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Restructuring Western Economies A Must

October 20, 2011 by  

Restructuring Western Economies A Must

Only three years after the world’s financial crisis in 2008, the global economy is slowing down again. At the start of the year, most forecasters expected global gross domestic product to expand in the range of 4.3 percent to 4.5 percent, it probably will only be around 3 percent.

While economic growth in many Asian and Latin American countries remains relatively strong, Western countries are hit much harder. Economic growth in Europe as well as the United States has slowed significantly in recent quarters, and it looks like many countries will experience little to no growth this and next year.

Even harder hit are the “problem” countries like Greece, Italy and Spain, just to name a few. Many of these nations have slipped back into an economic contraction, and negative growth will become even worse next year as the austerity measures in many of these countries will exacerbate the situation because governments are forced to cut spending. There is simply no easy way out of this challenge; Western nations have lived above their means for too long.

Since there is no easy solution for today’s problems, what can be done to manage and improve the situation in the future? Clearly, in a difficult situation like this, it takes a lot of hard work and a sound plan to restructure Western economies. It means that people from different political parties have to come together and work for the mutual benefit of a country. What bothers me about today’s situation is the fact that no one seems to be willing to listen or work together. This is very obvious in politics, where either that or this party claims to have the answer to today’s challenges.

Just think of the long fight between Democrats and Republicans about the increase of the debt ceiling. It was an almost endless discussion that, in the end, only hurt the American people. The real damage was done to the creditability of the United States as a country, in a time when foreign capital is needed more than ever before.

A similar fight currently takes place in economics. There is a big fight between so-called Keynesians (followers of economist John Maynard Keynes), typically liberal-minded economists and the Austrians (Austrian school of economics), a much more conservative-minded school of economics. Keynesian economics argues that private sector decisions sometimes lead to inefficient outcomes; therefore, the public sector needs to actively balance the economy. Austrians blame the Keynesians for today’s economic problems, because in their view there is simply too much money printing going on today and the government gets involved way too much. On the other hand, the Keynesians believe that in today’s situation, it is absolutely critical that governments keep spending money in an effort to balance the lack of economic growth in the private sector.

The long-term goal of the “Keynes” principle is to smooth out economic cycles by acting counter cyclical. When demand is low, increase spending. When demand is high, reduce spending. At first glance, that’s not a bad idea. However, today’s situation is different. Keynes’ model probably works in a more normal world, one in which governments are not already carrying such high levels of debt.

Most large central banks in the world today have a very expansionary monetary policy. This shows up in the fact that interest rates have been trending lower for many years and have now arrived at virtually zero. Also, central banks are providing extra liquidity to the financial system in different ways in order to ensure that the world financial system keeps properly functioning. The real problem with today’s situation is that the increased liquidity is not helping the economy. It’s not creating jobs or producing investments; therefore, it will not create any meaningful economic growth.

A central bank like the Federal Reserve in the United States or the European Central Bank can theoretically expand its balance significantly above today’s already inflated levels. It just means that more U.S. dollars and euros will get pumped into the system. Today, the main function this liquidity has is to calm the system and stabilize the banks. This money printing will weaken these currencies, which is already obvious with the U.S. dollar and the euro being among the worst performing currencies in recent years.

Money printing will create some inflationary forces that help stabilize the deflationary tendency coming from the slowing global economy. This inflationary impact will get stronger the more the currency depreciates. However, the real danger is that eventually, the economy picks up again and the incentive for the banks to lend money increases again. Then, a lot of excess liquidity in the system will find its way into the real economy. Typically, at such time, the velocity of money is increasing again, resulting in a strong increase of the monetary base. Unless a central bank acts very quickly and withdraws some of that excess liquidity, the consequences can be severe, creating asset bubbles and high levels of inflation, possibly hyperinflation.

The situation today is challenging for a number of reasons, and it’s certainly much more complex than many people think. That’s why I think this is not so much a matter of selecting the superior school of economics, but taking the strong points of each and combining them for a sound economic recovery plan. Unfortunately, the dilemma is that advocates of each school of economics often don’t respect the other’s approach.

The same is true in politics; that’s why we never get solutions. It’s not about change in general; it is about a change in the way we work together and communicate with each other. Republicans and Democrats in the United States, as well as other major political parties in other countries, often fight each other for the sake of fighting. They forget the fact that they all need to work for the benefit of the country and its people.

I don’t consider myself a follower of any school of economics, but I see that each has strong and weak points. There are certainly some principles which are generally applicable, but every economic problem is unique. In order to solve an economic problem, one needs to go beyond the limitations of certain frameworks. Applied to today’s difficult economic situation, it means the Western world needs to understand that it lived beyond its means for too long. Today’s welfare system is not sustainable. Generally, people are asking for too much from the government, and politicians have chronically overpromised for so many decades that the government simply can’t foot the bill anymore.

The solution to today’s economic and political changes is not about Keynesians vs. Austrians or Republicans vs. Democrats; it’s about working together for the best possible result for the country. What we need is more respect, especially respect for different views and opinions and a better sense of cooperation. This is what true leadership is all about, and this is how governments can regain people’s trust. Trust and increased confidence will eventually trigger investments and spending and get the economy going again. True leadership means respect and the ability to listen to other opinions and acknowledge the value of true cooperation.

Daniel Zurbrügg

is the Managing Partner of Alpine Atlantic Global Asset Management, a Swiss-based independent investment management firm. The firm provides clients with independent investment management, asset protection and family office services and is the issuer of the global investment newsletter Echo From The Alps. With a global network of partners, Alpine Atlantic's aim is to provide clients with true "turnkey" solutions for global investing. Prior to setting up Alpine Atlantic, Daniel held various positions with other banks and financial companies. Daniel is a Chartered Financial Analyst and regular guest speaker at international investment conferences.

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  • s c

    Many people can’t understand why it is so morally wrong to do the two things that are the main causes of our current economic woes. First, Americans have been told and they have been ‘educated’ to believe that perpetual spending is good, and saving and re-investing is bad. We’re also expected to believe that ‘capitalism’ (a term coined by socialists) is bad. Free market economics is a better, more realistic term.
    Those who look at free market economics as too unpredictable (or however they want to phrase it) are self-deluded dolts whose education in economics is reliable as second-hand, coffee shop gossip. Second, many Americans refuse to believe that elected “leaders” can do any wrong. We could NOT do any worse if we 1) put our schizoid government on a functional, yearly BUDGET and made it illegal for central bankers to exist in America (‘shoot on sight’).
    Europe and the rest of the world have their problems. I live in America, and I am damned sick and tired of beng expected to live under the thumbs of inferior, knuckle-dragging, ape-wannabes who can’t boil water without help.
    [Lest I forget, kudos to the man or woman who 'liberated' the 'One's' teleprompter-bearing vehicle recently. Thinking and acting out-of-the-box is so refreshing]

    • Old Henry

      “[Lest I forget, kudos to the man or woman who 'liberated' the 'One's' teleprompter-bearing vehicle recently. Thinking and acting out-of-the-box is so refreshing]”

      What is that all about?

    • alex

      When politicians put themselves above the rest, you have problems. It doesn’t matter which country you want to point to.

      • DaveH

        And that is the rule, not the exception. Unfortunately.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      SC, you speak of free market economies but where are these. Europe, Asia, Middle East,etc. all have government controlled and manipulated economies. We don’t have businessmen in the U S transacting business with businessmen in other countries without being told what to sell, how much to sell and when to sell.

      • s c

        Nadzieja, free market economies are hard to find because pimped-out, prostituted nonleaders around the world hate freedom and economies that keep people FREE. What we see now is what’s left of free market economies.
        Free market economies work, but they work ONLY when they’re not manipulated by politicians, useful idiots and other assorted mental defectives.

      • ernest

        this free-market thing is a one-way-street ( we are consumers )after NAFTA and all the other free-trade deals made with China, India, mexico and now the new ones MOST OF THE MANUFACURING JOBS LEFT so relax and be a CONSUMER we don’t make anything anymore and most of the western world is the same.

        • Old Henry

          Remember that “giant sucking sound” that the little general with the bad hair cut brought up during the ’92 campaign? And then dick-for-brains was elected and there was more than one giant sucking sound…

        • http://?? Joe H.

          ernest,
          Yeah right!! WE don’t even make money!! kinda puts a binder on that consumer idea, don’t it??

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Failure to regulate financial institution’s was one of the main causes the second is failure to prosecute It’s that simple

    • 2centsworth

      A major problem with the American economy is that people have been taught pseudo-science and pseudo-economics because the Fed Reserve and banking system doesn’t want the economy to work for everyone…and it can. True economic principles have been kept from the public, and no one knows how to run the economy to make it work. The only person who could even come close to fixing the economy for everyone would be a man who learned the only true economic principles and was trained by 6 of the top economists of Europe and America, and one of them was endorsed by Albert Einstein to be teaching the only true economics in the world. This was information not allowed in any public school or institution of higher learning including Harvard and Yale. Just send your email address to: fastboomamericaneconomy@gmail.com and ask for letter on HOW WE CAN FAST BOOM AMERICAN ECONOMY WITH ALBERT EINSTEIN ENDORSED FREE ENTERPRISE This is the answer, and this is THE MAN!!!

    • http://m_annette_taylor@yuahoo.com Scott

      Bottom Line, America is in trouble! I think we need to (at least) put any Federal regulations (that are hindering business growth) on a eight year hold.

      I also think we need to limit all entitlement programs- Medicade, Medicare, SSI Disability and VA health insurance coverage to emergency care only for the next eight years.

      We need to bring our troops home from Afghanistan immediately. We need to bring our advisors home from Africa immediately.

      We need to settle ALL federal pensions with US Treasury bonds- immediately. We must stop importing oil from any nation that is not friendly to the United States-as soon as possible.

      This of course means we need to open up off-shore drilling again and develope our Alaskan potential and also look to Canada to supply as much oil as possible until we can develope our own oil resources.

      We need to institute a policy that any nation that wants to sell us goods buy an equivalent dollar value of products produced in this country.

      In order to curtail runaway inflation, I would initiate a retail price freeze (based on 2008) on goods sold in this country.I would also start rationing fuel consumption like they did in the Nixon years.

      I would essentially place this country on a federal pay as you go basis. I would also freeze all interest payments on our national debt for a period of eight years- though they could accumulate that interest-based on the interest rates of 2008rt

      Now, I am not a professional economist but I do not know of one American that wouldn’t rather have these or other restrictions than a violent revolution and it seems to me that that is where we are headed.

      I am sure there are other options to reduce our debt but this would be a good start.

      Scottie

  • FreedomFighter

    “The solution to today’s economic and political changes is not about Keynesians vs. Austrians or Republicans vs. Democrats; it’s about working together for the best possible result for the country.”

    Constitutional or Marxism: Best result is Constitutional, capitolist society. Totalitarian Marxism has no place in Freedom based country.

    We have seen both communism and socialism fail world wide, in fail I mean: FAILED on its promises, FAILED for its people, only the leadership enjoyed a good lifestyle.

    In the American experiment more people have more, make more, do more, and the quaility of life for all is vastly superior to all other forms of goverment.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • Morduin00

    Nice article Daniel. I couldn’t tell you the difference between Keynesian and Austrian models of economics nor, quite frankly, do I care. Seems like the Morduin00 model is much simpler: Don’t spend more than you take in, don’t rob from those who work for it and give to those who WONT work for it, cut 5% from all departments across the board. If they want to maintain their current staffing levels, then the govt employees can take a 5% pay cut.

  • terry

    Working for the good of the people is a novel idea in politics, today. It will not get you the vote. Welfare and ilegal immigrants, unnecessary wars and bad legislation geared, particularly, toward the rich and the poor has placed the middle class in the position of getting nothing for their money. We just work everyday to give it to those who do not work or work illegally for cash, pay no taxes and keep having more childen so we can pay them more. I am over it. Most Americans are. No one is listening, and, demonstrations will becomre more widespread. Perhaps the answer is for all of us who work to stop and file for all of those free benefits. After all, I cannot afford the groceries I see immigrants buying with my money!!

    • http://msn.com Mary Fields

      Terry
      Well said. I completely agree. Stop illegal immigrants.

  • Ray Kennedy

    Please let me stay away from Alpine Atlantic Global Asset Management. This guy scares me. How do you compromise with progressive Marxists? It is like saying smile when you getting raped.

    • Maggiemoo

      That was my feeling as well, Ray. I am sick of “Can’t we all just get along?” NO!!! We cannot all get along. Marxism, Socialism, and Communism are all evil and the followers of them have no intention of compromising their principles anymore than I will compromise my Christian principles.

      • Dagney

        Exactly right. We are in the midst of a fight between good and evil. Many moral people do not understand how evil hides and projects itself onto the good. There is no compromise. People must wake up and start making a stand for good.

    • bob wire

      Hmm? “How do you compromise with progressive Marxists”

      are you suggesting someone is trying?

      • Capitalist at Birth

        There can be no compromise with stupidity, of which you are a fine example. I have studied economics all of my life. I have forgotten none of the knowledge I have obtained. Compromise with someone who wants to take your freedom? I will not, evidently you will.

        • bob wire

          Ouch! I’m wounded, I’ve been shot! If I knew half of what you thought you knew, I think I’d find something more rewarding for my time spent CB.

          At times, You tend to say outlandish things while enjoy your ambiguity and I’m here to call you out when you do. Now you might think I’m stupid but I play with you like a mouse. ☺

          Daniel Zurbrügg has written a nice article here and I enjoyed reading it until until you walked in.

          He speaks of almost endless discussion between two camps that, in the end, only hurt the American people.

          He brings forward the two opposing economic views and their methodology.

          “That’s why I think this is not so much a matter of selecting the superior school of economics, but taking the strong points of each and combining them for a sound economic recovery plan. Unfortunately, the dilemma is that advocates of each school of economics often don’t respect the other’s approach.”

          then a dandy fine closing summary,

          “The solution to today’s economic and political changes is not about Keynesian vs. Austrian or Republican vs. Democrat; it’s about working together for the best possible result for the country. What we need is more respect, especially respect for different views and opinions and a better sense of cooperation. This is what true leadership is all about, and this is how governments can regain people’s trust. Trust and increased confidence will eventually trigger investments and spending and get the economy going again.”

          You need to check you attitude at the door Capitalist at Birth, give that big head of your a rest.

          • DaveH

            What’s next, Bob, all Uppercase and Bolded?

          • Capitalist at Birth

            I do not trust anyone who follows the path of fools, especially people such as yourself. I will not follow a path to serfdom, evidently you think I should. Sorry, but I will fight to the death, rather than become your or anyone’s slave. If that is your choice, so be it. If you don’t like my attitude, I suggest that you don’t read my posts. I usually ignore yours, because of your ignorance.

    • ChristyK

      Keynsian economics is legal plunder. You don’t negotiate with thieves. True free-market economics would raise the standard of everyone. Some may get fabulously rich, but everyone willing to work does better. Keynesian (and it’s brother socialism) bring down everyone’s standard of living. It always fails, but for due to stupidity (lack of knowledge of economics & history)things always seem to lead back in that direction.

  • chipshot

    What we need to do is get the politicians out of the mix. Return to the gold standard, eliminate the fed, and return to a Constitutional Government like our founding fathers envisioned. It is really pretty simple until the politicians get involved.

    • DaveH

      It’s simple until you realize that the vast majority of the population has been severely brainwashed. How do you reverse 20 years (average) of Propaganda? It isn’t easy.
      Government schools have been teaching us for well over a hundred years that our enslavers are our liberators.
      Read the series of books by Thomas DiLorenzo to get a wake up call as to just how severely we have all been deluded by Government and their Mass Media cohorts. Although an expert economist, Thomas writes in an easily readable style that anybody can follow:
      http://mises.org/store/DiLorenzo-Collection-P546.aspx

      Warning! Having your eyes opened too quickly could be hazardous to your mental health. Ignorance is bliss, you know.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Socialism(altruism) is so ingrained in the fabric of America that it will not be undone.

      • ValDM

        N,
        Socialism is TAKING away from someone to benefit someone else. Altruism is GIVING to someone to give them a hand up.
        Socialism=Taking a handout
        Altruism=GIVING a handup
        Not the same thing, nor will it ever be.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Try again. You may define altruism as you wish but doing so will not make it what it isn’t. It is still Socialism.

          • ChristyK

            Altruism is willingly giving what belongs to yourself, to another out of the generousity of your heart. Socialism is the government taking from one individual, by force, and giving to another individual that didn’t work for it. Altruism is moral. Socialism is immoral.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Nadzieja,
            Altruism I don’t mind one iota. If I choose to give, then it is my business and I do so freely. Socialism, I will fight to my dieing day, as I don’t appreciate ANYONE stealing from me to give it to others that may or may not WORK!!!

        • talkinbout

          From Webster dictionary – Socialism = ownership of exploitable capital and means of production by the government.

          When you say that the government takes money from working people to give to people who don’t work are you refering to our taxes going to pay for welfare or is there more to it than that?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            talkinbout,
            You simplify way too much! there are people out there that CAN’T work and need help. They are outnumbered by ones that could work and CHOOSE not to work. VERY BIG DIFFERENCE!!

          • talkinbout

            Re: Joe H, There are 24 million people looking for full time work in this country who have been pounding the pavement, the internet and whatever, in many cases for many months, who are fully qualified and have much experience for good paying jobs and are doing everything they can, who can’t find full time work. We have people with college degrees working at McDonalds and anything they can find for even minimum wage. Many of them have run out their unemployment and lost their homes. What would you do if you were in that postion and how would you like it if others said that it’s because you’re a bum and just want to live off of other people’s money? Maybe you’d get to the point where you were so frustrated and pissed off that you would go to one of the Occupy sites.

            There’s a reason people can’t find work and it’s not their fault. The jobs simply are not there to be had. The huge majority of them have worked hard, paid their taxes, played by the rules and did everything they were told to get ahead. They did everything right but the game is stacked against them. That’s why people are prtesting in the streets.

            By the way, I see the Republicans just killed another 400,000 jobs for first responders and teachers because it would have been paid for by adding a 0.05% tax on millionairs starting with their second million dollars. In other words their first million would not be affected and they would be taxed 500 dollars out of their next million. Come on Joe H, if you were making over two million a year would you tell me that you couldn’t afford 500 dollars to help this country. Republicans are saying they voted against it because it’s only a temporary fix. Well unemployment should be temporary too. Tell the store owner who is being held up with a gun to his head that it’s only tempoary. Tell the woman being raped it’s only temporary. tell the the person who’s house burned down because what’s left of the fire department was already fighting another fire that it’s only temporary. Tell the kids who are crammed into classrooms with 40 or 50 other kids that it’s only temporary. Tell the teacher that’s losing their house because they got laid off that it only temporary.

            When you get done doing that you can tell me about all the jobs bills that Republicans are pushing besides just doing more of same things the last three Republican Presidents did that got us into this mess.
            As a matter of fact Republicans have killed hundreds of thousands of jobs, and in the middle of a recession with their cuts, not created them

            And Joe, you didn’t answer my question. I’m trying to find out what people mean when they say the government is taking their money and giving it to people who refuse to work. The only thing I can think of is that they are refering to a portion of their taxes going to welfare. I simply want to know if there is more to it than that. Are there other ways for that to be happening?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Talkinbout,
            yes, and there are second and third generation welfare FRAUDS out there that could dig ditches, sweep floors, take orders at Micky D’s or a whole number of other things but theyCHOOSE to collect welfare instead. This has gone on since long before this recession we are in now. I used to work with a kid at a stamping plant that wouldn’t work an hour of overtime and I couldn’t figure it out. Then I heard him tell one of the guys that if he worked an hour of overtime, he would lose his food stamps!! There was plenty of overtime to work, too!!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            talkinbout,
            On those violent crimes you mention?? check out the FBI site and you will see that according to THEIR stats that violent crime, including RAPE, MURDER, AND ARMED ROBBERY ARE DOWN FOR THE FOURTH STRAIGHT YEAR! Got it?? This is with a record number of gun owners. Perhaps THAT is the reason??

  • Joe

    The Gov. is not the answer. Let the free market work and keep the Gov. limited in their powers. They are into every aspect of our lives and the lives of every business with regulation after regulation.
    Spending on things you can not afford does not work on a personal level,business level or Gov. level as we are now seeing. As far as working together its not going to happen our leaders are more interested in staying in power than making the hard choices. Lets put an end to the nanny state as you can see what it has done to Greece and several other countries. Lets vote out this group of egg heads and bring in the leaders who believe in limited Gov. that would be a start.

    • DaveH

      As Judge Napolitano says, Government should exist solely to protect the people from the Force and Fraud of others. Instead our current Government is doing what Governments usually do — They have become the Forcers and the Defrauders.

    • Jeryl

      Well said.

  • Jack

    The problem nations need to default and exit the euro which hinders their ability to export. Let the French and the Germans compete on an equal basis as the problem nations are able to ramp up exports with their devalued currencies. The credit ratings will eventually force the problem nations to be soverign once more.

    • bob wire

      I tend to agree, ~ I know it’s late in the game to bring it up but at some point people must enjoy the harvest of their folly.

      This planting of cedar trees and weeds and expecting to harvest corn and potatoes simple does not work very well. As they will continue to be unwise in their planting if outside sources continue supplying the corn and taters in an attempt to save them from their planting failures.

  • Monte

    For anyone interested in learning something about economist John Maynard Keynes, here is link to a biography printed in 1971. It is very shocking to say the least. It is the only copy I could find on the web. The article begins on page 5, the first four pages being an advertisement that has nothing whatsoever to do with the article itself. The article is a very important read for comperhending what is at work through economics.
    http://www.thesouthernpartisan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/07.1-ARCHIVEDobbsKeynes-21p.pdf

    • s c

      Monte, you didn’t say it, so I will Keynes was SCUM. Followers of that paranoid schizophrenic owe it to themselves to make his books disappear. People who want to get close to the truth need to read all they can about the worthless SOB.
      Start with the Ludwig von Mises Institute (Auburn, AL). Get a catalog, or call them at 800 636 4737.

      • Monte

        I think many don’t have any idea just how low and depraved he was. I thought others might be interested in what created those forces set against us today. The article is defiantly an eye opener!

        • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

          Monte, Thanks, I appreciated the link. I have always stayed away from people with unnatural sexual perversions such as homosexuality, lesbianism, etc but do like to read. I may be a bit old fashioned at 56, but the way Bertrand Russell was charged actually fit her immoral being to a tee and I wish calling an orange a orange could be done today, I was laughing out loud and am still laughing and will reprint here. Again thanks. “She is lecherous, libidinous, lustful, venerous, erotomania, aphrodisiac, irreverent, narrow-minded, untruthful and bereft of moral fiber”. When men were men and woman were woman, what a great age

    • Jay

      How can we understand the present, if we do not understand it’s origin? Thanks for the link Monte!

  • clarence swinney

    Where are the ministers?
    Jesus Christ preached against Inequality and greedy Rich.
    $$$$$$$$$$$$ GOT THEIR TONGUE?

    10% oqn 70% Net Wealth—-80% own 15%
    10% own 70% financial Wealth—-80% own 7%
    10% get 50% individual income—-7,000,000 get 13%
    old (87 yesterday)uglymeanhonest

    • Jeryl

      Christ clearly taught against greed. The Bible also clearly teaches that those who are blessed with riches should give to the poor. That is not to say they should simply walk around giving away money, but that they should use a good portion of their wealth to relieve the suffering of the poor. We see so little of that today. I thank God that I attend a church where a signficant portion of the church income is deliberately given to ministries to help the poor and needy.

    • TheRealBob

      The Bible also teaches that sloth and living wickedly are wrong or did you forget that? Sloth and depraved lifestyles are the main reasons for poverty in Western culture today. And, by the way, greed is a universal trait of humanity or there wouldn’t be a lottery. The poor are just as greedy as the rich; they are just too stupid, lazy, and stoned to feed their greed.

      • Jeryl

        No, I didn’t forget that. I am a strong Constitutional conservative. On the other hand, you would be dumb to think that all who are poor are slothful and lazy. I work with a lot of people who want nothing more than to better themselves and, when given a hand up rather than a hand out will do so. Perhaps you need to check your heart. Read everything in the Bible, not just the parts with which you agree.

        • TheRealBob

          Maybe you should do the same. By the way, ignoring and lying about the truth means that the problem will never be solved.

          • bob wire

            Man who paints with very wide brush, gets paint everywhere and make some people unhappy.

          • Jeryl

            Who’s lying about the truth?

          • Jeryl

            There are many lazy, crass people living on the public dole. But, there are also many hurting, hard-working people out there. It seems to me that you are probably one of those who doesn’t want to admit that so that you don’t have to put a place in your heart for them.

        • DaveH

          Your comments of course don’t provide a comprehensive source of your character, but still I have a hard time seeing you as a Constitutional Conservative, Jeryl, from them.
          The Rich do provide sustenance for the poor by investing their money in Capital Goods and giving those poor a way to earn a living. Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day ….
          Charity is a very personal thing. Those who give should be praised. Those who don’t give should be neither praised nor denigrated.

          • Jay

            Hmm, very wise grasshopper!

          • Jeryl

            What is it you want to know? Before you pass judgment, you should know what someone believes. Am I a liberal because I believe God wants us to share what we have with those less fortunate. I’m not talking about giving public money to them. I’m not talking about giving those on welfare hardearned dollars. I’m not talking about those who are living off the hard work and money of others. I’m talking about the genuinely poor who don’t have anything. I’m talking about the single parent trying to raise a family, while working themselves to the bone. I’m talking about the truly homeless who don’t have public assistance. I have never voted Democrat in my life; I don’t believe in abortion; I am a strong believer in the entire Bill of Rights, particularly the First and Second Amendments. Need I go on. No. I am a Conservative, but I’m also a Christian and I have a heart for those less fortunate. What is your problem?

          • DaveH

            My problem, Jeryl, is that it didn’t sound like you were talking about giving away your own money which you can do anytime. It sounded like you were trying to coerce or shame others to give away their money, which almost always leads to the Government forcibly giving away the money of others. Other peoples’ money is so easy to give away.

      • Karolyn

        How out of touch you are, Bob. Can you provide proof that sloth and depravity are the primary reasons for poverty? I think not! There is a new poverty created by our economic times and the majority of those people are poor through no fault of their own. Have you not seen the crowds of people who show up for a few jobs?

        • Jeryl

          Well said, Karen.

        • DaveH

          No doubt there are people who are truly misfortunate through no fault of their own. But I contend that they are the minority of those on the Government dole. If Government wasn’t so busy buying votes by redistributing the wealth, the money they confiscate would largely be spent much more efficiently, and often invested in capital goods to make the country more productive and thus provide more jobs for all who want to work.
          You don’t have to listen to my words, Karolyn or Jeryl, just look at the results of Big Government throughout the world:
          http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

          Economic Freedom Works. Big Government doesn’t.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DaveH,
            Did you hear that the FBI even shot down Joe Bidens little rape speach down?? Seems according to their records, violent crime which includes rape is down for the FOURTH STRAIGHT YEAR!!! I wonder how much joey likes the taste of shoe leather. Must be alot!!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DaveH,
            forgot to add that that is with gun ownership at an all time high!!!

    • s c

      cs, you missed the boat. All your historical heroes are dead. None of them made life on this planet better. It’s good to look up to others who deserve it, but your heroes were nothing but substitutes for God. If you hurry, you can find a place among the demonstrators on Wall Street. Maybe you can convert some of them.
      But, be advised that you’ll have to get in line behind the likes of Lenin, Hitler and George Soros. I submit that your priorities are no different than those of your icons. Your approach is false. Your goals are anything but lofty. In your world, we’re supposed to be happy in a pig sty. No, thanks. If paradise on this planet is the best you can get, it’s all “yours.” Did you get that way on your own, or was it handed to you on a platter?

    • Errol Devore

      Where did you read in the Bible that Christ said being rich was wrong? It does say that the rich are supposed to help widows and orphans, but it does not say they should ask the government to take their money and squander it.
      Where does it say everybody must be equal (except in Christ). It does say that the master and the slave are equal in Christ, but it did not say they were equal in life.

    • ValDM

      Swinney,
      I don’t recall reading that in my Bible. Whatever translation you’re using, let us know so we don’t use it & be misled. Christ certainly did teach about greed……the 10 Commandments say “Thou shalt not covet”………seems to be a universal problem, not just applied to the “rich”.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        ValDM,
        At least for the giverment!! They sure covet everybodies money!!!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Go study the Bible again. Which Christ are you talking about, the one you made up? Christ never condoned being a Thief (rich or poor)or Envy. If you take something that you didn’t earn, you are still a thief.
      Your envy is showing through.

  • clarence swinney

    70,000,000 get 13% not 7,000,000
    oldie goof

  • bob wire

    While I’m slow to group and label people with a single brush stroke or suggest that there is a single simple solution to complex problem.

    I do believe it is people that are capable of adjusting and adapting fair much better then people that will sit of their hand wait for their god and government to save them. That wait for the wealthy to put them to work.

    The Calvary is always slow in it’s arrival, if they come at all. It would be wise for people remember the siege of the Alamo and Colonel Travis final stand. What you are asking for and what you can expect are miles apart and basically you are own your own and left to dig in fight with everything as your disposal.

    Inventory and deploy your resources carefully. Extreme times calls for extreme measures. But willing to do things that you would not normally do. Be open to options you might not normally consider.

    Everyday, investing time in building a supporting network that you can draw from, whatever they might offer, Information, look for demand, look for supply, look for opportunity.

    It is my belief that we become blind to opportunity during abundance. Once this abundance is gone, the eyes must be recalibrate to see again.

    Understand that a dollar you didn’t earn is a dollar you don’t have. That a dollar saved is a dollar earned.

    It will be the private sector that supplies the glue that holds this old world together and not the wealthy, not government.

    You are “one” but you are “many”. There are times you may think that you are alone, and that’s okay. Maybe it will force you into action. If that happens to a 100 people or a million people, change will come on it’s own.

    Find a “need” and fill it. It does not need to be high tech or complicated ~ there only needs to be an equatable exchange of goods or service for legal tender.

  • TheRealBob

    “Since there is no easy solution for today’s problems” – really? Actually there is an easy solution: let those who have over-spent reap what they have sown. That is a simple, just solution.

    • bob wire

      Right BOB, but even if it means burning down your own house?

      It seems that in some cases we at held hostage while the train robbers have their way. This is what added the complexity to these issues we are attempting to confront.

      When found placed in a compromised position opportunities of extortion are made available.

      We should have never allowed ourselves to be “compromised” to begin with, few would argue. But that doesn’t change the fact that we have and applying an one ideology fails to address extortion well enough to neutralize it.

  • Shane

    Compromise can and does work, sometimes. But only when both sides exhibit some type of inner moral compass, and some common sense. How do you compromise with mental misfits? The immoral? The lazy? The anarchist? The self disillusion? One must have some of the basic building blocks of decency, maturity and morals, to be able to fully listen to others, and at least consider the merits of their concerns. As our world society continues its lemming march, it becomes harder and harder to even discuss in a calm manner, with those with opposing views. When they refuse to consider and contemplate your own views. Then you have such ingnorance, like Clarence Swinney’s completely inaccurate religious position on money. His comments reeks with anger and hate. Which negates any message that Christ himself would be offering on this or any other topic.

    • DaveH

      Compromise is just a manipulative political term designed to move one side or the other closer to their goal. It depends entirely on who gets to make the first proposal. Most people tend to think of Compromise as meeting in the middle. So it sounds so decent and fair. But the middle of what? If one politician says he doesn’t want to spend anything and the other says he wants to spend a lot, then just spending a modest amount is a “compromise”. But then spending grows.
      What the Republicans need to do (if they really want to cut spending, which I doubt) is to start with large spending Cut proposals, and then if the Democrats don’t meet in the middle with reasonable spending cuts, the Republicans can say they aren’t Compromising. But I really don’t think Republicans want to cut their power any more than the Democrats want to cut theirs.

      • bob wire

        You bring forward good point dave, the art of negotiation. It is an art form. It a study course. Much like chess in a way. There is the clock, the opening moves, mid-game and end-game play with only two possible final conclusion.

        But unlike chess, there is a living with the final results. The back end of the deal is where you can get screwed and usually where the profit or gains are found. By the time you get there, it’s too late. “If it sounds just too good to be true,it probably is.”

  • http://www.gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gilly

    I wish to congratulate Daniel Zurbrügg for his words of wisdom in pretty much summarising many of my views about what the true role of government should be is to co-operate for the good of the nation. It is my view that too much governmental quarrelling is directed at unseating a small number of the opposite members to give it a majority in the next term of government. Too many men and women playing the politics of EGO and not working in co-operation for the public good of ALL the nation.

    In my opinion he has misunderstood the Keynesian theory as applied by the USA congress during the GFC in 2008 and he should look at what our Australian Government did to help stabilise confidence, whereas your government pumped too much money into propping up badly managed financial organisations which only served to delay the problem to another year.

    Our Reserve Bank of Australia had room to move interest rates downward quickly because it had increased Official interest rates at the appropriate time during the boom, which your own Federal Reserve let blow out until it was far too late.

    I do believe that it is now unnatural to expect or even encourage an increase in Global Gross Domestic Product of anything over 2% as it is totally unsustainable even at those levels if you exclude China’s figures. Despite all the money printing I doubt that there is any risk of hyperinflation for the next 5 years but currencies will be devalued by any printing of money which is already self evident.

    Western economies including Australia have created their own problems by becoming uncompetitive by giving a higher expectation in standard of living in workers wages as compared the India and China who can still produce a factory built timber home at about 20% of the cost of building one in Australia or USA. This alone will keep our housing options high and our prices low for the foreseeable future and banks would need to consider this when lending during a real recession. Our Australian high dollar is helping to keep inflation lower and lower and whilst your USA dollar is weak there are still plenty of cheaper importable products which will lose your workers their jobs.

    Keynesian policies which would help the USA today would be to forget your anti-welfare ideals and give your poor the money instead of propping up your bad banks. Pump the billions directly into more welfare such as what Obama is trying to do or give your poor $500 vouchers for hospital care or food or direct utility bill payments.GIVE TO THE POOREST & AND TAKE FROM THE RICHEST, as Warren Buffett suggested recently. Your own people deserve help and support to ease their stresses and in so doing most of the benefits will be spent in your economy on essentials and not imports. Your people will appreciate your true Christian generosity. It wont be inflationary..it will keep small businesses in business who in turn use the banking system and the small businesses too will thank you for your innovative policy solutions. Give your own people hope. All for now from Gillysrooms.

    • TheRealBob

      Gilly: You completely misunderstand Christian generosity. Nowhere in the Bible does GOD mandate giving to those who are slothful or wicked. Christ never, never advocated taking money from the rich to give to the lazy and wicked like those who make up the bulk of the poor today in the West. True Christian generosity is practiced towards those who are helpless to help themselves, not lazy slobs who have been taught to beg instead of work.

      • Peter

        Bob, where is that line and who gets to paint it?

    • DaveH

      Oh sure, Gilly, our Government should encourage sloth and discourage economic activity.
      If Government gives away money, it must first take it from somebody else. They can do that directly with taxes, or indirectly by creating new money. The former removes money from productive investment in the private sector (capital goods, etc.) and puts it in the government sector where it is essentially consumed. The latter dilutes the value of peoples’ existing dollar-denominated savings thus reducing their real net worth (hidden tax).
      If Government spending (it’s easy) were the correct solution to economic malaise, there would be no Poor Countries. Any Government Ignoramus can spend money that isn’t his.
      There is only one real solution to our economic problems. That is to get back to respecting peoples’ ownership of property, and get the Government out of the Marketplace. Our founders knew that and they did their best to save us from politicians, but as always people can’t expect others to look out for them, they must look out for themselves.
      As Thomas Jefferson said “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not”.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Are you a Communist? That is exactly what you are suggesting. Do you think it is all well and good to steal from those who have and give it to those that have less? I guess that is okay, as long as it is not your stuff being stolen.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      What a Socialist idiot you are.

  • DaveH

    I consider there to be two main schools of economics — Political Economics, and Real Economics. The Political Economists exist mainly to pull the wool over the eyes of the public so that the Leaders and their Cronies can get away with fleecing the people. The Real Economists can explain what really happens to all parties in the economy when there is monetary manipulation.
    The first Group is represented by Keynesian Economics and the latter by Austrian Economics. If you want to learn what the Government and their pals are really doing to us, study at the mises.org site.
    It isn’t pretty.

    • DaveH

      This just happened to be the lead article on mises.org today:
      http://mises.org/daily/5589/Keynes-and-the-Ruling-Class

      • bob wire

        how will these two different economist describe and present themselves davey?

        As a veil is always used to covers transgressions and true intentions. Must we look for whom they speak for and who’s paying their freight, for that too can be disguised.

        How can the “assuming” be removed?

        • DaveH

          Well, Bobby, how about reading them both, and deciding for yourself which makes sense, and which is just designed to delude you?

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Dave H., How many people do you think will visit this site and be able to comprehend? My guess, is not very many, unfortunately. I have books by von Mises and Hayek (not to mention many other like minded economists), that I have offered to my friends and neighbors to no avail. Unfortunately, too many people choose ignorance over knowledge.

        • DaveH

          I think people will be more inclined to read them, Capitalist, if their pride isn’t involved. On a personal level they’re more inclined to not give you the satisfaction of proving to them that you’re correct.
          But, who knows, they may be reading those things in private, and just avoid telling you for their pride’s sake.
          With all the e-readers available now, it’s easier than ever before to download a PDF or other such book from the Internet and read it at our leisure. I think, unless the Government somehow censors all that, people are going to become better educated in economic and political matters than ever before in our History.

          • Capitalist at Birth

            Beware, that may soon come to pass.

    • s c

      DaveH, it amazes me how easy it is to make someone seem like a world-class intellect, when if the truth was known, both Marx and Keynes would fare no better than images found on toilet paper and flushed where they belong.
      Marx and Keynes are perhaps two of the best examples of misguided, self-loving pukes who were groomed for public consumption. I’d like to know who was responsible for it, but I do think it’s possible to guess and come close. At the heart of the matter is the mindset that demands that we always “CHOOSE” between THIS evil or THAT evil.
      People who rely on emotions and little reasoning chose Keynes and communism. Those tend to rely on common sense and some degree of real-life experience chose free market economics.
      While I would not dare to claim that von Mises is a close second to Christ, at least he used reason and common sense. Keynes was self-centered, he thought every idea he ever had was genius, and he made up his concepts like a drug addict in a drug warehouse. The world would have been better if someone had put a bullet through his schizophrenic head.
      Would you care to guess how many demonstrators know squat about Keynes or von Mises? And they dare to tell America that they CARE. Soros sure can pick ‘em.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        I always wonder why supposed intellectuals would follow Kant,Compte, Keynes, Marx, etc.,etc..

        • DaveH

          It’s the path of least resistance. It’s much more attractive to believe in sweet-sounding fairy tales than to accept reality.

  • Raggs

    This is a PRIME example of what happens when any government gets involved in the private sector… The government is the largest waste, biggest threat and it is a grossly over barring entity via their over reaching powers of regulations which constrict the free market…. The best evidence of this is oblama-care…

  • Shane

    Continued giving of resources to those that could (not withstanding the last three years)do for themself. Creates dependency and weakness. Compassion and aid to the needy is a part of any decent human being or society. But to create dependency in other human beings, so as to make the giver feel good and superior, is immoral. Most governmental giving is not for the good of the dependent, but for the good of the giver. Votes, power and self lauding. In many cases, we are now in the fifth generation of governmental giving to nuclear families. Families that have lost their self esteem, empowerment and strength, for true bread crumbs. Most that complain the most about the lack of governmental giving, give the least in personal giving. I’m sure a few will comment, and sing their prises about how much they give to others, and their liberal credials. But I don’t make decisions on anecdotal statements or exceptions. Anything I say is anecdotal also, unless backed with confirmed statistical evidence. But I do suggest that those with an honest moral backbone, observe the world around them. My own anecdotal evidence, as one that has been the fund raising chairman for ten out of the last eleven years, is that conservatives overwhelming give more, and those liberal in belief receive more. But do your own research. Be honest. Only you will actually know. But gee, it is pretty demeaning to lie to oneself.

    • DaveH

      Very good, Shane.

    • bob wire

      “My own anecdotal evidence, as one that has been the fund raising chairman for ten out of the last eleven years, is that conservatives overwhelming give more, and those liberal in belief receive more. But do your own research. Be honest. Only you will actually know. But gee, it is pretty demeaning to lie to oneself.”

      You are so right Shane, There is little substitute for honesty.

      It’s is most difficult to see and evaluate anything of grand size from a single viewpoint regardless of your vantage point. I fought a war and knew very little about it. I only knew what was before me and so it is with giving.

  • home boy

    our economic system has past the point of no return. too much debt has been demise of our system. so whats the solution. not government. well a great tribulation is coming worse than all the wars combind so the bible teaches . do you have your faith in the right place? we are too stupid to govern ourselves . only GOD can solve our problems. next up is the shutting down and destruction of religion. stay tuned boys and girls. you don’t have the answers.

  • Iris

    A point overlooked seems to be the fact that Asian and Hispanic countries are not experiencing the same problems. And why should they? They have been sending their problems to Europe and America for decades now. WE get to support their poor, indigent and backward extras. Their economic tactics are no better than ours EXCEPT FOR THAT.

    • DaveH

      That’s unfair, Iris. If we are supporting their poor, it’s only because we have foolishly allowed our Leaders to put us in that position.
      In the case of Mexico, jobs are scarce there because they have the same kind of stifling bureaucratic regulatory control that our Liberals want us to have. We should be proud, that we still do have an economy that induces people to risk their lives and limbs to participate in. But we need to make it better by dramatically reducing the size of our resource-sucking Governments.

  • simian pete

    It (the article) sounds “nice”. I have a question …

    “What’s in it for me ?”

    Because every time I hear people in business/government talk about “cooperation” for the good of everybody (“country” in this article) I end up working harder and earning much less …

    I can only agree with the author if and only if I’ll make more money with less effort ….

    • s c

      sp, you must be one contradictory, help-self, fight-self character. You almost made sense – until your last sentence. Do you go through life feeling torn this way or that on a daily basis?
      I know everyone has their own problems, but you have a most peculiar way of expressing that continual frustration. I’m tempted to say that you need decaf, but I’ll go with the idea that you need stronger coffee and some re-education.
      Keep at it, guy. It will get easier.

      • simian pete

        Thanks for your concern, SC …HA HA HA !!!

  • Felix

    Capitalism and communism are the two vicious extremes of a country’s economy. Neither one of these practices work. In reality, at the end of the economic cycle, there is not much difference between the two; both , using different means, allow a small percentage of people to accumulate and control most of the capital at the expense of the rest of the citizens. In the capitalist system, people may feel free, but in fact it is a false feeling. Somebody said that “nobody is more slaved than the one who falsely believe is free”. The economic system practiced in this country during the 20th century specifically in the 50s, 60s and 70s, is perhaps the fair model, because it allowed the middle class to grow and enjoy the product of their work. Now, using regulations as an excuse, a few people control most of the capital, just like in a marxist system, choose not to invested or create jobs.

    • s c

      Wow, f. If I felt that way, I’d be deep in a bottle of grain alcohol or snorting my way to la la land. Few things in life help make living simple.
      If you’re a reader, read von Mises’ Socialism. It’s not an easy read, but it will tell you what you need to know about free market economics and put a much-needed, brilliant light on communism and its camp-followers.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Felix, How many books have you read on the subject of Free Markets? Probably none, based on your ridiculous remarks.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Capitalism works and it is not an extreme.We have mixture of Capitalism and Socialism and Socialists do use Capitalism to gain their fortunes and power.Kindly do some studying.

  • Capitalist at Birth

    Mr. Zurbrugg, Could you please enlighten me as to what the good points are in Kenseyian Economic principles? I have seen the results of these ideas, and they have never worked. What is wrong with the Austrian theory? I have seen nothing. You are obviously a European Socialist. Why should anyone listen to what you espouse?

  • Angel Wannabe

    Capitalism works fine when left the h*ll alone!__People cringe when they hear “I’m from the Government and I’m here to help R. Reagan”
    We all know what happens when GUV gets a hold of anything__the people suffer.I’m a little tired of idiots/thieves hiding behind good intentions__AND THEN Harry Reid has the nerve to say that the Public Sector are the ones who lost jobs, not the private sector???__this guy is DELUSIONAL!
    Reagan warned us way back in 61 that Socialism would be coming in the guise of Government Health care, it did, Obama care. Its just been getting worse by the day.
    The Crony Capitalists such as GE are born when dollar signs and favors are waved in front they’re face by the Progressive Elites, in exchange for funding there progressive programs & nominees in the political arena. Hence a Monopoly is created like Monsanto_ and the more they show they’re willingness to please their elite executives, the higher up the ladder they climb. MONEY AND CONTROL. But its never enough. More Tax more regulation, til’ we have nothing!

  • Alex

    People who are against the Environmental Protection Agency put acquisition ahead of people.

    • s c

      A, the EPA and the FDA have much in common. Both are tools of criminal polticians, and both have the same basic requirement for getting a job. That is, your rump’s worth in terms of dollars determines your ‘suitability.’
      That must be some cave you’ve been living in for the last 20 years or so, A. Did you hang upside down, or did you actually sleep on the cave’s floor? It must be quite a change seeing the sun come up in the east and then going down in the west. It’s SO much better than living in a cave.

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      Alex, I have dealt with the EPA for many years and I will say that they resemble Hitler’s brown shirts in so many ways it is not funny. Please wake up.
      When they can come into your business without warning, intimidate and bully your employees and then fine you with no true recourse except for maybe a reduction in the fine, that is about as UnAmerican as you can get. These folks can at any moment pass new restrictions on American bussinesses that cost millions, new updated boiler rules that takes two peopl a week to get through.
      No Sir, I am telling you as a fact the EPA is not trained in the American Way. They throw so much garbage at every industry, some of which makes no sense such as one of the recent 2000 last month of mandating that the ash from boilers be declared as “Haz Waste” for shipment to disposal sites. When the EPA declares something a “Haz Waste”, the resulting expenses shoots up a corresponding 100% for transportation to disposal and disposal cost. Remember, a business owns any waste from cradle to grave and even beyond. What is the “boiler ash going to do enroute, blow up, burn? No, it is totally harmless and the House of Reps stuck it to the EPA because of how ridiculous the mandate was.
      I am very happy the House of Reps is sticking it to the EPA at every opportunity, I wish thy would do a lot more, if any govt agency has a personal agenda of beating down America besides the Justice Dept, it is the despicable EPA,they havepurposely tried to destroy Anerican competiveness, and have for years, and put USA businesses in a postion where they cannot do anything worthwhile on a comparison with internaional businesses. And it is not about if the EPA didn’t write and mandate thousands of new restrictions each year that American business would just dump the waste in the nearest creek. What a crock!! Allow American business to compete, Be For The Real Change that will not come from the White House

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        Try a little facts,enjoy

        Do Regulations Really Kill Jobs Overall? Not So Much

        http://www.propublica.org/blog/item/whats-the-evidence-that-regulations-kill-jobs/

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Oakley,
        What ever happened to the rule of law that allows a “grandfathering”?
        This is the idea that they can’t let you build today under legal codes of today, then tomorrow change the codes and say you don’t comply. The dam EPA seems to be able to bypass that at will!!! Like your boiler. Say you installed it two years ago and it was 100% BY THE CODES, now the codes change and the life span of said boiler isn’t even nearly met. The EPA still says you have to replace it!!!

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    sc and Oakley mann you did not watch bob’s link to the YouTube Koch Brothers pollution in Louisiana or if you did watch it you failed to understand it. Maybe it was because the people being affected were not white you just don’t care about them “Greed Before People”

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      I think you misrepresent yourself and no nothing about what I said. I hate the race card so much that people like you throw out like a used rubber I would prefer we all be green. I personally do not give a cheucks ass what color a person is, and you aren’t the only one who went to Nam. Now that is out of the way, I suggest you do some reserach into what you are talking about because you obviously only want to gloat and make all businss look like evildoers who would readily kill every American with your pitter patter bs. Is Kock representitve of all American business, or 1/2 of American business, 1/3 of American business, or in actuality .009% of American business? One bad apple does not mean cut the tree down

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        Whats the matter afraid to watch the video as for the race card being played. Denial is not a wonderful thing and I ask a simple Question and only that

        • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

          Try to give yourself some respect with the title by not showing your ignorance. I don’t deem it any sort of my responsibility to tell you what I do, sport

          • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

            Try to give yourself some respect with the title by not showing your ignorance. I don’t deem it any sort of my responsibility to tell you what I do, sport

            Wrong again I earned the title and the only ignorance is the failure to look into all possibilities.

            Bye for now

          • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

            You are a disgrace, run boy, run fast

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    If you open the link’s you will see the report was drafted 11/3/2000 and the email was sent in 2008
    The Republican/Conservative ( C Rove, D Chaney etc,etc)can into office on 1/20/2001 and were still in charge in 2008 and the rest is history
    I’m sure you all will go into your normal rants about blaming Bush.
    Only giving you the facts nothing but the facts

    Email Warned That Bank Up For Bailout Was ‘Disastrous’

    http://www.propublica.org/article/email-warned-that-bank-up-for-bailout-was-disastrous/

    What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/10/20/141510617/what-if-we-paid-off-the-debt-the-secret-government-report?sc=emaf

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      Dear lad, you are far behind the times and have missed much and want to see only your vague views. You went to Nam, hip, hip, hooray, do you think that gives you or me a free card to show our ignorance? The fact you went to Nam is all the respect you’ll get from me, don’t expect me to continue to be as gracious as I’ve been toward your ignorance because of your service. You are now retired and feel useless, people don’t pay you enough respect Don’t keep provoking me with your old news and garbage because you, a dumb lad, are angry at American business for unknown reasons all your very own, and if you want to settle this the old way, as we used to say behind the wall, you let me know when and where. And I can damn well tell you Koch is not the drop of water that ran the bucket over to give the EPA a free ride destroying American business. I ask you to leave this nonsense alone or meet me

  • FreedomFighter

    Another way to look at Debt Ceiling.

    Let’s say you come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in your home, and you have sh** up to your ceilings.

    Do you?
    A) Raise the ceilings, or
    B) Pump out the sh**?

    Your choice…….In 2012.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    “You are a disgrace, run boy, run fast”

    I’m a disgrace to what ?
    The military I think not I did not retire as a Senior NCO with a chest full of bobbles due to my lack of duty
    I’m a disgrace because I did not care for my children wrong again
    So the only thing I can thing of you think I’m a disgrace to is the human race which is totally wrong.
    So 3 out of 3 means your are out( base ball analogy).
    As for your last statement as about my ignorance and feel useless maybe that’s what you see in the mirror.
    Were I come from we took you behind the barn.
    As for the brothers Koch I would be willing to give you odds that you have not watched the video.
    Enjoy your life this is it no more when your time comes

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      Homie, Good for you if you are as you say you are. I myself don’t have a chestful of medals, I have enough. I’m glad you’re a family man in addition to your service, there are not enough family men anymore. And I am laughing at my idiocy, I could almost claim entrapment the way you jumped from our original correspondence and caused me to bite on an entirely different matter in anger, but that is my own fault and I claim responsibility for my stupid actions and words just as you cannot. I stand by my statement that you are one incredibly, overwhemingly ignorant and stupid man who is narrow minded almost to being totally blind and that you will never see the light of a real cause because you want to whine about one thing and that is all that can get through your thick skull, homie. And

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        darn, hit the wrong button before I finished. a barn, wood shed, who gives a rats ass? I surely don’t. And you are so stupid to make a statement about Koch still, are you absolutely insane besides so powerfully dumb?Please kindly don’t continue making you and me look so stupid with your narrow vision and qualities because I am through, I have seen some of your comments before, I remember responding to one stating then that it is a wonder your conscience let you serve with the way you felt about our Country as in your posts, and you haven’t changed, still dumb as a box of rocks. And your set ways on one company is like a witch hunt for all companies, they do not represent even 1% of American business, homie. And I am through making what looks like a war hero from your account continue to look stupid, in the future you will do that well enough on your own.

  • http://www.gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gilly

    Daniel and the Capitalist…i understand what your saying totally, except we are dealing with the economy the way it is now, not the Ethiopia we all want it to be. Your country seems to be going through the same process I was politically involved in during the 1970′s in Australia when Milton Friedman and Von Hayek were still alive.

    I am a Libertarian by nature and was part of the success of converting both of our two major parties into having more Libertarian policies.Our Labor Party was then made up and still is of mainly ex-union thugs who then had Communist connections but now that mantle has been transferred to the Greens Party, which I call the Pink Greens who currently hold the balance of power in our country to my great disdain and currently promoting gay marriage. But not for long. The Liberal Party is our conservative party …always generally promoted free enterprise, pro business etc but then still had left socialist leanings interventionist ideals without knowing it.

    I was involved in promoting Libertarianism during the 1970′s when it was an unpopular political topic in Australia. It was not taken very well by the Melbourne Tramway unionists and one of our members was shot dead by one of its members when our party member defied union rules by not joining their union. His name was Paul Krutulis, a young 20 year old full of life and conviction wanting to be free of communist run unions which cost him his life. Nowadays you will find both Liberal and some Labor party are members of the Institute of Independent Studies a very popular and influential free enterprise organisation of which I was a member when it was not so fashionable.

    Keynesian economic policies have long been used to tax the nation to pay for an ever growing government sector which rarely contributes to the real wealth of any country…and they certainly continue to fail miserably in all forms of financial regulatory benchmarks in stopping the ENRONS and MADOFFS rip offs, your justice system is in disarray with your jails full of petty criminals doing minor crimes to help out your jail building corporations and keeping your lawyers busy with work on trivial matters.

    Even if your well meaning party groups were to gain the balance of power, you will be unable to reduce the government sector by sacking hundreds of thousands of useless government workers without it affecting your economic system, Imagine 500,000 government workers losing their jobs and not paying their rents or car payments or mortgage payments. How many banks will be affected? How many $billions of private savings will be destroyed?

    Whether we like it or not your government system is already partially communist in nature as it currently takes from the workers and the rich and gives to the middle class government workers in the form of useless jobs pushing paperwork in government offices and annoying and stopping enterprises with all manner of regulations and fines, and more taxes. Your government continues to favour government workers but ignore the poorest in your nation who some of you dare to call all as lazy. Why is your government and other politicians prepared to favour your middle classes but not your people most in need.

    My suggestions in my previous blog was for the taxes to be applied to assist the poorest in your community, the ones your economic masters and your churches have forgotten and refused to assist for years. Give them all some hope of being understood. Yes we have the lazy, those unwilling to work even when they can, we have the single mothers who have several children by different fathers etc but why should the next generations be also kept in poverty. America has been known to be generous to many poorer nations with $billions in aid, yet you wont give your own people some acknowledgement of their circumstances. Some of those suggested $500 Vouchers will be ‘waisted’ on alcohol or on other frivolities instead of food for their families or for utility bills, but all the money will be spent in american businesses and not saved. American businesses will benefit.

    I was brought up a Roman Catholic and went to Irish run Christian Brothers Colleges but am amazed at your country’s religions being so mean spirited towards your own fellow countrymen who will never have surplus money even if they ever get a job. Not all your poor are lazy, they lack confidence and opportunity. You cant expect respect for personal property when so many of your own Christian religions espouse such disdain and hate against your own downtrodden poor. Can I suggest you become more diplomatic towards your poor, give them words of encouragement as you would your own children…give them hope.

    But let me put it another way…your poor are assisting in keeping your inflation lower than if they all had jobs…your economic system will ensure that your poor will continue to be poor and by next year some of you others reading this blog may also be poorer.

    If all your current poor had economically useful jobs… they would suddenly want to buy everything that you enjoy, new tv, new furniture, renting better accommodation, new cars, etc most of these items would need to be imported from China with borrowed funds. Imagine 10 – 40,000,000 more people being able to afford to compete with you for that uptown apartment pushing up rents way above what you could now afford. Imagine all the extra jobs created in China to make 40,000,000 more TV’s, ipods, Nike footwear, timber houses, furniture, washing machines, fridges? The extra jobs in america will only serve to create wealth and jobs for India and China and create hyper inflation in your nation.

    If you leave your religious beliefs and mean spirited natures out of the equation your huge unemployed are actually providing the rest of your workers with a very important economic service which should in my opinion be rewarded in the way I am suggesting.

    My suggestions were for the taxes to be applied to assist the poorest in your community, the ones your economic masters and your churches have forgotten and refused to assist for years. Give them all some hope of being understood. Yes even we in Australia have the lazy, those unwilling to work even when they can, we have the single mothers who have several children by different fathers etc but why should the next generations be also kept in poverty. America has been known to be generous to many poorer nations with $billions in aid, yet you wont give your own people some acknowledgement of their circumstances. Some of those suggested $500 Vouchers will be ‘wasted’ on alcohol or on other frivolities instead of food for their families or for utility bills, but all the money will be spent in american businesses and not saved. American smaller businesses will benefit mostly from more sales of american food and services. The ‘wasted’ spending will also be spent in american hotels and gambling establishments unfortunately but will end up in taxes back to your Uncle Sam. It would be too bureaucratic to try separate these people from the genuinely in need, but ALL of the money will help keep business moving during these difficult times.

    In my opinion, my suggested measures will help save your declining economic nation from total financial collapse putting at risk the savings and assets of all those frugal well managed citizens who are now too greedy to help your poor..help you by them spending those taxes placed on your wealthy, some of which don’t like spending. Let me warn all you greedy and mean spirited people that this economic situation is REAL, and will affect not only your nations wealth but your own. How many of you have savings in banks, superannuation, annuity’s, government bonds? Housing and business loans? Just imagine if your business suddenly lost its revenue? or you lost your job? How would you pay for your living expenses? Will anyone be able to buy your gold bars or will you be concerned of thieves when thousands of hungry people start searching for food? Just start thinking and planning your options now while your income rich politicians continue their silly and dangerous political games. All for now from Gillysrooms. from Australia.

  • http://www.gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gilly

    Extract from Internet found under PAUL KRUTULIS who was murdered in 1977… no mention of who instigated the murder..and just dismissed it and washed their hands of the matter in there article…so very convenient. So why was Paul Krutulis really murdered or who caused his murder may never be known as no one dared investigate the matter further in those days of union thuggery. Paul Kutulis was Australia’s first political killing caused by union thuggery…..These union members where closely associated with the Australian Labor Party then very much aligned with the Communist Party. We were all called extreme right wingers then…and yes very anti Communist.

    A union revival?

    No matter how bleak things seemed around 1978, there were grounds for hope if you knew where to look. The sharp union defeats of the early Fraser years, especially Medibank and the Latrobe Valley strike, had sent industrial militancy into a sharp decline which at the time seemed far-reaching, even irreversible. Yet in reality organised labour’s basic strength remained intact. Amidst high unemployment workers might not be confident about claiming wage rises, but the unions had deep roots and were hard to dislodge from key positions. This was demonstrated in 1977 and 1978 when five individual right wingers tried to break open several closed union shops, typically claiming some issue of conscience. In reality their objective was to weaken the unions. While some saw their efforts as a Liberal conspiracy, Alec Kahn’s assessment was more plausible:

    It is hardly likely that the Liberals would have picked stooges as easily discredited as Krutulis (a member of the nutty, extreme right-wing Workers Party), Latham (hated by his workmates), or Kane (twice saved by his union when sacked for drunkenness). A far more likely explanation is that the atmosphere the Liberals had created … simply encouraged these glory-seekers to come out one by one.

    The first battle was brief. When swimming instructor Kerry Ferguson refused to join the Municipal Employees Union at Holroyd Council in Sydney, 160 MEU members refused to work with her; after a ten day strike the council stood her down until she successfully applied for conscientious objector status. The union then accepted her employment but Ferguson resigned, claiming harassment.

    The next conflict, at Broken Hill, was much more protracted. After Noel Latham reported a subordinate for refusing to clean a bulldozer’s radiator (the man claimed it wasn’t his job) the unions’ Barrier Industrial Council fined him $50 for “dobbing”. Latham declined to pay, so the AMWU refused to renew his membership and council employees refused to work with him. Litigation produced a compromise settlement, but when Latham returned to work in September 1977, 90 council workers walked off the job. In the face of such resistance, no court could reinstate him. When Latham had earlier asked the NSW Industrial Commission whether any “lawful document” legitimised such union power, Justice Cahill replied: “That is a rhetorical question. What I have been pointing out is what happens in Broken Hill.” Claude Forell found Latham had little support from local people, who detested him “as a scab and a stirrer.”

    Latham’s frustrations were shared by several would-be heroes in Victoria. ……In 1977 Paul Krutulis gained an exemption from union membership from the Arbitration Commission as a conscientious objector, only to find that tramway workers at Kew planned to stop work as soon as he appeared. Commissioner Cohen then recommended his dismissal, saying she “had to deal with the reality of the situation.” Krutulis later became president of a group called People Against Communism, before being murdered in September. Thus Krutulis departed the scene to be followed in early 1978 by motor mechanic Jack Kane, who had crossed a picket line at a Melbourne City Council depot. The AMWU forced the Council to sack him before it would end the strike.

  • Eric

    People are different in many ways. It has always been this way. However, our Founding Fathers determined a way to overcome these differnces of thought and opinion and spelled it out fairly clearly in our Constitution. The question is, why don’t we follow it? It worked fine for over 100 years until certain polititions intentionally started tearing it apart. The question is, why? Personal gain. The article above talks about compromise and equality etc. and accepting different wiews. Well, in my opinion, that’s all good and touchy-feely wonderful but we still have a Constitution to follow. Once followed, then let’s have an open minded conversation about carrying out minor details.

  • http://www.gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gilly

    In the 1970′s our political groups bumper stickers read..TAXATION IS THEFT. I recall Milton Friedman saying that Inflation is also taxation without legislation. These are all true and i still accept them to be true, but as Talkingabout rightly says they are many people unemployed and willing to work, but the jobs are just not available in the USA.There are plenty of low paying jobs in China if you wish all your unemployed to migrate to China then they can have jobs in a foreign land ie 24 million and their children better start learning Chinese because people like Capitalist at Birth do not wish to assist you by supporting the Obama solution. A truly Christian society would support Obama Jobs policy by extending his increase in taxes to extend unemployment benefits to help save their financial situations.

    I’d like to also take this opportunity to suggest that if some of you wish to change the views of more of those who have different views as yourselves you should do it with reasoned diplomatic debate …it is less likely that Capitalist at Birth will have any success when he dismisses anyone he does not agree with name calling me a Socialist when my own political credentials are proven in Australian politics.

    I am a Libertarian Free Enterprise Capitalist who understands that I am never going to see a pure Capitalist Free Enterprise Society either in Australia or the USA.

    You are at liberty to oppose the policies or political philosophies which you do not agree with, however change will not happen overnight except by revolt which you do not have the numbers to change. In the meantime inclusive public debate means not trying to shut out other political views by trying too evict discussion which you claim is not Conservative or free enterprise. I think you will find that Australian businesses are more free enterprise than those in the USA today. LA is a recent example.

    Some of you do not want big government and neither did we in 1970′s or now however even if your well meaning party groups were to gain the balance of power, you will be unable to reduce the government sector by sacking hundreds of thousands of useless government workers without it affecting your economic system, Imagine 500,000 government workers losing their jobs and not paying their rents or car payments or mortgage payments. How many banks will be affected? How many $billions of private savings will be destroyed and affect your economic situation further? I suggest you need to live in the real world and support your government leaders who are trying to resolve problems which cannot be resolved by cutting credit creation or printing less dollar bills. Unfortunately the political games by both sides of Congress are predicated on keeping everyone in the dark so as not to create any worse panic. Their is no way out of the western world economic woes … they can only be delayed by the many and yes fraudulent [define fraudulent please] instruments available to your federal reserve, but to cut credit or to stop the money printing presses is only going to render everyone BROKE. Total financial Collapse and unwanted civil commotion. Many free enterprise businesses do not wish the latter to eventuate and you too need to decide the lesser of two evils is to support the Obama administration until the next election, when you will be able to win or lose your arguments at the ballot box. Elections are a somewhat like a football game which was close and the referee decided against you, but you accept the decision like a man until the next game, but you train harder before the next game so you improve your chances of beating the other TEAM. You should debate but not try to poison the other team during their period with their trophies. Your politicians in Congress should co-operate with each other until the next election to keep as many people in useful jobs as possible by keeping as many private free enterprise businesses in business even if you don’t agree with the umpire. In Australia we call those people sore losers.

    If your debating skills are reasoned and convincing you will win the minds and hearts of your fellow voters, however this cannot be easily got by excluding varied ideas for solutions in these blogs. I believe in free enterprise thinking. Think outside the square and maybe better solutions may be created. .

    This topic brings me to another interesting observation many of you bloggers could investigate as to why your government has never considered using modern hard to copy technology to discourage the printing of Counterfeit dollar bills which have long been easy to produce. Why?? We have such technology in Australia.
    from gillysrooms in Australia

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