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Republican Lawmakers Criticize NPS Ammunition Ban Proposal

October 9, 2009 by  

Republican lawmakers criticize NPS ammunition ban proposal A group of 13 U.S. senators sent a letter to Department of the Interior Secretary Ken Salazar complaining about the National Park Service’s (NPS) attempts to ban the use of traditional ammunition in parks that allow hunting.

The signatories, who are all Republicans, allege the ban will have a negative effect on hunters, the economy and wildlife populations.

"Especially in these difficult economic times, this action will discourage people from hunting and fishing and decrease revenue into the Pittman-Robertson fund that funds state conservation efforts," the senators stated in the letter.

Their move was praised by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), a trade association for the industry, which called the ban "arbitrary, over-reactive and not based on science," and voiced concerns over the NPS making "unilateral actions" to control gun use.

Earlier this year the NPS banned the use of traditional lead ammunition for park personnel who cull sick and wounded animals, and announced it was considering extending the ban to all hunters in U.S. parks. The proposal stems from NPS concerns over studies that have suggested lead bullet fragments in game meat could cause lead poisoning in humans, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report.

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  • David

    Have you ever had Dove pie……don’t swallow the buckshot. What’s the big deal?

    • JeffH

      I’ve spit out buckshot and have broken a tooth with steel shot!
      Should we ban steel shot because it is hazardous to one health?

    • JeffH

      No park plan to ban lead
      By Cory Hatch, Jackson Hole, Wyo.
      October 8, 2009

      National Park Service Director Jon Jarvis said he has no plans to ban lead bullets and fishing tackle in parks but said nonlead alternatives are a good option for hunters and sportsmen.

      “It really was intended to mean that the National Park Service, in our own operations … would move away from lead ammo,” Jarvis said.

      Jarvis didn’t rule out a transition to nonlead ammunition in parks, calling it a broad goal that “is going to take a long time.”

      • eyeswideopen

        No, jeffie, I was having too much fun. Was going to post info later tonight after you all got so riled up you would start spitting bullets.lol…. By the way a demo senator from OKC also signed the letter from the repubs. But I didn’t want to make that a big deal. Hope you can sleep tonight, I wouldn’t have let you suffer much longer, honest.

  • eyeswideopen

    29 Countries have restrictions on lead Ammunition. 2 have banned all forms of lead. 6 have partial bans on lead bullets. 4 banned lead shot for all hunters.
    Increasingly strict regulations imposed on the use of lead ammunition is a growing trend internationally.
    Scandinavian countries have led the way in a full ban on lead ammunition, Denmark in 2000 and Sweden in 2008.
    http://www.peregrinefund.org/Lead_conference/pdf/0115%20Avery.pdf

    So, this ban is not an attempt to take away your gun rights.

    • David

      I never said it did sissy.

      • JeffH

        She is the TROLL whose point proves nothing except there are foreign governments that have lead bans. Foreign governments are just that, foreign.
        You take care of your dirty laundry, I’ll take care of mine.

    • JeffH

      There is no “confirmed scientific evidence” that lead fragments from bullets contribute to wild game lead poisening, or lead poisening in humans for ingesting wild game with possible lead fragments.
      There is a lead ban Nationaly for Migratory bird hunting that has been in place, since the early 90′s, because of lead shot being distributed in concentrated hunting areas where waterfowl congregate en mass. There is also a lead ban in the range of the California Condor to protect them from possible lead ingestion, as hunters play a vital role in maintaining the health of the Condors that use the cleaned carcasses for food, although critics reluctantly support the ban, they also have proven that contaminated water sources and animal borne disease have contributed to the Condor’s demise.
      Ammunition manufacturers are gearing up and developing non-toxic bullets but the performance issues and costs will be very high as were non-toxic shotshells.
      I don’t like, don’t support it, but the threat is very real one.

      • JeffH

        The foreign influence holds no water in this blog!

        • eyeswideopen

          Jeff, we are all aware of how self centered you and your crew are. You let us know that at every turn. I am sure you are so proud to be the citizens of the world who don’t give a crap about anybody but yourselves. You are why this country got such a bad rap, when it comes to using the worlds resources. Behold the radials view of the world. (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT), I will do anything, use anything and blow up anything I want too. I am more important than you are because ????? Why are you more important than others Jeff? Christians behold, your brother who will not give up anything for anybody!!!! Funny, funny man.

          • ccg

            Eyes, I challenge you to talk like a decent human being and not call names and spew hatred. I don’t think you can, as you are not able. A garbage mouth is a garbage mouth.

          • eyeswideopen

            CCG, I used to,however I just got tired of the bad treatment and decided to act just as nasty as the majority of people on this site. You haven’t been here for the past two months, listening to the threats of civil war against our country and I guess it just got to me by now. When I would dispute their statements with facts, which happen to be from the previous admin. they couldn’t believe that a Republican could be objective about her own party. You are right, if you read anything prior to a week ago, I was a very nice person, and I have let the hate get to me.

  • Robin from Indiana

    This may not seem like an attempt against gun rights, but it certainly can be the start of losing gun rights. Those who voted for ‘change’ thought they would see good things happen. Those who didn’t had their eyes open to what could happen….

  • http://powerof5usa.blogspot.com Mike Avery

    Who are the 13 GOP senators? Would like to “share” on FB & Twitter, but the 13 should be identfied.

  • Jack Kinch(1uncle)

    We have a growing population, many wanting more government to care for them sacrificing
    freedoms. No amnesty. No more creating demos on welfare.

  • s c

    I’m not a hunter. However, banning traditional ammunition from parks that allow hunting makes as much sense as trying to talk a deer or a bear to death. What’s next? Hunters will have to resort to using under-powered slingshots or throwing rocks?
    Time after time, when bureaucrats get together to render decisions like this, they prove that Darwin is a first-class liar and that mankind is devolving. Washington just gets dumber.
    And we have to pay these people for being so stupid?
    How can anybody justify having a government that is best described as mentally incompetent?

  • RM

    I do not care in any way or form what another foreign country bans. I reside in the United States and have NO Interest in Anti-Gun BS. I have hunted for over fifty years and have used lead shot and bullets and could careless about some study. I moved to California six years ago and this state has a ban on lead where the Condors range is. To me this is some more BS for a carrion eating bird. I can not eat a Condor and I’m only concerned about the Wildlife that I can hunt for food not about lead bullets or shot. It is just another way to push this country into socialism. Another Government Flub

    • eyeswideopen

      I would tell you to move to another country, but it looks like most countries are passing the same ban against the lead bullets. So, you won’t have anywhere to go to, would you? So Sad.

      • RM

        Yes you won’t have a place to go either.

    • ccg

      I agree exactly. When you shoot an animal such as a deer it dies. It’s circulatory system is not active any more and the lead stays right there, and is not spread around into the rest of the animal or the part that you would eat.
      I can see the buckshot for the birds idea since all of the buckshot does not go into the bird, and some is on the ground.
      It does appear though to be a control thing. Make the cost go up on something, then charge more taxes on it.

  • RM

    I Could careless who the 13 are or could be. Yes you who voted for
    ” Change ” well your getting change but not what you expected.
    I believe those who want gun control should be either Shot or Hung for Treason. If you do not like firearms then do not purchase any and mind your own business.These politicians are a disgrace to this country and to the people to whom they should be serving, not the people serving them.

  • Lawrence Craig

    This ban on ammunition is further evidence that liberalism is a mental disorder. When they banned lead shotgun shells for water foul hunting,the director of E.P.A at that time,would not let the state of Calif.dept of fish and game present their facts at the hearing in Wash.D.C. There minds are made up don’t confuse us with the facts.Its time to vote these liberal democrats or republicans out of office as soon as we can.

    • eyeswideopen

      Lawrence you need to go back to top and read additional info.

  • Leila

    I wonder if the National Park Services has taken a political stance against mercury in thermisol, used in vaccinations. We need to conscript them!

    • eyeswideopen

      If they wanted to take your rights away, they could just ban hunting on Federal Lands. Maybe they should let the public vote on that issue, see how it plays out.

      • rockeye

        Eyeswideshut,It Seems Clear That You Scored High At The Government school You Went To,don’t Feel Bad My Daughter Attended One Too.At 26Yrs old She Voted For Obama For Change,While We Do Need Change,This Is Not The Change We need.The Change Is In Congress.WE THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE.We Need To Pass The Fair Tax.Please Check
        It Out.Go To Boortz .com

      • rockeye

        Eyeswideshut,clearly,You Have A Government Education As You Only Know What You Learned In Class.You Really Need To Take A Little Time From This Site And Sine Up For A Class At Hillsdale Collage And Learn The Rest Of The Story Of America,The Constitution And The Bill Of Rights Probably For The First Time In Your Life.You Can Take A Shortcut And Get Mark Levin’s Book Liberty And Tyranny.Get An Education.

    • David

      Environmentalists such as Eyes “rimfire” wide open, do not care about your children. They only want to control every aspect of your life. I have a nephew and neice that both became autistic at the age of 3 or 4 after a round of immunizations…so I’m with you. Also stay the heck away from the H1N1 vac if you care about your loved ones.

  • Adam

    Dude what is the big deal!!!! Lead shot has been used for centuries since the first bullets were made and now all of the sudden its this big problem just more big govern
    ment if you ask me, what else are they going to try and run or should I say ruin, they wont be happy tell we are all robots or puppets they can control and dictate to. Plus I’m a hunter and I can tell you from experiance I have lost lots of wounded game due to the fact that steal shot is so light and has not got as much punch now what is more humane? killing the animal or wounding only to have it survive and suffer? I tell you Teddy Rosevelts rolling over in his grave!!! Just another attempt at takeing away our second ammendment rights thats all nothing more nothing less!!!!

    • JeffH

      Any movement, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem, is still considered movement.

      • eyeswideopen

        Other countries ban lead and it is not political, but here in America somehow you take an environmental issue and turn it into a “taking my guns away” scream. I put the post there so you could see that it isn’t some conspiracty against gun owners here in the states. It is a world wide concern and technology has advanced to the point that you don’t need to have lead in bullets. When will you all join the 21st Century? You will use the AK47′,s and other high tech firearms, but you won’t upgrade your bullets? You just use this as another scare tactic to rile up the base about “taking our guns away”. LMAO

        • JeffH

          TROLL, you don’t know what kind of bullets I use or what type of guns I own. Your arguement is based on foreign governments, not America.
          You obviously haven’t read all of the posts!

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, I heard what you hunters are saying,,,,, price will go up to 44.00 per box. Well, dude, all sports have a cost, and all sports have increases, such is life. If you can’t afford it, well, then you can’t afford it. People had to stop using their boats during the gas crisis and if you guys are as good as you brag, then you won’t need that many of the more expensive bullets. Sport, you are in a sport. technology advances and you can’t stay back in the time of the musket. Like it or not time moves on.

    • ccg

      Adam, I agree with you. There are even some states that you can only by weapons made in that state or made for that state. Now that sure makes sense. Another control issue. This is the United States.

      • David

        I think, but I could be wrong, but Texas and maybe Montana were looking at that option. If the gun and ammo are purchaed inside those state lines…then the feds can not control their use. That was the plan if gun control legislation was passed.

  • http://ammunitionbanproposal C. Taylor

    Everyone must understand. If you give the government an inch they will take a mile. It does not matter what it may be. Anything they can put their hands on. I think everyone forgets what rights mean. Your right may not be the same as my right but it is still a right and everyone should stand together. Do not let the government fool you they are like thieves in the night.

  • tagley

    The lead scare is completely overblown due to some negligent parents too high on heroin to take care of their kids and the kids ate the paint chips off the windowsill, probably because there was no food in the cupboard. I can remember several times helping my dad paint fence with lead based paint and then doing the cleanup of brushes and hands with gasoline and yes the gas was lead based too, remember ethyl? I have yet to have any health problem and graduated from college with a 3.7 gpa, phi theta kappa.

    • eyeswideopen

      Tagley, you are a selfish person, they aren’t so worried about you as they are the wildlife. You may have graduated with a 3.7, but you definately have a brain drain going on, when it comes to thinking about others. Guess what
      children got sick in hospitals who had lead paint in them, they were being fed there so, your premise doesn’t work with that little drivel. Do you also suck on an exhaust pipes? I bet you don’t stop at stop signs either.LOL

      • ccg

        Eyes, that’s the kettle calling the pot black. You are not only the most selfish, but you are not the expert on EVERYTHING like you think you are.
        These guys know what they are talking about. You are like a persistent gnat that just won’t go away. You have no purpose but to annoy.

      • WAYNE

        Eyes, do you think that maybe people that were eating paint may have ingested more than just the lead. You need to stop believing everything that some agency publishes.

        Here is a real life example. My Uncle was shot with lead shot (180 lead pellets) that hit his right shoulder and his back. Many of the pellets could not be removed during surgery to try and save his arm. He still has lead pellets in his body and every once in a while he can feel one under his skin so he cuts his skin and takes it out. Shouldn’t he have died from lead poisoning by now. You see this happened in 1954 and he is now 83 yrs old in perfect health.

        • David

          That’s right. Lead only leaches out at a certain pH which is way more acidic than the human body.

        • JeffH

          WAYNE, the TROLL will not believe your story because her mind won’t allow it. To the TROLL, that just can’t be possible.

          • Get it right.

            JEFFH, you are disrespectful. That Eyes, person has not given you an ugly nick name, and I am sure she is frustrated with your comments, which you really need to understand are not always right. It is easy to attack someone when you are in the majority, it is hard to be the one who will come out and not agree with the crowd. Some of you here seem to be intelligent, however your tactics are like what my children used to use, when they were trying to intimidate someone to get their own way. It shows you can’t match her with ideas or words, when you reduce yourself to disrespecting. Why can’t you discuss without getting so defensive about the Republican Party? I am one, and I know we made mistakes, but we need to learn from each other.

        • RM

          I agree Wayne, I should be dead to. I was shot and still have the lead in my leg from over forty years ago. And NO I did not shoot myself on purpose or by accident. It was a city boy first time in the woods. This is why they have Hunters Safety Classes which I’m all for 100%.

  • Gomer

    Eyes, The more you write, the more of a jerk you become.

    • s c

      Gomer, I’d like to see eyes and that ilk try and talk a wolverine to death. It’s possible that an ultralib yahoo could put a wolverine to sleep just by mouth-flapping.
      Eyes goofed again. Wacko ultralibs are supposed to respond to every feedback posted on this site (aren’t they? after all, they know so much about every topic).
      Most of them remind me of kids at the 7th grade level. They can’t shut up, and when they open their mouths, you never know what will come out next. It will rarely make any sense, and they will be outraged if you think their comments aren’t equal to anything Einstein ever wrote.
      Hopefully, eyes will (one day) read and comprehend English at the 7th grade level before obama destroys America. Five dollars says it won’t happen.

      • RM

        SC I’m with you.

  • rockeye

    I Fell I To This Site By misake

  • http://wdfrogmorgan@gmail.com Wayne Morgan

    I’m with RM.This should not even be an issue.Aren’t there more issues to be addressed? If you can’t control drugs coming into this country, how do you think you can control guns? Wait, I’ve got an idea, another government agency. Don’t get me started.I was in a court house several years ago.This kid walks up to another house, a kid that lived there owed him money. The kid came to the door and was shoot. It didn’t kill him, but I’m sure it wasn’t pleasant. The shooter got probation. Justice system, no fault.

    • RM

      Wayne,
      You are correct. There are many more important issues in this country than idiot liberals wanting to take our guns. But what will they want to take next. pelosi wants to have a national tax above and beyond what we already pay in local, state and federal taxes. pelosi and the rest of the liberals are Out of Touch with the real issues and the working people of this country. They want to Spread the Wealth, no problem let them spread there wealth, oh no they want to spread everyone elses wealth not theres. To me it amounts to nothing more than the government wanting to control every aspect of ones life, just like a socialist country.

  • RM

    Some of you folks keep bringing up what Europe does. If you like Europe so well then move there. As I said before I will continue to hunt and shoot with or without this governments consent and those of you who do not want firearms is fine with me just keep it to yourself cause I DO NOt Care To Hear IT Anymore. I will protect my right to have firearms, and if you tinkerbell liberals donot like that too bad!! It is just another means for the government to erode more of our rights so they can tell us what we can or can not do. These politicians work for me, not the other way around.

    • JeffH

      RM, now the accusations of promoting a civil war and violence will be tossed at your comments.

      • RM

        JeffH, I’m only one of thousands of people who have the same feelings as I have. Trying to reason with idiots is like trying to talk a grizzly bear out of mauling you.It is my choice to defend my rights as I see fit. You are the one who mentioned a civil war and violence.
        I’m only advocating protecting my rights. I’m not a politician and I really do not care for politics. This issue of gun control started years ago and it is still being fought in our court sytems. To me it is not for politicians or courts to decide. The Constitution was written long before these modern day politicians were born.It seems to me with all the town meetings that have taken place in this country and which I have attended,you would think the politicians would have opened there eyes and heard and seen for themselves that it is not going to fly anymore, the excuses are gone. We have had enough of the politicians telling us what we need or do not need. And it seems like voting acomplishes nothing more than electing more idiots. It is We The People, Not We the Politicians.

  • http://none Paul

    I hear that spent Uranium is a good substitute for lead. LMAO

  • RM

    If the liberals want to do something constructive How about not allowing foreigners hunting and fishing licenses. We have a large population of Hmongs where I reside. They were just busted a week ago poaching deer not one but four or five deer per car. Since I have resided here in CA. I have seen these folks poach game and fish and guess who the game wardens and rangers stop to check licenses, not the Hmongs but the white caucasion folks, me included. When you ask they tell you ” Well we can issue a sitation but they just get an attorney and say Me No Understand and the court system lets them off. I say no understand No License. Just the other day some Hmongs were in the local gun shop purchasing night vision. I wonder what they will be doing with those night vision goggles?????? Not Poaching!!!!

    • JeffH

      RM, I live in Clovis and there is a large Hmong population in Fresno.
      I haven’t seen or experienced any problems with them, and those I have met seem pretty nice. I am aware of the poaching problems, gill netting, and overlimit fishing, and hunting that certainly has been a huge problem in California. With the influx of Cambodians, Laosians, Hmongs, that were brought to this country after the Viet Nam war. there has been problems with them grasping our laws. California has about 350 game warden, not nearly enough to protect our wildlife. I heard that the cost to California is upwards of 100 million dollars a year in looses to poachers.
      I have no real quarrel with alternatives to lead, as with you, and there is always the anti-gun advocates that will try to abuse the intention of the laws which lead to further gun control.

      • eyeswideopen

        Jeff, see HR 3749, and guess what it had 16 Repub sponsors along with 9 Dem’s. See they aren’t out to get the gun owners.

        • JeffH

          eyes, this is wonderful and should be. I am sure you understand that there is and always will be, the Holders, Feinsteins, Bloombergs, Boxers, Pelosis, Schumers and Obamas, along with the anti-gun advocates that have and will introduce legislation to deprive law abiding gun owner of their Second Amendment rights. The record stands on its own, that is why the NRA, Gun Owners of America, NSSF and other pro gun groups along with the support of the people fight them. If the lawmakers would stop these frivolous attempts to restrict ammunition purchases, force gun manufacturers to create guns that would put a micro-stamp on ammunition, limit the number of FFL licenseholders are all just backdoor attempts to limit, eliminate or make gun ownership cost prohibitive.
          They will always be there and there will always be those that don’t like guns that think these types of laws will stop the criminals from having access to guns.
          I have never considered raising my guns on another human being, not even close, because I realize the consequences and I care. I also know that if one does point a gun at another, one better be ready to use it. Gun safety is always first and foremost my priority whether in the field or at the range, and I don’t hesitate to correct another that is mishandling their guns in an unsafe manner.
          If the lawmakers would stop these frivolous

          • eyeswideopen

            Why don’t you try to get a petition going for the micro stamping of the bullets? I know that you are a responsible gun owner, but some don’t show any respect for the power and dire consequences that it holds.

          • JeffH

            Micro stamping would make gun mnfg.cost prohibitive, and has already been researched.

          • JeffH

            eyeswideopen, if the lawmakers and law enforcement did their jobs correctly, our gun problems would probably not be as big an issue.
            Violent gun crimes by illegals is a major problem in America, especialy in areas like Los Angeles and southern California. When people like Nancy Pelosi stand up and say “leave them alone” and want America to turn the other way regarding capture and deportation, their criminal and gang efforts cannot be hindered as they should be. I have posted links in the past that give statistics and facts regarding the subject. Look up the Washington Post or LA Times for the information.

      • RM

        JeffH

        I live in the Northern Sector of CA and have seen them poaching and I and others have turned them in and what I said has happened numerous times. They were either not cited or were cited and the case was dismissed by our illoustrous liberal judges.
        Just this past week twelve cars with Hmong were stopped and were cited for illegally shooting deer and other game out of season. My Father-In-Law retired from the Forest Service a few years ago and still has contacts where he resides and where I hunt and fish. He was told by one of his Ranger friends that the game wardens and rangers conducted a day and night time operation and caught the Hmong on video illegally killing deer and band tail pigeons. Hopefully this will stick in court and they will be removed from this area for awhile. They did not kill just one deer per car but had in there possesion four and five deer per car.

        • JeffH

          I would guess you might live just north of Ukiah as I have hunted bandtails around Cloverdale in the 1970′s.
          There is no valid reason why they shouldn’t be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for anyone.

          • JeffH

            …or possibly Redding or Red Bluff area?

  • RM

    My last comment was not really on the subject of lead poisoning but still fits since it applies to hunting and guns. I have no problem with alternative shot. Where I do have a problem is when it is manufactured and cost triple of what lead shot would sell for.
    Just another means to Stop Hunting. If the libs can not acomplish the ban on guns then they try with ammo which they have already started in CA. Two bills are on the (Arnies)governors desk for his signature.

    • DaveH

      RM,
      I think hunting is way low on the list of things the Liberal politicians are concerned with. They throw it in because the anti-hunting excuse might resonate with many of their followers. But how many of the Liberal chanters are Vegan? Anybody else has no legs to stand on. If the killing of animals is immoral, then it doesn’t matter if they kill the animals themselves or hire a surrogate killer, they are just as guilty. Also, it would be quite hypocritical for them to make hunting a moral issue at a time in history when they are trying so hard to be free of the morality of religious people.
      The real goal, of course, is the banning of weapons. If the population is armed, they can’t so easily take our money and our freedom (what’s left of it anyway). They know that eventually even the most complacent people will fight back if downtrodden too much.

      • RM

        DaveH,
        I agree with you, but my recreation is hunting and fly fishing and I intend as do so many of my friends to protect our heritage of hunting and fishing. Yes they should have more important issues to deal with than gun control. But just as sson as a liberal president is elected you read and see on the news all the shootings and then you have the anti-gun idiots whining about all the guns and how crime has increased and the list goes on.

    • eyeswideopen

      RM, the Dem’s do not manufacture all the ammo. We need to get the gun owners involved with the 5000 manufactures who set the prices. Why do you think that the Dem’s own everything and control everything? Use our most powerful organization NRA and get the prices lowered.

      • JeffH

        The ammo mfgs. do not set the prices that we see on the shelves or online with the ammo retailers. The retailers set their own prices and have allowed the shortage of ammo to gain higher profits. I spend a lot of time going to retailers in my area and also searching online retailers. Supply and demand! During the 5.56/.223 shortage, prices were off of the chart, as much as 100% above normal pricing, all because the mnfg’s priority was to meet the government/military need first. In March I was able to purchase online, at a great price, 500rd of Wolf poly black box for under $140, but had to wait over 30 days for delivery. In August. I was able to purchase the same ammo online, only 1000 rds., for $238. A local retailer was selling the exact same ammo for $428. All of the popular handgun cartridges, 9mm, 45ACP, and 357 are in short supply and their prices have gone up 50% – 100% when available. I now make the bulk of my ammo purchases online because of better pricing and delivery options.

        • DaveH

          I wasn’t aware that we were allowed to buy ammo online. Thanks.

      • JeffH

        One question I have? You have bashed the NRA and stated that you are no longer a member, so why would you trust them to help?

        • eyeswideopen

          I no longer will give them money, that they will use to purchase seats in the Congress. They are a powerful lobby, we have problems now due to lobbying influence. Use their knowledge to help protect our rights, but don’t become a seat purchasing organization. We need new laws to govern our election process. We need term limits for Senators. We need private companies to not own our political process. 3 yrs ago, I saw a document showing which seats they were going after and how much it would cost. I immediately cancelled my membership. I ethically can’t financially support them anymore.

          • JeffH

            Fortunately, they play the cards that are delt according to the “Book of Political Hoyle”. The NRA has established a powerful presence in D.C., and we need that to protect our Second Amendment rights as well as our freedom. The anti-gun lobby wrote that book and uses the same tactics and buy their own support in D.C. also. You gotta’ fight fire with fire. Otherwise, someday, you and I would have to give up our guns.
            To me, that is not an option. Gun ownership is a big part of my life, both in the field and at the range.

          • JeffH

            I agree with you that all lobby efforts be banned. Until that happens, I think you should re-think your position with the NRA because you are a gun owner with a CCP in Florida. The NRA, in order to be successful in the gun-rights fight, has to use the same tools that the anti’s use to ban your gun-rights. Remember, the NRA is much more than a strong pro-gun organization. Education and safety, promoting the shooting sports through gun clubs and at shooting ranges to supporting our Olympic shooters.

          • DaveH

            Jeff,
            For one thing, banning lobbyists is just not going to happen. But maybe we could push through full-disclosure laws so the politicians would have to disclose the names of the people they meet with. Then let the voters decide.

  • DaveH

    Let me give you an example of our Forest Rangers in action. I was visiting Yellowstone. We were at a campfire talk. The Ranger was talking about the need to preserve Yellowstone’s beauty during the winter. For those who don’t know, Yellowstone has numerous visitors in the winter of each year who come to rent snowmobiles and tour the snow-covered park. The Greens want to shut down this wintertime activity. So, you might ask, what is to preserve during the winter? Surely, they don’t mean the snow? No, the Ranger was talking about the pollution that was created by the snowmobiles. So, the question is who is bothered by that pollution? The only towns close to the park all make big money during the winter by renting out snowmobiles and housing the winter visitors. They sure aren’t going to complain. Okay, I will just tell you. It is the Rangers and their families who actually get to live in that Wonderland of Yellowstone that most of us are lucky to be able to visit one week a year. They want their own private ranch during the winter at the taxpayers’ expense. These are our environmentalists at work. They will make up any ‘feel good’ excuse to achieve that goal.
    Remember what I’ve been trying to tell you? It’s all about power!

    • RM

      DaveH,

      Have you noticed that most of these rangers ( not all ) are what I call Tree Huggers.

      • DaveH

        Yep, I really think many of them view the parks as their own property and the visitors as intruders.

  • April

    A very encouraging site for me is usconcealedcarry.com. This site and their USCCA(United States Concealed Carry Association) magazine is loaded with great info and quite enjoyable to read. Also, it has great ideas on how to carry your weapons w/o causing attention to yourself. I am becomming more informed about guns and safety issues, what the laws are so that we can protect our rights, where to find classes, and so much more.

    • eyeswideopen

      April, good info, thanks.

  • cr747

    It’s sad to me that our government will prosecute you for killing an animal for food for the hungry,,,,, but they won’t do anything for killing a little baby 2-4 months in the womb with a process called ABORTION!!!!!!!!!!!! How sad our government has stooped so low to let this happen.

    • ccg

      I agree, this is very sad, esp. since abstinence would stop the need for most abortions.
      If you’re not ready to pay, don’t play.

  • haansgruber

    Bad men have been scribbling bad things onto paper and referring to them as law for eons

    It is your duty to ignore them

    Illegal orders = no orders

    “We the sheeple” can stop following illegal orders at any time

    It requires; if someone attempts to enforce those bad laws, you have to be willing to go the distance to reserve your rights, your freedom and your life. In much the same way they promote fear to accomplish their task. Perhaps a little humility in doing their job would not harm them. When push comes to shove, either we demand our rights, or we lay down and and take it. On your feet, or on your knees. The choice is yours to make. It is time for “the sheeple” to wake up from their long winter slumber. This doesn’t only apply to this issue. It applies to all freedoms being encroached upon everywhere.

    “You know, there are some words I’ve known since I was a schoolboy: ‘ With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.’ Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning. The first time any man’s freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged. I fear that today…” The Drumhead

    peace :)

    • eyeswideopen

      Haans, “any man” being the key words. I hope you are including those horrible Democrats that are also men.

  • LOU

    When I was a child many times we would not have had food on the table to eat if we han not gone fishing or if Dad or one of the uncles had not gone hunting for Rabbit or Squirrel. By the way none of us every had any problems from the lead in the buckshot. I am 66 years of age. It should have shown up nby now. When our guns abd ammo disappear or become so expensive to buy or keep for taxes we as people will loose our opportunity to protect ourselves, feed ourselves in emergency and very possibly our freedom. What is wrong with these people? The answer they don’t want to remember these things.

  • LOU

    When I was a child many times we would not have had food on the table to eat if we had not gone fishing or if Dad or one of the uncles had not gone hunting for Rabbit or Squirrel. By the way none of us every had any problems from the lead in the buckshot. I am 66 years of age. It should have shown up by now. When our guns and ammo disappear or become so expensive to buy or keep because of taxes, we as people will loose our opportunity to protect ourselves, feed ourselves in emergency and very possibly we could lose our freedom. What is wrong with these people? The answer they don’t want to remember these things.

  • sluew

    I have hunted for food and pleasure sense I was 9 years old, most of the time the lead does stay in the game! People that hunt know that so remove it from the meat. Lead is very easy to recognize in meat epically after it has been processed!
    This little ban is just the beginning. They will try this and see how it flies and next time they will ban the caliber of rifle we can use in the Parks and so on until it’s on main street USA!
    I am a Vietnam vet. and was brought up to be honest, Curtis, hard working, truth full and help anybody in need! This country is run by crooks and liars driven by greed!
    This politic correctness is another story that just burns me I am a firm believer in, if your white, black, yellow, red or green thats what you are and be proud of it! I am a Canadian, German, French, Indian, American now how does that fit! Thats not being predigest!
    If you don’t like this country the way it is you have the right to leave!

  • JeffH

    California has a Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale in California.
    I don’t know what other states have enacted similar requirements.

    It reads:
    Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.

  • JeffH

    #1. I am not a Republican! I am sure that surprises you.
    #2. Eyes constantly belittles others and twists the comments made.
    #3. To get respect one has to give respect!

    I do not care what you think or what you say about this personal situation. The troll eyes isn’t the innocent victim you think she is!
    I have explained my actions to you for the last time!

  • BillyJ

    Jeff, I reviewed this site prior to participating. I must say I agree with, Git it Right, you have been acting like a teenager, who can’t win a fight, when you are addressing Eyeswideopen. You think she twists words. She merely takes your statements, researches them, gets the facts and then proves roughly 90% of you wrong. She doesn’t twist your words, she restates them. After you see your words repeated, along with the facts, you all realize that you made some illogical or incorrect statements, usually with emotional overtones. Those of you who accuse her of repeating the same line of explainations, are also using the same arguements over and over again. DaveH, is almost comedic as he chants, Government is force, hand in my pocket,he has a few more,that he constantly uses. You want everyone on the site to oppose Eyes, and are trying to incite the crowd. Dislike of this proportion is usually due to feeling inadequate. Other’s on this site have disagreed with you, Smilee, Norm, Pete, Voice of Reason, Gail, Deb, John, Git, and about 7 more, but you didn’t start a crusade of name calling with them. This woman, has not just made statements off the cuff, she comes with statics, dates and facts pertaining to the discussion. At first I attributed it to your age, sex, and race, as us men still have chauvinistic attitudes towards women who have achieved a higher education, served in the military, and are intelligent, especially if they are close to our own age. Some of the clowns on this site, could never have gotten into the military, due to testing, yet you have never questioned anyone of those who we both know couldn’t have even gotten a GED much less served in the military. Here’s a little insight into why you might be having such a strong reaction to her, you are enrolled in Medicare, which is a government managed care program. When you are making statements demeaning the government, she pulls you up short and reminds you that you are enjoying the benefits, calling it “socialist”, which is one of your key words used to berate the liberals. Thus she is using your words against you. You don’t have a college education. You were rejected by the military or to use your words, they didn’t call you. You haven’t lost a wife, or child in a war. In addition she has a firearm. You don’t show respect to any women on this site unless they agree with you. Until recently Eyes didn’t belittle anyone. You and Dave take it upon yourselves to try and assert your interpretation of decorum, and intercede into conversations not directed at either of you. Dave just recently stated he was showing no respect to Pete, as Pete was disrespectful to others. Are you two,the designated “policemen” of the site? Git it Right, was correct, it is easier to run with the pack, very difficult to stand up to a group such as this. I could do a summary of Dave’s issues, but that will have to wait as my beautiful wife is calling me to bed. Think about what I have said, it is not meant to demean you, but everyone has a right to state their opinons without harassment, which is what you are doing by getting everyone to call her a “Troll”. When you do this you are confirming her assessment that you are a radical, who hates because of someones political party.

  • DaveH

    How many name-calling, ridiculing, trite Liberals does it take to try to shut down one honest factual commentator? This is kind of like the lightbulb metaphor. They want our money bad, don’t they?

  • DaveH

    Oh yeah, and to take away our Freedom!

  • JeffH

    BillyJ..read my comments above yours. It applies to your comments also!

  • JeffH

    RM, I agree 100% with you and was accusing of nothing. I was simply pointing out that there are some in this post that will accuse you of promoting “civil war and violence” with your comments. I do not see it, but I understand your comments and do not look for a “hidden” meaning. It is what it is.

  • DaveH

    Typical Liberal crap. If someone else does it, then it must be the right course of action. Yep, let’s dumb ourselves down, it’s too lonely being one on the only nations that prizes freedom.

  • DaveH

    Oboy, here come the Saul Salinsky tactics again. I think Eyes is having a nervous breakdown. I suppose we are mean, hateful people for not letting him run us down.

  • eyeswideopen

    Dave, once again, I am a woman.

  • DaveH

    Are you sure? Some of the nasty remarks that you have made sound much more like a man might make than a woman.

  • April

    He/she may have a split personality disorder- no consistency.

  • DaveH

    It’s a cinch that Liberals aren’t really worried about the ‘red-neck’ hunters getting lead poisoning. Of course, the price of ammunition would greatly increase with non-lead bullets. Also, with steel bullets barrel wear is greatly increased. It is just another baby step in the direction of gun-control.
    Stopping power is greatly decreased with solid bullets which will result in a lot more wounded animals. I thought Liberals didn’t want animals to suffer? I doubt they really care. It is all about whatever the elite leadership can get the masses to swallow. It is all about power.

  • DaveH

    Just ignore the Liberals, they are grasping at straws. Their real goal is to redistribute the wealth, and they can’t do that so easily with a heavily armed population.

  • DaveH

    RM,
    A good solution to the Gun Safety problem would be having a required gun safety class for all High School students. That would accomplish the goal of gun-safety without infringing our rights to own guns.
    The NRA tried that in California decades ago, but only two legislators were interested in the concept. Gun-safety is really of no concern to the Liberal politicians; they are just using it (along with many other hurdles) as an excuse to make it so hard to get a gun that most people won’t bother.

  • eyeswideopen

    Dave, wouldn’t that cost money to have a class like that? How can you decrease government while promoting additional monies to be spent on a required course for gun safety. Here in Florida we had to request 3.8 Billion dollars of stimilus money just to pay our teachers salaries for 2009/2010. We don’t have any extra money to pay for the classes you recommend. Hey, what happened to your mantra of less government, government is force? Maybe Calf. didn’t have the extra money either. You are very confusing, first you don’t want government interference, then you want a required coarse for gun safety. What about the parents that don’t want their children exposed to guns? You want to force them to take a required course?

  • JeffH

    DaveH, I agree with you and I know the NRA and other pro gun groups would participate in the education process. Any certified instructor would be more than willing to educate our youth in such a manner, and I would seek certification myself. I received my HS certificate at my jr. high school from a teacher that volunteered his time to teach the class. I am also sure the gun manufacturers would want to participate, donating literature and money.
    SIGN ME UP!

  • JeffH

    Also, the class would not be mandatory, an option. A gun safety class can be easily taught in under 8 hours, so the financials are not really an issue with the support of the gun industry. It would be a win win proposition.

  • eyeswideopen

    jeff, I was only quoting Dave, when he said a” required gun safety class for all high school students”. I didn’t say anything bad about it. But you can’t make it a requirement as parents have a right not to have their children around guns. That would be government force. Good, idea having NRA involved, let them pick up the bill for a voluntary class.

  • JeffH

    The NRA already offers free hunter safety and gun safety instruction around the country for kids of all ages.

    Begun in 1988, The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program has reached more than 21 million children — in all 50 states. This program was developed through the combined efforts of such qualified professionals as clinical psychologists, reading specialists, teachers, curriculum specialists, urban housing safety officials, and law enforcement personnel.

    If you see a gun:
    STOP!
    Don’t Touch.
    Leave the Area.
    Tell an Adult.

  • DaveH

    Eyes,
    I am offering a solution in response to the government ‘forcing’ people to take safety classes before they are allowed to buy a gun.
    This would also save lots of lives. Most accidents are the result of people who don’t know how to handle the guns safely and those people are usually those who don’t actually own the guns.
    Why would this be so offensive to you? Don’t they teach all kinds of useless classes in high school already? We could replace part of those with gun-safety classes.
    We could also replace some of those useless classes with courses in Economics. Of course, Liberals don’t really want the citizens to understand Economics.

  • DaveH

    And Eyes,
    Yes, if I had my way there would be no public schools only private schools. But then, I don’t have my way do I?

  • eyeswideopen

    DaveH, I would want to be there when my child was being taught how to shoot or handle a gun. Maybe your parent wasn’t there, but I sure was there, when mine were taught. I guess I’m like you, too much government force.!!!It is our sport and our responsibility to teach our children, and it has nothing to do with scholastic endeavors.

  • April

    This is their MO. They make everyone think that they are doing one thing for the good when they are actually and very subtily preparing for the oposite agenda. And usually it is an attempt to steal a right.

  • Mike Alan

    Uh, Dave, the nonlead bullets most certainly DO have stopping power and are NOT “solid” as you suggest, but are jacketed and have sipe creases in the tips to promote mushrooming and the transference of “power”.
    I can tell you from experience of hunting in the park with them and using them at the range, they DO perform quite well and accurately as well. ALL of the animals harvested in the park this season from my hunting party filled their tags with nonlead bullets.

  • April

    You are welcome to come to Texas.

  • eyeswideopen

    Jeff, look at HR3749, 16 Republican and 9 Dem sponsors.

  • Earlw

    Sounds like a good reason not to move to CA!

  • Earlw

    Next, Eyes will tell you that the woods belong to the wolverines and we shouldn’t be there anyway. The tree huggers think the animals have dominion over humans…Have you ever heard such a thing in your life before? There really are people out there like that! There are individuals that want to ban any human activity in vast areas of woods (except for themselves, of course. In my 65 years on this earth, I’ve been on both sides of the fence, but long ago realized the folly of liberalism. No society that has had a collective or socialist government has lasted for long. Our republic has been one of the longest in modern time.

    When asked what form of government we would have, When the constitution was created, Benjamin Franklin stated ” a republic, if you can keep it”…..’Nuff said!

  • L, USA

    RM, You need to read the article. The Republican Senators are on the right side for the people of America. It was the liberals in the National Park Service (NPS) who are attempting to ban lead shot. Thanks

    “October 9, 2009 by Personal Liberty News Desk
    A group of 13 U.S. senators sent a letter to Department of the Interior Secretary Ken Salazar complaining about the National Park Service’s (NPS) attempts to ban the use of traditional ammunition in parks that allow hunting.

    The signatories, who are all Republicans, allege the ban will have a negative effect on hunters, the economy and wildlife populations.

    “Especially in these difficult economic times, this action will discourage people from hunting and fishing and decrease revenue into the Pittman-Robertson fund that funds state conservation efforts,” the senators stated in the letter….”

  • http://n/a Robert Marble

    BUBBLEHEAD BOB sez: Have y’all heard of “frangible bullets?”

    Go to:

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm

    This would take care of the “lead problem” for all time…….

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