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Rand Paul Takes On The TSA

August 3, 2012 by  

Rand Paul Takes On The TSA
UPI FILE
Senator Rand Paul says he has a "hate/hate relationship" with the Transportation Security Administration.

For the second year in a row, Kentucky’s junior Senator, Rand Paul, had the standing-room-only crowd at FreedomFest on its feet, applauding and cheering. (Although, there were a few gloomy dissidents I’ll tell you about later.) And also for the second year in a row, I had the great pleasure of introducing the Republican Senator and conducting a lively question-and-answer period with him.

Paul began with a story that got a huge laugh from the crowd. “As you may know,” he said, “I have sort of a love/hate relationship with the TSA.” He paused and then added, “Well, let’s be honest. It’s more of a hate/hate relationship.”

Paul related several horror stories about passengers who were abused by the people charged with making sure our airports are safe and secure. He described what it is like going through airport security. He raised his hands above his head, then mimicked a guard saying, “No, hon, a little higher. Raise your arms a little bit higher.”

While holding his arms high above his head, Rand turned to the crowd and asked, “Is this the posture of a free man?” The response was an enthusiastic burst of laughter, stomping and cheering.

The Senator then related his own recent experience. It seems a scanner saw something it didn’t like when he was trying to board a flight. He was instructed to sit in a cubicle and wait for a guard. He asked if he couldn’t just go through the scanner again, but was told no. When he complained about being detained, he was told, “You’re not being detained; you just can’t leave.”

He decided to alert the local media to what was happening. But when he reached into his carry-on bag to get his cellphone, a guard standing nearby said: “Now, you qualify for a full pat-down.” So Rand told the reporter he was talking to, “Looks like I’ll be here for a while.”

Finally, an older and wiser Transportation Security Administration official prevailed. When he arrived, he suggested the Senator go through the scanner again. In fact, he offered to take him to the head of the line. “No,” the Senator replied. “I’ll wait in line like everyone else.”

The second time through security the scanner was silent. “It looks like you have a 50 percent error rate,” the Senator remarked. “That doesn’t sound very good to me.”

A TSA employee standing by the machine told him, “Oh, that’s because they’re set to go off randomly.”

A higher-up later denied this, but you could tell the Senator was more than a little skeptical about the machines — and the agency that administers them.

Paul has introduced a bill in the Senate that would privatize the TSA.

“I’d rather have the airlines responsible for the safety and security of their passengers and their planes,” he told the crowd. He said that while many Democrats in Congress have told him privately that they agree with him (and have even shared other TSA horror stories), he doesn’t expect any action in the current Congress.

“The TSA is a big union,” he said. “And the Democrats won’t do anything this year to hurt a union.”

According to Paul, the TSA may be the second most-hated agency of the Federal government — next to the Internal Revenue Service. But it isn’t the biggest problem we face. No, that dubious honor belongs to our debt.

“We are borrowing $50,000 a second — over a trillion dollars a year,” the Senator said. “It is unsustainable. We must do something about it. And we aren’t.

“Last week,” he told us, “we tried to cut one penny from the price support for sugar. One penny. It would have saved $7 million a year. That’s not much when you’re faced with a trillion-dollar deficit. We’d have to do it another 140,000 times to balance the budget.”

Paul said the bill had a good chance to pass, but “then Harry Reid came along and twisted some arms and two Democrats changed their vote.” The measure failed.

He told the crowd not to believe there is no bipartisan compromise in Congress.

“This simply isn’t true,” he insisted. “We have it every year — to raise spending.” When you hear claims that Congress has agreed to cut spending, don’t believe it, he said. “What they’re cutting are increases that are already built into the system.”

If we just held spending where it is, we could balance the budget in 10 years, Paul insisted. “If we were to cut just one percent a year — one penny out of every dollar — we could balance the budget in six or seven years.”

As you might have guessed, Paul is totally opposed to raising taxes. He pointed out that the top 10 percent of taxpayers already pay 70 percent of all of the taxes collected in this country.

“The rich are paying more than their fair share,” he said. “If you want to make it fair, you should cut their taxes.” That sentiment was greeted with a hearty round of applause.

There was a lively question-and-answer period at the end of Paul’s remarks. The most common question, by far, was why he endorsed Mitt Romney for President instead of his dad.

“First of all,” he replied, “it’s not ‘instead.’ I did endorse my father and still do. I’ve been campaigning for him since I was 11 years old. There is no one who has worked harder for him.”

Paul said he believes “libertarians can accomplish more working within the Republican Party than outside.” When he decided to run for the Senate, he did so as a Republican. “I said then that I would support the Party’s nominee for President,” he said.

Paul then addressed the libertarians in his audience.

“If you support the Libertarian Party, I’m not going to bust your chops,” he said. “I’ve been there. I’m not saying that if you choose that approach you are wrong. But at least do me the courtesy of understanding that there’s no one more supporting of my father than me.”

The Senator may not have won over everyone in the audience. But the vast majority gave him a rousing standing ovation when he concluded by saying: “We have to believe in ourselves. We have to believe in the free-enterprise system. We shouldn’t apologize. Instead, we should tell the world that our system made us the strongest, the richest, and the most humanitarian country in the history of the world.”

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • DaveH

    I had a connecting flight that wasn’t a scheduled connector, so late at night I had to retrieve my bags from baggage claim and get on the next flight which meant that I had to go through security again. I was pretty tired, and as I passed through the metal detector it went off. The TSA agent said “you have to go back through”. So I just followed “orders” and went back through and it beeped again (of course). I realized before I got all the way through that it was my key packet, so I pulled it out, showed the guard, but she said “too late, you have to get wanded”. So I went to the wanding area, key packet still in my hand, and the guard instructed me to lift my hands in the air while he wanded me. He never did ask to see what I had in my hand. These are the people who are protecting us from terrorists? What a joke.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      I simply cannot fly. I refuse to be treated like a common criminal and face the possibility of a strip search. I KNOW I’d end up arrested because frankly I’d give some TSA goon a good palm strike to the face if they tried some of the crap I’ve read about with me. So I avoid flying. They can KMA.

      • Flashy

        Bush II and the radical right used the results of their incompetence for 9/11 to instill hate and fear in the American people. The RR folks, oh so patriotic, screamed that we needed to cede our Rights to their hides were safe. Cowards, they did not show courage and used the fact that a few thugs got lucky, Bush II and his cronies were incompetent. So they created it as an ‘attack” which required us to give up our Rights.

        They did not stand tall, they showed no courage, and they definitely did not ‘keep their powder dry”…it was wet from the urine as they showed their cowardice and peed their pants.

        And thus they pushed through the unPatriotic Act. Now that they are safe and aren’t scared that they may have to fight for their freedoms…they whine and cry that what they demanded, they got. And, following normal suit for them, blame everyone but who are the real culprits…themselves.

        Privatize TSA? Oh yeah…just what we need. More of our privacy given to private companies. Uh huh…now that’s a good idea.

        This is one agency i wholeheartedly support calls for eliminating.

        Thank you neo-cons and TPers everywhere. you got what you demanded…and we all suffer for it.

      • Oneguess

        @ Flushy: you are such a mutt! Too bad for you.

      • Geo_jojo

        Thank you for doing your part…. People just don’t understand that the power lies with the people, not the government. What do you think the airlines would do if say just 50% of the flying public simply decided not to fly under the current conditions? Seems our population (mostly younger generations) has been so indoctrinated they simply obey the government without question and do as they are told. That is a definite clue that our society is becoming subjects of a dictatorial government and they believe it’s for their own good.

      • Shane

        Flushy, while I’ll agree with some of your positions. You are yourself, out of control. Your adhominem against the tea party is baseless, as are some of your other flabbergast statements.

        The TSA in its present form needs dispanding. GW and other republicans are responsible, along with democrats for this attack on freedom.

        We do need security measures, that are measured, at our airports. But not by groping government workers with IQ’s to the left of the clapper.

        Flushy, you do yourself no service, by consistently being without self control.

      • phideaux

        Senate vote on original Un-Patriot act.
        99 for; 1 opposed; 1 not voting

        House vote on original Un-Patriot act
        357 for; 66 opposed; 9 not voting

        Looks to me like BOTH parties supported it Flashy.

      • moonbeam

        I simply won’t fly because of fear. I’ve flown before and didn’t like it. All flights were non eventful, however. People tell me “Flying is safer than driving.” I say “Tell that to the poor souls who have crashed and burned in those things.”

        To be put on a plane, I would need IV anesthesia and a ventilator so I wouldn’t trip out during the flight, scaring the hell out of the pilot, make all the oxygen thingys fall out of the ceiling…I’ll take my chances with the drunk drivers. At least I can get out of their way and not have to worry about engine malfunction or an alien gorilla on the wing when I peep out of the window. No sir, I ain’t flyin’. I watch the Twilight Zone and know what goes on, on these darn planes!

      • Vicki

        Hey Flashy. If the Democrats are such the supporters of the 4th Amendment why did they FAIL to repeal the (un)patriot act during the 2+ years that they had a super-majority in the House, A filibuster proof Senate AND a Democrat President?

        Are you telling us that President Bush had so much power that the Democrats couldn’t take care of the problem?

      • Michael

        Flashy is 100% right. If it had not been for Bush and his warmongering, jihad loving, administration America would not be in the sorry state it is in today including the TSA. If Gore had been president as he should have been since he lost despite having 500,000 more votes that the idiot Bush there would never have been an Iraq war and possibly not an Afganistan war. al-Qaeda would have been dealt with as it should have been, as Obama is doing, finishing them off one at a time from the sky. Bush turned a prosperous, free country into one menaced by the far right who have taken the place of al-Qaeda as the number one threat to the country.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Flashy: Bush II and the radical right used the results of their incompetence for 9/11 to instill hate and fear in the American people. The RR folks, oh so patriotic, screamed that we needed to cede our Rights to their hides were safe. Cowards, they did not show courage and used the fact that a few thugs got lucky, Bush II and his cronies were incompetent. So they created it as an ‘attack” which required us to give up our Rights.

        So Flashy, why doesn’t obama,(Bush the 3rd) scrap the patriot act and return the Rights previously stolen under the patriot act, back to the people?

        Because, obama loves the patriot act and robbing the American people of their freedom as much as Bush did, maybe even more. Where’s the “hope and change” that Goofy promised? All i see is a continuation of Bush policy!

      • Shane

        phideaux says:

        August 3, 2012 at 11:47 am

        Senate vote on original Un-Patriot act.
        99 for; 1 opposed; 1 not voting

        House vote on original Un-Patriot act
        357 for; 66 opposed; 9 not voting

        Looks to me like BOTH parties supported it Flashy.

        ***********************************************************************************************

        You are absolutely correct phideaux. Both parties are responsible for this freedom killing bill.

      • Vicki

        Shane writes:
        “You are absolutely correct phideaux. Both parties are responsible for this freedom killing bill.”

        And more interesting is that DEMOCRATS are directly responsible for its continued existence. They should have used their super majority in the House, their filibuster proof Senate and their DEMOCRAT presidency to repeal the un-patriot act.

      • http://http//yahoo.com sophillyjimmy

        @ Flashy, when the TSA was formed by the Bush administration it was a necessary evil and was fair to passengers, they did show more respect to us but when Obama became president he used it to his advantage to control We The People and it progressively gotten worse in the 3 and 3/4 years of his administration. It is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to his attempt at Communist rule in America. Look at is as when a law is passed giving police more power, as they get used to that new power they try to take it another step beyond the law and it becomes abusive and that is when the courts not only take that law away, they make it easier for criminals to get away with more. Just use the Miranda law as an example, in cases where kidnappings occur, once the kidnapper is Mirandized he doesn’t have to say a thing to the police and in the meantime the person kidnapped could be dying so because the police abused their power it made matters worse when solving crimes, and now we are faced with the same type of thing with the TSA, they abuse their power and nobody attempted to take them to court for it to change the laws they abuse.

    • Richard Kane

      Congress, Senate, high rankning governement officials, and some foreign dignitaries are ‘EXEMPT’ from security screening. Is this a work of ‘FICTION’?

      • http://www.facebook.com/patti.patterson.52 Patti Patterson

        Not a work of fiction. He was detained for a few hours, even after telling the TSA agents he was a Senator on his way to D.C. He and others ARE supposedly NOT to be detained when traveling in an official capacity.

    • Jeff

      So long as they didn’t find where you had your MONEY hidden!

    • Judy G

      Mr. Wood, Senator Paul, or anybody describe what a terrorist looks like? Are they male or female, young or old, light or dark skin? Maybe there simple? On the other hand maybe there brilliant. All that I can say for sure is, people have preformed horrible acts in the name of religion. Private security could not do the job before, there hiring methods vey low quailty, employee turnover rate was high. The only person that made a living wage was security manager of the airport. Screeners couldn’t afford health insurance. The airports owened the ancient x-ray equipment and metal detectors. TSA employees are not union and they are not perfect. We all are just human, not perfect and the terrorist are just human also. TSA is screening thousands of passengers a day implementing security measures to make flying safe for you in the air and on the ground. Just remember treat people like you would like to be treated. You want to get through the line to board your plane and the screeners want to get you safely onto the plane. There seems to be a shortage of civility amoung us.

      • DaveH

        Judy says — “Private security could not do the job before, there hiring methods vey low quailty, employee turnover rate was high”
        Do you have references to back that up, Judy?

        Judy says — “The only person that made a living wage was security manager of the airport. Screeners couldn’t afford health insurance”.
        Then why didn’t they find another job, Judy, where they did make a living wage?

        Judy says — “TSA employees are not union and they are not perfect”.
        They’re not Union, Judy? This article from last year says differently:
        http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/business/24labor.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1344106803-e9OKV7ViMKFy3MYl/PfoOQ

        Judy says — “Just remember treat people like you would like to be treated”
        That’s right, Judy. I don’t want people stealing my money to pay for their pet projects that I dislike.

        Judy says — “There seems to be a shortage of civility amoung us”.
        Wait a minute, Judy. You’re the one who advocates ignoring the 4th Amendment and abusing our dignity and worse with your TSA. How about you be more civil?

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          Ancient Proverb: HE WHO WATCHES EVERYTHING WATCHES NOTHING!

      • Rebecca

        When was the last time a 2 year old crashed an airplane into a building? Or an 80 year old Baptist woman cried “Praise Jesus!” before detonating a bomb that she was wearing and blowing up others along with herself? Zip, Zero, Nadda!! It never happen. The words that the flight controllers heard on that infamous day of 9/11/2001 was Allahu Akbar. Let me repeat the words that were spoken was Allahu Akbar. How is ignoring the obvious by screening those who common sense should tell you are no threat while not concentrating on those who, by the way, call themselves Jihadist and who say they want to carry out Allah’s will by killing us infadels making us safe? Why are there reports of some of these Jihadist sliping by and getting on planes only to be stopped by fellow passengers when they try to carry out an attack when they should have been stopped by a TSA agent?

  • DaveH

    Rand Paul lost my respect when he endorsed Romney. Going along to get along just rubber-stamps those who are in no way concerned with our Freedom, thus perpetuating their continued nominations.
    This pretty much mirrors my feelings:
    http://libertarianparty.org/news/press-releases/rand-paul-betrays-his-father%E2%80%99s-principles-endorses-mitt-romney

    • Harold Olsen

      Rand Paul lost my respect when he ran for Senate campaigning against earmarks. Then, as soon as he won and before he even took office he said that some earmarks are good and he’d support them. Just another lying scumbag politician.

      • GRusling

        Some earmarks probably are good… they’re just unconstitutional…

      • Charles

        I doubt you have your story straight. But, hey, if the way to cure the problems is to elect someone else and you can prevent anyone good from being in office, by smearing them as being one of yours, then you have prevented a solution to the real problems while pretending to be opposed to the real problems and their pushers.

      • DaveH

        Earmarks are a side show, Harold, the real problem is the Spending.
        If they don’t spend it, they can’t earmark it.

      • Dean Palmer

        Show me one who isn’t! Just another smiling politician in a suit and tie saying whatever they have to say to get support (read: money) and votes. They are all basically puppets of the world’s most wealthiest families (Rothschild, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Goldman, etc.), the banks (i.e., the Federal Reserve), and various and sundry multinational corporations. These people live and plan their entire lives around a world of money, power, politics and teleprompters; their lawyers counseling them on every word they say. They get in bed with whomever is in accord with their immediate agenda and gets them closer to their goals of wealth and power and pubic recognition. Mr. Paul senior at least was old and wise enough to see this for what it was and had the guts to get out of bed (as much as he could) and begin the good fight for the Country and its People. He pyssed a few important people off in the process – a situation to which I heartily applaud. I had hoped his progeny would have followed in his footsteps. Sadly this was not to be so. But if Rand can give the TSA a good run for its money, it’s a step in the right direction. I agree: keep your powder dry.

    • Shane

      God, if you say so. When did you start using DaveH, over Jesus. But will follow your mandates. The all powerful DaveH.

      • Ted Crawford

        Dave H can’t help it Shane. He is he is an Idealogue, consumed in his naive, petulant mindset! With blinders on he trudges along unable to recognize progress, blinded as he is by his idea of perfection!
        ” An idealist is one who, on noticing that a Rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup ” H. L. Mencken
        ” Cynics reguard everyone as equally corrupt…Idealists reguard everyone as equally corrupt, except themselves ” Robert Wilson

      • Shane

        Ted, enjoyed your comment. Well written and received.

      • DaveH

        I see that Ted — the supposed Conservative, has joined the ranks of the personally attacking Progressives.
        Well, at least you’ve had the honesty, Ted, to come out of your closet.
        Vote Libertarian, Folks, unless you want more of the same kind of treatment by Controllers on the Right or on the Left. After all, does it really matter what side they stand on as they’re assuming the right to run your life?
        For Personal Liberty, Individual Responsibility, Free Markets, Limited Government, and the PEACE those bring — Vote Libertarian.
        http://libertarianparty.org/platform

      • Deerinwater

        Nice placement of DaveH Ted. Such accuracy is rare. I like “ideas”, David’s has got some.

        I just wished more of them were feasible and take into account human nature where we would not be trading one monster for two monsters.

        Good ideas are a dime a dozen, the implementation and execution of ideas is where the pitfalls always lay in wait.

        A winning team is always singing from the same sheet music. It’s lead, follow or get out of the way on Capital Hill among a bunch of attention hogs and drama queens where diversion is the weapon of choice.

        It’s little wonder they manage to get anything done.

      • Shane

        DaveH, I keep forgetting. “You can really read what’s in our mind and hearts.” Thank you God, I mean most holy DaveH. For setting the example for us mere fallible humans to follow.

        Most holy and omniscient one, the one and only DaveH. Just when do the pitchforks and tar buckets arrive? For all fall short of the glory of God. Sorry! I mean all fall short of the glory of DaveH.

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “I just wished more of them were feasible and take into account human nature”.
        Take into account human nature? That’s exactly what I am taking into account, Deer. That’s why I know that giving people the power of force over your life just doesn’t work.
        Who protects us from the Forcers?
        Like this Shane character, for example.

      • Flashy

        Sane…If it isn’t found on Mises website, DaveH will insult and berate. If there is a title on the Mises website that fits whatever inane point DaveH is jabbering about, he’ll link it as authoritative support, never reading the article.

        He thinks he is intelligent. It’s good he does, someone should.

      • Shane

        DaveH, so I’m a character. Thanks. That’s usually a compliment. I don’t blindly follow the crowd, nor do I normally trust those that do.

        You have an unbeliveable opinion of yourself, and little patiences for those that fall short of your expectations. Which includes everyone. Your pointing out anyone that would merit your blessings, will easily be proven by others and myself to be less than what you preach. Leaving you to be the pious hyporite that you are most surely are.

        Our differences in opinions are merely that. Perspective what it is. But your self-proclaimed rigid condemnation of others due to your own self proclaimed self righteousness is disturbing.

        Your messiah complex is breathtaking.

      • Shane

        DaveH, I liked your comment about “who’ll protect us from the enforcers?” I really do. This is what concerns me about the this present adminstration and the topic this blogs is about, the TSA.

        But who’ll protect us from the likes of you. That have “all’ the answers. Along with little patiences for those that come up short, however short from the gospel of DaveH.

        Power does corrupt. Those with the highest opinion of themself, and the least for the nomal differences in others, “will” abuse the rights of others. I mean why not. It would be wrong for someone so “right” not to enforce upon others, actions that the ONE finds so evidently correct.

        So I fear. I take that back. I don’t fear you DaveH, you’re a false patriot in PJ’s. But I do fear and take notice of those individuals, many in our government, that claim to have all the answers, and wish to unmercifully dictate control over my life and that of my family.

      • DaveH

        The adolescents are out in full force today.

      • JeffH

        Well folks, though not a surprise to some of you, I’ll trust DaveH 10 fold over most of you. His unwavering commitment to freedom and his integrity, honesty & moral code is most certainly a threat to some of you. Personally, I respect and appreciate his contributions and his insight…and I don’t always agree. What I’m seeing here is a lot of jealousy and envy.

        I realize some won’t agree with my assessment so I’ll just it back and watch for the expected brown nose, butt kisser, coat tail riding comments. don’t let me down.

      • Vicki

        Shane demonstrated liberal reasoning by saying:
        “God, if you say so. When did you start using DaveH, over Jesus. But will follow your mandates. The all powerful DaveH.”

        Argument to ridicule. Debate FAIL.

      • Shane

        DaveH says:

        August 3, 2012 at 8:41 am

        Well, at least you’ve had the honesty, Ted, to come out of your closet.

        ************************************************************************************************

        Gee am I on the right site? Ted is reportedly out of the closet, and DaveH is very happy.

        Don’t see a rainbow at the header. But can’t not notice that DaveH is very aroused and animated.

      • Shane

        Vicky, what no consistency of character on your part. Not really a pretty picture. If you wish to criticize, be honest with yourself. Bring it on if you feel led to. But to selectively pick and choose, when and where to hold standards, and when to ignore. Is merely dishonest on your part.

        I could be a bad person and you correct in regards to the tone of my comments today. My badness has nothing to do with someone else, such as DaveH.

        For my character stands alone. So does DaveH.

        But you Vicky are also accountable. You made a decision to condemn my comments and ignore the others. Good for you. But one’s judgement is a reflection of self. Your condemation of me does not hurt my feelings. But does redirect the conversation to now include your comments and position.

        You Vicky are either having a brain freeze, are can join me at the bad boy / girl bar.

        Remember Vicky, we all stand alone as to our character.

        Consistency is part of character.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Dear DaveH, on behalf of most of the posters here, i should like to thank you for all your hard work, and dogged determination, as you always strive to offer a balanced perspective, regardless of the issue discussed. Your years of experience, knowledge, and invaluable information you share, is deeply appreciated. Kudos, my good sir!!!

      • Vicki

        Shane writes:
        “Consistency is part of character.”

        We like that about you and other liberals. You can be depended on to use the same liberal sound bytes. Constantly fail to provide cites for your more bald proofs by bald assertion. Ad-hominem attack, play the race card and other wonderful fallacies in your posts.
        http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/.

        This constancy provides readers with ample opportunity to see if Michael Savage’s book is correct.

      • DaveH

        Thank you, JeffH, Jay, and Vicki. Were it not for you guys, I might have thought I was reincarnated into some perverted 6th grade class in the Twilight Zone.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        I believe Michael Savage’s book to be correct, Vicky!

      • boyscout

        I emphatically disagree with Dave H’s “style” but, by gum, he’s got the bottom line right.

        • Jeff

          Sounds like somebody else after Dave’s MONEY!

      • Shane

        Vicki says:

        August 3, 2012 at 3:57 pm

        Shane writes:
        “Consistency is part of character.”

        We like that about you and other liberals. You can be depended on to use the same liberal sound bytes. Constantly fail to provide cites for your more bald proofs by bald assertion. Ad-hominem attack, play the race card and other wonderful fallacies in your posts.
        http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/.

        This constancy provides readers with ample opportunity to see if Michael Savage’s book is correct.

        ******************************************************************************************************

        Dearest Vicky,

        Only fools attempt to rely on a few comments to make the judgement your attempting. Knowledgeable and “fair” individual are aware of the danger of using small sampling in which to label others. Vicky, you appear even more foolish with this attempt to use an off source site, then using a limited short time frame in which group your subject. I am refering to your nizkor.org site.

        But appreciated your attempt at smearing. Showed your hand again. Too easy.

      • Vicki

        Shane writes:
        “Only fools attempt to rely on a few comments to make the judgement your attempting.”

        Fools and people who are really good at pattern recognition.

        Shane: “Knowledgeable and “fair” individual are aware of the danger of using small sampling in which to label others.”

        With ~40 posts in this thread alone and many/most of those (including the first one I ran across) being ad-hominem attacks or argument to ridicule, the danger is not as clear and present as you imply.

        That first post on Aug 3, 2012 at 11:40 am you started with “Flushy, while I’ll agree with some of your positions…..”

        1. His name is FLASHY (happy now eddie47d?) <— inside joke.

        2. He has the lowest credibility of any liberal on this board so your agreement with some of his positions is significant. NO it is not enough on its own as even I agree with flashy once and a while (REALLY REALLY long while :) ) but with ~39 other posts the pattern is forming.

        Shane: "Vicky, you appear even more foolish with this attempt to use an off source site, then using a limited short time frame in which group your subject. I am refering to your nizkor.org site."

        Silly me. To be so foolish as to provide a link to back up my assertion of your argument to ridicule. The common liberal on this site is well known for (almost) never backing up assertions with evidence or even supporting opinion.

        Shane: "But appreciated your attempt at smearing. Showed your hand again. Too easy."

        I have no need to attempt to smear liberals. They do fine without my help.

    • moonbeam

      Ya know DaveH, you said the truth and it is just the plain old truth. This political business of going along to get along just does not blow my hair back. Feels more like selling out to me. It’s the same old stuff, just a different day/face. When they go back on their word it grows bigger and bigger after that, only to find they’ve been woefully indoctrinated into what they originally stood against. The flip-flopping causes sea sickness.

      These are the things that We the People need to be paying attention to. It’s not what they say, it’s what they DO.

      • DaveH

        Thank you, Moonbeam.

      • Vicki

        well said moonbeam

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Dittos!

    • Shane

      Vicki says:

      August 5, 2012 at 4:54 am

      Shane writes:
      “Only fools attempt to rely on a few comments to make the judgement your attempting.”

      Fools and people who are really good at pattern recognition.

      Shane: “Knowledgeable and “fair” individual are aware of the danger of using small sampling in which to label others.”

      With ~40 posts in this thread alone and many/most of those (including the first one I ran across) being ad-hominem attacks or argument to ridicule, the danger is not as clear and present as you imply.

      That first post on Aug 3, 2012 at 11:40 am you started with “Flushy, while I’ll agree with some of your positions…..”

      1. His name is FLASHY (happy now eddie47d?) <— inside joke.

      2. He has the lowest credibility of any liberal on this board so your agreement with some of his positions is significant. NO it is not enough on its own as even I agree with flashy once and a while (REALLY REALLY long while ) but with ~39 other posts the pattern is forming.

      Shane: "Vicky, you appear even more foolish with this attempt to use an off source site, then using a limited short time frame in which group your subject. I am refering to your nizkor.org site."

      Silly me. To be so foolish as to provide a link to back up my assertion of your argument to ridicule. The common liberal on this site is well known for (almost) never backing up assertions with evidence or even supporting opinion.

      Shane: "But appreciated your attempt at smearing. Showed your hand again. Too easy."

      I have no need to attempt to smear liberals. They do fine without my help.

      ***************************************************************************************************

      I glad you can count Vicki. So how many post by Daveh, and others on just this one topic. As if it matters. How many article / subjects have I posted this year, compared to yourself?

      If high numbers be the scourge, then scourged you are. But I will cede the point. I myself wonder about why people would spend so much time away from their family and friends, and the good nature outdoors, to be spent at a blog comment site debating, no I mean baggering others in an attempt to conform.

      So Vicki, why do you and Daveh and others, spend so much time here. Good question by you, even if directed at the wrong writer.

      As for as Flashy, what does that have to do with me?

      As for a soucing. Gee this is the internet and google age. I could outsource your source, then come back and outsource my previous post. So learn how to write, and present your thoughts and I'll read it.

      As for as my smearing. Got me. Got me good. But you Vicky are a hypocrite. To hold some while allowing others a pass. Is just so unworthy.

      Pitful.

      • Jeff

        What? Romney is after Dave’s MONEY too?

  • http://www.facebook.com/kathy.foster.5623 Kathy Foster

    ON EVERY POLL BY FAR RUBIO IS THE FIRST RUNNER, WHY IS ALLEN WEST THE FIRST ON THIS ONE. YESTERDAY IT SHOWEED HIM AS19% TODAY AT 38% WHO ARE YOU FOR? WHO ARE YPU WORKING FOR! WE KNOW ALLEN WEST IS A GOOD GUY BUT NOT THE TOP RUNNER AND NOT FROM A SWING STATE. IS THIS JUST ANOTHER FARCE!OTHER POLL I HAVE VOTED ON RUBIO IS B

    • Michael J.

      Kathy,
      Rubio is ineligible, saying otherwise condones Obama’s ineligiblity and opens the door for anyone with a pulse, born anywhere on the planet to become the POTUS.

      • GRusling

        Rubio was born in Florida, but his parents weren’t yet citizens so that’s what makes him ineligible.

        Smart man and I like him a lot… just not eligible to be POTUS…

      • DaveH

        Forget his birth status. His politics are what turns me off:
        http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=51089

      • Biff

        You’re right, Rubio isn’t Natural Born, just like Obama. However, neither is Mitt Romney. Romeny’s Great Grandparents left the US and became Mexican citizens in order to own land and run businesses there. Mitt’s father, George, was born in Mexico to Mexican citizens and never naturalized here. So, even though Mitt was born in the US, his father was never a US citizen (in fact was a third generation Mexican) which makes Mitt ineligible.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Biff says: You’re right, Rubio isn’t Natural Born, just like Obama. However, neither is Mitt Romney. Romeny’s Great Grandparents left the US and became Mexican citizens in order to own land and run businesses there. Mitt’s father, George, was born in Mexico to Mexican citizens and never naturalized here. So, even though Mitt was born in the US, his father was never a US citizen (in fact was a third generation Mexican) which makes Mitt ineligible.

        Sorry Biff, you are mistaken.

        George Romney was born in a Mormon colony in Chihuahua, Mexico, to American citizen parents which bestowed American citizenship upon him (Jus sanguinis).

        Although a citizen, George Romney was never a “natural born” citizen.

        When George Romney’s parents fled the United States with their children because of the federal government’s opposition to polygamy they did not lose their American citizenship.

        Gaskell Romney, George Romney’s father, was born on September, 22 1871, in St. George, Washington, Utah. He’s an American citizen by birth.

        Anna Amelia Pratt Romney, George Romney’s mother, was born on May 6, 1876, in Salt Lake City, Salt Lake, Utah. She’s an American citizen by birth and marriage — remember this is pre-19th Amendment, when a woman’s citizenship was derived from her husband’s.

        Mitt Romney’s parents were both American citizens when Mitt was born in Detroit, Michigan on March 12, 1947.

        Mitt Romney was born in the USA (jus solis) of American citizen parents (Jus sanguinis) and is eligible to serve as POTUS.

      • Biff

        Jay says: “When George Romney’s parents fled the United States with their children because of the federal government’s opposition to polygamy they did not lose their American citizenship.”

        That’s true, they lost their US citizenship when they renounced it and became naturalized Mexican citizens. Which they had to do in order to buy property in Mexico. Only Mexican citizens can own property in Mexico, and they didn’t allow dual citizenship. When George was born, he was born in Mexico to two former US citizens who were then current Mexican citizens.

      • Michael J.

        DaveH,
        Tea Party candidate Marco Rubio has been turned to the dark side. Evidence of such are these:

        His weakness on illegal immigrants.(Cited Obama’s move to halt the deportation of illegals as “A welcome move”.)

        Supports military action against Iran.

        Supports arming Syrian Rebels/Al-Qaeda.

        Rubio attended the “Summit of the America’s/Bilderberg meeting”.

    • moonbeam

      Count Rubio out Kathy. He is absolutely ineligible. Anybody picking Rubio for VP will NOT get my vote. Enough of this non-natural born citizens, let alone known illegals running this country and ripping it apart.

  • Harold Olsen

    I was speaking to a guy who had recently flown and he said he set off the metal detector as he went through even though had no metal on him whatsoever. No keys, no belt buckle — nothing. He told me that he thinks the TSA perverts have a way of setting off the detector whenever they want so they have an excuse to search people. He said he also believes that with certain people who should be searched but because they’d be accused of profiling, the detector never activates. Could it be that the detectors always go off manually?

    • Flashy

      They can be auto or manual. TSA agents don’t need a detector going off to ask you to be searched.

      If they ask you to be searched, and you refuse, you won’t fly but you may leave the airport without further impediment. If the detector goes off…you are searched…and subject to be held until you allow to be searched. A detector going off gives probable cause to be held.

      • DaveH

        What a load.
        The Fourth Amendment:
        “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized”.

      • DaveH

        Judge Napolitano on the 4th Amendment:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8wEUhlXLG8

  • Michael J.

    I had a similar situation recently and while my hands were raised and the groping commenced, I turned my head and coughed. The resulting look of dismay on the TSA agents face testified to the fact that the symbolance of my gestures meaning went way over his head. Then, In an awkward nano second that seemed an eternity, I decided a cover story would provide relief quicker than describing to him the truth. So I told him, “Sorry, but that had to come out one end or the other”.

    On a more serious note, why does Sen. Paul not strive to have the TSA banned all together? Speaking as a business owner myself, if my business were being haunted by security threats, it would be my responsibility to provide a solution, not the government.

    Let’s cut to the chase, the TSA is not about providing security, but acclimation to a police state.

    • Charles

      Michael J, you have hit the nail on the head. No TSA is needed at all. The only things that are needed are to hold the airlines responsible for what the consequences of what they do, and let them run their own businesses without interference. Passenger inspection, who and how and how much? Barriers to cockpits? Pilots armed? Airline decisions, not govt. Can the govt do ANYTHING right?

      • DaveH

        Exactly. Let the Airlines decide how much security to offer their customers, and let the customers decide which Airline they feel safest on or whatever other criteria they seek.
        I would choose the airline that allowed licensed people to carry on board, rather than the ones that make us helpless sheep to be shorn, by whichever wacko(s) has managed to escape detection by security, like those poor helpless passengers on 9/11.

    • Wyatt

      I have to agree with you Michael J , the TSA is just a place where they can put all their perverts who enjoy harassing people and feeling them up . At the same time it gets the public accustomed to the police state mentality . Now that they are established in the airports , the liberal left wants them in the bus and train stations , whats next , road blocks and random searches along our highways ? Or maybe trailside stops and strip searches along the the hiking trails of America

      • DaveH

        Of course, because their real goal is subjugation of the people, and the sheeple just won’t get it until they have accomplished their goal.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Brownink09 Frank B.

      Absolutely TRUE!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

    I like Rand Paul, he is doing a good job…

    • Michael J.

      Greg,
      Rand Paul is a good man whose father was shown the Zabruder tape and told to stand down or else.

      • Robert Young

        Michael J. what is the Zabruder tape?

      • Michael J.

        Robert,
        It is a video tape made by a private citizen member of the Zapruder family, that managed to capture the assasination of JFK. Sorry about the typo.

  • Smithkowitz

    What are we going to do, turn it into a another failure like the USPS is turning into? What we should do is abolish it.

    • Flashy

      Smith…the USPS is a financial success turning a modest positive income. What is killing USPS is the unusual and unique debt payment structure Congress straddled it with. If that would be restructured or allowed to mirror the usual agency debt structure…USPS would not have issues.

      As it stands, its mission is to service everyone, no matter how small and how unprofitable to rural community may be. The TP members of Congress want to isolate these communities and return them to agrarian serf estates. They don’t want to help, they don’t want to build this Nation, all i can tell is the TP and its followers want to take this nation back 200 years and for them to be able to sate their greed and selfishness while this nation becomes a third world country and , eventually, dissolves.

      • DaveH

        For those who don’t know that Flashman has no credibility:
        http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-usps-should-be-privatized

      • DaveH
      • DaveH
        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          Congress can’t run a lemonade stand correctly!!!

      • boyscout

        Take a close look at Dave H’s second citation in which is included: “the Postal Service urged the government to do away with the requirement that such benefits be funded at their current rates”. They are forced to prepay benefits for future employes who have not been hired yet or even applied yet – a preposterous situation.

        • Jeff

          The Republican Congress has legislatively placed the USPS in a box so they can point to its financial difficulties and sell it all to Mitt Romney (or someone just like him) for a song. I just hope it costs DaveH more MONEY to buy stamps.

      • DaveH
        • Jeff

          I read plenty but usually avoid the right wing nonsense on the WSJ Editorial Page. What is the relevance of this particular article? That some rich people recognize that what’s good for the whole society may be more important than their own, immediate, selfish bottom line? Dave, you’re so blinded by your insistence on squeezing every last dollar that you can’t even consider what might be good for the society. Dave has health care, so there’s no need to tinker with the system. Dave and his precious MONEY are the center of the Universe. Typical of the Republican Mantra of the past 30+ years: I got mine; screw you.

          • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

            And the Democratic mantra is screw you, I’ll try to take as much of yours as i can & give it to all the victims out there, who are so inept & helpless they need me to run their lives & I’ll have them dependent on me for life & their votes for life & along the way, I’ll mismanage pretty much all of it, while stifling freedoms for all!!!

          • Jeff

            Why are you so angry? Yes, some people are inept and helpless and yes, some people will take advantage of that (i.e. vulture capitalists). But, what should happen to the people whose jobs are shipped overseas or destroyed by Gordon Gekko? Should they just die? Is there no social contract providing some minimal level of existence for them? What about the disabled? What if people lose their healthcare and then get sick?

            Social policymakers don’t need to worry about the Mitt Romneys of the world. They’ll always do fine. Plus, they have lobbyists to write the tax laws specially for them. What about the poor or the middle class (who may be a couple of paychecks from poverty)? If you want a society with a few rich people, lots of poor people, and a tiny middle class, take a look at Mexico. If current trends continue, that’s the direction we’re headed.

          • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

            Of course, there needs to be a social safety net, but not for about 40% of the population…Donald Trump said, he has no problem paying higher taxes, if it went towards reducing the deficit, not to fund more entitlements that put us in more of a hole! William L. Buckley predicted all this in the 1970′s…that the Federal govt. will grow so large that it will be unmanageable & waste trillions of dollars & that is what has happened, both sides are to blame, but there is more of a chance to get it rectified with the Repubs…THERE IS NO CHANCE WITH THE DEMS!! Power has got to flow back to the states, it is the only way out.

      • DaveH

        “Angry” — the latest Progressive buzzword.
        If he is angry, Jeff, why shouldn’t he be? It’s much easier for the guy helping himself to somebody else’s money and choices to be happy, isn’t it?
        Those jobs you speak of, Jeff, are being destroyed by ignorant people like yourself who think that taking money from the productive private sector and consuming it in the wasteful public sector is going to somehow increase our economy when it has never worked before in history.
        Those who doubt that can read this report and get a clue:
        http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

        You know, it would be one thing if the Progressives had logic on their side, or experience on their side, but they have Neither!

        • Jeff

          Dave, I want your MONEY. I want it all now and I’m coming to get it.

          I said he was angry because of the way the post was written. I believe analysis is superior to vitriol.

          • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

            There was no vitriol, but simple truth….you want vitriol, look at the Libs crucify Conservative women & blacks & anyone who stands up for traditional marriage!

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          I’m not angry, it’s called Righteous Indignation !!!

      • DaveH

        Jeff says — “If you want a society with a few rich people, lots of poor people, and a tiny middle class, take a look at Mexico”.
        Yes, let’s look at Mexico:
        http://heritage.org/index/country/mexico

        Mexico’s Economic Freedom score — 65.3
        United States Economic Freedom score — 76.3 (but falling fast)

        So Yes, if current trends continue (Government keeps growing) we will catch up (or down) with Mexico. Look at the bright side. The illegals won’t want to come here anymore.

        • Jeff

          Dave, the Mexicans want your MONEY too.

          In Mexico, there is little spending on people and not much of a social safety net. So, it is illogical to think it is government spending that will make us like Mexico. More likely, it is unrestrained and unregulated capitalism that will do it. No protections for workers or for the environment. A few will get very rich and you’ll see it as natural. In fact, how we structure the society is very much a political determination. Trade policies, the ability of workers to unionize, tax policies, etc. These are all political determinations.

          • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

            We can learn from the Mexicans, too….anyone caught coming into their country illegally from Central America is given a swift boot in the butt & sent right back…..no benefits, no jobs off the books, no strain on their society!!!!

          • Jeff

            Is that the meaning of American Exceptionalism – adopt the most odious practices of third world countries?

          • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

            Surely, you jest!!!! ODIOUS ???? What part of illegal, do you not understand? A sovereign nation securing their borders, is something to be admired, not chastised!!

      • DaveH

        The people who bother to read the links, Jeff, will know just how wrong you are.
        You should try some reading. It might help with your condition.
        There is nothing “logical” about anything you said, Jeff. We are far away from “unregulated Capitalism” and have been for over 100 years. Instead, thanks to people like you, we have Markets that are heavily regulated, getting more so every day, and those regulations strangle the Market Entrepreneurs while helping the Crony Capitalists.
        For those of you who unknowingly might swallow Jeff’s “unregulated Capitalism” Propaganda:
        http://www.scribd.com/doc/53100815/Wayne-Crews-10-000-Commandments-2011

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          Balance is the key, we have gone too far with regulations…..& no system will ever work righteously without integrity, morality & ethics within those involved, no matter how grat it sounds on paper!

        • Jeff

          But we’re moving in that direction. Listen to the nonsense from the right – all regulations are unnecessary; the banks are over-regulated; get rid of the EPA; privatize social security; turn medicare into a voucher program. This program, if enacted, will drag us in the direction of Mexico.

          BTW: It’s all true. Democrats don’t really care about the environment; they just want Dave’s MONEY.

          • http://www.facebook.com/patti.patterson.52 Patti Patterson

            Nonsense from the right? That alone lets us know that you are not willing to listen and mayhap learn. Yes, the EPA needs to go. Regulations demanding that gasoline refineries add a specified product, THAT DOES NOT EXIST or pay daily fines is the height of really stupid. Privatize Social Security, absolutely. I’d much rather choose how my money is invested, rather than let the federal government.

          • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

            PP is right, Jeff…the govt. can’t be trusted to run a hot dog stand!!! You do not have the consciousness of Freedom in your soul at this point, you want of let Big Daddy/Nanny take care of things….Freedom is a quality of God, not government….and those in power need to be walking with God…

            True meaning of GOVERNMENT= “GOD OVER MEN”

  • Steven Grumman

    Neither Rand Paul nor Congress should attempt to devolve a key government responsibility to private hands. Security is the responsibility of the state and must remain in the state’s hands. Privatization of security services can lead to numerous issues including inadequate service, favoritism, and corruption.
    Rather than seeking privatization, Paul should be seeking to bolster and further professionalize the TSA. This would best serve the needs of interests of the people and avoid profiting the few.

    • Charles

      Since you believe that solution by govt works, why are you here? Security is not the responsibility of govt. You do not trust a free market, yet you trust tyranny.

      I wonder what other things you believe in? Indefinite detention by “wise” govt protecting security? Warrantless no knock SWAT raids? It’s “security”! What about assassination, or execution of the accused without due process? “Security” demands it!

      • DaveH

        For those who think that what Charles describes are isolated instances:
        http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Excellent post, Charles! You hit the nail.

    • rotor700

      Wow! you sound like a government plant. THe TSA should be abolished, and if you are worried about corruption, you are in deep doo doo for sure. What do you call it when a man who is not elligible for the presidency of the United States is allowed to get elected. I would call that the largest scam ever on the American people, brought about by the most corrupt government on the Planet.

    • TML

      Steven Grumman, “Security is the responsibility of the state and must remain in the state’s hands. Privatization of security services can lead to numerous issues including inadequate service, favoritism, and corruption.”

      Not only is the security of privately owned businesses, such as airlines, not the responsibility of the State, but TSA is a federal agency not a state agency.

      Privatization of security services would lead to numerous improvements, including more adequate services, less favoritism, and less corruption than what the incompetency of government can provide… not to mention, more liable for violations of the 4th Amendment.

    • DaveH

      It was Government Insecurity that led to 9/11. Why would anybody think more Government is the solution? Who protects us from them?
      I’ll take my chances over the bad guys, who I can at least defend myself against, over the “good Government guys”, who I don’t dare defend myself against lest they send their army of drones to take me out, any day of the week.
      Those who give up Freedom for Security will get NEITHER.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      Those who trade liberty for Security have neither. ~John Adams.
      Steven…people like you make me want to puke. Gag me with a place setting.

    • Robert Young

      Steve, I disagree. I believe that the TSA is beyond redemption and should be abolished completely. In our free enterprise system, a business should be able to provide the security they choose. If you don’t like their security, don’t do business with that firm.

    • http://google gary gerke

      Your retort says it all……you are a communist that believes the state is the savior of the people instead of the suppressor of the people. You are blind and ignorant for what America stands for!

  • dan

    I thought Rubio was ineligible (and yes , I like him)

    TSA is trying to unionize… doing to ALL transportation what big gov has done to Am-Trak

    • Flashy

      Rubio is eligible for the office. Anyone who tells you different isn’t dealing with a full deck.

      • http://www.facebook.com/patti.patterson.52 Patti Patterson

        Wrong yet again. Rubio is eligible for neither President OR Vice President. His parents were not citizens when he was born. Therefore, he is NOT a natural born citizen.

      • Opal the Gem

        Ya’ll make a note of Flushy’s statement. If Rubio becomes the VP candidate and/or becomes VP ol Flushy will be one of the first in line to say he isn’t eligible to serve.

      • Flashy

        Opal…I’ve never said that Rubio is ineligible. Quite the contrary. Many many times I’ve stated he is. As is Bobby Jindal.

        Is there any doubt today’s SCOTUS, as Conservative as it is, would define the Constitution as saying otherwise? And should there be an opening the next four years, the re-elected Pres. Obama will most likely appoint someone unlikely to define it otherwise. And the bottom line is, the SCOTUS defines the Constitution.

        That you and a few others twist the Constitution and stand it on its head to state some wacked out stance which you support doesn’t mean it is reality.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Is there any doubt today’s SCOTUS, as Conservative as it is, would define the Constitution as saying otherwise?”.
        Conservative? That’s a laugh riot. Conservative Justices would not have allowed the Federal Government to Force us to buy a product (health insurance) which is just a wager against the odds that we’ll suffer misfortune. The only way we can win is to lose (your health), and the added middlemen not only interfere with your doctor/patient relationship, but they cost the overall economy much more money that would have been better spent on medical care.
        No doubt as health care costs grow rapidly due to the Government meddling, they will then offer themselves as the solution to the problem which they created.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Flashy says: Rubio is eligible for the office. Anyone who tells you different isn’t dealing with a full deck.

        Marco Rubio was born in Miami, Fla., on May 28, 1971, to Mario and Oriales Rubio who were born in Cuba. Therefore, not only is Rubio not, a “natural born” citizen, as well; he is not eligible for the vice-presidency!

        • Jeff

          You can discuss this nonsense with JeffH if he ever returns. I think he’s out defacing synagogues.

      • JeffH

        Nonsense Jeff? What you just said and what Falsy said is pure nonsense.
        Hardley nonsense at all. You know it, Falsy knows it and Rubio knows it.

        Again I’ll say again what I’ve schooled you on before…educate yourself.

        Both parents must be citizens at the time of birth of the child in the USA for the child to be a “natural born citizen” per our Constitution’s framers intent and the “natural law”, as codified by Vattel in 1758 in his legal reference treatise, “The Law of Nations or Principles of Natural Law”. The “divided loyalties” concerns of the framers of a person who is selected to serve as our President and Commander-in-Chief of our military comes into play. Thus the framers required a “natural born” citizen only mandate in the U.S. Constitution for the Office of President and Commander-in-Chief of our military.

        MINOR V. HAPPERSETT IS BINDING PRECEDENT AS TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL DEFINITION OF A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
        http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/06/24/minor-v-happersett-is-binding-precedent-as-to-the-constitutional-definition-of-a-natural-born-citizen/
        The independent ground the Court used to determine that Virginia Minor was a US citizen is stated as follows:

        “Additions might always be made to the citizenship of the United States in two ways: first, by birth, and second, by naturalization. This is apparent from the Constitution itself, for it provides that ‘No person except a natural-born citizen or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution shall be eligible to the office of President,’ …

        “The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens. “

        Read that passage very carefully, and you will see that the US Supreme Court clearly defined “natural-born citizen” by two independent remarks:

        1. “…all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also.” First, the Court states that these persons are “citizens”. But then it makes a second statement about this class -

        2. “These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.” This class of citizens are part of a class defined as “natural-born citizens”. They are citizens, natural-born. This distinguishes them from all other citizens. If this were not the case, it would have been sufficient for the Court to stop at the first statement concerning their citizenship.

        But the Court didn’t stop there. Because the Court was avoiding the 14th Amendment, the Court went to the second step and defined this class to be different from all other citizens. This class did not require the 14th Amendment to be US citizens.

  • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

    Rand & Ron Paul are not perfect, but they are about as good as it gets!!!! When Rand says it will be easier to work with Romney, you have to believe it. The lesser of 2 evils, is still less evil!!

    • DaveH

      How do you ever expect to force the Republicans to offer Freedom-Loving candidates if you keep rubber-stamping their Non-Freedom Lovers?

      • Shane

        According to your own standards. How can a perfect father begat a less than perfect son, Rand Paul? So to your high and perfect standards, Ron Paul cannot be the one to turn to. So who is your canidate?

        I do expect an answer.

        Remember, it can’t be Ron Paul, just using your previously set standards.

        So who is your canidate?

        Will wait.

      • DaveH

        You blew any chances of rational discussion many comments ago, Shane.

      • Shane

        I just confirmed your cowardice, DaveH. You’d get in a pissing contest with billy goat if you thought you’d get the upper hand. You refuse to answer a simple question, that your persona on this sites begs an explantion. By your own hand, you limb wristed your reply.

        Shameful.

        But I’ll give you another chance at redemption.

        So who do you want at this time to be our president?

      • DaveH

        Sorry Shane, but the Billy Goat would be easier to reason with.

    • kellys

      It is still evil. Its getting harder and harder to find the less part of that equation.

  • http://peresonallibertydigest.. gottaplenty

    Critisize Rand Peul for what? and which one of those baboons would replace him with?

    • Shane

      Apparently you have not gotten the divine message from God. He’s drop the Jesus of Nazareth label. His most holy name that is now to be used is DaveH. DaveH being omniscient and most perfect, has judged Rand Paul to be an apostate heretic. His followers are just waiting on DaveH to order up a truck load of pitchforks, and then his divine orders.

      • DaveH

        You’re pathetic, Shane. Recess is over, get back to your class.

      • Shane

        DaveH. I “gotcha.” Enjoyed your personal criticism of me, but with not nary an example. So chalk up the first round to me.

        I gave you examples of my opinions DaveH. Where do you disagree?

        DaveH, you remind my of the barflies when I was younger. Always there, but with very little to offer that one would want to be associated with. Does your family know what you do all day?

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        I’ve been reading your posts, Shane and have to say…most folks get smarter as they get older. But you seem to be regressing and resorting to kindergarten antics. Have you considered shooting your miserable self?

      • DaveH

        I enjoy that people like you post comments, Shane.
        You are a perfect example of why Big Government doesn’t work.
        I can lecture people all day long about the fact that Government is just people and they are no more worthy of trust than any other human is, so why would we want to give them the Power of Force over our lives? But it hits home a lot more dramatically when people like you expose yourselves.
        So please, keep on posting.

      • Shane

        Mark are Reynolds. Wow, that was an enlighting comment. So full of promise and love.

        Just what exactly do you disagree on my comments? The style. You pissy little hyprocrite. You don’t see me much here. But you see Dave and some of the others, and therir repeated like a broken record, little diatribes of nothingness.

        Mark are Reynolds. Why are you here. I’ve presented some opinions, along with some playful interaction with a few barflies. Just what are your opinions on the TSA, Rand Paul, Ron Paul, etc. Other than critizing poor little me. ;-(

      • Shane

        DaveH, just where did I propose giving more, or even the same government control over my life?

        You really need to read with eyes open, and mind engaged.

        But prove me wrong.

        Where are those comments?

        I’ll be lurking for you. :-)

      • Shane

        Mark are Reynolds. Please provide one comment that you disagree with. Just one.

        Not the playful interactions between me and my messiah, DaveH and some of the others.

        I’ve written today a number of comments about issues.

        Pick your favorite, and throw it back at me.

        If no reply, to substance, not about my dear mother and her muddy army boots, or my tit-tat of fun comments with little MarkH. I’ll take it that you’re just a mindless weakling.

      • Shane

        DavdH, maybe try a dialogue and not so much lecturing. You may get along better with others.

      • DaveH

        Are you really that ignorant, Shane?
        Anybody can see from your aggressive and vicious personal attacks that you’re a control freak. And control freaks look for Big Government to implement their controls.

      • Shane

        DaveH, just what pseudo psychology magazine did you pick up that reasoning?

        DaveH, you accuse me of being aggressive. Fine. You have label unfounded and false charges against others since my first introduction to this site, along with being one of the more aggressive commenters.

        I don’t like your attitude and find you arrogant. But most of all, inconsistent with your stated beliefs and from that which you write. But it’s a free country for the time being. So have at it.

        But you’re such a coward, crybaby and hypocrite.

        You’ve had your chances to engage in real conversation, but chose not to. That’s fine. But don’t expect me to roll over to your one-way insults.

      • DaveH

        You insult me repeatedly, and then talk about my one-way insults?
        Are you insulting the intelligence of the readers of PL?
        Seek Help, Shane.

      • DaveH

        Shane says — “I’ll be lurking for you”.
        And that should threaten me, how? If you had the mental capacity for reasonable debate, Shane, you wouldn’t need to rely almost solely on ad hominem attacks.
        Lurk all you want.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Shane says: “I’ll be lurking for you”.

        Hmm, that sounds rather disturbing, Shane/Flashy. Are you here to debate and exchange ideas, or are you here working out your demons?

        • Jeff

          Did Ayn Rand Paul take some of Dave’s MONEY in a poker game or what?

      • Shane

        DaveH says:

        August 3, 2012 at 4:38 pm

        You insult me repeatedly, and then talk about my one-way insults?
        Are you insulting the intelligence of the readers of PL?
        Seek Help, Shane.

        ****************************************************************************

        DaveH, you don’t attack? Really? That’s the statement you’re going with?

        I’ve asked repeatedly a simple question of substance. You attack me, call me names. Then run to your mama. I remember little kids like you when I was a mere lad. Can dish it out, especially with a few like minded friends. But refuse to toe the line, head to head, when challenged.

        LOL, DaveH does not attack.

        Answer the question, DaveH.

        Who merits your full support for president.

        Gee that’s really hard.

      • Shane

        DaveH says:

        August 3, 2012 at 5:52 pm

        Shane says — “I’ll be lurking for you”.
        And that should threaten me, how? If you had the mental capacity for reasonable debate, Shane, you wouldn’t need to rely almost solely on ad hominem attacks.
        Lurk all you want.

        *******************************************************************************************************

        Gee DaveH, your so easy to beat. What a little baby, trying to make an issue of my attempt at humor. I guess it did fall a little flat, so I’ll give you that.

        But in my area, that term is well know. Also accepted by adults, children, parents and people of fine breeding. But it’s a regional thing. So I accept that you won’t be seeing me on Jay Leno.

        But the bigger issue, is your “major” issue with the statement.

        You are a trip DaveH.

    • DaveH

      Rand Paul is indeed heads and heels over most of the others, but there is always room for improvement.
      Remember, gottaplenty, that “compromise” is what got us to our current condition. You can’t compromise Freedom.

      • Shane

        But he can’t raise a son up correctly. So as you have stated DaveH, why trust our country to someone less than perfect.

        Why don’t you run DaveH. You’re perfect. You have nothing else going on in your life, except commenting here. Most holy one.

      • DaveH
      • JeffH

        DaveH, you’ve officially made the “progressive” hit list along with Mr. Livingston and PLD.

        Now isn’t it ironc that several of those going after you spew that same rhetoric, sound the same from one day to the next yet have different names…hmmm, just sayin’ we’ve seen it before.

      • DaveH

        That works for me, JeffH. If it is just one character with multiple personalities, his plan is backfiring because he’s making it look like all the Progressives are rabid personal attackers who bring no reason or true facts to the board.
        On the other hand having read some of the comments on Yahoo and other places, I can easily believe that is their normal behavior.

      • Average Joe

        JeffH ,
        I like to refer to it as, “The Troll Patrol”…consisting of one person with multiple personality disorder.

        After a few months of arguing with “supposedly” superior minds, I have decided that it isn’t worth my time or engery to respond to them any further.
        Trolls, like bears, will continue to hang around if we continue to feed them. Stop feeding the trolls…and eventually the seek attention elsewhere.

        PS,
        I thought you guys and gals on the site might get a kick out of this…finally, someone is fighting back…lol….. Enjoy!

        http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/03/13103499-vermont-man-uses-tractor-to-flatten-8-police-cars?lite

        How can I donate to his legal defense fund?

        Best Wishes,
        AJ

      • JeffH

        Average Joe, that’s the truth. :)
        Several years ago I used to use that same term for posters like eyeswideopen, denisso, eddie, smilee, etc. The names may change but the trolls don’t.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        AJ and JeffH, personally i think that the “troll patrol” may be responsible, to a certain extent, for the steady success of PLD. As you may have heard, PLD is number 9 in position for the most accessed social-media site. However, the poor lemmings have absolutely no idea that their desire to undermine the success of PLD, they, by their considerable presence in numbers, are actually contributing to its success. I say, feed them!

        • Jeff

          I can’t wait for “Ayn” Rand Paul to run for President. He’d have a good chance at the nomination as long as he avoids saying things like his father does about American Imperialism. Then, we’ll see a replay of the Goldwater Campaign and a complete restructuring of political allegiances. The Republicans are on the verge of extinction given the country’s changing demographics, but I’m sure the Democrats will find a way to keep them alive until they can convince at least 40% of Hispanic voters that they were the ones who favored immigration reform, the Dream Act, etc. Having Ayn Rand at the head of the ticket will just accelerate the process.

    • Shane

      DaveH says:

      August 3, 2012 at 5:52 pm

      Shane says — “I’ll be lurking for you”.
      And that should threaten me, how? If you had the mental capacity for reasonable debate, Shane, you wouldn’t need to rely almost solely on ad hominem attacks.
      Lurk all you want.

      ************************************************************************************************

      Oh! left out a reply to one of your comments here. You stated “if you had the mental capacity for reasonable debate?”

      I been trying to get you to responsed to a few issues, that you refuse, totally to answer.

      Number one on the list, is whom do you fully support to be president of the United States. You are so critical of everyone, but refuse to present your choice.

      Yet you state “if you had the mental capacity for reasonable debate” directed to me.

      Gee, it’s worst that I thought for you ole fellow.

    • Shane

      Jay says:

      August 3, 2012 at 6:21 pm

      Shane says: “I’ll be lurking for you”.

      Hmm, that sounds rather disturbing, Shane/Flashy. Are you here to debate and exchange ideas, or are you here working out your demons?

      *************************************************************************************************

      Jay, do you understand the word “debate?” If you do, you may need to put DaveH’s water down, and get him to participate.

      Gee, I admit my joke fell flat. “I’ll be lurking for you.) Regional thing and all that. Nothing sexual, and actually quite funny. But like my attempts to have a conversation or as you say Jay, a debate. Many here, don’t understand the term, or lack the mental capacity to jab back and forth, or are cowards.

      Not sure where you fit on the three possibilities, but DaveH is likely a coward.

      If you’re listening DaveH. Who do you support for President of this here United States of America?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Shane says: Jay, do you understand the word “debate?” If you do, you may need to put DaveH’s water down, and get him to participate.

        DaveH is, participating, Shane. Furthermore, minus the personal attacks and ad hominems’. If you disagree, simply say so, and state your reasons why.

        Shane say: Gee, I admit my joke fell flat. “I’ll be lurking for you.) Regional thing and all that. Nothing sexual, and actually quite funny. But like my attempts to have a conversation or as you say Jay, a debate. Many here, don’t understand the term, or lack the mental capacity to jab back and forth, or are cowards.

        Cowards? Not sure what you mean by that. I think most here are quite adapt at jousting.

        Shane says: Not sure where you fit on the three possibilities, but DaveH is likely a coward.

        Hardly!

        Shane says: If you’re listening DaveH. Who do you support for President of this here United States of America?

        Presently, none. However, i would support one who abides by the Constitution. Do you know of any?

      • Shane

        Jay says:

        August 6, 2012 at 6:55 am

        Shane says: Jay, do you understand the word “debate?” If you do, you may need to put DaveH’s water down, and get him to participate.

        DaveH is, participating, Shane. Furthermore, minus the personal attacks and ad hominems’. If you disagree, simply say so, and state your reasons why.

        Shane say: Gee, I admit my joke fell flat. “I’ll be lurking for you.) Regional thing and all that. Nothing sexual, and actually quite funny. But like my attempts to have a conversation or as you say Jay, a debate. Many here, don’t understand the term, or lack the mental capacity to jab back and forth, or are cowards.

        Cowards? Not sure what you mean by that. I think most here are quite adapt at jousting.

        Shane says: Not sure where you fit on the three possibilities, but DaveH is likely a coward.

        Hardly!

        Shane says: If you’re listening DaveH. Who do you support for President of this here United States of America?

        Presently, none. However, i would support one who abides by the Constitution. Do you know of any?

        ***************************************************************************************************
        So Jay answers DaveH mail? I would suppose that DaveH could do so himself.

        But in answer to your post Jay, that presently there is no one here in this country that you Jay would support and as you are speaking for DaveH, that he would support.

        Then why participate in debate? But to state that there is no one in this country that either could get behind! It seems that the both of you have way too high opinion of yourselves.

        One last important point. Why did it take all these attempts to answer such an easy question? Very interesting!!

  • Jenasus

    TSA stands for Terrorists Stripping Americans. Our own government was involved with 9/11 to strip Americans of our rights of privacy.

    • nc

      Jenasus, next to breathing, the easiest thing for conservatives to do is cook up an evil conspiracy theory against their enemies! You are a true koolade kommando!

      • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

        And what are you? I’d say you need to do a bit of homework to help you with your cognitive dissonance. Like http://AE911truth.org

      • DaveH

        NC is trying to replace Eddie as the board troll.

      • MAP

        I know what you’re saying, NC. I keep hearing about all these rich man conspiracies and those dirty Southern conspiracies. Oh wait, those are from the NC-types. Now I’m confused.

      • Michael J.

        nc= not conscious,
        Your conservaphobia can be cured by a qualified physician. The end to cultural paranoia awaits you, if you choose it.

      • JeffH

        Trying? More like walking hand in hand.

      • Shane

        Mark are Reynolds. “Cognitive dissonance,” you can’t use that term for a while. You’ll have to let some water pass under the bridge before pulling that word up again.

        I remember my first year in college, learning that term. Would use it all the time. Mainly in a self-elevated measure, with my non-college friends. I eventually grew up, and put that word away to be used only a few rare discussions.

        LOL, it was funny. I mean your use of the term as used.

      • DaveH

        Does this sound like an intelligent college graduate to anybody?
        “Apparently you have not gotten the divine message from God. He’s drop the Jesus of Nazareth label. His most holy name that is now to be used is DaveH. DaveH being omniscient and most perfect, has judged Rand Paul to be an apostate heretic. His followers are just waiting on DaveH to order up a truck load of pitchforks, and then his divine orders”.
        What was that tirade in response to? I said this:
        “Rand Paul lost my respect when he endorsed Romney”.

      • Shane

        DaveH says:

        August 3, 2012 at 1:53 pm

        Does this sound like an intelligent college graduate to anybody?
        “Apparently you have not gotten the divine message from God. He’s drop the Jesus of Nazareth label. His most holy name that is now to be used is DaveH. DaveH being omniscient and most perfect, has judged Rand Paul to be an apostate heretic. His followers are just waiting on DaveH to order up a truck load of pitchforks, and then his divine orders”.
        What was that tirade in response to? I said this:
        “Rand Paul lost my respect when he endorsed Romney”.

        *********************************************************************************************

        Cute DaveH. I remember that game in grade school. Repeat what the other says until the game and showmanship got old.

        You still lose. No reply to my question and where you disagree.

      • DaveH

        Your thoughts are irrelevant to me, Shane. You have proved yourself to be unworthy of reasoned debate.

      • phideaux

        “Does this sound like an intelligent college graduate to anybody?”

        DaveH, shane never said he graduated he only said he attended.

      • Shane

        phideaux says:

        August 4, 2012 at 12:45 am

        “Does this sound like an intelligent college graduate to anybody?”

        DaveH, shane never said he graduated he only said he attended.

        ********************************************************************************

        Picking at straws Phideaux? Yes a BS at one of the major colleges in the land. According to multiple yearly surveys.

        But gee, your getting desperate phideaux.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        nc says: Jenasus, next to breathing, the easiest thing for conservatives to do is cook up an evil conspiracy theory against their enemies! You are a true koolade kommando!

        Who are their enemies, nc?

      • phideaux

        So Shane you have BS, we all know what that stands for and being from a “major” university only means it stinks more.

        • Jeff

          Fido:

          Tell us all about your experiences at Obedience School – especially that tryst with the cute French poodle.

    • Jeff

      Are you telling me that George W. Idiot was part of a successful terrorist plot. Bill Maher said he can prove Bush had nothing to do with 9-11 in two words: “It worked.”

  • carl

    God Bless Ran Paul and my other Kentucky conservatives. Makes me proud to be from Kentucky!

    • Jeff

      Just don’t go near the coal mines because Ayn Rand doesn’t believe in safety regulations. Saving lives is of less importance than his holy principles of unfettered free enterprise. To him, it’s OK if miners die (They should have done their own due diligence on the employer.) and it’s perfectly OK for private business (supported, of course, by Government in the form of Police, Fire, Roads and Courts) to discriminate against people on the basis of Race or anything else.

  • rotor700

    I think a new bill was passed, or is now about to be passed, that gives the TSA authority over other forms of transportation, such as buses, subways,trains and the like? It will eventually mean traffic stops when you cross state borders. We seriously need to replace this government as it is not following our constitution and is hell bent on total control of us in our daily lives. If obama gets re-elected, we are finished, and I do think he will get re-elected. I keep hoping for a fatal accident, or assassin to come along, and eliminate him.

    • Shane

      You are an idiot.

      • FreedomFighter

        Another brilliant comment by another liberal.—Shane in shame.

        “If obama gets re-elected, we are finished, and I do think he will get re-elected.”

        agree, but really all he needs do is start a shooting war, declare Martial Law, suspend elections.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Shane

        FreedomFighter, so you are advocating the assassination of our sitting president. So you wish to attach “Shame” to my name. What shall we attached to yours?

      • Ted Crawford

        Shane
        You might want to rethink that statement ! Google TSA VIPER Teams. they have been around since 2005 !

      • Shane

        Ted Crawford, I suggest you re-read my comment. I did not reply to the TSA issue. Which should be disbanded and private companies used and their work force to be under tight control.

        Does the word ASSASSINATION OF OUR SITTING PRESIDENT cause you any concern?

        My statement was clearly directed to that statement by rotor700.

        I have a question for you Ted Crawford. Do you support the assassination of our president?

        I do not.

        Waiting on your reply Ted.

      • FreedomFighter

        Dont think anyone here will “support” such a thing, but I sure would not shed a single tear at the wake.

        So go fishing somewhere else Shame, your just another commi toad.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        I love it. Got in bed with the wrong guy, didn’t you Ted? Maybe in the future you will be more careful who you ally yourself with in your fervor to put me down.

      • Shane

        LOL. So now I’m a commie. That would come as some surprise to my family, friends, associates and casual acquaintances.

        I guess if one does not advocate the assassination of our sitting president. Feels that Rand Paul is a decent and honorable person. Realizes that there is only one perfect person. It’s not DaveH.

        Plus that there is often times, major differences among two canidates. Even if neither is perfect. It is often times better to vote for the more honorable, than to allow the dishonorable to back into office due to one’s own personal self-righteous opinion.

        Gee, I guess that makes me something other than Daveh, rotor700, and some of the others on this site.

        But commie!! Wow, that’s some stretch.

        LOL

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        Hey, don’t worry about Shane. After typing “those words” the gubmint will be picking him up shortly. You ain’t allowed to use “those words”. Man, you are on the list now!

      • Ted Crawford

        Shane
        You are correct! For some reason I failed to see the worn Assassin ! No! I do not Condone the Assassination of any President or Public Figure.
        Daveh you give yourself far, far too much value! My intent is not to put any reasonable person down, as you state, but rather I hope to cause them to re-evaluate, not their goal, it’s a laudable one, but their path towards that goal !
        History and even the Bible( NO I’m not a Christian, but I have read the Bible and find it to be the best philosophy book ever written, and not too shabby as an Historical record), proves that Prefection is unachievable, yet it’s wise to continue to pursue it. If we are even to begin to approch it, we will have to accept progress. Progress is frustratingly slow at times, but just occasionally we can make giant steps. Knee-jerk reactions are always, however destructive to any cause! ” The medicine is worse than the disease” !

      • Michael J.

        Shane,
        The test is very simple and consist of a multiple choice of answers:
        Do we live in a Democracy or a Republic?

      • phideaux

        “You are an idiot.”

        Your original reply to rotor700′s post. You make no distinction as to what part of his post you are refering to so the logical conclusion is you are replying to the WHOLE post including the part about TSA. Now you claim you were only responding to the line about the death of obama that makes YOU the idiot Shane.

      • Shane

        Ted Crawford, it takes a man to admit when one misunderstood and was incorrect about an issue, or another person. I appreciate your integrity and man’s man ability to admit when wrong. I’ve done the same here with Mr. Bob Livingston. A full mea culpa to Bob, and in full view of all the readers at this site. A bitter soup, but one that allows recovery.

        Ted, I don’t have all the answers. I think I do. Then all of a sudden, someone presents a reasonable argument with some facts that make me reevaluate and possibly modifly my present position on a subject(s). So as not to be misconstrued by some of the dimmer bulbs on this site. I do not wish to give the impression that I’m merely a flag waving in the wind, changing directions on any little whim. But neither am I a mindless simpleton.

        But regardless of the graymatter one has. It mostly gets down to morality and the decency of the individual.

      • Shane

        Michael J., is this a trick question. It appears to be so simple, yet a device that you are using to attempt to trip me up.

        Gee…… Tick-tock….tick-tock…tick-tock..tick-tock.tick-tock. Time’s up. Gee I hope I don’t get this wrong. Pie in my face.

        Would it be? Could it be? Possibly?

        “REPUBLIC”

        But the real question should be, are we really being run as a true Republic and not a democracy of the mis-informed, less motivated, less talented, and easily bought off mis-fits of society?

        Michael J, next time get to the next chapter on your questioning. Maybe governmental history in the 200 range.

      • Shane

        DaveH says:

        August 3, 2012 at 9:03 am

        I love it. Got in bed with the wrong guy, didn’t you Ted?

        **************************************************************************

        What it is with you DaveH. Earlier today you accused Ted of coming out of the closet. Now you have him supposely in bed with a fellow.

        I believe you complain too much DaveH, as they say. Seems to be some association going on between guys, beds and closets and DaveH.

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          DaveH is ‘DA BOMB!!!! Now, let’s see him sneak it past TSA!!!!

      • Michael J.

        Shane,
        Republic is the correct answer allthough I sense condescension in your reply. We here at PLD are well attuned at identifing schills who refer to our form of government as a Democracy as a sort of Freudian slip. Regardless of your response, we know exactly what and who you are. We also realize that you shape-shifting Obamadrone schills will continue to morph into new entities in observance of your sybil liberties, but talking points remain the same as provided by Dailykos, Media Matters, etc., etc.

        While we abhor the stomach churning bilge you present/represent, it does keep us enlightened as to the clear and present danger foistered upon us by “The Great Destroyer” and his “Axis of Idiots”

      • Vicki

        Shane says:
        on August 3, 2012 at 8:48 am

        “My statement was clearly directed to that statement by rotor700.”

        Shane’s statement was in its entirety on August 3, 2012 at 8:01 am
        “You are an idiot.”

        The statement by Shane was in fact clearly directed to this statement by rotor700 on August 3, 2012 at 7:53 am
        “I think a new bill was passed, or is now about to be passed, that gives the TSA authority over other forms of transportation, such as buses, subways,trains and the like? It will eventually mean traffic stops when you cross state borders. We seriously need to replace this government as it is not following our constitution and is hell bent on total control of us in our daily lives. If obama gets re-elected, we are finished, and I do think he will get re-elected. I keep hoping for a fatal accident, or assassin to come along, and eliminate him.”

        Shane, when challenged, claims (possibly correctly) that he was referring to just one little tiny part of rotor700′s rather much longer statement.

        If Shane is correct (only he knows) that he was referring to just one little tiny piece of rotor700′s statement then he is incorrect that his statement “You are an idiot” was clearly directed.

      • Shane

        Vicki says:

        August 4, 2012 at 3:10 pm

        Shane says:
        on August 3, 2012 at 8:48 am

        “My statement was clearly directed to that statement by rotor700.”

        Shane’s statement was in its entirety on August 3, 2012 at 8:01 am
        “You are an idiot.”

        The statement by Shane was in fact clearly directed to this statement by rotor700 on August 3, 2012 at 7:53 am
        “I think a new bill was passed, or is now about to be passed, that gives the TSA authority over other forms of transportation, such as buses, subways,trains and the like? It will eventually mean traffic stops when you cross state borders. We seriously need to replace this government as it is not following our constitution and is hell bent on total control of us in our daily lives. If obama gets re-elected, we are finished, and I do think he will get re-elected. I keep hoping for a fatal accident, or assassin to come along, and eliminate him.”

        Shane, when challenged, claims (possibly correctly) that he was referring to just one little tiny part of rotor700′s rather much longer statement.

        If Shane is correct (only he knows) that he was referring to just one little tiny piece of rotor700′s statement then he is incorrect that his statement “You are an idiot” was clearly directed.

        ***************************************************************************************************

        All you have to do, is ask me to what I was refering to. I do have a question to you. Very simple. Your honesty is only a stake.

        When you are reply to a possibly long winded or multiple issue comment. Have you ever, in fact multiple times, answer only the one question of many that were in the comment in a your reply?

        I do. Usually the my reply answers as to what I am replying to. One can always ask for my thoughts on the other missing topics.

    • GRusling

      Sorry rotor700… No new bill is necessary… just a slight rewrite of the rules (which happens all the time) and they’ll be setup everywhere you look…

      • rotor700

        I will see if I can find what I read about it and post it here.I would also say if I’m and idiot there are several real true Imbiciles posting here also.Take Shane for instance. He is unable to handle reality.

      • Shane

        Reality is, is that rotor700 is advocating the assassination of our sitting president. I disagree with premeditated murder of our president. So my name is connected to “Shame.” What name should be connected withRotor700? I would say “basement patriot.”

      • Shane

        The reality of the issue, has presented by rotor700. Is that if you disagree with the assassination of our sitting president, you are shameful and not a patriot.

        Interesting!

      • DaveH

        Assassination of Obama would just make him a martyr. That’s the last thing any thinking people would want.
        It certainly has become a sad state of affairs though, when we allow our Presidents to openly assassinate other citizens. And anybody, who doesn’t think that apathy will come back to bite us in the butt, better think again, because we all will be targets some day of one dictator or the other, if we don’t reacquire our moral compasses.

      • phideaux

        rotor700 I read something about that myself. I think it was in an article by Lee Bellinger (sp?). Will try to find it.

        Shane it is obvious you have no rebuttal for rotor700′s statement about TSA so you have to twist his words to try and have an argument about something else. Give it up you are a poor excuse for Flashman who excells at twisting others words into pretzels so he can argue against them.

      • Shane

        Phideaux, please note the time stamp. Your comment came in at 12:14 p.m. Would not want to be you. :-)

        *************************************************************************************************

        Shane says:

        August 3, 2012 at 11:40 am

        Flushy, while I’ll agree with some of your positions. You are yourself, out of control. Your adhominem against the tea party is baseless, as are some of your other flabbergast statements.

        The TSA in its present form needs dispanding. GW and other republicans are responsible, along with democrats for this attack on freedom.

        We do need security measures, that are measured, at our airports. But not by groping government workers with IQ’s to the left of the clapper.

        Flushy, you do yourself no service, by consistently being without self control.

      • Shane

        Phideaux, note the time stamp. 12:07 p.m. compared to your condemnation of me later.

        Phideaux, I challege you to present just one clear example of me being a liberal and a big government type. Just one. No twisting of words or semantic gymnastics.

        ********************************************************************************************

        Shane says:

        August 3, 2012 at 12:07 pm

        DaveH, I liked your comment about “who’ll protect us from the enforcers?” I really do. This is what concerns me about the this present adminstration and the topic this blogs is about, the TSA.

        But who’ll protect us from the likes of you. That have “all’ the answers. Along with little patiences for those that come up short, however short from the gospel of DaveH.

        Power does corrupt. Those with the highest opinion of themself, and the least for the nomal differences in others, “will” abuse the rights of others. I mean why not. It would be wrong for someone so “right” not to enforce upon others, actions that the ONE finds so evidently correct.

        So I fear. I take that back. I don’t fear you DaveH, you’re a false patriot in PJ’s. But I do fear and take notice of those individuals, many in our government, that claim to have all the answers, and wish to unmercifully dictate control over my life and that of my family.

      • Shane

        Phideaux here’s another, little boy.

        Phideaux, you have been challeged, and found missing.

        I will ask again, where does my liberalism shine? My love for big federal goverment?

        Tick-tock……..tick-tock……tick-tock….. tick-tock….tick-tock…tick-tock..tick-tock.tick-tock

        Phideaux its so sad being you.

        But you can change.

        *****************************************************************************************

        Shane says:

        August 3, 2012 at 12:25 pm

        DaveH, just where did I propose giving more, or even the same government control over my life?

        You really need to read with eyes open, and mind engaged.

        But prove me wrong.

        Where are those comments?

        I’ll be lurking for you.

      • Shane

        Phideaux,

        It’s obvious that you have sympathy with those few to this site that wish assassination of our president. You have refused to disavow that statment while zeroing in on a much less worthy subject in that comment.

      • DaveH

        Now he’s talking to himself. I figured it would just be a matter of time.
        Seek Help, Shane.

      • phideaux

        “Phideaux, you have been challeged, and found missing.

        I will ask again, where does my liberalism shine? My love for big federal goverment?

        Tick-tock……..tick-tock……tick-tock….. tick-tock….tick-tock…tick-tock..tick-tock.tick-tock”

        Unlike you Shane I have better things to do than sit at my computer all day. Unlike you I don’t sit in mommy’s basement in my underwear scratching my butt while I make nonsence statements. NOW, show us where I ever said anything about liberalism either pro or con concerning you. Show us where I made any comment about your like or dislike for big government.

    • ConJay

      No, Michele has to do the killing. Otherwise the entire country will be thrown into total chaos, worse thn it has ever been.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      I think that MANY of the people in this country would celebrate if Obama met an untimely demise.

      • Ted Crawford

        America is rarely well served by the untimely removal of the President! It’s even more egregious when it’s done by violence! It not only impacts on our character, the results are usually damaging!
        If Lincoln, not one of my favorite Presidents, had lived, we would have a much different Country today. Had JFK been allowed to finish, again not my favorite, but light-years ahead of the one who took over, we probably do not become involved in the Viet Nam War !

      • DaveH

        Yeah, it would have been different alright:
        http://lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo211.html

        For one thing there’d probably be a lot fewer people.

      • Michael J.

        Mark Are Reynolds,
        If the event you describe were to happen, we’d be stuck Biden our time with an abominable dunderhead who is living proof that a lobotomy doesn’t signal the end of life.

        Second thought… couldn’t be much worse.

  • FreedomFighter

    TSA is not for stopping terrorists, unless you consider all Americans potential terrorists.

    The Totalitarian Slave Authority is to control you, put hands on you, your children, your wife. Its here to get you used to being a slave, to weed out those that will submit, and those that will not submit, and imprison/kill them.

    Some call the TSA – The Satanic Army, any way you cut it, the TSA is here to subdue you the American.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • rotor700

      Exactly!

  • Kreynolds5

    If conservatives will get out and vote in November

    • rotor700

      Yes, I agree with that, but I think the voting will be rigged in someway or other in obamas favor. I believe that preperations for this have been ongoing for years, to insure the growth of the liberal base through propaganda in our education system, as well as selective immigration policies to make sure only those sympathetic to socialism were allowed to immigrate, such as all those suckers coming across our souther border, who come from such wonderful democracies. LOL

      • DaveH

        If you want to stop the illegal immigration, vote for Socialism.
        They will no longer desire to come here when our economy sucks like theirs does.

  • rotor700

    [excessively long post removed, please provide link to article]

  • Ted Crawford

    Given the recent breach of our Nuclear Facility, Y-12 at Oak Ridge, guarded by a private security(?) company G4s, I wonder just how good an idea this really might be!

    • DaveH

      Oh yeah, substitute public employees who have nothing to lose if they fail in their jobs, and nothing to gain if they excel in their jobs. That will do the trick.

      • Ted Crawford

        Good point DaveH, it seems that in this case I’m the one guilty of a knee-jerk reaction ! However something needs to be done to correct this problem !

    • TML

      It’s not just the government incompetence that Dave refers to, but also the tax payer money that funds the federal agency verses the private agency. A private agency would pay for their own security, through the customers using the service, and would encourage better security through liability.

      Protestors storming a fence to a nuclear plant isn’t a comparable example to transportation security… which is what we are talking about with the TSA. Private security was effective enough to allow only box cutters on the flights of 9/11… I’m sure it would be adequate after restricting these items on their own.

  • rotor700

    TO whomever is moderator, I made a mistake with my posting as it is repeated several times, and if you have the ability to edit it please do.

  • Hedgehog

    If people started shooting TSA agents, could they use the defense that “these things are set to go off randomly”?

  • Patriot Higgins

    Contraband has moved on aircraft since the wright brothers. Until ( & when) the criminals start inspecting anises’
    & virginas on each flight than they are just herding the sheep,& stealing as much cash as possible from the people
    in the name of drug money.
    (tsa) The Satanic Army now employs about 80 thousand welfare cases with retirement bennies. That is also 80k
    votes for the criminals. They have stolen millions but found “0″ terrorist. If they would have the guts to look into A mirror than they would see 80 thousand of them. If we complain to much than we will see A false flag attack from the same criminals. I am afraid that the sheeple are not going to wake up.
    I have refused to fly since the start of the Satanic Army. I write to vacation sites to tell them why I will not use there services until I can feel safe boarding A plane again. That means never again.
    Cut the budget? I see many Billions to cut the criminals off.
    How many have they killed on the highways with people who refuse to be treated like slaves on there planes??
    The bus/train/highways are next. PAPERS PLEASE!!

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      It’s been happening on the highways for quite some time, under the guise of “safety checks”. A couple of years ago my husband and I were traveling on I 80 in western Nebraska. Around North Platte the highway patrol closed the interstate and forced everyone off onto a rest area. Lots of guys with guns and dogs. After asking for my husband’s papers and checking to see if his headlights and taillights worked, the officer proceeded to interrogate my husband. “Where are you traveling from? What was your business there? Where are you traveling to? etc…). I’m in the passenger seat telling my husband to say, none of your business. I’m saying, “when did we cross the border into Russia? I thought this was the United States of America!”. My husband was saying “shut up, shut up, we don’t want to be detained any longer than necessary”. I believe we should have stood up to them and said, none of your business! I was furious! I wrote to the governor, I wrote to our state legislators, our congressmen, our senators. I wrote a letter for the public section of the newspaper. I got one response from one of the senators saying safety checks were legal. It was the interrogation that concerned me but no one cared! What has happened to the United States of America?!? She’s gone! They took her while we weren’t paying attention! If we don’t WAKE UP and REFUSE to submit to this, we’ll have NOTHING left! It has come to this: we are no different than Russia or nazi Germany!!!

      • DaveH

        Your Senator was lying, Nancy. Safety Checks are not legal. No fishing expeditions by Government are legal. If we meekly put up with them, they will become more common and more intrusive.
        We’ve had that kind of abuse where I live in Arizona, but they usually are short-lived as soon as people start raising hell about them.
        Always resist. Always ask them where their warrant is. If you have to wait a few minutes, or even hours, it is far better than what they will later have in store for us when they think we will no longer resist.

  • Thinking About

    For someone who aspires to become president one day and commander-in-chief, I just wonder how he ever expects to have the ability to command our military when he is the chief non-compliant “citizen” in chief. I doubt he would ever become president but he is true to the “we make the rules for everyone else but we don’t follow the same rules” Congress we now have. On the earmarks, he was trained well by his father who attaches earmarks to bills he knows is going to pass and then votes against the bill claiming he never votes for spending and runs to his home district with the money. Neither can be a hero.

    • DaveH

      It’s the spending that is the problem. There would be no earmarks if there were no spending.
      Ron Paul defends his earmarks:
      http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/your-world-cavuto/2009/03/11/rep-ron-paul-defends-his-earmarks-spending-bill

      • DaveH
      • DaveH
      • Thinking About

        Spending is spending, since Paul claims to “vote against spending”, then he should not “spend” by adding earmarks. He is not true to his word, he can defend his earmarks for as long has he pleases but he is part of he problem also.

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          Paul defended his position with integrity as usual……Paul is the lone warrior against the federal monster, and I believe him he said if elected president the first thing he would’ve done is gut the Dept. of Energy & Dept. of Education…He certainly would’ve tried to!

      • DaveH

        Did you read or listen to any of the links, TA?
        The earmarks Paul adds just specify where the money goes that has already been allocated for spending (if the bill passes). But he doesn’t get his earmarks if the bill (which he voted against) doesn’t pass.
        Is that simple enough for you to understand?

  • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

    Hey Chip, I’m keeping about 100 pounds of it dry. Is that enough?

  • Guy Rich

    So how is privatizing the TSA going to change anything?
    Instead the Senator should be filing a class-action lawsuit against the TSA, Dept of Homeland Security (also unecessary) and the Justice Dept. for the GROSS violation of
    our Fourth Amendment Right against UNREASONABLE Search and seizure.
    There’s NO PROBABLE CAUSE involved.

    • Thomas

      It is a lot easier than that. Everyone must refuse to submit to the search process. History has shown, civil disobedience works. If everyone resisted they would get the picture quickly and make a change. But some of the sheep are too scared to get involved. Until people organize and resist this will go on & on. The system is too corrupt and lawsuits take too long, or manipulated for political reasons. Someone is making way too much money of this security paranoia to let it change. Fallow the MONEY. It’s all about Money. They even want a president named Rmoney. They think “Your Money is Rmoney.”

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      The federal government is protected! You can’t sue them!

      • DaveH

        Once the people realize that they are just the Biggest Gang in the land, the rest of their actions are understandable.

  • Thomas

    It wasn’t the system that made this country strong. There are many co-ops that work well, ask any farmer. It is the American people that are the backbone of this country. Republicans keep getting that confused. Libertarianism will never succeed as long as it lines itself up with those criminal politicians in both the corrupt parties. You can’t build a new house on a rotting structure. You have to rip it down to the foundation.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Flyboy41

    Wake up Sheeple! The only other time you have to empty your pockets, take off belt and shoes, get wanded, pat down, questioned, and/or put in a holdiing cell is when you’re arrested and processed for a felony, or as a POW. The sole purpose for TSA is your mental conditioning for future relocation and internment camps…not airport-travel security! By submitting to this frequent incarceration, you’re forfeiting your God-given Rights, and surrendering to blatant tyranny. No other nation on the planet does this to it’s people. Are We, the People really that stupid? Apparently, we are! Unless, that is, we demand an end to this unAmerican agency NOW before the drill becomes the reality! To hell with the TSA’s fascist union of low-life stazi goons! This is still America IF you’ll have it.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    I wonder how many Americans have been subject to humiliation by the TSA. TSA spells TERROR: A physial or psychological act, possibly violent in nature, committed to gain SUBMISSION. We are living with Bush, the shrubs, legacy to America with Iraq, the TSA, the patriot act and on and on. Obama picked up the ball when Bush left. The congress and senate save very few might as well be called anti-American with their support of bills contrary to the Constitution. Don’t tell “the supreme court”. Their nothing but politicians donning robes during their work days. The buck stops with the American people and the tide can only change if the American people change. If we want moral interpretations of the law then we have to be moral, all of us.

  • cbond01

    Ran Paul is 100% right and the Unions do not like it, so they demonize Him.

  • http://Google Tom

    Yea, Yea, all of you Democrats blame Bush. At that time he knew nothing else to do. America had a problem, just been attacked, think about it. Well, he had NO control what the Obama administration has changed, like UNIONIZE the TSA. and other changes they made starting in 2009, under Obama leadership, which we all know what a JOKE!
    But, I agree, we need to change it. They will cost Tax payers BILLIONS with their BENEFITS. So, LETS do it?

    • Thinking About

      If ture your statement he did not know what else to do, then why did he attack Iraq? Maybe the answer is he lied about going into Iraq on the “WMD’s” and the real reason is because Saddam threatened his “daddy”. And further more why did he cease “thinking about bin Laden”.

      • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

        The Iraqi WMDs are probably the ones in Syria now…..Is wasn;t just the WMDs, Saddam kept ignoring Un resolutions, 19 of them…..We had to go in to see if he had them, & dispose him…., the nation-buliding there & in Afgahnistan was the HUGE mistake..

        If we did not go in & Saddam did something terrible, the DEMS would be screaming bloody murder & blaming Bush for not doing anything…the President takes an oath to defend the nation & that is what Bush did..

        What is a war crime is Obama’s “Kill List”…not the use of the drones, but labeling “ALL YOUNG ADULT MALES” in an area, without any clear evidence ,terrorists, is Horrible….it is a crime against humanity, far worse than anything Bush ever did!!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.754 Benjamin Fox

    TSA, Terrible Security Assc. They suck a 100%, a bunch of idiots in charge, just like the so called president.

  • libertarian58

    “You’re not being detained; you just can’t leave.”

    This is exactly how liberals and lawyers twist the language to get what they want.

    The TSA has never caught a terrorist and never will. Their whole purpose is the surrender of American’s liberties, hence, the ‘hands in the air’ position.

  • T. Jefferson

    I would love to see all these sexual deviate animals put on the bread line. This organization needs to be dismantled and trashed.

  • ALL AMERICAN

    Get rid of the TSA!

  • http://www.facebook.com/shanna.drew Shanna Drew

    Abolish TSA.

    • Shane

      Agree

  • Neil Swan

    The rich aren’t paying their fair share of taxes. There are too many loopholes.
    The owner of the LA Dodgers made 20 million dollars a year 5 years in a row and didn’t pay a dime in Federal or State income tax. This was found out when his exwife was suing him.

    Neil

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      The solution is not more taxes, the solution is LESS SPENDING!!! Duh!

      • Neil Swan

        Less spending is not a solution, it just means you don’t give a damn about people. You only care about yourself.

        Neil

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        I disagree. Less spending, and the practice of fiscal responsibility means i do, give a damn for the people, as it would ensure i didn’t spend more then what came in. Thereby, ensuring a positive balance in the bank-account, or surplus, for such things as; emergencies, the necessities ect..

        Mindless spending, and the practise of fiscal irresponsibility not only shows that you don’t give a damn for the people, as well, it shows that you are a complete simpleton with respect to finances.

        If you spend more then you make, and in addition to that, borrow extensively, not only will you guarantee bankruptcy, but you will end up with no house, and with no means with which to provide for your family. Another words, you would be reduced to nothing more then a irresponsible-bum!

      • Thinking About

        Jay who do you expect to pay back the money already spent? It is immoral to pass this on to the next generations.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        The federal reserve board, a government board, has cheated the governmentof the United States and the people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt.

        The depredations and the iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks acting together have cost this country enough money to pay the national debt several times over.”

        About the Federal Reserve banks, Rep. McFadden said, “They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; the rich and predatory money lenders. This is an era of economic misery and for the reasons that caused that misery, the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks are fully liable.”

        On the subject of media control he state, “Half a million dollars was spent on one part of the propaganda organized by those same European bankers for the purpose of misleading public opinion in regard to it.”

        Rep. McFadden continued, “Every effort has been made by the Federal Reserve Board to conceal its power but the truth is the Federal Reserve Board has usurped the government of the United States. it controls everything here and it controls all our foreign relations. it makes and breaks governments at will.

        No man and no body of men is more entrenched in power than the arrogant credit monopoly which operates the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks.

        These evil-doers have robbed this country of more than enough money to pay the national debt. What the Government has permitted the Federal Reserve Board to steal from the people should now be restored to the people.

        “Our people’s money to the extent of $1,200,000,000 has within the last few months been shipped abroad to redeem Federal Reserve Notes and to pay other gambling debts of the traitorous Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks. The greater part of our monetary stock has been shipped to foreigners.

        Why should we promise to pay the debts of foreigners to foreigners? Why should American Farmers and wage earners add millions of foreigners to the number of their dependents? Why should the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal Reserve banks be permitted to finance our competitors in all parts of the world?” Rep. McFadden asked.

        “The Federal Reserve Act should be repealed and the Federal Reserve banks, having violated their charters, should be liquidated immediately.

        Faithless government officers who have violated their oaths should be impeached and brought to trial”, Rep. McFadden concluded (Reference 1, contains an entire chapter on Rep. McFadden’s speech).

        If the media is unbiased, independent and completely thorough, why haven’t they discussed the FED? Currently, half the states have at least a grass roots movement in action to abolish the FED, but there’s no press coverage.

        In July, 1968, the House Banking Subcommittee reported that Rockefeller, through Chase Manhattan Bank, controlled 5.9% of the stock in CBS. Furthermore, the bank had gained interlocking directorates with ABC.

        In 1974, Congress issued a report stating that the Chase Manhattan Bank’s stake in CBS rose to 14.1% and NBC to 4.5% (through RCA, the parent company of NBC). The same report said that the Chase Manhattan Bank held stock in 28 broadcasting firms.

        After this report, the Chase Manhattan Bank obtained 6.7% of ABC, and today the percentage could be much greater. It only requires 5% ownership to significantly influence the media (Reference 14, P. 56-57).

        This is only one of 300 wealthy shareholders of the FED. It is believed other FED owners have similar holdings in the media. To control the media, FED bankers call in their loans if the media disagrees with them.

        Rockefeller also controls the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the sole purpose of which is to aid in stimulating greater interest in foreign affairs and in a one world government. Nearly every major newscaster belongs to the Council on Foreign Relations.

        The Council on Foreign Relations controls many major newspapers and magazines. Additionally, major corporations owned by FED shareholders are the source of huge advertising revenues which surely would influence the media (Reference 14, P. 56-59). It can be no wonder why groups such as FED-UP(tm) receive minimal, if any, press attention.

        How do taxpayers stop financing those whose purpose it is to destroy us? First, expose their activity, then demand change.

        THE SOLUTION:

        Currently all we do is exchange FED money (interest attached) for real U.S. money (interest-free) dollar for dollar as Kennedy tried to do.

        We should not be required to pay interest on our own currency. According to Benjamin Franklin, this was one of the primary reasons we fought the Revolutionary War. Today we are still fighting the same family of bankers (Reference 4, Reference 1, P. 211, 212).

        The U.S. Government can buy back the FED at any time for $450 million (per Congressional record). The U.S. Treasury could then collect all the profit on our money instead of the 300 original shareholders of the FED.

        The $4 trillion of U.S. debt could be exchanged dollar for dollar with U.S. non- interest bearing currency when the debt becomes due. There would be no inflation because there would be no additional currency in circulation.

        Personal income tax could be cut if we bought back the FED and therefore, the economy would expand. According to the Constitution, Congress is to control the creation of money, keeping the amount of inflation or deflation in check. If Congress isn’t doing their job, they should be voted out of office. Unfortunately, voters can’t vote the FED or its Chairman out of office.

        If the government has a deficit, we could handle it as Lincoln and Kennedy did. Print money and circulate it into the economy, but this time interest-free.

        Today the FED, through foreign banks, owns much of our debt and therefore controls us. The FED will cease to exist as taxpayers become informed and tell other taxpayers. The news media and Congress will have no choice but to meet the demands of grass roots America. (Reference 1, P. 17, 22)

        By law (check the Congressional record), we can buy back the FED for the original investment of the FED’s 300 shareholders, which is $450 million (Reference 1, P. 227, Reference 17, P. 36).

        If each taxpayer paid $25, we could buy back the FED and all the profit would flow into the U.S. Treasury.

        In other words, by Congress allowing the constitutionally illegal FED to continue, much of your taxes go to the shareholders of the FED and their bankers.

        Note: The people who enacted the FED started the IRS, within months of the FED’s inception. The FED buys U.S. debt with money they printed from nothing, then charges the U.S. taxpayers interest. The government had to create income tax to pay the interest expense to the FED’s shareholders, but the income tax was never legally passed (Reference 20 shows details, state-by-state why it was not legally passed).

        The FED is illegal, per Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution. Not one state legally ratified the 16th Amendment making income tax legal.

        Currently, fewer and fewer Americans are being convicted for refusal to pay income taxes. In IRS jury trials, the jury, by law, must decide if the law is just. If taxpayers do not believe the law is just, the jury may declare the accused innocent.

        Judges are legally bound to inform juries of their right to determine the fairness of a law. Judges often do not disclose this information so they can control the court outcome.

        Luckily, more and more citizens are becoming informed. If one juror feels the law is unfair, they can find the defendant innocent (Reference 19). In Utah, the IRS quit prosecuting taxpayers because jurors verdict is not guilty. Please tell your friends and sit in the next jury.

        If we eliminate the FED and uphold the Constitution, we could balance the budget and cut personal income tax to almost nothing.

        In Congressional hearings on September 30, 1941, FED Chairman Eccles admitted that the FED creates new money from thin air (printing press), and loans it back to us at interest (Reference 17, P. 93). On June 6, 1960, FED President Mr. Allen admitted essentially the same thing (Reference 22, P. 164). If you or I did this we would go to jail.

        It is time to abolish the FED! Tell your friends the truth and win America back. We don’t even need to buy back the FED. We only need to print money the way the Constitution
        requires, not the new proposed international money. We want to keep our sovereignty and print real U.S. money.

        So you see, TA, the future generation need not be burdened with this fictitious debt, but they could, but only as a result of ignorant people who insist on keeping and feeding the monstrosity we affectionately refer to as, the FED! There’s no need to go after “THE RICH” as progressive dolt’s seem to be determined do to; Just ABOLISH the FED. Its that simple!

        http://educate-yourself.org/cn/fedreservebankexplained19dec05.shtml

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          All you say is true….but, at this point, to those who try to abolish the Fed, you better pray to almighty God for protection!!! In the coming Age of Aquarius, there can be no such animals as the Fed & political ends as sad remains will die!!

      • DaveH

        TA says — “Jay who do you expect to pay back the money already spent? It is immoral to pass this on to the next generations”.
        Well, you’re learning TA (a little at least). Yes, it certainly is. But then so is spending money that wasn’t theirs in the first place by borrowing it from the Federal Reserve or somebody else. In fact, spending any money that didn’t come equally from each of the citizens is immoral. It’s bad enough that they get to spend other peoples’ money on projects those other people don’t approve of, but it’s even worse to spend other peoples’ money on projects they don’t approve when you haven’t even contributed the same amount of money.
        If you want to have morality, you need to get to the root of the problem — People (Government) spending other unwilling peoples’ money. That’s theft any way you rationalize it.

      • DaveH

        The Constitution, Article I, Section 8:
        “The Congress shall have Power…..
        To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures”.

        Coining money is a lot different than printing worthless (by themselves) fiat dollars.
        Money needs to have real value by itself, such as Gold, or Silver, in order to keep banks and others (including Government) from creating it willy-nilly out of thin air. The temptation for abuse in the case of unbacked paper money is limitless. Take Zimbabwe, for example:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    Burn the communist constitution, aka “The Patriot Act”!

    • Neil Swan

      Jay
      So the people you care about are millionaires and billionaires.

      Neil

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Why do you say that?

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          Ryan’s budgets closed a lot of loopholes…people never talked about that…Millionaires & Billionaires create jobs…..loads of them!!!.

          • Jeff

            Butlers, chauffeurs

          • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

            Little envious there Jeffy??? Pull a napkin up by the top & the whole napkin rises!!!

          • Jeff

            How many jobs were created by the Bush Tax Cuts? Businsses hire people when there’s enough demand in the system for their products. The owner’s tax rates have nothing to do with hiring decisions. Corporate America is sitting on trillions of dollars. If simply having cash were the determining factor, businesses should be hiring millions of new workers. They aren’t because the middle class doesn’t have enough money to by enough of their products. The focus has to be on stimulating the economic fortunes of the middle class. Trickle up actually works unlike the Republican alternative.

          • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

            They’re sitting on their money because they’ve been over-regulated to death by Obozo & his corrupt cabal, afraid of all kinds of looming EPA BS & the ridiculous healthcare law….The only way out of this mess is cutting spending, you could tax everyone 100%, it won’t make a dent….

          • Jeff

            So, you believe in self-regulation like W? It doesn’t work. You can’t have a market system without an effective regulator. Pollution controls are nothing more than making sure a market participant who fouls the commons has to factor the cost of cleanup into the price of his product. Otherwise, the manufacturer is getting subsidized by Government.

            The effects of self-regulation: bank failures, massive environmental disasters, etc.

            There’s a reason we had a stable banking system from the 30s until we started deregulating in the 80s. We had the S&L crisis; then we got rid of Glass-Steagall and 10 years later, another, larger crisis. Dodd-Frank is maybe a decent start but is not sufficient to restore sanity to the banking industry. Yet, to hear the Republicans yell about it, you’d think Lenin had just nationalized the banks. You guys cry wolf over every weak-kneed regulation and expect people to take you seriously. I have never heard any Republican describe ANY regulation as anything but unnecessary. Surely even most conservatives realize what a ridiculous position that is.

          • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

            Of course, you need regulations, but the Dems go WAY Overboard…Glass-Steagall, good Old Clinton out that one in…the Dodd-fFank Bill, proves the road to Hell is paved with good intentions..over 2,200 pages of stifling regs, & it won’t even do a thing to prevent another bank bailout….You need to WAKE UP!!!

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    Bush’s critics often cite his decisions to lead the country into two costly and deadly “wars” as the leading reasons why his presidency ranks at the very bottom (Congress has not formally “declared war” since 1941). Although many liberals believe the Afghanistan War was justifiable, they almost uniformly disagree with the Iraq War, citing Bush’s failure to uncover “weapons of mass destruction.” Many liberals also disagree with the execution of the war and lament its rising costs and human toll. But what position did Democrats in Congress take on the wars? [Editor's Note: For the record, I disagreed with both wars.]

    If the decision to invade Afghanistan helps to make Bush the worst president, then Democrats cannot claim the moral high ground whatsoever. The Authorization for Use of Military Force, which permitted the invasion of Afghanistan, passed in the House 420-1 (and 10 abstentions); it passed in the Senate 98-0 (and 2 abstentions). Most Bush critics, however, reserve their deepest anger for the Iraq War.

    The resolution to authorize the invasion of Iraq produced mixed results among Democrats. A majority of House Democrats voted against the resolution. Although the measure passed in the House by a vote of 296-133, the vote among Democrats was 82-126 (with 1 abstention). In the Senate, however, the measure passed by a vote of 77-23; among Democrats, the vote was 29-21. So, while House Democrats declined to authorize a war that a majority of the public supported, Senate Democrats agreed with Bush and the public — but not to the same extent as Republicans.

    Although Democratic lawmakers split their votes on the Iraq War, a closer look at “who” voted in favor of the resolution reveals an interesting pattern.

    The group of Democrats who voted in favor of the Iraq War includes some very powerful figures, such as: Hillary Clinton, Obama’s Secretary of State; Joe Biden, Obama’s Vice President; Tom Daschle, Obama’s Secretary of Health and Human Services; John Kerry, Democratic Presidential Nominee 2004, and Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader. If supporting the war shows a “lack of judgment” (as Obama said) or, if it helps to make Bush the worst president, then Democrats must share part of the stigma they assign to
    Bush.

    http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.ca/2009/01/hold-them-accountable-too-many.html

    • Thinking About

      Remind me of who went to Congress with falsehoods to get the war started? Don’t blame this on the Democrats who voted yes in response to Bush request, how about the Republicans who had the numbers to vote no and they did not and their numbers would have been enough to stop the request, the Democrats did not have enough votes to stop it. And beside this information, Bush made the decision to continue so the buck stops on his desk. Rewriting history will not change these facts.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        The point of the article, TA, was to show both parties essentially want the same thing, and both parties are owned, and work, for the same money master’s. They most certainly do not work, nor represent the American people. To suggest that one party is better or worse then the other, is to place two turds side by side, and pick out the one least offensive, or most appealing.

    • Farleyagain

      Yes, Jay, and many think the real reason for our invasion of Iraq was Saddaam Hussein’s decision to trade oil in currencies other than the dollar. As you know, the US (and the Fed) make money on every oil trade done in US dollars, and the OPEC agreement to use only dollars has helped our bottom line significantly. Wonder why there is so much war talk about Iran? Same reason.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Farleyagain, you are absolutely correct! Same goes Mubarak, and Gaddafi!

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          Why did the nations go into Libya & not Syria, which is a much worse situation? OIL,… Libya provides a lot of oil to Italy & France

      • Jeff

        And some think it was Saddam’s willingness to defy OPEC’s dictates and pump “too much” oil.

  • http://www.facebook.com/carlton.king.12 Carlton King

    You said TSA was the most hated U.S. institution. In my case thats not so. Homeland Security & the Dept. of Justice are right up there with them. Not only hated, but feared.

  • Neil Swan

    OOOOPPert EEEEpert
    The thing that creates jobs is people buying the profucts and services. It depends on the middle class. If companies don’t sell they don’t hire people.

    Neil

    • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

      Who creates a lot of the jobs that enable the middle class to buy the products…who risks a lot of the money that goes towards research that creates the products?

    • Thinking About

      Neil, you are very right, all the companies operating in the USA and attempting to sell their products and services would go broke if they depended on the 1% to keep them in business. Yes, the 99% are the job creators so let’s go for not taxing the job creators, starting at $250,000 is a good point to start.

      • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

        This whole 1%, 99% thing is not of GOD, it is a trick of the Devil & pols like Obama trying to divide us….souls do not understand the Cosmic Laws of Abundance, every good & perfect gift comes from on High….God’s pie is infinite, if your neighbor has a big slice, it does not mean that you have to have a small one….you can have the same or bigger, or better, whatever you desire can be yours, whatever your soul needs….”If ye be willing & obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land.” (ISAIAH 1:18)

    • DaveH

      Neil says — “The thing that creates jobs is people buying the profucts and services. It depends on the middle class. If companies don’t sell they don’t hire people”.
      No Neil. The thing that creates jobs is people investing in capital equipment and plants which provide the wherewithal to create more products more cheaply, and more higher paying jobs. Without those jobs, the people can desire products and services all they want, but they don’t have the money to pay for those desires.
      Please do some reading so that you better understand what drives an economy.
      I recommend starting here:
      http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/What%20Has%20Government%20Done%20to%20Our%20Money.pdf

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        The real problem we have, and I can’t say it often enough, is that Big Government is draining our financial resources.
        In 1900 they spent only 3% of our GDP. Now they spend over 40%. That’s a 13X increase in their size. Is it any wonder that with that elephant in the room, we aren’t prosperous?

      • Thinking About

        The Paul crew needs to get out of the earmark welfare line. They are just like the folks who could and should be productive in life and choose to stay in the welfare line and declares others are getting welfare and I want welfare also except those in the welfare lines admits they are after welfare and the Paul crew tries to paint a different picture on it. Earmarks does not pay down the debt, it adds to the debt.

      • Neil Swan

        When companies don’t sell they lay people off.

        Neil

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          Or they change things, make things better, improve, etc….

  • Neil Swan

    OOOOPPert EEEEpert
    It’s obvious you have never been a manager. You hire people when you need work done.
    Not because you want to do people a favor.

    Neil

    • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

      no, never been a manager…..But, you misconstrue my words, who ever mentioned favors?.., I know you shouldn’t hire if you don’t need the workers, I just said that a lot of the rich & well-to-do create businesses & corporations, industries that hire people & create opportunities, etc, to me they are not evil, although like anything there are many who live in & are guided by the darkness…..As a matter of fact, most of these cats are too sharp to hire workers they don’t need.

      • Neil Swan

        I didn’t say they were evil. I just think they sould pay taxes like the rest of us.

        Neil

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          I agree…we need a simple tax code, no loopholes & true enforcement

      • http://none Claire

        Neil—I agree. Everyone should pay their fair share of taxes. The middle class sure has to pay their taxes and they sure as hell do not have the “loopholes” that others have. But it has always been the middle class that has carried the rich and the poor. And guess what?? The middle class is going down the tubes because of the unfairness of it all.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        There’s no point in setting up any sort of a tax-system until the Fed is abolished, and Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution is put into action by Congress. Until then, you can tax every able-bodied American 100%, rich and poor alike, and it wont make the slightest bit of difference.

  • http://none Claire

    I will do my research and whomever offers the best policies will get my vote. And I won’t give a damn if they are Republican or Democrat. This party affiliation crap is what has ruined this country.

    • FreedomFighter

      Both Demon-rat and Repub-inacan are bought and paid for by the real powers of this world and both are leading America to Socialist=Communist totalitarian government or maybe some facist version/combination and away from the constitution of the USA.

      The Demon-rats are the fast track and Repubs a slower road, both going the same way, you will find little differance in policy or goals, just as Obummer kept doing everything Bush did, then expanded on it.

      America and Americans are not prepared for the horrors to unleashed on them, the totalitarian NWO types hate individual freedom, hate liberty, hate the constitution and have stated numerious publication and interviews – they want 70-90 percent of the worlds population dead, the remainder enslaved, drugged, stunted mentally and physically as they the elite persue god-hood.

      Hard to wrap your head around this its just so incredable, but its verifiable by reading over 100-300 years of thier own publications, probably goes back allot futher, Im just not that good of a researcher.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

        One cannot say it any better!!!! The Constitution is divine document & America is a nation sponsored by the Hosts Of Heaven, and it is Cosmic Law that wherever Light is, the dark forces will come to snuff it out, like moths to a flame…. this happened to America almost instantly from its birth & is still going on, many fallen angels are in positions of power here in many nations….but, as The Age of Aquarius begins, they will taken forever for their final judgment, never to come back again…that is why things look so bleak, because they are getting desperate,, they know the bell is tolling for them, but fear not, since Light is stronger than darkness & evil, it will triumph in the end!

        AMERICA=” I AM RACE”…..NAME OF GOD= “I AM THAT I AM”

        To learn more about the Divine origins of America, see; SAINT GERMAIN
        Summit Lighthouse
        Mark and Elizabeth Prophet
        Herbert W. Armstrong, “America & Britain in Prophecy”

      • Jeff

        I’m constantly amazed at your ability to operate a computer with your arms in a straightjacket.

        • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

          Now, now, boys , play nice…no reason to get personal !!!
          Jeff, there is much truth in the Da Vinci Code, there is a battle everyday between dark & light for individual souls & for the souls of nations as well….both sides have sold us down the river…the article that set off all these discussions was about Rand Paul…well, Ron & Rand & a scant few others are all we got right now against the Demons!!! Pray for them, pray for their protection & that more & more of our leaders, pols, judges, journalists & citizens join them!!!

          THE LIGHT OF GOD NEVER FAILS !!!!

      • FreedomFighter

        Slaves to The Banksters

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASemxYtD2H8&feature=em-uploademail

        Jeff, Im constantly amazed at your ability to operate a computer, blind, deaf, and your head stuck in a-hole.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Freedom Fighter is correct, Jeff; absolutely correct!!!

  • gen ah

    hold the red star proudly over head… rush2112

    • OOOOPPert EEEEpert

      It’s “Hold the Red Star proudly high in HAND”……..and what you take into your hand, you take into your heart, “Therefore, come out from among them & be ye separate, saith the Lord & touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.” ( 2 Corinthians 6:17)

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  • ALVIS JENKINS

    the answer to this delima is in your pocketbook folks. The DC boys and girls depend on you so they can have TSA parties for the folks who fly the airwaves. Stop paying the one tax you have never owed to the Government (income tax) and watch all of these Patriot programs go out of business.

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