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Ron Paul Warns Of U.S. Bankruptcy, Tells GOP Not To Make Debt Deal With Dems

July 13, 2011 by  

According to Ron Paul, the U.S. will go bankrupt.Representative Ron Paul (R-Texas) has predicted that the United States will endure a bankruptcy.

“I am very hopeful and positive in the long run, but I think we are going to go through a bankruptcy first,” the Congressman told Fox News. “Everything we have done so far has just spent more and run up the deficit.”

Lawmakers are currently attempting to reach a compromise on the debt ceiling. Republicans have said that if the debt ceiling is to be raised then equal cuts to spending must be made. Democrats have insisted that tax hikes be a part of any plan. Paul has warned that the GOP should be cautious about making a deal with the Democrats.

“In fact, reports are they may be ready to cave in to Barack Obama’s demands for a trillion dollars in tax increases in exchange for mostly phony spending and tax cuts in order to raise the debt ceiling,” the Presidential hopeful said in a statement. “In Washington, if you hear about a so-called deal, you can be sure the taxes will come, but the cuts never will. Republicans cannot take the bait and get fooled again.”

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  • spepper

    Amen to that, Brother Ron– no “deal” indeed– we are on the brink of a default, which we are already entangled and beholden to foreign banking interests, thanks to not only the current administration, but his predecessors– time for that to STOP. The DEMS only want to push us all over the edge by increasing debt (raising that mysterious “ceiling”) which will only work against our ability to find our way out of foreign entanglement, which George Washington himself warned against. NO DEAL.

    • AndyZ

      Just think of all the money we could save by closing all our overseas military bases and bringing our troops home not to mention the 100″s of agencies that we don’t need and are actually operssing us, Instead they are threatining Pensions and Social Security which we all paid into separately and not of our own free will

      • Karolyn

        Amen!

        • hicusdicus

          I second that Amen.

          • OB1

            I third that! Amen!

      • wandamurline

        How about cutting their benefits and healthcare packages and their pay. If anyone’s check should be held, it should be the president’s, representatives’s, senator’s, their aid’s, czars’, and the federal employees housed in Washington. Just that would allow the seniors and military to be paid…they are essential…the government workers are not essential.

        • “JAVOPE”

          Great Idea!

          • OB1

            I agree. Ron Paul is the only congressman I know of that has done that for years! And years! Check it out. He is the only one to vote against pay increases and has chosen to opt out of the retirement benefit packages of the congressional fat cats.

        • Jana

          wandamurline,
          I agree. They all say they are a servant of the people. Then let them be obedient and also take a pay cut like the rest of us.
          Obama gave his staff a raise last year, take that back and cut their salaries by 10% across the board.
          All of the Federal employees should take a 10% paycut. That would insure that they all can keep their jobs.
          Also, stop the lifetime pensions of Congress. This might make them decide that they don’t want to be career politicians. They would need to go out and go to work in the private sector, or put their own money back like the rest of us have to.
          Have you heard Harry Reid lately? He sounds feeble minded and confused when he talks.

          • Karolyn

            Ditto Mitch McConnel.

        • Kate 8

          wandamurline – Great idea. Let them take responsibility for a change.

          Here’s an interesting bit: The 5 wealthiest members of Congress. 4 of them are Democrats, and the only Republican is Muslim (he has always seemed okay, but you never can tell).

          They also went ahead and took their pay increase, while they talk about reducing everyone else’s standard of living.

        • Ken Ambrose

          BANKRUPTCY —- wHAT A WONDERFUL WAY TO NOT SEND BIG CHECKS TO COUNTRYS WHO DON’T LIKE US US ANYWAY… AND, DON’T FORGET THE UN!
          BUT LET US START BY CUTTING FUNDS TO THE EXPENSES COMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.. NO MORE CZARS! — GROUND AIR FORCE ONE — “DEFUND” ANY AND ALL OF OBAMA’S EXPENSES THAT CAN BE FOUND….HIS PARANOIA
          WILL MAKE HIM NUTZ.

        • jmickey

          I strongly agree. When I see or hear that they are going to cut their pay and benifits and many of the unnecessary and expensive government jobs, then and only then will I believe they are serious about reducing the debt.

      • Rich Grise

        I say, Hear, Hear! (“Amen” is just a little too religion-y for a Neodruid like me.)

    • Cathy

      Right…I’ve heard from the pundits so many times that we need these bases to “protect our interests.” What a bunch of baloney! What interests?

    • eyeswideopen

      spepper, sir, you obviously don’t understand debt. When our debt rating is down graded for lack of payment on our debts, our interest payments will sky rocket. Which will mean we will pay trillions, and I mean trillions more in interest on the money we borrowed. Just think of what your own credit card does, when you default on just making a late payment. Your interest rate jumps from 8% to 23% for just one missed payment. Maybe if you keep that in mind, you won’t want to cost the rest of us trillions for not honoring our previous debts! Our Constitution states that we will pay our debts. So all of those Tea Party people out there who are supposedly pro Constitution should be for paying our debts.

      • David Weber

        I think Alinsky was right. We need to collapse the system (since it long ago ceased to be a Constitutional Republic). Let us default since then no one could deny that we are broke. Too bad for the progressive/communist crowd, what rises from the ashes WON’T be a communist utopia. Power does come from a barrel of a gun (HT Mao) and true believers in the United States Constitution have the guns. Socialism = enemy of freedom.

  • Karolyn

    Tell you what. I need my SS check; and now I’m hearing that they might not go out if the ceiling is not raised. Raise taxes on the wealthy like Warren Buffett believes should be done. There’s a real patriot !

    • Warrior

      Obviously you haven’t been paying attention. Dingy harry insists that SS is completely solvent, which means that it is flush with cash. So, knowing that harry always tells the truth you have nothing to be concerned about.

      • eddie47d

        SS is solvent up to the year 2037 although a major crises does loom ahead. Which means the problem has to be solved real soon.

        • independant thinker

          Ah yes but SS is not a part of the general budget It is a trust fund that is seperate. Any problems with it (and I agree there are potential problems if not actual) should be addressed as seperate stand alone legislation not part of the general budget. Obama’s veiled threat to not send out the SS checks is the most reprehensable thing he has done in his 2.5 years in office.

          • Cathy

            BO is lying just to scare seniors and get his way.

          • Kate 8

            According to my Congressman, SS cannot be withheld. It is mandated funding, and goes out even if DC shuts down.

          • eyeswideopen

            independant, didn’t he say that he can’t guarrantee what will be paid. Big difference. See how the radicals change his statements?

          • independant thinker

            Like I said eyes it is a veiled threat. In other words he implied it would/might happen but did not out-right say it was going to happen.

      • Jana

        Yes, it was so funny. The other day some reporter was asking Obama if he could say that the SS checks would go out, and he said he couldn’t. Of course he couldn’t, he actually doesn’t know that much. That would be tantamount to asking a 4 yr. old to talk about his parents finances.

        • JeffH

          :)

    • t

      C’mon. threatening to withhold SS is nothing more than a political ploy. Anyone making such a threat should be ashamed that he/she would resort to suct blatant scare tactics to get his/her own way. Anyone who believes such a threat is simply being played.

      • Vagabond

        t you are absolutely right. it’s the same old democrat crappola. they have made an art of scareing the people on social security to get them to vot for the slimeball democrats. and it works so well they will continue doing it. they dont try to scare their main base of deadbeats and bumms by threatening to cut out wellfare, instead they promise more wellfare to the dopeheads and other wastrels who have for the most part never contributed one dime to anything except their habit.

        • TexasPatriot

          Well said. The sad thing is we have just about reached the tipping point, where the ‘takers’ can outvote the ‘makers’ and get as much ‘free goodies’ as they want. When that gets underway, we will be on a freefall into their Communist wet dream.

      • mark

        Right, it is shamelessly raising false fears among the American people. Like the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.

      • texastwin827

        Obama would be wise not to threaten social security…we old people tend to vote more frequently than the younger generations do and we don’t necessarily vote Democratic, to begin with. Most of us realize that Soc. Sec would be totally solvent, if our Congress had not taken the funds, making them part of the General Fund, leaving Soc Sec with nothing but worthless IOU’s.

        • Texas Mad

          I agree, Social Security was used, for years, as slush fund, and money that was needed, or thought to be needed was “borrowed” from this fund to solve the problem.

          PAY IT BACK WITH INTEREST and we will be just fine

          • Bob from Calif.

            I agree, its about time they made good on the IOU’s in the SS fund. All congressional and presidential perks should be taken away until it is all paid back. It would have been just fine if they would not have stolen all of the money from SS. Its not exactly an entitlement either. It has been paid into by working people for most of their lives. It belongs to the people and the government needs to keep their greedy little fingers out of our pie.

          • independant thinker

            “Its not exactly an entitlement either. It has been paid into by working people for most of their lives.”

            I would say SS and to an extend Medicare are the only entitlements. We have paid into them and are ENTITLED to get our money back with compound interest.

          • Cathy

            Maybe they should sell all those freakin’ limousines this administration has purchased. I suppose they think they are kings and queens.

            Have YOU ever rode in a limo? (Me neither…)

        • Bud Tugly

          We also have to be diligent about extremist nut jobs who want to privatize Social Security. That would put us in the hands of the same people, bankers and brokers, who contributed to the mess in the first place.

      • independant thinker

        “Anyone making such a threat should be ashamed that he/she would resort to suct blatant scare tactics to get his/her own way.

        Yeah, but do you think obama feels any shame over it I don’t.

    • Les

      I say take every damned dime every progressive have. They are all closet socialists and believe in “From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs” or so they say. Do you believe for one minute a multimillionaire is going to raise their own taxes? Pay their fair share? What the hell is fair share. Before the bankers robbed us blind with the creation of the Federal Reserve and the IRS, there was no fair share.

      We all paid dearly for “Social Security” and Medicaid. 15% of your income every year goes to the SS, 7.5 from you and 7.5 from your employer. Any money your employer has to pay on your account comes out of what they would have paid you.

      The whole damned country is poor at math. They can’t add 2 and 2 and get 3.8 trillion dollars spent every damned year by the Federal Government.

      • NamNavyVet

        I just looked at my SS and medicare earings record. My employers and I have paid over $260,000 over the last 40 years. I will never see any of it. If I did it would be without any interest at all. That kind of money invested over 40 years would be a tidy sum. SS is the number one Federal Ponzi scheme. The joke is on us. Remember when LBJ moved the SS money into the General tax fund? That was 1964 just after they killed JFK. That, my friends, was the begining of the end of the United States of America.

        • “JAVOPE”

          Unfortunately you are totally correct.

        • eddie47d

          That is a fact about LBJ but the biggest ponzi schemes are from the private sector and unsuspecting citizens. These citizens (you and me) invest or purchase products to supplement their future. Everyday you open the paper and another financial “genius” is indicted for pilfering money from people. Those waters aren’t safe either. You may be able to make more money but the losses can bite harder.

          • Jana

            Another ponzi scheme is UNIONS.

          • eddie47d

            Hedge Fund managers.

      • mark

        Actually Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and numerous other multi-millionaires have called for higher tax rates on those with very high incomes to help the national fiscal crisis. A large group of wealthy Americans who call themselves “Patriotic Millionaires have written an open letter to calling for their tax rates to be raised. Here is their letter which you can easily get on-line. But of course the official Republican Party position is that not one single cent of additional tax should be raised on anyone in the upper income brackets, even those who have over a million dollars in income:

        DEAR MR. PRESIDENT, HON. HARRY REID, AND HON. JOHN BOEHNER,

        We are writing to urge you to put our country ahead of politics. For the fiscal health of our nation and the well-being of our fellow citizens, we ask that you increase taxes on incomes over $1,000,000. We make this request as loyal citizens who now or in the past earned an income of $1,000,000 per year or more.

        Our country faces a choice – we can pay our debts and build for the future, or we can shirk our financial responsibilities and cripple our nation’s potential. Our country has been good to us. It provided a foundation through which we could succeed. Now, we want to do our part to keep that foundation strong so that others can succeed as we have.

        Please do the right thing for our country. Raise our taxes.

        Thank you,

        • Karolyn

          Bravo for them! Do the Republicans actually read some thing like this? It seems as though they are blind.

          • Bud Tugly

            Some are so intractably entrenched in the “purity” of their ideology that pragmatic solutions escape them. They would rather see the country and average citizens suffer than rationally compromise on any issue they disagree with.. sounds a lot like the Taliban.

          • independant thinker

            The uber rich are just talking to make themselves look good. If they truely believed what they say all they have to do is skip taking a few deductions on their income tax and as a result pay more taxes.

          • Jana

            I noticed this was unsigned. Now if it had actual names on it, I might believe it.

        • mrpostman

          Oh, horse hockey! First of all, there are so many loop holes that a tax increase on the wealthy will hardly be noticed. We need a fair tax law. No taxes will be paid on one house and one car. There should be no IRS or federal income tax. Everything else will be taxed so if you don’t spend money you won’t be taxed. All of your check will be yours to save or to spend, however, if you spend it you will be taxed on what you spend. If you don’t make much money then don’t spend much and you won’t be taxed and you should be able to save. If you are wealthy, spend all you want but you will pay the piper. Fair tax.

        • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

          Let’s see if any of those folks pay a penny more than they have to on their own. The real definition of principle and also charity is pretty much the same — what you do when no one is looking.

        • Warrior

          You really need to think about this fact. If all these so called “rich” people are calling for their own taxes to be increased, including oblama, why don’t they just open their checkbooks and start writing checks to the guvmint? Ahh, but they don’t, do they? In fact, buffet pays himself $100k a year so he can avoid paying the full 35% rate. They all take advantage of their deductions, loopholes, and all the gimmicks to minimize their tax liabilities.

          You people that buy into this class warfare BS need to get yourselves re-educated.

          • john

            all u gripers about making the wealthy pay there fair share should realise one thing if they did they would recieve a tax rebate big time. right now 75 percent of all taxes are paid by less than 20 percent of the population. if u really want to save america scrap welfare and if they cant get a job give them on even if its cleaning dog kennels. if you dont work and u do not have a real disability u should not eat plain and simple . u have to give your deadbeats a kick in the a$$ and take a tax increase yourself if u really want it to be fair. take a look at how many american millionars who worked hard are leaving the country because of the unfair taxs they have to pay . i sure wouldnt want to work for someone else so he could sit home smoke crack and beat his kid.

    • Elevenarrows

      Unfortunately, if you have depended on a check from the gov’t keeping you alive in your golden years, you are sadly misinformed. Many have seen the writing on the walls for decades. The program had a death sentence from the “git go” as we say in the South. Prudent seniors will look at Social Security as gov’t thievery and make plans to provide for themselves. This may come as a shock to some, but dear Uncle Sam really doesn’t mind throwing Grandma under the bus if he can still garner enough votes from other groups such as Muslims, illegals (yes, they vote), etc.

      • wandamurline

        They won’t be voting in Texas anymore…we just passed a law that you have to have a photo identification to vote, which means all the dead people will be discriminated against in 2012 by not allowing them to vote. We also passed a sanctuary cities bill that means a city that is offering sanctuary to illegals will get their state funds withhled…we passed a law that requires your citizenship to get your driver’s license or renewal, and are working on Everify to hold employers accountable for hiring illegals. If we make it hard on the illegals, they will leave…the next thing the people of Texas want is to stop the Medicaid, free lunches at school, and food stamps for illegals…they should never have gotten them in the first place…thank you Jimmy (peanut farmer brain dead turd) for that one …oh year, thank him for giving the Panama Canal back to Panama when thousands of Americans died building it…and doing it without asking the American people their opinion. While we are thanking people, let’s thank Pres. LB Johnson who, in 1964, took Social Security out of its interest bearing account and tossed it into the cesspool of general funds of the government, and issued us worthless bonds…Social Security now holds 1.5 trillion dollars of government bonds IOU…if Madoff had done this he would have been hanged instead of sent to jail. The Demorats have been lying to people for decades…don’t get me wrong, a lot of Republicans have been doing the same, just not with the intensity of the Demorats.

        • texastwin827

          The food stamps & Medicaid will never stop going to illegal families, completely. The illegals, themselves, are NOT eligible…but their anchor babies are because they are US citizens. As for medical care, the illegals simply walk into an ER in any hospital and use it as a clinic, which of course drives up the cost of citizen’s care, not to mention delays in treatment, because the illegals have no intention of paying for the care they receive, including the prenatal care they receive, to have their anchor babies (ask Parkland Hospital in Dallas, if you doubt that!)

          • eddie47d

            Ok texaswin if a pregnant women walks into a hospital whether legal or illegal what should be done for them. Throw the women into the street, abort the fetus,allow delivery and then complain how terrible it is of them to have a child? Even Mexican laborers get pregnant so should the person hiring hand out condoms and birth control to keep their employees baby free. Should that employer who will obviously know the women is pregnant have an obligation to drive her to the border and dump her on the Mexican side. Maybe put her on a plane to Tijuana. What would you do to a pregnant women? Both legal and illegal who can’t afford the cost of a hospital delivery.

          • texastwin827

            Oh Eddie…you don’t want to go there! First, secure our borders so they can’t come in would be a nice start.

            Now, since you seem to think I’m so “harsh”…please, pray tell me, why an illegal has more rights to a safe delivery than a citizen who simply has no insurance? Even if the citizen has no insurance, if their income doesn’t meet certain standards, they are ineligible for “free” care yet the illegal mother walks on her hospital bill and it is the taxpayer who ends up paying it through higher medical costs.

            To give you an idea of what I’m talking about…last year, 1 1/2 mos before my Medicare kicked in, I had a heart attack & required ONE stent…not major by-pass surgery.

            My widow’s pension from my husband is $1287 before Medicare is deducted. I did NOT qualify, income wise, for any assistance, although the hospital did write off 2/3 because I had no insurance…leaving me with a hospital bill of over $21K (it was over $60K before the write off), then we add the cardiologist’s bill of $8,700 and the ambulance of $1,200 and more general doctor’s & labs several of which were also $1,200 plus dollars, so in the end, I now owe all these folks roughly close to $35 to 40K, of which I will not live long enough to ever pay off.

            If this happened to an illegal, he would get the same treatment even though there would be no hope, regardless of how much he made under the table, of them ever seeing a dime in repayment and since he is illegal, his credit rating won’t be affected nor will he be sued for the balance…but I will.

            Then you add the cost of food stamps, that the new anchor baby is now eligible for as well as it’s siblings that have been born about 1 every year, the cost to educate them and their illegal siblings and last but not least, the cost of supporting those incarcerated in our prisons.

            IF you don’t live in a border state, you don’t even, remotely, have a clue at what they cost us! And if you think they haven’t been voting, you live in a dream world, thus our new law, here in Texas, of needing to prove you are a citizen before you can vote.

          • texastwin827

            and Eddie, not only did my husband work all his life, but so did I.

          • JeffH

            texastwin827, stick around, you’ll see firsthand the amount of irrational diatribe pouring out of those just like ediie.

          • Kate 8

            If we took away the enticements for illegals to cross the border to give birth, they’d quit doing it.

            Besides, women have been giving birth long before anyone thought of doctors and hospitals. Millions of women give birth every day at home, many with no assistance at all. It is, after all, a natural process.

            We need to take away rights to citizenship just because they step across our border, and also let them know that they will not get any help here, either. I’ll bet that would solve the problem.

          • eddie47d

            Sorry for your health problems texas. 98% of you dance around the questions I ask and that includes your shadow Jeff. He’s a professional shadow boxer!Now please go back and answer my question and it has nothing to do with closing borders.

          • JeffH

            eddie, I’ll remind you once again…N-I-N-E to N-A-D-A! 9 to zippo!
            You never answer anybody with anything more than a 6th grade mentality retort and you expect someone to answer your progressive and childish questions. NO ONE BELIEVES YOU! Get it? No one!

          • eddie47d

            Listen to the shadow boxing phony poll taker Jeff. Talk bad Azz all you want if you think your puffed up baloney will get you the women.Keep rambling like a big shot. Hey ! What mask are you wearing today?

          • David Weber

            @Eddie47d :
            I guess you want the taxpayers to provide free child delivery service, car, house, food, tv etc. to illegal invaders who are pregnant. How communist of you. I would rather just shoot her, box her up, send her back to where ever she came from and bill her country’s government for how much it cost. Maybe as a compromise, I would be willing to confiscate your home/car/money/cat (along with all of your communist buddies stuff too) to pay for her care. But we all know you don’t want to pay for it, you just want to steal the taxpayer’s money (to pay for it) so you can feel good about yourself.

        • mark

          Less than 500 U.S. citizens died building the Panama Canal. While nearly 6000 workers did die during the American construction period (1904-1914) over 85% of the dead were West Indian laborers imported to do all the dangerous, physical work for very low wages. U.S. citizens made up the majority of the foremen, supervisors, steam shovel, and railroad operators, hence their much lower work casualty rates. The deaths cited above also include victims of yellow fever and malaria. U.S. citizens suffered about 13% of the disease death rate of West Indians who lived in more spartan, squalid, and for a while, unscreened quarters. You can get all these stats from Mauer and Yu’s The Big Ditch (Princeton University Press, 2010)

        • Barbara

          I received a letter yesterday that claimed it was $2.58 Trillion that the government has stolen from the Social Secutiry Trust Fund. I don’t know if this is right but I wouldn’t doubt it.

        • eyeswideopen

          wandamurline, biggest lie of the past hundred years: WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. But it only cost us trillions in unpaid wars. Don’t even mention it to anyone, it is really a small thing. Let’s not worry about our soliders or our pocketbooks as a personal attack against another country can be explained away by those beloved repubs of yours.

    • http://yahoo.com Gale

      I meed my disability check also but I don’t think speading his or any others is the way. I don’t want what they have earned. A flat tax is the only way to make it fair with no subsities and the only writeoff you have is the home you occupy and the tithes you give to your church. Period. Far to many loopholes.

    • Sue B

      Don’t worry about not getting your SS check….Obama cannot stop that. And he and his fellow Dems have used that ploy in other situations where it looks like he isn’t going to get his way. Lately I have seens pics of his pouty face – OMG!

    • Violet

      I live in the Chicago area where our so called president comes from via Pakistan and Kenya and all he is doing is typical Chicago politics. Bully tactics have worked for him before and he is expecting them to work now and with folks such as yourself it looks like it will. I am on Social Security also so it will affect me too. Funny how some people think we shouldn’t be getting it anyway. Of course if you told them to pay into a retirement fund for 40 or more years and then said sorry but we need the money for other things and besides we already spent it you can bet there would be a great cry of unfairness through the land.

      • mark

        Right bully tactics, like Bush and Cheney in Iraq. They were both from Chicago, too.

        • ValDM

          mark,
          Is it even possible for your poor feeble brain to stay on topic???? Get with the program or get gone.

        • “JAVOPE”

          Man! Which wall are you coming off of?

        • texastwin827

          Bush and Cheney …… They were both from Chicago, too.

          Mark, if you’re going to try to appear smart & knowledgeable at least get you facts right, before making the attempt!

          Bush was born in CT and never lived in Illinois, let alone Chicago. He moved to Texas, with his family. Cheney was born in Nebraska and moved to Wyoming as a teenager. He also never lived in IL, let alone Chicago.

      • texastwin827

        LOL @ Violet…so true! Somehow the younger generations (who are also contributing to the same mandatory Soc Sec) seem to think it is an “entitlement program” even though we all contributed to it (albeit it as a non interest bearing retirement fund) for 40 or more years.

        Most, like my youngest daughter (28) think we planned unwisely… that is until I set her straight. LOL They are so young that they don’t realize that all the retirement (& educational) options that they have, today, didn’t exist until after most of us had already been “worker bees” for at least 20 yrs! If you were lucky, you worked for a big company that had a pension plan, otherwise, you depended on Soc Sec being there, when you retired. There were no 401K, Keogh or any other retirement programs. As for college educations…you either had the money to go, your parents could afford to take out a personal loan or you didn’t get to go. There were no educational loans nor Pell grants, if you were “low income” to provide college for you.

        The only reason the politicians call it an “entitlement” program, now, is to cover their theft of the funds.

    • wandamurline

      I get a social security check also, but I am smart enough to realize that if something does not change and soon…there will be NOTHING for anyone. I rely on my ss check also, but if they stop the payment in August, I will survive somehow, but I definitely will hold the Democrats responsible, because Geithner and the President decides “who” gets paid…so if we pay the interest on our debt, then the next ones paid should be our soldiers and then our seniors and disabled…whatever is left then can be divvided up among the federal government workers including congress.

      • “JAVOPE”

        Works for me!

      • Christin

        wandamurline,

        Good point.

        Let’s say we stop paying Foreign countries (which is a Redistribution of Wealth scheme), esp those that hate us in the Middle East, millions and billions of dollars EACH YEAR and take care of our own for once.

        Let’s say we stop funding Left liberal leaning organizations like NPR, ACORN, FDA, EPA, IRS, obamacaretax, FCC, and Michelle O’s many WH Assistants, and the the hundreds of other groups that stand at the feed trough… and take care of our own individual citizens…

        There are so many places WE could cut the budget and gain resolvency again… get on it wimpy Congress

      • independant thinker

        Doesn’t work for me. Congress should NOT get one cent until they truely balance the budget.

        • Christin

          independent thinker,

          Maybe if we suspended THEIR (congresses) pay… just maybe they would QUICKLY balance the Budget!

    • Christin

      Karolyn,

      That is a is a ‘Democrat scare tactic’ to get everyone on board with raising the DEBT ceiling to Spend More and Increase our American Debt.

    • OB1

      Not.

    • joel

      Karolyn, thats what all liberals say, when in actually they mean raise tax’s on someone else. If the wizard wants to pay more tax’s tell him to cut the government a check. I’m sure they will spend it wisely. Karolyn, if we give them more money they will simply spend more than We give them, nothing changes. It is time to take away their credit card !!

    • Rich Grise

      When I was applying for SS, the lady at the SS office said, “Oh, it’s your own money, after all!”

      And even Obomney, the National Ditz, and the Wicked Witch of the North keep saying “THERE WILL BE NO CUTS TO SOCIAL SECURITY OR MEDICARE” for current beneficiaries.

      Cutting off foreign aid and stopping using US Taxpayer dollars to pay for other countries’ “defense” would be a really good start!

  • robert

    read the ten planks of the communist manifesto
    and YOU WILL UNDERSTAND the zionist federal reserve banking system

    RUN BY THE ZIONIST JEWS which control america FROM THE INSIDE out

    are destroying the nation ON PURPOSE
    when will you wake up
    when will you understand THEY HAVE A MARTIAL LAW plan
    in place and want to lock up THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF people
    and destroy homes lives property and family
    faith and FREEDOM

    • David

      It’s going to be your welfare bums and the illegal aliens who will riot and burn our cities down in the near future, maybe this summer or fall.

      • Les

        And also the police will join in on the rioting and looting just like they did during Katrina. And the simpletons in the military will go house to house collecting guns to protect you from yourself.

      • Vagabond

        David that’s all the more reason for stocking up on ammo, the sob’s start rioting and tearing up my property or that of my friends and family I promise you they wont do it any more. I look at it this way. I could have died in Korea or nam. I didn’t. so what difference does it make if I die defending my and my family and friends property from scumbags right here at home,

        • don

          Beautifully Said!

      • eddie47d

        David; There is a difference in Being Prepared and deliberately advocating for a crises. Making claims of panic and rioting when it is not there is like being an arsonist hoping the flames will spread.

        • TexasPatriot

          lET THEM SPREAD. THE COMMUNIST CORRUPTION MUST BE PURGED NOW.

      • texastwin827

        You may have noticed…Obama didn’t threaten to cut welfare program’s checks.

        • OB1

          He knows o his constituents are. The big corporations, Hollywood, and the welfare dependent who are ignorant. Check out who his big contributors are! Goldman Sachs, BP, Hollywood, George Soros, and who knows how many others in his online collections! They can donate small amounts at a time under different aliases! He already has raised 86 million on our dime! Air Force One, time on the road at fund raisers, etc.! He is NOT who he portrays himself as!

          • Bud Tugly

            few politicians are

    • Al Sieber

      You got that right robert.

  • http://www.personalliberty lisa

    MOST RIDUCULOUS- WHEN YOU DO NOT RAISE THE TAXES ON THE RICH AND YOU WANT THE THE REST OF AMERICA TO BE POVERTY STRICKEN- WHICH IS WHAT IS GOING ON NOW.ISN’T IS TIME TO BE HONEST WITH THE AMERICA PEOPLE- WARREN BUFFET CERTAINLY IS!

    • Warrior

      Did you actually see warren pull out his check book and write timmy a check? Amazing!

      • Karolyn

        He may not have; however, at least he’s honest and generous, giving way mega-bucks and contacting other billionaires about giving more. He absolutely does believe that the rich should pay more in proportion to what they make. The Republicans sure don’t want to anger the rich!

        • Dan az

          Karolyn
          They already pay the most taxes of any now and the fact that it will be just added to the products means that we will just get the increase not them.This is just a ploy to increase our taxes,for what to spend more because they just cant get enough of our money to line their pockets.No I think if they really needed the money that bad then they should start paying into it like the rest of us.The trillion dollars that they will be printing should come from the closing of the bases around the world.Problem solved!Reduce the size of the gubmnt by 2.1 million employees to start with and that would be only the jobs that are non essential.That would add to the check book another half trillion.This is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors to steal the remaining dollars to redistribute to their pockets through theft.

          • eddie47d

            Reduce the size of Government is extremely important although so many segments of society are clamouring for increases.(military and social services). Some departments may be reduced but others increased so nothing will change. Corporations should pay the taxes owed but their tax base should be reduced. When it comes to these extraordinary high CEO salaries I say have little mercy on them.I seldom see anywhere that they deserve what they are receiving and it all looks like a scam.

          • Dan az

            Eddie
            I agree that none of them deserve the outrageous money and bonuses that they get when they deliberitly break a company and get bailed out by our tax dollars.But even if you took all the money they make it wouldn’t even make a down payment on the debt interest.When you have the entitlements sucking down every last drop and trillions that are given to other countries, and have to borrow money just to pay the bills don’t you think that printing more funny money, that will only add to the problem, is the problem?SS is not an entitlement its our money that they have been stealing and have not payed back it was just a slush fund to steal from.Disability checks for services rendered by vets that gave their all, was a guarantee that was promised by forcing us to give up our lives to help out another country with their civil war.Not by choice by demand, and if you didn’t obey then its the slammer for you.Adding taxes to big business is just another way to tax us further through passing it on to the consumer to the products that we buy.So if you see it that way then you would see that we are just getting double taxed.The rich pay more than we do and the poor welfare group pay nothing and the 4 million that the gubmnt employ pay nothing.They borrow money to give to other countries that cant make socialism work and we pay more on the debt and they just want to print more funny money that makes our dollar worthless.How is this logic?When there is no more jobs in this country to pay taxes because the only jobs left are the ones that the illegals occupy that don’t pay taxes,where is the money going to come from?Print some more?The only thing that they have done and by that I mean both sides of the isle,is that they have taken our way of life and liberty and handed it over to the NWO gang.I can only say that even if there is a election and Ron Paul gets the seat we need to have the congress replaced with fiscally responsible people that will change the way things are done and not add to the problem.So you see ed we do agree on some things but we need to ban together if we are to survive this corruption.As a whole we can make the changes but divided we shall fail.

          • eddie47d

            You got it right in saying “all they do is print money” with nothing to back it up. That is a real danger. My point was that the corporate/business tax rate is too high and should be lowered.I agree that the company will only pass on the costs. The CEOs/owners are my sticking point especially when they pad their salaries while the company sinks.Their and all company management paycheck should be averaged out like any other worker so their arrogance isn’t the driving force of their company.Always trying to make more money than the next CEO where their ego has long ago outgrown their shoe size. Bring those spoiled brats back to earth and put their salaries within reason.

    • Karolyn

      Absolutely!

      • Mike

        Hi Karolyn. You are not wrong. The filthy rich do not pay taxes and never will so long as Washington and Wall street are in charge. It is the middle class that will be punished most by tax hikes. The rest will suffer from higher costs and inflation facilitated by our “dear leaders”. Ron Paul will continue to be slandered by the bought and paid for mainstream media, because he is right!

        • eyeswideopen

          Mike, unless you are making over 250K you don’t have to worry about a tax increase. You are safe.

        • john

          the so called top 15 % filthy rich as u call it already pay over 75% of all taxes its the deadbeats america has a problem with

    • Len

      The problem is there aren’t enough billionaires to steal from. What we need is an ASSET TAX that will fall against banks and corporations. Follow that with a sales and use tax on the “gain” realized by purchasing under priced foreign goods that do not have state labor taxes included in their pricing structure (like they do with cars). In less than a year jobs would return to the U.S. and we’d be solvent.

      /Len

    • woodpecker

      The point is Tax Cuts over the years, mainly promoted by Republicans, had been a Con Job for the Rich. And you little fools bought into it; and the GOP is barking about No Tax Increase(mainly for the Rich) But More benefit Cuts on the Poor. When are you stupid right-wingers waking up and wise up? Those tax cuts over the years contributed greatly to the present gigantic national debt.

      • TexasPatriot

        IT’S THE SPENDING, STUPID !!

      • Les

        The Federal Government Spending 3.8 trillion dollars has nothing to do with the Debt. Revenue does not continue to go up with increases in rates (Econ 101). You think I’m going to bust my butt so you can take 80% of it to pay other people to sit on their butts generation after generation? By the way I’m talking about all those public servants that sit on their butts.

        • woodpecker

          No one will force you to do anything if you feel that way. The counytry advanced rather fine after the Great Depression with high tax rates for the Rich — this is fair for the Rich don’t do much dirt works; just let their capital works and earns for them.

      • texastwin827

        Woodpecker, it would seem the only “little fool” is YOU. As an example, if an individual makes $50K a year, but spends (on credit) $450K a year…is it his employer’s responsibility to give him a raise so he can continue to mismanage his financial affairs? NO, it isn’t.

        The solution for this citizen lies squarely on his shoulders and he needs to STOP SPENDING money he doesn’t have and start paying down his debt, pure and simple.

        Regardless of whether they pass a tax increase or not, we will not solve our problems by continuing to spend more than we take in, in revenue. First to go needs to be all these stupid (and I do mean stupid) pork projects and foreign aid to countries who are not truly (and never will be) our friends (that should include the UN & NATO, as well).

        Next we need to close all our military bases, abroad, with exeception of possibly those in the UK..the only true ally we’ve ever had. Germany & France have citizens that can protect their own countries…if not, oh well. Those same soldiers would be better utilized on securing the US borders with Canada & Mexico and I’m sure the Border Patrol would welcome them gladly because the “token” troops they have right now are exactly that…tokens with no authority.

        As for creating jobs…take away the incentives that big Corporations have (Cheap labor, no incoming tariffs & no real reduction in prices, thus major profits) to send jobs overseas and you would be surprised at how fast our economy would grow. But then, that would undermine the “world economy” which has one goal…to have two classes of people..the rich & the poor, with no middle class. Poor people are easier to control.

        • woodpecker

          I agree with the need for cuts in unnecessary spendings as you mentioned, but also we need more revenue coming in to balance it out; doing either one alone(cuts or raising tax) is not feasible. The fact is the Bush Jr. tax cuts were uncalled for and irresponsible, even criminal, while fighting 2 wars. It’s like people were rioting in the streets demanding tax cuts then. Now, regrading to the personal responsibility thing, people need to spend less and save more, but your mentioned example is so exxagerating and overblown and that makes you look foolish. Anyway, my other post would inform you more.

          • woodpecker

            Correction: It’s “Not” like people demanding tax cutx then…

          • texastwin827

            your mentioned example is so exxagerating and overblown and that makes you look foolish…that comment would almost be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

            It is a prime example of the type of spending that is going on by our government and yet you lack the ability to understand how paralleled my example equates to real government spending. That, in itself, makes YOU look like the foolish one.

      • woodpecker

        No one will force you do anything! We need a fair distribution income and wealth so that the mass can get ahead and become middle class and they can spend some(not frivolously in recent decades) and thus they grow the economy. You clowns should know by now(but sadly didn’t) that progressive policies(advocated by both democratic and republican progressives) were put in place in response to the Great Depression(tax rates(much higher than today) and financial/corporate regulations) which created the greatest middle class in world. You have to understand that that came about because wealth spread fairly and more equitably — Not for just the few elites as it’s happening over recent decades which is like the 20-30′s decades. There are only so productivities and profits to go around; now if the few take most of it(through tax cuts/loopholes; union-busting; outrageous top management pay packages)then the rest wouldn’t get much to share — which had been experiencing in recent times. You see it really Worked with progressive policies, and Now it’s a Big Mess when progressive policies are mainly done away. Haven’t you heard that the top 1-10% earned and owned much more than any time in the history, while you little duped clowns had been going down into houses? I doubt very much that the many newly dispossesd are all democrats! Wake up and stop being blind by ideology and partisanship — your GOP screwed you and the rest of us pretty good up to now; sadly the democrats also implemented some of the destructive GOP poliocies. Anyway, we are all in a Ver Leaky Boat together …

        • woodpecker

          Correction: “poor” houses

        • David Weber

          Progressives are VERMIN. The time for debate is over. I would rather fight another civil war than live under communism. I don’t listen to progressives who speak with forked tongues. There can be no middle ground – a Constitutional republic is the antithesis of a Marxist totalitarian state. Keep dreaming if you think Obama is “the one” who will usher in your beloved Communist utopia.

          • woodpecker

            Progressivism is no communism, you redneck! So you don’t like to the US, and Americans, prosperous as it had been right after the Great Depression due to progressive policies? To me, Progressivism means Progress for the People, and Not for just the Top Elites. Don’t worry about going to for your false and idiotic war. A revolution will be coming soon enough, and Heads will Roll literally — keeping talking your nonsense and you’ll likely be included. People just don’t like being put into misery by criminal ideology that allows the Few to hoard all or most of the wealth and in the process it impoverishes the masses. Remember, the masses have the numbers on their side, and when they decide to something abo the Few Elites have no chance of physically them off. I read something people mentined about the possibility of Extermination of the Evil Elites — just like during the French Revolution, Russian Romanov Affairs, etc.

          • woodpecker

            “physically fend them off”

      • Don

        And when has a poor man hired people, idiots like you only see one side of the coin, so go back to huff. post or where ever you come from

    • TexasPatriot

      Why don’t you and Warren send your checks in? Socialism works well until you run out of other people’s money.

      • eddie47d

        Go get ‘um woodpecker. They can’t seem to comprehend how well our country worked in the 50′s when the wealthy paid much more in taxes than they do today and those wealthy thrived.

        • JeffH

          “They can’t seem to comprehend”…now isn’t that a clear case of the pot calling the kettle…LMAO once again.

          FYI…just for starters, what percentage of the population was working and paying taxes in the 50′s and how much of the budget was dedicated to social entitlement programs? How big was government and what percentage of available jobs were through the private sector rather than the government compared to today…food for thought ya think?

        • texastwin827

          In the 50′s, except on the few, rare cheap items that said “Made in Japan”, most everything we bought was MADE IN AMERICA, thus citizens had a job…not like today where we support everyone’s economy, except our own.

          It’s unreal that you would attempt to compare the 1950′s (and yes, I’m old enough to remember) with today, when everything is made in China, or some other 3rd world country and not here.
          Dept of Labor
          http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

          Change the years to 1950-1959 to get the results by year/month. Keep in mind, these amounts were reported much differently than they are, today. The highest months of unemployment in 10 yrs was 1950,1958 & 1959 and, back then, they included those who benefits were exhausted, unlike they way they report it today. 1958 it reached a high of 7.5% in July…by Jan 1959 it was down to 6% and even lower in later months of the same year.

          • eddie47d

            Pay attention to what get’s said here, the majority will never buy Made in America. They will kill off the USA to spite themselves. My toddler doesn’t even throw tantrum like they do.

        • bugsbunnymiller

          what is everyone saying. there saying what there programed to say.
          they do not know history very well. study history and you will see that this whole agument about ss or the fed rev or our det is planed.
          yes planned people. like our military they defend our freedom horse poop. we defend our freedom by not giving it up and doing what is in the bill of rights. they the military don’t they fight other countrys wars and say there defending us. and they have been for the most part false flags ops like the gulf of talkin never happend that cost us 88,000 us lives and how many vetmanise. wepons of mass diss.were it the military industrial complex at its best. now lybia its not our fight at all but oh that oil would be nice and of course put in a world bank cant forget that. get rid of the fed resv the irs wake up america. but you cant to busy texing and being amused note the word amuse meand to not think we do that very well. oh and this protecting our borders look up what bush jr allready put in to action he and the canadian prime and the mexico pres. already have made deals to open up the borders. and what about HR120 and all the family relocation centers that dot our land now. and mithy bill gates you think he cares about us ha see what he said about the population and how he is helping to bring it down. shepeople wake up. this was planed.

        • independant thinker

          And it worked even better in teh 60s after JFK drasticly slashed the taxes.

  • Charles Stevens

    As a 30-year veteran from Wall Street, I am very concerned that our existing president cannot lead this country without defaulting on our existing debt oligations. Defaulting is the last resort and only used when all alternatives have been exhausted. The good ole USA has many alternatives to avoid defaulting and the smartest is a significant reduction in Federal expenses and expenditures. I sincerely hope that our president can wake up in time and lead us down the correct street without the BLACK EYE of defaulting.

    • David

      How can the Government default when the interest payments are only 10% of revenue? The trouble is going to start when Obama raises the debt ceiling and nobody buys our worthless paper. The inflation will devastate our country and put us under international control.

      • OB1

        I think that was the general idea since the days of George H.W. Bush, up until now. Only we have a chance to stop international control.

      • john

        its allready going under international control . u know what china has been doing with all the us dollars it buys and the debt it buys its trading it for hard assets in the us and very quickly they are trying to get rid of as many bonds as they can so they will have hard assets when america crashes financially and it will probably happen with in a couple of years. america under obuma has used his credit card to double the national debt. he must be on crack!

    • C130 Gunship

      Charles Stevens….Let’s review some basic facts concerning defaulting on the national debt. Out of the current $3.6 trillion dollars the feral gubbermint currently spends, it takes in revenues of approx. $2.1 trillion dollars. Therefore they have to borrow approx..42 cents out every dollar spent. There is more than enough revenue taken in ($2.1 Ts)from all forms of taxes, fees, and other revenue streams to pay any principal and interest to service our current debt. What is in question is the ‘other’ .42 cents or $1.6 trillion dollars to pay gubberment ‘OBLIGATIONS’ such as Social Security, Medicaid & Medicare, Welfare, Food Stamps, Unemployment, Pensions, Bonds, and many many others. So, when you see the mulatto Mussolini lips moving on the MSM at night concerning defaulting on the debt, the SOB is lying out his ass! It is a scare tactic that Joseph Goebbels would’ve used in the 1940s.

      The government is going to raise the debt elevator, and the deal that’s going to be cut will absolutely piss off libtards and conservatives alike. Any nefarious ‘cuts’ will be put off years into the future where the future Congress and President will not honor it since they didn’t agree to it to begin with, nor will they be willing to be constrained by it. The only deficit solution that is mathematically sound is politically impossible. All the should’s in the world ain’t gonna change that. There is NO Native Criminal Class; EXCEPT for CONgress.

      As far as Ron Paul is concerned, did anyone read one damn thing new in this article that you haven’t already heard over the last year or so on the radio, tv, or read? I didn’t. Just more squawkin’ from an old man who’s accomplished nothing is his long tenure as a tax sucker. I for one, am very glad to read yesterday he’s retiring. Best of luck Paul, you won’t be missed.

      • Dan az

        C130
        I agree with you on everything up intil you wrote (As far as Ron Paul is concerned, did anyone read one damn thing new in this article that you haven’t already heard over the last year or so on the radio, tv, or read? I didn’t. Just more squawkin’ from an old man who’s accomplished nothing is his long tenure as a tax sucker. I for one, am very glad to read yesterday he’s retiring. Best of luck Paul, you won’t be missed.)That’s where you lost me.Are you saying that Ron Paul is retiring?And that he is a tax sucker?I would really like for you to clear that up!

        • C130 Gunship

          Dan az….Yeah, I’ll be glad too. RP announced yesterday (numerous articles on the web) he’s hanging up his Congressional spurs amid his third run for president. Also, tax sucker is anyone getting a paycheck from the tax payers. He’s been suckin’ on the public teat for over 24 years. Thanks

          • texastwin827

            So C-130 all that matters to you is whether he gets paid, by taxpayers, instead of the fact that he is devout in his support of the Constitution?

          • OB1

            Here is the quote: AUSTIN, Texas — Texas Rep. Ron Paul says he will retire from Congress when his term runs out in 2012 and will focus on his campaign for president.Read more on Newsmax.com: Texas Rep. Ron Paul to Retire From Congress. He is the only candidate who’s voting record matches his claims. Period. And he has a very long voting record. Both Allen West and Michelle Bachmann voted for the Patriot Act recently. Tru to form, Paul did not. Oh, there’s so much more…

            Here is is simple start to read a short article about Ron Paul. The media is corrupt and he is ahead in the straw polls: Tea Party’s Pick: Michele Bachmann or Ron Paul? http://www.newsmax.com/DougWead/MicheleBachmann-RonPaul-SarahPalin-populist/2011/06/28/id/401767

  • Ron

    Karolyn, I need my ss too and we’re not in danger of losing it, at least not in the next year or so. Nobama is just using his scare tactics and class warfare again as common sense is against him. We have plenty of income for all entitlements, the military, interest on our debt etc but some cuts will necessarily be made or we are going to go over a financial cliff. If you would watch something other than communist tv (abc, nbc, cbs, cnbc, msnbc, etc you could get a realistic view of what is facing us. The truth is that if Warren Buffet and all other billionaires gave their total income in taxes it would not make a dent in the deficit. If we dont get a hold on the debt I hope “that our chains rest lightly”. Wake up!

    • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

      Dropping the tax break for the top 5% introduced by GWB would reduce the deficit by $800 billion. That is what is currently being borrowed to make up the shortfall, close to $5trillion over the last 7 years.
      The reason Greece is in the hole it is in, is that the top 25% don’t pay any taxes, 25% is underground economy, 25% work for government and the rest pay at source deducted taxes.
      The GOP are playing fiscal roulette and the gun may go off in their face. Who will they blame? It will bring the whole financial world down and it will be Congress and Senate that will have more than egg on their collectives faces when the sh hits the fan.

      • Mike

        It is the top few percent that pay no taxes in any country. The next 23% pay 70% of the taxes, and almost half pay no taxes (although the inflation and higher cost of living hurts them the most)

        • TexasPatriot

          We need a flat tax on ALL income – welfare, wages, earnings, capital gains – All.

    • Elevenarrows

      Ron, I don’t think Uncle Sam will neglect to send out SS checks…I just think they will be worthless when seniors receive them. If the debt ceiling is raised, it will give solid evidence to our lenders that America is extremely unstable. We can hope no lenders will demand immediate payment or demand even higher interest on our loans, but let’s not forget that America is not well-liked or respected these days. What concerns me is that Dr. Ron Paul has been very accurate over the years and if he believes we will go through bankruptcy, he is most likely right. Be prepared to barter to survive…Uncle Sam won’t be there to feed, clothe or care for us.

      • OB1

        “If Republicans cede to Obama’s demands to raise America’s debt ceiling above the already staggering current limit of $14.3 trillion, Obamacare will be funded, the bailouts will continue, and out-of-control bureaucrats will stay fat and happy.”

  • Jim

    Why do they not stop the trillions of foreign aid and provide for our own people first?

    • http://Moreexpensive,moreunknowproblems. Lewis Munn

      Jim,

      Ask therm It appears that the spendthrifts in Congress are winning, and even if we get our SS checks they will not go anywhere near as far, as inflation eats them up.

      We need to put a hold on the checks to Congressmen, until they come to a sensible agreement. If THEIR money is at stake, rather than ours, things will happen faster.

      I did get a nonsensical letter from my richest Congressman about how we all need to shoulder the load and help the President!! He does not plan to help!!

      • Elevenarrows

        Lewis, I feel absolutely no obligation to shoulder anything more to help the president. I do not think Obama got us into this by himself…quite a few presidents and congressmen have helped over the years…FDR comes to mind as a good example. However, as a small business owner, I am unable to shoulder anymore….I didn’t get a handout (nor would I take one) like other businesses. The best way I can help is to have more of my own money left in my bank account to keep my business running. Oh, but I forgot—the current administration only wants to create more government jobs!

    • iamone3

      I would like an answer to that too. Why are we borrowing to give to other nations? Also it is time to bring our troops home & put them on our borders & ports etc.

    • C130 Gunship

      Jim….I think you meant Billions, not Trillions…..The entire 2011 projected feral gubbermint expenditures is right at $3.6 TRILLION dollars. Perhaps over an extended period 5-10 years it might hit a Trillion, I’ll check that out…..

    • texastwin827

      Good question Jim! Makes you what the real goal of our political officials are, doesn’t it?

      • texastwin827

        oops…thinking faster than my old fingers type…meant to say “makes you wonder”

        • C130 Gunship

          texastwin827….I should have figured my Ron Paul comments would bring out the RP catamites like yourself out from under his desk. While his voting record is quite good, it stops there. Tell me texaswin827, can you name one ‘significant’ piece of legislation he’s written, and garnered enough support to get it voted into law in his 24 years of being a tax sucker? Tell me texaswin827, have you not heard for years that old fart on TV and the radio saying to ‘audit the Fed?’ And right after the 2010 he finally got into a position to do so and what has he done? NOT A DAMN THING!!!!! He has no charisma, no exhibited leadership skills, and lacks the political dynamics to necessary to get support for his causes and therefore is unelectable and unqualified for the POTUS. I’m quite sure you’re not going to like my response, but then again, you’re probably of the school of thought that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the ‘clean end.’ Enjoy your day!

  • Anthony

    Why should someone with lots of money have to pay more? Am I being punished because I’m a hard worker? Because I spend 60 hours a week making this money? Why should I have to turn over my blood & sweat to someone who is to lazy to wipe their ass? What happens after this round of new taxes runs out in just a few months? Are you going to come after me again for more money? Open your eyes HERE IS THE PROBLEM!!! ONLY RON PAUL WILL TALK ABOUT THIS!!! NONE OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES WILL!!!

    “The American people have no idea they are paying the bill. They know that someone is stealing their hubcaps, but they think it is the greedy businessman who raises prices or the selfish laborer who demands higher wages or the unworthy farmer who demands too much for his crop or the wealthy foreigner who bids up our prices. They do not realize that these groups also are victimized by a monetary system which is constantly being eroded in value by and through the Federal Reserve System.” — G. Edward Griffin, The Creature From Jekyll Island, pg. 33.

    • Karolyn

      It’s proportionately. Did you not hear the story of Warren Buffett calculating the taxes he pays vs. the taxes his receptionist pays and finding a big gap? They get away with murder.

      • Anthony

        You still did not answer my question…..did it go over you head?

      • Anthony

        You still did not answer my question…..did it go over your head?

      • home boy

        no , they are just smarter than you. they only pay capital gains taxes of 15% because all the money they make is mainly in stocks. most wealthy keep the doe in sticks or land/housing. so when they sell 15% is all they pay. they have no income therefore no income taxes. maybe you should sit down with a good tax account and learn the ins and outs of our tax laws instead of complaining about what you don’t have and they have.

      • Anthony

        No one should have to pay a tax on their labor. If the government can decide how much of your labor they want an how much you get to keep, that makes you nothing more then a slave. So what you are saying is….you want the government to put a gun to my head and take the fruit of my hard labor and give it to you…because you just don’t feel like working?

        • Karolyn

          When we’re talking about billionaires, what “labor” are we talking about? Most of them don’t labor. I don’t begrudge them their money. Why shouldn’t they pay at least what they used to pay before the Bush tax cuts? Give me a break! Most of them could give a crap about creating jobs or what happens to their fellow Americans. God forbid they have to pay a few more dollars in taxes!

          • Anthony

            Karolyn the rich are not the problem with this country nor are they the answer.
            PLEASE read this one more time…..

            “The American people have no idea they are paying the bill. They know that someone is stealing their hubcaps, but they think it is the greedy businessman who raises prices or the selfish laborer who demands higher wages or the unworthy farmer who demands too much for his crop or the wealthy foreigner who bids up our prices. They do not realize that these groups also are victimized by a monetary system which is constantly being eroded in value by and through the Federal Reserve System.” — G. Edward Griffin, The Creature From Jekyll Island, pg. 33.

            You see Karolyn you have to go to the source of the problem to fix it! You could rob every rich person in America take every penny they have….and it would not fix the problem. the problem is the Federal Reserve and the cartel that runs it………an we can not fix it because both parties are in bed with them….except maybe a few!

    • Al Sieber

      Anthony, I read the creature from Jekyll Island and have Aaron Russo’s DVD, America: Freedom to Fascism, I know exactly what you’re talking about.

      • Al Sieber

        Anthony, I tried to explain to Karolyn about the Federal Reserve at least 3 times in the last 8 months, she still don’t get it you’re wasting your time.

        • Dan az

          Hey Al
          She refuses to read the truth like so many others.They think that its no more than corrupting their liberal minds and its all probably just a lie to them.Until they grow a set and look at the truth we will never convince them,its just a waste time.Sad very sad.

          • eddie47d

            Those wealthy Elites on Jekyll Island are controlling your money too and it is high time all those scoundrels pay their fair share. We won’t gouge (tax) them to much if they promise to stop gouging us. Deal!

          • Dan az

            Tax them not even.Hang them is more like it!They are the ones that got us here in the first place.

          • JeffH

            eddie says, “Those wealthy Elites on Jekyll Island are controlling your money too”…do you even know what they concieved and delivered with that secret meeting on Jekyl Island? I’ll give you a hint…Federal Reserve Act…

            The Jekyll Island duck hunt that created the Federal Reserve
            http://www.jekyllislandhistory.com/federalreserve.shtml

          • Al Sieber

            Well Dan, Jeff, Dave, Anthony, etc. Karolyn doesn’t pay attention to any of our posts about the Fed. Reserve, so, go back to sleep Karolyn, everything is okay. so you won’t get your check by Aug., 2nd.

    • Trude

      Thank you, Anthony, for standing up for Ron Paul who has stood up for
      taxpayers and the Founders’ America for decades and has been scorned
      by his fellow politicians and thieving progressives for doing so. Those of us who has fled socialist countries are having a real hard
      time understanding the many Americans who cannot appreciate the great
      gift – this once free country – given to them by those who believed
      in liberty and its bountiful consequences.

      • TexasPatriot

        Sadly, they are lazy and want the government to care for them. They don’t know or care where the resources to do so come from. They only pay attention to and perpetuate in power the criminal pols who promise them more and more benefits for no effort on their part. The tipping point has (or soon will be) reached where the productive ‘makers’ will be enslaved to the corrupt elitists and the hordes of welfare addicted ‘takers’ until our once free nation collapses into a Socialist/Marxist/Communist cesspool. Then our karolyn and her dimwitted ilk will be satisfied.

  • dan

    It’s Charlie Brown getting ready to kick the football with Lucey holding…DON’T TRUST THEM.Ron has a suggestion that should be implemented : Repudiate the debt. It’s imaginary …at least the
    interest on the bonds is fictional. At least declare a holiday on bond yields until we get this mess straightened out…but then that’s just a nicer way of saying default/bankruptcy/reorganization. It’s not the end of the world.Keep the $6000 a year disability check that I live on…
    Start cutting programs and alphabet agencies and zsars until we can live within our means…..and QUIT WHINING.

    • mickey

      Repudiate the debt is the best idea that has come along.

      Everyone talks about SSA but in reality all the welfare programs come out of this pot, not just the ones the workers receive.

  • Ron

    I am not one of the rich that Obama wants to rape again but I appreciate them for being “American” enough to become rich. I have never known anyone in my life who got a job from a poor man. The “rich” are the job-creators, the capitalists who made this the most exceptional country the world has ever seen. The top 10% of earners pay 70% of the taxes in this country! Whay is that not enough? Because 50% of Americans pay no taxes at all! Not a penny other than their ss and medicare deducts. 47% of Americans are on food stamps! If every American paid just 5% of their net income in actual taxes we could get out of this hole we have dug and our children and grandchidren could realize the American dream as we all have. We need two things, term limits of one term to drain the DC swamp by eliminating career politicians, and a flat sales tax and no other income tax at all so every American would have “some skin in the game”

    • Karolyn

      Pease! The rich are not creating jobs because they’re too scared. It’s fear that’s guiding this nation, so it’s going nowhere. It’s not like they’ll be less rich if they have to pay more taxes! Sp many have more money than they can ever spend anyway. That’s just plain greed!

      • Alex

        Karolyn, you are correct about the rich not creating jobs. I see it not so much as a result of fear as plain old greed.

        Remember, the neo-conartists stated over and over that he Bush Tax Cuts and their subsequent extension would allow the wealthy to create jobs, Obviously, the rich did exactly what we knew rich people would do–that is, to simply get “richer”. Ask Mitch McConnell or Eric Cantor where the jobs are.

      • MSSouth

        Wow Karolyn, you sure drank the kool-aid didn’t you. What makes you think that you deserve one penny of someone else’s hard earned money? I think with this last statement that you have blown your so called conservative cover!!! Good luck to you, just don’t come knocking at my door with your whiney problems. Down here we take care of our own.

        • eddie47d

          No One individual wants their (wealthy) money and I certainly don’t. I have no envy of taking from anybody anything I didn’t earn.What those wealthy earn is absolute greed and unfathomable lust for riches they didn’t get the “old fashion way”. I look at them as thieves stuffing their own pockets and a system out of control. The crooks who feed off of the wealthy’s schemes are no better. No one has the courage or ability to put an end to their monster payouts.Their tactics aren’t benefiting America anymore and it needs to stop.

      • home boy

        sounds like your the greedy. or maybe your jealous of their success. either way when they do spend their money they do help create job. you just don’t see it. when they hire contractors to work on their homes thats job creation. when they buy cars, vacations etc they do help create jobs. you just don’t see it. maybe you should spend more time thinking of ways to earn more money and spend less time complaining . gee theirs an idea.

        • Karolyn

          I most certainly do not envy the rich and am nowhere near greedy. I have taken care of myself my whole adult life. The greed is one thing that just gets my goat. Why would they care about creating jobs as long as they have theirs? I repeat: “How much damn money does anybody need?” They have so much, they can never spend it all. Most charitable donations are made by the middle class. The Bush tax cuts should be rolled back.

          • ValDM

            Except the middle class has benefitted from the Bush tax cuts too. With those tax cuts removed, ALL middle class will pay more & the rich will get their buddy in Congress to tag a nice little line item on the next bill that comes up for a vote that gives that billionaire a big fat pass. That’s pretty simple. There needs to be a moratorium on spending & fed workers need to be furloughed at least one day a week.

      • Elevenarrows

        Karolyn, A bit of faulty reasoning going on there…if someone pays more taxes, they ARE less rich…I’m a prime example. Did you know that 4-2=2?

      • TexasPatriot

        Any fool can see that the Government is creating the jobs. Surely a few million more and another several thousand regulations on the few remaining producers will shore up these ‘bumps in the road’ as Osamabama likes to call them. GIVE US A BREAK!

    • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

      Ron you have just proved your own point. It’s really sad when as you state 47% of citizens are on food stamps and this is in the richest country in the world! You then state that 50% pay no taxes at all obviously they are living below the poverty line, again, in the richest country in the world. Meanwhile, you have the elected representatives willing to default on the debt so they can protect the top 5% and score political points. These people are nuts, they are not only risking US but the whole world. Maybe that is what they want?

      • texastwin827

        do the math…47% on food stamps means they are not only low income enough to pay no taxes, but also likely are eligible for Earned Income Credit…meaning they also get money back, that they never paid in.

        If 47% are eligible for food stamps, then in all likelihood they make up the bulk of the 50% who don’t pay any taxes…ya think?

        • woodpecker

          Are you saying they wanted to be in those situations? Esp. the newly dispossesed? Let me tell you this … I doubt very much they want to be poor to avoid paying taxes(anyway the poor still pay payroll taxes — social security etc.). And they wouldn’t mind trading your place(working and earning good pay) and pay all the required taxes.

      • texastwin827

        “Meanwhile, you have the elected representatives willing to default on the debt so they can protect the top 5% and score political points” So you think only the top 5% vote and therefore have all the power?

        If you, as an individual, make $50K a year but your spend $450K a year in credit debt…is it your employer’s responsibility to give you a $400K a year raise, so you can continue to spend irresponsibily? NO it isn’t.

        While I am a firm believer that our govt. has sold us out (thru NAFTA & this so called World Economy), it still doesn’t negate the fact that our Congress spends money that they do not have. Until they are made to reduce spending, all the tax increases, in the world, are not going to solve our problems. You could take every dime that the top 5% have and Congress would find a way to either spend it or give it away!

      • woodpecker

        I’m afraid we’ll have a veritable revolution, and it will not be pretty. The criminals in high places(Wall Street, Big Corporations, corrupted govt., etc.) are going to get what deserve — Heads Will Roll Literally!

  • batman061952

    Because of the injuries I received during the Vietnam War, I am 100% service connected disabled. I cannot go to work and I will never be able to provide for my family if they decide to end my compensation because they classify it as entitlement, I did not ask to go, I was drafted into the Marines. I do not regret my service and I am proud to have served. I do not need the added stress that this administration is putting on the veterans who served and were injured. This should not be classified as something that the government can take away at will.Social security is also not an entitlement unless you didn’t pay into it, the government has been raiding this account for too long. We need to stop all foreign aid and stop all these pork projects, we need to drug test all welfare recipients to make sure they are not using their entitlements to buy drugs, we need to rid this country of illegals and secure our borders, we nedd to set term limits in congress and we need to stop giving raises to government officials when I haven’t had a raise in two years. When are the people in this country going to stand up to this administration?

    • Les

      I just have to know how you got drafted into the Marines.

      • Vagabond

        les for your information a hell of a lot of men were drafted including my brother and some friends during korea and vietnam,

        • Les

          OK so you know, I am a 6 year vet. I signed up for selective service in 1972. You could only get drafted into the Army. The only way to avoid the Army was to join one of the other services or flee to Canada like so many of the current politicians.

          • Dan az

            Les
            When we were drafted there was a guy that walked down the line and pointed to the you and said army form a line on the other side and the next guy was marine.That’s how it was done when we were drafted I’m not sure in how it was done in 72 that was after my time.

          • bugsbunnymiller

            if you look it up vetnam should have never happend and it did not keep me free the bill of right does that not guns in other countrys

      • “JAVOPE”

        I can tell you how he got drafted in to the Marines.
        When I was taken to the induction center in Los Angeles we were all lined up against the wall. A staff Sargent came down the hall pointing to each man and counting, 1234 your a marine, 1234 your a marine, I was a number 4. If you cant figure this out I will tell you. EVERY FIFTH MAN WAS PUT INTO THE MARINES AND ALL OTHERS WERE PUT IN THE ARMY. Is that simple enough for you to understand young man!

        • “JAVOPE”

          This is how they did it on June 16, 1969

      • batman061952

        When I was induced in Newark NJ in 1970 a Sargent went around the room and pointed to about 10 guys (me being one of them0 and said “you,you, you and you, Marines” That’s how it was done you didn’t get a choice,

    • MSSouth

      Batman, I so agree with you. If they would get all the lazy freeloaders out of the SS and Medicare ‘boxes’ and pay only to those seniors that paid into the system then I believe that at least these two programs would be solvent.

      • mickey

        These two should be solvent. It was in the late 70′s that SSI was added to taking out of the pot. It has only gotten worse. In the 80′s in order to shore up the funds, civil service employees (and military) were added to SSA withholdings. Still welfare grew.

        Look at it: SSA then came Dept Human Services, then Dept of Health, Education, and Welfare (DHEW). With each name change, the original program got raped.

        And the richest country in the world with poverty isn’t a good ruler. We had less poverty in the 50′s than now, only the marker keeps moving. Of course, people were encouraged to work (or starve then) unlike now.

        • Dan az

          mickey
          In the 80′s in order to shore up the funds, civil service employees (and military) were added to SSA withholdings. Still welfare grew.
          The military pays in to SSI which is not an entitlement they also pay for their own uniforms,to say they add to the welfare is just wrong.

          • “JAVOPE”

            I was active 1969 to 1971.
            I did not pay income tax on my earnings while I was in Viet Nam but I payed into SS the whole time I was active.
            PS. I think it is chicken sh*t that a soldier has to pay for uniforms.
            They are most certainly not welfare people, even though they may be paid less than some W/F people on the dole.

          • libertytrain

            I thought it was just officers that paid for their uniforms…. I’m not talking about the dress uniforms just the regular day-to-day -

          • Dan az

            Libertytrain
            Nope everyone and now they want us to insure our soldiers on our dime according to the health bill.What next supply the ammo too?If we are going to police the world for the UN then either they or the country in need should have to pay the bill not us.

          • libertytrain

            years ago when my girl first got in she mentioned that she had to pay for her uniforms but enlisted didn’t – perhaps it was when you first got in or something has changed in the last 12 years or so…or perhaps she didn’t really know either at that point in the beginning of her career.

  • http://yahoo Stephen

    I think that President Obama is posturing being a dictator very well. Something happened between Obama and Senator McConnell. Something was said that shook McConnell to the very core. I feel that if the Republicans cave over the debt ceiling than our nation is doomed. My only question is; will the military back the people or the government? My gut says the government! The Rothschilds have planned their objectives very well and the Bilderberg Group carries on with their legacy. Americans are really afraid that SS and VA benefits will be eliminated. Maybe so, but that will just be a start. The American people ain’t seen nothin yet. God help us!

    • “JAVOPE”

      You may think the military will back the gov and not the people.
      I can tell you for sure the veterans won’t abandon the people.

      • Don

        Amen to that “JAVOPE” and i’ am a 1953 to 1957 Vet !

        • Dan az

          Don
          They where not born by the gubmnt only swore to up hold the constitution to protect us from enemies of abroad and from within.That is what they will do protect the constitution from our enemies from with in.Or they will be put on restriction!

    • texastwin827

      My daughter is young enough to have friends in the current military. To answer your question … they don’t like what is going on in their country…they also say their oath is to defend the Constitution, not politians.

      Thanks to politicans, they may have created their own downfall in a full takeover…seasoned combat vets, to be added to the remaining Vietnam vets, who still take their oath seriously.

      • texastwin827

        it may not look like it…but I really can spell “Politicians”.

    • OB1

      If the debt ceiling gets raised, it will keep Obama going until 2012. Also pay the Fed when QE2 gets repaid, due this October. At this point, it’s a funny money. Raising taxes will not fix the CORE problem. THE US can not pay the fed and some federal workers, but SS etc. have to be. What Obama is threatening to do is illegal, but threatening SS non payment. McConnel just agreed to let the the bill pass the senate with a 2/3 vote. He is a coward too. That way if the debt limit passes the dem senate, the repubs won’t get blamed, so HE THINKS! The following is from Wikipedia:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System

      (please note John D. Rockefeller and J.P.Morgan, connected to the Rothchilds and the Beilderberg Group’s involvement in the start of the Federal Reserve System!

      Federal Reserve Act
      Main article: Federal Reserve Act
      Newspaper clipping, December 24, 1913

      The head of the bipartisan National Monetary Commission was financial expert and Senate Republican leader Nelson Aldrich. Aldrich set up two commissions—one to study the American monetary system in depth and the other, headed by Aldrich himself, to study the European central banking systems and report on them.[24] Aldrich went to Europe opposed to centralized banking, but after viewing Germany’s monetary system he came away believing that a centralized bank was better than the government-issued bond system that he had previously supported.

      In early November 1910, Aldrich met with five well known members of the New York banking community to devise a central banking bill. Paul Warburg, an attendee of the meeting and long time advocate of central banking in the U.S., later wrote that Aldrich was “bewildered at all that he had absorbed abroad and he was faced with the difficult task of writing a highly technical bill while being harassed by the daily grind of his parliamentary duties.”[25] After ten days of deliberation, the bill, which would later be referred to as the “Aldrich Plan”, was agreed upon. It had several key components including: a central bank with a Washington-based headquarters and fifteen branches located throughout the U.S. in geographically strategic locations, and a uniform elastic currency based on gold and commercial paper. Aldrich believed a central banking system with no political involvement was best, but was convinced by Warburg that a plan with no public control was not politically feasible.[25] The compromise involved representation of the public sector on the Board of Directors.[26]

      Aldrich’s bill was met with much opposition from politicians. Critics were suspicious of a central bank, and charged Aldrich of being biased due to his close ties to wealthy bankers such as J. P. Morgan and John D. Rockefeller, Jr., Aldrich’s son-in-law. Most Republicans favored the Aldrich Plan,[26] but it lacked enough support in Congress to pass because rural and western states viewed it as favoring the “eastern establishment”.[2] In contrast, progressive Democrats favored a reserve system owned and operated by the government; they believed that public ownership of the central bank would end Wall Street’s control of the American currency supply.[26] Conservative Democrats fought for a privately owned, yet decentralized, reserve system, which would still be free of Wall Street’s control.[26]

      The original Aldrich Plan was dealt a fatal blow in 1912, when Democrats won the White House and Congress.[25] Nonetheless, President Woodrow Wilson believed that the Aldrich plan would suffice with a few modifications. The plan became the basis for the Federal Reserve Act, which was proposed by Senator Robert Owen in May 1913. The primary difference between the two bills was the transfer of control of the Board of Directors (called the Federal Open Market Committee in the Federal Reserve Act) to the government.[2][21] The bill passed Congress in late 1913[27][28] on a mostly partisan basis, with most Democrats voting “yea” and most Republicans voting “nay”.[21]

  • Ron

    What nobama wants is to raise the debt ceiling now with promises of spending cuts as far out as 10-12 years from now with another prez and another Congress. We’ll never see those cuts. Just more empty promises by the biggest liar who has ever held office in America at any level. When will we wise up that this guy doesn’t care if he brings the country down to a 30′s syle depression or not. He could just declare martial law until this “emergency” is over, suspend elections and become “president for life”. “May our chains rest lightly”.

    • http://google reuben

      the federal reserve is a privately held coporation they print the money what this money is called is fiat money it is basically worthless because fort knox is EMPTY !!!!!!!!!! nothing behind us dollar, china and japan are buying debt dollars they are purchasing OIL with our this debt!!!!!! some thing to keep you awake night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Alex

    President Barack Hussein Obama has thus far been a mediocre leader for the nation as well as a major disappointment for those on the Left and a scary Marxist to those on the Reich.

    Piling the entire CAPITALIST mess that we are in solely onto the back of Obama is wrong and misguided and, as is becoming painfully evident, threatening whatever bits of good may be left in our withered and mean-spirited country.

    As has been quite plainly pointed out, in poll after poll, Liberal and Conservative, poor and rich, West North East South and Central, roughly two-thirds of the public wish to see those at the very top of the steaming American heap pay their fair share of taxes. It is, after all, expensive to send your kids into battle for Capital and even more expensive to pay ONE Blackwater/Xe mercenary what FOUR of your USMC mercenaries receive, even though your kids are tossed onto the frontline while the higher paid Xealots ride around with better armor looking for schoolchildren to shoot.

    That reasonable (on this issue at least) 65-67 per cent of us are not asking so much for an increase of taxation on the wealthiest amongst us, but a return to the sensible level they held before the Bush Tax Cut fiasco. Remember, the BTC Extension was quite clear example of the Democrats willingness to compromise, something that your hated president promised to do.

    The greediest members of Congress continue to block even the most modest of compromise, and this is clearly pushing the fence-sitters back onto the Democratic side. As History shows, you can pull the wool over the eyes of the people only so often. Even the myopic eyes of the middle-class. Simply put, even middle America has to eat and clothe the children, and as the fog lifts they are able to see and sniff out unabashed greed.

    Go WITH your fellow Americans and let those most able to pay their fair share do so. Cut the War Department budget by ten per cent for the next five years; we’ll still be the biggest and meanest rabid bitch on the block and by bringing our “troops” home from their Market Security Posts around the globe they will have more time to sharpen their teeth.

    • Les

      So the more I make, the higher percentage I should pay of every dollar. How socialist of you. You might look around at all the real socialist countries and ask why they are all dirt poor. The only place I have seen socialism actually work is in a Beehive. You need a couple classes in economics so you will learn what happens when you set prices or taxes too high. And no it’s NOT voodoo economics!

    • Cawmun Cents

      The bottom line is this.Have you observed what has been done with all of the money they have claimed stewardship of thus far?So the debate is whether they should be able to continue down the path of destruction further,or lets get with the crush now and deal with the situation?I vote now.I say no to raising the debt ceiling even if it foments unrest or revolution.It is better to do it in my lifetime than in my kids lifetime.I accept resonsibility for my actions,why shouldnt the federal government?No to raising the debt ceiling.There is too much debt already without having to pile up more.An idiot can see that but apparently our own legislators cannot.That says alot about their character and integrity.They have none.-CC.

      • Dan az

        CC
        I stand with you on this and feel that no matter what they do its going to happen now not later.If they raise the debt then our money will crash and we will no longer be the world economy and if they default we will still crash because all of the money that we have borrowed will be paid by the mortgage guarantee that Hillary used to borrow it in the first place and that means they own our land and asset’s.So ether way we loose and the civil unrest begins.Just like in all the rest of the world.Trying to push this on the next administration isn’t going to fix it so they are trying to line their pockets now and get out of the way so martial law can be invoked.This is our time to take back what they have been trying to do by way of the NWO agenda.Its not going to be pretty to say the least.

        • eddie47d

          The present administration is responsible for the present crises(2011).Let’s also not forget that G Bush raised the debt ceiling 7 times. Most Presidents have also done so let’s stay focused. Boehner had said in January,”Failing to pass a new debt ceiling would be a financial disaster,not only for us,but for the rest of the worldwide economy”. That is true so let’s make sure everything get’s on the table so we don’t have this same scenario next summer. That would truly be an American accomplishment or disaster.

          • Dan az

            Eddiee
            Bush is a piece of sh-t that stole our liberty and bill of rights.His old man was bought and paid for by the NWO elite and started the ground work for nafta and clinton signed it into law.Obummer just took it over the top and is expanding it in so many ways its hard to keep up.We agree completely that it is both sides of the fence.What we need to do is stop arguing the fact and do something about it.Hell I don’t know if Ron Paul can do it but he is the only one out there that has seen it coming and has been warning everyone to know avail.Its time that we start listening to what he has to say about how to fix this mess.I know I wouldn’t want the job would you.So what else can we do but inform those that the constitution is what it is,and the only one that has stand firm on it is RP.We are the janitors and its up to us to clean the crapper that this house has become.

    • ValDM

      Alex,
      You’ve posted here several times in the past & always you fall on the socialist side of the fence. What socialism is, is an opportunity not to “share the wealth” as you’ve been brain-washed to believe, but to share the misery. The wealthy will still be rich, but the middle class will cease to exist & the poor will be poorer. Too bad you can’t see this. Take off the blinders. I don’t “OWE” you one penny that I don’t choose to give. Unfortunately, much of what you receive from me & others was TAKEN from us. NO MORE!!!

      • Dan az

        ValDM
        Thanks for that I just can’t stand replying to them anymore its making me crazy.All I want to do is bitch slap them to try and knock the stupid out of them.

        • TexasPatriot

          I’ll deliver the bitch slap, then keep him upright while you knock out the stupid…

          • Dan az

            :)Deal:)

  • Ron

    Thank God for millions like you Batman. I was fortunate enough to serve during peacetime. I tried to go back in when VietNam heated up but I was six months too old. We have treated Vets shamefully, no doubt, but I am certain that their benefits will be paid along with SS, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. If we don’t get these Commies out of DC all bets are off, though.

    • Vagabond

      Ron dont be too sure of medicaid. they have allready cut off my medicaid. I am 75 years old. thank God I still have my V.A. benefits. at least till obummer decides to cut that out too,

      • Dan az

        Vagabond
        He has all ready done that by way of the health care bill.It is mandatory that the parents keep their young on the insurance until they are 26.That means we are now the VA not the gubmnt!

  • AUDREY

    To all the SENATORS and MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:

    IT IS TIME FOR ALL OF YOU TO GET BACK TO BASICS; AND FOLLOW THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

    ESPECIALLY THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTTIVES; YOU WERE ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE TO REPRESENT WHAT THE PEOPLE OF YOUR DISTRICT’S WANT ….. WHICH IS NOT YOUR OWN AGENDA AND EGOS.

    It is about time that you did your jobs which you were originally sent to Washington to do.

    Between 60% and 75% + of UNITED STATES CITIZENS want to see BIG CHANGE in Washington!!!!!!!!!!

    All of you SENATORS AND MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE took an oath of office to uphold the constitution of the United States when you took office…..what happened to that promise???????????????

    We the people of the United States are TIRED OF BEING SOLD DOWN THE RIVER AND PUT UNDER THE BUS BY THE SOCIALISTS IN WASHINGTON WHO ARE HELL BENT ON RUNNING THIS GREAT COUNTRY DOWN THE TUBES.

    We the people of the United States are tired of the SPENDING, WELFARE BENEFITS; THE BAIL-OUTS; THE STIMULAS PACKAGES; THE FOREIGN AID; THE BENEFITS FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS; AND ANYTHING SIMILAR THAT YOU SOCIALISTS DREAM UP,

    IT IS TIME….for Washington to give up; the EGOS AND THE SPECIAL INTERESTS

    IT IS TIME…. For Washington to PUT AND END TO ALL THE CORRUPTION AND PERSONAL GREED

    IT IS TIME ….To send all illegal aliens back home and stop the free ride; NO FREE EDUCATION; NO MEDICAL; N0 FOOD STAMPS; AND anything else anyone dreams up who is not a legal citizen of the UNITED STATES.

    IT IS TIME…..To cut Washington’s pay!!!!!!

    IT IS TIME…. For Washington to start cutting the PORK and special interest projects

    IT IS TIME….to cut all SOCIALIST PRO WELFARE PROGRAMS

    IT IS TIME….for Washington to start cutting the perks and benefits and start contributing to Medicare and social security

    IT IS TIME ….for TERM LIMITS in Washington….one six year term …then go back where you came from WITH NO LIFETIME HEALTH CARE AND NO LIFETIME RETIREMENT. Working for the federal government should be a privilege NOT AN ENTITLEMENT

    IT IS TIME…for Washington to vote for E-VERIFY

    IT IS TIME….for Washington to STOP pandering to illegal aliens….SEND THEM HOME NOW AND CLOSE THE BORDER!!!!!!

    SINCE nothing is “OFF LIMITS” IN Washington ….why are the salaries of congress and the WHITE HOUSE not cut?????

    When are we going to stop paying farmers NOT TO GROW FOOD especially when corn is now being used as an alternative fuel which could lead to a food shortage??????????????

    If Washington collected over 2 trillion dollars of tax revenue in 2010.….why do we still have budget problems??????????????? Could it be; you are spending TOO MUCH MONEY??

    Why is the average net worth of congress @ 30 MILLION PLUS; if this is true lets start with congress salaries!!!!!!!!!!!

    TIME IS RUNNING OUT!!!!!!…..IT IS TIME FOR EVERYONE TO CONTACT THEIR SENATORS AND HOUSE OF REPRESENATIVES AND LET THEM ALL KNOW HOW YOU FEEL. IF MORE PEOPLE CONTACTED THEM …. MAYBE THEY WILL GET THE MESSAGE!!!!!

    • Vagabond

      AUDREY. this is the best post I have ever read and it makes more sense than any I have ever read. why dont you send this same message to ever one in washington??? THANK YOU VERY MUCH,

      • AUDREY

        I AM IN THE PROCESS OF DOING JUST THAT

    • MSSouth

      Audrey, I agree with all you have said. Especially about sending all the illegal boarder jumpers home. And saying that, obama must go to since he is illegal also!!!

    • Don

      AUDREY you said that so well !!

    • Cheryl S

      Audrey, Wonderful, simply wonderful. You know there is a simple solution.

      1. Tort Reform across the board for Car Insurance, Health Insurance and Homeowners Insurance. Let the Insurance companies finally compete for business, watch the prices fall.

      2. Flat tax. I agree, we have too many illegals who pay nothing but TAKE EVERYTHING! Pass a Flat tax of 6%. Totally get rid of IRS. What you will have is ALL illegals paying tax on everything they purchase. No one will ever have to file taxes, the uppercrust however will have to pay a “little” more for their bigger toys. No more worries over IRS Tax fraud, everybody pays INCLUDING ILLEGALS. Look at the money saved with IRS Gone, and look at the funds that the illegals would be paying into our government that they don’t pay now.

      3. Obama is doing this on purpose. He has come out and threatened the seniors. We have enough in our Social Security and Disability Pensions until the year 2037. He scares the seniors into thinking they will lose that check so he can come out at the last minute and say he saved it for them because he has no other way to look good. If he wanted to look good he should have told th seniors there was no way anyone was going to hold back their checks…..instead he threatens them and unfortunately our Seniors are believing that….shame on them all including the Republicans we put in office!!! NEVER, NEVER trust a person who is or has been an attorney that has gone into politics, they all have nothing to lose and we have everything to lose including our Country.

      Obama, along with George Soros is looking to take this country down. If you look up George Soros, you will find the devistation he has done to the other countries he went to and now he is here doing the same…look him up on the web, it’s enlightening.

      Flat Tax and Tort Reform. No raising of the Debt Cieling, shut the government down…we save 87 Billion per day!!!!! If Reed has his way with the other Democrats the Debt Ceiling will be raised and they will be spending more……they cannot let this happen.

  • AUDREY

    A Real Eye Opener … WHY is the Mighty USA BANKRUPT?

    You think the war in Iraq was costing us too much? We have been hammered with the propaganda that it was the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.
    $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.

    $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

    $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

    $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

    $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

    $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

    $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the
    American taxpayers.

    $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
    The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US

    In the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern
    Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the US from the Southern border.

    The National policy Institute estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.

    In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their countries of origin.
    The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States

    The total cost is a staggering $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR AND IF YOU’RE LIKE ME, HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.

    Are we THAT stupid? YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S. CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!
    http://www.429-460.com/t6447-why-is-the-usa-bankrupt

    • home boy

      we all know why but will someone take the bull by the horns and lead? not!

      • Dan az

        homeboy
        This is what Ron Paul has been preaching for the past thirty years!And nobody seems to take him seriously.Whats it going to take for everyone to wake up and stop listening to MSM and the rest of the alphabet new?They say he is a right wing nut case and ignore him,was he wrong?Everything he has said in the past has come true.It’s not rocket science just common sense!

        • TexasPatriot

          I agree with most of Rep Paul’s policies. However, I will never vote for someone who supports legalization of killer drugs and prostitution. Let me know if I have him wrong on these issues.

          • Alex

            You are wrong with nearly every post, TexassPat.

          • OB1

            Many do not know what Ron Paul stand for or is all about. The MSM gives him little or no coverage. However, he is winning many of the straw poles once people find out. One example is what you said about the out of text quote about drugs and prostitution. Here is one of many articles that the MSM did’nt want people to know, but it gets out anyway:
            Ron Paul Steals the Show at Faith and Freedom Conference
            link: http://www.newsmax.com/DougWead/RonPaul-FaithandFreedomCoalition-RalphReed-Romney/2011/06/09/id/399465

            Thursday, 09 Jun 2011 02:22 PM
            By Doug Wead
            Read more on Newsmax.com: Ron Paul Steals the Show at Faith and Freedom Conference

            …Paul reminded his audience of the Biblical story of 1 Samuel chapter 8 when the Israelites demanded a king and God warned them what would happen. They would be burdened with taxation and the king would take their sons away to die in distant wars.

            “I don’t think we need a king,” Paul told the audience, “and we don’t need Washington to act as if they’re the king of this country.”

            His speech evoked the largest applause and cheers of the day.

            Ron Paul’s recent appearance and the reaction of his audience reflect a growing trend among evangelicals who see the erosion of the constitutional right of freedom of religion to be the new threat.

            “This is no longer about Christians trying to force prayer in schools or an end to abortion,” a famous televangelist told me.

            “While we have been busy talking about those things we have had the constitution stolen right before our eyes. This is now about whether or not we have the right to worship freely. The battle is now over the constitution itself,” he added.

            Last year Ron Paul was criticized by some Christian leaders for defending the rights of Muslims to build a mosque in New York City. Libertarians, who defend the congressman, point out that less than 1 percent of the American population is Islamic. 76 percent are Christians.

            If the government is given the power to decide where and when a house of worship can be built, then the Christians, not the Muslims, will suffer most.

            In recent years, Christian pastors and denominational leaders have grown frustrated as state and county governments use zoning boards to block the construction of new churches, keeping the land on the property tax rolls. In some of the largest counties in America, a new Christian church cannot be built.

            “More and more Christians are seeing the critical importance of Ron Paul’s message,” says Brian Jacobs, a former consultant for the Billy Graham organization. “If we compromise the Constitution, even to promote something we want, in the long run, we are undercutting ourselves.”

            Jacobs helped arrange the meeting between Billy Graham and George W. Bush in Jacksonville, Fla., the day before the national election in 2000. Jacobs is now actively supporting Ron Paul’s candidacy.

            Bill Spiegel, a former member of the Senior Bush President’s Economic Council and the Southern Baptist Liaison for George H. W. Bush, says, “Much of the money that was going to evangelical lobbies in Washington is now going to Ron Paul. And the Christian leaders in Washington have been taken by surprise.

            “It is because the people are seeing what the leaders are missing. They don’t want power; they want to be left alone to worship in freedom and Ron Paul is the only candidate who is defending that right consistently.”

            Ron Paul shared with the Christian activist audience his own experience as an OB doctor, delivering more than 4,000 babies. And why he supports Right to Life.

            “Let me tell you,” the congressman said, “life does begin at conception.”

            Perhaps his biggest applause came when he told the audience, “We have, as a people, lost our confidence and our understanding of what true liberty is all about and where it comes from. It doesn’t come from the government. Our liberties come from our creator.”

          • bugsbunnymiller

            freedom is freedom i can not stop you from burning our flag just like you cant stop me from putting that same flag on a pole. if some one wants to go to a doctor for some pain pills or and look up how depression pills work on the brain it worse than marijhana. but big busness is behind that look at the worning they tell you you might want to kill yourself after taking this med. liberty is that and as long as it dont hurt someone else we have no right to tell someone they cant if you belive in freedom.

          • TexasPatriot

            the post was not directed to you, anuslex

          • Karolyn

            Those are two of his best planks!

          • Dan az

            TexasPatriot
            Ob1 is right on the money.When there was prohibition did it stop the people from drinking?The fact is everyone has the right to put what ever they want into their bodies even the guys.Its not the right for the gubmnt to say otherwise.If left up to the states were it should be then the ones that don’t like the law’s can leave and find one that suits there need.Tax it and use it to better the states but quit throwing everyone in jail for the states to feed and cloth.If weed killed people then probably no one would use it.So why then do they allow cigarettes that they say does?Liberty is the right to do with your body what ever you want its your life.Weed helps pain issues and eye issues and cancer patients all around the world.I have never seen anyone in my life strung out on weed.That’s a myth that big pharm put out there so as to sell more lethal drugs.Have you ever heard of someone being killed or even a ticket for going to fast while on weed.No they would really rather walk than drive.Its to fast for them.As far as prostitution goes what makes the gubmnt think that if it were to be legal that they would spread disease?Don’t you think that if it were legal they would be inspected and lic. and probably insured.Thats the problem with big gubmnt they always think that they need to protect you from your self.I think I can make my own decisions whats best for me.Can’t you?

    • 45caliber

      At best guess, there are 40,000,000 illegals OR MORE in the US right now, not counting the anchor babies. I say “best guess” because the government tends to down play the number here. This guess is based on observed numbers that are seen and counted coming across the border ever day.

      • http://www.morpix.biz/gates(adopted) Dave Wilber

        In 1980, I contributed $100 to Ron Paul’s campain. I now say he is a liar and a freemason! google: ron paul freemason. As for being a liar, he keeps speaking of government spending money. They cannot get money fron you when all that you have in banks is numbers! They have no need for money when all of us will risk our lives for numbers.

    • Dan az

      Hey Audrey
      Are a sixshooter by the way you yell I would guess your from Arizona :)
      Good post welcome and keep up the good work!

  • Ron

    True, it’s not just Nobama’s fault, I was a Bush guy until he screwed up so bad that he lost both houses of Congress in 2006. That opened the flood gates with Pelosi and Reid given a free hand to rape the country. If that wasn’t bad enough Bush gave us a Commie president. I’ll hate Bush for the rest of my life for doing this. Nobama has tripled Bush’s debt contribution in less than three years and brought our country to the brink of disaster from several directions.

    • home boy

      and yet you still think that the political system is the only answer. hope your enjoying your voting rights.

  • Gene

    I believe when a person goes bankrupt, someone else becomes possessor of their goods. If we go bankrupt as a country Mr. Ron Paul, who owns our country, our parks, our roads, lakes government etc. etc. etc? Your a phoney catering to the Conservatives. Go ahead Mr. Paul: steal our government ,its laws, regulation, resources, culture, institutions, programs if we’re stupid enough to vote for you to give you that chance.

    • Anthony

      What in the world are you talking about? If you thank Ron Paul is the problem………..you are very miss informed….

      • JeffH

        Anthony, ya gotta wonder what rock they’ve been sleeping under sometimes.

        • Dan az

          Brother Jeff
          Is it in the water?What the hell is going on that so many people blame Paul for the mess that were in?For thirty years he has warned them about this day and they blame him for it!Wow I feel I’m in the twilight zone.

          • Dan az

            Hey where’s my gun?My picture disappeared, I’ll Be Back!

          • Dan az

            Thank God I choose this one because I almost put the one you got on.lol
            that would be like walking around down with the same clothes on :) :)Next time give me a heads up little brother people might talk about us. :)Some times I crack my self up!!!!

          • JeffH

            I her ya brother Erkle Obama… :)

    • 45caliber

      Gene:
      I’m missing something here in what you say.

      If we go bankrupt, you can bet the court system here will be willing to assign ownership of the parks, etc. to some other country holding our notes. But raising the debt limit so we can borrow more will NOT stop us from going bankrupt. It will simply mean that we go bankrupt sooner. Ron Paul isn’t insisting that we go bankrupt now; he is trying to insist that we balance our budget and quit borrowing. Not only quit borrowing but actually start paying off what we owe.

      If you borrow from the bank to buy a new car, you balance your budget at home and pay off the loan. You can’t keep go borrowing more money. That is what Paul doesn’t want us to do.

      • bugsbunnymiller

        45caliber who runs our parks now the un yes the un has a carter to all us parks you can go to one near you and look for this plak and you will see for youself. but its easy to stay asleep.

    • Al Sieber

      Gene, what the hell you been smoking? loco weed? come on man get real.

      • Al Sieber

        Bugs Bunny, the UN has control of the Grand Canyon and other National Parks, you don’t need to get on 45′s ass.

  • benrush

    Watch “The Money Masters” and especially “The Creature from Jekyll Island” on YouTube.

    It’s all funny money.

    It’s sad that the Social Insecurity program has so many suckers. If the truth be told, it’s the greatest Ponzi scheme in existence. Well, the second greatest. The first is the Federal Reserve System itself.

    • 45caliber

      Originally, when I was young at least, SS was not a Ponzi system. You paid in, your money was saved, and interest was paid into the SS system on the money. When you retired, there was over a million dollars there on your behalf that would finance the interest for your retirement. The principal stayed with the SS system when you died so it would continue to pay for others.

      But it acquired too much money too fast since most were paying in and few were drawing it out. So the politicians started “borrowing” it. Now they have to pay interst on the money, which takes away from what they are spending, so they don’t pay interest any more. Instead they simply take the money. It is basically broke every year since they take out every penny that those who retired don’t get and they must get enough money coming in from those who haven’t retired yet to pay those drawing it.

  • Ron

    One thing beyond comprehension to me is why are we having this capitalism vs socialisnt/communism discourse at a time when we have the perfect examples of where socialism leads in the events in Europe occuring every day. Greece, Ireland Spain, and now Italy, the 3rd largest member of the European Union, are either totally bankrupt (we helped bail them out) or nearing bankrupcy as we speak. Why can our leaders not see these perfect examples?

    • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

      What about socialist Canada?. Is streets ahead and are not remotely close to bankruptcy. What about socialist Germany which is an economic powerhouse holding the Euro together? The countries that you mention all have one common problem. They are all riddled with corruption and people avoiding paying taxes. They all have a large undergound (grey) economy which deprives society of a tax revenue to pay for basic services

      • 45caliber

        And we have the same things here to cause problems. Germany is rapidly going bankrupt and so is Canada for that matter. England has an 80% wish by the voters to pull out of the EU because of that very problem.

  • jopa

    All this gloom and doom about raising the debt ceiling.It was raised seven times when GWB was president.The problem is when Bush implemented his tax cuts and started two wars the math is simple.That does not work.That is the main reason the tax cuts were supposed to expire.We are now living the so called trickle down economics and how is that working for yah!Now the Republicans want to let their millionaire and billionaire buddies keep their tax cuts and use the money from Social Security,Medicare and Medicaid to fund our governmental expenditures.The Ryan plan will eliminate Social Security and Medicare as we know it today.Be very careful when you vote and know the issues.

    • 45caliber

      jopa:

      But all you Dems now say that Oblama’s wars and debt raises WILL work. Can you explain why his work and GB’s didn’t?

      • Dan az

        45
        Ya right you think your going to get him to reply Ha! :)

      • eddie47d

        Who says we approve of “Obama’s wars”? All wars have a sinister beginning and few have a positive finish. If the debt ceiling has to be lifted so be it if can hold the line.It’s a shame Washington hasn’t figured out this monstrosity yet or for the past couple of decades.Ron Paul seems to be the only one willing to battle the establishment,(certainly not the rest of the Republican field).

        • Dan az

          Eddie
          You have gained my respect with that one.That proves to me that there is light at the end of the tunnel after all.Thanks

          • Dan az

            Little Brother
            Stop punching eddie. :)

          • JeffH

            :( You’ll pay dearly for that one…knock, knock…who’s there…no one…no one who? No one really believes eddie anyway! :)

          • eddie47d

            Is it the shadow boxer with another intelligent answer? Not! Soon no one will be believing anything that Jeff says.

          • Dan az

            I cant even type after that one :)I think I wet my self :) :) STOP IT YOUR KILLING ME!!!

        • Al Sieber

          Okay eddie, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, I trust neither dems., or republicans, even though Ron Paul is a Republican, he has Libertarian views, like I have. though I still have reservations about all politicians. your buddy Obama is a Communist who is taking us down fast, but just continuing the agenda of the other past presidents. I’m not trying to get on your ass, just make you think. you get more bees with honey, then crap.

          • Al Sieber

            And eddie, JeffH has always been right on if you go to his links and read them.

          • eddie47d

            Thanks Al I’m only getting back at Jeff for his smartazz replies to me. It’s a daily event.

          • Al Sieber

            I know eddie, it breaks up the boredom.

  • Jamie Ashley

    We all need to remember that the President doesn’t set the budget…. the CONGRESS sets the budget. GWB was president when the real mess started….but we should be reminded that it was a Democratic congress that approved THAT budget too….in fact we have had a Democratic congress for the past 10 years…and the past 10 raises to our debt ceiling. The people are tired of the taxation and reckless spending of a runaway Democratic congress. I would love to hear Senator Paul stand up to them and tell them that there won’t be ANY discussions about cutting Social Security or Medicare until all their PET programs are SLASHED to the bone! (hundreds of programs costing us several TRILLION dollars in wasted tax dollars each year and the reason we are in this mess to begin with!) The only programs the Democrats are willing to cut are the necessary ones like Social Security and Medicare that the older population depends on! And they want to cut those while they continue to waste money on STUPID (in some cases, REALLY stupid) programs that don’t do any good. We’re with you Ron! Go get ‘em!

    • 45caliber

      Jamie:

      The only programs the Demos SAY they are willing to cut are SS and Medicare because they know people will get upset about those. If they hadn’t “borrowed” the money from them, there would be more than enough money there to cover those costs for at least another century. They want to maintain all programs that buy votes for them so they don’t mention the programs that the taxpayers would be willing to cut. I doubt if they really want to cut SS anyway – if they did the taxpayers would insist on cutting the taxes for it which the Demos REALLY don’t want to cut.

  • http://personallibertydigest Scott

    If we would stop sending billions of dollars to other countries to prop them up and demand repayment of past debts from other countries (France still owes us from WWII), and stop spending on stuff like the mating rituals of the tsetse fly we would be OK

    • 45caliber

      Scott:

      Back when Reagon first took office he set up a commission to determine how the US could get out of debt. A guy by the name of Grace was appointed and it was called the Grace Commission. It has since been renamed the Citizens Against Government Waste.

      They found that (at that time) we didn’t really have a debt. We owned far more foreign government bonds, etc. than we owed money. So they stopped talking about “debt” and started talking about “deficiet”. And they kept trying to get the deficiet down.

      The main reason was the FHA. When it makes a home loan, it requires the new homeowner to take out a mortgage insurance. If there is a default, the insurance pays off the loan – and the FHA also gets the house which they resell. The extra money they received went to buy foreign bonds.

      The real problem is that we still own and buy foreign bonds – but their countries don’t intend to pay them off or – in many cases – even pay interest on them to us. So if we tried to sell them to pay off our debt we’d be out of luck.

      Still, it is part of the plan of the One World people. If we own part of China and China owns part of us, which country is really the ruler? You need a One World government to keep track of things. They are trying to do the same thing now with the “loans”. Each country is expected to pay off their debts to other countries by giving land ownership to the foreign countries. And this land ownership does NOT have to be land owned by the country giving it. For example, the US could give ownership of New York City to China in return for its debts – and all citizens there would be citizens of the US but living on land claimed by China.

      • Dan az

        45
        Well put!!!!!But I think it may still be a little over their head! ;)

      • Alex

        Didn’t Ronald Raygun, when he wasn’t trading hostages for arms and arms for drugs, become the biggest debt creator, at least up through his time?

        • eddie47d

          I’m not sure if he was the one to raise the largest debt up till then. Roosevelt did for a time and Johnson built a whopper debt. Reagan did raise taxes which is something you have to do from time to time. They all do it for a variety of reasons and Obama is only one of many. Clinton also raised taxes but kept the deficit and debt very low. You take the good with the bad and make attempts to improve what you have.

          • Al Sieber

            eddie, there’s no way to get out of this one, Reagan raised the interest rates to bring us back, and Clinton took money from social security to balance the budget, nothing will work now, we’re done.

      • OB1

        Thank you for stating this very simply and very well. Harry Reid gave a huge chunk of land to China in Nevada where they are building a solar generating plant. Check it out.

        • eddie47d

          Now explain to us how the Chinese are going to get that solar power back to China?

          • bugsbunnymiller

            eddie47d the money will go back to them ie china. that simple.

          • eddie47d

            I was kidding. In reality Nevada will benefit at the tune of 40 billion dollars in this investment. This massive project will also bring down the cost for all solar projects in USA. China will get their share of profits like any American company that builds in another country. California and other Western states are supposed to benefit from this too. China is investing and building an even bigger solar project in Mongolia. 20 years ago the USA was king in solar technology and could have beat the pants off of China. You snooze you loose thanks to the negative trashing solar got from the right wing and their refusal to adapt to alternative energy sources.

          • Dan az

            eddie
            A very loooooooooong extension cord! :)

          • Al Sieber

            eddie, I live 30 miles from where China is gonna build this plant, and “Whorehouse” Harry Reid sold us out and people don’t care around here because they don’t care if they work for Communist China.

          • Al Sieber

            Hey eddie, what about Obama promising that American companies will build the solar plants? wind power etc., he’s just a liar, like everything else he said in his campaign speeches, no jobs for Americans? right?

          • eddie47d

            Yes Obama should have encouraged an American company to complete that Nevada project. I’m not aware if there was a bidding war and China won. What a shame.

    • DWK

      Scott, I agree completely.
      Not to mention the 100′s of millions of our tax $ being used to refurbish mosques in the M.E. and being given away in foreign aid all over the world. Instead of us borrowing money from the chinese and giving it to whoever, let them borrow it from china. Why should we American taxpayers have to co-sign?
      Something is wrong when we are broke and still spend tax $ on stupid sh!t like a study of shrimp on treadmills.
      The report below will blow your mind with the waste.
      http://coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=2dccf06d-65fe-4087-b58d-b43ff68987fa

  • momplayer

    Although I vote every election I still have doubts weather who we vote for is the one elected.Here is Nevada angle ran against reid. Really?What choice?A republican who says the American people are lazy and don’t want to work or reid who has his head so far up obama @#&* that he can check his back teeth for cavities.There is NO ONE so far that has announced their running for president that I would trust leaving my dog with little loan my country.If you do get someone that would do something good for this country then whoever controls the media takes over and every dirty piece of laundry is hung on the line.
    Why didn’t all the garbage come out about obama before the election?They didn’t have a problem bringing out junk on other canidates.We do need term limits,but does anyone honestly think that they would pass a law that would lose them their job in 6 years?I think not.I have heard that companies like verizon pay not corporate taxes since their company base is not in the US why? The companies that take their companies overseas should pay higher taxes.

    • 45caliber

      mom:

      I have doubts about who your vote went to in the last election also.

      They caught the computers counting Angle’s votes for Reid in early voting. She was running well ahead of him until the last hour or so of the election. Then some union “repair” men came in and adjusted the computers again. Suddenly he won. Pelousy won by eighty percent of the vote and so did Boxer – although both were expected to win by bare majorities. I’ve NEVER liked the idea of computers for voting since it is so easy to program them to count the vote however they wished.

      As far as taxes are concerned at company levels, the US originally set up the tax system so that Americans working overseas didn’t pay US taxes; they paid the taxes of the country they were in, which was generally more than they paid here. To get people to work overseas, the companies would pay the taxes for them there. After awhile the US agreed that companies would pay the taxes of the country where their headquarters were located. So immediately several small countries decided to charge NO taxes to companies to get them to move there. Such as Bahamas. And the tax situation in the US is so complex that many companies have done just that. I can’t really blame them since I’ve had to deal with some of the government regs. I’d move just about anywhere to get rid of them too. Talk about a pain!

  • Mike

    Maybe I’m missing something here but isn’t this a problem we always solve? When Nixon changed the gold standard to the US dollar we entered a game of monopoly.

    What happens when you run out of money in monopoly?

    The instructions say to simply take out a blank piece of paper and write dollar signs on it. So we’ll raise the ceiling again and just keep printing- same as before. Is there a downside to doing this?

    • 45caliber

      Yes, there is a downside. The more paper money you print, the less it is worth. That is called inflation. In some African countries where they have done this, it costs a million of their dollars just to buy a loaf of bread. Mexico has the same problem. We don’t need that problem too.

      • Mike

        Again… print more. We create something out of nothing and the only downside is a little inflation? Wow.

        • 45caliber

          Not a little inflation – a lot.

          Why do you think the price of things goes up all the time? It goes up because money has lost its value because they made too much of it. You have to pay more to get whatever you want such as food, gas, iPods, etc. So we should print more – and cause the prices to go up faster?

          The only way we can sort of keep level with rising prices is rising income. And income NEVER goes up as fast as prices because – if you are lucky – it goes up once a year while prices go up constantly.

          I don’t know about you or what you do to get money, but my income doesn’t go up that fast. So I DON’T want them to keep printing money. I want them to stop so I MIGHT be able to catch up a little!

          • Mike

            I think we need to embrace the concept I mentioned before:

            “We create something out of nothing”

            That would be impossible to do if we were on the gold standard. You can trade gold for goods and services and walk with barefeet in the sand eeking out an existence… or we can play the game of monopoly, by creating wealth where none existed before, and wear designer shoes walking on nice travertine and watching our 55 inch bigscreen. Your choice.

  • mickey

    The government used to be the safest place to put SSA monies. It was a locked box. Then the war on poverty began and SSA became the slush fund. Wall Street has wanted the control over these monies for decades so they could steal them just like they have many retirees monies since Glass/Stegal was signed out of law by Clinton.

    What we have (and they call themselves bleeding hearts) is most dems go for welfare (beyond what is needed) and repubs wanting to keep the funds safe. Of course, by now, both have mismanaged all funds.

    If corps are forced to pay more taxes, those depending on the stock market for their retirement benefits will see those benefits cease–poof–gone.

    The part of greed that I have a gripe with is putting celulose in Taco Bell meat, the reduction of size of products, while raising the cost of the products. Of course, that comes back to the government which is supposed to regulate (prevent) these types of things.

    Corporate taxes aren’t the entire issue. All parts of our government are involved in putting an Amish man in jail for selling raw milk, for not labeling GM foods, etc.

  • Bert Cundle

    Isn’t Ron Paul running for the Presidency?
    Fear tacticts work on dumb people! ( Vote for me… or you will be sorry. “I” can save you all…) THERE ARE NO POLITICANS, worth their weight in salt! Trump pulled out; BEACUSE HE IS WISE! And has a conscience!

    • Bert Cundle

      CORRECTED: President Barack Obama’s reelection campaign and the Democratic National Committee raised a combined $86 million
      ————– Small part of the interest on our debts.

      If: All Working people paid $ 500.00 more in taxes this year… We would be debt free next year!

      • 45caliber

        Sorry, Bert. You missed a decimal point. $500 per person won’t pay off our debt. It is closer to $50,000 per person – and that is per every man, woman, and child in the US.

        • Bert Cundle

          275,000,000
          500.00 ×
          ————————–
          137,500,000,000 O.K. … ( You are right!) [ 137 B.] I Still want to know where Bush Spent 17 T. After Robing the rest of the World of Who knows how much!

          • Bert Cundle

            137 M. Gee that much is spent every day…

          • Bert Cundle

            137 “B.” … I’m going back to bed… Rough night.

    • 45caliber

      Bert:

      I seriously doubt that Trump has a conscience. And I’m not too sure about how wise he is. I think that he simply realized that no matter how much money he spent, he’d never get enough votes to win.

  • http://www,pappymart.com John Hanna

    Don’t raise the limit, live with it and decrease it.

    • mark

      Even the most conservative budget plans, like the Republican Ryan Plan call for a substantial rise in the debt ceiling for many years to come. In order to live within the current U.S. debt limit, in other words, to borrow no more additional funds, the United States would haved to cut its current budget by more than a third. Because we currently only take in about 63 cents in revenue for every dollar that we spend. That would mean more than a one third cut immediately in all Social Security payments, Medicare payments, federal education programs, Head Start, military salaries, federal salaries, and also of course an immediate one third cut in all federal institutions – this would included the Marine Corps, the Navy, the Air Force, the Army, the CIA, Homeland Security, airport screeners, etc. Most Americans including the most conservative Tea Party-backed politicians like Paul Ryan see this as too draconian. They call for a ten-year plan to gradually balance the budget – not to cut everything immediately by 40%. So the debt limit will rise irregardless. Most people don’t understand this. If Obama caved on everything to the Republicans and gave Paul Ryan 100% support for his plan today, the debt ceiling would still rise. In fact this is what conservative politicians are hoping for – a complete victory for the Ryan Plan. The Simpson-Bowles Budget plan is also a very long-term deal that would slowly balance the budget over 10 years -and allow for a short term increase in the debt ceiling for the next several years.

      • NamNavyVet

        Irregarless is not a word. I had an Business Communications teacher in college tell us that anyone that uses irregardless would get an F in her class.

      • 45caliber

        SS and Medicare as SUPPOSED to be funded seperately from the rest of the budget. As a result, if the funding for the budget it cut to one third without reducing taxes these should NOT be affected. But it is a way to worry people. If Congress would leave these two things alone, we’d be okay there.

        • mark

          Right, SUPPOSED TO BE. The reality is that next year for the first time in its history, Social Security will take in less than it pays out. This means it will have to dip into general funds, since the Social Security Trust Fund is simply a pile of U.S. government paper, t-bills, bonds, etc i.e. U.S. debt obligations funded by the general tax payer. Similarly with Medicare, the program does not pay for itself from payroll deductions alone – and has not for years. It constantly dips into general funds year after year with huge increases rising each year. In other words both programs now rely on borrowed funds. Just as all our wars are and have been funded for years with Chinese, German, French, and Canadian money, the people and banks who buy our t-bills.

          • 45caliber

            I’m not altogether certain that SS will take in less than they pay out next year. The government has a tendency to take what percentage they want of it upfront and what is left is supposed to go to the people drawing SS.

            Further, many on SS shouldn’t actually be there since they are not drawing retirement and didn’t pay anything into it. Many are invalid for some reason – sometimes from birth. They also have what is called “crazy money” as well. If you can prove your child has some emotional problem – usually by encouraging your child to cause trouble at school – your child AND you can draw as much or more than a SS retiree can every month. This should be welfare, not SS.

      • 45caliber

        As for cutting the salaries of people working for the government – if they simply laid off all the redundant people in the government, we could probably balance the budget. And I’m not too worried about cutting someone’s salary to one third when they are making a couple of hundred thousand a year. Military, on the other hand, is already cut too low. We could lay off the redundant people in Washington and probably give the military a pay raise.

        • TexasPatriot

          I agree 100%. My neighbor works for IRS. Seldom leaves home, and then only for lunches etc paid on gubmint expense accounts. Travels extensively to meet with other do-nothings and eat, drink, shop, and sightsee – all on the taxpayers’ backs. Gets paid about $150,000 per year plus unbelievable perks and benefits for this ‘essential’ work.

          • eddie47d

            ??? “Seldom leaves home…but travels extensively??? Now that really makes sense! Besides alot of people work from home. I believe you are now the new King of envy.

          • JeffH

            eddie, it’s called read and “comprehend”!

            “Seldom leaves home, and then “only for lunches etc paid on gubmint expense accounts”. Travels extensively to meet with other do-nothings and eat, drink, shop, and sightsee – “all on the taxpayers’ backs”.

            Do you really need someone to explain it to you?

          • eddie47d

            How does she know and apparently you that he is meeting with other do nothings?? More crystal ball assumptions from the fright wing underground? At least we now know you are also willing to spy on your neighbor and can’t be trusted! Bingo Herr Jeff!

          • JeffH

            Poor eddie, just can’t admit you’re wrong can you. TexasPatriot’s comment was taken at face value by me, no assumptions. Unlike you, I have no reason to dis-believe what was said…and unlike you, TexasPatriot is a creditable poster that is believable.

      • TexasPatriot

        More tripe from Socialist Scareocrats. You didn’t mention options such as complete elimination of benefits for persons who never contributed anything (such as generational welfare addicts and illegal (criminal) aliens. You didn’t mention the complete dismantling of useless agencies such as the depts of (no)education, (waste)energy, (inhibit)agriculture, HUD, EPA, IRS, and a host of others. You make want to puke.

  • DavidL

    I like and respect Ron Paul, but his libertarian view, like all libertarian views, are perfect on paper. Put them in the real world and they do not work.

    If we do not raise the debt ceiling, our deficit will get bigger, not smaller, and end up costing us all significantly more while receiving significantly less.

    We should be cutting spending, reforming and simplifying the tax code so everyone pays his or her fair share, and reforming the long term health and security of Medicare and Social Security. But refusing to raise the debt ceiling, and becoming a deadbeat country, is not the way.

    Read the Bipartisan Policy Committee analysis of the debt limit. The facts cannot be disputed except by the ignorant, the naive, and those not in good faith.

    http://www.bipartisanpolicy.org/library/staff-paper/debt-limit-analysis

    • TexasPatriot

      Visited the site at your link and completed the budget tool. Came up with $119B in fed spending for August – a $53B surplus with current projected revenues, $172B. My secret? abandoned the Socialist welfare spending and did not fund the numerous useless bloated depts and agencies that exist to regulate, harass, and tax our productive citizens, small businesses, and job creators into oblivion.

  • 45caliber

    And I wish the GOP would listen to him!

    I think the real reason many of the GOP wants to raise the debt limit is that they have all these pork projects they want to fund and they know if they have to balance the budget there won’t be any money for those projects.

    As far as I’m concerned, the government should NEVER have any pork projects. They should spend my money wisely only on things that are critical and necessary … such as the military. I don’t think a new park somewhere is critical even if it is named after the Congressman who got the funding for it.

  • Tom

    I thought OB said he was going to cut the pork. The people/institutions I owe money to don’t know if I am
    in insolvent as long as they get their payments. Why should the government be any different. As long as we pay the debt on our loans the government is solvent in the eyes of the world. We will have parts of the government that will be underfunded but if OB line item each bill that needs to be paid we can get thru this. Pain yes but we will not be in defalt to other countries. How does OB think all the unimployeed handle their bills…

  • JeffH

    Ron Paul is leading the charge with a petition: Please sign the petition to your representative and senators DEMANDING that they reject Senator Mitch McConnell’s scheme to raise the debt limit with no real spending cuts. The petition also demands they oppose any other business as usual compromise and instead join me in signing the “Cut, Cap, and Balance” pledge right away.

    Debt Ceiling Betrayal Petition to: My Representative and Senators

    Whereas: Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell has developed a plan to pass increases in the debt ceiling automatically with no real spending cuts; and

    Whereas: Under this scheme, the debt limit will be raised automatically three times in this Congress alone, handing the Executive Branch even more power; and

    Whereas: Should such a plan succeed, this will represent a betrayal to the American people who overwhelmingly voted for Republicans to cut spending and stand up to President Obama;

    Therefore: I demand that you stand up to the political establishment by rejecting this and any other business as usual compromise on the debt ceiling. Instead, I urge you to join Ron Paul in signing the “Cut, Cap, and Balance” pledge immediately if you have not yet done so.

    SIGN THE RON PAUL “Debt Ceiling Betrayal” PETITION
    http://www.ronpaul2012.com/pages/debtceilingbetrayal2.html?pid=0712

    • Dan az

      Jeff
      All ready done!But by the looks of it we may be the only ones left that will.What the hell happened to common sense?Did I wake up this morning in another dimension?I can’t believe what I’m seeing here today.Maybe I should go back to bed and try again!

      • JeffH

        Brother Dan, Obama and all of the “Big Government” supporters just continue to use “fear” as their most potent weapon and you can see by some of the comments that Karolyn and a few others have made are more concerned about getting their next SS check than doing what’s right for the health of this country. It’s very obvious that Obama’s “scare tactics” are still effective on those that are understandably challenged.

        My primary income is my monthly SS check too, but because I do understand the mentality of the entitlement community I’m willing to gamble my SS payments and fight for the future of this country for the long term. Short term gains just aren’t an option where GOD and COUNTRY are concerned.

        • mark

          Right, Washington constantly uses scare tactics to get what it wants. That’s how Bush/Cheney got the Patriot Act through that compromised so many of our rights – through fear and scare tactics. That’s how they sold their Iraq War disaster through fear of a “mushroom cloud” and the famous Weapons of Mass Destruction that they somehow never found. And now the current president is ratcheting up the fear machine as well. The obvious reason they do so is because it works. It worked wonderfuly for Bush/Cheney and I have little doubt that it will work for Obama. Look at this website. Look at all political websites right or left. They are all have one thing in common, they are based on irrational, exaggerated fears. That is what drives American Politics and has for centuries. A calamity is coming! Our nation is in peril! Our economy is finished! Our society is doomed! Especially during economic downturns like this one or during national emergencies. The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling. And millions quiver. Why should the politicians stop doing it when it always works!

          • Karolyn

            Absolutely right! If there was not so much fear, the economy could recover much faster. Look at the stock market. There’s a bad piece of news, and it drops. Where are the people with cujones? I hear a lot of brave talk on this site about guns, blood and rebellion. Are those same people supporting the economy? Or are they hoarding their money? On the ABC News series “Made in America”, it is said that if each American spent an extra $3.33 on American-made products every year, it would result in 10,000 new jobs. Anybody who wants to see Made in America products go to http://abcnews.go.com/WN/MadeInAmerica/

          • 45caliber

            Karolyn:

            You might want to try to find any “made in America” products! The regulations the government has made has driven most of the companies somewhere else or out of business. Try finding any item of clothing with a “made in America” tag. “American” companies like Ford or GM actually get most of their stuff made elsewhere.

          • Karolyn

            45 – That’s why I posted the link. They are in Seattle this week and finding all kinds of Made in America.

          • eddie47d

            They have already given up Karolyn or simply don’t care. I’ve seen that for 30 years or more and it’s coming from both sides. (Not buying American) The corporates have demanded a worldwide structure and it is here in full bloom. The corporates are taking advantage of all this bitching and bellyaching so they can sneak their schemes(out sourcing,off shoring,fewer taxes,lax pollution controls,bending regulations and so forth) under the radar. The USA is for bargain shopping corporates and the deals are plentiful. Come one come all before it is all gone.Make millions and never break a sweat. The new American dream!

          • Al Sieber

            Karolyn, you still don’t get it do you? until you take the time to research the Fed. Reserve you’ll never understand, the jobs aren’t coming back.

    • Al Sieber

      Jeff, already did it also.

      • JeffH

        Kudos Al.

  • http://msn Kerri

    Here’s another idea,everyone keeps talking about share sacrafice. How about the 50% of Americans who pay no Fed. income tax start paying something. I don’t care how much but if you live here you should have to pay something. Not fair for 1/2 of Americans paying all the taxes for the other 1/2 who don’t

    • mark

      Of the current 47% of Americans who do not pay federal income tax (they do of course pay sales and many state and city taxes) nearly 90% are unemployed or earning incomes so low they are exempt from income taxes under the George W. Bush 2002 tax cuts that are still in effect for all U.S. income tax brackets today. The remaining 10% or so are estimated to be people who work “under the table” or outside the income tax payroll system. This would include criminals, prostitutes, drug dealers, illegal aliens, and lot of U.S citizens who have jobs in the so-called “underground economy” who are paid in cash. It is virtually impossible to get money from any of these people, you can’t squeeze blood from a stone with the unemployed and homeless. And as for “under the table workers” and criminals, they are outside the sytstem, the federal gov’t doesn’t know who most of them are, where they live, or what they make. Lots of small businessmen and women also “skim” a significant part of their income in cash and never report it. This is one of the advantages of owning a small business, though their are also lots of disadvantages also, long hours, high risks, and annoying regulations. But even this relative small-scale skimming is peanuts compared to the way the very wealthy shelter lots of their income and wealth through loopholes and tax lawyers. As Warren Buffet famously noted a couple of years ago, his secretary paid a higher percentage of her income in taxes than he did even though he earned and held wealth several thousands times higher than her. This is quite common for the affluent in America. While they pay what appears to be a considerable amount of the overall collected income tax, they have lots of ways to shelter much of their income and wealth that the average wage-earner does not.

  • Bert Cundle

    A Republician, Liberal, from Texas… THAT’S SCARRY!

    • Dan az

      Bert
      How do you even breath with your head up there dosen’t it stink?

      • Al Sieber

        Good one Dan, can’t top that one.

      • Bert Cundle

        If truth Stinks… Blame God!

  • chuckb

    raising the debt ceiling will only put our country deeper in debt, this is insane, this is why some people never get out of debt and you might say is pure ignorance. we are watching a stage play in wash.dc. you have a bunch of cowardly politicians (republicans) trying to pass a smoke and mirrors bill (ryans budget), a cave in to barry. why should we allow these politicians to borrow more money so barry can go on another spending spree, more fed. employees, more regulatory agencies and he gets elected in 2012 by a nation full of idiots.
    get on the phone and call your congressman, demand they do not raise the debt. ceiling. raising tax on the wealthy is raising tax on our small business, this is our bread and butter, this is our job creators. if the debt ceiling is raised we will be paying the increase in tax, not the the so called wealthy, they will just pass it along to us. they will not increase their hiring, in fact it will probably hurt employment
    democrats by nature don’t understand this, they have the union
    mentality, soak the rich, well folks you might say we are the rich, we are the ones who get soaked in the end.

  • JeffH

    Gotta just love the Demo/liberal/progressive/Marxist/communist talking point about the mythical “Rich Don’t Pay Their Fair Share”.

    Perhaps one of the most common myths (or lies, depending on how you look at at it), is the idea the “rich don’t pay their fair share”. But is this true?

    The Federal Government published a CBO Paper titled Effective Federal Tax Rates Under Current Law, 2001-2014. On Table 2 (page 18 of the PDF) “Effective Federal Tax Rates” under “Share of Total Federal Tax Liabilities” heading shows some interesting results. Taxes paid by highest incomes
    •The top 1% pay 22.7% of taxes.
    •The top 10% pay 50% of taxes.
    •The top 20% pay 65.3% of taxes.
    •The top 40% pay 84.3% of taxes.

    Taxes paid by lowest incomes
    •The bottom 20% pay 1.1% of taxes.
    •The bottom 40% pay 6.1% of taxes.

    The bottom 40% pay about 6% of taxes, while the top 40% pay about 85% of taxes — or about 14 times more than their counterparts in the lower brackets. But in light of the constant droning “the rich don’t pay their fair share”.

    Progressive taxation is not inherently wrong, but taken too far it’s socialist income redistribution, which is legalized theft. Asking one minority group to shoulder the burden almost exclusively is discrimination and unethical. Those blessed financially have an obligation to help others, but when the top 40% pay almost all the taxes, isn’t that enough?

    Everyone has a stake in needs and functions of government, so everyone should pay. Once you’ve removed huge sections of people from paying anything, what incentive do they have to demand controlled spending? None. After that, they’ll always vote for the candidate who gives them the most handouts — after all, they’re not paying for it.

    Consider the following comment about democracy:
    It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess of the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. (This quote has been attributed to both Sir Alex Fraser Tytler and Alexis de Tocqueville.)

    So for those who believe the rich don’t pay their “fair share”, how much is enough? If you designed the tax system, who would pay what? With the top 40% shouldering 85% of the burden, how much more would you ask them to pay? And how many in the lower brackets would you exempt? Or do those claiming the rich don’t pay enough really want socialist income redistribution?
    -copied from: Constitutional Conservatism A Return to Sanity

    • Dan az

      Bro take a bow!!!well done! ;)

    • mark

      But none of these statistics touch upon the vast amounts of income and wealth that the upper classes shelter with loopholes and tax lawyers. Or the fact that they pay a LOWER PERCENTAGE of their income in taxes than the working class and the middle class do despite their overall percentage contribution to revenue collected. That is why much of your statistics are misleading. Warren Buffet admitted himself that he pays a much lower percentage of his income than his secretary does even though he earns several thousand times more than she does. Many of these bank, hedge fund and stock fund managers pay themselves in stock that is only taxed at 15% while a coal miner pays 25% of his income in federal taxes. Your table fails to take into account the vast amount of sheltered income that the wealthy enjoy which an average wage earner never can. The wealthy are doing better and better in this country under the current tax regime despite the high percentage of the overall income tax revenues that they contribute because they can “hide” huge amounts of their income and wealth legally in ways the average American never can. In 1980 the top 1% held $11 trillion in overall wealth. Today they hold $41 trillion in inflation adjusted overall wealth – a near four fold increase! In 1980, the top 1% earned 11% of the overall national income, today they earn 24%. And best they have conservatives like yourself, who probably only makes a modest income, to “carry their water” for them in the way of these misleading statistics that their Tink Tanks churn out. And as for those in the lower brackets, they pay other taxes besides the federal income tax (sales, property, city, state, and county fees). In fact the poor, the working class and lower middle class pay the highest tax of all – far higher than any you have cited and far higher than Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Warren Buffet will ever pay with all their billions – they send their sons and daughters to die in Iraq and Afghanistan – unlike the wealthy in this country who send their sons and daughters to Stanford, Duke, and the Ivy League universities. This is the HIGHEST TAX OF ALL, that the poor, the working class, and the lower middle class pay everyday – a tax the rich will NEVER PAY. They will earn enormous profits off these wars but they will NEVER SEND THEIR SONS AND DAUGHTERS TO FIGHT IN THEM.

      • 45caliber

        That is why the rich support politicians. The politicians then pass tax loopholes for the rich so they don’t have to pay the taxes. And the Dems are more guilty of this than the GOP is. Look it up.

        And most of these tax loopholes require you to have so much money that even if you know about them you can’t use them if you aren’t rich.

      • JeffH

        mark, until the corruption in DC is stopped nothing will change. It’s not the uber rich that are the enemy here, contrary to what you may belive and what the Dems/progressives would like you to believe, it the corruption in our politics that has created and supported our countries demise.

        • JeffH

          FYI, when I say “corruption in our politics” that means both parties.

          • eddie47d

            Check out coal miners thread Jeff that will answer your question “how much should the rich be taxed”. Apparently not near enough (trend reverses) and they are scamming you too. You want proof but never accept the truth and automatically go into you marxist/commie speech. You don’t see the discrepancies of the wealthy because you are too busy defending their power to do so.( they are not squeaky clean or always patriotic) You can talk about the Elites until you are blue in the face and I will agree with you but you always overlook the rest of the rich as if what they do is appropriate.

          • JeffH

            eddie says baaaaa, baaaaa, baaaa…again.

          • eddie47d

            The shadow boxer and his false accusations or laziness this time, so what else would you expect from Herr Jeff!

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner
      • Karolyn

        Good article, Coal!

      • JeffH

        Most of the data cited in the article are red herrings. The author jumps between including and excluding non-taxpayers, to fit whatever point he is trying to make. Actually, the reason why most of the numbers cited make no sense, is because both parties have created a huge and growing “entitlement class” that don’t work, because they don’t want to work. Non-taxpayers are increasing, not because of taxes, but because they have learned that if they don’t work, the government will take care of them.

        To further spin his argument, the author found it necessary to include things like Social Security and unemployment insurance/payroll tax, in order to inflate the numbers. FACT: Social Security is YOUR money. It’s YOUR retirement funds. It’s NOT a tax. Similarly, unemployment insurance is money that is there to insure YOU against unemployment. Again, it’s NOT a tax.

    • TexasPatriot

      Eloquently stated, and spot on as well.

  • Hal

    I have a solution to illegals using our ERs for free healthcare. ICE needs to start working with the hospitals and require proof of citizenship when asked to provide free healthcare and if no proof can be provided then give them the free treatment followed by immediate deportation back home. Problem solved. Do that for a month and the only illegals you will see in the ERs will be serious trauma cases.

    • Dan az

      Hal
      That reminds me of a cheech and chong movie when the INS was called in to bus the married couple and relatives back home after the wedding! :)

    • 45caliber

      This reminds me of a guy’s comment several years ago. He said he had a INS patch on a cap. Every time he had to go to the emergency room, he’d wear it. He said within ten minutes that about 90% of those waiting would decide they didn’t need emergency care after all so he could get in quickly.

      • Dan az

        45
        Your killing me stop it!
        I’m going to start wearing a hat that’s like having card blanche here.Why didn’t I think of that? :)

        • JeffH

          I wear a US Border Patrol hat now and then. It’s made some people a little uneasy at times too.

          • Dan az

            Brother Jeff
            Its not the hat you wear its your stature. :)

      • Bert Cundle

        The real shame is… Not feared any more; its laughed at like a funny joke!

  • ONTIME

    R. Paul is a seasoned veteran of the fiscal wars on the economy, he knows from whence he speaks and if we do not approcach this debt with the intent of Cap, cut, repeal and stop spending then we are going to be owned lock, stock and barrel by a foreign entity and become a second rate nation overnight. The world will be better off and we will have made a resolute move to stop our indulgent spoiled ways of allowing know nothing elites to run our lives and steal from our pocket book, we have to relearn Yankee Ingenuity and self reliance to regain our independence and keep our future in check…Time to change the way our elected officials hold office and cut off their money supply.

  • Nancy Barnett

    Karolyn
    Let me put this in perspective. You are a student who studies hard and earns a GP of 3.8 but only need 2.5 to pass. You have more than enough to pass, so why not give the remaining 1.3 GP to those students who have played around, partied and slept through classes just because they need 2.5 to pass. It’s the same thing with the “rich”. Yes, they may have more money than the govenment thinks they “need” (excluding Obama, Pelosi, Soro, Reed etc), they worked hard and earned it and they spend it. Why should they be forced by the government to give what they worked hard for to someone that has played around, partied, slept in and done nothing to earn a living???? That’s royally STUPID!
    LivingonTulsatime

    • Karolyn

      I like the story someone told me about the Quakers, who were hard-working people who would create large gardens and “put up” food for the winter to keep them going. People who had not worked as hard would come to the Quakers in the winter for handouts, and the Quakers never begrudged those people a handout just because they were fellow human beings. People like that are much happier than those who hoard what they have.

      • 45caliber

        Karolyn:

        They gave the items because they had plenty for themselves as well. And I will do the same – when I have plenty. The problem I have is that there are many people telling me I MUST give to others even if I don’t have enough for myself and my family. Further, they tell me how much I have to give.

        • Karolyn

          The more you give; the more you get. “As ye give, so shall ye receive.”

          • TexasPatriot

            spoken from the mouth of a determined taker

          • 45caliber

            Ah! You believe in karma as well as the Bible, huh? In any case, the statement ment that you would receive after death. And I want my gifts to be freely given from me to someone who needs and deserves my help, not someone chosen by the government so they will vote they way the giver wants them to vote even though he uses my money. I’ve seen many on welfare driving a better car and having a better TV than I do.

          • Al Sieber

            Karolyn, how much do you give? and how much have you given?

      • JeffH

        Karolyn, the Quakers make the choice to share, that’s in their belief. They’re not forced to share are they? Charity comes from the heart and shouldn’t be forced, by government or anybody else. The idea of “redistribution of wealth” is not charitable in the least and is pure thievery of the highest degree..

        • eddie47d

          First of all you have to have a heart.

          • JeffH

            …which is something you obviously know nothing about…

          • eddie47d

            Go shoot another Mexican coming across the border Jeff. You lost the match over a year ago.

    • 45caliber

      Nancy:

      I agree with you. Too bad Karolyn seemed to miss your point.

      I will help others when I have plenty and they don’t. But I have little interest in someone telling me I MUST give to help others – particularly when I see that those others have better clothing and better possessions than I can afford to give my family.

      It’s like the Gift Trees at Christmas. The first year they came out, I took a name and gave the gifts without a problem. And I’m certain the person who received it appreciated it.

      But the next year at the local grocery store I saw several teens going to the office to fill out cards for themselves. They were wearing new designer clothing and $200+ shoes. I took a look at the cards – every one asked for things like PlayStations, expensive shoes, etc.

      The office where I work always asks for money about Christmas to “provide what the children have asked for at Christmas” each year. The kids are teens from a place that puts troubled youths. All they want are things they can immediately sell at school so they can have the money to buy more drugs.

      I don’t give to such things any more.

      • Karolyn

        I do get it 45. I guess I just get frustrated with greedy people. If there were more like Buffett and Gates, this would be a better place. I guess they (Buffett and Gates) dont need to wait for the gov’t to raise their taxes and can just write checks. However, I think they feel that all of their peers should shoulder the burden and give back to the country that made them wealthy.

        • http://www.morpix.biz/gates(adopted) Dave Wilber

          See what Gates plans for the “common herd” http://www.morpix.biz/gates

          • JeffH

            Dave Wilber, there are several here that recognize the evilness of the Gates Foundation and their ties and beliefs of eugenics and the use of vaccines as a method to achieve their goal of world depopulation.

          • Dan az

            Dave W
            Yep and I’m one of them.Hey look there’s muslim obumer watching me above!:)Sorry its the meds!

          • Al Sieber

            Dave W, you got that right.

        • 45caliber

          Karolyn:

          Both Buffet and Gates were considered to be greedy for many years. In some places they still are. But they wouldn’t have gotten as rich as they are without being “greedy”. And they certainly wouldn’t have been able to do as much good as they can and do now if they hadn’t.

        • Jay

          Gates is evil in-carnate! Karolyn, give your head a shake girl!

      • JeffH

        Nancy, thank you for a simple yet great analogy and post. I agree fully with what you and 45caliber just posted.

      • eddie47d

        Caliber; I don’t agree with Nancy because I don’t see the wealthy Earning their wealth. The system is broken and they are robbing the piggy bank as much if not more than permanent welfare recipiants.

        • JeffH

          eddie, who are these wealthy people you talk down about so often?
          Who are “THEY”?

          • eddie47d

            How many times do I have to list them? You know dang well who I’m referring too or were you out of class on those days.

          • Jay

            Jeff, obviously eddie has never provided the list. Or perhaps, I missed the professor’s lecture that day as well.

          • JeffH

            Jay, we both know eddie has never provided anything, especially anything os substance…

            OH, wait…he’s mentioned the Koch Brothers multiple times…does that count as a list of “they”?

    • mark

      Yes but the problem with this analogy is that most of the rich in this country were born rich. They did not earn their wealth; they inherited it. And most working class and lower middle class people in this country do not drink, party, and sleep in class; they work hard to pay their bills and feed their kids. Right now millions of them are out of work THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN but due to this weak economy. Helping them in some small is our duty as fellow citizens – not allowing lazy, goof-offs to pass. This analogy which has been on dozens of blogs doesn’t hold up regarding the tough scenario many Americans face today

      • TexasPatriot

        mark, help them all you want. give til it bleeds. just let me keep the pittance i earn which is woefully inadequate to support my hungry children.

        • JeffH

          mark, just like eddie sounds so jealous of others that have what they don’t have and have no problem with the idea of redistributing another wealth. They are the real thieves in my book.

          • eddie47d

            Always nice to hear from the shadow boxer Herr Jeff. I don’t envy the rich I despise some of them for taking advantage of our kind nation. I also despise permanent welfare recipiants who are too lazy to get off their butts. The Republicans allow the rich to rob us from one end and the Democrats allow the abusers on welfare to rob us from the other end. Sorry to burst your bubble Jeff but no envy.It comes down to right and wrong. Not everyone with money are thieves and not all people on welfare are lazy deadbeats either. Since you invoked my name I will tell you once again that not all the folks you despise are democraps/marxists/commie/thugs. That’s only in your messed up mind. Thank you

          • JeffH

            eddie, you aren’t bursting my bubble…you aren’t believed anyway…remember 9-0?

          • eddie47d

            Drip,Drip,Drip. Your plumbing is leaking and is flooding your mouth. Quick plunge it!

  • Warlord X

    FIRE THEM ALL!! We’ve got to figure a way to arrest, try, and convict everyone in all three branches( past especially, then present (with some slack for the ‘tea party’ recent elections) for malfeasance, conspiracy, and theft.

    An “Entitlement??? Says who?

    Remember, not only did you contribute to Social Security but your employer did too, BY LAW ENFORCEMENT. It totaled 15% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only 30K over your working life, that’s close to $220,500. If you calculate the future value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer’s contribution) at a simple 5% (less than what the govt pays on the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working (me) you’d have $892,919.98. If you took out only 3% per year, you receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years, and that’s with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit! If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you’d have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month. The folks in Washington have pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madhoff ever had. Foot Note : in 1964 President Linden Johnson Put Social Security into the General Fund & took it out of the LOCK BOX. In 1993, Pres Bill Clinton made Social Security taxable. You pay tax on 85% of S.S.

    Entitlement my ass , I paid cash for my social security insurance!!!! Just because they borrowed the money,doesn’t make my benefits some kind of charity or handout!! Congressional benefits, aka. Free healthcare , outrageous retirement packages , 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days, now THAT’S welfare, and they have the nerve to call my retirement entitlements.

    What the H*LL’s wrong???

    Tuesday’s Daily Bulletin paper, ran two articles on the front page side by side:

    1. Calif’s 20 Billion Dollar Budget Deficit

    2. The Calif Supreme Court ruling that ILLEGALS can attend college and get benefits. Why don’t they just deport them when they arrive to register?

    3. Last year they ran an article on the yearly costs to Calif Taxpayers from Illegal’s using Hospital Emergency Rooms for their general health care – At just one hospital the cost to tax payers totaled over 25 million a year!!!

    Someone please tell me what the H*LL’s wrong with all the people that run this country!!!!!!

    We’re “broke” & can’t help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless etc.,???????????

    In the last months we have provided aid to Haiti , Chile , and Turkey . And now Pakistan, protected home of bin Laden. Literally, BILLIONS of DOLLARS!!!

    Our retired seniors living on a ‘fixed income’ receive no aid nor do they get any breaks(and a constantly reduced inflation adjustment) while our government and religious organizations pour Hundreds of Billions of $$$$$$’s and Tons of Food to Foreign Countries!

    They call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives and now when its time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow from it in the first place?

    We have hundreds of adoptable children who are shoved aside to make room for the adoption of foreign orphans mostly due to incomprehensible bureaucratic, administrative rules and regulation that require a lawyer and years to satisfy.

    AMERICA: a country where we have homeless without shelter, children going to bed hungry, elderly going without ‘needed’ meds, and mentally ill without treatment -etc,etc.

    YET………………….
    They have a ‘Benefit’ for the people of Haiti on 12 TV stations, ships and planes lining up with food, water, tents clothes, bedding, doctors and medical supplies.

    Imagine if the *GOVERNMENT* gave ‘US’ the same support they give to other countries.

    SAD? DISGUSTED?

    YEAH, OK, SO WHEN DO WE GET PISSED ENOUGH AND
    DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?????

    • TexasPatriot

      Been there for some time. Just constantly seeking more effective ways to ‘do something about it’.

    • 45caliber

      Warlord X:

      As far as foreign aid is concerned, I saw a list some years ago of all the countries of the world and how much we gave them. There were only TWO that we didn’t give money too. One was 640 acres (1 square mile) in size; the other was 128 acres. We could have balanced the budget then by stopping those payments. We might be able to do that now.

      • Dan az

        45
        I think that country was an island in the pacific and they deported them to another island so they good make it a base!

        • 45caliber

          Dan:

          One country is the one where Monte Carlo is; the other is in the mountains between Spain and Portugal and they make their money by smuggling.

      • mark

        This is totally ludicrous. The United States gave away $37 billion in foreign aid in 2010. That is less than 1% of our $3.8 trillion budget. If you cut all of U.S. foreign aid tomorrow, something I would definitely be in favor of, especially foreign aid to Israel the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid, this would cut our $1.4 trillion dollar annual deficit to a $ 1.363 trillion deficit. Whenever pollsters ask the American people how much of the federal budget goes to foreign aid the average answer they give is 25% but the reality is 1%. This total reality disconnect has been going on for decades and never changes. People believe what they want to believe and the actual numbers mean nothing to them.

        • 45caliber

          Does that include all the money Oblama keeps giving away as he visits around the world? How about all the money the World Bank “loans” (at no interest or requirement to repay) that is provided by the US? How about the “charities” that the government pays for that gives money to other governments to help hide our government’s involvement?

    • mark

      Warlord X, you’re wrong. President Ronald Reagan (who also tripled the national debt in 8 years – from $900 billion nat’l debt in 1981 to $2.6 trillion nat’l debt in 1989 – Office of Management and Budgtet stats) signed the provision in 1983 to tax Social Security benefits. Not President Bill Clinton in 1993. It was conservative Republican President Ronald Reagan who signed the legislation to tax Social Security retirees. Ronald also enthusiastically supported and signed the giant illegal immigration amnesty package in 1986. On foreign aid I would agree with much of what you say but you left someone important out – the largest single recipient of U.S. foreign aid – Israel. Cut them off without a dime! Israel is a thoroughly modern and prosperous country and yet they get more foreign aid than practically all the other poor countries we aid combined. This is an outrage to the U.S. taxpayer.

  • chuckb

    maybe some of these bleeding hearts should take a look at the money wasted by barry and michelle on their lavish life style before they start calling people greedy. what a winner, this guy lives the life of luxury and he will cut off ss checks unless he gets his way. he and michelle should be tarred and feathered then sent back to kenya. barry seems to have enough money to take care of the illegal population, are you welcome at the er if needed? you need not worry about payment or insurance, you can go to school at some others expense, you are welcome to have food stamps and your rent can be arranged, even a used cart can be thrown in, that is if you are illegal. this is part of the budget, barry needs to take care of all the foreign illegals, do those from somalia get their checks if the budget doesn’t pass?. barry needs these votes, this is liberalism at it’s finest, however, this isn’t what ;iberalism started out to be, this is the marxist way, this is your democratic party today. the sad part is there are many who agree with this and failed to see what happened in russia in 1917, the owners of the talking dummy know this.
    most of the people supporting the talking dummy are living off the government dole, or retired union workers,minorities or illegal.
    .

    • TexasPatriot

      … or just plain IDIOTS

  • Jay

    How about we negotiate to pay a portion of our debt, 30%, 40%, pay it, and close the case. This sort of thing happens everyday between creditors and delinquent borrowers, and usually after defaulting. Why not do the same with the national debt? What’s the difference? Or would the hideously crooked banking conglomerates prefer 0?

    • JeffH

      Jay, I just wanted to compliment you on your “handling” of bw in another thread.

      • Jay

        You mean booby wire? If so, thanks. Sadly, he didn’t play for long. He rather quickly took his ball and went home in a snit!

      • Jay

        Jeff, please, quit it. Your pics are starting to FREAK ME OUT!!! LOL!

        • JeffH

          Jay, if you ever want to create an avatar for this website, here is the link.

          http://en.gravatar.com/

          • Jay

            Jeff, I did, thanks for the link. However, I think the avatar I’m using seems a bit schmoltzy.

    • 45caliber

      Jay:

      I don’t think the banking groups are the loaners to us. Basically it’s other countries who buy our bonds and treasury notes so we’ll buy theirs.

      • Jay

        Your right 45, so we negotiate with the Federal Reserve to pay back 10% to 15%, maybe less, of the 40.6%. With the money we save we can buy back our treasury bills. We then cut the size of our government down to a third of present size, get rid of the Federal Reserve, pull out of the UN, fire up the coal mines, start drilling our own oil…yah, I know, wishful thinking. Thanks for the correction!

        40.6% of it is owed to the Federal Reserve (Which is Part Private Business and Part Federal) and government accounts.

        22.7% Is foreign and international – Countries like China, Japan, and the United Kingdom.

        The rest is owed to various individuals, corporations, and states.

  • bugsbunnymiller

    up untill the red sheilds got our country our money was worth something. now can anyone realy say what it is worth no can we audit the fed no can we see who thes offshore banks that run the fed are no. we need to go back to what this county was founded on and lets be real americans. with god given rights not gov rights why if no god and gov given rights then what they give they take away. and look at and stop our overseas policy. there is alot to say in that. when we fall and if we keep going in the same way it will happen. when that paper is just what it is paper and it takes a whole days wage to buy a lof of bread. our when tecnology takes your job. then the depopulation will be even easyer. they want that. but just keep watching mindless movies and keeping up with the smiths. oneday when it happens then no one will be stupid or to lazy to read there books that say what they are and want to do. Ron paul knows all this he is not bringing this up but he knows. and the controled media knows he knows.

  • http://copepajman@yahoo.com Joseph Monte

    We as American’s are living in times that our nations citizens have never seen or faced before, since our Founding Father’s took seats in Philadelphia in the early 1770′s. Today with the debauched, immoral leadership of the U.S. Congress, U.S. Senate, U.S. Executive and Judicial Branches, America faces complete “extinction” as a sovereign nation, and a thorough “unravelling” of what the Founding Father’s conceived 235 years ago!
    Three years ago the U.S. Comtroller of the Currency declared that “America’s #1 problem as a nation was our staggering public/private indebtedness that America owed to the international bankers. (Before the Obama $14.3 Trillion loan he pressured the Democratic controlled Congress borrow) the Comtroller said America owed the international private banks over $200,000,000,000,000.00 (200 trillion dollars), and THAT AMOUNT didn’t count the derivatives figures that had been advanced and brokered decades earlier!
    I wish I had the space to continue on as I convince everyone that I can as we live in this “life-threatening” moment, but I will have to continue on at another time…

  • Jay

    President Obama has said that he will not allow people-programs to be cut so that the wealthy can receive tax cuts because our nation is “better than that.” But what America is cannot be distinguished from its economy which exists merely to accumulate money. It’s why the maxim is let the buyer, not the vendor, beware. But in an equitable economy, no one would need to beware. No banker will ever be prosecuted for the banking practices that brought down the economy, because if such questioning were allowed, the entire basis of the “American way of life” would be called into question. An economy whose primary concern is not the welfare of the people it serves will always require the people to live and die for some non-human goal. People will be used just like worker ants, and no one will really care when they fail to return after being sent off to do their prescribed jobs. To be subordinated to some non-human purpose is to be expendable.

    Have you ever wondered about standard banking practices that seem to make no sense? Well, consider these:

    A bank will accept a car or house as collateral for a loan but not the furniture you just purchased using a bank-issued credit card. What does the bank know that you are not being told? Is it that the furniture is not worth nearly what you have just paid for it? If it were, wouldn’t it serve as collateral?

    Or this: a person goes to a bank and applies for a loan. S/he is asked to show that her/his debt to income ratio lies at or below one designated by the bank. Perhaps the debt cannot be more that 40 percent of income. Sometimes the bank claims that even lending at that ratio is risky, but is willing to grant the loan at an interest rate greater than what borrowers with better ratios can qualify for. The higher interest rate is supposed to compensate the bank for the risk.

    People have accepted this explanation for eons, but it can’t possibly be true. The higher interest rate is mathematically equivalent to reducing the borrower’s income which, in turn, increases the borrowers debt to income ratio and would disqualify her/him for a loan. Furthermore, the bank granting the loan has no control over the borrower after the loan has been granted. The borrower can, for instance, go out the next day and buy a car, utterly destroying the income and debt ratio s/he had presented to the bank. Nothing about this practice makes any logical sense. If the bankers were truly concerned about lowering the risk, the logical thing to do for a risky borrower would be to lower the interest rate, not increase it. So what is this charade all about?

    Applying for a mortgage involves the same practice but even more so, because mortgage lending yields huge profits. A mortgage lender’s profit is often 100 or more percent of the loan because of the way interest is calculated. But where did the formula that American banks use for calculating interest originate? The names of mathematicians are often associated with the formulas they invented or discovered. Remember the Pythagorean Theorem? But the formula used to calculate interest is named after no one. Was s/he ashamed of having devised it?

    In truth, an infinite number of formulas could be used for such calculations, so why is one and only one used in the U.S.? After all, when Moses descended Mt. Sinai toting engraved stone tablets, the formula for calculating interest was not inscribed on any of them. But the answer can be found by looking at the essence of lending and borrowing.

    In centuries past, philosophers wrote much about essences. Not so anymore. But revealing essences uncovers things about concepts that are otherwise kept hidden. For instance, the essence of lending/borrowing is very simple The following three examples reveal it:

    (1) A neighbor asks to borrow a cup of sugar. The lender supplies it, the borrower uses it while baking, directly satisfying a human need, and later returns an equivalent amount of sugar to the lender. (2) A neighbor asks to borrow a lawnmower. The lender supplies it, the borrower uses it to mow his lawn and later returns it to the lender. (3) A coworker who has left his wallet at home asks to borrow ten dollars for lunch. The lender supplies it, and the borrower buys lunch with it and later returns ten dollars to the lender. These are examples of ordinary, everyday, lending and borrowing.

    The essence of this concept consists of four things: a lender, a borrower, something that passes back and forth between them that directly serves a real human purpose, and the lender retains ownership of the thing lent. The lender exacts no premium (fee, profit) for having made the loan. It is a simple transaction between one human being and another in order to enable one to satisfy a human need that would otherwise have gone unsatisfied.

    When bankers engage in a practice they call lending, the practice is completely different and has a different purpose. Bankers always exact a premium, a fee. What bankers do is really a form of renting; it is not lending, and the way the amount of rent is calculated is really troublesome.

    The three ordinary cases of lending mentioned above can easily be altered to fir the banker’s case: The amount to be repaid equals the amount lent plus interest). In the ordinary examples above, the premium (interest) equals zero. But the premium is determined in different ways in different countries or for different types of loans. (See economist Tim Madden’s most revealing article.) In fact, the way banks in the U.S. calculate mortgage interest is illegal in Great Britain because the stated interest rate is deceptively lower that the actual interest rate being charged.

    Continued: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24539

  • Dan az

    Jay
    I fell like i just got out of economics 101.Except that you put it together allot better then I remembered.Thanks

    • Dan az

      As you can see I failed at typing!

      • Jay

        Thanks Dan, hey, check out this article I found. A little gem.

        Bill Gates-Knight in Tarnished Armor

        Whenever I start my Compaq Presario, I’m greeted with a Windows copyright notice 1981-2001. That means that Microsoft has been working on this operating system for at least 25 years and hasn’t gotten it right yet. Shortly after I purchased this computer, I had to start downloading and installing patchesoh, excuse me, service packs. Service Pak 1 was supposed to plug the security holes in my version of Windows XP. Shortly thereafter, I had to download and install Service Pak 2 in order to plug the security holes in Service Pak 1. Now theres Security Pak 3. I downloaded it, but it will not install. The failure message tells me to send a message to support by clicking a displayed link and that a service technician would respond within 48 hours. That message was sent at least 2 weeks ago, but no response has ever arrived. Perhaps this service desk has been offshored to Timbuktu!

        So think about it. Microsoft has been making fortunes selling houses with broken windows and un-lockable back doors. Amazing!

        I don’t know how many employees Microsoft pays, but I know of millions who not only work for free, they pay Microsoft for the privilege. What? Yes, think about it. How much time have you spent downloading and installing patches? Remember, time is money, and Internet access is not free. You see, we are all unpaid Microsoft technicians. Add to this what you have spent buying applications to exterminate the vermin that sneaks through the back doors. No wonder Bill Gates is the richest man in America. I wonder just how rich he would if he had to reimburse all of us for our expenses and pay us just the minimum wage for our time.

        What would you do if you went to a clothier and bought a suit or dress for several hundred dollars only to discover later that some of the seams were not sewn tightly. And when you returned it to the store, the clerk handed you a needle and a spool of thread and told you to fix it yourself. Would you smile graciously and say, thank you, or would you be mad as hell? Yet that is exactly what Microsoft does all the time. The soul of Phineas Taylor Barnum is dancing on his grave.

        Bill Gates is a phenomenon. He makes the Robber Barons of the nineteenth century and the gangsters of the Roaring Twenties look like veritable Papal saints. He is an unrecognized magician of genius. While sitting in Redmond, he can pull the wool over the eyes of millions of people world-wide. He could probably triple his fortune if he took his act to Las Vegas as a replacement for Siegfried and Roy.

        Yet we admire this man. He is role-model for businessmen everywhere. We extol his charity even as he puts his name to the aphorism, philanthropists give away what they should be giving back. Oh, how we love him, and oh, how we hate doing it. (3/3/2005)

  • Jay

    How to Make Solving Problems Impossible

    Last week President Obama ordered the closing of the detention camp at Guantanamo Bay and numerous obstacles to doing it were quickly brought up. What is to be done with the enemy combatants detained? They can’t be transferred to the American legal system to be tried, because the evidence against them was illegally obtained. They can’t be released because they would return to their terrorist activities. They can’t be sent to other countries because no other country wants to admit them. So if they can’t be sent to other countries, transferred to the American legal system, or released, the camp can’t be closed. So the order to close the detention camp is effectively nullified.

    The American political system has made a practice of making it impossible to solve its social problems. For decades, Americans have unsuccessfully fought a “war on drugs.” Why has it failed? To win it, America must secure its borders, a difficult task even with the cooperation of all Americans. The border is huge. But securing it becomes impossible if American self-interest groups oppose it. To win the “war on drugs,” the border must be secured, but securing it would prevent American businesses from profiting from the labor of illegal immigrants, and, of course, American politicians don’t want to do anything to alienate their commercial supporters. Policy nullified!

    Americans want to reduce the cost of medical care and make it available to all residents, but American politicians don’t want to diminish the profits of the businesses that run up the costs. Policy nullified!

    There is a pattern in these examples. Burden a proposed policy with contradictory goals and the policy can not be effective even if enacted. That’s what happens in a two-ideologically-based-party system, and as a result, America has not solved a major social problem in more than half a century. What better definition of a failed state is there?

    The detention camp at Guantanamo Bay can be closed. If Americans can pick up detainees in foreign countries and fly them to Cuba, Americans can fly them back to where they were picked up. Will some of them return to their “terrorist” activities? Of course. What would anyone’s attitude toward those who illegally imprisoned and tortured them be? But the number is small, about five hundred. The organizations that are engaged in anti-American actions around the world recruit far more than that number every time American bombs, missiles, and bullets kill ordinary people, especially women and children.

    All that is necessary to solve a social problem is to ensure that the policy’s goals are consistent.

    http://www.jkozy.com/How_to_Make_Solving_Problems_Impossible.htm

  • BUCK CROSBY

    We have the money to send everyones checks out on schedule , and with proper cuts elswhere we will continue to send them out , unless Obama or his pets like Geithner give the order not to . It is all a matter of prioritizing . If the debt ceiling is raised a dime we have lost and will collapse as a country . If we hold to our guns we may still collapse but will rapidly recover as the great republic our founders gifted us with .

  • OB1

    FYI:
    Rep. Paul has served 12 terms in Congress and is chairman of the House Financial Services Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology. He previously ran for president in 1988 and 2008, and on Tuesday announced he will retire from Congress when his current term runs out and will focus on his presidential campaign.

    In an exclusive interview with Newsmax.TV, Paul was asked what brought him to the decision to retire.

    “One of the major reasons was I didn’t want to run for two offices and one time,” he explains.

    “I didn’t want two campaigns. I did that before and I think it deserved some criticism. So I decided that I’m going to concentrate on the presidential race.

    “The campaign is going very well. People are listening to my noninterventionist foreign policy, listening to my views on the Federal Reserve.

    “I’m also at a point where I’m not that anxious to stay in the Congress right at this moment.”

    Mitch McConnell, leader of the Senate Republicans, has proposed giving President Barack Obama the power to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling because the consequences of failing to raise it are too great.

    Asked if that constitutes capitulating or is a good idea, Paul responds: “We are capitulating. I think it’s terrible. It should be Congress’ responsibility” and Congress should not give “this authority to the president to raise the debt limit.

    “So far everybody I’ve talked to has been annoyed by it, mostly the conservatives. I don’t think it’s going to work. I do think, however, that somehow or other they will raise the debt limit by making some promises that people will fall into the trap of believing.”

    Paul said he would vote against McConnell’s proposal “and any effort to raise the debt limit, because that’s been the problem. We just permit the Congress to spend and never do what they have to do, and that is cut back.”

    The solution to the debt crisis, he adds, “to cut spending, an across-the-board cut. Pretend it’s not much of a problem and keep raising the debt limit and keep spending and keep running up the debt, eventually it’s going to end very badly, and that is with a dollar crisis. I’m afraid we’re going to end up with that instead of coming to our senses and cutting back, because politically it’s so difficult.”

    The federal government, he adds, is already “destroying the value of the dollar.”

    Paul says President Obama’s warning that seniors on Social Security could suffer if the debt ceiling is not raised by August 2 is merely a “scare tactic. I think what Social Security has on hand can last quite a while. They’re not going to stop sending the checks out. The cash is there to take care of a good many months.”

    Paul discussed the possible fallout in next year’s elections if Republicans do agree to only modest spending cuts and perhaps even to a tax increase.

    “If it involves tax increases it would be very, very bad for the Republicans and those who supported it,” he tells Newsmax.

    “I think it depends on the economy, and the economy’s getting weaker. No matter what we do the people are going to be pretty upset.

    “But right now all we’re dealing with in Washington is the blame game. Who’s at fault. Is it all Obama’s fault or is it something Republicans did in the past?

    “I think it’s what Republicans and Democrats and many many administrations have done for a good many years — accepting the principles of central economic planning and a monetary system that encourages this type of behavior, as well as a foreign policy that gets us involved in these wars constantly. And they never seem to end.

    “That’s what the real problem is, and until we change that attitude I don’t see how we can get a handle on what’s happening.”

    Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said Wednesday morning that the Fed stands ready to respond with more stimulus if needed. Commenting on the announcement, Paul says: “Same old. It’s his only tool. In a weak economy you print money, you run up debt, you try to get people to spend money, which is the exact opposite of what we need.

    “Eventually printing all this money will get people to quit buying our debt.”
    Paul also tells Newsmax: “If we were serious here in Washington and wanted to live within the budget rules and the debt limit, we could do that, and hopefully within a year we’d solve our problems.

  • http://BobLivingston DandyDO

    There will be no justice to either rich or poor unless we reach an agreement. There will be no more middle class,either. So, do we want to support the poor, burgeoning jobless masses, and do we want to deter corporations who provide these jobs from getting the tax break they need to be motivated to stay here in the US? Without an agreement, will there be uprisings and totally ineffective government?
    All sides of the table must be willing to compromise to keep our nation solvent.

  • chuckb

    ron paul has my respect, he has it right and people better listen to him. the talking dummy in the white house is an imposter and we are watching the greatest con game in history taking place.

    • http://None Era- Nick

      The “imposter” is now in the bunker (Hitler April 1945) but will he take all of his trusted staff with him? Then China can start a Marshall Plan for America…

      Saludos from Mexico

  • http://contributor.yahoo.com/user/165033/larrwayne.html LarrWayne

    Ron Paul 2012 may be the last hope for a free country to survive.

    • Bert Cundle

      Free Country? Compared too… England – France – China – Iceland – The Carribian Islands – Mexico – Do they have 10,000 laws?

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