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San Diego County Backs Off Threat to Shut Down Bible Study

July 6, 2009 by  

San Diego County Backs Off Threat to Shut Down Bible Study

Score one, at least temporarily, for the First Amendment, which has been revived after what seemed a death blow in California.

In San Diego, county officials have reneged on their demand that a preacher and his wife discontinue weekly Bible studies in their home until they obtain a Major Use Permit, a process that costs tens of thousands of dollars.

According to news reports out of San Diego, Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary were interrogated by a county official and then threatened with increasing fines if they continued holding their Tuesday night Bible studies. The studies regularly drew about 15 people.

Attorney Dean Broyles of The Western Center for Law and Policy told 10 News television the county official asked:

  • Do you have a regular meeting in your home?
  • Do you say amen?
  • Do you pray?
  • Do you say “Praise the Lord?”

They answered in the affirmative on all four questions. The official then told the couple they were in violation of county regulations. A few days later they received a written warning that listed “unlawful use of land” and told them to “stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit,” according to Broyles.

Reports of the county’s actions drew howls of protest from liberty-minded groups and received a lot of attention in the blogosphere, as well they should. As a group, government bureaucrats lack any kind of common sense. That one would attempt to shut down a home Bible study demonstrates a lack of understanding or lack of education about our country’s founding and what led to the establishment of our nation’s Bill of Rights.

The hue and cry from freedom-loving Americans obviously worked. On May 29, County Chief Administrative Officer Walt Ekard issued a statement saying the Bible study could continue.

“I have received dozens of emails and calls from people concerned about reports that the county is attempting to muzzle religious expression by shutting down a neighborhood Bible study. As chief administrative officer for San Diego County, I want to say in the most direct terms: the county has never tried to stifle religious expression and never will,” Ekard said.

“More importantly, let me be clear: religious intolerance in any form is not, and never will be, allowed under any circumstance in San Diego County government,” he said.

As encouraging as it is that the county reversed itself, nothing in Ekard’s statement addresses the questions asked by a county official about what the Joneses were doing in their home.

It’s none of the county’s business what the Joneses were doing in their home, and the questions about whether they were saying amen, praying and praising the Lord should have been answered with a slammed door.

So, religious freedom in America has withstood, for now at least, another attack. But stay vigilant. The agents of tyranny are persistent.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • jess kinser

    Those no-good arab lovers must quit tryin to overthrow Christianity!! All religions are foolish, but Christians don’t wanna take over the world by force! And Christians allow women to be educated! And Christians don’t award virgins for blowing us up! Get it? Jess

    • jess kinser

      You are sure right! Moslems can blow us up, but we are supposed to be civil to them?? How long can that go on? Remember Abu Abbas seizing the Achille Lauro if you doubt me! And open any arab textbook in the mideast; It’s always about teaching the kids to hate Israel. No math–no science! Just how to destroy Israel!

      • http://no Brian Rawls

        What I dont understand is that everyone I hear that speaks about islam says that its peacefull. That is so far from the truth. Any person that says this —– is a liar! That would mean that this religon changes its doctrine depending on its location. All of those countries in the middle east except for a few use islam to base their laws. Which stone women for bullshit offenses. It makes me sick to hear it on the news that Islam is peaceful. Most news figures wont say the truth because they dont have the guts. All media is like that even fox news.

        • Ralph Krueger

          Well, Mr. Rawls, I would like to point out that Islam can be seen as peaceful or hateful. It all depends upon how you interpret what you read. Both the Koran and the Bible have passages promoting peace & goodwill and both have passages promoting cruelty and war. Or haven’t you ever read the Old Testament.

          The major difference I see between Muslim and Christian countries is that when Pat Robertson (or whomever) shouts for death to non-Christians our government pretty much ignores him whereas when a Muslim cleric calls for death of Christians the fundamentalist Muslim govt says, “Hmm, good idea.” The current fundamentalist Muslims have the same attitude toward Christians that all the Christian nations had toward Mulims back in the 11th through 15th centuries.

          • dennis

            Islam teaches killing of Christians. The New testamant teaches love. Pat Robertson is not calling for ki;lling of moslems by the Church. I doubt if you have ever liatened to him.

          • crystal

            When did Pat Robertson shout death to non-Christians? I must have missed that one. Did he also strap explosives onto the backs of Christians and have them walk into mosque? What were the results? Can you give us more info?

          • Amy Emerson

            Ralph….will you please show proof of when Pat Robertson or “whoever” actually said those things???? I have plenty of proof on video of Islamics saying “Death to Jews and Christians and the West”.

        • Brian Rawls

          Ralph. You dont see any human rights issues with Islam? Get real, you bring up Pat Robinson. Lets talk about the stoning of females if the take those stupid rags from around their faces. Females have no rights because those countrys laws are based on Islam. You cannot dodge the main theory of it all. There is no way any person in their right mind can say Islam is a peaceful religion. The only reason that stuff dont go on here is because our laws dont allow it. Wake up people.

        • http://Internet Agatha Eckman

          Ithink Calif. better only the first amendment but also what

          the bible says. I also lived in calf. and I thank God.

          my family left there so we are not any part of all amandments.

          and the trampling that is going on Gods holy word.

          • crystal

            We’re planning on leaving California also. Congratulations for getting out.

        • http://www.dawah4all.webs.com Fatima

          Hi,
          I have a duty as a Muslim to reply because I can see there are many people who are still in the dark when it come to Islam.

          The Arabic word ‘Islam’ simply means ‘submission’, and derives from a word meaning ‘peace’. In a religious context it means complete submission to the will of God. ‘Mohammedanism’ is thus a misnomer because it suggests that Muslims worship Muhammad rather than God. ‘Allah’ is the Arabic name for God, which is used by Arab Muslims and Christians alike.

          Islam may seem exotic or even extreme in the modern world. Perhaps this is because religion does not dominate everyday life in the West today, whereas Muslims have religion always uppermost in their minds, and make no division between secular and sacred. They believe that the Divine Law, the Shari’a, should be taken very seriously, which is why issues related to religion are still so important.

          Muslims believe in One, Unique, Incomparable God; in the Angels created by Him; in the prophets through whom His revelations were brought to mankind; in the Day of Judgement and individual accountability for actions; in God’s complete authority over human destiny and in life after death. Muslims believe in a chain of prophets starting with Adam and including Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, Elias, Jonah, John the Baptist, and Jesus, peace be upon them. But God’s final message to man, a reconfirmation of the eternal message and a summing-up of all that has gone before was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad through Gabriel.

          Islam sees a woman, whether single or married, as an individual in her own right, with the right to own and dispose of her property and earnings. A marriage dowry is given by the groom to the bride for her own personal use, and she keeps her own family name rather than taking her husband’s.

          Both men and women are expected to dress in a way which is modest and dignified; the traditions of female dress found in some Muslim countries are often the expression of local customs.

          The Messenger of God said:

          ‘The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manner and kindest to his wife.’

          Like Christianity, Islam permits fighting in self-defense, in defense of religion, or on the part of those who have been expelled forcibly from their homes. It lays down strict rules of combat which include prohibitions against harming civilians and against destroying crops, trees and livestock. As Muslims see it, injustice would be triumphant in the world if good men were not prepared to risk their lives in a righteous cause. The Quran says:

          Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. God does not love transgressors. (2:190)

          If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things. (8:61)

          Freedom of conscience is laid down by the Quran itself: ‘There is no compulsion in religion’. (2:256)

          The life and property of all citizens in an Islamic state are considered sacred whether a person is Muslim or not.

          Racism is incomprehensible to Muslims, for the Quran speaks of human equality in the following terms:

          O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God’s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All Aware (49-13)

          War, therefore, is the last resort, and is subject to the rigorous conditions laid down by the sacred law. The term jihad literally means ‘struggle’, and Muslims believe that there are two kinds of jihad. The other ‘jihad’ is the inner struggle which everyone wages against egotistic desires, for the sake of attaining inner peace.

          As you can see, What’s happening in the name of Islam- has nothing to do with Islam itself. Not everyone who calls themselves Muslim are in fact Muslims
          A Muslim is a person who Submit totally.

          Oh by the way About what you call – “stupid rags from around their faces”

          The Legislation of Hijab:

          The proof that would come to mind when talking about the obligation of hijab is the verses 30-31 in Surah 24 of the Holy Qur?an, which give the meaning of:
          {Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be modest. That is purer for them. Lo! Allah is Aware of what they do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands? fathers, or their sons or their husbands’ sons, or their brothers or their brothers’ sons or sisters? sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigor, or children who know naught of women’s nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed.}

          These verses clearly reveal the idea that a Muslim woman should wear her hijab according to God?s commands. I need here to confirm a point that even that in the previous verses the word hijab was not spelled out in the first place, but Allah Almighty stated ?good behaviors? as a ?prerequisite? to hijab.

          Christianity, as well as Islam, figured how important it is for a woman to wear hijab. We can easily see that the nuns are still wearing their own hijab and the society in large see this as a normal condition. Whereas, when it comes to Islam all voices come against the idea itself. It is quite obvious nowadays that hijab is been fought not only refused in some societies.

          You see seeking knowledge is extremely important , Don’t just accept what you hear but please do search.

          A Woman in Islam Has the Right to Get an Education
          In the words of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW):

          “To seek knowledge is obligatory on every Muslim.”
          (Declared Authentic By Shaikh Muhammad Naasir-ud-Deen Al-Albaani)

          Muslim here meaning male and female Muslims, as women are the twin halves of men. The Prophet (SAW) also said:

          “Whoever follows a way to seek knowledge, Allah will make easy for him a way to paradise.” (Declared Authentic By Shaikh Muhammad Naasir-ud-Deen Al-Albaani)

          A woman in Islam has the right to knowledge and education. Allah (SWT) encourages women to read and keep up the learning process. He also bestows His mercy upon all who seek knowledge, and gives them high status

          • dennis

            You must think we Christians have never read the Koran we can read where it calls for our death and also for our mutilation. Your so called “holy book” speaks of your evil and shows your religion is not peaceful. ANyway actions speak l;ouder than words. You have a violent anti-Christ religion..

          • crystal

            When I lived in Chicago, I joined a Mosque. There are so many different factions of Islam on Chicago’s South Side (where Obama started his political career). As a woman, I felt oppressed. Many of us have read the Qur’an, but there are several injustices in Surah 4. BTW, Christianity also teaches to dress modestly. Ramadan is a hassle – especially if you work for a living. Prayer 5x a day doesn’t fit anyone’s schedule who works for a living. I could see Nomads liking it. Above all of this, regardless of how you defend Islam and quote the Qur’an, it’s presently an enemy of America and Americans better be on the P’s and Q’s.

        • Paul Ruby

          Fatima
          Thank you for that wonderful explanation of Islam! People are ignorant and only believe what they read in blogs or in the news. At one time shortly after 9/11 I was one of those people. I thought Islam must be the devil’s religion becuase of the radicals. But now I have learned more about it and more about Christianity. At one point in history the Christians had gone on a killing spree killing anyone that wasn’t Christian. So they have had their dark past too. It amazes me that Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe in the same God. All have the same basic history and all have teachings that invole Jesus Christ. So how can people hate each other so much simply over what they believe or how they worship God? Catholics and Protestants can’t even agree on how to Worship God.

          ‘The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manner and kindest to his wife.’

          Well said.

          • crystal

            People can hate each other by not listening to one another and learning about one another. I have friends from Lebanon who hate Jews. I have friends who are Christians who hate Muslims. God forbid I tell you the long list of groups Muslim friends of mine hate. Check out how many Universities in America are teaching students to hate America.

        • Ray McDougal

          IT is very interesting to see all the ignorance that is spewed out over a story that is either totally fictional or at least highly distorted, as well as TOTALLY unrelated to Muslims. It is laughable that people will take this story to be true as it is written here. The only way any government personnel could shut down a meeting of this sort is if it violated local laws such as ones regarding parking, noise, or traffic issues. Read the post from the person who was there.

          THINK…How do people control you? Tell twisted stories that get you emotionally involved… and sit back and watch the destruction begin. Has this story been reported anywhere else? How reliable is this source? IS anyone thinking rationally?

          The people who rant and rave here with their ignorance of Islam are so sad and pathetic; they are not Christians at all. “Love one another”? Does that only apply to other Christians? “Turn the other cheek”? Is that congruent with torture and hatred? Does anyone remember something about forgiving seven times seventy times?

          The sad people here who are so easily saying KILLING is justified if the person is not Christian will be judged by GOD < who created all beings> and will be called to account for all of the people responsible for the innocent men, women and children in the middle east who are still being killed, maimed, and tortured by the propaganda such as you read in the writings you see here. Education is a mighty power, and it is the responsibility of every person in a democracy to speak out about the destructive power of hate, ignorance, and greed. It is such ignorance and propaganda that got baby bush into office and led us to the pitiful state of our nation today. People who have such hatred for Muslims have probably never known any Muslims.

          Although being raised in a Southern Baptist church, I have been able to meet and appreciated the goodness and values of many Muslims, who have shown more peaceful and moral attitudes than those expressed here. Reread your Bible, know Jesus, and you will be able to overcome the hatred that will destroy you and our entire country.

        • Brian Rawls

          Ray I dont think I have been claiming to a christian. I do not believe in turning the othyer cheek. I will not be trampled on either. If you like those muslims so much go move to one of those countries and preach that to them. I really think you would get yourself beheaded though. But I forgot so are so peaceful they just might let you live. Bull**.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          When the very tenants of this religion say if someone doesnt think like you, to kill them because they are infidels, then no, sorry, its not a peaceful religion. When you strap bombs to the back of your 8 year old daughter and have her walk onto a bus full of people you dont even know, and blow them all up, no, sorry, not a peacful religion. They only exist now, because way back when, Solomon was told by God to kill all the people he conquered, but he kept a few of the good looking women for himself, and let them keep their false idols and gods, and this is where Islam spawned from. Had Solomon, who was the wisest man in the world, had listed to God, we wouldnt have these Islamic problems today, because they would have been exterminated back then as God had ordered. Now, when Jesus comes again, He himself will exterminate these heathens.

    • http://no Brian Rawls

      I think that anyone who says that islam is peaceful is full of S**t.

      • Stassi

        I think it’s people like you that are the problem. You are no better than those you are comdeming with your hateful thoughts.

        • Brian Rawls

          Why do you think that Im no better? Because I point out the facts. Im not condeming anyone. I have been told that America has the freedom of religion. I agree with this, but not for any religion that is undermining America. And maybe you are right to say im no better than the suicide bombers that I condem. I guess thats mighty great of you to place me in the same catagory. I think its people like you Stassi that has got this country in the shape its in now. @##%UP.

        • Paul Ruby

          Brian Rawls
          Stassi is right. You are no better. You might not be as violent, but you’re no better.
          “I think that anyone who says that islam is peaceful is full of S**t.” Your words sir. Sounds pretty hateful to me. Do you feel bad that so many innocent people died in Bush’s war in Iraq? Or do you not really care because they are Muslim? Sounds to me like you would like to see Islam gone from the earth altogether. I hope you read Fatima’s post. It’s very informative.

          • gary

            Actions speak louder than words!

        • Patricia Henson

          In the first place you would never hear a true follower of Christ vow to kill anyone. They may want to convert them but not kill them. Thou shalt not kill is still one of Gods commandments. There are radical Muslims out there that beleive that anyone not bowing to Allah is to be killed. Take the Jewish people for instance. They want to live peacefully in the land that God himself gave them,even signing treaties with the Palestinians giving up the Gaza Strip to attain peace. Now the Jewish people have rockets fired at them daily, have suicide bombers coming accross blowing up their people, not to mention the arms that are being smuggled in through the tunnels in Gaza. Just today Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas of the Fatah faction spoke,stating”It has been said that we are negotiating for peace but our goal has never been peace.”” Peace is a means the goal is Palestine.” Jerusalem for those who are not familiar. It was further stated that when the time is right,Fatah will fully rejoin the campaign of violence. All of this came from their own mouths so you can’t accuse the so called radicals of making up lies. The Iranians President comes out and says that their goal is to wipe Israel of off the map, along with Big Satan. The U.S. for those who aren’t familiar with that expression. Not very peaceful sounding to me.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Why is Brian the problem when he speaks the truth. It is as he says. And I will add, anyone that says they are a peaceful religion, is an out and out liar, along with being full of s..t.

      • Brian Rawls

        Fatima. Well can you explain to us all why the government that base their laws around Islam stone these females for taking off their hijab? Why do these Muslims suicide bomb? You seem to leave all this out. I dont except the idea of radical Islam. Because if it was just radicals doing wrong on the behalf of Islam the people should have put a stop to it long ago. It is just in the muslim culture and I take it that you live here in America. This just proves my point. If you were speaking out in outrage over there you would have had your head cut off by now. For the simple fack that you opened your mouth to a male. I hope that you are thanking Muhammad that you live here.

        • Paul Ruby

          Ever hear of the Salem witch trials? The Christian laws once burned people alive because someone said that they were a witch.

        • Brian Rawls

          I did not think you would reply back to me on that one either.

        • Paul Ruby

          Dear Brian Rawls
          I’m glad you pointed out that the purpose of war is to kill people. I had always thought it was show power and strength and show how greedy you are and jelouse that someone has something you don’t. But now I know, it’s to kill people. So Bush wanted to kill people and that’s why we went to war in Iraq. It wasn’t to protect ourselves, it wasn’t for oil, it wasn’t to spread democracy like he said. He simply wanted to flex his muscles and kill people. You know that’s kinda what I had been thinking all along he just wanted to kill off Muslims, but for as much I dislike Bush, I never would imagine that any President would want to kill people just for the fun of it. I’m glad you set me straight.
          So you feel that all the civilians that died in Iraq had it comming? The kids that died or lost their parents. They had it comming simply because they are scum bags. They are Muslims right? So what, right? They don’t matter as much as we do, right? Their lives are worthless, right? They are scum. Just like Hitler told the people of Germany about the Jews. Everything that was wrong in Germany and the world was all because of the Jews. Even the peacful store owner. It was his fault Germany lost WWI, Right. The Jews deserived to die simply because they were Jewish and they were scum. The same as the Muslims of today. They have all the oil and make us pay for it. How dare they? Scum bags, death to all Muslims! Leave them in ruins, make them all suffer for the crimes of a few radicals. We are Christian! We are the only ones that matter. We are right they are wrong! We are God’s people and God hates Muslims just as much as we do. Is that right Mr. Rawls?
          You are concerned about your rights but don’t give a flying fig about anyone that is different than you. You sir are the kind of person that causes war.

        • Brian Rawls

          Give me a break Paul. I said people die in war. That is why it is called war. You are just trying to avoid what Im saying by making me out to be the bad guy. You are just like the scum we have in office right now. I bet you are related to Barney Frank in some way. LOL!!!!! Im sorry you feel the way you do Paul.

        • Paul Ruby

          “And Paul, people die in war thats the purpose of it.”

          Sir, the words above are yours. You said it. “People die in war that’s the purpose of it.”

          Do you feel a Muslim’s life is less important than your own? I’m not talking about the suicide bomber. I think we do all agree that the suicide bombers are bad people and should be delt with in harsh ways because they do not have the same respect for human life and differnant cultures like we do. I’m talking about the guy in Iraq or Iran that gets up in morning, goes to work and provides for his family. His loves his family more than anything. Is his life less important than yours because he is a Muslim and you are a Christian?

        • http://www.dawah4all.webs.com Fatima

          There are “so called” muslim countries these days. There is nothing such as an “Islamic state” there are acts i see which are really against the teaching of Islam. Lets say a country where the womenfolk are not allowed to get out and get education for themselves and they call themselves a Muslim country where as Islam prescribes education for both male and female. Then let’s say a muslim country that allows the selling of alcohol and has discos and stuff. Im not completely belitting all such muslim countries but my point is they arent “perfect” and hence whatever hypocrisies that one sees in such countries cant be blamed on the religion.

          was it “ever” practiced according to the rules in the Quran? Sure, during the time of the prophet (sallalahu alayi wassalam) and then during the rule of the four caliphs after the prophet.
          So you see what’s happening -again I’ll repeat has nothing to do with the Islamic teaching. Everything you’ve said are acts that are condenm according to Islamic Law.
          People were created with their choices. women can choose to wear the Hijab or not, The creator will deal with these people , killing them is WRONG WRONG WRONG.
          The so-call Muslim countries are not praticing Islam as they should. So until then you will continue to see heinous actions unfortunately done by those who call themselves Muslim but yet have no Idea what Islam means.

          Please stop listening for a moment and seek Islamic knowledge. I was once in your shoes, I took it upon myself to search the truth about Islam and Guess what I’m a Muslim.

          The 1st verse which was revealed was ” READ……… Therefore I’m encourage you to do the same.

        • http://www.dawah4all.webs.com Fatima

          Reply:

          July 15th, 2009 at 4:31 pm

          There are “so called” muslim countries these days. There is nothing such as an “Islamic state” there are acts i see which are really against the teaching of Islam. Lets say a country where the womenfolk are not allowed to get out and get education for themselves and they call themselves a Muslim country where as Islam prescribes education for both male and female. Then let’s say a muslim country that allows the selling of alcohol and has discos and stuff. Im not completely belitting all such muslim countries but my point is they arent “perfect” and hence whatever hypocrisies that one sees in such countries cant be blamed on the religion.

          was it “ever” practiced according to the rules in the Quran? Sure, during the time of the prophet (sallalahu alayi wassalam) and then during the rule of the four caliphs after the prophet.
          So you see what’s happening -again I’ll repeat has nothing to do with the Islamic teaching. Everything you’ve said are acts that are condenm according to Islamic Law.
          People were created with their choices. women can choose to wear the Hijab or not, The creator will deal with these people , killing them is WRONG WRONG WRONG.
          The so-call Muslim countries are not praticing Islam as they should. So until then you will continue to see heinous actions unfortunately done by those who call themselves Muslim but yet have no Idea what Islam means.

          Please stop listening for a moment and seek Islamic knowledge. I was once in your shoes, I took it upon myself to search the truth about Islam and Guess what I’m a Muslim.

          The 1st verse which was revealed was ” READ……… Therefore I’m encourage you to do the same.

        • Brian Rawls

          Tell me did you convert afterwards? What religous faith were you before if any?

      • keith

        YAH DAMN RIGHT,i was in beirut in 83 with the corps and i saw what demonized nut jobs they are! screw mohhammad or whatever the frick his name was,you can take your koran and use it for ass wipe paper as thats all it’s good for! you don’t see christians strapping on blast vests or putting them on some brainwashed kid and sending them out to blow themselves to smithereens along with some innoscent people or chopping the heads off whoever they can or threatening to blow isriael of the map or setting off car bombs outside of some market where women and children are.peaceful my ass! your all a bunch of deluded nutjobs,when your not blowing up someones elses country you people blow your own country up.what a bunch of loons!!!!

        • Paul Ruby

          Have you ever studied the history of the Middle East? I assume not. If you had you might actually understand why the people over there hate us so much. We have been medling around in their business for decades. We set up pupet rulers, exploited them for their oil, and turned our back on them when they offered to help. Did you know that after 9/11 Iran offered to help the US find Osama Bin Ladin? They told us, you’re bombing in the wrong place. We had no clue what we were doing. ( Bush and Rumsfeld no wonder) But Iran told us where to bomb, but then the Bush called them the axis of evil. They were willing to help! But Bush called them evil! That was after they offered to help. Talk about a nut case. The whole relationship between the US Iran and the middle East could have been different by now if Bush would of let them help us find Osama. They hate him too. But Bush called them evil! Why? I could guess that he never had intensions of getting Osama. He needed the threat of Osama out there to keep you Neocon bible hugging people scared. He needed that threat to pursue his war in Iraq. If we would have captured Osama in the first few months the threat wouldn’t have been as great and he’d have no reason to invade Iraq. Luckily Bush’s planned to take over the middle East and set up puppet governments didn’t get very far. Iraq was not the cake walk he thought it was going to be. He didn’t understand the resolve of the Iraqi people not to be lead around by the US. Even now the government Bush helped create on Iraq is telling us to get out. If things had gone the way Bush and Cheney wanted Iran would have been next, then syria, and so on and so on until we got to China. Just do a google serach for the New American Century. A lot can be explained there and it was written before we even went to war in Iraq.

        • Brian Rawls

          All these people are crazy. Just another bunch of tree hugging weirdos who just want to blame Bush for everything. And Paul, people die in war thats the purpose of it. And all those scum bags that did die had it comming. And no they dont have the same views in our god. You are foolish if you take that stance on things. There are a few things I dont agree with that Bush has done. First of all after we finished bombing them scum bags we should have not rebuilt anything. Second we should have just taken the oil for ourselves. Taken enough to pay for the whole damn war and balance the budget. And after was all said and done leave the place in ruins.

        • Brian Rawls

          Yeah i have heard of the witch trials. I am also aware that this took place over a hundred years ago out of ignorance. What excuse do you have for the Muslims doing this brutal stuff today. You just laid it out that they must be pretty stupid by that comment.

        • Brian Rawls

          If their people would wise up we wouldnt have to go over there and kick tail all the time.

        • http://www.dawah4all.webs.com Fatima

          God has given each and everyone intellect. If human could just use it wisely. A fact that no one- no one can denied is on the last day we will all come to which of us is in manifest error.

          I again would invite people to pick a Qu’ran and sit with someone who clearly understands the meanings then and only then you would see the beauty of Al-Islam. The way of life that God(Allah) has perfected for mankind.
          May the Creator guides

          Peace.

        • Brian Rawls

          Fatima, things are just not that easy. People see everything that is bad in the middle east. It is hard to imagine why the people would allow that to go on over there.

        • Dickie

          Keith,You are so right,The losers that listern to this mulsum crap,Is no more smarther,Than these aminals are,If a person can read,All you have to do is buy one of those cheap books, THE EVERYTHING KORAN BOOK,by Duaa Anwar. I bought this crap to try to understand these people,When my son went to iraq,And the wat I understand this guy muhammad,Was no more than a womanizer,FAG,& Most of all he was a conman,That sold crap for this rich woman,He could sell camel s–t to anybody at a deal.That is why they find lossers,To blow up innocent babies,old men,&women,They hide behind children,get in their own mosque,& hid like snakes under a rock,They are cowards,& parasites to the world,They get illiterate people that can’t read or wright,And promise them the world,I just have never seen or hard any of these lossers come back to tell of his wealth,or women,That is why these cowards steal the children from their parent’s & brain wash them at young age’s,They are snakes,& cowards to kill their own self’s,So they scare old people,To do their cowardly deeds,And keep the out side world from them,To see how beautiful it really is,When you are really ignorant,And weak enough to believe the only media,That tell’s you lies,& half truth’s kinda like CBS,NBC,ABC,MSNBC,NEW YORK TIME’S,The peoplsi,boxer’s,L.A.’s PAPER,You know our goverment media.So read this crap book,It nothing like the Christian BIBLE, Thank You for being one of AMERICA’S HERO’S,I just wish some of these creeps knew what we have they damn well don’t deserve liveing here,Let the trash live there for 1-yr,And don’t be let back in, They would kiss the ground of AMERICA when they returned.

        • Dickie

          OH, KEITH I almost forgot, The damn BIGGEST LIER’S OF ALL TIME,NEXT TO NY TIMES–[ CNN ]. How in the hell could have missed them,They are the greatest. Of LIES.

    • Dena Schroeter

      Jeff,
      All religions are foolish? How can you say that? If you are a Christian and you are calling all religions foolish, not only are you mocking your own faith but you are mocking Jesus Christ and mocking HIS ministry that He is trying to teach the whole world. God will not be mocked…by anyone. You should change that statement.

      • http://Personellibertydigest Jeff Barker

        Christianity is not a religion. It’s a way of life.

        • Patricia Henson

          How wrong you are. Christianity is a religion. God himself sent Jesus Christ into the world to basically save us from ourselves. He in his infanite wisdom seen how weak the flesh is and sent his son into the world and all we have to do is beleive and trust in him to be saved. One of the basic laws are; Thou shalt not kill but religions like Islam says to kill anyone who doesn’t accept Allah as his God. I read in an earlier comment that the life and property of all citizens in an Islamic state are considered sacred whether a person is a Muslim or not. I don’t understand how you can make that statement and then turn around and want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. She stated that there is no racism but then I hear Muslims call the Jewish people dogs and pigs. How does that jibe? Now having said that, I don’t beleiv that all Muslims are evil. I don’t beleive that all of one race or religion are bad just like we have bad Christians there are just bad people who claim to be Christians. I beleive in theGod of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob and am very glad that he sent his son to save me. He loves me when I am unlovable. Thank- you God!

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest PrincessDI

          There is no such thing as religions they are all bull and each tries to have more power than the others. Even Christianity has different denominations and doctrine. It is all bull. There is only one GOD and His son Jesus that died for us. He gave the ten commandments to try to live by. And either you believe in GOD and Jesus and the ten commandments or you don’t. It is that simple and all the rest is made up by man for power over people.

      • keith

        not to argue,but jesus is NOT a religion,he just is and religion is just mans attempt at rationilizing him and god.we would be much better off if their were NO religions at all and just one faith in jesus christ,period!

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      And also, I for one would like to know how crap like this can even been considered, when places like the University of North Carolina mandates that some students in their courses have to read the Koran, thats right, forced to read the Koran, so they can be “tolerant” of muslims and their beliefs. What the crap is going on around here? Are we that desirous of kicking God totally out of the country so we can fall a little quicker. Unbelievable, and we all know that this is the work of the left wing liberal pacifist appeasing pants wetting democratic party, who currently is under the bonds of Satan big time. They believe in everything that is anti-God. They believe in murdering innocent babies. They believe in elevation of the gay lifestyle. They believe in kicking Christianity out, as witness by Obama stating to our muslim enemies that “we are not a Christian nation”. Yeah, thats right, the guy said that. These guys not only should be removed from office, but kicked out of the country. Everything they do stands for our demise as a Christian democracy. They want a muslim socialism instead. They are a dangerous lot. Wake up America. Please wake up.

      • Ralph Krueger

        I am absolutely amazed that this would happen in San Diego County. I used to live there and it is solidly Republican who all believe that Reagon invented all that is good in the world. The only place more reactionary than San Diego County is Orange County just north of it.

        • Rutledge St. George

          I have, never before in my life, read such hateful rhetoric, from the uninformed as on this site. If your product is exclusive and great, then why do you, and those of your faith always trying to sell it. Remember, if it is good, it does not need a salesman.

        • William

          Rutledge St. George, it looks as if you have never been in a Christian Church. I woluld doubt very seriously if you’ve even read much religious material including the bible or the koran. Please don’t call me uninformed, I have traveled the entire world for the past 31 years and I have seen all religions in their actual practice. To call religion a product only goes to prove that all your doing is running off at the mouth. You need to shut your mouth and do more reading and research, then you might be able to make a statement that makes more sense.

        • Donna

          Just another example of the government trying to run your life. Yeah, these people should’ve slammed the door and said, get the hell off my property. It’s none of your damn business what I do in my home. Our officials need to do the job we hired them to do, or get out. There are more serious problems in this country besides someone having a bible study in their own home.

        • Patricia Henson

          I’m not surprized at anything government does these days. I used to live there too and know that it is full of military bases. The govrnment may leave the private sector alone for now but has just issued orders saying that the miltary chaplins can’t pray using the words Jesus Christ. The Muslim faction finds it offensive and they are not to do it. They are subject to court-marshal and prison time. When they are dishonorably discharged they will lose their pensions. It has happened to at least one chaplin already. Every religion under the sun is protected except Christianity even though our laws were created from Judeo- Christian princibles. It’s a sad day in America folks.

      • James

        Mark, I agree, the Founding Fathers were all Christians – 2 were Roman Catholic, and the rest were Protestant. Jesus said: “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you” (John 15:18-19). But, our nation is a Republic, not a Democracy (U.S. Const., Art. IV, Sec.4), a Republican Government only has limited enumerated powers.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Rutledge St.George – you are so mistaken. Why do you think Budweiser and Miller are #1 and #2 in the world? Because of advertising. What is advertising – salesman. Falstaff used to be # 3 and fired all their salesman and cancelled all their advertising. They arent around anymore. The same guy bought Pabst, who used to be #4 in the world. He fired all the salesmans and cancelled all the advertising. Bye bye. They are gone. If GM stops advertising its cars, bye bye, they are gone without salesman. All good successful business are gone without salesman. A good product does not sell itself, other that for a short burst and then its gone because no one hears of it anymore, so your claim is not only off base, it is a total lie. But, you know, God shouldnt need a salesman. Look around. Look at the mountains and the seas and the skies. His hand is magnificent. Yet you reject it, because maybe someone hasnt told you about it, and your not smart enough to connect the dots, that God made all this.

      • keith

        we ARE in the VERY last days and as jesus stated crap like this is going to take place and it is going to get MUCH worse.we have’nt seen anything yet! yeah,it aggravates me to no end to hear and witness such non-sense,but then again i am getting rather excited cause all these things going on points out in screaming clarity we are near the end.let these fools go on,they won’t be laughing and having a grand time during the tribulation period! there all going to be sucked into the anti-christs b.s and all i can say is,they’ll find out what utter stupid fools they were! it’s coming folks! AND SOON!

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest PrincessDI

        Univerities do not educate any more they only brain wash into their way of thinking (Socialism and Communism) and are intollerant to any student that has the brains to think differently.

  • http://no Brian Rawls

    If this dont prove that all these elected people that we have are tyranical I dont know what would. Everyone had had anything to do with this should be dunked in tar and rolled in feathers and ran out of this country.

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      Count me in, Ill help, and Ill do it in the name of Jesus Christ.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest PrincessDI

        I agree. They do not deserve to be American citizens when they do not honor our constition.

  • s c

    This was a test. Every constitutional freedom is under attack. The victims of this outrage owe it to themselves and America to track down and name the instigators of this insanity. Publish all of those names, put that information on the internet, and
    verify their political and ‘religious’ affiliations. From time to time, events like this will occur. People need to be on their guard all the time. As long as there are people who hate freedom, disgusting events like this will not stop. Remember, not too long ago, most Americans would not believe that politicians would dare to kick God out of
    school(s). They would have told you that abortion will never be a ‘right.’ And, they would also tell you that we will never have an anti-American president.

    • Paul Trood

      Well said.

    • William

      s.c., I’ll tell you who they are. The list follows:
      1. Barack Obama
      2. Michelle Obama
      3. Bill Clinton
      4. Hillary Clinton
      5. Nancy Pelosi
      6. CNN
      7. CBS
      9. MSNBC
      10.ABC

      I could go on but, just look for all those that call themselves Progressives and push for the Progressive Agenda. The modern term is Progressive Democratic Socialist. Barack Obama is not a natural born United States Citizen and many tried to prove that but, our United States Supreme Court did not have a real man or woman sitting that had the guts to challenge that fact. You can also look to the ACLU, NAACP and other un-american groups for tearing down the moral fiber of this country.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        You forgot Joe Biden, Ted Kennedy, Harry Reid, Barbara Boxer, Chris Dodd, Dennis Kucinich, Barney Frank, Tom Daschle, Dianne Feinstein, Robert Byrd, Evan Bayh, NBC, John Kerry, John Edwards, Rham Emmanual and dont forget Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. These are basically all the same blind guy.

        • Dickie

          Mark ,You forgot the most important one THE QUEEN OF LIES & DECENT, nancey pelosi. I hope you don’t mind helping you with a little over sight,

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Dickie, she was allready on the list I added to. But if I missed her, I did need to be let known about it. She definately is the Queen of lies and dissent.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest PrincessDI

        What ever happened to the court case trial that is suppose to have started already by the group that was suing him to produce his real birth certificate.

        I heard weeks ago that the trail was starting- the judge would not dismiss it but nothing has been in the news of what is going on with the trial.

        Does anyone know?

  • John

    I would like to know what happened to the official who came to the door and issued the citation.
    As for the comments about Muslims, I may not agree with what the stand for or who they believe in, but we are in the United States of America where freedom of ANY religion should be respected. As a Christian, this is the best example we can show to other Americans. Be a light to the world, show love and earn the respect of Muslims and you’d be shocked how Our God can move and change hearts of Muslims.

    Read about a Real Terrorist’s True Story and Conversion to Christianity.
    http://kamalsaleem.com/ his name is Kamal Saleem (google him if this gets blocked)

    • DaveH

      I agree John. I am atheist, but I believe strictly in freedom of religion. Religious people aren’t perfect (no one is) but at least they’re trying to be good and that is more than I can say about a lot of liberals.
      I think what we have here is an attempt by big-government lovers to stifle their competition for power. It happened in USSR, and in China, and probably many more countries of which I am not aware.
      Religious people and others (like myself) who love freedom need to get together and stop the growth of these liberal authoritarians before they reach critical mass and can’t be stopped.

      • debra

        Dave..if you are atheist..what do you think happens when you die? Do you have a soul? When you need help and comforting who/what do you turn to if you dont pray to God? Im not trying to be funny..I really want to know/understand. DeBra

        • DaveH

          Debra,
          I was raised Catholic. I do believe in most of the morality of religion (except those things that only harm ourselves). I just don’t believe there is a supreme being. I think god was created by leaders as a way to control the masses. Believe me when I say I have spent a large portion of my life debating the existence of god with staunchly religious friends. I never initiate the debate, as I gain nothing by weakening other peoples beliefs. I have no interest in converting anyone, as it is damn scary to know that someday I will cease to exist. But I do accept that fate, as there is not much I can do about it.
          That being said, you can imagine how I feel about the nuts that are blowing people up in the name of their religion. We have only a short time to live on this earth, and they are willing to kill others for things they don’t even know exist.
          Most religious people are willing to live alongside those that don’t share their beliefs, and I applaud those people.

    • MW

      I too would like to know what happened to the official that came to their door. He or she should be fired immediately for attempting to intimidate these law abiding people.

  • Mike51

    We The People of this nation must be on our guard and fight governmental corruption on every level federal, state as well as local. Every attack on our rights needs to be put on the internet for all to see so the people being attacked can get help from liberty minded people, we must support and back each other up. Yes people this is a war it is a battle where the lines have already been drawn in the sand. The days of running your life using common sense and people leaving you alone to run you life are over. Everyday someplace in this country, an attack on our life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is under attack and we must all be on guard to defend not only our rights from this attack but our neighbors rights also. It is one of those “I’ll watch your back and you watch my back scenario’s”. That is going to be the only way to defend each other from having all of our Constitutional rights wiped out.

    • James

      Mike51, I agree, the Bill of Rights was a restriction the Founders placed upon the federal government, but it isn’t self-enforcing. Rights are inalienable, that is, they aren’t dependent on a piece of paper for their existence, or for their protection. In the end, rights must be defended by personal, physical effort with like-minded patriots. The Bill of Rights begins with “Congress shall make no law…”, but what if they ignore that…?

  • Tom Schafer

    County Chief Administrative Officer Walt Ekard should be Fired! not just have the door slammed in his face, He is a low life Bureaucrat, who is not elected! The Constitution is under Fire again!

    • James

      Tom S., I agree, Walt Ekard should be fired, but he didn’t violate the U.S. Constitution, he violated the inherent right of individuals to assemble and worship. The powers delegated to the federal government (U.S. Const., Art. I, Sec. 8) did not include religion. To assure that didn’t happen, the Bill of Rights states: “Congress shall make no law respecting…religion…or abridging…the right of the people peaceably to assemble” and Congress has never violated that. The law which Pastor Jones violated was a county ordinance which could only have violated the California State Constitution – if it contains a section which prohibits such laws – and it does (Art. I, Sec. 4) reads: “Free exercise and enjoyment of religion without discrimination or preference are guaranteed…The Legislature shall make no law respecting an establishment of religiion.” Thus the county ordinance could well have been in violation of its own state’s constitution. But in the end, rights must be protected by their possessors.

      • Tom Schafer

        They violated more than one part of the constitution.
        We must always guard our freedoms!

        Bureaucrats will always build their fiefdoms on those they are supposed to serve.

        The Constitution is incredibly important, because it acknowledges that the
        Creator gives rights to men, who then loan the rights to the Government.
        The Constitution eloquently states, the Creator comes first, then man and then the Government that man created.

        The American Constitution:
        “Our constitution is a document that protects the people from government.”
        Ronald Reagan

        • James

          Tom S., by “the constitution” do you mean the U.S. Constitution? While I agree that our Creator is the ultimate source of our rights, I disagree that they were “loaned” to the Government – especially the federal government. President Reagan’s statement, that it “protects the people from government meant the federal government. No state law has ever been held violative of the Bill of Rights.

        • James

          Tom S., your statement: “They violated more than one part of the constitution” seems to say, by “they,” that state governments are bound by the U.S. Constitution as well as the federal government. Is that your contention?

  • Pat

    If the Pastor lived in a small subdivision and had about 10-15 cars parked outside on a weekly basis- for any reason- not just Bible study,it might upset those neighbors who lived near them.
    The traffic concern might have been a problem for complaint, not what the people were doing in the home.
    The questions they were asked were intrusive.

  • Dena Schroeter

    I would like to know how county officials found out about the bible study in the Pastors home anyway. Is this the beginning age of the government invading our homes now? We have no privacy in our homes? We have no freedom of speech, freedom of prayer in our own homes? I blame the current president for this. This is truly the beginning of end times. The president already has taken over the economy by printing so much money its thrown this economy into a tailspin. He has sold our freedom by giving in to terrorist countries. He has ruined our health care system, our auto industry, has unemployed 6.5 million people in less than 3 months of his term. Now he is trying to take our religion away from us. Christians everywhere need to stand up and demand that God be put back in to our government and our government needs to start praying themselves that God will not ignore them and this country. The whole country was founded and based upon Christian beliefs and the belief in God!
    I know I probably sound radical or something like that, but I’m not. I just have belief and faith and trust in my God and His Son Jesus Christ. I love my country and I am very sad as to what she is becoming (Socialist, because of Obama), and it just seems that the more and more illegals and foreingers that come into this country, end up changing our laws and constitution. We as Christians have every right to pray and hold bible studies in the privacy of our own homes just as the same sex relationships think they have a right to get married.

    • John E.

      Thank You Dena S. Praise You and your familyNo one should be diatated on where & when to pray or read the Holy Books I can not understand it the oldest books of bible are online. And yet this Califorina Community banning the right to pray.God Bless You.

    • Stassi

      OMG! You have no clue about how the government works do you? The current President hasn’t done much of anything yet except get a stimuliss bill passed which has given me personally some work to stay employeed.
      The auto industry failure has nothing to do with the President. They failed because they are greedy over paid live for the moment fools in the upper managment postions. They rode the wave of the SUV and didn’t plan for the future and high gas prices. The banks failed and people could no longer get credit to buy a new car.
      Remember the annoucment of the banking crisis came in Sept. 2008. The current President wasn’t President then. We had a christian wacko in office then named GW Bush.
      Bush broke into your private lives with illegal wire tapping. He expanded the government and spent foolishly on a war for no good reason other than he felt in order to be commander in cheif he had to have a war. There were no WMD found in Iraq, and no link to Alquada. (sic) The war was a waste of money spent on a forgiegn country. But when Obama comes to office and wants to spend money on Americans everyone crys foul! Why is it so wrong to spend money on Americans but not on Iraq? Why do you hate your fellow Americans? The problems this country faces were created during the Bush, Clinton, and Bush years, But yet you expect a new President to solve it all in 4 months time. It’s like getting fat. You gain wait over years and years of not eating right, you can’t then lose it in a week.
      And, it not only takes a President to run the country it takes congress. If you change the president but keep congress what will change? You need to vote against the incumbaint congress. Do we really need people there serving 30 -50 years? NOOOOOOO. But I assume that it’s people like you that vote the same people in because you vote based on party and not on person.
      Lastly, you are right, you do have the right to pray and worship. Just like Muslims, Hindo’s and satin worshipers. But somehow I feel that you think those people probably don’t have a right to pray just like you feel the homesexuals don’t have the right to marry. Do you know and homosexuals? You may find this hard to believe but most are just normal people, they go to work, worry about bills and family, and live the same as you. They just find their same sex more attractive.
      Get out of your bubble and expirence life and learn. Maybe then you will learn the Jesus taught us to love everyone no matter what.

      • shane

        um. Clinton started wire tapping. Was called Echelon. read a book.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        But you do need to get your facts straight though. You see, the banks collapsed, due to Bill Clinton setting up this thing called Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, where everybody could have the American dream of owning a house. You see, it used to be, say a guy making $5.00 an hour would walk into a bank, and ask for a loan of, well, lets say $150,000.00. The bank would tell him to get out and laugh at him, and right fully so. There aint no way this guy could ever pay this back. Enter one Bill Clinton. He tells the banks to lend money to anyone, and the Federal Government will back it with this Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac funds, so that everyone can have the American dream of owning a home. So the banks make all these loans to people that didnt have a snowballs chance in hell of paying it back. Things started looking out of balance with this thing, so the Bush administration called for an investigation to check it out, 2 year before the collapse. But see, Bill Clinton set this up, with top ranking democrat named Barney Frank as the head of the so called “Oversight Committee”. Barney shut down any type of investigation, saying everything was ok and none was needed. In the meantime, top ranking democrats Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick, who were running this thing, were giving out million dollar bonuses to themselves and their democrat friends like a drunkard at a keg party. By the way, those 3 should be in jail for this. So pretty soon this thing got so big, they drained all the funds, and collapsed some of the biggest banks and mortgage companies out there. All democrats, from the inception, to the protection of it, to the sinking of it. So you are in complete error to even try to point your little leftie finger at Bush, so knock it off. Enough with your lies. As far as the auto makers, its not Bush or Obama’s fault where they are, you have part of it right, about the greed at the top, but there was also quite a bit of greed with the UAW, and GM sold themselves down the road with their stupid contracts with these guys to appease them. Ever worked in a union shop like this? I have, for 13 years. What a joke. Guys walking around all day doing nothing, saying its not my job, as the company is losings thousands of dollars, because some lazy bastard union shit wont shut down the line that is putting out bad parts, because “its not his job”. What the hell happened to caring about the quality of the product you make? Why do you think the Japanese care makers are kicking our ass? Why? Because we taught them to build a quality product, with quality parts and to take pride in what they make, and hey guess what? They listened. Yeah, they listened man. Look at the success they have. Quality. Giving a shit about what you do. Unions dont have it brother, been there, lived it, breathed it, hated it. No more. But I do hold Obama responsible for giving these low life auto makers billions of dollars, when they have proven they dont know how to properly run a business. If they did, first thing they would have done was kick the biggest problem out, the union. How you lefties drag Bush into everything that is wrong just astounds me, especially when you do it with no evidence at all, just words heard on ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN and MSNBC. It amazes me to this day how people can blindly believe gossip they hear on TV. Wire tapping. After 9-11, I welcome the government to tape every phone call I ever make from here to eternity, you know why? I aint got nothing to hide. Why should I care if they hear me tell my wife I love her. Why should I care if they hear me make golf or fishing plans. I could care less. If they are going to catch some terrorist 2 miles away with it, hey Im all for it. Im all for them going door to door and ask for green cards, and if you aint got one, your outta here. Im all for the government funding for that. Whats the problem, you got something to hide pal? You squeamish or what? You call those 1-900 numbers all the time and dont want to be found out? I dont get the fear of this, but then again, Ive got nothing to hide. Im proud of the way I live and the people I know and the things I do. I could care less if the whole world knew. Big deal. Ok, now WMD’S. Well, seems to me, before George W. Bush was even a candidate for president of these fine United States, I watched TV and I seen Bill Clinton yelling from the mountain tops how Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and had to be stopped. I remembered seeing Hillary on TV doing the same thing. Later I heard John Kerry, and Ted Kennedy, and Howard Dean, and Tom Daschle all say the same things. Seems they were getting the same intelligence reports that Mr. Bush got later. Yet they all stood there later, and after yelling this from the mountain top about WMD’s, they all said Bush lied about them. What? What the hell is this? Is America really that stupid that no one heard these guys claiming all this, then heard them 2 years later accuse Bush of lying about them. Baloney. Pure Baloney pal. I for one paid attention, but then again, I choose to educate myself about this stuff and not blindly follow ABC,NBC,CBS,CNN AND MSNBC, the propaganda machines of the democratic party. I have stated my case with facts, while you spew out your lying left wing liberal hate opinion, and opinions are like assholes, everyones got one. And as far as the cost of the war, I would gladly spend a billion dollars to free millions of my fellow human beings on this earth. Women and children now walk freely and go to school. They are in the market place. Men can walk free and not in fear, and it is getting better all the time, but our left wing news media wont let us know that. I get it from the horses mouse, with weekly communication with guys over there, who tell me a totally different story than our bastard news agencies. You bastards want us to lose so you cant point the finger at Bush and the republicans, and empower the democratic party, and it didnt happen, and its not going to happen, and shame on all of you for wanting America to fail so you could point your evil little fingers. Shame on you. You rotten bastards. How dare you. And you want to talk bad about Bush. You have a lot of reckoning to do my friend. About congress and term limits, yippie cay yea, we finally agree on something. These lifetime guys have got to go. Amen to that brother. The homo thing. Well, I dont agree with their lifestyle, I know its wrong in the Lords eyes, but I treat all men and women the same. My brother in law turned gay. No problem. Thats all, Im out. Have a good day.

        • John

          Mark, thanks for stating the FACTS.

        • DixieConnie

          Mark:

          WOW !!!!!

        • Ralph Krueger

          My, my, Mark, you must be frightfully young or very insulated from reality. Fannie Mae is older than President Clinton and was 8 years old when Clinton was born. Freddie Mac does not make loans but buys loans after others have made them.

          The real culprit are the unscrupulous mortgage brokers & investment bankers (you know, the banks that don’t say hello unless you have more than $4 million in your account) who made fortunes by making loans to everybody because they knew that by the time the loans defaulted they would have unloaded them on someone else.

          The story about the Democrats and Clinton forcing the poor downtrodden bankers to loan money to anyone who has a pulse is canard widely published by Republicans and ranks in veracity right up there with “the check is in the mail”

        • BSES

          Bill Clinton signed the Bill that required the banks to loan money to just about anyone and Barney Frank scoffed when testimony was presented that warned of the dire situation we were heading for long before it happened saying that everything was fine. The banks were greedy, too, but the truth is the truth.

        • David G. From Michigan

          Hey Mark.What an ASS you just made yourself look like.If you hate the union that much,then give them back your PENSION that you get,if you get one.If General Motors had their way they would only be paying everybody around .50 to maybe $2.00 an hour.When i hired in,my plant was flity and hot as hell in there with no fans so that you could breath.Sure you had some assholes that walked around all day with out doing anything,that’s not the unions fault,that’s General Motors.They should have made sure that those people were doing something useful for the company.Sure the Uion is not perfect,even you,you mindless bigot.It was mostly upper managements fault for not listening to the people about what kind of cars and trucks that we wanted.When i was working,i always did my very best that i could do and i only had one supervisor in 30 years that said that i didn’t.Most of the people that i worked with about 98% of the time did good work.Most likely you were one of them walking around all day with nothing to do but complain about your fellow workers.When we had our PPH days,and General Motors want us to let them go,but we said only if they didn’t get their BID BONUSES and not RAISE the price of cars.What did they do anyway.They would screw you in a heartbeat if you wasn’t careful.I had a supervisor so pissed off at me because i was throwing out bad parts like crazy.He was really mad as hell because i went over his head and talked to his boss.If you don’t like what the union has done for you after all these years,then give them back there money to the union and General Motors.They will gladly take it back.Sure the union got a little to big for there britches at times,but about 99.9% of the problems were with management.
          David-Michigan

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          To David in Michigan. No, I was the guy that was told to slow down that I was making the other guys look bad. Yeah, thats right. Me and a couple of other guys were threatened with calling in the union steward on us, because if we worked and earned our money then the company would want everyone to have to work. That is how it was. I was there, you werent. You are correct about the corporate greed, and I agree totally that this was a big part of the problem. But labor unions, though in the beginning a good idea, have become nothing more than a refuge for guys that cant be fired. Dont tell me it was GM’s fault for these guys standing around doing nothing. You cant fire them. Excessive absenteism and throwing the first punch in a fight were the only offenses deemed worthy of being fired. Stealing wasnt, falsifying a time card wasnt, damaging property wasnt. Yeah they would get fired, then the union would go to bat and 3 weeks later they were re-instated with back pay. So no, I told the facts, and you are the ass for trying to tell me it wasnt so. You werent there, I was. Both the company and the union added to the problem. Greed on both sides. However, I do agree again on another point. This company agreed to these guys pensions, they should be forced to pay what these guys earned, absolutely without a doubt. Its the current workers that should bear the brunt, not those who have allready earned what was contracted to them. It is bullshit that they can get away with touching these guys pensions. It is criminal that they are allowed to take away what these guys have allready earned. I totally agree with you on that.

        • James

          Mark, Fannie Mae was created by Congress in 1938, in the Franklin D. Roosevelt era, and Freddie Mac was likewise created by Congress in 1970, under the Nixon administration. President Clinton pressured Congress to relax the requirements that prospective home buyers must meet (have a job, a good credit rating, and a certain amount of income), then President Bush did likewise. This, coupled with decades of inflation, set up the housing market for the collapse that occurred. Now, with the federal government owning Freddie Mae and Freddie Mac, over half of all mortgage payments go to the U.S. Treasury, or to a bank now owned by the feds. The reason for the collapse of our economy, we are seeing, is because almost all businesses and individuals were operating on credit, with no cash reserves, and when sales dropped and jobs were lost they were bankrupt. This is a repeat of the Great Depression. When FDR took office in 1933, 25% of Americans were unemployed and all federal banks were closed. After all of FDR’s socialist programs (6 of which were held to be unconstitutional), 20% were still unemployed in 1940.

      • Holly

        Your ignorance is abundantly clear by your post. Where does one start to refute your Liberal diatribe? It is obvious that your information comes from the left wing, state owned, main stream press. They have an agenda, and to prove it one only has to listen to the what they say and write. They use the same coin words, as it is being fed to them. If you have a brain, you can see through history how other dictators and socialists have taken over by capturing the media. It’s happening before our eyes and to us right now.
        The banking crisis…, you should do a little investigating into George Soros and his actions, mainly his withdrawals from the banking system and when. (Bush broke into your private lives with illegal wire tapping) Oh please, he kept us safe since 9/11. Wire tapping, Is this a problem for you? I have noting to hide, do you? WMD’s? They did find the remnants of Yellow Cake which is WMD. Obama is a Socialist. We are not a Socialist country and we don’t need a Socialist running it.
        The one true thing you said is, we need to vote out incumbents in the Congress and Senate. Vote on term limits. It is the way it was supposed to be. And for goodness sake, they have to stop being allowed to vote themselves raises and perks! We should only vote them perks if they are speaking for us and doing a good job, which they obviously aren’t! They should have to live with the same type of insurance, health care, and social security as the rest of us.

        • http://personallibertydigest Bell

          I,m in total agreement.

      • John

        Sassi, be very careful where you point the fingers and cry what Jesus taught. If you really knew what he taught, your words would have come across much softer instead of attacking. KNOW your facts BEFORE you spout out who did what.

        I feel as if you are a President Obama supporter, if so, what do you honestly feel our President is, a Christian? If so, what would Jesus say about when a child is a child….conception? What would Jesus say about becoming who you surround yourself with?

        Check your heart and ask the Good Lord to reveal Truth and Light in your stance with this. We cannot change the past, only the future. History has proven itself time and time again, and big government is NOT the answer. Entrepeneaurs know this all too well, they drive this economy, tax them out of the picture and where would you like to work…..WalMart?

        We can all have an opinion, let’s just be respectful of others. Check our hearts before writing and write truth, not diatribe. I don’t like the direction this President is taking us and I have the right to speak up and those who listen hear me when I’m factual, honest, compassionate and respectful of others opinions. Blame will get you nowhere. This is the Greatest Country in the World because we are One Nation Under God. Amen

        • Stassi

          But you have no problem sending 18 year kids to war?

        • Stassi

          Does going to church every Sunday make you a Christian? Does praying that same prayer at meal time make you a Christian? Does doing church things make you a Christian?
          To be honest I don’t know if Obama is a Christian or not. And to be honest I don’t care. But is it right to let a baby be born only to be thrown into a dumpster because it’s not wanted? Or to be left alone for days while it’s mother goes out to find her next fix? Is this better than sending the child back to God and letting him try again with more fit parents?
          Obama can NOT be blamed for the current mess. Bush, Clinton, Bush can be. Remember we had years and years of Republicans in congress, but did they try to fix the banking rules? Nope. They left it go. They did nothing.

          You all are closed minded jerks and you I feel you will be the ones standing next to me at the gates of Hell.

          ORIGIN OF THE SECRET RAPTURE THEORY

          To many it is both amazing and shocking to discover that neither the word rapture nor the doctrine/teaching of a “secret rapture” is to be found in any bible translation. Moreover, it is not even mentioned in any “christian” literature prior to the year 1830.

          Dave MacPherson, author of The Unbelievable Pre-Trib Origin, reveals that the “rapture” teaching born in England during the mid-1800′s. MacPherson’s research found that a Church of Scotland minister, named Edward Irving, was the first to preach the “rapture gospel.”

          Just how the “rapture” theory occurred to Irving is an intriguing facet of modern churchianity’s history. Irving held some eccentric positions on the use of “spiritual” gifts, including speaking in tongues and prophesying. He contended that these gifts were for the present day “church”, and had quite a few followers of his radical notions. However, when chaotic disturbances arose in Irving’s services during the manifestations of these “gifts”, the Church of Scotland took action, dismissing Irving from his position as minister in 1832.

          The ultimate result of Irving’s dismissal was the formation of the Catholic Apostolic Church, which still exists until this day. Irving’s movement grew and became the basis of modern day pentecostalism. The natural evolution of this movement has resulted in the recent emergence of the “Toronto Laughing Spirit” phenomenon which has seduced and mislead more than a few well-intentioned people.

          However, in 1830 during one of Irving’s sessions before his dismissal, a young Scottish girl, named Margaret MacDonald, fell into a “trance”. After several hours of “vision” and “prophesying” she revealed that “christ’s” return would occur in two phases, not just one. “Christ” would first come visibly to only the righteous, then He would come a second time to execute wrath on the unrighteous in the nations.

          This “secret rapture” was promoted by Irving claiming he, too, had heard a “voice” from heaven commanding him to teach it. (Some modern researchers submit that Irving’s speculations of the “rapture were influenced by the Spanish Jesuit priest, Lacunza whose book Irving had translated in 1827 under the title, The coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty)

          John Darby, an Englishman and pioneer of the “Plymouth Brethren” movement became caught up in the rapture philosophies of Irving. When Darby heard about Irving’s activities, he traveled to Scotland to talk with Irving and his followers about the “secret rapture”. It was Darby who became the master developer of “scriptural” arguments to support the theory/doctrine that evolved.

          Darby’s development of the “rapture” theory has since become widely popularized in Britain and finally in the U.S., largely as a result of Cyrus Scofield’s notes in his Scofield Reference Bible.

          Belief in the “secret rapture” doctrine has become so widespread among today’s “evangelicals” and “fundamentalists” that many sitting in the pews assume that the teaching dates back to the apostles themselves and the Messiah. Regardless of whom one regards as the originator of the teaching — whether Irving, Darby, Margaret MacDonald, or a Jesuit priest – one thing is obvious; the “secret rapture” theory is of relatively recent origin. Moreover, it has no basis in fact nor was it ever a teaching of the Messiah, Apostles, or the early movement begun by Messiah.

        • Stassi

          It was Dena Schroeter that pointed the finger at Obama when he hasn’t yet had the chance to really do anything good or bad.

        • BSES

          Someone who votes to kill a baby that has survived a botched abortion is not Christian. At this point there is no argument whatsoever about whether life begins at conception – which it does – because the baby is already outside of the mothers womb and a living, breathing human being. We all had rights the moment that we were born and if someone would have murdered us after we were born they would have been arrested for murder. Why then is it any different for babies who are born alive in spite of the attempt to abort them?

        • BSES

          In fact, vets would probably be arrested if they killed puppies or kittens after they were born just because they weren’t wanted. Why is it different for human beings?

      • John

        Sassi, standing in the garage doesn’t make you a car either.

        NOPE, no problem sending my kids to war. I enlisted right out of High School myself to serve this great country, nobody twisted my arm. I had my mother and 4 younger sisters to protect. Dad left early on in my life.

        I’m sorry to hear you will be standing at the gates of Hell, you won’t find me there. Again, may God shed Truth and Light on your situation, amen.

        Mark, Facts were stated accurately, great job.

        • Stassi

          Don’t be so sure you won’t be standing at the gates of Hell. I’m sure there are a lot of people like you that were positive they were going to live with God only to find out in the end they were wrong.
          But I can not pass judgement on you for one I don’t know you and two, that is not up to me.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          I too served my country honorable, and if I was young enough Id do it again. I applaud those men and women who serve and do what they do, so that you and I can sit here and write what we write right now. Without them doing what they do, none of this is possible. Yes war is a bad thing as this Sassi seems to feel, and I agree, but John, you and I both know, peace is achieved by force, not by pacifism or appeasement. Pacifism and appeasement is a recipe for disaster and death and turmoil, whereas force has always been and will always been used to attain peace, just as it did in the Biblical days. Its a fact. Yeah, war sucks, but sometimes there comes a time in life where youve just got to man up and fight for what is right. If you run and hide it will come find you. If you confront it and contain it or eliminate it, peace will come. Thats just a fact of life that Sassi needs to come to understand. The lefties can propose to sit and talk and diplomacy this and diplomac that all they want, but nothing peaceful will come from it. Its a proven fact.

        • BSES

          I, for one, am really glad to hear Stassi state that he can’t pass judgment on us and that it’s not up to him whether we go to hell or not. Whewwwwww!

      • BSES

        I’m glad your job was saved but what about all of the others that have been lost due to Obama’s liberal agenda and policies? What happened to saving or creating millions of jobs and holding the unemployment to 8%?

        • Stassi

          If you can create a million jobs in six months maybe you should be President. My company is working on jobs that have received stimuliss money. If it were not for the government projects the construction company I work for would have NO work at all because the private jobs just are not there. So you can put at least 200 jobs towards your million of saved jobs. Now take that times all the cities and towns accross the country and what do you get?
          Instead of blaming Obama for a mess he he did not create why don’t you blame the coompanies that have been exporting our jobs over seas for the past 30 years only to increase their profit and give the top people big salaries? Doesn’t it bother you that when you got your American Flag out of the box on Saturday it said made in China on it? Or when you call tech support for your computer that you get some guy in India that can hardly speak English. You car was assembled in Mexico, and you RCA TV came from Japan. It’s these companies that sent the jobs over seas because they thought they could save a buck that are to blame. After WWII all the best stuff was made here in the USA. We were on top and things were good. But then some greedy person found out that he can pay a person a dollar a day in China to build the same things he’s paying a hard working American to build. It was all done because of greed. Sure things would be more expensive if they were made in the USA but we would all be working and making money so it wouldn’t matter as much because we would have the money to pay for the more expensive items. The money from taxes would go up because you have more people working making a good wage. There’s no way you can blame Obama for the loss of jobs at this point.
          Most of you people here are so closed minded and hateful towards anyone that thinks differently from you. And it amazes me that you call yourself Christian with such thoughts of hate especially the hate you have towards the President and Democrats. You can’f fix 30 -40 years of mistakes in a six month time. If you think you can you are just foolish. Will Obama fix any of our problems? My guess probably not. Things are only going to get worse because power corrupts.
          This will be my last post. It sure has been fun anoying all you closed minded hatefull people.

        • BSES

          Maybe I would make a good president but that’s not the point is it? I didn’t promise to save or create millions of jobs or to keep unemployment under 8%. President Obama did. And, so far, very few jobs have been saved or created (in comparison to what was promised) and unemployment blew right past 8% with no end in sight yet.

          I’m glad the company you work for has landed jobs funded by the stimulus money. That’s great for you and 200 others. However, my husband’s construction company hasn’t been quite as fortunate….. they haven’t landed any jobs funded by the stimulus money. In fact, this year there are 20 – 30 times the number of construction companies bidding on the construction jobs available here. Construction companies are coming from hundreds of miles away to bid on our local jobs. Many of those companies are struggling or in the process of going under. For others it’s just a matter of time. Several have bid the jobs so low that they won’t even be able to cover materials but they’re desperate and trying to survive. Those companies have landed the majority of the jobs and I guess they figure that they can cut corners and maybe survive that way. I don’t know.

          Since the big jobs have been taken by desperate out of town construction companies bidding far lower than we can afford to, we’ve been forced to bid on the smaller jobs that they don’t bid on to keep going. Fortunately we’ve picked up enough smaller jobs to keep working for now, our equipment’s paid for and we live in an area that hasn’t been hit as hard as most other areas across this country so we’ll probably survive. Maybe, maybe not. Many others won’t, though. And if they keep flooding in from other areas taking all of our local jobs, we may not survive either. Normally I’d look at other construction companies as competition (which they are) but, even though we’ve got enough work to survive for now, it brings me no joy whatsoever to know that other good, hard working people and construction companies aren’t going to weather the storm.

          Which brings me to the question….. where are all of the “shovel ready” jobs? Obviously 200 of those jobs went to your area but, from what we’re hearing, there are very few “shovel ready” construction jobs being funded by stimulus money so far, especially compared to what was promised. So you’re very fortunate but there’s no way you can multiply 200 stimulus money construction jobs by every town and city across America. That’s extremely misleading and certainly NOT reality. And by the time the “shovel ready” stimulus money construction jobs actually show up in our area (if they ever do) it will be too late for several companies.

          I would prefer to buy products made in America, too. They are generally higher quality and it does put people to work here. However, if I WERE president right now, I certainly wouldn’t pass Cap & Trade which will drive even more jobs overseas. And, yes, I DO blame Obama for making decisions that cause job loss rather than implementing policies that would create jobs. If he were to change his strategy, start making smart decisions regardless of party agenda and start passing legislation that helps to create jobs then I’ll give him all the credit that’s due. That’s simply not the case right now, though.

          I’m not asking the president or democrats to “fix 30 – 40 years of mistakes in a six month time.” However, I would ask them to do things to improve the economy instead of compounding the problems we now face, as I believe they are simply because they care about their party agenda rather than what’s good for the country. I’d feel the same way if it were the Republicans doing it.

          The past is the past. What counts now is what Obama’s done since being sworn in and what he does from here on out….. and it’s not looking good.

          I can call myself a Christian because I am a Christian. Being a Christian doesn’t require someone to give up all common sense, simply agree with others just for the sake of agreeing, stop thinking for myself or to be anyone else’s doormat. I don’t hate anyone but I DO NOT agree with the presidents’ policies so far and I think that they are harmful to a country that I love much….. more than any party.

          Lastly, I’m glad to hear that you’re having fun annoying others. However, if anyone’s closed minded and hateful, I would say that you’re a lot closer to that than I am or than the other people you are criticizing here are.

        • Paul Ruby

          BSES
          I feel for you that your company can’t land any work. However in times like these it is survival of the fittest. If there are no stimuliss projects in your state then you should blame your state. The money was sent to the states. What happens to it from there is anyone’s guess. Our governments are full of corrutp politicians. I think a lot of money goes into their pockets. But how many of those politicians get reelected time and time again? Do you vote for new people or do you hold the party line? Do you ever write your representives? Don’t just blog on sites like this about your discuss with government. Do something. You have to write and call and write and vote against those in office. Send a message that your mad and if they aren’t going to work together we’ll get people that will. Someone is in office for one term and they just play politics then get rid of them. The people of this country have to learn to vote for new people and not just the name they reconize. Ted Kennedy, Alarn Spector, John Kerry, are just a few that have been in office for years and years. It’s time for them to go. If you think about it we do not really have a democracy in this nation. Laws are writen by party leaders. The rest of congress just goes along with whatever there leaders tell them. Oh, don’t vote for this because a democrat introduced it. And not one republican will vote for it. or vise versa. That’s not democracy. That’s getting close to dictatorship.
          As for what made this country great, it was built by hard working people that wanted something better for themselves. They wanted a better life and found that in America it can happen if you work for it. But now it’s all about greed and how much money can get. No one cares about doing a good job, or seeing that people get paid a decent wage. No one wants to take the time to invent a new product or come up with a better mousetrap. Can this be blamed on the government? Maybe somewhat. But what about the father that teaches his kids how good an honest days work feels? Or the rewards of working for something on your own. Nope not anymore. Parents of kids are as much to blame as the government. It’s a downward cycle. But it can be fixed. It all starts with kicking the bums out of congress. Federal, State and Local. Don’t put lables on people. And if they ones you elect fall into the partisin trap, kick em out at the end of there term.

        • Paul Ruby

          I’m sorry, what policy did Obama pass that made people lose jobs? Please state the ones you’re refering to.
          I think we are still in the backlash of what happend last year. This ain’t going to be easy or short. It takes time to undo years and years and years of mess.
          One thing is for certain, if Obama does turn out to be a dud then we have to vote him out. Don’t reelect him to another 4 years like we did with Bush.

        • BSES

          Paul Ruby – I agree that it’s survival of the fittest now….. for the working people. Of course, if we were a bank, a car company or one of the big dogs that matter, we’d be bailed out, wouldn’t we?

          I’m sorry that I gave you the wrong impression, Paul. I didn’t say that my husband’s company hadn’t landed any work. As I indicated in my post, my husband’s company has landed enough work to keep going. Why? Because they’ve gotten lean, they do quality work, have an excellent reputation, they work their tails off and they’ve taken the jobs that are available. However, those jobs are few since the local area has been invaded by starving construction companies coming in from other areas. Other construction companies aren’t surviving and I was pointing out that I’m very sympathetic for those who aren’t, especially since I believe that things could have been better if they had been handled differently.

          Stimulus money was promised for “shovel ready” construction jobs but only a fraction has actually been distributed. If the money has already been sent to our State, as you say it has, then obviously it’s been spent elsewhere. However, Obama is the one who made the “shovel ready” promise and he, along with the democrats in congress, are the one’s who rushed through a poorly executed stimulus bill, not Bush or the republicans. If safeguards weren’t included in the stimulus bill to prevent corruption it’s probably because it was rushed through without being read, let alone scrutinized to make sure it would do what it was meant to do or what was promised. Are the state’s to blame that there were no safeguards concerning corruption put into place before the stimulus bill was so quickly pushed through or is Obama and the democratic majority that forced it through so fast?

          Banks also received TARP funds without any guarantee that those banks would lend that money to the small businesses and those who create jobs in this country, which is what I thought was one of the main reasons we were giving them TARP funds in the first place. Instead much of it has gone overseas. Who dropped the ball there in their rush to force it through?

          So far, to answer your question about which policies I feel have cost jobs, the Stimulus Bill is the policy that I feel has actually cost jobs rather than saving or creating more jobs as was advertised in order to sell it. I say that for the reasons I’ve outlined above.

          The other policies that I feel will cost jobs are yet to be pushed through – Cap & Trade, Obama’s Health Care and now we’re hearing that they’re talking about another stimulus bill. Cap & Trade will drive jobs overseas and Obama’s Health Care will cost us trillions that we don’t have. We can’t afford either right now. Another stimulus bill? Unemployment is at 9.5% and rising. I don’t think the first one has worked.

          I know that this started at the end of Bush’s term and I’m not thrilled with how Bush handled the situation either. However, I do give Bush credit for keeping this country safe to the best of his ability during his term and for the good things that he accomplished.

          Bush spent enough money while in office, though. What’s frightening is that Obama is like Bush on steroids in that regard. This country can’t afford it. Where I grew up, when I was young a hundred dollars was a lot of money and if someone had thousands of dollars we thought they were rich. As a young adult, someone with millions became the new rich. Recently, very briefly, it seems we talked about government topics in terms of billions. In fact, we almost blew right past billions and are now dealing in trillions since Obama has been sworn in. Is it just me or what actually comes after trillions? I honestly don’t know but having our government throw around trillions like pocket change scares the heck out of me.

          I try to give credit where credit is due and I place blame where I think it’s deserved. I don’t vote for someone strictly because of party, especially on the State and local level, and if someone has a good idea, it’s a good idea regardless of party. Having said that, obviously I’m conservative and lean towards those who I think have our same values and who will implement policies that will move this country forward instead of being stuck in reverse.

          I agree with you on term limits and voting duds who aren’t doing their jobs out. I know the work ethic in this country has declined on the whole but on a personal level, we love hard work or we wouldn’t have been doing what we do for all these years. Finding employees who feel the same about work is getting increasingly harder to do, though. Many want the high pay but they’re not as keen on putting in a good day’s work for a good day’s pay like we were taught. That’s true.

          It’s funny or ironic that you mentioned that nobody wants to invent a new product. We introduced a new decorative stone product this year and it’s actually doing well given the state the economy is in. Part of the reason for that is the quality of our decorative stone products and the fact that it saves people money.

          What I blame our government for concerning our kids is the sense of entitlement some in the government promote. It’s almost a full time job to teach our kids that they aren’t entitled to everything that they want and that they have to work for it. Thankfully our kids “get” that but that’s no thanks to the government or what’s being taught in the schools anymore.

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest PrincessDI

            BSES

            About your comments on hard working Americans – I spent years in South Florida only to punished for work ethics. To survive and not get fired I had to play the game and do less work and act stupid. Corporate American did not want anyone with a brain or work ethics. I came back to the Northest but not to the area I was originally from. Either everyone in the Northest has lost their brains and work ethics since I was gone or it is just Philadelphia that is like South Florida. I have to again act stupid and lazy to not piss off the boss. I would like to work at place that wants people with a brain – can do their work without errors and has work ethics with handling numerous job duties but where are those employers? I have not found any in the last 12 years. It has been the bosses don’t want some one under them that knows more or can do more work instead of working together to streamline the department and having a good person under them will make them (the Boss) look better to higher up. I give up and wonder why I ever spent money on College and a masters degree when I can’t use any brains on the job. It has not been one company but over the last 12 years numerous ones and I hear the same thing from other good people that have to act dumb and lazy to keep a job.

        • Paul Ruby

          Here ia link to Congress.org that has the Cap & Trade Bill.

          http://www.congress.org/congressorg/webreturn/?url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.2454:

          How many of you think your representives in Congress actually read this bill? I didn’t read it. It would take me weeks to read through it all.

          Have fun reading

        • Paul Ruby

          You talk about saving and / or creating jobs, but yet you disagree with letting the auto industry go under and putting millions more out of work. Congress gave money to the failing auto industry to save those jobs but yet you complain that nothing has been done. Again it’s the hurray for me the heck with you attitude that so many seem to have. I only agree with it if it bennifits me.
          Please tell me how to create a job without spending money? By the way, the President doesn’t control the money, Congress does. The President can only present his case to Congress and try to convince them to open up the purse strings. But if those that oppose the President really want to be taken seroiusly they really should present something more than a budget with no numbers in it.
          But back to my question, how do you create jobs without spending money? If you know please write to the President and Congress as I’m sure they’d like to know too. Just go to Congress.org. It’s very easy.

        • BSES

          I’m sorry to hear that you feel, by saying that “I only agree with it if it benefits me”, that I’m a selfish and uncaring person because of my opinions about how this economic crisis or mess has been handled so far, Paul. I honestly mean that. I’m a wife, mother, small business owner and a person who cares about her faith, family, community and country very deeply. My family and friends would tell you that I don’t have a selfish bone in my body and that I’ve always put others first. I don’t know you personally and you don’t know me but I assume that you’re a good person, as well. Unlike Stassi, who I think would have a problem with everything this country does even if his own grandmother was running it, I think we both want what’s best for the country but we just disagree on the details of what that actually is. Big deal really.

          Again, as I’ve stated, I’m not the one that promised to “save or create” millions of jobs or to keep unemployment under 8%. President Obama made those promises. And I don’t claim that nothing’s been done either. However, I have stated that I don’t like the “results” of what has been done. If you’re satisfied with the results so far, I respect that. I disagree but I do respect your right to feel that way.

          For some reason you’ve drawn the conclusion from something I’ve said that I would prefer that millions would have been put out of work in the auto industry. That isn’t true. I do believe that IF the car companies would have gone through a controlled bankruptcy and reorganized from the beginning that the government would have saved billions or at least put those billions to better use saving those jobs or in other areas. I also believe that it would have seriously encouraged the car companies to become leaner and more efficient in producing better and more competitive products. In the end, I think that more jobs would have been saved or created as a result because our car companies would be more competitive again and would sell more American made products. You may disagree with me on that but that’s not a “the heck with you attitude” on my part.

          As far as creating a job without spending money, I also didn’t say you could create a job without spending money. In fact, you’re blatantly putting words in my mouth here. We own a small business so I understand very well that you have to spend money in job creation. However, if we spend money on the right things, we will eventually get a return on the money we’ve invested creating that job. If we are wasteful and spend that same money on the wrong things, we’ll certainly go under….. and there’s nobody there to bail us out. That forces us to make good choices and work hard or we know that we’ll fall flat on our faces. The government isn’t forced to operate under those conditions which makes it much easier to waste the tax payers money and puts much less pressure on them to be results oriented.

          I may be wrong but the conclusion that I draw from your comments is that you feel that the government knows better and is better at job creation than the private sector is. I feel the opposite so we have a difference of opinion. That doesn’t make either one of us selfish or uncaring about others.

          I don’t like our government spending trillions of dollars like it’s chump change. That’s true, especially without putting safeguards into place to insure the money goes to what it what intended to go to. If the TARP funds would have had the proper conditions attached before the stimulus bill was passed, banks would be lending to companies that create jobs. That would have improved the economy and much of the TARP money wouldn’t have ended up overseas. As it is, the banks aren’t lending and job creation from the small business sector is stagnant, at best, as a result.

          Similarly, if the stimulus money that was promised for “shovel ready” jobs would have been distributed AND used for the intended “shovel ready” projects, thousands more jobs would have been created by now which would have improved the economy and the country’s decaying infrastructure, also, at least that much.

          My point is that I feel that much more could have been accomplished with much less money if the money spent would have been targeted to specific areas of the economy and the companies that create the jobs. As it is, our country can’t afford what’s going on without seeing much better results than we currently are from what we’re spending. I’d feel that way if it was the republicans in charge of the administration and congress. As I said, I’m not happy with how Bush handled things before Obama took over. It isn’t a party thing.

          In this case, though, the president did present his case and the congress opened up the purse strings for what he proposed. However, they did that in haste without fully thinking things through. No matter how good we feel the presidents plan was or wasn’t, congress neglecting to put the safeguards in the stimulus bill to control corruption and to insure the money was used where it was intended has only compounded our country’s problems.

          We all get to pay all of this money back at some point. Achieving the best results we can in getting the economy moving again gives us at least a fighting chance at doing that. As it is, I feel that things are spinning dangerously out of control when they really don’t have to.

          I base my opinions on what seems like common sense to me. I’m not an economist so I don’t have the ability to throw out accurate numbers to prove a case either way. I assume you don’t either but I may be wrong. On the other hand, our leaders have access to the top economists in the world. I wish they’d drop the party agenda’s and listen to them, at least long enough to get the country moving in the right direction again.

          If that makes me selfish and uncaring about others, then so be it. One thing that’s been a benefit in debating these issues with you and others, even though we disagree on many things, is that it makes me think harder about the issues and dig deeper for answers. I’m sure that will be reflected in how we vote when the time comes again. Right now, though, I feel pretty certain that your vote would cancel mine out and visa versa…..

        • keith

          WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO WITH BIBLE STUDY AND GODS WORD??????

        • BSES

          Point taken. Although current events and what’s happening politically now has a great deal to do with God’s Word and our Bible studies. But, you’re right. We strayed off topic. Sorry…..

        • nancy

          Jobs should not have to be created!! If the labor unions did not raise the cost of working in the US of A and making employers keep employees who do shoddy
          work then most of our work would not go to Mexico and China, who by the way, will own America before nobama is out. In a real world, people who can, hire others and pay them to work so many hours for them, If they do good work and come every day they do well. If they do poor work and skip when the fishing is good, then out the door they are. AS IT SHOULD BE!!!!

      • http://personallibertydigest Bell

        Stacy, please don’t give our new president the credit for spending money on us. Those of us who have worked all our lives will hve to continually pay the taxes to pay for our presidents wunderful gift to us therefore it wasn’t a gift it will be payed for by those people who haved worked and payed taxes and those children of those people who have worked all their lives. As to the religious freedom. Well it means just that. I am Christian I know many people of a variety of non Christian religions our native Americans believe in the same God just worship differently. Judeism, believes in the 10 commandments, Islam believes in the ten commandments as well as Christians. The differences are Jewish people do not believe Jesus was the Christ, Islam believes he was a prophet. So, whats the fuss? I for one do not want my contry to lose it’s religious freedom, I just want everyone to come to pray to their Higher power and ask for strength to get through these tough times with acceptance of all beliefs. We need two partys,one watches out for the people and the other business. So I ask Chritians pray to God in the name of the son, Jews pray to God, Islam pray to God, Budists pray to the spirit, Wiccans remember harm none and all religions pray for and meditate on strength, to get this country getting to or back to religious FREEDOM. We need to keep closer watch on those peope we directly elect. eg. mayors, governers,state assembly people,AND our US congress.

      • William

        Stassi, you’ve been walking around with blinders. To begin with, it was not George Bush that put us in our present situation. William Jefferson Clinton before he left office, borrowed billions of dollars from China in order to make himself look good in the eyes of America. That’s how he left office with a surplus. Also, George Bush did go on national television before he went to war in the middle east and informed all Americans that the war on terrorism would be long expensive and cost lives. The American people both republican and democrat did not care at the time, they were calling for blood, so all George Bush did was give the “American People” exactly what they wanted. Also, George Bush did not get aboard air force one, fly to Iraq, deplane and drive around the country looking for the WMD’s. George Bush had to rely on intel provided by CIA, FBI and other agencies within the government. The WMD’s were there but, before they could be discovered, the Iraq government moved them to their neighboring country. On the subject of homosexuals, NO they should not be allowed to marry and have the same benefits as in a traditional marriage. To me their actions are like animals and to prove my point, read the Bible. Two entire cities along with their populations were destroyed because of homosexuality. So everything that has gone wrong with this Country can be traced back to NAFTA, GATT, NAACP, ACLU and the Progressive Democratic Socialist. Looking at your statement I can only come to one conclusion, your a PDS supporter.

        • Stassi

          Ever hear of the North American Union? The Amero, and the Project for the New American Century?
          How about the Bilderburgs?

      • Debbie

        Mark,
        You are a great American. You should run for office, you have my vote! Your comments are so well said and I believe represent the majority of American’s who remember that freedom isn’t free nor are government programs.

        David in Michigan and Stassi, unions had their place in time and did represent the rights of the workers however, we shouldn’t blame the government for jobs going to foreign countries but the unions who promoted mediocre work ethics, entitlement and political favors that are bought and paid for?

        Stacci, and David from Michigan; I often ponder whether people who share your opinion have a true grasp on what made America great?

        The “love of this great country” has been proven over and over by the soldiers who have fought for the freedom you enjoy to spew your socialist views. Do you really believe that the sacrifices they have made to assure that we are free from the government running our lives, taking over businesses, taking more of what we make than what we take home is what America has fought and died for? Was it the unions and the governemnt taking over business and our personal lives that made America great in the past. Government intervention into free enterprise, unions demanding high pay and lifetime benefits for average productivity, government run health care, governement taxing the people who are willing to work hard and acheive success to give to low lifes who are too lazy to work, to educate themselves and who believe that the governement owes them something for nothing. In my book that spells socialism, not freedom.

        Definition: Socialism refers to any one of various theories of economic organization advocating state or cooperative ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equal opportunities/means for all individuals with a more egalitarian method of compensation. Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, creates an unequal society, and does not provide equal opportunities for everyone in society. Therefore socialists advocate the creation of a society in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly based on the amount of work expended in production.

        Sound familiar, it should, you obviously support it and probably voted for it? Thank God that America wasn’t built with the mind set of people like you who believe that the government owes you, people who make more than you owe you, and that the Governement can take over free enterprise, banks, auto manufacturing, health care and whatever is next.

        I shall pray for your wisdom, freedom and for America since it is obvious that it is being run by people who share your beliefs in the government vs. the people.

        • nancy

          HEAR HEAR!!!

      • James

        Stassi, I agree with most of your tirade here, except for that last part: “Jesus taught us to love everyone no matter what.” In the Old Testament God’s Law declared homosexual acts to be capital offenses (Lev. 20:13). In the New Testament, Jesus said God’s Law would remain in effect “Till heaven and earth pass” (Mt. 5:17-19). And John reminded us (1 John 5:16): “There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.” In Lawrence v. Texas, the U.S. Supreme Court overruled that and declared all state laws, which criminalized such homosexual acts, unconstitutional.

    • katina

      AMEN, Sister
      It’s coming to a One World Global System and the Mark(Chip) so we cannot
      buy or sell w/out Government Permission, and then the END will come.
      EVEN SO, COME LORD JESUS.

      • James

        Katina, in passing, I would remind all that those who willingly receive this ‘mark’ (acquiesce to that system) invite the “wrath of God” (Rev. 14:9-10).

        • katina

          Sorry I did not make myself clear. I would not take the mark ,I will die 1st.
          I just ment that it looks like it’s getting to that point in time though, I could be wrong, Because no one knows the day or hour except God Himself!
          Thankyou for being concerned for my Spiritual well being.
          Love in Christ
          Katina

  • Neal

    In today’s society, many are not responding to these threads as they fear reprisal from the author as well as they fear Washington D.C is keeping track of who said what about whom.
    It is time for more people who are freedom loving American’s whether they be Christian or not, voice their concerns about tolerance of a people who from birth are educated and directed to kill every jewish person and destroy anyone who supports them. Yes my God is an awesome God and can do anything except remove the standards set fourth in his written word. Satan is the master deceiver and God has given him reign/freedom to corrupt whomever is willing to listen. For everything that our Lord has provided for us, Satan has his own counterfeit answer.
    God is winning and Satan is loosing. As the angelic conflict intensifies here on earth satan becomes frantic and his followers will do anything and everything to stop the promotion of christian type values. Our faith teaches us to allow others the freedom to choose whatever. The Muslem believe is not a belief at all but a communial/hitler type believe forged from the knowledge of severe reprisal and death if directives are not followed. There is double standards and trickery through their believe. They are under the misguided believe that their God is going to bless them with many riches in their version of heaven if the just stay the course.

    I am very sure that after one of the fanatics blows himself up. He arrives at wherever he is going and is wishing he had a cell phone to call home and let all his friends and family know that it isn’t what they were told.

    Today our country is currupted from the top to the bottom thanks to mans greed and apathy. Satan has done a very good job deceiving. The end result hasn’t changed.
    I fear that fighting for our freedom again after over two hundred years may be a real possibility though.

    Neal

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      That my friend, is the difference that will set one free. We as Christians, pray for all these other religions, that they may come to know Jesus Christ and experience the riches he has waiting for them. Where as the muslim religion, whom I keep hearing is a peaceful religion, trains their children from a young age as you have stated, to hate and kill jews. They are also trained that us Christians are evil and from Satan. Its all backwards. The whole tenant of their religion is to kill anyone who thinks different than them, yet the whole while they are screaming tolerance, tolerance, but it only applies to them. No one else is tolerated in their world. Think about it. They can march over here and denounce Jesus and Christianity, and the government protects them to do it. How far would I get if I went into the middle of Iran and denounced Muhammed, and told them the truth that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life? They would cut my head off, but they cant kill me. They think they can, but they cant. Jesus has given me life eternal. And that is the difference that sets Christianity apart from any and all religions on this earth. Jesus Christ is alive and well, and never went to the grave and rotted in the ground. Muhammed, whoever the buddhist found is, John Smith of the Mormons, and every other religion, their holy one or found, died and was buried in the ground. Every one of them. Not Jesus Christ. My God lives, and my friend, that is the difference that will set all me free, when they come to know him as their personal saviour. There is only one name on heaven and earth by which men might be saved, and that is the name of Jesus Christ the Lord. Amen.

    • James

      Neal, at the arrest of Jesus, Peter drew a sword and lopped off an ear of one of the arresting officers sent by the high priest. Jesus admonished him for doing that (Mt. 26:51-52) and restored the ear, but He later said: “he that hath no sword let him sell his garment, and buy one” (Lk. 22:35-38), which certainly condoned armed self-defense.

  • Stassi

    You people are amazing! You’re so proud because the county backed off of the Christians having Bible Study. My question is, what if this was a group of Muslims practicing their religion? Would you still be outraged that the county was ignoring the first amendment? Or would you stand behind the county and shut down the Muslim’s worship?
    I think the Christians have dark spots on their History too. They have had a dark past. And what do you mean Christians Don’t take over the world by force? Ever hear of the crusades? How about good old GW Bush going into Iraq to force them into a new form a government? Sure seemed like force to me.
    Wake up now because if you don’t you might be in for a big surprise the day you meet your maker. It could be you that God sends down to Hell for you closed minded hateful ways.
    Be a real Christian!

    • ChrV

      If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.
      George Washington

    • Roger Short

      Stassi,

      I’m not sure you really know what a “real Christian” is. The real Christians will be taken up in the rapture, if you’ve ever even heard of that, to be with Jesus in Heaven. The Muslims, as well as all of the other non-Christians, will be left here on earth to deal with the antichrist. If you don’t believe it, I suggest you get more familiar with what the Bible teaches. Amen.

      • Stassi

        Show me exactly where in the bible it says about a rapture. It’s a feel good theory that was created in the 1800′s. Don’t be so sure you won’t be left on earth to deal with things.

        • John

          In the Bible, here’s where you’ll find Rapture. Stassi, it’s not some made up theory created in 1800′s. Don’t believe that lie. Read it for yourself. I wish I could speak to you directly and guide you to the right path, I truly feel you have been mislead greatly and my heart cries out to you.

          Read here (Book, Chapter, Verse, Subject)
          Mark 13:32 Time of Christs return
          Luke 12:35-40 watching for the Lord to come
          John 11:25 Those dead, those alive
          John 14:3 Promise of Christ’s return
          John 21:20-23 Mistaken information about rapture
          1 Thes 3:13 Those prepared for Rapture
          1 Peter 1:3-5 Living Hope

          God bless your search for the truth in this matter.

        • James

          Stassi, the rapture teaching was based partially on biblical fact but embellished with fantasy. Paul wrote: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout…Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds…and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (I Thes. 4:16-17). It was assumed, then, that after being beamed up, those rescued would be wafted off to heaven. However, this return of the Lord is the beginning of His reign here, where those of the first resurrection “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” (Rev. 20:4-6). Also, Satan is dethroned and imprisoned for this period (Rev. 20:1-3).

      • Stassi

        If all the Christians are going to be taken up into heaven to be with Christ, who is going to fight and beat the antichrist? What I have learned is that it will be the final battle between good and evil and Jesus will lead his army into battle to defeat the antichrist and evil. But if all the Christians are going to be safe and sound in Heaven then who is Jesus going to take into battle? Who will be his worriers? If it is the Muslims and nonChristians then YOU are going to be indebted to them. Also kind of makes you look like a coward if you’re not willing to stand up and fight the final war between good and evil. You will rather be safe and sound behind daddy’s coat tails then be a true hero and fight evil and the antichrist and claim victory for Christians.
        I am not counting on a rapture to save me from evil. I’m counting on true Christian Values of love and respect to save me and not a false hope of a feel good theroy.

        • John

          Sassi, the War is has already been won. Satan is already defeated, he was defeated on the Cross. Jesus is coming back to throw Satan in Hell where he belongs. Jesus doesn’t need us, we are not the army that will be fighting Satan. It’s is written and it is done.

          Read the book of Revelation (the whole book is about the end of time)
          Read 1Thes 4:13-18 Gods hope for us
          Read 2 Peter 3:10-18 prepare now
          Read 2 Thes 2:1-16 this will give you what to expect in the end time.
          Read 1 John 2:18-29 warning of false profits

          Read your Bible, That’s as simple as I can make it for you.
          Then, heed the warnings and join me and many others rejoicing in heaven. You don’t want to be in hell, both are eternal. You want peace and joy or pain and suffering. Your choice-Jesus gave us that.

          This brother in Christ hopes to see you there, be sure to introduce yourself if you come. :)

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Those that dont go in the rapture, will be given another chance later, to accept Jesus Christ and be killed for it, or to deny him and take the mark of the beast. Choice is yours.

        • James

          Stassi, Jesus said: “No man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, but he that came down from heaven, the Son of man which is in heaven” (John 3:13). And Revelation 20:5 states. “them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” If those ‘dead in christ’ are the ‘first resurrection’ of the dead, and Christ’s statement is true, then no one has gone to heaven, whatever his faith.

      • Paul Ruby

        Please explain a “Real Christian” I’d like to know too.

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      The county shouldnt have been on them in the first place. End of discussion. We are a Christian nation. End of discussion. I will let them read their Koran here. Question is, can I read my Bible walking down the middle of the street in Iran? I have to wonder.

      • http://personallibertydigest Bell

        No you can’t Mark. There is,however, or was a small Christian community in Iraq with a church at its center.

      • Stassi

        We are not talking about Iran. We are talking about the USA. Iran is ruled by Muslim beliefs and that is their right. Who are you to want to change their way of life? If those people don’t like it then it is up to them to change it. Not some nut case from the USA because you want to read your Bible in Iran.
        Hey, I know let’s just go blow them off the face of the earth the Neocons wanted to do.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          I think you need to move back to Iran or Syria or wherever you came from, because these are definately not American words coming out of your hateful mouth.

    • BSES

      Stassi – You look at it as taking over by force. I see it as freeing oppressed human beings. What if one of our presidents would have done to millions of us what Sadam Hussien did to millions of the Iraqi’s? Would you hope that someone would help or would you be happy if others just stood by and watched it happen to us?

    • William

      Stassi, look what the Romans did in earlier times if you want to talk about force. Enough said.

    • debra

      Stassi….you are into to many drugs that make you so deluisional that you think you are smart..Or at least I hope its drugs that is making you angry,mean and just flat out stupid. You are so stupid ..you don`t know you are stupid..You really need to do some research…and get some MENTAL help!!!

    • James

      Stassi, I would again remind all that the First Amendment is a restriction that the Founders placed upon the Federal Government. It says “Congress shall make no law…l” and that is, exclusively, to whom it applies. No state law has ever been held violative of the Bill of Rights.

  • Terrell H. Yon, Jr.

    There is a major ommision in this story. The name of the county official who posed the questions enumerated by attorney Dean Broyles of The Western Center for Law and Policy was ommitted from the story. This individual has violated Federal Statutes. Who signed the written warning? This individual should also be brought to account. Were these names inadvertantly ommitted or were they intentionly ommitted? Why?

    • James

      Yon, Jr., I disagree, please cite and quote the “Federal Statutes” that were supposedly violated. I agree that those county officials responsible for this ordinance should be removed from office, but that’s a state matter.

  • Puraquequara

    When the subject of Islam is under discussion, the residents of Israel should have opportunity to speak. Our American news media has made the word Jihad (Jeehad) familiar to most. Yes, it means war against any unbeliever. A weapon used in Israel but not seen here as yet is Shahid (Shaheed). When your well-populated Main St. restaurant is blown up, you should ask yourself “which of my Muslim friends had decided to become a Shahid” and introduced real Jihad to the USA. The Israelis know too well, the doctrines and goals of Islam.

  • John E.

    It seems to be Any Christians No matter what faith of beliefsCan not have our rights voilated. I am sending this to My Priest and other fellow christians If we can’t hold a peaceful meeting in our building or even private homes What Next It seems dicatators are in our mist.

  • BadNews2Muslims

    Every one of those politicians wives and children should wake up with their throats cut.

    • Stassi

      WTF!

    • Stassi

      This is Christian? To wish harm on someone?

  • Holly

    It is my feeling that Mr. Ekard’s statement and the reversal of the County’s decision, is little more than lip service to those of us who are outraged. I, personally, want the county official fired. This is the only way that our message can be realized effectively. The county tried to cover their A_ _ with their excuse, that this all was over a parking issue. If it had been, then these questions; * Do you have a regular meeting in your home?, * Do you say amen?, * Do you pray?, * Do you say “Praise the Lord?”, would never have been asked. This is only one of our Constitutional rights that they are attempting to take from us. We cannot allow this type of harrassment. This is a hate crime of the biggest proportion. We need to send a very loud message by asking for the employee’s resignation or firing. Stand up and be vigilant now, or before long you will not be allowed to.

    • James

      Holly, Our rights are not “Constitutional,” they are not dependent on any document (state or federal) for their existence. Rights are inalienable, they are acquired by being born in the United States. And I agree, Mr. Ekard must be removed from office.

  • Dena Schroeter

    I’d like to thank everyone who was able to understand what I said. Boy, I sure never meant to ruffle any feathers, but it looks like I brought out the worst in someone. Pointing direction to Obama was to bring light to what he is doing now to the economy and what will happen to Christians in the future. In revelation it speaks of the beast enforcing the numbers 666 into everyones hand and it also speaks of needing that mark to purchase food or anything. Our country is heading in that direction if Socialism is made the “new government” for this country. Prophecies are in deed in the works. Just read the bible.
    I for one will have the mark of Jesus Christ upon my forehead. I will fight tooth and nail if my government is going to try to take away my faith or invade my privacy to want to practice or share the “Good News” with others.
    I am not a Liberal as someone had written in this blog. I am a Christian Conservative and if you enjoy the way the world is now, you have a lot to learn. Just because the generations are changing and are so liberal themselves, they think anything goes, doesn’t mean they are right. God is right. Jesus is right. And that’s all I need to know and that is all I need to get me by in this screwed up Liberal world. My Faith is my salvation and I welcome His 2nd coming.
    God Bless to all. I do hope that you all pray for our country, our congressmen, our senator’s, for all the people who are in charge, pray that they hear and acknowledge Our Lord Savior Jesus and God our Father. Amen.

  • John R. Nilsen

    I would like to go on record as having learned a lot from the foregoing bloggers! Thanks a lot for your clarity of thought and honest (hopefully) opinion! That sure was very refreshing! Thank you very much! With thinking such as that on tap, our I.Q.’s have been raised, significantly, I’m sure!

  • Mung

    Well, I am glad that the situation is resolved for the time. We don’t need more problems at the moment.

  • Rod OH

    Are you certain that there wasn’t one other question asked such as “Do you collect money” from those who attend these “meetings”. Something does not add up here with your article. Anyone with a brain knows that “organized religion” is one of the biggest scams around.

    • William

      Rod OH, what you fail to understand is the fact that a true church uses that money to help families and individuals in need. How many times have you been in need?

      • Stassi

        But when the government wants to help those in need you call it socialiasm?

        • BSES

          It is Socialism. The government collects OUR tax money and then decides who to help with OUR tax money without consulting US or asking US if we’d really like to help those who they determine are in need. Personally, I don’t want my hard earned money to go to a corrupt organization like ACORN or to fund abortions and the like.

          On the other hand, I’ll gladly give to those who are just down on their luck through no fault of their own. Or to someone who has a disability that prevents them from being able to work or to earn money on their own to provide for the basics in life or to live life to the fullest like we’re so fortunate to be able to do. Or to someone who has messed up in life but is now truly trying to get their life back on track. Or to many others who I feel are very deserving of help.

          And I’ll either do that on my own or I’ll donate what I can afford to donate to a church that I feel helps people truly in need.

          But I truly hate the fact that our tax dollars are increasingly being thrown away and wasted on socialist programs that aren’t needy OR deserving. Many are totally against what I believe in and my values.

          With a socialistic government, the people are forced to donate more and more tax dollars to whoever the government deems as needy. With a church, you decide for yourself whether the church is truly helping those in need or deserving and then decide whether you’ll donate or not. Huge difference.

        • William

          Except for Social Security I do not believe the government should be handing out our tax payers money to anyone. The majority of those on welfare and food stamps are more than capable to work just as I am. Organization such as ACORN should never be handed any tax payers dollars. The money that’s in the United States Treasury should be used for the purpose of supporting our government and military period. To ruffle your feathers even further, I also believe that the tax payers money should not be handed out to third world countries. Let them work for their own living just as most Americans do. enough said.

        • James

          Stassi, Yes, it’s socialism. When the federal government helps “those in need,” they must first tax Americans $2 for every $1 they give in aid (to cover expenses incurred in administrating the aid program) and recipients of such aid are prevented, by law, from using any portion of such aid in support of religion, lest it be argued that Congress was violating the First Amendment by making a law respecting religion. Such control-strings are attached to all federal handouts.

  • jimster

    Watch out Amway

  • Silvereagle

    Why does a country send its children to fight a war that the grownups started????Thats a good one for starters.Whether is was Bushy or clintone that started the housing mess -we have a mess that needs to be cleaned up.Tell me why a car costs more than my first house -3 times over.GREED.Until this country gets its morals and everything else in order we all are on a sinking ship.No one is at the helm.

    • BSES

      So what should we do? Let the Terrorists invade and kill all of our children as well as the adults?

    • James

      Silvereagle, that’s easy. Inflation is built into the system. No money can come into existence unless one borrows it from the federal reserve system and promises to pay back more than he borrowed. This assures that ever-more money must be borrowed because the total debt always exceeds the money in circulation. This inflates the price of everything until it goes bust (like in 1929 & 2008) then prices return to normal levels. A depression allways follows these busts, in 1945 unemployment was still at 20%.

  • John Dyess

    Was the County employee fired? Should have been. The signers of our Constitution never intended that religion be excluded from schools, and other public forums. If you don’t believe me you need to read the Federalist Papers, “The 5000 Year Leap” It is my opinion that most people would not object to public prayer and public functions.

    • Rod OH

      John, I think you might be surprised at the results if you asked that question. Many, many people feel religion is strictly personal and should never be injected into public and especially the political spectrum. The Republican Party is as good as an example as it gets. People have left it in droves because they pandered to the “religious” extremes of the ledger. Most educated people do not like that at all.

      • John Dyess

        Dear sir I am educated, and a prolific reader. It is documented in the writings of our founding fathers that they did not intend that religion be a private affair. I believe the extreme left is trying to push religion out of public life entirely. It is my belief and opinion that some people try to categorize mainstream religious groups as extreme right wing. This is a lie, and just a way to attack those they don’t agree with. It is my opinion that there are a lot of people out there who like for others to think they are experts on the subject of religion and its role in government when in fact they are simply pushing a personal anti-religious agenda from a background of ignorance.

        • http://personallibertydigest Bell

          Thank you, well said, John.

        • William

          Thank You John, well said.

      • BSES

        “Most educated people don’t like that at all?” Interesting. Is that why 70% – 80%+ of Americans polled state that they’re Christians? Some do feel that religion is personal and many others believe that this country was founded as a Christian nation. But I don’t believe for one moment that 70% – 80%+ of Americans are uneducated nor do I believe that Christians want to kick God out of everything. And, right now, I believe that we’re witnessing people leave the left in droves as they realize the kind of “change” the left had in mind.

      • Stassi

        Exactly! I believe in God. I believe in Jesus Christ. Gill Grissom said it best. I believe in God but not in Relgion. How many people have died in the name of relegion?

        • BSES

          Millions have fought and died in the name of religion. There’s a huge difference in what we’ve always fought for in the USA versus what many other countries fight for regarding religion, though. In the United States we’ve always fought for “Freedom of Religion” which guarantees our right to believe in and to worship our God no matter what religion we happen to be or if we believe in God or religion at all. On the other hand, in many other countries, you either believe in and worship what they tell you to believe in and worship or they may send you to meet God personally.

          By the way, how can you seriously say that you believe in God and Jesus Christ but not in religion? Religion is simply your belief system (i.e. – what you believe about God, Jesus Christ or a higher power – whatever the case may be) which you’ve outlined above by stating “I believe in God but not in Religion.” However, I think your statement about what you believe totally contradicts itself. Perhaps you meant to say that you believe in God and YOUR religion but not other’s religion?

  • John Dyess

    Was the County employee fired? Should have been. The signers of our Constitution never intended that religion be excluded from schools, and other public forums. If you don’t believe me you need to read the Federalist Papers, “The 5000 Year Leap” It is my opinion that most people would not object to public prayer and public functions.

  • SIG

    HOW SAD!..SO MUCH HATE! HATE LIBERALS; HATE SOCIALISTS; HATE OBAMA; HATE MUSLIMS;HATE CLINTON; HATE ANYONE WHO IS NOT LIKE YOU!..(.AND, CALL THEM OBSCENE NAMES WHILE YOU’RE AT IT!)….AND JESUS SAID, “FORGIVE THEM..THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING”.(LUKE 23:34)

    • BSES

      I don’t see the majority of the comments above as hate. I see them as disagreement with policy. In fact, many of the above comments expressed a desire that those that they believe are misguided will open their eyes before it’s too late. How much more can you care about others than to hope that they’ll change and have a good life, especially eternally? I believe that what most are expressing, though, is simply a love of country not hate of others. And I also believe that most Christians love those that they disagree with enough that they pray for them. On the other hand, I really don’t believe that those who express negativity about Christians are necessarily praying for them, in most cases anyway. If we can’t express our opinions without being called hateful or racist then this country truly is in trouble because those that you named in your post are certainly expressing their opinions and it’s mostly very much against God revering Christians and their values.

      • SIG

        I READ ALL THE POSTS AND THIS WAS THE OVERALL IMPRESSION LEFT WITH ME IN THE GREAT MAJORITY OF POSTS…(CERTAINLY PEJORATIVE NAME CALLING WAS ABUNDANT, WHICH IS, IN MY OPINION, A FORM OF HATE)

        • BSES

          I’ve also read all of the posts and my overall impression is that most of the people posting here love God and their country enough to take a stand and fight for both. I agree that name calling is never cool but even God hated evil and many view what’s going on right now as a threat to our freedoms, our values, things we hold dear, our God, Christianity, our families, our way of life and our constitutional rights. And that….. I consider evil. I’m a whole lot more forgiving of someone being a little enthusiastic when truly standing up for all of the above than I am of those who are intentionally trying to destroy all of the above. I feel that our basic values and rights are being threatened and basically attacked and I don’t like any better than anyone else posting here.

        • keith

          blah blah blah can anyone tell we have a libral here people?

    • http://Newsmax Kevin Kilgore

      I will pray for you SIG…apparently you need some prayer. AND an attitude adjustment.

      • SIG

        THANK YOU, DR. KILGORE..YES, WE CAN ALL BE PLEASED TO BE PRAYED FOR, EVEN IF IT IS BY ONE WHO HAS ALL THE ANSWERS AND WHOSE ATTITUDE IS APPARENTLY IMPECCABLE…(BY THE WAY, WHICH ATTITUDE/S DO YOU PRAY GOD WILL ADJUST?)….KEITH: WHAT IS A “LIBRAL?” PERHAPS YOU MEAN “LIBERAL” -JUST AS JESUS WAS/IS….AND ME, TOO!

  • Francisco Almeida ( Brazil)

    .

    I see America is under attack.
    .
    And mostly it comes from inside.

    Seeds of dissent are spreading.

    Constitution is increasingly disregarded.

    Civil liberties gradually removed.

    Just like Hitler rose a false image of an insider enemy (jews), now US Oligarchy raises the false flag of Muslins as enemies.

    Clearly, these eastern-born terrorists are terrorists because they are murderers, NOT because they are muslims.

    The breeding grounds of terrorists are encouraged by the hatred, as common native people became murderers: a Resistance Army to face conquerors, because westerners invade their territory and kill their people.

    There is no God in those hearts.

    Similarly, criminal westerners go to muslim & arab countries to bomb their people and steal their oil, but they do it just because they are criminals and murderers, not because they are christian cruzades.

    There is no God in those hearts, too.

    Both are wearing false covers, they are wolves under sheep’s skins.

    Both are waging a war for wealth, not for faith.

    • William

      If you call paying hundreds of millions of dollars for oil and helping a country when they the people request it evil, then I guess we are evil. Enough said.

      • Francisco Almeida ( Brazil)

        William, thanks for your comment.

        William, even paying for the oil taken , violence is violence … It is NOT of the American People’s nature to invade countries, this is just the power of the so-called “stablishment”, the real rulers behind the curtains … The Corporate America is to blame for this shame, NOT the U.S. People, who statistically have a wonderfull nature and very high moral standards.

        I know that you are NOT part of this evil, William, neither is the vast majority of your populace.

        Seems that the military tour-de-force is to assure that such oil will run towards western spigots – though money is paid.

        The evil side, William – with due respect – is the invasion of their land, and the killing of their children bombarded.

        Moreover, hadn’t they had any oil in those sandy and desertic useless terrains, would Corporate America be there, meddling with their lives?

        The only mistake I indirectly see in your speech, William, is when you call these guys as “we”, when I think that you should start calling them as “they”, just because they are illegal US-born criminal parasites infiltrated in your political and financial system, just to profit from it all.

        They took over your country, William, and your Sheeple should start fighting back, and recover your country back to your children’s possession.

        With due respect, William, a second American Revolution is necessary and coming, and your country afterwards will rise stronger than ever – I believe and hope so.

        Down here in South America, we admire the American People and the American Spirit, the nation which used to be “The Beacon of Values and Virtues”, but … We fear the stealth changes that we have witnessed during the last decades …

        Your Ruling Elite intends to strangle your Civil Liberties and control your country, and then we ask ourselves : after USA people, who will be the next one ?

        • katina

          Well said Fransisco

        • William

          Francisco Almeida, thank you for your comment.

          Francisco, yes the vast majority of American people are not evil, just as the vast majority of Brazil is not evil, just people working every day trying their best to provide for their families.

          The Corporate’s are all over the world Francisco, from the United States, Brazil, Japan, Korea, Europe, The Middle East and dozens of other locations. Within each Country you have your Corporate Elite that thrive’s off just one thing, “more riches” for themselves.

          I served many years in The United States Military Francisco, I have seen battle more than I care to mention. War is terrible at any level and the intense of battle can get very violent, then you add the amount of bullets flying, mortars dropping and bombs falling, yes there will be civilian’s hurt and some killed. War has been around since the dawn of man and will continue until this world ends, that’s one fact no one can deny. Let’s look at the middle east. Yes, The United States did go into Afghanistan only after the terrorist invaded our Country and caused mass destruction that killed thousands of innocent people. The terrorist cowards did hide among the people of that nation which in turn caused them to be hurt and sometime’s killed. These cowards would not stand as an Army or group, they relied on the fact that American Soldiers would not fire on unarmed civilians, then when the soldiers came under fire, of course the soldiers returned fire in order to protect themselves.

          Francisco, if Iraq had not been providing weapons and ammunition to the terrorist or killing their very own people, then The United States would never have put a boot onto their soil. In fact, the bulk amount of money that was spent and is presently being spent has been provided by America and neither Country has even mentioned paying America back even tho their Banks are over-flowing with hundreds of billions of dollars from the sale of oil to other countries. Americans even took on the burden of spending the money to rebuild their cities, take care of their sick and wounded and supply food and clothing.

          As for the socialist taking over America, that will never happen. Eyes and ears are watching every move they make. There are quite a few of us battle harden veteran’s that fully intend to make sure America still stand for FREEDOM and LIBERTY. This republic will remain “FREE” for this generation and for generations to come. This country will always stand against those who would take away our Liberties and Freedom.

  • Rod OH

    I am not sure how to reply to “John” and the other person other than this way , so here goes. John, I do not have any idea the “poll” you are referring to but a poll conducted by a major news channel (maybe two months ago) showed that there are less than 50% of the population who even attend church on a regular basis anymore. And to my other respondent, I do not – and I know many others who think and vote like me – do NOT care what you believe when it comes to religion. We firmly believe, however, it has no place in politics whatsoever. And that goes for what you believe the Founding Fathers intended. To me that is so long ago it is hardly relevant to today’s world and problems we face.

    • BSES

      Let’s see, did I say “those who attend church” or did I say those who identify themselves as Christians? Since when is it a requirement to attend church on a regular basis to be Christian? And I have no idea what major news channel you’re talking about but numerous polls conducted by most of the major news channels show repeatedly that 70% – 80% of the population still identify themselves as Christian. For the record, I do NOT care what your views are on religion either. But I do know this, the farther away we get from what the Founding Fathers intended, the worse things have become. Christianity is evident and interwoven in all of the major documents that our Founding Father’s signed (and in some cases died for) so if we kick Christianity out shall we also throw out everything else, all rights guaranteed by those douments, as well. Or do we just pick and choose based on what you and your friends feel is relevant? It really doesn’t matter whether you think it has a place in politics or not. It’s already there and it has been from the beginning.

      • Rod OH

        BSES, Let me try this again. When a “poll” is conducted like you have mentioned, for people in this country, how else would they answer that question? But what makes the difference on that answer concerning politics? It should not. However there is an extreme “base” of people, primarily in the south and “consertvative” pockets of our country that the Republican Party flat out “pandered to”. To the point that things like “faith based services” was interjected and rejection of embryonic stem cell research was impeded. That is where religion has no place and I mean no place at all in politics. When you elect a leader of a country of approximately 300 million people you better have the most intelligent, open minded compromising human being to help solve the problems of TODAY. The past is just that, the past. Our “Founding Fathers” would totally struggle in today’s world. They never envisioned the size and complexity of our country today. How could they? That is not a criticism of them, it is reality. Likewise, the answers to our problems today will NOT come from the past. That being said that makes many Republican candidates irrelevant for today’s world.

        • DixieConnie

          Rod OH: Most intelligent, open minded compromising human being to help solve the problems of TODAY, is that Obama? Are you kidding? He lies more than Clinton ever did. Double talk.
          Our “Founding Fathers” had more insight in today’s world than you ever will. They had wisdom and vision. I’m proud that they gave us such a strong foundation on which to hang on to and to believe in.
          And just where do you think the answers to our problems today will come from if not from the past? Do you not learn from your past? Yesterday, was the past.

        • BSES

          Well put, DixieConnie! As far as our Founding Father’s struggling in today’s world, it may take them a period of adjustment and they’d probably be quite shocked to see the changes that have taken place since they were around….. if they were to come back. But I believe that they were much, much smarter (especially for their time) than most of us can ever hope to be. I also believe that if they were to come back now, it wouldn’t take them very long to set things right again. On the other hand, it’s us who couldn’t handle what they had to endure for love of country if we could somehow time travel back to their time.

        • Paul Ruby

          Most intelligent, open minded compromising human being to help solve the problems of TODAY, is that Obama? Are you kidding? He lies more than Clinton ever did. Double talk.
          Dixie you left out Bush. He lied a lot too. Oh yeah he’s your hero. sorry.

        • DixieConnie

          Paul Ruby: No, Bush is not my hero. John Wayne is, if you want to really know. However, I think all politicians LIE. If their lips are moving, they are lying. I hate that about them, but its true. And I also know, you can’t please all the people all the time. So what is one to do?
          But I certainly did not vote for Obama. I could not find anything about him to vote for. And Yes, I like what I see and hear from Sarah Palin. So there. Call me what you will. Oh, and I have a son(24yrs old) in the Air Force. He will be going back to Iraq later this year for the 3rd time.

    • William

      Rod OH, thats one of the problems today. Too many of the true American people have forgotten what our Founding Fathers created for us. This Country’s youth can give one more information on Hollywood and music than they can on matters concerning Constitution, Law and The Republic.

      • Paul Ruby

        What is a “True American”? Please explain.

        • William

          Paul Ruby, I have asked a great deal of young Americans if they could reciet the Preamble of our Constitution, some tried and failed others stated they could not while others stated they had no idea what I was talking about. I have asked many young Americans if they knew their Constitutional rights, their knowledge was very limited to no knowledge at all of their rights. I have asked many young Americans if they knew who their elected officials were in Congress and in The Senate, some knew, most did not. College students today know more about Progressive Democratic Socialism than they know the WHY, WHO and HOW this great nation was formed. The true American knows the issue’s before them and they stand ready to defend the RIGHTS, FREEDOMS and LIBERTY given to us by our Founding Father’s and our Fore-Father’s. As Franklin stated to a lady after the signing of the Constitution, the lady ask Franklin; What kind of Country did you give us? Franklin responded by stating; A Republic, if you can keep it. The True American stands ready to defend those Freedoms even if it cost them their lives. I along with countless thousands of others that served this Country took an Oath to Support and Defend this Country, the United States Constitution, The Flag and The American People against all enemies both Foreign and Domestic. This is an Oath I still live by today and I hope and Pray all my Brother’s and Sister’s in Arms still live by it also. I hope all true Americans that still believe in Freedom, Liberty and The Rights of all Americans will have enough courage and honor to stand and be counted among those that stand for This Republic. Also Paul, look at how our government has applied the dumbing down of our youth. if you can’t see it in our schools and places of higher learning then I don’t need to explain. Look at what our present government is doing and bounce that against The Constitution and Federal Law and you will knexactly what I mean, and if you don’t then I will explain further.

        • Bob

          “A TRUE AMERICAN ” is someone who is willing to ,Stand up and fight and Die for if nessessary, for the Constitution that Our Founding Fathers wrote for “All” Americans.
          We Had the Best Country in the World Before they started schredding our
          Constitution.
          This comes from an American who Served His Country Proudly for 13
          years, to reserve the right to tell people that our private lives are our business
          not theirs to meddile in.

    • John

      Rod, OH. Though I may not be the “john” you refer to, let me address a deep concern for your opinion Religion and Politics don’t matter.

      Then I wish to address your ignorant statement of our Founding Fathers where you said, “And that goes for what you believe the Founding Fathers intended. To me that is so long ago it is hardly relevant to today’s world and problems we face”-Rod, OH

      Religion plays a huge part in politics, develops morals, ethics, values. Here’s an example, we took prayer out of schools, we took the bible out of our schools, do you honestly feel our school system has improved with producing good moral, ethical and value driven young kids? I think not. Look at California, huge government, entitlements, and a powerful teachers union, dropout rate in many schools are a staggering 40% or higher.

      And for anyone wanting to be properly educated on our Founding Fathers, I would encourage you to visit and print this PDF file. David Barton is one of, if not thee best historian in the USA. Facts, just the facts. By the way, you will find many “Recent” opinions as to the relevence of our Founding Fathers. Check it out, it’s good to KNOW your history. This government would love for you to remain uneducated about this history, this is how they get to do the things they are trying to do.

      Enjoy, interesting title too. You may need to cut and paste.

      http://www.wallbuilders.com/downloads/newsletter/IsPresidentObamaCorrectIsAmericaNoLongeraChristianNation.pdf

      Is President Obama Correct that America is NO longer a Christian Nation

  • ELLIS

    JESUS SAID LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND THEY WILL COME TOBE YOUR FRIENDS. LOVE IS THE NAME OF THE GAME! WHAT YOUR ENEMIES DO WILL CHANGE WITH GODS LOVE.

    • http://personallibertydigest Bell

      I agree, this is why I call the Bible the book of love. God told his story to Abraham and it was written. Jesus made the ten commandments clearer by saying two statements. Love your God with your whole heart and your whole being and love your neighbor as yourself. Our pupose in life is to Love. Love to me means accepting all people, giving help where I can and praying for others needs where I can’t physicaly help.

    • Stassi

      Or just blow them all seems to work well for the Christians today. Bomb first, talk later. The GW way to be a Christian

      • BSES

        Stassi – I wish you’d move to one of these countries that you think treat their people so well and start making statements publicly like you are here. Wonder what would happen? America has made a few mistakes in our past but our nation is still the greatest nation on the planet. At least we don’t kill our own people and we’ve fought and died for the freedom of others all over the world. The nations that you seem to love and defend kill their own (often for doing next to nothing – if anything – wrong) and they’d certainly give you the ax for less than what you’ve said here. They don’t believe in freedom and they’d certainly never fight for someone else’s freedom. So, even with her few faults, I’ll take the United States of America any day of the week over the rest of the world all put together.

        • Stassi

          BSES
          I know their rules and laws are strict. I know I would not want to live in the Middle East. I know they have very harsh punishments for crimes. But it is their way of life. Who are you to tell them they have been it wrong for 2 thousand years? Who are you to medle in their rigged elections? Was Iran’s election rigged? Sure it was, but why must the US get involed in it? The people protested for day, the supreme leader let them protest until he finally said enough and he put his foot down. The protesting stopped. If these people are not willing to fight for themselfs why should we go in and try to change it? What gives you the right?
          Saddam used chemical weapons on the Kerds (sp?) way back 20 or so years ago. Did the US do anything about it then? Nope. Why? Because they were fighting with Iran and we favored Iraq and Saddam in that war. That was shortly after the whole Iran hostages deal and we wanted to help Iraq defeat Iran. Fast forward 20 some years. The US Can’t find any WMD in Iraq. They were never there, Bush is about to be caught in a huge lie, Hey but Saddam used chemical weapons against his own people 20 years . OMG! We are so outraged! Now that it’s conveintent we are outraged. 20 years ago, we’ll keep it quiet and not say anything, but now it’s the only excuse they can come up with to put Saddam to death. Was he a bad man? YES! Did he deserve to be put to death? I don’t know. Does anyone? He ruled with an iron fist but he knew he had to because look what happened when we took him out of power. Every sect in the country tried to become the ruler and it’s taken what almost 8 years now to get it close to back to civilized.
          I would not want to live in any other country. I do believe this is the best nation to live in. But I also believe other nations such as Iraq and Iran have the right to defend themselves. They are scared of Isreal. They are scared of the US now too. If you were surrounded by hostile nations, just say North Korea was to the north, and the Soviet Union was to the south, wouldn’t you be trying to figure out ways to defend yourself? Would you want have bombs available in case you were attacked? We invaded Iraq, that has to make Iran very nervouse. Now we look like a rouge nation doing whatever we want. It only makes sense that they want to defend themselves. They have that right.
          You accuse Obama of being an apeaser because he wants to talk with nations like Iran. You think that is foolish and we should never even talk to them. But what if we never talked to the Soviet Union? What would have happened if Regan wouldn’t have opened the diolog? What if would have said you communist are wrong, we don’t agree, and invaded Moscow? How do you think that would have turned out? But he talked to them and now look, the berlin wall came down and they are no longer the threat they once were. Although you can’t let the goof balls like GW go off half cocked or things could go bad as they were starting to last year.
          So it’s not that I love these other nations, but it really bothers me that people like you think you need to change them and think it’s your right to change them. They have lived that way for thousands of years, it’s their way of life. It’s up to them to start their revolution if they want to, not us to force it on them.
          You talk about your rights being violated but don’t seem to care about other’s rights. Which is what my original post was all about. If the county had done what they did to a group of Muslims worshiping, would you be as outraged? Be honest. or would you really not care because in your mind they are all going to hell anyway and their rights are just not as important as yours?

    • keith

      did’nt seem to work on hitler did it? tyranny only flourishes when it is not resisted tooth and nail.oh i’m sure the jews who were being roasted in the ovens at dachau and being gassed at treblinka would have loved to have had to relie on you to free them!

  • Esta

    Rod OH, obviously you slept through history class. If you had ever read the Constitution and other founding documents that created our country, you would realize that our country was founded on faith in God. Surprisingly to many people, these documents actually mention God’s name in them. Our first Congress was opened with a very long prayer to our God.

    BSES, you could not have “hit the nail on the head” any better.

    • Stassi

      This country was founded on Christian beliefs. There is no doubt about that. But it was also founded with the law that those that choose to belive in someother than Christians beliefs have the right to do so.
      Seems to me that now the extreme Christians are trying to bring back the crusades and make everyone believe as Christians. The harder you push the harder others are going to push back.

      • Debbie

        Stassi,
        While I believe that your thought process is very one dimensional, you have finally said something I can agree with. Congratulations! To use your own words, “The harder you push, the harder others are going to push back”. Bingo! I believe that is what Christians are doing right now and hopefully it is not too little, too late. We are defending our right to our freedom to have Bible studies in our homes, to have prayer in our schools, to have “In God we Trust” on our money and monuments and to have the right to practice our religion without governement intervention. Which ever God it is that you worship, if you do worship any God, you have been given the right to worship and the government does NOT have the right to tell you or anyone else otherwise. Those are the freedoms that Christians have the right to defend.

      • BSES

        Push away Stassi. I could care less if you believe as a Christian or if you believe as an Athiest or anything in between. You have every right to believe whatever you want to. That’s what we’ve always fought for and what we’re defending now. What you don’t have the right to do is to tromple on our rights or to try to take our rights away. Or…. to try to create new rights for yourself over others. We were all born with the same rights. That’s the way it should be and that’s the way it should stay.

      • keith

        COME AND PUSH AT MY HOUSE AND YOU’LL QUICKLY FIND OUT WHETHER ALLAH IS REAL OR NOT!

      • William

        Stassi, no christian is trying to bring back the crusades. For those who have never been in war I can tell you that it is one of the most terrible actions anyone can experience. I know first hand how horrible war can be and I also know first hand how people that are liberated from tyrants react to their liberaters. I was hugged and kissed om my cheek more time than I cared for by men, women and children after they found out they had nothing more to fear from their violent leaders. Stassi, in the muslem world a woman holds a status just below that of a camel or horse. A woman is not allowed to go outside alone, she must be escorted by a male member of the family. A woman is not allowed to speak when men are talking. If a woman stares at a man in the muslem world she can get the death sentence for that. A woman is not allowed to attend church with her husband, she must attend with other females. When a woman or man is stoned to death in the muslem world, the person or persons to be stoned are buried up their waist in the ground and the fill dirt is packed very tight. If that person/persons does manage to free themselves and can make it to the outside of the circle of people stoning them, then they get to live. According to the koran (The Muslem Bible) all people that are not muslem are infidels and if they will not convert to the muslem belief, then they are to be put to death (and you talked about the crusades.) Muslem Clerics have openly stated at muslem churches here in the United States that America should be destroyed because they are not of the muslem faith (and you talked about the crusades.) Stassi, please do some research on subject matter before you start ranting. Enough Said.

  • Rich

    I’m new to this site.
    I have, do to brevity of time one thing at this time say: Let more “peacbull” Muslims in this country, and watch what happens to your Christian, and American freedoms.
    Look at the trouble other countries are having.
    Wake up and smell the ………….

  • http://www.thehereticandthepreacher.com Bryan Blakeman

    Our 1st Ammendment protects us all. While secular, I don’t want to see the government involved in religion period! I may reject the validity of Christian Dogma, but I will be the first to fight if others, who believe, are being robbed of their 1st Ammendment rights.

    Separation of Chruch and State is a two way street. Freedom of Religion was a founding principle in these United States and that is something we need to protect…for all belief systems – not just the prevailing hegemony.

  • Brenda Hambrick

    You should have an easy connect to Face Book. I would have shared this on my home page…

  • Paul Ruby

    FYI for those that believe in the “Secret Rapture” I hate to tell you my friends but Stassi is correct. The devil has deceived you.

    Who is spreading this false secret rapture theory today?
    In the 1990s, Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins took the future one-man Antichrist idea of Hal Lindsey, Cyrus Scofield, John Darby, Irving, Newman, Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine, and Ribera and turned it into “The most successful Christian-fiction series ever” (Publishers Weekly).

    Hal Lindsey’s book, “The Late Great Planet Earth,” was largely theological, which limited its appeal, while “Left Behind” is a sequence of highly imaginative fictional novels. The television ministries of Jack Van Impe, Peter and Paul Lalonde and Pastor John Hagee have all worked together to produce “LEFT BEHIND: The Movie.” This project even caught the attention of the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, resulting in an interview with LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins on Larry King Live. Left Behind is now teaching much of the same Jesuit Futurism as Francisco Ribera, which is hiding the real truth about the Antichrist. Through Left Behind, Futurism has taken a very strong hold, unleashing a massive tidal wave of false prophecy which is sweeping over the world. Everyone believes movies and books, right? With all the false teaching already circulating on the secret rapture and seven year tribulation period, even though these books are fictional, many have taken them as being greatly truth. Satan continues to clap his hands in glee over just another one of his great deceptions on the Christian world. And as usual, many Christians and even Pastors will not entertain the idea of this being possible as they will not consider the majority could be wrong and so the lie continues to spread like a disease.

    If Christians don’t start waking up to the devils many deceptions, a lot of good people are going to perish. Satan’s deceptions are strong and convincing, but Christ has given us ample information to help us discern truth from error if we will only diligently study His Word.

    Lots more to read. You should prepare for the worst and hope for best. I pray for your souls.
    http://www.secret-rapture.com/

    • Brian Rawls

      Benny Hinn or what ever his name is should be forced to walk through a cancer ward at the local hospital. And when he cant heal people and get them jumping around like he does on his show. Well lets just say he should have a face like Rocky after her faught Apollo Creed in Rocky part 1

      • keith

        HE HAS REPEATEDLY STATED D.A THAT IT WAS JESUS CHRIST WHO DID THE HEALING AND NOT HIM,OR DO YOU NEED HEALING FROM A HEARING PROBLEM?

        • Brian Rawls

          He is a scum bag. He must be dunked in tar are rolled in feathers. Then he must be made to say he is sorry for getting peoples hopes up. He must walk a gauntlet.

      • Paul Ruby

        There you go with the violence again. What is it about violence that you think it will solve everything?

        • Brian Rawls

          Sometimes Paul you have to be violent. Thats just the facts of life. I do not think it solves everything.

  • scott

    The time for the second American Revolution is nearing.

    • jimster

      Yep I can see it coming the changing of the government the American way… Revelution.

      • Stassi

        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

        • Paul Ruby

          Does anyone know what Stassi’s Quote is from?

          Hopefully you can reconize it from The Declaration of Independance.

    • Brian Rawls

      I am with you all the way on that. Plus we can whoop Benny Hinn right in the middle of it for being such a liar. We can take his fancy clothes and give them to the poor. I also have a garden hose that we can use to get the fuel out of his private jet. That will fetch a pretty penny.

      • Paul Ruby

        Sounds like Socialism to me Brian. The same thing your trying to fight. But when it works in your favor you seem to think it’s a good idea.
        Brian Rawls War mongering socialist.

        Death to all that don’t agree with me! Kinda catchy huh Brian?

        • Brian Rawls

          Paul you are crazy. I dont think just because someone is a muslim that they are lower than me or that they should be killed. I also dont think that you can fight a war without civillians being killed. It happens in every war not on purpose. I am not a socialist. I also think your pitch is pretty good. Maybe you should take Billy Mays spot. I bet you can sell a ton of OxyClean. You just might have to take it down a notch.

      • Paul Ruby

        Hey look Brian Rawls is a socialist! He wants to take the clothes from Rich and successful Benny Hinn and give them to poor people. Then steel his jet fuel and sell it. Benny isn’t donating these things, Brian is taking them from him to give away to poor people. Just like old socialist Obama is doing with out tax dollars. Taxing the rich to give to the poor. Who would have thought Brian to be a socialist but his comments sure sound like it to me.
        Please explain Brian if this is not the case. Why do you feel poor people deserve Benny’s clothes? He worked for them. He earned them. Why do you want him to go naked. Oh, naked thats it, tha fascination with men like Barney Frank. LOL
        It’s all good Brian.

        • Brian Rawls

          Hey Paulie why are you the only person that takes everything to heart. If you want to stand up on stage with Benny Im sure he will let you. He will just tell you to grab a wheelchair from the truck thats out back. He might make it dramatic and dump you out of it in front of everyone and tell you that you are healed. If that is your idea of making an honest living than maybe you think al gore is honest too. I hope you are not one of Bennys boys.

        • Brian Rawls

          Paulie you are dramatic. I didnt realize I had these Robin Hood qualities. You are wise like a Buddhist for noticing them.

      • keith

        god blesses those who serve him,why down him,what have you actually done for jesus? how many have you led to christ? how many have you prayed for? what have you done actively to advance the kingdom of god? when have you helped anyone out where helping them would be a inconveniance to you? a worldwide ministry can’t be run on a few dollers,and because the father is blessing him and his ministry in abundance you don’t like it.what,you think god who owns everything should have his servants in rags????? you have never probably been to one of sevices,i would’nt be alive right now if it were’nt for christ,i have been healed of several ailments and jesus himself stated…..
        THESE SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELEIVE,THEY SHALL LAY HANDS ON THE SICK AND THEY SHALL RECOVER,THEY SHALL CAST OUT DEMONS,signs and miricles are normal when coupled with faith in christ,what you calling a god a lier? jesus said:whatever he could do,we can do as well.calling jesus a liar?????
        its easy to sit back and call gods servants vile crap and mock them,if you ever catch a illness or have a accident where you will need jesus to heal you,well then you remember you put your mouth on gods servants.
        jesus stated:TOUCH NOT MY SERVANTS,NOR DO MY PROPHETS NO HARM! you need to watch your words and where you go with them! for every idle word is recorded and you’ll have to give ACCOUNT for them! just a word of warning to you. if you disbeleive gods word thats between you and god,but when you VOICE them in the open like this,god WILL hold you accountable in the day of judgement!

        • keith

          and the scripture is: greater things shall ye do than i have done.
          greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world.
          for WHATSOEVER you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and WHATSOEVER you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
          declare a thing and it SHALL come to pass.
          FAITH as a grain of musterd seed can MOVE a mountain.
          count those things that are not as though they were!
          peters SHADOW from just passing by HEALED PEOPLE.
          I COULD GO ON,but you get the point.
          gods ways are not our ways,his thoughts higher than our thoughts.
          god has chosen the foolish things of the world to CONFOUND the wise.
          they mocked jesus as well when he did healings and miracles and tried to find anyway they could to discredit him,why you doing the same????/

  • William

    Yes stassi, I have heard of all that and believe me it will not fly in this Country. Also, do a little research, you’ll discover that a lot of our problems started with NAFTA and GATT, thats why a lot of American’s are now opposing it. Enough Said.

    • Brian Rawls

      Paul you must have come right out of a cartoon box. Im still thinking that you must have some kind of twisted fixation with Barney Frank. Lmao!!!!

      • Paul Ruby

        What is your fixation with Barney Frank? Or is he the only one in Congress you know because you just heard his name on Fox News yesterday? Personally I think he’s a goof ball and should be voted out of office. He’s part of the problem. I never once brought up Barney Frank or said I agree with him.
        But Brian you keep bringing him up. You know he’s gay? Kinda got the hots for him there Brian? LOL. You seem to be fascinated with the man.

        • Brian Rawls

          Take it easy Paulie. Im not a socialist. I just think Benny Hinn is a liar. I was just making crude humor. I was also just making crude humor about you and the Barney Frank stuff. I was just having a little fun dont get your panties in a bunch. lmao!!!!!!! I sorry if it got to you and I know it did.

        • keith

          this is for brian,not you as i know this will appear right under his last comment…..
          the key word you said was,THINK,you cannot judge the things of god with the human mind or your own wisdom.when you try and perceive the things of god through your own clouded judgement and reasoning you will miss the mark everytime.only the precious holy spirit can reveal what god is doing and who he is using.it is a fearful thing to call a true man of god a liar,you have not only didrespected god and jesus,but the holy spirit who is working through benny hinn.you really need to ask the holy spirit to show you what you have done.
          you are or have went where you really need’nt have gone.you have effectively called a man of god a liar and connotated he has the spirit of satan in him,as scripture says..
          satan was a liar and was a liar from the beginning.if you are a christian then thats good since you can go to god right now and ask him to forgive your blasphemy.you really don’t realize what you have done and god in his mercy will cut you a amount of slack,but now you have been told.if your not saved then well i am not surprised you said that and expect it from a walking dead person.
          may you heed my council.

        • Brian Rawls

          Im very sorry if those things that I have said upset you. Im not buying any of Benny Hinns bull**. Tell me why dont he go to hospitals and heal people? Nobody in their right state of mind can believe this stuff. And oh yes judgment, that I will be. There will also be certain false teachers there as well. They will tell god ( didnt I cast out demons in your name? didnt I lead people to heaven? God will tell them flee from me you worker of inequity I never knew you. He is the wolf in sheeps clothing god warned everyone about. Jesus also went into the temple and overturned the money changers tables.He said why do you make my fathers house a house of merchandise. Every time you see this wolf he is trying to sell a book that he has written. Telling you how to become saved. If im not mistaken this info should not be for sale. It is his duty to teach the word not sell it. He is using gods house as a book store.

  • Oscar Pearson

    Response to Fatima from a couple of days ago.
    First, Islam does not believe in the same god that I do as a Christian, I believe in the God of Creation, Jesus Christ who died and paid for my sins.
    You believe in Muhammed, little god, who was a man, who didn’t create anything and died for nothing.
    Second, your religion declares death to infidels, anyone not believing in Islam. Some peaceful religion you have.
    Third, when discussing Chrsitians and their killing of peoples, that was Old Testatment which you wouldn’t know much about as you read your book, which is not the Book written by God through men who he lead by the Holy Spirit to write His story to all mankind.
    Fourth, every country you have infiltrated has killed it’s own people and anyone else that gets in its way. Real peaceful.
    I could go on and on but in the end you will discover, unless you repent and ask the One True God into your heart, that your choice to believe in a mere man lead you to destruction. We as Christians will pray for you as we are commanded to pray for our enemies and you dear lady as professed by you are our enemy.

    • Paul Ruby

      Oscar Pearson
      My, my such words of hate from a “Christian” person.
      Have you ever studied Islam? Or is all your information coming from Bill O’Riely and Fox News?
      I’m not even Muslim but “Think” I know that Muslim’s do not call Muhammed their god. Muhammed was a profit that brought God’s word to them much like the men that wrote the Bible you refer to. Fatima, Did Muhammed actually write the Koran? I do know that the Koran has been unchange for thousands of years. Unlike the Bible that we Christians have. The Bible has been translated and inturperated and rewritten so many times over the years. Also it was the early Christian Church that decided what should and shouldn’t be included in the Bible. That’s right, men sat down with all the differant gosspils and decided which ones to include and which ones not to include. Most of the gosspils in the Bible were actually written a hundred years or more after Christ had died. I don’t know about you, but I can’t acurately recount what happened 100 years or more ago. This is why there are so many gaps and inturpurations of the Bible. Do you know that the Book of Revelation was almost left out of the Bible? Interesting huh? The one book that every Christian bases the end days upon was almost not included. We aren’t even sure who actually wrote Revelation. All they know is that it was written by a man named John. But it’s not clear who John actually was.
      I’m sure if I really wanted to, (but don’t feel like) I could go through the Christian Bible and inturperate things as very violent just as you can with the Koran.
      You also have to understand the history of that part of the world. I feel that there is no way for someone born, raised and always living in America to understand the Middle East. If America would only butt out of their business over there and let them live their lives we could solve some of the problems. The only reason we need the oil they have is because of greed and politics. And oil is the only interest we really have in the Middle East. But the oil companies pay off the politicans or anyone else that could come up with new energies.

      And Dixie, I ain’t even going to touch the Sarah Palin thing. LOL

  • DixieConnie

    hey Paul Ruby: that’s OK I know from what you write you don’t like her. But you gotta agree, John Wayne was GREAT.

    Even when all of this all goes away, it is good to know people are still thinking, writing and voicing with such passion. God Bless America and our troops.

    • Paul Ruby

      Yes, John Wayne was cool!

      Your son is very brave. Although I no longer agree with the Iraq war I do support our brave troops over there. The Average person has no idea what these people go through fighting war. Which is a big reason I am so against war.

      Read below an Email that was passed along to me the other day. Let me know if you agree or not.

      This is written by a young man serving his third tour of duty in Iraq.

      Thought you might find his take on the Michael Jackson news interesting.

      Okay, I need to rant.

      I was just watching the news, and I caught part of a report on Michael
      Jackson. As we all know, Jackson died the other day. He was an
      entertainer who performed for decades. He made millions, he spent
      millions, and he did a lot of things that make him a villian to many
      people. I understand that his death would affect a lot of people, and
      I respect those people who mourn his death, but that isn’t the point
      of my rant.

      Why is it that when ONE man dies, the whole of America loses their
      minds with grief. When a man dies whose only contribution to the
      country was to ENTERTAIN people, the Amercian people find the need to
      flock to a memorial in Hollywood, and even Congress sees the need to
      hold a “moment of silence” for his passing?

      Am I missing something here? ONE man dies, and all of a sudden he’s a
      freaking martyr because he entertained us for a few decades? What
      about all those SOLDIERS who have died to give us freedom? All those
      Soldiers who, knowing that they would be asked to fight in a war,
      still raised their hands and swore to defend the Constitution and the
      United States of America. Where is their moment of silence? Where
      are the people flocking to their graves or memorials and mourning over
      them because they made the ultimate sacrifice? Why is it when a
      Soldier dies, there are more people saying “good riddence,” and “thank
      God for IEDs?” When did this country become so calloused to the
      sacrifice of GOOD MEN and WOMEN, that they can arbitrarily blow off
      their deaths, and instead, throw themselves into mourning for a “Pop
      Icon?”

      I think that if they are going to hold a moment of silence IN CONGRESS
      for Michael Jackson, they need to hold a moment of silence for every
      service member killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. They need to PUBLICLY
      recognize every life that has been lost so that the American people
      can live their callous little lives in the luxury and freedom that WE,
      those that are living and those that have gone on, have provided for
      them. But, wait, that would take too much time, because there have
      been so many willing to make that sacrifice. After all, we will never
      make millions of dollars. We will never star in movies, or write hit
      songs that the world will listen too. We only shed our blood, sweat
      and tears so that people can enjoy what they have..

      Sorry if I have offended, but I needed to say it.
      Remember these five words the next time you think of someone

      who is serving in the military;

      “So that others may live…”

      Isaac

      • Brian Rawls

        I agree Paul in the support of our troops. I do not believe in the war.

  • Paula

    Wow what a topic, my feeling about the Muslim countries, is that they want to remove those who are not of the Muslim faith which is far different than the complete “submission/peace” noted in another reply. Please don’t insult us with simpleton theories. Just listen to the leaders and what is being said…Kill the non-believers!!!! Can’t mistake that thought now can you.

    • Stassi

      Ypi can not blame a whole culture for the misguided thopughts of a few. After all look at George W. Bush. What a misguided person he is, but you can’t blame all Christians for his doings.

  • Paula

    Our family has always held home church since they do not have a church building and that has been the way from the begining. I would like to see more of you who are outraged at this attack on religion out at the TEA PARTIES come on now lets get with it and make our voices heard…….Get the word out stand up for your principles and values.

  • James

    On May 29, 2009, CAO Walt Ekard said: “I have received dozens of e-mails and calls from people concerned about reports that the County is attempting to muzzle religious expression by shutting down a neighborhood Bible study. As the Chief Administrative Officer of San Diego County, I want to say in the most direct terms: the County has never tried to stifle religious expression and never will. The County responded to complaints from a neighbor about traffic and parking issues resulting from a weekly Bible study held in a Bonita home. This is a land use issue: It’s not an issue of religious expression. We have been working to resolve the matter with the property owner…I deeply regret that a routine code enforcement issue has transformed into a debate over religious freedom in San Diego County.” (For more info, contact Elizabeth Fitzsimmons 619-595-4513.)

  • Cecilia

    FOR STASSI, YOU CAN FIND THE WORD RAPTOURO OR RAPTURO IN THE LATIN VULGATE WHICH MEANS TAKEN AWAY, NOT IN THE NEW TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE.
    FOR STASSI, THE SUPPOSEDLY BABY THAT YOU WOULD RATHER BE RETURNED TO GOD IN THE PROCESS OF ABORTION- you have no right to take that baby’s life and besides have you heard the word ADOPTION if the mother cannot afford to support the baby? There are many couples in this world who cannot have babies.
    FOR STASSI- THE PRESIDENT THAT YOU HAVE VOTED IS TURNING THIS COUNTRY UPSIDE DOWN, CAUSING A LOT OF UNEMPLOYMENT AND UPHEAVAL TO OUR ALREADY SICK COUNTRY.

    FOR STASSI- Remember SODOM AND GOMORRAH? There goes the answer to your gay and lesbian friends. It is their BEHAVIOUR that is sinfuL!

    • Paul Ruby

      Cecilia,
      You can believe your rapture theory if you want. But remember that Jesus told us to beware of false proffits.
      Also, Who’s going to pay for all the babies awaiting adoption? If there are so may people just waiting to adopt then why did I grow up in a foster home? Where were my loving parents to adopt me? Who paid for me in that foster home? The state with tax dollars. Yup a form of socialism. Imagine that. And do you know that black babies have a much harder time getting adopted than white babies? Oh yes it’s an easy cop out to say adoption. But if you’re a mother and just carried a baby for 9 months would you want to just hand it over to someone?
      You know all you bleeding hearts cry about Dr. Tiller killing some 62,000 babies. Did you ever stop to ask why? Why were there so many women coming to him? What was their story? What made them decide that? But when we talk about teaching planned parenthood, and giving out condoms and teaching about birth control you get upset about that. If you can teach people how not to get pregnant then maybe you can slow down the abortion rate.
      Why don’t you go stand out in front of a clinic and tell 1 lady that goes in you will adopt her baby if you care so much. Tell her as soon as it’s born you will take all responsibilty for it. Pay every medical bill, get it off crack it became additced to while she was carring it and take it home and love it. If you care so much why don’t open a foster home? But don’t take any state or federal money because that’s socialism and we can’t have that in America.

  • Cecilia

    For Stassi:
    The rapture theory is not mine. Do you know what a Latin Vulgate is? Let me explain to you what it is thru their website. Latin Vulgate helps you understand difficult verses in the Bible using the original Latin Vulgate as a reference. Sometimes meaning gets lost in the translation. By going back to one of the original texts, you can often figure out the meaning. One of these original texts is the Latin Vulgate written by Saint Jerome. Go to their website and find out for yourself- Latin Vulgate.com
    If you have a pastor he can help you explain the rapture. So you see, your bible came from one of the translations which is the Latin Vulgate, so it is not a false prophet as you claimed.

    I do not know anything about the process of adoption, but I am sure there are reputablle private organizations (if you don’t trust the government), especially christian organizations that can help out women to have their babies being adopted into good homes. You just don’t give them away to someone without checking them out thoroughly. Why would you want babies to be killed? If you are truly a christian, you would shudder even at the thought of it. We have God given rights, but God wants us to use that right in the right way, otherwise we need to relinquish that right back to God as we are just His creation. In every community we have this Pregnancy center that we can go to when that unwanted pregnancy happens and we can get help from them. Yes, we need to educate them how not to become pregnant, but not how the world wants them to be educated. That is why the world has this problem because we refuse to listen to God. Have you heard about Roe vs. Wade ( this is how the abortion started and became legal in US)? That famous Roe in Roe v Wade who is also the Jane Roe is Norma McCorvey. I have an article about her and how she had regretted what she had done and how she had caused a lot of babies be aborted. She is a christian now and her positive transformation is only because she had repented of her sins and turn back to God. I wish I could send you that article, but maybe if you go to American Family Association website and ask for a copy of that perhaps you can get one or google her name and see what comes up.
    I am sorry about what happened to you, but life isn’t fair and we know that, because we live in this world whose prince is satan as Jesus said himself. This is how the world operates without God. You cannot blame yourself or anyone for what had happened to you because this is a FALLEN WORLD. Give your burdens to God and He will comfort you and will give you peace, Matthew 11:28-30. Seek God and forgive your parents who had given you away. It is not easy to do the right thing, that is why we need God so we can do it the way God wants us to do it. Remember we draw our strength from God. Trust Him all the way and ask Him to reveal things to you so you would be helped in your daily walk. Meanwhile, I will pray for you and include you in my prayer list. Be strong Stassi! God sees your pain and your heartaches. He will never leave you, nor forsake you (Jos. 1:5), even in this trying times. God is faithful and He will never turn back on His word.

    • Skippy Horn

      But what if you’re wrong? What if there is no rapture? Things can be inturperated to mean what you want them to. If the rapture is so important then why was it left out of the modern Bible as you claim? How do you know you’re not being decived by the devil? The fact that you feel without a doubt that you are right makes me wonder if you are actually be decived. Wouldn’t it be better to prepare as if there will not be a rapture? I’m not disputing the return of Christ. We know from every inturpertation of the Bible he will return to defeat evil, but I don’t agree in the secret rapture. But hey, you’re welcome to believe it.

  • Cecilia

    TO SKIPPY HORN- The rapture is not secret; only the word “rapture” is not found in the english translation of the bible. Go to 1Thess. 4:14-18, 1Cor. 15:50:54 (the answers you are looking for are all there).

    Please read them. If you still have doubts, go to the internet and type”rapture” and see for yourself what they say about it. A pastor or a minister of a bible believing church can help you out on this. I pray that your search will culminate in making you a stronger believer in Christ. God bless you!

  • Cecilia

    That response I made for Stassi is supposedly for Paul Ruby. I am sorry that I misread the name or I didn’t even bother to look at the name, because I thought I was answering Stassi. My apologies to you Paul Ruby.

  • Skippy Horn

    Cecilia,
    This is only part of what I found.

    Does the Bible teach there is a Rapture?
    This is a brief point by point account of the order of events according to Scripture; there is Christ’s second coming, the resurrection, the catching up of the saints to meet Jesus in the air which all take place at the same time and at the end of the world. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 28:20 “…and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.” Why would Jesus promise to be with the Church until the end of the world if He intended to come seven years before the end to take them out of the world? The promise would then have no meaning.

    This false doctrine on the secret rapture is contradictory to the words of Jesus in Matthew 13 when He said the wheat and tares would grow together until the “end of the world” and then would be separated. According to this dual coming secret rapture theory, both groups would not grow together until the end of the world. The righteous would be separated from the wicked seven years before the end. And what about the promise of the resurrection? Christ said, concerning the righteous, John 6:40 “…and I will raise him up at the last day.” No one denies that this means the last day of the world. Paul declares the saints are caught up to meet the Lord at the “same time” the dead in Christ are raised. He says, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” Did you note that Jesus called this resurrection the “last day?” But how could it be the “last day” if this gathering of the saints takes place seven years before the end of the world? And how could the “last trump” (see 1 Corinthians 15:52 below) sound if it really wasn’t the very last moment of time? Imagine the graves opening and the righteous rising and no one knowing that it had occurred? Consider also the added testimony from God’s Word;

    Matthew 24:27 “For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”

    Matthew 24:30 “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

    Matthew 24:31 “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.” (This is clearly the time when Christ comes to gather His saints.)

    1 Corinthians 15:52 “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

    Revelation 1:7 “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”

    Revelation 6:16-17 “And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

    There is no understood scripture that says the second coming of Christ to gather His saints will be a secret rapture. All these verses show it will be a very loud and very visible event that every eye shall see. There is nothing secret about any aspect of His coming. Those believing in the secret rapture sometimes quote Matthew 24:40-41 out of context. The entire passage reads;

    Matthew 24:37-41 “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”

    Jesus is demonstrating the parallels between the days of Noah and the second coming of Christ. The eight that entered Noah’s Ark were saved and those that scoffed perished as the flood “took them all away.” Many have been taught that the ones taken are the ones saved but note it is actually the ones taken that are destroyed. There was no second chance. Jesus said and “so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” The last verse of this chapter tells us what will happen to those who are taken to destruction. Matthew 24:51 “And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

    Those believing in the secret rapture also quote Jesus in saying He will come as a thief in the night, meaning it will be a secret rapture. Jesus said in Matthew 24:43-44 “But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” Jesus is not talking about coming secretly but coming unexpectedly when we least expect Him and so the wicked will be taken by surprise. This is why Jesus tells us to be ready as we know not the hour of His return. Those who are not right with Christ and living wickedly when Jesus returns we will be taken to destruction as in the days of Noah. See Matthew 24:37-41 above. See also 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

    • James

      Skippy H., Well stated! And Amen! I would just stress that those caught up and changed to immortals, along with those of that first resurrection, will then reign with Christ, here, on earth for one thousand years (Rev. 20:4-6). This Second Coming of Christ is at the end of Armageddon (Mt. 24:29-30) and His dethroning and imprisonment of Satan (Rev. 20:1-3) signal the empowerment, here, of the Kingdom of God which was to come “in earth, as it is in heaven” (Mt. 6:9-13). That is, those in the ‘rapture’ remain here on earth with Christ.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUzzkT3wKZc Skippy Horn

    Check out the You Tube Video Link below. When you listen to Neil sing pay attention to the words starting about half way through. I think it sums things up pretty good about who we are and how we should treat each other.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUzzkT3wKZc

  • http://www.yahoo.com/?fr=fptb-msgr Jean

    Many people who don’t believe in GOD will never know the power and love he has for his children.The power of prayer and with GOD’S help can move mountains.Also stated in scripture by GOD TOUCH NOT MY ANIONTED.He will protect his own.The word of GOD will be spread all over the world because that is his will.Nothing or No-One can or will interfere with his over all plan.He gives us the power to stop our enemies and what we can’t do GOD WILL.I’m thankfull for the answer to prayer for this family and their Bible Study.People are HUNGRY for TRUTH not for food but for the WORD OF GOD as he says in his letter to us and teachers of his word FEED MY SHEEP.We are in exciting times those that understand scripture know we as his children have nothing to fear and know we stand against those against GOD we will have the VICTORY.WATCH WATCHMEN WATCH.Prophesy is being fulfilled as we live in these turbulant times but know greater things are coming.
    GOD BLESS
    Please pray for those that are lost,
    Pray for our leaders,
    Pray for our Nation,
    Pray for all people around the world who are suffering right now for being outspoken for GOD.

    • James

      Jean, Christ’s disciples were all of the two-tribe House of Judah. When they were all assembled, Matthew 10:5-6 reads: “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” The ten-tribe House of Israel were scattered in northern europe, Greece, and Britain, only the woman-by-the-well, in Samaria (the old homeland of the House of Israel), and her family and friends, there, were in Palestine at that time.

  • http://www.yahoo.com/?fr=fptb-msgr Jean

    I have to let those who talk about Rapture it is not mentioned in the Bible.GOD is bringing his KINGDOM HERE.The anti-christ comes first speaking of the FLY AWAY DOCTRIN.GOD SAYS I’AM AGAINST THOSE WHO TEACH MY CHILDREN TO FLY TO SAVE THIER SOULS.That is why I study with Shepherds Chapel they teach chapter by chapter and verse by verse the way GOD says to read it not traditions of man.When some talk about meet him in the clouds have to take it back to the Hebrew meaning in the Strongs Concordance CLOUDS (crowd ).People are not being taught Satan comes at the Sixth Trump CHRIST comes at the Seventh.

    • James

      Jean, in the KJAV, 1Thess. 4:15-17 reads: “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [precede] them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with Lord.” (Bold added.)
      The ‘caught up’, there, is where ‘rapture’ came from. These verses speak for themselves. They are about the Second Coming of the Lord; the first resurrection of the dead; and the rescuing of those “which are alive.” This will be the beginning of Christ’s one-thousand-year reign here (Rev. 20:4-6).

      • Billy Wells

        I do not doubt that Jesus Christ will return. however a lot of people are being taught that Christ is going to come and remove them from earth before the start of the tribulation period. However there is nothing mentioned in the Bible about this so called rapture or a 7 year tribulation period. The truth is that we are all stuck here until the return the Christ. He is not going to rescue some people first and then return. Those that feel he is going to rescue you before things get really bad are being deceived by the devil. Plus also too, No one knows when he will return. It could be tonight, it could be 1,000 years from now. You need to live your life the way Christ taught us to live. Treat others with love and respect no matter who they are. That Means, Christians, Jews, Muslims, White, Black, Gay and Straight. We are all God’s children and you those of you that are so sure he is going to rescue you better wakle up before it’s too late.

        • James

          Billy W., I agree completely with that, those ‘caught up’ and rescued are not, then, wafted off to heaven. This rescuing is “after the tribulation” (Mt. 24:29-30) and is the beginning of Christ’s reign here. Rapturists teach this ‘caught up’ event is before the big war, not so. It is after Armageddon and only involves a comparatively small group. What makes it unique is that they are changed, in the twinkling of an eye, to their new bodies. True, we don’t know when that will be but I do believe we’re on the brink of Armageddon. And I do live my life as our Lord taught. Like John said (1 John 5:12-13) (2 John 9-11).

    • James

      Jean, the “anti-christ” is here now, at least according to John, he wrote: “Little children…as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists…They went out from us but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they wee not all of us” (1 John 2:18-19). And: “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son” (1 John 2:22). That says anti-Christs have been with us for the entire Christian era. (It should be noted that John wasn’t referring to non-Christians, he was referring those among them who had witnessed Christ’s many miracles, but still denied that He is the Christ, i.e., Incarnate God.)

  • Rebekah

    I first met Jesus Christ as a nine and ahalf year old little girl living in a home filled with chaos. I then had an encounter with Satan before turning ten. By the time I was eleven I had been abducted by aliens (I Thought) I was nearly destroyed by the forces of darkness and would not be here today if Jesus was a Man that He should lie. He Himself told me my life would be hard but if I did not lose faith in Him He would see me through it. Unknown to me but very well known to Jesus I had been born into a bloodline the Illumanti and from the descendants of Caine they have practiced witchcraft and Santanic worship. I had no idea but Jesus Christ did and He knew before I was ever placed in the womb of my mother just what I would endure. I have suffered and I have endured. The first thing Satan stole from me was that morning I first encountered Jesus. Mohammad may have recieved a revelation but it was not Gabriel who gave it it was Satan. I have been tracked, programmed and tormented nearly all my life to come out of it to say this. There is only one God and one name alone by which man is saved and it is Jesus Christ. God blessed this nation and this nation has turned its’ back to God. We told Him we did not want Him in our goverment, schools, ect. Being the God of freewill He was gracious to give us what we asked of Him. Now we have politicians many of who serve Satan and are working feverishly to bring about a New World Order. We have a choice turn back to Him or perish. If everyone could see what He shows me in night visions it would be a different world. The church is not without blame even it is infiltrated by evil, God said the power of life and death is in the tongue. The church speaks death and doom on the world when we could just as well speak life and healing. Jesus also said I give you power and dominion over all power and principalities of darkness. I asked Him why then were we not defeating the enemy and He told me it was because we underestimate him. Hence my destiny and purpose. I have come out of my life knowing the secrets of darkness. More than that if Jesus can save the daughter of the devil himself He can save anyone and oh how He yearns that none should perish. May cries for mercy fill Heaven and may we fight against the forces of darkness wherever they try to hide and decieve. Our nation’s capitol is full of corruption and evil. I tell you this if the American people would do some research on those we have made our leaders they would be shocked at the things they are doing to people in their secret places from their secret societies. I was one of those and I am trying to complete a book now that Jesus spoke to me some time ago. Islam is not a peaceful religion. Many are decieved that practice it. Remember Satan himself comes as an angel of light. He knows very well how to pull people away from the trruth and then he snares them in a net. Go to SHADOWFAXREPORT.com and sign the petition. We must fight the good fight of faith and run our races. To not fight for our God given rights is sin and insult to the one and only KING of Kings and LORD of Lords. May the God of Heaven earth and all that is in it have mercy on our souls.God Bless.

  • EspirituSanto

    The one who the Islamic Muslims call Allah is actually the person we who are Christian call the anti-Christ. There is only One true God and that is the Lord God Almighty of the Holy Bible. They can not have a life affirming personal relationship with a god who is doomed to destruction. If you were to Ask any true Islamic who follows the dictates of the Quran they believe in a Mahdi who is the exact carbon copy of the Antichrist. The true Islamic merely tolerate us the infidels, until the coming of their prophet. Mo-hammed was one of many Mohammedans . Although most of “us” of the Christian belief are ignorant of their religion. That is why the true Islamic are not concerned with us- American-Christians.We are too ignorant of the facts to be a threat to their demonic obsession and why the ones who are mere Initiates ( Osama Bin Laden) are the ones trying to destroy the Ones (Messianic Jews) who know the truth of the Old Testament as well as the New Testament are spreading the Gospel to unconverted Muslims. Because in our ignorance of true Islamic Muslims are waiting for their day of true unrest will take place. That is when all non Muslims have to be eliminated. The truth is in Jesus. To know more I am reading a book on the subject. Gods War on Islam, is the book I am researching along with My KJV Bible. The Truth will set you free as long as you are strong enough and can face it with Godly discernment.
    Christ’s Ambassador

  • Gene Haga

    Our freedoms in the United States are under attack from several angles. We the people need to be informed and help others to be informed of the attacks on our freedoms. We need to ensure we vote for canditates that openly not just say they support our views of the freedom of religion, the right to bear arms, and to defend the contitution in its original form and intent. We can not allow individuals, representatives, or governments whether local, state or federal to deminish our rights and freedoms.

    Be knowledgeble, speak out peaceablely and know who is running.

  • http://www.cdpdmin.org Charles Downing

    The conclusion of the matter. There is only one God and that is the God of the Christian Faith. All other religions and faiths are false and demonically inspired. Lest face it Christianity is intolerant of all other religions and so should it be. The Bible (Christian) whether you believe it or not does not change the truth. We (true Christians) do not wish to kill or destroy people we simply want them to see the Truth and come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. I realize by some I will be blasted for believing and saying this. But, that is fine. Truth is truth. There is no such thing as “The Brotherhood of Man” or that we are all God’s children. Those are purpetrated lies to lead people away from truth. Yes, God loves all people, but does not tolerate sin or disbelief in His Son Jesus Christ. I pray for everyone who does not believe to come to know the truth. I do not want to see them destroyed by any means or methods.

    So I use my freedom to say this and honor this right. I pray that it stays that way.

  • Tom

    Ya know Charles…religion is just a system of worship devised by man. And man…quite often get it all wrong.
    I believe in Jesus also, but I could never say all other religions are demonically inspired.
    Perhaps certain people are just misled?

    Lots of people are mislead, especially many Christians.
    Far too many misguided people get some idea in their heads and refuse to see the light of day.

    Take those misguided fools who believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old. You cannot tell them its not, they will call you stupid, they will say you are an atheist and are going to Hell. They cling to this belief and will not even consider any other possibilities.

    By actually reading the Bible myself, I see their whole belief system fall apart. Don’t these so called Christians even read the Bible? They are so quick to quote parts of it….

    Read this…

    Young Earth Theory is contradicted in the Bible itself.

    Young Earthers or YEC’s falsely claim the Earth and all of Creation is 6,000 years old. They get this by adding up all the years of everyone who lived from the time of Adam onward to a known point. Since the Bible states that man was created during the 7 day creation period, along with everything that exists, therefore then the world is 6,000 years old.

    But even as unclear as the Bible is, it gives a clearer picture than the SCREWBALL theory offered by so many die hard Young Earth believers.

    Read this closely….

    On the 4th day of creation…THE 4TH DAY!

    And God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth.

    Obviously, the first 3 days of creation were measured by something other than the Earth rotating on its axis in relation to the sun. Because the Sun was not created until the 4th day. The light that was created on Day One was obviously NOT the sun.

    As it states in Chapter 1 Verse 14, God created “lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And he did that on the 4th day. Our sun was created on the 4th day of creation.

    Our 24 hour Earth day is determined by the size of the Earth, and the speed in which is spins on its axis.
    So if God was not using OUR sun as a measurement of a day, how long then is one of God’s days? It could be 250 million years. No one knows. Young Earthers certainly do not know. The Bible does not tell us.

    Its in THEIR Bible. They claim to be Christians? Didn’t they even read it?
    Young Earthers claim to be smart. Can’t they understand it?

    There will be people who will somehow tell me I am wrong. LOL!!!

    Young Earth Theory has here and now been DISPROVEN.

  • dr reality check

    Home Bible studies occur in every town of the country. Since when is it legal to require a permit by the Govt to follow the First Amendment? San Diego? Whose running their county govt? Stalin? If this was a true story, the implications are frightening.

  • Kent

    Hey GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS ever looked at the CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHT S OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ?? Not up for your petty interpretation !!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://pickleballpaddleshop.com/tag/mesh/ pickleball paddles

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  • John Dyess

    Dear sir I am educated, and a prolific reader. It is documented in the writings of our founding fathers that they did not intend that religion be a private affair. I believe the extreme left is trying to push religion out of public life entirely. It is my belief and opinion that some people try to categorize mainstream religious groups as extreme right wing. This is a lie, and just a way to attack those they don’t agree with. It is my opinion that there are a lot of people out there who like for others to think they are experts on the subject of religion and its role in government when in fact they are simply pushing a personal anti-religious agenda from a background of ignorance.

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