Republicans Show True Colors With Attacks On Lee’s Efforts To Defund Obamacare

0 Shares
obamacare0702_image

Senator Mike Lee (R.-Utah) is trying to drum up support for an effort to defund Obamacare in the continuing resolution to fund government that will be debated this fall. Unfortunately, cowardly and/or big-government-loving CINO (conservative in name only) Republicans are, as usual, siding with Democrats and corporatists and saying it’s a fool’s errand.

Lee has 11 Senate co-signers: Marco Rubio (Fla.), Ted Cruz (Texas), Jim Risch (Idaho), Rand Paul (Ky.), Jim Inhofe (Okla.), David Vitter (La.), John Thune (S.D.), Jeffrey Chiesa (N.J.), Mike Enzi (Wyo.), Debra Fischer (Neb.) and Chuck Grassley (Iowa). Five others, John Cornyn (Texas), Roger Wicker (Miss.) and Mark Kirk (Ill.), signed the letter but have since reneged. About 60 House members are taking up the fight there.

Almost 60 percent of Americans now oppose Obamacare, according to a recent FOX News poll. Since Obamacare’s passage, Republican politicians have repeatedly indicated their desire to repeal it. Yet when push comes to shove, the majority of the Washington, D.C., Republican elected class slink aside, stab the people in the back and cozy up to big insurance, big pharma and the medical-industrial complex.

Obamacare is costing jobs and creating a part-time world. Worse, it constrains Americans into a deathcare system that denies them choices about how they want their medical issues treated. Even the Internal Revenue Service head and IRS employees — who are charged with regulating who has signed up and penalizing those who haven’t — are trying to opt out.

Once again, the Republican elected class is showing its true colors. Senator Tom Coburn called the strategy “dishonest.” Senator Richard Burr called it “the dumbest idea” he’s ever heard of. Coburn also said such a strategy will cause Republicans to lose the House. What Coburn, Burr and their ilk are ignoring is the fact that conservative Americans are realizing that if Republicans don’t become an opposition party and actually begin to oppose Obama’s egregious and unConstitutional policies, having Republican control of the House and Senate is worthless.

Lee’s plan is simple. Delay Obamacare’s funding and delay the consequences until it can be repealed. You can voice your support of Lee’s efforts by going here.

Bob Livingston

founder of Personal Liberty Digest™, is an ultra-conservative American author and editor of The Bob Livingston Letter™, in circulation since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

Join the Discussion

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

  • whoisthat

    Somebody want to tell me the difference between the parties here? Seems they all have the same agenda and some just bleat periodically to create the impression that they are real people and not just politicians.

    • John

      Try the Tea Party. The Republicowards are the same as the communist. The demoRats have been using the media to brainwash the mass market very intensely for more than 20 years. When the Soviet bloc collapsed the former propagandist needed jobs and were quick hired by the likes of the New York Times and Washington Post. The national television stations hired hundreds of them. So they have applied the techniques to the news reports and systematically brainwashed the easily manipulated. Intelligence has no bearing on how hard or easy it is to brainwash. Simply one’s resistance to suggestion or lack there of.
      There are to few conservatives in the Republican party to make a difference.

      • Native Blood

        Everything is financially controlled by Kazars in the interest of
        subduing christianity and islam. It works very well too! You so-called liberals fight philosophically with NEO-Cons and everyone hates so-called conservatives for being too morally strict and insensitive to those who are economically down trodden. You see, Kazars influence the capital hill gang with money and other favors paid for by corporations who writes off these expenses at tax time and we the people pay for it.
        We are always threatened by Al-Kaida to keep us under control and fearful of our very own government.

        AIPAC keeps the NEOCONS scared they will never go to heaven if they do not support he only known democracy in the middle east and they see to it that scriptures are read to the lemmings reminding them that they are hell bound if you do not support Zion. Trying to talk sense to the conservative base about the true history of who really occupies Zion infuriates them. By keeping christians focused on islam as being their enemies, the zionists will always control our government and how our money is spent. The government is so corrupt. elections will never succeed in our favor unless it has been approved by corporate and elite approval. All this talk about “next election” never happens. The will of the people has been compromised by evil lobbyists and I dare anyone to give a solution that is effective enough to eliminate this sort of corruption. The deck seems stacked against us all.

        • Ringgo1

          You appear delusional. Your anti-Semitism is not helpful.

          • Native Blood

            Perhaps you should do some research before you poo poo on my post. Anti-semitism? That would be slander against jewery…I made no such statement about Jews.
            They are a people of decency those I have mentioned are not but again, before you spout ignoramus charges,
            you should research fact.

    • antiliberal00

      There is no difference. They are two wings of the big government, anti-constitution party.

    • Glen Welch

      Yes, they ARE the same – just different shades of the same color. The Conservative Party of the USA was created because of that fact. You may want to check them out at conservativepartyusa.org. They are really the only truly conservative party in American politics. Hope you’ll help us to grow and replace the CINOs.

  • Bill Kandravi

    Tell that to all the Unions that voted for him now and he would not be Lame but LAMER. The unions got the Obama shaft!

    • yankg

      And the unions deserved the shaft, for being behind the kenyan, now they are backing up. serves them right.

    • Don 2

      The unions finally realizing that they are getting screwed big-time by Obamacare makes me smile. It is especially sweet knowing that most of them are ‘useful idiot’ Democrats. It couldn’t happen to a more deserving group.

  • DaemonWolf69

    Anyone that votes for funding Obamacare gets primaried in 2014. If you’re not for we the people, then you’re against us, and we need to put someone in your place that respects our opinions.

  • Dave

    Once again, the members of the fringe GOP insist on wasting time rather than trying to improve the country. This is why the conservative fringe need to be voted out.

    The GOP never had a real plan for HC except for “don’t get sick and die quickly if you do get sick”

    • red neck

      What kind of lame arse statement is that?…
      Do you really think that anyone other than the democrats want people to die?… you have to remember that it is the democratic plan to have death panels set up for people that they deem to be unproductive and too expensive to take care of !…. I am not sticking up for the GOP because they are simply a waste of space however your comment is nothing but regurgitated propaganda and lies!.. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of idiots like you that have no clue of reality at all except what you see in your twisted fabricated little box you call the world.

      • Dave

        What was the GOP plan before Obamacare?
        (crickets)
        No do you support not being turned down for insurance based on a pre-existing condition (Obamacare did that)
        Do you approve of insuramce companies having to use most of their premiums that you pay into for actual care? (Obamacare did that)
        ACA is not perfect, not by a long stretch but the GOP thinnks that limiting what they deem as “frivolus lawsuits” against malpractice is the only solution, ignoring the useless but expensive redunadant testing down to pad doctors and hospital’s bottom lines, big pharma’s desire for more patients, not cures and lastly the insurance industry that adds another 30% on top of the money that is already put into the pot that the average person has to pay because the company, not the indvidual is the end user of HC in this country.
        I am sick and tired as well of conservative morons who do not understand we have some realities to face here… The baby boomers (the largest group in the country) are retiring and they require more HC as the elderly tend to need. There is not enough new workers to offset that number that are retiring so that means more people are using services than are paying in. The ACA mission is to get everyone paying into the system so the cost of HC doesn’t go up as steeply… and guess what? Its working. So you and your conservative friends need to get your heads out of the rectum of the authors here, fox news and the rest of the conservative propagandists and do some math.
        the onoly thing that gets fabricated around here is the conservative black and white little world that you dream about but has never existed.

        • real American

          How is it working? Our premiums have skyrocketed and our coverage is less. Yet even with higher premiums are co pays tripled and the co pay for hospitalization makes it almost impossible for us to afford hospitalization. We have not seen what things will look like for this next year. It may be we will not be able to afford it! If you are over 70 you are called units and a board of individuals who DO NOT have to have any medical background determine whether they will approve of you care! We make under 70,000 a year so we are not the horrible rich people liberals whine about. Just middle class citizens who have always paid our way; now it seems we are going to be screwed so that those who have rarely paid their way get more! Sorry I don’t see how it is working at all except for those American’s who want someone else to pay their way for everything.

        • Frank Kahn

          As a member of the “baby boomer” generation, I have some questions about this mysterious scenario you have just imposed on health care. In general, this argument is, historically, used to explain the problem with social security. It appears, as you stated, to be a problem with basic math skills. But, I would posit that it is a failure of liberals ability to do simple math, not conservatives.

          Since I am a, late, baby boomer, my information about population and employment is representative of the biggest total amount of BB population. When I entered the work force in the early 70’s, the United States total population was less than 200 million. The current population is over 300 million. So, when I heard people saying there were more baby boomers retiring than there were new people working to support Social Security, I was shocked and dismayed. That would mean that the increase of 100 million citizens actually resulted in a decrease in the total number of workers in the country. If we presumed a steady percentage of citizens to be of working age and ability, say 70%, the workforce would have increased by 70 million. That is simple math.

          Now, lets get to your post:

          “I am sick and tired as well of conservative morons who do not understand we have some realities to face here… ”

          Realities need to be faced by everyone, and to do that you need to start with reality.

          “The baby boomers (the largest group in the country) are retiring and they require more HC as the elderly tend to need. ”

          First, I am not sure what health care issues are actually caused by retirement. When I retire, will I suddenly develop hypertension or diabetes? Are health care issues, that are caused by lifestyles, only affecting the elderly? Is a major killer of humans, Cancer, something that only attacks older people? Many of the biggest (in number of patients) drain on medical care are conditions that are not limited to old people. Cancer, diabetes, COPD to name a few, are problems that attack even very young children. Even Obesity, which causes many problems with health, can be traced to young children. Sometimes it is genetic, other times is it lifestyle.

          “There is not enough new workers to offset that number that are retiring ”

          Now, leaving out the argument I previously stated about population and workers, I would like to ask you how the workforce number is related to paying for health care? I suppose if we consider health care to be socialized (like social security), then the number of taxpayers might be the source of your idea.

          “so that means more people are using services than are paying in. ”

          As a retired person, I don’t have to pay for health care? Wow, why didn’t anyone tell me this before, I have been wasting my money.

          “The ACA mission is to get everyone paying into the
          system so the cost of HC doesn’t go up as steeply… and guess what? ”

          Okay, I have not had the time to read the entire obese bill, so I am not aware of all the provisions therein. But, the main thrust, as explained by Obama and his democrat support unit, is not lowering the cost of health care. It is about lowering the cost of health care insurance for those who have high risk medical conditions. It is not about making the procedures less expensive, it is about making them accessible to everyone.

          “Its working. ”

          Yes, going by your false premise about it making health care less expensive, it is working. I recently heard about how the cost of dialysis has been reduced by 50%. Heart by-pass surgery is now 30% less. My mothers hypertension medication cost has dropped from $380 a month to just $20. Instead of $100 for a standard checkup visit, to the doctor is it now only $10. As a conservative, I was so relieved that the liberal assessment was finally true that I was ecstatic. Then I woke up.

          “So you and your conservative friends need to get your heads out of the rectum of the authors here, fox news and the rest of the conservative propagandists and do some math.”

          Oops, wrong thing to say here. When you wake up in the morning, and you have a nasty taste in your mouth, and there is a bad odor there, it is because you had your head up Obama’s butt. Propaganda is perpetrated by all angles of any debate. Obama, and the democrats, are using lots of propaganda type misdirection to sell something that will not do what you are saying.

          “the onoly thing that gets fabricated around here is the conservative black and white little world that you dream about but has never existed.”

          Ah, this last statement brings up the issue of that extremely immoral work with the phrase “shades of grey” in it. Your statement is based on a liberal LIE. Or, to be more accurate, a litany of many lies. A world that never existed, is a phrase I hear, being used by liberals, that encompasses many of their immoral behaviors. Marriage is between a man and a woman, yep, never happened that way. This world never had that idea, not even one time in all of the history of the world. Killing an unborn baby is wrong, yep, the people of the world have never embraced that concept. Not once, in all of history, in any nation, has that concept been put forth. Oops, take some time to read the Constitution of the Philippines. The right to life is guaranteed “from the time of conception”. Maybe, you are one of those liberals that claims that capitalism has never worked. At no time, in the history of the world, has capitalism been successful?

          Please, try to break the liberal mold, tell us what has never existed, instead of a blanket hyperbolic statement that seems to include every idea of conservatives.

          • Dave

            Frank here is some statitics I found:

            Spending on HC by age group (2006 statistics, I didn’t think I had to explain common sense stuff but I will)

            Under 25

            $3,016

            25 to 34

            $4,576

            35 to 44

            $5,713

            45 to 54

            $6,463

            55 to 64

            $7,703

            65 to 74

            $21,116

            75 and over

            $20,965

            Now lets look at the population of the United States by Age

            http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf

            In 1960:

            People under 18 made up 35.9 % of the population in 2010 its 24%

            In 1960 people 19-44 made up 34.8% of the population, 2010 its 36.5%

            in 1960 people 45-64 made up 20.3% in 2010 its 26.4%

            In 1960 people 65 and up were 9%. in 2010 is 13%

            So with older people using more HC (proven) and the population of the United States getting to be an older population (proven) it means more pressure is put on the HC system.

            http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/14/pf/health-insurance-premiums/index.html
            Frank, what does this tell you?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Not a thing. With Free Markets, absent Government meddling, the system would adjust to any changes in Demographics.
            http://mises.org/daily/2285

            But the Leaders and their Propagandists will keep telling you that you need more Government meddling until the system finally completely breaks down. Then those same people will just disappear to their mountain cabins or some other remote location to enjoy your spoils.

          • Dave

            Yawn….

          • Don 2

            Double Yawn….

          • Frank Kahn

            Okay, try to follow me on this. I am going to be a little lazy and not calculate the actual population numbers, just the percentages you give.

            “In 1960:

            People under 18 made up 35.9 % of the population in 2010 its 24%

            In 1960 people 19-44 made up 34.8% of the population, 2010 its 36.5%

            in 1960 people 45-64 made up 20.3% in 2010 its 26.4%

            In 1960 people 65 and up were 9%. in 2010 is 13%

            So with older people using more HC (proven) and the population of the United States getting to be an older population (proven) it means more pressure is put on the HC system.

            Frank, what does this tell you?”

            Okay, here it goes, your statistics show that the working age population increased 7.8% in the stated time frame. And, the aged, retired population increased by 4%. That proves your, original, assertion of fewer workers to support the old people to be false.

            Now, while you did not give a comparison of HC cost from 1960 to today, we might assume that there is the same cost range in percentage for both periods. If that is true, then the actual burden of HC compared to workers would have been greater in 1960 than it is today.

            But, it still does not answer my question about, what the ratio of workers to retired people has to do with the cost of, or payment for, health care is.

          • Dave

            Frank,
            HC usage and costs goes up exponenitally at 65, those people are growing in number, not shrinking….
            The working people are paying into the system but its not enough to offset their HC costs and the paying for yours as a retired person. I believe in allowing you to retire and enjoy life, not have to become a walmart greeter so you have to meet HC bills that are out of control.
            HC was a different animal back in 1960. YOU, yourself had the relationship with your doctor, a visit to the doctor did not require insurance. HC has been corporitized and now there is a pill for all that ails you. The firm did not dictate who you could see, there was no “out of network” nonsense.
            Its apples and oranges…
            I am happy to listen to a better plan Frank. You got one?

          • Don 2

            Hey, maybe there’s even a pill for what ails you Dave?

          • Dave

            No but I know what would be the cure for you…. Mr Plummer…

          • Don 2

            Dave,
            Regardless of how hard you try, your gay come-on will not work with me.

          • Frank Kahn

            It is strange that you hit the target with your attempt at defining the problem, but you miss the bulls-eye. If you hit the target, but miss the bulls-eye, you cannot solve the problem. You might eliminate some of the symptoms, but the problem will still be there. This is exactly the problem with health care, they treat the symptoms and not the problem. The problem with the ACA is that it attempts to treat a symptom while ignoring the problem entirely.

            If the engine, in my car, fails to produce enough power to move my car, I don’t force all my neighbors to push my car everywhere I want to drive. I have two options, fix the engine or buy a new car. If it is not economically feasible to repair the engine a new (different) car is indicated.

            “HC usage and costs goes up exponenitally at 65, those people are growing in number, not shrinking….”

            No reason to make this assertion, I acknowledged that fact, I just pointed out that your assertion that there were fewer workers was incorrect.

            “The working people are paying into the system but its not enough to offset their HC costs and the paying for yours as a retired person. ”

            Here is the first near miss at hitting the bulls-eye. “The system” that you refer to is broken. However, you are referring to the wrong system. It is not really the insurance system that is the cause. And paying into the insurance system does not pay the cost of my HC.

            “I believe in allowing you to retire and enjoy life, not have to become a walmart greeter so you have to meet HC bills that are out of control.”

            Here you imply the correct problem, the cost of health care is out of control. The problem with the insurance companies, and the citizens ability to purchase it is a symptom, not the cause.

            “HC was a different animal back in 1960. YOU, yourself had the relationship with your doctor, a visit to the doctor did not require insurance. ”

            Actually, my family could not afford the cost of, sudden, unexpected health care back then. We had insurance that covered those costs.

            “HC has been corporitized and now there is a pill for all that ails you. The firm did not dictate who you could see, there was no “out of network” nonsense.”

            Three more players in the problem, however two of them are symptoms of treating a symptom instead of the cause.

            “Its apples and oranges…”

            Yes, but you still are not even mentioning the cause of the change.

            “I am happy to listen to a better plan Frank. You got one?”

            An exact plan? NO. But a couple of ideas that would help put the focus in a better area for actually helping the system, without putting a burden on everyone.

            First idea, lets work on getting proper care to those high risk patients that need it. Instead of wasting resources on managing a massive health insurance mandate for everyone, lets subsidize the care of those that need it. We already waste billions upon billions of dollars on special benefits for public sector workers. Lots of money is wasted on unnecessary perks. Lets cut that waste and divert the funds to health care cost for the elderly. Hell, kill two birds with one stone, tax the contributions of lobbyists. Make them subsidize health care cost, as a percentage of their contribution for special treatment for their corporations.

            That idea is over simplified and actually only addresses the symptoms so it is not a good solution.

            Second idea, lets actually address the real causes of the problems. There are many real causes so I will only touch on a few. The solution for the problems is complex and will be very difficult to implement.

            1. Cost of health care itself. Cause, litigation. Many procedures are ordered, by doctors, to avoid the possibility of being sued for failing to check all possible medical issues. The high cost of a doctor visit is mainly due to the need for malpractice insurance. Cause, Lawyers, and greedy citizens. But mainly the greed of the Lawyers themselves. The cost of hospital stays are a direct result of needing to subsidize the purchase and maintenance of high tech equipment to perform all those preventive (from lawsuits) procedures. So, step one, get the lawyers out of the medical profession, they are not doctors.

            2. Cost of prescription drugs. This is a many faceted problem. Litigation has an effect here also. Due to the failure to properly test and vet new medicine, pharmaceutical companies are subject to massive legal expenses. We also have an extremely high cost of new product development research. This cost is passed on to the consumer. Actually the litigation and research costs are subsidized by the United States citizens, this is not passed on to other countries. The cost for prescription drugs is much lower in other countries. If these costs were born by all people, everywhere, our cost would be reduced significantly.

            3. Insurance companies, ouch, this one would take a book to explain. There are two, interrelated problems with them. They are not in the business of providing health care, they are in it for profit. To increase their profit margins they interfere with the doctors ability to perform the correct procedures, at the right time, to have effective health care. Insurance companies are not doctors, so they should not be involved in the decision process for health care.

            4. Lifestyle, here is the biggest actual health care problem. In our, current, society we are very lax in our health standards. We eat the wrong things, we don’t get enough exercise, we abuse tobacco and alcohol. So, when a fat, lazy, alcoholic goes to the doctor, he asks the insurance company to authorize the doctor to prescribe a pill from the pharmaceutical company to fix his disease. When actually he could have ate more vegetables, took an evening walk instead of getting drunk and never needed to go to the doctor. There are, actually, many natural cures (preventative), that are found in foods. Some have anti-cancer properties, can lower hypertension and even alleviate many COPD symptoms. A proper diet, and eating schedule, can prevent or help control diabetes.

            So, in conclusion, it is stupid to force everyone to participate in a system, that is actually one of the problems with the cost of health care. Having everyone pay the insurance company will not reduce the cost of health care. What is needed is many changes to our system. First we need to educate the public on the dangers, or benefits, of different foods. Help them to understand that exercise is a physical exertion that is good for you. Playing X-box only exercises your fingers, it does nothing for your overall health. Next, we need to get the Insurance companies out of the equation, when it comes to deciding who to treat and how. Then we need to stop suing the doctors for every perceived problem. Yes, doctors sometimes make mistakes. But, unless it is a case of gross negligence, it does not raise to the level of a multi-million dollar settlement. So lets put some limits on the amount that lawyers can make in litigation of malpractice.

          • Dave

            Frank,
            You should know by now that lawyers do not slither in until there is lots of money in the process. that kicked in with HC becoming corporatized.
            I agree about foods. subsidies to big agro to grow the stuff that is bad for us should end.
            I also agree about getting insurance companies out of the equation and have an understanding that the human physiology is not an exact science so as long as there is no willful malice or negligence in the process, there needs to be an end to suing for everything. but the money from litigation is a small amount of the dollars involved. You go to most major metro areas and see who is buying multi-million dollars homes… in many cases its doctors (because they can). doctors used to be in your neighborhood and the hypocratic oath meant something. Today, they, hospitals, drugs firms, insurance firms and lawyers are all involved to take as much money as they can grab.
            ACA at least limits who much insurance companies can rip you off to pad their bottom lines. And you cannot be turned down for pre-existing conditions.
            I propose a system where you can see the doctor of your preference and no insurance company is there saying its out of network… You pay a portion, the company you work for pays a portion and in some instances the Gov subsidizes the care when the company/individual cannot afford to take care of the issue on their own. Also, useless testing… it needs to stop.

          • Frank Kahn

            Are you and smilee brothers? Did you both go to the same liberal college? Did you both have liberal lobotomies? Is there any way that a liberal can be shown the pure stupidity of their remarks? Is there any way, short of shooting them, that can solve their problem with reality?

            “You should know by now that lawyers do not slither in until there is lots of money in the process. that kicked in with HC becoming corporatized. ”

            CARE TO STEP UP AND DEFINE WHAT CORPORATIZED MEANS? WANT TO SUBMIT A TIMELINE FOR WHEN THIS HAPPENED, AND SHOW ITS CORRELATION TO THE ADVENT OF LAWYERS GETTING INVOLVED?

            “I agree about foods. subsidies to big agro to grow the stuff that is bad for us should end. ”

            I AM SORRY YOU ARE A LIBERAL, AND THEREFORE INCAPABLE OF KEEPING ON SUBJECT, BUT WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

            “I also agree about getting insurance companies out of the equation and ”

            DON’T SHOW OFF YOUR STUPID HYPOCRISY, EITHER YOU WANT OBAMACARE OR YOU WANT INSURANCE COMPANIES OUT OF THE EQUATION.

            “have an understanding that the human physiology is not an exact science so as long as there is no willful malice or negligence in the process, there needs to be an end to suing for everything. but the money from
            litigation is a small amount of the dollars involved. ”

            TELL THAT TO A DOCTOR THAT IS SUED FOR $50,000,000 JUST BECAUSE A PATIENT DIED.

            “You go to most major metro areas and see who is buying multi-million dollars homes… in many cases its doctors (because they can). ”

            SHOWING SOME CLASS ENVY? SINCE DOCTORS CAN AFFORD EXPENSIVE HOMES, THEY MUST BE EVIL GREEDY PEOPLE?

            “doctors used to be in your neighborhood and the hypocratic oath meant something. Today, they,
            hospitals, drugs firms, insurance firms and lawyers are all involved to take as much money as they can grab.”

            ISN’T THAT ONE OF THE PROBLEMS I STATED IN MY POST?

            “ACA at least limits who much insurance companies can rip you off to pad their bottom lines. ”

            YES, AS A LIBERAL, ENORMOUS GOVERNMENT INVOLVEMENT IDIOT, YOU PROBABLY THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING. LET THE GOVERNMENT LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY A COMPANY CAN EARN IN PROFITS.

            “And you cannot be turned down for pre-existing conditions.”

            AND NO COMPANY HAS THE RIGHT TO LIMIT ITS RISK OF LOSS, THAT WOULD BE INSANE, WE NEED THEM TO FAIL WHEN THE GOVERNMENT SAYS SO.

            “I propose a system where you can see the doctor of your preference and no insurance company is there saying its out of network… You pay a portion, the
            company you work for pays a portion and in some instances the Gov subsidizes the care when the company/individual cannot afford to take
            care of the issue on their own. ”

            MORE LIBERAL STUPIDITY SHINING THROUGH. THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT SUBSIDIZE ANYTHING. THE WORKING MEMBERS OF THE COUNTRY PAY FOR EVERYTHING. IF YOU CAN’T PAY THE COST OF HEALTH CARE, THE REST OF US ARE FORCED TO PAY FOR YOU.

            “Also, useless testing… it needs to stop”

            I THINK I COVERED THE REASON FOR MUCH OF THE UNNECESSARY TESTING PREVALENT IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

          • Dave

            Frank,
            If you want to continue to be a conservative unbalanced moron go ahead.
            The subsidies to big agro go to allowing crap fast food and snacks to be able to be brought market at less cost than good for you natural fruits and vegtables.
            If if you were not such an unbalanced moron, you would see that I agree with many of your points you ignoramous…. ACA is not perfect by along shot… I said that before stupid….
            Get it though your stupid thick skull… I believe the insurance company-company model is no good for competition for non emergency HC because YOU are not the end users of HC. Emergency HC, there is no competition. You are not going to check prices of different hospitals and doctors when you are having a heart attack.
            Lawyers, Doctors, Hospitals, Insurance firms, farm subsidies, big drug companies are all part of the problem. There is no “class envy” moron… I am telling you wht contributes to the high HC costs.
            Corporatized means when a board of directors makes decisions based on profit rather than care.
            You are jst to stupid to realize that someone is basically agreeing with you. But then again, you are a conservative and a bit slow on the uptake.
            Enjoy your ignorance Frankie baby.

          • Frank Kahn

            Unbalanced? You basically agree with me? ACA is not perfect? It is the government subsidies that cause us to eat fast food and junk snacks?

            “If you want to continue to be a conservative unbalanced moron go ahead.
            The subsidies to big agro go to allowing crap fast food and snacks to be able to be brought market at less cost than good for you natural fruits and vegtables.”

            There are different types of subsidies. The original farm subsidies were intended to help prevent hardships by market glut. They were paid to farmers to not grow something that was in excess. The rule of supply and demand would cause the value of a crop, that is over produced, to drop. So that type of subsidy was intended to manipulate the market. In reality its goal was to keep the price higher, not lower. Then there are subsidies to corporations that are involved in GMO research and development. The goal of GMO, is supposed to be to increase our ability to feed more people with the same natural resources. A good idea, conceptually, but devastating in implementation. While these affect the cost of products, they do not cause us to prefer fast foods, or junk snacks. That is where my suggestion of better education on nutrition comes into play.

            “If if you were not such an unbalanced moron, you would see that I agree with many of your points you ignoramous…. ACA is not perfect by along shot… I said that before stupid….”

            Not perfect is a problem here, we are not agreeing on the concept. You say it is not perfect, I say it does nothing to address the actual problem.

            “Get it though your stupid thick skull… I believe the insurance company-company model is no good for competition for non emergency HC because YOU are not the end users of HC. ”

            And, as I said before, if the insurance company model is not good for competition, why force everyone to buy into it.

            “Emergency HC, there is no competition. You are not going to check prices of different hospitals and doctors when you are having a heart attack.”

            Of course you are not going to shop around for the best value when you are dying, but what does Obamacare have to do with that?

            “Lawyers, Doctors, Hospitals, Insurance firms, farm subsidies, big drug companies are all part of the problem. ”

            You left out government. And, basically, government is the root cause in most of the items you did include. Rules, and regulations, that the industry is forced to operate under, along with policies that support and encourage the monopoly of large corporations is at the center of the problem. Many doctors are forced to join HMO groups to survive. The non-competition monopoly policies make it difficult, if not impossible, to compete. This does not change that doctors professional ethics, or their desire to help people.

            “There is no “class envy” moron… I am telling you
            wht contributes to the high HC costs.”

            Your made a statement about the living style of doctors. You specifically mentioned their million dollar homes. You implied a specific cause and effect of greed to get fancy homes. While this may perpetuate the high cost of health care, it is not a root cause. Most people decide what profession they will train for based on the profit they will receive from their efforts. In a way, our desire to have a better paying job is a type of greed, but it is also a natural desire.

            “Corporatized means when a board of directors makes decisions based on profit rather than care.”

            Much of what you call corporatized (corporations) control of care is fostered by the insurance industry. In other cases it might be fueled by an analysis of potential benefit of care versus the possibility of litigation.

            “You are jst to stupid to realize that someone is basically agreeing with you. ”

            Okay, I am too stupid to realize that you are agreeing that, big government interference is the biggest problem with health care. And, I am too stupid to realize that, even though you advocate universal health care insurance, that you agree that insurance companies are a major problem.

            “But then again, you are a conservative and a bit slow on the uptake.”

            Being a conservative changes the issues that are important. It forms the basis of the ethics and morals of the person, not the speed of or capacity for intelligent thought. Maybe, you are having a problem focusing on the original issue here. We were discussing the PPACA, and its efficacy in changing the problem with the cost of health care. You support the acts as a minor improvement in this issue, I disagree completely with that assessment. So tell me again, how you are basically agreeing with me on this issue.

            “Enjoy your ignorance Frankie baby”

        • Don 2

          Ya know, we’re kind of on the same page here. I also am sick and tired of morons named Dave!

      • smilee

        Death Panels was a GOP creation that in reality never existed except in their rhetoric

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Listen to Dave, the Liberal Progressive Zealot. Here’s what Liberal Progressives really think about your health:

      After you watch that, read this article:
      http://finance.yahoo.com/news/health-care-laws-success-rests-040100677.html
      Welcome to Dave and Cohorts’ Brave New World.

      • Dave

        better than listening to selfish theory boy whose economic theory has never been in existance in the modern industrialized/global trade world

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Actually it has, but Freedom doesn’t generally last long before the psychopathic Leaders and their non-productive minions jump on our gravy train and start helping themselves to our production.
          But what we have had as a common condition in the past is pure Socialism — USSR, China, Cuba, and North Korea for example, and it always fails. Yet, Propagandists like Dave will tell you “we will just put it part way in”. Yeah, sure thing.
          Socialism is a proven failure which can only exist as a parasite on the backs of Capitalists.

          • Dave

            Bullchit, name the county since the late 1800’s DaveH. You call it “freedom”? Of course you do you master mis-informer.
            Its always one extreme or the other with carney huckster conservatives like you. How much does BobL and Mises pay you per link?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Where do you get this — “name the county since the late 1800’s DaveH”?
            Why the “late 1800s” qualifier? As I’ve said before, we had mostly Free Markets in the US in the 19th century up until Teddy Roosevelt. And the US became the most economically powerful country on the Earth during that century. And since then the Progressives (both categories) have taken us back to a pre-revolution Political Environment, where the Leaders support their Crony Capitalists and visa-versa. The fact that there haven’t been Free Markets since then has absolutely no bearing whatsoever in relation to their value.
            And as I keep repeating, we have had many examples of the failure of your Socialism.
            So, riddle me this. There are two guys hitching a ride. You have to pick one of them up. One is a known murderer. The other you don’t know anything about. Which one would you pick up?
            Only in this case, we do know that Free Markets work, and we do know that Socialism doesn’t. So for anybody capable of cognitive thought, it is a no-brainer.

          • Dave

            Because, that is when the modern industrial age started and as I said before. You are a liar and you have nothing. Teddy Roosevelt took on the monopolies (something DaveH says cannot happen in a “free market” economy) LOL.
            I do enjoy exposing your manipulation and propaganda.
            As I said before, Finland, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Germany have a higher degree of socialism than the United States has and yet they survive and actually have a better standard of living, better HC and are happier as a society.
            DaveH on the other hand wants every person for him or herself. He has no clue about how societies work, He hates the United States, the country that allows him to communicate with us on the internet, to drive to the conspiracy meeting using infrastructure that was created by taxes… or as DaveH and his boss Bobl calls it… Theft.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            There were no monopolies, Dave, just companies that were out-competing the Crony Capitalists. The only true monopolies we’ve ever had were those which the Government created by Force.
            http://mises.org/daily/2317
            You are a liar, Dave, and the fact that you regularly stick up for Big Government no matter how much evidence that I provide to the contrary shows that you are nothing but a Big Government shill.
            You haven’t exposed anything, Dave, but your desperation in the face of being shown to be the fool you are.
            Dave says — “As I said before, Finland, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Germany have a higher degree of socialism than the United States has and yet they survive and actually have a better standard of living”.
            You say a lot, Dave, but back up none of it. You are a legend in your own mind, and that’s the only place.
            Those who want to check out Dave’s nonsense can go here and pick the country names to see just how they relate to each other in terms of Economic Freedom:
            http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
            You will be surprised to find out that some of those you thought mostly Socialistic are actually very Capitalistic.
            Of course the loser Dave will make some ad hominem remark about Heritage because he has nothing else — No facts, no logic.
            And here is a ranking of countries by their per capita wealth on a PPP basis:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
            Note that only one of the countries on Dave’s list outperforms the US — Norway. And they derive a lot of their wealth from hydrocarbon production — That dreaded anti-green substance:
            http://mises.org/daily/6318/The-Oslo-Housing-Bubble-Syndrome
            From the article:
            “However, as oil revenues are continuing to pour into the government budget and sovereign wealth fund, it makes the Norwegian economy look like a good bet”.

          • Dave

            You are the liar… Roosevelt came in a broke up the monopolies… your mises is loaded with conjecture.
            You want proof, look up the stats on HC, Education and general happiness yourself. If its not on mises, Heritage or CATO, your computer I guess doesn’t go to those sites.
            Once again DaveH does not know how to listen or is just willfully ignorant. I said those countries have a higher degree of socialsm. DaveH the massive propagandist doesn’t want to listen.
            Nothing new from a paid shill from mises.

          • Dave

            Now propagandist DaveH loves to use the Heritage Foundation… Who is involved with this group of racist/corporatists?

            Heritage Foundation has received $780,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.

            Funding According to Media Transparency, the Heritage Foundation received $61,944,537 in foundation grants from organizations such as: the Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, the Scaife Foundations, the John M. Olin Foundation, Inc., Castle Rock Foundation, JM Foundation, Claude R. Lambe Charitable Foundation, the Richard and Helen DeVos Foundation, and the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation. Heritage has received donations from the East Asian nations of South Korea and Taiwan; SourceWatch reports that in 1988 Korean intelligence discovered that Heritage received $2.2 million from the South Korean National Assembly during the 1980’s. Although Heritage denies this claim, they do admit to receiving a $400,000 grant from the Korean conglomerate Samsung. The Korea Foundation, a conduit of the Korean government, has also donated almost $1 million to Heritage in the past three years. – See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/heritage-foundation#sthash.5OoMNJVQ.dpuf

            So DaveH relies on a corporatist side for his BS.

            Here is examples of Heritage’s racism.

            http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/05/heritage-foundation-jason-richwine/65005/

            Tge lies and BS from DaveH, paid propagandist for mises just keeps on rolling…

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, Dave, you are the liar, by virtue of calling me a liar for just stating facts.
            Dave says — “You want proof, look up the stats on HC, Education and general happiness yourself”.
            Peoples’ opinions somehow equate to facts in your Liberal Progressive world, Dave? No wonder you’re the mess you are.
            Anybody, who reads the articles that I posted, will see what I’m talking about, and the intelligent people won’t listen to your rabid nonsense.
            Ad hominem attacks, stating conjecture over and over again as if it were fact, and other manipulative tactics, put you squarely in the Propagandist category, Dave, and anybody who has any sense can see that. The rest are hopeless anyway.

          • Dave

            When mises, talks about economic… very little “facts” are employed… much conjecture and using models from the late 19th century/early 20th century that doesn’t take into monetary polices of different countries, trade policy does not make fact DaveH… As I said before, you are a lying propagandist for mises. You lie when you call me or anyone else who disagrees with you a socialist/communist/Marxist. Deal with the record you have earned.
            You are also a selfish, self-centered conservative jerk who has zero clue how societies function. They collect taxes to make society work. You don’t like it? Move to Somalia or Antarctica.
            You are a sad traitor to the United States… If you actually are an American and not some foreign agitator brought in by your boss Bob L.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Feel Free to dispute any specific statements that are made by Mises Institute authors, Dave.
            Or you can continue to make broad general unsupported statements and ad hominem attacks like the Liberal Progressive that you are.
            If any of your Liberal Progressive cohorts had any brains, they’d be trying to shut you up, because you’re giving them a bad name.

          • Dave

            Lets look at one of their authors

            http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Thomas_DiLorenzo

            “Thomas DiLorenzo is an Austrian school “economist” and pseudohistorian who holds a post as a professor of economics at Loyola College, Maryland and as a fellow at the Ludwig von Mises Institute and formerly worked for the neo-secessionist League of the South Institute. DiLorenzo’s revisionist history has made him a popular “scholar” within libertarian circles and among some of the nuttier Teabaggers.”

            ‘So, as an economist, what is Mr. DiLorenzo’s astute analysis of the current banking crisis? Why, ACORN and Jimmy Carter did it, of course![10]”

            http://www.lewrockwell.com/2007/09/thomas-dilorenzo/the-government-created-subprime-mortgage-meltdown/
            So Mises, has racists, extremists doing their writing and mises has ZERO accreditation. Oops…
            But I am supposed to believe you and them because they cite other zealots? OK Davey.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Oh surprise, a Liberal Progressive is bad-mouthing Thomas DiLorenzo. Why would they do that? Of course because Thomas is in the forefront of exposing the Progressives for the self-serving, privilege-seeking, Big-Government-Loving creeps that they are.
            Feel Free to point out any errors that Thomas has made, Dave.
            Or you could just keep doing the typical Liberal Progressive ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts that we’ve all come to expect from your fallacious posts.
            The readers aren’t as ignorant as you’d like them to be, Dave.

          • Dave

            Again, you are a liar. But then DaveH and lying is redunadant.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            That accusation might upset me, Dave, if you had any credibility on this board. But you don’t.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Dave,

            You write: “…and formerly worked for the neo-secessionist League of the South Institute.” DiLorenzo has never “worked” for the League of the South. He has explained his loose association with the organization many times. Here is one: http://www.lewrockwell.com/2011/02/thomas-dilorenzo/my-association-with-liars-bigots-and-murderers/

            Not that you’ve ever let facts stand in the way of an opportunity to obfuscate, denigrate or pontificate.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Dave

            Just following your lead there Bob… You never let the facts get in the way of your ideology and agenda do you? I suggest if you want to be left alone like you say you want, leave the grid and live off the land in Alaska. Either that or go live in Somalia. I here their taxes and Gov aren’t all that obtrusive.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Dave,

            Typical unhinged Dave non-response. Throw in a fallacy and move along. Good job.

            You write: ” I suggest if you want to be left alone like you say you want, leave the grid and live off the land in Alaska.” What makes you think I haven’t found a place even better than that?

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Dave

            Ok, then stop trying to screw up this country. Some of us like the United States.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Dave,

            You write: “formerly worked for the neo-secessionist League of the South Institute.” I’ve already disabused of this smear on DiLorenzo, that he ever “worked” for the League of the South. But if he had, so what? The idea of separating from oppressive government is quite American. I refer you to 1776. Besides any unsavory (in your view) associations do not diminish the truth.

            You write: ” nuttier Teabaggers.” Nice. More ad hominems, your stock and trade.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

            P.S. I know what your response will be to my first comment. Let me warn you; do not go there.

          • Dave

            Really Bob?
            I know my response would be that you are stuck in the 1800’s?
            You, DaveH, Mr DiLorenzo… you all wish we could go back and be this small agriculure based counutry that has no standing in the globe.
            Those days are gone.
            I know you were expecting me to touch on the racist elements but I do not need to. Conservatism and racism… The history is well known. I don’t need to beat that horse… We all know where conservatives of their day stood on slavery, women’s rights, civil rights… Today we have many examples of conservative prejudices when it comes to marriage equality.
            Your side tries to run from it… You even are guilty… when you laughingly said the KKK were Democrats in the 1950’s which is proof that the KKK and the democrats are liberal as if nothing changed in the country or the parties since the 1950’s… Its all part of the great attempt at historical rewrite you conservatives are famous for…

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Feel Free to dispute any specific statements that are made by Mises Institute authors, Dave.
            Or you can continue to make broad general unsupported statements and ad hominem attacks like the Liberal Progressive that you are.
            If any of your Liberal Progressive cohorts had any brains, they’d be trying to shut you up, because you’re giving them a bad name.

          • Dave

            Because, that is when the modern industrial age started and as I said before. You are a liar and you have nothing. Teddy Roosevelt took on the monopolies (something DaveH says cannot happen in a “free market” economy) LOL.
            I do enjoy exposing your manipulation and propaganda.
            As I said before, Finland, Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Germany have a higher degree of socialism than the United States has and yet they survive and actually have a better standard of living, better HC and are happier as a society.
            DaveH on the other hand wants every person for him or herself. He has no clue about how societies work, He hates the United States, the country that allows him to communicate with us on the internet, to drive to the conspiracy meeting using infrastructure that was created by taxes… or as DaveH and his boss Bobl calls it… Theft.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Dave says — “The GOP never had a real plan for HC except for “don’t get sick and die quickly if you do get sick””.
      That is because “no plan” is better than the “real plan” that the Liberal Progressives have offered.
      Government Progressives have been meddling in healthcare for at least 100 years. Each time, after new problems have been created by their meddling, they offer to throw more gasoline on the fire to put it out.

      American Healthcare Fascialism:
      http://mises.org/daily/3793
      The Myth of Free-Market Healthcare:
      http://mises.org/daily/5066
      A Four-Step Health-Care Solution:
      http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279

      • Dave

        Yes, DaveH, you and your ilk are just too happy to see people declare bankruptcy over medical issues…That is DaveH and his self-centered and selfishness talking…
        I here Somalia is calling your name….

        • Don 2

          I hear America is going to be the new Somalia under Ovomit and the Dumocrats!

          • Dave

            You mean if selfish idiots like you and DaveH are allow to further tear apart this country?

          • Don 2

            Selfish? Just because you are a screwed-up lazy, can’t-keep-a-job-without-a-union-protecting-my-butt Democrat, you think that I owe your kind something Hoplophobe Dave?

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          The Liberal Progressive Dave desperately pulls out his bag of manipulative ad hominem attacks.
          Interesting, isn’t it Folks, that Dave and his ilk consider you to be selfish for holding on to your own money, but he is unselfish for wanting to take your money from you?
          Only in the upside-down world of Liberal Progressive non-logic.

          • Dave

            And I see you are the sad same broken record of theories that have never worked in the modern world. Once you go outside of mises, heritage and CATO, you are like a scared little rabbit, unsure of the world around you.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Talk about broken records. We get the same lame “theories that have never worked in the modern world” nonsense from Dave time after time.
            He has the nerve to dis Free Markets as a theory that has “never worked”, but callously ignores the reality that his pet political system — Socialism — has been a miserable failure everywhere it is fully implemented. Socialism can only exist parasitically on the host of Capitalism. When Socialists run out of other peoples’ money, they ALWAYS fail.

          • Dave

            And I see you are the sad same broken record of theories that have never worked in the modern world. Once you go outside of mises, heritage and CATO, you are like a scared little rabbit, unsure of the world around you.

    • Don 2

      “Get sick and die quickly?” Wait a minute here! I could have sworn that wacko Alan Grayson (D-Fla) was thrown out of office. So, he’s back now telling the same lies and calling himself Dave?

  • Doc Sarvis

    Obamacare as an issue is either hated or loved depending on who you ask. The Affordable Care Act’s components however, are largely endorsed by most Americans. Insurance rates have already had there smallest increase in decades and that is likely to continue to go down as more competition spreads through the market.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      B.S.

      • CommonSense4America

        Not sure about the %, but it’s not BS.

    • Don 2

      Obamacare is so wonderful that congressional staffers complained that they cannot afford the ACA premiums on their average $70,000/year jobs(many over $100,000/year). So, Obama is taking care of Congress and congressional staffers with a special subsidy of 75% just for them. It will be paid automatically, for Congress and their staffers only, but not for the rest of us.

      • smilee

        Gee that is a cost savings of 5% as before it was 70% before Obamacare, read it in the paper this morning.

        • Don 2

          And the justification for taking care of and benefitting only federal governmental congressional employees, while the actual hard working taxpayer in private businesses all across America has to come up with the premiums themselves, without Obama’s help via would be…..what?

          • smilee

            My employer paid 85% and most pay the lion shares so why would you not approve of the same for government employees after all they are human and why would you not want to pay them the same? Any company over 50 employees will have to soon, so what is you real beef or are you just greedy??

          • Don 2

            A special exemption for only federal employees sucks pal, but then, you’re probably one too.

          • smilee

            There is no special exemption but like every employee they can keep what they got but no special exemption again you show your ignorance

          • Don 2
  • madmax

    Government run media from all aspects probably even this web page trying to stir up the masses! Even though this is about as true as a site gets now adays!! The prez. Is a lieing pos.his administration is the same the masses of citizen are starting to see this puppet BOY lies! From JFK S ASSASSANATION to 9/11 and every thing in between it has been lies and cover ups!!! All we need to dois use the nsa against all the crooked banker thieves and the crooked politicanthat are in there pocket and clean washington once in for allof these p.o.s. low life scum.starting with the puppet BOY RACIST sitting in white house and his big mouthed wife too….

  • rendarsmith

    There’s something else in that bill that these RINO’s want enacted. The question is……what?

    • Capiralist at Birth

      Just like the Biometric ID that will be required of all Americans in the Immigration bill?

  • Peggy

    What is wrong with those people–they honestly have an oppurtunity to do something right, and they are letting it slip by at OUR expense as usual. WE need to replace every one of them–WE would be better off with REAL Americans in Washington DC taking care of our business. These patzies are just interested in having their freebies.

    • Alan

      It’s a good thing these turncoats were’nt minutemen during the revolutionary war or we would still be English subjects.

  • Dave

    Most people do not want the GOP to continue to waste the people’s time.

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/congressional-connection/coverage/poll-most-americans-don-t-want-congress-to-repeal-obamacare-20130722
    If the GOP cared one iota about the middle class or poor people (they don’t) they would try and come up with a better plan that reduces the incidence of personal bankruptcy stemming from HC in this country. But they don’t. They want to go back to the way it was… It was perfect… for the wealthy.

    • hungry4food

      Hey why should the Republicans defund Obamacare ???????

      Well
      no wonder the Support at the federal Level for Obamacare will continue
      !!!!!!!!

      The Office of Personnel Management, under heavy pressure
      from Capitol Hill, will issue regulations saying that the government can
      continue to make the employer contribution to the health plans of congressional
      members and aides, according to several Hill sources.

      http://politi.co/13FEyi9

    • Capitalist at Birth

      They have continually come up with a better plan. Do some research and you may be surprised.

      • Dave

        I have, what is the plan CAB?
        I am happy to listen to any plan that stops ordinary Americans from having to declare bankruptcy over medical issues and provides great care to all US Citizens.
        Ok Go…

        • Don 2

          And I am happy to listen to any plan that sends progressive liberals to Communist China. O.K., your turn buddy! Go ahead…

          • Dave

            Your idiot mind can’t understand that China is not or ever was communist. Because morons like you don’t understand the term

          • Don 2

            Really? Now, I’m laughing my a_ _ off!

          • Dave

            Idiots always laugh uncontrollably when their ignorance is exposed in public.

          • Don 2

            Hoplophobe Dave, what is it like to be such a loser? Any Democrat who’s job is to go on Conservative or Libertarian websites and attempt to re-write history are losers simply because of the job. It is the kind of job illegals wouldn’t even take.
            Your knowledge of Communist China is laughable.

          • Dave

            If you only knew what communism is, you would not say China was ever communist. But you are an idiot and a conservative so that is two strikes against you right there.

            just like using the term hoplophobe on me, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about but that is nothing you from you.

          • Don 2

            Well Ace, try googling “Communist China” and see what comes up. Then, go back to high school and get your G.E.D.

          • Dave

            Because everything on the internet is 100% true…

            Thank god for the internet… so idiots like you don’t have do do any reseach.

            Here is its definition for dummies like you.

            “classless political system: the political theory or system in which all property and wealth is owned in a classless society by all the members of that society”
            That means no strong centralized Gov… Does China have a small Gov? NO
            Does China or has China ever had a classless society? NO
            Is their a concept of personal property in China YES.
            But conservative idiots like you just go with the flow of other conservative idiots and misuse the term.
            Ignorants leading other ignorants….
            Get out elementary school in the 1950’s conservatives…

          • Don 2

            Oh poor boy, the “Agony of Defeat” doesn’t set well with little Davie, does it? My, my, my….

          • Dave

            Defeat? You clearly don’t have a clue about communism. You are just continually embarrassing yourself further.

          • Dale H Brown

            Dave
            They were pure Communist when I fought them in Korea–Mao was the head cheese, with a few of his cohorts and the people followed his orders–of course that was in the 1950’s, before the Chinese found out that capitalism works better –ask any POW of the Chinese and get their opinion on them , they may have a very different one than you

    • Don 2

      Better yet Dave, most people don’t want Obamacare! That includes unions and congressional staffers. How’s that grab ya man?

      • smilee

        Assuming you are correct it does not matter it is now the law and our reality.

        • Don 2

          And to your point, America has only the Democrat party and Barack Obama, to thank for this freedom killing and job killing “train wreck.”

          • smilee

            The train had already crashed when Obama came on the scene so your cracking the whip on the wrong backs and since 2011 the republicans controlled the house and also the Senate though filibusters except for 6 months, July 09-Jan-10 , Franken came in July and made it 60 and Brown in Jan reducing it to 59 so they only had that power during that time hardly enough to accomplish what you allege so can the fiction

          • Don 2

            Give it a rest with your silly a _ _ spin pal. Obamacare is the train wreck. Just ask Democrat Max Baucus. You Democrat clowns crack me up with your constant attempts to re-write history.

          • smilee

            Obamacare is history and the GOP is trying to rewrite that history and they will not succeed so eat your heart out. One democrat is not a democrat position and they will support obamacare in any vote if it comes up so this is just rhetoric and spin by GOP and after their efforts fail obamacare will go forward and when the population as a whole understands all it is and not what the GOP has been saying it is, it will then become as popular as Medicare. Medicare had these problems at this time in its history too. GOP really knows this and that is its greatest fear because then it will be here to stay. Let’s face it todays GOP would like to eliminate SS, Medicare, Medicaid and Obamacare and at the least would like to gut it so it is programs in name only. Your just a sore loser who will follow the GOP nonsense to soothe your wounds, Obamacare is here to stay get used to it.

          • Don 2

            I’m glad you support Obamacare and Obama. As a retired Democrat union thug, perhaps you’ll be one of the initial elderly patients to benefit from the 15 non-elected Obama appointees deciding on whether or not you’re too old to receive expensive healthcare because the money would be better spent on some new, younger former illegal alien, turned Democrat.
            By the way d-bag, those in the GOP trying to change or repeal a law, does not equate to re-writing history.

          • smilee

            You have a total misunderstanding of the the Obamacare law. This law prohibits what you tell me I should be afraid of. By the way tell me what a union thug is and what one looks like as I have never met one and doubt they exist except in the minds of those whose hearts are filled with hate.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear smilee,

            You write: “By the way tell me what a union thug is and what one looks like as I have never met one and doubt they exist except in the minds of those whose hearts are filled with hate.” This is what they look like. I’ve no doubt that if you were intellectually honest you could have found them yourself.

            http://www.westernjournalism.com/union-targets-grieving-families-at-gravesites/
            http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2968013/posts

            http://danaloeschradio.com/donors-offers-for-info-leading-to-arrest-of-union-thug/

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGr8oYV50l8

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • smilee

            Thanks Bob but after over 40 years active in unions I have never seen or met one, many of your kind have described them but where are they?? Conservatives always demonize them because they would like to see them destroyed. I will believe what my personal experiences has shown me.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear smiliee,

            You write: “Thanks Bob but after over 40 years active in unions I have never seen or met one, many of your kind have described them but where are they??” I provided you with articles and Youtube links. Click on them.

            You write: “Conservatives always demonize them because they would like to see them destroyed.” Conservatives “demonize” them because of their tactics and the result of same. See Detroit, et all.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • smilee

            Not my experience at all, and it is extensive but have seen some very honorable union persons described as thugs and worse and the tactics you cite are the exception not the rule,they have happened I admit but it is the exception and they are the ones that get press coverage but the vast majority never do. Have you ever voted in a union election ( I have voted in three) and all the harassment and other nasty tactics came from the company in all three elections, the unions treated us with full respect and they never knew us the company treated us like crap and we were their employees and they knew us, Their tactics were to scare the hell out of us if we voted union . Detroit had a variety of reasons for going down and not just because of the unions and they were no more responsible than many others including the companies. But from the conservatives blame it all just on the unions

          • Dave

            Smilee,
            Bob and his ilk would like nothing better to have Corp America at the halls of Congress lobbying for their interests alone… reductions in benefits, pay… and they justify it because we want to keep pace with what workers are getting in China or Guatemala or Siri Lanka.
            Bob doesn’t want to here about the bad trade policies that Corp America purchased with their money or the greed at the top that takes more and more every year.
            Bob Livingston, WAR and the rest are shills for big business that has no loyalty to the United States, the US Constitution or the people of this country. whether they admit it or not.

          • smilee

            So sad but so very true!! I still wonder if Bob is the former US representative during the Clinton era whom was set to become the speaker of the house and then abruptly resigned in shame. You notice he is the only writer on here that does not have a picture. If you do not hear from me again it is because raising this question has gotten me kicked off of here and then all can assume it is the former representative. Then again maybe it is not him and he will clear that up, I hope so! Can we see your picture Bob?

          • Dave

            I thought the same but he corrected me on that. He says that is not him. There is nothing that leads me to believe that he is untrue about that. But you never know….

          • smilee

            I would not have ever thought it either but his missing picture made me wonder, I do not know either but I would think he would know some would wonder being the same name.

          • Deerinwater

            Well hmm~ ? ~ so company thugs are just a product of my imagination playing trick on me?

            “Karen Gay Silkwood (February 19, 1946 – November 13, 1974) was an American chemical technician and labor union activist known for raising concerns about corporate practices related to health and safety of workers in a nuclear facility.”

            “After being hired at Kerr-McGee in 1972, Silkwood joined the local Oil, Chemical & Atomic Workers Union and took part in a strike at the plant. After the strike ended, she was elected to the union’s bargaining committee, the first woman to achieve that position at the Kerr-McGee plant.[1] She was assigned to investigate health and safety issues. She discovered what she believed to be numerous violations of health regulations, including exposure of workers to contamination, faulty respiratory equipment and improper storage of samples. She believed the lack of sufficient shower facilities could increase the risk of employee contamination.[4]”

            “On November 5, 1974, Silkwood performed a routine self-check and found that her body contained almost 400 times the legal limit for plutonium contamination. She was decontaminated at the plant and sent home with a testing kit to collect urine and feces for further analysis”

            “Questions arose over how Silkwood became contaminated over this three-day period.”

            “Kerr-McGee’s management said that Silkwood had contaminated herself in order to portray the company in a negative light. According to Richard Rashke’s book, The Killing of Karen Silkwood (1981/2000), security at the plant was so lax that workers could easily smuggle out finished plutonium pellets.[8] Rashke wrote that the soluble type of plutonium found in Silkwood’s body came from a production area to which she had not had access for four months. The pellets had since been stored in the vault of the facility”

            “Silkwood said she had assembled documentation for her claims, including company papers. She decided to go public with this evidence, and contacted David Burnham, a New York Times journalist, who was interested in her story. On November 13, 1974, Silkwood left a union meeting at the Hub Cafe in Crescent. Another attendee of that meeting later testified that Silkwood had a binder and a packet of documents with her at the cafe. Silkwood got into her car and headed alone for Oklahoma City, about 30 miles (48 km) away, to meet with Burnham, the New York Times reporter, and Steve Wodka, an official of her union’s national office.”

            “Later that evening, Silkwood’s body was found in her car, which had run off the road and struck a culvert. The car contained none of the documents she held in the Union meeting at the Hub cafe. She was pronounced dead at the scene in what was believed to be an accident. The trooper at the scene remembers that he found one or two tablets of the sedative methaqualone (Quaalude) in the car, and he remembers finding marijuana. The police report indicated that she fell asleep at the wheel. The coroner found 0.35 milligrams of methaqualone per 100 milliliters of blood at the time of her death — an amount almost twice the recommended dosage for inducing drowsiness.”

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Deerinwater,

            Is there a point buried in here somewhere?

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Deerinwater

            HA ! ~ yea! A thug is a thug ~ and will work for anybody for the right price. ~

            A Company, a Union, a disgruntled wife ~ They hire a thug, I hire two. They hire three and I hire five.

            They might have a degree in Law or something else~ more effective . ~ But any “heavy persuader” is a Thug in my book.

            What does it take to gain a sympathetic ear and thoughtful consideration among your sworn enemies and adversaries?

            An Dove and a Olive branch? ~ I don’t think so. It’s never worked for me. ~ You are left to bring the pain or find an exit.

          • smilee

            You do nor even understand current events much less understand what rewriting history, you been blinded by far right propaganda that brain washes many whom cannot think for themselves

          • Don 2

            There’s a big “L” in the middle of your forehead smilee, right below the dunce cap. Get a real job boy!

    • Motov

      If ohblowhard’scare is so good why is it no one in congress wants to be enrolled? Oh that’s right they voted themselves exempt and have a separate HC plan.

  • hungry4food

    Republican Party
    Rep Warns of Doomsday, Urges Ammo Stockpile

    http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/republican-party-rep-warns-of-doomsday-urges-ammo-stockpile/

    Republican Party Representative Matt Shea told a rally of
    patriots that they should stockpile weapons and ammunition in order to prepare
    for the “inevitable” occurrence of complete economic collapse in the United
    States.

  • hungry4food

    check this out ,

    it tells why we are Dying as a Nation of Independent self providing people
    that have lost their fundamental understanding of the meaning of what
    Independence represents !!!!!

    get the whole slide show to run so you need to go to this link
    for the whole show ….

    http://www.americanmadestores.com/

  • CommonSense4America

    Not voting to defund Obamacare because it won’t do any good is like saying “stand down” to the military on Benghazi. It wouldn’t do any good. I say at least TRY. People will know where you stand.
    It’s time for a third party!!!

  • CommonSense4America

    Pay attention to the way your Senators and Reps vote on this issue. REMEMBER this in 2014 & 2016.
    It’s time for a third party!!!

    • Charles Jetter

      will there be non-alcoholic beverages at the third party ???

      • CommonSense4America

        Not at my table.

  • Charles Jetter

    vote all those cino’s out in 2014

  • Charles Jetter

    vote all those cino’s out in 2014

  • Charles Jetter

    vote all those cino’s out in 2014

  • Guest

    So sayeth the shepherd (FAUX NEWS), and so sayeth the small minded flock. Please pull your head out of your FAUX hole and realize there are common sense people outside of FAUX. God damn guys. It is not about Dem. vs. Rep. Unless you are in the upper one percent of rich people, most of you are in the same boat as I am. When are we going to Unite, as Americans, and overcome all of these dividing factors in this Nation?

    Do any of you have crippled children that prevent you from working? Where is your heart? Have you lost all compassion for mankind? Even if they are a different color, or religion?
    I agree we need to do something about the parasites in this Nation! I think Obamacare could be a good thing for MANY people. No it’s not perfect and I’m sure there is a ton of “pork” in it. How many trillions have been wasted trying to repeal it? Tweek it and go with it!
    In my humble opinion, this is something that will benefit MANY AMERICANS and prevent Insurance CEO’s from bilking all of our money to a Cayman Island Romney hideout. What separates us from a third world country? Well… it should be “group preservation”. We are all Americans! Mice are good at self preservation. Are we men or mice? If you haven’t yet, please evolve! We need you!

    • Motov

      Anytime bureaucrats are added to “resolve” anything, it always gets worse, more expensive, and never lives up to its promise.
      Instead, we will learn news ways how patient neglect and abuse will happen when Government takes over.
      I fail to see how money will be saved when one adds the expensive bureaucrats into anything.

      • smilee

        Patient neglect and abuse now exists so Obamacare cannot create it, further it will provide health care to many more greatly reducing that abuse. There are increase in taxes and reduction in costs and the net effect is there will be savings and cost increases will be less. The same was said about Medicare C plans already in effect which Obamacare reduced to match expenditures in Medicare A & B and guess what, some of these premiums have going down. Profits in the private sector are far more costly than gov bureaucratic administration and that is why most countries have abandoned the private sector model and greatly reduced costs and in many countries increase outcomes so now 36 now rank higher than US which suggests your least sentence is not accurate.

        • Motov

          Private enterprises have always outperformed government run institutions.

          • smilee

            HOW??? Medicare operates on 8% overhead and Private companies on 25-40% and now under Obamacare by law they are limited to 15-20% and if the exceed that they have to refund the excess and checks went out this week. Does than really look like private enterprise outperformed government the stats do not support your allegations which are simply not true.

          • Motov

            Obozocare has not yet been fully implemented, I’ll have my proof once it does, because what they say and what actually happens are two different things. I know for a fact Obozo is incapable of telling the truth.

          • smilee

            WOE!! It is you whom is confused and incapable of teelling the truth

          • Motov

            Time will tell,….

          • Deerinwater

            Hahaha! ~hahe! ~ well, ~ it is in transition ~ as it should be. ~

            For now, it’s a general outline, ~ with many variables yet to be fully addressed at this point. ~

            Like a road map ~ a straight path is unlikely. ~` attempt to enjoy the trip for what any might see along the way ~ impossible to know.

          • Motov

            I’ll say it again, How can you expect lower costs when you introduce bureaucrats into the picture? You have to pay them, then they will create data bases (again more $$$) Everything will have to be approved before anything starts, go through mountains of red tape, It will effectively bog down the system, and people will start looking elsewhere because they will be tired of waiting. Government has always been notorious for hurry up and wait.
            And if by chance they say “no”,.you have a choice ,
            start over and hope or (illegally) seek help from someone else.
            No one in congress wants this monstrosity (for themselves) Anyone with a functional brain knows this is going to be worse than what it replaces.

          • Deerinwater

            ” Anyone with a functional brain knows this is going to be worse than what it
            replaces”

            Haha! ~ well? are you certain about that? I believe that bureaucrats and greedy bloodsuckers were already in it well before the Affordable Health Care Act was voted on ,carried and made into law.

            Employer/insurance based health care roots are “planted” in the collective, the need, demand and supply ` The only criteria seems to be finding employment with a company that offers it as benefit in their hiring package as “group coverage, discounted rates and being federally subsided. So the providing of health care has been “Socialized” long ago.

            Those people ~that currently enjoy “Status Quo” no doubt would agree with you, leaving the rest to think maybe your view “short sighted” and perhaps one of the more fortunate ones.

            As I , an independent business man found myself years ago denied any coverage at all ~ It was not being offered to me as an individual while I’m left to guess ~ no group wish to include me for whatever reasons they wished to proclaim.

            I was too small, my dollars too little and I did not matter. ~ and besides ~ I was 55, smoked, drank and still enjoy rock& roll & sex. I was not considered a candidate worthy consideration for health care insurance coverage and left to pay as I go ~ which I did.

            Now at 65, the only thing that changed is less hair, less sex and Obamacare. ~ and I can no longer be denied anymore.

            I would not expect everyone to see things as I do ~ but why should you?

            I do not want to die of “Pat Boone Disease” acute clean living ~ but live a full and rich life. ~ Like Teddy Roosevelt said , ~ “You can wear out or just rot out ” ~ take your pick, but your days a numbered either way.

          • Motov

            I know it will be worse because they are adding more bureaucrats to the mix. Government will completely take over. I certainly do not wish to be told how to care for my Parkinson’s Disease. (Diagnosed 1-16-03 And have been living with this since.) I volunteered myself to whatever clinical trial I’m qualified for (Lab Rat is what I consider my occupation these days) Like all people each and every medical problem is unique to the person and should be between the doctor and patient, and certainly not some bureaucrat, Insurance agent to discuss what your needs are and what they are willing or not willing to allow you to proceed as you see fit.

          • Deerinwater

            Well, I can certainly appreciate your fear and concerns of any change that might directly or indirectly affect your current treatment(s).

            So ~ are you telling us that government is not presently or remotely involved in the current care that you are receiving?

            My father had OCPD and Sugar Diabetes and a small; “host” of other things taking him down~ draining him and his “good days” less.

            While Reaching to adjust a fan, ~ he fell out of bed. ~

            A week later, with pains in his chest, we rush him to emergency care. ~ the fall out of bed had made him bleed internally, ~ the build up of this blood over the heart and left lung was causing the pain.

            He had surgery to get it removed ~. and never really regained his power or health after that 2 week stay in the hospital and required constant care from then on. . We all hope that this was temporary and that he might rally.

            After mother spending weeks, ~everyday and later into the evening for weeks at this Care facility with father, she needed rest herself ~ We (rest of the family) filled in to help with this the best we could.

            Mother had something that needed attention one morning and arrived late to fathers bedside ~ 9:30 and late. ~

            One of the health care provides had came in and gave father his scheduled insulin shots. ~ not bothering to consider where he had ate his breakfast or not. ~ I’m left to guess she didn’t even check his sugar level. ~

            Well ~ by 11 am he was in shock and rushed to the hospital where he like to have died then and there. ~ As it happened ~ he pulled though and in 5 days was released.

            We made arrangement where he could come home and die. ~This took 7 and half weeks as the body shuts down and he refused to eat ~while continuing to pass waste until there is little left. ~

            So I do understand your fears and concerns for any change my friend.

            But the world is in constant change, ~ and it won’t stop for you or I.

          • Motov

            Yes , I am aware of constant change, but lets face facts.
            Our government cannot continue on its current path of spending,… it is just that simple. Obozo care doesn’t
            save anyone money, in fact it will make the costs go higher. We need to make drastic cuts to the FEDERAL Government. Progressives and liberals want a massive government. Can’t you see we can no longer support our government because it is too big? True constitutional conservatives want to cut down our over bloated government before it gets so bad, our country will become Detroit, and even worse!

          • Deerinwater

            Surely you don’t believe people that proclaim they want to be an active player in government to make it less? ~ They will say anything to get elected you know?

            We had a governor’s race here in Texas some years back ~

            This one candidate ~ says, I ain’t no politician , vote for me.

            Well? ~ the job that he was soliciting for, required a politician and a good one. ~ So i did’t vote for him. ~ He might have made a good one, ~ but I doubt it with that attitude.

            A huge part of what politician do is spend money raised through revenues. ~ I have never noticed this effort to raise revenue let up regardless of who was in office with the exception of maybe W Bush. ~ But even so, ~that did not deter him for spending a train load of money. Spending Money that the Fed didn’t have to spend didn’t discourage him a bit.

            The argument today seems to be more a matter of “Who” spends the money and what they elect to spend it on.

            As far as the city Detroit’s problems ~ have you forget about American Airlines ? ~ Pensioners have met must the same demise. ~ ~ So it’s not a regional problem. ~ but a failure in financial institutions problem. Bad investment practices ~ Victims of Wall Street ~ and bankers. ~ The money didn’t just go away ~ it just ended up is someone more clever and more devious pockets.

            The lion always wait at the waterhole, places where wealth has been collected . Huge piles of money can be smelled from miles away along with fresh kill.

          • Robbie

            Oh really? What about all the companies that go bankrupt every year or that need massive government aid? That’s not good performance is it?

          • Motov

            Depends why they went belly-up, some go that way because of oppressive government policies. Others go because their competition does it better. But if you own your own business, I can bet you will do things more efficiently than a similar government run type can.

  • billybob

    You have the names of those who believe in this country and no Obamacare, now you can see those who have turned chicken and want to keep their jobs. Those are the one that should be thrown out of power. They don’t deserve to even be called congressmen and women.

  • Motov

    Even if you’re not Catholic….This is EYE opening
    When the Catholic Church was founded, there were no hospitals. Today, one out of five people in this country receive their medical care at a Catholic hospital.

    When the Catholic Church was founded, there were no schools. Today, the
    Catholic Church teaches 3 million students a day, in its more than 250
    Catholic Colleges and Universities, in its more than 1200 Catholic High Schools
    And its more than 5000 Catholic grade schools.

    Everyday, the Catholic Church feeds, clothes, shelters and educates more
    People than any other organization in the world.

    The new Obama Health Mandate could end all this and the tax payers would
    Have to make up the loss.

    Also, all Catholic adoption services would come to an end; a human disaster.

    There are more than 77 million Catholics in this country. It takes an estimated
    50 million Catholic votes to elect a president. I am asking all of you to go to the polls in 2014 and be united in replacing all Senators and Reps with someone who will respect the Catholic Church, all Christians, and all Religions with the exception of Islam.

    **Mr. President, you said**, “The USA is not a Christian Nation”. You are wrong
    We are a Christian Nation founded on Judeo-Christian values allowing all religions in America to Worship & Practice Freely. Something Islam will never do.

    Oh, by the way, on MUSLIM HERITAGE IN America …

    Have you ever been to a Muslim hospital?

    Have you heard a Muslim orchestra?

    Have you seen a Muslim band march in a parade?

    Have you witnessed a Muslim charity?

    Have you seen Muslims shaking hands with a Muslim Girl Scouts?

    Have you seen a Muslim Candy Striper?*

    *Have you ever seen a Muslim do anything that contributes positively to the
    American way of life?*

    *In God We Trust!

    BTW I’m not Catholic.

    • smilee

      It will only end if the Catholic establishments choose to end it, Obamacare has nothing to do with it other than providing them an excuse to do so faulty as that is.

      • Motov

        I seem to recall certain issues about birth control oblowhard wants catholics to foot the bill on, which directly violates the 1st amendment.

        • smilee

          Birth Control = freedom of speech?? I suppose if your big into oral sex, maybe, but wait, then birth control would not be necessary would it!

          • Motov

            No, you silly goose,.. the freedom of religion part, Catholic leaders have issues with birth control,…it’s their problem,…. not Obozo’s But when Obozo tells a religion to embrace something they have an issue with, kinda tells me we have a dick-tater!,…and it is the responsibility of the individual to get their own birth control instead of the government to provide it. This entitlement mentality needs to end.

          • smilee

            Catholic churches do not have to provide that in their employees insurance only in the businesses they own or run that serve the public and their employees are not required to be catholic and those they serve and even then they do not have to pay for it so freedom of religion does not apply/ I know many erroneously claim that but I’m sure they never will succeed in getting it declared unconstitutional as it is. These business run by the Catholic church are not religion per say but businesses and are treated as such so that leaves freedom of speech and i stand by my first post. Religion should never be allowed to be forced on any employee and you say they should be able to outside the church itself.

          • Don 2

            Coming from an oral sex expert such as yourself, we’ll take your word for it, eh smilee!

          • smilee

            You will never know that is for sure but ask your wife for her opinion!!

          • Don 2

            Well, I’ll have to ask the guy next door to you because I am not married! Har-dee-har-har-har…..sucker!

          • smilee

            That is not what she told me!!

    • KG
      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Any group of people can become dangerous using the Big Government that you advocate, KGB, to stifle other people.
        Especially already violent and pushy Unionists.

        • KG

          Especially Libertarians, who are actually closet Nazis – like Mr Livingstoned.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The usual nonsense that we have come to expect from Socialist Progressives.
            It’s hard to believe that even a Socialist Progressive would have the temerity to insult the owner of the website on which he is a guest, but I guess it shouldn’t surprise me.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear KG,

            I direct your attention to the comment policy. Please note that you are a serial violator. While I have suffered you presence for its entertainment value, my patience is waning.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Dave

            Once again, double standards are in play… Why don’t I ever see you come down on anyone that agrees with your agenda Bob? Afterall, some of the nastiest name callers are your biggest supporters. But of course its ok for you to call others names in the name of your brand of “infotainment” Fine example, you, WAR, John Meyers and the rest set.
            But please continue to pretend that you are somehow above the fray. You are a great conservative politician, get your followers to do the dirty work while you are “above it all”.
            The Conservative tactics are well known.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Dave,

            You write: “Once again, double standards are in play…” No double standard unhinged Dave. I only respond in kind. KG has not been banned. He’s just been cautioned. I remind you that you are free to disappear yourself if you are unhappy with the rules.

            You write: “The Conservative tactics are well known.” Your biggest problem is, despite instruction by me and others, you still do not grasp the concept that conservative and Republican are not synonymous. In fact, your still fail to grasp exactly what a conservative is.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Dave

            No Bob, that is your inference… You and your employees like to make ASSumptions that I think GOP and Conservatives are the same thing….But then again, you and your employees do have a severe tendency to lump anyone who disagrees with you or Mises and another follower of yours as a liberal, progressive, socialist, communist or Marxist. I will use your tactics against you.
            I do not need “instruction” or as I like to call it, endoctrination by you or any other conservative. It is people like you who have no clue what liberalism or progressivism are and what they have done to better this country. I am still wiating for a social conservative such as yourself to tell me what that ideology has done for this country to make it better. So far… big gooseeggs…
            Here is a clue for you:
            Just because I disagree about taxes or the function of Gov, doesn’t make me a fan of “big Gov”
            That is your conservative employees here lying because the last thing you want here is even handed viewpoints. You want to feed the beast that is conservative lowest common denominator hysteria and paranoia.
            But I guess you have to make money somehow… I guess it doesn’t matter to you that you are one of the dividers in this country. You are probably proud of that label.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Dave,

            You write: “Just because I disagree about taxes or the function of Gov, doesn’t make me a fan of ‘big Gov.'” Then name one government program you’d like to see ended.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Dave

            Lets expand past programs, into depts and funding
            Farm subsidies, the military cut to about 300B a year, Dept of Education reformed to act to set a minimum standard that all schools must adhere to and thats it, economic aid to countries that do not play by the rules, any trade agreement that hurts the workers of the United States. The Patriot Act. The FISA court that has no accountability to the people. The tax code reformed so that the wealthy pay their share. End of Capital Gains as long as people cannot hide their earnings in the company.
            For starters….
            I have plenty more… I hope this education is benefical to you.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Dave,

            So you admit that you are a fan of big government, especially as it concerns stealing the wealth of the producers to fund your pet projects.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Dave

            I admit to no such thing Bob…..
            When wealthy corp interests lobby Congress to put laws that benefit only them such as tax loopholes, regulatory relaxation and other laws that make money for those folks… What is that if not “theft” as you define it?
            Do you believe that Gov’s role is to just protect this country from outside threats and nothing else?

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Dave,

            You write: “I admit to no such thing Bob…..” You did in your previous comment.

            You write: “Do you believe that Gov’s role is to just protect this country from outside threats and nothing else?” I believe government’s role as enumerated in the Constitution, specifically in Article 1, Section 8, with the so-called “general welfare clause” limited as Madison intended. Beyond that, read the 10th Amendment.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Dave

            No I did not Bob… Show me where I say I like big Gov? I do believe you are fibbing again…
            Gov should only be big enough to protect this country from outside threats, make sure corporations and unions do not abuse their positions, regulate what can be done to the environment, workers rights, conditions etc. Negotiate trade agreements. Provide a safety net for the poor. Build and regulate certain infrastructure. Set education standards… Aid states when major disasters strike…
            It is not “theft” as you call it to collect taxes in the pursuit of these endevors… its called maintaining a society. Something you are clearly not aware of how societies function. You just can’t admit that times have changed since the late 1700’s Bob.
            Come and join us in the now… You want to make a positive difference? Then join me and pushing to end the greatest threat to America. Big money in politics…
            But you play games and blame Obama/Liberals/Progressives for what ails the world even though its been Reagan’s economic policies that have been the dominant policy since the 1980’s. You have your narrow agenda and a few people here eat up what you try and sell. And what you are selling is not fact based… its ideology driven.
            You have an outlet here with PLD but you insist on beling something akin to a carney huckster. Like CNN, you could have been something greater… Instead, you are right there with Fox news and Pro Wrestling.

          • Dave

            But I see that you believe that Gov should be out of the marketplace all together… So when firms look to establish wireless communications through the use of frequencies, the Gov should not be involved and it should be a free for all… Everyone just transmitts over each other because the Gov is out of the regulatory business. Yes, that makes complete sense…
            Oh and when China manipulates its currency to tip the trade balance in their favor… opps… Gov is out of trade so we just need to pay workers less to keep up… who cares if they live in poverty as long as the owners get theirs right Bob?
            The “free” market is moral, it is just… so without the Gov, Corp America would certainly do the right thing when it comes to the environment, working conditions, product safety right? I am sure you have a mises article that has proven this to be the case at some point in the industialized history of the United States.
            Who maintains the air grid Bob? United Airlines? All the airlines?
            How about the power grid Bob?
            So according to you… the attitude towards the poor and middle class is “let them eat cake” eh? Afterall Corp America has such a rich history of taking care of its poorest workers… Do you have a mises article to illustrate that as well?
            Small Gov certainly sounds nice to theorists such as you that are stuck along with mises in the mid to late 1800’s… As much as you would like to go back to a time where this country was agriculture based and a population of 3 million people. Today we are connected globally, the largest economy and our population has multiplied by a factor of 100.
            Its a different world today…You and your followers need to catch up.

          • Deerinwater

            Don’t be disrespectful to our host KG. ~ it’s unbecoming of a man that expects respect .

            Do you expect ~ respect? ~ I have always offered it to you in the past on many occasions.

      • Deerinwater

        Considering that it was ~ Catholic clergy that played a huge part in facilitating Nazis war criminals escape Europe and make their way down to Argentinian post WWII ~ I don’t doubt your charge ` but where it was actually love or something else , i can not say.

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    I had some Liberal Progressive Finches that were dining on my peaches. I didn’t mind when they were just nibbling on a few peaches, but like typical Liberal Progressives they got greedy and damaged too many peaches. So I covered the tree with bird-netting to keep them out. Now they get nothing, which is going to someday be the fate for the human Liberal Progressives that the Productive citizens must tolerate. Once the Leaders have consolidated their Power, thanks to Liberal Progressive voters, the useless Liberal Progressive Followers will no longer be needed and they will be thrown under the bus, as is the typical case in history.

    • 4lifeandfreedom

      Ever read ANIMAL FARM?

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        No, I haven’t. But someday maybe.

    • Deerinwater

      Birds and squirrels will do that~ before they even ripen, ~ Mother has another name for them. ~ “pesky raiders” holding no political affiliation but their own.

      I was noticing a man had covered his trees with a huge net. ~ We have to thin these “pesky raiders” from time to time in some effort to be humane about it while avoiding the attention of neighbors and city police.

      To produce anything,~ has always been work. This won’t change, even if every bird and every squirrel was a Libertarian.

  • Libertarian Soldier

    republicans suck

  • Dave

    Some interesting info…
    http://www.money.cnn.com/2013/08/06/news/economy/obamacare-premiums/index.html

    Get ready to shell out more money for individual health insurance under Obamacare … in some states, that is.

    While many residents in New York and California may see sizable decreases in their premiums, Americans in many places could face significant increases if they buy insurance through state-based exchanges next year.

    That’s because these people live in states where insurers were allowed to sell bare-bones plans and exclude the sick, which has kept costs down. Under Obamacare, insurers must offer a package of essential benefits — including maternity, mental health and medications — and must cover all who apply. But more comprehensive coverage may lead to more expensive insurance plans.

    Under Obamacare, all Americans must have insurance coverage starting in 2014 or face penalties of $95 or 1% of family income, whichever is greater. Enrollment in the exchanges begins October 1, with coverage kicking in in January. Plans will come in four tiers, ranging from bronze to platinum.

    Some lightly regulated states, including Indiana, Ohio, Florida and South Carolina, have recently released preliminary rate information highlighting steep price increases. Unlike the blue states of California and New York, these are Republican-led states that have strongly opposed the Affordable Care Act, as Obamacare is officially known.

    Comparing this year’s and next year’s plans isn’t easy because the structure of the plans is so different. Each state comes up with its own method.

    Behind the numbers in 3 key states. In Florida, for instance, officials constructed a hypothetical silver-level plan based on the offerings available today. Then they looked at how the cost of that plan compares to the average silver plan that will be available on the exchange. Florida found premiums will rise between 7.6% and 58.8%, depending on the insurer. The average increase would be 35%.

    The main driver of the premium increases is the Obamacare mandate that coverage be offered to everyone, said Kevin McCarty, Florida’s insurance commissioner. There are just short of a million enrollees in the individual market in Florida, while 3.8 million are uninsured. The state does not allow new entrants into a “high-risk pool,” which provides coverage to the sick.

    “People who are in their 50s with high blood pressure have no coverage options,” he said.

    Ohio, meanwhile, said there would be an average increase of 41% by comparing a trade association’s report of premiums for all plans available today with the average premium expected on the exchange.

    Indiana officials said prices would rise an average of 72%. But they were looking at the cost of providing care, not actual premiums.

    All of these rate hikes must still be reviewed by the federal government and do not take into account the fact that Americans with incomes up to $45,960 for an individual and $94,200 for a family of four will be eligible for federal subsidies.

    So why aren’t there such big premium increases in other states? New York, for example, already required that insurers provide comprehensive coverage to all who apply. Rates there could fall by half since the pool will expand to include many younger, healthier residents under Obamacare. But New York is more the exception than the rule, experts said.

    Rate hikes depend on age and gender. To give consumers a better idea of how premiums will change, CNNMoney took a look at the plans provided by one insurer: Physicians Health Plan of Northern Indiana.

    Our analysis found that 21-year-old men will pay a lot more for an exchange plan, but 42-year-old women and 62-year-old men will shell out less for a silver-level plan that comes with a $2,500 deductible and a roughly $25 co-pay for office visits.

    Under this scenario, a young man’s monthly rate will rise to $214 on the exchange next year, up 63% from today. The woman, however, will pay $284, a drop of more than 7%, while the older man will be charged $615, a nearly 6% decrease. This is because Obamacare requires that women pay the same amount as men and does not allow insurers to charge older participants more than three times the young.

    Physicians Health expects most enrollees to sign up for bronze or silver plans, which have lower monthly premiums but carry higher deductibles and co-pays, according to Jim Brunnemer, the insurer’s chief financial officer. Today, its members typically buy high deductible plans.

    While premiums may go up in these states, Obamacare advocates say people will receive more comprehensive coverage. Also, the law limits the amount people have to pay out-of-pocket for deductibles and co-pays to $6,350 in 2014.

    “A lot of people will get more for their money,” said Sarah Lueck, senior policy analyst for the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. “Even people paying a higher rate will benefit. It will be a big change in most states.”

  • 4lifeandfreedom

    Really no surprise here, when you have so many who campaign to “represent the people of their district,” but who inevitably fall in line with “I must get re-elected.”
    Susan Collins is in the Bangor Daily News often now, spewing against Obamacare, yet why did she vote for it in the first place? Plastic-face Pelosi said so, I guess, so she is the bully Margaret of “Dennis the Menace,” who needs someone to stand up against her every now and then appearance during which she gives RINO’s and CINO’s a tongue lashing!

  • JONDO

    A Republican is nothing but a Democrat in disguise doing there dirty work in hiding, There not for the people either, There for themselves and they will throw anyone under the bus to do it,There in there to get rich and there getting away with it.

  • MaxEffectUSA

    I detest Obamacare and would like to see it declared “null and void” immediately. The Republicans have voted 40 times to de-fund Obamacare and succeeded, only to be stopped in the Senate every time. I cannot see what is going to make it any different this time. If the government shuts down because of this there is a chance, as in the past episodes of govt shut down, that the public blames Republicans and takes it out in the 2014 elections. I don’t think we’d lose the House but we might not gain control of the Senate, leaving us in the same position we’re in now again. Why take the chance now by possibly taking the blame for govt shut down again. We, at this time, stand a good chance of winning the Senate and being able to get rid of Obamacare and virtually shut down Obama for the rest of his term. We have far too many uninformed voters to take the chance.

    • Protonius

      I agree that Obamacare (but with the exception of some provisions) is, overall, a terrible law for this country. But at the same time, I disagree with your recommended strategy re the Republicans.

      IMO:

      If, hypothetically, a Nazi, or a Stalinist, or a Maoist, for example, were to come to power in the White House and were to control the majority in the Senate, and were to be pushing for the implementation of a system that specifically and clearly would activate and powerfully impel the slow (or not-so-slow) destruction of the rights, of the freedoms, and even the survival of a major segment, of the nation’s population, would you STILL recommend that the minority-party in the House — i.e., the Republicans — should “give in” to this push, in order to HYPOTHETICALLY be able to “escape the blame” for OPPOSING this terrible plan and to “remain popular enough” to be elected in the next election?

      Do you really contend (apparently as some influential House Republicans do) that if the Republicans now “give up the fight” against the implementation of Obamacare and allow it — unopposed — to go into effect, they WON’T be held accountable at election-time FOR HAVING INTENTIONALLY ALLOWED this monstrously-destructive law to go into effect?

      In my view, there is something to be said about “tactics” and “strategy”, but those qualities must be linked to goals — and the choice of goals must be based upon the choice of, and relative importance of, priorities. And ALL must be based upon, and each directly linked to, the overridingly important qualities of INTEGRITY and COURAGE.

      Where is there any sense of INTEGRITY or COURAGE in a plan that — fallaciously, in my view — puts the goal of “getting elected” ahead of “fighting for the principles that you were already elected to protect and defend”?

      Then-Senator John F. Kennedy wrote about these qualities in his book PROFILES IN COURAGE. I wonder if any of those persons mentioned above — including some of the Republicans (and Democrats) in Congress — have read or even heard of this book, or remember — and CARE about — what INTEGRITY and COURAGE are supposed to be all about.

      • Katie

        Actually, they put the goal of getting “REELECTED” ahead of EVERYTHING.

        If I was able to bold and underline EVERYTHING, I would!

      • MaxEffectUSA

        As I see it there’s no way to stop implementation without the Senates approval or possibly massive riots in the streets. I’ve heard from one questionable source , if Boehner did have enough fortitude to shut down the government, there are no backup funds.
        You, very possibly, would have riots. The slow implementation of the left, loss of freedom and rights have been going on since the 1960’s. It’s increasing in speed with the “dumbing down” of American’s, by public education and Liberal professors in colleges. Let’s not forget disintegration of families and Christianity.

  • joe1cr

    We the people have no representation in Washington D.C.
    Our country is going to hell in a hand basket and we do not
    know who is really carring the said basket.

  • Georgia

    Wake up congress. Defund Obamacare. Not good for the country and people. If it’s so good why did you exempt your self???

  • Sylvia Flores

    That’s what they said about medicare. Obamacare–I love it and want some more of it!

  • Deerinwater

    The 13th amendment was very unpopular in some circles but it was pasted by the narrowest of margins. And today, many would still like to see it resented.

    The affordable health care act is not a fixall ~ and it will create a new set of problems for some people. ~ The many people that could not afford health care coverage, still can’t.

    Employers that did not offer a major medical plan with employment ,still don’t.

    Since just paying people more or providing health care free is seen as unacceptable ~
    What might you suggest?

    Medical insurance in it’s self , is actually just a form of socialized medicine. So we have already accepted the title and now just argue over price. .