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Reid: GOP Should ‘Stop Crying’ Over Possibility Of Reconciliation

March 2, 2010 by  

Reid: GOP should 'stop crying' over possibility of reconciliationAfter losing their filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and other Democratic leaders have acknowledged that they may utilize the controversial parliamentary procedure known as budget reconciliation to pass their version of the healthcare bill.

The tactic would allow Democrats to push through major aspects of the bill with just 51 votes, rather than the 60 that are usually required to overcome a filibuster.

Meanwhile, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.)and other GOP leaders have lashed out at Reid for trying to jam through a piece of legislation that is being heavily resisted by the American people. Republicans are also questioning the timing of Reid’s threat to use the parliamentary procedure on the eve of the bipartisan healthcare summit hosted by President Obama.

"It’s hard for us to quite understand why, with reconciliation being planned, we’re having a meeting which is allegedly designed to engender some bipartisan agreement," said Senater John Kyl (R-Ariz.).

Reid warned the GOP to "stop crying" over the possibility of reconciliation, as it has been used by Republicans many times in the past. He noted that the shortcut has been used 21 times since 1981.
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  • Robin from Arcadia, IN

    Harry Reid and his cronies are not listening to the American people, but they tell the Republicans to ‘stop crying’ about a reconciliation vote. Maybe they should listen to what the American people are saying! Reid is really taking a chance on trying to push this through. He is going to seal the fate of many Democrats this fall.

  • Phil

    This is just another case of whining republicans…I don’t care what the Republicans think and neither should the democrats… Do you think if the situation was reversed the Republicans would care?… And they didn’t care when they were in power….Republican seem to think because they drove this country into an economic disaster that the democrats should listen to them…the republicans are just nutcases anyway…

    • Doc Sarvis

      I agree with that. Of the last 22 time that this sort of reconcilliation was used 16 of them were by the Republican congress.

      • Michael J.

        Doc Sarvis,
        In April of 2009, Democratic Senator Robert Byrd who originated the process of reconciliation had this to say about it.

        “I oppose using the budget reconciliation process to pass health care reform and climate change legislation. Such a proposal would violate the intent and spirit of the budget process, and do serious injury to the Constitutional role of the Senate.

        As one of the authors of the reconciliation process, I can tell you that the ironclad parliamentary procedures it authorizes were never intended for this purpose. Reconciliation was intended to adjust revenue and spending levels in order to reduce deficits. It was not designed to cut taxes. It was not designed to create a new climate and energy regime, and certainly not to restructure the entire health care system”.

        In spite of the fact that the reconciliation process has been utilized more than 20 times since it’s conception in the mid 80′s, it has never been used to inact major policy change and certainly not for policy changes that involve 17 percent of our economy.

        Dirty Harry Reid is willing to march through the flames because he knows a chopping block awaits him in November anyway. Other Democratic members of the Senate may be a bit more reluctant to become Obamakazee and shout the Bonzai charge at the behest of the Emperor.

        If the Democrats proceed as planned, short term gains are likely, however long term failure will be assured.

        • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

          EXACTLY!! As usual, a good post Michael!
          What you have posted, is exactly what the American people need to know, but Heil Harry & the liberal socialists aren’t admitting it to them. They only tell them how many times it was used by repubs. vs. dems. but not what it’s original intention was. Just more smoke and mirrors from the libs……

      • Joe H.

        Doc sarvis,
        yeah that’s the way to look at it two wrongs make a right!!!! why didn’t I think of that!!

        • Doc Sarvis

          Pardon me, but I did not say it was necessarily wrong.

    • Norm

      Amen.

    • George E.

      Phil,

      I can tell that you are completely objective, unbiased and independent on this issue….. Please be careful following any politician or political party too closely. They all make mistakes and are sometimes guided by their interests rather than the interests of the American people.

      Any legislation this important should not be passed without some bipartisan support and a strong majority of Americans in support. This one doesn’t pass that test.

      It’s disgusting to me that Democrats have spent the better part of this year pushing this awful legislation when Americans really wanted them to focus on doing things to help the economy. Now that we’ve essentially wasted a year getting unpopular legislation passed (it seems), it looks highly likely that the Democrats will lose both houses of Congress in the November elections, after which Republicans will spend another year trying to undo this legislation. All that unnecessary effort focused on the wrong thing at the wrong time. If only the Democrats had set up a bipartisan commission in the beginning to craft this legislation and make a recommendation, a bill would have passed that would be acceptable to a majority of Americans. I believe, Democrats would have looked like statesman and rewarded in future elections. They’ve handled this very badly and will likely pay a terrible price for it.

      • GregS

        Amen, George!

        I don’t care how many times reconciliation has been used in the past. NEVER has it been used on such a significant and controversial piece of legislation:

        - The bill is MASSIVE: 2700 pages!!!
        - The vast majority of Americans oppose it in its current form.
        - It is a comprehensive rewrite of one-sixth of the economy!!!

        I repeat (since the liberals insist on repeating its frequency): NEVER has reconciliation been used on such a significant and controversial piece of ligislation!!!

        • Jo Ann

          Warrior:

          Take your blinders off. First the Republicans are doing just what Rush and the memo wrote by a sentor no less to defeat health care and to help make President Obama fail. Now they have been ask to participate the only come with the intent to block all polices to make the president look like a failure then get in the public eye and lie. Hipocrates all of them. You need to dig farther then you are.

          • GregS

            Who is Warrior? And what does that have to do with what I just said?

          • Warrior

            Good Grief!

          • George E.

            Jo Ann,

            The Republicans have never liked this legislation, and had nothing to do with crafting it. Why would you expect them to vote for it? A single meeting with the President to discuss healthcare reform will not be enough to get Republicans to vote for this bill. Nevertheless, the Republicans have NEVER had enough votes in Congress to block this legislation if the Democrats had been able to get their members to vote for it. The bitter truth is, they haven’t been able to convince enough Democrats to vote for it. Democrats in Congress are aware that this legislation is unpopular in their districts and many realize a vote for it will ensure their defeat in the next election. That’s what’s really going on……

            Republicans and radio commentators like Rush may express their opinions on this subject, but the only power they have is through the voice of the American people. It appears they are winning that battle.

          • Claire

            George E—Then why doesn’t Limbaugh run for the Presidency? Obviously he knows everything. He is the head of the Republican party now. So why doesn’t he go for it?

          • George E.

            Claire,

            I don’t think Rush wants to run for office. A lot of people, especially conservatives, give Rush credit for being insightful into political matters, but don’t want or expect him to be a politician. He’s probably better doing what he does now, I think.

          • Joe H.

            Claire,
            I don’t think Rush would take the pay cut!!!! He’s happy right where he is!!!

          • Claire

            Joe H– Let’s see, the President makes $ 400,000.00 per year. Rush probably makes ten times that in one year.

        • GregS

          Oops! That should be spelled as “legislation.”

          • Joe H.

            GregS,
            What these people don’t consider is the Aw Crap system. When you do something right you get an attaboy. the only problem is one Aw Crap voids 30 Attaboys!!!! Since Obummer has yet to do ANYTHING right, he’s working on a major deficit of Attaboys and a very large balance of Aw Craps!!!

        • Phil

          Greg… I’m not suprised you don’t know this But republicans used reconciliation to pass Bushs trillion dollar tax cuts to the top 2%…. that put this country in the economic ditch were in now…

          • George E.

            Phil,

            I believe you are correct. However, I understand that this was allowed because 1) tax cuts was a budgetary issue which was within the original intent of reconciliation, and 2) these tax cuts were set to expire within a few years requiring re-authorization to go forward. The current health care reform bill is a social program, not a budgetary bill, although it definitely has severe budgetary implications for the country, and has no expiration date. I definitely think it is bad policy to push something like this healthcare bill into law without some semblance of bipartisan support and a majority of Americans in support. This bill has neither. Further making this bill offensive to some Americans is the fact that Congress has exempted themselves and their families from this health care program. Apparently, it’s not good enough for them, but it’s great for the rest of us……

          • DaveH

            Are you still going on about those tax cuts, Pill? When 1% of the wage earners pay 40% of the income taxes, a person could hardly call it a “tax cut”. The Government is just stealing less from them.
            Of course, theft is okay in the minds of a liberal as long as they vote for somebody else to do their dirty work.
            You think you are a noble man, but you are just a common thief.

          • GregS

            Phil, a short-term tax-cut is a far cry from a major entitlement that will be irreversible, once it is enacted into law. So, I’ll repeat it again, since you liberals are so into repetition: Reconciliation has NEVER been used on legislation that is so far-reaching, and which will have such a major impact that this health care bill will have on this country!

          • eyeswideopen

            DaveH, top 5% with gross incomes of $153,500 paid almost 60% of all income tax collected. Top 1% having incomes of $388,800 or more, paid almost 40% of collected. Those with incomes of under $32,000 paid less than 3%. Any rational person, can see the real effect of any federal tax on those with incomes under 32K, will be greater than those with incomes making more than $153,500. Interesting that those making $153,500 up to $388,800 paid in 60% of the collected taxes. So the middle class is carrying the nation. So kind of you to keep pointing that out.

      • skipfoss

        Something this important should not be left up to a bunch of money grubbing polititions It should be put out as a reforindom to be voted on by the people

        • Joe H.

          skipfoss,
          don’t know about that. With all those walking dead and the illegals out there it could go bad for us!!!

    • http://blalock2@kc.rr.com HELEN

      TO ALL THE FOREGOING PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE THE REPUBLICANS VIEW POINT OF THIS SO CALLED HEALTHCARE DISASTER, SHOULD STOP AND THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATES HAD JUST AS MUCH TO DO WITH THE FINANCIAL DOWN SPIRAL IN AMERICA AS THE REPUBLICANS.NO ONE IS PERFECT. STOP AND THINK WHAT THIS WILL DO TO ALL YOUR SMALL CHILDREN THAT ARE STILL GROWING UP AND INTO ALL THIS MESS, THAT SUPPOSELY ALL THESE EDUCATED PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE HAVE DONE TO OUR FAMILIES AND CHILDREN. DEMOCRATES AND REPUBLICANS. OUR COUNTRY NEEDS TO GET BACK TO THE BASICS AS TO WHAT OUR FORE FATHERS PUT DOWN. START HELPING AMERICA INSTEAD OF DOWNING HER TO MAKE THEMSELVES LOOK BIG AND POWERFUL. WE ALL SHOULD KNOW WHO IS THE MOST POWERFUL AND ONE DAY HE WILL HAVE THE LAST SAY.

    • M French

      I find your comments very ignorant. Are you a citizen that wants government handouts instead of working for a living? Are you one that expects to be given everything for free? Do you support government take-over of your life? If so, move to Russia.

    • Arkham Grundy

      Republicans would oppose a bill to declare that the sky is blue in good weather if presented by the Democrats. They would produce experts to the contrary, threaten a filibuster, cite a non-existent grass roots movement across America saying that the Dems are not listening to the voice of the American people, and that somehow recognizing that the sky is blue is contrary to the constitution.

      The truth is that the majority of Americans do want health care reform.

      • blackhat

        Huh? Say again? You must live in a cave…

        • Arkham Grundy

          not the organic one where your head is crammed

          • Joe H.

            No you have one big dark dank one all to yourself on the backside of bawney fwanks!!!

          • DaveH

            Isn’t it about time for your rabies shots, Arkham?

          • blackhat

            oh, good come back…think of that all by yourself?

          • Joe H.

            blackhat,
            no Bawney helped him!!!! thyey’re special buddies!!!

      • JeffH

        Reform is what is needed, not another bad government controlled, fraud infested program paid by the taxpayers, which is exactly what you and the rest of these health Care Bill supporters want.

      • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

        Arkum;
        Apparently you didn’t do so well in math class Arkum! Your personal opinion poll of “yourself only” does not jive with the “real opinion polls” that were done on “real Americans”, by “real pollsters” ha ha ha.

        Americans have already rejected ObamaCare.
        A Quinnipiac poll showed Americans disapproved of Obama’s healthcare plan by 54-35 percent. The Rasmussen Poll said 56% opposed it.

        Look it up Arkum.
        Maybe you should look up FACTUAL INFORMATION BEFORE YOU POST. Making claims like that, just detract from all the other wild posts you make here. ie:if you get caught in a lie once, we are just going to assume that ALL YOUR POSTS ARE LIES! GET IT??

        • JeffH

          Stephaan, old Noah’s Ark has studied in the eyeswideshut school of say anything. To have verified the source of a comment, one must first do the research. NOT!

      • George E.

        Arkham,

        If you draft a contract and bring it to me to sign without negotiation, I’ll tell you to take a hike. That’s just about what the Democrats did with this health care bill. They wrote it without input from, or compromise with the Republicans, and now complain that the Republicans won’t vote for it. Face it, the Democrats have mishandled this legislative process.

        • eyeswideopen

          George E. this is what the repubs proposed. Eight items. Too bad they didn’t come up with real problem saving solutions.
          http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

          don’t panic if note comes up saying it can’t be found, after about two minutes, it will appear.

          • L, USA

            “blindeyes”, If the healthcare system, as such, needs help; The Republican adjustments would give doctors and patients freedom of choice. Totally unlike obama-deathcamp-care.

          • L, USA

            “Lying eyes” Your information is deceptive! There are 69, that’s SIXTY-NINE proposed admendments. From HR 77 by Issa R-CA to HR 4505 Thornsberry R-TX. You skew the truth and are BRANDED A LIBERAL!!!

          • eyeswideopen

            L, USA, darling, the repubs have over 150 admendents they have offered on one bill. They just want to control the reform, without actually helping anyone. They presently will only help 3 million vs 36 million the Dems can help. Why can’t you admit that the repubs have never wanted to address healthcare or they would have years ago? They had the power to do so. Probably the same reason they didn’t address immigration either ugh?

          • eyeswideopen

            L, USA, just looking at their web site. Counted 8 items. Where is the rest? That web site was supposed to have everything they wanted addressed. I didn’t create it, they did. Just more of their BS>

          • L, USA

            eyesdempundit, Observe the ‘Right’ stuff baby.. http://tiny.cc/zsc3v

      • DaveH
    • DaveH

      And we don’t care what you think, Pill. You are just a typical ignorant Liberal that in lieu of facts must resort to name-calling and ridicule.

      • eyeswideopen

        DaveH, and calling someone an ignorant liberal is not name calling? Why is it you never call anyone an ignorant right winger? Oh, that’s right you are trying to recruit them to your party, then what will you do, turn on them, because they don’t believe in individual liberties like your Libertarian platform dictates?

      • L, USA

        DaveH, “eyesclosed” is fly in the soup here. Possibly a spy. And for a certian mainstream liberal.

    • Angelica

      This is just another case of whining republicans…I don’t care what the Republicans think and neither should the democrats… Do you think if the situation was reversed the Republicans would care?… And they didn’t care when they were in power….Republican seem to think because they drove this country into an economic disaster that the democrats should listen to them…the republicans are just nutcases anyway……………

      PHIL……..I don’t think you fully grasp the issue here. It’s not just the REPUBLICAN party that this congress is “NOT LISTENING” too….
      It’s the people. The people who pay their salaries, the men and women who have fought and died to give them a seat at the table. There isn’t an issue on the table that isn’t politically motivated.
      This congress and the administration as a whole are not the least bit concerned for the people. They don’t care about your health unless it’s in the form of how they can make money off of it or exert control over you. They don’t care about the environment. It’s all about POWER and how they can get over on the American people. It’s a power grab.
      Did you really vote for Obama to be his slave and the slave of the government?

      • George E.

        Angelica,

        I appreciate your independent thinking. I don’t know whether the Republicans would have given Democrats the same consideration on health care that they are asking for, if the situation were reversed. However, if they didn’t, they would be making a big mistake as well. The Democrats have mishandled this bill terribly because they haven’t gotten any bipartisan support or even convinced a majority of Americans that this is a good bill. Further, the Democrats refuse to include themselves (politicians) in this bill, while the Republicans have agreed to be included. Finally, the special deals that Democratic lawmakers have made with some states and organizations (especially the unions) make this legislation look an awfully lot like if you’re not part of their “in-crowd” you don’t get the same benefits that they get, even though you’re going to pay more for it.

        Also, please keep in mind that a lot of people are responsible for the current economic mess, not just Republicans. The root cause, in my opinion, is debt. There is too much debt all around, and in all sectors, both public and private. Government, businesses, individuals, and others borrowed like the good times would never end, then they did, and all came crashing down on us. Now we’ve got all this debt and fewer sources of income to pay it off, so it hurts much more. The Federal Reserve Bank left interest rates too low for too long, and this just made the situation worse. Government officials and community organizers put pressure on banks and lending institutions to lower standards and loan money to people who had a high probability of not being able to pay it back. The list goes on and on. It seems everyone, including Republicans and Democrats, were involved in this debacle.

        • eyeswideopen

          George E. are you aware that every President except for Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. have reduced the general gov debt?
          http://zfacts.com/p/480.html

          • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

            Eyes wide shut;
            Yeah eyes, and are YOU AWARE that slick willie Clinton did it by STEALING money from the social security trust fund, and this money was not, and never will be, paid back?
            It is/was all smoke and mirrors. It is the same as kiting checks!
            Do you thinking “cooking the books” on a government level is OK?
            Hint: the IRS won’t let YOU do it!

  • ROSINA

    I am certain that I am NOT the only one sick to death of these so-called democrats stuffing down our throats an unwanted and unnecessary “ruin health bill” And REID the marxist has the unmitigated gall to say stop crying about it?
    This government has become so awful, pandering to crooks like Acorn, Unions , forcing bills on the people who only wanted ‘change’ not a wholesale destruction of their liberties and rights.
    The triumvirate of Obama/Pelousy/reid are unbearable.
    We must oust them.
    One question? Can this awful bill, if pushed through be rescinded in a later Congress? or has it been so tied up it can never change? I am not certain about some Senate point that was added to it.

    • Harold Olsen

      I believe that legally it can. However, I don’t believe the Republicans have the courage to oppose the Democrats or their Nazi leader. They’ve become a party of wimps and cowards. Pathetic! I’d love them to prove me wrong.

      • M French

        The Republican Party needs to rid itself of the far right zealots, and become more moderate. The same needs to happen in the Democratic Party. it’s the far right and far left zealots in both parties, that are causing this mess. We have to throw these candidates out.

        • JeffH

          First an foremost, it is the “people” that have caused this mess! Yes, politicians have become selfish,money grubbing, power hugry, hard of hearing, blind and ignorant to the constitution and the needs of America as a nation. We the people (in general) have allowed them to become what they are. It is our time to correct our wrongs and set this country back on track.
          Harry “WHO”! Needs to shut his pie hole up. His career is over, unless Obummer makes him the Health Insurance Czar.
          Screw this administration and their ideaologies, which ultimately is bankrupting this once great nation. And, screw all of you liberal whackos, who’s intent is to redistribute the wealth of everyone but your own and force a change away from a free America.
          I will continue to run my life as I see fit, and I won’t have you or any other lunatic telling me otherwise.
          Kepp some powder dry…lock and load!
          God bless every American patriot!

        • blackhat

          Listen, French, “moderate” Reps have destroyed this country. You sound like a Dem that’s trying to be consiliatory. As Regan said, “…no pastels, just bold colors.” There is a difference between a moderate and a conservative.

        • DaveH

          Actually, French, they have done that for the last 40 or so years. That’s why Government just keeps growing, because very few of the politicians have the spine to cut back government size.

        • Joe H.

          French,
          It’s the “moderates” that have got us into this mess. republicans that aren’t conservatives and dems that are socialists!!!

        • Barb

          Sorry but moderation is OUT! Riding the fence id OUT! Conservative to the max is the only way we get back to what made this country and what made it great! Don’t like it? Too bad!

          • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

            Right On Barb, There is no time for fence sitting , gray areas, or mealy mouthed moderates! Moderates are only in the middle because they can’t figure out where the hell they are, or make any decisions! It’s time to put the pedal to the metal, and let it roll!!

      • Arkham Grundy

        Calling Obama a Nazi is as ludicrous as other extreme right wing nit wits calling him a Marxist. Nazis are the ultimate RIGHT wing.

        I suspect that if you want to find a real Nazi you need go no further than the nearest mirror.

        • Paine’s GHOST

          reply to ARKHAM,

          Your attack against those who call OBAMA a NAZI is ludicrous. If you had studied history, particularly with regard to Germany before WWII, you will see an uncanny set of parallel situations and events. If you had the honesty to read the history and take from it the FACTS about who did what and WHY they did it when, you would see that OBAMA is actually more dangerous than the prototypical NAZI. Obama and his cronies have completely TOSSED THE CONSTITUTION out and replaced it with a socialist manifesto driven by corruption and licentiousness. The new SAFE SCHOOLS CZAR is a KNOWN ACTIVIST PEDOPHILE. The curricula that are being advanced by these people revise history and make our founders out to be letchers and goons. They destroy any confidence our people have in THEMSELVES and they try to make ALL of us dependent upon the government for our very lives. They impose ruinous taxes on productive enterprise while giving untols billions to organizations that publicly WANT TO SEE US IN RUINS.

          ARKHAM, this is NOT a battle between “liberals” and “conservatives” but is rather a battle to on the one hand DESTROY everything that America is and has been, and on the other hand to resurrect the founding principles and enlighten the public enough to reclaim our CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC. It is very important to remember that AMERICA has always been a REPUBLIC, NOT A DEMOCRACY. Read your history. What O and his have in mind for the rest of us is NOT a happy, secure and prosperous AMERICA, but a broken and beaten nation with THEM in complete control.

          • blackhat

            Ghost, you really should not throw “facts” at these liberals. They tend to ignore them, or tend to scew them.

        • Evelyn

          “Nazis are the ultimate RIGHT wing.” That is what is ridiculous.

          “NAZI” is an acronym in German that means National SOCIALIST Party. Socialism is on the left side of the political spectrum, so therefore Nazis are the ultimate LEFT wing.

          Perhaps you should learn actual history and not what the liberals have been teaching you.

        • JeffH

          Ark Baby,this is just for you.
          ” Barack Obama has a thing for Marxists. He befriends them, listens to their counsel, and he even hires them to work in his campaign. And they seem to feel the warmth. President Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua, who led a revolution there in 1979, says Barack Obama’s presidential bid is a “revolutionary” phenomenon, and Americans are “laying the foundations for a revolutionary change.”
          http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/another_obama_marxist.html

          • JeffH

            Ark, another for you.

            Obama’s Ideological Father: “Gramsci… organized the Italian Communist party in 1921…. Since this was four years after the Russian Revolution, Gramsci assumed Italians would welcome a Bolshevik convulsion of their own. But it didn’t happen…. He found three explanations: Christianity, nationalism and charity. …the way to set the stage for a Marxist revolution was in coming to grips with these three conditions….
            http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/marx-gramsci.htm

          • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

            Ok,Ok, LOL.. all good posts completely battering, bruising, and stompimg Arkum Grundy beyond which even his mother would not recognize him anymore.
            Now could we move on to “Amy the socialist” below? The sight of Arkum laying mangled and distorted in a pool of blood, is just too much for me to bear ha ha ha ha ;-)

        • DaveH

          When you look in that mirror, do you see the thief that you are Arkham?

          • eyeswideopen

            look who’s talking….lamo

        • imu

          why is it that with all the retort’ I find that quite a few of you lack not only knowledge but basic spelling.

        • imu

          do you know what national socialism is?

  • amy

    Republicans think all they have to do is repeat, repeat, repeat and whatever they lie, repeating it on camera makes it so. Unfortunately there are alot of lazy people out there that will turn on Fox Noise and believe everything they say. Like…the term “nuclear option” is being used as a euphemism for reconciliation. They are completely different things. Maybe the folks at Fox should learn to use Google.

    • George E.

      Disgusting, isn’t it? I have to tell you honestly, however, Republicans really aren’t very skilled at this sort of PR. They’ve learned everything they know from the Democrats who are the real professionals at “smoke and mirror” propaganda.

    • blackhat

      Ohhh…then I suppose that every lie the prez has told should not be repeated either. That would only be fair, right?

    • JeffH

      amy, I guess you have it in your mind that anyone that doesn’t agree with Obama and his cronies and anyone that repeats his lies are Republicans.
      Hello! Wake up! If you look hard enough you’ll find a very politically diverse group of people that don’t agree with you.

  • Norm

    Maybe if the Republicans would do their jobs and negotiate and contribute to a viable bill, reconciliation would not be necessary. Instead, they prefer to try and destroy Obama’s credibility and defame him in every way possible. Everyone, including the GOP, agrees that the present healthcare systems is a disaster. Even Mitt Romney passed a similar bill as governor of Mass. The American people favor healthcare reform, but have some reservations about this bill. Much of this is fanned by hate radio, fix news, and insincere politicians trying to feather their own nest.

    • GregS

      Norm, and all of your liberal/progressive friends should stop whining about Republicans not contributing. The fact is that ALL Republican amendments and suggestions have been flatly rejected by the Democrats!

      • Arkham Grundy

        Nonsense.

      • Joe H.

        Greg S,
        We may have one less progressive libbie to worry about in the very near future. Charlie Rangle took a leave of absence and if the repubs have any power at all it will be permanently!!!!

        • Claire

          Joe H–It should not be up to the Dems or the Repubs. He should be AUTOMATICALLY thrown out of office for committing this criminal act. It should be a LAW that when any ELECTED official in government commits income tax evasion they are immedialetely dismissed and tried/fined accordingly. After all, the American public has to pay their taxes and they certainly get punished if they don’t.

          • Joe H.

            Claire,
            according to the news, if he takes a leave by the rules he has to step down from the top seat of the committee!! I hope and ferverently pray it works out that way!!!

          • Claire

            Joe H–This situation is disgusting. I cannot understand what some of these politicians are thinking!! What do they have for brains? To be so brazen and act like they can get by with anything. He should be out of office by tomorrow morning as far as I am concerned. In fact, he should be gone right now.

      • eyeswideopen

        Greg, how many items do you think the repubs recommended? Have you looked at the site gop.gov/solutions/healthcare ? They aren’t offering very much. Don’t want to make big insurance corporations mad at them.

        • GregS

          Eyes, have YOU looked at http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare? The solutions that the Republicans have to offer are quite sensible, and the fact still remains, they DID offer solutions, without cutting Medicare, or causing huge tax increases. Regardless of whether you think it was a lot or a little, those solutions were flatly rejected by the the Democrats! Talk about “the party of NO!”

          • eyeswideopen

            Greg, for goodness sakes, dude, they want to cut the rules that don’t allow the govern to negotiate for cheaper phamacuticals for the medicare. How do you not get that? The repubs worked some sweet deals for the Big Pharma group, that need to be cut. No benefits will be cut. Fear mongering.

          • GregS

            Eyes, benefits WILL be cut. Embedded within the Senate version of the bill is a provision, which penalizes any Medicare physicians who are in the top 10% of costs for treatment of their patients for any given year. They will lose 5% of their total Medicare reimbursements for that year. By definition, there will ALWAYS be a top 10%, no matter how far down the total amount of money spent on Medicare is driven. Therefore, physicians will order fewer and less effective tests and treatments for their patients, for fear that they will be caught in the upper 10%. Here is a link, which describes this:

            http://www.nrlc.org/healthcarerationing/DeathSpiralRationing.html

            Jon Kyl (R-AZ) offered an ammendment to eliminate this provision, but the Democrats rejected it!

    • Michael J.

      Norm,
      It’s a little tough negotiating through a closed door, don’t you think?
      And by the way, ever wonder exactly what goes on behind those closed doors? Dirty Harry and Nasty Pelosi must be quite the party animals, coming from the left coast anything goes persuasion.

      And sure all Americans want HCR, just as long as it doesn’t include deficit busting government control.

      • blackhat

        Michael, that would explain pelosi’s $1000 per week booze bill that the tax payer has been footing.

        • Joe H.

          blackhat,
          Norm, amy and of course ark ham forget one very large fact and that is these people work for US!!! The majority of the people have said that they are in favor of starting over from scratch!!! THAT is what these politicos should be paying attention to!!!!

          • GregS

            Amen, Joe!

    • George E.

      Norm,

      Maybe it would help to look at it this way, if someone wrote a contract without your input, brought it to you and said “take it or leave it,” would you sign it? I think that’s pretty much the position Republicans find themselves in with regard to this legislation. I believe Republicans really would like to participate in crafting legislation to help bring down costs of health care and help the truly needy, but they’ve been shut out of the process, except for the 1 day meeting with the President last week. Surely, you can understand why they don’t want to sign on to this legislation as it now stands. Can’t you?

      • eyeswideopen

        George, I don’t know where you have been, but I watched many, many meetings with the repubs in attendance on CSPAN. Every suggestion that came up, they refused to even consider. The meetings were also, on the Senate and House cable stations. Check the facts.

    • Joe H.

      Norm,
      Gee, what to do about those pesky dems that have held out against Obummer. you know, the blue dogs????

    • DaveH
  • Michelle

    Any bill should be passed only by the laws set forth in our constitution, no matter what party is pushing for the legislation. If the bill cannot be passed in that manner then it should be DOA. Health care reform is needed, but not a government take over of our health choices and freedoms. If you read the bills you will understand the concerns, especially if you want to maintain the basic freedoms our founding fathers established for us.

    • blackhat

      Here is the problem Michelle. None of these laws would be constitutionally legal to a strict interpretation. NO WHERE in our greatest document will find that the federal govt has the right to take from some to “give” to another. Strictly speaking any tax dollars spent at the federal level must (by the constitution) be beneficial equally to all. However, over our history sometimes in the courts, or sometimes without any mandate, laws and programs have been instituted that would never pass a strict interpretation. So, do not expect that there will be any real “constitionality test” of this, or any other bill.

      • blackhat

        wow, did I chew that up…I meant “will you find” and “beneficially equal”

    • DaveH

      The only real workable Heathcare Reform:
      http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=279

      • Joe H.

        DaveH,
        I disagree with two parts. The part of doing away with licencing for Dr,s. We have quacks now. Do away with licences and the quacks will crawl out of the walls!!
        I also disagree with no services for the infirm. The mentally handicapped like downs syndrome and spina bifida and the likes are sometimes a direct result of the environment of their parents and are not always caught in pre-natal care. They are born through no cause of their own and since that is the fact then I think they deserve some benefit!

        • eyeswideopen

          My Goodness, JoeH, you must be a liberal, since you have compassion for the people with disabilities. They will run you right off this site for that. Ask Bob, if you can erase you comments. God Bless you for your compassion. I also would want a MD who has a license.

        • Claire

          Joe H– I agree with you on what you say. There is a time when help is needed, and this is one of them.

  • Norm
    • DaveH

      Gee, let’s see, Buffet is a stock picker. Healthcare Insurance Stocks and Pharmaceutical Stocks will go up with the Healthcare Bill. There wouldn’t be a little vested interest here, would there?

      And isn’t it funny that the rank and file Liberals dislike the rich and Big Business, except when they need them to make a point?

  • Raggs

    I’ll be glad when November gets here!

    • Norm

      Raggs
      Yes by then you will probably have a so-so health reform law in place. You can thank your obstructionist friends for that. Funny, I didn’t hear any of the naysayers critical of their own very expensive taxpayer financed healthcare plan.

      • Joe H.

        Norm,
        YUP all those obstructionists like the BLUE DOG DEMS!!!!

      • Claire

        Norm–It is a so-so bill and should never be passed. Why do it at all if it cannot be a “good” bill? Why even bother–it is a waste of time and we are paying them for screwing around. Literally. This tells me that the Obama Administration does not “care enough to do the very best!” It should be dropped now. Concentrate on the economy and jobs, for God’s sake.

  • OtherTim

    Even Sen Byrd who initiated the reconciliation process so many years ago, said to use it for this enormous bill is NOT a good idea. It was not intended for passage of bills with this impact on the economy.
    Where’s the $ coming from? There’s not enough “rich” people in the country to support yet another entitlement.
    No one is turned away from the hospital now, that’s why a everything in a hosp. and Dr. office costs so much. Other patients and ins cos. pays for those who can’t.
    Don’t turn the entire system upside down.

    • Joe H.

      Other Tim,
      We may be in trouble. the AP reported that nine of the dems that originally voted no might change their vote to yes. The partisan actions of this congress is appalling and it is shoving a bill that the American people don’t support or want down their throats!!!

    • DaveH

      So true Tim. First the Liberals create a crisis by forcing hospitals to accept all comers, then after the costs skyrocket, the Liberals propose even more government to solve the problem created by government. What a colossal scam!
      And their rank and file follow blindly. Baa-a-a, Baa-a-a.

  • http://comcast Don

    Reality check here,Reconciliation was set up for Budget,not this sort of legislation,reality check number when when our great country goes bankrupt,due to its far left liberal policys of government entitlements,then we can all reflect back on what went wrong.Our constitutional rights are being taken away daily,which is why this country was founded by those who lived under tyranny,and constitution written by those. The administration in power is trying to take control of every aspect of our nation and has further plans to control the people of our nation. Look who has been placed in key positions of this administration.Americans keep forgetting to ask themselves,why do people keep immigrating to America,and why do people come here for health care From countrys with government run healthcare……let the insurance companys compete is the best reform and stop the frivilous lawsuits………………

  • dennis

    When are our die hard democrats and liberals, going to understand that with this president, it isn’t about healh care, he doesn’t give a hoot about you and your health – it’s all about the take over of our country, banks, car companies, energy, and now health care. They are ringing up our debt so they can declare a national emergency and take over our monetary system too. Then my friends we will have Hugo Chavez running our country. Think twice before you go along with everything this government tells you..I am an Independent and plan on staying that way…God Help our country !!!!!!!!

    • George E.

      According to at least one recent poll, about 50% of Democrats think socialism is an acceptable form of government. This is very sad for our country. Just goes to show that the last 100 years of liberal/progressive influence in our public schools has slowly twisted the thinking of normal Americans into thinking socialism is better than capitalism. With unsustainable public debt and our “leaders” employing socialism to fix our problems, we’re really in a heap of trouble.

      • Harold Olsen

        They, at least most of them, also think that socialism is the same thing as democracy.

        • George E.

          I guess socialism and democracy can overlap so long as they can get people to vote for socialism.

          • George E.

            That’s what’s wrong with democracy. A majority can vote for anything. We’re supposed to be a constitutional republic so this shouldn’t happen, but look where we are today after years of incremental changes to our system.

          • Joe H.

            George,
            what’s the problem with that? should a small minority be able to to pass something that’s going to cost the majority for the rest of their life??? The lazy non producers that could work but choose not to would soon be making more that you do working 40 to 60 hrs a week!!!

          • Joe H.

            George,
            what’s the problem with that? should a small minority be able to to pass something that’s going to cost the majority for the rest of their life??? The lazy non producers that could work but choose not to would soon be making more that you do working 40 to 60 hrs a week!!!

          • George E.

            Joe,

            I think you may have misinterpreted my post. No, a small minority shouldn’t be able to impose its will on the majority. I agree with you last statement.

            This video may help explain what I’m trying to say about democracies. If you’re still confused, let me know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNVdeYlJPH8&feature=related

          • libertytrain

            George E. excellent video -

          • George E.

            LibertyTrain,

            Thanks again.

          • Joe H.

            George E,
            Having trouble with a new computer and can’t bring up youtube!!!

  • Sonny M

    Illegal aliens is one of the reasons health care cost has excalated over the years, the government said emergency rooms can’t turn them away because they don’t have insurance. Sound familiar, bankers were forced to make loans to people they knew who didn’t have the resources to pay their notes, again government was involved in that because of organizations like ACORN, LULAC, ACLU lobbyist. Now the government is trying to take over health care and run it like the Post Office, I just know that will work out fine. If government had the guts to stand up to these organizations we wouldn’t have 12 million illegal aliens taking jobs away from American citizens, we wouldn’t have illegal aliens going to the emergency room with a headache. Everything you can name that is wrong with our economy you can lay at our governments feet. Do you really want a socialist system of government? I don’t think you do. If our liberal socialist Representatives would quit being bought off by these liberal organizations we wouldn’t be in the fix were in. Remember Obama was big in ACORN.

  • Hey

    Phil, go smoke some more.

  • Harold Olsen

    Didn’t this scumbag, a couple of weeks ago, claim that NO ONE is talking about using reconciliation? I suppose he isn’t talking about it now. Nevada, dump this idiot, PLEASE!!!

  • Warrior

    It appears so many of you don’t understand the relationship here. Democrats DO NOT want any participation from Republicans, PERIOD!!! The summit was for show and nothing was accomplished. The dems want another entitlement and they want to get their hands on all the funds that are spent on healthcare in this country each year. TAKE OFF YOUR BLINDERS. This is about power and control.

  • Doc Sarvis

    As an Independent I see this health care plan as a huge benefit to many folks who need health care and could not get it, whether because of affordability or being refused by insurance companies.

    • JeffH

      …even at the ultimate cost of bankrupting America? Who’s gonna pay for this? This bill, if it is passed, will never become law! It will be challenged in the courts and ultimately defeated.

      • blackhat

        Jeff I have a bad feeling that this bill will become law, and sooner rather than later. While I agree that there are many reasons the supreme court could cut it off at the knees, I certainly would rather that this bill would die an inglorious death.

        • JeffH

          blackhat, I couldn’t agree more. I hope that this bill dies a quiet death, and I hope that common sense prevails. Fortunately, it is such a hideous piece of legislation that many Dems don’t like it. Will that be enough to defeat the lunatics embracing it? Time will only tell. Either way, the Democrats have signed there political death warrants. Can we find and vote in real ” constitutionalists”?
          That will be in our hands.

      • Norm

        JeffH
        Wellcare Insurance just raised their rates by 39% in one year at a time when inflation is near 0!!! The CEO makes over 10 million dollars a year. What a great system – why screw it up.

        • Michael J.

          Norm,
          Are you then suggesting we jump from the frying pan into the fire?
          Obamacare will cost more plus big brother will be breathing down your neck so hard, you’ll likely become pregnant.

        • JeffH

          Norm, what does that have to do with this Heath Care Bill the Dems and Obama want to force feed most of us? Nothing at all.
          Your point?…Does Wellcare control the health care market?
          Not to my knowledge!

        • DaveH

          Don’t buy their Insurance Norm. Is somebody putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it? Get it straight. That is the role the Democrats want to play – forcing people to buy something they don’t want.
          You Liberals are incredible. Your powers of rationalization are only exceeded by your lust for OPM.

        • Claire

          Norm–the insurance companies are busy raising their rates BEFORE the health reform gets passed, if it gets passed. Therefore, it has backfired already. And I do not think it should be passed at this time. I have a huge problem with this so-called bill that is going to “help” people get insurances. I have a huge problem with the abortion stance. Who is the liar concerning the abortion issue?? Stupak says it is included, Pelosi says it is not. Who do we believe? Right now, I don’t think I believe Pelosi. I do not believe in murder and this is what abortion is as far as I am concerned, but there are certain factors regarding abortion that are important. For example, the health of the mother (if the mother could die carrying the baby) and baby while it is still in the womb. A person should not take the life of a baby just because it cramps their lifestyle. I could go on and on about this. Sure, everybody makes their own decisions about how they conduct their lives, but I want no part in the killing of innocent babies. And I do no believe our government should promote this aspect in this bill.
          Regarding Pelosi, she wants things her way and she is not going to change. She is running our government and I cannot abide by her choices and I will not support her. I saw her on TV yesterday claiming abortion was not in this bill. Somehow, I think she is lying.
          I keep thinking what my Mother used to say– “You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

          • GregS

            Well said, Claire! However, I don’t just THINK she’s lying: I KNOW she’s lying. The very fact that she’s against having language included, which explicitly excludes federal funds from being used for abortions, PROVES she’s lying. And when she goes on about already having restrictions against federal funding of abortions, she’s of course referring to the Hyde Amendment, but that only covers the CURRENT annual appropriations to HHS. It does NOT cover any new programs that would be created in the healthcare bill. The language in that bill would actually overturn the Hyde Amendment, if the bill is passed. This is what the entire abortion establishment (e.g. NOW, NARAL, Planned Parenthood, etc.) has been hoping for. It’s their dirty little secret.

          • GregS

            Claire, if you are still reading these threads, here’s a link that gives complete information about abortion funding in the Senate version of the healthcare bill:

            http://www.nrlc.org/News_and_Views/March10/nv030510part3.html

          • Claire

            GregS–Yes, I know you are right. She is lying. And I abhor the fact that she is calling the shots. And the organizations you named are not trustworthy. None of them are, including ACLU, SEIU etc. This just shows us what our government thinks–they think the majority of the American people are dumber than a box of rocks and we will fall for their lies hook, line, and sinker. The politicians are in for a rude awakening. The politicians will get their “rewards for jobs well done” this November and in 2012. We, as Americans, must fulfill “our job” by voting them out. Change? Yes, change is what will happen. And I hope and pray this “change” will be for the best.
            I will look up the link you have provided. Thank you for your courtesy.

    • George E.

      Doc,

      At the risk of be factious, I’ll bet there are a lot of folks in Haiti or Mexico that need health care as well. Why don’t we just cover them also? The answer becomes clearer when you think of it this way. We just can’t afford to give free, first class health care to everyone who either can’t afford it or don’t want to buy it, US citizen or not. We’ve got to start putting our financial house in order, or programs like Social Security and Medicare will go bust and no one will get the services already promised.

    • DaveH

      Of course you do, Doc. It would be a huge benefit for the Zimbabweans if we gave them free care too. The problem is that somebody else has to pay for that free care. You have no right to take the money from others to be spent on your pet charities. It is just plain theft. You Liberals would be the first to whine about the slavery of the past, yet you put your blinders on and try to enslave people currently.
      Somehow you think that when you vote to have the Politicians do your dirty work it is a noble pursuit. You are just thieves, nothing more.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Practically everyone pays and practically everyone is then covered by insurance. Seems about right. And, by the way, when did this conversation warp to insuring the world population?

        • blackhat

          Not true…Only higher wage earners pay taxes currently, and that will continue to be the case. So, lower income families will receive “free health care” provided by the higher earners. Absolutely not fair. At least, it’s not fair in a “free society”…you know, like America once was.

          • Doc Sarvis

            That sir, is why I used the term “pracically”. I am glad we are looking after those few who are not yet able to pay their way so that they can get care that they need.

          • Doc Sarvis

            Sorry for the typo. I meant “practically”.

          • Joe H.

            blackhat,
            Ole’ Doc Sarvis is probably one of the ones that will benefit from you and I paying taxes into this to cover “practically” everybody!!!

          • Doc Sarvis

            Believe me, I am paying, as a proud American, my share.

        • eyeswideopen

          Doc, it is normal here, they spin out of control and blame the Dem’s for the worlds problems. They can’t admit that most countries have social programs. When I suggest killing Medicare, they squeal like pigs. They want their Medicare, but don’t want anyone else to have what they are receiving, even if others are willing to pay for it. You will also notice that they all sound like the John Birch Society nutcases of the 60′s. They repeat the same mantras. But it really isn’t to suprising as the Koch family funds the Cato Inst, Americans for Prosperity, Heritage Foundation plus many, many more. The Koch’s family’s, father, Fred, helped start the John Birch Society, and was a Libertarian VP. Fear tactic was one that they have used since the 60′s.

          • Doc Sarvis

            Very interesting and it makes sense.

          • eyeswideopen

            Doc, forgot to tell you, they also think that all business’ are owned by the Dem’s, but that only the repubs pay taxes. All teachers are liberals and believe that vouchers is the way to get your child a better education. They also believe that the richest are Dem’s even after you can show them that families like the Koch’s make over 90billion a year and they are Libertarians. They don’t know the difference between socialism, marxism, communism, totalitarianism,fascism, they just lump them altogether and call Obama all of them. Hope you stay on site, as intelligence and logic is refreshing and needed.

          • Doc Sarvis

            I’m here to help all those who blindly buy into what the over funded conservatives are trying to scare America with.

          • L, USA

            Poor Doc Soros will never cure eyespundit’s blindness with the smokescreen they fume. eyesdempundit, Observe the ‘Right’ stuff baby.. http://tiny.cc/zsc3v

  • lou

    its all about taxes and keep there nose above water and nothing
    about good health care like maybe the phrase robbing peter to pay
    paul to promote big goverment.

  • eddie47d

    There was a bipartisan effort with Sen. Grassley and others,but the republicans threatened him if he endorsed any of the democrates issues. (You support the bill and we vote you out). Nice! 75% of all Americans support changes in our healthcare system. Yup,both parties,the devil is in the details. We need more statesmanship once these points are worked out. If it’s a good plan and the vote is close then reconciliation should be used. Who cares how many pages the healthcare plan has;all legal documents in America are book size anymore. Not all republican admendments have been rejected (esp.pre-existing conditions which is supported by both sides). To Don;Hundreds of Americans go to foreign countries to get healthcare also,(it’s less expensive and just as good).

    • GregS

      Eddie, your vague statements clearly show what the liberals do to cover up the facts:

      1. “75% of all Americans support changes in our healthcare system.”

      - Even though most Americans support changes, most polls show that the vast majority do NOT support the current form of the healthcare bill in Congress.

      2. “If it’s a good plan and the vote is close then reconciliation should be used.”

      - Reconciliation was NEVER intended to be (and NEVER has been) used on such a significant and controversial piece of legislation, regardless of how “close” the vote was, or how “good” the bill was.

      3. “Who cares how many pages the healthcare plan has;all legal documents in America are book size anymore.”

      - “All legal documents in America [being] book size anymore” does NOT justify ramming the bill through Congress and cramming it down everyone’s throat. As I said previously, the vast majority of Americans stongly oppose this bill in its current form, as indicated by most of the recent polls.

      • JeffH

        GregS, you spoiled someones soup!

    • Joe H.

      eddie,
      If the health care is just as good in other countries then when their lives depend on it why do all of them come here??? I suppose you are one of those that believe health care is just as good in CUBA?!?!?!?

  • Tea Bagger Tim

    There are several objections to this legislation.

    The primary objection is that our government can not afford to provide for the public what the public should provide for itself.

    Another objection is that the road to spiraling health care cost was paved by government intervention through Medicare, medicade and an unchecked litigation process. The current legislation being purposed will not produce a different result, but rather lead to further cost increases.

    The root of the health care issue is actually beyond the objections and may be difficult for many to accept. The fact is that health insurance should have never evolved to the point of covering every nuisance of health care.

    For example, we do not expect our home owners insurance to pay to have our house painted, nor do we expect it replace the roof unless it is damaged by a catastrophic event. We also do not expect our automotive insurance to fix the transmission in our cars. These examples can be quite costly. Yet we expect our health insurance to pay hundreds of dollars a year for our medication, when there are changes that we can make in our lifestyle that will eliminate the need for mediation. We would be much better suited to adopt those changes rather than expect to be rewarded with health care that at best can only prolong the problem.

    In the Great American experiment, if nothing else, we have learned that freedom is never free. The obvious conclusion is that we can not expect that we would or should receive any benefit without providing the means to pay for it. We must adopt individual responsibility, which can not be legislated and corporate charity, which can not be shackled by the bonds of law.

    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln

    “You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” Abraham Lincoln

  • eddie47d

    Harold Olsen:9:11 am.,You are a coward for calling Obama a Nazi. The more you use this dispicable name calling the less respect we have for your opinions. The neo-nazi party of America uses your terminology all the time,so where do you stand?

    • JeffH

      Zig heil to you Mr. Gestapo!

    • blackhat

      Unt ein bier unt pomme frits!

      • blackhat

        ohhh…mit bratz!

      • Joe H.

        blackhat,
        Und mit mayonaise!!! yah!!Vunderbar!!!!

    • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

      WRONG AGAIN EDDIE47

      NAZI was Hitlers Deutsch speak for “National Socialist Party”
      Nazis’ were socialists
      Socialist are leftists!
      Obama is a socialist, and a leftist by common political definition, so therefore calling him a NAZI is also correct! Trust me, I know this. I am Deutsch and have studied Germany almost as much as American history.
      Try picking up a book now and then Eddie, and don’t just look at the pictures.
      Da Sie über ihr richtig sind, fallen Sie bitte ein felsen auf Eddie47 gehen und erwecken durch sie? Ich denke, dass sie lol schlä
      Would someone above eddie please drop a rock on his head and wake him up…. ;-)

      • Claire

        Stephaan–Be nice.

        • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

          Claire;
          You are the voice of reason on here and we all admire you for it, but I thought dropping a rock “was being nice” compared to what I really wanted to say. lol
          What I wanted to say was, hey you ignorant half wit, pick up a history book, and try reading it, and when you’re done shove it up your and furthermore get a political education before you post yourfalse facts, and bulland then maybe you could pull your head out of your
          You see Claire? I’ll bet they just censor the heck outta that post. ;-)

          • Claire

            Stephaan–Okay. You guys can argue your own battles. I have enough here at home but at least my husband isn’t crabby this morning! I have already told him not to watch any news today!! lol Gosh, the politicians should give health reform a rest! Anyone with half a brain knows issues like this should not be “rushed” through without a serious, rational, and logicical approach. Have a great day!

          • Claire

            Whoops!! “logical” Hey-it is early! lol

          • eyeswideopen

            Claire, how many years do you think we should debate the reform? It has been discussed for a year now. Do you think we should wait until it is bankrupt and the economy in shambles (worse than now) before we attempt to fix it? Just wondering, as you are pretty fair and logical.

          • Claire

            Eyes– I thought to myself that the very first minute they started working on health reform, it was going to be chaotic. We have two parties in office that will not work together. Both parties want their pork and they have to protect their campaign donors which are the insurance companies, etc. Sadly, nothing with any merit will be accomplished. The Dems are in a hurry to have “something” to brag about, and the Repubs want nothing but failure for the Dems. For example, Limbaugh has publicly stated that he wants the Obama administration to fail. Consequently the Repubs want the same thing. Olbermann and Maddow are for the left. They badmouth the Repubs. The media has played a shoddy role within the past few years. It is a never-ending saga of hate. These political parties are not considering the good of America. They are only thinking about being re-elected, making the other party look like crap, and pulling every stunt in the book to destroy each other. I have lost respect for both parties. The past 2-3 years have really been a lesson in decency, morals and ethics. I really think this situation is a classic example of “believing half of what a person sees and none that they hear.” We have to find the true facts ourselves. As for me, I will try to gain all the knowledge I can on my own and make the decision to vote for the best person I can find, providing they run for office. I will no longer be tied to any party.

          • Claire

            Eyes–I will add that the economy and jobs should be first and foremost on the agenda. If jobs are created then maybe people can buy their insurance. Health reform can be debated later, because I don’t think a good health reform bill will ever happen.

  • jim

    When Dems wanted to hold up legislation they didn’t like, they would drag their feet and hold it up and try to obstruct it.(sound familiar).To get it passed ( for example a Judicial nomonee) the Reps. would threaten to use reconciliation. Then senators Obama and Biden at that time were dead set against it. Now it’s Reps. standing against proposed legislation and Dems proposing reconsiliation, role reversal for each party, but the same strategy. The more things CHANGE the more they stay the SAME. How is that HOPE& CHANGE thing going for you?

  • home boy

    reid and the rest of the politians should go find another job where they have to be honest to their employer. he’s going down and he knows it. bye bye reid.

  • eddie47d

    Evelyn,12:55pm; Nazi=right wing. Nazi’s hated communists and their (left leaning) system and wanted to impose their (right leaning) system on them. Nazi’s and communists both hated democracy so maybe that’s their commom thread. In Germany communists went into the labor camps and were shot,so there was no love affair with the lefties. Nazi’s and communists both persecuted Jews,just like the neo-nazi and the kkk here in America. The kkk is right wing Christian and collaborate with the neo-nazi’s.These two groups in our country attack all liberals and there is not a hate crime that they don’t proudly endorse;thus the right wing label. So pick your poison.

    • Michael J.

      Heir Eddie47, Sollten Sie lesen Hitler’s Mein Kamf um herauszufinden, wer seine kameraden wirklich wurden sehen sie dann das spiegelbild ihre dumkov Obama.

      • Claire

        Michael J–Be nice.

        • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

          Claire,
          Michael IS BEING NICE. He’s telling eddie47d how much he admires his brilliant posts, his waaaay above average political education and knowledge, and just how much he enjoys having him here on the blog every day. :-)

          • Claire

            Stephaan–Okay. You can tell I didn’t understand a word he was saying, only a couple of them. LOL

      • Michael J.

        Claire,
        Always nice to hear from you. You are always civil in your tone and I enjoying chatting with you however, others here are not so nice and most of the time very wrong. Please close your eyes when you see me setting them straight. Obnoxious posters only understand obnoxious.

        • eyeswideopen

          Michael, dont you mean anybody who disagrees with you is obnoxious? Don’t try to dress it up, you hate anyone who has the nerve to think differently from you.

          • L, USA

            flieswideopen, why so much the childish rant? throwing the hate card like a huge gnat just flew into your soup? do you really beleive what you are saying? or do we already know the truth? Repent and be ye washed!

          • Michael J.

            EWO,
            You disagree with me more than sour milk, yet I never udder a word of discontent over your bovinian excrementalism. Too do so would just be a waste anycow. XOXOXO

  • http://Smithpet8@aol.com David S.

    The Republican CONS., short for conservatives, are nickle, and diming the president over healthcare reform. But I didn’t hear all this fuss over the Blank Check To George W. Bush togo to war, ( it wasn’t necessary) to go to Iraq to off the rulers, as they didn’t attack us. But none the Less, Our Republican CONS said Carte Blanche To Bush over it. That cost Us 2 Trillion dollars. I don’t hear them saying We Must either “pay for war in Iraq, and Not saddle our kids, and grandkids with the bill”, necessary , or not. The Republican CONs., just signed up EN MASSE. NO PROBLEM. Now even though Congress has a great plan for itself, we hear the “American Public is beeing “Protected” against uncessary costs of Healthcare. The Republican Cons DO have some valid points. “LIKE Controlling Frivolous, and Vecatious Medical MalPractice Lawsuits. And Figuring out how to keep billing overpayment fraud under controll. and keeping abuse to a minumum . BUT I wanna see them TO First agree, That compromise IS NOT A DIRTY WORD. I think they want to argue it to death. STOP IT PLEASE. THAT’S MY PERSONAL OPINION. SPEAKING FOR MYSELF.

    • Joe H.

      David S,
      Buddy boy there were a majority of Dems that gave their blessing to go to Iraq also lets not forget!!!! Remember that now famous statement by our big Vietnam war hero and also Hilarity both saying “I was for the war before I was against it”!!!

      • Norm

        Joe H.

        They were lied to and made to believe that:
        1. Iraq had WMD’s.
        2. The Iraqi people would welcome the US with open arms and “flowers”.
        3. The war would be very short, probably less than a year.
        4. Iraq was involved with the 9/11 events.
        5. Iraq, with all it’s oil, would finance the war.

        lies! lies!

        • L, USA

          —————————————————————————–
          _____ _____ _______
          / ____| __ __ __| ____ ___ ____ __
          | | | | | | | | / __ ____ / (_)______ __ / __ ____ _____/ /_
          | | | | | | | | / /_/ / __ / / / ___/ / / / / /_/ / __ / ___/ __/
          | |____| |__| | | | / ____/ /_/ / / / /__/ /_/ / / ____/ /_/ (__ ) /_
          _____|_____/ |_| /_/ ____/_/_/___/__, / /_/ ____/____/__/
          The Center for Democracy and Technology /____/ Volume 2, Number 29
          —————————————————————————-
          A briefing on public policy issues affecting civil liberties online
          —————————————————————————-
          CDT POLICY POST Volume 2, Number 29 August 1, 1996

          CONTENTS: (1) Clinton Administration, Congress Propose Sweeping
          Anti-Terrorism Initiatives
          (2) How to Subscribe/Unsubscribe
          (3) About CDT, contacting us

          ** This document may be redistributed freely with this banner intact **
          Excerpts may be re-posted with permission of
          ** This document looks best when viewed in COURIER font **
          —————————————————————————–

          (1) CLINTON ADMINISTRATION, CONGRESS PROPOSE SWEEPING ANTI-TERRORISM
          INITIATIVES

          In the wake of the recent bombing at the Olympics and the suspected
          terrorist involvement in the TWA crash, the Clinton Administration and
          members of Congress are proposing a set of sweeping counter-terrorism
          initiatives. If enacted into law, these proposals will dramatically
          increase law enforcement surveillance authority over the Internet and other
          advanced communications technologies. An outline of the Administration’s
          proposal was circulated on Capitol Hill on Monday July 29.

          President Clinton has urged Congress to pass new counter-terrorism
          legislation before the Congressional recess at the end of this week. While
          several prominent Republican members of Congress, including House Speaker
          Newt Gingrich (R-GA), have said publicly that Congress should not rush into
          any new counter-terrorism legislation, most observers believe there is a
          strong possibility that some or all of the Administration’s proposal will
          be enacted before the August recess.

          The draft proposal contains several measures which were rejected by
          Congress as part of the previous counter-terrorism initiative proposed
          last year after the Oklahoma City bombing, as well as several new measures
          including as-yet unspecified changes to U.S. encryption policy and funding
          for the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA, a.k.a.
          Digital Telephony).

          CDT is concerned that the latest counter-terrorism efforts on Capitol Hill
          are occurring without appropriate deliberation. Major policy decisions
          expanding the surveillance powers of law enforcement should not be made
          without careful consideration of the necessity of such proposals and the
          relative benefit to society. In the coming days and weeks, CDT will work
          with Congressional leaders, privacy advocates, and the net.community to
          ensure that constitutional civil liberties and the openness of the Internet
          are protected as Congress considers counter-terrorism measures.
          ________________________________________________________________________

          MAJOR POINTS OF THE COUNTER-TERRORISM PROPOSALS CIRCULATING ON THE HILL

          The administration’s new counter-terrorism initiative and other amendments
          circulating this week in Congress contain numerous provisions, but four
          are of particular concern to the net.community:

          * New Threats to Encryption, Opposition to the Pro-CODE Bill
          * Funding for Digital Telephony Without Public Accountability
          * Amendment to Criminalize ‘Bomb-Making’ Information on the Internet
          * Expanded Authority for Multi-Point, “Roving” Wiretaps

          The full text of the Administration’s proposal and background information
          are available at CDT’s counter-terrorism Web Page:

          http://www.cdt.org/policy/terrorism/

          ——————————————————–

          I. NEW THREATS TO ENCRYPTION, OPPOSITION TO THE PRO-CODE BILL

          The Administration’s outline contains the following statement on encryption:

          “* Encryption — We will seek legislation to strengthen our ability to
          prevent terrorists from coming into the possession of the technology
          to encrypt their communications and data so that they are beyond the
          reach of law enforcement. We oppose legislation that would eliminate
          current export barriers and encouraging the proliferation of encryption
          which blocks appropriate access to protect public safety and the
          national security.”

          While no specific legislative language has yet been proposed, this
          represents the first statement by the Administration that they will seek
          legislation to further restrict encryption. Even more troubling, the
          Administration is clearly attempting to use the recent suspected terrorist
          incidents to push for a new and more restrictive encryption policy.

          This new proposal comes as Congress is finally beginning to seriously
          consider major changes in U.S. encryption policy. Bipartisan legislation
          in both the House and Senate to relax encryption export controls is gaining
          momentum. The Senate Commerce Committee has held 3 hearings in the last 6
          weeks, and is preparing to vote to send the Burns/Leahy “Pro-CODE” bill (S.
          1726) to the floor of the Senate. The Administration’s attempt to leverage
          the public’s concern about terrorism to block passage of the Pro-CODE bill
          is disturbing, and poses a significant threat to privacy and security on the
          Internet.

          CDT is working with members of Congress, privacy advocates, and the
          communications and computer industries to oppose any attempt by the
          Administration to impose new restrictions on encryption, and we continue to
          work to move the bipartisan export relief legislation through Congress.

          ——————————————————–

          II. FUNDING FOR DIGITAL TELEPHONY WITHOUT PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY

          The Administration is also seeking to override the public accountability
          provisions of the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA
          - a.k.a. ‘Digital Telephony’) by providing a funding for the law in a way
          that prevents public oversight of the FBI’s surveillance ability.

          Enacted in October of 1994, granted law enforcement new authority to
          influence the design of telecommunications networks (the Internet,
          Commercial online services, and BBS’s were exempted) in order to preserve
          their ability to conduct court authorized electronic surveillance.

          Congress balanced this new authority with a number of mechanisms to ensure
          public accountability over law enforcement surveillance ability.
          While complicated, the public accountability mechanisms are designed to
          work as follows:

          * Law enforcement provides telecommunications carriers, the Congress,
          and the public with notice of its surveillance capacity needs (i.e.,
          the number of simultaneous wiretaps in a given geographic location)
          with an opportunity for public comment.

          * Based on an assessment of the reasonableness of the law enforcement
          surveillance capacity request, Congress appropriates money to cover
          the cost of modifications. If Congress does not believe law
          enforcement has adequately justified its request, money will not be
          appropriated.

          * Telecommunications carriers are not obligated to comply with the
          statute or make any capacity modifications without government
          reimbursement.

          In October 1995, the FBI published its first notice of surveillance
          capacity (see CDT Policy Post Vol. 1, No. 26). The telecommunications
          industry and privacy advocates used the public accountability provisions of
          CALEA to respond to the FBI’s request and argued that the FBI had not
          adequately justified the extensive surveillance capability contained in the
          request. As a result, Congress has not yet appropriated funds and no
          modifications have been made.

          The FBI clearly believes that the public accountability provisions of CALEA
          are working **too well**, and appears to be using the recent focus on
          terrorism to push for a new funding mechanism which does not contain public
          oversight.

          CDT is fighting hard to ensure that the public accountability provisions of
          CALEA, which have until now prevented the FBI from acquiring unnecessary
          surveillance capacity, remain a part of the law, and will vigorously oppose
          any effort by the FBI and the Clinton Administration to remove the last
          opportunity for public oversight over law enforcement power.

          ——————————————————–

          III. THE AVAILABILITY OF ‘BOMB-MAKING’ INFORMATION ON THE INTERNET

          Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) has reintroduced an amendment to make it
          illegal to disseminate information on how to construct explosives knowing
          that the information will be used in furtherance of a federal crime. The
          amendment was adopted by the Senate earlier this month as part of a
          Department of Defense Appropriations bill. CDT believes that the vague
          provisions of the Feinstein amendment could have a chilling effect on online
          speech, needlessly duplicate existing criminal statutes, and should be
          removed.

          Feinstein first proposed the amendment as part of the 1995
          counter-terrorism bill. The initial Feinstein amendment was extremely broad
          and would have resulted in a flat ban on certain constitutionally protected
          speech online. After civil liberties advocates objected, Feinstein
          narrowed her amendment substantially, although it was ultimately dropped
          from the final terrorism bill signed in April 1996.

          ——————————————————–

          IV. EXPANDED WIRETAP AUTHORITY

          The Administration’s proposal would also significantly expand current
          wiretapping authority to allow multi-point (or “roving”) wiretaps. This
          would dramatically change surveillance authority to include wiretaps of
          INDIVIDUALS instead of LOCATIONS.

          This proposal would do away with the delicate balance between privacy and
          law enforcement that Congress has struck over 30 years of wiretapping
          legislation. Federal law has always required that wiretaps issue for a
          specific location, to meet Fourth Amendment requirements. In 1986 Congress
          introduced a narrow exception to this rule, only for cases where it could
          be shown that the target was intentionally evading wiretaps by changing
          facilities. The Administration proposal would completely remove this
          standard, allowing so-called “roving taps” for any persons whose behavior
          makes wiretapping difficult for law enforcement.

          The administration proposed similar provisions in the spring of 1995 in the
          wake of the Oklahoma City bombing. These provisions proved controversial in
          Congress and were dropped from the final bill.

          ________________________________________________________________________

          Please pardon the lengthy composition. Just thought you should know!

        • Michael J.

          Norm, You said:

          They were lied to and made to believe that:
          1. Iraq had WMD’s. The Russians moved WMD to the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon, bring a shovel and a AK47 with you.
          2. The Iraqi people would welcome the US with open arms and “flowers”. The liberated Iraqi people did welcome the troops at first. Remember when GI”s assisted Iraqi civilians pulling down the statue of Saddam so the children could beat the statue with their shoes?
          3. The war would be very short, probably less than a year. The war would have been short if we were allowed to persue it WWII style without the bleeding heart Liberals tugging at the heals of the soldiers.
          4. Iraq was involved with the 9/11 events. Al Qaeda training camps were found in Iraq.
          5. Iraq, with all it’s oil, would finance the war. This statment is false and was never promised by the Bush administration.

          If it’s not true, don’t post it Norm.

          • eyeswideopen

            Michael, if it were true, don’t you think Cheney would be out there plugging away? Every Repub, would be saying, but, but we found WMD’s.
            It is all crap. What they found were weapons, (not even the WMD type) left over from the Gulf War. Please,,,, if it were true, every repub everywhere would have been shouting from the roof tops!!!

          • Michael J.

            EWO,
            It was decided that where they are, buried 700 feet deep and encased in concrete is a good place for them. The Russians convoyed them accross the desert in a line of trucks that stretched from horizon to horizon which was documented by satelite imagery. High ranking members of the Senate and House were privy to, and swore to, keeping secret the same information as the President knew. That is why these same high ranking Senate and House members felt free to beat Bush over the head repeatedly for months and then years with the question,”Where’s the WMD?” All the while knowing that Bush could have no reply as a result of himself being sworn to secrecy.

            No one wanted the job of properly disposing of hundreds of tons of primarily biological weapons in a manner that would satisfy the libbies of the world which is why they remain where they are. Coupled with the fact that bringing this issue to light would embarass the Russians, The French and the Chinese manufacturers of the weapons whose support we were soliciting at the time. Rest assured however, that the site is costantly monitored for any signs of movement which would be dealt with very quickly.

            The story of the Russian convoy was reported by the MSM but quickly vanished into obscurity the way national security issues usually do.
            In 25 years or so we might know more but until then it’s likely to rival the questions still pondered over a particular grassy knoll.

        • Joe H.

          norm,
          they had access to the same intelligence reports that Bush had. so now you want me to put my faith in all these people that were duped by false reports and couldn’t see past their nose? As the libbies were so fond of reminding us Obama didn’t vote for it!!! Som if he was so smart, then why didn’t the rest of the little libbie piggies see it too???

    • DaveH

      So, let me get this straight, David. A guy walks up to you and says “I want your car and your wife”. You are bad if you say “No, you can’t have either!”?

  • Norm

    GOP bills passed using the tactic the party now decries as undemocratic include a slew of budget and tax-cutting bills, the most controversial being the 2003 and 2005 Bush tax cut bills.

    The list:

    Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981
    Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983
    Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990
    Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993
    Balanced Budget Act of 1995 (vetoed)
    Personal Responsibility and Budget Reconciliation Act of 1996
    Balanced Budget Act of 1997
    Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997
    Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 (vetoed)
    Marriage Tax Relief Act of 2000 (vetoed)
    Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001
    Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003
    The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005
    Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 20

    • Michael J.

      Norm,
      In April of 2009, Democratic Senator Robert Byrd who originated the process of reconciliation had this to say about it.

      “I oppose using the budget reconciliation process to pass health care reform and climate change legislation. Such a proposal would violate the intent and spirit of the budget process, and do serious injury to the Constitutional role of the Senate.

      As one of the authors of the reconciliation process, I can tell you that the ironclad parliamentary procedures it authorizes were never intended for this purpose. Reconciliation was intended to adjust revenue and spending levels in order to reduce deficits. It was not designed to cut taxes. It was not designed to create a new climate and energy regime, and certainly not to restructure the entire health care system”.

      In spite of the fact that the reconciliation process has been utilized more than 20 times since it’s conception in the mid 80’s, it has never been used to inact major policy change and certainly not for policy changes that involve 17 percent of our economy.

      Dirty Harry Reid is willing to march through the flames because he knows a chopping block awaits him in November anyway. Other Democratic members of the Senate may be a bit more reluctant to become Obamakazee and shout the Bonzai charge at the behest of the Emperor.

      If the Democrats proceed as planned, short term gains are likely, however long term failure will be assured.

    • GregS

      Norm, the instances, where reconciliation has been used, which you listed are a far cry from a major entitlement that will be irreversible, once it is enacted into law. So, I’ll repeat it again, since you liberals are so into repetition: Reconciliation has NEVER been used on legislation that is so far-reaching, and which will have such a major impact that this health care bill will have on this country!

    • blackhat

      Thanks Norm for proving the point…let’s see…budget bill after budget bill….gosh, I just don’t see a take over of anything in your list…wow.

      • Doc Sarvis

        …and this is not a take over either.

  • Norm

    from Warren Buffett, second richest man in the US:

    Buffett said health care costs are a major drain on U.S. businesses that put them at a competitive disadvantage. He said America’s health care system needs fundamental reform to attack costs because it’s not practical to continue devoting roughly 17 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product to health care.

    Buffett said much of the rest of the world is paying about 9 percent of their GDP on health care and have more doctors and nurses per person.

    “That kind of a cost, compared with the rest of the world, is like a tapeworm eating at our economic body,” Buffett said.

    • Michael J.

      Norm,
      Billionaire investor Warren Buffett advised President Barack Obama on Monday, March 1st 2010 to scrap the health care bill and start over.

      I don’t get it Norm, are there two Warren Buffet’s? Maybe you were quoting Jimmy Buffet while having a Margarita in your flip-flops?

      • DaveH

        No, Warren really did say that. But isn’t it strange that a Liberal will turn to a rich man to make a point when any other time they just want to tear that rich man down?

  • Norm
    • DaveH

      Isn’t that just like the Liberals who will support whatever the Democrats propose?

      • eyeswideopen

        DaveH, those were repubs supporting the individual aspect of the health care bill. They are a little confused as they think the talking points the repubs used are scary. That Koch family support is certainly making those John Birch theories work on the common man. Kudos to you and the whole group of Libertarians, your plan to take over the country might work.
        Can you name one country who functions as a true “free market”? Been hunting for many hours, can’t find any. Why is that?

        • JeffH

          Why is that? you ask…stupid is as stupid does…

        • JeffH

          A new poll of 20 countries from around the world finds a striking global consensus that the free market economic system is best, but that governments should also do more to regulate large companies. In all but one country polled, a majority or plurality agreed with the statement that “the free enterprise system and free market economy is the best system on which to base the future of the world.” On average, 61 percent agreed while 28 percent disagreed. The poll of 20,791 individuals was conducted by the international polling firm GlobeScan and analyzed in conjunction with the Program on International Policy Attitudes of the University of Maryland.
          http://www.globescan.com/news_archives/pipa_market.html

        • Claire

          Eyes–I realize there are Americans that do need health coverage. But don’t you think they should leave Medicare alone? Both parties have gotten into Social Security. Surely there are other ways to get around this problem. The health reform bill that they have right now is not good. They don’t want a single payer system and I think that is the best way to tackle this mess. It seems like they do not want to include the things that would do the most good. Therefore, I truly think they should drop it. Work on the economy and jobs. If there were jobs, people would have the money to buy insurance. I know some won’t but others would. Either way, the taxpayers are going to foot the bill.

        • Joe H.

          eyesfoldedshut,
          do you think a person that refuses to work but is able deserves coverage? Answer please!!

          • Claire

            No, they don’t deserve coverage. However if an honest person gets laid off, and cannot find work, then heck yes, they should be helped. And one never knows what it is like unless they are in that situation and has to worry when and where they will get their next meal, let alone get their bills paid.
            The ones that are able and will not work or even try to find a job should go without food for awhile, then I bet they’d try to find a job. Who knows?

  • L, USA

    “One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.” – President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

    “If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.” – President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

    Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.” – Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

    “He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” – Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb 18,1998

    “[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” – Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry (D – MA), and others Oct. 9,1998

    “Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” – Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

    “Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.” – Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

    “There is no doubt that … Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” – Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

    “We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.” – Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

    “We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” – Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    “Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” – Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

    “We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” – Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

    “The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…” – Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

    “I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force– if necessary– to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” – Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

    “There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.”- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

    “He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do” – Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

    “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.” – Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

    “We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.” – Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

    “Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime . He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real” – Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

    • Norm

      Good input. I’m impressed.

      • blackhat

        Of course you are not impressed Norm…I can’t stand listening to these lib idiots either…even when they may be right.

    • eyeswideopen

      L. USA, where are the repubs comments about Iraq? Are you saying that not one repub congressman supported his President, and none of them made any comments?

      • George E.

        Eyes,

        Everyone knows that the Republicans in Congress supported the Iraqi wars. I don’t think this is debatable.

        • eyeswideopen

          George, just being facetious, should have put lol at end. Sorry.

      • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

        Eyes “blinded by the light”

        God I hope you’re PRETTY, cuz you sure are SLOW!

        Of course there were repubs. that were for the war!
        L,USAs’ post was addressing the issue of the liberal democraps DENYING that they were EVER for the war, and whether they EVER believed that Saddam had WMDs’. Try and keep up.

        p.s. Eyes, if you ARE pretty, call me, 1-(541)-bite-me, extension 8 lol

    • http://wwwNRA.com Stephaan

      L,USA;
      Excellent post! You research is excellent. I’m copying your post for the next time this subject comes around.

  • Claire

    After reading all of these posts, I don’t even want to vote anymore.

    • George E.

      Claire,

      I know what you mean. I’ve come to the conclusion that our political system is corrupting because of all the money we give to government with inadequate oversight and transparency. That just tells me that we can’t trust any of our representatives for ever not to get caught up in this corruption. We have to do the best we can to elect representatives who most closely articulate our values and priorities, then watch them closely to make sure they follow through with their votes and actions. When they stray, we need to vote them out of office and find better alternatives. Part of the trick here, I think, is to stay real active in party primaries so citizens can exercise more control over the candidate nomination process than special interest groups with lots of money and influence. This is the only way for citizens to keep some control over our government, I think.

      • Claire

        George E– I sure hope this stupid health reform does not pass. My husband is livid. He is so aggravated. I told him this morning he had better calm down or he’ll end up in the hospital again. He is such a quiet person and for him to act like this, it sure makes me upset. I wish the idiots would just drop it. My gosh, it will only become a nightmare.

        • George E.

          Claire,

          I’m with you guys on that. I think a lot of things could be done to cut costs in health care, but sadly the politicians probably won’t do it because 1) they’re not including themselves under this reform, 2) there’s just too much money, power, and influence at stake, and 3) too little oversight and transparency in the process. All these guys know to do is spend our money, regulate more aspects of our lives, and increase the size of government doing it. Take care.

          • Claire

            George E–Well, guess what. My husband is still crabby tonight about health reform. Bless his heart, I told him NOT to watch anymore news this evening! I don’t want health reform either- more insurance companies will be raising their rates as soon as they can in case it does pass. These shenanigans will do nothing but backfire. But they are hell-bent to push it through.

      • Claire

        George E–You are right. I always vote in the primaries. And so help me, I will do my best to vote for the best candidate. No more monkeying around like I did the last time. A good Conservative for President I believe.
        It is just that I get so disgusted at times.

  • L, USA

    “Ron Paul joins with Democrats to vote against Pelosi probe: Republican Resolution defeated 252 – 172. FON: “Friend of Nan” …

    Political a$$ kissing indicates self promoting ambition. Not the kind of political leadership the GOP needs is it?

    Read it and weep: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/04/03-1

    • Joe H.

      L,USA
      There has to be some mistake in that report!!! D. Kusinich would never waste a good chance to spend!!! The aliens from outerspace would disown him!!

  • Norm
  • Barb

    Boy there seems to be a lot of democrats and libs on this site anymore.
    As far as we are concerned the issue here is Obama and his cohorts are very angry at the majority of the Americans for letting them know in no uncertain terms that we the people DO NOT WANT OBAMACARE so they are going to use whatever means possible to pass it now to punish us for having the audacity to speak out against his majesty! The SOB and company will stop at nothing to get their way and the United States of America will never be the same again, all because of a lot of stupid disillusioned morons who felt they shouldn’t have to work for something, that whatever they want they are entitled to it! There is a rather large sector out there that believes that and relies on others including the government just to get them through each day. They are the idiots that voted for Obama, they are the ones who will ultimately suffer the worst! Obama is now on a roll and there will be no stopping him. God help us all!

    • George E.

      Barb,

      Yes, there are a lot of liberals, Democrats, and Obama sympathizers on this board now. Sometimes I get aggravated over their numbers and comments. However, after thinking about this, I conclude this board “could” be better off with their participation than we would be if we only got conservative and libertarian views. It’s easy for groups of people who agree to fall into “group think” when all they hear are comments that they agree with, and readily dismiss those that they don’t agree with as idiotic. It’s good to hear opposing views on every subject so that we can sort out the arguments that make sense and those that don’t. After all, we’re all Americans who presumably want what’s best for our country today and in the future. We just have different ways of getting there. My hope is that we can all enter into respectful discussion and debate, keeping an open mind to opposing views, and thinking more like “independents” than the loyal party faithful. When we adopt the views of one political party or the other without thinking critically, we set ourselves up for group herd, and become nothing more than willing subjects to those in influential political positions. I can’t believe any of us really want that.

      • JeffH

        Well stated George E.

        • George E.

          Thank you, Jeff.

      • eyeswideopen

        Hands clapping. Thank you for the voice of reason.

      • Claire

        George E– Good post.

      • Barb

        Dear George E. and JeffH,
        1st of all I was just making an observation in my first sentence of my statement. Nowhere in my statement did I say that the Liberals , Democrats, Socialists, Marxists, Progressives whatever you want to call yourselves didn’t have the right to say their mind. I was speaking mine and I will say it again a little plainer. I always voted for the candidate all my adult life, not the party! Nobody tells me how to think or how to act, NOBODY! I am a free, educated, American, I think for myself and I do not rely on anyone but my husband to live and it’s visa-versa for him.We are part of the greatest free nation on earth, NOT part of a herd. We are part of the backbone of this great country, we are part of the ones being used and abused all the time, the hard working tax paying middle class! Until this last election I never wrote a letter or made a call to our congressmen, senators, or news media. I never went to an organized protest gathering, I was never this scared for my country as I am now, so I now have done all the above plus blogging on sites such as these.You have your opinions and that is fine, I have mine and I’m sorry but your mamby-pamby attitude retro to the 1960′s of let’s all get along, make love not war, if it feels good Man do it, pass the joint, let’s have a love in, philosophy just doesn’t cut it with me and a lot of Americans anymore. That kind of thinking is what got us into this awful mess we are in today! I’m frankly tired of working my butt off so others can take life easy and live off government, AKA, taxpayers money. Obama is wrong to force this ObamaCare nightmare on us and Reid is a pathetic brain dead jackass, along with Pelosi and company. That is my opinion and I still have the freedom to express it whether you like it or not! Using reconciliation in this in this way to get this forced through is just plain and simple WRONG! It is in my opinion getting to the point where it is us against them and getting along with the enemy is not in my manual for keeping America safe, sorry.

        • JeffH

          Barb, do not think for a moment that I, and I believe George E, was in any way criticizing or taking your comments out of context. I agree with you 100%.

  • skipfoss

    I have been studing the Constitution from start to finish also the bill of rights and NOWHERE have I found that it is up to the Federal Government to make a law that makes it manditory that health care be a right for every one in America. Nor can I find that we are to have Czars that have more power than the house and senate. The federal does not have any more power than the STATES allow them to have,also the president does not have the power to pass a bill,he is only allowed to sign or not the bills put before him by cvongress. We are allowing this half-breed son of a white whore to dictate what HE wants not what the people want and we do not put a stop to him and his communist comrades we will have “EL PRESIDENT “for life.Just wait until he declares an National Emergency and takes full power as the mayor and police did in New Orleans and takes your rights and guns ,not just for a few days but for good and has the UN police(Interpol)which he has already given the rights to by EO#12245 don’t beleive me look at the white house site about excutive orders that he has signed

    • Joe H.

      skipfoss,
      do you have any idea how many guns there are in the US? I think interpol would have quite a suprise on their hands if they tried to come to the US to confiscate them!!!

      • JeffH

        Joe H. like ole Gomer Pyle would have said: surprise, surprise, surprise!

        • Joe H.

          HeHeHeHe!!!

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