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Ruby Ridge Tactics Now Modus Operandi?

August 23, 2012 by  

Ruby Ridge Tactics Now Modus Operandi?
SCREENSHOT
The standoff at Ruby Ridge happened 20 years ago.

This week, two decades ago, Americans were watching reports of the horrific escalation of the events that occurred in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, where agents of the Federal government terrorized and killed members of Randy Weaver’s family after he failed to appear in court on a charge of selling to an undercover Federal agent shotguns that were slightly too short.

The standoff began on Aug. 21, 1992 when agents skulking through the woods near Weaver’s secluded residence happened upon his son Sam Weaver and friend Kevin Harris along with a family dog. The agents, alleging the dog had tried to attack them, killed the animal. The Weavers’ 14-year-old son, not realizing who had fired at his dog, fired a shot in response before attempting to flee; he was shot in the back. A gunfight between the agents and Harris ensued, resulting in U.S. Marshal William Degan’s death.

The agents later shot Weaver’s wife, Vicki (who was holding a 10-month-old baby in her arms), in the face as his teenage daughter Sara ran toward her mother and the safety of their home.

After his surrender and trial, both Weaver and Harris were cleared of the most serious charges stemming from the incident.

From Reason in October 1993:

On July 8, 1993, in what The New York Times called “a strong rebuke of the Government’s use of force during an armed siege,” a jury in Boise found Randy Weaver, 45 and almost always described in the media as a “white separatist,” and family friend Kevin Harris, 25, not guilty on six of eight counts, including murder of a U.S. marshal, conspiracy to provoke a confrontation with the government, aiding and abetting murder, and harboring a fugitive.

Weaver was found guilty on two minor counts: failure to appear on an earlier firearms charge and violating conditions of bail on the same count. As of this writing, he is still in custody, with sentencing scheduled for September 28. Although the maximum sentence for the two crimes is 15 years, his sentence is likely to be about a year, roughly the amount of time he has already served. Kevin Harris went free the day of the verdict.

It seems, however, that at least some within the FBI were aware that what they were doing was unlawful and unConstitutional as demonstrated by a memo written by FBI Deputy Assistant Director Danny Coulson while the siege was under way:

OPR 004477

Something to Consider

1. Charge against Weaver is Bull Shit.

2. No one saw Weaver do any shooting.

3. Vicki has no charges against her.

4. Weaver’s defense. He ran down the hill to see what dog was barking at. Some guys in camys shot his dog. Started shooting at him. Killed his son. Harris did the shooting [of Degan]. He [Weaver] is in pretty strong legal position.

The U.S. Marshals considered Weaver a very dangerous man who was affiliated with various “right-wing” hate organizations and who, they were told, had spoken ill of Federal government officials and likely posed a significant threat.

In 1995, however, the Senate Judiciary Committee issued a report that called the threat-profile that the government had compiled about Weaver seriously flawed, noting:

…as marshals investigating the Weaver case learned facts that contradicted information they previously had been provided, they did not adequately integrate their updated knowledge into their overall assessment of who Randy Weaver was or what threat he might pose. If the Marshals made any attempt to assess the credibility of the various people who gave them information about Weaver, they never recorded their assessments. Thus, rather than maintaining the Threat Source Profile as a living document, the marshals added new reports to an ever-expanding file, and their overall assessment never really changed. These problems rendered it difficult for other law enforcement officials to assess the Weaver case accurately without the benefit of first-hand briefings from persons who had continuing involvement with him.

Two decades after the incident at Ruby Ridge, law enforcement officials and the Department of Homeland Security have made it easier than ever before to define American citizens as right-wing extremists. All the while, law enforcement down to the smallest hometown police departments have become militarized to the point of or beyond how the agents at Ruby Ridge were equipped.

The paranoid and ever-expanding security apparatus has, in the time since Ruby Ridge, created information “fusion centers” where they compile threat-profiles about religious people, pro- and anti-abortion activists, environmental activists, Ron Paul supporters, Tea Partiers, Constitutionalists, and just about anyone else who has a political opinion.

The Patriot and other Federal acts have given government the power to spy on any person at any time without warrant. And the President of the United States has made clear that Federal operatives reserve the right to kill American citizens that they deem “enemy combatants” or to indefinitely detain them without trial.

Law enforcement was met with condemnation for tactics of haphazardly profiling as a dangerous radical and carrying out a shoot-first-think-later operation against Weaver and his family; two decades later, however, it seems to many people that government has adopted the dangerous policy as a way to exercise its power over all Americans.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • Harold Olsen

    I’m willing to bet that NO information is being gathered and compiled on Obama supporters. Just those who oppose him and whom he and his Nazi regime deem as enemies. I’m willing to bet that my name is on their list of enemies since I have made it clear just how much I hate that lying, racist, America-hating Kenyan Nazi scumbag that we have occupying the White House.

    • Andy

      Please add my name to the list of people who hate that lying, racist, America-hating Kenyan Nazi scumbag that we have occupying the White House.

      • JC

        Thanks Andy. Can we put you down for some “Major League Infidel” bumper stickers as well? Plenty to go around! :)

      • auhunter

        Andy/Harold, I’m with you guys. As a 26 year military vet, a staunch believer in the Constitution, the bible, and a staunch Conservative, by the DHS I’m a potential terrorist. As an Oath Keeper I’m wondering on who’s list I’m on. Probably all of them, by name, rank, and serial number.

      • actual socialist

        Andy Harry rule of thumb guys the first person to make a nazi comparisen in an argument just lost the argument

  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    WHAT HAPPENED TO The Weaver’s TEN-MONTH-OLD BABY?

    • phideaux

      Not positive because I did not get the article read but I think she grew up into a lovely young lady who has managed to forgive those in the government responsible for her mother’s and brother’s death.

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        THANKS, “phideaux.” EVEN TWENTY YEARS AGO, THE MEDIA WAS VAGUE ABOUT THE BABY. GOOD NEWS.

  • FreedomFighter

    Americans will not stand for wide scale abuse such as Ruby Ridge.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Michael

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but a majority of US citizens already do. In my part of the world (south/central Texas) the law dawgs leave illegals alone, but pile on (3 cop cars to give a speeding ticket?) Caucaseans. Can anyone out there spell Brown Shirts?

      • JC

        There’s a few ways to spell brown shirts these days…DHS is my favorite.

    • TIME

      Dear FF,

      I would love to agree with you my friend, but saddly the “evidence” is really quite the opposite TIME after TIME through out our human history.
      Such events have taken place only to unfold with the same results {TIME after TIME.}

      It will be what it will be, {millions will be taken by the slow
      steady daily programing by the evil monsters amoung us.}

      Afterall – the ones they take are all CRAZY – NUTS, right?
      You know this as thats what the Mass media tells you daily, right?

      Thus the mass’s of sheep will cheer as their HEROS take down the CRAZY people one by one to keep the sheep safe.
      Just like what the Nazi’s did in Germany, just like the followers of Satan did in Russia in 1918.
      Look at whats going on in the middel east daily right now!
      Hundreds of thousands are being killed, for what again?
      POWER, CONTROL & GREED. OMG.

      How bloody sad, but it is what it is. We all just saw this unfold with the Ruab case just last week. Yet all this youg man did was say what millions are now saying daily.
      He is the test unit of the moment – saddly the American people have failed yet again.

      Now if you would please think about the Christ for a moment, how even his followers didn’t even stand up – nor did anyone else really stand up for the Christ. Saddly – its human nature.

      We now face the same fate as the Jews of Europe in the late 1930′s – 1945, this TIME its going to be any American who believes in what their nation was founded on, {rather than what the United Nations and the new World Order want.} How twisted is that?

      It is what it is! My Soul is crying, my heart is broken.
      I know that God’s eyes are filled with tears yet again, The Christ eyes are filled with tears, as so many humans are a mindless sad sack’s of Carbon.
      May the Father and Christ forgive us for what we do.

      Peace and Love

      • Dennis Phelps

        I truly enjoy the wisdom in your comments !

      • auhunter

        I’m remembering some lines from a TV movie last night. A man busts down the door to a man’s apartment walks in and starts beating the hell out of him, drags him out in the hall and continues beating him in front of a dozen people and no one does a thing “regressive resistance” thinking someone else i going to call 911.

    • Liberty4Me

      Dear FF,

      According to PoliceMag.com “Experts who track the use of the tactic say there were 70,000 to 80,000 no-knock raids in 2010, as compared with 2,000 to 3,000 in the mid-1980s.” Look here for a map showing deaths due to this behavior. We accept worse than Ruby Ridge from our paramilitary police thugs.

      • Liberty4Me

        Sorry.. forgot link… http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

      • 45caliber

        What is sad is that for every police officer who died – even if the police were in the wrong and raiding the wrong house without announcing who they were – someone went to jail for murdering the cop. And in most cases, the person was sentenced to execution.

  • i&etechie

    What can an individual such as I, do to stand against the biggest, most powerful organized thugs in my USA? Very little.

    • Enough

      Don’t give in and don’t give up.

      Fight like your life depends on it and it does.

    • http://none Charlie

      i&etechie,,, with a name such as you have, you should be able to solve any problem ,,,but,, bet you haven’t got it figured out yet who the CEG (corrupt evil gubmint) was after when they stumbled across Randy, ever hear of Hayden Lake , Idaho? . Well nearby was a guy named Richard Butler and his church . RB was anti-jew ,pro Hitler and fairly well educated on some of the problems caused by the CEG in America . The CEG was / is establishing it’s local yoekel intelligence team to make a hit on Richard Butler and his rag
      tag some what radical church , RB was not a real per The Book Christian ,but , was an Ok guy in general and so is Randy but neither Randy nor Richard had the understanding of
      King Jesus and His Powerful Law Book that is needed to fight the CEG and it’s hit team
      program . The hit on both is recorded history now , but , the reason for the above is to give some info that ties both cases in with the international bank tards sometimes called
      the international jews, in America they are known as the Federal Reserve Bank, and they
      are the ones that so call “pay” all the bills for these CEG crimes…
      While many people have been Murdered by the CEG , the so called “Public” has been raped labor wise , tax wise and other wise which is not so wise on our part…
      So??? what can a person with chicken sh*t in their blood do to fight the age old war that
      was going on and is still going on , between the Edomites and The Children of Jacob Israel and other “combatants” ?…
      First one MUST DO the blood purification program called out by King Jesus and His Key Man , Peter… The War has already been won by King Jesus ,BUT, to claim your part in
      The Victory over your “defects”and take hold of The Keys to The Kingdom and to The Arms room , in that Arms room is the Weapons of Spiritual Warfare and some for physical
      war , you must understand the first two Orders of King Jesus Christ , found at Matthew 6:33…More later… Mean while …
      Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing … Acts 2:38 for salvation…

  • dan

    I see the FBI celebrated the anniversary of the murders at Ruby Ridge
    with a 300 man raid all over Indiana….allegedly for trafficking drugs and arms and being upity.
    Reminds me of the sign I saw : Don’t steal…the government hates the competition .

  • tim

    Eric holder was there, why don’t you ask him for the truth.LMFAO!!!! That should tell you why the whole thing was bull!

  • http://Firefox John Golt

    There will, I fear be another “Ruby Ridge” before the Nov Election’s. That is IF we even are allowed to have them, and IF the Count is done in America and not by some Acorn outfit.

  • Wathchman

    Christ followers did stand up Peter was packing he cut the ear off the soldier but Christ told him He could have 12 legions of angles destoy everything if He choose to the time will come that Christ will come as a lion and not alamb this time and the bible says they will try to hide under rocks or should we say underground cities but it will not work

    • http://none Charlie

      Wathchman,,, That was not a Soldier that Peter cut , that was one of the Pharisees , but, Peter did not , at that time, understand what The King’s program schedule was ,,,that’s some what the same problem today , most so called Christian today DO NOT know The Will of King Jesus Christ FOR THEIR LIFE is , do you?

  • Robert Smith

    “shotguns that were slightly too short.”

    Is that like being “slightly pregnant?”

    He broke the law.

    Rob

    • http://Yahoo.com Bill

      Yes sir, he did break the law. Kind of like someone driving 45 in a 35 MPH zone. But did the punishment fit the crime?? I don’t tink so.

    • http://realsustainability.wordpress.com realsustainability

      Rob, don’t be so simplistic. Randy was baited by the FBI to infiltrate a white supremist group and they used THAT (shotgun) tactic as a hammer to make sure he did their bidding. When he refused they brought a campaign against him and his family.I wish to God almighty that Eric Holder and his cronies were ONLY guilty of such minor infractions. That would at least imply some manner of restraint. If we were to use the same measures of law enforcement against them as they did the Weavers they should be dragged out in the street and publically executed.Vicki Weaver didn’t get a trial and neither did his son who was shot in the back! I would like you to name the FBI and BATF officials that were held accountable for the murder of a women and her child. The elitists had a friggin’ party!

    • Phillip in TX

      The Feds set him up to turn him into an informant.

      • 45caliber

        Phillip:

        You are right. And the shotgun was marked at 17 3/4″ by the informant as the place to cut. Randy simply didn’t recheck the length. Later he was arrested for cutting it and told to act as an informant or else they would send him to prison. He refused. See my notes on what happened below.

    • Donna

      Yes and that charge stuck….but he lost his loved ones to an out of control government agency!

      • 45caliber

        Donna:

        The charge for cutting the shotgun did not stick. See my comments on this below.

      • Vicki
      • 45caliber

        Vicki:

        There are some differences here I know are wrong. For one thing, the boy was shot multiple times in the back. That’s why the forensics group found bullets from multiple rifles. It seemed to me that the marshalls all wanted to kill someone who was running away and wasn’t a threat to them. The fact that it was a boy didn’t matter to them. When Harris shot Degan, the rest simply ran in fear even though they were hidden from him. They certainly didn’t shoot at Harris. They didn’t want to take a chance on being hit in a shoot out.

    • CZ52

      Something the article left out. The feds were found guilty of entrapment in the gun charge.

    • TIME

      Dear Mr. Smith,

      Again your obsession with “Law’s” Again – there are “NO LAWS” in this nation that the BATF follows.
      There are only “ACT” of what you can choose to follow or not.

      {It quite abundantly clear within the context of the “Original Constitution” there is not a single word about the type of fire arm one owns or sells or trades in.}

      Thus if you so wish to “CON-sent” to such ACTS, that again is your choice.
      Yet this still dose not “CONDONE MURDER.”

      As clearly shown by the verdict outcome even within the {stacked courts} the De Facto Gov still could not win such a fruitless case.

      Yet you wish to cling to this worthless Rhetoric as if pearls of wisdom you spill forth. Now thats sad.

      Peace and Love

      • 45caliber

        TIME:

        Back during the ’20s the government made the FBI the “untouchables”. If one of them broke a law, the feds would ignore it as long it was due to their duty. All other agencies have since decided that they have that same right. That’s why the BATF and other agencies do what they want without concern for the individuals or if they are breaking a law or not.

    • Gordon

      Rob, when do you suppose that the police should start shooting you and your family in the back for speeding? Police should have the right to be judge, jury, and executioner??

    • Bob

      Please read the book “Ambush at Ruby Ridge” by Alan W. Bock. 281 pages, 1995, $22.00, ISBN 1-880741-48-2. It is very thorough; and also contains information about attorney Jerry Spence who represented Randy pro bono.

      Very worthwhile.

    • Bob

      Do you know anything about”Ruby Ridge” Robert Troll Smith? Randy was harrased into cutting the shotguns off for the FBI informant over a long period of time. The whole case against him was bogus according to the Congressional investigation. Did you watch the Congressional investiagtion? Are you paid to be stupid or does it come naturally?

      • phideaux

        Bob you must be new here. Of course RS knows about Ruby Ridge after all he knows all there is to know about any subject he chooses to post about. If you don’t believe it just ask him.

    • 45caliber

      Rob:

      Normally I refuse to answer you but …

      Yes, he cut the shotgun short – where he was told to cut it. And, in the trial, he was NOT convicted of doing it. The ONLY thing he was convicted of was not showing up for the hearing he received a notice about – and that charge was dismissed.

      If you want to discuss guilt, that was his.

    • Liberty4Me

      His son was not breaking the law when bullets were passing through his body. His wife was not breaking the law by holding a baby. The dog wasn’t breaking any laws. The government assasins were the ones breaking the law by violating the rights of the son, wife and daughter.

    • Been There

      I watched this story unfold back in 1992. The FBI wanted Weaver to infiltrate an Aryan Nation group. Weaver refused saying those guys knew him and would kill him. In retaliation, the FBI had an informer pay Weaver to saw off a shotgun 1/4 inch below the legal limit. Then the FBI arested him. Weaver was ordered to appear in Court on the charge. The FBI got the judge to move up the Court date, but they didn’t notify Weaver. Of course, Weaver missed the Court date, and they issued a warrant for his arrest. That’s what gave the FBI the legal excuse to attack him in force and murder his family. The FBI sniper who murdered Vicki was Lon Horiuchi. Last I heard, he was still an FBI hit-man.

      • 45caliber

        You have the right sniper. The state filed murder charges and demanded the feds hand him over. He was shipped out of the state at night to hide him and they refused to turn him over to the state on the grounds that “anything an agent did during his line of duty could not be used against him.” The charge still stands as far as I know.

  • http://realsustainability.wordpress.com realsustainability

    The elitists have a huge lead on the conservative minded folks of this country who just want to be left alone to raise a family from under the ever watchful eyes of the government. Afterall, those folks pay minimal taxes and don’t need or even want the ”services” provided by government. So pursuit of happiness, freedom of speech and desire to be REALLY free are, for some reason, threats to the elites.It’s hard to beleive things could get so far out of perspoective but, looking back at history, it happens all the time. The founders knew that and put the system of checks & balances in place as well as a Constitution as THE guiding document so make certain straying from the course was at least minimized. What we are seeing in recent times is the power brokers being above the law and ignoring that Constitution. I’d like to see a poll of the senators & representatives who have even bothered to read the Constitution. Since THEY have taken the power we the people have very little ability to stop or redirect them. My 10 year old daughter is very unconfortable about the video cameras recording every movement in the halls and classrooms of her school. We live near a very small, rural area and i can’t imaging what the larger governemnt controlled schools must be like. This might be the last year we participate in public indoctrinization. Maintaining faith in our Creator, keeping our mind clear of the propaganda & filth in the media while preparing for the inevitable days of reckoning are some things we CAN do.

    • Phillip in TX

      Two words – Home School.

      • http://realsustainability.wordpress.com realsustainability

        Thanks, Phillip in TX. I hear you and the possibility is very high!

  • http://yahoo bob peters

    vote! Fight!
    know the enemy1

  • Tom Cook

    There may still be some decent law enforcement personnel, but there are very few for their institutionalization of abuse and arrogance and their policy of always lying to cover their abusiveness makes cops of all brands rogues and thugs. They murder innocent citizens like the West Point graduate in front of Costco and they never pay for their savage abuse of citizens for they are covered by criminal police chiefs and district attorneys and judges. They are not our friends. For the most part they are fat stupid bullies. I never weep for them when they get what they deserve.

  • 45caliber

    There is/was a report by Weaver on this as well as reports by others including a lawyer. They should all be on internet somewhere. This is what I heard:

    1. The FBI wanted Weaver (as an ex-Special Forces member) to spy on the anti-government groups in his area. Weaver refused, which angered the FBI.

    2. Weaver didn’t sell short shotguns to an FBI informant. The informant offered to pay Weaver $100 to cut off the barrels of a shotgun to the point where he had marked it. It was 1/4″ too short. Weaver cut it and returned it for the money.

    3. The FBI set up a pickup by the road with its hood up. It had a camper on the back. Weaver and his wife stopped to see if they could help. Once Weaver was looking under the hood, men bailed out the camper to arrest him. His wife was knocked/thrown into the ditch. He was told that he would either spy for them or they would charge him for the shotgun. He refused.

    4. He was sent a notice to report to court in March. However, they had the court hearing in Feb. Since he wasn’t there, they ruled he was guilty and issued orders to arrest him. He did not come in for the March hearing.

    5. The marshalls surrounded his house and spied on him. But due to the dog they couldn’t get close. They decided to kill the dog by luring it away from the house. One marshal (Degan) slipped down close to the house and got the dog’s attention. It chased him back up the ridge. Those at the house thought that the dog was chasing a deer and the boy and Harris grabbed rifles to chase after it, hoping to get the deer.

    6. Degan ran out onto a dirt road. The other marshalls (5 fo them) were hidden above it. The dog ran out into the road and Degan shot it. The boy (10, not 14) reached the edge of the road, saw the dog killed and yelled, “You killed my dog!” He fired a random shot, turned and ran down the road away from Degan. Degan and the other five marshalls shot him multiple times in the back. Later, forensics determined that he was struck by bullets from at least 5 ( I think) rifles.

    7. About the time the boy was shot, Harris reached the road and saw Degan shooting at the boy. He shot Degan. The other five marshalls saw this and ran rather than shooting back. Harris picked up the boy and carried him to the house.

    8. The boy was laid in the wood shed. Harris told the family what had happened and Weaver and his 16 year old daughter ran out to see. A sniper shot Weaver through the stomache. The girl ran back to the house.

    9. Vicki had come to the door, holding the baby and was looking out. Harris was behind her. The sniper (can’t remember his name) SAID he was shooting at Harris but hit Vicki in the head, killing her instantly. She and the baby fell. Harris was hit by the same bullet. Later it came out that the orders the marshalls had received had stated that Vicki was dangerous and they were to take her out if the opportunity offered.

    10. The oldest daugher pulled Weaver back into the house. She and her younger sister (8) were the only two who weren’t injured or dead. The seige began.

    11. Later in court, the feds stated that they had no idea that only the two girls were unharmed and able to put up a defence. However, another marshall then stated that they were able to get a listening device near enough to the house to hear the words of those inside.

    12. The reporter I mentioned caught two marshalls, during the seige, loading a 30 gallon barrel of gasolilne onto a helicopter and demanded to know what they intended to do with it. He was told to leave or they would arrest him. He told them that if it was dumped on the cabin and set afire, he would report it even if he did go to jail. After being cursed, the two marshalls took the barrel back off the helicopter.

    13. One of Weaver’s friends from Special Forces days who was now a lawyer was called in and arranged for the Weavers to surrender.

    14. The trial began by charging Weaver and Harris with a number of crimes including the murder of everyone dead including his wife and son. At the end of the trial, he was found guilty of not showing up at court in March ONLY. All other charges were dismissed for him and Harris. Murder charges were filed againt the sniper in the state (and are still active) but the feds had moved him out of the state. They refuse to return him to the state to face charges.

    15. The Federal Government paid Weaver $5 mill.

    • independent thinker

      That is pretty much how I remember it as well 45.

  • 45caliber

    Incidently, the two girls WERE shooting at anything they saw. That is why the marshalls didn’t try to simply go to the house and arrest Weaver after he was shot.

    • http://realsustainability.wordpress.com realsustainability

      So, the girls were shooting. Big deal! If ANYONE tried to invade my home I’d shoot at them, too. Last time I looked, defending yourself from inside your home was not a crime.The FBI and especially the BATF are hardly accountable to ANYONE. Eric Holder, Janet Reno and Frau Neopolatino and just 3 examples of power hungry elitists that are only mildly inconvenienced by the law and our Constitution. My god what are we allowing to happen? If anyone wants to even try to defend what the US government sanctioned at Ruby Ridge, I’ll take you to hells gate myself!

      • 45caliber

        real:

        No one even challenged the girls for shooting. Even the feds knew that if they did, after they had done everything else, that they would definately have been in trouble! In fact, they didn’t even try to shoot back unless it was high.

      • Been There

        I went to a meeting of a local NRA group a couple of years back. They had an ATF supervisor speaking who had been part of the Ruby Ridge attack force. The way he defended their actions disgusted me so much that I got up and walked out. I wish I had stood up and called him out for the lying, murdering, scumbag that he was.

      • 45caliber

        Been There:

        One thing that caught my attention at Ruby Ridge and at Waco — the people who were involved were all promoted rather than disciplined.

  • got my licence

    The gun barrel when removed from the reciever was cut to the legal length. The FBI measured the barrel after it was threaded into the reciever giving the 1/4 in. difference.

  • chuckb

    wonder what would have happened if the republicans were in power during the weaver incident and waco?. the whole administration would have gone down in flames.

    • 45caliber

      We won’t know, will we?

  • Rod_howabouthat

    45.cal said : Murder charges were filed againt the sniper in the state (and are still active) but the feds had moved him out of the state. They refuse to return him to the state to face charges.
    NOTE: We didn’t have the internet back then like we do now; maybe someone out there can Post a picture of the Shooter Then & Now { With the intent of someone possible dragging him back to the state, to face Murder charges} Maybe even taking-up a citizens Reward for him / Kind of like what the New Black Panther Party are doing by offering a $10,000 reward for Zimmerman / Just My opinion.

    • 45caliber

      Incidentally:

      Snipers, by and large, are expert shots. Supposedly this sniper was shooting at Weaver’s heart and hit him in the stomach from less than 200 yards – a ‘give-me’ shot for a normal sniper. He was also supposed to be shooting at Harris and hit Vicki.

      Question; Was he that bad a shot … or did he hit exactly where he planned to hit?

  • 45caliber

    One other thing about this “Modus Operandi”. It was pointed out to me some years ago but I forgot who did it.

    If you go back and study Federal Enforcement Operandi – if someone is held up for a short while holding off the feds, they tend to burn out the place and kill those inside. They tried at Ruby Ridge. They did at Waco. They did in Philidelphia when some nesters took over an abandoned tenant house. They have at other sites. This seems to be their standard way of dealing with those who don’t readily give up.

  • DantheLibertarian

    Liberty isn’t given, it’s taken. Don’t forget your 1000 year old duty as a jurist to judge both the evidence as well as the law.

  • JeffH

    I remember Ruby Ridge very well…totally woke me up to distrust the power of government…and then there was Waco.

    Gotta love this…ICE agents sue Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano in Dallas federal court. Then there was Waco

    Homeland Security Secretary Janet Naoplitano and Immigration and Customs Enforcement Director John Morton have been sued in Dallas federal court by 10 ICE agents claiming that the Obama administration’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals plan violates federal law and forces ICE employees to break the law.

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  • Thinking About

    With the voter ID laws going in many states there will be more invasion in our lives. Next they will be adding and sharing your information to weapon permits and who knows where this will end. Those pushing for voter ID has not produced widespread voter fraud so why are they pushing for the laws.

  • Pingback: Prison Planet.com Âť Former FBI Agent: Surveillance State Trashing Constitutional Protections « CITIZEN.BLOGGER.1984+ GUNNY.G BLOG.EMAIL

  • Pingback: FlyoverPress.Com… Down With the Presidency by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr. « CITIZEN.BLOGGER.1984+ GUNNY.G BLOG.EMAIL

  • Larry Diesel

    A telling fact about the Ruby Ridge incident is what happened to the FBI officer in charge. He was not repremanded, but was in fact promoted. In other words the Feds think he did a bang-up job. I am not good at remembering names, but I do remember reading that not long after Ruby Ridge he was given the training coordinator job for the FBI. I believe his first name is Larry. Sorry!

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