Rush: Conservative Credibility Absent In Pop Culture – And That’s A Problem

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How is it that conservatives dominate talk radio, nonfiction book sales and, in large measure, network news (largely because of the Fox News juggernaut) – yet can’t mount a successful National political campaign to place even a nominal conservative in the White House?

Rush Limbaugh observes that conservatives – especially real conservatives – have no credibility among consumers of more overtly entertainment-oriented mass media. Movies, music, scripted television, fiction writing – that sort of thing.

In short, conservatism’s first-sight glance isn’t cool.

It’s true that many people who gobble up the low-hanging fruit provided by the Miley Cyruses and Michael Bays of the world aren’t interested in the authentic “coolness” of living a life guided by rugged adherence to a conservative code. Personal discipline is tough and doesn’t pay instant dividends the way mindless consumption does. After all, it’s a lot easier to kick back with a pizza and cheer for (or against) Nick Saban’s well-oiled machine on Saturdays than to spend that same time cultivating a talent of your own; one that could allow you the chance to become a well-oiled machine in your own endeavors.

But not everything about conservatism is inherently incompatible with consumer culture. And there’s no reason why the too-often clumsy aesthetics attached to conservative media appearances (have you seen the fit of Rand Paul’s suits?) have to stick out with such conspicuous awkwardness. A good book isn’t harmed by having a beautiful cover, and that’s a message Limbaugh drives home:

How do elections happen the way they do? We own books; we own talk radio; we own cable news. Well, the answer is, we’re nowhere in the pop culture. We are nowhere in movies. We’re nowhere in television shows.  We are nowhere in music. Nowhere!

That’s a slight exaggeration. Somebody’s watching Duck Dynasty, and there are plenty of people out there who like Ted Nugent’s music. But Limbaugh’s general message is right on target.

 

Personal Liberty

Ben Bullard

Reconciling the concept of individual sovereignty with conscientious participation in the modern American political process is a continuing preoccupation for staff writer Ben Bullard. A former community newspaper writer, Bullard has closely observed the manner in which well-meaning small-town politicians and policy makers often accept, unthinkingly, their increasingly marginal role in shaping the quality of their own lives, as well as those of the people whom they serve. He argues that American public policy is plagued by inscrutable and corrupt motives on a national scale, a fundamental problem which individuals, families and communities must strive to solve. This, he argues, can be achieved only as Americans rediscover the principal role each citizen plays in enriching the welfare of our Republic.

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  • Chester

    Rush’s problem is Rush himself. He talks the good, conservative talk, but sure doesn’t walk the walk. Watch what he does and ignore what he says, and you have a full blown liberal consumer. Actually, in a lot of ways, he exceeds the normal liberal consumer, mainly because he gets all those good conservative dollars from all those advertisers.

    • Deerinwater

      A thumb sucker! and if that thumb is not available something else must provide.

      • hardh8

        You a mentally ill old man.

        • Deerinwater

          attack the message

    • ChiefBoring

      Rush enjoys the fruits of his honest labors; what could be more conservative than that? He’s the poster boy for capitalism, for goodness’ sake! Are you jealous? Envious?

      • Deerinwater

        Capitalism and Christianity is a odd mix of conflicting ideas. That we claim with pride to be a nation founded on Christian principles while embracing Capitalism has never stood up to the naked light on day, ~ try as we may.

        Mark 13:22

        For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

        Proverbs 6:16-19

        There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

        James 4:11

        Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.

        All this honest hard work Rush has been doing in self promotion by applying Capitalism and promoting Capitalism, centers on a promoted discord, disharmony even if it means harsh judgement and bearing false witness.

        Envious, jealous? ~ just saddened that someone has strayed so far into the darkness and shares the devils campfire light with such jubilation.

      • Chester

        Actually, Rush is more like a Pat Robertson in that he asks you to do as he says, not as he does, then makes a not so small fortune when the gullible fall for his line. If he were doing quietly what he does in public, he would be facing charges of running a high grade scam, just as a lot of so-called preachers should be.

  • mark

    How could conservatives possibly have any cultural stature in our society? All they preach is hate, fear, and intolerance. They are the party of hate: hate immigrants, hate blacks, hate Hispanics, hate women, hate Muslims, hate unions, hate Obama, hate everyone who isn’t a white male hater.

    • JimH

      I consider myself a conservative and I don’t “hate” anyone.
      I strongly disagree with some people, but I wouldn’t say I “hate” them.
      I don’t know where you get your ideas about conservatives from, but you are truly misguided.
      Maybe you “hate” everyone who disagrees with you and think we are all that way, you hater.
      It all depends on your definition of hate.

      • Ronr

        I think he means the extream of the party. The extream right who consider Jack Kemp , and Ike conservatives RINO. Though they are less than 2 % of your party they are the loudest and studio activist like Russ, and others line their pockets and fly in private jets while the 2%hijack the party. When Colin Powell is looked down on for and by tge likes of a Liz Cheney, we all wonder. Nothing wrong with the party except that the majority of Americans are not extream right wing.

        • JimH

          No, he doesn’t say extreme. He just accuses “conservatives”.
          He may just be throwing things out there to see if he can get a rise out of someone.
          If not, he is showing his “extreme” ignorance about a whole group of people.

        • name

          Uh…, NO!! You are not a conservative. YOU and the ilk are nothing but conservative in name only. pushing the same progressive agenda. The tipping point has been reached. Those of us, that are TRUE conservatives will not flinch, not bow down, and NOT bow out. We will run your sorry communist, socialist, fascist, marxist axx, out of town! Do you get it yet? I am living with you sorry losers that migrated to Colorado to escape the hell holes you created in other parts of the world. YOU have a WHOLE lot of HELL coming your way if YOU and your ilk don’t stand down! WE will right this ship and we will send you to Europe or to some other country where YOU belong.!!

          Whether you like it or NOT!!

          • Deerinwater

            Mmmmmm ~ ? If you are offering us an example of “Conservative Thought, Ideas and Intentions”

            I say to you ~ Bring it ~ we can get this over very quickly.

            Jump on out there and show us how it’s done.

          • mark

            Thanks, name, you just proved my and Ronr’s point better than either of us ever could. And congratulations because you are the future of the conservative movement. This is where your party is headed – for long-term minority status and growing irrelevance on the U.S. political scene.

          • Karolyn

            “No, you are not a conservative; I’M a conservative. You’re a liberal.” lol What blathering. It is so funny. It’s like Christians telling other Christians that they are not Christians. There are degrees of everything. Some are more conservative than others. Some are extremists. Boxes need to be abolished and people taken at face value. Why does everybody have to be labeled? We need to get beyond that.

      • mark

        Just turn on talk radio, just read this blog, just watch FOX – and the majority of what you hear is hate and fear, fear and hate. The last great and successful American conservative leader was Ronald Reagan. And one of the main reasons he was so successful was because he had an upbeat, positive message, a sunny attitude, and he really liked people. I certainly didn’t agree with many of his policies but I can see the secret of his success: his was a message of optimism and faith in the future. Conservatives have no leaders like him today – just fear-mongers and haters. Until they change, they will never capture the White House again. Because the majority of Americans are not haters and are not consumed with fear especially women who bring life into this world and want their children to grow up in a world of compassion and caring. But that is all just a joke, something to laugh at, to ridicule and spit upon by so many conservatives today. It’s really sad but this is the political reality of the GOP.

        • JimH

          I agree about Reagan. He had an upbeat way about him that was contagious.
          There is a difference from warning about something that is hurting the country and”spreading fear”.
          My point is disagreement isn’t hatred.
          I oppose Obama, not because I hate him. I oppose him because I believe the path he wants to take this country down is wrong. It’s because I “love” my country, not hate for him.
          I don’t “hate” immigrants. If you came in legally, welcome to America. If not go back and try again. No hatred.
          Blacks or Hispanics I get along with most, some are thugs. Every group has them. Being aware of that isn’t hatred.
          Hate women, I’m married to one and love her with all my heart. There are women conservatives, do they hate themselves?
          Muslims. I don’t think all 1 billion of them are evil.but there are some that “hate” us and want to kill us. We should beware of them. Warning Isn’t fear mongering.(talk about a group that hates women though)
          Unions. I disagree with “some” of what they do. Some of their tactics are thug like or bullying. I don’t “hate them. Just disagree.
          Like anything you will find some that are more extreme than the rest. It’s just the extreme ones are given more attention than the reasonable ones.
          Conservative Ideas aren’t wrong, Reagan proved that.
          Don’t be mislead by media people that are looking for ratings. They aren’t the real people.

          • mark

            The Republican Party and the conservative movement need more people like you, Jim. With voters like you they can make a comeback and contribute to our political process.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        I hate people who steal my money and then try to take the moral high ground. They are disgusting vile creatures, as well as being Criminals:
        http://mises.org/daily/4125

        • JimH

          Hi Dave, Thanks for the article. It is interesting.
          I hate that this is happening, but I more feel disgust than hate for the people doing it.
          Hate(at least my definition of it) is a heavy burden to carry around and it will eat you up inside. Quite frankly they’re not worth it.
          You don’t need hate to oppose them.

    • Frank Kahn

      Actually, it is the liberal left that hates so much. But they only hate anyone or anything that disagrees with them.

      • Deerinwater

        Right! and explains why you enjoy being so disagreeable, purely an unselfish act on your part and for the benefit of others.

        • Frank Kahn

          Hey, I refrained from explaining the stupidity of your other post here. I disagree with your entire fantasy distorted view of the human condition. You spew things that any normal human can tell is so far from the truth that it is hard to imagine the mind that could conceive it.

          Thumb sucker? what kind of stupid analogy is that? Maybe you were thinking of Obama and it wasn’t thumbs you meant.

          • Deerinwater

            oops! I disagreed with Frank!

            Oh dear! me oh my ! ~

            Well, ~ I expose you as a two faced hypocrite quick enough.

            And the fetish of oral gratification is there with Rush and “tain’t no” analogy

          • Bob666

            Yo Deer,
            How dare you disagree with the wise old sage who has knowledge on loan by god!

            BTW-you were charitable, I would say that he might be in sync with 8%-10% of Americans and many of them are suffering from dementia in a “home”. Don’t get him started on the neighbor’s cat or he will start using ALL CAPS IN HIS RESPONSE.

          • Deerinwater

            I thought that I was being rather generous as well. Your numbers are probably more accurate. if you figure 27 % of the GOP vote is hard core. ~ Of that 27% ~ 17% could qualify as rational normal people, leaving 10% that would vote for Donald Duck.

            This 27% ~ for all practical purposes is untouchable, any reaching out ~ would be viewed as an “attack”. ~ This leaves us somewhere along the lines of 17% of the conservative vote that can be appealed too and work with.

            I’m always amazed as to how small the final voting margins are. I suppose this is the magic needed and offered by the electoral college. Block voting ~ predicated by population and voting districts.

            The GOP has been busy with their skunk works in many states with redistricting the recent few years. ~ Seems they given up with the idea of appealing to more voters and decided to limit and restrict the DNC vote instead.

            It’s comical.

            Oh! did you hear about Utah’s requiring drug testing for Welfare results? ~ State wide they actually caught 12 people that came up “dirty” ~ The test is 150 dollars, that’s $1800.00 less administration cost. welfare is what $900.00 ? ~ that’s $10,800.00 dollars less the 1800. spent .

            That’s a 9,000.00 savings by the state for one month. ~ and think of all the jobs that it created!

          • Bob666

            Yo Deer,
            Our “illustrious” Governor Scott here in Florida had that same bright idea to test all recipients of assistance for drugs as well and I believe the positive results were less than 1% and the program was scraped.

            While I do believe that many on welfare will never have the drive to work and take care of themselves, most would and have worked when there is an opportunity to work. The problem with the GOP is they have molded the perception that 47% of our population want to live off of the 53% that works and pays taxes and the facts don’t support that perception.

          • Deerinwater

            Exactly Bob. ~ Far too many “self proclaimed conservatives” ~ can’t, won’t or simply refuses to set down , gather the facts and merits of an issue and makes focused and sound decisions to address the issues in some thoughtful manner.

            They seem to assume that they already know all the answers, commit to a solution and act in knee jerk fashion. Then have the absurdity to blame everyone but themselves for their failures. Rather to believe some has sneaked a turd in their pants rather to accept the fact that they placed it there themselves.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Deer, you are a long way from being able to legitimately decide who is rational and normal.
            Personally, when I read your posts, I think you must surely be drinking while you comment. Your comments are generally obtuse and rambling.

          • Deerinwater

            Thank you David, that’s a huge compliment coming from you.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You’re a hater, Deer. Wah!

          • Deerinwater

            Then offer this board an example of “my hate”, or put a sock in it David.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I’m doing my best imitation of you Liberal Progressives, Deer. You can’t handle it? Too bad.

          • Frank Kahn

            A vague innuendo, I made no statement that could be considered hypocritical.

          • Deerinwater

            Hahaha! ~ Right ! Racism and hypocrisy are invisible to those practice it, which makes it seem non existent while clearly it is there.

            You are attacking me with your hate for opposition while you make the statement some 6 posting up “Actually, it is the liberal left that hates so much. But they only hate anyone or anything that disagrees with them.”

            I had not show you any “hate” while you would claim all that appose you are immoral.. ~

            If that is not an example of Hypocrisy and being godlike, ~ I don’t know what is.

          • Frank Kahn

            I know that you are totally incapable of reason, but I will continue to try and educate you in human thought.

            “Hahaha! ~ Right ! Racism and hypocrisy are invisible to those practice it, which makes it seem non
            existent while clearly it is there. ”

            Hahaha, racism is only obvious to liberal idiots. Hypocrisy is their stock in trade.

            “You are attacking me with your hate for opposition”

            Once again you make a liberal statement, are you sure your not a liberal? There was no hatred in my post. Only a twisted liberal considers it to be hatred or racist to oppose someones views.

            “while you make the statement some 6 posting up “Actually, it is the liberal left that hates so much. But they only hate anyone or anything that disagrees with
            them.”

            That is neither hateful nor hypocritical, it is a provable fact that liberals hate to have anyone say anything that is contrary to their immoral BS.

            “I had not show you any “hate” while you would claim all that appose you are immoral.. ~ ”

            More liberal drivel from you. I said that their ideas are immoral, not that it was immoral to oppose me.

            “If that is not an example of Hypocrisy and being godlike, ~ I don’t know what is.”

            And, you finally admit to your own ignorance. There is no hypocrisy involved in condemning liberal policies as immoral. Nor does it take a god complex to see the truth in nature.

          • Deerinwater

            Hahaha! If you continue to dig this hole Frank , we are not going to be able to see the top of your head ~ about the only thing left for me to do is, ~ cover it over.

            Frank says, “That is neither hateful nor hypocritical, it is a provable fact that liberals hate to have anyone say anything that is contrary to their immoral BS.”

            Well , clearly you have proved something Frank. ~ Let’s us agree on that.

          • Deerinwater

            I think your 1st mistake was assuming the company of a majority of what would be called normal Frank.

            For you are not “normal” ~ but share company with 20% of the population.

            Think of that as a compliment if you wish.

          • Frank Kahn

            More, fantasy from you, normal is defined by the majority, so it is impossible to have a minority of normal. Actually it is entirely possible to have the majority of humans acting abnormal. The difference lies in the concept of normal itself. This is where your ephemeral ideas waver away from normal.

            You constantly, incorrectly, ASSUME, that conservatives (republicans) are always wrong. They, as a group, are not wrong. Most good ideas, pertaining to the economy, are what are classified as conservative. What happens with POLITICIANS, of all sides of the issue, is that they pander to their owns self interests, and not to the true ideologies of their base.

            Leftist liberals are the worst in this respect. No matter how often history shows their policies to have failed, they continue to push their destructive agenda on the people.

            Morality is not something that is legislated, or based on personal emotion, it is what is known to be good for the civilization. Anything that harms the civilization is bad, and therefore immoral. When the leftist, liberal, baby murdering, sexual deviant supporting people learn this, the better society will be.

            If liberals are diametrically opposed to what conservatives believe, then they are all immoral.

            If you THINK that LIBERALS, in government, have done great, and CONSERVATIVES, have caused all the harm, then you are either blind, ignorant or just plain incapable of reason.

          • Frank Kahn

            More, fantasy from you, normal is defined by the majority, so it is impossible to have a minority of normal. Actually it is entirely possible to have the majority of humans acting abnormal. The difference lies in the concept of normal itself. This is where your ephemeral ideas waver away from normal.

            You constantly, incorrectly, ASSUME, that conservatives (republicans) are always wrong. They, as a group, are not wrong. Most good ideas, pertaining to the economy, are what are classified as conservative. What happens with POLITICIANS, of all sides of the issue, is that they pander to their owns self interests, and not to the true ideologies of their base.

            Leftist liberals are the worst in this respect. No matter how often history shows their policies to have failed, they continue to push their destructive agenda on the people.

            Morality is not something that is legislated, or based on personal emotion, it is what is known to be good for the civilization. Anything that harms the civilization is bad, and therefore immoral. When the leftist, liberal, baby murdering, sexual deviant supporting people learn this, the better society will be.

            If liberals are diametrically opposed to what conservatives believe, then they are all immoral.

            If you THINK that LIBERALS, in government, have done great, and CONSERVATIVES, have caused all the harm, then you are either blind, ignorant or just plain incapable of reason.

          • Deerinwater

            Frank say;”You
            constantly, incorrectly, ASSUME, that conservatives (republicans) are always
            wrong. They, as a group, are not wrong. Most good ideas, pertaining to the
            economy, are what are classified as conservative.”

            Well if they are going to claim themselves as being conservatives , the error is rather obvious Frank.

            Frank then goes on to say; “If liberals are diametrically opposed to what conservatives believe, then they are all immoral.”

            I am a humble practicing conservative Frank, I don’t know what you are. You come across like a very small god or devil or just a shallow man with too few “boxes” to put everything in neatly. But whatever the case, everyone that disagrees with you is not a Liberal.

          • Frank Kahn

            No, you are not a liberal, you only act like one in your posts. I never said that everyone that disagrees with what I say is a liberal. I gave a couple examples of what liberals believe. Those items are immoral.

            Allowing women (mostly black) to have unprotected sex, and get pregnant, because the liberals say abortion will solve the problem of their immoral act is reprehensibly immoral.

            Pushing socialist policies, which pay women to act immorally, and calling it fighting poverty is immoral. If it pays better to have babies, without a father present, than it does to be a working family, that is destructive.

            Pushing race, over character, is immoral. To give preference to any group, based on the color of their skin, is racist, and immoral.

            Pushing acceptance of abnormal sexual behavior is destructive to the traditional family. A strong family unit is healthy for society. Destroying families is therefore immoral.

            Since leftist liberals, not only support these things, but push them to the extreme, they are immoral.

            If members of the GOP support and/or push these things, then they are not conservatives, and are immoral.

            This is not a god complex, it is rational thought based on observed historical information. The true “god” complex is the liberals attempt to change the meaning of the words traditional and moral.

          • Deerinwater

            These are not matters of Government Frank. The left don’t support such things Frank ~ but they like myself believe that these issues are outside the realm of government and where the church might pick up the slack,

          • Frank Kahn

            If they are not matters of government, then why do they make laws to support them? And liberals support all the items I listed.

          • Deerinwater

            The laws are to support the “freedom” Frank.

            A Law is much like a Hammer, ~ most people use a hammer to drive and pull nails ~ but it can be misused to do other things.

          • Frank Kahn

            Making laws is not a support of freedom if it is immoral.

          • Deerinwater

            Well the laws defend and support personal freedoms Frank.

            Morality is not something that can be legislated, while I know that you would want to attempt too if you could. ~ I think most of us would if it were possible.

            Laws that would focus on morality would end up bringing forward a mixed bag of conflict. ~ in much the same way the Home Land Security Act has created us a monster to deal with as it also restricts and limits personal freedoms.

          • Frank Kahn

            Morality has already been legislated, by forcing everyone to cow tow to queers.

          • Deerinwater

            Delicate subject for sure Frank. ~ I would have like to seen “different language” myself.

            But there again, ~ more matters of church than government.

            The Federal government has taken the stance, ~ rights should not be limited or restricted due to sexual orientation.

            You claim that it’s a moral issue ~ so it is a matter for the church if you believe that to be so.

          • Bob666

            Yo Deer,
            I have noticed that Frank has a real issue with “Queers” as he mentions them a lot and I Have to assume the same admiration of Blacks, Hispanics, women and Asians as well.

            Would I be correct is saying that Frank is big believer in diversity?

          • Deerinwater

            No, ~ I don’t think so Bob. ~ Frank is not peachy keen on diversity at all !

            http://youtu.be/hUAie-X3u8I

            and it gets more Frank like by the minute!

            http://youtu.be/FCgCQMeUjDQ

          • Deerinwater

            I’m not sure what has happen to the thread ~ my post was placed but not where I expected it to post.

            As far as Frank ~ He reminds me of Agent Smith in The Matrix Reloaded.

            Smith has gone rogue and is now off the Matrix. This taste of freedom is new with a sense of “Self and Purpose” , and like a corrupt program goes about reproducing himself again and again and again to address his purpose. ~ In this case, to assimilate and make Anderson and everyone else like himself.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUAie-X3u8I&feature=share&list=TLrhZLczRsT14

            and the fight begins

            http://youtu.be/FCgCQMeUjDQ

          • Deerinwater

            Frank I don’t agree with much of what you say, ~ I don’t agree with your notions of what it takes to be a Conservative or a Liberal. I don’t agree with you understanding of Government and it’s responsibilities. I don’t agree with your understanding of “Law” . I don’t agree with your understanding of Christian values. I don’t agree with this ancient premise that Homosexual sexual orientation is chosen by them. ~ I don’t believe that homosexuals are immoral but victims of random selection that the All Mighty seen fit to set in motion at the beginning of time. Their guilt is being born. ~ If they could choice to be different from how they were born to be ~ they would and void all this being a target of hate and rejection by a world society that has treated them at an social outcast. ~ Who wants to live a life as an outcast Frank if it could be avoided by a personal decision. ` Sexual orientation is not a decision. Did you every ponder over the decision who to take to the Prom? ~ Bill or Jim? ~ hell no you didn’t ~ and neither did I. ~ that’s because the thought would make us ill! ~~ That is sexual origination at work Frank. Gays have these same feeling ~ but in reverse. ~ It’s a terrible heavy curse to carry ~ but they do, ~ they have no choice while you would say that they do. ~ as if Jim or Bill could a choice you could make to take to the prom.

            You and i would ask, ~demand, that they stop being how they were born ~ and many do try ~ they try so hard. and many do manage to sneak by our radar. ~ Many just give up and kill themselves ~ and some ~ have said to hell with this. ~ God has created us all, ~ and i didn’t ask to be this way, ~ I did not ask to be here ~ But I am! Deal with it. i want the same rights every other citizen enjoy, not one less, not one more.

            I would not wish to silence your voice Frank, you have the right to state your feelings, thoughts and ideas on these matters and I will defend your right to do so with all my being~ But my defense of your rights is not condoning or supporting your beliefs.

            The same applies to Homosexuality and homosexuals , transsexual, transgender ~ I will defend their rights as long as these rights are common rights and can be shared by all people, ~ They should not receive special rights, rights that other’s can not share. But I am not a proponent of Homosexuals and would discourage promoting the behavior. Assuming it is possible while remote one could make a conscience decision to be Gay or transgendered.

          • Karolyn

            Bravo Deer Bob!

          • Frank Kahn

            AND I WILL DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO BE AN IGNORANT LIBERAL.

          • Deerinwater

            Hmm? It seems that you have shifted into the Cap mode just as Bob predicted you would Frank.

            Frank, you may not be aware of this, but the Tea Party and people like yourself in the Tea Party are probably the best windfall the DNC has enjoyed in many years.

            We can discuss the issues and promote our own personal views and positions. ~ We can use each other for a sounding board to see where we differ and where we are alike but it’s not in my best interest for you to change your views, attitudes or behavior.

            The wealth of political chastising and polarizing you do with every posting is priceless and I do look forward to mining you for more as time allowed and the issues present themselves.

            Allow me to thank you personally now for all the good work that you do and I hope to visit with you again.

          • Bob666

            Yo Deer,
            It is Frank and those like him that drive mainstream republicans and conservative democrats away from GOP candidates.

            I’m sure that Obama would send him a thank-you note

          • Deerinwater

            I’m not exactly sure about what cow tow means as you use it Frank. You and everyone else is “forced if you will” to honor them the same rights that you enjoy. I think iit s safe to say ,a majority of the straight community feel the same way as you do about it ~ but most ~ are reserve in their reacting and possess better coping skill to this adversity.

            For the record, ~ I felt the same way as you do today when I was a much younger man. It was only though life’s experiences that I found it necessary to develop and improve my “coping skills” , for the world would not change to my liking, ~ I found need to adjust or be left to feed on anger, hate and resentment.

            Obviously, homosexuality is an anomaly ~ that you fear it ~ is work for you to do or not do. ~ It can’t be done for you.

            Gay’s have been getting “bad press” for centuries ~ They live in a world of constant bodily threat and uncertainty.

            It’s not contagious, ~ you can’t get it by exposure or the food you eat or fluid you drink.

            Whether or not it’s genetic and passed on in the gene ~ is still unclear while 4% to 7% of the worlds population is homosexual. ~ Apparently , always has been and always will be until we can find the source.

            Who is ” Friedrich Wilhelm Augustus von Steuben” ?

            http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/served/steuben.html

          • Frank Kahn

            As long as you continue to be a die hard liberal hack, you will never understand normal human emotion and reasoning.

            “I’m not exactly sure about what cow tow means as you use it Frank. ”

            I am sorry, accidentally put a space in it, it is COWTOW, and it means to worship.

            “You and everyone else is “forced if you will” to honor them the same rights that you enjoy. ”

            WHEN LIBERALS LEARN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A RIGHT AND A PRIVILEGE, THEN YOU CAN TALK.

            “I think iit s safe to say ,a majority of the straight community feel the same way as you do about it ~ but most ~ are reserve in their reacting and possess better coping skill to this adversity. ”

            I have no problem COPING with queers, I just don’t want the government worshiping, and forcing the rest of normal civilized people to worship queers. They have exactly the same RIGHTS as everyone else, when they stop wanting special PRIVILEGES, then they can be ignored.

            “For the record, ~ I felt the same way as you do today when I was a much younger man. It was only though life’s experiences that I found it necessary to develop and improve my “coping skills” , for the world
            would not change to my liking, ”

            I am happy that you found your inner queer. It is good that you were able to finally admit that you agree with them. That is not a personal achievement that is desirable for the majority of the world.

            “~ I found need to adjust or be left to feed on anger, hate and resentment. ”

            It saddens me to hear that you hated yourself, I am happy you are now feeling better about yourself.

            “Obviously, homosexuality is an anomaly ~ that you fear it ”

            LIBERAL BS, FEAR HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SPEAKING OUT AGAINST AN ABERRATION.

            “~ is work for you to do or not do. ~ It can’t be done for you. ”

            IT IS NOT A JOB THAT ANYONE SHOULD UNDERTAKE. ACCEPTING SEXUAL PERVERSION, IN ANY FORM, IS AGAINST GOD.

            “Gay’s have been getting “bad press” for centuries ~ ”

            BAD PRESS? THEY ARE SEXUAL DEVIANTS, WHAT IS THE BAD PRESS IN THAT?

            “They live in a world of constant bodily threat and uncertainty. ”

            AND YET, THE INSIST ON PARADING AROUND, LIKE IDIOTS, AND EXCLAIMING WHAT THEY ARE. IF THEY ARE SO TERRORIZED, MAYBE THEY SHOULD STFU AND LET US LIVE IN PEACE.

            “It’s not contagious, ~ you can’t get it by exposure or the food you eat or fluid you drink.”

            AGAIN, MORON, WE DON’T FEAR THE QUEER, WE OBJECT TO THEIR SEXUAL PERVERSION.

            “Whether or not it’s genetic and passed on in the gene ~ is still unclear while 4% to 7% of the worlds population is homosexual. ~ ”

            LETS SEE HERE, NO GENETIC TESTS, TO DATE, HAVE BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY ANY GENETIC EVIDENCE FOR QUEERS. YES THERE IS NO PROOF THAT IT IS GENETIC, BUT THERE IS NO PROOF EITHER WAY. IS THAT WHAT LIBERALS MEAN BY UNCLEAR?

            “Apparently , always has been and always will be until we can find the source. ”

            FINDING THE SOURCE IS IRRELEVANT, THEY ARE SEXUAL DEVIANTS AND MUST BE VIEWED AS SUCH.

            “Who is ” Friedrich Wilhelm Augustus von Steuben” ?”

            WHO GIVES A RATS ASS, WHO HE IS. HE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DISCUSSION ABOUT QUEERS.

          • Deerinwater

            LOL! He, ~ Friedrich Wilhelm Augustus von Steuben was the 1st known Gay in the Continental Army , he was responsible for making a fighting force of high caliber from farmers and craftsmen that could compete with the British and German military. ~ He endured the winter at Valley Forge with Washington and a his men. He produced the fighting force General Washington had to work with.

            The right man for the right job at the right time.

            Without his knowledge , skill and efforts, history would read differently today.

            So ~ now you know ~

          • Bob666

            Yo Deer,
            Frank only used the term “queer” five times in that post, but one was in CAPS.

          • Frank Kahn

            And not a single one of those accomplishments was because he was a queer.

          • Bob666

            Yo Frank,

            “And not a single one of those accomplishments was because he was a queer”.

            So what is your point????????

          • Frank Kahn

            That, the fact that he was a queer has nothing to do with anything. We do not need to know this fact, so why push it. The whole point of queer rights is to push the fact that they are queer. We don’t need to know this fact. They can, and will be treated the same, socially, as anyone else without all their brazen declarations.

          • Bob666

            Frank,
            You seem to be the only one that is consumed with his sexuality. From my observations, gay people are no different than straight people. Some want to flaunt their sexuality and many more are conservative as you would never guess they are gay.

            I have never seen any homosexual that wants special treatment-they just want the same rights that you and I have, no more-no less.

          • Frank Kahn

            As a die hard liberal, you seem to be incapable of comprehension. It was DIW that pushed the fact that he was a queer, not me.

          • Bob666

            Wow Frankie,

            “As a die hard liberal, you seem to be incapable of comprehension”

            That’s down right funny frank since I am far from being a “liberal”. I was a card carrying GOP member for over twenty years and became a libertarian during Reagan’s second term before it was fashionable or popular.

            What I am not is; a raciest or a homophobe Frank. Liberty & Justice applies to everyone Frank-not just old white guys like you and me. My comprehension is pretty dam good-yours on the other hand………….

          • Deerinwater

            Correct! Frank, ~ but in spite of his sexual orientation and the cost he had to pay for it.

          • Frank Kahn

            OH, BOO HOO, sounds just like all those worthless black race baiters. They suffer so much, and it is not their fault. They are deviants, whether it is faulty genetics or choice does not matter. They have to live with their problem. I don’t.

          • Deerinwater

            I’m not completely with you on the “race baiter” comment. ~ Let us stick to the topic at hand shall we. It seems that we have enough on our plate without clouding the water.

            Yes! You are correct, homosexuality is understood as a deviation from the normal sexual orientation and not the focus of our debate. It’s been identified and defined as a characteristic and behavior among 4 to 7 % of the population and has been witnessed and documented throughout the history of mankind.

            The focus of our debate is that “some people,” like yourself would believe that this deviation justifies denying these American citizens the same rights that themselves enjoy and just cause to be penalized for it. And, as you Frank, put it so well, ~ “it don’t matter why” ~ they are found deserving of your retribution and judgement as if you were an angel of the Lord God Almighty himself.

            Yes Frank, you are correct , they are left to live and die with their problems. ~ and you are not, while you do have your own. ~ So what is your interest in their problem since it does not concern you?

            Clearly you have some interest or we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

            That government finds it fitting to offer consideration for a handicap you would claim it “worshiping”. Since you have already statement, ~”whether it is faulty genetics or choice does not matter. They have to live with their problem. I don’t.”

            While in FACTUAL TRUTH ~ they are NOT asking for special considerate at ALL! ~ but only the same rights that you enjoy.

          • Frank Kahn

            Lets go through this point by point, and try to finally get you to understand my stand.

            “Yes! You are correct, homosexuality is understood as a deviation from the normal sexual orientation and not the focus of our debate. It’s been identified and defined as a characteristic and behavior among 4 to 7
            % of the population and has been witnessed and documented throughout the history of mankind. ”

            According to a 2002 study, it was found to be closer to 2% of the U.S. population, and some other nations were far less.

            “The focus of our debate is that “some people,” like yourself would believe that this deviation justifies denying these American citizens the same rights that themselves enjoy and just cause to be penalized for
            it. ”

            A blatant lie, I have not advocated restricting their rights. I simply refuse to accept the governments meddling in something that is none of their business. It is the stupidity of classifying things as RIGHTS, which are actually privileges, that causes the problem.

            “And, as you Frank, put it so well, ~ “it don’t matter why” ~ they are found deserving of your retribution and judgement as if you were an angel of the Lord God Almighty himself. ”

            Retribution? Look that word up and try to apply it to my position. I want them out of my face. I don’t want to hear their pathetic whiny stories about how everyone is mistreating them.

            “Yes Frank, you are correct , they are left to live and die with their problems. ~ and you are not, while you do have your own. ~ So what is your interest in their problem since it does not concern you? ”

            If they shut up and stop making it a national issue, and stop all their idiotic law suites about discrimination, it will not concern me. It is the governments decision to support and enable the queers, that has caused this problem. But, governments intervention was a result of extreme pressure from the LGBT group.

            “Clearly you have some interest or we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

            That government finds it fitting to offer consideration for a handicap you would claim it “worshiping”. ”

            Please to explain what form of “handicap” you are referring. Being queer was removed from classification as a mental disorder, so what medical condition is causing this disability?

            “Since you have already statement, ~”whether it is faulty genetics or choice does not matter. They have to live with their problem. I don’t.”

            While in FACTUAL TRUTH ~ they are NOT asking for special considerate at ALL! ~ but only the same rights that you enjoy.”

            You, totally miss the point. I don’t have to live with their problem. That means that I have freedom of association, I can choose what people I want to associate with, in personal or business relationships. When the government steps in, and gives queers SPECIAL status as a group, that is bigotry. When the government added “sexual orientation” to its list of no no’s for discrimination, it gave them SPECIAL RIGHTS, to sue me if I fire them. Would you support the government adding “middle aged white men” to the list of no no’s? How about “single mother household children”?

            Yes, morality cannot be legislated. But, it is attempted, constantly, by politicians. The problem is, that most of the legislation is done under the guise of RIGHTS or FREEDOMS, if you put these labels on something then it is no longer a moral issue. Reproductive RIGHTS? GAY rights? The RIGHT to citizenship? Women don’t have different RIGHTS, just because they got pregnant. Gays, don’t have DIFFERENT RIGHTS than normal people. Illegal aliens, don’t have the RIGHT to become citizens. They can be given PRIVILEGES, ACCOMMODATIONS, to make them feel better about themselves, but that is not an issue of RIGHTS.

          • Deerinwater

            I tend to believe that you are more “Cat” then human Frank.

            I’ve met at lot of people in my 43 years of providing “field service” to customers as I go into their homes, shops, ships, planes and factories. ~ meeting new faces 4 to 10 per. day , 5 and 6 days a week after so many years , we have to learn something about people. While my job is to correct problems ~ I can’t correct people nor should I attempt too. So we cope and contend, do what we came to do and get out.

            I’ve made it a point to stay professional, what I see and hear inside these homes, stays inside these homes. I’ts a professional “trust” , a trust that I am committed too.

            But it’s never ceased to amaze me how pet lovers personalities tend run in sink with the pets that they own, with some exceptions of course.

            Bird lovers, are a bred of their own. ~ I’ve walked into houses where there are on less then 25 exotic birds caged all over the house with some running free. ~ The noise is deafening. ~ I ask, “How do you contend with this noise”, ~ The reply , “Oh ~ they are just making all that noise because you are here.” ~ Bird droppings everywhere, ~ furniture chews up. ~ My My. ~ ~ These people tend to be reclusive ~friendly and reserved people ~ and like to mind their own business.

            Dog lovers,! ~ just anybody can be a dawg lover. ~ Ones never enough ~ we need two, ~ or three or maybe four. ~ Watch your step, ~ don’t step in that! ~ get down! ~ He’s harmless , just let him smell you and he’ll clam down in a minute. ~ He smells that last customers dawg on you! ~ can you get him off my leg? ~ Put him up or something? ~ I’d can’t put him in the yard, he’ll jump the fence. ~ and besides, the AC is out back, ~ As soon as my daughter gets out, I’ll put him in the bathroom. ~ I”m pawed on , slobbered on, humped on. ~ I can’t communicate with the homeowner without competing with the dog(s) demanding attention, friendly or unfriendly, it can be either or.

            The dog lover tends to be a outgoing friendly sort of person, tolerant and forgiving people and make up the bulk of pet owners.

            Cat people, ~ They love their cats! One or two is nice, ~ I had a girlfriend that had 47 and only two gas wells once. The Gas wells and her womanly charm was not enough incentive to stick around. ~ They crap everywhere, in you tool box, the neighbors garden and flower beds, they piss on what they wish to dominate and always do it “on the sneak.” They sneak and stalk about, little avoid their attention ~while they act indifferent and above it all.

            They don’t need you, until they do. ~ They act totally independent, while depending on every hand out that they can get. ~ They are ungrateful to other forces and see themselves as superior to everything and everyone. They are vindictive, spiteful and very territorial.

            Their coat puts off an airborne particular that plays hell with many people allergies and skin irritations. Their urine puts an airborne bacteria in the air that catches in AC evaporator pans ~ when it works as a petri dish. In the dark damp cool temperature of the evaporator pan it grows a culture that creates uncontrolled condensate water flooding ~( I’ve seen cultures as large a 3 sq. feet) not to mention the homeowners gets the pleasure of breathing tainted and infectious air and can’t understand why they feel so bad and stay in a constant foul mood all the time.

            Cat lovers, don’t think or believe they cats do any harm, ~ , Cat lovers are innocent of any and all wrong doing and just can’t understand why the rest of the world can’t be like them.

          • Frank Kahn

            Cats are a very intelligent and independent species. Where you get your idea of dependence is beyond belief.

            While I love cats, I am sorry to say that our description of them fits the leftist liberal mind set. The always THINK they are always RIGHT and can do no WRONG.

          • Deerinwater

            Them? ~ are they not people, Citizens that pay taxes ,vote and fall under the title of American citizen subject to all rights, laws and penalties as other citizens?

            Why should they enjoy any more or less rights as you?

            No one is stopping you from selecting a companion, growing rose bushed and playing post office.

          • Frank Kahn

            HAVING LIBERAL BRAIN FREEZE? READING COMPREHENSION ON THE FRITZ?

            IF YOU READ THE POSTS YOU WILL SEE THAT “THEM” IS REFERRING TO POLICIES NOT PEOPLE.

          • Bob666

            Well Now,
            Frank is using all CAPS to exude his grand wisdom, Now listen up everyone-Frank who is a master of everything is speaking!

            BTW Frank, how is your relationship with the neighbors cat????

          • Frank Kahn

            Actually, I need to clip my finger nails on my little fingers, they get in the way of touch typing the shift key. So it is easier to leave the caps on.

            BTW, cats are a very intelligent species, much smarter than dogs. I have great rapport with these animals, they are my friends.

          • Robert Messmer

            Frank said, “Allowing women (mostly black) to have unprotected sex, and get pregnant, because the liberals say abortion will solve the problem of their immoral act is reprehensibly immoral.” So just how would government NOT allow women (and btw last time I checked it still took a male for pregnancy) to have unprotected sex? Since you apparently don’t get out much white women do it also. If you have cable you can watch, “16 and Pregnant” and “Teen Mom”. Neither of these shows are black programming.

          • Frank Kahn

            Actually my statement stands on fact.

            “Frank said, “Allowing women (mostly black) to have unprotected sex, and get pregnant, because the liberals say abortion will solve the problem of their immoral act is reprehensibly immoral.” So just how would government NOT allow women ”

            Condoning it is what is bad, stopping it is impossible. The government, also, can’t stop murder, but it is still illegal.

            “(and btw last time I checked it still took a male for pregnancy) to have unprotected sex? ”

            And your point is?

            “Since you apparently don’t get out much ”

            This is not a matter of getting out much, I get out just as much as most normal people.

            “white women do it also. If you have cable you can watch, “16 and Pregnant” and “Teen Mom”. Neither of these shows are black programming.”

            And those are TV shows, that has nothing to do with factual reality.

            Black women are getting abortions at a rate of almost 5 to 1 as white women. That explains my using the term (mostly black).

          • Robert Messmer

            OK so you meant to say “Condoning” instead of “Allowing” no problem. But then doesn’t the premise of “abortion will solve…” and “…pays better to have babies..”have an internal conflict? The point was you were placing all the “blame” on women. You could have complained about condoning men going around impregnating women. But being a male you just naturally placed the blame on the female. Yes the tv shows while not real life are based on reality unless of course those are only false prenancies and “rented” kids for the moms. White women are more likely to be have access to the so-called “Morning After Pill”. The problem is you really can’t control people’s morals with laws.

          • Frank Kahn

            Condone means to allow or permit something. If you condone murder, you allow it to be done.

            There is no problem with the two ideas, since they are different policies of government. 1 is to allow the murder of unwanted babies, 2 is welfare that pays to raise the ones that were not killed.

            I did not place blame on women, I simply pointed out that the government allows, permits, condones, encourages and supports this type of behavior.

            If men were forced to accept responsibility for their babies, some of this problem would go away.

            TV shows almost always use actors for them, you don’t actually thing the Partridge family was an actual family do you?

            Don’t hand me the liberal crap of white privilege. It is a morals problem, not an abortion problem.

          • Robert Messmer

            And if as you say, it is a morals problem it is out of the governments control.

          • Karolyn

            Where is the government or anybody “condoning” unprotected sex??????

          • Frank Kahn

            Weeellllllll, we first need to attend to the idea of “PROTECTED SEX” which is the opposite of “unprotected sex”. There are two different reasons for protection: 1. to prevent pregnancy 2. To prevent VD, or as it has morphed into STD. Because my statement was concerning abortions, I will stick to number 1.

            There are actually some religions that condemn the use of anything that would prevent a woman from conception. But, aside from that, condoning something is the act of accepting and or making allowances for the act. The opposite of condone is condemn. So, if you make a statement and/or policy that makes allowances for the mitigation of responsibilities associated with an act, you are condoning it. Allowing people to avoid the responsibility of the consequences of unprotected sex, is an implicit acceptance (condoning) of the act. The government, not only allows for them to avoid responsibility, they force everyone to accept it and actually pay for the procedure to alleviate the problem. The Planned Parenthood organization is a major supporter of abortion, so by extension, they are supporters (condone) of unprotected sexual behavior. To make the point even more clear, that they support unprotected sex, they are actually claiming that it is somehow a RIGHT. To protect a WOMAN’S RIGHT TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, as if GOD gave women the RIGHT to kill unwanted babies, before they were born. So, they are saying, don’t worry about getting pregnant, you have the GOD given RIGHT to abort the pregnancy. I will check my Bible again, but I don’t remember seeing this in the scriptures.

            So, maybe some leftist, liberals might claim that my position that advocating abortions is the same as condoning unprotected sex, is some kind of right wing extremist fallacy, but it seems like logic to me. Freedom comes with responsibilities, if you eliminate the responsibilities, then freedom is unworthy. If you want someone to exercise good judgement, they must know that they will have to accept the responsibilities of their actions.

    • justus brother

      Questions Mark Which party ended slavery? Which party started the KKK? Do yourself a favor and look up the answers.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        The Republicans. But they did so only as a war measure and as a way of securing votes for the Politicians’ own benefit. As the result of their using the Black man as a pawn then, and later, we still have unnecessary racial strife in this country. It will only stop when people finally wake up to the fact that Big Government only causes more turmoil.
        Read this book to get a clearer picture of how the Blacks were used as pawns by the Republicans:
        http://www.amazon.com/The-Real-Lincoln-Abraham-Unnecessary/dp/0761526463/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377976856&sr=8-1&keywords=the+real+lincoln
        I haven’t read this one yet, but it might also shed more light:
        http://www.amazon.com/Forced-into-Glory-Abraham-Lincolns/dp/0874850851/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377977651&sr=8-1&keywords=lerone+bennett

        • Robert Messmer

          “way of securing votes for the Politicians’ own benefit ” and when/where has any politician ever done any different?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You should read this article, Robert, and become enlightened:
            http://mises.org/journals/jls/16_2/16_2_6.pdf
            “Dunning, Rhodes, Bowers, and Randall were Northerners
            who documented in great detail how the Republican Party—which is to say the federal government—ignored presidential vetoes and federal court rulings, disenfranchised white southerners while giving the vote to ex-slaves (who were instructed to vote Republican), formed new state puppet governments run by Republican Party hacks from the North, and used this power to plunder Southern taxpayers for more than a decade after the war”.

          • Robert Messmer

            Thanks for the link. Since I have spent quite a few years in the South, I already knew what the DamnYankees had done down here. I may have missed it in scanning through the article but did they point out when/where any politician did anything not designed to gather him votes for his own benefit?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            There are some good men in Congress who actually do what is best for their country rather than what’s best to get re-elected. Like Ron Paul, for instance.

          • Robert Messmer

            OK Ron Paul, Rand and a few others so we don’t have 536 elected crooks in DC, only 531. We are still way out numbered.

      • Harold Olsen

        The left has been rewriting history so that it is now the Democrats who supported Civil Rights legislation and Republicans who opposed it, when, in fact, it was the other way around. But they’ll get around to rewriting history so it was the Democrats who freed the slaves and the Republicans who started the KKK? They are like the Holocaust deniers who claim the Holocaust never happened.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Funny, mark, but the party of the “compassionate” seems to be only so with other peoples’ money. And my choices have been limited over the years much more by Liberal Progressives than by Neoconservative Progressives, neither of which is desirable.
      You’re just a typical Liberal Progressive manipulator, mark. Your agenda is not defensible so you must resort to calling people “racist” or “heartless” or “haters” or some other such epithets in an effort to ply people with emotion rather than with logic.

    • Robert Messmer

      “hate women” as in interfering in the Terri Schiavo case. So was President Bush a Democrat when he kept her alive? You sprout a lot about “hate” but you have no specifics of a common, organized hatred. Are there Republicans who are bigoted? Sure there are–just like there are Democrats and Independents. Are there White Haters–again yes there are and again just as there are Black Haters.

      • Karolyn

        Am I mistaken or was it not Jeb Bush, at that time governor of FL, who INTERFERED in a family matter?

        • Bob666

          Yes Karolyn,

          it was Jeb Bush who was governor at the time and he was one of the driving forces who stuck his nose in the family business of the Schiavo family.

          That was a classic example of government imposing itself against the personal choice of the individual.

        • Robert Messmer

          Yes Karolyn Jeb was our governor at the time and both him and older brother George butted in. Was not saying it was a good thing but was only pointing out to mark that it was Republicans trying to keep the woman alive since he was saying that they “hated” women.

    • Harold Olsen

      Hate is it? Why? Because we want immigrants to come legally, not illegally. We want people, like blacks who think they are owed something, to take responsibility for their actions. Muslims are trying to destroy our country. Unions help no one but themselves. I know. I’m an SEIU member and they do nothing to help me. Every time our contract is renewed we lose benefits. Intolerance? Disagree with anyone on the left and we’re accused of racism or hate speech. They call for people’s deaths who don’t agree with them. What’s to like about Obama? He incites racial tensions on a daily basis. And speaking of hate. In order to be a good liberal/progressive, on of the main criteria is to hate white people, especially if you yourself are white. And conservatives do not preach hate, not unless encouraging morality is hate. The left promotes and embraces immorality and perverted lifestyles and tries to force it on the rest of us. In what way do we hate women? Because we oppose abortion? Abortion is murder. When I returned from Vietnam, I was was called a baby killer by the same people who advocate killing babies through abortion. Who are the real baby killers?

  • Mike S.

    Ron Paul had quite a following of the younger generation, because he had a message that rang true to them; something the Republican leadership and majority didn’t want to acknowledge. Now they are paying the price for not being true to their Republican ideals. Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge followed their Republican principles with good results, both economically and politically. Sadly, our current Republican leadership seems to want to say “we can give you what you want, just like the Democrats” and that is their downfall. Since the only presidential choices in Oklahoma last fall were Obumer and Rumney, I left both of them blank and only voted for the state and local choices.
    I think Rush is wrong. We don’t need glitz and glamor to win, we need a real messenger with a real message of individual liberty, just like Ron Paul had and still has.
    That is what will win an election!

  • Deerinwater

    I didn’t get passed the 1st Question , “How is it that conservatives dominate talk radio, nonfiction book sales and, in large measure, network news (largely because of the Fox News juggernaut) – yet can’t mount a successful National political campaign to place even a nominal conservative in the White House?

    Answer, ~ no creativity, no originality exist in Conservative thought or behavior. Even their Dreams are “paint by number”, ~ Rare does it draw inspiration from the “ether” and found to be “overly” amusing or entertaining.

    ~ Even as great as the novelist Ayn Rand was, ~ she was not great for her originality but for being so primitively and profoundly self centered and egoistical while romancing the readers sympathy with Shakespearean wordsmith skills. Most readers could marvel and associate with her as she validate her thoughts and believe “she’s right” with other were left to admire her salesmanship and be thankful there was but one Ayn Rand.

    Maybe 20% of humans harbor these views of “SELF” . ~ notions of “self” are developed, created, fabricated. ~ When we fist find our thumb in the womb, ~ we realize that it is “our thumb” and from that point forward our world grows to include other things. Mother is next to assimilate, my mother, ~ not “me’ but “mine”. ~ Boundaries are developed. An image of “self” is slowly produced as we experience the world around us and establish our boundaries and how things outside our boundaries relate to self.

    20% of us do not share the same understanding of “boundaries and self” as the remaining 80%.

    Why this is ~ ??? Who knows for certain ~ it’s just an observation, while it it is a core study and many of these answers are available to those that wish to know and understand.

    • Deerinwater

      And the GOP could get a “nominal” conservative elected, ~ but he or she can’t be seen as “flawed” greater than the oppositions candidate.

      Mittens ~ was a “goody-goody, two face vulture ~ and easy to see through~ the stench alone was hard contend with. ~ Ron Raul was the man and the GOP chastised him.

      McCain’s, ~ horrible VP choice, ~ and stumped with promises to “Clean up the Hill” while he couldn’t even run his own election Campaign without interference from the GOP, ( Norquist, Karl Rove and countless others)

      How is such a person going to clean up the hill? ~ A Promise that clearly could not be kept. Cheating 5 didn’t help him none, The way he went about “trading Up” with his women, hurt him, ~ being a hawk, hurt him.

      I liked McCain, ~ but his VP choice turned me sour and I could not overlook all his other flaws after long consideration.

      • ChiefBoring

        Please explain your problems with Sarah Palin. She was a better candidate than McCain. And no matter Ron Paul’s bona fides, he couldn’t have gotten over ten percent of the vote. His son might do better, but that remains to be seen. And whatever Fox’s shortcomings may be, they are far better than the Lame Stream Media.

        • Deerinwater

          McCain’s age,

          Lacking in Knowledge of current world affairs, world history, business, big league politics, inability to articulate above an 8 grade level. Willing to dismiss complex problems without thoughtful consideration or seek council. ~ Unwillingness to answer “fitting”question that exposed her weakness.

          Not a team player, ~ not a leader, ~ Good Leaders must have experience at following ~ she’s never followed a day in her life.

          Failure to fulfill her obligation as governor to the people of Alaska,

          It’s not surprising that she and Glenn Beck “compliment ” each other so , ~while both finding themselves in backwater today. ~ Even the viper handler Rupert couldn’t deal with them very long.

          If the weight, power and might of the GOP had got behind Ron Paul and Ron Raul had toned down this ” hate for the Fed” and not had everyone that held down a government job or position in fear of being unemployed. He would have made a great showing last election. ~

          I believe that ! i do. ~ There were just too many of us ready for what he was offering.

          Being blunt, ~ is something that can and more than likely will be used against you in high stakes politics but it works well on the local level. `

          Neither Ron Paul or Sarah Palin seemed to be able to span this divide. Sarah because she didn’t know how and Ron Paul simply refused to.

          Even Jesus on occasion was known to pander to his audience to appeal to them, only to lead them “later” as his audience accepted him.

          It unwise to tell people that you plan to burn down their Barn before you tell people that you are going to build them a new one.

          • ChiefBoring

            McCain is old enough to retire.
            Palin’s knowledge has improved over time. I learned in college that the press aims to communicate at the eighth grade level, where most people’s comprehension lies. Perhaps that’s why Palin conects well with the public.
            I believe her leadership skills are better than you, but we can disagree on that point.
            She resigned because her enemies continued to attack her, and the defense was being paid by the State. She served well as Governor, cleaning up some corruption.
            I hold no real care for nor knowledge of Glenn Beck, except superficially. She’s still in the public eye, while Beck is on the web.
            Ron Paul was not electible; beyond that, I’ll leave him alone, as he’s prettty much retired from the public stage.
            Jesus can speak for himself, without my help. Is the Barn Burner comment referring to Paul?
            Thank you for a thoughtful response to my question. I don’t necessarily agree with your conclusions, but I can respect that you have considered your positions.

          • Deerinwater

            Your most kindly welcome and i too thank you for your thoughtful reply. ~ and Yes , I was referring to Ron Paul with my Barn burning comment. ~ A good salesman sales the benefits and features. What Paul was attempting to do was a hard sale and would change many peoples lives. ~ many would be “displaces” in such a transition. People need to be sold the benefits of transition and not just the need of it assuming the benefits might be known and understood.

            Then too, we have seen the Fed downsized before while only to see our state and local governments rush in to fill the void. ~ End results? ~ Trading one tax master for three. final product? less for more.

            but back to Ron Paul ideas.

            Example; ~ How would R Paul’s approach to foreign affairs affect the traditional role of the military?

            No branch or agency wants to think of their budget being cut. ~ that would mean less people to serve over, less power , layoffs, stand downs , less relevance. And our military is required to stay in a state of readiness that exceeded by none.

            And yes, I agree, ~ Ms, Palin is a much wiser person today about a lot of thinks. ~ She is far more relevant than say Glenn Beck or many other’s. ~ while still not the caliber for a 1st chair slot. ~ That’s some mighty big shoes to wear about and to not be well prepared. she need at the very least 4 years on the Hill serving constituents and being exposed to the “climate” she must work and produce in.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Deer says — “How would R Paul’s approach to foreign affairs affect the traditional role of the military?”.
            He would pare defense spending down to a level that was reasonable for the actual defense of our country as opposed to the current usage of galavanting all over the globe butting into other countries’ business.

            Deer says — “No branch or agency wants to think of their budget being cut”.
            The average American taxpayer doesn’t want to think of their budget being cut Forcefully to pay for unnecessary services. So who should win? I say the latter.

            Deer says — “And our military is required to stay in a state of readiness that exceeded by none”.
            We have 4 times the military spending of China the next biggest spender. Just how much is enough? If the citizens’ guns aren’t confiscated by the gun grabbers, twice the military spending of China would still be Overkill.

          • Deerinwater

            So true David, ~ this 5 to1 spending has created “Things” that want to continue to exist. and “to the devil” with anyone thinking their not required or relevant. ~ That we sacrifice in other areas to afford this spending such special interest see as “irrelevant”. America has became a “Waring Nation” in the process. When America sneezes, the world catches a cold.

            So ~~ who won the day? I would maintain that “Status Quo” has won. 44 has found it very difficult to break away from “Status Quo” as the office has limited authority and limited time, and not only that , has found out how to employ “Status Quo” sometimes to an advantage.

            Obama’s tenure will end soon and it will be left for another ambitious person with ahead full ideas to take control of a massive ship with slow and lazy helm control. The more speed ,the quicker the helm response. ~ Found Dead in the water, 44 had little more but bow thrusters and paddles to pilot our ship of state his first 3 1/2 years.

            I sincerely hope the next changing of the guard boards our ship of state in deep blue water and making way at 25 knots with much more responsive helm control.

          • ChiefBoring

            Perhaps she should run for the Senate from Alaska, and build her own national base. It seems to have worked for the current resident. She is head and shoulders above him in brains and ideas.
            Ron paul was in a hurry because of his beliefs and his age. Being 75, I can relate to that sense of ungency.
            As to the military, I retired in 1980 from the Navy, as a Chief Petty Officer. As a Motion Picture Cameraman and Director, I was perhaps more knowledgeable than some about military history, at least superficially. We always downsize between wars and then have to rush to build up for the next one.
            We need to settle on a reasonable size professional cadre, as a base for training in case of need. I agree we tend to put our nose in where not required. As a case in point, we are currently contemplating action in Syria only becasue our resident idiot opened his mouth without engaging his brain about redlines. He has syncophants instead of advisors with military sense, and no respect for the Constitution.
            We all need to pay more attention to the people we elect, and then see that they follow our wishes. And we should demand a return to smaller federal government, and adherance to the stats’ role under the Constitution.
            Well, its’ almost time for the Georgia/Clemson game, so I’ll say goodnight.

          • Deerinwater

            Well, Palin has time on her side, ~ we’ve not heard the last of her. enjoy the game.

          • ChiefBoring

            Thanks. So far so good. Georgia leads 21-14 in the second quarter…Rats! Georgia lost 35-38. Oh well.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sarah Palin, although I think she is a genuinely good person, will just continue erecting the scaffolding for our eventual subjugation. Read this to understand better what I’m saying:
            http://mises.org/journals/lf/1975/1975_07.pdf

          • ChiefBoring

            Dave, when your link was written, 1975, Sarah Palin was a babe in arms. India now has a reputation as a democracy, though I’m sure we might not like living in it. The only thought I ever had about Portugal was to wonder whyi t wasn’t part of Spain. As to your remarks to Deer, below, i suppose he will respond.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            There is no time limit on human behavior, Chief. The point I was making is that it doesn’t matter who builds the Government larger. Once the scaffolding of Big Government is in place, as the article illustrates, anybody can step in and use it to suppress the peoples’ Freedom.

          • ChiefBoring

            Or anyone elected can step in and start to reverse the process. I realize the difficulty involved in such action, but we must start somewhere.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            India is Socialist and Communistic, so is that what you mean by Democracy?

          • ChiefBoring

            I said they have a reputation as a democracy, though I’m sure we might not like living in it. My knowledge of India is severely limited because I don’t really care, as they don’t seem to be attacking us at every turn. Have a nice day.

          • Bob666

            Yo Nads,

            This is an interesting comment that you have made:

            “India is Socialist and Communistic”,

            Care to explain-I’m all ears and eyes.

          • Deerinwater

            I found this to be a very interesting interview about the McCain/Palin campaign. ~ A view from the inside.

            http://youtu.be/EebeuqbppD0

          • ChiefBoring

            With advisors like Wallace, no wonder McCain lost. What most struck me about the interview was Wallace’s statement on the one hand that Palin was the most charismatic politician she had ever met, and then saying she was not exceptionable…Odd. She also did not vote for her. She did say Palin energised the McCain campaign, which was very true. Wallace is no friend to Palin. I realize my view of Palin is different from yours. That’s fair. Not everyone sees people the same way.

          • Deerinwater

            Well? ~ Having been involved with past campaigns, Wallace is a professional with an opinion with the benefit of hindsight.

            As a professional, “Do no Harm” dominates the moments. ~

            I thought the interview forthright, ~ and I too acknowledge the energy Palin brought to McCain’s somewhat lack-lust campaign, though I never fully understand why.

            Sorry, my friend ~ I just couldn’t see it. ~ She was an attractive up-comer with lots of “curb -appeal” but the voice that could peel 40 year old paint and a message that was not unifying or uplifting but combative, argumentative and polarizing. She was not “stately” but made the deliberate decision to come across as a “Pit-bull in Lipstick”. A truly powerful woman has no need for “Balls” , but found comfortable and well equipped to do what needs to be done without them.

            Both woman and men alike that are accustom to wielding power with confidence, find no needs for such over-the -top posturing.

            While I will agree that not everyone shared such a view and that Palin was just what the doctor ordered and what they needed. Somewhere in the “package” they seen in her “HOPE”.

          • ChiefBoring

            That wasn’t a decision; Palin IS a pit bull in lipstick! LOL I guess we’ll just agree to disagree on her talents and “equipment”. Hope you had a good labor Day. I see the Longshoremen have separated from the AF-CIO over Obamacare.

          • Deerinwater

            Haha! well, your’re probably right ~ it wasn’t a decision for her at all but just her ~ “design” . ~ my first choice of words was “makeup”.

            As a child, I’ve seen my grandmother ring two chickens necks at once, every Saturday evening for Sunday after church dinner for years. ~ It always scared the bejesus out of me every-time she did it, to watch those headless chickens flop and fly about. with blood a flying everywhere. Maybe Palin “is” that kind of woman, ~ nothing wrong with her “equipment”, just keep it on the girly side.

            Well ~ this is news about the Longshoremen. ~ The Longshoremen are covered under the Jones Act and have a little better deal working for them than some Unions. ~ Thanks for the tip, I’ve been busy and missed it, ~ I’ll look into it.

            The Railroad Unions are not covered under the Jones Act, I don’t think. ~ but if they are ~ they will be next. ~ The Railroads have traditionally offered excellent benefits. Father was vested with the Santa Fee, Union and Pacific as well as the Teamsters ~Many years back ,there was talk about merging Railroad Retirement with Social Security, ~ Dad was livid with the idea.

            It’s been a profitable Labor Day, ~ this is my time to shine , it’s an oven out there . i’ll be glad when it’s over. ~ i’m pooped by 1 PM. ~ At 65, i’m losing hang time ~ and not embarrassed to say so.

          • Deerinwater

            I have enjoyed your “Handle ” by the way, ~ I attempted to use Chief10beers ~ but the site would not accept it from some reason

          • ChiefBoring

            I just remembered, the Comanche Chief in “The Outlaw Josie Wales” was named Ten Bears. Close!

          • ChiefBoring

            Once when I was young, about 70 years ago, my MawMaw chopped off a chicken’s head. It flopped in my direction; I headed for the front of the house lickety split!. As I jumped up onto the porch, so did the chicken, in its blind death throes! It was still delicious.

            The Longshoreman situation has something to do with labor’s desire for a single payer system. Being on Medicare and Tri Care For Life, I haven’t delved into Obamacare, except to learn they took $700,000,000 out of Medicare to help fund Obamacare. I guess now that it has passed, we are finding what is in it, as Pelosi said.

            My “handle”, by the way, is just my rank and last name. I’m an old Navy ScotsIrishman. John Boring came from Ireland in 1688, and the McCollums from Scotland in 1732. There were about a hundred Borings in the War Between the States; about 50 on each side.
            My GGF and two great uncles were in Company A, 18th Georgia Infantry, ANV. They fought in all the big ones.

            My dad was a tool and diemaker for Atlantic Steel. He was a steelworker union member all his life.

          • Deerinwater

            Well I like it ~ however you acquired it, it’s powerful, ~ Your family goes back a long ways in American history. It must be an impressive and rich story I’m sure. Lots of history. Lots of living and dying.

            Irish./German here. I can’t remember the actual dates, late 1700’s ~ 1768 or something like that. ~ dirt farmers, oxen people by the late 1800’s . They came to Texas from Illinois by ox cart and on foot, fighting Indians and burying the dead along the way. I asked grandfather one day, after coming so far, why stop and settle here (Glen Rose) ~ He said, at that time, the grass was as tall as an Oxen back.
            Later ~ I read the history of LBJ’s family, they~had come from Georgia, and they too were fooled in much the same way, ~ The grassland showed great abundance. ~ But ~ that grass had taken 50 to 75 years to grow so tall, had never been completely burnt off, never been grazed with the exception of wild critters in only 3″ to 5″ inches of top soil. The land would not support the ambitions these early settlers had for it. ~ After a few years of grazing, erosion set in and exposed the rock beneath. dadnabit! Oil and gas was the last thing on their mind at that time, so cotton was attempted . ~ LBJ grandfather, ~tried it as did mine gggf and neither were overly successful with it.

            My favorite uncle was a tool and diemaker as well. Started out with Rangeaire and later Chambers , i learned a lot of smithing from him and gf. GF was a man of woodcrafting, ~ oxen yokes, sleds , wagons and plows crafted from Bodark trees and rough smiting of iron and steel.

            So? ~ How many times you sail around the “Horn”? Several I reckon. ~ I never made it. ~ I’ve been humbled enough just in the Gulf of Mexico while sailing the Horn has been on my “Bucket List”

            I had work as deckhand/chief engineer/ cook and tiller relief for both 1st and 2nd captains on a 150 ft’er, 100 ton class for over a year before i was introduced to “Big Water”. 35′ and occasional 40 ft swells. Not waves, just swells, The Captain said that it was the shape of the bottom that creates them when the winds and currents was just right. You could feel and hear the keel quiver like a saw blade as it unloaded at the top and broke over the crest of each swell. The vibration would start mid-ship and travel from stem to stern. We had 17 hours of that pounding before the typhoon hit. Twin Donkeys cranking out a combine 1000 hp. at 1400 rpms ~ just wasn’t getting the job done. 1700 made no difference due to the pitch in our wheels, I guess they were captivating. With 80,000 gallon of potable water and 20,000 gallon of diesel in our “voids” including the forepeak and 15 tons of American Steel Well Heads lashed down on the aft deck, we was setting low in the water and the ride almost comfortable, while I feared she’d break her back at any moment. We kept the bow headlong into the seas and rode her like a bronc, holding on for dear life as the wind seem to come from all directions and the view from the wheelhouse seemed to be underwater 30% of the time. ` The MVP Sea Witch, ~ she was named well and a fine lady she was. She got me home.

            I can only imagine what sailing the Horn could ever be like. i don’t think i’m going to make it.

          • ChiefBoring

            Deer, as it happened I never made it below the Equator. Was going to make it once, coming back from Japan. I had a chance to ride a Cruiser to Australia and home, but it took too long. I had to get back to enter the U of S Ca for Cinema School, courtesy of Uncle Sam. So I had to fly on an R4Y, a four banger prop job. Took 36 hours! Crossing the date line I got there before i left, I think. It seemed like it. I did meet some Australian soldiers in the philippines, on a SEATO exercise with the Marines. A fun two weeks.
            I was aboard a lot of ships, from the USS Enterprise, CVN 65, our first nuclear carrier. SHe’s being decommisioned this year, after 50 years’ servcie. I was on her sea trials. Fun!…To SSBN Submarines, and plenty in between, But was never ship’s company.
            A lot of bad weather, but the worst was in the South Atlantic, aboard the destroyer Ware. I hung around the signal bridge, as they had the best coffee. We ran into a gale, and were not able to slow much becasue we had to be at a certain position at a certain time, on a classified mission. It got so bad the Gunnery Officer was out hanging onto a 5/35 gun rangefinder, trying to see the horizen and keep from being sea sick. He didn’t make it! The crew told me he always got sick with a little weather.
            The only time it happened to me was aboard a minesweeper converted to subtender when we were looking for some atomic weapons the AF had lost off the coast of Spain in 1966. Three landed on the beach, but one took us 43 days to find. I had been up on the mainmast, making movies of the weather which came up one afternoon. Then had greasy pork chops for supper. It got worse that night, and I upchucked my dinner and spent the night looking for my own horizen, then slept in the forecastle on a plle of rope, where it was cooler.
            Finding my history was helped most by a distant cousin in Mayland, with access to Census and other records. The National Park Service has a web site with many personnel records. I have my folks’ service records from the National Archives.
            Strangely enough, I found one of my McCollums was at the first battle of Bexar, but not much after then. The 18th Georgia was assigned to the Texas Brigade from late 1861 until after Sharpsburg(Antietam). Their CO, Col. later Gen. Wofford, was in command of the Texas troops at that fight, the most costly one day battle of the war. Joe Allport, in East Texas, is a good source of WTBS history of Texas.
            Well, enough sea stories from an old Sailor. Fair winds and following seas, Deer.

          • justus brother

            I take it you voted for Obunghole. He is STILL showing those same qualities as your accusing Palin of having.

          • Deerinwater

            Well, “perception” is pretty much everything when it comes to such matters. I don’t have a bit of a problem with yours when it works so well for me my brother.

            http://youtu.be/7rP9Hc164FI

            enjoy

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Deer finally says something that makes sense (probably accidentally):
            “If the weight, power and might of the GOP had got behind Ron Paul and Ron Raul had toned down this ” hate for the Fed” and not had everyone that held down a government job or position in fear of being unemployed. He would have made a great showing last election”.

            “not had everyone that held down a government job… in fear of being unemployed”. So true.
            And that is why we can kiss Freedom goodbye. Too many parasites feeding at the trough.

          • Robert Messmer

            LOL your two paragraphs after “McCain’s age,” describe Obama to a tee. As does the third paragraph with the substitution of “President” for “governor” and “this country” for “Alaska”.

          • Deerinwater

            Well, ~ if you believe that ~ than you such not vote for him. ~

            It’s not complicated.

          • Robert Messmer

            I most certainly do believe that and no I did not vote for him in 2012. By the same token I will vote against the Democrats in 2014.

          • Deerinwater

            I can’t help but think that’s what most GOP voters have done, ~ left to vote “against” opposition while not actually for their GOP candidate. ~ Sorta sad ~ really.

    • Deerinwater

      AND ! ~ Fox popularity is due to excellent mass Marketing. ~ They are appealing too and selling what people are buying! ~ at affordable prices. ~ This has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with Political “RIGHTNESS” or “FACTS” or “TRUTH”

      The number one best selling music today is determined by the number of persons who buys music. ~ Children and Teenagers comprise the bulk of this market. ~~ What does that say about the music? That it’s popular with the youth , that is all.

      That Rupert has played the Pied Pipper and lead viewers down the “The Yellow Brick Road” with slanted political commentary that “appealed to it’s viewer” is a stroke of genius! ~ Viewers that hold and harbor strong predisposition, are easy to be lead, ~ just give the viewers what they want! Tell them what they want to hear. Validate their beliefs with 5000 watt national broadcast , 24/7 with running caption and pretty women and lots of “Sports” with premium movies at affordable prices.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Deer,

      The only “creativity” and “originality” that comes from you Liberal Progressives is — How best to remove money from other peoples’ pockets to put in your own.

      So give us a break with your nonsense.

      • Deerinwater

        Give it a rest with your foolishness David. ~ The thread topic alone suggest otherwise.

        I’ll copy and paste Bernards exerts, ” GOP’s Self-Proclamation for economic dominance; in fact , it is a misnomer to call the GOP a fiscal responsible party and or a smaller government, when in fact the contrary is true.”

        “A mathematical investigation was produced by the statisticians Pedro Santa Clara and Rossen Valkanov that exposes the superior performance of the stock markets under democrats. That this is but one example of the democrat’s superiority, as there are more.
        Their study encompasses 80 years. Study demonstrates systematically and positively surprised by democratic policies. Comparing the stewardship of the two parties. They calculated each economic indicator as an “annual average” during the democrats and republicans of their economic stewardship of their 40 years each. Turns out to be a landslide for democrats providing beneficial returns to the nation. One example; Democrat’s presided over a very respectable average annual compound return of 9.60% during their 40 years where in as republicans averaged a dismal 0.58%.”

        ~ It’s been the GOP that is getting in our pockets David and use people like yourself to defend their self serving ways.

        Reagan revamping the federal taxing structure to favor the investment earned dollar over the “earned dollar” might have been a sound decision “for the times” but protracted and continued for 30 years it has created a huge earning disparity among working Americans. ~ America is now running out of new investors ~requiring us to go over seas to find them.

        For those Americans that were in position to save and invest during the zenith of their earning years ~during 80’s and 90’s are comfortable today. ~ While today’s young Americans just starting their earning career ~ the landscape is much different, ~ for there is little saving to invest ~ Mr. Peabody’s coal-train done hauled them away. ~ Cooperate American has downsized to the bone, ~ and the lion’s share of any proceeds of labor goes to the top inner management circle and what left to stock holders, ~ An endless supply of labor has helped make this possible as supply and demand forces farther devalue labor.

        What you want David , is More ~ but what you are willing to settle for is “Status Quo” , ~ Well? ~ Status Quo is not good enough and is no compromise at all. ~ We all want more David, ~ this battle his been on going and nothing new.

        The value of the Earned dollar over the invested dollar needs to be increased. And ever if this is done, it will take 30 years for this earning disparity to be reconciled. ~ Basically one generation will be given the power to craw out of a earning hole created by legislation that was extended far beyond it usefulness to address a sluggish economy of 30 years ago.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Sorry, Deer, but you’ve mistaken me for somebody who cares what you think.

          • Deerinwater

            Than why must you be sorry?

        • Robert Messmer

          Of course FDR got us out of the Great Depression by putting us (granted it was the right thing do) into WWII. Truman kept it going for his term with the Korean War. Kennedy/LBJ put us into Vietnam and LBJ decided that wasn’t doing a good enough job so he even declared war against poverty. (As a side note now you can see why the Democrats got upset with President going to war–they figured war was only for them.) The problem is you can not tax and spend a country into prosperity.

          • Deerinwater

            The purpose for the Vietnam War has been explained to me many times and many different ways, ~ The reason was even printed in my soldiers hand book. At the time, I accepted my Hand Book version, as it seemed to serve me best. But past that point, ~ I ‘ve never really completely understood it.

            You going into your first village where the Cong had just left , ~ heads on sticks line the road, butchered women and babies, laying about covered with flies and blood where you couldn’t recognize them if they were your own flesh and blood. Some butchered and still alive but bleeding out.

            Any need for a reason to be there seems to leave me at the time.

            It didn’t make any sense.

            There is such a thing as a “Just War” ~ while who’s to decide “Just” is another matter.

            In as far as “prosperity” goes, ~ it’s never been for everyone, ~ and never will be, ~ all any one can “hope for” is the “opportunity for prosperity”.

            I hear the term “tax and spend” often, ~ it’s common, ~ as to suggest there might be a “Tax and Save” ~

            or 43’s new wrinkle , “Tax less and Spend more”

            It’s like people saying “Hot Water heater” ~ is there a cold water heater?

            I’m an Air-Condition contractor, ~ some people ask , “do you do Heat too? ” ~ Yes , I do ~

            We are a prosperous nation ~ I just don’t happen to be one that enjoys much of it.

            The Fed needs to quite giving so much money away that will never return. ~

            I see the Arab Nations are soliciting the UN to intervene in Syria and against Assad.

            I think that the Arab Nations needs to pony up the loot ~ if that’s what they want to do.

          • Robert Messmer

            First let me say Thank You for your service. While I was in service at the time, the Army sent me (Thank God) to Germany. I had friends that went. I would say the Fed needs to quit printing so much, not just quit giving it away. Saudi Arabia and other Arab states paid 36 billion of GWI costs which were calculated at 61.1 billion, but US forces were 74% of total force. I think they need to put up the men to do the job as well as the cash, after all its in their backyard and not ours.

          • Deerinwater

            Thank you but ~ no thanks necessary , It was my honor to serve, like my father. ~ And thank you for all the good support and keeping a keen eye on that East gate. ~ It was crazy times back then. ~ Anything could have happened.

            I never made Europe, ~ 25th was a tropical division.~ a fatigue jacked was considered a “coat” , worn only when we had too, like a flack jacket and pot.

            I Heard parts of Germany were very nice and the women very pretty and healthy. After 3 month in country, Phu Quon Sally started developing appeal , all 80 pounds of her.

            I sorta hate to say this, ~ but I have questions in regard to how well Muslim nations can produce a good solider in numbers large enough to matter. ~ I have confident they can produce some. ~ but 20 thousand , disciplined ,hard nose soldiers that can think as an individuals yet work as a unit ? A soldier that can live off tree bark and shoe leather and keep fighting? History offers accounts of the great warring horsemen of Persia ~ but they have not achieved much in modern times to offer much of an accounting for themselves as a culture of people. ~ or perhaps I am just not aware and showing my bias and ignorance.

            Back to wars and who starts them ~ Some people say that it is bankers that start wars ~ and there much to suggest that there is some truth to that. ~ Clearly if you know what the future holds, huge profits can be made.

            It’s really not that difficult `~ given the time and money to set the stage. ~ wars seldom happen all of a sudden. ~ That a war might occur under one administration while the seeds of war were planted under another. Is not completely unrealistic.

            ~ Traditionally , GOP is very pro military. Under 43 and Reagan, the military was greatly expanded, feeling it necessary but that’s not to say ~ Democrats are anti-military, for as you point out so well ~ several wars have been started under democrat administrations.

            Reagan actually did not have a war to contend with ~ the military buildup was primarily posturing and prepping for war. ~ and this spending made a lot of Americans some money in the process. ~ It ~ was still ” taxing and spending” as you say. ~ Reagan’s administration was responsible for a huge amount of Federal Tax code changes.

            That it was a select few Americans that made this great money ~ sadly, (sour grapes here) ~ I wasn’t one. ~but I did get to shop at the same places they did. ~ so i wasn’t completely left out of the loop.

            Lots of factors to consider in regards to war~ but money being the greatest , I would think. ~ somebody’s money, ~ Do Banks lose money ~ ever? i’m thinking of large banks of course. Banks large enough to start wars.

            Forbes Thought Of The Day

            “ Your worst enemy is always a man of your own trade. ”

            I think maybe Forbes has yet to actually see the enemy.

            In Regards to Reagan, here a quote,

            Federal income tax and payroll tax levels

            During the Reagan administration, federal receipts grew from $618 billion to $991 billion (an increase of 60%); while outlays grew from $ 746 billion to $1144 billion (an increase of 53%). According to a 1996 report of the Joint Economic Committee of the United States Congress, during Reagan’s two terms, and through 1993, the top 10% of taxpayers paid an increased share of income taxes (not including payroll taxes) to the Federal government, while the lowest 50% of taxpayers paid a reduced share of income tax revenue. Personal income tax revenues declined from 9.4% GDP in 1981 to 8.3% GDP in 1989, while payroll tax revenues increased from 6.0% GDP to 6.7% GDP during the same period.”

            That’s nice! but how this 60% increase in federal receipts? ~ guns, bullets, ships, planes, hedge funds, hostile take overs and sell offs, ~ the way Mr. Romney and Donald Trump clawed their way to the top?

            Where’s mass transit?, wheres infrastructure? where a civil project of any size bigger than Boston’s “Big Dig”?

            There were none ~ we American’s have got our Nasa and our Military to be proud of ~ and we are!!!! very proud.

            But clearly, ~ Today our nation shows where the priorities of our leadership has been for the last 30 years.

          • Robert Messmer

            Good point about the large, disciplined force but since the Saudi’s etc would only be fighting other Muslims would it actually be necessary? Sort of like the joke about the French that the only war they ever won was the French Revolution and that doesn’t count since they were only fighting themselves.

    • Robert Messmer

      Yes that is the real question why did 80% fail to learn the difference between this is mine, that is not mine I have to leave it alone?

      • Deerinwater

        Right! you get the picture. ~ or that 20% who want to believe they have no boundaries and everything in reach with no fence around it, belongs to them. ~ If it not under lock and key with someones name on it ~ it automatically belongs to them.

  • Progressive Republican

    America’s favorite drug-addled pedophile gets it wrong again. It’s not that conservative credibility is absent in just pop culture, it just plain absent. The amount of lies promulgated by FRWNJ disinformation sites like this and others only further damages an already unbelievable brand. When conservatives cease cherry-picking the few (portions of) facts they DO use, the better off we’ll ALL be. Then they can become a useful counterbalance to the left instead of the joke they currently are.

  • Don in Ohio

    I don’t know if Matt Bevin is better than McConnell but I’m disappointed that McConnell is running some very negative nasty ads against Bevin. I expected McConnell be better than that.
    I think the Republican “establishment” better figure out a way to work with the TEA party people or they aren’t going to win many elections. Which means the Dems will win and that will be a disaster.

    • Deerinwater

      Mitch can be a real Stinker.

  • Harold Olsen

    The reason conservatives can’t mount a successful political campaign is the Republican party refuses to support true conservatives. When true conservatives run, the party does anything and everything to eliminate them. They want only phony conservatives to run, most of which are, at best, left-leaning moderates. They decide who their candidates will be, not the voters, and there are enough party sheep who will support whomever the party says to support. The idea of voting for the lesser of two evils has lost its attraction, since it results in evil wining. In the last two presidential elections, the worst of the two evils won.

    • Harold Olsen

      I forgot one thing. The Republican party used to be the party of ideas. These days, they are clueless to the point where they don’t give a damn what the people want. They only care about what they want. Then they wonder why they are losing support.

  • Kinetic1

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    If “Duck Dynasty” and Ted Nugent are the first examples
    that come to mind when thinking of conservatives in popular media,
    then you’ve answered your own question. “Red Neck”
    activities like belly busting eating and longest beard contests are
    popping up at ball parks and high schools as part of their “DD”
    celebrations. Not horrible things to do, but eating till you are
    about to bust is nothing to encourage either.

    I hate to say it, but I often question the soundness of our
    nation’s concept. The cultural divide between Texas and California,
    Louisiana and Boston, etc. is so vast, how can we expect people from
    one to make wise cultural decisions for the other? For that matter,
    how can expect representatives from one to make wise political
    choices for the other? It would be like allowing Brittan to make
    major governmental decisions for Italy.

    But in media, that’s how it works. Pop culture is based on sales and
    ratings. Shows like “Duck Dynasty” and “Here Comes Honey Boo Boo” are big
    winners with the 18 to 49 year old cable viewers, and I can’t for the
    life of me understand why. Do they really relate to over wieght people who believe camo is a good choice for a wedding?

    On the other hand, some of the best, most
    intelligently written shows ended after just one season. “Dead like
    me” was often brilliant, but it’s long gone while “2 ½ Men”
    continued on (and on and on.) “Pushing Daisies” (odd and
    innovative,) “My so called life” (spot on in reflecting teen
    angst) and the Tonight Show with Conan O’Brian (hip and creative)
    were turned off by most viewers in favor “Law and Order”
    (another? Really?), “Scandal” and Jay Leno.