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Prima Facie

August 29, 2011 by  

Prima Facie

Prima Facie is a legal term that translates as “on its first appearance” or “at first sight.” This also means self-evident.

In other words, if something is prima facie, no inquiry is needed to further investigate. All evidence is contained on the face of a subject.

The American people see and interpret prima facie. They do not inquire beyond that which appears as “public” information.

The reality is that most information comes to us in layers. The truth is beneath the surface and beneath the written or spoken word. Information from the public media and from official and political sources comes in layers. The first layer is what our natural senses perceive and retain as fact. This is almost 100 percent deceptive.

However, inquiring beneath the first layer, or prima facie, brings us closer to reality and truth. The more layers peeled back and the more inquiry we make, the closer we come to reality.

Some people get through several layers. A few people get to the reality that all or almost all public information, as well as public education, is false and totally misleading.

Finally, a small number of people get through enough layers of information that they come to the shocking conclusion that government is organized crime and it is every man for himself.

Most people don’t inquire enough to get to the big shock. The ones who do rush their assets out of the country.

This is why propaganda is so effective against a population. It is human nature to see, hear and translate without inquiry or without question.

The world of most Americans is a cartoon, a fantasy or a mirage. This is the product of a controlled media and “public education.”

People control is a work in progress. The system attacks the population by dumbing the people down to the point where they have no inquiry. Everything is prima facie. Everything is what the system says it is. Our lives are prescribed and defined. We do not think our own thoughts. We have a Mickey Mouse mentality, and we dwell upon frivolity.

Dr. Ron Paul (R-Texas) is the only sober voice in American politics. He repeatedly warns the American people about the evils of our monetary non-system and how fiat paper money is in the final stages of transferring the remaining savings and wealth of the American people to the money creators.

Few people are listening!

Paul has now drilled a chink in the armor of the elite’s 100-year tyranny and financial burden of the private Federal Reserve Bank. Paul teaches and explains daily about the evils of a debt money system that is in the final stages of destroying America and impoverishing its people.

How has this monster, masquerading as a central bank, survived and prospered in our midst for several generations since 1913? The answer is back to prima facie. We accept the propaganda of the Federal Reserve and its lackey banker stooges without inquiry. The Federal Reserve Bank is organized crime at its apex and perfection.

This private cartel is at this moment creating inflation and food shortages by stepped-up money printing. It is criminal but “legal.”

The American people have been well taught to trust the system, the politicians, the bankers and the bureaucrats. They are oblivious to crime at the highest levels of government and the crime of the money creators.

The United States Congress and the U.S. Presidents are scoundrels. They get elected and stay in office by promising something they don’t have. It’s made possible because of printing-press money.

President Andrew Jackson said: “If the American people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system, there would be a revolution before morning.”

“Presidents Lincoln, Jackson and Kennedy tried to stop this family of bankers by printing U.S. dollars without charging the taxpayers interest…” (Quotes from “Bulletin” Feb. 1989 and 1991 issues, P.O. Box 986, Ft. Collins, Colo. 80522).

My friends, the sole purpose of the U.S. Federal Reserve (which is neither Federal nor reserve) is to transfer wealth from savers and producers to the non-productive creators of fiat money. We are in the final stages of the greatest wealth transfer in history, and precious few Americans are aware of it. This is a testament to how crime at the highest levels can operate for a century under the cover of prima facie. The people simply believe without inquiry what the system tells them.

We are out of time because governments in their last days engage in all kinds of tyranny and oppression under high-sounding and “patriotic” terms. Be warned and beware. As confidence collapses, aggression against the population intensifies.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • People’s Rights

    This is how I judge my friends and politicians:

    1. Actions speak louder than words.

    2. Practice what you preach.

    3. To talk a good game.

    4. Talk is cheap.

    • FreedomFighter

      Maybe some group in the future will hunt them down and bring them to justice – like what happened to many Nazi war criminals.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Old Henry

        Freedom Fighter:

        How did you weather the storm?

        • FreedomFighter

          Did very well.

          I live in heavily wooded area, really messy.

          I think I need a new chain saw. In my prep, I never imagined needing a chain saw just to get out of the drive way – food for thought I guess.

          Laus Deo
          Semper Fi

          • vicki

            These work very well for clearing trees when you don’t have fuel for chain saws.


          • Old Henry

            Freedom Fighter:

            Sounds like you are set for firewood for a while.

            Look into a Stihl. I have an 18″ and it is quite versitle and dependable. I no longer see well enough to use it, but my son loves it.

    • patrick H.T. paine

      “To conquer, first divide!”

      Still hunting David H. On the blood trail of the loudest dead FROG in
      this reflecting pool. ( my apologies to the other frogs here )

      Actually this post is somewhat apropos for the topic here…..

      The Great Water Vapor Theory re: that is the most significant greenhouse gas ( kinda, sorta but not quite ) and that it is responsible for climate change and warming. ( not at all )

      Frogs have short attention spans and while challenging this claim before, and having it slip by…..I managed to get his attention last week……unfortunately his response was not to read the information
      provided to him, but to identify me as a liberal ( good luck with that ) and to post a link to a site, where he got his rather foolish theory in the first place.

      This site, which has a lot of numbers, and draws the conclusion that
      water vapor, because is represents a larger percentage than C02….
      95% OF ALL GREENHOUSE GASES ( who wouldn’t be impressed by that, it’s
      SOOOOOOO BIG ) that clearly it MUST BE RESPNOSIBLE!!!!!!

      The problem with this IMPRESSIVE NUMBER and the SITE that uses it. is that it neglects the color of clouds and another property called:
      AL BEDO……which is similar to Al Gore…..and he probably got confused… summarise this effect: turns out when you account for the latter effect, water vapor actually has a net cooling effect.
      Of course, if you don’t bother to READ…..reading comprehension does tend to suffer… we shall try again, David.

      “To conquer, first divide!” the homo sapiens with keyboards….

      Hunting for DaveH. and your water vapor theory which btw represents 1%
      of atmospheric composition, and about 4% near the surface.

      Cirrus Clouds and Climate

      Key Investigator: Stefan Kinne/NASA

      The climate of the Earth results from an energy balance between absorbed sunlight and radiative losses of heat from Earth and its atmosphere to space. Clouds are an important modulator in this balance. Clouds reflect sunlight back toward space, which reduces the solar energy available to the Earth (albedo effect). Clouds also reduce radiative heat losses to space (greenhouse effect). Which of these two opposing processes dominates depends on many parameters including cloud particle composition, cloud structure, cloud cover, and cloud location. Changes to only one of these parameters can have significant implications for climate.

      The greenhouse effect is weak for low altitude clouds, so their albedo effect dominates and they cool the Earth’s climate. In contrast, cold high altitude cirrus clouds may either cool or warm the climate. They have a strong greenhouse effect, which may outweigh their albedo effect losses. As the importance of both opposing effects depends critically on little understood cirrus properties, theoretical calculations of the climatic effects of cirrus are controversial. The main uncertainty stems from a current inability to calculate the scattering of sunlight in cirrus clouds, since they contain a multitude of ice crystal shapes and sizes, and are irregular in structure (see Figure, top insert).

      The climatic importance of cirrus has lead to many cirrus cloud field experiments over the last decade. At NASA’s Ames Research Center we analyzed and compared remote sensing data from the ground, from satellites, and from NASA aircraft with measurements of cirrus taken simultaneously by balloon and other aircraft. Cloud properties and climate effects are linked via a model. Our calculated transmission of sunlight through cirrus is much larger than measurements indicate (see Figure bottom insert). Since the transmission is too large, the reflection must be too small. Hence, the cirrus albedo effect is severely underestimated by calculations. Yet these are the type of calculations that are repetitively used in climate prediction models.

      To better understand the impact of cirrus clouds on the Earth’s climate, we are improving the cirrus cloud representation with the aid of more complete process models. Some models simulate scattering processes on observed ice crystals shapes rather than on approximate shapes. Other models mimic a non-uniform cloud structure, which is typical of cirrus, yet commonly over-looked. Validated by field experiment data, new cirrus cloud model representations should enhance the ability to predict cirrus cloud effects on climate.

      A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and you should take your own advice, read and learn……because if you actually comprehended what is written above……the net effect of water vapor as a green house gas when one accounts for it’s opposing albedo effect, is negative for
      low clouds ( where most water vapor exists ) and undetermined for high clouds…….although you have seen those high cirrus clouds and
      trapping heat probably doesn’t work well.

      So, while water vapor has green house properties, they are totally eliminated by it’s reflective properties ( albedo ).

      BTW to make this mistake based on percentages is quite common, but citing the percentage of CO2 vs. water vapor is irrelevant, since the green house properties have to be considered…..and included in any calculation regarding net effect. Two examples for you…..

      Nitrogen and oxygen make up 95% of the atmosphere, so by your logic
      they should clearly be responsible for global warming?

      CO2 has green house properties, so does methane, and it’s atmospheric
      percentage is even less than CO2……BUT the greenhouse properties of
      methane are twenty times greater than that of CO2…….so depending
      of the relationship between them, if methane where 1/20th the percentage of CO2, the actual green house effect would be equal.

      So comprehending the information that has been offered to you, water vapor has a negative green house effect…..or at best might be neutral……..which means it is irrelevant, as is your theory or your repetition of it from whatever source you have been using.

      As a claimd atheist, I would have thought that you would have a better grasp of logical argument and an understanding of logical fallacies, yet what YOU have offered here is nothing BUT fallacies.

      Regardless of the atmospheric percentage of CO2, it is the first gas with greenhouse properties that matter, stands currently at a little less than 400 ppm, and when this level reaches 600 ppm, we will have what is known as a runaway greenhouse effect, or a reducing atmosphere. ( if you don’t understand what this means, trust me, it’s not good. ) Also, climate change related to the effects of CO2, is locked in for the next fifty years…….regardless of what we do….
      which at the moment is nothing……ergo?

      BTW the way, should you decide to respond to this, please try to be relevant… are certainly the loudest frog in this largely ignorant reflecting pond, and you may from time to time provide a little enlightenment… terms of the great optimism of the internet, however you might find “The Net Delusion” an interesting

      “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls………”

      • DaveH

        I notice you took out your equivocating statement about the water vapor being only 4% of the atmosphere this time, Patrick, since the real issue is the proportion of the Greenhouse Gases that is comprised by Carbon Dioxide compared to water vapor.
        And why are you still “Still hunting David H”, when I answered your comment here:

        • DaveH

          Anybody who wants to learn the facts can simply go here:

          • always right

            This is typical of the left. You work on the “prima facie” theories that EPA’s info is reliable (it isn’t. they’re goverment hacks with a political goal, regulating/sabotaging America’s ability to find & use our aenergy freely), that oil is a “fossil fuel” (It isn’t. Oil is a natural product of the earth just like other hydrocarbons. If you believe that hydrocarbons are “fossil fuels” can you explain the methane atmospheres on other planets & their moons?) , and lastly, that anthrophomoric global warming….errr..”climate change” is actually occurring, beyond that which occurs naturally with volcanic activity and solar cycles. Over 31,000 don’t agree with that premise and they have the records to back their belief. So basically, Dave, you’re whole argument just went *POOF!* . nice try though! Welcome to reality.

        • DaveH

          Or here:

          The truth is that the Man-made Global Warming Hoax was always about politics. It was always about enriching the Politicians’ power, pushing the Green Agenda on unwilling consumers, and enriching the Crony Capitalists in the Alternative Energy industries.

          • http://Verizon Bud G.

            Hang in there Dave. Maybe they should read Brennan who is probably the most knowledgeable of all scientists on the matter.

        • patrick H.T. paine

          “T0 conquer, first divide!”

          Well then let me put it back, water vapor is roughly 4 to 5 % of the total atmospere, 4% being near the surface…….or to put it another way……80% of the total amount of water vapor is surface clouds.

          Now apparently you didn’t bother to read what was here……so I’ll seperate it out for you.

          “The greenhouse effect is weak for low altitude clouds, so their albedo effect dominates and they cool the Earth’s climate. ”

          ERGO: 80% of the effect of wator vaper is COOLING!!!!!!!!!

          While the remaining effect of what’s left is undetermined…..although
          heavy cirrus cloud cover is somewhat unusual.

          So you have a PROBLEM!!!!!!!!Especially when you post a link which ignores the PRIMARY EFFECT OF WATER VAPOR! Prima Facie?

          So do you have anything RELEVANT?

          “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls…..

          • DaveH

            Your bell has apparently been rung a few too many times, Patrick, so you may have to turn the volume up on this:

          • DaveH

            Does anybody wonder anymore why the Government is working so hard to control the Internet?

          • patrick H.T. paine

            “To conquer, first divide!”

            With your level of “willfull ignorance”, why would they have to bother?

            26 CFR 31.3402 (p) Voluntary With Holding Agreements

            Meanwhile Ron Paul would like Social Security to be a Voluntary program……which it already is.

            and Bob Livingston wants to help you cure cancer….he hasn’t gotten around to mentioning 714X yet!

            “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls……”

          • DaveH

            Please keep posting, Patrick. You’re priceless.

          • patrick H.T. paine

            “To conquer, first divide!”

            Yo dead frog Dave……thanks for this link.


            It was so impressive it held my attention for about 2 minutes…..that whole bit about temperature, ice, and CO2 and the blatant assertion that the process is somehow wrong or backwards.

            Now don’t get scared BUT I have some QUESTIONS for you…..

            How does the CO2 absorbtion cycle in the oceans work? Where is it absorbed? Where is it released?

            Where is the evidence for CO2 levels located?

            What happens to the polar air mass during the winter months?

            Does the capacity for the ocean to absorb CO2 have a relationship to ocean temperature?

            Do you believe that an increase of CO2 in terms of atmosphere % would be uniform or localised? and where do you think it would most likely occur?

            Do you know what Brownian Motion is?

            Now don’t panic, these are just questions……and any frog can feel free to jump in and help. BTW I will watch the rest of your link, I just need to stop laughing……..too much for today…..

            and Don’t worry I’ll find you……PS you really have to stop that liberal thing……you are so clueless!

            BTW the questions are to assist you in THINKING for YOURSELF…..

            “Do not ask for whom the bells tolls…….”

          • DaveH

            Interesting, Patrick. The one-hour movie held your attention for 2 minutes. Funny how ignorant Liberals give themselves away so easily. How long did it take you to look up those buzz phrases? Do you think anybody here is going to be impressed with that? Especially coming from a guy who admits to not looking at my links and watches only 2 minutes of a one-hour documentary which evidence goes contrary to what he wants to believe? Your mind is closed like a steel trap. But that’s all right because I have no delusions of waking you up, and never have. I post those links for people who don’t worship at the altar of the Global Warming religion.
            And you have irrevocably established yourself as an Ignorant Liberal with that comment about Social Security being “voluntary”.

          • DaveH

            Brownian Motion? Patrick, if you’re going to ask questions to expose somebody’s lack of knowledge, you need to ask something that’s not easily looked up on the Internet. What an Ignoramus.
            Now I have a couple for you.
            What is the primary evidence for the Global Warming predictions?
            And do increased CO2 levels precede warming periods or follow them in actual historical evidence?

          • DanB

            What is that famous quote? Something about truth depending greatly on our point of view. Or something like that.

            Ah the sweet irony of the global warming debate.

            Because CO2 is a byproduct of our very living, potentially harmful in large quantities to animal life (of which we are), we see it as a pollutant and harmful.

            However, remember that many truths depend greatly on our point of view.

            If plants could talk, they would tell you about the many wonders of CO2, how they live and breathe the stuff. How it is essential for their lives.

            So all this debate on global warming, maybe you should plant some more vegetation? Never mind that there has been ice ages before, and probably will be again. How does an ice age go away? Because the earth stayed the same, got colder, or got warmer?

            Does man pollute the earth? Yes. Is it harmful? Yes. Should we be more responsible in how we use our resources? Yes. There is a lot we can agree on, but as has been shown by others, men seem to be blindly following global warming without questioning whether the science is really sound. Did you know that we’ve in the past implemented some “solutions” to other “global” problems only to find that either the problem was a natural cycle and/or our solution caused more damage than it solved. Perhaps if man-caused global warming is true, perhaps it is important enough to take some time and get the answer right instead of rushing into government sponsored solutions. Because if history is any clue, most government sponsored solutions are far more destructive than they are cures and the only thing government solutions are actually guaranteed to do is to remove your liberties one by one….

        • vicki

          The problem with Patrick is that he appears to have insufficent knoledge of science or of language. I am not sure which. Water vapor != clouds.

          Water vapor is a colorless odorless gas

          If you see it then it is water and not water vapor. Now as to clouds. One of the marvelous inventions of this world (be it chance or intelligent design makes no real difference to the marvel of it) is the sequence where increased temp at the surface causes water to evaporate. In doing so water takes up some of the heat and cools the surface a bit. In the higher cooler parts of the atmosphere the water changes from its gas to its liquid state forming clouds. Those clouds reflect some of the warming sunlight. IF the earth gets too warm then more water moves into the air cooling the surface and forms more clouds reducing the amount of heat gained from the sun.

          Global climate change is what humans see as this cycle. Humans have little or no impact on this cycle and it is quite efficient at adjusting for changes in the output of the sun (till it goes nova). Typical of human hubris to think they could break this system with a bit of another gas which also plays an interesting role in moderating the velocity of the swing as the water/water-vapor system adjusts to changes in solar output.

          • patrick H.T. paine

            “To conquer, first divide.”

            I see….so the water vapor that we are referring to is not clouds…
            clouds are not water vapor….but floating water?

            Well as fascinating as that is……how does that help you with climate change or global warming? Seems you just made things worse.

            Too bad David H. didn’t manage to spot this easy out…..of course it really doesn’t help, does it?

            Also it doesn’t change the effect of CO2, that insignificant gas that if it reaches 600 parts per million, ends life on earth. See Asimov’s
            guide to Science, 1968 BEFORE this problem was even considered.

            And as far as warming is concerned, all the evidence you would need is
            average ocean temp….hint: it is NOT decreasing!

            “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls……..”

          • DaveH

            You remind me of a punch-drunk boxer who just doesn’t have enough sense to stay down.

          • patrick H.T. paine

            “To conquer, first divide!”

            Wow another direct flailing irrelevancy.

            So you are an atheist because?

            Bet it turns out you’re just half an agnostic?

            Feel free to begin to attempt an intelligent discussion at any time,
            because despite the frogs, you are not doing well……..

            “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls………”

          • vicki

            patrick H.T. paine says:
            “I see….so the water vapor that we are referring to is not clouds…
            clouds are not water vapor….but floating water?”

            Correct. Water in liquid form or solid crystal form (Cirrus clouds are crystals of ice.

            Well as fascinating as that is……how does that help you with climate change or global warming? Seems you just made things worse.

            Since water vapor was water vapor before you confused clouds with water vapor it is highly unlikely that I just made things worse. Water vapor and SOME clouds (cirrus) act as green house gasses. They did before man and they continue to do so to this day.

            Too bad David H. didn’t manage to spot this easy out…..of course it really doesn’t help, does it?

          • vicki

            Patrick writes:
            ‘Too bad David H. didn’t manage to spot this easy out…..of course it really doesn’t help, does it?’

            Sorry about that. previous message got sent too soon.

            Maybe Dave H did spot this error in your understanding of science but did not realize that you really did NOT know that water vapor != clouds.

          • vicki

            Patrick. You really should watch the movie in this link ( as it explains a lot about why actual science is not falling for the debunked AGW political theory. (AGW=Anthropomorphic global warming. I.E. Man caused)

          • vicki

            Oh and about that debunking thing. seems that what was ~9000 scientists who wanted to debunk global warming is now a bit larger ~30,000. Now why won’t Al Gore et all debate? If AGW is true then Al has nothing to fear.


        • patrick H.T. paine

          “To conquer, first divide!”

          Just to refresh your memory here is your original response…..

          DaveH says:

          August 25, 2011 at 9:20 pm

          Typical Liberal equivocation. gee Dave do you recognise that fallacy.

          Yes, water vapor constitutes from 1% to 5% of the atmosphere at any given time.

          which is clouds or not clouds, and if not clouds, then I guess the
          percentage would be wrong? If it is clouds, then I am still waiting for a relevant response to the NASA Scientist whose information states that low clouds has a cooling effect, and that would be 80% of
          the water vapor! The rest is indeterminate for either effect….now
          did you have a problem comprehending what has been said? Do YOU have
          an intelligent response…..?

          But you forgot to add that Carbon Dioxide only constitutes .04% of the atmosphere. Just a slight omission.

          Actually the percentage would be .004 not .04, or 400 ppmv and stating that if this level reaches 600 ppm results in a runaway greenhouse effect, I avoid nothing….see previvious sources listed.

          Water vapor accounts for about 95% of the Greenhouse Gases.

          well it would, if the cumulative effect were a warming one, but
          AL BEDO negates the green house effect, and produces net COOLING!
          Does this need to be stated in a language you actually understand?
          Repeating the original error, is not argument or a relevant response to he information posted.

          Need I go any further?

          Pretty stupid question, don’t you think? Do you think? Can you think?

          Liberals, you can’t live with them, you can’t live with them:

          repeating the same fallacy in closing and of course the link with
          the info that neglects the AL BEDO effect of water vapor? So I am still waiting for a relevant response, but I am happy to see all those frogs are with you…….if the html doesn’t take, the little b’s should help you figure out who said what?

          “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls…….”

          • DaveH

            I posted a very relevant response, Patrick, but you choose not to open my links. If you would watch the video, you would see that you are just plain ignorant.
            The runaway effect does not occur, ignoramus, because the Global Warming Science is NOT Science. That was my point. I guess I should have explained it to you more thoroughly, but when I spot an ignorant poster, I don’t always feel compelled to talk baby-talk so they can understand me. Get it?

          • DaveH

            Here is one source for my stated .04% concentration of CO2, ignoramus:

            Where’s yours?

          • DaveH

            How do you expect me to debate a guy who doesn’t even know the theory behind Global Warming, Patrick? Here’s a starter course:

          • DaveH
        • GregS

          DaveH, your responses are spot on! I always enjoy reading your comments. Keep up the good work! Patrick H.T. paine’s comments are the epitome of what this PLD article is all about: Prima facie.

      • DaveH
      • DaveH

        In the 1970s, the Greens were trying to alarm the people about Global Cooling but, alas, nature did not cooperate. So, they switched to the Man-Made Global Warming Hoax to push their Alternative Energy schemes on an unwilling populace.
        Fortunately the majority of US citizens have awakened to the Hoax:

      • DaveH

        And, Patrick, why all the personal insults? To wit:
        “the loudest dead FROG”
        “Frogs have short attention spans”
        “reading comprehension does tend to suffer”
        “I would have thought that you would have a better grasp of logical argument and an understanding of logical fallacies”

        Do you think that kind of manipulation works on the intelligent readers of Personal Liberty? That kind of adolescent manipulation may work at Huffpo or DailyKos, but it won’t work here. All you are doing here is showing the intelligent readers at Personal Liberty what Liberals are really made of.
        But please, Patrick, keep posting. You and your fellow Liberal posters are showing the readers what Liberals are made of better than all the years that I spent trying to enlighten acquaintances about your kind.

        • Raggs

          I agree!! This guy is a real JERK… I hate people that use lies in order to scare people into submission!!!!

          • patrick H.T. paine

            “To conquer, first divide!”

            The source is duly noted…..there has been no dispute from David H.
            Except that I am a liberal, and I am not interested in his polls…or
            links…….so you can blame NASA or Issac Asimov…..sorry, but they have more credibility than croaking frogs…..

            “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls………”

          • DaveH

            Keep digging, Patrick. You’re already in over your head.
            Of course you won’t read my links. How can you remain ignorant if you do?

          • Marty S.

            He sounds like he’s been smoking a more whackier type of tobacco or inhaling some other planet’s gases.

        • JeffH

          DaveH, what’s up with all the DaveH haters recently? Over the weekend it was the ignorant Personal Rights(‘s?) and this guy Patrick has been at it for a week now.

          Do you think it might be “vigilant” striking back?
          Oh well, you must be doing something right or they wouldn’t come out of the woodwork and go after you.

          • DaveH

            That’s the way I see it, Jeff.

        • patrick H.T. paine

          “To conquer, first divide!”

          Yup the true power of the internet is CLEAR, democracy at work, and so clearly intelligent, it can’t answer a simple direct question…..
          not a whole lot for me to be worried about……

          The relevant link has been refuted…..when you have a relevant response please let me know?

          and feel free to attempt a relevant response to anything? or come close to trying? the naked croaking dead frog, the brain is so small
          the news of it’s death will be some time in coming?

          You do understand you have been asked QUESTIONS, one in particular?

          Even an attempt at at answer would be IMPRESSIVE?

          or did that god musta done it support from above make it for you?

          “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls…….?”

          • DaveH

            Seek help, Patrick.

          • SC Murf

            patrick you are a paine alright. Now I don’t do a lot of posting here but enough to know that DaveH backs up everything with facts and I would say that most on this site really enjoy his posts. As far as he being an atheist well lets just say that we are not done talking to him yet. Now would you do all of us a big favor and make that popping sound. Please

            up the hill

      • Old Henry

        Follow the money patrickH. Follow the money.

        • patrick H.T. paine

          “To conquer, first divide!”

          Not real sure I get your point? Did you mean the money involved in the hoax, that will encourage everyone to convert to power systems
          which are most efficiently utilised at the individual home level,
          like sort of a trick to make everyone energy independant, that money?

          “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls………”

        • AustinAndy

          When did Social Security become voluntary? I don’t recall my employer asking if I wanted to opt out of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid taxes on my payroll. On the other hand, nobody said that I had to take the payouts from Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid after I retired. It is just that having paid in to the program, I am entitled to certain payments from the government based on the taxes I paid in the past. Of course, this begs the question: Will there be enough money in the federal budget to pay all the benefits promised me by the politicians? My personal estimate is that I will be lucky to get half of what is promised, and I am on the cusp of retirement. For those who will be behind me for a generation, I doubt that they will get more than a third.

          It matters not what I am entitled to if the federal government does not have the assets to pay those entitlements. And all the fixes will reduce my entitlement such as raising the retirement age further, increasing the taxes on the workers as well as the retirees, and reducing the payout be changing the inflation formula downward or decreasing the payment by freezing the payouts (no inflation factor), or just changing the required time to earn the entitlement upward by another ten years. Increased borrowing to pay off the unfunded obligations is increasingly harder due to the increased federal debt and deficit, nor is confiscation of the worker’s wages a solution.

          Did your employer make those payroll taxes voluntary?

          • GregS

            VERY well stated, AustinAndy! I was asking those same questions in my head, as I was reading his post. Patrick H.T. paine has definitely got a few screws loose if he thinks that Social Security is voluntary.

      • Raggs

        pat.. are you freakin kidding me??? global warming / climate change?

        You can fool some of the people with that BS but NOT anyone that has half a brain!!! global warming is a mythical idea concocked from the demoncratic party in order for the government to take complete control of the world via fear tatics and threats… Scientist are complete FOOLS to believe any part of this made-up lie…

        • Average Joe

          Raggs says:

          “You can fool some of the people with that BS but NOT anyone that has half a brain!!!”

          Speaking of which, I posted a couple of tests below to determine how we think and why we think the way we do ( It deals with left brain vs. right brain thought processes). I would like everyone here to take the tests and post your results. In advavance, Thanks to all who play along.

        • Kate8

          Raggs – Actually, it goes way beyond the democrat party. It was concocted by those same global ruling elite who cause governments to rise and topple, instigate wars everywhere, and use all manner of false-flag machinations to manipulate the minds and lives of the people.

          The purpose is to institute ever more control measures on countries and private persons, and bring us all under an inescapable control grid, all under central world government.

          The democrat party is nothing but a NWO tool. But then, so is the republican party, which became heavily infiltrated and sold out to the NWO long ago.

          Feeling cornered yet?

          • Marty S.

            I feel like Neo in Matrix-what the hell happened while I was asleep?

      • jibbs

        Could you please provide a link to this information(if thats not asking too much) I’ve read an awful about weather and aviation weather and would like to see a link please(foot note).

      • jibbs

        On the other hand, when you are done fabricating those foot notes, stuff’em where the sun don’t shine!
        If I have to explain, you won’t understand!

      • BrotherPatriot

        To quote myself about Patrick H.T. Paine’s comment…”Gobbly-Gook”.


        Nice to see/read you again DaveH &JeffH.

        • JeffH

          Brother Patriot, back at ya’! :)

      • coal miner

        patrick H.T. paine

        With Copenhagen on the horizon, is it time to check over the physics and chemistry behind the climate change debate? SciScoop has spoken to several scientists …

        • coal miner

          patrick H.T. paine

          What do you think?

          Water Vapor . Increasing atmospheric CO2 does not by itself result in significant warming. The climate models assume a significant positive feedback of increased …

          • patrick H.T. paine

            “To conquer, first divide?”

            Is that the water vapor in clouds, or the magical kind?

            Are the ocean’s getting warmer?

            Are the polar icecaps, glaciers, and mountain ice increasing or decreasing?

            Do you know what a runaway green house effect is, it’s relationship to
            CO2 ( the only gas that is relevant to it ) or a reducing atmosphere?

            BTW these are questions……do yOU know the answers?

            “Do not ask for whom the bell tolls………”

          • DaveH

            The answers were in the movie that you only watched 2 minutes of, Patrick. It’s called the sun.
            You are one sick puppy, Patrick. Seek help.

      • http://peronalliberty Kevin

        patrickhtpaininmy–: that bunh of hot air, bull, and just pain oll lies are well undeciverable………..

      • DaveH

        If there’s one thing we can take away from the Global Warming Hoax, it is this — Politicians can not be trusted. I hope we remember that for a long, long time.

        • Jay

          Dave, I got this article in my e:mail yesterday. I think this might explain the origin and reason for the personal attacks that all of us receive who don’t follow the obama party-line. An eye opener!

          • DaveH

            That doesn’t surprise me a bit, Jay.

      • hicusdicus

        Holey crap! Does anyone really care? And I thought I was bored.

    • Dan az

      No one has been able to explain to me why young men and women serve in the U.S. Military for 20 years, risking their lives protecting freedom, and only get 50% of their pay. WhilePoliticians hold their political positions in the safe confines of the capital, protected by these same men and women, and receive full pay retirement after serving one term. It just does not make any sense.
      Monday on Fox news they learned that the staffers of Congress family members are exempt from having to pay back student loans. This will get national attention if other news networks will broadcast it. When you add this to the below, just where will all of it stop?

      35 States file lawsuit against the Federal Government

      Governors of 35 states have filed suit against the Federal Government for imposing unlawful burdens upon them. It only takes 38 (of the 50) States to convene a Constitutional Convention.

      This will take less than thirty seconds to read. If you agree, please pass it on.

      This is an idea that we should address.

      For too long we have been too complacent about the workings of Congress. Many citizens had no idea that members of Congress could retire with the same pay after only one term, that they specifically exempted themselves from many of the laws they have passed (such as being exempt from any fear of prosecution for sexual harassment) while ordinary citizens must live under those laws. The latest is to exempt themselves from the Healthcare Reform… in all of its forms. Somehow, that doesn’t seem logical. We do not have an elite that is above the law. I truly don’t care if they are Democrat, Republican, Independent or whatever. The self-serving must stop.

      • hicusdicus

        After what you have just said I will always be your friend.

    • George

      You forgot part of your #4:
      “Talk is cheap, but it takes money to buy whiskey.”

  • NancyJ

    My personal big shock of the week was when I read that the unemployment rate was figured by using the “new” method.

    That, if using the “old” method, it is actually over 16 per cent not just under 9 per cent.

    Put that together with the fact that about twenty per cent of the people are paying the taxes that support this country, you have to wonder…


    • wandamurline

      It is called “cooking the books” and the Demorats have been doing that for years…just look back at Clinton’s supposed surplus that he had when his term was over….yeah, my books would look pretty darn good if I did not have to figure in what my liabilities were. None of his liabilities (what America owed others( was figured into the budget reports. These people, both Demorats and RINOS, have been sticking it to us since Woodrow Wilson allowed the Federal Reserve to be implemented. In 2012, we can put constitutional conservatives in Congress and flush the cesspool that is overflowing in Washington. Vote in 2012 like your life depends on it, because it does.

      • bob wire

        yea! and “W” had two sets !

        • Greg T

          Obviously both sides of the aisle cook the books and support the Fed.

          The Dems just have a better PR campaign (ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN).

          Republicans don’t know how to fight the rhetoric mainly because so many Rhino’s or Blue Bloods control the machinery and believe in “Big Government” too. To them it is who controls it, not if it should be. Remember it was Nixon (R) who implemented and used price controls. Bush who suspended free market principles to save the free market (so much for believing in creative destruction and the free market).

          D & R are the parties of big gov, big biz and da Banks…pet projects please. And don’t fool yourself, many Republicans don’t mind federal dollars paying for their big projects either. Restraint in our society is a hard sell across the board.

          • Kate8

            Greg T – While many of us have awakened to the fat that Ds and Rs are but two sides of the same evil, I am astounded by the numbers of those on the Left who still believe that the Ds represent the “little people” and the Rs “the wealthy”, or corporate interests.

            This is a perfect demonstration of the point of this (wonderful) article, since the evidence is quite the contrary. Where they may appear to address the interests of the “poor”, they simply use this ruse to further erode our liberties and, worst of all, our humanity. And, of course, to buy votes, assuring them the power to do these things.

            People voted for Obama because they saw him as “one of them”. Yet, this couldn’t be further from the truth, in so many ways. He has become obscenely wealthy since usurping our WH, and adds insult to injury by spending multi-millions (at least) of our tax dollars on his (and Michelle’s) frivolities, while the rest of America is languishing. He is NOT one of us in ANY sense of the word. He holds America in nothing short of utter contempt.

            Then we have Pelosi, who has accrued 20some million as of the last election, Kerry, Feinstein, and the rest of the D pack who are every bit, if not more, involved in corporate partnering, robbing the taxpayers while cheating on their own taxes, and are the elite of the elite…and all the while their voting base still believes that they “care”.

            A perfect example of how people do not think their own thoughts.

          • DaveH

            Here is more evidence of the Crony Capitalist machine that surrounds the Obama administration. Both Democrats and Republicans have their own favorite Crony Capitalists, but I think the Democrat voters are mostly oblivious to the fact that Democrat Leaders have them:

          • DaveH

            And then of course there’s GE, and who knows how many other Alternative Energy companies that benefit from the EPA’s new rules:

          • Greg T

            Thanks Dave and Kate.

            I get more info from posts than the articles.

            Thank God for the internet and so far, free exchange of ideas.

          • JeffH

            Kate8, a keen perception and very well said…spot on.

            DaveH, keep doing what you do…it’s most appreciated by many of us.

          • Altaica

            If their “pet project” isn’t serving the American people and the constitution then they need to be booted out.

            I’d like to see Obama have to pay for all these frivolities. I think he should have to pay back every cent that wasn’t directly part of his job. Vacations are not part of his job and neither is whatever other non-sense he has spent our money on. It would be nice it my job not only gave me paid time off but paid every expense of my vacation. His vacations cost more than the avg American makes in a lifetime. Far as I am concerned he doesn’t even deserve a vacation, he hasn’t done his job. He should be fired. And also, when you have paid time from a company it doesn’t pay for your whole family, yet his whole family is getting paid in vacations and other luxuries many of us can only dream of.

            I’m still looking for how we can reset our government and wipe the corrupt “leaders” out of it and get back to basics. Ron Paul looks pretty good to me. The best out of the choices I’ve seen so far.

          • Kate8

            Michelle’s latest vacation (which she tried to keep secret from us – to Africa, I think…???) ran up a tab of $10,000,000 (that’s ten million), all charged to us, who are barely holding it together.

            When did the First Lady (gag) become entitled to run up huge tabs jaunting around the world on extravagant vacations, taking all of her friends with her?

            I want someone to catch her saying, “Let them eat cake”. Which, BTW, Marie Antoinette never said. That was false information fed to the French (by none other than those same ruling elite) to incite them to war against the monarchy. Much like events such as 9/ll and various other “attacks”.

            If it works, why change it.

          • Dan az

            Trillions of dollars have been stolen from U.S. taxpayers.

            You and I, right now, are seeing the worst plundering of a country’s wealth in the history of civilization, led by an out-of-control Federal Reserve.

            But you and I together CAN put a stop to it all.

            With your help (including completing the petition to your representative and senators) today, Campaign for Liberty is ready to take the battle straight to the heart of the problem – the Federal Reserve itself.

            Last year, C4L came close to enacting a full Audit of the Fed. This year, with more Fed opponents put in office and the economy still reeling, we have our best chance ever.

            But you must act today.

            Just think about the scope of the problem for a minute.

            The massive, outrageous amount of dollars committed to the economic bailouts recently totals:

            More than the socialist New Deal… More than the entire Iraq debacle… More than the 1980′s savings and loan mess… More than the Korean War…


            Where will it all end?

            It’s time you and I put a stop to an out-of-control Federal Reserve. And Ron Paul has a bill in the House of Representatives to do just that.

            His son, Senator Rand Paul from Kentucky, has introduced companion legislation in the Senate.

            That’s why it’s vital you complete your personal “Audit the Fed” petition in support of this landmark bill.

            Click here to sign the petition

            Audit the Fed will finally pull the lid off the FED and expose its out-of-control power grabs.

            Now is the time to make sure your representative and senators feel the heat to support the Audit the Fed bill!

            If you and I don’t act today, I’m afraid this crisis will end with the economic ruin of every man, woman, and child in the United States.

            Today, nearly 14 TRILLION in taxpayer dollars in bailouts and loans have been agreed to by Congress, the Bush and Obama Treasury Departments, and the out-of-control Fed.

            So is it really any wonder more and more folks are starting to realize the Washington, D.C. establishment is hurtling us toward complete economic disaster?

            Whether it’s watching a phony “stimulus” package get rammed into law or seeing Congress pass a $700 BILLION bank “bailout,” the American people are agitated and increasingly angry.

            You saw the result of that anger in the Tea Parties last year and then in the November elections.

            Statist, pro-Fed politicians were tossed out of office left and right!

            That means it’s a perfect time to unleash the pressure of MILLIONS of outraged Americans on the out-of-control Fed today!

            So please agree to complete the petition urging your representative and senators to cosponsor and seek roll call votes on Ron Paul’s Audit the Fed bill – the first step toward ENDING THE FEDERAL RESERVE once and for all!

            As I know you’re aware, the Federal Reserve is shrouded in secrecy.

            Its meetings are off-limits to the public. Its inner-workings are off-limits to the public.

            Fed leaders know coming clean with Congress and the American people on how they create money out of thin air would result in an anti-Fed firestorm.

            So can you imagine the impact of a full-scale audit?

            Click here to sign the petition

            You and I will finally be able to show the American people that the Federal Reserve System leads to:

            *** Constant economic crises – the housing crisis and the resulting chaos is just one example of an economic bubble created by centrally-planned interest rates and money manipulation;

            *** The destruction of the middle class – as fuel, food, housing, medical care, and education costs soar, everyone who is NOT on the government dole is forced to make do with less as the value of their money slowly decreases;

            *** Currency destruction – history shows us that riots, violence, and full-scale police states can result when people finally realize fiat money isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on and REFUSE to accept it.
            And unless you and I do end the madness in Washington, D.C., we may be closer than we’d like to think to learning that history lesson firsthand, right here on the streets of our towns and cities.

            That’s why your commitment to helping pass the Audit the Fed bill – and helping Campaign for Liberty fight this battle – is so vital.

            Click here to sign the petition

            Just a few years ago, there was no chance of passing any legislation like Ron Paul’s Audit the Fed bill.

            So I guess there has been one “CHANGE.”

            You see, with the piling up of trillions of dollars in out-of-control “bailouts” of Wall Street and international bankers, even many politicians in Washington, D.C. want to show you they’re “being responsible.”

            What better way for Congress to do this than by auditing the Federal Reserve to account for the trillions stolen from U.S. taxpayers?

            More and more congressmen are already feeling the pressure and are signing up to support this bill.

            I’ve even received word Audit the Fed could move soon in the U.S. House.

            When that happens, you and I must be ready to fight.

            There will be many battles you and I must wage over the coming months to take back our country. But this one is set to rage in Congress soon.

            And, it’s both a bill we CAN pass and one that is vital to exposing the massive corruption and downright evil of the actions of the Federal Reserve and their Wall Street masters.

            You see, after regulating, taxing, spending, borrowing, and printing us into what looks like the worst recession in decades, establishment politicians and power brokers are assuring us they’re working hard to “fix” our economic woes.

            What is their solution? You guessed it. More of the same!

            I’m convinced that if you and others will insist on Congress passing Audit the Fed, the votes will be there.

            Then the question is whether Barack Obama will sign it.

            But here’s the thing: even if Ron Paul’s Audit the Fed bill is vetoed by Obama, just forcing him to do it is a win/win situation.

            Can you imagine how it will look in the 2012 election when you and I tell the American people President Obama refused to even LOOK for the trillions of dollars stolen from the taxpayers?

            Click here to sign the petition

            Now, we just need to show Congress the American people demand action on Audit the Fed. Here’s how Campaign for Liberty plans to do that.

            First, C4L is already busy contacting up to five million activists nationwide through mail, phones, and email to generate petitions to the U.S. Congress demanding action on Audit the Fed.

            But that’s just the beginning.

            C4L will work the talk radio stations and grant local media interviews to further turn up the pressure on Congress.

            And a few days before the vote, if they have the resources, they’d also like to run hard-hitting targeted radio, TV, and newspaper ads.

            This entire program is designed to send this one, CLEAR message to Congress – Any politician who votes against the Federal Reserve Audit should look for another job.

            But such a massive effort won’t be easy – or cheap.

            So, in addition to your signed petitions, I also hope you’ll agree to chip in a contribution of $10, $25, $50 – or whatever you can afford – to Campaign for Liberty.

            I know times are hard, but if we don’t take action, the America we see in just a few years could look far worse than anything we’ve seen yet.

            Can I count on you to join the fight to AUDIT THE FED by filling out your petitions and by chipping in a contribution of $10, $25, $50 – or whatever you can afford – to Campaign for Liberty?

            In Liberty,

            Senator Mike Lee Utah

          • JeffH

            Brother Dan…see you’re on the Mike Lee email list too! :)

            Here’s the link to read & sign the Ron Paul petition to “Audit the Fed”.


          • AustinAndy

            We are more likely to hear the First Lady tell us to eat tofu than cake. It’s all about the fatty food with her.

            I almost gag when I think of replacing meat with tasteless tofu.

          • Kate8

            Andy – Don’t touch the tofu.

            Nearly all soy is GMO now. As is corn. They are universally contaminated.

        • Jyrine

          No telling how many O has.

          • bob wire

            Just one, and why it’s not a pretty sight. This truth”” should offer some explanation to today sorry state of affairs but I’m thinking that you’ll be most willing to overlook it as it fails to serve your purpose while it flies in the face of all reason.

            Did you know that the current administration is poised to review 300,000 visa in the coming 12 months? Hardly news worthy I suppose. ~

            The media and the viewer picks and chooses what’s news worthy by what supports their views and bias. ~ Happenings that “fails” to support bias are ignored and not considered newsworthy. All news media does this as pander to bias and people “feeling” as they sale soap, auto insurance and erectile dysfunctional medication. If you don’t use any of these products, perhaps you are a benefactor?

            Fox, enjoys hitting the “Hot Button” for people that perceive themselves as upstanding Christians ( a class better then the rest) . Fox panders to this bias and it accounts for their following a popularity.

            MSN, enjoys hitting the “greedy GOP button” and fails to promote religion in any overt manner.

            They both sell the same products, the bait is the only difference.

    • Thomas Kersten

      No need to wonder, Washington is and has been out of their mind for an extremely long peroid of time.
      If a politician is not a crook and thier prior to going to Washington, he or she soon will be!
      I am of the mind that we need SMALLER GOVERNMENT and more local control over our states!

    • LindyMaeUSA

      Nancy dear, you asked: “IS GOVERNMENT OUT OF ITS MIND?” Well, returning to Bob’s very informative article, I was struck with the reality of one specific paragraph where he wrote: “Finally, a small number of people get through enough layers of information that they come to the shocking conclusion that government IS ORGANIZED CRIME and it is every man for himself!”

      So obviously, government is NOT “out of its mind!” It’s methodical, insidious and lethal PLAN to “culturally and ECONOMICALLY destroy our Country and subjugate the Majority (plus the few of us who have and are seeing beyond the “Prima Facie”) continues relentlessly, day-by-day, brick-by-brick! May our great and the only TRUE GOD of this universe help us!!!

    • GINGER


  • David in MA

    Does your city or town floride your drinking water?
    Search floride and see what Hitler did with it.
    Extreamly interesting.

    • jibbs

      Why don’t you just paste a link in your post?

      • Kate8

        jibbs – This is correct informantion, and there is a lot of info on the subject. Just do a search.

        BTW, fluoride is in everything now. It’s nearly impossible to avoid.

    • Angelia

      If you believe as I do regarding sodium fluoride it should have been banned years ago. Last year the EPA had to drop the “dosage” because children were getting pitted teeth. We understand why the Germans used it but did you know that the majority of “anti depression” use sodium fluoride as the main ingredient in their drugs?

      Here is something just as dangerous to all of us in our food supply. Google Codex Alamentarius or go to There is also a series of five Youtube videos that will scare the pants off you. There will be a vote coming up in congress soon so now is the time to educate yourself and call your congress representative. They are turning our food into poison.

      • Kate8

        Angelia – They are turning our food into poison, along with our water, our air and our education system. And not just using fluoride, but all manner of toxins, including GMO farming.

        Fluoride crosses the blood-brain barrier, and carries other toxins with it, as well. It’s all part of the dumbing down process, and the effects of fluorosis can be horrifying, affecting the neurological system.

        We can scream at our Congressweasels ’til the cows come home, but they aren’t listening to us. They’re taking orders from Codus Aliamentarius (passing it into law) for the very purpose of depopulation.

        I’m sure you are aware of this, but for those who aren’t…

    • hicusdicus

      Fluoride, aspirin, calcium pills, processed food, getting born its all bad for you but not near as bad as believing what you read on the internet.

  • Pedro A Delgado

    How sad and how true.

    Government schools have made a fantastic job in eliminating discernment among most people in the Country.

    Then, compromised Media and degenerated Hollywood have done the rest.

    End result is a Country that is not even the shadow of what used to be.

  • AJ

    President Andrew Jackson said: “If the American people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system, there would be a revolution before morning.”

    “Presidents Lincoln, Jackson and Kennedy tried to stop this family of bankers by printing U.S. dollars without charging the taxpayers interest…” (Quotes from “Bulletin” Feb. 1989 and 1991 issues, P.O. Box 986, Ft. Collins, Colo. 80522).

    This family of bankers made many attempts to assassinate President Jackson but were unsuccessful. However Lincoln and JFK weren’t as fortunate as Jackson. As Bob says inquiring beneath the first layer, or prima facie, brings us closer to reality and truth. The more layers peeled back and the more inquiry we make, the closer we come to reality. And if enough layers are pulled back from there the stench of those family of bankers (NWO) are revealed.

    • newspooner

      Don’t fool yourself. Kennedy was part of the same “family” — a loosely organized group of power seekers who believed that they were entitled to be leaders. Lincoln was probably controlled by the same people, and eventually became a much bigger part of the problem than most people realize. Jackson was more independent, but he had some major flaws, too. It is unrealistic for people to think that more than a very few other Presidents even come close to approaching the degree of integrity and patriotism that Jefferson, Coolidge, Tyler, and Washington did.

      • Kate8

        Newsooner – No doubt, but something they were doing was perceived by the PTB as a threat, or else they wouldn’t have been assassinated.

  • Warrior

    For those that have terrible vision, try the smell test, it works just as well and by-God does this gubmint stink.

  • Capitalist at Birth

    We have our own well water system (subdivision with 88 homes)that we are required to add chlorine to, in order to kill bacteria. No fluoride thank god. I quit using toothpaste with fluoride ten years ago.

    • jibbs

      Same here, we have our own private well, and also have not used toothpaste with fluoride for years.

      • Kate8

        Here’s another example of how we don’t question things.

        American false-flags…A modern primer:

        • jibbs

          Thanks for the link Kate8, when I read them all at the same time, it made my jaw drop, hair caught on fire and just left me wondering if the thing has been, one big well played out hoax! I’ve known it for years, but…….WTF!!!!

        • Capitalist at Birth

          Although, some of the information was factual, most of it is sheer speculation.

          • Kate8

            Capitalist – So says…you?

            Where there’s smoke there’s fire. It doesn’t take much to put 2 + 2 together, unless, of course, you buy the group-think.

        • http://peronalliberty Kevin

          If any more than 1% of this is true, we are screwed, God help us, He might not anything more to do with us! I can only pray for my family and myself if this is true! Oh My God! hell must be bigger than the universe to put all the sinners involved with all that crap! I can believe the stuff about Global warming being B.S. but 911? come on! for Clinton, W. and obumer to agree an anything is hard for anyone with a lick of sence to believe could even remotely happen!

          • Kate8

            Kevin – Don’t you get it yet? Clinton, Bush, Obama…all of them…they are just sock-puppets! They don’t make these decisions, and they don’t have opinion…they are there to direct the masses into going along with the plans of the PTB, who are unseen, ruling elite who have no country nor national loyalties. They CONTROL governments.

            The visible “government” in DC has no real power. They work for (and are funded by) the corporate ruling elite, and exist to do their bidding.

            They now control the strings for everything we need to live: food, water, oil, all necessities and information. And, of course, all of the money. We are held in virtual slavery to them.

            The only real way to topple them is to break free…owe them nothing, and exist only on what you can raise, create or barter. PURCHASE NOTHING FROM A COMMERCIAL SOURCE. And this means DO NOT USE THE MEDICAL SYSTEM, either. This is one of their main seats of control.

            This beast must be literally starved to death. Do we want it enough to sacrifice our way of life and get back to basics?

            We’ll see, because it will happen one way or another. We either choose it or it will be imposed on us.

        • Christin


          Wow… again, you shock me with info.
          Just took a look at the site ‘Global Governance’ that you posted above. Hope more people take a look at the False Flags that start conflicts and why…

          I kind of find it insulting that We the People are labeled ‘lame, dumb, brainwashed’ for believing the leaders that run our country… I mean, we should be able to take people at face value and NOT suspect they are being deceitful and have to check out their every move and word thinking they are evil, corrupt, and harming Americans, ya know?

          We know they are now and it is a real shame that so many have sold their souls by selling us out to the Evil Elites.

          Thanks for sharing this info.

          • Kate8

            Christin – We certainly shouldn’t be faulted for wanting to see the best in people, and for wanting to take our leaders at their word. We’ve been lulled into complacence, by intricate design and careful implementation, employing the best minds to study us and come up with effective means of mass hypnosis and controlling our thinking. We’ve been treated as lab rats, falling into the trap that was laid for us.

            Where we can take the blame is for allowing ourselves to forget who we are in our pursuits of the good life, accepting moral corruption in exchange for toys and false prestige.

            While we were taking the bait, our government was quietly working to undermine our very foundations. Only when we felt the effects of a crumbling economy did we notice the decay of all that is around us, including (and especially) our humanity.

  • Steve

    The Federal Reserve is creating money, out of thin air, at the U.S Treasury’s printing presses. It then lends these newly created dollars to the nation’s banks at 0% interest. The banks then use this free monopoly money to buy U.S. Treasury Bonds. The Treasury pays the banks interest on these bonds which were purchased with the free, fiat money. The U.S. taxpayers foot the bill for the interest on these bonds.

    Where do the U.S. taxpayers get the money to pay the interest on these bonds? Communist China of course! We just borrow it and pay compounded interest to China. This sends our nation further into debt buy borrowing money; we don’t have, to pay interest to communists, on money that was fabricated out of nothing by the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury. Thus the term – monopoly money!

    This scheme makes Bernie Madoff look like a Girl Scout compared to Federal Reserve Chairman, Ben Bernanke and United States Treasury Secretary, Tim Geithner. You can’t make this stuff up. It is real and it is happening right now: today, yesterday and tomorrow.

    This thievery is nothing less than the embezzlement of the U.S. Treasury. It’s a Ponzi scheme that presently plunders money out of taxpayers’ pockets. It is a pyramid letter, generational theft, robbery of our children and their children’s futures.

    Our Founding Fathers called this pillaging of our country’s treasury by its real name; High Treason! There are other names for it: looting, extortion, larceny, fleecing, racketeering and fraud all come to mind. All of these words are fully descriptive of these hi-tech purse snatchers in their suits and ties. When one does any of the above, to his or her country, it is High Treason.

    High Treason during war, a capital crime, is punishable by hanging. It is the reason Benedict Arnold high-tailed it out of town and country. We are presently involved in three wars. Perhaps the thought of Ben Bernanke or Timothy Geithner dangling at the end of a rope, from a tree in downtown Washington, D.C. is too much for us to handle. So we neglect to look at these men as traitors, but it is indeed what they are. They are undeniably looting our National Treasury, as they fill up their pockets and the pockets of bankers and the Red Chinese, while defrauding the American people and our posterity.

    These modern day, highway robbers are the result of America’s out of control spending. The U.S. is currently $14.7 trillion dollars in national debt and it is growing larger every day. We are borrowing close to $5 billion dollars/a day to pay for the interest on this debt, combined with our erratic over spending. (Google: )

    This amount of borrowing and spending is equivalent to using one credit card, to make your payments on a second credit card, while you continue your irresponsible spending with a third credit card. Anyone who uses credit understands this is an unsustainable position for an individual, or a nation, to be in.

    Soon this house of cards will collapse on us, just as the housing bubble and the dot com markets did. Place a winning bet on it for sure! When our economy does implode, the most important question will be:
    Who will hang for this High Treason?

    • Daniel

      Great Response!

      One point that many seem to miss when talking about printing money; the printed money is just the “pocket change.” The real disgusting amount of fiat money is the electronic money that is created out of thin air every time a new loan is made. When that fictional money is loaned, the Federal Reserve gets a commission for authorizing its creation and then collects interest on that money throughout the period of the loan. Just that amount of money going into the pockets of the private bankers is so huge that other amounts pale by comparison.

      The money that goes back to the bankers from the loan is “real money” because it has to be earned by the person with the loan.

    • Lost in Paradise

      Steve, what is your proposal to solve this problem. You are correct,with your post. However, if voting is you solution, remember, it too is a Ponzi Scheme. It will not get us out of the trouble we are in with a outragiously corrupt and dishonest government.

  • DrillerDoug

    ALL of the current ruling ZOG is CORRUPT and need to be locked up and tried for treason ! ! ! Ron Paul Included. We HAVE a restored Republic. IF he is serious about he says he needs to come OUT of Babylon (ZOG) and join with us All.

  • Carlucci

    Sometimes I feel like Chicken Little – I’ve given up trying to tell people what is happening. Most people believe this economic hot mess America is suffering now is just temporary.

    A friend of mine sent this link to me last night:

    • Al Sieber

      Right on Carlucci, thanks for the link it explains everything. the “rabbit hole” goes pretty deep.

      • Kate8

        Al – Do you have any idea what’s up with Dan az? He hasn’t been around lately.

        BTW, check out this video clip.

        Agenda 21…people in the SoCal desert are being forced to destroy their homes and vacate their land…

        They don’t want people living off the grid. They are doing “home inspections” and forcing people out of remote areas…

        Is this the beginning of things coming soon all over America?

        You decide.

        • Karolyn

          Interesting video, Kate. I posted it on Facebook and wrote a nasty letter to the LA County CEO. I don’t care if it means nothing; I just had to do it.

          When we moved here to rural SC in ’05, the county had just hired their first codes enforcement officer. We missed the cutoff! There are still people under the radar, but I’m sure they eventually will be caught up with. Coming from NJ, where overregulation has been a fact of life for property owners for a long time, it’s still not that bad here.

          • Lost in Paradise

            Have you ever heard of the unified code system that I think they have somehow pushed through? I have been involved with inspection people in Wisconsin and they are like the Gestapo. I went into their office, about 7 years ago or so, and they all had signs on their desks that read “Total Control”. I was so upset, I left, as I knew talking to them was useless. They now have the system in place, so look out.

        • jibbs

          Very scary, what has the United States turned into?

          • Kate8

            jibbs – I think you already know the answer to that.

            Sounds like you are waking up. Welcome to the road to truth.
            It’s a road not many dare tread.

          • Jibbs

            I’ve been awake, it’s just that the crap pile has no bottom.

        • Al Sieber

          Kate, I haven’t seen any posts from Dan in 3 or 4 days, then again I thought he said he was helping some people out. thanks for the link.

    • Kate8

      Carlucci – Amazing article. Again, you’ve hit the ball out of the park. Thank you.

      This was the whole message of Yeshua, wasn’t it? Sacrifice, death and redemption. It just seems that the evil ones distorted His Message to where we’ve missed the whole point.

      “He caused a great delusion to come upon them because of their rebellion…” When we turn our backs on the Laws of our Creator, becoming gods unto ourselves, we will never pierce the veils. This the enemy knows, appealing to our basest instincts, coming in many forms (including religion) and delighting in our gullibility.

      You just made my day with this one.

      Scriptures tell us that the numbers of the Harvest are few.

      • Christin


        Wow, great site, thanks ever so much for sharing… this explains why many are still snoozing. I will send this around.

        Carlucci and Kate8,

        I was wondering… about the nine veils…

        Well, there were somethings I did not know in some of the veils, but when I was told or did some reading or research I believed what they were saying as truth… that there are Globalist Elites of darkness controlling EVERYTHING.

        But, is it possible, do you think to get to veil eight, without going through some of the other veil knowledge by simply BELIEVING in Jesus and following the greatest Commandment(s):

        Mark 12 : 30 and 31 to “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” and “The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’. There is no commandment greater than these.”

        Because I believe you can skip some veils of knowledge (because you haven’t heard it all yet, but will intellectually get it in time) with your heart on fire for the Lord and knowing the Word of God, because I have, but I was at a disadvantage not knowing those pieces of info and I am better prepared now on a consciousness level knowing all the earthly truths presented in the other veils.

    • DaveH

      It is just a fact of life that people are selfish. Almost everything we do is aimed at bettering our own lives. Even when we are altruistic, it is almost always for our own benefit — feeling good about ourselves, hoping to acquire more admiration, etc.
      Only rarely will people actually sacrifice their own well-being for the good of others. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not putting us down. Why shouldn’t we be selfish? After all, when we help other people isn’t that selfish on their part to accept that help at our expense?
      Politicians are just people, so of course we can’t expect them to sacrifice their own self-interests for us. They are, by nature, going to feather their own nests. It is up to we the people to recognize that fact and keep them reigned in. And the best way we can do that is to give them only the power that is necessary to prevent our fellow human beings from forcing their will upon us.
      The Politicians have long ago surpassed that threshold of power. We need to concentrate all of our efforts towards shrinking our Government back to the size that is necessary only to protect us from the force of others. We need to get them out of everything ill that results from voluntary choices on our parts. It is up to us to do our own homework, or hire others to do it for us, so that our choices are made wisely.
      We need to stop voting for Republicans and Democrats, and start voting for the only Political Party that promotes voluntary transactions, property rights, and Governments which obey the same moral rules that the citizens must obey:

      • Kate8

        It’s true that we are, by nature, selfish, and will act in our own self-interest.

        This is built in, no doubt, for survival. The beast (our physical being) is a harsh taskmaster, demanding constant attention to meet its wants and needs, causing us to sacrifice our spiritual connection for the sake of the next conquest.

        As long as our attention dwells solely on the beast, we can’t escape its demands, or its deceptions. We will always be lured into another trap, until we learn that it holds no real answers for us…just another fork in the road that winds around to the same old place.

    • Karolyn

      Very thought-provoking!

    • bob wire

      Thanks for the link Carlucci ,

      impressive read, ~ deep enough I needed a shovel

      All roads lead to Rome, it doesn’t really matter much how you get there as long a each step brings you closer.

      The human mind is truly fascinating, that we can create with thought.

      What I’ve been left to think over the years after all the different studies that I have “dabbled in”, is that life is “pure awareness”. It has little mass and occupies little space, can be projected and is “self evident” as Mr. Livingston might say.

      You link offers a good “worded framework” explanation of life at it’s various levels of perception.

      When I was a child of 7, my parents took me to the fair and it was there that I was exposed to the “Fortune Teller Chicken”

      This chicken was kept in a glass cage about the size of an old phone booth. There was a coin slot and when you dropped a coin into it, small amount of grain would fall out in random fashion and into various small metal container below. As the chicken pecked about eating the grain more would be released. The small containers were sensitive to movement and would trigger lights that would reveal you future.

      This experience bothered me for many years, ~ as I don’t see much difference between me and that Fortune Telling Chicken.

  • Jbarrosj

    I completely agree with Mr. Livingston. Propaganda has been a very important tool throughout history for socialist and communist to push their agenda against their people. It’s already happened in this country and that’s why our media is so bias. Our mainstream media for the most part stopped reporting the facts a long time ago. They don’t show or report facts, they give their opinion and their views on the matter not the facts. We have a wonderful tool in our side called the Internet where we can do our own research and make up our own minds.

    • Lost in Paradise

      For the “time being”, it will also be taken or heavily regulated soon enough.

      • DaveH

        Already the FCC is instituting Net Neutrality rules, which by the way are Unconstitutional, but when did that stop the Obama administration?

        • DaveH

          From the article:
          “On a largely party-line vote in April, the House voted 240-179 to repeal the FCC regulations, but the agency has the support of the Democrat-controlled Senate and of President Obama, who appointed FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski”.

          We need to change that come November 2012.

  • jibbs

    Naturaly, the people don’t want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simplt matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parlment, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders.
    This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack o’patriotism and exposing them the country to danger. It’ works the same in every country.

    Hermann Goering. Hitlers Reich-Marshall

    • jibbs

      Sorry wrong button, should have said,

      Hermann Goering. Hitlers Reich-Marshall
      at the Nuremburg Trials after WWII

  • KnowTheTruthToday

    No Paul for me.

  • Bruce

    Mr. Livingston, A really great blog as seen the banter from those that refuse to open their minds to the many layers of this mass.
    So in fact they clearly display why your blog is so relevant.

  • Albert Maslar

    Federal Reserve Is A White Collar Mafia

    The Federal Reserve is a white collar Mafia, crooks with university degrees and deep banking ties. Figures don’t lie but liars figure. The Fed is really stealing from American savers, and especially senior citizens who have depended upon a bit of interest each year to tide them over during their once-called “Golden Years” but the Fed has de facto systematically devalued the dollar, and adding insult to injury sets the interest rate at practically zero (helping government keep their deficit down) while paying savers barely 10% of a penny interest.

    Meanwhile, the Fed prints money recklessly, further diminishing its value. They cover up this scheme with descriptions like Quantitative Easing; QE1, QE2, and soon to start QE3, that simply prints enough money to buy back excessive government debt and keep the reckless banks and themselves afloat.

    Obama is pushing college for everyone because that is the basic training ground for Liberals that are bent on destroying the Christian-Judeo culture of the U.S. and become a tool of the socialist state that dictates everything from crib (if lucky) and death to be determined by the individual’s profitability to the State, and as determined by ObamaCare’s panel of 15 who will grant life or death depending on the cost and usefulness of the individual to the State.

    Any bureaucracy created by government is designed to rob the public of morals, money, and further political control of the economy and thereby the people. Mr. Obama is in fact an evil person and ANYTHING he promotes is to be resisted. Who but an evil person would pursue abortion at every corner of America by financially threatening States that withdraw funding of Planned Parenthood, perpetrators of 330 Million abortions each year since 1953?

    The Fed is merely the tip of the iceberg. More than money is being stolen from the Republic the Founders fought for 235 years ago. Perhaps the expiration date has arrived in our times.

    Federal Reserve Can Reduce Government Debt

    The Federal Reserve is a quasi government banking organization that at any given time holds between $1.5 Trillion to $6 Trillion of government securities and debt.

    Since the Fed is secret, profits from its money printing schemes, operates much like an extension of government, and is not subject to oversight, why shouldn’t the Fed be required to donate its U.S. debt holdings to the federal government to alleviate the need for a debt limit increase? Interest expense on Fed debt holdings would also be eliminated.

    And if not donated, would government be justified in confiscating what amounts to illicit if not illegal Federal Reserve profits? There is no apparent downside but the country’s debt problems could be resolved and time gained to tackle entitlements, bureaucracy, waste, fraud, costly overlapping programs that inhibit economic growth, privatize mortgage behemoths Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, not to mention unilaterally withdrawing from Middle East Wars.

    A number of Congressional members spearheaded by Rep Ron Paul, (D-TX) have been lobbying for audit and even elimination of the Federal Reserve. The Fed is responsible for creating and printing money, sometimes out of thin air like in several recent Quantitative Easing events, QE1, QE2, and soon to embark with QE3, the printing of money to stimulate the economy.

    The following is an excerpt of remarks by Rep Ron Paul:
    An audit of the Fed is only the first step towards returning to where our Founders intended this country to be. The Founders knew that paper money could ruin a country, and drafted the Constitution in such a way that they thought would ensure sound, commodity-backed currency Unfortunately, the Constitution was dispensed with long ago, and we find ourselves now suffering under an unconstitutional regime of un-backed paper money. Until we abolish the Federal Reserve and return to a stable currency that is not able to be manipulated to create boom and bust cycles, we will continue down the path of economic ruin.
    (End of Ron Paul excerpt)

    Albert Maslar
    128 Huron Ave.
    Absecon, NJ 08201-2022

  • Dale Putnam

    Unfortunately, time is running out, we don’t have the luxury of asking and begging, the following the process to obtain all the answers, the doors will be slammed shut before that can run it’s course. One more year, and the final outcome or result of this whole long term incredible effort to pull down the last bastion of Freedom, destroy the last place on earth that a person can…. used to be able to do for himself and family first then others by choice. Why, if the concept of wrong, is comprendable, is it that certain processes are not brought to bare? Why is it the Senate is so overloaded with non thinking that the brilliant processes of protection for this situation cannot be brought to bear? When the head of an organization is causing the distruction of the organization, the simple solution, is logical and provided for. THEN and only then will the layers be pealed away to reveal exactly what has been going on for many many years, for all to see… and evaluate for themselves.

  • Raggs

    Web sites like this one are where alot of people peel back the layers of lies that they are told daily from this administration also a lot of folks come here to vent their anger… I usually fall in the category of a “venter”.. The problem is is that most Americans trust their government to do the right thing and therefore “sheeple” will never raise their heads from up out of the sand to see the light even when they are told over and over that they are the true problem with our country, meaning they are the reason the government railroads all of us and tbey get away with it.

    • JeffH

      Raggs, I was one of those “sheeple” for years, content to accept as truth, what was reported and what I was told by the Feds.

      My how things have changed, especially since coming to PLD and with all of the posters here.

      Thanks again to Bob Livingston for allowing all of us to learn and exchange.

      • Kate8

        Raggs – That just goes to show that our venting here is not in vain. It helps to spread the message, so others can wake up, too.

        • JeffH

          Kate8, I started distrusting the media was way back in the 70′s because of the local Chronicle sports page and the national news. I’d go to a Raider game, The Warriors or a SF Giants game and what was being reported didn’t coincide with what I was watching or the games and interviews I watched on local channels were totally mis-reported or actually fabricated as to what actually took place. That’s when I started to realize the media really wasn’t interested in reporting the facts or the truth. That certainly transcended into the every day news and even politics. I always suspected but never took the time to realize how all the lies and mis-information started to effect every day life here in America.

  • bill

    “Prima Facie” One of the best and truthful pieces I have read from Bob Livingston,Well done Bob ! Thanks

  • bob wire

    I don’t think the American people are naive as Bob suggest about government in general ~ but with money matters yes, probably so.

    They (the bankers) have made money matters complicated at every chance. I don’t know who claims the credit for out current tax system but I’d throw them in with the bankers.

    The people know that they are being taken advantage of but with so many things we see wrong taking place today. Attempting to connect a name and a face to the transgressors is a very hard thing to do. The people we hold accountable are insulated and protected and can use so many shields that in place to protect themselves. By the time a heist comes to our attention, the bag-man has made it out the back door weeks prior and we are left to asking question to an attractive 27 year old front girl dress to the nine’s, $190. black pat leather pumps, 9.00 stockings, 300.00 off the rack business suit, 90.00 silk blouse and 45.00 in Mona costume jewelry that knows very little but how to greet people.

    Fiat money or gold backed money, matters little if your are dealing with a system that elects to exploit people uses a jacked up system that disproportionately favors the dealer and creators of currency. I fail to see how any end results would be much different. These “people” in question would find a way to screw you out of your gold just a easy, would they not?

    Most people are so busy fighting off alligators, draining the swamp is the last thing on their mind. I believe that I fit into the category. I work hard and know well my profession but I’m not a banker or a CPA or an Attorney. These are professions I do not have a full grasp of and wouldn’t claim too. I employ them when required but even so, I’ve learned I can’t trust but a few to serve me before “other” considerations.

    Yes, Mr. Livingston! we need to drain the swamp. Tell us how this could be done.

    • Lost in Paradise

      Do you own a gun and have the will fight no matter the outcome? This is just a clue to the solution.

      • bob wire

        No I don’t, but I know where they come from, where they are stored and how to use them.

        And No, losing is not considered an option to me nor would I be inclined to be associate or encourage you to. That said , history does have a place for such minded people.

        But for me , no, not this early in this game and this last in life. It a wonder my name is not etched in black granite from defending myself against an enemy that wore black silk pajamas and fought back between the light and dark, monsoon rains and sweltering jungle heat.

        I do not suffer today, I have no plans to pick up arms~ but if I ever did, you will know it. It won’t be me but 500 to 1000 strong minumium

        • Lost in Paradise

          I’m very sorry you had to fight in that conflict, and no one should have. What a waste of human life, and money. Now you have a new enemy that wants total control of you and everyone living in the USA.Voting will never get us out of this mess, Never!

  • bob wire

    This is a powerful piece ~ offering great quandary as I know much of it is true.

    An attempt to put a name and face on who exactly is attacking us.

    • Kate8

      bw – I saved it to watch later.

      I also refer you to Carlucci’s link posted above. It is profound.

      • bob wire

        Thanks Katie, ~ I did, it was excellently written piece of work. I couldn’t begin to be that articulated with mere words. We are blessed with such people that can.

  • TML

    I like the call to question everything… very much needed, not only for us, but we must teach our children to do the same.

    The only thing I might not agree on in this article is the inclusion of Lincoln in that quote along side Jackson and Kennedy. In Kennedy’s famous “secret society”, it seems obvious who he is talking about… and it’s well known that Jackson removed central banks during his term… as did Thomas Jefferson… but Lincoln actually abandon the gold standard and began printing fiat currency to finance his invasion of the confederacy. I don’t see how he tried to stop any central bankers. Lincoln is one of those ‘Prima Facie’ ideas shoved down American’s throats as a great president, when in fact; the man was a tyrant, and probably the worst president in American history.

    “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” – Thomas Jefferson

    • Greg

      Lincoln didn’t invade the Confederacy. The Democratic South attacked Fort Sumter which started the war. When you make false statements, it kills the rest of your point.

      • TML

        “Lincoln didn’t invade the Confederacy. The Democratic South attacked Fort Sumter which started the war. When you make false statements, it kills the rest of your point.”
        I don’t see how that is a false statement, when it is quite well known that after the attack on Fort Sumter (which was on South Carolina soil) the Union did, in fact, invade the Confederacy.

        As for the justification for the attack… the Confederacy had already made a peaceful declaration of secession… the Confederate States of America was already formed, with a president elected, before the attack was made (in which no soldiers were killed, btw). The attack came in the face of utter refusal of acceptance to their declaration.

        “But the Union, in any event, will not be dissolved. We don’t want to dissolve it, and if you attempt it we won’t let you. With the purse and sword, the army and navy and treasury, in our hands and at our command, you could not do it. … … We do not want to dissolve the Union; you shall not.” Abraham Lincoln SPEECH AT GALENA, ILLINOIS, IN THE FREMONT CAMPAIGN, AUGUST 1, 1856.

        • TML

          He had every intention to invade and try to hold America together by the barrel of a gun, before he was even elected.

        • Lost in Paradise

          This is the point in time when Lincoln should have recieved the bullet. Not after he f**ked everything up so bad with a civil war.

      • bob wire

        While this is true, the absence of war does not constitute a peace.

        The South seen it’s self under siege on the Capital floor. The war started with a “vote of not confidence” and southern statesmen walking off of the House and Senate floor. The firing on Sumter was a mere formality.

        It was the best of times and the worst of times. Something we had to get past to ever get well and “talking” had failed.

        • TML

          “While this is true, the absence of war does not constitute a peace.”

          It was a declaration of secession, not a declaration of war. Only the Unionists took it as such.

          “The South seen it’s self under siege on the Capital floor.”

          Indeed they did, and for good reason. Not only because of Lincolns words such as I quoted above… but also for as it is read in the S.C. Declaration of Causes of Secession. Executive Orders were one of the reasons for secession.

          “Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself.” South Carolina Declaration of Secession

          Interesting that at the election of Abraham Lincoln, there was an explosion of Executive Orders (and has been ever since) which he used to suspend habeas corpus, and imprisoned people who spoke out against his actions, and many, many more tyranny’s to the Constitution.

          “It was the best of times and the worst of times. Something we had to get past to ever get well and “talking” had failed.”

          I disagree. Kennedy once said, “those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.” This is what the Union did. Lincoln was only responsible for holding the Union together by the barrel of a gun. This is NOT what the founder intended for their ‘experiment’ of freedom and liberty.

          “If there be any among us who would wish to dissolve the Union or to change its republican form, let them stand undisturbed as monuments of the safety with which error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.” – Thomas Jefferson’s First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

          • bob wire

            I can not fault you logic or understand of history.

            Lincoln, much like Truman had a pivotal decision too make.

            The South made it for Truman.

            The Japanese made it for Truman.

            When talk as failed, this will be the most obvious outcome.

            When Resolve and Resolution it seen as disingenuous, we walk a slipper slope and either side could stumble and fall unleashing the dogs of war and uncertainty rules the day. It’s easy to win battle while losing wars. Revolutions consume their young.

            There has been great wars in history ~ but I’ve not seen one in my life time.

          • TML

            @ Bob Wire – “Lincoln, much like Truman had a pivotal decision too make. The South made it for Truman.”

            I’m assuming you meant, Lincoln rather than Truman. However, Truman wasn’t the president during Pearl Harbor, that was Franklin D. Roosevelt… who actually was another no-good president…. if that is the relationship you are trying to make by saying “The Japanese made it for Truman”. Regardless, Pearl Harbor was much different than the events of the civil war, and can’t realistically be related in the point you’re wishing to make. As I’ve mentioned… Fort Sumter was on South Carolina (Confederate) soil… just to make one of the biggest differences, plus, no soldier was killed in the attack on Fort Sumter. If you wish to make a connection between Franklin D. Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln… it should be how he (Roosevelt) used Executive Orders (9066 to be exact) to imprison more than half the American citizens who were of Japanese ethnicity… for no other reason than being of Japanese decent, yet, they were American citizens.

            “When talk as failed, this will be the most obvious outcome.”

            Only by depots when their reason fails.

            “There has been great wars in history ~ but I’ve not seen one in my life time.”

            There has never been a good war, or a bad peace. – Benjamin Franklin

      • DaveH

        Read the book “The Real Lincoln” by Thomas DiLorenzo. You will find that you have been heavily propagandized by those who promote Big Government (as was I).
        There is a wealth of information out there for those who want to learn the Political Reality of the Civil War. But first, you must open your mind:

  • Bruman

    Gee, kind of makes you wonder why the “tea party” started and and why the media and most politicians blast it. Time to change the diapers.

    • Greg

      Just think, the Tea Party Patriots are made up of a lot of U.S. Veterans.

      • Bruman

        And I am a Vet. Guess after you’ve seen the government in action kind of opens your eyes a little.

    • bob wire

      Well? ~ the Tea Party started because there was the perception that a black man was now president and this could not stand nor could it be “openly” protested by any recognized oppositional party and offer a naked view of their hypocrisy and racial prejudice.

      What better way to defer liability then disguise yourself and appear to be something that you are not while offering strong protest? That is exactly how any penalty (or bad press) for civil disobedience or bad behavior is avoided. The GOP can be seen as innocent of these vigilante style attacks that are rooted in racial prejudice and directed toward a sitting United State President.

      Now ,in my mind that is why the Tea Party was originally conceived, but I do believe over the span of 2 1/2 years some good has come of it as we see the GOP attempting to return to it conservative roots due largely in part by the pressure imposed by Tea Party influence.

      Make no mistake, the GOP has a serious problem and correct needs to be made. They had turning into Corporate America’s Number one B1tch at the expense of the majority of Americans. A foundation conceived and laid in the early 80′s, make no mistake, these powers have grow like a cancer into government policy making on both side of the isle and made us all enablers to their lust for power and control.

      • Bob Livingston

        Dear bob wire,

        What you write about racism in the Tea Party movement is a lie and fabrication made up by the Left and the mainstream media. There have been no complaints or charges of racism by Tea Party advocates and participants that have been substantiated.

        You certainly can hold the opinion that is so, but it can’t be backed up by any facts.


        • Thinking About

          Perhaps the tea party has been invaded by those who are racist and post to this site is not by those who whom display racism. I don’t think it your intention to harbor those are racists but they are here.

      • Kate8

        bob wire – That is garbage and you know it. Just when I want to try to find you somewhat interesting, you post something that destroys all credibility on your part.

        I was among the first TeaPartiers, and the whole motivation was runaway government. Obama was leading the charge toward something we find horrific, along with Congress and the rest of the system, and we could also see that their loyalties were not with America as we knew it. Color never had anything to do with it and, in fact, there were many TeaParty members who were people of color, and who were there for the same reason.

        The accusations of racism from your camp have worn thin, and we just aren’t going to fold up anymore over it. Accuse all you want. A lie is a lie no matter how many times you repeat it, contrary to what the Progressive movement tells you.

        It is you are so blinded by O’s color that you let it blind you to the evil lurking behind the mask. Your foolishness is costing America dearly, and it will cost us much more before it’s over.

        I refer you again to Carlucci’s post. You can’t wake up because you are too plugged in to the matrix of deception, and can’t think thoughts of your own.

        I am very sad for you. There is but little time left.

        • bob wire

          Well Sir, Madam. It is an opinion rooted in occurrences, statements, timing and most often veiled, in much the same way Hitler came to power, pontificating with veiled threats and innuendos that many elected to ignore. The using of “Key Words” that everyone understood their meaning for few willing to fade the heat to openly express in civil discourse.

          This “Plausible Deniable” is at the essence of Tea Party hopes to go main stream and claim some majority. Why else would we hear democracy describe as “Mob Rule” ? They started off “cloaked”, hiding their faces, alliance to no party and hiding their money trail, with claims of being simply feed up Americans. (why now? I ask? ~ they didn’t like the general election results of 08)

          Now I do believe that the original 2009 Tea Party has been hyjacked and better minds have taken over, but many of the original intentions and ideas are still prevalent today.

          We see today a classic case of a leopard attempting to change it’s spots for “some” desired effect.

          If you can’t see this, ~ I do understand, for bigotry to even exist requires a certain blindness. I’m not putting anyone down for being only human and acting like a human. That’s the way we all are, blind to our faults and we don’t appreciate them being pointed out.

          • Average Joe

            bob wire,

            While it was noble of you to post a link that supports your veiw, it would have been much more enlightening if you were to post a fact filled link. The link that you posted is an opinion piece as set forth in the link itself ( I did take the time to read it and it is strictly opinion and not fact). In the future, try posting facts rather than opinion….because we all have opinions….and it is apparent that many of you have no facts to support your “opinions”.
            You do know what they say about opinions, right?…..Stop talking out of yours…..your link, just like your opinion ….has no validity in fact. As for when and why the Tea Party was started, it was started on Dec.16, 2007 in response to Dr. Ron Pauls’ “Money Bomb” on that date ( anniversary of the Boston Tea Party) raising nearly $6 million in 24 hours.
            They previous money bomb was held on Nov.5, 2007 (Guy Fawkes day) which raised 4.3 million dollars in 24 hours.

            Your premise that the Tea Party was a response to A black president is a complete fallacy…since he hadn’t even been elected to office in 2007. Nice try, but in the future you might try dazzlig us with brilliance…rather than baffling us with BS.

            “The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.”
            John F. Kennedy

          • Capitalist at Birth

            You have been duped. T.E.A. stands for taxed enough already. What is racist about that. Your insuation, is just that. I told people in May of 2008 that we needed a grass root movement similar to the Tea Party of old. What is racist about that.

          • bob wire

            “The link that you posted is an opinion piece as set forth in the link itself ( I did take the time to read it and it is strictly opinion and not fact). ”

            You are right Average Joe, it was an opinion piece that was supported by hard data and many years research.

            Now , you can question the data or the opinion or both. You probably will, as it cast an unflattering light on Tea Party supporters. Or at least I see it as unflattering. Someone like i41 would take great pride in such a piece.

            Now while I know personally not every Tea Party supports heart is in the wrong place , that many are well intended with their support.

            This “opinion” was a wide view in the mirror that “other American’s” see. I’d not expect any of you to see the same thing.

            I expect you to scoff and attack me.

        • OB1

          Thanks Kate8 for you honest observations and informative posts. I am still working and have many other commitments as well; can’t post too often. Yes, I was very disappointed with BobWire when he revealed him/her self as being a bigot. Just when I thought he was getting interesting too….

      • Greg T

        What a racist statement by bob wire, and all without any evidence!

        I consider myself a Tea Party guy, I am the godfather to a Haitian girl that I love. Her father and I are best friends. We do not agree politically and we discuss politics often. I don’t care about the rest of your writings after such inflammatory rhetoric…so kiss mine you bigot.

        And for your mind to grasp, the same heated debates over healthcare occurred when another Democrat tried it in the 90′s. Of course back then the pundits call Bill Clinton the first black President.

        • bob wire

          yea, those “pundits” were mostly Republicans if memory serves. You know? the people that you claim you are not.

          • Capitalist at Birth

            Bill Clinton laid claim to the title himself. You do not have a very good memory.

          • Kate8

            Capitalist – That’s exactly right. Clinton referred to himself as the first black president, and proclaimed it loud and often, hoping to buy votes.

            It made rational people gag, but then, rational people didn’t vote for him.

            I guess this makes O the second black president.

            Good grief.

          • bob wire

            “Bill Clinton laid claim to the title himself. You do not have a very good memory.”

            and you agreed?

            well good! then can I depend on you for all racial charged matters ,both large and small since you seem to have a mind for such matters?

          • Kate8

            bw – What??? You aren’t making sense again.

            I say this in all sincerety, bw. I think your pain meds interfere with your thinking.

      • OB1

        BW, you cannot make a statement without proof of facts that the Tea Party represents the voice of racists. You know not if I am white, black, Asian, or Indian, do you? Am I racist against the white half of Obama or his black half? I am personally against so many of his edicts, some of which are the poor choices he has made in his czars, over-doing executive orders, his cozy relationship with Goldman-Sachs, GE’s Immelt who paid no taxes, and his lack of experience as a junior senator who rarely voted! I know of no other president who has paid millions to have their personal scholastic, legal, and identity papers sealed! You are a bigot:

        World English Dictionary
        bigot (ˈbɪɡət) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

        — n
        a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race

        [C16: from Old French: name applied contemptuously to the Normans by the French, of obscure origin]

        Example Sentences

        * The bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you put upon it, the more it will contract.

        * Stop being a political bigot and putting words in our mouths.

        * The sincerity of either man can only be doubted by the bigot and the fool.

        • Capitalist at Birth

          Bob Wire sounds like a bigot.

          • bob wire

            I am ! and I know it ! That’s the biggest single difference between you and I.

            The biggest problem I ever had was not thinking that I had one.

            And that where you are at today. These are other peoples problems, you don’t have any. LOL ☺

      • JeffH

        Kate8, bw has openly displayed his distain for the Tea Party movement as long as he’s been here, much the same way he despises Palin. Like Mr. Livingston said, there isn’t a shred of evidence to back it up. Pure media driven conjecture has been purchased by bw.

        bw has been trying to sell this idea for quite a while and has dropped to an all time low here by infusing the idea that the Tea Party is in some way “race hate” driven. bw should adhere to his own advice of not buying in to the drivel.

        • Kate8

          JeffH – LOL. bw is an enigma. I’ve certainly had my go rounds with him, and I don’t often read his posts anymore. He can be exhausting.

          Occasionally I am amused at things he comes up with. He’s just off-the-wall enough to suggest that, just maybe, there might be a small crack in that liberal mind where a particle of light might filter through…

          But then he pulls some idiocy again, and all I can do is blow him off before I get annoyed.

          • bob wire

            Katie , you’d just have to read it to know, wouldn’t you?

            That anyone can scoff at anything that is offered and presented makes them as much of a dead head as they seem to claim I am.

            And Average Joe, thanks for the fill in and updating of the early TP movement.

            and for what it’s worth to you, I match every hundred dollars you sent to Ron Paul’s campaign. I believe he could use it about now.

        • bob wire

          LOL! Just about everybody’s a bigot on some level. ~ But you don’t have to call me one just because I point to long running documented research that indicates that it’s a core value of most Tea party supporters.

          I didn’t suggest it ~ I offered an opinion backed up by research.

          I don’t expect you to be honest with me, when you can’t be honest with yourselves.

          What you should be doing is attacking the research. ~

          But I find it reflects what I see and hear happening today and yesterday. More yesterday then today.

          Where is 141 when you need a poster boy?

          • Kate8

            bw – RWL (roaring with laughter).

            “Documented research”?

            From where? Huffpo? Bill Maher? Rachel Maddow? Barack and Michelle?

            RRWLN (really roaring with laughter now).
            :) :) :) :)

          • JeffH

            Kate8, that was very funny, yer killin me! :)

  • Aniko

    Mr. Livingston:

    What do you actually propose? NO GOVERNMENT? That’s anarchy = lawlessness! Third party? That means Obama et al another 4 yrs. Ron Paul? Also Obama another 4 yrs.
    Why? Because America’s present problem is not a single issue concern that of “fiscal policies” at the expense of social and national defense issues as Dr. Paul advocates.

    The “Prima Facie” of “printing money” by the Federal Reserve does make it sound as “illegal”, however it is “illegal and bad” ONLY if it is not backed by GDP and revenue. Gold cannot be re-considered to be the backing of currency since the economy is not solely related to the amount of gold a treasury “owns”. That is REALLY archaic thinking!

    We seem to be overly concerned about the “FEDS” when our economy is contracting, tax revenue is declining and keeping status quo government programs cannot be reduced for political reasons. But the economy is a fluctuating system with its tides and ebbs. Present problems, as much as they seem overwhelming, cannot be solved by restructuring our monetary system only. It is vastly more complex than that and single issue political candidates are NOT the answer!

    • TML

      “…at the expense of social and national defense issues as Dr. Paul advocates.”

      I think “expense” is the key word there. He advocates reduced military spending, by bring our troops home and stopping the policing of the world. That doesn’t weaken our “National” defense; it strengthens it, as opposed to having our military spread across the globe. You are wrong to suggest that Ron Paul is a “single issue” candidate, when, last I checked, he is the only candidate to actually have written on his campaign website; his stance on all the issues.

      “The “Prima Facie” of “printing money” by the Federal Reserve does make it sound as “illegal”, however it is “illegal and bad” ONLY if it is not backed by GDP and revenue. Gold cannot be re-considered to be the backing of currency since the economy is not solely related to the amount of gold a treasury “owns”. That is REALLY archaic thinking!”

      If you consider that ‘money’ is simply anything that is the most generally accepted medium of exchange, and follow the logic, the idea of fiat money is actually the archaic thinking. Gold provides a base value that can not be tampered with, or inflated, and when this country followed the gold standard, it was the largest period of economic growth in this country’s history.

      The monetary system is not the only issue, indeed, but it is a source problem for the economy.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Aniko,

      I propose Constitutional government—as Ron Paul also advocates. That would be a Federal government that abides by its powers enumerated in Article 1, Section 8, with more power in the States as guaranteed by Amendments 9 and 10. That is not anarchy. It government as the Founders intended, and destroyed by the tyrant Lincoln.

      You write: “The ‘Prima Facie’ of ‘printing money’ by the Federal Reserve does make it sound as ‘illegal’, however it is ‘illegal and bad’ ONLY if it is not backed by GDP and revenue. Gold cannot be re-considered to be the backing of currency since the economy is not solely related to the amount of gold a treasury ‘owns’. That is REALLY archaic thinking! We seem to be overly concerned about the ‘FEDS’ when our economy is contracting, tax revenue is declining and keeping status quo government programs cannot be reduced for political reasons. But the economy is a fluctuating system with its tides and ebbs.”

      You have been deceived and possess no real understanding of the Federal Reserve and economics. Do you know why the economy is contracting, revenue is declining and “the economy is a fluctuating system with its tides and ebbs?” It is because of the unConstitutional Federal Reserve. Please search this site for my articles on the economy and Fed for a better understanding of that monster.

      Best wishes,

      • TML

        Well said… I like your choice of words.

    • DaveH

      Why is it that those who oppose reducing the size of Government so often resort to the cry of “Anarchy!”?
      Anarchy is the state of No Government at any level. Do you really think that is even possible? Can you name any countries which ever existed without any organization or rules (Government)? Since we have no actual experience with the results of Anarchy, how can anybody proclaim it to be bad?
      Anarchy is just a manipulative buzzword used by people who fear the reduction of Government.

      • DaveH

        Anarchy has long been associated with Chaos by the Propagandizers. But, as I’ve pointed out there is a dearth of evidence to support that association. In fact, there is plenty of evidence for the Chaos that is created by too much Government. See Greece, Egypt, and many other current examples of that.

      • AnhydrousBob

        If I may, in defense of the word Anarchy – and of course the idea it stands for, point out that the word actually means No Rulers. That was the original meaning – from it’s Greek Origins, and it is still the first definition given in the dictionaries I checked.

        There is a difference in NO RULERS and NO RULES. As pointed out by DaveH, the word has morphed into meaning chaos – but that is what the big government folks would like everyone to believe.

        Think about it, everything we have been taught is that we need rulers to keep us safe (whether from each other or from ourselves or from the Monsters in the dark). In other words, left to ourselves, we’d all be killing and stealing and in general making mayhem. Really? That is what they want us to believe about ourselves and each other.

        Remember, No Rulers – Good, No Rules – Bad.

    • Raggs


      You confuse the complete removal and the replacement of All politicans with anarchy… Ever heard the phrase “One bad apple”??? We have nothing BUT bad apples and adding apples to the barrel will absoultely do nothing to fix America…

      The removal and the replacement of all bad apples!!!! :)

  • Thinking About

    Perhaps the “smart ones” pushing for and got deregulation open a new world of corruption. The regulations worked very well from the Depression till recent years and deregulation occurred. Bankers and the likes of Madoff has proven “manmade” fraud is now in open season. We are electing Congressional members who does not have a clue to their responsibilities and do not even have a grasp on American history. I know many on this site are Paul fans and I wonder if reality has entered into their decisions of his age. Trust me, though he may be a smart man he should also know he is not as sharp as he was some 30-40 years ago and if he does not realize this then I would question his ability to make good decisions. Don’t go yelling he is as good today ad he ever was because I am also in the golden years and also very involved in many senior groups. We don’t like to admit it but this is true. The reason for some of these comments is where is the young “Paul” or has our education system so failed us we are only able to produce ones who rant and rave and no clue how to get out of the rain. The offerings is terrible and running the cart off in the ocean.

    • Lost in Paradise

      Well, “thinking about”, you may be senile Yourself or what ever, but do not count the rest of in on that one. You would be surprised at how quick and sharp a lot of seniors are. You like most idiots like to write off anyone over 55, as lost to old age.

      • Thinking About

        Perhaps you are “Lost” in your comprehension or translation and I am older than 55 and as I stated I am involved on many senior groups and have lived and learned through the years of knowing we are not as fast as we was in the past years. My point was to find the younger version of Paul.

        • Kate8

          Thinking about – Speak for yourself. You can have several people of the same age group, and some will be “older” than others.

          Wisdom is a very desirable thing in a leader, and it comes with age. That is something Obama is sadly lacking, and he makes foolish decisions based on the thinking of his youth.

          Well, he doesn’t really make decisions. They’re made for him.

          I don’t think age is going to do any good in his case.

          • OB1

            Kate8, thank you for mentioning the word “wisdom” in your statement. Good point. Here is the definition:

               /ˈwɪzdəm/ Show Spelled[wiz-duhm] Show IPA
            the quality or state of being wise; knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action; sagacity, discernment, or insight.
            scholarly knowledge or learning: the wisdom of the schools of the ages
            wise sayings or teachings; precepts.
            a wise act or saying.
            ( initial capital letter ) Douay Bible . Wisdom of Solomon.

    • DaveH

      How can anybody talk about Deregulation when in fact the Government has been steadily growing for hundreds of years in relation to our Gross Domestic Product?
      For real-world experiences on the effects of regulations see here:

      Check out the countries at the top of the list (least regulated), and those on the bottom (most regulated). Tell me honestly which you would prefer to live in.

      • bob wire

        Now that was an interesting link. thanks Dave

        I was in Hong Kong in 78. ~ myself and some partners launched the first Pizza Inn there.

        After clearing all the red tape it was much like free wheeling Bangkok but much more modern and of course the Chinese are much larger people as a rule.

        It’s good to know that our thinking was correct, but like always, I always seem to be a little too early.

  • speedle

    Livingston makes some good points, especially with his “Prima Facie” analogy, and the implications of our screwed up monetary policy should be an open debate. But some of you people here are nut bags – the kind of thinkers that would be happy to shoot themselves in the head to get rid of a headache.

    This “conspiracy” bulls— from Jackson to Kennedy and all the rest makes me want to puke. Conservatives don’t have to be goofy. Our problems are not mysterious. They are part of a cultural war that has been ongoing for eons. There is the ideology of those who think an elite class must rule over and take care of the Great Unwashed as the primary objective, vs. the ideology of those who believe in the individual and individual freedom as the primary objective (accepting all the inherent problems that go with such chaos). We are coming to the culmination of a half century of the former ideology being in control thanks to the public dumbing down of the liberal trained media and the post Viet Nam academic indoctrination.

    If we make the right moves we can start to reverse all this, but acting like radical barking dogs in the distance ain’t gonna get it done.

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear speedle,

      Your response is typical of those who have not begun peeling back the layers. I would suggest you have some work still to do.

      Best wishes,

      • speedle

        Bob, with all due respect, and with no intention whatsoever to denigrate your work, I have seen the layers that you have exposed and I see much ado about nothing (banking/Trilateral conspiracy stuff). You make solid points about the problems with the monetary system, but why does the identification of the problem have to result in the exposure of some kind of secret world conspiracy in order find a solution?

        You do great work at laying out the problem, but you can do much better in helping solve them.

        • Kate8

          speedle – “…much ado about nothing”?

          Wow. You are a case in point.

          I suggest you do some more research, then come back and try again.

        • DaveH

          Much ado about nothing? Tell that, Speedle, to Mom and Pop who have been saving all their lives only to see the purchasing power of their savings cut in half or worse.

          • speedle

            Well DaveH, are you telling me that the reason “Mom and Pop” savings have been diluted is because this secretive group of political “elites” get together in seclusion and plot how to steal grandma’s savings? Do you really believe this kind of bulls–t?

            There are reasons but it has more to do with idiots in the government who print money whenever market forces try to correct financial errors, like saving General Motors (who deserved to go bankrupt) at the expense of everyone other than the UAW gangsters. Why don’t you focus on the real problems and maybe we can get something done. As I said, conspiracy theorists are nothing but barking dogs in the background.

          • Kate8

            speedle – “Conspiracy theorist” is a term coined by the PTB in order to scare the weak-minded away from looking into the evidence, and possibly garnering the truth.

            The sign of an open mind is not so much what you know, but how you respond to new input. A closed mind has accepted a premise that’s been fed in, and has engraved in in stone (forming permanent neuropathways). Therefore, when new ideas are introduced which conflict with the “accepted premise”, they are mocked and discarded without further investigation.

            This is how the vast majority of people function. It takes a lot of courage to question the status quo, and not many can handle it.

            I refer you to this:


          • bob wire

            “Tell that, Speedle, to Mom and Pop who have been saving all their lives only to see the purchasing power of their savings cut in half or worse.”

            Well dave that is bad, without doubt. ~ But it happening to everyone and not just mom & pop , right? So why tell mom & pop and not the others ?

            Shoot , I watched in disbelief as I seen old folks washed out by Ronnie’s polices back in the 80′s. Few seem to give a sh1t, I wouldn’t expect people to care anymore then they did back then. A Houston couple committed double suicide from embarrassment supplied the IRS visiting and no place to turn and seeing no way out.

            Wall Street and defense worker were living large and all was right in the world.

          • DaveH

            Did I say anything about a Secretive Group, Speedle? It’s called the Federal Reserve, and they are doing it right out in the open, call it QE1, QE2, or whatever excuse they use to create extra money.

            I’m hardly a conspiracy theorist. I can back up almost everything I say with good hard facts. Can you?

          • DaveH
          • speedle

            The “Bilateral Commission” that some people are talking about here is a “secretive group”. If you are one of the nut bags that thinks these people are running the world then too bad for you.

            On the other hand where have you seen me write about the appropriateness of Keynesian economic theory? Never. It is a disaster. The idea being promoted here by everyone that we need to drastically change the way we do business is right on. All I am saying is when some of you start promoting Bilateral Commissions, UFOs or Voodoo of some other kind as ideological targets, you lose all credibility and screw up everything else that you have right.

          • speedle

            Pardon me. I meant to say “Trilateral”, not “Bilateral”.

  • Hope For American

    ‘The Establishment’ Elite consists of three parts – The Council of Foreign Relations (C)- which is the American branch of a society which organized in England and believes national boundaries should be obliterated and one world rule established.

    The Trilateral Commission (T) – formed in 1973 by private citizens of Japan, Europe, and North America (U.S. and Canada) to foster closer cooperation among these core democratic industrialized areas of the world with shared leadership responsibilities in the wider international system, and is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States.

    The Bilderberg (B) – is a quasi-secret consortium of international elite who meet annually to plan world economic and political policies.

    U.S. Presidents
    Barack Hussein Obama – B
    William J. CLinton – B,C,T
    George Herbert Walker Bush C,T
    James Earl Carter – C,T
    Gerald R. Ford, Jr. – B,C
    Richard Milhous Nixon – C
    Dwight D. Eisenhower – C
    Herbert Clark Hoover – C

    Joseph Biden – B
    Richard B. Cheney – C,T
    George H. W. Bush – B,C,T

    2008 Presidential Candidates
    Hillary Rodhan Clinton – B
    John Edwards – B,C
    John S. McCain III – C
    Fred Thompson – C

    Twenty six officials of the Federal Reserve System either belong to one or all three of the above. Eight on the President’s Council of Economic Advisors belong to one or all three. Seventeen Current House of Representatives, forty five Former House Members, eleven Current U.S. Senators, thirty eight Former U.S. Senators, Union Leaders Jay Mazur and John J. Sweeney, thirty five Financial Institutions, thirty one from the News Media, The Federal Judiciary, National Security Council, The CIA, Military Officials from every branch, the Export-Import Bank, International Monetary Fund, The World Bank, Bank of America, Bankers Trust Company, Brown Brothers Harriman, Chase Manhattan, Citigroup, North Carolina National Bank – renamed NationsBank, Federal National Mortgage Assoc., College and University Presidents, and the 9/11 Commission, are all associated with the Council of Foreign Affairs, The Trilateral Cmmission, or Bilderberg.

    The only way to get rid of those treasonous parasites is to expose them. Hillary Clinton has already denied any involvement in the Bilderberg group, but I have a tape showing her going into a meeting – the same meeting that Rockefeller, Queen Beatrice, Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip were attending. Can anyone now understand why the Arab nations are pissed off? My guess is that ‘The Establishment’ has started wars with them which has murdered innocent lives of their people, and wants to change their way of life. Madeline Albright, who was born Marie Jana Korbelova, told Leslie Stahl that the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children in the U.S. sanctions against Iraq ‘We think the price is worth it.’ My personal opinion is that power, land, resources, and monopoly money does not equate nor justify taking the life of ‘one’ human being.

    • speedle

      Do you check under your bed every night to make sure there are no bogeymen lurking?

      • Hope For American

        No, I don’t, but perhaps you should. I have no fear and would rather speak the truth and lose my life, than hide in a corner to spare my life. I personally don’t like being a slave to an established few, and that includes paying taxes on my labor and permanent rent on a house and land that I own. But there are some who enjoy being slaves.

        • speedle

          Well get used to it Hope, because taxes have always been and will always be a fact of life on this planet. It has been so the second humans determined there was survival strength in numbers. The question is what is the fair and most beneficial means of taxing and what should be publicly funded, and that deserves a lot of serious thought.

          • DaveH

            There are only two kinds of taxes that I would consider “Fair”. That would be User taxes, and a True Flat Tax where every adult paid the same. Most of the rest are just various forms of theft which if performed by mainstream Americans would land them in jail.

          • Raggs

            speedle… Have you heard the news???? ONLY 50% of Americans pay taxes!… Do you find that to be fair???

        • speedle

          “Have you heard the news???? ONLY 50% of Americans pay taxes!… Do you find that to be fair???”

          Duh! Read my lips. I said we Neeeeed to reform the tax system. I was responding to the guy who seemed to think he shouldn’t have to pay ANY taxes. Yes Fair tax or flat tax, either one. Just do it right.

          • bob wire

            Fair? Is that important? If 30 % of them are not making money I’d supposes that would leave 20% that should be paying taxes. If 15% are children I suppose 5% should be paying taxes and calling it

          • DaveH

            There is nothing fair about the Fair Tax. Ask the retailers who would be turned into tax-collectors for the Government:

      • Kate8

        Not being in fear only counts if you can perceive the threat clearly and refuse to allow it to control you.

        You don’t conquer fear by denial. That just makes you blind.

        And easy prey.

        • JeffH

          Hear Hear! :)

      • Lost in Paradise

        No Speedle, we check to see if you are there lurking under our beds.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Are you totally oblivious to the obvious?

        • Kate8

          Capitalist – Is that a rhetorical question? :) :)

  • Thor

    “We are in the final stages of the greatest wealth transfer in history, and precious few Americans are aware of it.”

    That sums it up, Bob. And few Americans are going to benefit from it either! This is what many folks don’t realize: this is not done for the benefit of Americans of wealth (as if somehow, the fact that other American business people might end up with the transferred wealth might dampen the effect). Here’s why the Fed has become the monster it is today:

    The Federal Reserve was established in 1913, ostensibly to help control panic in the US Banking System/Economy after the panic of 1907; but what is more, Europe was soon to be at war at the time and the US would not enter WWI until four years after it started. It was not difficult to see that Britain and other European countries were going to need a healthy ally and an ally with a healthy economy to help them rebuild when the war was over. Set up as an instrument to help homogenize the banking industry, during the rebuilding of Europe at the end of WWI it was realized that the Fed could be used as an instrument to ‘balance the US economy’ against that of Europe and other recovering economies. That principle was enhanced after WWII, when it was learned in the administration of the Marshall Plan, which was administered on the other end by a banking system largely dominated by the Rothchilds, et al, that the Fed could be used to control inflation for the purpose of ‘slowing’ the US economy—which is precisely what Jimmy Carter did by using the Fed to boost interest on some money to 21%. That caused something of a backlash in the US, which helped Reagan get elected, implemented a restructuring of US business, the banking industry and, in the end, pushed Europe to expand the influence of the old European Economic Community (EEC), which in turn became the European Union in 1993, now with 27 members, up from 6 (circa 1958). The EU would never have equalized economic pressure caused by US business success and narrowed its lead in world economy without Carter’s help. And the US dollar would not now be in the perilous position of losing its status as the world’s reserve currency if it were not for the way the Federal Reserve (along with the vilification of American Capitalism) has been used by US Presidents whose strings are pulled in Europe.

    Folks like Ron Paul, who are courageous enough to remind folks of this history are not likely to garner much mainstream popularity. It needs to be done however…again and again.

    • Hope For American

      I think Ron Paul is the only way to go, but some people refuse to grasp anything and still think black is white and white is black.

      Wars are started by the banking system who loan money to both sides of the war. They then loan money to each country to repair their infrastructure and when a country can’t repay the loans, the banks moved in and claim everything. I agree with Dr. Paul – keep our damn noses our of other countries business. But ‘The Establishment’ can’t do that because they are the underdogs for the banks, and the rest of us are the underdogs for ‘The Establishment’.

      They’ve almost reached their goal of establishing everything and when that happens, ‘we little underdogs’ will be of little use to them. Wasn’t it Prince Phillip from England who made the remark that he’d like to come back as a disease to wipe out most of the population because there’s too many people living on Earth. What he meant was that there are too many who are ‘beneath’ him and he thinks he’s royally entitled to live off Englander’s money without working a day in his life. Nobody is entitled to anything without working for it, and that includes his ‘lowness’.

      • DaveH

        I believe that if all Americans were fully informed, Ron Paul would be a shoo-in.
        But currently most are heavily propagandized by the Disinformation Media who stand much to lose if we get a Free Market advocate in the Executive Branch. The MSM, owned by Media Moguls who hang out with other Corporate Moguls, know that their Gravy Trains would be in great jeopardy in Free Markets. It’s much easier for them to seek the protection of Government in its various forms (favorable regulations, subsidies, and protective tariffs) than for them to face their competitors on a level playing field.
        So they will fight their hardest to prevent Ron Paul’s agenda from seeing the light of day.

        • Hope For American

          You’re right, Dave, and if he does get in they will probably assassinate him. But I will still adhere to his ideas and beliefs. That situation would then be left up to the people to begin removing people from office, electing only those who believe in our principles and values, and never allow another ‘career’ politician to hold office, including those who we believe in. It was not the principle of our founding fathers for a ‘lawyer’ to make a career from politics. The average joe used to be elected, but today all that run for office are lawyers who have been trained by progressives.

          • DaveH

            And lawyers writing laws creates an inherent conflict of interest. Of course their tendencies are towards complexity and obscurity because complexity and obscurity create more court cases, thus more money for themselves and their lawyer buddies.

          • Kate8

            I recently read that, until more recent times, it was illegal for lawyers to be members of Congress.

            More wisdom of our founders gone unheeded.

          • DaveH

            Thomas Jefferson was a lawyer. He was our second vice president, and our third president.
            And nowhere in the Constitution are lawyers prohibited from elected office. Of the fifty-five members of the Constitutional Convention, thirty-one were lawyers:

            It truly is amazing that so many lawyers could write such a simple document as the Constitution is.

          • Kate8

            DaveH – Sorry. I didn’t bother to check it out. It was in someone’s post from last week.

          • DaveH

            To be sure, we probably would be a lot better off if they had been banned from the Congress.

    • bob wire

      ““We are in the final stages of the greatest wealth transfer in history, and precious few Americans are aware of it.”

      Oh! they know it alright! you can count on that! The American people are not as dumb as you might think. They simple are not as reactionary as many of you.

      but the final stages? No, ~ They have much more that they can take, ~ this is not the final stages they are going to slowly take everything but your name and then someone will take that if it worth a nickle by then.

  • Chris

    The real problem is that most people believe that they live in a system which is of, by and for the people. Very effective propaganda.
    It must have been written by PT Barnum. No government official gives a damn about the average citizen. They only care about the lobbyists who can line their pockets and keep them in office.

    • Raggs

      Their BIGGEST concern is power and more power with the power to rule the world! Paper money is fastly losing its ablity to produce and hold power.. So then what happens when money is worthless and the government insist on abtaining more power??? They take power that they do not have by throwing us under the bus not to mention they refuse the consitiution ( oblama daily )… They usurp power…

      • Raggs

        How many layers was that??? .. :)

  • Average Joe

    Most of what we perceive depends on whether we are left ,right or center brained.

    I am posting some links to determine which we are (L,R or C).
    I am center brained myself….the best and worst of both worlds.

    Left brain dominant individuals are more orderly, literal, articulate, and to the point. They are good at understanding directions and anything that is explicit and logical. They can have trouble comprehending emotions and abstract concepts, they can feel lost when things are not clear, doubting anything that is not stated and proven.

    Right brain dominant individuals are more visual and intuitive. They are better at summarizing multiple points, picking up on what’s not said, visualizing things, and making things up. They can lack attention to detail, directness, organization, and the ability to explain their ideas verbally, leaving them unable to communicate effectively.

    I am posting my results here and would like to see how everyone else “thinks”. ( I’m betting that are a lot of “center” thinkers on this site and a few each of left and right).

    My results:

    Test 1: My score was 11
    Test 2: Brain Lateralization Test Results
    Right Brain 46%
    Left Brain 40%
    *results won’t usually add up to 100% as this test measures each side seperately. Overall you appear to have fairly Equal Hemispheres.

    Please take the time to test and post your results ( be honest )…I’d really like to see how others “think”.

    In advance, thanks for playing along.

    • Raggs

      Hey I scored a 12…
      But you will need a different test to see if oblama even has a brain.. :)

      • Average Joe

        Like an Electron Miroscope?….lol. Nomomma’s Brain on a razor blade would look like a BB rolling down an 8 lane highway. :p

        • Raggs

          :) :)

        • Kate8

          Average Joe – The ancient Huna perceived the right and left brain, or conscious mind/unconscious mind, as spirits whose function is primarily parental (forming our reflection of the triune nature of the Supreme Creator). They taught that an individual is composed of three main and separate entities who have been fragmented, and our mission is to bring these beings into oneness, thereby aligning with the Supreme and becoming the I AM.

          Our left brain is for navigating through the manifest world, and the right is our connection to Spirit, presiding over our dreams and our intuitive/spirit nature.

          Ideally, one would be balanced, so we could always make wise choices and act accordingly. This is what is portrayed by the “Holy Family”.

          Sadly, though, most people have believed the lie posed by the corrupted conscious (masculine) mind, which is that the physical world is all there is, so feel free to exploit and explore all of your appetites (this is from whence comes the voice of the destroyer). The unconscious feminine then is then silenced, or walled-off, existing to serve the more base understanding of the conscious. And that she does, giving him exactly what he programs into her.

          I point this out to demonstrate how badly fragmented man has become (a theme repeated in all esoteric teachings), and how, by learning to respect all parts of ourselves, we can begin to heal, first ourselves, then the world.

          This is how things have been turned upside-down.

          • Kate8

            I scored 13.

          • Average Joe

            So far three of us have been brave enough to take the test….and so far I am right ….all three of us are “center brain”. My assumption was based on postings by the people on this site. I am still waiting to hear from folks like Bob Wire, eddie47d etc….I am betting that their scores are much different (since the majority of people are either left or right brain dominant, rather than center).I am still wondering about the results from the second test…it gives a comparison for validity purposes. The test wouldn’t be valid if you got different results between the two tests.

          • bob wire

            I scored a #6 moderate left

            This test results when compared to others that you have read their “stuff” does offer insights that can be measured and offer enlightenment.

            During my studies of Human Relations and Business Relations this science was gone over quit well. We are not near the mystery we seem to think we are.

            Human behavior has almost became a hard science. They have read your book before you have. We now know why people do what they do.

            Sells is a great place to use this knowledge and we do, everyday as we attempt to capture markets and minds.

            “Buy Gold!” ~ It’s a bold command and you know that you would like to, so why not today?

            What the other link about? guess I’ll see

          • bob wire

            the second link wouldn’t open for me ~ just a white page ~ done.

            oh well, that was fun.

            “self evident” ~ at first glance? ~ Well I do believe that a lot of people think that way. ~ but I’m not one of them.

            A tour in Nam and returning alive with all your issued parts will cure anyone of that idea. There is few things that are self evident in this world. ~ You come into it with your mother and you leave alone.

          • Average Joe

            Bob Wire,
            The other link was a different version of the test by another researcher. Sorry that the link did not work (puzzling since I copied the link from my browser).
            It is easier to test the validity of the results if you have more than one test in which to compare the data. I posted my results from both tests above to show that both tests (which were different in nature and questioning) to show the correlations between the two tests.

    • Karolyn

      the second link wouldn’t work. I guess you’re right, Joe. I scored a 17, making me a right-brained person. I’m content with that. It makes for a more creative person. From what I have studied, men are usually more left brained.

      • Kate8

        Joe – The second link didn’t work for me, either.

      • bob wire

        17 ! WoW ! Karolyn,

        I’m surprised. are you?

        You are out in the pea patch!

    • JeffH
    • BrotherPatriot

      Scored a 6, Joe.

      Moderate left brain…apparently.

      God Bless each & everyone who reads this site.

      Yol Bolsun.

  • Stunned at sunset

    I agree with everything Bob says. The only thing that I’m vexed with is: After they’ve transferred all of the wealth of the world to themselves, what are the Plutocrats going to do with it? If everyone is flat broke, disillusioned, racially, ethnically, and religiously biased, starving to death, disenfranchised, disinherited, enslaved and seething with murderous emotions, who or what in the hell can be bought?

    The Soviet Union did this. The Third Rich did this. The French Empire did this. The British Empire Did this. The Vikings did this. The Mongol Empire did this, The Chin and Han Dynasties did this The Romans did this. The Greeks did this. The Persians did this. The Egyptians did this. The Babylonians did this, the Sumerians did this.

    Where are all these “Empires of the will” now? George Santayana was right. We just have to pay attention to the details.

    • 45caliber

      Wealth is only a means to power. They know that once they own all the wealth that it will be basically worthless.

      However some types of wealth remain. The ownership of land, for instance. And money is useful in transactions so I seriously doubt that it will be eliminated. It is useful to use power since you can use it to hire those you want and to starve those you dislike by withholding it.

      What I believe is that there is a group – many of whom who don’t even work together with the main leaders – who desire to be a king with total power over all those under him. Further, they do not want large populations since the larger the population, the harder it is to control them. They expect to someday have wars with each other but probably not within their lifetimes. During those lifetimes they would have total authority over all under them – and that means tyranny. They may or may not have wishes to do things now considered illegal but they want that power. If any were to rise against them, they wouldn’t consider it murder to have those people executed. Nor would they consider it a crime to select the most beautiful of women as concubines/slaves.

      • bob wire

        “However some types of wealth remain. The ownership of land, for instance.”

        Tell that to a few Mexican Families that still hold deeds and titles to Texas land.

        You can own as much are you can protect and defend. If nothing else government is made in such a fashion that it cleans up any points of contention. Get behind on your taxes and watch it happen before your eyes. It happens much quicker today then ever before.

        There has been few changes since the days of Abraham. Give me sons, lots of sons.

        • 45caliber


          Very few Mexican families have deeds for land in Texas that someone else has taken. I assume a few aristocratic families in Mexico can claim some but they never lived here in the first place. Peons owning land here? Not hardly. They weren’t allowed to own the land when the Mexicans controlled it.

          I know what La Raza says. But then, they can’t show any good deeds either. Their arguments are that Mexico once owned the land and it was “stolen” from Mexico. Not taken in war. They also insist that California was stolen – even though the Spanish landowners there bought it from Santa Anna. They simply insist all of it was “stolen” and that they should take over ownership of it – without paying anything for it of course.

          • Christin


            Many Mexican families DID own or reside on large plots of land. I have seen the maps with their Hispanic names on the Texas Territory at the Texas A&I University Museum, now Texas A&M Kingsville, and I have talked with a few old timers about the land decades ago.

            Texas did go to war with Santa Anna to gain this land for themselves. What happened is we asked Santa Anna from Mexico if the Americans who were moving west could settle in the Texas Territory and he said yes, as he wanted to populate this area. Texas later went to war with Dictator Santa Anna who was imposing taxes and other laws on the people of the Territory. The Mexican army was great and the Texans who fought them were few, but still the bravery and ingenuity was with the Americans. Later, the wealthy white settlers ran many of the Mexicans off and took their land.. and now the maps of South Texas have white man’s names like: Kleberg, Kenedy, Jim Wells, Brook, Willacy and a few still have Hispanic names like Nueces, Hidalgo, San Patricio, San Antonio. We did fight fair and square for this land and WON… make no mistake.

    • Kate8

      Stunned – It is a story as old as Nimrod, himself. Understanding what is behind the desire to control the world isn’t something you can fathom without having some background in ancient mythologies and scripture, and how these forces drive those who hold power.

      Once you begin the search for truth, it unveils a layer at a time. However, momentum has risen to the point where, what once took a lifetime to uncover, can now be done in a much shorter time (depending on how determined you are to know).

  • Al Hill

    Nice article Bob.
    Over the past few years (about 15) of my 76 years, I’ve become a total libertarian (lower case ‘l’). Peeling away the layers has taken most of those 15 years. I must admit, for the first 60 years, the Big Brother propaganda worked. For anyone who might be interested, can be very enlightening.

    Having peeled away a lot of layers (I’m sure there are more), the following quotes help a bit when Big Brother unloads another batch of BS.

    “All governments lie — all the time.” Can’t remember where this came
    from. And, of course, any rule will have an exception or two.

    “The purpose of government is, for those who run it, to plunder those
    who don’t.” Thomas J. DiLorenzo

    It’s people like Bob, Lew Rockwell and dozens of others that can help all of us peel away liars layers.

  • BrotherPatriot

    I have read not a single response to this clear article, Mr. Livingston. So what I say is clearly just from me.

    Good Job. I really, really enjoyed your article. I’m proud of you for writing this. Indeed, this is what people need to learn. My friends, my brothers & sisters…this has been going on now for a very long time.

    However Sir, you do only go so far w/out naming the history behind how it all came to be. I think that is very strategic. I see the wisdom in that…however, the full story needs to revealed to the public in order for them/us to have a chance to turn all of what is happening around.

    “So much wrong is being pushed as right…so much needs to be brought out into the light.” This is one of my own personal sayings as well as “One is none, two is some” which is what I was taught back in the Navy SEAL’s.

    I’m going to once again speak the link that if people wish to continue to educate themselves, they themselves can pursue this well played down knowledge for their own enlightenment.

    The Link…is the family of the Rothschilds. Though that family & all their connections into the rest of the variously named organisations that they are affiliated with who share the same Agenda isn’t spoken of…you all must know that what is being hinted at by Mr. Livingston and openly spoken of by Patriots such as myself now…is all true.

    I have been reading/watching this site for some time now as many of you well know. I’m one of those few who patron it w/responces about what really is going on behind the scenes and the fact that we have a banking cartel/elitist family all linked into a secret organization that apparently has been controlling the direction humanity has been moving now for quite some time. All of this of course is so hard to believe that it becomes surreal. But it is indeed real. Scary real. It’s also very much right in front of your face and most of you are not even aware of it. Many get angry about being told this information because they simply don’t want to believe that they don’t actually know what is going on…well, tough luck. The sooner you accept the truth then the sooner you can help become part of the cure instead of the infection.

    Though I have come to the conclusion through research for the past few years that what I have learned is true, it still blows my mind of the level & magnitude of what this covert group has managed to do. They have only managed to get this far because of one primary tool…Money. It’s international. Money affects us all…every single human being on this earth is affected by it. No matter which name it’s used by…the dollar, the yen, pounds, the euro, barter & trade system…etc., it affects us all. So by linear thinking…he who controls the money supply controls…everything else. If you control the money then you control the law makers, the law enforcers, the teachers, the farmers, the entertainment industry, the historians, the news industry, the sheriff, the…fill in the blank.

    It’s all a very simple equation.

    Don’t let all their gobbly-gook double talk derail you from looking into the ROOT level of the equation. Go to the source and once you fix it there…many, many, MANY problems will just go away. (I’m hinting at removing some Amendments that agents of these people have managed to attach to our Constitution…hint, hint).

    We as a people, as a Nation, as a united & educated front of HUMANITY can fix all of this…but not until we openly speak about the problem. We must recognize it, address it and then decisively resolve it. But nothing can be done if we continue to flail about in the dark and not stand in GOD’s light and speak the truth of what is happening.

    This is not spoken of by anyone other than people like me who are on the fringe and a very few non main stream media information outlets like Mr. Livingston’s site here. WND is another good source of possible information such as this. Alex Jones in Texas is another. This is information that the Main Stream Media (MSM) will not touch. Infact, they try to discredit these sources with slander, name calling and out right lies to help mislead you away from the truth. Due to their previous years (about 100 as Bob correctly stated above) they indeed have dumbed us down as a society into believing their lies. For example, many people actually believe we have a Democracy because that is what our polititions, media and entertainment has been saying for sometime now. We don’t…it’s a Constitutional Republic. Get it right in your brain. Also…here’s another one for ya…Columbus. What Columbus did to the natives was genocide. Nothing more, nothing less and I don’t care if it was a practice by some to take slaves in that time…not all men did so…those who where in good in heart didn’t! I no longer recognise his holiday…but that is a personal choice. Also, he was not the first to the America’s as we were taught in school. Scott Wolter has done some extensive research into what he believe’s is a land claim stone (the Kensington runestone) left by Prince Sinclair from Scottland who came over with some vikings. He also believes Columbus may have came over with a map

    Here is a link to more information about the Runestone found…also keep in mind that Snopes & Wikipedia is not your friends on touchy subjects such as this…why? Think about & research who controls them.

    Soooo…now armed with this knowledge find out who indeed are the owners of CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox news, & Hollywood. You will find it leads directly into the same people who helped fund all the major wars of the world. World War 1, World War 2 and Vietnam were all funded by them. Wait…go back farther and you’ll find that they also funded Napolean’s War. Oh, that’s right…they actually increased their capital by 20X because they at first spread lies & rumors that Napolean won…this caused the stocks to drop in Europe and they then gobbled up all they could before the truth came out that Napolean actually lost. BINGO! Europe then found itself with a new central power hub and all those who claimed foul were either silence by money, positions of power or killed. So they founded their empire with lies, deciet, and murder…and my friends…nothing has changed since. They have killed, murdered, & sacrifised millions for their causes and they will not stop until they have reshaped our entire world into the Fuedalistic state that they are pursuing. Where they are the top 1% and the rest of humanity is the cattle that feeds their every whim. This is the goal but keep in mind the Georgia Guidestones who’s first commandment is world population 500 million. There will be much, much fewer of US so it will be easier for them to control US. If you need a visual then think about this…in order for the world population to be at that level…12 out of every 13 people needs to die. (There is that #13 again…very symbolic.)

    Once you look at the world through the filter that I & others are seeing it clearly through…everything begins to make sense as to how & why things are the way they are.

    The Federal Reserve is not Federal & it’s not our Reserve. It’s a privately owned banking cartel that uses a ponzi scheme that is for profit owned by the variously named organizations that are pursuing their New World Order. They are actively seeking to destroy the sovereignity of not only America but all countries. All you have to do is look around with eyes wide open (once you get them opened to the truth) to see their finger prints on virtually everything that is going on now. You see the black & white checker board in most movies now along with their Masonic symbolism. This organization is a secret society within their secret society that has levels within itself like a tree ring has growth rings. It’s very conviluted and hard to detect (this is on purpose) yet they are right in front of our faces hiding in plain sight. They are integrated in virtually all societies and their platform is the masonic organization. I have only revealed the tip of the iceberg to you. It’s up to you to decide to research further into these truths.

    Please note, that I’m not lumping all masons into the same category. There are some really good men who are members but as noted above, like the rings of a tree they are on the outer layers of what truely lays deep down in the center and they are there on purpose. To be the human face on the inhuman moster that lies down deep in the center. This secret religion to the negative power that all true & honest people would bolt from in horror if they only knew the truth.

    There are many really good books out there on this subject but I’ll only recommend this one for now that is sold by WND…”Brotherhood of Darkness” by Dr. Stanley Montieth.

    God Bless you & I hope you begin your own personal research into the truth.

    Much is not as it seems and the world is an illusion that they have created to keep your eyes closed.

    Wake up, my brothers & sisters.

    Only GOD can save us & by us living in His light with Him.

    • Hope For American

      The Masonic Freemasons have been in existence for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Mason means to construct, build piece by piece, or change. Unfortunately, Obama’s ‘Change’ is what’s happening in the world today, for they have been slowly constructing a plan and rebuilding this Earth and people’s lives piece by piece. It was invented by Jews, but other nationalities have joined, however, other nationalities, especially the black man, were never allowed to become a Jew or call himself Jewish – he was only used to carry out their treachery. Did anyone realize that Martin Luther King was a Freemason?

      • Karolyn

        I know, and have known, Freemasons, and they’ve always been regular people. I know one right now who was in construction til he became diabled. Regular middle class guy. I have a problem with this devious portrayal of Freemasons.

        • Kate8

          karolyn – I was intended that the lower ranks of Masons have no clue about the upper degree Masons, who have all been occultists and, actually, worshipers of Lucifer/Osiris/Apollo/Nimrod. They are made up strictly of the world elite, and nearly all world rulers are and have been 30 – 33 degree Masons.

          The lower ranks of Masons believe themselves to be of high caliber, holding dear the sacred scriptures and given to works of charity. The ‘secrets’ of the 33 degree are never revealed to them, and they don’t ask.

          • BrotherPatriot

            Bingo, Kate8…thanks for answering for me.

            I hadn’t been able to get back to this article but with peeps like you, JeffH & DaveH, etc…I knew it would be looked after by a few educated that know these truths.

            Nice to see your posts, girl!

      • 45caliber


        Unless I’m mistaken, the Freemasons came about because of the Pope disbanding the Templers. The Templers were a group of knights that took holy orders to protect those travelling to and from the Holy Land during the Crusades. They were sent to Spain following the end of the Crusades and were later disbanded. That places the Freemason’s origin about 1450 AD or so.

        • Kate8

          45 – They were, originally, an elite group of master craftsmen, who understood the secrets of building and geometry. They were apart and a cut above the average people. Hence, the name FreeMasons.

          It evolved from there.

          • Jay

            Kate, have you seen this eye-opening video on royal blood-lines? Its a 10 part series comprising of 15 minutes per part. You will be SHOCKED to discover obama’s blood line!!! It’s revealed in part 5…


          • Kate8

            Jay – Thanks!

            I saved the link. Can’t wait to see it.

        • Hope For American

          Thank you, Kate, and 45caliber, because both of you are right. The lower class wasn’t allowed to know what the upper class was doing. The Freemasons is an offshot of the Knight Templer’s which was wiped out by the Pope and French. The Knight Templer’s was renamed the Freemason Society in the 1700′s by a Mr. Weisholf (don’t know exactly how to spell his name), but he was Jewish. The Knight Templer’s had everything stolen from them by the French, but some escaped with their lives and carried on the tradition many years later, hence, the Freemasons. They never did retrieve the wealth that the Pope and French stole from them.

          My personal opinion is that its an organization to get even with the world because of what the Pope and French did to them. But, hey, I’m an American, not French, so go after them and leave America out of it.

          But seriously, if that’s the case, this planet has some pretty pissed off Jews living among everyone. So pissed off that they want everything now, and think they’re entitled to everything that they lost.

          My final point to them is – GROW UP A$$HOLES! The world doesn’t owe anyone anything, and if it did I’d be a zillionnaire because I’ve been through just as much, if not more, than any single human being on this planet.

          No offense, Karolyn, but most of the comments you post are nothing but discouraging remarks to other people’s comments. Just because you have a friend who was a Freemason does not make that person a god. Know your friends well, and while you’re searching for who they are, search for the truth. The truth shall set you free.

    • Thinking About

      Every man does not meet the standards needed to be a Freemason. A small amount if research will provide you with information of our great early leaders who wrote much of the early documents of our great nation. Secretive organization indeed but very worthy. Devil worshiping is not what they do and I would say anyone proclaiming such must be very familiar with devil worshiping, uninformed or just plain liars. Don’t shake your bible in my direction and proclaim how great you are.

    • jibbs

      Great Post. But if you wish for people to “wise up” as you say, you really need to provide more than one link to help people find this information.
      Telling them to find what you did, might take way too long and it might be too late by then.

    • bob wire

      BrotherPatriot , that was some powerful piece of work. Extremely thought provoking. Some of it’s content I have been exposed to at various levels before but not so eloquently offered and hammered home.

      Thanks for sharing your tireless efforts to unearth the truth and the intent of the few that have us at each others throat.

      If their true design hasn’t been exposed after all this time, I doubt if it ever will.

      It’s hard to comprehend things not seen yet you can witness their effects but it’s by no means impossible. In that, I suppose that we can we find hope?

      Personally, I’d prefer something a little more proactive then just hope.

  • JeffH

    Here is another example of what “we the people” are subjected to by our elected officials and those that follow their orders without question.

    Politician Censors Town Hall – Police Seize Cameras
    This officer has moved from enforcing whatever laws are actually passed to just enforcing whatever the politician or his staff says. He is now a “decree-by-our-betters enforcement officer.”

    This is disturbing and disgusting. And this is a Republican politician. Don’t think for an instant that it is only the leftist politicians who consider you beneath them, and beneath their pals in the state authorized mainstream media.

    • Hope For American

      I heard about that from Alex Jones because I don’t watch the news media any more on t.v. There are Republic Progressives and Democrat Conservatives. It’s up to us to know who they are and vote the bad ones out of office.

      The town I live in police forces have been drastically cut or eliminated altogether. In one city near me it was eliminated and the state police took over because the state police were hired to protect only those in office. Do you think those people have something to hide to hire an entire ‘state’ police force just to protect them? But to hell with protecting the people. I don’t think that’s what people’s money was supposed to be used for. But allow me to put it another way – we have actually paid those RATS to enslave us.

    • DaveH

      We the citizens have too long let the Government officials use the weak excuse of “security reasons” to stifle us from recording their actions. If we can view it with our own eyes, then we can record what we viewed with our own eyes.
      Imagine that, coming from a Government who has we the citizens under constant surveillance? The security reasons they cite are not to protect the citizens, but rather to protect the out-of-control Government officials.
      If indeed, that officers reasons were valid, then the citizens should, at the least, have full access to all of the footage that was shot “legally” at the meeting.

    • Raggs

      Yup this piece-o-scum will not answer is phone or e-mail.
      I left him a juciy message.

  • DaveH

    Canada’s getting smarter (mostly). Can we learn from them?

  • Ronald Johnston

    What the yellow bellied liberals are doing to us is nothing short of criminal. We should be going after them with everything we have! When the country melts down, we will be going after them!

    • bob wire

      Oh boy! Who let you out of your cell? Let’s get back where we are safe from all these liberals roaming about, what ya say? It not safe for you to be out.

  • Old Henry

    I realize that the focus of Bob’s article is to correlate Prima Facie and the Fed, but it can also be readily applied to 2008.
    Little Barry the communist Muslim Kenyan slithering his way into OUR White House us another prime example of Prima Facie.
    “However, inquiring beneath the first layer, or prima facie, brings us closer to reality and truth. The more layers peeled back and the more inquiry we make, the closer we come to reality.”
    “This is why propaganda is so effective against a population. It is human nature to see, hear and translate without inquiry or without question.”
    And this is what is happening with Joseph Farah’s and James Corzi’s investigation of Little Barry Soetoro is beginning to do. The layers are coming off. However, as reported in WND last week a lot of the information that has been discovered on data bases that show possible criminal activity by Soetoro / Obama / Bourn is now mysteriously being scrubbed – in preparation for 2012??

    Orli Taetz is also slowly pealing back the layers. The communist in OUR White House is perhaps an even greater fraud perpetrated on the country than the Federal Reserve.

    “We are out of time because governments in their last days engage in all kinds of tyranny and oppression under high-sounding and “patriotic” terms. Be warned and beware. As confidence collapses, aggression against the population intensifies.”
    Think Homeland Security / TSA. Now there are two very Hitleresque agencies.

  • chuckb

    an insight i think we probably already know:

  • Mad Max

    That’s right. We’ve been tought and trained to be suckers. But it doesn’t mean it has to stay that way.

    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( )

    We don’t have to live like this anymore. “Spread the News”

    • JeffH

      “We’ve been tought and trained to be suckers”

      Well folks, it’s happening again! Imagine! A federal entity set up to rebuild lower Manhattan giving tax money to a mosque designed to teach Sharia Law. That’s right!

      The ground zero mosque, called Park 51, has applied for a $5 million grant of federal funds from the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation. The Corporation, set up to rebuild lower Manhattan after 9-11 is actively considering the grant request.

      Join Americans Across the Country Who Don’t Want their Tax Dollars Funding a Mosque at Ground Zero!

      We the undersigned strongly urge the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation to refuse to give funding to the planned mosque near the Ground Zero site of the World Trade Center. The mosque will teach Shariah law, and its location is an insult to all Americans – especially those who lost loved ones on 9-11. To use our tax dollars to subsidize this insult just compounds the affront to our sensibilities.

      sign the petition @:

    • JeffH

      Mad Max, thanks for the link. I briefly took a look and bookmarked it.

    • JeffH

      Declaration of Dissolution and Termination

      When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for the people to dissolve and terminate the political bands which have connected them to their government. They have a duty and the right to assume and reassert their supreme power over themselves and government. A decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel the separation by means of Dissolution and Termination.

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that…
      “whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government”,…
      laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness

  • Raggs

    Is it only me or… This election ( if you want to call it that ) will be the final factor or a new chapter for America?
    You can categorizes the final factor in terms of the downfall of this nation by the re-election of oblama.
    Likewise the new chapter will be the complete opposite and the re-establishment of our consititution and our laws.

    • JeffH

      Raggs, we are involved in what I consider to be the most historic moment in modern American history of the 20th and 21st century. Call it the American Revolution II, to be fought by intellgent, resourcefull and non-violent American Patriots.

      • Raggs

        How true… But can anyone be sure that this is not going to be a very ugly situation? From what I have heard and read the demoncrats are in the hopes of a violent revolt to conquer… So be it if that is what they wish for… I dont advocate violence but if violence finds me.. well…

        • JeffH

          I think American Patriots are prepared to fight if attacked.

  • chuckb

    just checked out the revolution2.06, sounds kind of weird to me, i’ll stand with the tea perty. if a revolution starts, it won’t be by crack pots, it will be by the american citizens who are fed up with the likes of the bolshevik party and i doubt it will be violent. maybe a march on washington demanding the crooks evacuate the white house.
    the taxpayers are being took for a ride by this con man acting as the president. check out his cabinent, the travel office, no wonder barry and michele are visiting the most expensive places in the world.
    maybe the bleeding hearts will check a little deeper nest time.

    • Jay

      chuckb, you need to check this out! Its a 10 part series on royal blood lines. Each part approximately 15 minutes in length. In part 5, obama’s blood line is revealed. It will confirm your suspicions that you had all along!

  • Jay

    When Betsy Ross sat down with George Washington, Robert Morris and George Ross in 1776. The four discussed Betsy sewing together the first American flag, and shortly thereafter the Star Spangled Banner was born.

    Today the ghost of Betsy Ross is restless as America’s flag is being sewn overseas and then imported to the United States. China is the last Communist giant, and was once a sworn enemy of America yet they lead the world in exporting the Stars and Stripes.

    In 2003 the US imported six million dollars worth of flags from the rest of the world with the Chinese contributing $4.5 million to the imports. Another statistic of interest is that in 2001 flag imports topped out at $51.7 million with $29.7 million coming from the Chinese. In the four weeks following the tragedy of September 11th 2001 the US imported $34.8 million worth of American flags.

    A question arises. Why is the United States allowing something so sacred to be produced by foreign nations? It is bad enough that American businesses are taking American jobs overseas but must we pledge an allegiance to the flag made in China?

  • Jay

    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious.
    But it cannot survive treason from within.

    An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.

    For the traitor appears not a traitor, he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist.

    A murderer is less to fear.

    Marcus Tullius Cicero
    Roman orator, statesman 42 B.C.

  • Jay

    Make this go Viral!

    Details from part 2 There is an event coming in the very near-term future
    that is going to effect the USA to its very soul, former Kansas State Trooper Greg
    Everson of The Heartland USA and former host of Republic Broadcasting Voices from the
    Heartland told host Steve Quayle in a special two hour Survive 2 Thrive broadcast Thursday.

    What is being planned and what is coming together is a perfect storm
    brewing right over our heads. Everson cited verifiable information confirmed by an
    active duty US Air Force Colonel, three chiefs of Police, a local Sheriff, State
    Troopers in 3 neighboring Midwest states and a Federal agent he has known for twenty years.

    There is being made an effort to bring together the Armed Forces of this
    Nation in preparation for responding to and acting against the interests of our
    Citizens, Everson said. Such efforts include actions that will be so deep and
    penetrating that the United States will never be the same.

    Everson explained that the deteriorating economy combined with Federal Reserve theft of trillions unaccounted for has had a devastating effect on Americans who had have enough and the US Military
    expects will respond by defending what little they have left.

    The American people have reached the point of total saturation due to the failure of Government to
    protect its borders, corruption and theft. Everson expects that such a response has
    been projected by US Government computer models and believes NORTHCOM, DHS and state
    and local authorities will begin implementation of Operation Garden Plot and Martial
    Law within 45-60 days. Civil war is precisely what this administration wants to
    happen, said Everson. And before Americans can organize themselves they will be
    destroyed by their own military.–Armed-Forces-To-Mo-1713903

  • chuckb

    jay, that’s quite a series of genealogy, however, i think tying bloodlines from arabs to barry soetoro is really stretching the facts, his bloodlines may come from some primeval tribe of baboons. his father or the one confessed to be sure doesn’t look to me like he has anything other than black african heritage. adopting an islamic name is very popular amongst the black muslims.
    quite an interesting video though.

  • Hope For American

    The government is nothing but organized crime and the further I search for information, the more I learn just how corrupt they really are. I was watching a CD last night and I became outraged over what I was witnessing. Our governement, both state and federal are very wealthy, but yet they’ve been cutting vital programs and services for the puplic as if the feds are broke. They’ve been investing our money in stocks for the past 70 years and Florida has enough investments, that state alone is capable of paying off the entire national debt and then have some left over.

    People, we’ve been scammed again, and don’t let Obama, your governor, nor senator tell you there isn’t enough money to pay for schools, police, fire, infrastructure, or a south border to keep invaders out. Our government has grown into a corporation, and corporations sell assets when they’re broke, just as our own government has been lying to us and selling what’s rightfully ours that we built and paid for.

    Everyone needs to go to their local municipality, and state capital and request a copt of their financial and investment reports. I’m going to because I’m sick and tired of being lied to and treated like a helpless two year old child and only the big government can decide what’s right for me.

    I remember reading an article about Obama sitting in a room with his fellow progressives and bragging, ‘We’re not even half way there yet.’ Well, by hell, Americans have just begun and you and your fellow hypocrits have underrated us Mr. Obama. We are not handing over our country to a bunch of insane, lying, thieving, corrupt, treasonous thugs that we hired to do the opposite of what you’re doing, and enough is enough. We will stand together and fight for our country, and you, as a faux president need to resign along with your co-

    Sorry, fellow patriots, but I’m pissed. God gave me a brain, the governement didn’t, and I intend to use it.

    If anyone reads this please get the word out so they too can discover exactly what their employees have been doing to them.

  • bob wire

    I believe government to be more like “disorganized crime”

    organized crime is efficient and effective.

  • AJ

    Oh our government is very organized! One’s view is based on ones interpretation of what’s going on. If one understands the agenda being played out one realizes they are very organized.

  • Hope For American

    How true, Bob, but they’ve organized it enough to hide it from the people, or so they thought. Actually, it’s a collective ‘corporation’ filled with bufoons and bugaboos who think we’re the idiots or bufoons and we aren’t intelligent enough to search for the truth. Their piggy banks are overflowing and don’t let them tell you otherwise, and not only lies have been coming out of their a$$e$, but the money has been flowing out too. Let us not forget that they are our employees – not employers.

  • SC Murf

    Here are a couple of Jewish brothers that believe in Jesus and they take a good look at scripture. Very interesting reading, very eye opening.
    please try it

    up the hill

  • SC Murf

    ya I got a 13

    up the hill

  • GreatExpection

    The coming Revolution will these criminals in high finance and places — Extermination! It will come soon enough … by the people, for the people … against the doomed Big Money Elites! The head of the banking snake is in London; this is the continuing and stealthy British Empire by proxy(using and corrupting the US power); to solve this world problem is the cut the head of the banking snake — Get rid of the British Monarchy, nobility, aristocracy …. spreading around the world as an evil stealthy syndicate. Look at millionaires in our Congress…. working for Wall Street and Corporations. Revolution and Extermination are a-coming!

    • GreatExpection

      ….will “doom”

    • Hope For American

      The coming of the Revolution is already here. It has been a game with the elite, to watch them (the little guy) fall, for we have taken all we need from them. We shall control the world.

      That is the mindset of your elected officials, and anyone who think’s I’m wrong should quit seeing their phych.

      Our children have been forced to take mind-altering drugs. Our foods are poisoned with chemicals. Our water isn’t safe enough for the mice that Al Gore and Maurice Strong have paid scientist to say it’s safe.

      Our police officer’s who took an oath to protect the people will lose their jobs if they don’t harass citizens enough to bring in enough revenue to fatten the judge’s retirement.

      And, last but not least, ‘America’, your country Mr. Obama has been criticized by the very people you have working for you. Our representatives are supposed to represent the people – employers – and not the employees – which is YOU.

      If I were Barack Obama, and his free spending half, I’d Leave the country, or hide in a bunker, because that’s what it’s coming to. Read our lips Michele ‘We were always proud of this country. Why did it take you to say those words just because the elite appointed your husband to be president?’

      Sorry – got carried away. Had a dental appointment today. But my tooth was numbed, and not my brain.

  • BrotherPatriot

    Greetings everyone…thought I would leave off with a link to an amazing man.

    His name is Nigel Farage.

    Research him if you want to learn what a Patriot of the World can do!

    God Bless & keep him safe from the social degenerates who want to silence him from speaking the Truth!

    The banking ponzi scheme is going to collapse & perhaps…perhaps then America & the rest of the world might have a chance to be the Nations they always wanted to be! Let’s cast aside the banking cartel’s chains of bondage & call them for what they are! Crooks, cheats, liars, murderer’s, leeches…VILLAINS!

    They have perpetrated massive crimes against humanity and one day we will force them to PAY!

    Yol Bolsun!

  • newspooner

    Any discussion of the political fraud regarding “global warming” needs to start with quantitative facts (still basically estimates) about decaying vegetable and animal matter. It dwarfs everything else. And it is natural.

  • Michael P.

    You are NOT telling the truth about Lincoln. He gave us the first income tax, US Notes were the forerunners of Federal Reserve Notes, both of which are worthless.

  • Tom

    If our money will be worthless what do we do with the money we now have???

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Tom,

      Buy gold and silver. Buy pre-1965 silver coins.

      Best wishes,

  • Mark Are

    From the book, Miracle on Main Street…written in 1984…

    Chapter 1 -
    The Gathering Tragedy

    Blood running in the streets. Mobs of rioters and demonstrators threatening banks and legislators. Looting of shop and home. Credit ruined. Strike and unemployment. Trade and distribution paralyzed. Shortages of food. Bankruptcies everywhere. Court dockets overloaded. Kidnappings for heavy ransom. Sexual perversion, drunkenness, lawlessness rampant…

    One distinguished politician writes to another: “The wheels of government are clogged, and we are descending into the vale of confusion and darkness. No day was every more clouded then the present. We are fast verging to anarchy and confusion.”

    Where, when and whom? Get ready for a shock: AMERICA, 1786, ten years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence. The correspondence was from George Washington to James Madison. On February 3rd, 1787, Washington wrote to Henry Knox: “If a person had told me that we there would have been such formidable rebellion as exists, I would have thought him fit for a madhouse.”

    What went wrong? What forced this noble new country into conditions far worse than the tyranny against which it had declared its independence in the first place? The history books tell us it was a complicated variety of interrelated things, but reality tells us it was only one: the money issued by the Continental Congress and the states banking houses was paper that could not be redeemed for gold or silver coin. Inflation, that was what had sunk George Washington to the depths of despair.

    The paper currency of the Congress was printed in such exorbitant amounts (in relation to the precious metals they represented) that wages and prices skyrocketed, forcing the Legislature to enact harsh wage and price controls. When these failed, moral-sounding laws reeking of piety and patriotism were enacted in an attempt to chain the people under penalty of violence to the government’s absurd money:

    If any person shall hereafter be so lost to all virtue and regard for his Country as to refuse to accept its notes, such person shall be deemed an enemy of his Country. 1



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