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Second Amendment Supporters Say England Shooting Spree Offers Cautionary Tale

June 8, 2010 by  

Second Amendment supporters say England shooting spree offers cautionary taleAmerican supporters of gun rights have been electrified by last week’s mass shooting in England and are seeing it as proof that restrictive gun laws, common in Europe, do more harm than good.

Representatives of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA)—an organization that fights to preserve Second Amendment rights—have said that gun prohibitionists often cite UK’s restrictive gun laws as a model. In fact, these laws were further tightened after the Dunblane, Scotland, massacre of 16 school children in 1996.

However, instead of ensuring safety, such measures only "created a risk-free environment for the gunman to carry out his despicable act," CCRKBA said.

"When armed Americans fight back shooting sprees are stopped," said the organization’s chairman Alan Gottlieb.

He added that "the architects of British gun laws, and those who would force such laws on the United States, should take a lesson from that."

On June 2, 52-year-old Derrick Bird went on a shooting rampage in northwest England, killing 12 people and wounding another 25 before killing himself. ADNFCR-1961-ID-19816911-ADNFCR

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  • Jim H.

    It makes me appreciate the Founding Fathers even more. They made sure we were not a part of England anymore and had the wisdom to include the 2nd amendment to our Bill of Rights. What can you expect from a country that doesn’t even know what side of the road to drive on.

  • angel-wanna-be

    You can restrict, regulate, and control guns all you want. Sadly, If someone snaps, there is little anyone can do, without a gun to stop them, then you become a victim as well. It’s not the average American that needs gun control. It’s the criminals and the whack jobs. Unfortunately and sadly, you can’t control that until, they commit a crime or go on a killing spree. No one is mind reader and can’t predict crime, or ward off an individual who might snap, unless there’s a history of it.

    • independant thinker

      “It’s not the average American that needs gun control. It’s the criminals and the whack jobs. Unfortunately and sadly, you can’t control that until, they commit a crime or go on a killing spree.”

      If the states and more impoortantly the feds enforced the laws concerning felons and firearms it would help. It is supposed to be an automatic 5 year stay in a federal prison if a convicted felon handles a firearm in any fashion and I think they cannot legaly even handle live ammunition.

      • angel-wanna-be

        Independent thinker, I don’t want anyone controlling me to the point, I can’t defend myself, be it a gun, a friggin baseball bat, or a sharpened pencil, I know how to use them all!. Gun Control and massive regulation there of, punishes the innocent. There will always be abusers of anything, and criminals will always slip through the cracks, and get a gun if they want it!!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Did you read where the UK officials had to drop pursuit as the criminal kept shooting at them and the coppers in the UK are not armed. Immagine that, the only ones that are armed there are the crooks!! What a crock!

          • angel-wanna-be

            JoeH, My God Joe, we’d have to stay locked in ours homes,nowhere would be safe__ fat chance of that, too!!

          • angel-wanna-be

            JoeH, cops that aren’t armed___I’d hightail my azz outta the UK on the next pelican, as quickly as possible!___LMAO

          • http://?? Joe H.

            They sure made a mistake letting that part of the story out. Now any big time crook worth his weight will head for the UK to scope it out!!!

        • independant thinker

          Angel……………I said nothing about controlling you or anyone else except felons breaking the laws stating they cannot handel a firearm in any fashion. I also did not say the enforcement of those laws would stop criminals from getting firearms I said the enforcement of the automatic 5 year sentence would help.

          • angel-wanna-be

            Independent Thinker, Law enforcement can only control the felons IF they catch them. Then, If they do enforce the laws already in place, as you suggest, a five year extension, it may stop a certain percentage of them returning to a life of crime. But I believe history shows most a criminal are repeat offenders. Criminals always have the upper hand, simply because they don’t operate within law. While law enforcement has to handle the whole prosecution, within the confines of the law.__ I also believe if we stop treating jailed criminals, as hotel guests, they’d think twice about crime as well__I also believe, that All 50 States are in need of a “Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County as their sheriff”.___Bottom line is the criminals have the upper hand, period. Eventually they get theirs, but usually at the hands of someone elses suffering.

          • rwnut

            independant thinker…That’s exactly what I thought you said.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            independant thinker,
            As Angel sid, the cops can only control thre crooks if they catch them. but it only does any good when the courts back them up and give the crooks what they deserve!

    • Claire

      angel– Good choice of words.

      • angel-wanna-be

        Thanks Claire!

        • rwnut

          angel-wanna-be…Are you saying we should allow felons to possess firearms,or we should not enforce the mandatory sentence of a felon in possession of a firearm? I think that’s all he said.

          • angel-wanna-be

            NO!__No Criminals Handling firearms, and Yes to maximum mandatory sentencing._and these lawmakers have got to stop treating felons like they’re hotel guests!__

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Here in Ohio, we have a manditory seven year penalty for using a firearm in the commision of a crime. In the last 5 years, I could probably count on both hands the number of times it has been handed down. They always bargain down to get an easy conviction. what about their victims?? how do they “bargain down”? Are they able to bargain back the lives of their loved ones? Can they get back their daughter or son? How about their spouse or even themselves???

          • rwnut

            JoeH…I am just saying that Independent thinker didn’t say what angel-wanna-be said he said.Probably unintentional.Add a little here,take a little there,and pretty soon the person is saying something he did say.Better petition the Ohio system to enforce those laws thier not enforcing.

          • rwnut

            JoeH…By the way,I did’t say anything about those victims.I agree, it’s wrong. But someone in Ohio is letting those victims down.Like Independent thinker said,they ought to enforce those mandatory enhancement laws.

          • rwnut

            JoeH…Go back and re-read Independent thinker,6/8 at 1:49 pm.
            angel-wanna-be,6/8 at 2:23 pm.

            Plain and simple.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            I wasn’t implying anything about you, perhaps I posted without proof reading, I don’t know. I was making a statement to you as fact not arguing with you. Independant made the statement that it was a manditory five years. I did read the posts.


    Wonder what would have happened if there would have been a concealed carry permit holder at the crime scene? Bet the outcome would have been different. Nope….Not allowed in England so they will have to live with their losses.

  • Mike N.

    The anti-gun minority claims that if they save one life by banning guns it will be worth the effort. If they lose thirty or more because of gun bans, would that be worth it also? The fact is, more lives are saved because of private gun ownership. The liberal, anti-gun media refuses to report the stories of home/self defense because it proves they are wrong and it goes against thier communist agenda. This country has’nt been invaded by a foreign military power since the war of 1812 because they fear that there would be an armed citizen behind every tree. People like george soros, nancy,and harry know that it is hard to conquer and enslave an armed populace.

  • David Warheit

    For the most recent years for which statistics are available, there were 10.26 gun deaths per 100,000 inhabitants in the US. In England/Wales the number was 0.38 (Scotland was 0.28). This means that the US gun death ratio is TWENTY-SEVEN TIMES THE RATE IN ENGLAND/WALES. If you only look at homicides, the corresponding numbers were 3.98 and 0.15 (Scotland was 0.06). This means that the US homicide gun death ratio is TWENTY-SIX AND ONE-HALF TIMES THE RATE IN ENGLAND/WALES. Wake up and smell the cof–I mean the gun powder, everybody. We in the US live in the deadliest society in the world. It’s time we did something about it.

    • Al Sieber

      Yeah! we need to arm ourselves. you need to move to England.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Linda


      • s c

        Al, some people were brought up to put their faith in polls, statistics and theories. The rest of us were brought up to put faith in that which WORKS.
        We know from experience not to trust polls, stats or theories that are long on ‘maybe’ or ‘it feels so good.’ The rest of us live in the REAL world.
        Some people believe in Peter Pan and Mary Poppins. The rest of us put our trust in reality and things that deserve our trust.
        People like DW have never had to live in the real world. He may think Obummer is a god (some do, though I’ll never understand it). If DW has so much faith in England or Australia (or Russia or China), he can always MOVE there, and put his theories to the TEST. Do you think he has the GUTS to do it? Everyone who knows the difference between theory and fact knows he DOESN’T.

        • Al Sieber

          Sorry sc, I got carried away with that response. it’s just I live a different life then most of you. I’m a geologist and a gold miner, and I’ve had lots of incidents where a firearm has saved my life, and I live and work in remote areas, sometimes the law is 2-hrs. away if I’m lucky, and everyone here is armed and we don’t think nothing of it. I just don’t understand the way some people think. sorry for the rant.

        • Al Sieber

          Oh yeah sc, in answer to your question, I don’t think he has the guts to move anywhere.

        • angel-wanna-be

          sc, your right, Stats of ANY kind can and are manipulated!

      • Allan


        Right on. And thank you sincerely for injecting laughter into my day.

    • Mike N.

      How many per 100.000 were killed in automobile accidents? should we ban cars and trucks? How about house fires? Should we ban homes? How many of that 10.26 were criminals?

      • Mike N.

        furthermore, how many were killed by illeagal aliens? How many were killed by suicide? Break down the raw data and you will find that america is safer than most countries that ban private gun ownership.

        • TIME

          Great points, love the car analogy.

          As well more people died from cancer so perhaps we should outlaw cancer too. Oh wait our government made one of the cures something thats outlawed.
          One of the other cures the big Pham co’s can’t make any money on so thats just to bad for the population of the USA. Seem just a tad strange to anyone else?

          But take heart BarryO can feel your pain, – NOT!

          • Dave L

            I say, if they pass a gun ban, the politicians that voted for the ban should be “personally” liable when a mad man goes crazy on the street. $10 bucks says no one would vote for it!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            I remember back when I was younger, Clint Walker impailed himself on a ski pole and actually penetrated his heart. We need a ski pole ban!!! I mean look at what happened to him and it was accidental! what would happen with a determined attacker???

    • Carrie TPT

      Perhaps the “Something” we should do to cut down on violence in America is remove the “Inhabitants” which are not Citizens. Check the Stats with the illegals not counted.

      • TIME

        Spot on!

    • Jim H.

      David, the gun is the weapon. If the gun isn’t handy, a knife or club will do. What is the murder rate per 100,000 in each country? The murderer, not the weapon, is the problem. Good people have used guns to protect themselves from bad people. Do you want to take that away? I know a guy who was threatened by a man with a knife. The guy I know pulled his gun and the man with the knife backed down. NO ONE WAS HURT. When used as a deterrent, many times, it saves all of the lives.

    • Barbara

      Switzerland has the lowest homicide rate in the developed nations. EVERY man is required to be in the military. EVERY home owner is required to own at least one gun.

      • TIME

        Thats 100% dead on.

    • TIME


      Thats like comparing a banna to a pineapple, yes they are both fruit, but thats where the like kind ends. Its kinda like saying that New York is just like Florida, other than the far smaller population of Florida, the higher amounts of rain in Flordia, lower paying jobs in Florida, and the fact that the median age of the population of Florida is 71, where as NY ma is 35, Yet they are both states and both on the east coast. And oddly enogh have nearly the same land mass.

      FYI- Scottland has the highest Violent Crime rates in the world BAR none! Check the FBI and Interpol stats they will confirm that statment.

      **Now Folks this is “”very urgent”” ** Email, call, Fax, and write your congress and senate persons – tell them to express to BarryO that we as a nation will not allow BarryO to sign the UN Small Arms Treaty, that Hillery signed, we will, not allow this behavior.

      **Do this Now and everyday until we are heard, this is a direct attack on the 2nd Amendment.
      Get busy & Wake up others to whats going on, if you have Children and or Grandchildren if you fail them now they will never have what you have had as a life of FREEDOM.

      • DaveH

        Seriously Time,
        Do you think if 80% of the population petitioned Obama to do something he didn’t want to do that it would make any difference? He doesn’t care what we think.

        • TIME

          Dave H,
          The reason we do all the noted Emails, Fax’s and letters calls etc. is that its then “of record,” within the next 36 months its going to go one of two ways.
          One that we the American People who love Freedom will take back our country, and the TREASON TRIALS begin.

          Or we loose – at that point it will make no differance as the death toal from the progressive death camps will stager ones mind.
          And – no – I am not crazy, what do you all think will happen if the Marxist Progressive take 100% control?
          How will they make sure they stay in power if any vestige of resistance is allowed to exist.

          Here is a breif view -
          The first to go will be all who aided them in the rise, as one can never trust a trader.
          Next will be the welfair rolls.
          Next will be all educated who are not in the Progressive Leaders camp.
          Next anyone who is older than 40 years of age. Plus all sickly people.
          Next all Religious types of any age.

          US Population at that point will be less than 40 million all under the age of 40 all Slaves to the state, and in Europe it will be the same deal.

          The model has been set think Germany in the 1930-40′s, Cuba, China, and Russia were all dry runs for what has been in the works for years. Then it will be; Welcome to the New World Order.

          So Yes, its in our own best interest to do what ever we can, I plan on winning this battle and the war on the Progressive Marxist.
          If we don’t fight with the pen now then there is no point in this sight or any other sight and people can just stay sleeping.

          Dave, I know it looks bad now as the spining is going full cycle,
          BUT let me assure all of you as I speak with congress and senate persons every week, we are being heard and they know Americans are waking up daily by the countless thousands.
          We can take our country back, with the PEN and the VOTE!

          So Please people I beg you get busy and make them calls, fax’s and emails letters keep them going, Please don’t stop.

          The few buffoons we have that pop in here and make stupid comments are here due to YOU are making a BIG Differance. Please keep working.

          • JeffH

            TIME, I agree with ya. Keep those emails and letters flowing because it is all a part of the process of defeating these traitors and taking our country back…

          • viktor leben


            In the end only one person will rule ! This is certainly a great age for adventure !

            One person, or a small group of people can make a difference. Just say “NO YOU CAN’T HAVE MY WEAPONS” ……

            Then when they try to take them …. defend yourself…..

      • independant thinker

        According to an article in the “Telegraph,UK” the violent crime rate in the UK was 2,000 per 100,000, I think Germany’s was about 1,500, and France’s 1,400. The rate in the US was about 450 per 100,000 population. The article did not give a breakdown for Scotland vs England vs Wales.

      • Tinkertweater

        “tell them to express to BarryO that we as a nation will not allow BarryO to sign the UN Small Arms Treaty, that Hillery signed….”

        Time, read this>>
        Hillary Clinton And The UN Arms Trade Treaty Rumor

        Friday, May 28, 2010

        We continue to receive numerous inquiries regarding UN international treaties, and their impact on our Second Amendment rights. The latest rumor making its way around the Internet claims that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton actually signed a UN small arms treaty.

        Contrary to this widely circulated e-mail, Hillary Clinton has not signed any small arms treaty. She could not have done so, in fact, because no such treaty has yet been negotiated.

        As we noted in an update from last November, the UN Arms Trade Treaty will be drafted between now and 2012, and even if signed, would not take effect in the U.S. until it was ratified by the Senate.

        Please rest assured that, as we said in November, NRA will be actively involved in this process and will oppose any treaty that would attempt to impose limits on our Second Amendment rights. In the meantime, we urge gun owners to follow this issue in NRA’s magazines and NRA-ILA’s Grassroots Alerts. We also urge gun owners not to circulate misinformation on this issue.

        Copyright 2010, National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action.
        This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.
        11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax, VA 22030 800-392-8683
        Contact Us | Privacy & Security Policy

        Thank you.

        • rwnut

          Tinkertweater…I am a Life member and I wonder how many thousands of people are listening to the misinformation.Every gun owner should subscribe to “Americas 1st Freedom”,and join the NRA,and get the real facts from those involved.

    • DaveH

      The homicide rate (by any means) in England is less than 20% that of the US. They are just a more peaceful people than we have here. You are comparing apples and oranges.
      What next – comparing the gun-death rate in the Vatican to that of the United States?

      The only legitimate argument would be posed by taking a before gun-control and after gun-control look at the same country.

      If you look at Australia, the crime rate is actually up substantially after gun control.

      • DaveH

        I’d be willing to bet that the murder rate for Obama supporters is much higher than for non-Obama supporters. Maybe we should ban Obama-supporters.

    • Robert

      You are right, let’s madate gun ownership!! If the criminals knew that everyone household had means to defend themselves crime rates would plummet. As for myself, if you and your ilk try to take my guns you’d better bring a lunch and a lot of help.

      • Tinkertweater

        Robert, There is a city/town in the State of Georgia which has a law on the books that ACTUALLY DOES require all their home owners to own a gun. I don’t know the name of the municipality but I am sure w/some digging, 1 could find the name.
        Remember that is the BIBLE belt & the deep South where they grow up around guns.
        So your idea isn’t a bad idea.
        I could easily live in a place like that & would be more than happy to comply & just as happy to show compliance on request/demand/order/whatever.


        • independant thinker

          I want to say Kennasaw Georgia but am not sure if that is correct.

    • Jarhead1982

      David What da heck?

      Oh thats right, the countries that have the same amount of murders, violent crime involving a firearm, suicides not reduced and almost 5 times the violent crime rate of the US have factually proven that less guns equals more violence.

      England, go to “Home Office”, then click on – Crime & Statistics, start counting from 1997 to today. You will see that they have always had a low murders by firearms rate. You will see in 1997 they had 445k violent crimes solved, in 2008 1.4 million solved. Murders didnt reduce, violent crimes with firearms didnt reduce. They have 5 times the violent crime rate of the US and they are safer how? What is the cost of thse additional aggravated assaults, hot burglaries, rapes eh?

      Australia, go to “AIC gov” 30% increase in violent crime, twice US violent crime rate and no reduction in murders or violent crimes involving a firearm.

      Canada, go to “Statcan”, no change, twice the violent crime rate of the US, no reduction in violent crimes involving a firearm or murders

      Funny how those same ineffectual results are seen in every single country that implements gun control as a supposed tool to fight violent crime.

      Who was it that said the definition of insanity, is repeating the same failed mistake, over, and over again. That prfectly describes gun control, useless insanity.

      US FBI UCR Database

      See David What the heck thats how true comparison are actually performed from the date of implementation to today, then understanding that societal factors are different between countries. So grow up or quit posting such irrelevant gobbly de gook.

    • viktor leben

      Hey Dave,

      You are interpreting the numbers wrong. In them peaceful countries everybody is related to everybody. Them Scots and Anglos-Saxons marry their cousins. They are homogenous societies (overall) ….

      What it comes down to is individual survival. If someone is about to shoot me (Ouch !) what should I do ? Let him ?

      I kind of look at it this way, IF THE WHOLE WORLD WANTED TO KILL YOU WOULD YOU LET THEM ?

      No way man ! Tell the world to go to hell, I’ll take them out first !! A gun or Nuke, whatever it takes baby ! I will survive and all you UN gun grabbers will fail….

      • BravoBilly

        Being a Scots-Irish surviving Veteran of a SE Asia Operations, I agree with you. However, since I was traveling across state borders, I sold my only weapon at the time.

        I grew up reading my fathers National Rifleman and the stories within of armed citizens protecting themselves. Consequently, I support the 2nd Amendment.

        I also took an oath a while back to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. When I left the service, there was nothing said about not continuing to do so and I think most Veterans feel the same way.

    • Earl, QUEENS, NY

      Comparing the USA to other nations is meaningless double-talk. FIRST, other nations punish criminals more severely, and put them away for good. Thanks to the bleeding hearted liberals, the USA has the problem of revolving door justice. SECOND, the anti-gun nuts never compare crime rates of before/after enactment of tough gun control laws. From what I’ve read, other nations had even lower crime rates before gun bans. THIRD, countries like England and Japan also have low crime rates of any kind, including crimes committed by hand. The British and Japanese DO HAVE 2 hands like Americans, don’t they??

    • Bon, from the Land of Babble

      Colonel Colt didn’t call his revolver ‘The Equalizer’ for nothing!

      As a small, arthritic, overweight female with children, animals and property to protect a gun is THE ONLY CHOICE I HAVE. If I could purchase an UZI, or other automatic weapon, I would, in preparation for the coming food riots. I believe wholly in Women’s Rights–the right to carry and conceal a gun!

      Because the ONLY thing that stops a rape or an assault is a gun!

      I heard John Lott on the radio a while ago and he reports that one to two million crimes are curtailed simply because a potential victim brandished a gun. When former talk show host Larry Elder opened up his phone lines asking, ‘Have you ever used a gun to save your life?’ He said the phone bank lit up like an Xmas tree.

      On his show, in response to the gun question, I heard story after story of homeowners, business owners, females in cars with kids, elderly out on walks tell tales of producing a gun in the face of criminals and that, and only that stopped the criminal in his tracks–the vast majority of those who presented a weapon felt they would have been dead save for their gun. I’m sure some of the stories were bogus, but I’d bet most of them weren’t.

      Asked if any called the police the answer was always the same: Hell No! Who needs the aggravation? Plus, I’d bet many of the guns are unregistered. That matters little when one’s is life is in peril.

      Self defense is a Civil Right. Anti-gun politicians like hypocritical senator feinstein in California either reserve the right to carry for themselves–while fighting tooth and nail to make sure YOU can’t protect and defend yourself and loved ones with deadly force–or live behind iron gates with 24 hour guards.

      YOU, however are a drone, a peon, a slave of the state. You are not smart enough (unlike them) capable enough (unlike them) of handling and especially carrying guns! Why, you might get into a shoot-out in a parking lot over a parking space, or you might feel, since a gun is available in the house, like shooting your husband dead because he refuses to do the dishes.

      Therefore, YOU because of your carelessness and stupidity (not them, of course) must be rendered defenseless and open prey to vicious criminals who won’t hesitate to use a gun on you and your loved ones.

      Don’t you know the government is disarming you for your own protection? Don’t know you that the government only wants what’s best for you?

      After all, guns cause crime!

      And make no mistake: As the economy worsens, as unemployment runs out, as the welfare gravy train dries up–the parasitic class WILL take to the streets and they will come after ‘the haves’–that’s YOU.

      The government is made up of liars and hypocrites who wish to disarm the populace and increase their control over our lives–how can they implement their desired authoritarian, command/control, police state if the kulaks are armed?

      Just ask the survivors of Tiananmen Square.

      And finally, remember this: A Handgun is a Girl’s Best Friend!

      Spread The Word and Tell Everyone You Know.

      And for God’s sake stop voting for anti-gun, anti-Second amendment candidates such as obama and his minions.

      Bon of Babble

      • Bon, from the Land of Babble

        I left off the last line on my post so here it is:

        ‘God made man and woman, Colonel Colt made ‘em equal!’

        Bon of Babble

  • s c

    Let predators and their friends howl at the moon all they want. The RIGHT to KEEP and BEAR arms is a constitutional RIGHT that is NOT to be negotiated. No one is keeping anti-gun paranoids from moving to a more ‘enlightened country’ like Cuba or Iran.
    Politicians know (whether they admit it or not) that when or if they get bold enough to try and be rid of the 2nd Amendment that they will become fair game for whatever happens. Think of it as turnabout for having had to endure generations of traitors in Washington.
    The 2nd Amendment is a NON-NEGOTIABLE RIGHT! It is a blessing that is designed to keep us safe from those who hate freedom. It is a solution that will force politicians to slither away into the darkness and the safety of holes in the ground.
    It will be put to the test over and over again. If it should happen that CAREER CRIMINALS are able to ‘rid’ themselves of the 2nd Amendment, it is only fair that those who ‘empower’ that infamy to be the first to suffer the consequences. Fair is fair. That, too, is a NON-NEGOTIABLE, fundamental RIGHT.

    • Tinkertweater

      SC, I heard that loud & clear. I agree w/you 100%.


  • http://gmail i41

    Another stat, is the homicide rate in cities with banned guns is what increases our everages nation wide. Also that is where the illegal gangs members shoot each other, just for the hell of it. We can all just try and understand the misunderstood thugs bastards and invite them for a coke (that you drink, not put up your nose) and they will all give up their guns. Ya and if law enforcemnet would seal of blocks at times where the gang bngers hang out, just raise the housing and srart wasting the vermin, two problems solved, no deportation costs, no repeat offenders and save taxpayers money!

  • Ohyae55

    Let’s use Chicago as a good example of gun control that doesn’t work. A few weeks back an 80 year old Korean vet had his home broken into. The perp shot at the man and missed but the 80 year old shot back and killed the thug who, evidently had murder on his mind by shooting first. Mr. Short shanks Daley still hasn’t decided to bring charges against the old man because Daley does have a complete handgun ban in Chicago. Now if the old man didn’t have a gun he and his wife and grandson would be dead. So tell me how gun control on law abiding citizens works in this case? I will await the liberal answer to this one!

    • Ohyae55

      By the the way, murder is up by 3% this year in Chicago!!

      • Dave L

        It’s up in Minneapolis too!

        • angel-wanna-be

          Dave, I saw the murder stats too, are up all over. Washington keeps hiking taxes, while we keep losing jobs, or forking the jobs left over to illegals, morals down, so crime’s up__YAY HOPE AND CHANGE!
          __THE IDIOTS!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          I think kidnapping is gonna drop in pheonix Arizona the second half of this year!!!! Yet, if they include arrests, it might actually go up!!!

  • tennislady

    Very good! I couln’t have said it better, and you are right on every turn, there are secret camps out there, ready for all of us. But I’m 75, so I figured the old would go first, if i’m not already dead!

  • big hammer

    In Los Angeles we had an individual who went on a killing spree with a japanese sword. The victims had nothing to protect themselves with. This shows that by taking away all means of protecting yourself will leave you injured or dead. No controls on swords like guns have!!
    I’ll continued to arm myself and provide a gun for my wife too. Remember, Society is safer when the criminals dont know who’s ARMED!

  • JeffH

    The Association of Chief Police Officers were at the forefront of persuading the Government to ban all legally owned handguns in UK.
    Is the unarmed British bobby outdated? After all, armed police are a common sight in many other countries. Should British police carry guns to protect themselves and others? Or could this make it more likely criminals will arm themselves?

    Some Police officers in the United Kingdom are armed, and they respond to scenes where firearms may be needed. Regular patrol officers are not armed, but they do have pepper spray and batons, and hand cuffs.

    Even the Armed Response Officers do not carry guns on their person. The weapons are in a locked gun safe in their patrol vehicle., and are brought out as needed . They also wear a distinctively different uniform than the regular patrol officers wear, to make sure that the public knows that they may be armed, when needed.. IF they fire their weapons, they are subject to a very detailed investigation, and possible punsihment, if they are found to have acted beyond their remit.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      By all means, we wouldn’t want the mean old Bobbies to hurt that innocent murderer, would we???

  • Tinkertweater

    JeffH, I was a rent-a-cop for about 7 or 8 years (off/on, not consecutive). It was only the last 8 months that I was armed & that was only because I couldn’t afford a gun, altho I really wanted 1. They don’t pay rent-a-cops more than peanuts where I live.
    But finally I had the $s & went to a local sporting goods shop & went for it.
    But before that, I had a baton, pepper spray, & handcuffs.
    So I had the same basic equipment minus a 2way radio, that the average limey cops have or they are not much higher than our un-armed rent-a-cops save for the amount of training they (r-a-c) get.
    Here in the USA, each state’s requirements for their rent-a-cops are diffent. There is no standardization between the states for rent-a-cops. In some states, they require r-a-c to have almost as much training as cops get.
    In other states, you are hired, here is your uniform/badge/ect, grab your gun or not depending on whether it is an armed post or not, & go, which is how it is where I live.
    Other states are inbetween.

  • Jim H.

    My question is in a country with such stringent gun control, where did Mr. Bird get the gun and ammo? Just curious.

  • Tinkertweater

    I have seen email alerts that said that the FBI stats say that more guns = less crime.
    In other articles, the PM of England is wary of any further anti-guns as if he wonders or knows that they don’t work.
    The Pres of the Philipines (Spelling?) is against a total gun ban as a way to fight crime.
    Canada is thinking about easing up on their anti-gun laws & dumping their health care system.
    You can thank the colonial Gov of Penn for enlightening the limey royals to the fact that if they were to dis-arm the “DAMN REBELS” that controlling them would be much easier.


  • Tinkertweater

    To all,
    This will make you “sit up”, in a cold sweat, realizing this is exactly what our Obama/Liberal/Socialist leaders are trying to do to our freedoms and our beloved country.

    I sincerely ask that you read every word and then realize what the consequences can be.

    You’re sound asleep when you hear

    a thump outside your bedroom door.

    Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear,

    you hear muffled whispers.

    At least two people have broken into your

    house and are moving your way.

    With your heart pumping, you reach down

    beside your bed and pick up your shotgun.

    You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch

    toward the door and open it.

    In the darkness, you make out two shadows.

    One holds something that looks like a crowbar.

    When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike,

    you raise the shotgun and fire.

    The blast knocks both thugs to the floor.

    One writhes and screams while the second

    man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.

    As you pick up the telephone to call police,

    you know you’re in trouble.

    In your country, most guns were outlawed years

    before, and the few that are privately owned

    are so stringently regulated as to make them useless.

    Yours was never registered.

    Police arrive and inform you

    that the second burglar has died.

    They arrest you for First Degree Murder

    and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.

    When you talk to your attorney, he tells

    you not to worry: authorities will probably

    plea the case down to manslaughter.

    “What kind of sentence will I get?” you ask.

    “Only ten to twelve years,”

    he replies, as if that’s nothing.

    “Behave yourself, and you’ll be out in seven.”

    The next day, the shooting is the lead

    story in the local newspaper.

    Somehow, you’re portrayed as an eccentric

    vigilante while the two men you shot

    are represented as choirboys.

    Their friends and relatives can’t find

    an unkind word to say about them.

    Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both “victims” have been arrested numerous times.

    But the next day’s headline says it all:

    “Lovable Rogue Son Didn’t Deserve to Die.”

    The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters.

    As the days wear on, the story takes wing.

    The national media picks it up,

    then the international media.

    The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.

    Your attorney says the thief is preparing

    to sue you, and he’ll probably win.

    The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you’ve been critical of local police for their lack

    of effort in apprehending the suspects.

    After the last break-in, you told your neighbor

    that you would be prepared next time.

    The District Attorney uses this to allege

    that you were lying in wait for the burglars.

    A few months later, you go to trial.

    The charges haven’t been reduced,

    as your lawyer had so confidently predicted.

    When you take the stand, your anger at

    the injustice of it all works against you.

    Prosecutors paint a picture of you

    as a mean, vengeful person.

    It doesn’t take long for the jury to convict

    you of all charges.

    The judge sentences you to life in prison.

    This case really happened.

    On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second.

    In April, 2000, he was convicted

    and is now serving a life term.

    How did it become a crime to defend one’s

    own life in the once great British Empire ?

    It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.

    This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns, but all firearms except shotguns.

    Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.

    Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw.

    When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.

    The British public, already desensitized by eighty years of “gun control,” demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

    Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland , Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.

    For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals. Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners. Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns. The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearms still owned by private citizens.

    During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism. Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun. Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.

    Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, “We cannot have people take the law into their own hands.”

    All of Martin’s neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.

    When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities.

    Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn’t were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn’t comply.

    Police later bragged that they’d taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.

    How did the authorities know who had handguns?

    The guns had been registered and licensed.

    Kind of like cars.. Sound familiar?



    “It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds..”
    –Samuel Adams

    If you think this is important,

    please forward to everyone you know.

    You need to wake up, because our new

    president intends to do this very same thing

    over here if he can get it done.

    And there are idiots in Congress,

    in the media, and on the street

    who will go right along with him,

    ignoring and changing the Constitution

    to suit their whims.

    Do you have a gun, and any thoughts on this?

    Who wouldn’t prefer to have a gun to use?

    Now compare this story to the 2 recent incidents that happened in Chicago.

    And w/that, I rest my case or need I say more?


    • Al Sieber

      Thanks T, now I’m really pissed at what’s happening here.

    • Ghostwriter III


      Your post has not gone unnoticed. Outstanding effort. Thank You.

      The Brits have had every opportunity to end the traditionally-accepted ‘Divine Right of Kings to Rule’ as American Patriots did through force of arms and brutal struggle in the American Revolutionary War for Independence.
      The consequences to the Brits of having refused to shake off their ingrained love and adoration for Aristocracy has now become woefully self-evident. The people have been reduced from the height of their status as Subjects of the Crown to that of mere serfs and peasants, and the once-Great Britain is now teetering on the brink of becoming a third-world nation.
      Unfortunately, such is also the case with the once-United States.
      The advantage Americans hold over other nations is that the principles, values, ideas and ideals embodied as that of a Constitutional Republic are still very much alive within the individual constitutions of the vast majority of Americans.
      We still know what’s right and wrong.
      Americans recognize the Republic to be in jeopardy, know that the governmental system has been corrupted and know that nowhere within the so-called ‘progressive’ movement is any idea which hasn’t already been implemented in Communist/Marxist/Socialist doctrines with disastrous consequences.
      The Tony Martin saga is heart wrenching. In my opinion, those so vacant as to so erroneously think justice was served by his incarceration, stand as stark testimony of the result of people so long accustomed to dependency on government and the attendant delusion of safety and security that they’ve lost their Moral compass. This may explain in part, their absence of conscience and skewed vacancy of reason by which they view the acts of criminals as exertion of a type of independence they no longer have themselves and transpose their self-loathing onto a person like Tony Martin.


  • Palin12

    This just in. Sharron Angle has won the Senate GOP race in Nevada to challenge Hairy Reid in the fall. I’m sure at this very moment, a whole slew of democratic operatives are looking to dig up dirt, just as they did with Sarah Palin. Watch and see!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Go Sharron, Take out Firty harry!!!!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        OOPS! make that DIRTY harry!! I gotta start proof reading! Sorry, I’ve been up since 6:00 AM EST and its 12:35 AM now! Been on the go all day!!

  • independant thinker

    Angel……………I said nothing about controlling you or anyone else except felons breaking the laws stating they cannot handel a firearm in any fashion. I also did not say the enforcement of those laws would stop criminals from getting firearms I said the enforcement of the automatic 5 year sentence would help.

    • rwnut

      independant thinker….That’s what I heard.

  • http://gmail i41

    Go back to the western justice, if you get caught stealing, raping or killing, you either got shot dead or your neck stretched. No repeat offenders,no court costs and a lot more civility. If your alligator mouth over loaded, your canary brain, you had better shut and sit down, and stay down when told. What do you think the most shortage of workers in the USA is, mechanics, machinists and “blue” collar skills. Why, if you know how to assemble and make something, besides theories, it scares socialists and liberals, you might be able to make a smoke stick, the government might not know about it. Since 1980 “security” wonks have been working to require back groung checks and want anyone that has ever been a machinist to be on a registred and kept track of. When in Denver in ’97 I thought I’d do some more machinist work, like I had done in my early 20s. But on the job format forms I had to list who and where I had learned my skills, when I asked what the heck that was for,I was told there was a gun smithing school close by and ATF and the machinist union were keeping track of mechanical skilled people, because they might make gun parts. Still think purple lips and his socialist democrats have, the USA’s best interest in mind. It will take you a while but Uncle SAm is way up on your life and you should check your file . I had to use the freedom of info act to get my file. It started in the 60′s, because my Dad had a high clearance rating on missle tecknology and the silos. In my case I never have figured out who they talked to or how it was put together. So hope and change is only no hope and a short change.

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    We may not like Archie Bunker’s rude manners or bigotry, but we can agree with him on the 2nd Amendment, can’t we?? I.e., Gloria and the Meathead balked about the fact that 50% of all murders were committed with guns. Archie just asked her if she’d feel better if they were instead pushed out of windows. GOOD POINT!! Likewise, people thought it was a joke when Archie suggested that all airline passengers should carry a gun during their flight. Of course, if the ‘Archie Bunker Rule’ had been in effect on 9/11/01, maybe the WTC towers would be standing today, and thousands of lives would’ve been saved!!…..Speaking of airlines, why would the anti-gun nuts oppose letting pilots carry guns on the job?? Pilots handle aircraft capable of more destruction than 2 or 3 nutcases with guns. So wouldn’t it be right to allow pilots to have guns during flights?? Again, perhaps that would’ve prevented the 9/11/01 tragedy!!!!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      suggest you check out what happens to an airliner when you put a pencil sized hole in its skin at oh, say 20,000 ft!!! Depressurization of a cabin is not a pretty sight!!!

      • independant thinker

        Proven wrong on Myth Busters.

  • Anthony

    First – you take away their Health Care
    Next – You take away their right to bear arms

    Then – you starve them into non-existence…

    What do the Georgia Stones say ?

  • http://zohofuns/free-offer Free Offer

    Normally I don’t learn post on blogs, but I would like to say that this write-up very compelled me to take a look at and do it! Your writing taste has been surprised me. Thanks, quite nice post.


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