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‘Right-To-Work’ Wins In Michigan

December 21, 2012 by  

‘Right-To-Work’ Wins In Michigan
PHOTOS.COM
Republicans lawmakers introduced legislation that made Michigan the 24th “right to work” State in the Nation.

Union bosses in Michigan thought they had pulled off a real coup when they managed to get a measure on the November ballot that would have enshrined their power in the State constitution. Imagine their shock when voters overwhelmingly rejected the amendment.

That was just the beginning of the bad news for the maestros of compulsory unionism. Emboldened by the measure’s defeat, Republicans in the State Legislature promptly introduced legislation that would make Michigan the 24th “right-to-work” State in the Nation.

Union activists called on their supporters to march on the State capital to protest the proposal. Thousands of supporters showed up in Lansing in response. All of them were pretty noisy; a few were actually amusing, including the ones who put up four giant inflatable rats on the Capitol lawn bearing the names of Governor Rick Snyder and three Republican legislators.

But all was definitely not fun and games. A hospitality tent put up by Americans for Prosperity, one of the groups supporting the measure, was attacked by union partisans and torn down. At least one conservative supporter was physically attacked. A street vendor was called an “Uncle Tom” and worse and had his cart trashed for daring to sell hot dogs to the measure’s supporters.

But all the protests and threats — including one Democratic legislator who said that if the measure passed “there will be blood” — couldn’t prevent a vote from being taken. The legislation passed easily and a few hours later was signed into law by Snyder. The Governor previously had declined to support right-to-work legislation but said he changed his mind when he saw how a similar measure encouraged new jobs in other States.

The week before the vote in Michigan, President Barack Obama flew to the State and tried to rally support for the union. “What we shouldn’t be doing,” the President proclaimed, “is trying to take away your rights to bargain for better wages and working conditions.”

Of course, Obama knows that right-to-work legislation does no such thing. It doesn’t prevent anyone from joining a union, if someone wishes to do so. It doesn’t preclude unions from negotiating pay and working conditions with management, either.

What such legislation does do, however, is give an individual the choice to join or not join, to pay or not pay. And that freedom to choose is what the union bosses can’t stand. They know that if workers aren’t forced to join a union and pay dues, huge numbers won’t. That not only means they have less power in the workplace, it also means they have less money to give to politicians, whom they count on to pass legislation that protects their power.

It’s hard to ignore the fact that more and more manufacturing plants have moved to right-to-work States. Autoworkers had to have noticed when BMW built a plant in South Carolina, Mercedes-Benz did the same thing in Alabama and Volkswagen, and Nissan Motor Co. began assembling automobiles in Tennessee. Meanwhile, two of the Big Three automobile companies in Detroit declared bankruptcy and had to be rescued by Uncle Sam.

The results in the workplace support Snyder’s comments. In the past 30 years, total employment in right-to-work States grew by 71 percent, while employment in non-right-to-work States expanded less than half as much, a mere 32 percent. The differences are even more dramatic for the past decade. Since 2001, right-to-work States added 2.4 percent more workers, while employment in other States actually declined by 3.4 percent. During the same period, wages rose in right-to-work States by 12.5 percent, compared to 3.1 percent in union States.

No wonder that a whole bunch of people have been voting with their feet. Between 2000 and 2010, 5 million people moved from compulsory union States to right-to-work States. I don’t know if they all found jobs, but I’ll bet most of them did. So it appears that right-to-work is not only good for business, it’s good for workers, too.

The defeat in Michigan has to be a tremendous letdown for the United Auto Workers. The union was formed in the State and at one time had more than 1 million members. Today, its national membership is down to about 380,000. Now that workers in Michigan there can opt out of the union and know that they will still keep their job, UAW numbers — and revenue — are bound to decline even further.

Still, until recently, the right-to-work movement was pretty moribund. Prior to this year, Oklahoma was the last State to pass such legislation. And that was more than a decade ago — way back in 2001.

But that’s when union leaders made a huge mistake. Confident of their support in Washington, they tried to get Congress to pass “card-check” legislation. The measure would have done away with a secret ballot for elections on whether to unionize. Thanks to conservative gains, especially in the House of Representatives, the measure never got approved.

So then they tried another approach. They filed suit against Boeing Corp. for having the unmitigated gall to build an aircraft assembly plant in South Carolina, a right-to-work State.

Lafe Solomon, a pro-union lawyer whom Barack Obama appointed general counsel to the National Labor Relations Board, issued a complaint against Boeing for what he called an “unfair labor” practice. Public reaction to this union/Washington gambit was extremely unfavorable. Prior to 2008, Gallup polls showed 60 percent approval of unions in America. That number had been pretty consistent going back 30 years.

But in 2009, the approval number had fallen to 48 percent. Today, it’s only 52 percent. So it should come as no surprise that more and more States want to jump on the right-to-work bandwagon. The National Right to Work Committee reports that in the past two years, right-to-work legislation has been submitted in 19 States. The measures have passed in two of them, Indiana and Michigan.

In Washington, Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.) said he will introduce the National Right to Work Act in the new Congress soon after it convenes. I’m sure Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will make certain it never comes to a vote on the Senate floor — at least not next year.

But it’s impossible not to see which way the wind is blowing. And once enough Americans support freedom of choice in the workplace and see how it benefits them, maybe they’ll want the same thing for their healthcare — and even the education of their children.

So don’t despair, conservatives. If right-to-work can pass in Michigan, pro-freedom legislation is possible almost anywhere. Sooner or later, even in Washington, D.C.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    THIS IS “OFF-TOPIC,” BUT, LANSING HAS AN UGLY STATE-CAPITOL BUILDING.

    THE STATE-CAPITOL BUILDING AT PIERRE WILL ALWAYS BE “TOP-DAWG.”

    • Henry

      I love these results. Why should anyone be forced to join anything? These people call themselves “Democratic” but oppose choices as soon as they don’t agree with their agendas. Most unions have been proven to be money laundering operations for “Democratic” politicians. They have been shown to be anything but civil.

      • Jeff

        Don’t kid yourself or try to delude others. The “right to work” movement has its roots in Southern segregation, Jim Crow, and White Supremacy, all of which are probably quite popular on this blog. But don’t think for a minute the movement has anything to do with “helping” workers. If a union negotiates a good deal for workers at a factory and individual workers are free to not join the union but still receive the benefits of the union contract, the union’s survival is at stake. Guess what? That’s exactly what the business wants. And, coincidentally, of the top ten donors to political campaigns, only 3 contribute to the Democrats (all unions). “Right to work” is about destroying the labor movement and guaranteeing that no worker can achieve anything like middle class status like in the 50s and 60s.

        It is right wing social engineering, just one more instance of Republicans “redistributing” income upward. If you are a working man and you support this legislation, at least know its source.

        http://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/right-to-work

        • http://gOOGLE Dee Wood

          JEFF IS CORRECT! I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER OF A BARGAINING TEAM MANY TIMES WHO WORKED TO INCREASE THE SALARY AND BENEFITS OF PART TIME COLLEGE INSTRUCTORS AND THOSE WHO DID NOT BELONG TO THE UNION AND DID NOT CONTRIBUTE TO THE UNION GOT THE SAME BENEFITS AS THE OTHERS DID.IT WAS NOT FAIR, AS WE PAID THE TAB, AND THEY DIDN’T!

      • DaveH

        Jeff says — “Don’t kid yourself or try to delude others. The “right to work” movement has its roots in Southern segregation, Jim Crow, and White Supremacy, all of which are probably quite popular on this blog”.
        Here we go again. When the Liberal Progressives can’t get their thieving ways, they can always resort to influencing the weak-minded with misleading charges of “racism”. The article that Jeff dug up is the current technique being used by the Liberal Progressives in an effort to smear the “right to work” advocates, and the racism of Vance Muse has nothing to do with the movement. There are psychopaths and miscreants in every group of people, especially predominant in those groups who want to take advantage of others such as the Liberal Progressives.
        Here is an article which sheds some light on the Vance Muse ploy:
        http://godfatherpolitics.com/8609/chris-hayes-right-to-work-is-racist/

        All you need do is ask yourself who has the most morality — Those who want to force you to belong to an organization, or those who want to give you the Freedom of Choice (something Liberal Progressives recognize only when it comes to killing unborn children).

      • DaveH

        Dee says — “IT WAS NOT FAIR, AS WE PAID THE TAB, AND THEY DIDN’T!”.
        So let’s get this straight, Dee. If you want to spend your money on something, then everybody else should have to spend their money on that same thing? Oh wait, you’re a Liberal Progressive, so the answer is obvious.

      • Gordon

        I scanned a few entries, and it never ceases to amaze me how people on both sides of the issue don’t have a clue what they are talking about. Right to work states pay 1/3 the union wage, usually no benefits, and workers are forced to either be a slave or be unemployed. This pertains to government contract jobs also. the company I work for forces me to work in a right to work state several weeks a year and after paying my own expenses to be there, I net about $3 hr. If I don’t do it, I become permanently unemployed.

      • DaveH

        Gordon says — “I scanned a few entries, and it never ceases to amaze me how people on both sides of the issue don’t have a clue what they are talking about. Right to work states pay 1/3 the union wage”.
        Since Gordon implies that he does “have a clue”, I can only assume that he is purposely lying then. This comment on the current board puts his lie to the test:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/21/right-to-work-wins-in-michigan/#comment-789939

        Note that New Mexico (adjacent to Arizona) is a Union State while Arizona is a Right to Work State, yet New Mexico has a lower median wage than does Arizona.

      • DaveH

        Those who would like to do their own investigations can go here for state wage information:
        http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

      • DaveH

        And here for a map of the Right to Work States:
        http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm

      • Old Henry

        Say Dee, whatchall think about those 47%ers? You know, the ones who pay NO FED income tax, but get the benefits.

        How ’bout those 4th and 5th generation welfare parasites?

        How about those illegal criminal break & entering trespassors who pay nothing and enjoy all the benfits?

        • Piped Piper

          Great comeback.I could not of said it better.

      • BR549

        GM’s bailout was the government’s having to save face with the fact that state’s and municipalities had been heavily invested in the derivatives fiasco through their CAFR.

        Since the invested monies were merely propping up the theft from previous decades, the government had to find some way to convince a naive and half asleep public that it was good for America. No, it was good for those politicians who were still CLAIMING to be be Americans, but who had been violating their oaths of office for years.

        The Bailout was nothing more than a shell game to avoid discussion that the tax monies that we had been paying for years were actually funding pet projects, FEMA, COG, underground bunker cities for the politicians and wealthy, all with little or no discussion among the public, who were expected to pay for it.

        Burbank California was a textbook case of CAFR abuse, where the public found out how much investment profit the officials had been tucking away, and instead of using those profits to lower the budget, officials kept the budgets the same and were mute.

      • Randy G

        I learned a long time ago that Unions do not help workers, just their own pockets. I had a problem with some women but the supervisors supported them & I got 3 days off.

      • Peter Wieckhorst

        There is a place for both the Right to Work and for Unions but there is no place for being compelled to join anything. The presence of a union can keep the employer from trying to take an un-fair advantage of those working, While the Right to work law can keep the Union from becoming the tail that wags the dog.
        You will always have a conflict between workers and employer as each try to get a big share of the profit, that is the nature of the beast. So let there be unions and Right to Work in the long run things tend to balance out.

      • marcjeric32

        These ruling classes consist of the so-called liberals, in charge of our education system from the kindergarten to the universities, and of the communist-led government employees unions. Our university professors and their students are convinced they can do better that Lenin, Stalin, Castro, Kim Il series of dictators, Mao, and the former mass killers of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Romania, Albania, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia – the history of these victim countries completely neglected and forgotten. Our teachers unions have succeeded in the short 45 years to “educate” three generations of illiterate nincompoops who vote their “feelings” completely unaware of history, geography, philosophy, and literature.

      • Robert Smith

        Quit lying, David. “(something Liberal Progressives recognize only when it comes to killing unborn children).”

        I recognize choice when it comes to 2nd ammendment issues. And I’m also in favor of choice in paying union dues. Quite frankly I think many unions are like organized crime, the same as the top 1%. They appear to work together very well.

        Rob

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      Who cares, unions suck, they are leeches, blood sucking low lifes, a drag on real working people and need to go. Every State a right to work state, let the unions do what they do best, NOTHING. Have belonged to many and the only people they care about are those who won’t do the job they are paid to do. Like whores who want the money but, don’t put out. See you later, dumb, stupid and never worked up a sweat unions.

    • Andrew John

      Yeah, your right about that. I used to live in Austin TX and they have the second largest capital in the nation. And its beautiful.

  • Warrior

    And of course in IL the unions are “helping” the legislators “solve” the $100 bil unfunded public sector pension liabilities with, drum roll……………………..NEW TAXES!

    • eddie47d

      Another cheap shot against decent workers wages and benefits. Wasn’t the first time around enough but we do know how PLD loves spreading division by repeating things over and over. The propaganda ministers on the right are “working” overtime to destroy any vintage of fairness or decency within the traditional working class families. As it was well known union brought tremendous improvements to the average worker in America. When unions were strong America prospered and our economy soared on the world market and here at home. Maybe the old Corporates didn’t like paying a fair wage but the Middle Class grew by leaps and bounds partially from the growing benefits the unions asked for. Since the 80′s those benefits were being reversed and yes unions lost out. As time went on more benefits were taken away in union shops and non union shops all over the country. Corporates raided pension plans and took away health benefits and that continues until this day. Surprisingly (not really) the Middle Class is also disappearing with the attacks on unions but those Middle Class workers are now told to take a hike. All the while Corporate salaries and retirement packages have sky rocketed. Has America gained from this growing disparity? Hell no yet the wage levels keep widening. The economic and moral collaspe is coming from the top this time around not from unions so why you all enjoy the economic morass we are in is hard to fathom.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Another cheap shot against decent workers wages and benefits”.
        You didn’t even read the article did you, Troll?
        From Chip’s article:
        “During the same period, wages rose in right-to-work States by 12.5 percent, compared to 3.1 percent in union States”.
        People get paid more when they actually produce for their wages.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “The propaganda ministers on the right are “working” overtime to destroy any vintage of fairness or decency within the traditional working class families”.
        What was “fair and decent”, Eddie, about Unions Forcing workers to join an organization they didn’t want to join? What is “fair and decent” about Unionists harassing their company’s customers, and replacement workers who are happy to take the jobs that the Unionists spurn?
        Those replacement workers have families also, and they don’t look the gift horse (a job), from the company’s owners, in the mouth.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “As it was well known union brought tremendous improvements to the average worker in America”.
        That was Propaganda. Improvements in the workplace were coming naturally from increasing productivity brought on by Capital Investment from those nasty Capitalists that Unionists love to bash. Read this:
        http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=511

      • http://www.facebook.com/patti.patterson.52 Patti Patterson

        Back in the day, unions did good work. They brought about laws for workplace safety and living wages. Up until about 30 years ago. That is when unions leaders stopped working for the people in the union, and started working to line their own pockets by whatever means necessary. Don’t want to join a union? Get your teeth kicked in. Sorry, but with the economy the way it is, people just don’t feel that someone making twenty-five dollars an hour with full benefits should be complaining about how bad they have it. There are a lot of us that would happily take their job for half the wages.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “When unions were strong America prospered and our economy soared on the world market and here at home”.
        It was the other way around, Eddie. Increasing prosperity gave companies more profits with which to more easily please Union demands. So Unions grew. But over time both the Unions and Big Government took too much of the new gains and things have reversed. Now we are seeing the results of those parasites killing the Golden Goose.

      • eddie47d

        Dave H: Its the workers who build the products for the company and the company benefits from their labor. The workers (yes union workers too) make companies piles of money from that labor. You ALWAYS come across as an Elite always looking down on others in your smugness.

      • DaveH

        Patti,
        Unions never did good work. They were merely opportunists, and violent ones at that. Read the article I linked to above your comment.
        When Unionists gain higher wages or easier working conditions than natural market wages and working conditions, they do so at the rest of our expense. Their companies have to compensate for their higher wages by laying off other workers, or raising their product prices, or producing lesser quality products for the money, or as in the case of GM facing bankruptcy (unless Big Government with it’s deep taxpayer pockets bails them out).
        There is no Free Lunch. Somebody always has to pay the bill.

      • eddie47d

        Dave H loves the name calling “parasites” but always forgets about the parasites in the Elite class who make up to 400% more than the average American worker. Who receive ungodly bonuses which can drain a companies coffers pretty darn quick. Several companies imploded because of being top heavy and the company CEOs and upper management just couldn’t afford the wages they gave themselves. Dave H never likes to tell the whole story and is like Ben who calls union members “thugs” while ignoring the disasters brewing from the top.

        • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

          > Dave H loves the name calling “parasites” but always forgets about the parasites
          > in the Elite class who make up to 400% more than the average American worker.

          Damn… pretty messed up when you are even against the ‘elite’ class making 400% as much as the average employee. The ‘elite’ class are seriously short-changing themselves if their compensation is only 4x that of the average…

          No wonder the unions sound so unreasonable…

          – Smoov

      • Flashy

        “freedom of choice in the workplace and see how it benefits them” … Hokayyy…so tell me again how a non union workplace benefits the worker?

        5 million people moved to non-union shop states. How many moved away from those states to a pro labor state?

        Wages rose 12.5 percent in non union shop states…when one starts at the bottom, any increase will be …percent wise..larger than a number based at a higher level. This is also misleading in another way. It does not state if it was for similar buusinesses or overall state earnings taking into effect all wages from all industries. fact is …The overall per capita earnings in a non union shop state is 8.6% lower than a union state, pensions are 5.8% more likely to be underfunded and almost 11% more of the workforce in non union states are likely not to have them. There are almost 2 million more workers in non union shop states not covered by any health insurance.

        In 2009, the Economic Policy Institute conducted a study and found that most business relocations to non union shop states was not because of a union or non-union, but because the non union states were offering larger economic incentives (tax breaks, waivers on workplace regulations, etc) for the move, resulting in a n overall higher tax burden on the state population as a whole.

        Overall earnings affected by labor costs by relocated businesses show a statistical tie where any savings in labor was cancelled out in per worker productivity.

        So what are these benefits again? i guess if one is anti worker, desires to drive down living standards and earnings while creating a more hostile work environment…one would be anti union shop. If one is for the American worker, for higher living standards, and higher earnings..one will support he union movement.

        Interesting eh?

      • eddie47d

        You’re right Dave H there is no “free lunch”. Its the exploding Corporate wages and ridiculous golden parachutes they pay themselves that eventually sends a company into the toilet. Those Corporates make millions plus pay themselves bonuses even when a company isn’t doing good. Where is their responsibility? That affects the companies heath and sustainability but few are willing to change that. The auto industry didn’t tank because of workers wages because they are only paid to do what is put in front of them. The CEOs in the case of the auto industry from the 70′s and into the early 90′s built cars that the American consumers didn’t want so profits went down but the CEOs paid themselves more. The CEOs were stubborn and didn’t listen to the consumer who turned to Japanese and Korean models. That tanked the US auto industry for several years because of poor management decisions not because the workers weren’t willing to do their job. If your not selling a product because of lousy gas mileage then blame management not the workers. Thankfully that has changed and American cars are getting better but don’t lay those past mistakes on the union.

      • eddie47d

        Sure Patti there are folks who would take someone elses job at half the wages. “Scabs” are thief’s also or didn’t you think about that in taking from someone else. Until they themselves realize how hard the job is and the original wages were much fairer. Why do you think their are so many low wage jobs in America anymore. Thanks to those who push for Right to Work laws everyone will be equally miserable. Are you enjoying the new normal?

        • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

          thiefs? where do you think that job belongs to you? it doesn’t.

          If you’re not measuring up to the job, then you should be expecting to be replaced.

          You don’t own that job, it doesn’t belong to you. If you’re not willing to compete to hold onto that job, by making yourself worth keeping, then you deserve to be replaced by someone who is.

          – Smoov

      • Mikey

        I think Patti hit the nail on the head. At the turn of last century, the big industrialists treated their employees little better than slaves, while making obscene profits. Unions were very important then. Then, laws were put into place to keep businesses from taking advantage of their workers.
        These days, the pendulum has swung too far the other way with unions having too much power. They can keep lazy or unproductive employees entrenched. They keep wages higher than those of the competition. These and other union based controls on businesses can strangle the business out of existence (look at Hostess).
        There needs to be a balance between the employers and employees, and unions are no longer the right balancing tool.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Another totalitarian socialist mob rule (democracy) diatribe. Hey, eddie, how come I have never belonged to a union and have always been paid above the median income for my services? Unions destroy the incentive to excel. They are a tool of the communists to destroy freedom. Take it and shove it.

      • http://Yahoo.com Bill

        I live in California which is not a right to work state. ‘m also in a union – with the choice to belong to the union and pay dues, not belong to the union and pay dues or not pay dues and loose my job. 2 things bother me about the union. 1) It goes to bat and helps people keep their job – the ones that should be fired, and 2) my union supports the democratic party – I DO NOT and should not have to.

        • http://google gary gerke

          You are right on the money, I tired of working side by side with the lazy members that received the same pay for doing less work in a day than the other workers that had some pride! I never had to back up to collect my check!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

      • Flashy

        Bill… you can always quit. Is the reason you don’t quit because you wouldn’t be able to find another job paying the same wages?

      • kkflash

        Flashy: “How many moved away from those [non-union shop] states to a pro labor state?”

        The answer, Troll, is LESS. Census bureau statistics released just yesterday show that right-to-work states overall had 2.3% population growth, or nearly double the 1.2% growth rate of non-right-to-work states.

        http://www.michigan.gov/cgi/0,4548,7-158-54534-291725–,00.html

        And how do you presume to refer to states without right-to-work laws as “pro-labor”. States that allow unions to force workers to join and pay dues are in no way “pro-labor”. They are perhaps pro-union, but pro-union and pro-labor are not synonymous. In fact, states where unions are strongest are where business goes to die. How is preventing people from taking good jobs at above-average wages “pro-labor”? Despite your attempted manipulation of bogus statistics, unions are crushing the economy, and don’t save jobs, they lose them.

      • Texas Ride

        Unions are bad for the country and bad for the economy! Finally, people are waking up to see that it is the communists that are funning the unions. It always has been. If the union workers did their jobs instead of wanting to bankrkupt companies, the workers would be a lot better off and so would the rest of us!

        Time for unions to be abolished! It is “unfair” for a certain group to demand way beyong what the abverage workers are paid. First place, the union workers are lazy and make crazy demands. (For example: The unions demanded that certain bakery products could not be delivered on the same trucks. They had to b e delivered on different trucks with different drivers which make the costs to Hostess enormous.) Add that to the fact that union workers don’t want to work for what they get in many instances, but want to be lavishly rewarded for doing very little. And, they go as far as running a privately owned business bankrupt and 18,000 jobs were lost. There is nothing “fair” about that!

        I will say to the unions what the radicals keep saying to the country…Sacrafice for the good of all and “go away!” Your demands are bankrupting the country and like the useless people, you are one segment that is bankrupting the country with unsustainable debt. Save for your own retirment, why should I pay for you to set at home for twenty or thirty years and not work.

        Government workers should not be in any kind of a union. Pay and benefits should be comensurate wtih the private sector!, and what the economy dictates! Government slugs shouldn’t be paid any better.
        The government hires four people for one position. IN the private sector that position would be easily done by one employee.

      • kkflash

        Eddie47d, you are oblivious to the truth. While it is true that consumers have been choosing Japanese and Korean cars over US cars for decades, the reason is that those cars presented better value. Consumers got more for their money (and still do) with those foreign makes because union labor makes US cars more expensive for the same features. Without the UAW, GM would have had an average cost per automobile similar to that of non-unionized Toyota, which makes an average profit per car of $2,000, while GM makes no profit per car. In 2005, the Cincinnati Enquirer reported that the UAW contract costs GM $2,500 per car. According to CNBC television, the costs of future union healthcare burdens alone total $1,500 per car. These costs equal the difference in competitiveness between GM and Toyota. The Center for Automotive Research estimates that the Detroit automakers spend an average of $63.65 per hour on production labor (excluding buyout and jobs bank costs) while non-unionized Toyota spends an average of $47.50.
        Since I expect you’re as math-challenged as you are truth-challenged, let me elaborate on that last sentence: $63.65 x 2080 working hours = $132,392/yr for the average US union auto worker. For Toyota, that comes to $98,800/yr. If you ask any non-auto worker whether those either of those two pay scales are “fair” for semi-skilled labor, they’ll tell you that they are exorbitant. So, blaming the demise of the US auto industry on greedy execs and their pay levels is groundless, untrue bull$hit.

      • Mikey

        Eddie is only capable of reiterating leftist dogma. He has been well programmed.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “5 million people moved to non-union shop states. How many moved away from those states to a pro labor state?”.
        We will wait breathlessly for your answer to that, Flashman. Please provide references when you do since you have no credibility.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Wages rose 12.5 percent in non union shop states…when one starts at the bottom, any increase will be …percent wise..larger than a number based at a higher level. This is also misleading in another way. It does not state if it was for similar buusinesses or overall state earnings taking into effect all wages from all industries. fact is …The overall per capita earnings in a non union shop state is 8.6% lower than a union state, pensions are 5.8% more likely to be underfunded and almost 11% more of the workforce in non union states are likely not to have them. There are almost 2 million more workers in non union shop states not covered by any health insurance”.

        For that to be meaningful, Flashman, you’d have to demonstrate to us that the average wages in the Union States were actually significantly higher than those in the Non-Union States. And provide references please. You know we can’t take your word for anything.
        Especially provide references for your “underfunded” pension claims. You’ve lied to us too many times in the past for us to place faith in your figures.

      • Mikey

        And Flashy is only capable of reiterating leftist dogma. He has been well programmed, also.

      • DaveH

        Let’s take Arizona (a Right to Work state) as an example to test Flashman’s theory that Chip’s statement — “During the same period, wages rose in right-to-work States by 12.5 percent, compared to 3.1 percent in union States” — is misleading.

        Arizona has a median hourly wage of $16.40.
        California on the west side is a Union State. California has a median hourly wage of $18.52.
        New Mexico on the east side is a Union State. New Mexico has a median hourly wage of $14.92.
        For argument sake we will ignore NM since it’s wages are actually lower than AZ.
        So we apply Chip’s average percentage increase of 12.5% (for Right to Work States) to AZ wages and we get an increase of $2.05.
        Then we apply Chip’s average percentage increase of 3.1% (for Union States) to CA wages and we get an increase of only 57 cents. Also consider the fact that taxes in AZ are much lower than in CA and we don’t have to pay any damn Union Dues and put up with 2 bosses instead of one.
        Thanks, but I’ll take AZ over CA any day.
        Considering the fact that California is port side and has great weather and soil, one would think their economy would vastly overshadow that of Arizona. But it doesn’t because it is overpopulated with heavily Propagandized ignorant Liberal Followers who believe anything the Leaders tell them.

      • eddie47d

        Smoov: Where did you learn to do math (4x)? I hope you aren’t in charge of anything!

        • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

          100% = 1x
          200% = 2x
          300% = 3x
          400% = 4x
          etc etc

          where did _you_ learn to do math?

          – Smoov

      • eddie47d

        KKflash: What I said about the executives who run the company is also true. Just because you choose to ignore that fact doesn’t make in untrue.

      • eddie47d

        Oh yes Texas Ride who says decent wages =communism. Oh those darn union folks! If working for a good wage equals communism then there must be train loads of them in Corporate offices.

      • http://peronallibertydigest Robert

        Eddie 47d , its a shame that you call people that are not union members , scabs . Thats one of the issues I have with union people , Im a hard working American that loves his family , active in Church and my community , and works at a job that is non union . My wages are above average , my standard of living is very good , but in your eyes , Im a scab . There are also quite a few northeners where I work that are living quite nicely as well . I watch how union members act whenever there together picketing , protesting or whatever , and you have the nerve to call true hard working people names ? No thanks , wouldnt accept union membership even if it was free

      • WIA Ben

        eddie 69d. I repeat. Please be polite and go F$%# yourself and while you are at it eat a buffalo bagel. Most of us bloggers are not interested in your communistic, unionistic crap. GO AWAY, kenya say, maybe to Venezuela, Cuba, Russia or outer space. eddie , you are sick!

      • eddie47d

        Robert: How can you be a hard working Christian if you are willing to steal another man’s job? That’s a contradiction for you! Where did I call you a name or are you guilty of taking. I will assume you have or you wouldn’t have said what you did. A scab has nothing to do with union or non union but to take another man’s job and think nothing of it. I’m a man of faith and worked hard too so what was really your point ?

      • eddie47d

        WIA: Was the the extent of your intelligence? So typical of those on the right!

      • JeffH

        Facts On Right-To-Work Vs. Forced Union States
        Right-to-work States Outperform,1997-2007

        Right-to-work:
        *Productivity Growth – 18.6%
        *Job Growth – 17.6%
        *Economic Growth – 41.6%

        Union shop:
        *Productivity Growth – 17.3%
        *Job Growth – 8.9%
        *Economic Growth – 33.5%
        Sources: GDP by state from U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis and state employment from U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

        The ten most heavily unionized states saw 29.2% job growth and a 45.3% increase in GDP. The ten states with the lowest union concentration had substantially better economic performance: a 36% increase in private sector jobs and a 69.9% increase in GDP.

        States that have allowed this freedom experienced tremendous growth as business move their operations to states that promote a friendly business environment.

        Right to work states have had more than double the population growth of union shop states since 1990. The right to work states saw, on average, a 65.5% increase in GDP over the 16 year period while states with union shops laws only experienced an average of a 45% increase. The wages of workers in right to work states rose an average of 23% in right to work states while in union shop states average wages only rose 15%.

        http://aphiemi.wordpress.com/2009/02/20/facts-on-right-to-work-vs-forced-union-states/

      • Mikey

        Smoov,
        Did you really expect eddie to be able to do percentages? That’s math, and math requires logic. Eddie is a liberal, and they base their knowledge on emotions and feelings rather than facts or logic.

      • eddie47d

        Mikey: Smoov didn’t even come close. I’m sure that was deliberate . The average worker makes $52,000 a year and executives in some companies can make even more than 400% of that. The average is actually a little less than that, like 365%. You do the math on either figure.

        • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

          an ~400% difference between the ‘average’ worker’s pay and an ‘executive’ worker’s pay sounds pretty reasonable to me.

          the average worker is much more common and can easily be replaced, while your executive worker isn’t as common, has a LOT more responsibility to the company, and their decisions can make or break the company, while your average worker doesn’t have that kind of power.

          a good executive is hard to find. most people just aren’t cut out for that level of knowledge and responsibility.

          anyways, harping on the ~400% difference is rediculous. If you were targetting those who were at 1000% or more, then maybe your argument might carry more weight, but even then, it is the company’s right to pay their employees according to what they believe their work is worth, and to let them go if they don’t bring significant value to the company.

          – Smoov

      • JC

        “Right-To-Work’ Wins In Michigan”

        Awesome! :)

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — ““Scabs” are thief’s also”.
        Did you get ownership papers for your job?
        Thank you, Eddie, for showing the readers how totally nonsensical Union mentality can be.

      • nickkin

        It all adds up to greed eddie….whether it’s the unions or the mid- class the objectivity of the an organization goes off kilter. The more money, the more corruption. The stupidity of the union is that they didn’t have the ability to know how to wear two hats. They had a good thing going but they saw $$$$ signs for their heriarchy and decided to wear one hat to the left. Now they are sucking bloody canal water. Their tashma halls will become salvation army food kitchens and their members will benefit with the redistribution policy. They eat their own like the Hoffa ordeal and eventually will kill themselves off. History, union goons.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        eddie teddy 47 ways to be a commie, love the commie system, since he is a government welfare creep, he thinks they work? I can show many cases of union bull that it would wipe teddy eddie out. He is a commie liar and thief just like his daddy satan who was a liar from the beginning and still is. eddie teddy is one of his blind children who needs to be controlled since he can’t make it on his own, doesn’t want to be responsible and needs a nanny state to support him, Hilter would have loved him, Mao and Stalin would have adopted him as a step child who couldn’t make it without them.

      • http://yahoo dave

        my my oh eddie!
        what a valiant effort and for what? you are talking to a dummified idiot. yes what you print has a lot of truth—-but that is the least they want to hear or for the sake of santa—see!
        they would rather hammer the bum on the rod, then scourge the bum at the top. you are trying to makes sense to people that try to inject dummy seeds into their veins! these people would rather beg for a warm dinner deposit from their boss, rather than honestly work for it—while the big fat boss is pulling up his shorts and laughing with a big fat cigar–this poor little me me guy is taking home that warm feeling in his guts only to regurgitate it to his wife and family. now that both —of the family is now having to work,guess what i already know??????????

      • DaveH

        Dave says — “what a valiant effort and for what? you are talking to a dummified idiot……..”.
        Thank you, Dave, for adding yet another example of Liberal Progressive nonsense to the board so the regular Folks can learn what you guys are really made of.

        • http://yahoo dave

          Dave H—don’t really think you are one of the regular “GUYS”!
          you seem to be more of a lunatic crazy-all my way & it’s only my way!!!!!!!!!!!!
          what a fool you are to assume that i am a liberal’- progressive is ok for me—which is better than re-gressive!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as you speak such ignorance and 100% stupidity
          i know where your dinner comes from!

      • http://wildblue.net Bungal

        This is not Eddie Hasskle of Leave It to Beaver fame, is it? First off, any worker or employer has a right to work for who they may as it is part of our Constitutional rights! No union has the right to insist that all for any employer join the union. How can anyone trust organizations that have great MOB affiliation with them? We notice Obama does not mention our own freedoms as workers!

        The MOB needed some businesses that would give them some kind of credibility and unions were already being used in part so they went all the way. I am a UAW man and retiree but the largest UAW local in the whole world has a MOB bar on the same property!

        Our freedoms should always come before unions and I got 3 flyers from the UAW telling me vote Commie! The same with the lying AARP which has not supported seniors in years. Remember Clinton and NAFTA and unions asked for our vote for him. Bill did more than this though and it made National News. He gave our missile guidance control systems to China! Oh, China rulers just selected the leadership there. Just having American companies there does not make them in anyway, a Democracy. GM bailout anyone and I wonder with GM paying about $2.50 an hour, where the money did go? GM sold contracts to other companies to handle pensions and healthcare so it was not that!
        The AARP sent me a letter because I asked them why they support who they do! They told me it was basically for abortion rights!!! Granny take your morning after pill? Who runs that corrupt company. Corrupt? Yes, if they suggest they are for seniors and ask us to vote for billions removed from Medicare and SSI! I would suggest that shows full and total corruption!

        It is up to every American to support good union activity, but never support we are forced to join any! Our Freedoms of good choices or union and Democrat corruption? As a veteran I pick keeping all our freedoms.

      • http://wildblue.net Bungal

        We remember, if old enough, that there was an Eddie on “Leave It to Beaver” and it seemed he always had to learn the hard way, but never really learned!

        We use to have both sides, employers and unions getting into the physical. It took public opinion to finally allow unions way back then. This was even before my time and my Dad gave his life in WWII. I did not see anyone attacking news people except union thugs. I wish I were there, and then again I do not. Those thugs would be pushing up daisies! If the unions that placed those thugs had honor they would allow news reporters from all stations! If they do or support nothing wrong then they should welcome the publicity!

        When any union or any organization comes against our freedoms it is time to reject them! I am fully in support of the rights of workers to chose because this gives a message to unions that they are not supporting the members! It is not just that but the fact that not being able to have workers simply because of some membership is against our own rights in our Constitution! Just like Obama care is against those who have honor and act responsibly. Think, if once any Liberal can do so, why so many get angry if I say I do not want to pay for your mistakes? The same with union corruption. Why any organizations insists that workers must join them, it is against our freedoms in our Constitution just as me or others paying for bedroom mistakes is corrupt and unconstitutional!

        Why do Liberals seem to deny the real problem in all of these things? They have not grown up to accept what one does they are, themselves responsible for, so they get help to remove the freedoms of others and remove the rights of those who have honor and are mentally mature adults.

      • Piped Piper

        Ooo Eddie, I was just reading a few of these comments not looking who wrote them and was wanting to comment on this one and to my suprise. It was Eddie who wrote it. They are 1000′s of companies that do just great without unions and it is getting better. I have great confidence in my fellow human beings espescially when they are Christian buisness people. You/Eddie it is greed at the top. I want to say 1 thing. All the BLUE STATES that are going bankrupt because they keep telling lies about having money for pensions and promising theses lies for votes. Yes the people at the TOP It is so sad and Illinois going bankrupt and voting for more taxes. I LOL so much when I see this because the TRUTH will win in the end. I guess more jobs will go to Right To Work States when the taxes go into effect to Indiana, Michigan and other. Only in time will this country get back on track when they discern the lies told by the left who are the true SATAN.

      • Piped Piper

        It is really who you get your marching orders from. Faith and in time will reveal the truth. If you read 1 book. I think the author is George Orwell… Read,, Animal Farm…Read it in high school when they actually wanted you to learn something. And I never forgot it and I see it happen every day. Without God you have nothing.

      • DaveH

        Dave says — “what a fool you are to assume that i am a liberal”.
        There are two main categories of Progressives, Dave, the Liberals and the NeoConservatives. I doubt you are the latter, especially since you are promoting Unionism and doing all the name-calling and other typical adolescent manipulations that are employed mostly by the Liberal Progressives.

        • http://yahoo dave

          neo-nazi is what u say of yourself
          knowing that we r mortal-enjoy your riches “H”, you will not be able to take your greed with you! yes i do believe in “UNION” and if that is hard for you to swallow–so be it
          for the workforce of america to have such a small minority–u seem so worry about it’s ranks.
          of all the smirks you spite-i really don’t need a explanation of what two types of progressives that exist. your words are of foolishness and greed to top with a grand scale of stupidity.
          it seems your hatred of unions will be the cancer of your life and leave you empty of illusions for fellow mankind.
          when the chips don’t fall in your favor—i am sure that you cry out the most and want pity from your surrounding enviorment!
          at least i can say happy holidays to you as i know that you still talk to santa and his elves!!
          your just sore ’cause the guy that did’nt win and tag says he did not want to win!!!!!!!!!- this is your consolation for such a bitter lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
          enjoy this victory—when government can not acquire the proper revenue thru income tax & the domino effect–i am sure you will be first to cry when they want more from you. this is all too hilarious as the biggest union there is — is the united states government!!!!!!!!!!!!
          blindness is not a excuse for your total ignorance—yet you will never see it – your blind!

      • DaveH

        I love you Liberal Progressives, Dave. I couldn’t do near the damage to your images that you do to yourselves. The best way for me to convince the readers of your lack of intellect and morals is to just encourage you guys to comment.
        So thank you from the bottom of my heart and Merry Christmas!

        • dee9840

          Encourage “you guys” (liberal leftists) to comment will show how “liberal leftists” are incompetent? I doubt it when we have someone like you pointing fingers at us and making fun of our observations?? Perhaps you’re the one who is in “la la” land and doesn’t understand, or doesn’t want to understand, what its like for the workers.

          • http://yahoo dave

            dee!
            this is a proud resident of “BULL[expletive deleted] MOUNTAIN”
            after all the years for his regressive thinking he still believes in the Santa Claus and Grinching towards all mankind! he says from the” bottom of his heart”- did’nt know he had one! he’s the one that still thinks he will be blessed with materialistic riches-yet his “heart is rotten to the core”
            oh well- there are lots of them everywhere!
            this last two elections has really made them bitter!
            i will be first to admit the unions are not perfect–but they will never admit that corporations,religions, are also not perfect. 5 years ago this would’ve included government–but now they are truly incensed that “NOT” they’re pick is in power.
            to talk sense to them is like me winning the lotto — on their dime.
            there is absolutely nothing wrong with the workers wanting a piece of the pie.
            don’t worry about the bum on the rod-get rid of the bum on the plush!

          • dee9840

            Thanks for your supportive words! when I was young, I was a Republican merely because that’s what my family had been. When I started figuring things out, how they work, I switched to the Democratic Party, not that they’re perfect, but at least they care about the average person.
            When I was an educator, in the local college, I joined the California Teachers Association. I became active on campus and joined the Community College Association and was elected a Board Member. During the 10 years I was teaching I became politically active, was on the Political Committee and made numerous trips to Sacramento to lobby for improvements to our lot as Part-time faculty. As such, we had NO RIGHTS, NO BENEFITS AND COULD BE LET GO WITHOUT REASON AT ANY TIME, EVEN IN THE MIDDLE OF A CLASS!
            As you might guess, this situation was un-doable and unfair! We did make some headway on our campus and bargained for our hourly pay and other rights the full time had. It was slow going but at least we were moving in the right direction!
            The CTA is the largest state union in the country and has a good amount of clout in the state. They are still moving forward, even without me! I miss it terribly!!.

          • Piped Piper

            Yes that is all nice. And when they got the power they wanted to bankrupt the state and want more then the state could even pay. They are promised money they don’t have. Look at New York ,ILL and California. the big 3. So far in debt. They will never get out of it until the sh…. hits the fan. Those unions believe they have a right to take what could never be delivered and the people who pay into Social Security don’t have the right to get back what they were promised. What a joke. All you have to do is read the book ANIMAL FARM BY I think George Orwell to see the problem. When you show no mercy to receive no mercy.

          • dave

            dee-you are welcome and happy new year to you and your loved ones

          • dee9840

            Thank you!!

          • Piped Piper

            There is a big difference in corperations, religion and the unions. 1 uses their money with choices for all and the unions use other peoples money and money that don’t even exist or even have to give out. Especially the goverment unions. Its like night and day. The unions have gotten government to better the work enviroment, that was good but when the union makes the corperation want to move. And strike for 1 and 2 years because they want too much at 1 single time and want to bankrupt a company to get what they want or else. You get what you ask for and now with Obama in the picture and the corruption the 2 together are now bringing. It is only a matter of time that the nonunions will wake up and say what the hell. This is what has being going on so long under our noses. Read ANIMAL FARM by I think George Orwell. You will see the outcome you should expect.

      • DaveH

        I don’t understand what it’s like for rapists either, Dee, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to condone them.

      • DaveR

        Have you ever visited the USA plant or other facilities of BMW in Greer, SC [near Greenville/Spartanburg]? If not, I strongly recommend that you do, and that you ask some of those who work there what they think of BMW, their working conditions and their wages. I have toured portions of that factory and its museum multiple times. Everyone I met seemed to be very happy to be working there in what appeared to be pristine facilities — and I only got to see the oldest portion of the factory. I am not connected with BMW in any way except as an owner of a 1993 325i model vehicle made by them in Germany. BMW has expanded that facility multiple times at its own expense and now employs about 8000 workers. And Michelin USA headquarters is nearby as is one of their factories and test facilities. Why is that?

        Unions served many good purposes in the past, particularly in obtaining safer working conditions for employees, e.g. in mines and some mills. But what good purposes are their leaders serving today?

      • gator

        little eddie, you are a true obamanite, goosestepping right along with the powers of oppression.

    • vietnamvet1971

      Do they have Plenty of Millionaires there to TAX, SPEND & WASTE? If not maybe the citizens will step up and give their “Fair Share” according to Ostupid to help out. They will GIVE even IF do not want to. When The “King” issues an Edict us Peons must do as he says.

    • Hawk!

      Warrior, I was born and raised in Illinois but in the southern third. We have an old saying, “Just outside Chicago, is a place called Illinois!” I have watched with horror as the state I was born in has slide into the liberal abyss. One Govenor after anothet caught so red-handedly bribing, stealing and courting favor they’ve been jailed. I can honestly say say I am ashamed of being from that state. We really need to make Cook county a state all by itself so the Chicago voters don’t control the whole damn state.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Ah secession.

      • Warrior

        Ride on brother. I’m with ya!

    • bob gordon

      chip, why dont you include average wage stats for closed states opposed to right to work for less pay states in your babbling comments. It makes me wonder how many of the corporate backed republicans in that state will be re-elected in their next term. that state is 31% union ,is it not? Do you have poor vision or just no regard for the working class union worker being able to provide for his family. As a teamster truck driver @ 18.45 per hr. I have seen this first hand. our employer has another warehouse 60 miles away that does the same work as us for 12 -13 dollars per hr. of course they were non union until a yr. ago. It will take them yr.s to get caught up with us if they ever do.In this economy its tough enough on my wages, I dont know how they do it. CHIP could you live on 26k a year with no insurance for your family? just wondering? by the way our union shop has pretty good insurance. I dont blame companies for hating unions thats part of the bottom line and quarterly profit statement,keeping employee labor cost down. but at what price to workers? please go out and talk to multiple union workers before you lump us all in the uaw stereotype. by the way how many of the big three auto co.s have paid most of their loans [not handouts] back?

      • http://wildblue.net Bungal

        We see many opinions here and a few are getting the picture. It can be a good thing in joining a union and it maybe the worst thing to do! A union that supports no choice is not a good union, period! If the leadership in those unions were doing their job they would first support our freedoms as workers. Some are foolish enough to yell out about the abortion issue and suggest if one is against choice they want to control the female vagina! Now, how radical is that? If you voted union he was probably in line voting for corruption and the forcing of all to pay for someones backseat or bed time. Just another example of the corruption we must support if we voted union! We all should be in question when told that a right to choose abortion was after the fact because they did not want the baby anyway, right?

        What does this have to do with choice in union membership? Same. We are asked by the Commies that we support with our hard earned taxes another persons mistakes in the bedroom? If a union has honor it will support us all and our American freedoms. I should have every right not to support what I think is morally wrong and that I as many others are not responsible for. See how corrupt this is? If anyone does not want to support our freedoms, opt out of life, period as you are against all of us who gave their lives or have served and you could care less as long as you get your baby candy and can say, I am not responsible as the Feds say so! It is all about honor and most Liberals do not raise their children to have any, period. More school shootings, anyone? It is part of the Liberal agenda and experts tell us the wrong and Liberals still support those same mistakes!

        We are told that it can be one of the most obvious signs of mental illness when someone continues to support the same thing with few, if any changes, and after many years, expect good results when all have been bad before! A good definition of many Liberals!

      • DaveR

        My father was an independent trucker/owner. He paid Teamsters union dues for over 20 years, had to find his own loads to carry or pay bribes to others [brokers and dispatchers of companies who lined up independent truckers like himself] to line him up for a load of steel to be carried from the Ohio River Valley to Chicago/Gary Indiana area, and bribes to people working to load and unload his trailer to get loaded or unloaded at all, and at his retirement did not get a cent back of that due him under his Teamsters’ pension. His dues appeared to be “protection” money to hold off thugs from hurting him or destroying his property.

    • Old Henry

      Yeah Warrior, only here in the communist enclave of The Land of Stincoln would the moronic voters elect a governor who campaigned on RAISING taxes and SPENDING more borrowed money.

      I would like to run for governor, get elected and then use the National Guard to bulldoze Chi Ka Go into Lake Michigan. Wouldn’t that put the EPA’s undies in a knot?

  • richard brooks

    Of course, Obama knows that right-to-work legislation does no such thing. It doesn’t prevent anyone from joining a union, if someone wishes to do so. It doesn’t preclude unions from negotiating pay and working conditions with management, either.

    What such legislation does do, however, is give an individual the choice to join or not join, to pay or not pay. And that freedom to choose is what the union bosses can’t stand. They know that if workers aren’t forced to join a union and pay dues, huge numbers won’t. That not only means they have less power in the workplace, it also means they have less money to give to politicians, whom they count on to pass legislation that protects their power. <<

    you contradict yourself, and prove obama is right, in your own little rant.

    what you should do is ask for a lower compensation while increasing your production.

    • rb

      Umm…Obama is right in what sense of being right? Oh, you mean we should be working at places where this mighty organization called a union uses extortion to rob a portion of the pay from every worker. Or you mean Obama is right that the union that bankrupted GM should be given controling interest in the new GM and make the US taxpayer pay for it. Obviously you are clueless as to what it really means to work where you don’t have to join the union. Personally I was union for 21 years. I watched as they took my money and supported so much political crap they never had time for the local issues that really affected workers. The bosses lined their pockets and pensions on my dime while the company used the “contract” as toilet paper and did what they pleased. This was also a right to work shop where 90% of the people chose to join. I stayed a member all 21 years though I didn’t regard the union as my place of worship as they demanded of “good” members. That would be why after all those years of service when I got ill and couldn’t work for an extended period the Union was nowhere to be found when I was let go with no pension. (I did get to keep the money I put away in a great retirement fund run by the company and not the union though). I guess America is just as tired of getting bent over by the Unions as they soon will be of the Obama administration. I know here in Michigan we are. That’s why right to work passed.

      • Combat seabee

        Good comeback to the obvious oblowhole/union lover and worshipper. Too stupid to comprehend the article and it’s truths. He’s caught only by his uneducated assumptions!

      • richard brooks

        after we eliminate the unions, we can eliminate those labor laws as well, right?

        the gop peons continue to extoll the benefits of right to work. yet none of you morons ever want to willingly have your own compensation reduced. you do want to help the company to obtain record profits don’t you?

        as the number of low wage positions continue to increase, the customer pool will continue to decrease. and then you will have to accept fewer hours at a lower rate. or join the unemployed.

        it is ironic that management, stockholders and owners continue to demand increase compensation. they have managed to convince the ignorant gop sheep that the sheep will have to produce more and accept less so their masters can have more.

        those lower paying jobs will certainly generate more taxable revenue.

        the amazing part of this is not the ignorance of the average gop peon, it is the pride they take in being this ignorant.

      • Chester

        Sir, if you want to live in a state with a huge load of people below the poverty line, move to most any right to work state. If a company is allowed to hire from outside the union rolls, and new hires aren’t mandated to join the union and pay dues, shortly the union will be voted out, then there will be no one to represent the workers to management, just each individual worker. Guess what? You as an individual don’t mean squat to most management, just another body that can be dumped and replaced with less than a moment’s notice. In fact, management can just walk down the line and say, “You, you, and you, pack your [EXPLETIVE DELETED] and leave, NO paycheck is waiting, just the open door.” Bad thing is, a LOT of places in right to work states do exactly that, only maybe giving you your final paycheck, or mailing it to you on your regular pay day.

      • Bill

        Chester,
        You mean similar to states that make illegal aliens a protected class, give them all the free services including welfare money and allow them to work for cash and send the money home?

      • DaveH

        Richard says — “the gop peons continue to extoll the benefits of right to work. yet none of you morons ever want to willingly have your own compensation reduced. you do want to help the company to obtain record profits don’t you?”.
        I haven’t worked for a Union since I was 18, and I’ve never had a problem receiving good compensation for my labor, other than Big Government, which Liberal Progressives love to grow, helping itself to my wages. Because I Worked for my money.
        Only a “moron” would bash the company he works at for obtaining “record profits”.
        But keep it up, Richard. The people in Leadership and their Pals thank you for buying their Propaganda and helping to further feather their nests.

      • DaveH

        Chester says — “You as an individual don’t mean squat to most management”.
        Obviously, Chester, management doesn’t mean squat to you. But then that’s okay, right, because they’re the “enemy”? They build a business at their own personal risk and expense, then give you guys an opportunity to have jobs (mutual voluntary exchanges absent Union Coercion), and the way you reward them is to get together as a Big Coercive group to bully them into paying you more than market wages and benefits. Why would you expect that to endear you to the Company Owners?

      • eddie47d

        Its called fairness and give and take Dave H. Something you known nothing about. A company that pays a fair wage has good and loyal workers who work harder. Lousy wages don’t benefit a company because of the high turnover and constant retraining. Cooperation between the worker and management is crucial if a company wants to remain viable. A company like Microsoft pays their workers a good wage and benefits without a union that works out for them. Maybe that’s the way it should have been all along but it wasn’t and you know that. Now the Right To Work folks are pushing us backwards in accepting lower wages and far fewer benefits. Less wages means less consumer spending and a weakened economy and I think you know that too!

      • Mikey

        Y’know, I could agree with unionism IF the following were true:

        That union leadership were only making the same wages as the people they supposedly represent instead of lavish 6 figure incomes.

        That union dues could not be used for political favors, and could only be used for the union members directly.

        That the employers would still have the ability to get rid of the dead-weight, non-productive employees (who the rest of the workers have to carry through even harder work).

        That the employers could reward the hardest working employees with advancements, or raises, regardless of how long they have been employed.

        That unions would no longer be able to legally PHYSICALLY BULLY people who disagree with them. For some reason it is legal for unions to be violent against those who disagree. Do you call that fair? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Enmons

        Since none of these descriptors are true, what does that say for unionism? It says they are THUGS, and they support the LAZY in favor of the UNION LEADERS and the politicians who will defend them.
        I’m glad some people can now choose not to support them.

      • DaveH

        Fairness doesn’t come at the end of a bat, Eddie. Fairness is something people voluntarily contract for.
        Imagine that, a Unionist talking about “give and take”. What do you Unionists give, Eddie? And why is Coercion necessary if it’s a “fair” exchange?

      • eddie47d

        Yes Dave fairness doesn’t come from the end of a bat. Which Corporates in bygone days used against workers on a regular basis. Now they have the Right To Work laws to beat down their workers. Same tactics (intimadation) just a different era.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “end of a bat. Which Corporates in bygone days used against workers on a regular basis”.
        Do you have any evidence to back up your conjecture, Eddie?
        Here’s evidence of the reverse:
        http://www.righttoworkcommittee.org/fuva1b_videofb.aspx?pid=FBSFB

      • DaveH

        Here’s more on Eddie’s poor little picked-on Unionists:
        http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/09/union_violence_of_little_interest_to_media.html

      • nickkin

        When you look at the words RB, “the right to work” you wonder how many strikes that they had in the past , that the workers really wanted to strike. You may have remembered the nurses strike in Northern Michigan that lasted over 2 1/2 years. It wasn’t a question of wages but nurse to patient ratio. AFL-CIO came in and promised to come through for the nurses and even Jennie G. was going to stand by for the nurses. Never came out of her limo @ the Mack. bridge for the walk. What great backing by the union. Hospital came in and hired Strike force nurses @ up to 3 times normal pay. Nurses that walked were only 30%. they got minimal strike pay. Our family lost @ least 15-20 grand for each year on strike. This particular afl-cio was not prepared for the hospitals deep-pockets….so what good are the unions? They are like the big bloated government we now have-hawaiin vacations and boondogle payouts to cronies. Who needs them. Maybe Greece.

      • MLR

        rb, you may be getting bent over by the unions, but your’e getting raped by the corporate big-wigs

    • nc

      Richard, it also means the unions have less power to press upon the “management” for things they, as the working class citizens, feel they are due. Why should the management citizens have all the power? I am going to ask a question and I have no idea of the answer. How many of the Right to Work laws were passed by Republican controlled legislatures ? Does anyone know the answer?

      • DaveH

        No, but it would be unlikely for Democrat controlled legislatures to vote for such Freedom.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        So, they are entitled to what they think they deserve, whether or not I choose to pay that amount of compensation for their services/product? That sounds like highway robbery, by a gang of thugs, not the free market, where we all have the freedom of choice. Oh, that’s right you only believe in your freedom to bully and take what you want.

      • eddie47d

        Dave H loves the Freedom to hold workers down while he increases his own wealth. Lower wages mean more profits from the stock market and that is how the anti-union people make their money. Its never about the other guy who makes less because that would ruin their gambling on Wall Street. Keep them poor and then profits will soar! That is the anti-union mantra!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Dave H loves the Freedom to hold workers down while he increases his own wealth.”

        Note the liberals constant attempt to create “victims” that they can exploit. Business owners risk their own wealth to create a business. They then share that wealth with others by offering to pay them to work. Then comes the union to force those people to join. Then the unions force the business owner to pay more then the business owner can afford, Thus does a business die and we even have a VERY recent example. Hostess.

        Now all those “victims” are not chained to their desks. They can get up and move to a new business that pays them “better”. Or better yet they can start their own business and find out what it is like to have union thugs forcing their workers to join a union.

      • JeffH

        Vicki, “Note the liberals(RE:eddie)constant attempt to create “victims” that they can exploit.”

        Note: eddie is a victim of his own ignorance and stupidity.

        Note: eddie’s emotional instability rears it’s ugly head at the mention of “union” anything.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Dave H loves the Freedom to hold workers down while he increases his own wealth”.
        And exactly how do I hold workers down, Eddie? It is not I who wants to Force them against their will to join a Union.

        Eddie says — “Lower wages mean more profits from the stock market and that is how the anti-union people make their money”.
        Without those profits, Eddie, you would be living like they do in Cuba — that workers’ paradise. It takes Capital Investment to buy the machines and factories that provide more goods, cheaper goods, and higher wages for the skilled workers. How much of your money do you put at risk, Eddie, to accomplish those goals?
        Maybe, Eddie, you could figure out how to harness all that hot air that comes out of your mouth, and make a fortune.
        What’s keeping you, Eddie, since you think you’re worth so much, from launching your own company and sharing in that fortune?

      • eddie47d

        Vickie: It was the high priced bonuses that the Hostess executive were demanding that finally broke the company. Rather hard to pay the $3-5 million each when the company is floundering. When are you going to pay attention to the greed at the top instead of the much lower wages at the bottom. As I said last month those executives are still going to be paid but out of the workers pension fund. Which means the workers lose out again to Corporate greed. That is something that Vickie,Dave and Jeff seem to endorse. [comment has been edited] Dave H: I wasn’t forced to join any union so you lie again!

      • DaveH

        You weren’t forced to join a Union, Eddie? And that proves what, you little weasel?

      • Mikey

        Eddie will swallow anything the union bosses put in his mouth.

      • eddie47d

        I keep proving your lies as in your last comment. Run away fool!

      • eddie47d

        That last comment was to Dave H. No reply to sicko Mikey!

      • vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Vickie: It was the high priced bonuses that the Hostess executive were demanding that finally broke the company.”

        And the company paid the executives why? Is there an executives union?

        eddie47d: “When are you going to pay attention to the greed at the top instead of the much lower wages at the bottom.”

        False comparison. Attempt to use an emotionally charged word (greed) to ridicule higher wages.

        An accurate comarison would be:
        “When are you going to pay attention to the greed at the top instead of the much lower greed at the bottom.”
        Likely eddie does not consider the amount of money union bosses keep for themselves to be greedy.

        eddie47d: “As I said last month those executives are still going to be paid but out of the workers pension fund. Which means the workers lose out again to Corporate greed.”

        What good are unions if they can’t even create a simple pension plan that is immune to bankruptcy? Or are you telling us that the “evil” executives did a deal with Timothy Geitner like the one with Delphi(GM)? http://www.norcalblogs.com/post_scripts/2012/08/gm-bailout-pay-back-to-un.html

      • Vicki

        Eddie writes (to DaveH?):
        “I wasn’t forced to join any union…”

        Why then do you object to “right to work” states and laws? Is this another example of you getting yours but no one else can?

      • Mikey

        I was referring to words, Eddie.

    • Bobby Wayne

      I’ve lived in a right to work state all my life and was a member of the United Steel Workers Union for 36 years. The Article is completely true, We could join the union or not and could drop out if we decided to change our minds. This in no way kept us from negotiating contracts and wages and working conditions etc. The majority stayed in the union and the union fought for the rights of all workers, even those who did not pay dues.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Only and insecure lazy fool would join a gang of thugs to steal money from the customers who are limited in choice by the monopolies created by the governments practice of crony capitalism. Where there is REAL choice which is disappearing rapidly, non union goods and services will survive and union government controlled enterprises will fail.

      • eddie47d

        Keep enjoying those non-union goods from China Mr Capitalist. Some of you have always been good at supporting other nations economies!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Keep enjoying those non-union goods from China Mr Capitalist. Some of you have always been good at supporting other nations economies!”

        Though not as good as the current administration who takes other peoples money (yours) at gunpoint (taxes) to support the economies of other nations.

      • eddie47d

        Why Vickie you look lovely in that Chinese made blouse!

      • DaveH

        Have you got something against the Chinese people making a living, Eddie? I thought you Liberal Progressives were champions of the poor and oppressed?

      • Mikey

        Eddie would rather have us go broke buying simple items that cost 5 times what they are worth so we can support his overpaid union buddies in the U.S. Then, the only ones who can afford the unnecessarily overpriced U.S. items will be the greedy union bosses.

      • eddie47d

        “union bosses” get paid by workers dues and few are over paid Mikey.

      • vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Why Vickie you look lovely in that Chinese made blouse!”

        Thank you eddie. Glad you noticed. Now what are you going to do about the current administration’s giving YOUR tax dollars to foreign countries and not even getting clothing?

    • ibcamn

      mmm..hello,dick,mind if i call you dick?,Obama only took money from the taxpayer to give to the auto company’s that filled for bankrupsy because the unions said so,we know it,the union had help pay to put him in white house,so he had to bail out.(at a 10% approval rate i believe)the car company’s and the unions in said company,(they have Obama in thier pocket)Obama just does as he pleases and lies about it later,unions are on the ropes and they suck the life outta any company they touch and are sucking the life outta this country ,and the people are voting to show that it is a dying(mob mentality)form of work,the united states has sufford for decades at the hands of the union(which use to help and do good for workers)but then mutated into a GREED consumed entity!to me Obama is wrong everytime he opens his mouth,it may be a little less,but can’t be much!healthcare bill,he slammed down the countries throut,almost no approval,but he did it,now it constantly has to be revised and updated and its gonna suck the life outta itself!thats just a few times that ding dong’s been wrong,besides every other time hes been wrong!

      • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

        > Obama only took money from the taxpayer to give to the auto
        > company’s that filled for bankrupsy because the unions said so

        It was also forced onto FMC (Ford) who didn’t want, nor need, it. This wasn’t about bailing out the auto-makers. The other two could have just gone through the bankruptcy system like other companies do, and came out the other end leaner and meaner.

        The unions probably wouldn’t have benefited on the other end tho. This way, the unions could have had their support bought and paid for for years to come, while the actual investors got screwed, and gives the Dems plenty of propaganda material for their anti business campaign.

        – Smoov

      • bob gordon

        tang scheshewan, get a clue, I just got done work at 7 pm . after delivering cases and kegs of beer from 7am til 4 pm my freightliner[comp.truck] broke down ,transmission shift sensor. called the beer plant and owner sent out 2 warehouse workers w/ van to assist in completing deliveries in northern new York up by can. border. 5 inches slushy snow and water poor visibility. called diesel mech shop owner, he left his x-mas party just before it started to come 19 miles w/tractor trailer wrecker to haul back to our warehouse.my 2 bosses the owners, helped us transfer the remaining load out of downed truck onto 2 more vehicles and 2 coworkers assisted us til done. this is not a christmas spirit tale but rather the way owners and union workers cooperate to service our customers. the extra 4 hours are at straight time 18.45 per hour because i got done in 5 hours wed. but boss paid guaranteed 8 we only charge overtime for over 40 /wk punch to punch on timeclock. we negotiate our contract every 3 yrs and both parties always feel we have a fair deal in the end or we keep bartering til both parties are satisfied. the way it should be. I was raised by a wise man my father [union electrician ] who taught us we needed to get the best pay for a good days work that we could, however remember if the employer isnt making what he needs to for a profit their wont be a job

    • Flashy

      So Richard…if the union negotiates a wage…should the non paying worker be allowed the free ride of that wage or should they be on their own to negotiate their own wage? If the union negotiates a pension, should the non paying worker be given a free ride and receive the pension benefits? etc etc

      • Capitalist at Birth

        The non union employee will probably work smarter, harder, and longer than the lazy mob mentality union member, and thus will be rewarded with higher wages and benefits. I know because I have never belonged to a gang, nor will I ever join one. That is what causes democracy to fail every time.. By the way flash less, or should I say clue less, did you know we do not live in a democracy?

      • kkflash

        When are you liberal fools going to realize that labor is a commodity, just like anything else. If suppliers of milk, oil, or manure band together to fix selling prices at a level higher than what free-market competition would dictate, the government indicts or sues them under anti-trust legislation for collusion and price-fixing. But, if union thugs force workers into organizations that exist for the sole purpose of fixing the price of labor well above free market rates, then you liberal hypocrites call it “fairness”. Every worker is in business for him/her self. Their product is their labor output. The features of their product are their knowledge, experience, skills, and talents. The buyers of that product (labor) are the employers. Aren’t US employers Americans with the same right to free-market prices and choices that other Americans have?

      • eddie47d

        Well Capitalist at Birth how is that “mob mentality” from Citizens United and ALEC working out for you and this country. You must benefit from their arm twisting!

      • alpha-lemming

        ABSOLUTELY a non-paying worker should get a free ride !!!!!!!

        We are talking about the welfare roles????…. aren’t we???…….

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “So Richard…if the union negotiates a wage…should the non paying worker be allowed the free ride of that wage or should they be on their own to negotiate their own wage? If the union negotiates a pension, should the non paying worker be given a free ride and receive the pension benefits?”.

        That would be up to the Company (whose wage is being offered) and the Non-Union worker (whose labor is being offered), Flashman, nobody else.

      • nickkin

        Why should the union have anything to do with the pension plans….they started investing pension funds with the mafia and look @ all the charitable work the mafia did. Unions loaned out funds with a interest profit with no reserve back-up….like the govenment, they took the fund like congress did with the ss funds.

      • bob gordon

        good question! answer is yes even though they opt out of joining union and paying dues they receive the same pay and other bennies that the union fights for in labor contracts. talk about taking a free ride on someone elses dime! these right to work jagoffs should have to be left to their own devises to try and get pay raises w/companies.perhaps then they would realize the value of unions, but it doesnt work that way because it is viewed as discriminatory. THATS NOTHING SHORT OF A WELFARE MENTALITY. if some of these former union members viewed their local as corrupt why didnt they grow a set and take local officers on in next term elections? many on here seam to be better bitchers than doers [ typical anti-union whine asses] I would love to see many of you try to keep the pace and composure of the northern n.y. teamsters at 30 below zero.would love to hear your whiney asses babble and complain your way out of work up here. suggest you walk in union shoes [not made in china] before you judge all union workers. In solidarity, bobbygunionvoice@gmail.com.

        • Piped Piper

          1 pair of Union made shoes don’t fit all. I worked for a union in 1979 went from 3.60 an hour to 8 something by 1982. We were a little behind. I guess a place where the union had just got their. They sold the company to China and closed down the plant. They made car parts and gas station lifts. I have owned my own business since 1986. Worth a half a million now. Unions never done nothing for me. Except when I lost my job. I said I will never work for a factory with a union again…

      • DaveH

        Thank you Bob Gordon for posting yet another example of self-serving fallacious Union logic.
        When did the companies spending decisions become your decisions, Bob? It is none of your business what they pay their Non-Union workers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg Beaty

    ‘Right-To-Work’ Wins In Michigan is a sign that Americans have had it with unions and government trying to tell them what to do and how to live. I know i have, I say good for you in Michigan.

    • eddie47d

      Unions give the workers a say in how they will be treated and the wage scale that is fair to what the company is making. So its okay for Republicans and anti-union folks to come and take what someone has earned and call it a good decision. Apparently there are thieves amongst the Republicans too!

      • http://www.facebook.com/Jim128 Jim Miller

        So, Unions give workers a voice? Hmm, pension plans that are outrageous, healthcare and other benefits that raise the price of products by a ridiculous amount. Wonder why so many companies move their facilities to Canada and Mexico or other countries so they can manufacture a product that is somewhat competitive?

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “So its okay for Republicans and anti-union folks to come and take what someone has earned and call it a good decision. Apparently there are thieves amongst the Republicans too!”.
        Please explain how the Right to Work advocates are taking what someone has earned, Eddie? You make no sense to me.

      • http://google gary gerke

        The union members have nothing to say about anything, the union stewards are told what to tell the members, they always lie to the rank and file…..you need to get a grip!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • eddie47d

        If someone comes in and takes away a man wages or cuts his salary in half he is stealing from that man or woman. That is also what Right To Work Laws do and that is unfortunately happening all over this country. Century Link Communications in the West is now attempting to do just that. More Middle Class jobs could soon be gone because of those practices.

      • eddie47d

        I’m not buying that Gary so how is that for I never had any trouble with making my own decisions. .

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “If someone comes in and takes away a man wages or cuts his salary in half he is stealing from that man or woman.”

        Argument to false comparison

        Trying to compare the non consensual interaction of a mugger and a person with the consensual interaction of 2 people in a simple business transaction.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “If someone comes in and takes away a man wages or cuts his salary in half he is stealing from that man or woman”.
        That makes no sense, Eddie.
        So you think that if I gift you $10 one week, and then the next week gift you only $5, that I am Stealing from you by lightening my gift? Where do you come up with your nonsense, Eddie?

      • eddie47d

        We’re not talking about Christmas presents Dave ! You’re slipping badly.

      • eddie47d

        Vickie: You slick wording doesn’t even deserve a response but noted!

      • DaveH

        I’m slipping, Eddie, because you’re an ignoramus?
        Your job is a contract between you and your company. In most cases it is an implied contract to pay you a certain amount of dollars for your labor. If you haven’t performed the labor yet, the company owes you nothing. Since they owe you nothing for work not yet performed, cutting your wages for future labor has nothing to do with theft.
        I wouldn’t cut your wages if your were my employee, Eddie. I would just fire your ass as quickly as possible.

      • Mikey

        Eddie supports the union mentality that a job “belongs” to the union worker. This is because he is probably one of those lazy entrenched do-nothing union workers that the boss can’t fire.
        The good thing about non-union shops like the one I work in, is they can get rid of dead-weight workers (like Eddie), and reward those that take initiative and work hard. And guess what, the workers make more money, and the shop makes more profit. Win-win because there is no union interference between the employees and employers.

      • eddie47d

        I see name caller Mikey and Dave H went to the same school of lying. Oh so typical of some Conservatives!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Vickie: You slick wording doesn’t even deserve a response but noted!”

        Why thanks eddie. It was pretty slick and hardly needs a response so your absence will not be noticed.

        DaveH says to eddie:
        “So you think that if I gift you $10 one week, and then the next week gift you only $5, that I am Stealing from you by lightening my gift? Where do you come up with your nonsense, Eddie?”

        Lets try this one. Eddie asks the neighborhood kid to mow his lawn. Eddie offers the kid $10 to mow it. Eddie gets laid off and can’t really afford to have his lawn mowed. Eddie decides that he wants the kid to have some money so pays the kid $5 to mow the law.

        According to Eddie he has “STOLEN” $5 from a child. What a nice guy.

    • Flashy

      The union movement over reached in Michigan as well as reneged on an implicit promise to the governor (depending on which side to believe). The GOP legislature would not have been abe to pass the anti union legislation after the lame duck ended..as many of the newly elected legislators were Democrats and pro union.

      So tell us how “Michigan” turned anti union when, in fact, it was a blatant and wrongful renunciation of what the voters and public wanted?

      • Opal the Gem

        “Union bosses in Michigan thought they had pulled off a real coup when they managed to get a measure on the November ballot that would have enshrined their power in the State constitution. Imagine their shock when voters overwhelmingly rejected the amendment.”

        Then how do you explain this oh less than mighty flushy?

      • Flashy

        As i stated Opal…the union overreached. even i would have voted that measure down. How do explain the loss of GOP seats and then having, in less than 48 hours with no hearings or amendments allowed, a union busting piece of legislation that would have no hope of being considered under the incoming JUST ELECTED legislature?

        You run on a platform, you lose. So you then rush through exactly what the voters voted against you on?

      • Don

        a lot of you talk down unions. i was in the hostess brands strike. we had to go out. they would have with the wage cut and the increase got damn near a third of my paycheck.i made $32,000 last year. what they wanted with the 8%cut in pay and for insurance would have put me at about $22,000. thats before taxes and ssi. i don’t think i could have paid living expenses on that at times. do you think they would have bailed me out if i could’nt ahve paid for propane for heat. hell no. they’d have been enjoying the extra money they robbed us of. in the first bankrupsy we had about a 5 year wage freeze. we also took a 25 cent an hour cut in pay. with the 25 cents they promised new plant machinery and new trucks to haul product all over the country. the ones they had were super old and needing repair all the time. they did nothing. about 4 years later they did away with the retirement pension. i knew a lot of people who in the early 70′s who went to work just to retire from there. they had lots of decent workers who gave them long and faithful service. then came wage cut wage freeze too. before filing bankrupsy the ceo gave himself a 300% raise and the upper management 50 to 80% raises. the judge stripped them of it. we struck and they are liquidating. they got a bonus the other day for doing the liquidation. imagine operating the company like that all the time. some of you called us union workers lazy. the only ones who were lazy were the a—kissers. the rest of us worked under threats all the time. they operated on intimidation. it had to be union. a few were fired wrongfully and got their jobs back. we worked hard and were the #1 cake plant in the company. imagine 1.4 million donuts in 10 hours or1,530 zingers a minute. you people said us union workers were lazy. one of the wrappers for the 12 pack box ran at 200 zingers a minute and the girls had to keep up feeding . is it worth working your ass off like this for what they expected us to. most of you loudmouths wouldnot make it. either you would not keep up or you would not do things right and get fired.. you talk about right to work laws paying better. that is bs i’ve been in ks since 1969 and kansas is a right to work state. missouri does not have right to work and kansas city pays more than anywhere in kansas.

      • Mikey

        Don,
        No one said all union workers were lazy. I know many very hard working union members. The statement that I made was: that when there are lazy or problematic union employees that have tenure, they are hard (if not impossible) to remove.
        I’m sorry so many lost their jobs, and yes there will always be corporate greed. However, as you yourself mentioned, legal action can be taken. When Ken Lay screwed his employees out of their pensions at Enron (I was one of them), he got put in jail.

    • Larry K.

      what are you going to do when the boss says your fired? you won’t have the union to go to bat for you. but until then you will be working part time without any benefits………or are you a union worker afraid to admitt it?

      • Mikey

        What if you deserve to get fired? Shouldn’t the boss be able to get rid of employees that aren’t pulling their weight?

      • JeffH

        Larry K. says “what are you going to do when the boss says your fired? you won’t have the union to go to bat for you. but until then you will be working part time without any benefits………or are you a union worker afraid to admitt it?”

        Very simple, you file a grievance with the NLRB against the company. The NLRB will have a hearing with both parties presenting their case, with witnesses and evidence and then the MLRB will make a ruling based on their findings and each party is bound by the ruling. If the fired employee was re-instated based on an unfair firing, the employee would recieve “back pay” for his unpaid time.

  • Paul Wells

    I believe the Democratic legislator who stated “There will be blood” ought to be brought up on charges of incitement to violence. If they want blood, I suggest Michigan give them blood. These tools of socialism have been subverting things LONG ENOUGH!!

    • nc

      Paul, are you suggesting that the one’s in Michigan, The Republicans, who gave the state the Right to Work law,give those who opposed it some “blood”? I believe I will take the 54+% who gave the state to Obama in that battle!

      • Combat seabee

        Your ignorance reminds me of the Pink Floyd rock opera, “The Wall,” where the movie has the Mindless, Faceless, children just blindly going off the edge of the walkway. That is you! No intelligent, free, thought process. Just a blind, faceless child going over the precipace!

      • http://google gary gerke

        Yea right, voter fraud as usual, especialy in union controlled states. Those times will end very soon! Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!

      • eddie47d

        I see where Gary is coming from now and using the usual anti-union mantra. If union members vote they are UN American fraudsters! You are a jerk Gary

      • nickkin

        Obama may have won the battle, but he and his puppet minions have lost the war. When every state becomes “right-to-work” the lefties cash cow will come to an end. Back to street corner hustling that the left thrives in.

        • http://Google Dee

          That’s pretty insulting on several levels! Because I voted for Obama doesn’t make me a ‘”lefty” and even if it does, what’s wrong with that? Because I’m a person who believes in teacher unions doesn’t make me a “baddie”. Without teacher unions our salaries would be even lower than they are. Teachers are the most underpaid group in our country, considering what’s expected of us and the responsibilities are overwhelming.

          • bud

            Well Dee it really does make you a “lefty.” Unfortunately it appears that almost all unions are in the business of “equality” That sounds good but that is the communist manifesto to make all workers equal. All workers are not equal. I had great teachers while going to school, but I also had some that were not worth a darn. So these great teachers had to become “equal” with the bad teachers because of the UNION. Some of my teachers had a tremendous positive impact on my life.

            Most of us “anti” union people really aren’t anti union – we are anti any organization that does not recognize talent/ability/production differences within the worker class (any level of worker, including owners and managers.) If the union would accept that there are some useless people who need to be fired we would probably support the union.

            All people who work, should receive a fair wage and treatment! Speaking of teachers specifically this would mean that some teachers are not good teachers and should not be allowed to influence our children in any way at any time. As parents and taxpayers we recognize that there are some teachers who should get paid MORE than they do and a lot more than the bad teachers. Just because you say you are a teacher doesn’t mean that you are automatically entitled to reverence! I have known a lot of students(college) who became teachers with advanced degrees because mom and dad paid their bills and they were too lazy to or scared or just living the good life on campus to go out and get a job.

            You cannot judge a teacher by their looks. One of the best college teachers I had came to class in flip-flops (cheap sandals) shorts, unkempt hair and sounded like a loser at first. I am an army vet (Vietnam era) who was disgusted with the lengths those “hippies” would go to to get out of military service and most of them looked like this teacher. My first impression of him was negative, however, he was really good at teaching calculus so that I even found it enjoyable. This teacher, in my opinion, did an excellent job and should be rewarded. There were other professors in whose class I sat and contemptuously read the newspaper in class while they “taught,” simply because they were unprepared or unable to teach.

    • vietnamvet1971

      The Department of “Selective” Justice looks the other way IF the Issues are not to their liking or IF it does not support Ostupid and his Regime.

    • eddie47d

      More arrogance from Paul Wells. Are you concerned about the 30 death threats a day that Obama receives? That’s some serious blood ! Even though Bush also received death threats there is a 400% increase against Obama. This site brings up an attack on a reporter by a union member as typical of union tactics yet the reporter provoked the worker who wasn’t causing trouble or some political official mouthing off. Now we see how this works! Republicans attack unions and provoke a situation and the workers are to roll over and eat dust. Yet the anti-Obama Republicans can make all the death threats they want with no Chip Woods fanfare. Some of you stoop far lower than any union member you like to accuse!

      • momo

        Take your meds eddie, you’re delerious.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Hey, Momo

        Nothing at all delirious in what eddie says. (and at least he can spell)

      • DaveH

        Why are you going off on an Obama death threat tangent, Eddie? Stick to the subject.
        Do you have any references to back up your claim about the reporter?

      • eddie47d

        Look it up on Mises DaveH . Oh I forgot they only tell their side of the story. If you are so concerned stop being so lazy and look it up under any Presidents name. In this case Obama Assassination attempts.

      • Dennis48e

        You made the claim eddie it is up to you to provide the proof. Oh thats right, the only proof is all in your mind.

      • DaveH

        Your reading comprehension sucks, Eddie. You should try using your dictionary more and take some reading comprehension classes while you’re at it.
        I didn’t question your Obama death threat claim. I just said that you’re going off on a tangent — something Liberal Progressives do quite often when they know they’re cornered.

      • eddie47d

        Sorry Dennis I’m not doing your homework either. Just like I can’t make anyone on the right who makes false statements and try and force them to prove it. Since the information is one easy click away I think you are capable of looking it up for there are several articles saying the same thing.

      • Paul Wells

        eddie47d, favorite communist bobble head, chief inciter, and union apologist extraordinaire!

        (Just helping you make out your business cards, eddie, so you can pass them out at the red rally’s you union folk like to conduct, while you are making up unsubstantiated lies, and other types of deception!)

        You know folks, with idiots like eddie47d around, there is no shortage of comic relief, eh?

      • nickkin

        Those attempts are made by real liberty Americans that recognize the enemy in the White House. If you and your like can’t recognize who is attempting to take down our country, than you are much a radical arab as those in the mid-east that have invaded our Whit House. Live by the rug eddie, die by the rug.

      • DaveR

        I have not seen any information indicating the number of threats made against Obama, if any. However, it wouldn’t surprise me to learn there are/have been some legitimate threats against him given his past, his record as president and the failure of every attempt to have an open, candid and thorough investigation of his [lack of] qualifications [e.g. not being a natural born citizen meaning a person born of two parents who themselves were citizens at the time of birth of their baby] under the Constitution to be president.

  • Deerinwater

    I never have recognized the term “Right to Work” ~ To comment on it would suggest I might accept and understand the term.

    • nickkin

      How about….FISCAL CLIFF…………TAX REVENUE……….ENTITLEMENT…………FOOD GIVAWAY………..CELL PHONE FREEBIE……….OCCUPY WALL STREET……..REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH……

  • joszsrepublicanpage

    It’s time to outlaw all “UNIONS” this is AMERICA and all americans have the right to work without having to pay money to union thugs in order to hold a JOB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      I concur. Unions were and are an idea from the communists in the first place. They are totally anti American. They are also strongly pro mob rule (democracy) and against the republican form of government we once had in this Country.

      • Deerinwater

        You wish to deny “Labor” a voice while accepting the organized efforts of special interest? Or do you wish to deny both?

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “You wish to deny “Labor” a voice while accepting the organized efforts of special interest? Or do you wish to deny both?”.
        I wish to deny anybody the right to Force their way on any other people, unless those people freely contracted to accept that Force.

    • rb

      They also have the right to Choose to join a union or not. There has been much good done by unions but they need to service their consumer just like everyone else.

    • eddie47d

      I was in a union for 40 years and had a customer base. Those customers received excellent service and I never received any complaints. Management appreciated the hard workers too. Unions don’t take from a company they help to make it grow and it can be a great partnership in a company.

      • Bill

        So let’s allow the free market to decide. Let’s have no restrictions on whether a company can compete paying union wages over non union wages. If the union products are superior then the public will pay the extra amount.

      • DaveH

        Good point, Bill. If the Unionists were indeed providing a worthwhile exchange with the company, no Union Coercion would be necessary.

      • eddie47d

        If a company pays a fair wage there wouldn’t be any need for a union also. No man should have to go begging for a decent job but that is what America once was and is now returning to! We use to be a nation of skilled machine operators yet companies now don’t want to pay anyone for those worker skills and we end up with cheap imitations from foreign machine shops. Go to Harbor Freight who sells cheap foreign goods and see how long their tools last compared to the old union made tools of yesteryear’s.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “If a company pays a fair wage there wouldn’t be any need for a union also”.
        Can you get any more ignorant, Eddie? There will always be people who think they’re underpaid, no matter how high the wages. Fairness is a subjective term.
        If you have to use Force to extract a wage, then you are nothing but a common thief.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Go to Harbor Freight who sells cheap foreign goods and see how long their tools last compared to the old union made tools of yesteryear’s”.
        That may be true. I don’t know. But if so, it doesn’t occur to you, Eddie, that it is a result of Big Government taking much more of our money than they did in the past? So we can’t afford quality tools any more? And that Big Government is something you advocate, Eddie.

      • eddie47d

        That’s nothing but more spin from you Dave! I guess your getting good at it too!

      • deerinwater

        DaveH says:

        “Good point, Bill. If the Unionists were indeed providing a worthwhile exchange with the company, no Union Coercion would be necessary.”

        I say; Such a statement only tells people with real life experience that you are a baby in the woods as you expect some sort of “benevolent appreciation” from every capitalist.

        A price is “commanded” ~ not given. ~ It’s called Markets.

        That markets are affected by many factors yet you seem to expect Labor to lie on it’s back for a belly rub and not be a player in the process but more a innocent passenger on a runaway train.

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “I say; Such a statement only tells people with real life experience that you are a baby in the woods as you expect some sort of “benevolent appreciation” from every capitalist”.
        What is your “real life” experience, Deer? Are you a member of the Crips?
        In neither expect “benevolent appreciation” nor open hostility from my employer, Deer. If the time comes that I don’t satisfy him/her, I expect to be fired. And if he/she doesn’t satisfy me, I will quit.
        You’ve been pursuing that fallacious line of “real life experience” for some time now. Do you think it holds any weight, Deer? Every one of us has his/her own “real life experience” and they all differ. No one person’s “real life experience” is any more valid than any other person’s “real life experience” in the overall scheme of life.
        And my bet is that I could out-perform you in many more categories of life than you could out perform me, Deer — physical or mental.

      • DaveH

        You can “command” your price all you want, Deer, but if I don’t think you’re worth it (and from your comments, you probably aren’t), I won’t accept your “command”.

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “That markets are affected by many factors yet you seem to expect Labor to lie on it’s back for a belly rub and not be a player in the process but more a innocent passenger on a runaway train”.
        No, I expect you to honor the fact that it’s my money and your labor, and if I don’t want to exchange MY money for YOUR labor, then I am under no obligation to do so.
        Well, at least that’s what I’d expect from a Principled man.

      • nickkin

        I bet you didn’t work for Government Motors. I bet you didn’t for Chrysler. 40 years. Wow you can consider yourself a “LOYALIST”

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        eddie teddy 47 ways to be a commie, proves what he is by everything he says, takes a idiot not to know his agenda. If Karl Marx were alive along with Mao and Stalin they would adopt this commie in a second.

      • eddie47d

        Way to go sparky Fox. More typical righty wing swill. Did you even receive an education?

  • Mark

    After I joined the Fed Employees Union, I found out later that only the slackers and no-loads were the ones that joined the union. That hardly made me feel good about being a member, as I wondered if that is how people saw me. Having been in the Navy 20 years without being in a union, I did not know better. After all, my dad had been a member of the USW for about 40 years and he encouraged me to join the union. I liked it less after I discovered my union dues were being used to support the Demoncrat Party and gettin all the propaganda mail from them asining me to vote for mostly all “demoncrats”, regardless how I felt about the platform of these anti-life, anti-gun, anti-Christian, anti-anything that is good party. I have been trying to get un-unionized but they make it difficult.

    • Warrior

      Ironic why someone would believe they would have to join a “public sector” union to have to bargain with such gubmint benevolence. The entire concept is contradictory. I know people who voluntarily give up all self respect just to lick the boots of their masta’s.

    • nc

      Mark, after 40 years in the union your father STILL recommened it to you? Do you think that someone with the experience of a union might know more of it’s benefits to a working man than some politician telling you how evil It is because that is what his party’s platform stands for?? It seems that you have more social issues with the Democrats than the labor issue!!! Why was your father so loyal to his fellow workers? He could have just as well said” I have been in unions so you need to stay away from them!” But he didn’t!

      • Combat seabee

        Again, no reading comprehension. Nowhere did he say that his father was “Loyal” to his co-workers. He only stated his father’s blind devotion to the union!
        And yes, unions have some, and I say this with trepidation, redeeming qualities, but they are few! Just ask yourself how fat ass trumpka got so fat? It’s not from doing an honest days work for an honest days pay! It’s from your forced union dues that he lives on a 6 figured salary for what, ripping the real workers off!
        Only lazy people need unions so they can’t be fired. I see it on my job which is forced union, the lazy get away with everything, and the hard working folks keep getting more work because they know it will get done, but the lazy keep skating and making the same as me. That will stop soon, you watch, as Americans start waking up, and get real pissed, real soon.

      • richard brooks

        And yes, unions have some, and I say this with trepidation, redeeming qualities, but they are few! Just ask yourself how fat ass trumpka got so fat? It’s not from doing an honest days work for an honest days pay! It’s from your forced union dues that he lives on a 6 figured salary for what, ripping the real workers off!
        Only lazy people need unions so they can’t be fired. I see it on my job which is forced union, the lazy get away with everything, and the hard working folks keep getting more work because they know it will get done, but the lazy keep skating and making the same as me. That will stop soon, you watch, as Americans start waking up, and get real pissed, real soon. <<

        i imagine you will enjoy returning to the days of the coal mines and cotton mills. no breaks, no over time, no benefits beyond the privilege of a job. working to pay the company store.
        waiting for the day when you are replaced by one who will work longer hours for less pay.

        so how did your boss get so rich? taking the money those 'hard' working folks created and keeping it.

      • DaveH

        For those who want to get deep into the history of Unionism:
        http://mises.org/daily/3553

      • DaveH

        Unions have always been about seeking advantage over others through coercion. When Unionists gain, it is always at somebody else’s expense — the consumers, the taxpayers, the non-Union workers, even some Union workers who are on the bottom of the heap and get laid off due to other Unionists making higher wages.

      • eddie47d

        Your full of anti-union conjectures Dave H and nothing more! If one union member is paid less than another it is because management weakened the union to do so. Most lower paid workers don’t join the union and yes they are the first to be let go and management does the firing.

      • DaveH

        Did you read the article I linked to, Eddie? Probably not. And I doubt it would do you any good anyway with your skimpy level of reading comprehension.

      • eddie47d

        I read one of your articles last week and it lied so why would I continue to read lopsided propaganda especially those with no balance. The problem with you Dave if I said the moon was round you’d try and prove it is square. I’m not your play date!

      • DaveH

        Not my play date?
        You need not worry about that you useless weasel. I would have no interest in even knowing you personally.

      • nickkin

        There is such a thing as ” A POINT OF NO RETURN”. 40 years ago had different consequenses. Capitalism was good and all benefited. Didn’t mention how may strikes he may have been in……no mention of the increase in the “cost of living” in 40 years. Many factors to consider when you reach the “point of no return”. Going with the flow because the family says so is easy…..venture on your own and it’s crap-shoot…..those that had the guts to work hard and take the chance got the glory….40 years now and you have commie-marxist telling us that we didn’t build that so now you have to redisribute…..unions will never go another 40.

    • eddie47d

      The article brings up auto workers yet Warrior brings up “public sector workers”. Every worker in every job deserves a decent wage and decent working conditions. That should be desired by all Americans yet you continue to attack anyone who fights to provide a more level playing field. That is a “contradiction” from you Warrior.

      • DaveH

        You don’t like the wages or working conditions, then quit. Go someplace else to work, or start your own company. Put your monies where your mouths are. Show us those legendary labor skills that you Unionists brag about.

      • eddie47d

        I worked for a good company so why should I leave. Management and unions worked together something you know nothing about but you pretend to be such an expect.

      • DaveH

        Why should you leave? That would be better phrased — Why WOULD you leave, given that you were probably over-paid and could never hope to achieve that kind of wage with your work skills in a voluntary transaction with an employer.

      • eddie47d

        WOW! Dave is now predicting my wages? Whatever the Mortgage market paid you it was way too much. No wonder the housing market collasped.

  • Capitalist at Birth

    What the hell is wrong with Missouri, a much more conservative state than Michigan. I speak from experience having lived in both. I know union members, the ones not brainwashed, who think the unions are all but dead. Most of them are afraid to speak out.

    • eddie47d

      I find that hard to believe Capitalist at Birth. Your too busy calling union members commies to “know any union member”. Where I worked union member weren’t afraid to speak out against bad policies. Thankfully I didn’t see or hear of many bad calls. There was one (actually 2 over the years) union members that got caught stealing. Both were canned with the blessing of the union. The same would have happened to a non union member. Its called doing the right thing!

      • DaveH

        If the Union Workers were afraid to speak out about bad Union policies, Eddie, how would you know that? You honestly think that they would tell a person known to be a Union sympathizer, who puts words in other peoples’ mouths, if they’re afraid to speak out?
        Logic is not your strong suit, Eddie.

      • eddie47d

        One thing for sure Dave H lying Is you strong suit! Hands down!. We had about 130 workers in our shop both union and non union and I knew everybody so why would I hide what goes on. Your nothing but a troll pretending you know something when you don’t.

      • DaveH

        As usual, Eddie, your comment makes no sense. But thanks for posting so the unaware Folks can see the reality of the Liberal Progressive people who want to run their lives.

      • eddie47d

        Name calling is definitely becoming your strongest suit. What are trying to prove with showing off with such a dumbed down comment!.

  • martin

    maybe we should stop all government unions, since we the people are paying them

  • ToughGuy1

    Unions are a bunch of break your back, and break your bank mobsters, and they think they owned you!

    • eddie47d

      Yes alot of union jobs are back breaking you ought to try it sometime! We know how the banksters operate in this country and its not in favor of the American workers. Would that make you in favor of Corporates who take from workers pension funds and pay themselves bonuses. Such as what the Hostess Company did. Thieves wear suits and ties also!

      • Will Foss

        It’s too bad that many union workers don’t actually do any work, but still keep their jobs and get paid for it. The job functions would be back breaking work in many instances, but not having the motivation of actually having to perform in order to keep a job means that many union workers under-perform simply because they can. It’s simple human nature – if there is no reward for an action, and no consequence of not doing that action, most people simply will not do that action. As I said farther down on this board, one just needs to read the Waterfront Commission report on ILA practices in NY/NJ area to see evidence of this environment the union is breeding. The ILA do a disservice to the US economy, the companies that have to deal with them, and even to the individual workers who learn they don’t have to do anything in life, which is never a good philosophy to have.

      • nickkin

        Stupid is what stupid does…eddie……hostess could not run efficently because of union demands on running different routes, different trucks to same businesses. Big deal that they had more workers to do the same work for half the workforce but the greedy union wanted more workers=more dues=more obama funds= more communist government.

      • eddie47d

        You could have said that without the name calling Nickkin so I think that hands the stupid title back to you.

  • Benton Bain

    At least the guards in Libya were unionized as probably dictated by the Muslim Communist in the White House to guard with flashlights and cell phones the “consulate” and were able to go on strike Sept. 11, the day 4 of our Americans were killed.

    • eddie47d

      What an appriopriate name Bain. The king of Corporate shenanigans and destroyer of companies. So much for unions wrecking a company when there are far worse Corporate thieves. Not sure why you brought up the Libya situation unless your trolling for the Devious Little Devil Award. There are lots of embassy attacks and far more deadly than the one in Libya. Now if you would like to dance I’ll counter your slick comment anytime.

      • DaveH

        A Troll accusing others of trolling — Priceless.

      • eddie47d

        Can’t put a price on your comments Dave H because they aren’t worth anything!

      • nickkin

        Would you have a different view if it were more than 4 DEAD AMERICANS …..eddie ?

      • eddie47d

        Nickkin; Would you be even more dishonest if it was more than 4?

  • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

    The best-paying jobs I have had were all non-union.

    The few jobs I had that were union, I was unable to negotiate my worth to the company.

    I have to agree with how unions are full of slackers. Day after day watching the other employees do just enough to get by, while I work hard. Can’t help it. I’m getting paid for my time, the company is going to get their money’s worth.

    Then I get told by my supervisors that they want to bump me up to top pay, but they can’t because of the union rules, so the best they could do was max-raise me every 6 months to get it up as fast as they could.

    Why a union would stand in the way of a company who WANTED to pay me more is beyond me.

    I always did better negotiating my own compensation. I didn’t stay there after a couple years. The company held up their end max-raising me, even tho I hadn’t reached top-pay yet, but in the end, I just couldn’t stand the people I was working with anymore. Particularly the comments about me making them look bad and to slow down and stop working so much.

    This was the AFL-CIO on that job… a previous job was CWA… equally useless union. For that job we ended up being the lowest paid operators in the county, as all of our competitors had the freedom to pay their employees according to their worth. I left that CWA shop to go to one of those competitors, starting off $2/hr more than I was already being paid after 5 years with the CWA shop.

    IMHO, unions had a purpose at one time, but they have seriously out-lived their usefulness, and relevance. The union label doesn’t at all mean what it used to.

    – Smoov

    • Combat seabee

      I remember a woman on my job telling another woman not to do something because it would make the first woman look bad! The second womans answer? You’re making yourself look bad! Then continued on with what she was doing, and yes, they are both union! Difference? One had the smarts to do what was needed regardless.

    • eddie47d

      Smoov: Yes “union made” use to mean something because it was American Made and back then people took pride in America. Now thanks to Corporates who insist on paying lower wages for personal profits send those union made jobs overseas. Now all we have is Chinese Made and no American Pride. Corporate greed wins and the American worker loses.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        No, eddie, the American worker is being given another wonderful opportunity—-ask Chip. Now the American worker can move from the RTW states that he has flocked to and move TO CHINA as he chases his job. And be paid even LESS when he gets there. RTW laws are a race to the bottom for this country.

      • JeffH

        Isn’t it wonderful to see the bonding process continue between these two non-thinkers, one with no brain and the other with half(?)a brain…it’s priceless!

      • eddie47d

        What’s the matter Jeff feeling lonely and can’t think of anything relevant? What outsourcing company are you in charge of since you are always in favor of the Bain’s of the world.

      • JeffH

        eddie, here’s a fact that can easily be confirmed.

        Besides eddie being an ignorant liberal hypocrit, if eddie couldn’t say something stupid, eddie’d have nothing to say at all.

      • eddie47d

        If that is all you have Jeff is sarcasm then I have nothing to worry about LOL!!

      • JeffH

        eddie, my facts are facts and your sarcasm ain’t facts.

        POLLY WANT A CRACKER? baaarrraaaacccckkkkk!

      • nickkin

        Eddie…are you saying your a loser since your a union member…how much has your corporate stole from You?

      • DaveR

        Eddie, you might benefit from reading Friedman’s book entitled “The World is Flat” which will help you better understand why corporations send various kinds of work overseas, not just that performed by union members in USA. Labor, design, and even relatively esoteric functions such as legal research are now being conducted in part by foreign firms and individuals, e.g. in India, for USA manufacturing companies. I know in part because I worked for one before my retirement, and was directly involved in some of that out sourcing. It’s all about trying to obtain the lowest overall cost to deliver the product to the customer, and many of those customers of the company I worked for are located overseas. And in some cases, no USA company could do the needed work. For example, try sourcing a 15 ft long forged component made of a titanium alloy that is only available from Russia from anyone but the Russians!

    • DaveH

      Unions were never needed, Smoov. That was just some of the Propaganda that we’ve all endured from the public schools. Unions were always about privileging the Few at the expense of the Many.

      • eddie47d

        Now we know you are a bonafide liar Dave H.! That was a Classic! You probably would have enjoyed being a plantation master making such a stupid comment.

      • DaveH

        Plantation Masters forced their slaves to work for them.
        You know, Eddie, Force. That thing you and your creepy cohorts do to the companies who were nice enough to offer you a job.
        You are far and away more like a Plantation Master than I, Eddie.

      • eddie47d

        I’m referring to your new Right To Work masters but so much goes over your head these days.

      • DaveH

        Well I confess, Eddie, that I don’t understand Ignoramus very well. Maybe you could provide us a translator?

      • Robert Rashbrooke

        I seldom accept anything that DaveH posts simply because it contradicts most of my life’s experiences. This time he has really upset me, by saying that unions were NEVER needed. Instead of relying on a single (Mises) source for his “facts” relating to work and the economy he needs to expand his outlook and read what some alternate theorists/historians say about the subject, possibly Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. I do remember seeing a TV documentary with mine owners using men with Vickers machine guns keeping workers striking for better pay and conditions out of their mines in order to prevent a settlement.

        It seems to me that DaveH is a pretty mean spirited person, having read the snide and sarcastic comments he responds with, and certainly not the sort of debater who would convince anyone of the error of their own thoughts in favor of his. Not everything that Eddie or RBT et al postulate are incorrect or impossible to achieve but DaveH can be counted on to immediately refute their argument, a stance that is not likely to engender reasoned debate!

        We live in a very complicated world and there is no single argument that can cover every situation, as lawmakers constantly belatedly discover. There are employers who MUST be controlled by law and rules, and at the same time there are employers who act honorably toward their workforce and do not need to be monitored and controlled. DaveH seems to be of the opinion that ALL employers are honorable and just men who philanthropically start businesses JUST to give gainful employment to the stupid masses who are too intelligently handicapped to work for themselves and therefore deserve to be paid 400-500 times the salary they so willingly pay the employees.

        Many times in the past I have asked people like DaveH to give me an example of ANY job that justifies a salary of $10 million a year, let alone $125 million paid to the CEO of United Health Care, since I do not belive such justification exists. Without my pension from my previous employment I could not get by on the $22K I get paid in North Central Florida.

        His previous explanation that “managers” are more intelligent, harder working and more experienced than common or garden employees and thus justify their exorbitant salaries also flies in the face of experience, since there are plenty of laid off ex managers around who have just as much difficuly in obtaining employment along with the dimwitted hoi polloi.

        For myself, I cannot understand why employees should rejoice at the thought of unionism being drastically curtailed in this country, since historically it WAS due to their efforts that working conditions and salaries rose in this country, through influence of the social thinking of a large proportion of the population called the ‘workforce’.

        .

        • http://yahoo dave

          yes his words are very “hollow” and very mean—yet he gets upset if the words are turned towards him!!!!!!!!!!!! very nice response Robert and quite commendable on your selection of vocabulary. very professional layout of the English language, yet a very nice spanking for the fool

      • DaveH

        More personal attacks in lieu of facts. But keep it up guys. I couldn’t do nearly the damage to your ideas as you guys do to your own. More and more people are learning the experiential way that the Union Promoters are pushy bullies. You guys are just making my point.
        Thanks.

      • DaveH

        For those who suspect Robert is wrong but just can’t quite put their fingers on it:
        http://www.lewrockwell.com/archives/fm/10-98.html

      • DaveH

        Robert says — “Many times in the past I have asked people like DaveH to give me an example of ANY job that justifies a salary of $10 million a year, let alone $125 million paid to the CEO of United Health Care, since I do not belive such justification exists”.

        Justification? Since when do people or groups of people need “justification” to decide how much they pay their officers with their own money, Robert? It’s none of your Commie business.

      • DaveH

        Robert says — “Instead of relying on a single (Mises) source for his “facts” relating to work and the economy he needs to expand his outlook and read what some alternate theorists/historians say about the subject, possibly Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. I do remember seeing a TV documentary with mine owners using men with Vickers machine guns keeping workers striking for better pay and conditions out of their mines in order to prevent a settlement”.
        Single source? Mises Institute is populated with numerous highly educated Economists and Historians. What are Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn? But feel free, Robert, to post references to your authors works, so the readers can decide.
        Meanwhile, if your example of the mine owners keeping those poor mistreated workers from trying to force their employment on the owners and trespassing on their property is all you have, I wouldn’t bother if I was you, because you will just look like a fool to intelligent principled people.
        If the jobs were so bad, why are they behaving so aggressively to get them back? Why don’t they seek employment elsewhere? It’s kind of like you trying to elicit sympathy for bank robbers because the banks didn’t pay them enough interest on their deposits.

      • DaveH

        Robert says — “Instead of relying on a single (Mises) source for his “facts” relating to work and the economy he needs to expand his outlook and read what some alternate theorists/historians say about the subject, possibly Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. I do remember seeing a TV documentary with mine owners using men with Vickers machine guns keeping workers striking for better pay and conditions out of their mines in order to prevent a settlement”.
        Single source? Mises Institute is populated with numerous highly educated Economists and Historians. What are Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn? But feel free, Robert, to post references to your authors’ works, so the readers can decide.
        Meanwhile, if your example of the mine owners keeping those poor mistreated workers from trying to force their employment on the owners and trespassing on their property is all you have, I wouldn’t bother if I was you, because you will just look like a fool to intelligent principled people.
        If the jobs were so bad, why are they behaving so aggressively to get them back? Why don’t they seek employment elsewhere? It’s kind of like you trying to elicit sympathy for bank robbers because the banks didn’t pay them enough interest on their deposits.

      • DaveH

        Robert says — “DaveH seems to be of the opinion that ALL employers are honorable and just men who philanthropically start businesses JUST to give gainful employment to the stupid masses who are too intelligently handicapped to work for themselves and therefore deserve to be paid 400-500 times the salary they so willingly pay the employees”.
        I have never said all employers are honorable, Robert. Those who use that Big Government, which you and other Progressives enable, to gain special privilege against their competitors are definitely NOT honorable. I have developed that theme repeatedly in the past. But that’s another issue.
        Meanwhile, the owners of a company invested THEIR money, time, and other sacrifices to build THEIR companies. Get it, Robert? The company is THEIR property. If you or your Liberal cohorts don’t like the employment deal they offer, then seek work elsewhere because there are plenty of people who would be happy to accept what you spurn. Nobody is forcing you to accept their offers.
        Or, pool your own savings and start your own companies. Don’t just sit there flapping your lips about how much you’re worth. Give us an example of your intelligence and your skills. Show us how it’s done. And if the Government makes that difficult for you with competition-stifling permits, licenses, or other hurdles, don’t cry on my shoulders because it’s you Liberal Progressives who have enabled that Big Government.

      • DaveH

        Robert says — “His previous explanation that “managers” are more intelligent, harder working and more experienced than common or garden employees and thus justify their exorbitant salaries also flies in the face of experience, since there are plenty of laid off ex managers around who have just as much difficuly in obtaining employment along with the dimwitted hoi polloi”.

        Where did I say that, Robert? Do you Liberal Progressives ever tire of putting words in my mouth?

  • Chris AR

    For those that are vigorously defending unions as a necessity to protect workers from evil capitalist management, please take a moment to consider this information from the Bureau of Labor Statistics for 2011. The US has 14.8 million union workers- or about 11.8% of our workforce. Of those – 7.6 million (over half) are public sector workers. In the public sector, 37% of the workforce is unionized. In the private sector, on 6.9% are. Apparently, its not the evil capitalists that our workers need defense from but, rather, our government workers that need this protection. I would think this is a solid case for smaller government.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Chris AR has misinterpreted a statistic for us. Union membership in the private sector has declined from a high of over 30% because “evil capitalist management” (his words) has managed to beat private sector unions down with the help of their wholly owned subsidiaries, the Republican dominated (actually bought and paid for) legislatures of the more backward states.

      It has (fortunately) been much more difficult to do so to the unions in the public sector, particularly at the federal level. ALL workers need protection from those who would enslave them. Chris has swallowed the Kool-aid that blames the unions (and O’Bama, and Planned Parenthood, and the ACLU) for the country’s woes. Drink up, Chris.

      (And the connection to “smaller government” completely escapes me—-what are you talking about?)

      • DaveH

        RBT says — “ALL workers need protection from those who would enslave them”.
        Exactly. That’s why we need Right to Work Laws to keep the Unionists from enslaving us.

        And Public Sectors have grown for the same reason that Big Government has grown — It’s always easier to spend Other Peoples’ Money. If the Politicians and Bureaucrats were spending their Own Money, Public Unionism would decline rapidly.

      • eddie47d

        Don’t worry about Dave H he still thinks a worker is a companies property and can be abused every which way but loose. Boy does he miss the good old days and has his order in for a new bull whip to keep us in line. You know how those Bull Conner types are?

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Don’t worry about Dave H he still thinks a worker is a companies property and can be abused every which way but loose”.
        More nonsense from the Troll Eddie. Where have I said that, Eddie? You are welcome to quit and go someplace else any time you desire.

      • eddie47d

        What’s the difference with that and your ridiculous accusations? Oh I forgot you don’t believe in fair play and only the winner takes all! Your too busy pumping up your own portfolio to have any clue about the real working world.

    • eddie47d

      Corporate profits are up above 10 % and workers wages are down. Apparently Chris enjoys the slide downward of the Middle Class and beefing up the Elites. Union bashing guarantees one thing that the disparity will only widen and the Corporates know it. Demanding that workers take less while Corporate golden parachutes increase is a recipe for further disaster and will further weaken the consumer base.

      • DaveH

        Corporate profits are up 10%? I’ll assume that’s true (a big assumption). So what is a 10% increase of a penny? By itself the percentage increase of profits is meaningless.

      • eddie47d

        Actually most are up more but I didn’t want them to look too greedy in exploiting cheap labor to accomplish that goal.

      • kkflash

        eddie47d, you spout meaningless drivel with no facts to back it up.

      • eddie47d

        KKflash is still pretending he’s the brightest bulb in the box with that gem! Your mind is still racing past your intelligence! In other words you said nothing!!

      • nickkin

        Right to work states on average have better wages than you golden balloon unions.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    nc asks how many of the right to work laws have been passed by Republican controlled legislatures. I don’t know the exact answer either but I would be willing to bet the answer is All OF THEM. It’s the kind of thing Republicans do in their blind rush to serve their masters and turn the country into a corporate feudal state.—-beat down workers and beat down wages.

    It never ceases to amaze me how thoroughly brainwashed the typical conservative foot soldier is when I look on PLD and see all the parrots chanting the “down with the unions” song, as we already see here today on this thread. Are unions perfect? NO. Have unions done a lot for the average American down through the years, whether or not he belonged to one? A resounding YES!

    A graph showing declining union membership over the years along with declining middle class incomes has two lines that are exactly parallel. The rate of decline of both is nearly identical.

    All the “statistics” in Chip’s article show not the positive impact Chip would like us to believe, but actually much of the NEGATIVE impact of right to work laws. To look at a few.

    Employment is GROWING in RTW states? Sure is, as those states STEAL jobs from other states. How about the cost to individuals and the economy of uprooting businesses and families and taking them off to a place where the workers will be paid LESS so the fat cats can make MORE? And don’t forget that the RTW states have also given many tax and other advantages to companies to relocate there. “All Hat, No Cattle” Perry was quite proud of TX’s record in “creating” jobs. Of course, he neglected to mention that TX had stolen nearly all those jobs from other states and had “mortgaged the house” to create the “lures” I speak of.

    Don’t know where Chip cherry-picked “During the same period, wages rose in right-to-work States by 12.5 percent, compared to 3.1 percent in union States”, seems extreme, but it’s a fact that wages are LOWER in right to work states than in pro union states, and that’s one of the big reasons behind the declining income of the middle class. .

    And Chip is doing nothing but misleading us when he states “No wonder that a whole bunch of people have been voting with their feet. Between 2000 and 2010, 5 million people moved from compulsory union States to right-to-work States. So it appears that right-to-work is not only good for business, it’s good for workers, too”.

    Yeah, Chip, it sure is “good for workers” to have to uproot and follow their jobs half way across the country so that their kids won’t starve to death. Of course, their kids may get a little hungry because the jobs they have followed won’t pay as much but so what—-too many kids are overweight anyway and need to cut back. And how about all those people who have “walked” DOWN across the poverty line? And how about all those people that have walked OVER the line to needing food stamps? All this while the share of the country’s income and wealth going to the 99% declines and the plutocrats and the corporate oligarchy of the greedy 1% gathers in more for itself.

    Yeah, Chip, keep singing that one-note tune—-RTW IS GOOD FOR YOU AND THE COUNTRY! You and the parrots will make good citizens of the corporate feudal state.
    Mindless and unthinking—-your masters will like that.

    • Will Foss

      Your argument about unions having some redeeming qualities would have been valid 30 years ago, when unions actually did still serve to protect workers. They were actually a good thing back then. Today, the majority of unions have devolved into money-making machines for the top echelon of the union bosses, and campaign supporters for politicians who don’t stop to think about who they’re really serving. The ILA is a perfect example of how far afoul of the original intent today’s unions have gone. They’ve demanded a raise every year no matter how much money the shipping industry was losing in the recent recession. They then proceeded to raise the dues required from members, effectively taking away the raise and putting it into coffers that only benefited management. Now the ILA is demanding even more money from an industry that doesn’t have the money to give, and they are going on strike on Dec 30th until they get their way. That union doesn’t care that shutting down every single shipping terminal/port from Texas to Maine will likely push our country back into a recession. They do not serve their members, and they don’t care about the businesses they feed off of. The ILA would run the entire industry into bankruptcy and not care one bit. Modern unions have no problem killing businesses that give the union a reason to exist, just so long as they get paid all the way up until the end. Their only concern is the almighty dollar.

      • DaveH

        Unions NEVER were necessary for the protection of workers. That was merely Propaganda spread by Socialists who wanted more Power.
        http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=511

      • eddie47d

        Will Foss my dues were reasonable and no shenanigans were used by union officials to achieve better benefits. Thanks for your story from another side but union officials don’t get paid much for what they have to do. They sometimes represent thousands of workers in various jobs all over the USA. Heck pay attention to what those Corporations who spend millions in hiring Lobbyists to gain favor for the company . Whether right or wrong money rules this nation and its hard for unions to raise as much money to counteract groups like Citizens United or ALEC. So it does work both ways. There is way too much involved in politics too and maybe we end up with too many losers on all sides.

      • Flashy

        Davey boy, why don’t you explain those economic processes in that Mises link you provided. (If you even understand economics). Now, apply the external forces which will be at work (notably lacking in the articles analysis and propositional theory) affecting the economic theories the article utilizes. External forces present in the 1870′s-1920′s which the article centers on as “proof”. Forces such as company town, monopolization, coercion, intimidation, blacklists, etc …

        Now…ever hear of Wal Mart? Go ask those who have tried to organize the Wal Mart workforce. Ask about intimidation, spying, workplace discrimination, coercion…

        Wal mart is not unionized, rapes the community small business, and buys most of its products from…China.

        Compare Wal Mart with Costco. Costco allows unionization. Those locations which have opted out of the union have contracts mirroring the union contracts. Please note that not one of the contracts has been turned down by the non union locations. The difference between the union contract and the non union “agreements’ is the employee ‘agreement’ is subject to change by Costco at any time and offers no absolute protection to the workers. The rate of non union stores to union is changing with union labor becoming the predominant. Dang…must e because those union guys are so bad eh?

        Now…Costco provides a livable wage for its employees, and garners more productivity and customer satsifaction than Wal mart. It has health insurance covering over 85% of its workforce compared to less than 50% for Wal Mart. Significant…Costco’s blue collar full time work force is completely covered, only PT work not being covered. Wal mart/ Ya really want to know?

        To say a company cannot compete if forced to go unionj is a fallacy. A lie…a huge 100% flat lie. To say the workforce of a union shop is better off bargaining as a collective body is a truth.

        But go ahead Davey boy…tell us all about how the economics works out and apply those externalisms to your discussion.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Now, apply the external forces which will be at work (notably lacking in the articles analysis and propositional theory) affecting the economic theories the article utilizes. External forces present in the 1870′s-1920′s which the article centers on as “proof”. Forces such as company town, monopolization, coercion, intimidation, blacklists, etc”.
        Oooh, swoon, I’m so impressed by your big words, Flashman. Unfortunately they are meaningless.
        There could be none of those, Flashman, without the coercive Force of Big Government to back them up — a Big Government that you advocate, Flashman. So spare me your nonsense.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Wal mart is not unionized, rapes the community small business, and buys most of its products from…China”.
        I thought your kind were for the little people, Flashman? Without Walmart, many poor people would live much more meager lives. But thanks for revealing to the readers, Flashman, what you Elitists really think about poor people.

      • eddie47d

        Dave doesn’t understand how the Waltons are worth well into the billions. Sam Walton was someone to admire and bought union made and always American made. Now that he is gone anything goes at Walmart and they are no different than any other comparable store. They aren’t making their billions because they love the little guy. Ask their employees .

      • DaveH

        The author of the article you disparage, Flashman, is Thomas DiLorenzo who “holds a Ph.D. in economics from Virginia Polytechnic Institute and a B.A. in economics from Westminster College. His major research and publication interests are economic history, industrial organization, and political economy. He is the author or coauthor of 13 books, including The Real Lincoln, How Capitalism Saved America: The Untold History of Our Country, From the Pilgrims to the Present, Lincoln Unmasked, Hamilton’s Curse: How Jefferson’s Arch Enemy Betrayed the American Revolution and What it Means for Americans Today, and Organized Crime: The Unvarnished Truth About Government”.
        What are your credentials, Flashman, other than your BS from Union Stockyards in Omaha?

      • Flashy

        Couldn’t understand or comprehend the article, theories and assumptions eh Davey boy?

        Folks are onto you son. You have no knowledge, no ability to critique, and when not denigrating a solid opinion and analysis only spout what you’re told to spout.

        Laughable. Mindless and laughable

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “To say a company cannot compete if forced to go unionj is a fallacy. A lie…a huge 100% flat lie”.
        Who said a company couldn’t compete if forced to go union, Flashman? Is this just another of your many equivocations? Any company can “compete”, at least until they go bankrupt or defunct.

        Flashman says — “But go ahead Davey boy…tell us all about how the economics works out and apply those externalisms to your discussion”.
        Flashman’s favorite new buzz-word — “externalisms”. Pay attention, Folks, because that is just one of many tactics the Misinformers will use to deceive ignorant people. They throw some big words out there that make it appear as if they know what they’re talking about, when in fact their statements are just nonsense.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Couldn’t understand or comprehend the article, theories and assumptions eh Davey boy?”.
        Typical obfuscation from Flashman which has nothing at all to do with the subject at hand.
        You see, Folks, what Liberal Progressives are really made of. If they can’t snow you, they will resort to tactics that you saw regularly in middle school — ridicule, name-calling, condescension, etc. Whatever childish techniques they can muster in their attempts to silence you. Learn those techniques, Folks, and expose them at every opportunity so the less knowledgeable among you can be more aware.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Folks are onto you son. You have no knowledge”.
        Yet I regularly expose you, Flashman, for the immoral buffoonish manipulator that you are.
        That a man with “no knowledge” can do that to you, Flashman, doesn’t speak very highly for you.

    • DaveH

      RBT says — “A graph showing declining union membership over the years along with declining middle class incomes has two lines that are exactly parallel. The rate of decline of both is nearly identical”.
      Perhaps you could link us to such graphs, RBT, so we might scrutinize your conclusions?
      My guess is that during that same time period Government Spending has also been growing, as well as many other economic factors. So why would you assume that the decrease in Union membership was the driving force for the declining middle class (if there even is a declining middle class)?
      It’s so easy for you Liberal Progressives to spout your emotional conjecture. How about backing up your claims with some references?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Yes, you’re good at “guessing”, Dave, as you have “demonstrated” many times on PLD, although “making stuff up” and “citing meaningless mises” might state it better. I will waste no time providing you a link to “scrutinize” and attempt to twist—-why don’t you go find a link that proves me wrong—-a graph that DOESN’T show the parallels I point out. One that shows that the fortunes of the middle have IMPROVED as union membership has declined. If you can’t do so, I win the argument. Go for it.

        It has been in the news for a long time, Dave, and many have seen it. But I forgot, you don’t care about real “news” because you make up your own. As is evidenced by you stating “(if there even is a declining middle class)?” You haven’t noticed the “news” about the decline of the middle class? Good one, Dave, you probably shot off two toes with that one—do you have many left?

        And you regale us with another one of your canned lines with a L-P reference with your “It’s so easy for you Liberal Progressives to spout your emotional conjecture”. How trite, how unimaginative, how transparently trollish, how just plain dumb!

      • DaveH

        The news reports the declining middle class? That proves it.
        Thanks for posting your dribble, RBT, so the readers can see just how factless you Liberal Progressives are.
        And, as usual, no referential links. It’s easy to link to articles, RBT, even for somebody who thinks with their Lizard Brain. If you don’t know how, just ask me.

      • DaveH

        Jeffrey Tucker on the Declining Middle Class:
        http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=200

      • DaveH

        RBT says — “One that shows that the fortunes of the middle have IMPROVED as union membership has declined”.
        Do you know the difference between a causal relationship and a coincidental relationship, RBT?
        Quit thinking with your Lizard Brain.
        There are many events in everyday life that occur simultaneously without necessarily being related. We might have the snowiest year on record, for instance, in the same year the Stock Market has it’s best performance ever. Does that mean that Snow increases Stock Values? Of course not.

    • eddie47d

      Dave H is sure piling on the baloney today. He just loves to bring up socialism or some other poor excuse in an attempt to knock the worker down another notch.

      • Flashy

        Eddie..notice he keeps with the same ol’ tactic…spouting blatherings of nothingness with a mises link attached. What’s laughable is that if the article is anything past a “see spot, see spot run’ level, he has no idea what exactly it is about, nor is he able to critique it other than assuring the reader it means something (while having no clue what it really states nor the weaknesses therein).

        Either that, or he accuses someone of denigrating (usually untrue) then he himself does nothing but denigrate and belittle. He is, without doubt, the joke of the PLD board.

      • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

        Oh would you two get a room already and get your man-love out of the way behind closed doors? I swear, it is getting creepy between you two.

        – Smoov

      • JeffH

        Smoov, you can toss RBT into that group…a progressive ménage à trois of ignorants.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Eddie, you sometimes amaze me when you spend so much effort fighting the ignorant and illiterate on this site. DaveH is in fine form here today , throwing out all kinds of horsepucky—-one of his alternate personalities, JeffH, is back in fine form, junior stooge Mikey (“he likes it”) has made his feeble attempts, and many other motivated reasoners have been emboldened to say things as if they had any reasoning abilities at all.

        I suspect you are a lot younger than me, so I will give you the advice of an old man—-It makes little sense to throw snowballs of truth and rationality into the gates of hell when the devil and all his disciples are stoking the fire so strongly with piles of horsepucky. Go to another thread if you feel like engaging in a half-way intelligent discussion—-you won’t find it here—-this one has been ruined (is that Dave’s job?—-shutting threads down?) There are some that Dave and the other stooges and stooge imitators have not yet polluted—-hurry and find one before they get there..

      • DaveH

        You do realize, Flashman, that unlike personal encounters where you can get away with spouting your nonsense, all the readers need to do is go back and read yours and Eddie’s comments?

    • CaroleAnn

      RT Brain Thinker,
      You are soo right. No one is forced to be a union worker. It is far more difficult to find a union job, They just are not that plentiful, So people who do not want to belong to a union go elsewhere for work.

      As the unions diminish so does the middle class. Yes, there are some forms of Capitalism that are evil and we have that type here in the USA today.

      Recent case for instance The Hostess Twinkie shop, it was not the union who was corrupt and drove the Company into bankruptcy and then stole the retirement money from 18,000 workers, it was the CEOs who ruined the 80+ year old company and robbed the workers.. Unions have not changed,, the form of capitalism we have today is the change.

      Talk about government workers, take a look at what they are doing to the US Postal Dept. Just to kill the union.and they do not care about the fact we have one the finest postal services in the world. They will destroy it to get the union. Little by little, they are destroying our unions.

      These people who cannot think for themselves will learn just how important unions were when it is too late and they are all gone. It will be so hard to bring them back after they are gone.It will take generations.

      I am so tempted to call people morons, but I know it is not their fault, Our mainstream media misinforms or just does not inform at all…But when they do misinform, they brainwash people by repeating the same lies over and over.

      Don’t believe me, here is proof——no other nation in history before us, reduced taxes during wartime. Something that guarantees a huge debt. But did anyone talk about it in the mainstream media??????? No but they talked about every other argument about taxes.
      What effect did this have on the American people? They did not realize how we developed this massive debt in the first place.MAIN REASON – REDUCING TAXES DURING A TIME OF WAR.

      They talk about how important the need to cut the spending on ALL Social safety nets is, which costs about 3 cents out of every tax dollar, they act like this is spending that is draining the country of resources. They totally ignore the fact that the military spending costs more than 50 cents out of that same tax dollar. But they will not touch it or even mention it.Do NOT MENTION IT.

      Hey! and by the way Social Security is paid for by all of us, the federal gov. pays nothing for it. It is not in Federal budget. Hell, even Reagan told us that, Were you listening? Oh! you forgot. So where would you cut spending? by cutting the 3 cent or the larger 50 cent expenditure? DUH!!!!!

      And look how these people resist being told the truth. What is that all about???? Is it because they just can’t stand being wrong about something. Really? REALLY??/

      .

      • kkflash

        The US postal service is uncompetitive – period. Their products/services are being replaced by better technology and more efficient, PRIVATE businesses. Why is it that a business (USPS) that doesn’t even need to make a profit is having its lunch eaten by businesses (UPS, FedEx, etc.) that have to compete AND provide a return to shareholders? You would think the USPS’s taxpayer subsidized, non-profit status would make it easy for them to crush the competition on pricing/service. The reason they can’t compete is simply this – they are a government entity, which is synonymous with inefficiency, waste, and substandard productivity.

      • eddie47d

        Back in the 80′s private companies tried to take away the magazine business from the Post Office .It failed miserabally and they lost money doing it. Private companies don’t want the headache of universal delivery which the Post Office has to do.

      • Flashy

        kk….do you really think that a private entity would undertake the huge responsibility of servicing every rural community, rural family, small towns, and maintain the continuity between regions, states, and nations that the USPS does?

        Give me a break. Thought and common sense are not your expertise is it…

      • Vigilant

        CaroleAnn says “They talk about how important the need to cut the spending on ALL Social safety nets is, which costs about 3 cents out of every tax dollar, they act like this is spending that is draining the country of resources. They totally ignore the fact that the military spending costs more than 50 cents out of that same tax dollar. But they will not touch it or even mention it. Do NOT MENTION IT.”

        Of course that is not mentioned, because it’s absolutely untrue. National defense covers 19% of the federal outlays, while entitlement programs consume over twice that amount (and that does not include social security). Talk about being misinformed.

        Then she says, “I am so tempted to call people morons…”

        And so am I.

    • kkflash

      RBT,: “Are unions perfect? NO. Have unions done a lot for the average American down through the years, whether or not he belonged to one? A resounding YES!”

      And your evidence of this is to try and imply cause and effect by claiming that simultaneously declining union membership and purported (though unsupported) “middle class incomes” are somehow related. Spare me any further explanation of the grand benefits America has reaped because of unions. Your argument is baseless and you hypothesis is false.

    • kkflash

      So, Right-to-work states “STEAL” workers from other states? Are those workers forced to move there and take those new jobs? Are the workers’ relocations coerced by threats of violence as are the forced unionizations in non-RTW states? I suppose then, you believe it’s “stealing” if my business obtains a new customer from another competing business by offering a better product/service at a more competitive price. You libs make me laugh.

    • JeffH

      Some are led to that unions are paltry players compared to the big, bad business lobby when it comes to buying influence in Washington and state capitols.

      Here are the ten largest donors in U.S. politics as of February 7, according to OpenSecrets.Org:

      ActBlue: $51 million

      AT&T: $46 million

      AFSCME: $43 million

      National Association of Realtors: $38 million

      Goldman Sachs: $33 million

      American Association for Justice: $33 million

      International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers: $33 million

      National Education Association: $32 million

      Laborers Union: $30 million

      Teamsters Union: $30 million

      That’s five unions to two businesses and three other groups. Five out of ten is half, by my always-suspect English-major math. And who are those other groups? ActBlue is a Democratic clearinghouse, the trial lawyers are super-lopsidedly Democratic, and four out of five of the Realtors’ top campaign-cash recipients are Democrats.

      Put another way, the list reads:

      Democratic/Union Goon proxy: $51 million

      Death Star, Inc.: $46 million

      Union Goons (public sector): $43 million

      The Committee to Re-Inflate the Bubble by Electing Democrats: $38 million

      The Bankers Who Elected Barack Obama: $33 million

      Democratic trial lawyers: $33 million

      Union Goons: $33 million

      Union Goons (public sector): $32 million

      Union Goons: $30 million

      Union Goons: $30 million

      • JeffH

        Some are led to (believe)…

      • kkflash

        I love this! Thanks for posting, JeffH!

      • eddie47d

        Saying Union goons gave you away Jeff. Your nothing but an dishonest troll. Union money comes from thousands of workers and yes its voluntary. Nothing like one man lets say Sheldon Adelson who gave $100 million of his own money to enfluence elections. I know Jeff in your book its okay for the wealthy to buy elections but the working man can’t even donate a few bucks to do the same. You mock everything and know nothing.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear eddie47d,

          You write: “Union money comes from thousands of workers and yes its voluntary.” And I maintain you are either intentionally lying or you are dumber than a sack of hammers. From http://www.seiu503.org/about-seiu/join-seiu/why-join-a-union/

          How much are union dues? What are they for?
          The dues rate is set by a membership vote. In SEIU/OPEU the dues rate for this local is 1.7% of your gross pay plus $2.75 per month.
          It takes money to run an organization, like a church, a club, or a union. Union dues pay for contract negotiation expenses, office and support services, legal services, union newsletters and other communications, training for stewards and members, and organizing.

          Will everyone have to join?
          All non-management, non-confidential, non-elected employees have the choice to become union members once a majority of employees at your employer or workgroup have voted to form a union. However, unions are legally obligated to represent everyone within the bargaining unit, whether or not they are union members. Non-members are covered by the contract, may file grievances, are represented by the union, and are even represented by a union attorney in arbitration hearings.
          For this reason, in most unions, those who choose not to become union members have to pay a “fair share” fee — their fair share of the cost of bargaining and administering the contract that protects everyone. In work sites where everyone is a union member, workers find that they can act most effectively as a union because management knows that all employees are united.

          Even those who choose NOT to be part of the union are REQUIRED to pay a fee.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • JeffH

        eddie, feel free to provide your refutation to the above post which we all know by now will never happen.

        You also say “You mock everything and know nothing.” You have just provided the board with a description of yourself.

        To a point, I have to disagree with Mr. Livingston…no either or…you’re a proven liar and it’s obvious that you’re dummer than a sack of hammers.

      • eddie47d

        Does that embolden you Jeff to be Bob’s patsy? Yes Jeff you are one of my favorite name callers and more and more it seems to be your favorite trait.

    • tombo0055

      Right brain thinker? Your a “No brain thinker”!!

  • Kaypohchee

    I live in the Far East. I had been in the computer industry for 20 years in the 80′s when I read in the airmailed ComputerWorld weekly that some corporation’s computer staff voted to join a union. And, because of that, every computer staff had to be represented by that union.

    I wrote ComputerWorld to comment “I thought USA is a free country. Aren’t employees free to join or not to join and free to decide which unions to join?” Maybe because ComputerWorld was not that concerned about freedom they did not print. But really a lot of people outside the US have the notion that USA is free. Can you please continue to publish articles like this so we know where our icon of freedom is not really free?

    • eddie47d

      Few jobs in the new tech industry are union so I’m surprised to hear that. Apparently workers aren’t treated so well there after all. I’ll assume they were voted in and that is how the voting system works in any situation. Do you think its fair that the union asks for benefits and then the non union people receive the same benefits. Isn’t that taking from someone else who achieved those benefits? It works both ways Kaypohchee. I have nothing against non union shops but if you belong to a majority union shop you should be willing to pay for increased benefits. If not then union members should receive the benefits they won and the non union members should negotiate for there own.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Do you think its fair that the union asks for benefits and then the non union people receive the same benefits. Isn’t that taking from someone else who achieved those benefits?”.
        Asks for benefits? Since when do Unions “ask” for anything? They demand it and use coercion to achieve it. And if a company decides voluntarily to pay their Non-Union Employees the same or better wages and benefits, it is none of your damn business, Eddie.
        In a Just country the thugs would be thrown in Jail the instant they used violence or trespassed illegally on the Company’s property. But we no longer have a Just country. That ended over 100 years ago. We are now overrun by Socialist Thugs like you, Eddie.

  • Will Foss

    It’s just a shame that this Right-To-Work push hasn’t carried over to dockworkers and longshoremen (ILWU & ILA). The ILA has continued to give themselves raises every year despite the economic downturn in the industry they “serve”. Their greed has now reached the point where the ILA is preparing to go on strike over contract negotiations, and shut down every single East Coast shipping terminal from Texas to Maine starting on Dec 30. They don’t even care that such a massive disruption in import/export services will likely throw the country back into a recession. Their buddy Obama has already flatly refused requests by terminal operators, steamship lines, and the major retail federations to intervene and help find a solution that benefits the country as a whole, rather than just one that serves the union and their Organized Crime bosses.

    • eddie47d

      Glad to see someone is getting yearly wages. Now no one should ask for more than what the company can afford to pay and a line has to be drawn somewhere. Union greed is no better than Corporate greed but asking for wages hardly gives unions the title of “crime bosses” unless you agree their are plenty of Corporate “crime bosses” who have their own bag of tricks.

      • Will Foss

        I am not referring to the union heads as “crime bosses” just to be spiteful. Read the Waterfront Commission report that was published in March and you’ll see that these people literally are connected crime bosses from the 5 major mafia families.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/22/nyregion/no-show-jobs-taint-new-york-harbor-waterfront-commission-says.html

        http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/2012/WaterfrontSpecialReport.pdf

        The annual raises being demanded of the industry do not get passed down to most of the union members in the end. They get a “raise”, but then the ILA raises the amount of dues each member is required to pay the union, effectively taking away the raise. They are extorting money from the industry, and also extorting money from their own union members.

        I agree that many corporations today are treating employees poorly while lining their own pockets, but they know where the boundaries are for what they can get away with. The union operates as if they are completely above the law, and think that there are no boundaries they shouldn’t cross.

      • eddie47d

        Good points there Will. I never have heard much if anything about the ILA so I can’t dispute that. Yet as far as paying union bosses it obviously has to come out of the workers pocket. We never had that problem but union bosses are like mini-executives. As you know private companies pay their upper management in the many millions to sometimes manage far fewer workers. That is not necessarily unfair but listen to some of their demands in getting those millions. Corporates bribing each other for higher and higher salaries and bonuses is getting out of hand.That means more animosity towards those below them in order for them to pay those amounts. The workers sometimes benefit from management greed and sometimes they lose. Read the stories about companies raiding workers pension funds to pay themselves.It ain’t pretty.

      • kkflash

        eddie47d says “union bosses are like mini-executives.”
        This may be the first true comparison you’ve ever made on this blog. The union bosses are in fact the executives of a “company” whose business is the fixing of labor prices at levels far above the free market prices they would normally receive. Their business strategy includes the use of bribery, collusion, coercion and violence to achieve their marketing goals.

      • eddie47d

        Sounds like KKflash is describing a whole mess of Corporates who indulge in those practices. They just do it behind closed doors inside the banks to get their deals done.

      • Will Foss

        The ILA is one of those old school entities that is based out of the New York / New Jersey cargo & shipping industry. They work hand-in-hand with Teamsters in a lot of areas, and had close ties to the likes of Jimmy Hoffa. It’s pretty much impossible to distinguish this union from criminal enterprise since it’s pretty much run by the mafia still.

        Could they possibly be a positive force on the industry if there wasn’t so much corruption? I honestly don’t think there’s enough untainted evidence to get a clear picture of how they might operate.

        Will control of the longshoreman unions ever be wrested from the control of those linked to criminal activities? Not in our lifetimes, absolutely not. City & State investigators have been trying to smoke these guys out since the 50′s, and not much has changed. The union president, Harold Daggett, drives a Bentley, has his own personal jet, and was quoted as saying “Really, these days $400,000 isn’t all that much” when defending the salary of a shop steward who had been proven to be at home sleeping during his shift hours more often than he was actually at work. Now Daggett is calling for a strike until they get paid even more money?? That really does not give the union a very good public image.

        There is plenty of similar action taken in the corporate world as well, and I would love to see more done to fight that corruption as well. The huge difference here is that if the corporation tried to walk out and protest, they’d be replaced in an instant. The union can go on strike, cost the industry an estimated $1 Bln a day, and according to their contract, are still allowed to come back to work once they get their way. This union in particular is nothing but a cancer on the US economy. Wait until December 30th comes, and assuming the strike happens, watch the economic devistation that ensues. I think even you will be appalled at the lengths this union will go to.

    • Bill

      Longshoresman jobs are a very good thing. They are so prized that they usually go to family members and not the general public. I know someone who makes $180,000 a year and he does not work very hard. His boss makes a lot more than that

      • Will Foss

        I really wish I could post a link to a copy of the NY/NJ Waterfront Commission report from earlier this year that shows just how corrupt ILA management is. They all get family hired into guaranteed lifetime positions without any vote or nomination process, which is how those positions are really supposed to be filled. They all give each other 6 figure salaries, sometimes for jobs that the people hardly ever show up for. Those very same ILA bosses are also solidly linked to major crime families and illegal activities such as racketeering and extortion. It goes all the way up to the top, including the current ILA national president, Harold Daggett.

  • Coop

    50 years ago when my father and grandfather had me join the IBEW. Unions were about competency and a fair wage for a fair days work. Today my dues goes to politicians that are completely against my values and to protect the unreliable, lazy, incompetent screwups.
    And they are too heavy for this old man to carry anymore.

  • http://www.davidlerickson.com David

    The guarantee of -right-to-work, which should more appropriately be named, right-to-fire, is that worker pay will drop. What people don’t realize is this means less money flowing into the local economy and more money flowing into the pockets of the corporations. It may boost employment to a small degree as some companies relocate, but in the long wrong it is the middle class that will pay for this as wages drop across the nation. The rich get richer and everyone else gets screwed.

    In addition, labor has less of a voice, so anti-worker legislation is more likely to pass, which will further harm the middle class, but enrich the corporations. The long term result is what we’re seeing now; the lowering of wages and benefits, job flight overseas, weaker local economies, and by off-shoot a weaker national economy, and further accumulation of wealth at the top, more power to the big players who already own a large share of Congress.

    If this trend continues, our gov’t will become a gov’t of the corporations, for the corporations and by the corporations. Of course, we all want that. Right?

    • DaveH

      David says — “What people don’t realize is this means less money flowing into the local economy and more money flowing into the pockets of the corporations”.
      No, what it means is that people will be more productive, thus creating more products which will sell at cheaper prices to benefit all of us.
      Those who buy into the More (wealth) for Less (labor) myth should read this report about Economic Freedom around the world. The actual facts prove that the Economy of a country grows inversely Proportional to the size of that country’s Government:
      http://www.freetheworld.com/2012/EFW2012-complete.pdf

    • eddie47d

      Dave H is too one sided in realizing that if you pay a worker less there is less that goes into the economy on consumer goods. They are a major driving force in our economy. Those lower paid workers will spend it on surviving (heat and gas,etc) not buying new goods. Less money hardly makes a person “more productive”! How can you possibly say such a thing? That is totally opposite of any realistic thinking!

      • kkflash

        eddie47d, your utter ignorance of economic principles is truly stupifying. Please explain how raising the price of finished goods by increasing labor costs benefits the workers who have to buy those goods for their own use? When a worker buys a product from the same company they work for, are they not buying back their own labor that went into manufacturing that product? And, if the price of that product includes a certain percentage of profit (as it must if any company is to stay in business), then is that worker not paying more for that product than they would if wages were lower? How do ever higher prices for goods and services benefit workers?
        If all the Keynesian economic theories were worth a fart in the breeze (they aren’t), then government money-printing, economic stimulus packages, and higher wages for less work would have produced financial utopia for everyone in the USA by now.

      • kkflash

        P.S. eddie47d, DaveH has shown more understanding of economic and social facts in today’s blog, than you have in all the postings of your life.

      • eddie47d

        Looks as if KKflash has his own interpretation and no more factual than mine. We both could be a little wrong and a little right.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Excellent comment, David. Succinct and speaks to the truth.

      You say, “If this trend continues, our gov’t will become a gov’t of the corporations, for the corporations and by the corporations. Of course, we all want that. Right?”

      Unfortunately, it would appear that many do want exactly that—-a corporate feudal state. Or maybe it’s just the brainwashed folks we encounter so often on PLD who want that. It’s hard to believe that many Americans would truly go against their own best interests and the greater good of the nation by supporting the goals of the plutocracy and corporate oligarchy, but here they are.

      Predictably, DaveH has cited a 300+ page book (“report”?) as proof of something in responding to your comment. It contains ACTUAL FACTS, he says. Of course, he doesn’t give us a page reference or anything and expects us to read the whole thing.

      Maybe that’s because he DID extract some “facts” from this same reference for use on another thread one time and I tore him to pieces over their misuse and misinterpretation. So I guess he’s understandably “shy” about really saying anything other than his usual canned platitudes re: this “source”. Ignore him.

      • DaveH

        RBT says — “Predictably, DaveH has cited a 300+ page book (“report”?) as proof of something in responding to your comment. It contains ACTUAL FACTS, he says. Of course, he doesn’t give us a page reference or anything and expects us to read the whole thing”.
        Well, the lazy people could just go to page 10 where the countries of the world are ranked according to their Economic Freedom. And then check out the economies of the various countries at the top and the bottom of the rankings. Even that would take a fair amount of work though.
        Or we could just listen to the emotional self-serving conjecture and propaganda that comes out of the mouths of the Liberal Progressives. It’s really up to whether the people want to start learning or they want to continue being used by Liberal Progressives.
        How do you know when Liberal Progressives are lying to you? Their lips are moving.

    • DaveR

      The reverse of your argument can be made, too. Corporations need workers, without them the corporation cannot function. The best run corporations pay their employees well enough [aka a competitive wage and benefits package] to attract and keep them. Google pays extremely well for what they consider the best talent. Professional sports team owners pay huge sums for what they consider needed talent. Why are any of these athlete employees paid millions of dollars per year, just to play a game? Hint: the hope of viewers and from that profits. Governments need workers, too, not only within government but also and especially outside of government to provide products and services and make profits that can be taxed to pay for government.

  • Bomb Shell Warrior

    My husband is a UAW worker and hasn’t got a raise in 10 years! What good has the union done for us except take our hard earned money and give it to the democrat party that we don’t support. Unions have gone from helping middle class families to being a political
    machine that only lines the union bosses pockets.

    • DaveH

      That is the natural condition for Leadership. They always benefit at the rest of the citizens’ expense.
      If you have the time, this is a very interesting read about our country’s history from the beginning of America’s discovery to the Revolution. As it turns out Freedom was a rare event in our country’s history:
      http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/Conceived%20in%20Liberty_Vol_2.pdf

      For those who don’t like reading from the computer, the pdf files can be downloaded and read on a Kindle (and maybe other eReaders) for reading in your easy chairs.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Lord love a duck, Dave!

        You have cited for us a 1561 page (THAT’S FIFTEEN HUNDRED SIXTY-ONE), four volume work that looks at the 17th. and 18th. centuries in America and you suggest that we read it IF WE HAVE THE TIME and that we might want to READ IT IN OUR EASY CHAIRS and you give us helpful suggestions on DOWNLOADING it?

        You must be joking? Or are you displaying your usual out-of-touch-with-reality thinking?

        What particular mental deviance drives you to post such inanities on PLD? (and so many)

      • DaveH

        Then don’t read it, Lizard Brain. You wouldn’t be able to understand it anyway.
        Thanks for posting though. You Liberal Progressives are my best allies when it comes to waking people up to the reality of useless Liberal Progressives.

      • DaveH

        Isn’t it comical that a guy who calls himself Right Brain Thinker would be trying to discourage people from reading and learning?

      • DaveH

        Okay, Brain, you made me feel bad. I know you feel left out, so I went to the trouble of finding something for you to read:
        http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Dick-Jane-Storybook-Collection/dp/0448448564/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1356120671&sr=8-14&keywords=dick+and+jane

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WHOA! As usual, pointing out Dave’s failings to him gets him thrashing and flailing and talking to himself as he attempts to come up with something “zingy” in reply. Dave is like the walking, talking anal orifice from hell, and if anyone ever touched a match to the gasses he emits, half the country would be burned down in the ensuing holocaust.

    • eddie47d

      Bomb Shell: That only proves that unions aren’t greedy and for 10 years have taken a back seat to Corporate CEO wage increases. Union members sacrifice for the company and gain nothing.

  • ibcamn

    hey all,im just glad this country is gonna be a right to work country soon!if you want your money you earned working hard you keep it!if you want to give money you worked for to polititions and answer to a union and have less, you can!(what the unions want[Obama too]in the Mich. vote has nothing to do with conditions and wage i believe)so it must be union greed and power,thats what they want.

  • Bomb Shell Warrior

    A friend of mine worked for the UAW, directly for them, downtown Detroit at Solidarity House, she was let go because her job was outsourced. What hypocrites! The media will never let you know this info. They fight the big 3 on this yet they do it themselves. Makes me sick.

    • eddie47d

      Then you should demand that management makes better cars to compete with foreign models. The unions can only go along with what Corporates demand from them. If management has money for their perks then maybe that is the problem.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS FROM AUSTRALIA

    When Unions who represent greedy employees who think they can stand over employers to gain excessive wages and conditions, they end up losing their jobs altogether.

    The Clothing and Footwear unions won equal pay for women in Australia during the early 1970.s and the Govt reduced tarriffs on clothing and footwear, however within 3 short years they had all lost their jibs as manufacturers all closed down and shifted all their jobs to asian nations. This is what happens when employees and their unions think they are smarter than everyone else.

  • jopa

    When this governor comes up for reelection you will see how popular this action was.Color that boy gone and all of his cronies.The incident involving the Fox news contributor/comedian was actually brought on by the Fox news guy trying to create a news story.He pushed that old guy down and the guy got back up and kicked his arse.When you see the entire clip you will see how true this is and the best comedy the guy probably ever put out unintentionally.

    • DaveH

      Once the citizens taste Real Freedom, jopa, you and your rent-seeking Liberal Progressives will be relegated to the dust bins until our next round of Prosperity results in a new wave of spoiled ignorant people.

    • eddie47d

      You are right about that Dave H and you are making sure the whole Middle Class gets swept into that same dust bin. I see alot of spoiled people taking away the working mans wages but they live at the top. More and more we are seeing Dave as one of those top takers! Yes the “ignorant” people at the bottom will probably keep taking the abuse but that is the way the Corporates want it.

      • DaveH

        How do they take away your wages, Eddie? Inquiring minds would like to know.

      • eddie47d

        What do you think Right To Work laws do?

      • DaveH

        Sure Eddie, and I’m “stealing” your money when I don’t buy your shoddily produced Union products. Right?

  • http://Gonzales Tony

    Unions might have worked back in the dino days but now you hardly hear from them at all. I joined the union and was laid off zero compensation. I say the hell with them I never signed or join a union ever again. All they want is your money in the end they get it all.

  • b ris

    Back when I was an uneducated idiot I wanted to work for Ford so badly (after serving 3 years in the Army) because my 2 best friends all through grade and high school worked at Ford and they had it so NICE!! I mean the Union protected them and saw to their needs and the workers loved it.

    For example – every Union Member had the RIGHT to take off 1 day each week(not their vacation time) with pay and the Union member would have one of his co-workers “clock” him in on his day off so he got paid for 5 days per week, but only working 4 days a week. I use the term ” working” 4 days a week rather loosely too. They had great health insurance and a good retirement program. Wow, I wanted that also.
    So did the Union do good for the workers? Sort of. It gave them the freedom to hold Ford hostage so they could goof off while they worked, then take off 20% of the time they were paid to do work and not even show up.

    Of course this meant Ford had to raise their prices to cover that cost and meant I had to pay more for my Ford pickup I have had most of my adult life.

    Even back then as a 22 year old I KNEW that was not right, but human nature kicked in and my selfishness made me want to work there. Now after working for over 30 years I know that Unions are tools of the political process and used by great Leaders such as Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Chavez, and the list of great Leaders go on and are easily identified by the longlasting success each of them achieved in their respective countries.

    Our Union Leaders have degenerated into “brown shirt” thugs who intimidate and coerce huge sums of money from the rank and file to line their pockets and buy politicians to keep the good times rolling. How many Union Bosses whose only concern is the welfare of their members make 10, 20, or even 100 times the wages of their members???

    Naturally business is not without fault. Why should any one person get paid 30 million dollars a year to run a failing business? Of course why should any air head “Artist” get $20,000,000 dollars to make a single movie or a football player get $50,000,000 contracts?

    I have never seen a movie or watched a football player who was worth more than a good Union wage in my entire life. Nor have I ever seen a business exec worth a $30,000,000 severance package either.

    The only difference is that the Union “forces” anyone who works to pay their outlandish salaries and give the “member” no choice while the so called “movie star” is paid on what ever the market will bear. We as consumers have a CHOICE of NOT paying the these lovely naked women or men a penny! All we gotta do is stay home.

    Finally I think Unions were workers greatest benefactor and did a great service until 60, 50, or even 40 years ago – but now they are the biggest negative drag on America and the world that exists.

  • nc

    NC, you work at a non-union company. The company does something that is all for the benefit of the company and to the detriment of the worker. You need your job AND YOU ALSO KNOW THAT YOU CAN BE FIRED FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN GOING TO THE “OFFICE” TO BITCH ABOUT THE CHANGE! SO YOU DO NOT GO! THAT MAKES YOU A SLAVE TO THE COMPANY POLICY WHICH IS WHY UNIONS WERE FORMED IN THE FIRST PLACE!

    PS: THERE ARE SO MANY WORKERS AVAILABLE TO REPLACE YOU DUE TO THE UNION FIGHTING REPUBLICAN RECESSION THAT YOU DARE NOT GO TO THE OFFICE.

    • DaveH

      Nonsense is nonsense, nc, whether you shout it or not.

      • eddie47d

        Then stop sreading your anti-union nonsense Dave H.

      • DaveH

        You’re welcome to dispute anything I say, Eddie. And I know you will whether you make any sense or not.

      • eddie47d

        …and dave will dispute anything I say so whop te doo.

        • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

          “whoop dee doo”

      • nc

        DaveH Have spent so much time reading about the wonder of unbridled business under Mises that you truly believe that workers are never abused! is there some right because” business is big” that they can treat workers any way they choose? What is the right of the worker in those cases! Go ahead and say what you believe! They should have no rights as a group equal to those of the business for redress of wrongs in the market place

      • DaveH

        NC says — “What is the right of the worker in those cases!”.
        They can quit and collect the back pay and anything else the company and worker contractually agreed to.

    • DaveR

      NC, I’ve worked non-union since I was 16, much of the time in companies that had unions, and am now in my late 60s. Never got fired, although I did get chastised a few times by my supervisors for being impatient [having to wait for multiple members of multiple unions to show up in time before the raw rubber cured in the extruder I was operating as part of a corporate-funded R&D project, after which I would have to wait for the pipefitter to come to turn off the steam and the mechanic to come and tear down and clean out the extruder, etc.] and doing a few things myself to make any R&D prototype products. Instead of losing my job, I got a raise nearly every year, and I always left voluntarily because I had found a better and higher paying job elsewhere. Along the way I worked for more at least 6 Fortune 500 corporations and before them a small town Chevy dealer and a farmer who raised 200 acres of vegetables which I and a dozen other young men attended to via hand labor.

      • Piped Piper

        That is the answer right there. For what we have. There is the few that want what others have and work 50 to 80 or more hours to get it. And work for 20 to 40 years. The few want what we have and want to start out working and work 40 hours a week and think they should have what someone else has worked for all their life. They are not only envious of others but pathetic in character.

  • Enough is Enough

    Anything that has OBamas backing in this country is a pathway to Austerity! From healthcare to personal liberties to the actual amount and types of jobs that the government so called created (servant) and not blue collar which is what made this country strong and prosperous is a failure! Talking about the Unions and jobs just ask the US Autoworkers that had their livelyhood sold out by the corrupt Unions that did little or nothing to stop their jobs from being farmed out to foreign countries! Not only that but the taxpayers money that was used to send those jobs overseas! Purge the dictators and solve the problems!

  • ratchett

    Those who choose not to join a union— fine, BUT DO NOT ask for the same wages, benefit package, paid time off etc afford those who are under the union contract. You do not pay dues, therefore you did not earn the right of those negotiated packages. You want your cake and eat it too. Another something for nothing group. I have been on both sides of the line, guaranteed the power all lies with management if there is not a united front to support the worker. Remember the average union worker is your neighbor, relative, friend, not the suit in Washington giving away your rights.

    • DaveH

      That’s the beauty of Freedom, ratchett. We can ask for whatever we want and it’s none of your damned business.

      • eddie47d

        All Dave H wants is for the FREEDOM for Corporates to screw the workers which puts more money in his pocket and theirs. Enough is never enough for Dave and he has to take from others (low wages) to achieve his goal!

      • DaveH

        What part of “Then don’t work for them”, do you not get, Eddie, you ignoramus?

      • eddie47d

        What part of union shop don’t you get. If you don’t like unions go work for a non-union company.

  • DEE WOOD

    There are unions and then there are unions. I belonged to the Community College Association (CCA), the Higher Ed branch of the CTA (California Teachers Association) and NO ONE was forced to join but those that did realized how much more power they had by belonging. Although I am now retired, the California contingent was the largest in the country and worked to back its members on every problem that was justifiable. I was given backing, a lawyer and hearing when a contentious situation arose. I served on the board at the state level and stood for those who had few to no rights on the campus. We were underpaid, over worked and an unprotected group. We had no benefits, no health coverage, no right of rehire and could have been dismissed in the middle of a class. And, until we formed a small union on campus, no negotiation rights. We were used and abused and discarded when some one new came along.
    And many of you say, in essence, unions are bad, evil groups. Not to those of us who needed and had their protection on the college campuses throughout the state. If I could I would still work on their behalf!

    • DaveH

      They might be good for you, Dee, but the taxpayers aren’t going to be so happy when they get the bill for your pensions.

      • DaveH
      • nc

        DaveH, everyone in this nation is not the bitter taxpayer you are! There are those of us who realize that we live in a nation of 320 million in a world with the trouble of 7 billion with the costs of that situation. No one in this country has ever starved from paying taxes and not one rich person will lose the status of “rich” by paying three times the Obama request!
        If we had YOUR dream of Mises in this country where do you see your place in that society! I”LL BET IT WOULD NOT BE ONE OF THE WORKERS!! TRUE???

      • DaveH

        When you vote for your Big Government, NC, you are voting to spend other peoples’ money. You could buy the services you want, cheaper and more politely than the Government can offer, from Private businesses, but you wouldn’t be able to Force other people to pay for YOUR desired goods and services. Only with Big Government can you Force other people to buy what YOU want. You are just a common thief, NC.

    • WideRanger

      Dee…you still had control of your destiny…you could have quit and found work somewhere decent?

      • dee9840

        I didn’t say it wasn’t “decent” but there were not many colleges in the area of Palm Springs and I was of the age that wasn’t appealing to them. I concurrently worked for a college in the upper desert and one on the military base. Full time college jobs were few and far between and budgets kept getting cut which made it worse. More and more colleges used more and more Part-time instructors because we didn’t have to be paid benefits.

      • DaveH

        It going to get worse, Dee, as more and more people learn that the internet can supply most teaching with a much smaller population of Teachers and Administrators. And the students can learn from the comfort of their own homes, saving time and money that would have been spent on transportation back and forth to colleges, and saving the environment. For lab classes and other necessary hands-on experience they could go to local facilities when needed.

      • DaveH

        I should add that self-serving Unionists will be fighting that trend with everything they have.

    • DaveR

      My mother was a teacher in public elementary school in rural southwestern PA. Not a rich community, a former coal mining area that had dried up when I was a kid. Despite that setting and no union, she somehow saved enough of her wages to pay for college for my older sister and me, although I contributed a significant amount from working during that time. And she lived well in retirement, but not from her PA school system pension or SS. The key was her personal planning and learning to defer self-gratification, disciplined budgeting, saving and learning to invest for herself in corporate stocks and mutual funds. In other words, taking personal responsibility for her life and that of her children. One of her biggest investments went entirely bust — GMC.

      • dee9840

        Thank you for your comments. You didn’t mention if they had a union at that school system. Did it exist?

  • Albert Limburg

    They could come up with a better law than the right to work law the right to work law is not for working man and women it puts more power into the hands of the Employer and it takes rights away from the Emloyees I know I live in a right to work law state .Its makes it easyer for a Employer to fire a Emloyee and he don’t realy need a good reason to fire him or her in other words He may decide He don’t like color of your cloeths or the way you fix your hair .Albert Limburg

  • s c

    _____ unions. _____ those who are in bed with unions. _____ 95% of all Washington politicians. The “right to work” concept is much more than just an idea. It goes to the heart of what’s so damned wrong with unions.
    Hey, you utopian, braindead schmucks out there. If it wasn’t for Marx and Lenin, America wouldn’t have A N Y _____ unions. Bet you never learned THAT in a _____ public school! DOWN with unions. U P with common sense and a better America!

  • http://www.facebook.com/george.somsel George Somsel

    Since Prince Harry is so fond of ensuring that Republican measures never come up for a vote in the Senate, the House should return the favor—Democrat bills are DOA.

  • Jeff

    Unions used to be good to have around, but now they are corrupt and only care about themselves and not the membership or our country. What are they afraid of? If they were valuable, efficient, selfless, fair, and actually cared about members then their numbers would be increasing and we would all approve of the unions! My union has mostly done me good, but that does not justify their corruption! I could tell alot about the golf course agreements, throwing low seniority employees under the bus, not merging with another union that would have benefited members but would have cost my union officers their jobs, using my union dues to support candidates I vehemently oppose! Just like politics and the media, we need to clean house and carry out the trash because it’s gotten to disgusting around here!!!

  • cerebus23

    Unions did good work back when business leaders were tyrannical dictators with more money than god and squeezed every ounce of blood and sweat out of their workers in often dangerous conditions.

    Unions since probably the 50 and especially the 60 and 70s became an arm of the mafia, really once we had laws in place that forced minimum wage, forced safe workplace laws, equal employment laws, etc etc, unions were less and less relevant.

    Having worked as a temp at a place where there was a union movement going on i know one of the women in my department was afraid to walk to her car alone with the way the union people acted.

    There is no excuse for a labor union to adopt the strong arm tactics of the old rockafeller carnegie labor bosses to keep the ranks in line.

  • Karolyn

    I just have to point again to South Carolina’s being a rtw state, and the only business we’ve gotten is Boeing. This state is an economic mess with no jobs!

    • DaveH
    • Paul Wells

      Karolyn, you ALMOST didn’t get Boeing!! The union tried to force them to build the plant in a non-right-work state, so union thugs would be assured of having union gravy!! That’s the simple truth of it. Obama is as corrupt as the unions are. Sad, sad!

    • eddie47d

      Just like the article says Boeing could have been doing it to “intimidate their workers elsewhere”. They must have reached a good compromise since they did build there.

    • DaveR

      Ah, isn’t BMW in SC? Last I checked they employed nearly 8000 people in their nearly $7 billion factory near Greer, SC and are the largest exporter of vehicles made in USA! Or did you mean NC and not SC?

  • Peter 10-nov-1775

    If unions are so good, then there should not be a law mandating it. If it cannot stand on it’s own, it should not stand at all. There should be a choice -what I’ve heard liberals spewing daily. If you want to join a union, go right ahead. If you do not, then don’t.

  • FreedomFighter

    My only fear about the smashing of worker unions is a possible swing to corporations being unfair to workers in the extreme…

    Unions were invented to protect workers from the extremes of unfair pay, dangerous working conditions, predatory hiring/firing practices and lack of medical care…

    Unions overstepped there mandate and became communist political powers, overbearing burdens economically and socially.

    A balance would be preferable to elimination of unions.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • JeffH

      FF says “A balance would be preferable to elimination of unions.” Unfortunately that will never happen.

    • DaveH

      That could only happen in Unfree Markets, FF. With Free Markets, companies could only mistreat you if you allowed it.

  • Frank

    I would favor changing the law so that when a union bargained for benefits, the benefits would only be given to the union members, as oppossede to the exisitng law that benefits must be given to every person in the unit, whether members or not. That would present a much clearer challenge to the union to produce and would get people to join if they got their members more than the other employees. Of course any smart employer would automatically give the same benefits to all, the same way that for many years office worker (non union) were given the same benefits as union workers, just to make sure that they would not go union.

  • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

    Doesn’t anyone remember learning about what it was like before unions? The company’s had the workers living in buildings that they owned, they charged those employee’s rent for those buildings, the food that they ate came from the company store, working 6-7 days a week for 12 (and up) hours a day. The company’s, whose employee’s went on strike for better living conditions and better wages, hired people called “strike breaker’s”. They would hurt, or kill, the employee’s, or their families, in order to get the strike stopped. Neither the company owners or the strike breakers were nice people.

    Educate yourself. Read actual history, not just someone’s opinion or propaganda.

    • http://realsustainability.wordpress.com realsustainability

      I don’t understand all the divisivness. Unions are still alive and well. It seems to me all this RTW bill does is inject choice into membership. If management gets overbering membership will go up. If management is progressive, a union is unnecessary. Management changes and unions change. It’s up each individual to decide. Kind of like the Federal government these days. Both parties are letting membership down and our dues, aka taxes, only encourage the bastards. Fundamental change is needed!

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        I’ve never joined a union. Never needed to. Where I grew up, the SF Bay Area, the type of job that I did, and the companies that I worked for, offered us better benefits than what the union was offering us. Every place that they tried to get in, where I worked, we voted them down almost 100%. I worked in the wafer fab industry.

        My Uncle, otoh, was Steel Worker’s union his whole life. He was even the President at one point.

    • DaveH

      TLGeer says — “Doesn’t anyone remember learning about what it was like before unions?”.
      You mean that history as told by Court Historians and Public School Propagandists to keep the people dumbed-down to reality and accepting of corrupt Central Government? Certainly you don’t mean Real History, such as this:
      http://mises.org/daily/3553#part1

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “You mean that history as told. by Court Historians and Public School Propagandists to keep the people dumbed-down to reality and accepting of corrupt Central Government? Certainly you don’t mean Real History, such as this:”

        And then you add another mises site. Woohoo. You are nothing if not repetitive.

        I’m talking about the history documented by those that lived through it. By the newspapers that documented it. By the journals and letters. Yes, the court hearings. But so much more. Maybe if you looked at places other than mises, you might get some education.

        Go down to your library and ask if they have microfilm of newspapers from about 1900 – 1930. Actually READ what was happening. Don’t just come up with some snarky comment about other posters and pat yourself on the back because you did so. That’s just childish.

        Educate yourself, Dave. And, no, one website is not the be all and end all of information.

      • DaveH

        TLGeer says — “Maybe if you looked at places other than mises, you might get some education”.
        Maybe, TLGeer, if you post some references, any at all, from any website, you might gain some credibility. But first you would have to find some legitimate sources to back up your falsehoods, TLGeer.

        TLGeer says — “Go down to your library and ask if they have microfilm of newspapers from about 1900 – 1930. Actually READ what was happening”.
        So TLGeer denigrates the information from Mises, but then expects you to go to the Library and look up old newspaper articles, as if the voice of the reporters will be any more valid than the well-researched articles or books that I posted? I’ve seen that same technique used by other Liberal Progressives who know full well that the average reader isn’t going to bother doing that anyway.
        Come on, TLGeer, you can do better than that, can’t you?

        And notice, Folks, that as usual the Liberal Progressive must resort to personal attacks in lieu of facts.
        Meanwhile, those who really want to learn what’s happened to our country in regards to Unions should read this documentary on the Kohler company and their experiences with Union depravity:
        http://mises.org/books/kohler.pdf

        And yeah, TLGeer, I know it’s from Mises.org. But if you would like, you can buy a copy from Amazon.com instead. Be my guest. Meanwhile, thank you Mises Institute for making all that information Free for people who can’t afford to buy the books.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        DaveH sings his same old song,

        “…..credibility….falsehoods….references…..denigrate….Liberal-Progressives”.
        “…..personal attacks…..legitimate….in lieu of facts…..those who really want to learn…..”

        Almost like verses out of a Christmans carol—-how doe that one go? “these are some of my favorite things…” FA-LA-LA, Dave.

        And he gives us a laugh-of-the-day by talking about “the well-researched articles or books that he posts”. Good one, Dave, you are of course referring to that propaganda from the Mises.org that you don’t even read, and yet you feel qualified to describe them as “well researched”—-LMAO over that one. Of course Dave knows that “the average reader isn’t going to bother to wade through all that horsepucky” anyway, so he feels free in posting it endlessly. .

        Guess what, Dave—-the truth is coming to get you! Ha HA HA Be afraid. (I am of course referring to the extensive research I have been doing on the Mises.org folks and their history—-quite illuminating. Since Dave and his retarded soul-mates have nearly destroyed this thread with their natterings, I will wait for a “cleaner one” to post my findings so that they will not be wasted). .

        Dave closes with, “But if you would like, you can buy a copy from Amazon.com instead. Be my guest. Meanwhile, thank you Mises Institute for making all that information Free for people who can’t afford to buy the books”.
        Of course, Dave doesn’t tell you why the horsepucky is “free”. There is no such thing as a free lunch, Dave, and you ought to be honest enough to tell everyone that mises.org is a propaganda arm for those who would like to make us UNfree.

        Yes, DO buy the published horsepucky. Since Dave is obviously an employee of mises.org, his salary may very well depend on such purchases. It certainly seems as if he gets paid every time he mentions mises OR “denigrates” a Lliberal-Progressive” OR pushes some Libertarian horsepucky. Why else would he so mindlessly keep doing it? It’s almost like the experiment on rats where pushing a lever produced a food pellet—-Dave is the rat and Mises rewards him. The unfortunate thing is that the rat kept pushing the lever even after the food stopped coming—-so even if mises fires him because we have found him out, Dave is likely to STILL keep pushing the “horsepucky lever”

        Do you know how to say “shill”, Dave? For a guy who is a waling, talking definition of one, you sure ought to.

    • DaveH

      TLGeer says — “The company’s had the workers living in buildings that they owned, they charged those employee’s rent for those buildings, the food that they ate came from the company store, working 6-7 days a week for 12 (and up) hours a day”.
      Company Towns? A bad thing? Well the Liberal Progressives would like you to think so, but here’s what Price V. Fishback says in “Operations of ‘Unfettered’ Labor Markets: Exit and Voice in American Labor Markets at the Turn of the Century,” Journal of Economic Literature 36 (June 1998): 722-765.:
      “It turns out, the private paradise of the company town provided stores, houses, and schools as part of a highly desirable compensation package. They did this to attract workers. Rents were low, store prices were competitive, and the schools were good. Again, the reason is competition. If the company ever slacked off or attempted to exploit a “monopoly,” workers would leave the company town to go to work elsewhere”.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        DaveH tells us that,

        “Price V. Fishback says in “Operations of ‘Unfettered’ Labor Markets: Exit and Voice in American Labor Markets at the Turn of the Century,” Journal of Economic Literature 36 (June 1998): 722-765″ and gives us a direct quote.

        “It turns out, the private paradise of the company town provided stores, houses, and schools as part of a highly desirable compensation package. They did this to attract workers. Rents were low, store prices were competitive, and the schools were good. Again, the reason is competition. If the company ever slacked off or attempted to exploit a “monopoly,” workers would leave the company town to go to work elsewhere”.

        Another quote for all to consider—I found this after a perusal of Fishback’s work revealed that he did not say the above or anything like it,

        Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr., says in “Liberty and Labor”, October 1998, Volume 16, Number 10 of Free Markets, the monthly publication of the Mises Institute:
        (Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr., is president of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, Dave’s employer and favorite horsepucky source).

        “It turns out, the private paradise of the company town provided stores, houses, and schools as part of a highly desirable compensation package. They did this to attract workers. Rents were low, store prices were competitive, and the schools were good. Again, the reason is competition. If the company ever slacked off or attempted to exploit a “monopoly,” workers would leave the company town to go to work elsewhere”.

        NOTICE ANY SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE TWO “QUOTES”? DaveH has done a VERY BAD THING here!. HE HAS LIED TO US! (YET AGAIN).

        So, it would appear that Price V. Fishback really did say no such thing, even though Dave ASSURED us that he did.. It would also appear that Rockwell’s statement is an INTERPRETATION of Fishback’s work, and a rather biased and distorted one at that, since that is what mises.org does—-distort and show bias.

        I would hope that all who visit PLD understand that DaveH is NOT an honest man and cannot be relied upon to treat us all fairly. He is not here to illuminate or educate anyone, but to propaqandize all who would let him do so. Believe ANYTHING he says at your peril.

    • DaveH

      Here another Union-promoted myth is exposed:
      http://mises.org/daily/2858

    • DaveH

      TLGeer says — “The company’s, whose employee’s went on strike for better living conditions and better wages, hired people called “strike breaker’s”. They would hurt, or kill, the employee’s, or their families, in order to get the strike stopped. Neither the company owners or the strike breakers were nice people”.
      Yada, Yada, Yada.
      Wouldn’t you Folks like to know the truth about the violence? Do you get tired of hearing about the Big Bad Company owners from people who lie to you daily about such things as the state of the economy and the justification for meddling in other countries’ business?
      Read this:
      http://mises.org/daily/1604

    • DaveR

      True, but incomplete. Keep reading and you’ll also learn that benefits were first offered to employees voluntarily by corporations to retain them and keep them happy and productive. And once one company started doing so, others followed suit.

  • Joyfully retired

    I am very surprised and excited that Michigan where I lived and worked for the first 64 years of my life has become a right to work state. As a public servant in Michigan I was required to be a member of the UAW. My spouse, a District Court Probation Officer, was required to be a member of the Teamsters. Both of us paid heavy union dues automatically withheld from our pay checks. We could opt out of the union, if we sent a letter to the union, however, we would still be required to pay the dues, but we would just not be represented. ??? We missed the fair logic in this reasoning. When I asked a union administrator why it was fair to use my dues for political campaigns of Democrat candidates, she said no dues were ever used for political purposes, those advertisements (propaganda) were educational. Michigan has turned a corner. It has taken a huge step toward becoming a free and prosperous state once again.

  • FreedomFighter

    off topic:

    Deport British Citizen Piers Morgan for Attacking 2nd Amendment

    British Citizen and CNN television host Piers Morgan is engaged in a hostile attack against the U.S. Constitution by targeting the Second Amendment. We demand that Mr. Morgan be deported immediately for his effort to undermine the Bill of Rights and for exploiting his position as a national network television host to stage attacks against the rights of American citizens.

    And here is a link to the petition on the White House website.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/deport-british-citizen-piers-morgan-attacking-2nd-amendment/prfh5zHD

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • DaveR

      What good, if any, is that WH petition website other than serving as a means to facilitate the WH in targeting those who complain to them? Better to stop watching Mr. Morgan and write CNN to tell them why you are doing so. Or contact the sponsors of his show.

  • http://www.facebook.com/valeria.lindholm.3 Valeria Lindholm

    First off why does Obama go around telling people they will lose their “rights” to collective bargaining? We don’t get our rights from some piece of legislation. Our rights are inherent within us and we get them from our bill of rights. Second I am glad our state went right to work. I believe the employer who hires you retains the right to run his business and to make a profit at it. The RIGHT to prosper. These unions support workers who like to go out at noon in a parking lot and get drunk and high, go back to work and do nothing. That was the fiasco Chrysler faced. They fired all five of them guys and then the unions go to work, they all got their jobs back and they are out there making the cars we drive. That is BS. Unions are not a good thing and yes they are thugs. Thugs to employers who gave union workers a good job in the first place. Thugs to our capitol building. A lot of those people who were there protesting didn’t even live or work in Michigan. Yet they thought it was all well and good to tear down a tent giving no thought to the people who were inside of it. Didn’t care if those people who got trapped were hurt or not. I think unions should just go away. Far Far away. and not come back. I sure am glad we have people here who recognize the fairness of a good days work for a FAIR wage. They used to say, if you don’t want to join the union go work somewhere else. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Want to join a union? Go work where they have them. LOL your not gonna do it MY state.

  • tangshuichun

    no one mentions more disposable income for the right-to-work states. any wonder why union mafia was so desparate to see their fraudulent scheme now exposed. these union mobs don’t even have to use gun to rob, but shear intimidation in the work place. you can find these mob hanging around the water fountain and take extended break. instead putting eight hours of honest work, they be lucky if they even get out their bed to work and live on disability and food stamp with union pay. dump the union and save america workplace and famiy. God bless America!

  • G Norwood

    What a GREAT VICTORY FOR AMERICA! I know the democrats, union bosses and Obama are gritting their teeth at this one…Ha Ha Ha!

  • G Norwood

    Why would anyone in this day and age, GIVE their money away to a union that revolves around biases, when they can keep their hard-earned dollars for themselves and their family?? Let’s hope the remaining 26 states see the light and the way!

  • t.e.smith

    the department of labor and statistics says that union workers make more than non union workers. and the only reason non union company s pay half way decent salaries is to keep unions out !!!!
    I guarantee that average wages will go down in Michigan for most folks, no matter how hard they work.

    • http://realsustainability.wordpress.com realsustainability

      If management gets outta hand in non-union shops those shops can still unionize and every single worker can still pay their dues and stop unfair labor practices. Gun owners should have the same right, but the feds will pass unconstitutional laws preventing it. Unions still have it pretty good. Gun owners DO NOT!

    • DaveH

      TESmith says — “I guarantee that average wages will go down in Michigan for most folks, no matter how hard they work”.
      There are so many factors involved in that equation that such a guarantee would be meaningless.
      For instance, wages may go down, but not enough to offset the savings from absence of Union Dues. Or the productivity may go up (more like probably would) so that more goods are produced thus allowing more profit for the company which usually means higher wages for their workers. In a competitive environment, companies that show large profits, but don’t share them with their workforce, will see their workers going elsewhere for employment.
      Across an entire economy, as people produce more, those goods will be less scarce on the Marketplace, and thus will command lower prices from the consumers. So wages might go down but the lower wages would be offset by the lower cost of living. In other words, the workers’ Real Wages would increase or at least remain level, even though the Nominal Wages were decreasing.

    • alrecart459

      This is untrue. As a business owner I pay a competitive wage because I want to attract quality workers to my business. This is the bull crap argument always thrown out there. BTW, are you union thugs buying your clothing from China from workers who were paid a pittance because there are no clothing manufacturers left here in the USA??? Where is your outrage in all of the crap shipped into WalMart stores? If the unions continue there will be nothing left here but despair! Keep looking for “made in the USA”, it’s getting harder and harder to find!

      • DaveR

        Good points. Also ask them where they, their friends and their families shop! WalMart did not become the giant it has by supplying products people refused to buy. Why does Walmart now supply nearly 1/3 of all groceries in USA?

  • Fred

    The problem is there are too many who have the right to NOT work but still get paid. Welfare.

  • alrecart459

    Unions destroy business!!! Obummer says ““What we shouldn’t be doing is trying to take away your rights to bargain for better wages and working conditions.” Unions have run so many businesses out of their states! Take Creme Lure Company. My mother worked for the Creme’s over 50 years ago, awesome company and my mother loved her job! The union tried to move in and the owners took the company the hell out of Akron, OH to TX! Just like the rubber worker unions in Akron and their greed destroyed families and jobs were shipped out of town and the city was turned into a crap hole!! That is all the unions are good for, destroying hard working families for their greed! The government already legislates job safety and minimum wage. Businesses don’t owe employees anything other than a paycheck for a days work! If you want to be the boss and write your own check than start up your own business!

  • Don

    Having been both a public union employee and union board member, as well as a department head and manager over-seeing public employee union workers, I can attest to the good and the bad that unions bring to the workplace. I honestly cannot support unions for public employees. The unions use employee dues to help elect and re-elect public officials(mostly Democrats) who then reward the unions with higher wages and more benefits, paid for by taxpayers. This is a self-sustaining vicious circle, and no one is representing the taxpayer at the table. Additionally, poor performance union workers that should be fired are protected by insane labor-management rules, making them almost impossible to remove from the payroll. Again, the taxpayer suffers when poor performing union workers remain on the job. Public employee unions with a gangster/thug leadership mentality(and they do exist), can literally destroy workplace efficiency and harmony. Again, the taxpayer suffers, as well as the municipality.

    • Mark A Raymond

      You are exactly right my friend. At one time unions had a place in america, but as you stated they mostly protect lazy unproductive people costing factories and taxpayers alot of money every year. Id have no problem with unions if they were equal opportunity providers, but when you look at the facts,no matter whats said by them they have no desire to help and protect your job or anyones for that matter.As long as dues are paid and their pockets lined they dont give a rip about saving anyones job.anyhow liked your comment.

  • richard brooks

    lol. you guys still arguing over this? you will never convince the gop peons that right to work for nothing is not good for the economy. they will simply ignore you. until the day they are replaced by someone who has agreed to work for less than them.
    which is the only answer to the decreasing customer base. employers will demand lower wages and higher production to deliver a product that the low wage peons are able to purchase.
    eventually, it will all collapse.
    the company’s that use the low wage country’s that now produce so much of what we import, are forced to export their goods. simply because those low wage workers do not earn enough to purchase the goods they produce.
    the problem we see today in this country is the shrinking customer base due to the low wages the gop peons support.

    as to the wage discrepancy. management now makes about 24 times more than the average worker. they demand increasing compensation and bonus’ every year. which is rather ironic. considering they are selling lower wages as the answer to the current economic state.

    perhaps the low wage supporters would be willing to lead by example. by demanding lower wages for themselves. i doubt that will ever happen.

    the only real question that you will have to answer for employment in the future. how cheap will you work. before you answer, remember, the gop is bringing even more cheap labor immigrants in every year. not to mention the illegals.

    after we finally rid the country of the evil unions, we should eliminate those nasty labor laws. get rid of osha. bring freedom back to the work place. bring back the good old days of the coal mines and the cotton mills.

    • DaveH

      richard says — “eventually, it will all collapse”.
      Yep. Richard is correct. The right to work will result in more productivity, better and cheaper product, and thus more prosperity. So then we will accumulate more wealth, which will result in another wave of spoiled Socialists wanting to take what other people have earned and once again we will be faced with collapse.

    • Piped Piper

      Do you proof read your comments. You sound like the liberal I think you are but really it is confusing because your on both sides of the fence. You should of been Obama’s speech writer. I seen him talk about 1 thing and at the end of the speech said the exact opposite. That way he gets everybody that supports him, being the dumb A Holes that they are that they all will get a piece of the pie when someone has to lose….. You said the the right was looking for cheap labor to produce this or that and they wanted illegals and unfair immigration. LOL That is the left policy. You say you are for unions in 1 breath and then say you want amnesty in the next. The right wants to controll the borders the most. The left wants to get the illegals votes. That is what I hate about the left they only want power at the cost of many. And the many are the very people that vote for them. Just get the votes and just giving the different groups enough rope to hang themselves. Someone has to lose. Bring over illegals, lower the wages. The unions or the worker loses but the left says in power. That is why Obama talks out of both sides of his mouth to confuse them and throw out all the talking points about the “right” that some of the people on the left might not agree with, and not really look at the policy’s that he really in promoting. The Divide and Conquer is his biggest Policy that I have seen and it seems to be working.

      • http://GOOGLE Dee

        Before you “cast any stones”, I think you might find an editor for your own grammar and usage. Get help!

        • Piped Piper

          Next thing you will be saying is that I am Racist.. That is what someone told me that you Liberals say when you don’t know what to say because someone actually told you the true facts. Is that you don’t have good grammer and your racist. I said I can not and will not believe that. But it is true that guy must be a prophet………..

          • dee9840

            I said nothing about being a Liberal, although I am a Democrat and believe in equality.and I said nothing at all to indicate that you might be a racist. You appear to be reading into things that aren’t really there.
            It is true about your grammar (note correct spelling of the word) and that you do need help with your writing skills. Until you work on that I suggest that you not attack others about their writing.

          • Piped Piper

            Sarcasm, have you ever heard the word . I guess you don’t know what it is are means. But use better grammer look at the word. I bet your a great poem writer too. The trees, the leaves, the sea the bees O, gee you libtard fly free. lol

      • DaveH

        Piper says — “Next thing you will be saying is that I am Racist”.
        To which Dee replies — “I said nothing at all to indicate that you might be a racist. You appear to be reading into things that aren’t really there”.

        Don’t know about Piper’s grammar, Dee, but your reading comprehension needs some work.

    • Piped Piper

      Do we even have E-Verify yet. The conservatives want it and the liberals don’t. Do you even know what you are saying. Do you know what E-Verify is. Anything to get the vote is their/The Lefts motto. Divide and Conquer. The consevatives want Right to Work but for AMERICANS How hard is this to understand. Wake UP

    • DaveR

      I think we should start with demanding less government and less money for government workers [sic]. Government unions were said to be unnecessary and inappropriate by none less than FDR and union leaders back in FDR’s time. What happened to change that rationale other than political influence and lust for power?

  • Newspooner

    Actually, some unions can be very good if they are entirely voluntary. I said SOME and ENTIRELY voluntary. One of the biggest problems, however, is that as even good unions become bigger, there is a serious tendency for a self-interest hierarcy to evolve in the leadership (“fatcats”) who no longer work for the good of the individual members but for the power structure of the union. The only way to counteract that flaw is competition and/or totally free right to egress for union members. And, as the unions become fatcat and union entity oriented, they invariably look for monopoly style protection from competition and membership decline. This brings government favoritism into the picture, and the ship really hits the fan. So, in addtion to being personal fiefdoms of the power hungry union leaders, the unions become lobbyists for big government, whether individual union members like it or not. Consider the National Teachers Association. No other organization in the history of the United States has done more to advance the cause of communism than the NEA.

    And on a similar note, if you consider the United Nations to be sort of a union for countries of the world, you see a similar pattern of Orwellian promotion of total control (communism, fascism, slavery) over all individuals, whether they choose to be “union” members or not. Get the US out of the UN, and get the UN out of the US. Otherwise, all liberty will be lost.

  • DaveH

    Unionists say they need higher wages or deserve higher wages. In reality they “desire” higher wages. Instead of being grateful that they live in such a wealthy nation, and that they don’t have to live in grass huts or walk a half-mile to gather their water supply for the day, they want to take what they desire from other people who have made the sacrifices that it takes to accumulate their wealth. They coerce more than voluntary market wages from company owners, and by getting together in their self-congratulatory gangs they convince each other that they are doing something moral and decent, when in fact they are just engaging in theft of other peoples’ property.
    The real irony is that it isn’t the Companies who are keeping them from being prosperous the honest way, it is the very same Big Government which they elect to do their dirty work. A Government which in 1900 spent only 6% of our GDP, but now spends over 40% of our GDP. Imagine that, 40% of the average American’s paycheck going to support the Leaders and their Pals. Is it any wonder that they have trouble making ends meet?

  • Robert Rashbrooke

    I seldom accept anything that DaveH posts simply because it contradicts most of my life’s experiences. This time he has really upset me, by saying that unions were NEVER needed. Instead of relying on a single (Mises) source for his “facts” relating to work and the economy he needs to expand his outlook and read what some alternate theorists/historians say about the subject, possibly Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn. I do remember seeing a TV documentary with mine owners using men with Vickers machine guns keeping workers striking for better pay and conditions out of their mines in order to prevent a settlement.

    It seems to me that DaveH is a pretty mean spirited person, having read the snide and sarcastic comments he responds with, and certainly not the sort of debater who would convince anyone of the error of their own thoughts in favor of his. Not everything that Eddie or RBT et al postulate are incorrect or impossible to achieve but DaveH can be counted on to immediately refute their argument, a stance that is not likely to engender reasoned debate!

    We live in a very complicated world and there is no single argument that can cover every situation, as lawmakers constantly belatedly discover. There are employers who MUST be controlled by law and rules, and at the same time there are employers who act honorably toward their workforce and do not need to be monitored and controlled. DaveH seems to be of the opinion that ALL employers are honorable and just men who philanthropically start businesses JUST to give gainful employment to the stupid masses who are too intelligently handicapped to work for themselves and therefore deserve to be paid 400-500 times the salary they so willingly pay the employees.

    Many times in the past I have asked people like DaveH to give me an example of ANY job that justifies a salary of $10 million a year, let alone $125 million paid to the CEO of United Health Care, since I do not belive such justification exists. Without my pension from my previous employment I could not get by on the $22K I get paid in North Central Florida.

    His previous explanation that “managers” are more intelligent, harder working and more experienced than common or garden employees and thus justify their exorbitant salaries also flies in the face of experience, since there are plenty of laid off ex managers around who have just as much difficuly in obtaining employment along with the dimwitted hoi polloi.

    For myself, I cannot understand why employees should rejoice at the thought of unionism being drastically curtailed in this country, since historically it WAS due to their efforts that working conditions and salaries rose in this country, through influence of the social thinking of a large proportion of the population called the ‘workforce’.

    .

    • DaveH

      Again with the same comment? Are you nagging us, Robert?
      My responses to your same comment earlier:
      http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/21/right-to-work-wins-in-michigan/#comment-790965

    • Right Nrain Thinker

      Welcome to the “World of Understanding DaveH”, Robert.

      You have done a good job of recognizing many of Dave’s failings. (And received from him yet another meaningless “inanity” in response, although he DID refrain from his usual low level name calling)

      Dave is most decidedly NOT a “debater who would convince anyone of the error of their own thoughts in favor of his”, particualrly since he has very few original; “thoughts” beyond his mises.org links (which he misuses and distorts badly, even to the point of outright lying to us about them). I have pointed out at least two instances of that in other places on this thread. Dave’s “immediately refute their argument” stance is not designed to engender reasoned debate but rather to INHIBIT and DISCOURAGE debate! Dave has NEVER “refuted” a single thing I have said on PLD anyway—-all he ever does is post a mises link and call names in an attempt to divert everyone from seeking truth.

      You talk about DaveH’s “opinions”. You give him far too much credit—-forming an opinion implies doing some thinking about some facts and coming up with a “unifying theme” or opinion about what those facts may mean. DaveH doesn’t do that—-he has POSITIONS, which he presents without thought as he simply propagandizes anyone who wastes the time to read his horsepucky.

      You are right on the money when you say, “For myself, I cannot understand why employees should rejoice at the thought of unionism being drastically curtailed in this country, since historically it WAS due to their efforts that working conditions and salaries rose in this country, through influence of the social thinking of a large proportion of the population called the ‘workforce’” Anyone who has half a brain and half an education knows that you speak the truth there. It is unfortunatel that so many of the 99% have bought the lies of the plutocracy and the corporate oligarchy and work AGAINST their own self interest.

  • nickkin

    This is for Dee….you claim that the teaching profession is the lowest paid professional profession…..wrong….let’s look @ the Registered Nursing profession…..a life and death situation for these nurses that work all year long. No summer offs and poor bene’s. Didn’t offer 401 K’s except in the last 7-10 years. Had to pay for their hospitalization for a decent plan other than accepting a poor plan. Granted Dee, the hospital admin. got the better deal similar to your school admin. deals. Unions came about in the last couple of years but with no real help to the striking nurses. They were simply replaced by “strike force nurses”. Was there something similar for the teacher’s strike so the pupils could continue their schooling ? I don’t think so !

  • wilson Allen

    I am glad that it was defeated. I belonged to the Teamsters whom did a terrible job representing UPS workers. I believe that you should be able to work and have the choice of belonging to a union. The leaders get richer and richer with multiple salaries and the workers get the crumbs along with poor representation.

  • Yolly

    Tell me: if the Republicans thought this was such a great and popular idea, why did they ram it through in double quick time and – get this – stack the public gallery seating with staffers so the public couldn’t watch the “debate”. Answer: the GOP doesn’t really believe in democracy any more. It’s that simple. They are the prisoners of the extreme right, now a quasi-fascist party, and they will do anything to satisfy their puppet masters, the military-industrial machine and the howling morons of the tea party. The workers know what’s going on – don’t think for one moment you will win, just like you got so comprehensively whipped in the Presidential election. Bring it on – the 99% are just waiting for an excuse.

    • Piped Piper

      I don’t live in Michigan. But I guess you do. Now you know how it feels. When the dems. lost the 2010 election in Nov. then pushed the Obamacare through in December when they wouldn’t hold the house of reps. in Jan when at the time over 60 something% did not want it. The Conservative Party finally woke up. And learned something from the master obama. Personally I think when in Nov. when the other party loses because though the prior 2 years the people wanted things to change. They maybe can change the law so that the party in charge can not ram things down the others throat when the People said not to in an election. In Michigan the people said they wanted a RIGHT TO WORK STATE and you don’t even want the people to have what they voted on. You must be getting your order up in Michigan from California when the people vote on something and the liberals don’t like it find another way to BYPASS THE LAW. Like you liberals been saying. They won get used to it.

    • nickkin

      If you think the gop is one sided and against democracy what in the heck do you think your marxist union is.? When you have a demand for dues and you have no say on what party the union supports, where is the democracy in that ?

    • DaveR

      Yolly, nor due the Dems currently in Congress and our Prez., Rahm Emanuel et al. They also well understand “Never let a crisis go to waste” or “Seize the day” or “Make hay [or laws] while the sun shines.” The Dems in Congress and Executive branch prefer not to follow the Constitution, apparently they consider it outdated, as they do actually reading proposed legislation before passing it despite lack of majority public support, e.g. Obamacare. If the RTW law in Michigan proves to be counterproductive or if the unions can mount a good campaign [they might want to hire Axelrod who is obviously very good at his work], they can introduce legislation to repeal that RTW law.

  • Mark A Raymond

    You know it really shows how ignorant and uninformed the sheep in the union are by the comments in here by obvious union members. The only reason unions have benefited in mich was they protected lazy people who were unproductive and really didnt care about quality work or production quotas. Ive personally been in every auto plant in the country, and it use to piss me off when you could see literally people sleeping on the job,making home projects, or doing things non affiliated to the auto plant in which they worked. This laziness and unproductivity has been the reason for auto prices skyrocketing. And these union thugs have the nerve to dictate to the public what we will accept? I dont think so. Id like to know where in the constitution or any document it states that in order to work you have to join a organization that you have to pay a fee to work in this country. Unions wave banners and american flag, when in reality they are no more american than communist china or russia. These union idiots, or sheep as i like to call them cant even think for themselves. If unions were so great then why didnt they fight to keep plants from closing and moving to mexico or some other nonunion foriegn country? Ill tell you why, they dont have the power they once had to protect your jobs from a govt hellbent on selling us down the drain. Yet union sheep still follow and think their doing whats right,HOW STUPID ARE YOU? The union like the govt dont give a rats ass about your job or family or anything except lining their pockets with your hard earned money all under the guise of job protection. And thats the reason america is in the shape its in because people are so stupid they follow any idiot just because they talk nice promise air castles you name it.

    • nickkin

      Mark…it is a proven fact that HYPOCRITES CANNOT IDENTIFY ANOTHER HYPOCRITE !

  • http://facebook.com Madeleine Tector

    I am a Republican, at least I was until this past few months, and I am a union member, I get a pension from the Union, My husband paid in for 30 years and now we are getting a good pensdion, th Rothchilds don’t want that, they want seniors broke and on their knees which explains why that poor beggar and opportunist Rand Paul is constantly bombarding us with insulting scary emails. and of course asking for money, his favborite pastime. No one ever forced us ot join the union, you had ot vote on it and 3 years went by because one person didn’t want it, finally he agreed since we got no raises in that time , we joined and we have never been sorry, good work benefits and hours and pay,

    now that 16 million Immigrants are waiting at the door to get in this is really not the time to stop Unions or do the Republicans plan on hiring them all for coolie wages, they dont’ want to pay all of those illegal immigrants decent wages so no unions for them. There is a slew of reasons this is happneing, one is the Republicans are delifcate flowers, they are really angry over not getting the Unions backing, they never did, but they get enough corporate money to see them through, No one said anything when Romney came up with 6 million dollars from his buddies and so did Obama , from Monsanto, that was OK though, Monsantos CEO is now head of the FDA if you can imagine that. This is all coming from the Rothchilds, they want the Social security dropped too, a man today on Fox news ,I didn’t catch his name though it was funny when he said people invested with Madoff and lost all their money, where is the big deal , you invested your Social security money and lost it too, thats all , of course Madoff is doing life in Prison , the thieves in Washington got away with it, so we lose our pensions and we lose our social security and we wind up in concentration camps, they would love to see that since most of them are Nazis anyway. I don’t know why this liberty group is doing this, not without some help from some undergrounder, George Soros maybe, this smells like him. ,

    The reason all of the plants and shops they are talking about are doing well is because they are paying lower wages thats why, they are down south paying lower wages, you figure it out. They tried ot say Detroit , Michigan s car companies all left because otf the Unions, thats not why, they didn’t want to pay decent wages, they went else where, where they could pay less money and left Detroit a ghost town. They didn’t start unions for nothing, In NY everyone wanted a Union Job, you can’t get fired on the spot and you get paid vacation time and sick leaves, and raises, I have no idea what the teachers union is doing but the minute they started their complaining the big labor unions got thrown into it, we didn’t want to either, they used that as an excuse. They also put some young rabble rouser with an awful personality in the Union pickets, he was so arrogant and nasty, I felt like smacking him myself, at first they didn’t take that tent down themselves, they were pushing and shoving and they fell into the tent , why the tent was there I have no idea. This is all very desperate, the right wing can’t get rid of us fast enough but our unions seems to be doing OK. they have some more union shops, if you want to work but don’t want to join a Union , fine, go ot one of the right to work shops , thats all, no one is stopping you but they know darn well a Union shop can not hire non union people and make their people pay for the ones who don’t want to work they will have trouble getting work there. The union shops are already full so it won’t be easy to get work there , when people retire with a good union pension the people who didn’t pay in will have ot keep working I guess. how does that work?.

    If you don’t want Unions, give the real reasons, its not because you care about the people, I know Rand paul doesn’t , he is always grubbing for money, maybe he should get a job in a Union shop, he is a sneak and I removed myself from his mailing list. he is dispicable. Most Unions are good, they work for the workers, I never heard of the SIEU, no one seems ot know where they ocme from, and the teachers union I never agreed with because it is a career, not a job and they work for the city , they also make great wages so I can’t figure out why they have a Union but they strike and the kids suffer. thats not us. we belong to the Lithographers union and they are run now for the last 7 or 8 years by the teamsters, and they have been fine, no problem , all of a sudden the right wing wants us out, after 100 years of unions they want ot close us down, well good luck with that I dont’ think its going to work because you are not offering any better and in all honesty, I have never heard of anyone who didnt’ want ot be in a good union, Rand Pauls whole family, 60 some odd people were put to work in Government jobs by Ron Paul, they never had to worry about good wages, most people in office don’t, we pay their salary and we pay their medical and retirement, they have no problems, maybe we ought to change that, we can picket too and start attack groups , let them pay their own retirement like the rest of us , we don’t give them all of that so they can come back at us and take what little we have built up and put aside for our retirement. I guess they really do want to keep people from having jobs or extra money.George Soros is always glad ot help do that. Obama raised my deductables fromj 700 a year for my husband and me to 4 thousand a year, 4, 440.00 a year, this is the free health care , or the affordable health care he promised us, this is my husbands medical from his union, this is what we wound up with and I doubt that any Union is going to back anyone next time. I will start working on that retirement thing today.

    • DaveR

      Madeleine,

      I note that multiple presidents from both Democratic and Republican parties have done little or nothing to stop the influx of illegal aliens into USA or to deport them, including Mr. Obama. So, its not just GOP business owners who potentially want those illegals to become legal permanent residents of USA. Those who support scofflaws will encourage more scofflaws to the detriment of society and our country at large. We are today witnessing effects of that, and not just in the context of union v. non-union labor.

  • FreedomIsNotFree

    What the Union trolls aren’t telling you (or maybe they don’t know) when they cry about the huge wages of the Corporate top…is the huge wages and bennies of the Union bosses. Check this out:
    http://www.kansascity.com/2012/05/12/3608026/united-in-largesse-boilermakers.html

    This is a Union of 59,000 workers in U.S. and Canada. Unions do not produce a product as corporations do. Their funding comes from union dues. So you could say that they truly are living off their members!

  • OneDamnAngryAmerican

    “Right-To-Work” only means one thing. It is not a law that “guarentees” you a job; it is a law that says that you “do not” have to join a union, to get a job. Why in heck are so many people p-ssed off about that? Seems like everybody in MI are either a bunch of crooks, or, at least, the most ignorant people on the planet!

  • Lawrence

    All of you are blind. The god of this world[satan] has blinded you. Obama is not even an american. He will use any thing he can including progressives, socialists, fascists, comunists NAZIs, you name it to promote the destruction of the country Iserved for21 years in the USAF to establish a one world dictatorship. Wake up!

    • http://midcontent brand inspector

      Also this maddrass educated, marxist sure isn’t a Christian, he is a drug using/dealing anything abhorant to USA and or private business and freedom of Americans, wheather by 90 regulations every week being imposed on USA citizens and private enterprises.

  • http://www.facebook.com/kurt.vanluven Kurt Van Luven

    Unions played a role in times past, but now people can find work many ways. If you do not like your job, find another. To be competitive, business must also compete for labor. I work on commission, so the economy shrinks, i make less. Things get better, I make more. The place I work at, therefore, can stay competitive. By the way I have no “benefits”, save one. I have not been unemployed for more than two weeks IN 30 YEARS!
    Think of it, who needs the union most? The poorest worker who makes as much as many better workers in the union. I don’t hear anybody crying about that.

  • http://midcontent brand inspector

    Unions only prove an indiviuals are too stupid and lazy to negieate for their pay, benifits because there are too many worthless idoits that should be paid what they produce, instead what they think they are worth.Unions never creaye anything but butt ackes for any business, unless it is the government business, which is a complete waste of taxpayers money.

  • ibcamn

    ah,crap!!…was out sledding with my daughter,i see i really missed all the fun today!ooya..go Mich.!…now company’s can start to prosper……..later all.

  • mamba

    Yeah Michigan! It’s called FREEDOM OF CHOICE! Pretty darn simple.Same with just about any issue y’all foam at the mouth about (the libs on this sight anyway) Why own an assault rifle? Why own anything? Why do some people have 20,000 square foot plus homes, drive Hummer’s or have stuffed moose heads hanging from their walls? Because we are a FREE country and free agency means you take the good, the bad and the ugly. Libs would like to change that. Conservatives understand what that means.

  • nickkin

    One of things that the union peops forget…..how much income did you lose when you were on strike? Did your union heirarchy lose anything? I think not. They GOTCHA!

  • http://miami,com Dwane Brown

    Well, unions are not mentioned in the EO recently signed by POTUS where the salaries for the SES, Congress, and VPOTUS will be increased by .5% next year. So tell me, why not?

  • JPHyatt

    For the party of “earn your keeps” to support the “right to work” is ridiculous. Unions negotiate wages, benefits and protect the workers. There is effort and real work involved in such action. The people who opt out of paying dues yet accept the benefits, wages, and protection are not earning their keep. There should never ever be legislation that is enacted that is anything like the “right to protection, higher wages and better benefits without paying in nominal dues.” The union members are working for increased wages, benefits, and protection SOLELY because of the unions. For a working person to vote against their own best interest or “right to work.” is completely stupid. So a person pays like 7 cents on an hour to earn 30% higher wages and the aformentioned greater benefits and protection is very nominal. It is clear what bankrupts companies and it sure isn’t unions. It’s CEO and board member salaries. Often up to 500 times the amount of yearly incomes of the real workers.—–As far as freedom of choice. Where is the freedom of choice when it comes to Gay marraige? Think about it mamba.

    • Chris AR

      Apparently workers do not see the value that their unions provide and/or do not want their dues going to support candidates who do not share their values. Perhaps if unions backed out of politics and focused on negotiating with management in support of the worker, the outcome would have been different. Since “right to work” doesn’t prevent a worker for voluntarily joining a union- then the ball is in the unions court to prove they provide value.

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