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Stem Cells Repair Spinal Discs… Permanently!

November 16, 2010 by  

Stem Cells Repair Spinal Discs… Permanently!

While the United States government, scientists and the religious right continue to fight over the moral issues involved in stem cell research, the United Kingdom has already made strides toward medical cures with stem cells.

Back pain resulting from degenerated, damaged or herniated intervertebral discs (IVD) is now completely curable as a result of stem cell research and its scientific application. This news is huge, especially when one considers the sheer statistics related to back pain.

Back pain is the most common reason Americans visit their primary care physician each year. In fact, more than 26 million Americans between the ages of 20 and 64 experience frequent back pain. With this comes millions of dollars per year spent out-of-pocket on pain killers, prescriptions, surgery, chiropractic and acupuncture treatments and massage therapy. It also accounts for a sizeable portion of the 50 billion annual lost workdays and $3 billion in lost wages.

While most back pain treatments like pills, physical therapies and surgeries try to address the symptoms of pain, inflammation and stiffness, they do nothing to correct the underlying problems that cause the issues in the first place. While it is true that surgery is thought to correct the problem (e.g., herniated disc), the truth is that 80 percent of all back surgeries are unnecessary and do not help the patient in the long run. What’s more, the trauma and scar tissue associated with the surgery often leaves the patient in worse condition than the original back pain.

Is back surgery a waste of time? Well, I used to think that in most cases it was a scam. Now, however, I have changed my mind. While I am still not in favor of surgery per se, I have come to know of a minor surgical procedure developed in the United Kingdom that not only helps the symptoms of back pain associated with disc injury or degeneration, but can actually cure it.

In 2006, Dr. Stephen Richardson of the University of Manchester’s Division of Regenerative Medicine uncovered a method whereby stem cells are used to completely regenerate damaged intervertebral discs (IVD) with no rejection from the patient’s body. In collaboration with Arthro Kinetics — a German biotech company — and the well-respected international Spinal Foundation, Richardson developed the procedure of using cell-based tissue to regenerate IVD at the damage site.

With it he is able to combine the patient’s own mesenchymal stem cells (MSC) with a “naturally occurring collagen gel” that can then be surgically implanted into the affected area. The invasion is minimal and therefore appealing to my sense of holism, as it reduces the chances of post-surgical trauma and side effects.

Richardson found that he was unable to utilize IVD cells to regenerate themselves. However, after years of research, he found that MSCs, which are located in the bone marrow, have the ability to grow into a range of different cell types, including muscle, fat, bone and cartilage. He developed the ability to combine the MSCs with a collagen gel and to then implant the combination into the damaged IVD tissue. Richardson and his team were soon able to see the damaged discs regenerate themselves.

In Richardson’s own words:

“The gel used, produced by Arthro Kinetics, is based on a collagen that is a component of many tissues within the body, a totally natural product that is similar to the gel already used clinically for the treatment of articular cartilage defects. The ability to re-implant this within the body with an arthroscopic procedure — similar to an endoscopy, in which a camera is inserted through a narrow tube into the body — means that there is only a very small scar on the back and the patient could hopefully return home on the same day or the day after the surgery. Once implanted, the differentiated MSCs would produce a new NP [nucleus pulposus] tissue with the same properties as the original and would both treat the underlying cause of the disease and remove the painful symptoms.”

The procedure is finishing clinical trials and will soon be available as a treatment in the UK. The result of such a successful and minimally invasive approach to traumatic back pain treatment is enormous. Billions of dollars will be saved in lost productivity and workdays, pain suffered, pills taken and useless surgeries.

For those suffering back pain as a result of degenerated or damaged intervertebral discs, utilizing your own stem cells to repair your own body is a blessing you may soon experience.

— Dr. Mark Wiley

References:
ScienceDaily http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/11/061130191403.htm
BBC News http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6196644.stm

Dr. Mark Wiley

is an internationally renowned mind-body health practitioner, author, motivational speaker and teacher. He holds doctorates in both Oriental and alternative medicine, has done research in eight countries and has developed a model of health and wellness grounded in a self-directed, self-cure approach. The Wiley Method provides a revolutionary way of providing recovery and prevention of chronic pain, illness and disease. Grab your FREE COPY of Dr. Mark Wiley's "The 3 Secrets to Optimal Health" HERE.

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  • Dan az

    Is this another politically correct problem that we will never see the light of day? It would be great not to have pain every day of your life and every minute of every day but I can here it now from the libs its just wrong am I right?

    • Walter

      The “relgious right” has never had a problem with the use of a patient’s own mesenchymal stem cells. A Christian does, however despise and reject the the farming of embryonic stem cells.

      • hrwg

        Good reply Walter…there are two types of stem cell research going on. Most people don’t know it, but adult stem cell is approved by the pro-life Christians, but embryonic is not. Also, there is evidence that embryonic stem cells cause tumors. This should be a draw back for everyone not just pro-life Christians. If people would read up on an issue instead of letting the talking heads tell them what to think we would all be in a better position to have a real discussion. This entire article is about progress in adult stem cell research.

        • kenneth

          Amen! I have had a friend who has muscular abnormality where his body will not make distrophine (spelling is wrong), but with injections of adult stem cells taken from his sister’s period they have been able to grow muscle on him where no other procedure would work. It is still in it’s discovery phase but it looks promising. His body is now making it’s own distrophin and so the disease he did have is no longer the problem. Here is a case if we just got out of the road of ourselves we could make life so much better and bring back our economy and our health care services. Our government and all of the special interest groups will find a way to keep this from happening for all of us, and most of the reason will be because of greed.

        • Dr. Mark Wiley

          Thank you, HRWG, for point out the difference in the types of stem cell research that are ongoing. I was remiss to include this in the introduction to this piece. I appreciate readers, like yourself, making helpful contributions to these pieces.

          • Mike In MI

            Come on Dr. Mark W. -
            I’ve stood up for you and Dr,’s of your tribe, but, look, the body has with in itself, regenerative cells that if the person is healthy and able to recoup, any damage and loss can (with proper care) HEAL.
            Now, don’t disappoint me and tell people here that the body needs a bunch of crap squirted in, upon or driven into itself to heal. It just shows a lack of understanding of the great recuperative potential within the human frame.
            You need to study, through whatever resources you have at hand, unusual reviews of tremendous human healings and begin to figure, “That initiative, and ambition in the heart of that individual, is a potential that can be repeated 6 billion times – if needed.” Don’t kid yourself. Anybody in the healing professions is just helping a patient get something and some time together to regenerate and restore his or her own regenerative abilities to the point that they realize their restoration of health – while providing advice about what to do to get there. Any other “health” service – except nutrition, neurology or neuthetics – is a fraud. Why?

            Healing happens in the mind. If not, the person doesn’t want it – just wants an excuse to be invalided. All caregivers gotta’ love ‘em into it. If it can’t be done, they don’t want health. That’s where O’Bomb’R’Care and it’s siblings will aways fail. It puts the onus on the outside of the patient.

            P.S.: This realization makes being a “healer” a lot more rewarding and less stressful. DON’T LET ‘EM PUT IT ON YOU. The “Placebo Effect” is the greatest reality God ever established. AND, it’s the same, in the other direction, as the “Nocebo Effect”. Mark 11: 23-24 – “WHOSOEVER”.

          • Granny Mae

            Dr. Mark Wiley,

            I have been interrested in the stem cell work for quite some time. I am against embrionic stem cell research but I am all for adult stem cell research. From what I havd seen and heard the adult research is showing way more positive results than the other so I’m for just dropping embreonic research and advancing the adult research. Christian values would be satisfied and the research could advance without hinderance !

        • James

          HRWG, I agree completely with you, but the situation with embryonic stem cells is actually worse than you describe. In spite of huge sums of money spent on it, there has yet to be a single successful medical treatment developed from them, while there have been over 50 successful unique treatment techniques from adult stem cells going back at least 8 years. While not all embryonic stem cell treatments resulted in what would be fatal tumor growth, the majority did. The science, were the scientists to apply it, would lead to the unavoidable conclusion that embryonic stem cell treatments are a failure, and that cord stem cells are even more promising than adult stem cells, neither of which destroy human life or suffer from rejection issues. As a Christian, I have no fear of science, only of some scientists with non-scientific agendas.

      • refuse2lose

        So just how far will we go in order to make our own lives more pleasant? Will we increase the amount of abortions so we have a plentiful supply of cells? Will the government,as one czar has clearly stated,use their RIGHT to take our body parts after we die? Just how far should we push the envelope in order to make life for the living,or as liberals love to say…. life for those who lives hold value,more pleasant?

        • kenneth

          That’s where the misinformation part of this comes into play. The discoveries have not come from fetal stem cells. Most of it has come from adult stem cells, so no babies or parts of babies needs to be used. The infant stem cell research has gone no where. Supporting adult stem cell research will make it a mute point to continue infant stem cell research. Especially when looking at the success rates of one over the other. It’s all about the right communication and stopping the lame stream media and the Dumocrats for continuing the use of infant stem cells.

          • Dr. Mark Wiley

            Kenneth, thank you also for pointing out that the content of this article is based on adult stem cell research… and that it should not be confused with fetal stem cell research. Excellent point of clarification that I was remiss to highlight.

      • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

        Walter,
        You seem to have the same problem that I do regarding this article. Though it spends a great deal of words “selling” the idea that back pain is not a good thing…OK… it completely fails to distinguish between the two types of stem cell research being conducted. No one has a problem with stem cell research. Those individuals and institutions that inherently respect life as the first importance and the quality of life as modifier of that life and, therefore, second in importance, do take exception to research that harvests from the first to satisfy the second. It is reverse thinking to pick the furnishings first and then go find a house.
        When I first read this article, I thought it was written by some liberal organization whose focus was to produce an article that obscured the truth so as to make a point, much as the left wing media types are so skilled at doing. And now, after reading it again, I’m not sure that my assessment was inaccurate. At least there nothing in the article’s omission of all the facts that would suggest the author was committed to conveying the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So, God, please help him.

        • Denniso

          Dan az…you are allied w/ the rightwing that is blocking some stemcell research in this country…the left,who are usually condemned for being politically correct are not,so you’ve got it backwards. Thousands of frozen embryos used in fertility treatments are thrown in the trash every year when the conservatives get their way,as under Bush/Cheny.
          Personally,I’m not all that comforfortable w/ all the technology we use to impregnate women,in a world where overpopulation is a clear and present danger,and millions of babies are orphans and starving as we continue w/ the baby factories.

          • kenneth

            Get your head out of the Democrat sand. There haven’t and still haven’t been any success with embryonic stem cells. It’s all been with adult stem cells, so the stance that the Democrats have been making about using embryonic stem cells is ridiculous. This argument about the use of embryonic stem cells just over shadows the success of the adult stem cells. Try and get your information from some where other then your lame stream media, and maybe you can come up to speed with real reality. If we all could move together with the success with adult stems cells than we could move into the actual use of the proven procedures with adult stem cells. Until those of you who want to stop playing politics with medical procedures, then we will just continue to spend valuable time, money and energy trying to move forward embryonic stem cells instead of moving forward with the success that is already occurring with adult stem cells.

          • Denniso

            So, according to you,it’s only Democratic researchers who want to use stem cells from embryos even though there is no need to use them. If adult stem cells are as good for the research then why would there have ever been a debate in the first place and why did Bush have to wade into the battle and stop any research on ebryonic stem cells using federal money or facilities? Why did no one ever short circuit the fight by stating what you did?

            In other words,I don’t believe what you’re saying and can imagine you have a political agenda.

          • Granny Mae

            Kenneth,

            Isn’t it amazing how so many seemingly intelligent humanbeings can read the same article and come away with a totally different take on what they just read. Sometimes I think it is because they read a word or two and get an idea in their head and seem to proceed with their own idea instead of reading the whole piece and knowing what they are talking about ! From there they will continue their rant forever and get way off the beaten path.
            People this is dealing with ADULT STEM CELLS ONLY ! It seems so far to be the most promising !

        • Dr. Mark Wiley

          Thank you for expressing your opinions here, we welcome them all. I aim to educate and inform people about health issues and solutions. Where topics require more information or background, such as where studies are involved, then I provide the relevant references. At the bottom of this article, you will find the references to the material presented herein. Politics do not drive my writing and so I have no agenda in my positions. Please do read the references, for more information on the research and its findings, should you care to know more.

          • Robert T Quigg

            Thank you please let me know ware to go for this cure ? I cant walk because of disk problems, when I lay down I can move my legs. but upright I dont have power. after dick surgery the scar tish grew and cut me off Please tell me ware I can go to be fixed. thank you

          • Granny Mae

            DR.

            Excellent post. Thanks for the info. God Bless.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Walter,
        I have four pins and screws in my back and if it meant that I could only be cured of this problem by the farming of embryonic stem cells then I will live with the pain the rest of my life by choice!!

        • Granny Mae

          Joe H

          It is not cells from babies it is from adults. Alive adults such as yourself, in fact they may be able to do something with your own cells or those of a close relative ! I pray for a cure for you.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Granny Mae,
            I know but there are so many here getting down on the religeous right, I had to post that!! I do hope though that they may be able to do something for me with my OWN stem cells!!! I just get sick of that stupid dennislo and his inane posts!!!

          • Granny Mae

            Joe H.

            I know the feeling of living with constant pain and disabilities. I do to. I was thinking of asking my doctor if there might be some place I could go for help also. The bones in my feet and ankles are collapsing and there is nothing they can do for me. Sometimes the pain goes on for hours and my leg will just shake like crazy. It comes on in an instant and will go for what seems like forever and then all of a sudden it is gone just as quickly as it came. There is no medication for me so I just have to deal with it. I have found that praying the rosary helps get my mind off the pain and I can deal with it better. Also If I can get interrested in a movie or something that helps. It doesn’t go away but for some reason it becomes tollerable. The biggest problem is that I can’t sleep at times. I may go to sleep but then the pain starts and it wakes me and then I have to get out of bed so I don’t wake my husband. Oh well I will do what I can and leave the rest to the Lord ! I will keep you in my prayers.

    • John H

      It appears this is adult stem cell or gene therapy,as opposed to emdryonic stem cells.Embryonic cells appear rather unstable compared to adult stem cells and don’t appear to have good results.Adult stem cell researh has prodused a number of good result and cure,according to many reports.We Christians welcome such research.However,the killing of anyone to find a cure is quite another issue and seems not even to have possitive results.It’s the killing of people,especially babies,that we oppose.

      • Kenny Manning

        If it is wrong to sacrifice one person’s life to extend another person’s life, you must also be opposed to war.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          then you must be FOR the death penalty, right?

          • Kenny Manning

            The death penalty neither extends or improves anyone’s life, it is strickly for punishment. One problem with the death penalty is the amount of people executed that were innocent. Incarcerating an innocent person for life is bad enough of a mistake, but killing them is far worse.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Kenny,
            It neither extends or improves ones life?? Tell that th to cops that were kill a few months ago by a guy that SHOULD have gotten the death penalty!! Tell that to a woman that has been raped and the guy tells her he WILL be back. Take a look at what HER life is like after the guy gets out!!! Quit spreading the manure!!

          • Kenny Manning

            Sorry Joe, a little misunderstanding here. By doing away with the death penalty, I didn’t mean let the perp out on the street. All death sentences should be enforced as life in prison with NO parole. How would you feel as a juror if you convicted an innocent person and they were executed? I’m all for taking dangerous people out of society with life in prison with NO parole. Killing a person is against the 10 commandments.

  • Jean

    Your headline and lead paragraph are deceptive and misleading. The “religious Right” is NOT against ALL stem cell research or medical applications thereof. They are only against EMBRYONIC stem cell research because destroying an embryo to get “embryonic stem cells” destroys another developing human. This is basically one or more human beings “playing God” with the life of the embryo. To date, only adult stem cell treatments have been completely successful. Embryonic stem cell treatments are fraught with disasterous failures and tumor growth.

    There are close to eighty – that’s right, 80! – successful treatments using ADULT stem cells that DON’T destroy the life of the donor. The religious Right only supports ADULT stem cell research &/or living donor research. That’s the only truly ethical approach. All others compromise or destroy the life of the donor.

    • Anthony

      Good call…

    • Dean

      From the information I have, adult stem cells are MORE viable for stem cell research, but we have an uncomprimising corporate pharmaceutical fascism that insists on abortive and brutal techniques to do what we could be doing in a much more gentle and kind way. The harvesting of parts from fetuses is barbaric and will not lead society to a good outcome.

    • JW-Texas

      Good call was thinking the same thing when i reading. The left thinks we are stupid and we do not know the difference. Sounds like via for Government funding. He never did say what type of stem cells.

      • Granny Mae

        OY VEY !

    • Barbara

      Please note they used the patients own stem cells. There is no organ transplant rejection.

    • Carol

      You are so right but all of us were put on earth to help one another or what is the sense of life if we as humans can’t help other humans who need help.

      Remember he gave his life so we could live and we are of him and we are to give of ourselves to save mankind as he did that is our directive.

      The reason why the USA won’t do what we are supposed to do is the bottom line for all doctors and medical institutions they make a lot of money not really helping people but keeping them from walking as long as they can.

      • kenneth

        I think there is some truth in what you are saying,or it might be that many doctors are just working their asses off because there isn’t any time for them to do anything else. It’s the government and the universities who direct money, time and resources toward research. How would a hard working family doctor be the blame if the Democrats want to push the tax payer money toward the research and use of embryonic stem cells?

    • Esther French

      Thank you. Thank you for your comment, Jean and all the others who see and stated the truth that there is help and hope with adult stem cells and we don’t have to kill and innocent baby.

    • Dr. Mark Wiley

      Thank you, Jean, for this clarification. I was indeed remiss in making the distinction in my opening paragraph. Your clarification is indeed helpful and appreciated.

  • Anthony

    DAN az, asks a seriously good, and critical question.

    “Will this treatment be banned in the United Staes?”

    If all will remember, for a moment, Ronald Reagan came down with Cancer, while he was President. And, in secret fashion – due to national security – he was flown under cover, over to WEST Germany, for a Cancer procedure BANNED here in the U.S. at the time. HE WAS CURED and lived on, for another 20 years.

    His alzheimers, it is my contention, was brought on by Rumsfeld-developed ASPARTAME added to his jelly beans, by the 5-gallon bucket load. But, that’s just me….

    I, too, have back problems and contend this procedure could be the answer to my pain and my limited mobility. I am middle age now and this is only going to get worse even though I do everything I can to stay off the grid when it comes to nutrition.

    I was in a High School Bus wreck at the age of 14, just as I was getting into fulll-blown puberty and the damage to my spine at the time stopped me from normal growth… later on, in the Military, I grew 5 inches within 5 months and ended up having to buy all new uniforms. No big deal, but you get the extraneous BS surrounding the injury.

    I have always had back issues since and feel this would be a fantastic chance to cure my problems.

    Will this be an option in the U.S. any time soon? One wonders…

    What about it, Dr. Wiley? What hurdles could the FEDS put before this procedure to block this newest find?

    • munday in Texas

      dude there is no ban of adult stem cell research-like the lady said above ony embryonic stem cell acct you have to have a fetus first and in my book thats a human being. When you start messing with that you might as well be back in Nazi Germany and those crazy doctors. Chronic pain sucks, but take heart and never loose hope.

      • Dr. Mabuse

        While I’m in agreement with th premise of your post, I just would like to add that those crazy Nazi doctors you mentioned (let me be a bit more specific here: Lenz, Verschuer amd Mengele) got most of their foundation for Eugenic correction from the Americans. I cite Margaret Sanger and her ilk and later some of them Cold Spring Harbor boys as their primary inspiration.

        • Dean

          Do a research project on operation paperclip.

          • Dr. Mabuse

            Ok, why don’t we start with the scientists that them Dulles boys brought over to Ft. Detrick, MD for biological weaponry research.
            How ’bout some of Rheinhard Gaylen’s Eastern bloc boys that were slid into the OSS/CIA seemlessly. How ’bout the tact/spec help FDR’s grandson and BP got from our Kraut buddies when they overthrew Mossadegh. Want some more?

  • OldSully

    The government could add significant delays to introduction of this treatment if it insists on extensive testing. The reasons for delays could range from the political, economic competition, or actual doubt about the safety of the treatment. Given the recent controversy over genetically altered food, one wonders if the treatment will be given an honest evaluation.

    • Granny Mae

      Very good point !

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Jane

    The words in the last sentence tell it all….’YOUR OWN STEM CELLS’…this is ethical research…I do not object to this, I support it strongly. The use of fetal….read baby’s stem cells is an entirely different matter. To murder one person to save another is never an option…from the research done so far it’s not productive. Jean is right and so are the others who have pointed out that ADULT stem cells…the cells from OUR OWN BODIES is the way to go.

  • OldDoc

    Why mislead? Was it intentional for you to leave out the fact that these were adult stem cells? Why would you blame the Christian Right their only complaint is the taking of human life from unborn children! Adult stem cells have had many successes but the Amoral Left continues to desire the Embryonic stem cells and the Abortion of the innocent with no success in curing anything!

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear OldDoc,
      Your reaction is knee-jerk. I suggest you re-read Dr. Wiley’s article. He specifically stated: “With it he is able to combine the patient’s own mesenchymal stem cells (MSC) with a “naturally occurring collagen gel” that can then be surgically implanted into the affected area,” and “For those suffering back pain as a result of degenerated or damaged intervertebral discs, utilizing your own stem cells to repair your own body is a blessing you may soon experience.”

      No mention whatever was made of the use of embryonic stem cells.
      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • UncleOtto

        It was your introduction not to mention the word “adult” and include the “religious right” caused the confusion.

      • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

        Bob,
        Yes, you are correct. He did say that the cells were from the patient, an adult. I think the objections here are due to the good doctor’s remark, implying that the “Religious Right” has a problem with adult stem cell therapy. That is completely false. And it is this falsehood about which most of these good folks are complaining.
        Thanks!

      • Granny Mae

        Hey Bob,

        I am lmao! There are some out there that will never get it even if you draw them pictures ! They remind me of my son that is dyslexic ! All the explaining in the world will go to waste till finally something clicks and then they got it. BUT, don’t hold your breath cause that may not take effect for several days from now !

  • FreedomFighter

    Results for such suffering should be tempered in a fair light, a gain based on negative act will always be tainted. Ethics aside though we better repeal OBAMA CARE or we will never see anything the death panels dont approve.

    Some heartless overpaid demonspawn picked for being able to without compassion decide and then watch millions die whom could have been saved – except we were cost cutting this year.

    OBAMACARE-Well my friend your 68 and in unbearable pain and this back stuff works and will cure you…but ObamaCare has said no…please take the red pill, it will end the pain. Just think your suffering will enable us to put 13-20 million illegal aliens into the healthcare system for free to them.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Kenny Manning

      I find it very interesting that both of the countries involved in this new treatment, Great Britian and Germany, both have socialized medicine.

    • Granny Mae

      Excellant point made ! Does make you wonder just what is ahead for us elderly !

  • Maranatha! Mark

    Dr. Wiley, I do believe your Progressive/Liberal slip is showing, as a result of reading you article above. As so many above have caught and mentioned, only ADULT stem cells have been used secessfully to formulate treatment to date, including the treatment talked about in your article above. Embryonic stem cells have NEVER been successful in producing any treatment, that didn’t result in some sort of cancer or tumor growth. Again as mentioned earlier, we who are followers of Yeshua Hammashiach (Jesus) do NOT oppose research or treatments that come from adult stem cells, as no one has to die to obtain these adult stem cells, unlike embryonic stem cells. Why would you purposefully try to mislead your reading audience?! It is articles like this one that makes me reconsider my subscription to the Newsletter/Blog. It is typical of the elitist progressive mindset to treat everyone like they are small children in their comprehension and understanding, and try to mislead and lie about real events in order to lead the unwashed masses to the conclusion you desire!

    Shame on you Dr. Wiley for your veiled attempt to deceive your readers into supporting the barbaric use of embryonic stem cells, when you know that only adult stem cell research has produced any real treatments! If you ask me, one of the unwashed low-brow folks that read this Newsletter (Personal Liberty Digest), it is stupid to keep throwing research dollars down the embryonic stem cell research hole, when it has never produced any real treatment or applical results! How many more ‘cures’/treatments would we have now, if all that money wasted on embryonic stem cell research had been pour into adult stem cell research!?!

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Maranatha! Mark,
      You see demons where none exist. Dr. Wiley specifically noted that the stem cells were from the patient’s own marrow. I suggest you re-read the article after removing your biased lenses.
      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Daniel

        Bob,
        If Dr. Wiley isn’t biased, then why did he throw in that first paragraph? The debate over embryonic stem cells has nothing to do with adult stem cells. That first paragraph is unnecessary, biased, and misleading. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual story.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear Daniel,
          Dr. Wiley may or may not support the use of embryonic stem cells. We have not discussed the issue, and I would not presume to speak for him. However, this article specifically describes the use of a patient’s own stem cells and that is what is important to the discussion.
          All the best,
          Bob

          • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

            Bob,
            Though this article does, in fact, specifically state that adult stem cells were used in the treatment, it also specifically states that the Religious Right has a problem with that. And that is a complete prevarication, a falsehood, a non-truth, posted here as if it were true. To some, that might be considered lying.
            I think the readers of this blog take exception to lying. It is more of what one would find in a liberal, left leaning blog. Here, it takes on the character of a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” to do so.
            Thanks!

          • Dr. Mark Wiley

            Thank you, Bob, for clarifying this point. Indeed a linguistic mis-step in the opening paragraph seems to have triggered in people a negative reaction to an otherwise very positive article. Indeed, the stem cells in question are from and adult… and specifically, the adult who is being treated.

          • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

            Dr. Mark,
            I respect and appreciate that you reflect on the comments made here in response to your article. Your replies, however, for the most part address that you were “remiss” in failing to point out the differences in the two types of research. Indeed, you were.

            But moreover, you have not adequately addressed the completely false statement which you made, as if it were factually true, regarding the “Religious Right” objecting to stem cell research. And if you have indeed addressed it, it is clearly unclear that you did. This is the only objection that has been repeated here in this forum, yet you seem to be addressing other concerns of incompleteness in the article, while ignoring the factually untrue statements that you put forth as truth. Grossly misleading at best, suggesting that, perhaps, you are grossly uninformed.

            But thank you for caring enough to not flatly ignore so many here who have taken exception to your false statements, presented as if they were factually true.

            Peace

        • Granny Mae

          What in the world is all this nit picking about? Is there not still a on going debate about the use of stem cells? There sure is just read all these posts ! I have read and reread this article and I just don’t see anywhere there is talk about using embryonic stem cells and still all these posts are filled with acusing the good Doctor of doing just that ! I can there is a great lack of reading comprehention here ! Dang it all people—screw your heads on straight for a change !

          • libertytrain

            Granny Mae – thank you for your good common sense and ability to read – I’m as lost as you with what people think they read and their inability to let go of the words they twisted. Amen to you sister!

    • Granny Mae

      Maranatha! Mark

      For crying out loud GET A GRIP ! Is your brain so twisted that this is all you brought away from what you think you read ? What a nut case !

  • Ain’t Gona Happen

    This is great news for the airline industry as folks wanting to take advantage will have to fly to Europe. The AMA will not allow this hit to their profit line. They will use the FDA, as usual, to block the procedure on safety grounds.

  • Dean

    Once again, another example of the medical profession mischaracterizing the stem cell research debate. Dr. Wiley would do well to “get it right”. It is far and above more advantagious to use adult stem cells rather than harvesting “parts embrios”.

    • Granny Mae

      another idiot !

  • Carol

    To think that our Medical people simply don’t care to help because there bottom line wouldn’t be as green that is the whole reason for not doing what they are supposed to do.

    • Granny Mae

      This one is no surprise !

  • DB

    The references you state are four years old. Are there links available to the results of these initial trials or more current trials that have taken place?

  • marie

    Using the patients own stem cell is more productive on every level. The problem is that the Abortionist Industry wants to proceed with fetal stem cells as they are set up to make millions using stem cells this way. On the other hand not so much using the patients own stem cells. So the ghouls are holding things up until they are enabled to go ahead on fetus stem cells. Ghastly people !!!

    • Kenny Manning

      If it is unethical to take a person’s life to extend the life of others, you must also be opposed to war.

      • Granny Mae

        Pete and repete !

  • Jayd

    There is no “healthcare” in the U.S., there is only “sickcare”! The American Medical Profession, is not really interested in anything but
    keeping people at the table, placing their bets and not curing anything. They only worship at the alter of profits! Whenever one wants to understand what is happening or not happening, all one needs to do is “follow the money” There is a whole bunch of it comming from George Soros, David Rockefeller, and the whole “New World Order” and “eugenics & population control crowd”. It has nothing to do with “The Religious Right” it has everything to do with a minority of eletists and their agenda to depopulate the world. I don’t see how abortion doctors can even look themselves in the mirror after even one day of destroying viable human life. Why do you think that a minority of less than 2% homosexuals are getting such a foothold in our institutions? They are funded and encouraged by the derilicts that are trying to destroy this society so that they can usher in their “New World Order” Embyonic stem cell research is part of that progrsam to devalue life.

  • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

    A letter sent to the author:

    Dr. Wiley,
    Your article make s a better resume for a used car salesman than it does for a journalist committed to the truth, and it surely and utterly fails as an example of a scientist, clearly, completely and accurately disseminating the truth. In fact, it functions quite the opposite.

    The only problem that anyone has ever registered regarding stem cell research is the use of cells taken from babies, killed in an attempt to rid the mother of her child. That’s the only problem that anyone with a healthy set of ethical standards might have. Such individuals and institutions feel that life is of the greatest importance and that the quality of that life is, to a straight forward and logical thinker, a corollary, aspect of life. However, those devoid of such standards might feel otherwise.

    Your article, as it appeared in Liberty Digest, completely fails to distinguish between the two types of stem cell research being conducted. This can only be an omission through a lack of concern for the accurate portrayal of facts or a deliberate attempt to obscure the truth. Neither is very assuring of the quality and character of someone who claims to be a scientist practicing in the medical arts. And that’s a shame.

    No one has a problem with stem cell research, per se. Those individuals and institutions that inherently respect life as the first importance and the quality of life as a modifier of that life and, therefore, second in importance, do take exception to research that harvests from the first order of importance to satisfy the second. It is reverse thinking to pick the furnishings first and then go find a house. An example of such logic is found in the unforgettable words of the Speaker of the House, the Queen of The Left, “Vote for it and then you can read it to find out what’s in it”. Your article portrays the same reasoning at its premise. Cure the disease, then discover who was killed to make it possible; all the while avoiding any discussion of the morality of using the life of one individual to improve the quality of another. Only the truly Godless could consider that reasonable.

    Thank you for your time
    Tim McFarlane

    “When injustices become law, it is our DUTY to rebel.”
    ~Thomas Jefferson

    • Denniso

      Like I’ve already said elsewhere,the right is willing to dispose of embryos used in fertility treatments rather than use them in research.
      Is that logical? Either don’t implant women w/ artificially created embryos in the first place, or be willing to discuss beneficial uses of the extras that go into the trash can. As a liberal,I don’t think it makes sense to be whipping up babies in the lab at all. Why doesn’t the right have a moral argument w/ that? Because they like babies so much? Because they have to ‘be fruitful and multiply’? They can’t adopt or help other kids who aren’t their own?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        As a liberal, COMMON SENSE wouldn’t make sense to you, dennislobber!!

    • Granny Mae

      Another brain dead idiot ! I have no idea where you got what you seem to have taken away from this article but it sure wasn’t common sense ! How dare you try to insult the Doctor with your childish lack of understanding and common sense ! You cad !

      • Denniso

        Who are you addressing,Granny? I’m responding to some of the stupid comments here,some that have little to do w/ the article but are absurd enough for me to want to try and correct. Understand?

        • Granny Mae

          I’m responding to TIMedWork. He is cracked ! I guess I should be use to it by now !

  • M Bedwell

    The “religious right” has never had a problem with adult stem cell research. It is embryonic stem cell research that kills an embryo that is the problem. And notice it is the patient’s own stem cells that are being used.

    • Denniso

      Do you think it’s OK to trash the embryos from fertility treatments,rather than use them for helpful research? Aren’t they ‘dead’ either way? Trash can or lab dish?

      • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

        Denniso,
        To look at the fine point of the morality of the issue, and that’s what the objection to embryonic stem cell research is: a question of morality, one must define that human life does or does not have inherent value. If it doesn’t have inherent value, in that it is NOT SACRED FOR ITS OWN SAKE, then do with it as you will, “survival of the fittest”, “may the best man win”, “look out for #1!”,etc.

        However, if your definition of life imbues it with a sacred character that is to be RESPECTED FOR ITS OWN SAKE, then using a human life in the form of an embryo to improve/sustain the quality of life in another, just because it is discarded in an invitro lab’s Petri dish, is just as objectionable as using them afterwards, when they have died from an accident, [and here, for the sake of the line of reasoning I’m eliminating any consideration of moral issues] as nutrition. Revolting, I know. Yet the moral issue is the same.

        The qualifiers that make my suggestion so heinous is that the family and loved ones of the deceased would object, and for good cause. They loved that person. No one loved the aborted fetus or the fertilization “extras” and so they have no defenders. They become a commodity. And as long as our society continues to diminish the inherent value of all human life, and continues to reduce it to a mere commodity, respected only for its stature and “quality of life”, we will always have “thinkers” looking for better use for that life when no one loves them any more.
        Please forgive me if my logical premise offended you. That was definitely not my intention.
        May you continue to be loved.

        • Denniso

          Everyone,except psycopaths,agrees that human life has value…the question is when does life begin? Some think that masturbation is evil or a ‘sin’,because life begins partly w/ a sperm cell. Some say it begins w/ a fertilized egg,though many fail to go to full term and produce an actual baby. Many others claim that life doesn’t really begin until a fetus is old enough to be viable and live outside the mother. All of those views still accept that life is inherently valuable…most liberals hold that view and so want the poorest and least powerful people,children and adults,to be able to live a decent life. Somehow, conservatives think that once a baby is born the quality of it’s life is entirely up to the parents and if they fail at providing a good beginning to the kid then it’s just too bad,since ‘we all have choices’. That’s what makes the conservative position on a woman’s choice appear hollow…plenty of concern about forcing a woman to carry a baby she doesn’t want to,for whatever reason,and very little or no concern for the baby after birth…and we have millions of babies in terrible living conditions in this country.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            If the lady(?) doesn’t want the baby, then put it up for adoption!!! There are a great many parents out there willing to love and nurture a child!!! Look at what the beauracracy does, makes it next to impossible to adopt, and easier than hell to be foster parents to MANY children!! There are aquite a few of the foster parents that are devils in disguise!!

          • Denniso

            You want the state to force to carry a baby 9 months to delivery,go through delivery(which has a fatality risk for the mother),and then give the baby away. You probably wouldn’t have an exception for rape or incest either,since you would say rape can be faked.

            You and people like you need to accept that the egg,the fertilized egg,the fetus and the viable are all part of the woman’s body. They belong to her,not you or the state. You can’t force women to remain pregnant if they don’t want to…it’s immoral itself and it doesn’t work anyway. And,talk about state control of a person’s private life…how does the ‘smaller gov’t’ and ‘gov’t out of our lives’ crowd
            justify such force over private actions?

            Maybe we should force men to masturbate into a cup every couple of days and have the state use the sperm to impregnate women,since there is a part of the bible that says masturbation is a sin…like your witch candidate O’Donnell, and others, believe.

          • Denniso

            I obviously meant to say, ‘to force A WOMAN to carry’

          • Granny Mae

            Denniso,

            It takes a live sperm to fertilize a live egg and when that happens then life is beginning. You cannot have life with a dead sperm nor with a dead egg. No matter how hard you try you just can’t get life from either one ! As for a mother in danger from carrying a baby to term. BS ! Her doctor can tell if that is a problem , but as a woman I can tell you it is BS ! I suffered with major heart problems since I was in my early 20′s and I have 5 children. All of them planned for. The best answer to abortion is prevention ahead of time and responsibility ! If at least one partner was to take responsibility and make sure there was no conception there would be no need for abortion. Adoption is the next best alturnative ! Any time there is a real problem with a pregnancy the doctor has always had the ability to take care of his patient. To continue with mass abortions in this country is simply excepted because it releases both partners involved , of responsibility ! A very bad excuse to allow one person the right to commit murder and justify it by saying it is the womans right to choose ! Poor excuse for poor judgment and a lack of responsibility. A few moments of illisit pleasure results in the death of another human being ! How disgusting ! Talk about immoralality ! Then you talk about this life now dead as though it was a nothing ! From the moment of conception it was a life with a soul and should have been in the safest place there is on earth, his mothers body. The body that was designed to protect that life till it could survive in the outside world ! Mass murder of the innocent is unacceptable !. Abortion not only kills the baby but it effects the mother the rest of her life , even when she doesn’t know it and doesn’t expect it ! There are consequenses to abortion that most people have no clue of but they should ! Don’t take my word for it check it out with the right to life people and they will give you information that will surprise you !

          • denniso

            Who mentioned ‘dead’ eggs or ‘dead’ sperm? aren’t they alive before they meet? Shouldn’t you then force people to keep them alive because they can produce a baby?

            You talk about bad judgement…human life is full of bad judgement isn’t it? If you eat 5,000 calories a day and turn into a blimp,isn’t that bad judgement? Do people speed or drive drunk and kill people? Is that bad judgement? Do we withold medical treatment from people who exercise bad judgement and force them to live w/ their actions? No, we usually let people make ammends,or not, and allow them to get on w/ their lives. We don’t force people to live w/ lifelong consequences except in the most serious offences against other born people.

            There is a risk of fatality for the mother w/ every pregnancy,you as a woman should certainly know that. It’s not a high risk,obviously, but it is a measurable risk.

            The bottom line is that it doesn’t work to deny women the choice to control THEIR OWN BODY,and it creates more of a police state w/ the state invading women’s and doctor’s privacy and rights.

          • Granny Mae

            Denniso,

            You said when does life begin and I said when a live sperm meets a live egg life begins ! That was the point. Now what about babies in petree dishes! Christians are not for that. I should say Catholics are not for that. They don’t believe that man should interfere with creation. Creation is the responsibility of a husband and wife through the marriage act. That is how God made it ! The problem with artificial insemination is just what you brought up. What do you do with the remainder of fertile eggs? Being able to handle this is a big moral delema and that is why Catholics feel it is wrong to do. Life is life and although that life may not look like the baby form that we all know, doesn’t mean it isn’t a baby. That baby will go through a lifetime of changes and on the day it dies it will not look like it did the day it was concieved or the day it was born. You can’t lable a baby , a baby just on how it looks. As for poor judgment, like you said, it carries consequences. That is why we must use common sense and make good choices. There are many ways to prevent a pregnancy before it happens so use responsibility and good sense and there will be no need for an abortion. To speak of danger to the life of a mother let me tell you that if you combine all the dangers of life, incest and rape together they amount to only 1 percent of all the abortions done. That is a fact! Now what does that tell you? It tells me that it is a very expensive form of birth control. Then it is easy to place all the responsibility for the future on the female by telling her she has the RIGHT to choose. If she feels pressured and hopeless she will most likely choose abortion and now both parties can give a sigh of relief and they don’t have to concern themselves with taking care of this little life (which should have been thought of before it was concieved) and the couple is free to go on their way and take a chance of doing it all over again and a lot of times they do. Now if the mother is given the sole right to determine whether the baby lives or not, then who is considering the rights of the father? Without him this wouldn’t have happened but no-one is asking him what he wants. Maybe he wants this baby of his and he can’t convince the woman to carry the baby to term! She aborts and he has lost his son or daughter and his parents have lost their grandchild! This was just as much his child as hers and yet he has no say! That is wrong too. When it comes to abortion everybody looses. Like I said else where, there are a lot of side effects to abortion and from what I can see none of them good ! There is a lot less heart ache to prevent this from happening in the first place than to take a chance and end up feeling compeled to take a life so you can fix it !

          • Granny Mae

            Denniso,

            I’ve been around a long time and I can tell you that a woman and her doctor have always had the ability to address any health problems concerning a mother whether it was a bad heart or an abortion ! As a woman I have always had the rights over my body and so has every other woman. It has only been in recent times that man has felt the need to protect irresponsible men by convincing women that they feel the need to get an abortion when an unplanned pregnancy happens. They lay it all on her and then they wash their hands of the whole thing. They convince her that she will be scorned and lost and all alone. She then feels the need to do the unthinkable and has to live with that decission for the rest of her life and trust me she will. Her thoughts will go to that child from then on forever even if the guy never has another thought about it. If he does have thoughts about it he too will carry those thoughts for the rest of his life. There is never any escaping from our memory ! This is not a choice that anyone should have to make ever and it is wrong to use abortion as a form of birth control. Have you ever seen that girl on TV that was aborted by her mother and lived? I can’t remember her name but she is a young woman of about 20 now. After the abortion the nurse found that she was breathing and alive so she rescued her and cared for her and adopted her. She has some problems because of a lack of oxygen at birth but other than that she is a beautiful young woman and she has a beautiful voice. She is a spokes person for the right to life organization. She has quite a tail to tell. She was a late term abortion. The mother got close to the end of her term and decided she couldn’t deal with it any longer so she aborted. How much better it would have been if someone had reached out in love to this person and incouraged her to continue to term and given her some help along the way. She would be the proud mother of a beautiful daughter today. Her father would have a beautiful and intelligent daughter today. What a waste ! I don’t expect you to agree with me but this is how it is !

          • GregS

            Well said, Granny Mae! The extreme pressure many women face (from spouses, lovers, friends, etc.) to have an abortion is often brushed off by the pro-aborts as being part of her “choice.” The woman is truly the second victim of every abortion.

  • Michael Todd

    Folks,
    While it is true that Dr Wiley’s introduction was not clear regarding his position on embryonic stem cells and his feelings toward biblical Christianity it is time to refrain from further speculations and ask Dr Wiley.
    Dr Wiley,
    I notice that you have not unequivocally rejected the use of embryonic stem cells. Please state your position now, sir. Further silence may rightfully be construed as an evasion. Thank you.
    Michael Todd
    Manchaca, Tx

    • Dr. Mark Wiley

      Ladies and Gentlemen,
      I reject the destruction of life for the sake of scientific research. This includes embryonic stem cell research. However, I see no harm in using adult stem cells for the advancement of ones wellness, especially if those stem cells come from the adult patient being treated. This is, indeed, the message of the article.

      My apologies for the misunderstanding created in the opening of this article by not specifying what type of stem cell research is being debated or supported by government and religious movements in the US. My goal was merely to state that despite on-going debates, researchers in the UK have used adult stem cells to cure chronic back pain. And that, I think, is where our focus needs to remain… on the positive health message of the study.

      • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

        Doctor,
        Few here have objected to the science of your article or your position regarding stem cell research, adult or embryonic. Most have objected to the false accusation against the Religious Right, where you claim in your opening remarks that, as a group, they have an objection to stem cell research in general. This is false. It is untrue and either a complete fabrication or a gross misunderstanding of what you’ve read on the subject. There are few other objections posted in this forum. But many strongly dislike being falsely accused of Neanderthal thinking, knuckle-dragging recalcitrance while blocking the progress of humankind in matters scientific. And your opening statements would suggest that this is your view of the Religious Right, as you refer to them.

        Until you retract that false statement, it would appear that most of the readers here can only understand that you are unwilling to do so or are incapable of seeing the problem.
        Thanks!

        • Dr. Mark Wiley

          Please note: I have never said the religious right is against stem cell research. What I said was they, “… continue to fight over the moral issues involved in stem cell research…” There is a distinction. No such specific claim – as you suggest – has been made.

          • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

            Doctor,
            Again, thank you for your interest. As you say, your article, quoted, states that they “… continue to fight over the moral issues involved in stem cell research…” As you can see, what you said has resulted in a great degree of misunderstanding. The correct understanding, based on your choice of words, is that the religious groups continue to fight over the moral issues of stem cell research, when in fact they don’t. They argue about the morality of using embryos as the source. These are two very different arguments. Some people argue about the best way to earn money. Others argue about the best way to steal it. Again, two very different arguments, yet both are about how to acquire money. In view of the fact that your statement, as made, suggests, according to how it has been understood here, that conservative religious groups “continue to fight over the moral issues involved in stem cell research” when if fact it is not the research at all, to which they object. Perhaps the Long Form Retraction Certificate would be helpful and productive and most of all, clarifying, as even your replies leave uncertainty as to whether the article means to imply that religious groups ‘…continue to fight over the moral issues involved in stem cell research’.
            If, in fact, you wish to be clearly understood, as I believe you would want, you might consider plainly stating, clearly, that you did not mean to suggest that religious groups object to the research, since they don’t, but simply to the use of embryos as the source material for that research.
            Thanks!

          • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

            And Doctor,
            Please don’t misunderstand me. I do not mean to attack you personally. When in school, I studied to be a teacher and one of the courses that I took was Communications. The opening line from the professor was “It is not the responsibility of the listener to understand; it is the responsibility of the speaker to be understood”
            I have always held myself to that standard and perhaps I am unfair in expecting you to do the same.

            My sincerest apologies if I have offended you as that was never my intention. To me the truth is never something to be compromised and left to the wayside, but rather, to be the guide to all that we say. If you recall from your scholastic reading, Jonathan Swift, when writing of the travels of Gulliver, described to a Horse the meaning of a lie. The Horse, of course, could not understand why anyone would use language to impart an idea that was not true, as his understanding of saying anything at all was to say that which was factually accurate. So maybe I’m just being a bit horse-headed here and, again, I sincerely apologize if my insistence on accuracy in how one is understood is a standard, more of my own, than that of others, to which , perhaps unfairly, I have been holding you as well.
            And Thanks!

          • Kenny Manning

            These opinions are a great example of the political discourse in our country today. You write about good medical news and it turns into a mud slinging contest. Every time you try to explain your first paragraph, they just find something else to complain about. Have fun trying to appease the wingnuts.

          • libertytrain

            Kenny – you have a point, at least about this character’s continued attacks with regards to this article.

          • Granny Mae

            Dr. Mark Wiley,
            This guy is totally annal ! I don’t know who he thinks he is speaking for. I can’t believe he thinks he is so intelligent that he can continue to badger you ! If I were you I would tell him to stuff it and get lost. You and Bob have both tried to explain to this jerk what was said and still he continues. He is looking for attention and trying to make others think he is very intelligent. Trouble is the more he spouts off the dummer he gets ! I don’t know where he gets off thinking he knows all about religious beliefs . He is just another nut job so pay him no mind !

        • Granny Mae

          TimedWork,

          Enough already ! For the sake of all the rest of us PLEASE, just shut the hell up ! Your brain is fried !

  • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

    Michael,
    The doctor’s position on stem cell research is his own and, as an American, he is entitled to hold that position. However, the objections most stated here in this forum take issue with Dr. Mark Wiley’s statement that Religious Right has a problem with stem cell research. This is, of course, not true, yet the doctor states it as fact in the opening of his article and it provides the thrust of its poignancy.

    Usually, when a false statement is provided as the impetus to an argument, the position held is typically a wrong-headed one. It does nothing to resolve the matter but, rather, further complicates it by infiltrating untruth where others are seeking truth. When food or medication is adulterated in this way, the product is swiftly removed from the shelves, lest the provider lose all credibility with the customer. Perhaps that would be the best approach here as well.

    The statement was false and therefore a plain, straightforward retraction of the false statement would be what one might expect from anyone that deserved the respect we all would like to be able to give.

    Thanks.

  • Gavin Wall

    I am perplexed as to how so much can be argued about a relatively straight forward article that puts forward an ethical solution to back pain. Whilst I am totally against any use of embryo stem cells or any other immoral use of embryos, I believe this article by Dr Wiley is on the right track. I believe that the use of an individuals own cells in this back rejuvenation procedure is not only ethical it is highly commendable. I for one will be eager to line up when the procedure is available in Australia because at the moment I’m enduring excruciating lower back pain and limited mobility.

  • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

    Gavin,
    Most of the objections here are related to the untruthful statement that the Religious Right had a problem with stem cell research. The truth is, the Religious Right has no objection to stem cell research. No one does. The objections are and have always been to embryonic stem cell research. Not only does the article fail to make this distinction, it falsely charges a group of citizens with hold a position which, in truth, they do not hold. Some call that lying. And that is the objection which is most voiced here.

    You are right. The research is good and on that point, the article is useful. The procedure is beneficial. No one is complaining about any of that. The complaints are rooted in the lie in the opening statements. And if you don’t see the lie, then you are proof just how insidious such lying is, especially when it is put forth by one that most would like to respect.

    On at least four occasions a few weeks ago, the President of the US made speeches in which he appeared to quote from the Preamble To The Constitution of The United States. However, what he said was not a quote, but a misquote. And in that he deceived the people to whom he was speaking. After he was corrected, the first time it happened, he proceeded to deliver the same misquote on repeated occasions. Three more times at least. That is indicative, not of a mistake, but of an intent to deceive through omission, delivering a statement that is taken as fact when, in fact, it is untrue. Such deception works only when the speaker is a trusted individual. Once the lie is exposed, the trust is gone. Which is why no clear thinker takes MSNBC seriously. Chris Matthews’ Leg-tingles not withstanding.

    Without a retraction of the clearly false statement made by Dr. Wiley, it is hard to see him in any different light. Not everything said by the deceiving left is untrue. If it were, no one would listen. The danger arises when the lie gets slipped in with the truth – when the tainted is insidiously woven into the fabric of help, obscuring the destructive. And lying about a group or belief is just that: destructive. Destructive in that it does nothing to forward the goal of the research, but puts at odds those who might be of benefit to the end goal of helping those in need; Much like eating poisoned food or drinking fouled water. You wanted goodness but what you got was sickening.

    It is the lie to which people are objecting here. Not the research.

    Peace

    • Granny Mae

      Your problem is not that there is a lie here it is that you like to see yourself blovieat ! Get a life !

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Go get im’ Granny Mae!!! I like your style!!!

  • pat

    Thanks for the heads up, so I can now make sure I never read another article by a supposively educated man concerning science. I do not think a person with 18 yrs of education FORGOT to mention the difference between embryonic vs stem cell. Please we all have our personal bias and opinions. But, I think if you are going to slam millions of christains you could AT THE VERY LEAST, write a factual article. I am very disappointed that Dr. Livingston would not excercise some editorial standards. My son’s jr. high school newspaper would have higher standards for truthfulness and accuracy.

    • Granny Mae

      OK Pat,

      Put your intelligence where your mouth is and prove the crap you just said !

  • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

    Pat,
    Let us all HOPE that there is some CHANGE here.
    Everyone wants Healthcare, but not when the truth of how it’s paid for is exposed.
    Everyone wants money in the bank, but not all are willing to steal to get it.
    Everyone wants stem cell research. But some don’t want to kill to get it.
    BUT…No one wants to be accused falsely.

    Without a plain and straight forward retraction:

    “I apologize for falsely accusing the Religious Right of objecting to stem cell research, when in fact, they do not”

    nothing but sidestepping and hiding in the shadows is to be seen.

  • Gene B.

    This article is misleading and not altogether accurate. It paints a broad brush – but I suppose it’s to get people to read the article.

    The only opposition to stems cell research is “embryonic” Stems cell research which I agree with.

    The only reason it became a political issues is that venture capitalist, after 20 or so years funding embryonic stem cell research with no results – stop feeding the trough.

    So please get your facts straight.

  • Johnnie Walker

    TimedWork, give it a break and quit splitting hairs. I AM of the Religious Right and have a problem with stem cell research. Embryonic of course. In all of the media I’ve been seeing for years, no one made the distiction as to one type or the other, simply that they were against it. So his opening was completely accurate in a general way. So drop it already and get off his butt.
    Dr Mark…IF there is no laws against adult type of research in this treatment, is there Doctors here in the states doing any? My son could sure make use of it, and would willingly because the ginny pig… LOL.

    • Johnnie Walker

      Er… BECOME said ginny pig…

      • Granny Mae

        Johnnie I think we should make TIMed the guinea Pig. Maybe we could get his mouth fixed !

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Granny Mae,
          Beyond repair!!!

          • Granny Mae

            YEP !

    • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

      Johnnie,
      If you’re son would willingly be the Guinea pig (accurate spelling of the creatures used for research, indigenous to Guinea) of a doctor that didn’t split hairs and make precision and accuracy the highest objective of his science, his probability of success would be about 50/50. In practical medicine, that would not seem very good odds.
      “Truth” is an absolute, so “splitting hairs” when dealing in absolutes is, by definition, not possible. But we all have our standards and are each entitled to them. And that of course would forgive the President of the US for repeatedly eliminating the phrase “by their Creator” from his recitation of the preamble to the Constitution, even after being corrected on the matter. I guess he didn’t want to split hairs either.

      With all due respect, Johnnie, I hope your doctor, bank, or attorney defending you in court, take the time to split hairs. Sometimes truthfulness and accuracy are important; At least to some.
      And Thanks!

  • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

    Gene B.,

    In addition to the facts regarding the motivation of economics in this discussion, which you have clearly explained accurately, you did also mention that this was the only reason that people have objected to this type of research,making it a political issue, if I understood you correctly. I believe that, on moral grounds, some groups do, in fact, object to stem cell research when it involves embryos, for reason of ethics and morality, according to numerous declarations published by these varied groups, just to be accurate. Many of these groups are religious and conservative in nature. The implication made here, was that they also object to all stem cell research, and this of course, is completely false. It was only to the falsehood of the assertion made by the author, that readers here are taking exception, for the most part.

    Most people, regardless what their position is on cell research, will object to being falsely accused and categorized. Ask any one if their ethnicity limits them in any way and you will find objection. This is really no different. When a group is defined, untruthfully, as being an impediment to human progress, it is likely that they will object. It is also accurate to say, I believe, that they are right in so doing since the accusation is a complete fabrication with no truth behind it.

    And thank you again for the economic perspective and facts. As we have seen in so many matters, where morality is waved about in a political setting, economics is often, though not always, at the root of it all, as you so astutely pointed out. But in the end, as B. Franklin pointed out, “Honesty IS the best policy”.

    Thanks!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      you pompous, over-stuffed, wind-bag, give it a break!!! your self importance is starting to be borish!!

  • PJMan

    Everything that I have read about fetal cell research has been very poor, with tumors and deformities, but with adult stem and cord blood cells, that is where all the breakthroughs have come from, as for the disguarded fetal cells, if the parents wish for them to be used for research, so be it, waste not, want not, but that’s for the private sector to pay for.

  • Michael Todd

    I work in an electrophysiology lab with numerous MDs. They do not always speak clearly or use perfect English despite their terminal degrees. We are all guilty of this. I do not think we can honestly accuse Dr Wiley of purposefully misrepresenting Christians. He did after all clarify his position.
    Unfortunately,the term “religious right” has become a pejorative. I prefer “conservative Christian” or better yet, “biblical Christian”. Yet, I see no reason to believe that Dr Wiley used it in such a manner.
    Coram Deo
    Michael Todd
    Manchaca, Tx

  • Michael Todd

    To clarify: I do not believe Dr Wiley used “religious right” pejoratively.

    Michael Todd

    • http://stickmewithafork,blogspot,com TIMedWork

      Neither do I, Michael. I do not think that Dr. Wiley was intentionally maligning Christians. However, I just think he assigned them, however inadvertently, to a position that they do not, categorically hold. And it was that inaccuracy in his wording, that so many here saw as well, which caught my attention.

      I am merely claiming that this “inaccuracy” from a doctor is dangerous, even if we can forgive it. Unfortunately, I once had to have corrective surgery for my young son because I forgave an inaccuracy on the part of a physician which, in hindsight, was a very wrong thing for me to have done. I should have insisted on him speaking accurately and precisely, saying only things that were actually true and in a way that the listener could accurately understand, given the words the doctor chose to use. For me, being understood is the responsibility of the speaker. Otherwise, why say anything at all; Especially when no one asked.

      But, no, I do not think him an evil minded liar, just one who, when expressing himself, did a poor job of being understood accurately as to what he actually meant to say and in so doing, offended a number of readers. That’s not evil, just inept.

  • Dansmith1954

    Now that we have read all the comments about
    Adult stem cells vs fetal stem cells, can we get to
    the more important issue.
    Can you be more specific as to when, where, and
    how much the procedure will cost. Will people
    on a limited income be able to afford it.
    Is there “anyone” to contact. I broke my back
    twice, and neck once. I have several damaged
    discs and only 25-45% of L-3 vertebral body height.
    Also, levoscoliosis, epidural lipamotosis and a
    host of other complications. I suffer 24/7 even with
    pain meds for 38 years. The past two years I barely get out of bed due to chronic pain. I’ve gone to physical therapy 3x a week for 12 years. Now it hurts no matter
    what position I lay in bed. I’ve never had surgery due
    to “hypercoagulation” (my blood clots to fast). I’ve had
    24 seperate incidents of clots in my leg and 8 pulmonary
    embolisms. (5 after a filter was inserted).
    Hell, I’m willing to be a “guinea pig” at age 56.
    I was last injured attempting to save two peoples lives. I was awarded the U.S. Silver Lifesaving Medal in 1998. (even though I was not in the Service)
    Maybe “one” of these Doctor’s can save mine, or at least make mine bearable….Dan NY.

    • Denniso

      Good luck w/ your troubles,and maybe there is hope for you and others in this research.

  • Dan az

    Wow and I thought the libs were bad!

  • Joseph G

    I have read reports where doctors have said “you can get all the stem cells you need to conduct research from a liposuction” That being said there is no reason to Kill that little life. Shame on you who think it is ok in the name of science.

    • Denniso

      ‘Kill that little life’?? How do you feel about killing 2 yr olds and innocent women and old people in war? We never hear that the rightwing has any problem at all w/ already born babies,old men,little girls and pregnant women,being slaughtered as collateral damage in wars like the unnecessary and illegal one in Iraq.
      We also never hear the rightwing zealots trying to get the State to force women to remain pregnant against their will,being concerned about the millions of babies and kids living in pathetic conditions here in this country…living in homes in poverty and despair where the only way out is often crime that then locks them into a deadend path…prison,death.
      Why doesn’t the rightwing show their concern for the already born who need help to be able to live a full and rewarding life,here in the richest,most christian, country in the world?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        No dennislobber YOU are the one that doesn’t value the lives of older children as you don’t support the death penalty for murderers!! They get out after some lilly livered judge gives them shock parole just to kill more people, kids included!!! At least with an enforced death penalty they never Re-offend!!! If you believe so strongly in not ever making a woman go through a delivery, then why don’t you cut off your little tool, then you never will. I’m sure it won’t be a big loss!!!

      • Granny Mae

        Denniso,

        If abortion would cure all those things you talk about it would all be cured by now because Abortion has been with us for many years now, but it hasn’t has it? Don’t even talk to me about drug users because I have been up close and personal with several of them. It has nothing to do with their having had a baby. Quit making excuses for every person on earth that can’t get it together and shoulder responsibility for anything. Your out look on this whole thing just isn’t holding water.

        • GregS

          Excellent point, Granny Mae! Poverty has NEVER been addressed by abortion, and it NEVER will be. There is more poverty today than there was before Roe v Wade, when abortion was legalized in this country. All the issues that the pro-aborts said would get resolved back in 1973, only got worse.

          • Denniso

            Who in hell said that poverty would be addressed by choice? I’m saying that the supposedly concerned rightwing,like you non thinkers,never seem to show concern for babies already born,and babies who have grown up in terrible conditions,and babies who are killed in unnecessary wars,like your grand Iraq adventure where a couple hundred thousand innocents have been killed and we’re not done yet. Try to think about what I post before you begin your rants and personal attacks. You would appear a bit more intelligent to all here.

          • GregS

            Denniso says:

            Who in hell said that poverty would be addressed by choice?

            Denniso, Planned Parenthood has been making this claim since the 70′s. BTW, Denniso, why are you so afraid of using the word “abortion?” HMMM???

            Denniso says:

            …like you non thinkers,never seem to show concern for babies already born,and babies who have grown up in terrible conditions,and babies who are killed in unnecessary wars,like your grand Iraq adventure where a couple hundred thousand innocents have been killed…

            Denniso, I support organizations like Feed The Children with my hard earned money, which actually saves babies’ lives, rather than killing them. Question is, Denniso, what do YOU do, besides promoting abortion as some sort of “choice?” Furthermore, Denniso, I support Crisis Pregnancy Centers, which help BOTH the mothers and their babies, as well as post-abortive women.

            Denniso says:

            Try to think about what I post before you begin your rants and personal attacks. You would appear a bit more intelligent to all here.

            Talk about “rants and personal attacks!!!” Listed below are a few of your own “rants and personal attacks” on ME, Denniso:

            - “…supposedly concerned rightwing,like you non thinkers,never seem to show concern for babies…”

            - “You would appear a bit more intelligent to all here.”

            - “Sane people with the ability to think only promote…”

            - “God above,help me…let these people think a little.”

            - “You’re BS is archaic and childish…”

            Now, Denniso, let me ask you, WHERE on this page have I attacked you personally??? From your statements quoted above, Denniso, it’s clear that it’s YOU who’s doing all the “personal attack[ing]!” Furthermore, you go off on tangents that have absoulutely NOTHING to do with the topics being discussed. For example, you ranted about my supposed lack of concern for “babies who are killed in unnecessary wars.” Tell me, Denniso, what does this have to do with the content of this article? It’s YOU who needs “to think about what [we] post before you begin your rants and personal attacks” on these forums, and it’s clearly YOUR intellegence that’s in question here.

          • Denniso

            I’d be willing to bet that you vote for people who don’t support helping get mothers and families out of poverty…you probably think like many rightwingers that everyone has equal choices in our country to achieve their potential and so gov’t shouldn’t try to level the playing field.

            Planned Parenthood has never said that a woman’s choice over her own body will eradicate poverty. What they mean is that a poor woman will struggle to feed and clothe too many children so that she can become irrevocably mired,w/ her kids,in dire poverty. If we had a helpful society for mothers and children that kept them out of the depths of poverty,then that argument would be gone. We grudgingly help single mothers or poor families just stay alive so that any additional mouth to feed only drives them deeper into poverty.

            I don’t think all of my ‘personal attacks’ were directed at you,but they don’t sound so terrible to me. When people don’t think through an issue,they are non thinkers. When someone spouts pure nonsense,it’s BS…I think you might look a bit and find some more serious personal attacks on this site.

          • GregS

            Denniso says:

            Planned Parenthood has never said that a woman’s choice over her own body will eradicate poverty.

            A “woman’s choice over her own body” = abortion.

            Abortion = population control.

            According to the Allan Guttmacher Institute, the popular view in the 1960s and 1970s was that slowing down population growth would reduce poverty. This is precisely why Planned Parenthood pushed so vigorously for the legalization of abortion in 1973. It had NOTHING to do with “a woman’s choice over her own body.” That whole “choice” mentality was dreamed up by NARAL in a marketing agency on Madison Avenue in New York, as a marketing tool to get women to buy into abortion as a method of birth control.

            Denniso says:

            What they mean is that a poor woman will struggle to feed and clothe too many children so that she can become irrevocably mired,with her kids,in dire poverty.

            Got adoption? Not Planned Parenthood! Nearly a third of their income comes from providing abortions.

            Denniso says:

            I don’t think all of my ‘personal attacks’ were directed at you…I think you might look a bit and find some more serious personal attacks on this site.

            YOU were accusing ME of “personal attacks” in your previous post, if you recall. You never answered my question: WHERE on this page have I attacked you personally???

            Furthermore, just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn’t make him or her a “non thinker.”

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Granny Mae,
          From his constant pontificating in favor of Abortion, I kinda wonder if he’s being forced to suport a couple of kids he doesn’t want!!! He sure is adamant about it!!!

          • GregS

            Well said, Joe! That certainly appears to be the case.

  • http://stiffroot.blogspot.com/ Stiffroot

    Embryonic stem-cells are thrown in the garbage everyday around the world. They reside in the millions in the umbilical and placenta! Why do the religious nuts have a problem with that?

    • GregS

      Stiffroot, “religious nuts,” as you call them, DON’T have a problem with stem cells taken from cord blood or the placenta. Those are NOT embryonic. As the name implies, embryonic stem cells come from an embryo, NOT from the umbilical cord or placenta.

  • Neophyte

    I do belong to the religious right and I am proud of it. However, my skin is thicker than most. Dr. Wiley misspoke and I forgive him for that. That misspeak created more heat than light and deviated critical analysis away from the heart of the report of this very important discovery. If randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled and peer-reviewed clinical trials, done on a large enough patient population, confirm the efficacy of this procedure or treatment, then there will be no more justification to continue pouring taxpayer money into embryonic stem cell research. The FDA will dutifully to approve it. The Religious Right will be happy but the Elitist Left will fake a smile. And the physicians and their patients will be delighted. End of debate. Really?

  • THINK ABOUT

    I am not sure the negative comments on embryonic stem cell has researched whether these stem cells are beneficial in treatment of many conditons. This will happen and is happening whether in the USA or other countries. This is why many other countries are much ahead of the USA on this research and use of stem cells. One of these days reality will set in and in fact stem cell research and treatment will be future.

  • Jen

    Stem cells can be obtained through the use of the umbilical cord. They do not have to come from embryos. This is just another way that the pro-death groups are trying to promote abortion, and the government is trying to control population growth…

    • GregS

      Well said, Jen!

      • Denniso

        Ummm,sorry kids,but no one ‘promotes abortion’. Sane people w/ the ability to think only promote the very libertarian idea that women own their bodies and that the state has no business invading the most private decision a person can make.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Admit it lame brain, you are pro-death!!!

        • Granny Mae

          Denniso,

          The state does not tell any woman that she has to have an abortion or that she has to carry a child to term. Where are you getting that from ?

          • Denniso

            With all due respect,you seem clueless Granny. If Roe v Wade is ever overturned like the rightwing control freaks want,then indeed the State will have the power to force women to carry a baby to delivery,and a woman’s choice will be outlawed,as it was before Roe. A woman could be raped and the rightwingers would still force her to keep the baby. Incest? Sure make the girl have the baby and then give it up for adoption.

            The rightwing is always crying about too much gov’t power over our lives,then is willing to try to get the gov’t to get involved in a woman’s pregnancy. It’s a fascist mindset,and rightwingers are hypocrites to push for it.

          • Granny Mae

            Denniso,

            There is something you should know about Roe v Wade. The woman involved in that case never had an abortion !!!! She had her baby and now speaks for the pro-life movement ! She claims she was kind of forced into the whole law suite ! IUmagine my surprise when I heard her speak !

          • Granny Mae

            Denniso,

            Another news flash for you ! Women have been getting abortions since before the birth of Christ. No-one can force a woman to carry a baby if she really doesn’t want to. Women have always known how to abort, but a lot of times some women use the pregnancy to try to force a guy to marry her! My aunt had an abortion back in the 20′s a lot of women had what is called a D and C proceedure to abort. If the doctor says she needs one who is going to argue with the doctor ? You have no clue about women except what they want you to believe so don’t try to argue abortions with me. Wise up !

        • GregS

          Ummm, sorry, Denniso, but the unborn child is NOT part of a woman’s body. He/she is a separate human organism with his/her own sex, genome, blood type, etc. Any medical textbook will tell you that! Anyone who denies this does NOT have the ability to think, and is simply trying to promote the abortion mentality.

          • Denniso

            God above,help me…let these people think a little. A fertilized egg grows in a woman’s body,connected to the mother,nourished by the mother,protected or not by the mother,and delivered by the mother. Who’s body does it belong to and who’s baby is it? You’re BS is archaic and childish,that the mother’s body is just a vessel for the baby to be grown in and delivered from. Men have almost no right to have any say at all in a woman’s choice about what is her body and baby. Grow up and get over it…

          • GregS

            Denniso, the unborn child is a complete, living, human organism, beginning at conception. He/she is NOT just a piece of property to be discarded by anyone, regardless of location or ownership. If location or ownership were deciding factors in discarding human life, then that logic could be stretched to include mothers who want to kill their born children in their private homes, because they own them.

          • Denniso

            A baby is not viable outside the mother for months. A woman’s choice is severely restricted once the baby is viable. Until then,the mother’s body is the only reason the baby is alive,so you can’t pretend that the baby is independent of the mother until it can live outside the mother’s body. The actions of the mother,good or not,control the baby’s life entirely. You don’t and the state doesn’t.

            On a practical level,who would you have control the baby inside the mother? The husband? The gov’t? The only rational answer is that the mother has control over the baby,no one else. It has never worked to try and outlaw a woman’s choice about her body and fetus/baby,other than to make criminals of women.

            If you believe so strongly that you have the right to tell a woman what to do w/ her pregnancy,then you should be consistent and demand the right to tell women how to live during that time for the sake of the baby. You should give power to the gov’t to force women to eat correctly,not drink or smoke,and not damage the fetus/baby in any way. If a woman doesn’t do what she should,by your standards,then the gov’t should have the right to forcibly remove the baby if viable or put the woman in custody for the protection of the baby.

            How do you think that would work?

          • GregS

            Denniso says:

            …you can’t pretend that the baby is independent of the mother until it can live outside the mother’s body.

            I NEVER said that the “baby is independent of the mother.” I said that the unborn child is a completely separate living human organism with his/her own genome, sex, blood type, etc. Because of this,the unborn child has the right to life.

            Denniso says:

            It has never worked to try and outlaw a woman’s choice about her body and fetus/baby,other than to make criminals of women.

            Any law that would make abortion illegal would be directed against the abortionist, NOT the woman. I would never favor a law that punish the woman. The woman is the second victim of every abortion.

          • Granny Mae

            Denniso,

            I guess you don’t know that a woman can be prosicuited for doing drugs or anything that injures the baby while she is carrying it ! Yes the government can step in if there are complaints made. My suggestion is like I said prevention before time or else leave it all to God ! Another thing , A woman can be on her way to get an abortion and get in a car wreck with a guy driving wrecklesly and loose the baby and yet the guy can and will be charged with murder for the death of a baby that was on it’s way to the abortion factory ! Now isn’t that sweet ?

  • pat

    My previous comments were directed at Dr. Wiley and the Owner/Editor Mr. Livingston. Neither Dr. Livingston nor Dr. Wiley issued a genuine apology for insulting millions of Christians. The second problem is with Dr. Livingston and his editorial functions. As stated earlier, how could the owner of this newsletter, allow such a blatant falsehood be published. I felt Dr. Livingston answers was also VERY defensive and once again no remorse upon insulting millions of people with a falsehood.

    Many of us belong to several newsletters and receive a couple of hundred emails a day. I am requesting a unsubscribing of this newsletter, because I have lost all trust in the accuracacy of all Dr. Livingston articles. If as an editor Dr. Livingston didn’t catch such a simple fact, then I wonder to myself what else is he missing for inaccurately. I do not have a problem with Dr. Wiley writing his opinion about the Christain Right, good, bad or indifferent. I would expect as an Editor you could have pointed out to your writer to frame the issue correctly, then if he still wants to slam millions of christains, that is his right and his opinion. Or you could have issued an editorical pointing out the inaccurate characterization regarding embryonic-vs.-stem research. You had that opportunity and was very defensive in response to readers comments and concerns.

    Now I don’t even consider myself part of the religious right.. I’m just a boring old catholic and call myself a libertarian conservative. I don’t agree with allot of christain rights stance, but I don’t like dishonest reporting. What was most telling for me was the response.

    • Granny Mae

      pat,

      The only one insulted was you I guess because the rest of us Christians have no problem with anything he said !

  • Anthony

    Aside from Denniso attempting to pervert the discussion into the realm of Politics. I do see I sped-read the Article prior to making my comments.

    Mr. Livingston had this to say, later on –>
    November 16, 2010 at 1:09 pm
    Dear Daniel,
    Dr. Wiley may or may not support the use of embryonic stem cells. We have not discussed the issue, and I would not presume to speak for him. However, this article specifically describes the use of a patient’s own stem cells and that is what is important to the discussion.”

    All the best,
    Bob
    ——————–
    While I agree my own stems is a good approach, I would also like to add that, I left for work shortly after posting and of all tings, NPR was discussing this issue on the Radio. It was there that I learned the difference between the adult (your own) stem cells and the embryonic (new born) type. NPR was very specific. There has been “no real success” using embryonic stem cells in any scientific research/testing.

    I’m STILL concerned that anything beneficial (like this) can and most likely will be withheld from the public – especially if you aren’t wealthy to begin with.

    1. It lessens the number of surgeries being performed
    2. Which then reduces the amount of profits they would project for

    Anything that deprives the Medical Community from its profit margin, is seemingly considered a bad thing.

    • denniso

      You say I’m trying to ‘pervert the discussion by injecting politics’…Don’t you know that nearly everything in a society comes down to politics because political positions affect public policy…that’s the way it is in a ‘democracy’. It’s not a ‘perversion’ as you seem to belive,it’s reality in a diverse population and multi cultural society that uses the political process to sort out differing opinions. Some think that we only need 1 book to decide what goes on in our country,but that’s more than a little simplistic.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        dennislobber
        there is no politics to the idea that you are brainless!! We are ALL in agreement on that, even your wife!!!

      • Granny Mae

        Denniso,

        Everything in society comes down to politics only when you live in a socialist or marxest or communist society! We don’t but we are going to be there is some people have their way. The more laws you make the more athority you give the politicians and government over you. I don’t think you had a very good education. There is a lot you seem not to know !

        • http://?? Joe H.

          A- Total-MEN!!!!!

        • Denniso

          Sorry Granny,but I am educated,w/ a degree in engineering and a minor in economics. Why can’t you discuss a point w/o making it a personal attack? That usually shows a lack of education.

          Politics is how a representative democracy solves problems and decides on what kind of country we live in. I don’t mean that everyone has to be involved in politics continually,but that how they vote determines how we all live. Money,jobs,defense,environment,old age,medical care,crime…

          • Granny Mae

            Denniso,

            It might be better then if you stuck to engineering and economics !

  • Carol J

    Siiiiiigh. I thought this was about helping to stop back pain. Mine can’t be stopped because of a genetically malformed vertebrae, but those with disc problems could benefit greatly. Why don’t you all get back to the subject at hand.

  • http://N/A Jeanne R

    Good heavens, all of you. I’m a Christian but I don’t want to argue Christianity. I’m looking for back pain help and all this “discussion” is simply about who insulted whom. STOP IT! Lets get back to the issue. Can a person’s OWN stem cells be used to correct disc problems here in the U.S? Who is performing this surgery and where?

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