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Study: 1 In 5 Pregnancies Aborted

January 25, 2012 by  

Study: 1 In 5 Pregnancies Aborted

The global rate of abortions, which began declining in the 1990s, has stopped declining, according to a new study published in The Lancet.

The study was conducted using the World Health Organization’s definition of safe and unsafe abortion. Safe abortion estimates were based largely on official statistics and nationally representative surveys. Unsafe abortion estimates were based primarily on information from published studies, hospital records and surveys of women.

Globally, abortions fell from 35 per 1,000 women in 1995 to 29 per 1,000 by 2003 and have remained steady since.

Worldwide, the study found that 49 percent of abortions were unsafe in 2008, compared to 44 percent in 1995. About one out of every five pregnancies in the world ended in abortion in 2008. According to the study, abortion rates are lower in regions where more women live under liberal abortion laws. Some experts say that the decrease is related to more access to information and other options in those regions where abortion laws are more liberal.

“The substantial decline in the abortion rate observed earlier has stalled, and the proportion of all abortions that are unsafe has increased. Restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates,” the study says.

The abortion issue will take center stage for Americans during the Feb. 5 Super Bowl due to a comment by blogger Sophia Brugato who encouraged supporters of abortion rights to donate to the cause each time renowned Christian and Denver Broncos quarterback Tim Tebow scored in a game last month.

“How can I support a guy that’s openly anti-choice?” she wrote. “This is the same man that used the Super Bowl to a) build his reputation and brand as the saintliest saint of an athlete that ever lived, and b) raise money for an anti-choice organization that would deny the right to abortion to millions of women that need it. Yuck.”

Her actions prompted longshot Presidential candidate Randall Terry, who in January 2011 put his name on the Democratic ticket in several States, to attempt to air graphic anti-abortion ads when the Patriots and the Giants face off in the Super Bowl, according to CNN.

 “She was raising money to kill babies, and we’re raising money to save them. Fight fire with fire,” he said.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • s c

    Sophia Brugato will fare no better in this world than a confused and disgusting utopian who is in dire need of English lessons. For what seems like a long time, utopians get a free pass every time they say ‘choice’ or ‘pro choice.’
    As is the case with ALL utopians, ‘choice/pro choice’ means PRO DEATH. It might be swell for a woman, but it’s DEATH for a baby.
    Aside from the fact that utopians use a one-trick- pony approach to their PRO DEATH position (there is only an abortion – no other options exist), it’s almost amusing that they deny that adoption is an option.
    It sounds as though people around the world are trying to re-populate the earth. Why would they do such a thing NOW? I can understand it from a Muslim’s viewpoint (though I disagree with it). Unless someone has been living in a cave [a REAL cave - not a utopian's mental cave], MANY people must have forgotten that the world’s economy is having a major crisis.
    Normally, that persuades people to cut back on luxuries – including kids. Up to a point, people can do what they want.
    Here, in America, I find it hard to understand why ANYONE would think about having kids. It takes a long time and a lot of money and resources to raise one child. Contrary to the Clinton theorem [the village idiot plan], kids deserve good parents – NOT a committee. If those parents can’t keep their jobs or their health or have access to food, water and shelter 24/7, it puts childbearing in a different light – or SHOULD.
    From the lack of mental talent I’ve seen in the utopian tent, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that when America implodes, kids will be selectively neutered when they become 17. They may not call it
    social justice, but then those bastards could never bring themselves to call murdering babies PRO DEATH, either.

    • Karolyn

      Regarding your “takes a village” reference, in societies where the “village” takes an active part in the raising of children, the kids turn out much more well adjusted and productive. Where people are more cooperative, giving, understanding and work together, people in general thrive and grow.
      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/24/opinion/blow-it-takes-a-village.html?_r=1

      • Jonathan

        Regarding your “it takes a village to raise a child” thing, “pillage” rhymes with “village” for a reason. And it takes a viking to raze a village.

        • eddie47d

          Nursery Rhyme time. Okay Car rhymes with Bar so everyone who drives a Car must hang out in a Bar. Golly there must be a hidden reason behind what I said. LOL

        • Karolyn

          What the hell are you talking about?

          • Robert Smith

            Time sure flies when you are having fun, but fruit flies like a banana.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Oh shucks, here are more:

            If you jump off a Paris bridge, you are in Seine.

            When she saw her first strands of gray hair, she thought she’d dye.

            Santa’s helpers are subordinate clauses.

            Acupuncture: a jab well done.

            Marathon runners with bad shoes suffer the agony of de feet.

            The English language is my favorite toy.

            I call it oralgamy.

            Rob

      • Angel Wannabe

        Karolyn, what you guys refer to, “as it takes a village to raise a child” is a part of life we lived as children. It came naturally. When a child was playing near a home and got hurt, the neighbors would try and help and contact the parents. When someone was ill or had fallen upon hard times in the neighborhood, other neighbors would get together and help._-You guys act as if, “it takes a village” is something new!__It’s a play on words, and taken from the life, we’ve already live and still do, if people are still decent neighbors!

        • Nancy in Nebraska

          Angel, nowadays when I hear ” it takes a village to raise a child” I hear “let the government do it”. It used to be you could let your kids go out and play and any neighbor would intervene if they were doing something wrong or something that could hurt them. Anybody would protect them or correct them. Kids knew if they did anything wrong, they would get caught, they would be disciplined. Nowadays, parents don’t parent. The schools have taken over the job of deciding and teaching right from wrong, good from bad. Government has told us you can’t spank your children, it’s cruel and child abuse. You cant scold them or shame them, it’s not good for their self esteem. If there are behavior issues, just drug them. Parents have ceded their responsibilities to the schools where the children are being taught to be quiet little liberal robots. They’re all being indoctrinated and people don’t even see it. If we could go back to the “old” definition of “it takes a village”, I’d be all for it. But I sure don’t like this new version.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Nancy in Nebraska__I abosolutely agree with everything you said!
            It’s disgusting what we’ve allowed us to become, even if “we” personally didn’t allow it, too many did for it now has become the norm.

          • eddie47d

            The new village and the old village are both important since some parents can’t seem to fathom correcting bad behavior from their children. Hopefully the two models will come together in a little common sense. You are correct to say in the old days you knew right from wrong as a child and now kids have to have everything explained to them. Kids today do seem to be smarter in general knowledge than we were but more demanding in what they can and can’t do. Thus there is no common boundary nowadays in how to discipline/correct a neighborhood child. The “other” parents never seems to be thankful and protect their child that is doing wrong. There are more latch key kids today where the parent is missing all too often. So different than yesteryear.

          • Bob Marshall

            Very well said!

          • wanda kelly

            Amen! Will you run for President?

        • Karolyn

          I never said it was something new.

      • http://naver sook young

        It takes two good loving parents to raise a child. It takes lots of work, patience, and praying to God and Jesus to successfully raise a child. I should know. I have four of them. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          sook young says: ” and praying to God and Jesus to successfully raise a child. ”

          Actually I didn’t prey to your brutal god and my kid came out pretty good. Eagle Scount and Black Belt. He’s working in a good job and has excellent relationships with folks around him.

          Conclusion: Your brutal version of a christian god isn’t necessary for kids to grow up well.

          Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            Robbie, OMG, you have a child and didn’t order it aborted, Mr. Gestapo?

          • Robert Smith

            From Angel: “you have a child and didn’t order it aborted,”

            You are correct. I have NEVER ordered anyone to abort. I have NEVER orderred anyone to stay pregnant against her wishes. Can you say as much?

            Oops, you want all women to remain pregnant if they get pregnant. I suspect that even if their health is a question you wanna keep ‘em preggers.

            Oh well. It’s clear to me that you just don’t understand the concept of each woman making her own choices. I have made NO choices for any women.

            Are you clear on that? I have made NO choices for any women. The next time you imply otherwise I’ll call you a liar because now you have my position clearly stated. Women make their own choices.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie my boy, do you really think you have any affect on me…snickering on that…been called worse by a hell-of a lot better than YOU! :)

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but my husband has told me that you have posted just the opposite. My husband doesn’t lie to me, Robert. Your son wasan Eagle Scout and a black belt? Well, out two oldest sons were also Eagle Scouts and are current black belts in Tae Kwon Do, but they have prayed for their entire lives. I’ll bet my sons made these positions faster because of God and Jesus helping them. I’ll bet my husband helped them out more than you could. Here is something my husband told me to tell you about people like you.

            “A patriot without religion in my estimation is as great a paradox as an honest Man without the fear of God. It is possible that he whom no moral obligations bind, canhave any real Good Will towards men? Can he be a patriot who, by an openly vicious conduct, is undermining the very bonds of Society? The Scriptures tell us “righteousness exhalteth a Nation.”

            Abigail Adams
            November 05, 1775

            This would really describe you and your childish, immature, and very ignorant ways. You say you stand for freedom loving Americans? I say that you are more of a nazi than a good, patriotic American. Please stop lying about the unborn, Robert. I also remember it saying in the Bible,

            “Woe unto them that harm the innocent. For it would be better for them to have a millweightplaced about their neck and they be cast into the sea.”

            Jesus Christ, King James Bible

            Why do you hate babies so much, I don’t know. Any woman that believe the way you do is what my husband calls a femi-nazi. I am a woman and believe that life begins at conception. That is one reason there is no abortions in Korea, except if the mother would die, like a tubal pregnancy. Just think Robert, these are the ways of Confucianism and Buddhism. Are you going to say bad things against these beliefs as you always say bad things against Christians who believe the same way? Sorry, but those who fight against God and Jesus always lose. You have already lost, but you are just too blind to see it. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sook young posted: “my husband has told me that you have posted just the opposite. My husband doesn’t lie to me, Robert”

            That’s a lie and I’ve caught him at it several times. I’ve demanded that he prove that I’ve ever indicated that I influenced any woman about any abortion.

            Now YOU have been lied to. He will be unable to prove it to you too

            Again, I NEVER posted that I’ve in any way suggested that any individual woman have an abortion. I see that many threads from over the years are still available. He will have no luck in his quest to find such.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Another implied lie from sook young: “Why do you hate babies so much,…”

            (offensive line removed)

            The fact is that I care about BORN babies and advocate strongly that they get the health care and education they need through their entire lives. I don’t quit on them when they are born (presuming you still think they are babies before they are born).

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but my husband doesn’t lie. Also, since you want to sound childish about what I do at work shows who the smaller person is here. Yes, I do believe that we are a living being at the day of conception. That’s the ways of the Korean people and the ways of the good people of this great country. Sorry Robert, but how can you only care about the woman and ignore that child inside of her. If a woman becomes pregnant, she has a moral obligation to have and take care of that child. You say that abortion is a right? I beg to differ with you. Abortion is not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, so it is not a right. Just because something may be legal does not make it a right. I can drink, but its not a right. I can smoke, but its not a right. I can speak my mind and defend the unborn against people like you, now that is my right. My right given to me by God. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Abortion most certainly is a right. Roe v. Wade was based in the privacy between the woman and her doctor.

            You are opposed to privacy. That is unAmerican.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            You still haven’t shown me where it is mentioned in the Constitution. If it isn’t there, then it isn’t a right. Privacy? The right to privacy can be waved by the doctor, patient, or by a warrant signed by a judge. Please Robert, just give up. You cannot win against us and you still have not shown any proof it is a right. It is legal in some cases and not in others. Since some forms of abortions are illegal, then that would not make it a right. If it were a right, then they wouldn’t have laws or legislation dealing with abortion as the government couldn’t interfere with what the woman can or cannot do. Since they can, then it is not a right. The first ten Amendments to the Constitution are God given rights, but the government cannot take those away from us, only God can. Those are our rights and not abortion. Sorry, but ou seem to be running out of misleading statements. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook: “Please Robert, just give up. You cannot win against us and you still have not shown any proof it is a right.”

            Already won. Remember, abortion is mostly legal in most of America.

            And if you don’t understand the right to privacy that’s your problem, not mine. (offensive line removed)

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            You still lose Robert. You keep saying legal and legal does not make it a right. Since I’m older than 21 I can drink and maybe get drunk, but is that a right or a priviledge? You must be twenty one to drink. After drinking, there re laws that state you can’t be disorderly, can’t operate a motorized vehicle or boat, can’t give it to anyone under twenty one (contributing to the delinquency of a minor), and many others, so you still think it is a right? It isn’t. So as long as there is nothing covering abortion and abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution, it isn’t a right by God or the government (Starting with the Eleventh Amendment.), it is not a right. Why do you constantly lie about this topic? You do not possess the knowledge needed to debate anyone on this topic. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            Sorry Robert, but till you post facts and credible sources, you are lying and I’ll never believe you.

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “You do not possess the knowledge needed to debate anyone on this topic…”

            Sure I do. Abortion is mostly legal in most places in America. ‘

            Each woman CAN decide for herself.

            Why are you working so hard to limit freedom in America?

            Rob

    • Robert Smith

      ““This is the same man that used the Super Bowl to a) build his reputation and brand as the saintliest saint of an athlete that ever lived…”

      And that religious guy was beaten big time by American PATRIOTS!

      Restrictions on the freedoms of Americans by religious extremes is antiAmerican.

      Rob

      • Greg

        When did you ever win anything? You’re not even in the game and you never will be.

        • Robert Smith

          The NE Patriots STLLL beat the god squad.

          Rob

        • eddie47d

          I agree that Tebow has been hyped up by the media but he does stand strong in his Faith and is his own man. He will rise and fall like any quarterback and hopefully on his own merits.

          • Robert Smith

            Yup, I don’t believe that there christian god is doing much for him.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            I agree with you Eddie about Tebow. I hope he has a better season next year. Robert, why do you always talk bad about God and Jesus? Why do you constantly talk about something ot someone that you have no knowledge of? You make no sense. The subject is abortion and not your anti-religion and anti- Christian antics and tirades. The person in this video sounds just like you.

            http://www.patriotupdate.com/15829/fox-host-kicks-atheist-off-show-for-insulting-jesus-the nativity.

            He really sounds like you. By the way, how do you like knowing that Obama is breaking the law (Hyde Amendment) by wanting to fund planned parenthood? Gee, one morally corrupt individual supporting another one. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sook young asks: “Robert, why do you always talk bad about God and Jesus?”

            In this case it’s because Teabow was elevated to almost supernatural status for bending his knee to that there brutal christian god who apparently didn’t do much for him against the Patriots.

            BTW, it was predicted in a “Saturday Night Live” skit: http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tebow/1374394

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but he wasn’t elevated above anything. People do respect him for being brave and showing his faith in public. Thanks for the video, but I didn’t find it funny at all. So since you mentioned TeBow, would you say the same thing to a player that kneels and does the cross when scoring a touchdown. How about when a player kneels and gives a thanks to God after scoring a touchdown or hitting a home run or making the winning basket in a game? I think you just chose him because he is in the spotlight for the moment. Why don’t you go to this addrss and sign the petition to support the Life at Conception Act being sponsored by Rand Paul?

            nationalprolifealliance.com/rlaca_petition,aspx?pid=tpn1&npla=l1AAAP12l

            This would show that you care about children. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            Also Robert, you say about how you have posted many sources on this site? I guess that I’m catching up with you.

          • Robert Smith

            sook young asks: “Why don’t you go to this addrss and sign the petition to support the Life at Conception Act being sponsored by Rand Paul? ”

            Because Rand Paul is catering and panering to the extreme right just like his pappy. I don’t want to lend any credibility to those nut cases who are trying to keep women from freedom in reproductive issues.

            That’s why.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but our freedom is whether to have sex or not. If we do, then we can decide to use protection or not. If we get pregnant, we have a moral obligation to taking care of the child we are carrying. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sook young says: “we have a moral obligation to taking care of the child we are carrying. ”

            Morality is not the same as law. For you it is moral to obey the big ten commandments and worship that one brutal god and no others. If that were legislated in America it would fall because of the first ammendment. IOW, it is often illegal to legislate “morality.”

            If you don’t want an abortion don’t have one. It’s that simple. Your ability to decide in America end at yourself. You are NOT allowed to decide for another (except in some states where parent issues manifest themselves).

            The only moral way in abortion as I see it is to keep the government out of it. We all know how the government runs things. I think you would be sad when a new administration would come along and because government has power over abortion make them manditory. Keep government out of the abortion issue. It’s that simple.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you for proving me right Robert. You said about the government being involved in abortion. Since they are involved in abortion, it is not a right. If it were a right, then the government cannot do anything about it. If it were a right, there would be no need for the Hyde Amendment and it wouldn’t be part of Obama Care. These are both ways of how the government is involved. Thank you for agreeing with me that it is legal, but as a priviledge, not a right. I’m glad to see that you have finally seen the light. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Awwww sook, you just don’t get it: “Since they are involved in abortion, it is not a right.”

            Government is also involved in free speech fining stations for carrying Janet Jackson’s “wardrobe malfunction.”

            Government has also cleared nasty brutal christian protestors away from the doors of clinics.

            Simply because the government has set some limits on some things doesn’t mean the Constitution doesn’t apply.

            It appears your understanding of America is somehow slanted by some false information.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            The same thing could be said about you Robert, but I’ll be the mature one and leave it at that. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            And it’s been forgotten that abortion, a mostly legal medical procedure, has been vilified by religious nuts.

            The American PEOPLE have spoken in elections BEFORE Roe v. Wade. Abortion is LEGAL.

            Why don’t you respect the vote of the American PEOPLE?

            Rob

      • slapjack

        If only your mother had walked into the abortion office we would not be subject to your pompas arrogance, Robert. Tebow is a wonderful breath of fresh air. You are a sorry excuse good for nothing.

        • Angel Wannabe

          slapjack_”Hear,Hear”! :)

        • Robert Smith

          Thank you for another fine example of the swift boat ad hominem argument from the extreme right.

          Rob

        • http://naver sook young

          I agree with you Slapjack. I’ve known women that have had abortions and are now patients at my ward in the hospital. The Center for Behavioral Medicine is where I work. Women that have abortions are more likely to have problems with drugs, alcohol, or mental problems than a woman that went though natural childbirth. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “Women that have abortions are more likely to have problems with drugs, alcohol, or mental problems than a woman that went though natural childbirth.”

            Absolutely FALSE as I pointed out in another post WITH a citation.

            The fact is that very few mental problems arise out of an abortion UNLESS there is a pre-exhisting condition that would have flaired up anyhow or had been much WORSE had she carried to term.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            sook young, (Sarcasm Alert) pay no mind to robbie boy, he knows everything!

          • Robert Smith

            Angel claims: “he knows everything!”

            In fact I don’t. I just know enough to know that I don’t want that brutal christian god inflicted upon me or others who don’t want it.

            Sadly, it appears that the right wing doesn’t understand that they are free to swing their arms until they hit someone else.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie, Pound Sand rob, I’ll take, as you put it, my brutal God, anyday over your sorry azz!

          • http://naver sook young

            First of all Robert, you are lying about what I’ve said. I work around patients like this everyday at work, so you are lying. Can you also cite a source that would say my years of schooling and training are false? I know you cannot. You are a person my mother in law likes to say, “They just like to hear themselves talk.” This is the truth about you Robert. Next, how can you say those things about God? You don’t know anything about God to say such things, no can you speak for him. Are we playing God Robert? You know, in my profession a God complex is a serious mental illness. Maybe you should come to my hospital. I know a good and honest doctor that can help you with your problems. Next, agree with you Angel. I would rather have God than anything this world offers to me today. Robert is another lost soul, but I will pray for him. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey sook: “First of all Robert, you are lying about what I’ve said. I work around patients like this everyday at work, so you are lying.”

            Show me where I said you didn’t work with patients?

            Ohhhhh, you are claiming that those you see makethe ENTIRE case of those who have had problems with abortions!

            Fact, I’ve posted information from folks from Harvard, etc. I respect their PUBLISHED opinions that I do your anecdotal garbage with an agenda. Not a lie, but putting the obvious facts on this board.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Hi sook, you ask: “Next, how can you say those things about God?”

            That brutal christian god you worship? Easy. He flooded the entire planet (according to the story in your bible) and killed everyone except Noah and his kin. He took out cities, let his own son be tortured…

            Brutal IMO. Your mileage may vary.

            Oh, and then there is that canabal thing. Yuck.

            BTW, do you know where I can get a small electric chair to wear around my neck? That cross is an execution device. Yuk, it would actually make me sick to wear such a thing. Death as a fashion and religious statemet. Rally yucky.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “You know, in my profession a God complex is a serious mental illness.”

            Fortunatey I don’t consider myself to be a god. I suggest your brush up on your diagnostic skills, if you ever had any that weren’t clouded by your religion.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Ahhhhh! Such wordplay to insult others and steal their rights. None of your recent postings are rants with no facts or sources. Please don’t post lies. I think also that people would believe me more than you, due to myself being in the nursing profession. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sook claims: “Such wordplay to insult others and steal their rights.”

            Really? What “rights?” Be specific. I have taken no rights from you. What I’m working on is to maintain a woman’s right to privacy (as determined by the SCOTUS).

            I suspect your understanding of America has been tainted by some sort of radical POV.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            No, no, no, Robert. I’m just using your own words back at you. You were the one that first started posting about “stealing their rights” remember? Here is a source that proves you wrong, though I have many that do. All people are equal, all choices are not. You should remember that Robert.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCeSLQFlArA

            This about how the Supreme Court questioned the Roe vs. Wade case and how a child could have rights under the Fourteenth Amendment. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver sook young

            Here is one from Feminists For Life:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKaVuymKg3A&feature=related.

            Even feminist groups say you are wrong Robert, just like the rest of us do. Thank you.

            Sook Yong
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but even the founders of the Women’s Movement did not support abortion. Not even Susan B. Anthony. Here is another one:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFYCQSaAZHE&feature=related

            Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver sook young

            Here is another one Robert. Listen to her story.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtLvfDF93JQ&feature=related

            Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Medical staff stepped in and took care of the born. Sadly the right wing doesn’t want insurance coverage to take care of the born.

            How do you account the fact that such a “person” couldn’t afford health insurance?

            Conception to birth and then it ends. How sad the right wing is.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young, the first link didn’t work. The second link is just a diaper load of propaganda that “proves” nothing except that hollow argments can be made by the extreme right.

            I find it sad that anyone would advocate any woman (unless she wants to) carry a severly deformed fetus to term that may or may not draw a single breath. To go 9 months only to have it die and go through the danger of a birth looks so crewel to me.

            As far as “another one” goes it too is pure propaganda. It proves NOTHING except that when born there was a baby that was taken care of.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Oh sook, as far as propaganda goes this one ain’t so bad. MOF the kid makes some sense. You and your zealots around here may want to lister to her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fpGqZW8g94&feature=related

            It’s OK if I use one of your sources, isn’t it?

            Rob

    • Robert Smith

      From sc: “but it’s DEATH for a baby.”

      It ain’t a “baby” unless the person carrying it defines it as such to herself.

      What its growing is something that one day, if all goes well. Miscarriages outnumber abortions thus making that there brutal christian god the biggest abortionist of them all.

      If it were so “complete” it could gestate itself.

      Quit imposing YOUR BELIEF that it is a baby upon others.

      Rob

      • Greg

        WRONG!!! You couldn’t be that stupid. Where were you during Science Class. Did you even look at the filming of an abortion from inside the woman. Your hate for God in reality is your miserable choices you made in your miserable life. You use God to blame your foul anti-God choices on. Everything you say and do is anti-God, which is reflected in your comments each and every time.

        • Robert Smith

          Greg asks: “Where were you during Science Class.”

          Learning words like

          zygote

          gamete

          embryo

          meiosis

          ovum

          sperm

          blastocyst

          And all sorts of other things that relate to the PROCESS of what’s developing.

          Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Sook claims: “I’ve already explained that to you Robert, but it seems to me that you can’t understand no matter how well something is explained.”

            Nope, transsubstanciation is still defined as christians literally eating the flesh and drinking the blood. That’s canabalism in my mind.

            If you choose not to participate and do something else it’s up to YOU to sort out the varried christians, not me.

            If you declare that you don’t do that blood and body thing, even in ritual form (still ucky to pretend canabalism in my mind) I’ll undrstand that you as an individual don’t participate in that part of christanity. So, actual or ritual, canabalism is still a pretty ugly thing IMO.

            Rob

        • eddie47d

          I admire SOME anti-abortion folks yet they have their extremists too. Their views can be cruel and shocking too. A past member in Congress from Utah (Bennett) wanted to make miscarriages a crime and reportable to the police. Women would have to file a report each and every time she miscarried and be tested to see if she had an abortion. Although his bill went nowhere some Conservatives do equate the two as the same. Some Representatives such as in the Dakotas and Nebraska wanted to get a bill passed to make it legal to kill abortion doctors. These same states at one time wanted to charge and imprison women who have an abortion. Why did Conservatives hide Eric Randolph and treat him as a hero after he killed an abortion doctor and bombed the Olympics. Why does the Westboro Church carry around pictures of aborted fetuses but says it’s okay to kill gays? A Republican state senator ( Ralph Shortey) in Oklahoma yesterday introduced a bill that would ban the use of aborted fetuses in food. No such thing has ever happened anywhere but this wacko decided to make up this issue and present it to the public. That is fear mongering from the right and doesn’t put them in the credibility column.

          • Robert Smith

            From eddie: “A Republican state senator ( Ralph Shortey) in Oklahoma yesterday introduced a bill that would ban the use of aborted fetuses in food.”

            What do you expect from canabals? Remember that transmogrification thing.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Another childish remark by you Robert. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Huh? It’s christians who are into canabalism. I’m simply pointing out the FACT.

            Are you denying the FACT of eating the body and drinking the blood of your Christ?

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie, Still haven’t check in, huh?

          • http://naver sook young

            Actually Robert, we drink grape juice and eat waffers. No flesh and blood here, but it is to symbolize Christ’s body and blood. Why are you getting off of the subject? Is this true what my husband says about you? He says you always use a “classic liberal strategy” of always changing the subject. Why is that Robert? If you don’t have anything to say, they don’t say anything at all. Anyone can tell yu that common sense saying.

            “While the great body of freeholders are aquainted with the duties to which they owe to their God, to themselves, and to men, they will remain free. But if ignorance and depravity should prevail, they will inevitably lead to slavery and ruin.”

            Samueal Huntington
            Januray 09, 1788

            That’s right Robert. People that believe like you are enslaving us to bigger government and enslaving children before they are born. How can you call yourself and American, but still believe in enslaving children to your ways of thinking? You make no sense at all. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            There is still thatr transsubstanciation thing.

            It’s not up to me to sort out christanity.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            I’ve already explained that to you Robert, but it seems to me that you can’t understand no matter how well something is explained. By the way, I now have more sources than you do on this site. Can’t you keep up with a younger woman? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “I’ve already explained that to you Robert,…”

            Canabalism is canabalism. Weather ritual or actual you are playing with it.

            How ucky.

            Rob

        • Robert Smith

          Hmmmmm, my original post for this wound up in the wrong place in the thread. I’ll try again…

          Sook claims: “I’ve already explained that to you Robert, but it seems to me that you can’t understand no matter how well something is explained.”

          Nope, transsubstanciation is still defined as christians literally eating the flesh and drinking the blood. That’s canabalism in my mind.

          If you choose not to participate and do something else it’s up to YOU to sort out the varried christians, not me.

          If you declare that you don’t do that blood and body thing, even in ritual form (still ucky to pretend canabalism in my mind) I’ll undrstand that you as an individual don’t participate in that part of christanity. So, actual or ritual, canabalism is still a pretty ugly thing IMO.

      • libertytrain
        • libertytrain

          that link seems to have a sound problem. Try this one.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ

        • Robert Smith

          Ahhh yes, that old Gianna Jessen story. One in how many?

          The FACT is that when the doctor saw what was going on he took care of it OUTSIDE the woman. THAT is where society can kick in to save kids.

          Unfortunately with the lack of universal health care it is clear the right wing doesn’t care about it after it is born, unless there is a political point to be made.

          Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            What is wrong with relying on yourself and taking responsibility to get your own health insurance? Sorry, but these are hings we must do and not take advantage of the hard working taxpaying Americans. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sook young asks: “What is wrong with relying on yourself and taking responsibility to get your own health insurance? ”

            Not all Americans have money for insurance. Their jobs have been shipped over seas by the greedy 1%. It wasn’t thier fault they lost a job, and it isn’t their fault that the don’t have a job.

            And for that you just wanna let ‘em die. Such is “pro-life” advocay from the extreme right.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Robert, isn’t the blame the rich postings getting a little redundant? What about people that have jobs? Would you say the same about them? Sorry Robert, but as long as our founding principles are self reliance, personal responsibility, and small government, this is what we should be governed by and not the nanny state we have now. As our governor says, “Hunger is a great motivator.” and he is right. Sorry, but if Ihave to work for everything I need and want, then they have to also. Shipping jobs overseas is no excuse for free health care. What about the foreign companies that came here? They employ thousands of Americans everyday. Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, Honda, IN Tek (Cold steel industry), and many others. Gee Robert, I think you must just go home and shut your door and never venture outside. Please stop with the lies and political false reasoning. Here you say you are a veteran, but you are bitter against this country. I really feel sorry for you nd shall continue to pray for you on a daily basis. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Saurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young says: “As our governor says, “Hunger is a great motivator.” and he is right.”

            Let ‘em die. How christian of you. Never your brother’s keeper.

            But, it’s what I expect from the extreme right.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Sook youg asks in to context of a newborn needing care: “What is wrong with relying on yourself and taking responsibility to get your own health insurance?”

            And a newborn is going to do that how?

            Please understand the FACT that not everyone can afford health insurance no how much you or Newt think they can clean up schools or do other menial labor.

            BTW, for the kids who go to work in schools… How will the adults they replace find new jobs? What are the kids of those jobless adults to do for health insurance?

            How will they get health insurance sook young?

            I still don’t understand how “pro-life” just means certain kinds of life, like from conception to birth. Then you proclaim them to be on their own.

            Sigh… When will they ever get it? Born kids are REAL. There is no doubt about or discussion about what they are. They need medical care and it is denied by the extreme right.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Such immature responses from you Robert and not worh answering. I will not stoop to your low level. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            The right wing says folks who want insurance should take care of it themselves.

            So, how do you propose a newborn buy insurance?

            Rob

      • Angel Wannabe

        Robert your whacked!!!!!_-You think just because a woman is pregnant and doesn’t want the child, it changes what the child in the womb is???__I get it, ignore and it’ll go away!__What a frickin riduculous statement!!!!

        • Robert Smith

          Angel claims: ” it changes what the child in the womb is???__”

          It ain’t a “child” unless you want it to be. It is a PROCESS at which the end of it is a born child.

          A bolt or tire is NOT a car. It is a car when it reaches the end of the assembly line. Same thing with biology. Until it grows into something it aint that thing yet.

          At the risk of being misquoted again (and again, and again), an acorn is not an oak tree. You can’t really build a house out of acorns like you can from a tree.

          Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            Robert __YOUR BAITING PEOPLE BUD,__The village just called and they want they’re idiot back!

            It’s only a Baby if you want it to be,ROFLMAO!!!! thats like being a Black Person and you telling them, your only Black if you want to be!enuff said to you bud__Your baiting people and any further answers to you, are a waste of my time…:), your a howl!!!!

          • libertytrain

            Good points Angel, poor guy doesn’t know up from down, wrong from right…

          • Angel Wannabe

            Thanks Liberty! :)

          • libertytrain

            Angel, I wonder what he would do if he was present for his daughter’s (should he have one that he didn’t abort) abortion and the child or “acorn” was born alive. Would he then reach over and kill the child himself. I wonder…

          • Angel Wannabe

            Libertytrain, I’m hearin that!__This guys gotta be a plant or just plane nutz!

          • http://naver sook young

            You couldn’t be more wrong Robert. If the fetus has a heartbeat, it is considered a baby by the state of Indiana. Hate to bust your bubble, but you are wrong again. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            Good comments Angel and Liberttrain.

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “If the fetus has a heartbeat, it is considered a baby by the state of Indiana.”

            And Michigan once declared pie to be 3.14. Zealots have passed all kinds of dumb laws and taking rights away from BORN women in America is many of them.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Once again Robert, you show just how ignorant you are when it comes to us women. We have rights, but along with our choices and rights comes responsibilities. If a woman choses to have unprotected sex and becomes pregnant, she must care for the child. This is the biological roll of sexual intercourse. For us to become pregnant and have children. Don’t say anything about people who can’t have, as I’ve just stated the biological roll. If a woman doesn’t want to get pregnant, there are many choices of birth control. Anything from condoms, the BCP, IUD’s (Which I would not recommend as they can cause health problems.), and many other things. You always come acrossed as someone of little knowledge and mind, but this is just my opinion. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Another lie from sook youong: ” If a woman choses to have unprotected sex and becomes pregnant, she must care for the child. ”

            Actually she can have a legal abortion, put it up for adoption, or give it to the daddy.

            “must” isn’t part of the equasion in a free America.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but our founding principles do not say do anything you want. If a woman gets pregnant, she has the baby. Adoption or giving it to the daddy are good suggestions on your part. If a woman doesn’t want her baby, there are many loving couples that would want to adopt the child. Give it to the father? This may not be a good suggestion as it is many of the fathers that try to convince the mother to abort the child. I’ve had arguements with one of them at the hospital. It may have turned into a bad scene, but security came and escorted him out of the hospital. Thank goodness for the Russians. Our security on second shift are all former Russian Army and they do a good job. I’ll give you credit for the adoption suggesion, but that is as far as I can agree with you. If you don’t want a child or can’t afford one, then use protection or don’t have sex. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            Also, I see that Bob Livingston or his staff have removed some of your statements as offensive. Now looks like you, not my husband, is the one being chastised.

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young comments: “. I’ll give you credit for the adoption suggesion, but that is as far as I can agree with you.”

            How sad. I can compramise in adoption, I can agree that you NOT have as many abortions as you personally don’t want to have, or that you can have an abortion if you want one.

            But you remain rigid in your efforts to control other women and enslave them to pregnancies they don’t want.

            As far as sex goes it is far more often for pleasure than procreation. It is apparetly in a woman’s genes or some kind of instince to keep a male around for protection and to provide. IOW, it serves a purpose other than making kids.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Why do you continue to lie about me and what I’ve said? I said that if a woman doesn’t want to get pregnant or have more childre, then either use protection, don’t have sex, or wait till you are married. If you can’t understand this, then you are hopelessly lost. Did you look at all the sources I’ve posted before giving me these silly answers? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sookyoung asks: “Did you look at all the sources I’ve posted before giving me these silly answers? ”

            Sure do. When you post something serious that isn’t propaganda I will take it serously.

            Have your watched “The Cyder House Rules” yet? After all, if you want me to watch your videos you should watch what I suggest.

            Rob

      • Jon

        I support your right to speak your piece. And, knowing your sad belief, I will pray for you.

        • Robert Smith

          Actually I consider unwanted “prayer” for another to be spiritual rape.

          Please keep your religion to yourself and pry that you understand that this is America and different folks have different views.

          Rob

          • Karolyn

            Robert – Studies have been done showing that people who were prayed for by a group recovered from severe illness faster than they would normally have or survived when they should have died, whether they knew they were being prayed for or not. Miracles do happen, you know, whether you believe it or not. And I’m not saying this has anything to do with Christianity; it has to do with belief in a higher power.

          • Robert Smith

            Wow! Now you can collect that $1,000,000 reward from the James Randi by proving the paranormal.

            Quick here, go fill out the application: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html

            Until it’s proven I ain’t gonna go for it.

            Can I get a finder’s fee for helping you get the $1,000,000?

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            Oh Dear Karolyn, poor rob has a dark and murky pink aura along with times of muddied red so it doesn’t even pay to try….

          • libertytrain

            Karolyn or perhaps it’s moved into the dark muddied forest green. That would explain everything.

          • Karolyn

            Rob – You can’t disprove it either! Science is also getting more and more into the mind/body connection, which is a spiritual connection. We are all connected – all made of the same stuff as everything on earth. Everything is made up of energy, and energy is what we put out. Why should our energy not move mountains? It’s all a matter of faith.

          • libertytrain

            Karolyn, don’t even try with him. He’s purposefully mean-spirited. Of course in person, I imagine he would never be as rude. Here he can be the big bully he always wanted to be… poor guy has problems. I told you the aura colors he has, he proves them with each post.

          • http://naver sook young

            And you have no right to force your views on someone else either Robert. If someone wants to pray, you do not have the right to tell them not to. “…ro prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” You don’t remember that from the First Amendment of the Constitution? In fact, we’ll pray for you also. You can’ stop us either. I really feel sorry for people like you Robert. Lost, misguided, and not caring if they are going to hades or not. I’ll talk to my pastor about you and ask him to pray for you to. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sook young says: “I’ll talk to my pastor about you and ask him to pray for you to.”

            I”m not “stopping” you. I’m simply saying that I consider it to be sipritual rape. I don’t want your intrusion any more than a christian scientist wants bypass surgery. Let him die if he wants. It is just as evil in my mind as a witch casting a spell on anyone.

            MOF it was claimed claimed that the witches of Salem, MA, cast a spell on Tibo. The FACT is that they sent energy to the Patriots. Looks like it worked.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Karolyn claims as if it is an “argument”: “You can’t disprove it either!”

            You can’t prove there isn’t a planet like Kripton out there someplace ready to send a baby to Earth to not be a bird or plane in the sky.

            The inability to disprove something is NOT proof that it is real.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Gee, that was a complete waste of space Robert. Can you every talk like an adult? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            The inability to disprove something is still NOT proof that something else is real.

            You may want to brush up on the rules of logic. You appear to be a bit rusty.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Since we have proven God to be real and you haven’t proven otherwise, it seems that you are the one with no logic here. Please quit being so bitter against God. Anyway, he isn’t the subject here, abortion is, OK? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            ROFL… A real winner from sook young: “Since we have proven God to be real…”

            No you haven’t. Show me a photogrph or play a video of your brutal god. I haven’t found heaven or hell on my GPS.

            Can’t prove a negative. Not proving that your god isn’t real doesn’t mean he is.

            BTW, I haven’t even see the word “abortion” in any christian test of the bible. Do you have any chapter and verse with the word “abortion” in it?

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Abortion is not printed in the Bible, but it does say:

            “Woe unto them that harm the innocent. For it would be better that a millweight be placed around their neck and they be cast into the sea.”

            Sorry Robert, but you can’t get any more innocent than a child, born or unborn. Sorry, but your factless post has been proven wrong agin. Do not post anything unless you have facts or sources to back up what you have posted, OK? Be a man. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “Sorry Robert, but you can’t get any more innocent than a child, born or unborn.”

            Really? What about the one that says, “Abort me now so I don’t have to go through that enterance exam for that their brutal christan god’s enterance exam for his “heaven?”

            Rob

    • Robert Smith

      From sc: “As is the case with ALL utopians, ‘choice/pro choice’ means PRO DEATH”

      Not really the death of a “baby” unless one wants to BELIEVE such. It’s BELIEVE and you will see. For me it’s see and believe.

      Besides, if you want to play word games all those who are against universal health care are pro-death.

      They certainly aren’t “pro-life.”

      Rob

      • Greg

        WRONG AGAIN!!! Those that are against Universl Health Care are not pro-death, they are pro-work. We work hard and pay for our own insurance.

        You are certainly NOT “pro-life.”

        • Robert Smith

          Actually I am pro-life in the context of health care.

          I don’t think someone should die because they can’t get a job that has been sent overseas by the 1%.

          Rob

          • slapjack

            You sound like one of the Occupy freaks who don’t have a clue!!!! Bet your Mommy and Daddy are sure proud of you and the drain on the world you have become!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Awwwww slapjack, do you have anyting to contribute to the discussion or are you simply here to do a bunch of name calling?

            But IMO the extreme right seems to be into just that… Looking for ways to put others down.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Aren’t you doing the same thing Robert? Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young claims: “Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.”

            There is a difference between demading to go forth and control the behavior of others and saying don’t bother me.

            DON’T bother me or others who don’t want you or your beliefs in their lives. You can do your thing among yourselves.

            IOW, swinging your arms ENDS when you start to hit someone else who doesn’t want to be hit.

            This is America. You have the freedom to do what you want within agreed limits, and I have the right to be left alone NOT bothered by you.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie, ya wanna be left alone ….THEN LEAVE! :)

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but we were not founded on the “do anything you want to” founding. We were founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs and there is no way for you to prove me wrong. Though I know you will try. I agree with Angel, if you want us to leave yo alone then leave. You bring nothing here but hate and discontent. Just because these seem to have control of your life, doesn’t mean you should force hem onto us. Thank you.

            Sook Yung
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Form sook young: “but we were not founded on the “do anything you want to” founding. We were founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs and there is no way for you to prove me wrong. ”

            Actually, except for a few select groups like the Puritans many of the folks who settled America during the earliest years were military, those looking for freedom, or those escaping a noose or other punishment.

            Washington, Franklin, etc. were born here.

            BTW, I do agree that we are pretty much a nation of christians but we are NOT a christian nation. Remember, that WILL NOT ESTABLISH A RELIGION thng.

            It is a subtle but real difference.

            And, BTW, abortion is still legal in most of America. MOF, before Roe v. Wade several states including California and New York had already pretty much made abortion on deman legal. THE PEOPLE SPOKE.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but that is Congress and not the people. You do remember “…nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”, right Robert? You also said that the people spoke out about Roe vs. Wade? That is a lie. The majority did not want it, but the Supreme Court listened to a small group and not the majority of the people. By the way things are going against abortion now, it’ll be overturned during my lifetime. Thank you God. We have already writtenr to the http://www.sbalist.org and our Senators about giving them the protection of the Fourteenth Amendment as is noted in our Constitution. Thank you, but you just can’t seem to win.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Women’s rights do very well when there is an election, sook.

            Let’s take another look at where people VOTED about abortion issues. Often these elections are to OVERTURN legeslative efforts.

            Proposition 4, or the Abortion Waiting Period and Parental Notification Initiative, also known to its supporters as Sarah’s Law, was on the November 4, 2008 ballot in California as an initiated constitutional amendment, where it was defeated.

            The people VOTED and spoke in Mississippi: Amendment 26, the anti-abortion “personhood’ measure on the ballot in Mississippi failed to win enough votes for adoption on Tuesday.

            In February 2006, soon after the installation of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito, South Dakota passed a law criminalizing abortion, making no exception for pregnancies resulting from rape or incest. In November 2006 voters had a chance to keep or annul the law. They voted it out by a large margin

            And there are bunches more.

      • Rick

        Well… the baby didn’t have much “choice,” did it? Believe it or not, every living human being will one day stand before their Creator and account for their life… Even you. God says life begins at conception; are you going to stand in front of Him and argue the point?

        • Robert Smith

          Rick says: “God says life begins at conception; are you going to stand in front of Him and argue the point?”

          Nope. I don’t believe in your brutal god and in America you can’t make me.

          So, your god is irrevelant to me no matter what you say.

          Rob

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Rick, youj claim: “God says life begins at conception”

          OK, get him to say it where I can HEAR it. No bible babble… There are so many holy books, who is to say which one is valid? Ohhh, you proclaim yours, but I see others claiming the same thing.

          So, if you can get your brutal god to speak directly to me and I’ll listen. I will certainly discuss some issues with him. Following is an entirely different story.

          Rob

          • Karolyn

            Rob – “God” or a higher power, universal intelligence, the soul (which is in my belief what God is) talks to everybody. Most people just don’t listen.

          • Robert Smith

            Posted: “(which is in my belief what God is) talks to everybody”

            Really? When I go to work and everyone is in headsets I remind everyone that the voice they hear is mind and I am real. They are welcome to drop by for a cup of coffee.

            When is the last time anyone had a cup of coffee with your god?

            Again, if you can prove that he’s real there is a million bucks waiting for you.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but it is up to you to prove he isn’t real. Since you cannot do this, I’ll have no need to post a source. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young offers this illogical hole: “Since you cannot do this [prove a negative], I’ll have no need to post a source.”

            Really? Have the rules of logic changed just for the extreme right?

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Please Robert, we all know you possess no logic. Please leave us alone and go somewhere you may be more accepted, like the huffington post. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            What’s the matter wife of samurai? Can’t you deal with the issues I raise?

            For example, when put to a vote before Roe v. Wade abortion WON in states like NY and Calif.

            Can’t you understand it’s what the PEOPLE want?

            Rob

      • Angel Wannabe

        Robbie my boy__ at it again I see. Your quote “Besides, if you want to play word games all those who are against universal health care are pro-death”.

        The pot calling the kettle black, Your obviously Pro death yourself, aren’t you the one who refers to unborn babies as “acorns”?

        • Robert Smith

          No angel, the unborn aren’t “acorns” but I can understand how you can continue to lie about what I’ve said because you don’t have any cogent arguments.

          Here is the real idea. Maybe you can catch it this time:

          A fetus is no more a baby than an acorn is a tree.

          It is a PROCESS at the end of which something comes to be. The BEGINNING of the process is NOT the same as the end.

          Oh, and I’m not “pro-death.” I have absolutely zero interest in what most any woman decides relative to abortion. It is the allowing the decisions to be made by each woman that interests me in a free America.

          Thus, I am truly pro-choice, not pro-death. One is not the opposite of the other in an honest debate.

          Rob

          • Kippms96

            Where pray tell does the male of the species fit into this scenario? After all half of the fetus is part of his input. There is no spontaneous generation of 46 chromosomes in the woman that just happens to implant in the uterus. Does a male who is pro-choice get the choice of raising the fetus/child without the mother who would like to abort? Or is she the only one who gets the choice because of biology? Everyone always wants pro-choice well where is the man’s choice in the matter? One way or the other? Remember it TAKES ONE SPERM AND ONE EGG for a FETUS/CHILD to form.

          • Robert Smith

            Questioin asked: “Where pray tell does the male of the species fit into this scenario?”

            If he can incubate it it can be all his. No problems.

            But when it means enslaving another against her will to incubate his one sacred sperm, contribute all that it needs, and then deliver it… Well, that’s slavery.

            Rob

          • eddie47d

            There are Pro-Life people who demand that a women who is raped has to bring the fetus to full term and be forced to give up the baby for adoption. They have those on the right who demand alot too and interfere in individual rights. If you read history there are forces who deliberately rape women to GET THEM pregnant and then force them to give up the baby to raise as their own. This happened in Serbia a few years ago and is going on right now in the Congo. To them these children mean more recruits for their cause/manhood yet the women are abused and then thrown away when the time comes. Too many Conservative look at rape as no big deal and sometimes their compassion rings hollow. Then they want to traumatise the woman again by Forcing her to carry and then to take away. I don’t like abortion but it’s not my decision to make for an individual women. I’m not in her shoes and neither is any other person. We (husband,father,friend) can guide a woman to have the potential child but the final decision is hers.

          • libertytrain

            Need to tell that to those that survived the abortions performed on them when they were just “acorns” – sadly many more are killed because they survived by those performing the abortion.

      • http://naver sook young

        Obama care is unconstitutional and goes against self reliance and personal responsibility. Sorry Robert, but I earn my healthcare through my job and by working. Why do you insist on the government giving free things to people that do not want to work? That’s not the way this great country was founded. Looks like you believe in big government and not small government as our founders did. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          sook young asks: “Why do you insist on the government giving free things to people that do not want to work?”

          Guess you ain’t your brother’s keeper. That seems a bit un-christian to me, particularly when I see all those catholic hospitals out there doing good for people. I guess there are some christians who worship a different more brutal god than the catholics do.

          Further there is a more practical reason. Some of the folks where I work take the bus to work. I don’t want them to catch something from a person who could be cured (of something like TB) and give it to me, or you for that matter.

          Only with universal health care can we all have the best chance to live healthier lives. I’m surprised you haven’t figured that out.

          Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            ROBBIE, If ya think UHCare is so great, you do it!

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but it is up to the individual person to stay healthy and have insurance coverage, not the government. If you think it is expensive now, wait till Obama Care starts. Why should my hausband and I pay up to $2000 a year (Starting 2016) just to opt out. I guess you don’t care about the Commerce Clause in our great country’s Constitution. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook claims: “but it is up to the individual person to stay healthy and have insurance coverage, not the government.”

            Shucks sook I’m pretty sure that as a nurse you have seen folks who have been injured or who are sick through absolutely no fault of their own who couldn’t afford insurance.

            I guess you leave it to the luck of the draw to determine which ones you will watch die because they can’t pay.

            BTW, as a nurse I’ll bet you know that preventative care, immunization, education about sugar, BP medication, etc. are far more economical than letting stuff go. However, not everyone can afford it. Does it make sense to deny folks health care until it is an expensive emergency and the lose their feet to diabetis making future income difficult? Why send these people out of the job market?

            I don’t think you being selfish (is that a christian thing or are you an exception) is what America is about. Maybe you should investigate sources other than right wing information.

            BTW, if you want to save money it is far cheaper to have an early term abortion, or cheaper yet birth control (BTW we all know that abstinance thing doesn’t work no matter how much Brystol’s mother yammers about it)… Anyhow an early term abortion is far far less expensive than a birth.

            Of course seeing you working in a hospital I can imagine you are opposed to abortion so your institution can get more money.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Gee Robert, why do you continue this waragainst children? Since I work at a hospital, we have to take anyone that comes to us for care and treatment. No matter if they have insurance or not. We are not allowed to let them die. Such utter nonsense. Believe me, I’m not a nurse for the money. Unlike you, I want to help people. Did you read any of my sources? Please stop being a bore and don’t answer me unless you do so in a mature, grown up way, OK? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            Also Robert,if people can’t afford insurance (No excuse not to) or pay their bill, we have an office on the third floor they can go to. This office enters their bill and various charities put up money to help them to pay. They can also go to a debt reconcilliation office and set up monthly payments till they are paid off. No cost to the taxpayers. Thank you.

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young asks: “Did you read any of my sources?”

            Sure did. Propaganda is propaganda no matter what you want to call it.

            The fact is that abortion is mosly legal in America. Freedom for women is the law.

            Why do you oppose freedom?

            Rob

    • Cliffystones

      “……..they deny that adoption is an option.”

      Geez SC, how can it be an option when those poor Progressive Socialist Women would have to inconvenience themselves for nine months? :)

      As someone who was adopted and has adopted children, I am very well aware of the forced dichotomy. Abortion, or “I’m keeping my baby!”. Like a child is either a piece of unwanted flesh, or a puppy.

      • Robert Smith

        It ain’t a puppy for sure, but it ain’t a “child” either.

        Not until the process is finished.

        BTW, do you object to married same sex couples adopting and giving a good home to a kid?

        Rob

        • http://naver sook young

          I do and so does God. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            You may and it’s clear your brutal god does.

            BTW, why aren’t you picketing McDonald’s for those cheesburgers? You know that milk and meat thing is also from that there Laviticous.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            BTW, wearing blended fabrics is ALSO an abomination.

            Do you wear any? Do you picket stores that sell such?

            Seems kinda crazy to me to use ONE or TWO small verses to justify all that hate for gays, yet all those other abominations are ignored.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie, God does allow some things to stand for a while, so far hes allowed your big mouth to mock him, but he isn’t mocked for long….
            but I’m sure that doesn’t matter to a wise azz like you_ one little bit…

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but I can’t find cheeseburgers or beef mentioned in the Bible. Don’t forget that these verses are also mentioned in the Tora. It is made up of the first five books of the Bible, originally. So God setting a diet for the Jewish people, who tend to shy away from pork and not beef, is wrong to you? Picketing stores that sell certain fabrics or clothes made rom them? Gee, another childish rant. Please don’t answer my postings unless you wish to converse as an adult and not a God and Christian hating fanatic. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Let’s watch sook young be ignorant (as in not having information) again: “but I can’t find cheeseburgers or beef mentioned in the Bible.”

            You can go to: http://holysmoke.org/hs00/more-law.htm

            And you will find: “…and cheeseburgers for lunch, which is outlawed in Exodus 23:19, Exodus 34:26, and Deuteronomy 14:21 (this must mean that cheeseburgers are three times as sinful as gay sex since the former is mentioned thrice).”

            It also talks about mixed fabrics, etc.

            If you want to take the bible babble about gay sex literally (or interprited for oppression) then why don’t you obey all of it?

            Rob

  • M L

    HOW DISGUSTING. A WOMAN ASKS FOR PEOPLE TO DONATE TO A BABY KILLING ORGANIZATION EVERY TIME THAT TIM TEBO SCORED IN A FOOTBALL GAME? Sophia Brugato won’t mind it when she dies and the gates of Heaven are closed? Hope she likes really hot weather! Bless the souls of the murdered babies she helped butchers pull out of the womb.

    • Greg

      There’s a really serious film by an abortion doctor who stopped being an abortion doctor when he started filming his abortions from inside the womb. From the cambera view you can actually see this unborn human being inside the womb. It’s quite overwhelming, until the abortion process takes place and you see the torture the baby goes through.

      • Cliffystones

        Smitty needs to watch that DVD.

        • Robert Smith

          Posted: “here’s a really serious film by an abortion doctor who stopped being an abortion doctor when he started filming his abortions from inside the womb. ”

          You are talking about “Silent Scream” by Bernard Nathanson. He was a doctor on the threshold of being investigated and perhaps losing his lisence because of serious violations of ethics.

          The medical community has had a few things to say about that video. From:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silent_Scream

          “Medical communityMany members of the medical community were critical of the film, describing it as misleading and deceptive. Richard Berkowitz, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Mount Sinai Medical Center, described the film as “factually misleading and unfair”.[3] John Hobbins of the Yale School of Medicine called the film’s use of special effects deceptive, a form of “technical flimflam.” He pointed out that the film of the ultrasound is initially run at slow speed, but that it is sped up when surgical instruments are introduced to give the impression that “the fetus is thrashing about in alarm.” Hobbins questioned the titular “scream”, noting that “the fetus spends lots of time with its mouth open”, that the “scream” may have been a yawn, and also that “mouth” identified on the blurry ultrasound in the film may in fact have been the space between the fetal chin and chest.[3]

          Fetal development experts argued that, contrary to Nathanson’s assertion in the film, a fetus cannot perceive danger or make purposeful movements. David Bodian, a neurobiologist at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, stated that doctors had no evidence that a twelve-week-old fetus could feel pain, but noted the possibility of a reflex movement by a fetus in response to external stimuli such as surgical instruments. The size of the ultrasound image and of the fetus model used was also misleading, appearing to show a fetus the size of a full-term baby, while in actuality a twelve-week-old fetus is under two inches long.[3]”

          IOW, Dr. Nathanson’s propaganda piece is a sham.

          Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            You should watch the movie 180. It’s about a woman and her choice for abortion or not. Watch it as it is very mind awakening. I bought it on the patriot update site. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            “You should watch the movie 180.”

            You should watch “The Cider HOuse Rules.” Michael Cain & Toby Maquire are at their best.

            It’s available at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Cider-House-Rules-Blu-ray/dp/B005DCJ1J6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1327583277&sr=8-3

            Rob

      • s c

        Greg, ALL utopians are in constant denial. It’s part of being programmed (thinking is no longer an option). The torture for a baby starts when a murderous, no-talent abortionist invades a mother’s womb and starts pulling apart a baby or sucks out the baby’s brain with a vacuum device.
        Utopians call that act LOVE. Can there be any doubt why utopians are so mentally unbalanced? On the bright side, one of Obummer’s czars wants America to be “blessed” with retrograde abortions. That way, if you can’t kill a baby the first time, you’ll get a second chance later. Almost sounds like poetic justice, eh? Are compassionate utopians lining up to VOLUNTEER for those retrograde abortions? I wonder . . .

        • Robert Smith

          Shucks s c, it looks like you’ve made another false claim: “Utopians call that act LOVE.”

          Really? That demands a citation, not your blithering propaganda.

          Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            Waz the matter Robbie, don’t ya like the taste of your medicine?

          • Robert Smith

            Count the number of citations in this thread. I’ve done more than most.

            Try dealing with facts before you try to jab another.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            Yeah Robbie we’re counting the number of citations in this thread and most all of your posts, show just how much you despise the meaning of life, before, during and after … now thats something to be arrogantly proud of!!!!.

            God even loves a fool robbie!

          • http://naver sook young

            If your sources weren’t to obvious in which way they leans and were based on facts, I would agree with you. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            Oh, this is about the utopians. The big utopian, Obama, may be responsible for many deaths. PLease watch this video.

            http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/video-is-obama-responsible-for-1000-kenyan-deaths/

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “If your sources weren’t to obvious in which way they leans and were based on facts,…”

            FACTS from respected accidemic institutions and hospitals.

            Natahnson was an unethical sham.

            I think I’ll go with honest folks.

            Rob

    • Robert Smith

      Hey, let’s see where: “Bless the souls of the murdered babies she helped butchers pull out of the womb.”

      Yup, another one speaking “for.”

      Let me take a shot at speaking for the unborn…

      “Get me outa here NOW. I don’t want to go through that admission test for “heaven” and take a chance on going to “hell.” I want my ticket punched to get into “heaven” before I flunk out. Abort me NOW!”

      Rob

      • Angel Wannabe

        Robert Smith___ Bob L, may censor me on this, but your a complete Ass—-, there is just no other word for a paid ignorant shill like you, you make your bosses proud!!!!

        • Robert Smith

          I hope he leaves it as yet another example of name calling without any meaningful discussion from the extream right.

          Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            Oh yessss Mr Perfect! :P

          • http://naver sook young

            Isn’t calling someone extreme, radical, reich wing, liar, and many others name calling Robert? Gee, like I said to you before, those that live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            Well said Angel. A correct diagnosis of Robert’s problems.

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “Isn’t calling someone extreme, radical, reich wing, liar, and many others name calling Robert?”

            Not if it’s true.

            jCan you deny the desire to enslave women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term? Slavery is a very bad thing that I consider to be extreme, and in America illegal now.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            Yeah robbie you claim to know so damn much you say “Slavery is illegal now in the US” really ?__Tell that to the FED!!!__Mr. Einestein!

          • http://naver sook young

            Slavery is illegal in this country, that is true Robert. But then why do you want to enslave women to your beliefs and the innocent children also. It was even proven that the Supreme Court decision was just a sham. They couldn’t find anything in the Constitution to support it, but just made something up to appease this small vocal group. This describes you very well also Robert.

            “There are three points of doctrine which forms the foundation of all morality, the existance of God, the immorality of the human soul, and a future state of rewards and punishments. Suppose it be possible for a man to disbelieve either of these three articles of faith, that man will have no conscience.”

            John Quincy Adams

            This is true and you have no conscience. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Here goes sook young again: “But then why do you want to enslave women to your beliefs…”

            How is my belief that women should decide the abortion issue for themselves eslaving them? Your point of view making them carry to term is 9 months of enslavement. But a choice? How is that slavery?

            And the tired old it’s a baby rhetoric: “…and the innocent children also.”

            ROFL… You haven’t defined a “human being” yet. What is it you are trying to protect that a woman’s rights should be crushed by your beliefs? Please, enlighten us. Meanwhile gestation is STILL a process. You can’t deny that.

            More blather from sook: “It was even proven that the Supreme Court decision was just a sham.”

            Really? With the best right wing lawyers trying to overturn it for almost half a centuery they have accomplished little. Either the law is very strong or the right wing lawyers just ain’t very good lawyers.

            “They couldn’t find anything in the Constitution to support it, but just made something up to appease this small vocal group.”

            ROFL… The ruling still stands.

            BTW, it wasn’t a “small vocal group.” Abortion had been VOTED on and the people spoke in several states before Roe v. Wade. THE PEOPLE SPOKE. IOW, you are in the minority. IOW, most Americans respect women and their freedom to choose.

            Further, abortion wasn’t the wedge issue it is today until Tricky Dicky Nixon decided to capture the normally democratic catholic vote for the right wing of the republican party. That’s part of what drove much of the south to the extreme right.

            How does it feel being a political pawn for the extreme right? Nixon no less!

            BTW, if you want to get into racism it was Nixon who was talking to Coleson (who went to jail for his part in Watergate). Nixon wanted mixed black and white babies aborted.

            From a White House Tape (remember those?): “Nixon said, “There are times when abortions are necessary, I know that, you know that’s when you have a black and a white.”

            You can find that at: “http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/23/eveningnews/main5107797.shtml

            Amazing. Nixon would have had Obama aborted. How’s that for racism from the extreme right?

            Rob

  • Rick

    I want to know what the heck an “unsafe” abortion is. Seems to me 100% of abortions are “unsafe” for the person being aborted.

    • former walmart person

      Don’t you get it? ITs not a person until the “it” is in your hands and screaming and crying. Until then, its a disgusting blob of tissue that makes you look fat and unsexy.

      • former walmart person

        At least thats how the elites and femi-NAZIS see it. I am pro life all the way baby.

        • Robert Smith

          Unlike the right wing that ends their pro-life advocacy at birth by denying universal health care.

          Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Obama care does provide for abortion on demand, but this is against the Hyde Amendment. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “Obama care does provide for abortion on demand, but this is against the Hyde Amendment.”

            Actually that’s a lie. You can’t show me a specific quote from the law where such is made clear.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie_ if you want the info, go find it yourself! :)

          • Robert Smith

            soook young makes a claim I expect her to support it.

            Or, are the standards different for the right wing because folks are supposed to “believe?”

            BTW, I know there is no direct funding for anything but medicaly necessary abortion where the life or health of the mother is concerned in Obama care.

            Do you support a woman’s health or her life? Certainly you want to protect her life as in “pro-life” but with our support for not providing universal health care you can see where doubt enters.

            I find it sad you want to force your political / religious views on other Americans in situations where they can be harmed or even die.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie, only funded for medically necessary abortions, how stupid do you think we really are bubby?

          • Robert Smith

            Queston asked: “how stupid do you think we really are…”

            Really want an answer?

            I find it very sad that otherwise intelligent people can be led down a primrose path of right wing politics with the threat of fire and brimstone without actually having seen it.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Oh come on now Robert. You are the one that was always talking about the Hyde Amendment before, now you claim ignorance of it? Gee, another waste of space on this site by you Robert. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Show where I was “ignorant” of the Hyde ammendment… Be specific.

            The fact is that it hasn’t been violated. NOBODY has proven that yet. So claims against Obama Care are false. It’s that simple.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            You are wrong again Robert. The Hyde Amendment says that the government cannot fund abortions directly in this country, in another country (Like Obama is doing with China), or fund institutions that perform abortions (Like Planned Parenthood). Since Obama wants to fund Planned Parenthood, he is in violation of the Hyde Amendment. It has already been proven on this site and by our representatives that it is in there, so quit being childish and google it. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “quit being childish and google it.”

            YOU google it. I’ve presented facts. You attempt to refute them by telling ME to do your research????????

            Typical of the extreme right.

            Rob

      • Robert Smith

        Posted: “Until then, its a disgusting blob of tissue that makes you look fat and unsexy.”

        Or a wonderful bundle of joy to be presented to the world when it is born.

        It is for the woman to decide, not you.

        Rob

    • Robert Smith

      Rick asks: “I want to know what the heck an “unsafe” abortion is. ”

      Any abortion where the woman is put into danger because the standards aren’t met for being clean, qualified, and properly equiped facility.

      But, I’ll bet you know that. I can assure you that it’s one place where government regulation in abortion is proper. We want to assure the best possible care for the woman.

      As for that other diaper load, it’s not a “baby” unless the woman wants it to be.

      Rob

      • JimH

        Once an abortion is 100% safe we will talk.
        Right now it’s 100% fatal to the (yes it is) baby.
        There is no safe abortion.

        • Robert Smith

          If one BELIEVES it is a “baby.”

          Your belief isn’t shared by all in a free America.

          Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, Just because you and others like you are in denial doesn’t mke them not a baby.
            Your whole reasoning hinges on the premise that they’re not babies. So far you haven’t proven they’re not. There for you and others that are in denial are working on flawed info.

          • http://naver sook young

            OK Robert, if this country is as free as you say, then show me where abortion is mentioned in our Constitution. I know it isn’t there. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “if this country is as free as you say, then show me where abortion is mentioned in our Constitution.”

            As the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Roe v Wade it is the right to privacy between the woman and her doctor.

            The extreme right has been trying to get around that one for almost half a centuery and FAILED.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Jim H claims: “So far you haven’t proven they’re not.”

            Can you prove you aren’t a hired troll here simply to disrupt otherwise meaningful discussion?

            IOW, a negative can’t be “proven.”

            Simply because something can’t be proven doesn’t mean that your claim is automatically correct.

            Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, It’s human DNA, and it is growing. Only living things grow, so it is a living human being.
            I proved it is human you haven’t proven it’s not.
            You can’t prove a negative, but it’s OK I proved the positive.

          • Robert Smith

            Ohhhhh, the word games to deny women choices and freedoms. Let’s watch this one: “It’s human DNA, and it is growing. Only living things grow, so it is a living human being.”

            There is human DNA in an appendex but out it goes if it is causing problems and isn’t wanted.

            DNA BTW isn’t any more a “human being” than an acorn is a tree. And! At least the acorn can grow by itself.

            Another example is that I can draw plans for a house. If I burn those plans ther is pretty much no problem. If I burn a house it’s a big problem.

            Same thing with your diaper laod of DNA. BTW, do you advocate that a teenage boy be sentenced to half a life term in jail for releasing his seed after looking at a Playboy? After all, it’s the DNA for half of a human being.

            What about the egg passing each month for most months of a woman’s reproductive life? Should she go to jail for “wasting” that DNA and allowing it to die?

            When a real argument comes up would someone let me know? I’m starting to doze at this mindless propaganda from the anti-abortion wings.

            Rob

          • JimH

            Your analogy of a fetus just being house plans are flawed.
            If I burn down a house it’s a problem. If I burn a house down that is under construction it is still arson.
            It is a LIVE human. Your rebutal doesn’t refute anything.

          • libertytrain

            The only one playing word games is you. Or are you one of those that says do what I say not as I do….seems likely…

          • Robert Smith

            Another absolutely falsehood: “Your analogy of a fetus just being house plans are flawed.”

            I NEVER said a “fetus.” I was talking about DNA upon which most of our biology is based. (Arguments are being made that invetro hormones have an impact on how a person turns out, so DNA may not be the whole story.)

            It is easy to equate the DNA to plans because the DNA is what determins how the process of gestation will go and what comes out at the end of the process.

            Again, answer MY question: Should a teenager be put in jail for spilling his DNA?

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            rob your comment makes no sense. Typical.

          • http://naver sook young

            You say we have failed Robert? By the way states are losening the grip of abortion on their states, defunding Planned Parenthood, and the many petitions that are sent to Congress and the Senate, it may not be around for very much longer. Read my earlier post about Roe vs. Wade. I guess you are a real Doctor Mengele Robert. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Awwww sook young, you are so wrong, thankfully.

            Check out: “But California’s high abortion rate probably wouldn’t change much were Roe overturned. California is one of seven states that have passed laws that, according to Guttmacher, “prohibit any interference with a woman exercising her right to obtain an abortion before viability or when necessary to protect the life and health of the woman.”

            In other words, these seven states — which together account for one quarter of abortions nationally — have passed laws that codify Roe.”

            The worst that will occur is that there will be some confusion.

            The states that are most restrictive will have abortion on the ballots within a short time and like BEFORE Roe v. Wade the people will VOTE for the freedom and right of a woman to choose for herself.

            BTW, that’s from: http://spectator.org/archives/2012/01/25/does-roe-still-matter/1

            Here is more: “The upshot is that Roe means relatively little in terms of the number of abortions because the vast majority of abortions take place in states that would almost certainly keep the practice legal if Roe fell, and relatively few abortions take place in states that would ban the procedure.”

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            More from sook: “I guess you are a real Doctor Mengele Robert.”

            Thank you for yet another clear ad hominem swift boat attack from the extreme right.

            What’s next? Death threats or empty fire and brimstone claims?

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            From JimH who claims: “Your whole reasoning hinges on the premise that they’re not babies.”

            Actually it doesn’t, but I’ll bet you know that.

            For example:

            If you gave a party and invited a bunch of folks over and one decided to stay in your house without your permission…

            Not only are they staying but they expect you to give them food, medical care, and anything else it might need for nine months. Nine months you get to take care of that unwanted freeloader.

            I’ll bet you would call the cops and that “human being” would be taken out of your home one way or another.

            Yet when a “person” (such as you like to call it) is inside a woman, a far more personal linvasion IMO, you insist (another right wing double standard) that she take care of it.

            Why is your home more sacred than a woman’s very own body?

            Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, I wouldn’t have the person that wouldn’t leave KILLED. Keep trying.

          • http://naver sook young

            I will not answer any more of your posts until you start posting facts and not your distorted beliefs. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young claims: “I will not answer any more of your posts until you start posting facts…”

            Really?

            You haven’t actually refuted ANYTHING I’ve posted.

            For example:

            Can you refute the FACT that many states legislated at abortion was OK before Roe v. Wade?

            FACT: Abortion is mostly legal in most of America so it isn’t “murder.”

            Rob

      • eddie47d

        There will always be babies and children;love them,nourish them and bring them up to their full potential. There will also be abortions so what Robert is saying is that a doctor should be certified and the abortion should be performed in a clean and safe environment for the health of the woman.

        • JimH

          Eddie, I know what Rob is saying. I’m saying it isn’t SAFE for the baby. THREE people are involved in an abortion(if you don’t include the father), the doctor(and I use the term loosely), the mother(again used loosly) and the victim. Someone always dies in that SAFE abortion.

          • libertytrain

            Except, sometimes they don’t die. When they are born alive, sometimes someone saves them, more often they are killed after their abortion birth.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgd6tvLub9E&feature=related

          • Robert Smith

            There you go again with the same old crap. If the doctor was a “murderer” she wouldn’t have survived, guaranteed.

            BTW, did you hear about the scandal in Disney Land? Micky thought Donald was messing with Minny Mouse. He put out a contract on Donald Duck. The mechanic asked, “Should I bring you the body?” Micky said, No, just send me the bill.”

            BTW, she wasn’t messing with Donald. Turns out she was just ……. Goofy.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            In her case she was lucky, the abortion doctor that performed the abortion was not there when she was born 18 hours later. Lucky break for her. 7 1/2 months pregnant her mother was when she decided to have the abortion.

          • libertytrain

            I guess she was fortunate you weren’t there either, you’d have yourself in a tizzy trying to decide if she was or was not an acorn.

          • http://naver sook young

            How could the mother have an abortion at 7 1/2 months? That would take a partial birth abortion and they are illegal. I guess that woman would be considered a not good mother. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “I guess that woman would be considered a not good mother. ”

            What’s not good for the woman is for something to be dead and rotting inside her that if it goes to term it could kill her.

            Who are YOU or any other anti-abortion zealot to decide what is the best medical procedure for any particular incidence, notwithstanding Haskle’s single opinion?

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            Sook, apparently they are not or at least were not illegal in all States at the time of this woman, now 35ish, abortion birth in LA. She addresses that subject in one of the videos.

          • Robert Smith

            Hey sook young, you’ve messed up again: “That would take a partial birth abortion and they are illegal.”

            As a nurse you should know that it was the specific procedure that was banned. Later term (usually of WANTED fetuses where something went horribly wrong) abortions can stll be performed with other procedures.

            Ain’t much of a “nurse” if you didn’t know that IMO.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            Nothing was wrong with the baby other when this woman decided to have a late term abortion. It just happened that the desired effect of killing the baby didn’t happen. This occurred in Los Angeles. City of the “Lost” Angels.

          • Robert Smith

            It was in fact a baby when it was outside of her and others could take care of it without enslaving her as an individual.

            So, the “murder” you claim didn’t occur.

            BTW, it’s EXTREMELY rare.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            The killing of a child, no matter born or not, is still murder. Why don’t you read this and you tell me about abortion?

            http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1466808

            Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver sook young

            I found this one also Robert. It is basically telling how this is not just a war against the children, but against women also.

            http://www.lifenews.com/2011/10/27/clinic-workers-laugh-as-woman-injured-in-botched-abortion

            Thank you

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Dr. Kermit Gosnell. is a criminal. His enterprise was criminal.

            The state failed to catch him for many years.

            Yet another reason why we should not trust abortion issues to the government and it’s important for each woman to decide for herself.

            BTW, weren’t the “nurses” even if they weren’t legal? Are all nurses bad because they were? I doubt it, but your “logic” may vary.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Ahhhhh! Such word play to insult others and steal their rights. Nice twist of words Robert, but you still have make big mistakes. By making general assumptions you lose credibility. Also, i you work at our hospital as a nurse, you cannot work at an abortion clinic. This is part of our no compete clause and our morals clause we have in our contracts. I see you must not have taken the time to have read my posts. If you did, then you wouldn’t have made such general statements or questions about nurses. Sorry Robert, but doing what is morally and ethically right is more important on our job, then some decision by a liberal Supreme Court. The lives of the patients comes first. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            This also counts the life and health of the child in the womb.

          • Robert Smith

            Here goes sook young off the deep end again with her empty claim: “The killing of a child, no matter born or not, is still murder.”

            Actually only in your narrow religious context.

            The FACT is that abortion is mostly legal in most of America.

            Thus a prosicution is only in times of gross criminal activity like that criminal in Philly who I hope goes to jail.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Sook points out: “Also, i you work at our hospital as a nurse, you cannot work at an abortion clinic.”

            Really? Isn’t that the same as when you object to nurses not participating in abortions shouldn’t be fired?

            Hmmmmmm, looks to me like it’s OK for SOME hospitals to make rules about how people can or can’t work but others can’t.

            Which is it sook?

            Rob

  • Angel Wannabe

    Abortion fits the elites agenda of wanting to control the population. and hiding behind Planned Parenthood, my AZZ!

    Abortion isn’t Birth Control, it’s Murder!__A dead and innocent child for profit_talk about your “Blood Money”!

    • eddie47d

      It’s birth control to the woman who has 2 or 3 kids and absolutely can’t afford the ones she has. She has a right to make that abortion decision for the survival of her other children.

      • Angel Wannabe

        eddie___HEART BEAT = LIFE – NO HEART BEAT = DEAD!_IT’S ILLEGAL TO KILL, ESPECIALLY TO THOSE UNABLE TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES!_IF SOMEONE ELSE IS PERFORMING AN ABORTION AND THE CHILD DIES, ITS MURDER!

      • http://naver sook young

        If she can’t afford the children she has now, then why is she having sex and becomming pregnant? If you get pregnant, it is up to the parents to care for and raise the child and not kill it for any reason. Also, I agree with you Angel. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          sook young asks: “If she can’t afford the children she has now, then why is she having sex and becomming pregnant? ”

          Because sex isn’t just for having kids. MOF there is way more sex for recreation than for having kids.

          Who are YOU to decide why another has sex?

          Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie, who are you to care?

          • Robert Smith

            Angel asks why I care…

            It’s about freedom in America.

            Rob

        • Robert Smith

          Angel asks: “who are you to care?”

          I care about freedoms here in America. I consider it unAmerican to fight to oppress others as you are obviously arguing to do.

          I did my time in the militqary when I was younger, and now I’m doing what I’m capable of here to assure freedoms remain in America.

          I care about freedom. Too much blood has been spilled for right wing extremists to take it away.

          Rob

        • Angel Wannabe

          sook young_ so right, its comes back to personal responsibility!

        • http://naver sook young

          Say Robert, I found this interesting article. I remember about how you said a hospital in New Jersey had the right to tell nurses they had to perform abortions, no matter how they felt. Well, sorry, but you are wrong.

          radio.foxnews.com//toddstarnes/top-stories/congressman-says-hospital-guilty-of-abortion-coercion

          Looks like you are wrong again. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry, I forgot the www for this post.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From that article: “Matthew Bowman, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, filed the lawsuit on behalf of Vinoya and the eleven other nurses. who “possess strongly held religious and moral beliefs that she may not participate in the process of an abortion that causes the death of a preborn child.””

            IOW, just because a law suit is filed doesn’t mean that it is won.

            BTW, you haven’t even define what a human being is yet. Just what is it you are protecting? How can you convince anyone that an ooy gooy mess is a “baby?”

            BTW chimps have over 98% of DNA in common with human beings. My hair had DNA in it. Is that a “human being?”

            Rob

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young posted: “Also, i you work at our hospital as a nurse, you cannot work at an abortion clinic. ”

            Hmmmmmm… It’s OK for the right to limit employment but the standard is DIFFERENT when someone want’s to just get nurses to do nursing without political or religious influences.

            Let’s all clap and welcome yet another double standard from sook young and the extreme right.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            I think you’re mistaken – nurses tend to go into nursing to help people, not help kill them. That’s the double standard that you are saying they should accept. TO kill or not to kill that is the question.

          • Robert Smith

            Awwww, there you go with the “it’s a baby” thing again.

            Double talk just doesn’t work anymore.

            I can understand that nurses should help out in all legal medical procedures. Unfortunately not all are willing to offer complete health care. I find that very sad.

            BTW, what gives one hospital the right to limit where a woman can work (no abortion clinics) yet another can’t get them to work? Can’t you decide which it’s going to be? Either mess with the lives of nurses or stay out of them. How can you have both?

            Rob

        • http://naver sook young

          This is how people, like you, act towards our representatives that take a pro-life stance, regaurdless of political party.

          http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/news/30923-fellow-dems-attack-florida-rep-on-pro-life-stance.

          This also sounds like the immature rants you post on this site. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From that article: “She quoted from the book of Ezekiel and admonished members with the commandment “Thou shalt not kill.”

            “kill” is often misinterprited for “murder.” I’m optimistic that self defense and war are still allowed in her mind. Particularly that self (and that of her children) defense thing.

            So, the quote itself is bogus.

            Second, she is injecting HER religion into the law. What part of “EXTABLISH NO RELIGION” don’t you understand here in America?

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            What part of “…or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” do you not understand? So next thing you know, you’ll be attacking her God given right of free speech. The article was about how she broke ranks and sided with the pro-life members. As you have also found out that she is a mother of five and a nurse as well. We believe the same, but we live in different areas of the country. Patriots are everywhere and thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            samurai thinks: “So next thing you know, you’ll be attacking her God given right of free speech.”

            Nope. She can say what she wants, but I get to comment on it too.

            Sook young claims: “As you have also found out that she is a mother of five and a nurse as well.”

            A lawsuit initiated isn NOT a lawsuit won. It’s not honest to claim such before it’s gone through the courts.

            Sook claims: “Patriots are everywhere…”

            Yup, and they defend the rights of women to choose in America where abortion is mostly legal most places.

            Rob

  • former walmart person

    For some reason, pro choice doesn’t mean the freedom to choose to carry a gun anywhere you go, the freedom to choose to think conservatively or libertarian without reprisal, etc., etc. Curious.

    • Robert Smith

      From Former: ” pro choice doesn’t mean the freedom to choose to carry a gun anywhere you go,”

      Sadly you are correct. I’m pro-choice on firearms also.

      Something particularly bothersome to me is the notion that a semi-auto can’t be owned because of the way it looks. The notion of an “assault rifle” is 100% based on how the piece looks and not how it functions.

      BTW, I’m also pro-choce on recreational drugs, marriage, and several other topics. In a free America it ain’t none of the government’s business.

      Rob

      • http://naver sook young

        It is also none of their business about abortion or health insurance either. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          Is sook young really saying: “It is also none of their business about abortion or health insurance either. ”

          IOW, no government messing with abortion issue!

          Wow! Sook young has seen the light and maybe understands that if the government can outlaw abortion if they get control they can change administrations and force abortions.

          Congratulations sook young.

          Or, have you demonstrated that your posts are nothing but mindless rhetoric that you really don’t completely understand and someone else is pulling the strings behind you? Hi samurai ;-)

          Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            This would also include funding abortions, abortion institutions, and also making them legal, which are all due process of law. You still have no facts to prove me wrong. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young… (sigh)

            Abortion is mostly legal in most of America. Even if Roe v. Wade is attacked abortion will remain legal in many many states.

            IOW, the PEOPLE want it. Here in America that wins.

            Rob

  • former walmart person

    Actually, from a purely christian perspective, abortion is actually a good thing. Most Christians believe that babies that die go straight to Heaven since they don’t reach the magical age of accountability. It seems to me, the goal should be to murder all babies and send their souls straight to Heaven rather than taking a chance they will go to Hell for ever when they get older and die.

    • former walmart person

      This is why I don’t believe in Hell. It is an abomination of any kind of logic and reasoning, which God gave us. I think Hell was a middle age invention by the all powerful church to keep the slaves in line and back to their gardens.

      • JimH

        walmart, Are you willing to bet your eternal soul on that?

        • Robert Smith

          Ain’t nothing to bet if one doesn’t believe in that right wing brutal christian god.

          Why should I believe YOU that my soul is in any danger?

          Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, You don’t need to believe me.
            Let me guess you don’t follw GOOD advice either.

          • Robert Smith

            I rarely follow any advice. I look at as many sides as I can and then make my own decision.

            I’m an American. I’m allowed to do that, for now. I know the extreme right doesn’t want me to think, but that’s OK it isn’t illegal yet.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            JimH, RS is Baiting people.

          • Robert Smith

            Angel, I’d say that with your constant jabbing and pricking that you could easily qualify as the master baiter around here.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            Robbie, my constant pricking is because I don’t like you rob, your a big mouthed – miserable Alinsk-ite wannabe, who constantly baits and thinks you got the world by the go-nads…. a male none the less talking about something of which you know nothing about, unless you forced a woman of yours to have an abortion or your an abortion butcher yourself…. I think your playing a role rob, and getting paid for it….. capitalism comes in many forms, doesn’t it robbie, at least your working and I don’t have to help keep ya!?…Even the abortion butchers you revere get paid hansomely for taking lives…Yeah your free and clear to be anything or say anything you wanna robbie, but I’m free and clear not to like you either!

          • Angel Wannabe

            Robbie, why should we believe anything you say?

          • Robert Smith

            Looks to me like another prick from the right.

            BTW, I don’t get paid for my efforts. It is my donation to freedom loving Americans.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            Robbie, I see your a Misrable B*st*rd for free…that’s another feather in your cap!

          • Angel Wannabe

            Hey Robbie, while I’m at it, Beck just had on that Cas Sustine said “way back in 2008 that the GUV needs people who will infiltrate websites, who the GUV deems having “Conspiracy Theory Content” ya wouldn’t happen to know anything about that, would ya? :)

          • http://naver sook young

            Gee Robert, you believe in mudering babies, people getting high on drugs, and people of unnatural affections getting married and you say that you are for freedom loving Americans? The ways you believe have more government control than you realize. What better way to control people and the population than to support perversions, keeping them addicted to drugs, and population control? Please wake up and try to learn something before you post it here. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of he Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sook young claims: “What better way to control people and the population than to support perversions”

            Really? If one doesn’t care who (age appropriately, remember the priests) another has sex with why is it anyone’s business to devine “perversion?” Perversion has the ring of religion with it and as we know America hasn’t established a state religion.

            “keeping them addicted to drugs,”

            I’ve never advocated for addiction. RESPONSIBLE drug use, ie. not driving or taking advantage of another, is at the root of ethical drug behavior. BTW, pot isn’t addictive. I’m sure as a nurse you have been instructed on the difference between habituated and addiction. Then again, you haven’t demonstrated much knowledge thus far IMO.

            “and population control?”

            Each woman deciding abortion for or against for herself is at the root of what I’m advocating. I neither favor nor condemn the act itself. It isn’t my business any more than it is yours what any woman chooses.

            As far as “population control” and abortion goes that’s just another diaper load as far as a free America goes. If you want to see control in abortion issues go to China where folks are heavily encouraged to get one when they get pregnant. In America the government doesn’t decide, each woman does. A far better and free system for America. Why are you opposed to freedoms in America?

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but I cannot effectively answer your post as long as you rant and post no credible sources. Please post credible sources and change the ways you post. If you did, you may be taken more seriously. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Your refusal to undrstand is what I expect sook young.

            But choice is still far better. We enjoy unprecidented freedoms in America. Why are you opposed to freedoms in America?

            I know, I know. You don’t want to admit that you are opposed to freedoms in America. Oh well… We all know how that works.

            Rob

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        former walmart person and JimH

        The concept is Hell is nothing but a man made fabrication to scare people into beliving in silly myths that has nothing do with reality.The only thing that needs to be aborted is the Catholic Church and other Christian rip offs.Christianity is a religion for the weak minded and the gullible.

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Hey Angel,

          Do you like me?Ha ha ha Christ said; “love your enemies as you would love your self”.

          • http://naver sook young

            Actually, it is love your neighbor as you love yourself. Please post it correctly and thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • JimH

          Miner, You’ll have an eternity to figure out where you went wrong on that one.

          • Karolyn

            According to YOUR belief!

          • JimH

            Karolyn, Just because you’re in denial doesn’t mean it’s not real.

          • Angel Wannabe

            JimH, Ron White is right__YA JUST CAN’T FIX STUPID!

        • http://naver sook young

          You need to go back to church and seek God and Jesus, ask for their forgiveness, and change your life before its too late. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            sook young pleads: “You need to go back to church and seek God and Jesus, ask for their forgiveness, and change your life before its too late.”

            No I don’t. Go away from me with the religion of your brutal god.

            If I asked you to jump off a bridge so you could get to your brutal god’s heaven quicker I’m optimistic that you wouldn’t do that no matter how often I asked. I’ll bet you would want me to stop asking simply because you would claim I don’t understand.

            Well sook young, please understand that I don’t expect you to ever understand or care where I’m comming from or what I believe. However, I do want you to understand that I consider your efforts to enlist me in your religion after I’ve asked you to stop to be an intrusion.

            One thing I understand is that in America you can bleat all you want but I’m not and never will be obligated to listen.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie, waz the matter there robbie… your ego trip is showing, seems you think your some kinda God, eh?

          • Robert Smith

            Posted: “seems you think your some kinda God, eh?”

            Well let’s think about that…

            That there brutal christian god has allegedly given human beings free will (exept for the big ten that instructs folks to worship him and no others, etc.)

            Well! I’m all for free will for each woman to decide about abortion for herself. So… I’m on par with what that there brutal christian god has said, except that I mean it. I don’t need to be worshiped. MOF, I don’t even need to know who or when anyone gets pregnant and makes a decision. I don’t care.

            SO from a choice parsepctive I offer more than that alleged “free will” of the christian brutal god. From a caring point of view I don’t care what the decision is. I will never ever make a judgement.

            Oh, there are things I do care about. Among them is the health of my fellow Americans for example. I want to see everyone have equal access to health care.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie, I didn’t finish reading your comment “I got as far as “well lets think about that”__look bud, I ain’t neither impressed or intimidated.Your a Paid shill/plant nothing more!!!!! :)

          • http://naver sook young

            You are wrong again Robert. I’m not trying to “enlist” you into anything, just telling you the truth. If you don’t believe what I’m telling you, then you will find out you were wrong in the afterlife. You say about “jumping off of a bridge” thing? The reason I wouldn’t do it is because it is suicide. Suicide is a sin and you would fall short of heaven. When God said, “Thou shalt not kill”, he also meat not killing yourself also. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “If you don’t believe what I’m telling you, then you will find out you were wrong in the afterlife. ”

            Even Hudini was unable to get a message back from the “afterlife.”

            You can’t prove it is real.

            May I suggest that you quit imposing your beliefs upon others?

            Rob

  • JimH

    1 in 5 is 20%. If the World Health Organization made a statement that there is an outbreak of a new strain of flu virus, that will kill 20% of the worlds children by the end of the year, people would be looking for ways to stop it. I guess since abortion isn’t flu there isn’t the urgency. 20% will still die. It just won’t get the press coverage.

    • Robert Smith

      Folks have missed a point. There is LESS abortion in places where there is LESS anti-abortion activity.

      I’ll bet that’s because folks can be educated about birth control and such things so they don’t get pregnant in the first place.

      It’s a fact that because of education and birth control Planned Parenthood has prevented more abortions than any right wing organization.

      Rob

      • Karolyn

        Actually, there are less unplanned pregnancies in countries where sex is talked about and not hidden, primarily countries where Christianity does not have such a hold. Those societies also have less sex crimes and violence in general.

        • http://naver sook young

          Can you please cite a source about this? Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young asks: “Can you please cite a source about this?”

            Didn’t you read the article at the beginning of this thread?

            It clearly says: “Restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates,” the study says.”

            Or, you can check out USA Today. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-01-26-1Ateenpregnancy26_ST_N.htm: “Guttmacher and others suggest the increase is related to a focus on abstinence-only sex education programs under the Bush administration.

            Funding for abstinence doubled from 2000 to 2003, to $120 million. By 2008, funding was at $176 million.”

            I think it’s sad that so many kids are misled by the extreme right.

            Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie robbie robbie, abortion has been performed for years, in the shadows….if anyone wants and abortion…then let them pay for it outta their pockets….I ain’t being party too it…there is arguments over roe vs wade all over buddy boy…it still doesn’t make it right!…add more stupid azzed links here-> :)__nothing changes a believers mind, not even you!

          • Robert Smith

            From Angel: “nothing changes a believers mind, not even you!”

            True! You finally got one right…

            I’m not out to change your mind. It’s fun just showing how closed it is and demonstrating your willingness to enslave women to pregnancies they don’t want. Thanks for all the fine examples of the extreme right. I do appreciate it. Keep on keeping on Angel. Anyone who watches will understand just how weak the “arguments” are from the right when one really takes them appart.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            It is apparent rob, that your mind is not open.

          • Robert Smith

            “It is apparent rob, that your mind is not open.”

            When there is choice it matters not to me what that coice might be.

            So, I’m not open to enslavement of women in the abortion issue. I’m open to freedom in America.

            Can’t say as much for you.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            You are right, it is apparent you’re into murdering babies…

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but something that leftward leaning and biased is not a credible source. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            Also, just look at China to prove just how wrong you are.

          • Robert Smith

            Awww sook young, there you go implying that I am wrong: “Also, just look at China to prove just how wrong you are.”

            How does China prove that I’m “wrong?”

            I condemn their policy on heavily coersed abortion andthink women should have as much of a choice to carry to term there as they do in America.

            CHOICE works both ways.

            To be clear: I condemn the China policy about abortion.

            I fear that if the US government gets control of abortion that they can just as easily force abortion as force carrying to term through laws. I think that is BAD for America.

            Rob

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Religion, Violence, Crime and Mass Suicide
          Karolyn and Sook Young

          http://www.humanreligions.info/violence_and_crime.html -
          The religious attitude towards religion is to behave like an ostrich and stick its head in the sand, hoping that theology can override biological truth, but … This is one reason why countries that have liberal laws on abortion also have much lower rates of abortion than highly religious countries that …

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Karolyn and Sook Young
            Atheists don’t commit as much crime as the Religious do
            http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/atheist-dont-commit-as-much-crime-as-the-religious-do -
            Dec 9, 2010 … The non-religious, pro-evolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society … that the United States, while still one of the most religious countries on earth, … That’s at least 40 times lower than would be expected from random ….. more acts of violence have occurred in history (and today) from religious …

          • http://naver sook young

            “The Smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a Nation that disregards the eternal rules of Order and Right, which Heaven itself Ordained.”

            George Washington

            “A Bible and a newspaper in every house, a good school inevery district, all studied and appreciated as they merit, are the principle support of virtue, morality, and civil liberty.”

            Benjamin Franklin
            March1778

            Also you need to remember this one.

            “Atheists have significantly more lifetime suicide attempts, more relatives that commit suicide, are younger, less often married, less often have children, and have less contact with family members. Atheists perceive fewer reasons for living are more impulsive, agressive, and abuses substances more often.”

            This one I’ve posted last was from “Religious Affiliation, Atheism and Suicide.”

            adherents.com/misc/religion_suicide.html

            Lack of religion leads to moral and ethical decay of nations and not religious beliefs. Sorry Coal miner, but you have also been proven wrong. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver sook young

            I’ve forgotten to add www to the source I’ve posted, sorry. Thank you.

            Sook Yong
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young who claims: “Lack of religion leads to moral and ethical decay of nations and not religious beliefs.”

            Of course I’d expect a right wing article to support such but “morality” for one isn’t necessarily the same as “morality” for another.

            The study cites countries that allow assisted suicide that have laws also favoring freedoms in recreational drug use. IOW, they are fundimally “immoral” in your eyes to begin with. Certaily slanted, but I can understand that.

            Further, when assisted suicide was put up for the PEOPLE to decide it won in Oregon TWICE.

            Who are you to force anotehr to suffer with MS or ALS when they want to exit gracefully?

            IOW, “morality” sure is different for those who aren’t of the extreme right who will deny freedoms to others.

            Rob

      • JimH

        Rob(The Souless one), 20% are being aborted. Because of not in spite of Planned Parenthood. (Slay the Children) Try not to miss the point.
        If we use your logic, if not for the effort of Planned Parenthood and the rightwing organizations the abortion rate would be 50%.
        An abortion mill doesn’t prevent abortions though, so your logic is flawed.
        Now if they did the education part and dropped the abortion part there might be a redeeming factor to Planned Parenthood.

        • s c

          JimH, American utopians have been dumbed-down by their masters, so in a way, they can be forgiven for a certain amount of reinforced ignorance. BUT, if they dared to read and do some research (that AIN”T gonna happen), they’d discover that starting with Teddy Roosevelt, eugenics was exported from here to Germany. That’s where Hitler and his utopians picked up on it and used it to permamently ‘reform’ German Jews (and whatever other nationalities they could round up).
          Margaret Sanger is America’s premiere, murderous abortion jockstrapper. The current prez sees no problem with blacks suffering much more than their “fair share” via abortions. In effect, Obummer has blessed abortions.
          Not long ago, Jesse Jackson accused Obummer of not being ‘black enough.’ For once in his life, Jesse may have been right.
          After all, if you can bless black babies being aborted (a polite way to describe Obummer), being black and proud of it is NOT a part of what makes Obummer tick. Anyone who can not blink or THINK when babies are being murdered can’t claim to be a man or a woman or a human. That’s what being a utopian is all about, JimH. Hitler’s followers have been laughing because of that for many, MANY years. Utopians here will never understand how or why. It seems to make a good case for the idea that utopians are not human (it’s too inconvenient, and it’s just not pc).

          • eddie47d

            [Personal attack removed]

          • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear eddie47d,

            Please refrain from making personal attacks, as this is a violation of our terms of use.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Jay

            People don’t talk about this anymore, as it isn’t politically correct, but many “great leaders” advocated eugenics. Winston Churchill was a prime proponent of eugenics in England. Teddy Roosevelt, Calvin Coolidge and other presidents during this period were strong proponents of eugenic policies. They openly worried that the professional classes were not reproducing in sufficient numbers. Progressive sociologist, and good friend of Teddy Roosevelt, Edward Alsworth Ross, called it race suicide. Race suicide was going on because the able women were not producing enough kids. Professional classes were going to be swamped by the inferior products of their own race, that is, the worker classes.

            There were efforts to teach students the value of eugenic mating. You could go back to biology and civics textbooks of the time and you’ll see eugenic mating advice, and the importance of having large families. Organizations would hold “fitter family” contests, much like “best sheep” contests.

            Eugenic fitness was proposed as a prerequisite for marriage. Many States adopted laws requiring eugenic tests before a person could get married. Some churches, such as the Episcopal Church, actively proposed that only eugenically fit people could be married. Some countries adopted tax and employment policies to encourage its able citizens to have children.

          • Robert Smith

            Jay ponts out: “but many “great leaders” advocated eugenics. ”

            How can it be eugenics when the only one making a choice is the individual woman?

            Is it eugenics when any woman chooses who to mate with?

            Is it eugenics when someone from the far right wants to breed more rapists when an abortion from a rape is denied?

            BTW, if eugenics were so effective how’s come there are gay people? After all, they don’t generally have sex for reproduction. MOF, most of the folks born gay came from a heterosexual union. You can ask Dick Chaney about that one.

            Rob

          • Jay

            Robert, seems you’re experiencing difficulty understanding, the definition, and application, or purpose, of Eugenics. Allow me to assist.

            Eugenics |yoōˈjeniks|

            The science of improving a human population by controlled breeding to increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics. Developed largely by Francis Galton as a method of improving the human race, it fell into disfavor only after the perversion of its doctrines by the Nazis.

            Eugenics is the “applied science or the bio-social movement which advocates the use of practices aimed at improving the genetic composition of a population”, usually referring to human populations. The origins of the concept of eugenics began with certain interpretations of Mendelian inheritance, and the theories of August Weismann. Historically, many of the practitioners of eugenics viewed eugenics as a science, not necessarily restricted to human populations; this embraced the views of Darwin and Social Darwinism.

            Eugenics was widely popular in the early decades of the 20th century. The First International Congress of Eugenics in 1912 was supported by many prominent persons, including: its president Leonard Darwin, the son of Charles Darwin; honorary vice-president Winston Churchill, then First Lord of the Admiralty and future Prime Minister of the United Kingdom; Auguste Forel, famous Swiss pathologist; Alexander Graham Bell, the inventor of the telephone; among other prominent people.The National Socialists’ (NSDAP) approach to genetics and eugenics became focused on Eugen Fischer’s concept of phenogenetics and the Nazi twin study methods of Fischer and Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer.

            Eugenics was a controversial concept even shortly after its creation.The first major challenge to eugenics was made in 1915 by Thomas Hunt Morgan, who demonstrated the event of genetic mutation occurring outside of inheritance involving the discovery of the birth of a fruit fly with white eyes from a family and ancestry of the red-eyed Drosophila melanogaster species of fruit fly. Morgan claimed that this demonstrated that major genetic changes occurred outside of inheritance and that the concept of eugenics based upon genetic inheritance was severely flawed.

            By the mid-20th century eugenics had fallen into disfavor, having become associated with Nazi Germany.

            Both the public and some elements of the scientific community have associated eugenics with Nazi abuses, such as enforced “racial hygiene”, human experimentation, and the extermination of “undesired” population groups. However, developments in genetic, genomic, and reproductive technologies at the end of the 20th century have raised many new questions and concerns about the meaning of eugenics and its ethical and moral status in the modern era, effectively creating a resurgence of interest in eugenics.

            History tid-bit

            Pre-Galtonian philosophies
            The philosophy was most famously expounded by Plato, who believed human reproduction should be monitored and controlled by the state. However, Plato understood this form of government control would not be readily accepted, and proposed the truth be concealed from the public via a fixed lottery.

            Mates, in Plato’s Republic, would be chosen by a “marriage number” in which the quality of the individual would be quantitatively analyzed, and persons of high numbers would be allowed to procreate with other persons of high numbers. In theory, this would lead to predictable results and the improvement of the human race. However, Plato acknowledged the failure of the “marriage number” since “gold soul” persons could still produce “bronze soul” children. Plato’s ideas may have been one of the earliest attempts to mathematically analyze genetic inheritance, which was not perfected until the development of Mendelian genetics and the mapping of the human genome.

            Hope this helps, Robert.

          • Jay

            The theory of eugenics is the purest distillation of anti-life thinking. The practice of eugenics is simply the anti-life movements in action. The theory and practice of eugenics covers the entire spectrum of the “slippery slope,” from artificial contraception to abortion to euthanasia to genocide, and also encompasses many other evils as well.

            Eugenics is and always has been a racist philosophy. Even some pro-abortion theorists recognize that it is always wealthy white people who drive the movement to exterminate those they consider imperfect – and many times, dark skin is considered an “imperfection”. As radical feminist Ninia Baehr has observed, “Historically, white, heterosexual, able-bodied, middle-class men and women in the population control, birth control, eugenics, and abortion rights movements have not respected the choices of people who were different from them.

            The second hallmark of eugenics is its use of abortion. Both on a national and a personal scale, prenatal diagnosis and abortion are the ideal tools for eliminating the less-than-perfect. In China, India and other Asian countries, this lethal combination has led to the deaths of tens of millions of preborn babies – not because they were handicapped, but because they were female (see Chapter 4, “China’s Forced Abortion Program”). In the United States, the National Institute of Health (NIH) has found that parents aborted more than 95 percent of all preborn babies who were found “defective” by prenatal genetic tests.

            In summary, eugenics is the foundation for “scientific racism;” it is the driving force behind abortion, euthanasia, embryo and fetal research, the global population policy, and a galaxy of other evils so bizarre they would have been unimaginable to even the most inventive science-fiction writer in the 1950s.

            Eugenics philosophy is ingrained in all of the social sciences, to include anthropology, sociology and psychology. Since it is so pervasive, it is worth studying and understanding.

            Evil Refined. Until the mid-1980s in North America and Europe, eugenics practice had been limited to dictating that it is we, not God, who determines who will be born into this world (through the widespread practice of abortion). We are now at the point where eugenics may very well determine who will remain here (through the growing practices of infanticide, euthanasia, ‘medicide’ and ‘senicide’).

            Eugenics certainly did not die with the Third Reich. The eugenics “movement” flourished long before Hitler came to power, and it is certainly alive and well today. In fact, it is stronger now than it ever has been. And, since its adherents have learned their lessons regarding the value of the tactics of stealth, deception, incrementalism, and propaganda from long experience, the eugenics movement is far deadlier.

            http://www.hli.org/index.php/cloning/211?task=view

          • Robert Smith

            Hey Jay, about eugenics: “The science of improving a human population by controlled breeding”

            How is any woman’s CHOICE control?

            By the very definition you give eugenics can NOT be part of choice.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Jay states: “The theory of eugenics is the purest distillation of anti-life thinking.”

            Wow! Thank goodness I’m not “anti-life” except in whacked how right wing inflammitory rhetoric.

            I am pro-choice.

            Again, I’ll ask: How can any individual’s CHOICE even remotely be construed as eugenics?

            Rob

        • Robert Smith

          From JimH: “An abortion mill doesn’t prevent abortions though, so your logic is flawed.”

          No flaw. Planned Parenthood isn’t an abortion mill. They supply a wide range of medical treatment and advice.

          BTW, it clear FROM THE ARTICLE ABOVE; The point was made where there is less anti-abortion activity there is less abortion.

          I see the reason for that as being that education is allowed for birth control, etc.

          That still means that because PP offers a bunch of medical and education information about birth control that they are still preventing more pregnancies than any right wing efforts.

          Do you have any objections to age appropriate sex education in our schools? After all, it’s certainly OK in a biology class.

          Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, PP is an abortion mill. They DO abortions there. More denial?
            Maybe they do other services. Al Capone donated money to breadlines and soup kitchens but he was still a THUG and PP is still an abortion mill that happens to do other things.
            Maybe areas that have less abortion activity require less anti abortion activity instead of the other way around.

          • Robert Smith

            Posted: “They DO abortions there.”

            Is every place an abortion is done an “abortion mill?”

            Seems to me to be a bit arbitrary and high handed if it is as such.

            Or, are you simply trying to dump on PP because you don’t like them?

            Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, and your point?

          • Robert Smith

            My point is that anyplace that an abortion occurs is NOT necessarily an abortion mill.

            Also that it appears you are dumping on Planned Parenthood gratuitiously.

            Many of the PP facilities don’t do any abortions at all. Often in some places they are the only health care available for miles around. They take care of reproductive health issues, and many other things like breast cancer screening.

            Too bad you appear to be so willing to endanger women who otherwise wouldn’t have much health care available to them.

            Rob

            Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, There you go side tracking again. We are talking about the morality of abortions and your stuck on the definition of abortion mill. Petty stuff. YOUR POINT?

          • JimH

            Rob, To bad your so willing to just kill babies that other wise might have had the chance to live.

          • Robert Smith

            Posted: ” We are talking about the morality of abortions ”

            “morality” is a personal / religious issue and has NO place in American law because of its percieved connection to religion.

            The fact is that one can be “moral” and not believe what’s gestating is a “human being.”

            BTW, if you want to discuss the morality you haven’t defined what it is you want to save. Can you?

            Define a human being.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            There goes JimH with his right wing lie: “To bad your so willing to just kill babies…”

            I have never killed a baby, nor do I ever wish to. I’ve explained this to you before so now it’s clear you are KNOWINGLY posting outright false information.

            Thus proving that you are willing to violate that big ten with lies. What kind of a christian are you if you lie?

            Rob

          • JimH

            You vehemently support abortion (the killing of unborn babies by their mothers.)
            You may not have personaly performed one, but you support those who do. So it’s not a lie,
            I’ve never endangered health care to a woman. Who’s the lier?
            Does someone who wants to save the whales need to give you a definition of whale?
            All you need to know is that an unborn baby being carried by a human is also human. Another attempt to change the subject.
            Maybe your lack of morals makes you believe it’s moral to abort a baby.
            Morals are not a personal choice. A pcycotic serial killer doesn’t believe what they are doing is wrong. What’s you personal take on that?

          • http://naver sook young

            Planned Parenthood performs thousands of abortions a year, so you could call it an abortion mill. But by how many states have defunded them and are passing laws against abortions across the country, it is only a matter of time till this blight is lifeted off of us by God. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            JimH states: “You vehemently support abortion (the killing of unborn babies by their mothers.)”

            Absolutely FALSE. I support choice. Please learn the difference.

            More from Jim: “You may not have personaly performed one, but you support those who do.”

            I support fair taxes too. So? The fact is that without qualified doctors to perform legal medical procedures there is NO choice. I’m for choice so the twisting and turnings of the extreme right to make claims abour me are exactly that.

            “So it’s not a lie,”

            Sure is. The English language only goes so far before it breaks and it’s obvious what you are doing.

            “I’ve never endangered health care to a woman. Who’s the lier?”

            Really? Do you support universal health care for those who otherwise might not have access to it? Women are dying every day because of a lack of health care. Sook young has often said they need to “earn” it. Are you with her or supporting universal health care?

            “Does someone who wants to save the whales need to give you a definition of whale?”

            Most certainly. You’ve never applied for a grant, have you? The details are important. If you want to enslave any woman for 9 months I want to know what you are enslaving her for.

            “All you need to know is that an unborn baby being carried by a human is also human. Another attempt to change the subject.”

            NO “change of subject.” Particularly early in pregnancy what’s going on will easily run through my fingers as a gooy mess. There is no resemblance to a born human being so either it is something else or you need to define it in the context of what is a human being.

            “Maybe your lack of morals makes you believe it’s moral to abort a baby”

            Two on one. Good job, Jim… First it isn’t proven that it’s a “baby.” Certainly a process, but it ain’t a “baby” anymore than an acorn is a tree. Oops there goes that acorn thing again. Note that I’m not calling a fetus an acorn. I’m simply demonstrating what a process is.

            Morals! Yours are based in religion and that’s OK for you. Mine are based differently than yours. They are real for me and that’s all you need to know about that. Otherwise it ain’t none of your business as long as I don’t try to inflict them upon you.

            Jim says: “Morals are not a personal choice.”

            Bingo!

            “A pcycotic serial killer doesn’t believe what they are doing is wrong. What’s you personal take on that?”

            What they are doing violates the social contract that we shall not “murder,” a clearly legally defined term. So, they are crimnals. Abortion is mostly LEGAL, thus it is not murder.

            BTW, I believe that supporting choice for women, supporting minorities being treated equally, more forms of recreational drugs than alcohol being permitted, reduced gun laws, and bunches of other freedoms for Americans are the moral thing to do.

            Gonna put me in jail for any of that? What social contracts (laws) have I violated her in America?

            Are you from someplace else where you might not understand the above?

            Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, You say you don’t support mothers killing unboern babies, but you support choice. What do you think these mothers are choosing to do? And you suport them making that choice. You support murder. It isn’t complicated.
            Your morals, or lack of become other peoples buisness when others are being hurt or killed by them.
            Acorns are a seed. When they sprout they become an oak.(Avery small oak but an oak it is) When sperm meets the egg, they “sprout” and become human. Your acorn and house plan analogy are lacking.
            Your hung up on “legal”. There are many things that are legal and still wrong.
            You say a moral person can believe abortion is acceptable. Morals aren’t an oppinion. They can believe it’s acceptable, but it won’t make it so.

          • Robert Smith

            Jim observes: “You say a moral person can believe abortion is acceptable.”

            Yup. I just don’t agree with YOUR morals.

            This is America and abortion is allowed. It’s that simple. Each woman gets to decide what is “moral” for her. YOU DON’T.

            Ain’t America great!

            Rob

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Sook Young,Says
          Atheists have significantly more lifetime suicide attempts, more relatives that commit suicide, are younger, less often married, less often have children, and have less contact with family members. Atheists perceive fewer reasons for living are more impulsive, agressive, and abuses substances more often.”
          These are actual facts.What you posted,is nothing but horse Sh*tYou are a bigger liar than your so called husband.I want the link that proves me wrong.Where are your sources?My kids never took drugs,neither did my grand children.

          • http://naver sook young

            Coal Miner, don’t you ever swear at me again. I answered your postings politely and I expect the same in return. Next, if you had read my post, you would have seen the source I gave. Since you didn’t bother to read it, here it is again:

            http://www.adherents.com/misc/religion_suicide.html

            Can you read it this time? Next, I did not say that all atheists do drug, etc., but they have a greater number of them that do these things. Your kids are atheists? That may be their choice, but they will find out they made the wrong choice after they die. y do you attack me Coal Miner? Did I attack you or call you names? No, I did not. I’ve also experienced this at my job. Many of our patients that are there for drug dependency, alcoholism, suicide watches, and many other things claim to be atheists. Not all of them of course, but at least two thirds of them admit to be an atheist. Please do not answer my postings if all you are going to do is sound so childish. I only want mature, adult conversation. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young, sook young, sook young… Your piece proves nothing except that a righ wing study can prove just about anything.

            Please not the simple challenge to the fundimental methology of the study: “METHOD: Depressed inpatients (N=371) who reported belonging to one specific religion or described themselves as having no religious affiliation were compared in terms of their demographic and clinical characteristics.”

            Self reporting is notoriously unreliabl in such studies.

            For example there are situations where what is said by the patient can be compared to direct physical evidence.

            The Sexual Experience Scale (SES) from the Derogatis
            Sex’ual Functioning Inventory is an excellent example.

            You an find it at: Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 17, No. 6, 1988
            Is There a Reliable and Valid Self-Report
            Measure of Sexual Behavior?
            Barbara L. Andersen, Ph.D., 1 and Barbara Broffitt, M.SY

            The conclusin is in part: “As many other psychological measures, the
            SES was poor in predicting a criterion (i.e., the occurrence of sexual dysfunction)concurrently or at the time of follow-up.”

            In other words your source isn’t much because it can easily be seen that their methodology was flawed.

            Rob

      • http://naver sook young

        You mean that they have performed more abortions than any other organization. I guess you have forgotten about China. They have lots of education there, but there are still many abortions. Sorry, but you are wrong Robert.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

        P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          From sook young who declares: “You mean that they have performed more abortions than any other organization.”

          NO, and I never said any such thing.

          Why are you trying to tell folks what I mean when I’ve otherwise been very clear in expressing myself?

          Quite frankly I consider such to be unethical, but that’s what I expect from the extreme right.
          Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            How dare you sit there and claim to be for freedom, when your views are not freedom at all. How can you say such utter nonsense and try to wrap it up in the American Flag?

            “…to attain a serious end it behooves not to stop at any means or count the victims sacrificed for the sake of that end.”

            Protocol 15: The Wise Elders of Zion

            The ones sacrificed here are the children, but you are to blind to see just exactly what you are doing and stand for. You are no better than the Zionists that wrote this book. Please take some time to reflect on your misguided ways before you answer me. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young’s OPINOIN is: “Please take some time to reflect on your misguided ways before you answer me.”

            Your biased right wing opinion just doesn’t apply to me sook young.

            What will it take to get you to understand that point?

            Rob

  • Jan

    Why can’t politics stay out of things? Every major sporting event, The Oscars, etc always has some dimwit putting in their 2 cents. Between the abortion thing & the OWS crowd planning on disrupting the SuperBowl, I may not watch it..

  • Robert Smith

    From Jan: “Between the abortion thing & the OWS crowd planning on disrupting the SuperBowl, I may not watch it..”

    I’m kinda longing for the days of Janet Jackson and little kids saying, “Lunch!”

    Why would any station be fined for showing something natural for feeding a little kid?

    Rob

    • Honestly

      You are a true lost individule and it is right to feel sorry for you. You are so arrogant you will not listen to anything reasonable and for that reason alone you deserve our sympathy and prayers. The really good thing about prayers is it is between the person saying the prayer and Almighty God, not your choice.

      • Robert Smith

        Posted: “The really good thing about prayers is it is between the person saying the prayer and Almighty God, not your choice.”

        If you are preying to make a change in ME (casting a spell) that is spiritual rape.

        If you are preying for understanding that there are folks in this world who don’t want any part of your brutal god I have no problem.

        Rob

    • http://naver sook young

      Leave it to Robert to want to see a woman’s breast on national television. Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

      P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Robert Smith

        From sook: “Leave it to Robert to want to see a woman’s breast on national television.”

        Quit lying by implication. I NEVER said such. I asked a question: Why should stations be fined.

        Rob

        • http://naver sook young

          No, no, no, Robert. You said about showing something natural for feeding young kids. That is what you said and not so much about being fined. You’ve just been caught in your own lie, so how does it feel? Like I have told people before, that Janet Jackson had her breast exposed and a woman is not to expose herself in public. Afetr she was exposed, her singing carrer kind of went down after that. Please try to tell the truth before you post. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            So much nonsense, so little knowledge. Janet Jackson is doing OK.

            For example: “In 2010, [after the Superbowl exposure] the magazine announced the “Top 50 R&B / Hip-Hop Artists of the Past 25 Years”, ranking her at number five. One of the world’s most awarded artists, her longevity, records and achievements reflect her influence in shaping and redefining the scope of popular music. She has been cited as an inspiration among numerous performers.”

            You can check out the entire article at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Jackson

            BTW, from that same article (just in case you don’t respect hip hop): “She is ranked by Forbes magazine as one of the richest women in entertainment. ”

            Do you respect Forbes as a reference?

            What was that other nonsense you were ranting about? It didn’t make enough sense for me to understand.

            Rob

  • Mom Henning

    Most of the commments that have been presented in this discussion seem to have more heat than light, to my way of thinking. As a mother of five, obviously I am not a big fan of the abortion process. I felt that I did not want to trust life and limb to the ministrations of the medical profession by climbing up on a butcher block. To me, it was obvious these surgeons have little respect for life, mine or my progeny. I feel that an abortion can have a very negative effect on a woman’s mental health, and may cause regrets that may last a lifetime, even when it doesn’t seem to have any lasting physical consequences that are obvious. There is more to a person than their physical body, there is an energy field to be considered that might also be adversely affected. We are not going to go beyond this into the realm of religion or politics. To me it was not an issue of either, it was a health issue, and I felt that an abotion had the possibility to be dangerous to my health, and certainly to the health of the fetus. Folks can have about as much of heaven or hell as they want right here on earth, if a good outcome is desired it is about making the correct choices that are right for them.

  • Mom Henning

    Three people were asked when life begins: a priest, a lawyer, and a teenager. The priest claimed that life begins at conception, the lawyer declared that life begins at birth, but the teenager really got it right when he said that life begins when you get your drivers license! Lighten up folks, this is a hot button issue.

  • wanda kelly

    Thanks, mom hennings. u can only beat a dead horse for so long… i think everyone should agree to disagree and that, as AMERICANS, that is what we fought and died for–the idea that we can all believe what we want!

    • Robert Smith

      Yup, freedom to choose what one believes and act accordingly. That’s what America is about.

      I’m curious… What gives anyone the right to tell any woman about abortion?

      Are they smarter?

      More religious (and in America that doesn’t count)?

      Wiser?

      Brain washed?

      Just looking for ways to dominate others?

      Just what is it that makes any one who is anti abortion any better than any woman who wants to decide for herself?

      Rob

      • JimH

        Well Rob, WE tell people they can’t murder people after they’re borm. Why? Are we smarter than them?
        Are we more religious?
        Are we brain washed?
        Do we want to dominate them?
        Does a human need a belly button to be protected under the law from being murdered?
        What is it that makes one against murdering others better than the killer deciding if they should kill someone?

        • Robert Smith

          Question asked: “Well Rob, WE tell people they can’t murder people after they’re borm. Why?”

          It’s called a “social contract.” I won’t kill you or your kin if you don’t kill me or mine.

          The church violated that during the inquisitions and crusades.

          Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, You still didn’t answer the question.
            It’s a social contract just doesn’t get it. If I murder someone I’m charged with murder, not breach of contract. Murder is against the law.
            DO YOU NEED A BELLY BUTTON TO BE PROTECTED UNDER THE LAW? you seem to be avoiding that question.
            The Crusades were a war to take territory back, that was stolen fron Christian by the Muslims not a murder.
            Just because the church was wrong during the inquisition doesn’t make mothers killing their own unborn children justified.
            Since you need to bring up irrelivent points and can’t refute what I say, give it up.

          • Robert Smith

            Another word for “social contract” is law.

            Agreement in them can be reached without divine intervention.

            Rob

          • JimH

            Hi Rob, You STILL didn’t answer my question. And yes you don’t need divine intervention to know that murder is wrong and abortion is murder. So just what is your lame point? (oops another question)

          • Robert Smith

            Jim H asks the question: DO YOU NEED A BELLY BUTTON TO BE PROTECTED UNDER THE LAW?”

            Moot question. It is already covered if it is connected to a born human being. To attack it is an assault.

            There question answered.

            Interesting little inquisition you have going. As a bunch of dumb questions (BTW, how many of my inteligent questions have you answered) and then pound for not getting an acceptable answer.

            Tactics over substance, Jim. Shows a disingenuious form of discussion IMO.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            JimH asks: “So just what is your lame point?”

            My “lame” point is that freedom in America applies to women and the choices they make about their own bodies in the issues of reproduction, health, and everything else.

            What gives you the right to tell any woman she can’t have an abortion or die her hair purple? This is America. It ain’t none of your business.

            That’s my point. This is America and it ain’t none of your business.

            There, another question from your inquisition answered.

            Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, I have refuted your points, if you bothered to read it. Your “inteligent” answers? Only in your mind.
            What gives me the right to say a woman can’t have an abortion?
            The same reason we say people can’t murder, or rape or steal.
            Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s moral. By moral I don’t just limit it to a religious meaning. The secular meaning also.
            If a mother can kill her unborn child, why stop there?
            Is it my place to say a mobster can’t have a witness in a trial against him killed?
            Is it my place to stop a rape in progress if I witness it?
            YES.
            Intresting point. It took three trys before you anwered my question instead of trying to change the subject and you still didn’t really answer it.
            I really don’t care what color anyones hair is, as long as they’re not hurting or killing anyone.

          • JimH

            You talk about “issues of reprduction and health”.
            Abortion isn’t reproduction, nor is it healthy for the baby. It’s about STPPING health and reproduction.

          • Robert Smith

            Question: What gives me the right to say a woman can’t have an abortion?

            Answer (sort of): “The same reason we say people can’t murder, or rape or steal.”

            Murder, rape, and stealing are illegal in America. Abortion is mostly legal. That was determined following our Constitution.

            BTW, we agree that murder, rape, and stealing are wrong so we’ve made a social contract (a law) that we will abide by those rules that relate to those three things.

            In the case of abortion we have reached no such social contract and thus in a FREE America women are free to decide for themselves. Ain’t America great!

            “Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s moral. By moral I don’t just limit it to a religious meaning. The secular meaning also.”

            Really? Are you admitting that people can be moral outside of hooking up with that right wing brutal christian god so often cited around here?

            BTW, “moral” is both a personal and relative thing. For example killing is often considered immoral but when we go to war or in self defense it’s generally OK. So, who gets to define moral? For me abortion is moral, just as any other personal thing that doesn’t impact another (oh boy here comes the “it’s a baby” now).

            “If a mother can kill her unborn child, why stop there?”

            Because that’s where society has put the stops. When it’s born any member of society can take care of it voluntarily and as a society we have decided that is a good thing.

            “Is it my place to say a mobster can’t have a witness in a trial against him killed?”

            No, you as an uninvolved citizen can’t stay in the way of a free trial. Although those involved in the trial may have the ability to decide about such things much of our society is based upon a fair trial.

            “Is it my place to stop a rape in progress if I witness it?
            YES.”

            I agree. A rape should be stopped and further if the criminal can be held for authorities it is a responsibility to do so.

            “you still didn’t really answer it.”

            Sure I did. You apparently refuse to understand, don’t understand, or don’t like the answers. Too bad.

            “I really don’t care what color anyones hair is, as long as they’re not hurting or killing anyone.”

            Now you are demonstrating a modicum of the freedoms I’m talking about. Now, if I can just get you to understand that a woman shouldn’t be enslaved for 9 months just because you think she should be. There might be hope for America yet. Oops, abortion is still mostly legal. As a society we have made the right decision.

            Rob

          • JimH

            Yes Rob, here it comes. IT IS A BABY. Your whole arguement is based on it not being one. You can’t prove it isn’t, IMO I did prove it is.
            You talk about a trial, who defended the (yes it’s a) baby. No trial there.
            Aparently the modicum of freedoms doesn’t protect the life of that baby the Mother is so selfissly killing.

          • Robert Smith

            JimH claims: “You can’t prove it isn’t…”

            Oooy gooy, it just ran through my fingers. It sure doesn’t look like a baby. It didn’t cry, it didn’t move, it simply was a slimy gooey mess that drained onto the floor.

            Later during the pregnancy there is still stuff missing. Primarily there is no thought. The neurons (if there are any yet) aren’t connected to be able to produce thought.

            Further, you haven’t defined a “human being” yet so how can you make such a claim about what it “is?”

            Rob

          • JimH

            OOoy gooy, Wow Rob You just disproved my point. With such itelectual wit. When your mother was pregnant with you that would describe it. All the other mothers have human beings.
            Living, human tissue that is growing. Not goo.
            Later in the pregnancy not all the stuff is there. There is no primary thought. That would describe Democrats, can we kill them? How about amputies, the aren’t whole?
            Your reaching goo boy. You didn’t prove a thing.

          • Robert Smith

            Awww Jim… You post: “All the other mothers have human beings.”

            Are you trying to suggest that I am not a human being?

            That appears to be kind of radical.

            Rob

          • JimH

            Well Rob, your the one who came up with the goo arguement.
            Not me. I just brought it to the logical conclusion.
            I understand that the Oooy Goooy concept is a radical concept, but you’re the one who opened that door.

          • Robert Smith

            From JimH: “I understand that the Oooy Goooy concept is a radical concept, ”

            No it isn’t. It’s reality. What is there slips through the fingers onto the floor.

            And you consider that to be a “human being?” Really?

            Rob

          • JimH

            Hi Goo Boy, Just because you say an embryo is just Oooy Gooy, doesn’t make it so. It has human DNA, It’s living and growing.
            It is a growing living human, NOT just goo.
            PROVE IT’S NOT A BABY AND PROVE IT’S JUST GOO.
            So far you haven’t.
            The only thing you have shown so far is your LACK of morals.
            Not just MY morals, but ANY morals.
            Just when did you have that goo running through your fingers onto the floor? You are one sick goo boy.

          • Robert Smith

            Here goes JimH again…

            From JimH: “It has human DNA,”

            So does my hair and what comes out of my butt. Top to botton it has “human DNA.” But I leave that hair DNA on the barbershop floor and flush the other end. Your “DNA” alleged argument just doesn’t mean anything.

            Besides, DNA is a plan or roadmap for the PROCESS of what is going on. A process with a beginning (conception), middle (gestation), and an end (birth). If I burn the plans for a house I’m NOT burning a house. BTW, what penalty do you suggest for a teenager with a Playboy spilling all that DNA? Should he get half a life sentence for “murdering” (ROFL) all thos 1/2 “babies?”

            Jim points out: “It’s living and growing.”

            Never denied that. It’s a PROCESS. Again, beginning, middle, and end. It ain’t complete until it gets to the end.

            “It is a growing living human, NOT just goo.”

            Now now, Jim… Early in the process it really is goo that will slip through fingers. Later there are similarities to other animals. For some insight I’d reccomend Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year History of the Human Body: http://www.amazon.com/Your-Inner-Fish-Journey-3-5-Billion-Year/dp/0375424474

            Again from they far right they engage in the fallacy of demanding proof of a negative. Let’s watch: “PROVE IT’S NOT A BABY AND PROVE IT’S JUST GOO.”

            Then he points out that I haven’t. I ain’t gonna either. JimH and others claime it IS something. The burden of proof is on them to prove their claim, not for me to disprove it.

            And now it’s time for the usual personal attack: “The only thing you have shown so far is your LACK of morals.”

            Lack of conforming to YOUR version of “morals” where a woman isn’t free to decide what she can do with her very own body. My opinion about morality is that a woman should NOT be enslaved for 9 months by your beliefs.

            “Not just MY morals, but ANY morals.”

            Wow! ANY morals!!!!! That covers a lot of ground, JimH.

            Let’s deal with one thing that I think is moral. That is that each woman should be able to decide what goes on inside her very own body here in a free America. Do you agree with that morality or not?

            “Just when did you have that goo running through your fingers onto the floor?”

            NEVER. I’m saddened that you just can’t seem to grasp the real image of an early pregnancy when it is figuratively put before you. It’s my fault… I keep forgetting just how literal some right wing zealots can be. BTW, how’s that canabal ritual ritual for christians going? I don’t consider eating the flesh and drinking the blood to be “moral.”

            “You are one sick goo boy.”

            Really? I’m not the one who wears an execution device around my neck.

            Rob

          • JimH

            Rob, YES,DNA is the plan, It is a PART of the LIVING, GROWING tissue that determines it is human, not anything else. (and, yes if you are going to claim my statement is untrue,it is up to you to disprove it and you CAN’T)
            Go back to Robert Smith, Jan 26 1:28pm.”Oooy gooy, it just ran through my fingers”. Your the one who said it.
            Don’t shoot the messenger, but a moral person doesn’t adhmently support the killing of unborn babies.
            “A woman should be able to decide what goes on inside her own body”.
            Not when it is going to kill the other body growing inside of it.
            Who stands up for that person’s rights? Not you. Yes it is a person, just a very small one.
            Have you appologized to YOUR Mother yet for enslaving her for nine months? Don’t answer none of my business.
            I’m sorry you can’t grasp that even though it is still inside the mother it still is an individual person and she hasn’t got the right to kill that person, because the location of that person my be inconvenient to her.
            If trying to protect inocent lives makes me a zealot, so be it. I will proudly be a zealot.
            Yes Rob. I recieved Holy Communion just this morning. If you believe recieving a Holy Sacrament isn’t moral, I can see how you would think killing unborn babies would be.
            I just wear a watch and wedding ring, no other jewlery. The ones who wear an “execution device” around their neck,wear it to honor the personal sacrifice the Son of God made for us.
            He died on a cross to save all of our souls. It my be a hard concept for a souless gooboy to understand. Sacrificing ones life for the good of others may be a dificult concept for some who think being inconvenienced for nine monthes is intolerable. She would rather kill than spend nine months to protect a life. How selfish is that.
            Ridiculing many peoples religion doesn’t make abortion moral. It just shows your mean spirited true colors.
            Morality and the truth aren’t always what you want them to be or just an oppinion. They are a constant.(like it or not)

          • Robert Smith

            Jim says about DNA: It is a PART of the LIVING, GROWING tissue that determines it is human, not anything else. (and, yes if you are going to claim my statement is untrue,it is up to you to disprove it and you CAN’T)”

            Is PART OF, not necessarily a “human being.” As mentioned earlier, I leave lots of DNA on the barber ship floor and nobody comes to arrest me.

            Conclusion: DNA itself is NOT a “human being.”

            BTW you didn’t address the issue of spilling seed under the covers by a teenager. Are you hoping that will go away because all that DNA (millions and millions of them) are simply counter to your (he he he) “argument.”

            Well, now we know one thing a human being isn’t. It ain’t DNA.

            I posted on Jan 26 1:28pm.”Oooy gooy, it just ran through my fingers””

            Yup, I sure did.

            Jim posts: “Don’t shoot the messenger, but a moral person doesn’t adhmently support the killing of unborn babies.”

            Well, that’s good because I don’t adhemently support killing babies either. MOF I think they are a good thing and they should be taken care of. Ohhhhhhhhhh, I get it, you are going back to your basic claimi of “it’s a baby.” May I remind you that you aven’t proven that. MOF, you haven’t told me what a human being is yet.

            I posted: “A woman should be able to decide what goes on inside her own body”.

            And let’s all watch Jim twitch with his “it’s a baby” mantra: “Not when it is going to kill the other body growing inside of it.”

            Sure she can. Abortion is done all the time. It’s mostly legal in most of America and MOF the world.

            Jim asks: “Who stands up for that person’s rights? Not you. Yes it is a person, just a very small one.”

            I’ve covered this twice, Jim. First is that if I were speaking as the unborn I’d opt for abortion ASAP so I could get to that there christian heaven without the enterance exam called life. I don’t want to take a chance on burning in hell when I can get out right away. Common sense, Jim. Common sense.

            And, here is another side of the same thing: I’ll bet you wouldn’t allow someone to stay in your house without your permission, regardless of the weather outside or their circumstanes. Even if you invited them over for a party and they stayed and stayed and stayed. It appears to me you would get the law on ‘em and if that didn’t work I’ve seen plenty of attitude around here that would allow you to shoot them. I’ll bet you would shoot to make the very very dead too. BTW, as the body lays there with all that DNA is it still a “human being?” All the stuff that was there is still there. It’s still growing. Don’t believe the growing part? Talk to an EMT about what they find after a body has been dead for a week. It’s very much growing.

            “Have you appologized to YOUR Mother yet for enslaving her for nine months?”

            Nope. She wasn’t “enslaved.” Se made it very clear to me over the years that I was planned for and wanted as were my other siblings. As the oldest I remember their joy that was contageous once I realize that I wasn’t being replaced or any other way a kid’s head can go sieways for a period of time. They were very patient in explaining just how good everything was. They were right. I was part of that baby boom thing where having babies was the in thing.

            “Don’t answer none of my business.”

            Then why did you bring my mother up? You remind me of one of those kids who when were playing cowboys and indians would somehow come up with some bogus magical “explination” for never being harmed. The one that always used to be most irritating was a three quarter spin one way and then back saying something like “The wind current caused the bullet to go around me.” Bogus then, bogus now. You brougt it up as a way to demean, diminish, and abuse this poster on this forum. You got caught. If you don’t want something brought up and expanded upon then don’t bring things up.

            More of the “it’s a baby” mantra! Well, I’m actually not that surprised. Maybe Jim figures that if he tells the big lie often enough it might be true. Jim bleats: “I’m sorry you can’t grasp that even though it is still inside the mother it still is an individual person”

            (extensive post cut down)

          • JimH

            Yes Rob, DNA is a PART of what you are killing, not the whole thing. What part of that are you having trouble with?
            You can ridicule my religion all you like. It dosn’t prove you right.
            I will stay on the point of it is human life because it is. Your denial doesn’t change that.
            Freedom is a wonderful thing only when it doesn’t infringe on anothers rights, like the baby’s that is being killed. Why can’t you realize that?
            For something you don’t believe in religion sure bugs you. How come?
            Are you sure you want to go with the hypo? I think a nice electric chair would give a nice retro look.
            Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.

          • Robert Smith

            Wow! I though much had been covered but the zealot wants to continue.

            From the zealot: “DNA is a PART of what you are killing, not the whole thing.”

            Well… What is the “whole” thing? I’ve been trying to get you to tell me what it is that is so important to you. As before, the DNA is part of it. My barber isn’t arrested when he cuts DNA pieces off, and I’m sure Norton (“The Honnymooners”) isn’t thinking about DNA when he is dealing with what else comes out. So, it’s clear that when a car is wrecked that a tire may be damaged, but a tire isn’t a “car.”

            The zealot asks: “What part of that are you having trouble with?”

            The part where you claim a PART of something IS something. I’ll agree that DNA is part of the flesh of a human being, but is the flesh what a human being is? You really have’t enlightened us, zealot.

            Hey, I have an idea! There is that old Jeremiah 1:5 stuff. Remember, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born…:

            Are we to conclude that a “human being” has absolutely NOTHING to do with what is inside the woman? Sheesh that christian stuff sure looks complicated. Maybe going after what’s inside the woman doesn’t matter? After all, ain’t it gonna go to heaven if it’s not inside her? If that’s the case why let anyone actually be born? All those tickets punched for heaven without the enterance exam of “life.” Looks pretty cool to me.

            Here goes zealot again: “You can ridicule my religion all you like.”

            Thank you. I think I have just the right amount. It shows just how silly it is to try to control another with it.

            BTW, I never bought into the talking snake either. Fig leaves???? Come on, for many the human body is the most beautiful thing that can be imagined. Well, there are some (I’m an excellent example) who should continue doing their part to beautify Amerrica and remain covered.

            “It dosn’t prove you right.”

            I don’t have to prove I’m right. It is YOU who is advocating taking a precious freedom away from women. Your religion is as poor an excuse for taking freedom away from women as it would be for a muslum. Religion is NO excuse to enslave another.

            Here goes zealot agaian: “I will stay on the point of it is human life because it is”

            You haven’t told us what it is yet. You repeating ourself isn’t going to make anything so. However do continue. I take some delight in showing just how shallow the right wing anti-abortion “arguments” are. Thank you for so many fine examples. “It’s a baby”… Good one Jim. I’m going to start calling my car a space ship. Will that make it a space ship? Come on zealot, you seem to be an expert in wishing things to be as you want them to be. Will it happen?

            Ohhhhhhh, now the big gun from zealot: “Your denial doesn’t change that.”

            I’m not denying anything. I’m asking YOU to prove YOUR claim. But the first order of business sohuld be for you to define it. Thus far we have agreed that DNA is not the whole but a part and that DNA can be removed and destroyed without penalty or even any moral concerns. Remember, the hair and ummm, that other thing where lots of DNA goes away from the body. Oh yes and you still haven’t gotten into that there teenager and the DNA he spills. Oh my, so many details.

            But if you are advocating taking freedom away from anyone you better have a darn good reason. And defining things is a part of reason. You really don’t appear to have much reason, do you zealot?

            Here goes zealot again: “Freedom is a wonderful thing only when it doesn’t infringe on anothers rights, like the baby’s that is being killed. Why can’t you realize that?”

            Because it ain’t necessarily a “baby.” You haven’t even told us what a human being is so how can we address the issue of a “baby?”

            And now zealot goes for the heymaker… Let’s watch: “For something you don’t believe in religion sure bugs you.”

            Oh, felt the breeze but zealot didn’t connect. It’s YOUR religion that YOU are using to deny women the freedom of choice. That is why YOUR religion and the silliness of it is being discussed.

            I have my own religion. In fact I haven’t brought my religion into this at all. That’s my private issue and nobody’s business but those who I choose to share it with. I’m under no obligation to recruit anyone and I don’t care that others have different religions. So, now that you know that I have a religion the next time you claim I don’t it will be a lie. BTW, you may point out that I’m in no way participating in yours. The brutal christian god you seem to wear on your sleve… [shivvers not from fear but disgust]

            Zealot asks the question: “How come?”

            As explained several times before: You are using (maybe abusing) christanity to take freedom away from America women.

            And now for some fashion discussion from zealot who asks: “Are you sure you want to go with the hypo? I think a nice electric chair would give a nice retro look.”

            Yup, old sparky does have some sentimental value but a hypo has other uses and the chair under the circumstances just ain’t quite right, even for sitting.

            BTW, they found a Tribble (from Star Trek / David Gerrald’s “Trouble with Tribbles”) dead in the street. It had ODed on something. They could tell it was an OD because there in the street lay a furry with a syrenge on top.

            Rob

          • JimH

            Well Rob, Maybe a little hangmans noose for a necklace, it has a certain irony to it.
            When your barber cuts your hair they are just trimming hair.
            The DNA is what says the fetus is a human fetus and not just goo. An abortion kills the whole human fetus, not just trim hair. The human fetus, a very small,but growing human being. It doesn’t need to be full size to be a human being.
            You don’t like religion and feel the need to ridicule it because it supposedly takes freedoms away from women. Out of the 20% of unborn babys that are being killed in the world, half are probably girls. The practice you support takes their whole life away not just a percieved freedom. So much for championing womens rights.
            If you scroll back up you will find religion wasn’t brought into our conversation until YOU brought it up. I was adressing wallmart person when you felt the need to be an advocate for them. Religion wasn’t brought into our conversation until you couldn’t refute anything I stated an used it to try and change the subject again.
            As soon as your car can travel in space you can call it a spaceship. As I call a baby a baby your spaceship is still a car.
            Growing Living flesh with human DNA is human, It has all the ingredience.What more proof do you need. I keep repeating it because in your stubornees you won’t see the proof or the truth. It is also the truth that you haven’t proven what you support killing isn’t human. The human DNA means it isn’t anything else. You haven’t proven that a fetus is only goo. So yes I will persist in what is being killed is a human.
            Your right repeating something over and over(goo) doesn’t make it so. Even when you’re the one doing the unproven repeating.

          • Robert Smith

            The zealot suggests: “Maybe a little hangmans noose for a necklace, it has a certain irony to it.” No, too much bagage from the KKK and other right wing organizations. I don’t wish to affiliate with the criminal hangings of born human beings. BTW, you do admit that blacks are human beings? I realize that Nixon didn’t but have you advanced beyond that? One small step… Now the zealot points out: “When your barber cuts your hair they are just trimming hair. The DNA is what says the fetus is a human fetus and not just goo. It doesn’t make the fetus a “human being.” It controls the PROCESS that is going on. Again you just don’t seem to get it. DNA does NOT define a “human being.” Tell us what is at the end of the process. Come on, you want to protect it. Give us a reason. “An abortion kills the whole human fetus, not just trim hair.” So? It isn’t a “human being” yet. You haven’t told us what a human being is so I’m not going to PRESUME that DNA defines it as you seem to want me to do.”The human fetus, a very small,but growing human being.” There you go… You got the “growing” part right. But IS it a “human being?” I’ll agree that at the END of the process it is born and becomes a human being, maybe. But during the process it ain’t no more a human being than a tire is a car. A link on the assembly line. Or, maybe the owner’s manual that has all the information about the car in the golve compartment. But the plan is NOT the same as the finished product. An owener’s manual can’t carve a corner out like a complete Corvette can. It’s gonna sit in the middle of the track and get run over not matter how compelte the manual is. “It doesn’t need to be full size to be a human being.” Size isn’t the only issue. For part of the procss there aren’t two neurons to rub together let alone entertain a thought. Without a brain, even if it’s named Terry Shivo, it ain’t a “human being.” That is, unless you want to convince me and other thinking Americans that a meat bag or protoplasm is a “human being” without thought. Good luck with that. Zealot says again: “You don’t like religion” We’ve been over this before, zealot. I don’t like YOUR brutal religion where you are using it as an excuse to take freedoms away from women in America. I have my own religion that I like a lot. MOF, I love it. So, please (again) quit claiming that I have no religion. That is an outright lie and I’ve explained it to you before. I don’t discuss my religion because I don’t want anyone to follow it becaus I’m on that path, and I don’t want anyone not to follow it because I’m on that path. It MUST be their decision. My primary desire is not to be an influance. Sadly I’ll bet you just don’t get that. And now zealot tries to tell me how I feel after I’ve already explained it to him. Notwithstanding the disingenuious way he continues to demean and degrade I’ll deal with it: “and feel the need to ridicule it because it supposedly takes freedoms away from women.”Oh, well maybe you were listening. You are using your religion as an excuse to talke away the freedom of women. So it’s fair to point out just how silly it is. You can’t even justify cloths unless you are like me in my personal effort to beautify America by remaining covered. Let’s watch the failed “it’s a baby” argument go round again: “Out of the 20% of unborn babys that are being killed in the world, half are probably girls.”And the other half might have been boys AFTER THE PROCESS IS FINISHED.Then again, Mr. & Mrs. Chaney and Cher might want to discuss the issue of boys and girls with you. Things seem to be a bit flexible these days.And now zealot discussing that which is in a process as if the process is complete. Let’s watch: “The practice you support takes their whole life away not just a percieved freedom.”And if they are aborted they get a ticket punched to that there great brtal christian god’s haven. Seems to me they are getting a pretty good deal. They are so innocent why don’t you accept the fact that they go to heaven and be happy for them? I would if I was believing in the same brutal god you are. Where else do you think those perfectly “innocent” babies go? Your god claims to have known them before they were born so it’s old home week. I’ll bet their harps didn’t even get cold. And zealot tries to tag it: “So much for championing womens rights.”There is absolutely zero doubt about the born being “human beings.” So, I’m betting on the 100% side rather than your catering to an invisible brutal god. There is no doubt about born women. Their wishes should be respected in the abortion issue. Simple. Zealot observed: “If you scroll back up you will find religion wasn’t brought into our conversation until YOU brought it up.”ROFL… Can you honestly say that your version of brutal christanity isn’t a factor in your anti-abortion efforts? It’s real. Since you are using it as the basis of your belief it’s open season on the sillyness of it. BTW, you still haven’t answered the question of how if your brutal god know someone before they were born / concieved then how is a “human being” defined as a meat bag inside a woman?Zealot explains: “I was adressing wallmart person when you felt the need to be an advocate for them. Religion wasn’t brought into our conversation until you couldn’t refute anything I stated an used it to try and change the subject again.”Really? And how is asking you to document something “refuting” it? Ohhhhhhhhh, if you can’t prove it it’s questionable. And a born woman isn’t questioable. Thus the rights of the born trump the religious mumbo jumbo of the unborn. It’s simple. I don’t have to prove that any woman is real. You MUST prove that a fetus, or earlier, is a human being. Can I talk to it or better yet, will it say something? NEVER. You plea for it. When I speak for it it’s to avoid that enterance exam for heaven called life. Zealot observed: “As soon as your car can travel in space you can call it a spaceship”Until that point it is NOT a spaceship. Just as a fetus isn’t a “baby” until it is born. “As I call a baby a baby your spaceship is still a car.”And what you call a “baby” is still in process of becoming… what? You still haven’ toled us what it is you are protecting. Stil you haven’t defined a human being. Sheesh, it should be simple. Why are you avoiding it so? And now zealot porclaims: “Growing Living flesh with human DNA is human, It has all the ingredience.What more proof do you need.”My hair has all the human DNA as everything else. It grows, even from places I don’t want it to grow from, like my ears. I mow it down and no matter what the DNA is it’s gone. Zealot continues: “I keep repeating it because in your stubornees you won’t see the proof or the truth.”I see that you are trying to rely on DNA to prove something to be a “human being.” Yet I throw DNA out all the time and teenagers throw millions of half “human beings” out on nights when they get excited. Yet you comment not on the other DNA but continue to commmit to your bogus point that DNA is a “human being.” Well, in light of how much is thrown away and the inclination of your god to claim he has known folks before they were born / concieved it looks like DNA is NOT the key to being a “human being.” Here goes zealot again: “It is also the truth that you haven’t proven what you support killing isn’t human.”As I’ve explained several times before it is YOUR acertion that it IS a “human being.” First you need to define it and then you need to convince anyone that the rights of what’s inside a woman exceed the rights of the born woman. Again, how will you respond to a guest in your home who wants everything without your permission? Zealot claims: “The human DNA means it isn’t anything else.”It most certainly can, as I’ve explained to you several times before. It is DNA that is directing a PROCESS that ends in birth. Until the process is complete it ain’t what you claim it to be no matter how much you screech the big lie. Excuse me for a moment, I’m going to dump some DNA into
            the toilet. I’m back. A successful effort. Thanks for the break. Zealot claims: “You haven’t proven that a fetus is only goo.”OK, it comes out as a few cells with surrounding mucus, blood, and other products from the system during a spontanious abortion (one instigated by your brutal god but often called a miscarriage). What do you call it? Oh that’s right a “baby.” Well that mess will slide through your fingers just as it will mine so I call it goo. Your mileage can vary. zealot continues: “So yes I will persist in what is being killed is a human.”And I call it goo. In America the social contract (law) has come down on the side that whatever it is will be between each woman and her doctor and it will remain private. That privacy in America is at the root of Roe v. Wade. It was determined as Constitutional. Again zealot continues: “Your right repeating something over and over(goo) doesn’t make it so.”But the physical evidence either running through my fingers or caught in a pad is real. It’s gooy. Maybe sook young can help you see it. She claims to be a nurse. I’m optimistic that she may have seen a pad or two. And hear zealot continues: “Even when you’re the one doing the unproven repeating.”Not “unproven” but easily observable. Thus, it is proven. You can feel, touch, and see the goo as the products of conception anytime you want to take a moment to actually look at what comes out aftr a spontanious abortion, or as is otherwide known as an abortion by your brutal god, or a miscarrage.
            Rob

          • JimH

            Boy Rob, That sure is alot of typing just to say you still just don’t get it.
            Just keep riding your ego around in your pretend little world, where denial works when the truth is to inconvient.
            You and all the murdering mothers you support will have an eternity to figure out where it all went wrong. Oops I forgot you’re in denial about my evil, cruel. brutal religion.
            I hear they have some cute little guillotine necklaces at the mall. All the little gooboys are wearing them.

          • Robert Smith

            Hey zealot, how the heck are you. Sure looks to me like you are finishing up with some name calling and a threat from your invisible brutal god.

            Let’s go!

            Zealot says: “That sure is alot of typing just to say you still just don’t get it.”

            I “get” what you are saying, zealot. I think it’s a poor excuse to use your religion to take freedom away from women.

            Zealot suggests: “Just keep riding your ego around in your pretend little world”

            ROFL zealot. My world isn’t “pretend.” In my world abortion is mostly legal in most of America and women can choose about the issue themselves. That’s not “pretend.” It’s very real.

            Zealot says: “where denial works when the truth is to inconvient.”

            The “truth” is that each woman decides whether or not your brutal, or any other god, is relevant in her reproductive decisions. Welcome to America. Maybe you just don’t understand that.

            And now zealot goes astray: “You and all the murdering mothers”

            We’ve been through this before zealot. Abortion is mostly legal and it’s only “murder” in the context of your religion and your brutal god.

            Zealot continues: “you support will have an eternity to figure out where it all went wrong. Oops I forgot you’re in denial about my evil, cruel. brutal religion.”

            I don’t deny it, zealot. I’m simply leaving it to you and I’m out to make sure only those who want to participate in it will. IOW, I’m between you and you forcing your religion upon another.

            And then zealot just appears to go nuts: “I hear they have some cute little guillotine necklaces at the mall. All the little gooboys are wearing them.”

            Didn’t know you were interested but I’m optimistic that you couold find a little gooboy who is a consenting adult.

            Please let me ask: Is your life so empty you must go forth and bother others? Is your brutal god simply an excuse?

            Rob

          • JimH

            What a rant. I would like to answer your questions, but it’s my experience you won’t even consider the answer. You will just slam your mind shut, like you have all along.
            I am going to call you Bob instead of Rob, so your initials will be more symbolic of what you are spewing. Acorns, goo, teenage boys with porn, ridiculing religion and all the other irrelivant Bob Smith (BS) you have been using.

          • Robert Smith

            Thank you zealot fo yet another fine exsample of right wing “discussion.”

            I encourage folks to review the thread above and draw your own conclusions.

            Is that OK zealot or does the notion of folks drawing their own conclusions worry you? Oops, another question he won’t answer. Oh well.

            I had fun [chuckeling and going for anotehr cup of tea].

            Rob

          • JimH

            It’s been fun. Enjoy your tea.
            I would encourage others to read this thread.(they would get something out of it)
            Hastala-seeya.

    • Karolyn

      Amen!

  • Ghost

    Then why don’t all of the utopians just commit suicide, and save us the head aches? Nah… The Gods may want to be entertained by the dumbdumbs that live here.

    • Robert Smith

      If your heaven is so great why don’t you assign one of yourselves to kill the rest of you. Then he can repent, say a few hail Marries, and join you in your heaven?

      All of your problems would be solved that way too.

      Rob

  • Donna Hammond

    Why would this woman Sophia be so offended by Tim Tebow. Is this woman jealous or mad because Tim’s mother chose to give him life instead of death. I seems this woman is angry about that “ugh”. What a wonderful mother she is for chosing to have him instead of aborting him, even though the doctors told her she should. She knew God had a plan for his life, as he has for allof us. Praise the Lord for mothers like her. Tim Tebow is a handsome young man, a great quarterback and a great example of a baby that was given life instead of death. Prais God for Tim Tebow amd people like him. He isn’t afraid to give God the glory in prayer or any other way. He knows he doesn’t have to be politically correct. He is a good quarterback and doesn’t have to use Super Boal to build his reputation, God bilt it for him. Too bad this woman and that loony Robert cant see the truth. I will pray for them weather they like it or not, because they need it. Some day you will not have that choice, so choole wisely. Chose life.

    • Robert Smith

      Question asked: “Why would this woman Sophia be so offended by Tim Tebow.”

      Because Tim Tebow is apparently advocating taking freedom of choice from American women in a free America because of his religion.

      Certainly those who follow his antics of bending his knee to that there brutal christian god have gone over the top in their efforts to enslave American women.

      Freedom in America is what is being advocated for by those who think him prancing his religion aroudnd advocating that others be enslaved. That is a bad thing.

      Who would have thunk it… Slavery in 2012, but that’s what it is with an unwanted pregnancy.

      Rob

      • libertytrain

        And sophia is advocating her line of thought. No difference.

        • Robert Smith

          Claimed: “And sophia is advocating her line of thought. No difference.”

          Big difference. Sohpia wants to enslave pregnant women to 9 months of slavery if she doesn’t want to carry it.

          I don’t care if a pregnant woman chooses to be remain pregnant or not. That’s called FREEDOM in America.

          I suspect you would understand if you were a true American.

          Rob

          • Angel Wannabe

            robbie aka, sal alinsk-ite___”Radicals must be resilient, adaptable to shifting political circumstances, and sensitive enough to the process of action and reaction to avoid being trapped by their own tactics and forced to travel a road not of their choosing.” p.6

            “An organizer working in and for an open society is in an ideological dilemma to begin with, he does not have a fixed truth — truth to him is relative and changing; everything to him is relative and changing…. To the extent that he is free from the shackles of dogma, he can respond to the realities of the widely different situations….” pp.10-11

            “The means-and-ends moralists, constantly obsessed with the ethics of the means used by the Have-Nots against the Haves, should search themselves as to their real political position. In fact, they are passive — but real — allies of the Haves…. The most unethical of all means is the non-use of any means… The standards of judgment must be rooted in the whys and wherefores of life as it is lived, the world as it is, not our wished-for fantasy of the world as it should be….” pp.25-26

            I could go on and add paragraph after paragraph, you te top student in Sals class__
            I’ll add immorality

          • Robert Smith

            Who is this “sal?”

            Rob

          • Robert Smith
    • http://naver sook young

      Very well said Donna and thank you. As a nurse I hav talked to women about abortion and to this day have talked 10 – 15 women to choose life. I’ll continue to do so, no matter what people like Robert says.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

      P.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Robert Smith

        From sook young: “As a nurse I hav talked to women about abortion and to this day have talked 10 – 15 women to choose life. I’ll continue to do so, no matter what people like Robert says. ”

        Does that mean it’s OK for someone (not me… I don’t want to influence her choice) to let her know about the percieved advantages of an abortion? For example, abortion is far safer for the woman than carrying to term. If she is worried about her health it could be said that she should abort.

        Please note that I am NOT bragging about yammering to women to try to influence their choices.

        On the other hand you seem to be proud of your efforts.

        Rob

  • Donna Hammond

    Sorry I made a few spelling errors, but, hay, haventy we all

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