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Sour Grapes Or Grapes Of Wrath?

November 14, 2012 by  

Sour Grapes Or Grapes Of Wrath?
PHOTOS.COM

The day after the re-election of President Barack Obama, the stock market tanked with the Dow Jones industrial average falling more than 300 points in the first two hours of trading and closing the day below 13,000 for the first time since Aug. 2. Oil prices also fell, losing almost $4 per barrel to less than $85 per barrel. Prices of every asset other than gold (which rose by $5 per ounce) also declined when the markets woke up to Obama’s second term. It is called deflation, and it is only going to get worse.

The markets are pure. They don’t have prejudices or preferences other than to make money in bull markets and retain money in bear markets. The day after the election, the markets voted — or, more to the point, stampeded — in a massive sale that saw every single stock in the Dow fall sharply in the first couple of hours of trading.

Democrats were quick to point out how the Dow almost doubled during Obama’s first term. The reason for that was an unprecedented amount of money injected into the capital markets and the policies of the Federal Reserve, which has effectively lowered interest rates to less than zero (yield on short-term Treasury bills pays less than the rate of inflation).

I expect more funds moving into Treasury bills despite their paltry rates of return. Investors, especially large mutual funds and even sovereign nations, are more worried about a return of their capital than the return on their capital.

For four years and with the Federal government now holding $16 trillion in debts, Obama has been playing for time with spending sprees that the Roman Emperor Nero could not have imagined.

In comparison to Obama, this information on Nero is interesting:

On July 18, 64 A.D. disaster struck, Rome was ravaged by a great fire that burned over three fourths of the city. Amid this disaster however Nero saw the opportunity to rebuild Rome greater than it had been before. His first task was the construction of a huge elegant palace. Some people believed that Nero started the fire so that he would have a place for his palace to be built. Nero saw himself losing favor with the public so he decided to blame the fire on the Christians.

Substitute Republicans for Christians and Obama’s insistence on blaming them for all of America’s ills, and you can see the parallel.

Yet while Nero’s taxes rebuilt Rome (until it was overrun by barbarians), the upcoming taxes from Obama — set to kick in Jan. 1 — will dismantle today’s modern empire, the United States.

There is growing pessimism over the prospects of Congress finding any common ground in order to stop a string of tax hikes and spending cuts from taking effect at the end of the year. Investors worry the so-called fiscal cliff scenario would send the economy back into a deep recession.

I don’t think that is going to happen. I believe the pyramid of money created during Obama’s first term plus the onslaught of taxes (his redistribution of wealth) and finally his insistence on green energy that is neither affordable nor practical are going to precipitate another depression.

Renowned 20th Century economist John Kenneth Galbraith warned that economic meltdowns inevitably reoccur after the collective living memory of the society has forgotten the errors of greed and avarice that lead to every panic and crash. It has been 80 years since the last financial implosion. The people who are directing the wealth of the Nation see the Great Depression just as they see the Roman Empire — something that had to be studied in order to pass history.

Even worse is the likelihood that Obama will victimize the United States because of his own personal ambitions and successes that have translated into giving him the Presidency for another four years. The difference between being a bad President, like Jimmy Carter, and a disastrous President will come down to those additional 48 months.

In the bestseller Suicide of a Superpower: Will America Survive to 2025?, Patrick J. Buchanan writes:

Obama is caught is a dilemma from which there appears no escape. Democrats are the Party of Government. They feed it and it feeds them. The larger government becomes, the more agencies established, the more bureaucrats hired, the more citizens receiving benefits or checks, the more deeply entrench the Party of Government.

For 80 years, this has been the Democratic formula for success. “Tax and tax, spend and spend, elect and elect,” was the pithy depiction of that policy attributed to FDR aide Harry Hopkins. And herein lies Obama’s dilemma. How does the leader of the Party of Government preside over an era of austerity, in which federal employees and federal benefits are radically reduced, to avert a default on the national debt?

The answer is Obama cannot do this. More to the point, he won’t even try. We have plenty of evidence of that from his first term which was terrible for the middle class that the President says he so strongly supports. The real winner is the government itself.

USA Today reported:

Federal employees making salaries of $100,000 or more jumped from 14% to 19% of civil servants during the recession’s first 18 months — and that’s before overtime pay and bonuses are counted.

Federal workers are enjoying an extraordinary boom time — in pay and hiring — during a recession that has cost 7.3 million jobs in the private sector.

The United States used to be the economic dynamo that powered the world. Over the past decade, America could not even power itself. More and more, we rely on borrowing ever greater sums from nations like China and Germany. Yet the strength for those two economic powers is also in decline. Last week, Bloomberg reported that the European Commission is predicting the eurozone economy will virtually grind to a halt next year as the debt crisis ravages southern Europe and gnaws at the economic performance of export-driven Germany.

The commission estimates that “the 17-nation euro economy will expand 0.1 percent in 2013, down from a May forecast of 1 percent. It cut the estimate for Germany, Europe’s largest economy, to 0.8 percent from 1.7 percent.” Meanwhile, China, whose economy has grown at double-digit rates for the past 25 years, has seen economic growth slow to just more than 7 percent.

This plus non-existent job growth in the United States, the onset of higher taxes, soaring debts and a severely devalued dollar tell me that the Obama Depression is fait accompli.

In high school, I had to read The Grapes of Wrath, a novel by John Steinbeck. I found it depressing, but I was affected more when I reread it a decade ago. Steinbeck’s plot could play out today. With the re-election of Obama, I believe it will play out over the next few years.

Action to take: Sell all stocks and bonds, including resource stocks such as petroleum and coal. (I wouldn’t be surprised to see oil below $60 per barrel in the next 18 months and the Dow at less than 8,000.) Convert small amounts of money into cold, hard cash stored in a safe place. I wouldn’t trust large amounts of money to banks, so consider putting anything over $10,000 into three- or six-month Treasury bills. You won’t make money, but you won’t lose your principal. Keep some physical gold on hand if you can afford it. I think bullion might retreat over the short-term, but some gold tucked away is always an insurance policy. If things get extremely bad, only gold prices will rise. As for silver and platinum, I would be an outright seller of both.

Yours in good times and bad,

–John Myers
Editor, Myers’ Energy & Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Harold Olsen

    It sees as though every time a Democrat wins a presidential election, the Stock Market drops. But, every time a Republican wins, it goes up and, sometimes, even skyrockets. That should tell people something.

    • http://uncleteddysreeducationcamp.com teddy maher

      Harold … To Quote John Wayne….” Life is tough,but it is even tougher when you are stupid”….We have witnessed the empowered poor and lazy going to the poles and voting our paychecks ….Productive people will be productive in what ever economic climate they exist…. IMHO an underground economy will be established as times get tougher…

      • Sailor

        To me, they are all one in the same!

      • FreedomFighter

        Action to take: Sell all stocks and bonds,…

        Excellent advice, would add the buying of long term storage food, guns, ammo, water purification and storage. I would point out the world wide crop failures, sharp spike in food prices and lessening of availability of foodstuffs, but as readers here you allready know it.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • adele1688

        I thought no racist or undergrading comments allowed!

      • old hillbilly

        Save cash, buy T-bills, & protect your principle???

        Better listen to the freedom fighter!!!

        Better idea… read about post WWI Germany & imagine big wheel barrows full of money for a moldy loaf of bread. Check out the CPI index published by our insanely corrupted government – if you invested $1 in a 1965 T-bill & cashed in 2011, the 2011 dollar would buy 14 cents of 2011 goods. Couldn’t even buy a bottle of water…right??? Think Geitner & Bernanke printing dumpsters full of green banks… as fast as they can move them… and we’re not in mortal danger! Add obumper to the equation, spending trillions more than we can produce & it’s right out of hell… smoke & brimstone included

        If you can’t understand all this… buy a gun & ammo anyway… when “it” begins you won’r beprepared or tough enough to survive

      • moonbeam

        “…. IMHO an underground economy will be established as times get tougher…” So, I’m not the only one who sees this. I believe people will have no choice but to go underground with their money. Infrastructure be damned. It will be about survival.

    • Jeff

      If you look at the market’s performance over the past 100, 50, or 20 years, you could not honestly say such a thing. Clinton was bad for the market? Obama has been bad for the market? I suppose W was good? Under Obama, the market has gone from 6,500 to roughly 13,000. Yes, right now it’s a bit below 13,000 but markets go up and down. They tend to go up a heck of a lot more under Democratic Administrations than under Republican ones.

      • Sailor
      • DaveH

        Only one problem, Jeff — The market hit it’s low because of Obama. So no legitimate analysis could begin at that low. But then, why should that surprise me coming from a Liberal Progessive who is grasping for straws?
        The rest of the “gains” are illusory, given that the Federal Reserve has increased the Money Supply by 30% since Obama took office, and that there have been $2 Trillion in “stimulus” payments under Obama. Gee, I wonder who gets that stimulus money first?

        • Jeff

          My point exactly. The drops are due to Obama; the gains are illusory. Heads I win, tails you lose.

          Were you the one who agreed with Limbaugh that the market’s huge drop in late 2008 was Obama’s fault? That analysis is worthy of W himself (“The problem with the French is they have no word for ‘entrepreneur.’”). Even Obama’s critics will admit that nothing he did could have had any effect before the market hit its low a couple of months into his Administration. 6,500 to 13,000 is illusory? Tell that to someone with a 401K.

      • nickkin

        Hey…shouldn’t we blame BUSH for this ? Why should obozo take all the credit?

      • DaveH

        Jeff,
        The people with the 401Ks are gaining in Nominal dollars only. In Real dollars they are losing or treading water at best (in general).
        I wouldn’t expect you to understand that, Jeff. But maybe you could raise your level of awareness by reading this book:
        http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

      • Buster the Anatolian

        “Under Obama, the market has gone from 6,500 to roughly 13,000. ”

        While that is true what was the market before the drop after obamas election. 12,900 or so I believe. So, the market basicly recovered to what it was it did not make a huge gain. And, as DaveH pointed out at least part of the recovery was market inflation due to the increase in money supply.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        Exactly, and anyone who bases their opinion on one or two days market has no idea how the market works.

        When you research stocks, in deciding if you want to invest in them, you look at how that stock has performed over a length of time (usually 3-24 months). Then you do an online search for any news regarding the company. Then you make the decision if you want to invest, knowing that the stock market is not a sure thing, and that you should only invest money that will not hurt you to lose.

      • eddie47d

        Tigeer; Have heard the same things for many years and from financial advisers.

    • WSK

      Harold, I am at least as Conervative as you are, but you are factually inaccurate. As much as we want to believe it the market actually has done a bit better when the Dems are in the White House. Years can pass before we can feel the effects of policy. (Think of Obamacare, wait ’til that starts kicking in.). Then the Reps come in just in time for the mess to kick in and then have to spend years cleaning it up. Dems blame the Reps for that and the cycle begins anew.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Except for one thing, you are not a Conservative. Your spiel gave you away.

    • walter agard

      You are impossible,just like the others like yourself. You want things to happen overnight.

  • B rian

    From an independents point of view……

    I heard today that 50 percent of people polled think fiscal failure is going to happen. 20 percent want it to happen. Who wins if it does happen?! And who wins if it doesn’t happen?!
    Republicans want smaller government, reductions in entitlements, reductions in overall spending…… And they control the congress where this decision is made!
    Democrats want larger government, continued entitlements, and more money out of top earners to cover these costs…… And have no say in congress!
    If…… Fiscal failure happens….. We go back to democrat Clinton’s tax policies! And Obama can’t point fingers at his own parties policies! Obama gets automatic spending reduction, and everybody including the 47% pays much higher taxes! His deficit comes down….. And he claims lame duck! But in the end it’s still democrat tax policy that 97% of people will be paying higher taxes on! So he gets to claim he “tried to help the middle class”. But the republicans stood in his way and now we are all paying democratic policy taxes! Don’t see that working out for him! Finger pointing and blame is over!
    On the other hand…… Automatic spending cuts will shrink the government, shrink national defense, interupt entitlements, and lower national deficit. Obama….. In the debate….. Already proved his point of smaller military…. Point taken! So republican congress has no reason to barter an agreement with Obama, other than to save the economy! But by allowing fiscal failure, all problems solved from republicans point of view, except smaller military, and Obama already smoothed that over for them.

    50% of people believe fiscal failure is gonna happen….. Is this the same 49.5 percent that just lost the election, and pay the majority of the taxes, and control congress?! If it is…… And your in the 47% plus 4% that helped win the election for Obama…… Prepare to get out your wallets….. Cause I think fiscal failure is eminent! And your tax rates just went up to democrat Clinton tax policy levels! 97% of Americans are going to be paying more! So much for Obama looking out for the middle class! Obama care is going to hit these people again that can’t afford health insurance and have to pay the fine for each member of their household. Household income of $50000 and family of 3….. Penalty of $3000! Add this to $2000 tax rate increase! And you just lost $5000 more than you usually pay per year in taxes!

    I’m not lying….. Just looked it up! Add this 5000 to the 6800 that you were gonna pay while on bush era taxes…. And you out almost 12,000 dollars in federal taxes! Add to this….. state tax, local tax, property tax, school tax, social security tax, sales tax over the year…..

    Obama ran up the deficit, Increased the scope and cost of government, increased entitlements, promised the world…… And has no control of the fiscal cliff! He couldn’t produce a balanced budget at all as president in 4 years! You just gave him 4 more!

    You wanted hope and change……. Hope this doesn’t lead to a economic depression rivaling the last….. And change is all your gonna have left after paying all your taxes, that are democrat tax policies! Wonder how your gonna feel about immigration if unemployment reaches 30% and illegals are willing to work cheaper than you!

    • Sailor

      B rian,

      They wanted to hope and change; now they are going to get it beautifully just like Greece got it…I am just waiting for the French to lounch their next uprising. At those tax rates, the middle and lower class will be getting crunched…..I guess we do not learn from the history we make…

      Chavez, in Venezuela, same thing; stolen election as usual. And the people who used to make a difference there are all now crammed up in Miami and who knows where else. This I know for I lived in that [expletive deleted] hole back in the days when there was a pseudo-democracy; but when you are a small child living in an oil field in the Gulf of Maracaibo; your knowledge becomes apparent once you age as I have.

      Then there is the story of that “New World Order” with the salutation of those hands look as horns. The first thing that comes to mind is the illuminati and the rest of the bone heads that want this order to be. And it is not going to stop for it is written.

      We shall see how it develops further….

    • johnC

      Hope and change how much do you want back from your dollar when it is all said and done how about 2 cents …wonder what happens to bloated government when this house of cards collapses

    • http://uncleteddysreeducationcamp.com teddy maher

      Brian …. An economic collapse will hurt everybody,however,the welfare state will be DOA,and that will be one of the several good things that would come from a default….The banking system will have to reorganize all debt and in some cases forgive it… as provided through a myriad of individual state bankruptcy statutes…The poor will be means tested and the Lazy will be off our back…Fraud detection and prevention will be an up and coming huge industry…Law enforcement will be the responsibility of communities and the abusive pensions of public employees will be gone…. This is a senario that washington is not ready for…

      • sandman4X4

        I have always felt the same Teddy, and I believe the biggest loosers will be the banks, because if what is said does come to pass, how will folks be able to pay their mortgages? all the banks and companies that are holding papers of debit will be nulanviod, cause if there is no $$$ how will their debit be satisfied? no one will be able to pay for anything, and what meager monies they do have will go first for food, then comes shelter, and how are they to pay the mortgage? the banks loose, because are they going to be able to thow everyone out of their houses? and who will they be able to sell them to?

      • Steve E

        The are good things that will come from an economics collapse. All the entitlements will be cut off, and that means that the Obama voters will starve to death. And I can say; “See I told you that you shouldn’t depend on government”.

      • moonbeam

        It was the welfare state that got BO re-elected, along with gigantic voter fraud. I can’t tell you how often I’ve heard them talk about the extra income tax check they got, the increase in free checks they got, not to mention their free obama phones, which causes my own cell phone bill to cost me more so these MFrs can have a free phone.

        I know a person who gets a free freaking phone who uses up all her minutes making BS phone calls, then she has her hand out wanting to use mine. I tell her “No, I’m on minutes.” For freaking crying out loud. She gets a free check, food stamps, free medical care has had NUMEROUS free obama phones, then she has her freaking hand out to use my phone? I don’t freaking think so. And I’m not a selfish person, but damn it, I have to PAY for mine. You get yours free, use up all of your resources on it, then your hand is out asking everybody and their brother to use THEIR phone they paid for. They even have to pay EXTRA for their own phone to help pay for YOUR FREAKING FREE ONE!

        This same person who gets all this free sh!t says to me how she parties all day. I said to her “don’t let too many people hear you say that. There are people who work hard so you can party all freaking day.”

        Yep, she is an obama supporter. Is also a felon who can’t vote (this may be a good thing). She pays for absolutely freaking NOTHING, contributes absolutely NOTHING, yet she gets everything that is free to have. I bet you all think I just described a black woman in the hood. Ummm…no…She is caucasian.

        Forgive my outburst, but it is just DAMN frustrating!

    • DaveH

      B rian says — “Republicans want smaller government”.
      What? That was joke, right? Republicans do NOT want smaller Government. If they wanted Smaller Government they would have nominated Ron Paul.
      A more correct phrasing would have been “Republicans SAY they want Smaller Government”. They SAY whatever the Sheeple will swallow.

      • Jeff

        CB:

        You are right (like a broken clock). No Republican president in modern times has done anything to make Government smaller. But it’s not Government’s size that is the issue. It needs to be large enough to escape Grover’s bath tub and to do the things we need it to do. Among those things are regulating the financial sector so they’re not engaging in bets that can bring down the economy. You may not be religious in a traditional sense, but your adherence to purity in economics is as much a religion as are the beliefs of any Bible thumper. Excuse me for not wanting to return to the policies of the 19th Century or even the 1920s.

      • DaveH

        Jeff,
        You just don’t have a clue, do you? Regulations are written to favor certain Crony Capitalists, not to help the consumers. Unless you’re one of the Politically Connected who is benefiting at the rest of our expense, you should read this and learn something:
        http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Ripoff-Business-Government/dp/0471789070

      • Old Henry

        That is absolutely correct, Dave. Absolutely correct.

        I do think Reagan was going to begin dismantleing some of D.C. and that was why they tred to kill him in March of ’81 since they put their boy in place to take over.

    • CaroleAnn

      Republicans always, always say they want smaller government, but they are the ones that always grow it larger, check out their record through out history. They always complain of the debt, then get into office and grow the debt, check their history.How can you still believe them after a 100 years of these same lies? I have my complaints with both parties, but dang, 100 years of telling the same lies and there are still people who believe them. It is just unreal. UNREAL.!!!!!!!! Historical facts that cannot be ignored, but ignored they are. It must be some type of brainwashing.What kind of tea are you consuming?

      • Nobody’s Fool

        CaroleAnn, what kind of koolaid are YOU consuming?!?!? And what are you smoking?? You don’t have to go back 100 years to find who is spending the most money and growing the most government. Let’s do 12 years. In his 8 years, Bush grew the deficit by $4 trillion. In oBlamer’s 4 years, he has grown the deficit by another $6.5 trillion. Half the time, nearly twice the debt. As for growing government, who was it that appointed 40 mostly muslims, although a bunch of communists, too, as “czars” who answer to no one in Congress to do their “jobs”. (Notice that not one of them has any experience in the “field” to which he was hired.) We hear nothing about these people, yet we are paying them fabulous sums of money for whatever it is they do. What they are doing is undermining our Constitution. The goal of President Hussein is to destroy this country through debt overload. He is right on target, because America is sinking fast. The January 1, 2013 Taxmageddon will finish us off. I don’t know about you but paying an extra $5000 in taxes will not enhance my life. But then, you are probably one of those who doesn’t bother with paying taxes, preferring to dine off the government teat.

  • http://http//drjosephabarbier.blogspot.com DrBarbier

    Thr night of the election I told many of my friends the stock market would go down 300 to 500 points and would daily for about a week. Waite until the new year 6,000 to 8,000

    • Flashy

      Hopefully your neighbors stay away from that advice. Since October 15th, the Dow is up 2.67%.

      • hipshotpercusion

        Yeah right, flashy. Everything is rosy and fine. Thats why 41 States want to secede from the Union! you won’t read about it in the Lame stream Media, but its going on none the less.

      • momo

        Nice spin flashman, but since Obama got re-elected the stock market is down three percent.

        http://www.cnbc.com/id/49758790

      • sandman4X4

        Yea right flashy! thanks to you and all your buds we have to even face 4more yrs. How will you and your buds feel when you are all out of work. I know that I will have to have lay-offs in my co. soon, and when the time comes the pink slips go to the………….

      • DaveH

        The Dow on October 15th — 13424.
        The Dow on November 13th — 12756.
        Surprise, Surprise, Flashman is lying. Who would ever have guessed that?

      • Kinetic1

        hipshotpercusion,
        The “secession movement” is a crock. I looked into it yesterday and found that the signers were, in most cases from other states, or even countries! Yes, Louisiana and Texas showed strong support from their citizens, but the Delaware petition was about 85% out of state and the New York petition was started by some guy from North Dakota! Names I picked at random showed up again and again, including a “Monsieur C” from Novelle France. I don’t even know how many of these names are legitimate. It’s worse than the so called voter fraud epidemic being pushed by the right.

        It’s not going to happen, and my guess is it was never intended to. Texas is the most likely to be able to pull it off and their Governor has no intention of moving forward. In fact, at the current rate Texas may be a Blue state in 10 to 15 years, so it’s unlikely they would stay independent for long. No, this whole “movement” is just an attempt to create the illusion that American’s don’t support the President, even though the popular vote count keeps rising as the ballots are finally counted.

      • Old Henry

        Hipshot:

        I heard that FOX News was talking last night, Tuesday, about 20 states getting petition signatures. I guess Texas has 23,000 of the 25,000 needed already in the first week.

        Also, quite a while ago – maybe here – I read that Texas is the only state in the union that put a provision in place that allows them to secede at any time when they initially joined the union.

        • Jeff

          Old Fart:

          You either read it wrong or you listened to some nonsense by Rick Perry in one of his debate performances. No, Texas does not have special permission to secede. There is a provision allowing Texas to become 5 separate states, but that’s hardly the same thing. In a few years, Texas will be a blue state anyway, so all the nonsense is only temporary.

      • Old Henry

        Kinetic:

        Sounds like union voter registration up Nort behind the Cheddar Curtain. Did you see Mickey Mouse anywhere?

      • momo

        Bad news flashman, stocks took another hit today, the market is down 3.7 percent since Obama was re-elected, and 6.5 percent from its high of September 14th.

        http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20121114&id=15794987

      • daniel

        Hi Flashy. The market just dropped another 1885 points to make it over 600 points since Barak was selected. That now makes it 5 percent loss of market value. The layoffs and job eliminations are already started including NBC. That is the good news. The bad news if that this is just the beginning. No, I don’t want revenge so I am not actually smiling as I would love nothing better than to have been wrong.

      • Karolyn

        hipshot – Oh, yeah, a small percentage of people sign a petition and it really means something. Right! Also, as has been pointed our, many of the signers are not even from the state. Just a show of rebellion and dissatisfaction. It’ ain’t goin’ nowhere.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Soros will only prop up the market so long, Flashy, then when he pulls his dollars out all heck will break loose. I hope you are heavily invested in the market!!!

    • DaveH

      There’s only one problem with that prediction, DrBarbier — Monetary inflation. With monetary inflation, all prices rise, including those of stocks. The more likely coming scenario will be Stagflation, in which case prices will rise but Real purchasing power will decline. Believe it or not, we are probably in a relative Boom scenario due to Federal Reserve Money creation. “Boom?” you might say? No, I said “relative boom” meaning that the Fed’s profligate money creation has led to malinvestment (basically an artificial economy, even though still bad). So the Bust is going to come off an artificial level of economy even though in real terms it is already Bad. Thus we will probably have Stagflation where the economy is bad, but prices are rising, including those of stocks. It will be similar to the 1970s, only worse.
      Money creation does no good for economies. It only transfers wealth from the savers and those on fixed incomes to the possessors of the new money.

      • DaveH

        For those who would like to know more than the PTBs want you to know:
        http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

        • Jeff

          CB:

          Have there been no economists since von Mises? I’d think you’d want to throw in a change up every so often, particularly since von Mises did some of his best writing in the 1920s. Certainly, someone is discussing his ideas in the current Milennium.

      • DaveH

        As I said earlier, you have no clue, Jeff. Obviously you are a Government Employee here to harass good people in an attempt to keep them from learning the truth.
        CB? Just shows your level of ignorance, Jeff.
        There are plenty of current modern Austrian economists to learn from. But first you have to want to learn. More than likely, you could care less about learning, since your presence here is obviously intended more to keep others from learning than to learn anything yourself.
        Here is an example of an Austrian Economist slam-dunking Arthur Laffer in 2008:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfascZSTU4o

  • http://personaliberty.com A-New-Hope

    Reducing the defense budget that much will leave us vulnerable. Bottom line. And if it goes through I would bet $ that we will be attacked on our own ground before Obama leaves office.

    • eddie47d

      That’s an easy bet to make and could happen under any Presidency as a terrorist attack could occur at any time or any place. An actual invasion of military forces not a chance.

      • B rian

        Pretty interesting Eddie…… Kinda like this fiscal cliff thing! Coulda happened to any president! Almost did happen to a few of them! Actually happened to one of them. 1 time in the history of the united states in 236 years! And it’s about to happen again! And it was your boy politically, and physically put us here! And your right….. Congress allowed him to do it too! Do you think they will make the same mistake twice?!

    • sandman4X4

      What you say may be true, but the one thing we have going for us, is the privately owned weapons! It would not be easy for any “invaders” to do so, thank to our Founding Fathers, we have the 2nd Amendment! so far……….

    • DaveH

      The more likely scenario will be our own Government attacking us.

      • Old Henry

        Let’s hope we have enough senior military that remember the lesson taught by the Nuremburg Trials and what happened to those who “were just following orders.”

    • Steve E

      That’s OK. We don’t use the military when we need them anyway. Can you say “Benghazi “

    • CaroleAnn

      We spend more on our military than all the other countries in the world put together, so by vulnerable do you mean our ability to invade small nations might be reduced?

      • daniel

        Gee Carol your post shows a great deal of insight. Imagine our military in pre-WWII poitions excluding the Phillipines as they are their own nation now. Imagine the balance of power among the nations of the world. I will guarantee that if you really thoght it through the world would be a lot less friendly place. Chances are people would still be fighting large scale wars everytime financial trouble hit for any length of time. But it you want to still believe what you spout go on ahead. I just gave you another avenue to think along. That is one of the faults of Ron Paul, isolationism might sound appealing but seems in no way practical without reshaping the whole world.

  • Warrior

    Let’s see. Military scandal + Sequestration Military Cuts+ Oblama Meets With Union Heads Yesterday = Hey, civilian army! Atta boy, barry. I knew you progressives could do it.

    • sandman4X4

      Warrior: it truely is a sad state of affairs (no pun intended) when a Pres. can b get a b[]ow job in the oval office, lies under oath, and gets a slap on the wrist, and a pat on the back winkwink, and a 4Star General and head of the CIA with a distiguist record of service gets thown under the bus for a little romance and e-mails, (granted he is married), but then again there is more than meets the eye, (Ben Garzi), but we all know that was to help our pres get re-elected, God help U.S.!

      • Kinetic1

        sandman,
        An 11 month affair can hardly be characterized as “a little romance and e-mails”. I’m not saying that he should have to resign, but to act as if he was just holding hands at dinner is more than a little disingenuous. Of course I thought it was an inappropriate waste of Government time and our tax dollars to go after President Clinton as well.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        At least Clinton had to go through impeachment proceedings for his lies. oBlamer has gotten away with murdering 4 Americans–yes, murder!! Out and out, he and his cronies watched it unfold for seven hours and he ordered the Navy SEALS to stand down and allow the deaths of all those people. The SEALs saved some 20 to 30, making the death toll “only” 4. Perhaps you, sandman, CaroleAnn, Flashy eddie45, Karolyn, Doc Sarvis, and others of your communist ilk should get together and pin a medal on your idol, oBlamer.

      • Kinetic1

        “Nobody’s” Fool?
        The Republican’s waisted almost $80 million on that farce and now you want to go through it all again based on rumor and innuendo? It’s time to do some research instead of depending on disproven right wing talking points.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gmallast Gary Mallast

    Anyone who buys treasuries with the government virtually bankrupt is an idiot. The government will default one way or another.

    Government debt is a bad investment in principle. Adam Smith warned something like “Whenever government having contracted a debt, it is scarce known in history for it to be paid honourably and in full.” (I lost my old copy of Wealth of Nations which had the quote marked and haven’t found it yet in my new copy.)

    Governments always spend every penny they can tax, borrow, or print and then default when they can tax and borrow no more and the funny money becomes worthless.

    Buy commodities. When the government falls off the fiscal cliff, there is a very high probability of a “flight into real values” in which all real commodities’ prices will skyrocket. .

    • http://uncleteddysreeducationcamp.com teddy maher

      Gary …. The government has the option to selectively default….Treasury interest could conceivably go up….

      • DaveH

        What happens when interest rates go up? The values of existing Treasury Debt instruments (bills, notes, bonds) go down to compensate.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        This country has never defaulted on a payment. Never. That is why the Constitution gave Congress the power to, among other things, the power to raise and collect taxes. According to the US Supreme Court (I’m cooking right now, so I can’t look up the case) Congress does not have the choice to NOT pay the bills that we have run up.

      • DaveH

        They default, TL, everytime they create new money out of thin air with no real backing by hard assets.

    • Kinetic1

      Gary,
      “By lending money to government, they do not even for a moment diminish their ability to carry on their trade and manufactures; on the contrary, they commonly augment it. The necessities of the state render government, upon most occasions willing to borrow upon terms extremely advantageous to the lender. The security which it grants to the original creditor, is made transferable to any other creditor ; and from the universal confidence in the justice of the state, generally sells in the market for more than was originally paid for it.”
      Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations, book 5, chapter 3

  • Warrior

    Oh and look who’s bowing out, pelosi, billary, tax cheat huimself and a bevy of other fine progressives. Anyone think these clowns don’t want to be in the limelight when the [expletive deleted] hits the fan?

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      What are you talking about? Pelosi is still the minority leader in the House, and Hillary has always said that she would only serve 4 years even if Obama was re-elected. She, also, said that she wouldn’t run for President.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        tigeer, you better get back to your cooking, I smell something burning while you are typing nonsense on your computer. Back to the kitchen, girlie!!!

        • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

          “I don’t like Obama, so I am a racist.”

          Where did you get that idea? If you don’t use racist speech you won’t get accused of it.

          “I don’t like Obamacare, so I am not compassionate.”

          Who said this to you?

          “I support the 2nd Amendment and own a gun, so I am a gun carrying extremist.”

          I, too, support the 2nd Amendment, but don’t currently own a gun.

          “I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, so I am a religious zealot.”

          Not as long as you do not attempt to make your religious belief’s into law.

  • Dave67

    Where was the Dow in 2008 when Obama took over?

    8000 and it tanked in the fall of 2008 before Obama was elected. How did the Dow ever get back to 13000 with a “Socialist” as POTUS?

    Idiots… your hatred of Obama has made you not only wrong about almost everything, its made you a laughing stock of this nation.

    But keep going… the American people need to know how hateful you people are towards Obama and how scared you are that the white vote isn’t as powerful as it once was.

    • Sailor

      It is you who is an idiot Sir!

      • Smilee

        Really, from your perspective telling the truth makes you an idiot, Your outrageous

      • Dave67

        Is Sailor your last name? Your first name “Drunken” seems appropriate.

    • johnC

      The dow got back to those levels because of the massive printing of money where do you think the money went for the bail outs… it sure as hell didn’t go to shovel ready jobs

      • Sailor

        the counterfit group indeed…and why do they complain to the Colombians when they, too, can counterfit it…no matter how these bastards change the 4 cent dollar; these Colombians will counterfit it just as they do…

      • sandman4X4

        John: we will need those shovels for any of daves next posts!

    • Warrior

      Dave, do you have clue what happens to trillions of dollars that just happen to be provided to banks for the cost of 25 basis points? I didn’t think so. Funny thing, all those “big banks” were making record profits in the aftermath. Guess they just made “better performing loans” eh?

      • Sailor

        The banks own the politicians; hence the so called Federal Reserve; just another counterfit group just like the Colombians…if you did not know; and if you knew the inside of these Colombian Lord, you would be able to buy millions of counterfit dollars and drip them through the Cayman banks for a fee….and a low cost for real dollars…the newer the dollars you pay with the better it is for them to analyze the content of those dollars and counterfit them just as well….don’t believe? go to Miami….lol

      • eddie47d

        At least some of you have a clue in what the Banksters have done to this nation and how they have swindled our nations assets for personal gain. Yes we do know who hides their loot in the Cayman Islands and they aren’t even shy about it.

    • metroman

      Dave, have you ever heard of the Weimar Republic. I guess not look at your comment. The United States is not like Jesus Christ, “always was and always will be.” We are witnessing the death of the Republic because of the people like you. I have the answer but like in the movie; “you want the truth, you can’t handle the truth” good luck.

    • http://Yahoo.com Bill

      It’s a shame that the mantra continues to be “Blame Bush” The facts are that the Dems held congress the last 2 years of the Bush administration. IT WASN’T BUSH’S FAULT. Keep an open mind.

      • Flashy

        Bill..it was for the most part BUSH’S FAULT. The Congress was elected ’06. It sat in january ’07. the crisis began summer of ’07 and Treasury was verrryyyy selective in giving out what numbers it wanted to have folks be aware of. the Banks began to see the dark hole in the fall of ’07, and didn’t make public the instability until Summer of ’08. now…how is it any of a Democratic Congress fault?

        Who deregulated and then cut the regulators enforcing the regs…and politicized the agencies?

        jeesh….

      • Dave67

        Nothing is EVER a conservative’s fault…

        It wasn’t a Conservative’s fault when Reagan help sell out our manufacturing base and deregulated the banks in the 1980′s

        It wasn’t a conservative’s fault when they got rid of Glass Steegal to allow investment banks and savings banks to be one in the same.

        It wasn’t a Conservative’s fault when Bush’s SEC said a 30 to 1 bet by wall street and the big banks made sense.

        It wasn’t a conservative’s fault when Bush’s regulators failed horribly to enforce what regulations there were.

        You idiots are in denial. Both parties have had their hands in the mess that was created.. Obama has the least to do with it and he was tasked to try and clean the mess up. Obama has failed to clean it up partially because morons on the right are more interested in politics than fixing the core problems.

        But keep it up conservatives… You will continue to lose elections and then we can get some things done when you obstructionists are out of the way.

      • Kinetic1

        Bill,
        “The facts are that the Dems held congress the last 2 years of the Bush administration. IT WASN’T BUSH’S FAULT.”
        And the Republican’s have held and continue to hold congress, yet you are happy to blame Obama. Is it the President or the congress who is to blame? Bush made some terrible decisions and the Dems allowed for many others, often under his leadership. Either you place the blame where appropriate or you play your game of party politics. You can’t have it both ways.

      • DaveH

        There goes Dave67 again — “Nothing is EVER a conservative’s fault”.
        As usual Dave67 is mixing terms. And he’s been chastised enough to know better. There have been few Real Conservatives in our Government. Mostly they are NeoConservative Progressives who don’t respect the Constitution much more than do the Liberal Progressives. They both are feathering their own nests at the expense of the rest of us (both financially and Freedom-wise).
        But the Liberal Progressives will keep trying to muddy the waters because that’s what they do best.

      • Dave67

        There goes DaveH having the benefit of 20/20 hindsight who now throws all the conservatives that were in charge off the bus because they fell from the “pure” faith.

        Idiots like DaveH calls these people neo-cons now. Its a wonderful term to get out of being responsible for anything which conservatives never are.

    • Jeff

      As the Richie Cunningham of Louisiana said, Republicans are the stupid party. They believe what they believe regardless of reality. The truth is the stock market historically performs MUCH better under Democrats than under Republicans. Of course, every time the market goes down it’s due to something a Democrat did while all increases are because of Saint Reagan. When you hear the comments of the conservative base, it’s little wonder Republican politicians have to pretend to be stupider than they actually are.

    • alpha-lemming

      “How did it rebound to 13K”……
      Americans are resilient…. they toughed it up and kept pluggin’ away (like they always do) and persevered in spite of, not thanks to, BHO.

      • Smilee

        Then why did they not do that in th Bush era?????????

      • alpha-lemming

        Oh I don’t know…. maybe because 9-11 was a hill to climb not witnessed in this country since the onset of WWII??? Nah…… that can’t be it….. gotta be Bush s*cks…. point taken.

      • Dave67

        Yeah alpha… 9/11 and then using 9/11 to waste 3T dollars in Iraq… certainly had something to do with Bush being “pre-occupied”

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Smilee, perhaps you have forgotten 9-11-01, when the stock market plummented to around 1500. After that it rose to around 12,900, a bit more of a climb than your golden boy “produced”. It rose because of the resilience of Americans, and the belief in the supremacy of American ideals. Now that we have a communist muslim as president, he will put a stop to any growth or belief in American ideals, which he abhors. Get your blinders off, fool, you are missing the Truth!!

        • Jeff

          Everybody’s Fool:

          Are you sure about those numbers? I think you’re way, way off. The market spiked down shortly (not immediately) after 9-11, then spiked back up just as quickly. The bottom was around 7,000 I believe. Anytime the market moves that quickly based on something not fundamental, it rebounds just as quickly. In an economic sense, what fundamental damage did 9-11 do to the American economy? Not that much in comparison to the virtual melt-down of the financial sector in 2008.

          Just keep it simple so it fits on a bumper sticker your compatriots might be able to read:
          “Republican good, Obama bad”

    • DaveH

      The Dow started plummeting in October 2008, when it had become likely that Obama would win the Presidency. Smart investors are looking out 6 months to a year in advance, but in this case they underestimated the will of the Government to dramatically increase money creation and to dramatically increase Government Spending (Stimulus Bills), both of which transfer wealth from the existing owners to the recipients of the new money and Government spending.

      • Dave67

        Blame Obama… is that all you got? Is there a mises.org link that says “Its all Obama’s fauilt”?

        So now its the looming Obama election even though conservative nuts were excited to have the weathergirl from AK on the ticket. I see DaveH… You are full of excuses to blame Obama.

      • DaveH

        You can see evidence of that right now in the recent Stock Market events. But first you have to open your eyes.

      • Dave67

        Are you even an American DaveH?… You like all your other conservative brethren love to cherry pick when it suits your interests…

        So the markets collapsed in Sept of 2008, not because of the banksters or the economic climate of fear and apprehension from their actions but because of the “possibility” of Obama becoming president…

        You are a moron… Yes this is me calling you what you are.

        You don’t even read the garbage you link to do you?

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Dave67, don’t whine. Please. You jerks have been blaming Bush for everything for years. Now you get all offended when someone blames oBlamer. It definitely is oBlamer’s fault, but he will never have the guts to take responsibility for it. A woman (well, Hillary..possibly a woman) had to step up and say she was responsible for Benghazi before oBlamer realized how lame he looked hiding behind her pants, and so he was forced to say he was responsible at debate #3. Just like when his court jester Biden came out of the closet and proclaimed his support for homosexual marriage, forcing oBlamer to proclaim his undying support for homosexual marriage a few days later. What a shame that you commies are so blind you cannot see this. On the other hand, perhaps it is what you want, the destruction of this country, and you are thrilled that the world’s most articulate and intelligent humanoid is in charge while it happens. Sorta like Nero fiddling while Rome burned. Tune your fiddle, Dave67. America is burning.

  • willie

    Dave, an idiot is in your mirror. Did you not read Myer’s reason for the dow to skyrocket after Obummhead took office?

    ‘Democrats were quick to point out how the Dow almost doubled during Obama’s first term. The reason for that was an unprecedented amount of money injected into the capital markets and the policies of the Federal Reserve, which has effectively lowered interest rates to less than zero (yield on short-term Treasury bills pays less than the rate of inflation).’

    Lahooser!

    • eddie47d

      The Federal Reserves indeed propped up the banks who by the way made huge profits when they were winning and losing. On the other hand companies like Caterpillar and Apple made increased profits on their own thus causing the stock market to go up. To say the markets went up strictly because of the Feds is a stretch. The stock market is down because of the pathetic Congress and their stalling tactics.

      • Norm

        eddie47d
        You’re making too much sense. That’s bound to confuse a lot of people at this site!

      • Dave67

        Eddie,

        Stop, you’ll make their heads explode… I am sure DaveH will have a mises.org link that proves that you are wrong about that.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “To say the markets went up strictly because of the Feds is a stretch”.
        Actually that statement is true. There are many factors that drive the price of stocks. However the Federal Reserve’s profligate money creation is one of the major reasons. First of all much of the newly created money is goes to those companies.
        Secondly, all prices rise eventually to gain equilibrium with the flood of new money, including stock prices.
        But then Eddie blows it all by saying — “The stock market is down because of the pathetic Congress and their stalling tactics”.
        Is that an ignorant contradiction of his first statement about not generalizing the mechanism of market movement, or what?
        Then his Liberal Progressive Bud (Dave67) chimes in with — “Stop, you’ll make their heads explode”.
        Apparently, Dave67′s already has.

      • eddie47d

        If Congress isn’t stimulating the economy or at least handling the looming tax issues then the markets will stagnate and wait it out. Even then the markets will be back at some point.

  • johnC

    I believe the republicans should let the fiscal cliff happen It was done in good faith to trim 1 trillion in spending the democrats could not come to an agreement and did not even do a budget for 4 years (This is something the ssenate is required to do) I have one other cost saving thing to suggest since the senate did not do a budget for 4 years seems they owe the American taxpayer 4 years worth of their salaries why should we pay therm for NOT DOING THEIR JOB we should demand that money be repaid

    • GALT

      It’s the senates job, you say? Has a new amendment slipped in when you guys were
      sleeping………

      • Flashy

        Galt…i believe you can find it right under the new amendment allowing a state to secede.

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      The debt ceiling has nothing to do with the budget, other than to pay the bills that Congress has already authorized.

      • DaveH

        The Debt Ceiling is exactly what it says it is. A maximum limit for the National Debt. Ostensibly with a Debt Ceiling in place, Congress would not be able to borrow any more money for new expenditures or those already committed to.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        DaveH,

        This is a repost of what I put on MY blog. It comes with references.

        “When our US Constitution was written it gave Congress the power, and the authorization, to raise and collect taxes. It, also, gave Congress the obligation to pay the bills that our country has already run up.

        The US Supreme Court reaffirmed this in Perry v. United States, 294 U.S. 330 (1935). In fact, part of the ruling was as follows:

        4. There is a clear distinction between the power of Congress to control or interdict the contracts of private parties when they interfere with the exercise of its constitutional authority and a power in Congress to alter or repudiate the substance of its own engagements when it has borrowed money under its constitutional authority. P. 294 U. S. 350.
        5. By virtue of the power to borrow money “on the credit of the United States,” Congress is authorized to pledge that credit as assurance of payment as stipulated — as the highest assurance the Government can give — its plighted faith. To say that Congress may withdraw or ignore that pledge is to assume that the Constitution contemplates a vain promise, a pledge having no other sanction than the pleasure and convenience of the pledgor. P. 294 U. S. 351.
        6. When the United States, with constitutional authority, makes contracts, it has rights and incurs responsibilities similar to those of individuals who are parties to such instruments. P. 294 U. S. 352.
        7. The right to make binding obligations is a power of sovereignty. P. 294 U. S. 353.
        8. The sovereignty of the United States resides in the people, and Congress cannot invoke the sovereignty of the people to override their will as declared in the Constitution. P. 294 U. S. 353.
        9. The power given Congress to borrow money on the credit of the United States is unqualified and vital to the Government, and the binding quality of the promise of the United States is of the essence of the credit pledged. P. 294 U. S. 353.
        10. The fact that the United States may not be sued without its consent is a matter of procedure which does not affect the legality and binding character of its contracts. P. 294 U. S. 354.
        11. Section 4 of the Fourteenth Amendment, declaring that “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, . . . shall not be questioned,” is confirmatory of a fundamental principle, applying as well to bonds issued after, as to those issued before, the adoption of the Amendment, and the expression “validity of the public debt ” embraces whatever concerns the integrity of the public obligations. P. 294 U. S. 354.

        So, once a budget is agreed upon and signed into law, we do not have the right to not pay the bills that arise from it. What is being used to pay the bills, currently, is the debt ceiling. The debt ceiling is to pay for what we have already said that we would pay. It has nothing to do with new budgets. Nothing whatsoever.

        It does not matter which Congress approved of the bills, we are obliged to pay for them once they have been passed and signed by the President. The fact that a Congress is different from the one that approved the spending is completely immaterial. It still has the obligation to pay it/them no matter who approved it/them.

        I have been watching with growing anger for the last 4 years as the Republican’s in Congress have attempted to not pay for our legal obligations with various types of blackmail. What I have the most anger for, however, is the Democrats who have failed, time after time, to point this obligation out. It should have been done loudly and clearly and early.

        I have watched with growing anger as the media refuses to print the fact that we do not have the right to not pay our obligations. And they have refused to. I have written to most of the national publications to ask that they do so. They don’t do it.

        Part of the reason that I have started this blog is because nobody seems willing to point these things out. It’s like the elephant in the kitchen. Whether you acknowledge it or not, it’s still there.

        Our country needs to have more than just me to bring this to peoples attention.”

        Is there any part of this that you do not understand?

  • Warrior

    This “patreaus business” seems very odd. I wonder if “politicians” still employ the use of “operatives” to control the “military hierarchy”? The really odd thing about this is, it’s just a “sex scandal”. No big deal, we had a “commander n chief” a few years back who was boinking an intern on the “resolute desk”. What was that “dudes” name again? Oh well, I do remember he didn’t lose his job over it.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      The Petraeus scandal is a distraction since “all eyes” are being directed to focus on this soap opera. This reads like a made for tv movie script and wouldn’t surprise anyone if it is actually borrowed from some 1940′s book or film. You have your misguided hero, the love interest, the scorned wife, the befuddled friends and cohorts. The president who doesn’t know or care what goes on in front of his nose, must keep himself and his image clean. The departmental shuffles that are going on while no one is paying attention to the sides of the main movie. Where is Shakespeare when you need him.

      • Smilee

        Nadzieja Batki commented on Sour Grapes Or Grapes Of Wrath?
        .
        Are you suggesting Obama should have tried hiding in Petraeus’s bedroom, Petraeus’s behavior has no bearing what so ever on Obama it is a personal matter unless security was breeched. Your post does not make a lot of sense,

    • Karolyn

      Petraeus did the honorable and ethical thing.

      • CaroleAnn

        Yeah! right after being caught doing the dishonorable thing. But I agree, it is a distraction, just the kind Americans like.I seriously doubt there was a breach in National Security. I honestly believe there must be something more to his decision to resign.

  • Louis Lemieux

    Once the fiscal cliff gets fixed and the stock market starts rising, John Myers credibility will sink!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Since you want to predict and prove John Myers wrong, go ahead and tell us when it will happen.

  • Larry king

    Talk about fed employee salaries and Pensions,i grew up in a federally employed family in the early to mid 50′s and the pay was below civilian pay on any comparable type of job. The reason most wanted those jobs was for the benefits and retirement but once the unions got in that is when the salaries started growing fast.

  • http://alsina846.wordpress.com millie

    The bottom line is that this undocumented bogus prez is the worst president this country ever had. This man will bring down the country, and in 4 more years, we may not have a country. This bogus prez hates America and he is a enemy from within. I am digusted with dirty little harry, and congress, they are all traitors.

    • Dave67

      Curious… were you living in this country from 1980 til 2008?

      You seemed to have lived under a rock if you fail to understand the damage Reagan, Clinton, Bush and the various Congress’s have done to this country.

      Yet your feeble brain puts this all on Obama?

      Secede… Now… Leave… Go…. You are too stupid to be a citizen of this country.

      • DaveH

        I look forward to the day when the Constitution-abiding people leave this Union and leave you Immoral Progressives to fend for yourselves. I’ll be hunting for a good pair of earmuffs to protect my ears from all the whining as the non-producing parasites drown in their own ignorance and greed.
        http://mises.org/daily/3427

      • Dave67

        Who are those people DaveH? Specifically past leaders…

        Go…

    • CaroleAnn

      Millie, Do not worry we survived 8 years of Bush. We will certainly survive Obama.

      BTW do you really think there is no background check on people running for office. Do you really think this is the case. REALLY? How could that be?

      You cannot get a job as a cop without one, but you think a person running for President would not get checked out. They get a free pass. Really? You really, really believe this? Do you think the FBI can be fooled by a fake birth certificate? You really think they would not check out all all the facts printed there? Have you ever had a background check? Hell the people who do the checking know more about you than you yourself can even remember. They know every phone number you ever had, how much each monthly phone bill was and who you called and who called you., they know every school you attended, your teachers, your grades. Come one Millie, REALLY?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Playing the prophet? You are belittling Millie for her comment but you don’t know what 4 more years of O will bring. Consequences take time to mature so we may not see them for years and that is what politicians count on.

        • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

          “You are belittling Millie for her comment but you don’t”

          Neither do you.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        These people have chosen, deliberately, to not believe facts and to believe hysteria and fear.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        CaroleAnn, the answer to your crying question is, yes, this president was not vetted. He was given a pass because his puppetmeister George Soros was paying off everybody in DC to get his marionette the nomination. The media is nothing but a democRAT/ Communist (same thing) shill, and you will never hear anything from them that approaches the truth on oBlamer. He is a puppet made of plastic, and stuffed with manure, and no, he was never vetted. His so-called birth certificate is fake, as is every credential he has ever framed and hung on his wall. His school records are sealed because ??? you tell me. Every other president has revealed his school records. Why not the foreign student from Indonesia?? Perhaps you progressive liberal communists could get your boy pal Rachel Madcow to do a documentary on it.

  • texasjayhawker

    Mr. Obama was not “elected”, he was “selected” by the “electroic voting machine”! The election was rigged (as well as in 2008). We are lead too believe we have a country, when in fact we do not. It has been stolen from us at the top!

    • Norm

      texasjayhawker
      If BS were $, you’d be a billionaire!
      How do you make this nonsense up?

      • Smilee

        Fantastic come back!!!!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        How do you, Norm and Smillee, make up your nonsense. For the moment there I thought you two were sharing the same pair of pants.

    • texasjayhawker

      Texasjayhawker says, HOW do you know where your vote went (if you did vote)? When I voted, I wrote in Dr. Ron Paul, selected my researched choices (not DinoCommunist nor RinoSocialist, but my choices). Then I pushed the submit button, and, the screen went blank. NO accountablity, no paper trail, no evidences where the vote went. Only I know and the “electronic voting machine knows! For an insider operating the software, simply in such a large election (national) to manipulate. Joe Stalin said he didnot care who voted or how many times, only who counts the vote! With the electroic voting machine, anything is possible. Read the book “HACKED”, by Truth Enterpirses Publishing. Go by your “common sinse” and “gut freeling”, if you have these qualities. Thank You.

      • CaroleAnn

        Well, hey! I voted the old fashioned way, by a paper ballot. Which I have heard you have a right to request.

        • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

          The whole State of Washington votes by paper, and by mail.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        texasjayhawker, you would be a lot more effective in your arguments if you would use “spell check”. It’s electronic, not electroic. Thanks. BTW, I agree with most of what you said, I’d just like it better if I didn’t have to figure out what you said because of bad spelling.

  • Terry Bateman

    In response to “Sour Grapes of Wrath” from John Myers

    Complaint made in the article about government deficit spending AND
    across the board tax increases and spending cuts makes no sense.
    Across the board tax increases and government spending cuts will
    reduce the deficit by trillions over a decade and will have no lasting
    negative effects on unemployment .

  • Norm

    Companies are generally doing well, certainly much better than 4 years ago. Why did markets drop after the election?
    1. Europe is still a disaster.
    2. Japan is going into recession.
    3. Markets are based on supply and demand. The only way for companies to expand is for the need of their goods and services to rise. This won’t happen as long as there is gridlock in Congress. As long as the Neo-Cons refuse to raise taxes, as favored by the majority of Americans, there will be gridlock.

    Weekly Standard Editor Bill Kristol said on Sunday that the Republican Party should stop defending “a bunch of millionaires” and let the Bush-era tax cuts expire for the wealthiest Americans.
    “It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires,” he said on Fox News Sunday. “It really won’t, I don’t think. I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer to freeze taxes for everyone below $250,000.”
    He continued: “Really, the Republican Party is going to fall on its sword to defend a bunch of millionaires, half of whom voted Democratic and half of whom live in Hollywood?”

    • texasjayhawker

      Yak, Yak Yak. Gubalgoogle, smoke and mirrors. Smoke blowing, rachet jawing, talking heads, nothing more nothing less. Just like a judist goat, leading the sheeple to slauhter. Obama said, many times, no new taxs, no raised taxs on people earning less than $250,000 a year. Well, starting in Jan., 2013 get ready! Bush tax cut raise. 3.8% dividend raise, many new taxs included in “obama care”. Oh yes, tax the rich, (here is where “common sense” comes-in) who is going to pay 40,000 to 100,000 for a “plate lunch” with obama? Tax the RICH, right, get real!

  • jopa

    When the Democrats are in charge the stock market historically always does better, so if you have a 401k you are in good hands.When Obama took office the DOW was at 6500 and look where it is today,I don’t know how you folks missed it but the story above was merely a gold commercial.I think Mr. Myers may be trying to nickel and dime you out of your hard earned cash with a little of a gold scam.It is not easy to buy gold at a credible source today so be careful especially if it’s coins.

    • Linda

      My 401K did better because I kept adding to it while it dropped by 40K. I bought more for less. It wasn’t that it actually did any better – it’s because people like me were holding onto the threads of our financial future. I then delved deep into each of my available fund’s holdings and dumped EVERYTHING heavily invested in ‘banking’ money & mortgages. And I got rid of treasuries and money market funds too. And I’m doing it again this coming year – not only will I max the contribution, but will do the pre tax catch up. I’m going reduce my taxable income as much as possible to offset the tax increases. We’re selling our home and will either rent or live in our RV (which I deduct the interest from as well). That get’s me out of paying the banking industry thousands of interest and the state (aka teacher unions) property taxes. ‘Eff ‘em! I have my little bit of gold & silver coinage, my second Amendment rights and small online stock account that I’m using to teach myself how to understand the market better. There’s still money to be made and it isn’t by burying my head in the sands of T-bills that I might be able to use as toilet paper later (if I can get them issued as paper – might cost more than the value).

      • Smilee

        I lost $35,000.00 before Obama took office and today I have earned all that back plus $10,000.00 or $45,000.00 gain since he took office. Being retired I do not contribute to it anymore so this was all earnings on itself. The economy has steadily improved and that would speed up if the party of “NO” would help find solutions instead of always”NO”!!

      • texasjayhawker

        Smilee, I DONOT believe you!

  • DavidL

    Yes, Conservative sour grapes.

  • DaveH

    John Kenneth Galbraith? You were doing okay until that one, John.
    Galbraith didn’t know what the heck he was talking about. For the real scoop from a Real Economist, read this:
    http://mises.org/rothbard/agd.pdf

    • Sailor
    • Jeff

      CB:

      Your constant trotting out of von Mises like his writings came from Mt. Sinai is a bit disingenuous. Economists have been debating the pure market approach vs. the Keynesian approach since the 1930s. Your hero was correct that the market system was more efficient than the Communist system that was very new in the USSR when he was writing. The reason the Keynesian model has eclipsed the von Mises and Hayek model is it recognizes the reality that while business cycles might lead to prosperity in the long run, we live in the short run. If we can use a bit of planning to avoid Depressions, it’s worth the affront to your religion of pure markets (that can’t exist without Government regulation anyway).

      http://www.auburn.edu/~garriro/macro.htm

      • Flashy

        Jeff…head up..criticism of the “Austrian Economic” model on this site is considered taboo. It won’t work in reality, no one can point out any time it has worked , but to say even that will have you chastized.

        One thing you can do though is laugh whenever DaveH posts a Mises link (which he does almost with each post). More often than not he’s posted it because of the title, not because he’s read it.

        • Jeff

          And I thought the “H” was for “Hayek.”

      • DaveH

        CB? Is that your latest adolescent manipulative technique, Jeff? You Liberal Progressives are like little children. You have nothing intelligent to offer, so you try instead to disrupt the board.
        Jeff for instance says — “Your constant trotting out of von Mises like his writings came from Mt. Sinai is a bit disingenuous”.
        Disingenuous? Where did I trot out Von Mises writings? You’re so ignorant, Jeff, that you don’t even know who authored the book.

      • DaveH

        That’s how it works, Flashman. I post information with backup links so that people don’t have to just take MY word for it, unlike you useless Liberal Progressives who spout your conjecture with no evidence offered whatever.
        Thank you guys for posting though. Without you, the readers might go on thinking that Liberal Progressives (in spite of their advocation of stealing other peoples’ money) are good people.

        • Smilee

          Propaganda sites are not proof davy and 90% of the sites you refer us to are just that. You read so many of them you are drowning in them and drowning men are not interested in the truth only in survival. You make so little sense it is pathetic.

      • Flashy

        Smilee…DaveH doesn’t read the material in the links he posts. Maybe..and that’s highly doubtful maybe…he’ll read a Cliff Note on it then spout on about it thinking it gives him some sort of legitimacy to being learned.

      • Sirian

        DaveH,
        I agree with what you say – they never offer any sources. Is that not usual? Now then, as a side topic, and no doubt it will ruffle your feathers as much as it did mine, jump to the link I’ve listed below. Nope, you won’t be any more of a “happy camper” than I. Flasho, Smilee and the rest wouldn’t dare read this. Then again, they just might think it’s the best thing happening since the invention of sliced bread.

        http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/11/northwestern-u-marxism-conference-packed-with-teachers/#

      • DaveH

        Sleepee (nother of the useless Liberal Progressives) says — “Propaganda sites are not proof davy and 90% of the sites you refer us to are just that”.
        Feel free, Sleepee, to point out any errors in their statements. It should be easy since you claim they are 90% Propaganda. But you can’t because they aren’t.
        Add Sleepee to that list of Liberal Progressives who have a credibility problem.

        • Smilee

          If your so sure they are errors then why not point out the truth in them, it does not exist so you can not so you challenge others to do it for you. (your lazy too) You are overly arrogant when you think you are creditable when if you were honest about this garbage you espouse.then you would do it in a credible way

      • GALT

        Dare I criticize the austrian model….what’s her name……mostly you can trash the
        whole pageant……watch………….

        excerpt from the book Econned.

        “In 1776, Adam Smith published The Wealth fof Nations. In it he argued that the uncoordinated actions of large numbers of individuals, each acting out of self interest, sometimes produced , as if by “an invisible hand,”results that were beneficial to broader society. Smith also pointed out that self interested actions frequently led to injustice or even ruin. He fiercely criticized both how employers colluded with each other to keep wages low, as well as the ” savage injustice ” that European mercantilist interests had “commited with impunity” in colonies in Asia and the Americas.

        Smith’s ideas were cherry picked and turned into a simplistic ideology that now dominates university economics departments. This theory proclaims that the “invisible hand” ensures that economic interest will always lead to the best outcomes imaginable. It follows that any restrictions on the profit seeking activities of individuals and corporations interfere with this invisible hand, and therefor are “inefficient” and nonsensical.

        According to this line of thinking, individuals have perfect knowledge both of what they want and everything happening in the world at large,and so they pass there lives making intelligent decisions. Prices may change in ways that appear random, but this randomness follows predictable and unchanging rules and is never violently chaotic. It is therefore possible for corporations to use clever techniques to reduce and even eliminate the risks associated with their business. The result is a stable productive economy that represents the apex of civilization.

        This heartwarming picture airbrushes out nearly all of the real business world.”

  • Sailor
  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    I expected just that. An old lady in Michigan lived in very rural home with her huband until he died. Out of boredom she started to feed the bears that were coming around. A neighbor warned her about feeding the bears as friendly as they seemed to be so she stopped feeding them. They kept coming but their attitude seemed to change, They became very aggressive. Finally people didn’t see her and when a neighbor went to investigate he found her 3/4′s eaten.

    That’s exactly the game that Obama’s playing. He’s building an army with the predator side of America’s society. Once the producers balk loud enough and try to quit feeding the predators? Conditions in America are building towards martial law, and the good guys are playing right into his hands, Divide to conquer. Thesis: A society at peace. Anti-thesis: A society in turmoil. Synthesis: The new society that emerges after martial law. He rejoices in the things that are happening. I don’t know which year but we’re duplicating what happened during the Communist takeover. “The only thing new is the history you haven’t read yet”.

    The ONLY solution is enlightening predators to become producers and God is the best way to do that, The way we’re going, read and believe John 3:16. Enlightened God fearing people may not save America but they can save themselves.

    • CaroleAnn

      Christian American,
      What will you say when none of your predictions do not come true. Obama is further from being a Communist than even you are.,

      You should read Frank Schaeffer’s book PATIENCE WITH GOD. Or look him up on youtube, he and his family rubbed shoulders with the Bush family and some of the nation’s most prominent Christians. You might be interested in what he has to say about the Republican party today.

      Frank Schaeffer started the right to life movement in this country.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        O is playing at being all things to all people but there are people that are not seduced by his charms. But since you are singing the siren song of the wonders and charms of O, shouldn’t you go onto one of O sites.

      • eddie47d

        Romney had Obama beat in that category Nadzieja. He’d tell a different story to each and everyone of his audiences.

        • Jeff

          Romney could take two different positions on an issue within the same sentence.

  • Smilee

    Cute!! never the less wrong and stupid!!

    • texasjayhawker

      Nothing of substance to offer. Yes, common sense prevails. This nation needs Yashua! In the end HE will save it. But before that happens, get ready for the “dogs of war” for tribulation is coming!

  • Peter 10-nov-1775

    It would seem that there are now more takers than makers in America, hence the halfrican’s re-election. Hey Moochelle, for the second time in my life I am truly disappointed in my country.

    • Jeff

      Let’s hope you live to be disappointed many more times.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Jeff, how many more times do you think oBlamer will be “elected”?????

    • CaroleAnn

      Peter, I do not know if that is true, but if it is, could it have something to do with the fact we lost 22 million jobs during the Bush administration. Should we have just let those people starve? Let them live in tents like refugees? Do you really believe that these people who once had jobs are in some way at fault.? That seems so cold, fire him and then call him a loser, a taker. Really?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Such a sweet do gooder and always by way of the welfare state. You care so much then stick your hand in your own pocket and support all that have their hands out. No one is stopping you. What a phony you are.

      • eddie47d

        Corporations made huge profits even after the markets crashed Nadzieja. The workers didn’t see what was coming and that private sector is still shy about bringing their jobs back. You are worse than cold hearted in trying to brush it off like that.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        All Peter is doing is repeating more nonsense from Ann Coulter.

  • Cory Christofferson

    Overlay a chart from the crash of 1929 followed by a 3 year recovery and then a multi year drop way below the 1929 low. We are in the same situation right now. Only problem this time , our countries broke and most don’t even know how to grow a garden!! fun times ahead!

    • John Myers

      Dear Cory,
      Great post! I could not agree more. Thank you, and thanks to all of you for reading.
      Regards,
      John

  • boyscout

    “The markets are pure. They don’t have prejudices or preferences other than to make money in bull markets and retain money in bear markets.”
    Wow, what a great concept! There’s no manipulation there, There’s no crony information trading with banker and government thieves. There’s only honest numbers to guide investers and help America to greatness.
    And, would that it were so.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Right on, boyscout and tigeer and Dave67,

      Don’t forget about the fact that computers are now with us and 70% of all stocks are held for less than 20 seconds by the “manipulators”. Those with the fastest computers (even by milliseconds) are the winners in the race to bleed wealth from the pockets of the many and concentrate it the overstuffed pockets of the few.

      And where is DaleLC? He is even more adept than DaveH at providing us with useless “information”..

  • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

    “The markets are pure. ”

    LOL The markets are driven by speculation, they are not pure. They can definitely be manipulated, as it has been shown repeatedly in the past.

    I’m not sure where you are getting “the markets are pure” crap, but whoever it is is lying to you. Outright and clearly.

    • Dave67

      You mean there is collusion and manipulation going on in markets like oil with the OPEC cartel, Big Oil firms, and their agents working together to make max profit for themselves?

      my god… That must be wrong…

      I must consult mises.org to find the truth.

      DaveH says the market is pure…DaveH do you have a 300 page link that you have not read that tells us the unvarnished truth???

      We need your leadership now more than ever DaveH.

      • DaveH

        Dave67 says — “DaveH says the market is pure”.
        Oh? I did?
        Perhaps, Dave67, you could show us where I said that? Don’t any of you Liberal Progressives tell the truth?

      • GALT

        Yeah Dave 67, DavidH has never, ever said that……..

        He wants “free market, unregulated, voluntary transaction, capitalism”, which is what
        he has………but what he has is “crony capitalism”, which while being “free market, unregulated, voluntary transaction, capitalism” is completely different!!!!!!!!!!!

        It’s all so simple……you are just all too stupid to understand what DavidH means???????

        Even DavidH has this problem……..it’s just not his fault. ( no childe left behind came
        along too late to save him )

  • Deerinwater

    John Meyers says; “The markets are pure. They don’t have prejudices or preferences other than to make money in bull markets and retain money in bear markets. The day after the election, the markets voted — or, more to the point, stampeded — in a massive sale that saw every single stock in the Dow fall sharply in the first couple of hours of trading.”

    I say , “Horse Feathers!”

    It was not a vote, but a few who choose to react ~ that way. attempting to let their disappointment be known. and the markets are filled with illusion and tomfoolery John Meyers and you know it.

    They were salivating with the thought of “no Capital Gains tax!

  • Steve Schitt

    Here’s the difference between a DEPRESSION and a RECESSION…. In a DEPRESSION, you have to wait in line for two hours, for a bowl of free soup, but in a RECESSION, you have to wait in line for two hours, for a bowl of soup, but the bowl of soup costs you a hundred dollars..!!!

  • G. Martin

    Read this article and how Obama and union heads are planing to sell out the american workforce. Take notices that broker the idea that the government emplooyes or elected officals take less. Where is their skin the game.
    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/nov2012/obam-n14.shtml

  • CaroleAnn

    Well G. Martin,
    Somehow this just have the ring of truth to me because Mary Kay Henry just asked me to sign a petition for congress to:

    1. create jobs and grow the economy.
    2. PROTECT MEDICARE, MEDICAID, AND SOCIAL SECURITY.
    3. Let Bush tax cuts for the top 2% expire and require corporations to pay their fair share 4. Protect vital public services.

    Seems to me if the heads of the labor unions were out to do what the article you are referring us to is correct then this petition I was asked to sign would be against what you say they are trying to achieve. Right?

    • Nadzieja Batki

      The petition just happened to be given to you to sign and you just couldn’t wait to write all about it.

  • Deerinwater

    You guys , ~ still don’t get it. ~ SSDD. ~ Fear! Fear! Fear! The sky is falling.

    It ‘s like there was never any election at all.

    Well ~ the rest of us will not be ruled by fear, ~ so entertain yourself with it.

    Karl Rove and Mitt Romney are blaming everything but themselves for Willard’s bid for office.

  • Steve Schitt

    Actually, MY “beef” is the FACT that twice in a row, we had an INELIGIBLE CANDIDATE on the ballot, that was elected by the LAMESTREAM MEDIA.. They also covered for obama, and have been LYING for him, and ridiculing everyone who’s tried to have him PROPERLY VETTED.. obama was NEVER PROPERLY VETTED, and he carries a deck of RACE CARDS in his back pocket, and uses them every time anyone calls him into question..!!! We need to round up everyone in the media, and every COWARD in the goverment that’s been aiding and abeting him, and do to them and obama, what SHOULD BE DONE…!!! i’m SICK of this “Race Card” HORSE[expletive deleted]..!!! i don’t like the smeil of horse manure, no matter WHAT color horse it comes out of..!!! And if Congress refuses to do their JOB, to oust obama, then WE ONLY NEED 34 STATES (the necessary 2/3rds MAJORITY) to BREAK AWAY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, and WE CAN DO THAT, WITHOUT GOING THROUGH CONGRESS, OR THE SUPREME COURT, OR THE PUPPET IN CHIEF… THAT IS IN THE CONSTITUTION (or is it the Bill or Rights?) AND IT IS COMPLETELY LEGAL… ZIONIST JEWS OWN THE NEWS MEDIA, BUT THEY REFUSE TO EXPOSE OBAMA’S INELIGIBILITY, (SINCE HE’S A DUAL CITIZEN AT BIRTH) BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY U.S. CONGRESSMAN AND SENATORS THAT SERVE IN THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT ASLO.. DUAL CITIZENS.. JUST LIKE OBAMA…!!!!

    • Jeff

      Every word in your post is untrue – even the prepositions. You really need help with your ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome).

      • Steve Schitt

        That’s a typical obot reply… Just call every TRUTH a LIE, and every obama LIE, the truth.. Hey, i CHECKED ALL THIS OUT…BEFORE i posted it.. Our foundng fathers did NOT WANT ANYONE WITH BACKDOOR TIES TO ANY FOREIGN COUNTRY (ESPECIALLY ONE THAT WAS UNDER BRITISH RULE, LIKE KENYA WAS IN 1961) TO SERVE AS PRESIDENT.. Obama needs BOTH PARENTS to be U.S. CITIZENS, AND HIS FATHER NEVER WAS… THAT IS TRUTH.. And as far as the Zionist Jews owning the lamestream media, that is an UNDENIABLE FACT… Of course, you will NOT get much of this information, by sitting there in front of your television set, being BRAINWASHED, AND SPOON-FED what they want you to perceive as “NEWS”.. Certain newscasters have been let go, for not covering up for obama.. THE TRUTH WILL COME OUT, IN SPITE OF ALL YOU KOOL-AID DRINKING, MINDLESS OBOTS…!!!!

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Jeff, everything in your post is wrong. You need help with your S….that’s STUPIDITY!!!

  • Steve Schitt

    Can’t we all just get along?

    • http://google brand inspector

      We all can get along when the book trained theorists, produce something besides BS. The socialist/marxist and the socialist/communist dems, get a working mental organ. Second fire 95% of worthless government staff and employees, so they get to work in the real world!!

  • James

    Steve, Do you mean to just let Obama have his way? This is what it boils down to. Remember his first two years in office he wouldn’t let the republican”s in, everything was done behine close doors. Clinton’s first couple years was rocky until he met in the middle and this helped. Obama, it’s his way or none!!!

    • Steve Schitt

      Hey, when i said, “Can’t we all just get along?”, i was being ridiculous… a bleak attempt at humor… No, obama needs to GO…!!

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        Sorry. You are going to have to deal with him for another 4 years. I suggest that you get used to it. Denying reality is never a good move.

        • Jeff

          On this blog, denying reality is the first and only option.

          • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

            Good point.

      • eddie47d

        Notice how the Stock Market has been way up most of Obama’s first term yet nary a peep of positivity from these loons. Now it is down and somehow they are all aboard and giving each other high fives in going after him. They are so predictable Jeff.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Jeff says:
        November 16, 2012 at 7:39 am

        On this blog, denying reality is the first and only option.

        Jeff, you are certainly proving what you say. You are in deep denial of the Truth, and unfortunately for you and your bud tigeer, your stupidity is showing. Please, go get involved in a communist site that will far better suit you and will lower your blood pressure since you won’t have opposition to your views.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        Nobody’s Fool ,

        Do you have any facts to state? Or is this all you have – childish statements?

  • James

    The democrats want to raise taxes and spend. You CAN NOT spend your way out of debt.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      And how did we get into such a hole with our debt? The Repugnants BORROWED and spent. They put the country in hock so that the 1% could get richer. We ARE going to have to SPEND—-that’s what governments do to provide the services that hold the country together. And it’s about time that the tax structure is changed so that the vultures of the plutocracy pay their fair share.

      • Steve Schitt

        Hey, Right brain thinker.. If YOU opened up a bank, and spent all the money, to the point that there was NO MONEY on hand, for withdrawals, what do you think would happen to YOU…? Or how about Bernie Madoff.?? But it’s okay for the government to do what everyone else would be imprisioned for… Mathematics is an exact science… and sooner or later, it WILL catch up, and bite the government and the U.S. DOLLAR where it hurts the most..!!! WE NEED TO ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE..!!! It is a mathematical impossibility, to EVER PAY OFF THE NATIONAL DEBT.. Not when the federal reserve (for a cost of $1,000.00 – in paper, ink, and labor) prints up a million dollars in paper currency, and then, turns around and LOANS that PAPER to us, at interest..!!!

      • http://google brand inspector

        RightBrainack,

        Since the inception of the democrap party, they always want centerlized power, with serf/slaves giving all they earned to the beltway smucks. Read what pukes, perverts, and just plain idoits that inhabit the demrat group. Thedorks that inhabit the dem ID, never do a honest job at anything, but spend our tax money on regulators on everyone and everything, anyone wants to do in life. That is create more deadasses that wpll not work, vote for socialist/marxists and live off of somebody else. You must still have your mama tail you up, when you inhale water in you under water knitting class!

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        According to the US Supreme Court, Congress does not have the right to NOT pay the bills that we run up. At all. For any reason.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        tlgeer says:
        November 15, 2012 at 10:26 pm

        According to the US Supreme Court, Congress does not have the right to NOT pay the bills that we run up. At all. For any reason.

        tigeer, could you give me book, chapter and verse on that, please? What you just said was that oBlamer could run up any bill he wants to and Congress will have to foot the bill. Right? Is that what you said?? So, to bring that home, we could just go on a spending spree, like say, a trillion dollars for “stimulus” for our closest friends and supporters, and the “congress”–that is the taxpayers, even though you are too stupid to realize that all bills are paid not by congress but by taxpayers–gotta pony up the money. I guess it wouldn’t matter to you who paid it, since you are one of the takers, not a taxpayer. You’re one of the leeches of society. And stupid to boot.

        • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

          “What you just said was that oBlamer could run up any bill he wants to and Congress will have to foot the bill. ”

          No, that’s not what I said at all. Congress decides who/what gets money. The President signs it into law. If the President veto’s it, it goes back to Congress. They can override that veto if 2/3′s of each house votes to do so.

          CONGRESS is in charge of allocating the funds, not the President. Once it is allocated and signed into law they do not have the right to NOT pay the bills arising from it.

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      Nobody’s Fool,

      Perry v United States
      http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/294/330/

      Specifically 4-11

  • Smithkowitz

    The fact is, both parties put the country where it is today; it was the people behind those parties who are responsible. We all know who those people are, you know, the ones who are worth millions and billions. Slavery wasn’t abolished, it was expanded.

  • Steve Schitt

    i think it’s time for 34 states to get together (the required 2/3 majority) outside of congress, the puppident, and the supreme court… Just side step them all.. The Federal Government has just gotten out of control, and out of touch with the Constitution.. If EVERY government official that violated their oath to the Constitution were prosecuted (the way they should be) then just about every congressman and the imposter in chief, and biden would all be rotting in jail, where they should be.. i simply refuse to accept the idea, that we all just have to lie down and let them all rob us of our freedoms… And as far as the illegals that sneak accross our borders, they are COWARDS…. They SHOULD be taking up pitchforks, and standing up to the tyrants that rule them, instead of coveting the LIBERTY and FREEDOM that our fathers bled and died for.. They should ALL go back and take back THEIR countries..!!!

    • Jeff

      What about W and Cheney? How about Reagan? Why not dig him up and put him in jail, too? Do you have any idea what you’re talking about? Your entire rant contained not one fact, not even one allegation of wrongdoing by anyone. Ad hominem attacks on everyone in government do not substitute for evidence of wrongdoing.

  • Steve Schitt

    EVERY government official that violated their OATH to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION should go to prison..!!! And yes, that includes bush and cheney, for covering up the fact, that 911 was done by the israeli MOSSAD.. It was the “Pearl Harbor” type of “event” they needed, to ram the Patriot Act down our throats… We CAN break away, with just a 2/3 majority… Judge napolitano is the one that pointed that out.. go to youtube, and watch some of his videos, if you insist on “references”, and points of law.. Jeff..

  • Steve Schitt

    Romney should NOT have been the Republican to run against Obama, because neither Him or obama have the GUTS to ABOLISH THE FEDERAL RESERVE, like Ron Paul..

  • jopa

    Well I guess the DOW blows this story out of the water now that it has risen 270 points as of yesterday.I just thought I would mention that since I figured it would not garner a banner headline here.When the Democrats are in charge the market historically always does better.

  • Steve Schitt

    Someone commented here, about the fact that Bill Clinton did a LOT worse than Patreas, but Bill didn’t catch near as much “hell”… Now, a friend of mine told me that “You would think that “obama would have had the C.I.A., or at least someone a lot better at forgeries compile his (fake) birth certificate and (fake) draft registration certificate for him”… That was the “reasoning” my friend laid out, for doubting Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s official report, that said documentation was a “Very Poor, pathetic forgery”.. i told my friend that (when you really think about it) the President is historically the one to NOT get prosecuted for HIS wrongdoing, but his UNDERLINGS are usually the ones to “take the heat” the most.. To which my friend agreed.. So now, we have Patreas getting creamed for doing about one percent of the EVIL that obama has… And if you really LOOK closely at the “statements” made by Hawaiian officials, (in regards to obama’s birth certificate) you will se that they have been very careful, about how they “word” their “endorsements”, etc..

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      “That was the “reasoning” my friend laid out, for doubting Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s official report, that said documentation was a “Very Poor, pathetic forgery”

      The fact is that Arpaio was grandstanding, nothing more. He didn’t have the right to even ask HI for Obama’s bc. However, the State of AZ used the national program to verify bc’s and got the return that it was valid.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Babby660

    Good lord, guys, suck it up already. Stop whining & get to work. If Mr. Moneybags won, that’s what we’d have to do.

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