Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty
 

Rumsfeld: Bush Administration Did Not Intentionally Lie About Iraq WMDs

February 11, 2011 by  

Rumsfeld: Bush administration did not intentionally lie about Iraq WMDsFormer Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has defended the George W. Bush administration for its handling of the Iraq war, but has criticized the leadership staff for not adequately garnering enough public support for the Guantanamo Bay detention center.

The former Pentagon chief is in the midst of a media tour to promote his memoir Known and Unknown, which was released on Feb. 8. During a recent interview with FOX News, Rumsfeld — who resigned from his Defense post in 2006 — said that members of the Bush administration did not intentionally deceive the public when they reported that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction, which served as a catalyst for America's invasion of the Middle Eastern nation.

Referring to former Secretary of State Colin Powell's infamous address to the United Nations in 2003, in which he cited intelligence about Iraq's weapons program, Rumsfeld told the news provider that Powell is an "honorable man" who "believed every word he gave in that speech."

Rumsfeld added that Bush's team could have done a better job improving the image of Guantanamo Bay, a prison for suspected terrorists. He said that even though the facility is "one of the finest prison systems in the world," the former administration was incapable of attracting public support for the project, which is now in jeopardy due to President Barack Obama's pledge to shut down Guantanamo.

According to media reports, Rumsfeld also attacks Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) in his book, calling the former Presidential candidate "a man with a hair-trigger temper and a propensity to fashion and shift his positions to appeal to the media." 

Special To Personal Liberty

You Sound Off! is written by our readers and appears the last Wednesday of each month. If you would like to submit an article or letter to the editor for consideration for You Sound Off!, send it to yousoundoff@personalliberty.com by the Friday before the last Wednesday of the month. To be considered, a submission should be 750 words or less and must include the writer's name, address and a telephone number. Only the writer's name will be published. Anonymous submissions will not be considered.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “Rumsfeld: Bush Administration Did Not Intentionally Lie About Iraq WMDs”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • s c

    Rumsfeld was extremely polite in describing McCain.
    Hopefully, McCain will never be president. That having been said, the issue that our media harpies refuse to mention is the idea that hiding WMDs isn’t that difficult.
    Beyond that, because the American media has prostituted itself for so long, many Americans have grown up without having to consider the fact that what they see has been created for them, and RARELY has anything to do with the truth.
    Here’s yet one more chance for those who can discern to appreciate the FACT that a certain leader in Iraq didn’t hesitate to kill Iraqi Kurds with WMDs. Some people, it seems, want the rest of us to believe that “some” can re-write history and IGNORE those dead Kurds. After all, it’s so covenient, and it lets “certain” people point fingers without having to defend an utterly indefensible position.
    Between you and your media whore bunkies, it’s quite likely that you’ll never have any use for the truth. Sobeit. You’ve chosen sides. Live with it, slimers.

    • Bill Thomas

      Funny, I do remember a picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam when he was the enemy of our enemy. The fact is Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney are nothing more than a bunch of “War Pigs” that had an agenda of going into Iraq come hell or highwater and hopefully there is a place such as hell that awaits them all.

      • EddieW

        You hit the nail on the head!!! I believe they should be made to poay for the crime of ordering torture against their fellow human beings…they are not above the law!! I ask for Justice!!!

        • Bruce D.

          You are talking about two or three people that were water boiling was used on. They were responsibly for killing over 3,000 Americans in a single day. The technique used on them may have saved thousands of lives. It tells a lot about you Eddie that you would call them “fellow human beings”. I would not call them that. I would classify them as cold blooded murderers. I do not like the idea of torture myself because I would not want it done to myself. Also I would not want that power in the hand of bureaucrats in general use. There is no way anyone could say it was not justified. If torture is to be used it is a call only a president should make and Bush make the right chose in this case.

          • Dan az

            Brucey
            The term is called water boarding, our own troops use it on them selves to see the effects. If your man enough try it see how terrible it is compared to ripping your finger nails out or losing parts of your body that some use on us.The list of tortures on our service men are far more disgusting.So calling it torture is not the word I would use for just getting your face wet.

        • Lastmanstanding

          Eddiew and BT. why don’t you guys just leave the USA and move to f…..g France, Egypt or some other foreign land where life is so great! You progs will not change this country. We are on to your crap. Take the man without the birth certificate with you…

      • http://yahoo.com chas

        …Cleaning up the MESS left by Bill”The Raper” challenges ANYONE enough to perform “services” that put their SOUL in jeopardy!!…THIS is a PERFECT example of what beholds ANYONE following a Blue-shirted Liberal NAZI prez like “peanut-Head” Carter, Bill “The Raper” and the POOR SOUL unlucky enough to dethrone Komrad ZERO-Bama!!…The BSLN in the Lamestream Media will MERCILESSLY stomp on the NEXT prez( republican, of COURSE)…..I …am…..ALWAYS…..CORRECT!!( very, VERY tough existence…..)

        • BigBadJohn

          Bill”The Raper”
          *******************

          Nuf said you are totally clueless – Big difference between rape and consensual sex between adults.

          • http://yahoo.com chas

            …HEY, CLUELES!!!!!…Google “Juanita Broderick”, IDIOT!!!!!!…Typical KNOW-NOTHING Blue-shirted Liberal NAZI!!!!!!!!!…IMBECILE!!!!!..

          • BigBadJohn

            chaz here ya go:

            In 1997, Broaddrick had filed a sworn affidavit with Paula Jones’ lawyers, denying that Clinton had ever assaulted her

            Then she changed her mind? So you believe an obvious liar?

          • BigBadJohn

            So you believe an obvious liar?

            Explains why you swallow all of the right wing lies and BS…..

          • http://yahoo.com Chas

            ….Biggest PROVEN/ KNOWN liar in history IS Bill”The Raper”; Notice how Blue-shirted Liberal NAZIZ NEVER indulge their own DISGUSTING ICONS with the same scrutiny they give people MUCH SMARTER than THEY are?(ie: “Sultry Sarah”/ “Mama Grizzly”et al)…..

      • Bob G

        God help us all from the likes of people like you.

        • http://yahoo.com Chas

          …@ least you have humanized me; I’ll not accord YOU equal dignity( you’re NOT worth it!!)……

    • marvin

      s c
      YOU ARE 100% RIGHT WMD ARE NOT I SAID ARE NOT JUST NUCLEAR,they are gas and germs ask over 100,000 of suddamms own citizens, what that you say but their dead,well how did they die according to the news and brain dead people only way to kill that menny people at one time would be nuclear,WMD WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION,i would think 100,000 people is a mass

      • http://?? Joe H.

        marvin,
        Like I said before here those khurds committed suicide by puffing on the tailpipes of saddams trucks!! At least that’s what the progressives would like to have us believe!!

        • BigBadJohn

          Joe, the cia made a statement that there was no way to tell just exactly who gassed the kurds. The incident occurred during the Iran- Iraq war and the area that was gassed was actually under Iran’s control at the time of the gassing. It is more likely that Iran gassed those Kurds….
          Of course that was not the story the Bush administration wanted you to hear!

          • Michael J.

            Ha Ha Ha Ha Wooooooo-Weeeee! Bush controled the media? Thanks for the belly laugh! Jon Stewart and Bill Mahr got nuthin on you man!

          • BigBadJohn

            micheal
            try reading for a change instead of believing everything you are fed from the right.

            found this in two seconds do your own research.

            http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1148.htm

            But the truth is, all we know for certain is that Kurds were bombarded with poison gas that day at Halabja. We cannot say with any certainty that Iraqi chemical weapons killed the Kurds. This is not the only distortion in the Halabja story.

            I am in a position to know because, as the Central Intelligence Agency’s senior political analyst on Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war, and as a professor at the Army War College from 1988 to 2000, I was privy to much of the classified material that flowed through Washington having to do with the Persian Gulf. In addition, I headed a 1991 Army investigation into how the Iraqis would fight a war against the United States; the classified version of the report went into great detail on the Halabja affair.

            This much about the gassing at Halabja we undoubtedly know: it came about in the course of a battle between Iraqis and Iranians. Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town, which is in northern Iraq not far from the Iranian border. The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq’s main target.

            And the story gets murkier: immediately after the battle the United States Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report, which it circulated within the intelligence community on a need-to-know basis. That study asserted that it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas.

          • Michael J.

            So did Iran Gas their own soldiers as well, or will you concede that Saddam had the will and the means to gas the Kurds and the Iranians?

          • Kinetic1

            BigBad,
            My understanding is that our intelligence agency reversed their findings 5 or 10 years later. Do you know anything about that?

          • Bruce D.

            “Ethnic Cleansing:
            The two dominant ethnicities of Iraq have traditionally been Arabs in south and central Iraq, and Kurds in the north and northeast, particularly along the Iranian border. Hussein long viewed ethnic Kurds as a long-term threat to Iraq’s survival, and the oppression and extermination of the Kurds was one of his administration’s highest priorities.”

            http://civilliberty.about.com/od/internationalhumanrights/p/saddam_hussein.htm

          • Bruce D.

            3.Chemical Weapons Against Kurds
            As early as April 1987, the Iraqis used chemical weapons to remove Kurds from their villages in northern Iraq during the Anfal campaign. It is estimated that chemical weapons were used on approximately 40 Kurdish villages, with the largest of these attacks occurring on March 16, 1988 against the Kurdish town of Halabja.

            Beginning in the morning on March 16, 1988 and continuing all night, the Iraqis rained down volley after volley of bombs filled with a deadly mixture of mustard gas and nerve agents on Halabja. Immediate effects of the chemicals included blindness, vomiting, blisters, convulsions, and asphyxiation. Approximately 5,000 women, men, and children died within days of the attacks. Long-term effects included permanent blindness, cancer, and birth defects. An estimated 10,000 lived, but live daily with the disfigurement and sicknesses from the chemical weapons.

            Saddam Hussein’s cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid was directly in charge of the chemical attacks against the Kurds, earning him the epithet, “Chemical Ali

          • Eric Bischoff

            Let’s not forget where they got the gas and how we opened up the air space to allow them top do it. Hypocritical!

          • http://facebooki AD Roberts

            I know you understand when I say, YOU CLAIM TO BE PART OF THE CIA. THAT MAKES YOU JUST A STEP BELOW SLIME. We have seen the incompetence of the State Dept. bureaucrats and know that the ethics and morality of the CIA has always been suspect. Something about ‘the end justifies the means’ always seems wrong. Especially when the one who determines the desired end may not be looking after the good of the nation, but have their own agend. Secret orgs. may be necessary, but they are always closer to the dark side.

          • http://yahoo.com Chas

            ..Do a little MORE research on BRODERICK, you freakin’ idiotic indoctrinated Blue-shirted Liberal NAZI!!!….

    • Stone

      It is true that Iraq had WMD’s at one time because we gave WMD’s to them or don’t you remember.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        stone,
        Prove that statement!!! Show me a site!! Or is that name STONER??

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Joe H…. I do so breaking your little right wing bubble.

          Here is a picture of Saddam & Rumsfeld together all buddy buddy: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/press.htm

          The story is there with it.

          Rob

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Robert Smith _ Rumsfeld I believe was the only US official to meet with Saddam, It was already rumored Saddam had WMDS, Thats why Rumsfeld was there.__I do believe, early in the game the US trained Saddam and his cronies, with that said, there were/are no guaratees, that Saddam wouldn’t use what they learned from us, against us or his own citizens and he did!?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Robert,
            you want to tell me where in that site it says WE GAVE THE WMDs TO SADDAM???

          • Bruce D.

            Rumsfeld talks about meeting Saddam in his book and in his interviews. It not like that would be some big right wing conspiracy.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Saddam was an assassin, he was on the CIA payroll and we installed him and kept him in power until we lost control of him.

          • Dan az

            Hey Joe
            Didn’t you see it?When Rumsfeld handed it to him in the picture!

        • http://facebooki AD Roberts

          Proof is simple. The MSM criticized the Bush admin. for not killing a known terrorist when they had info that he was at a rissen(sp) plant. They thought that no one would notice that they were admitting the Iraqis had the poison in their haste to attack Bush for failing to kill the terrorist.

      • http://yahoo.com chas

        ..Just ANOTHER Blue-shirted Liberal NAZI cliche!!…( UNTRUE, of COURSE…)

        • Kinetic1

          chas,
          On what information do you base your claim? Seems like those who feel the Reagan Administration was involved have all the proof.

          • http://yahoo.com chas

            …ANY site/ source you can find indicate ALL the technology came from Germany, France and Russia( remember how they did NOT favor our excursion into Iraq and wouldn’t join the coalition?..& how they were buying oil before/ during / after the emboargo?; GEE!!…What a Co-inky-dink!!)….

    • Peter

      s c, you are correct about the Kurds of course, however it was clearly known by many observers BEFORE the invasion of Iraq by dubya shrub, that there were NO WMD’s hidden by sadman hussein. The ONLY reason the shrub invaded Iraq was to secure its oil supplies, which was a process engineered covertly between the shrub, dick dastardly cheney and his former employers at haliburton. One only has to look at the FACT haliburton were awarded the ‘contract’ to manage Iraqi oil processing and distribution WITHOUT TENDER or any other normal due process.
      So, “bush administration did not intentionally lie about Iraqi WMD’s?”
      Oh look, up in the sky, more flying pigs! And these have purple polka-dots!
      And before you accuse me of being a leftie, you couldn’t be more wrong. I don’t support Dem or GOP, I seek the truth behind political and media lies, because I worked for a TV network for 12 years, and I have seen first-hand how the lies are formed and the truth manipulated both in the media and politics.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Peter,
        and we have gotten SO much oil from Iraq!!! The feilds aren’t even producing at 40% last I heard!!!

        • Bruce D.

          The United States does not get any of its oil from Iraq.

          • Peter

            Boy, those polka-dotted pigs sure are flying low these days!

          • Bruce D.

            We only get 7% of our oil from the Mideast in total Peter. Instead of talking about polka dotted pigs why don’t you goggle it and find out exactly how much oil we get from Iraq? Then I would know you are interested in the truth and not just promoting left wing nonsense.

          • BigBadJohn

            So why then did the Bush administration force the new Iraqi provisional government to sign all oil contracts over to American oil companies. ?

          • Curtis

            Bruce? The US received 340,000 barrels of oil from Iraq in NOVEMBER 2010.
            http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

      • http://facebooki AD Roberts

        My but you must have several fiction books out by now. Were these observers named Wilson, the famous couple whose SPYING (a joke) was revealed in spite.(another joke). And the killing of those Kurds was not be weapons of mass destruction. They all fell dead from fear of Saddam. But you said a mouth full when you admitted to working in TV for 12 years. You admitted the lack of factuality. What you did not say is that you are still a liberal but now disillusioned.

        As to the trash of the past, the numerous times the CIA, spies and everyone else all the way to the president got it wrong, I will admit. It is true. We have had some real stinkers. The question today and every day called ‘today’ is “Where are good people and how can we get the wicked, socialist, stupid, out of office and the good ones in? There are several options. The best is to bow to God and ask for forgiveness.

  • http://! Angel Wannabe

    On this one I have to agree with Rumsfeld, I don’t think the Bush Admin lied about WMDs either,and why would they? I think the right people in the Mid east got wind, Bush was comin after them, then and the middle east does what it does best, buried the evidence and/or like sc said, used them on the Kurds.

    • Kinetic1

      Angel and sc,
      The number of Kurds gassed by Hussein in 1988 is numbered in the thousands. We know what weapons he used since we gave him the materials. in The 1991 uprising, his troops massacred tens to hundreds of thousands more. There is little question that Hussein was a terrible man, though he was our ally and recipient of many bio agents and nuclear materials throughout the Reagan and Bush years. So we have established that he had weapons back in the 80s and 90s.

      Jump forward to 2003 when Bush II decided to invade Iraq. Are you suggesting that Hussein, warned that an attack was imminent used he store of chemical weapons to, once again kill thousands of his people and we were unaware of it? Don’t you think that sort of massacre would have been reported somewhere in the world?

      So, why would Rumsfeld lie? Shoot, we know he knew Hussein well, we even have a photo of the two of them together to prove it. We know Rumsfeld was involved in suppling the materials and technology Hussein used to kill his own people. Many of us also recall Rumsfeld’s claim that he knew where the weapons were hidden: “We know where [the weapons of mass destruction] are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.” He even knew what a cake walk this war would be: “”It could last six days, six weeks, I doubt six months.” So why would he lie? Because he and the Neocons were as much a part of the massacres as Hussein. Because Hussein could tell stories that would turn our government on it’s ears. Because that’s what Rumsfeld does. He lies. A Lot.

      • Bruce D.

        Wikipedia:
        “In the early 1970s, Saddam Hussein ordered the creation of a clandestine nuclear weapons program.[21] Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs were assisted by a wide variety of firms and governments in the 1970s and 1980s.[22][23][24][25][26] As part of Project 922, German firms such as Karl Kobe helped build Iraqi chemical weapons facilities such as laboratories, bunkers, an administrative building, and first production buildings in the early 1980s under the cover of a pesticide plant. Other German firms sent 1,027 tons of precursors of mustard gas, sarin, tabun, and tear gasses in all. This work allowed Iraq to produce 150 tons of mustard agent and 60 tons of Tabun in 1983 and 1984 respectively, continuing throughout the decade. Five other German firms supplied equipment to manufacture botulin toxin and mycotoxin for germ warfare. In 1988, German engineers presented centrifuge data that helped Iraq expand its nuclear weapons program. Laboratory equipment and other information was provided, involving many German engineers.”

      • Bruce D.

        “France built Iraq’s Osirak nuclear reactor in the late 1970s. Israel claimed that Iraq was nearing production of nuclear weapons, and destroyed the French-built reactor in 1981. Later, a French company built a turnkey factory which helped make nuclear fuel. France also provided glass-lined reactors, tanks, vessels, and columns used for the production of chemical weapons. Around 21% of Iraq’s international chemical weapon equipment was of French origin. Strains of dual-use biological material also helped advance Iraq’s biological warfare program.”

      • Bruce D.

        “Italy gave Iraq plutonium extraction facilities that advanced Iraq’s nuclear weapon program along with 75,000 shells and rockets designed for chemical weapons. Between 1979 and 1982 Italy gave depleted, natural, and low-enriched uranium. Swiss companies aided in Iraq’s nuclear weapons development in the form of specialized presses, milling machines, grinding machines, electrical discharge machines, and equipment for processing uranium to nuclear weapon grade. Brazil secretly aided the Iraqi nuclear weapon program by supplying natural uranium dioxide between 1981 and 1982 without notifying the IAEA. About 100 tons of mustard gas also came from Brazil.”

      • Bruce D.

        “In the late 80s, the British government secretly gave the arms company Matrix Churchill permission to supply parts for Saddam Hussein’s weapons program, while British Industry supplied Gerald Bull as he developed the Iraqi supergun. In March 1990, a case of nuclear triggers bound for Iraq, were seized at Heathrow Airport. The Scott Report uncovered much of the secrecy that had surrounded the Arms-to-Iraq affair when it became known.[31] The British government also financed a chlorine factory that was intended to be used for manufacturing mustard gas.”

      • Bruce D.

        “An Austrian company gave Iraq calutrons for enriching uranium. The nation also provided heat exchangers, tanks, condensers, and columns for the Iraqi chemical weapons infrastructure, which can hardly be said to be for energy. Singapore gave 4,515 tons of precursors for VX, sarin, tabun, and mustard gases to Iraq. The Dutch gave 4,261 tons of precursors for sarin, tabun, mustard, and tear gases to Iraq. Egypt gave 2,400 tons of tabun and sarin precursors to Iraq and 28,500 tons of weapons designed for carrying chemical munitions. India gave 2,343 tons of precursors to VX, tabun, Sarin, and mustard gases. Luxembourg gave Iraq 650 tons of mustard gas precursors. Spain gave Iraq 57,500 munitions designed for carrying chemical weapons. In addition, they provided reactors, condensers, columns and tanks for Iraq’s chemical warfare program, 4.4% of the international sales. China provided 45,000 munitions designed for chemical warfare. Portugal provided yellowcake between 1980 and 1982. Niger provided yellowcake in 1981″

      • Bruce D.

        “The United States exported support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq war|over $500 million worth of dual use exports to Iraq that were approved by the Commerce department. Among them were advanced computers, some of which were used in Iraq’s nuclear program.[28] The non-profit American Type Culture Collection and the Centers for Disease Control sold or sent biological samples of anthrax, West Nile virus and botulism to Iraq up until 1989, which Iraq claimed it needed for medical research. “

      • Bruce D.

        Kinetic1 says:
        “So, why would Rumsfeld lie? Shoot, we know he knew Hussein well, we even have a photo of the two of them together to prove it. We know Rumsfeld was involved in suppling the materials and technology Hussein used to kill his own people”
        A better question Kinetic1 is why would you lie other than mindless anti-American sentiment.

        • Dogma-Free “The Trinity”

          @Bruce D. – Why would Rummy lie?

          Because he’s a politician, and because *they* (the hawks of this country) were in bed with Saddam Hussein, when it was convenient for us (them) to be.

          Honestly, you people really need to stop watching FAUX ‘news’ for a while, and start looking into the history of the Middle East, and in particular, into the history of the CIA, and their constant involvement/meddling in the Middle East (and the Koreas, and Vietnam, and, and, and…), as it might shed some light for you as to why some of us have been saying the things we have been.

          • Bruce D.

            Dogma-Free says: @Bruce D. – Why would Rummy lie?
            Dogma-Free why would you lie? That was not my quote and I stated my source. It was not Fox News.

          • Dogma-Free “The Trinity”

            @Bruce D. – Yes, of course…you cited Wikipedia.

            So are you saying you’re not a regular watcher of Fox ‘news’…?

            Be careful when you answer that, as I’m sure you’ve heard the Sunday School version of the story about where liars go…

          • Bruce D.

            I do not go to Sunday school Dogma-Free. Lying is a personal choice we all are faced with from time to time. To the degree that we rely on it determines who we are whether religious or non religious.

          • http://facebooki AD Roberts

            You aren’t terribly smart. If you only listen to MSM and do not listen to Fox, You reduce the possibility that you will even come close to hearing a balanced picture of the news.

          • Dan az

            Bruce D
            Thanks for the facts!

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          Thank you for your accurate description of Saddams WMD programs. Were all (3) of the Superguns found and destroyed. As I recall one was a 1000 MM gun that could launch nuclear or bio/chem shells into souther Europe. Gerald Bull was a genius but he couldn’t keep his mouth shut. The Iraqi secret police shut it for him, permanently.

        • eddie47d

          Bruce;You provided us with some excellent information. Yet then had to slam the pertinate information of others. Since Europe and other nations provided Iraq with most of their chemicals and the USA provided Saddam with most of it’s weaponery then there are many guilty parties out there. Why was there so much obsession with arming this dictator? Who is really controlling the Middle East and fueling the flames? There is truly a military industrial complex and many players and Rumsfield and G.Bush are no heros.

          • Peter

            eddie47d, the US and other countries supplied sadman hussein with all that weaponry because they knew he was a renegade megalomaniac who was only in it for himself, and would readily oppose or attack his ‘arab brothers’ in order to further his own position (see Iraqi invasion of Kuwait if you need any proof).

          • eddie47d

            That would only prove further that we we’re willing to start wars by arming an evil man.

          • http://facebooki AD Roberts

            I don’t believe Peter. It is more likely that they were supporting Iraq in opposition to Iran after what Iran did to us. But then, I did not pay attention to the time line so I may be wrong. For sure, we have been against Iran ever since the Iran hostages.

        • Kinetic1

          Bruce,
          Before I can answer your question I need to understand it. “A better question Kinetic1 is why would you lie other than mindless anti-American sentiment.”

          Are you suggesting that I am lying about America’s involvement with Sadam Hussein? Your account of what the U.S. sent to Iraq only scratches the surface, and we haven’t even discussed the fact that the Reagan administration chose to forgive/excuse Hussein’s use of chemical weapons on his own people.

          Maybe you’re suggesting that I’m anti American because I didn’t mention the other countries who aided Sadam and provided weapons and materials. I didn’t mention them because they have nothing to do with Rumsfeld and whether or not he is lying. I must say it amazes me how people on this site drag in “facts” that have little to do with the subject and then claim we were trying to hide something. You just can’t help yourselves when you feel the urge to call those of us on the left unAmerican for pointing out our Governments faults, yet you are all Patriots when you complain about our Government.

          • Bruce D.

            Kenetic1 says: “We know Rumsfeld was involved in suppling the materials and technology Hussein used to kill his own people.” We don’t know that as the chemical weapons were supplied by Europe, not America as you suggest. The facts are pesky little things.

          • Kinetic1

            Bruce,
            How many times will I have to post this?
            “In a September 26, 2002, article entitled “Following Iraq’s Bioweapons Trail,” columnist Robert Novak wrote,
            “An eight-year-old Senate report confirms that disease-producing and poisonous materials were exported, under U.S. government license, to Iraq from 1985 to 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war. Furthermore, the report adds, the American-exported materials were identical to microorganisms destroyed by United Nations inspectors after the Gulf War. The shipments were approved despite allegations that Saddam used biological weapons against Kurdish rebels and (according to the current official U.S. position) initiated war with Iran.”
            http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ronald_Reagan/Reagan_WMD_Saddam.html

            Got it? That’s our own nation admitting that we sent Iraq “disease-producing and poisonous materials” tat were “identical to microorganisms destroyed by United Nations inspectors after the Gulf War.” I’m not saying that it was only the U.S., but you can’t keep denying our culpability and retain any credibility.

          • Bruce D.

            As I stated above. “The non-profit American Type Culture Collection and the Centers for Disease Control sold or sent biological samples of anthrax, West Nile virus and botulism to Iraq up until 1989, which Iraq claimed it needed for medical research. “

          • http://?? Joe H.

            kinetic,
            the site you placed is by an economics professor! His post is pure conjecture!!!

          • Bruce D.

            Kinetic1 you missed your calling. You should have been a press secretary for Obama. I mean that in a positive way. I can tell by reading your posts over time you put a lot of yourself into your posts. As most liberals much of the time you try to deflect attention somewhere else but you are better at it than most. I apologize for the name calling. You have always been polite with me. I should not have done that.

          • http://facebooki AD Roberts

            Our problem is simple. We compromise, and play with the devil thinking to make alliances to defeat another worse devil. It does not work. Compromise and allying ourselves with Stalin in WWII was a good idea as Roosevelt thought. He was not concerned with communism. He should have been. But refused to see the danger. When you partner with the wrong, for whatever reason, you are in trouble.

            Compromise, in the end, is WRONG.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          BruceD,Very good post and I see nowhere that the US supplied the materials or WMDs!

          • Kinetic1

            Joe,
            As noted above, you must not have looked too hard.

      • marvin

        is that any thing like the present bunch of clowns in power now obama holder clinton nepolitano they would never tell a lie unless their lips are moving

        • Dogma-Free “The Trinity”

          @marvin – Yes, marvin, it’s exactly the same thing.

          Well, almost. ‘Democrats’ don’t really start wars…they just keep them going, until they’re told (by their corporate masters) to stop them, or – as often seems to be the case – until they’re voted out of office, so the next ‘Republican’ president is ordered to do so, in order to make the ‘Republicans’ look like they’re the ‘deciders in chief’, and to make the ‘Democrats’ look soft.

          All-in-all, they’re all pretty much one and the same anymore, but the appearances are important, so they maintain this facade, in order to keep the American people at odds with each other.

          Some people call it ‘social engineering’, and others call it ‘smoke and mirrors’ – the end result is the same, either way.

          • BigBadJohn

            As opposed to the republicans that start wars for their corporate masters.
            Also know as “imperialism” just like the old monarchy’s used to do…

          • http://facebooki AD Roberts

            Are you saying that Roosevelt was not in power when WWII got us?
            Eisenhower sent advisors. Are you saying that Kennedy and Johnson did not make it into a war?

            You apparently think that all wars are started at the instruction of BIG BUSINESS. If they would just have listened to Chamberlain and submitted themselves to subservience to Hitler, we would never nave had WWII. If we would just stop trying to stop massacres of millions of people by their own government, we could enjoy our life of luxury and greed. Let us ignore the starving, the drug trafficing(Drug users make their own choices(never mind their violence to get drug money)). Focus, Focus Focus. Take care of yourself. If you don’t, you will be forgotten by history. Oh, that’s right. I bet you don’t know the names of your 4 greatgrandfathers. You are going to be forgotten.

      • http://yahoo.com chas

        …Yet MORE Blue-shirted Liberal NAZI IDIOTIC cliches/ slogans…..

        • Peter

          When you have no valid argument, just yell and scream.
          Stop watching the news on TV chas and do some real research.
          I know you can read, otherwise you wouldn’t be on here.

          • BigBadJohn

            You give him too much credit.

        • Curtis

          Hahaha… ladies and gentlemen the NEWEST entry in the oxymoron dictionary… “Nazi Liberal”!! Well done Chas! You should win a prize for this one. Hahaha “Nazi Liberal” ahh hahaha.

          • http://facebooki AD Roberts

            Makes perfect sense to me. Nazis were one step from communism. I don’t know if you understand this but communism is socialism. And the people we call ‘liberals’ these days are racing to socialism just as fast as they can.

            What you doing? Trying to make a separtion between liberals and Nazis? That is a new spin. Did not work.

          • http://yahoo.com Chas

            …From the German: “Nationale Zocialiste” or NATIONAL SOCIALIST….WHO is nationalizing industry & allowing union takeover?…WHO is socializing our healthcare/ services?…. Why, the Blue-shirted Liberal NAZIZ, THAT’s who!!…As you can see, the LABEL is AXIOMATIC & self-defining/ descriptive….BLU-SHIRTED LIBERAL NAZI!!…GET it??!!( probably NOT; need critical thinking abilities)….

      • BigBadJohn

        “There were about 700 inspections, and in no case did we find weapons of mass destruction,” said Hans Blix, ”

        Same guy that was inspecting
        Iraq for two years before Bush made up his own proof.

        • Michael J.

          All hail to the hammer and sickle, and Hans Blix, the communist sympathiser.

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          Your right not so Bad John. That thing with the Kurds and the poison gas attacks on the Iranian Army were just fairy tales. When the US did find 25 tons of bio/chem weapons the liberal explained it as just some old stuff.

          • BigBadJohn

            25 tons????

            better straighten out your tin foil hat – even Santorum says:

            Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: “Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq’s pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist.”

            Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html#ixzz1DgepGhyq

        • http://yahoo.com chas

          ..I’ve got a HUNDRED IQ points on you IDIOT BSLN; I also live in the world of REALITY/ FACTS and NOT Blue-shirted Liberal NAZI cliches/ slogans/ non-sequiters….

        • http://facebooki AD Roberts

          Do you think you would have any difficulty hiding ANYTHING in all that sand. I don’t believe you

        • http://facebooki AD Roberts

          I will leave it at this. The MSM said there were NO WMD. Therefore, I believe there were and still are. In the last blow up with Lebanon, the terrorist there started bragging about what they were about to do to Israel. Suddenly it was all hushed up. They have part of the store of WMD and will eventually use them. Someone stopped them for some reason, probably fear of the good old USA. The Muslims are trying to find a way to render us powerless. Then they will attack.

      • Michael J.

        Operation Savandar

        Remember the news of Russian truck convoys in the Iraqi dessert that extended from horizon to horizon in both a north and south direction that were captured by satellite imagery just prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq? You know, the one day news event which seemed to just vanish off the radar screen of daily news without explanation?

        To solve the mystery of the convoys cargo, first you must travel to the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon and be sure to bring a shovel and some C-4 explosives. Because what you are looking for is buried 700 ft deep and encased in concrete. You might want to bring an AK47 as well because the area is heavily guarded and under constant satellite surveillance. In the stark nothingness of the dessert sands, the procession of heavily laden trucks carrying Saddam’s secrets must have appeared like The Great Wall of China from our peering eyes orbiting above in space.

        How can it be, you ask? For that you’ll need to ask Yevgeni Primakov, who spear headed “Operation Savandar”, A group of crack Russian Spetsnaz troops charged with the removal and clean-up of Saddam’s WMD arsenal.

        But why, you say? Because the U.S. hoped to enlist the support of the Chinese, the French and the Russians, whose weapons were the target of the removal/clean-up operation. In addition, it was thought at the time by the Bush administration that turning a blind eye to the joint Russian-Iraqi operation was serving our purpose by ridding Saddam of WMD. And the fact that they were being buried by others saved the U.S. from another dreadful scenario, if we had discovered Saddam’s WMD ourselves we would have then been tasked with their safe disposal in a manner acceptable to every tree hugger on the planet. So the decision was made to keep mum and let the operation proceed un-encumbered knowing full well that satellite surveillance of the area would be necessary indefinitely to assure that no one attempted to exhume them, in fact if the truth is ever revealed about Operation Savandar, it will be because someone has tried to dig them up.

        The truth is out there for all those willing to dig, metaphorically speaking of course.

        • BigBadJohn

          Good article:
          http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-02-03-iraq-misjudge-usat_x.htm

          In July 1998, a commission led by Donald Rumsfeld, who would become Bush’s Defense secretary, cautioned that U.S. intelligence might not be able to warn of emerging ballistic-missile threats from states such as North Korea, Iran and Iraq. The solution, the panel advised, was a new kind of analysis to “extrapolate a program’s scope, scale, pace and direction beyond what the hard evidence at hand unequivocally supports.”

          As Defense secretary, Rumsfeld would insist that war in Iraq was waged on solid intelligence. Increasingly, however, it appears that U.S. intelligence followed the course set by Rumsfeld’s 1998 panel in extrapolating the scope of the Iraqi threat “beyond … the hard evidence at hand.”

          Weeks before the invasion, however, there were signs that the CIA might be mistaken. U.N. inspectors visited the sites where the convoy photos were taken and scores of other locations, but they found no trace of chemical or biological weapons. At the CIA’s prodding, the inspectors looked for decontamination trucks but reported finding standard water tankers with no evidence of decontamination gear.

          Since the war, no decontamination vehicle has been found, the four intelligence officials said. U.S. interrogators have questioned scores of Iraqi military truck drivers. They either say they know nothing or tell stories that don’t check out, according to a Pentagon official with knowledge of the search effort.

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Right. And the Communists didn’t keep our POWs after WW11, Korea, and Viet Nam. Damn you’re gullible.

          • BigBadJohn

            Gunner

            Pot calling the kettle black

          • http://?? Joe H.

            BigBadJohn,
            I suggest you read a copy of “kiss the Boys Goobye” if you don’t believe that the NVA kept our POWS after the war! When we took over the war, the NVA had French POWs that had been prisoners for over twenty years. you want to make me believe that the French can survive but the Americans didn’t have the reserve to do it?? Pound sand if you do!!

          • BigBadJohn

            JOE

            What the flip are you talking about? I never said ANYTHING about the NVA…..

            I was just pointing out the story about Saddam sending WMD’s across the border does not hold water – Just like all of the other lies the Bush administration made up.

          • Michael J.

            Saddam’s WMD in Lebanon
            http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=24713#ixzz1DkWpFXVx

            Saddam’s WMD in Bekaa Valley, Lebanon

            The U.S. intelligence community has received evidence a sizable amount of Iraqi WMD systems, components and platforms were transferred to Syria in the weeks leading up to the U.S.-led war in Iraq, reports Geostrategy-Direct, the global intelligence news service.
            But chances are the Bush administration won’t be releasing this information for a while.

            The convoys were spotted by U.S. satellites in early 2003, but the contents of the WMD convoys from Iraq to Syria were not confirmed.
            Confirmation later came from Iraqi scientists and technicians questioned by a U.S. team that was searching for Saddam’s conventional weapons. But all they knew was the convoys were heading west to Syria.
            But over the last few months, U.S. intelligence managed to track the Iraqi WMD convoy to Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley.
            Through the use of satellites, electronic monitoring and human intelligence, the intelligence community has determined that much, if not all, of Iraq’s biological and chemical weapons assets are being protected by Syria, with Iranian help, in the Bekaa Valley.
            The Syrians received word from Saddam Hussein in late 2002 that the Iraqi WMD would be arriving and Syrian army engineering units began digging huge trenches in the Bekaa Valley.
            Saddam paid more than $30 million in cash for Syria to build the pits, acquire the Iraqi WMD and conceal them.
            At first, U.S. intelligence thought Iraqi WMD was stored in northern Syria. But in February 2003 a Syrian defector told U.S. intelligence the WMD was buried in or around three Syrian Air Force installations.
            But intelligence sources said the Syrians kept dual-use nuclear components for themselves while transferring the more incriminating material to Lebanon.

          • Michael J.

            Debka File report:
            Subject: Debka – Syrans Hid Iraqi WMDs in Lebanon
            greytraveller 5/4/2003 2:00:34 AM
            According to a report from Debka.com (today May 4) Bashar Assad and the Syrians hid a large portion of Iraq’s WMDs in large pits in the Syrian controlled Bekaa valley in Lebanon.
            The transfer of the WMDs from Iraq through Syria into Lebanon was completed just 10 days before the war began on March 20. The Syrians were reportedly paid $ 35 million by the Iraqis to cover costs and for services rendered.
            Again, according to Debka the US government is aware of this development. Secretary of State Colin Powell ‘discussed’ this issue with Assad during his recent visit to Syria.

          • Michael J.

            Wikipedia:
            Bekaa Valley,Lebanon

            A road through the Bekaa Valley American Internet newspaper World Tribune reported in August 2003 that Iraq’s WMD may have been moved to Lebanon’s heavily-fortified Bekaa Valley. According to the story, United States intelligence identified “a stream of tractor-trailer trucks” moving from Iraq through Syria to Lebanon in the weeks before invasion.
            Former United States Deputy Undersecretary of Defense John A. Shaw also alleged that the Russians played an extensive role in transporting materials into both Syria and Lebanon, “to prevent the United States from discovering them.” Shaw claimed trucks were transporting materials to Syria and returning empty. In addition, containers with warnings painted on them were moved to a Beirut hospital basement. “They were moved by Russian Spetsnaz (special forces) units out of uniform, that were specifically sent to Iraq to move the weaponry and eradicate any evidence of its existence”. China is also alleged to have helped remove WMD equipment. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs Lawrence Di Rita called Shaw’s charges “absurd and without any foundation.” DiRita noted that Shaw “has been directed on several occasions to produce evidence of his wide-ranging and fantastic charges and provide it to the DoD inspector general. To my knowledge, he has not done so.” In reply to official denials, Shaw claimed that the Bush administration had made efforts to cover up the intelligence data that he had revealed. “Larry DiRita made sure that this story would never grow legs,” he said, insisting the Russian “clean-up” operation “was a masterpiece of military camouflage and deception.” Former Russian Foreign Intelligence director Evgeny Primakov rejected the story, telling Kommersant that “all of Shaw’s sensational revelations are complete nonsense.”

          • Michael J.

            Wikipedia:
            Romanian intelligence defector Ion Mihai Pacepa alleged that an operation for the removal of chemical weapons was prepared by the Soviet Union for Libya, and that he was told over thirty years ago by Romanian President Nicolae Ceauşescu, KGB chairman Yury Andropov, and later, Yevgeny Primakov, about the existence of a similar plan for Iraq. It is “perfectly obvious”, wrote Pacepa, that the Russian GRU agency helped Saddam Hussein to destroy, hide, or transfer his chemical weapons prior to the American invasion of Iraq in 2003. “After all, Russia helped Saddam get his hands on them in the first place.”

            John Loftus, director of The Intelligence Summit, said in the November 16, 2007 issue of FrontPage Magazine that many documents from Iraq point to WMD being transferred to other countries such as Syria: “As stated in more detail in my full report, the British, Ukrainian and American secret services all believed that the Russians had organized a last minute evacuation of CW and BW stockpiles from Baghdad to Syria.” His researchers allegedly found a document ordering the concealment of nuclear weapons equipment in storage facilities under the Euphrates River a few weeks before the invasion.

          • Michael J.

            Deleted from Wikipedia:
            Operation Sarindar” (meaning “emergency exit”) was an alleged operating procedure designed by Soviet military intelligence to get rid of all traces of chemical weapons delivered or produced under Soviet guidance in Third World countries “if the Western imperialists ever got near them”.[2]

            According to former Romanian Securitate general Ion Mihai Pacepa, “we wanted to make sure they would never be traced back to us, and we also wanted to frustrate the West by not giving them anything they could make propaganda with.” He claimed that the Operation Sarindar planned for Libya included the following components [2]:

            “All chemical weapons were to be immediately burned or buried deep at sea” since such weapons “often do not retain lethal properties after a few months on the shelf and are routinely dumped anyway.”
            “Technological documentation, however, would be preserved in microfiche buried in waterproof containers for future reconstruction.”
            An elaborate propaganda routine to deny the existence of WMD (“please come here and see”).
            Ion Mihai Pacepa stated that he was told by Romanian President Nicolae Ceauşescu, KGB chairman Yury Andropov, and Yevgeny Primakov about the existence of a similar plan for Iraq.[2] [4]

            Statements by John A. Shaw
            Former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense John A. Shaw, a “top Pentagon official who was responsible for tracking Saddam Hussein’s weapons programs before and after the 2003 liberation of Iraq,” stated in October 2004, March 2005, and again in February 2006 that it was the Russians who helped Saddam Hussein to “clean up” his weapons of mass destruction stockpiles “to prevent the United States from discovering them.”

            In particular, on February 18, 2006, Shaw “told an audience” at “a privately sponsored The Intelligence Summit ” in Alexandria, Virginia, that “The short answer to the question of where the WMD Saddam bought from the Russians went was that they went” to Syria and the Beqaa Valley in Lebanon, Kenneth R. Timmerman reported February 19, 2006, in NewsMax. “They were moved by Russian Spetsnaz (special forces) units out of uniform, that were specifically sent to Iraq to move the weaponry and eradicate any evidence of its existence,” Shaw said.

            After accusing Russian special forces of helping Saddam to remove his WMD, Shaw was asked to resign for “exceeding his authority” in disclosing the information, a charge he called “specious.”[6] [2].

            According to a NewsMax report, Shaw claimed the following in 2006[5]:

            In December 2002, the execution of operation Sarindar was conducted by Russian GRU service and Iraqi military. The purpose of the operation was to remove all chemical weapons and technical documentation from Iraq, so that country would be announced “WMD free.”
            In addition to the trucks, which transported Iraqi WMD to Syria and Lebanon in February and March 2003, “two Russian ships set sail from the (Iraqi) port of Umm Qasr headed for the Indian Ocean [3],” where Shaw believes they “deep-sixed” additional stockpiles of Iraqi WMD from flooded bunkers in southern Iraq that were later found by U.S. military forces.
            The “clean-up” operation was conducted by GRU and Spetsnaz troops and other Russian military and civilian personnel in Iraq.
            Shaw claimed that U.S. intelligence knows “the identity and strength of the various Spetsnaz units, their dates of entry and exit in Iraq, and the fact that the effort (to clean up Iraq’s WMD stockpiles) with a planning conference in Baku from which they flew to Baghdad.

            Statements by Ion Mihai Pacepa
            Former Romanian Securitate General Ion Mihai Pacepa supported the story of John A. Shaw. He said: “As a former Romanian spy chief who used to take orders from the Soviet KGB, it is perfectly obvious to me that Russia is behind the evanescence of Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. After all, Russia helped Saddam get his hands on them in the first place.”[2] “The U.S. military in fact, has already found the only thing that would have been allowed to survive under the classic Soviet “Sarindar” plan to liquidate weapons arsenals in the event of defeat in war — the technological documents showing how to reproduce weapons stocks in just a few weeks”, he claimed.

            He said that

            Such a plan has undoubtedly been in place since August 1995 — when Saddam’s son-in-law, Gen. Hussein Kamel, who ran Iraq’s nuclear, chemical and biological programs for 10 years, defected to Jordan. That August, UNSCOM and IAEA inspectors searched a chicken farm owned by Kamel’s family and found more than one hundred metal trunks and boxes containing documentation dealing with all categories of weapons, including nuclear. Caught red-handed, Iraq at last admitted to its “extensive biological warfare program, including weaponization,” issued a “Full, Final and Complete Disclosure Report” and turned over documents about the nerve agent VX and nuclear weapons.

            According to Bodansky,

            The major case where the Russians were involved was the evacuation of the forces—the entire Iraqi arsenal … not just WMD, but also artillery pieces, tanks, troops, etc., that were arrayed for the defense of Baghdad, once Saddam Hussein realized that the game was all over.[8]
            Bodansky stated that “the apparent absence of WMD munitions in Iraq demonstrates only one aspect of a comprehensive intelligence blinder, namely,

          • http://facebooki AD Roberts

            The article is USA Today. They are left and liberal. Why would believe anything they say. Worse than the New York Times or Washington Post. Did not read your post as a result.

        • Dan az

          Good one michael where did you find that?

      • http://facebooki AD Roberts

        Who says so. Wiki? Huffington Post? Some lib on the Beast? We all KNOW is the statement of someone is trying to use the argument of ‘they say’, when they have NO proof.

    • Peter

      One point everyone on here has neglected to mention is the fact that historically, all middle-eastern areas were tribally controlled, not formed into countries. Those tribal factions are still in existence today, but they are broader now that there are country borders to delineate their zones of power. They mostly play nicely together because many of them see the west as their common infidel enemy, however they would go back to slitting each others throats at the drop of a hat if they didn’t hate us so much, and if the US didn’t wield such a big stick.

      • Dan az

        Peter
        exactly right thats why you could never win a war in afghanistan there is no government just tribes.

  • Jeep

    I find it interesting that we waited to invade Iraq for a bit of time after 9-11. Perhaps to give the Russian scientists involved in Iraq’s nuclear program time to leave? Of course, if you knew the US was coming for you, would you keep the evidence/program in your backyard? No, you would send it to Syria.

    • Marilyn

      You are correct in saying that they sent their evidence to Syria. I saw a man on a Christian program that was in Iraq at the time that this was all happening and he said that Saddam was loading it on commercial jets after removing the seats and sending it to Syria. I believe that is proof don’t you? I never believed that Bush was telling lies. After all then they found Saddam hiding in a hole in the ground. He was an awful person! It wasn’t Bush’s fault that he waited to do anything, it was the United Nations that made us wait before we went in and that gave Saddam time to get all his WMD moved! That was an I witness! God help us if we can’t find out about this kind of news before we condemn someone. God’s word tells us that we are not to be false witnesses. People are watching the wrong news and taking the MEDIA’S false reports. They are in with the devil’s work. Bush was correct in saying that this is a spiritual war. God be with us all!

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Well said Marilyn.

        • Tazio2013

          Marilyn & Angel Wannabe,

          Two delusional, crusading christian conservative, white wing wackos who are ignorant of objective reality and other mind enhancing concepts. You two ought to get a room and compare delusions.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Ah Shove it Taz, ya got nothing!_You’re just a Progressive sheep!__Tazzy had a little lamb, Little Lamb___Baaaaa!__yeah I borrowed JeffHs line!

          • Michael J.

            tazio,
            You speak of objective reality, yet you have none. The way you mention objective reality makes it sound like the newest designer drug being pitched by someone in need of rehab.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Taz,
            get out of oz, man! They don’t have a brain for you either!!!

          • Eric Bischoff

            I couldn’t have said it better. This small clique of know nothings provide absolutely no value ever. They pick fights with everyone who provides an alternative or opposing viewpoint to their narrow minded ideologies. They are never interested in facts. They have bought and drank and continue to drink the koolaid and are proud of it. Sad small-minded fools.

          • libertytrain

            eric, Careful as you seem to be tripping over your expansive – yet painfully unimpressive – ego not quite deftly draped over your lavish – yet quite garish – suit of arrogance.

          • http://facebooki AD Roberts

            Did you notice that Taz and Eric attack the women for being Christians. Does that tell you where they come from. Did you notice the personal attack without dealing with the issues. I believe I have heard such people called trolls.

          • Dan az

            Its funny to me that these trolls all sound the same just the name changes.I would guess this one to be smiley wouldnt you?

      • Dogma-Free “The Trinity”

        @Marilyn – Yeah, I had a guy tell me once that he had some great swampland for sale in Florida, and that he would sell it to me at a great price!

        I believe he was also a ‘christian’.

        Believe me, I appreciate how willing you are to want to believe that your dear friend, Dubya, would never lie to you since he claims to be a born-again holy-roller – it’s truly charming, really, it is. It means you want desperately to believe the best in people (as long as they’re white and ‘christian’, most likely)…and again, I can’t stress enough how precious that is of you.

        However, it’s just not realistic.

        We – well, the hawks of America – PLACED Saddam into power, to piss off the Iranians (whom we also had a beef with back then, apparently), and then were upset when Saddam started to do what his people expected him to do all along – rule their country, without American involvement.

        It’s interesting to note now, that – since the unlawful invasion of Iraq – Iraqi Christians have been run out of the country by the restof Iraq.

        So, that’s what George Dubya Bush did for his (supposed) *fellow* Christians…he made it so they lost their homes.

        You must be wondering how this could even be, since…well, you know…we ‘liberated’ them, and ‘brought democracy’ to their country, and all…

        God…you’d almost think that maybe…just maybe…they (the Iraqis) didn’t want our ‘democracy’…

        *gasp*

        • http://facebooki AD Roberts

          You call names and put down for us being Christians. You think us simple and you are so wise. As to the Christians being run out of Iraq now, that is the result of our Muslim president who not raise a finger to enforce the law on the books about dealing with countries that are religiously represive. Have you noticed that the 2 or 3 of you on this site are out of step with the opinions and facts that the others supply.

          I am sure that I believe and most of the others on this site, that you are 5th colume. You are here not to inform but to cause chaos if the discussion. Most of these people just ignore you. I guess I should too. You remind me of an old saying, “Don’t bother me with the facts. My mind(what there is of it) is made up.”

      • eddie47d

        Marilyn; “we are not to be false witnesses”? We do it all the time whether politically or worldly.

    • http://yahoo.com chas

      …Absolutely…..100%……..CORRECT!!…( Please try to straighten out the IDIOTIC Blue-shirted Lberal NAZIZ above!!)….

  • jopa

    Before going into the Iraq war there were so many mixed up messages no one knew what to believe.There were weapon inspectors in Iraq and they couldn’t find any thing.One day the news would say you need a huge building to make WMDs and when they couldn’t find one they would say oh the Iraqi’s are making WMDs on mobile semi trucks and keep moving.The Bush administration said they knew exactly where they were but we have to invade to find them and not only that but Saddam threatened my daddy.The world had just kicked the crap out of Iraq and GW thought he would become an American hero at no cost to America.The liberators would be greeted with fluttering rose petals parades hugs and kisses.That didn’t work out so well with GWs visions of grandeur so he turned into a war criminal and also looted the US treasury with cost plus contracts to his cronies like Haliburton.Then he puts it all on acredit card and blames the next administration for his theft of trillions.

    • marvin

      jopa
      a little fact when bill clinton left office we were about 4 trillion dollars in the red when bush left office we were around 9 trillion with a dem controlled congress both houses from 2006 and the pres from 08 tell 2010 right now the dept is around 14.5 trillion,now i an,t a rocket scientist but the dept was in 2000, 4 trillion to 2006 about 6 trillion from 2006 tell now 14.5 obama has blew more money in 3 years then ever president from washington on 1.5 trillion a year for 3 years is 4.5 trillion facts, just the facts is what we deal in not liberal lies

      • http://yahoo.com chas

        …THAT is because the Blue-shirted Liberal NAZIZ holding the pursestrings(aka: DUM-O-CRAPS!!) blew the budget wide OPEN!!( see “Present Time”…..)…

      • BigBadJohn

        Let me put the number to it for you.

        Bush inherited a 100 billion dollar deficit.

        First thing he did was give tax cut which amounted to 400 billion.

        The next thing he did, was start two UNFUNDED war to the tune of another 400 billion per year.

        Bush and republican controlled house and senate added 800 billion dollars to the deficit. But because the wars were unfunded – it did not show up on the books as Bush’s deficit.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      The so-called inspectors had to give a 48hr. notice to the Iraqi gvt. before inspecting any facility and the Iraqi gvt. had to give their approval before any on-site inspection ocurred. Any wonder why nothing was found ?

      • BigBadJohn

        Total distortion of facts. I challenge you to prove your statement.

        • BigBadJohn

          crickets…..

      • Bruce D.

        Also Saddam would not let Iraq scientists be questioned in private in addition to limitations on UN inspectors. Saddam Husein was his own worst enemy. He did everything he could to make it look like he was a bigger threat than he actually was.

        • BigBadJohn

          True for the first round of inspections, even though Scott Ritter claimed the inspectors destroyed 100% of Saddam’s WMD manufacturing ability and probably 95% of the weapons. Which proved to be VERY accurate.

          The second Round of inspection Hans Blix had unprecedented access to anyone he wanted to interview or any site he wanted to inspect.

          Do yourself a favor – read.

          • Bruce D.

            I would be difficult not to noticed that you are very selective in your reading.

    • http://facebooki AD Roberts

      How long do you suppose an inspector would have gone without having an unfortante, fatal accident if he had forced his way and found WMD?

  • Tazio2013

    Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld; three criminals that will never be forgotten or forgiven for the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children; and BHO continues these criminal republikrat activities.

    And for those relatively few PLD readers that are open-minded, clear-thinking, freedom-loving, justice-demanding, here is an article from TDB:

    http://www.thedailybell.com/1752/Middle-East-Revolutions-Force-West-to-Knees.html

    • Donald

      You got that Right!

    • http://yahoo.com chas

      …DUH!!…DUM-O-CRAPS were in charge of ALL of congress the last FOUR YEARS!!…If there were ANY evidence of “W” crimes, the WHOLE CABINET would be in JAIL NOW!!..We know the ONLY thing Blue-shirted Liberal NAZIZ do WELL is INVENT LIES!!…Through their BSLN surrogates in the Lamestream Media, these “inventions” are WELL documented( Anthropogenic Global Warming, Florida/200,Plame-Gate,halliburton criminality,”W”lied/ “Thousands died”, “No-blood-for-oil”,”DUM-O-CRAP candidates are BRILLIANT”….AND…wasn’t HORE-LARY going to be our NEXT PREZ?[SEVEN YEARS heard THAT one!!])…Still……NO LIE STICKS!!(EXCEPT among the STUPID!!)…..TRUTH has been on the side of the”TRUTHISTS”; NO member of “W” cabinet is in jail for any “so-called” CRIME, and they WOULD have been if there were ANY evidence otherwise….Remember, you BSLN!!…Although you are GODLESS, you STILL DIE with the SAME LIES you LIVE WITH!!….

      • Dogma-Free “The Trinity”

        hahaha…I think ‘chas’ is really just Sarah (Who’s Nailin’) Palin.

        • Peter

          No, I think we’ll see chas very soon on our local TV network, having just shot up some Dem meeting somewhere, loaded to the teeth with automatic weapons and scotch or pills (or both).
          He sure speaks like that’s his aim.
          Maybe he’s a taxi driver!

          • http://yahoo.com chas

            ….Hmmmmm…..Thanx for the SUGGESTION!!…Hope to SEE YOU there!!!!!…….

        • http://yahoo.com chas

          …You just fantasize over a REAL WOMAN like “Sultry Sarah”/ “Mama Grizzly”; too bad you’re stuck with all those Blue-shirted Liberal NAZI hags like Eleanor CLIT(of course, even SHE is probably TOO PRETTY for the likes of YOU!!)..and keep your hands off your q-tip when you’re thinking of Palin…..She’s proven she’s MUCH SMARTER than ANY of her CRITICS!!….

      • BigBadJohn

        DUM-O-CRAPS were in charge of ALL of congress the last FOUR YEARS!!…
        ***************
        So you think the Democrats controlled congress for
        Last four years of Bush’s administration??

        Better check your facts!!! republicans controlled ALL THREE branches of government up until 2006 but republicans still controlled the other two branches.

        • http://yahoo.com Chas

          ….You have PROVEN that you CANNOT READ!!!…DUM-OCRAPS HAVE BEEN IN CHARGE OF ALL OF CONGRESS THE LAST FOUR YEARS!!….GET it, get OVER it, and get ON with it, you IDIOT!!!!!!!!AND….There is NO GREATER LIAR(…hmmmm…. MAYBE Komrad ZERO=BAMA….) than Bill “The Raper”(…. and a CONVICTED LIAR @ that: wassa matter?…. FACTS got your tongue?….Can’t twist history like Blue-shirted Liberal NAZIZ LOVE to do?….)

  • kanthonyb

    jopa
    What an interesting fantasy. I am amazed at the continual rewrite of the facts and the lack of mention of the bi-partisan, international agreement on the evidence for WMD’s. We seem to forget the star-studded list of Democratic senators and congressmen that agreed with and approved of the invasion. How convenient. It’s just like all the budget busting bills that were passed during the last administration and blamed on GWB – how did senator Obama vote on those?

    • Tazio2013

      kanthonyb,

      You are indeed delusional when you fail to understand that the US is under one party – republikrat – rule and has been since at least 1913 and probably before, There is no real difference between GWB & BHO; they both are controlled and commanded by the fewer than one-ten-thousandth of one-percent of the NWO/PTB/GPE wealthy white males that make the big decisions; i.e., war, genocide, price of oil, devaluation of US dollar, euro and other fiat currencies. Try a little objective reality for a change:

      http://www.thedailybell.com/1751/IMF-Calls-for-SDR-Denominated-Bonds.html

      • TIME

        Tazio,
        You are correct on most of you’re post.

        But my firend the fact is that its the Progressive’s who are mostly in the Democratic party that have brought about what you have noted.

        Yes there are indeed a number of Progressive’s within the Republican party as well. But the numbers are really very few at around 25% in the Republican party’s leaders.
        Now compaired to 78% of the Democratic party’s leaders are members of the Progressive movment. As well 40% of the Democratic leaders are also members of the American Socialist party.

        • Tazio2013

          TIME,

          You are just another individual who has been mesmerized by the Hegelian Dialectic.

          • TIME

            Taz,
            No my friend I am one who see’s, as well I am in a far better place to know whats really going on then most of the worlds population.

            But hey, until you drop the radical pose and start grasping the TRUTH with out attachments saddly you will spin in circles like everyone else.
            As there is “NO MEDIA OUTLET” that presents anyone with the full truth. Thus how you gain knoledge is bent from the root.
            Thus what ever you claim is you’re trusted sorce is not solid, even Alex Jones is missing many steps.

            That is unless you feel that Socialism is good idea, if thats the case then you would be one of the Progressive’s many Tools who have created everything you say you are against. So what is it Taz?

            Of what by the way the NWO is the “Progressive” movment, They have only one goal. Thats complete and total world domination, where there will be only two class’s of humans; the “POOR” who work for the ELIETE 500 familys.

          • Dan az

            Welcome back Time!

      • marvin

        Tazio2013
        i was just wondering how long it would take to blame a white man for all the problums in the world,but that what you get from a brain dead liberal ,were you born stuped or droped on your head moron,

        • Tazio2013

          marvin,

          You expose your ignorance when you write so, in the future consider learning how to spell, punctuate and think before you write a sentence that is, hopefully, grammatically correct.

          • Dogma-Free “The Trinity”

            Ohhh, SNAP!!!!

            haha…Marvin, you have to admit he really got you there.

            I mean, it’s one thing to call someone names, or call them a poopie-head, or whatever other childish retorts you insecure far-right pin-heads resort to when your ideas of ‘reality’ (and/or faith) are challenged, but for the sweet love of beer, man…

            LEARN TO F**KING SPELL AND PUNCTUATE PROPERLY ALREADY, WOULD YA…??!?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Taz__ Who the H*ll died and Left you the spelling police?__Get over it!!!_Twit!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            U TOO, Dogma_ Neither one of you have facts, so you go on the attack!___Shove it!

          • eddie47d

            Angel; You provide NO facts yet bellyache about others. Yawn!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Ah button your lip eddie, your just another Liberal parrot too!

          • eddie47d

            Angel, typical “conservative” always trying to shut someone up. Oh,My!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Angel Wannabe,
            you have to remember that eddies middle name is DUH! and dogma is just biding his time till he can become Dogma deux deux!!!

          • Kinetic1

            Angel/marvin,
            You have to see the irony in calling someone a moron while misspelling stupid (and problems, and dropped.) There are times when you simply MUST get it right.

          • Bruce D.

            Kenetic1 that was absolutely funny in addition to being true.

  • Cawmun Cents

    There was a procedural issue.There are diplomatic hoops that must be jumped through.If the Fed had stormtroopered them they would likely have found what they were looking for.But for the sake of appearing to do things lawfully,the WMD’s were lost.

  • stevor

    Bush was in the dark and probably still is in the dark. Cheney was his puppeteer and from what I’ve read, it wasn’t until the latter years that Bush realized that.

    Classic is the look on his face when told of 911. It seemed as though he was thinking, “duh, was that what they meant (blowing up the buildings) when they (the CIA) planned to remodel the World Trade Center?”

  • Chris

    Rumsfeld, once a liar always a liar. It amazes me that after almost 10 years we still haven’t found any WMDs. Antony called Brutus an “honorable man” and we all know where that went.
    Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld—about as intelligent as Moe, Larry, and Curly.

    • marvin

      Chris
      WMD ,WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION, ARE ALL WAYS TO KILL BILLIONS NOT JUST ONE NUCLEAR, GAS AND GERMS DONE A FAIR JOB,in ww1/ww2,right now we have enuf gas and germs to kill every man woman and child on the planet,

    • http://yahoo.com chas

      ..They are found ALL THE TIME!!..You just don’t HEAR about it from the Blue-shirted Liberal NAZIZ in the lamestream media…

  • Dale

    I have read that WMD’s were found in Iraq in several different news sources and I believe those sources before the liberal media.

  • bob wire

    “said that members of the Bush administration did not intentionally deceive the public when they reported that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction, ”

    I never considered it a lie but merely “premeditated carelessness”

    This administration did what it had the predisposition to do and made up the reason and created the facts as they pandered to special interest concerns as carpet bagging became “vogue” once again.

    These actions has created the largest nightmare in post modern America.

    The worst part is , what gains that have been accomplished could have been done in other less costly ways and shorter time frames.

    Never in recorded history has some much power and resources been misapplied.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      “Never in recorded history has some much power and resources been misapplied.” How about calling it ABUSE which it was

      “I never considered it a lie but merely “premeditated carelessness””

      If its a Lie, call it a LIE!

      Dare I say you almost sound like a politician…sorry…

      • bob wire

        WeLL BL, ~ “LIE” is a harsh word, especially if you are not willing to put forth the effort to expose it, who told it and why.

        and I wasn’t wanting to waste the effort to go there ~ it’s been done already.

        and ~ for the poster below, ~ I’m versed as good as and perhaps better then most in world history.

        Yes , I can see some commonalities in most all history, but I narrow my response for clarity purposes and what’s being addressed.

        My statement of “poor uses” of resources on the part of the US stands and might even expand it to include the Post Modern World. While lost of life has been much smaller then wwII, we are now throwing two and three million dollar missiles at a hand full of camel drives and few mud house and celebrating our tenth years.

    • marvin

      bob wire
      did 1930,s and 1940,s germany ,japan ever cross your mind when you made that remark

  • Donald

    According to Rummy the Dummy, everyone made mistakes but him.

  • Mike

    I don’t understand it.Back in the 1980′s when Iraq went to war with Iran we were on Iraqs’ side.We supplied them with everything they needed,including WMDs’ Chemical and Biological,not sure about radioligical. Now people think of WMD’s as the radiological part but its the other two that they got not the third.That is why when Hussain tried them out on his own people we were not shocked.we were more than likely letting him test them to see how they actually worked. Well these are the weapons of mass destruction that they had because we gave them to them.They never returned them so where did they go to?

  • Tom Anderson

    Shame on you, Bob Livingston, for presenting Rumsfeld as a reputable guvmint leader. Don’t those thousands of dead Iraqi women and children have any impact on you? What about our US soldiers? Those three war criminals have, essentially, turned Iraq from a secular Sunni tyranical state which was an enemy of Iran to an Iran-friendly Shiite tyranical state. It only cost us BLOOD and TREASURE to destroy an enemy of Iran.

    Put me on a firing squad and with equally frivolous accusations of WMDs I will do my duty to my country and despatch Rumsfeld, Cheneyfeld and Bushfeld just like they did to thousands of innocents.

    But first, of course, I will waterboard them to assure that we learn the truth, then on to the firing squad. Torture and murder of innocents is a war crime – let’s do to Rumsfeld et. al. exactly what we did to the torturers and murderers at Nuremburg. I volunteer THREE nooses, they are not worth the lead.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Tom A, If torture is good enuff for Rumsfeld, then its good enuff for Obama and his Merry Band of Thieves!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Angel Wannabe,
        Truer words were never spoken!!!

        • eddie47d

          You sure like to pile on the R’s elephant dung.It will take many years before Obama catches up to the deaths that came before him. You are only defending their Nationalist glory and pious wickedness.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            I forgot! you are right according to the progressive handbook! Afghanistan is Bushes war!! Nobummer hasn’t done a thing to expand the war, to step up the bombing, the use of drones,ect,ect,ect!!!

  • Winnie

    I just don’t understand why these three criminal plus the biggest crook, carl rove, haven’t been arrested for the all the crimes they commented under the name of United States of America justice. Who or what is protecting these, the worst criminals of the world.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Watch “The Money Masters” it explains it all.

  • http://utma.com seymoure

    Rumsfeld, the dummy, actually believes his lies, and wants us to.
    Two thorns in our (Rep.) party……..Rumsfeld, and Cheney—man,
    don’t give us any of those types of fools again, we need strong
    leaders, not self centered genetic junk.

    • http://yahoo.com chas

      ..Beating up on the LAST admin by the Blue-shirted Liberal NAZIZ in the lamestream media ONLY GAVE us Komrad ZERO-BAMA & his EVIL minions; however SOME of the sleeping have been AWAKENED & SOME of the IGNORANT have LEARNED!!( the STUPID can NEVER be taught!!)…The IDIOTIC posters HERE will NEVER admit they were BETTER OFF under ANYONE but DUM-O-CRAPS!!!…

      • eddie47d

        Are you i41′s brother who was dropped on his head?

        • http://yahoo.com chas

          …Obviously UNABLE to REFUTE, you IDIOT!!….What did I say that was UNTRUE??!!…

        • Curtis

          @Eddie… I think that the creator of possibly the greatest oxymoron ever (“Nazi Liberals”?), has actually gotten better now that he stops ending every post with “(offensive words removed).

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Curtis,
            If you had half a brain, which you don’t, never did, never will, you could tell the difference in the posting styles and wording of the posts!!!

          • http://yahoo.com Chas

            …Yet AGAIN!!(…sigh!!…)…NAZI: from GERMAN NATIONALE ZOCIALISTE or “NATIONAL SOCIALIST”….LIBERAL= SOCIALIST, hence LIBERAL NAZI; ‘Blue-shirt” for blue states/ SEIU thugs( more purplish)…AXIOMATIC( PLEASE look it up) and SELF-DEFINING!!!!….DOLT!!….Please learn somrthing PRIOR to POSTING!!…..IDIOT!!!!!………

  • Tom Anderson

    Angel,

    Yes, of course, line them all up – Obama, Geitner, Bernanke, Bush, Rumsfeld, etc. I will start working on the additional nooses if you will waterboard them all.

    And, Obama is simply Bush with big ears.

    Who in this audience knows:

    1) Which administration outlawed guns in cockpits of US Commercial airliners – essentially making all US cockpits “gun free zones”? (hint – it was NOT a democratic admin)

    2) WHEN were guns outlawed in cockpits? How many months BEFORE 9/11?

    3) Why hasn’t Faux News, NPR or any other organization raised this issue?

    Imagine if those cockpit crews on 9/11 had been “packing”, the story would be very different. But Bushfeld, Cheneyfeld and Rumsfeld doomed those crews and passengers to their death at the hands of box-cutter wielding cutthroats. Now, WHY would they do that just 2 months before 9/11???

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Tom, FOX News has a tipline, why haven’t you tipped them about it, if you believe this to be absolutely true, instead of b*tching here about it?

      • marvin

        Angel Wannabe
        trying to argue with a liberal is like getting in a mud hole with a pig and throwing mud the pig won,t care he likes the mud,you just can not fix liberalism like stuped you just state the facts and let them crawl back in to the mud they like to sling

        • Bitter Libertarian

          About the same as the Ne-Cons.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Marvin_ there was a method to my madness, I wanted to what info he had to offer, legit or not!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Marvin_ sorry typo_ I meant what I wanted to see__

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Tom, I would assume the same reason, a muslim moving company moved outta the Twin towers two weeks prior to 9/11!

      • Bitter Libertarian

        I know a man who worked in the North tower for 2 years before 9/11. This man said that the “renovations” that were taking place for months before 9/11 were massive and invasive. Whole floors were “locked out” and it sounded like jack hammers were going day & night. I know this man personally for years and have no doubt to his story. These same “renovations ” were taking place in the south tower by the same company. He said he never did get the company’s name because he didnt care, none of his business, in hind sight he feels different.
        I’ll bet, no, I’ll guarantee you anything you cannot find any trace of that company.
        My Friend made an appointment with his local Representative, and was dismissed as a Conspiracy nut, simply because he felt that was suspucious…NO ONE wants to persue who that company was and who
        owned it.

        Now if you see suspicious activity you are to report it…yea right..

        • Tom Anderson

          Dear Bitter,

          Have you been following the investigations related to SUPER-NANO-THERMITE? I cannot tell yet that they are for real. They say that there are 4 independent and separate sources of 9/11 dust/debris which contain traces of SUPER-NANO-THERMITE. Perhaps they are wrong.

          But MY point is that if there is even the slightest SPECK of SUPER-NANO-THERMITE in any of those samples then there MUST be a conspiracy and ISRAEL is behind it. Only the USA and Israel produce that very high-tech stuff. You CANNOT make it in your garage.

          I find the comment about the massive renovation interesting because they theorize that a very large mass of SUPER-NANO-THERMITE had to have been installed in order for it to be effective.

          Americans just cannot believe that Israel could do such a thing to us. Just listen to those poor US Sailors on the USS Liberty who were wounded and killed by the Israelis. THEY know Israel better than we do – - – oh Yeah, LBJ retracted the fighter planes sent to protect the USS Liberty – - excavate his sorry ass and hang him too! Those Israeli murderers shot our navy guys like ducks in a barrell.

  • Tom Anderson

    Thank you, Angel, you proved my point precisely. Most americans don’t give a damn about Bush disarming our pilots and crews just before 9/11 but allowed Muslims to pack box-cutters onboard. Faux and NPR and you do not care about this. Please do NOT investigate this issue! It is of no importance to you.

    I sense there are some intelligent and inquisitive readers in this audience who have NEVER given this any thought. Hence, my reason for b*tching here. The Fed documents are available on official guvmint websites – easy to access. Look for yourselves.

    As much as I dislike Obama, he has ALLOWED US flight crews to “pack” compared to Bush who made it illegal in June 2001.

    I, personally, trust our US flight crews to “pack”. Most of them are ex-military and are trained and trustworthy. Why would Bush prohibit them from protecting themselves and their passengers?

    Forget it if you think that Faux would touch a story which portrays Bush as anti-2nd amendment. Faux and Bush have an incestuous relationship. I wonder why NPR has not carried this info.

    But, as you can sense, I believe strongly in the 2nd amendment – if Bush did too then 9/11 would NOT have happened – there would have been a bunch of bullet ridden arab corpses on a few US planes that day.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Tom A.
      I take it then that you support ownership of guns???

      • JLC

        Joe H — Do you have a quarrel firearms ownership?

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JLC
          you know dam well I don’t! I own myself! The only guncontrol there should be is hitting what you aim at!!

          • JLC

            Joe H — Agreed!!!

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Tom, wait a minute Tom, I didn’t say Bush knew anything prior to 9/11, there are other forces going on behind the scenes.

      • BigBadJohn

        WASHINGTON — U.S. intelligence agents told President Bush before Sept. 11 that Usama bin Laden’s terror network might hijack American planes, though the president had no specific information of the plot and no way of knowing the planes would be used in suicide attacks.

        “There has been long-standing speculation, shared with the president, about the potential of hijackings in the traditional sense,” White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said Wednesday night. “We had general threats involving Usama bin Laden around the world and including in the United States.”

        He said the administration, acting on the information received in early August, notified the “appropriate agencies” that hijackings were possible. The warning was never made public, he said.

        http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52910,00.html

        • Tom Anderson

          So, BigBadJohn, with those warnings WHY would Bush et. al. PROHIBIT the carrying of firearms by our US flight crews just 2 months before 9/11? Dooming them to have their necks slit by a bunch of clean shaven Saudis?

          It was a DEMOCRATIC administration which initiated, allowed and encouraged our US flight crews to carry firearms onboard US Commericial aircraft. Isn’t THAT strange? And THAT law was in force for MANY decades until Bush et. al. disarmed our pilots in June of 2001. WHY????? And WHY the timing?

          Where are the NRA cowards on THIS issue ???

          All the NRA can do is attack a well-tanned big-eared Kenyan who has ALLOWED our pilots to pack guns in cockpits. Bush signed those 9/11 pilots death warrants.

          • BigBadJohn

            I agree. Bush should have AT LEAST warned of a POSSIBLE hijacking.
            Aloowed them to carry guns and told them to keep the cabin doors locked.

            But then they would not have been able to fulfill the PNAC agenda.

          • Michael J.

            Tom Anderson,
            Name for us the airlines which permitted it’s pilots to fly armed prior to the rescinded ruling in July 2001.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          BBJ, Thats BS!__So what if Bush knew they’re “May be an Attack”__ what did you expect Bush to do, shut down all of Air Traffic, because of a Threat?__What the h*ll for kind of numbscull statement is that?
          Besides it doesn’t prove a damn thing!

          • Tom Anderson

            So, then, I assume that you AGREE with Bush disarming all of our US Commercial flight crews just TWO MONTHS before 9/11??

            And, I also assume that you DISAGREED with JFK when he ENCOURAGED US FLIGHT crews to carrying firearms onboard commercial flights in 1963???

            I believe that the person who disarmed our pilots TWO months before 9/11 (despite a plethora of warnings) should be HANGED!!!

            But, then, I am one of those wierdos who believes stridently in the 2nd amendment – NOT a right but a DUTY ! HANG BUSH, CHENEY and RUMSFELD for disarming our 9/11 pilots and crews.

          • Tom Anderson

            Is the proper response to those warnings the disarming of all of our commercial pilots?

            Are you JUSTIFYING the disarming of all of the 9/11 flight crews by Bush??? I have to hand it to you, you’ve got balls! Let those Saudis have their way with our pilots, crews and passengers?

          • BigBadJohn

            WOW do you know how to read?

            I never suggested shutting down air travel. I said the pilots should have been warned to LOCK the door and allowed to carry guns.

            But of course I used your news source to attack your staunch beliefs in George Bush, that must rattle you to the bones…..

          • Tom Anderson

            Dear BBJ,

            I would have been MORE strident. I would have ORDERED that ALL ex-military US Commercial pilots and co-pilots HAD to carry their firearms onboard – - I would not have simply “allowed” them. If MY policy were in place on 9/11 there would have been a bunch of Saudi corpses on some of our planes.

            Bush DISARMED our pilots 2 months before 9/11! Why?

            Why do these NRA (so-called conservative) guys slither away from Bush’s order to disarm? I love hypocrits!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            This was meant for tom.

  • Tim L.

    Old Rummy himself with a book. Like anyone but a delusional moron would believe anything this worthless piece of S–T has to say!!!

  • Gene

    There is a book called, “Sadaam’s Secrets” written by J. Sadar, one of Sadaam’s Generals. This book claims that there were WMDs in Iraq prior to the war and that they were never all removed from the country until after the war began. Therefore, Bush did not lie. They were there. Sadaam sent the WMDs to Syria according to the book.

  • Tom Anderson

    Gene, of course there were WMDs in Iraq. Rumsfeld arranged for Sadaam to get them and use them against Iran and the Kurds. So what?

    The issue is that this friggin non-US-congress declared “war” has simply removed a mortal enemy of Iraan and installed an Iraan friendly guvmint. Why would the neo-cons hand such a generous free gift to the Mullahs of Iraan? At the expense of US blood and treasure?

    And I agree that to technically be a lie, one must KNOW it is a lie. Bush’s cocaine-and-whiskey-induced-fog prevented him from “knowing” anything. I don’t believe he should be hanged for lying but for simply being excessively stupid. But Rumsfeld and Cheneyfeld did KNOW.

    Gene, are you ready, therefore, to invade Syria and get those old WMDs? Let’s keep chasing them – we have lots of money for more war and our soldiers are always lookin to spill more of their blood for useless wars.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Tom A.
      I’m sure you can prove that Rumsfield supplied those things to saddam???

      • eddie47d

        Actually it was Reagan that got that ball rolling in Iraq but mostly in military hardware. As Bruce stated earlier most chemicals came from Europe.

  • chuckb

    gene

    you shouldn’t disturb the minds of these bush and rumsfeld haters, they haven’t much left to hold on too. after the last two years with a moronic progressive president, they are disarmed and aimlessly looking for anyone to throw rocks at. does anyone remember saddam sending some of his aircraft to iran so we our forces couldn’t capture them, it’s very possible he sent wmds out of the country the same direction.

    • Tom Anderson

      No, ChuckB, I don’t want to throw any rocks at anybody. I simply want a trial and those 3 criminals hanged. We did it to NAZI torturers and murderers at Nuremburg and we can do it to our own in Washington DC.

      Or do YOU agree with outlawing the carrying of guns by our US flight crews – - like Bush and Cheney?

      And if we find Obama guilty by a jury of his peers we should hang him too if we can get the noose over his ears. Or, perhaps, Kenya will claim diplomatic immunity for one of their own and prevent a really good hangin.

    • eddie47d

      Chuck: Saddam hated Iran and looked at them as a threat so why would he send his planes over there for safe keeping? That would be something Iran could have used against him.

  • Tom Anderson

    Do I support ownership of guns?

    I get into this argument with NRA guys all of the time. I tell them that the original framers of the US Constitution didn’t really have “right to bear arms” in mind. You can read the details of their discussions in the Federalist Papers. And they didn’t say ANYTHING about hunting and firearms. They (nearly to a person) believed that it was a DUTY (not so much a right) to own a firearm in order to protect the citizenry and themselves against the potential tyranny of the State. Typically, you could not even vote unless you owned a firearm – why not reinstitute THAT law!

    I consider ownership of firearms a DUTY of every law abiding citizen. The NRA simply whimps-out when they serve as apologist for “gun-rights”. Every NRA guy I have met is a dunderhead and panty-waist – always on the defensive and apologizing for this and that. Not ME!

    I admit, I am a hypocrite. More so because I hate hypocrits. And Bush, Cheney et. al. outlawing the “packing” of firearms by US flight crews just 2 months prior to 9/11 is hypocritical and treasonous. Why aren’t all you “NRA gun-nuts” upset when Bush takes guns out of the hands of our US Pilots? Bush DOOMED all of those poor souls to have their necks slit like turkeys by those box-cutter wielding Saudis. Bush takes guns away from our pilots and the NRA is mum – not a peep from those NRA limp-wristed gun-nuts.

    I want all of our US flight crews to ALWAYS “pack”. I believe it is NOT the right, but DUTY of every lawabiding citizen to own a firearm. I believe that Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld should be hanged from the Congress roof for taking away the guns from our pilots and dooming them to their deaths. Bush and Cheney were complicit in 9/11 for disarming our pilots 2 months before 9/11.

    Don’t you find it interesting that Bush prohibited guns-in-cockpits but Obama allows them? I don’t know what to make of that.

    Did I answer your question, Joe H. ?

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Tom,
      Yes you did and very well. I just wanted to make sure!

  • ONTIME

    If Maverick McCain didn’t have that reputation within his own party more attention would have been paid to his claims but Dear John was known to wander off the reservation and became enamored with the lib side of the aisle thus earning him a title of RINO in addition to his already attached reputation.

    GW’s bigest failing to me was his aversion to defending his policy and not confronting those who made ridiculous accusations in order to undermine the war effort. I still believe many of them were just as treasonus then as they are today and George was far to mild mannered with their insults to our troops and the efforts being made, had GW put a stop to the nonsense and gave his generals more latitude in the settling of this war, it may have got us in a sturdier position to move on to Afghanistan and put the effort of winning in perspective.

  • home boy

    who cares . who what where when how much. when is this country going to fix it’s own back yard ? the US is not GOD .

    • Tom Anderson

      Home Boy, GET WITH THE PROGRAM. The USA is GOD! We ARE the policeman of the world. We DO have infinite resources of money and soldiers’ blood. Our nose belongs in every country’s business. These beliefs are the basis of BOTH the GOP and DEMOS. Our printing presses can run 24 Hours per day, 7 days a week and we can pay the printers double time. Get with THE PROGRAM! We are NOT going to run out of paper or green ink.

      General Smedley Butler ( TWICE winner of the US Congressional Medal of Honor) said it best, “WAR IS A RACKET”.

      Got WMDs? N. Korea & Iraan and Israel and Pakistan – let’s INVADE them ALL!!! And THEY REALLY HAVE WMDs It is simply good for US bidniz.

      And H. Truman also said, “If I had known that the CIA would turn into the US Gestapo I would have never formed it”.

      Vote Ron Paul!

  • jopa

    Bush, Cheyney,and Rumsfeld were bad guys but the actual architect for the Iraqi invasion was Wolfowitz.There should be some room in Gitmo for that bunch of war criminals.

    • Tom Anderson

      A room in Gitmo is the limp-wristed liberal’s solution for criminal activity. Why waste precious tax-payer monies? Have an official trial and then hang them all.

      But, please, give me a chance to water-board Rumsfeld BEFORE you put the noose over his neck. After all, THAT is not torture it is “enhanced interrogation techiques”. I bet he would recant EVERY lie that he has put into his book.

      And Wolfowitz? Let’s turn him over to our NEW Egyptian allies – they will torture the truth out of him.

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    There was a 6 month lead up to the Iraqi War while Colin Powell did a world wide tap dance looking for support. That gave the Saddam plenty of time to move his WMDs to Syria and out the back door by ship to North Korea.

    • eddie47d

      The plot thickens! Now North Korea has those chemicals?

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Yes, quite possible so. There were several frighters that left Iraq, just before our invasion, that went to N. Korea. I doubt they were hauling pistachios.

        • Michael J.

          gunner689,
          Right, the last thing N. Korea needs is more nuts.

  • http://None J.B. Williams

    President George W. Bush listened to the CIA agents appointed by Bill Clinton and he believed what Saddim Hussin himself said, that Iraq had nuclear weapons. The media isn’t going to tell us this, but there was a time laps of 3 weeks between them time Bush decided to go in and find them and the day he actually did it. Giving Saddim Hussin three weeks to bury them, move them, dismantle them, whatever and then have the examiners escorted only to places he would allow the examiners to see. So to call Bush a lier is ludicrus. Obama has not provided proof of his eligibility to serve as President of the U.S.A. to this date. So you tell me who the LIAR is here.

    • Tom Anderson

      Dear J.B.,

      Do you honestly believe that there is ANY difference between Bush and Obama (other than the big ears and nice tan?)

      And if you believe that justification for war is WMD accusations by a Black Uncle Tom (Colin) – - then can we drag out another black General to start a war with nations that we KNOW FOR A FACT have WMDs? Like N. Korea, Israel, Pakistan, India, etc.? Since when is accusations of WMDs a reason for the USA to go to war? Of course Sadaam had WMD – so does Israel – let’s invade!

      I am one of those OLD style guys who believes that we should ONLY initiate war AFTER a Constitutional declaration of war by the US Congress – silly me.

      And if I am not mistaken, the USA has WON every war that was constitutionally DECLARED but has NOT won any war definitively which was not constitutionally declared.

  • JimH

    Last spring I saw an iterview with the FBI agent whq spent alot of time with Sadam,after he was captured on Sixty Minutes. ( no friends of the Bush admin.} He asked Sadam why he didn’t deny having WMD’s when he didn’thave them. He said it was a bluff so that his enemies would think he had them and would still be afraid of him. With Sadam infering he still has some, why wouldn’t people believe other wise? Hans Blix DID find artillary shells used to carry binary nerve gas and Al Samoud2 missiles. These were forbiden by the UN treaty after the first Gulf War. He was in violation of the agreement. The UN was just to impotant to do anything about it. I don’t believe anyone INTENTIONALLY lied.

    • Tom Anderson

      Agreed, Rumsfeld did NOT intentionally lie about Iraq – but, nonetheless, we executed war against a nation which NEVER attacked us.

      The 9/11 planes were filled with Saudi’s which DID attack us but we did NOT execute war against Saudi Arabia – our favorite Dictator.

      Obama BOWED to the Saudi King and Bush held hands with the Saudi King – Bush doesn’t even hold hands with Laura! Not EVEN on Valentine’s Day. And how long has it been since Obama bowed between Michele’s limbs? – - PLEASE! Not even on Valentine’s Day.

      Likewise, I will not intentionally HANG Rumsfeld – but, nonetheless, seeing him swinging, I will be content that justice has been served.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      JimH
      I still believe he had them. I remember the articles that told of 550 metric tons of yellow cake uranium that were removed from Iraq to Canada!
      I also remember P-lousy, Hellary, Teddy Kennedy, Bubba Clintoon and a whole plethora of others stating that saddam had WMDS!!

  • JimH

    Tom, The Secretary of Defense doesn’t the authority to order an invasion of a sovern nation. They can advise the president. He didn’t start the war. Why do you believe justice will be served by hanging Rumsfeld?

  • Tom Anderson

    Good question. You are correct.

    The Sec of Def DID visit Abu Graib and DID write on the chalk board:

    Carte Blanche

    Now I don’t know exactly WHAT that meant, but the soldiers there at the camp say that they knew EXACTLY what it meant.

    Let me throw the question back at you. Why do you think justice would be served by hanging the Japanese who water-boarded and killed (during enhanced interrogation interviews) our servicemen during WW2?

    Likewise, THE KEY reason that Abu Graib happened was because the top authorities encouraged, supported and allowed it. I believe strongly in accountability. They hung the offenses on some poor female General SOB – whereas Gen. Taguba in his official report STRONGLY recommended that the UPPER chain of authority be investigated and prosecuted (if found guilty). The military only got the poor sorry asses on the lower echelon – the big wigs like Rumsfled, Cheney and Bush got away with murder.

    Oh, yes, they ran Gen. Taguba’s butt off and out of the military after he submitted his report – - that’ll show him!!!

    Simple – do you believe in the chain-of-authority? There was NO question that the ABU GRAIB orders came “from on high” – that means Cheney, Rumsfeld et al. I don’t think Bush was involved – Bush should be hanged simply because he is excessively stupid but NOT guilty.

    Prisoners DIED during “enhanced interogation” at Abu Graib – THAT is a war crime – and it all occurred on Rumsfeld’s watch and under his encouragement. I believe in the death penalty – hanging or firing squad is my preferred method. I volunteer for the firing squad – no cost.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Tom,
      If the Japanese had only waterboarded our troops in WW2, I very much doubt that they would have been executed!!

  • JimH

    Tom, Stupidity is a capitol offense? If “enhanced interogation” got information that saved one American life, I fully support it. The people being interogated were NOT nice people. What if there was a building YOU were going to be in was going to be attacked, but because of enhanced interogation the plot was discovered and stopped. Would you still be so adamant about hanging or shooting the people who saved your sorry butt? NO COST?

  • chuckb

    tom you seem to be incensed by the abu ghraib incident did you have relations involved.
    personally i thought our military involved got the shaft, i would have gave them all a medal and a little r&r.

    if you want to really get all worked up, take a look at how the iraqi’s treat their prisoners.

    since all this happening is in the past tense, check out how our guys were treated by the japs in ww2, abu ghraib was a picnic.

    • Tom Anderson

      “our military got the shaft” – absolutely – especially Gen Taguba!

      The VERY best argument for the USA to observe the Geneva Conventions which we signed is because is helps to SAVE our military men when they are captured!

      If you disregard and disobey the Geneva Convention you put our soldiers at greater harm!

      As WW2 was coming to an end, the remaining German forces were FLEEING TOWARDS THE USA FORCES because they knew that we would be treated humanely – - NOT the case with the USSR forces. And many German guards treated our soldiers/prisioners kindly because they knew the day would come when the shoe was on the other foot.

      Eisenhower NEVER would have allowed or encouraged torture by any of his troops – nor would Lincoln or Gen Washington. Eisenhower had US soldiers summarily shot by their own squads for rape or murder. I simply suggest we do the same to Rumsfeld.

      Yes, the Japanese were savagely cruel to our troops – and I congratulate their hangmen as I would congratulate Rummy’s hangman. Let’s give Rummy his trial and hang him!

  • Tom Anderson

    That is a great point! I agree.

    But it is EXACTLY the same argument that the Japanese torturers used to justify the torture and killing of our airman who were captured when they bombed Japan.

    The reasons for the GENEVA CONVENTIONS on war are to deal specifically with these points. And, unfortunately ( according to you) the USA is a signatory to that document. And it states that we violate international law when we torture EVEN if it is to save innocent lives.

    And our USA representatives signed the Geneva Convention KNOWING that it would protect people who were NOT “nice people” – but yet we signed.

    Are you suggesting that we NOT uphold our obligations under the Geneva Convention which we signed?

    The “stupidity” comment was a attempt at humor – I probably would NOT volunteer to be on a firing squad of Bush – but for a reasonable fee …

    Rumsfeld, Bush et. al. did NOT save my sorry butt. 9/11 occurred on THEIR watch !!! Those terrorists ALL were allowed into the USA during their watch !!! They ignored and countermanded the warnings of our best FBI agents. They took the guns away from our pilots !!! They ordered NORAD to “stand-down”. If anything, they were COMPLICIT and I want them hanged – ALL of them.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Tom,
      If you want to look at it the way of your last paragraph, then look to bubba Clintoon!! He was handed Osama bin laden on a silver platter!! Had he taken him, 9/11 might not gotten out of the planning stages!!!

  • CJM

    First of all, we know that Bush was lied to about WMDs; and secondly, we know about McCain’s ‘hair trigger temper’ since enough had been published about it long before he ran for President. So what is new from Rumsfeld? With respect to the WMDs that were believed hidden in Iraq, they probably were in those areas. What else can one surmise when search parties found whole jeeps and tanks buried in the sand? (And wasn’t Sadam found hiding in a hole?) Or the fact that there were items shipped out to Syria, and other places just ahead of the search parties. Furthermore, Bush wasn’t the only person lied to when you consider other world leaders also believed the WMDs were in Iran. As for Guantanamo Bay Prison, it needs to remain and maintain those imprisoned there. Obama simply needs to toss his plan to close the prison, period.

  • JimH

    Tom, The Geneva convention is for uniformed soldiers fighting for a sovern nation. Terrorist organizations or pirates aren’t included. The TERRORISTS that attacked the World trade center and the Pentagon were in the country for 14 months. 911 happened 8.5 months into Bushes term. Whos admin dropped the ball?
    My question was IF the information that saved your sorry butt was obtained by enhanced interogation would you still be that much against it. You might be OK with dying for that principle, but I’ll bet the rest of the people in that building wouldn’t mind being saved.
    Airline pilots were never allowed guns, until after 911, so Bush and Rumsfeld didn’t “take them away”.
    Any other fallacy’s you need straightened out?

  • Tom Anderson

    JimH

    JFK allowed and encouraged US flight crews to “pack” in 1963 in response to hijacking of Israeli assets. US pilots “packed” from 1963 until June 2001. JFK’s order remained until June 2001 when the Bush Admin. made it illegal for flight crews to “pack” – condemning our pilots to have their throats slit by Saudis. – HISTORY !

    Sorry, that is simply history. And, sorry, I detest the DEMOS as much as the GOP – there is NO difference. That they entered under Clinton – does THAT give Bush a pass for disarming our pilots?

    I disagree with you about the applicability of the Geneva Convention – there was also considerable disagreement within Bush’s legal staff – he simply picked the guy’s opinion which agreed with theirs.

    I disagree with you – it is illegal and immoral to KILL or TORTURE a confined prisoner under military custody without, first, due military process. THAT is called murder.

    • JimH

      Tom, I would like to know where you got your info about JFK arming airline pilots, I just can’t find it.
      Just because you disagree with me about the applicability of the Geneva Convention, just makes you wrong. It is for uniformed soldiers of a sovern nation, not terror organizations or pirates.
      Terrorists and pirates are evil people and I don’t care how you get info from them. If it saves inocent peoples lives I’m for it. They don’t need to die for YOUR principles.
      You talk about due military proccess, for dealing with people who aren’t military. Also if the info these people have is time sensitive, we don’t have time for”due proccess” to save the inocent lives.

      • Eric Bischoff

        I love the way the modern nazi still twists the information and language to justify his disgusting behavior.

        What ever happened to: All men are created equal. Thou shat not kill, lie, steal.

        I don’t hear, feel or understand any exceptions here. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link. And since some of you have decided that it may be OK to assassinate or it may be OK to overthrow govts we don’t like or it may be OK to torture people we don’t like or we could pretend they are not soldiers so the Geneva convention does not apply to them. Well it certainly helps that you’ve decided that we are now in a perpetual war on terror. That basically allows you to do what you want. How convenient.

        Ececpt for one little detail.

        Terrorism is merely the eventual and desperate pushback that results from occupation, oppression and exploitation.

        • JimH

          Eric, In a perfect world your ideas would be valid. Not a perfect world so you are way wrong. The Geneva Convention is still ONLY for uniformed soldiers in service to a SOVERN NATION. Terrorists, pirates or thugs DO NOT deserve equal status.
          Calling me and others NAZI’s and saying we try twist information and language to justify disgusting behavior is absurd. The disgusting behavior is coming from terrorists and YOU seem to be the one trying to justify the terrorist behavior.(What’s that make you?) When terrorists are interogated it’s to get info to protect inocent people.( the good people)
          Just because terrorism is an act to desperation, doesn’t mean we should stop trying to protect ourselves from it.

  • John

    The left is quick to condemn the Bush administration, but let’s take an honest look at the song they were singing before they started the mud slinging.

    Subject: OH, DID WE SAY THAT ????

    It is amazing how the facts are unimportant to so many, and how soon they forget! (Read through to the bottom!)

    “One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.” – President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

    “If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.” – President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

    Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.” – Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

    “He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time since 1983.” – Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb 18,1998

    “[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” – Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D – MA), and others Oct. 9,1998

    “Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” – Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

    “Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.” – Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

    “There is no doubt that … Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” – Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

    “We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.” – Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

    “We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” – Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    “Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” – Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    “We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” – Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

    “The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…” – Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

    “I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force– if necessary– to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” – Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

    “There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.”- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

    “He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do” – Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

    “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.” – Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

    “We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.” – Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

    “Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real” – Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

    SO NOW EVERY ONE OF THESE SAME DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED–THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND HE TOOK US TO WAR UNNECESSARILY! WHO’S REALLY LYING?

    • Eric Bischoff

      The fools, the idiots and the liars that’s who’s lying.

      The real left and progressives , and no that does not include Clinton or Obama, knew better and voted against the war. Look it up there aren’t too many who had the guts to vote against the war and against the un-patriot act and against funding the wars.

      They were demonstrating by the millions all over the world.

      Where were you guys?

  • Tom Anderson

    John,

    I agree with all of your quotes! There is no question but that the DEMOS were banging the war drums as much as the GOP. But does ANY OF THAT justify a non-declared war against a nation which NEVER attacked us?

    I have heard many GOPers JUSTIFY the Iraq mess simply because the DEMOS were equally in the wrong – - that ain’t no excuse! 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

    If you want war then why not Rwanda which killed millions compared to Iraq which only killed hundreds of thousands. Or, if WMDs is your excuse for executing war then why not N. Korea or Israel or Iraan? And there is NO question that Israel has WMDs – NO QUESTION!

  • http://Verizon Bud G.

    There is a lot of opinions about whether or not Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and Big Bad John has his and I respect his opinion. I am also a person who worked in this field and believe Saddam was responsible because, to him, they were a thorn is his side and he had no love for the Kurds.
    I found one agency to be a lot more reliable with information than the CIA.

    Five days before the U.S. invaded Iraq, there was a large convoy heading north toward the Syrian border and underground facilities were found after the invasion where it had all the appearance these weapons were being developed there along with scientists in that field of endeaver. How did Syria come up with this capability after only a few years. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don’t think so. Why, the news did not follow up on the convoy is also curious.

  • chuckb

    tom, i don’t have a clue where you are coming from other than the anbt-war attitude. to be so disturbed over a minor incident like abu graib doesn’t make sense. your attitude towards bush and rumsfeld tells me you are a bleeding heart progressive.
    have you ever investigated what happened under the truman administration with germany after ww2? if you want to read about inhumanity towards man take a look at that one. see if you think eisenhower was such a nice person, all the german people were not jew killers. take a look at what the russians did from 1917 on.
    how about our men locked up in vietnam, do you want to shoot and hang those vietnamese generals?
    your ranting and raving about abu ghraib only tells me you are easily
    swayed for political purpose.

    • Tom Anderson

      ChuckB,

      Yes, you are right. I am pretty easily swayed. I served at Travis AFB during the thick of Nam and helped unload THOUSANDS of body bags (actually they were high tech hermetically sealed alum like tubes) which held our mushy and decaying soldiers – I was with TWA which had a contract to move the bodies. LBJ ordered all of planes on the tarmac to avoid photos until late at night. 170 degrees F inside the non-AC planes during the summer in Central Calif. And it “swayed” me.

      But you are right – we have a lot more bodies that can replace those. And the US Gov will NOT run out of body bags. A few grunts in prison over Abu Ghraib – I shouldn’t take it so seriously. And, DAMN! I made really good money there at TRAVIS – mostly time-and-a-half and double-time. GOOD MONEY! Those poor Bastards in the TUBES? To HELL with them and their children and wives. They didn’t care about LBJ and war so why should I? Thank you for enlightening me.

      • chuckb

        tom, you do have a problem, so you unloaded body bags at travis so whats that have to do with abu ghraib? i served in the south pacific during ww2, we handled some of the personnel from cabanatuan in the phillipines. if you had any idea what torture is you wouldn’t mention abu ghraib. it sounds like you are a product of the anti war crowd of the sixties.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          chuckb,
          Abu Graihb was terrible!!! They made them wear panties on their head, put them in cold showers, made them listen to loud music,……..Wait am i describing torture or the local FRAT BOYS?????

  • http://com i41

    Bone Blabbing John, I have personally talk to a Kurd who lived thru the gassing of his family and relaitives. The reason Bush senior was told not to proceed after Sadaam and his thugs and ending the problem was of a UN slub. Another crossbred affermative action dork, A–hole Powell didn’t want to offend the UN. Sadaam got to keep helocopters and when this Kurd was escaping Saddams military only had tanks and wheeled vehcles.This man and others were going up and over going up a mountain, he watched people of all ages being slaughtered by tanks and heavy gun fire. Colin was another crossbred who backed the marxist muslim moron and said Onumnutts was qualified to be Prez. He also said loads of WMD’s went to Bakka Valley by truck trains and aircraft, which if you are really a Intell clown you would have known that by satillight photos. All intell officers don’t run their mouths about the jobs and spout crap. I think you have a little man complex and sitting to potty explains your pusified attitude.

  • Tom Anderson

    We ALL know that Sadaam had WMDs – - he killed lots of Iraanians and Kurds with gas. Was he developing atomic weapons? Who the hell cares??? He was “our” dictator and he didn’t have the throw power to hurdle them to the contintental US.

    If Sadaam had atomic weapons he wanted to use them on the Iraanians or Israelis NOT the USA. So who gives a damn? Both of those other two countries have attacked and killed our soldiers so we should have let Sadaam “have his way with them”.

    Why the hell spend a lot of money and shed a bunch of US blood on an enemy of Iraan? All that we have done is rid Iraan of its worst enemy.

    Who cares if Sadaam had atomic weapons – Israel (and shortly Iraan) has them too. Let’s invade those countries too?

    It is all nonsense.

  • jopa

    Joeh;You claim President Clinton had Bin Laden in his sights and he did but his hands were tied by the Republican controlled House and Senate.They considered this to be a political assassination of sorts not allowed under US law.Not only that but the Bush family and the Bin Laden families were very close friends.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      jopa,
      had you paid attention you would know that osamma bin Laden was offered alive to clinton and he turned him down as he hadn’t ” committed a crime in the US” by Clintoon’s own words!!! don’t hate the messenger, hate the message!!

  • JimH

    jopa, Bin Laden would have been captured, not killed. You even blame Bush for something that happened BEFORE he was elected? Keep trying.

  • Eric Bischoff

    Even though we are broke and more than likely why we are broke, we spend more money on the military than all other nations combined. That gives us the right to be the bully or we like to call it the police of the world.

    Screw the world. We are americans, we can steal any resources we want, we can assassinate anyone anywhere we want. We want your resources we’ll take them. If we don’t like your democratically elected president we’ll fund and organize a coup.

    Hell we’ll even kill him for you. Here’s a partial List of Muslim Leaders Assassinated or Attempted Assassinations: 1950′s Sukarno President of Indonesia, 1957 Gamal Abdul Nasser President of Egypt, 1960 Brigadier General Abdul Karim Kassem Leader of Iraq, 1980-86 Muammar Qaddafi Leader of Libya several plots and attempts upon his life, 1982 Ayatullah Khomeini Leader of Iran, 1983 General Ahmed Dlimi Moroccan army Commander, 1985 Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadllallah Lebanese Shiite Leader(80 people killed in that attempt), 1991 Saddam Hussein, Leader of Iraq.

    America loves and sides with dictators! It’s pretty embarrassing and disgusting how often and how much we are on the wrong side of things! We give them lots of foreign aid, they get rich by taking cuts right off the top and they promise to spend the rest on our military industrial complex. When they stop listening we find a way to get rid of them.

    Let’s look at a rough list of dictators we’ve supported: The Saudi Family, Kuwait’s Monarchs, Panama’s Noriega, Chile’s Pinochet, Argentina’s Videla, Dominican Republic’s Truillo, Indonesia’s Suharto, The Shah of Iran, Egypt’s Mubarak, Saddam Hussein, Cuba’s Batista, Nicaragua’s Somozas, Paraguay’s Stroessner, Bolivia’s Banzer, Angola’s Savimbi, Zaire’s Mobutu, Brazil’s Branco, Uzbekistan’s Kamirov and on and on…..

    We love assassinations. April 4, 1979 – Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Leader of Pakistan, for pursuing making of Nuclear Bomb. August 1988 General Ziaul Haq Military Leader of Pakistan. 1995 Murtaza Bhutto Son of ZUlfiqar Ali Bhutto Anti-American would-be Leader Pakistan. March 25, 1975 King Faisal of Saudi Arabia through his Nephew Saudi Arabia for imposing 1973 Oil Embargo. August 24, 1999 Mullah Mohammad Omar in Kandhar Afghanistan.|1950′s Sukarno, President of Indonesia. 1957 Gamal Abdul Nasser President and 2001 Since early this year more than 40 Palestinian leaders.

    OK I won’t bother with our own leaders and politicians that have been assassinated, I will only say this, it’s interesting how our best most progressive leaders have all been wacked!

    When we are not meddling in foreign politics, which should be illegal in any country, we bomb them.
    China 1945-46, Korea and China 1950-53, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-1961, Guatemala 1960, Congo 1964, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia 1969-70, Guatemala 1967-69, Grenada 1983, Lebanon 1983, 1984 (both Lebanese and Syrian targets), Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s, Nicaragua 1980s, France, 1986, Iran 1987, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991 (Persian Gulf War), Kuwait 1991, Somalia 1993, Bosnia 1994, 1995, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998, Yugoslavia 1999, Yemen 2002, Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis), Iraq 2003-present, Afghanistan 2001-present, Iran, April 2003, Pakistan, 2002-03, Pakistan 2007-present. And let’s not forget Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, May 13, 1985.

    We pretend to be so incensed with Saddam gassing the Kurds but in reality we have a large history of bio-terrorism and WMDs ourselves. Japan Nuclear, Korea Bioterrorism, Vietnam agent orange, and let’s not forget out latest lovely tool which will come back to haunt us Depleted Uranium.

    Darn because of that damn EPA, we are not allowed to pollute our american air, soil or water but hey we figured out that if we move our factories in a third world country we can pollute all we want and if they complain we pay mercenaries and goon squads to kill the demonstrators.

    We don’t want to pay americans a fair living wage so again we move offshore where ever the cheapest labor is. You know the best thing about this is that the military and our embassies will protect us and help us steal resources and insure protection when we abuse the locals.

    There is a pattern here.

    We profess to be Christians but somehow we can’t figure out how to live like good Christians.

    Do you think that maybe that’s why some hate us!

    I’ll never understand some of you who care more about impeaching a man for lying about a blow job than you did about impeaching Bush/Cheney for lying to congress and starting a war that cost thousands of american lives and at least a half million Iraqis. Hell Reagan should have been impeached and charged with treason for trading with the enemy.

    Oh I can just hear the reverbareation from this post. The usual if you don’t like it go live in France. I am not going anywhere yet. What I don’t like are these criminal behaviors which certainly have nothing to do with living within and by our constitution.

    It may be time for our Egypt moment. Enough with the wars already.

    • Denniso

      Most Christians are anything but actual Christians,living as Jesus would…peace,love,harmony,help the poor,turn the other cheek. Most Americans,supposed Christians included,idolize money,possessions and power…nothing more.

  • Eric Bischoff

    Heil Rumsfeld, Mr Blitzkrieg Shock and Awe. Forgive him, he didn’t mean to lie. Hey you don’t know what you don’t know. What a creep. He belongs at Nuremberg like all the other creeps.

  • mark

    If the Iraqi war was so important to the protection of America why did not Bush, Chenney, and Rumsfield have theri children fightin in the front lines. THOSE THREE STOOGGES, should be tried for War Crimes, just like the Nazies. Why was there not a Declaration of War voted on in Congress for us to go to Iraq?

  • jopa

    Jimh; Your captured killed statement doesn’t make any sense.Clinton wanted to take out Bin Laden for the Cole incident and others.The Bush family and Bin laden family were friends long before 911.Could you explain the captured part of your statement?

  • JimH

    jopa, the plan that was aborted was to capture, not kill Bin Laden. If the statement “Bin Laden would have been captured, not killed” doesn’t make sense to you, I don’t know how to make it any clearer to you. The republican congress would not have been consulted for a covert mission like that, so your statement that the Republicans tied Clintons hands is absurd. Clinton and niether of the Bushes were in ofice at that time so they could not have influenced the decision.

  • http://com i41

    jopa, do you think the first Clinton the first runaway rapist and a white vine swinger would have killed or caputured bin lauden the master goat abusing pervert? He was offered the pervert time and all he had to do is send a helo down to pick Osama up. We forget he could not move, he was ground broke when his pants hit the floor. Clinton would screw a oile of rocks if he knew there was a female snake hidden out, but Onumnutts doesn’t care if it is amle or females and will screw anything and since he is a muslim has probably abused a few goats and anything alive, he will screw them just like he is doing to America.

  • chuckb

    141

    do you notice the type off people these progressives admire and vote for, bill clinton a draft dodger to the first degree, committed perjury while under oath, accused of rape by different women and mixed up in countless scandals while president. their next hero, barry soetoro, not only never served his country, does have the distinction of degrading the honor of our country to foreign nations, refuses to reveal his true identity and forced to pay allegiance to the countries flag. they have the nerve to criticize people who have not only served their country, but, have done so honorably.

    • mark

      Excuse me, but Bush was an alcholic, wife beater, war monger and his buddy Cheney had 5 draft deferments. Sounds like a consevative loser to me.

  • jopa

    i41;You sound like a jealous dude that can’t get it up anymore.You have such an envious tone in your mutterings.Now you should just be grateful for having lived and witnessed one of the greatest presidents of all time, Bill Clinton that is.Chuckieb;If you are talking about GW having served his country honorably you are wrong.He joined the reservist squadron at a time when reservists were not called to active duty and tried to learn to fly an obsolete plane that would never be called to active service.He was very seldom on base and was reportedly drunk for most of those years.That was one of the ways the rich guys dodged the draft.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Jopa,
      Prove that whole statement. Put up or shut up!! YOU not any of your buddies either!!!

      • Eric Bischoff

        Oh please the entire H family on this site is in denial and they are too lazy to do their own research or better yet afraid that if they do some honest research they might just prove themselves to be foolish in their beliefs. And when they want to shove their propaganda down our throats, it’s always from the same lame bought and paid for propaganda sources like the Heritage foundation.

        • libertytrain

          Sweetie, if you feel someone on this site is forcing you to be here while shoving propaganda down your throat, I think you ought to just pick yourself up and realize you actually are free to leave at any time. No one is forcing you to be here. Just you.

  • chuckb

    did clinton or barry either one join the reserves? no. clinton was too busy overseas in england and russia degrading and denouncing the country. at the same time dodging the draft. barry couldn’t pass the physical anyway ( the mentality test) and neither one could fly the so called obsolete jet you speak of. so bush make them both look like
    losers.

    clinton amd barry the two best presidents of all time! lmao lol lol lol.
    neither one could hold a candle to carter and even you know bad he was!

  • bob wire

    Well, my daddy can beat yours up! with one hand!

    LOL! funny stuff,

    Listen guys, it’s deeper then that.

    I was watching the Godfather for the thousandth time this weekend

    ~ Micheal had returned to the US after hiding out in Sicily and was telling his American girlfriend he wanted to marry her and he was now in his fathers business, ~ Why?, she says ~ “Well my father is an important man, like a president or senator” , Yea but they don’t kill people Michael, you are being naive, why not get a good job?”

    “and now who is being naive?” says Micheal

    The President of our nation, who ever he may be, has a deadly serious job

  • chuckb

    bob

    sunday afternoon with nothing better to do. just antagonizing you yankees.

    yes, the presidents job is deadly serious, that’s why barry worries me, he doesn’t give any indication he’s that serious and seems to not know what’s going on around him. maybe who ever is pulling his string wants him that way.
    we could do without the speech a day, the speech’s he makes are all canned and the same thing. the cost of flying around the country each day on air force one could feed a lot of unemployed people.

  • http://com i41

    jopa, you drooling simple minded knuckle dragging vine swinger, or you are just one crossbred neatered, past rump ranger the Onumnutts forgot about. Carter was a pus brained idoit. Bill Clinton was a disgrace to the nation with his many forced rapes and having his radical “wife” defending his abhorable behavior. To know of his crruption and illegal dealings, of deaths, drug usage, shipping in plane loads of drugs from foreign countries. Then to have a scumbag like you to think this puke is a great Prez, this peice of crap and his slub merry band of morons should all be in jail still. But your newest model of your affection, the crossbred rumpranger who is a marxist muslim moron who want to be a dictator, everyone now knows why all of you soros socialists drool over the jug eared slub. bob wire what democrat presz are you quoting FDR, JFK ,who we know was always screwing some mobsters ho. Clinton got funds from Chitago, Onumnutts is buried up to his gills in bath house romps and mobster hang out meeting. Every democrap slub gets lots of questionable funds from monistries and ying yang joints from the Middle East and Onumnutts got his education paid for by sheiks and other muslim perverts, when he was in the queer medation period of finding himself.

    • Denniso

      Well,well…Rumsfield defending Cheny/Bush,now isn’t that surprising.
      Those three are either war criminals or inept and negligent leaders who should be shamed into the history books. Bush may not have known anything about much of anything,true,so he was just an incompetent cowboy kid playing w/ his guns, but Cheny was no idiot. He told us there was NO DOUBT that Saddam had WMD…NO DOUBT AT ALL! He also told us we would be greeted as liberators,not conquerors. He told us the oil there would pay for the war…WE’RE paying a total of a trillion $$ for the whole damn thing! Rumsfeldt told us we could use 1/2 the force that the military wanted…that worked out pretty well,didn’t it? On top of it all, they didn’t finish the stupid war in the 6 yrs they had to do it…no, they left it to the next guy in line.

      Those three evil clowns will go down in history as the worst example
      of leadership ever in our country. They should be made to compensate the hundreds of thousands of their victims,at l the least…prison would be best.

  • chuckb

    denniso

    your information is flawed. the congress and most of your liberal hero’s agreed there were wmd’s in iraq and i for one agree, all these wmd’s were shipped top either syria or iran. i disagreed on our forces invading iraq, however, once there my loyalty turned to the troops not criticism of why we were there.
    this is old stuff, we have more important happenings with a president that truly is ignorant of what’s going on and his ineptness could lead us into ww3.

    • Denniso

      I don’t have many ‘liberal heros’,if any. There were no WMD in Iraq long before we invaded,and the inspectors told us that before we invaded. It is not ‘old stuff’ when it resulted in hundreds of thousands of dead and maimed and a trillion $$ wasted. Not even Cheny tries to say that the WMD were moved out to another country…why? Because we had total surveilance over the entire country for decades,and it would have been pretty easy to note trucks hauling WMD out. It didn’t happen.
      It’s also not ‘old stuff’ because it helped set the stage for our budget problems,which Obama is blamed for now. Bush never included the war funding in the budget and never asked Americans to sacrifice anything,like a small tax,for the war. The same thing applies to Afghanistan,not paid for and not finished,so still a drag on the economy,and another trillion $$.
      If you want to call a trillion $$ ‘old stuff’,then why worry about a few hundred billion in spending cuts now?

  • mark

    The hatred and the meanness and the lack of compassion of you conservatives never ceases to amaze me. Why can’t we just be sharing and loving with each other.

    • Denniso

      I think it’s a fact that most ‘conservatives’ are lacking in human compassion,and short on empathy. That’s why they can reduce pretty much everything down to money,rather than real human needs.

      • JimH

        Mark& Denniso, I guess trying to protect inocent people from terrorists is pretty heartless, because you might have to hurt some evil terrorists to do it. What is lacking in human compasion is your ability to not to try to protect inocent people from evil terrorists, just because you hate Rumsfeld. (hate from a lib? say it aint so)

        • Denniso

          Are you repeating the lie that many rightwingers still say? That Iraq was somehow connected to 9/11? There was no connection! The Taliban harbored terrorists who attacked us,not Iraq. I don’t have a major problem w/ us going after the Taliban after 9/11,but Bush didn’t stick w/ it and get us the hell out of there quickly and let it turn into a real war,after the invasion of Iraq. He,Cheny and Rumsfeldt should be held criminally negligent for allowing us to becomed mired down in Afghanistan,w/ thousands of dead Americans and hundreds of billions of $$$!!!

  • JimH

    Denniso, I,m refuting the accusation that I (a consevative) lack compasion or empathy. ( another lib fallacy) Even if there was no 911 conection, there still was a terrorist training camp for Hamas and Hezbola located there. Should we be selective what terrorism we fight or go after all of it? Maybe you uncomasionate, unsympatetic libs think so. Hans Blix also found El Samoud2 misiles and artiary shells for binary nerve gas. That violated the UN resolutions. How should that have been handled, another wrist slap? After your comment about reducing everything down to money, I can understand your comment about the LIFE lost, but your the one talking about the cost of war.
    How many lives were saved by shutting down the training camp? There is no way to know. But the undetermined number of lives WERE saved. If you care.

Bottom
close[X]

Sign Up For Personal Liberty Digest™!

PL Badge

Welcome to PersonalLiberty.com,
America's #1 Source for Libertarian News!

To join our group of freedom-loving individuals and to get alerts as well as late-breaking conservative news from Personal Liberty Digest™...

Privacy PolicyYou can opt out at any time. We protect your information like a mother hen. We will not sell or rent your email address to anyone for any reason.