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Sikh Temple Shooting Questions Arise

August 7, 2012 by  

Sikh Temple Shooting Questions Arise
Page is profiled as having been a white supremacist, radical who was involved in a neo-Nazi white power band called End Apathy.

The shooting tragedy at a Sikh temple in Milwaukee on Sunday has again put the “frightening” ability of Americans to obtain firearms in the headlines. As was the case with the Aurora, Colo., movie theatre tragedy, there are conflicting reports and strange coincidences associated with the official story.

Authorities allege that six-year military veteran Wade Michael Page, 40, entered the temple Sunday morning and began gunning down congregants, killing six and wounding five others. Page is alleged to have also shot and critically wounded the first responding police officer before being killed by officers.

Initial reports of a “highly organized” attack on the temple involving as many as four shooters have led to speculation from some people of whether or not the official narrative surrounding the event is accurate.


According to Milwaukee’s Journal Sentinel, police are currently trying to trace a single semi-automatic handgun found at the scene of the shooting. According to reports, they were also searching for a “person of interest” on Monday who was seen videotaping the scene amid the media flurry following the tragedy. The man sports a tattoo in remembrance of 9/11 similar to tattoos Page is reported to have had on his body.

Page is profiled as having been a white supremacist, radical who was involved in a neo-Nazi white power band called End Apathy. The bald, heavily tattooed man was also reportedly put on a watch list of hate group members compiled by the Southern Poverty Law Center after contacting the National Alliance, a racist organization.

Some alternative media sources contend that Page has all the markers of being a patsy in a false flag operation.

According to Prison Planet:

…[T]he establishment media follows the official narrative now being formulated – the shooter was a white supremacist with telltale racist tattoos who a) belonged to a political group that will be scapegoated and held up as an example of violent rightwing extremism, or b) was a “lone wolf” who followed racist political philosophy (more than likely sharing attributes outlined in the Department of Homeland Security’s “rightwing extremism” document, including the supposed threat by returning veterans).

Media speculation that Page was working along with a greater white supremacist movement and the current classification of the shooting as an act of domestic terror raises questions of how the Department of Homeland Security may react to the incident in coming weeks and months. Similar to Aurora, Colo., shooter James Holmes, officials have noted that there was no reason for Page to be on the government’s radar prior to the shooting.

During his military service, Page reportedly received basic training in Fort Sill, Okla., moved to Fort Bliss in Texas and finished at Fort Bragg, N.C. From 1992 until 1998 he served as a member of the Army’s Psychological Operations Unit, according to military documents.

According to an Army field manual from 2005, the unit’s primary function is to convey selected information to influence a population’s emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of foreign governments, organizations, groups and individuals.

The manual states:

The purpose of PSYOP is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to U.S. national objectives. PSYOP are characteristically delivered as information for effect, used during peacetime and conflict, to inform and influence. When properly employed, PSYOP can save lives of friendly and adversary forces by reducing the adversaries’ will to fight. By lowering adversary morale and reducing their efficiency, PSYOP can also discourage aggressive actions and create dissidence and disaffection within their ranks, ultimately inducing surrender. PSYOP provide a commander the means to employ a nonlethal capability across the range of military operations from peace through conflict to war and during postconflict operations.

Speculation remains that Page exhibited some of the same disturbing psychological markers that have been associated with Holmes, and there are questions of whether pharmaceutical drugs were involved in the temple shooting.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • eddie47d

    His psy-ops training is somewhat immaterial since he was never deployed overseas and didn’t use his training to any degree. Now these racist skinhead groups show up in the news every so often and is probably where he developed his hatred and “call to action”. He enjoyed the underground culture and played in 8 different far right bands. He belonged to the Hammerskins Nation which has neo-Nazi ties besides the National Alliance. He had 5 weapons permits while living in North Carolina although only used one 9mm in the Oak Creek shootings. He also had a drinking problem which occasionally got him into trouble and the reason he got booted out of the Army.

    • JeffH

      “His psy-ops training is somewhat immaterial since he was never deployed overseas and didn’t use his training to any degree. Now these racist skinhead groups show up in the news every so often and is probably where he developed his hatred and “call to action”.”

      Immaterial beause he was never deployed? Yeah, right…I guess whatever training he was given is immaterial and he just forgot whatever he learned…DUH!…now that’s some criticle thinking for ya’.

      eddie, you again believe what you’re spoonfed by your media sources. At this point in time, much the same way the Zimmerman/Martin info had beed speculated on, there isn’t enough info on this guy to yet make anything but an uninformed call.

      The fact that this guy played in a skinhead band makes him no more and no less of a hater than you, who clearly hates anything to the right of your far left state of confusion.

      • eddie47d

        I read up on this guy before I posted so it looks as if you are the uninformed troll Jeff but apparently you can’t help yourself. The same as in the Zimmerman case so keep defending the loonies to make yourself feel better.

      • JeffH

        eddie, where in my comment have I defended this loon?
        Again, you ability to comprehend has been clouded by your inability to be truthfull…in short, you are a liar!

        FYI…eddie the repeating parrot…Polly want a cracker? baaarrraaaccckkk!

      • JeffH

        Another point eddie, you are a HYPOCRIT. You chastise others for name calling yet you have no problem calling those you don’t agree with “names”.
        You are a HYPOCRIT eddie, just admit it!

      • eddie47d

        Wake up from your slumber Jeff .”makes him no more or less a hater than you” So implying that I’m in the same category as a mass murderer isn’t name calling. Your nothing but Cheap Cheap Cheap condescending Creep and blindly ignorant in your accusations. Now troll along before you stick the other foot in your mouth.

      • JeffH

        eddie the “PARROT” say,”Wake up from your slumber Jeff .”makes him no more or less a hater than you” So implying that I’m in the same category as a mass murderer isn’t name calling.”
        Your words, not mine.

        Dummy, what I said is “The fact that this guy played in a skinhead band makes him no more and no less of a hater than you, who clearly hates anything to the right of your far left state of confusion.”

        Now you point out, which you cannot, where I implied that you were in the same category as a mass murder? I did correctly state that just because he played in a skinhead band doesn’t make him “no more and no less” a hater than you…and you are clearly a hater.

        The shoe fits so wear it.

        Now you may continue on with more of your incoherent rants.

      • eddie47d

        Since you continually have the same replies to me I believe I can decipher your nonsense and know exactly what you mean. Stop practicing your Alinsky tactics ….Boring!! Yawn!!!

      • JeffH

        Hey dummy! Like I said, you can “PARROT” all you want because that’s all you’ve got…take a good look in the mirror sometime if it not already broken.

      • eddie47d

        What’s the matter Jeff you forgot to pick up all your marbles last time. Yawn!!

      • JeffH

        eddie, could you repeat that please, I don’t understand dummyspeak.

    • JeffH

      When crimes like this occur, it is common to hear discussions of the need for improved gun legislation to prevent crimes like this from occurring again. More gun legislation will not help, there needs to be a greater discussion of ways to reduce such crimes by preventing people from developing the mindset that they need to take revenge against society by mass killings of random people (or any people for that matter).

      An important issue for society is to determine how and when someone transforms from a happy normal child to a reclusive member of society who goes on a mass shooting rampage. The reality is that the transition is usually not one that occurs over night, but typically results from years of negative life experiences combined with poor coping resources and vulnerability to extremist influences. In the case of Wade Page, his step-mother has said that she has “no idea” where he changed. However, the early history provides some answers of how the process of social alienation unfolded. None of these factors alone are sufficient to explain a mass shooting rampage, but putting them together can sometimes culminate in a tragic event.

      Even within his own sub-culture, Page could not fit in. A girlfriend reportedly cheated on him with a band member, resulting in the band dismembering about a year ago. In early June 2012, a girlfriend reportedly broke up with him and he moved out of his residence with her. A friend described him as emotionally upset and hurt. He was fired from multiple jobs (e.g., truck driver, parts coordinator) over the years, once because he did not want to take direction from a female co-worker. He lost his house in February 2012 when the bank seized it after a foreclosure.

      Essentially, Wade Page seems to be a person who grew up in the face of tragedy and instability, tried to fit in society but failed, identified with the white supremacist subculture but had a falling out there as well. His life had fallen apart and he took out his anger on the society he disliked, focusing on those he had completely dehumanized. He may have been planning his rampage for a few weeks because when he moved out, he lived alone and rarely left his residence. He did not return a call from his father three weeks before the shooting. He barely made eye contact with people and did not want to be engaged. He was blasting aggressive music from his radio, which was likely channeling his anger. He was avoiding human connections perhaps because he did not want to have any such feelings should they interfere with his plans. Of course, this is speculative, but clearly, he was angry and upset at the time. While people recognized he was acting strange, no one felt concerned enough to contact police.

      • SJJolly

        IOW: Someone who couldn’t make a go of it in life, and decided to go out with a bang, bang, bang, attacking a group he probably thought was Muslim. Doesn’t appear to be any good way to prevent such from happening, not even 100% gun control. Not long ago, an individual of the same type in China, where obtaining guns is very difficult, killed 11 people with a knife.

      • BR549

        The bottom line has nothing to do with firearms anymore than it does with skinheads filling up 55 gallon drums with gasoline and driving headlong into a crowded shopping center. Taken a bit more to the absurd might be a spate of punji pits being put in Central Park to snare innocent strollers. What would we do next, outlaw cars, buying gasoline, or visiting the park?

        Instead of looking at the REAL issues we have about citizens becoming further disenfranchised from their own culture, our legislators continue to point the finger of blame onto all those souls who “lose it” and act out as our society’s miners’ canaries. If anyone were REALLY paying attention, what we would be doing is decentralizing our cities and getting more people back in touch with the soil and cohesive communities. The globalists know this and yet continue to reinforce this socially self destructive behavior because, while we take out our hostilities on each other, we continue to keep those wealthy maggots in positions of power while we drive down our population numbers through aggression. The elites wish to stay elusive so that the average Joe on the street can’t focus on the source of the problem from above, so he takes out his aggression laterally against his fellow citizens; they KNOW all this; our legislature, the Supreme Court and whatever excuse for a president we have for the moment.

        You’d know that a legislator was making a difference when he challenged the status quo and broke ranks to inform the populace of this deplorable behavior by the wealthy, ……. but how many of those legislators are willing to sacrifice their OWN positions of power? That is why we hear the same useless drivel on the evening news and nothing ever changes.

        The real bottom line is one that supports the our Constitution as a model that supports the growth of the human spirit and a higher realization of whatever supreme being one believes in. The problem with that is that the higher up we all aspire to, the more we all become one and the same …… and the ultra-wealthy want no part of sharing what they’ve managed to steal from everyone for all these years.

        So, rather than seeing all these recent “attacks”, however contrived they may ultimately be, as the problem, they are, more accurately, messengers that indicate where and how far our self-appointed population planners have continued to drop the ball.

      • JeffH

        BR549, your last paragraph is pretty darn close to right.

      • auhunter

        If what you say is true, he would have never been able to get into PSYOPS, on the other hand, being a loose cannon, that training may have been just enough to set him off in the direction to his final decision.

  • David Yatalese

    They’re trying to get the public to view this evil man as a “right-wing-extremist”. Possible, I guess. But what were his political affiliations? Does anyone know? I can guess!

    I think the man was a registered Democrat. I think this with no proof, truthfully. I’m only making a logical deduction.

    To wit; If the guy were a Republican, it would be all over the alphabet news! Liberals would be crowing so loudly, folks would forget about Chick-fil-A! If, as I believe, he was a Democrat, it will be left to Fox News to out his party and Fox has other priorities. Crowing ain’t one of them.

    • Robert Smith

      “But what were his political affiliations? Does anyone know? I can guess!”

      The guy was a right wing extremist and and part of a hate group.

      BTW, I don’t think having been in the Army over 10 years ago is revelant. The fact that he was discharged under less than favorable circumstnaces is.

      When are folks going to learn that speech, like firearms, needs to be used responsibly.

      Enough hate.


      • Walter Bliss

        What makes him right wing? The only thing making him right wing is you and the liberal press calling him that with your lying smear campaign. Nazi’s are left wing. They are progressive/socialist/ communists. The Nazi’s quote communist philosophies and lived by them. They had a strong powerful central government that told you what to think and do. The government owns everything. If anything they are more left wing. Or maybe you can just be honest and acknowledge that they are just nuts. Loco. Out of their minds.

      • DaveO

        @Robert Smith, Sounds like your very not fond of the first and second amendments. Any other amendments you don’t like? Where did you get the right wing extremist from? Let me guess, the tv news? We all know they always tell the truth, now don’t we.

      • eddie47d

        David: It’s the far right groups he was in and the music that he played in his bands that showed what his political leanings came from. Groups that play the German Volksmarch at their meetings are definitely not Liberal.

      • Guiltless man

        “Everyone speak responsibly except me.” It appears that Robert wants to keep the irresponsible and unproven claims franchise all for himself.

      • mark

        Walter Bliss, the Nazis despite the false and propagandist use of socialist in their name (similar to the North Korean who ludicrously call themselves the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea) were right-wing totalitarians. A large private capitalist sector flourished under their regime with huge amounts of small businesses and large corporations. The did not own everything in the German economy by any means. Their fiercest hatred were directed against two groups – Jews and Communists. A key reason for their hatred of the Jews was their belief that they were the creators of Communism. The Nazis imprisoned, killed, and tortured every Communist in Germany during the 1930s. They continued this policy against all the Communist of Europe – slaughtering them at every opportunity. In June 1941 Hitler and the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union determined to destroy Communism once and for all. They called for and received support from numerous right-wing European volunteers also determined to wipe Communism from the face of the earth that later became the infamous Western Waffen SS Volunteer Divisions. These forces and the Nazis called for a huge continental-wide crusade to destroy Communism once and for all. They nearly succeeded as they got with 15 miles of winter by early December 1941. If the Nazis were Communist, why was their prime political and military goal to destroy Communism? Why did Communism finally destroy the Nazi regime as the victorious Red Army conquered Berlin in April 1945 if this was a fellow Communist movement? This disinformation that the Nazis were Communists is constantly repeated on the site and provides further proof of the lack of basic historical knowledge of so many of its contributors – and this includes the authors of many articles. The Nazis were a fascist, right-wing movement despite the fact that they had some collectivist elements in their program. Just as the United States is an ovewhelmingly capitalist, democratic republic despite the fact that it has some collectivist elements within its society (Social Security, a socialist-style, organized U.S. military, etc.)

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Sorry boys Eddie hit the nail on the head on this one ! the bands he played with are all right wing white power bands . I know a bit about this because in the early 80s a lot of the people i ran with were right wing skinheads and i still listen to a lot of the older music , Screwdriver , No Remorse , Saga ,( not the band from canada ) One of my favorite songs saga sings is Tomorrow Belongs To Me ( you tube it ,its a beautiful song .

      • Buster the Anatolian

        “If the Nazis were Communist, why was their prime political and military goal to destroy Communism?”

        There is only one difference in Communism/Socialism and the Nazis/Fascism. The Nazis/Fascism permits ownership of private property. Both systems use TOTAL government control to achieve their ends including telling companies what to make, when to make it, what they can charge for it , and who they can sell it to. Both also control all aspects of the individual citizens life such as what he/she will be paid, where he/she can work, etc. As far as Hitler invading Russia, he did not do it because he hated communism he did it because he hated the Russian people and thought there were only fit for graves or to be the slave of the “superior race” meaning Germans and because he wanted the natural resources in Russia for Germany.

      • mark

        Buster, there are numerous other very important differences between communists and fascists besides the monumental difference that communists believed in total control of the economy while fascists did not. Fascists believe in the cult of masculine, military violence (Note the Nuremberg rallies and their worshipping of military might, heroes, uniforms, weaponry, etc.). They subordinated women while communists opened a broad range of formerly “men’s jobs” and opportunities to women. The Soviets were far ahead of even Western democracies in this regard with huge numbers of women doctors and scientists for instance. Fascists believe in the traditional, conservative role for women in their societies. Fascists all accepted an accommodation with the majority traditional religion – another conservative position. There were no mass closing of churches in fascist countries as there are and were in all communists countries. Fascists were fanatical nationalists. Communists believed in a universal communist state that all nations and people should adher to, they rejected the traditional nation. Fascists believed in racism and racial superiority of their own people over racial inferiors. Communists rejected racism and supported anti-colonial struggles in the Third World for people of color to liberate themselves from foreign control. Communists instead called for class struggle and identified the upper class and middle class – not any specific races – as the enemies of the people. Fascists believed in crushing and murdering of all ethnic minorities. Communists for the most part brought minorites into their totalitarian movement. Fascists have a fever for the glory of war. They always called very forthrightly for annihilating their enemies on the battlefield, witness many of Hitler and Mussolini’s speeches. Communists downplay this and typically tried to achieve their goals through diplomacy, subversion, co-optation.

        Certainly there are some similarities between their movements but there are also huge differences which clearly mark Fascism as a more conservative movement of the right. Communism on the other hand is clearly a revolutionary movement of the left that seeks to utterly transform society by changing the economy entirely, ending all traditional religion, and elevating communist ideology and the communist party over the traditional notion of the nation. Communists in fact despise the traditional view of the nation and its historical heroes who to communists were simply upper class enemies of the people. The Nazis and the Italian fascists on the other hand fully embraced the glorious historical past of the German and Italian people. Hitler wanted to restore the glory days of Medieval German and its mythic past. Mussolini hope to resurrect the Roman Empire. Stalin on other hand despised the Tsars and their historical legacy except during one period of peril when the Germans were at Moscow’s gates and he resurrected a film homage to of all people, Ivan the Terrible, the very worst of the tsars whom most Russians hated.

        Also Hitler stated very clearly in speech after speech, and in his writings and recorded table conversations, his supreme desire to exterminate Bolshevism and wipe Communism off the map. He arrested, tortured, and killed virtually the entire German communist party in the 1930s. Yes he wanted the economic resources of the Soviet Union but he also very clearly saw his war against Russian as the great political destiny of his movement and as a crusade to destroy communism forever.

      • Berry

        Part of the confusion between Nazism and Fascism is the conflating of “nationalist” with “right wing.” The Nazis were not Fascists. They were socialists. Both systems (in fact, all collectivist systems) rely on a tight relationship between government and industry. But they differ in how they forge that relationship. Fascism proceeds largely through corporatism, which depends on government regulation of the economy. This is the method preferred in the United States. Nazism stated up front in its charter that it would nationalize industry as needed, a method similar to that employed by the communists. A great deal of the Nazi political apparatus was derived directly from Soviet models.

        It’s entirely possible that the Nazis overstated the degree of socialism they were willing to pursue, in order to take advantage of the socialist fervor that was sweeping Europe at the time. They certainly employed methods that were outside the purview of typical socialist governments. But there was actually very little about them that can be considered “right wing” in a conventional or modern sense.

        That being said, the confusion between “right wing” and “Nazism” is so pervasive that it’s not unreasonable that a so-called “right-wing extremist” wouldn’t identify with Nazis. But racist extremists are far more likely to be interested in the xenophobic aspects of the ideology than with the economic.

    • Ralph

      Wrong method employed David …. let Harry be your Professor.

      You don’t ” think that he is a registered Democrat “, but rather you ‘ Heard from a Source that he is a registered Democrat ‘

      ……….. gotta play the game with the same deck used against you

    • Jimmy The Greek

      Mark Thank You ! You know what you speak of , you should have told the rest of the story , The United States sided with the USSR , and Karl Marks a jew was the father of communism .

      • mark

        Yes Jimmy, but after a 4-year alliance of necessity to defeat the dangerous Nazi threat, the United States as a capitalist, democratic republic quickly turned against the Soviets again. From 1917 through 1941, Washington was strongly anti-Soviet and did not even recognize their government until 1933. As for Karl Marx, yes he was born a Jew but as an adult he was a non-practicing one and an atheist. One of the most scurrilous and hateful propaganda smears of the Nazis was to condemn an entire religion for the historical accident that a man who rejected Judiasm later played a role in the ideological formation of communism. (By the way, the overwhelming majority of Marxists saw the Soviet Union especially under Stalin’s rule as a perversion of Marxism). A white man Hiram Maxim invented the machinegun – a weapon that helped kill millions of people – does that mean that all whites are responsible for the deaths committed by men who used machineguns?

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Mark The United States would have come out much better in the end if we would have help the Germans rid the world of communism and zionism at the same time , today the middle east would be peaceful Europe would not be the Multicultural crap hole it is today and America would not be under the control of the zionist dogs that own AIPAC and any one that gets into office .

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Mark the reason the Germans hated the jews was because of Stab In the Back that the jews of Germany did in WW-1 Does the Balfour Declaration ring a bell ?

  • Anastasia Beaverhouser

    the liberals have to lie, manipulate and conive to get what they want……the truth comes out though. Americans need to keep a close watch on our president and all of his goonies…..learn to distinguish truth from fiction. NOTE-truth doesn’t pass the lips of a liberal.

  • Lowell Green

    Is it possible that these loonies are purposely brainwashed by individuals of the anti-gun group to further their stand on 2nd amendment issues?

    • .50BMG

      Hypnotism- I heard (but don’t know for sure) that Mr. Batman doesn’t remember anything. Could also be a way out of jail.

  • Rennie

    Add to this that the Tucson shooter is so doped up for trial he is unlikely to remember anything, and that the VA tech shooter had undergone psychiatric therapy, and the extensive work done by the KGB and probably our govt as well in mind control/programming experiments, it makes you wonder how many more are out there just waiting, like in that old Charles Bronson “Telefon” movie? I have no doubt the left is getting desperate, and they don’t care how many they hurt or kill to stay in power.

  • Bernard England

    It never fails, when something that the left has more than likely caused, the right is to blame. If the Islamists , black panthers, gays, etc. had not been pushed out in the public causing racist bias by the regime that is causing more people to act out. The biggest racist people are the Gov’t that looks down on everybody as dumb peons.

  • Ted Crawford

    There are still far too many unknowns here to make any decisions. Could this be a drug induced rage? Yes. Could this individule or even the group he hung with, have been co-opted to serve someones political or personal agenda ? Yes. Could he have mistakenly assumed they were Muslims ? While, given his training, that seems less likely, the debilitating effects of Bigotry on ones intellect, makes it possible.
    Hoping not to seem too callous, I submit that we, as a Nation and an Electorate, have more urgent considerations now! Still, given the clandestine and divisive nature of politics in general and this administration in particular, I’ll be watching with an inhanced peripheral vision !

  • Walter Bliss

    There is nothing right wing about these neo-nazi’s. If you know anything about the Nazi party, then you know that they are more closely related to the progressive/ socialist/ communists with their a strict authoritarian central government. Hitler quoted and held to many communist philosophies. They will tell you what to think and do because they know best. There is no home of the free and the brave in their philosophy. Doesn’t this remind you of a major political party here in the USA. But these neo-nazi’s are nuts. They are one fry short of a happy meal. So this verbiage calling them right wing or left is just plain nuts too. It is dishonest smearing of conservatives by the progressive liberals (ie. communists).

    • eddie47d

      Seems like you are doing your share of smearing Mr Bliss. What did you think of Bernard England’s comment at 8:03 who went on a blame the left tangent. When this Wade character is deeply embedded in far right groups it would be extremely hard to lay it on someone else. The groups he did belong to were racist and violent in nature but they are definitely not conservative either. Most Conservatives and Progressives are not into these fringe groups who live in a world of their own. We need to separate the chaff from the wheat.

    • Norm

      National Socialism (common English short form Nazism, German: Nationalsozialismus) was the ideology of the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany. It is a variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism. Nazism used elements of the far-right racist Völkisch German nationalist movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary culture which fought against the communists in post-World War I Germany. It was designed to draw workers away from communism and into Völkisch nationalism. Major elements of Nazism have been described as far-right[weasel words], such as allowing domination of society by people deemed racially superior, while purging society of people declared inferior.

      • mark

        The Nazis also launched an all-out war against communists in Germany and all of Europe throughout their existence. They invaded the Soviet Union determined to wipe Bolshevism from the face of the earth. Mein Kampf, Hitler’s bible is brimming with his absolutely raging hatred of Communism especally Jewish Communism and Bolshevism as he called it. All of Hitler’s allies: Mussolini, Franco, Antonesceau, Horthy, Pavelich were also ferocious anti-Communism. Just because a duplicitious and lying political movement calls itself socialist to gain working-class support does not make them socialist by any means. The horrific totalitarian North Korean gov’t calls itself the Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea. But this regiime is not Democratic, a Republic, or ruled by the people. Why do people on this site so blindly accept the propaganda of monstrous totalitarian groups? The Nazis called themselves socialist, so they must be socialist. After all the Nazis would never lie. The Iranian mullahs call America the Great Satan, therefore we must be the Great Satan. Because the Iranians – like the Nazis – would never tell a lie. Unlike our government the Nazis always told the truth. We does this laughable naivite come from? Never believe anything that Washington says, but believe everything that Washington’s enemies say – such as the Nazis claiming to be socialists and the Iranians claiming that they are liberating the Middle East.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Go get him MARK you have done your homework well A+

    • Chester

      Walter, funny how you link three unrelated parties all to one rather nasty item. The Nazi party was neither liberal, fascist, socialist, or communist, just as none of those four are the same. All parties share some few common interests, but the core beliefs are far different. As far as this gentleman who pulled the trigger in that Sikh temple being any of the above, the Nazi party would come the closest in their core beliefs to what he expressed. To the best of my knowledge, the Nazi party and its spinoffs are the only ones who PUSH white supremacy. As far as him being a patsy for anyone, it may well be that he was a patsy for some group he was associated with who wanted to get rid of him as too much of a destabilizing influence.

    • Jimmy The Greek

      Walter you sound like a G W Bush neocon liberals and conservatives are not much different , Man up boy and come over to the far right .

    • JeffH

      Walter, your comment is very close to fact!
      Progressivism was a major reform movement that began in the late 1800s. The movement shared the intellectual roots of European state theorists such as Hegel and Marx. In 20th century Europe their ideas came to fruition in the forms of communism in Russia, national socialism––that is, Naziism––in Germany, and fascism in Italy, respectively.

      These movements were ideological cousins of American Progressivism, certainly not isolated from one another; their respective leaders read the same philosophers and made the same arguments, albeit in their respective cultural contexts. Before the outbreak of World War II, American progressive intellectuals had many good things to say about Mussolini and Hitler. Their admiration for these dictators was drawn from their ability to mobilize and centrally plan national economies and society in general, to give “direction” to the otherwise “chaotic” social processes of democratic societies and capitalism. Progressives’ admiration for authoritarian rulers was not quelled after the ravages of the war were over. On the contrary, they went on to admire the machinations of Stalin’s heavy-handed ruling of the inhabitants of the Soviet Union.

      • eddie47d

        Jeff must live on the same banana boat Walter Bliss does. Both eat from the same plate of ignorance.

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Please do not call democRATS “Progressives”. That would indicate forward movement. They love to use euphemistic words to cover their real agenda…such as substituting the word “choice” for abortion. One out of every four babies dies from “choice”. Let’s not talk about the murder of the most innocent of all, the unborn, though, let’s call it “choice” and turn our heads from the carnage of 56 million victims of “choice” or “progressiveism”. They are not progressive, they are regressive, and they are LIBERALS. Don’t fancy them up with better sounding names. Call them what they are: communists.

      • JeffH

        eddie says, “Jeff must live on the same banana boat Walter Bliss does. Both eat from the same plate of ignorance.”

        Ignorance is bliss.

      • eddie47d

        Congratulations Jeff you finally admit it.

      • JeffH

        No eddie, it just flew over your head!

      • eddie47d


    • JeffH

      Hitler was spawned in the Progresive Era, he was the worlds Top Progressive. Eugenics and Population Control were the new Progressive ideas (very popular in the US) Margaret Sanger legitimized population control and Hitler took the ball from there.

      Christian Hartsock, writing in ChronWatch uses an interesting word to describe collectivists. He uses a term coined by Bruce Walker, author of “Sinisterism: Religion of the Lie”. The word sinister comes from the Latin word for left. Referring to what Leonidas calls “collectivists”, he includes liberals, progressives, socialists, fascists and Marxists as epitomized by such luminaries as Hitler, Lenin, Mussolini, Franco, Mao and Peron.

      In my humble opinion, Sinisterism has been the central governing element of Nazis, Soviets, fascist dictators, militant secularists, radical liberals, and the pathetic lowlifes at the ACLU. Their collectively shared hatred for God, Christianity, moral values, and the value of human life instills in them a spirit of Sinisterism. Contemporary liberals have sought to eliminate acknowledgment of the prevalence of Sinisterism by coming up with labels to equate Nazism with fascism, Christianity and conservatism and liberalism with liberty and liberation. But as Walker writes, “The term ‘liberal’ has nothing to do with freedom and everything to do with coercion.”

      Furthermore, Walker effectively deconstructs the semantic stigmas deceptively conjured up by liberals to euphemize their inherent evil. As he writes: “The reality is that Sinisterists sometimes call themselves ‘socialists’ or ‘liberals’ or ‘progressives,’ and that they sometimes call themselves ‘Marxists’ or ‘Trotskyites’ or ‘revolutionaries,’ or that they also sometimes call themselves ‘fascists’ or ‘national

      When liberals are not trying to pass Nazism off as “fascism,” they are attempting to pass it off as an extreme form of “conservatism” and an inexorable byproduct of Christianity.”

      • mark

        Unfortunately Bruce Walker is neither an academically trained political scientist nor an historian. He is an attorney and amateur author. I found his book very unconvincing. Nowhere in it does he demonstrate a nuanced understanding of the various fascist, socialist, and communist movements in history. He lumps them altogether when they were actually all very distinct movements and groups historically opposed to one another at various juncture. He does not capture their historical hostilties toward one another and their very different approaches to the organization of society. There are numerous, much more historically sophisticated analyses of these political ideologies. See for instance: A. James Gregor’s Marxism, Fascism and Totalitarianism; Michael Arthur Ledeen’s Universal Fascism; and David Priestland’s The Red Flag: A History of Communism. These are difficult books in places but they reveal the complexities of these movements and are written by seasoned historians who have spent years in their fields of study and conducted lots of overseas research unlike Walker.

      • JeffH

        mark, mark, mark…and neither are you an expert, academicaly or otherwise. Why should I, or anyone for that matter, take your word on anything, especially where your progressive “religion” is concerned.

        Bruce Walker’s credentials: He is the author of more than seven hundred articles on current events and history, which have appeared in Law & Order, American Daily, The Christian Science Monitor, The Docket, Mens News Daily, the Oklahoma Bar Journal, Intellectual Conservative, The Single Parent, WebCommentary, Port of Call, The Pragmatist, EnterStageRight and many other periodicals.

        Christian Hartsock is certainly well educated, well read and well qualified to make those comments. He is a director, screenwriter, producer and political columnist and activist. He earned his B.A. in Film and Video Production from Brooks Institute in Santa Barbara and currently produces, directs, and writes films including the music video for Guns ‘N Roses’ “Sorry,” as well as the conservative rap music video Victicrat and the short film Sycophant which he wrote and directed, as well as the award-winning feature film The Lives of Better Men which he produced.

    • mark

      See my note to Buster above about the huge and important differences between Fascists and Communists. They are profound and helped shape the course of twentieth-century European history. Had these two movements been allied and the same, there would have been no World War II as we know it. You are aware, I hope, of the ferocious battle between Fascists and Communists in Spain during the blood civil war there (1936-1939)that served as a prelude to World War II. Study that important conflict to get a better grasp of the profound differences between Fascists and Communists and the horrific violence they used against one another in an effort to destroy their respective movements.

  • DaveO

    So I guess the liberal gun control nuts will be calling for more gun laws again. Before you start, I didn’t see anything about so called assult rifles here. You liberals should read the Constitution, second amendment, check the word infringed in the dicionary as to what that means. In simple teams so even liberals can understand, any and all gun laws and gun control is unconstitutional. It has gotten to a point where you liberals are forcing us to arm ourselves. Liberal judges with slap on the wrist and turnstyle justice. Your blame game that its not the criminals fault but society made him do it. Illegal aliens overrunning the country.The government is stripping away rights every day. Maybe at one time the democratic party stood for something of meaning. Today its a party of queers, crooks, slavers, and commies. The real Americans are sick of you. Don’t even dare to call yourselves American, the democratic is no longer American.

    • mark

      “Maybe at one time the democratic party stood for something of meaning. Today its a party of queers, crooks, slavers, and commies. ” Maybe you should join Page’s group, Dave? By the way according to recent polling data, 43% of the U.S. military votes Democrat. There are millions of more registered Democrats than registered Republicans in our nation today. Very few of them fit the insulting categories you have expounded on with your typical intellectual brilliance. Welcome to this site. You will love it here. Feel the hate. It is just about all that drives this blog.

      • Oneguess

        So, is that why YOU are here, mark?

      • eddie47d

        He’s probably here to set you straight One Guess and all the other radical nonsense that gets printed as fact.

      • DaveO

        @Mark, 43% of the military votes democrat? Then why is obama sueing Ohio to stop our servicemen from voting? Maybe there are millions more democrats then republicans, thats why we have this jerk in the White House. As far as hate goes, why don’t you tell me all about it. You feel good libs thats alll you talk about. You guys hate the rich, the small business owners, anybody that believes in God. So don’t tell me about hate. Now run back to George Soros and ask how to answer.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        That’s because the military is about 43% is black and 25% other than white !for the good of the country we must bring back the draft .

      • mark

        Dave O, Obama is NOT, as you well know, suing to prevent U.S. servicemen from voting in Ohio. This is the latest Goebbels-like Big Lie being pushed by rightwing sites and outlets. Obama is suing to ensure that all Ohioans can have extra days to vote – and not just servicemen. No one can prevent U.S. service personnel from voting. This issue is not about that at all. It is over whether everyone – and not just service personnel – should be given some extra days to vote. Obama supports the latter position – as do millions of Ohioans. Let’s make it more convenient for all registered voters to exercise the franchise this fall.

  • D A Y


    • eddie47d

      Instead of painting Wade Page exactly for what he is you all do the blame the liberal game. You run you hide you deviate from everything but the truth. You look for excuses to cover your own guilt and hatred and you are doing a piss poor job of it. Neo-Nazi’s are right wing and Communists are left wing and there is nothing hard about distinguishing the two. Both groups are intolerable but each chases after their own agenda and pulls in lunatics from either the left or the right. The Hammerskins are a right leaning group who dislikes gays,blacks,browns and Jews. Same philosophy as the KKK but without the religious overtones. Both harbor visions of an armed revolution but most members are silent in public about that. Their literature and books explain their deep seated hatred of anyone not like them. Wade Page did not develop his rage until after he joined that neo-Nazi skinhead group. These Hammerfest festivals are very lively with a multitude of Aryan Power symbols and tattoos and booths set up distributing their propaganda. The bands that play at these gathering put that propaganda to music so that was bound to affect the thinking of Wade Page.

      • Frank

        Eddie, Eddie, Eddie where to begin

        In the current definition of politics in this country, Left Wing means big government controls and Right Wing means limited government. I realize this is a limited and grossly overstated definition but for this discussion it is relevant.

        I will agree that true Communism is by that definition Right wing since there is little or no government required in pure Communism. However, there is no true Communism in the world as we know it.

        For supposed communism I will use Russia as an example to define Left or Right wing government. Communist Russia had a totalitarian government, everything was controlled by the government (Left Wing). Stalin was a tyrannical dictator much like Hitler. The Ideology of their country was even borderline Fascist in that they even believe, as Hitler did, that they are superior to all other people in the world. They even had oppressive laws concerning Jews that only differed in nature to the Nazi’s in that they did not kill them. If it sounds like maybe Communist Russian and Nazi Germany are very similar in ideology you are on the right track.

        Since I give credence to this information, that means that both Communism (Communist Russia) and Nazi’s are Left Wing governments.

        I would further challenge you to give an example of a Communist country that does not have a totalitarian / dictatorial government.

        In closing I would like to point out that you made a statement that counteracts your assertion that the killer was right wing. You said that Neo-Nazi’s are Left wing. Since he was a member of white supremacists then he must be a left wing radical not right wing.

        Now, to a related subject. I dont remember who posted it but I want to refute two points.

        Hitler did not invade Russia just because he wanted to get rid of communism. He Wanted to conquer the world, all of it, so Russia had to go. Also, to say that Russia defeated Hitler just because the Red army invaded Berlin is wrong. The Allies, led by the United States, destroyed Hitlers war machine which enabled the Russians to go into Berlin. The allies defeated Hitler, and in my opinion, it would not have happened without our participation.

      • eddie47d

        Frank,Frank,Frank there is no true capitalism either but so many believe there is. So what were you blabbering about oh yes Nazism not being right wing. Sorry… lock stock and barrel. Whether Hitler or the Argentina generals they both killed leftists and demanded obedience to the right..

        • Frank

          It is a fools game to attempt to enlighten those who are incapable of learning so I am a fool for talking to you but that is my only sin. You can make stupid comments about anything you want (which you do about everything) but, that does not change the truth. Nazi Germany was the extreme form of left wing government, totalitarianism is by definition total government control. If you think they were not totalitarian then you are lost to human kind. But then you think (erroneously) that right wing means big government? Tell us all what it is that you THINK. Please, give us an example of some form of original thought from your mind. Oh, and keep up the attempts at denigrating me. It does not bother me coming from you.

      • JeffH

        Frank, eddie the PARROT has given you all he’s got…original and contrived. As you can see, thinking is not one of eddie’s strong points.

      • eddie47d

        Is lying a part of your heritage Jeff? Boring!!

      • JeffH

        eddie, you’re a proven liar many times over…you’ve yet to prove me a liar, ever.

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  • dan

    Just another sleeper operative…no story here…just another dead moron and one less voter for Der Fearless Leader….move along.

  • Winddrinker

    As the UN Treaty for gun control is being “discussed” and signing is eminent, the shootings have increased. These appear to be “false flag” incidents to promote support for gun control in the U.S. The government seems to be implementing some of the secret experimentation that they are doing on soldiers, individuals, and soon to include the masses through obamacare. There are many means to control a population through immunizations, food and water additatives (why don’t they want us to grow our own food) and so called “medicines.”

    Have always heard that anything imaginable can happen or is happening somewhere. The changes to this country, during the last nearly four years, has put government in a totally different light than most Americans previously preceived it. I am not sure there is anything that it won’t do, nor any extremes it won’t take, to achieve total control.

    • Tamra A

      Just one little observation, Winddrinker, have you not heard all the snarky comments the right have been making for years about Michelle Obama? About how she wants us to eat healthy, exercise, get in shape? About how she wants us to “grow our own food?” About the White House garden? So we have the first lady suggesting for years that we have gardens and grow our own food, and you are actually claiming that they don’t want us to grow our own food????? Crazy much?

      • William Amann

        Maybe she should tell that to the EPA!

    • John J.

      Right, except it has been put into action for longer than four years – it’s just heating up faster now.

  • Samuel W. Baugh

    From a past personal experience where I was drugged by a union strike force I would like to know if an autopsy has been performed on the shooter and then what drugs if any were found in his system? There are drugs and then there are drugs as witnessed by the US Militarys use of mind altering (mood chemicals) in the Gulf War on US Soldiers to be better ready for combat (Hulk Meat). Remember the drink Red Bull is a civilian application of the same chemicals.

  • http://personallibertyalerts Bruce Parker

    The timing and pace of these latest mass shootings leaves me no other course than to suspect them as x”False Flagx” events. The Aurora,CO shooting came a week before the UN ATT,Arms Trade Treaty, was to be signed by Hillary Clinton and Obama circumventijng the Second Ammendment. Branding this shooter as a White Supremist and “Domestic Terrorist” only adds to the percieved threat and strengthens the anti gun lobbys position. Do Not be distracted by these events. either or both may have been fabricated by the government to facilitate a Problem, Reaction, Solution type scenario!…

  • Wayne

    Anyone who has been employed through a govt agency militarily or civilian has the ability to be brainwashed and programmed… Why are people reporting multiple shooters just like Colorado and Arizona? These are eyewitness accounts yet the news lies blatantly and then smears the man as being a nazi… He would not confuse the Sikh as Muslims either… You the govt will not take the people’s rights to bear arms… You will have to kill us all which doesn’t seem like a big deal to you!!!

    • Chester

      So, Wayne, who worked on YOUR brain? You seem to display all the symptoms of having been brainwashed, fixed attitude that you MUST be right, as all who disagree with you are wrong, Think about that, if you still have the capacity for thought, and aren’t just a rightwing programmer’s dream.

  • Daveh234

    I can’t believe anyone on here anymore.
    Another conspiracy, the Govt.. did it?
    But all other claims is the Govt. is too screwed up to accomplish anything correctly.
    He’s a messed up individual.
    He was mentally unstable and a bigot. He had access and experience with guns.
    He went off the deep end.
    The Obama administration has to have had a hand in on it.
    really sounds plausible???

    • Tamra A

      Wow, conservatives sure love turning a tragedy into a partisan argument, don’t you all? DaveH is right, crazy people do crazy things, period. I find many of the comments here, though, to be pretty (expletive deleted) crazy as well. What is wrong with you people??? Sure, the gov’t is behind these shootings, just like the gov’t was behind 9/11, right?? God people, get a freakin life and stop acting like lunatics. I am reposting some of your craziest comments on other sites so people know just what kind of loony toon comments the far right are making. You all are, obviously, the ones we need to be afraid of. Obama seems so sane compared to you guys. Obama 2012 because the right has lost their (expletive deleted)!

      • M

        It’s called FREEDOM OF SPEECH Tamra A.
        Yet another scary liberal trying to insight bias, racism, and violence.

      • eddie47d

        You sound like another Conservative who doesn’t have a clue in what right wings groups are capable of doing and are busy blaming others for your lack of insight.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Well let me help you out with what you post on other sites to show how crazy we are obongo’s ole lady done went and planted watermon in back of da white house and at night she wears a 100lb potato sack for a night dress

    • http://liberty Tony

      To Dave: Right on with your assessment. Let’s face it everybody. This man was a malfeasant, who couldn’t cope with society. He had a tough time holding a job after being in the military. In addition, he,probably, had post traumatic stress from being war time situations. Therefore, we all need to end these bizarre conspiracy theories!!

    • Frank

      What is plausible is determined by the individual. Possible is what is being put forth as a theory, that is a reasonable way to discuss the tragedy. Asking questions is how humans learn, it starts with the most important question we ever ask “WHY”. It is also the first question most people ask.

  • Mr. Nun Ur Beznes

    Fast and Furious failed, it was exposed and could not be the scare tatic it was intended to become! So Hillary and Barry are now either provoking or are paying carzies to do these public shootings so as to either invoke full gun bans or to invoke Marshall Law and both just days before the elections, either way, mark my words there will be more, people are feeling hopeless! No job, loosing their homes, no money, and the feeling of no hope, all are triggers for trouble! These are well orchastrated, fully funded media shows made to scare the masses into surrendering their guns and to make the NRA collapse and have to say that these uses of guns were bad! Stay focused on November 3rd! Vote Romney, vote GOP for the senate, or we all lose!

    • Daveh234

      But the triggers were all caused by a recession started by another administration.
      So who is the culprit? Are the two side working together on this….a bipartisan conspiracy?

    • eddie47d

      So Mr Nun, Barry and Hillary are behind these mass shootings? How about the irresponsible SHOOTING off of your mouth and claiming fiction to be fact. You give free speech a bad name. Please report to ward # 1 to begin the process of admission.

      • phideaux

        Blameing Mr Nun, Barry and Hillary makes more sense than blameing the guns like you do eddie.

      • eddie47d

        Don’t worry Phideaux I do blame the person behind the gun too!

    • modans55

      “Well-orchestrated”? What color is the sky in your world?

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  • Chuklz

    Look for the common thread of the shooters in Aurora and in this case. Note that “psychology” seems to be a common thread – the playground for gov’t experimentation and such for many decades now. Eric Loughner was into “Conscience Dreaming” – a “new wave” area of psychology and mind manipulation. Holmes was studying neuroscience. Page – Army PSYOP. Is it just me that observes this commonality among the shooters?

    • r.p.

      This is why conspiracy theories abound. I don’t believe this is a random coincidence either. Too many dots are being connected to not consider an agenda. Too many coincidences to just shrug them off. MKUltra is alive and well in Ahmerika.

      • Dan Mancuso

        Reply to Chucklz and RP
        I must say I can’t find any argument for your use of fact and basic logic. Let’s not forget also that the Warren Commison is still the official version of how JFK was taken out and the ‘magic bullet’ theory!

  • don

    is’nt it amazing how since obunhole came in we’ve had these type of incident happening more often. racisism has gotten to be a lot bigger with him and holder running the show. they seem good at spreading hate to distract people from what is going on. racisim was brought into fast and furious. i think that we’ll see more. how do these dumb asses like obunhole, holder, reid, pelosi, kerry, gore, mayors against firearms think taking firearms away from everyone will help solve these problems. chicago, washington, dc, have gun control and crime numbers are huge. seems these dumbasses think gun control is a cure. the innocent will suffer. they’ll be made into sheep to be preyed on by criminals and future government. why not change penalties for people who use guns in crime. seems these d_ckheads seem to think that if you control 100%of the population you will solve these problems. there will always be the 1/25th of 1% who will actually commit crime. with guns the mexican crime element would be free to move in. mexico has gun control for its citizens and look at all of the innocent citizens dieing at the hands of the drug cartels. we’ become like that here. maybe that is what the elitists want for here too. citizens dying.

    • eddie47d

      ….or maybe because there is so little gun control within our nation that the psychos realized long time ago how easy it is to obtain their means of committing various acts of destruction.Its so easy even a cave man could do it! When opportunity knocks people take advantage of their desires. Put a free beer in front of a drunk and see what happens,put a line of cocaine in front of a druggie,put child porn on the Internet and watch the sleaze balls come out of the woodwork. That’s only a short list so add your own and nothing will stop bad behavior for some folks. Temptation is plentiful come one and come all!

      • JeffH

        eddie the parrot just repeated everything he knows…and a lot of what he hears from others.

        Obviously eddie knows nothing about gun laws and his analogies are well beyond normal…admit it eddie, you’re extremism can rival that of anyone.

      • eddie47d

        Is that like those on the right who say cars kills so shouldn’t we be banning cars analogy? Proving again that you are the trolling hypocrite.

      • JeffH

        Admit it eddie the repeating “PARROT”, your extremism can rival that of anyone. You must resort to incoherent thoughts and responses because you are incapable of rationally defending yourself.

      • eddie47d


      • phideaux

        “That’s only a short list so add your own and nothing will stop bad behavior for some folks.”

        And therein lies the problem with your solution of ever greater gun control laws that do nothing to solve the problem and only affect the law abiding citizen not the criminals. The criminals will find a way just as you say.

  • Norm

    National Socialism (common English short form Nazism, German: Nationalsozialismus) was the ideology of the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany. It is a variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism. Nazism used elements of the far-right racist Völkisch German nationalist movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary culture which fought against the communists in post-World War I Germany. It was designed to draw workers away from communism and into Völkisch nationalism. Major elements of Nazism have been described as far-right[weasel words], such as allowing domination of society by people deemed racially superior, while purging society of people declared inferior.
    The killer was a mentally ill neo-nazi skin head. Although he had swastikas and “Stars&Bars” flags waving, his mind was so twisted that he was beyond traditional politics, even the inter party hatred we sometimes see today.

    • Sirian

      LOL, it’s funny to see that you just love to repeat yourself. Copy & Paste – you’re so good at doing that. At least you added a bit more to the second one. Ya know, I have two parrots that are really good at it too. . . LOL!!

    • Rob

      I just had to leave a comment in reference to the Stars and Bars. The Confederate Battle Flag, more commonly known as the Rebel Flag, is not the Stars and Bars. I see this mistake entirely too often. The Stars and Bars was the first official flag of the CSA, which was replaced by the Stainless Banner, then the Third Confederate National, and then the Confederate Battle Flag. The Stars and Bars is what the “new” GA State Flag is fashioned after.

  • 45caliber

    I was talking with a woman at our church last Sunday and the theater shooting came up. She immediately stated, “We need to ban all the assault rifles in the US. That shooting wouldn’t have occurred if they were banned.”

    When I pointed out that assault weapons ARE banned and that he didn’t use one in the attack, she was astonished. “But the news said he was using one!” She was indignant when I told her what he was using and what the differences were. She had been under the impression because of the news media that he was using a machine gun.

    • eddie47d

      Any weapon that can kill multiple people very quickly is considered an assault weapon. It may not fit the official definition but does it make much difference when so many have become innocent victims and they serve the same purpose. Maybe it’s the definition that needs to be redefined since few see those differences.

      • Frank

        So by your definition all tube feed (22 round capacity) 22 rifles should be banned because it is possible to kill multiple people with them making them an assault weapon? Or, by that definition even a 10 shot clip 22 would be an assault weapon. WAIT, even a revolver is an assault weapon according to the magnificent Eddie. SO, LET IT BE KNOWN THAT THE ALL KNOWING AND BENEVOLENT EDDIE HAS DECREED THAT NO AMERICAN CAN OWN OR POSSESS ANY WEAPON EXCEPT SINGLE SHOT MODELS, PREFERABLY CAP AND BALL MUSKETS. Sorry about the all caps but really, Eddie makes my skin crawl with his childish whining drivel.

      • eddie47d

        Still not paying attention Frank. FRANKly I don’t give a dang what you think Frank so stop… your whining.

        • Frank

          I did not whine, you did. I just pointed out the fact that you make stupid suggestions on this subject. But then I sympathize with your intellectual trials and tribulations, it is not easy to be incapable of honest reasonable intelligent reasoning. You are to be pitied not hated.

      • 45caliber


        By definition, an “assault rifle” is a rifle designed to assault an enemy position in battle during a war. That narrows things down quite a bit. At no time was it ever identified as a weapon that can shoot several times very quickly.

        However, you probably agree with the government definition of an “assault weapon” – “any weapon used in battle anywhere in the world at any time.” Even rocks fit that definition.

      • 45caliber


        No, the cap and ball muskets can’t be considered safe since they were used in war (the American Revolution among others). At that time, they were the “assault rifles” eddie is agruing against.

        Actually, I think eddie should stay away from any topic on guns completely. It is obvious that he has no real idea of what guns are useful for nor does he have any idea of why people might want to buy and use one of them. But then – I think he is a prime candidate for “troll” as defined on “Disinformation: How It Works” – the first article listed for today.

    • modans55

      Yeah he was using an automatic weapon with a 100-shot mag….BIG difference from a machine gun. And, astonishingly, those people STILL died.

      • 45caliber


        If he had known anything about guns and accessories, he’d never have used that 100 shot drum. It jams. In fact, that’s why he discarded it. And it doesn’t make it an assault rifle anyway. The rifle he used was never used as such. It just sort of looks like one thanks to the movies.

      • 45caliber

        Oh, and it was NOT an “automatic” weapon at all. Sorry but true. Look it up.

  • Chester

    As far as confusing Sikh and Muslim, unless you KNOW the difference, there are a lot of similarities in appearance. Both are usually dark skinned, both usually wear turbans or head cloths of some sort, both groups talk funny. Only big difference is where a Muslim will often wear a flat cloth over his head, the Sikh will have a properly wound turban over a great mass of hair, and will have a full beard. So, while it doesn’t take a lot of study to tell them apart, if you are full of hate and ready to kill anyone who isn’t like you in the first place, that difference is NO difference at all.

    • independent thinker

      I never had any trouble telling them apart Chester. The differences are much more obvious than the similarities.

  • GI Joe

    Doesnt NAZI stand for National Socialist Workers Party? Would that make this guy a left-wing extremist?

    • Jimmy The Greek

      Don’t let the word Socialist in the name fool you lefty they are not ! check out the National Socialist movement web site , there members are not even permitted to smoke pot or do any kind of drugs , they must obey the law , they are pro-life then check out The National Alliance you well find the same rules and they have nothing to do with people that have been in i jail , these people are pro country anti-communist , what puts them on the chet list is they stand up for the white race .

      • Joseph

        I always thought that Fascism and Communism were opposing methodologies within the Socialism ideal and Federalism and Libertarianism were opposing methodologies within the Individualist ideal. Socialism is on the left with Totalitarianism at the extreme end is on the left while Individualism is on the right with Anarchy at the extreme end.

    • eddie47d

      G.I. Joe: Since Zimbabweans live in the REPUBLIC of Zimbabwe that must mean they are conservative Republicans. Hmmm!

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Rhodesia was a beautiful country at one time the same could be used for south Africa ,

    • Buster the Anatolian

      You are correct GI Joe. The only difference in the Nazi and the Communist is the allowing of private property under the Nazi. The government maintains total control over said private property in either system hence the socialism in the Nazi movement.

      • eddie47d

        There are many differences between the two but apparently you lost your train of thought and could only think of one.

      • JeffH

        eddie, this one’s for you.

        Hitler noted that Communists made excellent converts to Nazism, because the same personality type was attracted to both. “[T]here is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will.” (quoted in Hermann Rauschning, Hitler Speaks) Stalin also recognized that ex-Nazis and ex- fascists were natural recruits for post-war Communist regimes. As Stanley Payne notes in his A History of Fascism: 1914-1945, “All over Soviet- occupied eastern Europe, most rank-and-file former fascist party members, together with many lower-level leaders, were welcomed to fill the ranks of the initially exiguous local Communist parties. The psychological transition seems to have been an easy one, for obvious reasons.”

        Second, both the Nazis and the Communists dreamed of universal brotherhood – after widescale exterminations of groups potentially disruptive to their respective utopias. In addition to the former nobility and the bourgeoisie, the Communists also generally had an intense disgust for the peasantry – by far the largest social class in the early periods of most Communist regimes. All of these groups had to be either killed or at least have their traditional way of life destroyed. This attitude was present among the Bolsheviks from the earliest years of their regime. As Zinoviev, a high-ranking Bolshevik put it, “We must carry along with us 90 million out of the 100 million of Soviet Russia’s inhabitants. As for the rest, we have nothing to say to them. They must be annihilated.” Just as the Nazis imagined an idyllic Germany free of inferior races, the Communists dreamed of a harmonious world free of reactionary classes. Both planned to reach the uniformity necessary for their utopias by simply killing all of the square pegs.

        Further interesting evidence of the moral equivalence of the two movements comes during the period of 1939-1941, when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were in a state of virtual alliance. The Molotov-Rippentrop Pact was officially merely a non-aggression treaty, but its secret provisions divided up all of eastern Europe between Hitler and Stalin.

      • eddie47d

        Many countries have pacts of convenience to achieve their goals and so do we. We have treaties and economic pacts with several Middle Eastern countries but that doesn’t make us Muslim or agree with their philosophy. The Soviet – German alliance was a set up and they conned each other.

      • JeffH
    • mark

      GI Joe, the official name that the totalitarian communists of North Korea give to their nation is the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. Their state is neither democratic, a republic, nor ruled in anyway by the people. Why would you believe the laughable propaganda of totalitarians like the Communists or the Nazis? The Nazis gave their party its socialist and worker moniker in order to attract working class German voters. It was like all of their statements a bald-faced propaganda lie. Once in power the Nazis immediately stripped workers of their independent trade unions and changed their work day from 8 hours to 9 hours. During the war it went up to 12.

      Why do you unquestionably take the word of proven liars like the Nazi and North Korean totalitarians? The Nazis also claimed that they were rescuing Europe, do you believe that too?

  • uvuvuv

    fort hood, virginia tech, columbine, tuscon, aurora and now milwaukee, not necessarily in that order. then there was the gunman atop that tower in texas back in the 60s. back then, there were no calls for gun control, but now we have all these hand wringers who i suspect are quietly buying guns even as they denounce their availability. i’m going to make it easy for the un swat teams, i have guns. the russian sks, the model 94 30/30, the ww2 mauser and the moisin nagant probably have all been fired at various times in the past, but not by me, i just have them as a collector. just like i have an arvin radio from the 50s that i got on ebay. but they will kick in my door at 3 am to take them and arrest me. when everyone lines up to turn in their guns they won’t get paid for them, budget contingencies, you see. the govt is spending too much on food stamps for the crack welfare in places like tolerant and peaceful chicago.

    • 45caliber


      The real start of gun control, I think, in the US came about when someone pushed Congress to come up with a way to solve crime problems. If they actually came up with some sort of action that would do that, it would cost the government money. And they need that money to buy votes in the next election. Gun control really costs them little or nothing. “Turn in your guns or go to jail!” It is the citizens who must pay for that loss – not Congress. But too many people in politics saw that as a solution to not having to run for office, total control of the country, etc. “If we can get all the guns away from the citizens, we can do what we want!” In both cases, they aren’t concerned about the criminals. The criminals, by and large, leave them alone and they know it. And why should they care about the common people, one way or the other?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        As much as we think that gun control laws will be pushed on the populace right know, they won’t be because people are still resisting gun control in America
        But there is a future day and that is what gun control crowd is waiting for.
        But if the incidents of atrocious crimes where guns have been used will exponentially keep increasing, the populace will eventually cry out for something to be done and will willingly give up their guns for a bit of security. Think to what was written of occurring during the crime sprees of the Roaring Twenties.That is what gun control people are waiting for. Gun control groups are not concerned about the casualties sacrificed for their cause.

      • eddie47d

        As if the pro gun folks are concerned for the well being of the victims. Their distribution of weapons help to increase the number of casualties in these mass shooting scenarios.

  • M

    Why is this incident being labeled “domestic terrorism”, but they refused to call a blatant hate crime committed at Fort Hood that?

    • Oneguess

      What did you expect, with Obamao POTUS?


      And not one person has said anything about the Muslime at Fort Hood.

      • modans55

        Yea, the Fort Hood shooting NEVER made the news, did it?

  • chuckb

    m, the difference is the raghead who shot up our troops at fort hood is a muslim, like barry, they both belong to the problem.

    • eddie47d

      Aren’t we all self absorbed in bashing Obama? No wonder nothing gets solved. Yes the Fort Hood shooting was a hate crime as is the Oak Creek shooting and yes they are both domestic terrorists. The Muslim Brotherhood has racist views right along with these Aryan Nation groups such as Sovereign Nation. The Symbionese Liberation Army were a left wing terrorist group and the Minuteman Defense became a right wing terrorist group . All have shouted out that they were right and just in their cause when in reality they all belonged to the lunatic fringe.Different sides same old methods to achieve their goals.

      • Mike

        Really? Which one has spilled blood? And you think you can compare them all together. I feel sorry for you.

      • eddie47d

        All have advocated killing and I believe all have killed although I’m not sure about the Muslim Brotherhood. I guess you’ll have to look that up.

      • 45caliber


        I love how you continually try to twist things to try to make things more confusing. The Minuteman Defense is a terrorist group? Well, I suppose it is from your point of view since they don’t support Oblama. That was one of the marks of terrorists from the HS list, wasn’t it? But when was the last time they killed people here in an attempt to reform the government with them in control?

      • eddie47d

        Shawna Forde of M.D. killed 3 people in their home in an act to gain money for the M.D. including an old man and a 9 year old.

  • morgan

    Perhaps some clear definitions are in order.

    From Wiki- Conservatism (Latin: conservare, “to retain”) is a political and social philosophy that promotes retaining traditional institutions and supports, at most, minimal and gradual change in society.

    disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.
    cautiously moderate or purposefully low:

    con·ser·va·tive (kn-sûrv-tv)
    1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
    2. Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
    3. Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.
    a. Of or relating to the political philosophy of conservatism.
    b. Belonging to a conservative party, group, or movement.

    From conservapedia.
    a conservative typically adheres to principles of personal responsibility, moral values, and limited government.

    Taking that info to heart, NONE of the shooters adhere to conservative values.
    NO ONE who commits crime is conservative. And that would include the guys in suits who claim to be conservatives while ripping off their investors.

    Hopefully that will put an end to claiming the shooters were conservatives.

    Now let’s define the liberals.

    From wikipedia
    Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis)[1] is a broad political ideology or worldview founded on the ideas of liberty and equality.[2] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as capitalism (either regulated or not), constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights and the free exercise of religion.

    From dictionary reference
       [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA
    favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
    ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
    of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
    favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
    favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.

    From free dictionary
    lib·er·al (lbr-l, lbrl)
    a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
    b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
    c. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
    d. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.
    a. Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
    b. Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
    3. Not strict or literal; loose or approximate:

    According to that info the shooters can NOT be liberals either.

    SO, they are neither liberal nor conservative.

    We should now understand the shooters are wackos, out on the fringe who do not espouse the teachings of either right wing, left wing, middle wing, wing ding or ding dong.

    So knock off the blame game. You are starting to sound like four year olds arguing over who knocked over the castle in the sand box.

    • eddie47d

      Excellent and finally someone get it and tells the truth.

    • 45caliber


      I’ve always liked the following definitions of “conservative” and “liberal”:

      “conservative – someone who makes decisions based on learned experience (their own or history)”

      “liberal – someone who makes decisions based on a fantasy (utopia) of what the world should be – whether the decisions worked the last time tried or not”

  • E. Blake
  • FreedomFighter

    Another made to order shooting compliments of the evil empire that controls your American government — “now please hand over your guns so we can enslave you quickly and economically.”

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi


    My heary and prayers go out to every family member of all parties involved, but restrain your anger, keep your wit handy, because you’ll need it to discern wether this is a deception to drag eyes and ears away from other horrible events unfolding. Once again, my heart and prayers go out to those affected, which may be everyone. Just last eve, I read something more that intensified the chills I have. A man’s post stated that Legislation S-679 passed us under the radar. The name for it is “The Presidential Appointment Efficiency Streamlining Act,” which surrenders all Constitutional Checks and Balances, according to the post. It would allow the President to appoint members of the Senate, Judicial, etc, without first having approval, as the post stated. Apparently, it could be found somewhere at a partually given address of http://www.govtrack . Seems like more NDAA Legislation as post stated. The gentleman was pleading for ALL to contact their Representatives ASAP to oppose it and demand a reply as to why it was not carried by the media. This is apparently one of the MORE dangerous items that threaten us all. Read up on your pre-WWII and WWII history folks, and do it quick. If some has conflicting info/PROOF, please advise. GODSPEED


    Excuse the spelling please…

  • Liberterian

    It all appears to be a hunt for the perfect trigger that will set off massive gun control. We need to listen carefully to the media exagerations and lies and not to surrender to futher gun control which is unnecessary and useless as is the drug war for controlling anything and providing some few among society a way to get what they want. It’s all in controlling of our freedoms as soverign citizens of this nation. The existing gun control laws if enforced are sufficient if properly applied. No one likes tragedy but it happens in life, is it fate or someone’s contrived goal that is being fulfilled (government).



    • 45caliber

      I agree. Besides, if they enforced the existing laws, it would require money and manpower. But if they come up with a new law, it costs them only time and might attract a few more voters. Besides, if they ban guns, it doesn’t cost the government money – just the citizens. So who cares?


    The Sikhs are a peaceful people that are warriors of their own people. In fact, they oppose Islam and are against it. The shooter was obviosly another crazed lunatic.

    • Jimmy The Greek

      Right you are ! and good fighters to

    • JeffH

      AA, I believe you are correct. I grew up and spent 58 years in the small N California town of El Sobrante which also had a significant population of Sikh’s, businesses and a large and beautiful temple. Never any problems and they were well recieved and recognized in the community For the most part, like most cultures, they stayed pretty much to themselves.

  • Jimmy The Greek

    To every one My rig was in the shop since Friday , It well be finished this afternoon so i well have to get back to making money , I know youall well miss me ! LMAO

  • Neil Swan

    It sounds to me that this guy was religious right like the christian militia who wanted to kill a cop and bomb his funereral because the figured the government was anti Christ.
    The religious right in whatever country they are in are usually the terrorists.


    • Mike

      You are too deluded to take seriously.


      That’s a STRONG NEGATIVE, Swan Song.

      • Neil Swan

        Al Queda and taliban are religious right, so was the guy who blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City. So are the people who shoot abortion doctors
        The religious right try to push their religious concepts on people and they don’t seem to mind killing them.


    • Jimmy The Greek

      You are right on that ! The born again fundamentalist type ( i call them the crazy Christians ) would be running crazy like the muslims i the middle east if they could get away with it here in America , Stoning people for having sex without being married , smoking a little weed , ECT .

      • Nadzieja Batki

        What should you be called for spewing your nonsense?

  • Mike

    Out of all of the comments, who is using expletives? Yes, you Tamara. The liberal. We are not suprised. At least you are predictable.

  • modans55

    “We condemn the ‘Main Stream Media’ for their speculations surrounding these two shooters!
    Now, here is OUR specualtion.”

  • Lou

    Perhaps I am way off base on this one but, what if all this is part of a larger plan, people brainwashed or whatever to start trouble. Stir up the people with media coverage more about unrest and violence and Marshall law is put in place. Bingo no election and odumbo doesn’t need to worry about the November election. Especially if he feels he will lose by a landslide. Okay I’m a conspiracy theorist, but just think for a minute…….

    • SJJolly

      Lou: You want a conspiracy theory? Let’s see …. A secret lab is bio-engineering flying pigs, so that Ron Paul will win the Republican Party presidential nomination this year. (Good enough?)

  • Rik Little

    Wade Page, like Sirhan Sirhan and James Holmes was absolutely a CIA manchurian candidate for the New World Order to help Hillary Clinton and Obama push thru the UN Small Arms Treaty to effectively disarm America and the world. Expect even more bloody bazarre shootings with ever increasing frequency in the very near future. This is how those guys have always been working it.

    • mark

      Hey Riki, what about all the gun massacres that exploded from 1981-1993 and from 2001- 2009 when Conservatives were in control? Did Reagan and George W. Bush, both forthright supporters of citizen gun rights, engineer all the massacres back then? Face the facts, the mass slaugther of unarmed civilians by domestic gun nuts is part and parcel of American Life. These massacres occur over and over again regardless of who holds political power. They are part of our American culture, like constant overseas wars, constant overseas arms sales by “an America that seeks peace,” and the huge production and dissemination of pornography by this great, moral, Christian nation. We have met the enemy. And he is us.

  • mark

    What is most noteworthy about this article is that the author Rolley fails to express one single word of sympathy for the victims of this hateful and cowardly massacre of innocent, unarmed worshippers cut down in a house of faith. Rolley has absolutely zero to say about the mindless, horror these innocents experienced, something Sikhs are familiar with since they wear turbans and are often the victims of hate crimes from their fellow Americans. What a callous and indifferent analysis. Instead of decrying this atrocity, Rolley casts totally unsubstantiated aspersions that this crime is a false flag operation to impose government gun control. I am sure Mr. Rolley will apologize when this vicious and insensitive assertion is totally disproven in court.

    • eddie47d

      Only when pigs fly. LOL I think Jimmy the Greek left the building although earlier he said that the song Tomorrow Belongs To Me is a beautiful song. It’s a very pro Nazi song with the words “The Fatherland belongs to me and the world is mine”. Enough said!

      • JeffH

        You are such a PARROT…”Only when pigs fly.”?
        Polly want some more crackers? baaarrraaaccckkk!

      • Daveh234

        Jeff doesn’t seem to be adding anything to anyone comments. Yet he dislikes someone and continually belittles them.Sad about Jeff….he’s the loser….so sad…he’smore “Parrot” than anything else I’ve heard here.

      • JeffH

        Daveh234, you’re darn right. eddie spilled the first blood 3 years ago and I’ll point out every ignorant, irrelevant and incomprehensible comment he makes. I really don’t give a rats arse what you may or may not think and I don’t have to make things up, deny I ever said it and outright lie like he does. As they say in Poland, tough sh1t$ki.

      • eddie47d

        Jeff has become good about lying and telling others they are doing so. Its not cute anymore Jeffy boy!

      • JeffH

        eddie, yet it is you who is the proven liar here and you have never, not once, proven that I have lied, ever. Also, although you will deny it, I’m not the only one that has shown the proof either.

      • JeffH

        eddie goes on to say “Its not cute anymore Jeffy boy!”

        Sure you don’t think it’s cute. In your case the truth isn’t pretty is it?

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  • http://yahoo Randy C

    My question about this shooting? Why has our POTUS declared that the flag be flown at half staff a day for every victim killed @ temple? Now I don’t mind this, but I have to wonder why the CO theater victims did not get this same respect? Is it possibly because the WI victims were non-christian???

    • chuckb

      barry gets confused easily, he probably thought they were muslims. the people in co. were mostly white, that’s why they didn’t receive the honor.

  • http://yahoo Randy C

    I meant half mast

  • Bimbam

    You have to protect your family, your ownself. The government won’t do it for you. Evidence? Where was the police, the Army, government security???

    Yet was does the goverment want to do??? Take away the only means of defending yourself, — the gun! They want to ban guns.

    So, you have liberal hypocrisy again. Which proves liberals are insane, very insane. That is why throughout history they have brought terrific human suffering and misery.

    Who do you trust? The insane liberal or YOU?

    • Daveh234

      Bimbam, you are way off base it sounds.
      Nobody is trying to take all your guns.
      It is the conspiracy and fear factor being pushed to te front by NRA types.
      A little restraint on calling all liberals insane. A few might be like the extremists on the right.
      That isn’t the way things are.

      • Bimbam

        Criminals don’t obey any laws. Hence, any gun control laws only hampers law-abiding citizens in defending themselves against all ememies, either foreign or domestic.

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    It seems so ludicrous that whenever there is a mass shooting incident, Michael (still our mayor in violation of our NYC term limits) Bloomberg, et al will whine about the lack of gun control, never mind the fact that these anti- 2nd Amendment laws have been tried and failed for nearly 50 years. We always reply that such laws don’t work because criminals do not obey them any more than they will obey laws against assault, homicide, etc. Yet they complain we are doing nothing to keep guns out of the wrong hands. Well, let’s add to that and tell all the Bloomturds, along with other wishful thinkers who absurdly believe we can legislate guns out of the hands of criminals ….. that we want to do something ….. that is – we want to put MORE guns in the RIGHT hands – those of the good guys!! YES!! That is what Kennesaw GA did some 25 years ago, and its crime rate fell over 50%. So I say YES, all you Bloomturds and others. We’ve tried your ideas, and they’ve failed. When criminals and lunatics are outnumbered by good (armed) citizens, then we’ll see real crime control!!

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  • Watchman


  • Dennis

    (The purpose of PSYOP is to induce or reinforce foreign attitudes and behavior favorable to U.S. national objectives. PSYOP are characteristically delivered as information for effect, used during peacetime and conflict, to inform and influence. When properly employed, PSYOP can save lives of friendly and adversary forces by reducing the adversaries’ will to fight. By lowering adversary morale and reducing their efficiency, PSYOP can also discourage aggressive actions and create dissidence and disaffection within their ranks, ultimately inducing surrender. PSYOP provide a commander the means to employ a nonlethal capability across the range of military operations from peace through conflict to war and during postconflict operations)….That says it all.You think these people arent working in this country right now? You think our military isnt working in america? Are you that ignorant or naive? Saying this man was never deployed and so his military training means nothing shows how much of a moron you are.Especially being part of the armies psyops program that do just these kinds of operations.All these recent shootings are making no sense at all and as they drag on more and more things are not jiving.People need to wake up.

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