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Rendell’s Retreat

December 2, 2010 by  

Rendell’s Retreat

“What more sacred, what more strongly guarded by every holy feeling, than a man’s own home.”
— Marcus Tullius Cicero

“Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife."
— Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., in
Brown v US, 1921.

“I do not believe that in a civilized society we should encourage violent and deadly confrontation when the victim can safely protect themselves (sic) [through retreat].”
— Outgoing Governor Ed Rendell (D-Pa.)

If your home is your castle and is so sacrosanct that 2 millennia worth of brighter lights than Pennsylvania Governor, Ed Rendell believe you have the right to defend it, then is it not reasonable to extend the same protections to your person as your property?

Rendell thinks not, expecting “detached reflection.” Thus, he used his waning authority to veto a bill expanding Pennsylvania’s Castle Doctrine to include the right to use deadly force to repel attackers, even if the potential victim is outside his or her home.

The bill, which passed with overwhelming majorities in both houses of the state legislature, would have guaranteed Pennsylvanians the same rights held by the citizens of more than 30 states. By vetoing it last Saturday, Rendell ensured that the bill couldn’t be rescued from the clutches of liberalism before a state assembly veto-override deadline.

Unfortunately for the good people of Pennsylvania, they may have to wait a minute for a rescue from the clutches of an armed felon. Rendell, who spends his days surrounded by a State Police security detail, is highly unlikely to experience the sort of moment for which the bill was intended. Perhaps a stroll through South Philly after 3 a.m. might change his perspective.

And perspective is the key to the “stand your ground” philosophy of self-defense. Liberals like Rendell, irrationally terrified of firearms because of what they MIGHT represent, prefer to encourage flight over fight. But the proud citizen, imbued with the spirit of freedom tempered with responsibility, knows that flight is not only sometimes impossible, but ALWAYS illogical.

Why should a law-abiding citizen be forced to run for his life when he is perfectly capable of defending himself? For liberals like Rendell, the response is simple: The law-abiding citizen is easier to control through legislation. The armed felon isn’t likely to simply give up his life of crime and get a day job because the Governor of Pennsylvania wants him to.

In 1895, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Beard v US:

“A man assailed on his own grounds, without provocation, by a person… apparently seeking his life is not obliged to retreat, but may stand his ground and defend himself …” (emphasis mine)

A liberal would read that quote and remark that 1895 was a far different time; armed confrontations were more frequent, and less likely to draw a timely response from Pennsylvania’s finest. I would remark in turn by suggesting the liberal visit gang-ridden Allentown late on a Saturday night.

Anti-Bill of Rights Groups like the Brady Campaign and the Violence Prevention Center presume that WE can’t be trusted; that stand-your-ground laws would cause American society to degenerate into a Wild-West dystopia. The fact that society has certainly not done so is immaterial. We’re easier to effect laws upon, because we’re more likely to observe them. Perhaps the next time a Pennsylvanian is staring down the barrel of a mugger’s or rapist’s gun, he or she can call the Violence Prevention Center to ride out and leaflet the assailant into submission.

According to the Department of Justice, violent crime in the United States has dropped precipitously in the last 30 years — a decline which coincides with a rise of States adopting laws which allow the use of deadly force in self-defense. In fact, since 1993, the number of total violent crimes in the U.S. has dropped from more than 4 million to fewer than 2 million. I somehow doubt “midnight basketball” deserves the credit.

In the Constitution of the United States, the 4th Amendment states:

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated…”

What more unreasonable seizure of the aforementioned security exists than the attempted taking of it by a criminal? And since the 2nd Amendment guarantees us the right to bear arms, why should any of us, from Philadelphia to Phoenix, immediately start looking for the exit when such seizure is threatened?

As for Rendell, the Brady Campaign and the Violence Prevention Center, I am fortunate to live in a state which does allow me to stand my ground. And for the thugs who might consider testing me:

“Go ahead, make my day.” — SFPD Inspector “Dirty” Harry Callahan

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • Anthony

    Quote: ” Liberals like Rendell, irrationally terrified of firearms because of what they MIGHT represent, prefer to encourage flight over fight.”

    And, to think, the people of Pennsylvania, especially Philadelphia, have always considered themselves to be the biggest bad-a$$es in practically the entire Country. Liberty Bell and all that rot, ya know…

    Then, they go and elect a coward. I wonder just how many in that City, let alone State, even have a clue as to what this wuss has taken from them(?)

    I’m a cheesehead, and we don’t favor Philly fans very much. They prefer to be somewhat confrontational at the Eagles games. They even went so far as to install a Courthouse, downstairs below the football field , in the basement of their Stadium – so as to convenience themselves while handling barbarian visiting fans – is the excuse. Truth is, the Eagles fans are the ones with barbarian attitudes at football games, going around making false accusations at visiting fans, as a sort of “sport”, like little Junior High kiddies.

    But, I digress.

    IF WE GO BACK – there is further evidence that the People of Philadelphia and Pennsylvania have had their hats handed to them, thru the perversion of freedoms guaranteed to them in the Jeffersonian-intent of the U.S. Constitution – during the Whiskey Rebellion. Alexander Hamilton conned George Washington to send in the troops, when all the locals were doing was standing up for their rights against undue taxation … the troops won, just so ya know.

    Smells almost like the french when you capsulate it like that, don’t it(?)
    Ya see, when you google up Wars won by the French – you get an answer of NONE.
    I think you get my point.

    Philadelphia, the bastion of Freedom in the history books, as it were, doesn’t seem to have the hootspa to put on the tri-pointed hats and actually stand for something (aside from a free handout, from their Masters, I guess).

    Personally, I would take [Beard vs US, 1895] one step further and dictate I have the right to go out after that perpetrator, seek them out and ["do unto them"] to even the score. Anyone wanting to disagree, I assure you, needs their heads examined. Bait Artists may now apply……

    Sad to say, however, the 4th Amendment, these days – Ben, seems to have lost its purpose and power in most States. What with Executive orders, etc., taking the real sterngth of that Amendment away, many Americans are left with “what the heck do we do now” syndromes.

    You can chalk it up to what one can expect in a Police State, where the High School bully’s rule the day, obviously.

    I refer back to a portion of one John Wayne movie (paraphrasing) -
    “Pilgrim, you tested me mighty strongly with that shotgun in my middle. But, we’re gonna calm down now that you no longer have that weapon. I’m gonna watch my temper. Oh, I’m not gonna hit ya … LIKE HELL I’M NOT……

    Good points all around, Ben. Keep it up…

    • d williams

      recently a friend of mine was home invaded in his pa. home while at home sick. the robbers assumed he was at work. he fought off the burglars and by the time he got his gun they had left. the state cops caught them. the cops told him he could have shot them and they would not have arrested him. he asked even if they were fleeing and they winked at him and said they would be cool. at least some pa. people and cops are on our side. the big cities have their problems but the good ole small towns are mostly cool. do not stereotype pa. people

      • Angel Wannabe

        Damn straight_ I’m a Pa-er!__We had a attempted break in 3 years ago__One at the front door, one at the back door, we had just gotten home___We let the pitbull out, my husband had a baseball bat, I got the gun!__They ran off!____the next day we noticed a knitted hat hanging in the pine trees__later that day, 5 kids came running down the bank into the trees to try and find it___my husband and pitbull, snuck out behind the tree and nabbed them___5 kids all under the age of 17__We called the cops___later_That same day__one of the kids father decided to sit, in our driveway, for the day, because he was PO-ed, his son was booked __Just so happens we know ALL THE POLICE force__One of them came back for more questioning___The cop new it was one of the fathers__he ran him off and said if you bother these people again, I’ll arrest ya!___We take care of each other & our own here!

        • TIME

          Angel, Good for you!

        • JeffH

          Angel, I’m standing and clapping for you and your family. Good job.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Thanks JeffH and TIME!__After further investigation, the police later told us, that three out of the five kids, were also involved in other robberies in our area.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            angel,
            Down in georgia I was living with some friends and he and I went fishing. his wife, at home alone, heard a knock at the door and a guy asked to talk to the man of the house. Like a dummy(his words) she said we went fishing. A little later she heard someone at the back door. My Dobie sen-sen was under the back portch asleep. She raised the window and yelled “sen-sen git im’” The guy cleared a 6 foot chain link fence!! she got a piece of his pants on the way over, though! The next day, she saw the guy walking down the street and told me. I went down the alley and walked up to the guy tapping my watch like I needed the time. When I got to him I told him the next time the gate would be opened for the dog and he better not slow down. he ran down the street and we never saw him again!!

          • Angel Wannabe

            JOeH, That story ended well too!__I bet the guy could’ve crapped his pants!!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Angel,
            Well, I had papers saying that sen sen was full blooded but I swear from her size she was mixed with an elkhound!!!

      • 45caliber

        A neighbor of mine in Arkansas was threatened over the telephone. He warned the threatener that he had a gun and the man just laughed. So he called the sheriff. The sheriff heard him out and then said, “If he shows up, shoot him.”

        My friend said, “I thought he had to be in my house before I can do that.”

        The sheriff replied, “No, all he has to be in on your property. Shoot him and we’ll take care of it.”

        The man didn’t show up … to the relief of my neighbor.

        • Angel Wannabe

          45_ Our police here, all have pitbulls as pets as well__They told us, if we have to defend ourselves to let the dogs loose first, if thats not working then do what you have to do!__They said, If would be invaders get attacked, they’d back us up!

          • 45caliber

            I have the perfect guard dog. He barks when anyone comes up. That’s all I want of him. I’ll take it from there!

          • HFlashman

            45…make sure you feed my ex wife nd keep her yearly shots up to date … thanx. I appreciate it…

          • http://?? Joe H.

            45caliber,
            Same here now!! He might drown them in drool but he barks like a banshee! The guy two blocks over says he knows when my dog is out and we get company!!! He wouldn’t hurt a fly, well, maybe a squirril but not a fly!!

    • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

      Anthony,

      Niccolo Machiavelli
      Rome remained free for four hundred years and Sparta eight hundred, although their citizens were armed all that time; but many other states that have been disarmed have lost their liberties in less than forty years.

    • JeffH

      Anthony, thanks the well thought out nd wonderful read. I’ll also say that your John Wayne/George Washington McLintock quote summs it all up very well.

      For eight years, Gov. Rendell has lobbied hard in the halls of the Capitol for what he calls “commonsense” handgun laws. Rendell is just another in the long list of anti-gun nuts that believes in the “commonsense” approach to gun laws. Isn’t that the politically correct method of doublespeak to ban gun ownership all together? You bet it is.

      Rendell is a lame duck governor now Governor-Elect Corbett has signaled that he would sign the bill Rendell had just vetoed.

      This is from The Philadelphia Inquirer:

      “I have full confidence we’ll pass it next year with a bipartisan overwhelming vote, and Gov. Tom Corbett will sign it,” said Rep. Seth Grove (R., York). “You are giving power back to the citizens to defend themselves.”

      Corbett would sign the castle-doctrine bill in its current form, said his spokesman, Kevin Harley – who added that Corbett opposed all the other gun-control measures advocated by Rendell.

      • http://none sean moor

        what sickens me is, everytime one of these souless dirtbags, passes some dumb law.some of the police seem to go along with it.without questioning it.

        • Todd G.

          Most (NOT ALL) cops are idiots who have NO clue about how to enforce the laws that (MEN make) not God!!!! No man can sit in a chair and tell you, you can’t defend yourself in your own home!! There is NO need for this bill to even be reintroduced!! If anyones house gets robbed and you home shoot 1st, they can’t testify when they are dead!!!!!

          • 45caliber

            Cops are different.

            I saw an article in the paper one day some years ago. A man in San Antonio broke in on a woman. She ran to the bedroom, locked the door and got a gun. He broke in and she shot and killed him. The police were upset about it.

            On the same page on the opposite side, another article told of a similar story in Houston. Or at least it started similar. A man broke in on a woman in Houston. She grabbed a gun and went into the living room to check. He saw her and ran. She chased him into the kitchen and shot him. She tried to shoot again but her gun jammed. So she ran back to her bedroom, got another gun, and charged back. She held the gun on him until the police arrived. He was dead. The police told her she had done a good job.

        • 45caliber

          The police can and do question it – but they still have to arrest people for breaking that law whether they like it or not. They cannot pick and choose which laws they will enforce.

          However … any JURY can make the difference. They try to not let you know about that but a jury can refuse to honor ANY law made by any group.

          All they have to do is decide that the law is wrong and therefore find the prisoner innocent.

          Now that the feds have passed several laws, they can now try you again for the same crime with a different jury, but at least you still have a chance of getting off when a law is wrong.

          • Rick Quill

            45 – Correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t that kind of action be considered “Double-Jeopardy”?

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            It is double jepordy but the Feds, especially do it until they get the verdict they want. They just change the name of the charge. Remember Bernie Getz, the NY. guy who shot some thugs on a subway? They tried him over and over again until they got a guilty verdict. If they want you bad enough they’ll get you but better tried by 12 than carried by six.

      • Angel Wannabe

        JeffH, A few months ago Rendell must have been getting massive amounts negative responses,including from us__In a speech he referred to us all that don’t agree with his crap_ LOONS!__I lol on that one!

        • JeffH

          Angel, guess what? That other “loon” will not be governor of Pennsylvania in 2011.

          • Kate8

            I don’t think self-defense is even an issue with liberal loons like Rendell. They couldn’t care less about anyone’s safety.

            It’s like everything else Progressives do. They try to use emotion and their distaste for ‘killing’ poor misguided souls as just another ruse to eventually confiscate guns for their bigger agenda.

            Don’t you just love how they have so much compassion for criminals, and so little regard for the innocent? Just more of their twisting of logic for mind-boggling.

            If we keep in mind that these people never stop when they gain ground, that they do everything in small increments with the intent to continue pushing when the dust settles, we get a look at the bigger picture. We all know they are pushing for gun confiscation.

            It seems these days that all bets are off with the Progressive agenda. They aren’t even waiting for the dust to settle anymore. It’s now rapid-fire acts of treason against the people.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Thank Christ.

          • Angel Wannabe

            I’m Hearin’ all of that kate!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Kate8,
            here’s hopin his house gets broken into while he is home!!! Let him get a taste of what he is trying to foist on others!!

  • Angel Wannabe

    We have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms!_ Rendell can veto all he wants, the wuss__Come on my property at 2 in the morning, with the intention to do me or mine harm_ and see what happens?!__Enuff said!!!!

    • HFlashman

      LOL….one really has to laugh at the lame attempts Crystal keeps coming up with time and again to legitimize his rantings of lunacy. Beard v US, 158 U.S. 550 (1895) which Crystal uses as the base of his argument is so off target that using his reading is nearing deliberate misrepresentation. It’s obvious he trolled the ‘net and took the quote out of context and didn’t read the case itself. Bad journalism, and crushes any case which he could present as to being an honest Op Ed writer.

      If I were he, i’d sue the college which gave him his degree as it is obvious with each article he writes he can’t claim a higher education. his Bio which states such is about the only factually true statement he has made. (Mr. Crystal…if you take offemse with this descritpion of your standards..truth speaks for itself)

      But what the heck can one expect from an obvious shill for the powered and wealthy financiers of the GOP (FOREIGN and domestic)?

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        HFlashman… You are so funny! You accuse Ben Crystal of bad journalism???? Sweetie…. I am afraid the liberals have that market cornered! Perhaps you can no longer distinguish between good journalism and bad journalism, heh?

        • HFlashman

          If you think Crystal is anything nearing even medicocre, then you must watch FOX McNews and think it’s good. Like yesterday…every station had Gen. Powell on with his press conference discussing the Start Treaty. Except FOX…they had some wacked out crazed wingnut discussing the Debt Reduction Committee report and he advocated snuffing SSI, unemployment etc…and giving bigger tax breaks to the wealthy.

          Jeesh …

          • DaveH

            Imagine the gall of a person who advocates that the Government not take somebody’s money for ‘their own good’ and then proceed to waste it all. Imagine the gall of a person who advocates that the Government not take somebody’s legally acquired money and then proceed to pass it out to people who did nothing to earn it.
            Only a Liberal could steal your money and then call you selfish for resisting.

      • Tony

        Hey Flash-in-the-pan, Do you have signs up in fronT of your home declaring “NO GUN ZONE”? I have one that says “NO TRESPASSING, VIOLATORS WILL BE SHOT, SURVIVORS WILL BE SHOT AGAIN”.

        • Angel Wannabe

          I love it, Tony!

          • Tony

            Angel, and you can know that I mean it! It’s not that I’m unsociable, I just hate thieves.

        • NoQuarter

          LOL, The one in my yard says “Neighbor to left doesn’t believe in guns”

          • Angel Wannabe

            NoQuarter___Thanks funny!!!! :)

          • http://?? Joe H.

            NoQuarter,
            Where can I get two of those that say right/left??? Or just one that says the neighbor to the left AND right of me doesn’t believe in guns or the right of self defense!!!!

        • Usnret1994

          Here is a link to the No Trespassing sign I have posted. Note the statement “VIOLATORS WILL BE TREATED AS INTRUDERS”
          http://www.narlo.org/sign.html

          • Angel Wannabe

            usrnet1994__Thats great!!!

        • Al Sieber

          Tony, I have one on my front gate, Trespassers Will Be Shot. the sheriff said I can’t tell you that you can or can’t have that sign, he said I would. that was 8 years ago and it’s still there.

      • Bill

        Hay Flash, see your on again, spewing your liberal UnAmerican views as you worship your master and your hopeful dictator in future years Obama! I see you set under the bed while others enter your home steal your positions and rape your wife and children, good for you, the sooner we rid our nation of pusses as you the better off we are, Love your comments Coward. Some one mentioned who paid you to write any way, that too has me curious?? Hope some thieves duct tape you up some night and let you watch!!!! YOU HFlashman in my opinion and these are my opinions only is what is wrong with America today, Taught by socialists who’s agenda is the down fall of America, your a disgrace to our country in my opinion. Now you can go play with your dolls. But please don’t screw with my Rights and I hope soon you are educated as to the need of such rights!

        • HFlashman

          Bill…nice to hear your views. FYI … where did I advocate disarming the home? C’mon big guy…walk the talk. Frippin’ idiot. Can’t even answer the proposition I brought up. Jeesh….are you a founding member of Lunatics United perhaps?

      • independant thinker

        I see HF is flashing in his pants again.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          independent,
          Yeah and that last flash showed he squats to pee!!

      • JeffH

        HFlash has been AWOL for a few days but nothing like a good ole “Alinsky styled attack” at Ben to let us all know… HE’S BACK!

        Personally I like Ben’s style…he adds a little panache to the website.

        Just ignore this hack, he’ll go away again!

      • Vicki

        HFlashman Here is a link to the case for you.
        http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=158&invol=550

        I read the entire case as presented at that link. It discusses the requirements of retreat. Ben Crystal’s article discusses the same thing. The requirements of retreat. The quote from the case that Mr Crystal used is EXACTLY the point that Mr Crystal was making. The Attorneys in the case of Beard vs US wished to make the point that the lower court had erred and misrepresented the legal requirements of retreat further justifying Mr Crystal’s use of the quote and the case. I therefore fail to see any justification in your claim of lunacy on the part of Mr. Crystal.

        • HFlashman

          Vicki…Read the SCOTUS comments…not atty arguments. Also the facts of the case. Did you read anywhere in the opinion wher the SCOTUS said becoming an aggressor was justified? Nope. Did you read anywhere that the folks involved were on anything but one’s private property? Nope. Did you read anywhere that the accused did, in fact, go out and intend to kill the deceased? nope. Did you read anywhere anything that Crystal is advocating? nope.

          Case closed

          • Vicki

            Did YOU read anywhere in Bens article or the comments that followed that we EVER said that being the aggressor was justified?

            Being aggressive in defense of life is no vice.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Flushedman,
            break in to my house and see if I don’t agressivly defend it!!! I’ll even let you attain entry!!!

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Rendell is obviously unfamiliar with the Pa. State Constitution, but then he is a democrat. He was also one of the ones, along with Bob Becker, who went to Fla. during the Bush-Gore election, to nullify the military absentee vote. What a guy.

  • Richard Barrow

    Isn’t it interesting that all the persons who are against self-protection with firearms, are the ones who have “around the clock” guards,police,etc. and usually paid by the tax payers. They don’t care about the regular folks or their families, or their property.

    They are not the regular,little guys who are the subject of crimes,assaults,robberies,etc. and they don’t have to pay the high insurance bills because of crime. They just add a new tax.

    • Teresa

      AMEN! The government wants control of the American citizens. They want to disarm us, end of story. Guns do not kill, people do. If you are intent on killing you will find a motive and means to do it and the terrorist and gangsters and murders and rapist of the world know this but we as law abiding citizens Have to be able to protect ourself and our loved ones. I do not want to hear this BS about the times were different 100 yr. ago, of course they were there worse now! In times of crisis people loot and riots break out. I often imagine how congress would feel if our armed troops or special forces were not at their side to protect and serve them….would they be so freely to take away our rights then? This is the ONE single battle that Americans can NOT afford to loose, this is our very existence of freedom!

    • 45caliber

      I agree. In fact, ALL of the anti-gun people in Congress that I know about either have guards all the time or they carry. Feinstein carries; when asked whether she was going to give up her gun when she got them banned, she said, “I can’t do that! There are people out there who hate me!”

      So basically what she (and the rest) are saying is: “I need mine but you don’t need yours. And we fear you with one.”

    • Vicki

      The other thing you will notice is that they are the ones who love to use other peoples (your) money for their pet projects. And they are not afraid to take your wealth at gunpoint (Try not paying taxes sometime).

      • DaveH

        With the way these Liberal leaders flaunt their power in our faces, Vicki, imagine how brazen they would be if we were disarmed.

        • Vicki

          We don’t have to imagine or even look at other countries. Look at New York City, Washington DC and any Airport TSA Security line.

  • Al Sieber

    After my dogs get to them, they’ll beg to be shot. Ariz. and Alaska probably have the best gun laws in the U.S..

    • Steve

      I have heard that in the olden days folks were quite a bit more polite and hesitant to provoke violence against others. Most likely this was due to the fact that you never knew if the other person might pull out a gun and blow your head off….

      • Cliffystones

        One of my favorite quotes.

        An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.

        Robert A. Heinlein

      • 45caliber

        Except for the movies, the “Wild” West wasn’t nearly as wild as most people think. In fact, I believe the name came from Cody’s circus.

      • Vicki

        On average the only wild one in the wild west was Mariah.
        Not even an antitank gun could stop her.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Your_Wagon_%28musical%29

        • 45caliber

          lol

        • 45caliber

          I’ve got to admit – that in most towns in the old west, they had just about as many shooting as they did in that movie.

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            those cattle/mining towns had nothing on Detroit or Flint, Mich. today

    • 45caliber

      Al:

      Actually Vermont does. It surprised me but it is legal to carry open or concealed there without a license.

      • Al Sieber

        45, you’re right, I knew I missed a state. in Ariz. a law went into effect last July where you don’t need a concealed/ carry permit. it’s probably for the drug cartels and illegals that are pouring over our borders, the sheriff’s here told the citizens to arm themselves, the problem is way out of hand and the president does nothing.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Al S.
          If only Ohio would go the same direction!!! They’d have to burn the state down to get rid of me!!!

  • castaway

    Have any of you asked a police officer what to do if an armed gunman comes to rob you at home? I have been told by 3 officers call us and we will handle it! I remember telling one of them, ok officer I will call you from the other side. He became angry and said what is that supposed to mean? I told him I would call him from the grave. He reminded me that if I shot an armed robber, I would be the one arrested.

    • Al Sieber

      castaway, I don’t know where you live, but here in Ariz. you have the right to protect yourself with a firearm if you’re in fear for your life, and the right to protect other people, even the police if they’re in danger.

      • Al Sieber

        I forgot to add this was told to me by a Detective after my friend was murdered, he said just don’t shoot them in the back.

      • 45caliber

        I heard that in Chicago, the police offer a class on when to shoot and when not to shoot. Some of the questions come after you watch a video and are then asked, do you shoot or not?

        There is one videa that EVERY man has failed. You open your door and see a stranger trying to rape your wife in the yard. He sees you, jumps up and runs. Do you shoot or not?

        The correct answer is that he is no longer trying to harm anyone so you can’t shoot. But even the police MEN fail that question.

        • Kate8

          45, So you have to let him go so he can try again later. And you know he will be back, to either your house or another.

          People who commit senseless violence should be taken out. We’d have a lot less crime.

          • Dan az

            Kate8
            thats why we have backhoes we bury the garbage here!

          • JC

            I agree. The national crime rate would drop to less than half in about 6 mos. And just about zero after a year.

    • Dr. Mabuse

      Hey Castaway, what did you expect?
      The cops were full of shyt yesterday, today and smart money says they’ll be full of shyt tomorrow

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Dr.Mabuse,

        I agree.Here is what Socialist leader Eugene Victor Debs said,”The Constitution of the United States guarantees to you the right to bear arms…You have the unquestioned right, under the law, to defend your life and protect the sanctity of your fireside. Failing in either, you are a coward and a craven and undeserving of the name of man.” — Eugene V. Debs

        Rendell is full of sh*t.

    • Bill

      Cops hate it when you tell the truth, They baby the criminal, feed him, clean him all up, debug him, let him get further training on how to use the law against those he attacks, and then have Mr Police man there protect his criminal ass, it is a sad time we live in. Best to be in a Area where you can protect yourself, send the criminal to hell and yourself remain free. This needs to be enacted nation wide. Dictators want to be’s such as Obama see guns as a road block to them, We must keep our guns and our Rights, any wanting any different need to be handled now. These police officers need to get there priorities right. We need to be able to defend our loved ones and homes, and criminals killed during home invasions need to be just buried. Criminals have more rights now then honest men, this needs to change! The Police are here to protect the law abiding citizen, not prosecute him for protecting his home before a Officer could get there, now for a cop to get there and then have some one shoot and kill a criminal for no reason my be different, yet if a threat to home or family still remains, he is holding or heading to the kids room on the run and you see him, it should be totally legal to put the criminal down! If you look and read on here we have others who would seam to rather hide under there bed and watch as there family was butchered and raped in front of them, to defend him or her self should be left to the policeman still blocks away from your home as the last loved ones throat was slit seems to be there feelings on this. I for one say if needed reload, the home intruder just moved again, a threat still remains.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Well said Bill!

      • 45caliber

        Oblama doesn’t want to be a dictator! He just knows what is best for you – better than you do yourself – and he wants to take care of you!

        (sarcasm off)

      • Vicki

        Bill writes:
        “Cops hate it when you tell the truth, They baby the criminal, feed him, clean him all up, debug him, let him get further training on how to use the law against those he attacks, and then have Mr Police man there protect his criminal ass, it is a sad time we live in.”

        Ummm…. I don’t really think you should blame the police for the actions of the politician. Cops do NOT hate it when you tell the truth. Any babying they do is because they are REQUIRED to do so by politicians (Police chiefs are most often elected btw)

        Also keep in mind that the police often interact with unknown persons who YOU claim are criminals. Thus they MUST in good moral conscience treat the accused with something approaching dignity for they really are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

        Besides if YOU had to shoot an intruder the police do need to investigate. YOU will be the one they are feeding and cleaning up. In this scenario you did shoot in self defense right?

      • Al Sieber

        Hey Bill, I agree with you on the home invasion, “bury them”. that’s another use for my back hoe.

        • Dan az

          Al we think alike!

          • Al Sieber

            Dan, thats right, I could bury the vehicle and all with my backhoe.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Dan az,
            what do these bleeding hearts not understand about illegal entry??? breaking and entering?? Illegal entry with the intent to do bodily harm??? If the SOB comes into your house uninvited, then he is fair game! Many a good home owner has been killed by the words “get out of my hous………

    • DaveH

      Castaway,
      Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Cops are great at showing up after the incident and drawing the chalk lines. They may even catch you’re killer; now that will make your family feel better.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        gunner 689,
        yeah especially since he will probably bargain down to keep them from having to bring him to trial! wouldn’t want the prosecutors to have to earn their check!! guy here purposly backed his car over his girlfriend and bargained down to manslaughter!! Murder pure and simple!! bet her family were real relieved he got convicted of ANYTHING!!!

  • Bitter Libertarian

    My Home state. How sad that we have to fight now for our inalienable rights!!!

    • Vicki

      We have been warned many times that freedom is NOT free.

  • HFlashman

    Out of curousity…as the wacked and gun freaks sound off…how would this law benefit you? Under what circumstances do you see that enforcement of ths law infringes upon you ?

    My guess is any scenariom conjured up there is no “safe retreat’ possible…thus this law would not apply. Other circumstances would make you the aggressor…thus, it does since you took the fight to someone.

    But go ahead…try and come up with a possible scenario …

    • Al Sieber

      What problem do you have against a person protecting himself, loved ones, and his property?

      • HFlashman

        Al…none. Fact is, I support the 2nd. My questions is … what circumstances would this law apply? Anything I can think of, the “victim’ is either in immediate danger, and the law would not apply, or the “victim’ becomes the aggressor … and commits an avoidable violent act.

        Seems to me this law which was rightfully veto’d would a0 legitimize criminal acts, and throws the entire mess into a “he said, she said’ argument. The veto does not challenge the right to defend oneself if necessary….it merely affirms that if you have a way to get out of the situation, then listen to the music and get out.

        • Raggs

          No not hardly dude… As a matter of fact we have the right to protect others as well… If you find yourself at Wal-Mart and an armed man is robbing someone else ( at gun point ) and he fires his weapon you then have the right to use lethal force…

          This happened 3 years ago in my state during Christmas… But at the time no other person was armed so the robber shot and killed a man and flead the scene.. he was later captured and charged with murder, but if someone had been there the victim may be alive today…

          I went through a concealed carry class… Car-jacking / intrusions / defending others these are just a few things you learn…
          Most people do not know that we have the same rights as the police…

          • Vicki

            Raggs writes:
            “…and he fires his weapon you then have the right to use lethal force…”

            Generally you do NOT have to wait for him to fire his weapon to use lethal force. He had the ability (gun) and opportunity (present in the store and displaying the gun in a threatening manner). Plus there was jeopardy (the person you were protecting was present).

          • 45caliber

            Raggs:

            Several years ago, in Dallas, a man waited outside one of the bigger malls for his ex-wife to get off work. When she came out, he shot her. After she fell, he stood over her and continued to shoot.

            A man driving up had a gun with him. He jumped out and ordered the shooter to stop. The shooter turned toward him and the man killed him.

            Unfortunately the wife was dead. The man had shot her ten times.

            The DA looked at the case and thanked the man for shooting the criminal. All was forgotten – almost.

            A couple of weeks later, a small group of people from New England flew down and demanded the DA try the man for murder. THeir arguments were:
            the wife was already dead and therefore he couldn’t justify trying to save her life. The man’s gun was empty when he turned to face him so he couldn’t justify saving his own life by shooting him. THerefore he committed murder by shooting the criminal.

            The DA listened in disbelief. Finally he said, “I don’t know what y’all do up there in New England. But down here that man was paid for. I think y’all need to go back home and hunt murderers there.”

          • Vicki

            The living man could not know the woman was dead. He could not know the gun was empty unless it was set open by the last shot. Even then a “reasonable man would be looking at the opening of the barrel and seeing little else of the gun. I think the DA was overly diplomatic.

        • Tony

          Flash-in-the-pan, You miss the whole point. This is the USA and our constitition gives us the right to defend ourselves. Enter my home,uninvited, armed or not and you will either be on your way to the hospital or to the grave.

          • Vicki

            Actually your Creator gave you those rights Tony. They existed before the Constitution and will exist till the end of existence itself. The Constitution merely limits government from infringing on those rights.

            Should the Constitution be the source of your rights I could take your rights away just by getting our fellow citizens to vote to change the Constitution.

            Oh and they would be properly named as PRIVILEGES.

          • HFlashman

            Tony..the law doesn’t apply to invasion of the hme. And the example Crystal used was walking in S Philly at 3:00 a.m. try again, just this time read carefully what is written. And think.

          • James

            Tony, Vicki is right, we have an unalienable right to bear arms, and everyone was exercising that right before they created the federal government. The Second Amendment merely prevents the U.S. Congress from infringing on the right. Forty-four state constitutions have similar restrictions on them, and in the six that don’t, like California, the people still have the right.

        • JC

          Wrong on every level Flash.
          If someone is in my house, they better hopw I’m in a good mood.
          Otherwise there will be no “he said she said” scenario as only one person will be telling the story.
          Don’t like it? Stay out of my house.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Way to tell it, JC!

          • HFlashman

            JC…I never said to walk from one’s castle. I spoke about what the law stated. Sorry, but reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Either that, or you can’t read in the first place.

          • JC

            You missed the point Flask, apparently “comprehension” is not your strong point…
            Point is if I need to defend myself, my family or my property, location is irrelevent, regardless of what the ridiculous
            “Laws of Control” say…get it yet?
            Gun Control is none of the Governments damned business in anyway anywhere at anytime – period.

        • JeffH

          HFlash’s arguements are straight out of Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals”.

          #3. “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

    • Rosco1776

      HFlashman, you can go and retreat but I will stop him dead in his tracks. Retreat so the criminal can go out and do it again and again, I think not. You have obviously never had your house broken into, I wish you no harm but when you do you’ll find out. I will defend myself and my family.

      • HFlashman

        Roscoe….I said nothing against protecting home, family or self.

        To make it clear…outside of home, and when family or self are not in immediate danger of harm….when is it correct to become the aggressor? At what moment does anyone ‘see” when it is right to attack someone?

        Hw does this law if not veto’d change the Right to protect oneself when in immediate danger of harm?

        C’mon hotshots…you’re so incensed this law was veto’d… go ahead and tell everyone how you legitimize violence when not in immediate danger.

        • Teresa

          You legalize violence by this…if someone breaks into your home with any means of intent…by this I mean even if you do have means of escape why should you??? You stand your ground…This is your home, your family, YOU STAND YOUR GROUND and you use force to remove them by any means! And by that I mean I will pull my gun out and I will shoot you where you stand!

          • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

            Teresa,

            I agree with you,100 percent.

          • HFlashman

            Teresa…OUTSIDE your home! Why can’t anyone read in this forum???????

          • http://?? Joe H.

            OK Flushed,
            Outside! I come out my door and there is my neighbor on the ground and his wife standing there under the gun of a person I KNOW isn’t a cop. I’m gonna use my perogerative to protect the mans wife and maybe him if he isn’t already dead!!! CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?!?!?!?

        • Angel Wannabe

          Flashman, The real point here, that most bills amendments or what have you are all legal jargon and so broad based, they allow ANYTHING to be changed, dictated or added at any time, why don’t you wake up?___

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          HFlashman… If I come home and find someone in my home, or my front door open, I would immediately believe myself to be in immediate danger. Someone breaking a window in the middle of the night to get in, my first thought is immediate danger. Anyone on my property I don’t know I would consider myself in immediate danger. That doesn’t mean I have to shoot them, but why isn’t it okay to be prepared? I don’t have my carry permit yet, but I will eventually get one. If you think you can fend someone off without losing your own life or theirs, wonderful. I can’t nor would I be expected to. You may have had special ops training, I haven’t. My Chihuahuas won’t be much good in a home invasion either. Protecting my home and family shouldn’t be up for discussion, ever.

          • 45caliber

            It is against the law to carry without a permit. BUT … in Texas no woman has ever been convicted of it. Only men. All a woman has to say was that she was fearful for her life and the jury turns her loose. When we go to some bad area, my wife carries. But she insists she is going to give me the gun if it is necessary.

        • JeffH

          HFlash is using #13.
          Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and ‘frozen.’…”…any target can always say, ‘Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?’ When your ‘freeze the target,’ you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments…. Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the ‘others’ come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target…”One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other.”

        • 45caliber

          flashy:

          Tell me, if you and your wife leave a restaurant late at night and someone attacks you, do you become the aggressor by pulling out a gun? There isn’t a law anywhere as far as I know (certainly not here in Texas) that would call you the aggressor. The man who attacked is.

          If you honestly believe that pulling the gun makes you the agressor instead of the defender, I certainly hope you live in some state like the NE where they might believe that drivel.

          • HFlashman

            45….the veto of the law in question does not change the facts as you present that self defense is legitimate. Try again. Now…if the scenario wer the same…and you ‘thought’ you were about to be robbed/beaten/raped…and you shot the guy(s)…are you justifed?

          • JC

            Don’t bother .45. Anyone who needs to even ask a question
            like that is a moron.

          • Claire

            Hflashman–Anyone with half a brain KNOWS if and when they are being attacked. If I am attacked, I WILL retaliate. It is a matter of self-preservation. It is eithe them or me. I will choose me.

          • Claire

            “either”

        • Vicki

          HFlashman says:
          “To make it clear…outside of home, and when family or self are not in immediate danger of harm….when is it correct to become the aggressor? At what moment does anyone ‘see” when it is right to attack someone?

          This link will get you started on your journey of discovery.

          http://www.useofforce.us/3aojp/

          • 45caliber

            Vicki:

            If you notice, flashy’s argument is that if you do pull a gun – regardless of what the criminal is armed with or what he is doing – YOU become the aggresser and he is the defender, the victim. All false of course.

          • Vicki

            I noticed :) That is why I chose links that specifically deal with deadly force and gun.

          • HFlashman

            “In other words, even when the ability, opportunity, and jeopardy criteria are satisfied, and knowing that you must clearly do something to protect yourself, the use of force, particularly lethal force, may only be that “something” if you have no other safe options.”

            OK..and veto’ing the law changes this how? Follow a more enlightned path on your journey Vicki…you’ll be safer and happier

          • Vicki

            HFlashman writes:
            “Follow a more enlightned path on your journey Vicki…you’ll be safer and happier”

            I do thank you. That is why I am safer (I have guns) and happier (I do not worry about criminals)

            Lo I walk thru the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil for God is my light, Christ is my savior, and Mr Smith and Mr Wesson my constant companions.

        • JimH

          Flash, If you have a chance to run and you take it, you will be saved. You just gave the intruder, who YOU could have stopped the chance to go to another house, where they may not be able to run. By not stopping them, someone else could be killed.

          • Vicki

            And unfortunately the law is very clear on that. I MUST let the perp run away to rape and kill again. Of course if the next victim is also armed and dangerous the perp will be stopped then but I do not have the right of defense of another because the opportunity and jeopardy are not present.

            This is btw an extension of the legal concept of prior restraint which is a power we deny our government and one we deny ourselves.

          • JC

            Actually to hear Flash’s rationalizations he could run away and the intruder could then have his wife.

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            what if the assaliant is faster than you at running. Why bother; just give him the old double tap. One in the head and one in the chest.

        • Dan az

          Flash
          said (At what moment does anyone ‘see” when it is right to attack someone? )The word attack is where you get it wrong it should be defend!!!

          • JC

            Firearms are for hunting and self defense…with a little target shooting thrown in for recreation.
            They aren’t weapons until they are used in an act of aggression or war.
            The LibComs will get all hysterical at the distinction I’m sure.

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Rosco1776,

        Here is what a famous liberal said.

        Hubert H. Humphrey (vice president)
        “Certainly, one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms. … [T]he right of the citizen to bear arms is just one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible.”Liberals for gun rights.

    • 45caliber

      flashy:

      You want an example?

      Any time someone attacks you or a family member, you have a right to defend yourself and them. Anytime, anywhere. If they immediately start backing away, you might let them go (I wouldn’t since I’d feel that I would be guilty of the next attack they make on someone else). But you CAN hold them for the police if you don’t want to kill them. If he honestly is a threat … he’s dead. I don’t want him attacking us and I won’t allow him to go to jail so he can be paroled to attack someone else.

      Incidently, you sell your ‘life’ and talents to an employer to acquire the money to buy something. If a burglar or robber tries to take that item they are actually taking part of your life – and if you resist it is self defense.

      If you don’t want to resist, that’s up to you. But I would certainly feel sorry for your family and wonder why your wife would stay with you.

      • HFlashman

        And veto’ing this insane law changes that concept how?

  • Henry

    By federal law I have the right to my gun. I have used it before and I assure you, only a fool would think a law by a liberal coward and his minion of morons would prevent me from placing a well aimed round in the middle of a creeps forehead, should they confront me anywhere. I’ll let a jury judge my decision. Not a liberal coward.

    • 45caliber

      I hope you live in the South or West, at least.

      One man in Arkansas shot his wife because she was both attacking and just plain nasty. He was sentenced by the jury to one day suspended sentence for murder because he confessed and they figured she deserved to be shot. The prosecutor almost messed himself.

      • JimH

        45, “It was a mercy Killin Judge. I put her out of MY misery.

      • JC

        Then there was the woman in Texas who shot a purse snatcher six times.
        When the judge asked her why she shot him six times she said because the seventh time it just went “click”. Case dismissed.
        Source Unverified.

    • Vicki

      Henry says:
      “By federal law I have the right to my gun.”

      By Divine providence you have the right to your gun. Federal law if applicable at all merely recognizes (and hopefully protects) the right granted you by your Creator.

      Also always shoot to stop. Never to kill. Knowing that the perp may well not survive the incident. That is between him and his creator.

      • 45caliber

        Vicki, you are certainly correct. I’ve never tried to kill anyone when I was shooting.

        • JC

          I’ve been in some tight situations but never pulled a gun.
          If I ever get that far though, I’m sure I’ll unload it at the threat.
          If 8 rounds out of a .45 won’t solve your problems…you need another clip! :)

      • JimH

        Vicki, A wounded person can still shoot, so after you stop him, don’t turn your back, keep him covered.

        • Claire

          Aim for the knees/legs and like you said never turn your back on them.

          • Kate8

            Claire – Is everything okay with you? You haven’t been around much lately.

            God bless.

          • Claire

            Kate8–Hi!!! I have commented on a few articles lately and I have taken time to read a lot of the posts. My husband has more health issues, been busy with the dogs, still working and geez time goes by so fast. I am getting some of my Christmas decorations up in the house, now I have to get all my deer out and get them in the front yard. I have the dogs’ rooms decorated. Looks like day care. Thank you for asking, it is very kind of you. I hope all is well with you!!

          • JeffH

            Claire, hope you had a wonderfull T-giving. Agree with ya’!
            I’ll aim for the chest and tap the second shot in the numb skull, that’ll save ya from any later lawsuit from the perp.

          • Claire

            JeffH–I have always heard that it is best if the creep is shot and killed, rather than just maim them. And if the creep is shot and killed inside your home, there has to be evidence of forcible entry.

          • Vicki

            I live in the peoples republic of kalifornia. I am not allowed to shoot the knees. I HAVE to shoot to center of mass. Shooting to wound would be used against me saying that I was not really in fear of my life. If I ever have to shoot it will be to center of mass and if still moving to the cranial ocular cavity.

            Oh and they will be considered a viable threat till I have sufficient backup to not have to worry about them getting up when I am not looking :)

          • Kate8

            Claire – You decorated the dog’s rooms? Rooms? Do they each have their own?

            I love it!! If my house were bigger, my cats would have rooms, too!

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Do that and you’ll probably miss. If you wound him some dirt-bag jury just may find you guilty in a civil suit. then you can support him for the rest of it’s life. after all you took away his criminal profession.

          • Claire

            Kate8–LOL A lot of people tell me that when they die they want to be reincarnated as one of my dogs! I have 8 dogs–several are getting rather elderly, these 4 are in the blue bedroom. The other 4 are in the green bedroom. Bob and I are down to one bedroom. I have another bedroom downstairs but it is full of plants that I bring indoors for the winter-it is crammed along with canned goods, etc. I keep the house clean and their rooms are cute. I hate to say this but I have been to peoples’ homes that have a lot of dogs and geez I was horrified. Talk about a mess. I think this is why I am so paranoid about keeping their rooms clean. I wash their bedding every other day, and it is a lot of work. Nails to grind, teeth to keep clean, baths, ears to keep clean. Every once in awhile I will show one of the old ones in the Veterans class at dog shows. The old ones get the same care as the younger ones. No one is slighted. They are all champions except for Vinnie and Brunnie. I must get Vinnie and Brunnie’s championship within this next year. They are my last hoorah since I have to outlive what I have.
            I have a lot of German Shorthaired Pointer statues, and their pictures are on the walls, especially the “winning” photos, plus ribbons and award plaques. I have always loved dogs, and I take good care of them. They have given me a lot of happiness and I am proud of them. My husband used to hunt with the old ones, and he has had many many happy days with them. Bob loves these dogs as much as I do, thank the good Lord! I suspect people think I am nuts but this is me, this is what I have enjoyed doing for so many years.

          • Claire

            Kate8–I wish to add that the dogs are outside for most of the day providng the weather is decent. Bob has been retired for about ten years so he takes care of them during the day-I come home for lunch. I would not dare let any dog stay out all night and we watch them during the day when they are outside. The perverts around here steal dogs from backyards and use them for bait for their pit bulls. The dog fighting rings are bad in Illinois.

  • Jan Scallan

    Why does “half-assed man” keep coming to this site dribbling his garbage. Doesn’t Olberman have a site he can visit and be with his own kind? He is pretty tiresome and beyond plain ignorance.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Jan, we found if you take the Liberals food away, such as responses, then like flies they’ll go somewhere else to feed.

      • JeffH

        Yepper!

      • Kate8

        Yeah, but we never do. And they keep coming back with their idiocy, day after day.

        Mostly I don’t read their tripe. One can only have so much patience with stupid.

        • Dan az

          The last couple of days if you noticed there is alot more of them.Same fly’s same crap!

  • FlaJim

    Here in Florida, like many other states, the state legislature has addopted the Castle Doctrine giving us the right to stand our ground anywhere where our lives, loved ones, or property are threatened. To my knowledge, this right has been exercised only two or three times in the past year and we’re the fourth most populated state.

    The ridiculous extent to which the anti gun crowd will go was illustrated about 30 years ago in Toronto, Canada. Three thugs broke into a man’s home, tied him up and threw him in a closet while they raped his wife and mother in law. The man was able to loosen his bonds, load the shotgun he kept in there, and shot 2 of the thugs as they ran off. The thugs got 5 years in prison. The man got 10.

    • Raggs

      Europe is like that also… The criminals there do whatever they want and get away with it… The thing is if you have an intruder don’t just wound him… kill him…

      • Vicki

        Never shoot to wound. Only shoot to stop. Accepting the fact that he may not survive. That is, of course, between him and his Creator.

        My training is 2 shots to center of mass, if not stopped, 1 shot to cranial ocular cavity.

      • 45caliber

        One case on record in England that doesn’t concern a gun …

        A 275 lb. man broke into a 20 year old woman’s apartment. She weight 110. He attacked and tried to rape her. She sprayed him in the face with pepper spray and called the cops.

        He got 1 year for breaking in, assault, and attempted rape. She got 2 years for “using undo force to subdue an unarmed man.”

        And people wonder why we don’t do the same thing here!

    • 45caliber

      In England, self defense is not a defense in court.

      A farmer of 70 had been robbed by the same two men about two days after he received his retirement check for 7 months in a row. The police refused to do anything – even though he was beaten each time.

      The eighth time they showed up, he used a single barrel shotgun on them. He killed one of them and wounded the other. He was arrested and sentenced for first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison (the worst sentence they can give there). The prosecutor stated that he needed to be locked up because he was a clear threat to the life of any burglar.

    • 45caliber

      Oh, I forgot to add … the burglar got two years for burglary but was out in six months. It was his 34th CONVICTION – and he was only about 35 years old.

      • Dan az

        45
        sounds like calif.laws except they would of let the burglar go and let him sue the guy that shot him and would now own his home.

    • JC

      FlaJim…goes to show governments don’t give a damn about people or justice. The only thing seperating the US from that same kind of garbage are some lines in ink on an old document…and we’d better protect and honor that document.

  • Henry

    Until such time the police can know where and when a creep is gonna commit a crime, and be there to prevent it instead of just showing up to make a report after we are all raped or dead. I’ll take care of any intruders who choose to kill themselves by confronting me.
    Informing my family I suffered a cruel death is not as much fun as telling the creeps family he died quickly.

  • HFlashman

    Right on ! Canandian law and custom is so relevant to US law and custom ! Wow…. how could any point be made without citing Canadian doctrine (and ‘facts” which can’t be verified at that !)

    • JC

      For comparison purposes it has more bearing than anything you Liberal Communists have to add, that’s for sure.

  • Henry

    Just like wild beasts who you stumble upon in the woods, agressive actions will sometimes make them back down and leave. Turn around and run, they will chase you down and eat you alive. Every time.

  • charles

    The only death that I’m not prepared to explain is my own.

  • Pete0097

    Ironic, as my parents PA home was constructed with places to stand in the chimneys so as to be able to shoot any attackers of the house (there also was a way to climb up the chimney. the shutters are 2 inch thick oak so as to repel attackers.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Pete, Everyone of my windows are punched tin shutters, two are solid wood__ I know, I made them!__attackers would need a can opener to get in, and then theres the dogs.

    • Karolyn

      Sounds like a cool house Pete. How old is it? I’m originall from NJ, and have seen stone homes with slit-type openings to shoot from.

  • Raggs

    Why is this even a subject?… Damm the liberals if they want an intruder raping their daughter so be it, but I will kill any that pose a threat to my family or myself lives. Plain and simple!

    As a matter of fact, if a criminal knows that a residence is armed locked and loaded he probably will have second thoughts about entering… If he doesn’t have second thoughts than oh well no lose..

    • 45caliber

      I understand in England some years ago, a man broke into the house of one of their liberal politicians.

      The politician did exactly what the liberals tell you to do to prevent harm to you and your family. He simply did everything he was told.

      The man tied him up to a chair and raped his wife and two young daughters.

      About two days later, his wife took the girls and left. She stated that she would never live with a man who refused to even try to protect his family. To my knowledge, he hasn’t seen them since. He was quite bitter about the whole thing.

      • Kate8

        45, Only a liberal would stand by and watch that happen. Sick.

        I’m glad his family left him. But then, what can you expect from an emasculated liberal. These guys really have messed up priorities.

  • LTCMSCUSAR1

    We in Pennsylvania can expect nothing less from “Fast Eddie, the Ragu Salesman.

    • Angel Wannabe

      LTCMSCUSAR1___Ain’t that the truth!

  • pennsyltuckian

    Anyone actually breathing in PA is a brighter light than Rendell other than Specter, Casey, and Sestak. Thank God for term limits. Just wish I could have voted against him after returning home but at least he is gone.

  • Mick

    Raggs says:
    December 2, 2010 at 8:51 am
    Europe is like that also… The criminals there do whatever they want and get away with it… The thing is if you have an intruder don’t just wound him… kill him…

    *******************************************************
    Raggs,,,,They have the right to own a shot gun in France and supposedly defend themselves but they better not miss, 2 rounds doesn’t exactly stands against a 9mm or even a six shooter..

    • 45caliber

      They don’t have even that right in England. “Self Defense is not a justified reason for harming someone.”

      • JC

        The English have lost their way in that regard.
        Best we don’t go there…

  • Karolyn

    Rendell the Ridiculous! Before I moved to SC, I was totally anti-gun. However, since moving to SC, where everybody has at LEAST gun (except me!), I have become more relaxed with gun ownership. In our county, crime is very low except for drugs and domestic abuse; and I believe it is so because criminals know that most homeowners do own guns. I don’t because I believe that having a gun means you are expecting something to happen; and when you expect something to happen, it will. I live in the woods by myself. I do have a dog, but I think he would hide behind me if somebody broke in. Oh, btw, they would not have to break in because I never lock my doors.

    • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

      Karolyn,

      Keep in mind.
      Cesare Beccaria, 18th Century Italian Criminologist
      The laws that forbid the carrying of arms … serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

    • 45caliber

      Karolyn:

      You better lock your doors. I grew up in Arkansas where we didn’t even have locks on the doors. But … there is a court ruling that if you leave your doors unlocked and someone gets in and takes something (gun, knife, whatever) using in a crime you can be sued because you didn’t take measures to prevent them from entering. If they break in, you are free and clear.

      My wife and I started locking our doors about 5 years ago due to that.

      • Claire

        45caliber–Back in the 50s and 60s we always left our car keys in the ignition. Remember that? At least we never had to “look” for our keys when we wanted to go somewhere. My husband and I lived in a small town and there was never any crime. The days of innocence.

        • Al Sieber

          Claire, I still leave my keys in the ignition most places I got theres not much stealing here. I sure hope your husband starts feeling better.

          • Dan az

            Hey Al
            Im the same here all of my cars have keys in them just incase someone needs a car.The house dosent even have a lock but dose have a very big rottwiller that will let you in but wont let you out.He’s a roman rott and weighs 180 lbs.Never had a problem here either!

          • Claire

            Al Sieber—I always hang my car keys by the front door–that way I never have to look for them! My husband has a lot of issues, it is almost unbelievable. He is such a good person. Sometimes I want to rant and rave because I think it is so unfair. Bad things should not happen to good people but this is what life is all about. A person has to take the good along with the bad. If a person has their health they are very fortunate. Thank you for your kind words.

          • Claire

            Dan az—You have a Rottie!!! I had a Rottie back in the early 80s. He was a rescue. We named him Bon Bon. He was a wonderful dog. He was so good with the family. He looved his basketball and he was a good watchdog. He never barked much but when he did we paid attention. I cannot say enough good things about Bon. He loved us and we loved him. He was about ten and a half years old when we had to put him down. He had liver cancer. It is very hard to part with a good dog.

          • Dan az

            Claire
            His name is Jake and it fits.He thinks hes the great protector especially of my youngest grandson.Ive had rotties only for about 20 years now and probably wouldnt have any other kind.But you know there bad trait and I have to ask,He sleeps at the foot of the bed and being 180 lbs he is huge the question is how do you get rid of the unbelievably long drown out FARTS?

          • Claire

            Dan az–I know what you mean about farts. Silent but deadly. Bon would never sleep on the bed, he laid on a big dog bed on the floor. He weighed about 110 pounds. He was short and stocky built. He would “break wind” once in a awhile but not too often. When he did, we all scattered! I would use the air sanitizer.
            One time in the middle of the night Bon started barking and raising heck. We got up, the next thing we knew fire engines were racing down out street. Four houses down from us, a house was on fire. John and Nancy got out with their little dog but their house was burned to the ground. John had a heart attack a couple of days later and was never able to work again. It was tragic. They lost everything and they stood in the street crying. We all cried. What amazes me is that Bon started barking BEFORE the fire engines arrived! Bon knew something bad was happening. Yes, dogs are man’s best friend.

          • Dan az

            Claire
            That is so true when jakes out on the porch I watch him stick his nose up in the air and I can tell there is some cows coming and about ten minutes later there they are.Sorry to here about your friends.

    • JeffH

      Karolyn, good that you’ve become more “comfortable” with guns.

      However,I’ll say this, not meant to be critical but informational. Your statement that if you own a gun you are expecting a crime to happen and a shooting will be more likely is totally erroneous.

      There are probably more people that buy their guns primarily for hunting and shooting sports and I would suspect more often than not,a purchase exclusivly for self protection is secondary but a very important consideration.

      More than 19 million Americans safely participate in target shooting alone and reports estimates that approximatly 21.8 million Americans hunted at least once during the past five years.

      Could I suggest taking a peak at this website, the National Shooting Sports Foundation. Their Mission Statement: To promote, protect and preserve hunting and the shooting sports.
      http://www.nssf.org/industry/aboutNSSF.cfm

      • Angel Wannabe

        Jeffh, Your around my age, you had to be raised with guns and they’re use, like I was. Hell, I shot my Dads 30.6 at 9 years old__I went all over tin cups off the picnic table, b/c Dad hadn’t put the recoil on yet and I held it sloppy at my shoulder.__but I shot, Shotguns and pistols__in my 30′s I learned how to use a compound bow and arrow__If all else fails, my days in women’s baseball’ll come in handy, cuz i can still swing a bat!__line__ People must stay or get educated about safety and the use of firearms.

        • 45caliber

          Just 9?? I started shooting at 5 – just like everyone else I knew. My kids started then too.

          • Angel Wannabe

            I do just fine 45! :)

      • JeffH

        Angel and 45caliber, I was raised around shotguns but wasn’t allowed to shoot one until I turned 11 at a fun “ham shoot” with my dad’s dog club, German Shorthair Club of California. I ended up with a bloody nose, the shotgun was a bit bigger than I was. I’d been going bird hunting with my dad since I was 6 or 7 and I bought my first shotgun when I was 14. I didn’t own a rifle until I was 26, in 1976 and bought my first handgun, a Colt Python, in 1981. Guns have always been a part of something I love and I appreciate all types of guns, like a good bottle of wine or fine artwork. It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.
        Guns don’t make bad people, people make bad people.

        • Angel Wannabe

          Well said!__Jeffh

          • 45caliber

            Jeff:

            Agreed. As an ex-hillbilly, I’ve been around guns or shooting them all my life. I like them fine even though my wife is uncertain that I need that many.

          • JeffH

            45caliber, I’d like to get back what I had to sell while I was out of work back in ’07…a heartbreak and 40+ years of collecting…but I had to pay the rent someway! At least I know they’re in the hands of people that I know and respect and can appreciate them for what they are.

      • JC

        JeffH – Further to your comment to Karolyn…
        I have a fire extinguisher in my house,
        even though I’m not expecting a fire.
        I have house insurance and no expectation of disaster.
        I have a first aid kit and no plans to hurt myself.
        I have a shovel in the shed and I’m not digging any more holes…unless I “need to”.
        I have a gun in my house…and no “intention” of killing anyone.

        They’re tools, that’s all.

        • JeffH

          AHHHH JC, if one can’t understand your analogy then one can’t understand…period!

    • Claire

      Karolyn–You never lock your doors?? Even when you go to bed at night? You are asking for trouble. In a lot of the counties near me there have been a tremendous amount of rural burglaries, etc. Rural crime is on the “upswing,” at least in this neck of the country it is rampant. In a nearby town, out in the country, a woman was walking and when she got near her house, a white pickup truck was in her driveway. When she got in the house, they shot and killed her. It was a terrible crime. They have not found the person that killed her. One never knows what can happen anytime or anywhere. So watch yourself and keep safe.

  • Mick

    Karolyn says:
    December 2, 2010 at 9:29 am
    Rendell the Ridiculous! Before I moved to SC, I was totally anti-gun. However, since moving to SC, where everybody has at LEAST gun (except me!), I have become more relaxed with gun ownership. In our county, crime is very low except for drugs and domestic abuse; and I believe it is so because criminals know that most homeowners do own guns. I don’t because I believe that having a gun means you are expecting something to happen; and when you expect something to happen, it will. I live in the woods by myself. I do have a dog, but I think he would hide behind me if somebody broke in. Oh, btw, they would not have to break in because I never lock my doors.
    *******************************************
    Karolyn ……….It’s fine and dandy but try that in a Urban area, don’t forget that our society’s mentality has change drastically since the days when we all could leave our doors unlocked and even then people had guns just in case for some fluke some nut would try to burglarize, rape or kill you.
    We have guns locked and ready to go and will not hesitate to use them, the only part that bothers me about the whole deal is that i have to worry more about the 12 jurors at my trial, with my luck half of them would be liberals.

    • Vicki

      They would all have to find you guilty so you should be ok.

    • libertytrain

      Mick – I live on a mountain – rural and in NC – I lock my doors and would be more inclined in SC.

  • Bob Wire

    It sounds more like “political” rangling then a ideology to me.

    As we find so often in politics , a simple up or down vote fails to offer anyone a complete view of any one issue or position.

    Political hay ~

    Where might we be without political hay?

    I truly doubt if anyone expects citizens to offer a defenseless posture.

    As told me by the ancient ones, “There more then one way to skin a cat”

    • 45caliber

      But skinning that cat is very difficult without the proper tools. In fact, if you aren’t careful, that cat can skin you.

  • 2WarAbnVet

    “Those who deny me the freedom to carry a firearm with which to protect my family and myself, are as complicit and guilty as the perpetrator should we be harmed or murdered by an act of violence.”
    - Charles F. “Chuck” Bearden

    • Tony

      2WarAbnVet, I believe that pretty much says it all. Thanks!

    • 45caliber

      I agree. And I wish we could file charges against them for it too. But Congress and state legislators are exempt from such things.

  • Mick

    2WarAbnVet says:
    December 2, 2010 at 10:17 am
    “Those who deny me the freedom to carry a firearm with which to protect my family and myself, are as complicit and guilty as the perpetrator should we be harmed or murdered by an act of violence.”
    - Charles F. “Chuck” Bearden
    **********************************

    CAN’T ARGUE WITH THAT 2WarAbnVet………

  • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

    Jefferson;

    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. … Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. — (Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764; see below)

    • 45caliber

      True.

      A “hot” burglary is one where the burglar KNOWS the owner is home when he breaks into a house to rob it. In the US, less than 10% of all burglaries are hot.

      But in England, since they have banned guns, 90% are hot. The criminals know they are safe so they want to force the owner to give them anything hidden as well as open.

      In fact, one 80+ year old woman had her house wrapped in barbed wire since a couple of burglars were robbing her right after she received her SS (equivalent) check every month. The police made her remove it because it might “harm a burglar”.

  • Aix Sponsa

    quote “Perhaps a stroll through South Philly after 3 a.m. might change his perspective.” endquote

    I agreee with a person’s right to self defense with a firearm.

    Would anyone with common sense deliberately go there?

    If the government gave bullets on welfare, maybe the problem would be self eliminating?

    • 45caliber

      Houston has about 2-3 murders a day. But, according to a Houston police officer, about 90% of those murders are drug and gang related. He told me, partly seriously, that if they confined their shooting to each other, he’d be happy to provide them with ammunition.

      • Angel Wannabe

        45__Hell if they just have to offer up ammo, why get out of the cruiser?__lol

        • Dan az

          Angel
          First you would have to teach them how to hold the gun so as not to miss what there shooting at.Side ways just dosent cut it.

  • RAH-RAH

    Like the saying goes, “…when seconds count, the police are just minutes away!” I like my way better: My 9mm semi-auto pistol sitting in my bedside table, and a gun safe filled with other “theft-preventing” firearms. And, as a retired police officer, I also made sure I obtained my CHL just as soon as I could after retiring!

    • Al Sieber

      RAH-RAH, I even have 2 “Flare” guns loaded, one 12Ga. and a 8Ga., they would cause a lot of damage, always be prepared.

  • http://com i41

    Mick, the judge is sure to be a socialist liberal. If People with drug dealers and definirely kingpins were handled like China did when britian tried to destroy the country, shoot the addict, the seller and the kingpin. No repeat offenders. We all know Onumnutts covered allphases by his books, and probably still does all three phases. Clintons sure did, since Janet Reno had Whorehound by the nads, in more ways than one, since she buffaloed him to be AG. Fastest was to clean up gang areas is disposed any tatooerd scumbag on the spot nation wide. Then neutor any welfare mother and any sperm donor on the spot, sperm donor just use a bardeeso, it is effective and bloodless. Drug test the prison and dispose the socialital scum on the test day, same goes for all the damn illegals and beltway smucks.

    • 45caliber

      Back about 1910 ALL drugs were legal. You could get heroin or cocaine at your local pharmacy by asking.

      But things got so bad on families due to drug use and one crime that it was decided to make them illegal. The FBI was used.

      They cured the problem by making things so bad on anyone caught, particularly any dealers, that it went away. It was a minimum of 20 years on the hard rock pile (literally) to deal drugs. Few made that twenty years due to the hard life there. All records were then locked up in fear that the youth might get curious as to why it was bad.

      They opened those records about 7-8 years ago and found out what happened then. If I remember correctly, it was a person who wanted to legalize the drugs who found them – and was shocked at what he read about conditions with legalized drugs.

      Today, with the PC on prisons, you could never convince them to leave drugs alone. Many of those in prison, despite the sob sisters, like it there. They no longer have to worry about anything except getting attacked by another inmate and even that isn’t much of a problem due to the guards, etc. So not stress. They know exactly what to do and where they will be every minute.

      As one told me, “I’ve got three good meals a day, a good bed, someone to do my laundry, a ho in the next bunk, and you guards to wait on me all the time.”

      • JC

        Gee, going by your description it sounds like a Liberal Paradise. LOL

  • Teresa

    The reason the argument is being brought up is because Obama is pushing w/the UN Treaty AGAIN to disarm us…..you ALL need to contact you Senators and Congressmen/women reg: Our 2nd Amendment rights…keep focus on the NRA website post and the UN updates…

    • 45caliber

      Your Congressmen are not involved. Just the Senators … they are the ones who vote to approve treaties. So make sure they know you are against that treaty.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Were SOL on that 45__Our Senators are all friggin Liberals!

        • 45caliber

          It still doesn’t hurt to let them know. Some Dems will listen if enough people gripe. Maybe yours will.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Nup, tried to contact!__I Only recieve form letters in return.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Our Senators are Casey and Specter__Any Questions?_lol

          • 45caliber

            Angel, I feel for you. At least in Texas most of the people have some common sense.

          • JeffH

            Yeah? Bet mine is worse! Try Babs Boxer….%@*&X*#!

          • Claire

            Don’t forget Dick Durbin.

    • Vicki

      Treaties can NOT override the protections in the Constitution.

      This is just 1 link on the subject
      http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/limited_gov_treaty.htm

      • Al Sieber

        Vicki, thanks for the link.

      • Dan az

        Viki
        Thank you! I doubt that I would ever have found that keep up the good work!I really like this part the best.
        (c) Foreign Aid

        The Constitution (including its Treaty Clause) was designed to accomplish–as to limiting the powers of the Federal government–what is contemplated with regard to all governments created by the people as their instruments: primarily to make and keep secure their God-given, unalienable rights (and the supporting rights, notably the right to property) according to the Declaration of Independence. It is a violation of this fundamental law of the people for the Federal government to deprive the people of their property by taxation in order to donate to foreign governments, or peoples, the funds thus obtained, or things purchased with these funds–whether or not sanctioned ostensibly by a treaty; that is, except to the extent that this is authorized by the words “common Defence” in the Constitution’s Taxing Clause: “provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States.” This means that any donation abroad of funds or things, military or any other kind, by the Federal government–in order to be authorized by the Constitution–must contribute substantially and directly to the “common Defence… of the United States,” meaning the national defense: the actual, military, physical defense of the American homeland. Under the Constitution as amended, Congress and the President completely lack any power to act the benevolent role abroad with the American people’s property–money or any other type. This is true as to all so-called “foreign aid”–whether military, economic or financial–however accomplished: by gift, or loan, or by any other device or method, and whether done openly, or by subterfuge. Individuals may, of course, give such aid out of their own property (money) as they please.

        • Dan az

          Bob livingston
          I think this would be a good article on how they have been breaking the constitution with sending 3 trillion dollars to the IMF and are not being challenged dont you?

          • Vicki

            I think so and we should point out that it has been going on for a LONG time.

  • 45caliber

    Does everyone REALLY want to stop violence like car-jacking, assault, burglary, etc? Make is manditory that ALL adults carry all the time.

    No one in his right mind (and very few who aren’t in their right mind – including liberals who are NEVER in their right minds) would start something in a store or on the street. Now when he knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that everyone including the person he wants to attack is carrying a gun.

    • Angel Wannabe

      $5__it used to be, Laws were made for those THAT DON’T ABIDE BY THE LAW, but now they use it against the victims.

      • Angel Wannabe

        lol__45___

      • 45caliber

        Sad but true.

        • Dan az

          I kinda like it!$5 dolla reminds me of the philippines!!!lol

  • sentinel

    My wife and I both have ccw. We have had them for several years. In fact we have them from 3 different states. Meaning we have been checked out. That being said, we are both proficient with them. She has over 80 hours of tactical pistol training from Gunsite Acadmey. She went from a 30′ group to 1″ group at 21′. draw and shoot in 1.5 seconds. We live in one of the western states and live in the country. Self preservation is a way of life and a mind set that most of the people out here have. Retreat is mostly unacceptable. I will not back down, but I also will not go looking for trouble just because I have a side arm. I have on several occasions taken the easy path to avoid a conflict. Carrying a side arm also carries a mountain of responsibility and is not to be taken lightly.
    ON one occasion, when my wife and I were traveling, we stopped to get coffee and a coke. The state where we live is an open carry state so I was wearing my 45 1911 in its holster cocked and locked. As we walked in I noticed 2 men at the front front of the store and 2 at the back. Not reallyu paing any attention but watching them. They saw my side arm and all 4 walked out and drove off. The cashier told me coffee was on the house, we paid for the cokes and chips. He was unarmed. He said they had been in store for 5 min. and looked at nothing. Do not know what their intentions were but nothing happened. I am very thankful of that.

    • Angel Wannabe

      sentinel__Sometimes, just a mere presence is enough of a deterrent.

    • JC

      Thanks for sharing, I totally get what you mean by mountain of responsibility. And it is.

  • RAPTOR- California

    If you want to see what an unarmed citizen has in store for themselves, look at Mexico and their firearms ban. It’s true that “When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” You can bet your bippy that the good citizens of Mexico wouldn’t be putting up with the drug cartels if they could protect themselves but instead are being murdered. DUH!

    • 45caliber

      A lot of the guns identified as coming from the US are found in the hands of otherwise lawful families who have one to defend themselves with. The gangs, on the other hand, like to use M-16s given by our government to the Mexican army or AK-47s bought from Russia.

      Actually when the anti-gun people start insisting that 80% of the guns the drug gangs use come from the US, they are talking about only 13% of all guns found and identified. And even most of those are from families, not the gangs. And they certainly don’t get RPG’s, grenades, etc. from gun shops in the US.

    • Vicki

      Don’t even have to go look at Mexico. Check out New York and Washington DC.

  • j.McConnell
  • sentinel

    By the way for you liberals cock and locked is hammer back safety on.

  • Walt

    Just an observation about these folks that support taking guns away from Americans…Diane Feinstein, Ed Rendell, Bloomberg. I wonder why most, if not all, of these anti-gun folks happen to be Jewish.

    I would think, that due to their history of persecution, that these folks would be the most passionate supporters of the basic principal of self defense and the 2nd Amendment. Their seems to be a disturbing disconnect here. When it came to defending communism in Spain in 1936, hundreds of young Jews, primarily from New York, volunteered for the Lincoln Brigade and rushed illegally to Spain to take up arms against the Christian Nationalists. Apparently, they were comfortable with gun use to support communist thugs who murdered over 7,000 priests and nuns in cold blood. However, now it’s not OK with these folks for Americans to have guns to defend themselves against thugs in their own homes. Bizarre!

    • Al Sieber

      Walt,I disagree, “goggle” Jews for the preservation of fire arms.

  • GabbyJs

    What really gets me is the way Rendell is too stupid to realize that the new governor and legislature will pass this law no matter what he thinks. But of course this will be after the new legislature has to spend all the extra time and money to get it done. Typical way for the democrats to “work together” for the American people. They act like it will be their way or else.

  • http://www.gunthorp.com Gardner Behrends

    Thank goodness I’m old enough now that retreat is not practical. You just don’t want to mess with an old geezer who has to stand there and blow you away.

    The liberals call this the “make my day” or the “shoot’em first” law. Just as they cried “there’ll be blood in the streets!” if shall issue carry permit laws were passed, their hypothetical conjectures of doom and gloom have not occured in the states who have passed “Castle Doctrine” and “Stand Your Ground” laws. Perhaps the liberal’s sense of entitlement and the inner rage of victimhood are projecting onto the law abiding citizen when they assume these laws will turn us into aggressors. It’s best not to annoy them with facts and logic.

    • 45caliber

      If the blood is the blood of a criminal, who cares if there is blood in the streets? I certainly don’t!

      There is one old saying that I’ve always liked. You may like it too.

      “Never pick a fight with an old man. If he doesn’t feel like fighting he’ll kill you.”

      • Dan az

        45
        thats so true.Its more than a old saying here its the truth!

    • JC

      Florida was the first state to issue CC licenses. And coincidentally
      it’s crime rate droped to 60% of the national average within a year.

  • sentinel

    Thanks Angel and you are right. Just being in the right place at the right time. Divine intervention.

    Sioux Indian parable. ” a warrior dose not always have to fight, but he dose have to stand.”

  • Joe

    Remember what the messiah said when campaigning in PA, “they depend on their bibles and guns” . Good on Ya!

    • Angel Wannabe

      Joe_-It God and Guns got us this far!

  • S.C.Murf

    In 2007 the home invasion of the Petit family of Connecticut is proof that citizen’s needs to arm themselves. Dr. Petit will live with this horror until the day he die’s. What they did to his wife and daughters rips my heart out. Keep a weapon in your house and keep it loaded. A police officer once told me that an unloaded gun in time of crises offers no defense. The U.S. Army taught me how to shoot and handle weapons and they did a dam good job. As for me and mine do not come to my home uninvited.

    up the hill
    airborne

    • 45caliber

      All the way!

      • S.C.Murf

        Thanks Brother

    • Angel Wannabe

      SC Murf, That was a horrible, horrible crime__and Your right that man will have to live with that memory__So sad__BTW_It won’t bring his family back, but I believe the accused got a sentence of death recently.

      • 45caliber

        The sad thing is that he will probably die of old age before they carry out that sentence.

  • John R. Harbison

    Here in South Texas We have had home invasions for years. Had one last month less than a mile from my house. They almost beat the Grandfather and grandmother to death. Raped his dauther and 13 year granddauther repeatedly, stole everthing of value and left them tied up. They weren’t found intill noon the next day. I can not put into words how this makes me fell. We at my home down to the smallest grandchild or well train with firearms from shotguns, pistols,simiauto rifles as well as long range rifles,plus a pack of big dogs. I will not put my family in harms way. I have and will gaurd my freinds and neabors when I can. We live 3/4 mile off hwy on or ranch. We do not call 911 not unless we have time to once we are armed and ready. I would even try and protect You family if I could HFLASHMAN

    • S.C.Murf

      Stand your ground John and keep a watchful eye. Fleeing will only get you shot in the back.

      • Claire

        Running from man or beast equals one thing—you are prey.

    • 45caliber

      Years ago, Readers Digest was strongly anti-gun. They commissioned a think tank to prove that the places with the most guns have the most crime and vice versa.

      Instead they found that the places with the most guns had the least crime. RD refused to pay for the study so they sold it to the paper. RD sued on the grounds that they had commissioned the study and the think tank couldn’t release the info. The judge ruled that if they didn’t pay for it then they couldn’t complain is they sold it to someone else.

      The Number 1 place for the most guns? The Ozark Mountains in AR. Hillbilly country. Where I was raised. They had an average of 2.5 guns per person in the family. I counted my guns and had exactly that many then. And they also noted that if you didn’t believe the people there were serious about their guns you’d better not let a 5 year old see you attacking his mother. He’d go get a gun, load it, and shoot you with it!

  • Rick Quill

    The mentality of folks like Gov. Rendell, as well-intentioned as it may be, just isn’t pragmatic. First of all, I firmly believe that nobody who is in possession of a carry permit would prefer to stand and fight when they have the opportunity to retreat but sadly the likelihood of being able to retreat is minimal at best. Especially for those of us who are older and whose legs, hearts, lungs won’t allow us to run if given the opening to do so. So I guess Gov. Rendell feels it is better for a senior citizen or someone unable to run like a teenager to just stand there and face the possibility (or, probability, if the attacker is armed) of getting killed by some low-life. With that kind of mentality who need worry about Obamacare and the rationing of healthcare and end-of-life plans for those who are no longer considered productive citizens making a contribution to the labor forces? But I digress. The point is I am retired, in my 50′s with my faculties intact yet my body is not as young as it used to be. I’ve had knee surgeries to both knees and I know my muscles and joints have taken a severe “hit” as a result the Anthrax vaccine that was forced upon me several years ago against my will. Thus I know that if I were approached by a typically much younger attacker(s) armed with any kind of weapon(s) while I was, say, returning to my vehicle late at night in some mall parking lot I would not be in any shape to “retreat” so I’d be at the mercy of the punk(s). Now let me think here………..would I rather have to just sit there and accept the fact that I was going to be likely assaulted and left for dead (if not actually killed deliberately) or would I rather have the ability to pull my weapon, draw down on the assailant and order him to the ground and hold him while the police were called. Of course also, the assailant would have the opportunity to be the one doing the retreating too which would be all well and fine by me also. Either way, the police would be called, as thorough a description and report would be given to the LEO and I’d at least be alive to tell about my experience. And who knows…..maybe the telling of the event at a later date might even be to some legislator or, even, Gov. Rendell himself. The original intent of the 2nd amendment, I believe, may have been for other reasons like making sure Americans have the means to resist invading forces and oppressors (also known as subversives) deadset on taking away our freedoms and liberty but I believe that it was also included in the Constitution to guarantee ALL FREE men and women the right to self-preservation. And that is all those of us who are pro-gun advocates want……that guarantee to our right to protect and defend our homes, families and selves to remain intact.

    Allow me to leave any reader of this post with these words……

    A History of Gun Control Laws:

    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————
    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————
    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————

    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————
    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ——————————
    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
    ——————————
    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    —————————–
    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
    —————————–
    During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!
    With guns, we are ‘citizens;’ without them, we are ‘subjects’.
    You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

    Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens
    The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.
    —————————–
    SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN! SWITZERLAND’S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE EACH A RIFLE.
    SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
    IT’S A NO BRAINER! DON’T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

    Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

    • 45caliber

      What you show is right.

      A couple more things for you:

      Russia during Kruschef also backed down on an invasion of the US since everyone was armed. At least his son said so.

      And two other very low crime countries now are Chechoslavocia (can’t spell it) and Israel, believe it or not! In fact, Israel has one of the lowest rates of gun deaths in the world – despite PA.

      Israel demands that in every group of eight people or less at least one MUST be armed. All you have to do there is go the nearest police station and tell them what kind of gun you want and you get it.

      After Russia pulled out of Chech. crime was rampant. The police finally gave up and offered free guns to anyone who wanted to protect himself. Crime came almost to a standstill there.

      • Rick Quill

        45 – I believe you need to “refine” this statement a bit. It’s now the Czech Republic. Several years ago Czechoslovakia split up into two separate Republics and the Czech Republic adopted a much more westernized government while Slovakia stayed more true to the old tenets of the former communist Russia. In fact, the Czech Republic is likely the most liberal of all the European Union nations when it comes to gun laws. Just a little bit of history for you on this point.

    • Anthony

      The reason Switzerland is still allowed to have this type of situation, is because all the richest ellite-ists (Bilderbergers) on the Planet, all keep their money in Swiss Bank Accounts. The Clintons transferred their Mena, AK drug-running money to that Country, right after they left Office. Almost immediately.

      The minute Switzerland loses it’s ability to be THEE SAFE HAVEN for $$$$ that it is, today … you can bet, they too will find themselves in the same situation many other Countries.

  • Raggs

    Speaking of being armed…

    Why the hell dont we shot the sorry son of a bitch rangel?
    If any of us had the same violations against us we would be thrown in / under the jail… Oh he gets a small ass spanking and promises he will do better?… What a freakin joke… But I do not find it funny!

    • Rick Quill

      Because if we did he’d get his panties all wound up in a knot.

      • Raggs

        There is no excuse for this.. there is no excuse for the freakin kenyan… Damm them!

        • JC

          Careful Raggs, that’s a pretty fine line your riding there…

  • Claire

    Retreat??? Turn the other way??? Never. The old saying–get them before they get you applies. Bluntly speaking, it will be a cold day in hell if I retreat from some maniac trying to rob my home or harm me, my husband, my family and my dogs. I don’t go around looking for trouble but when trouble comes to me, I will do what I have to do. If they come looking for trouble, they have come to the right place for I sure will give them plenty to think about. This is no idle threat, this is exactly what I will do. At this point in my life, I have lived too long to put up with criminals.

    • JeffH

      Claire, I’ll echo that!

  • Anthony

    It was great, reading all the righteous commentary on this topic. Seriously!

    And, thanks for the compliments. I have 40+ John Wayne DVDs now. LOL

    Did all of you know, or realize, that thru all of these postings, almost no one mentioned (save one) which other Countries now are forbidden to carry or own a firearm?

    One person posted which Countries had taken that right away and what happened to their sane, rational and educated citizenry – just one.

    The two most important Countries in the world, save the good ol’ USA, that have had their 2nd Amendment rights removed and have had it that way for some time … are:

    1. Britain (this could actually be the British Isles – have to check)
    2. Australia – why they gave it up is beyond me, knowing their heritage.

    I know this – the New World Order Agenda cannot succeed, nor move forward (at this time) until they take “our” 2nd Amendment rights away. The Banking Elite know and understand this all too well.

    Hence, the only place you will read about the UN Small Arms Treaty WILL BE ONLINE. They do not discuss this Treaty in its full exposure on any other communications channel, …period.

    It is seen, and suspected by the Bilderbergers, as a way AROUND the US Constitution. How such a TREATY would override our own Country’s Founding Documents remains to be seen. I would have to go back and re-read all that I have bookmarked. In your research, you will find taht blue-uniformed UN Troops are now allowed to trapse all over our Country with immunity, ready to enforce whatever teh Bilderbergers deem appropriate.

    Side Note – At least one committee has voted to CENSURE Charles Rangel. He would be the first Representative to ever have that distinction, I believe (correct me, if I’m wrong). It was on NPR, while driving home, this evening.

    Personally, I think what Switzerland does for its Citizens, should be made Planetary Law. Crime would almost cease to exist, worldwide.

    We have any Brits on here, or Aussies …. who can discuss their situations ?

  • Hannibal Smith

    Lucky you.. Try living in n.y.s. the liberal capital, where idiots like Schumer would laugh at such a proposal to defend oneself..

    • Raggs

      Why pitty yourself when you have a choice?
      If that stupid son-of-a-bitch is willing to put your life on the line for something that makes no sence than way the hell don’t you do something?

    • Dan az

      H Smith
      shummer shot a house intruder during the time he had that clock up in time square.Why did he have a gun if they weren’t aloud in NY?

  • IVAN,

    THIS IS JUST ONE OF MANY MORE ATTEMPS TO TAKE OUR RIGHTS TO DEFEND OURSELVES EVENFURTHER, ITS THE (SNOW BALL EFFECT). SO WHEN, THE UP AND COMING BREAKDOWN OF OUR COUNTRY STARTS.LOOTERS,RAPIST ect.. WELL CRIMINALS. DO WHAT THEY DO, WE GET SCREWED BECAUSE WE WONT BE ABLE TO FIGHT BACK, BECAUSE WE WILL GO TO JAIL. FOR DEFENDING OUR FAMILIES. CONSIDERING THAT SOME STATES ALREADY HAVE INLAW, THAT SELFDEFENSE, IS NOT A DEFENSE.
    ITS TIME TO SEE WHATS COMING FULL STEAM AHEAD, THEIR AGENDA NOT THE AMERICAN PEOPLES. THATS WHAT I,SEE
    JUST ONE MANS VIEW.

  • Raggs

    I don’t give a shit… The first M-F-ER that breaks in regardless of if he is government or not will be a dead S>O>B…

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    There was an intresting discussion on CSpan a few months ago. A black State Rep. from Philly was trying to push through some draconian gun laws for Pa. His excuse was the high murder rate in Philly. On the other side of the debate was a spokesman from a gun owner’s group. He stated the following facts:
    1) In the United States 68% of murder victims had a criminal record.
    2) In Philly the rate was 91% of the murder victims had a criminal record.
    3) Where does the problem truly lay ?

    I say get them more ammo. After they get done killing each other we can shoot the survivors.

  • Ron Cox

    Ed Rendell is like every other coward who stands behind their armed guards. They know a society that is armed is a free and independent society that will stand up and fight for the freedoms our fathers gave us. Look at Kennesaw Georgia for example; Kennesaw requires by law that every home owner have a gun in their home. Since this law was passed the crime rate in Kennesaw dropped to almost nothing. The cowardly thugs work in Atlanta and the other surrounding cities around Atlanta. They stay out of Kennesaw.

    • Vicki

      That is because thugs are smarter than the average politician. :) Proof by examining the effectiveness of all gun restrictions.

  • Convicted Felon

    Yes I am a felon for burning trash on my property, and no there was no burn ban or anything like that, I bought property and 5 months later when the weather got good I gathered trash that the previous contract buyer had left on the property, well unknown by me the person that sold me the land had not bothered to evict him so when I burned all the trash and don’t be mistaken it really was trash. So long story short I hear Mister Livingstons post say felon like its a ongoing crime. I thought once you paid your debt to society that it was suppose to be over and you get a fresh start and that is the way I have always conducted business I hired felons feeling all noble and good about giving a hand up to better themselves and now that I am a Felon when I feel and anyone that was at the court felt (except the judge) that it was crazy that I was found guilty and will now never be able to have a firearm and protect my own family, I understand a person who has done terrible things to children or women or murder should be tracked and or remain behind bars but now I understand why a felon continues to commit crimes (they wear a red badge) they are forever made aware they are bad due to nobody and I mean nobody wants to hire Felons and they assume that they are Felons due to something like rape , murder, child molester , when I was found guilty I was in shock but I thought ok 5 years and it will be over (wrong) what is wrong with this? How does a drug user that has gone through rehab and has been clean for years ever get ahead like that? How am I suppose to protect my home and property?

    • Jeff

      Felon,

      I would suggest you begin by reading your state’s statues and confer with a lawyer when you are able to afford one. If there is no recourse, find out what you can use inside your home . . fire ext., sling shot…pepper spray….a bag of baseballs….rocks….

  • CptFreakout

    Has anyone asked them selves, what will they do when we have to use force to protect themselves from the police or military the g20 and g8 have shown that anything goes when its the corporate/state belief that dissention is dangerous for them.
    Look how often the police have “followed orders” on laws that are clearly anti self defence as well or in prosecuting the poor on minor charges or in collecting unreasonable fines fees and costs ,costs that cant be paid by low income so they just get warrants and more costs,a tactic to keep people under the thumb.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      There is an organization known as the Oath Keepers. It remindes military, police, and politicians of the oath they took to defend the Constitution of the United States. The site lays out a pledge for those individuals and some specific examples to follow. Ask every such person to review and sign the pledge. Be wary of those who won’t. I don’t believe the combat arms portion of the military brances will turn against the population but I wouldn’t trust the police in general; diffrent mind-set.

  • Joe in CT

    What planet has the PA Governor been living on? We’re at war, against both those who would simply try to rob us at gunpoint, and those who would scream “infidel” just before they kill us. Get your head out of where the sun don’t shine, Mr. Governor, and join the rest of us without a bodyguard (and me, who suffers from chronic pain in one foot and can run about as fast as mollasses in January).

  • Jeff

    Which party does the present PA Governor owe his allegance toward? He is a member of the Progressive movement and their agenda is to disarm the people so there is very little resistance when the big sting comes. After every legislative session either in state or fed arenas, new laws that make people felonious criminals are conceived. Can’t buy a gun or be in the same house with a gun if you have a felony on your record and it doesn’t matter anymore what the origninal charge of the felong was for. Some state charge people with felonies for throwing snowballs at cars.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Jeff; you are so right about what you said. Here, in Pa., everything you do is attached to your driving license and your ability to own a gun. get 2 DWI’s in your lifetime and you’re a felon and have to turn in your guns. Your ex-wife gets pissed at you she yells abuse, no proof required, she gets a PFA against you, and you lose your guns. Our county sherrif told me this happens over 400 times a year in our county and 90% of them are BS. One guy in our area married a woman who was arrested for trespass at an anti-abortion rally 20 plus years ago. She applied to by a handgun and the past transgression turned up. Not only was she denied the right to own a gun but her husband had to sell his gun collection by law. It’s clear that the state wants your guns one way or another, what ever it takes.

  • James

    Everyone has the right to defend themselves. Pennsylvania is just trying to gain regulatory control over it or talk people out of it. The Pennsylvania Constitution, Section 21 reads: “The right of the Citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the state shall not be questioned.”

  • The ‘AMERICAN’

    The true test of one’s belief to whether a person has the right to defend himself using deadly force is when an adverse situation comes home to them on a very personal basis. What would they instinctively do in that moment? A very good example is the staunch ‘anti-gun congressmen’ who shot someone while they were invading his home. As the saying goes ‘What’s good for the goose, — is good for the gander”

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