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Reflections On The Osama-Obama Saga

May 17, 2011 by  

Reflections On The Osama-Obama Saga

Of all the revealing things President Barack Obama has said throughout his career — in print, audio, video, and live — perhaps the most revealing of all was something he wrote in Dreams from My Father:

“Eventually a consulting house to multinational corporations agreed to hire me as a research assistant. Like a spy behind enemy lines [my emphasis], I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office and sat at my computer terminal, checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe.”

Why would Obama, who was by then a grown man (not a philosophically confused college kid), feel like a spy behind enemy lines when he was working in the corporate world? There are differing opinions as to what he meant by these words, but to me the only explanation that makes any sense is the one that is… well, self-explanatory.

Though he has gone to a great deal of trouble and expense to destroy the paper trail leading to his radical past, what we do know about this mysterious son of a Kenyan Luo tribesman is that the essence of his being is a belief in redistributing wealth and, in the process, destroying both capitalism and the Western way of life.

Thus, when it was reported that Obama himself gave the order for a team of Navy Seals to kill Osama bin Laden, it raised the question: If Barack Obama is still the same left-wing radical he was when he was close pals with Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, “Marxist professors” in college, et al, why would he order a hit on bin Laden?

The question proved to be rhetorical for many, as polls showed that anywhere from 2 percent (Rasmussen) to 11 percent (New York Times/CBS News) of Americans changed their opinion of Obama and gave him a favorable rating after the purported Osama bin Laden assassination in Pakistan. (Amazingly, some people even decided they liked his handling of the economy immediately following the bin Laden story! Don’t ask.)

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that Osama bin Laden actually was killed as per the government’s description of the event (no hard evidence of what took place has been made available to the public), those who see it as a sign that Obama is a genuinely patriotic American are confused. Even if the facts the government has disseminated about bin Laden’s death are accurate, the event is totally unrelated to Obama’s obsession with “fundamentally transforming America.”

Consider:

  • First, never forget that the No. 1 mantra of the Left is that the end always justifies the means. As Left-wing radicals are fond of saying, in revolutions, innocent people get killed. In other words, the deaths of innocent bystanders is just one of those things — an unfortunate sacrifice for the greater good. That said, if the Left isn’t bothered by the deaths of innocent people, why would Obama care about Osama bin Laden getting a bullet through the eye?
  • Second, can you name me a Left-wing leader, at any time in history, who was averse to killing either friend or foe? The Left has a history of employing violence. Nothing new there.
  • Third, Obama has repeatedly demonstrated that he doesn’t give a second thought to turning on anyone who gets in the way of his main objective. Why would he care about Osama bin Laden when he didn’t care about his own “spiritual mentor,” Reverend Wright? Or Hosni Mubarak, one of America’s staunchest allies in the Middle East?

Those who now give Obama a favorable rating for supposedly ordering the killing of Osama bin Laden still don’t understand that Obama is the Master of Distraction. The whole event was simply a distraction from his ongoing destruction of the American economy.

When he recently visited the southern border (for the first time in his presidency!), it, too, was nothing more than a distraction ploy. Ditto his campaign speeches when he danced on the graves of the shooting victims in Tucson and those who died at Ground Zero.

Perhaps Osama bin Laden really was killed on May 2. So what? America’s real problem — Barack Obama — is alive and well and continuing right on with his Marx-Alinsky-Piven plan to complete the fundamental transformation of America into a redistributionist hell. Of course, he and the Queen of Anti-obesity will continue to eat caviar and lobster, but… hey… the leader of a revolution has to be comfortable and well fed. After all, under Marxism, some animals are more equal than others.

Obama is a highly disciplined individual, so rest assured that he has not lost his focus on the dreams he got from his communist father. His obsession with destroying entrepreneurship, capitalism, the economy, the dollar, free speech and, above all, the Constitution is stronger now than when he first gained entrance to the White House, courtesy of the mainstream media’s running interference for him.

C’mon, now… do you really believe Obama has banned drilling in most oil-rich areas because he wants to make America great again?

Do you believe he refuses to enforce existing laws on illegal aliens and border security because he wants to make America great again?

Do you believe he enriched the unions at the expense of the bondholders and propped up General Motors with your money because he wants to make America great again?

Do you believe he has appointed scores of radicals to important government posts because he wants to make America great again?

Do you believe he’s added $5 trillion to the national debt since taking office because he wants to make America great again?

The list is endless, and it continues to grow on a daily basis.

The Master of Distraction knows how important it is that he continue to distract the pudding heads who are anxious to give him a boost in the polls every time he makes a smart-aleck crack about tea baggers or moats or alligators. The truth is, he doesn’t give a damn about Osama bin Laden — or anyone else who isn’t integral to his revolutionary goals.

If it takes a bullet in someone’s eye to distract the American public, so be it. That said, I’d like to propose a national moratorium on the gushy applause for Chairman Obama for his “gutsy call.” Please, enough already with the naiveté.

–Robert Ringer

Robert Ringer

is a New York Times #1 bestselling author and host of the highly acclaimed Liberty Education Interview Series, which features interviews with top political, economic, and social leaders. He has appeared on Fox News, Fox Business, The Tonight Show, Today, The Dennis Miller Show, Good Morning America, The Lars Larson Show, ABC Nightline, and The Charlie Rose Show, and has been the subject of feature articles in such major publications as Time, People, The Wall Street Journal, Fortune, Barron's, and The New York Times. To sign up for his one-of-a-kind, pro-liberty e-letter, A Voice of Sanity, Click Here.

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  • Jeremy Leochner

    My personal opinion in regards to the quote is that it strikes me as the kind of personal joke one might make to make an otherwise boring mundane day in their life seem that much more interesting. One could easily at any age make a joke to themseleves that their job particularly if it was a new job was like something exciting and adventurous or interesting and cool when in fact its rather ordinary and boring. I believe he was joking and not being serious.

    Second as someone on “the left” or a “leftist” as it were I wish to address the three points.
    First: I have never believed in ends justifing the means particularly in regards to killing innocent people. As a matter of fact I have often been called a “bleeding heart liberal” for saying killing innocent people is not the way to go and we should do everything we can to stop it. Any policy is going to disatisfy someone and I dont think simply believeing that but still supporting an idea means one believes ends justify the means. Because if it does then that means those on the right also believe ends justify the means.
    Second: Immediately I think of Martin Luther King, Mohandas Gandhi and Abraham Lincoln who in their time were derided as radicals supporting a too liberal position. Lincoln supported votes for African Americans a far left position considering the time he lived in. But he sought peace at every opportunity and at the end pledged “Malice toward none and Charity for all”. So called “leaders” dont represent ideologies unless one also agrees with those “leaders” personal beliefs. If someone preachs violence though perhaps I am a leftist like them I would never support them. Individual actions and individual beliefs are the way to judge a particular belief system and even then one should look at the beliefs before judging the very basis of them.
    Third: I disagree that Obama just turns on those who disagree with him. If he did there wouldn’t be all this debate about the various policies his administration has proposed. Also without denying the issue of Mubarak I will point out that Osama Bin Laden is responsible for one of the most tragic events in American history and was a symbol that other terrorists rallied to as inspiration to commit acts of terror. With him gone that symbol is vanquished and America has sent the message that no matter what one does they cannot destroy or intimidate us and that our values and ideals are strong and will not break.
    Finally I believe no man can defend his policies with any degree of commitment unless he sincerly believes them. President Obama strikes me as the type more likely to make a mistake then be underhanded. There is a great difference between making a genuine mistake and doing something as part of some plan to cause harm or out of some deliberate disregard for the people. I unfortunatly am biased in that I agree with some of his decisions and genuinly believe them to be the right ones for the situation. I disagree with others like paying big bailouts to big buisnesse’s, but I still think he is a capable person. I want to see even better of him, he hasen’t fullfilled my expectations though I will say I like I think many Americans had extremly high ones and high ones are always harder to meet.
    I believe he has made mistakes but mistakes are not the sign of nefarious scheming or conspiracy or plan unless you expect the President to be perfect in everything he does. Mistakes are bad and must be monitored and dealt with but they must not be taken out of proportion as I believe they have been.

    • Michael J.

      Jeremy Leochner,
      Thanks for the long winded poop show. Does it take that many words to justify your blind adoration of the Messiah?

      • MIKE

        SHEEP!!!

        • Mike in MI

          Mike – Righton! And to you Jeremy I say, BAH-H-H-Bah, blacksheep,
          pull your eye-wool down,
          My! Such twisted thought leaps,
          Two bags full but unsound.
          One shows your master.
          One shows your lame,
          So take one from the working boy
          To prove you know no shame.

          Jeremy, you disagree with Obama in small matters but he considers the basis of our society as a case of constipation, instead of Constitution,…and you’ll give him a pass on that?
          Oh-h-h, and you don’t think that’s anything like “the ends justify the means”? Obama acts like one of those people who, when he was little, no one ever told him, “No!”. So, now as an adult he’s convinced that everythinghe does has no consequences. But, you’re fine with it. You trust him. He hasn’t done anything to hurt you…has he? Well, not directly but since you don’t see how, it’s OK.
          You’re OK with it.

          • sb36695

            Actually, bankrupting America hurts EVERYONE! Even those who live on handouts will find they have less. History proves it, but I guess if you believe Obama is the messiah, the outcome will be different. It won’t be pretty.

          • Buddy

            A note regarding “The Ends Justify the Means”:

            Typically, the means become ends in themselves. Think about it in terms of things that “we” often do, which previously were only means to (questionable) ends

          • Mike in MI

            sb36695 and Buddy -
            Obama seems to think what he’s sowing will reap him a great reward and leave him unscathed. I guess in “Neighborhood Organizer 101 – 666″ classes they don’t let him know about the progressive functions of 1.War/Insurrection; 2.Famine; 3. Pestilence; 4. Mega-Death.
            My goodness, won’t he be surprized? Surprise, Surprize you O’BathHouseBumBlaster, you!!!

          • Mike in MI

            Oh, Anybody, PLE-E-EASE,
            Throw a bucket of water on him. That’ll keep those monkeys away from that damn banana.

          • Jana

            Jeremy says

            Third: I disagree that Obama just turns on those who disagree with him. If he did there wouldn’t be all this debate about the various policies his administration has proposed. ************

            Of course there would be debate especially from the side that doesn’t agree. I don’t hear Obama debating, I hear him going out and doing his campaign rhetoric and using this method to try and convince the people. What Obama doesn’t seem to comprehend is, the people are a lot smarter than he thinks they are.

            Another note, I live in Texas, and it is obvious that he does not consider himself to be our (Texas) President. Nor does he consider himself to be Arizona’s President, nor any right to work state’s President, and he certainly doesn’t consider himself to be President of the Conservatives or Republicans. He has made the statement that the Republicans can sit in the back of the bus.

            Personally, I beleive Robert Ringer is right on in his analysis of Obama.

          • Christin

            Mike in MI,

            You’re so funny and so right on.
            Enjoyed your posts…
            Thanks for the evening chuckle.

        • Jana

          Jeremy,
          As Bob Livingston pointed out yesterday:
           Dear Jovianus,
          Or is it Jeremy Leochner, G.Lewis, Sutekh, Rachel, rollin, Steve or HFlashman? It’s difficult to keep up with exactly who you are at any given moment.

          Are you all one and the same, or are you related?

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Jana I am always and only Jeremy Leochner. I am a real person and that is my name. I dont believe in pretending to be other people. My beliefs are my beliefs and I try to be honest about it.

          • Jana

            Hey, tell that to Bob Livingston, he is the one who posted this. Are you related to any of those people? Do you work, live or interact in one of the same buildings?

          • Mike in MI

            Jana -
            Whichever is on display at any given moment just depends on which one of the multiple personalities won the previous argument. It’s crowded in there sometimes one must act as referee.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            No im just a guy at his computer. I once read something on this post and thought I should comment. Found it very informative and decided to come back every now and then and voice my opinions. Im not associated with Mr. Livingston in any way.

          • JeffH

            Jeremy, for a college guy getting an education you deflected Jana’s comment quite well. The problem is, you never answered it. Do you work for the same people and out of the same offices using the same “router” for your computer as Jovi-commie, G.Lewis, Sutekh, Rachel, rollin, Steve, Mick, mick or HFlashman? Either way I’m pretty sure I already know what your answer is!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I assure you Jeff I dont work in the same offices or use the same routers. I cant give personal information to total strangers on the net. The best I can say is im a student who goes on his home computer and posts his opinions. I dont work with Livingston or anyone and my opinions are entirely my own.

          • DaveH

            Jeff,
            Notice how he said he doesn’t work for Livingston? As if we would accuse him of that. Jeremy is sounding more like the devious Jovianus all the time.
            The fact that he just keeps repeating the same naive things over and over tells me that he is no student. Even the most blindered students thirst for knowledge. Not Jeremy. He doesn’t want anything more than to play games and mislead people.

          • DaveH

            I think Jeremy, or Jovianus, or HFlashman, or whoever he is, is really just an Alinsky Apostle here to mess with Freedom-minded people.
            He claims he is a champion of the Constitution, yet approves of the behavior of the most Constitution trampling president in our lifetimes.
            Sure, Jeremy, anything you say.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, correct and that was the point of my “deflecting” comment. Nobodies comment ever hinted that Jeremy was affiliated with PLD in any way.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Technically Jeff and Dave Jana and Jeffs comments seemed to ask wether or not I worked with Mr. Livingston and I felt I should say that I dont. I dont wish to dodge questions but will you grant me its dfficult to prove who one is without giving up private personal information.

          • Kate8

            JeffH – I’m confused about why you included Sutekh. He/she seems pretty conservative and sensible to me.

          • Jana

            Jeremy,
            No wonder you have problems on this site. You can’t read plain English. No one EVER aksed you if you work for Bob Livingston, no one even assumed you did.
            You have been told this now several times. You are supposed to be in college yet you seem to have no reading comprehension skills. You have learned dodging answers skills very well though.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jeremy sounds very much like the high school kid that used to go on town hall and harrass everybody till he was figured out. Even bragged about how long it took us “old farts” to figure out that much!! He was doing a paper for some class but we ruined it by figuring him out too soon!! Jeremy seems just as lame and just as bereft of life experence!!!

          • JeffH

            Kate8, this is the list that Bob left in his comment about Jovianus yesterday and the other posters that had the same IP address. Sutkeh happened to be on that list.

            Bob Livingston says:
            May 16, 2011 at 9:21 am
            Dear Jovianus,

            Or is it Jeremy Leochner, Mick, G.Lewis, Sutekh, Rachel, rollin, Steve or HFlashman? It’s difficult to keep up with exactly who you are at any given moment.

            Thanks for your “astute” analysis, lacking substance but not lacking left-wing buzzwords nor spelling errors.

            Good day to your many personalities,
            Bob

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I suppose yes Jana. Very well I am not related to “those people” and I dont work in “the same building” as your post says. Hasty rush to comment on my part. I apologize. I dont wish to dodge questions. Mixup on my part.

      • Jerry Owens

        A top shelf reply

      • charchar

        Great reply!!! Succinct, terse and pretty darn funny, too!!!

      • http://aol surghucjls

        Amen

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I dont adore President Obama Mike. I just tend to agree with him. Adore implies devotion to him alone. My devotion is to the Republic and what in my limited perspective I think is the best for our country. For now I believe Obama is the best option and I think his policies are mostly good. So long as I believe in my heart and head that he is trying to do good I suppport him but my adoration and devotion is always to the Declaration and Constitution.

        • http://hubscher1@earthlink.net bob hubscher

          Are you CRAZY! There isn’t one thing you refer to that makes any sense. I guess they let anyone use this comment platform even if they are certifiable. What planet are you from? Amazing.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I am an American Bob. Declaration of Independence-All men created equal/ Constitution-Bill of rights, Pledge of Allegiance-to the flag and Republic of The United States. These are my loyalties. If a President does something that I believe is hurting the country even if I voted for him I feel its my responsibility to oppose them. Im loyal to the ideals of Liberty and Equality for all. May sound old fashioned or crazy apparently but I think it right and honorable. I love my country and am loyal to it. Thats what I mean.

          • JC

            So you say Jeremy…
            That you are an American, then you list a few traditional American values…but tend to agree with th communist in chief…
            You are a very confused person.

          • Jana

            Jeremy,
            The only thing we have to go by is what you say. You say in this last post you don’t ‘adore’ Obama, but in everything else you write, you drip adoration to Obama and to many Communistic prinicipals.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Jc and Jana I say I support Obama. I believe in alot of things that he says. I support him because I support many of his policies. I still try as hard as I can to be as unbiased as possible. I believe he has made mistakes, if its anything though I certainly got a little caught up in the excitement over President Bush leaving,personal opinion, I never fell into the crowd of those who seemed to think Obama would walk on water or somehow solve everything. Of all the people opposing him I think hes the best candidate, I support some of his policies but I do still remember he is human and the President. One can support something without adoring it cant they.

          • JC

            Jeremy Leochner says:
            May 17, 2011 at 10:35 pm
            Jc and Jana I say I support Obama. I believe in alot of things that he says. I support him because I support many of his policies. I still try as hard as I can to be as unbiased as possible.
            ___________________________________________________________________

            As I said you are a very confused person.

            Obama’s only policies involve the destruction of a nation he feels no allegiance to.
            You better get some “bias” and quick! This criminal has got to go.

            Get a mitt and get in the game son, either you’re pro American or you’re not.

        • Wayne937

          Jeremy, do you agree with Obama’s non drilling oil policies which is sending gasoline prices out of sight? Do you agree with him when he has already spent 3.7 trillion dollars of the tax payers money? This is more money spent in all of our past presidents put together. Do you agree with the 9.0 percent unemployment rate? Do you you realize that the Obama policies are raising the prices on all consumer goods via higher gasoline prices, and inflation? Do you agree with him when he associated himself with Bill Ayers who blew up governmet buildings in the late 60′s to early 7o’s. Do you agree with Obama when he sat in a church for 20 years, and the paster of this church blasphemed the United States? I don’t know how old you are, but if you agree with Obama on the above things I listed above, God help this country if you represent the majority of Americans. Jeremy, I hope you are smart enough to dwelve into Obama’s past well enough to understand what kind of person we have leading this country. It is people like you that put this man in the drivers seat. He is taking this country down the path to destruction, and fast. You had better dig into Obama’s background and see if you want this man to continue on for another 4 years. I can guarantee you, if he wins reelection we will not be a free country anymore. Every law he has passed, and all the regulations he is putting in place takes your person freedom away. My freedomis something I take pride in, but since Obama has been the president our freedom are slipping away. Do you know that Obama wants to pass the “cap & Trade” law. Do you know what this Cap & Trade law will do? It will almost double you energy rates. This is a fact. Please! study Obama’s past and see if he is still the president you want for another 4 years. Do you also know he quest for ethonol is using up the a valuable supply of corn which is also raising the price of the our grocery bills. If you shop you will see how much food has risen over Obama’s last two years. I rest my case.

          • DavidL

            Deficit under Bush and Obama

            2000 – 5.96 trillion – Clinton

            2000 – 2008 under Bush – 11.32 trillion + 5.37 trillion

            2009 – 2010 under Obama – 14.3 trillion + 2.98 trillion

          • http://personalliberty.com rchick

            Good post! May I add that the price of rice, which is supplied to those countries with REAL starving people, has risen dramatically because of corn being used for ethanol? Thus, the money given to those organizations who help feed the hungry in third-world countries, i.e., Feed My Starving Children, can supply only half of what they did formerly. That equates to more people dying. Such compassion!!! (That was sarcasm!)

            Take care and have a great day!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I agree with the non drilling laws in light of the Gulf Oil Spill and becuase I dont think it is a primary factor in raising prices. I disagree with so much spending and believe we should make cuts in pork barrel spending. I strongly disagree with the unemployment rate. And I dont believe his policies are driving prices up. I believe supply and demand and the issues in the Middle East are the primary factors for rising prices.
            I believe in regards to ethanol and in cap and trade he is not pursuing the correct path but while I dislike the rise in energy rates I think its good for protecting the enviornment to some extent though I hope for more funding for a more useful alternative to oil to come soon so we dont have to worry so much about cap and trade issues.
            I believe the President means well and I still believe in him. I believe his policies do not destroy freedom anymore than Bushs did and I would say that Bushs policies were I think more extreme in terms of violation of privacy and more based on fear. But I put them in the same catagory in that both were laid out by Presidents who had good intentions. I believe President Obama will find a better way to use executive power and I believe that if he is given more time he will improve the economy and if our economy gets better any restrictions he places will not be as necessary. I believe some restrictions are necessary and we should monitor the government that imposes them. I dont believe restrictions should be necessary and we should get rid of them as best we can but we must make sure we dont need them first.

          • DaveH

            Notice how often Jeremy uses the word “believe”.
            Liberalism as a religion. Jeremy is the quintessential Liberal. No facts, just beliefs.
            That’s why Liberals want so badly to do away with Christianity. It competes with their religion of Liberalism.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Its hard to say I know something without running the risk of being wrong. If I believe I can change my beliefs if sufficient evidence is presented to me. Liberalism isnt a religion unless any belief system that requires people to genuinly believe in it is also a religion. One can strongly believe without claiming to know for certain.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jeremy,
            IF, as you SAY, you were so much against Bush’s security practices, then you should abhore Nobummers policies as he has not only extended Bush’s policies, he has strengthened them!!! Watch in the next year, if he gets reelected, to see the same procedures in bus stations, that are in airports!!!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            You know Joe you are right about airports. I do disagree with such measures and its one area where I disagree with the president. I think he should have stopped such measures and its going over board to do maintain them. I think he can do better and I want to push for him to change such things. I believe I will vote for him most likely and if he is reelected I strongly hope that he will make a change in his security policy.

          • RayLindsey

            Wayne937, I loved you post, pretty much sums up this administration. I seriously doubt that Jeremy is old enough to know what he is talking about. He has obviously been brain washed. I know of no other reason for taking this liberal point of view

        • JeffH

          Jeremy, I honestly suspect you’re not truthfull. Are you devoted to and pledge your allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, or to another “REPUBLICK”?

          • Curtis S

            Didn’t someone post here that the pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist that wasn’t a big fan of democracy (Bellamy I think was his name?) And let’s not forget the ‘under God” was added some 60+ years later, in 1954… to be different from the atheist commies… not because of the founding fathers or any real religious need.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            No I assure you Jeff im being truthful. To the Flag and Republic of the United States. As I perceive it the Declaration of Independence with the promise of Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and the promise that All men are created equal is the embodiment of the Republic. I do support equality above all else but liberty is just as important.

          • DaveH

            You don’t support Liberty, Jeremy, if you support Obama and Big Government. Give your nonsense a rest.

          • JeffH

            Curtis S, you’re correct. The pledge of allegiance as we know it has been changed from Bellamy’s original wording.

          • http://naver samurai

            It seems that Jeremy has forgotten those rights were endowed by our Creator and not the government. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            As an agnostic I dont believe we were endowed with these rights by a creator or the government. I believe we are all born with equal rights and that no one can take that away. The problem is often people forget that we are all equal and treat others as unequal. If the government decrees or if god( I apologize and I say this from an agnostic point of view) declares that people are not equal that dose not make it so. People are born equal with the same inalienable rights no matter what anyone says.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You are correct Jeremy, when you say we are all born equal, as we are all born sinners. Since the fall of man, everyone of us is born into sin, and there is only one way out, Jesus Christ. Thats it brother, whether you want to accept it or not, it is the only way out.

        • JUKEBOX

          Jeremy, you need to look up the word “MYRMIDON”, for that is a perfect description of you. You must be blind and deaf if you cannot see what Obama is doing to America.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I dont consider myself a blind devotee or absolute loyal servant of Obama. I believe he has made mistakes and done things I disagree with but I believe what mistakes he has made can be corrected in due time and for now I believe his actions are not inexcusable or not unexplainable. For those ideas with which I agree I feel they can be explained or honorably justified. I support him partly out of a sense that since I voted for him I feel I owe it to him to give him a chance to do better. Admittedly its difficult to have a completly frank discussion via blog or post. Perhaps if we were discussing face to face I wouldn’t seem like such an Obamite or whatever term is used for people who adore Obama.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JUKEBOX,
            I think I have Jeremy figured out. I went down all his posts here and he doesn’t have a post after 10:30pm. I think that means he is about 16 years old, out of class at noon each day, parents won’t let him stay on the computer after 10:30 or 11:00 pm!!! Oh, he’ll probably try to convince mommy or daddy to let him stay on later from now on in a lame excuse to try and prove me wrong, but………..

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I am older than 16 Joe. Though I do sometimes miss those good ole days. It was a simpler time.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          For you to say what you just said, tells me that you need professional help immediately. I sure hope you werent saying that with a straight face, or your problems are deeper than imagined. Done a good job? Really? So that change is working for you? Millions of lost jobs. More jobs moving overseas. Unemployment up. Welfare expanded. Food Stamps expanded. Billions given to GM and Chrysler to buy future UAW votes. Wars escalated. Illegal war started. Spending more in 8 months than any president ever did in 8 years. Apologizing to our enemies. Using OUR MONEY to pay for lawyers to defend terrorists. And you call this doing a good job? Get some help man, do the world a favor, and just get some help.

        • RayLindsey

          So Jeremy, I read that your devotion is to the declaration and the contitution. Then I have to ask, how can you support an administration that walks all over it. i.e. health care reform,bailouts of G.M, crysler and many others. Apoligizing to the radical countrys in this world for Americas transgressions. All you need to do is take a good look at the man and see who he associates with. Who he has appointed to the supreme court. Who he has appointed as his “Czars”. Give me a break. Wake up!!!!!

        • KiloAlpha

          So, you agree with:
          QE2 and printing $20 BILLION dollars per week which has devalued the fiat paper you carry in your wallet which is directly proportional to the rising costs of everything, and most predominate at the fuel pump? With the gov’t takeover of free enterprise in the form of two global auto companies that your sovereign wealth is paying for with a multi-billion dollar loss at the time of selling these companies back to private hands? With the most monumental usurpation of desecration of the Consitution of the United States in the form of the so-called oboing care bill which has NOTHING to do with you getting better medical care, but has everything to do with you losing Liberty and Freedom, and began as 2700 pages of something worthy of softening to finish the job in the bathroom and is now currently in excess of 10,000 pages of literal crap that has blossomed because with it’s criminal passage it’s becoming the behemoth as it takes shape–remember, the moonbat nancy told you that they had to “pass” it to know what was in it (and you think that this dog snot is somehow acceptable, legal and good policy?) You accept that with every congressional recess that this world-class jackass you support continues to fill cabinet positions with NO vetting or congressional approval? You sign onto this usurper allowing agencies of the federal gov’t to make “law” (the color of law) via mandates such as the FCC and the EPA, not to mention the Dept of AG? You accept that one State of the Union, AZ, enacting legislation within the state that merely backs up federal law then gets sued by the federal (feral) gov’t for enforcing federal law is acceptable? There is hopefully some rubber room for your confused brain to self-destruct, because you are admittedly one confused human being. I hope that the Lord comes into your head and heart and shows you what this Constitution Republic is supposed to be and just how blasphemous this muslim usurper you so think is doing a good job is the polar opposite to anything resembling Constitutional…constipational yes, but NOT Constitutional.

    • DaveH

      Now you’re starting to sound like the person you really are, Jovianus.
      Okay, that aside, “Jeremy”, or whoever you really are, or what you really are, you said “First: I have never believed in ends justifing the means particularly in regards to killing innocent people”.
      Then you must disapprove of Obama picking a side and killing innocent people in Libya? Don’t give me that Gaddafi is an evil man excuse, because he’s the same man he was when Obama took office, and even when Reagan was in office. Also Obama didn’t secure the approval of Congress, Ever. And he launched a war against a country that in no way was a threat to the US — thus Unconstitutional. But what’s the main law of the land to Obama?
      For thinking people, not you Jeremy (or Jovianus, or HFlashman, or whoever you really are):
      http://blog.mises.org/16135/on-libya-congress-and-the-constitution/

      • Al Sieber

        Good one Dave, good call, and thanks for the link. I’ve had my suspicions about Jeremy also.

        • http://WeThePeople Jean

          Jeremy Leochner says – is this another one of OBUMMER’s illegal name’s

          • Jana

            Al Sieber,
            Yesterday Bob Livingston outed the following as all coming from the same IP address.

            ********
             Dear Jovianus,
            Or is it Jeremy Leochner, Mick, G.Lewis, Sutekh, Rachel, rollin, Steve or HFlashman? It’s difficult to keep up with exactly who you are at any given moment.
            ***********

          • Al Sieber

            DaveH, maybe it’s “American Liberal” from last year?

          • Al Sieber

            Thanks Jana.

        • Jeremy Leochner

          Al you and Dave have a right to believe what you want and I cant change that. You can either disregard my argument and my beliefs or you accept me for who I am. Jeremy Leochner. That is my one and only name and it is who I am.

          • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

            Jeremy Leochner or whoever you is, Your are the real Anus Rectal Orfice) of Your Messiah Obama

          • DaveH

            Oh, thank you for your permission, Jeremy. I am so relieved.

          • DaveH

            Or Jovianus, or HFlashman, or whoever you really are.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            WIA I dont worship Obama. Its possible to support a President but remain loyal to the Republic above all else.

            Dave I thank you for all the times we have debated. I appreciate your allowing me to say my opinions. I wish you would continue to meet me in debate with a serious argument but if I cannot convince you that I am who I am then theres really nothing I can do. I am serious about who I am as I always have been. You’ve always meet me in serious debate Dave and with respect I dont understand why you choose to do so no longer. But I shall not judge. I am who I say I am Dave just as you are. When you wish to recognize my opinions as valid and accept them and me for who I am and what I believe I’ll be happy to have a serious discussion.

          • libertytrain

            DaveH – I read this and this song came to my brain so I had to find it just for your listening pleasure -
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbLlCxK0pHY

          • JeffH

            Libertytrain, good find and post. Thanks!

          • DaveH

            Debate? Sure, Jeremy, whatever you say. But there is no debating. You are just regurging the party line.
            Dream on, Jovianus, or Hflashman, or whoever you really are. On the one hand, I find you very annoying, but on the other hand, I know that your canned drivel is counterproductive for the Liberal cause, so It’s good that you comment.

          • libertytrain

            Jeff – I was thinking I should have added your name so you’d see it as well. Glad you did. ‘Them was the days…..’

          • Jeremy Leochner

            An exceptional song.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Thank you Hflashman/Jovianus/Jeremy!!!!!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Its just Jeremy Joe. Jeremy Leochner.

          • JC

            Jeremy Leochner says:
            May 17, 2011 at 1:00 pm
            Al you and Dave have a right to believe what you want and I cant change that. You can either disregard my argument and my beliefs
            ___________________________________________________________________

            As long as your beliefs include communism and a “tendency to agree” with the imposter, you have no argument to listen to.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Or is it Smilee? Or maybe denniso? How about eyeswideshut? Sounds all the same and the posts read the same.

        • Patty

          OK. Stop. Jeremy is a 21 year old. Into the arts. College student. Also posts to the Huffington Post. Google him. He has a facebook page. I believe he is reaching out, trying to learn. Don’t turn him off. Turn him on to conservatism. Give him lessons to learn. Lessons on our constitution. We just may be able to save this one. He is still young and impressionable. I think he is here to learn something. I think he doesn’t believe his indoctrination to Obamaville and he is searching for answers. Can we try before we throw him away?

      • Mick

        Dave.

        Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt concerning M. Livingston’s post yesterday on the ” What now ” article assuming that Jovi, Jeremy and I are one and the same person .
        I am a woman from Nevada and very conservative at that, I am far from being a computer wiz and my research on the IP addresses didn’t produce much results. I have no clue to where the liberal gang come from and resent being put in the mix but I read your answers on the subject and you were confused but fair about it.
        I don’t know how to convince you that I am just plain Mick with no aliases but I guess that after reading my posts you will realize that no liberal would post the way I do…….
        Thanks again……………Mick.

        • Al Sieber

          I believe you Mick.

          • Mick

            Al.
            I figured you would be one of the folks who would believe me..
            Thanks..
            All of this technology is great but it invites a lot of fraud and many many mistakes..
            Still thinking on driving to oatman soon, just love your place.
            Later,,,Mick.

          • Dan az

            Mick
            I too also belived you are who you say you are but I didn’t realize that you where a woman,thanks for the heads up.I don’t get this IP stuff either but I’m sure Bob L will investigate it further.Stick in there girl.

          • Jana

            Mick,
            I also believe you. Just keep posting and we know you are a conservative and a friend.
            I took your name out of the first quote from Bob Livinston, but left it in the second one so people would know what we were talking about.

            The others though ARE liberals and it makes you wonder if they are one and the same OR at the very least related.

          • Al Sieber

            Mick, I live at a mining camp 4 miles s.w. of Oatman, and work at another mine 12 miles away, I go through Oatman every day to work and you know the main street is only 900′ long (Old RT.66) but with all the tourists walking around petting the wild burros, it takes me more time to drive that 900′ then the whole trip, I’m glad tourist season is almost over.

          • Mick

            Al Sieber says:
            May 17, 2011 at 11:00 pm
            Mick, I live at a mining camp 4 miles s.w. of Oatman, and work at another mine 12 miles away, I go through Oatman every day to work and you know the main street is only 900′ long (Old RT.66) but with all the tourists walking around petting the wild burros, it takes me more time to drive that 900′ then the whole trip, I’m glad tourist season is almost over.

            ********************
            Al….I hear that…..When we go to Oatman we park at the beginning of main street and walk up, it’s almost impossible to drive thru, it’s great for tourists but hell for people having to go thru.
            Later …..Mick

        • Nadzieja Batki

          The expression is “the proof is in the pudding”.

        • TIME

          Mick,

          I think that we have a few such as the noted MONKEYS who are in fact working with Media Maters or one of the other arms of the same beast.

          I for one Don’t think your one of them, thus I thank you for your great post that expand the mind, {rather than contract} as per the normal MONKEYS post. That alone tells me your not in that bag.

          Its a sad thing that we live in such times, yet its an honor as well. Many of us will be lost in the coming years due to laws that we will be alleged to have broken, either preceived or just outright fabricated. “What dose not kill us will make us STRONGER.”

          If one dose nothing then they have no say in what will befall them and if they fall for rhetoric they as well as worthless.

          *If one stands and hold the TRUTH as thier shield, as many of us do, we will grow in numbers we must regain as well reeducate the YOUTH so they understand what they will loose if these Monsters take total control.

          I will be judged not by MONKEYS, but rather by my Maker who quite clearly stated; “He will not judge me by my belief’s ~ “but by my actions and deeds.” Therefor I can stand knowing that I gave my all.
          Even if in my youth I too was a trained MONKEY due to my ignorance of what was really going on, not due to being mindless & STUPID.

          American First, what ever else long after. I am not a Black American with Hispanic, French and Irish, Native American roots.
          I am Just an “American” end of story.

          “Only Total Freedom is valid, nothing short of it will suffice.”

          • Mick

            TIME says:
            May 17, 2011 at 9:23 am
            Mick,

            I think that we have a few such as the noted MONKEYS who are in fact working with Media Maters or one of the other arms of the same beast.

            I for one Don’t think your one of them, thus I thank you for your great post that expand the mind, {rather than contract} as per the normal MONKEYS post. That alone tells me your not in that bag.
            ************************************

            Thanks TIME…
            Glad to see some folks backing me up…
            Though I am disappointed that this mistake was ever made I am happy to see some folks who actually see through murky water,,
            thanks again. later Mick…

        • DaveH

          Mick,
          Where are you blogging from? Home? An Institution? If so, would you mind identifying that Institution?

          • Mick

            DaveH,,
            I am a bit surprised at your answer, maybe I misjudged you when thinking you were a fair guy..
            I am not going to play games and I will repeat myself one more time.
            I am a conservative woman from Nevada and yes I am blogging from home,I only own one desk top computer and frankly I am very sorry to see that you let your confusion of yesterday fly out the window so quickly, you seem certain about your opinion today and made up your mind that I am a liberal nut case,….
            If I misunderstood the meaning of your post ,I apologize but the tone you used indicates that you’re under the impression that Mr, Livingston was right in his assessment, so be it…

            Best regards, regardless….Mick

          • DaveH

            Such hostility. I wouldn’t expect that from a legitimate conservative.
            I was simply trying to get to the bottom of things. Since you are blogging from home, there are only two possibilities -
            1) you are a different Mick with a different IP address.
            2) you are the same Mick that Bob said had the same IP address as Jovianus.
            At any rate, Bob knows.

            The fact that you lashed out at me makes me suspect number 2. I have been close to 2 chronic liars in my life, and that was their common characteristic if anybody questioned their statements.

          • karolyn

            Dave – I see no hostility. The only hostility that is from you. What is your problem? Mick’s posts are obviously from the same person who has been posting as Mick all along.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Hey DaveH:

            Ya spose Ole Jovi is a cross-dresser?

          • DaveH

            “maybe I misjudged you when I thought you were a fair guy”?
            No hostility, Karolyn?
            What else could I expect from a woman who has no problems with voting to take other peoples’ money and control their choices, but who looks in her mirror and sees only Cinderella?

          • DaveH

            And Karolyn,
            Please show me where I expressed any hostility?

          • DaveH

            Ah, the upside-down world of Liberal morality. You gotta love’em. NOT.

          • Karolyn

            Dave, your harping and sarcasm are definitely hostile, as is what you just posted to me. Mick was trying to defend herself, and all you did was post baiting remarks. Why bother at all? Is it that important to you? And I’m not being hostile when I say that you are like a dog with a bone. You just don’t let go.

          • DaveH

            From one dog to another — arf!

          • DaveH

            By the way, Karolyn, I didn’t really expect objective analysis from you. As I said, your mirror reflects Cinderella. But rest assured, the rest of us know a different Karolyn.

          • Karolyn

            Not that what you think matters in the least, Dave. :-)

          • Mick

            Dave
            Now you really got me confused…What hostility?
            Read the end of my post….

            If I misunderstood the meaning of your post ,I apologize but the tone you used indicates that you’re under the impression that Mr, Livingston was right in his assessment, so be it…

            Best regards, regardless….Mick

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Hey Mick:

          Here is a thought that you may be interested in.

          On Saturday mornings there is a computer tech radio show from Phoenix. It runs from 7:00 am to 10:00 am Paacific time.

          It is hosted by Kim Komando – the “Digital Godess”

          You can call in and ask her about this IP address issue.

          1-888-825-5254

          • Patty

            Remember my name comes across as patty & Patty depending on which computer I am at.

        • JeffH

          I particularly recall another liberal loon who used the name “mick” in lower case letters.

          • DaveH

            For sure, Jeff, there could be two Micks. But the fact that Mick got so upset when I simply asked if he/she was blogging from home or somewhere else makes me wonder. As I said the people in my life who were the most reactionary were the people that were hiding something.
            Anyway Bob knows. He can see what this Mick’s IP address is.

          • JeffH

            I will always take Bob’s word in matters like this…he’s got the tools to identify the sources…and anyway, we’ve wondered out loud about some of these posters for over a year.

          • Mick

            Carlucci says:
            May 17, 2011 at 5:58 pm
            Maybe Mick should change it to “Mick the chick”.

            &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
            Carlucci,,,,As you well know i did like this title ” Mick the chick “But who ever is messing with me will get to that name as well , we’ll see,, Thanks Carlucci.

        • April

          I wonder if Jeremy/Jovi used the name Mick, and it all leads back to him and not to our lady friend here the real Mick.

          • Carlucci

            Maybe Mick should change it to “Mick the chick”.

        • Patty

          I believe you Mick. Check this site on IP addresses.
          http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100428131843AAC3cM2

      • Jeremy Leochner

        My name is Jeremy Dave as it always has been. I am Jeremy Leochner.
        I have no reason or desire to pretend to be someone else. If I did I wouldn’t say anything.

        I disagree with going into Libya unconstitutionally just as I disagreed with Iraq. War is always wrong and should be avoided. I figure since the Libyan people rose up we had an excuse to enter but that does leave us in an awkward position regarding other countries whose people revolt.

        • Wayne937

          Jeremy, there you go off on a tangent again. You said you are against all wars. Are you against world 11 after the Japanese attached Pearl Harmar, and killed over 3000 American,and sank a lot of our battle ships & our aircraft? I am also a peace loving man, but there is a time in your life you have got to fight whether you want to or not. I feel that World War 11 was a justifiable war on the part of the United States. I may agree with you on Afganistan and Iraq, to a certain degree. Jeremy, you really need to think before you speak. However, you may be quite young yet, and unaware of the things going on in the background. I hope this is the case. We have some good Conservative gloggers on this forum. Listen to what they say and analyze the situation.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I oppose war in all manners to the best of my ability. Though one can perhaps excuse war one cannot jusify it. The jury is hung on the matter. World War II was terrible. I believe we had no choice but to wage war against one who attacked us. I am a hypocrite but I am who I am. War is I feel avoidable if people take time to consider the consequences. There are terrible crazy people in the world who never do but we cant stop that. The best we can do is control ourselves as best we can. Avoid war as best as possible and strive to make war as honorably and humanly as possible by ending it as quickley and as cleanly as we can. War will always exsist and perhaps it can come unawares or unwillingly. Best I figure is try to lessen it, oppose it, contain it, and hinder it as much as possible.

        • DaveH

          No, Jeremy, or Jovianus, or HFlashman, we had no excuse. The War Powers Resolution specifically states that the President can only involve our military without Congressional approval if our country is attacked by another country:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

          The Law. What Law? Obama don’t need no Law!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Jeremy Leochner,
          Ok if that IS your name, do you use others here as well?????

          • Jeremy Leochner

            No. I see no reason to have my views attributed to anyone but me. Only faliure can come from pretending to be someone else.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Now, just a few posts earlier, you referred to yourself as Jeremy Joe. Now its Jeremy Dave. How many of you are there?

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Grammatic mistake on my part. I used my first name then refrenced the person whose post I was responding too. My name is Jeremy Leochner

    • Gramma4Life

      I totally agree with Mr. Ringer. Distractions from addressing the important issues in America are important for him, just as they were for ex-president Clinton.

      • Jerry Owens

        He had years of training in this same subject.
        That is all he knows

    • hipshotpercusion

      Jeremy, evidently you do not know much about the 16th President of the united States. Honest(sic)Abe was a southerner and a affirmed racist. He did not believe that the black and white races could live together and was in favor of sending them all back to Africa. He was one of the worst Presidents and perhaps qualifies as a War criminal for his policy of taking the War of Northern Aggression directly to the civilian population of the Southern States. these things are a written part of American history and not just my musings. Look it up for yourself.

      • karolyn

        How can anyone say Lincoln was a southerner when he was born in Illinois?

        • DaveH

          Read my comment below, Karolyn. Learn something.

        • libertytrain

          He was actually born in Kentucky – very interesting memorial housing the log cabin – not too far from Louisville.

        • Bill J

          Sorry Karolyn, but Lincoln was born in Kentucky!

          • Jerry Owens

            No no no Lincoln was was born in Kenya

          • Jana

            Too funny, Thanks for giving me a good laugh.

          • Mike in MI

            Jana -
            Yea, and it was Obama who was borned in Illinois – Chicago – in a private bath house – yup, the one which had the name removed from the stall.

          • DaveH

            Didn’t Honest Ob grow up in a log cabin, splitting wood, and reading by the firelight?

          • JUKEBOX

            It was close to Harrodsburg, KY.

        • Mick

          karolyn says:
          May 17, 2011 at 7:58 am
          How can anyone say Lincoln was a southerner when he was born in Illinois?((((((((((((((((
          (((((((((((((((((((

          karolyn….I know that I am of subject but I wanted to thank you for your effort to try to rectify what Mr. Livingston posted yesterday about Jovi, Jeremy etc..and myself being one and the same person.
          You and I don’t agree on much but you are absolutely right about me, I am a woman and a conservative and you didn’t let Mr. Livingdton’s assumption veer you from the truth..Thanks again…Mick.

          • independant thinker

            Mick……….Perhaps you are a little quick to take umbrage at Mr Livingston’s post yeaterday. There was a Mick posting here for a time that was about as liberal as they come and never missed a chance to defend jovi and eddie.

          • DaveH

            Bob knows if this Mick has the same IP or not. And what kind of woman would choose the username of Mick, anyway? I could see Mic for Michelle, but Mick?
            I think whoever it is should change her username and start fresh. If she doesn’t have the same IP as Jovianus then her problem will be solved.

          • Patty

            Mick – Dave is not going to let this go. I vote with Carlucci. Mick the Chick. You agreeable?

        • Ken

          Abraham Lincoln was born in North Carolina before it was split off on the west. NC has a statue of him on Capitol grounds with two other presidents born in NC all astride a horse.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Probably because he was born in Kentucky.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        hipshot!

        That’s great handle! I sued to read that comic strip in the Chicago Tribune when I was a kid! Rick O’Shay the sheriff, Mort Gage the bankeer….

      • Jeremy Leochner

        As a Civil War enthusiast I have read many books and heard many discussions about Lincoln. Lincoln was not the Great Emancipator. Most of his life he choose to tolerate slavery where it already exsisted and stop its spread as the best way to kill it and to perserve the Union. He always felt slavery was wrong and though for most of his life he was prejudice he believed African Americans had the same rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness as whites and was often attacked for it. He was undeniably wrong in supporting colonization though I would say he felt it should be voluntary and he mainly supported it only because he naively thought it could somehow please everyone and keep the Union from seperating.
        As to the War Lincoln hoped early on to restore the Union as it was without attacking people or their so called property in terms of slaves and their actual property in housing, farms and other aspects of livelihood. Bear in mind it was Civil War which could have destroyed the nation and the primary motivation for it was to break morale and end the war more quickly. Lincoln was a man who was sickened by the sight of blood, who gave ammnesty to deserters and I strongly believe in his heart of hearts Lincoln disliked attacking civilians and would have preferred only that property from those who actively fought against the Union or against the army be taken or violated. But many southern civilians as would be expected fought for what they say as there homes and supported the confederate soldiers with food and supplies. The supplies needed to be cut if the war was to end and for the country to survive. But I believe abuses were made and I think Lincoln would have disapproved of them. I believe Lincoln would be the first to tell you he had faults and made mistakes. But I believe he was a kind person who at the end of his life saw humanity in all people and supported giving votes to African Americans as evidence of that. Lincoln was not the Great Emancipator but he wasen’t the Great Gorilla or Hun either.

        • JUKEBOX

          I noticed that Obama chose to go to one of the most segregated schools in America, in violation of Federal law, Booker T. Washington in Memphis, TN. Apparently, he was the whitest person there, even though he tries to disavow his DNA at every opportunity, and call himself BLACK. By the way, Lincoln tried to get the slaves to return to Africa, some of which did, and founded Liberia.

        • JC

          Lincoln thought he could save the Union by abolishing slavery…HAH! That’s Rich!

          Learned all that in school did ya Jeremy? LMAO

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Slavery divided America and violated the principle of all men created equal. However Lincoln thought tolerating slavery was the way to save the Union and stopping the spread of slavery was the way to kill it. I learned none of that in class. I learned that from noted Civil War and Lincoln historians like James McPherson and Shelby Foote.

          • JC

            You really believe that sh*t don’t ya?
            Lincoln’s ONLY motive was to regain control of the agriculturally rich south on behalf of his industrialist buddies in the north who needed those raw materials. So they all put their pointy evil little heads together and came up with slavery as their soap box.
            Lincoln also offered blacks the opportunity to secure their freedom by serving in the Union Army for a term of one year. He used them for cannon fodder.

            Naieve boy you are.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            I believe slavery was wrong and that Lincoln sincerly wanted to restore the Union. And that no one would endure the pain, bloodshed and criticism as a result of the blood shed if all they were fighting for was commericial interests. The Civil War was fought over the Restoration of the Union and it became about Ending Slavery and Restoring the Union.

          • Patty

            Jeremy – Abolishing slavery was not about black or white. It was about green. Follow the money. Freeing the slaves helped them to gain international support, as most of Europe had already disposed of the practice (slavery).

    • DaveH

      Jeremy says “Lincoln supported votes for African Americans a far left position considering the time he lived in. But he sought peace at every opportunity and at the end pledged “Malice toward none and Charity for all”.
      Do you study any history at all, Jeremy? Do you do any critical thinking at all?
      He sought peace at every opportunity? Surely, you kid. Here is a man who launched a war against a group of states who no longer wanted to be in a Union whose Central Government was stepping all over the Constitution as created by those brave revolutionaries who fought to throw off the bondage imposed on them by King George.
      Lincoln was well-known for his efforts to send the Blacks somewhere other than the US. He wanted any new western states to be free of Blacks. The Blacks were just pawns in Lincoln’s game of Power over the Southern States.
      Here is a well-documented quote by Lincoln:
      “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything”.
      So he launches a war against a group of states who merely wanted self-governance, just as the citizens who revolted against King George wanted, which resulted in the deaths of 600,000 people on both sides, and Jeremy says he was a man of “peace”. Read this for more (and ideally pick up a copy of the book “The Real Lincoln”, or “Lincoln Unmasked”:
      http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=207&sortorder=issue

      Jeremy, you are terribly naive. You should make an effort to cure that. If you want to cure it, that is, and are not really Jovianus, or Hflashman, or a member of a group of people whose only intent is to disrupt or mislead readers of this website. For those who don’t know what I’m talking about, Bob Livingston, revealed yesterday that those 3 names all had the same IP address. What are the odds?

      • Jerry Owens

        I have pissed many many people when I would state that Lincoln was the worst president That includes the present.If I ever go to the Lincoln memoial will piss on it.

      • Cliffystones

        Well Dave you know the saying. The winning side writes the history. And they’ve done a fine job of Deifying President Lincoln.

        My ancestors were from the south. I have learned over the years that the Confederacy wasn’t just a bunch of hooded clansmen lynching blacks and demanding eternal slavery for them. But try to explain that to some liberal indoctrinated Yankee!

        • JUKEBOX

          The Civil War was intended to ‘SPREAD THE WEALTH OF THE SOUTH AROUND’ to the New England states that were buying the Southern cotton.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          It is funny how, if we take the time to educate ourselves, we find out and learn things that both our parents and our schools taught us, were not exactly the way it was. I remember growing up, from reading books about the civil war and the south, that the south was all a bunch of racists that hung blacks on every tree, and that the northerner’s were a bunch of fine dressed gentlemen. I have found the truth to be quite the opposite. And I am lucky to not be a racist, as my parents used to take me to ball parks in the black areas of town when my older brother played, and told me to stay close to them because the blacks all had knives and would slit my throat. I remember when busing started and I was scared to death of black kids. Until I started playing sports with them, and found out we were all the same, and most of the black kids and myself, would cover each others backs before we would guys of our own color, because some of us actually knew right from wrong, and sided with the right no matter what. And now that Im a Christian, I know that God doesnt see us in color, and it really ticks me off when I still see race being made an issue so many times, by black leaders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, whose only source of income is to stir racial tension, and they continue to do so. Its a plain shame.

          • Patty

            Thank you.

      • SWard

        Your quoting of Lincoln is taken entirely out of context- a common device of liberals, atheists, and the like. Lincoln, at his worst here, was just not telling the truth about his deeper abolitionist believes in order to get elected. While this hints at “The end justifies the means.”, his intensions were far more noble than those who lie to turn a free nation into a communist one. For a better look at this quote without reading through the entire debate, use the following linc, uh link, rather:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Douglas_debates_of_1858

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Dave Lincoln sought to avert war all his political life. The very quote you use is from a speech where Lincoln tried I feel to hard to convince people to calm down about the slavery issue. Lincoln wanted slavery dead because he thought it was wrong. But he felt it should be slowely killed in order to keep the country intact. Lincoln in his first inaugural address said “We are not enemies but friends we must not be enemies”. He also said “You can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressor.” Lincoln didn’t wage war. The South fired the first shots at Fort Sumter and compelled Lincoln to fight or give up. I have thought and listened long and hard as a Civil War enthusiast about such things. If the Union had lost the war and the Confederacy gained the independence it sought I honestly believe the nation would have been lost forever and slavery, which was legal and protected in the Confederate Constitution, would have continued unhindered. The majority of southern soldiers did not give a rats behind about slavery and fought for their states rights. But in doing so they fought for a cause that would destroy the Union and preserve slavery none the less.

        • DaveH

          Jeremy, spare me your BS. If you indeed are a student, you would be eager to read the book “The Real Lincoln”, but you aren’t, and you won’t.

          • JUKEBOX

            Jeremy has been studying REVISIONIST HISTORY, which is taught today in all of the segregated government schools in Memphis, Atlanta, and Birmingham.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Jukebox Lincoln said those things in his first address. The many writings of his life all mention that he always said slavery was wrong. The Confederates under P.G.T Beauregard did fire the first shots at Fort Sumter. The Confederate Constitution makes slavery legal and protects it as an inalienable right of the south. And please correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure most Confederates said they wanted “independence” from the Union. It dosen’t seem that strange to believe that Southern Independence would have meant the end of the Union and the survival of slavery. Please tell me how that is revisonist.

          • karolyn

            Stated just like so many arrogant men I have known who think they know everything, even what others are thinking and doing without even knowing them.

        • JC

          You make this stuff up as you go don’t you Jeremy?
          Take Dave’s advice and read “Lincoln Unmasked”.
          Then move on to “Hamilton’s Curse”.
          You might learn something about the pattern of lies we’ve been fed that culminate with an imposter in the White House.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          The conquering north forces were the ones that got to write the accounts of things, and wrote them to exhalt themselves and their leaders, kind of like todays liberal press. You know Jeremy, where no matter how many million people are now free in Iraq, and how others nations over there all want freedom now, having seen in starting to work in Iraq, mind you, just as Bush hinted it might, the liberal press still blames him for everything, not giving credit for a thing. Mean while, they are all aglow about Obama getting Bin Laden, when it was the work done at Abu Gharaib that let to finding him. But they own the press, and they report what they want us to believe. Much like the victorious north, which wrote history to read as they wanted it to. I would fully imagine, without a doubt in the world, that had the South prevailed, this would be a much, much better country. For one, there wouldnt be no ACLU and politically correct organizations going around spewing their hatred. It wouldnt be tolerated, nor would paying for lawyers to defend terrorists caught trying to kill us. Nor would sitting around on your butt refusing to work. I believe we would be much better off. Oh, and by the way, I was born in the north and still live in the north, but have plans to retire in Tennessee, so Im not biased by living in the south.

          • Patty

            My dream is to retire in the south. Only, I never see retirement in my future and I just don’t know if I have the energy to start all over again.

        • Patty

          Jeremy – It is: Dave, Lincoln

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Thank you Patty. My mistake.

    • Dagney

      What a fool…. and, yes, a useful idiot.

    • Roger

      Of course LEFTISTS LOVE VIOLENCE, just look at the behavior of the unions, one of the top fund raisers for obama, “communist in chief in America”.

      • Mike in MI

        Roger – “Of course, LEFTISTS LOVE VIOLENCE…” How could it be otherwise?
        When everything one stands for, everything one says and everything one does is in absolute, diametric opposition to the facts and Truths displayed in God’s Word and the historical accounts therein one must expect to never have His help or blessing on anything one does. In that situation, one might as well try to make a truck garden grow in Death Valley. It’s like trying to make a culture flourish under Islamic domination (damn-nation).
        Since what leftists do is like putting an elephant on guard, standing on the hose…everything withers. So, like what Mohammed and Obama-style people must do, on MUST go after what your neighbor has in order to subsist…get what he has by lieing, cheating, theft (by varied ploys, con-artistry or siezure) until at some point…people start killing (since they are not likely to appreciate what one has told them he “wants to do for them”).
        Leftists always begin gaining followers by promising “freedom from…whatever (the fear, need or devil of the moment)”. Or, they promise, “freedom to…whatever (usually something illicit, licentious or degrading)”. The only such promise ever made in this respect that has been predictably productive and profitable was this one: “If you contnue in my Word, then are you my disciples indeed;
        And you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32.
        Nothing is for free. A lot of people, and God, gave an awful lot for the Word (Manual of Life) to be available. Discipleship is not free. Salvaton is so valuable we could never pay the price. So, salvation is free, but not discipleship. It will cost a lot of your time training your mind to the Word to really see results from that resource (no discipline – no discipleship). Then, you can know the Truth. And, in conjunction with that, one will be free.
        One of the greatest paradoxes in the world is that there are two kinds of “FREEDOM”. One “freedom” comes from keeping an open mind which brings confusion or licentiousness which issues in bondage. The other comes from binding one’s mind to focussed study of God’s Word which brings disciplined action which issues in “freedom”.

        I don’t think Obama ever had anybody tell him, “NO!”

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        And the unions will remain beholden to the democrats, as they just gave them billions of dollars via GM and Chrysler, to ensure their future votes. Meanwhile, the unions are so dumb, that despite Bill Clinton sending millions of their jobs to Mexico, they still vote for these guys, and give them billions of dollars back. A typical case of the blind following the blind.

        • Patty

          You forgot gov’t. unions that were propped up by the bail outs. Because if Obama had not bailed out the states, they would be laying off state employees and losing those union dues. His main re-election campaign $$$ support.

    • Gary in Texas

      When I read your dribble the word IDIOT comes to mind .
      The shoe fits and your are wearing it !!!

    • wandamurline

      The real poop behind the bin Ladin mission is this….Odumer did not order it…he was listening to Valerie Jarrett who would not allow him to order the mission because if it failed, he would be held accountable. The real hero of this mission (if bin Laden was actually killed) was Leon Panetta and Hiliary Clinton along with Patreaus….they ordered the mission and after it was started, they went and got goofus off the golf course so he could take credit. Make no mistake….Obama has not changed his colors on anything.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You can call yourself the True Believer in Obama, the truly faithful. Except you are not able to convince any of us.

    • Dan

      What’s not to understand here? Have you not read …at least exerpts from his books? The guy hates America and Americans and says so. Direct quote. If the political winds shift I shall stand with….crap cant remember exact words but directly said he’d side with Muslims. Admits to burning the American flag, Says America IS NOT a christian nation. And you mentally challenged liberals still adore him?? Simply disgusting. And ohh by the way the day after the Bin Laden raid right here on AOL they had an article that boldly stated that Odumbo the clown did not even know about the operation until AFTER it had already been launched. According to the article Valerie JArrett had the puppet on a string and wouldn’t LET him make a decision so…again according to the article on AOL. Biden, Clinton, Paetreus went behind his back and initiated the operation anyway

      • JUKEBOX

        Obama often reminds me of the cartoon of Alfred E. Neuman preparing to flush himself down the commode, saying “WHAT?ME WORRY?”

    • BKWsr

      on your third point: He attacked the man who became Joe the plumber. by sending local authorities to investigate him and an attemp to ruin him. Other points of interest. Why did he go so far out of his way to hide his birth cirtificate?(I am not one of the so called birthers,But they have a vallid point) Why did he have OBL killed when he could have been taken alive? Why dump his body at sea? I have many reasions why he should have been taken alive, But then if he had done any thing different, there would not be any contraversy. He is constantly creating contraversy. Why? Everything he has done. He did for the contraversy. To make it look like people are picking on him. Why is it said that every one who says something against him is against him because he is black. because they are prejudice. I say this. I do not know the man. I do not like or dislike him. But
      I do not like his policies. I do not see the country getting better. I see it getting worse. How long are people going to blame all this on ex pres. GB.

      • JUKEBOX

        Why do people keep on perpetuating the racist fraud of Obama being “BLACK”? If you mix black and white paint in equal amounts, you end up with a shade of gray. You don’t end up with black!

    • Roy Major

      I agree! Those twist Obama’s history and accuse him of not being a patriot are the ones who are confused for political reasons. I am an octogenarian who remembers how Joe McCarthy had no shame in calling loyal Americans communists. And I remember those who called the “integrationists” communist. Like the boy who cried wolf, no one is going to beleive Robert Ringer when does have a legitimate, unbiased claim. He is like those who quote unrelated passages of the Bible in order to prove unsubstantiated claims.

      • BKWsr

        I like to read, and watch the history channel and other history programs. I know you can not believe everything you read and see. I was bourne in 1958, 21 years of military service. I have watched a few programs that have said J.McCarhy was correct in what he was saying, and what he was doing. There were a few inocent people caught up in storm, But if you harber someone who is out to distroy your country then you are guilty. If you do not believe that there are people out there who want to distroy the US then you had better wake up.

      • JeffH

        Roy Major, you can see by the responses in this thread that there are many who agree with Mr. Ringer’s comments…May I suggest you do some serious research instead of relying on your liberal media sources.

      • JUKEBOX

        Do you happen to realize that there are more black students going to segregated schools today than there were before the integration order?

      • Patty

        Roy – Maybe you should read one of Obama’s books. Then you may see a different point of view.

    • Penny R. Freeman

      Jeremy, doesn’t it seem awfully coincidental that any time your Messiah Obama comes under fire for his “poor handling of the economy” or the way he’s opened our borders to any scum who wants to enter this country and sponge off the taxpayer or when he wants to make it appear that he is doing such a grand job of getting more domestic oil production while his administration was under contempt of court charges by a federal judge for the exact opposite of that, etc. he finds a way to appease the public and the mainstream media morons who always kiss up to him in any way possible? I mean just prior to the Bin Laden killing he was being publicly criticized by some in the media and future competitors for the office he now holds for his unfair or poor judgement in his handling of foreign affairs. And on the domestic oil production issue that’s just one more smoke screen he’s cooked up. Yes domestic oil production has been up some in recent months, but his administration had nothing to do with it. All the permits issued that actually led to production were issued under the Bush administration. Obama’s administration has issued one permit and it took a fedral judge to get that done! He sneers at states with Republican governors and refuses most of them any federal disaster relief, but can find more than enough money to invest in oil exploration in Brazil. Don’t try to tell me I’m wrong on the disaster relief issue. He claims to have sent plenty of help to Texas, meanwhile they are still battling multiple wildfires with almost no federal assistance. His administration claims our southern border is more secure than ever, but rapes, murders, and other heinous crimes are on the rise in our border states. Are the criminals prosecuted? No, they can’t be because they just recross the border. And his administration has increased the number of illegals deported?! Yes, but only the criminals-ones who were actually caught and convicted of crimes. Well guess what, just crossing the border illegally IS A CRIME! In a lot of other countries around this globe if you did that you would be jailed or killed. Just look at the case of the two Americans still in Iran because they crossed the border while hiking which made them U.S. spies. And as for Obamacare which is another of his grand ploys set to destroy the U.S. economy, look at the fuss that was made about his desire to have a one payer system and not getting Congress’s approval on that one. Well guess what, the way that law is structured the federal government will be the only payer once that law is fully implemented. Why? It puts a cap on what insurers can charge for their healthcare insurance, but puts no limit on yearly or lifetime payouts in benefits those insurers have to make. It certainly won’t take long for insurers to go bust with that type of mandate. And the last time I checked the object of business is to MAKE MONEY! Who are the ones running up the costs of healthcare in this country? The illegals who cross the border, get healthcare and other benefits such as SS, but never become citizens so they are never a part of the system. An illegal can cross our border, get the requisite care in order to deliver a healthy baby, and then draw SS benefits because that child is now a legal resident of this country but neither of his/her parents are! There was a case of an illegal in Florida who was in a hospital in a coma for a very long period. The feds refused to do anything. He had no relatives the hospital knew about who could or would pay any of his expenses. After the bill for his stay became more than one million dollars the hospital had had enough. They took on the expense themselves and found a way to get him deported to his native land. Don’t try to tell me all illegals are just here to get jobs. And don’t try to tell me they’re all good decent law-abiding citizens. That’s one misconception the public needs to dismiss. And then of course we have our legal citizens who would rather sponge off the system and collect SS checks for having more and more children rather than actually obtain an education and work. Your dear and wonderful Marxist Messiah is doing a grand job of running this country into the ground. In his short time in office he and his allies in Congress have managed to run up more debt for this country than all our previous presidents combined! Doesn’t that make you adore him that much more Jeremy?! He’s doing such a great job. He even put the former CEO of GE in with the group in charge of job creation. That’s the same person who shipped over 20,000 jobs to our friends in China so they could produce those crappy compact flourescent light bulbs. No I don’t like or want any more of those things. I had one start smoking even. I don’t know if it would have caused a major problem if I hadn’t caught it when it started, but it doesn’t make me a fan. And for the expense they’re not worth it. They don’t last nearly as long as they claim and they don’t give off the same amount of light as they age as they did in the beginning. I want my incandescent bulbs back. It’s past time to tell the feds to get out of our lives. And where’s the outcry over our non-war Obama had to go to the U.N. and the Muslims to get us involved in, but he never went to Congress as required by our Constitution. You do remember that document right? The one Obama and his Marxist/socialist/communist/Muslim allies take no issue with destroying at their leisure. Jeremy do us all a favor, either grow a brain and learn American history and values or GET OUT OF THIS COUNTRY!

      • karolyn

        The ones who run up health care in this country are the people who keep running to the doctor for every little thing and demanding medication that isn’t necessary.

        • Wayne937

          Karolyn, to question Penny makes you and idiot. She hit the nail squarely on the head. I have done my research snd I know she is correct in what she has said. Go back to sleep.

        • JC

          Do you think that situation will improve under Obamakare Karolyn?

          • Karolyn

            Nope!

          • JC

            Me neither. In fact it is that very behaviour that reveals why every aspect of socialism is ultimately a failure.
            People have to be responsible for themselves.

          • karolyn

            Yes, we are all responsible for ourselves. The fact, though, is that each and every one of us is unique and comprehensive education is the only thing that will ever help humanity in general.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Karolyn, now you just made a statement, that I totally agree with, that we all are responsible for ourselves, or make that we should be responsible for ourselves. And if you really believe that as I do, then how in the world can you vote for the democrats? They fully believe that they should decide what we think and do, and that we should all be dependant on them. Everytime one of them comes into office, they raise taxes and expand social programs. Look at the very first things Obama did, and I mean the very first things, right off the bat. He started using our money to fund abortions in third world countries. He expanded unemployment. He expanded welfare. He expanded food stamps. He started running the printing presses around the clock. All with no way to possible pay for this, being totally unresponsible for his actions. All the democrats continue to want to expand their social handouts, to keep these idiots that vote for them down and in their place, right where they want them, dependant on the government. So I have to ask, how can you make this statement, and turn around and vote democrat? Its not right Karolyn, to recognize and know we are to be responsible for ourselves, then vote and side with those who foster being dependant on government. Its just not right.

        • KiloAlpha

          Karolyn, do you think that insurance for every little cut, bruise, and sniffle just “happened” and here we are all screwed in health-care debt? You know what medical insurance initially started as? Insurance originally began as a means to cover the cost of catastrophic medical care, surgery mainly, but, the meddling of political hacks, and I’m sure by the insurance companies in some form began to change the coverage to where you now have co-pay and full coverage for splinters, blisters, upset tummy and sniffles. Do you think paying for these services is free or that the doctors time to tend to small things is on some sliding scale based on severity? If you car insurance covered oil changes, wiper blades, and car washes, you’d be getting screwed on that,too. Gov’t meddling in free enterprise is the No.1 reason that American business is no longer a producer but a service provider. Gov’t meddling in YOUR healthcare is the No. 1 reason that you pay huge premiums or your employer does to cover you–because it covers everything under the medial/healthcare sun. It has nothing to do with patients going to the doc who have insurance, those patients are paying premiums. It has everything to do with docs being told what they will get from gov’t insurance and private insurance. Many docs refuse gov’t insurance patients because of the gov’t refusal to pay 100%, and it is documented that over 30,000 docs will leave their practice if 2014 arrives and oboingo care remains intact. The jackass and his liberal trolls can mandate whatever they want about you medical/healthcare payment, but they cannot mandate that a doc start or stay in a practice to examine your sorry excuse for an American self. Good luck with your gov’t healthcare, you might want to stock up on OTC goods before the jackasses’ crony Sebelius outlaw bandaids and anti-bacterial ointment without a gov’t hall pass to go see a “magician”.

      • Wayne937

        Penny, I read your message and I agree with it. It is exactly how I see it too. Obama is a master when it comes to fooling the people. They only watch what he says, not what he does in the background. The Libs are very shallow in their thinking.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Wayne937,
          nobummer is like a magician! while you watch what he is doing with one hand, the other is picking your pocket!!!

    • Kate8

      Jeremy, Whether you, personally, agree with or condone all of the tactics of the Left, it makes no difference to them as long as you support them.

      Your vote is your consent. Guilt by association.

      • Kate8

        I posted this in response to Jeremy’s first post, the first post on the thread! And it’s now way down here.

        Weird.

        • Mike in MI

          K88 -
          I were gonna’ say that very same thng hours ago. Now I find it way down here and YOU signed it.

          Wierd.

    • http://fox walter

      Jeremy, You are sure to be a blind to the truth, head in the sand,can lead you any where, ignorant, sheep. Wake up, open your eyes and see what is really happening around you, not just what they want you to hear and see.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I have to go on the facts, that the author listed above. The guys regime has failed, and it has failed miserable. They have spent us so far in debt, and continue to refuse to be held accountable and stand their on their soap box in the public square, and insist still, 2-1/2 years later, on blaming others. When does the accountability start for them? And though I totally agree on taking this hater of freedom out like we did, the fact remains, Obama only did it because he had too, because he knows with the election coming up, it would have came out that he had the intelligence telling him where Bin Laden was, and he refused to act. He had no choice, but to do it for political gain and political gain only. However, being in the position of President that he is in, he should have wanted to grasp that opportunity to rid the world of this guy, but knowing how he feels about his muslim brethren and all, and his quest to destroy our successful capitalism system that sustains us all, Im pretty darn sure he only acted because he had too. This man is no leader. He is the puppet of the democratic party, and will do whatever they tell him to do. Leadership is not in him, and he has proven that over and over. He is just the face piece, the figure head of the democrats. Thats it. He is no leader.

    • Ken

      This just in: newly released video of the raid last week:

      http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/1101.html

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Ken,
        Probably both progs!!!

      • Patty

        He-he, Ha-ha, Ho-ho. Funny. Ah, Can you mix me another cocktail?

    • Frank

      Wrong on all counts.
      1) A “bleeding heart liberal” is not one who seeks to not have innocent people killed. A “bleeding heart liberal” is one who wants a guilty person not punished. As in anti-death sentences.
      2) Lincoln did not seek to give the black man a vote. He sought to keep the union together thus to paraphrase him “If I have to free all the slave to save the union I would do it, if I free none of the slaves to save the union I would do it.” Lincoln was not a slave loving liberal. Oh right, he started the GOP.
      3) Really, he turned on his pastor, he’s turned on his grand-mother, he’s turned on fellow democrats that don’t agree with him.

      Obami is the greatest threat to this nation since WW II.

      • JUKEBOX

        Don’t forget that the Northern states were the ones that pushed the 3/5 vote law for slaves, because they were afraid of the South’s larger population.

    • Barney Murrell

      The ignorance in some of these posting indicates many conservatives must have flunked kindergarten.

      Republican plutocrats have greatly increased their wealth through lower capital gains and marginal tax rate cuts. As of 2004, Table 11a of the Federal Reserve paper located on page 29 at http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/oss/oss2/papers/concentration.2004.5.pdf, reports on the net worth of the following income groups:

      Wealth percentile group (0-50) NETWORTH Share is 2.5%.
      Wealth percentile group (50-90) NETWORTH Share is 27.9%
      Wealth percentile group (90-95) NETWORTH Share is 12.0%
      Wealth percentile group (95-99) NETWORTH Share is 24.1%
      Wealth percentile group (99-100) NETWORTH Share is 33.4%

      Moreover, in their desire for more wealth the super wealthy who control the Republican Party have set out to bankrupt America on purpose in order to get their hands on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and force workers into depending on Wall Street Bankers for their 401(k) retirement plans.

      Conservatives Grover Norquist (Americans for Tax Reform) and Milton Friedman (economist) have both advocated tax cuts to create deficits in order to keep down government spending beneficial to the lower economic classes – who make up the bulk of American military personal.

      A 12/28/04 libertarian Cato Institute article (www.cato.org/dailys/12-28-04.html) defines the crux of Norquist’s idea of purposely creating deficits when it stated: “Tax hawks like Grover Norquist, of Americans for Tax Reform, maintain that we should “starve the beast”: create pressure on Congress to reduce spending by cutting the government’s intake of taxes and running up deficits. This is the approach prescribed last year by Milton Friedman and Gary Becker, both Nobel Prize-winning free-market economists, in separate Wall Street Journal op-eds.”

      President Bush’s Iraq and Afghanistan wars served conservative “starve the beast” plans by his refusal to pay for them by cutting instead of raising taxes. In fact, Bush became the first president in U.S. history that borrowed money to pay for an American war. (Forbes –
      http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/25/shared-sacrifice-war-taxes-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html)

      Also, Bush’s tax cut plans were based on an accounting “sunset gimmick” designed to hide the real cost of it by 310%. The conservative Wall Street Journal outed Bush’s tax cut lies in a May 19, 2003, article titled, “Caution: Bush Tax Cuts are Bigger Than They Appear” (http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB105329261169770200,00.html?mod=politics%5Fprimary%5Fhs).

    • Dorothy Jones

      Jeremy are you sure you go to school? No one asked you if you worked for Livingston.

    • Conservative at Birth

      Then, you are a dupe, just like all of those in Nazzi Germany, Bolshevik Russaia, Castro’s Cuba, Cavez’s Vemeazuala, or Mao’s China. Need I say more.

  • Michael J.

    Robert Ringer,
    Thank You, your words echo the thoughts rattling around in my head in a pull no punches fashion that is quite refreshing. Carry on sir.

    • http://MSN.com Alice

      Only Ron Paul can defeat Obama, the others are worthless Globalists like Obama.

      • Omawazzi

        I like Ron Paul, but the reality is that no-one will defeat Obama.

        • DaveH

          You’re right. He will defeat himself. I’ve never before known a president to step on so many toes.

          • JeffH

            I would love to see a Paul-Bachmann ticket. I truly believe Michelle Bachmann to be a serious contender and a real American conservative that would strengthen the battle to remove Obama. Like Ron Paul, I don’t believe that anybody “owns” her.

          • DaveH

            That would be the first time in my life that I would vote for a Republican President. Needless to say, I doubt I could ever vote for a Democrat.

        • wandamurline

          Allen West will defeat Obama…we are currently working to get him to become a candidate. Would pay money to see a debate between these two.

          • Sallybe

            Wanda, can you give us more info on what you are doing to draft Allen West? The Texas Tea Partiers are trying to spread the word about him also. There is a Draft Allen West for President page on Facebook. Is that what you’re talking about? Let’s combine forces! He is the perfect candidate for our times.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          And you know that how.

        • BKWsr

          yes he can if we join to gether and VOTE.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Are you nuts? The guy is unelectable at this point. Do you really think America is that stupid enough to repeat their mistake from 2008? Truth be told, I dont think his own party wants him to run for re-election, but if he insists, they wont force him out, because they dont want to get labeled. But I dont think it matters who runs against him, its all over with but the crying for this guy.

          • Mike in MI

            Hey Bebs -
            Who says they want him to run for election? Don’t be too surprized if they pull a JFK on O’BathHouseBumBlaster, blame it on one of the Independent Congressmen and then make Ol’ Biden-m’-time President-for-Life in memory of a brief period of heaven on earth with our Messiyer Obama. And all the Obamaholics will lift a glass to old times and install JOE with His new name attached: S-T-A-L-I-N
            Then he’ll send us all off for an Arctic vacation to rebuild and refreeze the damage done to polar bear habitat through Habitat Fir-Inhumanity.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            The smartest thing Obama ever did Mike, was to take the insurance policy of Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton around him. That pretty much insured he would stay around, because nobody, and I mean nobody with a brain wants either of them three. Thought it couldnt get worse than this guy? Think again. All 3 of them would make it worse, and this guy is horrible. Im sure you’ll agree.

          • Mike in MI

            Beberoni- Your touche’..on moi. I give. You win.

      • Dan

        I wish I was as confident as you that Obummer will lose …BUT there are to many government entitleists that smell their cash cow leaving…and to many crooked union members and bosses that have been paid off. I am a low level Republican and I will campaign for and vote for Ron Paul but make no mistake about it. It will be a tough battle. Obummer has to many dillusional loyalists blindly following the messiah. It depresses me how stupid people can be when in his own words he tells us he hates us all, yet they still follow him. Amazing

        • Wayne937

          Please vote for who ever can defeat Obama, Dan.

  • Jon

    Just read the column… Mr Ringer is obviously a very confused man, my sympathies goes to his family.

    In London there is the speakers corner in Hyde park where mad men are allowed to yell funny things like this. Entertainment of sorts. I’m sure there is a place there for mr Ringer.

    • DaveH

      Spare me. Another personal attacking Liberal with no facts to back his position.

      • Wayne937

        DaveH, these are the people we are going to have to ignore as they are stupid in their thinking.

    • http://personalliberty.com frank

      and jon aplace there for1.obama 2.biden 3.pelosi 4. reid 5.al gore 6.piven 7.barney frank etc.etc.etc.!.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        1. Loser 2. Loser 3. Loser 4. Loser 5. Loser 6. Loser 7. Loser

    • Gary in Texas

      THEN “JON” GO TO LONDON AND SPEAK !!!

      • Mike in MI

        No, No, Gary, No God please not that -
        We’ve lost enough of our allies from undiplomatic gaffes like that. We just don’t need another war, with the U.K. or anybody else (except for Hawaii) at the moment.
        Why Hawaii? Well, anyplace dumb enough to keep records that O’BathHouseBumBlaster was born there, just by pure evolutionary, survival-of-the-witlessed standards ought to sink beneath its own lava pool.

    • JeffH

      The often heard “baaahhhh”!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Ive read it, and Ive re-read it. I find nothing but the truth here. It appears, you cannot handle the truth Jon. Why are you so afraid of it?

  • Sutekh

    Let’s face it. Obama will go down in history either as the worst president that America ever had, or the last president America ever had. How we respond to his fifth column destruction of our society will determine which of the two terms are applied to him in years to come.

    Sutekh

    • LC

      true

    • DaveH

      Sutekh,
      May I ask what institution you are blogging from?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      It will be sentence # 1, the worst president ever.

  • BrotherPatriot

    Read Jerome Corski’s new book…that says enough.

    But if you need more…try…

    Manchurian Candidate & The Post American President.

    God Bless

  • Louie

    Obumer hath kilt Osumer…..single-handedly, my, my, my!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Louie,
      No, that’s HIS story and he’s sticking to it!!!

  • Thinking About

    Is this the new “doubters” platform? Some just never get it, just keep talking about your attempts to rewrite history while the rest of USA citizens continue to run this great nation, we refuse to allow you to ruin our country.

    • DaveH

      Obviously, the Thinking in your name belies your real disposition.
      Ruin your country? That’s quite a laugh, Liberal.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You have discovered a new word, Thinking. But this is something you are not doing. Great people are not governing this great nation. I would say the basest are doing so. Majority of the population have work to do in their lives.
      Feeling sorry and symphatizing with the undeserving and giving away money produced by working people has brought this country to this low level and near bankruptcy.

      • Mike in MI

        He’s also discovered a new world Nadzieja -
        In this world of his liberals get to spend all their money on whatever they think would be nice to adorn their parlor, body or mini-blitz fruzzenglaze dog, suck up their nose or stick in theirear. Then when it’s al spent they get two written refusals from local lenders and a loan shark. Then still needing mony to maintain themselves in the lifestyle to which they have become accostumed (accustomed?) they expect to go into the back alley, get in a doubled down dirty-dog lotus position and say, “OHM-OHM-OHM” (“OHM” becuse they think it has more energy, but actually it is perverse to that) and

        • Mike in MI

          (cont’d) – and go out to start the spending spree all over again.
          They know they can do this indefinitely because they are loyal followers of “OBAMAMAN” who gives to them out of his “stash”, from each according to his votes, to each accordig to his ability to declare an Executive Order circumventing the Constitution and giving the finger to God.
          Butt hey! Isn’t that how it’s supposed to be in Liberalityville and the North Pole?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            That is the liberal mantra.

    • Dan

      Are you nuts? Real time unemployment at 22%, spiraling debt, abysmal foreign policy, rampant corruption, Let’s see…. what exactly in the last two years has NOT been a dismal failure other than the small business killing, unconstitutional, corrupt,Obummer care?

      • Mike in MI

        DAN ! ! !- How dare you speak disparagingly of god’s plan???
        Failure?? FAILURE??? That is exactly what they were intended to do.
        How dare you call that failure…that is by all measures a flaming success. Bet you never succeeded that good at anything. He’ll show you. Just wait til he wins in 2012 and then we tart the rebuilding process — gonna be all liberal businesses, bottom to top. Capitalism not allowed. There’ll be plenty of everything for everybody…you’ll see.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Mike in MI,
          Wake up…WAKE up…WAKE THE HELL UP!!!! you’re dreaming again!!!!

  • http://tuftsmarathonchallenge.com Donald R. Megerle

    Ditto to Michael J:

    ‘Michael J. says:
    May 17, 2011 at 6:30 am
    Robert Ringer,
    Thank You, your words echo the thoughts rattling around in my head in a pull no punches fashion that is quite refreshing. Carry on sir.’

    And I will add….Ringer’s thoughts/words are also ‘rattling around’ in the heart of the United States!

    • JeffH

      Ditto to both of you…I’ll just add to this…….Ringer’s thoughts/words are also ‘rattling around the world and in the heart of the United States

  • http://BobLivingston BobCompton

    Well said, Mr. Ringer!! You posited what so many others have tried to put their finger on, and did so with eloquence and fairness. Mr. Obama is the culmination and epitome of liberalism, and both parties are to blame: the Democrats, for their “money is no object” way of trying to remove the hole they dug by using a bigger shovel: and the republicans, because if they can appear to oppose the hole-digging enough, no one will notice that they have huge shovels, too, and can thus remain in office without actually having to lead. A pox on both their houses! The Tea Party seems to be the only hope for America not changing to Amerika.

    • DaveH

      The Republican Leaders have been complicit in building our Leviathan Government (Consumes 40% of our GDP). That might have been through mistaken policies or they might have been doing what leaders normally do, building their power and perks at the expense of the citizens.

      For Individual Freedom, Personal Responsibility, Limited Government, Free Markets, and Peace — Vote for Libertarians, the Principled Party:
      http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      • Richard2687

        …and the public debt is currently at about 62% of GDP, the highest level since WWII. The implosion is imminent.

  • http://none Floyd Hardee

    Lucifer has blinded many and they will worship Obama and his followers no matter what they do. The bible warns us of the many deceivers that will come in his name. Of course Obama doesn’t really say straight out right that he believes in Christ, or that he does not believe in him. But he does mention during an interview that there are many paths to heaven, which of course is a lie! Christ is the Door and no man cometh before the father except through him!

    His intention is to redistribute the wealth while breaking America. They (the democrats)will buy the votes of those on welfare, those in the unions, the teachers who want to cling to their jobs, and of course government employees. You can hardly blame them for following him. Who wants to lose their job? No one! Who doesn’t want some free hand outs? No one! “Yes we can”, is a familiar slogan. Soon it will be changed to “Yes we have”, then we will have become Slaves Without Chains ruled by fear, and by greed, and by our own stupidity. The death toll for freedom has already begun to ring, but the deaf in Christ can not hear it, and the blind can not see it. But it is here. The pied piper has played his tune and Satan has cast his spell, now they follow him blindly to their ultimate destruction! Only Christ can save the world now! The first of the many vials have been released and already we see the dead and the dying. Already those who can still hear, do hear the wailing and the crying, but most hear only the siren song of The Puppet Master, and like an army of zombies they march behind their leader oblivious to the consequences!

    • Roger

      America will crash and burn when the democraps run out of other people’s money to spend on their re-election social programs.
      Do you really believe the wealthy liberials in Hollywood will maintain their US citizenship and pay obama’s confiscatory income taxes???
      Of course, they won’t. They will renounce their US citizenship, “move” to Europe and expect us to continue to pay to see their movies.
      Save them time, boycotb movie theaters!!!

      • http://www.personalliberty.com Akillion

        Funny, that’s teh same thing the oil execs threatened just last week. While their in the midst of making RECORD PROFITS! Gas is hovering around $100/barrel and they need subsidies. Back in ’05, when it was in the $50/barrel neighborhood, they didn’t need them….guess those vacaction homes tend to add up-huh? Face it people, there has been wealth distribution in this country and its been distributed to the Top 1%…you know those “job-creators”…speaking of which—where are the jobs? The Bush tax cuts are still in effect…….? (crickets)

        • DaveH

          Where were you when they were losing money for years?
          At any rate, the best way to address that problem is to get Government out of the Marketplace. Let the consumers decide who succeeds and who fails, not the Politicians. With Free Markets, if people think they are being gouged, they can refuse the product, or pool their monies to start competing businesses. But that’s not so easy with Politicians and their quest for power and perks involved in the equation.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          So why are you bitching and not producing the same millions that you envy other people from making.

          • eddie47d

            Nadzieja; Why do you bellyache about hard working union workers who may or may not make more money than you? I believe you are the envy queen.The oil executives pay themselves extremely well and still want subsidies from the tax payer.

          • DaveH

            The subsidies are wrong but they get 1/10 the subsidies that are being given to alternate energy companies. Government shouldn’t be picking and choosing the winners with taxpayer money.

          • DaveH

            Where did Nadzieja bitch about hard working Union members, Eddie?

            By the way, “hard-working Union members” is an oxymoron, Eddie. The hard workers don’t need Unions.

          • eddie47d

            Dave H; She did on a previous post and yes union workers are hard workers irregardless of what you say.

          • karolyn

            Dave, My ex father-in-law was a longshoreman and worked very hard.

          • DaveH

            There are hard workers in any group of people, but there are fewer in a Union environment because their fellow workers discourage it to keep them from looking bad.
            I’ve been there. When 18 and working at a cement plant, it drove the Union guys crazy that I worked so hard. But when somebody is paying me, I like to please them. I’m thankful for their employment, and though occasionally I couldn’t take my co-workers nonsense anymore, I would never disparage the people who actually gave me a chance to earn some money from them. I don’t look gift-horses in the mouth.

          • Mike in MI

            Eddie47d – what a piece of work…gagckuguk
            I worked on a union line in a Flint, MI Buick Body plant years ago.
            I worked hard enough so I wa told to slow down.
            Then I was told to slow down “or else”
            Then I went to my car after my shift and had a couple of flat tires…slashed. There were some thugs with tools glowerring at me during the first part of the fix it.
            I watched guys purposely screw the pooch because the line had been running about a week without a stop. Shut down a whole big plant so they could sit on their gluteus maximus or sleep (hidden).
            Now Flint’s a ghost town and Michigan has been gutted for 10 years.

            THANKS YOU UNION SCUZZBAGS. ENJOY YOUR VACATIONS NOW. YOU POOR BABIES, WORKIN’ SO-o-oo HARD. TSK,TSK…tsk.

          • eddie47d

            That is your experience Mike and I have not seen that. My dad was in the union 35 years and 40 years for myself.

        • Omawazzi

          Akillion, you are sooo right!

        • http://personalliberty.com rchick

          Oil companies do not receive subsidies. The only perk they receive is that they can write off expenses right away instead of amortizing them. That’s it, baby. Their tax rate is either equal to or higher than that of the normal corporate rate. It’s really easy, isn’t it, to just repeat the crap that the lamestreet media puts out there! Why not try to vet information and get the real facts?

          Why wouldn’t oil be at $100 a barrel? This administration has indicated that it doesn’t mind that the price of gas go up; in fact, it was hoping for and supporting it. Wouldn’t you invest in a product if you knew that the American government supports it being at a high price? It’s a win-win no brainer investment, for those who have money, that is.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          The way I look at the oil companies, which you so freely demonize, is that they are running a business and selling a product, and if you dont like the product, dont buy it. Its pretty simple. Ride a bicycle, walk, run, whatever. You act like they are forcing you. Do I like the cost of a gallon of gas? No, no I dont. But its my decision whether I want to pay it or not. Government taxes make up the lions share of the cost at the pump, whether you want to understand that or not. Just as I cannot demonize Walmart or any other successful business, because it is their business to sell a product and make money, and evidently they are doing a good job of it. Now, you see, if we didnt have such a large government to pay for, and didnt have all these social programs to pay for, you know, the ones the democrats keep growing and expanding, maybe we wouldnt have to have the living crap taxed out of us, and we would have more money in our pockets to pay for gas. Me, I bought a fuel efficient car and it takes the sting out of it. And often I choose to walk places and ride my bike. But I cant demonize them for being successful. In fact, Im sick and tired of success being demonized in this country, and for failure being rewarded. That is a big source of our current problems right now, people being held accountable for their actions, and instead are rewarded by taking from us working folks and giving to those who refuse to. Im tired of it. Try demonizing them for awhile, they are the ones taking out of your pocket, and you dont have a choice in that.

    • http://www.personalliberty.com Akillion

      Christ these! All you hypocritical American Christians give me the flux! Lincoln, as well as every other President back then, was racist. I mean, after-all, the white race is the exceptional race, right? And you guys cringe at the thought of affirmative action when it used to be “understood” that the white race was “superior”, wth?!? Obama is playing a damn good hand with the cards he was dealt. Osama was killed, files and documents were recovered and we did it like true heroic warriors. He didn’t go into another country, capture their leader, and stand under a “mission accomplished” banner. The right wants him to just “move-on” and stop gloating like he captured somebody who evaded taxes. Had Reagan not got us on a path of spending money that we don’t have, the country would be in far better shape. Before Reagan deemed Americans as exceptional and government the problem, we spent what we had and we actually strived to “do something” before we deemed ourselves exceptional.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Detroit.

      • BKWsr

        Like I said in my previous post on this artical. anyone who disagrees with the pres. is obviously racist, Confused, and unable to tie their own shoes, but it seams I left one out, a christian fanatic also. So I ask why are you a fanatic because you believe in god? while I am at it. The Republican party does have some major issues, But at least the people who support the party are trying to weed the the problems out. Something I cannot say for the Democrats. Ya’ll create stories or out right lie to cover up their mistakes.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Obviously you have me confused with someone that thinks that throwing the race card lends vallidity to your statement.However anyone with a brain gets that it is only a ploy because of the weakness of your stance.You have no valid point or you wouldnt try to throw an ad hominem attack towards me.Try again my little fish….but dont get hooked.

          • BKWsr

            Cawman my comments weren’t about you, (If you are talking about me).I was commenting on Akillion. I AM NOT the one who is throwing the race card any where, But only pointing a finger at those who do. For they are the ones who are unable to carry on a coversation. I believe a man is what he is, and should be proud of it. If someone does not like me for my skin color or what ever else, oh well thats their problem. I do not judge another buy those terms. I judge them by their actions, and what they say. As to being the little fish in the big scary pond, Oh yes, but with big teeth, and nasty temperament.

        • Cawmun Cents

          After fully reading your statement I retract my reply and appologize.

          • BKWsr

            (eh) I did the same. I did not see the retraction. oh well actually most of you comments I agree on.

      • JeffH

        Akillion attacks the “christians”! Nothing new or unexpected from a Marxist/socialist/communist minded liberal.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Your barking up the wrong tree. Reagan was the best thing that ever happened to this country. He had things going so well, that it took Slick Willy 6 years of playing with cigars to screw it up, only to leave us with a huge recession his last two years. And gee, you talk about the hand he was dealt. When Bush took over and stepped into Slick Willy’s mess, what did he do? Rolled up his sleeves and went to work. In less than 2 years, he had the economy rolling pretty smooth. Now, lets get real. Enter your boy Obama. Over 2 years in, he has escalated unemployment from 4.5 to over 10 percent and growing. The only jobs he has created are government jobs. He spent more money is first 8 months in office, than any administration had spent in history, and has nothing to show for it, other than the GM and Chrysler corporates and the unions fighting over how to get the money he gave them. He has escalated one war, started another, and mind you, he violated the constitution by not having congressional approval to go into Libya, but I know, thats all ok if your a democrat and the liberal press protects you. My gosh, they would be cricifying a Republican or Liberatarian had they done this, and right fully so, but Obama gets a pass. Why? Well Pal, you brought up race. Seems the old double standard still is alive and well, and as long as their are Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons around, racism will be alive and well. That is the only thing keeping it alive, those who are looking for an excuse. A black man is president pal. There are no more excuses. If he can do it, anyone else can to. I mean, since you so readily brought up race, lets see here. A black man is president. The highest paid woman on TV is a black woman, Oprah Winfrey. The highest paid actor is a black man, Will Smith. The highest paid athletes, Lebron James and Kobe Bryant are black men. So I have to assume, that if we are a racist nation, then we are not doing a very good job at it. Not if were racist against blacks that is. Think about it. If racism is still perpetuated, I guarantee you it isnt coming from my white butt.

    • DaveH

      The thing is that we the people have sat idly by for many decades while Big Government proceeded to ensnare more and more people with their vote-buying largesse with our own money, and the Government educational propaganda machine of public schooling.
      Now, thanks to that apathy, and the large portion of the population who get their money directly from Government, it may be too late to turn it around.
      But if it is possible, we need to work hard to get real Freedom of Educational Choice for our children, so we can get them out of the Government Propaganda schools and into institutions where they can learn reality and truth. That’s how the Liberals (anybody who loves Big Government) plied their trade over the years, patiently brainwashing and dumbing down our children.
      Especially important is that we be vigilant and know the difference between School Choice and Educational Choice. Read this article to understand what I mean:
      http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=13078

  • Fly By Night

    Did Obama set out to distroy America The Beautiful(the land that I love)?

    • eddie47d

      No I think Wall Street,Hedge Fund Managers,NAFTA,wars in Middle East,BP,etal did a mighty fine job of destroying America the Beautiful.

      • DaveH

        Big Government (which Eddie loves) is destroying America. Want proof? What better proof than actual experience?
        Study the countries in this list ranked from least Government involvement in their economies to most Government involvement. You can pick the country names to get the particulars:
        http://heritage.org/index/ranking

        Look up the living conditions and economies of those with the least Government and those with the most to see some reality.
        It’s so easy to bash those we love to hate the most, but the reality is that as our Government grows bigger, so do our problems.

        • JeffH

          DaveH, you know you’re wasting your time with 47Stupid but your words aren’t wasted on anyone that wants to learn.

          You can’t fix stupid but you can educated those that choose to learn.
          Again, it’s about choice.

          • DaveH

            I know Eddie is a hopeless case. I post those comments for others who might potentially be poisoned by his misinformation.

          • eddie47d

            Nasty Jeff is still clueless and must fondle the banksters in his dreams. Hoping for a payout. Go back to bashing the real workers of America while you fawn all over the crooks at the top. Then you try to have the audacity to blames some secretive elites when they are one in the same with the corporate scoundrels.

          • JC

            eddie47d says:
            May 17, 2011 at 6:06 pm
            Nasty Jeff is still clueless and must fondle the banksters in his dreams. Hoping for a payout.
            _________________________________________________________________

            You’re a seriously sick man eddie, not to mention a communist and union scumbag. We’re (conservatives) sick of carrying your lazy communist asses through life.

          • eddie47d

            You’ve never carried me anywhere JC and I wouldn’t let a puke like you come near me. Go crawl into Jeff’s hole you low life.

    • Barney Murrell

      The ignorance of the people who post here is amazing. If they had ANY understanding of the world they live in then they would know the alternative to living in a westernized country – and its so-called “socialism” for the little guy – is life in a 3rd world country.

      From the chaos of Somalia to drug-gang infested countries like Mexico and Columbia; and a mini-police state like Peru where a few plutocrats control everything and all others are extremely poor and kept in line by a brutal criminal justice system. Thus Conservative-Libertarian anti-government philosophy is nothing more than a desire for poverty and starvation.

      Thus, evil in this country comes from web sites like this one that cater to a very large group of non-thinkers who promote freedom for Republican plutocrats to rape, rob, and pillage the very people who post here.

      For example:
      Between 1979 and 2007 (Reagan and GW Bush) taxpayer income changed per Congressional Budget Office Data as follows:

      * Income of the wealthiest top 1 percent increased from 9.3 to 19.4 percent of all income
      * Income of the top 20 percent increased from 45.5 to 55.9 percent
      * The bottom 80 percent’s share of all U.S. income went down
      * And by end of Bush’s presidency the national debt increased to $10+ trillion.
      cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2010/pre-tax_income_shares.pdf)

      Also, for another example, see “Wealth Disparities in U.S. Approaching 1920s Levels,” seekingalpha.com/article/189649-wealth-disparities-in-u-s-approaching-1920s-levels?source=article_sb_popular.

      And IRS data, “The 400 Individual Income Tax Returns Reporting Highest AGI… 1992-2007,” http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/07intop400.pdf.

  • doc

    It is all George Bush’s fault! Right?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Im just wondering how long they can beat that horse, before they find someone else to blame for their short comings? How do people go through life, failing and failing again, and have the audacity to blame others, instead of looking in the mirror and seeing the cause of their problems. Its unbelievable, and our politcal correctness lets them get away with it. Liberalism is a dangerous, dangerous thing.

  • Doc Sarvis

    I agree with the comments that Jon just posted – so much misdirection in this article. As for the quote in President Obama’s book (which I have read); I understood that he felt like a spy since at that time in our country’s history VERY few black men or women were employed at such a position. That fact is different now but still too rare.

    The redistribution of wealth the author so likes to blame President Obama about has been going on for decades – and greatly accellerated in the last ten years. The redistribution of wealth in these recent times has been overwhelmingly been in an “upward” direction. Concentrating money/wealth/assets to the very top 1-2% of our population. Thus squeezing the 98% who work so hard for themselves and this country.

    One other (of the many) falacys as stated in this article; “can you name me a Left-wing leader, at any time in history, who was averse to killing either friend or foe? The Left has a history of employing violence. Nothing new there.” Easy since this is a false assertion. Of the many, the first to come to mind are Gandhi and Jesus.

    • Cawmun Cents

      If Christ was a leftist…not that there was anything like that in his day…but for the sake of showing you the fallacy of that statement…here goes.There intheBible was a crippled man who desired to get to the pool for some water.He beseeched Christ for help.Now at this point is where we see whether Christs reaction is left or right.What was Christs reaction?Did he help the man get to the pool?Did he shout at the bystanders about social justice and have them help the man?No…..he told the man who was crippled to get up and get himself to the pool.Not exactly a leftist caring social justice kind of thing to do was it?Nope.The man was healed.He made it to the pool,but he had no societal engineering to help him.He did it on his own.And Christ had him do it that way.So you see it is impossible for Christ to have been a leftist or a liberal.Because there is noway a liberal wouldnt have immediately created a bureaucracy to help get the man to the pool.-CC.

      • LC

        You just made my day.

      • John

        Cawmun Cents & Lewis,
        Another Amen! Throughout history ALL gubmnts have been or became corrupt.
        There IS a Higher Power, who alone deserves our worship as the Lord and Savior.
        If we lived as Christ did there would be NO need for government, it is only sin that destroys liberties and peace.
        Agape

      • RickyRico

        Hey Caumon,
        Jesus healed the man instantly. He did not go into the pool. Here are the scriptures FYI
        John 5:1-15 (King James Version)

        After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches.
        In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?

        The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

        The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
        Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk? And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
        Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

        15The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

        Have a nice day,
        RickyRico

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Christ told him to get up,and walk. He didn’t form governmental agencies to assist the guy. The man had to do it himself.

          • Ken

            Only at the word of Jesus Christ did the man derive healing and energy to take up his bed and walk. It is really not our own hand that will heal us or empower us. We are under a banker’s curse in USA called “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. It will take the power of The Holy Spirit that only comes from Jesus Christ to break this curse. And, after it is broken, then the curse must be replaced with the healing of the Word of God the New Testament Bible.

          • karolyn

            We can all heal ourselves.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You are wrong karolyn, so wrong. You show me a person who says they have the power to heal someone, and Ill show you the devil himself. Anyone blessed with the power to heal, will always say that God did it, that they were just a vessel. We cannot heal ourselves karolyn, we are sinful man. We destroy ourselves. Christ saves us.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Your confusion is in that you do not see the sequence of events.It does not say that Jesus healed him and then commanded him to rise.If that were true it would plainly state it that way.He asked the man to get up.And because the man had faith,and stood up,he was healed.It requires faith to be healed by Christ.That is where your eisegesis of the scripture is flawed.-CC.

          • Ken

            If Jesus had not spoken the man would still be left there, laying by the pool. Only by the word first spoken will the USA be delivered. Only if USA responds by obeying as Jesus says in New Testament will USA by healed.

          • Cawmun Cents

            If that were true then how could the statement,”By his stripes we are healed”,be true.It would have had to say,”by his word we are healed”.Jesus did not heal the man by his word and then expect the man to have faith,but rather he told the man to stand and show his faith whereby he was healed.You must have faith to be healed,it doesnt come by words.If you are a word of faith believer then we are in for a long debate in which I will use scripture to prove that doctrine a false teaching.Witness the servant of the Roman officer.Jesus was astonished at the Roman officers faith.But the Roman officer said that he had faith based on Jesus office,not His word.If Jeus were the King of Kings and the Son of God,then the Roman officer understood that He could make it happen as a result of His being who He was supposed to be,not as a result of Him saying who He was.It was not the Romans words that astonished Jesus,but his faith.

      • Roy Major

        Hey, Cawmun, I heard a brief that said that Jesus was a middle of the roader because he caught it from both sides.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Actually he was crucified by people who relied on the words that were written into Jewish law.Instead of relying on faith as their Father had commanded Abraham to do.

          • EltonJ

            Jesus was crucified by the Moneychangers. The people he cleansed from the Temple for defiling it. Unfortunately, we never learn and we have those same people running the government today.

          • Ken

            No argument with you Cawmun Cents. My point is that it is the rejection of Jesus Christ in USA by elimination and secularization that has actually gotten us into our predicament as a nation. True Christian Spiritual revival is the only true way out. Jesus is calling first the Church or Body of Christ to this revival and the greater population to repentance through the Church. It is faith in the word that makes it work. You have to by some means hear that by Jesus’ crucifixion you are saved and healed. It is then faith in what you have heard that makes it work.

          • April

            Faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Romans 10:17. Romans 10:14 -21 addresses the subject quoting the Old Testament which was brought forward with the New Covenant.

          • Carlucci

            EltonJ hit the nail on the head.

        • Cawmun Cents

          You know what I mean dont you?Tied up by red tape?Bureaucracy gone amok?Not having confidence in ones own ability,or even God’s ability(faith),but relying on the word of the written law(rules).Big government rules,like Jewish law?Instead of ones personal(faith),that God can get it done.You must in all things rely on Christ for salvation.What you do or say personally has no bearing on your salvation.If you rely on what is written rather than the deed(Christs atonement through the crucifixion),you will be found wanting.That was the very reason why Christ referred to the Pharisees as “whitewashed tombs”.Check it out for yourselves it is all there to be read in the scripture.

          • Ken

            No argument with you Cawmun Cents. My point is that it is the rejection of Jesus Christ in USA by elimination and secularization that has actually gotten us into our predicament as a nation. True Christian Spiritual revival is the only true way out. Jesus is calling first the Church or Body of Christ to this revival and the greater population to repentance through the Church. It is faith in the word that makes it work. You have to by some means hear that by Jesus’ crucifixion you are saved and healed. It is then faith in what you have heard that makes it work.

        • April

          LOL Cute!! But remember Jesus said to fish from the right side of the boat. I like the idea of fishing on the right side of the political boat myself.

          • April

            I just realized that it doesn;t look like it but I was replying to Roy Major’s joke above.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Nice job on that one. I like it. The democrats of today were the Pharisee’s back then, who did their evil little deeds, but in front of people they took all the choice seats where they could be seen, and put on a front for all to see. Meanwhile, they spent their time trying to snare and entrap Jesus, because He was the truth, and they knew the truth was not in them, so they had to attack, attack, attack, and try to trick him into failing. Just like a democrat, instead of seeing the truth and embracing it, they rejected it and blamed others, while patting themselves on the back. When soon, they will all feel the heat of the lake of fire as it consumes them, and that day is coming quick.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Of course Ganhis didn’t kill anyone personally as you tell us. His followers did the job for him.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        My apology. I meant Gandhi the pious.

        • eddie47d

          As opposed to the British masters who subjegated the Indian people?

    • DaveH

      Doc, if you’re talking about Crony Capitalists (both political parties have their favorites), that is one thing.
      But if you’re talking about the Rich in general, you are either purposely lying, or you are just plain ignorant.
      For those who seek the truth:
      http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

    • DaveH

      Gandhi and Jesus? Doc, is that the best you can do?
      On the other hand, there are Stalin, Mao, Castro, Kim Jong-il, and Hitler, to name just the best known Socialist murderers.

      Regimes calling themselves socialist have murdered more than one hundred million people since 1917.

      • JC

        yep, which is 1 hundred million reasons for 1 hundred million Amricans to own at least 1 hundred million guns…never know when you’re going to need them. ;)

      • Skeptic Al

        Wow! One hundred million. They’re catching up with the Christians.

  • http://None Nancy

    Ringer, You must be sleepwalking through Communist Obama’s reign of terror on the American people, and the freedom this country has experienced. You better enjoy your freedom, cause you won’t have it when The Jerk is through with his plans for the USA. God forbid he should get a second term, he has no regard for America, the Constitution or it’s citizens!!!

  • http://Moreexpensive,moreunknowproblems. Lewis Munn

    “By their fruits ye shall know them”

    Seems to me there are more and more fruits appearing in Government, and not a few nuts also. But I fear for the harvest from what we have collectively sown.

    And the degredation of our schools and destruction of our Constitution has been going on a long long time. Slowly, until now. And I would pot forward that Jesus was and is always right!

    • Al Sieber

      Lewis,I second that!!

    • 45caliber

      Lewis:

      “by their fruits we shall know them”

      And the libs wonder why we don’t meekly follow their leaders. After all they SAY all these wonderful things – while we are looking at their fruits of what they do.

      • Carlucci

        You got it. Actions always speak louder than words.

  • don

    The main problem is the “mass media” they can make or break ANY one almost at will! If it were “conservatives” doing just a “small” portion of what this president has done? They would either be so weakened by now,or out of office! (Just passing a health bill with-out letting people read it first would have been enough to kick him out!) As Pelosi said “you will find-out what is in it after you vote on it!

    • Ken

      Political Zionists who are “the Synagogue of Satan” calling themselves “Jews” own the mass media or mainstream media in USA. In the sixties the mainstream media were 70 + outlets of primarily caucasian owners. Today there are but six and all are Political Zionists Jewish owned. This is why the “news” has become propaganda and we have a creature such as Obama and company, (communist) and had Bush and company, (fascist). Things are not what they seem in more ways than one. Look deeper. You might start by reading “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”.

      • Carlucci

        People should read that, along with “Who is Esau-Edom”?

        http://www.seek-info.com/israel.htm

        • April

          Yes! Very interesting info!! The word Kenite is interesting to check out too.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        So your racist against Jews? Do you fear God’s chosen people? Im not jewish, and I dont. Why are you so afraid of them?

  • Omawazzi

    I think this Robert Winger has been hallucinating.
    An incredible amount of ranting and raving over things that just are not the way he is seeing them or wishing them to be.
    This guy is no doubt a Radical Right Wing Extremist.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Shame on you. You can’t come up with a logical response so you name call.

      • Omawazzi

        Well Nad, I just call them as I see them.
        I could come up with a much better response, but on this forum it would only amount to an Exercise of Futility.

        • S.C. Murf

          no you can’t, you have shown us what you have which is nothing

          up the hill
          airborne

          • 45caliber

            SC Murf:

            What unit(s)? I was in the 173rd and the 82nd.

          • S.C. Murf

            Hey 45 the 101st attached to the 1st of the 501st Inf. (screaming eagles). Between tours they had me stationed at Ft. Bragg,nice part of the country. keep the faith brother

            up the hill
            airborne

        • Nadzieja Batki

          So why are you not on the sites that cater to your mindset. Discussions with this group are futile according to you, so why are you here?

          • Jay

            Because people of his similar mindset consider him a bafoon, here he’s considered a pest. He chose to be a pest!

          • Omawazzi

            I receive Bob Livingston’s Newsletter, because I bought a book on Health Care that he wrote.
            It was well written and quite informative.

            However, I don’t share his Political Opinions and I come onto this forum just to see what Baloney the Majority of the Extremists here are ranting and raving about today.
            I find it all quite amusing.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            omawazzi,
            That’s ok, we find your ignorance down right hilarious!!!!

        • DaveH

          Omawazzi says “I could come up with a much better response, but on this forum it would only amount to an Exercise of Futility”.

          Wow, the truth from a Liberal. And why would it be an “Exercise of Futility”? Because we can shoot down the emotional, factless assertions of Liberals every time.

          • eddie47d

            Oh Please Dave H. you’ve never been that good!! You are truly full of the dickins and… alittle more.

          • DaveH

            Well, we’ve heard from the board Harpy, anybody else?

          • JC

            Absolutely right Dave. I’ve never met a Liberal I can’t argue into a corner in about 5 minutes or less by simply going straight to heart of their position and pointing out that its based in immorality and theft. Then they call you names, like the little kids they truly are.

          • eddie47d

            I have nothing on JC and David H. Both are still on top of the heap for name calling except for i41 who is way ahead of both of you.

        • Carlucci

          Omawazzi – I think it was established yesterday that there is someone on this blog who is impersonating other libtards under different names. (Although I really don’t believe Mick the chick falls into that group. Her posts are from the mind of a true conservative).

          If you believe this blog is an exercise of futility, please go somewhere else, like HuffPo.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            omawazzi,
            Yes, please do!!! But be real careful not to disagree with them AT ALL or they will BAN you, unlike here!!!!

    • DaveH

      The Liberal buzz word “Extremist”. Is that the best you can do, Omawazzi?
      Who is Extremist, the people who want to take the money of others as if it were their own, or the people who want to keep their own hard-earned money?
      Who is Extremist, the people who want to make their own choices, or the people who want to make those choices for them?

      You are an Extremist, Omawazzi.

  • 2centsworth

    If Obama is elected again, America and Americans will be living in HELL……..right here on earth. The name Christ means “the annointed one”. In the bible Jesus said in my NAME you shall cast out devils, heal the sick, ………. and His name is JESUS. What he meant was when you pray, pray like this: “In the name of JESUS”….whatever you do, don’t let Obama get elected President again….turn the tables on the Devils of this world, and help all the brainwashed, tv addicted souls to have the blinders removed from their eyes, and save and deliver all the lovers of the REAL truth, and don’t let them be moved!!!

    • Omawazzi

      Speaking of those Brainwashed by the Television News Media, it sounds as though you’ve been watching to much of Fox News.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        How do you know what anyone watches?

        • eddie47d

          N.B. How do YOU know what a liberal watches Ms smarty pants? You make many conjectures about people.

          • DaveH

            Could you show us an example?

          • eddie47d

            Perfect example of someone who slanders someone else and the conjecture king pops up.

        • JeffH

          Nadzieja Batki, 47Stupid just accused you of using “conjecture” when you made none in your response to Omawazzi. Now I’d suggest that 47Stupid is the biggest violator of the use of conjecture.

          con·jec·ture [ kən jékchər ]
          guesswork: the formation of judgments or opinions on the basis of incomplete or inconclusive information

          something guessed: a conclusion, judgment, or statement based on incomplete or inconclusive information

          unproved theorem: a theorem in science or mathematics that has still to be proved

          Synonyms: guesswork, estimation, guess, inference, speculation, surmise, assumption, supposition

          • eddie47d

            Sorry Jeff I didn’t mean to leave you out of being a name caller king. I guess I could make you the Joker! Always the dependable clown.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            I’ll be the Riddler. Riddle me this: What is Nobummer without a brain??? Answer: Eddie47d!!!!!!!

          • JeffH

            Joe H., now you’ve gone and done it. :)

          • eddie47d

            Ya,Nothing as usual.

      • DaveH

        Sounds like you need to watch more, Omawazzi, especially John Stossel, and Judge Napolitano.

      • Ken

        You sound like you’ve been watching too much MSNBC.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Ken,
          Nah, he watches Sesame street to get his political news!!!

    • Cawmun Cents

      If you do not wish to have Obama elected again you had better trot your candidate out quick.Otherwise get used to seeing more of Barry.

  • http://mmfbsa@centurylink.net twix

    Allen West needs to run for president. He could
    get the voters that bozo thinks he has. Please
    run Mr. West!!

  • wisdom

    Just a note/correction on the GM bondholders. They refused an offer for I believe 70 cents on the dollar. Why? Because they were insured 100% on the dollar by AIG. That’s right, AIG. It was like a triple bailout. AIG, GM, Goldman, and on and on and on. Sadly, it was Bush who started the 780 billion cluster…. Congress, after two years of hating Bush for lying about bombs of mass destruction, pass a bill over 1,000 pages in neck break speed because the man they trust least said the financial sky was falling in????? Robert, please expose the Ivy League cabal. In Restoring The American Dream, which I have not read since the 70′s, you pointed out that the game was played above the Dem v Reb distraction. At least that’s what I took home. Bushes boys teed up this massive spending.

  • H. Kirk Rainer

    As far as diversions (from the matters at hand), this article’s attention to the two-party system–with criticism aimed at the Left–falls into this category.

    Who’s on Left, Who’s Right, and Who’s Moderate? How does one dicipher such distinctions when the general populous is misinformed-misdirected from the plain truth that each and all are bascially politicians…preoccupied with their reelection.

    Stop pretending partisanship; focus on the reality of the matters at hand.

    • 45caliber

      The real question is not who they are but what they are. What exactly is a “moderate” for instance?

      It is supposed by most of us that it means someone in the middle. But I think that “middle” point has shifted in politics away from the middle of the citizens. To me, a “moderate” as identified by politicians is someone who is in the middle on the left side. Too many of the politicians in BOTH parties are on the left. They simply use different definitions of what a moderate and a right leaning person are. And those definitions aren’t ones most of us would recognize.

  • 2centsworth

    The truth is a hard thing to find when people have been lied to their whole life and the REAL truth has been suppressed. I just watched a long youtube video, and after finishing, I was impressed that everyone should have a look at it, so they can also use it as a basis of forming their decisions…..it is from an Awake and Award Conference and the speaker is Alex Collier….http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR46QjXjLH0&feature=related Another thing that came off that was related to this…I can’t give this to you, but if you’ll listen carefully, you will know how to find it. When the student is ready to learn, the teacher will appear.

    • 45caliber

      You’ve tried to arouse our curiosity but you failed with me. The “long” video did it since you didn’t tell anything else to arouse my interest.

  • James

    If Osama bin Laden was indeed the mastermind of the 9-11 attack on America, then why wouldn’t killing him be mandated, whatever his racial origin? It could also be asked: Why didn’t President Bush kill him when he had the chance? Why did Secretary of War Rumsfeld insist that we just can’t find bin Laden, when it was simultaneously being reported that bin Laden was in a Pakistan hospital?

    • Carlucci

      Because this whole Bin Laden thing is a big fat hoax. The neighbor next door to the villa where it supposedly all went down said it was all a big lie. Nothing happened. I’m more inclined to believe that than any bullshit that comes out of the white house.

  • LiarsMustBeDefeated

    Robert Ringer has written an excellent piece but I have a BIG problem with it. It is focussed on Obama when he is only ONE PART of the problem. Once he got in power it was MORE BIG government. Bush of the NWO was also about MORE BIG government, though I have to admit Obama is worse. It this sense they are BOTH to be viewed with fear. This country (that WAS so great) will be destroyed if we don’t put more HONEST and PATRIOTIC leaders in office. People with REAL honesty and REAL patriotism. The crooks and liars MUST GO.

    • 45caliber

      For once I’ll agree with you.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Naomi

    Referring to comments about Ron Paul. Did you people hear his remarks on the Fox Network debate? He wants to close Guantanamo, taking aim at enhanced interrogation, etc., etc. Where does he want to detain foreign and domestic terrorists? In the U.S.? So they can spread their hate to other prisoners? They have no rights under our Constitution, as enemy combatants. This is the Liberal stance. That was a deal breaker for me. No Ron Paul for me.

    • DaveH

      So, if a person is not a citizen of our country, they do not deserve the kind of fairness as outlined in the Constitution?
      Are you saying you are a Liberal? In which case, I would ask, since when do Liberals give a dang about the Constitution?

      • 45caliber

        DaveH:

        As a prisoner of war or as a terrorist who is not considered a soldier, they do not have any rights under our Constitution. Their rights come solely from the Geneva Convention. And terrorists are excluded deliberately from those rights. So, no, I don’t worry about their “rights” here. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care if Gitmo is closed or not. It makes sense to me to keep it open. But I do believe that those terrorist prisoners we capture should be kept in the country where they are captured. And when we are through with them, we should turn them over to the government there. If the government releases them, then we know which side it is on and what to do about them. A good – and simple – test.

        • DaveH

          In my book, 45, people are people, and citizens or not their deeds need to be proven. Do you really trust the words of people in Government? I don’t.
          http://theeprovocateur.blogspot.com/2008/12/sociopathic-politician.html

          • 45caliber

            When you capture them in the act of shooting at you, what more is there to prove?

          • Jeep

            WTH? DaveH, have you ever met these “people”? I have. They are animals dedicated to the distruction of anyone or anything that does not follow their belief system. They are not stupid and have more than just “suicide” tactics at their disposal. But they would tear your family apart in the name of Allah, given the chance. Why? Because you are not “one of them”. You cannot coddle, or even coexist with them. There is no negotiating with them. Their ultimate objective is the destruction of everything you hold dear. We can argue about how this hatred came about, but it is undeniably there now. Dave, they do not think of you as human, but as a subspecies that should be destroyed or at the least exploited. There is no way to change this, it is what it is.

      • BKWsr

        DaveH, The libs love to chant about the constitution when it suits their purpose, or to say how antiquated it is,

  • Tore

    Ignore the US Constitution and we will all suffer even Globally.

    • Edward Chandler

      That dumb bastard didn’t even know they were going after Bin Laden . The Sec.of State and defense and Panetta had to keep it from him until it was over,because he would not give the oder to get him. I have often wondered what Country he thinks he is President of. He may be the President of the U.s. BUT HE IS DESTTROYING America as fast as he can. Its too bad we don’t have a congressand senate that doesn’t have enough guts to impeach him and try him for treason fraud and many other crimes

      • MaryLovesGod

        Edward, that’s because Obama doesn’t stand alone! They are all in it together – destroy the US as it is and make it a socialist country…take away all our liberties which the ignorant people are too happy to give give up (liberty).

        • 45caliber

          Mary:

          Have you ever considered WHY these rich people would want a socialist/Communist country here? Take the USSR. The ONLY wealthy people in the country were those who were in power. And they controlled who got to be in power very carefully. Right now, it is possible that someone with a moderate income in the US to run for office (like Ron Paul) or create a business that might make him rich. In the USSR it was impossible.

          Those now in power want it that way here. After all, the wealth in a socialist state must go somewhere so they believe it must go to them – alone.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Good call Edward. The only reason he didnt voice opposition to it, was he knew he couldnt, because the American people wanted this guy to be ended once and for all. He could not go against that.

  • Omawazzi

    Dave, Dave, Dave it appears that you run on emotions.
    Of course you would shoot down anything that you disagree with, because you have your mind made up and no truth presented to you that went against what you believe would ever be accepted by you.
    This is why I don’t respond with facts and figures to you people on this forum, because as I said, it would be an Exercise of Futility.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Amazing, you have learned a new catch phrase “exercise in futility”. What group told you to keep using that expression at every chance you got?

      • Omawazzi

        So you like that huh?
        I come upon that expression long ago while I was attending Indiana University.

        • 45caliber

          Really? You came up with that expression? You should charge the Democrat Party a fee for their continued use of it then. Even at $1 a use, you’d be a billionare by now.

          • Omawazzi

            You should read my statement again.
            I said I came upon the expression, not that I came up with it.
            You need to look more closely and perhaps try harder to think more clearly.

          • DaveH

            Read your statement? What do you ever say that has any basis of fact or substance, Omawazzi?

          • Carlucci

            This guy sounds like he comes from jovi’s camp. I wonder if they are all sitting around in a little moveon.org or ACORN office…

          • DaveH

            Maybe, Carlucci, but from personal encounters, I can say that there really are a lot of clueless people out there. The Leaders love that fact.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Omawazzi,
            No, actually you said you “Come” across it!! Doesn’t read like a person that attended College!!!!

      • eddie47d

        N.B. Kinda of like Time and his insistence of using the term Monkey tools. At least exercise in futility has a much better fit on either side of the political spectrum. Then again Monkeys are rampant on both sides too.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Omawazzi, let me tell you something, maybe it will hit home, maybe it wont. Im a Christian. Dave is an atheist. Do you know the difference? Now, having said that, I respect Dave’s post very much, and he is a very intelligent guy, and his posts are well thought out, and he backs what he says with facts. Sometimes we disagree, but there is a level of respect there always. Seems with you liberals, that is a thing of the past. You want everyone to think like you do, or they are not worth your time. Come to think of it, much like the muslim extremists that want us dead. No one elses opinion counts but theirs. Islam and liberals have that in common. But your posts here have all been argumentive, without showing any truths or facts, just your opinions, while you lambast anyone who thinks different than you. So having read your posts, and having read Dave’s posts, I assure you, Dave’s intelligence compared to yours is like putting a Rhodes scholar up against a 1st grader. And Dave is the Rhodes Scholar. Have a good day.

  • MaryLovesGod

    wonder why Donald Trump back out? He couldn’t have been bribed since he has more money than most

    • Omawazzi

      Trump backed out because he knew that there was no way for him to beat Obama.
      Obama made him look like the fool he is over the Birther thing.
      Huckabee pulled out because he knows he can’t beat Obama either.
      None of them can.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        omawazzi,
        Actually, you have it kinda backwards! Trump made nobummer look like a helpless little girl by making him do what he didn’t want to do!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Again, a truth check for a blind liberal. For one, Trump was never in it to pull out of it. Trump was getting free advertisement for himself, and that is what he does. If you dont know that by now, your not paying attention. Seeing that you support democrats, that is obviously true. Second, Huckabee pulled out, because he is a good man, and values his life and his family and didnt care to have the liberal idiots come dig through every piece of garbage just to not find something, then fabricate stories like they did against Sarah Palin, and then have to spend thousands if not a million dollars defending himself against false charges. You and I both know its true, and those that fabricated their stories agains Sarah Palin and her family should be in jail. But then again, so should Barney Frank, Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelick from the bank scam, and they arent either.

    • Ken

      D Trump is a generational part of the Masonic and Illuminati gang. His assignment was to pose as presidential candidate, speak out what common sense and gut tells us about Obama on what was becoming the glaring issue, his birth issues, so that issue along with Jerome Coersi’s new book on Obama’s ursurpation of presidency could be swept away with a gigantic fantasy show, The bin Ladin kill; a man who was said by many authorities to have been dead many years ago. (the man they killed was more likely Osama Been Misfortunate rather than Osama bin Ladin.)

      • Omawazzi

        My my, that is quite a fantasy your feeding.

      • 45caliber

        Ken:

        I really believe it was Bin Laden who was killed. BUT … I also believe that he was kept around until someone in government felt they needed some attention away from what they were trying to do. And it worked, at least to some extent.

      • April

        This would not surprise me Ken. I have heard similar accountsthat seem to fit into some of this puzzle

    • 45caliber

      MaryLovesGod:

      The ones who have the most money are the ones more likely to take bribes since Money is their God. It does cost more to bribe them but it is easier to do.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      It was for publicity, and publicity only. The Donald lives for that you know.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Beberoni,
        Yup, very true!! his show will pull down a 4 rating for awhile and he will make a little more money!!!

  • http://earthlink.com connie eiland

    I hope all americans wake up before He completly distroys our Great Country.He has sit out to distroy our country, why can’t people see that.

  • Donald

    Ringer is as paranoid as they come. Talk aout the Conspiracy Theory of History, Ringer sees evil plotters in any and every action taken by the government. One might make a case for incompetence, but what Ringer has to offer is so much hokum.

    • Ken

      Well spoken, like a loyal guv ment agent!

      • Donald

        Better than a disloyal government agent!

        • Ken

          You’re doing a good job. Maybe they’ll give you a golden star!

          • Jay

            Ken, Donald is a yellow bellied turn-coat and so is his buddy the goat herder Omawazzi!!!

    • Omawazzi

      I totally agree with you.
      Apparently not everyone is blind on this forum.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You seem to be though.

  • 45caliber

    To the Left, war has always been a distraction to keep people’s attention off what they are really doing. After all, if someone’s child is being shot at, they are less concerned about their next paycheck. And they certainly won’t protest a tax increase or a loss of some freedom if it might aid in keeping that child alive.

  • Merlin

    It has been said that you can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time. the President only has to fool enough of the people enough of the time. As Reagan asked in his campaign, are you any better off than you were four years ago? How many positive changes can you name?

  • http://victoryinamericaday-11210.blogspot.com Bob Uda

    President Barack Hussein Obama (BHO) was a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operative during the time he was supposedly attending Columbia University. During that period, he went to Afghanistan to deal with the drug trade and was a friend of Osama bin Laden (OBL). Like everyone else, he threw OBL under the bus–but this time, he assassinated his friend instead. Some people say BHO murdered his friend OBL. This fact is another reason why he has spent $2 million to hide all of his records including his passports/visas and his Columbia University records, among others. When all of this revelation comes out after the law, under an honest government once again, releases all of his clandestine records, BHO will be an ex-one-term president. However, then, we will be able to try him in federal court and confiscate everything he has stolen including the soul of our nation.

    • eddie47d

      Uda; You certainly are an useful tool for the right. Another wacko has entered their kingdom.

      • http://beforeitsnews.com/stories/by/0000000000007162 Bob Uda

        From my research over the past four years, I have surmised that President Barack Hussein Obama (BHO) was a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operative during the time he was supposedly attending Columbia University. During that period, he traveled to Afghanistan to deal with the drug trade and was a friend of Osama bin Laden (OBL). Like everyone else, he threw OBL under the bus. However, this time, instead, he assassinated his friend OBL. Some people say BHO murdered OBL, which I believe to be true.

        I maintain this belief because BHO and his administration have done away with the Bush administration’s Global War on Terror (GWOT) and have changed it just to Overseas Contingency Operations (OCO). Thus, it is now a bunch of disparate military operations overseas. Later, they called GWOT as Countering Violent Extremism (CVE). Thus, apparently, they do not know what to call it! They now label terrorism as a man-caused disaster. Hence, it is a disaster and not a war. Furthermore, they label terrorists as persons with behavioral issues. Terrorists are now just a bunch of psychos out there.

        Thus, according to BHO and Attorney General Eric Holder, we are not fighting a war. Instead, we are crime fighters involved in international police (Interpol) action. In transforming the GWOT into police action, they now read Miranda Rights to captured enemy combatants (they now call them detainees), plan to incarcerate these detainees in domestic prisons after closing down Gitmo, and try them in civil courts. As can be seen, we are not fighting a war but are just pursuing civilian criminals.

        Therefore, OBL is not a casualty of war. Instead, he is a person the Obama administration has either assassinated or murdered (depending on your viewpoint) because he is a person with behavioral issues involved in a man-caused disaster. He is not an enemy combatant. We should have captured him, read him Miranda Rights, and tried him in civil court in New York City. According to the Obama administration definitions, OBL was not a warfighter; he was an international criminal!

        Obama and his administration are now attempting to assassinate Muammar Gaddafi, the president of Libya! They are also attempting to assassinate U.S. citizen (traitor though he may be) Anwar al-Awlaki instead of capturing him and reading him his Miranda Rights! After all, he is still a U.S. citizen. Obama and his administration are, therefore, assassins and murderers.

        These observations comprise some of the reasons why BHO has spent $2 million of legal fees and payoffs to hide all of his stealthy records including his passports/visas and his Columbia University records, among others. When the law, under an honest government once again, forces the release of all of BHO’s clandestine records, these revelations shall be in full public view, and BHO will be an ex-one-term president. However, then, we will be able to try him in federal court and confiscate everything he has stolen from the American people—in particular, the soul of our nation.

    • 45caliber

      ??????

      I’ve heard of him being accused of working with drug dealers but this if the first I’ve heard of him working for the CIA. Considering the level of intelligence the CIA normally needs, I would tend to doubt him working for them. He isn’t that smart.

      • JeffH

        45caliber, I’m kinda surprised you never heard that one. It has been poste quite a few times around here. Whether true or not, I can’t say for sure…but I’ll let you read this if you like.

        New Details on Obama’s CIA-Front Employer
        We have obtained additional details on Business International Corporation (BIC), the CIA front company where President Obama spent a year working after graduating from Columbia University in 1983.

        BIC used journalists as non-official cover agents around the world. The firm published weekly and fortnightly newsletters for business executives, including Business International, Business Europe, Business Latin America, and Business Asia.

        On February 24, 2009, WMR reported: “For one year, Obama worked as a researcher in BIC’s financial services division where he wrote for two BIC publications: “Financing Foreign Operations” and “Business International Money Report”, a weekly newsletter.
        http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/10/06/obama-worked-for-the-cia

  • Richard

    I agree completely with Mr. Ringer in his remark that for the Left, the means always justify the ends. Obama had no choice but to approve the assassination of Bin Laden. The intelligence on his location was so overwhelming that, had he refused, he would have appeared as a terrorist supporter and would have been exposed as totally unpatriotic. This would have destroyed his political future.

    • 45caliber

      Exactly. I’m surprised he even had to check with his handlers first before doing this. There were too many chances for him to be ruined politicially if he didn’t do it.

  • http://yahoo.com Albert Maslar

    Osama bin Laden Unarmed

    Osama bin Laden, self-admitted mastermind behind the 9/11 tragedy is dead and gone. Good riddance; BUT there seem to be more questions than answers. Purists want to know how the information about bin Laden was obtained; water-boarding or some other form of torture? Or who ordered the “Kill, Do Not Capture” command?

    As to the latter question, it seems that President Obama himself issued the order to kill bin Laden rather than take him prisoner. Obama’s Press Secretary Jay Carney appeared to have confirmed the fact of the presidential order.

    Is it legal or moral for President Obama to issue an absolute shoot to kill order against even the most heinous criminal, one who turns out was admittedly unarmed? Was the decision to dump bin Laden’s body into the sea an effort to “destroy the evidence?” Navy Seals did a magnificent job but someone gave specific kill orders. WHO???

    There have been countless incidents nationally in which police killed or beat unarmed criminals but had to suffer legal consequences including forfeiture of their badge and consequential incarceration. Undefined American values seem to be a coverall for deviant behavior, but as a country that prides itself upon the rule of law, it is always dangerous for anyone to take the law into their own hands.

    Regardless of how messy a trial might have been had bin Laden been taken prisoner, right is right, wrong is wrong, and the law is the law and perhaps International Law may have been compromised.

    Iraq Dictator Saddam Hussein was captured and brought to trial that condemned him to die by hanging, an appropriately ignominious death, and so it came to pass.

    President Bush II was threatened with impeachment though Congress did approve his two wars. President Barack Obama has skirted the Constitution on a number of occasions and if he is guilty of having issued an internationally prohibited order, perhaps he should be subject to the impeachment procedure. No matter what, this will not happen.

    • Frank907

      I have no moral difficulty with killing a rabid animal. In the case of rabid animals who terrorize an entire people like Saddam Hussein, the easy way is simply to support those within their government who would deal with them or arrange their sudden death then tell their replacement to play nice or suffer the same fate. Wars are not necessary when it is only a few leaders who are the problem. The soldiers and civilians who die in wars are the victims of a very few people on both sides. Saddam Hussein was a criminal, plain and simple. So was Osama Bin Ladin. They do not build, they destroy. They are not a positive force, they are a force for negative. Removing them is removing a cancer on the world. One could hope that at some point people would awaken to the fact that we are more the same than different and it is a better world for us all if we live honorable lives in peace and help one another.

      • 45caliber

        I’m glad to see that others also believe that those who work for the negative, destruction, should be eliminated. I came up with that reason myself in Vietnam. We as soldiers were to defend the builders and stop the destroyers. I still believe that. And with Osama our people did just that. I’d like to see others treated the same when all they do is destroy. And some are among our own people.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Just as the Bible says my friend, “You reap what you sow”. Osama Bin Laden brought death and destruction every where he went, and he reaped this same death upon himself. The world is a much better place without him.

        • Carlucci

          45 – God bless you for your service in Vietnam. One of my dearest friends is a Vietnam Vet. He was there for awhile and then served in special forces in Cambodia.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Carlucci,
            Was your friend in Cambodia in early 70?? I might have been crewchief on the huey that inserted him or his team mates. Our unit was flying them in the whole time the government was saying that we had no ground troops in Cambodia! What liars these politicos be!!!

          • Carlucci

            Joe, it may have been earlier than that, but I can find out.

  • Frank907

    Violence from the left? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, when was the last time you saw a violent conservative demonstration? When was the last time you saw a violent conservative demonstartion and the Democratic National Convention? When was the las time you saw a violent liberal demonstration at a Republican National Convention? When was the last time you saw a violent union (liberal) demonstration? Liberals think the ends justifies the means? You betcha! They think that conservatives are foolish for being well mannered and thoughtful.

    • eddie47d

      Robert Ringer is a verbal barbarian. Saying that Obama danced at the graves in Tucson and Ground Zero is shameful. Was that a Polka? So yes it is an excersize in futility in making Conservatives responsible for what they say. Decent? Not always and neither are Liberals at all times. Conservatives of every stripe have said collateral damages in war is Acceptable so why the Pious attitude now? Tom Tancredo even suggested we bomb Medina and Mecca just to prove a point. Concern for innocent lives? Hardly! So Ringer is a blowhard trying to spread his venom and seeing how many righties he can pick up along the way. How many Republicans and Libertarians have demanded Term Limits over the years? Plenty! Yet they turn around and support Hosni Mubarak who had been in office 30 years. The same guy who imprisoned thousands and his police enjoyed torturing anyone arrested. Maybe torture is what die hard Conservatives enjoyed about his regime. That is no more outrageous than what Ringer layed out about Liberals. I almost have to apologize to Time for there definetly Monkey Tools throughout this site. Who blindly follow the spell binders that write on this site. I thought Crystal was trying to be the mini-Messiah but Ringer has topped you in all his bloated bombast.

      • karolyn

        You didn’t mention Trump, who was being lauded by many conservatives. Trump sure sounded like he wasn’t worried about collateral damage the way he was talking about going back into Iraq and just taking what is owed to us. That would surely have resulted in a loss of life. His swaggering demeanor and attitude showed him to be someone who would have had no problem with more war.

      • JeffH

        47Stupid says: “Robert Ringer is a verbal barbarian.” ROFLMAO! Have to disagree with you. Surprised? Think not!

        Jealousy, pure jealousy. The greatest majority of your comments are predicated on pure jealousy and class envy. You jump to defend the liberals and Obama and Big Government at every turn and deserve to be rewarded with your own comic book charachter…”Sgt. Libby, defender of the Monkies”!

        FYI…Obama is not your friend.

        • eddie47d

          Jeff; So you agree with Tom Tancredo and also must be against Term Limits. Back to supporting torture also I see. .I’ll keep that in mind in your further comments.

          • JeffH

            47Stupid…you just confirmed that your comments and thoughts are based fully on pure conjecture without one iota of fact.

          • eddie47d

            If you can’t respond civilly to a comment then you must be in agreement with said commenter and what he has said. (torture lover) You must be a crippled old man Jeff

    • 45caliber

      Frank907:

      And they get very upset if they believe the conservatives might follow their examples too.

  • Nathan

    Oh yes. many of these obama worshippers are being lead like sheep to the slaughter by so stupidly following this guy off of a socialist cliff. just like at countries in europe who wait for the goverment to take care of them. obama’s radical back in which goes all the way back to his parents,with a atheist mother and a colonist father this man’s whole is filled with anti-american views. look at this man’s administration most if not all loons from the far left. we as american voters need to see that obama is a one termer. this man is deceptive and devisive. his true colors was once again put on display in texas by the way he joked about border security and the insult this guy made on the GOP. in ’012 let’s give this guy a one way ticket out of washington.

    • 45caliber

      Nathan:

      I doubt very seriously if his mother and father had much to do with his beliefs and political stance now. He wasn’t around them that much before he was turned over to his grandmother to raise. I suspect it was more his friendships with his present advisors who molded his background and beliefs now. And I’m wondering more and more if the rumors of his involvement in drugs and crime aren’t true as well.

  • FreedomFighter

    No amount of distraction can hide the radical agenda of Obama and his Progressive/Marxist/socialist/communist cohorts. I use such a long descriptor of cohort as not to leave out any of the evil little smucks in the Obama Administration.

    They are all evil.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • W. H. Martin

    The author is totally clueless regarding Obama. Obama is owned by the Wall Street banking elite. That is where his loyalties lie. He is not much different from Bush. Bush was owned by a different faction of the ruling elite–the oil industry.

    • Ken

      True. This banker gang owns both sides of the street: “liberal” and “conservative” in USA. Their game plan is “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. This document tells it all. Read it for yourself. Also, “Dreams of My Father” was not written by Obama but by Bill Ayers. See Jack Cashill who did research and documentation on this. The whole thing is a sham as is Obama’s legitimacy as president.

      • Carlucci

        Absolutely -! Look where their (Bush & Obama’s) staff comes from – the banking cartels.

        Hey did anyone hear about that horn dog exec from the IMF that got arrested a day or so ago for attempting to rape a hotel maid? What a perv:

        http://m.current.com/news/93226591_imf-head-charged-with-raping-hotel-maid.htm

        • 45caliber

          Carlucci:

          But he’s from European elite. That isn’t a crime there … for them. And I wouldn’t be surprised to see that used as an argument in his defense – if it ever comes to trial. I suspect the woman is being offered millions to withdraw charges and I wouldn’t be surprised if Oblama was to “recognize” that he has immunity here due to his position and let him go back to Europe.

          • Carlucci

            I think you hit the nail on the head, 45. Nothing will come of it. I’m sure the maid has already been paid off so she wouldn’t go to the press. But what is priceless was seeing that perv sitting in court pouting because he had to spend a night in jail with the “unwashed peasantry”. LOL -!!

          • Carlucci

            45 – This just landed in my email. Looks like that IMF perv is a repeat offender:

            http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=43557

          • karolyn

            I heard this morning that he would not be eligible for immunity. Also, another woman who was assaulted by him 2 years ago is talking about coming forward. His nickname is “The Seducer” in France.

      • Richard2687

        Sorry , but the “Protocols….” document was long ago exposed as an anti-semitic fraud/forgery constructed in Russia.

        • Ken

          That is the Jewish Political Zionist cover that has been debunked. Jewish Political Zionist cite the “Protocols” as coming as a plagiarism from a work by Maurice Jolly. What is found is that it was Mauric Jolly in 1860′s who was plagiaring from “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” which were actually at first called “The Manual of Action” written by Adam Weishaupt in 1773, founder of the Illuminati at behest of Rothschilds and 12 other European Jewish International Bankers, and expanded and updated in 1822 by a Rothschild in a Masonic Lodge in France. It did not come to be called “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” until the early 1920′s and were briefly included in a book in 1905 “The Great Within the Small”. Henry Ford published them in the 1920′s under the title “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” and was called upon to apologize saying, “all I know is what they say is what is happening.” Anybody who reads the “Protocols” and observes culture, politics,economics in USA (and world) seeking truth and being honest will agree.

          • Carlucci

            Same thing with the book I mentioned earlier “Who is Esau-Edom”. Anyone reading that book can clearly see that what is going on now is all part of the plan to bring the world to its knees.

          • Richard2687

            Anyone wishing to engage in a moderate amount of research will easily discover the truth, and it is at great variance from what you have presented. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would be proud of you, not to mention Hitler, Eichmann, Heydrich, et al. Dispicable nonsense!

          • April

            Richard2687
            You obviously have engaged in just that, a moderate amount of research. What about extensive research? Belikova rules Protocols as fraud based on research by a small panel of experts who was involved in a coverup agenda on a sect of crypto jews which Karl Marx and Leon Trotsky and even now Soros is part of. These crypto jews are not your Israelite descendant as of the very tribes of Judah or Levi for that fact but an infiltration that goes as far back and mentioned by Ezra and Nehemiah. Why do you think that John the Baptist was preaching in the wilderness instead of in the temple where these cryto jews infiltrated? A very intriguing and exhaustive study.

        • Ken

          Don’t think so. Moderate research is what you have done and that is not enough on this issue. You have to dig deep and wide and uncover the facts rather than the fiction you have bought from Political Zionist in the USA propaganda mills. The Synagogue of Satan has your head, Richard 2868.

          • Carlucci

            That book I mentioned IS well researched, Richard2687. Where is the research to back up your opinion???

  • JC

    “Eventually a consulting house to multinational corporations agreed to hire me as a research assistant. Like a spy behind enemy lines [my emphasis], I arrived every day at my mid-Manhattan office and sat at my computer terminal, checking the Reuters machine that blinked bright emerald messages from across the globe.”

    ______________________________________________________________________

    The words of a man working hard to bring ruin to America.

    • 45caliber

      JC:

      He probably did consider himself a “spy” since he was working in the offices of the entity he considers the “enemy”.

      • JC

        Exactly my point 45. It demonstrates a mind set that he still has.

  • Bwalker

    I read an article, May 3, purported to be written,(Ulsterman) or information provided by a White House “Insider” that described the whole Osama affair and Obama’s interferrance, rather than support for the whole affair, that for any aware individual, smacks more of truth than anything else the media is putting out. I’m wondering why this report hasn’t been vetted and expounded on by any of the Conservative media? Read this and tell me why Obama is gettin a pass on this info.

    Issued Order to Kill Osama Bin Laden
    White House Insider: Obama Hesitated – Panetta Issued Order to Kill Osama Bin Laden
    by Ulsterman in Issues, May 3, 2011
    “What Valerie Jarrett, and the president, did not know is that Leon Panetta had already initiated a program that reported to him –and only him, involving a covert on the ground attack against the compound.”

    Note:This update comes some 24 hours after our longtime Washington D.C. Insider first outlined shocking details of an Obama administration having been “overruled” by senior military and intelligence officials leading up to the successful attack against terrorist Osama Bin Laden. What follows is further clarification of Insider’s insights surrounding that event.
    _______
    Q: You stated that President Obama was “overruled” by military/intelligence officials regarding the decision to send in military specialists into the Osama Bin Laden compound. Was that accurate?
    A: I was told – in these exact terms, “we overruled him.” (Obama) I have since followed up and received further details on exactly what that meant, as well as the specifics of how Leon Panetta worked around the president’s “persistent hesitation to act.” There appears NOT to have been an outright overruling of any specific position by President Obama, simply because there was no specific position from the president to do so. President Obama was, in this case, as in all others, working as an absentee president.
    Read more in Issues
    « Good Riddance to Osama Bin Laden
    President Obama Shouldn’t be Trusted: Osama Bin Laden Might Resurrect »
    I was correct in stating there had been a push to invade the compound for several weeks if not months, primarily led by Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, David Petraeus, and Jim Clapper. The primary opposition to this plan originated from Valerie Jarrett, and it was her opposition that was enough to create uncertainty within President Obama. Obama would meet with various components of the pro-invasion faction, almost always with Jarrett present, and then often fail to indicate his position. This situation continued for some time, though the division between Jarrett/Obama and the rest intensified more recently, most notably from Hillary Clinton. She was livid over the president’s failure to act, and her office began a campaign of anonymous leaks to the media indicating such. As for Jarrett, her concern rested on two primary fronts. One, that the military action could fail and harm the president’s already weakened standing with both the American public and the world. Second, that the attack would be viewed as an act of aggression against Muslims, and further destabilize conditions in the Middle East.
    Q: What changed the president’s position and enabled the attack against Osama Bin Laden to proceed?
    A: Nothing changed with the president’s opinion – he continued to avoid having one. Every time military and intelligence officials appeared to make progress in forming a position, Jarrett would intervene and the stalling would begin again. Hillary started the ball really rolling as far as pressuring Obama began, but it was Panetta and Petraeus who ultimately pushed Obama to finally act – sort of. Panetta was receiving significant reports from both his direct CIA sources, as well as Petraeus-originating Intel. Petraeus was threatening to act on his own via a bombing attack. Panetta reported back to the president that a bombing of the compound would result in successful killing of Osama Bin Laden, and little risk to American lives. Initially, as he had done before, the president indicated a willingness to act. But once again, Jarrett intervened, convincing the president that innocent Pakistani lives could be lost in such a bombing attack, and Obama would be left attempting to explain Panetta’s failed policy. Again Obama hesitated – this time openly delaying further meetings to discuss the issue with Panetta. A brief meeting was held at this time with other officials, including Secretary Gates and members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but Gates, like Panetta, was unable to push the president to act. It was at this time that Gates indicated to certain Pentagon officials that he may resign earlier than originally indicated – he was that frustrated. Both Panetta and Clinton convinced him to stay on and see the operation through.
    What happened from there is what was described by me as a “masterful manipulation” by Leon Panetta. Panetta indicated to Obama that leaks regarding knowledge of Osama Bin Laden’s location were certain to get out sooner rather than later, and action must be taken by the administration or the public backlash to the president’s inaction would be “…significant to the point of political debilitation.” It was at that time that Obama stated an on-ground campaign would be far more acceptable to him than a bombing raid. This was intended as a stalling tactic, and it had originated from Jarrett. Such a campaign would take both time, and present a far greater risk of failure. The president had been instructed by Jarrett to inform Mr., Panetta that he would have sole discretion to act against the Osama Bin Laden compound. Jarrett believed this would further delay Panetta from acting, as the responsibility for failure would then fall almost entirely on him. What Valerie Jarrett, and the president, did not know is that Leon Panetta had already initiated a program that reported to him –and only him, involving a covert on the ground attack against the compound. Basically, the whole damn operation was already ready to go – including the specific team support Intel necessary to engage the enemy within hours of being given notice. Panetta then made plans to proceed with an on-ground assault. This information reached either Hillary Clinton or Robert Gates first (likely via military contacts directly associated with the impending mission) who then informed the other. Those two then met with Panetta, who informed each of them he had been given the authority by the president to proceed with a mission if the opportunity presented itself. Both Gates and Clinton warned Panetta of the implications of that authority – namely he was possibly being made into a scapegoat. Panetta admitted that possibility, but felt the opportunity to get Bin Laden outweighed that risk. During that meeting, Hillary Clinton was first to pledge her full support for Panetta, indicating she would defend him if necessary. Similar support was then followed by Gates. The following day, and with Panetta’s permission, Clinton met in private with Bill Daley and urged him to get the president’s full and open approval of the Panetta plan. Daley agreed such approval would be of great benefit to the action, and instructed Clinton to delay proceeding until he had secured that approval. Daley contacted Clinton within hours of their meeting indicating Jarrett refused to allow the president to give that approval. Daley then informed Clinton that he too would fully support Panetta in his actions, even if it meant disclosing the president’s indecision to the American public should that action fail to produce a successful conclusion. Clinton took that message back to Panetta and the CIA director initiated the 48 hour engagement order. At this point, the President of the United States was not informed of the engagement order – it did not originate from him, and for several hours after the order had been given and the special ops forces were preparing for action into Pakistan from their position in Afghanistan, Daley successfully kept Obama and Jarrett insulated from that order.
    This insulation ended at some point with an abort order that I believe originated from Valerie Jarrett’s office, and was then followed up by President Obama. This abort order was later explained as a delay due to weather conditions, but the actual conditions at that time would have been acceptable for the mission. A storm system had been in the area earlier, but was no longer an issue. Check the data yourself to confirm. Jarrett, having been caught off guard, was now scrambling to determine who had initiated the plan. She was furious, repeating the acronym “CoC” and saying it was not being followed. This is where Bill Daley intervened directly. The particulars of that intervention are not clear to me beyond knowing he did meet with Jarrett in his office and following that meeting, Valerie Jarrett was not seen in the West Wing for some time, and apparently no longer offered up any resistance to the Osama Bin Laden mission. What did follow from there was one or more brief meetings between Bill Daley, Hillary Clinton, a representative from Robert Gates’ office, a representative from Leon Panetta’s office, and a representative from Jim Clapper’s office. I have to assume that these meetings were in essence, detailing the move to proceed with the operation against the Osama Bin Laden compound. I have been told by more than one source that Leon Panetta was directing the operation with both his own CIA operatives, as well as direct contacts with military – both entities were reporting to Panetta only at this point, and not the President of the United States. There was not going to be another delay as had happened 24 hour earlier. The operation was at this time effectively unknown to President Barack Obama or Valerie Jarrett and it remained that way until AFTER it had already been initiated. President Obama was literally pulled from a golf outing and escorted back to the White House to be informed of the mission. Upon his arrival there was a briefing held which included Bill Daley, John Brennan, and a high ranking member of the military. When Obama emerged from the briefing, he was described as looking “very confused and uncertain.” The president was then placed in the situation room where several of the players in this event had already been watching the operation unfold. Another interesting tidbit regarding this is that the Vice President was already “up to speed” on the operation. A source indicated they believe Hillary Clinton had personally made certain the Vice President was made aware of that day’s events before the president was. The now famous photo released shows the particulars of that of that room and its occupants. What that photo does not communicate directly is that the military personnel present in that room during the operation unfolding, deferred to either Hillary Clinton or Robert Gates. The president’s role was minimal, including their acknowledging of his presence in the room.
    At the conclusion of the mission, after it had been repeatedly confirmed a success, President Obama was once again briefed behind closed doors. The only ones who went in that room besides the president were Bill Daley. John Brennan, and a third individual whose identity remains unknown to me. When leaving this briefing, the president came out of it “…much more confident. Much more certain of himself.” He was also carrying papers in his hand that quite possibly was the address to the nation given later that evening on the Bin Laden mission. The president did not have those papers with him prior to that briefing. The president then returned to the war room, where by this time, Leon Panetta had personally arrived and was receiving congratulations from all who were present.
    In my initial communication to you of these events I described what unfolded as a temporary Coup initiated by high ranking intelligence and military officials. I stand by that term. These figures worked around the uncertainty of President Obama and the repeated resistance of Valerie Jarrett. If they had not been willing to do so, I am certain Osama Bin Laden would still be alive today. There will be no punishment to those who acted outside the authority of the president’s office. The president cannot afford to admit such a fact. What will be most interesting from here is to now see what becomes of Valerie Jarrett. One source indicated she is threatening resignation. I find that unlikely given my strong belief she needs the protection afforded her by the Oval Office and its immense powers to delay and eventually terminate investigations back in Chicago, but we shall see.

    • 45caliber

      BWalker:

      This is interesting. Thanks for posting it. I had wondered who Oblama was getting his orders from on this matter. I had heard that the proposal was placed before him but he had refused to sign without “sleeping on it” – which gave him the time to check with someone else on it first. I had wondered who that person was. And I still wonder why permission wasn’t given. The reasons given not to act were actually too flimsy for me to believe.

      I still wonder if Osama wasn’t placed at that site and kept there as a virtual prisoner in case the President needed a sudden aid from the media to help his popularity. While it did just that, I wonder now if it wasn’t done prematurely to what his handlers wanted. Such an event, coming just before election, could easily have won for him. This gives a better explaination for why it was done now.

    • eddie47d

      Bwalker; Important comments but what you said blows the theory that Obama doesn’t care about killing innocent lives. Which a bombing raid would have done and which he wanted to avoid. It had to be a covert operation and well thought out. Thankfully it worked out and Obama could have been more bold in this action. It also shows he has a good team around him except for Valerie Jarrett.Reminds me of Condelezza Rice and her blind loyality to Bush. Going into any foreign country is very trickey but a missle attack would have presented more uncertainty. The treasure trove of evidence would have been destroyed and Pakistan would have been even angrier. Carter was and is mocked today by Conservatives because his misson was a failure. I’m sure Obama had that on his mind in not going along with the earlier reports. The Conservatives would have had a field day if this action was a failure. I know, you patriots were hoping! If what Bwalker is saying is all true and Obama didn’t commit until the end then those fallacies about him doing it for political purposes is all bogus.

    • Ken

      Here is a newly released video from the raid and Osama bin Laden’s burial at sea:

      http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/1101.html

      • JC

        Pretty funny.

    • April

      I got the same email. very interesting read.

  • http://none john eastin

    This Muslin is the worst case person at the worst case time in history and we will be very lucky is this country survives him,his staff,and the Demos

  • Bwalker

    So much for our “Brave Commander in Chief” Huh?

  • RWT001

    Obama and his supporters want to remake the USA and drastically change the future from the past. This includes changing the demographics of the power base in terms of religious and racial makeup from being based upon western civilization.

  • cricket3991

    Omawazzi, don’t be so sure about the birther thing. I think Trump let it drop too soon. IF you think he is a fool you need to search for Obama birth certificate on line, there are many pages showing the inconsistancies on that so called birth certificate. You will see that the last example Obama released has been photoshoped with at least 7 layers, and the topper is there is no raised seal from the state of Hawaii. Who ever did it did not know how to clear the layers off before they printed it. Even a child would know this certificate is not real. No one made a fool of Trump but Obama will be the fool when everyone takes a look at the facts.
    Trump and Huckabee pulled out because they may not be able to get the nomination, not that they couldn’t beat Obama.

    • Omawazzi

      Hey Cricket.

      You know I first thought that Trump might be a good thing.
      He was talking about busting China’s balls, bringing manufacturing back to America, to hell with the foreign countries unless they have something we want and/or can use and much more.
      I mean he was talking about putting America first.
      Then he began on the Birther Thing, which is nothing about America’s real issues and problems.
      His ego and I’m the greatest attitude made me question his integrity.
      This began making him look as a fool to the Majority of Americans.

      There is no way to actually and without a doubt prove Obama’s place of birth and in trying to do so(I must say it again)is an true Exercise of Futility.
      If Trump had stayed on track, he just might have been the one to burn Obama, but he threw it all away when he brought up the Birther argument.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        omawazzi,
        you show your ignorance very well!!! IF nobummer is not a citizen, it bears very heavy on The United States problems from economics to our problems in battle!! Our Constitution, which you progs demean so much, states our president HAS TO BE a natural born citizen!! This is to try to insure that our president has NO FOREIGN ENTANGLEMENTS and no LOYALTIES to foreign entities!!! Grow up, son and get a little life experience!!!

    • karolyn

      An an also find sites where the “problems” with the birth certificate are addressed. Face it, whatever we believe, we can find sites to back up our beliefs.

  • chuckb

    eddie47, “Let’s be clear on this: OBAMA did NOT kill Bin Laden. An American sailor, who Obama just a few weeks ago was debating on whether or not to PAY, did. In fact, if you remember a little less than two years ago, his administration actually charged and attempted to court marshall 3 Navy Seals from Seal Team Six, when a terrorist suspect they captured, complained they had punched him during the take down and bloodied his nose. His administration further commented how brutal they were. The left were calling them Nazi’s and Baby Killers. Now all of a sudden the very brave men they villified, are now heros when they make his administration look good in the eyes of the public. Obama just happened to be the one in office when the CIA finally found the b…… and our sailors took him out. Essentially, Obama only gave an answer. Yes or No, to him being taken out. This is NOT an Obama victory, but an AMERICAN victory!!

  • PMS

    I have not been able to find Mr. Livingstons letter about the Jovianus,Hflashman, etc. stuff. Could someone direct me in the right direction?

    • DaveH
    • Curtis S

      From what I remember about networking… you have to consider Dynamic Host Configuration Protocols (DHCP). A number of people may appear to have the same IP address because they are being routed through the same router. The router will dynamically assign an IP address based on what’s available… or it’s multiple people on the same network… or a shared computer… or one person with multiple personalities.

      • libertytrain

        we’ve sure seen the multiple personality syndrome around here – :)

      • DaveH

        I suspect the last, Curtis.

      • DaveH

        If the IP was a router IP, the header would need to contain the target address when it hits the router in order to end up at the correct computer. I’m sure Bob’s Webmaster could read the header for that if interested.

  • Wayne937

    I do not know how many of you know this, but Obama signed it into law some time last year, or maybe the year before. The INTERPOL can now come into the US and take a person out of this country without due process. In other words they can come to your home, or business and cart you off to their another country without taking you in front of a judge. Isn’t this ridiculous. Obama signed this into law I think it was in Dec of 08, or 09. This is how stupid this man is. I will look this up, and post the date, and the website. This is our Commander in Chief.

  • 2WarAbnVet

    Obama is being lauded for making the “gutsy decision”. It’s a decision any of 250 million random Americans would have made, even a weak sister like Jimmy Carter (recall Desert One). As it was Obama waited eighteen hours, and slept and pondered on it, before giving the go order.

    We’ve all seen the photo of the situation room during the raid. Who is the most frightened, least imposing, least conspicuous person in the room?

    • JC

      The wimpy kid with the big ears hunkered down in the corner?

    • 45caliber

      What is saddest to me about this whole affair is that the entire attack hinged on what might be best for Oblama’s reelection campaign.

  • cae

    As Independents my husband and I simply said after day 3 of the death of Bin Laden…”okay..he s dead..now what about the millions of unemployed citizens, what about the millions of citizens getting food stamps to feed Their families while our border is open and illegals, criminals, drugs and terrorists continue to enter our country. You can fool some of the people but then there are those like us who look at the big picture and don t like what we see!

  • DaveH

    For some insight into just how far this country has gotten from Individual Freedom:
    http://reason.com/archives/2011/03/10/the-lobster-underground/singlepage

    For some reason, I’m craving a lobster roll right now.

    • Carlucci

      Me, too.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Carlucci,
        I happened to be able to catch part of Beck today and now instead of buying gold, I’m gonna hoard incandescent light bulbs!!! They aren’t heavy, so I should be able to store quite a few cases in my attic! By the time they quit selling them, there should be a black market for them and I should be able to sell them for about 10.00 a piece!!! What a country!!!!

        • Carlucci

          Joe H – I’ve heard the same thing about the Liberty Bell stamps. Supposedly they will be good for years, while postage keeps going up.
          I’ll bet those will be another black market item.

    • Karolyn

      Dave, Unfortunately, if there were no controls, the streets would be filled with people selling all kinds of crap. Especially in NYC, they would jam the place. There have to be some kind of controls. Even in small towns there have been controls on food vendors for a long time. I have had occasion to be involved in the bureaucracy of food vending. Especially in small towns, I do believe they might go too far at times. However, “You can’t fight city hall.”

  • AustinAndy

    I believe that Osama bin Laden was killed as stated on May 1 of this year. I believe that the Navy SEALs would not make a mistake this grave. And I believe that the reason that the pictures of bin Laden were not released is not because of “spiking the ball” or “taking a lap around the track” as our President has suggested. He certainly milked the event as far as possible by spiking the ball and taking his victory lap. I believe that Dennis Miller has the right take on the pictures. We will see them when Barack Obama believes that they will have maximum impact during his presidential campaign for reelection. They will solidify his bona fides as a foreign policy expert, even though our foreign policy is a shambles and laughing stock right now.

  • http://survivaljoe.net/blog/osama-bin-laden-dead-since-2001/ Survival Joe

    Great article, Robert.

    Obama is, as you say, a “Master of Distraction.” He ordered the hit on bin Laden to distract from the whole “birther” issue that was blowing up in his face because of Donald Trump. Then he held a news conference that cut off The Apprentice to send a message to Trump: “You mess with me, I’ll mess with you.”

    The funny part is that the best evidence we have shows that Osama bin Laden died in December 2001. This is supported by the CIA, our own government, as well as dozens of witnesses. To read the 4,000-word article I wrote on this subject, click my name.

    -Survival Joe

  • Richard2687

    Anyone wishing to engage in a moderate amount of research will easily discover the truth, and it is at great variance from what you have presented. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would be proud of you, not to mention Hitler, Eichmann, Heydrich, et al. Dispicable nonsense!

  • DaveH

    Of the over 200 groups that have gotten 1 year waivers from Obamacare, 20% are in Nancy Pelosi’s district. How convenient. Can you say Corruption?

  • Verus Langham

    Of these words, “Like a spy behind enemy lines [my emphasis]” I find great meaning within the context that he – the usurper of the office of President – probably yet feels the spy he truly is (a Marxist mole); just imagine the gamesman he portrays herein; Tom Clancy wrote a novel once upon a time about a master spy inside the Kremlin during the Cold War and I believe that Mr. O has about equaled that mark of professional excellence achieved by that character. I have no doubt that this man has read all such intrigues and considers himself (arrogantly) the equal to any and all such masterminds.

  • RayLindsey

    I find it unreal that one person can creat so much discussion. It just seems the liberals are not happy unless they are instigating some kind of disruption. Remember “never let a good contastophy go to waste”

  • Charles

    Voters,
    Everyone who plans to vote in 2012 should read two books that Obama
    wrote. Book 1>Dreams From My Father Book 2 >Adacity of Hope >> If these 2 books don`t open peoples eyes, nothing will. I`m not going to
    give you my opinion,you have to form your own. The people who back Obama and voted for him, by all means should read these 2 books.These
    are his own words and nobody on the right are trying to infulence your thinking. Don`t buy the books,you can get them at your local library.

  • Charles

    To all and a all good night,
    SOCIALISM is a philosophy of FAILUR
    THE CREED OF Igorance AND THE GOESPEL OF ENVEY
    It`s inherent VIRTUE is equal sharing of Misery
    SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL>>>>>>

  • jopa

    Also at your local library is My Pet Goat 11 by George W Bush in the fiction and children’s section.He tried to write an autobiography but that didn’t work out so well for him.

  • http://n/a Terry

    Assassinations are justice islam style as evidenced by 9-11 when there were 3000 assassinations. Americn justice is: One is innocent until proven guilty. O could not let there be a trial of an islamic figure because it would expose that O lives politically on petro dollars alone.

  • Ridge Runner

    Mr jermy leecher and any one else that think the same needs to grt some one tom help them get their head out of their ass and take a good hot soaking bath to get the shit out of their eyes and ears and get some good honest tutoring then be checked to see if they can under stand what this bunch of liberal out law communistssob in the white house is doing to our constution and our freedoms. It didn’t start with george bush this has been going on for years.This fema law was signed into law in 1979 by exectivative orded in 1979.I don’t remember hearing any thing then so it must have been sliped by with no one objecting.This is no small thing because there is over 800 fema camps already staffed and ready. There is probably enough room to house most of the population.It was sold as a place to house people for safety but it looks like to me people control and not safety.It looks like this has been planed for years and the government is taking over our country and the people will be told when to shit how much to shit and where to shit and these fema camps are not for our care and safety but for for this out of control out law government’s safety.If jerrmy leecher can’t see this take over as wrong then him an a whole lots of these blood sucking leechers are going put our country under and boy are they in for a big supprise.If these communists complete their agenda our country will be another north korea,russia or china does any one need to be told how many have died in these country at the hands of their rulers.How in the hell can we get theseidiots educated to what is being done because the media owned and being ran by george soros isn’t going to.

  • John Joshua Sweet

    As Stated elsewhere the democrats say: “Well if he’s judged by his performance on the economy it’s a tough sell. If’ he’s judged on the basis of values and it’s a referendum on values he’s got a shot.” What values are those? The one where he put all of Seal team Six in danger or the civilian population surrounding the base to get votes? Or is the it the values shown telling the enemy that we had a major coo with the capture intelligences materials so they can change their now known plans? Or was it the value of being a Marxist with a Marxist following in the democratic congress? Or how about his five month sixteen hour delay on calling the strike in, if he is so decisive? Or better yet was it how he openly supported the enemy by his bragging about how it was done and what we garnered from the assault, Well it certainly can not be the economy with an unemployment rate hovering above 15% still. Or how he has put Muslim Brotherhood members in positions inside Homeland Security, that sounds really smart doesn’t it? Or sending US funds overseas to support the Muslim Brotherhood in the gulf region that has to be a really smart idea to assure the democratic process continue in Egypt. We see what he values most is gaining votes not the security of the nation nor it citizens. We see also that his exemptions from campaign funding disclosure is suspect, along with his ties to George Soros and how he is for drilling but the Senate opposed any such thing, and after all he is supposed to be the leader of the democratic party so why would the democrats in the senate oppose his efforts Oh I know it looks good he tried to open up drilling but it was not his fault that the Senate vetoed his position Or was it already known that they would oppose it and it is just another issue of getting the votes and the citizens be damned, but funding to Soros for his oil is on going which further shows just as long as they are full blown Anti Americans and as long as they put funds in his pocket nothing is wrong with it. These are just the few of the things that he should be held accountable for!
    “ the People of the United States are the rightful masters of both congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the constitution.” Abraham Lincoln

  • Wayne937

    If you want to see how your Congress Member in Congress is voting go here and click on you state: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/votes/?votenum=72&chamber=S&congress=1121

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