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South Dakota Law Will Require Three-Day Wait, Counseling Before Abortions

March 25, 2011 by  

South Dakota Law Will Require Three-Day Wait, Counseling Before AbortionsSouth Dakota Governor Dennis Daugaard has signed a bill that will require women to wait three days and receive counseling before having an abortion.

The legislation, which was signed by Daugaard on March 22, is slated to take effect on July 1. Pregnant women who want an abortion will have to wait 72 hours following a physician assessment, which will be the longest delay anywhere in the United States. In addition, patients will be required to get counseling at a "pregnancy help center" before the procedure, CNN reported.

Supporters of the law said it will help ensure that abortions are voluntary, uncoerced and informed.

"I think everyone agrees with the goal of reducing abortion by encouraging consideration of other alternatives," said Daugaard, quoted by the media outlet. "I hope that women who are considering an abortion will use this three-day period to make good choices."

According to the Guttmacher Institute, a total of 34 States require that women receive counseling before an abortion, and 25 of those States require women to wait a specified period of time, usually 24 hours, between counseling and the procedure.

Planned Parenthood, an organization that provides abortions, said that it will file a lawsuit in an attempt to stop the measure, Reuters reported. Sarah Stoesz, the CEO and president of the organization's Minnesota, North Dakota and South Dakota locations, called the bill an "egregious violation of the Constitution" that interferes with a woman's right to receive the medical procedure. 

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  • Donald

    It will really attempt to coerce women into not getting an abortion,

    • FireFly

      This will cut into the profits of Planned Parenthood. We need to raise taxes on everyone so Congress can continue to give them the BILLION DOLLARS they do ever decade.

      • Robert Smith

        I can’t help but wonder just how much it will cost to support the kids that will be born.

        Why don’t YOU pay for it? I don’t.

        Do you realize that more abortions are PREVENTED by PP than any other organization? They are teaching women how to prevent getting pregnant.

        If sex was bad why did your god make it feel so good? BTW, why did he put the sewer in the middle of the playground? Not too smart if you ask me.

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          robert,
          Just go write your support check and leave us alone!!

          • Robert Smith

            Quit lying Joe. I have NEVER written a support check. And! Nobody has ever said I should.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Rob, why do you lie about this moron? I remember you saying in a previous thread: “…it’s always a good time to write a check to planned parenthood…” Just got caught up in another lie. You really have to keep them straight more often. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jay

            Good one, Joe H!

          • Robert Smith

            Shucks samurai and Joe, it wasn’t a “good one.” It wasn’t a lie either. Contributions to PP and child support are two different things.

            But once again you two have clearly demonstrated your inclination to twist things into a lie again rather than answering questions (that’s a reference to Joe not responding to questions but offering cheap insults and lies).

            IMO that’s not only unethical but typical of the extreme right.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry moron, but you did post that statement before. Ergo, it’s not a lie. I guess this is what to expect from a lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist. 하나니 하고 나라를 위해서! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • iamone3

          Rob, Sex, as with many things is not inherently bad, but like many things, those that misuse or abuse sex are making the mistake and suffer from usually a lack of self control. Children exhibit this trait and require teaching & training and with patience they usually learn to control themselves.

          • Robert Smith

            Hi iamone,

            If your god is so great why did he make sex feel so good? Why do you try to judge when it is your brutal god who has that ultimate authority according to many around here? Are you trying to play god?

            As far as teaching goes Sarah P. was a failure. Look at Brystol, yet Sarah is a goddess to many on the right. Why do you worship a failure?

            Rob

          • Jana

            Rob,

            You are espousing what your god wants, and you should be so proud as you serve him well.
            You are a dirty minded old man.

          • iamone3

            Rob, Your efforts to draw others into your sexual fantasy is revealing. You clearly are a troubled man. Get help.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Robert Smith,

            Ezekiel 9: 4-6

            And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem….let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women….”

          • Jana

            coal miner,
            Since you think you know so much, tell us why God had them kill every man, every woman, every child, and even every animal in that land. He had a reason, and it was an extremely good one, so now that YOU have introduced this why don’t YOU tell us why.
            That requires a little bit of studying, but it will do you good.

          • Jana

            coal miner,
            Jay did your homeowrk for you. All you have to do is go to the last 3 posts from Jay (as of this writing) and read the answers.

        • Jay

          Did someone not support you at some point in time? You sound very self-centered and selfish to boot…

          • Robert Smith

            Jay, contrary to your insinuation I’ve supported myself since I graduated from High school. I got through college without any outside help.

            However, I’m mystified why you think that those who need help are in some way evil, as you implied.

            Rob

          • Jay

            And prior to that, who supported you? Who wiped your ass, fed you, protected you, instructed you, clothed you? You?

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jana,

            Lot was a dirty old man,ther is nothing worse than a dirty old man molesting his two virgin daughters in a cave, then claiming to Biblical writers, “They got me drunk and seduced me.. I was too drunk to even realize I was having intercourse with them.” Nobody questioned Lot “Well man, how did you get an erection if you were THAT drunk?!” Common sense. Lot’s story wouldn’t hold up (excuse the pun) in a modern court of law.

          • Jana

            coal miner,
            That is such a distortion that it doesn’t even require an answer.

          • Jay

            He can’t help it Jana, he’s distorted, hence he distorts the Bible!

          • JeffH

            Jana, did you know that coal miner worships with the Joy of Satan!

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jana and Jay,

            Sceptic’s Annotated Bible:

            Under God’s direction, Moses’ army defeats the Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: “Have you saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.” So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed, killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000 virgins — Wow! (Even God gets some of the booty — including the virgins.) 31:1-54

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Sceptc’s Annotated Bible:

            Lot and his daughters camp out in a cave for a while. The daughters get their “just and righteous” father drunk, and have sexual intercourse with him, and each conceives and bears a son (wouldn’t you know it!). Just another wholesome family values Bible story. 19:30-38

          • Jana

            Coal can’t even be honest in the name of the supposed Bible that he has taken all of this from:

            The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible – http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ – is a website dedicated to pointing out all of the supposed errors, contradictions, and discrepancies in the Bible. The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible divides the supposed errors into the following categories: injustice, absurdity, cruelty and violence, intolerance, contradictions, family values, women, good stuff, science and history, prophecy, sex, language, interpretation, and homosexuality. It is not the purpose of this article to refute every issue the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible raises (there are over 6,000).

            I didn’t think he was smart enough to find all of this on his own.

        • Jay

          Abortion is nothing more then population control. A brilliant idea that could only have come from the cesspool of atheism. When one hates God, he will also hate and despise His image, man.

          • Robert Smith

            jay says: ” A brilliant idea that could only have come from the cesspool of atheism.”

            Well, there is a big lie.

            Go to: http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/

            They support Planned Parenthood.

            “We call on Catholics all across the US to contact their legislators today and urge them to oppose efforts to defund Planned Parenthood and Title X. The message is simple: the US bishops do not speak for Catholics on this issue. Catholics support access to the full range of reproductive health services and use them at the same rates as do other women in the United States.”

            Rob

          • iamone3

            Rob, some Catholics support abortion, some women do too. If you believe they are in a majority, you believe in fantasy.

          • Jana

            Abortion is really a moot point. No one is saying they can’t have an abortion.
            All they are doing is saying give it 3 days and get some counciling from both sides and make an informed decision. This is definitely not saying that abortion will be eliminated. Too many times these young girls panick and think they have no other choices, so they just want all of the girls to be able to make informed decisions.

            Here in Texas they are passing a law that states that planned parenthood or whoever must let the mother hear the heartbeat and maybe even see the pics of the baby in the womb. They take them automatically, so they have to OFFER the girl the choice as to whether she wants to see them or not. Most of the time the girls aren’t even aware that these things are done let alone be available for them to see.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jeff H,

            Did you know that Jay of Satan people are consevative Republicans.Check it out.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jay and Jana,

            It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies. — Mark Twain, Letters From the Earth:The Bible

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          YOu get an abortion, you get sterilized, as does the father.

          You have one child on welfare and get sterilized, as does the father.

    • Mpl632

      So, you are for coercing women to have a abortion. You sound like a true winner.

      • Robert Smith

        Coersing women one way or another is NOT choice.

        Making laws preventing abortion endangers women and takes away their choice.

        Rob

        • eyeswideopen

          Hands clapping, finaly,someone who doesn’t hate women. Thank your mother for us. She raised a son who acknowledges that women have the right to make their own choices. Kudos to you!

  • Doc Sarvis

    Oh great, let that nervous system grow some more before the abortion. How about a three day waiting period before having sex without thinking of the consequences guys.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Doc… I think your idea for the guys is almost as good as South Dakota’s new law! Hopefully other states will follow suit!

    • Eddie47d

      A 24 hour waiting period which a few states have would be just fine. Now we have another Republican pushing the envelope and interfering with a woman’s life and emotions. The only clinic in South Dakota is in Sioux Falls which is hundreds of miles across the state for most citizens. Those women would have to make that trip at a burden to themselves,jobs and to other family members. Will the state pick up the tab for hotel and travel or is this another way to make poor people and even middle class women poorer. Women have local doctors who could give counseling within a respectful 24 hours waiting period and they could also perform abortion services. Instead the government is trying to interfere once again with extreme measures to please those who want to control other persons lives. South Dakota lost it’s battle (Amendment)two weeks ago to allow any citizen to legally kill an abortion doctor without fear of prosecution. The Republicans always have something up their sleeve and they are trying to get that same amendment on the Iowa and Nebraska docket. The Republicans are also pushing a law in Missouri abolishing child labor laws (back to the good old days with that one too). This would do away with age and number of hours worked.

      • Sntich-in-Time

        There is no “right” at risk here. Killing your offspring should be a CRIME not a libertarian cause. This moral blindness will doom the liberty movement.

        • newspooner

          The “pro-life” vs. “pro-abortion” split is about 50/50 in all 3 major parties. Democrats who are Catholics tend to make up most of their pro-life numbers. Republicans who are conservatives tend to make up most of their pro-life numbers. Libertarians who believe that every life deserves equal protection tend to make up most of their pro-life numbers. Democrats who want to control people tend to make up most of their pro-abortion numbers. Republicans who government to be society tend to make up most of their pro-abortion numbers. Libertarians who believe that a newly-created pre-born human is a trespasser who should only be allowed pre-born residency at the will of the host (mother) tend to make up most of their numbers.

          So the abortion issue is not really a party issue; it is a fundamental religious issue. When does life begin? Who gets to decide if the beginning is arbitrary? Is there a moral responsibility (or burden if you choose to label it thus) for every mother and mother-to-be to protect the life of the helpless baby or pre-born baby? These are questions that are too important to leave to the edicts of government.

          • Thamera

            Well said newspooner.

          • Eddie47d

            Okay,let’s get government out of the equation and truly let women make their own decisions without interferences. Most women will choose life with or without restrictions. So why is the right trying to make those who choose alternatives outlaws. You don’t have to agree with abortion to keep them safe and legal.

          • GregS

            newspooner says:

            “…abortion…is a fundamental religious issue.”

            Not true! There are athiests (e.g. Nat Hentoff) who are pro-life. The abortion issue is a human life issue, NOT a “religious issue.”

            newspooner says:

            “When does life begin? Who gets to decide if the beginning is arbitrary?”

            It’s a scientific fact that the unborn child is a living human organism, beginning at conception, with his/her own complete genome and sex. Any medical textbook will tell you this.

            newspooner says:

            “These are questions that are too important to leave to the edicts of government.”

            “Edicts” have already been created: The first “edict” of the federal government was in 1973, when Roe v. Wade / Doe v. Bolton formally institutionalized (and politicized) abortion on demand for any and all reasons throughout all stages of pregnancy.

          • http://n.cates@cox.net Norman F.

            Its not when does life begin; its when did it begin? It began at the creation for all living things on earth, sea creatures, flying creatures, growing plants, animal life, and human life. Life is a continuum each life giving birth to the next. In humans, the woman’s egg is alive as it moves through her body to the place where the living male sperm can contact her. Did you know that she selects the sperm that will join with her to make another living being? Many sperm make contact with her, but her shell is hard until her chosen “other” makes contact and it softens so that he may enter.

        • Robert Smith

          Posted: “So the abortion issue is not really a party issue; it is a fundamental religious issue.”

          Yup, and that’s why it should be left up to each woman.

          Our government should NOT cater to any religious group.

          Rob

      • http://personallibertydigest gunner689

        [offensive post removed]

        • Jay

          gunner689, I hear ya!

      • Bob from Calif

        Doesn’t the person that is being aborted deserve some kind of right, even if it is only a three day waiting period. Eddie you are lucky that your mother didn’t pull you apart and throw you into a trash heap.

        • Robert Smith

          Rights for the baaaaaaybe? Why? Does an intruder have any rights in your home? What if they demand you supply all their needs for nine months?

          Quite frankly I wouldn’t offer such an intruder an insurance policy because I’m sure that most of the right wingers around here would feel enetitled to shoot them if they felt any threat at all.

          BTW, an acorn isn’t a tree. And from that I’ll bet you can figure out that a fetus isn’t a babe.

          Rob

          • iamone3

            God grant me patience. Rob, according to science life begins at conception and in the case of human beings that would be a human life. Try to grasp onto this basic truth.

          • Thamera

            You are a disgusting excuse for a human being Robert S. A fetus isn’t a parasite that burrows into your skin without your knowledge but then you know that. You are just an ick.

          • Jay

            Thamera, he’s trying to goad you. It’s obvious he hates the human race. Don’t react to his words so much as read between the lines. Its obvious Robert was never treated like a human being and therefore despises human beings, especially the defenceless, which leads me to conclude, someone hated and despised him when he was a defenceless child. You should pity him, not hate him!

          • Robert Smith

            From Tharma: ” A fetus isn’t a parasite that burrows into your skin without your knowledge but then you know that.”

            A guest invited to a party at your house isn’t a mystery either, but if they decide to stay for 9 months I’m sure you would be upset.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            From Jay: “Thamera, he’s trying to goad you. It’s obvious he hates the human race.”

            Quit making stuff up Jay. Looks to me like you are one of the flock.

            In the case of religion I see that as: No matter how good the sheppard the sheep still get sheered or eaten.

            BTW, I like the human race. I like it enough that I think each individual should make their own decisions.

            Why do you attempt to run the lives of others and enslave them to your beliefs?

            Rob

          • GregS

            Robert Smith says:

            “BTW, an acorn isn’t a tree. And from that I’ll bet you can figure out that a fetus isn’t a babe.”

            Actually, Robert, your acorn-tree analogy thing is really all screwed up! The fact is that many (if not most) pregnant women have interchangeably used the word “baby” to describe their unborn child at some time during their pregnancy. You clearly can’t do that with an acorn and a tree, because the tree is the adult version of the oak plant. The baby is NOT the adult version of the human. Therefore, your analogy is quite invalid.

            Furthermore, if you check the definition of “baby” in the American Heritage Dictionary, you’ll find that it can be an “unborn child” or a “fetus.”

          • Robert Smith

            From Imone: ” Rob, according to science life begins at conception ”

            Then that makes your god the king of abortionists.

            Miscarriages, particularly early in pregnancy are very common. Some women don’t even know they were pregnant. They simply have a heavier than normal flow.

            So, if your god is the king of abortionists it must be OK for man to do the same. After all, consider that it is alleged that we are all in the image of that brutal far right christian god we are obligated to perform abortions.

            Rob

          • pete

            Hey Robert !

            If you “play” then you gotta “pay” ! That’s just reality ….

          • eyeswideopen

            Pete, I am sure all those women who are raped, where not in the game to play. How many of you men would like to get raped and then have to bear the burden of caring for that child for 20 yrs? Some women can’t emotionally handle that kind of situation. Hell, even Palin, who wasn’t raped, didn’t know if she could embrace a child with special needs. Have you ever looked at the statics on abortion? Guess what Christian women are getting them!!

          • GregS

            eyeswideopen says:

            “Guess what Christian women are getting them!!”

            Eyes, you seem to be obsessed with Christians getting abortions, because you repeatedly keep bringing this up in these forums! Abortion is murder, regardless of WHO gets one! What part of that don’t you understand???

            eyeswideopen says:

            “…I am sure all those women who are raped, where not in the game to play. How many of you men would like to get raped and then have to bear the burden of caring for that child for 20 yrs?”

            Were we even talking about rape in this thread??? The answer is a resounding NO!!!

            Furthermore, what are you talking about, when you say “…all those women who are raped…?” Are you implying that most women who get abortions have been raped??? If so, where are your statistics on this???

            It’s a well-known fact that less than a half of one percent of all rapes end up in pregnancies.

            Most laws concerning abortion include rape as an exception.

            In summary: what was the point in your post???

      • Robert Smith

        From Eddie: “Now we have another Republican pushing the envelope and interfering with a woman’s life and emotions.”

        And just how anyone can discuss “freedom” and advocate a woman change her whole life because of their religion is something I’ve never understood.

        How can they deny the woman’s judgement?

        Further, if it is a “baby” then the woman has even more rights. For example, if someone comes to their house for a party and STAYS and DEMANDS that you as the host must support 100% of their needs for the next nine months I’ll bet they would be infuriated. I presume they would call the law, but if there was any threat whatsoever I’ll bet their inclination would be to shoot them and solve the problem. Why don’t women have the same right?

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          robert,
          All throughout history women that are pregnant have been described as with child, not with fetus, and sure as hell not with acorn!!! Go write your check, son!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Awww Joe…

            Then a tree is “with tree” when the acorn falls.

            And again, quit lying about that “support” thing.

            Rob

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            JoeH,Jana, and Jana,

            If a woman tries to save her husband from a beating by grabbing the other man’s private parts to lift him off her husband, then both her hands must get cut off: Deuteronomy 25:11-12 “And in case men struggle together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his private (the other man’s groin), she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow.”

        • Thamera

          ah yes, Robert you are so intellectual aren’t you. I can see why you keep choosing to compare human life with a tree: you are certainly as dense as one!

          • Robert Smith

            Aww Thamera…

            Insults rather than issues.

            Oh well, I’m used to it.

            When you post an actual act I might pay attention.

            Meanwhile I watch just how bankrupt the right is.

            Rob

          • Jana

            Rob,
            You are right, you are used to it. You throw enough of em.

          • Robert Smith

            Looks to me like Jana got lost in a revalving door because all she is inclined to do on this forum is inslut others rather than deal with the issue.

            BTW, how can you call yourself “pro-life” and deny anyone health care?

            Rob

          • Jana

            Obnoxious, I mean Robert,

            No, I did not get caught in any revalving or revolving door. That is you, while you promote the one you serve. You are a good little servant.

        • pete

          Hey Robert,

          Doesn’t the man benefit financially because his woman got an abortion ? Isn’t that the real reason why you would get a woman pregnant, and then kill her baby, because you want to “play” (have sex) but don’t want to “pay” (support the baby) …

      • iamone3

        Eddie, Both Democrats & Republicans are pro-life. Appreciation for life crosses the political boundaries.

        • Robert Smith

          If you are so “pro-life” why don’t you support universal health care?

          Rob

          • iamone3

            The health care forced upon everyone is wrong because it is forced.

          • Jay

            Robert, are you so pro abortion that you support murder?

          • Robert Smith

            Quit lying Jay. I do not support “murder,” a LEGAL term.

            I support self defense, I can support a just war, I can support an execution after due process, and I can support abortion. None are “murder” in the eyes of the law.

            Rob

          • skip

            Exactly – what I can see from all this is that you can force a woman to proceed and complete a pregnancy, but once the child is born, the poor child is on its own – no provision for health care, for preventive services, for vaccinations, for subsequent education, etc. What a collection of hypocrites are bundled up in this collection of nonsensical, uncaring, rather vicious statements. “Let them be born – then we can really make life a succession of miseries for them.”

            I have never seen such a collection of people really not giving a damn about their fellow persons. From the nature of the comments, statements, spelling, nasty statements, and the like, there is not much chance that these comments come from CEO’s, wealthy masters of industry, and the like, but rather from people who are really struggling economically. And the positions you take would make sure that you will be taken back to the stone age, courtesy of the influence of the Koch Brothers and their ilk who are financially supporting and inciting a lot of this nonsense and controversy. Our government is far from perfect, but it is a damnsight better than the Kochs, Wall Street, and their fellow travellers.

          • eyeswideopen

            Skip, nice observations.

    • iamone3

      Doc, Those who are on death row for committing horrible crimes have a much longer waiting period. What`s 3 days when deciding the death of someone. Would you want more or less for yourself?

      • Thamera

        Excellent point, but if we are just trees like Robert S. would like us to believe then why bother? Just chop them down! Right Robert?

    • Jay

      Ditto Doc, that’s just plain common sense. Apparently, common sense is not so common!

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      JeffH,

      I meant Joy.

  • bob wire

    Well, as I understand it, that’s kind of standard anyway. ~ I’m getting the impression some seem to think abortions are treated much like a three minute oil change , which is totally absurd.

    • Thamera

      Really Bob? Do you have a lot of experience in this area?

      • bob wire

        I have enough to know what I’m taking about, and you?

        • Thamera

          I think it would be very safe to say without any kind of a stretch that yes, I do – including that I am a woman and you are a man.

          • eyeswideopen

            Thamera, why do you want to force your beliefs on others? Fine you don’t believe in abortions, don’t get one. However why should you be able to force your opinions on others? Follow your beliefs and leave the others to judgement with theirs. God is the final judge, not you and the republican party. This is the reason why our founding fathers didn’t create a national religion. Your beliefs hold no more sway because you are a Christian, than those who hold different beliefs.

    • Jay

      You’re right Bob, its not only absurd, its murder!

      • Robert Smith

        Actually Jay, abortion is mostly legal. Quit lying about it being “murder.”

        Rob

        • Jana

          As I said before, those who call others liars as you have done soooooo many times Robert, are usually liars themselves. You throw that word around, so it probably fits.

          • Robert Smith

            Jana claims: ” You throw that word around, so it probably fits.”

            Nope. I quote the lie, and I show why it is a lie.

            For example samurai often calls folks “morons.” The FACT is that he is lying. Anyone who can put sentences together for this forum, who can navigate around a computer well enough to post here, etc. is NOT a moron.

            Thus samurai is a liar.

            Rob

          • Jana

            Hmmmm,
            so far just up to this point 6 posts using the L word liars, Lying, etc.

          • Jana

            In fact, I stopped counting at 19 seperate posts about lying coming from Robert. A person that slings that much around is the one who is obsessed with the act of lying and does it himself.
            Enough said.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            go back to elementary school and learn the difference between asking a question and making a statement. Jay asked you a question, asking you a question is NOT lying!!!

  • Andrew Eppink

    At least someone’s trying to stem the horrendous slaughter in which we’ve been engaged for so very long now, behavior which is so obviously the source of the compounding litany of social ills we’ve likewise suffered for so long. It was overt bs on the part of the legal profession – the judiciary (nothing new there unfortunately) – and, by now, on the parts of so many people generally which has brought us to our current sorry state. There are obvious, horrific consequences attached to turning away from God to the extent that we have – abortion, the sorry and catastrophic embracing of ‘gay’ behavior between and among men, euthanasia… The whole corrupt and catastrophic lib agenda. We better wake up.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Andrew… Well said! Hopefully any decisions made by women to murder their babies will be thought about and more babies will be saved.

      • Charles

        And I thought you were all libertarians!!

      • bob wire

        I’m surly not against such a law Robin, but do you truly believe such a law is required for such a decision to be seriously deliberated by any mother, father or family?

        • Thamera

          Your simple minded question suggests that you in fact do not have any intimate knowledge of the subject matter bob w.

        • http://deleted Claire

          If people would conduct themselves with common sense, decency and concern for the well-being of all human life, there would be no need for such a law.

        • Jay

          Yes Bob, we do!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Robin,
        i finally have reason to be proud of Ohio!! They are trying to pass a law that bans all abortions at the first medically indicated heartbeat!!!

        • bob wire

          So Joe ! you are saying that the government “needs” to be involved ?

          while you suggest that government IS” the problem and too much into American family life.

          explain yourself please.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            bob wire,
            Are you really that foolish??? the government has always been involved in prosecuting MURDER!!! It is one of their jobs already!!

          • Thamera

            How about this: Can you explain why there was such a rush to support Libya but no such consideration given to an unborn child???

          • Jay

            bob wire, you are truly as dense as they come!

          • http://deleted Claire

            All the current trials and tribulations–they have been going on for years in one way or another, and now everything is is at the forefront. It is sad that people didn’t raise hell way back when before it all got out of hand, myself included.

          • Jay

            Claire, people have always raised hell and about many a issues, even back then!

          • http://deleted Claire

            Jay–Perhaps, but not to the extent that is being done now.

          • Robert Smith

            From Claire: “It is sad that people didn’t raise hell way back when before it all got out of hand”

            What hell that was raised was about the AMA wanting to consoladate the power of doctors. They wanted to get midwives out of the picture and they used the government to stop abortion. Further, women were dying because those doctors didn’t even wash their hands before going inside women. No wonder with all that death and yammering about “health” issues abortion was made illegal at that time. Religion had little to do with it. It was simply an abuse of government that made it illegal.

            And it appears that religious interests quoting their own evil god are once again following the path of abusing government to abuse women.

            Rob

          • http://deleted Claire

            Robert Smith– To begin with, I will never argue about religion. I believe in God and that is my own personal preference and my own business, not anyone elses’. I judge no one, I do not pretend to know it all, nor do I force my beliefs on anyone else. If someone does not agree with me, so be it. I do not always agree with them either. I don’t walk on water, I am not perfect but neither is anyone else. Sometimes a person is not as smart as they think they are. I will not call anyone names just because I do not agree with them. Nor do I appreciate anyone calling me names. That said, the issue of abortion does not appeal to me. It never has. I believe the moment of conception has created a life. A life I would not terminate unless some terrible health issue/rape/incest was involved in the pregnancy.
            I agree with your comment concerning the lack of cleanliness and midwives, but remember years and years ago in some instances this was all that was available. And for the past few years a lot of people have contracted staph infections in hospitals–now we have the “superbug” that is becoming rampant in hospitals. My husband has to have surgery in May and I am highly concerned. With everything he has been through I do not necessarily trust doctors or hospitals much. He is the victim of two botched surgeries that has led to the loss of his kidneys. I will say this–the vets at the Univ. of Illinois that have taken care of some of my dogs have better hygiene than some human doctors/nurses. I always tell my husband, “when I get sick” take me to the Univ. of Illinois small animal clinic.

          • bob wire

            Joe, being a war vet, you might say that I’m aware of government sponsored killing in an up close and personal sort of way but I thought we were discussing pro-choice and a woman’s right to have final say over matters of her body that supersede the rights of the unborn to various degrees.

            I suppose it’s nice to get all touchy/feel’ly to matters of interfering with life’s process and look at killing in the third person, willing to pick and choice which party you might favor today.

            I can’t help but think the overriding concern would be between the parties with a “vested interest” in the matter.

            That the unborn has no voice, it’s good that some are noble enough to rise up and speak for them. This is as we might hope it to be.

            That a child might come into this world unwanted and having no place, no support is even a worst fate to ponder.

            There is no good answers to this quandary that beguiles us.

            It’s a matter of church and family and not government in my eyes and requires address in a proactive fashion.

            and Jay, what am I to do with you? Why much you insist on calling people names? Is it impossible from you to do? This forum is for grown ups, you need to conduct yourself like one or dismiss yourself until you have acquired some wit about yourself.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            bob,
            you are no more familiar than I am after eighteen months in the same war so quit preaching to the choir!!

          • libertytrain

            Claire – good response to rob – and of course, I agree with you -

      • eyeswideopen

        Robin, who will support these unwanted babies? You? Laughing out loud. All those women who were going to be denied birth control from Planned Parenthood, (because of people like you) and ended up pregant, would be having children that they didn’t want. Hence the word CONTROL, used with the word Birth. You radical right wingers, want the whites to reproduce without thought and the means to support those children, because you are so afraid that the white population is reducing in size. Too late, the Hispanics are coming and soon the whites will feel what it is like to be discriminated against.
        If you looked at the people in prision, would you be able to understand that most of the murders, rapists and hienous criminals all had some childhood abuse… unwanted and unloved children become monsters, causing terrible grief for society. How many more do you want?

    • Robert Smith

      From Andrew: “the sorry and catastrophic embracing of ‘gay’ behavior”

      Gays, particularly gay men, rarely have abortions. MOF they are most likley to adopt and give those lucky kids excellent homes.

      BTW, it’s conclusive that being gay does not transfer to to adopted kids anymore than heterosexuality transfers. Ask Dick Chaney about that one.

      While you are at it why don’t you ask Sarah P. why HER kid had a kid. Apparently Sarah failed as a parent.

      Rob

      • Jana

        Robert,
        Are you telling us you are gay?

        • Robert Smith

          I’m not gay but I support many of their goals towards equality.

          I’m not a woman but I support their drive towards equality.

          I’m not black but I support equality for them.

          I’m not a junkie but I support removal of laws against pot and other recreational drugs.

          I’m not a neo-Republican but I support their right to free speech so everyone can see just how nuts they are.

          I’m also pro-choice on guns for citizens not convicted of a violent felony and after a period of time that they, through due process” can get their gun rights back. After a period of time I think they should get their voting rights back through due process that can show a clean record since their release, etc.

          Rob

          • Thamera

            Robert, the only thing you are showing is the lack of gray matter between your ears. You champion equality eh but only for those that can support themselves, is that it?

          • Robert Smith

            No thelma, I support equality for everyone. Why would you imply such a lie?

            Rob

        • Jay

          Yes Jana, that’s exactly what he is saying, and his quick denial of it indicates he’s rather ashamed of it, as he should be!!!

          • Jana

            Jay,
            I think so too.

          • Robert Smith

            More bashing rather than issues. Typical of the religious reich.

            BTW, check on the first and second Reichs that were so inspirational to the third. They were religiously inspired.

            Rob

          • Jana

            Robert,
            You are the king of all bashers.

        • JeffH

          Jana, do not be fooled by Robert’s denial of being gay. I’ve seen enough of his past posts to realize he is gay. Personally, I don’t care one way or another. I’m just sayin…

          • Robert Smith

            Awwww JeffH…

            I’ve told you many times I’m not gay. And you continue to lie about it.

            Why don’t you give us some “gay” quotes of the stuff I’ve posted to prove it.

            You can’t because you made it up.

            Rob

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Robert,

            JeffH lives with his boy friend.Get the picture?

          • Jana

            Coal,
            Actually that sounds more like you!

  • Deanna

    What? Planned Parenthood is filing a lawsuit against this bill – just because it delays an abortion by three days? Are they afraid women will change their minds and let their babies live? You can’t help but wonder why they’re so determined to slaughter babies…

    • Eddie47d

      More attacks against Planned Parenthood as usual. They also do counseling if requested (you know,choice and personal responsibility).Let the woman make that choice and if she is married, with her husband.Anti-government advocates are always wanting more government interference. Will you personally pay for these women’s expenses while she is pregnant,pre-natal care,hospital care. Oh wait! They don’t have healthcare and can’t afford it and you go out of your way to make it unaffordable or simply unavailable. Women with the help of men have been getting pregnant since the beginning of time and no one can stop all pregnancies. There are circumstances beyond any one’s control and that should be reflected in making a decision.A women knows she is pregnant and makes her decision long before a 3 day waiting period. These legislators are adding insult to injury and this puts a greater burden on whether to give birth or not especially if they have to travel so far and wait those 3 days.

      • Robert Smith

        Eddie posted: ” Women with the help of men have been getting pregnant since the beginning of time…”

        I seem to remember a couple of thousand years ago a girl (maybe 13 or 14) was walking with her future husband and got knocked up by some guy called “God.” They weren’t married. I suspect that guy named god raped her. Joe was a mench and married her anyhow.

        BTW, if she was a virgin when she got pregnant how did she remain so when her son, Jesus, came out? Quite frankly I just don’t believe it. The evidence is just too strong against it.

        Rob

        • Jana

          Robert S,
          I have good news for you. You don’t have to believe it.

          • Robert Smith

            But Jana, the right wing want’s me to live the same way they do by forcing their laws upon America.

            Rob

          • Jana

            No Robert, all they want you to do is act like a decent human being. It seems you are the ones trying to force everyone to act like you want, pay for what you want paid for, and never have to take personal responsibility for anything. Share the wealth.

          • Thamera

            Exactly Jana…decency seems to be a foreign concept to Robert. Maybe it’s because he has a guilty conscious. Just sayn.

    • s c

      Deanna, here is what is needed to ‘connect the dots.’ Margaret Sanger . . . Adolf Hitler . . . Planned nonParenthood. Yes, it’s that simple. Eugenics is the “polite” term.
      However, until everyone learns it and understands the ramifications, abortion will remain just another easy way to manipulate people, make money and get elected and re-elected.

      • Bob from Calif

        Yes SC thanks for your insight. The Eugenics project of Sanger and Hitler is still alive and well. The Libs that are backing choice really need to do some research and learn who and what they are really investing in. The majority of planned parenthood clinics are in areas that have high concentrations of minorities. To rid the planet of what Sanger thought of as inferiors.

        • Eddie47d

          A company isn’t going to build a business in a neighborhood where their products won’t sell. Planned Parenthood does many services and try to locate where their service is needed. That is called customer service so clients or customers don’t have as far to go. In my state they have small clinics in rural communities because they can’t afford to travel those many miles to the bigger cities. Has nothing to do with eugenics or your fried Hitler. Some of you stoop to new low’s in telling others what to do in their personal lives.

          • http://deleted Claire

            Years and years ago, when Planned Parenthood became into being, it was for a good cause. Now they are like a lot of the other organizations, they became “impregnated” with people that have no scruples.

        • JeffH

          Bill Gates supports eugenics also.

          • Robert Smith

            Realy Jeff…

            Why are you lying again. Certainly Gates supports PP.

            But PP is for CHOICE. That is NOT Eugenics.

            But forcing any woman to carry for 9 months is slavery. Why don’t you take responsibility for your position?

            Rob

          • Jay

            That’s correct JeffH, in fact, he has donated thirty billion dollars to the UN towards solving the overpopulation myth! Just typical of the left wackos to fix a problem that doesn’t exist

      • Robert Smith

        From sc: “here is what is needed to ‘connect the dots.’”

        Hitler was pro abortions to the point where they were forced upon women. Sanger and PP both advocate CHOICE. Big difference.

        The proper comparison is FORCING wome to remain pregnant, which Hitler also did. That is what you clearly advocate.

        Choice: PP & Sanger
        No Choice: Hitler and the extreme right.

        Rob

        • Jana

          Robert S.,
          No matter what history claims, such as Hitler was far right, it does not mean the same in today’s standards. In todays standards he would be considered and is considered by most intelligent people, to be a very radical leftist nut case.

          • Robert Smith

            Hi Jana,

            I agree.

            But maybe you should check out what the first and second reichs were.

            Rob

          • Jana

            Robert,
            Why would I want to check them out?

        • Thamera

          Umm yah, Hitler was against human life of all ages Robert. Any that he didn’t like or agree with. You truly are a sick acorn. LOL

    • Anita

      Here is what it says the bill will do “it will help ensure that abortions are voluntary, uncoerced and informed.”
      I am sure that most of you pro-abortion people have never sat outside an abortion clinic and watched the young girls literally being dragged into the clinic by “boyfriends” and family members, and then rushed inside by the employees. This is NOT choice.

      I am also sure that you have no real understanding of what happens to the baby, how it feels pain. Or else you don’t even care.

      I believe in choice, but the CHOICE is to have protected or unprotected sex, to have sex in or out of marriage, not whether or not to kill your child.

      3 days is nothing, but it might give some young girl a real understanding of what she is doing. THEN and only then can she really make an “informed” decision. As far as the counseling. Yeah, right, been there as a married woman and the question was, “So, are you happy about this? Do you want this baby?” At the time I couldn’t figure out why they asked that, and then later I realized what was going on. Never went back there again.

      • Jana

        Anita,
        You are so very right. The responsibility still rests on the shoulders of the woman. She is the one who will get pregnant, not the male. She is the one who will have to have this surgery (abortion) and feel the guilt for the rest of her life if she has a moral consience, not the male.
        If these young women would just realize that the reason they aren’t getting married and having good decent families is because they are giving away the product before the contract is signed.
        If done correctly, a woman has more power in a relationship before she is married. She sets the standards. She lets it be known what she will or will not accept, and if her boyfriend cares about her, he will honor this. If not, then she knows she hasn’t found Mr. Right yet and should move on.
        Our young women are coming across as very cheap merchandise. How very sad to promote themselves in this manner.

        • Carlucci

          I absolutely agree with you, Jana. My beautiful niece (age 28) is living with her “fiance”. I don’t call him that because he has not given her a ring. He keeps putting it off and she keeps making excuses for him. I have a weird feeling that he is going to do something really terrible like meet some flight attendant (he travels all the time), and drop my niece like a hot potato.

          I just wish she knew just how powerful a woman can be in a relationship. You are right – not setting ground rules and moving in with a guy is the worst possible mistake that young women can make.
          It’s the old “why buy the cow” story…

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Carlucci,
            From the sounds of the guy, what would be so terrible about him meeting a flight attendant and leaving her??? Sounds like it would be a good thing to me!! I do feel bad for her, but it might be the best thing for her!!

          • Carlucci

            Joe, I see what you are saying. In the long run, it probably would be a good thing, as his true colors would show.

            I just wish my niece had discernment and sense enough to see what is going on. She was raised in a Christian family, but her parents have chosen to be ostriches about her current living arrangement, saying stuff like “that’s what young people do now”, and “she’s old enough to make her own decisions and we can’t do anything about it anyway”.

            It’s none of my business, but I did get to voice an opinion about him when asked recently. I just said I thought her intended was a little rough around the edges. My youngest sister and her kids were far more vocal – they called him a “d-lord”.

        • bob wire

          The world must be coming to an end , I agree with Jana!

          oh dear! what’s this world coming too?

          • Jana

            well bob,
            I have agreed with you on a couple of things too, and I thought the same thing. LOL

      • Thamera

        Such a good point Anita. When you are in the throes of an emotional issue like an unplanned pregnancy it is very hard to think ahead of the long term implication of your decisions and the impact it will have on your own life as well as the life of your unborn child. Women in this situation need all the support, love and information available to them to help them remove all the emotions that surround you at that moment. Waiting three days to save you a life time of pain and regret seems very reasonable. Not to mention that we are talking about the potential life of another human being.

      • karolyn

        “I am sure that most of you pro-abortion people have never sat outside an abortion clinic and watched the young girls literally being dragged into the clinic by “boyfriends” and family members, and then rushed inside by the employees. This is NOT choice” You have seen this? Odd that I’ve never seen that, and I used to pass an abortion clinic every day going back and forth to work. The only thing that caught my eye once a week were the people across the street with their rosaries. Were you one of them?

        • bob wire

          It’s a scary thing to go thru Karolyn!

          It greatly upsets a woman to go though it and they do carry it for a very long time, maybe forever.

          Not being a woman or lived forever. I’m left to guess.

          • Karolyn

            bob – You will NEVER know. But I have to say I have known numerous women, quite intimately, who have had abortions. My sister-in-law had several; and came through just fine. The women I knew lived their lives normally and happily like anybody else.

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            Who paid for her several abortions? Sounds like she didn’t learn much, and you make her sound heartless as well as you are making yourself sound heartless.

          • libertytrain

            Jana – I’m with you. “Sister-in-law had several abortions” – what an idiot she has to be. I wonder if anyone told her what was causing the babies and if she had a lick of intelligence she could have gotten her tubes tied. I’d be embarrassed and ashamed to be bragging about someone as ludicrous as that. And I would have explained to her the birds and bees.

          • Jana

            libertytrain,
            EXACTLY

          • Jay

            Karolyn, you’re sister in law had several? Is she afflicted with a learning disability?

          • http://deleted Claire

            Several abortions and lived wonderful lives? Ye gods, I could not do that. I would be consumed with guilt, I honestly would feel like a murderer. But that is just me.

      • Robert Smith

        Anita says: “I am sure that most of you pro-abortion people have never sat outside an abortion clinic and watched the young girls literally being dragged into the clinic by “boyfriends” and family members, and then rushed inside by the employees.”

        That appears to be a lie. Why didn’t you record it on a cell phone, camera, or some other device? I’m sure it would be a #1 hit on the right wing must see videos. I’m sure nobody has it because it didn’t happen.

        Rob

        • bob wire

          let us “frame” it correctly Robert, it’s “pro choice” meaning that a woman has final say over her body, ~ the “host” of life (“woman” and not you)) accepts the final burden. ~ Make sense to you?

          • Thamera

            Thank you Bob. I really don’t think Robert made it past the “acorn” stage in life.

          • JeffH

            bob, I’m in total agreement with you there.

        • Thamera

          Like I said, you are a complete Ick with a guilty conscious that I am now sure of.

          • Thamera

            Robert that is

    • Jenelle

      It’s because, like many “medical” procedures, there is big money involved. It is financially profitable.

      • Robert Smith

        It’s way cheaper than having a welfare kid on the rolls.

        Why don’t you offer to PAY for the kids born that you advocate so pasionately for?

        Ohhhhh, I get it! Conception to birth and they you don’t care anymore.

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          hey robert,
          Need a pen????

    • Jay

      JoAnne, there is no restraining there bloodlust. This organization despises the human race and disguise their hatred of God and his image, man, behind their so called concerns for the rights of the woman. Atheism can only give birth to atheistic, human hating and bloodthirsty mongrels!!!

    • Robert Smith

      From Deanna: ” Are they afraid women will change their minds and let their babies live?”

      No, common sense dictates that when women have to return, sometimes from hundreds of miles away, it is a waste of time and an insult to women that they are treated as if they don’t know what they are doing.

      Why don’t you respect the choice any individual woman makes? Are you smarter than she is (guaranteed 1/2 of women, and men, are below average), are you more “moral” than she is? If that’s the case it is only within your own religion or value system, or are you a slave to the dictates to some biship out there?

      Why are you “better” than she is in your own mind? What gives YOU the right to make decisions for another in America? Doesn’t the extreme right support people taking responsibility for their own decisions?

      Rob

  • Andrew Eppink

    And Doc Sarvis (above – March 25, 2011, 7:25 am) is obviously right in what he says. As guilty as the pregnant ‘Mothers’ are who so very often so callously kill their children in abortion are, the irresponsibility of the pleasure seeking and and evil men who usually initiate the behavior is orders of magnitude worse.

    • Robert Smith

      If sex is so bad why did your god make it feel so good?

      Maybe he is “testing” them and YOU shouldn’t mess, lest you be judged yourself. Who are YOU to interfear with your god’s will?

      Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        robert,
        what do you base that on? I mean, you don’t believe, you say he doesn’t exist, you say it’s a fairy tale so how would YOU make a learned statememt at all??? Of course, by now most here KNOW you don’t make “learned” statements about anything!! you just open your little pea sized brain and spew!!

        • Robert Smith

          Judge not for you will be judged yourself.

          Oh, and I consider the pregnancy of Mary to have been rape. Further, why did Joe support her rather than your god?

          Rob

          • Jana

            Wow, a professed non Christian trying and misuing God’s word. That says it all. You obriously have NO concept as to what it means to judge. You are too funny!
            As far as what you consider rape is irrelevant.
            This conception that you are alluding to, was done with her permission after the Angel explained to her what and why.
            Maybe you had better stick to something you know about, if you ever find out what that is.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jana,
            Like I said, he opens his little pea sized brain and SPEWS!!!!

          • Robert Smith

            From Jana: “This conception that you are alluding to, was done with her permission after the Angel explained to her what and why.”

            Regardless of how it was “explained” to Mary by today’s standards it was still rape. She was below any age of consent (at age 13 or 14) in any state in America.

            Why do you think a kid can give “permission?”

            Rob

          • Jana

            Robert,
            It was not under the age of consent back then.

        • Thamera

          Using his own analogy: He’s the little acorn that never grew into a tree. LMAO Robert. You can rant and rail all you want, it isn’t going to make you feel any better about yourself, little acorn.

        • Jay

          Joe H, robert is a by product of “moral relativism”, which is a byproduct of atheism that eventually leads to spiritual syphilis and ultimately death. The man is on death row and does not know it! Pity him, Joe H, pity him, don’t hate him, protect yourself from his disease!

          • Jana

            Dead man walking, and unfortuantely talking.

          • Jay

            A double whammy!

          • Robert Smith

            You can’t even prove your god is real.

            I’m not afraid of St. Nick, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. Why should I be afraid of your god?

            Can you prove there is an “after life?” Has anyone come back? Paleeze don’t quote that bible. I consider it to be fiction just like all other holy books.

            Rob

          • Jana

            Robert,
            We don’t have to prove anything to you. In fact it does no good to even talk to you because you go around and around in circles, like you are sooooo confused. All you are doing is trying to be an agitator.
            You work for your father who is the father of liars. Its your ship, you sail it like you want. Be as obnoxious as you want to be and be a lonely and sad LITTLE old man.

          • Jay

            Robert, can you prove God is not real?

  • Oh Dear

    A truly excellent idea, let’s have even more unwanted babies born to fill the world with consume-ers !
    I’ve a good idea – let’s make those pro-lifers and their supporters look after and pay for the whole of the upbringing of all those unwanted babies.
    It is very, very stupid to make people have children they do not want.

    • Concerned Mom

      How about these stupid people think BEFORE they have sex and unintentionally make a baby, a human being!! This is a life and should be treated as such!! WHY is it that bird nesting grounds and other various animals have more protections than unborn babies????

      THE CHOICE COMES BEFORE YOU HAVE SEX!!!!!!!

      • Oh Dear

        I’m afraid that Nature hasn’t designed most people to think very much at all when it comes to procreation.
        I don’t think it’s very pleasant to have an abortion so I don’t think people do it without thinking about it.
        It’s THEIR choice and if YOU want to take that choice away from them the YOU should be prepared to pay, literally, for the ensuing consequences.
        “This is a life and should be treated as such” – are you vegan then ?

        • Jana

          Oh Dear,

          You said,”I don’t think it’s very pleasant to have an abortion so I don’t think people do it without thinking about it.”

          I think you are right, you don’t think.

          • Oh Dear

            Jana, What you say makes no sense.
            Are you accusing me of not thinking ?

          • karolyn

            How clever, Jana. Take the focus away from the truth of her statement.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jana,
            now lady, you know you are expecting these progs to follow the two words that strike the most fear in their hearts, PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY!!! You know, like if you buy a car, you pay for it and don’t try finding a way to get out of it! Like if you run up a big bill on credit cards, you pay them off, you don’t look for ways out of it like bankruptcy!! YOU PAY YOUR OWN WAY IN LIFE WHETHER IT’S HARD OR NOT!!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Joe says: “YOU PAY YOUR OWN WAY IN LIFE WHETHER IT’S HARD OR NOT!!!!”

            Even if you are gonna die because you don’t have health care.

            How christian of you Joe.

            Rob

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Oh Dear… It is their choice and my tax dollars shouldn’t be paying for a choice when they decide that they made the wrong one.

          • Oh Dear

            Robin,
            And how exactly do your tax dollars pay ?
            It costs society far more in money and more in other ways for unwanted children than for abortion.

          • Robert Smith

            Really Robin?

            I don’t want to pay for the foolish wars Bush got us into.

            I don’t want to pay for censors.

            I don’t want to pay because some want to know what books I check out of libraries.

            Rob

          • Thamera

            Contrary to what you may believe Oh Dear, many people find abortion an abhorrent act and do not want to support it through their tax dollars. I think Jana may have been right…you do not think, at least not beyond your own bias and obvious contempt for humanity.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            Well I don’t like paying for the silly little war that your hero Nobama got us into either!!

      • Carlucci

        But what can you do now when the public school systems perpetuate the myth that it is perfectly okay for kids to have “safe” sex with whomever they want? What a crock.

        I grew up in the sixties and seventies. My parents were very strict. They regularly told me and my two sisters that kind of behavior was out of the question and they would not raise grandchildren. When I was in high school in the seventies, girls who got pregnant were kind of shunned. I found out when I was a senior that some of my friends had been having sex since they were sixteen and most were on the Pill. That was shocking to me, because I never wanted to do anything to disappoint my parents. I’ve always believed that having strict parents was the best form of birth control. Strict parents are probably now a thing of the past, especially if they allow their kids to attend public schools.

        • Robert Smith

          carlucci says: ” I’ve always believed that having strict parents was the best form of birth control.”

          Yup, I guess Sarah just ain’t very strict with Bristol.

          BTW, could Chaney’s daughter have been brought up better so she isn’t gay?

          Rob

          • Thamera

            And at this point Robert, I’m going to guess that you don’t have children.

          • Robert Smith

            Your guess is incorrect.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            In all truthfulness, if you DO have kids, I feel very sorry for them! their father places no value on kids, especially the unborn ones!! May God Bless them cause their father sure as hell won’t!!

        • http://deleted Claire

          I grew up in the late 50s. Back then a teenager had to “protect” their reputation. If a girl lived a “fast” life and “put out” she was considered to have a “bad” reputation, and it was worse if she got pregnant. The guys that acted the same way had bad reputations. Sounds corny, but this is the way it was. What a difference between the morals of today and back then.
          This subject reminds me of the time when I was about 8 years old, a girl brought several packs of condoms to school, we thought they were balloons, and we blew them up, in front of the teacher! She screamed at us “Where did you get those?” We really got in trouble and the teacher contacted our parents. I never will forget that episode. Heck, we didn’t know what they were! lol

        • Thamera

          then your kids must be perfect eh? Would never do anything wrong, make a mistake eh Robert? Or, they’ve severed all ties with you!

          • Jana

            Thamera,
            I feel sorry for his kids and pity any woman that would even think of being his wife. He is a dirty minded sick man.

      • karolyn

        But you can’t force them to think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Robert Smith

          Sarah and Brystol think!

          PROVEN: They had sex.

          Rob

      • Robert Smith

        posted: “How about these stupid people think BEFORE they have sex and unintentionally make a baby, a human being!!”

        Let’s ask Sarah Palun’s daughter about that one. Maybe she passed her own genes to her daughter. After all, Sarah is a well known breeder herself.

        Or maybe Sarah just isn’t bright enough to have taught Brystol anything about sex.

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          And maybe the liberal progs she had for teachers and councilors influenced her too much!! I wouldn’t like to start all over as a parent, but if it saved a child, I would gladly do it! I would raise my grandkids if needed. I happen to live like I believe, I love kids!

          • Robert Smith

            From Joe: “And maybe the liberal progs she had for teachers and councilors influenced her too much!!”

            Like those in Dover, PA? Remember they tried to convert the school plans so “creation” was the way “life” came about.

            Rob

        • libertytrain

          Rob you are so boring, so predictable. Is that the best you can do? Over and over and over again. Boring.

          • Robert Smith

            An insult rather than discussing the issue.

            So predictible from the extreme religious reich.

            BTW, look up the first and second reich before you go to the third.

            Rob

          • libertytrain

            I was not insulting you, just bored by you. You have written the same lines over and over and over again, you are not worthy of discussing anything with – you just insult people with vicious attacks, like a dictator. You have nothing worthwhile to bring to the conversation. Boring.

      • Robert Smith

        From “Mom”: “THE CHOICE COMES BEFORE YOU HAVE SEX!!!!!!!”

        Let’s talk to Brystol about that!

        Sarah failed. Or your god made sex so much fun it can’t be resisted. Or, Brystol just didn’t have any self control.

        What is it, Mom?

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          robert,
          but guess what?? their kids are still alive!!!! Their kids have value to them!! They didn’t take the easy way out!! They believe in personal responsibility!!!!!!

    • Sean

      Oh Dear Seriously that is your answer….kill them because you don’t want to spend a little money!! We are not talking about dolls or toys here that people are throwing away we are talking about a human life!!! Heck why stop at an unborn babies – should people start taking care of older kids that they don’t want as well?? I mean we pay for those kids in foster care and and let’s get rid of the adoption services. Oh Dear where do you draw the line? At what point do you stop killing. We gasp at Hitler and the horror that he caused but this country has killed 52 billion babies in the last decade.

      • Eddie47d

        Sean;Sometimes it does come down to money. Especially if a family already has 2 or 3 children and is already having a hard time taking care of them.We all scream about welfare but then force women to have more kids. Go figure! Why did you throw out the idea of killing older kids? (name one group in America who has advocated such a thing?) Adoption is also a choice and a wonderful one and those services aren’t going anywhere. Yet you suggested that they would be so that is also a little suspect in your comment. No 52 billion “babies” have been killed in America so your playing the Hitler card is way off base! So where do you Sean draw the line in your absurdity? Not pertaining to you but some on the right even suggest than all old people will be euthanized! No proof of that either but it sounds good to those who try and whip up trouble or extreme “facts” for their side.

        • Thamera

          Eddie: If a family is struggling with the children they have; wouldn’t the wise choice be to PREVENT a pregnancy in the first place? It isn’t hard and if you are that impoverished it is free. That is a very poor excuse in my book especially when there is a long line of people waiting to adopt as well a people that are willing to pay for a surrogate.

          • Robert Smith

            From Thamera: “wouldn’t the wise choice be to PREVENT a pregnancy in the first place?”

            Where do they find out about that? The church won’t tell them.

            I know! They can go to PP and get whatever they need to prevent pregnancy.

            But oops, the reich wing doesn’t want that either.

            So, where are women supposed to find out about birth control?

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Thamera,
            If they already have more kids than they can handle, then why don’t they get fixed? Him OR her!!

          • Thamera

            You are truly a pathetic little worm Robert. Just because you may not know how babies (I mean acorns) are made doesn’t mean the rest of the world doesn’t!

          • Thamera

            Exactly Joe. Maybe it takes too much effort? lol Idk. If you are like Robert then you are just sitting around waiting for a church to tell you what to do, I guess…

          • Jana

            Thamera,
            Sadly to say he serves a god alright, his name is Lucifer.

        • Sean

          Eddie my point about the older kids is not about anyone now killing an older child or that we should get rid of foster or adoption – How in the world do you get from my comments, that I think someone is killing older kids. My point to “Oh Dear” was why stop at killing “unwanted” kids in the “womb”. There are older kids all over this great country that are “unwanted” why not do something with them as well. If you kill one why not the other? Who are you or anyone else to make that distiction?? You are right adoption is a wonderful thing and one that can be used to take those “unwanted” kids if they don’t have money. Have someone adopt them rather than kill them. My question to you is how do you rationalize killing a baby in the womb to saving money?

          Eddie you are so right! I apologize for the confusion I miss represented the number I threw out. I exaggerated the number it is more like what is noted below.

          Abortion statistics are never specific, as the procedure is protected under the right to privacy laws.

          However, it has been estimated that 3,000 are done daily. If you multiply that by the number of years that aborion has been legal, you get a large number. If you’re curious, I guess you could multiply 3,000 x (years abortions has been legal) x 365 (to show the daysin those years) + 3,000 x a few days (for Leap Days).

          If you’re not satisfied with this answer (I’m not), check this out. The Alan Gutmacher Institute, a leading proponent of abortion on demand, claims that there have been more than 50 million abortions in the U.S. since Roe Vs. Wade.

          One is too many, after that number what does it matter whether it is 50 million or 52 billion??????

          • Robert Smith

            From Sean: “Have someone adopt them rather than kill them.”

            There are thousands of gay couples and single gays who want to adopt. Dan Goodman is one who uset to be active on Compuserve.

            But many from the right don’t want gay people to have equality.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            there are a lot of normal couples that would adopt but the government wants them to be high middle class to qualify! I knew a lady that would have loved to adopt and her and her husband couldn’t adopt because she was very hard of hearing! They were very loving people and I know first hand as they took care of me for about 5 years as a kid from about 11 to 15. I would have loved to have had them as my parents from birth.

      • Mac

        Where in hell did you get that figure of “52 billion in the last decade”? There weren’t that many live births, and certainly nowhere near that many abortions.

        • Sean

          Marc – you are right I was wrong I got my numbers mixed up! It was not that much. I apologize for any confusion See my comments to Eddie just above yours. So it is around 50 million since Roe v Wade (which is about 40 years).

          That makes it better!!

      • Robert Smith

        From Sean: “we are talking about a human life!!!”

        YOU might be but others don’t see it that way. An acorn (that can gestate itself BTW) is NOT a tree.

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        From Sean: “We are not talking about dolls or toys here that people are throwing away we are talking about a human life!!!”

        Not necessarily. An acorn is not a tree anymore than an egg is a chicken. Others clearly believe differently than you do Sean.

        More blather from Sean: “Heck why stop at an unborn babies – should people start taking care of older kids that they don’t want as well??”

        NO. It’s that simple, NO. The fact is that if you want to take care of a born kid you can. You can give it a bottle, change diapers, and generally bring it up. While it is inside the woman what is gestating is 100% dependant upon her. Since I imagine that you don’t want to support others under any circumstances why do YOU demand that she support another for 100% of their (if it is “human”) needs? Isn’t that slavery?

        (sigh) and there is more: “I mean we pay for those kids in foster care and and let’s get rid of the adoption services.”

        But the right doesn’t want to pay. Once it is born there is no health care, no welfare is desired, etc. The right has no use for spending money on anything except themselves. I see that as very selfish.

        Sean again: “Oh Dear where do you draw the line? At what point do you stop killing.{”

        Easy. At birth. Then there is no question that another can take care of it.

        “We gasp at Hitler”

        I do because he would force women carring the “right” kind of aerian kind of kid to remain pregnant. He gave them no choice.

        “and the horror that he caused but this country has killed 52 billion babies in the last decade.”

        That’s a lie.

        Rob

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Oh Dear… How about sterilization for boys and girls as soon as they reach puberty? No more unwanted babies, ever! At least not because of them!

    • Jenelle

      I, personally, would love to adopt, but the “fess” are too high. Also, many people in United States spend years on adoption waiting lists – waiting to adopt a baby. I know of a couple, years ago, that spent 15 years on a waiting list. Their name never came up, but they were able to have a private adoption because they met someone who was wanting to give up their soon to be born child. Even so, the court fees alone were $5000. That court cost of $5000 occurred years ago. It’s like purchasing a child. It shouldn’t be that way.

      • Jenelle

        My first sentence has a misspelled word. The word should be “fees.” not “fess.”

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Jenelle,
          I knew what you meant!!

    • Jay

      Oh Dear, Oh my goodness gracious, you sound like a human hating, hideous troll. Were you not supported and cared for at some point in your life? Then why would you or any other ungrateful shlob deny the same for the unborn, you selfish, self cent-erred, self-righteous vermin? You have been pickled and marinated in the atheistic slop for far to long it seems.Your hatred for the human race is undeniable. You ought to be ashamed of yourself, but that would require a conscience!!!

      • Robert Smith

        Looks like projecton to me.

        Why else would someone try to live the lives of others? Is their own as a “follower” so sad?

        Rob

  • James

    The reason for the Roe v. Wade decision was the 14th Amendment’s “All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” Rights are accorded to citizens and until one is born here s/he isn’t a citizen and has no rights.
    Remove that or reword it and the law could be changed. If it read “All persons conceived by citizens of the United States are citizens…etc.” then a fetus would have rights and no State could then deprive that person of life, liberty, or property nor deny that person the equal protection of the laws.

    • Sean

      James unfortunatley your reasoning has one major flaw in it and also shows the hipocracy of the law and our government. So if a person goes and kills a women that is pregnant and her the baby both die, that person could and would be tried for a double homicide. So if the baby is wanted then it is a citizen and if it is not wanted it is not a citizen?? Yea – that makes complete sense to me???

      James go read up on Melissa Ohden and tell me after you read her story how this makes it all alright!!

      The Lord gave me this message:

      “I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations.”

      • James

        Sean, Yes, if the 14th Amendment is so-changed, killing a pregnant woman would be a double homocide, the fetus would be a ‘person’ just like its mother. Whether the fetus is wanted or not, would be beside that point. If an expectant mother aborts her own baby, it would be murder, if she kills herself it would be a double homocide.

    • Andrew Eppink

      Yeah James. That’s obviously what should happen. The Paramount Human Life Amendment – We recognize and affirm that the paramount right to life exists in each human being from the moment of conception to the time of natural death without regard to age, health or condition of dependency.

      We’ve been cruel and stupid barbarians for far too long now.

      • Robert Smith

        Yes, it is cruel and barbaric to FORCE a woman to remain pregnant, particularly if her health is threatened.

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          robert,
          no one here is mandating that a woman has to carry a child to term if it threatens her health. Just remember though, that group of women makes up maybe less than 1% of the abortions performed in this country!! I would be willing to settle for any of them from rape, incest, or the true threat of the mothers life!! That number would be very small compared to the ones performed NOW!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Who decides what a “true” threat is?

            Remember, the terminal stage of depression is suicide.

            If she can’t get help through universal health care how do you propose to end those suicides?

            How can you be “pro-life” and deny health care?

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            how can you mandate it yet excuse some from the mandate????

          • http://deleted Claire

            Suicide is another issue that will never go away, regardless of the reasoning behind it.

        • Andrew Eppink

          Dang, Rob. Your iq must be some negative number. Outside of rape it’s impossible for women to become unwillingly pregnant as even a witless flaming lib such as yourself is obviously aware. Even vacuous libs have some degree of commonsense. I think.

        • James

          Robert S., There are laws on the books, now, that allow expectant mothers to discontinue their pregnancy if their life is threatened by it.

    • Rebecca

      James,

      The 14th Amendment is a moot point in this discussion. There was no need for the wording to be different because 19776 abortion was not a legal alternative and I am sure that it did not even enter the minds of our Founding Fathers that this level of depravity would become an issue to the American people.

      • Rebecca

        Sorry for the typo…I meant to say “in 1776 abortion was not a legal alternative”

        • James

          Rebecca, How the Founding Fathers thought doesn’t change how the Supreme Court Justices think today. They don’t act on traditional moral principles, they go by the letter of the law. For example Leviticus 20:13 says homosexual acts are capital offenses, and such sins were made crimes, but the High Court, in Lawrence v. Texas, said such acts are now rights.

      • Robert Smith

        From Rebecca: ” I am sure that it did not even enter the minds of our Founding Fathers that this level of depravity would become an issue to the American people.”

        Actually abortion was possible then. Among women it was called, “Drawing down the blood.”

        Some herbs that were used are:
        Angelica/Dong Quai
        Black Cohosh
        Blue Cohosh
        Cotton Root Bark
        Evening Primrose (Oenothera hookeri) Parsley for use with other herbs or vitamin c.
        Pennyroyal

        They are not as effective and reliable as current methods.

        Abortion was made illegal NOT as a religious basis but as a way for doctors (who wanted control) didn’t want midwives doing them. When surgery came about many women died because the doctor didn’t wash his hands.

        Rob

      • James

        Rebecca, another aspect of changing the 14th Amendment, as above worded, is that illegal alien expectant mothers could no longer procreate citizens of the United States, as they now do by just stepping across our borders to give birth.

  • Tim

    James, babies weren’t being ripped from their mother’s wombs when the constitution was adopted. That being said, the highest Judge said that He formed us in the womb. Most beieve that right and wrong is relative. I happen to be one of the remnent that believes that there is an absolute standard-the Bible. The framers of the constitution also believed in this standard. They never thought in their wildest dreams that our country would evolve into what it has become. They never thought that wording would be necessary to give meaning to a human life whether unborn or born.

    • Robert Smith

      posted: “James, babies weren’t being ripped from their mother’s wombs when the constitution was adopted.”

      Yes they were. See “Herbal Abortions”.

      Despirate women who didn’t want to be pregnant risked their lives to get un-pregnant.

      Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        so now the only life that is at risk is the BABYS!!

        • Robert Smith

          Only if that is what you believe Joe. Not everyone in America shares your view. What gives you the right to impose your anti-abortion view upon others in a country where you allegedly want freedom?

          BTW, if someone stays in your house after a party and refuses to leave, demands you supply 100% of their needs for 9 months what will you do?

          Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            Well, seeing that if they are at a party at my house and decide on their own to stay, they must be adults and I would kick their freeloading asses out of my house!!! i have two young adults living in my home right now that arent mine as their family can’t or won’t help them out while attending college AND working so I let them stay here in my house! See robbie, I live what I say!! the girl, found the way the other day to give me 35.00 towards gas and food and since I take her back and forth to work, feed her, and pay the utilities, I accepted. Now, if you can find a place that will do all that for that amount, I suggest you snatch it up!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Joe says: “if you can find a place that will do all that for that amount, I suggest you snatch it up!!!”

            But if the girl is pregnant you won’t contribute anything to the situation because she participated in sex. But you will demand that she support another “person” (in your opinion) for 9 months against her will.

            How christian of you Joe.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            Now see, there is where your stupidity shows its ugly head!!! I would still support the girl and help her in any way I could if pregnant and would help her any way I could after she gave birth!!! Been there and done that!!! Why don’t you try and use that thing on your shoulders for something besides keeping your ears separate???
            Will a felt marker help signing???

    • James

      Tim, There has always been abortions in the United States, but it was also a criminal offense. It was the Roe v. Wade High Court decision that made abortion a right, under ‘liberty’ in the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment.

  • Alexander

    Either you believe that life begins at birth or you don’t.
    I do and I think that giving another chance for the mother to make the right decision is worthwhile. Don’t even convicted murderers get chances to appeal their sentences? How much more so an unborn soul waiting to get his or her chance to fulfill their misssion on this physical world. Freedom of choice yes. CHOSE LIFE.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Alexander.. I believe that life begins at conception.

      • Jana

        Robin,
        So do I. So does God.

        • Robert Smith

          I think your brutal god is willing to let women to choose so he can see what decision she makes.

          Rob

          • Thamera

            What makes you think that god is brutal Robert?

          • Jana

            Thamera,
            Because his god is brutal, and he has nothing to compare the One True God to. If he had any real comprehension of God, he would know better, but he opens his mouth so to speak, and out comes hatred, vile and lewd remarks as well as revealing his black heart.
            He is indeed a very disgusting dirty old man (and I say man loosly in this instant as he is not really a man in the manly sense.)

          • Robert Smith

            Thelma asks: “What makes you think that god is brutal Robert?”

            Jerrico, Sodom, Gamaorih, that flood that killed everyone except Noah and his kin, and that first born slaughter.

            Any more questions?

            Rob

    • James

      Alexander, It doesn’t matter what you, or anyone else thinks. The Supreme Court has ruled that until a fetus is born, it is not a citizen, and until it is a citizen, it does not have any rights, thus killing it is not a crime. The only thing that will change that is to alter the 14th Amendment, which is what the High Court used for its decision.

  • Thamera

    Excellent point Sean. It has always been so interesting to me that just because a living being is dependent on their mother for life that it makes it okay to kill them, in utero. Extend that logic and apply it to the first year of their life then. I don’t know any infants that could survive outside of the womb on their own.
    In addition, pregnancy is the consequence of a choice and there is not one living soul that doesn’t know how to prevent pregnancy through birth control or know where to get it and most of the time it’s free!

    However, I do believe in freedom of choice. Do I agree with that choice? Absolutely not and I believe in the long run it has damaged a lot of women who have made these decisions and have suffered greatly for it emotionally who would of benefited from a waiting clause. A waiting clause isn’t telling someone what to do, it is giving them a chance to really think about a choice that will have life lasting consequences and could do them irreparable harm; not to mention destroying a human life. And there are so many people that would love to adopt a baby.

    • Rebecca

      Excellent point and well put Thamera

    • Robert Smith

      From Therma; ” And there are so many people that would love to adopt a baby.”

      Yup. Lots of gays would like to adopt.

      Would you allow them to adopt? If not, why not?

      Rob

  • Dean

    It’s better than 20 years in prison for murder, which should be the law!

  • newspooner

    Did you mean to say that you believe that life begins AT CONCEPTION, not that life begins AT BIRTH? You finish by saying CHOOSE LIFE. That sounds like a pro-life position. And the pro-life position is that life begins at conception, simply because the time of birth is so easily changed by drugs, trauma, surgery, etc. that someone’s arbitrary action could arbitrarilly decide whether a life exists or not if conceoption isn’t the real starting point of life. Why would it be okay to kill a human 2 days before he is born but not 2 days after he is born if a simple medical procedure or accident could have caused him to be born 4 days earlier? The absurdity of the pro-abortion position is that simple.

    • Rebecca

      Newspooner, you and I are SO on the same page!

    • Robert Smith

      posted: “That sounds like a pro-life position.”

      How can anyone be “pro-life” and deny millions of Americans health care?

      Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        keep streatching rob, you’ll fall yet!!!!

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Joe, why don’t you answer the question: How can you be “pro-life” and deny anyone health care that will save that life?

          That’s not “stretching” anything.

          Why won’t you answer it?

          Rob

          • Jana

            Robert,
            No one is denied health care now. We all now know your position is you want to kill the unborn babies. You hate God and you hate anyone who believes in God. How much more obnoxious can you get? And I don’t want to know by the way, you are obnoxious enough already!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            Maybe a pencil????

          • Thamera

            Yah, Jana, Robert kinda reminds me of the obnoxious kid on the corner sticking out his tongue with his fingers in his ears shouting “neener, neener, neener” just keeping out of reach of the kid that could deck him and everyone wishing that he would!

          • Robert Smith

            Jana says: “No one is denied health care now.”

            Really? Tell me, why do you oppose Obama health care that would cover everyone?

            “We all now know your position is you want to kill the unborn babies.”

            Why are you lying, Jana? I don’t want to kill any unborn babies. I’m interested in American women being able to make their own decisions about health care and how their bodies are used.

            More from Jana: “You hate God and you hate anyone who believes in God.”

            Awww, Jana, you havein’t seen my posts about Bishop Song or several others who respect women and gays, have you?

            “How much more obnoxious can you get?”

            Much more. The extreme reich (check out the first and second that were so inspirational to the third) is diserving of hate and expression of such. But I enjoy my posts staying rather than being deleted by the extremists with an ageda.

            “And I don’t want to know by the way,”

            Yes. As one of the “faithful” I imagine you don’t want to know. I see it as ignorance is bliss for true believers (in the same context as Eric Hoffer defined them).

            “you are obnoxious enough already!”

            Why don’t you try to think for yourself rather than being one of the sheepeople?

            And, why don’t you allow other women to think for themselves?

            Rob

    • Robert Smith

      newspooner asks: ” Why would it be okay to kill a human 2 days before he is born but not 2 days after he is born…”

      Because two days before it is born if the woman doesn’t want to be carrying it it is slavery.

      Two days after anyone can take care of it.

      Rob

  • newspooner

    That question was meant for Alexander. I think he is pro-life, but it wasn’t clear from his wording.

  • s c

    The dolts at Planned nonParenthood [aka Easy Money Via Political Power and Greed] should be outsourced. Potential mothers should consider an ADOPTION, as opposed to a quick-fix abortion. Yahoos who think abortion is a solution would have made fine Nazis in WWII.
    Women who go through the Planned nonParenthood ‘option’ must be aware of exactly what happens during an abortion. It is NOT a matter of “out of sight, out of mind”. A woman who has no feelings about what really happens in an abortion probably isn’t isn’t “mother” material in the first place.
    Forget the idea that people should have been smarter than to let politicians get involved in this atrocity. Bypass the bastards via ADOPTION.
    This is a complicated issue, that’s true. BUT, relying on pimped-out MDs and politicians didn’t help matters. It made it WORSE. And, when it comes to Planned nonParenthood, folks, it’s a matter of MONEY and political power.
    Truly helping people is NOT a part of that equation. Money still talks, especially when it comes to morality and what passes for instant, self-absolution.

    • newspooner

      I think that most of the people at Planned Parenthood are evil power-seekers who want to have government control people, rather than being dolts. Many of their followers are indeed dolts. Kinda like the difference between Juan Peron Obama and George Quincy Bush. Obama is an evil power-seeker; Bush is a dolt.

      • Karolyn

        Have you ever been to a Planned Parenthood office? Surprise, Surprise, they are normal people just like you!!

        • Thamera

          Did you mean to say that they are just like you Karolyn? And yes, before you even go down that road, I have been to Planned Parenthood. Thankfully there are new clinics springing up now called Birth Rite.

        • newspooner

          I strongly disagree. I have been to Planned Parenthood offices and events. And I can tell you that the vast majority of the people I have met there are not “normal”. They are almost entirely a group of people who want to tell you and me what to do (about many issues, not just abortion), and then make us pay for it. Like the activists among the homosexuals, the tell you they want tolerance (I’m fine with that), but then insist on having your approval. Tolerance isn’t enough with most of them. They really believe that they have a right to insist on having your approval. That is not a normal American attitude of freedom and liberty.

    • Robert Smith

      From sc: “Bypass the bastards via ADOPTION.”

      Why not take the fetus from the woman and transplant it into the anti-abortion protesters outside?

      Maybe those loudmouths will figure out what it is to be FORCED to carry to term. And stick them into the guys too. After all, if Arnold can get preggers…

      Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        HEY GUYS N GALS!! Robert probably believes that last line as well! I mean it was in the movies, right????

        • Robert Smith

          Joe says: “I mean it was in the movies, right????”

          Yup, and Danny helped him.

          But, I wasn’t being literal. I suspect that those who use their bible about a brutal god and take it literally could easily accept your blather.

          Rob

          • Jana

            With the abundance of your heart, the mouth (and your writings) speak. What a sad pathetic person you are.

          • libertytrain

            Jana – I have to agree with you what a horribly sad soul he must be. I’ve not seen any poster come across as such a miserable being as he.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            libertytrain,
            It’s from all those support checks he writes each month!!!

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, denisso comes close, very close.

          • libertytrain

            Yes, I see your point Jeff, but Rob has a real bitterness that just flows into his posts that I’ve not seen from anyone to date.

        • Thamera

          Well, ya. He also believes that fetuses are nothing more than acorns and seems pretty clueless about how it all happens that a baby is conceived. He is just an ick.

    • Robert Smith

      From sc: “Planned nonParenthood”

      Quit lying. Planned Parenthood also helps women how they can get pregnant if that is what they want.

      Rob

  • Rebecca

    The best thing we could do is to outlaw this murderous practice. But, until that happens, a waiting period is a good thing. Most women who have an abortion do so because they are in a panic over the crisis pregnancy. When people panic, the first instinct is to get rid of the problem or get out of the bad situation. Given a day or two to regroup, think about the issue and gain some education on the subject will prevent many a hasty decision.

    • Thamera

      Exactly Rebecca, Fight or Flight! Unfortunately our system has made it far to easy for people to run away from their problems. Only this is one problem that you can’t just run away from even after the baby has been disposed of.

    • Robert Smith

      From Rebecca: “The best thing we could do is to outlaw this murderous practice.”

      Abortion is mostly legal in most places. It is NOT “murder” except in your own religious context.

      You can not have all the non-abortions you want but quit pushing your religion on the rest of us.

      Rob

      • Jana

        Robert, You are a sick individual. No one is pushing anything on anyone. The only thing is we want to make sure these women know and understand all of the repercussions of their actions. They still have freedom of choice.
        Why are you so afraid of women having knowledge? Is that it? You like women to be dumbed down, and subservient to you.

        • Robert Smith

          From Jana: “Robert, You are a sick individual.”

          No real arguments so you diminish another. Thank you for such a fine example from the extreme reich. Remember, check out the first and second.

          More blather from Jana. This one is a denia: “No one is pushing anything on anyone.”

          Really! Are you going to accept the woman’t judgement? Of course not, you want three days to convince her that she is wrong. What BS.

          Here Jana goes again: “The only thing is we want to make sure these women know and understand all of the repercussions of their actions.”

          Then why don’t you present your case along with pro-choice efforts in High School? Age appropriate education is certainly a way to make sure that kids are educated.

          “They still have freedom of choice.”

          No they don’t. When a trip of several hundred miles TWICE is required to have an abortion you are assumbing that those who want one are so dumb they can’t reach a decision without your input.

          Jana asks: “Why are you so afraid of women having knowledge?”

          Quit lying again, Jana. I want women to see all views. I think ALL views should be presented in a general health class in High School. Human reproduction is fairly standard, and the “morals” of such should be clearly defined and presented as such. Why are you afraid to present in an environment where kids can learn both sides?

          “Is that it?”

          No, and quit lying about my position.

          “You like women to be dumbed down, and subservient to you.”

          Not at all. I like intelligent women a lot. That way they aren’t dependant upon me to give them their opinions. I like a woman who can think for herself.

          Rob

          • Jay

            Robert, she’s right, you are a sick individual!

      • pete

        Abortion isn’t just a religion among American Women !! It’s a way of life !! A right to practiced wholeheatedly !! Right Robert ?

        Anyhow, women who have abortions are genetically “inferior” to the ones who don’t have an abortion. As the women “species” evolves, the more highly evolved women will have more babies, thus insuring the evolution of the human race to a new, more intelligent species ….

        Basically, women who have abortions are just composed of genetic “crap”, their mutation has caused an absence of the maternal instinct.

        Right Robert ? Shouldn’t women who had abortions be sterilized ? Using genetic science we could isolate the mutation in Pro-Abortion women and then sterilize them before they can murder their offspring ….

        This would save the insurance companies/government and society mucho dinero, right amigo ?

      • Rebecca

        Ok Robert…lets assume that you have a shred of humanity. Would you take the life of a full term baby 5 minutes after birth? How about five minutes before birth? How about five weeks before birth? Five months?

        And before you pull the viability card out, don’t. The baby is viable as long as it is in the mother’s womb and not snatched out for convenience sake.

        You are blaming all the controversy on religion. That has nothing to do with it. Heck, the Muslims that flew planes into the twin towers were “religious”.

    • James

      Rebecca, the Supreme Court (Roe v. Wade) says women have the right to abort their babies. How could you, we, alter that?

      • pete

        My solution is to find the pro-abortion women by using genetic testing. Those who test positive will be sterilized … thus solving the problem …

  • iamone3

    Except to save the life of the woman, adoption is the civilized answer. Abortion destroys life.

    • Robert Smith

      iamone says: “Abortion destroys life”

      So does a lack of health care. Do you support Obama’s health care such that more people will live? There is absolutely no question about the born bein people.

      Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        you mean the one that councils anybody over 65 on how to die???

        • Robert Smith

          Joe asks: “you mean the one that councils anybody over 65 on how to die???”

          Ain’t no such thing so quit lying, Joe.

          What I support is a discussion about how an individual wants to go through their own end of life.

          What gives YOU the right to do that for them?

          Rob

          • Thamera

            I love how you call anyone that doesn’t agree with you Robert, a liar. How convenient for you. You might be asked the same thing: What gives you the right to decide that a fetus has no rights? What gives you the right to decide that a father (you know the other factor in the equation) has no rights?

          • Jana

            Thamara,
            I have always found the one that calls everyone else a liar is full of lies and deceptions himself. Generally a normal person doesn’t use that word very often, but Rob is using it a lot.

          • Robert Smith

            From Thamera: “I love how you call anyone that doesn’t agree with you Robert, a liar.”

            That’s interesting. I didn’t think that such emotional involvement should be part of a debate.

            More from Thamara: “How convenient for you.”

            A lie is a lie. Those who post about ME rather than the issue have absolutely no idea of how or what I am thinking. So, they make stuff up. When they do that I post what I think it is.

            More from Thalma: “You might be asked the same thing: What gives you the right to decide that a fetus has no rights?”

            Fair question. I think the rights of the woman and her CHOICES deserve more respect that (if a person) of someone who is demanding literally everyting from her. Obviously as the right wing thinks folks should stand on their own how do you justify any woman being enslaved to support another against their will?

            Rob

            What gives you the right to decide that a father (you know the other factor in the equation) has no rights?

      • iamone3

        Rob, I am against Obamas forced health care. Does that answer your question? The word force implies you do not have a “choice” Where is your pro-choice stand on Obamas health care? I see it doesn`t exist.

        • Robert Smith

          Asked: “Where is your pro-choice stand on Obamas health care?”

          I have no choice now with private insurance. I need to deal with whatever terms the Blue Cross “plan” dictates.

          Further, for those who have no insurance they don’t have the option of a choice of care of a condition before it becomes accute, such as diabedis. They have absolutely no choice but to have parts of them cut off.

          Universal healthe care allows them to be treated before the receptionist at work catches TB on the buss simply because the person next to her has it and couldn’t get it cured because they don’t have health care.

          Rob

          Rob

          • Thamera

            Rob you are so completely delusional if you truly think that you or anyone is going to be afforded a quality health care plan through the government. Medicaid gives you crap. Instead of porcelain crowns you get metal (just one example) and you have some pencil pusher sometimes in another state overriding your doctor’s decision telling them what you really need and what you don’t…what scrips they are going to pay for and what they won’t. I work with family’s who are on medicaid now and I can tell you it is CRAP and that is what every American can look forward to with Obama’s health care plan. Sub-standard Care!!!!

      • Thamera

        Well, there may be some question about that Robert…when it comes to you…

  • iamone3

    These macabre juxtapositions pointedly show how arbitrary and irrational was the Court’s selection of “viability” as some sort of magical dividing line between person and non-person. The line keeps moving — and it was always subjective in the first place. After all, a 1-year-old toddler cannot survive on its own. A person with advanced Alzheimer’s, multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig’s disease or Huntington’s cannot survive on their own. Anyone who’s in the intensive care unit of a hospital — whether for days or for weeks — is not surviving on his or her own. “Viability” as a criterion for deciding who’s human and who’s not was always just plain silly — so silly that it would be laughable if it didn’t have the most deadly serious of consequences: the murder of more than 50 million children in the United States since 1973.
    http://www.redstate.com/heartlander/2011/02/15/the-heartbeat-bill-this-may-be-the-case-that-changes-the-culture-and-overturns-roe-v-wade/

    • Thamera

      Exactly!

    • Robert Smith

      From iamone: “After all, a 1-year-old toddler cannot survive on its own.”

      But society can step in rather than one individual being forced to carry it.

      If technology were developed that you could have an artificial womb to gestate it in would you “adopt” it? How many?

      Rob

      • http://?? Joe H.

        robert,
        and one Man can be forced to support it till its 22 and have no choice in the matter. BTW, he also has no choice in the matter if his son/daughter is murdered!!

        • Robert Smith

          That’s right Joe. He isn’t being forced to “cary” it for nine months against his will.

          Further, I don’t think a guy should be forced to pay. It was she who decided to participate in sex, and it is she who decides to carry it or not.

          Why are you so worried about ONE sacred sperm?

          Rob

      • iamone3

        Rob, allowing women to kill their children isn`t the answer. Try again.

        • Robert Smith

          Shucks iamone, why do you believe it is a “child?”

          In fact one can easily believe the product of a sperm and egg getting together to be the beginning of a process, not the end result.

          Rob

      • Thamera

        Oh yes, because pregnancy is such a horrible thing! My gawd, how can anyone be expected to endure such a thing???? How about not getting pregnant in the first place, but then you would have to deny yourself something that feels sooo good…right Robert?

        • Robert Smith

          Thamera says: “How about not getting pregnant in the first place,”

          How about taking that up with Brystol?

          Rob

          • Thamera

            Bristol Palin kept her baby Robert….what is it with you and the Palin’s anyway? Your posts just ooze with anger and contempt.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Thamera,
            you just made me think of something!!! Maybe robert is bristols boyfriend?!?!? Afterall he WOULD wish that Bristol wouldn’t have carried full term, then he would have been able to just carry on!!!!

  • http://com i41

    Just the me me me b–l s–t arguement. If you are going to light a fire there is always consquenses, something progressive, iberial, soros socialist democraps think can be over looked. I noticed the Nocarte created by the dumbocraps didn’t have a 10 month waiting period for medical procedures to be approved. The supporters of abortion will never talk about making the sire support their peice of tissue the dam is carring. SD now has a new bill just like the federal hand gun bill, the fetus human has 2 more days to live, before the b–ch carring it discharges her responsiblities.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy 131

    I’ll bet that the ACLU takes this to a federal court and decries that it violates a womans right when having an abortion, though the Constitution doesn’t proclaim abortion a right. But the ACLU fought for and supports a waiting period and back-round check for citizens purchasing a gun, for which the Constitution does declare is a right for all American citizens. Liberal hypocracy is astounding and they never quit, even when they know they are wrong.

    • Robert Smith

      From Randy: “But the ACLU fought for and supports a waiting period and back-round check for citizens purchasing a gun,”

      I don’t believe that. Thus far the ACLU hasn’t been involved in the gun debate.

      Can you show us a policy where such might be believed?

      Rob

  • Mac

    Abortion is a medical procedure, which politicians have no business sticking their noses in. Only the doctor and the woman should be involved, with no outside coercion. Everybody is getting all up in arms about the late-term “partial birth” procedure, which is not done often, and every thinking person will realize is an extreme procedure that is not done without much soul-searching by the doctors who do it.

    As for those who claim abortion was not done prior to 1900, or whenever, how do you KNOW it wasn’t done? Of course it was done, just that nobody talked about it.

    • GregS

      Mac says:

      “Abortion is a medical procedure, which politicians have no business sticking their noses in.”

      The federal government politicized abortion in 1973, when Roe v. Wade / Doe v. Bolton formally institutionalized abortion on demand for any and all reasons throughout all stages of pregnancy.

      Many women are under extreme pressure to have abortions by parents, friends, or lovers. The South Dakota Law allows these women to have more time to carefully consider all the consequences before having an abortion.

      Mac says:

      “…late-term ‘partial birth’ procedure…every thinking person will realize is an extreme procedure that is not done without much soul-searching by the doctors who do it.”

      There’s another word for your type of “thinking:” Its called denial.

      Consider, for example, the officials in Pennsylvania, who ignored what was going on in abortionist Kermit Gosnell’s clinic. Officials under the pro-abortion former-governor Tom Ridge had discontinued annual inspections of abortion clinics in 1993, under the guise that they would be “putting a barrier up to women” seeking abortions. Therefore Gosnell’s clinic had not been inspected for 17 years. Here’s the link to the full grand jury report, which describes what went on in Gosnell’s abortion clinic:

      http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/PDFs/GrandJuryWomensMedical.pdf

      It’s quite apparent that officials in the Pennsylvania Department of Health did a LOT of your type of “thinking.” They assumed that abortionists like Kermit Gosnell were doing their due “soul-searching,” when, in fact, the closest thing to “soul-searching” that Gosnell apparently ever did, was to re-word the killing of the babies that he delivered as “ensuring fetal demise.” Sucking the brains out of a baby’s skull during a partial-birth abortion also “ensur[es] fetal demise” before the baby is completly out of the womb. This is what makes mid- and late-term abortions legal. The question of whether or not the baby can survive outside of the womb (“viability”) then becomes a moot point.

      What went on in Pennnsylvania is just ONE example of what may be going on all over the country, due to all those people who do your type of “thinking.” The fact is that it takes more than just “thinking” to get to the truth about abortion.

      • Jana

        GregS,
        Wow what a revealing post. This supposed Dr. reminds me of the Dr.’s that did ‘research’ on the children and the women at Auschwitz.

        • GregS

          Absolutely, Jana! Furthermore, the situation in Pennsylvania clearly shows the extremes, to which abortionists (especially the mid- and late-term abortionists) will go, if they are not closely watched and inspected. Those people have no conscience, and they will do anything for money, population control, and, yes, even genocide, yet they are protected under the false notion of having done all this “soul-searching,” while satisfying a woman’s so-called “right to choose.” Obviously, the pro-abortion governor of Pennsylvania took this notion seriously when he discontinued inspections of all abortion clinics in the state in 1993, in order to protect a woman’s so-called “access to abortion.”

          This situation has far-reaching impact in all aspects of the abortion issue, including waiting periods, parental consent, frequent inspections, etc., and it justifies strict regulation of abortion to the hilt, until someday, hopefully, Roe v. Wade will finally be overturned.

      • Robert Smith

        From GregS: “Consider, for example, the officials in Pennsylvania, who ignored what was going on in abortionist Kermit Gosnell’s clinic.”

        Why should we consider the actions of a criminal?

        Those of us who are pro-choice want abortion to be SAFE and avalible. We celebrate the arrest of such a criminal.

        Pleas quit lying about the position of those of us who are pro-choice.

        Rob

        • GregS

          Robert Smith says:

          “Why should we consider the actions of a criminal?”

          Robert, I NEVER said that you should consider the actions of a criminal. The actions of Kermit Gosnell are quite well noted! My statement, which you quoted BTW, refers to the pro-abortion officials in Pennsylvania, who ignored the actions of the criminal. In response to Mac’s post, I pointed out their flawed “thinking” that all abortionists do some sort of “soul-searching” before doing mid- and late-term abortions. These oficials wanted to make abortions “SAFE and avalible,” just like you and your pro-abortion cohorts, so they discontinued inspections of all abortion clinics in 1993.

          Either you didn’t read my post, or you lack the ability to comprehend what you read. Which is it???

  • http://com i41

    Yes and cutting someone’s throat is a medical procedure between a knife weilding operator and somepersons neck. The doctordoing the “procedure” is a murder and the mother letting her baby be killed is a murder too. A big puzzle is why pro sabortists whine like a sow when a deasth row imate is removed for this society, but a child who has hurt or done anything to harm society is klilled due to an imconveint natural occurance from mating. Also all democrats are proabortionist elitist scum bags.

    • Thamera

      You could also add puppies and kittens to that list i41. It truly is disgusting and pathetic, not to mention hypocritical at the very least.

  • Oh Dear

    We should be reducing the global human population not adding more unwanted people to the burden of the world.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      How about the old aspirin trick? Held tightly between a woman’s knees while dating.

      Oh Dear…. You have issues. If children are not wanted, there are several methods of birth control out there. Abortion is not birth control… it is murder.

      • Robert Smith

        Posted: “How about the old aspirin trick? Held tightly between a woman’s knees while dating. ”

        Worded great for Brystol Palun, didn’t it…

        BTW, if you knew that your child was going to be gay would you consider aborting it? The Chaney’s didn’t.

        Rob

        • Thamera

          Wow, you sure do hate the Palin’s don’t you. Does it make you mad that she got pregnant, or that she had the fortitude to keep her baby and a strong, loving family that has stood by her side?

          • Jana

            Thamera,
            You are so right. The Palins showed that they are human, and humans make mistakes, but they showed how a good family and a loving family handle themselves in times of adversity. That gives them strength and power. The Bible happens to be full of these kinds of examples. How to overcome adversities.

    • Andrew Eppink

      You sound like you have the iq of an educated brick. Everyone on the planet could fit easily into North Dakota with plenty of room to spare – do the very straightforward calculation. If you’re convinced population reduction is necessary, start with you libs and raise the intelligence of the planet.

      • Robert Smith

        Congratulations for your being rescued after being lost in a revolving door.

        How does it feel trying to think for others? Ohhhhhhh, I get it! Your life is just too boring and you need to mess with the lives of others.

        Rob

        • Jana

          No Robert, thats you!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jana,
            no robert doesn’t want to think, he just wants to kill, kill, kill!!

          • Robert Smith

            Quit lying Joe. I don’t want to kill…

            What I want is to have the wishes of any woman respected.

            Why don’t you respect women?

            Do you think they are too dumb? Do you think they are immoral? Do you think they can’t life without your input?

            Just what is it Joe?

            Rob

    • Thamera

      Well now, Oh Dear, this post of yours is very telling. If you are so concerned with the overpopulation ‘myth’ then maybe you would be willing to lead by example. Of course not! LOL

  • Carrie

    More government control.

    It is no one’s business if a woman decides to have an abortion. It should stop being a political football. Any day I would have a politician in the obstetrician’s office with me, it will be a cold day in hade’s!

    Birth control should always be readily available. Are birth control pills covered by insurance? They didn’t use to be, YET, Viagara was? Why is that? Double standard! Sexist!! Why should the woman always be targeted for wanting an abortion? The man should be shunned too!! After all he probably talked her into satisfying HIS need against her better judgement. Abortion should be legal, covered by insurance, and better yet…IT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!! It is a private decision a female makes about her own reproductive rights!!!

    I personally would not want to have to make this decision. No matter what I would do, a female has the right to have this option open to her. Otherwise we are the subservient sex, and don’t deserve the rights Susan B Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Alice Paul, our sisters suffered, including imprisonment in a rat infested cell, to gain for us!! Yes, Susan B would have supported this!!!

    Three day wait? Let the governor wait three days for his wife to decide if she will have sex with him? He must be a male pig!!!

    • Oh Dear

      Well said Carrie

      • Thamera

        A lot of anger there Carrie. So, the father is? Joe makes an excellent point and one that women like yourself like to ignore. It takes “two to tango” sweetie, you and Oh Dear and everyone else on this board know that but for some reason only the “rights” of the woman are considered…hmmm…now that sounds “sexist” to me. And at the very least Robert…nothing less than INEQUALITY.

        • Robert Smith

          Posted: ” Oh Dear and everyone else on this board know that but for some reason only the “rights” of the woman are considered…”

          The guy doesn’t have to carry it for nine months. He can walk away.

          The woman has to carry it for 9 months.

          Rob

          • Thamera

            Not even worth the time to comment Rob.

    • Sean

      Birth control has been covered by insurance for years!

      “her reproductive rights”????? what does that mean. So a baby is a reproductive right??? If you can’t force your will on a women what gives anyone the right to force rights onto a baby – who takes care of the rights of the baby??? Are we not supposed to protect them?? Aren’t the politicians meddling in making the decisions for the babies by allowing mothers to kill them now?? So the politicians should not get involved as long as they go against your wishes Carrie!

      • Robert Smith

        Posted: “If you can’t force your will on a women what gives anyone the right to force rights onto a baby – who takes care of the rights of the baby???”

        Prove it is any more a “baby” than an acorn is a tree.

        Why isn’t a teenager punished for spilling his seed when he takes “Hustler” to bed?

        Why isn’t a woman punished every month when her egg dribble out?

        Maybe 2nd degree murder?

        Rob

        • Jay

          First we would have to prove to you that you are human, a rather difficult challenge, then we would prove that you have intellect, impossible!!!

        • GregS

          Robert Smith says:

          “Prove it is any more a ‘baby’ than an acorn is a tree.”

          As I said previously, Robert, your analogy is invalid:

          http://www.personalliberty.com/news/south-dakota-law-will-require-three-day-wait-counseling-before-abortions-800468970/#comment-399050

          Robert Smith says:

          “Why isn’t a teenager punished for spilling his seed when he takes “Hustler” to bed?

          Why isn’t a woman punished every month when her egg dribble out?”

          Robert, what part of “living human organism with his/her own genome, sex, etc.,” don’t you understand?

          “His seed” is NOT a living human organism. “Her egg” is NOT a living human organism.

      • James

        Sean, It wasn’t politicians, it was the Supreme Court (Roe, v. Wade, 1973) that gave women the right to abort their babies. Those who disagree with that decision should suggest a way to get it changed.

        • GregS

          James, you’ve missed the point: The Supreme Court politicized abortion in 1973 by creating a “right,” which never previously existed in the Constitution, and which interferes with one of the most basic rights of all: The right to life.

          • James

            GregS, I agree, I thought that’s what I said. What’s your point?

          • GregS

            James, my point is that since the Supreme Court politicized the abortion issue, through Roe v. Wade, in the first place, it will require politicians to change it through the creation of a Human Life Amendmant.

          • GregS

            Furthermore, you said that “…It wasn’t politicians…that gave women the right to abort their babies.” Actually, the Supreme Court justices acted as politicians in ceating a so-called “right,” which didn’t previously exist. The Supreme Court, at that time, was stacked with justices who were looking for a way to get abortion legalized.

            There’s another way, besides a Human Life Amendment, to get that decision changed: Overturn it. Currently, there’s a law that’s being passed in a number of states, which is known as “The Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act.” The pro-aborts have not as yet challenged this law, because they’re acutely aware that if it got to the Supreme Court, with the curent mix of justices, Roe v. Wade could get overturned.

    • http://personallibertydigest gunner689

      Carrie you must be a real sweetheart. Pity the man that ends up with you. So you think it’s OK to murder babies and have the rest of us pay for it ? It’s too bad your mother didn’t feel the same about you. If a woman can do whatever she wants with her body why is prostitution, self-maiming, and suicide illegal. You’re just a self centered little witch who want everthing her way. Maybe you’ve already murdered a child or two of your own and are just trying to justify your evil decision. There is a special place in Hell for you and your kind.

      • Robert Smith

        Hey gunner!

        You posted: “So you think it’s OK to murder babies and have the rest of us pay for it ?”

        And you think it’s a “good” thing to force ME to pay welfare? But wait! Isn’t the same folks who deny abortion the same folks who don’t want people to get help when they can’t got to work because they have a few kids?

        Rob

        • Jay

          Yes Robert, its good for you to pay welfare for such a cause as this. No doubt your mommy received it to keep you in food and clothing. Why deny someone else the privilege?

    • Bill

      It amazes me how some women try and rationalize the choice of murdering a life that God has entrusted them to bear, with the weak logic of it being their “personal choice”. There is no choice in the matter. You forfeited your right to choice when you accepted your role in the conception. Take responsibility for the life you create, live up to the moral consequences ,and learn from your actions to avoid a repeat performance of any further unconscionable actions.

      • Robert Smith

        Bill says: “You forfeited your right to choice when you accepted your role in the conception. ”

        Let’s ask Mary about that. Remember, she was the one raped by someone claiming to be god. Got any proof of that god? And please don’t give me that rubbish about your version of a holy book being written by him. There are lots of holy books. They can’t all be right.

        Rob

        • Bill

          Robert,

          your description that Mary was raped is a typical response by someone that doesn’t have the spiritual inspiration needed to comprehend the Bible, and I understand why you would believe it to be so.To truly grasp the Bible one cannot expect to sit down and read it like any other literature. Yes, there are many versions of it,but they all tell the same truth, just different in their language.I even laugh at the concept of trying to read the Bible in one year,yea you can read it, but can you grasp the divine concepts that God reveals to you in that short time span? NO WAY Lastly, the more confusion and doubt about the Bible there is, the less people truly understand what God’s love letter to mankind is all about.

          • Jana

            Bill,
            Besides, the Angel Gabriel talked with Mary before she conceived and explained to her why, when and what. She agreed to it. She had actually been prepared for this in her heart, knowing something of great importance was about to come to her before the Angel even appeared to her. God only uses willing vessels.

          • Bill

            Jana,

            Yes, you are right.Thank you for your response.

          • Robert Smith

            Hi Folks,

            The age of consent has never reached 13 or 14. IOW, Mary was too young to give consent.

            IOW, it was rape to get her pregnant.

            Rob

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Carrie,
      Yes, let’s do talk of rights and blame! You blame the man, yet in most cases all she has to do is say no. If there is a child created the woman can demand an abortion, yet the man who helped create it has no say in the matter, if the woman decides to keep the child, the man again has no say yet he has to support the child until 18 or 22 if it goes to college!! the woman has ALL the say in this matter!!

      • http://deleted Claire

        The way I look at it is–if a woman does not have any respect for herself and her body, then she reaps what she sows. I am no prude by any means, but if a woman chooses to flaunt herself in sexual ways, she is just asking for trouble and no doubt STDs, including the reputation of being the town whore. Actions speak louder than words and people have a “choice.” There will always be sex acts, married or not. It is still the woman that carries the child, and bears the brunt of the problem. I am not placing all the blame on women, because the men certainly play a big part in this issue too. Practicing safe sex is the only answer, and this won’t happen because in the heat of the moment, all caution is thrown to the winds. Unwanted pregnancies will never go away, it is an issue that will always be in existance, and people will always do what they want, and no bill that comes to pass will prevent any of this.

    • http://deleted Claire

      Carrie–Although I do not believe in abortion, you make some good points.

  • http://com i41

    Robin, the most effective one is to neutor the sire and the dams that are welfare, for starts. That means startingg in the prisons first, the inmates weren’t just jay walking and usually are gerenerational society misfits, drug users and illegals who are parisites on the wtaxpayers.

    • Robert Smith

      Aren’t they the first ones that Hitler went after?

      Where will it stop with the right wing in control?

      Rob

  • Educated and experienced

    I had a friend who had an abortion and before her abortion she told me that the counselor told her that the baby really wasn’t a baby but just a small piece of flesh like a little worm or something and that it had no form at 12 weeks or so which I have read is totally not true that they do have human form at that age. I believe if there was such a waiting period and counseling such as this, and they showed the mother the actual form at whatever week they are in, I beilieve she would have kept her baby. I say be rid of planned parent hood for murdering my friends baby.

    • Eddie47d

      Your educated but assume the thought process of what your friend would have done. Next time ask her and read up on the good that Planned Parenthood does. Please do be against abortion but stop trying to control someone elses life.

      • Thamera

        Eddie: Asking someone to wait 3 days to make a life altering decision is controlling? How about you read the post just below from MyNita (probably one of the most selfish, hateful and controlling woman on earth) and then comment on the question of control.

        • Robert Smith

          Thelma asks: “Asking someone to wait 3 days to make a life altering decision is controlling?”

          It sure is. Who are YOU to say that all aspects of such a decision haven’t already been considered?

          Do you have so little faith for each woman to decide for herself?

          Rob

          • Thamera

            Robert you have obviously never been a woman finding herself in that situation. 3 days out of a lifetime is nothing.

  • NyNita

    I know if I had a teenage daughter (I’m an older woman, married for a very long time, with one child I CHOSE to have) and she got pregnant, I most assuredly would be dragging her behind to an abortion clinic and forcing her to have one as I would not be a built-in babysitter since I’d already have been done with my childbearing. My adult son has been told in no uncertain terms if he ever got a gal pregnant (whether married or not) that I am never to be considered a built-in babysitter as I’m done with raising kids. Making adult women wait 3 days and go thru FAKE counseling will not change most of their minds if they truly want an abortion. NONE OF THE LAWS THE IDIOT RIGHT WING FAKE CHRISTIANS WANT TO PUT INTO EFFECT WILL STOP ABORTIONS – THEY’VE TAKEN PLACE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME AND WILL CONTINUE UNTIL THE END OF TIME (I PERSONALLY KNOW OF 3 WAYS THAT DO NOT AFFECT THE FEMALE’S FERTILITY, HEALTH, OR WELL-BEING, TO ABORT A CHILD AND IT’S NOT USING BACK ALLEYS AND COAT HANGERS LIKE THE IDIOTS WANT TO RETURN TO).

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      There seems to be an awful lot of I’s in your comments. It’s all about you and your wants and don’t wants. Most normal people love their granchildren want to see them. Not you thoughm not you. Kill em all just so you don’t have to bother. I suggest you teach your daughter to keep her knees together until she gets married, and not some low life-loser, and your son that don’t screw some girl he’s not willing to marry. You are right, far too many grandparents are raising grandchildren. Often it’s because they set a lousy example for their children, didn’t teach them responsibilities, and let them run wild. These aren’t parents, they’re breeders. Their children should be allowed to be born and put up for adoption. Not by you though, it seems you only love yourself.

      • Robert Smith

        From Gunner: ” It’s all about you and your wants and don’t wants.”

        Yup, and all I hear from the right wing is how THEY don’t want to pay for health care, counciling, etc. It costs too much, they don’t deserve it…

        BTW, how can you be “pro-life” and at the same time deny another health care?

        Rob

    • Thamera

      Really MyNita? Who is advocating for back alley’s and coat hangers? You sure make a big stretch there. I feel sorry for your daughter. If you would really march her into an abortion clinic then you are a heartless, control freak. What if your daughter wanted to keep her baby? Maybe you would get the coat hanger out yourself huh seeing that you sure as heck aren’t going to be a built in babysitter. Good thing you only had one kid. Thank you.

  • dawn

    gee I41, you don’t have many friends do you.
    I can see that most of the people here have never had an abortion. And those who know someone who has, still has no idea of what someone goes through. It is not an easy decision to make. And living with it afterwards can be very hard. But so is the idea of adoption. here you’ve lived with this life in you for nine months and then poof, gone. that is not any easier to live with. then there are all these questions . … will they look for me, are they ok. Not any easier knowing they are alive somewhere. And I know some are thinking that living is better , but what if it isn’t. and the kid ends up in the welfare system. haven’t you then just made this new life miserable.
    because you do know that all children are not adopted.? Right?
    The government has no right to tell me what I can and can’t do , concerning these decisions. PERIOD. And all you FAKE CHRISTIANS, throwing stones , stuff it in your bible.
    It’s my choice. and I have to live with my choices not you not anyone else. thank you.

    • iamone3

      Anytime someone kills another human being, we all live with that loss. If you were killing a mass murderer or child molester or rapist, as a society we would be better off without them, but to kill an innocent human being & deprive them of the opportunity to be all they were created to be is just wrong.
      Of course not all children are adopted but that does not mean they can`t have a happy fulfilled life. My mother was an orphan and never adopted, she grew up in an orphans home. She married at 18, raised 6 children, had grandchildren & great grandchildren. She passed away at the ripe old age of 80 but if she were alive today I`m sure she would tell you she Thanked God her mother didn`t abort her. She had a good life, it wasn`t perfect but no ones is.
      I hope you think better about our future generations, we are all affected by others decisions, we don`t live alone in this world you know.

      • Robert Smith

        iamone says: “Anytime someone kills another human being, we all live with that loss.”

        It’s no more “human” than an egg is a chicken or an acorn is a tree.

        If you believe otherwise keep it in your religion where it belongs.

        Rob

        • Bill

          Hey Rob,

          The Bible says “Mary was with child” – not tissue.

          • Robert Smith

            your bible is a reflection of religion.

            America is NOT a part of your religion.

            Quit violating the Constitution.

            Rob

        • iamone3

          Rob, A fertilized egg is a human being in early stages of development. Life begins at conception according to science. I challenge you to find a group of scientists or even one that disagrees with that. Now you have an opinion but it is not based in fact and is therefore useless. You can continue to believe in fairy tales but only until you grow up.

          • Ret

            Developmental Biology, 8th Ed Scott F. Gilbert

            …The catholic church including, both Thomas acquinas and Augustine of hippo, held the view that fetuses were animated (i.e. ensouled) around day 40 around day 40.
            …In the Torah, there is not an explicit prohibition directed against a voluntary abortion.
            …This Christian tradition that disputes the Jewish view apparently resulted from a mistranslation in the Septuagint, where the Hebrew for “no harm follow” was replaced with the Greek for “imperfectly formed” (Jakobovits 1973):
            …In 1701 Pope Clement XI declared the Immaculate Conception a feast of universal obligation, and in 1854 Pius IX incorporated into Catholic dogma the teaching that Mary was without sin for the moment of her conception (Tribe 1990). These beliefs did not coincide with the prior view that the fetus did not acquire a soul until later in pregnancy, so the church had to unite its doctrine so that the act of conception coincided with the beginning of human life.
            …Islamic law regards the fetus as a possible heir that can have his own heirs, but abortion is only punishable when it is done without the fathers consent (Buss 1967).
            … English common law – “quickening,” believed to be the stage when the soul enters the body and the embryo could be felt moving within the uterus, which occurs at about four months.
            … The metabolic view – a single developmental moment marking the beginning of human life does not exist. Both the sperm and egg cells should individually be considered to be units of life in the same respect as any other single or multicellular organism. …the argument over when a new human life begins is irrelevant… development of a child is a smoothly continuous process. Discrete marking points such as the fourteen day dividing line between a zygote and an embryo are entirely artificial constructions of biologists and doctors in order to better categorize development for academic purposes…research that has revealed that fertilization itself is not even an instantaneous event, but rather a process that takes 20-22 hours (Kuhse 1988). … Although the opinion that life begins at fertilization is the most popular view among the public, many scientists no longer support this position, as an increasing number of scientific discoveries seem to contradict it.… the most popular argument against the idea that life begins at the moment of fertilization has been dubbed the “twinning argument.”…it is possible for that zygote to split into two or more zygotes up until 14 or 15 days after fertilization. At that moment a new life begins; the zygote gains a “soul,” in the Catholic line of thought, or “personhood” in a secular line of thought. Then suppose that the zygote splits to form twins. Does the soul of the zygote split as well? No, this is impossible. Yet no one would argue that twins share the same “soul” or the same “personhood.” Thus, supporters of this view maintain that the quality of “soul” or “personhood” must be conferred after there is no longer any potential for twinning. (Shannon and Wolter 1990)

          • iamone3

            Ret,
            Thank you for your response.

            ” …the argument over when a new human life begins is irrelevant…” This is of course Gilberts view but for the purpose of our discussion here it is relevant. The developmental process begins when the sperm & egg connect, starting a chain reaction that culminates with the birth of the child & actually continues through out natural life to the end of that life.

        • Jay

          Hey Robert, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Answer, the chicken, and fully formed, otherwise, where would the egg com from? Dumb dumb!!!

        • GregS

          Robert Smith says:

          “It’s no more “human” than an egg is a chicken or an acorn is a tree.”

          As I said previously, Robert, your analogy is invalid:

          http://www.personalliberty.com/news/south-dakota-law-will-require-three-day-wait-counseling-before-abortions-800468970/#comment-399050

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Dawn, your name should be doom. See my comments above.

      • Robert Smith

        Hey gunner, I’m still waiting for you to explain how anyone who claims to be “pro-life” can deny health care to anyone.

        Rob

        • http://?? Joe H.

          robert,
          i have answered this to you two or three times before but here goes ONE MORE TIME. NOBODY is refused health care in this nation!! It is written on a sign on EVERY ER wall you go to!! most big cities have free clinics, and there is medicaid!! there are also JOBS out there that will allow you to make small payments on your bills as well!!

          • Thamera

            ah, you got to remember Joe, when you are talking to Robert you are talking to an acorn…pretty dense stuff ya know. lol

          • Jana

            Thamera,
            Too good. LOL

        • Jay

          Robert, do you consider partial birth abortion as providing the baby with healthcare? You do know what partial birth abortion is, don’t you? In case you don’t, I will explain it to you. The reason that its called partial birth abortion is because it involves a partial delivery. The baby’s head and up to the shoulders is permitted exist, at which time, a sharp instrument is forced through the baby’s skull and buried into its brain, thus terminating the life of the baby. Do you approve of this procedure? There is also another real neat and barbaric method that is used, you’re gonna love this one, trust me. Extended and very sharp fore snips are inserted through the birth canal, and are then used to literary snip and cut the baby in pieces, snip the legs, snip the arms, and basically snip the baby in multiple pieces, then comes the fun part, the sectioned or dismembered baby is then pulled out one piece at a times and discarded in the TRASH!!! Is this what you mean by healthcare?

          • Robert Smith

            Joe asks: ” You do know what partial birth abortion is, don’t you? ”

            Yes. It is a MEDICAL PROCEDURE late in a pregnancy of a WANTED fetus used to save the life of them woman.

            Rob

          • http://?? Joe H.

            robert,
            First, i didn’t ask that, Jay did! Second, you need to look a little deeper, not all partial birth abortions were due to the health of the woman!! that child was NOT wanted, the birthing was medically started ahead of time!

          • Jay

            JoeH, even if the women’s health is at risk, must the procedure be so BARBARIC!!!! I’ve seen live cam footage of some of these procedures and it was like watching Jason on friday the 13th. These butchers, I noticed seem to enjoy it. In fact one them had a maniacal smile on her face. Unbelievable!!!!

    • Karolyn

      Besides, the spirit that was to be born into that body will have left to come again in another body – or not – as it so chooses.

      • Jana

        Karolyn,
        You know this HOW?

        • Karolyn

          It is what I believe, just as you believe in heaven and hell.

      • Thamera

        Because Jana she is “enlightened” and besides it makes people feel better to believe what she espouses. Karolyn would like to believe that spirits come and go and Robert justify’s the killing of babies by trying to compare them to acorns. A guilty conscious will try to justify anything in order not to feel that way.

        • Karolyn

          Thamera – You don’t know me. How dare you judge. My conscience is clean.

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            We are all supposed to make judgments on what is right or what is wrong. What we are NOT supposed to do is PASS JUDGEMENT, in that you are condemning me to a life of physical torment. Now that would be wrong and you would be in danger of receiving the same type of judgment.
            But to judge whether what you say or what you do not agree with is not the same as passing judgment. You tell us we are wrong all of the time so how do you come to that conclusion? By using your judgment.
            It goes a lot deeper than just judging someone’s actions or words. We have to use these judgments to decide whether or not we would do any of these things ourselves.

          • Thamera

            You know Karolyn, I pity you. Before you even made your admission of having an abortion at 25 it was clear to me by your own posts that you suffer from a guilty conscience. The truth is hard Karolyn and people will do just about anything to absolve themselves from feeling guilty. Do I judge you? No, but your very response in thinking that I am indicates your true self.

      • Jay

        Karolyn, you must stop drinking your bath water!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      dawn,
      And I can see you have never been a man that wants to have kids and will support them and show them love each and every day have to sit back and watch or worry about his girlfriend KILLING his son or daughter!!! I have and it’s definately not right!!

      • Robert Smith

        Hey Joe,

        What gives you the right to devine right or wrong for anyone but yourself?

        Are you smarter than others? Are you more moral than others? Is your religion supperior?

        Tell us Joe, what gives you the right.

        And then explain why the right wants to have “freedon” while at the same time deny it to women about their very own bodies?

        Rob

        • Jay

          Confessions of an Ex-Abortionist
          BERNARD NATHANSON
          Dr. Bernard Nathanson details the deceptions, dirty tricks, and other tactics that helped make abortion legal and socially acceptable in the United States.

          I am personally responsible for 75,000 abortions. This legitimizes my credentials to speak to you with some authority on the issue. I was one of the founders of the National Association for the Repeal of the Abortion Laws in the U.S. in 1968. A truthful poll of opinion then would have found that most Americans were against permissive abortion. Yet within five years we had convinced the Supreme Court to issue the decision which legalized abortion throughout America in 1973 and produced virtual abortion on demand up to birth.

          How did we do this? It is important to understand the tactics involved because these tactics have been used throughout the western world with one permutation or another, in order to change abortion law.

          The First Key Tactic was to capture the media

          We persuaded the media that the cause of permissive abortion was a liberal enlightened, sophisticated one. Knowing that if a true poll were taken, we would be soundly defeated, we simply fabricated the results of fictional polls. We announced to the media that we had taken polls and that 60% of Americans were in favour of permissive abortion. This is the tactic of the self-fulfilling lie. Few people care to be in the minority.

          We aroused enough sympathy to sell our program of permissive abortion by fabricating the number of illegal abortions done annually in the U.S. The actual figure was approaching 100,000 but the figure we gave to the media repeatedly was 1,000,000. Repeating the big lie often enough convinces the public.

          The number of women dying cfrom illegal abortions was around 200 – 250 annually. The figure constantly fed to the media was 10,000. These false figures took root in the consciousness of Americans convincing many that we needed to crack the abortion law. Another myth we fed to the public through the media was that legalizing abortion would only mean that the abortions taking place illegally would then be done legally. In fact, of course, abortion is now being used as a primary method of birth control in the U.S. and the annual number of abortions has increased by 1500% since legalization.

          The Second Key Tactic was to Play the Catholic Card

          We systematically vilified the Catholic Church and its “socially backward ideas” and picked on the Catholic hierarchy as the villain in opposing abortion. This theme was played endlessly. We fed the media such lies as “we all know that opposition to abortion comes from the hierarchy and not from most Catholics” and “Polls prove time and again that most Catholics want abortion law reform.” And the media drum-fired all this into the American people, persuading them that anyone opposing permissive abortion must be under the influence of the Catholic hierarchy and that Catholics in favour of abortion are enlightened and forward-looking. An inference of this tactic was that there were no non-Catholic groups opposing abortion. The fact that other Christian as well as non-Christian religions were (and still are) monolithically opposed to abortion was constantly suppressed, along with pro-life atheists’ opinions.

          The Third Key Tactic was the Denigration and Suppression of all Scientific Evidence that Life Begins at Conception

          I am often asked what made me change my mind. How did I change from prominent abortionist to pro-life advocate? In 1973, I became director of obstetrics of a large hospital in New York City and had to set up a perinatal research unit, just at the start of a great new technology which we now use every day to study the fetus in the womb. A favorite pro-abortion tactic is to insist that the definition of when life begins is impossible; that the question is a theological or moral or philosophical one, anything but a scientific one. Fetology makes it undeniably evident that life begins at conception and requires all the protection and safeguards that any of us enjoy.

          Why, you may well ask, do some American doctors who are privy to the findings of fetology, discredit themselves by carrying out abortions? Simple arithmetic: at $300.00 a time 1.55 million abortions means an industry generating $500,000,000 annually, of which most goes into the pocket of the physician doing the abortion. It is clear that permissive abortion is purposeful destruction of what is undeniably human life. It is an impermissible act of deadly violence. One must concede that unplanned pregnancy is a wrenchingly difficult dilemma. But to look for its solution in a deliberate act of destruction is to trash the vast resourcefulness of human ingenuity, and to surrender the public weal to the classic utilitarian answer to social problems.

          As a scientist I know, not believe, know that human life begins at conception. Although I am not a formal religionist, I believe with all my heart that there is a divinity of existence which commands us to declare a final and irreversible halt to this infinitely sad and shameful crime against humanity.

          ACKNOWLEDGEMENT

          Nathanson, Bernard. “Confessions of an Ex-Abortionist” In The Hand of God: A Journey from Death to Life by the Abortion Doctor Who Changed His Mind Regenery Publishing, 1997.

          For information on purchasing this book, please call (310) 373-0743.

          THE AUTHOR

          Dr. Bernard Nathanson was co-founder in 1969 of the National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws — NARAL — later renamed the National Abortion Rights Action League. He was also the former director of New York City’s Center for Reproductive and Sexual Health, then the largest abortion clinic in the world. In the late 1970’s he turned against abortion to become a prominent pro-life advocate, authoring Abortion America and producing the powerfully revealing video, The Silent Scream. Dr. Nathanson is currently Clinical Associate Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at New York Medical College and a visiting scholar at Vanderbilt University.

          • Thamera

            Again Jay, awesome post with lots of good information :D

          • Jay

            Thamera, isn’t curious that this post received no reply from the Adams Family; Karolyn, Robert, Coal miner and Bob wire? Why do you suppose? Interesting, don’t you think? I suspect they have, and upon reading it, no doubt, lost control of their bladders!!!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          What gives me that right robert? the FACT that that child was mine just as much as it was hers gives me that right!! so you can go straight to he!!, don’t pass go and damn sure don’t collect 200dollars!!

  • Bill

    Dawn,

    I empathize with your confusion,as well as any other woman,about your having a “choice” in the matter of abortion. Having been a counselor in a Pregnancy Counseling Center, and dealing with both sides of the equation, female, and surprise – the male too! I can emphasize here women only have the “choice” in the matter of who,what, where, when, how, they will conceive a child.Once conception begins, they are spiritually bound to bring forth this gift of life, there is no choice left, except to decide a name for the child.

    Today’s’ society has created the illusion that a woman has dominion over her body. The real truth, which has long been abandoned , is that none of us control our bodies. Our bodies belong to God, they are temples.However, there is a Biblical directive where spouses have dominion over each others bodies,but that doesn’t apply here. Your claim that it is your choice and you will have to live with the consequences, leads me to contemplate that you truly do not understand the psychological trauma that haunts a woman that has fallen victim to the deception of abortion.

    My prayer would be that you will never have to confront this catastrophic reality, and that you will search your conscience to make better life decisions.

    • Robert Smith

      From Bill: “they are spiritually bound to bring forth this gift of life,”

      Keep your religion out of anyone else’s business. This is America.

      Rob

      • Bill

        And it is because of religion that this is America.

        • Robert Smith

          Actually it isn’t. Quit lyiing.

          Rob

          • Bill

            Rob,

            I don’t desire to play intellectual ping-pong with you. But our government buildings (Supreme Court for example) are covered with the religious symbols. Even our Congress starts ou each meeting with prayer.Should I go on? Do your research before you engage in a dialogue.

          • Robert Smith

            Bill says: ” But our government buildings (Supreme Court for example) are covered with the religious symbols. ”

            They are also covered with Masonic symbols. Will you accept their tennants?

            Rob

        • Thamera

          Bill: not to worry, you can’t play intellectual ping pong with Robert because he lacking intelligence. He has already established, after all, that he is an acorn.

      • Jay

        Robert, keep your atheistic religion to yourself and stop pushing it on others, this America, a Christian nation.

        • Oh Dear

          Dear Jay – Atheism is not a religion.
          And Robert isn’t pushing anything onto anybody.
          Have the courage to let people choose what they wish even if you disagree with it.
          “America is a christian nation” ?
          Perhaps you’d better appraise yourself of the teachings of Jesus because America certainly does not adhere to those teachings.
          Hoodwinked, indoctrinated and misguided, I’m afraid you are labouring under a misapprehension.

          • Jay

            Oh Dear, you are sadly wrong and confused, it is a religion!

          • Jay

            Atheism is a religion, and you and your bunch are its proselytes. As for your claim that you do not practice your atheistic religion and that you do not impose it on anyone, sadly, and again, you are wrong. You have been pickled and marinated in the atheistic religion from the time you were born, in your home and in your schools, by the hours of mindless television you have watched and to the mindless music you have listened to for years. It was all around you, it permeates our very planet. And by default, you imbibe it, and are its disciple, you breathed it, and are unknowingly its most ardent proselyte. On the other hand, Christianity is not a religion, its a Relationship!!!

          • Jana

            Oh Dear,

            Wow what a misnomer, as you are no dear. As far as the United States not adhering to the teaching of Jesus Christ, you are right to a large degree. Do you know why we don’t follow His teachings any better than we do? GO LOOK IN THE MIRROR. It is BECAUSE of people like YOU and ROBERT and COAL MINER etc. who love to twist the truth to fit your sick distrotions.

          • Karolyn

            Jay – Atheism does not fit the parameters to be called a religion.

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            Tell that to Madelyn Murray O’Hair. She claimed it was.

    • Karolyn

      Bill – I can tell you it’s not as traumatic as you might think. Everyone’s different. I can’t see how a man can counsel a woman on abortion. Also, we DO have dominion over our bodies, which are just temporary housing for your spirits.

  • Bill

    Karolyn,

    I don’t know if you are speaking from experience or not, but the mechanical invasion of the innocent,indefensible body of the baby is extremely traumatic – where the natural protection that it expects to have by it’s mother has been denied. As for the dominion aspect, that is inclusive of any mental decision that is contrary to the Word of God -including abortion. The procedure is not as antiseptic as the picture that you paint. Only a woman with a misguided sense of reasoning can truly wipe away the gift of life that is destined to grow in her womb. A woman with a heart of stone,there is no valid rationale for murder.

    • Robert Smith

      I’ll bet you really don’t think much of women, do you Bill.

      I’ll bet you don’t think much of gays, blacks, and a fet other minorities.

      Rob

      • Robert Smith

        Note: I didn’t say Bill hates women and minorities.

        But that’s the way I’ll bet. Hey, ain’t I allowed an opinion? I’m willing to put my money at risk.

        Rob

        • Thamera

          so am I Robert, and I would be willing to be everything I have on Bill. And yes, keep up with your loud mouth, dim-witted, half-brained, opinions…it is quite entertaining especially coming from an acorn. Really, that is the best analogy I’ve heard yet.

        • Jay

          Robert, you should really be worried about putting your integrity at risk, not your money! Have some priorities!!!

      • Bill

        Robert,

        My approach to the subject of homosexuality is grounded on Biblical principles. So, I hate the sin, but love the sinner.Does that answer your question?

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Bob; the old tactic of accusing everyone who disagrees with the liberal format as racist, chauvinist, or homophobe is worn out. How about the fact that we just disagree with something that is inheritently evil. There is such things as right and wrong.

        • Robert Smith

          I think it is evil that some use religion to abuse others.

          Why not let them live their lives and your brutal god sort them out? Are you trying to outguess your god?

          Rob

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Bob; you know I’m not a muslim.

      • Jay

        Robert, it is abundantly clear, that you, sir, are completely bereft of even the common sense that God gave to an animal. You are to be pitied, Robert, and sadly, pity is all I can offer you. However, I would like to offer you a good and timely advice. Examine yourself, Robert, honestly and truly examine yourself, and if you do, you will note the depravity that is like a cancer in your soul. You will not, however, be able to fathom the length and breadth of your depravity, but its discovery, will be to your benefit and advantage should you ever wish to have any chance, to escape your dark and evil dungeon.

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Jay, I like myself. Your “opinion” rooted in your religion is BS.

          Rob

          • Thamera

            Considering the content of your posts Robert, I am beginning to wonder if you are not really a guilt ridden, hate filled woman who has had multiple abortions and cannot live with the consequences of her actions…or perhaps you perform abortions yourself? After all you did give us a good herbal remedy to kick that unwanted party guest out of the house…why else would you be so completely threatened by a 3 day waiting period almost to the point of emotional breakdown? I wonder…

          • Jana

            Thamara,
            One thing we do know for sure is that Robert is a bully.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Thamera,
            you know, you could be right. It could be ROBERTA!!!!

    • Karolyn

      That just shows how much you don’t know Bill.

      • Jana

        Karolyn,
        In a lot of things you do have substance, but this last statement shows none.

        • Thamera

          ditto that Jana

        • Karolyn

          Jana – I’m referring the the “woman with a heart of stone” remark. That is way out of line. I cannot understand how some people can judge a person’s heart – how they feel inside – by their own feelings. Alright, I’m coming out of the closet. I had an abortion when I was 25, right after I got married. We were both on drugs, with no money; and it would not have been a pretty sight had we had a child at that time. There! Done! I am not cold-hearted, rather I am an extremely sensitive person who loves people, focusing my energies on helping others. I was not traumatized by the situation, and it did not haunt me for the rest of my life. I have occasionally thought about it but not much at all – more in the context of how old that person would be today and how different my life would have turned out. That marriage did not last. I never had kids out of choice.

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            How old that person might have been? Not how old my child might have been?
            WOW.
            No wonder the comment “heart of stone” got to you. How sad.

  • Joe Belfiore

    Wow. Congratulations. It’s about time that somebody important took a stand to turn the killing of the unborn. Your State will be blessed mightily for this. I suggest that you have the mothers view the sonogram of their babies. They will see that, in spite of what Planned Noparenthood says, this is not a scrap of tissue, it’s a living human baby. Thank you South Dakota

    • bob wire

      and can you tell us when they were “unborn”?

      It’s been a long day and I missed much of this thread, I’d love to have been there with you guys.

      maybe tomorrow.

      • Thamera

        Yes bob w. and it has been repeated and if you want to see for yourself, check out the Bodies exhibit and see how much doubt that leaves in your mind of when a fetus should have the right to life.

    • Jay

      Joe Belfiore, you will never convince the selfish and blood thirsty pro-abortion crowd. As much as they claim that its about a woman’s choice, at heart, and closer to the truth, they despise the human race as well as themselves.

      • Karolyn

        A totally ridiculous and off-the-wall remark with no merit whatosever. Where do you get these ideas Jay? Does it make you feel better about yourself to say things like this about people? Really. I just don’t understand.

        • Jana

          Karolyn,
          …and sadly, you probably never will. I hope you will though, one day, understand.

          • Karolyn

            Jana – How can anyone say of another person that they despise the human race and themselves? I will repeat, how can anyone judge what is in the heart of another? Awfully God-like if you ask me. It really seems to me that is yet another way some people put themselves above others. In simple terms they see themselves as “holier-than-thou.” Totally unfathomable to me. I judge no one and would never presume to guess what is another person’s heart, especially without knowing the person!

          • Jana

            Karolyn,
            You judge people quite often and we have all seen you do it, however you don’t pass judgement.

            We are all supposed to make judgments on what is right or what is wrong. What we are NOT supposed to do is PASS JUDGEMENT, in that you are condemning me to a life of physical torment. Now that would be wrong and you would be in danger of receiving the same type of judgment.
            But to judge whether what you say or what you do not agree with is not the same as passing judgment. You tell us we are wrong all of the time so how do you come to that conclusion? By using your judgment.
            It goes a lot deeper than just judging someone’s actions or words. We have to use these judgments to decide whether or not we would do any of these things ourselves.

            You ask how can anyone judge what is in the heart of another? You reveal what is in your heart by the way and by what you write. Look at Robert, we can tell what is in his heart as he has revealed it quite well.

            No one has the right to pass judgement on you, and we haven’t.
            In fact I don’t think anyone thinks of you as a bad person. You are coming from a totally different perpective and you are not obnoxious, in many ways I see you as innocent. I actually think you have a good heart, even though I disagree with you most of the time, you don’t have an evil or mean heart. This is my observation, my discernment, and my judgement. I am not passing judgement on you to give you any punishment, I can’t. That is not my job. By the way, I wouldn’t want that job.

          • Robert Smith

            Jana says: “We are all supposed to make judgments on what is right or what is wrong.”

            For yourself.

            Who are you to make judgments for another when the brutal christian god gave everyone free will?

            Rob

          • Karolyn

            Jana – I agree with you. I was speaking of those words used to describe pro-choice people as “despising the human race” and “bloodthirsty.” They did not come from you. I believe that definitely is passing judgment. I think those who use such words have anger in their hearts and speak from that rather than a place of love, which is what Jesus taught.

        • Jay

          Karolyn, only God has the right to take life because only He can create it!

          • Robert Smith

            Posted: “only God has the right to take life because only He can create it.”

            Actually false.

            Check out: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/biology_evolution/article7132299.ece

            Rob

          • Vigilant

            RS once AGAIN gives us a dead end link.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            5)http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1279988/Artificial-life-created-Craig-Venter–wipe-humanity.html

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
          • Vigilant

            And now, coal miner provides links that prove nothing he claims it to be. Nothing done in the experiments cited have created life.

            One simple definition of creating life is taking completely inanimate materials and infusing them with the spark we call “life.” No such thing has been done, and it’s pure tablod journalism and “junk science” to make such a claim.

            Any idiot, and that includes both RS and coal miner, should have enough brain cells to see what was actually accomplished in the experiments, i.e., the placing of artificial DNA into LIVING cells. Thus, it was not creating any life at all, it was modifying existing life.

            You athiests will snatch at any straw to make bogus claims that man can create life. It just ain’t so. Why don’t you have the manhood to admit it?

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
          • Oh Dear

            Here it is again, that good old misapprehension Jay – There IS NO god.

          • Jay

            Vigilant, that was pure brilliance! Bulls eye!!!

          • Jay

            Oh dear, prove it! No proof is not proof that God doesn’t exist. Hope that doesn’t give you a brain cramp, you little dumbbell!

  • CJM

    Leave the abortion issue alone. If you want the return of the backyard butchers, then repeal the law. Quite frankly, I don’t think any posters here have ever read or viewed the graphic photos and death files of young girls and women who were victimized by these butchers. Nor do you seem to recall the countless numbers of deaths that resulted from these freaks. If you had, you wouldn’t be so darn quick to demand the repeal of Roe v Wade. Women in China use sticks to abort their fetus; women in other countries find other drastic means to accomplish the same thing. And quite frankly, if the male gender would learn to behave himself there wouldn’t be as many unwanted pregnancies. Young girls should be raised that pre-marital sex does have consequences, including an abortion. This is a SOCIAL ISSUE that the PARENTS CAN CONTROL IF THEY WANT TO. What are you hoping for–teachers in our classrooms to FORCE our children to learn the NEA brand of sex education that includes very graphic lessons on orgasims, oral sex, etc (as noted in a recent article where NEA backed US teachers testified at the UN to accomplish this)? And parents will have NO say in the matter if this is allowed.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      CJM,
      I see you are either female or gay!!! If the MALES would behave themselves???? It takes two to make a child!!! That FEMALE BETTER LEARN TO BEHAVE AS WELL!!!

    • Thamera

      Okay CJM, because you said so we are all going to leave the abortion issue alone now. Besides, it doesn’t really matter, according to Robert we are nothing more than acorns, so what is the problem? LOL!!! But yes, parents play a very important role in their children’s lives and I also agree with you Joe, women are every bit as responsible as men…isn’t that what the feminist movement has been telling us for decades? Bring it on!

      • Thamera

        Oh, and CJM how do you make the leap from a 3 day waiting period to the return of “backyard butchers”? No one is advocating for that, well, except maybe Robert who sees no problem in butchering a baby, I mean parasite, oh I mean, unwanted party guest, Oh, I mean acorn…ooops, sorry Robert….lol

      • Robert Smith

        From thamera: “according to Robert we are nothing more than acorns,”

        Quit lying about what I’ve posted.

        Rob

        • Thamera

          Again, not even worth the time to comment except if I had more time I would love to count how many times you have called people “liars” on this post. LMAO

          • Jana

            Thamera,
            I stopped counting at 19. 19 different posts, and sometimes he even said the word several times in one post. It tells us a lot about his character. He is a bully and he tells lies. Sad pathetic little old man.

    • http://deleted Claire

      Abortion will continue, with or without the bill. There are plenty of quacks out there right now that have butchered women, and this will continue. Remember the baby killer in Pennsylvania? And God knows where else these lowlife are, they will do anything for the almighty dollar. Abortions compared to guns– the bad guys will always get their guns, the uneducated/frantic women will continue to find quack doctors for their abortions.

      • Jana

        cLAIRE,

        All the bill states is that there be a 3 day waiting period.
        *******
        patients will be required to get counseling at a “pregnancy help center” before the procedure, CNN reported.

        ***********

        Here in Texas they are passing a law that states that planned parenthood or whoever must let the mother hear the heartbeat and maybe even see the pics of the baby in the womb. They take them automatically, so they have to OFFER the girl the choice as to whether she wants to see them or not. Most of the time the girls aren’t even aware that these things are done let alone be available for them to see.

        This is definitely not saying that abortion will be eliminated. Too many times these young girls panick and think they have no other choices, so they just want all of the girls to be able to make informed decisions.

        • http://deleted Claire

          My point was that there will still be abortions, with or without the 3-day waiting period, with or without the bill, there will still be women that do not want a baby.

          • Jana

            Claire,
            I knew what you were talking about, I was just clarifying it. :)

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            If they still want the abortion then they should also be sterilized.

          • http://deleted Claire

            gunner689–This is what the government did to Native American Women back in the 60s and early 70s—but these women were not pregnant-they went in for other issues and ended up being sterilized.

    • Jay

      I see CJM, better the butchers we know then the butchers we don’t know. Your kind of logic will keep both butchers gainfully employed.

  • JoAnne

    Hmmm, maybe Robert should have been aborted?

    • Jay

      JoAnne, I think deep down, Robert secretly wishes he had been aborted! He sounds like a very sad and lost soul. We should pray for his deliverance..

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        We wish you were.

        • Jay

          See, there you go again, black coal miner, admitting you despise the human race! That is precisely why you condone abortion! You were pickled and marinated in the atheistic religious cesspool, and your hate for the human race is the result!!!

  • Oh Dear

    Could someone please tell me exactly how much it does cost for an abortion, the real actual cost in dollars ?
    Actual figures only please.

  • Jay

    It is surprisingly curious, that a majority of people today may be under the assumption that the legally instituted and politically protected medical procedure known as abortion, suddenly appeared, unaided, in 1973. And, may not be aware of the history regarding a “process” that ultimately culminated into a world wide acceptance of abortion. Few, who have applied themselves to the task, have traced the genesis or history of this process, or, “public relations campaign”, as some have called it, to the first century.

    Plato and Aristotle both recommended family growth limitation through abortion. But upon closer examination of the social norms and values system that permeated society in the first century, as they do today, reveals a variety of reasons that concealed themselves behind the “family growth limitation through abortion” recommendation, for fear, it appears, of discrediting the campaign to naturalize abortion.

    But, if we are to achieve a more comprehensive perspective with respect to this issue we cannot afford to disregard or exclude human behaviour.

    One of the reasons, for example, for the use of abortion in the first century that is not often mentioned, was for the concealment of illicit sex. If one could hide or remove the evidence, then the argument follows that one could remove or conceal the stigma.

    For obvious reasons, rich women of that period that would engage in illicit sexual affairs would do so with men outside of their economic or social class.

    Naturally, since contraceptive methods lacked the level of sophistication that we benefit from today, the probability of a successful pregnancy was very high.

    In order to avoid, upon death, the transfer of wealth to an illegitimate offspring, as well as to avoid the stigma of an illicit affair that would other wise, if left unadrressed, compromise the reputation of the family, the option to abort would naturally be exercised.

    Abortion was also used as a way to preserve sex-appeal that would otherwise diminish, should the pregnancy be carried to term.

    Additionally, abortion was also used to eliminate the threat to one’s freedom.

    And lastly, abortion was considered to be an effective form of contraception.

    It should be noted, that the disagreement with respect to this issue that is present today, was also manifest in the first century. As it is today, the principal participants, church, state and the judicial system were engaged in heated debate, with the citizenry included, but mostly as a peripheral consideration.

    The methods, or medical abortive techniques used, varied. For example, substances were introduced into the womb through the birth canal, such as oral drugs or poisons, as they were called, mixtures that were mixed for the purpose of proving fatal to the unborn infant.

    Another was to bind the body using rope or undersized clothing with the intention of exerting sufficient pressure to the womb so as to suffocate, or literary squash the unborn infant.

    Still another, was to first locate the infant in the womb, and by the use of hard objects, sharp blades and at times hooks, the practitioner(s) would then engage in assaulting the unborn residing in the womb.

    The items or reasons listed above that were employed to access abortion, each were given specific moral allocations, according to each individuals unique set of values or morals. But since no individual in a society is a law onto himself, and societal stability should and must rule the day, it then became incumbent upon the organs created for the purpose of societal stability, to address the issue. And it is here, that each institution, one might propose, engaged in a public relations campaign that was specifically tailored to each institutions unique set of values or principals.

    It is widely agreed, that a debate must be for the purpose, to test, through rigorous argumentation, the integrity of a presupposition, ultimately to confirm or disqualify, and, to further drive the nail to support the necessity for this particular debate, the opposition that stood firmly against sanctioning abortion, were of the conviction, that the family growth limitation through abortion proposal, if left unadrressed, would have an unacceptable, identity altering impact on an individual, and concomitant to that, a devastating and disfiguring effect on the fundamental identity of a society.

    It is important to clarify, for the purpose of sequential integrity, to mark the genesis or birth of the argument that expressed concern for the injurious effects on individual and collective identity, to the religious conviction, that a human being displayed and reflected a sacred component, and, that all human beings were created with an indelible mark or image of its creator, and as such, must not only be reverently recognized but scrupulously guarded, as the progenitor and fundamental operating principal in the debate. And this operating principal mentioned, is indeed, the catalyst that ignited the debate, and finally, it is the only defence afforded to the unborn…

    • Thamera

      thank you for taking the time to post this Jay, sincerely.

  • Bill

    Jay,

    Thank you for the historical perspective on this subject. Would you please share your source of information with us?

    • Bill

      I have noticed there are a variety of opinions on the Abortion issue; however there are no referral sources here available to those in search of answers. So, I will start the ball rolling by referring the following website. rachelsvineyard.org/ It has a comprehensive assistance network manned by qualified professionals rendering assistance from :

      * Personal encouragement
      * Relationships
      * Women’s Health
      * Sexual Abuse
      * Grief and Loss
      * Alcohol Abuse
      * Marriage and Annulment
      * Men’s Issues /Lost Fatherhood

    • Jay

      Bill, the historical data on abortion that I used to construct my article can be found on gracetoyou.org

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    coal,

    Hosea, chapter 13, verse 16 (chapter 14, verse 1 in some translations): “Samaria will be made waste, for she has gone against her God: they will be cut down by the sword, their little children will be broken on the rocks, their women who are with child will be cut open.”

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      Abotion, any one?

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      4)God tells the Israelites to make slaves out of their neighbors and their families. The “heathens” and “strangers” are to be their possessions forever. 25:44-46

      • Karolyn

        That sounds like Islam, as understood by most people in this group.

        • Vigilant

          Karolyn,

          Kindly understand that most Christians no longer accept nor advocate the Draconian measures outlined in Leviticus, Numbers, and other OT passages. Modern civilized societies do not subscribe, for example, to stoning people to death for relatively minor infractions.

          Sharia Law, on the other hand, takes the Koran seriously and literally in its brutal “remedies” for these infractions.

          Your comparison is therefore faulty and denies reality.

          • Jana

            Vigilant,
            Of course you realize he is getting his information from the
            The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible – http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ – is a website dedicated to pointing out all of the supposed errors, contradictions, and discrepancies in the Bible. The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible divides the supposed errors into the following categories: injustice, absurdity, cruelty and violence, intolerance, contradictions, family values, women, good stuff, science and history, prophecy, sex, language, interpretation, and homosexuality. It is not the purpose of this article to refute every issue the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible raises (there are over 6,000).

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jana,
            They ought to make every abortion supporter go in and WATCH an ABORTION FROM START TO FINISH!!! IN PERSON!! Make them see a sonogram and hear the heart beat as well!! Don’t let them look away!!! Bet there would be a lot less of them then!!

          • Jana

            You know Joe,
            I can’t even imaginge watching an abortion but that would be a good thing to have most of them do. Some people are so cold hearted it would not matter even if the baby cried.

      • Jay

        God ordered the destruction of sixty cities because in those cities dwelt the evil giants and their hybrid offspring. They worshipped Satan, and sacrificed their innocent little children to Molech. When children were sacrificed they were also eaten; in an attempt {or mockery} of Satan to counterfeit God’s sacrifice of animals. In these festivals {which were also counterfeits of God’s holy festivals}, they held sexual orgies, and mingled themselves with every kind of evil. When they cast their firstborn into the fires of Molech, they danced to loud music and drums, to drown out the screams of their little children who were being burnt alive. God wanted them out of the land that he promised to Abraham and his seed. And he knew if any of them were left, that eventually the Israelites would get involved in their pagan rituals and sacrifice.

        However, against God’s instructions, the Israelites made covenants with some of the kings of that land, that they would not take their cities nor kill their inhabitants. And the very thing God said would happen, happened. The Israelite ten tribes, that had broken away from the other two tribe, soon took up the ways of the heathen, and were sacrificing their own little children to Molech. They were cast out of Canaan and carried away by the Assyrians.

        Then the tribes of Judah and Benjamin {and half tribe of Levi} also fell into the worship of demon gods; joining in their abominable festivals and sacrificing their children. They too met with the same fate of the other ten tribes, and God became very angry with them, and he came down in a chariot, powered by the cherubim, and sent Ezekiel to pronounce judgment upon them, You can read about this in the book of Ezekiel, chapters 1 through 17.

        The killing of those Canaanites was a mercy killing, their children would have grown up practicing that Satanic religion, and thousands of children would have died in the agony in the fires of Molech.

      • Jay

        For those of you who only remember the whale part of Jonah’s story, here is a brief synopsis to get you a better background about Jonah.

        God called Jonah to travel to the city of Nineveh to warn them about their impending judgment, because of their wickedness.

        2 Jonah had different ideas, and attempted to flee from God by paying for passage on a foreign ship.
        3 However, God was not amused and sent a violent storm.
        4 The sailors were terrified and eventually figured out that Jonah was the cause of their endangerment, which he eventually admitted to them.
        5 Jonah was thrown overboard and God directed a great fish (or whale – the Hebrew is not that specific) to swallow Jonah and take him to the shore.
        6 Once expelled from the whale, Jonah decided to do what God had originally requested and travelled to Nineveh to preach repentance from their evil.

        A number of Christians assume Jonah was reluctant to go to Nineveh because they were known for their cruelty, and he feared for his life. However, the account gives a different reason why Jonah did not want to go.
        Jonah actually wanted God to judge the city of Nineveh and kill all their inhabitants. He was disappointed that the king and the people repented of their evil and were spared from God’s judgment.

        8 In fact, Jonah was so angry with God that he asked God to kill him.
        9 After that conversation, Jonah left the city and sat outside of it hoping that God would still destroy the city.
        10 God caused a plant to grow overnight to give Jonah shade during his watch, but then caused the death of the plant the next day. Jonah was furious about the plant.
        11 God pointed out that Jonah’s priorities were completely messed up, since he was more concerned about a plant that gave him shade than the fate of 120,000 souls in Nineveh:

        Then the LORD said, “You had compassion on the plant for which you did not work and which you did not cause to grow, which came up overnight and perished overnight. Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?” (Jonah 4:10-11)

        So, it was clear to Jonah that God was merciful and He would reconsider His judgment of evil if the people repented.
        12 Since Jonah wanted no part in God’s mercy, he tried to avoid following God’s instructions to warn the people.

      • Jay

        If you were to read atheist’s websites, you will often find complaints that the God of the Bible arbitrarily ordered the destruction of entire cities, such as Jericho, just to allow the Jews to have a homeland in the Middle East.

        How could a loving God command the destruction of all those “innocent” people? The argument sounds good, but it is utterly false. The unstated assumption is that the people who God ordered destroyed were morally equivalent to the Jews, who replaced them. However, this is what the Bible says about the people who were destroyed:

        “It is not for your righteousness or for the uprightness of your heart that you are going to possess their land, but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD your God is driving them out before you, in order to confirm the oath which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Deuteronomy 9:5)

        Okay, how “wicked” could those people have been? How about killing their own sons and daughters by burning them in sacrifices to their gods:

        “You shall not behave thus toward the LORD your God, for every abominable act which the LORD hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods. (Deuteronomy 12:31)

        The wickedness of these people is confirmed in other verses of the Bible. So we see that these people are not quite as innocent as the atheists would like you to believe. Then again, maybe those atheists believe that killing your children is not all bad. After all, killing viable pre-born babies is legal in this country (it’s called a choice, a.k.a. abortion). For these reasons (and others), God ordered the destruction of the peoples whom the Israelites dispossessed.

        Did God kill any innocent people along with the evil ones?

        When God was about to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham asked God if He would destroy the cities if there were 50 righteous people in them. God said no. Then Abraham asked the same question if there were 45 righteous people. Every time he dropped the number he got the same answer.

        The fact is that God would not have destroyed those cities if there were any righteous people in them.

        The few righteous who were in those cities He warned ahead of time to get out. So, God does not destroy the righteous along with the evil.

        • Jana

          Jay,
          You did coal miners homework for him.
          Excellent posts. In the end all evil will be destroyed. Everyone has an equal chance to honor and love the Lord. Some refuse to take it, and some would rather serve Satan. FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

          • Jay

            Had to do it Jana, I couldn’t let him lie like that and Slander God, and His Word. Had to expose coal miner for the liar that he is!!! God Bless!

          • Jana

            Jay, I understand completely.
            I will also no longer respond to Robert as it is casting our pearls before swine to do so. He is happy in his life serving Satan and I am wiping the dust off my feet and moving on.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jay and Jana

            That what I printed is no lie.That came straight from the mythical Bible.Don’t call me a liar,it makes you look like a fool.

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Jay,

          What about children and babies?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            coal miner,
            you old reprobate, don’t fake concern for children, NOW!!! You support their demise!!

        • Oh Dear

          Stories, stories, stories.

  • iamone3

    If anyone can name a group of scientists or even one that disputes that human life begins at conception and ends at death, please do so. Also when were the terms embryo and fetus first used. I have never heard anyone say a pregnant woman is carrying an embryo or fetus. Always it is said she is with child. When she shops there are no departments for fetuses or embryos in the stores. She always goes to the baby dept. I have two daughters that are in their forties now, but were seven month preemies. The age of “viability” is less with each new advancement in medicine and I hope one day the transfer of very early stage development into another womb will make abortion obsolete.

  • iamone3

    Waiting three days and receiving counseling is a good thing, why the rush to killing an innocent human being?

  • Mirjana

    That is right. Abortion is a killing of a human being. There can not be a double standard here. When I want a baby and someone hurts the baby in my belly, then I can sue them. But if I do not want the baby, than it is not a baby, and I can kill it. What kind of messages does this send to our children and the rest of society? Anything is justified if I want it.
    That is why we have so many criminals. People are confused about the rules. We have lost the respect for human life, which is the main cause of the deteriorating of this society in all aspects. I congratulate South Dakota legislators for requesting the 3 day counseling. But the counseling should start much earlier. We should teach our children on responsible sex.

    • iamone3

      I agree with you, and this mixed messages are confusing everyone especially our children. South Dakota did the right thing and I hope even more states follow their example.

  • Jay

    Critical info all pro-life Americans must be aware of!!!!

    This glossary has been compiled to aid all pro-life Americans in their struggle against the alien and destructive philosophy that has gripped our land in the guise of enhancing freedom. It includes a variety of new terms and its purpose is extremely serious. It is an effort to equip the pro-life side with new understanding and tools to change the terms of the debate.

    Particular attention should be directed toward the concept of Abortionism and such terms as sadistician, necrochoicer, necropimping, medi-whore, depravigentsia, Birthist, Sentiencist, babyectomy, gravida, Intrinsicism and Extrinsicism, abortionthink, Abortionite Klansmen, Pontius Pilate Posture, medicide, Abortionspeak, necronym, Slaveraid, irreversibility and intra-uterine viability.

    Efforts have been made to demonstrate the links between prenatal child-killing and other historic violations of human rights as well as with such political and ethical subjects as Just War Theory, Orwellian totalitarianism and political correctness. It is hoped that widespread use of the terminology set forth herein will help expose the true nature of the underlying philosophy of prenatal child-killing, put the hard-core necrochoicers on the defensive, and demoralize or even win over their soft-core allies.

    The emphasis is on the foundation philosophy of human rights (called “Intrinsicism”) which this author believes has universal appeal and will therefore be far more effective than any approach based on religion or the sanctity of life. A companion article on Abortionism is available and recommended for a more detailed discussion.

    ABC: Abortionite Broadcasting Company. A communications network peopled by Abortionites who censor and slant news and information to promote the Birthist Abortionite agenda.

    ABLE-IST: An individual who believes in aborting the rights of others, sometimes to the point of justifying their destruction, on the basis of their abilities or handicaps. A member of the Utilitarianist sect of Abortionism. See also UTILITARIANIST and FUNCTIONALIST.

    ABORTION: A euphemism used to describe the poisoning or live dismemberment of prenatal children without benefit of anesthesia. Frequently used in this glossary to include any abrogation of human rights under the philosophy of Abortionism. In this context it is a sacrament of the cult of Abortionism.

    ABORTION CLINIC (or KLINIK): A temple of the Birthist sect of the Abortionite cult wherein their sacrament of prenatal human sacrifice is practiced.

    ABORTIONISM: The world’s oldest and most destructive idolatrous cult whose central dogma holds that human rights are conditionally granted or denied to powerless people by powerful people based on whatever criteria the powerful choose to recognize. Those who do not meet the Abortionite criteria for inclusion may have their rights summarily aborted through Abortionite sacraments (crimes) at any time. The criteria, which define the various sects of the cult(Racist, Sexist, Birthist, Creedist, Classist, Utilitarianist, etc.), may include ethnicity, sex, birth, religion, social or economic class, and abilities. The term “Abortionism” also refers to the underlying philosophy of the cult.

    ABORTIONIST: An unethical physician who has chosen to abandon the ethical norms of the medical profession and prostitute his or her medical skills to destroy prenatal human life.

    ABORTIONITE: Of or pertaining to the cult of Abortionism. Also, a member of any sect of the cult of Abortionism.

    ABORTIONITE BLIND SPOT: The defect in the conscience of Abortionites resulting from the practice of abortionthink such that the target population of the particular Abortionite sect has ceased to exist in the Abortionite’s mind as human persons. It is for this reason that Abortionites just don’t get it when it comes to understanding oppostion to their sacraments (crimes).

    ABORTIONITE CLIFF: A metaphorical ethical precipice over which a society will plummet when it abandons the high moral plateau in which all human life is protected unconditionally. Often more generously described as a slippery slope. American society has been in free fall over this precipice since Roe v. Wade.

    ABORTIONITE KLANSMEN: Abortionites, especially those of the Birthist sect, who will continue to practice their sacraments even after they have been outlawed, because they have been taught by experience that they have a right to do so. The Ku Klux Klan is the best known example, although they are members of the Racist sect. Similarly, Birthist Abortionites have made plans to continue their sacrament of prenatal child-killing underground should the protection of law be restored to prenatal children.

    ABORTIONITE SACRAMENT:
    ABORTIONITE SECT: One of the subdivisions of the cult of Abortionism which can be identified by the criteria by which it targets human populations for exclusion from the human community and ultimately for abortion of their fundamental human rights. The major Abortionite sects include Racist, Sexist, Birthist, Classist, Creedist and Utilitarianist. There is much overlap among them, the most highly developed Abortionites being convinced that exclusion should apply to anyone not like themselves.

    ABORTIONITE SYNDROME: The full range of characteristics common to practicing Abortionites including mastery of abortionthink, fluency in Abortionspeak and possession of a fully developed Abortionite blind spot. Individuals who possess these skills are capable of looking at piles of bodies, whether prenatal children or death camp victims stacked in ovens, and not see human beings.

    ABORTIONITE SYNOD: An hypothetical conference of representatives of all Abortionite sects which could never actually be held due to their proclivity for aborting each other.

    ABORTIONITE TEMPLE: A facility in which Abortionite sacraments and other forms of Abortionite worship and religious formation are practiced. A number of temples were operated secretly in Europe by the Racist sect in the 1930′s and 1940′s but the Birthist sect openly operates many temples in many countries today. See also ABORTUARY.

    ABORTIONMONGER: An Abortionite, especially one of the Birthist sect, for whom the lives of prenatal children or other target populations have no significance at all. One who enthusiastically promotes abortion as a positive solution for a multitude of problems.

    ABORTION RIGHTS: An oxymoron used by Birthist Abortionites, abortionmongers, necrochoicers and the like to describe and defend a state of anarchy with respect to protecting the lives of prenatal children and abuses of freedom that destroy human lives both prenatally and postnatally. See also CHILD-KILLING

    PRIVILEGES.
    ABORTION RITES: Actions surrounding the sacrifice of prenatal children or other target populations to Abortionite idols, to include any pre-mortem examinations, usually conducted in an Abortionite temple by the Birthist sect. Suggested usage in preference to the oxymoron “abortion rights”.

    ABORTIONSPEAK: A dialect of Orwell’s Newspeak used by Abortionites to deny the realities of their sacraments (murder, slavery, etc.) and thereby enable doublethink. Used extensively in present day America by the Birthist sect to confuse the unconverted population and thereby confound effective action against their sacrament of child-killing. Very effective for necropimping.

    ABORTIONTHINK: Doublethink with respect to the value of life, holding in the case of the Birthist sect of Abortionism that prenatal life is both inviolable under the ethic of sanctity of life and also disposable at any time for any reason. Also, the rationalizing process of devaluing the life of another sufficiently to justify destroying that life with little or no remorse based on any of the Abortionite criteria which define the various sects.

    ABORTOMANIA: A form of insanity characterized by great excitement and enthusiasm for abortion. Common among abortionmongers and other Abortionites, especially those of the Birthist sect, after the process of abortionthink has run its full course.

    ABORTOPHILIA: Love of abortion. A warm, even passionate emotional attachment to abortion, especially as practiced by the Birthist sect, when it is seen as a wonderful, life-enhancing and essential option in life. Characteristic of abortionmongers and other Birthist Abortionites.

    ABORTUARY: A facility in which prenatal human sacrifice is practiced. A temple of the Birthist sect of Abortionism wherein this sacrament takes place. See also ABORTIONITE TEMPLE.

    ACLU: The foremost missionary organization of Abortionism and related cults such as Evangelical Paganism. Variously known as Atheists, Communists and Liars Unscrupulous; Anti-Christian Litigation Union and Abortionite Confraternity of Litigious Ultra-Leftists. An organization devoted to destroying the moral foundations of American society by eradicating the influence of religion from public life.

    AMNIOCENTESIS: A medical procedure used to diagnose problems in prenatal children by analyzing material sampled from the amniotic fluid. Advocated as part of a search and destroy policy by eugenicists and other necrochoicers.

    ANIMALIST: An individual who believes that many if not all animal species have an equal claim to the recognition and protection of human society. Curiously, Animalists are frequently Birthist Abortionites who recognize few or no such claims for prenatal human children. This is due to their primary Abortionite affiliation with the Sentiencist sect. See also SENTIENCIST.

    ANTI-ABORTION: A negative label adopted by the necromedia to refer to pro-lifers, sometimes even applied in coverage of euthanasia to promote the desired negative image of pro-lifers as busybodies and meddlers in private matters. Contrast with the necromedia’s use of necrochoicers’ preferred euphemisms for themselves.

    ANTI-CHOICE: The preferred descriptor of Birthist Abortionites, abortionmongers, necrochoicers and the like for pro-lifers and others who oppose the administering of Abortionite sacraments. Its foolishness makes perfect sense to persons with fully developed Abortionite blind spots who are incapable of understanding that the only thing that makes any Abortionite sacrament unacceptable is the nature of the choice.

    ASSISTED SUICIDE: The choice to self-abort one’s life with help from one or more other persons. Popular with Functionalist Abortionites for putting the sick out of our misery when they cannot manage it alone. See also MEDICINE.

    Folks, this is just a small sample. For more on this, please visit:

    http://bellsouthpwp.net/m/a/maryb683/marybrown/glossary/atod.htm

    • Karolyn

      If this were not so sick, it would be funny! Are there really people who actually sit around making up words and definitions to back us their stance? Their time would be better used in educating the young and assisting those already born into poor circumstances.

      • Karolyn

        I meant back UP their stance. I don’t know what’s wrong with my fingers lately. At least when I’m at work, I can blame the keyboard, which sticks.

      • Jay

        BABYECTOMY: The surgical removal of a baby from a woman’s body, usually in many pieces in order to kill it. A suggested alternative to the euphemism “abortion”.

        BACK ALLEY: A piece of clever imagery concocted by abortionmongers to insinuate that any prenatal child-killing conducted outside the law is necessarily unsanitary and a much greater hazard to the health of the mother than child-killing conducted under the present state of anarchy. Widely used by necropimps.

        BARABBAS: A Biblical character who was guilty of serious crimes but was released in preference to a man known to be innocent when the responsible public official, claiming to be personally opposed, staged an act of democratic theatre, knowing that the mob’s choice would be to his own political advantage. Today, mobs still scream for the release of the culpable and the deaths of the innocent and public officials still wash their hands.

        BIG LIE: A technique for making lies become truth in the public mind by having the lies constantly repeated, preferably from a multiplicity of sources, giving an overwhelming impression of their truthfulness. Perfected by a Racist Abortionite in Germany, it is lavishly used today by Birthist Abortionites, abortionmongers, necrochoicers and necropimps.

        BEDROOM POLICE: A piece of clever imagery concocted by Birthist Abortionites, abortionmongers and necrochoicers to insinuate that restrictions on prenatal child-killing would mean government intrusion into the most private and personal aspects of people’s lives. It proved extremely effective in spite of being patently ludicrous.

        BIOETHICS: A relatively new branch of ethics that deals with the issues created by modern biological science, especially in the areas of reproduction and life support. Heavily infiltrated by Birthists and other Abortionites, it has virtually become the black art of rationalizing the unconscionable, sometimes even dispensing with all pretenses for formulating any rationale.

        BIO-IGNORANCE: A form of cultivated ignorance used by Birthist Abortionites in pathetic attempts to twist scientific facts to fit their grotesque agenda. Usually characterized by the use of observable, scientific phenomena such as birth and the functional capabilities of the prenatal child as philosophical criteria for the definition of biological life in place of the true biological criteria. Curiously, the bio-ignorant seem to enjoy flaunting it.

        BIOLOGY BASED DEFENSE: A non-violent means of dealing with a pregnancy that occurs under undesirable circumstances. The prenatal child is permitted to continue living throughout the limited period of the pregnancy and appropriate arrangements are made for its care after the natural terminating event of birth. See also CIVILIAN BASED DEFENSE.

        BIRTH: The process or event occurring approximately nine months after the beginning of each individual human life in which the child changes habitat or environment from intra-uterine to terrestrial, having acquired the necessary adaptations to survive in this next phase of the human life cycle.

        BIRTH CONTROL: A term commonly used to mean contraception, that is, the prevention of conception, although some methods act by producing early term abortions of the lives of prenatal children. Prenatal child-killing is actually the only form of birth control other than Caesarean delivery because that’s what it controls, not conception.

        BIRTHIST: A member of the Birthist sect of Abortionism who believes in aborting the rights of others on the basis of whether or not they have been born, often to the point of justifying their deliberate destruction. Of or pertaining to the Birthist sect.

        BLOB: A term popular among Birthist Abortionites and abortionmongers to describe prenatal children and thereby dehumanize them in the minds of potential Abortionite converts to facilitate their destruction.

        BRAIN DEAD: Possessed by beliefs that individual human lives begin at some other time than conception or that the question is a religious one or that such subjective, ill-defined and self-serving criteria as self-awareness, viability or appearance have anything to do with the question. Also used to describe the cessation of brain waves to imply that brain function has ceased and the individual can therefore legally be declared dead because the brain has no capacity for revival with current medical technology, i.e., brain wave loss is irreversible. It does not follow that the onset of embryonic brain waves some six weeks after conception marks the beginning of life because brain waves will be irreversibly present (about six weeks later) once conception has occurred. Conception marks the beginning of irreversible life for an individual. See also IRREVERSIBILITY.

        BRAIN SUCTION ABORTION: See DILATATION AND EXTRACTION.

        BRAINWASHING: A method of religious training among Abortionite sects, popular for its effectiveness, especially when the culture at large is supportive.

        BREATHING: A popular criterion among the bio-ignorant for the existence of a new individual human life, often held up as gospel truth (it actually has some Biblical basis) in spite of its biological insignificance.

        • Oh Dear

          Jay, you’re actually making me laugh out loud now . . .

          • Jay

            Oh Dear, your laughter is just one of the symptoms of your depravity! There are many others; delusion, denial, inconsistent logic, hate, lying, and as well, proud of looking and sounding like a fool!!!

          • Thamera

            Oh Dear and Karolyn must think that you just made up these definitions from thin air? Now that is what is hilarious.

          • Jay

            Thamera, can you believe that? She laughed at the definitions of those medical abortive procedures that anyone can research and confirm. What kind of a sick and twisted person is this???

      • Jay

        Karolyn, I’m surprised that you are not familiar with these terms, they are well know and consistently used by the abortionites, its medical practitioners, and its ardent supporters!

        • Karolyn

          I don’t think so. You act like there is a cult of people called “abortionites”. Laughable!

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Actually there are. They come under a variaty of terms, example: NOW, but all fall under the feminist / liberal / communist doctrine.
            If you think about it K you probably know several such groups and maybe you belong to some yourself.

          • Jay

            Karolyn, here’s another term the abortionites have recently included to the list, “Maternal Health”-aka: Abortion. Doesn’t that just make you feel all warm and cozy? It brings images to mind of “Spring time in Paris and a bouquet of flowers”, don’t you thinks so? What an evil and depraved bunch!!!

          • Jay

            Here Karolyn, here’s some more truth from an insider, take it and eat it, it’s good for you!MONDAY,

            JANUARY 17, 2011

            Abby Johnson, ex-abortionist, now pro-life:

            But through her experiences at Planned Parenthood, first as a volunteer and eventually as a clinic director, Johnson came to see the organization quite differently. As a business, Johnson said, Planned Parenthood was primarily focused on providing its most profitable service –abortion– as often as possible.

            Prior to the birth of her own first child, Johnson also had two abortions herself– something she had not discussed openly until the Jan. 10 webcast, although her former friend and Planned Parenthood colleague Laura Kaminczak had disclosed it to a reporter in January 2010 without her permission.

            As Johnson secretly bore this grief, she also became disillusioned with pressure to meet rising monthly abortion quotas at her clinic. Neither of these factors, however, drove her to reject Planned Parenthood’s core ideology about abortion “rights.”

            What finally did, was the experience of seeing an unborn child die before her eyes on an ultrasound monitor. Due to a personnel shortage, she was called in to assist in an ultrasound-guided abortion for the first time in September 2009. She was initially disconcerted to note how much the unborn child, after 13 weeks, looked like the image she had seen of her own living daughter while pregnant with her.

            The next few minutes changed Johnson’s life irrevocably, as she watched the baby –whom she had believed to be incapable of feeling anything– squirming and twisting to avoid the tube into which it would be vacuumed.

            “For the briefest moment,” she writes in her memoir, “the baby looked as if it were being wrung like a dishcloth, twirled and squeezed. And then it crumpled and began disappearing into the cannula before my eyes.”

            “The last thing I saw was the tiny, perfectly formed backbone sucked into the tube, and then it was gone.”

      • bob wire

        well if the poster could have dispensed a less bias and offered it in some academic fashion it might have been worth the read.

        as it stands, people that are scholared in such matters could take such a post and tell us what part of the country the were raised in, where they might be well traveled, and their level of education.

        The acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree and if eaten will not grow.

        • Jay

          lol!!!!!

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      So true, so true. have you ever noticed that pro-abortionists are often also anti-hunting and anti-death penalty. It’s OK to murder a helpless child but don’t you dare shoot Bambi or fry some serial killer. What a warped sense of perspective these people have.

      • Jay

        Easy to spot them, gunner689, they are always refereed to as, hyper hypocrites, delusional, and are always contradicting themselves! Their language consists of Abortionspeak: A dialect of Orwell’s Newspeak used by Abortionites to deny the realities of their sacraments (murder, slavery, etc.) and thereby enable doublethink. Used extensively in present day America by the Birthist sect to confuse the unconverted population and thereby confound effective action against their sacrament of child-killing. Very effective for necropimping.

        • Oh Dear

          Jay, you really are hilarious.

          • Jay

            Oh Dear, you are depraved, and what is tragic, is that you are blissfully unaware!

          • Jana

            Oh Dear,
            You have neither crdulity nor credibility!

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Oh Deer: you need to get off the wacky weed for awhile and quit watching Cheech and Chong movies. There is nothing funny about slaughtering helpless children.

      • http://deleted Claire

        I am in favor of the death penalty providing the person is proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt. I do not approve of abortion, only in case of health/death issues, incest or rape. I am all for hunting for food fot the table, I do not believe in sport killing.

        • http://deleted Claire

          “food for the table”

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          good. then stay out of my prarie dog pastuers.

    • pete

      Awesome !

      Jay, I just bookmarked that website ! Amazing how the baby killers have brainwashed all of us ! I’m going to study the definitions and get deprogrammed !

      • Jay

        peter, a very heartfelt, your welcome! Knowledge is POWER!!!!

        • Thamera

          Most definitely Jay. Notice that the only comments from Robert are “you lie” and references to Bristol Palin and acorns? LOL btw Robert, I will never stop using your own analogy’s against you as they are completely unfounded and ridiculous at best – although they are rather entertaining.

          • bob wire

            All this high minded talk might be worth spit if these same people showed some interest in post birth matters. But as it stands the GOP is very tight fisted when it comes helping disfranchised children.

            I sincerely wish we might see a little “follow-thu” on the part of our “conservative” friend when it comes to “Head Start” and school lunches for less unfortunate children. ~

            There again , they have no voice and need your help now more the ever.

            So where are you ?

            If you wish to accept one position why is so difficult to champion the other? Forgive me for saying so, but I find gross hypocrisy in this conflicting stance.

            While I’m not much for wanting to pay for someone else fornication, I’ll wish not to see a child neglected, starved or deprived. While our counterpart fails to take this matter head on and wishes to ignore or deffer the problem.

            What say ye to this matter of conflict?

          • Jay

            Bob wire, the only thing you and the evil twins, coal miner and robert smith bring to the table, are unsubstantiated allegations supported by seriously faulty logic! Had you but a sliver of awareness and good common sense, you would realize, that it is foolish to come to a gun fight unarmed! As a consequence, you are repeatedly and soundly beaten, time and again, yet, you persist, I suppose, for no other reason but to prove my point!!!

          • Jay

            Yes Thamera, it seems poor old Robert has run out ammo….

          • Thamera

            Bob w. while I appreciate your heartfelt sentiments, you know very well that no one wishes children to starve, along with anyone for that matter and as for health care after birth….they’ve got it and then some! Are you kidding me? My taxes pay for medicaid, just like yours.

          • Jana

            bob w,
            I will ask you the same question you asked.
            If you wish to accept one position why is so difficult to champion the other? Forgive me for saying so, but I find gross hypocrisy in this conflicting stance.

          • Jay

            The conflict is in you, bob wire!

          • bob wire

            “Cut Head Start!
            March 11, 2011 11:39 A.M.
            By Katrina Trinko

            Among the cuts being proposed by the House Republicans is one that would cut funding for Head Start, a program that offers preschool and early education services to low-income children. Under the GOP plan, Head Start’s funding would be $6.2 billion. That’s $1 billion less than its current budget and $2 billion less than President Obama requested in his 2011 budget.”

            So what’s this all about then?

            You defend this in light of what you have just offer up?

            I have no firm position but only to point out the hypocrisy that inherent in yours.

            Women are the host of life, and it’s not a 50/50 deal shared by men as much as you might wish it so. I believe a woman carry’s the burden in disproportionate fashion and deserving the control and final say of matters pertaining to her body and life. It’s a woman/family/church issue and not one of government to dictate.

          • Jay

            Bob wire says: Among the cuts being proposed by the House Republicans is one that would cut funding for Head Start, a program that offers preschool and early education services to low-income children.

            Bob wire, this is unnecessary, as I believe that so called, pre-school children, should be raised and educated at home and not by strangers. The pre-school program is nothing then a pretence by which the education system is then able to gain access to our children, in order to indoctrinate them with their godless propaganda, while yet, very young, and very impressionable. Besides, why their obsession with our children. Do they think we are incapable to raise our children? No doubt they would say, yes! Anyone with some common sense, would realize the importance of a child being raised and educated at home as being critical to the healthy development of that child. This I know, because I have a child! Children should not enter the school system, in my opinion, till at least the age of 7, and that only, on a part-time basis, and this, so as to avoid as much as possible, the negative and destructive influences that are so common in the public education system, particularly with respect to early development. Schools are nothing more then cesspools!!!
            So no deal on that one!

            Bob wire says: I believe a woman carry’s the burden in disproportionate fashion and deserving the control and final say of matters pertaining to her body and life.

            Bob wire: Are we to assume that all women would agree with you? Do you suppose, that most women who have supporting husbands would no doubt say that it is a 50/50 shared responsibility, as well as choice wether to keep or abort the child? My wife certainly seems to think so. “Hi Bob, I’m Jay’s wife, and I disagree with you, as far as I’m concerned, it’s a mutual decision and we decided when I was pregnant that we would keep our baby. Finally, since you are not a woman, then what gives you the right to pontificate that control only to the mother, while excluding the father?

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    attention:

    Donald Morgan:
    2CH 21:20, 22:1-2 Ahaziah was forty-two when he became king; he succeeded his father, who died at the age of forty. Thus, Ahaziah was two years older than his father. [Note: Some translations use "twenty-two" here in an attempt to rectify this discrepancy. The Hebrew is clear, however, that 2CH 22:2 is 42. The Hebrew words involved are Strong's H705 and H8147, "forty" and "two," respectively.]

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      Sceptic’s Annotated Bible:

      God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. Luckily for Moses, his Egyptian wife Zipporah “took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he [God] let him go.” This story shows the importance of penises to God, and his hatred of foreskins. Exodus 4:24

      • Vigilant

        Attention:

        Perhaps coal miner may wish to clue us in as to what his disbelief in Christianity has to do with the abortion question.

        • Jay

          Vigilant, coal miner is in a frenzy. He’s been exposed for what he is, a fraud and a liar! He has lost all credibility!

          • Jana

            Jay,
            He is taking his information from:
            The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible – (I didn’t think he was smart enough to come up with these on his own.) http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ – is a website dedicated to pointing out all of the supposed errors, contradictions, and discrepancies in the Bible. The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible divides the supposed errors into the following categories: injustice, absurdity, cruelty and violence, intolerance, contradictions, family values, women, good stuff, science and history, prophecy, sex, language, interpretation, and homosexuality. It is not the purpose of this article to refute every issue the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible raises (there are over 6,000).

          • Jay

            Jana, coal miner is playing with fire. He should really rethink his purpose in life. He told me he was an agnostic, if this were so, why then is he an enemy of God. Delusional? How can you be against someone you don’t believe exists?

          • Jana

            Jay,
            Exactly.

          • Oh Dear

            Jay, you’re stretching my credulity in your credibility.

          • Jay

            Oh Dear, your depravity disqualifies you from properly understanding both!!!

          • Jana

            oh dear Doesn’t have any creulity nor credibility.

          • Jana

            I meant credulity. Obviously oh dear doesn’t even know the meaning of either one of these words.

    • pete

      Coal Miner

      Oh No ! You found a mistake in the BIBLE ! I now see the feeble mindedness of my beliefs !!!! My whole worldview has just fallen apart like a house of cards ! Alas ! A Religionist no more I shall be !

      Thank you Mr. Wordly Wiseman !

      • Jana

        pete he took it from the The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible -

        http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ he is not smart enough to come up with these things on his own.

        • Jay

          Jana and pete, I know you know this, but there is no such thing as errors or contradictions in the Bible. What coal miner and his web site do, is what I would call, “slight of hand”.

          They first develop an opinion or assumption, God is an arbitrary cruel and sadistic monster, who indiscriminately kills on a whim(assumption), then they look for specific scripture the may be describing a battle scene, or a war, or a justified judgment, with related terms such as; decimate, dash babies against rocks, circumcision, and the likes, they then copy and paste that small portion of scripture, making sure to exclude the whole chapter which would provide context, and use it to legitimate their assumption or lie.

          Another words, they get the cart before the horse, so to speak.

          To avoid falling into their trap, whenever they offer a small piece of scripture to support their outlandish lie, simply access the source or position of it in the Bible and read the whole chapter that is related to the piece they provided. You will then be reading it in context, something they hope you will avoid!

          They are not as clever as they think. This sort of practice or technique is commonly used by religious cults. It is only effective on those who are not well schooled in theology or are not aware of their black magic trick!

          As I said, there are no errors or contradictions in the Bible, its perfect, and because its perfect, the natural man could not have written it without the guidance and inspiration of God’s Holy Spirit!

          There are many who are not aware of a phenomena hidden in the Scriptures. Research, “The Hebrew Codes”, or, Equidistant Letter Sequences. It will amaze you!!!
          http://mypage.direct.ca/g/gcramer/code.html

          This is something these fools wont bring to your attention.

          • Jana

            Jay,
            I whole heartedly agree with you. I know the Bible doesn’t have errors. I have been a student of the Word of God for 12 years now. A Christian for much longer, but an actual student where I study about an hour a day, for just the last 12 years. I know I don’t know it all, or even a portion, but I love it.
            I agree, to go back into the scriptures and find out what the subject is and many times the subject is actually in a couple of verses and sometimes even chapters back.
            I use a Concordance too so I can go back to the Hebrew or Greek or Armaic.
            I will go to that site that you gave. Thanks. It has been a privelege to have a good partner to go back and forth with.

            These people Coal miner whose heart is as black as coal so he has an appropriate name, and Robert, are just two little communists running around trying to discredit God. That just isn’t possible. They are liars and they serve the father of all liars.
            The funny part is it is obvious to all who read their responses to see WHO and WHAT they are, but they have been so deceived in thier little black hearts, that they are blinded to any truth. They remind me of Kenites. Actually so does oh dear who is right in there with them.
            They aren’t fighting or dealing with us, they are dealing with their own demons. They can’t win because Truth isn’t in them.
            Thanks

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        pete and Jana,

        The Bible is very inaccurate The creation story is 100% nonsense. Nobody has ever found any traces of the exodus in the Sinai. Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Aaron and Joshua never existed. Where are the great buildings, and gold of Solomon? Why didn’t the writers of Exodus know the Pharaohs name? The Bible never mentions the battles between the Egyptians and Assyrians. Most of the major events of that era go unrecorded in the Bible. The story about Noah and the flood is impossible. I could go on all day about what is wrong in the Bible but I don’t have the time. The Bible is a book of lies and myths.

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            pete,

            Moses’ Sun Signs: The Unspoken Bible
            This report demonstrates that the biography of Moses can be explained as a solar myth that follows the path of the sun around the zodiac. …
            http://www.usbible.com/Astrology/moses_sun_signs.htm – Cached

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          I used to think that the name coal miner refered to your job. I now know that it refers to your black soul and your final destination.

          • Jay

            And a black soul it is gunner689, I get the heebee jeebees when I exchange posts with coal miner. I sense a very disturbed spirit!

        • Jana

          coal, You are such a simple minded black soul. It is such an easy answer, but you don’t want any answers, you just want to accuse.
          *******************
          You ask: Why didn’t the writers of Exodus know the Pharaohs name? The Bible never mentions the battles between the Egyptians and Assyrians. Most of the major events of that era go unrecorded in the Bible
          ********************

          The O.T. is about the blood line that Christ would come from. This is why Eve is called the mother of all living. Not because every race came from her and Adam, but because the bloodline of Christ came from her womb to womb. The O.T. is much deeper than the Egyptians and Assyrians.

          • Jay

            Excellent answer Jana. That is often overlooked, glad you pointed that out.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Jana,
            Bull sh**t,

            The O.T. is about the blood line that Christ would come from. This is why Eve is called the mother of all living. Not because every race came from her and Adam, but because the bloodline of Christ came from her womb to womb. The O.T. is much deeper than the Egyptians and Assyrians.

            Tell that to the Jews.You may get an answer you won’t like.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        pete,
        answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid…

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    3)http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_surgoens_crush_baby_skulls_in_abortion

    • Jay

      DILATATION AND CURETTAGE (D & C): A technique for early term prenatal child-killing which involves dilating the cervix and inserting an instrument to scrape the uterine wall to destroy and remove the prenatal child and its supporting organs.

      DILATATION AND EVACUATION (D & E): A technique for late term prenatal child-killing which involves dilating the cervix and inserting instruments to pull apart and remove the prenatal child and its supporting organs.

      DILATATION AND EXTRACTION (D & X): A technique for late term prenatal child-killing which involves pulling all but the child’s head through the cervix so that the child is not yet technically born, puncturing the base of the skull with a scissors, evacuating the brain with a catheter so that the skull can be collapsed, and removing the dead baby from the mother’s body. This causes minimal damage to the child’s body to facilitate harvesting of its organs.

      DIPLOID: Having the full number of chromosomes in the cell, the chromosomes existing in pairs. See also GAMETE.

      DISAPPEARED: A term from human rights activism used to refer to persons who suddenly and completely drop out of sight forever in societies given to human rights abuses. The United States currently has some 35,000,000 children who are disappeared and counting.

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
    • Jay

      Complications you can have with your abortion. -Dr. Warren Hern, world renowned abortionist


      Bladder Injury:
      

If your uterus is perforated, your urinary bladder can be perforated, too. This can also cause peritonitis (an inflamed, infected lining of the abdomen) with all of its pain, dangers and necessary reparative surgery.

      Bowel Injury:
      

If your uterus is perforated, your intestines can be perforated, too. This will cause nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, fever, blood in stool, peritonitis (an inflamed, infected lining of the abdomen) and death if not treated quickly enough. A portion of the intestine may have to be taken out, and a temporary or permanent colostomy may be put in your abdomen.

      Breast Cancer:
      Women who have aborted have significantly higher rates of breast cancer later in life. Breast cancer has risen by 50% in America since abortion became legal in 1973.

      Ectopic (Tubal) Pregnancy:
      An ectopic pregnancy is any pregnancy that occurs outside the uterus. After an abortion, you are 8 to 20 times more likely to have an ectopic pregnancy. If not discovered soon enough, an ectopic pregnancy ruptures, and you can bleed to death if you do not have emergency surgery. Statistics show a 30% increased risk of ectopic pregnancy after one abortion and a 160% increased risk of ectopic pregnancy after two or more abortions. There has been a threefold increase in ectopic pregnancies in the U.S. since abortion was legalized. In 1970, the incidence was 4.8 per 1,000 live births. By 1980 it was 14.5 per 1,000 births.

      Effects on Future Pregnancies
      If you have an abortion:
      (1) You will be more likely to bleed in the first three months of future pregnancies.
      (2) You will be less likely to have a normal delivery in future pregnancies.
      (3) You will need more manual removal of placenta more often and there will be more complications with expelling the baby and its placenta.
      (4) Your next baby will be twice as likely to die in the first few months of life.
      (5) Your next baby will be three to four times as likely to die in the last months of his first year of life.
      (6) Your next baby may have a low birth weight.
      (7) Your next baby is more likely to be born prematurely with all the dangerous and costly problems that entails.

      Failed Abortion:
      

Failure to successfully abort the unborn younger than 6 weeks is relatively common. Sometimes, an abortionist fails to evacuate the placenta from the uterus. This means the pregnancy continues even though mother has endured the dangers and cost of an abortion.

      Hemorrhage:
      One to fourteen percent of women require a blood transfusion due to bleeding from an abortion.

      Hepatitis:
      This can occur if you have to have a blood transfusion after an abortion.

      Infection:
      Mild fever and sometimes death occurs when there is an infection from an abortion. This happens in anywhere from 1 in 4 women to 1 in 50 women.

      Laceration of the Cervix:
      About 1 out of 20 women suffer this during an abortion. This causes you to have nearly a 50/50 chance of miscarrying in your next pregnancy if it is not treated properly during that pregnancy. A high incidence of cervical damage from the abortion procedure has raised the incidence of miscarriage 30-40% in women who have had abortions.

      More Miscarriages Later:
      Women who have had two or more abortions have twice as many first trimester miscarriages in later pregnancies. There is a ten-fold increase in the number of second trimester miscarriages in pregnancies that follow a vaginal abortion.

      Perforation of the Uterus:
      Women suffer a perforated uterus in between 1 out of 40 and 1 out of 400 abortions. This almost always causes peritonitis (an inflamed, infected lining of the abdomen), similar to having a ruptured appendix.

      Placenta Previa:
      Placenta previa occurs 6 to 15 times more often after a woman has had an abortion. In this condition your baby’s placenta lies over the exit from the uterus so that the placenta has to be delivered before the baby can get out. This causes the mother to bleed severely while the baby almost always dies, unless your obstetrician recognizes this condition and removes the baby by Caesarean section at just the right time in the pregnancy.

      Post-Abortion Syndrome:
      Frequently after an abortion, women suffer a range of mental and psychological problems. These may include recurrent dreams of the abortion experience, avoidance of emotional attachment, relationship problems, sleep disturbances, guilt about surviving, memory impairment, hostile outbursts, suicidal thoughts or actions, depression, and substance abuse. These problems may occur days to years later.

      Retained Products of Conception:
      If your doctor leaves pieces of the baby, placenta, umbilical cord, or amniotic sac in your body, you may develop pain, bleeding, or a low grade fever. Besides antibiotics and possible hospitalization, you may require additional surgery to remove these remaining pieces.

      RH Incompatibility:
      Your doctor should be sure of your baby’s Rh blood type if you are Rh-negative, so that he can protect you and your next baby against future Rh incompatibilities. These Rh incompatibilities can:
      . require that future babies will need transfusions soon after birth,
      . cause future babies to be born dead because of the incompatibilities,
      . cause future babies to die soon after birth because of the Rh incompatibility.

If your doctor doesn’t check the blood type of the baby you are going to abort, even in very early suction abortions done before eight weeks, fetal-maternal hemorrhage can occur, thereby sensitizing you if you are Rh-negative.

      Severe, Rapid Bleeding:
      You may develop DIC (disseminated intravascular coagulopathy) from your abortion. This means your blood does not clot and you will bleed uncontrollably. DIC is extremely life threatening and difficult to treat. It occurs in 2 out of 1,000 second trimester abortions.

      Sterility:
      After an abortion you may become sterile. This happens in 1 out of 20 to 1 out of 50 women. The risk of secondary infertility among women with at least one abortion is 3 to 4 times greater than that among women who have not aborted.

      Unrecognized Ectopic Pregnancy:
      Your doctor may try to abort the baby but be unsuccessful because it is developing in your fallopian tube. Unfortunately this tubal pregnancy ruptures later and emergency surgery must be done to save your life. All women in their first trimester should have an ultrasound to make sure they do not have an ectopic pregnancy.

      Young Women:
      Complication rates of abortion increase with younger, teen-age women. However, younger women who carry their babies to term have better births than older women if they get proper care. There is evidence that in 15 to 17 year old women, pregnancy may even be physically healthier than in women of older ages.

      “In medical practice, there are few surgical procedures given so little attention and so underrated in its potential hazards as abortion. It is a commonly held view that complications are inevitable.”
      - Dr. Warren Hern, world renowned abortionist


      • iamone3

        Thank you for all the information you have posted here. This is a great service for all interested persons.

        • Jay

          iamone3, your welcome. For so long we have heard only terms with respect this issue; abortion, choice, medical procedure, individual rights as so on. But we never asked what is really being said and for what reasons. for example, the medical procedure, abortion. What is it, what does it involve? Can you imagine, if a graphic video were to be presented to a high school generation, laying bare and in graphic detail, the actual medical procedures that are used in an abortion? Do you suppose that it would have an impact on the teens, not only with respect to the question of ethics for such procedures, but as well, to their personal behaviour?

          • Jana

            Jay,
            I agree. That is valuable information. I had no idea there were so many terms. They use these terms to make it all sound so innocent. To dupe and persuade these girls who are scared and confused into having an abortion. These are TRICKS of the trade. Thanks for outing them.

      • GregS

        Excellent post, Jay! It clearly supports the fact that the woman is the second victim of every abortion.

        If the woman hasn’t fallen victim to the medical complications, which you have just so eloquently described, she is constantly bombarded by the pro-abortion news media with the false notion that abortion is somehow going to solve her problems. Furthermore, many women are under extreme pressure from friends, parents, or lovers to have abortions. Although, many pro-aborts try to gloss over this, it’s been well documented by previous surveys done by the Allan Guttmacher Institute.

        • Jay

          GregS, its true, and often not mentioned, the pressure from family, lovers and friends that push and pressure a woman to have an abortion. It seems to come from all sides. I remember when I first found out my wife was pregnant, feelings of fear of the unknown, feelings of inadequacy, a disconnection from myself, the overwhelming feeling of responsibility washed over me like flood. And I can understand how a couple, especially the mother to be, can be easily manipulated and taken advantage of by some who wish that she not deal with such a lifelong responsibility, because obviously they can’t, or won’t, for whatever reason, usually selfish.

          And I remember like it was yesterday our trip the doctor’s office, the doctor refused to acknowledge me and only asked my wife the question, “So, are you keeping it”? He refereed to the life inside wife’s womb as “it”. Needless to say, I was shocked, and answered:”Yes, we have decided that we will keep our baby”, he still refused to acknowledge me, and still, refused to look at me, until my wife concurred with me, with a matter of course as if he even had to ask the question, and I could note the shock in her face at the doctor’s idiotic question. That day, all the respect I had for that doctor was gone.

          And so, my Son is ten, and he’s the joy in our lives, when its challenging, and when its sublime. But most importantly, he has changed my identity for ever. I’m a Father.

          • Jana

            Jay,
            God bless you. I would just bet (if I ever did) that you are a good daddy too.

          • GregS

            Jay, ditto to what Jana has just said.

        • Jay

          Thank you, Jana and GregS, to the complement of being a good daddy, well.. let’s just say, “work in progress”. But I should share an observation. When my Son was yet, very young, it occurred to me that it may actually be the children that teach us to be parents, and that, through the relational process. They intimate and make known their needs, we do our best to meet those needs, and the needs run the gamut and are not restricted to merely the physical. If such is done while always keeping in mind that they bear the image of their Creator, then your works will in no doubt, reflect to them their true Father! This is key to raising children. Studies show, that most atheists have had a ruptured relationship with their fathers. Interesting!

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Oh Deer must be sucking on her bong. I don’t hear her laughing anymore.

  • pete

    Jay,

    I’m not sure what planet you are from, but I think it’s “Vulcan” ! I sure learned much from your posts. Thanks !

    • Jay

      Your welcome pete, may you live long and prosper!!!

  • Thamera

    Yes, great information and well founded. One of the first steps to desensitize the public en mass was to refer to a baby in utero as a fetus and not disclose all of the terms and procedures you have just listed. All of which have absolutely nothing to do with the bible. (FYI coal miner, Robert S. Oh Dear and etc.)

    • Jay

      Your welcome, Thamera! There is a post I posted above, about half way up. A must read, its an ex-abortionist’s testimony. A real eye opener.

      • Thamera

        I read the post about the ex-abortionist’s testimony. No wonder Karolyn and Oh Dear and Robert have left this thread, anyone with a conscience could not read that and still say that abortion is “okay”. It was difficult to finish the descriptive narrative of the killing of a child.

        • Jay

          Thamera, they didn’t respond because they have nothing to respond with. They avoid the truth like the plague! Their silence speaks volume!!!

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          .You have to pity those poor lost souls. I pray they see the Light before it’s too late for them

  • Bill

    Jay,

    Thanks for your diligence and commitment!

  • Bill

    Probe reveals abortion clinics bloody, horrific
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1318422

    • Jay

      Hey Bill, checked out the site, very disturbing but not surprising when it comes to these butchers! I wonder if anyone has ever done physiological studies on abortionists to determine if the abortionists might be at risk of suffering detrimental physiological damage as a result of performing thousands of abortion? Legitimate question, right? It must have some sort of impact! Of course this would have to preclude that the doctor wasn’t already mentally disturbed. Why do you suppose this issue has never been raised? Something to consider! Can you imagine the flack from the left wing cuckarrachias that this proposal would cause?

  • Mikeylikesit

    Libertarians believe government should stay out of the choices my family and our relationship with God make. Government needs to stay out of my bedroom and my wife and daughters wombs.

    • Jay

      LIBERTARIANISM: A political philosophy that proclaims love of freedom and eschews force of any kind, yet claims significant numbers of Birthist Abortionites as adherents. Its basic flaw is that it is not based on love of neighbor but apathy toward neighbor and love only of self.

    • Jay

      Its not Government that wishes to invade your wife’s or your daughters womb’s, but rather the abortionists!

    • GregS

      Mikeylikesit says:

      “Government needs to stay out of my bedroom…”

      Abortions aren’t performed in the bedroom!

  • Bill

    “Abortion Is Not Health Care,” Especially Not for the Baby
    http://exposingliberallies.blogspot.com/2011/03/abortion-is-not-health-care-especially.html

    • Jay

      Bill, nothing short of outrageous! Law’s are irrelevant to these bloodthirsty butchers as they find ways to get around law’s. For example, it is illegal to text while driving, but you can text while someone else drives. If planned parenthood cannot perform abortions under their flag while it the same time denied funding, simply create new company-college campuses- and funnel original denied funding through the new source. Its not funding the organization that we should be aiming for, but rather, we need to revive and enforce, the original law regarding abortion, incarceration or death penalty of all abortionists.

      • Bill

        Jay,

        My friend, how can you expect society to do the right thing? Incarceration, is to humane a treatment for the commission of crimes that this industry commits. I believe, that after they have been informed of the true nature of their crimes, (the destruction of the Image of God,and murder of an innocent life),that if they continue with impunity- they should be put to death also!

        But don’t expect humanity to do what needs to be done, it can’t even condone capital punishment, where the guilty need the death sentence, as opposed to the innocent unborn,- who are mercilessly slaughtered because they are deemed to be a social inconvenience at the time or whatever excuse is the flavor of the month .

  • Bill

    Jay,

    Touche’ Sir!

  • Bill

    ‘Walk 4 Life’ slated for this weekend
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1320546

    • Jay

      I watched the answers’s video, excellent, very well done!

  • Bill

    Library’s judgment violates free speech
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1320188

    • Jay

      Bill, thank you for the link, much valuable information!

  • Bill

    Charges against assaulted pro-lifer dropped
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1320664

  • Bill
  • Bill

    Alveda King: Abortion exterminating black leaders
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1321902

  • Bill

    Pro-lifer: Boxer parroting Planned Parenthood
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1321932

  • Bill

    Campbell Soup cuts ties, others elusive
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1323454

  • Bill

    AZ nips ‘telemed’ abortions in the bud
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1323548

  • Bill

    Boehner — pro-lifers’ staunch ally
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1324086

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