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Republicans In California Disagree About Backing Immigration Ballot Measure

December 9, 2010 by  

Republicans in California disagree about backing immigration ballot measureCalifornia Republicans are split about a potential ballot measure that would enforce Arizona-like immigration laws.

According to The Los Angeles Times, some conservatives believe an effort to adopt strict anti-illegal-immigration policies may create a chasm between the GOP and Latinos, which are the fastest-growing segment of California's electorate. Voters in the Golden State bucked national trends in the midterm elections by siding with Democratic candidates.

On the other hand, some Republican strategists in California believe that an uncertain stance on immigration will hurt the party in the long run.

"That to me is the bigger problem," Mike Spence, a conservative activist, told the news provider. "I don't see how we can be damaged more than we already are."

The California proposal, known as the Support Federal Immigration Law Act, needs more than 400,000 signatures by April 21, 2011 in order to qualify for the 2012 ballot.

Meanwhile, the group Californians for Population Stabilization (CAPS) has launched a TV campaign that advocates for reduced levels of legal immigration and temporary worker permits until the state's unemployment rate improves. The advertisements claim that the Federal government continues to allow legal immigrants and temporary workers into California despite unemployment rates that require the state to borrow $40 million per day to pay unemployment benefits. 

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  • Mick

    California is a total lefty State, the GOP don’t have much to lose in this place,The Arizona-like immigration laws could bring a few folks out of their coma.
    The republicans have to stop compromising their moral values by rejecting the proposes good laws to cater to some special ethnics groups just to get their votes, that the Democrat’s motto.

    • herman richardson


    • http://none sean moor


  • Tom

    about quote “On the other hand, some Republican strategists in California believe that an uncertain stance on immigration will hurt the party in the long run”…………… BULL… This is our countries problem now the Dem and Rep are too worried about the party that they forgot to in inforce the laws already on the books for immigration. We need people in goverment that cares about the American people not the party !!!

    • Mick

      Tom,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The way california has been acting over the past few decades one could wonder if they care anything about our Country….

      • Warrior

        Feds are already sending them boatloads of money to make up for THEIR sins. Unfortunately it won’t be enough. The “Blue” areas on the map can never make up the impending shortfalls they “caused” themselves with non other then — Gold Plated Pension Obligations. Let’s see now, how do we camouflage this pig? Hey, Ben can just buy lots of bonds from those states. Brilliant!

        • Warrior

          No wait, that may be too hard to explain. How about uncle scam just start purchasing property in those states? With all the businesses exiting Calf and ILL there will be lots of property available. Hey, we can just say we need more area for wind farms and national parks. Yes, by golly, this may do it!

  • Vern

    What a socialist slanted article. they make it sound as if Arizona was doing something wrong and has written their own laws . when in fact Arizona is doing nothing more than trying to inforce federal laws on immigration that our socialist government refuses to uphold. it makes me wonder if any of our elected liars and thieves in washington has ever read the constitution.

    • castaway

      Vern, I think you have the answer in your head to your last statement. THe question I have, is when will the American people say “we have had enough”, and then change what is happening to this country. We are watching it slide into a huge cravas, that is slowly closing. We need to act, or we are doomed!

      • 45caliber

        When we do act, some judge seems to always rule that what we are trying to do is against the Constitution.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Correction, some liberal socialist judge!!!

          • Agent Orange

            Then IMPEACH THE JUDGES!!!

  • castaway

    None of this is surprising news to me. Just another day at the office.I have been watching this same crap for over 40 years, and it will not change, until we the people say “this is it”,we have had enough,and you politicians are done. At that point we remove the existing government and install a government by the people, and for the people with the constitution, and bill of rights as our guide.

    I believe it is in the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution, where it tells us that if the current form of government is not doing its job, we can and are obligated to replace it. Check it out! There is really not much time to get this done. Soon all your rights will be gone and you will be living in a communist regime.

    • oldtimeyman

      The states established the Federal Government to act as the agent for the states. Several specific limitations were placed on the fedgov. The 10th Amendment gave the states power to nullify any actions taken by fedgov that the state felt overstepped the fedgov’s constitutional bounds. The only way the fedgov could legally get around a nullification was to make the disputed federal action part of a constitutional amendment.

      About 30 years before the Civil War, the fedgov placed tariffs on manufactured goods that threatened the southern and some western states and led to a “Nullification Crisis.”

      The fedgov caved and avoided the crisis at that time. But later, the South again rebelled at what it felt were unconstitutional steps taken by the north and seceded from the Union.

      Many people feel the civil war was fought over slavery, but slavery was only one facet. The war was actually fought over the states right to challenge the fedgov and establish another form of government, i.e.: the Confederate States of America.

      We are currently facing other issues that could lead to another nullification crisis. Namely: The Dream Act, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, massive federal spending and exhorbitant taxation, just to name a few.

      Several states have already gone on record on 10th Amendment grounds protesting gun controls, financial issues including our continued participation in the fed and wanting the U.S. back on the gold standard.

      Illegal immigration could lead to several states either seceding or taking a strong nullification stance including Texas, Arizona and California. I believe Alaska could enter that fight simply on federal control over the states natural resources such as drilling for oil and the fedgov seizure of millions of acres for national parks and denying Alaska residents use of their own state property. All told, about 20 states are in opposition to some or all of Hussein Obama’s socialist schemes and his grandiose seizure of power.

      I believe a revolution is brewing and the evidence is all around us. Check into it.

      • http://none Mike

        Oldtimeyman, We are facing much of the same types of laws and taxations that the colonies were during the time of the american revolution. These laws and taxes were the very reason the constitution was written.

        And now do we think either party is useing the constitutio in their battles against these laws? No its just more of the same under a diffrent banner. Mike L,

        • Agent Orange

          There’s one crucial difference here: there weren’t any elections before 1776!

  • marvin

    californakaters pot smokers gay lovers 50% illegals, pelosie, boxer and this is the great state of california 20 billion in the red ,and are federal goverment let them set the standard for the rest of us all i can say is god help us

  • castaway

    Vern excuse my poor spelling. I meant “CREVASSE”

  • Mick

    castaway says:
    December 9, 2010 at 8:11 am
    None of this is surprising news to me. Just another day at the office.I have been watching this same crap for over 40 years, and it will not change, until we the people say “this is it”,we have had enough,and you politicians are done. At that point we remove the existing government and install a government by the people, and for the people with the constitution, and bill of rights as our guide.

    I believe it is in the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution, where it tells us that if the current form of government is not doing its job, we can and are obligated to replace it. Check it out! There is really not much time to get this done. Soon all your rights will be gone and you will be living in a communist regime.

    castaway …..We’re well on our way to become a communist country .if we don’t stop following the european motto we’re cooked……….

    • 45caliber

      But how can our politicians become known as dukes and lords if they DON’T follow the European model? And look at poor Michelle. She would never be able to add “Queen” to her name!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        she’s already royalty!! She’s a royal pain in the azz!!! not to mention the billfold!!

        • http://naver sook young

          As an American woman, I don’t think she has set anything of a good example to follow. I wonder if she’s an American or if she was born here. Thank you.

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          • http://?? Joe H.

            sook young,
            you may have a very valid point there!!!

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you Joe H. I don’t really know how to start anything like this, but I’ll try searching the internet for answers. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

  • marvin

    my take on hispanic people from mexico like it or not 80 % have their hand out for free bees that dembos will give them,most mexican that are here illegally are uneducated and the dembocrats cater to them free food free healt care free school free housing, judes took a few pieces of silver to betray jesus the dims give the mexican a big pieces of silver to vote for them and betray the legal american people,the mexican people here will vote dembocrat by a 80% margin like it or not,the only way to stop it is arrest detain deport all illegals

    • 45caliber

      I can sort of see bringing in legal immigrants that are skilled and/or educated. But we don’t. In fact, 95%+ are unskilled and uneducated. And I’m talking of LEGAL immigrants! We bring in about 500,000 legal Vietnamese a year from refugee camps in places like Tailand – and they have more born there every year than we bring in. So many of them go on welfare that the government has stopped even trying to see if they have a job. They bring them over, give them an apartment with two months rent paid, and then start sending welfare checks automatically. Several cities in California have so many of these not paying taxes that they have more on welfare than anything else in the city.

      So why do we also need illegal immigrants here?

  • jimmy joe

    The Ultimate Goal Of The Lawless/Illegal Immigrant Crowd Proves Democrats Seek America’s Demise By propping Up As many haters of America as possible.Stacking thevoting booths with Enemies Of America Against Patriotic Supporters Of The Original Intent Of Our Founders Hope For America.Just look At Their Obsessions To Annoint All Radical Groups From Larasa To C.AI.R.Jimmy Joe/”The Liarfryer”

  • marvin

    on the dream act hbo had a documentery on a few mt back about a rail road train in mexico an engine and box cars ever car was full of young mexican children from age 12 to 18 no adults [in the cars on top of cars any place they could get]all head here the united states and the mexican goverment was helping them get here ,so much for come here with their mom and dads, great bunch of people

    • 45caliber

      One note on that. Most of their parents are already here. They bring the kids in when school starts here and then sends them back to Mexico when school is out so that grandma in Mexico can keep up with them until school starts again.

      It is legal for children to come across the border with families who live in Mexico and work in cities along the border. These people will come across with six-ten kids, turn them over to the kids’ real parents on this side, and go back a hundred dollars or so richer.

  • http://com i41

    Republican in Queeraforina act just like a rinos, soft pedal around this illegals and never ending taxes. Best thing to do is cut the state in half and herd all the illegals and queers south. The new name will be called quemicans, and they all eat mexers. All state s are going to have to enforce harscher illegal fines on employers and faster ship out times. Democrats need to be reconized as the party of only enforcing laws that speed the destruction of the USA. They just proved their acceptance of fraud, only common citizens pay fines and elitist slide on corruption, with the handling of Rangel. Cunningham went to jail under way less money involvement. Of course he wasn’t greasy enough and Cunningham isn’t a majority genitic inhabitors type behind bars, He got a pass because, he has a genetic flaw. Tuna Charley wrote the tax laws everyone else has to abide by, but if you have the clepto genes and steal funds and defraud the country, you just cann’t help yourself it is in your genes.

  • FlaJim

    This whole issue is silly. California already has a similar law on the books. It’s not enforced.

    • mickey

      I know but until they don’t get any federal funds they will continue to ignore it.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy 131

    Heaven forbid that Republicans stand up for conservative principles and philosophies if they might lose the support of those who promote breaking our laws and which group also partially consists of those same law breakers. This is what the Tea Party is about, stand up and be counted for what you believe and quit compromising our values to get and stay elected. At least this can be used as a litmus test as to who to support in the 2012 elections, and then we can get rid of some more RINOs. California is going broke, or is already, because of these policies and they think that the federal government is going to come to their rescue while they continue these bankrupt policies. They need to wake up and understand that the federal government is also broke and can’t stop itself from going bankrupt, let alone another state. And if they could save California, they would set a precedent of having to save New York and all the other Democraticly controlled states that are on the verge of bankruptcy too. Why is it that no Republican controlled states are in danger of going bankrupt, does their philosophies and policies work that much better than the Democrats?

  • Flip one over

    I am very tired of being called a racis for thinking about every thing that goes against the progressives in this doomed country. They don’t want to remember why and how this country came to be the greatest experiment know to mankind. When we started, we needed good hard working folk that were willing to come here and become true Americans, by that I mean they gave up all the old ways and accepted our ways and were happy to do it. They were and are good people who were givers and not takers, Well now is a different time in this experiment, We no longer need large influxes of people, We need to change how we conduct business, We can no longer afford to take in any more takers, Which is what many are wanting to do, They actually come to the USA to retire on all the free bees that the progressives chant on and on about “This is what this country is about” What is happing in California is what is going to happen across the country, little by little the takers will out number the givers, as in California, Then that is all she wrote. The muslems, the progressives, the commies, they all know how to play the givers, There is an old saying that rings true through out the world, “people will lick the boots that kick them and bite the hand that feeds them” and I am tired, tired I say of being bit every time I turn and around.
    I say NO to the takes and may God bless the givers and this great country.

    • http://yahoo rob

      Flip One Over,
      If you look and listen closely, the ones that pull the race card or call others racist, do not have the ammunition to counter the FACTS regarding “ILLEGAL” immigration to this country. Their arguements are weak. Get them to argue the affects and effects on our country. It won’t happen. When all else fails “PULL the RACECARD”. Refuse to listen to this weak response…
      Pull the “FACTS” card.

  • 45caliber

    My goodness!! I didn’t know that California actually had any Republicans!! At best, they are Lite Dems because they certainly don’t act as if they are conservatives!

  • Albert J. Benson

    It would seem that the people who have been putting blame on the
    illegals have really sold a bill of goods. There are things wrong with
    California but for the most part, not correcting the really bad stuff
    would be a waste of time. We have people who believe that marijuana is
    the answer to every problem, whether health or good times. We have a
    war going on in Mexico where the cartels are shipping POT (marijuana)
    into this country by the ton, and other drugs a lot harder such as
    heroin, people are buying the stuff and smoking it and then driving under the influence (DUI). Now this is pretty serious stuff, folks. Not like having some poor people sneaking across the border to find work, and work they do. Here we have a lot of rhetoric being expended by most of the commentors, when they could be finding the real serious problems, but then the illegals make a ‘foil’ for them to yell about, making them feel good that they said something they thought was important.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      read this and see if you comprehend. I L L E G A L!!!!!

    • http://naver samurai

      We are a nation of laws and do not reward law breakers. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • chuckb

    a benson

    nobody has complained about mexican or central american workers coming in to this country to work as long as they do it legally. we have people coming into this country by the millions “illegally” the democrats and some republicans have sold us out by turning their head and allowing the illegals to vote illegally, want do you think got harry reid re-elected, corrupt unions and illegals. the illegals have over taxed our schools, hospitals and welfare system, california being a prime example and yet the bleeding hearts cry out compassionately this is not the problem. it is the problem, the illegals will always support the socialist, they are the ones promising them something for nothing. california is in ruins due to the democratic party reign and now they have re-electeed one of the bums that started them down hill years ago. the only way out of this mess is to remove the power structure built by the democrats and that may have to be done by force, we have too many illegals voting.

  • Blevit

    As an ex-S. Californian I witnessed the closing of all but one trama center due directly to ILLEGALS using our medical ethics,watched the
    education system colapse due to trying to educate ILLEGALS children,
    that have no incentive to learn, everthing is printed in their language,the contant ballooning of the WELLFARE debt. Compound this thuout America,do you honestly believe that these SELF serving narrow
    minded lying cheats do not see/know this? What incentive to these cowards to enforce our laws is there to them,after all, having their cushy jobs to us with one excuse after another(every one lies), the real truth comes out they would sell their very soul for ILLEGALS VOTE!

  • Philip C.

    Remember when Dick Cheney said, in reference to Colin Powell, “is he still a Republican?”

    And to that, I add, “Is California still part of the U.S?” Thought they ceded it back to Mexico a long time ago.

  • Stan Smith

    I’m new to this Group! I’m not a conservative or Liberal, neither Dem or Rep! I may be Mexican I hate Liberals with a passion The use my people as sheep! I consider Liberals racists! Enough with that! The question is Why people from other countries who just became legal US citizen or living/staying in the US legally so why The foreigners have not protested demanding stop catering to the mexicans and others further south from getting special treatment and a free pass! That they demand The mexican get in line like everyone else! If the owner of this site reading this post go ask the people of other countries a poll like question, As I said on this post!

  • http://com i41

    I have worked with any illegal Mexicans, who when the jobs were done headed back home, no problems. It is the 2 generation and on that are the biggest sorry a$$ed idoits. They pick up the punka$$ed sorry pukes like the blacks and wanna be gangsters. These pukes which are what ever color organisms that should be disposed of or permantly neutored. Every generation it gets worse for wanting hands outs and freebies. I notice with Nancy’s 21 million plus and Bobwa bloxer millions why these pukes aren’t paying more taxes, as well as Onumnutts and his riding mare Michelle Belle, both have millions.

  • GaryTraditionalUltraConservative

    Until recently I have been shopping for a new house here in Ventura County here in Southern California(AKA The Third World People’s Socialist/Communist Democratic Banana Republic Of Mexifornia) and now that a new Ultra Liberal Leftist Democrat Socialist/Communist Dominated and Controlled California State Legislature, a New Ultra Liberal Leftist Democrat Socialist/Communist California State Governor Jerry Nut Case Brown and a new simple 51% majority vote by the now Democratically Controlled Socialist/Communist Multi-Culturalist Third World California State Legislature that will simply ignore, trample on and overrun the entire Republican voters in California and all of their Republican California State Legislature Representatives to 100% total irrelevance and impotence, I have decided to leave California forever and begin shopping for a new house in Henderson Nevada in Clark County Nevada and other nearby communities in Southern Nevada such as those communities in Lincoln County Nevada and in Nye County Nevada, however, I have told our 42 full time employees of our small high tech electronics/controls/LASER/optics engineering company, that we are also moving the entire business, LOCK, STOCK AND BARREL!, out of California forever and into the welcoming arms of Henderson Nevada in Clark County Nevada and that Democrat California State Governor Jerry Brown, Democrat California State Lieutenant Governor Gavin Newsom and the entire Democratically dominated and controlled California State Legislature along with both Democrat U.S. Senators Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer CAN ALL KISS ALL OF OUR COLLECTIVE A…….. GOODBYE FROM THE LATE GREAT AND PATHETIC BANKRUPT STATE OF CALIFORNIA!!! My family and myself and as many of our employees who can make the permanent move to Henderson Nevada in Clark County Nevada are all collectively voting together in 100% total unity with our feet and we are not the first to do so and we will definitely not be the last to permanently leave the state of California forever. I am really not very attracted at all to moving to, to living in and to relocating our entire business to Southern Nevada, however, any other state in the Union, including the southern part of Nevada, is now much better to be living in and is now much better to be operating any type of business in, than it is to be living in and operating any type of business anywhere in the late great state of California that is now no longer a great state but instead has become a pathetic ugly human refuse dump for all of Mexico’s poorest and most poverty stricken illiterate Mexican Citizens Of Mexico. Residents of California are now paying for the ENTIRE PUBLIC WELFARE of much or most of the Poorest Citizens Of Mexico who are ILLEGALLY here in California and many or most of Mexico’s own school age children(AKA ANCHOR BABIES, NOT TO BE CONFUSED AS AND NOT TO BE ERRONEOUSLY DEFINED AS AND NOT TO BE ERRONEOUSLY LABELED AS U.S. CITIZENS, BECAUSE ALL ANCHOR BABIES ARE ALL BORN TO THEIR SOVEREIGN MEXICAN CITIZEN PARENTS AND ALL ANCHOR BABIES ARE ALL UNDER THE OFFICIAL AND LEGAL JURISDICTION OF THEIR SOVEREIGN MEXICAN CITIZEN PARENTS WHO ARE ALL UNDER THE OFFICIAL SOVEREIGN AND OFFICIAL LEGAL JURISDICTION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF MEXICO AND NOT UNDER ANY JURISDICTION OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) here in the state of California. Too say it bluntly, residents of California are now paying taxes to California, paying taxes to the U.S. Federal Government and also residents of California are paying taxes to Mexico in proxy! I will say it again. ALL RESIDENTS OF CALIFORNIA ARE PAYING TAXES TO THE GOVERNMENT OF MEXICO IN PROXY BY PAYING TAXES TO PROVIDE FOR THE ENTIRE PUBLIC WELFARE OF ALL MEXICAN CITIZENS OF MEXICO WHO ARE ILLEGALLY PRESENT WITHIN THE SOVEREIGN BOREDERS OF THE UNITED STATES IN VIOLATION OF ALL U.S. FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS AND IN VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AND ALL MEXICAN ANCHOR BABIES OF ALL ILLEGAL ALIEN MEXICAN CITIZEN PARENTS WHO ARE ALL UNDER THE OFFICIAL SOVEREIGN AND OFFICIAL LEGAL JURISDICTION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF MEXICO AND NOT UNDER ANY JURISDICTION OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!! We have an Aunt who is sick of living in San Faggcisco California and she will be moving with us to Clark County Nevada in the very near future or as soon as possible. Compared to California(AKA Mexifornia), the state of Nevada looks like the so called “Paradise”! Thank God for that very wonderful and very merciful avenue of escape out of California that is known as the U.S. Federal Interstate Highway System!!! In a way, leaving the state of California is very much like jumping off the S.S. Titanic and swimming to the nearest life boat to be rescued as the Titanic is slowly and surely sinking below the surface of the North Atlantic Ocean deep into the depths of the abyss!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      contact the city of Eastlake Ohio! They will welcome you with open arms!!!!

      • GaryTraditionalUltraConservative

        Thank you. I’m sure Ohio would like to host and sponsor our company and many other businesses in the state of Ohio! Ohio is a great state. I am open to any and all suggestions for evacuating the sinking taxation without representation, without responsibility and without accountability slave ship called California and relocating to another state. Henderson Nevada in Clark County Nevada may only be a small temporary stepping stone for two or three years to another state such as Oklahoma, Idaho, Utah, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Pennsylvannia, Tennesse, Kentucky, etc., and other prospective states. Of course not all those states, only one of those states to set up shop permanently.

        • mickey

          Ii’m curious as to why you chose Nevada instead of states in the mid-west or AZ. Nevada has Reid and is a full backer of debt programs, including illegals.

          • GaryTraditionalUltraConservative

            Simple Logistics and the nearest Life boat. To make the relocation change easier for all employees especially for those employees who will have the most difficulty to relocate. More Traditional Conservative Republicans leave California to relocate to Nevada for real estate opportunities, especially commercial real estate, rather than to shop for and buy a permanent house residence. Harry Reid will be defanged and muzzled soon enough in the not too distant future. Harry Reid’s bite will soon be much less than his bark.

    • chuckb


      you hit it right on the head, california is nothing more than a suburb of mexico run by the same mentality. we should annex this state back to mexico. i shut my business down some years ago. california’s population is out of control and so is it’s government. i was not a great fan of arnolds, however, to be fair he tried to do most of the right things, the liberals have too much power and i doubt if this state can ever come back, especially under ms jerry brown. this state is a democratic show case, lenin would be proud.

  • chuckb

    this started back during the johnson heyday of the great society, he practically destroyed the black race with welfare, they were paying welfare mothers a monthly stipend for every little chocolate drop and the more they had the better life was. cbs ran a documentary on this problem, they interviewed a mother who had seventeen children at 500.00 a month per head. some of these children were having babies of their own and drawing money from welfare, now this was shown back in the eighties and there are millions now still caught up in this situation. you add the illegal invasion and welfare babies to the mix and you can see how we have nearly destroyed this society. the demo liberals are living off this vote. no offense to anyone just stating facts.

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    Any State that wants to bankrupt itself by pandering to illegal wet-backs should not recieve a penny of Federal funds. Any Federal Gvt. that over-rides or ignores it’s Constitutional duties should not recieve a penny from the States or their citizens.

  • Robert Ryan

    If the federal government refuses to enfroce fedeeral immgration laws then I see nothing wrong with individual states taking measures to insure the safety of their borders.

    • mickey

      I fully agree with this.

  • mickey

    I’m thinking we may be fighting this the wrong way. We seem to rant (and I really do fax and call my reps) but it seems CA and NY really want all of this–and of course our dollars to support it.

    Maybe, and I did, we should write our reps and ask how we can get on the band wagon. Fair is fair. If the southern countries can use human trafficking to bring in illegals, just how do we get the same advantage to bring in illegals of our choice. Just what are the guidelines and the laws (absolving us of crime)? Do we need to get a catchy name like La Raza to start the process or what? And do we get the same unlimited amount of illegals, say from France, as does La Raza?

    What are the minority limits? Where do we get the stats on which countries are minority here in the US.

    If we can’t beat them, then it is time to get in front of the parade and create our own “illegal” group. BTW, Senator, how do we get federal funds for all this?

    Since all of this would represent a new classification of minority (not based on latin americans), and not current descendants of existing Americans, we surely should be able to get equal representation of, say, 20-60 million worldwide illegals without the punishing label of “racist”.


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