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Record Number Of U.S. Citizens Renounce Citizenship In 2011

April 18, 2012 by  

Record Number Of U.S. Citizens Renounce Citizenship In 2011
The number of people who renounced their citizenship in 2011 is more than the total for 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.

Last year, at least 1,788 people renounced their U.S. citizenship; many of them did so due to heavy taxation.

In actuality, the number is probably higher. The Internal Revenue Service releases the names of those who give up their citizenship (referred to as “name and shame”), and some who renounced say they haven’t seen their name on the list yet. The IRS began listing former citizens in 1998; last year’s number set a record.

In recent times, more and more citizens have given up their citizenship. The number of people who did so in 2011 is more than the total for 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.

Most commonly, Americans living abroad are the ones who renounce their citizenship. Few countries tax their citizens on income they earn while living abroad, but the United States does. And, reportedly, the tax process for such Americans is quite strenuous.

Two regulations in particular have expatriates disgruntled.

The first regulation stems from a change to the Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts. Americans who fail to disclose overseas bank accounts of at least $10,000, including investments or an account held with a spouse, will be penalized for noncompliance.

“Disclosing joint accounts I hold with my wife and anyone I ever want to do business with — that’s just too much. My wife’s account is none of their business,” Peter Dunn said. Dunn was a dual U.S. and Canadian citizen, but he recently renounced his U.S. citizenship.

The second regulation, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, asks foreign financial institutions to disclose information on U.S. clients.

“They’re going to drop Americans like hot potatoes,” said Francisca N. Mordi, vice president and senior tax counsel at the American Bankers Association. “The foreign banks are upset enough about the regulations that they’re saying they just won’t keep American customers, and it’s giving (Americans living abroad) a lot of sleepless nights.”

Bryan Nash

Staff writer Bryan Nash has devoted much of his life to searching for the truth behind the lies that the masses never question. He is currently pursuing a Master's of Divinity and is the author of The Messiah's Misfits, Things Unseen and The Backpack Guide to Surviving the University. He has also been a regular contributor to the magazine Biblical Insights.

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  • Alex Frazier

    All I can say is … 1) I would never renounce the citizenship that guarantees me the rights enumerated in the Constitution. Although the Federal government treats the Constitution like it’s little more than toilet paper, it still is what it is, and when push comes to shove, it is our shield against any government we want to throw off. 2) Taxes are what they are. You’re going to get taxed. The taxes are going to get worse. Other countries will inevitably do the same thing as the United States. You can’t maintain a socialist utopia without taxing the wealth out of a country.

    If people want a change, renouncing citizenship is not the way to go about it. They should instead consider putting their government in its place.

    • dan

      I would neber claim to be a U.S. citizen if it meant givimg up any of the natural rights that
      I am endowed with by my Creator…Life, Liberty amd the pursuit of Happiness (ie:property) and to be secure in my home with my possesions and not be subject to unreasonable searches and seisures of said papers and property.

      • raw

        I’m not leaving America – America left me.

    • THE Man in Panama!

      Freedom & Liberty Lovers – please be advised democrats = republicans = political elite = very bad for you & yours!

    • Vigilant

      Alex Frazier,

      Good post!

    • Frank Zappa

      Dude does the NDAA ring a bell??? YOU HAVE NO CONSTITUTION ANY MORE. If you don’t know what the NDAA is I suggest that you do your homework…The short story is that you can be considered as an enemy of this country and ALL of your so called rights are suspended. So you tell me why these people are leaving, frankly I don’t blame them because of the $hift that is about to hit the fan.

      • vicki

        NDAA 2012 to be precise. As to my rights, they were given to me by my creator and not by a piece of paper. PROTECTING those rights is what the contract between The People and the U.S Government is all about. That contract is the US Constitution.

        The current and many previous elements of that government are in violation of that contract. This will be delt with sooner or later. Preferably sooner and by the Soap box, Ballot box and Jury box.

      • Alex Frazier

        Frank, the NDAA is a bad law that undermines our Constitution. I don’t disagree with you. But the reason the NDAA exists is that the Constitution guarantees us the right to a public trial, the confrontation of witnesses, etc. The government passed the NDAA because they couldn’t amend the Constitution with any sucess.

        The Constitution is the supreme law of the land. As long as it exists in an unamended form, it takes precedent over any other law passed that is contrary to it.

        So I still have a Constitution. The government is still beholden to it. The only question is, how much of a fight will I have to put up in order to have my rights respected.

      • pweiters9

        4/20/12, What’s worse, Frank, is there really is nowhere else to go. I have relatives in Canada & Australia; they have the same economic problems we do. I believe the Jews have this theory about Mankind’s survival being but apx 5 more centuries (there’s a name for it) before we all perish to extinction (anyone out there to expound on this?). We are seeing the beginnings of the end today.

      • Rage Fury

        Vicki – “That contract is the US Constitution.”
        And the Courts claim you and I and everyone around us, are not a party to it. Or something along those lines… That is why the US Constitution is always thrown out or never allowed as as evidence when people try to fight the Federal Income Tax.

      • vicki

        Rage Fury says:

        Vicki – “That contract is the US Constitution.”
        And the Courts claim you and I and everyone around us, are not a party to it. Or something along those lines… That is why the US Constitution is always thrown out or never allowed as as evidence when people try to fight the Federal Income Tax.

        Usually it is appropriate to provide a link or links to cites on the internet to support your assertion. I will say that it seems unlikely that the courts would make such a claim with respect to the Federal Income Tax since the Federal Income Tax is one of the amendments to the Constitution.

        Though there is some discussion as to the successful passage of that amendment. <– Example of a cite as evidence
        of my assertion that there is some discussion….

        • RageFury

          Usualy I would provide a source, but hey I just remembered that you have access to Google just as I do.
          Look it up if yourself, its not like the info is hidden or anything.

  • Sirian

    This is nothing new – it’s been happening for quite some time. The primary reason prior to this increase was based on the very same thing, taxes. Clear back in the eighties people were renouncing their citizenship on Grand Bahama Island at the embassy and paying $30,000 to buy a Bahamian citizenship. Again, nothing new, simply an increase due to taxes. As taxes increase, which they will come Jan.2013 and further control is installed and pushed on foreign account holders for those that may be working overseas more and more people will not hesitate to step into the roles of renouncing their citizenship. Oh how the all knowing government has accomplished another lovely feat of idiocy.

  • FreedomFighter

    The very rich and smart flee communism/socialist totalitarin states that robs wealth, liberty and freedom.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • eddie47d

      1,788 is a drop in the bucket and meaningless. Millions all over the world leave their homelands and become citizens someplace else. It may be for many different reasons like poverty,taxes or war or even better job opportunities. Now those few can come back and visit the greatest country on earth as tourists.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      And they fly into the same or worse conditions. They are the truely naive believing that the other utopias will not take their wealth.

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Since “their” goal is a “new world order”, a “one world government”, those people are wasting their time. If we don’t stop their takeover here they will be ruling everyone, everywhere. You will not be able to escape no matter what country you go to. It has to end here. The Constitution must be reinstated and all the “illegal” laws must be done away with. Start by voting for Ron Paul!

    • raw

      ain’t it the truth!?!

  • drmcgee2000

    Funny, people are renouncing their citizenship because of the Communist principle of a heavy and progressive income tax, yet we elected a President who may not be a citizen himself… oh the irony.

    • David Deal

      A heavy progressive tax USED to exist before Reagan changed things and our debt skyrocketed. The wealthy are taxed at a historically low rate. Check the tax tables history. No one has a right to criticize something without at least the foundation knowledge to make anything other than a blind opinionated rant. Obama just wants to restore some sanity to the artificially low rates presently paid by the wealthy. Clinton managed to balance the ledger for 8 years while creating a surplus simply by bumping up the extremely low Reagan rates and keeping our military spending to a minimum. Bush reignited the insanity and our debt soared again and continues to as Obama has had to live with the Bush TEMPORARY tax cuts and his two wars. I read just yesterday that IRAQ cost us 4 TRILLION dollars in the end.

      • oh oh

        Not true. For most of our history, there was no income tax, progressive or otherwise.

      • V. Flint

        Don’t be fooled by “A heavy progressive tax USED to exist before Reagan changed things”. In the 1970′s I was able to own a home, car, etc., working for $14,000 a year, and I didn’t pay hardly any taxes. Today, workers can’t live with all the taxes. And don’t be fooled by the $250,000 that we all hear about today. That’s another ruse to catch everyone with inflation in the years ahead. Of course, in the years ahead, you’ll only be able to buy things with $250,000 just like you can buy things with $14,000 today.

  • dan

    whem the elections are rigged …the intelligent vote with their feet

    • THE Man in Panama!

      democrats = republicans = political elite = very bad for you & yours!

      • Proud to be a Believer

        I know why you are there, Man in Panama!!!! There are many many places in the world that are inconsequential as far as being worldly that have much more freedoms than we do now, are a lot less expensive to live have wonderful healthcare etc etc etc. The people of means are leaving not so much over taxes but because of the Nazi type government that is evolving and the poor (Mexicans, Muslims etc.) are moving into the Nanny State. Hmmmmmmm

        • THE Man in Panama!

          Proud To Be A Believer: So come to Panama & Turn YOUR Frown Upside Down!

          • Proud to be a Believer

            Thinking seriously of this. Lived there in the 60′s for 8 years and loved it!!! I didn’t want to come back to the States but my husband did so here is where we are. Love your pension program.

    • raw

      couldn’t have said it better myself!

      • raw

        this reply was meant for Dan’s comment: the intelligent vote with their feet…(stupid computer…)

  • JoMama

    What…………..??? They re-nounced their citizenship……………???
    I’m staying right here – just to piss them off………!!

  • Juan Ra

    And all those rich citizens are happy to leave with their money to create jobs abroad. That’s what every body who knows anything about economics told this president and he still acted as an ignorant of the facts. European rich people moved out of Europe when the times got tough, South African afluent move out of Suth Africa when Mandela got to power. It is time to move to New Zealand of Australia they don’t have communist governments yet. Some of the exceptions to capital fleeing a country will be China and Russia: Mao killed the upper class(execited them all) & Lennin starved to death the middle and upper class, bombing factories, closing churches and letting his good freind Mr Molotov (who by the way has a bomb named after himself) go bezerk all over the productive classes.

  • http://N/A HapHarris

    I’m an old man with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. PLEASE, PLEASE bury me at sea.

    • Vigilant

      You should change your screen name to “Philip Nolan.” If you haven’t done it, you should read Edward Everett Hale’s short story “The Man Without a Country.”

  • Lisa

    I am currently applying for Australian citizenship (have been living here almost 10 years). The taxes are high here, and the cost of living is higher than the US. But paying taxes here and in the US is not feasible. I see The US going down a dead end road with no U-turn lane. I don’t see how a new administration can even change direction. A new president in 2013 won’t change what happens in congress. I will miss voting, but I vote absentee in Illinois, so my vote doesn’t really count anyway.

    • mitakuwe

      The state of Illinois…. what a mess! It’s completely comunistic, people are taxed to death, the ONLY state where concealed carry & self defense is forbidden. How many recent govenors are in jail? Illinois is a sickening premoinition of what is to come when the Constitution becomes completely meaningless to politicians. It’s where I was born and I am ashamed of it. That’s where our President claims to be from? OH, please!
      Oh, Illinoisare you leading the way to hell? I think so!

  • Carl Manning

    Canada’s looking more and more like a better deal every day. Their corporate tax rate has been successively reduced four times over the past 6 or so years now to a low of only 16.5% – less than half of our corporate tax rate; whereas, the blithering idiots/traitors/Wall Street whores in our government in both parties have kept our rate at 35% to please their masters on Wall Street, who are perfectly happy with our industries shipped overseas to boost their investment profits. Then, we have the Keystone Pipeline fiasco which could have helped to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. We have so much oil in this country, but we have a Communist KGB spy and Muslim “_resident” usurper keeping us enslaved to Saudi Arabia, and a Treasonous opposition party in Congress that refuses to do anything about his ineligibility. If Congress really cared about REPRESENTING US, they would do everything in their power to get rid of this KGB spy, but they have been this way since the Presidency of Bill Clinton. They never investigated Bill and Hillary Clinton’s trip to Moscow back in 1969, even though THIS WAS ESTABLISHED FACT AND COMMON KNOWLEDGE!!! Bill and Hillary Clinton are also KGB agents that were planted in the US government along with John Deutch, Clinton’s CIA Director from 1995-1996. Leon Panetta, former California Congressman, Clinton’s Chief of Staff, Obama’s former CIA Director and now Secretary of Defense, is a member of Communist Party-USA. He is also a KGB plant, having spent time in Moscow giving away American secrets when he was a Congressman from California. Allen West recently blew the whistle on the Progressives when he stated that 75 members of the Progressive Caucus were Communists. We have now had three KNOWN Communists running the CIA. There was another Communist mole, William Colby, who ran it before George H.W. Bush, the globalist NWO fruitcake and money laundering/drug trafficking/sex trafficking crime boss. Colby later had a change of heart and decided to investigate the murder of Vince Foster and was whacked when he got too close to the truth. This was the same Communist-infiltrated CIA that decided to do the inside 911 job with the Israeli Mossad. The ultimate purpose was to create a police-State in the US and drain the country financially dry just as we did to Russia with her Afghanistan war. For Israel, she got the US to fight her enemies and surround Iran. Pakistan got bribe money from the US to the tune of several billion dollars. Saudi Arabia got a check on its biggest enemy in the region, Iran. Right now at this very moment, we have a KGB spy in our Oval Office. He is under specific orders from Vladimir Putin as was recently demonstrated with the open mic with Medvedev. If Putin deems that Obama is double-crossing him or being insubordinate or is taking advantage of the situation, he will engage Obama in warfare. The Russian Generals who have escaped to the US have indicated that the Russian military has an entirely different view of nuclear weapons and troop expendability than the American military. Russian military strategy calls for immediate attack with nuclear weapons to soften up the enemy’s defenses and shock and demoralize the enemy’s troops and the American people. Then, the Russian troops are to come in amd mop up. They care not one iota about the safety of their own troops from radiation and whatnot. They, like the Chinese, have an “ant” mentality when it comes to warfare and the expendability of their own troops. Our Federal Reserve has already double-crossed the Chinese, Russians, Indians, and Saudi Arabians with the continuing devaluation of the currency with QE1, QE2, QE3… Obama’s mission is to destroy the United States from within by all means possible. It is utterly senseless to believe that the Russians will let this opportunity go to waste. There will be no election in 2012 when/if the Communist-run CIA deem the election is unwinnable for the Democoms. By continuing to elect the ridiculous, useful TRAITOROUS idiots in the GOP, we have paved the way for our own destruction! Now, if I could just convince my lunatic American wife, who is so consumed with materialism, to come with me to cold Canada, I would feel a lot more secure. She’s still living in fantasyland thinking this is still a free country. Our press is completely controlled by the CIA; William Colby, the Communist mole who had a change of heart, revealed this before they whacked him. Even William Casey, the former CIA Director from 1981, is famous for saying, “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” They have fooled many of us with the lies about the murders of JFK, RFK, MLK, Marilyn Monroe, Vince Foster, the DC Madam, Ron Brown, William Colby, “Lieutenant” Quarles Harris, Donald Young, Larry Bland, and many witnesses of the truth about 911. They have lied to us about TWA Flight 800, the USS Liberty incident with Israel, the genocide of 3000 people on 911, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, Pearl Harbor, the Sinking of the Maine, the FBI Murrah Building, the Waco Massacre, the dangers of vaccines regarding autism, the dangers of fluoride in our drinking water, the Tuskegee “experiments”, FEMA camps, and Fast and Furious. This is a government OF, BY, AND FOR THE LIES!!! There is nothing remotely honorable or respectable or even “representative” about this government. It is a hideously evil criminal enterprise run amok. It is a KGB/FSB/SVR political killing machine no longer doing the bidding of the American People. It must be dissolved by us before we are dissolved by it!!!

    • Jurgy

      gee Carl – with the gov’t being over-run with KGB plants and commies and conspiracies all, you better renounce you citizenship right quick, don’t you think?

      • Vigilant

        Kudos to you Jurgy!

        Rats like Carl Manning always leave the sinking ship first.

        Carl syas, “Now, if I could just convince my lunatic American wife…” Carl, your wife is the sane one of the pair. Please leave without her. I’d rather have garbage dumped on Canada than have it remain here.

      • Carl Manning

        It is nothing short of amazing how you and Vigilant both seem to believe we can turn this thing around here. America as we have known her is over. The American Dream has become the American Nightmare on Elm Street. Our courts, our States, our Sheriffs, our Congress, and our US Military are completely against OUR CONSTITUTION. we have no recourse but Revolution if we ever expect to restore Constitutional government. Our Congress, our _resident usurper, and our Supremely un-Constitutional Court are taking our rights away every minute they are in session, be they Democrats or Republicans. They voted in supermajorities for the “Patriot” Act and the NDAA. This is 1933 Fascist Nazi Germany; that is the government system now in place in the District of Criminals. These guys haven’t done a damn thing about getting any more jobs back to America, AND THEY NEVER WILL because they’rethe ones who sent them overseas in the first place to please their Wall Street masters. They lie to you every time you turn your tv on, and you guys want to put up with this nonsense??? Do you really believe you can defeat the US military, the militarized police forces, or the Russian military, especially after they confiscate your weapons with the UN Agenda 21 Treaty they will use in Obama’s 2nd term to bypass any opposition from the GOP. It’s over, guys. Get over it. It’s been a good run. We’re now the USSA, comrades. Our Founding Fathers knew that this Constitution and this government would only be valid as long as we had a moral people. America is no longer this figment of your imagination. Our Congress is a bunch of bribed whores who care not one iota about your faxes and emails or letters or phonecalls. In fact, they laugh their tails off at us behind our backs, especially when they are vacationing on “junkets” paid for by their sugardaddies on “K” Street. They have become a well-entrenched, arrogant class of untouchable aristocratic nobles completely above the Constitution and laws they pass, akin to the British Empire from which our ancestors rebelled. They live in a perpetual state of suspended reality inside the Beltway Bubble of the District of Criminals, completely out of touch with their Districts and States. They have set up an illegal government system that is practically impervious to the People. All attempts by the People to breach this barrier have been met with futility. All attempts by the People to be heard have been answered with deafening silence. The time for redress of grievances hs long since come and gone and come and gone and come and gone again and again and again ad nauseum et ad infintum. They laughed at our TEA Parties. They laughed at our Occupations. How much longer do we put up with their tyrannical madness??? They are itching and preparing for us to crack with their FEMA camps, Department of Homeland Security massive ammunition orders, massive militarization of our police forces, and urban warfare drills in American cities. They’re putting US Veterans on terrorist lists as enemies of the State. Soon, they’ll find a way to demonize Christians. It’s all in their diabolical plans. I no longer can say I love America or this country I was born in, and I am an ex-military veteran. I can say that because my first allegiance is to the Kingdom of Heaven, and America today represents endless evil.

      • Vigilant

        Bitterness, thy name is Carl.

        Looks to me like you’ve swallowed every conspiracy theory hook, line and sinker. It’s not in my interest to argue with you about your paranoia, but I will say this: you can’t run away from it.

        I’ll also say that nothing is improved by turning your back on it. While I share some of your concern about the sorry state of things here in America, I’d much rather stand and fight for the illustrious odyssey upon which this nation embarked in 1776.

        My ancestors have been here since 1754 and have fought in every war of the US, including two in the Revolution and 19 in the Civil War. The thought of cutting and running is abhorrent to me. Enough of us can make a difference, I believe, and if we can’t, then we can at least retire with honor from the fray.

      • antonio

        Isn’t it strange how someone like vigilant will call you crazy when you speak of “conspiracy theories”, but they are the first ones in line to send someone to prision for a conspiracy to commit a crime….That right there proves how stupid some of these people are

      • vicki

        Carl Manning says:

        It is nothing short of amazing how you and Vigilant both seem to believe we can turn this thing around here.

        Oh we CAN turn things around here. The question is just how messilly. Vigilant, myself and others here are yelling from the soapbox so as to minimise the mess. If you have a God, feel free to pray to him/her for our (and your) success. It would be better for everyone involved.

        • Carl Manning

          If any of you care to listen to the following Christian prophets regarding the times we are living in and what’s around the corner for America, feel free. Civil War is coming to America around the time of this election. Obama will reveal HIS TRUE COMMUNIST KGB SELF shortly after the election. It is about to get VERY UGLY AND NASTY. If you are not a Christian or are a lukewarm Christian, it is time to get very close to God, not close to your AK-47. Your AK-47 will not deliver you from what is about to happen shortly in America. God will be calling many of us to either leave this country or get out of the cities very soon because America’s Judgment, the Judgment of the “daughter of Babylon”, the Judgment of “Babylon the Great” for Abortion, Gay Marriage, Sodomy, illicit warfare, and Pornography is now at our doorstep…

          Download the recordings for April 18th, 19th, and 20th. America as we know it is OVER. Lukewarm Christianity as we know it is OVER. The dollar is OVER. We will be invaded by the Russians after we attack Iran, and they will decimate us. Massive destruction is coming to America because we are about to experience the wrath of Almighty God. NYC will be destroyed with fire and then wiped completely out with a massive tsunami with waves higher than the Empire State Building. 2/3rds of Florida from Kissimmee on down will be permanently underwater. Chicago will be almost completely decimated by a massive earthquake so calamitous that it causes the great Lakes to empty out across the western US. When the quake is over, it will have caused a permanent 50-mile-wide “SEA” separating the Eastern and Western United States. Las Vegas will be destroyed with fire. Hawaii will be completely decimated with nuclear ICBM’s because it is a strategic naval operations center for the US Navy Pacific Fleet. San Francisco will be destroyed with fire. Los Angeles will fall off the map into the ocean; it will be a feeding ground for sharks. About 100-150 miles inland of the eastern seaboard will be permanently underwater. The Russians will send nuclear ICBM’s all over the place here in America before they send in their invasion forces.

          Please, I implore all of you reading this to take this admonition seriously and pass this on to your families, friends, and even your enemies – every one you know. The Russian invasion will occur while the federal US government is involved in containing the civil unrest in the land. Patriots, please understand this. This is not YOUR FIGHT; it is ALMIGHTY GOD’S JUDGMENT on America.

      • vicki

        So you are saying that God is on the side of the Russians? Nice. I’m sure they will appreciate it.

        I think you will find that God doesn’t need any help in bringing judgement upon those who turn their backs on Him.

        • Carl Manning

          God used Pharaoh and the Chaldeans(Babylonians) and numerous other peoples to chastise (judge) Israel. Yes, he doesn’t need Russians or anyone to do His Judgments whatsoever. When God removes His hand of protection from a protected people, He allows other peoples to destroy and enslave us as a further punishment. The Russians will enslave us after killing many of us. This will all precede and open the way for the New World Order. These things have been seen and foretold by many Christian prophets. This November 2012 will be a time of civil unrest; many Christian prophets have already seen this, including ordinary Christians in the church who have been given dreams and visions. Obama will finally take off his mask. Heretofore, he has only shown glimpses of his true self here and there, but the real Obama is about to be seen in all of his arrogance and evil. He is a KGB spy; this is well-known already. His mission from the get-go was to utterly destroy this country. He will succeed in his 2nd term. As he is fighting off the civil unrest in the nation, suddenly, a surprise nuclear attack from the Russians happens seemingly out of nowhere. Get right with God while you still can. Pray for His guidance for you and your families in the times of trouble ahead.

    • antonio

      You are absolutely right Mr. Carl Manning. I am with you 100% and even though I too have thought about going back to my home country I have decided that I will stay and fight my enemies, police, military, fema, un, atf, tsa and dhs…
      one shot one kill arm’em up man and stand strong
      sleep with ak on bed as i do cuz when police kick in door at 5 am there will be no time to get up and go get what you need so sleep with it!!

    • Wapitiman

      Carl, Try as I might I could not wade through this wall of prose. Paragraph spacing was invented for a reason !

  • Steve

    Good reason to support HR 25 now! In case you don’t know what it is, it is called The Fair Tax proposal. It will make the USA a Tax Haven for investment capital and gain some control back from the Jack Boot thugs we call the IRS. Seems like a no brainer to me. Hey I don’t want to pay taxes either, but I think some are necessary, I like driving on paved roads and a strong military defense system. At least this is a good step in the right direction and places the collection point where it should be and gives you a choice.

    • Carl Manning

      The GOP has had now HOW MANY YEARS – I HAVE LOST COUNT – to even introduce this legislation, and it always gets canned. These guys have no intention of losing this FEAR factor on the People. It’s just another GOP “GET THE VOTES” GIMMICK they pull out of their hindside every two years to make gullible American fools think they will actually be REPRESENTED. If the Fair Tax ever gets passed, what is there to stop Congress from raising the Sales Tax??? NOTHING! A Fair Tax must be FLAT and UNTOUCHABLE to be FAIR. It must be Independnet of Congressional/Communist/Socialist Control freaks.

      • Steve

        Carl, Just wondering if you have ever read the book.

      • Steve

        Carl, The Fair Tax movement is grass roots and independent of party. It did get introduced to the congress this year. I think there are at least 66 co-sponsors so far. Besides that and to your point, what is to stop congress from raising the Income tax rates? Or maybe removing exemptions that affect you? There has been 16,000 + changes to the roughly 70,000 page tax code since the mid 90’s and more on the way. Congress did that didn’t they? Are you happy with that? How’s that working out? Want more of the same?

        How about changing all that with a 133 page bill? Taking home your whole pay check and never having to file another tax return to the IRS.

        A Flat tax is an Income tax and that is the problem. In fact that is how the system we have now got sold to us in the first place. It is a simple matter of where the collection point is and the imbedded effect it has on the economy. It allows for all the loop holes every one now wants eliminated. The principal of an income tax is totally flawed.

        The Fair Tax rate as proposed is roughly the same overall as those now paying taxes so it is revenue neutral. The big difference is every one pays it on their purchases and that is Fair. It is progressive in the sense that the more you spend the more you pay (on new items only). The other difference is it doesn’t create class envy and you can control your own personal budgets under it.

        After all who really cares how you make your money? The system we have now does. The only reason is they only want control of every one and we give it to them when we fill out our report every year. Most of the opponents to the Fair Tax are afraid of loosing that control over us. K-street lobby comes to mind.

      • Carl Manning


        Please understand when I said “FLAT” tax, I wasn’t referring to supporting the Flat Tax. I was referring to the Fair Sales Tax remaining UNTOUCHABLE. I do not support the Flat Tax for the same reason I do not trust the Fair Tax: CONGRESS WILL ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO MUCK WITH CHANGING THE RATE WHETHER IT BE A FLAT TAX, PROGRESSIVE TAX, OR FAIR (SALES) TAX. I only skim-read the book. It’s a great idea if it ever could be embraced wholeheartedly by the GOP, but it is apparent that the GOP has no intention of ever letting it see the light of day and even if it were ever to be implemented, I do not trust the criminals in DC to keep their hands off of increasing it down the road, or subsequently making it a Progressive Fair Tax. With the fruitcakes on the Supreme Court, I guarantee the Left’s and the Right’s Socialist/Statist Control freaks would immediately take it to the Supreme Court where it would eventually be ruled “un-Constitutional”. I have no faith whatsoever in the criminals in DC: past, present, and future. This government needs to be recycled with a new political paradigm before we can even hope to have a Fair Tax that an make it on its own. It is folly to believe the RINO-owned GOP will ever embrace this. You cannot remove/change the GOP from within; it must be removed from without with a Third Independent Party or parties consisting of Conservatives only. The GOP and DemoComms are Socialist/Moderate political parties which have outlived their usefulness to the American People in that they no longer represent any of us. A new political paradigm must be established without either of these parties that have both committed financial High Treason. They have both led to the suicide of the nation at breakneck speed. The only way short of an all-out revolution is with new political parties to compete against them and eventually completely replace them. Do you really think a RINO-controlled Establishment GOP that makes Ron Paul out to be a fruitcake will embrace eliminating the IRS, which is what the Fair Tax calls for??? The GOP hasn’t once eliminated ANY government agency they or the DemoComms have ever created. The GOP has never had the stomach for Constitutional government, and it never will. It is, pure and simple, another Big Government Party like the DemoComms with its own set of peculiar lies it tries to sell biennially to the gullible fools who keep electing them, like dogs returning to eat their own vomit, hoping maybe this time they’ll finally get “it”, only to find their country and their currency is now on its deathbed breathing its last gasp.

  • chuckb

    I live in California. If you were wondering what living in Obama’s second term would be like, wonder no longer. We in California are living there now.

    California is a one-party state dominated by a virulent Democrat Left enabled by a complicit media where every agency of local, county, and state government is run by and for the public employee unions. The unemployment rate is 12%.

    California has more folks on food stamps than any other state, has added so many benefits and higher rates to Medicaid that we call it “Medi-Cal.” Our K-12 schools have more administrators than teachers, with smaller classes but lower test scores and higher dropout rates with twice the per-student budget of 15 years ago. Good job, Brownie.

    This week, the once and current Gov. Jerry “Moonbeam” Brown had to confess that the “balanced” state budget adopted five months ago was billions in the red because actual tax revenues were billions lower than the airy-fairy revenue estimates on which the balance was predicated.

    After trimming legislators’ perks and reducing the number of cell phones provided to state civil servants, the governor intoned that drastic budget reductions had already hollowed out state programs for the needy, law enforcement and our schoolchildren. California government needed more money.

    Echoing the Occupy movement, the governor proclaimed the rich must pay their fair share. Fair share? The top 1% of California income earners currently pays 50% of the state’s income tax.

    California has seven income tax brackets. The top income tax rate is 9.3%, which is slapped on the greedy rich earning at least $47,056 a year. Income of more than $1 million pays the “millionaires’ and billionaires’” surcharge tax rate of 10.3%.

    Brown’s proposal would add 2% for income over $250,000. A million-dollar income would then be taxed at 12.3%. And that’s just for the state.

    Brown also proposed a one-half-cent sales tax increase, which would bring sales taxes (which vary by county) up to 7.75% to as much as 10%. Both tax increases would be on the ballot in 2012.

    The sales tax increase proposal immediately brought howls of protest from the Left (of Brown!). Charlie Eaton, a sociology grad student at UC Berkeley and leader of the UC Student-Workers Union, said, “We’ve paid enough. It’s time for millionaires to pay.”

    At least five other ballot measures to raise taxes are circulating for signatures to get on the 2012 ballot in California. The governor’s proposals are the most conservative.

    The Obama way doesn’t end with taxes.

    The governor and the state legislature continue to applaud the efforts of the California High Speed Rail Authority to build a train connecting Los Angeles and San Francisco. Even though the budget is three times the voter-approved amount, and the first segment will only connect two small towns in the agricultural Central Valley. But hey, if we build it, they will ride.

    And we don’t want to turn down the Obama bullet-train bucks Florida and other states rejected because the operating costs would bankrupt them. Can’t happen here because we’re already insolvent.

    If we get into real trouble with the train, we’ll just bring in the Chinese. It worked with the Bay Bridge reconstruction. After the 1989 earthquake, the bridge connecting Oakland and San Francisco was rebuilt with steel made in China. Workers from China too. Paid for with money borrowed from China. Makes perfect sense.

    In California, we hate the evil, greedy rich (except the rich in Hollywood, in sports, and in drug dealing). But we love people who have broken into California to eat the bounty created by the productive rich.

    Illegal’s get benefits from various generous welfare programs, free medical care, free schools for their kids, including meals, and of course, instate tuition rates and scholarships too. Nothing’s too good for our guests.

    To erase even a hint of criticism of illegal immigration, the California Legislature is considering a unilateral state amnesty. Democrat State Assemblyman Felipe Fuentes has proposed an initiative that would bar deportation of illegal’s from California.

    Interesting dilemma for Obama there. If immigration is exclusively a federal matter, and Obama has sued four states for trying to enforce federal immigration laws he won’t enforce, what will the President do to a California law that exempts California from federal immigration law?

    California is also near fulfilling the environmentalist dream of deindustrialization.

    After driving out the old industrial base (auto and airplane assembly, for example), air and water regulators and tax policies are now driving out the high-tech, biotech and even Internet-based companies that were supposed to be California’s future.

    The California cap-and-trade tax on business in the name of reducing CO2 makes our state the leader in wacky environmentalism and guarantees a further job exodus from the state.

    Even green energy companies can’t do business in California. Solyndra went under, taking its taxpayer loan guarantee with it.

    No job is too small to escape the regulators. The state has even banned weekend amateur gold miners from the historic gold mining streams in the Sierra Nevada Mountains.

    In fact, more and more of California’s public land is off-limits to recreation by the people who paid for that land. Unless you’re illegal.

    Then you can clear the land, set up marijuana plantations at will, bring in fertilizers that legal farmers can no longer use, exploit illegal farm workers who live in hovels with no running water or sanitation, and protect your investment with armed illegal’s carrying guns no California citizen is allowed to own.

    The rest of us only found out about these plantations when the workers’ open campfire started one of those devastating fires that have killed hundreds of people and burned out thousands of homes in California over the last decade.

    It’s often said that whatever happens in California will soon happen in your state.

    You’d better hope that’s wrong.

    Roger Hedgecock is the former mayor of San Diego and a nationally syndicated radio talk show host.

  • fastfood

    The grass is always greener on the other side, until you get there.

    Semper Fi

  • carrobin

    Anyone who leaves the USA for lower taxes must be unaware that American citizens’ taxes are lower than those in most countries. And for their taxes, citizen of other countries get medical care, which sounds good to me. There have been many times when I seriously considered moving to Canada. (As for those “high” taxes that US corporations pay, somehow quite a few of them manage to pay nothing–and even get money back.)

    • Vigilant


      Good luck with the Canadian medical system. You’ll probably be one of the thousands who come down from Canada for help because the Canadians, like the English, have the same broken system proposed by Obamacare.

      By all means, move north. And don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

      • Carl Manning


        And what will you do when Obamacare is allowed to stand as the law of the land in the United Soviet States of America (USSA)??? Remember, these are the same traeasonous criminals who have allowed Obama to occupy the highest federal and military office in the land without even showing any credentials. They have an abysmal record of defending the US Constitution. They will likely find some disgusting way to put lipstick on this hideous pig when it’s all said and done.
        Even if the healthcare mandate is stricken from the law, the government will create “irresistible” IRS tax incentives for voluntary purchase of government healthcare with follow-up legislation down the road that will eventually eliminate private health insurance altogether.

      • Sirian

        Hmmm, wonder if carrobin has ever thought of just going to the V.A.?? :) Just kiddin’, just kiddin’.

    • David Deal

      The people on here who mock other country’s health care systems are off base with their misleading remarks. Every survey done shows us rated well below most other developed countries in healthcare. I have read many stories of people getting meds from Mexico and Canada a going to places like India to get a hip replacement for half the cost when they had no insurance to get it done here. Also another person was crying about the coporate taxes being so high and how Canada lowered theirs. Well one BIG reason is that Canada doesn’t require as much revenue to run their government because unlike us they don’t have to spend 31% of their budget on military expences and retired and disabled veterans.

      • Mike

        Go get em, Dave. This country’s glutinous addiction to money and power is disgraceful. AND another SS scandal with prostitutes & wild partying on the taxpayers dime, in El Salvador this time. A culture of corruption and don’t care exists at the highest levels. No more taxes Mr. BigGovernmentguys! You don’t use what you have very well….at all!

  • Steve


    Yet another piece of miss-information in conception is corporation tax and the rates;
    You need to understand that the only one who actually pays taxes is the end users of a product. It is all an illusion of smoke and mirrors for political purposes.

    The corporations or business people no matter what the published rate is always imbed the cost of taxes as a cost of doing business into the products they produce. If they did not they would not stay in business. If you tax a corporation higher then they just pass it on. You pay it when you buy the product. Net result is you personally pay it anyway.

    The result is just more of that class warfare rhetoric that gets everyone hopped up on what the other guy is making. Remember the 10th commandment. Thou shall not covet?
    Maybe we should pay attention for a change.

  • Ken Paul

    I have no love for those who abandoned their country in hard times. I used to criticize the Cubans for fleeing from Castro rather than take to the hills and fight him for control.
    I feel the same way about those who renounce their citizenship. Stand and fight rather that run.

  • George Harris

    It is not abandoning ship when the Captain himself is drilling holes in it. Like it or not, this Captain is destroying our Constitution right in front of our very eyes. Only those whose eyes are closed will not see it!
    He chooses what laws he wants to enforce. His Attorney General who should owe allegiance to no one but the law, seems to be his lackey! They sue states which try to do the job that the Feds will not do. Arizona and its illegal immigrant problem comes to mind. Unfortunately, I have to wonder why the Republicans are so silent.
    I never gave a thought of relocating before, but considering the way things are looking, I certainly have to take it under advisement.

  • Petros

    I am the Peter Dunn who is mentioned in the article. I didn’t speak with Brian Nash but Atossa Abrahamian, who cites me as above. I lived many years in Canada because I married a Canadian. I didn’t “abandon” the United States–rather, the United States is coming after me and all her citizens abroad. I relinquished my US citizenship to protect me and my family against further attacks from the IRS. It is not wrong to go and study in a foreign country and decide to stay there because you marry someone in that country. If you Americans think that is wrong, then you’ve really lost your bearings and your roots.

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