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Senate Democrats Block Path To Prosperity

May 30, 2011 by  

Senate Democrats block Path to ProsperityThe budget proposal created by Representative Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), which includes an overhaul of Medicare, has been rejected by the United States Senate.

On May 25, every Democrat in the chamber and five Republicans struck down Ryan’s budget for fiscal year 2012, including its provision to replace the current Medicare system with a voucher program. According to media reports, Democrats forced the vote to make GOP lawmakers go on the record about their support for the controversial measure.

Republicans who opposed Ryan’s proposal included Scott Brown (R-Mass.), Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska), Rand Paul (R-Ky.), Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine).

Under Ryan’s proposal, which is titled The Path to Prosperity, the Federal government would no longer directly pay for healthcare for senior citizens enrolled in Medicare. It would impact Americans turning 65 years old starting in 2022.

Ryan’s budget, which passed the House last month, is expected to be a widely debated topic heading into the 2012 election season. Representative Tom Rooney (R-Fla.), who supports the Path to Prosperity while representing one of the oldest populations of all the U.S. districts, said that the jousting over the entitlement program will “be an epic battle in politicking,” Bloomberg reported.

According to Representative Mike Simpson (R-Idaho), Democrats have argued that the plan would end “Medicare as we know it.”

“That’s true, we are ending Medicare as you know it,” Simpson told the media outlet. “We are trying to take it from insolvent to solvent because if it stays where it is, it’s not going to be there for anybody.”

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  • bsfurg

    why did scott Brown run on the GOP side if he likes to vote for the Dems. all the time…I see he took his facebook and changed it so ppl couldnt leave messages for him any more must be he didnt like all the ones that thought him a traiter to the GOP.. I wont help him win this time …

    • Robert Smith

      Didn’t the GOP lose out big in a recent NY election that was focused on Medicaid? The PEOPLE didn’t want it and voted Democrat.

      Remember the PEOPLE?

      Rob

      • SpiritualMadMan

        The vote was split off by a Fraudulent Independent Candidate who was actually a Demoncratic Operative, that plus Demoncratic scrace tactics exceedingly narrowly won the day.

        Don’t rejoice yet…

        We are NOT done with fake Tea Party Candidates and RINO’s, yet!

        • Wayne937

          I think the Democrats don’t have enough guts to come up with their own plan and so they are hunkering down and blaming the Republicans for trying to make SS solvent. Both parties need to work together instead of being independent of each other? If the Democrats cannot make tough decisions, then they should step down and let some one else do their job. If Congress had kept their hands out of the social security fund, and used it for other purposes, the fund would have still be in the blaok. We have to blame Congress for the predicament were in as they control the purse strings. It would be a shame for folks who has paid into this fund for years with a promise it would still be there when they retired. I think it is actually criminal for Congress to have wasted this money when SS was first set up it was only to be used for the purpose of SS. We can’t criminal charge Congress, but we can keep voting these parasites out until we come up with some good ones who will keep their promise to the American People.

          • Wayne937

            Sorry about my typos folks.

          • vagabond

            I agree wit you 110% Wayne. and you are correct about the democrats stealing the social security fund. they did it under lyndon bains johnsons administration to fund the Vietnam war,

      • Dagney

        Not only was there a fraudulent Tea Party candidate, the Democrat ran as a conservative. Please people, DO NOT believe ANY Democrat who says they will protect our country fiscally, militarily, or constitutionally. Look at the Democrats actual voting record these past two and a half years. They are ALL liars and RADICALS and are mentally ill. They have no clue they are destroying their own gravy train. They don’t care about anything except getting reelected. They say one thing during reelection season and do another when it’s time to vote. They need to be DEFEATED. That goes for any RINO Republican, too. Look at all of their RECORDS, not their words.

        • http://comcast the fisherman

          You are so right. Both parties i say both parties do not do as they say. They speak on both sides of their mouths. So if you are republican you vote republican if you are democrats you vote democrat.Just because you belive in that party. But they all look after one person,and that person is them selfs. Congress gave them self a raise this year. If you are retired and expect a big Cola foreget that . We are getting some what of a incress but not much. That will be eaten up by Medicare. Yes you are right all parties should come together. And i agree with Wayne,the more wars we have the less money in the socail security.They just can not keep their hands off.

      • eyeswideopen

        Robert, Gop doesn’t listen to the people, or they wouldn’t have started down this path. Here is the problem: When all those who will have had their medicare turned into vouchers reach retirement age, some of their parents will be 85 and will also have lost coverage due to vouchers. Thus how will those people cover their expenses and their parents? Since Ryans plan will again create a doughnut hole for prescription meds, immediately after it is passed, who will cover this expense for the seniors? Yep, you and I will be covering our parents additional costs, while at the same time, trying to save money for our own retirement(medical costs escalating much faster than increases for salaries)expenses. If I start saving $300 a month now, I will have 46,000 in ten years. With the voucher program costing approx 7000 out of pocket, I will have enough money to last 6 years. What will happen when that money is gone? But here is the best question: How many of you can save $300 a month in this economy? Even if you can make a commitment to save that much, it won’t be enough. Do the math. All we have to do is raise revenue to cover the expense or we can do what the Repubs want and die quickly, then only the rich will survive.

        • GeorgeE

          Eyes,

          Good point. However, what are we going to do when Medicare and Social Security go broke? They’re based on cash-flow, and both are already running in the red. As I see it, we’ve only got a short time to make some pretty radical changes to these programs or there won’t be anything left for any of us regardless how desperate our personal situation gets. The Ryan plan is one way of dealing with this problem. Doing nothing is just going to lead to a total calamity.

          • eyeswideopen

            GeorgeE, we need to stop raiding ss trust fund to pay for the tax cuts and other special interests projects. Remove the cap on SS.($106,000) everybody should pay according to earnings. Are you aware of why ss is in red this year? It also happened in 1984 while Reagan was screwing around with our taxes. The economic situation caused a decrease in revenue, while record numbers retired and we had a 10% jump in those filing for disability. Record number of unemployed caused a lack of revenue. Medicare took a huge hit, when the Medicare D passed without funding in 2003. Let’s use some common sense and not prevent the government from neogiating with Pharma for lower prices. Think how great it could be, if the repubs worked toward a solution to save it, rather than trying to privatize or kill it. You can tell a whole lot about a country, by how they treat the elderly and the children. We are now endangering the elderly and insuring limited futures for the children by cutting education funds. This is not what America is all about. If the program is good enough to expect private companies to take over, why can’t it be fixed?

          • GeorgeE

            Eyes,

            I understand that revenues drop when the economy is in a recession or sluggish, like it is now. However, we can still see than in the medium to long term both Social Security and Medicare are going to go broke if something isn’t done to fix them.

            I wish you wouldn’t imply that conservatives don’t care about the elderly and our children just because we believe that we should leverage the power of the free market to fix these programs rather than expecting the government to do it. That’s a line the Democrats have been using for some time to bash anyone (especially Republicans) who proposes changes to our social programs, and frankly, it’s getting old. To us, privatizing does not equal killing a program. It means making it more efficient and customer centric.

            We don’t have a problem with the government negotiating a lower price from the pharmaceutical companies, if they won’t screw up the free market in the process by taking political pay-offs and further complicating the regulatory and tax processes with new requirements and exemptions. In other words, we think that when the government gets involved in these types of programs, it’s more likely to screw up the situation than not. When they get through, the products and services will be more expensive and delivered less fairly than if individuals were allowed to negotiate with their providers directly.

          • JeffH

            GeorgeE, I agree. The only difference between the GOP and the Democratic Socialist Party is how they steal your money.

            As is often said around here, “As government grows, corruption flows”.

          • GeorgeE

            JeffH,

            Basically, I think you’re right. We need to cut down on the flow of money to Washington if we ever have a prayer of fixing the problems we have. Money and power corrupt, so it really doesn’t matter which political party is in power, they’ll all become corrupt if left there long enough, I’m convinced.

      • JUKEBOX

        The PEOPLE you refer to are so stupid they will believe any Democrat lie, including the one that Obama is a BLACK man, not a bi-racial man.

    • Mickey Manle

      Those Republicans are NOT conservatives, they are called “RINOS”, (Republicans in name only). The worst one is Lisa Murkowski
      (R-Alaska). The Tea Party almost got rid of her last November…..a real she-bitch. Even though she ultimately won, my $ contributions to her challenger was well spent. Keep up the fight, don’t give up the battle. We will remove the Obama (our feel good, PC President) / Democratic stain from this great country. God Bless America !!!
      “JANUARY 20, 2013…..THE END OF AN ERROR”.

    • Crystal

      You’re right. Scott Brown was catching it from all sides.

    • Wayne937

      Why do the Communist and the Liberals run on the Democratic ticket? They do this so they can get voted in office. It’s the same way with those RINO’s. They are fake. Wh I am t ring to say is; they are wolves in Sheep’s clothing.

  • DU

    I do not understand why Rand Paul is among this group. That is a complete betrayal. The others have always been RINO’s so no surprise there….Kentucky hold your man’s feet to the fire…..What is he thinking??????

    • Cawmun Cents

      My take on Rand Paul’s vote is that despite the Ryan proposal being an effective bill of cuts,that it was not enough to satisfy him.He probably doesnt want to see this done half-assed,so dissent is his way of declining to give his stamp of approval.Something needs to be done and you can go all in(obscure poker reference inserted here)on the fact that senate democrats will not get it.A proposal may not be the right proposal.If Mr. Paul doesnt then sign his name to a vote which cuts less,you will see that I was telling the truth. The democrats defeating this bill just means that we as a nation have to take a firm stand when voting for these charlatans in the senate who claim to be in defense of that which they intend to destroy.I am speaking of the current batch of democrats and their token repubican following,which I do not think numbers Mr. Paul amongst them.The sooner we smoke these hacks out and show the people that these are not people who are”saving”anything,but spending us into oblivion,the better.Lets make a pact to stop these wasteful monsters.I dont care who they represent or what has been done by who in the past.Lets get rid of the offal in the seats of power now,before we are all working until we drop dead,and there is no such thing as retirement.That is if there is any economy at all to work in.

  • H. Kirk Rainer

    This article does not have offer details on the Ryan proposal; it would be interesting to see how a plan, described from other sources as being to modest and too neglectiful on military spending, could result in prosperity.

    There is a larger principle being overlooked and neglected by congress–that prevents (or has prevented) necessary and significant reduction…and recovery–and that is, sacrifice. If such a plan were approved, an approach taken, congress would most surely lose some of their incummbents.

    Those honored on Memorial Day know about this principle.

  • SpiritualMadMan

    At least Paul Rand offered a plan that *would* work, even if painful.

    And, you are quite right in saying the devil is in the details, which are not given here.

    Do a good bit more research before you tar and feather one of the very few people who are doing their jobs and actually trying to come up with a solution instead of foisting it off on later generations while they continue to collect their own millions in benefits of office while leaving the rest of us with nothing but empty promises!

    • Wayne937

      I’ll have to say one thing about Congressmam Ryan is that he is honest, and has the guts enough to come up with a viable solution. We have to give him credit for that even though I don’t particularly like his plan. If they took all the folks off SS who shouldn’t be on it, and took out all the waste from Medicare we probably wouldn’t need to cut anyone. Maybe we should try that before we change anything.

  • http://deleted Claire

    Not so fast–there is a reason Rand Paul and others voted against this bill. “Things” are always tacked on to any bill in order to get the necessary votes for passage. Maybe Rand and others did not approve of these “things” that were tacked on? These politicians throw everything in but the kitchen sink on any bill just to get it passed. I don’t think the entire procedure is being reported to Americans. We don’t know the nitty gritty of this bill, we were not there to hear everything. I will wait and see what happens.

    • bob wire

      Oh Claire, ~ Mitch, gave them a “PASS” ~ the GOP needs these politicians and does not wish to risk them by angering their supporters with an up vote on Ryan’s “PLAN”

      And it being reported, but often buried like bad news.

      It’s what “not in the news” that’s News.

      Ryan’s Plan will fail ~ but win by moving the center farther to the right.

      I know! it’s twisted logic ~ The true Plan is to”hide” the real plan. Since the real plan won’t work if everyone knows what it really is. ~~ make sense?

      • http://deleted Claire

        bob wire– I have heard that a number of the Senior Citizens Groups here in town are rallying against Ryan’s plan for Medicare, etc. It appears the senior citizens are raising hell. I have received a number of phone calls asking for support (not monetary) in this cause. It appears to me that Ryan’s Medicare plan has really ruffled the feathers of senior citizens.

        • GeorgeE

          Claire,

          Do you know what it is about the Ryan plan that concerns your neighbors? On the surface, it looks pretty benign to me, for folks over 55, that is.

          • http://deleted Claire

            GeorgeE–At this point in time, the impression I get is that seniors think the Republicans want to do away with Medicare and SS entirely, and I think they do want to do away with these programs. Seniors and the under 55 age group do not approve of any voucher system, privatization, etc. They want it left alone. I have noticed the seniors have become more vocal and stubborn about the matter. At least here they have. I have noticed the same attitude with the adults younger than 55. I have always thought that SS and Medicare were good programs. I don’t have a problem with them. I have a problem with the administrations, hospitals, doctors, pharmas, insurance companies that have abused the program. They took Medicare for the proverbial “ride.” They all “took” what they could get by with, and they got “by” with it. I call it “fleecing.” Administrations have stolen from SS for decades. Nothing will make me believe otherwise. Cuts do have to be made for the economy, and I would suggest starting with all the “perks” these Senators and Representatives attach to any and all bills they try to pass.

          • GeorgeE

            Claire,

            It’s my understanding that those folks 55 and older would not have to go to a voucher system if they don’t want to. However, those younger than 55 might have problems if they want to stay on the current system. On the other hand, most of the people I know that are younger than 40 don’t think they’re going to get anything from these programs anyway, so if reforming these programs now will give them something in the future, they think that’s a good deal. Also, the younger folks are used to managing their medical costs through a medical savings account, and saving for their retirement with 401ks and IRAs, so moving to a voucher system doesn’t bother them as much as it would someone older.

            It’s also obvious to me that healthcare providers have been taking advantage of the Medicare program for years. However, I’ve concluded in my mind that the root cause is that 1) the government sets prices it will pay for services which are below the provider’s cost, then 2) turns its head when the providers overbill Medicare for these services. In the end, the government spends more for this program than they should, and there’s inadequate oversight to clean up the mess. So, who is at fault? I blame the government, mostly, for setting up a flawed program like this, setting rules that can’t be legally followed without putting a lot of providers out of business, and not managing the program properly. I don’t think most of our healthcare providers were criminals before Medicare went into effect. Do you?

            Our politicians definitely need to clean up the wasteful spending. It’s everywhere and in every program, even in the programs I think are worthwhile. However, the fact is that unless the cost of Medicare is properly dealt with soon, it’s going to completely consume all of the revenue that our government gets from us. Also, keep in mind that it was the Democrats under LBJ that voted to put all of our Social Security money in the general fund rather than keeping it in the “lock box” to pay for future retirees (if they hadn’t done this, SS would not have a funding problem). It was under Obamacare that $500,000,000,000 will be reallocated out of Medicare to partially pay for the Medicaid costs for insuring 30 million people who didn’t buy healthcare insurance (half of which are illegal immigrants, and a quarter of which are people who could afford insurance but chose not to buy it). And now, it’s the Democrats who are willing to let these programs run completely out of money rather than reforming them just so they can make political mileage with seniors. So, why in the world would anyone believe it’s the Republicans who want to do away with these programs? Are people really paying attention?

          • JeffH

            Claire, “At this point in time, the impression I get is that seniors think the Republicans want to do away with Medicare and SS entirely”

            The Republicans know they can’t do away with these programs. The Dems and the MSM just keep using their little scare tactics and lie, lie lie. I’m sure if the government hadn’t been able to steal from the SS program things the cofers wouldn’t be as empty.

            Ryan had the cahones to at least come up with a viable plan, although Ron Paul voted against it and lambasted the plan for not going far enough.

          • An American Patriot

            I keep telling myself not to jump into this conversation because it is all so frustrating, but one keeps hoping and praying that one day people will try very hard to educate themselves so they will know the facts and make decisions accordingly. Sadly that doesn’t seem to be the case.
            The democraps: They don’t want to change SS, Medicare & Medicaid unless. . .they can confiscate more of your hard earned money. Why would they want to do that? Simple, with more of your money, they can spend lots more on their constant social engineering schemes and reward their friends who help them get re-elected. It’s all about power and staying in power. This is how these pond scum bottom feeders get off. Do they care about their country and the people? Obviously not, because as most of us know by now, the country is nearly in shambles and the people are hurting something fierce.
            So they tell whopping big lies to scare the elderly and all the younger ignorant people that the republicans want to throw them all under the bus. Or over the cliff, or just let the poor elderly starve.
            The Ryan plan would change nothing for those 55 and older and though voucher programs at first seem inadequate, the beauty of them is that the individual would make decisions on how their health care dollars are spent. They would have the incentive to learn how much their health care really costs and would shop around for better deals. Doctors would love that knowing they do not have to deal with endless bureaucrats and red tape and things would become cheaper and much more cost effective. Just think if all those hundreds of dollars government now takes from your paycheck for SS, Medicare & Medicaid, money, incidentally matched by your employer, were to remain in your check, what kind of retirement and health care plan could you work out for yourself? You could easily retire a millionaire. If you watch your investments and educate yourself, you would have far more retirement funds and far better health care. This is something anyone 50 years old and younger should be clamoring for. Bear in mind that your SS checks revert back to our benevolent Uncle Sam when you die, not to your family. However, under the republican ideas floated around, these funds would be yours forever and be part of your estate when you die.
            The Godless democrats know they would suddenly have a populace who now know the truth about these thieves and they would be the ones thrown under the bus and deservedly so!
            Here’s the BIG problem I have been watching for years. Yes, too many republicans also lust for the power and longevity in office that democrats lust for and that means we must be ever vigilant, educate ourselves and families and friends and vote these criminals OUT!
            The remainder of the problem is that the republicans have been doing a lousy job of showing up the democrat lies for what they are and a worse job selling their very sensible programs to “we the people.”
            God willing, they will get some savvy media/advertising talent, do some cute commercials that drive home the point in comical ways and then the people will wonder why they didn’t know all this before.
            We know the republicans have to do a much better job in educating themselves. Sadly, we the people don’t even try to educate ourselves and learn the truth. Some of us are greedy and we want what’s coming to us and the hell with others. That kind of selfishness never solved any social problem. It only helped incubate the eggs of socialism & communism. Those eggs are coming along very nicely and God help us if they all hatch.
            Please, for God’s sake, smarten up and look at yourselves honestly. Are you trying to become part of the solution or do you go around reporting the lies of the democrats and think you’re reporting the truth. If you really took the time & trouble to really learn both sides of the story, you would quickly see that 95% of the crap you hear from any democrat is lies, lies, and more lies. Sugarcoated lies are still lies.

        • WayneT

          Claire, I wish those senior citizens would get that concerned with Obama who is driving this countdry toward Communism, and running up this debt another 3.7 trillion dollars. This huge debt is what is going to kill this countries economy. Don’td they even see, or read that in the news?

          • Allan Halbert

            One difference between Dems and Repubs is Dems lie better on TV. But they vote fairly predictably. Repubs make promises, then go back and vote in the manner that best reelects them. They reflect disunity, which doesn’t help when they’re the minority, and Dems leverage the disunity. I think one reason for disunity is that Repubs tend to be more independent that Dems. It would be hard to imagine all the Republican legislators leaving their jurisdiction to block a vote a la Wisconsin. It’s Democrats that lie down in front of loggin trucks. Courage, arrogance, or idiocy?

    • DC/Tex

      You are correct the corrupt politicians cannot pass a bill unless they tack on a perk for their owners (the rich people, corporations, and organizations)that they owe their power a wealth too.

      • http://deleted Claire

        DC/Tex–Now you are talking the talk and I agree with you.

    • Wayne937

      Claire, you have a valid point there. You could be right. We do not know all the details why it failed so we will have to be patient and not critize until we know all the facts.

  • bob wire

    “Senate Democrats Block Path To Prosperity”

    Prosperity for whom should be the question in your mind.

    I suppose being assimilated by the BORG has it’s advantages.

    Not everything we seek or desire demands a monetary value.

    How much is a pint of blood worth if you are not in need?

    This attempt to place a dollar value on life itself ~ holds human kind hostage to shells, trinkets and all things shinny.

    What is the value of one minute of a human life. ~ It seems we are attempted to place a dollar value on such things. We can place a dollar value on suffering if we wish.

    This practice keeps men “worldly” bound and blind to the graces of life.

    for The “LOVE” of money we do many things.

    • http://deleted Claire

      bob wire–”for the love of money we do many things”

      Truer words were never spoken, and I will apply your statement to Democrats AND Republicans. I am not so blind that I cannot see both sides and recognize the greed that lies behind the scenario.

      • Wayne937

        I agree with you, Claire. Intelligent people can see both sides of the coin. We realize that we have bad people on both sides of the isle. I am ready and willing to clean up the Republican side of the isle, but Democrats will never clean up their own side of the isle. If you would take a crook who was a Democrat, who just got out of prison, and an honest moral man who was a Republican, running against each other, the Democrats would still vote for the Democrat. I don’t look at the party when I make my decision to vote, I look at the quality of the person. I have heard many Democrats say they would never vote Republican. Claire, anyone with common sense knows that this is a very stupid statement to make. People like this who are so locked in on their party, who do not look for the quality of the person, doesn’t have the brain capacity to know right from wrong should refrain from voting. A very prime example of this is Charlie Rangel. This man committed a crime by not paying his taxes for several years. He was only charged with an ethic violation, and removed from his position. To top it off, the Democrats voted him right back in Congress again. This man should have been criminally charged, and sent to prison. I mean really, what in the world is going on in type of persons heads. I can truthfully tell you that had this been a Republican from my district that did this, I would never, never cast another vote for that person. Of course, I am an honest person with some intelligence. A lot of Democrats do not have that ability. We have a few of them on this forum. I think we all know who they are without mentioning any names.

        • bob wire

          Wayne, people are just people ~ It’s not just a democrat thang!

          There are some democrats that think the same as you suggest you do. That being a republican is more important then being correct or moral and righteous in doing so.

          Does this mindset serve any one any worth wild purpose? NO, it truly doesn’t but only adds to the contempt and distrust.

          If you want something to stop! go away, cease to be, you must first take it out of your life, your way of thinking before you might ever hope to take it out of someones else life. For what you send is what you shall receive in return.

          With such things as ideas of values, it starts with self and controlling of ones self at the “thought level” ~ and it’s wrong to group people and label them for your on personal convince and comfort of understanding.

          AS you think, you will be. You can not hide your “thoughts”, try as you may. We clean up our own lives And the lives of others with our thoughts.

          Republicans are good people, Democrats are good people and independents are sometimes torn between the two. ~ We must work hard on occasions to love the person while rejecting their transgression. Some of us have a more difficult time with this then others. But for peace and resolution to exist, it must be done.

          Without getting all “Holy Water” about this principled practice. We were taught as Christians to hate the sin but love the sinner. ~ correct? ~ Well it’s this basic concept of tolerance and forgiveness that applies on matters of political discourse as well. We can agree to disagree without attempting to demonizing and destroying each other in the process.

          Why attempt to clean up your neighbors mind until you have done much work on your own? But accept each person as an individual and not just a label. Are you not an “individual” and wish to be treated so?

          If you are looking for some kind of “unconditional surrender” in the war of ideas ~ you only polarize those around you and subject yourself to a lifetime of unnecessary misery.

          I have learned over the years, ~ I’m not as cleaver as I once thought and have learned to refer life to a higher power. Four little words sum it up well when I remember to employ them.(sometimes I do forget as I get so busy running the universe)

          Let go, ~~ let God.

          • eyeswideopen

            Hand clapping, well said.

          • Karolyn

            Bravo, Bob!

          • WayneT

            Bob, your getting too wordy, which is btter known as being too windy. It should not take all that amount typing to get your message across. I am not going to keep reading messages that long.

          • bob wire

            why am I not surprised Wayne? You have hear the message, I took the time to share with you. It is now for you to do or do not. In either case, I’m good with it here.

        • Don

          Isn’t it the AG job to prosecute these people, so look of who he is, and what he is, should tell the story !

          • bob wire

            The AG can pick and chose to where a blind eye is cast, to whom he wishes to bring down the thunder and to whom might skate free, Lilly White from any transgressions against man or God.

            The make this office most important and most powerful and SHOULD be outside of any influence of the Executive Branch regardless of “appointment”

            But we find ~ that this has not been the case during 43′s administration but the AG office simple a rubber stamp of the Executive Branch, rendering the checks and balance of government null and void.

            Hence the tag ; “Bubba’s Play House”

    • Bud Tugly

      well put. I like the Borg reference.

      • bob wire

        “Your resistance is ~ Futile. You “will” be assimilated for the greater good of the collective”

        Burr! strong words ~ I prefer options. Can we talk about this?

  • gary

    AGAIN, ignorance and old dems rule!!

  • http://charter howe

    The democrats want to use this budget cutting opportunity to demagogue the Ryan plan that would save medicare. The fact of the matter is the democrats bring nothing to the table except their contempt for WE THE PEOPLE, by not engaging in debate to solve this huge debt/deficit problem. This democratic group of socialist lawyers are taking a risk to use the budget cutting process as an election weapon because they think that the electorate is too stupid to know that we must reduce the debt/deficit in a meaningful way to get our econmoy going again and to create jobs. The alternative for America is a much worsening economy and extreme cuts in essential services.
    I hope others are fired up and will vote these radicals out of office on 2 Nov 2012.

    • bob wire

      So? You are short some loot? Thinking you might not have enough? More life left at the end of the money?

    • eyeswideopen

      Do you not consider medical care as an “essential service”? If you were running a company and your expenses grew, wouldn’t you raise the cost of your goods or service to cover those costs? Take a look at our tax history and you will see that we have always expected the rich to pay more. The first public school had the rich paying a fee while the poor attended for free. Our forefathers understood that we needed an educated population to be able to compete in the world. That is why they gave the government the right to levy taxes. To all of you repubs who want government to function like a business, rasing taxes should fall in line with your thinking. Raising taxes to cover expenses is the solution. Since we are a democray, we can adjust our taxes to address the changing situations we find ourselves in. The repub mantra and loyalty to not raising taxes ever, means they will not be able to address the changing world of economics.

      • GeorgeE

        Eyes,

        Actually, businesses set their prices at the rate the market will pay. If they can cover their costs and still make a profit, all the better. But businesses can’t always raise their prices just because their costs go up. That’s why the private sector has a much better record of managing costs than the public sector. Government always raises their prices and increases taxes (or borrows or prints money) to cover their increased costs. If you want to actually stimulate economic growth, which I believe everyone wants, you have to do the things that help businesses, especially small businesses, cut or control costs better. You certainly don’t want to increase their costs (as in increase tax rates) or add new regulations which increase costs and uncertainty for future planning purposes.

        • eyeswideopen

          GeorgeE, as a small business owner, I know only too well about cutting costs, which after you have cut to the bone, sometimes the only available solution is to raise the cost of your service. I presently charge more than some larger companies, but my quality and reputation has allowed me to warrant the increase, which allowed me to stay in business. With medical costs rising so high, I had to increase prices to keep paying for insurance for employees. Our Constitution allows us to adjust taxes according to the economic situation that we find ourselves in. The ability to change with the times is what has allowed us to be the most succesful country in history.

          • GeorgeE

            Eyes,

            Good for you. Sounds like your customers value your products and services enough to warrant higher prices. If that’s the case, you might have been able to raise your prices without a cost increase. Nevertheless, it’s great that your business is strong enough to allow you to raise your prices. Unfortunately, your competitors may not be able to do the same. It’s bad enough when a company has to go out of business because they can’t keep up with their competitors, but when it’s because the government raised taxes or instituted additional regulations, that’s really a shame, especially at a time like this.

            I think flexibility is a great thing. It has differentiated many of our U.S. businesses from foreign competitors. However, I’ve observed that when government tries to solve our problems for us, it’s often like a ratchet which tends to increase its power and control, resulting in huge overhead and spending over time. This process almost never unwinds. I fear we’re just about at the end of this road now, and will be forced to make BIG changes, or suffer enormous consequences.

          • bob wire

            well, you are left to compete in the market place, cut overhead and absorb what you must to compete. ~ But here’s the rub ~ salesmanship!

            It takes serious effort, but trading apples for oranges is no deal and that’s what a business owner is up against. The Sales “spin” and who can do it best.

            I can sale “see thu windows” and “rotating tires” all day long! I can guarantee that it won’t rust, bust or collect dust until the cows comes home. Just trust me!

            But what do you really know, how can you really compare? Will I be there for you 3 years from now? ~ Am I insured? ~ but with “Dewey Screwem and Howell”? or with a Solid 5 mill general liability, job completion and a umbrella rider clause?

            Will your energy consumption for operating cost be 20% per year more then it should be? ~ You really don’t know . You never will know unless you have something to compare.

            You could be the victim of a salesman and be happy with the results , knowing no different.

            This is the market place and where a good salesman carves out a comfortable living. Simple supple and demand is but one factor and business either succeeds or fails not for market pressures alone but by a sales force and the ability to keep it sold with solid service after the sale.

            Bottom line? most consumers tend to invest in “cheap” market entries, any saving being short term and on the front of the deal. ~ The words you should be looking for is “Value Buy” unless you plan to kick the bucket very soon.

            The notion that the cream will rise and separate itself from the rest may very will be true but so will a turd and by then , it’s too late.

            Politics today? ~ I see little difference, it’s a sales job.

          • libertytrain

            I think, I agree with you….if I understood you the way I think I did… you’re a tough one to follow sometimes – :)

      • LeRoy Z.

        Eyes, simply raising taxes doesn’t take into account the law of unintended consequences. If you have two companies paying ‘X’ in taxes, and then you raise taxes to ’1.5X’, if one company closes its doors, you end up with ONE company paying ’1.5X’, which is less revenue than two comapnies paying ‘X’. Two companies paying ‘X’ comes to ’2X’ in revenue, while one company paying ’1.5X’ comes to ’1.5X’ in revenue, in addition to the unemployment from the other plant closing its doors. I realize this is an oversimplification, and it’s not rocket science, but it does need to be understood by our ruling class and I really don’t think many of them on the Dem side get it.

        • eyeswideopen

          Leroy, love your example, however, we presently have the situation you stated, as 2/3 of our corporations don’t pay any taxes, much less the rate that I presently pay. How about everybody and all corporations pay and then we would be a fair and equal country?

          • GeorgeE

            I believe taxing companies and corporations is just another way of getting more money from us, the consumers. So, in the end it’s a deceitful way of taxing citizens, not companies. Having said that, I think we ought to get rid of all exceptions (loop holes) and subsidies so that all companies/corporations are taxed the same. That’s a good first start.

          • eyeswideopen

            George, hands clapping for you!! You are the first person who has ever stated that corporations should be taxed uniformaly and that subsidies should be stopped. You cannot be a repub!! You give me a sliver of hope that people are starting to see the unequal playing field that we have created.

          • GeorgeE

            Eyes,

            Thanks for the kudos. Actually, I am a registered Republican with a conservative ideology. I think you are applauding my libertarian economic views which basically believe, among other things, that if our income must be taxed, it should be done as simply and at as low a tax rate as possible and still be able to collect sufficient revenue to run our government in the things that only the government can do, and must do, for us. In other words, a simple flat (or nearly flat) tax would be more ideal and fairer than the complicated mess we currently have. Whether taxing income is the best way to fund the government is a subject for another time.

            Thanks again.

          • http://deleted Claire

            GeorgeE and eyes: I commend you both, and I agree.

          • Wayne937

            My perception is that there should not be any taxes on corporations. When you tax corporations they just pass it on to the consumers, and they still make the same amount of money. If I am selling hot dogs for $200 each, and the government raises my taxe .10%, I will just pass it on to the consumer by charging $2.20. This is why you should not tax corporation as consumers pay it anyway plus your own taxes. How do you pass an income tax on to others, you can’t so you stuck unless you boss gives you another raise to make up for it.

  • BigBadJohn

    Back in 1998 time frame, Jeb Bush was being prepped for the presidential run. At a GOP fund raiser he made the comment that he would be willing to bankrupt the USA to put and end to Social Security.
    George Bush got the nomination instead but do you think Jeb’s idea stuck in his head?
    Dollar declined in value to approximately the value it is now under Bush.
    Bush and the Republicans increased the annual deficit by 1500%.

    Obama inherited a mess and has been unwilling to make the tough choices to fix it. Such as getting out troupes out of the middle east, cutting military spending, cutting Bush’s prescription drug plan, and letting Bush’s tax cuts expire – Entirely.
    Instead we get proposals cut popular programs like Medicare and SS.

    We need a balanced budget amendment!

  • Verus Langham

    I noticed that the Dems only apparent agenda for this voting was to “force the vote to make GOP lawmakers go on the record about their support for the controversial measure.” What are any of those lame-headed professional politicians screwing around with now; where are their own proposals (duh… they can’t initiate because they await further instructions from their Pre-tender-in-chief). It seems to me that the Dems are only capable of ridicule, insult, bullying and all other sorts of mayhem…. can’t they think rationally long enough to try to see outside their box (notice I did not say boxes-they all play in the same sandbox and watch each other like a rabid animal does just before it attacks.. viscously and without a mind as to why or what is going on, en mass and on cue from the puppet-master himself). Seriously, I haven’t cast a vote for the Democratic Party for many years now and in hindsight and coupled with new foresight I am happy for the choice I made back then to vote any candidate who had a clear record of moderate to conservative leanings. Eventually it became clear where the Dems were heading and I just could not dishonor my father, a combat veteran who died in WWII and now rests in a foreign soil that esteems him and his comrades not a whit. However, I do believe the French honor him a great deal more than these liberals who would give our country away for some salt.

    • bob wire

      Correct! The democrats are wanting the GOP to lay down a marker on where “everyone” stands and accept a public accounting of their position on Ryan’s proposal (“plan”)

      Sounds reasonable to me, ~ I believe that’s the way it’s always worked in the past on Capital Hill.

      • GeorgeE

        Bob,

        I’d like to see a vote on whether our Congressional representatives think these plans will go broke if we do nothing. That would shed light on which ones were truly enlightened about our current financial situation and which are not. Once those who voted to keep the present programs as they are without change were properly “tarred and feathered”, then we could get down to the real work of trying to figure out how to make these programs really solvent over the long term without killing the economy doing it. We really need to get past doing nothing, and I hope we can get past the idea that we can simply increase tax rates to fix the problem because that will impair economic growth which will actually hurt tax revenues over the long haul, and demand even higher tax rates.

        • eyeswideopen

          GeorgeE, have you looked at the Clinton tax rates vs the growth we experienced during that time? Higher tax rates have not crippled growth in this country, our history shows that. It also shows that the most recent tax rates (cuts) during Bush years helped cause this problem.

          • GeorgeE

            Eyes,

            It’s true that we had very nice economic growth during Clinton’s years in office. However, I believe we might have had even greater growth had we not increased tax rates. Having said that, one should admit that this is a general rule, and not necessarily the right one for every situation. We have to raise revenue to fund our government (primarily infrastructure and self defense). That’s a fact. The question is how is the best way of doing this. Fundamentally, there are two paths we can take. We can increase tax rates on all or a portion of the population, or we can stimulate economic growth to generate more revenue from existing tax rates. The problem with raising tax rates is that it disincentivizes productivity and investment while raising tax revenue. Over time this leads to slower economic growth. So, in order to get more revenue and stimulate the economy at the same time, we need to hold tax rates where they are and even lower then when we can. We also need to clean up the existing tax codes by simplifying them, primarily by eliminating most, if not all, of the exceptions (loop holes). This would raise more revenue without adding the disincentives that would come with simply raising tax rates.

          • eyeswideopen

            George, hate to bust your bubble, but take a look at the profits being made by major corporations and wall street during this economic crisis. They are all doing more than fine, they are having record breaking profits. It is only small business’ and middle class Americans who are suffering and carrying the load, while the richest are not contributing…please don’t come back with the standard repub retort of the rich supply jobs, as they dont’. 68% of jobs are supplied by small business’. Only 28% of the jobs are from corporations, and they all utilize the tax dodging loopholes to avoid their fair share.

          • GeorgeE

            Eyes,

            You’re not going to get an argument from me on that point. I agree with you. It’s the small businesses that create most of the jobs in this country, not the big corporations. I also agree that we should strip the tax loop holes out of the tax code so it is simpler and fairer.

          • Bud Tugly

            EYES… You comments today are very perceptive.

            Taxes are the price of civilization. Education is the foundation of our country’s future prosperity. It is penny-wise-pound-foolish to let our education fall behind other countries’ for fear of taxation.

            It is also fair that those who have been most blessed by our nation should pay a bit more. it won’t mean one less Bentley and they won’t be skipping any meals.

            Trickle down economics has been proven to be a fallacy.

          • http://deleted Claire

            All these tax breaks that were given to the big corporations, etc. Have they hired any more people? Have they created any additional jobs? I don’t think so. The CEOS are raking in the the dough, right along with the oil companies. And at our expense.

          • Wayne937

            Clinton had a Republican Congress that reigned him toward the center is why we had growth in the 90′s. Without a Republican Congress this would have never happened.

        • bob wire

          Well George, I’m truly not convinced that their thinking is focused on critical thinking but partisan politics. For as we see today, if it was up to many inside the GOP and “their beliefs”, America would be out of the car manufacturing business today and all the people that was employed by them and the thousands of supporting industries would be looking for work.

          As soon as a democrat captured the 1st chair position the sky has been falling according the GOP. ~ So no, such a vote, I would lend little credence too for the most obvious of reasons.

          Mich early only parroted Rush, “their “JOB” was to is see all the 44th president of the United State initiatives were too FAIL!” He told you and he told me and the rest of the world,~ unashamed, void of remorse and full of defiance.

          So considering such harsh partisan words from the highest raking GOP member, I ask you ~ why would you find interest in such a jaded vote?

          It’s very clear GOP leadership has little interest in the well being in the majority of Americans if any administrations “failure” is seen as so sort of a “WIN” to ANYONE!

          You explain that to me and I’ll look at working to meeting you half way George.

          • GeorgeE

            Bob,

            I think most conservatives and libertarians thought the government should let GM and Chrysler go into bankruptcy so they could be properly reorganized without getting a taxpayer bailout. That’s different than letting the US auto industry go out of business. If they had gone into bankruptcy and couldn’t make it, I imagine more Americans would have been more supportive of government help to give them a chance to stay in business. Unfortunately, for the unions their members, a bankruptcy court would have likely cut many of their benefits to allow the company to compete in a competitive global market.

            It’s my understanding that Rush said he wished Obama would fail because he doesn’t agree with Obama’s policies and ideologies, and he wants Obama’s policies to fail. I can’t believe he would want Obama to fail if Obama magically became a conservative over night. Obviously, Rush generally agrees with Obama regarding the war effort in Afghanistan and Iraq, and keeping Gitmo open. This is all about policy, nothing else.

            If it’s partisan for Republicans to back conservative ideas and policies, why isn’t it equally partisan when Democrats back liberal/socialist policies?

            We MUST bring the federal budget in balance soon or we’re all going to suffer the consequences. That’s just the way it is, regardless what your political leaning is.

          • http://deleted Claire

            To each their own. I will continue to support GM. Besides, my Chrysler Touring Van is awesome. Love it!

          • GeorgeE

            Claire,

            I own two GM autos and am very happy with them. I will definitely give our US auto makers first shot at my next purchase. Personally, I think I get more value from these companies now than the more expensive foreign vehicles, but that’s just my assessment. I’ve also owned a couple Japanese vehicles in the past and they were also awesome as well. However, I bought them at good prices so I got good value which I don’t think is always the case.

      • WayneT

        The Democrats are cowering in their corners thinking they may have to eventually make some type of a decisioin on our hugh debt.

    • Wayne937

      Verus, you may as well as save your typing fingers as you will never, never change the so called Democrats on the forum. They are looking though a translucent glass, and can’t see very well. I think they may be Liberals, or Communist because they all support Obama. You will see what I mean if you follow this forum.

  • WaChar

    sorry, but i have had to realize, admit to myself, that we have been betrayed. House Speaker Boehner has changed. The day after he was placed in the position of Speaker, he returned from a meeting with O’…since that meeting he has failed at EVERY issue he was asked to do by the people of this great nation. He immediately changed his promise to defund O’care and his promise to NOT INCREASE the National Debt limit.
    REALLY…what happened? This administration is out of control and yet we are still being ignored about the issues that the 2010 elections were based on.
    The die-hard Republicans have chosen to do NOTHING but talk…it will cause a split in the conservative vote, which WILL hand the abomination in the White House the 2012 election…
    Also, just to have it said, by letting O’ destroy the support of Israel it will lead to our Creator GOD removing His hand of protection from the USofA…look for it. You can NOT Curse Israel and expect the GOD of Israel to ignore it. His Hand is all that keeps us from the things that can happen to our nation. GOD is Love, but He is also God of Justice, ISRAEL is His.
    As these events unfold, Remember that He loves us enough to have sent his Son, Jesus, so that we could have restored relationship with Him. What other hope is there? Go in His Grace…

    • Wayne937

      I think maybe Obummer has a way of hypnotizing people like he did with the masses in 2008. They gloated over him and some still are. A lot of people are just plain ignorant. This is what will destroy this country. I think we have reached the same crisis as Rome did when it fell. It is so pitiful. Look at all the lives that was lost in protecting this country since its inception. All the great work of the dead wounded military personnel will have been in vain.

      • bob wire

        The only time I’ve ever seen “O” gloat was when he gave Trump a Smack Down, b1tch slapping. ~ Now, I confess, ~ was a gloating of the highest caliber.

      • eddie47d

        Wayne; No one dies in vain if a cause is just yet we now have all these unjust wars. We’ve chosen to become the policeman of the world and that has created resentment not the glory as in past wars like WWII. The soldiers are still respected for doing their jobs and putting their lives on the line. Yet the politicians keep loosing their credibility for getting us involved and few have the guts to say no more. The biggest supporter of our incursion into Libya is John Mc Cain and he actually wants to expand our involvement. Is it patriotism ,false glory or a real concern for other peoples plight. We as a nation need to come to gripes in how much we can accomplish and are we creating more tragedy instead of triumph.

    • eyeswideopen

      WaChar,show me where Obama “cursed Israel, and what did he say that indicated he wants to destroy them? Oh, I can’t wait for your reply. You are watching too much of Fox news.

  • http://none Karl Larsen

    The Government does not want talk about anything. That is why our President keeps changing the question, and walking away from people. In truth he has a lot to think about.

    Consider this: There is a giant debt in our government which appears to keep growing because the Republicans will not raise the Cap on the National Debt and there is no way to hide this for a long time. At some point it will keep money from being available to pay our Military.

    We are headed towards a complete financial melt down in the near future.

    • GeorgeE

      Karl,

      You lost me on the part where the national debt continues to grow because Republicans refuse to raise the national debt ceiling. Seems to me that raising the debt ceiling, which the Dems want to do, allows the national debt to grow, not the other way around.

    • LeRoy Z.

      Good grief!!! Just when you thought you’d heard it all. Keith….the ‘Debt Cap’ does not make the debt grow!!! It’s the overspending!!!! As in spending money we don’t have!!! As in printing fiat money which devalues the money we already have!!! Come on guy, get with the program!!!!

    • Average Joe

      And all this time I’ve had it wrong…I thought that the problem was congress (both sides of the aisle) were spending more than they were taking in (Deficit) and that raising the debt cieling actually creats more debt…..how silly of me…..

      Too often we… enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
      John F. Kennedy

  • Henry Ledbetter

    I agree that we must take the bull by the horns and reign in out of control medicare especially and I just turned 70. In my opinion much could be saved by giving people a choice of natural remedies or going the way of modern medicine. We have just made those choices in regards to my wife being diagnosed with RSD which her surgeon said there is no cure.. His only option was to clip the nerves and do pain blocks. We went outside the box and may have found a cure for RSD but her insurance would pay nothing for the things that we found to work. Our children stand amazed at the progress of their mother and it has been a long way from my taking the rear seats out of the van and putting an air mattress in the back in order for her to travel at all. She is now off all prescription drugs but with no thanks to modern medicine.

    • Wayne937

      Henry, you have my prayers. I wish your wife will. I hope she can live a full life with you and the family.

    • bob wire

      I wish the best in her search for relief Henry.

    • Karolyn

      Wonderful! If only…….. How much money could be saved by going natural instead of allopathic!

  • Ron

    If you keep on doing what you’ve always done, you will keep on getting what you always got.

    • bob wire

      LOL! now if by chance some might except that as a lead pipe cinch and change their ways ~~ naw ~ too simple and require getting a firm grip on self and be mindful of your thoughts.

    • bob wire

      Besides, we don’t want to change, ~ we want the world to change!

  • s c

    This can’t come as any surprise, people. Congress farts around, hasn’t a clue as to priorities, and always looks at Medicare the same way they look at food stamp fraud. Throw money at it, and it “has” to get better (barf!).
    They haven’t a clue, because they’re too busy perpetuating incompetence and unearned job security. Do the math, America. Connect the dots, and see the crap for what it is. If you think for one minute that we have a good or a competent government, you are a willing part of the problem.

    • http://deleted Claire

      I have done the math, I have connected the dots and I arrived to this conclusion: Republican, Democrat, it will make no difference who is elected. I have tried and tried to give them the benefit of a doubt, and I will continue to try for awhile longer and see what happens. So far, I am not impressed. To me, at this moment, I don’t think either party has the capabilities that are required for a good honest government. Honesty, intelligence, decency, common sense, logic, compassion, rationality has been replaced with greed and self-gratification.

      • GeorgeE

        This happens when you give too much authority to a central power and then flood them with money from “leeches” who want special favors and from taxpayers who have to involuntarily give them a substantial portion of their income, and then have inadequate oversight as to how that money is spent.

  • jopa

    Senate Democrats block path to prosperity;What a title for this article and it is truly an understatement.Ryans plan is designed to take the medical benefits away from seniors to give yet another tax break for the corporations and the filthy rich.The $6,000 voucher will be enough to cover a funeral but not any type of health care.The reason Medicare came about is that nobody would insure seniors and now they think the insurance giants will have a change of heart.I don’t think so.The trickle down effects of the Bush tax cuts has been in effect for over twelve years now and it isn’t working so it has to go.Time for a reality check and we have to get America back on it’s feet and not pander to the rich and corporate America.

    • Wayne937

      If SS is going broke, which I believe it is as both parties agrees to this, why in the world arn’t the Democrats scared to come up with their own plan, Jopa. Come on Democrats, bring up your own plan instead of always critizing others who are at leasting sticking their necks out for trying. This is what’s so flustrating with the Democrats. We all know they are only trying to buy votes, and the hell with the country as long as they get voted back in. I think paul Ryan has more courage in his little finger than all the Demmocrats put together. The Democrats could not even come up with a budget when they had the majority. I can’t believe we still have people sticking up for these negligent Congress Members such as these Democrats.

      • eddie47d

        Wayne; Painful cuts have to be made and should involve everyone. This issue does concern the prosperity and security of all Americans. I’m tickled to see Ryan coming up with an alternative plan but I don’t see it working for the benefit of the majority. It seems to be more selective help for a select few which will divide us even more. Vouchers is just another name for taxes wrapped up in a prettier package.Republicans can’t raise taxes so they call it something else. The paper had a chart last week that said his plan would cost us $60 billion more and another plan (Americare) would save us 10 billion. Medicare doesn’t have to fail and we need to keep listening to all plans until we can get it right.

        • eyeswideopen

          Hands clapping.

        • WayneT

          Eddie47d, if this is the case, why don’t they work together to get a good bill that we can all agree with? I have not seen the Democratics put anything on the table yet. Why it that so hard to do?

          • eddie47d

            The Americare Plan is a Democrat plan offered by Pete Stark. Check it out and maybe those in Congress can find common ground. It’s less costly than Ryans plan and covers more citizens. Great nations can do great things if we set our minds to it.

          • GeorgeE

            Eddie47d,

            It’s hard for me to believe that Pete Stark’s plan would cost less than the Ryan plan. The reason being the Stark plan enlarges Medicare by providing healthcare to everyone and charges employers and the government for the bill. I doubt there has ever been a government program like this that came in at or under estimates. The primary reason is that when people think they are getting something for free, they don’t watch how they spend the money. Also, when you put politicians in charge of the program they play politics with it and that also runs up the cost. When you put people in charge of spending the money for their own healthcare (or anything else for that matter) they watch every dime they spend. That’s how you keep costs down for healthcare while getting the most value for the money. Ryan’s plan comes closer to this ideal in my mind.

          • JeffH

            GeorgeE, if Pete Stark wasn’t in California he wouldn’t be holding any elected office and would probably be in jail. Pete Stark rivals Nancy Pelosi for rudeness to the American people. His attitude is “I’m from the government and I don’t give a s**t what you want, I’ll decide” and well known for his contemptuous behavior and low regard for the “commoners” in his district.
            http://www.uncoverage.net/2010/08/rep-stark-raving-mad-rants-again/

          • GeorgeE

            JeffH,

            I’ve seen Pete Stark on TV interviews and have been VERY, VERY unimpressed. He comes across as an arrogant SOB, if you ask me. It’s hard to see how anyone like him could get elected in any district, but then there are other such examples when you look around.

      • http://yahoo Ruth

        Wayne, I’ll tell you what I would love to see: All members of Congress having to draw from the same social security fund that seniors have to. Put their funds in the same one seniors have to use. It should be on a ballot in November. Lawmakers draw from the same fund taxpayers do!
        What is really sad is Odumbo is giving foreign countries that hate us 40 billion dollars in aid yet they can’t give seniors a cost of living raise in 3 years! These people have worked all their lives and the prices of food and medication has skyrocketed but they only care about getting reelected in 2012 – a lot of them are in for a big rude awakening come election day!

  • Don

    jopa, and obamas plan is to destroy this country, and ( only ) promise the poor ( for their vote ) so he can finish the job he started, we can’t spend our way out of debt, if you believe we can then your dumber than a box of rocks, and i think some will agree with that !!!

    • WayneT

      Don, we are only wasting our time with these Liberals. They have a one track mind. They will never turn the coin over to see what’s on the other side. Its such a shame to have a narrow mind like this!!!!

      • bob wire

        as you run on a two way street? ~ I don’t think so Wayne. It’s Wayne way or the high way !

        With such sweet talk that comes for your lips, do you truly expect to win anyone over?

        it’s true , I understand some people do like debasing and humiliation. That must be the kind of people that you seek!

        Well? ~ Good luck with that. ~ if ever you figure out that it not really working for you so well ~ try changing the way you look at others! just a hint.

        • WayneT

          I am sorry, Bob Wire, that you can’t understand what I am saing. I did not expect you to understand. I put it out there in black and white. If you don’t understand it, that is your problem. Congress does not get it either, otherwise, we would not have a $13.3 trillion dollar debt. We need to get rid of the biggest part of Congress, and Obummer, in 2012. I hope the folks will see the light by then. I don’t see gasoline prices coming down any time soon, consumer goods are rising very rapidly. If the unemployment rate stays around 9% by 2012, gasoline prices stay around $5.00 per gallon, and if the consumer goods prices keep rising the way they have been, I see Obummer and a few of his Zombies losing in the 2012 election.

          • bob wire

            Oh I understand, I’m confronting the center of the universe.

      • Bud Tugly

        That’s what liberals think about conservatives. Maybe it’s time we stopped be so intransigently convinced we are right and the other person is wrong and recognize that we are all flawed mortals and that a person with another opinion about problem solving is not evil, just looking at it from another perspective. There are many ways to love one’s country.

        The Taliban is absolutely convinced that they have the sole way to relate to the Supreme Being, all compromise is evil, and anyone who is not one of them is an infidel deserving of death. Have a dim view of the Taliban? Make sure you don’t find one in the mirror.

        • WayneT

          Bob, i agree with you to a certain point. I do believe we need to get our debt paid down, we need the unemployment rate to go down, we need lower gasoline prices. If Obummer would would only give the oil companies permits to drill in this country, that would help bring down the oil prices and the employment rate. When gasoline prices come down everything else will come down in price. I can’t see where I would ever change my mind on these things I mentioned. Without fuel we would not have anything in the country, period. Everything is centered around oil, coal, nuclear with hydo being in the least demand. I just can’t, and I won’t concede these things I mentioned above to the Communist Democrats.

    • bob wire

      Don, I don’t see such a plan. “O” has promised the poor the same thing he has everyone else. ~ now you might not like that, but there’s little need in you making things up as you go.

      You are entitled to your opinion, I wouldn’t want to deny you of it but you opinion is only as good as what you can support them with.

      This gives you more opportunity to just make more stuff up or actually inform yourself and not be a simple ditto head. In any case, just repeating something you heard ~ fails to many it so.

      And “O” is just one person and can do little by himself, ~ since I helped send him to the hill and support him (to date), it is my plan. ~ Why would I want to destroy, the land of my birth, the land I served proudly to defend, the land I have a family of 659 living relatives strong?

      • WayneT

        Bob, you talk in circles and are hard to follow.

      • GeorgeE

        Bob,

        My plan is to defund and/or repeal Obamacare because it is going to bankrupt our country if we don’t. How’s that for a plan?

        • bob wire

          Wayne , I was responding to Don, ~ follow the small line up.

          and George, ~ you are a breath of fresh air around here of sorts. Welcome, you are needed here.

          But I think unfunded wars to nowhere and trade unbalances will break us well before HCR might.

          George, it’s clear you are a thoughtful, principled man that meters his words. ~ You know and I know any Federal Government program left unchecked for any length of time is most harmful. So why ask me to defend a Federal program projected into infinity?

          Government is to steer and guide as the road and demand dictates. Government is not set in concrete. This should not be so hard to understand or convey to nay Sayers that simply oppose change. People will complain regardless of the choices made.

          It’s always been grow or die ~ there is no middle ground in the life cycle.

          Today’s first line of defense in medical care is the emergency room which is the most expensive care and often too late and very crowded ~AND we tax payer pick up the tab the treated can not pay via our local property taxes. ~ So the cost is not avoided either way.

          Not to mention the fact, Federal taxes dollars subsidies many employers that offer major medical insurance to their employees, ~ offering a cost break in coverage and group rates, while the self employed in paying their taxes but deprived the privilege and in my cast , even coverage at any price.

          So there is a lot wrong with the old system that many claim they like ~ Well? no wonder! I can see why they might like such a setup. They’ve became so use to it, they believe that they are paying retail and owe no one anything with a sense of entitlement earned.

          I suggest to you, medical care should not even be profit driven! Which of course opens up a whole new family size can of worms that no one is even prepared to discuss today.

          We can afford what we choose to afford George. Much of these current wars are due in part to the end of the cold war and a huge war machine complex left twitting their thumbs. They don’t like to do that, it’s not profitable and the last thing they plan to do is close up shop. We can afford unfunded war for 11 years! So it’s a choice that we make, or actually it’s been made for us.

          and I agree with you in regards to federal taxes and the serious need for some kind of reform that is more equitable to all concerned. This however will bring forward even greater protest from all corners of society. But I believe everyone should be engaged in paying for their government, no matter how small or large.

          • GeorgeE

            Bob,

            Thanks for your kind words of encouragement. I appreciate the opportunity to toss around ideas on critical subjects like we have here in this forum. Thanks for all the opposing views expressed in a thoughtful manner. I’ll try to extend the courtesy as well.

            My thoughts regarding your comments:

            Unfunded wars – We should not enter into wars that we are unwilling to pay for. However, we don’t have to pay for them in the year the bill comes due. These affairs are an extraordinary expense that hopefully don’t come along every day, so the expense needs to be spread out over a few years, but does need to be paid. The good news, if there is any where military conflict is concerned, is that we provide our men and women with the best equipment and training that money can buy so that we don’t have to endure the loss of thousands of lives in a single engagement any longer as we have in the past. Also, military conflicts do generally have end points, unlike most of the social programs we fund. Nevertheless, we should only enter into military conflicts that are necessary, and of course this should require great deliberation before moving forward. The real challenge for us today is to determine when military conflicts are really required and when they are not. It’s good to debate this, but there’s not a simple answer. You may recall that while most folks today will say WWII was a “good” war (obviously one they think we needed to fight), there were many Americans opposed to getting involved in it early on. If the Japanese and Germans hadn’t actually declared war on the US, there’s no telling how long we might have waited to commit our military, and it might have been too late to turn it around in our favor. No one knows the answer. So this debate will go on, as it should, for a long time.

            Government’s role – The government should set the rules of play for businesses and for our society in general, but should avoid becoming an operative part. When the government gets directly involved in the operational part it’s like they are the opposing team and the referee at the same time (post office, for example). Everything that can be done by private business should be done by private business when practical, with efficient government oversight.

            Cost of medical services – You’re right about the cost of emergency services that the taxpayer is currently paying for. It seems pretty obvious to me that the root cause of this expense is primarily due to our illegal immigration problem. So, instead of providing “free” medical insurance and other services to illegal immigrants, we need to “encourage” them to go home. This will save the taxpayer a lot of money at the emergency room and in other parts of our society. We’ve got to get out of the habit of creating one problem that costs us money, then trying to fix it by creating another program with even more money. The one answer to every problem that government gets involved in is to create another program and spend a lot more of our money. However, I know that most Americans don’t have a problem helping needy Americans get basic medical help when and if they really need it.

            We can afford what we choose – Correct, so long as the money holds out. There is a limited supply of money as we now see, and we need to be very careful committing our government to long term programs that never end and tend to get more expensive every year, like most of our social programs. If we had a requirement for a balanced budget over some span of years that’s reasonable, then we would be forced to rethink many of these programs and get rid of the waste. Without this requirement, we just keep raising the debt ceiling and spending more and more money that we don’t have.

            Take care.

  • jopa

    Don;Dumber than a box of rocks.Well some will agree but the majority does not and knows how bad the Ryan plan is.If we let the Bush tax cuts expire and cut out all the tax loopholes we would stand on much firmer ground.The rich for too long have been going to Washington with envelopes of cash to have the tax code written for them to prosper.Time to outlaw lobbying.

    • eyeswideopen

      Jopa, hands clapping really fast!!!

  • jopa

    eyeswideopen; Welcome back and where have you been?Big shake-up here yesterday, got booted off the site for being vulgar and profanities I believe.Several others were censored for being vulgar and said they were going to crow on another site and may not ever come back, like it matters to the world.

    • bob wire

      hmm? ~ oh really ~ I thought I felt a shift in the force several days ago.

      I liked Jeff and Kate, I’ll miss them, ~ what about 141? Mr. Nasty?

      Yes, ~ a social self is required “everywhere” do not permit the ambiguity of cyber space allow you to believe that you can’t be called to account for your words.

    • eyeswideopen

      JOPA, it was interesting to watch how radical he became. When he first started posting, he was not a nut case hater. He actually had some very good ideas a year ago. He was very honest about being on disability and now medicare, while also telling us that he was 4-f during vietnam, and he wanted to serve but couldn’t. I liked him about a year ago. I don’t know what happened to him that he became so hate ridden. I have been busy trying to save my company and it was the year I had committed too helping others less fortunate than my family. I thought I would be helping the “poor”, it turns out, I am helping middle class Americans who are newly poor. It is very depressing and except for the Grace of God, I could have been one of them.

      • bob wire

        it’s the obsession ~ we are all subject to influence . I truly believe that’s what took Rev. Wright. ~ He got more absurd by the year, ` few would cross him. Few would try.

        Don Imus,? ~ come on now , “Nappy Haired Holes “? from a man that public talk was his profession? ~speaking of children?

        Jimmy the Greek?

        Howard Cosell ?

        lately old what his name with MSNBC ?? calling a lady a slut. darn, ED! Ed Schultz.

        You don’t do that! even I know, ~ that won’t float. Period.

      • libertytrain

        I’m guessing it was a glitch in the system – JeffH is posting just fine as his old self.

      • JeffH

        EW says, “He was very honest about being on disability and now medicare, while also telling us that he was 4-f during vietnam”.

        Still honest, don’t hate anyone and never have, never said I was 4-F and do collect from MY Social Security account, which I also lost about $400 a month because I was able to take it early because of my disability and I am now enrolled in Medicare, which I paid into and continue to pay for. Never collected a penny from SSI. I’ve never had to lie then, because others had poor memories and posted hateful and personal comments on pure heresay, and I don’t have to lie now.

        I’ve never denied any of this, it is the misinformation with the personal and hateful delivery that I have always denied. You are all not quite as sharp as you think you are.

        Just thought I would set the record straight.

    • JeffH

      Unfortunately jopa, it seems you still can’t get your facts straight much like others who occasionally post on this board.

      • eddie47d

        Sorry Jeff,you lost your consistency. It’s like you threw yourself overboard and came up a different person. You go to extremes and flip flop in attitudes. Some comments you are compassionate and calm then on others you become shallow and narc’d out.(butt azz mean)

        • JeffH

          eddie, can you say bah, bah, bah one more time. You are so overmatched around here, and not just by me. Get a clue some day.

        • JeffH

          By the way eddie, you’ve earned everything you get from me, and everyone else, and then some. Stop being such a dit and a hypocrite and you just might be surprised by some people around here.

          • eddie47d

            You are the professional hypocrite Jeff in your self aggrandizement. EWO got you pegged which I’ve known for quite some time. You are the one who needs to get a clue in your mean and hateful comments. Your attack on the SMSgt is one of many where you just don’t get it. Calling him a phony shows what a phony you are. You remind me of Dick Cheney in how you have something in common. You both try to make up for things in the past by being arrogant and full of bluster. Taking your John Wayne act on the road to impress people with your short comings. That is written all over you so which face are you wearing today?

          • JeffH

            eddie, your total ignorance and lack of perception is nothing short of astonishing.

            Would Polly like another cracker? bbbaaarrraaaccckkk!

          • eddie47d

            Still playing Queen of Denial!

          • JeffH

            Polly more crackers? hhhyyypppooocccrrriiittteee!

          • eddie47d

            I see you are back to sheep herding. Picking out your favorite for the night? LOL Go back to accusing Liberals of being child molesters and the other assorted trash you spew.I will fight the puke on this site and all their falsehoods every chance I get.Conservative propaganda doesn’t intimidate me it only gives me more reason to fight back.

          • JeffH

            To be ignorant of one’s ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.
            -Amos Bronson Alcott

      • bob wire

        Well? ~ whatever! glad you are here and I’m not prepared to explore your exploits and history, sorted as they might seem. ` It’s of little import to the issue afoot.

        We’ve all got a story, if you have truly lived a hearty life as I have been so blessed.

        Like they say, “you ought’ta see the other guy!”

        Lay down a solid argument and I’m happy.

        • JeffH

          bobby, we don’t often see eye to eye but at least I have some resect for you.

  • Average Joe

    Simple solution to the budget cuts. Projected budget is 3.6 trillion dollars…cut 25% from every single government funded program…no exceptions…savings?….900 billion dollars over the course of the budgetary period…..The left gets 75% funding of all progams…the right gets 900 billion in cuts instead of the proposed measly cuts….and nobody gets screwed…including….the taxpayers!….Who can argue with that?( I realize someone out there will argue against something so logical…I’ll consider the source). We can either pay a small percentage now….or will will pay at 100% loss later……The Empire is comming to an end….do we wish to go gradually….or just bottom out one day with no warning …other than…”Thank you very much people for all of your prosperity…you’re on your own”.

    Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
    Douglas Adams

  • WayneT

    I am very disappointed with some of the folks on this forum. If seems like their minds are set in concrete. They do not try to have an intelligent discussion. Trying to have a good decent, intelligent discussion on this forum, is like beating a dead horse to get it to move. I am about ready to pull the plug and move on and senp my time on better things to do. I just want a good honorable government that is working for everyone, not just a few. I don’t feel we have that now. I have expressed the way I feel, time, and time again, in previous forums. Just give me a good honorable & decent man to vote for, regardless of his political party, that haves the best interest of the country in mind, and I will vote for that person.

    • WayneT

      Sorry about the typos.

      • bob wire

        Well, I’d stay with you but! There is yard work to do.

    • Karolyn

      You’re right, Wayne. I was just reading the great discussion that was going on and really learning some things, and then someone pops in and starts denigrating liberals! Like bob wire says, “live and let live.” – a great motto to live by!

      • libertytrain

        I agree, it’s tiresome when either side does it in the middle of an interesting dialogue and I think we’re all a little guilty of that now and then but don’t recognize when we do it, or if we do are real sorry that there’s no delete button at our hands. :)

      • WayneT

        Not when you see them ruining our nation, Karolyn.

  • azwayne

    I really don’t understand how so many are can be so misled by the liberal media propaganda machine. It shows in all your comments. I haven’t noticed anyone here that really had the facts like you read the plan or had all the factual information. Sure see a lot of quoting and mentioning one liners from propaganda of white house. but if you’re going to discuss you ought to use facts. Maybe if our congress is going to discuss they ought to learn about what they are discussing. They have never used medicare have never looked at medical bill or how it gets paid, that’s what medicare is all about. Since medicare was enacted politicians started to ruin it, they call it improving. Every time they fixed they made it worse. The list is too ling for here, but major examples you probably can’t find a description of what it covered or how it worked. I have been involved by selling medicare supplements and all kinds of health insurance since inception, now have 2 parents age 93 had father die under it 2 years ago at 93. Guarantee medicare was never designed to include prisoners and disabled druggies. But check records now. Since inception they knew it wouldn’t survive but by raping taxpayers get all you can. When they budgeted what they planned for, 10 times the costs now. They’ve shifted to patients with individual and group insurance paying what they don’t want to with medicare. Not even 20% of congress knows anything about insurance and we’re going to let them solve the problem? It’s only the political football to get headlines and convince the uninformed how great the are(aren’t).
    JOPA, go some where else and try to do something worthwhile, your cult provided one liners are too old and abused. informed voters are way above your inept comments.

    • Wayne937

      azwayne, I don’t have all the facts either, but I can clearly see your point. I agree with what you say. Most Liberals will never see it. At times it just take some one with good common horse sense to see what you are saying. Of course you know the Liberals do not look at both sides of th coin. It appears they do not have any ability to analyze things. Plus, they think they know everything.

    • bob wire

      How about these facts, ~ that with the help of Ronnie’s deregulation and my friend, what facts did you just offer us, ` that you didn’t approve of our facts? Hmm? ~ I see your point.

      How about these facts, ~ that with the help of Ronnie’s deregulation in the early mid 80′s and the 31 years that followed we enjoyed 20 years under GOP administrations and in this period of 31 years, 2 % of American wage earner , aprox. 200 families now own and control over o 60% of America’s wealth. While the underemployed, working poor struggles to avoid joining the ranks of 40 million Americans now on our welfare rolls, as middle class discretionary comes under attack by predatory lending practices , wall street speculators, wall street bankers that mislabel and sell products world wide, and are bailed out by tax payer dollars while given “Performance Bonus” for their handy work an a 8 year, do nothing SEC office, a lap dog from a Attorney generals office, Two unfunded wars , 11 year military engagements and tax breaks for the most wealthy among us, just for grins?

      We find ourselves today in sort of a pickle and you wish to blame the turd in your pants on someone other then the person you know best.

      • WayneT

        Hey Bob! if you have common sense you don’t always need all the facts. Where do you get your facts from, some Liberal Website. Common sense is when you use one, or more of your five senses, see, hear, smell, feel and taste, and then to be able to process these things corectly within your brain. Bob, regardless what a Conservative may tell you, your always will come back with a lot of hot air trying to twist things around to suit your own short sided ideology. You believe your way, and I will believe in the right way.

        • bob wire

          Wayne I lived it and don’t require being “told” ` where do you get your “facts”,~ at the check out counter of the super market?

  • jopa

    azzwayne;My poor fellow American.Having a hard time swallowing reality??

  • David Bess, Carson City, Nevada

    IT dosen’t matter if we pass the Ryan budget because the Democrats want to means test social security and medicare. When that happens then the people that worked, built a life, and paid into the system won’t qualify under means testing. SS and medicare will be given to the loosers that bled the system dry.

  • i41

    SS and Medicare should be means tested, no reason we are letting people in Congress, Bill Gates, Former elected smucks and banking slubs to get more free taxpayer benefits. People who survive on S and need medicare got hosed by former and currant elected bastards, so now they get to see how the average Joe Blow and Sally Homemaker live in the real world, compared to stock market manulipators the workers bailed bailed out.

  • chuckb

    bob wire, you sound like a true progressive, spread the wealth and when you have destroyed the economy, blame it on the ones that made it. such logic. most third world nations operate under that premise.

    • bob wire

      Well Thank you Chuck! I’m humbled by your remarks, ~ I do try to spread the wealthy whenever I can. I’m 42 years in trade independence business man. ~ with no help from government but in spite of government and knowing little else. Three family’s depend on my decisions for their well being. And thanks to Social Security and father’s retirement and a $852.00 per month Major Medical policy my senior parents are self sustaining and they do not require my financial assistance. I just check on them a few times a day, which is easy to do since I bought a home right next door after giving up my adventuring ways.

      I do believe that if you want something done, you need to make it worthy their wild for them to considered you wishes and do it gladly. I do want them to cosider that it’s in their best intest

      • eddie47d

        They can be a sad bunch Bob W with way too much self loathing on how they built America and the rest of us just sat around living on food stamps. LOL

    • WayneT

      chuckb, Bob is a Progressive Liberal. I don’t know where he gets all his infomation from. He must be a walking library.

      • bob wire

        I am a true fiscal conservative, when I’m done with something it’s completely worthless and I’ll permit you to describe yourself but If I had to ~ I would just say “Child” with intentions. We all start at one point process to another and learn a little along the way. When to get to the point that you don’t feel very smart, you’ve finally got smart.

  • Wayne Wathen

    Prosperity for who? Somehow I have a little problem swallowing all this when your hero Ryan received $833, 753 in campaign contributions from employees and PACs of insurance companies in the 2010 budget cycle along including $48,650 from Blue Cross/Blue Shield. I think Medicare definitely needs to be changed and revised but not sold to the insurance companies so they can continue to fund Ryan and others for their prosperity.

    • bob wire

      That’s what I’m talking about! What’s good for the snake is rarely good for the frog. Ryan is being prop up and serves one master, “money” and will say what he is told to say and do what he is told to do.

      I found out about such things with Reagan ~ when he said, “Let us wake up this sleeping giant!” Little did I know that his plans excluded me! I not only voted for him but helped get the vote in here is north Texas!

      I was in the wrong spot I suppose, working in the private sector in a town that was home to Rosy the Riveter and the Liberator Bomber and subject to “downsizing” and closing. We went thu some rough years with Ronnie Rayguns plans for the future, but that’s okay, we endured it. I hope you enjoyed it.

      Good News was the (Major/retired)Father-in laws got appointed to Human Resources for three states for all of our families campaigning efforts but no place was there for a Plumber. Oh well? all that glitters is not gold.

      Some days you are the bug and some days your are the windshield.

      I’ve earned my strips to be here and sound off more then once Chucky darling, So tell me Chucky dearest, what have you done for the good of your country in your whole life beside just lip off?

    • WayneT

      Let’s face it Wayne, I think most of Congress are crooked. Let’s vote them all out in 2012 along with our so called president.

  • chuckb

    wayne w, like obama care.

  • Wayne937

    My handle should be Wayne937. I don’t kmnow how it got changed to Wayne T.

    • libertytrain

      My name seems to be automatically there when I post. Perhaps you didn’t change it when you posted to Wayne 937 and defaulted to your original name?

  • Thinking About

    My my, just because Ryan stated his plan only affected those 55 and younger perhaps he forgot to mention the doughnut hole he would bring back. Where in his plan to save Medicare did input price shopping the Veterans uses. If one is to believe in “capitalism” seems like we missed on this one.

    For those who declare Dems only vote Dems, why are you having a problem when Reps don’t blindly follow what other Reps propose.

    If Ryan was really trying to balance the budget it would not contain tax cuts equal or larger than the cuts he proposed. Don’t like it when a vote was “forced”, then get Ryan to withdraw his budget.

    • GeorgeE

      Thinking,

      This is the second time someone has raised the issue of “donut hole” in the Ryan plan. Please explain.

      Instead of raising tax rates, which most conservatives and libertarians oppose on the grounds that it will slow the economy and eventually reduce tax revenue, why not just simplify the tax code to remove loop holes and subsidies? That’s something that most of us can agree on, I think, and should raise additional tax revenue. If this were done, it might also stimulate economic growth as well.

      • bob wire

        Good idea George. Now think of who might oppose such a move and for what reasons. I think that it would turn into a rabbit hole with patent rights, etc, etc. the ones that benefit from the current setup. It could be done but I’m not sure in doing so we might defeat our intended purpose. But , I’m with you simple is better. i like things straight up when it’s at all possible.

        nite, lights out

        and welcome aboard Bob’s Livingston’s train.

        • GeorgeE

          Bob,

          There’s no doubt that every “whore” company, corporation, other organization that’s currently getting funds from the government would oppose such a move. Nevertheless, we must break this corrupt relationship, and one way of doing this is to simplify the code. By the way, I believe it would also save us taxpayers a lot of money, and possibly stimulate the economy by putting all competitors on a more level playing field. This is an idea that people could get behind if we wanted to. However, when we follow party leadership alone we usually get the Dems calling for reduction or elimination of subsidies and tax breaks to oil companies, farmers, small businesses, and others who aren’t their constituents, while Republicans call for reduction or elimination of subsidies and tax benefits to unions, environmental causes, “clean air” industries, planned parenthood, National Public Radio, etc. Government meddling in the market is seldom a good idea. It usually costs us taxpayers and consumers more money and corrupts the system. So, if cutting subsidies and tax benefits for one industry is a good idea, it’s a good idea for all, I think. Let them fend for themselves in a competitive market. Life would be simpler.

  • chuckb

    bob wire, i’ve been around a little longer than you bobbie, i was in the south pacific while you were a sperm running up and down your old mans imagination. i have been self employed most of my life and not living off the government.
    i doubt very much you voted for reagan and would believe you voted for the muslim sitting in the white house.
    you don’t sound like the real bob wire unless your his ghost writer.

  • Ridge Runner

    One of the best things is get these bunch of thives out of the gov and get the govout of our lives as much as you can. These elites that think they are better than you and keep building the gov bigger are a big psrt of the problem and it needs to change. These thiving elites that keep giving them selfs raises and perks have to be reined in. If they can’t use the same medical care that the people use and the same retirement then they don’t need to be in our face telling the people how to run their lifes.It is still about taking back our gov and has to be done.

  • Henry Ledbetter

    Thanks for the kind words for my wife and I by some of you. Please don’t feel sorry for us because if today was my or her last day on earth we will have been blest. She is doing so much better that we may go work in a camp 350 miles from us in the near future. She works in the kitchen and I normally do some maintenance or whatever needs to be done. The price of a virtuous woman is far above rubies. Seems to me that a voucher system would work well for most and it would surely bring down the cost. To many people today could care less about cost or others but would do better if forced to.choose. and they could build self esteem in the process..

  • Bruce

    what is MSM

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