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Senate Votes Against Additional Wall On U.S.-Mexico Border

October 30, 2009 by  

Senate votes against additional wall on U.S.-Mexico border The U.S. Senate overwhelmingly approved the Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Act of 2010 after it had been stripped of the provision to build an additional 700 miles of reinforced fencing along the southern border.

The idea had been championed by Republican Senator Jim DeMint of South Carolina who voted against the bill and criticized those who helped defeat his amendment.

"We’re learning there’s almost nothing politicians won’t do to get out of promises they make in the daylight," he said, quoted by GovernmentExecutive.com.

However, Senate Homeland Security Appropriations Subcommittee chairman Robert Byrd, a West Virginia Democrat, had argued before the vote that the wall was "too proscriptive and too costly," and that the bill included funds to build a virtual fence along the border and to hire more Border Patrol officers, according to the news source.

Environmental and community organizations have also praised the vote. Sierra Club representative in Washington Michael Degnan commented that border walls have not been proven to stem illegal immigration, but they have a devastating impact on communities, families and the wildlife in the region.

Among other controversial elements in the $42.8 billion bill are the provisions that allow prisoners from the Guantanamo Bay detention center to be transferred to the U.S. mainland for trial.
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  • VIRGO

    That’s just dandy, ain’t it????
    Even OUR senators are letting this garbage administration have it’s way with OUR citizens and OUR country!! I hope you idiots are happy, now that you joined with the garbage libtards!!
    AND, they’re letting the garbage Gitmo prisoners on OUR soil for trials?? NOT one of them should EVER be released for any reason!!!!
    WHY AREN’T THEY LISTENING TO US????

    • American Citizen

      Not only don’t they care we’re being overrun by those illegals, they want to bring terrorists into this country. VOTE OUT EVERY ONE THAT APPROVES THIS BILL!!

    • JeffH

      They are nothing more than traitorus scum. Get ready to learn a second language. These elected maggots have to be removed from office before our great nation reaches the bowells of poverty.

      • denniso

        Dearest jeffH,
        can’t you please try harder,though I know it’s difficult for you, to do more than just call people names..it doesn’t bother me,because you’re saying absolutely NOTHING when all you do is utter smears and near profanities. But for you and your comrades sakes you might actually accomplish something near literate that won’t have others laughing at you. Try it, you might enjoy it and learn something, like thinking!!

        • JeffH

          denniso, shut your pie hole! TROLL!

          • denniso

            JeffH..More name calling..come on, I know you can do better than that.We’ve gone through this already..you aren’t helping your case,whatever it is.

          • JeffH

            bite me TROLL!

      • http://Yahoo Dee D

        JeffH – May I recommend Chinese as the 2nd language? Since the Cheney Administration borrowed so much from China they already own the bigger % of America.

        • Wayne Keel – V Vet

          Clinton made China “Most Favored Nation” and that is where all the junk started coming from. Remember when the Clinton admin let the Chinese have all the Military secrets and nothing was ever done about it?

          • http://Yahoo Dee D

            Wayne give me some posts to check out. I’ve often wondered why Hillary made so many trips to China.
            NAFA was signed under Clinton’s tenure but it originally Bush Sr’s baby.
            Since Bush Sr could not get it passed it fell to Clinton to complete.

          • JeffH

            DeeD, try doing your own research instead of expecting others to do it for you. Sometimes a libby leftist like yourself has to do earn it instead of expecting others to provide it.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dee, Nafta, was originally The North American Accord, which was Presidents Regans, baby, he ran out of time, so then Bush tried to get it passed, ran out of time, so the Republicans in the Clinton Congress, finally passed it.

          • DaveH

            I must admit that NAFTA is an oxymoron. Government commissions set up to regulate ‘free trade’.

          • Joe H.

            Dee D
            I’m sure it was Bush Sr’s idea to give the missile tech information to China and Clinton thought it was such a good Idea that he carried through on it.Get real!!!

        • eyeswideopen

          Dee, Sheldon Adelson, the Republican equal of George Soros, has been making investments for China, and actually lobbying on their behalf. You might be right on the language. He may have already purchased America for them.

        • Joe H.

          Dee,
          You’re right, but O-man has done just as much borrowing as Bush in less than one year!!!! He has cut salaries at the auto manufacturing plants by as much as 90% in some cases. Really sounds like capitalism at its best doesn’t it?

          • denniso

            joe H..
            If we hadn’t dumped billions into the banks and car co’s to stabilize the economy that WAS spiraling down in free fall, you would’t have the electricity to be typing your myths…we would be struggling to survive a real depression. Then you would scream for impeachment because Obama hadn’t done enough…you will complain about everything he does for the next 7 yrs even if the economy is humming along.
            The only salaries that are cut anywhere near 90% are the ceo’s..are you worried about them? The actual workers made some salary concessions,but pretty minimal.

          • DaveH

            Yep, more government is what we need:
            http://blog.mises.org/archives/010239.asp

          • DaveH

            From a real american:
            http://gunowners.org/sowell.htm

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO… You might want to educate yourself about economics before you start goose-stepping to Obama’ Union-payback and redistribution of wealth.
            Any economist that doesn’t goose-step along with you would tell you that however painful those companies going bankrupt would have been, it is the only way to raise from the ashes stronger. It is a well know fact (at least by those that don’t run from the facts…read LIBs) that Government intervention, like what Obama is engaging in and Bush started, will cause the recession to recover more slowly. It happened with FDR and it happening again with Obama. You can’t destroy the free-market fundamental of risk & reward and expect people to engage in the system with the same fervor.

            You obviously have no understanding of Capitalism, or are of the belief that the Government knows better and socialism is good. Either way you need to atleast try to understand the “unintended consequences” of LIBERAL policy…It is harmful to the people, not helpful!

          • denniso

            R the O,
            The vast majority of economists AROUND THE WORLD agree that stimulus palns and some bailouts were and are necessary..the entire world that was caught up in the collapse is doing the same things as Bush/Obama to stabilize and recover the economy. In your mind,I guess the whole world is going socialist and following Obama because he’s superman, and no other country can resist his power.
            Your capitalist ‘ferver’ is part of why we’re in this mess.Turn off limbaugh the drug peddler and G Beck..open your ears and mind.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO….Back up your claim with FACT! Show me where other countries are recovering through bailouts! I want hard facts that can be proved.

          • DaveH

            Sure, our capitalist fervor caused the bust. Do some reading Denniso. Read Thomoas Sowell’s “The Housing Boom and Bust” or at least read this:
            http://reason.org/news/show/1008596.html

          • Rod the Other

            That’s a great book

            AND by the way DENNISO…Thomas Sowell is a black man…Is he racist against Obama too?

          • Joe H.

            denniso,
            “if we hadn’t dumped billions….” Yeah that’swhy Ford just posted a profit of a billion dollars for the quarter and they didn’t take a single government dollar!!!!

        • Warrant

          Dee D,

          One of the reasons that China would buy US Debt is because they carried a huge trade deficit with for decades. One of the ways the trade deficit could be ballanced out was have China buy our debt in the form of treasury notes. Every body wins (China ballances our ‘trade deficit’ with US, and the US continues to import cheap products for Walmart, and can borrow more money for social programs). Well, the US is now barrowing money in a manner you would never do at home. In fact if you go to ( http://www.usdebtclock.org/ ) you will see a bebt vs. income (Gross Domestic Product [GDP]) that defies reason. And this is before Health Care Reform and the Carbon Tax. The border fense is a basic law and order issue, and sovereignty issue. The Amercian people told their representatives and senators to protect our borders against illegals and terrorist. That program was passed and paid for. Now the fence has come to a halt, with the presidents blessing, and more undocumenteds are comming accros. Cui Bono (who benefits)? Not the American people who do not have enough jobs to go around right now, and with the economic drain taking care of these folks places on the system. Liberal policy shows they line up with citizenry slanted to the ‘international citizen’ persuasion. Conservatives are trying to maintain a democratic republic that at least resembles what our founding fathers intended, and the rest of the world has been trying to emulate for over 100 years. I guess we have been too successful and become too complacent. It’s time for the historicle societal down swing to ballance it all out again.

          Regards,
          Warrant

        • Steve

          The “Cheney Administration”?
          Obama voted FOR every related bill as a representative, and then”sold us down the river” to the tune of $1.5mil in interest DAILY to the Chinese!! (who, for all financial intent and purpose, now OWN us)

          Look for a fully Rep or Ind House and Senate next year!

          If there’s achance in the world of undoing all of this great “change” we must do it before we’re pressing 2 (or even 3) for English!!

      • http://stenn150@mindspring.com H.O.Tennant

        Amen, Amen and Amen !!!

        • Joe H.

          Denniso,
          Name one myth I typed!!! He did it and that is the truth! I don’t care who the person is that got their salary cut. It is not constitutional for the president to do it to a private company!!! Especially months after the deal was made. To add terms to the agreement after the deal is made is not legal by any means. Try it yourself and see what happens!

          • Warrant

            Joe H.,

            This administration does not seem to care what the law is. Lip service has been paid to Ethics and off they go, in standard Chicago Polotics fasion. If you dissagree with the administrations agenda, they just come after you with threats and intimidation. come to think of it, this sounds a lot like organized labor tactics . . . lets see, Chicago politics and organized labor . . . look at the last 10 minths . . . who go bailed out . . . who’s receiving all the benefits . . . and Who Is Paying For It? After the Free Enterprise System is gone (and the Profit in business is what pays for all of this) dries up, we are toast. Every policy from the administration is anti business. With Small Business being the largest affected portion of the econmy, that will not recover in this economic environment, we find ourselves in a world of hurt. The debt is already way too big (http://www.usdebtclock.org/ ), and that’s not a loaded number. The money supply has grown 120% since January. It takes 24 months for the inflationary trends to take affect. What happens to fixed income folks (read social security on medicare with the proposed medicare cuts comming) when the inevitable inflation hits. Ladies and gentlement, the earth quake has already happened! The TSUNAMI (massive inflation) is coming. it is unavoidable!! Wake up and start putting someone in office that has: a) owned a business , met a payroll, paid business taxes, and understands economics, b) dont let them serve for more than two terms! c) listens to you on a regular basis. That is the only way a Representative based Democratic Republic can function. Otherwise, you have a ruling class, and they only look after themselves in the end.

            Regards,
            Warrant

      • the hermit

        JEFFH I LIKE THAT LOCK AND LOAD . IF US GRINGOS WAIT MUCH LONGER THIS ANTI-WHITE PRES. WILL TAX ARMS AND AMMO OUT OF SITE. Sentence removed for offensive content.

  • Jim McCrary

    Please publish a list of Senators voting for this bill. That list should be passed around so that they can be voted out of office.

    Enough is definitely enough!!!

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston
      • Bob Dale

        At 1:22PM EDST The link for how senate voted on border fence is not working. Can you repair?

      • denniso

        If the wall/fence doesn’t work, shouldn’t you be pleased that the senate killed more of it? Smugglers go over,through and under it..IT DOESN’T STOP SMUGGLERS ! So be fiscally responsible and put the $$ where it might work.

        • Joe H.

          denniso,
          It doesn’t work because the officials don’t have the intestinal fortitude to enforce the laws on the books!! The border patrol arrest and Napolitano orders their release before they even go to court. Then you have the “sanctuary” cities like L.A. and even a little town in Ohio named Painesville! If they know the laws aren’t going to be enforced when they get here, then why stop coming? I want to see a law that specifically states “ILLEGALS NEED NOT APPLY!!!!” Fine EVERY employer handsomely for EACH and EVERY illegal they hire! If the jobs dry up then they will ctop and self deport!! I have nothing against ANY legal immigrant who comes here but the illegals need to go!!!

          • Rod the Other

            ILLEGAL ALIENS are parasites….They introduce disease, they suck up social services, they supress our wages, they clog our highway, they make our streets less safe, THEY CONTRIBUTED IN LARGE PART TO THE HOUSING FORECLOSER MESS, they dumb-down our schools, they increase the crime rate, and the mexican illegals beleive that this is there land and won’t to breed us out.
            Our Constitution explicitly states that any person who claims allegance to a foriegn flag and is standing on American soil is in HOSTILE OCCUPATION of that soil and needs to be removed as an enemy to our Union.

          • eyeswideopen

            Rod, how did they contribute to the foreclosure mess?

          • Rod the Other

            EYES…Because they could not provide documentation to substantiate there income, they were one of the largest groups to partake in “NO Document” loans.

            Typical with these loans they give what is called a “stated income”. With that the laborer that is standing outside homedepot whom might make $10,000 to $40,000 per year could state his income to be whatever he wants. Or that 40 years old woman that is taking your order at McDonalds (instead of the 18 to 20 year old that used to have that job) and making minimum wage can say she makes $200,000 a year. When this is combined with the 80/20 interest-only loan that was typical for these credit-unworthy people. They were able to get into a $500,000 house or better. (incase you don’t know what an 80/20 loan is, this economic wiz-kid will fill you in. It is where you borrow 80% of the homes value on a first mortgage, and then back that up with a 20% second loan for your downpayment. In short, it is a 100% mortgaged home over 2 loans. The buyer has no skin in the game and can walk away at anytime with only a damaged credit score and having had cheap housing. But who cares about a bad credit score when it’s not even your social security number you used).

          • Rod the Other

            In my above post I left out another VERY important thing that ILLEGAL ALIENS do for us.
            Without them there wouldn’t be an entire under-class of people to steal our identities and completely screwup the lives of countless Americans.

          • denniso

            R the O…I’ve seen and read real claptrap before, but you must be literally stufing the whole cake down your mouth in one piece. Give me a freaking break!!’Illegals are parasites and spread disease’. Wow, right out of the Goebbels and Goering manual..scapegoat and demonize your ‘enemy’. Illegals living in $500,000 houses?idiotic and laughable!! Maybe one or two big drug dealers…and they could pay for it anyway. Most illegals scrape by and probably work harder than you do, and pay taxes on everything they buy here. ‘Contributed to the housing collapse’?? Again, WOW!! I have to say it..you aren’t just any old moron/probable racist, you’re a total moron who relishes spreading lies and hate..like I said before, turn off limbaugh who you clearly love like a god.

          • Rod the Other

            COMRADE DENNISO….your octal-rectal-linearity knows no end.

            whooping cough was all but erradicated in the US and is seeing massive resurgence in the last 10 years that is easliy corrulated to the rise in illegal immigration.
            Tuberculosis, hepatitis, dengue fever, chagas, and even leprosy are being imported into the U.S. inside the bodies of illegal aliens. Due to the unchecked influx of illegal immigrants border states are seeing a sharp rise in all of these diseases…much more so than NON-border states.

            In California a $500,000 house would be considered the cheap side of town for them. It is easy to coble together a $2,500 to $3,500 mortgage payment for a 5 bedroom house, when it is a “clown-house” and each one of the rooms is rented by a family of 4. They have trouble keeping the payments up though because the house also tends to be a way-stations for the migrant inhabitants! And when they can’t pay their rent they just leave the home-owner stiff and make no payment. I was buying house last year and 7 out of 10 that I looked were in forecloser and had multiple beds per room and very few if anyone in the house spoke English.

            Hide from the truth if you want DENNISO, it’s a fact and I saw it. My girlfriend who also happens to be Hispanic might disagree with your assement of me being a racist. She finds the Illegals even more protestable than I do, because of the way they are denograding her cultural history.

            The reason they work harder than me, if they do, would be because they are ignorant, uneducated and the only work you can get when your that way is Manuel labor. And you have no idea how hard I’ve worked for what I’ve got, no hand outs, and no affirmative action!

            Keep talking your smack and the personal attacks DENNISO…it is the last refuge of the ignorant when they are losing the discussion.

  • http://keyboardkombatant.blogspot.com/ rachel

    I hope you voters are happy…we now have NO representation at all. No one who stands up for the will of the American people, who made it abundantly clear that we want our borders closed and protected, AS IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF CONGRESS, and as they passed a bill to do so. What an absolute bunch of (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT). VOTE THEM ALL OUT OF OFFICE.

    • denniso

      Rachel,
      you’re not supposed to curse on here…Think about it, no large country in this day and age can hide behind a wall..it simply doesn’t work, so we have spent billions and could spend billions more and still not be totally ‘protected’. Your greatest danger is getting in your car every day and putting your life in the hands of other drivers. Since 9/11, which killed just under 3000 people, we have slaughtered roughly 400,000 men,women and children in car crashes,and maimed another several million..where’s your anger and outrage for that?

      • Rod the Other

        DENNISO…Try telling the whole truth. It is a matter of public record that approximately 10,000 US citizens die every YEAR at the hands of ILLEGAL ALIENS. A little over 4,000 per year are the result of drunk-illegal-drivers, and a little under 4,000 per year die as a result of VIOLENT CRIME!

        TAKE A LOOK AT THE BOLOGNAS FAMILY STORY:
        http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/26/MNH411F12H.DTL

        The Bolognas were on Congdon Street in the Excelsior just after 3 p.m. Sunday, driving home from a barbecue in Fairfield, when they inadvertently blocked another car from completing a left turn onto Congdon from Maynard Street, police said.

        The shooting occurred after the elder Bologna backed up and let the car by, police said.

        Tony Bologna, the night shift supervisor at a San Mateo grocery store, and Michael Bologna, a student at the College of San Mateo, were pronounced dead at the scene. Matthew Bologna, who attended Lincoln High School, died Tuesday night at San Francisco General Hospital.

        Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/26/MNH411F12H.DTL#ixzz0VlQY7xN4

        • denniso

          WRONGROD..there are fewer than 20,000 deaths from drunk driving in total..you’re telling us that 25% of those are due to illegals?? don’t think so, since they only make up roughly 5% of the total population. You’re faking #’s again or getting bogus ones from your flaky sites.

          • Rod the Other

            …That’s some good math skills you’ve demonstrated, did your indeterminate structions course helpout?

            4,000 out of 20,0000 would be 20% not 25%…and the Illegal population is estimated to be as high as 30,000,000. It’s kind of hard to count those slimey litte bast-a-jiz

          • denniso

            Oh boy, Rod…I said fewer than 20,000,it’s probably closer to 15,000, so roughly 25%..the estimates for illegals range from 10 to 20 million..so my point stands.don’t exaggerate for the sake of your specious argument.
            So I mispelled ‘structures’, you still don’t know what the course is anyway. If you’re concerned w/ my spelling,you’d better look back at yours. I’ve restrained myself dozzens of times from mocking your grammar and spelling.

          • Rod the Other

            “Fewer that 20,000″? 15,000 is a LOT LESS than fewer…It 25% fewer….nice rounding off of the number…Obama’ doing the same then when it comes to talking about how his socialized medicine is paid for.

            We all make spelling mistakes in our haste to post and move on, but mis-spelling a college course you took…quite suspicious.

            Credible souce range from 12mil to 30mil…Don’t try and tell me you can put a finwe point on a group of people that “hide in the shadows”. These estimates come from the amount of social services they consume and NEVER pay for.

            Go ahead and mock if you wish…it hasn’t stopped you before…There are no issues with my grammar, and the spelling is merely haste…You apparently got the point. At least my posts are written by me, I am sure most of yours are just “cut&Paste” from moveon.org, or your previous posts on other sites.

          • denniso

            OK Rod..take your estimate of 12 to 30 million..split the difference and use 21 million for illegals. The U.S. has about 310 million people..that means that illegals make up ‘about’ 6.774% of the U.S. population. You stated that illegals kill 4000 Americans/yr..there are ‘about’ 15 to 20,000 drunk driving deaths/yr(many of those are of course the drunk driver himself,not only his victims).Let’s use 20,000 anyway. So your 4,000 dead is 20% of the total.

            You’re trying to have people believe that 6.7% of the population is responsible for 20% of the dead from drunk driving?? If we use my numbers instead it’s 4.839% of the population responsible for 20 to 25% of the deaths. Give it up R. You’re twisting the facts to suit your argument to demonize PEOPLE.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…Your assertion that because illegals ONLY make up anywhere from 6% to 10% of the US population (A sad statistic in and of itself!) they can’t be responsible for 20% to 25% of the deaths caused in drunk driving cause is moronic on it’s face! A real leap of logic. I suppose you believe that the illegals are obeying our drinking and driving laws!? Being that they have demonstrated their disregard for our laws already, by what reasoning would you come to the conclusion that they are obeying this one?

            Here’s a link for you…Can’t wait to hear your refutation:
            http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103

          • the hermit

            denniso i knew it , you sounded like a bleeding heart gringo. or a mex.a vote against the left side of this nation is a vote for the white race

          • the hermit

            DENNISO– WHAT IS IT WITH YOU BLEEDING HEART GRINGOS? WHY ARE LEFTYS SO TAKEN WITH THESE word removed. ARE YOU ANOTHER ONE THAT DONT KNOW WHAT ILLEGAL MEANS?I LIVE IN THE SANCTUARY STATE OF WASHINGTON ON THE EAST SIDE. THE TRI-CITY HEARLD SOUNDS JUST LIKE YOU. ALL OF THE PRO-AMNESTY LETTERS GETS PRINTED AND ALL THE ANTI- AMNESTY ILLEGAL MEXCAN LETTERS GET CENSURED. IS IT WHEN MEXICO TAKES COMPLETE CONTROL OF THIS NATION AND SEND THE WHITE AMERICANS TO THE OVENS IN SAN CARLOS OR CHIHUAHUA OR OAXACA THEN YOU LEFT SIDED DEMOCRATS WILL GET AN EXTRA HELPING OF TORTILLAS AND BEANS? WHEN THE MEXCANS GET THREW WITH YOU THEN ITS YOUR TURN FOR THE OVENS. DONT LAUGH REMEMBER YOUR HISTORY OF THE 1930S AND 40S IN NAZI GERMANY. AND IT CAN HAPPEN HERE.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNSIO….This ones for you:

            First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
            Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist;
            Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
            Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
            Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

  • Norm

    What we have in Congress is a bunch of spineless eunuchs who are afraid they might hurt the feelings of people breaking our laws and to hell with what we as Americans think. I think that the they will soon learn that The Chickens Have Come Home To Roost!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Thank you Norm, and unfortunately, the last republican congress didnt do very well with this either. I do not for the life of me, understand why, democrats or republicans, do not make a stand on this illegal immigration thing and put their stinking foot down. It would be wildly popular with the American voter base, and that minority vote is not that big compared to the size of the american base.

      • eyeswideopen

        Beberoni, somehow money must be involved. Follow the money trail, and you will find the reason. I suspect it is the re-election coming soon. They are all afraid of the minorities, what they don’t get, is that the legal ones don’t want the illegal ones here either. What a mess. We need to vote out everyone, regardless of party affiliation.

        • http://Yahoo Dee D

          One great big AMEN eyes. We do not really need term limits – if enough voters would do their home work and vote accordingly we can eliminate the scum bags from office. But first everyone must put party line loyalty in the round file and go for the best candidate. If we are wrong then correct it the next time around.

        • denniso

          Immigration,legal and illegal has been a fact along the border w/ Mexico for decades. Corporate farmers and slaughter houses and Repubs who wanted to keep wages down were all in favor of it,and it was never really a problem until fairly recently. As the economy in Mexico weakened and drugs became more of a a smuggled product, things got worse…then 9/11 convinced people that terrorists might come across the border. Now Mexico is involved in a real drug war w/ thousands dead and more of the people want to flee to the U.S. It’s a human tragedy and not right to place all the blame on the individual crossers. All that most of them are doing is looking for a better life for their kids. The drug smuggling aspect of the problem is fueled by whom?? American users.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…Don’t tell me whom to blame. I blame the ILLEGALS for stealing the AMERCIAN dream away from true AMERICAN patriots, I blame the Democrats for wanting them here to increase their voting base, I blame the Repubs for seeking illegal cheap labor as a means to battle the extortionist Unions, and I blame peole like you for excuing it.

            They aren’t innocent little victims, they bring their corruption here and seek to take from this nation and send it home to their nation. They are not contributors to our society…THEY ARE PARASITES feeding on a host. As far a Mexican illegals, Mexico actively sends them here as a means of bolstering their welfare program. Welfare payments to Mexican citizens represent their second largest contribution to their GDP.

            I say we put our military on the border and shoot onsite. Or, at least adopt immigration policies no less harsh than MEXICO’ policies. Which happen to be some of the HARSHED OF ANY!

          • JeffH

            Rod the Other, LOCK N LOAD!

          • Rod the Other

            JEFFH…Some of the rhetoric in this post reminds me of talking to some of the LA, Ca. public school teachers I know. They are such devoted lefty-socialist and it is mind-blowing how echo-chamber this all is.
            I want to keep going tonight, but I’ve got a woman to be with. I am blown away by some of these posts….Particulary Deinnso, WHAT A NUT!

      • eyeswideopen

        Beber, President Bush did try to get immigration reformed, but the Congress didn’t want to upset the apple cart.

        • Joe H.

          Eyes,
          Bush only tried to reform the immigration laws to let more in and give amnesty to the ones already here. At a time of high unemployment here in the U.S. it is deplorable that we have 12 to 20 million illegals here competing for the few jobs there are! We can’t employ all the American people let alone that many illegals. SEND THEM HOME!!!!

          • Rod the Other

            JOE H. We don’t need to send them home. If we just cutoff what they are here for, there will be no reason for those here to stay, or those not here to come.
            STOP THEIR SCHOOLING, MEDICAL SERVICES, WELFARE PAYMENTS, FINE THEM FOR SUSPECT DAYS OF EMPLOYMENT (MAYBE $500 PER DAY?)…Maybe we should confiscate their land just like Mexico did to US citizens about 10 years ago.

      • Joe H.

        Beberoni
        the reason is we haven’t HAD a Republican party for a few decades. They are ALL RINOs. They wouldn’t know how to read the constitution, much less defend it! We need the Repubs to get back to their conservative roots!!!

    • Norm

      Norm
      Please don’t use the name “Norm”, I’ve been using it for quite a while and and you and I don’t seem to have too much in common.

  • Barbara

    I WANT MY SECURITY! ! ! ! !
    I want that wall built. Instead of having socialized medicine shoved down my throat with never ending billions and trillions being spent on something will kill me, build that wall. We know the expense of building the wall will end when the wall is built.
    I want the wall built but I can not have it. It costs to much!?!?!?
    I do not want the socialized death program. But one person says I have no say so.
    What happened to my safety and freedom?

    • http://Yahoo Dee D

      Barbara – How many times have you seen the commercials by the pharmaceuticals for whatever ails and then run out and buy it?
      Think – that’s your security.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Of course they are going to vote against. Just why in the world would these democrats want their future voter base not to be able to get into the country?

    • denniso

      Repubs voted to stop the fence too..do they want votes from the illegals as well??
      Your anger is misdirected entirely. You never complain about corporate America when it’s actually they who are controling most things. They, with the help of the corporate party, Repubs, have convinced you that the gov’t is the enemy so that you’ll do the dirty work of keeping the gov’t off their backs, not off yours!!
      YOU ALL NEED TO REALLY WAKE UP and quit following each other like blind sheep that snarl as they sleep.

      • JeffH

        denniso, is that all you can do is blame the Republicans? You, eyes or BillyJ, Norm are all from the same mold. To you and your ilk, yes I meant ilk, it is nothing more than Republican vs Democrat and who won or lost. The mentality of a schoolyard child playing marbles. It is never about right and wrong!

      • Joe H.

        See my post above!!!

        • eyeswideopen

          Joe, I agree, that’s why I am so upset with them, I can’t understand any of the bills they passed during Bush admin. A medicare bill to the tune of 1.1 trillion unfunded? unbelievable! Certainly not the way Repubs are supposed to function.

      • DaveH
        • DaveH
        • DaveH
        • DaveH
        • DaveH
          • Rod the Other

            DaveH..The only MAJOR flaw I see in your discussion with the punch-drinkers is that you are using facts. The only way you can get through to them is to start you statment of with some wild-unsubstantiated-emotional claim. Then once the class-warfare is at a sufficient level you throw out there that the only reason they have to work for a living is because it is all an evil plot set in motion by Ronald Reagan and that he is the reason that all the pets they had as a child died…once you do this, you’ve proven yourself to be a level-headed reasoned-thinker that just wants to stick-it to the man, which is what he deserves.

            COME ON LEFTIES…Give up on the Octal-rectal-linearity! A little bit of simple research will SHOW YOU that there are FAR MORE rich politicians in the Dem party than in ANY other party combined.
            You may ask yourself why Barney Frank, A CAREER POLITICIAN THAT HASN’T WORKED A DAY IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, is worth millions?

        • eyeswideopen

          Dittoheads believe Rush.

          • DaveH

            Harpy.

          • Rod the Other

            EYES…Name 3 things that Rush is/was wrong on. Not with opinion, but FACT…yeah I know I used a 4-letter word (FACT…I did it again).

            He’s been a public voice for over 35 years…3 things should be easy to find!

          • Rod the Other

            EYES…I’m still waiting….

          • denniso

            Rod T O, limbaugh is utterly wrong on just about EVERYTHING!!He’s a blatant liar,demagogue and hatemonger..spreading lies and fear among people like you guys/dolls for solely his own benefit, $$. No one w/a modicum of intelligence gives him any credibility at all!!Your biggest problem is having your brain turned to mush by listening to him and Beck…you’ll NEVER be able to actually think if you don’t listen to people w/o an obvious bias and bigotry.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO… If he is as wrong as often as you claim, why isn’t the MSM (which is admittedly 80% liberal) all over him and pointing out his errors? Why have you offered no proof. Instead you choose to demonize, slander, and interject your opinion as a supposed SUPERIOR MIND. Once again you spew your EXTREME LEFTY VITRIOL and claim to be the tolerant, fair-minded, open debater…You are none of the positive things you proclaim yourself to be! Rush has the large audience he has because he is thought provoking and accurate in his COMMENTARY…That’s probably a foreign concept to you, as you prefer to propagate class-warfare and socialist propaganda.

            I have to ask…What would you sugggest for listening to too become informed?…Olberman, Maddow, Mathews, Blitzer, Couric, Copper…Oh I know how about DAN RATHER, there’s a paragon of virtue.

        • denniso

          DaveH, Everyone knows that the Repub party almost exclusively represents the big biz class. It’s true that they have convinced many regular people to join up, thinking they are on their side. It’s one of the great American myths, that the modern Repub party represents working people. Why is it almost totally Dems that talk of decent wages for workers, that real,working people might be able to actually live on?

          • DaveH

            Wages are the business of only 2 entities – the owners of the companies and the potential employees – a voluntary agreement. Of course the government leaders want to get involved in the wage business. It’s called buying votes. When wages are set artificially high by the force of government, many people end up out of jobs because they’ve been priced out of the market. So far the rulers haven’t figured out how to force companies to hire people they don’t want at prices they don’t want to pay. After the wages have been set artificially high, then the companies pass the costs on to their consumers and the Liberals complain about the high cost of goods and want the government to do something about that. The government happily complies because they are for anything that builds their business (the government business) larger.
            Big Government is the problem, not the solution.

          • denniso

            DaveH, Your philosophy would take us back 100 yrs when we had 10 yr olds slaving away in poverty..women weren’t allowed to have good jobs if any..no safety laws protected workers in dangerous occuptions..employers could fire a woman who wouldn’t sleep w/ the boss…on and on. Gov’t along w/ organized workers fought to change things so you and others have a modicum of rights in the workplace and you can usually get paid a livable salary..corporations resisted every advance toward a more civil and free workplace and w/o the help of some in gov’t it never would have happened. Gov’t can be too big and too intrusive and bad, but it isn’t always. It’s very simplistic to think that all gov’t is bad and all individuals and businesses are good.

          • DaveH

            What is simplistic is to not recognize that the Bigger the government gets the more problems there are. It has been growing dramatically for 60 years now. And look at all the whining we have to endure from you Liberals. When do you guys throw in the towel? After the collapse? It will be a little late then.

          • Joe H.

            Denniso,
            For someone that claims to be a history buff. You need to read a little closer. The changes in working conditions and wages were a direct result of the people standing up for themselves, not the government. My Father was one of those first strikers in Detroit and all the government did was bust heads and arrest people. Federal and local alike. The common workers were the ones that took the stitches, casts and splints, and went without for weeks and weeks, not the government nor the union as there wasn’t one yet. The unions are crooked, the Government now only enforces what the people gained by themselves. You say you support the constitution, but you support a party that demands an open vote for or against the union. Nothing like influencing the elections and voters, Right?
            Look at the coal mines. do you think the government had anything to do with bettering the conditions in the mines? It was the people!!! The government, just like now, could give a flying flip about your welfare. Until you can’t pay your taxes. Oh that’s right they don’t care as much then!! Your not working for a boss could have something to do with your erroneous outlook on the unions and the government!!!

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…
            “Why is it almost totally Dems that talk of decent wages for workers, that real,working people might be able to actually live on?”

            Because only those that beleive a 40 year old that works at McDonalds flipping burgers, or asking “do you want fries with that” should make enough money to raise a family and buy a house would follow a Democrat.

            Here’s an economic lesson for you DENNISO. Do some research on “Supply & Demand” and the “Point of Equalibrium”. Your “living wage” sentiment is farce at best and no less than Marxism. Why should someone make a wage that exceeds the added value that they contribute? If the pool of supply for a given skill is large, then the remuneration for that skill is lowered…simply economics!

            Uh oh…There I go with facts again…I hope your head doesn’t hurt…

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…I will admit that the Unions had a major postive effect on workers-rights, but it wasn’t the Unions themselves that made those improvements it was the people on the front lines. The Unions them selves are the most corrupt form of big biz!
            With that said, the time for Unions has gone. They stopped helping the workers more than themselves sometime back in the 60′s. The Unions nowadays are nothing more than extortion networks and legalized-organized crime. They HURT their members FAR MORE than they help…Research the story of Bethlehem steel, a classic case of UNION GREED collapsing a company with insatiable demands…and you might want to research it on an unbiased site…Liberal sites will always tend to gloss over it with “a failure of management”.

      • Rod the Other

        Denniso…Yes, the Repubs want the iilegal vote as well. If you were as well informed as you pretend to be, you would hear the Repub-scum talking about “…appealing to the Latino vote”..Their all a bunch of whores.

        You need to check your facts, DENNISO. Most of the major CORP. contributors (ie big corporations), give money to the DEMOCRATIC PARTY (CAN YOU SAY TAMMANY HALL)…It is a known fact to educated people.
        And by the way over 80% of US Corps. are those small mom&pop shops. But you wouldn’t know that when you get your information from the LEFTY-ECHO chambers (MSN, CNN, ABC, and so on)…Or did you get that from Moveon.org?

        Rather than playing follow the most venomous-liberal-leader, you should ask yourself…”…did my last job come from somebody who had money and was taking a risk to make more, and should my next job come from a poor-person or the Gov.

        • Joe H.

          Rod,
          Denniso gets his info from Huff & Toke. I call it that because they Simply HAVE to be high to believe it!!!!!!

          • Rod the Other

            Ya know Joe H. Maybe if I burned a FATTY I’d be able to understand the logic. I’m just not sure that I can get that stoned and remain awake. Then again, I wouldn’t want that liberal-thinking killing my brain cells.

        • denniso

          Rod, sorry to inform you, I’ve been self employed most of my life..I create my own job.

          • Rod the Other

            Does the Democrat party pay you to push the “Agenda” on site like this? I imagine they pay pretty well. Afterall it’s not their money their paying you with. It was probably a political donation from SEIU, or ACORN….Maybe Google.

          • denniso

            You never really know who you’re bad mouthing,now do you Rod theO ??

          • Rod the Other

            OH NO DENNISO…I am quite familiar with who you are. I recognize you from such places and Air America, MSNBC, Environmental protests, Code Pink, ELF…your all the same, and your all to be pushed aside as agitators and the true opponents to honest debate.
            You never speak with good will, you never present facts, and you are the first to resort to name calling and intimidation tactics. I am very familiar with your ILK and you sicken me.
            With people like you their would be not such thing as freedom of speech, it would all be shut down and taken away in the middle of the night.
            I can only wonder when you will begin pushing for the fairness doctrine and start talking about how right thinking Marc Lloyd is (Obama’ communication czar).

            I am growing tired of you…Others on this site though we would be able to have some good informatiive debate….It has only been me presenting facts and you calling me names…I can play the name calling game as well FOOL. Don’t expect any respect from me in future posts until your willing to show some yourself…and get some facts to back up your claim…

          • denniso

            Sorry RTO, All of you agree on everything so how would you have a debate?? You can’t tell anyone how to comment here and we sane people have a duty to try to inject some reason into your ranting..we do it for OUR COUNTRY!!! By the way, as a little aside. A laid off miner just now walked in with his wife and baby selling jerkey to try to hold on to his house..this evil liberal bought a bag and I don’t even it the stuff. Can I send him to see you guys for help??

          • Rod the Other

            DENNSIO…Yeah send him my way…I’ll give him a job (teach him to fish), instead of just making a pitty purchase (giving him a fish). If your so sympathetic, why did you take the bag of jerky your not going to eat (or it)? The truely charitable thing to do would have been to give the jerky to his child which may need something to eat? But, I’m sure you feel good about yourself and the couple of pennies the guy made off of your buy (You know the profit that you LIBs seem to hate. You do realize that he had to buy that jerky before he sold it to you and the entire selling price was not his to keep…Right?).

            AS ALONG AS YOU FEEL GOOD RIGHT DENNISO….The facts don’t really matter, just feelings huh?

          • Rod the Other

            oh and DENNISO…DO you know why that miner is laid off?
            It’s because of shame environmental efforts that people like Obama’ are pushing (can you say CAP & TRADE). The coal mining industry is being shut down for NO GOOD REASON!
            But I guess I just don’t understand how the LIBs are benefitting people like that miner by shutting industry down.

  • http://N/A Mary

    This administration has bragged about the transparency that they have during the legislative/bill process! They have been doing business behind closed doors, with the media lap dogs spewing all of the garbage that Osama/Obama regurgitates!
    PEOPLE-IT IS TIME TO IMPEACH THIS MAN, HE IS A FRAUD AND A LIAR JUST LIKE ALL OF THE CZAR’S THAT HE HAS APPOINTED!

    • s c

      Mary, comrade obama and his brainded zombies (and those who voted for him) have no clue as to what transparent means. His only reason for being in the white house is to gain and keep power.
      As for the senate, it should be obvious by now that when a group does not deliver on its promises or its oaths, then that group is utterly USELESS and must be replaced.
      As for a fence, America’s overpaid whores in the senate never had any intentions of building one. Our border states must do the job. And when those scum in the senate complain, it will be time to remind them that the Revolutionary War was started by people who were not being properly represented or protected. Not only do they need a reminder. They need to see proof that the universe does not revolve around their sorry posteriors. They can be replaced. It will be on our heads if we do not replace them, and single them out for whatever punishment ‘feels good or sounds good.’ MAKE THEM PAY!

    • DaveH

      I disagree with both of you, Mary and SC. Obama is very transparent. he wants to be dictator of a Socialist country. I can see that clearly.

      • JeffH

        DaveH, you are so right on. Everything this man says or does is so obvious to all, those that support him and those of us that care and are Americans. That is why he wants fuul control over media and the internet, so that his lies and agenda can’t be exposed to the American people. Why all of the secret closed door meetings with the likes of Soros and Wright and those that will destroy our liberties if we allow them? The real transparency is Obama’s lack of it!

        • eyeswideopen

          You need to start a Soros club, maybe Sheldon Adelson will give you the money from is 26.6 billion dollar account. lol

          • Michael J.

            Ewo, Adelson’s account is now 3.5 billion. Pick another target. He was never a good comparison to Soros anyway. American born, self made and never sought the financial destruction of this country or any other.
            You and your cronies will soon drown in the water that Obama walks on if you don’t wise up.

          • JeffH

            Michael J, Uh Oh! You will get the wrath of The Parrot now, even though Adleson couldn’t wear Soros” shorts in the “destroy America arena”.

          • eyeswideopen

            Michael, a man who tries to purchase a congressional seat is not corrupt? Are you kidding? Oh, that’s right, the Republican wealthy never cross the line and try to influence others do they? The man is trying to direct the political future of Israel. Do you not read at all?

          • Rod the Other

            Micheal J….
            “You and your cronies will soon drown in the water that Obama walks on if you don’t wise up”.

            DUDE, that is one of the most awesome sound bits I have ever heard…I Hope you don’t mind if I use it?

          • Michael J.

            EWO, it’s called “the lessor of two evils”, Republicans that is. What’s one congressional seat compared to Soros sucessful purchase of a POTUS and the plundering of the pound in G.B.? Besides buying and selling congressional/senate seats is out of the democrat play book, ask the ex-governor of Illinois.
            I know that if I were ever to meet you in person that I would look into your eyes wide open and see the soul of Saul.

          • JeffH

            Michael J, you are vicious, and well armed. (for the libbies, that doesn’t mean guns)

  • http://msn Danny

    I hope the American people wake up in 2010 and 2012 elections to get these representatives and Congressman our of office. I think we should tell them and the King in Washington that is running the show to get out of the country so we can start again to reestablish this country. The next thing the liberals(Socialist & Marxists) will be taking away out right to bear arms.

  • http://N/A Mary

    This administration has bragged about the transparency that they have during the legislative/bill process! They have been doing business behind closed doors, with the media lap dogs spewing all of the garbage that Osama/Obama regurgitates! The health care debate is not their business and not the job our founding fathers gave to them, READ THE CONSTITUTION!!! NO TAX AND TRADE!
    PEOPLE-IT IS TIME TO IMPEACH THIS MAN, HE IS A FRAUD AND A LIAR JUST LIKE ALL OF THE CZAR’S THAT HE HAS APPOINTED! If we the people do not stand up and take back our freedoms from this bunch of criminals in office, then we have no one to blame but ourselves for being lazy, and complacent and not getting involved!
    Piglosi and Reid are the theives at the head of the class and somehow these creeps continue to be re-elected???? What a shame that people in this great country have taken for granted the election process we have and just vote for a name because it sounds familiar to them instead of doing their homework and finding out what these criminals truly stand for!
    WAKE UP AMERICA, WE ARE ABOUT TO BE SLAVES TO THE GOVERNMENT!!

    • denniso

      Calm down, Mary, you’ll blow a gasket!Sounds to me like you’ve been asleep yourself for a long time. You’ve been a slave to large corporations that control most,luckily not all, of our gov’t w/ lobbying $$ and campaign $$ for decades. This vote was actually indicative of your politicians standing up for you and against our corporate oligarchy..your corporate masters can only see the $ signs of the billions more that would go to the fence construction and
      maintenance. READ!!THINK!!

      • s c

        Chill out, dude! When you ADMIT that the Fed is one of those damned corporations that you love to whiz and moan about, then we will know that you can READ and/or THINK. Until then, go back and finish grade school.
        So far, you sound like somone who wants to be a czar or a newspaper editor. I can get better opinions from a coffee shop bulletin board, dude. You were exposed to too much crap in an indoctrination center that Americans know as a ‘public school.’
        Get re-educated while you can (assuming that you care).

        • JeffH

          You cannot change the mind of someone that wants to rely on government to run their lives and watch over them.

        • denniso

          SC, my boy..

          You apparently need to look up the definition of corporation and government..two very different things, but I suppose that if you think they are the same, and you don’t like the gov’t,then I guess we share common ground in not liking large corporations that are too big to fail and so big they can exert substantial control directly over your life and your elected gov’t officials.

          • s c

            Burn your pc dictionary. What we have now is a government that uses a mixture of fascism and socialism to get its way. TRY and separate this government from corporations, now that it “owns” some via UNCONSTITUTONAL, immoral methods. That fact alone is enough to warrant a supreme court challenge. What concerns me is the idea that this supreme court may not have enough integrity or moral courage to do to comrade obama what it did to FDR.
            When the supreme court no longer has the integrity to do its job, Americans will have to 1) rise up or 2) surrender.
            So, what would YOU do in the event that the supreme court acts the same way as comrade obama? That day may not be far off.
            Now, go BURN your dictionary. It was probably published by comrade obama or one of his many stooges.

          • eyeswideopen

            S.C. you act as though the corporations just started comingling with government in the past 9 months. It has been going on for the last 25 years and nobody gave a crap. All of our problems can be traced directly back to the Corporations. Corporations funneling monies to the Congressmen is the root of all the socialist programs subsidized by the government. Corporations are controling America at this point. Each and every congressman is taking Corporated money to get re-elected, therefore each and every decision is biased towards the donor. Not only do we need to remove all the incumbents, we need to revise the campaign election process and the contribution regulation. I must give John McCain credit, he did try years ago, with Kennedy, to get campaign reform done, didn’t want any private donations allowed, wanted everyone to get same amount, paid for by states. He got very little for his effort. Soft money was addressed. Congress will never vote to limit themselves in anyway…be it donations, or term limits. We need to remove all incumbents except those serving their first term.

          • Joe H.

            Denniso
            Perhaps you need to stop and consider that 65% or more of the people in the U.S. work for one of those big corps you screech about. When was the last time you ever got a job from a poor person? Those corps are the only ones with the money to create jobs. The government you tout so well doesn’t create anything except headaches and excess baggage!! Oh, and deficits!!!!

          • DaveH

            Those Big Corporations don’t have the power of Force. When is the last time you were ever forced to buy a product or service? Only Big Government has the power of Force. If indeed there are corporations that take advantage of us (no doubt there are), they have only been able to achieve that with the force of government to back them up.
            Big Government is the problem not the solution.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, you truly are an idiot, Last time any of us had to buy health insurance, we had to purchase from a monopoly. Of course you wouldn’t know as you are going to have us underwrite your hospital bill, since you won’t get insurance.

          • Joe H.

            Eyes,
            YOU need to look up the definition of monopoly. A mono poly is when one company has total control over the price and availability of a product because they are the only one offering it. You know like what the government used to allow the gas and power companies to have. They broke the full monopoly and removed the controls and what happened? Prices went up over night. Why? Because the government had controled the prices at such a false price for so long that the companies had to charge more to make a profit! That was the real monopoly in the U.S. and it was condoned by the government. Let any other company get that kind of control on any product and see how fast the government steps in!

          • eyeswideopen

            Dear Joe, here where I live, the utilities are controled by one company. The water is owned by the county, the cable company, just now got one other competitor in the area, We only have the choice of two major health insurance companies, home owners insurance companies have all pulled out of state, we now only have a state funded insurance company, our electric company is charging us in advance for a nuclear plant that will take almost 15 years to build. We are paying for something that we might not even be alive to use. Darling monopolies abound in this country and big business keeps it that way. And the politicians vote to keep it that way. Meanwhile, the water is being bottled by companies who are not even paying us a fee, while we are experiencing a water shortage for the past three years. How do they get away with that? Paying our legislators. Wake up and smell the greed. In this country right now, the question should be: Does it help the people or does it help the Corporations/Congressmen? Easy question.

          • Joe H.

            Eyes,
            If you check, the state probably restricted those other companies from working in your state. That is what the true conservatives are trying to get rid of, the favored vendor lists in individual states. We want ALL insurance companies of good reputation to be able to compete in every state, then you will have true competition and prices will drop! Just like the gas wars of the 70s. the stations competed for business and the price dropped. I saw gas in Columbus Ga. for 24.9 Cents a gallon in 1971. If you had read my post a little closer, you would have seen that I SAID the electricity, gas, water, all utilities were the true monopolies and they were supported by the government, in your case the state government!

      • Joe H.

        denniso
        the fence would only cost materials if they did it right. All they have to do is get serious about arresting the illegals and make them build it under the supervision of guards. No work only half rations of food! Get Joe Arapo out there and turn him loose to build it and I guarantee it will be built and the labor will be free!!!

      • Rod the Other

        Denniso….BRAVO…BRAVO….BRAVO…You have earned you Alinsky war patch, wear it proudly. I find it very telling how you never respond with a logical comment, or present your point of view with fact. If we could all hear you talking I’m sure it would be very calm and reassuring…and patronizing…like your so smart and you just want the dumb people to know how dumb they are so you can “re-educate” them.
        Is there any chance that you are a community organizer that recieved some of that 2 billion dollars or so that Obama just gave to ACORN in the last 2 months? Your comments are so familiar, just like they came straight from the whitehouse press corp….Do you know Anita Dunn?

        • eyeswideopen

          Rod, you need to check out the amount of money that the Repubs gave to Acorn. Becareful, cause they were the ones who increased it.

          • Rod the Other

            COME ON EYES… I am well aware of who gave money to ACORN. It is just ONE MORE reason I think Bush was a poor president. But lets be clear about the claim that “BUSH GAVE THEM MONEY”. Your intent here is to build buy-in to the belief the Bush “actively” supported ACORN. You know that the truth is more like if Bush didn’t allow OBAMA’ & Barney Franks requests for FED money for ACORN Bush would have been labled a racist that doesn’t want minorities to have a chance at the American dream…and it came with the biproduct for the whore-Repubs to reach out for the Latino vote.

            Don’t be so simple-minded EYES. These political-whores are always looking to “juice” people while telling them “I’m here to help you”. I could careless what ANY politician has to say, I want to see action…and looking at their voting record is a descent place to start.

    • jon

      If obama sings the treaty in copenhagen this dec. we will be one world goverment and america will be no more!!! Think about this!! People had better wakeup!! The end is near!

      • denniso

        jon,
        Is this supposed to be a joke?? Or are you selling something like dry food,guns,bullets,suicide tablets???

      • JeffH

        Should this become a reality, and the threat is very real, all red blooded Americans must rise up and do what is necessary to protect the very freedoms that our forefathers intended. If it comes to an armed confrontation then so be it. Freedom means much more to me than living under a One World rule or a facist/marxist/socialist country seretly controlled by the rich and financially influential of such groups as the Bilderberg Group, The Order of the Illuminati and A New World Order.

        • eyeswideopen

          Jeff, someone you respected previously debunked the Illuminati, why are you bringing up that conspiracy theory again?

          • JeffH

            OK TROLL, scratch the ILLUMINATI. How does it change my comment? It doesn’t, so shut your trap FOOL!

          • JeffH

            The conspiracy theory is brought up because it is necessary to bring up, although those that choose to ignore it will, and those that don’t might look into it further. Of course, I realize that might be too simple an explanation for your miniscule mind to comprehend.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, Who said it changed your statement? I just wondered why, after you had been enlightened on the subject, you brought it up again.

            You need to take care of your anger… You are over reacting. I haven’t even challenged you, yet.

          • denniso

            JeffH,
            Eyes is right..you need to control your anger..it does you no good to rant and call names and doesn’t help your argument. Also, you should no by now that it won’t scare us off..we might just ignore you if you continue it though.

          • denniso

            Correction..no, should be ‘know’..obviously

          • DaveH

            Jeff,
            Ignore the Liberals, they are just baiting you. They have studied “Rules for Radicals” well.
            Their main goal is to disrupt and fill the board with chaff.
            The readers will see that clearly. Don’t let them get to you.

          • denniso

            DaveH, sorry, I’ve never seen ‘rules for radicals’. All I’m trying to do is counter some of your most ridiculous points of view w/ rational statements of fact and reality. No grand plan here,DaveH.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, you think every thing is a conspiracy, maybe you should open your mind to the fact, that not all of us can be conned into thinking that the Libertarian party can solve all our problems. Hell, they couldn’t make it work in New Zealand as recently as the 90′s. Your party has been up and running since 1971 and you don’t even have over a million members, tells me Americans aren’t crazy for anarchy anytime soon.

          • DaveH

            As usual EyesWideShut is attacking the Libertarian Party. You may wonder why? Well, because she thinks she is tweaking me. I have put her misinformation down so many times that she must follow me around like a harpy – pick, pick, pick. But the irony here is that since she has lost her credibility with most members of this board, she is really the best advertisement for the Libertarian Party that I could ask for. This, folks, is what you can expect from those like EyesWideShut who want to decide how your money is spent and what your choices should be.
            Oh, and in reply to her New Zealand example which she plagiarized from Normal Liberal (she will try anything to spite me):
            http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10672

          • JeffH

            In all honesty, I wish denniso, Un-Norm-al and eyes would just pass me by, but that ain’t in their make-up. Carry on fools.

          • Rod the Other

            EYES… There are 2 major flaws with you assertion.
            First: that was in new Zealan, not here.
            Second: Your continual railing against Anarchy and support of Big Gov screams volumes about how little you know about what the founding father set forth for this nation.
            The founding Fathers wanted to establish a form of Government that was as least intrusive as possible to do so they knew they had to get as close to an Anarchist state without actually being Anarchists.
            On a continum Big Gov. would be on one side and Anarchy would be on the other. The first set of documents that tried to establish our independence was one step away from anarchy and they were called the Fedalist papers. That form of GOV failed because it was to close to anarchy. The next set of documents was one step further away from Anarchy and it is called the Constituion.
            Our founding fathers knew that the bigger GOV is the more intrusive it is and the more liberty it takes from the people. But, at the same time, they wanted a set of rules for all to abide by that would guarantee personal liberty, and prevent the strong from opressing the weak. To bolster that desire they incorporated the free-market system thereby empowering the citizens the ability to patronize business that was fair and ostresize business that was not.
            Our country is based on an Anarchy-light sentiment! Fair & Free!

  • Disgusted

    Outrageous! Vote them all out of office!

  • denniso

    How many of you really believe that a fence will keep out determined people,especially terrorists? Are we going to spend billions of $$ a year to maintain it, after the billions to build it? What do you propose to do about the 3000 mile Canadian border..a terrorist can simply walk across at almost any point along it. Suspected terrorists have come across already..How many more tens of billions to build and maintain a fence there? Get real,people!! We can’t protect ourselves by hiding behind fences and walls.
    If we did that, then what do you propose for the 1000′s of miles of coast line..a floating wall??

    • JeffH

      Then maybe you would prefer a well trained armed citizens militia take up positions along our borders to protect us from the illegals, terrorists and the crime they bring to this country. It seems the government isn’t too interested in protecting our borders from either one.

      • denniso

        We have thousands of border patrol on the border,trained in weapon use and law enforcement..have you ever lived near the border?? We don’t need armed,untrained, hooligans like you running amuck shooting each other in the foot and impeding real law enforcement. Chill out jeffH !!

        • JeffH

          That is how your weak little mind has perceived what I said. Go back and read it again, although I doubt you would understand it a second or third time. Our Border Patrol is undermanned and underarmed and could use some real help. Unfortunately Washington refuses to make a real commitment to protect our borders, just as they have refused to enforce our immigration laws regarding illegals.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, I don’t want a “well trained armed citizen militia” trying to enforce the border. Start with that and where will you stop? This country was not designed to have little militias enforcing the laws.

          • JeffH

            Then who will enforce the laws? Big government is showing all of the world that they have no intentions of enforcing these laws.

          • eyeswideopen

            Well, you all complained that Obama was doing too many things at once, What do you want him to do now? Maybe you should have submitted a priority list, as you can’t seem to agree on what is urgent. Economy, border control,drugs, war, Nasa, immigration, education, energy, taxes, healthcare, which one is most important to you? He’s doing too much, then it’s he isn’t doing enough. LOL.

          • JeffH

            eyes, it is called “vigilante justice”. When Big Government(thanks DaveH) refuses to protect America and enforce the laws.
            vig·i·lan·te “vij-ə-’lant-ē n : a member of a group of volunteers who decide on their own to stop crime and to punish criminals

          • JeffH

            eyeswideopen says:
            October 31, 2009 at 9:06 am
            Jeff, I don’t want a “well trained armed citizen militia” trying to enforce the border. Start with that and where will you stop? This country was not designed to have little militias enforcing the laws.

            I might add this country was not designed to become a country ruled by tyranny. I would suggest you make up your mind just where you stand, because you cannot straddle the fence on this one. You are either for or against TYRANNY, and whether you would admit it or not, Obama represents TYRANNY!

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff. that is really easy. I support the Constitution, We are a Nation of Laws, not Men. I will always support the law, and not the radicals running around as self proclaimed sherrifs. So who do you support the vigilantes or the Constitution? Let’s see which side of the line you are walking. You are always quoting the Constitution, so now the nitty gritty becomes real. Will you support your Constitution or not?

          • denniso

            JeffH and others,
            you’re spouting all this stuff about tyrany and fascist Obama..Bush tapped anyone’s phone he wanted to..Bush let CIA agents track what books ‘you’ check out at the library..he branded people who disagreed w/ his policies,traitors. Where is Obama a tyrant?? Trying to save the economy so you might keep your job? Trying to do the right thing w/ the wars that Bush started and couldn’t finish after 100′s of billions of $$ and tens of thousands of dead? GIVE ME A BREAK!! Get off your conspiracy theories and think independently.

          • DaveH

            Oh yeah, like you do. Baa a a. Baa a a

          • JeffH

            eyeswideopen, You didn’t answer the question. You support the Constitution and you support a president that does not support the Constitution. I said don’t straddle the fence, and that is exactley what you are doing. You know where I stand and I know where you stand. That has been obvious from day 1. Some of us want to preserve our freedom and some of you really don’t give a hoot!

          • DaveH

            Jeff,
            She doesn’t support the Constitution; she supports whatever she thinks will support her comments. She is a Big Government sycophant and will attack anyone who doesn’t support same.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, unlike you, I will not be a traitor, I will support the Constitution, and if necessary, I will fight people like you, who think an armed militia is legal. You are a 60 somehthing, wanna be, who is just itching to kill his fellow Americans, and will use any excuse to do so. You need to read the Constitution prior to taking up arms against this country.

          • JeffH

            eyeswideopen, this might be my only chance to “repent and serve my country”. I may have the opportunity to protect freedom and The Constitution from all enemies, foreign or domestic. Thank God, our countries founders, The Constitution and a free America for allowing me to be prepared. LOL!

          • Rod the Other

            EYES…An “Armed Militia” is not only legal but demanded by our Constitution as a means of ensuring that the GOV will never become a Tyranny.

            EYES…You claim to be familiar with the work of Jefferson. If that was true, you wouldn’t have made such an OBSURD statement. Let me share some of his work with you.

            Selected quotes by Jefferson about ‘rebellion’:

            “What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? LET THEM TAKE ARMS. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them.” –Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787. ME 6:373, Papers 12:356

            “The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere.” –Thomas Jefferson to Abigail Adams, 1787.

            “Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [i.e., securing inherent and inalienable rights, with powers derived from the consent of the governed], it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.” –Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315

            “We think experience has proved it safer for the mass of individuals composing the society to reserve to themselves personally the exercise of all rightful powers to which they are competent and to delegate those to which they are not competent to deputies named and removable for unfaithful conduct by themselves immediately.” –Thomas Jefferson to Pierre Samuel Dupont de Nemours, 1816. ME 14:487

        • denniso

          Eyeswideopen,
          Thanks for the reinforcement on the armed militia question…by the way, you’ve got the best name on here. Keep up the good work.

          • Joe H.

            Denniso
            I thought O-man had all these “Czars” to help him see the importance of different things. Sheriff Joe Arapo is now having problems enforcing those laws you and EYES talk of. Napolitano is breaking the laws on the books without first getting them changed. That my friends is illegal and i think you will find it under the statute called Aiding and Abetting! Every mayor of any townin the U.S. that creates a sanctuary city should be imprisoned for breaking the federal immigration laws!
            getting back to O-man, if he isn’t up to the job then he should step down and let someone that is take over!

          • Joe H.

            Denniso,
            The constitution says an armed militia is “LEGAL” I thought you and eyes supported the constitution. Or do you just support the parts you like?

          • Rod the Other

            JoeH ….Standing Ovation on both of the above posts!!!!

          • Rod the Other

            hey maybe you (DENNSIO) and EYS should get a room so you can stroke each other in private.

          • kathleen

            This reply is to ROD THE OTHER. RTO, your comment to denniso and eyeswide open about getting a room is disgusting, and shows what an unthinking jerk you are! If you are not able to come up with a sentence that has anything to do with the topic at hand, please use a little self-control, and DON’T POST ANYTHING!

          • denniso

            Hey Roddy, Your comment takes me back to 7th grade when it was thought cool and witty to say such things. Somehow i’ve gotten past that juvenile time,somehow you and your lock and loaders haven’t. Just to put your small mind at rest, I’m a very happily married dude and i would guess from the mature comments of Eyeswideopen that she is too. You??

          • Rod the Other

            Katheleen and DENNISO…No appologies offered…I’ve had enough of the disrepectful rhetoric of DENNISO and will only restrain myself from cussing. S O I

          • denniso

            RTO, you want respect, then quit w/ such comments as above, and you’ll get it.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNSIO…You know as well as everyone else here knows, the only respect you’ll be giving is to LIB & Ultra-Lib people…your nothing but an intolerant, hate mongering, bigot!
            You may have realize DENNISO that I am not your typical “don’t step down to their level, take the high road” conservative. I beleive to defeat those QUISLINs that would seek the “fundamental transformation” of this country into something tyrannical you need to be willing to defeat them were they live. I’ll get down on my belly so I can look you in the eye and point out your hypocracy and lies whenever and wherever I see it. “DON”T TREAD ON ME”.

            You started the mud slinging and I have no problem fighting fire with fire!…..It relaxes me :)

          • Rod the Other

            KATHELEEN…Your name calling only emboldend me. I am any but an “unthinking jerk”, not am I a “shrinking violet”. DENNISO and EYES have essentially declared war within these posts and WAR is not a civil or polite affair. If your not willing to fight the eneny where they live you will never succeed. I don’t beleive in arbitrary rules, I fight to win!

            Besides…You have a DISGUSTING mind…Where did your thoughts go when you read my statement? It would seem, right into the gutter.

            I will take the time to remind you of the definition of the word STROKE: To behave attentively or flatteringly toward, especially in order to restore to confidence or win over.

          • JeffH

            RTO, very nice. Even us “simpleton illiterate right wingnuts” understood your comment to eyes and duh!nniso. Kathleen must have her mind in the gutter as it didn’t pass my mind until she spewed her brains out.

          • denniso

            RodO and Jeff..are you not even smart enough to realize that you’re insulting your own ‘intelligence’ trying to fake your innocence about the ‘room’ comment??Give me a break,guys!!everyone in the world,even you, knows exactly what that comment means. Then you have the absurd gall to attack a women who calls you on it..just as you relentlessly attacked EYES w/ name calling..I’ve asked before and I’ll ask again..don’t you guys,as men, have any sense of graciousness or fairness toward women?..you somehow think it’s ok to attack them w/ namecalling just like you do men?? Like I said for EYES sake, back off on kathleen and try to refute her comment like an ethical man would, w/o resorting to obvious inults to cover your butts.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO… I suppose that I need to remind you that she started with the name calling, at that point NO she doesn’t get the benefit of being treated like a lady because she HAS NOT shown herself to be one, or conducted her self as such!

            AND DON’T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I know your a LIB and can’t resist, but I knew exactly what I said and what I meant. IT IS YOUR OWN DIRTY MIND THAT TOOK IT TO BE DIRTY. I just find it so common for those in the ECHO-CHAMBER to reinforce each others beliefs that they stroke each other for confidence and reaffirmation that their whacked thinking is correct and helpful to the human condition. (you know how you’d stroke a loved pet…or is that dirty too?).

          • denniso

            Rod..I guess it’s too difficult for you to admit you were wrong in crossing the line of decency on a public post. Not only won’t you accept responsibility for a foul comment, you make yourself look even worse by attacking Kathleen because she calls you a ‘terrible’ name for your comment..jerk.Thin skinned?? You also insulted EYES,of course. I thought part of the right wing philosophy was that liberals don’t take responsibility, but you great guys do. What gives ROD??

        • JeffH

          denniso…you stated “We don’t need armed,untrained, hooligans like you running amuck shooting each other in the foot and impeding real law enforcement.” in response to my comments. Where, praytell, did I suggest “untrained” hooligans impeding law enforcement? I didn’t, that was all a figment of your ignorant anti-gun imagination.

          • DaveH

            That’s how Liberals work Jeff. They rely on word-twisting, double-speak, and ridicule to throw you off. Ignore them. Just speak the truth, the readers will be able to see through the Liberal manipulative tactics.

          • DaveH

            The Bush Blame Game will grow old with anybody who is paying attention to current events. The Liberal Mantra that the Democrats inherited this mess will grow old quickly. After all, the Democrats have controlled Congress since 2007. Congress passes the Spending Bills. Bush was a Fiscal Liberal which made it even easier for the Democrats to precipitate the Bust.

          • eyeswideopen

            aha, Dave, you think poor Jeff needs your support? Getting to tough out here for him? He is a grown man, who didn’t serve his country, making cheap shoddy statements about those that did, and threatening to forcefully remove the President and Congress? He doesn’t need your help, he needs to remember it hasn’t been just Republicans who have died for this country to be free, and he owes his right to keep speaking trash to some honorable liberals.

          • Michael J.

            JeffH, A well armed militia to counteract in some cases, and do the work of in others, a tyranical government is EXACTLY what the founding fathers had in mind.
            Ewo claims to support the constitution, yet she must have skipped that part. Surely someone with eyes wide open would not have made this oversight (pun intented), so therefore we must assume her brain is still on dial up.

          • JeffH

            eyes, you got mixed up when Chubby Checker sang “The Twist”.

  • Sonny

    In just seven states it cost $26 billion dollars for illegal aliens per year, Texas $4.7 billion, California $9 billion, New York $5.1 billion, Illinois $3.5 billion, Florida 1.7 billion, Arizona $1.3 billion and Pennsylvania $728 million. Education, bi-lingual teachers, free school lunches,incarceration, time in local jail awaiting trail, lawyers, approximately 12 to 20 million jobs that American citizens need and yet our politicians are gutless to do anything about it. They cater to the Hispanic vote LULAC la Razza and other organizations who make a lot of noise. They don’t listen to the will of the people or the Constitution they swore to uphold. It is the Federal governments job to secure and protect our borders, they have failed this miserabley. Please remember this in 2010 and 2012. The link Bob provided at http://www.senate.gov/legislative is a good way to see how and what your Senator voted on. Obama wants to legalize these illegal aliens and give them full government entitlements. He and his Czars are socialist and he has a large following in congress. Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Snowe, Gene Green to name just a few, Please vote these people out of office while we still have a country left.

    • JeffH

      Sonny, thanks for the info. I have provided the link and the info in the past. It has to be continually repeated for those that aren’t on these sites regularly.

    • denniso

      Sonny,
      your numbers appear to be fake or GREATLY EXAGERATED! I don’t buy them. And it seems that you think nearly everyone but you and your cronies here is a socialist..WOW !! Is your fringe group shrinking as we speak?? Be careful, before you know it,it’ll be only you against all the big, bad SOCIALISTS outside your house.

      • RoBoTech

        WOW, you ARE living in Wonderland. Say hi to the MAd HAtter for me.

      • JeffH

        All your weak little mind has to do is just a little research. You could find out you might be mistaken, again.

      • DaveH

        Once again, no facts presented by Denniso, just the Liberal technique of ridicule.

        • DaveH

          Personally, my jury is out as to whether or not the illegals boost our economy or drain it.
          I think the main point to consider here is that they are Illegal!
          Since there are laws (right or wrong) that define how they can enter the country legally then we need to either eliminate them (the laws) or enforce them. EyesWide should support that since she has said
          “We are a Nation of Laws”

          • eyeswideopen

            You sound just like the Leaders of the Reich. Brown shirts arise, the Libertarians want to take over!!!

          • Michael J.

            DaveH, They break the law as soon as they cross the border. They work for cash, send their earnings back to Mexico. Do not pay taxes on these earnings. Sometimes sneak across to have their anchor babies or get medical help they cannot get at home. Drive drunk without a license or auto insurance. Oh, I forgot, what was the question?

          • DaveH

            As usual, the Harpy attacks anything I say. I’m talking about EyesWideShut.

          • Rod the Other

            DaveH…Some points to consider about whether the illegals help or hurt.
            The Illegals that come here are the poorest of the poor, they are the least educated, and the only contribution they make is labor which is the most common contribution that can be made by any pool of workers and is therefore a act of “dumping” by the countries that they hail from.

            The pew hispanic center came out with a report about 2 years (maybe 3) ago that cross referenced the education level with the amount of GOV services certain Demographics consume. The report concluded that: those with an education that graduated high school, or went on to further education, contributed something like $9 of taxes for every $1 of GOV services they consumed. Those with less-than a high school eduction consumed $3 of GOV services for every $1 of taxes they contributed. And for those that never even made it out of Jr. High they consumed much more than $3 per $1 of tax contribution.

            Most Illegal Aliens have less-than a 6th grade education (by American standards). Many can not read or write (in their native language, let alone English) well enough to function in a 1st world society like ours.
            The reason they can become American citizens is because they have NOTHING to offer us and in large part become a drain on any society that accepts them.

            THESE ARE FACTS, BUT IM SURE DENNISO, EYES, & NORM will dismiss these statements as mere racism.

          • denniso

            Rod…Wrong again!!The Mexicans and South Americans who come here are not,”the poorest of the poor”. The poorest can’t begin to afford the fees charged by guides and smugglers to get across.
            Now you appear to be denigrating labor as well..most Americans won’t do the backbreaking work that they do..picking crops,slaughtering pigs for hot dog,digging ditches,building walls,cleaning your motel room..all for minimal $$ and no security or rights.

          • JeffH

            duh!nniso, can you dig your burrough any deeper? Do you know what a coyote is? Your comment holds no merit once again.
            http://www.worldsalaries.org/mexico.shtml
            Average Salary in Mexico
            All Sectors average income PPP $ 548 Employees, 2005. 4,018 pesos

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO….Your echo-chamber PABLUM is not going to work here! That “jobs Americans won’t do” line didn’t work when Bush was selling it and it DEFINATELY is not going to work with you selling it!

            First off …A typical hourly wage of a laborer is $10/hr. Most Americans have learned, through their education, that it is better to work smarter rather than harder and will only accept such low paying work when they either have NO SKILLS (ie…it’s one of their first jobs), or the job is not that demanding and their just needing to “get by”.
            They have no problem flipping burgers at McDonalds for minimum wage because that job is usually only a stopping point until they get enough skill to move on to a better paying job, a job that probably requires them to be LITERATE in English!
            By the way, how many people here remember when you went to a fast food joint like McDonalds and it was a teenager, or young college student that was asking “do you want fries with that”? Now you go into these places and what do you see….30 to 40 year old women (rarely men) that BARELY speak English asking “do you want fries with that”. These used to be ENTRY level jobs…you know where KIDS went to learn something about the working world, but now they are occupied by unskilled social program receipients that think they should be paid a “living wage”!

            SECONDLY…The wages of many of these jobs is being SUPPRESSED because ILLEGALS will come here and accept the low pay (AND WE SHOULD BE GUTTING ANY EMPLOYER THAT HIRES THEM….THEY ARE ILLEGAL! AND IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED UNFAIR COMPETITON!) and force out American workers that can get that same pay somewhere else and not have to stand in the HOT sun all day.
            Again the typical wage of a farm laborer is around $10/hr. And the typical family spends around $300 per year on the fruits and vegetables that they buy. If you were to double the wage from $10/hr to $20/hr the cost of those frutis & veggies would increase to about $320/yr. And at $20 per hour you’d have to have a stick to beat off all of the AMERICANs that would want those jobs! The cost component of the labor is about 10%, doubling the wages would have such a minimal effect on the price we pay at the market and the Farmers could pass it straight through and I would pay it HAPPILY….IF IT MEANS GETTING RID OF THE ILLEGALS, LETS TRIPLE THE WAGE to $30/hr…We would be FAR better off for it!

          • Joe H.

            Denniso
            A meat packing plant in Ga was raided last year and over 60 illegals were arrested. the average wage there was 12.00 an hour. Now I admit you wouldn’t live like a king on that, but all of the jobs were filled within a week by U.S. citizens. Still say they only do the work that our people won’t do?

          • denniso

            Rto, We agree again, raise wages for working people..see, if we only try a little even two people who hate each other can find agreement on some things. Only problem is you’ll have to vote for Dems and liberals to raise the min wage to a point that’ll work for your scheme..no ‘conservatives’ will be on your side, but I will.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…The free-market is more than appropriate to fix this problem. We don’t need to raise minimum wage, or to have more GOV involvement. What we need is to remove the parasites from the system and let the market work it out.

            You claim to have a degree in ECON (that was ECON as in ecomonics right? not ECOM as in E-commerce?), if that was/is the case you would understand supply & demand and the point of equalibrium. Raising the minimum wage would do nothing more than hurt those whom have the fewest skills….. and you proport to want to help those people. LIB LIES HURT the people!!!

    • eyeswideopen

      Sonny, could you please give the link or site where you got this info? Thank you in advance.

    • http://at@t uscitizen

      Don’t forget georgia. We are a mess because of the hispanics.We are fast becoming a cesspool.

    • Rod the Other

      SONNY…I want to add something to your post. As far as organization like La Razza (by the way, La Razza means “the race”), many people do not know that their montra is. “All for the race, nothing for the rest”. Does that sound like a paradigm that we want to include in our melting pot?

      • denniso

        WrongRod..That is not their ‘mantra’,you’re making things up again.

        • Rod the Other

          DENNISO…Spread you deception somewhere else…It’s not working here.

          I’VE SEEN IT ON TEE-SHIRTS AT THE “ILLEGAL-IMMIGRATION” RALLIES HERE IN California…I’ve heard them chant it, they make no attempt to hide it!…Typically you will hear them shorten it at rallies and chant, “la Razza”.

          FOOL….QUISLING!

          • denniso

            WRONGROD..wrong again! The name of the organization is ‘la razza’,and like you said,means, ‘the race’. Their mantra,spelled w/ two a’s, is NOT ,’for the race and no one else’, or whatever silly phrase you wrote.

        • Rod the Other

          In the 20th century two groups have claimed the title la razza.

          The phrase “All for the Race, none for the Rest” seems to be a translation of “Por La Raza todo, Fuera de La Raza nada”, which translates “For the Race, everything, outside the Race, nothing”.This phrase appears in El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán . The Plan Espiritual de Aztlán (“Spiritual Plan of Aztlán”) is a manifesto advocating Chicano nationalism and self-determination for Mexican Americans. It was adopted by the First National Chicano Liberation Youth Conference, a March 1969 convention hosted by Rodolfo Gonzales’s Crusade for Justice in Denver, Colorado. This was a group that evolved in to M.E.Ch.A. (Spanish: Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán, “Chicano Student Movement of Aztlán”) is a student organization that seeks to promote Chicano unity and empowerment through education and political action, but is often strident in its tone, provactive in positions and offensive in its language.
          M.E.Ch.A. has gone through many evolutions, and although it has never been directly associated with the NCLR, it shares many of the same members.

          Hence, you will often hear this chant at immigration rallies!

  • http://Netzero Buckridge 10

    Why don’t these idiots in Wa. DC come down here to the border and see how the fence is working and talk to the BP who patroles this area instead of sitting on their A$$ in Wa. and figuring how to divert a bunch of mony to their own pockets.

    • Robert

      The only time those Washington sleezeballs will visit is when they can prosecute and jail a boarder guard for doing their job. It’s more important that they defend the rights of those persecuted illegal immigrants that us white nazi bigots are trying to hurt. Just ask Nancy Pelosi, she’ll edumocate u.

      • JeffH

        Pretty funny with a hint of truth!

      • Rod the Other

        Did you guys know that the Attorney General that prosecuted Ramos & Compean, John Sutton…Knowingly and wantingly committed purgery? He omitted evidence & testamony about the drug-smuggling illegal that would have proved Ramos & Compean to be innocent of the charges.

        Further more…He gave a special pass to the drug smuggler for his testamony. That pass gave him the “RIGHT” to pass over the border without being searched, and that the smuggler used that pass to bring at least 3 truck loads of drugs into this country.

        YET ONE MORE REASON BUSH WAS A POOR PRESIDENT. (Denniso, I bet it make you choke that I don’t support Bush…Doesn’t it?)

        • denniso

          RTO, i’m pleased for your sake..it means there might be hope for you afterall. Keep learning.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…Please hold your approval of ANY of my posts. It is unwanted, and only debases my credibility by having my views aligned with a QUISLING, intolerant, hate-mongering FOOL like you.

            You lefties are underhanded and I don’t want to have to look over my shoulder for the knife you want to plunge into my back.

          • denniso

            RTO…thanks for your disapproval of my approval..I guess I’ll have to keep doing it then. FREE SPEECH anyone??

          • JeffH

            duh!nniso, you, of course, are referring to the back stabbing, correct? I thought you abhorred violence.

          • Rod the Other

            I would expect nothling less from an agitator.

  • Robert

    I agree, this bill ends the waste of taxpayers money. Now lets get those Bradley tanks on our boarders with a ton of ordinances and use them all before they go stale. Lobbing a couple hundred thousand shells at the illegal immigrants crossing our boarders is good military training for any soldier before they are shipped over to Afghanastan. Or is the President going to get cold feet on that also.

    • JeffH

      Could charge admission and help ease the taxpayers debt with the proceeds. Might even raise, naw, the politicians would want their graft out of it. Sorry, bad idea. I’d pay to pull the trigger though. LOL!

    • Michael J.

      Robert, I think 12 – 20 million illegals could build that fence in a weekend. all it would cost is an aircraft carrier full of rice and beans. The ultimate irony would be to have them build the fence that will keep them out.
      Ok,OK, now for the truth. The reason the government is dragging their feet on any border fence, north or south by this administration or the previous one is because it would ruin their plans for the North American Union. They could better use that money to fence off the ten districts that the three countries will be carved up into after Obama disarms us all. And they do not enforce imigration laws now because they wish for us to become better aquainted with our new neighbors.

  • RoBoTech

    Only way to get them to listen is send them home in 2010.
    But, DON’T stop calling everyday. Emailing everyday. Faxing, every day.
    State Reps and Senators, Harry Reid, Pelosi, and The Socialist Liar, Obama, all of them.
    Stand on the corner across the street from your Pols offices with a sign as often as you can. Go to Tea Parties or ANY townhall/rally to voice your protest. Main thing is, DO NOT just do NOTHING!
    Posting on a blog does nothing but eat up bandwidth. Sitting on the couch screaming at the TV does nothing. And NOT voting does nothing to change the Country. Vote Principle and Country over Party. Voting for a alphabetical letter is what brought us to this point. People hated Bush so bad, and related him to that R after the name on the ballot, yet didn’t bother to research the man with the D. Biggest mistake the USA electorate ever made.

    • JeffH

      You make way too much sense. Good job RoBoTech.

  • Wayne Keel – V Vet

    Voting next year may as well be next century. It won’t matter either way, because that will be too late for the USA. The only way we can save our country is to go and take it back before they destroy it completely and they will do it before next November. All the politicians need to go and a third party needs to be put in place by the American public. The Constitution needs to be followed verbatim and put the country back in God’s name. That’s the only way we can salvage our nation. Otherwise we’re looking at being nuked in the next couple of years and both coast will burn. After that, all of South America will move in and take our places with or without a fence. The Anti-Christ will be here next year to bring it all about! Think I’m nuts? Go ahead and laugh, but you’ll remember this when it happens. Read the “Bible Codes” and see for yourselves, but God says we can change it only by taking our nation back before next year in his name. Lock and load!

    • eyeswideopen

      Wayne, just how are you going to take it back? Don’t be afraid, just spit it out. How do you think you can take back this country? What exactly are you proposing?

      • JeffH

        Not only are you a TROLL, but you are just a complete MORON!

        • denniso

          You’ve called me a troll and moron…I don’t appreciate that you are using my names on someone else!! Get a grip JeffH..you’re babbling again w/ your name calling. Eyes asks a guy who is threatening violence how he plans to ‘take back the country’ and you erupt w/ foul names. Try speaking.

        • eyeswideopen

          Jeff, are you afraid of his answer? Must be, or you wouldn’t respond that way.

        • JeffH

          Again, the only mention of violence was from the two TROLLS. You are such mind readers! NOT!

          • eyeswideopen

            I am asking him what he proposes to do before next Nov. He stated “THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SAVE OUR COUNTRY IS TO GO AND TAKE IT BACK BEFORE THEY DESTROY IT COMPLETELY AND THEY WILL DO IT BEFORE NEXT NOVEMBER”. I want to know just what he wants to do,and how he is going to do it. What do you have a problem with?

          • denniso

            JeffH,
            No one has mentioned the use of violence except the 2 trolls? V Vet finished his rant with, ‘lock and load’. I imagine you can figure out what that means if you can see around your name calling.

          • JeffH

            You have already figured out what he means and your usual comment in response is nothing but a smart A$$ question as usual. Even a fish doesn’t take the bait when it doesn’t smell right, thus whatever you throw out doesn’t smell right. You are either naive or just plain stupid.

          • JeffH

            denniso, you TROLL. If you don’t like the name calling, you are free to leave. Notice, I used the word “free”, which, depending on your interpretation, means you will be getting something for nothing, or you have a choice to stay on site or leave. Personally, it makes no differance, as you will always be a TROLL!

          • eyeswideopen

            Denniso, jeff is a dittohead, so don’t waste your time.

          • JeffH

            And you, my little redhead, are a TROLL!

          • denniso

            Eyes,
            I agree w/ your comment about JeffH, and clearly it’s mostly a waste of time..but I am getting better at my 2 finger typing and there may be a sliver of a chance that even he will open his mind just slightly, instead of simply calling us names.

          • JeffH

            denniso, it ain’t gonna happen

          • eyeswideopen

            Denniso, nope, Jeff, is not capable of logical thought at this time. He has become a rt wingnut, aka a brownshirt dittohead and there is no bringing him back to a rational place.

          • denniso

            Eyes, I’m sure you’re right about him..but I’ve seen other rightwing nuts soften up and even become empathetic toward their fellow beings when something goes wrong in their life and others step up to help them..then they flip and actually think a little.

          • DaveH

            I am very compassionate about my fellow human being. A lot more so than you Liberals. You will never catch me forcing my way on other people through the government.
            When you give of your own property – that is compassion.
            When you give of other peoples’ property – that is theft.
            Look up ‘economic freedom’ with your search engine and start reading.
            The countries who have the most economic freedom are the countries with the best economies. Good economies mean happy people.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, unless you have a hundred thousand bond made out for the nearest hospital where you reside, you are forcing the rest of us to pick up your extensive medical bill, when you get sick or injured in an accident. If you die, will your wife and children pay your debt? Sure I believe that they will pay out of pocket to make sure your debt is paid. Show me a family with no insurance, who will pay a large medical debt especially when the person died. Sure, happens everyday. You are using a form of force on the general public, by not carrying medical insurance.

          • JeffH

            eyeswideopen, I’m sure you and your libby freinds could pay the way for DaveH, as you are so willing to share with those in need. I’m sure you would be all about the distribution of YOUR wealth like your hero Obama wants.

          • DaveH

            I’m not forcing anybody to do anything for me Harpy Eyes. It’s you Liberals that are forcing people to pay unwillingly for the mistakes of others. Get your story straight.

      • denniso

        V VET,
        Are you planning to join the admirable ranks of the republic of texas, David Coresh, the montana militia guys..all confronting the Feds over usually absurd grievances and now dead..it doesn’t work dude. Vote,petition,organise and push for your change…threatening violence only gets you dead or in jail. This isn’t like 1776 where a few muskets worked.

        • JeffH

          denniso, and you are always looking for “violence”. Such a mind reader you are not, just another idiot armed with nothing more than an assumption and a keyboard.

          • eyeswideopen

            If we could have one site post that didn’t have one of the radicals of the Republican/Conservative/Libertarian party make some threat against the President of the United States of America, legally elected and seated, I would be in total wonderment of what in the heck has happened, certainly not a day without hate at this site.

            Maybe all the people that are being represented under the Republican name should really start their own parties, run their own candidates and take responsibilty for their own failures. The strangest bedfellows are the Libertarians and Repubs, Libs are all about self and self interest and the Conservatives are supposed to be about Christ and selfless actions. Talk about diametrically opposed. The Conservatives even give up their position on abortion and gays to get the Libs to help them.

          • DaveH

            There are two kinds of Liberals and both advocate theft at the government level:
            1) Those who are or think they will be feeding at the government trough. They are just immoral.
            2) Those who don’t or think they never will be feeding at the government trough. They are immoral as well as not too bright.

          • DaveH

            It’s interesting that EyesWide says she wants freedom of choice, but trashes a party that would offer that freedom and many more. The only beef I can figure that she has with them is that they expect individual responsibility. So the only conclusion I can reach is that her main platform is to take other peoples’ money. Let’s have some Greed with that Lack of Morality.

          • DaveH

            For any casual readers who might want to know what Libertarians really stand for, and not what EyesWideShut says they stand for, here is their party platform:
            http://libertarianparty.org/platform

          • denniso

            DaveH,
            The main problem I have w/ Libertarians is there self interest and lack of concern for less fortunate people, of which there are millions that are not so out of laziness.

          • JeffH

            eyeswideopen, I think you should point out and report those that threaten the president. I can’t find them, but apparently you can.
            Quote the threats with their name and post info for all of us to see, please.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, Wayne the vet. are you kidding me? Yep, you are blind also.

            Libertarians. Let me quote Bryan Caplan, a Libertarian economist.
            “IN A MODERN DEMOCRACY, NOT ONLY CAN A LIBERTARIAN BE ELITIST, A LIBERTARIAN HAS TO BE ELITIST. TO BE A LIBERTARIAN IN A MODERN DEOMCRACY IS TO SAY THAT NEALY 300 MILLION ARE WRONG AND A HANDFUL OF NAY-SAYERS ARE RIGHT” He didn’t even bother to try and include the Republican party in with the nay-sayers. Of course, everyone knows that your party just kinda uses the Repubs, as you don’t have enough members to even get on the ballots. Dave, you are an elitist, and an atheist, which is not what the majority of this country believes in. There are over 100 million Christians in this country, who will not allow anarchy to happen.

          • DaveH

            Denniso,
            The Liberals I have known have proven to be much more self-centered than the Libertarians I have known.
            The difference between Liberals and Libertarians is that the Libertarians respect the property of others (they aren’t thieves) and they respect the freedom of others to determine their own lives.

          • DaveH

            EyesWideShut,
            How many ignorant people does it take to make one smart person?
            You would have fit right in with the masses who proclaimed Aristotle was wrong to think that the earth was not flat.
            History is replete with the masses being wrong in their grasp of facts.
            If the masses had the answer, we wouldn’t be arguing on this board about the misfortunate people, because most of us would be rich.

          • DaveH

            And EyesWideShut,
            Anyone who reads these comments with an open mind knows that you are just the board Harpy.

          • DaveH

            Boardmembers,
            How many of you have had your religious beliefs attacked by me (the atheist) and how many of you have had your religious beliefs attacked by EyesWideOpen?

          • DaveH

            It has always amazed me that their are people like EyesWideOpen who will profess to be religious and then proceed to break religious morals like the one about “thou shalt not steal”.
            How big does the gang have to be before taking somebody’s money turns from theft to morality? If a gang of three walks up to you and says “give us your wallet”, is that theft? Of course! What if it’s a democratic gang of three and they take a vote? Is it no longer theft? What if the gang is 100 Million strong and they vote to take your money? Is it suddenly moral because the numbers are large?

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, what’s the matter, couldn’t you keep a coherent thought long enough, or did you just want to keep coming back. Didn’t like the quote from the Libertarian Bryan Caplan???? Why not? He states pretty clearly that all libertarians must be elitists. Here is more of his thoughts. ‘” the insurmountable evidence in favor of voter irrationality. It still remains the Achilles heel of democratic government. The problem is not mere lack of information, it is that voters badly interpret and judge the information they do have”
            Elitist Dave. Yes, you are.

          • DaveH

            The difference is consistency. I am consistently pro-freedom. You are consistently pro-anything that you think will tweak me or the other freedom-lovers on this board. You my dear (or son) are nothing more than an agitator. Like a little Chihuahua – all bark and no bite.
            Whoever is paying you to disrupt this board is sure not getting his money’s worth. But then, what employer who hires a Liberal does get his money’s worth?

          • JeffH

            DaveH, OUCH! I only hope I never have to experiance that kind of pain.

          • Joe H.

            Eyes,
            you want a site like that? Go to Daily KOS or Huff and Toke!!!

  • Lester Boone

    Does anyone know what’s going on in our government? I’m concerned. Is anyone afraid of the possible one World Government that may be coming? How about the Amero? I have lots of questions.

    I worked for the Government and it was sweet. I’m sorry!!! we’re in trouble.

    By the way, I enjoy all of the comments. Lets get out.

    Lester

    • Joe H.

      Lester
      If you want to get an idea of what goes on in our government then by all means read a book titled “Puzzle Palace”. You’ll find that phone tapping by the government has been going on a lot longer than the patriot act. Every government agency has a budget right? Don’t bet on it!!! Read it. Humor me then come back and tell me what you think of our government then!!!!

    • DaveH

      Lester,
      There are a lot of Political forces that are indeed pushing for that. Primarily they are either current leaders or wannabes. Many common people are enthralled with the idea only because it seems so romantic. But in practice, there is no way it would work. Evidence this Board. We can’t even carry on some discussions without extreme acrimony. How in the world (excuse the pun) could we expect to get along in a one-size-fits-all world government? Only the leaders would benefit.

    • DaveH

      I have written to my Representatives many times requesting that they get us out of the United Nations. Could I get some help?

      • eyeswideopen

        Yes, let’s isolate ourselves from the world. I think that we have learned that we need to get along with other countries if we expect them to help us when we need it. Last time we had to blackmail some countries, but when you call people names like evil doers, some do get offended.

        • denniso

          DaveH and others can’t learn from history, even history as recent as the past 8 yrs. Bush essentially followed their advice and look at the great results. The whole world hated us,would hardly help us where needed, and TWO failed wars..read some recent history guys and dolls.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO..you keep refering to history like you know something about it. You’ve proven time and time again that you take poorly cited and unsubstantiated comments out of context to make a non-existent point.

            Who wrote the history your referring to Keith Olberman, Chris Mathews and his tingly-leg? I bet the publisher was MSNBC!

            Please stop with your ill-informed propaganda. If you are a real patriot you owe it to your nation to speak the truth or shut up.

            “Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day”.

            “He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors”….was Jefferson speaking of you Denniso? your mind is filled with falsehood & errors!

        • Rod the Other

          EYES…Since when are we going “hat in hand” begging for the help of other countries?
          The only case you MAY be able to point to is ALL of the borrowing from China we’ve done in the last 9 months to pay for Obama’ socialist spending.

          • denniso

            Bush spent 1/2 his time in office begging the world to help us in the 2 wars that he couldn’t finish and whose costs have helped bankrupt us
            and helped push the country into the crash.

          • Rod the Other

            try again nut, no begging took place looking for allies to fight the wars.
            Obama tried to appoligze his way into support and even bowed to an Arab king and got nothing.
            At least Bush got support were he sought it.

      • DaveH

        Keep talking Liberals. The Readers can see that you have no clue what you are talking about. History has shown that Socialism is a failure everywhere that it has been fully implemented. And Libertarians don’t support the US as being the World’s Policemen. You Liberals can’t even get along with most of the rest of us on the board and you are foolish enough to think a one-size-fits-all world government is the solution?

        • denniso

          Who’s pushing socialism?? If you think that a reasonably progressive tax system is socialism than you’re really off the wall.

          • DaveH

            We are now, and have been for some time, a nanny state. And under Obama that condition is growing faster than ever.
            Progressive Taxes?
            In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income. The bottom 50 percent paid 3 percent of the federal income taxes. That’s not progressive, it’s income redistribution (theft).
            http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, little more info for you. tax rate from 1951 thru 1963 was at 91% for salaries over 400k. 1965 changed to 70% for 200k. 1981 69.125% over 215,400. 1991 31% over 82,150. 1993 39.6 % for 89,150. 1994 39.6 for over 250,000. 2003 35% for over 311,950.
            Dave as you can see the wealthy have continued to see their rates go down and the salary range go up. The wealthy in this country are enjoying the best tax rates in our history. Thank you George Bush. Someone making 22,000 paying 28% and another paying 35% ( 7% more) on $311,950 is a little disportionate. But I am for a flat tax that Huckabee proposed and the party didn’t like that idea. They have too many luxury items that would get slammed,lol

          • DaveH

            What would you say if you went to the grocery store and they asked for your income statement before they decided what prices you would have to pay? If the percentage of tax just remained the same the rich would still be paying much more than the average citizen. Do they get extra government for all that extra money? Sorry, bad example, they wouldn’t want any extra. Me neither.
            Without the rich who, unlike Obama, really know how to manage a company, many of the citizens would be out of work (more than even now under Obama). I know – they would be so happy under Socialism. Everybody then would be all equal, equally poor that is. They wouldn’t have to see their rich neighbors and their “conspicuous consumption”. Ah, the politics of envy. What would Castro do without them?

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO & EYES…You guys are so full of it it’s astonishing.

            Just because you put “reasonable” in front of the word progresive doesn’t make it so! LIBS talk all day long about leveling the playing field. How is one group paying 70% and anothe paying NONE level. IT IS REDISTRIBUTION PLAIN AND CLEAR!

          • Rod the Other

            EYES… I find it funny how you gloss over the fact that the lowering of the taxes is what lead to higher pay and more revenue into the GOV. The lessening of the burden of taxation is EXACTLY what lead to that growth.
            Furthermore, the person that cut those taxes was Reagan. And as soon as the revenue to the GOV went up the LIBs could’t start spending it soon enough.
            You may want to take a look at an economic paradigm called the Laffer-curve.
            MAN! You guys refuse to put anything in context…I guess it is the only way you can sway the ignorant into your liberal thinking.

          • denniso

            Roddy, ever heard of the term, disposable income? Apply that to the tax rates and see what you get. Can you figure it out??

          • Rod the Other

            yeah and I suppose all you lefties see any income as disposable and is therefore open to 100% taxation…Sell your wares elsewhere, I’m not buying…If I earned it, I decide where it goes.

  • Dickie

    Why should they keep these,Drug dealing thugs,Out They get free medical,Free schools,& Your jobs,They become (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT),Now they keep your wages down,They take your jobs,Your homes,Your bussiness,They will make [YOU]learn spanish to be FARE to them,You put them in prison,They still have it better,And all the while, You lose everything,What a deal,I can’t wait untill they take the jobs from these bleeding hearts,If the American job slum conpany’s payed a respectful wage,This would not happen,But when you keep voteing these tratiors(WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)]in office what do you expect,reid,pelosi,boxer,& the rest of the (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) want is their votes,That is all,And these stupid people in calif.Deserve what they get,You don’t see any Repub,states in this mess!,So you can’t blame them.But some of you are so arrogant,You don’t want to see it,Well you clowns,Fell for the lies the demon’s have told you for years,The repub’s are going to take your S.S.I,medicare, &medicade from you,Now see who has stole your life,The demon’s,And you fell for it.LOL.Just keep beleveing the tyrants,& lies,One day soon you will see!All they have to do is put these people,Doctors,& lawyers,In prison for 25-yrs,Take their lice,And like axelrod & the rest of these parasits,Take pay off’s,In prison,So the medical field,Would not be able to rob us,Look how ob’s acorn has corrupted America,Voter faurd,Is out in the open and running wild,But YOUR GOVERMENT won’t do a damn thing about it!, And you let them.And if these (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) people in VA.& WVA.& what do you expect NJ.Put more lier’s in office,Just how stupid can you get?,They are getting nothing out of this,Except MORE TAXES,NO JOBS,Unless you are in one of these Immoral union’s,That force jobs to go to other countrys,They get free medical care alone with illeagles,That you pay for,You pay for free houseing for people with bad credit,Don’t want to work,Just get a hand out for a free America,Through acorn,While you lose everything,Your own polition won’t even give you the time of day,much less an ansewer,If you don’t like what is going on!You people are worthless,Johnny depth was right when he said the American people are stupid!And lazy!You don’t care about this great nation,All you care about is sonething free!,And to stupid to realize NOTHING IS FREE!,UNLESS YOU ARE A ILEAGLE,UNION,OR WITH ACORN.

  • tim k

    Please take the time right now to add impeachobama@impeachobamacampaign-news.com to your Contacts List, IT’S TIME TO STOP ALL THIS W/H + MOE/CZARS+++I LOVE AMERICA AND FREEDOM AND FREE ENTERPRISE/CONSTITUTION/ LOCK DOWN THE OPEN BORDERS… IT WILL TAKE ALL OF US TO DO THIS…

    • eyeswideopen

      Tim, there has been no impeachable offense commited. Just because you don’t like him, doesn’t mean you can impeach him. Can you name an impeachable offense?

      • denniso

        Your right eyes,
        Most of these people just hate obama for no rational reason. Are they so livid because they are sore losers..he won and McCain lost, by 7% or so. One of the largest Dem victories since Roosevelt.
        Obama is trying hard to save this country and it’s capitalistic economy,much as Roosevelt did. Socialism was on the march globally 100 yrs ago and the depression made our country ripe for a move to it. Roosevelt instituted some progams to put people to work and keep some out of extreme poverty, old and young. The right wing back then fought him tooth and nail just like they are fighting Obama now, w/cries of communist,socialist!!
        By the way, the great crash of ’29 came about entirely from abuses of,what?? the capitalist system itself..there was essentially no gov’t involvement in the economy then,so the gov’t can’t be blamed for it.
        Capitalism w/o a sufficient degree of control and regulation eventually devours itself in a feeding frenzy of greed and gluttony. It’s a bit like a law of physics..it is a law of capitalism.

        • http://none Donna Hartley

          You don’t understand your economics or history at all.Roosevelt exacerbated the depression we got into when we went off of the gold standard and started taxing and punishing businesses to death.Roosevelt just continued the mess when he came to the White House.I would suggest you start by reading Ayn Rand, anything by Ayn Rand, who lived in Russia after the communist revolution.The starvation and living conditions were appalling but you’ll have to find this out for yourself.Either that or try visiting a country like Zimbabwe or North Korea.American public schools don’t teach econ or history any more and people like yourself are the result of this.

          • denniso

            Donna,
            sorry, but I’ve read the story teller Rand..I’ve got a degree in econ, and likely read more history than you, especially about the depression and Roosevelt. I know your party line is to blame R for the depression, it derived from your history teacher,Limbaugh..it’s amazing to me that 1/2 intelligent people can actually twist and warp real history to fit their political slant. But, that’s the ‘new world order’, I guess.

          • JeffH

            denniso, your so called “degree in econ” might be your biggest enemy. Again, you have demonstrated a propensity to discredit a commentor without substance to back up your accusations.

          • eyeswideopen

            Donna, Ayn Rand’ theories have now been proven wrong, with the present situation proving that. Even Alan Greenspan who was in her group called the, Collective, admited that letting the market run free without certain regulations does not mean will correct itself. A true free market will implode in on itself, as it will become a monopoly that will end up shutting out competition. Anti-trust laws were enacted to prevent that type of situation, however, presently the insurance companies are an example of how they didn’t protect us, those laws have been used against the public for the past 60 years. Find it hard to believe that nobody ever reviewed the situation.

          • DaveH

            Name a single example of the Monopoly that you proclaim will exist under a free market, Ms. Double-Speaker.
            The only monopolies that have existed in our country have been those protected by the force of government.

          • Joe H.

            dennie,
            Did you ever stop to consider that Donna H. might have a degree in history or even ECONOMICS? Maybe a PHD or MASTERS!!! You aren’t the only one with a college education here. Or are you so puffed up as to think you are or yours is the only degree that matters. As far as your engineering degree, I’ve seen more than one engineer put something into a blueprint that won’t work and say “it HAS to, it worked on paper!!” There are even ones that have designed vehicles with 5 wheels and that doesn’t count the steering wheel. Economics? How many people with degrees in economics have gone bankrupt? How many without them are self made millionaires? Go try to impress somebody else with your degree as I’ve been there, done that and GOT THE T-SHIRT!!!!

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…Just because you claim in ECON doesn’t make you an authority. Your posts here would suggest you are either lyeing, or the degree of which you speak is form Occidental or Berkely and centers on redistributive policy.
            I would like to know what your GPA was and were you went.

            Or maybe your one of those economist that beleive Communism is good because it works out on paper and completely disregard the fact the when implemented it is a downward death spiral.

            Have you ever heard of the “tragedy of the commons”? Probably not….Look it up.

        • eyeswideopen

          Denniso, Rod the Other, would certainly be a challenge that you would enjoy.

          • denniso

            Eyes,
            Rod the Other? I’m missing something.

          • JeffH

            eyes, is that an addmission that your reason for being on this web site blog is nothing more than a game? That only confirms you as an internet TROLL!

          • eyeswideopen

            Dennis,He is on another post, He thinks he is an economic wiz kid. It would be interesting if you two conversed.

          • denniso

            eyes, I see,so to speak. You know, most Americans never learn much of anything about economics, and then they rant and moan about our economy and it’s problems of which they KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! It’s more than frustrating and detrimental to society when they flood gullible minds w/ pure pap. I wish they would stick to something they know,like rocket science,physics,genetics,engineering,history,music,
            art,architecture,meterology…Oh, sorry, those may be out of their reach too.

          • DaveH

            Denniso,
            The fact that you have a degree in Economics (if you really do) just accentuates your ignorance. If you indeed had any real education in economics you would know that the heavily regulated countries do poorly and the economically free countries do well.
            It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that the rewards of free-enterprise gives people an incentive to work hard, and the stifling regulations of a Socialist system have the opposite effect.
            Without the labor of people we would have nothing.

          • denniso

            DaveH..we agree!! w/o the labor of workers there would be no corporations that now own most of our gov’t.

          • DaveH

            Denniso,
            Don’t confuse Hopes and Dreams with intelligence or knowledge.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, you think that government is force. How do you think they get that force? Yep, it is from the corporations paying to make sure their own interests are served. Congressmen accept donations from corportions who in turn expect the congressmen to vote in their favor when any issue comes up that may hurt or help them. It is easy to understand Dave, Corporations are FORCE. So you are partically correct in your thinking.

          • Joe H.

            Eyes,
            Yes, by all means, bring on Rod. If the couple of posts I’ve seen here tonight are any indication, I like the way the he thinks. Rod, if you are out here still, stick around!!!!!!

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…I find your above post in this thread very telling of your liberal-ellitism. Without even spending one second looking into my posts you’ve passed judgement on me.
            It is hard proof that you DO NOT go into a debate with the intent of weighing the merits of anybody else point of view. You are so sure that your point of view is so superior that you can debase and invalidate others with not so much as even hearing them and having the slightest bit of understanding of their thoughts.

            It makes it very clear how you can leave the posts you do. Your posts have no facts, no support, and no logic that can stand up to honest debate. You feel that you are so superior to other that you need not qualify your statement, becase afterall they came from you so therefore they must be fact. YOUR A FOOL…Now go scratch your beard while riding in yor limousine and shipping chardonay….you shill.

            Hey EYES…I feel sorry for the reality that awaits you. Your blind following of king-Denniso is going to lead you into a place you don’t want to be. I hope like I’ve never hoped before that this country does not end up in another civil war. But if it does you better choose your side based on facts, not the fiction your leaders are pushing…DENNISO is probably on the LIBs payroll and will leave you for dead.

          • Rod the Other

            EYES…How do you think those intersts are served? It’s by trial lawyers and the vast majority of trial lawyers are either paidoff and in alligence to the Liberals in GOV, or they are the liberals in GOV.

            Answer one question. How come there are now laws on the books retricting lawyers, particularly trial lawyers, from bring about frivilous lawsiuts? Because this is the private militia of the Democratic party. and that is the number one reason why there are more millionaires in the Democractic party than in any other party combined!

        • Joe H.

          Denniso,
          All bow to the great and educated fool Denniso. He is better educated, knows more about everything and has more Experience in all things important. Were you there during the great depression? If not then you only know peoples interpretation of the conditions then. Did you live from hand to mouth during the worst time in American history? Have you ever had to worry where your next meal was going to come from? Were you even around during the recession of 1980? Have you even gotten laid off with three children and only maybe 5 or 600 dollars between you and what ever? Have you ever even defended this great nation? If so Prove it. Describe something that others stationed there will recognize!

          • denniso

            Hey Joe H…I never said I was more educated than some of you,since I don’t know what your educational level is. Here, I thought you guys were the smartest and knew more than anyone else w/ all your ranting and absolutist thinking.By the way, a college degree means next to nothing when it comes to independent thinking.

          • Joe H.

            Denniso,
            then why do you keep lording your education over Jeff, and others here?

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…I find your statement, “…a college degree means next to nothing when it comes to independent thinking”, very insightful.

            Because I beleive that, “your independent thinking, means next to nothing”. You possess none, your a seminar liberal, all you do is carry the parties water and push the agenda.

      • DaveH

        Obama has taken the Federal Government way beyond the limitations as imposed by the Constitution which he swore to uphold. He is making a strong effort to stifle our freedom of speech and our freedom to bear arms. And he is trying to impose Nationalized Health Care which is definitely UnConstitutional. The Federal Government does not have the power to force us to buy a product. Read the Constitution for yourself, if you have doubts:
        http://www.cato.org/pubs/constitution/constitution_en.html

        • denniso

          DaveH,
          Obama is not going to take your guns away..there are already restrictions on gun rights,just like all other rights. The mentally ill aren’t supposed to be able to buy a gun, convicted felons can’t,etc. Would you be surprised to know that I agree w/ you on forcing everyone to purchase private health ins. You’re right that the Feds shouldn’t have the power to make us buy anything from a private company..I’ve been sending emails and comments all over to mainstream people, Grassley etc, saying exactly that. But that is a different issue than universal healthcare..it doesn’t have to be done like even the repubs are suggesting w/ ‘mandates’. People in the richest country in history should have access to affordable healthcare. It shouldn’t bankrupt people and the country as it is now doing.

          • eyeswideopen

            denniso, anti-trust laws have made and kept a monopoly for the Insurance companies. There is no competition and Wall Street will punish us, if we try to get out from underneath the healthcare mob. I don’t believe in forcing anyone to purchase anything either. This whole insurance game is a scam and the Corporate owners will not relinquish their stranglehold on us. Every Congressman who has taken any insurance money should be removed from office and should not be allowed to vote on this bill which sucks. However, if it does pass, then the rest of us won’t have to be picking up the tab, for people who don’t have insurance and dump those costs into the system, making our premiums go ever higher.

          • denniso

            Well said Eyes..I agree that health ins through giant ins co’s is basically a huge fraud. A large part of the problem is the obscenely soaring costs of health care in general and where is the $$ going. Sure a lot goes to working people in the health system..much goes to multi million salaries of the top dogs in the giant corporations.
            I’ve said that if we are forced to buy health ins from private co’s I might choose jail instead. Not a fun thought,but maybe some of these hotheads here will put down their guns and join me there in a fight for principle.

          • Joe H.

            Dessiso
            you call the libertarians “ELitists” yet with your post of 11-02-09 at 7:47amYou could not possibly be taken as anything but one! You say that all the degrees you mention are above the average Americans grasp. You are an elite, self centered boob who tries to lord over the “minions” like his droppings don’t stink yet yours smell more foul than any “AVERAGE” American!!!

          • DaveH

            As I’ve told Eyes many times Denniso, if you think the insurance companies are ripping you off don’t buy any insurance.
            Even better, EyesWideShut, yourself and the other whining Liberals are free to take a shot at running your own insurance companies and health care companies. You could then show us your compassion for others by keeping your prices low. Put your monies where your mouths are. Of course you won’t take me up on that because you know you are just spouting hot air.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…GOING bankrupt because of healthcare According to Obamas claim of someone going bankrupt every 30 seconds, that would mean that every year aprx 1 million people go bankrupt because of healthcare costs. This would mean that most if not all of the bankrupcies are healthcare related. I find this claim to be fraudlent on its face.

            Besides, would aprx 1/3 of a % of the population going bankrupt from healthcare costs justify taking away a system that over 80% of the entire population like and approve of? I don’t think so…It is the LIBs engaging in fear tactics, once again, and then projecting that one the Repubs to influence the simple-minded (I’m looking at you EYES & NORM).

          • Rod the Other

            I find it funny how these LIBS decry the “soaring cost of healthcare” and blame insurance COs. but disregard the positive effect that portability would have on the industry. I don’t know how LIBs like DENNISO can claim to be educated in economics and make these statements.

            Here’s your chance to prove you know something about ECON DENNISO. Our healthcare costs are raising at a higher rate than other nations because, as Americans, we are “first movers”.
            What is a First Mover?
            &
            Why would they pay higher prices than secondary & tertiary movers?

          • DaveH

            Rod,
            Most, if not all, of the outrageous healthcare costs are a result of Big Government. If they really wanted to fix healthcare they would get the government out of it and empower the consumer.
            But it’s not really about healthcare. It’s about growing government larger and more powerful. The leaders benefit, the followers don’t.

          • Rod the Other

            DaveH…I am still waiting for DENNSIO THE GRAND DECIDER to respond to my post.
            I do have a respone for your statement, but his excellency must offer some of his intelligence for inspection firts. He’s probably looking through his indeterminate structions texts for clues.

        • JeffH

          denniso says: DaveH,
          Obama is not going to take your guns away. What drug are you on? He never voted against one piece of anti-gun legislation in his life. Eric Holder, an Obama appointee, has made it very clear what his intentions are. Again, you might have to read and believe something you might not like. Forgot, denniso is a gun hater also!

          • DaveH

            Yeah, but he has a degree in Economics! LOL.

          • denniso

            Also engineering..but I don’t talk it up because an engineering degree is a pretty narrow one..lends to narrow minded thinking.

          • DaveH

            Then Denniso,
            You are smart enough to research the concept of ‘economic freedom’. Articles abound. Wake up and quit sniffing Eyes’ tracks.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…You don’t have any degrees and youv’e proven it with your above post.
            A person educated as an Engineer would not have their thinking narrowed! It would be influenced to think in a “systems” perspective.

            And the great OZ has been exposed…The curtain has been seen behind!

          • denniso

            Rod the Otter,
            I’m afraid I didn’t study systems engineering..only things like indeterminate structions and mechanics of deformable bodies..I don’t claim that I can’t think, only that an engineering degree by itself is very limiting and tends toward narrow mindedness. Got it??

          • Rod the Other

            NO I dont “got it”…the only academics associated with engineering that would narrow ones thoughts would be SOCIAL engineering as far as I can see.
            And it is funny that you cant even spell you course of study correctly, you did mean indeterminate STRUCTURES right?
            I suppose you weren’t at the top of your class…

            Given the use of statistics in these areas it would make sense that your a Communist…afterall it works in the strictly theoretical environment as well.

        • eyeswideopen

          Dittohead, you are needing to cut back on your drug usage. Show us the bills that have done what you are accusing him of. You can’t as there aren’t any.

          • DaveH
          • DaveH
          • DaveH
          • DaveH

            And just a few of his many anti-gun appointees:
            Harold Hongju Koh
            http://gunowners.org/koh.htm

          • DaveH
          • DaveH
          • JeffH

            DaveH, there you go again providing facts with a right slant on the truth. Shame on you!

          • DaveH

            Yep, I’m waiting for the Harpy and her sycophantic follower to provide us with contrary facts (like they ever present facts).

          • Joe H.

            Eyes….Eyes…Are you there? I figure it’s just that you are busy checking out the links or you would be replying now. Stand up open minded person that you are!! Eyes….chirp…chirp….chirp

          • Joe H.

            Dave,
            Cass is a typical libber!!! He believes people should be sterilized by putting things into the water. Believes that if you can’t get RATS out of a building without causing them pain they should be left there. Nevermind they carry bubonic plague!!! He also believes animals should be able to sue their owners with lawyers as their reps. There goes the notion that you should be able to face your accuser and hear his testimony!!! I can’t wait to hear Fido stand up and say “he’s the one, he’s the one that left me out on my rope and didn’t come home from work to play with me!!!! Throw the book at him your honor, Oh wait wasn’t I SUPPOSED to chase that?”

          • DaveH

            The truth is that most of the Liberals could care less about the animals. They are just seeking whatever means necessary to achieve their redistribution of wealth.

          • denniso

            To Rod the Otter above..like I might have already said, I never studied systems engineering, only things like indeterminate structures and mechanics of deformable bodies. I don’t claim that I can’t think reasonably well, just that an engineering degree by itself is inherently limited and can lead to narrow mindedness. Comprende??

          • libertytrain

            denniso – why do you feel the need to say “Rod the Otter” rather than his correct name? Doesn’t come across as the educated person you mentioned that you are.

          • eyeswideopen

            liberty, have you ever asked why they call me Eyes WideShut or the many other names like troll,? No. You are biased towards the others, it is obvious. When you can defend or call out both sides, you then have the right to question someone, don’t you think?

          • libertytrain

            Eyes, I actually have commented on that before – but you and your opponents still continue – And the name calling isn’t impressive on either side.

          • Rod the Other

            LIBERTYTRAIN….Thanks for trying to introduce some civility here, but truth be told I think it frames the personality of the commentor very well. DENNISO thinks he’s getting under my skin, but the childish attacks actually make me laugh.

            With that said, I imagine the finger can be pointed at me for calling EYES…EYES WIDE SHUT in my earlier posts. I felt compelled to do so, because taking a name like that suggests that the bearer has clear vision, and when that commentor disagrees with someone, the inference is that the person being disagreed with is somehow not seeing things, or they have their EYES CLOSED.

            I try to refrain from such unproductive name calling, but when someone is twisting your words, or putting words in your mouth it gets to be a BIT much to bear.

          • libertytrain

            Rod the Other – I agree, it sometimes is hard to restrain oneself – because the provocations and misinformation from some of the other folks gets a little intense. I’m not the cussing fairy….just think it reads better and presents a stronger argument without the “Otter” type stuff. You just did a play on words – I saw nothing wrong with that – hey, it’s the name of that peculiar movie as well.

          • Rod the Other

            LIBERTYTRAIN…You still have to admit..Otters are pretty cute…Fuzzy little guys…Their breath probably smells a lot like ***********(aahh… I’ll let that one go)

          • libertytrain

            Rod the Other – yes, here’s to the Otters -

          • denniso

            Sure there should be more civility..Playing around w/ a user name is not exactly hardcore name calling though. I would suggest that the incivility starts when most people on this site begin by hurling names at the president and cleverly(they think)imply the use of violence against duly elected officials of OUR country.

          • denniso

            And, speaking of civility..everyone see what infantile crap Rod posted about eyes and me above??about 1/3rd of the way down. Lovely and civil comment!!

          • JeffH

            You get out of it what you put into it. You are as thin skinned as your president.

          • JeffH

            denniso, can it already. Are you the presidents keeper? Lock N Load.

          • Joe H.

            Denniso
            check out my post of Nov. 2 at 8:58 p.m. You say Eyes was mild on her name calling? What about leader of the Reich? That’s tame? Those names I printed were from BOTH of you not just you or her, BOTH!!! Don’t complain if you yourself are not above doing it yourself!!!!

          • Rod the Other

            It leads to being repetitive as well apparently….

        • eyeswideopen

          Dave, using your logic, that means Medicare is unconstitutional. Let’s see you start supporting a repeal of that government run program. You won’t because every Republican on this site, loves their government run Medicare. Just ask Jeff, and he will tell you. The topic of Obama trying to take away our guns, has been exhausted on this site, and he hasn’t proposed any bill to do that… another lie you are supporting. You epitomize the conspiracy dittoheads. You only promote the things that make your elitist values the object of your concern. You want this country to fail, so that your elitist Libertarian party can swoop in and gain control. Sorry buddy,Americans are smarter than that. I don’t think any of them go to bed at night praying for anarchy.

          • JeffH

            You are a true threat to the security of this nation. Re read your rants traitor. I paid into my Medicare and am still paying for it. It is my choice, not the choice of Obama, Pelosi, Bachus or Reid or this government. I wasn’t forced or fined. It was my choice.
            Does anything that is going on in the government right now bother you in the least? You say gun control is a dead issue? Ha! You are truley delerious! You should crawl back in your hole you rodent!

          • denniso

            JeffH..your choice to pay into medicare?..not entirely…there would be no medicare for you to pay into w/o liberals and Dems in gov’t creating it.

          • DaveH

            Ah Eyes. You try so hard. But you still aren’t worth what they’re paying you. Harpy.

          • DaveH

            Denniso,
            Hush. Eyes has been trying for months to convince us that the Republicans created medicare. What kind of a friend are you?

          • JeffH

            denniso, now I am entirely confused. You and eyes need to huddle or cuddle and come to a common decision on this Medicare thing. And don’t get mad either.

          • Rod the Other

            Barack Obama on Gun Control :

            Hale DeMar, a 52-year-old Wilmette resident, was arrested and charged with misdemeanor violations for shooting, in the shoulder and leg, a burglar who broke into his home not once, but twice. Cook County prosecutors dropped all charges against DeMar.
            In March 2004, the Illinois Senate passed Senate Bill 2165, a law introduced in response to DeMar’s case, with provisions designed to assert a right of citizens to protect themselves against home invasions, such that self-defense requirements would be viewed to take precedence over local ordinances against handgun possession. The measure passed the Illinois Senate by a vote of 38-20. Barack Obama was one of the 20 state senators voting against the measure.

            Governor Rod Blagojevich vetoed the bill. On Nov. 9, 2004, the Illinois Senate voted 40-18 to override Blagojevich’s veto. Again, Obama acted against the bill.

            On Nov. 17, the Illinois House voted overwhelmingly, 85-30, to override the governor’s veto and Senate Bill 2165 became law.

            FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
            Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, “No, my writing wasn’t on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.”
            Actually, Obama’s writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

            35. Do you support state legislation to:
            a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
            b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
            c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

            Obama’s campaign said, “Sen. Obama didn’t fill out these state Senate questionnaires–a staffer did–and there are several answers that didn’t reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn’t reflect his views.”

            http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

            TRY AGAIN EYES…THE LIES AREN’T WORKING!

      • Michael J.

        EWO, try high crimes and misdemeanors

      • Michael J.

        Ewo, try high crimes and misdemeanors as an impeachable offense, I meant to say.
        Whoa! This reply posted so far from your relevant post, I had to hail a cab to get back.

  • Tom Hough

    I got a job on the border last winter as an archaeology monitor. I’d done surveys but never done monitoring before. When I got there I found that all I was there for was to watch people work. I was on an Indian Reservation and I had 2 Indians watching me so that I wouldn’t take artifacts. They were getting government money too to watch me watch people work. The fence was metal posts with a single rail. Depending on how high the rail was set the choice was do you crawl under or step over. The fence is great to slow down a major armour invasion but is an expensive waiste for what it is for. An electronic survellience system and properly placed towers and guard stations are still needed. The cost has been several million dollars a mile and probably needs as much spent per mile as what has already been spent for it to be effective.

    • Joe H.

      Tom,
      I hate to tell you, but the money for the entire fence has already been set aside. Pelousy and Dingy Harry have just been doing a good job of stopping the outlay of the moneys. Also I have seen pictures of the finished portions of the fence and it is nothing like what you describe.
      If we put the illegals to hard labor when they are caught and put them to work building the fence, how often do you think they are going to take the chance of being caught again? Like I said, put Joe Arapo out there with them and I guarantee it will be built and they WILL think twice before they re-offend!!!!

    • Rod the Other

      I support the wall in theory, but it really can’t work. We need to replace the wall with electronic sensors, guard post towers that are within direct-line sight of each other (maybe a mile apart), and armed military personel manning those towers that have the authority to shoot if they are threatened. Once they aprihend the border-jumpers they hand them over to border patrol for incarceration in hard labor camps….put them on lage treadmills and have them create electricity for the US citizens!

      • denniso

        RTO..
        I wonder, you’ve done such an excellent design job for your tower scenario,have you also worked out a rough cost estimate for your genius plan?? or does money not matter because it’s about ‘security’? Are you going to do the 3000 mile Canadian border too? Let’s see, maybe 4500 miles,a tower per mile = 4500 towers x 5 million/tower comes to about 23 billion $..then about 4 men(can women be part of your plan?)per tower = 20,000 men/women at $ 100,000/yr = about another 2 billion/yr..then we need roads and powerlines built to all these towers..my rough guess is 100 billion $ plus annual maintenance costs for those.
        We still need women/men on the ground between the towers and chasing the illegals around and carting them away to your hard labor camps. Another 20,000 at 100,000/yr( bennefits included),so another 2 billion/yr. Now for the costs of your prison camp(didn’t Hitler and Stalin do something similar?). Let’s guess that a prison camp or camps large enough to hold thousands of crossers and the staff to guard and feed and clothe them at maybe 50 billion construction cost and 5 billion/yr to operate. Grand total for your whiz plan?? a few hundred billion to build and tens of billions/yr to operate and maintain..not too bad, right? Uh oh, we still have a few thousand miles of coast line to do..I wonder, should we raise taxes or devalue our currency to afford this? Help!!

      • Rod the Other

        DENNISO did you indeterminate structions courses give you the mental capacity for that brilliant break down.

        YOUR A FOOL….$5mil per tower…what are you building vacation homes for your liberl congress people?

        A tower every mile…why would you build towers in the desert where no illegal seeks to cross?

        $23Billion??? that’s some good math from an ENGINEER!…aahh but what is over stating by a mere $500,000,000. It’s just tax dollars right?

        The state of California spends over $12,000,000,000 per year on Illegals. We could start there for a yearly budget and would be saving 10 times that once the cost is spread across all states?

        FOOL!

  • http://stenn150@mindspring.com Harold .O.Tennant

    Mexican Illealals are caught, sent back many times to no advail! They should be given hard labor, like, making small rocks out of large ones, after rwenty lashes with a knotted whip !
    Cut off ALL trade, prevent anyone from going into Mexico, for any reason !!!
    Many men and women gave thier lives defending this Country,
    and now, anyone can sneak in and live without fear, if caught, not punished,just sent back to Mexico or other places and keep on returning.
    My brother in Law Immigration Officer,drovr a bus that returned illeagals fron San Franisco, bact to the Border and put them back into Mexico. He said he had returned many of the same ones several times and some beat him back to San Fransico.

    • denniso

      Now that’s compassionate conservatism !!

      • Rod the Other

        If a thief breaks into your home and threatens you and/or your family you have every right to protect yourself, upto and including killing that intruder…Compassion has no place in this equation..And I don’t see what the difference is with ILLEGALS breaking into our country….THEY ARE PARASITES SUBVERTING AMERICAN SOVEIRGNTY.

        • denniso

          Rod the Otter,
          Just curious..didn’t we steal, at the point of a cannon,about 1/2 of Mexico 150yrs ago just because we wanted it and because it contains trillions of $$ in natural resources?? Is that theft or does it not matter because it happened before you were born??
          You really have a foul mouth that you’re directing at actual people.

          • Joe H.

            Denniso,
            Yes and the SPANISH stole it from the Incas and Indios before that. What’s your point? There is no such thing as a pure bred Mexican. They are a mixture of Spanish and Indian!

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…150 years ago Mexico had no claim to this land. Mexico didn’t even want it until they saw we did. Our Nation is older than Mexico by about 50+ years and we expanded into western territories because we saw opportunity in the west. Nothing was stole at cannon point.
            Take a look at what happened in Texas. The Mexican GOV invited Americans to settle the land. AND once they began to transfor it into a livable place the Mexican GOV decided they were going to confiscate everything they promised to the settlers….It just so happens that they got their butts handed to them for going back on their word!

            AND ILLEGALS ARE PARASITES. they come to this country to feed off of a host just like parasites….giving nothing and taking what they want and leaving waste in their wake!

          • Rod the Other

            JoeH…It makes me laugh when LATINOs talk in denegrating ways about the “evil Europeans” they are so ignorant that they have no idea that THEY ARE EUROPEAN as well. But what do you expect from a culture that does not embrace education and actually sees being more educated than your father to be an insult to him?

    • DaveH

      Harold,
      You should listen to the Liberals. They have the best idea of all. We should just trash our country so nobody wants to come here any more.

      • eyeswideopen

        Nay, Dave, all different types and parties are trying to prevent the few, like you, from trashing this country. Nobody wants anarchy.

        • DaveH

          Nope, they just want to be subjects, so that Harpies like you can dictate their every choice.

          • denniso

            DaveH..so everyone except you fine fellas wants to be a subject under an Obama dictatorship?? Dream,Dream,Dream!!

        • Rod the Other

          EYES…You have no idea how Anarchy applies to our country…Learn your history….Our founding Fathers would have preferred Anarchy over slavery.

          • denniso

            RTO…another joke? Our forefathers were of the aristocratic class, some of whom owned slaves..they would prefer anarchy?…amazingly mindless comment RTO,even for you!!

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO..I have no illusion that you would understand that…your a FOOL. Emotions matter more to you than facts.

            But I do have hope that EYES will do her research and learn the truth…your a lost cause.

          • DaveH

            Sorry Rod, I have to disagree. They are both lost causes.

          • Rod the Other

            Yeah..I would have to agree….I am trying to go through these posts sequentially, but curiousity got the better of me and I scrolled down to the bottom.
            EYES reason for her comments hit me like a thunder-bolt when I saw her quip on a post down below, “Could it be the white man syndrome”? It is crystal clear to me why she supports Obama now. Do you have any doubt?

        • Rod the Other

          EYES…Seriously, if you want to save this nation, as you portend then you need to step out of the partisan thinking and ask the scary questions. If we are wrong, then good, I hope we are. But what if we are right…Where will we be in 5 years?
          Please just do the research on the Copenhagen agreement and what it has instock for us….Please

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest John

    I think we need to come together and tell our congressman we want this Bum impeached from office. This is rediculous. we can’t keep letting them take all our rights. Unbelieveable!!!

    • denniso

      John,
      maybe you could list the rights that you are losing..I’ve not seen any
      rational discussion on what they may be.All we hear is the repetitious.’they’re taking all our rights’.

      • Joe H.

        I don’t know, how about the freedom to decide to carry health insurance if I don’t want to. And don’t give me the basic spew about how I’m forcing you to pay for my bills. I’ve carried insurance on cars, house,and health longer than you’ve been alive, because I wanted to.
        Eyes, you got down on Jeff about not defending this country. what war were you in? Did you shed blood?
        getting back to the freedoms…how about the freedom to say what I darn well please on the computer without O-man putting me on some list if I don’t agree with him? Want to tell me it doesn’t happen? Don’t even try! How about the freedom to decide where my charitable contributions go? I’m just supposed to be taxed to cover insurance for ALL whether or not I choose! I don’t mind covering the ones that truly can’t work as that’s just christian charity. It’s the ones that ARE able to work and choose not to that I gripe about. Could that be what bothers you about me? Are you two one of those in reality? Could it be that you DON’T have a degree and you don’t want to work and want us to cover you? See? I can turn your game around to you as easy as that!!!!!

        • JeffH

          Joe H., these fools can’t see it coming. They won’t even have the decency to say thanks because we had the foresight to take the battle to the Dems and Obama and stop him dead in his tracks. FOX, Limbaugh, Hannity and especially Beck are keeping us aware and informed, but it is people like you, and so many more of us that have to keep the torch of hope lit and keep fighting for America and freedom. Here is a wonderful informative website link you and others might look at if you haven’t already.
          http://www.myheritage.org/

        • denniso

          I’m impressed Joe H. !!!???

        • Joe H.

          Eyes,
          Eyes? Eyes?? Going to answer? Where did you serve? Did you bleed for your country? Don’t ask it of others if you haven’t!!!!

          • JeffH

            Joe H., eyes will always ignore the tough questions.

    • DaveH
    • DaveH
      • denniso

        DaveH,
        you can’t list your grievances?? I’m busy..I’m not going to a purely partisan site to boos their ad $ and waste my time. Give us you list..simple!!

        • denniso

          Uh oh, forgot how to spell..’boost’, and ‘your’.

        • eyeswideopen

          denniso, he only has a couple of mantras. Government is Force, hand in my pocket, too lazy to work, he only pushes the Libertarian party platform, and gives links to the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. He thinks if this country become libertarian, that overnight everything will be all right. Doesn’t or can’t explain how that would come about, but he really believes it. He can’t even come up with a reason why Ron Paul took 75 million in earmarks… tisk, tisk, tisk.

          • denniso

            Eyes, when I was more of a kid, I thought I was an anarchist, then maybe a libertarian. After more reading,thinking,talking,watching, I saw through the holes in those outdated and now silly and even childish philosophies. So it is possible for some of us to learn if we’re willing to stay open, which most of these people aren’t of course. Again, SAD!!

          • DaveH

            No, Denniso, it is much more mature to force your way on others. It is much more mature to take the money and property of others. The kind of maturity that rapists and thieves exhibit.

          • DaveH

            And your mantra is diverse? Give me a break EyesWideShut. You are just the board harpy who has nothing better to do than argue with anything freedom-lovers have to say.

          • denniso

            Sorry guys,but I’m a freedom lover too.The only difference is that I realize we need a degree of taxation and regulation and gov’t to keep a modern nuclear power civil and sane,as oppoed to letting the vilest and strongest(physically or economically)rule over everyone else. As a matter of fact I’m such a freedom lover that I’ve been self employed for all but a yr of my adult life. I bristle even under the control of a boss.

          • JeffH

            denniso, I beg to differ unless I missed something in your comments somewhere along the line. I can’t seem to find anything you say that would change my radical, brownshirt mind. LOL!

          • Joe H.

            Eyes,
            you and your crony here denniso come here and preach open mindedness yet I haven’t seen one thing that you have even considered or haven’t just blown off as stupid unless it’s something you state as fact. If the liberalites are so open minded, then why is it that if someone goes to a liberal site and expresses an opposing thought, they are banned or have their post wiped clean off the site. never mind foul language or name calling or what have you. It’s just for expressing an opposing thought!!!

          • libertytrain

            Joe H. you are so right – this site is so fair to all parties wanting to express an opinion – I am amazed – haven’t seen that on the leftist sites either –

          • DaveH

            Only those whose ideas have no legs need to resort to censorship.

          • libertytrain

            Dave H – seems that way – doesn’t it?

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, I spent about a week on MSNBC’s Newsvine. I stated my case, made no rude remarks about anyone else comments until I was viciously attacked by a few others. I retaliated and was immediatley dropped. I attempted to get back on and pled my case with examples but the moderator wouldn’t even give me the courtesy of a response.
            I learned then just how mean and ruthless the Obama camp is.

          • libertytrain

            JeffH – I grew up with and was only surrounded with Democrats – kind of a right-winged family. Very intense. What they proclaimed just didn’t always ring and true to me. And so I decided to go with what was right and true for me and listen to my own thoughts while still hearing what the others had/have to say. I’m not the favored person with my biological family but so be it. I can still love my family, just don’t have to agree with them on every point. MSNBC – well what else can you expect?

          • eyeswideopen

            Joe, then you can’t or won’t read. Which doesn’t bother me at all.

          • DaveH

            Has anyone on this board ever heard the Harpy Eyes say anything bad about Obama? Oh yeah, she has had lots to say about Bush, who last I checked was no longer our president.
            And she expects us to think she is anything but an Obama Apparatchik? Get real Eyes. Anybody who reads enough of your posts can figure out that you are nothing but a rabid Liberal.

      • JeffH
        • JeffH

          This should take you there and explain the Article of Impeachment.

          Resolved, that Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors, and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:https://fs7.formsite.com/C4Strategies/form272433077/secure_index.html

          • Rod the Other

            Couldn’t his signing of the Copenhagen agreement be grounds for impeachment? Afterall he is dissolving the power Constitution as the main instrument of our democracy by signing it…

  • Joe H.

    I don’t understand the thought process of the politicians. they tried to pass amnesty and their phones and mail EXPLODED!! over 80% of the people were against it, so how hard is it to understand we don’t want them here illegally??? I say we start the same thing again, and tell them that they will not be reelected if they don’t stop the influx!! Dry up the jobs for them by fining the EMPLOYERS!!! Make their pockets hurt!! Fine the Renters that don’t do a federal check before renting! Hard labor for the adult offenders and I would bet my income for a year that they will start self deporting!!!

    • JeffH

      Joe H., the thought process of our representatives has never been clearer that now. America has always been considered a leader of the free world. Americans have always cherished their freedom. Freedom in America has been eroding as more and more people become wholly dependent for governments support. This administration has taken advantage of the weakest and promised an “equal distribution” of wealth. Governmen runHealth Care is the “Feature Presentation” to our loss of freedom and a complete intrusive government takeover of our freedoms and our lives, and is uconstitutional. This administration intent is to ignore the Constitution as it only stands in the way of the goals of total government rule.
      Our only hope is to keep the pressure on our representatives and don’t give up. In the end, I hope that, we can all make a differance and make our forefathers proud of their accomplishments.
      God Bless America! May we rid our country of all traitors!

  • http://none Donna Hartley

    So you think the Gitmo detainees shouldn’t come here?You haven’t a clue yet.Our son was stationed there and they are ANIMALS.He was there when Ted Kennedy went to inspect the place.The army let him have a closeup look at the guys that were there.He came away and said not one word to the newspapers and came back very quietly.This is Jimmy “the flake” Carter and the Marielito Boatlift all over again, only worse.

    • American Citizen

      I was listening to a local talk show a few weeks ago. A man came on to say he was one of the original guards at Gitmo. He had to help escort them to Gitmo and then guard them there. He said the guards had to sleep on cots while the detainees had cushy beds. Those detainees live higher on the hog than a lot of citizens of this country do. They spit on the guards and throw feces at them. As you said, they are worse than animals. I wonder how long they would survive in one of our prisons.

      • JeffH

        How dare you make up lies about our enemy detainees and the way they treat the guards. Terrorists would never spit, curse or throw feces at Americans. NOT! LOL

  • Lynn

    Why don’t we round-up all the illegal aliens and get THEM to build the fence? Instead of chain-gangs, put them in chain-link fence gangs and build away! The labor would be free, we’d just have to pay for the materials.

    • American Citizen

      Or we could make them crocodile food. Build a moat all along the border and fill it with crocodiles and alligators. It would be a lot cheaper.

  • American Citizen

    This morning I got to thinking about the whole “birther” issue. I haven’t had a real conclusion on it, but something hit me about it. His mother was Kenyan and his father British and they lived in Kenya. Right so far? Now, either Obama was born in Kenya which makes him a citizen of that country, or if he was born in Hawaii, he was an “anchor baby”. I think it’s time they change the laws on that. If the parents are citizens of another country, no matter where the baby is born, it is also a citizen of its parents’ country. Only if the parents are citizens of this country should the baby be, too.

    • eyeswideopen

      American, I hate to burst your bubble, but his mother was born on Nov, 27,1942 in Wichita, Kansas. It is still part of the United States. She was not born in Kenya. You can go and search the records, but you probably won’t believe those either. Her mother had a feeling that she would have a daughter, who would grow up to be the mother of a president, so her mother had those records forged to show she was born in Kansas. LOL. But, your idea was very creative, and you did give me a good laugh.

      • denniso

        Eyes,
        good comment..now though they will say that both parents should have to be American citizens..this issue shouldn’t even come up anymore, but the Obama haters are irrational w/ hatred,unexplained, and will continue to attack him on literally everything and anything. SAD.

        • eyeswideopen

          Going to be a long four years. My husband thinks he should not run for re-election, get the country headed in right direction, and let the Repubs have it back, stand back and watch them totally destroy the whole system. He thinks that any party that was stupid enough to have tax cuts and then start two wars without repealing them deserves to have the reputation of idiots and go down in history being known as the party of bankruptcy. He is really upset with the greed and financial practices that were exhibited during the 12 years of Congressional control.If you look at our tax history, we have always had to increase taxes in order to pay for a war. Except these two, oh surprise, they weren’t paid for were they? You can’t get them to accept any accountablity for the situation, they want to blame Obama for everything. He should be the only President since Nixon, who can’t have czars etc. etc.. They also expected him to be able to change the entire corrupt system within 6 months. This reminds me of the McCarthy era.

          • Joe H.

            EYES,
            Let’s not forget the liberalites that put dairy farmer study money into the war funding bill along with other pork to stop funding for our troops by making Bush veto it just so they could say he didn’t care for the troops. Too bad it backfired on them and the public found out about all the pork they put in there!
            As far as his Czars, I don’t really care how many he has as long as they aren’t trying to do away with the constitution or aren’t communists. And don’t tell me that I’m typing myths now as I can back that up. As far as blaming things on the wrong guys, how about the libs blaming the Republicans for the poster of O-man as the joker? That little piece was created by a disgruntled libber who was disappointed with his pick for the dem party dropping out. Don’t throw stones if you don’t want to be hit by some as well!

          • DaveH

            My heart goes out to your husband.

          • denniso

            Eyes,
            Excellent comment! Your husband has a good point..it might have been better for Obama to have lost so the repubs would have to deal w/ what they started, especially the wars that Bush didn’t finish..two of the longest in our history.
            It does remind me of the McCarthy era as well..maybe these guys calling names could read up on it so they know who they are allied with?

          • eyeswideopen

            Dennis, they can’t comphrend anything other than, let’s take our country back.

          • denniso

            Eyes, you were up late working on these blowhards..impressive!!

          • Joe H.

            Eyes,
            Are you going to answer my question or not? Where did you serve and did you bleed for your nation?

      • American Citizen

        OK, I thought they said she was Kenyan. They lived in Kenya, maybe that’s why I thought I read she was Kenyan, because I do remember reading at the same time that his father was a British citizen. His parents were not the ones who said he was born in Hawaii, the Hawaiians relied on the word of his grandfather. It’ll be interesting to see how this all comes out.

    • JeffH

      This is something I found on the internet. Whether valid or not, It should clear up any questions regarding the birth certificate issue.

      There is even a copy of his Kenya birth certificate. Real or Fake? We will find out the truth once and for all.
      Shocker! Judge orders trial on eligibility issue
      Arguments planned Jan. 11 for challenge to Obama
      http://americangrandjury.org/c…..ertificate
      A California judge today tentatively scheduled a trial for Jan. 26, 2010, for a case that challenges Barack Obama’s eligibility to be president based on questions over his qualifications under the requirements of the U.S. Constitution.
      The two U.S. Attorneys representing Barack Obama tried everything they could to sway the judge that this case was frivolous, but Carter would have none of it and cut them off several times. Obama’s attorneys left the courtroom after about the 90 minute hearing looking defeated and nervous.
      Great day in America for the U.S. Constitution!!! The truth about Barack Obama’s eligibility will be known fairly soon – Judge Carter practically guaranteed it!

      • DaveH

        Don’t get too hopeful Jeff, worms are very slippery.

        • JeffH

          DaveH, I’m sure you know this isn’t for you or for me. Never has been an issue to me. I guess I could only hope though.

        • eyeswideopen

          What you gonna do, when they say he is legal citizen?? Look for 100 more judges? You are too funny.

          • JeffH

            And you are too stupid to understand why I posted the link or made the comments I made. Read and understand! I gues it wasn’t simple enough for a simpleton!

          • DaveH

            No Jeff, she isn’t stupid, she’s just a harpy.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dittohead, how’s it going for you the ulitmate name caller? Hope it is good.

          • DaveH

            Harpy!

      • Michael J.

        JeffH, read a little further, this is not what it appears to be. It turns out that Judge Carter is in Obama’s pocket and this is just another smoke screen in an effort to put this issue and the sheeple to sleep.
        On a similar note, it has been rumored that Supreme Court Judge David Souter retired/resigned as a result of the courts unwillingness to hear any of the several birth certificate cases pertaining to Obama that have been put in front of them.

        • JeffH
        • JeffH

          http://www.ocweekly.com/bestof/2008/award/best-judge-256719/

          David O. Carter
          Of the dozens of judges in Orange County, Carter stands in a class by himself. Perhaps that’s why the former U.S. Marine (battle-tested against communist Vietnamese forces in Khe Sanh), prosecutor, municipal judge and Superior Court judge now serves as a federal judge sitting in the Ronald Reagan Courthouse in Santa Ana. There really isn’t any other judge like Carter. He’s tough on crime and bad lawyering. Sit in his courtroom, fittingly plush and patriotic, and you’ll observe a man, grandfatherly in tone, who could treat defendants like items on a conveyor belt, but instead displays genuine interest in helping folks return to society as good citizens. He’s no legal slouch, either. It’s not a coincidence that Southern California’s most complex criminal cases—the Aryan Brotherhood and Mexican Mafia trials, for example—land in his courtroom

        • JeffH

          Well it’s over Johnny. The birthers are finished, back to business as usual. Here is the statement directly from Judge Carters ruling and you will find it on Page 26

          “Plaintiffs appear to assume that should the Court receive a document from Kenya, the Court would give credence to this document over the American birth records of the President and the case would be resolved. Even should the Court permit the issuance of a letter rogatory to Kenya, the Court would still engage in a comparative exercise in which the records of America, which has historically maintained some of the most credible recordkeeping practices in the world, would be contrasted with the credibility of the records obtained from Kenya. Such an analysis would seemingly favor the records of the United States”.

        • eyeswideopen

          Michael, it’s ok, you can keep trying to find a judge who will hear the case. But you are trying to swim agaisnt the state of Hawaii and the judicial system of the U.S. which will always protect our documentation versus anyone else’s.

  • Wayne Keel – V Vet

    Acorn falsified voter registration numbers(Mickey Mouse), Valerie Jarrett had “her eyes on Van Jones”, the STORM revolutionary self proclaimed commie, Jeff Jones and Bill Ayers- Weather Underground radicals who tried to blow up Pentagon and “welcomed home Vietnam Vets” calling us baby killers among other things. I’m sure Nancy Plussi was there with Hanoi Jane after she came back from Nam-North!! Al Gore was such a danger that he was given a camera instead of a gun so he wouldn’t shoot OUR troops, Kerry lied about his service and denounced America by throwing away his ribbons, Clinton was in Russia, but he never inhaled! Jimmy Carter still doesn’t know where he is – I thought he was dead, JFK/RFK sent us to Nam while taking turns on Marilyn, LBJ-what war,he thought we were just over there to sell arms and try out new technology! What do they need Body Bags for? Oh, I know, I bet our boys sleep in them when it rains in the bush. Keeps ‘em dry.
    Now for our greatest excuse for a president, Osama? I didn’t mean that, you know I meant BHobama. Where do I start? I must say that I was really impressed with this guy until he got elected and showed his true COLORS. Honestly, if I had voted,(got stuck out of state during the election), I may have voted for the guy, because the Black race is a good, God fearing bunch of people that have been screwed over just like God’s chosen people-the Jews. The demoncrats have used this race issue to cram everything they can down our throats and up our (word removed). I can’t remember all of it, so let me start off with all the commies as czars he got out of prison, out of exile, or where ever they surfaced from. I thought it was a list of the FBI’s “Most Wanted”. Then he sent stimulus checks to 5000 of his buds in prison, but they deserved compensation, because sorry (word removed) BUSH probably sent them there, because they were terrorist or some other minor excuse. Then 789 billion to unions, planned abortion, condoms, government mobs-I meant jobs, hell, I can’t remember what it was for, but it hasn’t worked for the purpose they gave for it. You social liberalist correct me when I’m done, because I’m not much on ‘political correctness’ or the order which all this BS came out, all I know is we were overloaded with cap and trade, Government Motors, Freddie Mac and Freddie Mae, cash for clunkers, cash for Hamas to come to America, closing Gitmo, prosecuting CIA, condemning Zelaya’s (word removed)whipping in Honduras, praising Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, on his knees to Russia, denouncing America to the worthless UN, accepting the Nobel (word removed) Prize, taking flight after flight on AF1 and AF2, giving Algore 549 million to build $90k cars in Finland, Global Warming-I mean climate change to shutdown our economy, having the racist Rev.Wright, in the White House after all that “GD America”, he should change his name to Rev. Left, and all this time still trying to shove Government Death Care up our (word removed) without any KY or a glove. It’s odd that they called our great Vietnam Veterans “baby Killers” and now it’s abortion on demand. All of the politicians need to go, but the liberal Democrats need to go to jail for being traitors to what’s left of our country. But what do I know, I never took Socialism or Communism classes in college, because I took American History and Government. I remember something about going to Vietnam for a reason that got lost while we were over there. That must be why we never fit in when we came home. It was just a bad dream. I suppose I’m completely wrong about Obama and he’s trying to indoctrinate us just like Charlie did the South when we left them hanging. I sure hope they don’t waterboard us. That would be against the UN Convention and the old Geneva BS. I would file charges against the government and I’m sure they would give us veterans compensation just like the terrorist will get. I’m sure glad to get all that off my mind, hell, I may even qualify for a pardon. I’ve been HEALED!! Went from a radical right winger all the way over to liberal communist loving traitor just like my HERO I’ve been badmouthing all this time. I’ve actually learned how to babble and talk out of my (word removed) just like they do with no idea what I’m talking about!

    • JeffH

      Wayne Keel – V Vet, I just want to say THANK YOU for your service and THANK YOU for your comments. I myself, was classified 1-H on June 2, 1969 and wasn’t drafted, although would have been if there were a national emergency. I saw many friends and a brother go to Nam, but few came back. Your comments do hit close to home, and I think most of your words represent the mindset of the majority on this site.
      There is nothing I can put into words that you haven’t, so out of respect, I won’t. Thank you Wayne Keel – V Vet and GOD BLESS AMERICA in what may end up it’s darkest hour.

    • DaveH

      Wayne,
      you are going to wish you were back in Vietnam when EyesWideShut comes back.

    • denniso

      Too long to read and looks like a rant.Pointless!

    • jbram

      hey Keel, thats was cool. I laugh my ass off. Sounds like eyeswideshut is blind in one eye and just can’t see out the other one!

    • eyeswideopen

      Pointless ranting, shows how damaging war can be. Did you ask those you were serving with if they were Democrats? Just wondered. Or did you just become a radical lately, say about the time a different type of president was elected?

      • Joe H.

        Eyes? Eyes?……Chirp, ….Chirp ….Chirp!!!

        • eyeswideopen

          Dittohead, dittohead.

          • libertytrain

            Oh yes, that’s impressive for such a smart lady -

          • denniso

            Eyes, you’ve got to see the moronic comment by RTO..CHILDISH !! it’s about 1/3 down from the top. Maybe he is actually in the 7th grade !

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…If I was in the seventh grade, wouldn’t that be a testimony to the power of your intellect that a 12 year old could beat you with FACT on EVERY point you’ve made.

    • eyeswideopen

      Keel, when Nixon was breaking the law, were you going to take up arms against him? Where were all of you righteous warriors then?

      • denniso

        Eyes,good again. You have to think there is some latent or outright racism in their hatred..because you’re correct that when J. Edgar Hoover was doing the evil work for Nixon none of these sorts were on the warpath for the head of either. We were losing civil liberties in very serious ways and the tough guys were silent as baby sheep..could it have had anything to do w/ party affiliation??just as under Bush??

        • JeffH

          denniso, it is you that is the racist. Getting real old with you comments like: “Eyes,good again. You have to think there is some latent or outright racism in their hatred”.

          Polly want a cracker?

          • DaveH

            Jeff,
            More like Baa a a, Baa a a. Or is it Oink, Oink, where is that trough?

          • denniso

            JeffH..you could answer the question..Did you direct such hatred and animosity toward Bush when he was pulling civil liberties out from under you and listening in on your phone calls?? Did you talk about taking back your country?? Did you join the movement to impeach Bush??
            I think I know the answer…

          • JeffH

            denniso, I repeat “Polly want a cracker”? There is no reason for me to explain my thoughts from the last 8 years, although I’m sure you will. Oops! You have been spouting about the past since you arrived on site. BAAA BAAA BAAA

          • eyeswideopen

            Hey, I just had a thought, maybe you weren’t rejected, maybe you ran to Canada to avoid serving. You sure did know alot about Canada during our previous discussions about healthcare. Yeah, that’ what happened you are a draft dodger!! Now I know why you want to take up arms and assault the government, you now have the gonads to serve. lol

          • JeffH

            eyes, actually, I have never said I knew anything about Canada on any posts. YOU LIED! Although, I hear that Montreal is chilly this time of year.

        • DaveH

          It’s been my lifelong observation that the people who accuse others are more guilty of the accusation than are their accused.
          And I haven’t been disappointed by the Liberals who accuse anyone who dislikes Obama’s politics as being ‘rasist’. Yet over 90% of the black people who voted cast their vote for Obama. Are that many blacks Liberal or were they being prejudiced?
          I guess Thomas Sowell is a racist too. Oh, wait a minute, he’s black.
          http://gunowners.org/sowell.htm

          • denniso

            Would you agree there are racists in the world? If you then tell a racist that she/he is racist, then you actually believe that you are more of a racist than the actual racist? PLEASE!! You guys are aping the whole extreme right wing w/ your vitriol toward Obama..all saying the same things. I’m wondering if there isn’t a racist undertone that all of you pick up on whether you are specifically racist or not. So I’m talking about the comments comming from you that seem to have no rational basis otherwise.

          • DaveH

            Unlike you Liberals, I pay attention to people’s actions much more than their words. Talk is cheap. That’s why Big Government doesn’t work.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, that libertarian is the only black you ever refer too. Bet he is the only one you know of. lol.

          • eyeswideopen

            Bryan Caplan a Libertarian economist: ” IN A MODERN DEMOCRACY NOT ONLY CAN A LIBERTARIAN BE AN ELITIST, A LIBERTARIAN HAS TO BE ELITIST. TO BE A LIBERTARIAN IN A MODERN DEMOCRACY IS TO SAY THAT NEARLY 300 MILLION ARE WRONG AND A HANDFUL OF NAY-SAYERS ARE RIGHT”

            Dave, you fit the elitist profile to a tee.

          • DaveH

            Polly want a cracker?

      • Rod the Other

        EYES…Do you care to elaborate on how Nixon was breaking the law?

        • denniso

          RTO, that’s a joke question,right??

          • Rod the Other

            Not in the least…Lets see how much you think you know about the evil deeds that only Repubs engage in.

          • denniso

            RTO,Ayone who doesn’t know what Nixon did to break the law better do some research on his own..historical fact that no one who doesn’t have a built in bias argues against for the past 30 or so yrs.Google!

          • Rod the Other

            DENNiSO-THE-GRAND DECIDER…I have made NO argument here or even offered any refutaion. I simply asked for elaboration on the claim…What’s the matter all-knowing D-T-G-D are you affraid to put your foot in your mouth? THIS IS A FIRST…your actually taking caution before you BLAB something out.

            GO ahead D-T-G-D spew your vitriol once again!

    • Joe H.

      Wayne Keel-V.Vet,
      We not only left the south hanging we left the ‘yards and the Hmong too. both helped us a lot, some with nothing but crossbows, but oh, what crossbows they were. They say time heals all wounds but that’s one I don’t think will ever heal. God Bless Brother!!!

  • Joe H.

    Hey Keel,
    Welcome back brother! 18 months my self in that garden paradise!!! I’m not fond o’ fonda myself!!! Nix on Nixon too!!!

  • Joe H.

    Denniso,
    If it’s racist to be against O-man then what is it when the blacks that voted for him are jumping ship daily? I suppose they are racist too? Go back to Huff and Toke and tell them to give you some new material cause this is worn out. It IS huff and Toke, cause the libbers HAVE to be high to believe the stuff they are spewing!!!

    • denniso

      I never said it is racist to be against Obama..racism may explain the extreme hatred and name calling directed at him though. We have the right to support or not any official we like..this stuff from you people is way beyond that..hatred and demonizing so intense that some kook w/ a gun might act on it. That’s way over the line of democratic process.

      • JeffH

        denniso, you, on many occasions have said many times that comments against Obama must be racist. The fact that some of us don’t like his agenda isn’t good enough for you. The fact is that with all of the facts laid out, it way to much for your twisted mind to comprehend. You, as are your libby buddies, are too stuck with your HATE of Bush and Republicans that you are like a deer in the headlights, blind. If you want government to control every facet of your life, then so be it. I like my freedom, so I will fight this Marxist to the end, and I know I am not alone in this fight.

      • DaveH

        Yeah, “some kook w/ a gun might act on it”. Maybe like the Russian Socialists did under Stalin. Or maybe like the Chinese Socialists did under Mao. Or maybe like the Cubans did under Castro.

        • eyeswideopen

          Dave, and you were worried about your little commentator Glenn? Why because nut case might kill him like you stated? You can see the harm in someone hurting him, but can’t admit that your rhetoric could cause harm to the PRESIDENT? Hypocrites rule!!!

        • DaveH

          You do not rule anybody!

          • DaveH

            Well, maybe your husband. Poor guy.

      • libertytrain

        denniso – I guess, based on your comment, that racism may explain the extreme hatred and name calling directed at George W. The balance of your comment reminds me of what it was like to read anything published, spoken about, seen on most TV channels, and chats with the more left population during George W’s terms. Always seemed way over the line of democratic process to me as well. But of course, you will surely beg to differ because it was W.

        • Joe H.

          Hey libertytrain,
          I guess by his train of thought, the comments of the liberalites was what caused Reagan’s getting shot at? What a load of putrid aged crapola!

          • libertytrain

            Joe H – probably.

          • denniso

            Joe H…Reagan’s shooter was just mentally ill..sad. Martin Luther King was demonized by the extreme right wing for yrs..then he was killed…Malcom X, same thing…Medgar evans, same thing. When enough people turn a leader into a demonized villain,like on this site,there are thousands of loose screwballs out there w/ bombs and guns who might decide to act on the hate spewed.

          • JeffH

            denniso, nobody has said there aren’t troubled, bad or misguided people in this world. I never believed the assasinations of JFK and RFK were the work of just one man, they had plenty of enemies inside and outside of our government. MLK’s assasination was every bit a travesty as any presidential assasinations as are the killings by any racist groups agains people of color. You hold a very deep resentment, and are too quick to pull the trigger on your accusations. You make unfounded assumptions. Look back through your posts, you have a wild imagination and must be fearful to just leave your home. It is people like yourself that concern me because you are more likely to react at what you percieve as real rather than what is actualy real. “You have nothing to fear but fear itself.”

        • denniso

          LibertyT..you don’t remember? Until Bush screwed up absolutely EVERYTHING, the media and most Dems gave him a free pass..especially after 9/11 and the 1st 2 or 3 yrs.The anti Bush people were livid at the mainstream media for coddling him for so long.
          This economic collapse is a bit like a 9/11 event, and instead of the repubs comming together to support the prez and help get the country going again so that everyone can benefit, they’re obstructing and making things worse..branding Obama and liberals as a fascist, communist.,socialist tyrant

          • libertytrain

            denniso – my experience with the left/and many Democrats, is their memory tends to be incredibly selective; they tend to be followers; – tend to be far more rude and egotistical; tend to be arrogant in their assumption that only they know the correct anything. Tend to consider themselves far more intelligent than just about anyone, particularly if someone does not see eye-to-eye; and tend to mock people in a smirking manner and assorted other things — But that’s just been my experience and continues to be each day. Seldom have I come across one who actually could converse without a verbal assault on my or whomever they are talking with’s intelligence because I/they chose to not hold the same opinion.

          • JeffH

            We only call it as WE SEE IT!

          • eyeswideopen

            Liberty, using your logic, when we had a democrat President who was under going the impeachment process, where were the signs, hating, and radical views then? A racist will never admit they are one, as the stigma is something even a racist doesn’t want hung around their necks. Where were all the indigant Constitutional watchers at that time? I guess the sign makers were on vacation.

          • libertytrain

            eyes, yes they were probably down in Florida on holiday.

          • Rod the Other

            EYES…You know plenty about that RACISM…I quote from EYES, “Could it be the white man syndrome”? I guess you know your subject matter on that one!

          • Rod the Other

            score one for LIBERTYTRAIN!!!

          • denniso

            Liberty,
            Almost everyone has a degree of selective memory, remembering what we want and trying to forget what we don’t like..very human.
            Liberals/Dems as followers?? The Dems are made up of so many different groups w/ diff agendas that they fall apart after almost every election, unlike the Repubs who are much more homogeneous. One example…many Dems and liberals split off in ’00 and ’04 into the Green party and gave the presidency to Bush both times.
            It’s true that liberals might use smirks and mocking in debate w/ Repubs,because they don’t want to respond in kind to the smears and hate and mean spirited name calling that many Repubs engage in. I have much first hand experience w/ precisely that..trying to argue on principle and being yelled at in return. Keep your mind open on this question.

          • libertytrain

            denniso – you too need to keep an open mind. I related my own plentiful experiences with the more “left” – I’m pretty sure that you have not been around me during my lifetime to have shared my life experiences so do not understand how you can really do much questioning re my own personal experiences. I certainly could not with your lifetime experiences. I come from an intensely Democrat/left group of people and surrounded by (and still am surrounded by same) my entire, probably longer than yours, life – therein, I feel quite comfortable making my own evaluations.

          • Rod the Other

            in respect to your about post, the BIG differnce in the Repubs & the LIBs is that the libs may be made up of many different special interest groups, but they are ALL familiar of “do it for the good of the COLLECTIVE”. The Repubs on the other are much more ardent in standing by their principles and act as individuals. It is why those Repub politician-whores have paid for it in the 06′ & 08′ elections.

            And the “he did it first” arguement is old. If your so superior, lead us from the muck, stand above the fray. Your an AGITATOR and it’s why I’ve lost my civility with you DENNISO, you began the name calling, and ridicule of me FAR before I stepped down to your level. You started it in the first post that you became aware of another poster on this site named “Rod the Other”. We hadn’t even had a single exchange and you were denegrating me based on info from EYES.

          • JeffH

            denniso, I am reaching out to you in a civil manner because you obviously have disregarded the background and history of Obama. The Obama agenda is a scary agenda to those of us that are aware. He does intend to bring America down to it’s knees. You have your beliefs and that is your choice. I know through you comments that you think all of the warnings on the internet are just put there by people that hate Obama because he is black. Did it ever occur to you that not everyone that disagrees with Obama’s agenda and policies aren’t racist and don’t hate? That is not how you interpret it, but it is a fact. Maybe they just love America and freedom and are scared s***less of this guy and who he represents. Sure, there are serious changes needed to our whole political structure, based on the free spending by government and the ability of lobbyists to buy legislators from the Republican and Democratic parties to do their bidding. It just so happens that Americans are tired of the way government ignores them and Obama just happened to be the president who wants to make “fundamental changes to America”. We all voted for change, just not Obamas type of change. This man has decieved you also.
            http://www.cc.org/print/975
            http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/obamas_agenda_its_the_spending.html

        • Rod the Other

          Well done LIBERTYTRAIN!!!

  • JeffH

    denisso and I quote:
    denniso says:
    November 2, 2009 at 8:18 am
    Eyes,good again. You have to think there is some latent or outright racism in their hatred..

    • JeffH

      Once again: denniso says:
      November 2, 2009 at 1:09 pm
      “You guys are aping the whole extreme right wing w/ your vitriol toward Obama..all saying the same things. I’m wondering if there isn’t a racist undertone that all of you pick up on whether you are specifically racist or not. So I’m talking about the comments comming from you that seem to have no rational basis otherwise.”

    • DaveH

      It’s like debating with children. With no facts to present they must resort to fabrications and innuendos.

      • eyeswideopen

        Dittohead, haven’t heard your mantra yet…..here I’ll do it for you. Government is force. You seem to forget that the people are the government.

      • DaveH

        Here is an example from Eyes Comments:

        “Dave, you truly are an idiot, Last time any of us had to buy health insurance, we had to purchase from a monopoly.”

        “We only have the choice of two major health insurance companies”

        This is why you are irrelevant on this board Eyes. You can’t seem to get your story straight. Some might call it lying.

  • Joe H.

    Denniso
    “Way over the line of democratic process.” Now YOU look to determine what is democratic process. How magnanimous of you!!! I seem to remember a tale about Lincoln and his adversary when he ran for President of this country. The normal litany was to see if his adversary could cut him down further and further. It was all to no avail as Lincoln just kept turning it all around on him!!!! So unless those times were BEFORE democratic process, then I guess it isn’t beyond the boundaries is it? If a kook was going to do as you say, it wouldn’t necessarily be brought on by anything anyone said about him, it would be his propensity to kill that would initiate it. He would be a sick minded individual!!

    • eyeswideopen

      Joe, you can’t look back at history, Dave, Jeff, and the many, won’t let you. Have you lost your mind? Oh, that’s right your side can do anything they want. lol funny, you dittoheads are funny.

      • DaveH

        You’re pathetic.

      • JeffH

        A classic TROLL! Traitorous TROLL at that.

  • Joe H.

    Let me leave you with a few words tonight as I have to be abed!!!
    Blowhard, racist, moron, radical, war like ranting, sad, dittohead, drug user, elitist, off the wall, blind, right wingnuts, brownshirt dittohead, brownshirts, leaders of the Reich, traitor, 60 something wanna be, hooligans, idiot and slave.
    These are just some of the names and insults you and eyes have hurled at people on just this thread. Yet, you and eyes accuse others of name calling. As a Viet Nam Vet, if you called me a few of those names to my face, the outcome would be quite different from what it would be here. Names like traitor, brownshirt and leader of the Reich would not set well with me. It would do you well not to use them with anyone when you can’t hide behind an anonymous screen name! Just a word to the supposedly wise!!

    • JeffH

      Joe H., it has been a pleasure to read your comments. I can tell you are a man that carries his head high and looks straight in the eyes of those you speak with. I have deep respect for you and your service, as I had a brother and many friends that served also. I wasn’t drafted on June 2, 1969, but I am a volunteer in the fight to preserve our freedom.

    • denniso

      Joe H…Haven’t you and your buddies called Obama and ‘his people’,traitors?

      • JeffH

        I Think we all call it like we see it! What differance would it make anyway? Are you the Obama watch commander?

      • Joe H.

        Dennio,
        where did he or ,for that matter, you serve this country? Like I asked Eyes, did you bleed for your country? Did He? He has no problem legitimizing the war in Afghanistan and our troops dying!!!

        • eyeswideopen

          Joe, yea, I have bleed plenty. I lost my first Husband and a Son. One to each war. Desert Storm and Iraq. I have given enough for you and your disrespectful buddies. I am tired of these wars, and I never thought I would live to see the day, that those who started these useless wars were not held accountable. How soon you forget how we got to this mess in the first place. My son was killed because his chest protector was faulty. Why? because we sent our kids over there with bad equipment. Screw all of you, I am finished with a bunch of non serving hypocrites who are so narrow minded that they can see no other point of view but their own. Guess what, this country belongs to everyone, not just the radical right and the libertarians. You can’t even admit that even Democrats served this country. My son was a Democrat, he was tired of the brutal polices of the Bush admin, out of control spending and their elitist attitude so prior to enlisting he changed his party. So guess what to all you non serving big mouths, yes my son died for your right to be a radical. See ya.

          • DaveH

            Is the Harpy really flying away? We will miss you. Not!

          • libertytrain

            eyes, your son died for all of our rights and your right to think radical left, right, in between whatever – And I hate that our kids die on a daily basis. I have two in Afghanistan right now — It is difficult for many of us, for many different reasons. Gosh I know my two in Afghanistan voted for Obama as well — that whole “change” thing –but they didn’t have a problem with me not choosing to vote for him — and they are not able to tell me their current opinions – so I have no idea what they are thinking now.

          • Joe H.

            Eyes,
            If what you say is true then I regret any pain I have caused you. I honor your son and his sacrifice to this country and just as important, to me and mine. I think you need to understand where I come from. I lost friends there and RVN as well. My nephew just got back two months ago. A purple and a Bronze lucky to be alive. I won’t bother you any more as I would never cause a vets widow or a vets surviving mother any grief!!!!

          • Rod the Other

            EYES…My condolences for your loss.

          • denniso

            Eyes, I’m very sorry for your losses. I can’t even imagine losing my daughter..it’s terrible. Especially in a senseless war like Iraq. My deepest condolences. Fighting w/ some of these people may be pointless,but I hope you don’t give up the fight in general.

          • JeffH

            I echo the comments of Libertytrain. Unfortunatly your pain shows with your hate for the Republicans and Bush and you take it out on those you don’t agree with.

          • Michael J.

            My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones in the line of duty serving in the armed forces of the United States over the last 200 plus years of it’s existence. I myself and my ancestors as well as many of you have endured the loss of family members going back all the way to the Revolutionary War of Indepedence whose thoughts were of duty, honor and country so that we may all remain free and experience the American dream in a manor in which we see fit. In a manor in which we all have earned.
            Equipment however, makes not the differance. My Irish ancestors went into battle naked, no chest protectors. The point is this, “War is Hell” and war should be Hell. Scary, bloody and relentless we should be in the face of our enemies. It is because of liberal intervention in the conflicts of the last four decades that we have seen increased numbers of wars and increased numbers of casualties of war. As a matter of fact, if Bush was allowed to prosecute the last Iraq war, WWII style it would have been over more quickly and with less loss of life on all sides. It is for these reasons that the blood of the Iraqi and allied war dead stains the hands of the war protestors who by their actions and deeds emboldened our enemies to fight on in the hopes that American will to win was whithering.
            Human rights should be adhered to as per the provisions set forth in Geneva Switzerland so long ago. So why would anyone want to put a kinder, more gentle face on war when brutality in war is the best detante?
            Liberals seek to distort the Geneva Convention the same way as they misread or nonread the Constitution. Don’t they get it? If our oponents do not fear us, they will attack us. I know that’s a hard concept for these perfect worlder’s to grasp but never the less, it’s the task that we are burdened with.
            In closing I’ll say that if Henry were alive today he would not be fonda Jane for her treasonist activism in the Vietnam war.

    • denniso

      Joe H…is that a thinly veiled threat of violence against two people you disagree with??Does this site condone threats??

      • JeffH

        denniso,You wouldn’t have the cahones to look a man in the eye and respond as you do, without getting dropped!

        • eyeswideopen

          Don’t worry, denniso, he was a draft doger, went to Canada. LOL

          • JeffH

            Baaa Baaa Baaa TROLL!

      • Joe H.

        Denniso,
        I don’t make threats. You may take it that way and it’s your right. It was advise to the supposedly wise, just like it said!

    • eyeswideopen

      Joe, you can kiss my butt, I am a Vet, a woman, and a Republican and have been called every name they can think of. You and this group, just cannot have a civil discussion, every time you don’t have an answer, the name calling starts. I really don’t care about being civil anymore, so I have joined in the process that is employed by the radical right. Name call, make fun of, and degrade. Hey it works for all of you. lmao

      • Joe H.

        Eyes,
        you are a vet AND a republican? I doubt it lady! Where did you serve? What unit? what MOS? What Battles did you contribute to? What rank did you achieve? Answer soon so I know you aren’t googleing it!!

        • eyeswideopen

          Served with 12th Tactical Fighter Wing at Cam Ranh from Sept 68 till March 1970 when it was deactivated and turned over to Military Airlift Control. We had F-4C’s on site. Air force, Airman 1st class. No action, logistic support. But I can shoot better than most men. Serving allowed me to get college education. Any other questions? And you? Did you notice not one person questioned you or your statement of serving. Could it be the white man syndrome?

          • Joe H.

            Eyes,
            I believe I gave my stats earlier but if not 114 assault helicopter co. (Red knights) Vinh Long Viet Nam. Mos 67N2F, Door gunner/ Crewchief. Just shy of 18 months RVN, and just shy of 8 years total service – active. Also went to college on the GI bill. Spent quite a lot of time around Cam Ranh Bay myself from time to time. Do you remember the base commanders Air conditioner that was stolen and never found? Wasn’t me but I do know the guy that did it. That was right before you left so you should remember it. The guy was P.O.d because he didn’t have air in his hooch so he figured the commander shouldn’t either.
            I also saw two Bob Hope shows too. Best entertainment over there.

          • Rod the Other

            EYES….”Could it be the white man syndrome?” I take from your comment your comfortable with your RACISM and have no problem trashing others with it.
            I find it very hypocritical for you to ever call someone on perceived RACISM.

            I take great offense at how casually you throw that comment out there. It has tainted my perception of you and will forever more see you as nothing more than a RACE-BATER!

          • denniso

            Guys, back off..I thought you were going to treat Eyes w/ more respect after she told you about her very personal losses? As men, don’t you have any sense of ethics and civility toward a woman who has experienced losses like she has?

          • JeffH

            denniso, back off you yellow spined twerp! If you want respect then you gotta give it. Something you wouldn’t know about.

          • Rod the Other

            DENNISO…YOU BACK OFF. I truely feel bad for EYES loss and do not take them lightly. BUT, that does not earn ANYONE a pass, NOT EVEN A LIBERAL PASS to spout RACISM, SEXISM, AND HATE. I will call this out whenever and wherever I see it. NO ONE SHOULD STAND FOR THE DENOGRATION OF OTHER BASED ON RACE, GENDER, SEXUALLITY, RELIGION..ETC,…IT IS UGLY IN ALL FORMS!

            I find your plead typically LIBERAL though…You know “PREACHING” LIBs are the most “tolerant, open-minded, free-thinking, people”…”we love everyone”… “It’s the basic defintion of the word liberal”….What pablum! I haven’t seen you call EYES on her RACIST / SEXIST comment yet DENNISO. Is that because you support it, or you just don’t hold your own minions to any standards? TYPICAL LIBERAL INTOLERANT BIGOTRY!

          • JeffH

            You stated you “could shoot better than most men”! Are you now threatening men who don’t agree with you? Are you advocating gun violence against authority? These examples are exactly the types or questions you put to others. I’m sure these questions make your red hair bristle when asked. You need to regroup and put some thought into your whole approach of participation here. In other words, stop putting words in others mouths, don’t make assumptions on others thoughts, and quit taking the criticism of Obama personaly. Feel free to g back to denniso’s initial comments:
            denniso says:
            October 30, 2009 at 10:57 am
            Dearest jeffH,
            can’t you please try harder,though I know it’s difficult for you, to do more than just call people names..it doesn’t bother me,because you’re saying absolutely NOTHING when all you do is utter smears and near profanities. But for you and your comrades sakes you might actually accomplish something near literate that won’t have others laughing at you. Try it, you might enjoy it and learn something, like thinking!!
            There were no personal attcks on commentors up to this point!
            What is good for the goose is good for the gander!

          • denniso

            RTO, Thanks for making me more powerful than even i thought i was..i didn’t know that i had any ‘minions’. Pretty cool!!

          • Rod the Other

            … Are you going to share that with your buddies over a game of Dungeons & Dragons?

      • Joe H.

        Eyes,
        I don’t think I called you a name at all. If I am wrong and you can point it out to me, I will apologize, here in front of all. I did call you lady as I remember, if that was an insult I won’t use it on you again. Sorry. I simply pointed out the names you and Denniso have used on others and then complained about OTHERS calling names. Seems kinda pot, kettle, black, doesn’t it? As far as the vet matter, you were the one that started that by questioning someones service to this country, which a vet does not like to see, another reason it is hard for me to believe you are a vet. With the amount of slur against the repubs and the amount of agreement with the dems it is therefore also hard to believe you are a republican. See, I told the Republican national committee that I would not send them a donation until they got back to their conservative roots. I would never support a Democrat without that at least. I wouldn’t support any other as they have exactly zero chance of winning and that would make my vote a default vote for the Dems! Now if you want me to believe you are a vet, prove it and if not I will continue to call you on it each and every time you question a persons service to the U.S.A.

      • DaveH

        Uggh. That presents an ugly image in my mind. Please, I’m trying to eat dinner.

  • Joe H.

    Thanks JeffH!

  • Joe H.

    I’m gone for awhile guys. I left eyes and Denniso a few choice posts to ponder but I doubt they will go back through their comments to find them. Their closed minds and eyes will prevent that!

    • denniso

      Joe H…I’m slowly going thru comments..I have a job and a 9 yr old daughter and sleep to consider. If I see any of your comments that make any sense, I might reply..who knows?

      • JeffH

        Hey denniso, why don’t you let your 9 year old read all of your posts.
        I’m sure you won’t because if you are a responsible parent you wouldn’t teach your children to act like a 6 year old child on a public blog as you have.

  • JeffH

    Mr. Livingston and the commentors on the Personal Liberty Digest . I APOLOGISE to each of you for lowering myself to the underground level of a few. My initial comments were clearly directed at this current administration, and the elected and appointed politicos that support Obamas takeover of America, but as usual, attacks on Obama become very personal for the minority on this site. I have made it a point to give a larger helping of “dog dew” to the extreme left that choose to disrupt these posts with their personal hate and personal name calling at the personal level. Is it right? NO! Will it stop? We’ll see. Who knows where the lunacy will end.
    Thank you Bob Livingston for providing this Personal Liberty Digest for all of us to discuss, and vent.

  • ONTIME

    Looks like the environmetal industry has triumphed again, the security and sovereignty of this country are of little consequence when you can bluff and bully the weak kneed congress. I wonder how much of the campaign monies that went into the coffers of these politicians came from mexican lobbyist groups that sponsored illegals and will eventually have some vote influence for the libs down the road?

    Learning how to vote will be a long excruciating experience for a great number of citizens in this country, the results of their past ignorance is telling and damaging to the nation overall and the cost is going to mount because of this mislead thinking.

  • DaveH

    Another of Obama’s thugs:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzG0xpkjWrA

  • Joe H.

    Eyes,
    When have you, on this thread defended or called out both sides? All I have read by you is liberal rant and kissing up to Denniso. I almost wonder if HE is the husband you mentioned earlier! Even the one time we agreed, it was to cut the Republicans, NEVER the dems!!!!

  • Joe H.

    Denniso, 337th?

  • Joe H.

    Mr Livingston,
    If I have called names to anyone here please point it out and I will apologize. If I have cussed please let me know, as I haven’t seen any of my posts adorned with the word removed for offensive content. I did get a little hot under the collar and for good reason, I feel. The one post that denniso took for a thinly veiled threat was nothing but good advice, nothing more. I appreciate the forum you give us here and try not to abuse your rules in any way. Thank you!

    • libertytrain

      Joe H – I get the feeling Mr. Livingston wants for people to have the liberty of meaningful dialogue. Everyone slips up now and then without even realizing they may have offended someone. I really think we’re fortunate to have the opportunity here -not like those sites that are censoring one side or the other — They just seem to try and follow the guidelines he set out. I am known to have “potty mouth” – but you won’t “hear” it from me here — Of course, I heard Julie Andrews daughters’ claim she does too – but you wouldn’t know it. Frankly, I just want to see what people are thinking, see what I can learn from their thoughts. But sometimes it’s hard when the name-calling and cussing gets in the way of sifting through these thoughts.

  • DaveH

    Anyone who thinks Eyes is the poor innocent little flower needs to look back at her past comments. She loves to put words in peoples’ mouths, name-call, ridicule, and launch various other manipulative attacks on anybody who disagrees with her. She deserves no sympathy.

    • denniso

      Eyes has used very little name calling and pretty tame at that. She has been taunted and smeared almost constantly by the majority here.

      • Rod the Other

        SO DENNSIO OLD COMRADE..The only claim you can refute in the name calling? and at that, you can’t even fully exonerate EYES. Seems like kind of a nothing statement you’ve made.

        If anything you’ve validate DAVEH’ claim!

        How would you catagorize this comment from EYES, ”Could it be the white man syndrome?” Would that be the LIBERAl tolerance showing?

        • denniso

          WRONGROD, it depends on what the definition of ‘man’ is.

          • Rod the Other

            are you having dinner with Clinton or something? or was that response a suggestion from your handler at the DNC?

          • CindyL

            denniso, I didn’t know what Eyeswideopen meant by that comment “white man syndrome, so I googled it. There is only one web site which uses that term, however there is another which is called angry white man. here are the links: http;//www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=angry%20white%20man
            http://www.identityindependence.com/angryman.html

            Eyeswideopen seemed to be pretty specific and direct in her use of words, so maybe she really meant what she said. It isn’t as derogatory as some would think.

    • JeffH

      DaveH, you are so correct. Since I’ve been on this site, I have been at both ends of the spectrum. When you disagree and try to be civil, the leftys go on the attack. Eyes has been trying to taunt yu for quite some time. Rarely contributes with much more than examples of the past. Twists and turns comments, makes rude assumptions and snuggles in the burrough with Norm and denniso. Blind in one eye and can’t see out of the other. I might add that Montreal is getting chilly these days. LOL!

    • libertytrain

      DaveH – losing a kid sucks – for that I do have sympathy — perhaps that’s what helped make her take the path she’s on. I’ve got two in Afghanistan right now and it’s hard to handle – but that was their choice – so I don’t think I could blame anyone for what may/could happen to them. I just know it would be very painful for me as their mom and caregiver/guardian to their two toddlers to deal with – so again, for losing a child, I have great sympathy.

      • Joe H.

        LIBERTYTRAIN,
        Please tell your kids thanks for their service and I hope and pray both come home safe and sound!!!! God Bless!!

        • libertytrain

          Joe H. Thank you.

  • Joe H.

    Well I guess the people have spoken. A republican sweep!! I guess the people aren’t as satisfied as said on here earlier!!! I guess a certain unnamed male person here can’t understand the concept of freedom of speech and that calling the president what ever as long as it isn’t racist is legal!!! I seem to remember a poster of Bush as Hitler right before he left office! If it was ok for him, why not O-man?

  • Joe H.

    Denniso,
    How is that post at 3:33p.m. any worse than the one you made on Nov 2 at 7:47a.m? Pot, kettle, Black much?

  • JohnW

    Aw, c’mon, y’all. They saved us a ton of money on gun turrets. Personally, I’d prefer two fences with starved and slavering beasts between them. There is nothing wrong with immigration. There is everything wrong with illegal immigration. How can that be difficult to understand? Or, for that matter, to enforce?

    Have you seen the videos of the scofflaws running the gauntlet in attempting to elude our law? Just the types you’d love to have influencing your children or threatening your way of life. It’s easy to defend when you don’t have it to live with.

    This country has become great as the result of its greatly mixed heritage. However, the mixture includes too many Vermont child molesters who are allowed to go free. I say shoot them and the judges. There are too many murderers allowed parole while lesser three-timers are incarcerated for life. I say shoot the murderers and their parole boards. There are those who would enter this country illegally. I say shoot them and their defenders. We have too much sympathy and too little backbone. Wake up.

    I am mightily offended at having to “dial 1 to continue in English.” This is America – what the hexx DO YOU THINK I SPEAK? Non-English billboards in American cities are similarly distressing. I’ll help nearly anyone, and do so regularly, but I refuse to give up my family’s traditional rights as Americans in the doing of it.

  • Tater Salad

    Please read: “Arguing with Idiots” by Glenn Beck.

  • Joe H.

    I don’t know if anybody is still here but I just read a report by the federation for American immigration reform that illegals are costing
    Pennsylvania 728 million a year. Now that’s just one state and it’s a northern state. It stands to common sense that the southwestern states are hurt at a higher rate!!!!

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