberty or I won’t vote at all. I will no longer choose between the lesser of two evils. Evil is evil. If there’s no good choice, there’s no real choice.

    • wayne937

      Tanya, I agree with you, but we need to pick the lesser of the two evils. Obama is an evil person. We should never vote for him, or his hinchmen. They have already proved what they are capable of doing to this nation.

    • 45caliber

      Tanya:

      I agree with wayne. I had to grit my teeth to vote for McCain last Presidential election but I knew Oblama would be worse. And I may have to grit my teeth to vote for the next GOP candidate as well. Please keep in mind that a non-vote for anyone is actually a vote for whoever wins, regardless of who it is.

      • DaveH

        I disagree with both of you, Wayne and 45. We didn’t get here overnight. It came about as a steady progression of Government growth, sometimes faster than others (Lincoln, Wilson, FDR), but almost always Growth.
        McCain would have just continued the slower, more insidious growth. At least Obama has overplayed his hand in his enthusiasm to take us over, which has resulted in mobilizing people (f’n finally) like never before. With McCain’s slower growth, people might well have remained in their stupors until there was no turning back.

        • 45caliber

          I fully agree. With McCain in power it still would have come … but slower. That’s better than the speed Oblama is trying to move, I think.

        • Tanya

          I completely agree, Dave. I think a McCain presidency would have left a lot of people asleep. It was a difficult decision, but my husband and I voted for Chuck Baldwin, the Constitution Party candidate. He wasn’t going to win, but he is a man of integrity and someone we could support in good conscience. I know some would say we threw away our votes, but I believe I would have only thrown away my vote by betraying my conscience and voting for McCain. Idealistic, I know, to stand on principles, but someone has to.

    • DaveH

      Yay, Tanya!

  • Melissab

    Karolyn,

    The arrogance vomiting out of your mouth and those with your mind set is why we find ourselves where we are. You have nothing of value to offer. You are a taker of mans hard labor. Obama and people who think like you are the problem, not the solution.

    • ValDM

      Melissab,
      You don’t know how close to the mark you came. K’s employment is one of those make-work positions the feds offer from time-to-time. I believe she bows at the alter of Americorps. Of course she feels entitled………she IS entitled according to the feds.

      • karolyn

        Val – I am proud to be in a position to possibly make a difference in someone’s life. Maybe to stop someone from being raped or becoming the victim of domestic violence. Maybe to stop someone from perpetrating these horrific crimes. Trying to make a diference in this violent world.

        • 45caliber

          karolyn:

          We all want to make a difference. But there are actually better ways to do it – more certain ways – than by working for the government at one of their make-work projects. You should check out the other possibilities if that is your real wish.

        • ValDM

          You could do ALL of those things without being on the fed payroll. It’s good to be humanitarian, but do it because it’s something you believe, and not for the paycheck. If you’re only doing it for the paycheck, you’re just a drone.

          PS. You really believe you can prevent rape? That isn’t just confidence, that’s delusional.

        • karolyn

          Val – The best jobs in the world are the ones where you get paid to help people. What better way to spend one’s working life? Rape can be stopped with education. What is the most fulfilling is working with highschoolers. If only one young girl heeds what I have to say and saves herself, I am happy. If one young boy begins seeing women with more respect, I’m happy. I have helped people my whole life and not gotten paid for it; however, I have always wanted it to be my source of income as a social worker or counsellor. I’m very grateful to be in the position I’m in. If I was a materialistic person, I wouldn’t be doing this, that’s for sure.

        • DaveH

          You are in a position to blog all day long instead of working for a living, Karolyn. I would call that negatively productive, because not only are you wasting taxpayers’ money, but you are trying to steer good people in a bad direction.

          • DaveH

            And I’m not talking about your rape victims. I’m talking about the people who read these posts.

          • Kate8

            Unless blogging on conservative sites IS part of her job.

            Considering who she works for, I wouldn’t doubt it.

          • Kate8

            In which case, it’s still a waste of taxpayer money.

  • Bert Cundle

    Human Nature is: a Variable! Time is a Pervert! Male & Female Roles, are a blur. My roomate & I Saw the Fireworks on T. V. last night… The STatue of Liberty was Shown Several times. One view was the hand holding the torch. It looked “Female” Indicating that when the Statue was given to us, that Femals were Liberated in France, Long before their fight for Liberty here. Security Vs. Freedom; is what makes the world in constant termoral. War & Peace; are neither new! Compromize & Sacrafice, for servivle.

    • 45caliber

      Bert:

      The problem is that the other side insists that ALL compromise and sacrifice should be made by my side. And that is tyrrany. Compromise means BOTH sides should give some. If they won’t give, then I am wrong if I do all the giving. And I’m certainly wrong if I do all the sacrifice.

      • Bert Cundle

        We Compromise Enough, it becomes, their way! NO COMPROMIZING = WAR OR INDEPENDANCE!

  • http://moniquer7 Merlin

    Some of the comments I have read here are well thought out, from a specific point of view. Others would be funny if they were not so pathetic. One asks us to have an open mind when her’s appears to be more closed than most. There is plenty of blame to go around for the condition that our country is currently end. I will not even attempt to put a label on them. We all need to take a hard look at ourselves and what we contribute to our families and to society. The things that the government can legitimitly give to us are provided for in the constitution. In all other matters the government can only give to one person what it has taken from someone else.

  • wayne937

    For you Conservatives. Do you feel that you have made any headway in trying to convert Karolyn, Eddie47d and the rest of these Communist LIberal to your way of thinking? Unless you just want to continue teasing them mentally and seeing how ignorant they sound when they make a post, then by all means keep on answering their post. I am ready to cease my post with them. You can take a 18″ oak tree push it over. After a while you realize it is impossible so you have to give up.

    • eddie47d

      The feeling has become very mutual Wayne. You can be denser than the Hoover Dam.

      • 45caliber

        Then why are you still on here? Go to Huffington or KOS instead.

      • DaveH

        I would say that you’re dumber than dirt, Eddie, but dirt did nothing to deserve such an insult.

        • eddie47d

          If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Dirt sprouts life so I think I’ll stick around.

          • DaveH

            Of course, what else do trolls do?

          • eddie47d

            Not getting your way again Dave?

  • http://Na. Robert Bradfield

    Hi, its that South African again.

    I have gone through most of the posts written about this article, which I must confess is brilliant from a South African perspective, we are experiencing increasing socialism with our current government as there are several communists in our parliament. I expect that we will be communists before you are.

    Some of my comments, from the outside looking in, about the posts I have read:

    a) It seems that most are playing the blame game, Obama did this or Bush did that and if one differs from this then it becomes a personal attack;
    b) nobody seems to want to discuss the true issue, how do one prevent the scenario described in the article from happening, what can we do to prevent violence, which is in all probability, will occur;
    c) discussing how to survive the coming high inflation, the civil strive, what to save up in food and water, how to protect yourself in these circumstance is to my mind a fatalistic way of approaching the problem. If one knows about a problem then one tries to prevent it, not true?; and
    d) it is only by doing something that one can correct any bad thing from happening; in South Africa we live with the consequences of the saying “when good men do nothing, the bad will do everything”.

    I accept that I am talking out of turn and to try and give guidance to you is far above my ability. You have just had your Independence Day celebrations and I have read your Declaration of Independence and I wish we had something similar to that in 1961 when we became a republic because then we would also have had a document that could guide us to a better type of government. You have it and need to implement what you have in your country for the freedom of all.

    • 45caliber

      Robert:

      You are correct. But I think most of us weren’t aware for a long time of just what is going on here. Now they don’t really care if we know since they believe there is nothing we can do short of revolt to stop them. And I believe they believe that even revolt will not work. They may be right. So what many of us believe is to get ready for the worst case – and hope we are wrong about it coming.

      In South Africa, I believe the biggest mistake you people made was to put Mandella into power. He has set the entire government (from my point of view) into trying to destroy the Zulus while instituting a Communist government for his own tribe. It’s a little late to correct that there, so you have to live with it just as we appear to have to live with it here.

      I do appreciate your comments, though. It is nice to get an outside look at our system since it helps point out the problems BOTH sides have. So keep them coming.

    • DaveH

      That’s what many of us are attempting to do, Robert. But, as the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

      • Kate8

        We spend far too much time and thread space bantering with trolls who insist that there is no problem.

        I agree. We need to be thinking of solutions.

  • Mike

    Lots of interesting comments. Very passionate and all have good points to consider. I struggle with a solution to the crossroads we are at in this country. A hypothetical test that has crossed my mind would be to split the country into two pieces (without all the bloody civil war), liberal and conservative and see who prospers. Oh, but no walls dividing, no military crossings. Anyone can move from one side to the other at any time for any reason based on their hopes, needs and beliefs. What kinds of mental images does this situation bring to mind?

    • 45caliber

      Mike:

      Mental images? One side trying to overturn the other side by moving their own people in to swamp the voting. Sort of like both parties do when they set up new election maps or the Muslims are doing by bringing in more of their own people into certain areas to swell the votes there.

      • Kate8

        45 – I live in what was, not long ago, one of the 2 most conservative counties in CA.

        Several years ago the SF libs started descending on us, and now we just barely squeaked in a conservative Congressman last election. Our local government has gone really liberal.

        It does seem as if it’s a planned thing. Colorado has experienced the same takeover, as have many places. Just look how they’ve been increasing numbers even in Texas and AZ.

        They’re like a plague, an infestation. As they move in, freedoms decrease, regulations increase.

    • DaveH

      Nice to imagine, Mike, but almost impossible to implement.

  • Wendy

    Avarice. The one sin that leads to avarice is ENVY. The liberals unfailingly resort to this weapon of ENVY to lead their masses into voting for them. People wake up. They are using you by using your emotions and your desire to do good to actually make you believe that they, the wealthy, power-hungry communistic leaders, are altruistic philanthropists. Well they are not. They can only retain their power by crippling large groups of people into thinking they are helpless and that the government is the only entity who can save them from the big bad “greedy corporations”, a.k.a. job creators. Honestly, get over the fact that someone else has more than you. That will always be the case. Even in a communist society there will be those few in power who have more than everyone else.

    • eddie47d

      There is Envy among the wealthy also and some will do anything to become even richer. Even being dishonest in their endeavors which hurt everyone else but themselves. Another case in point is the sometimes mindless attacks against unions because they may earn more.(that is envy beyond pale) The right for whatever reason is extremely envious of others.It took decades of hard work for the unions to achieve this footing. The left can be overzealous in wanting a level playing field and works tirelessly for that goal. They sometimes do need to pull back a bit but the right keeps allowing the capitalists to plow full speed ahead with total disregard for the well being of the USA. There have been too many ponzi schemes and corporate misdeeds used against Americans to be laying all this blame on Liberals.

      • 45caliber

        eddie:

        You are correct. There is envy. And there are people who will do dishonest things to get more money. There are laws to punish those who do. What we need is not new laws or a redistribution of money but honest people to punish those who break those laws. And neither side is interested in punishing those. So why do you wish to punish those of us who are NOT breaking the law by taking away our money to do it? Push instead to punish those who are the lawbreakers and let it go at that.

        • Kate8

          45 – What we need is a resoration of our American values of truth, ethics, morality and service to our fellow man.

          There was a time when doing right by your customers and patrons was paramount. Now it’s just get all you can, while you can, and leave the buyer holding the bag if it’s a bad deal.

          When you work to corrupt one area of morality, such as destroying family values, all boundaries crumble.

  • Libertarian

    You say: “The antithesis of freedom is communism”. The correct statement should read: “The antithesis of freedom is Government overbearing intervention”. That was proved by the antithesis of communism, called fascism, which is a derivation of the current system called: “corporatocracy”, as evidence by the whole Bush team and the current Bureau of Propaganda vested in Fox, CNN, ABC and ALL the rest of the main-stream media.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7M-7LkvcVw – What is America’s True Form of Government?

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8045542387672451515# – September Clues

    WAKE UP!

  • melissab

    Always remember one thing… ” YOU ARE WHAT YOU THINK” period! I don’t like Obama and his goons, because I don’t like their minds and they way they think.. Need I say more.

  • Bob from Calif.

    We need to find politicians that truly believe in the Constitution. Politicians that will fight for our rights. Any politicians with intimate globalist connections should not be trusted. I myself do not trust politicians connected with the CFR, Tri-lateral comission or Bilderbergs. Even U.N. connections are suspect. The politicians should be 100% for America first. Look at what they do not at what they say. That is the best way to judge them. Lets keep on our elected representatives and don’t let them get away with anything. They need to know that we are watching.

  • wP

    Progressive policies in response to the criminal 20-30′s and Great Depression led to the greatest middle class in the world. So this guy is an incorrigible idiot, along with many other right-wingers. Being a progressive is not democratic or republican — there were democratic and republican progressives planted progressive poloicies then! And they worked for all, not the the criminal few elites who brought about the Great Depression. So when the right-wingers undid most of the progressive regulations, we got the current Great Depression II. So guy and other right-wingers and the criminal elites that brought about the curent financial meltdown should be brought to justice — Commit Suicide Now You Evil and Stupid Scoundrels!

  • i41

    edde. spoken like a true socialist ward of the government, the envy is by what drives marxist/communist wiggy. Too damn worthless to create something for themselves. They have been told from the time they are in preschool follow the norm and get along and got along. Go down to any damn worthless reservation and see how f–ked up the tribe owning every thing and getting paid for doing nothing has worked out. I had some reservation members contact me about farming a large amount of farmground for them. The problem is the tribal members can go to any college and get any degree, but the tribal members said their people have no motivation to work or produce anything, that would make money for themselves. The old ones down to the 40 year olds said the government care has destroyed their people. All the people want to do is feast,drink and non stop parting. Several older members have asked to operate equipment, which would employee several members. The USA citizens have become just as lazy and need to have entertainment at all times. A nation of pusified wimps and first class f–k offs, until the government sow is dried up and sent to the packing plant it will never change. Onumnutts is a prime example a worthless over educated dumb bas-ard that knows nothing and is a non stop liar.

  • Jack

    The more unlimited legal and illegal immigration the less capitalistic we will become. We are literally importing our demise.

  • Mad Max

    Is this guy kidding? He doesn’t know the first about freedom or capitalism. This country is full of suckers and incompetence. The blind leading the blind to disaster. If half these fools knew what they were talking about, this country wouldn’t be in this mess.

    Wake up people. Don’t be a fool until it’s too.

    FIGHT THE CAUSE – NOT THE SYMPTOM
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

    “Spread the News”

  • melissab

    Karolyn,

    You posted ” the best jobs in the world are the ones where you get paid for helping people”… WRONG, the best jobs in the world are where you help a life with love and charity, not for pay!!! As for stopping rape with education, WRONG AGAIN… you help by not voteing in all these liberal idiot Judges letting people off with a slap on the hand and setting them free to rape again..

    • karolyn

      Totally missed the point, melissa! If I did not HAVE to work, I would volunteer my services. Unfortunately, I am not independently wealthy! The point is having a job that results in doing good is, to me, the ultimate form of employment. And, believe me, the financial pay is meager. And, you are way off base about how to stop crimes against women! Punishment does not stop crime! Education does. We need to educate our young (and old) to respect women. In matriarchal societies, rape and domestic violence is very low or non-existant. Also, in less sexually-repressive societies, like France, the rape rate is low.

      • http://none Stephen Tareila

        the reported rate? I think the French socialist leader has finally been accused by someone(French) who claimed he attacked her(in France) years ago. I’ll bet more come forward..

  • i41

    wP, are you a pavement pounding spawn for some east or west coast hippy family. The Great Depression, was a bunch of worthless educated f–ks who never did a damn thing in life, but create more government intervention in everything. The Dept of Ag was dreamed up by a wanna be dictator FDR and his Sec of Ag, an avowed communist, that turn private land over to government control that has increased with every marxist/communist democrat Prez. That is where your food production happens, not in Wall Street and banks, idiot. wP you are so full of s–t about ending regulations, in the mid 60′s ag producers had the option of getting out of the Farm Program.The food production went into high gear and we had the best trade balance and the freedom to produce something usefull showed on the world’s market. The the dems and Nixon decided to use food a a weapon and it sure opened up South America up to food production, but it has no system of transporation. In 1980 50 million acres of farmland was taken out of production by the marxist/communist democrats to raise grain prices and help the worthless wildlife, which farming provides the food for wildlife not governemnt. So wP you are one must be a public sckool communist lab rat or are a college trained moron fresh out of mommy’s house.

  • melissab

    Karolyn,

    Then we find ourselves at a cross roads. And I didnt miss understand you at all! Maybe you should move to France, they have the same system you want to change us into… As far as real punishment, send a man to Jail for life and I can honestly tell you , he will never rape again…As for education, hows that workin out? less crime? NOT! Also, you might want to think a little more about telling people such personal things about yourself.. not educated in safty, are you!

    • 45caliber

      mellisab:

      Sorry but if you simply send a man to jail the rest of his life he will almost certainly rape someone again! It will probably be the man he is sharing his cell with. But it could also be a guard, many of whom are women. I’d just as soon send him to the gas chamber and get it over with. Why keep him locked up for the rest of his miserable life? Get it over with already!

  • Thinking About

    Welfare goes from generation to generation seems to follow in farm handouts. It is time to reign in Big Pharma and many other corporations who look to the tax payers to fund them. We can not afford it anymore. Why should tax payers give in order for out of this world compensation to their executives. If they truly believe in capitalism then make it on their worth and be willing to give up government dollars

  • melissab

    Dear 45Caliber,

    You are 100% right.. I tredded to lightly with Miss Karolyn.I beleive like you.. I see scum everyday,who hurt and kill people and the courts let them off to turn around and do it again…I beleive if you take a life, rape someone or in any way hurt a child, you forfit your life, period…

    • Kate8

      melissab – One problem is that we’ve got judges and politicians who are guilty of such crimes and more, so they tend to be lenient.

      • 45caliber

        Kate:

        I agree with you. Several years ago a judge in Montana turned two boys who had raped a girl loose because “she was dressed sexually so it was really her fault.”

        This was winter at about 30 below. She wore long johns, jeans, a blouse, a sweater, and a coat. That is being dressed sexually? They finally got rid of the judge but he was appointed and it took awhile.

  • FWO21

    This is what the word means and I believe it is learned. The more money you have the more friends you have. It’s greed, like the politicians and billionaires. The more they have, the more they want and if they can’t get more money because that doesn’t satisfy them anymore, then what they want to do is control every facet of your life.

    av·a·ri·cious [àvvə ríshəss]
    adj
    greedy for wealth: showing an unreasonably strong desire to obtain and keep money

    -av·a·ri·cious·ly, , adv
    -av·a·ri·cious·ness, , n
    Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

  • Jim Monroe

    You have no freedom when your Republican party is ruled by business elites like the koch Brothers who willing pollute the air (oh, wait: freedom to pollute…) and buy elections (freedom to own politicians – and you know they have outspent Soros and democratic contributors 20:1). Enjoy!

  • Barney Murrell

    The content of anti-government posting on this site is so ignorant of reality it is a wonder some of you people can find your rear to wipe it when required.

    From the 1700s to the 1930s, United States government primarily served the interests of American aristocracy at the expense of men, women, and children of working class Americans who were underpaid, underfed, and overworked. Thus, the Constitution, as originally implemented in law, applied only to white Anglo-Saxons who were either born to wealth or were smart and ruthless enough to obtain it.

    In the 1800s, for example, America’s politics and economics was influenced by a small number of very wealthy “free market capitalists” (Flagler, Carnegie, Mellon, Morgan, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, etc) who used money to influence government and trusts and monopolies to eliminate competition and gain control over a disproportionate amount of American wealth. With millions of dollars a year income in an age of little or no income tax, they accumulated fortunes, but still they worked men, women and children of their blue-collar work force to death.

    History of “bad old days” of conservatism is shown in child labor photographs 1908-1912 by Lewis W. Hines: http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/childlabor/index.html. And these children worked to help their families survive, and not to buy a fancier carriage.

    There is no “Class Warfare” coming from the bottom up, but there is individual and group response to wealthy conservative plutocrats who have spent two+ centuries economically rape, robbing, and pillaging lower economic classes. Conservatives blame the victim for suffering from difficulties beyond their control (“Outsourcing: Who’s Save Anymore,” http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_08/b3871032_mz007.htm), then criticize their efforts to alleviate their suffering.

    On a more recent note the conservative mantra of deregulation – which actually started with Carter but accelerated under the Reagan administration – allowed the S&L scandals, Enron-World Com collapses, etc. And Reagan’s excessive defense spending, and Bush’s unpaid wars, while cutting taxes, have come closer to destroying America than the efforts of Nazi Germany, Tojo’s 1930-40s Japan, or Russian Communism.

  • Pete

    The Tortoise has spoken wisely ! I especially like Mr. Ringer’s reference to “Atlas Shrug-like bureaucracies such as the Environmental Protection Agency, the NLRB and the Department of Education, … ”

    HA HA ! What’s going to happen next ? Will we have a violent capitalist revolution ? Just like in “Atlas Shrug” ? That would be great – maybe some day soon ?

    COULD ALL YOU SEE IT ! It would be awesome ! These could become even more interesting times !!

  • Bill

    Although we have some companies that fit Crony Socialism (Capatilism is the free exchange of goods and services between free parties to the exchange; wehereas when govt is involved it is compelled/coerced actions). For example most blame the banks and are ignorant of the Community Reinvestment Act (originally written in the 70s under Jimmy Carter) it encouraged Banks to loan to those who could not pay it back. Then in the Clinton era mid 90s rewritten by Frank and Dodd, such loans became compulsory and with quotas that increased over time. As Cuomo said when Citibank was sued for 2.6 Billion $, yes, it will undermine the safety and security of the banking industry, but we will spread it around. That’s how the banks began doing subprime loans – because they had to do CRA loans. That’s why it took about 9 yearss to come to fruition with run away housing prices, and then when prices turned down and interest rates went up, people couldn’t make payments that had increased and couldn’t sell their home (as they could when prices were going up). It was not Capitalism that ruined the housing market, it was Progressive/Socialist/Communist thought that said take from the producers (people who work and make money) and let the Looters (politicians) give to the moochers (poor/minorities) for their vote. Has it stopped – No I saw on TV the Family Workers Party using CRA and an Obama banking program, handing out more subprime loans (the only way you can give a loan to the poor, who otherwise don’t qualify AT 2% adjusting upwards every few years to up to 2% each time. What happens when inflation ticks up, so will their payments – possibly doubling in as little as 2 years. The bubble will happen again and the foolish will blame the banks, even though they argued against this bill. Even though Bush sent economists 11 times to the Dem controlled House and Senate and begged them to change this. Fannie and Freddy guaranteed (ie the Tax Payer) every one of those loans. We are on the hook again, because of Progressive dreams of crashing the country so a new benevolent dictatorship of the proletariat will arise from it ashes to force everyone to the same equal outcome – by treating everyone unequally and as a Progressive Screen writer recently said – redistribute your freedom.

    The Founders had it right – keep govt out of the economy. Just make trade between the states regular (ie no tariffs between states). We have morphed to a govt that involves itself in the economy with all the evil corruption it breeds and our freedom that hungrily consumes.
    All in the name of giving you something (that requires they take it from someone else).

  • melissab

    Kate8… So true! The police arrest them and when the time comes for court, they get off… Top down cleaning needs to take place. Thank you, Blessings,M

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