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Stay Safe When Order Breaks Down

October 31, 2011 by  

Stay Safe When Order Breaks Down

So far, the Occupy events around the country have been relatively benign. Don’t get me wrong: They’ve been horrible for local businesses, a pain in the butt for sanitation workers, irritating for law enforcement and expensive for cities, but they haven’t been anything like what we saw in the Mideast earlier this year.

The people organizing the Occupy events are using advanced psychology and manipulation practices.

People might be dying in their cars in random accidents on their way to or from the protests or dying of drug overdoses after leaving the protests, but none have died at the protests that I know of so far. (Lest you think that the overdose comment is an unfounded low blow, there are about 100 Occupy events across the country, and cases of overdose have been reported at Occupy Wall Street.)

This week, things got a little more interesting. Until this week, for the most part, the worst “violence” has been when sanitation workers have tried to clean up the places where the protesters have been squatting.

Protesters in Oakland upped the ante this week, mostly vandalizing and throwing rocks, glass and paint cans at law enforcement — all the while blaming the police for their actions. The end result is that one protester — whose status I won’t mention out of respect to his 203,000 “brothers” — got a skull fracture because he was hit in the head with what the protesters claim was a tear gas canister but that could have just as easily been something thrown by the protesters.

After more than a month of putting up with the smells, sounds and expense of the Occupy events around the country, cities are getting tired of it and starting to be more active in arresting protesters who are breaking the law. This is causing an increase in arrests, but very little real violence.

Even so, the media love this. They are throwing around words like “riots,” “mobs,” “clash with police” and “violence erupts.” In Atlanta, news crews couldn’t get enough of one protester who walked around with a loaded AK-47. He thought it was his duty to be ready to protect the protesters from police.

But this brings to mind a serious question: How do you protect yourself in a true riot or mob situation? Mob mentality has been causing riotous behavior for thousands of years. Although it’s chaotic, there are things about mob mentality that we can recognize and use in order to keep ourselves safe. One of the most direct ways to do so is to look at and dissect mob behavior. Here’s a quick example that I shared last Christmas and want to share again:


You might have to click on the video twice, depending on your browser



In this video, we have some great examples of mob behavior. I wouldn’t really call this a “riot,” but it is a good example of a minor breakdown in civil order. I’ve set the video to start 40 seconds in… it’s 44 seconds of “boring and peaceful.” But a few seconds after that, you see someone reach in from the left hand side and take a box before he is supposed to. What happens next is that everyone starts grabbing at boxes. And this is important.

In a riot/mob/breakdown in civil order, there are some key components:

An agitator: Someone who’s increasing the intensity of emotions in the crowd. In this case, both the Wal-Mart employee is agitating the crowd and the crowd is agitating itself with pushing, facial expressions and talking. With the Occupy crowds, it’s usually some of the more intense participants.

An instigator: This is the person who takes the first non-civil action. It could be breaking a window, knocking over a barricade, damaging police property, hitting police, throwing something at police, shooting a weapon, picking out an “outsider” to attack or any other “kinetic” action that affects visual/physical antisocial change on the environment around him.

A trigger: If the crowd isn’t sufficiently worked up, the instigator will be a loner and looked at as an oddball by the crowd. If the crowd is sufficiently worked up, the actions of the instigator will trigger a common response by the parts of the crowd that are most worked up. It’s important to note that the trigger won’t do much unless it’s attached to a bomb. In the case of mobs, that bomb is primal tension, pain and/or rage. In Tunisia, Egypt and Algeria this past spring, people were worked up because of a lack of affordable food. We don’t have that with the Occupy movement at this time.

Aggressive follower: These are the people who won’t start the trouble, but are looking for any opportunity to cause trouble once they think they have immunity for their actions by being part of a mass of people who are breaking the law. This is the antisocial version of several cars speeding together on the interstate in the hopes of not getting stopped. Another example is when a group of pedestrians refuses to cross an empty street when the light is red; yet when a single person starts walking, the crowd quickly follows.

Sheep/Lemmings: These are the people who, once they see the instigator and aggressive followers breaking the rules/laws, will jump in because “everyone else was doing it.” This is when the unacceptable quickly becomes seen as acceptable, and people get caught up in the moment. People who normally obey authority figures suddenly ignore them with reckless abandon.

One example of this occurred at an intense outdoor concert I attended. There was lots of alcohol, a couple of mosh pits, stage diving and crowd surfing, fights, loud bass, screaming guitars, intense singing, etc. It was fun in the way that being on the edge of a little danger can be fun; it gets the adrenaline going. Two aspects of this concert weren’t so fun and are applicable to this conversation.

First, a girl was crowd surfing, having fun, and the crowd was being respectful with how they were passing her around. Then, when she was about 10 feet away from me, a turd-punk who might have been 18 started violating her. Some other people saw it, but nobody did anything. I pushed through the crowd, grabbed his arm and twisted it violently and was getting ready to strike him. At that minute, one of the biggest humans I’ve ever seen grabbed my hand, shook his head at me, grabbed the punk and threw him through the air like a kid’s rag doll. The kid never would have done something like that in a crowd at a mall or a football game. It was only because he thought he had cover for his actions that he acted so antisocially. The other point to note is that I was lucky that the big guy agreed with my actions and wasn’t a friend of the punk, coming to his aid. The fact is that you never know who’s alone and who’s got friends in a mob.

Second, a while later, I was at the front of the concert with the crowd behind me and a 4-foot-tall wooden “fence” in front of me. As the main band came on stage, the crowd started surging forward, but there wasn’t anywhere to go and people on the front row were getting crushed — screaming and passing out crushed. I had my arms outstretched against the fence to give my body some room, and the force of the crowd broke the wood in my hands and slammed me against the fence. People were getting pulled over the fence by security, and I eventually went over the fence to get some air, too.

The thing to keep in mind about these two instances is that they were from a fun event. People paid to go to dance, hear bands they liked and get a little crazy. It wasn’t a “protest,” “occupation” or “riot.” It was a concert. The punk-turd-kid was an anomaly and the surging crowd wasn’t malicious, but the results are the same if you happen to be on the wrong end of mob behavior, regardless of what the general intent of the crowd is. A crowd of friends trying to escape a fire in a church can trample you just as quickly as a mob gone crazy.

This next video gets a little more ridiculous, with a headbutt 20 seconds in by a guy in a striped shirt and pushing/pulling that escalates to punching after 30 more seconds:



So, we’ve seen how Americans treat each other when luxury items are up for grabs. How does it look when survival is really on the line?



This next video is a perfect example of why decentralized solutions, in the form of individual preparedness, are the only effective ways to survive disasters.



And one more food riot. This one occurred in Somalia when merchants suddenly stopped taking the country’s official currency. Residents holding Somali shilins that had value the day before were just stuck not being able to buy food for their families. Could this be what things look like here if the dollar collapses?



How do you avoid getting caught up in riots and mobs of people trying to get food after a disaster? One of the core fundamentals is to do everything you can now to make sure that you never have to become a refugee and depend on governments or aid organizations to provide food, water, shelter and protection. In short, you want to have the ability to hunker down wherever you happen to be and Survive In Place when disaster strikes. This will give you the luxury of being able to choose to time your escape to a retreat location, or ride out the disaster right where you are when it happens.

And if you do get caught up on the wrong side of a mob/riot?

First, breathe. Take a series of three to five or more deep breaths, belly breaths where your gut extends and your diaphragm gets to expand fully to get as much oxygen in your body as possible. It will calm you down, keep your vision wide and help you make better decisions.

Second, to the extent that you can, join the crowd. I’m not saying to hurt people, but join in their yelling and pumping your fist in the air as you move out of the crowd. It’s similar to what you’d do if you got thrown from a boat in a rapid river: swim with and perpendicular to the current, because a single person going against it doesn’t have a chance.

Third, look for natural seams in the crowd that you can slip through. If you have to push, push with the back of your hand/arm rather than the palm of your hand (it’s seen as being less offensive). If you’ve got someone with you, grab onto them tightly and say something like “We’ve got a bathroom emergency” or “We need to find medical!” to buy some grace as you’re pushing through the crowd.

Fourth, stay on your feet and keep moving. Don’t roll up in a ball on the ground or try to stop. Again, it’s like fighting a raging river. If you’re with other people from whom you don’t want to get separated, hold on hard and tight. If possible, have both people hold onto each other.

The biggest thing to remember is to keep your cool, keep moving and to make a safe exit as quickly as possible.

Do you have any experiences with mobs, riots, etc.? How about with the Occupy events? If you’ve been to them, what different groups did you see represented? (I’ve been to a few, and it’s amazing how drastically the makeup of the crowd changes from city to city, hour to hour and day to day.) If you have, please share your thoughts by commenting below:

–David Morris


Dr. David Eifrig Jr.

is the editor of two of Stansberry's best advisory services. One of his advisories, Retirement Millionaire, is a monthly letter showing readers how to live a millionaire lifestyle on less than you'd imagine possible. He travels around the U.S. looking for bargains, deals and great investment ideas. Already his average reader has saved $2,793 since 2008 (documented in each Retirement Millionaire issue). He also writes Retirement Trader, a bi-monthly advisory that explains simple techniques to make large, but very safe, gains in the stock and bond markets. This is a pure finance play and the reason Porter Stansberry loves having "Doc" on the team. Doc holds an MBA from Kellogg and has worked in arbitrage and trading groups with major Wall Street investment banks (Goldman Sachs). In 1995, he retired from the "Street," went to UNC-Chapel Hill for medical school and became an ophthalmologist. Now, in his latest "retirement," he joined Stansberry & Associates full-time to share with readers his experiences and ideas.

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    All of this truly define the words “THE DUMB MASSES”. How smart do you have to be to burn down your own neighborhood businesses, sit in the fesces and urine and other garbage of yourselves and others for weeks at a time? Even animals have better sense than that. Putting a cretan communist in charge of our country shows how much common sense these people have. None of them would have lasted one hour during the first or second world war, much less a month.

    • Al Sieber

      I’ll second that.

      • Vicki

        I like to point out to people who want “cretan” communists in power, to take a close look at the communist promise.

        “From each according to his ability. To each according to his need.”

        That last word is need. Not want. Not desire. Just NEED.

        Slaves do not need very much to survive
        and work to the best of their ABILITY.

        • Jim

          I’m not sure exactly what point you’re trying to make….but….it is important to understand that our Constitution and Bill of Rights (along with the Declaration of Independence) are documents based firmly with a Jewish-Christian foundation. It is this foundation that makes our democratic republic type of government unique compared to most other democracies around the world.

          It is a shame and disguise…even unpatriotic (dare I say perhaps even treasonous) to think our public schools have taught the religion (YES RELIGION) of the Theory of Evolution as if it is FACT and not an unproven theory. God was declared dead as far back as 1969…abortion or killing of unborn babies came along in the 60′s too. The moral degradation and ethical bankruptcy of America is obvious and sad.

          Prepare America….judgement will be just around the corner….count on it!!! I’m not sure how God will let it be, but you can count on judgement coming upon this country….as sure as the sun comes up in the East and sets in the West!

          • joe1cr

            Remember the second amendment and keep it close to you and loaded.

          • Blue Jeans

            Thank you for that comment about evolution being taught as “fact” when it is a theory and one of the devils tools to deny The Creator and His Word.

   this is a great resource site!

          • Isaac Davis

            There is no such thing as a “democratic republic”, and the United States of America is a Constitutional Republic. Do the research; look it up. Find the Daniel Hannan video where he speaks to the Cato Institute recently if you need some grounding in your country’s form of government.

   and, from a Canadian perspective.

          • Isaac Davis

            One more to clear up the fog…

            WE are a Constitutional Republic. The Founding Fathers had plenty of prior experiments on which to draw from in creating the Constitution, the Republic, and a nation governed (at least then) by the Rule of Law.

          • DaveH

            Okay Jim, suppose I give you that Evolution is “unproven”. Is God a “proven” entity? Of course not, he exists only in your mind. There is no more way that you could “prove” God to me, than I could “prove” evolution to you.
            It’s “unpatriotic” to teach Evolution, but you think it’s Patriotic to push your Religion on others? I see nowhere in the Constitution where “evolution” is mentioned, but I do see in the 1st Amendment where Congress shall pass no laws respecting an establishment of Religion.
            If you want your children to go to religious schools, then fight with me and other Freedom-loving people for educational choice so that parents may determine what and where their children are taught. That way both sides can be in peace. Or is giving people Free Choice too much for your controlling self, Jim?

          • granny mae

            My thoughts for what it is worth !
            Everyone has the freedom of speach and we should all be able to exercise that freedom, but not at the expence of others freedoms or at the expence of destroying public or private personal property. You nor I have no right to stop the freedoms of others to make a living or for making others foot the bill for cleaning up after the rest of us. I believe that Cities, counties and states need to set rules for demonstrations. You can demonstrate between certain daylight hours, and only for a certain length of time. Say a week or a month or what ever the powers that be agree to. You must have a permit and you must post a bond for the cost of police and clean-up. You cannot destroy private property or business. If you have something to say , then say it and go home before someone gets hurt !

        • mark

          Right this was Jefferson, Madison, and Washington’s philosophies with their own slaves. Those great heroes of freedom who founded our wonderful nation.

          • DaveH

            Mark is obsessed by past instances of slavery, yet he has no problem at all enslaving mainstream Americans to the Leaders of Big Government. What a hypocrite.

        • granny mae

          In watching the videos it is obvious that we need to stay as far away from such things as possible. As for the Hatian video, and the government trying to get food to the masses, it appears that bringing the food to the masses is not the thing to do, you bring the masses in line to the food so it can be controled. Once the people know where they can go to get food and water there is less panic, but when you drive a vehicle out into the crowds you are just asking for trouble. Also in the case of Haite the government was a big hinderance to the people. There were huge ships ancored off shore with supplies and medicine and they couldn’t get it to shore because the government wanted money from the suppliers to allow them to unload! There was a big out cry over this and finally some of the christian suppliers such as Franklin Graham got hold of Greta Van Sustern of Fox news and she brought it to the attention of the public and the government and it was finally taken care of. These are the same kinds of things that can take place when TSHTF !

    • mark

      Yeah this coming from a cretin fascist! I’ll take the demonstrators anyday over the pigs and prostitutes who rule on Wall Street. But you kneel before these pigs and beg them to let you lick their puts. You worship the people who are harming this country the most – the pigs at the top who buy and sell presidents like Hanes underwear! You love them hoping they will let you have a few crumbs. I call them out for the thieves and whores that they are!

      • wrsrvn67

        Hey bigmouth, Have you ever been to a Communist Country or a Middle Eastern country? I have and it would seem that you would fit in better there than you do here. You are part of the problem, not the solution.

      • alex

        those “pigs and prostitutes” are doing what those idiots ,you helped elect,told them they had to do, just like making loans to people that had no way to pay them back

      • DaveH

        Mark, you’re the fascist. You’re the one who wants to force his ways on other people.
        I haven’t met any bankers yet who are as vile as you are. And some of them may or may not steal the money of others, but I know for a fact that you advocate theft. So what makes you think you are better than the people you seem to despise?

  • sean murrey ILLIniois

    They a bunch of animals they better not piss me off trying get me they will find cane shoved up thier ass.

    • mark

      Keep your sexual fantasies to yourself!

      • Opal the Gem

        Now we know where your mind is and what turns you on.

  • CP

    Jukebox, go back and look at the sixties and seventies for better examples of the times and the makeup of these protest groups. We don’t have all the dope smoking potheads here, but the attitude is the same,”We don’t like what you are doing, and are looking for a way we can change it.” Truthfully, I have seen less trouble out of these groups than most of the sit ins from the fifties through the eighties. Another point is that a lot of these people do have day jobs and are doing the protest thing on their own time while still keeping their jobs, and very few hippies I knew had jobs until they outgrew that stage of their lives.

    • CJM

      CP: A mob is a mob–regardless of whether or not the mobster is employed. When you choose to sack a place of business, disrupt another person’s right to a livlihood, assault and insult innocent people trying to conduct business at the store or bank of choice, and commit debasing behaviors just because you happen to DESIRE being present as a mobster, then you have forfeited your right to protection of the law because you are breaking the law. Law Enforcement should just go in and do what is necessary to break up these UNLAWFUL assemblages—arresting any who resist and assigning them to clean up the filth they have left behind. I have no sypathy for these manical egotistical rabble-rousing marauders…knock them on their azzes and let them be a part of a cleanup chaingang.


      CP, I was in Haight Asbury in the sixties, I was in Watts in the sixties, I was in Nashville and Memphis when the National Guard was patrolling my old neighborhoods in tanks and armored vehicles. I HAVE been there personally, so I don’t need to look these things up. DUMB MASSES of the sixties are not much different from the DUMB MASSES of today.

  • Kevlar Linc

    The people in video clip #2 do not look like “Americans” (fighting over luxury items). This looks like Eastern Europe, maybe Russia.

    • skip

      Looks like a fascist police attack on the people – all the smoke and chaos is from police tear bomb canisters. None of the protesters anywhere were carrying guns, sidearms, AK 47s, and the like. can you imagine what would happen if those carrying guns were accosted by the police – then you would see a real mess.

  • DavidH

    I doubt any of these yahoos have a (real) job. They are slackers and losers with nothing better to do and especially do not have any common sense.

    • mark

      Right none of them work on Wall Street robbing people morning, noon, and night. Those people have respectable (real) jobs and vote themselves giant bonuses as they steal, and steal and steal. They’re all patriots too who believe in the flag and the capitalist system. Why not they’ve made millions off it while the suckers sweat mortgage payments, gas fillups, and bills. Ya gotta love it, it’s a wonderful (capitalist) world. For some anyway.

      • alex

        why don’t you just move to cuba or better yet to china

      • DaveH

        You are one greedy envious human being, Mark. Maybe if you did something to improve your education or usefulness you wouldn’t have such low self-esteem that you need to spend so much time trying to drag others down.

  • Johanne

    I was caught in a mob in 1977 Barcelona just after General Franco had died. I was a tourist and my friend was a tourist from Germany. There was the crowd/mob? on our right hand and the riot police with shields and batons on the left. Klaus and I quickly assessed the situation and went down a side street and moved away from the mob as fast as humanly possible. Went on to a nice dinner and flamenco dancing, but that night remains in my memory.

    I seldom go to concerts because the situation can get out of hand quickly. The few times I have done so, I look for exits and plot my escape before the concert.

    • DJ

      Hi Johanne, I was living in Central Madrid in 1977 when Generalissimo Franco died.I was there as a student and working on the Air Force base at Torrejon. I walked out of my apt. to go to the base and what I saw has stuck with me for over 40 years . A city bus had been taken by an anarchist of some kind, came blasting down the street and ran over 2 Guardia Civil police right in front of me! Then the anarchist got out and tried to climb over the 10 foot high fence around our apts, but the Guardia Civil gunned him down with their “burp” machine guns.

      I ran back into my apt., hunkered down and rode out the next 2 weeks without ever going out. Phone lines were taken over also,and I couldn’t call the base. I was well accepted as living as a Spaniard at this time, but the anti-American sentiment ramped up ten-fold with Francos passing.My Spanish friends stayed with me, and went out for food and necessities, as common sense told me to stay put and out of site. Mr. Livingston’s advice here is very valuable, especially with the CPUSA Socialist party USA etc being involved with these protests. I do believe big trouble is coming America’s way and sooner than anyone thinks. I will be prepared to survive a minimum of 2 months of social unrest of any kind,( food, water, batteries, cooking gas, etc) and shoot to kill to protect myself and my family. being well-prepared puts you among the fittest, in the survival of the fittest fact of life.

  • http://yahoo Skyraider6

    Shotguns will breakup a mob

    • Kevlar Linc

      Shotguns will cause a stampede.

    • TheEngineer

      Unfortunately you only get one or two shots from a shotgun before you are overcome by the mob. The mob has a life of it’s own and until it cools down will prevail. The best advice is to escape any way possible.

      • joe1cr

        Take out the duck plug and load your shotgun full up with double 00
        buck,that will breack up the mob!!!

        • Walt

          If the intent is to break up the mob, then #4 birdshot, containing approx. 135 pellets of .13″ caliber, might be more of a deterent and humane.

          Birdshot, as opposed to buckshot and depending on range, will penetrate approx. 6″, while #OO buckshot (9 pellets at .33″ caliber each) most likely will go through a human body. Shotgun ammunition also spreads out after leaving the barrel to approx. 1 inch per yard of range traveled.

          So at 75 feet, those 135 pellets of #4 birdshot will be spread out within a 24″ dia. You are more likely get more folk’s attention.

    • 45caliber

      Only if you aren’t too close. If you are close, they will overrun you – and almost immediately beat you to death for trying to shoot.

      If you are some distance back from such a mob, the best thing to do is shoot the ground in front of them. That will cause the shot to spread and hit their legs. When those behind hear the shots and then the screams of the wounded, they are far less likely to keep coming. Shooting AT one of them will mean you hit one or at most two – and the rest can keep coming.

      • JUKEBOX

        During Korea, you could shoot the legs off the approaching, drugged up enemy soldiers, and they would keep on coming until they bled out.

  • eddie47d

    Folks like the author who emphasis the bad will never see the good or the original reason for the OWS protesters. I believe that was part of his intention in the first half of his comment.He knows the facts but left a few out.Such as that Iraq veteran who was hit in the head with a police canister. Considering he was facing the police that was a distorted try by Dick in an attempt to protect the police and blame the protesters. Some of you say America will have a police state and as long as you defend police actions against any group in assembly then you already have that police state.Unless the police are protecting other citizens from vandalism or assult then the police need to stand down. If not then they are the perpetrators against assembly and the 1st Amendment.I could bring up an analogy about lets say republicans meeting at a bar. One of them drives home and kills someone so does that mean that all the drinkers in his group are drunks and killers . Hardly but that is what Dick is implying with the protesters in bringing up drugs. In the second half he brings up appriopriate survival skills in avoiding extreme situations and how to handle them. Too bad he couldn’t have left it at that.

    • Cliffystones


      I’ll bet you could turn a restaurant menu into a political pi$$ing contest!

    • LMW6

      Eddie, I have to ask. Did you defend the Tea Party Rallies like this when the media went out of their way to find the crazies in the crowd? I’ve seen several of the videos of the veteran being hit, and I’ve yet to see anything that proves that it was a canister that hit him. In the videos is at least one protester picking up what could very well be a canister and throwing it in the general direction of the veteran. Did that canister hit him and if it did was there enough force to cause the vet to be so injured? I don’t know since I’m not an expert. I do know this, the organizers of OWS and their emails clearly wanted folks to get arrested. They knew this was their ticket to media coverage and to getting more people to join them.

      They have folks who are attempting to get arrested on purpose – they are referred to in those emails as “those who are willing to get arrested for the cause”….

      While the public cry out against crony capitalism and the bail outs are real and shared by the majority of Americans, most of us who have researched what is actually behind this occupation are fully aware the it was begun by anarchists, socialists, and communists. You can find that out too if you choose to do a little digging.

      • independent thinker

        eddie doesn’t have a clue. The article isn’t about the OWS movement it is about being prepared. The OWS crowds were mentioned because there is the very real possibility of them becoming violent mob scenes. The rightness or wrongness of the OWS crowds have nothing to do with it.

        • eddie47d

          Of coarse it is IT. It’s there in black and white and no different than if Crystal was presenting it. That is why I said he should have stuck to the second half of his article.It’s not even a hidden message in what he really thinks.

          • Buster the Anatolian

            As he said eddie you don’t have a clue.

          • eddie47d

            and Buster thinks he does?

          • Buster the Anatolian

            I’m not claiming to have a clue eddie but you danmed sure don’t have one.

      • 45caliber


        I haven’t seen the item but a canister of tear gas is very light. I would suspect that very few people could throw it hard enough to fracture a skull even at close range. Further, a canister gets HOT (300-400 degrees) fast when the tear gas goes off (it is burning). You are risking a bad burn if you try to pick up such a can.

        • Tim Halpin

          M7A2 riot gas weighs 15.7 oz.a can. Thats just shy of a pound. It’s made out of steel with sharp edges.How do I know? I just weighed one. It would definitely fracture a scull if you got hit with it. Yes, they get very hot, but I’ve seen people throw them back. The smart way would be to take off your shirt and use it to keep from getting burnt.

      • Mark Dabney

        As usual, you miss the point of how the HEGELIAN “right” has taken worst case scenarios and misrepresented them – of course you have zero understanding of how many pedophiles are in the GOP because their dirt remains hidden so long as they do the bidding of the plutocracy.

        Your self-righteous arrogance is detestable before the Lord because you obsess on other’s errors – yet blindly disregard your own

      • Isaac Davis

        Fithian. Soros. Cloward-Piven. Ayers. Clintoon. Obama.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      eddie… You could have used a real analogy. What about Ted Kennedy and the young lady who didn’t make it home that night he gave her a ride?

      • eddie47d

        Can’t deny that sordid situation and a good catch Robin.

    • RightGunner

      The Constitution in total, and the 1st Amendment in particular is constantly abused, such as in the above by eddie47d. Most of those attempting to protect themselves by reference to the 1st Amendment don’t seem to have read it. The 1ST Amendment, in the appropriate portion, only keeps Congress from making laws abridging the right of the people peaceably to assemble.

      Many people leave off “peaceable” from assembly either through ignorance or malice. Many also fail to recognize that the first amendment only applies to the Federal Government, limiting laws Congress can make. The States, Cities and other such jurisdictions follow the State Constitution and the rules of the Cities, etc.

      Since most of the Occupy-Whatever “attendees” are not on Federal property, it is the State, City, etc. that make, and enforce, the rules, most commonly by the local police. If one is told by the local police to get off the public street, park area or property that the police are responsible to the city for protecting, anyone occupying that property must comply. If those so commanded wish, they may take their complaint to court, just as if they received a speeding ticket that they feel was unjustified.

      City workers, including law enforcement, do not have to submit to indecencies, such as being screamed or cursed at, or have the offended’s bodily fluids or solids presented to them or their vehicles. This appears to be a problem of dealing with undiapered baby tantrums of those whose parents should still be supervising them

  • Big Red

    These wackos don’t have day jobs, get a life. Mommy and daddy are footing the bill. We’re in this predicament now because of the wacko hippies of the sixties. They are now the lawyers, judges and politicians making the decisions taking this beloved country down the path of ruin. Wake up and get prepared because it’s only going to get worse.

  • bob wire

    “How do you protect yourself in a true riot or mob situation? Mob mentality has been causing riotous behavior for thousands of years. Although it’s chaotic, there are things about mob mentality that we can recognize and use in order to keep ourselves safe.”

    Very simple, avoid them.

    problem solved!

    I don’t do crowds. period.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      bob wire…. Sound advice!

    • 45caliber

      I agree. Neither do I.

      My son and wife will get up at 2 am to go shoping after Thanksgiving for “specials”. I tell them that the prices aren’t good enough for me to get in the middle of such a crowd.

      • independent thinker

        Unfortunately some people have no choice. I am refering to the retail employees who are required to be there for the sale.

  • Susie

    I think that many of the occupiers are making the statement that they are unhappy with the way things are. They don’t seem to know just who to blame. I would hope that if some radicals push for extreme violence, the crowd would disperse. I don’t think the present majority of the occupiers are committed to bringing down America. I still am getting prepared. Self-reliance is the way.

  • Cliffystones


    As an avid whitewater rafter, I already was thinking in terms of your “river” analogies before I read them. And you are spot on IMO.

    I’ve never been in a riot, but I’ve been to enough large rock concerts. The first one was in 1975 at Anaheim Stadium, CA. A riot almost broke out over the security guards confiscating Frizbees!

    A couple of things I could add are these. If you can’t get totally out of the epicenter, look for an “eddy”. In rafting an eddy is a spot of calm water, usually but not always near the bank. Find a spot that the rioters are avoiding, could be foliage, or architectural “nooks” in the buildings, and head for that.

    The other thing, obvious to us, is being observant! Watch the events unfolding and your surroundings as much as possible. “:Act” on your observations with forethought, don’t simply “react” like the majority of human lamb-chops do.

    • 45caliber

      Good advice.

  • Michael

    Back in the early 70s I was a twenty year young worker driving a delivery van in the streets of L.A.. While working one late afternoon driving the unmarked panel van in downtown L.A., I was caught in a traffic jam…all traffic stopped, and as I watched I noticed people were running down the street and past the van…kind of like Godzilla was coming up behind them. A few minutes later there were literally many hundreds of rioters approaching, and were suddenly all around me. They were latino and consumed with breaking storefront windows and grabbing merchandise. It was utter chaos. I saw a man in his car, dressed in a suit, and he was pulled from his car and stomped by a hive of thugs,then his wife was assaulted by having her shirt ripped open or off, and then they were robbed at gunpoint. These criminals looked at me sitting in the van. I could not move in any direction, the windows were already unrolled due to the heat….so I flipped the radio over quickly to a Mexican station that was blasting hispanic music across the airwaves. Three of the hive ran over to my door, one with a pistol in his hand and a crazed smile on his face. They were high from molesting the woman and getting ready to rob me. I remember looking into their crazed eyes and seeing a crusafix around the neck of the gunman…he noticed what I was looking at- hanging out of his shirt and for an instance he looked at his friends… I went on to flash them a big grin, raised my hands and yelled Viva LaRaza!!!!…as the radio howled their version of what I suspect was hillbilly heaven. They looked at one another, shook their heads in agreement, and said “Cool man” and down the street they went following the cloud of looters and opportunists. I then left the van and assisted the man and woman who had been robbed, tried to tell them that it would be OK, and waited for normalcy to return. It took half an hour for the mess to clear, and I listened to the roar of Plymouths (police vehicles) converging from all directions, with helicopters overhead and riot police marching down the sidewalks….but the looters were already gone. An hour later the traffic was again moving slowly and I drove the untouched van back into work… where I was hours late and the boss was worried to death and happy to see me and his cargo (not necessarily in that order)….all in good shape. I have never forgot my experience of being caught in a dangerous riot, and I know how ‘thinking outside the loop’ and ‘adapting to the psycho-cultural enviroment’ made all the differenc for me that day. I hope this helps others in their attempts to move through life unmolested and free from the dangers of urban life. Michael

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Michael… Your story is inspiring. I am sure your ability to think on your feet has served you well in life.

    • bob wire

      Great story and perfect example of adapting a posture and position with what is as hand and at your disposal.

      I’ve never been in such an angry crowd.

    • Cliffystones

      Great story Michael. My wife was coming in from LAX during the Rodney King riots. I breathed a sigh of relief when she pulled into the driveway.

      I’m reminded of a funny story that you should check out. It was an interview with the late Andy Kauffman. The reporter asked him how he came up with the character he played on the “Taxi” TV show (Latka?). He told the story about how he was approached by muggers in Central Park demanding cash. He went into the sniveling routing, acting like he didn’t totally understand. Speaking in broken English saying “Money, do you have money, where is the money”. He saved his butt from being beaten or worse!

    • Christin


      Thanks for sharing… it does help… I will remember… assimilate enough for a short time until it is safe.

  • s c

    I wonder how much persuasion it would take for one of those saint-like demonstrators to prove that they CARE about making a sacrifice to further ‘the cause.’ If they’re in a burning mood, I’d think they owe it to themselves and their MANY friends to burn down their own house/apartment first. Of course, that ASSUMES that they are sane enough to first warn their neighbors about the smoke and flames that weren’t there a few minutes ago.
    Now, for the mental defectives on this website, I am NOT suggesting that this should be done. However, I do have to wonder about the mentality of some protestors who D NOT have enough matter between their ears to flush a toilet – let alone make important decisions independently.

  • 45caliber

    The main thing to remember about getting caught in a mob is to NOT get caught in a mob. If there is a chance of a problem stirring up a mob, don’t go. If you are in a crowd such as a concert, try to remain on the border of it. Then you can get out more easily.

  • 45caliber

    I noticed a story this morning I thought interesting. A woman was raped (or at least molested) at one of these things. The man was shoved out and the rest yelled at him to not come back. They then told the police that “they had handled the problem” and the police weren’t needed to do anything more. They would “handle” all such problems themselves.

  • CJM

    Many times in the past, foreign humanitarian assistance has been abused via the recipient governments taking the items as their own and selling them in the black market, so the claim of black markets is nothing new. The people of those countries and the nations providing that assistance did nothing to prevent the thefts–Bangladesh is one starved nation that comes to mind. As long as any country permits rioters to sack and destroy, these selfish individuals will continue with their murder and mayhem. It is unfortunate that aid to the Haitians was not better planned; the rush to assist led to inhumane treatment and the misdistribution of the food and water among those who needed it the most. As for Americans who riot, they have no need to resort to such a disastrous means to convey what they want—it is pure selfishness and uncaring attitudes that leads to creating even greater harm to society. Rioting Americans are a shame and disgrace to the USA…

    • mark

      The demonstrators aren’t rioting. The cops are! Can’t you see with your own eyes?! The cops work for the system. They defend the system. They are bought and owned. The demonstators are not. Therefore they must be demonized,smeared, and destroyed. All who refuse to bow down to the system must be destroyed.

  • Buck

    personally I believe in peacefull protest as a measure of freedom . However these protestors are not legitimate in that they are not responsible American citizens but rather useless idiots turned out by useless propagandists whose sole purpose in life is to put all us moron hobbitts under the control of their enlightened elitist controls . They want government control of everyone but their priviliged selves so they set their trained misfits out to create havoc that is difficult to control while maintaining freedom of the masses .

    • mark

      All protesters are legitimate as long as they don’t call for mass murder or harm others through violence. The more demonstrators the better, be they of the right, left, or middle. Keep demonstrating, the more and the longer, the better.

      • independant thinker


  • Jay

    Any peaceful demonstration/movement can be easily infiltrated and discredited. Just send in a few moles to stir and provoke, and voila, mayhem/derailment! Hope this never happens, but unfortunately i see it coming. The rich fat-cats, have ample resources at their disposal, and when their interests are at stake, watch out!

  • Mark Dabney

    Quite frankly, I do not appreciate the tone – these people have a VERY real & legitimate concern – the NeoCons have immunized themselves from correction of prosecution of war crimes and fraudulent pretexts for perpetual war – Soetoro promised to “change” things – and with a Hegelian opponent like Warmonger McCain people chose the controlled opposition of cyanide over arsenic.

    The skull fracture was the result of an AIMED “rubber bullet” that hit a VETERAN of the “War on Terror” – and you make it sound as though it could have just as easily been the OWS “mob” throwing things. That perception could only be the result of the failure to do due diligence by taking the establishment law[LESS] “enforcement” without investigation.


    Repent of the self-righteous hypocrisy that establishment war-criminals are a legitimate alternative to MT rhetoric of the Hegelian “Left” I see unrepentant LIES – and I see not a trace of fairness or even-handedness of how the Hegelian “Left” has tried and FAILED to co-opt OWS – repent of taking worst case scenarios and twisting them to be normative. If anyone dares to be honest, remember this – you can get your info straight from the horse’s mouth – or you can go to the OTHER end of the horse and get what you have coming for being so prejudicial of the Hegelian “Right”. My experience is that the OWS people can be reasoned with contrary to the self-righteous arrogance of too many on the Hegelian “Right”

    • Jeep

      Interesting rhetoric, it’s too bad it doesn’t pass the common sense test. I like how you call McCain a warmonger, after the prez drops bombs on Lybia without congressional approval. And, what do you think those guys are doing in Africa, passing out candy? I suppose the killing of Alawaki in a country we have not declared war on was not “warlike” either. Yes, sir. Looks like the left has quite a penchant for war. Anyway, I can’t say for sure how the “veteran” was injured, and neither can you. But, I can say that it should not have happened, I am sure you can agree with that. And, if Hell is reserved for liars and cowards, then I am sure that most of the liberal left and the extreme right have front row seats. And, quite frankly, I do not appreciate your tone.

  • Twocentsworth

    Peacefullllll demonstrations my foot. Every one of these has the potential for violence to erupt. When you assemble large crowds, groups, mobs or whatever U want to call them you can always expect someone to behave badly.

  • freedomfighter

    The people involved in the protests have gathered because they know at a gut level something is WAY wrong with our country; they are right. Lacking clear focus the protest it is easily subject to ridicule, partly due to the fringe types who are attracted to gatherings and protests the way seagulls are attracted to schools of fish.
    What is wrong is that our country, our government has been hi-jacked by big money interests. This goes way past Republican, Democrat,socialist Obama, illegal immigration, race, creed,urban/rural differences, age groups—those are mere distractions from the big picture which conveniently keep us divided,arguing about stupid crap, pointing fingers,squawking or pontificating. The media has become a tool to keep the herds contentedly grazing or panicked into stampede. Get a bull angry,bleeding,tired, confused, wave a cape at it to charge and it will charge, the CAPE, not the person swinging the cape, almost every time. Focus is on the movement, not the matador, nor at the end, his sword. Works for animals, works for people.
    Big money, meaning Big Money. Make that BIG MONEY. Out of curiosity I read what looked like would be a real leftwing inflammatory thing entitled “Our Politicians Are Money Launderers Not Too Different From Tony Soprano”. (I read everything and I loved Tony Soprano.) It was the most clear explanation of what has happened in our country that I have seen. Google it. Read it. Then let’s stop charging the red capes and figure out what to do, USA.

  • freedomfighter

    PS—”socialist” was supposed to have a comma behind it to read “socialist, Obama” in the list after “Republican, Democrat,” But if that typo kept you reading it was all to the good.

  • Freedom Fighter

    David Morris, the true communist agitator, who will rile the mobs, but run and hide to come out safely, when chaos is over. Find him and make him pay for his cowardly ways.


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