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Republicans Boycott Committee Vote On Climate Bill

November 13, 2009 by  

Republicans boycott committee vote on climate billThe Senate Environment and Public Works Committee passed the Clean Energy Jobs for American Power Act on Nov. 5th in a vote that its Republican members all but boycotted.

The only Republican that showed up to explain the reasons for their absence was Senator George Voinovich of Ohio. The GOP has demanded a deeper analysis than the one provided by the Environmental Protection Agency in order, Voinovich said, "to have the best information available as we debate and amend the bill that will have consequences for every person in the country."

Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer of California, one of the bill’s sponsors, has been criticized by the Republicans for moving ahead with the vote. But supporters such as activists from the Sierra Club called the legislation "an important step toward a clean energy economy," that will make the U.S. "more energy independent [and create] new jobs with safer, cleaner energy sources."

The bill, which is co-sponsored by Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, proposes to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20 percent from 2005 levels by 2020, and by 83 percent by 2050. It also offers tradable permits to polluters that would ease their transition away from fossil fuels.

According to media reports, opponents of the bill are looking for a "Plan B" that would include more incentives for nuclear power, renewable fuels and domestic drilling to win support of moderate Democrats and Republicans.

GOP members have also said the Democrats’ proposal will impose a massive energy tax on consumers and businesses alike.
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  • DaveH

    It is important to recognize that the alternative energies being forced upon the public in this bill are not cost effective. If they were the public would freely embrace them.
    This bill is all about the Liberals taking away our freedom of choice with their grand schemes – damn the cost. And many Big Companies are going to profit mightily from this bill at the citizens expense. I thought Liberals didn’t like Big Companies?

    • Robert

      Wall Street is salivating. They already have convened meetings when Obama was elected and know exactly how to profit from this legislation. Those little stinkers. Nothing gets past them.

    • JeffH

      Barbara Boxer is headed for the “dumpster” in California! She is finished, and so is Pelosi and Feinstein. As a trio, they have been instrmental in supporting the eco environmentalists to help destroy California’s industrial base to the point of no return. Big and small businesses will not invest in California because of overegulation, plain and simple. All three are in Washington DC pushing for the same results, and God Darn thier opposition and thier constituents.

      • JeffH

        Oh, I forgot to mention that they are destroying agricultural in the central valley hiding behind the Delta Smelt.

  • mariav

    You are so right, Dave. All of these monster bills such as this one and health care, are a way for Liberals to take control of our money and, in the process, control every move we make in our personal lives.
    When are people going to wake up!!!!!They tell us they are going to only tax the rich, but we know that we are all being taxed to death, and that the rich will continue to live they way they want and the rest of us will be left standing outside of our homes and businesses and saying “we used to own that home or business.”

    • Shirley Solem

      We are awake, as is much of America, and want what is good for this Country. We are sickened at the pit the present administration is leading our Counry in to. We are frustrated by our inability to make a differnce.
      Phone calls and letters don’t appear to work. We are seniors without large resources to throw at the problem.

      • JeffH

        I them and send emails every week to Boxer, Feinstein and Pelosi. Pelosi doesn’t even acknowledge them, the other two send generic electronic responses. It is obvious that Pelosi has insulated herself from reality, period. Change is a comin’.

  • DaveH

    This is so typical of our Liberal Leaders:
    http://community2.myfoxny.com/_MADAME-PELOSI-NEEDESW-A-BIG-JET/blog/449808/6475.html

    When are you Liberals going to wake up and realize that the people you support are using you?

    • http://Senateactionswiththeenergyproblem. Paul Drake,

      I am an OLD Republican, and have yet to hear or read any solutions by our party for the energy problems we will face in the future. How about some suggestions and ideas BEFORE you complain or grouse about matters, the basis of which you have not read nor tried to understand.

      We were once a party of intellectual honesty. What happened ???

      • JeffH

        Oh god, here we go again. The eco liberal Dems always want to spend, spend, spend and save the world from mankind torture of the environment. What ever happened to Nuclear Energy? Seems to work with massive “floating cities” like our Aircraft carriers without massive meltdowns, submarines without massive meltdowns. But NO, it’s too dangerous! So the environuts say; Why be logical in an illogical society? Get with it people, Global warming is a farce.
        The first commercial nuclear power stations started operation in the 1950s.
        There are now some 436 commercial nuclear power reactors operating in 30 countries, with 372,000 MWe of total capacity.
        They provide about 15% of the world’s electricity as continuous, reliable base-load power, and their efficiency is increasing.
        56 countries operate a total of about 250 research reactors and a further 220 nuclear reactors power ships and submarines.
        http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf01.html

        • CindyL

          Jeff, my only problem with nuclear is that the MIT study done in 2003 stated that in deregulated markets nuclear power is not now competive with coal and natural gas. Carbon emission credits if enacted by government can give nuclear power a cost advantage. Key word government. 2008 new nuclear power plant construction costs were rising faster than the cost of other types of power plants. Cost are 6-10 billion, take 10-15 years to build and operates without rebuilding for 25 years. It takes vast amounts of water for cooling, and we still have no good solution for waste. Presently some electric companies are now charging customers for the future building costs of a nuclear plant. Why are people forced to contribute to something they may not ever use? They may move or die before plant is producing. That is government force at its worse. No one should have to pay for a service they may never use.

          • denniso

            CindyL…Nuclear power isn’t even close to competitive, especially if you take away gov’t subsidies,like liability insurance and waste storage costs for 10,000 yrs. And it isn’t gov’t forcing you to pay for future construction costs for nuclear..it’s Big Corporations. I would hope that the regulators would stop the tactic, but they’re too controlled by the corp’s.

          • JeffH

            University of Chicago: “Nuclear Power Competitive With Coal & Natural Gas”

            September 20, 2004
            WASHINGTON, DC — While experts have debated the costs associated with developing advanced nuclear power generation, the first exhaustive study examining the economic competitiveness of nuclear power has been completed by the University of Chicago and it shows that the future cost associated with nuclear power production is comparable with gas and coal-based energy generation.

            The principal findings of the Chicago study demonstrate that future nuclear power plants in the United States can be competitive with either natural gas or coal. Whereas the levelized cost of electricity (LCOE) for coal is $33 to $41 per MWh and $35 to $45 per MWh for gas-fired production, new nuclear plants would have costs of $31 to $46 per MWh once early plant costs are absorbed.

            http://nuclear.gov/home/09-20-04.html

          • JeffH

            Forgot to include this part of the report, and you can read the report in it’s entirety by clicking the link above.

            “This study shows that nuclear power can be a competitive source of energy production in the future and will help meet our environmental goals,” said Deputy Energy Secretary Kyle McSlarrow. “We appreciate the University of Chicago’s exhaustive analyses.”

          • JeffH

            Who is going to subsidise the “green energy movement”? The government!

        • DaveH

          Wikipedia has a very comprehensive article on the subject of Nuclear Power vs. other types of Power:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_new_nuclear_power_plants

          • DaveH

            In a free market these issues would be decided by private companies and investors. If they did their homework and made the right choices they would prosper and the consumer would benefit also by cheaper electricity. If they were wrong, they would lose their money, but it would be only their money lost, not the taxpayer’s money.

        • JeffH

          Green Bubbles Bursting
          April 25, 2009
          by Alex Alexiev
          From the National Review
          With the selling of President Obama’s economic agenda now in full gear, this is a good time to take stock of his energy plans against the background of energy trends worldwide. Alas, even a brief glimpse reveals that Obama’s focus on renewable energy and the introduction of a cap-and-trade regime runs counter to both economic rationality and current energy trends to the point of guaranteeing its inevitable failure, which will result in serious economic harm to the United States.
          http://www.rightsidenews.com/200904254505/energy-and-environment/green-bubbles-bursting.html

      • Robert

        Coining Gordon Geko’s infamous statement “GREED”. That’s what happened to the republican party. The other parties were already feasting at the trough. Repupublicans just got a late start. Here’s an outrageous suggestion. Why not ask all our educators, both private and public, to dedicate 10 minutes before the end of the school day emphasizing ways each and evey student can help save energy. Like, turning off the lights when they leave a room. Or telling their parents, “It’s a nice day outside, why don’t we walk to school”. Only thing, Washington will figure out a way either to tax us for this or create a new bloated beauracratic agency to monitor it.

      • Tricia, Arizona

        Our best option and it has been mentioned many times…Drill baby, Drill.

        • denniso

          Sorry but grammar school kids aren’t allowed on this site. You need to study in school more before you have the wisdom to comment about complex issues.

          • JeffH

            duh!niso fires the first “personal” salvo once again!

          • CindyL

            denniso, that wasn’t very nice. No reason to blast her like that. She hasn’t been aggressive towards anyone. You are taking your frustrations out on the wrong person.

        • denniso

          CindyL…My somewhat silly response to ‘her’ is trying to make the point that the now cliche comment she made is only worthy of grammar school. We all know that we can’t drill our way out of the energy dilemma…We are drilling and have been for the entire century..there are hundreds or thousands of oil leases owned by co’s that are sitting idle at the choice of the industry,waiting for higher prices before drilling. The Repub mantra of ‘drill,baby, drill, is so infantile it doesn’t deserve any attention..I’ve given it too much already.

          • DaveH

            I wish we could harness the energy produced by all your Liberal flapping lips.
            Anybody can make up figures and talk until they are blue. In a free market system, the companies are either right and prosper or wrong and lose their money. They put their money where their mouths are (unlike Liberals). During the Carter years as gasoline prices were climbing ever higher, there were the same kind of flapping sounds coming from the Liberals. Then some wise people deregulated the energy markets. The gasoline prices dropped about 40% to less than a dollar a gallon, and they stayed low for almost 20 years.

          • JeffH

            Your “somewhat silly ” remark is your usual self centered personal attack that hasn’t changed from post to post. You still put yourself on a pedastal above those you constantly ridicule. Like I have said before and I’ll say it again. Why don’t you let you child read YOUR infantile posts, and that is if you are even able to have kids. Too ashamed I’m sure.

          • denniso

            Essentially, there are no ‘free markets’! From railroads to agriculture to manufacturing to high tech, the gov’t plays varying degrees of a role in every market. Corporations lobby the gov’t for special treatment..the gov’t buys huge quantities of product from certain industries,like the military..the entire airline business would flop w/o gov’t purchases and support. You guys want to pretend that there is such a thing as the ‘free market’, when it is nothing more than a myth. On a personal note…I’ve been called a traitor,idiot,moron,communist,etc,and even threatened by several people here..I make light of and call silly some of the ridiculous and treasonous comments,rarely stooping to mean spirited name calling, and I’m the bad guy? Don’t think so.

          • JeffH

            duh!niso, the very first comment I ever read from you contained ridicule and personal name calling. That hasn’t changed since. You fired the first shot here and you don’t have the wherewithall to be any differant with future posts. You rarely make a contribution more than bragging of your “pedigree”, name calling and ridicule. You want to be dependent on government to run your life, I don’t! You cry out about violent threats to our government, and against other posters, including yourself, who don’t agree with someone with others comments. You constantly make assumptions, mis-interpret others remarks and then cry out to Bob Livingston to stop the madness. The only madness is you leftist liberal attempts to control and manipulate the words of others. Crawl back intio your trough swine!

          • JeffH

            By theway, all of the descriptions and names you’ve been called are accurate and well deserved.

          • DaveH

            Who on this board has ever said we have free markets? Where do you get this stuff Denniso?
            Corporations definitely do benefit from government protection and aid. In fact, if the energy bill were to pass, there are many alternative energy companies waiting in the wings to profit mightily at the citizens expense.
            That’s why we need to get government out of business. Free the consumers to exercise their power of choice. If the alternative energy schemes were desirable, people would freely purchase them and the Liberals wouldn’t need to hype Man-Made-Global-Warming to scare or force the citizens to accept them.
            Big Government is the problem, not the solution.

          • DaveH

            I must admit that I am amazed a nine-year old girl has a degree in Economics.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, you are correct, no matter who sits in the big chair, they will always cater to those that helped $ put them their. That doesn’t seem like a free and fair method for everyone.

          • denniso

            DaveH…such pie in the sky. If we don’t have free markets and if you agree that they have never really existed in this country, how in hell are we going to reach that utopia of yours…if we ever reached it here, what about the rest of the globe that we deal with? Most of the rest of the world has figured out w/ trial and lot’s of error, that perfectly free markets do not work! There are things, like defense, health,environment and more that markets can’t address w/o disaster.

      • Jana

        In the first place Obama has thwarted any progress in this area by his economic policies.
        We have no incentives out there in even working on this as his share the wealth program has seen to that. Taxes taxes and more taxes. Then he wants to punish us by making our energy that we do have now more expensive.
        He told us before he was even elected that he would do away with the coal industry.
        Where are the incentives to even discover new energy sources, or put them in place?

        One more thing Paul D you do not sound like an OLD Republican, you sound more like a Democrat. Hmmm.

      • JeffH

        Paul Drake…Perry Mason? The words sound all to familiar.

      • DaveH

        Where are you doing your reading and listening? Must be a vacuum. I’m not Republican, but the Republicans have been offering many solutions that are cost effective and still allow freedom of choice.
        Granted, if I had my way we would return to Limited Constitutional Government, Individual Responsibility, and Individual Freedom that is only offered by the one party – The Libertarian Party:
        http://libertarianparty.org/platform

        But there are too many fat cats that don’t want the competition that comes with free enterprise, so it is difficult for the Libertarians to get their message out.

  • Russell EnDean

    Global Warming, Climate change or whatever name is bring used this week is Fraud. It is not scientifically proven. CO2 is not deadly. And even if it were factual, which it is not, there are no known solutions.
    What’s more CAP and TAX provides only 3% of its proceeds toward research. Faudulent non-science with fraudulent legislation bu Fraudulent persons.

    Make no mistake, this is nothing but a new TAX.

    Ant the threat of the $ amount of the new TAX has already frozen the market. If passed, has the potential to cripple the entire power industry (58% coal) including reliable 24/7 availability of electricity to users, and respective costs.

    Just say NO.

    • denniso

      Russell..I wonder, are you a scientist or do you just know automatically what science is correct and what isn’t??

    • Lindy

      Global Warming or climate change is VERY real. Shrinking ice caps and disappearing glaciers make that painfully obvious. What is currently being debated is whether it is man-made or part of a natural cycle. You talk about fraud and bad science and in your next sentence you say “CO2 is not deadly”. You’re absolutely wrong. It is deadly. CO2 poisoning is called Hypercapnea… look it up. If you can’t get your basic science facts correct, I have to question all of your opinions about science. When you state “CO2 is not deadly” you lose your credibility.

      • DaveH

        Almost everything is deadly in concentrated form. The question is whether the concentrations now or in the future would be deadly. There is no evidence of that.
        Here is a very interesting article on the danger of melting ice caps:
        http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/waterworld.html

        • Lindy

          Hey DaveH
          Yes… too much of anything can be lethal. Not the point. The LD of CO2 is irrelevant. My point was that poster’s utter lack of credibility. My point is that Global Warming or climate change is VERY real. Shrinking ice caps and disappearing glaciers make that painfully obvious. What is currently being debated is whether it is man-made or part of a natural cycle.
          Dying from CO2 poisoning is not the risk humanity faces from global warming. The inconvenience of lost ocean front property from changes in sea levels is not a big problem either. It’s the change in weather patterns, which means the ability of the US farmer to feed the world or even just to feed the country may be in danger. Climate change could lead to the collapse of the food chain due to habitat loss and/or species loss. It’s a big picture thing… and until the cause of climate change is proven, one way or another, it should be a concern. The entire topic should be given a little more thought and respect than the normal rhetoric… “Obama is a socialist… it’s just another tax… it’s a liberal / MSM conspiracy”.
          Besides… while we’re waiting for someone to decide WHAT is causing global warming, maybe there’s a couple of $$$ to be made investing in a wind power company? :-)

          • DaveH

            In previous centuries the churches aided the leaders in retaining their power by placating the masses. Now, the government scientists and their favored companies fill that role. It is all about preserving the lifestyles of the leaders. The Global Warming hype is another chapter in their quest to keep the masses mesmerized and frightened.
            In the 70s the government scientists were gnashing their teeth over Global Cooling.
            http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/02/15/the-looming-horror-of-global-cooling/
            Wake up Lindy, you are being used. Read some books. Pick up a copy of “Climate of Extremes: Global Warming Science They Don’t Want You to Know” by Patrick Michaels and Robert Balling.
            Get some real knowledge instead of what you are being spoon fed by the MSM.

          • denniso

            Good comment Lindy…The energy industry in general wants to keep selling their products,because they have big $$ invested and therefore want to maintain the status quo..the multi millionaires are doing very well w/ it. They’ve managed to enlist some regular people who are gullible enough to be their pawns in this battle for the future health of the globe. Much like working people voting against their own interest for the elite Bush’s and liking them because they think they could have a beer w/ them. Makes no sense.

          • JeffH

            hese so called “Big Millionaires and Corporations” enlist the “paid whores” in DC to do their bidding and create legislation and loopholes that protect their interests. We, the people, through our own ignorance have allowed this to grow into big government control and over-regulation. We the people cannot depend on the government carnivours to protect the taxpayer’s carcass from being eaten. We the people have to regain control of these government free riders and stop them from sucking the lifeblood out of our “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”.

        • denniso

          DaveH…your comment,’almost everything in concentrated form is deadly’, gets us to the fundalmental question..How much in added greehouse gases can the earth tolerate and not adversely affect the entire ecosystem. It isn’t a matter of the gases concentration being lethal to humans..it’s what the accumulated gases do to the natural balance that the earth has dealt with for centuries. Even if we ‘only’ contribute 5% or so of the total in greenhouse gases ea yr, we’ve been doing it for a couple hundred yrs and the accumulation is in addition to what the natural system produces and deals with in a balanced global ecosystem. We can tip the balance w/ our relatively small output. CO2 is not the only culprit..methane is much worse as a greenhouse gas.

        • JeffH

          Top 10 Global Warming Myths
          October 25th, 2009

          Myth #1: The planet Earth will be healthier with lower CO2 levels.
          Fact: More CO2 is needed to bolster plant life, which turns the gas into oxygen while also providing food.

          Myth #2: Rising CO2 levels cause temperatures to rise.
          Fact: Temperatures over time have fluctuated while CO2 levels have remained steady. What’s more, temperature increases have historically led increases in CO2 levels. (See Don Easterbrook’s studies for graphical proof, including all the supporting scientific data.)

          Myth #3: Sea levels will rise 20 feet by the end of the century.
          Fact: The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicts only a 17-inch rise, and “most climatologists predict a rise of only 7 or 8 inches.”

          Myth #4: Scientists unanimously say that CO2 caused by humans is the dominant cause of global warming.
          Fact: Not so. “Many, many reputable scientists believe that natural factors overpower the current influence of CO2 on global warming.”

          http://www.greenhousegasholes.com/

      • coal miner

        Lindy,
        you are right,hypercapnia is also called hypercarbia.It is diagnose in SIDS and deep sea diving.It can be deadly for astronauts,without adequate filtration systems.CO2 indeed can be fatal.He better get his facts straight.

        • DaveH

          Are you for real? Even oxygen can be fatal if breathed in pure form under pressure. That is totally irrelevant to the discussion of Global Warming.

          • Lindy

            DaveH… now you’ve got it. Follow the thread. Russell says global warming is a fraud and then says CO2 is not deadly. Then I replied that CO2 is deadly and that his basic science is wrong. He had lost his credibility. Then you chime in with “everything is deadly in concentrated form” which is true but off topic. Nobody said anything about “concentrated form” and Russell and you should know that the global warming debate has NEVER been concerned with mass CO2 poisoning. Then Coal Miner confirms and elaborates on my point that CO2 poisoning, hypercapnia is also called hypercarbia. Then you attack Coal Miner with more of your “everything is lethal spin”… except this you added that it must be under pressure. Again… NOT THE POINT. All I was saying to Russell was if his science is flawed, then it’s highly likely that the rest of his statement is flawed too. Unlike you DaveH… too many people rant and rave, with glaring factual errors and think they’re adding to the discussion. At least with you… most of the time, there are websites cited to back-up your claims. But you were either missing the point or just being a spin-doctor. But now you’ve got what I originally said… CO2 poisoning (which exists) is totally irrelevant to the discussion… DaveH you and I are now in complete agreement.

          • DaveH

            Lindy,
            I didn’t attack Coal Miner any more than you attacked Russell (in fact less). His statement of toxicity of CO2 was in the context of Global Warming. Then you got all over him, and Coal Miner backed you up. How come only Liberals can vigorously dispute someone even to the point of putting words in their mouths, but nobody else is allowed to do the same? You aren’t going to silence me Lindy, so don’t waste your time trying.

          • Lindy

            DaveH… yeah you got me. Of course we know that only YOU can ever be right… only YOU know or speak the truth. You should be the Pope… you’re bloody infallible. I was trying to” silence you”? Ok, you’re absolutely right. I’m just part of a large conspiracy out to get you. But you’re so darn clever, you knew that at our secret Main Stream Media meeting last week, they appointed me as the person to “silence you” on this website. At that meeting the “government scientists hyping global warming” agreed to supplement my high school science education with their biased facts. The Illuminati pay for my web connection, the Bilderberg Group bought the laptop I’m typing this on and the Tri-Lateral Commission pays me a monthly wage expropriated from the Federal Reserve. Now that you’ve got it all figured out I might get kicked out of the Masons and I’ll probably lose my guest pass to Area 51. At this point I might as well confess that it was me on the grassy knoll, I faked the moon landing photos and it’s my job to make Glenn Beck cry.

          • DaveH

            I love it when you Liberals go on your rants. It saves me a lot of trouble convincing people what the Liberals that want to run their lives are really like.

          • El Dub / Tx

            Sorry DaveH, you got schooled on that last post. Your response seems like you didn’t even read it. Actually, it was very funny. To be truthful, I got bored trying to follow what was going on. But when you started calling him (or is it her?) a Liberal and that very ironic reply a rant, you lost. When you start calling people names you’ve lost the debate.

          • coal miner

            DaveH,

            Have you ever work in a coal mines? Next to carbon monoxide and methane,carbon dioxide is the biggest killer.It is called bad air.I had a next door neighbor died, as a result of it,before you can work in any mines,you have to take a test.It is on the test papers.It is very lethal in a closed area.

          • DaveH

            Oh, yeah, El, I got schooled. Dream on.

            Miner,
            I don’t dispute that. It just has nothing to do with the Global Warming issue.

          • JeffH

            I saw Bonanza on TV and they have canaries in cages and keep candles lit inside coal mines. If the canaries die and the candles go out that means there isn’t any oxygen. Right? LOL!

  • Foolpatrol

    So what’s new? After all, Republicans are the party of NO. NO plan, NO vision, NO ideas, No solutions; just NO!

    • http://kendricc@uww.edu Carie

      We are not the party of “no,” we are employing good sense. Bad ideas are bad ideas…look down the path a ways and try to figure out the real impact of those policies you want to put in place. If China, Korea, India and others will not commit to alternative energies, their huge populations will negate anything we do.

      • Shirley

        I 100% concur!

      • s c

        Carie, let’s examine comrade obama’s true face and a prime example of his infamy. That is, how it will be possible to sell the idea that our elected icons are ‘too good’ to endure the same low-grade health care they want us to have. Recently, comrade obama was asked if he’d give up his cadillac health care, so he could be like the rest of us. HE WOULD NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION!
        Comrade obama is preaching from the hypocrite’s pulpit. He knows that if he ignores the question, his sheep will line up to defend him. That makes him the worst kind of prez, as he relies on braindead, two-legged sheep to defend him at all costs. If comrade obama (or weasels in congress) are ‘too good’ to have the same health care, then anyone who can’t see through this crap has a fool for a leader, and that ‘leader’ has retarded followers.
        What does that really say about comrade obama [and his followers] and his anti-American visions, plans, ideas and solutions?

      • denniso

        Carrie…’bad ideas are bad ideas’…really? I guess continuing down the path that gives us massive pollution,toxic waste, exploitation of dwindling resources,filling the atmosphere w/ greenhouse gases,melting glaciers and extincting whole species of life is a GOOD IDEA??? Please, open your eyes..don’t just follow Limbaugh and these non thinkers blindly!!

        • DaveH

          We could get rid of a lot of pollution and toxic waste if you would just bugger off.

        • DaveH

          If you would just spend some time reading, you would find that the richest countries are the cleanest.
          Where do you come up with this Casandraesque crap of melting icebergs?
          If they did melt, it wouldn’t affect the ocean level a bit. What happens if you fill a glass with water and ice cubes? When the ice melts does the glass overflow? Of course not. And the ocean is salt water which buoys the ice even higher than fresh water would.
          http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6548

          Species have been going extinct long before man came on this earth. Remember the Dinosaurs? It’s called Nature.

          I can’t believe you had the audacity to say this to Tricia, who hadn’t said anything inflammatory to you or anyone else:
          “You need to study in school more before you have the wisdom to comment about complex issues”.

          How can somebody who is so damn dumb have the nerve to personally insult others?

          • JeffH

            DaveH, I am liking the Libertarians more and more. As for the eyesore duh!nniso’s remarks, you alerted me to the ways of Saul Alinsky, so through this posting I will choose to ignore it. Like a shoefly, they won’t leave when you swat at them, you have to crush them, which you and others continualy do.

          • CindyL

            Who is tricia? Didn’t see a post from her.

          • CindyL

            Dave, Denniso, responded to Carrie not Tricia.

          • CindyL

            oops, I finally got to where I needed to be. You are right, he was not justified in his remark. I was reading site from bottom up. Saw your remark under carries. Sorry.

          • Thurman Marcum

            Dave,

            I see you are a reader of the classics.Cassandra appeared in Greek mythology.She had the gift of prophesy,no one believed her.This gift was given by Apollo,he was in love with her. She spurned him and he cursed her so no one would believe her.

          • DaveH

            Thurman,
            I really meant it more as in the Casandra Syndrome where someone ‘believes’ they can see the future.

          • denniso

            DaveH…get it right before you spout. I said glaciers,not icebergs, though icebergs typically come from glaciers. Glaciers form on land,not in the ocean..if they melt faster than normal, they indeed do flow into the ocean. Do you really think that scientists are that dumb, that they would warn about rising sea level if they hadn’t figured out,long ago, that the melting ice would do exactly that? I’m afraid, for your sake, that you’ve just shown to anyone who can think on this site that you’re a little more than clueless on this issue..all you do is complain that possible warming is a plot to enslave you and make Obama King of the one world gov’t. Pretty amazing!

          • DaveH

            Denniso,
            You are right, I misread your comment. You did say Glaciers, not Icebergs. However, your constant statements about the majority of scientists are not only wrong, but I suspect purposeful in an effort to mislead people. Didn’t you read the article that I provided a link to? Here is another to prove your statements erroneous:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

            By the way, my mistake does not make you any less of a Liberal.

          • denniso

            DaveH…That’s some ‘inflamatory comment’ I made to tricia.WOW! Suggesting that maybe she study more before commenting on complex issues? How do you know that she isn’t in grammar school? Her,’drill,baby,drill, sounds like what a child might say about a very complicated issue…VERY SIMPLISIC, to say the least.

            Now DaveH…thanks for the wikipedia link that lists about 45 scientists who dissent on the prevailing view held by tens of thousands of scientists around the world who say that human activity is responsible to some degree for warming.What you failed to note is that there is another wikipedia article there that lists and states that every recognized scientific organization is in agreement on human caused(at least to some degree)global warming. You must not have seen the link,because I don’t think you would have included your link in you comment. Here it is for all to see…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

          • denniso

            So, DaveH..you agree then, that melting GLACIERS will raise the sea level??

          • DaveH

            The IPCC is a very political organization whose members have been known to add fudge-factors to models, etc. to come up with consistent results (model to reality).
            The earth has been in a cooling trend for the last decade, and just 30 years ago the politician-scientists were anguishing over Global Cooling:
            http://www.isthereglobalcooling.com/
            The Global Warming Fear Mongering is simply another way that Liberals have developed to justify depriving us of our freedom and money.

            And from your own cited article:
            “Global warming in this case is indicated by an increase of 0.75 degrees in average global temperatures over the last 100 years”.
            Oh, yes, the sky is falling, the sky is falling!

          • denniso

            This should work:

          • denniso

            DaveH..did you look at the link from wikipedia that lists all the scientific organizations that agree w/ Al Gore and me and millions more..but not you?
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

          • JeffH

            Its no secret what warms planets…its called the Sun. When the cycle of the Sun emits more solar radiation and increased sunspots, the solar system gets warmer. How come every planet in the solar system has seen increased heating over the same time as Earth. Ice caps on Mars are shrinking too and its not because of SUVs.

          • DaveH

            Denniso,
            Have you read the book that I recommended? Of course not, because you don’t want to learn anything, you just want to spread your biased opinion.
            Do you know where their Man Made Global Warming ‘Science’ comes from? It isn’t from measured reality, it is from GCMs (General Circulation Models) that run on a computer and scientists have been known to add factors to make those models come into compliance with real measured temperatures. That isn’t science, it is politics.
            This is an important read for anyone who wants to keep an open mind and learn about the Global Warming Hysteria:
            http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4674
            From the above article: “Simply put, scientists know where the grants will come from to pay their salaries. Dr. Patrick Michaels, a leading opponent to the global warming scaremongers, calls it the federal/science paradigm. He describes it this way: Tax $ = Grants = Positive Feedback Loop to Get more Grants”.

          • DaveH
          • denniso

            So DaveH, you didn’t answer the question…if glaciers melt,aside from what that means to rivers and ecosystems, does the sea level rise then?

          • JeffH

            List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

        • Jana

          uh oh, the ever present mr. negative is back. The one who makes up things and calls them facts.

          • denniso

            What would you have to say if you don’t have me to attack?

        • JeffH

          List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

    • JeffH

      …and us conservative say NO to YOUR presidents attempts to bankrupt America and saddle us with all of your wacko leftwing extremist ideas.

      • denniso

        JeffH…BORING!!! Please try to come up w/ something a little different..talk about a warn out mantra that’s become a cliche!Reminds me of the extreme flower children constantly repeating,’peace,love,kindness,harmony..as though that’s all it takes to effect change.At least their words sound better.

        • JeffH

          Don’t you have an appointment at Woodstock or something? You certainly don’t need any more halucinogenics.

          • DaveH

            LOL. That’s what I was thinking when I read his comment.
            Debating with Denniso is like debating with a spoiled 9-year old. It’s impossible to take the blinders off somebody who doesn’t want them off.

        • denniso

          Waste of time to respond to these absurd comments,but you guys sound like little kids giggling over nonsense.

          • DaveH

            I guess you would know about little kids. From your own previous comment:
            “denniso says:
            October 26, 2009 at 2:17 pm
            Give Obama a chance! When you say he’s doing nothing good,don’t forget he just stopped a possible cold war w/ Russia. Obama’s only been in office for 9 months and he’s trying to fix the mess that bozo bush left here. Obama’s not a socialist, he’s trying to save capitalism for you!!
            Gabriela,age 9.”

    • JeffH

      This should be read and understood by all Americans Democrats, Republicans, EVERYONE!!

      To President Obama and all 535 voting members of the Legislature,
      It is now official you are ALL corrupt morons:

      The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775 You have had 234 years to get it right and it is broke.
      Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broke.
      Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 years to get it right and it is broke.
      War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to “the poor” and they only want more.
      Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44 years to get it right and they are broke.
      Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get it right and it is broke.
      The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

      You have FAILED in every “government service” you have shoved down our throats while overspending our tax dollars AND YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM??

      • DaveH

        Jeff,
        You haven’t cited enough examples, lol. This one is going to work, I just know it. And if it doesn’t, we can just keep Hoping and Dreaming and try more of the same.

        • JeffH

          DaveH, as you well know, if thier is a response, it will contain Bush, Republicans, Reagan, Cheney. It won’t matter that both parties were originaly mentioned at all.

          • JeffH

            there

      • denniso

        JeffH…So I’ve failed at every gov’t service that’s been rammed down your throat? So, then you don’t like the gov’t run military? It’ll cost you over 600 million this yr. How about the evil gov’t provided interstate highway system? You don’t favor that either? If it were built today what would it cost in your tax dollars? one trillion, two trillion? More? I wonder if you support the terrible gov’t service of sewage treatment plants that that the feds put another couple trillion of tax money into? The evil gov’t services of police and fire protection? More trillions over the past 50 yrs. Are they ok?
        You know JeffH, I’ve talked to many people like you and your buddies and it’s always the same thing..YOU want to be able to pick and choose which gov’t services the country gets through taxes..sorry, that’s not how it works in a sort of a democracy. Get over it!

        • JeffH

          That is correct. Americans call it freedom of choice. That’s not what your mentor Barack “Saul Alinsky” Obama calls it though.

          • denniso

            So it’s OK for all who oppose war to not fund the military?

        • JeffH

          duh!nniso, that’s your biggest problem, you think like the government. Just an example from your rant; JeffH…So I’ve failed at every gov’t service that’s been rammed down your throat?
          “I’ve”… give all of us a break and don’t think to highly of yourself.

          • denniso

            I said, ‘I’ve failed’, because you and other extreme anti gov’t people here blame the liberals for designing the programs you say failed..I’m a proud liberal, so you’re blaming me. All those programs have not failed anyway..they require funding,JeffH.
            You can’t answer my question to you about the military? Hypocrisy?

    • Robert

      Does the first four letters of you name explain your parent’s generic make up?

      • denniso

        Are you talking to me, Bob?? Do you mean Denmark? what?

    • denniso

      Most Repubs favor doing nothing except drill and blow mountain tops off,which we are doing,because they like the status quo…why do they like it? Because the energy industry has trillions of $$ in oil,coal,uranium and gas still to exploit..and they have trillions invested in the deal…Repubs are totally captured by the industry and are often unwitting pawns in the battle to move out of the dark ages. Of course, the fatcat repubs know exactly what they’re doing in fooling the rank and file repubs w/ their propoganda.

      • DaveH

        Oh, but it’s okay to erect vast arrays of windmills as an ugly eyesore to the environment. Of course, because Liberals want them. All is good. Unless of course they want to put them up where they might destroy the view from a Rich Liberal’s Estate (Ted Kennedy).

        • CindyL

          Daveh, I live in an Atlantic state and I sure don’t want drilling off our coast. I once lived in Texas and their beaches are totally ruined. Drilling will not solve our oil problems. We don’t have enough time or resources to be able to compensatate for the amount we use.Unless we want to risk damaging our entire coast line we need to find alternative fuel sources. We have too many hurricane threats every year that would put the entire coast at risk.

          • denniso

            Right CindyL…these drillers forget that our country spent a half century or more drilling every where w/ almost no restrictions from the gov’t and our gluttonous demand still outstripped supply. We aren’t going to stop drilling,but we need other options and absolutely some rational degree of conservation..higher mpg for all autos, less waste in general.

        • denniso

          Windmills may be unsightly to some, but they never cause huge oil spills that wipe out vast swaths of ocean life and destroy fishing and tourism jobs.

      • Jana

        mr den. and all your hero Obama wants to do is tax tax tax.

    • coal miner

      fool,

      They are arguing over CO2,if it is deadly.I think flatulating in a closed crowded elevator and on a long bus ride can be highly lethal.In other words a natural gas known in layman term, a fart.

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    To all Republicans: Just say NO to the environmentalist wackos!! IMO this one area in which the GOP is still weak. Many are wising up to the fact that they need to get back to conservative principles to win back control and save America in 2010 and 2012 – i.e., stop profligate spending and earmarks, and cut taxes and regulations to cure the recession and grow the economy. But many in the GOP are wimps when it comes to the greatest threat to America and its liberty and economy – the enviro-statists. And in some cases they go along with this fringe group. It’s not about clean air or water. It’s about destroying America by, i.e., protecting kangaroo rats, cutting off water to protect fish; not to mention the high price of Cap & Trade (the biggest tax hike ever with no benefits!!) to deal with the global warming hoax!! Republicans need to stand up, and expose the radical anti-American and anti-capitalist agenda of the environmentalist wackos, and hopefully flush out this fringe movement.

    • http://Senateactionswiththeenergyproblem. Paul Drake,

      Amen to Carrie !!! Why don’t we read enough about the problems facing us to at least comment with some suggestions and ideas. I am not a scientist, and sure as hell do not even begin to know the intracacies of the problem, but I do KNOW that there no longer is an horizon like we had when flying in the 1960s, and we need it back !!!!

      Paul

    • denniso

      Straight from the mouth of Limbaugh!! What a genius he is!

      • denniso

        Above was a response to Earl, the Limbaugh spouter.

  • Vic Bailey, Auburn, Georgia

    Just say NO to your corrupt Socialist government LIES, common sense is hard to find in this government, Kerry is a liar and traitor to this country and people, as is Boxer, Pelosi, Reid, Gore they a are investing in companies that will make a killing when these stupid bills pass, and you (the People) are getting screwed right into their plan!!!!!And you are too damn dumb to know it!!

    • Shirley

      vic, not dumb, not informed, just frustrated by our inability to make a difference. What are you doing to change the winds of change that are blowing over this Nation. I know thousands of people who are writing, calling, marching, if you have an idea that will move us back to sanity just let us know what it is and if it makes sense and is legal we will try it.

    • denniso

      VIC…Now that’s different!! Just kidding..you’re saying the exact same thing as almost everyone else on this site! Can’t you be a bit original?? Well, I’ve said it before..you’re mostly blind sheep following bozos like Limbaugh, so it’s not surprising that you ape one another.

      • DaveH

        For all you fence-straddlers out there:
        This is the kind of person that wants to run your lives. If you think the Liberal leaders are any smarter than Denniso, think again. They are pushy name-calling thugs just as Denniso aspires to be.

        • http://aol Don

          More name calling by Jeff.

          • DaveH

            LOL, put your glasses on Don, I’m Dave. Again, I will treat the Liberals like they treat others on this board. If you want respect, then give respect.

          • JeffH

            Don is not real, it is another name used by????

        • denniso

          I am confident that Liberal leaders and even some conservatives are smarter than me.

  • Rick G

    I am awake! I am writing and calling Washington so often it is on my speed dial. The problem is the people are awake but the politicians are off dreaming in La La Land. No one in Washington listens to the people. It is a government entirely run by an elite class of Jackasses. The only thing to do is clean house the best we can in 2010 and then finish the house cleaning in 2012. In the mean time we suffer with things the way they are. We need more people to accept personal responsibility and have self reliance. The government never gives anything without taking from someone else. The government does not have money of it’s own. The only money government has is the money they take from us, the citizens. They are trying to find new ways of taxing everyone, not only the rich. The cap and tax bill is just another tax on the people. Companies like GE will be one of the winners. Al Gore has made millions of dollars with his Global Warming crap. It wasn’t long agon they were warning of an ice age. Now New York and the Eastern coast will be a summer beach and resort. What fools we have, always thinking of ways to take our money. What will the government do when we are all on state welfare?

    • Shirley

      I agree Rick G. We need to get all people in their right mind, no pun intended, out to vote these numb skulls out….democrats and republicans who are not representing the will of the people as they were elected to do.

  • http://Fritz44r@aol.com DRobert Roenbaugh

    What are conservative values when it comes to clean air, water, food, etc, It sometimes takes laws to provide some things,but there is always some one, some where if it is not started by his/her party, its so often NO good, etc etc, and should be voted against,

    • http://kendricc@uww.edu Carie

      You’re kidding, aren’t you? Do you really think because it wasn’t our idea specifically we won’t get behind it? That is totally ridiculous! We believe in clean air, water, food..why aren’t they spending some of the stimulus money to invest in clean coal technology (since we have enormous amounts of coal)? Why aren’t we investing in more Nuclear-we have the technology now to store waste safely.Why aren’t we backing organic farmers? Because this administration is lobby friendly just as the others were; and the science behind the global warming agenda is skewed to back thier point of view-there is just as much science that opposes it. Why don’t you turn off the propaganda on your TV and do some research for yourself…

    • Shirley

      conservaties value comon sense. Some of the environmental things are real some are ways to stuff the pockets of politicians.

      • denniso

        Nixon might be one of the last Repub leaders to do anything at all for the environment..much like civil rights, Liberals have to lead the kicking,screaming repubs along. Actually, Bush 1 reauthorized the clean air act..amazing.

  • Vic Bailey, Auburn, Georgia

    By the way, I haven’t heard anything about Gore cutting back on his giant energy use in his home in Nashville, or Pelosi cutting back on her use of private jets, or any of the rest of these CLOWNS making any
    sacrifices to help ANYTHING, talk about HYPOCRITES, these clowns are laughing all the way to the bank because the people are so stupid to believe this crap!

    • Robert

      Don’t forget about the big O’s extensive use of Air Force 1. Like he really gives a (Censored myself) about the environment. Unless it means more taxes and further restrictions on our constitutional rights, he’s not interested.

    • s c

      Vic, comrade obama, gore, kerry, pelosi and all other political vermin (yes, both parties) know that the first political protocol demands that reason, transparency and integrity must be sacrificed (if you wanna be a member of ‘the club’). From there, words have no meaning unless they serve their purposes. Getting and keeping power is a religion.
      A new prez is America’s pc-approved ‘savior,’ and the rest of the elected flunkies become all-knowing prophets and saints. The rest of us ‘mortals’ are good for nothing except easy votes and a constant influx of easy money for those in power.
      It should be obvious by now that a quick way to solve part of the global warming ‘threat’ is to limit self-adoring politicians to no more than 25 words a day. That will end the world’s oral flatulence crisis. And, it will give the rest of us more time to contemplate how we got where we are and how to get rid of what really ails us – career
      politicians.

  • http://Fritz44r@aol.com DRobert Roenbaugh

    if someone is so unhappy, so upset with D.C and the government entirley, then , there are other countries to move to, or , hey why doesnt some of these know it alls, run for office?? there always has to be , no matter what some whacko that says its always Socialism, I think its time for some of these poor souls to understand there is auch a thing as AMERICAISM !!! amen

    • maggiemoo

      You’re right, DRobert. There are other SOCIALIST nations out there to which these power hungry politicians could move. Leave our REPUBLIC alone!!! We constitution-minded people aren’t the ones who should quit and leave our country. We’ll stay and fight for it’s very survival. BTW, I believe THAT is Americanism.

    • Shirley

      and there is such a thing as narcisim. Americans who fought and died for the freedoms America offers and the protection of values we hold dear won’t be leaving soon. We will simply see that those who want “change” are voted out. Then, if they want to go to another Country that already has the “change” they seek so be it and good riddance!

    • Robert

      You’re so right. I’m moving back to the Bronx. At least I’ll be able to fish and swim in the Harlem River. Why not join me. You’ll find it exhilarating and a good learning experience. Then we could go to the Bronx Zoo after that and I’ll bet you that they’ll let you hand feed the lions.
      You know lions are almost as nice as those Gitmo detainees they are transferring to New York City. Wouldn’t hurt a sole. Eric Holden say’s that and he wouldn’t lie, would he?

    • JeffH

      DRobert Roenbaugh, there is no ‘ism in America. We intend to take back our country soon enough, then you will be free to move to the country of your choice. As is said, “keep some powder dry” so you can afford the move.

      • denniso

        Isn’t there an ‘ism’ in capitalism?

    • Jana

      drobert
      That is just it, we want true Americanism back!!!
      You and yours are the ones who changed this country and we are fighting to get it back.
      We fought and had family members die for this country so we have blood sweat and tears invested in it. So,YOU LEAVE, we are staying.

  • jeerry silovich

    cap and trade is nothing more than a $3,100.00 per house hold tax. 2ndit will reade our jobs away. sen Boxer is nothing more then a socialist!sen Boxer up for reelection in 2010 and i hope she is voted out of office.

    • denniso

      jeerry…MADE UP NUMBER WARNING, MADE UP NUMBER WARNING!!!!!

      • JeffH

        The Obama administration has privately concluded that a cap and trade law would cost American taxpayers up to $200 billion a year, the equivalent of hiking personal income taxes by about 15 percent.
        A previously unreleased analysis prepared by the U.S. Department of Treasury says the total in new taxes would be between $100 billion to $200 billion a year. At the upper end of the administration’s estimate, the cost per American household would be an extra $1,761 a year.
        It is also worth noting that, of the 24 years analyzed by The Heritage Foundation’s Center for Data Analysis (CDA), 2020 had the second lowest GDP loss. Furthermore, the CDA found that for all years the average GDP loss was $393 billion, or over double the 2020 hit. In 2035 (the last year analyzed by Heritage) the inflation adjusted GDP loss works out to $6,790 per family of four–and that is before they pay their $4,600 share of the carbon taxes.[5] The negative economic impacts accumulate, and the national debt is no exception. The increase in family-of-four debt, solely because of Waxman-Markey, hits an astounding $114,915 by 2035
        http://www.heritage.org/Research/EnergyandEnvironment/wm2503.cfm

        • denniso

          JeffH…the heritage people are only one of the most transparently partisan groups around. Don’t believe their numbers. And, i wonder, could you tell us how much this current economic collapse,brought on mostly by out of control capitalism,has cost the average american in direct losses as well as gdp loss?? And we get NOTHING in return,unlike environmental or healthcare legislation.

      • DaveH

        Here it is straight from the Donkey’s mouth:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlTxGHn4sH4

        • DaveH

          I mean the other Donkey.

        • JeffH

          …”that will cost money and those costs will be passed on to the consumer.” Sounded like a “whinney” to me.

    • CindyL

      jeerry, you are not correct, you are using old talking points. The GAO stated it would cost the average household approx. $117.00 per year. Less than $12.00 per month. This blog site stays on top of the latest info, so, I just thought I would let you know, that we know you aren’t using the latest information.

  • Vic Bailey, Auburn, Georgia

    When Gore was being questioned by the Comgress committee he admitted that he was in with the companies that would profit. 30,000 people (scientists) are sueing Al Gore for the lies that have been told to the American people and the world, but you don’t hear that on the news, because the government wants you to be taxed so they will have more money to WASTE. WAKE UP PEOPLE!! The bigger the lie the easier it is for the government to get you to believe. I do agree we need to clean up our rivers and lakes but get real, fine the people that are doing it NOT THE PEOPLE!

    • maggiemoo

      Be careful, Vic. You’re using some common-sense and that may be too much for some to handle!

    • Shirley

      He and Obama hold the same prestigious award….When I was young I thought that anhyone who earned that “prize” was someone to be held in high esteem….hog wash! What a joke.

    • Thurman Marcum

      Vic Bailey,

      I am from the left and I agree with you.Al Gore is a big liar and it would take two gallons of keresene for him to puke up the truth.It is true that we have to eventually switch over to alternative energy sources,we have to do it gradually with out bankrupting the country.These may one day,feasible energy sources.
      Hydrogen-water
      Thermal energy
      nuclear energy
      Landfills
      bacteria
      synthetic oil
      sewer gas
      we shoudn’t be in too much a hurry,we got time. We are americansand we will find a way
      Have no fear global warming is just a big hoax.

      • DaveH

        Thurman,
        The free market would accomplish those things without people being forced. In a free market, people and companies see things coming and seek solutions. Of course they have future profits in mind, but why not? Those who come up with good solutions should be rewarded with profit.
        Some of the technologies such as solar panels have almost reached the point of being economically viable. When they are, people will buy them willingly.

      • JeffH

        Thurm buddy, good job, and as DaveH said, the free market will address these issues without government interventions and intrusions.
        Solar panels might someday be a standard item or option on new homes.

        • denniso

          JeffH old buddy…free market?..do you mean the way the free market has worked so well w/ health care? Maybe the way the free market has worked to give us the most powerful military the world has ever seen? Oh, that’s right, the Big Bad Gov’t gave us that..OK, how about the free market getting us to the moon and in the process giving us things like instant communication? Oh, I forgot, the Gov’t did that too! Well, I do know one great thing that the free market gave us..Walmart! That’s pretty impressive, right?

          • JeffH

            denisso, there isn’t a free market for health providers is there? Seems to me there are restricted markets and we can’t even go to another state. Is there competition for all? NO! That don’t fly. Remember, without taxpayer funding the government, we wouldn’t have a military or fly to the moon. Your arguements hold no water once again.

          • JeffH

            That’s right, WalMart. You at least have the FREEDOM to shop wherever you want, and you can also do your shopping at the government run stores so you don’t spend any money with a big free market capitalist corportion.

          • DaveH

            There hasn’t been a free market in health care since I’ve been alive Liberal.

    • denniso

      Vic, don’t you imagine if you fine the corp’s that are polluting(and we do already) they pass the cost on to you in price increases on products you buy anyway. Citizens pay one way or another. That’s life.

  • Kendall

    Foolpatrol must be stalking himself. Anyone who believes that anthropogenic global warming is a crisis has a few screws loose. This is nothing more than a propaganda campaign by mindless marxists and environmental extremists who are using the environment to garner greater control over our lives. There is no evidence that carbon dioxide causes warming. Indeed the opposite is true. Rising carbon dioxide is a 600-800 year lagging indicator of warming. This is just an unfounded theory that idiot leftists like Barbara Boxer and John Kerry have bought hook, line and sinker.

    The earth has warmed slightly over the last 150 years, and only about 0.74 degrees C since 1900 (see IPCC Summary for Policymakers 2007). But it began its ascent from a temperature trough called the Little Ice Age that had been going on from 1315 to about 1800. The current slight upswing is just part of the natural climate cycle. For the past 3,000 years, temperatures have fallen within a range of about three degrees C. We are currently below the 3,000 average. Where’s the beef?

    Thus, there is nothing remarkable about the actual temperature record of the 20th century. The alarmists have to use computer modeling to predict larger increases—something the government-owned news media blindly accepts. And, again, they’re based on the flawed carbon dioxide causation theory, which is contradicted by the experience of the most of the 20th century. How does one explain rising temperatures from 1910-1945 when carbon dioxide was not a factor; or 1945-1978 when temperatures fell while carbon dioxide levels were rising. Remember the global cooling “crisis” of the 1970s? It is only in the period from 1979-1998 that temperatures and carbon dioxide levels rose simultaneously. But correspondence does not equal causation.

    What explains the hype? The growing environmental movement looking for a moral crusade and a money-making cause and politicians like Al Gore anxious to milk it for political benefit, with the aid of that ideologue masquerading as a scientist James Hansen. Not to mention billions of federal research dollars doled out to those who predict doom and gloom.

    Temperatures have actually been falling since 1998. But global warming fanatics are still overheated.

    Man readily adapts to temperature swings of 100 degrees over the course of a typical year. If you were seated in a room and the thermostat was increased by 1 degree, no one would notice.

    Al Gore’s “An Inconvenient Truth” lecture is riddled with more than 33 major errors, many documented by a British court. For example, his predictions of a 20-foot sea level rise is completely without foundation. Even the U.N.’s IPCC now predicts only a 8.5 to 18.5 inch rise by 2100. Sea levels have been rising at the same rate of about 9 inches per century since the end of the last Ice Age 12,500 years ago. The rate of increase has actually declined in recent years.

    Reasons to oppose cap and trade

    It will dramatically increase the cost of energy to families, businesses and consumers —from $3.000 per household annually when it takes effect in 2012 and rising to $7,000 annually by 2035; electricity costs will increase 90%, gasoline prices 58%, natural gas 55%. Every product produced or transported with energy will cost significantly more.

    It will have negligible influence on global temperatures—no more than 0.07 degrees C by 2050 and no more than 0.2 degrees C by 2100. No one alive today will around to measure this modest increase. And the increase, if any, will probably be so miniscule that it will be impossible to distinguish it for normal climate variation, or natural solar output variation.

    It has been tried in Europe and failed. Emissions went up 2.1% in EU but only 1.3% in U.S. without caps. Biggest emitters (China, India) want nothing to do with it, so also Africa and South America. U.S. would be the only country punishing itself.

    Man produces only 3.5% of the total CO2 across the globe, the U.S. only 0.7%. Water vapor is the most significant greenhouse gas—60% of total

    It will cause net unemployment of at least 1.1 million jobs. Charles River Associates, a Harvard-based consulting form, estimated the net jobs loss at 2.5 million per year it remains in effect.

    It will result in a net decrease in GDP of $9.4 trillion by 2035.

    It is a hidden and highly regressive tax. Politicians can escape blame by having utilities, energy companies and manufacturers pass on the tax to consumers.

    It will grant massive powers to the unelected Environmental Protection Agency to intrude into every aspect of our lives, from energy use to building standards. Home sellers will have to submit to federal energy audits before they can sell their homes. The global warming czar, Carol Browner, is accountable only to President Obama, and did not have to submit to Senate confirmation. Until recently, she was a member of the Socialist International and was listed as one of 14 leaders of the group’s Commission for a Sustainable World Society, which calls for “global governance” and says rich countries must shrink their economies to address climate change.

    It will put the U.S. at great competitive disadvantage with other countries.

    It is already causing companies to transfer manufacturing to other nations.

    It is ripe for massive fraud, corruption, special exceptions, and bribery. Cap and trade was devised by Enron.

    The success or failure of cap and trade will be virtually impossible to measure in comparison with other natural factors affecting climate.

    The negative impact on our economy will make it vastly more difficult to grow our way out of our federal budgetary deficits.

    It is all pain for no gain—if passed it will constitute the greatest example of economic masochism in our nation’s history.

    No politician who votes for this abomination should be allowed anywhere near the levers of power.

    It’s also why Obama must be defeated in 2012. He not only wants to bankrupt this country with out of control spending, but he wants to destroy the economic engine which creates our wealth in the first place. He is glib and telegenic, but, at heart, an ignorant fool.

    • libertytrain

      Kendall – thank you for such a useful, well-informed post -

    • Shirley

      your description of Obama is fitting.

    • denniso

      Kendall..If writing a long winded rant meant that it is true or factual, you would be a genius..unfortunately for you, that’s not the case. You and others saying the exact same thing(party line)would have the gullible believe that the majority of scientists around the world and almost every country in existence wants to enslave you and your fellow righties! WOW! So, not just Obama and the evil lefties here, but the whole world is out to get you guys. What paranoia!!

      • DaveH

        Oh, but your Paranoia about Global Warming is perfectly acceptable? The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Woe is us!
        You keep citing that same Liberal Double-Speak that the majority of scientists accept man-made Global Warming. Prove it. Many, if not most, scientists are employed by the government. If they don’t come to the conclusions that the politicians want them to – no job, no paycheck. Do you really think they can be good scientists under those constraints? Anybody with any knowledge of science at all knows that a preconceived conclusion leads to fudging the data to match the preconception. It is just human nature. That’s why when drug-testing they have double-blind tests where neither the recipient of the test samples nor the giver of the test samples knows which are real and which are placebos.
        And there are plenty of scientists who refute the Global Warming science:
        http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2007/08/31/majority-of-scientists-dont-support-man-made-warming-theory/

        You know, Denniso, I don’t mind you making your Liberal Comments, but I do mind your constant personal attacks on others. You are nothing but a Dumbass Liberal whose ideas are based on Hopes and Dreams instead of reality and you have no business disparaging others for their ideas.

        • denniso

          Sorry D, I thought that the term,’ liberal’, might be contrued as a personal attack.

          • DaveH

            It is and deservedly so.

          • Dennis

            No your a Liberal nuff said.

          • DaveH

            And I will continue to call you a Liberal until you stop with your personal attacks on those you disagree with and start behaving like a decent human being.

          • denniso

            DaveH…The censor took out the ” from my response to you..he left yours in..maybe because you spelled it wrong. AND,get used to it..I’m one of tens of millions of liberals/progressives in my country,you’re the one in the minority.

        • http://aol Don

          More name calling by Dave.

          • DaveH

            You bet. I will give Liberals the same abuse as they give others. If you don’t like it Don, then be respectful with your comments. Quit with the personal attacks.

        • denniso

          DaveH…back to your rant above. So the repubs have controlled the presidency about 2/3 of the time since FDR. They’ve controlled congress for 6 of the last 8 yrs and most of Clinton’s terms. And you say scientists have been doing the bidding of evil liberals all this time? How can that be when repubs have shared power? And don’t you remember just a short while back, that Bush’s administration gagged and stifled scientists when they didn’t like their conclusions?? It’s common knowledge.

    • DLinND

      My Bible says that God gave man dominion over the earth, so all this global warming nonsense doesn’t matter. I think God wants us a little warmer to remind us what hell is like. I don’t care if a couple of glaciers melt away, maybe its just more land to drive my ATV on. Just keep Washington outta my pockets and let me do whatever the heck I want. Its still a free country right?

      • Lindy

        So… there’s been a lot of glaciers melting in North Dakota lately? You’re joking right?

    • one old dog

      I think you are right on, maybe you should run for office, an honest politician could be a real deal breaker for all the progressives on both sides of the aisle. ah! But then its a polluting profession, in and of its self, maybe that is where all the global warming is coming from, so we wouldn’t necessarily put an honest man in that sewer, called D. C.
      One Old Dog

  • Robert

    My God. Will these people in Washington just stop. There’re legislating us into bankruptcy. Figures Mr.I got three purple hearts the old fashioned way (lying) is behind it. And how about today’s announcement on bringing those terrorists to New York City and giving them our constitutional rights of defense? Who’s the rocket scientist that thought up that LuLu. Oh yea! Our commander in mischief. Way to go Barrack. Is this another way your shoving it up our you know what? What a joke we have for a president. ONly thing funnier are all the other politicians in Washington. And I thought Bozo the clown was gone forever. He must of found out the secret of ressurection. Probably didn’t read the instructions right because he came back as a politican.

    • JeffH

      Too funny. Cracked me up reading this.

  • http://www.gailklightfoot.com/ gail lightfoot

    We desperately need to unite our efforts under a single organization that will represent all the Liberty lovers in the country.
    Right now we are growing exponentially but as dozens of different groups. Unless we unite our scattered efforts will fail as Congress blatantly ignores our wishes.
    I have told others and I will continue to maintain that when the people are split 50-50 or close to it, Congress should NOT ACT.
    Can we all give up our pet law or agency to return to freedom for all to live their lives so long as they are peaceful.
    1) Abortion: Let the parent live with their reproductive decisions according to their beliefs and 2) let churches and other non profits provide for those in need through our voluntary support.
    Without gov’t welfare or other benefits to discuss, 3)let workers come from where ever as long as they find jobs and stay employed.
    Those are the big issues issues that divide us.
    Let sovereign states set the limits on abortion [Yes, later than th e1st Trimester is a bad idea for all concerned] and let localities provide a safety net for those in need [remember all the county hospitals? I 'trained' in one.] and let the federal govt set the rules for immigration per the Constitution.
    But let’s not let our fear of strangers keep hard working individuals from crossing the border using legal channels. Open the front door wider and allow any one who finds and keeps a job go from temporary Visa to Green Card. AS long as we know who is here, we can protect ourselves from those who would be violent. Gov’t exists to stop force or fraud. The federal gov’t needs to be limited to that function and that function only.
    Liberty,
    gail lightfoot, retired RN, PHN
    CA LP US Senate Candidate 2010

    • DaveH

      Gail Lightfoot. Why do I find that name familiar? Anyway, good luck in your quest. I would vote for you, but I’m in Arizona.

    • Lindy

      Dear Gail… that’s EXACTLY how I feel. Thanks for the post!

    • CindyL

      Gail, since you are running for office, you might want to try and get tax exemptions for churches repealed. Religious zealots hold the highest offices infiltrating every branch of government, upholding biblical views when their taxpayer funded jobs explicitly require them to uphold the Constitution of the United States instead. “The purpose of seperation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in bloof for centuries.” James Madison.
      Most don’t realize that the government gives subsidies to churches, for day care, health issues, family counciling, all while the churches are buying real estate, stocks, etc. All while claiming they are non-profit and avoiding taxes. We need to return to the Constitution, which doesn’t exempt churches from paying their fair share. Please see link for more ideas and info. http://www.Sullivan-county.com/idenity/cal-tax-exempt.htm
      Best of luck, Please help us return to a time when government was not involved in every aspect of our lives, including the religous sect. I am a Chrisitan who recognizes that government is too involved in the Church.

      • DaveH

        Cindy,
        First of all, if the Libertarians had their way, there would be no Income Tax. So whether it applied to churches or not would be a moot point.
        Second, we don’t condone social engineering. So your concerns about churches receiving day care funding, etc. would also be a moot point.

        • denniso

          Get over it DaveH..libertarians will never ‘get their way’. They’re a fringe party in a 2 party system. If you want to affect change you have to join a viable party and push what you believe in w/in that party. Nothing else works. Just some advice to an old buddy.

      • denniso

        I agree CindyL..But it’s not so much that Gov’t is in churches as it is that church is in Gov’t, like you said.

    • Dennis & Wife

      You are 100% rite but it needs to be a World Wide effort to have the efect we are looking for. Are government and many others have long forgotten that they work for us. when you read my 3 part section below on The New World Order you will no why i say that, its long but well worth the read.

      George H.W. Bush had this Comment: ” if the American people knew what we have done they would string us up from the lamp post “

  • one old dog

    The cap and trade(crap and Tax)
    It isn’t about saving the environment, its about transferring more money and power to D.C. and their fat cat friends ( Al Gore, Goldman Sachs, Ge, and many others on both sides of the aisle), and punishing us illiterates for not knowing what’s best for us. Besides some of us old farts like it warmer,when they give us the red or was it the blue pill.
    One Old Dog

    • denniso

      How old are you? Do you remember that the gov’t used cap and trade incentives to clean up nitrous oxide and sulphur dioxide, that were causing acid rain and turning lakes and rivers into toxic dumps..it worked pretty well and nobody is complaining that it bankrupted us. I guess it didn’t.

      • CindyL

        denniso, do you remember that ENBRON was the one who started the Cap and Trade idea, with the support of the Republican party? Pres Bush and Enron CEO were best of friends. What has happened with the Republican support of the concept?

  • Anuder old Dog

    Never saw anything in the Constitution mentioning parties by the founding fathers of this country. Now we have them as a Divider of our Congress and Senate. So we can forget one nation . As long as they can
    keep us fighting each other they never have to come together and do their job of representing the people. Like (One old Dog) said pick from the Red or Blue pill. And it is (Crap and Tax)the best defenders of our resources is the people–Not the Government. I find it offensive for the government to sell back our right as citizens to use our national heritage of our land.

  • Joseph

    What a joke..a liberal for years, excuse me, democrats for years have “buffaloed” so many fools who have voted democrat, that the democrat politician is always for the poor. They have been robbing you and me openly, not blindly for years…if this weren’t true, we all would be rich…but if everyone is in good prosperity, than wouldn’t it be called “socialism”?hmmmmmmm I’m not saying there aren’t some republicans who fit the above scenario, because there are. But, whoever still believes in America, open your eyes and see that our politicians are in it for greed, money. We have to vote these professional, long-term politicians out and start fresh or what little that is left of America can be “kissed” good-bye and that includes you and me. I believe I read this week, that one half of our politicians in Congress are millionaires.hmmmmmm WAKE UP, EVEN YOU DEMOCRATS/LIBERALS. GOD bless America.

  • coal miner

    Dennis&ife,

    The Rothchilds of Europe are said to be head of the illuminati.They said;Down through history poweful tyrants belong to it.It is said that it has been around since ancient times.Those who belong are.
    Ancient pharaohs:
    Kings:
    All of the Caesars:
    The popes:
    Napoleon:
    modern day tyrants:
    Josef Stalin:
    Hitler:
    Mussolini:
    Most of our presidents:
    The list goes on.
    All are blood related.

    • Dennis & Wife

      Thats why i say that everybody in all Nation’s that wont to be FREE needs to fight back before its to late.

  • denniso

    D and wife..you’ve got to be kidding me!!

    • Dennis & Wife

      No i’m not kidding BOY.

      • DaveH

        Dennis,
        He’s not a boy, he’s a 9-year old girl.

        • http://aol Don

          More name calling, but you enjoy it.

    • coal miner

      Denniso,

      We both can sleep tonight,it just a fantasy.Wow! The World Order would make a good movie.

      • denniso

        Coal miner..your right, it is a fantasy by these guys here and would make a fun fictional movie…by the way, I think you said you were an actual coal miner..I want to say I respect and admire your hard and dangerous work! A little tougher job than playing w/ stocks.

        • coal miner

          Denniso,

          I am retired now.Thank you, for that nice post.

  • denniso

    Write a book, so I don’t have to see this baloney..give it a rest!!!

    • Dennis & Wife

      We are. But you will see the truth on here BOY like it or not.

      • DaveH

        LOL. But she’s not a boy, she’s a nine-year-old girl named Gabriel.

        • Dennis

          WOW a 9 year old on this site. LOL No Wonder we are here, Good Luck.

        • denniso

          Funny…

        • denniso

          I guess if you believe Limbaugh and his cronies than you’ll believe anything??

      • kathleen

        dennis & wife — first, I’d like to give my condolences to “wife,” who apparently has no name. i thought when women finally won the right to vote, we also won the right to be full human beings, and not just a no-name attachment to a man — my mistake.

        i would like to point out to the rednecks on this site, that calling someone a liberal is not an insult. it’s a compliment. so, if you want to insult us, you need to come up with something original.

        i’d also like to point out that, contrary to what “dennis and wife” say, this is the LAST place i’d check for the truth, other than for a very few commentors — of whom, denniso is one.

        • denniso

          Kathleen…I like it!! another smart person finally to join the few here..I was refraining from debating Dennis and Wife because I couldn’t quite figure out what they were trying to say. Thanks for helping me see. By the way, I think they’re stealing part of my name.

        • JeffH

          …like “redneck” is original.

          • libertytrain

            JeffH – I’ve always interpreted “red neck” to be the hard-working class of folks – rather than those who sit on their bums proclaiming their incredible education — sitting and waiting for the next government handout —- red necks are too busy working and paying their way to be bothered by such ilk.

          • denniso

            I’m afraid there are 2 different definitions for redneck…an early one that really only meant a hard worker doing outside,physical work. unfortunately, it devolved into meaning an uneducated,crude,non communicative and backward person,usually a man. It shouldn’t have to mean that, but it usaually does.
            I grew up like an original redneck..digging ditches,making adobes,drimking and driving,building houses, chasing women like a dog,playing macho sports and unable to articulate or communicate very well…luckily for society, I went to college and started reading GOOD books and transformed myself over a 25yr period.It wasn’t easy!

          • libertytrain

            Actually Denniso – there are more definitions to the original word Redneck than you mentioned – so it’s a matter of choice to decide which one any of us prefers.

        • JeffH

          …let the “luvfest” begin. “this is the LAST place i’d check for the truth, other than for a very few commentors — of whom, denniso is one.” Have you been to MSNBC’s Newsvine…I hear you could have all the moral support over there.
          http://top.newsvine.com/

        • Dennis

          LOL. ” RedNeck ” I guess that if I and denniso disagree and we do :-) Well i just might be a redneck, Or how about this, If Kathleen has no idea what denniso was responding to me about to begin with :-) Well she just might be a dummmm Redneck :-).

    • Dennis

      The New World Order will be SOCIALISM. Read the United Nations declarations and treaties for proof of this fact. The individual will be subservient to the state. Rights and power reside in and derive from the state, not the individual.

      • denniso

        Dennis..I seem to remember that the first Bush talked about a new world order..was he a socialist too?

        • Dennis

          Socialist ? No. For NWO ? Yes. Just like his son. Most President are.

  • denniso

    You’ve just clogged up this post all by yourself w/ nothing anybody will spend an hour reading..let’s hope it gets pulled down for too many words!

  • Dennis

    I see they dont allow the truth here, unless your a 9 yr old, Good luck with that.

  • Claire

    Heads Up!!! Click on “New Credit Card Act May Help Protect Assets” and read my post. I don’t want to type it again.

    • JeffH

      Another heads up regarding Congressman Devin Nunes (R-CA)
      What liberals want to create:

      The Democrat “tri-committee” health care reform bill is now being debated. Read the Ways and Means Republicans “dissenting views” concerning passage of HR 3200 by clicking here.

      Read an open letter to physicians by Congressman Nunes here.

      The new system, envisioned by the President and his Democratic colleagues, would control healthcare costs by rationing benefits and setting prices. It would destroy the remnants of the free market currently associated with American healthcare. Innovation would be slashed, choice would be limited and the problems currently experienced by Medicaid beneficiaries would be thrust upon the rest of the nation. In short, healthcare in America would experience a devolution to the lowest common denominator.

      A better way: The Patients’ Choice Act

      In sharp contrast to the President’s BIG-government plan, my colleagues and I have proposed legislation that centers on choice, affordability and quality. In our view, the American people deserve a healthcare system that is centered on their individual needs. Our bill, The Patients’ Choice Act, will allow us to achieve this goal, while improving health outcomes, lowering cost and guaranteeing access to healthcare for every single American.

      H.R. 2520, The Patients’ Choice Act (legislative text)
      > short bill summary
      > long bill summary
      > questions and answers

      • JeffH
        • DaveH

          Jeff,
          The Patients Choice Act is no solution; it is slight of hand. The best way to rejuvenate our health care system is to get government out of it. As long as their foot is in the door things are going to be messed up.
          I realize that people are so heavily propagandized that freedom in health care will be a very hard sell. But that is the only way to get us back to cheap, quality healthcare. Read this article please:
          http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279

        • DaveH

          This proposed Patients Choice Act is an example of why we need to get rid of Republicans too. They are also growing Federal Government (albeit more slowly). We need people in there who will shrink Federal Government back to its Constitutionally mandated size.
          There are two things they could do that are allocated to them by the Constitution. First, allow citizens to buy insurance across state lines (no government panels, just simply state that citizens can buy insurance across state lines with no state interference). Second, change the income tax laws so that health insurance premiums are fully deductible (better yet, get rid of the income tax).
          I’m pretty sure that tort reform is a matter for the states to address, but the bill could encourage states to adopt tort reform.
          I don’t know who controls the medical licensing, but that needs to be addressed too. Also, the prescription laws need to be addressed, so patients can choose to buy antibiotics without a doctor’s approval. Mexicans can do it, why can’t we?
          In other words, get Big Government out of our medical choices!

          • denniso

            So DaveH…you want to get rid of Medicare? And the VA healthcae system too? Naturally you would dump Medicaid as well because the poor and children have no ‘right’ to healthcare,right??

  • JeffH

    Update: More Than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

    Outpouring of Skeptical Scientists Continues as 59 Scientists Added to Senate Report

    ‘The ­science has, quite simply, gone awry’

    http://current.com/http://www.epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=10fe77b0-802a-23ad-4df1-fc38ed4f85e3

    • DaveH

      There you go with those pesky facts Jeff. I hope you’re happy. Now we’re going to have to hear more personal attacks from the board Liberal.

      • JeffH

        Gee DaveH, this was published by the United States Senate, a part of the US government. That link will take anyone there, including the naysayers.

    • denniso

      Assuming your number of 700 is correct, maybe,it means nothing if you don’t put it in the context of the total number of scientists around the world. What is the number?? 20,000? 30,000? What’s the % of dissenters?

      • DaveH

        Can you read Denniso?
        From the article:
        “The over 700 dissenting scientists are now more than 13 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers”.

        • denniso

          Get a grip DaveH..52 UN scientists ‘authored’ the report…How many scientists do they represent, DaveH??

      • DaveH

        Any Liberal can make up numbers and Double-Speak. People know that.

        • denniso

          No reply DaveH??? You throw out meaningless numbers and then go quiet when challenged?

  • Dennis

    When Adolf Hitler was building his power base in Germany some people woke up and realized what was going on. Some were sounding the alarm to what they saw happening, but these people were largely ignored. Some Jews listened and left the country. Some Germans listened and left. Those who ignored the warnings soon found themselves living in tyranny, and wondered how it could have happened. The same warning signs are being shouted from the rooftops in Australia and America today. Yet people are too busy with everyday things to stop and think. As in the 1930′s, people are going to be shocked when they lose their freedoms.

    • denniso

      OK, so you and dave and jeff can leave..let the smart people fix the mess in peace.

      • DaveH

        I feel sorry for you guys. You can not win the war of words, so instead you must pursue personal attacks. But anyone who reads your comments with an open mind knows who has the problem. You are your own worst enemy.

        • denniso

          DaveH..isn’t ‘war of words’ the same thing as ‘personal attack’? Maybe you mean, we can’t win the battle of intellects so we resort to personal attacks. Better?
          AND, you’ve got it wrong..we pity people like you and DaveH and Dennis/wife for holding onto so much anger and fantasy..difficult to enjoy life like that.

          • JeffH

            All those years of LSD has taken its toll on your brain. What a waste of human flesh.

          • denniso

            JeffH…I’d be willing to place a bet that I’ve used fewer drugs than you and most of the people on this site. Care to bet??

  • Dennis

    People have slowly been deskilled in recent years. Mechanics no longer FIX a problem so much as they REPLACE the component. Body and fender men no longer beat panels so much as they replace plastic moldings. I am in a trade myself and my trade has been deskilled in similar ways. I have talked with other tradesmen and this is happening in all trades.

    Of course technological progress will bring about change but deskilling goes far beyond this. For example many car parts now come as a complete totally enclosed unit, if a small part breaks down the whole unit must be replaced. Less skill is required to loosening a few screws and install a new unit than to repair the component. Yet it would be cheaper and less wasteful to fix the unit. This deskilling is intended to make the new society wholly dependent on the system. People will be unable to maintain private transport and will become dependent upon public infrastructure and the STATE. This is why small farming has been replaced with large scale operations. In Australia for instance, the farming industry has been all but destroyed. Most farmers are deep in debt because of rising interest rates (and all fiat money) and loss of markets due to the government programs of economic rationalism opening the doors to cheaper imported produce.

    Many people have been lured into dependence on the state through welfare programs such as the single mother pensions. Such easily obtained benefits encourage people to rely upon government support. The more one is dependent upon the State the more one is bound to State rules. I am not against helping those who need support, I am trying to explain the principle involved. The welfare system is a plank towards socialism

  • Dennis

    Currently the United Nations is trying to establish the framework for an international criminal court. When this is established the United Nations will be able to detain anyone from any nation and bring them before a panel of judges who will hear the case and pass judgment. This international court will deal with are ‘crimes against humanity’ and ‘environmental crimes.’ If you think there is nothing wrong with this I suggest you read how the U.N. defines ‘environmental crime.’ A system is being created whereby those in control will be empowered to manufacture a crime and arrest anyone they deem a threat. The courts have no jury, one is guilty until proven innocent, and there is no appeal. Also, because this Court is international, and your nation has surrendered its authority, your own country cannot protect you. This is going to affect YOU directly!

    • denniso

      Hate to tell you this, but there is a world court already…you’d better pack..take your wife w/ you.

    • JeffH

      The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice

      • denniso

        AND WE BELONG TO IT,CORRECT??

  • Dennis

    Global Warming,Climate Control,The Copenhagen Tready, Are all just a LIE. The Health Care Reform Bill is just that a BILL a Very Large Bill That will lead to Government Control / Socialism / NWO.

  • DaveH

    Ok, here are some questions to ask yourself. Why are the Liberals so frantically embracing Global Warming? Why are they in such a rush to ram new technologies and taxes down our throats?
    From Denniso’s own cited article they claim the earth has warmed .75C in the last hundred years. Have any of you noticed that the coastal cities have been flooded? I didn’t think so. So what if we continued and temperatures rose by another ¾ of a degree in 100 years? Catastrophe? Doubtful. Will any of us be alive then? Will even our children be alive then? So why the rush?
    Keep in mind that the very same Liberals who are going to tax us to death to save us from that supposed catastrophe don’t seem to care a lick about our children’s and our grandchildren’s future as evidenced by the huge Federal Budget deficits they are running and by the $12 trillion dollar national debt we now have. They are so transparent to me.
    This is an excellent article about Global Warming:
    http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

    • JeffH

      DaveH, your last paragraph answered all the questions and spoke volumes about the people running our government.

    • denniso

      DaveH…we aren’t ‘frantically embracing’ anything…we actually listen to scientific consensus and think we have a real problem to fix and in the process even save your and your grandkids rear ends. You can thank us later.

      • JeffH

        Your type of scientific consesus is Al “bore” Gore’s scientists.

    • KokomoJoe

      Thank you, DaveH!
      Went to site you recommended and enjoyed every page of sound, sane science – NOT scientific consensus, which means NOTHING.

      Have all you “AGW” lemmings gone to this site?
      No! You’re afraid of reality, eh?

      Again, thank you, DaveH.

  • jason fulton

    sirs it seems that our wishes on healthcare are falling on deaf ears.what part of WE DONT WANT GOVT HEALTHCARE do you people not understand?your talking of raising our income taxes to pay for it.we pay enough taxes already.You use misinformation to lie to us.You try to direct our attention to other subjects to keep us away from the real issues.now we have a president that will most likely sign the Copenhagen climate control treaty which signs our sovernty away putting us under a 1 world government.global warming has been proven wrong by thousands of private scientists that does not work for the U.S.or the united nations.
    the hate crime bill that was attached to the defence bill is against the 1st amendment freedom of speech.it is designed after the laws they have in europe and canada where they have been arresting ministers for preaching to homosexuals.the federal hate crimes bill that we have in place was good enough.anytime you start limiting are rights they are not rights any longer they are called Priveleges!these bills and treaty is nothing but a power grab to take our country and freedom.i say this with sincerity we the people will see you on ELECTION DAY! thank you jason fulton

  • coal miner

    Jeffh,

    I ran out replies.You watch too many T.V. shows.It is rats,they warn you of a cave in.We wear special equiptment that monitored concentrations of gases that can be lethal.lack of Oxygen is not the problem,it these other things we worry about.

    • JeffH

      coal miner, FYI, Chill! I was just having a little fun with it. Nothing more than that.

  • SONNY E.

    GENTLMEN, GENTLEMEN, CAN’T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG. EVERY-ONE HAS PROBLEM’S, FOR ONE I’M TRYING TO FIGHT TO KEEP MY JOB. I’VE MISSED OUT ON SOME OF THE LASTEST NEW’S. BEAR WITH ME IF YOU’VE BECOME BOARDED. I THANK’S EVERY-ONE FOR THE INPUT, IT MADE FOR SOME GOOD READING. I DON’T NEED TO ADDTO THIS, BUT IDON’T BELIEVE IN A GLOBAL GOVERMENT , THAT’S.AND THAT’S LET’S FIX OUR MESS —–FIRST. RIGHT?

    • KokomoJoe

      Good Lord, Sonny E

      What an illiterate statement!?!!

  • http://www.personalliberty.com/news/republicans-boycott-committee-vote-on-climate-bill-19448506/ Sodbuster

    Okay gang, many very insightful comments out there, though I haven’t read every one. I follow the Copenhagen Climate Change that will result in a binding treaty. Obama is in China now and I believe He will visit Denmark also. The big meeting is scheduled for December of 2009 but apparently a binding agreement won’t be written until 2010. The change that Obama spoke of is this: We will no longer focus on what is good for the USA our focus has changed to the “Global Community.” Obama wants to do what is the best for the whole world not the USA. (Possible since he drives the bus we are just passengers.) The USA is vulnerable because USA led the way during the “Industrial Revolution,” which most Liberals equate to the birth of Gobal Climate Change. The USA will probably pay a heavy price. The World will become more socialistic and in my opinion Copenhagen Treaty will establish the framework for a one world government. Good or bad? I can’t say but I believe a decrease in our standard of living is inevitable based upon my research. I’ve always thought we were the “good guys” but clearly Obama does not based upon the way he represents our nation apologetically to the world. We will pay.

    • denniso

      There WILL NOT be any meaningful agreement on climate change..quit whining!!If and when it does happen,it won’t be big enough to affect our economy or individuals directly..probably not enough to help w/ warming either. So, move out of the SW part of the country and back to places that have ample water while it’s still cheap to do so.

      • CindyL

        denniso, since they found water on the moon, our next step will be trying to get all the water out of it, thus killing our moon. Just a little foresight into how us humans will use our knowledge now. LLOL.

        • denniso

          Maybe we can all agree that we should quit blowing holes in the moon for our own selfish purposes?

          • CindyL

            My husband was trying to make a point that humans are never going to change how we treat our planet. We went for a drive, his point was well made after seeing such trash along the roadway. We do not respect this earth, never have and never will. We need to accept the fact that it is a doomed planet and the human race lives in denial. We don’t take responsibility for the vanishing species of animals, the depletion of resources, pollution of waters, so it is normal for us to never accept that our own environment has been sullied by us humans. If you can’t get people to stop trashing the roadways, why do you think they will stop polluting the air or the waters? It is too late to have an impact, so you need to concentrate on things you can change. Best of Luck.

  • KokomoJoe

    Poor CindyL!(aka Henny Penny of “thr sky is falling”.

    Same old claptrap from the tree-hugger: “we don’t respect this earth . . .”

    We, the United States, have the cleanest water, air, environs of the entire industrial world.

    So much more to say but it would fall on deaf ears, right CindyL?

  • KokomoJoe

    DaveH says:

    GO HERE:
    (to keep your sanity, or if you’ve lost it, you’ll find sanity here)
    This is an excellent article about Global Warming:
    http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

    November 15, 2009 at 4:15 pm
    Ok, here are some questions to ask yourself. Why are the Liberals so frantically embracing Global Warming . . . ?

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