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Secede, Or Don’t: The Beginning Of The End Of The Federal Monopoly On Power

November 13, 2012 by  

Secede, Or Don’t: The Beginning Of The End Of The Federal Monopoly On Power
PHOTOS.COM

When the White House implemented its “We the People” page on its website to give Americans an easier way to engage the Federal government with grievances and complaints, officials likely didn’t expect the type or the volume of petitions that have been logged in the wake of the re-election of President Barack Obama. Now, tens of thousands of Americans in at least 20 States are petitioning for the right of peaceable secession from the United States.

While the petitioners have been called everything from “a handful of rabble-rousers” to “idealistic dreamers,” many of the petitions state the portion of the Declaration of Independence that lends credence to the idea (Civil War notwithstanding) of peaceable State secession being an option:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

As of the writing of this article, a petition asking the Federal government to “Peacefully grant the State of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government” has the most virtual signatures at nearly 21,500. The “We the People” page promises that the appropriate individuals will review and possibly respond to petitions that reach 25,000 signatures within 30 days of the petition’s creation.

The Texas petition laments:

The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the federal government’s neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending. The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it’s (sic) citizens’ standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in accordance with the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer being reflected by the federal government.

States where a citizen had petitioned on the website at the time of this writing include: Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, North Dakota, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas.

Within the bodies of the various petitions, the petitioners cite a number of reasons for wanting to leave the Union. The most popular include domestic spying, the National Defense Authorization Act, Federal fiscal ineptitude, the Affordable Care and Patient Protection Act, illegal and ongoing unwinnable wars, the Federal militarization of State and local law enforcement,  and a general sense of liberty lost at behest of Federal meddling.

While it is uncertain, it remains highly unlikely that any of the aforementioned petitions or those filed on behalf of other States will lead to a Federal willingness to cede power to States. But there are battles on the horizon resulting from last week’s election that will further irritate Federal/State relationships in coming months, when vast swaths of the populace are already clearly tired of Federal meddling in State matters.

The coming implementation of Obamacare, with which many States voted last week not to cooperate, is going to create friction between the already shaky relationship between Federal and State government. And voters in Colorado and Washington who voted to legalize recreational marijuana use are in the Federal government’s sights, as the Department of Justice prepares to use its Federal might to sue the States into complying with Federal prohibition of the drug, regardless of State wishes.

As Americans on both sides of the issues continue to feel more and more that the Federal government does not represent them, the political battle may change from conservatives versus liberals to the citizens of the Nation versus the elitists and corporate special interests in Washington, D.C. This could be a moment in history quite indicative of the beginning of the end for strong American central government.

 

Update

Petitions for secession now exist in at least 47 States and have as many as 375,000 signatures, according to reports.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    SINCE TENNESSEE IS HEADQUARTERS OF, Ku Klux Klan, IT IS INTERESTING TENNESSEE IS NOT LISTED AS A STATE INTERESTED IN SECESSION. IF TENNESSEE HAD A PETITION, I WOULD SIGN IT.

    • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

      CORRECTION – Personal Liberty HAS ANOTHER ARTICLE WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE TENNESSEE IN THE SECESSION FIGHT. THIS ARTICLE DOES – HMN … I WONDER WHICH ONE IS CORRECT.

      • czman75

        Good question…the petition for Tenn. (follow the link) in this article says I already signed it and this is the first time I have even seen it…

      • WILDFIRE

        To answer your question, As to when the other article was written a petition was probably not created at that time. These petitions are being created now on a daily basis. A few days ago their was 17 States, yesterday morning, 19 States, Now there is 20 States petitioning. Sometimes it actually helps to do your research before commenting. Go to the website and research and watch the pattern as it grows, then maybe, just maybe it will sink in that this is a growing movement across the nation and more and more States will create petitions.

        https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

      • Flashy

        Wildfire…please be more accurate. there are wack jobs in 20 states petitioning. 99% of the population are going “what a bunch of nutcases”

      • Vigilant

        Here are the recent updates from http://www.policymic.com/articles/18946/obama-secession-citizens-from-18-states-ask-president-to-secede-from-the-union

        “UPDATE: Since I wrote this article last night the total number of states with viewable petitions has increased to 20. The site requires 150 signatures to be publicly viewable. In all the number of signatures has gone from 42150 total to 96656 (129%) in about 12 hours over night. Most of that gain has come in the past few hours however. Currently, the petitions are seeing a cumulative growth of approximately 7% per hour. The biggest moves by percentage increase are in Georgia and South Carolina with some 3000% increase overnight. The largest numerical increase belongs to Texas with an 8918 signature jump.

        UPDATE II: In less than 24 hours, total signature count has increased to 131,446 (212%) and Oklahoma and Arizona are now in the ring. Maryland and Illinois still do not have enough signatures to show up. Overall signature counts have increased 36% in the pas 4 hours. Texas, to no one’s surprise, has now surpassed the required 25,000 signatures with 25,239.”

        This thing appears to have taken on a life of its own.

      • Sirian

        Vigilant,
        Someone else may have already posted this one but as of 4:06 AM, there have now been 47 states that have petitions running. If this isn’t an indicator as to the general sentiment of Obummer and his thugs, what is?? BTW, Oklahoma is included, just saying. . .
        http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/13/petitions-seeking-white-house-approval-to-secede-now-come-from-47-states/

      • Flashy

        I dunno Sirian. A good indicator may be the mandate given the President in the elections ?Ya think ?

      • Mikey

        Yes Flashy, you “Dunno”.

      • MsAbby

        Flashy – the “mandate” given to Obama was from the 47% who take and don’t contribute. the Unions who take and put themselves before the people they represent, and the minorities that are too uneducated to believe they are getting screwed. I have a Masters in Economics and we are headed for inflation, high interest rates and a massive loss of jobs in this country. We have a total service industry economy and that cannot last long. So people like you just keep believing with all your hearts but I am not counting on believing, I’m counting facts and facts tell me it’s time to wind down my business and quite working for others that don’t deserve my efforts.

      • Dennis48e

        “A good indicator may be the mandate given the President in the elections ?Ya think ?”

        No I don’t think and it’s obvious you cannot not think. obama was given no mandate. The popular vote was very close. The Republicans still control the house. If there had been a mandate given to obama the democrats would have control of the house and a filibuster proof senate.

      • eddie47d

        Sirian there are literally thousands of petitions on the web demanding one thing or another. The one against George Zimmerman has 2,500,000 signers. Does that make him guilty and should be hung without trial. There are several against Wells Fargo Bank demanding action on foreclosed home with thousands of signatures. Should action be taken against that bank by the Feds because they screwed so many people? Maybe yes and maybe no for everyone has a grievance and want things their way or the highway. No wonder we have so many lawyers in this country trying to figure out all these squabbles. Gotta love our Democratic Republic.

      • Flashy

        “I have a Masters in Economics and we are headed for inflation, high interest rates and a massive loss of jobs in this country. We have a total service industry economy and that cannot last long.” <— Ms Abbey

        Ms. in part, i'll agree with you. We will have inflation. i think it will be in the 5-6% range once we solidly enter the second half of the recovery from the Bush Debacle. I don't see hyper inflation being much of a concern IF the fed is cautious, rapidly responding, and the production efficiency gained from the manufacturing base retooling into robotics continues. I'm watching the housing recovery as a major indicator. If it booms…i see the fed tamping down sooner than if it smoothly increases at a steady rate.

        Jobs? I absolutely disagree. I see the first half of the recovery being that of manufacturing recovery. Credit lines being shut off are slowly being turned back on. Inefficiencies have been reduced and..if you examine closely the manufacturing production by sector, it will indicate much of the business and manufacturing recovery is being done via retooling and robotics. thus, the factory can make 100 widgets with fewer man hours, and while production is up…less labor is required. If the Obama tax plan takes effect…i.e. Middle Class income earners having the lower tax rates…we should see increased consumer spending, and thus increases in the jobs. that and the new industries coming out and expanding as R&D is well under way and the new products in energy efficiency and infrastructure begin mass production.

        Your concerns about a total service economy I share. Good thing President Obama saved the auto industry and boosted the heavy manufacturers such as caterpillar etc.

        My major concern? China. They're starting the slide into tanking as the system they've built is unstable and woefully inefficient. If China suddenly tanks… it could be a rough ride…but without inflation concerns …

      • Flashy

        ““A good indicator may be the mandate given the President in the elections ?Ya think ?”

        No I don’t think and it’s obvious you cannot not think. obama was given no mandate. The popular vote was very close. The Republicans still control the house. If there had been a mandate given to obama the democrats would have control of the house and a filibuster proof senate.” <– Dennis

        Dennis. you should do some research. Obama garnered over 50% of the popular vote in both of two elections. FDR was the only other Democratic President to attain that. Obama won 332 electoral votes and with that margin ranks 26th in all time electoral margin (his first, 365 electoral votes places him 21st then). Numbers are adjusted according to era. the popular vote is always close when dealing with millions…not to minimize it, but it was by anyones account a spanking.

        As to the House..with gerrymandering in place with the GOP state run legislatures after the census, only in the GOP primaries could there be any contested House seats. Fact is…since the GOP took control in the '00 census year, there has been less turnover of GOP Congresspeople than the USSR Congresses. yes…true. THAT is a telling statistic isn't it? Gerrymandering made many previously contestable districts "safe" (Texas is a prime example). However, in the gerrymandering proof Senate elections, the Dems took 25 of the 33 with one yet to be decided.

        The GOP was soundly slapped down. you can tell that from the scurrying into "evolved' new positions in immigration, the sequester, income taxes and revenue increases etc.

        I'd say president Obama has about through March- June before the GOP figures out how to recover from this defeat.

        it is a mandate. By almost every measure.

      • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

        Some of those petitions are duplicates… more than one for a state…

        Also, interestingly, there are a couple/few counter-petitions, asking for people who signed the secession petitions, to have their citizenship revoked, and to be deported… apparently buy people who don’t know what deportation means…

        The way those counter-petitions are worded, is an embarassment.

        – Smoov

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “WILDFIRE,”

        I HAD A TECHNICAL PROBLEM WITH THE LINK YOU PROVIDED AFTER I FIRST SAW THIS ARTICLE EARLIER THIS MORNING. PROSPECTIVE SIGNERS ARE SUPPOSED TO “CUT-AND-PASTE” A CONFIRMATION LINK SENT IN AN E-MAIL. I COULD NOT GET MY ACCOUNT ACTIVATION – REQUIRED FOR PETITION-SIGNING – CONFIRMED.

      • Jan

        It keeps changing. Last night it was 22 states. Earlier today it was 27. Now it looks like 47 of the 50. WOW

        • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

          > It keeps changing. Last night it was 22 states.
          > Earlier today it was 27. Now it looks like 47 of the 50. WOW

          At this rate, the only ones that would be left in the US, would be the District of Columbia, and the State of Puerto Rico.

          – Smoov

      • Nobody’s Fool

        Flashy, we’ll be glad to leave you to the vultures in Washington, District of Criminals. You’ll be surrounded by your fellow communists there.

      • http://naver samurai

        Ah yes! Actually the real nut cases on this site are Flushy, Smelly, and their ilk. They proclaim what they say are facts and truths, but yet they never post any sources to back up what they say. So they expect us to believe them? Ha, ha, ha, ha! Our dog fluffy knows the truth more than these 5th columners. As I read in a very old book one time, “They shall seek after the truth and claim to know the truth, but the truth is far from them.” IOW, you all should remember, “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.” Stop with the lies, innuendo, rhetoric, and kool aid drinking.

        http://www.westernjournalism.com/is-the-usa-breaking-up/

        Everything stated in this video are facts and cannot be disproved. I dare any 5th columner to try. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.”

        Thomas Jefferson

        • http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Day-Gettysburg-Lisa-Phillips/dp/1432710281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352934187&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+day+gettysburg Lisa C. Phillips

          Here is the official whitehouse.gov website where the petitions are found, including the one for the great State of Tennessee: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-tennessee-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/7xsNwkJ8

          • http://naver samurai

            Thank you fellow patriot. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

            You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

          • http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Day-Gettysburg-Lisa-Phillips/dp/1432710281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352934187&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+day+gettysburg Lisa C. Phillips

            My pleasure, samuria ! #R3volUTIONRising !

    • http://www.thefreedomtrainusa.com Freedom
      • walter agard

        What i see is you read and hear about things and put it into your meaning.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        The elections were stolen and I’m all for leaving the U.S. lying and cheating government all together, start a new nation one which respects and worships God and has moral leadership, if not? It’s time to go and start a new and moral government.

    • Rickey brown

      It is listed

    • AmericansRon2U

      TN DOES have a petition. Just do a search for states petitioning for secession and you’ll find it.

      • http://naver samurai

        Indian does too and I’ve already signed it. We’re keeping our weapons within arm’s reach and keeping some powder dry. I dare Obama bin Laden to send his Stormtroopers after us. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “Here is my creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable service we render to Him is in doing good to His other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them. As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see.”

        Benjamin Franklin

        • Smilee

          Sammy, your little peashooter against the US Military is a joke, I do believe you are suicidal

      • sam1966

        Wrong, wrong, wrong Smilee. I won’t be alone, as there are voices crying out across this nation for the country to get back to the ways our Christian founding fathers, Chrisitan principles, the Constitution, God, and what we were set up to be. You and yours are nothing more than traitors that seek the destruction of this country by turning it into something it was not meant to be. Here is something that you should think about:

        http://www.imaginativeconservative.org/2012/10/faith-and-freedom-why-liberty-requires.html

        This leaves you and your ilk out of the picture. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!
        하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”

        Thomas Jefferson

    • 45caliber

      Christopher:

      Yesterday there was 20 states petitioning; this morning there is 40! I suspect you can find that TN is one of them. What I thought was funny was that at least half of them are BLUE states! New York was one of the first! So I’m certain TN is one of them.

    • Patriot Diva

      The reason people want to secede is not because of race, but because of tyranny.

      • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

        > The reason people want to secede is not because of race, but because of tyranny.

        +1

        • Smilee

          There is no tyranny so it has to be race, the tyranny statement is meant to cover up your racism but your not fooling anyone

          • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

            > There is no tyranny so it has to be race, the tyranny statement
            > is meant to cover up your racism but your not fooling anyone

            Only racists see racism everywhere…

            We see tyranny… a large number of immigrants see the US becoming the very thing they left their countries over, and a growing number of us who lived all our lives here, are starting to see it too.

            If you believe there is no tyranny, you are either one of the tyrants who are helping to bring it forth, or you’re simply not paying attention.

            Or perhaps, since you see racism first, you can’t be bothered to look further?

            – Smoov

          • Smilee

            If you wish to see real tyranny go to N Korea, Syria and countries like that. Tyranny in the US is nothing more than a figment of your imagination and your in denial of your own racism, that is real. Obama won by over 50% in both elections and you racists are livid in your hate of him because of it and the only legit reason for it is racism and you express it despite your denial it is racism. F Roosevelt, Eisenhower and Reagan are the only two term presidents in the last century to get over 50% the vote in two elections besides Obama, they were popular and so is Obama as he is now in their league. Get over it loser.

          • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

            Like I said… only racists see everything in terms of racism…

            So what if the President is mixed-race? The policies that keep getting enacted, have been happening long before he entered office.

            But no… since he’s mixed-race, we couldn’t possibly actually have issues with his policies, and those if his fellow Democrats, and a significant number of Republicans… not in your eyes…

            Why? Because he’s “black”… that’s why… and that’s all you see…

            …and that’s racism…

            – Smoov

          • Smilee

            SPIN SPIN SPIN Your interpretation of what I said is 100% incorrect, your putting words in my mouth., The type of spin you would expect from a racist as you again prove that is what you are. Admit it you have a deep seated hate for this man, your statements make that very clear.

          • Frank Kahn

            OKAY THE GLOVES COME OFF,

            SO YOU (WILLFULLY IGNORANT PERSON) FEEL THAT EVERYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH THE INEFFECTUAL, INCOMPETENT, LYING MISCREANT THAT IS PRETENDING TO BE PRESIDENT IS A RACIST?

            WHAT COLOR ARE YOU, PURPLE, ORANGE, GREEN, WHAT RELIGION ARE YOU, CHRISTIAN, JEW, MUSLIM, WHAT ETHNIC BACKGROUND DO YOU HAVE? I DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAY, NOW I WANT TO KNOW WHAT CLASSIFICATION WE CAN USE TO SAY I AM A RACIST FOR DISAGREEING WITH YOU.

            YOU LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING, YOU CALL EVERYONE NAMES. YOU PRETEND WE SPIN WHAT YOU SAY WHEN WE USE YOUR EXACT WORDS.

            IF YOU PERSIST I WILL USE NAMES ON YOU AS WELL, BUT MY WORDS WILL BE BACKED BY FACTS AND YOU WONT LIKE TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH AND ACCURACY OF THEM EITHER.

          • Smilee

            Frankie

            SPIN PIN SPIN Your interpretation of what I said is 100% incorrect, your putting words in my mouth., The type of spin you would expect from a racist as you again prove that is what you are. Admit it you have a deep seated hate for this man, your statements make that very clear.

            OKAY THE GLOVES COME OFF,

            Oh, I’m shaking, also laughing at you childish tactics

            SO YOU (WILLFULLY IGNORANT PERSON) FEEL THAT EVERYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH THE INEFFECTUAL, INCOMPETENT, LYING MISCREANT THAT IS PRETENDING TO BE PRESIDENT IS A RACIST?

            The American people do not agree with you they reelected him, your entitled to your option but you are wrong as usual..

            WHAT COLOR ARE YOU, PURPLE, ORANGE, GREEN, WHAT RELIGION ARE YOU, CHRISTIAN, JEW, MUSLIM, WHAT ETHNIC BACKGROUND DO YOU HAVE? I DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAY, NOW I WANT TO KNOW WHAT CLASSIFICATION WE CAN USE TO SAY I AM A RACIST FOR DISAGREEING WITH YOU.

            If it looks like duck, waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck the it is a duck, you definitely come off looking and sounding like a racist and I think you are

            YOU LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING, YOU CALL EVERYONE NAMES. YOU PRETEND WE SPIN WHAT YOU SAY WHEN WE USE YOUR EXACT WORDS.

            This is how you come across, there is no pretend as you are in denial ans have no idea what is true or you would know I am the truth teller here and you the liar

            IF YOU PERSIST I WILL USE NAMES ON YOU AS WELL, BUT MY WORDS WILL BE BACKED BY FACTS AND YOU WONT LIKE TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH AND ACCURACY OF THEM EITHER.

            You would not recognize a fact if it bit you in the a$$ and you are already guilty of name calling so that would be nothing new. I do not like anything about you, I think you are a man filled with hate and anger and incapable of reasonable thought or reasoning because of it.

          • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

            @Frank, re:Smilee

            Trollers gonna troll… >shrugs<

            – Smoov

      • sam1966

        I agree with you Patriot Diva, fellow patriot. The states in question are not seceding because of race, but due to the government being too big, out of control debt and spending, and the incompetancy of Obama bin Laden. They also feel that their rights as people and states are being taken from them little by little, thus causing further polarization of this great country. We need to get back to our Christian founding and go strictly by the Bible and the Constitution. Not the ways of liberalism, secularism, and progressivism that lead to death and destruction of nations and its citizens. Here is a sign of tyranny, when babies inside their mother’s womb are considered garbage and not citizens protected under the 14th Amendment. Since when did the lib/prog/secularists decide that a life does not matter?

        http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/planned-parenthood-obama-victory-ensures-more-dead-babies-3/

        Take heed, the patriots will not stop fighting till every last 5th columner is destroyed (legally). FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins.”

        Benjamin Franklin

        Boy do the 5th columners and Obama bin Laden possess a lot of ignorance.

        • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

          Ugh…

          ok, now see, this is why the Republicans keep finding it so hard to keep it together…

          Ya start off talking about returning to adherence of the Constitution, and the rest of us are on the same page… and then you just gotta keep dragging in church business into it and lumping it all together as if it is the same thing, and you keep alienating the rest of us with your bible-thumping.

          That’s why we Libertarians keep growing in number. We DON’T want to use government to tell people how they can live their lives. It isn’t the government’s business.

          This is the reason why Romney lost this year more than anything else. Had he just stuck to fiscal conservativism, he would have had a much better chance, but when you drag in social evangelicalism, you alienate a lot of conservatives.

          We’re constantly stuck with choosing between the Republicans, who claim fiscal conservatism (and end up abandoning it, which is a different issue), who we can get behind, but in order to do that, we would have to accept the evangelical wing trying to legislate morality, which we can’t tolerate.

          Then, we could choose to side with the Democrats, who claim social liberalism (which they don’t have a good track record on too), who we can also get behind, when it comes to leaving people alone to choose for themselves, but in order to do that, we would have to accept big, crushing, government, sticking their hands into absolutely everything, and also telling us how to live our lives, but in a different way, which we also can’t tolerate.

          The ONLY thing we should be doing is shrinking the government, and leaving the morality business to the churches where it belongs. Adults, in a free society, make their own choices for themselves. Not some evangelical with political power.

          DON’T WANT.

          – Smoov

      • http://naver samurai

        Wrong, wrong, wrong Smooth. Now it is true that we do need to shrink the size of government, but what principles are we to use to do this? We can use the Constitution, but we also need to use the Christian founding of this great country to do this. Both Christians and non-Christians throughout the ages realize that the Christian faith provides the only foundation needed for nations to be free, and to retain our God given liberty. Christians have been given a commission, to make and keep America a Christian nation. Jesus said,

        “All authority has been give to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of time.”

        Matthew 28: 18 – 20

        What does this tell you, hmmm? These things are not to just be in church, but to be everywhere, government, military, and in the public. You cannot have a free country without Christianity, God, Jesus, and the Bible. It is a virtual impossibility.

        “Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion (Christianity). Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious (Christianity) principle.”

        George Washington

        “When the righteous rule, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan.”

        Proverbs 29:2

        Aren’t the people groaning loudly now? Some are even pushing to secede from the Union, but you don’t hear them groaning? Know God and Jesus, know peace. No God and Jesus, no peace. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

          Not only rediculous, but 100% false on top of it.

          and this, “Both Christians and non-Christians throughout the ages realize that the Christian faith provides the only foundation needed for nations to be free, and to retain our God given liberty.”, is just asinine.

          – Smoov

      • http://naver samurai

        Actually what I’ve posted smoov is the truth and cannot be denied. Ah yes, I see that you leveled a personal attack on me, though I never did that to you, but now we all know your true colors. Now don’t we? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. No others can fit the bill.

        “Religion is of general and public concern and on its proper support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people. By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations od Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty.”

        Samueal Chase
        SCOTUS Cheif Justice

    • http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Day-Gettysburg-Lisa-Phillips/dp/1432710281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352934187&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+day+gettysburg Lisa C. Phillips

      TN has a petition to secede on the whitehouse.gov site along with all the other states. We don’t have to ask a dictator permission to secede, though. See Lew Rockwell’s site, the article by Ron Holland.

    • ibcamn

      in wisconsin the KKK is present (largly in the north)and it is not on that list either!!

  • GALT

    Sam, you are just too funny…………

    http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/freeman/freeman4.htm

    a really good mushroom feeder would have wrote

    White House uses new web site to track potential FEMA camp residents for
    President’s third term.

    • Michael J.

      No, but since the country is sensing the feeling of having been raped, an early second term abortion would garner wide based support amongst those that would otherwise oppose.

      • Jimmy the Greek

        I can go for that !

    • Curtislow

      If the white House Intends to use Our Email Addresses to track US.?
      And I suspect they will!
      In the Spirit of John Hancock. I Sign in LARGE PRINT SO THE “O” KING MAKES NO MISTAKE WHICH SIDE I AM ON.
      Which is the reason I signed everyone of the Peaceful Petitions.
      Also; I would rather Die imprisoned in a fema camp as a Free man, than Live one day like those Liberal Cowards.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        I HEAR YA, “Curtislow!” I WANT THE KENYAN TO SEE MY NAME AND E-MAIL ADDRESS IN H-U-G-E CAPITAL LETTERS.

      • Jimmy the Greek

        Me to ! They already have a file on me and we even had a face to face and they can still kiss my donkey !

      • sam1966

        HHHHHooooorrrrraaaaahhhhh! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        http://www.freedomoutpost.com/2012/11/texas-secession-petition-tops-goal-requires-review-by-white-house/

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “The patriot who feels himself in the service of God, who acknowledges Him in all his ways, has the promise of Almighty direction, and will find His Word in his greatest darkness, a lantern unto his feet and a lamp unto his paths.”

        Francis Scott Key
        February 22, 1812

    • eddie47d

      The anti-Obama fanatics are bigger sore losers than I thought. You don’t get your way on everything and you want to set up your own little fiefdoms where you can all drink the kool aid together. Hope you enjoy your Balkanized hideaways! Colorado may be on the list but they aren’t going anywhere or divorcing the USA.

      • Flashy

        Eddie…I laughed seeing Oregon and Washington on the list. Like i said…a lunatic fringe which cannot stand the thought the vast majority see them as lunatics and people who absolutely never should be allowed to own a weapon (including sharp utensils)

      • http://www.thefreedomtrainusa.com Freedom

        Eddie and Flashy……I would not laugh to hard…….EVERY EXPERIMENT IN HISTORY THAT WITH MARXISM AND SOCIALISM HAS FAILED……..

      • eddie47d

        Yes Flashy there are right wing militias and extremists groups within every states. It will be interesting which ones are behind these petitions. All it takes is one person to start one so could it be the Sovereign Nation,Minutemen Defense,Alabama Constitutional Militia,the GOA,Imperial Knights or some disgruntled Tea Party person.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “eddie47d,”

        SIR, COLORADO DOES NOT HAVE TO DIVORCE USA – Y’ALL ARE ALREADY “HIGH” ON THAT LEGALIZED DOPE. THE KENYAN LOOKS PRETTY GOOD WHEN YOU ARE “STONED.”

      • Kate8

        eddie – If this had been a fair and honest election, we’d accept the results.

        The thing is, the fraud is completely in our faces. The numbers don’t add up. We have a system where the controllers and the media are so arrogant that they think they can tell us whatever they want and we’ll all accept it as true, even when it’s so blatantly obvious. (Well, to those of us who are perceptive at all.)

        This is a slap in the fact to the American people. No matter what they think, most of us are not that stupid. What they are telling us is that we will take what they shove on us, no matter if NO ONE wants it.

        Even with all of the voter fraud going on, only 30% of registered voters voted for Obama. So the actual number is way less. For you jokers to say that most of the country wants Obama is, not only an outrage and a lie, but it is a spit in the eye of your fellow Americans.

        Sadly, people are becoming tired, worn out from fighting the looming, unrelenting monster of tyranny. So we may just all go home and not fight anymore. Why should we. The courts, our “representatives”, have proved to us that we no longer matter, and that they will continue to rule against us, no matter how just our cause.

        Shame. Shame on you. Shame on us.

        Of course, you people have demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no shame.

      • sam1966

        And this coming from someone with no credibility on the board? Remember ed-duh, Colorado is on that list too. I was a red state during the election, right? How does it feel to believe different than the majority of voters in your state? Must feel pretty lonesome, doesn’t it? Let’s see if you are patriotic enough to sign the peaceful petition. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual…Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of you dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which Heaven gave and no man ought to take from us.”

        John Hancock
        History of the United States of America
        Vol. II, page 229.

    • Rickey brown

      It is listed Why would anyone even care who won. It’s rigged to vote was a farce so for the first time ever in my life I didn’t even bother. If I had voted for one evil man or the other I would’ve been voting for the lessor of two evils maybe. I don’t vote for evil now we look forward to our last president of the united states the black voted for him because he’s black. Question is what do they do with the white half? He is half white also although he plays on the black side because he believes it gets him votes. Lol the only really black thing about him is his soul. He will never be followed he will probably be the last president of these united states of America. I guess they will look at the signitures and audit and may e deport or arrest those people as traders and terrorists. I do know after all they can hold them without trial or charges now after the bills they passed as law that are unconstitutional big surprise. I would love to see Texas back away from it him and go out on their own but without the fight that wont happen. They can’t let the only state with that could probably survive on their own leave we support half the dead beat states in the nation. I know of we left all you bleeding heart liberals wouldn’t have free cellphones or food cards anymore. We all work here very hard for our money not like Yankee scum. Thinking Chicago and new York maybe could support the rest of the free loading people meskuns and blacks etc. I’m not racist don’t care what color anyone is but think the whole of the nation has no brains if he really won. I don’t think he really won at all soros voting machines probably don’t even know who won. I think it was one for me one for u three for me none for you after it’s only a program. Wouldn’t take much to change the vote to how someone wants it let me program those machines next time I can guarantee a win for my candidate. Succession indeed lol would be nice but will never happen after all when they nuke USA they want all the resources oil gas gold silver whatever they can get cars etc. Why would they let part of the states off the hook. China wants cars for all their people for the money the government owes them the people has nothing to do with that debt I borrowed nothing from them. The government on the other hand borrowed then lost the money somewhere to some fat contract with their friends companies or golfing buddy’s or somebody that will fly away whenthe warheads start falling that’s a day that’s very close to spread and take the wealth of the individuals away and leave them without even the lives they have now. Very soon all these stupid people will see something else rather than the pimp daddy they love as we all know whenthe money ain’t coming the pimp bitch slaps his bitches and they are definatley his bitched

      • Jimmy the Greek

        Rickey i live in Texas and look forward to a fight for freedom from washington , even to die for it as long as in dieing i take them with me ! every day i pass the old woman’s house that lives down the road from me i see the blue flag with the single star , I makes me think i well be worth it for my grandchildren .

    • Robert

      I wish California would secede from Union, but California is too liberal, now Democrat is supermajority.

      • Jimmy the Greek

        Me to after it fills with more mexicans then drops into the water.

    • Laura

      That is hilarious!

  • Michael J.

    “That One” is the ghost in the machine… voting machine, that is.
    If you believe broadcast election results are an accurate representation of the peoples wishes, I have some cool property right inside the gates of Hell to Sell… TO YOU!

    • http://www.thefreedomtrainusa.com Freedom

      Michael…..GOOD ONE!!!!!

    • Flashy

      I agree Michael. As even Paul Weyrich has said…the more people that vote, the less the odds a modern conservative will win. As you stated, had all the electorate voted..had we 100% voting…there would be no ‘modern conservative’ movement except for a handful of Congress…

      • Nobama

        You are very ignorant i f u think u know the mind of every person in the U.S. Romney lost because the true conservatives did not trust him, he was tooo moderate. Now the liberals may be in the majority, but it doesn’t mean that a very large amount of people agree with u. Our country is definitely changing for the worse. Our morals are in the toilet and the country is headed for even more destruction because of the liberal mindset. I am a very sane patriotic American, and don’t agree with u. Your time on top will be short lived. Americans have to learn the hard way, and they will because turning us into a socialist country will not work. And people like u will be ruined financially just like the rest of the geniuses who re-elected the fake President of the United States.

      • sam1966

        Sorry Nobama, but Obama bin Laden is not worthy enough to be called the POTUS, for he has only earned the title of COOTUS (Community Organizer of the United States). He is a curse that has been brought upon this nation by Almighty God for our many sins as a nation. I guess God feels that we haven’t been punished enough. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”

        John Jay
        October 12, 1816

  • Tom Cook

    Yeah, that is a great pipe dream. I believe it more likely that we will have to fill the soil and feed the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants, greedy lazy minorities, and liberals.

    • mark

      Once again as in every single daily edition, the racism of this site’s posters comes shining through. Instead of Personal Liberty Digest perhaps the title of this site should be changed Klan Liberty Digest or Aryan Liberty Digest?

      • Smilee

        The KKK was almost extinct in 2009 (less than 300) now they have over 6000 members and their racism has again come out in the open. There are a lot of closet racists on this site too and I believe it is what is driving this effort. It will never succeed as Obama was the fourth president in the last century to win two terms with over 50% of the vote in both elections. The other three where Roosevelt, Eisenhower and Reagan and he enjoys that type of popularity overall a very exclusive club. His popularity drives a;ll the radicals on here crazy. They are the problem in this country today certainly not a part of the solution. Like a child who storms home with his marbles when he loses. It is sad this post was even posted, it serves no good purpose.

      • Mikey

        Fact: The KKK is the strong-arm branch of the southern Democrat party.
        Fact: Racism transcends political lines, racists exist in all parties (including reverse racism).
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1o0ooNn8Qc

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear mark,

        You write: ” Instead of Personal Liberty Digest perhaps the title of this site should be changed Klan Liberty Digest or Aryan Liberty Digest?” Your naming suggestions aren’t needed. Personal Liberty is the proper name. Perhaps you would be more at home at Totalitarian Digest as it’s obvious you don’t believe in freedom of speech or thought.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • eddie47d

        Sorry to burst your bubble Mikey but the Klan votes on the right and its been alot of years in the past where the Democrats have included them.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Why are you not on the Dems/Progs/Leftist sites crowing that your O won?
        You are more dangerous because you a fearful and cowardly little man and to detract from yourself you make up lies about the posters you hate.
        mark, you are free to leave anytime and make the O sites very happy that you agree with all their ideology.

      • Mikey

        Apology accepted Eddie.

        Now, some facts (which I also posted earlier further down on this page):

        http://www.black-and-right.com/the-democrat-race-lie/

        The author of this article happens to be African-American, and conservative.

        You are wrong. Period.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Smilee,”

        ONLY FORTY PERCENT OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS VOTED. THERE IS NO “NATIONAL LOVEFEST” FOR THE KENYAN.

        IF Hillary Rodham Clinton IS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE IN 2016, MAYBE, WE WILL LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS “CHANGING DEMOGRAPHY” COMMONLY DISCUSSED IN POST-ELECTION NEWS. IF SHE IS THE NOMINEE, THAT ELECTION WILL NOT BE ABOUT RACE – IT WILL BE ABOUT GENDER. THERE ARE ENOUGH MALES IN THIS NATION WHO ARE STILL ALIVE AND MATURE ENOUGH TO NOT BE GUIDED BY A WOMAN.

        • Smilee

          Those that did not vote do not count so you cannot assume there is no lovefest for the Hawaiian, it could very well be it is for all you know, never the less he got over fifty percent of a larger population than Roosevelt, Eisenhower and Reagan whom also went over 50% in two elections as Obama did,and no one else has in the last century, that puts him in the league with the big names so the odds are against your statement. This election was not about race for the vast majority only the racists were influenced by race and they are very much in the minority and that is why these succession efforts will fail just as the birthers and other haters in the population did and who really only make life miserable for themselves, hate always does that to people.

          • Frank Kahn

            OK, Smilee, you goofed again. First of all, everyone that is a citizen counts. Now, I dont feel like checking the actual total voter count from the election, but there was about 110 million voters, and last year the population of the US was almost 312 million. Since Romney caught hell for saying that 47% dont count, what do you get for saying 66% dont count?

            I am still trying to process those two numbers, assuming that every adult voted (which would never happen) that means that every family averages out to 3 people, 1 voting age and two children. If only half the voting age people voted then there is a family average of 2 adults and one child. The first breakdown is impossible because men cant have babies.

          • Smilee

            You could get dizzy with all that spin, we were talking about votes and votes not cast cannot be counted that is what does not count not those persons that did not cast votes as they do count for something but not for voting when they did not vote nor can you assume whom they might have voted for so no weight can be given those who did not vote GET IT DUMMMY!! . The 47% was those that did not pay taxes but filed so all were employed. Your a nut case

          • Frank Kahn

            Calling me names like dummy and nut case do nothing to bolster your assertion. Nor, do they decrease the validity of my statement.

            Your original post said “the people who did not vote dont count”. I have very good reading comprehension and my post addressed that exact statement. It is not my fault that you have poor linguistic skills and are unable to properly word your statements.

            If you are now contending that we can not establish the feelings of the 66% of people who did not vote, you are correct in that we dont have a public referendum on their views. This, however, cuts both ways, we dont know that they are against Obama, but we also dont know that they support him.

            If we assume (always a bad idea) that the actual voters are a perfect example of the division of feelings then we can assume that there are 3,120,000 more people that support him than oppose him. A rather insignificant number when viewed against the total population of 312 million.

            As to your complaint about having dizzy spells, I suggest you see a doctor for that condition. My posts have no spin within them, so you are either having a problem with your equilibrium or your reading comprehension.

          • Smilee

            You could get dizzy with all that spin, we were talking about votes and votes not cast cannot be counted that is what does not count not those persons that did not cast votes as they do count for something but not for voting when they did not vote nor can you assume whom they [...]
            Calling me names like dummy and nut case do nothing to bolster your assertion. Nor, do they decrease the validity of my statement.

            “Where in my post do you find the word dummy”

            Your original post said “the people who did not vote dont count”. I have very good reading comprehension and my post addressed that exact statement. It is not my fault that you have poor linguistic skills and are unable to properly word your statements.
            SPIN, SPIN AND SPIN, I DID NOT SAY WHAT YOU SAY I SAID, SO JUST MORE SPIN
            If you are now contending that we can not establish the feelings of the 66% of people who did not vote, you are correct in that we dont have a public referendum on their views. This, however, cuts both ways, we dont know that they are against Obama, but we also dont know that they support him.

            Right, That is WHAT I SAID SO WHATS YOUR REAL POINT?? WE DidHAVE A PUBLIC REFERENDUM, THE ELECTION, THE FACT THAT NOT EVERY ELIGIBLE PERSON DID’NT VOTE DOES NOT DISTRACT FROM THAT, Some people do not vote because they are oK with the status quo, so the odds (no proof of course) are that the majority of those not oting are ok WITH OBAMA other wise they would have voted.

            If we assume (always a bad idea) that the actual voters are a perfect example of the division of feelings then we can assume that there are 3,120,000 more people that support him than oppose him. A rather insignificant number when viewed against the total population of 312 million.

            All those under 18 are also included in the 312 million so your assumption is flawed, the majority that cared enough to vote, voted to elect him by over 3 million votes, pizzes you off doesn’t it

            As to your complaint about having dizzy spells, I suggest you see a doctor for that condition. My posts have no spin within them, so you are either having a problem with your equilibrium or your reading comprehension.

            I never said I had dizzy spells, again just more spin from you, what I said was all that spinning you do could make you dizzy and with all this garbage in this post of yours you certainly appear to be very dizzy. Lying and spinning are about the same and you do a lot of both, You have now convinced me, YOU ARE A DUMMY!!

          • Frank Kahn

            POINT ONE, YOU DID NOT COPY YOUR ENTIRE POST TO THIS ONE, WHICH CONVENIENTLY LEFT OUT THE PART WHERE YOU CALLED ME DUMMY. I AM PASTING YOUR ENTIRE POST HERE FOR PROOF.

            Smilee says:
            November 13, 2012 at 11:50 pm
            You could get dizzy with all that spin, we were talking about votes and votes not cast cannot be counted that is what does not count not those persons that did not cast votes as they do count for something but not for voting when they did not vote nor can you assume whom they might have voted for so no weight can be given those who did not vote GET IT DUMMMY!! . The 47% was those that did not pay taxes but filed so all were employed. Your a nut case.

            Now, maybe you will claim that MY COMPUTER added the “GET IT DUMMY!!” part of your post. Anyway that proves I was not lying or spinning on that issue.

            You will also note that, in your post, you mentioned when reading my post “You could get dizzy”. If you are not implying that it was YOU who got dizzy reading my post, who were you referring to?

            Your original post did not specify votes when saying they dont count. To expect everyone to infer what you meant is unreasonable.

            Saying that I am spinning something does not make it true. If you can find some spin in my post please specify what it is and why.

            I did not misrepresent the numbers in my post, your said everyone that did not vote, that includes two day old babies. It is not a referendum when you only get a very small percentage of a vote. The margin of victory was extremely small. And, assuming that this tiny little difference translates into the vast majority of citizens being pro-Obama is ludicrous. It is actually a valid assumption that most children will mirror their parents sentiments with regards to the politicians. A 5 year old does not understand the issues, but he/she knows that mommy and daddy dont like that man so they dont either.

            I am not spinning this for either side of the aisle. I dont think you can use the numbers from the election to prove the point one way or the other.

            BUT THAT BEING SAID, YOU DID CALL ME NAMES (DUMMY and NUT CASE), that was uncalled for. You claim ERRONEOUSLY that I am spinning things somehow. YOUR POSTS ARE BENT MORE TOWARDS SPIN OR OBFUSCATION BY MISDIRECTION THAN MINE.

          • Smilee

            Frankie

            I copied your post not mine and that is what I responded to not what you now claim. Your lies are getting more and deeper proving you are a dummy and a nut case and it does not matter if I said it or not your behavior and words confirm it is true

          • Frank Kahn

            NO SMILEE, you specifically called me a liar for saying you said I was a DUMMY, I provided proof that I did not lie. And your name calling simply shows your level of intellect.

            You are one of the ignorant (used correctly to describe someone who does not know the facts) people that keeps playing the race card when you cant find anything intelligent to say.

            Assuming that I could find a definition for the term nut case, I would probably find that it is more aptly applied to your posts than mine, considering I use verifiable facts and not emotional name calling in my posts.

          • Smilee

            FRANKIE

            NO SMILEE, you specifically called me a liar for saying you said I was a DUMMY, I provided proof that I did not lie.{

            [NO PROOF WHAT SO EVER WHICH IS ANOTHER LIE OF YOURS]

            And your name call[ing simply shows your level of intellect

            . [IT ACCURATELY DESCRIBES YOU]

            You are one of the ignorant (used correctly to describe someone who does not know the facts)

            [MY STATEMENTS HAVE ALL BEEN TRUE AND FACTUAL, ANOTHER LIE FROM YOU]

            people that keeps playing the race card when you cant find anything intelligent to say.

            [NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS POST, ONLY PROVES YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF STAYING ON TOPIC]

            Assuming that I could find a definition for the term nut case, I would probably find that it is more aptly applied to your posts than mine, considering I use verifiable facts and not emotional name calling in my posts

            .[NOTHING BUT PURE BS AND GARBAGE]

          • Frank Kahn

            IGNORANCE IS THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT KNOWING BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO FIND OUT, STUPIDITY IS KNOWING BUT REFUSING TO ADMIT THE TRUTH. SO NOW YOU ARE STUPID, YOU CALLED ME DUMMY, I PROVED IT WITH YOUR OWN POST, YOU SAY I DID NOT PROVE IT AND SO YOU ARE A LIAR.

            NOW YOU ARE CONFIRMED AS A STUPID LIAR. FACTUALLY DETERMINED WITH CORRECT FACTS FOR BASIS.

            YOU HAVE NEVER PRESENTED ANY FACT WHICH MEANS WE CAN NEITHER CONFIRM NOR DENY YOU ALLEGATIONS. BUT SINCE YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN ANY FACTS, YOUR STATEMENT THAT THEY ARE TRUE IS ANOTHER LIE.

            RACISM IS THE ORIGINAL SUBJECT OF YOUR POST SO I DID NOT GET OFF TOPIC. ANOTHER INDICATION THAT YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH COMPREHENSION.

            IT HAS BEEN SHOWN THAT YOU ARE THE LIAR IN THIS DISCUSSION. YOUR ATTEMPTS TO HIDE THE FACTS OF WHAT YOU SAY WILL NOT GARNER YOU ANY CREDIBILITY. YOU CANNOT LIE ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE SAID BECAUSE IT IS HERE TO SEE PERMANENTLY. I EVEN COPIED THE BLOG STREAM TO MY COMPUTER FOR FUTURE REFERENCE.

            I AM NOT SURE HOW TO DEAL WITH SOMEONE AS DELUDED AND RACIST AS YOU ARE. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT ANY NORMAL PERSON CAN PENETRATE YOUR STUBBORN MENTAL DEFENSES AND LET SOME LIGHT OF TRUTH IN? I DOUBT IT BUT WE MUST TRY TO HELP ENLIGHTEN OUR LESS INTELLIGENT BROTHERS.

          • Smilee

            Freankie WOW!! all you do is waddle in mud, garbage and lies,, hate & anger so a response to all theses lies is not worth the effort. You totally off the mark with me and your imagination is working over time creating all this fantasy and fiction. You need help!

          • Frank Kahn

            As many others on this site understand, it is you who is wallowing in mud. It is you who spews forth lies without remorse. It is you who has hate in your heart.

            You are nothing if not truthful, you can never be respected by your fellow man until you respect yourself. You fail in life because you fail yourself.

            Give me one fact, any fact that you can find, I will discuss it with you rationally. If you continue to ignore this concept then stop talking, we dont need or want your silly ranting and raving about nonsensical delusions.

      • mark

        Dear Bob,

        I haven’t curtailed anyone’s free speech or advocated doing so. I merely called a poster to the site, Mr. Cook, for his racist remark about “greedy, lazy, minorities.” In your article yesterday, Bob, you rightly condemned the internment of Japanese-Americans considered to be a greedy, traitorous minority by most Americans in the early 1940s. Mr. Cook can and no doubt will continue to make such comments on this site as long as he wishes to, smearing all of our minority ciitzens as greedy and lazy. It troubles me that so many posters on this site do so, but I certainly do not have the right nor wish to stop them from doing so.

        Best Wishes, mark

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Smilee,”

        I AM TIRED OF HEARING PEOPLE SAY, THOSE WHO DO NOT VOTE CAN NOT COMPLAIN; PAYING TAXES GIVES ALL AMERICANS THE RIGHT TO COMPLAIN. EVEN, THE “UNDER-THE-VIADUCT” SLEEPING “DRUNK” CAN COMPLAIN AFTER PAYING A QUARTER IN TAXES [IN TENNESSEE] FOR A TWO-DOLLAR HALF-PINT OF WHISKEY.

      • Smilee

        I never said anything about complaining I merely said their vote does not count, now I will say something about complaining, your specialty, your whining is so childish!!

      • sam1966

        Chris and Frankie, be advised that Smelly is only here to cause hate, spew lies, and cause dissention among the ranks. Smelly never posts anything truthful or factual, just lies, rhetoric, and innuendo. He is a perfect example of Josef Goebbels. Smelly also didn’t even have the nads to serve or do anything for this country, but has the nerve to say he/she is a patriot? Smelly is one of the ones I say are part of the 5th column that is destroying this great country from the inside out. BTW, you are right Frankie. Smelly was doing personal attacks on you by name calling. He/she should realize that such things makes him/her look childish and less intelligent. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! Here is something that he/she and their ilk are doing to this country. I challenge Smelly to try to discredit it.

        http://www.godfatherpolitics.com/7984/obama-dems-already-holding-america-hostage-blaming-gop/#ixzz2BjXZw19Q

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves Smelly out.

        • Frank Kahn

          thanks for your input and support, but please note that my name is Frank not Frankie and I considered that another insult by smilee

          • sam1966

            I apollogize for calling your Frankie. Next time will be Frank. Thanks for your comments. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

            You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

            “A patriot must be a religious man.”

            Thomas Jefferson

      • sam1966

        “The Bible should always remain the principle textbook in America’s classrooms.”

        Fisher Ames
        Author of the 1st Amendment

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Smilee,”

        I AM NOT IN THE CLOSET. I HAVE GIVEN MONEY TO THE KNIGHTS’ PARTY.

    • WILDFIRE

      I agree, that is what it will have to come down too, there is no other way to get the attention of the sheeple that have been brainwashed and dumbed down.

    • Hey you

      Yes, a pipe dream now, but a very strong indication of the trend. It’s now only a matter of time.
      However, I don’t have the courage to sign a secession petition. I don’t want to be on a federal disloyalty list even though leaving a massive collective seems to be appropriate and inevitable.

  • Flashy

    Ahhh…..the patriotism of the Tea Party “patriots” shines so bright.

    The message from the TP “patriots” —>We didn’t win the election, we don’t like what the majority of the people want (even the majority/large minority of voters of our respective states) so we want to pout and quit and destroy it all. Either that, or rebel and overthrow the Will of the People because they won’t do what we, the extremist minority, want them to do.

    • Patriot1776

      Flashy, yes the Tea Party Patriotism does shine bright. It was a similar situation that started this great nation lead by the original patriots fighting against Great Britain. There were those back then, who, like you, also stood with the king and against the freedoms espowsed by those great men.

      You run off at the mouth about the “majority” having spoken. Yes, obama won the election. Were the results clean? We will never know the truth. But one truth we do know is that this great nation is a republic, not a democracy. It isn’t a majority rule, but all people.

      • Flashy

        Last I heard, your state has a voice in the government decisions. Equal voice with all the other states in the Senate. And when anyone can figure out a) how to pay for the federal properties in their states and b) quell the civil unrest as the saner, majority portion of the population says “are you guys totally nuts?” … I’d like to know.

        The petitions are all hype and worthless. Y’all don’t like this nation? leave. And close the door behind you as you do.

      • Patriot1776

        I love this nation. What I don’t like is the direction that it is rapidly taking toward the failed methodologies of socialism. The reason that our great and wise founding fathers made this a republic and not a democracy is because they understood human nature and what would happen if the majority ever became takers instead of makers. What they didn’t foresee was the American people allow the destruction of this nation.

      • eddie47d

        Majority rule is “all the people”: Conservatives,Liberals and every color had a voice in this election as was the same in most elections in the last half century. Did Liberals demand succession from the Union when G Bush won or Ronald Reagan? The reasoning from some of you is very suspect but if you do succeed you will no longer be an American so don’t try and claim that title.

    • David Ozanne

      You are a dupe of the progressive, aka, socialists, aka, communists. Zero did not win the election, he got it through blatant fraud by some areas where 185% of the registered voters voted for him. Get some truth into your lazy hide. Examine what really happened.

      • burt

        facts never bother a leftist…..a product of our “edookathan”
        Why Romney is quiet?

      • mark

        Yeah sure, David. And if Romney had carried three more large states like Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio and defeated Obama 273-265 (do the math, these 3 states have 67 electoral votes and if you subtract them from Obama’s 332 tally and add them to Romney’s 206 that would be the result – a 273-265 Romney win), it would have been a clean and glorious victory in which the American people reclaimed their birthright and took America back again. What sour grapes from you guys. What a bunch of sore losers and crybabies. When Bush was reelected in 2004 in a much, much closer election (286-252 for Bush) that hinged on one state Ohio (it had 20 electoral votes in 2004), I was sad but he was still my president. Even in 2000 when Bush won electorally by 4 votes 271-267, and trailed Gore nationally by 550,000 in the popular vote, Democrats did not propose secession. You guys have a beautiful philosphy, if conservatives win, it is a clean election that everyone must abide by. But if liberals win, the election is rigged and we want to secede. How convenient. And what glaring hypocrisy.

      • eddie47d

        Apparently facts don’t bother Ozanne or Burt. Is lying their specialty?

    • czman75

      The majority of the majority are fraudulent votes, upwards of 400,000!

      • Flashy

        I don’t suppose you have any proof of that claim?

        LOL

      • eddie47d

        They don’t need any stinkin proof what were you thinking Flashy? Yet they will demand it from Progressives but not from their fellow travelers aka;Conservatives.

      • Flashy

        Sorry Eddie. i forgot my manners. Guess i’m kinda tweaked how ungrateful these extremists are. I mean, here we go and set aside all those FEMA camps for them, in essence giving them their own space as they are now asking for…and they aren’t even grateful and mannerly.

        Jeesh …

      • Mikey

        Here ya go Flashy and Eddie:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4aKOhbbK9E

      • eddie47d

        We all know anything is possible Mikey but here is the kicker. The Romney’s owned and had stake in those Ohio voting machines so if they were rigged I bet the trail would lead to them. I pointed out and brought up in 2009 who owned the companies who build the voting machines and listed them. All were Conservative companies with Conservative CEOs. So if any of that rigging is going on then more than likely it would be programmed at those company headquarters. That would also lead to them. Since polling places generally have bipartisan workers from both parties it would be difficult to change how the votes are counted at the individual polling stations.

      • Flashy

        Mikey….are you saying the GOP could have reprogrammed voting machines to take a few states and districts? What companies made them, who were their lobbyists, and why were most of the ones found not operating correctly registering votes for Romney and not Obama?

      • Mikey

        Yes, perhaps they were built by companies that had conservative employees. However, if you follow the testimony, anyone with programming knowledge could have tampered with the machines. I’m not pointing fingers at either party, this is merely proof of how easily voter fraud takes place. And since the “ends justifies the means” to liberals, I certainly wouldn’t put it past them to have tampered with the polls.

    • RobinPC

      Spoken as a real Obama supporter! I think your free cell phone is ringing, why not answer it and spew your opinions to the person calling on their free cell phone.

    • http://alsina846.wordpress.com millie

      in case you are not aware, voter fraud was committed by the democrats, it was committed in 2008 where dead people voted and it was done on this election. this undocumented bogus president, chicago mob style, stole the election. More then half of the nation wanted him out of office, mainly the freeloaders and the relatives of the illegals combine with voter fraud, that is why he won. Most Americans would like to him impeach, and put in jail where he blongs, and the Benghazi, somewhere along the lines, this bogus prez is involved and one day the truth will come out. This man is bad news anyway you put, he is tearing this country apart.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        I had an uncle in Chicago who was a die-hard conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died. Now he votes Democrat.

      • eddie47d

        Millie: “Most Americans want him impeached”. LOL! No the majority of Americans reelected him. You’ll have your chance next time unless you are still as cold and callous as you are this time. If you are a bigger sore loser and full of hate in 2016 you may lose again.

      • Dennis48e

        There are I believe 59 precencts in Philidelphia with ZERO votes for Romney. The chances of him not getting even one vote out of those 59 is much less than 1%. Even though obama would probably have carried all 59 there should have been a few votes for Romney recorded.

      • Flashy

        Dennis…criminey….think it through fer chrissakes…

        In a city with 1,687 of the ward subsets known as divisions, each with hundreds of voters, 59 is about 3.5 percent of the total. There’s an average of 332 people in these divisions … these divisions are likely to be heavily African American (in many cases probably 100%.) Is it really that unbelievable that a group of 332 AAs in Philadelphia would all vote for President Obama? … Obama probably won well over 95% of the black vote in Philadelphia, so I don’t think it’s really all that unlikely.

        Now…shall we consider how many wards and districts in the southern states that gave the President 0 votes?

    • WILDFIRE

      What you are claiming to be the majority of “the people spoke”, those people spoke multiple times in order to acquire the majority = voter fraud, do your research spook

    • Joh Newman

      It’s not about pouting or quitting; but it is about destroying. Destroying the treasonous, common street urchin thug that was given a golden pass by the powers that be to be President and run interference for their suppression of individual rights and their Global Totalitarian take over.

      It’s more about the Feds usurping the 10th amendment…and almost every other amendment. It’s about the characteristic ‘quality’ of the majority voting themselves the ‘right’ to other peoples earnings, property and assets to be – haha, this is hard to say without laughing – fairly and equitably redistributed by the government.

      What most people and these states are trying to destroy is crony capitalism, corruption and Chicago mob style politics and people like Eric Holder who perjures himself with the crook in chief’s endorsement…and now Benghazi. Their arrogance for corruption and making laws to fit their agenda is blatant they don’t even pretend to hide it anymore; which is one of many signs of the end.

      It’s about fighting and destroying capital controls (taxes, monetary terrorism aka inflation) and tyranny. It’s about fighting for freedom and liberty, but also for dignity. The dignity of keeping what you work for and build without fear of someone taking it in the name of social justice, wealth redistribution and centralized government planning.

      • Steve E

        God is on the side of the Secessionist. So let’s get to work.

      • eddie47d

        Mao succeeded from the Imperialist Warlords. How did that work out? I didn’t know wishful thinking was a Conservative value. Maybe you yearn for a slavery of the good ol’ days.

      • Steve E

        You can be my slave if you want. I’ll give you three hots and a cot.

      • Mikey

        If we continue on the path O has set for us, we’ll ALL soon be slaves of the NWO.

      • sam1966

        I see that ed-duh is lying again. Mao did not secede from the Chinese Emperor, but rebelled. You can secede from a country peacefully, but rebellion always leads to death and destruction. As long as these states do it peacefully, the one that will fire first will be Obama bin Laden. Here is what Texas and Louisiana want to do peacefully.

        http://www.freedomoutpost.com/2012/11/petitions-to-white-house-grant-tx-la-peaceful-withdraw-from-us/

        Notice how they correctly use the Declaration of Independence as a source to base their argument on? Good job! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistably drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgements for those blessings to the Divine Author of All Good (GOD).”

        James Monroe
        2nd Annual Message to Congress
        November 16, 1818.

    • Joh Newman

      It’s not about pouting or quitting; but it is about destroying. Destroying the treasonous, common street urchin thug that was given a golden pass by the powers that be to be President and run interference for their suppression of individual rights and their Global Totalitarian take over.

      It’s more about the Feds usurping the 10th amendment…and almost every other amendment. It’s about the characteristic ‘quality’ of the majority voting themselves the ‘right’ to other peoples earnings, property and assets to be – haha, this is hard to say without laughing – fairly and equitably redistributed by the government.

      What most people and these states are trying to destroy is crony capitalism, corruption and Chicago mob style politics and people like Eric Holder who perjures himself with the crook in chief’s endorsement…and now Benghazi. Their arrogance for corruption and making laws to fit their agenda is blatant they don’t even pretend to hide it anymore; which is one of many signs of the end.

      It’s about fighting and destroying capital controls (taxes, monetary terrorism aka inflation) and tyranny. It’s about fighting for freedom and liberty, but also for dignity. The dignity of keeping what you work for and build without fear of someone taking it in the name of social justice, wealth redistribution and centralized government planning.

    • Tony Ruiz

      Sometimes I call my dog Flash “Flashy” but I will quit that now. You’re an idiot, another one of so many. “The People” were not heard in the election…n’er do wells were en masse. Many good people stayed home. obama is bad. Period. Our illustrious speaker isn’t worth the gunpowder to blow him to hell, tears and all. And a congress that has allowed an illegal muslim to run, let alone become, president is unacceptable to awake, thinking American. And the more of the inane posts I see here the better I understand how we got to be this way…a loser country. Not only did we lose but we ARE lost because we’re somewhat if not pretty much a Godless nation now and don’t deserve any better than our congress, a muslim president and the trash who voted for him. TRASH. People like Leno interviews who don’t know who’s buried in Grant’s tomb. Movie ‘stars’, unions, ignorant [comment has been edited], mexicans and white trash to name a few factions. Christian nation my butt.

      It’s time.

      • eddie47d

        You are no true Christian Tony and your hate and deceitful comments proves that out.

    • steven

      Assflashy whatever you ever served besides french fries at McDonald’s

    • Tony

      The majority have not spoken they stayed home because both sides are to far to the left.

    • Ghost

      Flashy make sure you know where we are coming from, we get our freedoms from God not our neighbor therefor voting our neighbors freedom away is not righteous it is self righteous. We have every right to take whatever means necessary to gain them back first we are going to go the route less bloody but because of the rule of the land which states socialism in any form is a completely irrational form of governance therefor anyone who buys into it is not a rational person and can NOT be reasoned with, things aren’t looking to good for those like yourself, one only has the freedoms one is willing to fight for, and I said fight not debate, argue or talk about the day of reckoning is coming you pathetic little turd and it doesn’t matter if you are an American or not it will affect you

      • eddie47d

        Hey Spook no one is stopping you from going to church and worshiping as you chose. See you in the pew this Sunday?

    • http://www.facebook.com/rhonda.reichel Rhonda Reichel

      When the govt, doesn’t follow the constitution they all SWORE TO UPHOLD they are really giving the people no other choice. Peaceful secession is not overthrowing the government.
      Texas was a republic BEFORE we joined the union and have more legal right to secede than any other state. We would be much better off if we do. Now we have to vote Rick Perry out and elect Debra Medina and it will be the best thing that ever happened to Texas.

      • TML

        I would correct you by saying that it would make more sense for a State that was actually an independent nation at one time to lead the way, and is probably the most capable State to do so next to Alaska and Hawaii, but certainly doesn’t have “more legal right to secede than any other”. All states have the equal right/power to secede under the Constitution simply because secession is nowhere mentioned in the document, and thus is not a right/power delegated to the United States Federal Government to dictate. Such power is reserved to the State, and so Federal refusal to recognize such would be a violation of the Constitution.

      • Jimmy the Greek

        Medina that sounds like a mexican name , After Texas gets free from washington she well have to move south of the river , give me a better one than her .

    • TML

      By the standard you express, if it is the will of the majority (2/3 vote) within a State to secede, then acceptance of secession shouldn’t be an issue. It’s not about over-ruling or overthrowing the will of the majority. If you mean, “will of the people” or “majority” as in the people of the whole nation then I will remind you that the majority of the nation cannot vote away a right or power reserved to the State, that never was delegated to the United States.

      Btw… it’s unlikely that it would “destroy” anything. Life in those states who remain in the Union would continue much the same.

    • Nobody’s Fool

      Flashy, can any truth cut through your skull and get into your brain?? Just asking, because your posts sure make you look like a rock headed idiot.

  • Corkey

    I believe the Texas petition has already exceeded 50K signatures. Texas, by itself, has the 15th largest economy in the world so they really don’t need the Feds.

    • Flashy

      LOL yeah, but Texas needs the North and West. Add to that the forecasts that Texas will be a solid swing state within the next ten years….i highly doubt the more sane (i.e. Moderate) person will take kindly to suppression. Which, of course, will be required for any seceding state to do.

      let’s see…we want to secede because we don’[t think we have enough freedom…and we’ll suppress anyone who disagrees with that. And we have enough funds to take care of ourselves in the likelihood of natural disaster, and the overage of federal funds received versus what we send in? Well…there’s always begging for foreign aid and suckling at that teat…

      As almost every red State takes in from the federal government more than send to the Nation…Federal funds received for every tax dollar sent in…per capita…for Texas is….$1.19. LOL…so almost 17% of your revenues…poof.

      ironic…the states listed are those taking more federal funds than sending revenues in.

      • We the People

        They will be keeping those dollars that now go to Federal government and an ut off all assistance to illgals…they will be fine!

      • geodepe

        Texas paid the third most taxes in the country last year, so naturally they would get back more on average. Silly math. [see http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/federal_revenue_by_state.php

      • http://AT&T Jan

        You must be another bottom feeder. Texas has everything it needs to survive, we just
        need to rid ourselves of all the illegals, that means all, not just latinos

      • CB19

        Flashy – once TX gets rid of the mandated handouts that the Feds force upon them they will not have to worry about the 17% you talk about. That will all change. Your thought process on that is static and flawed. Now back to Utopia for you.

      • Jetman

        News flash, in 2010 we had massive fires in Texas and when Perry asked obama for help it was denied. So we paid for all of the damage. We also have the largest Army base and Airforce base so we are well preparded to defend our state. With the Feds out of our way we would be able to take control of our borders.

      • rhcrest

        It won’t be a swing state if all the leftists are kicked out and none allowed in which is as it should be.

      • Flashy

        Obviously a knee jerk action to pull more money into the coffers of the extremist TP accounts. go ahead, blow off steam and pout.

        Y’all won’t do anything but confirm and establish firmly the label of being whacked and out of touch with reality, out of touch with society, and someone to watch warily on the streets.

        When the Roman Empire split off..the West broke up into fiefdoms and individual territories controlled by warlords. And began the Dark Ages filled with stories of plunder, pillaging, war, plague and death. The Eastern portion stayed together, and existed for almost 500 years longer as the resources of the combined lands kept the economy and peoples united. There is strong argument that the Eastern Empire never ceased as a unit, taken over by the Ottomans and as a country existing up until WWI.

        As the stats show the higher the education levels, the more likely moderate the voter..so educational flight occurs. housing values plummet, civil discord begins as the society begins to split along racial, economic, and social lines. Budgets run in the red.

        Yep…as the North and West (Blue) become more closely aligned with a Canadien identity, the Red (mostly South) become identified as a Central American banana republic….

        yep…seems like a good deal to any sane person…

        Jeesh….

      • DavidL

        Sooner than that I believe. 4 out of the 5 largest counties in Texas voted for Obama.

        I share many of your perspective, Flashy. Here is another to help those contemplating seceding from the UNION. (Of course, the Civil War settled the legality of that question- but it’s fun the weigh in here). I would like the red states to secede. The blue states are subsidizing them and have been for years. Here is an interesting set of facts to chew on for the red state secessionists.

        http://www.voxeu.org/article/which-50-states-practise-personal-responsibility

        Here is an excerpt from the Harvard study:

        “The statistical reality is that the red-staters are, on average, less prone to pay income taxes, more prone to receive subsidies from the federal government, less physically fit, less responsible in their sexual behaviour, more prone to inflict harm on themselves and on others through smoking, drunk driving and misuse of firearms, and more prone to freeride on the healthcare system, compared to blue-staters.”

        Secede away, red staters, you are really the 47% Romney should have been talking about.

      • eddie47d

        The states of Alabama and Mississippi had the most racist Tweets during this last election. I reckon they are trying to keep with with their over all education ratings. Old times there are definitely not forgotten. Maybe now California can pay down its debt for they only receive $.80 for every dollar sent in to the federal treasury unlike those Southern red states.

      • http://www.facebook.com/rhonda.reichel Rhonda Reichel

        foreign aid….I hadn’t even thought of that….we would gladly take that 4 BILLION the U.S. gives to Israel

      • Flashy

        Rhonda…a handout? you’d secede because you don’t want to bear any burden of part of the national debt..then ask for handouts? Wow …. do you see the irony in that ?

      • Smilee

        Jan says:
        November 13, 2012 at 7:57 am

        If you declared war on them illegals and lost then where would you be. Immigrate to the US as so many want to do now and if the US decides that no Texans are allowed then you would be without a country. Oh, the unintended consequent this stupidity could cause you. Loss of all the military and support jobs, earned income credits gone, food stamps gone which so many Texans depend upon to survive and if they take up arms with the illegals which they might. I can visualize you running for the US Border as a refugee wiyh you tail between your legs. Have a good day!!

    • Tony

      As far as paying for leaving the US union, I believe you under count how much money will come to a state once a company sees it want have to pay 30% federal income tax anymore they will flock to that state.

      • Smilee

        Texas gets more money from the feds than it pays in taxes to them a loss they would they would have to make up on their own from a lot smaller pool of taxpayers, its simple arithmetic. The military bases do not belong to Texas so that person above who thinks they would get the military bases is dreaming. You people are your own worst enemies so you will not succeed

  • Jonathan

    This is one of the best articles I’ve read in a long time!!!! Thanks Sam Rolley.

    • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

      “Jonathan,” THIS IS A GREAT THREAD – I LIKE IT! “KUDOS” TO “Sam Rolley!”

  • Dave

    I keep wondering if we wouldn’t be looking at Confederate States 2.0 at some point…..

    • Right Brain Thinker

      CSA TWO? Not likely. They would get their butts kicked AGAIN. The good thing about that would be that we could again “reconstruct” the losers. Maybe it will “take” this time and we won’t have CSA THREE in the future.

      And I wish someone would explain how talk of secession comes from people who call themselves PATRIOT and REAL AMERICAN and the like. My right brain churns the facts and keeps coming up with TREASON and TRAITORS as more appropriate.

      Would someone also explain how a rebellion by colonists against an an oppressive regime (that had a KING, no less) in any way equates with a civil war-secession by a bunch of sore losers that can’t accept how our elections and government are supposed to work even though they had a part in designing that government? And who would destroy the country through their churlish and petulant need to have it their way? Sounds like Viet Nam again—the “We had to destroy the village in order to save it” thing.

      • olinda

        You people dont know what is going on in this country,becouse nobody want to work any more and you all vote for santa so you can get free stuff from him,and later when you see the economy going down,and Santa get tired to feed you free you all will trye to see the light …is going to be to late and you will be sorry you did notthing to bring thesecountry back….they going to tax the rich…they will close …and go to another country .like Panama…or Costa Rica….were taxes …are better and live over there is growin…so thin again what American did in election day … i call it estupidity…..

      • TML

        The answer to both questions is; secession is an American thing. It was coined in the founding document of this country that whenever any form of government becomes destructive to the inalienable rights of human beings, it is the right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to affect their Safety and Happiness. Secession viewed as treason is the establishment false teaching that so many have cried for over 150 years, when in fact, secession was a commonly held valid right of each state… even prior to the Civil War. I accept the definition of patriotism as that effort to resist government abuse of power. Secession is not treason, but patriotism.

        It’s hardly about being any kind of sore loser. It has directly to do with tyrannical, totalitarian, or fascist laws laid down by the federal government that destroys personal liberty and individual freedom, such as the NDAA and Patriot Act, a result of perpetual war through imperialism. And these things, in the midst of a two party system which has essentially carried the same policies on both sides of the isle, there is no end in sight to these violations to citizens of this country.

        With such increasing usurpations, not only of individual rights, but also of State powers; secession is a reasonably viable alternative. America would not be destroyed, and life within those states that remain in the Union would continue much the same.

        I’m always fascinated by how upset and angry people tend to get about a State contemplating secession when they do not even reside within that state.

      • Flashy

        ” you all vote for santa so you can get free stuff from him,” <– Olinda

        Oh! You better watch out,
        You better not cry,
        You better not pout,
        I'm telling you why:
        Santa Claus is coming to town!

        He's making a list,
        Checking it twice,
        Gonna find out who's naughty or nice.
        Santa Claus is coming to town!

        He sees you when you're sleeping,
        He knows when you're awake.
        He knows if you've been bad or good,
        So be good for goodness sake!

        Oh! You better watch out,
        You better not cry,
        You better not pout,
        I'm telling you why:
        Santa Claus is coming to town!

      • matforce

        I’m obviously not as willing to allow our elite to slip of the hook of culpability as you are. That it is a win-win situation for our CEOs, their stock holders and Wall Street with its financial institutions, hedge fund managers, and even the small time investment firms on one hand, and the “Illuminati” (as they’ve been called since antiquity), straddling the globe, pulling the strings of international influence, money, and power (where, ostensibly, with a nod of the head, nations fall), the fleecing of the USA’s vast wealth would bode well for both unless they were fettered by some silly, mundane notions like ethics, patriotism, or jurisrpudence. If, indeed, Trillions in capital flow from the Grand USA into the pockets of “multinational” corporations and all those down stream in the money making tree, while at the same time, the USA is brought to the point of vulnerability of losing their sovereignty so that they fall in line with the “New World Order,” you have one hell of a cracker jack solution where everyone makes out… except for ______________ youi fill in the blank.

        History will not be kind to the Plutocrats who perpetrated this sell-out for filthy lucre, but it will be less kind to our legislators, bought and paid for, who allowed this to happen on their watch!

    • Steve E

      If the CSA can get an atomic bomb. No one will mess with it.

      • eddie47d

        Atta boy Steve pull out the bully card! Still carrying that landmine between your ears?

      • Steve E

        You mean like when Lincoln bullied the South when they left the Union? No, not like that, The bomb would be for defensive purposes.

  • vgentry@marcduttonirr.com

    I wasn’t asked to sign a petition in Michigan, but I would in a heart beat. How do I do it?

  • http://personalliberty.com/2012/11/13/secede-or-dont-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-federal-monopoly-on-power/ Jeffrey

    where do I sign and how do I get involved?

  • Lawrence

    I say go for it. This will only prove to the american people that we have tyrants running things. I fear the states will not be successful. The feds are to powerful and will send in Obama’s private army to quell cecessation. Our only hope is God. Obey the laws as best you can and disobey when they go against your conscience.

    • WILDFIRE

      Though I believe in God, Relying solely on God is going to get you no where nor will anything to say be taken seriously and be discredited as soon as you mention his name. God did not get us into this situation, Humans got us into this situation and it will take humans to get us out of it. Ask God for guidance, but don’t expect God to cast a spell and fix all the wrong doings. Humans must step up and make the change.

      • http://none Charlie

        Wildfire,,,
        You say you believe in God, is that the Almighty God??? Well,, We got some news for you and others…….. The Devil also believes in The Almighty God… YOU!!! are NOT a servant of The King of kings, the Lord of lords as your comment well states … Mark this on your barn wall,,,”””When and IF America is taken back , it Will be done Primarily with The Prayer Power of The King’s Men”””… “”Faith”” in King Jesus Christ is what brought this American to it’s Greatness… Faith is ACTION upon belief… Meanwhile…………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Charlie,” I WAS WONDERING WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU. NICE TO SEE YOUR COMMENTS.

      • http://none Charlie

        CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON,,,
        Thanks,,,yep,,, We’re still being blessed by King Jesus,,,how you doing? Remember to,,
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts :38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Charlie,” DOIN’ GREAT, SIR.

        “Charlie,” I WONDER WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU IF SOMEHOW The Bible PAGE FEATURING, “Acts 2:38,” IS TORN OUT? YOU ARE EXTREMELY LOYAL TO THAT VERSE.

  • T. Jefferson

    Texas now has over 60,000 signatures

  • Tim L.

    Take note: We can expect this kind of screeming and kicking for the next four years. Do you remember when Clinton was first elected? Before the man ever took office, the right-wing whack-jobs were sporting bumper stickers which read, “Impeach Billery.” This is more of the same thing, only this time it’s not just anti-democrats. This time all of the racists have jumped on board: Right-wing whack-jobs + Racists = TEA PARTY. I am proud that so many people in this country stood up and voted for President Obama. We the people struck a devastating blow to the racists. We slapped those bastards down and they are not at all happy. I don’t think secession is the answer, because each of these states is home to folks who are happy with the outcome of this election. I think these malcontents should pack-up and move to another country since they obviously despise everything this country is supposed to stand for.

    Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/the-most-awkward-we-the-people-petition-imaginable.html#ixzz2C6u3Jgr7

    • WILDFIRE

      yeah so many stood up and voted for Obama MULTIPLE TIMES = voter fraud

      • Smilee

        You could not prove that if your life was at stake, your just an angry idiot making up stories based on stupidity

      • Flashy

        Smilee..the Right and GOP used almost every dirty trick in the book to suppress the vote. Paul Weyrich stated time and again the more people that vote, the less the chance conservatives would win. The Voter ID laws, changing polling stations, cutting back the number of stations in Democratic districts, the robo calls giving the wrong date, turning away people or telling them they had to use a Provisional ballot, cutting back days of early voting, “losing’ voter registrations, trashing voter registrations which were marked Dem. or in Dem districts, filling in unmarked spots in ballots, etc etc

        Voter fraud does not usually involve the voter…it involves the election boards and officials..and usually all connected to conservatives.

        here’s the irony of all….up in Washington state, there were a group of TPers “poll watching’ and taking pics of voters (minorities)…and someone began taking their pic. The “poll watchers” got all upset, called the police, and created a huge scene of yelling, ranting, raving, etc

        Yep … true patriots those TPers. One should ask..for what are they patriots for? ‘Cause it sure as heck isn’t America !

    • Tony Ruiz

      I think YOU should move

      • eddie47d

        Be a good German Wildfire and move to South America like the rest of those right wing Fascists did!

    • Right Brain Thinker

      NIcely said, Tim. Did you notice those brilliant rejoinders from two of those “whack-jobs” you referred to to? Proves my point about motivated reasoning once again.

  • http://liberty Tony

    To Everyone here: The only thing i can say to these secessionist, grow up!! We’re in the second decade of the 21st cent. Farewell now!!

  • Dave67

    Don’t let the door hit you on the way out… Somalia would be perfect for you… All the freedom you could want.

    You conservatives are awfully racist and bitter aren’t you after the incredible lose your philosophy took last week.

    If people like Sam could just leave the country, we can get back to making this country a better place for all.

    • CB19

      Uh OHHHH. Race Card was just played! Dave67 you have nothing intelligent to say… sooooooo lets play the race card. You just lost all credibility – haven’t you figured that out yet?

      • Dave67

        Hmmmm… no racism involved? Funny, I don’t remember all the freedoms you lunatics were crying about losing when Clinton was president. No questions about McCain’s BC when he was running for POTUS.

        Sorry, if your side can’t admit to the racist component going on here.

      • Smilee

        The race card is alive and active again in this country because of people like you. KKK went from less than 300 members to over 6000 members in the last four years and growing. These people are not patriots and I wonder about you.

      • Steve E

        Dave is the racist,. He who smelt it, dealt it.

      • eddie47d

        Now watch closely in how CB19 and Wildfire stand against Conservatives who make racial remarks. They will now become a chorus of crickets!

      • Mikey

        It’s funny how the left always pulls the race card. Yet, when the facts are examined, it turns out that the Democrats have always been far more racist, especially towards blacks.
        Eddie, Dave, please read the following article. It consists of documented FACTS, the history of what both parties have done along racial lines. And don’t wimp out, read the entire article all the way to modern times.

        http://www.black-and-right.com/the-democrat-race-lie/

        BTW, the author is an African American. And a conservative.

        You guys are wrong. Period.

      • eddie47d

        I wouldn’t wimp out because its a proven fact that Democrats use to be the biggest racists to occupy American culture and politics. That was then and this is now. The scenario has mostly flipped to the other side although I don’t approve of the black racists who have emerged within the Democrat Party. Yet most Southerners who are still racists clearly belong to the Republican Party or other far right fringe parties. I absolutely am not calling all Republicans racists . That is a personal problem if they are.

      • Mikey

        Eddie,
        I’m glad you aren’t calling all conservative racist, I have yet to meet any conservative that is racist (at least not openly).
        You do state, however, “Yet most Southerners who are still racists clearly belong to the Republican Party or other far right fringe parties.”
        Clearly? Where do you get your information? Has someone polled the KKK for their political affiliations? If so, I’d sure like to see it.
        Racism occurs in all political parties. To continue to rant the the Republicans are the racist party, and the Democrats are not, is wrong. Period.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        DO NOT CONFUSE PREJUDICIAL BIAS ON RACE WITH SOUTHERN CULTURE. NORTHERNERS OFTEN MAKE THIS MISTAKE.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Mikey,”

        DEMOCRATS WILL ALWAYS DISMISS NEGRO REPUBLICANS AS, “TOKENS.”

  • Marc

    Does New York have the right to ask for 30 billions dollars in aid, due to Hurricane Sandy, from the Federal Government if they successfully secede from the U.S.? I am ready for New Yorks’s Governor Cuomo’s answer to my question!

    • teaparty13

      like to know why a Blue state like NY wants to secede, unless it’s folks like me that live upstate don’t want any part of NYC area..big tax drain..

  • Fedup

    Flashy, you had better run along now; Obama needs you to kiss his ass afresh!

  • Dave67

    America… Love it or leave it.

    So leave already racist conservatives… We won’t miss you I promise.

    • CB19

      You are a Hack

      • Dave67

        And you are a conservative moron easily duped by the right wing spin machine.

      • Flashy

        Dave67….do you have the feeling it’s a marketing scheme to garner more emails and names to solicit funds from to keep the controls and extremist machine in place. A few people are getting very wealthy soaking the extremist saps for money…

      • Dave67

        Flashy,

        Unfortunately these lunatics believe anything the right wing media tells them… They complain about the loss of “freedom” yet they can’t name anything they could do in 2008 that they can’t in 2012. They listen to a moron like Wayne LaPierre from the NRA that Obama is going to take their guns away… Result? more NRA membership. Obama has only allowed guns to be taken on Fed Land.

        These conservative lack basic critical thinking skills and deal in sound bites…. I am a liberal so I must want a hand out…. Wayne Allen Root predicts a Tricky Mitt landslide victory so it must be true. oops…

        The only cure for the mental disease that is conservatism as practiced in this country is a good education. We have the red states cutting education just to keep people stupid so that they buy into their BS.

      • Smilee

        Flashy says:
        November 13, 2012 at 8:37 am

        I think you hit the nail on the head

      • eddie47d

        Absolutely Flashy that has been the “normal” trend around here.

    • Patriot1776

      Just remember that when the conservatives leave, there is noone to pay the taxes to support the takers. There will also be noone left to give to charities. There will just be the 1% and the moochers.

      • Dave67

        And the election was going to be a landslide for Romney, Obama is coming for your guns, the economy would go to depression under Obama… More BS from the right wing loons.

        You fools are so wrong about so much.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Don’t you know that the red states (where most of the conservatives live) are the “takers” in this country.? The blue states pay more in federal taxes of all kinds than the red states do and get back less than they put in. The red states get back more than they pay in. Look it up.

        If the red states were to secede, taxes would do DOWN for the remaining blue states because they would not have to support all the conservative moochers.

      • Dave67

        Bingo Right… CA, NY, IL get less than a dollar back than they pay into fed coffers… The red states with the exception of oil rich TX get back well over a dollar back.

        Its too funny when these conservative idiots talk about personal responsibility and about how they alone work hard to make an honest living.

        They simply have no clue whatsoever.

      • Smilee

        There are many more conservatives collecting various welfares, earned income credit subsidy is very high in Texas, and all over the south, most are right to work states and they have a high number of underpaid works, many blue states have higher number of union members thus higher wages and thus they pay taxes which is in part used to pay underpaid workers in the south and that is in part of why they get more money back than they pay into the federal treasury.

    • Tony Ruiz

      No, you’re wrong. We can change it.

    • Tony Ruiz

      You’re right. He’s a hack.

    • geodepe

      We are glad to have your support. Texas paid the equivalent of the 21 lowest paying states. http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/federal_revenue_by_state.php

  • Tim Sparks

    If Texas or any other state is granted the right of secession, I would move there in a heartbeat.

    • Steve E

      I will be right behind you, neighbor.

    • TML

      Such state is not ‘granted’ rights. The power of unilateral secession is a power that belongs solely to, and at the discretion of, the State, and thus the people of that state, per 10th Amendment. Secession is not even mentioned in the Constitution, or even how a State could secede, because that is not a power delegated to the United States by the Constitution, and thus is retained by the State. No majority of the Union can vote this right/power away.

      • Flashy

        TML..such was the argument of the Confederacy and rejected by the Union. Lincon (and the Union) took the stance that while the Constitution contains provisions for entering the Union. By ratifying the United States Constitution, the State transfers certain limited sovereign powers to the federal government. As well, the Articles of Confederation (predecessor to the Constitution) states a membership in the union shall be in perpetuity. though the Consitution itself is silent, i believe the SCOTUS has ruled secession to be unConstitutional and we had a Civil War settle the issue.

      • TML

        Flashy says “such was the argument of the Confederacy and rejected by the Union. Lincon (and the Union) took the stance that while the Constitution contains provisions for entering the Union. By ratifying the United States Constitution, the State transfers certain limited sovereign powers to the federal government.”

        Lincoln himself attested to the validity of secession prior to his presidency, and such validity was commonly accepted knowledge. While this is ultimately true, it was rejected for zealous reasons and not any reasonable interpretation of the Constitution in its entirety.
        It is inconceivable that any state would ratify, and join a union, under an untried Constitution, in which they could not withdraw from given reasonable circumstance. As Rhode Island took a long time to do so specifically out of such concern which resulted in the 10th Amendment… in fact, it was their first Amendment in the ratification which reads; “I. The United States shall guaranty to each state its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Constitution expressly delegated to the United States.”. While certain limited sovereign powers were ceded to the United States, nothing within the document disallows a state from seceding the same.

        Flashy says “As well, the Articles of Confederation (predecessor to the Constitution) states a membership in the union shall be in perpetuity.”

        I’m afraid the Articles of Confederation have no bearing upon he Constitution, and we can plainly see that it was not in perpetuity as States could have chosen not o ratify the new Constitution and remain independent nation.

        Flashy says “though the Consitution itself is silent, i believe the SCOTUS has ruled secession to be unconstitutional”

        As I mentioned below…
        Interestingly, such ruling was made immediately following the war. One doesn’t have to be a Constitutional scholar to understand the historical concept behind the Constitution; namely that it only delegates powers to the Federal government, leaving all others reserved for the state and to the people. The federal powers were intentionally few and defined, while those of the states and its people, too numerous to mention. Thus if no provisions for withdraw (secession) are set forth [the Constitution is silent], it is not a power of the Federal Government to dictate, and therefore unilateral secession is perfectly Constitutional.

        Flashy says “…and we had a Civil War settle the issue.”

        Such things can’t be settled by the barrel of a gun. The subjugation of the south is not testimony to the invalidity of unilateral secession, but rather, the ability of a majority to abuse its strength and commit crimes against humanity.

  • matforce

    I wonder what they’d call the seceded states? A fitting tribute to one of the more pronounced divisions in our nation right now is the privatization of everything sot that those at the top can wring out an ever larger profit margin on the ledger, tax policies that favor our rich and their corporations, and the unbridled advantage granted our “multinational” corporations whose profit margins have exploded, thanks to FTAs and corporate policies that grant easy access to 3rd world sweat shops across this “global economy” among “emerging markets” so they can kick the high wage USA worker to the curb, creating a $600 BILLION avg. trade deficit over the past 10 years, a decimated middle class struggling against the vortex of downward pressure on wages to compete for jobs, as well as tax policies that allow our chosen ones to park their vast wealth in offshore accounts to escape taxation of any kind to their nation of origin (I’m getting the distinct impression some of our elite think paying taxes is for chumps; for perspective they should revisit the marginal rates during the BOOM years of the Eisenhower and Kennedy era). An apt name may be, “The Divided States of Plutocracy.”
    Seceding might be a liberating experience until they start cutting the throats of the commoners who seceded with them and screwing each other over for a bigger profit share.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Some good right brain thinking! Don’t pay attention to those who will now call you a commie, tell you to look in a mirror, and suggest that you leave the country. You are a REAL AMERICAN and we need you.

  • Dorsetgal

    TX is the only state who’s State Constitution has secession written in it. Remember TX used to be a Republic before it became one of the United States. (Oh, isn’t the United States of American a Republic? We forget that these days. A democracy we are not!) Folks here are fed up with government intrusion and when there’s a will there’s a way. Secede? You bet. Don’t think it won’t or cannot happen. 2nd Amendment lovers abound in TX. Gun rights alone will keep us in the fight. Never say never. TX is serious this time about secession.

    • mark

      Texas also had tons of guns and lots of gumption back in 1861. But along with other 10 treason states, they all got their butts whipped by 1865. Look it up. It is in all the history books.

      • Euell Stallings

        Mark you need to look it up, the confederate states only lost because of war financing, Texas is in a lot better shape, financially, than the fed is today. Just like the south in the civil war they would be fighting with a purpose, a cause they believe in. That is a powerful force to defeat.

      • Dorsetgal

        Mark, I’d say TX is in fine shape to secede with its fiscal house in better order than most. The United States as a whole wouldn’t be in this boat if they adopted the fiscal restraint of TX. We aren’t perfect here to be sure in the great state of Texas, but we are a far cry from the nonsense that eventually will swallow all of us whole. Like I said, it may be a fight, but TX should have the right to break away from the states as it wishes, period. (We moved here from CA a few months ago. Best thing we ever did!)

      • Steve E

        The South is more industrious now. There is where the big difference. Plus the hatred the south has for progressives and evil, will make them very formidable fighters. If the North tries to stop the South with violence. It will be another Afghanistan for the North.

      • TML

        Don’t get your panties in a wad Mark… the 11 confederate States were not treasonous. It’s in all the history books how they were invaded by the North to subjugate them back under central governmental control by the barrel of a gun. They merely wanted to be left alone in pursuit of their own happiness, and instituted new government that to them would seem most likely to secure their safety and happiness.

        Btw… Texas at the time had a population of approximately 3500 and virtually no battles were ever fought on Texas land. Today, with a population of over 26 million, along with the military installations, and economic capability, not to mention the number of gun owners… you can bet such a confrontation would not end quite the same way.

    • Skysggma

      Please save a little space for my husband and me in the Great State of Texas! We aren’t rich but we know how to tend a garden or whatever is needed.

    • Smilee

      Your little peashooters against the US military, your a joke,, dream on

    • http://none Charlie

      Well,,,I saw on TV a Church burned to the ground near Waco, Texas with sunday school kids inside a few years back … Where was the Lone Ranger ? when needed?..
      What’s the statute of limitation on Murder One by the feds? at Waco? WHO WAS IN VIOLATION OF BIBLICAL LAW at Waco???????????? Texas should secede in Honor of those Sunday school kids that the state god and fed god burned in hell on earth… Lets hear it from you Texans that carry silver bullets…. Texas , among many other states have had their butts burned and kicked… My Leader and King is King Jesus, who is your Leader and King ??? Meanwhile…
      Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      Charlie Freedom

      • http://none Charlie

        Frank Kahn,,,
        Here we go again ,,,you have NOT spent much , iF, any time in any Military ,,, My Drill Sergeant ,never had to tell Me to call him “Sergeant”,,,why? because it was understood Military Protocol from way back ………… OK,,. READ!!! The Bible,,, it says King Jesus came into the world a baby King ,,,.At The Cross He was noted as King of The Jews,,,The Bible is about “”War””,,,All Warriors have rank …OK!!! recruit!!! drop down !!! give Me 20 pushups !!! shut up and get back in line!!! Meanwhile…………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Sergeant Charlie Freedom

        • Frank Kahn

          Actually, Chuckles, I spent over 8 years serving my country in the military. I know from experience that what you said about “just knowing” is wrong. In the 70′s, the DI (drill instructor) was addressed as Sir not Sergeant, it was conditioning for you to always use the Sir as respect to your superiors. When I had left the military and then re-entered 10 years later, the DI was called Sergeant as a more accurate description of his rank.

          You appear to think that our military rank system has some relevance to Christianity. I think that taking a militaristic view of God is very disrespectful of you. You seem to think that all rulers are the head of their military establishment, and as such, God has soldiers to fight evil for him. Although this might be a faintly accurate analogy, it is wrong in its main concept of fighting, in the military sense. We fight evil by spreading the word of God, to shine the light of truth where the darkness of evil lives. I know that you are not currently capable of understanding your mistakes, you have no idea of how to share Gods Love with Gods words. You have much hatred and bigotry in your heart, this must be removed before you will ever be able to see the true light of Gods blessings.

          I also continue to note that you keep replying to yourself instead of addressing the actual issues.

          I know everything in my post that you replied to and you avoided addressing my questions to you concerning your bigoted statement that all blacks are cursed by God.

          Oh, by the way, if there was a “Gods Military”, you would not out rank me by any reasonable measure regarding our standing with my God.

          1. If you want to argue this reply to my post not to yourself
          2. If you want to have a discussion, answer my question about the Negro’s

  • Glen

    Historically speaking, we have long lived with this delusion that we are one people. The melting pot argument has been discussed in recent times by historians and political scientists as more of a stew where each group has largely held onto their original characteristics. For this reason we see ethnic groups congregating together with little change from generation to generation. We are actually many peoples with differing ideas but unified by common interests such as freedom, independence (somewhat), and economic necessity. Now that the independence has been shown as a delusion, the economy is probably shattering, and true freedom is illusory, we should redefine the nature of our union. I suspect we will ultimately splinter and politically separate. Perhaps it it time to initiate a gradual movement which could be based on the 2012 election map. If you are conservative or freedom-minded with the will to exist on your own labors and not on what someone is willing to give you through no merit of your own, perhaps you should consider relocating to a red state. At the same time, those who believe otherwise should be encouraged to relocate from the red state to a blue state. We should not force a disunion along the lines that the South attempted 151 years ago – please note that it failed. Rather, when the economy shatters, and the people have little will left to remain united, then new nations can be formed that are more based on true similarity than on false notions of any common American ideals. I see about 3 or 4 new countries that may result – the Northeast, the more agrarian south/west, and the west coast. Until then, join the Conservative Party @ http://www.conservativepartyusa.org/home/ so that you stand for something true.

    • mark

      Another crackpot pipe dream. It is amazing how many people on this site are totally disconnected from reality. 34,000 out of 27,000,0000 Texans sign some crazy petition and suddenly they think you have a mandate to secede. This is one one thousandth of a percentage point of the Texan population, an infinitesimal minority. Like one American out of every 100,000 claiming we should become a Muslim nation and bingo, we’re a Muslim nation! That’s all it takes to start a landslide, one crackpot out of 100,000 sane people and the other 99,999 people simply say, you’re right, we surrender all our rights to you and all our guns and American flags to you, you win! You can now take over, we give up! After all you are one crazy guy and all we are are 99,999 rational human beings. What deep paranoid psychosis to believe such a fantasy could come true!

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Unkind of you, Mark, to call it “paranoid psychosis”. That is a truly serious mental disorder, and although you might feel that it’s appropriate, the research shows that these folks fall within what is called the “normal” range (believe it or not). Their fringe-of-normal rantings ARE fantasies—that’s what motivated reasoners who are too left-brained do—reject and even fight against reality, and live in a fantasy world that makes them feel good instead Too bad we let them vote. (I for one would be more than glad to see them signing petitions rather than voting).

      • Steve E

        I bet King George said the same thing about the Founding Fathers.

      • http://none Charlie

        Mark,,,
        I called Jack Dung Louie, and he said your numbers mean that George Washington was way outnumbered and “We” won… Do you understand what “Guerrilla Warfare”is ? and what may appear to be leaderless aggression ? Well it reads as you don’t know Jack…
        Now for Paranoia , My experience tells Me IF an American white male is NOT Paranoid?
        THEN,,,he’s a functional psychotic working for the Devil and without enough brain power to read The Bible because even the Devil knows Scripture,AND, King Jesus said “be not
        deceived “at Luke 21:8… SO,,,one has to be Paranoid NOT to be deceived….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Frank Kahn

          I had to check the full definition of paranoid to see if you were right or blowing smoke out your backside again.

          Well, according to the definition, you are indeed paranoid, not a good thing by the way.

          As to your assertion that those of us WHITE MALES (not sure what color and gender have to do with it) either being paranoid or a psychotic working for the Devil, well there you go smoking from your back side.

          Jesus never said we should be paranoid, nor do you need to be paranoid to be vigilant if you know the truth.

      • http://none Charlie

        Frank Kahn,,,
        Watch your disrespect ! that’s King Jesus, that did not use every modern word in The Modern Dictionaries ,,,most , on this site use Okey English and sometimes a little Arkey English…For example the word “Race” is not used in The Bible, but, the “Kind” word means race some times .. Edomite is also a race, so is a Israelite …. BUt the Edomites are heavily bastardized and heavily “Cursed” … The only other race that is cursed as badly as the Edomites is the Negros ,,.it’s in The Book ,but,you don’t read or write except in PhD style………… Meanwhile……………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Day-Gettysburg-Lisa-Phillips/dp/1432710281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352934187&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+day+gettysburg Lisa C. Phillips

          I cannot find Mark’s comment, but:
          First, to secede from the federal union on their own individuals must leave the US and renounce their citizenship, a very complicated and expensive process. Second, the legal way for states to withdraw is individually, state-by-state after conducting a state secession convention very much like a state constitutional convention on 10th Amendment issues.

          Most of the individual states originally joined the union through this process and it is how individual states must lawfully leave the union. This is the same method followed by the individual Confederate States of America when they withdrew one by one following the election of Abraham Lincoln.

          The right of democratic state-by-state secession did not die at the point of a bayonet at Appomattox Court House in 1865 after Lincoln’s invasion killed 600,000 Americans. The growing support for peaceful devolution of government powers and services to regions and local jurisdictions to allow citizens to control the power of politicians and government is a positive advancement for the 21st century. In addition, the right of devolution of states, geographic regions and groups around the world promotes government competition and freedom.

          I believe legal state secession from the Washington Empire just might become the only way for American citizens to escape the disastrous consequences of the coming global run to liquidate holdings of Washington Treasury obligations and the dollar. Breaking free of the false chains that threaten our economic future from the likely Washington debt/dollar collapse might be our last chance to safeguard our financial security and liberty from the hyperinflation and crushing new tax increases to be forced on this and future generations from the bailouts and national debt.

        • Frank Kahn

          As always, you fail to identify what post you are complaining about. I have to just take your inane remarks at face value and refute them.

          Jesus is Christ. There is no mandate in the Bible to call him King Jesus, so not calling him King would not be disrespectful.

          The word kind can mean many things but it cannot and never has meant a differentiation of race. There is a single race of man, all descended from the original humans Adam and Eve. There are minor differences in some ways the human race have developed in appearances but this does not give them separate races. That might be why you dont see the word race in the Bible.

          You claim that a tribe of Israel is a race of humans. This is not true since there is only one race and that IS humans.

          Your attempt at defining different forms of English is laughable. We dont speak English anyway. Yes there is a vast difference in PHD American English, and if you have my posts evaluated by an English professor they will tell you that I am far from using Popper English in my sentences.

          Now we get down to your most ignorant statement.

          “King Jesus, that did not use every modern word in The Modern Dictionaries”, the word “that” does not belong in that sentence, but that is not my point.

          Duh, Jesus did not use words that were not even invented yet? He did not speak in a language that would be created almost 2,000 years later? If you meant that the ancient language he used did not have a word that is the equivalent of some modern terms, I might say you have a good point. To say that Jesus did not use all modern words in our dictionary when he was speaking his era’s English is asinine.

          Now to the supposed interpretation you have of the Bible that says blacks are cursed by God. I met someone, somewhere, sometime that claimed that Blacks (Negros) were the descendants of Cain and were cursed by God for killing his brother so God turned them all Black as a punishment. I looked, and tried to find the passage in the Bible that said this and was unsuccessful. So, Chuckles, it is up to you to quote the part of the Bible that specifically states that all Negros are cursed. Simply giving book, chapter and verse is not acceptable.

    • Hey you

      Yes, Glen, you’re probably correct. “We” will probably separate from this welfare-warfare state. The “big-talkers” can’t stop what is a trend that is now becoming highly visible.

    • http://none Charlie

      Glen,,,
      As I told the state “Militia”,,,””If you ain’t Christian , I ain’t leading you ,AND, if you ain’t Christian , I ain’t following you!!!”””… So you comment is a off course regarding Real Law and secession ………..

    • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

      “Glen,”

      GOOD COMMENTS. MOST CAUCASIANS AND NEGROES STILL WORSHIP IN SAME-RACE CHURCHES. USUALLY, THE ONLY TIME YOU SEE CAUCASIANS AND NEGROES IN THE SAME CHURCH IS AT A COLLEAGUE’S FUNERAL.

  • Juanita Mitchell

    Why don’t these people just move to another country? I live in FL and I am not going any where (except maybe on a cruise). I didn’t sign a petition to secede and 25000 people are not going to make that decision for the other millions of us in FL. So move…I guarantee you..you will find that there is no better country in the world to live in than USA. I have visited several other countries and you think you have complaints now?

    • Patriot1776

      With the people of this nation giving obama another 4 years, unbridled by the need to campaign again, this nation will rapidly persue the level of any of the other third world nations. The division caused by this administration over the last 4 years will continue to worsen aided by the class warfare. Add to this the inability of the government to allow the economy to recover, raising taxes on the working people and growing the ranks of the unemployed and those on food stamps we have the recipe for disaster. Then add to it the majority of Americans (if you believe the election results to be close to accurate) that have their heads buried in the sand and believing the bile spewed forth from the almighty government and there is no hope to get on the right path in the next 4 years.

      Hopefully, 4 years from now we can make a change and head in the right direction for ALL Americans.

      • Ted Crawford

        The eternal optimist I see Patriot! Optimism is a laudable trait, however History and logic cry out for the answer to, “just what will be left to work with, after four more, this time unrestricted, years of this Administration”?

  • CB19

    Please answer the following: How is paying a UAW US Auto worker at the Big 3 going to make them more competitive against the Japanese companies that are producing better vehicles with non union labor? Isn’t it about a $30/hr less (comprehensive employee costs including taxes, benefits, dues, SS, Unemp, etc)? How can GM, Chrysler, Ford survive (without subsidies) if they have that immediate disadvantage? Should labor be able to dictate the fair wage a company pays an employee or should the marketplace? The high wage USA worker is desirable put it most be proportionate to the skill level. We can’t have UAW workers working the system for disability or riding the pine at the Hall and still getting paid. That model has proven to be disastrous along with the Legacy plans. Nobody can be “guaranteed” a job. It is up to that individual to show their merit constitutes them keeping their job and increasing their pay. Just cause in a utopian view it sounds good and will give the family more money doesn’t mean it is a sound economic model. We cannot force companies to manufacture here, we have to make it more attractive via tax policy and worker environments.

    If Company A has a choice to build their product in the US where there is a mandatory union agreement in their line of work and the business tax is higher than say a country like Mexico (for instance), why would they choose to build in a country with higher inherent costs to manufacturer their product? They need to compete on a world scale just like everyone else and protectionary tariffs or taxes will not help make their product more competitive. Thanks for your input.

    • Dave67

      Just to be clear, you are advocating that Americans make less money. Is that right? Accept for the wealthy of course… They can fleece the country for as much as they can steal right?

      • CB19

        No Dave67 – there is a segment of the populous that believes they are ENTITLED to high paying jobs – they demand it. Just cause it sounds socially superior to pay people a lot of money for low tech type jobs doesn’t mean it works in the real world of economics. Will we as a country thrive if we have policies that discourage companies from building here? We need to have an incentive for companies to invest here in the USA. The more jobs created the lower the unemployment. The lower the unemployment the better the wages get (by law of economics). I am saying we cannot FORCE companies to pay us more because we are AMERICANS and we need that money to “survive” and more accurately “spend”.

      • Dave67

        Really CB19? Who? They demand a job that pays enough to keep a roof over their heads and provides for their families… How elitist of them.

        You advocate lower wages for American workers… Pure and Simple.

        We need to move away from being a consumption based economy to a building economy again and we need to void all trade deals that are bad for American workers.

        The reality is today… most families need to have two people work to do the same thing that 1 person working was able from the 1950′s to the 1970′s because we had good paying jobs for more people. Now its all about profits for the wealthy and impressing wall street.

        You are clearly misguided in your right wing ideology.

      • Smilee

        CB19 says:
        November 13, 2012 at 9:12 am

        You the taxpayer, (assuming you make enough to pay taxes) are paying a part of their employees wages through the earned income credit which only goes to underpaid workers and that is not union workers they pay taxes and a portion of that goes to underpaid workers. Clinton said it is all about simple arithmetic, he was right a subject you seem to be seriously lacking in

      • eddie47d

        CB19 apparently is the one who wants us to be a third world nation with third world incomes. Except of coarse for the robber barons on Wall Street who make a killing just for showing up to work. Is America a special place for the working man in this world not if CB19 has his way.

    • Ted Crawford

      Isn’t it a wee bit Quixotic to attempt to explain Accountability and Personal Responsibility to an entitlement minion? Their whole philosophy is summed up by , “I exist! Therefore GIVE ME”!

      • Dave67

        Thats right Ted… Like the military, large US multi-national corporations, big agro, the oil companies… Gimme Gimme Gimme…

        Do conservatives engage in Personal responsibility? When do they do that? Who does that?

    • matforce

      There must be a balance. There’s always been tension between labor and management over wages. The balance has shifted in favor of the corporations now that the offshoring model initiated in the 60s when our garment, textile, and shoe industries left for S. America, then in the 70s our toy, auido (transistor), TV, and finally steel left for Japan, but in 2001, when China joined the WTO, even our jobs in Mexico left for SE Asia. Your existensial justifications for how our corporations have abandoned the security and freedoms offered by the USA does nothing to pose a viable argument for how the USA will survive, other than capitulating to the upper hand held right now by the Plutocrats, who’ve lobbied incessantly for these favors in our legislature.
      You won’t see the Germans strike a sweet deal with their Plutocrats and screw over their commoners like our elected officials have done here. They level a 19% tariff on imports (except for some ag and raw materials) to protect their vital manufacturing and industrial base and keep wages high (Germany’s manufacturers are largely union). They also add a VAT (value assessed tax) on imports, a type of graduated tax depending on the amount of work (production/assembly/manufacture) was done on a product in and outside of Germany. We don’t do that here. This high wage allows for an increase in disposable income that gets poured back into their retail markets to boost profits, revenue and GDP.
      Some will say that’s protectionism, or nationalism! Others will say that would drive up the cost of products so the poor would be worse off…
      I say: the trade-off is that right now, our Plutocratic “multinational” corporations are manufacturing cheap, sweatshop crap at pennies on the dollar, shipping it here in Mersks that carry over 2 million train car sized boxes they call (containers) flooding our docks and then ship it to WalMart where it is marketed just under what Made In USA can market it for allowing our Plutocratic system to realize the largest profit margin possible anyway. Over the past 10 years, we have experience and avg. of $600 BILLION in trade deficits, a gradual but sure decline in our standard of living due to the loss of jobs and the downward pressure felt here in the USA to compete, and a resultant GDP that is headed toward insolvency.
      I liken this dependency to the analogy of a drug addict who is dependent on this profit margin to prevent withdrawal symptoms. With our corporations making record gains, and Wall Street becoming dependent as well on these derivatives, they can’t “just say no.” anymore to these vast profit margins gained from sweatshops abroad. USA industry, R&D, Education, NASA, Federal Bonds used to be the best game on the Street. No more. Now even our pensions, 401Ks, our stoctk market gains have all become dependent on this cheap sweatshop, foreign exchange. if the Plutocrats, whose profit margins are gigantic (sitting on $Trillions), want continued access to the dwindling, but still potent USA market before it sounds its death rattle, I think we should begin to take steps to bolster our middle class with jobs, even if it means the Plutocrats will need to take a hit on their profit margin. They must be convinced that they have an interest in promoting the middle class, and that we mean business but getting the message to our legislators that the message they should be sending to the Plutocrats is, “Deal’s off!”
      Instead of fighting to get our jobs back for the middle class, and in turn, provide a decent wage for our middle class, we continue to become more and more dependent on slave labor abroad through the profit margins our “multinationals” are realizing there.
      How does Germany do it? They’re one of the only nations in the URO that has its house in relative order… Of course they’re pusing “austerity” on everyone else in the URO, which is not making them a favorite there

      • http://n/a Wayne

        Matforce you seem to know what you are talking about and I love the way you can express it. We have a lot of problems in this country and the administration that is in control now is just digging our problems deeper.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      With all this talk of secession, why don’t we regress even further and go back to slavery? That would really make American products competitive, just as the low wages of the slaves made cotton so profitable for the plutocrats who owned the slaves and got rich off them. The plutocrats of today are trying to reestablish a modern slavery—a type of corporate feudalism in which no worker has the right to stand up and try to better himself by joining a union. The bosses will tell the worker how it will be and the worker will be grateful for the crumbs that fall off the boss’s table. Wake up, 99%.

      • Smilee

        BRAVO!!!

      • http://n/a Wayne

        I agree with you except for the amount of slack you give the Unions. The Unions were once a good organization when they were only for the workers rights but today they have been taken over by the Politicians and or Thugs. The Union causes a division between Employer and Workers just like the Democrats/Communist are causing the division of the American People to day. I know from experience of 25 years being a union member and seeing how it really is. It is hard to explain and I don’t mean this to be a total explanation but the unions are not like the once were. They have hurt the overall progress of our nation in my opinion.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Your points may have some validity, Wayne, but the fact is that the plutocracy and the corporate feudalists are succeeding in their efforts to destroy the unions. What’s the decline?—-from around 30% to less than 10% of workers now belong to unions? Makes the point of whether unions do bad things or not kind of irrelevant when they are becoming less and less of a factor in society.

        I was a member of an education association negotiating team back in the 60′s—sat across the table from school board members whose day jobs were on Wall Street. I shudder to think of what our overlords would have done to us if they didn’t have to negotiate and just had gotten their way. They probably would have made US pay THEM for the privilege of working for them.

    • Flashy

      CB…you should ask how the European automakers pay their workers more.

      What a narrow simplistic mind you have….

  • http://facebook vernon

    failing to up hold the const. is treason. they did take a oath of office didn’t they?

    • Smilee

      How do you explain that every case brought before the SC has been decided in Obama’s favor/ He is upholding the Constitution it is you who does not want it upheld because you do not seem to like our Constitution

  • Ted Crawford

    The only “Devastating Blow” you, and your Comrades in the Proletariat have struck is to youselfs, your Posterity and a once Great Nation! However, given that the term “Progressive Logic” is one of the Worlds ultimate oxymorons, it is beyond reason to believe that a prepubescent(intellectually at least) Obama Plebe , could comprehend that!

  • Doc Sarvis

    I see a lot of Red states on the list of those who want to secede. I also recall seeing how Red states tend to be the ones who gain the most from our Federal tax dollars while contributing relatively few of those dollars. This is the same sort of un-American trait as the birthers, 1%ers, and others who would rather cry about small fictitious issues than pitch in to help America heal.

    • Dave67

      Exactly Doc, its the conservative states that leach off of states like CA, IL, NY. They are the biggest whiners and immature victims that exist in this country… They like the services they get, they just hate to pay for any it.

      • Smilee

        And they prefer all this welfare over good paying union jobs in which they could take pride as they then would not need welfare if they were union

    • Steve E

      Isn’t this funny. If the Red state people want to secede , the Blue state people go crazy and forbid it to happen. I bet if the Blue states wanted to secede, the Red state people would just say “Go ahead, no problem.” That’s proof that the Red state people are more understanding and peaceful. And since some worry that the Red states get more Federal money, they won’t have to worry about it anymore. So what’s the problem, Blue state people?

      • eddie47d

        No problem we just love exposing your own insanity and your “what ifs”. We have no reason to succeed from this great nation and happen to love the United States of America. We all get upset when we lose an election or an important issue but some of us aren’t quitters!

      • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

        eddie47d says: We have no reason to [b]succeed[/b] from this great nation … [snip]

        I couldn’t have said it better myself.

        – Smoov

  • Dave67

    I say give the right wing morons TX and call it a day. They can build their walls, institute Christianity as the national religion formally and make everyone own a gun. They can call it Jesusgunscapitalismland.

    The rest of us can get back to making America a more perfect union.

    • rhcrest

      Sounds good to me!

    • Right Brain Thinker

      LMAO Right on! Reminds me of a Pogo-ism. “We have met the enemy and he is them”.

    • Steve E

      That’s a great idea Dave. Now only if more people would come to that understanding. You can come down and use our Texas internet when the USA shuts their internet down.

      • eddie47d

        What a dreamer Steve is (that’s okay) but the thing is will you really have freedom of the Internet? Will it be right wing 24/7 and strictly Christian indoctrination or will all ideas and religions be welcomed? What kind of censorship will you impose to keep Texas pure and its citizens in line?

      • Steve E

        The internet will be open to everyone eddy, even to 5 year olds, like you.

      • eddie47d

        That’s great Steve so then I can bank on that. There will be no censorship in the nation of Texas?

    • Frank Kahn

      I do not believe in religion running a nation. I do not believe that everyone should be required to own a gun. I dont believe that using your right brain is optimal. And the trait that these people are exhibiting is the survival FIGHT OR FLIGHT technique. This is neither right or left brain, it is central core instinct.

      We are not, by definition, radicals, we are traditionalist in actions and ideals.

      Joining Unions for inflated wages is not the answer to the economic problem, it is the cause.

      Wages shrinking is not the cause of families needing two bread winners to survive, it is inflation.

      Your magnanimous statement of giving us Texas is absurd. First you dont rule the movement, and second we want more. You want to see what happens if we split this nation into producers and takers? Lets divide it RED and BLUE. We in the RED states will build ourselves up with true capitalism, without unions, and let you BLUE states continue with your CRONY CAPITALISM. We will let the market set the prices for our goods and services. We will not buy your over inflated merchandise. Oh and by the way, we will not sell you our food, take a look at the middle of the country that is RED, it has been called the bread basket of the nation. And because our cost of living is so much lower, we will work for reasonable wages, which might just bring some of your manufacturing companies into our states. I am also struggling with the energy part of the equation, where did they say all the oil and natural gas wells are in this country?

      Now, that is rational thinking not radical. It is also more rational to choose flight over fight when the outcome of the fight is in question.

      Cry baby, spoiled brat, I always want my way? Maybe that is true, but I think it is as true if not more true about the BLUE states. I dont think throwing that around is conducive to a rational discussion.

      I have addressed at least three of you, chest thumping, Obama followers in this post. I am not a conservative, so when I say we, I mean those of us that are fed up with the current policies of our federal government (and that includes both Dem and Rep).

      • http://none Charlie

        Frank Kahn,,,
        Be careful, you’re exposing your ignorance of Unions , how many have you ever worked for or with??? If ,none, you’re exposing your Edomitism … Meanwhile……….
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Frank Kahn

          Edomites is not the curse of the world or the basis for lies and exaggerations. Ignorance is not necessarily from not having personal experience. An intelligent person can fathom the problems caused by unfettered union interference in capitalism. They are evil in relationship to capitalism. They are as bad or worse than government involvement. And my statement is factual and logically sound, which makes your statement a case of ignorance

      • http://none Charlie

        Frank Kahn ,,,
        When Texas secedes , they may discriminate against Edomites ,,, but,,,you will fit right in with the Hollywood Jews,,,except for LA smog, the weather better… If worse comes to worse , we can find you a FEMA camp outside of Texas, and we’ll try to find you a Jesus freak from Smogville as neighbor …. As good will toward Texas you will have to wear Justin cowboy boots made in Mexico of cowhide from Texas cows, tee shirt and pants made in Mexico of Texas cotton,,,ya see Mexico is going to be sold to Texas for 10 cents an acre in Honor of the Alamo and give a few jobs to Jose and his family … Meanwhile…..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Frank Kahn

          Your attempt at sarcastic humor falls flat on deaf ears. It does not matter if something like you are prejudiced against Edomites, it does not affect me in the least. Your are what we were warned about in one of your famous quotes. I dont listen to your lies and deception for I will not be deceived. Find yourself a TRUE CHRISTIAN to guide you to true salvation before it is too late.

      • matforce

        Welcome to Kahn’s vision for the Divided States of Plutocracy, where we compete for jobs with China ($1.36/hr. avg. wage) and emulate the Chinese practices of slumping our 7 year olds who show no prospect for higher education in front of a buffing wheel for 7 cent/hr. with an eye loop, burnishing burrs off of #2 screws they’ll ship across town for use at the iPad factory, where USA labor, in competition for the more skilled jobs will receive $1.40/hr. 16 hrs./day, 7 days a weekd for the rest of their lives to assure those in the Red States that blind capitalism reigns supreme.

        • Frank Kahn

          Good to meet you matforce, I always enjoy hearing from witless liberals on this site.

          Since no basis was given, by you, for your assertion that my proposed economy would for some reason have underage sweat shops, I must assume it is somehow linked to the insane notion that UNIONS are the saviors of the workers of the world. And, you should not attempt to compare a true capitalistic economy with what China has. China does not, in any stretch of the imagination, have a free market economy. In fact, much of the Chinese workforce is union labor, and the labor unions are government ran. Also, child labor laws are not government interference in capitalism.

          Your attempt at extreme exaggeration of wages was laudable but misguided by your apparent ignorance of economic reality.

          It is a very ignorant and misguided idea that our workforce would have to compete with Chines labor. The only reason that this is somewhat true in the USA today is because of our governments policies.

          In the “New United States of The People of America” we will not accept foreign products to be sold unless they are produced in compliance with acceptable human rights considerations. We will regulate import taxation and fees to make those products comparable in price to products we produce.

          In effect, China will have to compete with our products and services.

          Now. to the stupidity of having to work impossibly long hours to make a livable wage.

          Since we dont have UNION thieves raping our industry, the cost of production is kept very low, with this so does the price of goods sold stay very low. Since it costs 1/100 of the price you pay to live, we can survive comfortably on 1/100th of the salary you need (exaggeration for effect).

          In a more reasonable cost of living to wages comparison lets take a middle class income of $150 K a year, or approximately $75 / hour in wages. Since our products are actually 1/10th the price of yours we only need $7.50 / hour wages ($15 K a year) to have the same quality of life that you have.

          Although some, liberals and UNION lackeys, might say that is impossible, I would direct you to the economy of the mid 70′s in this country.

          In 1977, I was making just $5 / hour in wages and I was able to buy new cars, house, a jet ski boat and had plenty of money for other recreational use.

          My first home was a two story 4 bedroom house with almost 1/3 acre of land, it cost me about $40K. You could buy a new muscle car for about $6K, I paid $5K for my ski boat. Hard to remember exactly the price of gas back then but it was way under $1 a gallon.

          Inflation is the problem with our economy today, everything is priced to high.

          Although there are many causes of inflation, like the printing of fiat money, greed in the form of UNION demands for HIGHER and HIGHER wages and benefits are also a cause.

          Government cannot legislate control of GREED, so it should never attempt to regulate it.

          If someone insists that they want more and more things, then they can get more and more jobs, not demand that they be paid more than they are worth at just one job.

          Plutocracy (which is what exists today in our government), can be avoided in part through sensible policies. It is the vigilance of the people that is required for this to work.

          First, taxation policies must be FAIR to all the people, no loopholes, no ridiculous exemptions and no tax breaks for political donations.

          Artificial price manipulation by companies must be prevented, by laws and penalties if necessary.

          Artificially inflating the value of a company (stock price manipulation) must be prevented. Your company is only worth the value of its assets (real not paper) both physical and in cash.

          I seem to run on a bit here, but describing a workable capitalistic economy is not a simple affair. It would take many days and way too much typing to give full details here. I just wanted to show you that, unlike your emotional and without real thought claim, this is a possibility that does not degenerate into some imagined (by liberals) living hell.

          Someone here said, you dont throw out the baby with the bath water, good idea but not relevant to the concept. It is more like this, You dont stay in the room with someone that has a highly contagious, deadly disease if you dont want to die with them.

      • http://none Charlie

        recruit Kahn!!! give Me 20 more pushups!!! shutup!!! and fallin!!! Meanwhile…………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Sergeant Charlie Freedom

        • Colonel Frank Kahn

          Answer the question about the Negros, Seargeant.

      • matforce

        I actually like some of your proposals for leveling the playing field with the sweatshop labor forces our Plutocrates (CEOs in executive suites deciding, with the blessing of their board of directors and stock holders, to use the outsourcing model begun in the 60s and 70s, which were tweeked and perfected since NAFTA & GATT (Uruguay version) (1994) and more recently the WTO (1999) were passed (see how they voted), with the approval of our legislatures even to the extent that loopholes were even written into the tax code that actually subsidizes the offshoring of our factories with tax dollars (incessantly lobbied for) to the tune of $30-40 BILLION/yr. to offset the liabilities of setting up shop on foreign soil. I emphasize: See how they voted. Then check out Bill S3816 for perspective on which party is advancing the move to “multinational” corporate monopoly.

        But aren’t your ideas for the “New” USA trade relations dependent on some form of government intervention in our international trade policies? So much for Free Enterprise and a pure, unfettered Capitalism where the prize goes to those who can produce a product of equal quality for less…

        I’m picking up on the fact that you don’t like labor Unions (understatement). Then it should come as no surprise to you that labor Unions have been decimated over the past 30 years, and their membership has dropped from 30% of the labor force to 10%. That, plus the downward pressure on wages here to compete for jobs with sweatshops has caused wages to become stagnant and decline, adding more people to the list of the “downward mobility” list, adding a record number of our middle class WORKERS (not freeloaders like the right would like to believe they are) who are slipping into the threshold of lower class and poverty. The American workforce has historically been very industrious in their pursuit of prosperity and the “American Dream.” Plus, small businesses that remain find themselves cutting costs to the bone to compete in this “global economy.” The following may not sit well with your world view, but you can check it for yourself:

        Real output in the (non-farm) business sector increased by 140% between 1980 and 2010. Real compensation per hour (includes wages, benefits, pensions, and insurance) increased by only 38% (granted: automation accounts for some of this). In the post WWII world, between 1947 and 1979, Americans shared equally in the increase in output that took place. In those 30 years, the income of the bottom 20% increased by 116% and the top 20% by 99%, and the three middle quintiles within that range.

        Then the world flipped! From 1980 to 2007 the rich took practically all of the increase in income. Over those decades, the bottom 20% got only a 15% increase, and the middle three quintiles got an average increase of about 25%. The top 20% received an income increase of 95% and the top 1% saw an increase of 261%. During the boom years of the middle 50s and 60s the nation’s wealthiest 10% received 33% of the nation’s personal income; by 2007, they received 50%.

        I don’t blame BIG BAD GOVERNMENT (although one party votes in favor for corporate domination more than the other) for this trend, I blame the GREED of the elite who figured out how to redistribute the wealth not to the poor (socialism), but upward to the already wealthy, and coupled with the way BIG $$$ has been equated to power and influence in our halls of Congress, it may be more apt to say we are moving toward Plutocracy.

        • Frank Kahn

          What you say is partially correct, and grossly wrong.

          In your last paragraph you described something, then made a false statement. What you described IS PLUTOCRACY, so we are not moving towards it, it has been here for a long time. As long as BIG MONEY can influence government policies through campaign contributions and lobbying we will have a plutocracy. Actually, a large number of our leaders are BIG MONEY, some are even in the 1% that everyone talks about.

          I both agree and disagree with your assessment of how the redistribution of wealth, towards the top, was achieved. There are many ways they have done this but, it all boils down to plutocracy with the shaping of government policies to enable larger profits.

          In this you correctly named some of the destructive actions, like NAFTA, which shipped our nations industry overseas. I have not done it yet, but I think if you plot the curves of loss of industry here, the increase of profit / cost ratio and the reduction of personal income / wealth, you will see a very close relationship between them and the passage of the new “free trade” agreements.

          Pointing fingers at which administration is more culpable in these policies is pointless. Both parties embrace them because of the influence of BIG MONEY.

          Also, by making these policies (which give an unfair advantage to overseas manufacturing) of FREE TRADE, our government has interfered with the FREE MARKET in this country.

          While your statement that government regulations on international trade interferes with free enterprise (globally), it does not interfere with local free markets.

          One of the big problems with our economy is the trade deficit with China. We buy everything they make and they mainly buy raw materials from us to make the stuff we buy from them.

          We (our government) made it profitable for our industry to move their manufacturing (jobs) to other countries. This created a loss of revenue (taxes) for our government. With the lax, free trade agreements, policies for imports, our government did not gain any revenue (import taxes and tariffs) from the foreign countries. This, in turn, caused a larger budget deficit, which in turn has fostered the printing of fiat money to prop up the economy. That fiat money causes inflation which causes the net worth of the citizens, and their standard of living to drop.

          When you start bringing the world economy into the mix of our capitalism, you have a whole new, and very complex set of problems. In this respect you have to define what is fair in the free enterprise structure. We do not have a free market, our government interferes with it in many ways here in this country. If we want actual free enterprise (globally) then, either the other countries have to have the same rules and restrictions as we do, or we have to have less rules and restrictions on our economy. Products that are produced in sweat shops that employ slave labor should be banned from our country because they are produced by a system of civil rights violations. This means that other countries would have to enact laws and policies that mirror our own. That is called a form of tyranny. We dont have the right to dictate laws for other countries, we can only refuse to do business with them if they violate our principles.

          Now, to the unions issue. I am not totally sure if you were attempting to make a correlation with the decline (in numbers) of unions and the decline of personal wealth in the country. And that greater Union membership would improve the situation.

          If you were, that would be a fallacious assumption. While there is a cause and effect relationship with companies improving their bottom line, it is not necessarily a direct relationship. It would, in fact, be just the opposite. Since Unions are for bigger compensation for workers, they are anathema to business profits. More Union demands for higher wages here would only bolster the corporations need (desire) to send jobs to other countries. In this case, I think that Unions threatening to strike, if their demands are not met, is the equivalent of putting a gun to your own head to try and force someone to go along with you. The corporations say “go ahead and shoot yourself” it wont hurt us, it will only hurt you.

      • matforce

        Don’t know if you noticed my post (above) in response to CB19, but I brought up Germany’s strategies to address the sweatshop situation. I’ll copy and paste:

        You won’t see the Germans strike a sweet deal with their Plutocrats and screw over their commoners like our elected officials have done here. They level a 19% tariff on imports (except for some ag and raw materials) to protect their vital manufacturing and industrial base and keep wages high (Germany’s manufacturers are largely union). They also add a VAT (value assessed tax) on imports, a type of graduated tax depending on the amount of work (production/assembly/manufacture) was done on a product in and outside of Germany. We don’t do that here. This high wage allows for an increase in disposable income that gets poured back into their retail markets to boost profits, revenue and GDP.

        There’s been talk from the conspiracists about a plot by the IMF and World Bank to redistribute the wealth through FTAs, fertile ground for some thoughtful review…

        • Frank Kahn

          The German’s import tariff and VAT is similar to my idea for balancing the cost of imported goods. I dont see the correlation with that and high wages though. I also object to your inserting the fact that their manufacturing workers are union. That is not valid in the line of taxation on imports.

          Since you keep pushing that line of thought, I must assume that you are just the opposite of me and you think that Union criminals are a good thing.

          I will, willingly, argue this subject. However, I will not allow any past history (more than 30 years ago) to be used in the argument, as most of those ideas about the good of Unions is archaic and therefor irrelevant to modern Unions.

      • matforce

        I agree that your views about leveling the playing field so that Made In USA doesn’t get sold out to sweat shops, etc. are similar to what Germany does.

        My alleged affinity for Labor Unions has everything to do with keeping a high wage and ample disposable income in the hands of the middle class consumer so that they, in turn, can boost retail sales and pump $$$ back into the economy. The typical middle class worker 200 million strong with a decent pay will likely collectively contribute the lion’s share to the federal, state and local treasuries directly from their paycheck in the form of payroll taxes to fund our government. Your typical commoner does not have the tax avoidance strategies at their disposal like our wealthy do, like long term capital gains, deferred stock options, tax deferred annuities, lines of credit established from one’s estate, creative ways of creating red ink (buying a baseball team, for example), and parking their wealth in offshore accounts, etc.

        Sorry, but I think it is naive to think that management will pay their labor force handsomely just because of some altruistic motivation, if there is a cost effective alternative. Henry Ford, was an exception; when asked why he paid his workers so well, he pointed out that if only the wealthy could afford his product, his sales would languish, but if all his factory workers could afford one, he’d have a booming market, etc.

        If you take this theme (absent Ford’s wisdom) to its end results, in a free market, where the Plutocrats and their BIG $$$ are calling the shots, and a larger short term profit margin beckons, my fear is that, in time, we’ll all be competing for jobs with sweatshop wages and conditions (China’s avg. wage = $1.36/hr.), and unless you’re a plutocrat, how would you make out on $35/wk. tops?

        Somehow, we have to convince our lawmakers that they have to convince the Plutocrats that they have a vested interest in promoting the vitality of a thriving USA middle class in order to revive the economic dynamism of the USA economy. Otherwise, the freedoms and security our nation has to offer those corporations who benefit from these advantages that come with having a USA address are in jeopardy. But why should they care if their bottom line is all that matters, as long as they can fleece our still potent, but dwindling middle class for all they’re worth with cheap foreign crap? Unless their intent is eventually to cultivate, by sharing our industrial models, patents, and technology, a new middle class 2 billion strong in China. In that case, wouldn’t you consider our Plutocrats we’ve given so much favor over the past 30 years to be engaged in the vilest form of economic treason?

        • Frank Kahn

          You are arguing apples to oranges there. Unions cannot fight a plutocracy. You have to eliminate, or in my case prevent the plutocracy. Without plutocracy, the unions would be worthless and harmful to a free market economy.

          It is your term handsomely that is troublesome. I expect workers to be paid a reasonable wage, not lavish or extravagant. They should be paid in relation to the value they give to the company, no more and no less. It is this rule that Unions violate consistently.

          And, no, I do not think that altruism is a part of a companies decision to pay a fair wage. It is market factors that do this. If you dont pay your workers a fair wage they will find a company that does. If you have a fast turnaround of trained workers (the cost of which you pay) then you are losing profit by not paying them enough to keep them.

          The current situation in this country is not just the Union’s demanding unreasonably high wages, it is also the plutocracy and its policies that reward large corporations for unethical practices. But, the Unions can not and do not help the overall health of the economy.

          And, even with unions, we will still have to compete with China the way we do now, until government policies change.

      • matforce

        It seems that we agree on much. Frank, where is the concerted effort to press congress to push for this bold policy change? The media won’t touch this topic. Neither party wants to address it… Strange

        • Frank Kahn

          Well, I risk my reputation with getting labeled as a conspiracy theorist but, you is barkin up the wrong tree there.

          If we make a few assumptions, it all fits into place.

          First off, though, you have to consider who owns the media. If it is, in fact, owned by the 1% or as some say the elite bankers, then why would they sound an alarm? You dont usually call the police to report that you are robbing a bank. If you look at the current policies of the media, you will see that they not only dont point out the problem, they actually back policies that are a part of the problem.

          I have heard, and I will find the source if you want, that Obama is just the current member of a long line of presidential puppets that push these policies at us as some form of way to save us from what the policies are actually causing. I have to find the source to remember all three of the organizations that are in this effort, but I do remember the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderburg (spelling?) group, the third is a three initial group.

          Then there is the legislature. Once again, why would they sound an alarm when they are getting rich from these policies. I have read articles about ways that Congressmen use insider information to get rich trading stocks. They can manipulate stock prices with policies and regulations. They know when a new one will hurt a certain sector of business and can sell stocks of those companies without actually owning the stock, then buy it after it tanks. I think it is called short selling the stocks. Likewise, if they know of a new massive government contract being awarded to a certain company they can buy stocks for that company before the announcement. And many of them are very rich, and use wall street investing to get wealthier. You think, maybe, they like the low capital gains taxes?

          The Fed (Federal Reserve Bank) is a part of the deal. It is privately owned and operates with impunity when it comes to fiscal matters. It actually dictates the monetary policies of our country. But it is small potatoes compared to the new World Bank that is being marketed as a solution to the economic woes.

          Yes, it should be strange that the media is not clamoring for something to be done. But that assumes that the media is on our side.

      • matforce

        Good talking to ya, Frank! Funny you’d mention conspiracy…

        Have you looked into the history of international banking? I used to follow the developmebnts of the secret societies, The Bilderbergers, Free Masons, etc. whose supposed connection to the Rothchilds of yore, have always been instrumental in the high level back room deals of the banking industries.
        Bretton Woods oversaw international trade a century ago. Then the role of international trade management was handed to NATO and Bretton Woods stepped behind the scenes. But NATO wasn’t a good fit for the fiduciary responsibilities of finance, and the IMF and World Bank emerged to take responsibility for the financial piece. (I haven’t looked into this for a while, so I may be painting with a broad brush)
        It stands to reason: If the IMF and World bank get a stippend for their role in regulating and overseeing the financial service of the international trade transactions (say they receive .0001%), if you are a Bilderberger, and have any influence in the course of world trade, wouldn’t you try to design so it benefits you?

        Let’s see…. Hmmm… Which nation in the world has the most economic vitality? It is, or was, of course, the USA. How do we get in on that prosperity, and turn it to our favor without having to enter into their investment industry and get in line to play by their rules? They are quite self-sufficient with their magnificent industrial sector reaching its tentacles into every niche imaginable, and they have a trade surplus from which they make even more profits on top of the gigantic gains they receive from their middle class consumer market at home.

        You probably, given my earlier rantings, have a pretty good idea where I’m going with this… My only questions are:

        1. Was it greed on the part of our CEOs, who saw a larger profit margin if they could continue to sell to the gigantic USA consumer market, but produce these consumer items in offshore sweatshops for pennies on the dollar?

        2. Was it a grand, behind closed doors, world-wide conspiracy by the Illuminati, to bring the world’s mightiest nation, the USA, which happened to be a somewhat unwieldy renegade with ideas of its own about sovereignty and freedom, to a more humble terra firma?

        3. Have our elected officials from both parties, one an avowed supporter of free enterprise and the advancement of the corporate entity, the other a bleeding heart for the commoner with their hand in the cookie jar, willingly and knowingly complicit in this conspiracy? Troubling…

        • Frank Kahn

          I am not sure I can identify the actual source of the situation, Illuminati or whoever but I am fairly certain that it is not the CEO’S or CFO’S of the corporations that are driving the decisions. It is obviously an effort to do two things, 1. consolidate all the wealth (and with it power) of the world 2. create a debt state in the world, where everyone owes them everything, including land, water and any other form of natural resources.

      • matforce

        I’m obviously not as willing to allow our elite to slip of the hook of culpability as you are. That it is a win-win situation for our CEOs, their stock holders and Wall Street with its financial institutions, hedge fund managers, and even the small time investment firms on one hand, and the “Illuminati” (as they’ve been called since antiquity), straddling the globe, pulling the strings of international influence, money, and power (where, ostensibly, with a nod of the head, nations fall), the fleecing of the USA’s vast wealth would bode well for both unless they were fettered by some silly, mundane notions like ethics, patriotism, or jurisrpudence. If, indeed, Trillions in capital flow from the Grand USA into the pockets of “multinational” corporations and all those down stream in the money making tree, while at the same time, the USA is brought to the point of vulnerability of losing their sovereignty so that they fall in line with the “New World Order,” you have one hell of a cracker jack solution where everyone makes out… except for ______________ youi fill in the blank.

        History will not be kind to the Plutocrats who perpetrated this sell-out for filthy lucre, but it will be less kind to our legislators, bought and paid for, who allowed this to happen on their watch!

        • Frank Kahn

          I am unable to see what part of my posts gives the impression that I want the elite to get off Scott free. I did not use the word Illuminati as the name of those responsible because I am not sure what name is most relevant.

          I take offense at you calling my idea “cracker jack” since that implies that is it a cheap, worthless plan.

          If you will address these two issues, I will be happy to answer the fill in the blank question.

  • roger

    which bastards exactly did you “slap down”? troll

    • Smilee

      Most of them writing on here!!!!!!!

      • sam1966

        What are you talking about smelly? I and other patriot spank your backside all the time. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

        “What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”

        George Washington
        Speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs
        May 12, 1779

  • rhcrest

    It is unrealistic to expect a country as large and as diversified as the US to stay together permanently. Things change throughout history and the US breaking apart is really a natural progression of things. We are no longer one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. We have become a freak show and some of us no longer wish to live among the freaks or be ruled by their crazy ideas.

    • Smilee

      You been looking in you mirror too long!!!!!!!!!

      • sam1966

        This is what happens when less intelligent beings, likle smelly, believe in having multiculturalism in this country, not going just by the American way. Obama bin Laden has sown the wind and is now wreaping the whirlwind. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

        “The fool has said there is no God within his own heart.”

        Psalms 14:1

  • Euell Stallings

    Just look at the election map, we have two country’s now one red and one blue, the majority of the people in blue states want to be taken care of by big brother government and the majority in red states want more freedom and liberty from the government. Succession just tells the current government we do not want their socialist programs or interference in our lives….we don’t need it, we will take care of our selves. Let’s see how well the socialist government can take care of the dependent masses when the workers move to Texas, as a new country, and stop being robbed to support the socialist states of America. Count me and my family in….where do I sign.

    • Doc Sarvis

      The map you are referring to is the map of how the electoral votes went to each candidate. The actual map of the United States is dominated by various shades of purple.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        IT IS PURPLE FOR THOSE UNDER FORTY.

    • mark

      Yes but with secession (not succession, can’ t anyone spell the term correctly?), the Southern states would lose all their U.S. military bases, all their U.S. defense plants, and much of their factories built with northern investments and U.S. federal government tax subsidies. For every dollar Southern States pay in federal taxes, they get about $1.42 in federal benefits. This would, of course, all end.

      But whatever you want to speculate about, this has already been decided. The Union victory in 1865 established the supremacy of the federal government over the states and the illegitimacy of any individual state’s right to secede. Deeds do matter. The North overwhelmingly defeated and occupied the South during the CivIl War. The Confederacy lost. Many on this site have enormous admiration for the racial ideas of Adolf Hitler as they illustrate in post after post day after day (Thus their disgust with a “racial inferiror” currently in the Oval Office). But Hitler and his Nazi regime were overwhelmingly defeated in May 1945 and their reign of terror was estinguished forever from the earth. Such is the fate of virtually all racist regimes ( South Afriica’s could be included here in a more peaceful fashion), including that of the Southern Confederacy. What a victory it was for Mankind when that monsrous, racist state went down to crushing and humiliating defeat in April 1865. Robert E. Lee summed it up best when he said it was the Will of God.

      • http://none Charlie

        Mark,,,
        The Confederates let their emotions fire off a round and that started the so called Civil War with hardware but when gunpowder and hardware run very short , what then ? that’s what General Lee did ,,,retreat into opossum submission and hope for the best peace treaty one can get BECAUSE,,, “Truth’s” beautiful head will popup later in the form of Guerrilla warfare,,, You see? the Confederates were and still are fighting for “Truth”, Biblical Law ,,,BUT,,, IF,,,? the wrongs don’t know what right is?? … Who has proven any law to be more perfect than God’s Law? What Law Case was / is more perfect than the case King Jesus prosecuted at John 8:4???…Be careful heathens,,,most of you are not even qualified to hold a light for The King’s Men… Meanwhile………..
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Frank Kahn

          And you are no more qualified than those you call heathens.

      • http://none Charlie

        Frankie boy,,,
        We forgot to say , the South will rise again, because it was / is right AND,,, the Confederate Flag is one of the most Christian designed flags in the world … Any one got a Dixie music web site handy,,,bring on……….. Meanwhile…………
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

        • Frank Kahn

          WE? You got a mouse in your pocket?

          Statement not supportable by reason or fact. The confederate flag has no Christian significance at all.

          And your quoting about racism by Jesus is out of context.

  • roger

    why would any state “petition for permission” to secede when they already have the power to shut down the feds? it’s called the 10th amendment, maybe ya’ll should read it….

    • Right Brain Thinker

      The tenth Amendment is the last of the Bill of Rights and dates back to 1789, if memory serves. Why did the CSA start the Civil War if they had the 10th. to “save” them from the feds?

      • http://none Charlie

        Right Brain Thinker?
        What is “”Contract Law””???,,, When the Confederates states walked out of “Congress”
        The “Contract” was null and void ,,.UNTIL “they” reconvened … The Confederates DID secede BY walking out of The Contract,,,BUT,,,The Confederates committed an ACT of WAR, that gave the Yankees a good reason to fight back and the rest is history…
        The Constitution ,,,the contract,,,the 10th ,,,DID NOT HAVE any effect at that time….BECAUSE,,,IT had been set aside until further notice……………..
        That’s why Bible Law is so critical to America ,,,IT cannot be set aside ,,,IT cannot be voted out ,,,King Jesus IS The Big Boss,,,He Ain’t going away , get use to it ! deal with IT ,,,BECAUSE,,, at some point in time ,you will have no other option … Meanwhile…
        Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

        Charlie Freedom

    • Smilee

      You do not understand the tenth amendment, it only gives power to the states if congress and/or the feds are not given that power, they are superseded by the feds. The civil war nailed that down once and for all, it is now settled law.

  • Harry Seemans

    Question to TimL what do you think this contry stands for?

  • Elda

    This is very sly. Obama has his own site to get a list of people that don’t support him and cause division at the same time. A country divided is much easier to dismantle and he is doing it right before our eyes.

    • Smilee

      YOUR BLIND!!!!

  • Doc Sarvis

    This is just another of the Conservative’s effort to attack the centrist President and the vast majority of Americans. Brought to you by those who failed to defeat President Obama by dreaming up other false stories. These folks are afraid of the work of improving our great country.

    • rhcrest

      Obama is a centrist? Wow can i have some of what you’re smoking? I want to be just as delusional as you are.

      • Dave67

        What is extreme leftist about Obama? Please be specific.

      • rhcrest

        DSave 67 i replied to your question about what about obama is not centrist down below. It did not show up here for some reason. For you to even be asking that question shows how far apart we are in our thinking. We have irreconcilable differences.

      • Dave67

        Lets deal with your BS line by line…

        How about shutting down our oil production through moratoriums and then giving billions to Brazil so they can drill?

        That is a lie… there was a moratorium after the oil spill which was lifted over a year ago. We are not pulling more oil out f the ground than we have in recent history

        How about his Nazi like NDAA and the TSA?

        I have issues about the NDAA but the TSA is Bush’s baby…

        How about dismantiling our national defense?

        Dismantling? We spend 700B a year in defense… China is next in spending with 300B. So please… leave your corp welfare at the door.

        How about him allowing drones on US soil to spy on citizens?

        BS, pure BS

        How about him siding with the President of Mexico in the US Chamber against this country?

        On what???

        How about him nationalizing GM?

        The alternative is to allow GM to go bankrupt and all the company’s that supply GM to go under as well which would mean higher unemployment and a severe hit to the morale of this country. Is that a better solution in your mind?

        How about him suing the state of AZ which is literally getting invaded and is trying to protect itself.

        I live in AZ, here is the reality… Our Gov only cares about the private prison system and making money for her friends. Right now, more people are leaving due to the economy. Are you willing to pay $4 for a head of lettuce? That are the jobs illegals take.

        How about him forcing the Catholic Church to provide health insurance which includes birth control and abortion.

        The only people opposed to that are the draconian Catholic leadership. Catholic women welcome this.

        How about hitting businesses with truckloads of regulations so that they are literally giving up and closing down.

        Horsehockey… The economy hit the skids due to a lack of regulation, not too much. The Obama administration is trying to stop the abuse of the system that screwed this country.

      • rhcrest

        It’s only horse hockey in your eyes Dave. Like i said we see things totally differently. There is no more arguing. Don’t you ever know anyone who has gotten a divorce? There gets to be a point where the arguing is over because the two sides cannot see eye to eye so they realize they need to separate and divorce. What part of this don’t you understand? You will never convince me of your ideas in a million years. I see you people as the enemy plain and simple and will listen to nothing you have to say. You have zero credibility so you can argue until you are blue in the face and it won’t do you a bit of good. To me it would be like someone telling me i should listen to the Nazis if this was WWII. That is how i look at you people. SOcialism/ marxism/nazism – three peas in a pod.

      • rhcrest

        Oh and by the way i am a Catholic woman and i most certainly do not welcome the Catholic Church being forced to pay for the slaughter of the unborn and neither does any Catholic woman i know. Just more delusional thinking Dave. But keep smokin

      • Dave67

        Leave rhcrest….

        A survey from the Public Religion Research Institute, published on Tuesday, revealed that almost 60 percent of American Catholics agree with the idea of employers being forced to provide birth control measures.

        Thats a majority right? 60% Which includes men BTW.

        So rhcrest….. Leave….

        If you dislike America and the fact that it is changing and that scares you… leave.

        Nobody will miss you.

      • eddie47d

        Surprisingly many Catholics support all forms of birth control ,(wouldn’t have heard of that 50 years ago). I’ve known a few who support abortion rights and even women in the priesthood.

      • http://none Charlie

        Sorry ,,that’s a new crop of Texas tumble weed blended in with hemp ,,NOT available until after secession ……………..

    • CB19

      Centrist President? Puhleeeeze!

    • roger

      Doc, when will the improvments begin? Obuckwheat didn’t improve a damn thing in his first 4 years.

      • Dave67

        CB19, Roger is proving my racist comment above. But believe otherwise CB19… its those “other” people that are the racists… Not your side. Of course not.

        LOL Conservatism is a mental disease as proven by roger.

      • Doc Sarvis

        roger, I would not expect someone so blinded by racism could see the reality around him.

      • Dave67

        Of course this idiot will not look at Corp profit, we are adding jobs, not bleeding them or that the stock markets as improvements… Ending the Iraq war? Nothing… killiing OBL? Getting rid of the Libyan dictator at a fraction of the cost…. Streamlining business regulations, getting agencies like FEMA to work properly…

        All they have is hate…

        Sad… They should leave the country and start their own in Antarctica.

    • rhcrest

      How about wanting to take control of our health care for one. That is the first thing socialists have done throughout history to gain control of countries.I’m sorry but i don’t want the feral gov’t involved in my health care. How about shutting down our oil production through moratoriums and then giving billions to Brazil so they can drill? How about his Nazi like NDAA and the TSA? How about dismantiling our national defense? How about him allowing drones on US soil to spy on citizens? How about him siding with the President of Mexico in the US Chamber against this country? How about him nationalizing GM? How about him suing the state of AZ which is literally getting invaded and is trying to protect itself. How about him forcing the Catholic Church to provide health insurance which includes birth control and abortion. How about hitting businesses with truckloads of regulations so that they are literally giving up and closing down. And i am not going to get into an argument with you about these policies. The arguing is over. We do not see eye to eye and i like the other people who want to secede, no longer wish to argue with you or live in your wacky world with your wacky rules. I want a divorce from you left wing nut jobs. It is OVER. We are in a cold Civil War and if it becomes hot i would gladly fight you people to the death. I have never ever felt this way before in my life. I am a Republican but had no problem and was not upset when Clinton was our Potus. Was too young for Carter. I have always felt that people should live and let live until i realized within the last two years that you leftists want everyone do live under your rules and under your control. Well the hell with you people. I WANT A DIVORCE

      • Dave67

        Ok, the HC law mandates you get PRIVATE insurance if you can afford to… You do not have a right to be an undo burden on society. Do you get the concept of PRIVATE insurance? Does your brainwashing allow you to understand? Its the exact same thing as the Gov telling you to get car insurance if you drive a car.

        Geez…

      • rhcrest

        Negative. Obamacare is just the stepping stone to a one payer system which would be the gov’t. And no it is not the same thing as requiring that you buy car insurance. That is an old and outdated argument. You are not required to drive but if you do you have to buy car insurance unless you are an illegal alien then you don’t have to. You are required to buy health insurance just by virtue of being alive. Sorry but i repeat myself. We do not agree. I want a divorce. I am done with you crazy left wing nut jobs. We have irreconcilable differences. What part of that don’t you understand? I will not come around to your way of thinking ina million freaking years and vice versa. The conversation is over. either we get a divorce peacefully or we through a violent manner but our relationship is OVER

      • Doc Sarvis

        The Federal government does not control health care. It regulates it.

      • eddie47d

        Many countries like Sweden do well under a national healthcare plan and some are struggling. We have a private insurance industry deeply embedded under our government plan. Considering how much those private insurers have shafted the American people over the years maybe a single payer plan wouldn’t be so bad.

      • rhcrest

        Maybe the countries do well under socialized medicine but the people don’t! Just talk to people who live under it and they will tell you what a nightmare it is. You can have socialized medicine in your half of the country. The arguing is over.

      • Dave67

        Really rhcrest? You do not have to drive a car so thats not the same thing? You will let me know you stop breathing won’t you?. At that point, you won’t need to get insurance any longer.

      • rhcrest

        Now you are blabbering Dave and not making any sense at all. Take it easy on that stuff you’re smoking

      • Dave67

        rhcrest,

        You said you don’t have to drive a car (in most places, I beg to differ) so in the case of mandating medical insurance… Breathing is the car in the example so as long as you breathe… you must get medical insurance if you can afford it.

        You say its a Gov take over (that is a lie)… then you backtrack and say its one step away from a single payer (as if it is a bad thing)

        You can’t even keep the lies straight.

        Maybe you should look at the standard of living in countries like Sweden, The Netherlands, Norway, Germany before you go off half cocked and say it bad for people? In those countries there is greater upward mobility, greater life expectancy, better sense of family and a better standard of living.

        You sir are full of it.

      • http://personalliberty Maggie

        Thank you!

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Yes CB19, centrist seems to be accurate. Lots of writers have said that Nixon was more “left” than Obama. Even Reagan would be considered a centrist in this crazy world where the GOP has run screaming to the far right edge of the flat world they live in.

      • rhcrest

        Hence the point of seceeding. We don’t see eye to eye. We have irreconcilable differences and we want a DIVORCE

      • Dave67

        rhcrest…. LEAVE…. Buy a ticket to Somalia, China or Saudi Arabia and LEAVE.

        Its a free country… Get out if you hate it so much.

      • rhcrest

        Dave67, not i will not leave. It is you leftwing nutjobs who want to turn this country into a communist/socialist state from a Constitutional Republic therefore it is YOU who should leave. Please go to Cuba as they have they type of gov’t you are looking for.

      • Smilee

        You lost in the election, so it is you who should go, your in the minority for now

      • Dave67

        rhcrest… You have no idea what Socialism or Communism is… LEAVE… Your side is dying out… Do us all a favor and leave. You lost the election big time…

        You have nothing to support your BS, just more bumperstickers and sound bites…

        Leave the country. Here is where you go.

        If you hate Gov regulations on Commerce: Somalia is a great choice
        If you hate Unions and think workers getting paid minimally is a good idea: China
        If you want Gov based on religion: Saudi Arabia

        Your politics of exclusion, obstruction and division is not wanted any more.

        Leave.

      • eddie47d

        rhcrest: We want what is best from any country and what works best within our own country. Has nothing to do with Cuba but solid practical solutions to growing populations and possible limited resources.

      • rhcrest

        No we are not in the minority. you took the election by voting fraud. The country is evenly split. Half the country agrees with me. We take half the land you take the other half. DIVORCE. Oh and i absolutely understand what communism and socialism is. We can either do it peacefully or another way. You think we are just going to walk away and let you commies take over this country without a fight? You got another thing coming [comment has been edited]

      • eddie47d

        Calling someone a commie is the easy way out Rhcrest and means you have little argument left.

      • Dave67

        rhcrest,

        Your proof of the voter fraud is where?

    • Frank Kahn

      I would hardly call Obama a centrist or moderate president. I also will call you an out and out liar for the superlative you used. There was no VAST MAJORITY victory for Obama in this election. Popular votes (of eligible voters voting) were statistically spit 50 50 with Obama getting just 1% more than Romney. And if you add in the Independent voters he had less than that. The large difference in the electorate votes is deceptive, it is not indicative of the popular vote.

  • http://www.thefreedomtrainusa.com Freedom

    As of the time of this comment……36 states have petitions to succede filed. Some of these may also have filed, but have not reached the 150 signatures to show up on the website yet…

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petitions

    I have all of them listed on my facebook site…

    http://www.facebook.com/HaroldThiele.45

    • http://www.thefreedomtrainusa.com Freedom

      The number of states is now 47…

  • Dave67

    I just got an urgent poll from Bob Livingston asking should the GOP fight Obama or Give Obama everything he wants…

    This is the kind of B/W bs we get from conservatives…

    If Obama was a conservative… He would be crowing about how he now has political “capital” after the election and “intends to spend it” like a previous conservative moron president has said.

    This past election was a rejection of conservatism and obstruction. We want both sides to get together and compromise to help this country get back on track.

    If a few nuts on the conservative side which to leave the country… please do, your nuttiness will not be missed.

    • CB19

      We like the way our country was before you Progressive Marxists started implementing your Utopian policies. The goal in which everybody has a vested interest in the misery that results in what they desire.

      Thomas Jefferson said this “All the powers of gov’t, legislative, executive, and judiciary, result to the legislative body. The concentrating of these in the same hands is precisely the definition of despotic government. It will be no alleviation that these powers will be exercised by a plurality of hands, and not by a single one. One hundred and seventy three despots would surely be as oppressive as one… As little will it avail us that they are chosen by ourselves. An elective despotism was not the government we fought for…”

      • Dave67

        CB19, when was that? Can you give me a specific date? Was it before SS when elderly poverty was at 35% (today its at 7.9% thanks to SS)

        Give me specifics… Or are you like the rest of your conservative BSers talking out of your hind quarters yet again?

        Please do not use terms like Marxist, Communist or Socialist unless you know what they mean. You clearly don’t.

    • rhcrest

      It is you Marxists who should leave. You are the ones destroying our Constitutional Republic and tying to make us into a socialist/communist country. Why don’t YOU move to Cuba? Their form of gov’t is much more to your liking and hear it’s lovely. Don’t pay any attention to the people risking life and limb to get out. Just enjoy!

      • Smilee

        Hey Loser, you lost grow up and get over it!!!!!!!!!!!

      • rhcrest

        Hey loser,the Foudning Fathers didn’t see it that way and neither do we. There were many fools back then just like you who sided with the Queen and didn’t want independence although no official vote was ever taken. Glad the founding fathers didn’t listen. They were a small minority – only 3%. Half the country agrees with me. We are evenly split except for voting fraud.

      • eddie47d

        If we are evenly split then even more reason to compromise and demand a workable solution from Congress. They seem to be the stumbling block in bringing the two sides together. Its unfortunate that the mostly South still holds a grudge. Considering that the Serbs held their grudge for over 500 years and kept Yugoslavia in perpetual turmoil this outcome doesn’t look good. Too much false pride and old grudges can eat away at you and a nation.

      • http://personalliberty Maggie

        RH, I agree. Notice that when you are winning the argument, they have to lower themselves to infantile name-calling. I find it interesting that the “majority” was not heard when it applied to Obamacare, some say 66% were against it. What people think of as “free health care” is anything but. We will all be paying for something that we do not need or want. As to the Socialist/communist comments, if they read any of his books, they would learn what is really going on here. But, it is much more exciting to go along, screaming that “they” won! I am a realist, we all lost.

    • Frank Kahn

      You are marginally correct in your assessment of the poll. However, both questions are slanted to achieve the goal intended. I see it as more a teaching point on Obama policies. He has always fought for the MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY mentality. As long as Obama is a stubborn ignoramus the GOP should continue with heavy obstructionism. When Obama learns how to be a leader and work on compromise, then the GOP should sit down and discuss realistic changes.

      When you people who support Obama learn the truth about gridlock, we will have a nation that is no longer divided.

      I personally agree with about 60% of what Obama said in his campaign, I would support him in his efforts to accomplish what he claims he wants. I would also support him in his economic policies if they made any form of sense realistically. I believe Obama needs to attend a University, wherein he can get an education about capitalistic theory. Or, at a minimum, take a credit counseling course.

  • http://yahoo Glen

    This has been a long time coming, Tx may legally peacefully succeed.

    God help the rest of the country; if they are gone, the Liberals will have a permanent

    majority in the House. We live under rule by fraud, Our Money our electronic voting

    machines, and many of our candidates, Both GOP & DEms. All one big scam.

    Go back to paper ballets, and put it to the vote of the people, if 60% vote to leave,

    let them go in peace. Our constitution is a agreement to the rule of law, it is not a

    suicide pack. The fools running the country have put us on a suicide course with

    dedicate spending.

    Glen a different Glen P.S. I don not live in TX.

    • rhcrest

      For Pete’s sake it is SECEDE not succeed.

      • Smilee

        Either way you lose again!!!!!!!!

    • 45caliber

      Glenn:

      All states can legally secede. And all can based on the same thing. TX is no different than the rest. Legend says TX reserved the right to secede if desired but that isnt’ true. Sam Houston retracted that due to a payment from the Federal government – along with several others. But it IS legal to secede. The only reason the Confederate states didn’t was because Lincoln and the others in Washington didn’t want to lose the tarriff revenue coming into the South from merchant ships from Europe. They had the right to secede but the feds then didn’t want the South to leave. But I seriously doubt if any will be allowed to leave now either. That would suddenly transfer Oblama from a big fish in a big pond to a big fish in a smaller one. I can’t see him and his friends giving that up.

  • Dave67

    CB19, when was that? Can you give me a specific date? Was it before SS when elderly poverty was at 35% (today its at 7.9% thanks to SS)

    Give me specifics… Or are you like the rest of your conservative BSers talking out of your hind quarters yet again>

    • rhcrest

      Wehave spent trillions on poverty since the so called war on poverty started back in the 60′s and the poverty rate is higher now than it was then. Money completely thrown out the window

      • Dave67

        Give specifics….rhcrest

        Why are you still even here? LEAVE….America doesn’t want you.

      • Smilee

        The large welfare programs began in the eighties and continued into the nineties and all under republican administrations and a GOP congress in the ninety these were republican ideas as was Obamacare which they also no longer take ownership of. The war on poverty brought down poverty by 7% and when the republicans added earned income credit, child care subsidies etc. so that companies could destroy unions and lower wages leaving you and I to pick up the tab through taxes and since then poverty has gone up and we now have the working poor which we did not have before Reagan people are now full time employed are on welfare, this is a republican idea. If liberals had their way they would empower the unions more and this would correct itself but then the republican supported business community would again have to pay their own way again and they fight that tooth an nail.

    • rhcrest

      No it is you leftists who should leave. You are the ones trying to turn this country into a communist/socialist utopia vs a Constitutional republic. You should GTFO! Go to Cuba they already have a communist gov’t set already for you.But please do not come back crying once you realize how miserable your utopia is. The door will be slammed shut

      • Smilee

        Your a real whacko!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • eddie47d

        Regardless of what gets said around here we are still a very free nation. There are problems that have arisen yet caused by both Republicans and Democrats. We may admire Ron Paul but he was rejected by a wide margin. So that leaves us with the majority Democrat/Republican parties. Unless those seceding abolish those two parties then little will change for them.

      • rhcrest

        No you leftists are the wackos. Left wing nut jobs

  • lmc

    well they just better pray that obama dont get shot . because there are alot of unhappy ones out there

    • eddie47d

      There is always one assassin in the crowd.Are you scoping out the situation?

  • http://n/a Wayne

    I would rather have our Nation back to where we were 30 years ago. We had come a long way with racial problems and we were getting along with each other fairly well. We still made more of our “things” we need to survive than we do now. I know Romney, or even my cat would have been a better President than Obama. There are so many Anti-American advocates in our system today with one purpose in mind and that is to destroy our great country from within that I wonder if we have already lost it or maybe after four more years we might be able to take it back?

    We as a nation are so divided by Obama’s policies that we are headed for disaster. I’m afraid when the masses that voted him in finally realizes what he has done to them that we may indeed have war in the streets and with that no one wins.

    So, it looks like secession from the Union might not be a bad idea but then that is a very big problem to try to figure out just how it might work. I believe the southern states might be in a better position to economically survive than they did during the Civil War because of the climate, resources and manufacturing facilities. I really don’t want to see a break up of our nation, BUT: I don’t want to see the Obomanites ruin it either and we are definably headed for destruction.

    • Smilee

      Obama is doing none of which you accuse him of, it is much more likely the truth is that you hate him because of his race

      • chuckb

        smilee, if black skin has something to do with the way barry operates the government, yeah, i guess it’s his color.

      • illshowyou

        hey [comment has been edited], we’re not racist, we hate Biden too!

      • Smilee

        chuckb says:
        November 13, 2012 at 10:48 am

        smilee, if black skin has something to do with the way barry operates the government, yeah, i guess it’s his color

        . I never said that I said I think you are a racist, you did not address that

        illshowyou says:
        November 13, 2012 at 12:09 pm

        hey [comment has been edited], we’re not racist, we hate Biden too!

        That’s because Biden is not racist and then hating him is racist too because he supports Obama, I think you is a racist who is afraid to come out of the closet

      • Frank Kahn

        And basically, Obama, has done nothing for the good of the nation that you claim. His GM bailout saved 800,000 jobs in CHINA. His Affordable Healthcare act does nothing to improve healthcare in this country, it only makes more people pay for insurance. The Lilly Leadbetter act did not equalize pay for women, it only made it easier for women to sue their employers for unequal paying practices. Increased regulation of business (with a few exceptions) is harmful to business growth.

        I read the list of his accomplishments in his first 3 years, and I dont see anything there that I would consider to be good for the nation as a whole.

        He has divided the nation in regards to religion and race. He spouts class warfare slogans. He blames everyone and everything on all the problems he deals with, even ones that happened on his watch.

        Everyone that supports him say all of the rest of us are racist or by implication stupid. They say we are women haters because we oppose abortion. We are prejudiced because we think ILLEGAL aliens should be deported. And then you berate us for name calling?

        We lost (by a slim margin) in the presidential election so we should suddenly accept everything Obama does as good? We should accept our fate (even if it is slavery or death), at the hands of the Obama administration, because a couple million more voters voted for Obama than Romney? And you call us RADICAL, where is the moderation in your views about what is the right way to act now? When you do away with the right, the only thing you have is left. Or, maybe then the middle is the right, and the middle left is the middle. I think that maybe, just maybe, if you get rid of what is RIGHT then Obama might be centrist.

  • 45caliber

    25,000 signatures are required for the White House to “consider and answer” the petition. Last night there were 55,000 signatures on the Texas list.

    Texas, this morning, had over 64,000 signatures. I looked.

    • Smilee

      You people are banging your heads against a brick fall hoping to get rid of your hangovers, It does not work. your a loser grow up and get over it!!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        So in effect by your comment you are admitting that there is something wrong with this country and you are seeing the same as the posters you denigrate but you are willing to prostitute yourself so your goodies in the trough don’t stop.

      • eddie47d

        Please explain which bag O goodies we are receiving Nadzieja and where can I sign up for what I am missing.

      • 45caliber

        eddie:

        You sign up for welfare to get your bag of goodies. Oh, wait. You’re already on it, aren’t you.

    • Smilee

      Nadzieja Batki says:
      November 13, 2012 at 11:39 am

      WOW!!! Sober up and then come back and try it again and try addressing my post as you missed the mark this time

    • 45caliber

      This morning the count goes to 80,000+! It’s growing! And the number of states has gone from 20 to 40!

      I don’t expect any to be allowed to leave the union but I’m going to be very interested in seeing if the White House will answer these. And I’m going to be very interested in seeing how they answer if they do!

  • http://www.thefreedomtrainusa.com Freedom
  • chuckb

    wouldn’t it be good if these states filing the petition actually succeeded, count me in whoever secedes first, that’s where i will reside.
    it would be funny to see what happens to all the little bolsheviks, unionist, state and fed workers,welfare tribes illegals and just plain stupid liberals, left in their welfare states, if the secession succeeds. great idea, in fact if it works the states seceding should set up a screening program so the cancer of government dependence doesn’t follow them.

    • rhcrest

      YEs. no leftists allowed

      • Flashy

        rhcrest…just curious. Define “leftist”. Will you allow Hispanics, Latinos, Black, Asian? Social programs allowed? Minimum Wages? Public Schools? Government subsidized churches? Unions or labor collectives? Public streets and utilities? Land Use? Environmental laws and regs?

        Please…tell us your Utopia …

      • Dave67

        Flashy,

        This one should be good.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Flashy and Dave67, you two are IDIOTS plain and simple. From your names it appears that you are males but why are you whining like females about things that will never occur?

      • Dave67

        Nad,

        Careful… thats alot of words for you… your feeble mind seems taxed by the post.

      • eddie47d

        Why does Nadzieja whine and complain about things that never occur? “Its easier to preach 10 sermons than it is to live One”. So how about stepping out of the pulpit and admit your own infallibility’s.

    • eddie47d

      Who’s going to run those newly established Texas agencies? Texas government workers! You’ll still have your Child Protection agencies,road workers,emergency crews,firefighters,state patrol,school teachers and administrations,judges,juries and prison system,border patrols,river management and so forth. Maybe you expected a loose honor system where things might get done and then again maybe not.

      • Frank Kahn

        your number one delusion is that you seem to think that Texan’s are incapable of self government. It is possible to have a government that provides for essential services and infrastructure without it being overly large and intrusive.

  • Jovita Couty

    who is passing the petitions for Il. I would like to sign it. Now people are waking up!! Thanks be to God!

  • Norm

    What this country needs is patriots, not self righteous cowards.
    If you don’t play by my rules, I’ll take my bat and leave. You can’t be a 12 year old brat forever.
    I don’t know which Constitution you’re reading, but try reading ours!!

    • rhcrest

      And yes i am sure that you would have said that to the Founding Fathers – MORON.

      • Norm

        rhcrest
        I studied the Founding Fathers. You are no Founding Father!
        You’re a right wing extremist idiot.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Norm, your man O won or haven’t you been paying attention to the news. Your comment does not make any sense.

    • rhcrest

      Sorry Norm but we don’t want to live under your communism/socialism/progressivism or whatever it is you are calling it at the moment. Just because a slim majority voted to live off of the other half doesn’t mean the other half is just going to rolll over and take it. Elections have consequences [comment has been edited] and backlashes. You think we are just going to let you walk all over us? Think again.

      • Norm

        332 to 206 electoral votes isn’t too slim. The best Bush ever did in 2 elections was 286 (271 in 2000).
        As far as seceding, why don’t all you “rebels” go to a country in South America or Africa and start your own country. Don’t apply the US for foreign aid, however.
        Also most of the folks on the dole in this country come from the Red States.

    • rhcrest

      Oh and sorrybut the name calling is really just boring at this point. You can call me whatever you want i really don’t care. And you are a left wing extemist wack job.

      • eddie47d

        “some people are kind,polite,and sweet spirited Until you try and sit in their pew”. Your name calling says plenty about that rhcrest. You have a closed heart to go along with that closed mind.

    • Frank Kahn

      First of all you might want to go easy on your uneducated name calling. Most true patriots are not cowards. And, if you really want them to take the other alternative, it means war. Are you advocating that WE THE PEOPLE rise up in open revolt against an oppressive government?

      The system is broken, and it is not just broken because a bunch of uneducated emotional people elected Obama. It is broken because a bunch of uneducated emotional people could elect Obama.

      The democratic system can only work if the voters are educated, and I dont mean public school education. If you ask people questions about policies of the government, and you ask the about key figures in a political group, and they have no idea who they are or what their policies are then they should not be allowed to vote for either candidate. But, this would make the polling process take to long so we cant have that can we.

      I dont know about voter fraud, I am sure it happened, but not who profited most from it. I read an article that said that hundreds of thousands of military absentee ballots were delayed and therefor not counted. That is wrong, those votes were made on time and should have been tallied with the rest of the votes. There are many reasons that the voting system is broken and I dont see how we can fix them all right away, but we need to start trying.

    • http://none Charlie

      Norm,,,
      Not a bad idea,,,but,,,””They””” ain’t going by the Constitution, and have not been for years…… NOT to mention “”They””” have GROSSLEY changed the Constitution since George and his Masons wrote the first one … BUT guess what has been the same for over
      2000+ years and was the first Constitution for America???? THE Bible!!! how about that?
      Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      Charlie Freedom

  • William Puckett

    Where do I go to sign a petition for the state of North Carolina? Please help!

  • RichE

    That’s funny, hardcore GOP Texas seceding. Without the United States Border Patrol, Texas would be overrun by Mexican drug cartels and in an instant become a minority majority.

    • Smilee

      We would have to move the fence to this side of the Texas borders to keep them out and they would probably lose the war with the cartel, they talk tough in Texas but they are not. Mostly hot air.

      • RichE

        That’s even funnier Smillee, and which minority group would provide the labor to move the fence?

    • http://none Charlie

      Read comment several above,,,Mexico was bought out for 10 cents an acre

  • norml14u

    Just a thought.. Did Pres, Commander IN CHIEF have microwave or on- the- stove- top- POPCORN AND pepsi or COCACOLA while HE was watching our Seals and Ambassador being killed and raped(he was raped and dragged through the streets) Seven hours. Probably had hot dogs and peanuts ,too. Maybe, even coffee and muffins. While wondering how long our guys could just keep on fighting before the morters could zero in on them and BLOW THEM AWAY!! The muslim brotherhood are welcome in our Whitehouse, our taxes are buying them food and drink and probably paying for their transportation. I

    I just can’t wait ’til George Clooney, Snoop Dawg and all the other Lib idiots that got O elected find out that they are in the 5% that O is expecting to shell out their FAIR SHARE, I hope it’s 90% of their income!!

    Instead of secession, we should just put all the lefties in Washinton D,C. , put a 20′ chainlink fence around it, and kick them out of the union.As rapidly as AIDS spreads , we can take the fence down in about 10 years. and plant non GMO crops there.

    You call yourselves Americans. I don’t think I can count on you having my 6! gET OUT , LEAVE US A LONE! Do y, ou just have to keep pointing to yourselves and saying look at us we don’t believe in God, we don’t believe that lickity split or packing our [expletive deleted] ain’t right,
    if someone has to break the law, heck that’s o.k. They need to!

  • ranger09

    Maybe a lot of Americans are waking up and letting themselves be heard, To bad it will fall on deft ears. Also if a State would secede the Fed would just come in and take over. But NO state will secede because the states Politicians are run by the Feds. Any state that secedes i Will Move to that State and defend its right. AND this does not mean that i am not an American, Because my family was American before America became America.

    • Smilee

      Your a small minority is all these states, and in the end you will look like the fools your are, you most certainly fall flat on your faces

  • MD

    Don’t let the door hit you where the good Lord split you the way out

  • MD

    Perhaps you should name your new country to “petulant children of America” Let me call 911 and get you a WAAAAAAAMULENCE!
    For Pete’s sake four years of being here and gone before you know it we will be engaged in the democratic process again just like we have the last 200 years. Get over it!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      So why are you worried that O won?

      • eddie47d

        Is that a misprint Nadzieja or just a play on words?

      • MD

        Worried? I’m not worried. I’m quite happy that the NeoCon wackadoodles didn’t get into power. I’m reminding all the crybaby foot stomping breath holding fist waving babies to get over it. It’s democracy. if the conservatives ome up with a message more people want to hear next time they’ll win. and so it goes like it has for over 200 years.

  • ? Mike

    I have believed for a long time now, that our very own government and it’s leaders do not repsent we the people, nor do they care for what we fill or what we say like saying no to the follow, Agenda 21, Obama care, aliens crossing our borders, two wars, voter fraud, voter ID, the UN putting their nose in our business, etc it’s now time to stand and be united agains this lying trend and it’s leaders and put an end to their lies and stop them dead in their tracks, be united in our effort, stand and be counted and get ready to fight for our land and our freedoms and our rights with out fail we will win or we will die, but make no mistake about it, this is for our very freedom to believe in life liberty god happiness and make our own choices in life and the main one free or freedom, let no man or president try to tell us how to act or what to think, or make his own laws with out going through congress or due process!

    God bless our nation and it’s people to stand strong and be united with one mission to remove the UN and it’s game if control, and all leaders of control, throw them all the hell out of our fine country!!!

    • Smilee

      They do jot represent you and your silly beliefs which are a distortion of the truth but the do represent the majority of the populations and that is what counts the whiners like yourself do not.

  • anonymous

    the total number signing petitions to secede has passed a half a million now

    • Dave67

      Coincidentally?, that is about the number of mentally ill that was thrown into the streets by Reagan as part of his cost cutting binge to try and pay for his massive defense spending increases.

    • Smilee

      In a country of 313 million that is not even worth mentioning as it only proves how small the group is that believes as you do

      • chuckb

        smilee, it should be obvious by to you after this election, the people that want to secede are not the majority, the welfare crowd, fed,state, unions, minorities and illegals are the majority, that’s the problem we want you welfare recipients to live together and off each other, you want us to afford your style of living we want to earn our own living and plan on doing it ourselves. the seed is planted, you are starting to see the movement growing.
        take a look at south africa and zimbabwe (formerly rodehsia ) both these coiuntries were self sufficient and wealthy until the bolsheviks and their implication of racial injustice destroyed both countries. take a look at both these countries and you will see what the u.s. will look like soon.
        the illegal immigration has destroyed california and new york, they have become a determining factor in the national elections, these people came from mexico the carribean and central america. their home countries are 3rd world,” poverty rules,” they come to this country and vote for the same type of government that keeps them in poverty and ignorance. so you shouldn’t criticize people who don’t want to live under these conditions, although you apparently do since barry is your hero.

        • Smilee

          First of all I am not on welfare and never was I had union wages and made to much money to qualify for that, the bulk of welfare are in the states where a few are screaming for secession and mostly right to work states that produce so many underpaid jobs and that is why you will fail as so many would go into abject poverty in these states if they lost their welfare mostly in the form of earned income credit and child care credit and stamps, these states get a lot of money from the feds which if you succeeded (you will not) would be flushed down the drain. This is stupid talk mostly by angry racists

  • Fred

    Texas now has 76,916 signatures as of 1:31 pm cst Tuesday, November 13, 2012

    • Dave67

      Wow… the whole city of Byran…out of a 25M state population…

      Come on TX you can get to the population of Allen… Still a minority but you can’t let any other state out “crazy” TX.

      • Fred

        78,062 signatures now at 2:03 pm ….word is just getting out.
        PS: one “m” = thousand and two “mm” = million

  • http://none Joe Justice

    You left out the KKK…did you watch the recent 60 min segment on these folks who also want their all white state AND a totally black one for those of color. They also are armed. Just part of those who want to seceed. Different view that joins the others. One civil war was not enough for some folks. JJ

  • douglas lunde

    i am a 69 year old vet.but i also served in u.s.aid i went to the baltic states to teach free market principals to former comunists it is so sad to see poeple so dependen on gov.they thought they could not servive after the fall.so sad.i heard an old indian vet.say it the best these liberals who depend on the gov. are like bumpster eagles.how so i said he said one eagle flys free and provides fo r himself and his family always will.the others that depend on the dumpster to servive will die when the dumpster is taken away.i have seen a lot in my years.my uncle liberated jewish pow camps don’t think we can’t be enslaved if we don’t stay free one of our founding fathers said one who gives up freedom for security deserves neither.so all of you dumpster eagleswho think big gov. is the answer listen to your’e eldersyou are not smarter in the ways of the world.some day when when the gov takes over you will say my god what have i done i helped to destroy the the most free and most prosperes country there ever was.i will tel you a story of my visit to lithuania the russians had turned of the gasthere was no heat lithuania was the first to withdraw from the ussr i was cold and so was everyone else so i said lets put in wood stoves and we will al be warm my interpreter said we could never do that the high cheif would stop us.i said you mean he wants you to be cold she said in a comunist system that is his status.you just don’t understand how it is in these communist obsurdities we cant even think like you do. icoud tell many mor sad tales i saw so all you dumpster eagles keep thinking gov. is the answer you will ruin our great country.

  • http://www.facebook.com/martha.weems.1 notalemming

    It seems to me that states should bear in mind that just as Lincoln would not/could not
    allow the South to secede from the Union, Obama has no intention of doing so either. The website that has been set up for citizen’s concerns/complaints is a perfect way for
    this administration to have information on each and every one of those (including email addresses) who resist his policies. These people will be on the “A” list when it is decided to implement marshall law…..and, instead of civil war and destruction of our
    nation’s assets, people will be rounded up and made “guests” of the FEMA camps with
    all the chain linked, barbed wire topped fences and guard towers. We should be careful
    what we ask for. I think secession is a great idea, I’m just sayin……..

    • Robert

      Sound like this is Scare Tactic, but I am not and am ready for it.

      • http://www.facebook.com/martha.weems.1 notalemming

        My comments were not meant as a scare tactic….I, personally, am truly afraid of the
        government we now have. I just wanted to cause people to think because seceding
        from the Union “ain’t gonnna happen”, so why put your name on a list?

  • cawmun cents

    You are all nuts……..-CC.

  • TML

    The most interesting thing about these petitions which no one seems to have addressed is that the Federal Government, nor the majority of the Union, can grant, or take away, the right/power of secession from the individual States. The petitions to the White House are dubious because they do not acknowledge this, simply by being submitted to the Federal Government, rather than the State Legislature or Governor.

    Secession is nowhere in the Constitution, nor even how a State ‘could’ secede, and thus is not a power delegated to the United States by that Constitution, and therefore reserved to the State and to the people of that State.

    • chuckb

      revolution is.

      • TML

        revolution is… what? In the Constitution?
        No, the word ‘revolution’ never appears in the Constitution either.

        The word “rebellion” appears twice, but clearly isn’t a reference to secession in any way.

        rebellion – noun
        1. open, organized, and armed resistance to one’s government or ruler.
        2. resistance to or defiance of any authority, control, or tradition.

        revolution – noun
        1. an overthrow or repudiation and the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed.

        Secession – noun
        1. to withdraw formally from an alliance, federation, or association, as from a political union, a religious organization, etc.

        Quite a big difference in meanings.

    • Laura

      I had not really considered that, but I would have to agree with you if I think about it earnestly… I guess they are more or less then, simply a cry for attention, which should make people within the Federal government think, but it would more likely take an actual, successful secession to do that.

  • Laura

    I have not signed a secession petition, mainly because the one set up for my current state of residency was written in such bad grammar that I would have felt embarrassed. People should honestly read through their words at least once or twice before posting them on there! It was sad.

    I did, however create a new petition, which is not actually about secession (or “deporting” those who sign them). I hope some of you will take a look & possibly agree with me for the circumstances. If you know any business owners, you understand how much this can be an issue. There is always a good reason to have an exception to something, & I believe this should count as one.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/allow-tax-breaks-job-providers/4QrTct92

  • JHR

    Obumber White House: A Fully Owned Div. of Goldmun Suchs

  • chuckb

    smilee, the bulk of welfare is california, new york and the states with the largest cities you will find are all in the blue circuit. these states are gone they will never be able to be anything more than welfare concubines. this last election sealed the fate of the united states, it is now a socialist welfare country, that is why some states are asking for secession. the bolsheviks have been working through the education system for the last sixty years for this result and also allowing a mass of illegals to invade the country, knowing these people would be pawns for the socialist scheme. they have won, the only path to freedom is divorcing from this federal government otherwise sign up for food stamps, that is until they run out.

    • http://MikeW Mike Willemsen

      I think succession is a great idea. Let Texas and 3 or 4 states secede, and it will guarantee a Democractic electoral victory for the next election.

      • Frank Kahn

        Objection, argumentative supposition and using facts not in evidence.

  • Bimbam

    Isn’t it strange? This is over knee-growls again. I mean they threatened secession with Lincoln over knee-growls, and now some 150 years later the same thing involving knee-growls again because obamA is a knee-growl?

    Yes, black and white, a demarcated line if I ever saw one.

    • Frank Kahn

      Not sure what a knee-growl is but if you are attempting to play the moronic race card again you fail. Aint about race, it is about ability to lead.

      • Bimbam

        It’s all about race. Stop kidding yourself with a “holier that thou” attitude.

        Demoncraps and liberals are racist. It started with them and it will stop with them since Republicans are too racked with guilt about being labeled a racist by the racist themselves.

        Me? I’m a realist, an observer, and eyes don’t lie. It’s call phenomena…..

        • Frank Kahn

          I was saying that our dislike of Obama’s administration is not about race, but thanks for the support of who are the real racists.

    • Smoovious Laxness

      Oh sure… it couldn’t possibly be that we’re fed up with the way the constitution has been shat on for the past couple decades… all you can see is that it is about a mixed-race president… and you have the nerve to call _us_ racists… incredible…

      – Smoov

  • Hanzies Mom

    I wonder how the Ohio folks who voted for O feel today? Their food stamps are getting cut at the beginning of the year. Like I always say, what the Gvt. gives out they can take away. Didn’t take them long to prove me right about that. What next? Cutting SS for the elderly? How about euthanizing those too old or disabled to contribute to the new Socialist Society? Wake up people. The only thing we as Americans can do is get down on our knees, pray that we can be forgiven, and re-dedicate our lives and our country to the almighty God who gave it to us in the first place. At this point it is our ONLY option. Please go to http://www.tomorrowsworld.org to learn the truth about what is happening before it is too late for us all. I pray that you do…..

  • chuckb

    tml, Attempts at or aspirations of secession from the United States have been a feature of the country’s politics since its birth. Some have argued for a constitutional right of secession and others for a natural right of revolution. The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.

    • TML

      Chuckb says, “The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional…”

      Interestingly, such ruling was made immediately following the war. One doesn’t have to be a Constitutional scholar to understand the historical concept behind the Constitution; namely that it only delegates powers to the Federal government, leaving all others reserved for the state and to the people. The federal powers were intentionally few and defined, while those of the states and its people, too numerous to mention. Thus if no provisions for withdraw (secession) are set forth, it is not a power of the Federal Government to dictate, and therefore unilateral secession is perfectly Constitutional.

      Chuckb says, “…while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.”

      The problem with asserting that secession requires consent from the many other states, or that revolution could be successful while formal secession is not, is twofold. First, a requirement of consent by the many states to allow one to secede is not outlined in the Constitution and so one must seriously question where the Supreme Court obtained this reasoning which is akin to the proverbial ‘two wolves and a sheep deciding what’s for dinner’. Or put another way; it is against all Constitutional principle in the Republic to give the many, power over the few, insomuch as allowing them to take away the rights of the minority in this way. Can the many states rightfully chose for those of another state what might seem best to them in affecting their own safety and happiness, or would such power be a tyranny of the many over the one?
      Second, after presuming to give such pseudo-right to the many states, asserting that unilateral secession is unconstitutional, while then asserting revolution as viable, are two mutually exclusive statements. It proposes that in the face of no consent by the many states, revolution is legal or might be successful. What such a statement does is reaffirm in their own minds at the time that the unilateral secession of a state may rightfully be called a rebellion, because such ruling presumes not to acknowledge the states individual right of unilateral secession, and thus within the power of the Federal government to quell.

      In short, the Supreme Court ruling was dangerous and completely wrong.

      It’s important to note that there is a grave difference between secession and revolution. Secession does not necessarily mean ‘the thorough replacement of an established government or political system by the people governed’ as much as it means ‘formal withdraw from a political Union’.

      • Smilee

        The SC interpretations are binding on us all, no matter how you interpret it, it is not binding on anyone and therefore just pure BS

      • TML

        The SC interpretations are just that; interpretations. An incorrect interpretation is not binding as law and to think so makes unalienable rights such as these subject to the whimsical desire of a court, effectively giving them legislative power. Interpretations are always subject to re-examination, and given the fact such ruling was made immediately following the war, when prior to the war the right of unilateral secession was common knowledge, in agreement to the interpretation I present here; it is the Supreme Court interpretation that is pure BS.

  • Alex Frazier

    Fellow bloggers …

    Anyone who is considering signing one of those petitions, I would encourage you to refrain. I would also encourage you to encourage others to refrain, and to put this sort of talk to bed.

    We are presently the most powerful nation in the world precisely because we are a united nation. One of the primary reasons for establishing a centralized federal government was to provide for a common defense. If someone attacks New Jersey, South Carolina is there to fight beside them. If someone attacks Oregon, Vermont is there to fight with them. We are one nation and one people, one force, and a thing to be reckoned with.

    If states actually managed to secede, we would no longer be a united nation. We would be individual states. In some cases we may have treaties with each other. In other cases we may not. But no one is obligated to help Virginia when they are attacked if we are not united.

    Now, this is assuming secession is actually possible. I think in reality, these petitions can do little more than make a statement of principle, or perhaps enlighten the federal government as to the general sentiments of our nation’s citizens. Secession will take war. The federal government won’t allow any state to leave, no more so than it did at the time of the Civil War.

    The real solution comes also from the Declaration of Independence. It’s not about severing ties. It’s about finding new guardians to defend our lives, our liberty, and our pursuit of happiness. We don’t need to secede from the federal government. We just need to put our foot down and tell them what we expect. If need be, we tell them our expectations at gun-point. That is what the second amendment is actually designed for.

    How about someone being creative and posting a grievance demanding a full restoration of Constitutional values in lieu of the bills and acts they have passed to circumvent, abridge, or infringe on Constitutional rights, powers, or restrictions.

    • Dave67

      Since when do these right-wing loon conservatives care about the country? That is their problem.

      • Frank Kahn

        Not all of the concerned disenfranchised people are RIGHT WING, and even those that are right wing are not LOONS. Your statement implying that people on the right dont care about our country is wrong and based on either prejudice or ignorance. I am not on the right, and I am appalled at the course being set by the current government. I dont point fingers at the Democrats, or the left wing of politics, I just look at the extreme loss of liberties happening lately. This is a form of concern for our country, and if it takes armed revolt to solve the problem then that is the extreme form of action to solve issues that concern us about this country.

        “Our Country, Love it or Leave it”, sounds nice and patriotic but it is just the opposite. “Our Country, help it get stronger or get out of the way”, is a much better patriotic sentiment.

        “You lost, so get over it and help the winners continue to do what you know is wrong”, nice way of saying “you lost so now you have to live in despair”.

        The fact is that, we (who oppose Obama’s policies) see the problems with what the Obama administration is doing. We will not accept having this continue without a protest. That is our right under the Constitution of the United States.

    • TML

      Alex says, “If states actually managed to secede, we would no longer be a united nation. We would be individual states. In some cases we may have treaties with each other. In other cases we may not. But no one is obligated to help Virginia when they are attacked if we are not united.”

      I’m not sure why this would be considered the case. If Texas, for example, seceded from the Union, it does not dissolve the Union also among the many other States. Oregon, Vermont, New Jersey, and South Carolina would still be right there ‘beside’ each other.

      Alex says, “Secession will take war. The federal government won’t allow any state to leave, no more so than it did at the time of the Civil War.
      The real solution comes also from the Declaration of Independence. It’s not about severing ties. It’s about finding new guardians to defend our lives, our liberty, and our pursuit of happiness. We don’t need to secede from the federal government. We just need to put our foot down and tell them what we expect. If need be, we tell them our expectations at gun-point.
      How about someone being creative and posting a grievance demanding a full restoration of Constitutional values in lieu of the bills and acts they have passed to circumvent, abridge, or infringe on Constitutional rights, powers, or restrictions.”

      When demanding full restoration of Constitutional values doesn’t work, what then? What is the more reasonable option? Individuals demanding such full restoration at gun-point, or respective State Legislatures peacefully declaring secession? Secession doesn’t have to mean war, just like it did not have to mean war before. If the Federal Government “won’t allow” peaceful secession then it’s up to them to stop the state by force, and the State would defend against the aggressor… just like before. It would be the Federal Government making war on the State, and thereby holding the morally deficient position in the eyes of the whole world. Even Lincoln knew he could not attack the Confederacy without provoking the first shot in a way that made it ‘appear’ as if South Carolina were the aggressors.

      • Alex Frazier

        TML,

        To secede is to formally withdraw from membership in an organization, association, or alliance. The United States of America is precisely that because of our formal agreement to be an organized alliance of states. Each colony, in its truest sense, is an individual country. That’s why they are called states, because they were each a sovereign political entity, or a body politic. Now the states are considered lesser territorial political units subordinate to a sovereign federation.

        The very act of seceding is the act of withdrawing from the federation and becoming a separate autonomous sovereign nation. It is the nullification of our organization with, the renunciation of our association with, and the revocation of our alliance with the United States of America, because we will no longer be one of those united states, but rather, a separate and independent state.

        You have to remember that a centralized federal government is what makes us united. The Constitution has no authority the moment you secede (you better hope your state has a good one already in place).

        As to your other question … we will have full Constitutional restoration eventually. History has long proven that governments can only abuse their citizens for so long before the masses rise up. If we can’t get Constitutional restoration now, someone else will demand it later. And if it doesn’t happen then, someone else will step up, remove the government, and put everything to rights in a much less pleasant way. However powerful and out of reach our government seems, never forget that there are only five hundred or so holding all the reins of power.

        Sooner or later the people storm the Bastille.

        And secession will take war. Regardless of who starts it, it will take war. The federal government can’t allow the states to leave the union. If it allows it, our nation will fall apart. There will be war if there is to be secession.

        That’s why I say, people would fare better to ask for something the government can deliver. Not only can it deliver a restoration of Constitutional laws, but the sitting house, senate, and president that do deliver such a thing will go down in the history books as great men and statesmen.

        But even the greatest of such men would have to oppose secession.

        I personally think it’s a terrible idea. It will make this nation, which is currently a super power, vulnerable.

  • chuckb

    the way this government is leading we may have to resort to armed rebellion. we are practically back to square one, that’s where the whole thing started with armed rebellion or we can turn into another cuba. i believe this last election shows the majority of people are willing to lose their freedom for a few welfare crumbs. in the beginning of this country the majority were not willing to fight, fortunately the minority stood up.

    • 45caliber

      chuckb:

      Are you one of the agitators those in power are supporting? We’ve has several on here calling for an armed uprising … so those in power now can nuke the group and claim to the rest of the country it was necessary. And, of course, point out that the rest of the country better stay in line or get nuked too.

      • chuckb

        45, agitator? when i make a statement like it may take armed rebellion to straighten out this country, that’s agitating? do you have a better idea? maybe you could stand on the corner and wave the flag, do you think that would bring these bolsheviks back to their senses? why did our fore fathers rebel against england? aren’t we on that same track.?
        you won’t change this government at the ballot box, the media and the government control the minds of the peons, the people are more attuned to basketball and football games than they are what’s happening to their freedom. the education system over the last sixty years or so have implanted marxism in the weaker minds and these people have filled the ranks on capitol hill and public office. so you tell me how this can be changed.

      • 45caliber

        Agitator.

        There are several people I’ve seen on this site in the past who were government agitators. One of their favorite tactics was to try to encourage people here to call for a revolution and march on Washington. After being confronted, most have left.

        I’m not saying that we shall recover the country at the ballot box. Actually, I think it will be because the country breaks up under the weight of too many loans. The USSR did so we have an example. But remember who has their fingers on the switch to launch nukes.

        The first time Washington feels any threat, you won’t have to worry about the army or the police. They will use a nuke. It gets rid of the threat and it makes a very telling argument for the rest of the country to bow and keep your mouths shut. Those caught outside the blast radius will lose all power, water, food, and transportation – at least. They will send in news crews to take their pictures as they starve, pointing out that the only reason these poor innocent people are dying is because the big bad rebels tried to over run them. And the point will be “you too can become toast if you attempt to harm us or allow others to try. Kill them or we will kill you – slowly.”

        There are a few ways to get around this but armed insurrection won’t be one of them.

  • G. Baca

    I have read most of the comments on this site, and just have a couple of things to say. 1. The fact O won by cheating does not make Conservatives racial. People who drop the race card are racial. 2. Everyone knows the bigots are on the left. 3. This country was orignially very conservative. Our forefathers are spinning in their graves at the creatures who claim that those upholding the Constitution should leave their country. Rather those coming in and trying to “change” it should leave and go to a country that is already “changed”! I will not dignify them individually with an argument. Never try to teach a pig to sing. It frustrates the teacher and pisses off the pig. I am through here. I am leaving this site, so you will not have the satisfaction of a comeback. Goodbye.

    • 45caliber

      G.:

      I agree. Sad, isn’t it?

  • donimn

    Myyyyyy, myyyyyy, my, are we acting like Democrats and Republicans now? When what we should be doing, is working together to preserve and protect the Constitution, the one thing that made the United States the greatest country in the world!? When adhered to, worked for (We The People.)

    • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

      No, we’re not the greatest country in the world…

      Someday, maybe we will be again… but certainly not now…

      We’re stuck at mediocre…

      – Smoov

      • 45caliber

        Smoov:

        We’re still the greatest country in th world. But that’s only because of the decline of the rest too.

  • http://NotAvailable Philip A. Sandi

    Now you want to leave the union because the GOP with its word view and conservative miscalculation is continuing to shrink might just lose it all. The demographics have change so common change your message or be left out. Maybe next time a democratic Latino president 2024. 2016-2024 surely is for the first female president of the United States and she is democrat. So stop the lofty idea of breaking apart the Union. Racism is just a thing of the past. For 200-years it was the white majority rule. Why can us just tolerate the black rule for eights years. And the part about it OBAMA is a blessing

    • http://none Charlie

      Philip,,,
      Racism is in The Bible, not by word ,,,BUT,,, by fact, see Matthew 15:24,,,1 Chronicles 16:13… King Jesus was in a particular race and He came only for a particular race…
      Read it! …’Meanwhile…………….
      Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      Charlie Freedom

    • Frank Kahn

      What woman are you PRETENDING will be president?

      Latino is a misnomer, and it would cover about half the countries in the world.

      I will assume you are saying his name means blessing, since nothing he has done has blessed this naition as a whole.

      AND GET OVER IT, IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT COLOR HE IS, HE IS A BAD LEADER, WITH BAD IDEAS THAT ARE HARMFUL TO OUR ECONOMY AND FOREIGN RELATIONS.

      • http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Day-Gettysburg-Lisa-Phillips/dp/1432710281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352934187&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+day+gettysburg Lisa C. Phillips

        Have you read the reasons for the secession movement? Start with Texas. Each US State has a Constitution. Then, we used to have a national constitution before the Patriot Act. States are seceding due to the size of the federal government, the TSA, the NDAA, federal reserve criminal banking cartel and many other reasons. Romney has nothing to do with it. I NEVER ONCE supported Mittens Romney.

        • Frank Kahn

          I am a little confused that this post was a reply to mine. Your words and explanation have nothing to do with my post.

          I understand the reasoning behind the secession movement, it is not so much about Obama as it is about the unconstitutional acts that have been placed by the government of the US. Loss of liberties and the looming, and now, probably unavoidable economic disaster is the main reasons.

          • http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Day-Gettysburg-Lisa-Phillips/dp/1432710281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353205154&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+day+gettysburg Lisa C. Phillips author of Modern Day Gettysburg

            HI Frank, my comments are not appearing where they should fall on this page. So sorry for the confusion, you and I are on the same wavelength! US Constitution should rule !

  • http://www.facebook.com/arly.pedersen Arly Pedersen

    The federal government no longer follows the constitution this means that the states that are in league with Washington have left the union already. It’s up to us that love our republic to form a new government that does conform to our inspired constitution
    Arly Pedersen national chair of The American Party.

    • http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Day-Gettysburg-Lisa-Phillips/dp/1432710281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353004318&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+day+gettysburg Lisa C. Phillips

      Arly – AMEN !

    • http://none Charlie

      Arly,,,
      So? what Law are We under now? Send , Chain of command…. Meanwhile…
      Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      Charlie Freedom

    • sam1966

      Sounds good, but when do we get started? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

      “Power always thinks…that it is doing God’s service when it is violating all His laws.”

      John Adams

    • http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Day-Gettysburg-Lisa-Phillips/dp/1432710281/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353205154&sr=8-1&keywords=modern+day+gettysburg Lisa C. Phillips author of Modern Day Gettysburg

      Arly – I need information on the American Party. I plan to support Chuck Baldwin in 2016 for President. Where do I sign up or get information on the American Party?

  • Dave67

    To all secessionists.

    This is the United States of America. We are not holding you here against your will. You are free to leave at any time. Please do. Nobody will miss you, your hatred and fear or your craziness.

    Thank you.

    • http://none Charlie

      Dave67,,,
      OK? IF We just succeed under The Law Book of King Jesus Christ and Him as King of America ??? King Jesus Christ Owns the Earth… Meanwhile…
      Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation…

      Charlie Freedom

  • DougDeGrave

    Jerry Brown stain, Governor of Commifornja is proposing a new tax for CA residents that sell their homes and GTFO of the state. How that could possibly be enforced is beyond me, but I’m not surprised.
    Why can’t The Feds just expatriate?
    Wait, D.C. is already seceded from the U.S, right?
    ….Reminds me of an old grade-school nursery rhyme, “Marijuana,marijuana. Angel Dust, Angel Dust. Jimmy Carter grows it, Ronald Reagan Smokes it. Why can’t we? Why can’t we?”

  • Big Woody

    Secession is a high ideal, but not much of a reality. We the people and our governments in the 50 states do have a viable and workable alternative. Just as several states are refusing to implement Obamacare. We can start withdrawing from other federal programs. Check to see if the costs involved in implementing federal mandates in our schools are actually paid for with federal money. Probably not. So we need to tell the Dept of Education we no longer are participating with thier programs and we can take”OUR” schools back from the federal interference. The feds with their energy programs and the EPA have virtually put a stop to states developing the natural resorces within each states borders. It is time to tell them we are no longer interested in their guidence or “their money” (our tax dollars). The states have become dependant on federal money much the same as Obama voters have become dependant on government handouts. If we are to stop the increased federalism from Washington, we must stop accepting thier money which allways comes with their strings attached.

  • jopa

    Well after it is all said and done we can go back to the light bulb idea of Michelle Bachman.We would like to see all states secede from the United States and then we could all join together as one.I believe a good name for this new union would be the United States of America.It would be a magnificent move in that we already have a President Senate Congress state borders with elected officials and all the wackos that signed the petition would be or should be overwhelmed with delight.Then everyone could go on with their life and live happily ever after.

    • Frank Kahn

      I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment and idea, with one exception.

      To make it a valid move, and to make it a better nation, we have to get rid of the, as you call them, wackos.

      First we get rid of all of the house of representatives, next the members of congress have to go, and to make it a clean sweep, the president and vice president.

      You will notice, I hope, that I did not say just the democrats. Our government and political system is broken and it needs a complete house cleaning. Obama might not be any worse than Clinton and Bush, but he is definitely not any better.

  • Ethan

    The United States needs a House cleaning, a Senate clearing, and an Executive purging…BUT…the Secession should be from the United Nations and it’s “New World Order” cronies controlled by the Zionist Banksters who are nearly in “total control” of the entire world.

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