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Romney Refuses To Sign Pro-Life Pledge

June 22, 2011 by  

Romney Refuses To Sign Pro-Life Pledge

The Susan B. Anthony List, a pro-life political action committee, recently asked Republican Presidential hopefuls to pledge to advance the anti-abortion movement if elected President. Five candidates seeking the 2012 GOP nod have signed the Pro-Life Leadership Presidential Pledge,” but Mitt Romney is not among them.

Representative Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, Representative Ron Paul (R-Texas), former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty and former Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania have all signed the pledge.

The pledge states that the candidate, if elected, would only nominate judges to the United States Supreme Court and Federal benches “who are committed to restraint and applying the original meaning of the Constitution,” select Pro-life Cabinet members and advance pro-life legislation while in office.

“As much as I share the goals of the Susan B. Anthony List, its well-meaning pledge is overly broad and would have unintended consequences. That is why I could not sign it,” Romney explained in a blog on his website. “It is one thing to end federal funding for an organization like Planned Parenthood; it is entirely another to end all federal funding for thousands of hospitals across America.”

“I am pro-life and believe that abortion should be limited to only instances of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother,” Romney wrote. “If I have the opportunity to serve as our nation’s next president, I commit to doing everything in my power to cultivate, promote, and support a culture of life in America.”

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  • Harold Olsen

    Romney’s liberalism is really showing now. I’d never vote for him anyway and this is just one more reason for me not to. He claims to be pro-life. If he is, then why won’t he sign the pledge? I can only think of one reason: he supports abortion. I find him about as trustworthy as Obama.

    What bothers me, and it wasn’t mentioned in this story, is that a candidate that I like, Herman Cain, also refused to sign the pledge,me and I’m now not so sure I would vote for him. Until I heard about this the other day, he was my top choice for 2012. So, he now goes from my “Definitely Will Vote For” column to my “Maybe I’ll Vote For” column.

    • BKWsr

      Herald if you believed in H. Cain before then stick with him. It sounds like he is sticking to his beliefs. I believe abortion is wrong, But if you believe in GOD you should also believe that it is none of our buisness what some one else is doing to themselves as long as they are not harming their neighbors. The Husband of a wife, or in situations where there is not, The parents are the governing factors of our childrens welfare. The Government has no buisness sticking its nose in our busness especially in relation to our children and how we raise them. As to Romney he is in to deep with the Chinese Government. Romney will be just as bad as Obama. I would not sign any list either. The bible says not to jugde, for all is of sin.

      • LMW

        It is not liberalism – the sticking point in that pledge for Romney (and for me) is that if one clinic down a chain in a network of medical facilities is providing abortions, then every medical facility up that chain and below that clinic in that chain will not get funding.

        That goes too far. I am pro-life and that means pro – every life and that is not supported by cutting off the medical funding to every facility in a chain. We are NOT talking about just Planned Parenthood in this pledge.

        I support Romney’s decision in this.

        • Allan

          This reasoning by Romney and Cain is EXACTLY the problem.

          They “wouldn’t want to penalize one entity if it hurts others”. The thing is, if all stand to lose because of one, THEY WILL FIX THE PROBLEM TOGETHER due to self-interest. This is LEVERAGE. The policy could be to give the non-compliant entity 30 days to comply. Otherwise you show the “others” they could be getting away with more. This is EXACTLY the same problem when it comes to spending. No one is willing to say NO, so the habit continues. If the damn GOP would rise up together and say NO, the public would at least see they have backbone. Until we are told NO, we will find ways around doing the right thing, whatever it is.

          • http://burkecomputers.blogspot.com/ DanB

            If you believe that government should get out of the business of dictating our lives and welfare, then you should have no problem with that portion of the pledge.

            1. As you pointed out, if it serves their self-interest, they will fix the problem and comply.

            2. And this is most important to me, if they do not comply, then they will be forced to go the route I ultimately wish for. They will have to become a private entity surviving without government funding. This is actually the path that the whole health care industry should go! Then you wouldn’t have the political conflict of interest anymore. Since they wouldn’t be receiving federal funds, the politicians would lose the clout to threat them with the loss of federal funding.

            Imagine what would happen if the hospitals and clinics lost federal funding over abortions. If they wanted to conduct an abortion on a teenager, they would HAVE TO notify the parents!!! Why? Because to get compensation for their time and facilities, they would need the money from the parents when the federal government stops the money train. It wouldn’t be immediate, but how many teen pregnancies (and abortions) would be stopped when the teens realize that their sexual indiscretion may be required to come to the ears of mom/dad because of an “unwanted” pregnancy? All because the would need mom and dad’s money to pay for the procedure. I believe it would still happen. There would still be people willing to go to lengths to cover up sexual indiscretions, there has long been such people and will continue to yet be such people. But how many would self-correct their behavior if there was a high probability that it would become known to their guardians (who also provide their food, shelter, clothing, and all their extra toys such as cell-phones, game consoles, and so forth)?

          • GregS

            Excellent post, DanB! VERY well stated! However, I’m somewhat confused as to whom you are directing your post: It appears to me that Allan is in full agreement with what you said, and you simply expounded on it. Shouldn’t your post have been in reply to the posts of LMW and BKWsr?

          • GregS

            Well said, Allan!

      • American Citizen

        Abortion does harm someone, ask the aborted baby. Plus, a lo of women have mental or health problems afterwards.

        • BKWsr

          He with out sin cast the first stone

          • Jay

            That doesn’t make sense, since all are with sin then no one is to cast any stones. By casting stones, do you mean judging and dispensing of justice and that we should therefore do away with both? If so, then why do we need a justice system, laws, courts, judges and a police force? Don’t just type one liners, you should elaborate as to what you mean by them!

          • Christin

            BKWsr,

            No one is ‘judging’ the sin of abortion or casting stones…

            Conservative folks are just saying…
            “Don’t Use MY Tax Dollars for Someone Else’s Abortion.”

            Conservatives don’t want the blood of murder on their hands by using their tax dollars to get rid of someone else’s baby.

      • Jim

        If GOD as it says in scripture was against abortion from ancient times, why do you think GOD would change his mind about it now. We are not throwing stones as you say, but speaking up against evil as we are commanded to do.

      • RMTX

        Do you know who your neighbor is? I think you’re forgetting the baby in the womb when you say no one is hurt. Remember the Good Samaritan – Jesus tells us that even those we may despise should be our neighbor. A mother may despise the baby which God has given life to in her womb but the baby has a unique and good purpose and he or she is our neighbor who needs our help and protection.

    • http://personalliberty.com Jerry

      Ron Paul (R-Texas),

      • Curtis Bostic

        AMEN TO RON PAUL!

    • Carol

      Perhaps you should read (or re-read) Romney’s statement. He said that he is for the principles of the pledge, but feels that some of the language is overly broad. I believe that you should give him the opportunity to fully explain his reasoning, before you write him off. I don’t believe that he has at all said that he is pro-abortion. On the contrary, he has indicated that he is against abortion, except in cases of rape, incest, or danger to the life of the mother.

    • Dee

      Thor thanks you for that response!
      Keeping one’s head up arse will never advance the constitutional candidate… It is MY choice to abort if I choose to do so not anyone else’s choice to make. I agree with Mitt’s response it is to broad a statement to sign. People need to educate themselves, who’s body is it yours or mine? Oh right it is MINE but you can tell me what to do with it. Abortion may be wrong but then by who’s standards. We can not legislate morals folks.
      One must use logic and deductive reasoning to make educated decisions.

      • Kenneth Terral

        To all the women out there who claim they have a right to abort their baby because “it’s their body”. If you are a follower of Christ, your body belongs to Jesus Christ, not yourself. And your baby is a completely separate individual from you. Inside or outside the womb. You do not own his/her body, therefore you DO NOT have “the right” to take his/her life. Murder is murder. God will judge…

        • Barbara

          The nervous system starts developing when the fetus=baby is 6 weeks old. It finishes development when the child is 6 months old. That is almost 14 months for the most complex organ in the body.

        • bob wire

          “Murder is murder. God will judge…” Right ! and Gods name is not Kenneth and Kenneth is not a woman.

      • Allan

        A baby feels pain at 20 weeks. No probelm, right?

      • Ellen

        So, how do you anti-abortionists feel about fertility treatments? For some reason, it’s perceived as horrible for a woman to have an abortion to end an accidental pregnancy. But, it’s fine to purposely create 12 embryos knowing that most or all will die from being implanted into a hostile uterus. If any are not implanted, they are left frozen since no one wants to dispose of them. Abortion is a fight that was settled 40 years ago. If you don’t think it is moral, don’t do it. This will be the un-doing of Republicans since the majority of Americans support choice.

      • FWO21

        Hey Dee, the 6th commandment of the Ten Commandments says “Thou shalt not kill.” Your body is yours to use while you are alive; actually, it belongs to God. Ever here how the body is like a Temple of God? Our children are not our “possession” either; we are their caregiver and hopefully we can do a good job so when they are ready to leave the nest, they will be able to take care of themselves.

      • GregS

        Dee says:

        “…who’s body is it yours or mine? Oh right it is MINE but you can tell me what to do with it.”

        The unborn child is NOT part of ANYONE’s body. He/she is a SEPARATE, living human organism with his/her own genome, sex, blood type, etc. Any medical textbook will tell you this.

        Dee says:

        “We can not legislate morals folks.”

        Not true! ALL of our laws are based on morals and Judeo-Christian beliefs.

        • bob wire

          We try ! with mixed results.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Dee… Abortion is wrong by God’s standards, which trumps man’s.

    • EddieW

      Romney a Homosexual Rights Achiever!!!! We have homosexual marriage because of him!! Rommney care!! illegal Flip flop Abortion voted for TARP!! Romneey care & Obamaccare!! In Mass…a totally Liberal State…how far left did Rommney have to lean to get voted in as governor??? Damn Far!!! Believes in global warming…and it’s the people’s fault!! Not the Sun!!!

  • http://deleted Claire

    Herman Cain did not sign the pledge. I always keep thinking–politicians will do anything to get elected. If elected, it remains to be seen if any of them will actually keep their so-called promises and pledges.

    • http://personalliberty.com Jerry

      Ron Paul R-Texas now the best always was always will be

      • Curtis Bostic

        I’ve always said that too!

  • Joe

    Putting Romney in office would be about the same as having George W. Bush (2nd Term ) back in office. Romney is the media choice for the GOP ticket that should be enough to warn any one away from voting him in.
    He forced a program on the Mass. population similar to what Obama is pushing with Obama Care and his answer on pulling out of the wars is to ask the Generals on the ground , that’s like asking the barber if you need a hair cut. Note Huntsman is also not the answer. We need a directional move away from the liberal policies of the last 16 -20 years.

    • bob wire

      If you listen to what they are saying and elect to believe it ~ Bachmann should float your boat. ~ She is saying exactly what you want to hear.

      This woman child has the “stumping” part down pat and has shown that she can raise money and incite a crowd.

      I personally don’t believe her ideas will working well for the majority of Americans but for a minority of Americans, it would be Christmas time 365 days out of the year.

      • Patty

        I don’t imagine you would be one to listen to Rush L, but that is exactly what he has said, except about Obama.

      • Mary

        Yes, Bob that type of people are dangerous just power hungry. The only missing word in the debate was “CHANGE”. This ship has to many holes. Nobody will be able to repair it. I believe abortion is a personal decision, government should be out. This world needs better people no more people. They are to many disfuntional families no values,rotten roots people just wasting oxygen.

    • karolyn

      Reports I’ve heard about the MA healthcare system say it’s doing very well.

      • Patty

        Really? Is that why Dr’s are fleeing the state which will lead to rationing? Plus it is bankrupting the state. http://americanelephant.wordpress.com/2010/03/16/massachusetts-health-care-is-bankrupting-the-state-national-health-care-could-bankrupt-the-country/
        Please let me know where you heard, read it was doing well. I would like to read it. Thanks.

        • eddie47d

          Big Pharma and gouging from the private health care industry did great harm to America’s ability to have a reasonable and cost effective health care plan.They did little to control costs because they were investor motivated and patient care came second. Don’t let anti-government rancor get in the way of stubborn facts and do keep all options open.

          • Patty

            Couldn’t agree more. That is why if I need a prescription, I have my Dr. fax it to CanadaDrugs.com Most of those drug companies get those new drugs from gov’t. grants and university research. If they really wanted to solve the healthcare issue, they should have looked at tort reform, and pulled the gov’t. grants to start with instead of our gov’t. taking over an already broken healthcare system. They should have thought “out of the box” for a solution. And I am sorry, you do not have a right to healthcare. People need to be taught exactly what a “right” is instead of using the term so flippant.

          • eddie47d

            I have liked most of your comments Patty from top to the bottom on this topic. You and Meteorlady have kept the conversation well balanced.

          • Patty

            Thanks Eddie. We do not agree on a lot, but the things we do agree on are the things that our represetatives should be working on instead of constantly dividing us. We may not be living in a perfect country, but it is the most perfect one available right now, but if we could knock off a few things that we do agree on, it would at least improve it. We can work on the other stuff later or maybe it would start to just fall into place. United we stand, divided we fall.

          • Ellen

            The biggest problem with our health care system was the idea of managed care. Doctors are paid less thru this system, so they must see more patients each day. That reduced the quality. Further, we used to go to the doctor when we were sick which was very rare. Now we’re told to get an annual physical to prevent diseases. Exactly how will that prevent diseases? If you have cancer, it won’t even be found in the physical. They can only find high cholesterol, high triglicerides and high weight. If we are fat, we already know we have the other 2 problems. Preventative care begins at home by eating real food and getting some exercise. Your doctor has no control over that whatsoever. They can only help you manage diseases when you have them, they can’t prevent them. We’ve been encouraged to over-use our system, which has lead to increased costs. If we used our system less, costs would decrease. Unfortunately, Obamacare expands free preventative care. Our costs will be skyrocketing soon.

          • eddie47d

            I’ll grudgingly agree with your comment Ellen because Mrs Obama has been emphasising healthy eating to reduce those stated problems.

          • Patty

            Ellen – you are so right. People have no clue about what they are putting in thier bodies out of a box right down to the genetically modified seeds, drugged and hormoned meat products. Being a vegetarian for 10 years actually made me very ill. I don’t fault anyone who can be veg but don’t push it on me. You (I) do need meat proteins in my (our) diet. I pay extra to get the grass fed, and non hormone meat, but the flavor is what you use to get as a kid. I think all of the cancers developing in kids these days come from the fact that the parental provider makes everything out of a box or fast food, plus some enviro issues. I have always cooked from scratch, taught by my mom. I cannot believe when my son would bring a girlfriend over for dinner and they were totally clueless on how to actually prepare ANYTHING. Right down to how to slice a tomato for a salad. My son knew how to make a white sauce from scratch by 1oth grade. It is not you are what you eat, it is you are what you are eating has been eating.

          • Patty

            Eddie – too bad Ms Obama does not practice what she preaches.

      • newspooner

        The MA healthcare system is NOT going well. People are compelled to buy health insurance. That is slavery and totally unamerican. The state income tax form now has two extra pages and adds another 15 minutes or so to the time required for filling out. That should irritate even the tree-huggers. The state increased my health insurance cost by 50% last year. even more than the usual annual increses. In addition to the infamous “bathroom” bills continually coming up in the state legislature, there are frequent bills for mandatory innoculations. You cannot buy insurance tailored to your needs, for example, “catastrophe health insurance”. Comrade Romney messed up the system about as badly as some clown like Barney Freak would have if he was Governor.

      • American Citizen

        I’ve heard some people who live there don’t like it.

    • http://personalliberty.com Jerry

      You must be looking for Ron Paul (R-Texas),

      • newspooner

        As of last month, Ron Paul is alive and well and as 100% committed to freedom and Americanismas ever. Don’t let the misguiders cause people to believe that he is too old or not capable enough. He is vigorous and sharp.

  • Chaz

    Read the history of ‘Molech’ or ‘Molok’ or however it is spelled… This nation is being punished for all the unborn murders that are carried on every minute of everyday. Our suffering economy is not to blame for oure woes. Our suffering comes from the intentional passing of our children through ‘Molech’s Fire.’

    • bob wire

      Gee ! Guilt and God matters.

      I don’t believe it matters much to God which world you live in, this one or the next. And if you think that it does please support your claim.

      What is such a claim predicated on?

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        bob wire…. Everyone and everything matters to God, even you.

        • bob wire

          why suggest that I would not be? Am I now suppose to boast just how tight I am in the Lord?

          I see no need to do such a thing ~ to take great pride or boast in the most obvious? Pride, social illusion or precepts has little to do with such matters of what “is”.

          • BKWsr

            Amen Bobwire. Keep those beliefs, That is the problem with most people who call themselves Christians. They are not practicing what they preach, and are definintely not understanding what they are reading from the bible, Or maybe theirs is deferent from mine. Jesus said he without sin cast the first stone. This country is in bad shape. Most of it is due to immorality, But you can not force people to live buy your rules as long as they are not harming others. Live by the 10 commandments. Those are the laws of GOD, Everything else is from Man.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            bob wire… I was just trying to reassure you that you too matter. You seem a bit defensive.

          • American Citizen

            We are all God’s creation. He cares about everyone. That’s why he sent prophets to warn us as well as His own Son to save us.

          • bob wire

            “Sin” is an Anglo Sexton archery term which only mean “off target”.

            It is most common for man to be off target to various degrees. It takes serious effort to stay on target and not sin but we do! We all sin often. We were told that we would.

            I personally concern myself with “my sins” and much less on the sins of others. To be quite forthright on the matter, I’ve got my hands full and it’s as it should be.

            Defensive ? sorry you took it so ~ I only backed up to offer clarity Robin. We are told to forgive transgression of others before we might ask for forgiveness for being “off target”. This is not easy ~ is it?

  • RJK

    With all the [expletive deleted] going on in this country, we make this
    topic the number one issue to see if a person becomes President
    of the United States of America ? This topic should be put on the back burner for now and lets shape up our country and get people
    working and work on our money issues and building up America
    to be once again #1 in the world !

    Wake Up America !!!!!

    • Dagney

      The life of innocent babies is, was, and should always be a top priority to any moral society. Having said that, I don’t think a “pledge” on a “list” should make any difference in your deliberations to choose the best candidate to take down this evil Marxist that is occupying our White House. ANYBODY BUT OBAMA 2012!!!

      • Allan

        I like pledges because
        a) there aren’t adequate term limits
        b) pledges clarifiy the politician’s true positions
        c) they can provide better representation for your vote and campaign contribution

    • Patty

      Abortion should not be any part of our gov’t. Take it out of the political arena, period. It is no earthly persons position to judge others. There is a higher power out there who will judge all of us.
      PS I believe abortion is murder, but it is not my job to judge people who have one or perform one. Abortion has been around for as long as the oldest profession, prostitution. Neither is going away. Teach morality, and abortions would not be so prevalent.

      • Nora Smith

        If we had formed our conscience morally, we don’t have a problem “judging,” not condemning, the enemies of life.
        Either we are hot or cold -lukewarm attitude gives our Creator a reason to spit us out of His mouth.
        Without the first right, the right to LIFE, it is impossible for a nation to stand for other rights like jobs, health, etc.
        YOU and I once were fetuses and we thank our mothers for giving us the chance to be discussing the inalienable right to LIFE at this moment.
        It is time to be FAITHFUL to our beliefs to the point to GIVE our lives, if necessary for the least of our neighbors, the UNBORN!!

        • Patty

          Nora – You have the right to LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. You do not have a right to a job, house, car, health or anything else. That is part of the problem with this country. They are very confused on what a “right” actually is.

          • GregS

            Patty, the unborn child is a living human organism, which has just as much of a RIGHT TO LIFE as the rest of us living human organisms.

        • Patty

          Nora – Not to worry. There will soon be no money for abortions nor money to support the ones who do not have an abortion. I believe that me telling someone that I could not have an abortion because I think that life is a gift, is as strong as I am going to get. If someone is hell bent on having an abortion, they will find a way. We cannot even agree on how a murderer (one who has killed a human out of the womb) should be delt with in our society.

          • GregS

            Patty, as I stated in a post below, you can say the EXACT same thing about ANY crime that’s EVER been committed: “If someone is hell bent on [committing a crime], they will find a way.”

      • karolyn

        Very well put Patty.

      • Bob Marshall

        Nice!

      • GregS

        Patty says:

        “Abortion should not be any part of our gov’t. Take it out of the political arena, period.”

        It’s too late for that: Roe v. Wade / Doe v. Bolton put it into the political arena in 1973, and it can only be taken out when Roe v. Wade / Doe v. Bolton are overturned.

        Patty says:

        “It is no earthly persons position to judge others. There is a higher power out there who will judge all of us.”

        Is that the way you feel about all crimes that are committed? Why don’t we just get rid of ALL of our laws? In fact, why don’t we just stop making laws, and leave it to that “higher power” to judge us all???

        Patty says:

        “Abortion has been around for as long as the oldest profession, prostitution. Neither is going away.”

        You can say that about ANY crime that has EVER been committed. Again, let’s just get rid of ALL of our laws, because those crimes, against which those laws were created, are NEVER “going away.”

    • http://personalliberty.com Jerry

      I believe the ones who are AWAKE are going to vote for Ron Paul!

      • Patty

        Maybe we should pass out “No-Doze”! RON PAUL 2012!!!

      • Carlucci

        That is a great way to put it – people who are awake and really paying attention. I see a lot of them on this board. Not only that, but using a God given gift called “discernment” – reading between the lines and using your intuition or “sixth sense” about the person and/or situation.

  • Starapple

    Just who do these people (Susan B. Anthony List) think they are? How dare they ask Presidential candidates to sign a pledge. I agree with those that didn’t sign but basically said “get out of my face!”

    • bob wire

      Exactly! ~ It’s a childish absurd notion.

    • newspooner

      I think it is fine for organizations to ask candidates to sign pledges. While I don’t agree with Comrade Romney on most issues, I applaud him for stating his reasons for not signing the pledge. I disagree with his shallow logic and ignoring of the real issue, but that is where the organization involved gets its opportunity to make its pledge an educational issue in the election process.

      I recommend that all candidates should respond to all pledges and surveys that they consider legitimate, whether by giving positive or negative answers or refusing to answer questions that they feel are flawed, misleading or illegitimate in any way. Simply ignoring a survey is bound to turn off many people who might actually vote for the candidate even if they don’t fully agree with them. Just look at the difference in how Ron Paul and Barney Freak respond to surveys. It speaks volumes.

      • GregS

        Well said, newspooner!

      • bob wire

        I think you are underestimating the very nature of politics and how it is played out.

        It’s much like high stakes poke, bid, draw,pass, raise, bluff, win or fold. The uncertainly of what power the opposition is holding or how they might play their cards has much to do with the final out come.

        This solicitation to sign a “letter of intent” greatly interferes with ones ability to stand on equal footing.

        The benefits of signing such a document would have to out weigh the disadvantage. As far as I can tell, this can’t be offered or promised.

    • Nora Smith

      SUSAN ANTHONY LIST are the BRAVE who don’t have the false pride to tell their Creator, who are you God to tell me what to do with my body, it is my body.
      Subscribe to it to start reaping joy, in this world and later in the next.
      St. Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, closed minded.

    • Patty

      I won’t vote for Romney, but he was correct not to sign. That petition is a divisive tool. Presidents are to unite people as one, not divide. Not only does that petition divide us as a country, they are using it to divide the republican party.

    • Allan

      “Who they think they are” are the voters and contributors to the candidate. They are the employer, who has seen situational ethics lead us to the situation at hand.

  • Elevenarrows

    I agree, Joe. A simple piece of advice for all the Americans that refuse to “do their homework” and do INFORMED voting would be to tell them to NOT VOTE for ANYONE the media endorses. I am amazed at the number of people who vote for whoever is “hip and cool” instead of looking at how they’ve voted in the past, what their agenda appears to be, who is funding them, etc. Of course, that is assuming the person has a past that shows a voting record…which one would hope would be the case for the office of president. I continue to be amazed at the number of people who voted for a man with almost no experience.

    Don’t get me wrong, I believe in the concept of citizen statesman, but you want to make sure he has SOME experience in American values and understands America’s Constitution before you place him in one of the highest offices in the land.

    As for Romney, I firmly believed he was the “same old thing” we’d had before during the last election. Another good standard to go by would be to make sure the next president has ZERO ties to Bilderberg, Tri Lateral or CFR. I don’t want to vote for someone who has even rubbed shoulders with someone in those groups.

  • Alex

    Tea Party mantra: “Love the fetus; hate the child”

    • Dagney

      Huh?

    • NJNurse

      Alex, what the heck is your problem? Stop making utterly untrue statements.

    • bob wire

      it’s a talking point. ~ that fly’s in the face of personal liberties and fraught with hypocrisy. While demand person freedom from government denying it to others as government knows best. An intrusion of family predicated by church taught morals. They are saying their views superceeds the family/mother (the host of life) on moral grounds and government knows what is best, willing to use the courts to make it so while leaving American women limited control of their own bodies.

      • Patty

        They were willing to “share” thier body with someone else to get pregnant. So, why should they not be willing to “share” thier body for a while longer and take responsibility for thier actions? They could always get rid of it later by adopting it out. Or “sell” it for an education and maybe they can learn how not to get pregnant. Just a thought….

    • Gary

      Alex…you’re the Child

      • bob wire

        We all are “the child” even if you were hatched.

        Alex is guilt only of using 4 and 6 letter slogan ~ Like “tax and spend”

        Considering how difficult it’s been to get Children’s issues addressed on capital hill as mother’s and children make up the bulk of the poor in this nation today, such a three word slogan is reflective of what could be called hate and disdain and Alex observation accurate enough that you only resent the element of truth offered.

        • Patty

          Bob W – I have been a single parent, female. I work with a lot of “family law” attorneys. I am assuming you are a white male. You need to know and understand this. In thier eyes, you are the enemy. You are to be defeated. In thier eyes, you are solely responsible for getting the female pregnant, therefore, you should be solely responsible financially for that child and nothing else, and to the cleaners they will take you. They do not want you to be a part of that childs life on any emotional level, just keep the money coming. If you happened to do the right thing and get married, and then have children, you are still to blame and you will pay dearly financially and emotionally. They also want you physically out of the picture and they will use those kids to thier own detriment to do so. They will wrongly accuse you of assult to get a restraining order against you, they will accuse you of molesting the kids and putting those kids through the child services ringer so you will have none to limited child visitation. They will bankrupt you in every since of the word. I have seen it not 100′s of times, but 1,000′s. I do not have much faith in my female counterparts. But, again, there are exceptions to the rule.

          • Patty

            Women use thier own children as the only power they have left over you. They know it, and now you know it. You were only the sperm donor. And it is all to the detriment of raising a healthy happy child.

          • Carlucci

            Wow, Patty. I just finished reading (for the second time) that book “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands” by Dr. Laura Schlesinger. She pretty much says the same thing about men, and how vilified they are now in our society.

            I temped at a family law firm many years ago and was astounded by what I learned about “family law” in just a few short weeks. It was very disturbing. I wonder if people knew what really goes on, if they would even bother to get married and have kids. After being at that law firm for the time I was there, I was so happy that I didn’t have any children.

          • Patty

            Carlucci – My son so wants to have a family. But, he does not want to get married. He has tried to talk a couple of girlfriends into having a child and giving it to him. As strange as that sounds, I can understand where this male is coming from. I told him I would help him to adopt or find a surragot(sp) for him, but I think he finally has something figured out. It is just sad what they radical females) have accomplished to degenerate males to this status. Sperm donors. I can almost understand that if they wanted to support the child on thier own.

          • bob wire

            “You need to know and understand this. In their eyes, you are the enemy. ” who is “they” Patty? Women? or this Tea Party mindset?

            I take it that you imply women.

            Women at much like men, many most willing to use whats required to render a desired results. It’s positional play and they have an arsenal of things at their disposal.

            The question has always been, what is seen as the desired results.

            With a woman, it often fails to make much sense to men. A man never sees himself as the enemy.

            You remember Michael Douglas part in the movie “Falling Down”? A perfect example.

        • Allan

          A lot of conservatives didn’t realize they hated children and were evil, greedy, and racist, until they came on this site, where the progressives were kind enough to explain it to us.

          • bob wire

            LOL! glad to help. ~ It’s not hate of children but indifference to children that’s not ones own.

            Myself, I enjoy children medium rare.

      • Patty

        Alex’s problem is he is the child. His comment has nothing to do with the Tea Party. Most Tea Party people take care of what they bring into this world the best they can. What Alex is talking about is other responsible people having to take care of irresponsible people that want to pass thier responsibility, mostly financial, on to others. Tell me this Alex, if they are not responible enough to not get pregnant and not responsible enough to raise a child they bring into this world one thier own, what makes you think they have enough grey matter to make the decision of an abortion?

        • bob wire

          Hmm, ~ the preforming of sex is a natural and normal body function, and we have little control or say outside the boundaries of “self” in such matters. Try as you may, we can’t control, when and where others succumb to natures urge. ~ This is a problem and issue best addressed by family and church and best left there. Would you not agree?

          • Patty

            I totally agree. Then would you agree that thier decisions should not be made my problem with either having to pay for an abortion or pay to raise thier child?

          • bob wire

            of course ~ Who wishes to pay for someone else fun or folly?

            I was reading your post on family law experiences. ~ You offered some grizzly stories of women taking advantage and exploiting their position and gender. Some do that. If they get really mad at you, most of them will. The trick is use to not let it go that far and make her that mad. Women can be ruthless when she’s been hurt. I bet Shiver will give Arnold pure hell, and it made worst by him “now” trying to do the right thing. It’s too late to do the “right thing” for Arnold.

            Having lived thu several myself, a combat vet of many wars, I say ~ it’s the codependency that leads to such downfalls along with a predisposition for some to just be unhappy people regardless who they are with.

            Dr. Laura ~ has insightful views, tho I’ve no plans to read such book anymore. Stick a fork in me, I’m so done. A women will love you until she don’t. If a man wish to accept such a mission, it for him to postpone the process. It’s not so hard, but it does require some effort.

            Patty, you have to admit, ~ working in the trenches of bliss gone south, day in and day out could jade anyone view about marital matters. There is still some good women out there, I find one every few years that’s very hard to say bye to.

            AT 63, I sure don’t need to commit to such a contract. I know how clean socks gets in the sock draw and what makes a woman grin and feel proud to be with you. It’s crazy but I’m more in demand now then I’ve been in my life and children are no longer sought or required to be contended with.(I enjoy the little ones) But that’s just my little story. The younger ones today are still having to feel their way through lives ups and down, reading books, hone their interpersonal relationship skills and searching for “self” in a sea of constant demands, just like I did.

            I wish everyone the best of luck with it. Education doesn’t come cheap, one way or the other ~ you will pay. The best thing to do is try harder, accept your results and if you must move on, do better next time.

      • eddie47d

        Alex is only pointing out the inconsistencies in politics or human feelings. There are those who say they won’t allow any abortions and demand a women carries a fetus to full term. Once that child is born some of those same people will deny that child prenatal care,doctor visits,welfare,food stamps,daycare discounts and a wide assortment of needs that the mother can’t afford. They will demonize that women for thinking about an abortion and then demonize her for for going on the dole to help her baby survive. That is the terrible hypocrisies of the right. The left has their own hypocrisies on abortion in allowing so many to occur. It is a moral issue with consequences on either side. The Conservatives and Liberals think they are being loving ,decent and compassionate on the same subject. The problem is both sides want to hide the ugly truths about their decisions. We must treat life with respect and we also have to consider differing circumstances for the individual.Abortions must be limited but of free choice to those who seek them.

        • Patty

          You are right on this one Eddie. But the “mother” she is not a mother if she aborts, should be held accountable. Vilify her, no. I think that personal responsibility is the bigger issue. Have kids, don’t have kids, but don’t dump your poor decisions into my lap. My lap is full taking care of my own responsibilities. Don’t you think that as soon as you have the need to depend on other people for actions or decisions you have made, you have automatically given up or limited your choices fundamentally? I think more and more people are irresponsible in thier decisions because they are not held accountable. In my demented thought process, you give up your so called “right” when you want someone else to solve your problem.

          • Bob Marshall

            I hope whomever is in the Whitehouse in 2012 share your convections. You go Girl! Of course that can’t be Obama.

        • Allan

          These are excuses to not focus on what is happening in an abortion.

  • Elevenarrows

    RJK,

    Thankfully, as an American, you are entitled to your view. Please understand that many other Americans, like myself, view our government’s stance on abortion as a huge factor in America’s demise. When a nation ceases to value life–whether that of a baby or an elderly person–that nation is subject to the wrath of God. Also, I think many of us would long to see a man of character in the White House…one who has values and is willing to adhere to them no matter the cost politically. Unfortunately, too many Americans are more concerned with their money than the overall well-being of America….which is what got us here in the first place. We are a nation adrift because too many Americans are not willing to stand on the side of right. Too many Americans would rather farm their kids out to gov’t propaganda “schools”, get their food and benefits from Uncle Sam and spawn off of the rest of us. Too many Americans don’t really care what kind of person sits in the White House as long as their standard of living isn’t affected. I’m sorry, RJK, but some of us have a higher standard than just “give me my money”.

    • Dagney

      “Also, I think many of us would long to see a man of character in the White House…..”

      Or woman!

      • Patty

        Human.

        • Dagney

          Well, duh!

          • Patty

            Dagney – I think most of them are pigs.

      • C130 Gunship

        Dagney- You are exactly right!

        The majority of CONgress critters and the Senate is dominated by men, and I will admit they have done a wonderful job phucque’in up this once great nation. I for one, am all for many more women running the show.

  • Elevenarrows

    Alex,
    Can you give some examples for that statement? I’ve yet to meet a conservative supporting the Tea Party who doesn’t love their children. Just wondering if you can back your opinion with any facts…..

    • karolyn

      I believe what he’s getting at is cuts in budget items that assist the poor. It’s OK to have more babies, but there’s no money to take care of them, so the children suffer.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        karolyn.. Why is it okay to have more babies if you won’t be responsible for them? The government should not have to do the parent’s job.

        • karolyn

          But, Robin, there is no way to stop them from having babies (shsort of sterilization) and no way to force them to be responsible, so without abortion, there are even more sick and hungry kids living in filth and squalor. It IS our responsibility to assist hese children. It’s not their fault. Of course, more and better sex education would help, but then you conservatives are against that.

          • meteorlady

            Probably you are right, except that our government rewards people for having more and more children. The Muslims in Detroit are breeding like rabbits while not working at all because they believe we are their slaves. The Latinos don’t know when to quit. Maybe it’s time the government says 2 children and that’s it. Yes, children will suffer, but maybe they will give them up or stop if they know they can’t collect more money or them..

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            karolyn… We are not against abstaining.

          • Patty

            It is not our responsibility for these kids. There. I said it. Maybe if we made it less lucrative for them to pro-create, they would stop breeding like rats. Maybe we should put a cap on it. We will pay for 1 abortion and with that you get sterilization, same for pregnancy, we will pay for 1 child and directly after its birth, you will be sterilized. It can no longer be we give up our way of life so they can have one. We see how well that is working and it is bankrupting us financially and morally. It cannot constantly be we give, you take. There is way enough education out there on how to or not to get pregnant and they do not use it. Free clinics and birth control, they know about it and don’t use it. Don’t tell me we need to waste more money on anything. Enough has been wasted with reverse results.

          • Allan

            It all depends on how you present it to young people. Either abortion is taking a life, with its multiple effects, or it is just an “inconvenience” for one person. If you present it the first way, there is less likelihood of that young person having an abortion.

          • Patty

            Allen – I think the bigger point is, you can have as many abortions and or kids that you want, so long as you can pay for them. If you want to dump your responsibility on someone else, the ones paying for it deserve to not have to pay for your bad judgement more than once.

      • Patty

        I agree with you that that is what Alex’s point was. The problem with that point is that I never considered having someone else pay for the raising of my child. I knew that I could not afford more than 1 child on my own, therefore, I made sure I didn’t get pregnant again, although I would have liked to have more. I do not agree with having to pay for others bad decisions. I do believe in helping others, so long as they cannot repeat. I’ll pay for you to have an abortion, so long as you are steralized at the same time. I’ll pay to raise your child, so long as after it’s birth you are sterilized. Otherwise, don’t expect to keep coming back to the well because you want to live off of me.

    • bob wire

      They love “their children” but other peoples? ~ Not so much.

      It’s a “Me & Mine” thang ! very common by all people but most pronounced and prevalent among the Tea Party crowd. A predisposition developed in the forming years of childhood, the world is seen only from “I”, “Me” or “Mine” position and can be seen in no other way.

      or “I got mine, screw you”

      or “guilty by sins of the father” ~ guilt is seen as something that can be deferred and transferred.

      or “victims of life circumstances are seen as always guilty of something that lead to their undoing” There only needs to be elements of truth to make it “ALL True” and justifiable to practice.

      Now someone hop up and call my statements “gibberish” and too confusing to understand. I expect it.

      • meteorlady

        Excuse me? I don’t dis the Tea Party – I have friends who belong. Those same friends show up twice a week to built houses for Habitat. Those same people sit on the board for our children’s charities. It’s not I, me or whatever. It’s about preserving what I worked for by using my abilities, my education and my work ethic. No one deserves what I work for unless I deem it appropriate to fund a charity or build houses for deserving people that want to help themselves.

        Sorry…. You just don’t get it at all sometimes. I was born on a reservation, worked my way through college and now run a small business. I did that, even though there were hurdles and bumps in the road, without government interference or money. So I’m supposed to feel good about my tax dollars going to organizations like LaRaza, Planned Parenthood, and all the other scammers out there? I’m supposed to feel good that I’m supporting people that are able to work but won’t? that I’m working to support a bunch of illegals and under educated immigrants? Gads…..call me selfish if you want, but the goose is running out of golden eggs.

        • bob wire

          Well it’s good to hear that you know of such people and their good works. ~ I don’t speak in absolutes ~ there are many exception.

          And as far as “your money” being taken from you ~and who’s doing the taking ~ I feel your are swallowing a camel and gagging on a nat.

          Not a word did you mention about Wall Street Banker or performance bonuses ~ while you chastised the lowest and most hungry among us for needing a hand out.

          So where is your focus? ~ on those you feel you might have to compete with? Or those that steal us blind while avoiding breaking laws of man while transgressing laws of God?

          Both are bleeding us out but of the two Bankers should be your biggest concern as their are at our throats and not our feet.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Bob wire… You talk in circles and try to muddy the issues. How about responsibility and accountability? You don’t have to be affiliated with any political party to ‘man up’ and do the right thing.

        • bob wire

          How about responsibility and accountability? We’ve been attempting to discuss that for 50 years that I’m aware of. ~ and muchlonger then that , I’m sure.

          For whom? by whom? ~ The Clyde Act prevents Federal money to be used for abortions. ~ Do you know of any instance of a violation of this law? I do not. So why de-fund women wellness centers? ~ The end results is less education, less counseling,less prevention, and more babies and more unhealthy women and mothers.

          Women are not like us men ~ for a healthy, quality long life they and their off spring require more professional attention. Back in the 1800′s it was common for women were died in the 20′s and 30′s. Infant dead was high as well.

          Is that what you wish to return too, the good old days, where you could ride your horse and shoot your gun with nare a care?

      • Patty

        Bob Wire – You were just commenting earlier about sex being an animalistic urge that cannot be contained. So is the urge for self preservation. People are generous, but they don’t want to be scammed and we are being scammed on this issue and not volutarily. When was the last time you helped someone unemployed make out thier resume? When was the last time you helped by groceries for a family? When was the last time you took your friend to the doctor to holf thier hand? When was the last time you mowed your neighbors lawn or shoveled for them or hauled their garbage cans up for them because they are getting up there in years? When was the last time you helped your neighbors being evicted, to help pack up, clean up and find them a more affordable place? Maybe if we put a face on it, people would see that the help that they get, has a human extension to it. Right now, people who receive gov’t. money put a gov’t. poster on it. They actually think that the gov’t. has money. The only money the gov’t. has is what it confiscates from hard working people. Some people are tired of doing without so others can host off of them. I am one of those people. Sorry.

        • bob wire

          It is animal ! We are animals. ~ But I didn’t say that it “couldn’t be contained.” ~ I said, You can only control “self” on a good day. But your rights ends at the end of your nose.

          As a husband and father, even I had limited control of my wife and children on such matters. Control is not mine to have, I can only guide, offer example and resistance. ( believe me, I’ve tried so many things to gain control that a Judge had to explain my limitation to me personally.) I didn’t go quietly into the night. I took my responsibility as a father and husband more the serious.

          The responsibility and burden starts with “self” and not government on such matters.

          I know many of you might wish to believe you have control of others ~ but you don’t. That’s just wishful thinking. ~ You can only make people wish the “had” listen to you.

      • Allan

        There is a difference between selfishness and personal responsibility, which Progressives don’t understand. It’s at the core of why the Tea Party formed.

        • Patty

          Thank you Allen. Who is more selfish, the person who shirks thier responsibility and dumps it on others, or the ones who have paid in enough on demand.

        • bob wire

          I see, ~ You have decided to attack poor people for being irresponsible and require you to assist them. ~ They are easy enough to kick around, they have no voice, no power ~ I call it cowardly and afraid to fight the real fight!

          People are afraid to take on wall street, the robber barons and their bought off elected officials that have destroyed our economy and our way of life, electing rather to kick around someone that they can beat up, someone that offers no excuse and to weak to fight. That really going to serve some great purpose, chasing down nickels and pennies.

          America needs to grow pair.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI

  • Restless Native

    He’s Pandering…

    We need to ensure that the most people ever are awake this time around! Each of these individuals… on the right and left side, are doing one thing… trying to win an election. Let’s not forget that, even with the candidate we support. Look at their history to understand the type of job they will do going forward.

    This is why I will be voting for Dr. Ron Paul.

    • Patty

      Ditto. VOTE IN YOUR PRIMARY IF YOU WANT HIM ON THE BALLOT.

  • Elevenarrows

    Dagney,

    Sorry…I don’t worry about being politically correct. Too much PC has gotten us in the mess we are in…for most writers, “man” refers to either gender just as mankind does not exclude women.

  • NJNurse

    I would not vote for Romney but he did make the right decision not to sign this pledge.

  • Gary

    Abortion should not be an issue that would persuade your vote on a candidate. Every election this topic comes up and takes a lot of time away from other important issues. Abortion will always be a personal issue between the mother and her maker. I do not condone it,
    and I don’t believe our tax dollars should pay for it, but it is still a personal choice.

    • iamone3

      There is nothing more important than a childs life and I won`t vote for anyone that supports abortions.

      • Patty

        Even if you agreed with 90% of everything else they had to say? You would rather see Obama get re-elected? Really???? Is that the only paradigm your life rotates on?

  • Elevenarrows

    Restless Native,

    It is refreshing that Dr. Paul has shouted the same message (which we all should have heeded) for 30 years now. Until non-thinking Americans can actually study a candidate for themselves, they will continue to vote for whoever the media says is “good” and ridicule whoever they say is “bad”. The good news is that “the powers that be are ordained by God”. Hopefully in this next election cycle, God will have mercy on our nation, but we sure don’t deserve it!

    • karolyn

      If I were a senile grandmother, I would love to be put out of my misery and freed from the chains of this earth. The same goes for an aborted fetus. That spirit is free to come back via reincarnation if it so chooses. This is what I believe, and I expect to be respected for it. Death should be celebrated.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        karolyn… Although I believe your views are skewed, you have a right to your opinion. A fetus is unable to speak.

        • meteorlady

          But a fetus cannot live outside the womb. A fetus is the “property” of the person carrying it. It’s their life, their decision and their moral and religious values that they have to live with. If you are religious then you know that their decision is between them and their God.

          • GregS

            meteorlady, a newborn baby can’t live outside the care of his/her parents in their home, but that does NOT mean that the baby is their “property.” Therefore, you can’t say that an unborn child is the woman’s “property,” just because he/she is in her womb. It’s a medical fact that the unborn child is a separate living human organism, and that’s all that matters.

      • Patty

        Karolyn, the fetus is not making the decision. A human, who has already made a bad choice by getting pregnant in the 1st place is making this decision. Would you condone a parent physically inflicting pain on a child although they have done nothing wrong? That is what you do to a fetus at 20 weeks. They can feel the pain physically of an abortion at 20 weeks. http://discovermagazine.com/2005/dec/fetus-feel-pain

        • karolyn

          Bottom line is there is no such thing as “death”. The soul cannot be killed.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            karolyn… Again I agree. The soul lives, but the body will die. Depending on your beliefs will either send your soul to heaven or hell. The body has to make that decision.

          • Patty

            Karolyn – you totally blew off my point. Answer the point, not some vague opinion. There is a reason it is termed “body & soul”. There is a difference. They are 2 seperate things. So, please answer my question. Is it ok for a person to make someone else endure physical pain?

          • karolyn

            Of course it’s not OK for someone to inflict pain on another. I do not believe that a trimester fetus is a viable person and as such would not feel pain. Look, Patty, I am neither for, nor against, abortion. I am pro-choice – that’s what it means. It’s not up to me to make decisions for others.

          • Patty

            Karolyn – I think we are on the same page. I do believe in life at conception, but I am not going to make that call for someone else. And I think you were saying that a fetus cannot feel pain in the 1st trimester, which is correct. I still couldn’t do it. In my younger years I thought as you, until I became pregnant, a baby really is a miracle and gift from god. Experience is a good teacher.

          • bob wire

            Thank you, kAROLYN for that. ~ as I said earlier, I don’t believe it matters much to God which world you dwell in, this one or the next. With Robin pointing out to me that even I too matter to God.

            Which is completely off track of the statement ~ it has nothing to do with one value or who matters but what “is” and eternal life regardless of your “present address”.

            It seems We attempt to talk of the spiritual matters while our feet are earth bound in concrete. This is a very hard thing to do.

  • Elevenarrows

    Gary,

    Would it be a personal choice, in your opinion, for someone to kill off your senile grandmother? Some of us don’t agree with your “live and let live” philosophy when it doesn’t apply to ALL life. Those of us who know a baby is a living being at conception do not agree with your “do what makes you happy and don’t bother me about it” mentality. Oh, for a few good men with strong moral fortitude to stand in the gap to preserve the America we are fast losing! Too many men have become spineless and unable to do the difficult just because it is RIGHT.

    • karolyn

      I responded to the wrong post. The above response was supposed to go here.

    • meteorlady

      A Fetus cannot live outside the womb. That’s a fact. It’s not like killing off my grandmother. It’s someone else’s choice who may or may not have the same ethical and moral values as you. But…. does that give you the right to legislate your moral and religious values on another? Maybe we all need to look up FREEDOM again. It’s not right for the government to legislate moral values on the public in general. It’s also not right for our government to fund anything that does that or to pay for abortions.

      • GregS

        meteorlady, ALL of our laws are based on morals and Judeo-Christian beliefs. That is a FACT. To say that morals should not be legislated, is to imply that we should get rid of ALL of our laws.

  • s c

    First, Romney has taken the pollster approach to political reality. That makes him a liability – especially if he’s courting conservatives and libertarians. Second, Romney has dared to label himself PRO-DEATH. Sobeit.
    Romney, go down on your knees, and beg Planned Non-Parenthood for campaign donations. You earned it, you Nazified, pc trollop.

  • Jon

    It’s been reported that Romney is 100% pro-life. He had an objection with a clause in the pledge that would, for example, defund a 5 unit hospital if on unit was doing abortions. Defunding the whole conglomerate is not right. Look at Romney’s por-life stand. Having said that, I’m not a Romney fan and prefer another candidate. But he doesn’t deserve to get this dinging from the press and other candidates.

    • GregS

      The problem with that logic is that some of the taxpayer dollars would ultimately trickle down (in one form or another) to that 1 unit that performs abortions. Therefore, some taxpayer dollars would be used to pay for abortions. It’s all in the accounting, and that’s EXACTLY what is currently going on with Planned Parenthood.

  • Henry Ledbetter

    According to scripture “Children are a heritage of the Lord and the fruit of the womb is His reward.” To bad we treat God’s reward as just an unnecessary pile of flesh to be placed in a garbage dump. Is there any wonder that a Holy and long suffering God is finally fed up with us and is now displaying His Wrath upon our nation. “If God be for us then who can stand against us” but the flip side of that coin is, if God be against us then who will be able to stand for us. We need to repent of the evil of abortion and put it out of the land if we even dare to hope for a continued existence.

    • bob wire

      interesting, Henry. ~ Do you remember who authors those words and where they might be located? ~ But of course ~ all things are of GOD ~ even convict and criminals. So context is important in such matters in our efforts to be righteous in the spirit.

      • ValDM

        Both of these scriptures can be found in Psalms. If you want chapter & verse, Too bad. Read ALL the Psalms & you might learn something.

        • bob wire

          Thanks for that ~ I will at some point. ~ It’s as I thought,old testament writing and the interpreted inspiration suspect. These men were not Divine but only inspired by the divine. Abraham according to script was actually asked the sacrifice his son to God while God stayed his hand at the last minute. ~ Kind of a rough old God by accounts of the time period. So is this twist, a twist in the telling or a twist in God? I suspect the former rather then the latter.

          “Many psalms are signed by their author but others are not. Seventy-three bear David’s name . Asaph is listed on twelve. Some are attributed to Solomon. Moses Ethan and Heman are thought to have written one each. The remainder are unknown in authorship. The Davidic psalms bear other hallmarks of David. He was known as a master musician throughout the Old Testament period and these psalms bear testimony to this. Many are reflections of events in his life. The New Testament writers also referred to David as being the author of specific psalms. The Sons of Korah wrote 11.
          Answer
          David wrote the Psalms.
          Answer
          The Book of Psalms is a collection of short writings believed to have been produced by a number of anonymous authors over a period of two or three hundred years during and after the Babylonian Exile. We do not know who selected the psalms for inclusion in the Book of Psalms, or who first wrote the book as a single collection on a scroll.
          The Psalms were written by many people, like David Asap.

          Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_wrote_the_book_of_Psalms#ixzz1Q4hsrXQs

  • Joe

    America is suffering from many ills but they can all be tracked back to America’s moral slide. All great leadership comes down from the top and that is why we need our next president to have high moral values not some sellout who goes with the highest bidder. If you have high moral values and understand that you represent the best interest of the American people you will not sell out. We need our next President to do the right moral thing in all areas. We all look for leaders that bring integrity to all they do. We may not agree with them all the time but if they base there leadership on moral integrity we will respect them
    for that integrity and the county and people will be better served for it.

    • Alex

      With regards to Moral and Family Values, the Demi-crats seem to take these things much more seriously than the Rethuglicans—look how quickly Nancy Pelosi called for an ethics investigation of Anthony Weiner. Disgraced ex-Governor Elliot Spitzer was roundly criticized by the same Democrats who saw him as a dynamic leader. The GOP, on the other hand either wrings its withered hands (John Ensign) or votes them right back in (that Vitter creep). Throw in trying to kick Grandma off of Medicare so she can try her luck with your giant Insurance Corporations and you have pretty much lost the Family Values argument. You people should wake up and start reading more. Keep in mind that Flush Limpjaw or however you spell his name, a guy who whoops it up for Family Value Republicans, is a drug-addicted pedophile.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Alex.. You are on a conservative blog, but yet you still don’t get it. You are drunk on liberalism. I was a liberal once. It was so liberating to figure out that conservatism is so much better for America. I hope some day you will be able to debate without ranting through your posts.

        • eddie47d

          You keep trying to pump up the Liberal/Conservative battle. If it’s moral to go after a Liberal like Weiner yet there is no consequences for a Conservative like Vetter then you have lost the battle. You are choosing sides instead choosing right or wrong. I believe that both these men made bad decisions and have to live with their personal behaviors. Vetter was re-elected by his constituents and few knew about his troubles. Yet Weiner was demonized by the whole nation and every detail was exposed. It’s been said that his district would have supported him and allowed him to finish his term.Yet he was tried and convicted in the national arena. The double standards are too glaring to ignore.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            eddie… What is your point? There are scumbags in both parties. Many get reelected. Beats me why. Charlie Rangel, Ted Kennedy, etc. etc…. I know it’s not all Dems, but they were the first to come to mind. I can’t change what others do. I can only vote my one vote and if it counts, great! It won’t always work out for me which has happened more than once. But, the public does have a right to know. A well-informed voter can make a better decision with more information.

          • ValDM

            Let’s be real here. Wanker ANNOUNCED his resignation. So far he has not submitted his formal resignation. HE’S STILL IN OFFICE.

      • Patty

        Alex – Do you mean like Rangel, Frank, Edwards. There are plenty of immoral people on both sides, I don’t see people on this post defending any of them.

      • meteorlady

        Hey alex – what about these:

        William Jefferson Clinton- Impeached by the House of Representatives over allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice, but acquitted by the Senate. Scandals include Whitewater – Travelgate Gennifer Flowersgate – Filegate – Vince Fostergate – Whitewater Billing Recordsgate – Paula Jonesgate- Lincoln Bedroomgate – Donations from Convicted Drug and Weapons Dealersgate – Lippogate – Chinagate – The Lewinsky Affair – Perjury and Jobs for Lewinskygate – Kathleen Willeygate – Web Hubbell Prison Phone Callgate – Selling Military Technology to the Chinesegate – Jaunita Broaddrick Gate – Lootergate – Pardongate

        Edward Moore Kennedy – Democrat – U. S. Senator from Massachusetts. Pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, after his car plunged off a bridge on Chappaquiddick Island killing passenger Mary Jo Kopechne.

        Barney Frank – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1981 to present. Admitted to having paid Stephen L. Gobie, a male prostitute, for sex and subsequently hiring Gobie as his personal assistant. Gobie used the congressman’s Washington apartment for prostitution. A move to expel Frank from the House of Representatives failed and a motion to censure him failed.

        DNC – The Federal Election Commission imposed $719,000 in fines against participants in the 1996 Democratic Party fundraising scandals involving contributions from China, Korea and other foreign sources. The Federal Election Commission said it decided to drop cases against contributors of more than $3 million in illegal DNC contributions because the respondents left the country or the corporations are defunct.

        Sandy Berger – Democrat – National Security Advisor during the Clinton Administration. Berger fined $50,000 for illegally removing highly classified documents and handwritten notes from the National Archives during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings.

        Robert Torricelli – Democrat – Withdrew from the 2002 Senate race with less than 30 days before the election because of controversy over personal gifts he took from a major campaign donor and questions about campaign donations from 1996.

        James McGreevey – Democrat – New Jersey Governor . Admitted to having a gay affair. Resigned after allegations of sexual harassment, rumors of being blackmailed on top of fundraising investigations and indictments.

        Jesse Jackson – Democrat – Democratic candidate for President. Admitted to having an extramarital affair and fathering a illegitimate child.

        Gary Condit – Democrat – US Democratic Congressman from California. Condit had an affair with an intern. Condit, covered up the affair and lied to police after she went missing. No charges were ever filed against Condit. Her remains were discovered in a Washington DC park..

        • Blueshoes

          Meteorlady,

          You brought up some great points. Let’s see if you’ll get as good and detailed response. I doubt it. I’m sure it’ll be more dribble.

          • bob wire

            oh ! don’t kid yourself, The data is out there and easily complied and presented.

            It’s 7:02 am and I’ve got to scoot out of here ~ but I’d accept such a challenge with one hand tied behind my back. ~

            But it still wouldn’t prove anything ~ just another form of [offensive word removed ] to amuse and entertain ones self.

        • Patty

          I don’t think democrats have a corner on the market, but thier corner sure seems more like a block and goes a lot deeper.

      • Allan

        In continually pointing to conservatives who screwed up, the message of Progressives seems to be if some people can’t be 100% true to their principles, then no one has to have principles!

        This is your classic “But Johnny (or Susie) did it!”. This child will be hard-pressed to develop principles.

        Because others fail is no excuse not to strive for those family values, etc. Progressivism is built on the promise of being able to make excuses for everything — the ultimate free pass.

  • Elevenarrows

    Karolyn,

    I am sincerely sorry that you would rather be dead than alive. I guess that is one of the reasons you would not have cared if your mother had aborted you. As for reincarnation, you are in for the shock of your life…I mean, of your death. Scripture plainly tells us that there are two destinations after this life: Heaven or Hell. I truly hope you will see the utter emptiness of your beliefs and embrace life…through Jesus Christ who died to save you. Evil has always embraced a culture of death. Having read your comments for some time now, I am determined to pray that God would open your heart to TRUTH. I have never met anyone who needs it more!

    • karolyn

      If you believe scripture to the literal letter, you are right. However, I do not believe scripture to be literal. There are many different ways of interpretating the Bible. Who’s to say yours is right? I believe God does not punish us for being who he made us to be and that we are all, along with everything in the world, a part of God. Believing that, there is no way God would punish us. We punish ourslves.

      • Elevenarrows

        Karolyn….ask yourself, “But what if I’m wrong???”

        God is holy and cannot accept anything sinful. That’s why Christ had to remove our sin FOR us. Once we each, individually, accept His gift of salvation, God views us as righteous. It is not because of anything acceptable in any of us. Unfortunately for you, if you do not accept God ON HIS TERMS, you will suffer eternal consequences for expecting Him to accept you on your terms.

        As to validity of Scripture, have you ever wondered why this one book has been preserved throughout the ages and its accuracy can be proven by historical works such as the WORKS OF JOSEPHUS?

    • meteorlady

      See that’s the problem here. You believe, really believe, in something maybe the rest of us do not so totally apply as correct. I believe that abortion is wrong because there are other options available. BUT, there are freedoms and rights and we need to have enough respect for others that do not believe as we do and let them go their own way. It’s ultimately up to them and their God or lack thereof in the end.

      That’s why the Constitutional framers wanted to keep religion and politics separate. Simply because religion wants to legislate moral values… values that may or may not be shared by the common citizenry.

      • Elevenarrows

        Uhh…I think you have erroneously bought into the idea of “separation of church and state” as being separation of religion and gov’t. You need to put aside those silly gov’t propaganda textbooks and read the founders’ own words. You will be embarrassed at your faulty reasoning once you see what they really said, thought, and believed.

  • http://cesarfs.blogspot.com/ Cesar Fernández-Stoll

    Romney is not pro-life period. His ‘excuses’; rape, incest and so on, are not issues that represent life but crime, as abortion is and by killing the babies product of these calamities, is not an answer to protect life but to dismiss it as something accessory to circumstances, just exactly like the claim of abortion being a circumstantial ‘option’ supported by freedom to chose, that can ‘erase a mistake’ and so they claim it to be a right, just like Romney is implying. Being against pro-choice, does not mean being against choice, but for life. conversely being against pro-life, does mean being against it, because life is not a commodity nor it is the ownership of anyone but God and it is only up to Him to choose when and how life needs to end.

    • meteorlady

      So you believe in limited freedoms? Because that’s what you just said. You believe that since it’s wrong in your opinion, or against your religion and moral beliefs, it’s wrong for everyone. I believe its wrong, terribly wrong, but I don’t believe I have the right to tell someone they have to carry a child to full term when I am not walking in their shoes. That is between them and their God. It’s just not my right, as a person supposedly living in a free country, to tells someone else what they can and can’t do morally.

      • http://PersonalLibertyAlerts William

        I agree, I am not supporting Mitt, but I agree that the stance is too restrictive. Reagan had people in his cabinet with varying ideas and that’s what we need. we don’t need any more idealogs running the whole shebang! good for Mitt and Herman for not signing, it shows courage and honor!

    • eddie47d

      Stoll; So you say rape is an excuse and the woman needs to be punished even further. Aah! The good old boys theory that has been around for centuries. Rape and pillage and the spoils of war and few looked at it as a crime. That manly duty like in the Congo where 50 women are raped everyday and the woman is the one who pays the price.Maybe more in line with some Muslim countries where the rape victim is the criminal.”She is guilty of allowing it to happen” so she must be given the death penalty. Now in America we are “much more” civil where some demand the fetus be brought to full term and no jail time. Actually there are a few out there that want that too. Check out some of the proposed laws that have been suggested in Utah,Nebraska,the Dakotas and Oklahoma. We have a few legislators who have a Taliban mentality right here and they are deadly serious.

      • Patty

        Eddie – Pregnancy in the Congo would be a god-send, they are infecting them with AIDS. I wish people would stop using rape as “the” excuse to get an abortion. The fact is that rape very rarely and I mean very rarely results in pregnancy. Usually, because the raper normally ejaculates before they reach penetration. Rape is not about sex, it is about anger and control and the fact that they can’t hold back and pre-maturely ejaculate, shows a lack of control. Besides, when you report a rape, they take you to the hospital, do a rape kit, and offer you the morning after pill. So, can we stop with the rape excuse?

      • Patty

        Eddie – the flip side to your anology would be that there are a lot of women out there that cry rape, and were not. This type of mentality is what makes it so difficult on the ones who are actually raped. Do you think the ones who cry wolf should be prosecuted as severely as the ones who would actually commit the act of rape?

        • karolyn

          Patty – There are certainly not “a lot” of women falsely claiming rape. You’re stepping into my territory now. The statistics show that only 2% of reported rapes are false. The majority of rapes go unreported.

          • Patty

            Most of what you said is true. But the fact remains that the ones who cry wolf are the ones who make it so difficult on the true rape victims. I definitely was NOT saying that a majority of rape victims cry wolf. Sometimes, 1 bad apple does spoil the whole bunch.

          • eddie47d

            Rape is a serious offense and both sexes must show control when things get hot and heavy. When a man or women puts their hands down your pants they are not wanting to play scrabble. It’s time to shut the game down or suffer the consequences. My granddaughter(15) fell asleep at a party in February and was raped. The trial is next week. It’s puts her in an awkward situation because she had no business being there. I will stand by her but I do hope that this fella doesn’t get too high a sentence but enough to teach them both a lesson.

          • Patty

            Eddie – I don’t think you are getting the whole story. If he raped her, he should room with Bubba for a while and be his girlfriend. If she let petting get to far and got scared (no protection, possible pregnancy) “cry wolf”, than he should not be charged. It should have no bearing on whether she should have been there or not. I am sure once the facts are presented, it will be worked out properly. Karolyn, this is one of those instances I was referring to about possibly crying wolf.

    • Elle

      If one is in favor to keep abortion legal in cases of rape. Why kill the baby? The rapist doesn’t get the death penalty. The baby is completely innocent, this is insane.

  • Elevenarrows

    Henry Ledbetter and Joe:

    It is encouraging to see there are still “a few good men”!

  • http://personalliberty.com Jerry

    Ron Paul is the one and only real candidate. He will do all he can to support life and Liberty!

    • skippy

      Hey Jerry…just wondering…ummmm….are you trying to tell us SOMEHTING??!!!! LOL…just kiddin. yep, I have to agree with you. He appears to have morals & beliefs that I can agree with.

    • newspooner

      Just in case anyone is worried about Ron Paul’s health and abilities, I can report that he is as healthy as ever and still totally on focus. I was with him for 2 hours a few days before he announced his candidacy, and our conversation was as good as any that we had in the 1970′s or 1980′s. He has lost nothing. He is still 100% solid.

      • skippy

        hey, news…how old is he (ron)??? and can you remind us how old RONNIE was when he was elected as one of our greatest presidents in “recent” years???!!!

        • Patty

          Skip – he will be 77 in 2012. Here is a short, good article on “old” people doing extrodinarily great things. If you have a reason to live, you will. And Ron Paul has a reason.
          http://dougwead.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/is-ron-paul-too-old-to-run-for-president/

          • skippy

            thanks patty…so, do you recall how old Ron Reagan was when he ran??? (he turned out great I think!!!)

          • Patty

            Yippy Skippy…..If you would have read the article, it was easy and short, you would have known that it states Reagan left office when he was 78. 2 terms served, he was around 70 when 1st elected. Geesh.

    • Blueshoes

      Hey Jerry,

      Knock of the clap-trap. You’re beginning to sound like a Kool-Aid drinking ObamaBot. Try saying something of substance for a change!

  • m allen

    Anti-abortion is important, but if we conservatives try to push our agenda now we will loooooooooooose the presidential race!!! Get off the abortion argument now. Our focus to beat obama needs to be the ECONOMY and his illegal tactics inthe middle east. After we put a true republican in the presidential office,not a RINO!!! Then we can start pushing our conservative social agenda…. We have to do it just like obama did when he brought our country down to a new low. ALSO to hell with “bridging the isles”. We take it, we do what we want, just like the democraps did…

    • Patty

      And don’t let the MSM push the abortion agenda either!

  • Thor

    Romney’s liberalism on this issue illustrates precisely what is wrong with the Republican Party: in trying to pander to a progressive centrist, compromising view, it has lost its perspective! Here’s the test of conservative loyalties…and the less conservative you are, the less Republican!

    The Political Affiliation Test

    There are three possible answers to each hot-button issue—“Agree,” “Disagree,” or “It’s not the government’s business (NGB).”

    1. Abortion should be illegal except in very rare circumstances. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    2. The Government should be required to operate on a balanced budget (that is, it should not be allowed to spend more than it takes in tax revenue). Agree—Disagree—NGB
    3. The Constitution means the same thing today that it meant when it was written. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    4. The Second Amendment gives individuals the right to bear arms and that right cannot be ‘infringed’ (to defeat, frustrate or encroach upon) except for convicted felons. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    5. Allowing prayer in and around government buildings and entities funded by tax dollars—without requiring participation—does not violate the ‘establishment clause’ of the first Amendment. Laws and judgments that restrict or prohibit public prayer violate the ‘free speech clause.’ Agree—Disagree—NGB
    6. All laws should be passed by Congress free of riders and all amendments to bills must pertain to the subject of the bill; all separate issues should be debated as separate legislation. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    7. Social Security should be returned to its ‘pre-1964’ status as ‘government retirement insurance paid for by a separate premium tax’ for the purpose of insuring the welfare of ‘widows and orphans.’ That means taking the proceeds from the Social Security Tax out of the general fund and returning it to a separate SSI coffer and returning the eligibility requirements to ‘pre-1964’ parameters. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    8. The War Powers Act acknowledges the President is the Commander and Chief of All US Armed Forces but limits his authority to engage in punitive action to only imminent threats to the sovereignty of the US. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    9. The Federal Government should be only as large as needed to maintain infrastructure, insure a healthy free market economy, keep the peace and protect citizens in foreign and domestic issues. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    10. Marriage is not a right but a privilege restricted by legal proscriptions based on the traditional view that it should only be sanctioned between one man and one woman. It is a licensing issue that is a State’s rights’ issue and should remain so under a Federal Republic. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    11. The criminal laws of this country apply equally to everyone and there is no need to enhance criminal penalties with ‘Hate Crime’ legislation. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    12. Displaying The Ten Commandments in public buildings is a testament to their historic influence on American Jurisprudence and Law and not a government endorsement of religion; therefore, there is no violation of the ‘establishment clause.’ Agree—Disagree—NGB
    13. The Death Penalty is not a so-called deterrent but an absolute means to protect the public from those who constitute an imminent threat by the actions for which they have been lawfully convicted. It should be proscribed by law in every state and used to protect the public in only the most heinous cases of a confirmed imminent threat. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    14. The Rules of Evidence in US Criminal Courts need to be amended to reflect the practical reality that a person’s right to privacy is neither legally nor morally more important than a person’s right to protect himself (or the public at large) from criminal actions or to administer and proscribe just punishment for those convicted of crimes against persons. Agree—Disagree—NGB
    15. Obtaining Federal money or subsidies through grants, loans and scholarships is an individual right. The individual, having an equal right to obtain such funds under established legal parameters as anyone else, has in addition the right to apply that money at any licensed university, religious or secular; and the application to a religiously based institution does not violate the ‘establishment clause.’ Agree—Disagree—NGB

    Tally: Agree_______Disagree______Not Government Business______.

    The interpretation of the results is as follows: Conservative Republicans will have 15 ‘Agrees.’ Liberal Democrats will have 15 ‘Disagrees.’ And all Libertarians will have mixed results due largely to the wording of the foibles. As these issues are stated in absolute terms and often cannot be viewed as ‘not the government’s business,’ Libertarians will perhaps agree with Republicans on some issues and Democrats on others and if undecided may fall back on ‘NGB.’ Those who view themselves either as Republican or Democrat before taking the test but who obtain mixed results should view their responses as inconsistently conservative or liberal and not necessarily inconsistently Democratic or Republican. Both parties move to center when it suits them to gain political currency in votes; and, as the foibles are worded conservatively, anyone viewing the issue liberally would disagree with each as stated. But mixed results indicate inconsistent thought. If one agrees with a majority of the issues as stated then he or she is ‘right’ leaning and ‘left’ leaning in disagreement or NGB. Most individual dissatisfaction with politics today stems from inconsistent thought and personal conviction on these views, a frustration due to incompatible moral tenets. The remedy then is to closely re-examine each issue in which you do not take the ‘side’ consistent with the others and strive to find some way to justify thinking that is consistent.
    In the final analysis, consistency eliminates moral and political frustration—which is why we find those who are happiest with their political persuasion at the extremes. They have reconciled all inconsistencies. Romney’s willingness to equivocate on a core conservative issue like abortion is a sure sign he is not conservative; and if he is not conservative and cannot call himself a Democrat then he needs coin a new term for what he is–to be honest to himself and us!

    • whisperingsage

      Thor;
      This is a wonderful test. May I print it and hand it out?
      I only have one thing to point out, #4, right to bear arms, the Constitution DOESN’T say convicted felons don’t have a right to a gun. Think about this. Felons have the other rights, but why not that one? Not all felons have had gun related offenses. I have a church member, a woman in her 60′s, who had a meth charge and lost her gun. She is out in the desert on solar power, no neighbors for miles (like many of us here) there are mountain lions, coyotes and bad men that mean you harm here (I have too many stories). Why should a former meth user be denied the right to defend herself?
      In the old days I believe the practice was when you let the criminal out of jail, you gave him his gun back, in the old west anyway.

      And the OT Biblical viewpoint is, you paid your due (eye for an eye, give the sheep back, etc) and you were done. You didn’t have years of sitting in jail, and years afterward being denied normal rights. That Paul was in jail for years was a fact of the Roman Gov, not the rules set down by God.

      • Thor

        Good point about number four. Actually, a states’ rights issue…but don’t know of a single state that does not make statutory law against possession of arms by convicted felons; they also lose the right to vote in most states–both, to continue paying their debts to society. Anyhow…use the test if you like. Thanks.

        • ValDM

          Actually, ex-cons (dependent on their crime) CAN get their voting rights back, after they have served their complete sentence. It involves a bunch of hoop jumping & a hearing with a judge, but they CAN get their voting rights back.

  • Chuck Lehmann

    Of all the important things that are facing our country, abortion is way down on the list. This topic should not be part of the presidential campaign. Jobs, the economy, the erosion of our personal liberty, excessive government regulations are all much more important than to get bogged down in a philosophical debate about abortion. One size does not fit all, the same goes with signing a pledge made up by somebody else. Romney has stated his views on the subject and you should either accept his views or reject them. Remember Reaqan’s “80% solution”, if you can agree with a candidate on 80% of the issues there’s no need to not vote for that candidate. Nobody will meet a 100% approval rate so use your common sense in choosing a candidate that would be best able to beat that fraud in the White House.

    http://chuckontherightside.blogspot.com/

    Chuck Lehmann

    • Thor

      Looks like you’ve fallen for the progressive ploy, Chuck: divide the issues to conquer conservatives. Pro-life is a core value that cannot be marginalized. As long as we are willing to debate the issues separately, we lose the ideological fight! Conservative values are a package deal–not individual issues. That’s the very reason Republicans are loosing…too much relativism and equivocation!

      • Jbb

        Exactly!! Well said.

        • eddie47d

          So Thor is saying to Comrade Mitt that you better tow the line and follow the party line 100% or pay the consequences. So much for free thinking Americans. If Mitt refuses to close his mind to the inconsistencies in that pledge and still does sign it then that would please Comrade Thor. If not he will receive 100 lashes and banished to California. Oops! He already has a home there so maybe you could ship him off to Siberia. LOL This is where I have trouble with Conservatives where it is all or nothing and your every thought is controlled by them.

          • Thor

            As usual, eddie, my friend, you have ‘free thinking’ mixed up with ‘equivocation’ and ‘relativistic indecisiveness.’ It is not free thought to deny the absolute truth of moral principles. The only thing free about them is whether or not to embrace them–which you have the freewill to do. Just be honest about it…that’s all I ask.

  • whisperingsage

    Ah! but since when did hospitals need Federal funding? Hmmmmm? That IS a Constitutional point.

  • American Citizen

    The pledge should be changed to take out the ambiguity and the reason Romney and others did not vote for it. However, even if he had signed it, I still do not want him as the candidate against Obama. I’d only vote for him as the last resort.

  • whisperingsage

    John Stormer (author of None Dare Call It Treason)once spoke to a group and asked if they supported going back to the Constitution. Everybody raised their hands. Then he explained what they would have to give up to live by the Constitution and asked the question again. About 3 people raised their hands after his talk.

    • Patty

      I would have to hear that lecture first. Sounds like he did a lot of interpreting of his own. And was speaking to a bunch of sheeple.

      • eddie47d

        Things change for we once had Slavery so we can’t look at life through a steel trap.

        • Patty

          What? Explain please. The more things change, the more they remain the same….

        • ValDM

          If you’d care to look, we STILL have slavery………it’s called confiscatory taxes, that you won’t be able to pay off—um forever?

        • Patty

          Exactly ValDM! So Eddie, do you consider our gov’t. as enslaving everyone with debt that our children’s children will not be able to pay off?

  • JACK3889

    I THOUGHT MORMAN’S FOLLOWD GOD’S LAWS. I SERIOSLY DOUBT 68% WHO CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIANS WILL VOTE FOR ANYONE WHO DEMONSTRATES THAT THEY ARE OTHER THAN CHRISTIAN. THE MUSLIM OBAMA FOOLED ALOT WHO VOTED FOR HIM. I THINK MOST WILL BE MORE CAREFUL AND DISCERNING IN ALL ELECTIONS TO COME. ROMNEY DOULD NOT BEAT A WEAK MC CAIN LAST PRIMARY. IT’S A WEAK LOT IN THE GOP PRIMARY TO DATE.

    • Patty

      Except for Ron Paul.

  • James

    In Roe v. Wade, the Supeme Court said expectant mothers have the right to abort their fetus. Prior to that every state said such aborting was a criminal offense.

    • karolyn

      And??????

      • James

        The Supreme Court has overruled Christian America.

    • Patty

      Please. Can we just stop. In the “old days”, the more well to do went to the Dr. and had a DNC instead of an “abortion”. You should not kill babies, but there is a higher power that will deal with you, we do not need to.

  • 45caliber

    I tend to think that Romney is a Democrat flying under GOP colors in an attempt to split the GOP vote and give whoever is running for a Democrat position the win.

    • meteorlady

      That’s why the press is touting him as the front runner when he’s not. Ron Paul just won a straw poll and do you see the press all over that?

      • Patty

        They pander to the sheeple.

  • BKWsr

    To all you people who claim to be on the position of GOD, Who made you Jesus, or even the judge, or jury. Be careful about these people who love to make laws supposidly in our lords name. These are the people who would create laws that say you will believe exacly in this way, You will go to church every day at such an such time. You will pray exactly this way, and this will be your church. If you think this is a joke you are lost. There are groups out there that want do just that such as the moral majority and others like them. How can you say you believe in GOD and condemn abortion yet go and kill a Dr. who is a husband, and father, and inocent by standers. Whose the hypacrite. All this in the name of anti-abortion and GOD. This is not the issue of what makes a good President for the US. Morality is important, But is not everything. We need someone who will support the Constitution of the United States, Give US our rights back. As to Taxes, I am tired of high Taxes. As to the poor who have a lot of children, Its not my fault that you have not figured out that unprotected sex equals pregnancy equals children. Why should I have to pay for your ignorance. Get of your lazy backside and get a job. If we do not get organised as a party, and don’t settle our differences we can hang it up. Its over.

    • Jbb

      Your ignorance is astounding. You are the typical “Christian” who creates God in YOUR own image and picks and chooses which things you like that God says and which things you don’t like. Shaky ground.

      • BKWsr

        You need to read what I wrote, As to being christian, your the first to have called me that, But I am not getting in that debate with you. I have read the bible, King James version(a few times) and I stick by what I say. The bible states clearly about judging others, Read Matthew 7 1&2. The only time I believe we are in place to judge another man is when it is time to sit on a jury.

    • Patty

      BKW – I agree with most everything you said, except I don’t know anyone (sane) who agreed with the killing of any human over abortion. That was the MSM pushing that agenda onto the “right” saying they condoned it because they do not believe in abortion “rights”. That is just another flagrant abuse of the MSM. Oh what a tangled web we weave….

    • Jbb

      I can’t help it! This just begs for a reply.
      God has indeed decided what is right or wrong. And where do you find out what he thinks? Do you just decide for yourself or do you have some kind of historical guidance based on eye witness accounts of those who learned from Jesus?
      Morality is not important? Show me one verse that proclaims that. How does one decide anything without a moral base? Do you just vote like they do on American Idol and whatever gets the most votes is declared “right”? Whoa. Now that’s scary. Lack of a moral center opens one up to pressure from outer sources, like money or lobbyists or those who want to better themselves politically.
      We’re not talking about minor issues like what day do you go to church or synagogue. We are talking about LIFE. How much more basic and important does it have to be?

      • BKWsr

        I am not claiming I know what GOD is thinking. Nor am I saying morality is not important, only that it is not the most important.

      • Patty

        I believe some here are confusing “moral” and “righteous”.
        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moral

    • http://PersonalLibertyAlerts William

      You sound like an angry agnostic! Thou shall not commit murder (not kill as a lot people believe). Abortion is murder. I can see exceptions, which go against a lot of other Christians, but to use abortion for birth control is murder!

  • steve in AZ

    Regardless of one’s stance on abortion, federal involvement (funding) is wrong.

    Make it a state’s rights issue – then if any state allows abortion and you feel you may have to have one at some point, move to that state and stay there. If there is no state that allows abortion, I guess you can go to China – life is pretty cheap there, as it must be to anyone who chooses abortion.

    Responsibility for your sexual activities, and adoption are options as well.

    • steve in AZ

      And, oh yeah – VOTE RON PAUL 2012!!!

    • meteorlady

      I totally agree that I do not want my tax dollars to go for ANYONE to have an abortion. It’s unfair that I would have to work for something that I believe is wrong on all levels.

      Still, I do defend their right to have one because it’s a moral and religious issue and they may not believe as I do. That is true freedom.

      • steve in AZ

        Yes, meteorlady, that may be your definition of “true freedom”. I was taught that my freedom ends where another person’s begins.

        Because a fetus can’t shoot back or defend himself doesn’t mean he isn’t a person. When it can be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that fetuses are not person’s, I may change my opinion. Since that won’t happen, can’t we leave the barbaric practice of abortion to those who are avowed barbarians – like the third world countries of the world?

        You must stand for something, or you’ll fall for anything.

        You do not increase in stature in my eyes for being a “social liberal”. I believe in live and let live,too, as you espoused in your last post. So why is it difficult for you to take a stand that allows the unborn to live?

        • eddie47d

          Meteorlady is very Conservative yet acknowledges the will of all humans. One size does not fit all and no one but God can interpret the moral high ground. Those who do not believe in abortion should be respected for their views but they shouldn’t be so high and mighty as to force their will on someone else.

          • steve in AZ

            Last time I checked nobody “believes in abortion”. Some do practice it however, and cower behind the false premise that it is a “choice”. Murder is NEVER a choice that should be condoned in any civilized society.

            There is always a right and a wrong,regardless of one’s desire to acknowledge it. Even if viable options didn’t exist, there is NO possible justification for murder of an unborn fetus, as there is no possible justification of murder of any of our fellow human beings.

            Social liberalism is as dastardly or even more so than political liberalism. Fuzzy thinking (or lack of thinking) and failure to acknowledge objective reality can never justify immoral behavior.You have no responsibility to think? Then you have little likelihood of existing, except that which your liberal government can afford you – which is none at all.

            Certainly the Federal Government should never have any power to fund or advocate abortions under any guise whatever.

          • eddie47d

            No one believes in war either and I do my best to argue against them. The reality is that they will continue although we do have the capabilities to slow them down. I feel the same about abortion although that involves an individuals choice of action. Our government(unlike China) doesn’t tell anyone to get an abortion but they can force you to kill in a war you don’t like.

          • Jay

            Our government(unlike China) doesn’t tell anyone to get an abortion but they can force you to kill in a war you don’t like.

            Eddie, that’s ridiculous! Our government cannot, and does not, force anyone to kill in a war you don’t like! Are you feeling ok? Its not like you to be making such off-the- wall statements. Frankly, I’m a little worried about you!

      • GregS

        meteorlady says:

        “…it’s a moral and religious issue…”

        meteorlady, it’s a HUMAN LIFE issue, NOT just a moral or religious issue. There are atheists who are pro-life.

        Furthermore, even if it were just a moral or religious issue, as I mentioned previously, all of our laws are based on morals and Judeo-Christian beliefs.

    • James

      Steve, The Roe v. Wade High Court decision applies to all states. Every Ameican female now has the right to abort her fetus. Before that decision all States had oulawed it. The Court held that infants don’t have rights until they are citizens, and they aren’t citizens until they are born.

      • steve in AZ

        James – stop and think a bit before you take me to American History 101 please.

        Decisions by a rotten Supreme Court, as part of a government drunk with power, don’t alter morality in the least.

        And, lest you think I am a knee-jerk reactionary, would that Supreme Court you mention be a part of the same government that chooses to refrain from enforcing our borders against illegal immigration? By your logic, if only citizens have rights, then any American citizen could not be tried for the murder of an illegal border crosser who has no rights, correct? After all, illegal immigrants are not citizens and so, according to your statement above, we should be able to eradicate them on sight. Want to think that through a bit more?

        • eddie47d

          Steve; We have had lynch mobs and vigilante groups in the USA and innocents lives were hung without a trial to satisfy the thirst of vengeance. Maybe you should be thinking this out.

          • Patty

            eddie – better yet, why don’t you go tell the people on the border who have had husbands killed, family members ransomed, raped, maimed, untold property damage, etc. that. Love to see the reception you would get.
            Those ranchers put in gates and watering holes for these people so as to reduce property damage, and this is thier payback. Again, there are givers and there are takers and the ones coming over the border are takers from the trespassing all the way through our social system.

          • steve in AZ

            maybe you should, Ed – unless two wrongs somehow make a right.

        • James

          Steve, I wasn’t condoning Roe v. Wade, I was explaining how the High Court reasoned. The 14th Amendment states: “All persons born…in the United States…are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” Until that’s changed to “All persons conceived…etc., it will continue to be held that only those born are citizens, who have rights. If conception created a citizen, then aborting such fetus would be murder, because it would then be a citizen.

  • http://AOL.COM FRENCHIE

    WELL, HERE WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE “SPLITS” I HAVE WITH CONVENTIONAL REPUBLICAN PARTY DOGMA. FIRST OFF, LET ME SAY THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN ABORTION & BELIEVE IT TO BE MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE. THAT BEING SAID, I ALSO BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN’T (& SHOULDN’T) ATTEMPT TO LEGISLATE MORALITY. IT INTERFERES TOO MUCH WITH GOD GIVEN FREE WILL & FREEDOM OF CHOICE. I MEAN REALLY, YOU CAN TALK ALL DAY ABOUT LESSENING THE REACH, SIZE, & SCOPE OF GOVERNMENT. BUT THEN YOU WANT TO PASS LEGISLATION BASED ON SOME FORM OF “CHRISTIAN MORALITY” ? WELL, NOT ONLY HAVE YOU EFFECTIVELY INTERFERED WITH FREE WILL & CREATED MORE GOVERNMENTAL RED TAPE, BUT YOU HAVE ALSO CROSSED THE LINE ON THE PRINCIPLE OF “SEPERATION OF CHURCH & STATE”. YEAH, I KNOW THAT LINE GETS CROSSED ON A DAILY BASIS IN WASHINGTON, BUT IT DOESN’T MAKE IT RIGHT. IF A WOMAN HAS AN ABORTION, IT MAY NOT BE (& ISN’T) RIGHT. BUT WHO THE HELL IS THE GOVERNMENT TO STICK THEIR NOSES INTO A WOMAN’S WOMB & DENY HER RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF CHOICE ? THAT’S SOMETHING FOR HER TO TAKE UP WITH GOD & ANSWER FOR ON JUDGEMENT DAY. NOT SOMETHING SHE SHOULD HAVE TO ANSWER TO A CONGRESSIONAL OR SENATE COMMITTEE, OR EVEN A JUDGE ABOUT. AS I PREVIOUSLY STATED, I’M NOT FOR ABORTION AT ALL & FEEL THAT IT’S AN ABOMINATION. BUT I ALSO FEEL THAT IT’S BETWEEN A WOMAN & GOD, WITH THE GOVERNMENT HAVING NO PLACE IN THE EQUATION WHAT-SO-EVER. IT’S JUST ONE OF THOSE “LET IT GO & LET GOD DEAL WITH IT” TYPE OF THINGS. IT HAS NO PLACE IN THE POLITICAL ARENA AT ALL & SHOULD BE A NON-ISSUE IN DETERMINING ELECTABILITY ON GROUNDS THAT IT INTERFERES WITH THE GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO FREEDOM OF CHOICE. ALL AMERICANS ARE (SUPPOSEDLY) GUARANTEED THIS BY OUR BIRTHRIGHT AS AMERICAN CITIZENS. EMOTIONS RUN HIGH ON EITHER SIDE OF THIS BATTLE, WHICH I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND. I’M FIRMLY AGAINST IT, BUT I’M EVEN MORE AGAINST GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION THAT RESTRICTS FREEDOM OF CHOICE INSIDE A WOMAN’S OWN BODY. ONCE AGAIN, IT’S NOT RIGHT BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION…BUT THEN, NEITHER IS THE GOVERNMENT BEING INVOLVED IN IT. UNLESS IT IS TO LEGISLATE THAT IT’S A FREE WILL DECISION THAT FALLS SOLELY ON THOSE IMMEDIATELY CONCERNED, & THEN BACK OUT OF IT ENTIRELY FOR THE LAST TIME. GOD WILL HAVE THE LAST WORD WHEN THE TIME COMES !!!

    • Patty

      I agree totally with you on this. I just wish that those women would have had the foresight to not get pregnant. Once she made the decision to have unprotected sex resulting in a pregnancy, she gave up her right to “her body” because she made the decision to have sex and the result is she shares her body with the fetus. As you said, you cannot legislate morality. I just know so many women who later regretted thier decision and spend the rest of thier life with “could have” beens. The issue does not belong in the public sector.

  • meteorlady

    Cute out he gave. “its well-meaning pledge is overly broad and would have unintended consequences.” AND the consequence are? If it’s good enough for all the other candidates to sign, why not him? Because he’s not truly a Conservative.

    I, on the other hand am a Libertarian. I believe in a womens’ rights even though it goes against my core values. I hate the very thought of abortion, but it’s not my body, not my life, and I certainly should have no say in what someone else does who has different values and beliefs than I do. With that said, I’m sure I’m going to get a lot of comments, but hey – we are either free from moral judgements and values, or we are not. Freedom means accepting that someone else has different views and moral values than you do and learning to live with that.

    • karolyn

      Amen!

    • Patty

      We may be free of moral judgements in an earthly sense….but all will face thier judgement day. Thank goodness, it is not my job.

      • meteorlady

        I agree with that statement. What I do in this life, whether legislated or not, it between me and my God. No one else has a right to tell me what is right or wrong based on their belief system. How do you know you are right? What proof is there? That’s my point. I believe one thing and someone else believes another – that does not make it OK to legislate my beliefs on them.

        and YES thank goodness it’s not my job, but it certainly seems that a lot of religious people believe it is their job.

        • hicusdicus

          The real issue here is not abortion but unwanted pregnancies. If the woman kept her legs together and the man his pants zipped up we would have no controversy. Morals and restraint are the issue. In general people have few morals and no restraint and abortion is the result. The homo’s don’t worry about unwanted pregnancies just Aids. God has set it up that if it feels to good its going to have a down side and that can not be legislated against.

    • American Citizen

      The problem with abortion is that someone else’s life IS involved. Aren’t you glad your mother did not get an abortion when she found she was pregnant with you?

      • Allan

        Right on American Citizen. It’s all about denial.

        • GregS

          Exactly!

      • GregS

        Well said, AC!

      • hicusdicus

        If my mother had an abortion I would never have known. So what is the point of this silly comment?

        • GregS

          The point is that her mother did NOT have an abortion! And since she IS here, she has every reason to be glad that her mother did NOT have an abortion!

  • Flying Eagle

    Agree with Chuck Lehman, abortion comes second to the Deficit, the economy and all the ills created by Obummer. I am a Goldwater conservative and pro-life, I also always followed Reagan’s tenet; my own opinion is every citizen has the right to accept or refuse what is being proposed to him/her, remember we have to preserve our freedom of expression. The voter is the one who has to decide for whom to vote and once a politician is elected to become President of this country, between him and Congress will decide which will be the policy to follow. I don’t criticise and/or defend those who did not want to sign, that doesn’t mean they are unpatriotic or pro-choise, they just have a different view and it has to be respected.

    It is your choice to vote for the candidate you like, but remember vote patriotic.

    LAUS DEO
    SEMPER FI!!!

  • Reid

    One of the main reasons Mitt refused to sign it was that it was too restrictive. It required that all his appointments be required to be anti-abortion. If he found a qualified person for Sec. of Interior, for example, what difference would it make if they were pro-abortion. The two have nothing in common. I’m glad that both he and Herm Cain could see through it. That’s just one of the reasons I’m supporting Mitt and will continue to do so.

    • Thor

      That is the very kind of reasoning that has gotten Republicans into the sordid fix they are in. Learn to recognize a non sequiteur argument when you see one. The excuse or argument presupposes that there is no candidate available for the post that is both qualified and anti-abortion. What’s the likelihood of that? Nil.

    • Patty

      No. He didn’t sign it because he was pandering to another voter base that would otherwise be out of his reach.

  • DailyIdahonian

    This topic is always a fierce debate amongst conservatives and I always find it SO odd that…. we have children STARVING in America… but they don’t want to bring troops home to protect America and save that war mongering money to pay for our childrens food. Or to help with our housing etc. Children are being BOMBED every day and killed… which is more horrendous to me than abortion – but ho-hum… that’s another country. If life is so so sanctified… then why don’t we get it that WHAT IS HERE should be taken care of…. and if parents choose not to bring another child into the world they cannot take care of – it saves resources and love etc for the children that are here. All those people out bombing the clinics should go adopt a child that’s had one leg blow off in afghanistan, or a crack baby here that the mother should have known better than to produce…. How in heavens name can THIS be the topic that divides Repubs when our country is slipping down the economic, moral (big government/banks) and spiritual drain?

    • Patty

      Daily – with 1 out of 3 kids being considered over weight orobese, there are not a whole lot of starving kids. Not that we should have even 1. Just saying…

  • Rick

    EVERYONE. HEADS UP.

    Robert Smith is posting a URL in this blog that has to do with boycotting Fox News.

    DO NOT….I REPEAT (EMPHATICALLY)…DO NOT OPEN OR ACCESS THIS URL!!!

    I did last night to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding some facts and within 30 seconds my home computer was TOAST!! I run Kaspersky on my computers. I had alerts popping up all over the place that a virus had been detected, some program was trying to access a UDP (that’s a type of port and is related to protocols), and different windows started to pop up to block the attack. As soon as I clicked on one of the windows my desktop went “POOF”. I’ve been trying since to recover but to no avail. All my files are gone, my workspace is clear, and the “task manager” shows 2 users active but I can’t close either of them out. I’ve run kaspersky 5 times now to no avail. My restore points have been removed and no files can be located even though my hard drive is full. I cannot even access the directory tree. This virus/malware is serious CRAP!!

    For EVERYONES benefit. DO NOT OPEN ANY URLs PROVIDED BY ROBERT SMITH OR ANY URLs INDICATING A TOPIC OF BOYCOTT AGAINST FOX NEWS AS A MINIMUM PRECAUTION. I would seriously be skeptical of any URLs posted by any of the Progressive Liberalretards on this site.

    Be forewarned!! All I have for a computer now is my laptop. If I knew where Mr. Smith resided I’d be slamming him with federal charges for promulgating this virus and then go after him for reparations.

    • karolyn

      Robert Smith has not been here today.

      • Rick

        I posting this to all threads for today to make sure the warning gets out.

        • karolyn

          Rick – Looks like your warning is being pulled. It’s disappeared.

          • karolyn

            Oops! Now it’s back!

      • Jay

        I’ve seen that [removed], robert smith, in another room. [removed]

  • Bob Marshall

    Being brought up by a mother who read the bible throughout 10 times and my grandmother 17 times before her demise i was taught to follow the teachings of Jesus and the lessons of the writers of the Bible. I have done a lot of things in my life but trying to live a Christian life has been most difficult at times.I believe abortion for any other reason than to save the life of the mother or child is murder.with all the preventative measures available today for men and women, young men and young women i find it inexcusable for either a woman or young lady to become pregnant. Being irresponsbile is not an excuse.A life to God is precious as it should be to us.

  • Louis Marin

    In regards to your Republican Presidential Nominee: Who Should Win email today, I am VERY concerned why you conveniently left Herman Cain off your list… It is this kind of behavior that makes the TEA Party look bad… Please explain???

    Louis Marin
    Registered Republican Voter
    TEA Party Supporter & Coordinator
    Retired U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officer
    Direct: (321) 228-2800

  • http://www.metaphysicscollege.com Jim Grant

    Good for Rommney, not a fan of his but at least he is sayiing there more important isssue, if you a priest for President go to the Vacitan. They already one as head of the city.
    It is apparent none of you have ever seen a woman bleed to death from a blootched back alley abortion. Luckily today we do not have as many of those as we use to have.
    Planned parenthood does much more than doing abortions.
    Late abortion I feel should not be allowed.
    Certainly abortions should be allowed for rape victims and incest.
    I suppose since the Biible belt is controlling the GOP I will have find another party.
    DrJG

    • Jay

      Jim [removed] Have you seen a woman bleed to death from a back alley botched abortion? You sound like a brain washed abortionites!

      • Tom Raines

        asfar as women bleeding to death in back alleys we have a better educated public on this matter now,but that said I beleive in personal responsibility ,and If they choose an ilegal,unsafe route over following the law and using the good judgement not to be doing the things that get you that way if your not prepared then I see its a bad and sad route to choose but I would still choose life and pass the laws to protect it.
        I think people should be pro-life whether thier pro-religion or not.

    • Patty

      Jim G – Most people are not against Planned Parenthood for what they do. They are against federal funding of them. Thier CEO makes over 400k plus bennies, they receive MILLIONS just from Soros and Gates. They do not need federal funding, they can stand on thier own. They also do not do mammagrams and other female services that are basic. Also, do you find it strange that they are mostly located in black neighborhoods or that thier founder is an avowed racist? Research them before you dump the party. http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm And if you do dump the party, look at the libertarian party.

    • Tom Raines

      Well I can see your point ,but there are millions of christians in this country ,that every sunday before sunday school starts that talks to each other on this issue to see where candidates stand and theres a lot of them gonna base thier vote on what they hear.
      So if thier vote really doesnt matter to you then you are 100% correct in you judgement.
      But with elections in the past decade being decided within a few thousand votes Id consider this strategy real careful!!!

  • Jay

    The issue is who decides, the woman or the state. It’s about freedom of choice.
    The abortion lobby has always realized that abortion itself is indefensible. This has forced them to argue that whether abortion is the deliberate killing of a living human being or not, is unrelated to the question of whether it should be legal. In short, they have to divert attention toward the philosophical concepts of “choice” and “who decides” because they can’t afford for the public to look at what’s being chosen and decided.

    To imply that the issue is not abortion, but choice, is to say that what’s being chosen is irrelevant. That is clearly illogical given that all choices are not equal. Choosing whether to buy a new car is vastly different than choosing whether to produce child pornography, and the morality of those choices is not affected by the eventual decision. However, the pro-choice position is that abortion becomes acceptable simply by the act of choosing to do it.

    Defenders of slavery also used this same strategy. During the 1858 Abraham Lincoln- Stephen Douglas debates, Douglas said he did not support outlawing slavery, saying, “I am now speaking of rights under the Constitution, and not of moral or religious rights. I do not discuss the morals of the people favoring slavery, but let them settle that matter for themselves. I hold that the people who favor slavery are civilized, that they bear consciences, and that they are accountable to God and their posterity and not to us. It is for them to decide therefore the moral and religious right of the slavery question for themselves within their own limits.”

    Just substitute the word abortion every place the word slavery appears, and this statement perfectly defines the pro-choice position in America today. Lincoln’s response to Douglas’ pro-choice position on slavery was, “He cannot say that he would as soon see a wrong voted up as voted down. When Judge Douglas says whoever, or whatever community, wants slaves, they have a right to them, he is perfectly logical if there is nothing wrong in the institution; but if you admit that it is wrong, he cannot logically say that anybody has a right to do a wrong.”

    Lincoln recognized that there is nothing intrinsically noble about the concept of choice, and that there are choices which a society cannot allow the individual to make.

    The fact is, before one can rightly claim that the issue is “choice” or “who decides,” he or she must first examine what’s being chosen. If it’s what color shoes to wear, that’s one thing; if it’s whether to kill another human being, that’s another. Except in self-defense, the decision about whether one human being can kill another one cannot be left up to the individual who wants to do the killing.

    Besides, this “who decides, the woman or the state” rhetoric is idiotic on its face. Laws against abortion would not let the state decide who gets abortions any more than laws against rape let the state decide who gets raped. Instead, they establish that certain behaviors are so unacceptable they must be illegal.

    Finally, as used by abortion advocates, the term “pro-choice” is both inaccurate and dishonest. In an abortion, at least three people are directly impacted: the mother, the father, and the child. The pro-choice argument is that only one is entitled to a choice. Additionally, it has never been a part of their agenda to protect any choice other than abortion. They don’t lobby for women to have the legal right to be prostitutes or use crack cocaine. Yet these laws, and thousands of others, deny women “the right to choose” just as much as laws preventing abortion would.

    source of article: http://www.deathroe.com/Pro-life_Answers/Answers.cfm?ID=1

    • GregS

      Excellent post, Jay! That whole “choice” mentality was dreamed up as a marketing strategy to get women to buy into abortion as a method of birth control, in the early 70′s, by NARAL, in a marketing agency on Madison Avenue in New York.

      • Jay

        Thanks Greg, yes, you are correct, a marketing strategy to be sure. I was about to say, a clever marketing strategy, but closer to the truth, it is a demonic marketing strategy!

        Have you heard of Dr. Bernard Nathanson?

        Here is his testimony, a must read!

        http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html

        • GregS

          Jay, yes I do know about Dr. Bernard Nathanson. He was truly a courageous man, coming over to the other side and admitting so much guilt. His tireless pro-life, pro-science advocacy will certainly be noted in the history books. May he rest in peace.

  • American Citizen

    An abortion denies the aborted baby all the other rights we have besides the right to life. So what good are all the rights we have if we’re not allowed to be born?

  • American Citizen

    Abort a baby before birth, it’s the woman’s right. Kill the baby one minute after birth and it’s murder. What’s the difference, it’s the same life.

  • Barbara

    I can’t help but wonder —- until the Morman church is pro life Romney is not going to push a pro life stand. I have never heard any Mormon support the pro life movement. If the church bishops do not promote support for a movement most members do not either.

  • FWO21

    There are too many ways to NOT get pregnant so abortion should not even be an issue. Besides, there are lots of people that would like to have a baby but for some reason are not fertile or what ever. These babies could be adopted out to good homes; and I mean good homes; not some one who will abuse them and neglect them. I feel sorry for these babies because they did not ask to be put in that position to begin with. They don’t get a choice.

    • GregS

      Well said, FWO21!

  • Henry Ledbetter

    Bob The scripture I quoted this morning was from Psalm 127:3 and suggest reading the entire Psalm to get the context. Psalm 139:13-16 will also give great insight into the mind of God and our heritage.. The other scripture, if God be for us , can be found in Romans 8:31. I would also suggest the immediate context but also the context of the entire Word of God.

  • Tom Raines

    well if he signs it now it dont mean nothing,went to dollar tree the other day and bought a book on ron paul,If your gonna vote for one of these send your jobs to china so- called establishment republicans you really should research and vote for Ron paul,out of all of these on the debate stage hes the most patriotic and follows the constitution to the letter.

  • Tom Raines

    but it scares me to trust the appointment of surpreme court judges to someone as wishy washy as romney.all he stands for is to tell people what they want to hear to get thier vote,if I was gonna support someone from mass it would be scott brown,he is right center on most issues and just left of center on others.
    Scott brown is a 1960s style democrat when the party was still pro-american

  • Lueder

    The problem as I see it is that come Nov 2012, we will have MOTS (More Of The Same) unless we that are dissatisfied with “business as usual” in Washington band together behind ONE candidate. We can handle a 3 candidate election but not a 10 candidate election. We don’t need another fiasco that happened in ’92 or ’96 (can’t remember which one) when Perot suddenly withdrew from the race at the last minute.

    As far as Romney not signing the Susan B. Anthony pledge, do you expect anything different from a wolf in sheep’s clothing? And I agree that Huntsman isn’t much better. And I am LDS. Ron Paul will get my vote.

  • jim wand

    If the world was going to come to an end and everyone had one vote to either end abortion or save the world, a bunch of these single minded nuts out there would vote to end abortion.

    • Jay

      That’s because we are of the conviction that one single human being is worth more then the entire world and universe put together! But what good could possibly come from a world where human life is considered worthless, rather, let the world end, I say! And let me guess, you would save the world, right?

      • eddie47d

        Jay; Do you support wars where entire villages are destroyed and all occupants are killed because an enemy sniper is in there? That does happen so once again an abortion is an individual choice and mass killings on that village usually come from a government or a gang of troops who are out of control. If our government is authorizing that war then you are just as guilty for the deaths. You seem to be saying that one aborted fetus is more valuable than an entire village. You are being way too self righteous in your thinking.

        • Jay

          Eddie, your statement is highly illogical and fraught with assumptions! Are you hyperventilating? First of all, how can you compare war with abortion? Second, when have you heard me state that I supported war and that a fetus is worth more then an entire village? Thirdly, why do you accuse me of being self-rightious? BTW, you call it a fetus, I prefer to use the term, person! It seems you, are the one playing a game with words, Eddie, and, what you are really saying is that, life, or a human being, deserves protection only when outside the womb. Am I correct?

          • James

            Jay, the Roe v. Wade decision wasn’t based upon morals or decency. It was based upon law, in this case the 14th Amendment, which says “All persons born…in the United States…are citizens of the United States…” and “No State shall…deprive any peson of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”
            Until one is born in the United States, s/he is not a “person” and has no right to life. Until that’s changed, as I suggested above, the Roe v. Wade decision will stand.

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