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Survey Shows Support For Healthcare Reform Plummeting

February 16, 2010 by  

Survey shows support for healthcare reform plummeting As Democrats ponder the uncertain future of their healthcare overhaul plan, a new poll has found that public support for the current reform proposal may be eroding.

The Harris Interactive/HealthDay poll, conducted Feb. 3-5, suggests that although half of all Americans want some form of healthcare reform in the next two years, almost 40 percent do not want the legislation sponsored by the Democrats and the White House to form the basis for that reform, according to HealthDay.

John C. Goodman of the National Center for Policy Analysis in Dallas said the results point to the American people’s loss of confidence in Congress and the White House.

"They’ve been soured on this," he said, quoted by the news source, adding that there was too much focus on the painful aspects of the reform—such as how to pay for it, whose taxes to raise and what benefits to cut—than on what people would gain from it.

Following last month’s surprise win of Scott Brown (R-Mass.) in a special Senate election, which led to the Democrat’s loss of a filibuster-proof majority, the party’s leadership decided not to proceed with the current healthcare bill but to reopen negotiations with the GOP.

However, the two sides have not yet come to an agreement on whether to begin from scratch or try to rework the bill that was passed by the House of Representatives last December.
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  • republicanblack

    The biggest problem in this health debate is education. We the people of the united states have failed when it comes to civics and history. I myself, a republican, was all worried about mandates and unconstitutionality of the health care bill, and I was TOTALLY wrong. If we knew our history support would be up, here is the proof,

    http://bit.ly/constitnmandate

    • Warrior

      Our government is broke and corrupt. It needs to be cleansed. No more government programs until they clean up all the existing failed ones.

      • Cel

        We need to elect the everyday people…….get the lawyers out…they turn out to be crooks…

        Overhaul entitlements.

        **

      • Franciso

        I agree – obama and his administration are out of control.

    • Michael J.

      republicanblack,
      I read the site that you posted. As I suspected, just another long winded speil that ended with the two words “General Welfare”. These words are routinely taken out of context by Progressives to justify their latest appropriations scam.

      And by the way, the use of the word “education” in a disparaging way
      has become a signature talking point of Progressive/Liberals and is a dead give away as to your political persuasion. So do us all a favor and drop the Republican pretense.

      • s c

        You’re probably right, Michael J. I’m tired of political cross-dressers who try to act as though they’re conservatives who have “seen the light.” A pox on all of them.
        Obummer is full of it. People who claim to be ‘this’ and are really ‘that’ are also full of it (define “it” any way you choose). It’s amazing how an ultraliberal progressive can read ANYTHING into the Constitution. Someone please show me where the Constitution says America is obligated to reward self-made LOSERS who expect to sponge off the rest of us.
        Add republicanblack to the master list of pretenders, ultraliberal progressives and wannabe useful idiots (like the world doesn’t already have too many of them).

        • denniso

          Sure, let’s leave the people at the mercy of the giant insurance co’s and healthcare industry,after all, the industry is doing very well…if you could make millions of $$/year,wouldn’t you want to keep the status quo,despite the real damage to people and the country? Of course,the 20,000 who die every year due to lack of care don’t matter,and we are a predominantly Christian country,so why should we care about the less fortunate anyway? Jesus had nothing to say about taking care of your neighbor,did he??

          • JeffH

            denisso,
            I have one question I’d appreciate an answer to.
            Do you support the Democrat’s current Health Care Bill proposal just for the sake of getting something passed, or do you support “real” Health Care reform, which would require starting from scratch and bipartisan co-operation.
            I know it is a pretty generalized question but please don’t deviate from the question with an answer. Thank you.

          • Joe H.

            JeffH,
            I hope you didn’t hold your breath waiting!hehe We need you here!!!

          • Cel

            This kind of talk is sick……..

            My husband had 40 years in HEALTH CARE….and I worked in it for years, our hospital never turned anyone away….and I do not know anyone who was….
            Our country has always helped others.

            Liberal people hate America….go somewhere else….

            Why do you think everyone wants to come here? because we take care of them.

            ***

          • denniso

            JeffH…I hate the idea of mandates in the health reform plan and we should have at the very least a good public option…but,the repubs have NEVER pushed reform and have fought tooth and nail for their constituency,the ins industry. The repubs politicized the issue,like they did in ’92, so at this point almost any bill that forces the industry to stop their immoral and inhuman treatment of people who pay to be covered would be positive. The repubs will NEVER go along w/ ANY reforms at all,because they represent the corporate control of our healthcare. If I could write a bill it would look way different because I would take private corporations entirely out of healthcare. The huge profits generated at the expense of people’s misery is utterly immoral and anti Christian.

          • JC

            denniso, the solution to too much much government still isn’t “more government”. I don’t think the majority of people understand just how much government there is involved with the system as it stands now.

          • Time

            Dude look at Greece, as in the country, they have this form of Health Care plan you think we should have.
            As well so to Spain, Italy, and many other countrys that are about to go 100% down the tubes. Germany had to pull the plug on 50% of what they had, and its still a drain on them, as for France they to have had to pull the plug on over 50% of the plan they use. Russia’s same plan, need I say anything more really?

            Just for the record, we also have such a Government Health Care plan its called MedicAID, Please note just how well thats doing. DUH!

            Get real. Stop with this naive diatribe over and over. READ something other than the Barry commic books witn all the sound bite’s.

          • Franciso

            Why do people keep saying that about the insurance companies. I’m very happy with my insurnace plan and given the fact that I have cancer, I’m sure you can understand how expensive my treatments are. but I wake up every day and thank God. It’s just like listening to these women that complain because they have rent to pay, utlities, cell phone bill, and five kids with five different fathers and then they have the nerve to say “I’M A SINGLE MOTHER”….NO DUH!! I have three son’s and a good husband whom takes care and ensures that our medical needs are taken care of. How is it my husband can take care of his family and HE HAS TO TAKE CARE OF EVERYONE ELSES????? Don’t get me wrong, we donate to charities – money, time and necessities. But these folks have to be willing to do for themselves..and not always depending on the kindness of others ALL THE TIME.

          • JeffH

            denisso, based on your answer, I can come to the conclusion that you do not support the Democrat’s Health Care Bill that they are trying to force on some American citizens.

          • cr747

            Franciso, Very good comment,, I’m with you.. My wife battled breast cancer in 1993-94 after surgery,, had all the chemo,, then radiation.. it was a tough battle,, but thanks to GOD,, and Prayers,, she is cancer free today.. She was only 38 years old at the time..
            May GOD Bless you,, and keep you in His hands,, My prayers are with you. Stay strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Luckily we had good ins. and still do.. I wouldn’t trade it for anything the government is trying to cram down our throats.. They want except what they are trying to push on us for themselves,, so evidently it is no good.. Why don’t they give us the same coverage they have,, we are paying for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • denniso

            JeffH…I support the healthcare reform bills in congress because we have to start somewhere w/ reform. To the people who have insurance,what are you complaining about? No plan would force you to change anything…you would only have the right to not be canceled if you get sick and could get ins if you have a pre existing condition. The palns also are trying to get millions more people into the ins pool and fix the most dysfunctional aspect of our society. If there is anyone alive in this country who hasn’t heard the thousands of stories of bankruptcy and cancellation of policies by the ins corporations and the spiraling costs that are dragging down our entire economy,including hurting the competiveness of our large companies, is blind or deaf or just a partisan hack.

    • George E

      Thanks for sharing the article. The author makes logical arguments. Basically, if I understand what he’s saying, it’s basically that the government can imply the authority to do just about anything it wants to do in order to serve the public good. Using this argument, the government could legally tell us what car to buy, what food to eat, basically everything we do. I think there have to be limits on that line of thinking. Generally, when questions like this come up, one should go back to the founding documents for guidance. In this case, there may be conflicting principles; ie, public good vs. individual freedom and responsibility. I guess this is why we have courts, but I sure hope we don’t keep going down the path of the “nanny” state because that just makes subjects out of our citizens and invites an authoritarian state.

      • Cel

        Yes…..it is all about “power and control” …

        BIG government wants to run our lives….they have too much control now…and that is not enough for them.

        Democrats have always felt that they have to tell us when to eat, when to go to bed…..look at Nancy Pelosi…she called the “tea party” people rednecks because they are upset because they do not want her telling them what to do…..

        *****

        • J C

          Giving the government the power of life and death is like giving teen aged boys whiskey and car keys. It’s a wreck waiting to happen.

          • Franciso

            Excellent J.C. True, true and true

        • cr747

          Goggled eyed Pelosi is not going to be able to tell anyone what to do when her time is up.. She will go down like a balloon with a hole in it.. She reminds me of some of the big Frogs I have in my lake in Texas sitting on a lily pad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • cr747

          Pelosimino, don’t even know what a redneck is.. Wait until some of the rednecks get a hold of her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • DaveH

      Citing previous over-extensions of Constitutionally-allowed Federal powers does not make a case for the continuation of that abuse.

    • Arkham Grundy

      It is astonishing, given our greed driven, inefficient, for profit, healthcare system that leaves millions bankrupt or without proper care, that anyone can oppose reform.

      It is even more interesting that so many who consider themselves good Christians are so worried that someone else may benefit from their tax dollar.

      Did Jesus ask for and insurance card or passport before healing anyone? Time to expunge hypocrisy.

      As far as “socialized health care”… this is nonsense. Many who oppose health care reform love their medicare… don’t they realize that this is a government program?

      The fire department, which everyone correctly respects, is a government program as are law enforcement, the military, etc. These are not considered socialist institutions.

      Who do you want between you and your doctor? … an insurance jerk who lives to deny claims?

      • George E

        Arkham,

        There are good ways and bad ways of reforming healthcare. Most of us on this board think the Democratic plan is a bad one. We’re OK with helping the truly needy, and we all sure want to reduce the cost if possible, but we don’t want a government take-over of the system. Start the process over, take time to craft a good bipartisan plan and vet it before the American people to get their support. Then we’ll jump in the boat with you. What’s wrong with this approach? If you really want healthcare reform, this is the way to get it. Anything less, will be disasterous..

        • cr747

          George, If the democrats thinks it is so good wonder why they don’t take it out on themselves.. I say they give us the same coverage they have,, because we are having to pay for theirs.. I think I have said this a dozen times.. You are right George!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Michael J.

        Arkham,
        Why do you repeat worn out Keith Olberman talking points when you know that absolutely NO ONE oposes REAL health reform. By the same token, only the blind desciples of the Messiah continue to repetitiously rapture the mantra of Obamacare. The vast majority of Americans don’t want Obamacare, don’t you get it yet?

      • Cel

        “worry about our tax dollars”???

        Hey, we owe them to China.

        We can not sustain the debt….

        Entitlements have got to STOP…..

        We now provide free health care in our ER 24/7

        AND meds are provided for the poor.

        *****

        • Time

          CEL, We do allready and its breaking the TAX payers backs as it is.

          This HCR is nothing less than controll of “your life” from Birth to Grave. Thats just how simple it is.

      • Franciso

        This healthcare reform hasn’t got anything to do with CHRISTIAN’s. Get over it………it’s just another way of the Government trying to take full CONTROL of your life and everything you’ve got.

      • Robert Stuhrman

        I suggest you Google Medicare Claim denial. You will find out that Medicares denial rate is as bad as the worst insurance company. Don’t write until you understand what you are talking about.

    • Cel

      Health Care in not something that should be an entitlement. My parents raised 9 children. Not the government, but my parents.
      We have become a nation that depends on government. Our country can not sustain all these entitlements.
      The fraud in Health Care should be looked into…I wrote our President and Governor years ago about it.

      ***

    • David F

      From the website you recommended:

      “The health of society is a general welfare; devising a system that adds to the ability of society to guard against sickness and increase access to treatment is providing for the common defense; not having 45 million people potentially one sickness away from bankruptcy or death and preventing thousands more from dying because they lack insurance is insuring domestic tranquility.”

      The problem with ObamaCare is that it does not meet the “general welfare” criteria: it will penalize those who have adequate coverage; it will result in rationing health care; and it will not cover all people currently uninsured. Moreover, it gives the government unprecedented power to intrude on one’s personal privacy and make life or death decisions regarding health care treatment.

      I agree with others’ posts who identify the “general welfare” rhetoric as a “progressive” (read “communist”) view of the role of government.

  • Tim

    There is still a chance to get health care reform legislation passed and signed into law by Obama relatively soon. The Democrats are working on a compromise bill between the House and the Senate. Hopefully it will have some public option. Republicans will be welcome at next week’s meeting with the White House to offer their ideas, but I don’t think they will take advantage of it. They would rather keep the insurance companies happy, by maintaining the status quo. Our country can’t sustain that indefinitely. Anyway, the Republicans are only interested in one thing: See the president fail.

    The voters who elected Scott Brown into the Senate also were in favor of a public option. The reason for that, was that the Massachusetts Health Care program they have doesn’t have one, because it is almost identical to the Senate Health Care bill, which was passed by 60 votes right before Christmas.

    The bottom line is, we need a bill that does the following:

    1) Offers universal coverage
    2) Increases competition
    3) Brings down to cost of health care
    4) Emphasizes Prevention
    5) Has life time caps on costs
    6) Has a public option

    • Scott

      I agree with the first five, but no public option, and no mandates

    • Allan

      I suspect a majority of voters will have some of the following thoughts…

      1) Offers universal coverage
      For starters, not to illegals. Gotta fix that first.
      2) Increases competition
      Can’t “increase competition” and offer a competing public option at the same time. Basic care clinics maybe. The more the govt gets out of the way, the more competition will occur.
      3) Brings down the cost of health care.
      Prove you can do tort reform, and we’ll see from there.
      4) Emphasizes Prevention
      Effectiveness of prevention is questionable…better idea is consequences for costly lifestyle choices. Got to give Obama some credit for mentioning this a while back, but it wasn’t in the healthcare bill. The pocketbook, not hopes and good intentions, is what changes behavior the most and the fastest.
      5) Has life time caps on costs.
      Unrealistic…no government program ever achieved it on any scale.
      6) Has a public option.
      Even if you trust government to be fair and honest, no employer would hire it, based on its resume, for the biggest job in America. Obama would be better off convening with all parties, insurers, employers, doctors, drug companies together and out in the open for a change, and ASKING what will work instead of pursuing a naive ideology surrounded by people with little to no real world business experience. They’ll need to defer to the free market because most Americans don’t want to leave their healthcare to a politically-motivated, poor performing, remote entity.

    • Norm

      Tim
      Has life time caps on costs? What happens if you exceed this amount. Do you get tossed to the wolves?

    • J C

      Add
      1) Line Ups.
      2) Dying while on a waiting list for treatment.
      3) Bureacratic waste of money. (high level cost / low level service)
      4) Fewer Doctors.
      5) Fewer Nurses.
      6) Revolving Door style care.
      7) Old people forced to deal with “End of Life Issues”.(too early)
      8) More government doesn’t solve what too much government caused.

      It’ll be a regular “Utopia” Kamrades.

      • David Long

        J.C. That’s what we have now! Stop that comrade fear stuff. We are a democracy. We are the government. Are we to be afraid of ourselves? Our current system lets people die if they cannot afford medical care. Our system bankrupts families when no other universal health care system permits that. Socialism is the term the medical/health care industry have employed to scare people and avoid change. It was first used by their PR firms back in the 1940′s to kill health care for all, and it is still being used, with some success I guess, to this day.Our medicare/medicaid system is socialism. Our veterans medical system is a public program (socialism.)All our elected representatives in Congress, the President, the Supreme Court, all are on a public medical program. Social security is socialism Our public library system is socialism. Our US military, Army, Marines, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, etc, is socialism. Our public school system is socialism.
        We need universal health care and we need it now. There are more people dying each year because they have no medical coverage than all the people who died on 9/11. We are paying more for health care coverage because uninsured people pass that bill onto you and me by going to the emergency room for care. We need to tell our “little boys and girls” to stop cowering in the corner and get it done! Even some of these people complain against socialism when they have it themselves! Why pay a 30 percent fee to a company who will then take my premium and pay doctors? Why can’t I give my payment to my doctor for a much less fee, say 5 percent? We can! It’s called a single payer system. Private heath care, private doctors, private hospitals, etc, but we have a public system that just collects the fees and pays the bills! Oh yes, it’s called medicare for all!

        • George E

          I appreciate your zeal for passing healthcare reform, but the current legislation is flawed beyond repair. Just a few reasons are 1) it won’t bring the cost down when you add up the premiums and the cost to taxpayers, 2) it won’t improve competition because the government doesn’t know how to compete in a free market, and 3) it isn’t fair because our politicians have excluded themselves and their families from it, and unions, among others, get special deals that the rest of us don’t get. Also, the current bills were written so fast that no one really knows exactly what’s in them. They need to be vetted before the American people and cleaned up before enacting them into law. Personally, I prefer starting the whole process all over to try to get it right, not just getting it quickly. I predict that if the Democrats don’t do this, they will pay a terrible price at the polls in coming elections.

        • DaveH

          Government has created the current mess with their meddling, and you want more? Apparently your associates are dwindling in numbers:
          http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/december_2009/just_34_say_passing_health_care_bill_is_better_than_passing_nothing

          Einstein, definition of insanity: “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”

          • JeffH

            Yea!!!

          • coal miner

            DaveH,

            Albert Einstein was a liberal,so was George Orwell,his real name(Eric Arthur Blair).You quote a lot of liberals,not to like them.

          • Joe H.

            Coal scabber,
            I’ll quote someone else then. Patriotism is supporting your country always, and your government when they deserve it!!!! Mark Twain!!!!

          • JC

            Nothing wrong with quoting “classic” Liberals. They are a very different animal than the Liberal of today.

          • libertytrain

            JC – you said exactly what I was thinking.

        • Allan

          Sorry, throwing out what a large majority wishes to keep makes no sense. The public knows what it wants. Heard yet another Democratic strategist saying this morning that “the administration just needs to make its message more clear”. Wow. What part of no don’t Democrats understand? Congress had better scrap the social engineering and LISTEN to the voters, because minds will be made up way sooner than usual for the coming election. A few politicans will abandon ship, but the rest will go bet on the voters being stupid. Hopefully we can scare them in the Fall, and get a few problems addressed while they are in a cooperative mood.

        • J C

          The system is as messed up as it now because of cronyism and over regulation by the existing system of too much government. And you feel that more government is the answer to too much government?

          As for a democracy representing the people…give me a break! As if!
          Democracy simply does not work. It can not sustain itself. And in America it is at the end of a predictably short life span. The Founders knew this and that is why they set us up with a Republic…not a Democracy.

          Limit government and let people work out their own survival needs.
          You’ll see a lot more responsible people and a lot less dependants that way.

    • Dan

      I like your 6 points except for the following slight flaws:

      #1 – Universal coverage – Egalitarianism – always sounds great, never works.
      #2 – Increases competition? Good idea, but government has their hands on infinite subsidies from taxpayer money, private businesses don’t – how is that going to make it “competitive”?
      #3 – Bringing down the cost of health care – no kidding! But this can only be done by reducing costs, the biggest being frivolous lawsuits and stupid government regulations (no crossing state lines). Tort reform has got to happen.
      #4 – Emphasize prevention. Medical insurance companies already do that.
      #5 – Caps on costs? Doesn’t work. This is just price controls that create shortages. RE: Economics 101
      #6 – Public option – smoke screen to drive private business out of business due to the reality of #2 above.

      Bottom line is socialized medicine is a disaster as proven everywhere it’s tried (UK, Canada, etc.) We need less government involvement, not more.

      • DaveH

        Well done Dan.

      • J C

        For sure Dan, wait’ll they see what it costs when it’s free.

    • Michael J.

      Tim,
      The main reason that Brown won was because he vowed to be the 41st vote against Obamacare.The people of Massachusetts already have the similar Romneycare and they know it stinks.

      I agree with your list of reforms except #4,5 and 6 which are all #2 as far as I’m concerned.

      And as far as I can see, the President will fall under his own weight without the help of anyone else.

      • Joe H.

        Michael J.,
        Good comment, especially when you read between the lines er numbers!!!

    • George E

      Tim,

      It’s impossible to add 30 million people to the system, telling them that now they’re now going to get “free” healthcare, without driving up the cost overall, unless you cut back on services to some. Human nature is such that anytime people think they’re getting something for free, they will ask/demand more of it than they would if they were paying for it out of their pocket. This is probably one of the reasons Medicare costs are rising so quickly. Also, I see absolutely no sane reason for us to pay for the same level of healthcare insurance for illegal immigrants that we provide to our citizens. I know we have to provide illegals with basic healthcare (like we’re giving them at the emergency rooms now), but not the same level as we pay for ourselves, for God’s sake. These people aren’t supposed to be in this country anyway. If we feel the need to give them healthcare insurance, why don’t we put them on Social Security and pay them a pension as well? Where is the insanity going to stop?

      • J C

        Agreed George, nothing is free. The more simple minded among us seem to think that if it comes from government…it’s free. Problem is, the government produces nothing. If they did it would be produced by people you wouldn’t hire doing a job you don’t need done at a cost no one could afford anyway.
        So they just keep robbing middle America in order to bring about the demise of…middle America.

    • Cel

      No, the Republicans are not only interested in seeing Obama fail.
      This is crazy….just because we want “transparency” and we do not like other thins going on…..

      We are concerned citizens.

      We were promised a lot of things. ….didn’t happen.

      Now that the Democrats have “their” health care written out they want us to come sigh in on it….

      Do you really think this is fair?

      If my fiends invited me over for a movie….but only the last 5 minutes ……does that sound right?

      Get real and get off “Party”

      That is what is wrong now in Washington.

      That is why I say….get all of them out and start over….

      Look …it is okay to ‘bash” the tea party people…but then when Obama is bashed…..that is bad right ???

      We want real ..CHANGE

      small GOVERNMENT

      ***

      ****

    • Time

      Compromise is not an option, this whole plan is 100% wrong in all respects.

  • http://BobLivingston Betty

    The people in Mass. Said KILL THE BILL. To everybody I have talked to says It is a NAZI HEALTHCARE PLAN. And they are SO RIGHT. Obama thinks just like Hitler. Maybe WORSE. He wants to rule the WHOLE WORLD. He hates God. He is Dictating our children too. He wants Total Power and Contol.

    • Norm

      Betty
      The key flaw in your entry is “everybody I have talked to says”. It’s like the blind leading the blind. Get the facts from one or more RELIABLE sources.

      • George E

        Norm,

        Betty has a right to her opinion based on her anecdotal information. She doesn’t have to do research before giving an opinion.

        • Joe H.

          George,
          that’s right, Norm does, doesn’t he????

      • Michael J.

        Norm,
        The key flaw in your entry is, “it’s like the blind leading the blind”.
        In Obamacare, blind people would likely be euthanized for being nonproductive members of the collective whose health and care is therefore unsustainable.

        Also, my relatives who may be forced to move from Massachusetts because of taxes, Big Digs and the prospects of Obamacare which is like Romneycare to the 10th power, voted for Brown. In my view, people with first hand experience are a reliable source.

        • Norm

          Michael J.
          I live 50 miles from the Mass border. If I had a vote, I would have gone with Brown as well. He is a good centrist Republican. We need more like him, and less like Demint, and Boehner(?).

      • DaveH
        • Norm

          DaveH
          And just think it was supported by governor Mitt Romney and state senator Scott Brown.

      • Time

        Norm, from who YOU? Yea that and 100 trillion dollars will fix about anything.

    • J C

      There are a great many comparisons between Obama and Hitler. Hitler could actually speak to a crowd though.

      • Norm

        J C
        Made by idiots!

        • Michael J.

          Norm,
          There are a great many comparisons between Obama and Hitler, and also between Obama and Mao, Stalin and Chavez. The first three are dead so you should call Chavez to see if he has an opening in his propaganda machine because the way things are going here, you will likely be layed off soon.

        • J C

          Actually students of history will see a good many comparisons. Especially in the atmosphere of American National Socialism we’re now enjoying(?). But you can call them idiots if you like. Whatever you’re able to relate to is ok by me. :)

        • Norm

          Once again, Hitler hated communism. National Socialism was not even socialism. but a right wing dictatership.

          • George E

            Norm,

            Did Hitler hate communism or Stalin? Hitler wanted total control over everything, which is exactly what Stalin achieved in the Soviet Union. They actually had a lot in common, but didn’t trust each other because they both wanted total control. Here’s an interesting video that gives a view of government from a conservative/libertarian point of view. You may find it interesting as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y43a6BsNQb4

        • Time

          Norm now go to back to bed your getting dumber by the day.

          • Norm

            Time
            Brillient comment!!

      • s c

        J C, thanks for reminding us that Hitler could communicate WITHOUT a teleprompter. He didn’t graduate from Haavid, and he didn’t rely on support from dead voters. Beyond that, Hitler was proud to be the head of national socialism (while Obummer can’t admit much of anything, let alone the fact that it’s possible to combine socialism, communism and fascism in American politics).
        Without trying to be a consummate pessimist, I will admit that Obummer has kept us out of wars with other planets. Even Hitler couldn’t make THAT claim.

        • J C

          Yeah, bastard though he was….the man could motivate a people.

          • Norm

            J C
            He could motivate right wing extremists like you.

          • JC

            I’m not a right wing extremist Norm. My reaction to everything you socialist do is in self defense. Other than that I’m very much a live and let live guy. I will however defend my life, my property and my freedom with deadly force…so don’t tread on me.
            Now, off you go for your decaf latte.

          • George E

            Norm,

            What was “right-wing” about the Nazis? Why do you think they had more in common with right-wingers than left-wingers?

          • JC

            Good Point George, It does seem to ne the left pushing for National Socialism doesn’t it? The German word for that was “Nazi”.

    • Cel

      I don’t agree with you on everything you said….but that is okay.

      Obama has said that he went to a Muslim school and on those records he is stated as being a Muslim. He has said that he converted over. and sit in Rev. Wrights church 20 years.

      Now, I do not believe that in 20 years he never heard his minister rant and rave like he did on that video…..did he lie???..”yes”

      Why ?? because he wanted “Power”

      He said he could not denounce Rev. Wright….did he ? yes….

      Why? he wanted “Power”

      GOOGLE and see if you can find out how he got into Harvard, and who paid for it….

      I have never felt good about a lot of things that there are no answers for.

      My own parents when meeting my friends for the first time…wanted to know where they came from, who their parents were….

      Why should we not want this from our leaders?

      Google….”Rashad Hussain”…this is a man who has been on Obama’s staff…just appointed to a new position last week. If he had not appointed him to this position we would not know about him….check it out……

      This administration is a never ending explosion……I am beginning to think that Obama does not know any …..I hate to say Americans…well there is Robert Gibbs….

      ***

  • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

    I’m will ti listen to anybody’s example of a number #1(one) money- making industry in America not being corrupt! I’ll also listen if someone can give me an example of any successful government program that was actually even efficient and more effective than privately run enterprise!

    • Scott

      Social Security worked well for years, until the politicians couldn’t keep their hands out of the cookie jar. We now see how that worked out!!

      • Dan

        Pray tell, how did the Republicans get their hands in the cookie jar? It was the Democratic Congress in the ’60s that voted to make SS part of the General Fund, thus opening it up to all kinds of pork grabbing by ALL the politicians.

      • Norm

        Scott
        I agree, using SS dollars to finance wars etc. was/is criminal. The fund should be flush with cash, but instead it’s a pile of IOU’s payable by us taxpayers.

        • jim

          So you wan’t the same people who couldn’t keep their hands off of S.S. and screwed up our retiement to run our health care too?When you see the failure off most government programs, why do you want them to do more? This is suposed to be a representitive government. The poles show most Americans don’t want it. Represent that and don’t cram it down our thoats, because the eleitist in you know whats best for us even if we don’t.

          • Norm

            jim
            Most Americans did and do want healthcare reform. But since the Neocon obstructionists coupled with the hate media, and selfserving liberal Democrats screwed it up, its support has predictably plummeted.

          • JeffH

            Norm, why don’t you tell us how the Demo HC Bill proposal contains anything that resembles reform? Why is it so unpopular with the “majority” of the American people? You should be thanking the Repubs for blocking it!

          • Joe H.

            I think you meant to say that after they found out what it had contained in the bill it naturally plummited!!!!!!

        • jim

          Norm, Do you really want the same people who screwed up social security to run your healthcare? Since the AMERICAN PEOPLE saw what a bad peice of legislation the self serving liberal Demicrats were trying to pass of coures the opposed it. When it’s a bad thing it’s OK to oppose it. Telling the truth isn’t HATE media and you say noecon like it’s a bad thing. Neo just means new. Neocon, new conservitives. Just because the new Nazi party chose neo-nazi doesn’t make the word neo bad.

      • Cel

        Hey, hey,
        now with no one working…..what is …going to happen to S.S.

        You are right.

        We should never vote for another lawyer….get them all out…they are all crooks….look at Palin and Bayh….they wanted out because of the corruption….

        **

        *****

        • cr747

          UUHH UH UH UH UH,my my my

  • Barb

    Health Care in this country IS NOT BROKEN. We have the best health care professionals and facilities in the world. Also the best insurance plans in the world. What we need 1st and foremost is TORT REFORM. We need to put an end to all the senseless lawsuits against doctors and pharmaceutical companies and stop the ambulance chasing, bottom feeding lawyers that have risen the cost of our health care and insurance up! Stop them or at least slow them way down and we could and would have affordable health care for all! How hard is that? It’s at least a start.
    Just look at how many ads are on TV at night saying “did you take this drug and did it kill you well call my “law office” and we will get you a LARGE settlement.” I counted one evening in a 2 hour span, on one station- 10, 1 1/2 minute ads!!! There is our biggest problem people!

    • Norm

      Barb
      I agree with Tort reform, but it would not significantly lower costs. Other areas that would offer some help are:
      1. Stop drug companies from advertising.
      2. Eliminate competition between hospitals in the form of advertising, and duplicating services. By using specialized hospitals (cancer, cardio, obgyn, etc.) only required equipment and specialists would be needed by each hospital.
      3. Allowing patients to purchase drugs from the cheapest source, in or out of the US.
      4. Breaking up the insurance company cartel and forcing true competition.
      5. Getting everyone insured, so the “payers” don’t have to pay for them as well as themselves.
      We also don’t have the best system in the world, although it is by far the most expensive.

      • George E

        Norm,

        I think we need to be very careful telling healthcare provider companies how to run their businesses. For-profit companies should continually look for ways to increase profits by reducing costs and increasing revenue. This should be in their DNA, and usually is, unless the government has mis-regulated the industry.

        What the government can do that would be helpful is 1) ensure we have an open, free market place that encourages competition among providers, 2) a regulatory environment that encourages cost reduction (unlike what we have now that encourages risk reduction at any cost), and 3) cost sharing between the insurance carriers and citizens sufficiently that doesn’t encourage over use of the service. When the citizen pays too little out of pocket, there is a tendency for him to ask/demand more of the service than he would otherwise. When cost sharing is balanced properly, citizens look for ways to keep costs down.

      • Michael J.

        Norm,
        Where is your proof that we don’t have the best health care system in the world?

      • DaveH

        Sure, let’s cure the problem by forcing people to buy a product they now consider too expensive.
        Let’s take our healthcare out of the hands of healthcare providers voluntarily selected by the citizens and put it into the hands of disinterested government bureaucrats who have the power of force.
        Let’s add to our current healthcare costs another layer of costs – those of the bureaucrats salaries (average $70,000 a year). But don’t worry, the government will make those costs “Transparent” just like Obama has made things transparent.
        When I was young (40 years ago) medical costs were very reasonable. Then the Government got increasing involved and here we are.
        It would be downright comical, if not so damn serious, that the Democrats can think that if we throw more gasoline on the fire it won’t be so hot.

        Here is the only real solution to our Healthcare problems:
        http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279

        Big Government is the problem, not the solution.

        • Norm

          DaveH
          Forty years ago half the procedures available today (the most expensive ones generally)weren’t available. Insurance was cheap, almost always paid for by the employer, but by today’s standards crude.
          When I was 10(a damn long time ago) I had my tonsils and adnoids removed just before Christmas.
          My mom and dad both had company paid insurance plans and they both paid for the procedure in full. I had one great Christmas with a fantastic new Chemistry set and many great gifts. Those days are long gone.

          • Joe H.

            norm,
            5 years ago I went to my Dr. and she wanted me to go for an MRI on my back. two days later because of that MRI, they found out I had bulging disks above and below my fusion in my lumbar region. Know why I got that MRI in two days? Because of duplication of services that you speak of. i was put on meds and I won’t say I’m better, but I won’t cripple myself by lifting something I shouldn’t, which could have happened as soon as the disks had gone down with rest!!! but then you probably think what the hell one less conservative!!!

      • Allan

        If we didn’t have the best healthcare, wealthy Canadians and British, etc. wouldn’t come here when they have a serious medical problem.

    • TimJS

      Health care isn’t broken, what????????? Take a look at the following statistics and then tell me that health care is not broken.

      “An average of 195,000 people in the USA died due to potentially preventable, in-hospital medical errors in each of the years 2000, 2001 and 2002, according to a new study of 37 million patient records that was released today by HealthGrades, the healthcare quality company.”
      SOURCE: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/11856.php

      The report goes on to say:

      “Study Highlights Among the findings in the HealthGrades Patient Safety in American Hospitals study are as follows:

      – About 1.14 million patient-safety incidents occurred among the 37 million hospitalizations in the Medicare population over the years 2000-2002.

      – Of the total 323,993 deaths among Medicare patients in those years who developed one or more patient-safety incidents, 263,864, or 81 percent, of these deaths were directly attributable to the incident(s).

      – One in every four Medicare patients who were hospitalized from 2000 to 2002 and experienced a patient-safety incident died.

      – The 16 patient-safety incidents accounted for $8.54 billion in excess in-patient costs to the Medicare system over the three years studied. Extrapolated to the entire U.S., an extra $19 billion was spent and more than 575,000 preventable deaths occurred from 2000 to 2002.”

      The complete study, including the list of AHRQ patient-safety indicators, can be found at http://www.healthgrades.com.

      Now I am NOT an advocate of government health care. But to bury our heads in the sand and say that our health care system is the best in the world is just plain blind.

      People in this forum are calling for solutions, not complaints – I agree, so here is my solution.

      As a country, we need to put more emphasis on our diets and not as much emphasis on a local terrorist group in Afghanistan. We are concerned about these terrorist killing us on our soil, but we are not as concerned about the medical establishment killing us. What terrorist group do you know that killed 323,993 humans over a 3 year period?

      If we would get the fast food, processed food, chemical enhanced food (aka pesticides, etc.) out of our diets and water, we would not need all of the pharmaceutical products in our lives, we would not have to go to the medical terrorist as much and we would all be much more healthier and happier. As a society, we just follow the medical establishment just like lemmings. We allow big chemical companies to drench our food supplies and then we hunt down a few terrorist and spend billions doing it. Am I missing something here? Now I think that there is a time an a place for the medical establishment – but greatly reduced. This would drop the costs of health care drastically and make us a more healthy society to boot.

      So, focus more on getting the liars and cheats out of the government, focus more on your health and focus more on what large chemical companies are doing to damage our food chain and water supply. The more we rely on the medical establishment, the more that they will prescribe drugs which will end up in our water supply. The more that we by foods are processed on drenched with chemicals, the more these pollutants end up in our bodies and the more that we have to rely on the medical establishment. You see, we have a vicious circle going and we need to break it. Each and every one of us can take action here. First in our lives and then by talking about this to our friends, family and neighbors. I know, you are not going to be popular when you suggest to your family and friends that they greatly reduce sodas, energy drinks, fast food, etc. out of their diets.

      Don’t give the medical establishment, large fast food companies and large chemical companies so much power. You are letting every one of these segments control you.

    • TimJS

      Barb,

      I also agree with you on the lawyers raising the cost. We have such a corrupt legal system that all we do is keep raising costs. If you do not believe me, then go to a court room for a day and watch the proceedings. You will see that the judge and the lawyers are working with each other to extend billable hours. This in turn goes right to the bottom line and increases costs everywhere.

      As O’Bama said, “yes we need change”. We need to change the corrupt practices of our govt., we need to change to corrupt practices of the legal system. We need to stop advertising for lawyers, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, etc. Hmmm . . . for some reason, I do not think that we the change that O’Bama was referring to.

      • cr747

        TimJS, as an attorney I do not work by the hour.. Neither do I advertise.. All my cases are built around government or word of mouth.. So don’t class all attorneys as thieves.. I’ll fight tooth and toe nail for everyone to have good insurance.. We all deserve it, besides we are already paying for it.. I talk to a lot of government people in Washington.. Usually I unload on them and tell them what I think!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Cel

      Barb, I agree with you.

      We do need to get all the “fraud” out of medicare.

      We also need to do something about the lawyers making big bucks.

      You know those trial lawyers and Unions have the Dems in their pockets.

      • cr747

        Folks, I hate to say this but as an attorney,, I am human to.. Don’t I have a right to make a living?? Besides I pay 6 digit taxes each year.. I pay my taxes the same way you do.. Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Barb

          cr747,
          I am targeting the bottom feeders of your profession, the “ambulance chasers” not the regular hardworking attorneys that do otherwise good work out there. You have to admit that those shysters do a major disservice to your profession and I would think the American Bar Assc. would do more to curtail them and their lobbying in Washington. That is why Tort reform is so important, don’t you think?

          • cr747

            Barb,, you are so right..I see some of them every week..Yes I agree the ones that are in the Whitehouse are nothing but money grabbers.. I will go as far to say that there may be a few in Washington that are there for,”WE THE PEOPLE,”.. But they are few and far between:::
            I treat all my clients as the way I would want to be treated..Sometimes it’s hard,,but I do my best and treat each one with hard work and Honesty.. At times there is no pay whatsoever,,I take it with a grain of salt and continue on.. I will not over charge one to take care of the previous..

            I believe deeply in God, and I know without Him I would be nothing..God will answer prayers,, but you have to pray believing>>

            God Bless all of You,, And God Bless America::: that is my prayer to all of YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Scott

    Obama and the congress needs to get their priorities straight. We need a strong economy with everyone working. THAN, health care will take care of itself. Not many people (Except for the ones wanting hand-outs) complained until all of our jobs were sent out of the country. When people had good paying jobs, they had health care. So what do we do in the meantime? We elect people with those priorities that will help start new industrial type businesses that pay well like we once had. Also export more than we import.
    McDonald type wages wont get the job done, Nor the importing of cheap foreign goods.

    • Norm

      Scott
      You are correct.
      However, the jobs that are gone aren’t coming back. Obama or Houdini can’t make that happen. When we became an international economy, US workers had to compete with grossly under paid workers in China, and third world countries. They became a little richer and we became a lot poorer. Worse, we lost our ability to produce even the things that we consume. America is on a one way street to mediocracy, not unlike every other “power” in history.

      • George E

        We can accept this or not. We should do everything we can to encourage businesses to grow and prosper in this country. Unfortunately, we’ve given priority to improving quality of life in and out of the work place over job creation. If we rolled back much of the regulations we have on our companies and lowered the corporate income tax rates to more competitive levels, I believe we could create many more jobs. American doesn’t have the lowest paid workers in the world, but we do have some of the most creative and productive workers. We also have a fairly stable political environment, compared to many emerging countries, and a sound (or at least used to be sound) USD. We need to think positive, take the bull by the horns (so to speak), think strategic, be willing to work hard and get a good education, and get this country back on its feet. We can do it.

        • Norm

          George E
          The US has roughly 300 million people. China has nearly 4 times that number. China produces more than 4 times the Engineers than does the US.
          We are freely giving them all our technology and hiring them to advance it. They make much of what we consume and are getting more and more into the high tech areas. They have nukes, rocket and military science and are building an impressive military. They are keeping us afloat with loans. They are also a Communist country. They allow some private ownership, but only because it serves their ends.
          It is hard to see how we prevail, in the long run, in this scenerio.

          • JeffH

            Normy Baby, what one country might consider an “engineer”, another might consider them as “maintenance engineers”. The level of engineering education is very, very differant from one country to another. You might want to revise your comment.

          • Norm

            Jeffh

            After an exhaustive study, researchers at Duke University also pummeled the numbers. In a December 2005 analysis, “Framing the Engineering Outsourcing Debate,” they reported that the United States annually produces 137,437 engineers with at least a bachelor’s degree while India produces 112,000 and China 351,537.

            As an Engineer, I’ve worked with some of my Indian equivalents. In my opinion they are very bright and knowledgable of basic facts. They often lack “hands on” experience, but this can be easily acquired over time, espicially with American help.

          • JeffH

            Norm Baby, what about the Chinese engineers? How do they match up?
            You didn’t address them at all.

          • George E

            Norm,

            I recognize the challenge is formidable. However, we have to find ways of meeting this challenge if we want to maintain our standard of living. I believe the answer lies in the ingenuity of our people. If we just release the entrepreneurial spirit they’ll find the answers for us. Let’s think outside the box and come up with solutions that work.

      • DaveH

        The jobs have been chased out of our country by over-paid Union workers, and over-paid and over-sized US government. The Leviathan Government is sucking the resources out of our economy. It provides only the illusion of protection, but in reality the political class is only looking out for themselves and their gang members.
        The more “protection” that is offered, the more our economy is going to contract. We need to downsize our Government and put those negatively productive Government employees back to doing productive work in the private economy.

        Study this list of countries ranked by their Economic Freedom and learn why Big Government ruins economies. Also, note that countries like Hong Kong and Singapore get by on government spending of less than 15% of GDP, but the United States governments now spend more than 37% of GDP:
        http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking.aspx

        • Allan

          Come to think of it, our government is a welfare recipient whose needs dwarf so-called corporate welfare. My state, Oregon, grew its spending by 9% in 2009 and gave government workers pay raises in one of the highest unemployed states.

        • Joe H.

          DaveH,
          I guess it’s useless of me to mention that all those other countries that Norm mentions are NON-UNION by government edict!!!

    • JeffH

      Scott, do not be fooled by this administration. Obama has HIS priorities straight! He is just trying to figure out how to get everyone to swallow it. At least we can “thank the Republicans” for being the party of NO, despite their equally flawed mentality. Sooner or later someone in government has either “krap or get off the pot”.

    • TimJS

      Scott, I agree that we need to get our jobs back, but we opened pandora’s box when we became an international player. I have traveled the world over and have visited factories where the workers are working for $2-4 USD per day versus our union shops of $24-60 USD per hour. O’Bama said in his state of the union address that we would create green jobs and export solar panels. Now how are we going to do that when China produces them for 2/3rds less than we can build them . . . and by the way of very good quality.

      Oh, I forgot to mention all of the government regulations that business has to endure. Yes, I think that health and safety protection is important but our government enforcement has went over the top. Please, a $10,000 fine because someone forgot to put a safety poster up in a break room. Imprisonment if you as employer forgot to schedule a safety class and someone got hurt. Yes, safety is important but this is over the top and will NEVER make us competitive against China, India, etc.

      Tell me one product where we can outperform other countries. Yes, we have good software engineers, but so does India and now China and parts of South America a catching us and leading the pack. Yes we are more creative than most countries but India has great mathematicians, engineers, programmers, scientists, etc. Look at Dubai, while I think some of their engineering may have push the envelope, have you seen some of these unique designs being constructed in the U.S.?

      Having traveled the world as many times over as I have, I find it obnoxious to think that we will outperform some of these other countries. China, Japan, Korea are all production machines and by the way, the sleeping tiger – India has not even woken up yet. They have been very protectionist and have not been as good at exporting – but when they do wake up, look out.

      By the way over the last 30-40 years, approximately 50% of our economy has been driven by construction and building consumer goods i.e. cars, etc. If China and India do nothing more that what we have done for the last 3 decades, then they will have super strong economies.

      So what will we do to get back to growth? That is a great question because we cannot be competitive on exports, we do not have any money to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and we have more debt than we know what to do with and a dollar that is fiat currency. I think that we are right were the Roman Empire found themselves. A group of corrupt politicians and a society that had over-endulged. We know what happened to them.

      • Allan

        TimJS,

        You pose a good question about how to get back to growth given maturing capabilities in other parts of the world.

        Obama and his followers see the answer as socialism. Just redistribute the wealth, and 98% will have more of the pie.

        That will kill what made America great…individual incentive. From that came innovation, wealth, and individual generosity. Social justice pie cutters consider the competitive model outdated and unfair. If their “sustainability” model is allowed to grow, it will be only a matter of time, perhaps a generation, before the flame of individual incentive burns out, and with it the source of our standard of living. The pie cutters are dangerous fools.

        Our system still allows us to support those who understand that individual incentive is our most precious right. If it is unburdened we can continue to innovate and lead in the world.

    • Cel

      Scott….

      Obama wants ….”POWER” AND …”CONTROL”

      We are the ones who wants ….JOBS..

  • Raggs

    Remember what I’m saying…
    odumbo will use any means to pass this even if it leads to a executive order.

  • http://att&tuverse Roscoe

    You hit the nail on the head Barb. The attorneys are greedy and will find all sorts of ways to get at the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies. They know that’s their easier mark. Look at your yellow page covers are loaded with their ads as well as the numerous ads constantly on TV. Thank the Lord for a remote to change channels when they come on.

    • Cel

      RIGHT….

      ATTORNEYS ARE GREETY….

      WASHINGTON IS FULL OF THEM…

      Get them out…

      **

      • cr747

        Cel, Doesn’t look like an honest,, hard working,, non advertising attorney has a chance on here.. I have agreed with a lot of you on other post,, Yes there are some greedy, untrustworthy attorneys out there.. That does not mean that all of us are.. I do understand the one’s in Congress are sucking we the people dry.. I don’t approve of it either,, and I let them know they are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • realbigal

    WOW! It looks like there is an organized effort to take over predominance of opinion on this website. Except for comments from Betty and possibly a few others, I am reading subtle propaganda in support of favoring government involvement in the delivery of healthcare. Are a bunch of Obamacrats deliberately planting Time/Newseek type “analysis” (subtle pro-communist propaganda disguised as mainstream American thought) here to sabotage the usual predominance of Americanist opinion found here?

    • Raggs

      That would not surprise me at all.
      Like I said they will not stop at anything to push this communism on the people.

    • Barb

      I hope you are not implying that because I think we should go after the big lobby group of Lawyers that you think I’m on that illegal president’s side of this issue. I wouldn’t be on Obama’s side if it would save my life. If I hit a cord good, if I’m not one of the subtle annalists you are referring to, good , then sorry. But until something is done about these frivolous lawsuits, costs will continue to soar! I also agree with RAGGS, Obama will find a way if he hasn’t already along with Pelosi and company to screw us and push this “Obamanition” thru. Executive order is NOT out of the question, he love to abuse his power!

      • Norm

        Barb
        Sweetie, Obama is not an illegal president. You don’t have to like him, but he was legally elected by a large margin, certainly larger than either of W’s.

        • Raggs

          Humm Norm are you in reference to the illegals that voted in Chicago?
          Florida? California? Since when does “legal” include votes from the graveyard? Hispanics? non-citizens?…

        • Barb

          Don’t call me sweetie! And there is plenty of evidence out there being buried that proves he is illegal because he isn’t a citizen of the US. NOT to mention how many illegal votes rounded up by Acorn were counted and so on and so on and so on! I don’t like him and this is STILL a free country so I do not have to recognize him as my president! Looks like we may have found one of the wolves in lambs clothing here!

          • Raggs

            SEIU.. is in process of making illegals to become citizens granting them rigths to vote.. I read an article on WND about this around two weeks ago, it should still be on the site.
            And of course ACORN will be the ones counting the votes.. Hummmm seems a little fishy doesn’t it.

          • s c

            Welcome, Barb. It won’t take long for you to pick out the ultralibs and space cadets. They are very vocal, but they rarely make sense.
            They think Bush is still in the White House [?]. Try and get one of them to admit that Obummer is taking over for Bush and continuing our presence in a war that they ‘claim’ to oppose. They just can’t understand Obummer’s world-class hypocrisy (or theirs).
            Apparently, when you surrender your brain to a ’cause,’ people can believe anything (e. g., an ultralib believes that 1 + 1 = anything you want it to be). That way, they never have to THINK). They ‘feel’ their way through life.

          • Joe H.

            Barb,
            That’s the liberal way of thinking. Sweety, hon, girlie, babe, all those names thet you don’t want from someone that doesn’t know you!!! All the bills you don’t want either!!!

        • Allan

          Yes, a big margin for Obama, but the election means nothing now. The difference is Bush governed mostly as advertised and Obama has not. That’s why liberals are pissed at him and independents are now two to one against his policies. Democrats keep saying “voters gave us a mandate!” That’s did, but it was based on a number of promises that haven’t been kept, and slick obfuscation of intentions. The people have figured it out. Power to the people.

        • JC

          He was elected, yes. Was he eligible? We’ll never know, it’s a closely gaurded secret. Maybe next election the literate people will get up and vote them all out…

    • Cel

      NO, NO.

      I do not want the government …….controlling ….anything in my life……
      especially my health care…

      ***

  • Raggs
    • Barb

      Thanks Raggs,
      Everyone should look at this link. I’m originally from the Southwest and when my husband got out of the military many many years ago we were faced with the decision of staying there or moving to his home state. Because way back then even my state was already known as a welfare state and full of illegal Mexicans, that in a nutshell was the primary reason we opted for my husband’s state and we have never regretted our move. While there are many illegals in our state the numbers are still small compared to the Southwest and coastal states. Legalizing these people in mass is wrong and I’m sure unconstitutional but then Obama doesn’t refer to the Constitution or the law!

      • Raggs

        Yup.
        being a “lawer” he knows all of the tricks, and that is what we are seeing… His tricks… He will find away around the constitution.

        • Barb

          Raggs,
          How much you want to bet Norm is a lawyer?

          • JeffH

            Barb. is just too stupid to be a lawyer. He just tries to disrupt any logical thought process. Pay no attention to him.

          • DaveH

            I do think Norm is feeding at the public trough somehow. Maybe a current or former government employee? Nevertheless, we will have to leave that to conjecture, as it is doubtful Norm would tell us the truth.

          • Norm

            Barb
            I’m a recently retired Electrical Engineer with a Master’s degree. Except for my stint in the Air Force I never worked for the government. The only handout I got from the government, was my GI bill tuition benifits. But then, my increased earnings more than paid that back in taxes.
            DaveH if you think I’m not telling the truth, I’m not surprised. you seem to think everyone is a liar or is out to screw you over.
            That’s a problem only you can solve.

          • Norm

            Barb
            I showed you mine let’s see yours.

          • JeffH

            Norm, get your mind out of the gutter!

        • Michael J.

          Raggs, Obama taught Constitutional law at the University of Chicago for ten years which, in his mind affords him the prowess to circumvent it

          • JC

            Constitutional law has not been taught in Universities for a very long time, if ever. Interpretations of Constitutional law are what is taught there. And it’s amazing what they have interpreted the term “general welfare” to mean.

        • http://Verizon.net Bud Grounds

          Raggs: You are correct in your assumption about working around the constitution because they are using the appointees to write policy and put it into place without going through Congress. They are currently working on energy issues to put into place because they know “Cap and Trade” is in trouble in Congress and Congress is trying to find a way to sneak through a bad Health Care Bill. There are just too many areas for saving money they won’t consider primarily because the industries involved fund their re-election bid.

          It is great to see so many different opinions and that we have the right to express it. I have resided in other countries where stating anything that resembled a negative comment about their government could result in prison.

          Regarding Health Care; I believe most people would love to see health care for all. My 2 sons and grandson do not have it but wish they did. I worked in Health Care for 15 years but I do not agree with the Health care Bill as currently written as it will increase, not decrease the cost of it.
          The bill, as written does, regardless of what the administration and Congress is telling you include care for illegal immigrants and abortion and I am sure that you, Raggs see this as well. You will pay a penalty or a business will if you do not have or provide coverage. There are several other areas, if deciphered, will certainly change your mind about wanting this bill to pass.

          We are talking about covering approximately 39 million people; who knows the actual number as it keeps changing. Do you think they will be able to have sufficient infrastructure or the medical personnel to cover this many people by 2013? If so, where is the money coming from to build these facilities and where will the doctors come from considering the length of time it takes to become a doctor? The cost of establishing infrastructure isn’t discussed because they don’t want to tell you about this because they will not paying for it, we are. Will you being seeing a physician or a physicians assistant when you go to your appointment? Just a few things to think about.

        • cr747

          Raggs, I am not sure Obama is a lawyer.. There’s not any papers been shown to prove it.. Norm does not have enough sense to be a lawyer.. He couldn’t get through the entrance exam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Norm

      Raggs
      Seems I remember W and McCain supporting illegal immigrants. You probably forgot.

      • Raggs

        Does two wrongs make a right?
        I see no difference in corruption regardless of who it is.

        • jim

          Hi Raggs, Have you ever noticed if we point out what lib.s are doing wrong all they can do is go back in time to point out another who did it too, instead of giving any actual facts to defend it?

          • Raggs

            Noted!
            The blame W conspiracy at full throttle!

          • Barb

            Way to go Jim and Raggs!!! I think you uncovered one of the bad guys on this site! HA! Gottcha Norm, sweetie!

          • DaveH

            Norm is not a bad guy. He has just been blinded by all that grain dust swirling up from the trough.

          • Barb

            DaveH and JeffH,
            OK I agree with both of you! Maybe it was Norm’s condescending way he called me sweetie that set me off, but he sure seems to play the devils advocate a lot. Bottom line in my eyes health care is not a government issue, and we don’t need the government sticking in their stupid socialistic ideas on the working class people. Guidelines and rules are fine up to a point but 2100 pages describing dozens of Czars, committees, offices, departments,etc. etc., is not acceptable or affordable under any circumstance!I for one am tired of picking up the bill for all those out there at the trough who think the U.S. is the land of entitlements rather than hard workers who have pride in their work!

      • TimJS

        Both sides are corrupt and I am sad to saw that the Tea Party does not appear that they will be able to pull it off. It already appears that they are getting more and more infighting. All of the individual groups say that they do not want power but are all jockeying for it.

        • JeffH

          What is truth and what is the MSM misinformation on the TeaParty Movement. Remember, Rome wasn’t built in a day.

      • Cel

        google…7% less illegals crossing border because of programs the Bush administration started in 2007.

        You want hear that on the CNN news.

        • cr747

          Cel, you can say that again.. Had some in court in El Passo Tuesday.. They got a free ride back to the border!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • R. Madore

    We do need healthcare reform however, not the kind the Senate or the House presnetly has. Start over and both parties must be involved from the beginning to the end. We don’t need a take over just reform. Eliminate preexisting conditions, Tort reform, ale to Purchase healthcare across State lines, and strengthen the healtcare laws to protect policy holders. I also don’t want to continue paying for others bad habbits. Make individuals responsible when purchasing healthcare for their cost by weight, smoking, drinking, drug use etc.

  • Robin from Indiana

    Our government has grown so corrupt that our Founding Fathers wouldn’t even recognize it! The meeting between the Dems and the Republicans for health care discussion is a sham. Have you heard about the shortage of doctors that is coming? If government health care is passed, it will make it even worse.
    I really believe that Obama was elected for a reason. And in my opinion that reason is to wake up America to see that our government is like a snowball going down a hill. It is on a run away path and taking many with it!

    • Warrior

      Don’t worry about any shortage of doctors, the dem’s bill includes more entitlements for medical schools in the form of affirmative action. Yes, we don’t have to concern ourselves with the most qualified getting into med school if this passes. We’ll have all sorts of dems aquiring the title of MD. There will be no shortage of docs, just qualified ones.

    • Cel

      Robin, I believe the same thing….

      Only could someone with Obama connections get voted in as President ..

      God had to have looked at us and thought….”they want read my word, they want listen to my prophets…so I will do something to make them wake up, they will see that it could only come from me.”

      and the more I read…the more I believe that.

      It just goes on and on….crooks…cheats…liars…terrorist…

      Where does he find them?

      ****

  • DaveH
    • JeffH

      Thanks for the link Dave. Our wonderful government at work????
      According to a report issued by the Government Accountability Office Oct. 7, approximately 785 employees with disqualifying criminal records could still end up working for the Census Bureau this year

      • Warrior

        Brilliant! What better way to scope out your next home invasion.

        • JC

          Make sure you step out onto the stoop with them while wearing a sidearm. Do not let them in the house. Give one word answers and rool a lot. lol…they won’t hang around long…;)

    • chuck b

      daveh

      so whats the big deal, half the congress probably couldn’t pass.

      • DaveH

        Just don’t let them in your house. In fact, Clean the House in 2010!

        • Raggs

          Well I’m not at all surprized… I wonder how many ACORN employ’s? SEIU? the white house?

        • Joe H.

          DaveH,
          Right! Meet them at the door and pray for rain and snow!!! We have gotten it here in Ohio as late as mid to late June!!!!

        • JeffH

          I’ll have my nine at the ready when they knock on my door, although I probably won’t answer.

  • http://members.cox.net/journeyhome/index.htm JourneyHome

    Poll numbers are more kabuki theater – the golden rule – the guy with gold makes the rules – is what governs this Country – everything else and I mean everything is window dressing. Stop wasting time arguing among yourselves and focus on solutions – everyone – everyone agrees health care is crippling the overall economy bleeding the middle class and making business less competitive – here’s a solution to HELP those of us not in politics and who could give a hoot over which side scores political points – vote your pocket books!

    “Use Senate reconciliation and expand Medicare via the Senate’s buy-in provisions. The CBO has already signed off on this as a means of saving money.

    More importantly, if more Americans can do a buy-in with Medicare, it creates more cost control (because there’s a genuine “public option” competitor).

    It also helps to solve the problems of pre-existing conditions, because Medicare does not deny coverage on this basis.

    Allowing a Medicare buy-in to Americans under 65 would give people a genuine alternative to private insurance and thereby render the pre-existing question moot.

    It would also lower Medicare costs by expanding the risk pool of patients (the great bulk of medical expenses are accounted for by a small number of people, mostly the elderly, requiring very expensive treatment).

    And it would substantially enhance the global competitiveness of American corporations. After all, in what other country in the world is health care a marginal cost of production for business?” – Roosevelt Institute Marshall Auerback

    • American Citizen

      Then watch our Medicare premiums on we senior citizens on a limited income go up even further. We already spend $8,000 a year on our medical care which includes premiums.

      • George E

        I find that interesting. I’m not on Medicare yet (got a couple more years before I’m 65), but we pay about $4,800 per year per person for our health insurance premiums. Assuming your coverage and mine are the same, it appears that you’re not getting a great deal from Medicare. Heck, if they’d just give you the $400/mo that you’ve already paid in to the system, you could buy private insurance and not have to mess with the government, and the government could reduce their cost for Medicare……I guess.

  • Roger

    I would like to point out a few random facts that you should take into consideration when deciding if you want the new health care program.

    When Medicare was originally being considered, the CBO underestimated its actual cost by a factor of 10.

    The “risk pool” is already 70% percent of the population. Expanding it will not lower costs. The population that is currently outside of the risk pool is not significantly different than what is currently in it.

    A few months ago the federal government suggested new standards for mammograms. Remember the uproar. People from both sides of the political spectrum were up in arms. Well, those new standards were a product of a small committee similar to the committees that will be organized as part of the new health plan. The result will be massive changes in standards of care in order to save costs. That is what happened in the UK and Canada resulting in an increase rate of death due to cancer. I for one do not want that to happen here.

    Doctors all over the country have changed their specialties in order to cut malpractice insurance thus creating shortages in some specialties. A friend of mine who is an urologist pays $200,000/yr in insurance premiums.

    Many doctors practice “protective” medicine now in order to keep the insurance costs down. They ask for more tests than are necessary in order to have evidence that they are not guilty of malpractice. Tort reform will not only reduce the cost of malpractice insurance but also reduce the cost of otherwise unnecessary tests.

    I personally had cancer while I lived in South Africa. SA has a very good health care industry. That is where many procedures that are common place now were developed. Example: lung and heart transplants. I was told by my doctor there to return to the US for treatment because that was the best place in the world to be treated for my cancer. I have been cancer free for 2 years.

    • Raggs

      Yeah..But…

      What most people here are missing is….
      What goes along with a federal health program…

      Preventative actions!!!!!!!!
      If you smoke, drink, if your over weigth or ANYTHING the government deems as a risk you will be FORCED to conform to thier standards..

      Why people do not see this I don’t know.

      • Joe H.

        Raggs,
        i wait with bated breath to see what they would do about a vet that has diabetes due to exposure to herbicides, namely Agent Orange!!!! talk about your conflicting contributing factors. I’m 6’1″ tall 190 # and there is no history of diabetes in my family!!! My cholesterol is total 165 good is well within good range, blood pressure textbook 120/80 . highest it’s been is 135/86. I would love the libbies out there to tell me it’s my life style that causes it!!!!

  • Rod

    They need to TRASH the o-BUM-a, palosi,read “so called health care bill” and start over! The Republicans have come up with some very
    good ideas. However, we the people do not want Govt. run health care!
    The good ole U.S.A. has better health care than anywhere else in the
    world! We need to RID OURSELVES OF 0-BUM-a, palosi and reid and anyone
    else in Washington that is part of the “elite progressives” That includes Hillary C. a self confessed member of the “elite progressive’s”!!! VOTE! VOTE! VOTE! This is going to be a very good year!!!

  • Raggs

    What happens to all of the drug user’s the smoker’s the drinkers the over weigth the sky diver’s the off road junkies the hunter’s the fishermen ( off shore ).. the lazy the couch potatoe’s.

    I’m telling you people and some “sheeple” those that care to listen.
    This all start’s with a simple smack on the wrist and baloon’s from there. Go ahead and say—– THEY CAN”T DO THAT!— Yeah you want to bet? I’ll bet anyone anytime and any amount they will do that or at least try to.
    Yeah they say it’s good for you….Hummmm… So what is the catch?
    I know the catch and you had better wake up!

    • American Citizen

      Not to mention the fact of the “death panels”, if you’re old and they deem you not worth treatment, curl up and die.

      • J C

        As the Annointed One himself said. Old People may have to deal with end of life issues. What a complete and utter bastard this Obama usurper truly is.

        • denniso

          Like I said previously,you rightwing zealots are like rocks,hardheaded and dense! You twist and manipulate real info into pure garbage…the provision for ‘end of life care’ in the healthcare reform bill was to allow doctors to be paid for counseling the elderly on an issue that uniquely affects them. The idiotic ‘death panel’ crap from Palin and the other rightwing liars like your god Limbaugh, was and is as stupid and mindless as any lies they’ve ever spewed.

  • Mike In MI

    To Everybody Above,

    Most of you have good utopian ideas to one extent or another. BUT, in my experience your understandings are in error. Insurers, government, Big Pharma, and MD guilds are in cohoots to control your health to keep you afraid and get you under their control. The only way to get a medical bill paid is to have a DIAGNOSIS CODE affixed to it. That means you have to be sick in order to get the insurer to pay for your care – no preventive services allowed. Almost all authorized care is prescribed by dated standards – that means drugs, supplies, theory or “conservative” therapy that will not remove the cause of your condition. Ultimately, “conservative” care ends, predictably, to some surgical, radiation or injurious chemical intervention. Very frequently, that will mean a lifetime of drugs, follow-up visits or more procedures due to side-effects, errors, cross reactions, adverse reactions, drug caused nutrient depletions, anaphylaxis or other drug problems. By definition drugs are controlled substances and are toxic. Toxins in your body make you sick – like “Arsenic and Old Lace”.

    The simplest way to put it is this: If American medicine is so-o-o great why are people not getting healthier and costs not staying low and flat or going down? Health is unlikely to bankrupt people, states and government. Don’t blame the doctors and nurses. They were conned by the system to think just like you think.

    MD’s almost entirely control the healthcare business for their own good through bureaucratic federal positions. That’s why no Obumper-brain disease care system will bring costs down – only guarantee endless medical costs growth.

    That will impoverish the country and make any business rebound impossible. Only businessmen who are in the good graces of government honchos will get what they want, for a bribe. Otherwise, if there is no one making a profit there will be no taxable income for government revenues (unless they decide to tell us how much we can live on and tax all else). People who now live comfortably on the government dole will be unable to understand why the state doesn’t give them what they want. These people get mean when they are refused. At some point martial law will need to be enforced. What happens then is anybody’s guess.

    So, if you want to ensure no jobs, no growth, no future prosperity, enslavement to government (not anything like you are accustomed to) and living at the whim of Amerikan Politburro czars, then continue to support Obama’s dream of change for the U.S.A.

    The only hope of health is natural substances, nutrients, massage, detoxification, sane professional help and God’s promises. Nutritional science has made huge strides and is capable of making most people healthy – if one starts early in life. The major degenerative disases are totally preventable and curable. Infectious diseases can be prevented and cured without immune system crippling vaccines. The biggest problem we have in this respect is ignorance and bullheadedness. But, if you want to live through what IS going to happen…well, it’s your choice.

    Americans are massively obese and have immune system deficiencies and defects (often because of medical care). Such people will become foci of disease and madness which will require hard-nosed ethics and a steel will to protect yourself from (choose carefully whom you help). The time to start protecting yourself is 4 or 5 months before it hits the fan. Do you know when that might be?

  • guitarplayer

    Most Dr’s don’t keep us sick we keep ourselves sick by not listening to the Dr’s We need health care reform but not by the government. What is next. Government run homeowners insurance. Government run auto insurance. Maye even government run extended warrenty.

    • American Citizen

      You’re right, even as senior citizens, I can safely say that any doctor we have ever had to go to for medical care has only shown us real concern and good treatment. We have to know what to do to live a health life style. I think it’s time the schools have good health programs and cut out some of the mickey mouse stuff they force kids to do.

      • Raggs

        Do you refer to the indoctrination of children? If by chance you are let’s just see how the current administration is doing that. May I post about 5,000 link’s?
        On the other hand… Medicare is gone… Social security is gone.. The theft from ever administration from the past 50 years have stolen your retirement and used them on social programs. The one we face will be the straw on the camels back!

        • Joe H.

          Raggs,
          Did youm by chance see the report on social security on Beck tonite?? quite eye opening. the original bill was to start at age 67 for men and later for women. the average life expectancy at that time was 57. so all you had to do was beat death off for a few years and you might get to collect some. If you look at it properly, it was just another tax.

          • denniso

            Once again, you cite these absurd numbers w/ absolutely No context…Why did social security come into being in the first place? Because this ‘great’ country had millions of elderly people who had fought for their country and worked their entire lives, only to find themselves living out their last years in dire poverty because of large economic and market forces that were way beyond of their control. That’s why gov’t stepped in,not to try and enslave us,but to remedy a pathetic situation that the ‘market’ couldn’t address or created in the first place. Read some freaking history and turn off the morons like Beck,who are only getting rich at your expense.

  • Robert

    What a joke. Most of us Americans don’t need a survey to tell us what we already know. I guess this is how the stimulus money is being spent to create jobs. Assinine polls.

    • Cel

      Robert….I hear on T.V. today that we have over 2 million federal employees’

      Our tax money can not sustain this….soon we want have that many working…

      We are now “slaves” to China.

      My daddy would not believe that.

      BIG…GOVERNMENT…….BIG GOVERNMENT……

      Evan Bayh just said on T.V. that if he could create one job in the next month he would be doing more than CONGRESS has done last yr.

      Boy……..Democrats will kill him now….

      ****

      • JC

        Cel, I have a link around here somewhere…I’ll try and find it…that tells us that since Obama was elected, 30,000 government jobs have been added to the federal payroll, every month. And these at an average of $70,000 per year plus benefits.
        What happens when the half of the country that isn’t on welfare or doesn’t have a government job, just says to hell with it…it’s not worth the effort anymore?
        A meltdown that’s what.

  • Barb

    Norm,
    Sorry I was busy yesterday. Here’s mine! A bachelor’s degree in Education,
    specializing in Special Ed. working with preschool handicapped children, also retired, happily married to a great guy for 40 years. Raised 2 children have 7 grandchildren and two more (twins) on the way and have a degree from the school of hard knocks as well as most Moms. Do I qualify to spar in your court sir??? JeffH Thank you for the defense!

    • cr747

      Barb, I would prefer to have you on my team over Norm,, 10 to 1.. Norm is just a blow hard with very little to blow about..
      I commend you for working with preschool handicap children.. They are so precious.. I know I have a 28 month old Grandson that is handicap.. He is such a delight to be around..

      God bless you for working with Handicap children that would love to be able to get up, or out of their wheelchair and play with normal children..My Grandson is the joy of my life,,because he tries so hard,, and he is making so much progress.. I also have 2 more Grandchildren that I adore as well,, 1 boy 16, and a girl 11..

      • Barb

        God bless you! My “kids” were and still are an inspiration to me. So happy and hard working and never complaining! I miss them! And I fear for them in these uncertain times. Let’s hope America and sanity in government eventually prevails.

  • David F

    From the website to which you referred:

    “The health of society is a general welfare; devising a system that adds to the ability of society to guard against sickness and increase access to treatment is providing for the common defense; not having 45 million people potentially one sickness away from bankruptcy or death and preventing thousands more from dying because they lack insurance is insuring domestic tranquility.”

    ObamaCare does not meet the criteria of providing something for the “general welfare”: it penalizes those who have adequate coverage; it will lead to rationing of health care; and it will not cover all people currently uninsured. Moreover, it gives government unprecedented authority to invade personal privacy and make life or death decisions regarding health care.

    I agree with others’ posts who view the “general welfare” argument as rhetoric from a “progressive” (read “communist”) view of the role of government.

    • denniso

      First of all,your silly use of ‘Obamacare’ is absurd because he mostly let congress design the 2 competing bills. Secondly, if you don’t think there is a catastrophe brewing w/ our current healthcare industry and the soaring costs,then you’re only blinded by ideology. Finally,if you and the other rightwingers don’t think that access to affordable healthcare is absolutely necessary to ‘promote the general welfare’ and ‘insure domestic tranquility’,then you’re also dumb.

      • Claire

        denniso–I have to agree with you. Obama let Congress design the Health Care Reform and this was a huge mistake.

  • Lynn

    Why do we constantly hear that the Republicans didn’t offer reforms? They did!! Maybe the MSM didn’t air it….they had many. And Tort Reform should have been top on the list. But they weren’t about to upset the trial lawyers, 70% of who contribute to Dems! The amount spent on “defensive” medicine is staggering, driving up the cost to the Doctors and then to the insurance companies that have to cover malpractice. Insurance Companies make less than 2% of profit. The Reps wanted to have portability, increasing competition which lowers cost. These weren’t considered. Instead, the drug companies came in (what was said about “no more special interest groups”?)

    Be very, very afraid when you hear “I’m from the Government and I’m here to help”.

    Vote out all incumbents in 2010! (Where’s the REAL birth certificate?)

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