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Reducing Our Recommended Daily Dose Of Poison

January 24, 2011 by  

Reducing Our Recommended Daily Dose Of Poison

The Environmental Protection Agency has finally admitted the danger posed by injecting fluoride into our water supplies and using it to control pests in food storage and processing facilities… but isn’t ready to ban the poison completely.

Last week the United States Department of Health and Human Services changed its recommended fluoride levels in the water supply — dropping the acceptable amount to 0.7 milligrams (mg) per liter from the previous range of 0.7 to 1.2 mg set in 1962. The reason? A government study found that two out of four adolescents have tooth streaking or spottiness — known as fluorosis — because they’re exposed to too much fluoride.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that the splotchy tooth condition is unexpectedly common in youths aged 12 to 15, and has become increasingly common since the 1980s. Fluorosis also causes skeletal damage and bone abnormalities and increases the incidence of fractures.

At about the same time the EPA announced that it is beginning a phase-down of the pesticide sulfuryl fluoride — a pesticide used in food storage and processing facilities — that breaks down into fluoride. This fluoride — which poisons insects and rodents — finds its way onto foods like stored grains, dried fruits, tree nuts, coffee and cocoa beans.

The combination of fluoride in water, fluoride in toothpastes, fluoride in mouthwashes and fluoride on our foods has caused problems in our children’s teeth and bones.

But there’s more. Fluoride also lowers the intelligence quotient in children, according to studies of children in China. That’s a nice way of saying that fluoride causes brain damage.

The studies evaluated more than 500 children in two Chinese villages. One of the villages had higher-than-average fluoride levels while the other had lower-than-average levels. Those in the low fluoride village had intelligence levels 350 percent higher than those in the high fluoride village.

A National Research Council Report issued in 2006 found “a growing body of scientific research linking fluoride exposure to disruption of the nervous and endocrine systems, including the brain, thyroid and pineal gland. According to data presented in the report, the doses of fluoride associated with thyroid disturbances are now exceeded by many Americans — particularly children — living in so-called ‘low fluoride’ (one part per million) areas,” stated a news release by the non-profit Fluoride Action Network (FAN).

FAN called the new fluoride level recommendations “baby steps.” Unfortunately, they do nothing for babies. Kathleen M. Thiessen, Ph.D., co-author of the 2006 NRC report on the effects of fluoride toxicity, writes, “At a fluoride level of 0.7 mg/L, a 15-pound infant drinking 0.75 L per day of formula prepared with fluoridated water will ingest 0.075 mg of fluoride per kilogram of body weight. Fluoride intakes above about 0.03 mg/kg per day have been associated with the occurrence of dental fluorosis, so the proposed change will still not be protective for infants drinking formula made from concentrate.”

Thiessen recommends parents buy bottled water to use in preparing formula for their infants.

In fact, the EPA’s own scientists, lawyers, engineers and other professional employees oppose the EPA’s recommendations on fluoride and have documented instances where the EPA suppressed data and even fired its chief toxicologist, Dr. William Marcus, for speaking out about fluoride’s health risks.

The National Treasury Employees Union, which represents EPA employees at the organization’s headquarters in Washington, D.C., has come out in opposition to fluoridation.

In a news release the union said its members first believed the government lie that fluoride’s effects were beneficial — reductions in tooth decay, etc. But then a scientist came to the union complaining he was forced to write into new EPA regulations in 1985 that flourosis was an acceptable side-effect because it was a cosmetic rather than a health effect.

The union tried to settle the dispute privately with the EPA but the EPA was unable or unwilling to resist external political pressure, so it joined a public interest group’s lawsuit against the EPA.

Now the union claims there are scientific reports of fluoride’s deleterious effects on the brain, kidneys and pineal gland, and higher instances of certain cancers in laboratory tests. The EPA is aware of these reports and consistently covers them up.

The truth is, fluoride is slowly poisoning Americans to death — and the government is taking the lead in “mass medicating” you and your family.

We have two books available that exposes the lie about fluoridation and the swindle that’s behind it. If you’d like your free copies of the books, Click Here.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Vigilant

    “The studies evaluated more than 500 children in two Chinese villages. One of the villages had higher-than-average fluoride levels while the other had lower-than-average levels. Those in the low fluoride village had IQs 350 percent higher than those in the high fluoride village.”

    Sorry, that’s impossible mathematics. 350 percent is wrong. Please re-check the figures.

    • MrFlippy

      Good observation. Considering that IQs range from about 80 to about 160 at the extreme high end, 350% or 3.5 times, would suggest an average of, say under 60 was increased to over 180 from one village to the next. Impossible.

      • wandamurline

        This article does not surprise me. Our government is hell bent on having a one world order, which means that they must cut the intelligence of our children…us old folks who grew up in the 40′s through the 60′s didn’t get all of this poison, so we still have a brain and used it when we started the tea parties in 2009. They also must cut the populace…i.e. vaccinations (didn’t take a flu shot this year because they rolled the swine flu shot into it and this vaccination is linked to Gilles Barre Syndrome which is a autoimmune disease that attacks the nervous system…a planted MS disease), flouride and who knows what else…the Obamacare…withhold medical treatments for the elderly, many of which still have their computer brain and still use it…a win/win for the government…kill us off, they don’t have to pay us social security (which we have paid all our lives) nor provide us with Medicare…money well saved. Our government is the enemy of the people…they are out of control…and if they are not reigned in…there is going to be a revolution in this country like there was in 1776…the King underestimated the people of America, and this government is doing the same thing.

        • isk of stupid sh t

          I enjoyed reading what you wrote & agree with you 100% & wondered why it has taking so long for all of us to wake up & realise that the Gov constsantly screw us any way they can

          • Mike In MI

            ioss -
            Our Government is now run by bureaucracies appointed by and, therefore, answerable only to the Executive Branch, not Congress. The only way we get safety and freedom back again is for Congress to defund and take back control of the processes of governing (and starve the bureaucrats) on our behalf as our representatives. Otherwise, the BO king pretty much orders what he wants through them.
            We never noticed and not much ever seemed to be amiss as long as we had fairly benign leadership in place. But, now that we have a malevolent, disfunctionally authoritarian autocrat in charge the system is not our friend. Thus, we are ruled by a minority who think having a king makes us cool – like Britain.
            If they can put the Tea Partiers back to sleep – look out – because malevolent autocrats don’t appreciate challenges. The Devil’s in the details.

        • kate8

          wanda – It’s even worse than all this. They aren’t just now discovering how damaging flouride is to people. The German NAZIs found that fluoride made people docile and compliant, and they came up with the idea of putting it in the water to make sure the effects were widespread. They also told people it was for dental health.

          Dumbing us down was the reason for fluoridating all along. Where I live, fluoride is not added to the water, so doctors give it to infants in their liquid vitamins.

          • Mike In MI

            K88 -
            How nice for them, eh-h-h (the Progressives, that is). Floridate everybody you can, make them docile and co-operatively dependent and then put up a misanthrope like BO and make him look like the Cat-in-the-Hat.
            I wonder how long it’ll be until the “Seuss-keepers” show up and go through the fur seal rookery with baseball bats?

          • Christin

            I believe they are still putting flouride into our tap water here… do you know if the addition of charcoal filters attached to faucets or like in the “Brita” or “PUR” water filters are able to take the Flouride out of the water?

            I’m not so sure going to bottled water like the article mentions is the way to go either. I went to buy bottled water last year and it was very hot like it had just come off the truck… and we all know what poisons are released when the petroleum based plastic gets warm.
            I realized that bottled water is probably not shipped in refrigerated trucks and the chemicals are already reacting and in the bottled water.
            Plus a woman on Ventura’s Great Lakes Conspiracy show says that bottled water is not regulated and they are adding chemicals in the bottles of water and those drugs are interacting with our hormones and making us sterile.

            They knew about hte problems with flouride for so many years… it is too bad evil people suppressed it as our kids’ pediatrician perscribed our sons to take multi-vitamins with Flouride, but later on when we went to another younger doctor in that office he said NO percription with flouride and so we stopped, but my boys were maybe already 5 and 3 by then. Wonder if the effects of flouride are log lasting in the brain… permanently or recoverable.

          • SusieQ

            Kate8 – where do you live? I thought all municipalities are required to put it in the water…are you in the country side? or just not in the US? Just generally, I don’t need to know exactly!

          • independant thinker

            Christin, Some of the filters are supposed to remove Chlorine and Flourine but offhand i do not know which ones.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            My daughter was born in 1988, and she developed that white streaks on her teeth when she was around 10, which would have made in 1998. A dentist did something to turn her teeth all the same color to hide it, and it never came back. It was like teeth whitening, but different as her teeth werent that fake white I see all these young kids, and a few older ones who think they are kids run around with these days. She never developed the fragile bones or anything like that, but it may affect the brain, as her thinking isnt straight on a lot of things, and when I try to tell her the right way to go, I get turned off and the silent treatment for a couple of months before she gets over it. Of course she is a 23 year old adult now, who knows everything, since the age of 16, and wont realize how smart I am for another 7 years. Something about turning 30 makes our parents get a lot smarter for some reason.

          • debalazo

            “kate8 says:
            The German NAZIs found that fluoride made people docile and compliant…”

            Actually, it was the Bolsheviks who destroyed Russia, you know, the ones sent from Brooklyn by the Warburgs, and the Rothschilds financed them from England, who forced their criminal discovery into their Russian prisoners at their Gulags. The Nazis, with many Zionists working for Hitler (an army and a general) merely followed the same procedure as their predecessors and teachers.

            Avoid all fluoridated bottled water, put a filter in the main to the house, then distill your drinking and cooking water. And beat the Beast from Babylonia on its way to your brain, bones, and tissue.

          • Ellen

            Christin: neither Pur nor Brita removes the fluoride. A reverse osmosis system will remove about 60% but a Berkey water filter WITH additional fluoride filters (aluminum oxide) does the best job. Pur, Brita and pretty much all of the filters on the market are good a removing chlorine but not a whole lot more.

          • Christin

            Thanks Ellen…I appreciate your input. We have been drinking bottled “spring water” for a decade I guess and we just bought a PUR pitcher and were wondering if it was any better.
            Eventually, we will put a filter on the kitchen faucet or under the cabinet… and now after reading other posts maybe in the bathrooms to keep the chemicals off our bodies as well…

          • Zeromonet

            Flouride also is the cause of rapid aging in humans… Just what a communist government likes to hear

          • Peter

            Christin, unfortunately the only filter that will remove fluoride from drinking water is a reverse osmosis filter. Charcoal won’t do it I’m afraid.

          • Granny Mae

            My husband was treated for cancer about 25 years ago and it was in his neck. To treat him they would have to radiate his jaw and neck area so they had him have all his dental work done first and then they put him on a flouride treatment that he had to do himself all the time to protect the teeth he had left. I was not happy about it and didn’t want him to do it but he did as his doctor told him. About a year after his treatments he quit using it . I don’t know if it helped him or not but have often wondered if it had anything to do with his thyroid problem later or if it was the radiation or both. His teeth were always weak and he seems to have had less trouble with his teath since the treatments so it is hard to know what effect it had on him . What ever the case I still don’t like it and I really don’t like it when they put it in water and you don’t have the choice to use it or not. In the tooth paste is different because you don’t have to buy it if you don’t want it but not in the water.

        • Deanna

          Well said Wanda, I completely agree.

        • castaway

          A revolution, is the only thing, that will fix the problems we have. Do you believe in the US constitution, and the Bill of Rights? We are told in the BIll Of RIGHTS, we must replace a non-constitutional government forthwith. I would imagine that was our forfathers reason for us to own guns.

          Our constitution is a timeless document that when used as we are supposed to would bring about much more prosperity, and happiness with in the population. Well, it does hinder the liberals agenda to do whatever makes you happy. Of course we all know the liberals live on a diet of lolly-pops, cool aid, and cocaine.

        • CB

          tea party??? i’m sorry, but that politically backwards group would run this country backwards to the days of racism, bigotry, and biased laws to benefit one group and suppress all others.

      • DaveH

        Here is the actual study:

        I think IQ studies are somewhat arbitrary. Knowledge is the set of things which we have learned through experience or teaching. Intelligence is the ability to deal with new situations such as solving problems that one has not encountered before. But in reality those solutions can also be learned. I do think some people are more intelligent than others, but I question the validity of IQ tests in determining that.

        • DaveH

          Having said that, I do not believe that the Government has a right to put contaminants in our drinking water, whether or not they think they are doing good. If the citizens embrace the theory of flouride being beneficial then they are free to put it in their own water, but not that of unwilling participants. It seems odd to me that Big Government will deny us the right to put certain things in our bodies, but then force us to put other things in our bodies.

          Let’s get our Freedom back. Vote Libertarian:

          • Dan az

            Fluorine compounds or fluorides are listed by the US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) as among the top 20 of 275 substances posing the most significant threat to human health. Fluorides, hydrogen fluoride and fluorine have been found in at least 130, 19, and 28 sites, respectively, of 1,334 National Priorities List sites identified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Consequently, under the provisions of the Superfund Act (1986), a compilation of information about fluorides, hydrogen fluoride and fluorine and their effects on health was required. This publication appeared in 1993.

            Fluorides are cumulative toxins. The fact that fluorides accumulate in the body is the reason that U.S. law requires the Surgeon General to set a Maximum Contaminant Level (MCL) for fluoride content in public water supplies as determined by the EPA. This requirement is specifically for the purpose of avoiding a condition known as Crippling Skeletal Fluorosis (CSF), a disease that progresses through three stages. The MCL, designed to prevent only the third and crippling stage of this disease, is set at 4ppm or 4mg per liter. It was assumed that people retain half of this amount (2mg), and therefore 4mg per liter is considered “safe.” However, a daily dose of 2-8 mg is known to cause the third crippling stage of CSF.

            In 1998 EPA scientists, whose job and legal duty it is to set the Maximum Contaminant Level, declared that this 4ppm level was fraudulently set by outside forces in a decision omitting 90 percent of the data showing the mutagenic properties of fluoride. The Clinical Toxicology of Commercial Products, 5th Edition (1984) gives lead a toxicity rating of 3 to 4 (3 = moderately toxic, 4 = very toxic) and the EPA has set 0.015 ppm as the MCL for lead in drinking water—with a goal of 0.0ppm. The toxicity rating for fluoride is 4, yet the MCL for fluoride is currently set at 4.0ppm, over 250 times the permissable level for lead.

          • Granny Mae


            You are so right. We can’t have fat but we can have poison ! E-Gads what is happening to us ?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I dont believe in these IQ tests either Dave, because I have taken some with people that I will be the first to tell you , without a doubt, are much, much more intelligent, smarter and successful that I ever will be, and my marks smoked them in these tests. So I cannot buy into what they are saying, because Im definitely not a genius, Im a normal guy that does a normal everyday job. But according to their irrelevant tests, Im a genius. I say not.

          • Mike In MI

            Beber, old boy -
            I’ve read lots of your posts here, my friend.
            Don’t sell yourself short.
            God bless and thanks for participatin’.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Your too kind Mike, but Im a dummy like everyone else when it comes down to it.

          • Peter

            Folks, nobody should sell themselves short by referring to IQ tests. They have little to do with actual intelligence. They are designed to test cognitive reasoning power and speed which, while important, is not a true indication of a person’s intelligence capabilities.
            I scored a little above average in my high school IQ test; yet to study at college a few years ago as a senior entrant, I sat the entrance exam and scored better than 97% of all entrants from my state, across all ages! This doesn’t make me special, it’s an indication that reasonable intelligence, plus experience and common sense, proves a person to be more intelligent than a simple cognitive reasoning (IQ) test can reveal at any age.

          • Granny Mae


            My mother did the same thing. I think what makes the difference is some people with great intelligence have the ability to use common sense with it and everything is great and then you have so smart people that don’t know enough to come in out of the rain !! My daughter-in-law is one. She has her doctoret in forensics but is as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to anything else ! I love her to pieces but boy sometimes I wonder what planet she is on that day ? My brother is another one. He too is rated in the genious area, but can’t fill out his forms for dissability on his own and can’t use a computer? I tried to teach him but it just didn’t get through! Then again I’m not all that great on one of these things myself. But I do know how to turn it on and off !!!! As for you my friend, you are a smart man charlie brown ! You use common sense with your brains and thet makes all the difference ! I like reading your posts ! God Bless !

          • Granny Mae

            HOLY COW,

            Look at all the words I messed up in that post ! LOL ! Do you think one day my fingers and my thoughts will get together at the same time and things will begin to work out? Probably not, by then it will be a day when the fingers aren’t working right ! Oh Well, life goes on !

      • Peter

        MrFlippy, the percentage may be wrong, but history shows the effects of fluoride on the human brain are extremely negative. I wondered for years why and how so many Jews complied so easily with Nazi directions that led to their deaths, until my research led me to a little publicized fact. The German pharmaceutical company IG Farben manufactured fluoride. The Nazis found out about its effects on the brain and the fact it is cheap to make, and used it as a ‘food’ additive in the concentration camps. The inmates’ brains became addled very quickly, and the Nazis were able to make them comply with directions very easily. History shows the Nazis actively sought the cheapest and most effective ways to kill large quantities of Jews, as bullets were too expensive. References to all this are available from a number of sources, but because fluoride didn’t directly ‘kill’ Nazi prisoners, the media and war prosecutors chose to ignore it to a large degree. After all, IG Farben were ‘only doing business’, weren’t they? Just like all pharmaceutical companies today, who spend 85% of their expenditure budgets on marketing, and only 15% on research, much of which is discarded if it doesn’t lead to profit maximization. I read a quote from a biotech analyst in Seattle a couple of years ago. He said, “There are 2 possible disasters when you’re testing a new drug or chemical. The first is if you kill people, that’s obvious. The second is if you CURE THEM!” (emphasis mine) “The very best drugs are those that can be used chronically for a very long time!” Folks, this is because pharmaceutical companies are ONLY interested in profit. They are more profitable than oil companies! They have more cash than the oil sheiks of the middle east! This is fact, not fiction, and the FDA, like all of America’s government, is for sale to the highest bidder.

        • Robert Simmons

          I agree with the posting that Pharmacuetical companies are not interested in marketing an item that is capable of curing people as I have witnessed that first hand. There is a company that manufactures an all natural product which was originally created for the pharma companies to sell but because it helps people with serious illnesses recover quickly they refused to be involved with it. I suffered from internal bleeding for almost twenty years because of being poisoned and the so called medical profession could not help me.However after twelve days of using the product I was healed and the bleeding did not come back after I stopped taking the product some six months ago.
          People with terminal cancer who are told by the doctors that they are going to die in two months or less have had complete recoveries during that same time frame and alzhiemers patients regain complete mental clarity on it as well as diabetics healing the wounds on their feetquickly and avoiding unnecessary amputations.This product is actually listed in the physicians desk reference but no medical doctor will ever tell you about it because it is a natural product which works on healing a damaged immune system which is the part of the body which has to be healed first when afflicted with disease.
          Although this product is now being used by cancer and autism research centers in America the manufacturer still can not say it will cure an illness even though it helps tens of thousands worldwide.

          • Granny Mae

            Robert Simmons,

            I would be interrested in knowing about this product since I have lupus which is an auto immune disease along with arthritis and several other problems. Can you tell me what it is? If you would rather you could e-mail me at heyyou63plus2

        • Granny Mae

          These pharmaceutical companies just have no heart. My husband went to pick up my diabetes medicine today and within a year it has raised in price from $178.00 to $375.00 for a month supply. I wish I knew what in the world caused that price to go up so much. It has been on the market for many years so they can’t say they are trying to get their costs of development back. I’m wondering if this isn’t their way to force people to go on the Obama care plan? Your meds. are going to be so expensive that you will have to join to get them at a reasonable price ! This is price gouging and should be stopped !

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Vigilant,

      You are correct. It should have read “intelligence levels.” The story has been corrected.

      Best wishes,

      • Wizzid

        I’m sorry, Bob, I still don’t get it. Please define what you mean by “intelligence levels” and how they were measured. And, do you really mean 350% “higher”, or 350% “as high”? [The first case means multiplying by 4.5, the second 3.5.] One more thing, specifically, what do you mean by “higher-than-average fluoride levels” and “lower-than-average levels”? Numbers would be useful in understanding the validity of this study.

    • EddieW

      We can’t depend on EPA (Enviromental PERMISSIVE Agency) to do much of anything…When radiation was found in water in 16 states, the EPA decided not to regulate toxins in water…I wrote themm…If you don’t regulate toxins in our water supply…that makes anything else you do irrevelant!!! Since Dept. of Defense is the cause of radiation…they didn’t want to make them clean it up!!!

      • Mike In MI

        Eddie W. -
        I don’t believe that is the reason they don’t want to fix the radiation. ANY source of increased radiation, whether it is naturally occurring radon or whatever else is the source, will raise the incidence of cancers and oxidation-redux reactions IN people’s bodies. The result of that will always be immune system suppression, higher risk of all kinds of diseases and genetic mutations (which they will say is “Good” because it speeds up the processes of evolution and the potential for “The Higher Human” they seek).
        Of course if The Higher Human ever appears THEY’LL be certain to recognize it and weed out everything else they, Progressives, don’t want. The “weeding out” won’t be exactly as the normal Theory said survival-of-the-fittest might do it. But, then they think they’re about as close to being god as is humanly possible at this time. So, they get to make the determinations – “Let the games begin!”.

      • Bruce

        Eddie, Perhaps you should look into who owns 90% of the water that is used in the United States. What you will find is that the EPA has no control over them. Why most of the alledged water companys in the US as in what ever state you’re in were sold to the French years ago. Keep in mind that bottled water has to comply with no standards of any kind.

        So in fact radiation in the water is just the tip of the ice burg let alone the Fluoride after all nearly all foods we eat are radiated at some point.
        Thus the waste byproducts that humans make also filters back into the water supply right along with all the drugs that Humans use.
        Then compound that with waste land fills of what also leach into the water supply.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I have seen many, many reports done on bottle water, and it seems that almost all of them, contain as many contaminants as the tap water they compared them. So just how do they get away with it? They put a filter on the tap they fill them out of, and and sell it as pure filtered water, but it is far from being pure. So I would think that constitutes false advertisement, but yet, they are allowed to do it.

    • debalazo

      Vigi, a mathematical error doesn’t dispel the fact that fluoride cowers, maims, and kills, as with cancer. It should simply be avoided by us, and the government should keep its tentacles out of our mouths and brains.

      Google these, then fight the government to stop this crime:
      Fluoride – Nazi and Bolshevik Mind Control
      Fluoride in water kills cells
      Fluoride is toxic waste

      Dynamite, against today’s Democ-Bolsheviks… Oops! Am inviting ‘violence’ with my speech, according to latest Democ-Bolshevik brain-mouth tightening rules! Maybe because am not fluoridated anymore?

      • Mike In MI

        Ya debalzo -
        Don’t b e so inflammatory in your speech. Talkin’ mean might remind them of what they produce out in Hollywood, and put on TV, and put in video games to sell our kids, and put in the newspapers and radio, and how BO’s stinkin’ mouth blats off about anybody he doesn’t like, and, and, and… They don’t want us to do anything that brings up the subject of their guiltinesses. You have been assigned to go to confession at the local Democratic County Headquarters and be assigned your mind correction penance of sitting and listening to the messiah’s weekly talk tothe neigh-shun.

        • Granny Mae

          Mike In MI,

          LOL ! I have been to a few confessions in my time but that would be one to put in the scrap book ! Love it. LOL !

    • JMF

      V, You are correct!
      Just another example of what our educational system produces: too many high school students who can not read or write, too many college freshmen who need remedial courses in math and science (which should have been addressed in high school), too many college graduates who read at a ninth grade high school level, corporations screaming about job applicants who: lack the ability to think “outside-the-box”, inability to make meaningful decisions, more concerned about “how many vacation, personal, sick, days do I get etc…! Is it any wonder why our student population, at all levels, scores well below the global average in the most important courses i.e., Mathematics and Science!

  • Karolyn


  • Dan

    This might explain why a lot of children are “diagnosed with ADHD” discounting the boys who are simply being boys thing. Personally I believe a lot of it has been a product of poor or no parenting I may be wrong if there is a link to ADHD.

    • PrivateCitizen101

      Dan, When I read these types of article’s,the first thing that comes to my mind is,”could THIS be one of the reasons,why 2 out of my 4 children,have been recently diagnosed with ADD?” The other 2 admit to feeling like they have it too. And also,this explains why they have the ‘white spots’ on their teeth. I can assure you,that ‘I’ run my home,my children don’t:respect,manor’s and proper behavior-old school style.Behavior has never been an issue that would have lead me to suspect they had ADD(other than the obvious signs). It was an issue of concentration and focus in their learning of school subject’s. Not all kids who have behavior problems,have Add/Adhd,and not all kids that have Add/Adhd,have behavior issue’s. Why is it that 20 years ago,we never heard of ADD/ADHD and several other ‘new’ medical condition’s,as well?

      • j.McConnell

        Years ago someone may have been considered “shy” but now it is “social anxiety disorder”. As long as big pharmaceutical companies have a say as to what constitutes a disorder, disease or condition this will continue. Look at what was considered normal blood pressure or cholesterol readings 20 years ago compared to now.

      • Granny Mae

        I wish I could get people to listen to me for just a period of a week or two and do a little test. I don’t know what causes ADD/ADHD but I do know what effects it on the negative side. Please do this. Take your children off all food dyes and food additives for a period of three weeks. It takes that long for everything to get out of the system. For the first week milk and water to drink only. No foods that are not home made and the only fruitallowed is pears. Make everything from scratch no box mixes or pre packaged foods. After the first week you can add other fruits but nothing that isn’t made from scratch. It is hard because people are so use to packaged foods and frozen foods and all of these have something in them. Look at the ingredients of everything you by. A trick is to read the ingredients from the bottom up as the food dyes are at the bottom of most things. No sodas on candy unless it is chocolate only. No birthday cakes with colored frostings and don’t be fooled into thinking just because something is white in color it is ok, because it isn’t. White products usually have blue or red dye in them that includes marshmallows and also the cream! Do this faithfully for three weeks and I guarentee you will see an amazing change in your children! In some it happens in the first week. These dyes are effecting their brains. You even have to watch medicines and pills. Any with color need to be avoided. My grown son came into the house one day and was fine when he first came in. In his hand he had a GatorAde that he promptly opened. After two or three drinks he started bouncing his leg and tapping his hand then his voice got louder. I took that darn thing away from him and threw it away ! My grandson was hyper and he has lived with us since he was 2 years old. I noticed he just was on the go all the time untill he dropped ! I started taking him off everything and he calmed right down. On day he came in the house from playing at his friends house down the street and he was really wired ! I tried to talk to him but I couldn’t get him to keep looking at me. He would try but his little head would just want to keep turning away and his eyes were trying to stay on me ! I noticed on his shirt he had some spilled kool-aid! RED ! I said Gage what have you been drinking? Nothing! Did you have some kool-aid down the street? No ! Hum ! Thewn what is that all over your shirt? I don’t know ! LOL ! Poor baby ! The neighbor didn’t know and had given him some kool-aid along with her kids ! Also had that happen when I gave him a headache tablet! One end was red and one end was yellow! Within two minutes that did a number on him! If you do this test for even one week faithfully you will most likely know if it is effecting your child. Gage got to where he looked for the dyes himself because as he would say “they make me crazy” ! Adults have this problem too so don’t think that it is just confined to children. Check out yourself too and see if you notice a difference ! Please do it, I promise you , you will be surprised. We look at everything now and it has been for 14 years so it has all become habit and easy to us now. We even had to tell the teachers at school not to give him candy or certain cookies or fruit punch or press on tattoos as a reward ! We took up things for her to give gage that he could have.
        Some people that know their children have a hyper problem make excuses for their behavior and you shouldn’t do that. Bad behavior is bad behavior, however it is a lot easier for the hyper child to mis-behave. It seems to be impulsive ! After you get them off the dyes then you can work on the behavior and most of the time the kids will work with you. It is hard though to keep them off the dyes when they are away from home so use your imagination with that end of it. Most friends will work with you. My friends all did but sometimes they don’t look at the ingreds. because they just can’t believe there are food dyes in certain things, like Dorito’s ! There is an organization called Feingold that you can go to on the computer and they are dedicated to helping people with children with alergies to food dyes ! It is a big help. I went there and sent for their program for my grandson so I could learn everything I could for him and that is how I discovered that two of my own sons, had the problem. These are smart kids that can’t live up to their potential because they can’t focus and it is all caused by food dyes! My one son graduated school with mainly “C’s” Then he went to college and graduated with honors ! All because he knew what the problem was by then and made sure he stayed away from anything with dyes in it !

    • DaveH

      Did you mean ADD, Dan?
      Personally I think those kids are just too intelligent to be in public schools. Of course they can’t focus because the curriculum is boring them to tears. The kids I have known to be diagnosed with ADD were very intelligent people.
      When I was a kid, if we misbehaved in class, the nun would take a ruler to our knuckles. Now, they are no longer allowed to administer corporal punishment, so the preferred method is to get them diagnosed with ADD, and drug them so the teacher does not have to bother with them.

      • independant thinker

        I do not think we can dismiss ADD and ADHD totaly but I do agree many kids (possibly as high as 90-95%) are diagnosed with it that do not have it as a means of control over them.

        • DaveH

          No doubt here, Thinker, that had it not been for my strict parents and Catholic School teachers (threat of punishment), I would have been diagnosed with such.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Now this may sound funny to you all, but Im serious here. When I went to school, there wasnt no such thing as ADD, as they didnt know what it was back then. I struggled up until my junior year, getting C’s and D’s all through school, for what DaveH said above, it wasnt stimulating to me at all. Yet all these years, I did get straight A’s in spelling, because it stimulated me, because we had class spelling B’s all the time, and I always won them. It intrigued me, and I paid attention. I still remember other classes very clearly, where I would look and see the teachers lips moving, but I didnt hear anything coming out. As I gazed out the window, I wanted to be out there. Running, playing baseball, and my mind was there, instead of in the classroom, because frankly, I was bored stiff with what they were teaching me. Now here is the party people find funny, or horrible, depending on how you look at it. The summer after my sophomore year, I started smoking pot all the time. Shoot, my buddies all started in 8th and 9th grade, so I did good holding off that long. Funny thing is, my junior and senior years, I got straight A’s, as we smoked a fatty on the way to school every morning, and what it did, was narrowed my attention level to what I was doing at that time, and all that other stuff I didnt think about, I focused on the task at hand. I still remember Coach Eldridge when I walked in, saying “Good morning Chief”. After about half the year, I had to ask him, “Why do you keep calling me Chief”. He put his face right in mine, and said, “because you got those red eyes”. Oops. He knew what was going on. Kind of funny. So there you go, another medicinal purpose for pot, treating A.D.D. But its been 20 years since Ive smoked, since I have a CDL license that I rarely need to use, but still I retain it, and I get tested all the time, and my job is more valuable to me. As an adult, I have learned how to focus on the tasks at hand, which I couldnt do as a teenager.

        • DaveH

          That was a funny comment, Beberoni. I was laughing much of the way through. Don’t you love Freedom?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I do love freedom Dave, and it deeply saddens and angers me when I see what our government is doing with it. They are abusing their freedoms, and interfering with ours. Both sides are at fault, but I have to admit, the left wing liberals are much more of an immediate threat, as they seem to be either totally clueless as what they are doing, or they are crazy like a fox, just acting stupid to cover their secret manipulations they are trying to put into place. I wish they would recognize these Unites States as the greatest, best, and most free nation in the world, and would put it first above their own selfish greed, as that is what they have all be elected to do, to serve us, the people. Its a damn shame what the lawyers have done, and it is our job to keep voting them out every election until we get the ones in there that will do it right. If that means switching parties, so be it. But it wont be to the democratic left, at least not in their current state of confusion. They are dangerous.

          • Granny Mae


            I know what you mean about starring out the window, I did too. Please check out my post above this about the food dyes. I know it sounds too good to be true but it is true. A lot of children are on drugs to help their Attention problems and behavior problems and they don’t have to be. Just get them off the food dyes and food additives! They have alergies to them. Food dyes and additives are called excito toxins! That says it all ! These things are in most everything they eat. It can even be in ingredients put into other things like pizza . It is also found in soaps and lotions and just all kinds of things. We didn’t have as bad a problem with ADD/ADHD years ago because we didn’t eat as many foods that came prepackaged. Now day a child gets up in the morning and eats cereal with all kinds of colors and then they brush their teeth with tooth paste with red or green or blue stripes in it. They drink strawberry powder in their milk and it is full of red dye. Then they go to school and eat lunch there and they may get some pudding with their lunch and if it is vanilla or banana it has red dye in it along with artificial flavor. Most times it is flavored with vanilla flavor but it isn’t real vanilla. That is too expensive so they use a synthetic called vanillin ! When they get home they may have a dinner of Hamburger helper or boxed mac and cheese. Both full of dyes ! For one week check out all the ingredients you have in the things you eat and see how they add up! Check out everything, even the things you think that dyes would never be in, you will be surprised.

      • Mike In MI

        Dave H. –
        You’re correct, according to stuff I’ve read, that these diagnoses are essentially an American phenomenon. There are any number of reasons why kids get overactive in school and may need something to calm them down – not the least of which are responsible parents and teachers who love their children enough to train and correct them before they start school at four or five to control thei own minds and be courteous. Yes, it is possible.
        It is inestimably better than sending them to school to get their daily doses of Ritalin from an untrained teacher who just wants to shut the kid down – regardless what it does to his intellect or short and long term memory (learning ability) or growth characteristics.
        I guess it really only matters what benefit is realized by the pharmaceuticals company that manufactures and distributes the stuff (and similar type drugs).
        Of coure, on the other hand, if it is a real condition marked by hyperactivity in the nervous system maybe the cause can be ascribed to the courses of Pennicillin or “-cillin” derivative drugs the kids recieve for infections – especially viral infections, for which virtually no medications exist. They didn’t tell you, did they, that the “-cillin” derivative drugs are powerful neurotoxins that can get past the blood-brain barrier into the brain. Once they get there they kick off all sorts of allergies, immune system problems, nervous system malfunctions, muscle spasms and weird pain syndromes. But, what difference does that make? The medical doctors need the business and so do the drug companies. They could teach you how to stay healthy; but then they’d lose all that potential business if you get too healthy.
        Ever wonder why we have such a medical crisis in this country or why they can charge such exorbitant prices for their stuff and their services? You NEED them…badly. They know it, too. Might as well take advantage of the crisis situation…eh-h-h-h? Don’t ever let a good crisis go to waste – exploit it.
        Just wait ’til democrats get involved. Now, there’s a crisis begging to be initiated (inaugurated? ya) and exploited (exploded? ya).

  • J.M.R.


    • Bill

      Very well said. The enviromental Destruction agency could care less about the people it was designed to protect.The only protection we get is from the corporations like big Pharma,and the ones that are the bigest polluters in America. The ones that could care less about the harm that they cause on a daily basis.The ones that kill people and destroy the lives of the innocent.That is who the EPA protects.

      • wandamurline

        You are correct. Stopped taking my blood pressure medication…lost 58 pounds on my own…found out one of the key ingredient in this medication is the venom from a highly poisonous snake from South America…now that cannot be good for your body…it is called Lysenopril. Check out what your are taking…it will save your life…go holistic if you can and stay away from the pharmacy.

        • Pat R

          Try eating celery for High Blood Pressure.
          It works.

          • kate8

            Pat R – I have heard this also. In fact, a friend is on BP meds, and told me that the active ingredient used comes from celery.

            Why not just eat celery every day and forget the harmful meds.

          • Randy G

            When will people learn? Living is hazardous to your health!

    • Fed Up Texan

      Environmental Pricks Association. That is GREAT. That is a good umbrella term for all of those worthless scum up there who do not know their father’s name. Like the pretender that lives in government housing in DC

    • SusieQ

      Well, I don’t think they’re going to do anything quickly, because that would be admitting they were wrong and that, my dear friends, would open them and their dentists to a trillion lawsuits…so follow the money….

      Dan az, they need you working on the committee so somebody with concrete facts can advise them!

    • mr. myth

      If the EPA admitted or confessed to the fact that they purposely covered up the health risks and hazards of flouride, the class action lawsuits would amount into billions of dollars.

      They will never come clean!

  • J.M.R.


  • Bitter Libertarian

    I stopped using toothpaste & mouth wash with the stuff 3 months ago and I’ll never go back. What a difference. Even my Dentist said on my exam (2 months after stopping all flouride use) that my gums and teeth looked much better, and what was i doig differently? When I told him he said; “Hmmmm really? I wonder why that would make a difference” I (being a smart a$$) said…I dunno guess my teeth & gums didnt like the rat poisen I was feeding them. He said nothing…

    • sr

      Maybe it is the combination of poison water, toothpaste, etc. and breathing too much mercury from the amalgams he has been grinding out of his patients mouths!!! Don’t we have brilliant medical professionals? Maybe they need to do a little research!

      • Bitter Libertarian

        “Pull your head out of the sand and STEP AWAY from the kool aide!” LOL

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I know what you mean. I stopped using toothpaste to brush, as to me it seemed like it was sanding my teeth, and I thought that cant be good for the enamel. Since Ive stopped using toothpaste, over 10 years ago, mysteriously I dont get cavities anymore. And I think knowing what I know now, and reading what Im reading, Im done with the flouride treatments they give.

          • libertytrain

            what do you use?

          • Mike In MI

            Libertytrain -
            Just use the bare toothbrush and floss a bit to remove the big chunks.
            Then, I use a mixture of 50% hydrogen peroxide with 50% any old mouthwash (not Listerine, seems pretty harsh to me). Learn to close your windpipe, first. Then rinse it way back to the back of your tongue and let it sit for a bit. It will foam up as it breaks up bacteria and goo deep in your oral cavity. Rinse it all around in your mouth, spit it in the toilet and brush briefly. Rinse with clean water a couple times and you’ve got a nice, clean mouth to greet the world.

          • libertytrain

            Mike – thanks.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I just use the bare tooth brush, and keep dipping it under the water to wash it out. I use one of those vibrating tooth brushes. They do a wonderful job. Then Ive got these little spear looking things that you floss with to get all the stuff out from between the teeth up by the gums, and one of those little floss U shaped things to do between the teeth from the bottom to the top. Its worked so far.

          • Granny Mae

            My dentist told me to use baking soda and peroxide to brush with. He didn’t believe in tooth paste. Said they had sugar in them !

    • JRC

      Hint for you, stop eating, drinking and breathing…you will be as healthy as it can get. And don’t worry about that dying thing, after all you are a christian right? And thus should not.

      • kate8

        JRC – It is true that living is hazardous to your health.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Your absolutely right JRC. Im a Christian and I dont worry about dying at all. Ill tell you why. Last time I looked, one out of one die. Why worry about it, Ill guarantee you its going to happen. There was a time when I should have worried about it, but now that I know of the certainty of my future, there is nothing to worry about. It will be a definate upgrade. No doubt about it.

        • Mike In MI

          Amen, Beberoni -
          One of these days there’s going to be a shout heard and a trump sound.
          Anybody that doesn’t feel a sudden upward pull is in it up to the nostrils – and no coffee breaks.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You got that right buddy, were talking hard times at Leavenworth in those days.

  • http://MozzelaFirefox Jo

    Fluoride is a poison and shouldn’t be in our water, food or tooth paste. Big Pharma is getting rich of fluoride. Fluoride causes disease and Drs. are not taught this because big pharma donates large sums to medical schools. Therefore they teach what their told to teach. We need protection from the FDA and big pharma.

    • Cheryl

      You should stop using the deodorant that is being peddled to all Americans as well because of the aluminum chlorohydrate in it. Why? It is bad for your brain. You can buy a body deodorant stick from a health food store. I use one called Crystal Body Deo. Stick.

      You just need to read the ingredients label to find out what is in every thing you put in, on or near your body. There is no agency over looking the products that fall into this category (includes lotions, deodorants, shampoo, rinses, bar soaps, tooth paste, make up, nail polish, etc.), so you have to educate yourself.

      And if the FDA was overlooking this category, what difference would it make? Look at all the crap they approve for big pharma and have to later come back and take it off the market. Did you know that most of the people working for the FDA will eventually have jobs in big pharma so they do what big pharma wants not what is best for us.

  • Earle Goodwin

    The Big Wake Up Call… Read Kevin Thredeau’s book, What you are not being told about Chlorine or Fluoride thy are both poisons. You wouldn’t drink a cup of either it would kill you. But our Environmental Gov. Agency, is a farce working for big business. Filtrate your entire house’s water system: Check out Kinetico Water Treatment systems. Don’t get fooled with bottle water it’s in plastic bottles. Plastic leaches into the it does to sodas etc. Don’t ask where Cancer, ADD, and other diseases may come from as your body’s immune system is being broken down with chemicals, otherwise why aren’t you sick all the time… Your Immune protects you ! People wake up.

    • Vicki

      Chlorine, and element, is a greenish yellow gas (at STP) that has a pungent smell. It will quickly deaden the nerves in your nose and you will stop smelling it. It will kill you in doses far smaller than a “cup” of it which being gas you could not drink. (293 ppm/1 hour(s) inhalation-rat LC50)

      Fluoride is the second half of the name of a COMPOUND. Some of the compounds include sodium fluoride and tin (stannous) fluoride. The toxicity of the compound is a complex relation to how that compound works.

      Sodium fluoride (NaF) for instance has a lethal dose for a 70 kg (154 lb) human Estimated at 5–10 grams. Easily within your “cup” limit. (Ld50 dose is 52 mg/kg [Rat].) Cup being a volume measurement and mg being a weight measurement complicates the comparison.

      Tin fluoride (SnF) has an LD50 of 377 mg/kg [Rat]. which though within the definition of “cup” clearly shows that there is a lot more detail than just “its toxic”.

      Dihydrogen Monoxide, one of the most common compounds in the world will kill when ingested in large quantities. (LD50 is > 90 ml/kg [rat]) (ml=milliliters)

      The general and specific dangers of fluoride compounds is not being kept a secret by the government. There are lots of studies here

    • Granny Mae

      Earle Goodwin,

      I lived in Tampa Florida years ago and I noticed that when I took a shower there was a real strong smell of chlorine. Sure enough they came out in the paper and said that there was more chlorine in the drinking water there than there was in most swimming pools !!! I wasn’t there long !

  • http://BobLivingston Dorothy Miller

    How do we purify our own water? What is the best way?

    • home boy

      the best way i know is to boil the water and capture the steam and it will convert back to water .

    • JCF

      There are a several different ways to purify your own water. I have been aware of this horable water problem for many many years and have been doing the purified water thing. Not to sell anything in particular other than experience with these items, but the Rainsoft water system for the whole house is one of the best. It takes out all water impurities plus any chemicals in the water coming into the house. Your skin or integumentary system is the largest organ on our body, also absorbs the chemicals when you take a shower, wash dishes etc. It is rather expensive but if you can afford it well worth it. If you can’t do that the next alternative is to get a water filter to attach on your shower. They are not that expensive and you can change out the filter on them when needed. I would recommend a Katadyn water fiteration or a Berkey system for drinking water: or emergency essentials website can help you with those. The Berkey Water filter system is great for the drinking water filteration. They are well made and filter out a great percentage of the crap in our water. You can find those at Best to you.

      • kate8

        I love my Berkey. They also have fluoride filters you can add to the system if your water is fluoridated.

        I chose Berkey because, aside from its efficiency, it is a gravity system and doesn’t require a tap or a power source to work, so it is perfect for preparedness.

        • Christin

          Thanks JCF and Kate8… looks like we will have to look into these Katadyn and Berkey water filters for our farm house soon. We are using a Brita or PUR pitcher in the suburbs, but I’m wondering if they take out the chemicals and drugs in the tap water.

          I have to tell you that our electrical service, “Centerpoint Energy” in the suburbs knocked on our door Friday saying they were here to do some work on the meter and we would probably be without electricity for a few minutes. A RED FLAG went up and after my spouse said okay. I told hom no, they are probably going to put on a SMART METER. I was right and we told the guy NO and he said we all have to have one and they would probably turn off our electricity. The guy called his boss and they called my spouse and tried to talk him into it. Then I put the Smart Meter site you gave me to look at and showed him all the problems and complaints… now he is informed and with me, but I feel sorry for all my neighbors who weren’t home to say no because they were at work and didn’t know Centerpoint Energy was changing out their working meter for one that can blow up, burn, or short out your appliances and inflict radiation. My spouse’s relative says they have put them in near Dallas and they are all furious up there as their rates have gone up. After reading the Smart Meter flyer it says that we have been charging us $3.24 since Feb 2009 for the new Smart Meter and starting next month it will be reduced to $3.05… looks like they got a permanent tax off all homeowners!

          Did they threaten to turn off your electricity in CA, kate?
          How is it you have gotten them to keep their dirty hands off your meter and not change it out??

          • independant thinker

            Christin, The Brita and PUR filters, depending on which one, do take out some chemicals although I cannot say how many they remove or which ones other than I do remember seeing some say they remove lead and chlorine along with other things.

          • Christin

            Thanks Independant.

            I checked the box (duh) and it says the PUR pitcher is certified to REDUCE (key term… not eliminate):

            *Chlorine & Chlorination By-Products – Taste & odor, Total (TTHM) Trihalomethanes
            *Sediment – Nomial Particulates (Class 1)
            *Agricultural Pollutants – 2, 4-D, Atrazine, Carbofuran, Lindane, Simazine, Toxaphene
            *Heavy Metals – Cadmium, Copper, Lead (reduction only), Mercury, Zinc
            *Microbial Cysts – Cryptosporidium, Giardia
            *Industrial Pollutants – Benzene, Carbon Tetrachloride, MTBE, Tetrachloroethene, Toluene

            MAN… just look at that list… that’s ridiculous that all that garbage (chemicals)… is IN some of our regular drinking water out of the tap/faucet. Anybody NOT filtering the faucet water beware.

          • kate8

            Christin – I registered complaints with the PUC as well as PG&E (our power company). They tried to put in a SmartMeter twice, but I wouldn’t let them. They’ve called a few times, but I won’t talk to them.

            My friend has been fending them off, as well, but they are really harrassing her. I haven’t heard from them in a while, but I have no illusions that they’ve gone away. Many people have told me that they wait until you are not at home and do it then.

            Many people here have had them put in, but also many have not. That is where it stands as of now.

            BTW, CA has mandated the SmartMeter. Each state will do the same. We must stand firm and refuse to comply, for the sake of our families.

    • ValDM

      The absolute best way to purify water is through reverse osmosis. It takes about 2 gallons of regular water to purify 1 gallon of reverse osmosis water, but this process leaves all the minerals and takes all the pollutants.

      • PJO

        Be careful with RO systems. Many people swear by them, but they are not a cure-all…and the removal rate is about 95-98%. They are also quite expensive and require regular maintenance, which most people will not keep up to date. You also should have some sort of bacteria control with this, like a UV light – especially if you are using this from a well. I’m getting off the “flouride” topic here – sorry.

        You actually do NOT want to remove all the minerals, because if you drank water that had no minerals it would eventually make you sick.

        • Vicki

          “You actually do NOT want to remove all the minerals, because if you drank water that had no minerals it would eventually make you sick.”

          There are many sources of minerals you need. Water is NOT the main source. In fact the source in water is organic compounds not the inorganic ones (like stannous fluoride for instance :) )

    • http://yahoo richard

      i use a steam distiller but you should add trace minerals before drinking

      • Vicki

        trace organic minerals perhaps but inorganic minerals are not of much use to humans.

        • Vicki

          This of course is an incomplete picture because obviously there are some minerals that are purely inorganic (meaning we can take them in the form that is not from plant or animal material) such as table salt (sodium cloride) that we can use and in fact need. The chemestry is complex but the soluablilty of the mineral in water as well as its reduction reaction with other minerals are more useful in determining their value.

          The point was however that water is not the main or best source of the inorganic or organic minerals.

  • Allan Halbert


    Added flouride is one thing, and too much of anything is bad. However, flouride is also naturally occuring at different levels in water sources depending on where we live. In smaller towns or cities without floridation, but with a certain levels of naturally occuring flouride, there are lower levels of caries. In the town I lived for twenty years in Oregon, the naturally occuring flouride in the source springs is very low, almost nonexistent. Caries are very high in the children there. The severity is such that many end up going to the hospital for treatment due to spread of infection. They need emergency medical treatment before removal of caries or pulling of teeth is possible. The local hospital has declared it an epidemic due to the number of children affected. The locally raised adult population has a much higher than normal incidence of missing teeth. The town has debated flouride for fifty years, and what type should be used, if any, to bring their water to a more typical level of naturally occuring flouride. Every dentist and all but one doctor in this town support this, and it is a bitter debate to be sure. I have no stake in it, but I suspect if you were to see these children face to face, it would give you pause.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Not buying that adding poisen is the solution. Not being insensitive, but perhaps knowing what people are ingesting might shed other lights as well.
      The naturally occuring Flouride is different from the Sodium Flouride that this discussion is about. Just like the cocoa leaves the people in South America Chew on for a Natural pick up, similar to our coffee use. Take that natural thing and give it to an Italian scientist and poof..Cocaine..oops!

      Tell me this…how exactly did the people in the Misddle east survive this long without Flouride in their drinking water? How about the American Indians? Eskimos? there are Hundreds of Millios of people and scores of cultures that do just fine without adding poisen to their drinking water.
      Note-Treating teeth is Different the ingesting the stuff…

      • JCF

        We have got to start doing our reading and research people. One has got to learn to take care of yourselves. I was doing substitute teaching at a grade school recently and get this. They were sending kids to the dentist, in groups, for sealants. Then they come back to the school for snacks which includes sugary snacks, candy and pop or a sugary drink. Parents bring this stuff to school for the class to have snacks. Kids don’t know how to eat right. When working in the lunch room, most kids didn’t eat any vegetables or the entee’, they just ate the desert. I tried to encourage them to eat a few bites of their veggies and a little meat for protein, but they tend to refuse and say they don’t like it. So needless to say there are a lot of people out there that just don’t get it and are not taking care of things at home. The kids that brought their lunches tend to have healthier things in their lunch and ate better.

        • Bitter Libertarian

          Cant agree more…youi are absolutely correct. I believe Health care, and dental care starts with the individual and is the individuals responsibility.

        • SusieQ

          I couldn’t believe how stupid I was a few years ago when my children were 6 and 4 and I had sealants put on their teeth; years later, they have cavities right where they had the sealants; My new dentist says he sees it all of the time in children who had sealants – it literally seals in the sugar underneath the sealant if they are not totally cleaned – even a smidgeon of sugar will do it – best thing is to just clean and floss…

      • Allan Halbert

        Other cultures ate or still eat less sugar, and they lose their teeth earlier, just as most Americans did until about the mid 20th century. Once Americans began eating more sugar, soft drinks, etc, caries became a major problem. I don’t think the guy who invented Coke did so as a nefarious plot or realized how popular it would be. Maybe some health problems could be minimized if people lived in a restricted way, but life expectancy would go down if we toss out public health measures such as those for smallpox, polio, control of measles, rubella, tetanus, diphtheria, and influenza type b. I’m a fan of limited government, but I also recognize that problems like these don’t solve themselves because people have strong opinions.

    • kate8

      Allan – Naturally occuring flouride is calcium fluoride, a completely different thing.

      You can get this as a homeopathic cell salt, calc. fluor. This, along with calc. phos., does strengthen teeth and bones.

      • Vicki

        Calcium fluoride does not appear to be soluble enough in water to be as good as sodium fluoride. I suspect that Calcium fluoride would be easier to avoid ingesting though.
        “Differences Between Cavity-Preventing Fluoride Compounds

        For fluoride to be effective, it must properly disassociate from its compound. Manufacturers devise chemical combinations that increase the solubility of the fluoride compound. When examining calcium fluoride vs. sodium fluoride and teeth, in terms of efficient delivery of fluoride to the teeth, sodium fluoride is the desired choice because of its solubility. In aqueous solution, sodium fluoride has a solubility of 18,000 ppm, while calcium fluoride only has a solubility of 8 ppm.”

      • Allan Halbert

        Yes, so the question is how best to compensate for the lack of NaF in the water. There are basically three choices, add flouride to the water in some form, radically change the diet of the population along with its dental hygiene, or use something topically or a pill. I’m not debating the form or the source, just pointing out the suffering these kids are experiencing because of the mineral deficiency. Because the flouride in NaF is important to bone strength as well, the likelihood is these children will be more susceptible to bone breaks and osteoporosis.

        • Vicki

          Or accept that NaF does not belong in the water and quit treating the people like slaves/property.

    • DaveH

      Perhaps the studies were flawed. Perhaps there were other factors not properly vetted, that accounted for the increase in cavities. Have you thoroughly read the studies, Allan? We just take so much for granted when it comes from “authority”.
      How many hoaxs have come to us from “authority” over the decades? I can think of several. I’m not saying that they aren’t right often. But I am saying that we should not just blindly take their advice (or compulsion).
      We need for our country to get back to the concepts of Freedom. That means free choice. If you want to put flouride in your water, Allan, then by all means do that. But don’t put it in ours. Let us make that choice.

      • Allan Halbert

        Dave- The knowledge I have of the situation came from the chief of surgery at the local hospital for twenty five years, who knew the statistics firsthand.

      • Granny Mae


        They don’t have to put it in our drinking water or anything else. There is a treatment out that the dentist can prescribe where you can get the stuf and treat your own teeth if that s what you want or feel you need to do. I’m with you they don’t need to put it in our water. If they want to make it available to low income people then by all means give them that oportunity but don’t force it upon all people for the sake of a few !


      to A H: give me some facts like the name of this town. Really, epidemic of caries?? No one will believe this.

    • independant thinker

      “Caries are very high in the children there. The severity is such that many end up going to the hospital for treatment due to spread of infection. They need emergency medical treatment before removal of caries or pulling of teeth is possible.’

      Allan, this sounds more like lack of care on the part of the parents. Is this a high poverty area where people cannot afford to go to the dentist or is the local attitude about tooth care indifferent. The lack of flouride in and of itself would not cause infections that would come from improper dental hygene or other factors.

  • Chitown

    The Government has been poisoning us for decades. There are warnings on toothpastes containing fluoride, stating “Do Not Swallow, will cause death”. So if it causes death, then WHY are the putting it in our water?

    Just like Aspartame in soft drinks which has been proven to cause cancer.

    The government wants to dumb down America so they can control us.

    • JC

      More than dumb us down…they are into population control.

  • http://Persoanllibertydigest Jim

    Mr.Obama and the Congress must be O-Dosing on Fluoride

  • Frub Wilber

    I learned a long time ago that anytime the government says something is good—-its a lie–and any time they say go left you better go right—they are one giant misinformation source.

    • Carlucci

      You got it. They lie about everything and they do it all the time. How do we know they are lying? Their lips are moving.

  • Richard

    The best way to purify your own water is to install a reverse osmosis system under your sink – this will remove the chlorine, fluoride, dissolved minerals, sediment and 99% of anything in the water. Connect this to a faucet on the sink and the refrigerator.

    Replace the minerals removed by take a daily all-purpose vitamin supplement.

    If you use a lot of water, be sure to get a high capacity system (36 to 100 gallons per days rating)- 12 to 24 gallons per day will not recover very quickly when you use up all the water in the holding tank.

    Be sure to replace the filters annually and flush the system weekly by draining the tank (perhaps to fill the humidifier.)

    If you are on well water, add an in-line ultraviolet light for bacteria and a pump go get the pressure up if it is below 50 psi.

    This is the technology used by the high-end bottled water companies.

    • JC

      Thanks for the tip.
      Note though, that bottled water has flouride added to
      it in a lot of cases.

    • Christin

      What about well water… is it okay to drink without adding anything to it… or is there bacteria and other bad things in it straight from the well line???
      We are going to have a well dug out at our farm and put the lines in to set it up to hook up to our house at a later date if need be. Does well water need to be treated in anyway??

      • independant thinker

        Depends on the well. Many states provide a testing service for well water that they reccomend being done once a year to see if there are any contaminants in the water that need treating. If it is a dug well it is much more likely to need treatment than a drilled well that goes down 100+ feet.

        • Christin

          I should have said “drilled 100 – 300 feet” to get to good aquafer water. So it has to be tested initially and yearly, huh?

          • independant thinker

            Yearly testing is what is reccomended. Where I live it is voluntary but some states might require it. 100-300 feet is considered a deep well and will be much safer than a shallow (or dug) well. Depending on the source of its water it is possible for a deep well to be using water over 1,000 years old that obviously would be perfectly safe as far as man made contaminates. If it were me I would have it tested initialy then depending on the results decide if I wanted to do it yearly.

          • Granny Mae

            When we had our well drilled the man that drilled it had a water test run and it was fine so we do nothing to it. The only problem we have is our water is hard water and can plug up the shower head holes and such. I just take it off and soke it for a while in vinegar and then brush it well under water and all is fine again ! Also the soap doesn’t rinse out of the cloths as well so I have to use a fabric softener. It also puts a film on the dishes in the dish washer so I have to use certain dishwashing detergent and rinse agent . I could correct it by hooking up my water softener but the old guy around here has been busy ! I will never hook it to my drinking water though. Did that once and ended up with it effecting my heart! Everything cleared up when we disconnected it from the cold water. My dad told me not to have the cold water hooked to it but I didn’t listen ! I learned that one the hard way ! It will also effect people with high blood pressure ! It is the salt in the water.

      • JC

        independent is right. If your state doesn’t offer the se4rvice have the water tested privately. Universities will sometimes do this for you. Also, look into any and every kind of filtration system available and see if any are required for your needs.

        • Christin

          JC, the state is TX.

      • Vicki

        We chose to buy a distiller and us it for cooking and drinking. The (filtered) well water we use for all other water needs. :)

      • Richard

        If you are drilling a new well, I suggest that you get a full blown water test from an independent testing lab such as National Testing labs in Cleveland Depending on the results of this test, lesser tests should be done every year.
        Demand the well driller provide water that passes all government standards – this list contains about 100 items.
        These tests would identify bacteria, fluoride, copper, iron, radiation, petroleum by-products, herbicides, pesticides, etc.
        You never know if a nearby buried gas tank is leaking or if someone was treating the soil.

        Most local tests are only for bacteria.

        The good thing about well water is that no chlorine or fluoride has been added. I would still recommend reverse osmosis with an ultra-violet light and a booster pump to maximize the pressure difference across the RO membrane. If you have any questions

        • Christin

          Thanks, Richard, that is a LOT of GOOD info. There is a lot to know it seems just to drill and maintain a water well.

          The land is in TX out in the middle of nowhere essentially and it has been unused and untouched with the exception of a little spot logging many decades ago in some of the area and hunting of wildlife, but across the road I believe their was grazing of animals and storing of bales of hay in the pole barn that still stands with a water well nearby.

          Will take notes from your info so as to ask the right questions when the time comes to drill. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge.

  • Barb

    If flouride is for our teeth and we have it in our toothpaste, why do we have to drink it? Why should it have to go through our system? We know someone has been making BIG BUCKS from this. Our government, FDA, etc. have beomce so corrupt and responsible for so many deaths. As long as they are filling their pockets they will find a good excuse to keep this poison in our water. ADHD, ADD, Autism. There IS something behind all those illnesses that once were never heard of. But, big bucks is hiding the real causes..That could be flouride as well. Isn’t there anyone out there who has the guts to stand up against this corruption? I suspect their lives and their families lieves are in danger.. And our government is trying to get rid of the Mafia…they ARE the Mafia!!

    • Bruce D.

      Good point Barb. Whe are they trying to make us drink it?

      • Granny Mae

        Bruce D.

        It is put in most city water now days. I remember when I was a kid in Mich. (Hmm that was a long time ago) I lived in Flint and the water was piped in from Detroit and the water in detroit was fluoridated so it came to us that way. There was big stink about it way back then even. Most every big city has it in their water.

        • Granny Mae

          It is suppose to give you strong bones and teeth. It can kill you but you will die with strong bones and teeth !

    • independant thinker

      “If flouride is for our teeth and we have it in our toothpaste, why do we have to drink it? Why should it have to go through our system?”

      Because “some might not use tooth paste and/or mouthwash with the flouride in it”.

      At least that is the official line don’t say I agree with it just telling you why they say it needs to be done.

      • Vicki

        And that statement of course clearly identifies the Nanny State our government has become. Before the current nanny state if you wanted to fluoridate yourself you could buy toothpaste. Now the nanny states says you HAVE to fluoridate yourself and we (the state) will take care of you by doing it for you.

      • Granny Mae

        That is right but the biggest problem there is THEY SAY it needs to be done ! Who are they to say what I need or should have? THEY can get lost as far as I’m concerned ! You know what I mean?

    • William

      This fluorides that used to add into water, toothpaste etc. are sub product of steel production industry. They found the way how to make money on this waist material.

      • Vicki

        When Procter and Gamble did it in the 50′s that was good business. People could still choose. Now that the government is involved it is Crony Capitalism with all the faults that come from anti-competitive government interference with free markets.

    • Peter

      Barb, Sodium Fluoride is a toxic waste, get it, WASTE product from the production of aluminum. Now, if you were an aluminum producer and had all this toxic waste sitting in your refinery that you had to pay someone to remove and dump, and somebody suddenly said, “Hey, this stuff is good for peoples’ teeth!” What would you do? Exactly what they did do, they got the dental associations onside, lobbied the government and had it added to our drinking water ‘to reduce dental cavities’. This is it in a nutshell I know, and the process was far more convoluted than that, but the end result is the same, aluminum producers got to sell a substance they would have otherwise had to pay to dump. It’s simply good business, regardless of the fact it’s bad for human beings.

      • Granny Mae


        It seems it was bad no matter what they did with it! In the soil to eventually get in the water or to put it in there on purpose ! Looks like we were going to get it one way or another !

  • Bill

    The EPA is one of the biggest jokes that calls itself a protection agency. The only ones it protects is the ones that it was created to protect us from. Deep pockets is where you will find them working. They let corrupt elected officials manipulate them and force them to create enviromental problems that destroy the lives in communities, work places, schools,our food,our water(as mentioned),The air we breathe,our homes, and the list goes on and on. One example is in Nassau county Florida. Two of the biggest polluters here are Rayonier paper mill and Smurfitt Stone paper mill. My family will suffer for the rest of our lives because of them and we couldn’t get help from any one. Reason being, Jeb Bush, was just elected to their board of directors, for the second three year term. Good example of government/corporate corruption at it’s finest. Another example is our so called attorneys. What a joke they are. They’re bought off, and the only place you will find them is in the same pockets as the EPA. That’s where their money comes from. Try to get one that will defend you against corporate/government corruption. It won’t happen.

    • DaveH

      As Government Grows, Corruption Flows.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Where ever there are large piles of money, there are greedy groups gathered ready to do unmentionable and questionable things to get ahold of that money. We call that Washington.

    • Granny Mae


      I know just what you are talking about. About 40 miles to our west is a paper mill owned by Foley ! They have destroid the water in the town of Perry Fla. That plant not only effects the water it also effects the air. Foley air comes our way many times when the wind is just right and boy does it smell awful ! There is a by product that comes from bleaching paper that polutes the water and it is one of the most carcinogenic substances known to man. It is called dioxin. It is toxic in parts per trillion ! It is sick what companies are allowed to do. I will pray for your family cause I know what you are up against ! God Bless !

      • Granny Mae

        OOP’s That should have been destroyed ! sorry !


    For years I have been interested in the flouride controversy. Since we hardly ever get the truth, you have to put two and two together to come up with a valid opinion. My opinion has been from the start: Why would we want to put a known poison (containers have skull & crossbones on them for warning) in our bodies in any form?. Follow the money. Who is benefitting here? Since flouride is a byproduct of the aluminum industry, could it be that they have found a lucrative market for their hazardous waste? That is one opinion that is out there.

    Also it seems to me that if it is toxic enough to be used for pest control, why in the hell would we want to be ingesting this crap? I’ll take the safe route and assume that if it will kill a rat it will eventually get me.

    • DaveH

      Good thinking, Danny.

    • Peter

      Danny, the reason we never get the truth is because the media are lapdogs to the dental associations and big pharma. They don’t DARE present the other side of the story except if they can make a derisive comment about fluoride opponents.

  • Carlucci

    I stopped using regular flouride toothpaste and mouthwashes many years ago because they interfered with my thyroid medication. Then I started reading about how dangerous sodium flouride is.

    I used toothpaste from the health food store with all natural ingredients like tea tree oil, baking soda, etc. That was okay until I started developing major tooth and gum sensitivity.

    Since I subscribe to the Natural News enewsletter, I noticed an ad on the side of the page one day that said “Tooth Soap”. So I clicked on it and started reading about the product. I went ahead and ordered some and have been using it for four months. This product is amazing. My teeth are so clean and I don’t get that “furry” feeling on them at the end of the day. Turns out that all toothpastes have vegetable glycerin in them and glycerin sticks to the teeth. Combine that with the abrasives that are in toothpaste which tears the surface of the teeth and gums apart over time. That can result in tooth and gum sensitivity, pockets, etc.

    While I can honestly say that I miss the “rush” of that minty fresh burst of flavor from toothpaste, I am glad I don’t brush my teeth with toothpaste anymore. My tooth and gum sensitivity is completely gone and I feel like my teeth and gums are much stronger now, as this product re-mineralizes teeth. Yes, brushing with tooth soap takes some getting used to, but I will not go back to toothpaste. I also use a Sonicare toothbrush (it is awesome) and a few times a week I use a great mouthwash with Zylitol.

    I read a little booklet called “The Perfect Prescription for your Teeth” by the creator of Tooth Soap. What an eye opener. Flouride is a big dangerous joke – why do people still get tooth decay even though flouride is everywhere? Most of it has to do with how and what people eat. Fresh whole fruits, vegetables, and cheese are teh best things people can eat to achieve and maintain good dental health. Just like skin, nails, and hair, the condition of a person’s teeth are indicative of their state of health.

    • DaveH

      Thank you for that, Carlucci, I think I will try a bottle of it.

    • independant thinker

      People used to use bicarbinate of soda and I think salt as tooth paste. Don’t know the ratios or anything else about it but do remember hearing old-timers talk about it.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Not all necessarily so. My parents both had all their teeth yanked at before age 40. My brother the same at about 50, and my sister at 46. Ive still got most of mine, but Ive got my share of fillings. I have found from asking a lot of people, that this seems to be a heridatary thing. The health of everyone is just fine besides that. My dad is now 85 and going strong. My mom passed at 82-1/2 from emphysema, brought on no doubt by smoking Pall Mall non filters for 45 years. Yeah, that will do it. Other than that, theyve had great health. Im 52, had these bad teeth, (at least they were the ones you cant see), but other than that Im never sick and Im strong as a bull and totally health, so bad teeth doesnt mean bad health. And Ive seen this with other people also. And going the other way, Ive worked with guys that had the straightest, whitest teeth, and they are sick and not feeling good it seems all the time. So I dont see any connection between teeth issues and overall health.

      • Granny Mae

        My father brushed his teeth all the time and they were perfect and white and yet he was sick all the time too. His doctor told him to have his teeth pulled and it would correct his problem ! He did and it did ! Come to find out he had gum disease and the poison was constantly going into his blood stream. He had his teeth pulled when he was 32 and got well and lived to be 93 ! Go figure !

  • JRC

    Even there are enough real science publications and independent studies, as soon as a junk science and already debunked article is out there the loons have to use them to “”proof”” they’re conspiracy agenda.

    • DaveH

      Perhaps you’re right that the conspiracy theories are mostly baseless, but are you denying that there are sociopaths out there that conspire to purposely take advantage of others?
      Even if Government officials are merely trying to act important so as to increase their power and perks, they are still guilty of taking advantage of the citizens for their own gain. Well-meaning leaders would advise their followers rather than compel them.

      I notice, JRC, that you rarely add to the conversation. The vast majority of your comments are to belittle others. Do you really think that by knocking other people down, you will gain in stature?

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Elaborate/explain please. Are you suggesting Flouride is or is not ok in its present use?

    • Vicki

      JRC writes:
      “as soon as a junk science and already debunked article is out there the loons have to use them to “”proof”” they’re conspiracy agenda.”

      You mean like Al Gore’s “an inconvenient truth”?

  • Henry Ledbetter

    I have known for years that chlorine is really bad for you and have suspected that flouride is also. When we lived on city water, over fifteen years ago we filtered all our water with an activated charcoal filter impregnated with silver to keep bacteria down. I will turn 70 in April and thank The Lord have never spent the night in a hospital and my blood pressure is normally 110/70. Is there any correlation; I can’t say for sure but highly believe there is.

    • Rose

      Henry, You cannot remove flouride with a charcoal filter even with silver. Reverse Osmosis is about the only thing that can get it out. We use the reverse osmosis, got one about a year ago but my 16 year old has white spots on her teeth. We have had the charcoal and silver since before she was born. God only know what else it has done to her. I guess I was too late.

      • coal miner


        You are right. Charcoal filters are totally ineffective in removing floride,how ever activated alumina, or aluminum oxide, is a naturally occuring incorganic compound that is chemically inert and non-toxic. It’s also known as corundum, a form of aluminum oxide in crystalline form. Rubies and sapphires are prescious gem forms of corundum. Aluminum oxide (alumina) is a ceramic material that can be used as an insulator. It is also used a desiccant to absorb gases and odors, and it does a great job removing fluoride from water.

        • Granny Mae

          coal miner,
          Thanks for the info. That is good to know ! Now if I just knew how to make use of that information. Is there a filter with that in it?

          • Granny Mae

            desiccant, is that the same thing as is in the oxygen absorbers that I use in my food storage?

  • http://yahoo! NJAGI MUNENE

    Dear Sir,

    I would recommend that you buy Hygea chips from for it’s a company that specializes in minerals from the ground and are 19 in No. and do dissolve impurities right now for they ‘re still doing a research on it and will come up with better things in a short while?

    Your Njagi

  • http://com i41

    With this study being done in China, what a bunch of buffoons. We aren’t communist controlled people. Even though the Soros Socialist Democrat Party along with the marxist muslim moron sure wants us to be under control of a dictator. Any so called offical “facts” that are touted, are all b–l s–t. Take the florence light bulb, renewable energy, windmills, and battery powered pedal vehicles are the supposed envior salvation of the world. All are starting to be proven a junk science and has wasted billions of taxpayers money. The food pyramid is perfect diet to fatten any organism that adheres to it. When I was growing up, my grand dad and Dad showed me how to set rations for feeding livestock, from first starting feeding to finshing for needed butcher weight. By using a clear glass bottle, a hand full of feed and some water. Once it settled afer adding water and shaking it up, the amount of fiber and grain or cerals were for starting feeding, was 3/4 fiber and 1/4 ceral grain. At the end of complete finish ration, was 1/4 fiber 3/4 ceral grains at the end of finishing. Look at what over weights eat, lots cerals and grains in foods and snacks in breads, potatoes, crackers and cerals. For all the fruits and vegtables, like carrots, peas, oranges, apples, bananas may have fibers, but are loaded with sugars, a food fact not prsented. Vitamins and molasses are always added to any live stock feed to make it taste good to increase intake, humans are no different. When the bull about not eating eggs was rage and it was going to kill you, that lasted for about 10 years. That was until chichen production was controlled by one mega corporation. Then it was a great complete food, all confirmed by government studies. Pork went the same route. Since we have food prices going through the roof by 3 decades of paying landowners to idle 26 million acres of their farm ground, using taxpayers money. Now when citizens are paying 10- 30% more for the same item, just thank the jug heads in Congress alonh with the EPA and Dept of Ag, for higher prices. When Congress claims of wanting to cut wasteful spending, tell your Congress persons to cut the worthless money wasting programs. Cut the EPA and Farm Programs, cut completely will not harm anyone’s medical care, ability to travel or get to a job, but is causing problems long reaching for food costs and we will have to depend on foriegn countries for our food. What away to control people and ruin a nation! As time goes on more crap of agency meddling will surface, if citizens get tired of government mandates.

    • Christin

      I hear you on that !41.

    • Granny Mae


      If I was to get a calf to raise for meat, how long would it take to raise it to finish? Is it cost effective to do that? What would I feed it ?

  • smilinggreenmom

    Awful! Wow.

  • kilrntex

    I went into the military in 1971 and was sent to South Dakota after basic training. My first visit to the dentist in my life occurred there and the dentist called all the staff in to look at my teeth. He asked if anyone could tell him where I was from and got a few blank stares from his staff. “He must be from West Texas”, he explained, because there’s high levels of flourine in the ground water, his teeth are stained and this guy has no cavities. Man there’s no telling what people in my part of the world could have done if flourine hadn’t made us so stupid. But at least we had strong teeth and I still have all of mine with only about four cavities thus far. I don’t know if I believe all that I hear about these studies they make.

    • independant thinker

      The high natural flourine levels in the water of certain Texas communities is what started the push for flourine in our water. What occurs naturaly in the water and what is added to water are not necessarily the same thing. If I remember my high school chemistry flourine is the most active element and combines with other eliments readily thus there are many forms of flourides and other flourine compounds.

      • DaveH

        You remember well, Thinker. One of our chemistry teachers told us that if he was to drop a crystal of flourine in our hand, it would eat a hole right through our hand as it combined with the various proteins and such. I took his word for that, lol.

        • independant thinker

          Never heard that one but my chemistry teacher (a real nut-job by todays standards but that is another story) said on more than one occasion that hydroflouric acid was the one that if spilled on the third story lab floor you would run downstairs and watch it eat thru the basement floor. Kinda like the stuff in the original Alien movie

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            My chemistry teacher blew himself up in his garage. Never did find out just what he was mixing.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      2 different things friend…naturally occuring and the other is man made, used in rat poisen.
      If it wasnt harmful they could remove the poisen warning off the tubes of tooth paste :)

  • Henry Ledbetter

    Rose Thanks for the info. and sorry to hear about your 16 year old. For the last 15 years we have been on deep well water but may try to filter it as they now say drugs have made it into our underground water supply. Now would be a good time to contact our representatives and show them where they could cut out whole agency’s and do the american people a favor.

  • http://com i41

    When Big Mamee starting pushing the eat healthy b–l s–t, get a good look at her eating behavior. For someone who is a lawyer leech overeducate jakass who beelies up to the state trough for some pretty high on the hog meals. When hear this trained idoit starts telling everyone what to eat what crap, didn’t here much about the garden projest yeilding produce or anything productive. Cann’t travel over over the world, even with a yard staff to take care of your dream land garden. I don’t think she has a associate degree even in anytype of nutrition even for animals.Just more feel good crap, teeth care is pretty simple, I hated tooth paste after taste and all the mouth rinse after taste, my Mom just told me too brush with water and water. Never had a cavity until I went to college, and live off of water collected off of the roof, filtered by charcol or used our own well water. I have a brother in law who got his Dr. degree and started practicing in !977. He has never eaten any pork for 5 decades, always walks and hikes, eats only deer and buffola, or maybe some “lean” beef. But non stop helpings of vegatables and fruits with a hand full of vitimins every day. I on the other hand since I can remember eating breakfast, have always eaten bacon or ham, eggs and pancakes, at least beef 2 times a day with a few mixed vegs and maybe some fruit for evening meal(dinner to work men and women)! Guess who had a heart attack even though his colestrol is the just on the edge of high range. I still eat about 4 pounds of bacon a month every month, and my costeral is 96 combined. My heart beat is lower than his and my doctor has taken me off of all vitimins, since when I was on them my potassium and magneisum climbed in to high range. Just more book training and studies that are bull. I eat plenty of vegatables I just process them thru pork and beef. When this Onumnutt marxist muslim shlub and his seat buddy who lapped up Rev. radical former muslim lap dog American hater crap for 20 some years. Wonder why these two clowns spout bildge and think the are the wizards of the beltway.

  • coal miner
  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    When it comes to drinking water, I spent 4 years in California back in the late 70′s and early 80′s, and I can remember when I came home to Indiana, how much better the water tasted. I supposed that is because California runs theirs through a de-salination plant, if that is the right word, where they use salt water from the ocean. I dont know. But the water out there tasted like a swimming pool, like it had 10 times the amount of chlorine in it. We do have good water here in Indiana, and hopefully it will stay that way.

  • coal miner

  • coal miner

    More on fluoride

    Elemental fluorine and fluoride ion:
    Fluoride poisoning
    Elemental fluorine (fluorine gas) is a highly toxic, corrosive oxidant, which can cause ignition of organic material (not perfluorinated materials). In terms of fluorides in the case of sodium fluoride, about 28 milligrams per kilogram of body mass (5–10 g for a 70 kg human) are toxic.[ Passivation is necessary for fluorine because of its high reactivity; it is so easily detectable that concentrations as low as one part to 50 billions allow to detect it.

    Like most soluble materials, fluoride compounds are readily absorbed by the stomach, intestines and excreted through the urine. Urine tests have been used to ascertain rates of excretion in order to set upper limits in exposure to fluoride compounds and associated detrimental health effects. Ingested fluoride initially acts locally on the intestinal mucosa, where it forms hydrofluoric acid in the stomach. Thereafter it binds calcium and interferes with various enzymes.

    Historically, most cases of fluoride poisoning have been caused by accidental ingestion of insecticides[64] or rodenticides (e.g. sodium fluoroacetate[65]) containing fluoride. Currently most cases are due to the ingestion of toothpaste.[63] Malfunction of water fluoridation equipment has happened several times, including a notable incident in Alaska.Read more:

  • Marten

    A excellent article about Water with Jon Barron

  • truesoy

    If you read the findings by the epa you’ll notice that the issue is not fluoride per say but the amount used. So for those who fought against the use of fluoride back when the earth was flat I only have one thing to say, get over it, there is nothing here to make an issue of; even water in sufficient amounts will kill you!
    Ps.- ignorance is more harmful to your health, remember that.

    • DaveH

      Why doesn’t it surprise me that you believe in forcing your way on others?

      • Vicki

        What makes Truesoy’s comment particularly funny is that we KNOW how well different bureaucrats in government communicate. So 3 different departments decide we MUST have fluoride so they all pass regulations requiring fluoride treatments.

        We get overdosed.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And its proven that flouride is bad for your body. So just what is your point man? Spit it out, dont be shy.

  • http://com i41

    Soros Socialist Dumbocrap Party supporters of a dictatorship country. All prime examples of ignorant book trained slubs who support the phony studies and beleive it as facts.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Shoot, maybe thats the connection. Does Soros sell flouride? Maybe thats adding to all the bucks he has.

  • Mike

    First, let me state that I am NOT in favor of big government – just the reverse, and I like to have a choice, not be dictated to.
    I must comment on some of what I have read here, and I encourage all of you to do your own research. I have limited what I say next to things I believe are true, and not that controversial – I leave it to you to follow the conclusions on your own.

    Many things are poisonous, and we need them to stay healthy! They are called trace elements. Most things are not good for you in too high a concentration. The key is to understand the maximum we can tolerate, and the level below which our bodies need more. You will find even arsenic and strychnine, very well known and very lethal poisons, are necessary for good health in very small (trace) amounts. The issue then comes down to the beneficial concentrations, which is not as easy to determine as one might think. Humans vary greatly in our range of response to various chemicals. And before someone says I don’t want any chemicals, I would remind them that is what our bodies are made up of, and why we are able to live. If you are having difficulty in accepting that things that in high concentrations are deadly, and in low concentrations are beneficial, ask your own doctor. If you understand this phenomenon, then you should be able to make the leap to the conclusion that the issue is not one of fluoride yes or no, but of concentration. My personal belief is that well intentioned or otherwise, we are probably being overdosed, by too many products, with too much added fluoride, and by a higher than beneficial level in the drinking water, based on the reports. We need to be asking what is the trace element level below which we suffer, and what is the level above which 5% of the population would show some signs of negative reaction (streaking teeth or some other negative effect)? Clearly, we should not be at either extreme limit, and I would suggest we find a spot that is above the low er limit, but far away from the high limit. And that goes for many more things than fluoride!
    My 2 cents worth – P.S. keep all the politicians away from those that gather the data & publish it, so they can’t “edit” it to their ownFirst, let me state that I am NOT in favor of big government – just the reverse, and I like to have a choice, not be dictated to.
    I must comment on some of what I have read here, and I encourage all of you to do your own research. I have limited what I say next to things I believe are true, and not that controversial – I leave it to you to follow the conclusions on your own.
    My 2 cents worth – P.S. keep all the politicians away from those that gather the data & publish it, so they can’t “edit” it to their agenda. – Mike

  • N2Valus61

    My son has a 4.8 grade avg. Very smart….guess there wasn’t much flouride in the water while he was in the womb and after his birth? I haven’t had him technically tested for his IQ, so I cannot speak of what his is. I’m not one to assume, but I would say it will be above average.

  • Tara

    We need to stop this forced medication/poisoning! Take action at

  • DaveH

    Where Obama would like to take us:

  • newspooner

    Dissolved flouride ions in water, foods, pastes, and rinses will cause some of the hydroxyapatite in tooth enamel to become fluoroapatite, which is harder, but also more brittle. The harder tooth enamel is more resistant to erosion by acids, but less resilient to repair, because of the brittleness factor. The dissloved fluoride ions also can cause systemic trauma because fluoride interferes with almost every enzymatic process in the human body. Its potential for negative results is almost unlimited. The ingestion of any fluoride in the human body is just plain stupid.

    How then should we maintain good dental health? I propose several rules for good dental health:

    1. Don’t get hit in the mouth with a hockey stick.
    2. Brush teeth as necessary to get food particles and pasty crap out from in between them. Use dental floss or toothpicks if necessary.
    3. Change the taste in your mouth several times per day. If your mouth always tastes the same, then you always have the same bacteria growing there. It is the bacteria that produce acids that erode your tooth enamel. By changing the taste frequently, you change the pH in your mouth frequently enough to continually kill off crops of bacteria so that they can’t build up to big enough populations to cause dental decay. Instead of always finishing with coffee or cola or fruit juice or milk, vary your finishing drink frequently to frequently change the pH.
    4. After finishing an acidic drink (cola, fruit juice, etc.), rub your tongue over the surfaces of your teeth several times to wash away the erosive acids, and to restore the restorative nutrients and enzymes from your saliva to the surface of your teeth. Most dentists and fluoridated toothpaste ads lie to you when they tell you that tooth enamel cannot be restored once it is eroded away. Nonsense! Your tooth enamel is constantly eroding away and is constantly being restored. The trick is to make sure that the erosion is not outpacing the restoration. Actually, acidic drinks are great for dental health; they wash away filmy crap that harbors decay bacteria. The key is to rinse away the residual acidic drinks from your tooth surfaces immediately after drinking them. Again, rub your tongue over all the surfaces of your teeth to wash away the acids and restore the healthy ingredients of saliva.

    The other issue concerning the use of fluorides in drinking water is, of course, that of forced medication. It amazes me that any decent and intelligent American would not find such a governmental action to be totally abhorrent and an attack on personal freedom. Any advocate of fluoridation of public water supplies is a damn communist.

    • Vicki

      It would appear that General J. D. Ripper was correct.
      (Dr Strangelove – 1964)

  • Lee Abel

    OK so a lot of people do understand somethings but forget others, its not the fluoride that in particular thats toxic its the amount. I remember in health class before all the liberals trashed actual good text books, the amount you need to help strengthen your teeth enamel is a lot less, try moving the decimal point one. The reason for adding is that some water treatment process take valuable minerals out of the water. Minute amounts DO need to be there.
    See big issue is that CONCENTRATION of any specific compound, chemical or mineral is the issue. Its the scientific people who only study effects, THEN set standards rather than do enough tests to see what the minimum needed is.
    See its always the same thing, more, more, more.
    As for radiation in water thats normal as water is the single most erosive/corrosive natural chemical in the world.
    Everyone keeps saying radiation is bad yet we need at least 20 minutes of sun light a day to maintain adequate self production of Vitamin D.
    Also dont forget that people used to collect uranium rocks to sell the government, it never caused any issues with them, but when they first started concentrating uranium into a pure metal form, it then became toxic/dangerous.
    Heck the first time they made the metal rod/coils of uranium they simply had steel workers process it and never told them they were in danger nor that they could have caused a chain reaction.
    Too bad we cant get a lot of bureaucracy to go away and let smart people, not life time government employees , run these departments.
    See, 0.001 to 0.003 mg per liter of water (normal back ground levels in well/aquifer water)is plenty especially if you use a fluoridated toothpaste/mouth wash. But then fluoride in mouth wash is redundant and nearly useless, but then the levels are so minuscule it doesnt even mater as it can be from back ground water lever,,,depending on how much water is in it.

  • Ridge Runner

    I live in the country and have a small spring that use for water,I built a holding box to collect it.I can get at least 1000 gal.per 24 hrs.that is enough to run two houses.I done some research on water filters and there is three ways to clean the water .reverse osmoses,distilery or deionization.None of which is cheap but will completely clean your water for what ever you to use it for.Water is called a universal solvent as it perks through the earth rocks or dirt it will pick what ever is present.I have been using clorine to make sure that there is no bacteriain it but i am goin to start using h2o2(hydrogen peroxide)it is not posionus as clorine and is benefical to your health.Your body makes it that ihow it kills off germs.I would have any well or spring tested for bacteria and minerals.I worked with a man that died from too much iron in his body.Idon’t know if it was caused by his spring wateror an genetic condition but there is plenty or iron in the ground in this area.When he got sick the drs. thought he was dibetic by the time they found what realy wrong the wrong treatment had killed him.Ask your dr. and he should tell you that too much iron in your bloodcan do you harm.

  • Ridge Runner

    I have dentures and don’t need this fraud and death’s rat posioning all i use is a good mouth wash and brush with it.Idon’t use a denture adhesive because some are still loaded with zink and you can get zink posioning from it.(more fraud and death pootection)It is best if your dentures don’t fit well to have them relined.You don’t need to use any thing to clean your teeth but bi-carb and a little bit of hydrogen peroxideto brush with just don’t swallow it.

  • jimdunny

    Calling fluoride a poison is way over the top. The recommendation to lower the recommended level of fluoride in community water supplies is a recognition of the fact that fluoride is present in other sources that were not present when the original recommendations were done 70 years ago. 40 years ago the index to the literature on the research into fluoridation of water supplies was an inch thick. Using the logic of the fluoride naysayers, we would have to ban all vitamins from the marketplace, especially vitamin A. The side effects of overuse of any substance can be deleterious, but in proper dose levels vitamins are, in fact, beneficial.

    We have the benefit of much improved dental health in this country that is the direct result of fluoridation. The classic study was done years ago before there was such things as fluoride toothpaste, mouth rinses, or prenatal and pediatric vitamins. In that study, dental researchers surveyed the dental health of children entering the first grade in the test city. The number of decayed, filled and missing teeth was recorded for each child. This was done for several years. Then the community water supply was fluoridated. The number of DMF teeth dropped dramatically. After several years, the anti-fluoride crowd was successful in getting the so-called poison taken back out of the water supply. The result was that the DMF number went right back up to the prefluoride level. The study was classic in that this was study with its own control.

    The idea to fluoridate the water supply didn’t come from someone who was proposing to harm anyone. It came from the observation that there were communities in the US that had very low rates of decayed teeth, but did have mottling of teeth. When the teeth of the people in the area were analyzed, it was discovered that the teeth contained a higher level of fluorapatite than did teeth from people who lived in areas where decay was rampant. The researchers then had to find the source of the fluoride. The result was that there was fluoride naturally present in the water supply.

    Since in the population as relatively decay free the water supply had too high a level of fluoride, the teeth had white spots. Research then was conducted to find the optimal level of fluoride to get the desired reduction of decay without getting white spotted teeth. That level was the level recommended until recently.

    The recommended reduction was a reaction to the fact that fluoride is generally now present in more than one source with the greater likelihood that a greater than the optimal trace amount necessary to reduce decay was available to any one individual.

    It is sad that the anti-fluoridation crowd wants to remove the benefit because of the ignorant belief that the presence of a trace amount of fluoride is a poison. I would suggest that these same people also throw away their salt shaker. High level of salt has been shown to be deadly to babies. In one hospital years ago, improperly labelled bins resulted in salt being substituted for sugar in making formula. The result of this was that several babies died. Using the same logic as the antifluoridationists, the thing to do is to ban the use of salt in any food since it has been demonstrated that salt is a poison.

    My example seems extreme, but it is just an illustration of how ridiculous it is to condemn something without considering the dose – response level involved. To promote hysterical reactions is nothing more than demagoguery.

    Years ago, someone had a city council all set to ban oxygen dihydride. This person noted that oxygen dihydride is a toxic substance that causes billions of dollars in corrosion to ships and kills numerous people every year. The council was ready to act to ban this substance when someone thought to write out the name of the substance OH2 or more normally – H2O – water. Water was almost banned!

    The person who wrote a comment saying that he doesn’t need fluoride because he has dentures is comical in the ignorance of his thinking. He didn’t benefit from increased fluoride level in water and probably had poor oral hygiene. He thinks that teeth aren’t necessary. Most people today aren’t ready to follow him and get all of their teeth removed. Proper hygiene allows us to keep our own teeth for a lifetime. Poor hygiene has been linked directly to increased risk of heart disease for 50 years. I guess getting rid of the teeth would be an easy answer to reducing heart disease, but I doubt anyone today would want the discomfort of wearing dentures. Dentures for the majority of people work about as well as an artificial leg. Functional – yes, but not a very good substitute for having real legs.

    That we are still having this discussion in the 21st century is proof that ignorance and misinformation can still be used to trick gullible people. A sad commentary on the ethics of the proponents of removing fluoride.

    • Peter

      jimdunny, I fear you have only looked at the one-sided story proposed by the dental and pharmaceutical industries to further their cause, albeit well intended on behalf of the dentists, however the ONLY interest from pharmaceutical companies is profit maximization. They have proven, as an industry, that they can not be trusted to tell the truth about anything they produce (see my earlier post).
      There is no such thing as a ‘side effect’ of any drug – fact.
      Every effect of every drug is a DIRECT EFFECT of that drug. Some are ‘unintended’ effects, but they are nonetheless direct effects, and cannot be discounted or lessened in their importance to the equation by the use of euphemisms to describe them. It is dishonest.
      Fluoride is a known neurotoxin – fact.
      Fluoride for dental use should only ever be applied topically, never ingested. This is why it should NEVER be infused into drinking water.
      Increased levels of cavities in modern America has more to do with diet than anything. Look at any study into US dietary habits, and see how many sugary drinks and fatty foods are consumed by the average American, and you will discover where this lack of dental hygiene really comes from.
      Information regarding the dangers of fluoride in drinking water are therefore NOT ‘misinformation’ as you claim, but the product of unbiased research with the results not bearing up the previous status quo declared by the dental and pharmaceutical industries.

    • Vicki

      jimdunny writes:
      “Using the logic of the fluoride naysayers, we would have to ban all vitamins from the marketplace, especially vitamin A.”

      Apparently you are unaware of the difference between a free marketplace and the forced medication of “slaves”. Obviously the nanny government and you believe that the people should be forced to take this medicine because you say so.

      jimdunny: “That we are still having this discussion in the 21st century is proof that ignorance and misinformation can still be used to trick gullible people.”

      Tricks smart people too. Look at global warming. Look at WMD’s in Iraq. OH good point. Being liberal is not insurance against being gullible.

      “A sad commentary on the ethics of the proponents of removing fluoride.”

      The sad commentary on ethics is people like you treating your fellow Americans like slaves or sheep that must be medicated and sheared according to the opinions of the masters.


    Our Forefathers didn’t put a provision in the Bill of Rights for gun ownership so that we could all go Duck Hunting! It was already taken for granted that we had to hunt to put food on the table at that time anyway! It was the right to own and bare ARMS! You don’t ARM yourself to go Duck Hunting! You arm yourself to fend off unfriendlys both foreign and domestic! Ducks Don’t fight back! The powers that be want you to think it is a provision for you to duck hunt hmmmmmmmmm… I wonder why they want to send us in that direction?

  • Elijah

    Fluoride should not be consumed by humans. Putting it in the water and drinking it is silly. I suppose you could argue and say it would make a good mouthwash, but even then, you would or should be spitting out the fluoride not swallowing it. Excessive fluoride is certain to make your bones brittle. My water comes from a deep well where no fluoride is added. The amount of naturally occurring fluoride or fluorine in it is VERY low.

  • roarrrloud

    I just logged on and have been reading all this talk of water filtering systems,…. I know all about the plastics and poluted tap water as well as bottled water. Thats why I have had a kangen water machine for over a year now,.. it filters the water beautifully !! Then takes the minerals in the water and thru an awesome process gives me “free electron antioxidant alkaline water”. Just drinking the water for one week took a chronic cough I had away ! ! After 3 weeks my blood pressure went down from 148/84 to 125/69 !!! Then I was also on a prescription sleep aid every night—-after 4 weeks of JUST drinking this water,.. I no longer take this med. I know I must sound like a commercial===but I WILL NEVER GO WITH OUT THIS WATER,..thats how it much it has changed my life. There are a lot of water ionizers out there,..but i did my research—and found this machine is the only one that can give me stable health results ,…so all you who were asking or are concerned about your water,..(YES it takes out Floruide and Chorine just to name a few ) check out Maybe there are those reading this that already own one of these ! When I learned of what they are allowed by law to add to our drinking water—I was shocked !! It put me on a quest to find an acceptable answer.

  • Catherine

    Hi, Bob!
    Love your e-zine and your philosophy! This article on the flouride in our water is tops! (When will they put Formaldehyde in the water, I wonder? Wouldn’t put it past them!)
    Anyway, I just e-mailed a copy of this artile to my neice. She is an ULTRA-LIBERAL (!), almost a radical, really — but she too believes in natural medicine, freedom, (as she sees it anyway), and pure food and water!
    I think more people will ome to our cause if we seek out SIMULARITIES between the different groups — not differences! FREEDOM LOVERS — UNITE!

  • Leona

    Hey! I just wish to give an enormous thumbs up for the good info you’ve here on this post. I can be coming again to your weblog for extra soon.


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