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Police Misconduct: In Indiana You Can Shoot Back

June 8, 2012 by  

Police Misconduct: In Indiana You Can Shoot Back
PHOTOS.COM
America is becoming a police state.

You probably don’t need to be reminded that America is becoming a police state. Reports of police misconduct throughout the country are consistently on the rise. But the questions remain: Why isn’t the public outraged and why aren’t elected officials moving to quell police misconduct?

Here are some of the most recent examples of jackboot cops abusing their authority:

♦ In New York City, it is likely not uncommon for innocent bystanders to be punched in the throat by members of Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s “personal army” — the New York Police Department. But, New York’s finest probably don’t often screw up and do it to one of New York’s honorables.

From Wednesday’s New York Times:

Thomas D. Raffaele, a 69-year-old justice of the New York State Supreme Court, encountered a chaotic scene while walking down a Queens street with a friend: Two uniformed police officers stood over a shirtless man lying facedown on the pavement. The man’s hands were cuffed behind his back and he was screaming. A crowd jeered at the officers.

The judge, concerned the crowd was becoming unruly, called 911 and reported that the officers needed help.

But within minutes, he said, one of the two officers became enraged – and the judge became his target. The officer screamed and cursed at the onlookers, some of whom were complaining about what they said was his violent treatment of the suspect, and then he focused on Justice Raffaele, who was wearing a T-shirt and jeans. The judge said the officer rushed forward and, using the upper edge of his hand, delivered a sharp blow to the judge’s throat that was like what he learned when he was trained in hand-to-hand combat in the Army.

Note to New York City judges: Wear your robes at all times; it may be the only way to keep from being beat down with the rest of the proles.

♦ Often, people complain that “walking while black” still raises suspicion from law enforcement. Well, in Louisiana it appears that showing up at a GOP event while supporting Ron Paul will also earn you a beat down. At least that’s what allegedly happened to Henry Herford, a Louisiana GOP Chairman and Paul supporter who got kicked out of the State convention and arrested by Shreveport police after  calling to order a re-formed convention approved by duly elected Paul delegates.

See for yourself:

Herford, who reportedly was fitted recently with a prosthetic hip, appears to be well into middle age — not exactly what one would picture when he hears Republicans complain about the raucous, rude and unkempt young Paul supporters who keep “ruining” their conventions.

The guy recording the first video wasn’t driving a car — if you couldn’t tell — so what does the cop need his driver’s license for? Maybe it was an intimidation tactic to encourage the man to hand over the “evidence” on his phone? After all, it did contain video proof that at least four officers joined in taking down a man who repeatedly complained of a hip injury and who appears to be trying only to avoid falling to the ground.

♦ When police tell you that you better be sure that you tell them the truth, they know from experience that even cops lie to cops. Anthony Gerardi Jr., a 24-year veteran of the Fairfield Police Department in New Jersey, lied to cops after the friends he was hanging out with — members of the Hells Angels motorcycle gang — hit a man in the back of the head with a beer mug and then tried to punch his wife in the face. According to NJ.com, he is resigning from his job. Maybe he can get a gig with the Angels.

♦ In New York City, cops stop and frisk at will. In Aurora, Colo., they don’t even bother with frisking if a crime has been committed; they just cuff random people. But rest assured, these illegal detention tactics aren’t used unless they have “virtual certainty” (whatever that means) that the suspect is nearby.

Some police in Indiana are upset over an National Rifle Association-backed law that recently went into effect in that State that allows individuals to shoot police in response to the “unlawful intrusion” by a “public servant” to protect themselves and others, or their property. According to a report on Cleveland.com police departments in the State — the first in the Nation to enact such legislation — are changing the way they operate to avoid situations that may leave innocent citizens feeling threatened by law officers. But given the frequency of law enforcement abuses of power throughout the country, some people may argue that other States should pursue similar legislation.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • GALT

    The Second Article of the Bill of Rights is not now, nor ever has been about hunting or defending yourself against criminal elements, these activities were essentially “self evident” at the time. It is about your RIGHT, to defend yourself against authority,,,or to be even more blunt, to shoot cops when they are in violation of their “oaths” or following
    orders which violate their “oaths”………and since the Supreme Court has determined that the police have no obligation to protect anyone, and are rarely ever in position to do so anyway, they no longer need to be provided with any weapon that could be considered
    lethal. ( unfortunately, it seems to have become a general rule that these supposed law enforcement officers consider every encounter with a civilian a life threatening situation )

    The root of this problem goes back to the unfortunate and erroneous belief that the Supreme Court has the power to “interpret” the Constitution……and that THIS is indeed its PRIMARY function……….and if this CLAIM is indeed true, then it should clearly stated in Article Three…..it is NOT.

    What makes this claim even more suspect are the conditions under which laws ( statutes ) are deemed “unconstitutional”……..and one of these elements is “clarity”….the law must be
    clearly understood…….if it is vague as to intent, it is void……or put another way, if a statute requires interpretation as to what it means, it is “unconstitutional” by that fact alone.

    If we then take this principle and apply it to the Constitution, any element of that document which would require interpretation would also make it void, or unconstitutional, which by definition it can not be.

    Therefor the power of the Supreme Court and its primary function is to APPLY the Constitution, to all cases subject to its “jurisdiction”.

    If we know nothing else, we know for certain that things have strayed quite a long way
    from where we began……….our present battle is to regain control of what we have lost, and this victory is by no means certain……..but along the way, we do have the opportunity to examine both how we drifted off course, as well as, determining how the alteration
    of the original balance that was sought can be re-introduced to achieve the intended equilibrium.

    • rocketride

      It seems that these bozos (by which I mean the thugs AND their bosses) have forgotten that they are trying to operate in a country where something like half of the households have at least one legally owned firearm. (Most of the reasonable estimates seem to be between 40-60%.) Of course most of the abuses seem to be happening in big cities where the gun-grabbers have been that number doesn’t hold. Hmmmm. I wonder if there’s a connection. (BTW that was a rhetorical question.) The other implication is that, out in the countryside, the odds of someone (or everyone) in a household being a legal gun owner are rather better than that 40-60%

      Just remember there will, sooner or later, be an accounting and “Ve vas chust followink orders.” hasn’t been a viable defense at least since Nuremburg. As far as I am concerned, “police” executing a “no-knock” warrant or anything issued under the auspices of the USAPATRIOT act are morally on par with the KGB or Gestapo and are fair game.

      • vicki

        “( unfortunately, it seems to have become a general rule that these supposed law enforcement officers consider every encounter with a civilian a life threatening situation )”

        That is because of the war on (some) drugs. With the entire country a battlefield, now made plain in NDAA 2012, how could they think anything different?.

    • ernest

      GALT; great responce, we agee with every word.

    • Erik

      Must you be so long winded? It seems you like to toot your own horn!

      • Buster the Anatolian

        Gal t certainly is quite adept at putting many words on ‘paper”. One would suspect he is getting paid by the word for his posts.

      • GALT

        I wasn’t aware that this site forced some people to read every word by every poster……or worse, compelled them to respond……….

    • independant thinker

      “The Second Article of the Bill of Rights is not now, nor ever has been about hunting or defending yourself against criminal elements, these activities were essentially “self evident” at the time. It is about your RIGHT, to defend yourself against authority,,,”

      You are wrong Galt. The authors of the bill of rights including the second amendment were certainly aware of the use/need of firearms for hunting, self defence, and the most important one protecting ones self from, as you say, authority. Since the were aware of all three (even you admit they were) all three are included in our right to keep and bear arms as stated in the second amendment.

      • GALT

        A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      • vicki

        You are both right (or wrong if you prefer). The reason given in the 2nd is to insure that citizens had the power to repel those who would try to oppress them. However it is clear by their writings that the founders meant ANY who would try to oppress. Be it the single mugger, a gang, the city, county or state government, the federal government, the rest of the warring tribes of the world.

        Hunting for food was a given. It was so self evident that they had little need to mention it.

      • GALT

        Thank you vicki for attempting to be diplomatic, unfortunately it doesn’t help and it is not accurate…….I used the term self evident, because the use of firearms, or any other tool for the purposes of “survival”, would qualify.

        The Bill of Rights has a specific purpose, whose intent is to identify specific rights which would or might be subject to infringement by government……….or if you like, when government itself becomes the criminal…….and this is clearly seen in Articles 9 and 10.

        When it is the government that is the criminal, the threat presents a situation that is unique from and defies comparison with any other…….for two specific reasons.

        1.) Criminal activity by the government is conducted with the appearance of legitimacy.

        2.) When the government IS the criminal, one is subjected to a system of judgement, also
        controlled by the CRIMINAL. When government is the authority one is forced to appeal to for redress of grievances, and the CAUSE of those grievances, the probability of obtaining
        anything resembling justice, is zero.

      • Soldier of Fortune

        I do beleive that Galt means the Second Amendment, not the second Article. Article 2 of the U.S. Constitution defines and decribes the executive branch of the Federal Government. There are only 7 articles in the Constitution, so any reference to article 9 and 10 is meaningless, unless he actually means Amendments 9 and 10.
        The difference between the terms ‘article’ and ‘amendment’ may not seem significant to the casual reader, but in the context of making arguments based on the constitution it is important to maintian accuracy.

  • T. Jefferson

    Illegal action and abuse of citizens rights should be met with force. Law enforcement personnel do not have the right to randomly detain a person without probable cause. An innocent person being abused by law enforcement personnel have the right to defend themselves.

    • AZ-Ike

      Tell THAT to the TSA!

  • Steve

    Let me know how many people survive after defending themselves against cops abusing their power.

    • Michael

      Steve;
      I suspect the numbers of civilians surviving an armed encounter with the jack booted thugs who call themselves cops is about the same as those who resist the Mexican drug cartels’ hit men. Come to think of it, both are getting to be about the same.

    • Jeff

      Let me know how long America, freedom and liberty last without standing up to the tyranny of unchallenged power.

      • http://aol Brooxsie

        in columbia city in ind police, sherriff & the health department have joined together to steal peoples homes I contacted every GOV OFFICE & was told they couldn’t [I have pictures] not 1 lawyer would help us they fordged court papers they lied to GOV HEADS & TO CHURCHES ETC I called the mayor the news [all] but they called them when I went to file so I could prove they lied the head sherriff came charging out screaming that I had NO RIGHTS they harressed us day & night when it was learned I had pictures our car was burned up my husband is half paralized yet after I finally got into court they RAN US OUT OF TOWN [we couldv'e been off the street the 1st month] WE’RE STILL HOMELESS I haven’t given up & there’s lots more to this story but the media covers for them IS EVERYONE AFRAID OF THEM I never dreamed I’d say this but yes it’s looking like the little people need to to stand up again the liberties & rights were written for the poor because the rich can buy their gone & the rich were robbing the poor of everything it’s $800 just to walk into a lawyers so what do I go without a roof food medicine our bills were paid but thanks to a banks help someone was provided with a means to steal peoples homes & belongings I even wrote it on my car & dared them to take a lie detector test so when does all the crime within those we elected stop THEY TOOK AN OATH TO PROTECT & DEFEND US when does the panel hold them accountable when can I sleep in peace & without fear that I have to move or leave town NO CAR or [go to jail] end whose next I know some of them had very little children & other cops were there when the sherriff came charging out I was told OPEN YOUR MOUTH & GO TO JAIL LEAVE OR GO TO JAIL why aren’t they in jail

    • FreedomFighter

      Resistance is not futile.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

    • GALT

      That question would seem to be somewhat rhetorical, Steve………

      A more interesting question might be: Under what circumstances can police be relied upon
      NOT TO ABUSE their power?

      This question is posed in the sense of normal police function that most people believe ro have come to accept as legitimate under admiralty and maritime, rather than that under ( common ) law and equity, where very little of what they do is legitimate or lawful.

  • roger gunderson

    Again, it’s more about our legislators then about our police. Our legislators are letting the police get away with anything. Why? I would guess it’s about elections. ” tough on crime” seems to get them elected. It’s also about money. The more stops, the more tickets, the more money the states or counties get. In my eyes, our legislators are 99% of all our problems.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest James L Smith

      We should remember that the so called conservative justices on the superme court are the ones guilty of creating a police state, they give them everything they ask for like no knock searches, thaking personal property without due process and the list goes on and on.

  • LTCB

    Ya gotta love those old dead guys with the wigs. Seems they weren’t that “arcane” after all. Seems they knew all about “beat downs” in their homes by unruly “officers of the court” and British troops. Then there were the pesky “native Americans” (my crowd). Personally, I love what America tries to be. I’m just not too fond of some things it has become.

    • Eric siverson gordy@fedtel.net

      I know what you are talking about The constitution is our best guide . sometimes it takes a hundred yrs to take hold . Its just that we are such sinners and so ladden with corruption . The constitution and the democracy is only possible with a moral society . People have to think and the majority has to be in favor of justice and the golden rule . I hope this is still case .

      • Joe H

        Eric,
        Yes, By all means, the constitution IS our best guide. THAT is why Ron Paul has my utmost support!!!

  • http://personallibertydigest 1911man

    I say good for the people of IN. I would hope all states pass similar laws,maybe that will keep some of this abuse of power from continueing to be common practice.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Marilyn Smith

      If you want the law that is in Indiana to be passed in all states JOIN the NRA. Pay your dues and then vote for gun rights honoring legislators and Presidential candidates. Talk is not only cheap it is useless if not backed up with ACTION.

      • Robert

        Don’t forget, “G O A, Gun Owners of America” . They are even stronger in the area of “No Compromise” when it comes to our 2nd Amendment Rights. I belong to both. If you love freedom, so should you.

      • Joe H

        Amen to the GOA!! Actually, I’m a member of both!

  • DANDY320

    I REALLY MISS THE FREE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

  • Fox

    Move to Indiana. This article is accurate. We now have the so-called “Castle Doctrine” in effect.

  • http://yahoo bob peters

    Very good law indiana! Hope evcery state adopts it! My home is my castle,my kids are my fortune..If anyone including the so called cops enter without permission will be leaving my home in a body bag! thank you
    1

  • kategray

    I LOVE IT maybe they will think twice about how they handle people as they work for us.

  • RJS

    So you really think that showing a few examples of questionable actions or poor arrests out of tens of thousands of arrests that are made every single day is going to give you an excuse to resist or kill a law enforcement officer performing their duties? They are required to arrest people for whom they have probable cause that they believe have broken a law whether that person believes that are innocent or not. And yet every single person in jail will tell you that they should not be there, just ask them. Resistance to an arrest will be met with a higher level of force needed to overcome that level of resistance. Resistance will not stop an arrest. You are naïve to believe an arrest will be avoided by resisting arrest. Resistance will escalate the force response of law-enforcement. The higher the level of resistance, the higher the level of force that will be used,as needed, to overcome that level of resistance encountered. If that means additional officers, guns, canines, SWAT teams, tasers, pepper spray, or whatever it takes is needed, then that is what will be used to affect an arrest, whether you believe you’re innocent or not. If you want to resist arrest and ‘ride the lightning’ from a taser, I can tell you that it is not a pleasant experience and don’t recommend it. If you believe you can resist an officer with deadly force, then you need to know that you will be met with deadly force.

    The world is full of evil and bad people and criminals. It is law-enforcement’s job to remove them from society so that they can’t harm you and other good people. It is not an easy job and laws and views like this just make it harder. Many people resist arrest now as it is and feel that they should not be going to jail and I have had to fight for my very life many times in order to protect society and make these difficult arrests. You have not thought this through fully. In the end, every single time, I go home at night and the bad man goes to jail (or the morgue or the hospital if he so chooses). The end.

    • http://jeffy1951.wordpress.com jeffy1951

      Nobody is disputing the difficulty of the job at times. The problem is the escalating number of instances when force is used unnecessarily, instances when police get angry at people who exercise their right to record arrests or other activity and confiscate or break their cellphones or people who question the legality of asking and then demanding I.D. from people who are not suspects in a crime and the rising number of abuses which have been well documented. The rising number of incidents such as the pepper-spraying of the students at UC Davis and the Occupy movements across the country.

      • vicki

        If you want to see some wonderful examples of abuse of power just watch a few episodes of “cops” when they are focusing on drugs. Or go to youtube and search for same or examples of no-knock warrants.

    • cayuga 333

      Abuse of power needs to be met in kind. No doubt RJS sounds like good police officer and appears to be conscientious about his duties. There are those in every profession who stretch the limits of their ability and authority-law enforcement included! These are the ones that need to be careful as we are watching, recording and reporting. Don’t tread on me!

    • siberian

      I agree with most of what you say. I was born 1926 so I believe I have seen a good deal of society. Worked S.Bronx for telephone company to Greenwich Conn. You do your job correctly and it is negated by the judicial system. If it were me I would be very frustrated. God Bless you and protect you.

    • http://google gary gerke

      In the end, there will be a revolution, or at the very least an armed conflict with the abusers of power. The gun owners in the US out number the police and the military by millions, if the government keeps taking our rights away and law enforcement keeps abusing it’s powers there will be rivers of blood in the streets nationwide.

    • Eric siverson gordy@fedtel.net

      As a law enfocement officer , just how often do you guys look at the constitution or the bill of rights . I think the constitution and the bill of rights should be memorized by all police officers . and they should be able to recite much of it from memory . I had a gamewarden shooting at me and my dog when we were moving cattle . I went and talked to him .He pionted the gun at the dog said he could shoot that dog and there would be nothing I could do about it . If he had I think I would have shot his tires off and burntup his truck . becuase he said deer were also being chased . Seems we have a lot of confusing laws too . My blind neihbor ladies dog turned up dead on my farm .I think he was shoot by some law enforcement officer too . So you should be able to understand why Indiania would pass such a law . Its not to make your job harder . I think reading the constitution and following at little better , might even make your job easier .

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Marilyn Smith

      Have you even thought about how what you just said sounded? A person in this country is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. If he already knows the cop is going to be believed over him (which he is) he sometimes feels he has no other choice than to resist. According to your statement no negotiation or cooling off period is required. If the cop says someone is a suspect, and the person resists, ANY amount of force is perfectly alright. The reason we even have a United States of America is because our founders wrote a Declaration of Independence to free us from TYRANNY and then fought to the death to give us freedom from this kind of mindset. If cops did their jobs without thinking that little tin star gives them the right to treat people as if they were nothing then we would seldom ever give them any reason for force.

    • http://www.facebook.com/chris.byers.1293 Chris Byers

      WHile I Understand what you are saying, and that is no matter what you (the police) will win a conflict, you are also showing the mentality of the police in the United States.
      This is a mentality of police are going to do as they want, and we as citizens had better fall in line!
      What kind of mentality is that?

      One small example of just how corrupt the police/court system is; I was sent a ticket for speeding from a camera. The situation was one I remembered, as I saw the photo van and checked my speed, within the limit, and also noticed the vehicle in the next lane over, overtaking me.
      My right as a citizen was to have both of the photos, they were required to have one of you coming and going, but I had a very hard time getting both of the photos. It was simple why, they only had the one of me coming, not going!
      In court I asked why they only had one of the officer? He stated the second photo was done in a predictive manner, it figured where you were going to be based on your speed, yet the only vehicle in the second photo was the other car.
      When I askes why that was? He answered, only the inside lane could be monitored accurately and I must have cheated!
      How do you cheat driving a 4,000 pound vehicle???
      Needless to say, the judge found me quilty and I paid my fine. When I asked why nothing I had shown mattered, I was told by the judge it was because the officer said I was quilty!!

      There are plenty of reasons to distrusted the Police and Justice system and sadly your comments do nothing to make a person more trusting of either. Placing threats online about what will happen to anyone that dares to question authority, only shows the lack of compasion and sense we as citizens are faced with every day.

      Yes, there are plenty of bad people out there, but there are many more good people out there, people increasingly fearful of the current Police State Mentality!

    • sean harvell

      Personally I’d rather see a crook behind me than a cop, at least you know where you stand with a crook…. But what the hay, there’s a only a fine hair separating you cops from the crooks anyway

  • leatherneck

    RJS, “Police officers” don’t fall from heaven they are citizens of the community on the payroll of the people. Police officers are not elite, they have citizens arrest power like every member of your community you work for, but you are bonded and sworn with special weapon training that’s it. You are falling under a delusion if you think you have any power without the full consent of the “people”. The moment a small portion of the population feel mistreated by those they’ve hired such as yourself your job will be untenable.

  • TWS Arch Angel

    How many of those 10′s of thousands of arrests are due to a failed policy of drug prohibition?
    http://www.leap.cc

  • Steve E

    Perhaps we need a citizens militia chosen by the community to police the police.

  • Michael D. Howard

    Lamentations 5: (1)Remember, O Lord, what has happened to us; look and see our disgrace.(2) Our inheritance has been turned over to aliens, our home to foreigners Slaves (some versions use the world servant) rule over us and there is known to free us from their hands.

    Does this remind anyone of anything? When the thing happened in Aurora Colorado (mass /detention/arrest of citizens including small children on June 2 this year no mass protest on the part of citizens of the United States. Make no mistake crime is a real thing and rampant. Just look at Congress and the banks.

    Verse 7 says “…our fathers have sinned and are no more and we bare their punishment.” To me that means we voted our situation by continuing to vote in what we sometimes call the lesser of two evils. Not good. The Current situation is like having the Party of the Anti Christ verses the Godless Heathen. Some choice? You can decide which is which. However Ezekiel 18th chapter in verse 3” “…It is the soul who sins that will surely die.”

    We can restore our Republic and the police will become servants again and not become Nazi storm troopers when we stop sinning. That is stop voting for evil people (wolves in sheep clothing and who are so embolden now by our sins they don’t even bother to put on the custom).

    Pray before you vote and please use your God give gift of discernment. Remember a tree is known by its fruit. Just listen to the way people talk and act. Use biblical and or Spiritual (based on Goodness/Righteousness) standards to judge (and you are given the right to judge so don’t pay attention to the New Age religions). God speech coupled with Godly actions. In that why you know who the Enemy is and will not vote them in office, employee them or follow them and associate with them.

  • RS

    Okay, I will bite just one last time.
    Jeff1951:
    Video all you want, we have them in all of our cars now anyway and in our Tasers and there is a new one out that fits like a blue tooth device on your sunglasses /protective devices. Soon everything will be taped anyway. I look at it as protection for me and my cases anyway and love video. I can’t wait until everything is recorded all during an officer’s shift. It is close now. Rising number of abuses? I have seen a huge decline actually in my over 30 year career. Also, our agency policy (that I drafted as a Use of Force Instructor) clearly states that during organized protests where the only resistance encountered is passive and failure to comply is restraints (handcuffs) and ambulance gurneys only (mandatory and actually for to save the officer’s backs from injury from the ‘dead weight’ protestors). We are governed by those we govern and that is all the courts will accept. On a ‘one on one’ non mass protest passive resistance, pepper spray is an allowed option though. Passive resistance is verbal only where no threat is involved and ‘dead weight’ type resistance.
    Cayuga333:
    It is more a case of enforcing existing laws than abusing power. I see it less in our profession than in say the medical professions or priests as far as criminal acts and competency although every profession has bad apples. I have arrested my share of police officers over the years too (very scary, same training, usually that I gave them as an instructor, and same arms where they know my tactics and that their future is over). If we have one that becomes a bad guy, he is taken down like any other bad guy. Our society has polite rules to make change though through legislation and the courts, not by attacking those charged with enforcing the laws. If an abuse is made out litigious society more than compensates for it and enough law enforcement ends up wearing orange to show that we do not like any of own sullying our profession.
    Siberian:
    It can be frustrating at times and I hate to see so many bad guys getting away with things that we traditionally do little about (email scams, internet and ID frauds, bullying, etc.) but we all have to play by the rules set by our society and I would rather have those limitations than live in a police state.
    Gary Gerke:
    That would be horrible. We still have a democratic representative republic form of government where we should be able to elect law makers and policy writers that reflect a mainstream view that would resolve any crisis. My fear is more with the uneducated voting population as a whole that votes merely by name recognition or political party affiliation without ever taking the responsibility to truly learn the issues to the depth necessary to elect leaders who will actually fix our critical problems. We are responsible for our own bad leaders but the real frustration is how most voters do not take their responsibility with the seriousness and understanding that the right to vote deserves. Revolution and “rivers of blood” will never fix stupid.
    Eric siverson:
    I love our Constitution. I have a large framed copy on my wall. One of my most emotional moments was having the honor to actually see the original in our Capitol on a visit during Police Memorial Week and also see the 20,000 names of officers who have given their lives protecting society. I hate seeing how our modern politicians, through special interests groups, have in my opinion eroded it to the extent I see now. I personally think that the Second Amendment is your concealed carry permit and will vote that way however I am required to enforce the laws set by our society and do not have the luxury to pick and chose which ones I like or do not like. Again, we are governed by those we govern.(actually in reality more of a tax and form of discrimination if we are discussin CCW laws). To keep using the 2nd as an example and hat said do I have a ‘tipping point’ or a moral threshold? Sure everyone does. I would not have confiscated the guns like they did in New Orleans after Katrina for example. Fire me. Then I will go into politics to make sure things like that don’t happen again. We always chide illegal immigrants for not staying home and fixing their own problems there and often we are guilty as well here. I have a Masters Degree in Criminal Justice and have the statutes memorized but not the full constitution (have it on my iPad too and do read it on occasion for full disclosure here). In my personal opinion the law enacted by society often seem to fundamentally contradict the Constitution. But that is a matter for us to elect the proper representatives/judges that feel the same way to hopefully correct. Game Warden story is just weird.
    Leatherneck:
    Police officers are made from citizens. That is where the acronym COP comes from (Citizens On Patrol). They just happen to be the ones that are paid full time to take care of society’s problems and the high risks involved and the added responsibilities that go with it. That does in fact make it an elite profession as the amount of training and responsibility and the need to make correct decisions about difficult incidents immediately is incredible. My powers are derived directly from the people and my duty is to uphold the laws set by society itself (not made up by me personally or by any small special interest group that disagrees with them or they would be different from what we have). I don’t make up the laws I enforce. If you don’t like them, it is your right to work to change them, but not to fire on those charged with enforcing the rules set by society.
    TWS ArchAngel:
    Statistically nearly 70% of persons arrested for crimes are under the influence of drugs. The biggest killers are our ‘legal’ drugs like alcohol. I lost count decades ago of how many dead bodies I have worked at crash scenes caused by alcohol. That was a ‘failed’ drug policy dating back to prohibition in the 30’s. I would say it makes the other drugs seem like a small problem but then again in just the last 2 weeks here in Florida we had a guy on drugs eat another guys entire face off (possibly bath salts), another ‘cage fighter’ on mushrooms cut out his roommates still beating heart and ate it, and then last week another guy (possibly meth) eat a chunk of a guy’s face off and try to eat on the police officers that arrested him. Are drugs a problem for society? Of course they are. Can you legislate morality? I did not make those laws, your fellow citizens voted them in place through their elected representatives to apparently try to do so and you can’t blame me here either.
    Steve E:
    Our Sheriff’s Office technically is the citizen’s militia chosen (elected) by the local community and we police our own ranks very tightly or the Sheriff is not re-elected and someone else is chosen who will police their own ranks to the level desired by the community that elects them. See, the system does work. It is not as bad as you see in the movies. We have fired and arrested our share of our own over the years and try very hard to screen and train those we allow in to the profession but you are still dealing with human beings here so there will still be errors made. On the whole, our morals are a lot more scrutinized than say a plumbers or carpenter’s union (and rightfully so) and our success rate is higher than doctor’s or priests. Polygraph tests, random drug tests, serious reviews of all complaints, more video scrutiny. So then who or what would you replace the police with then? And who would police the militia that polices the police (often called the ‘Citizen’s Review Board’ although they are not armed although I don’t think armed confrontation if you disagree with the police is the answer. That is what our courts are for. A jury of your peers decide innocence or guilt ultimately, not the arresting officer. The Civil Courts will award any damages for wrongful acts.)
    Cheers,

    But once again, this is a really stupid law as anyone who resists arrest we are trained to overcome at the next higher level of force than that of the resistance faced. The correct action in a polite society is to deal with it in the courts (innocence or guilt / improper actions that impact rights or not and be compensated for it if warranted) not by shooting it out with law enforcement officers. I am highly trained and equipped to win that fight and have unlimited logistical resources to support me (SWAT teams, canines, Tasers, more officers, etc.). This ‘right to resist’ on the streets is an illusion that is going to get citizens and police hurt. Even if you kill an officer the SWAT teams will be there for follow up. This is a terrible piece of legislation enacted by unthinking individuals unable to even see the simple and inevitable outcome of resisting arrest.
    Robert S:

    • GALT

      Dear RS, one of the things you’re going to have to come to grips with is that much of what you do in the name of ‘enforcing the law”, is in fact, a violation of the law because it is law that is being written and adjudicated under “admiralty and maritime jurisdiction” of the Constitution, rather than the common law and equity jurisdictions. This has been true on the federal level since 1939, and on the federal district level (state) since 1959, under the UCC. So you are a policeman in a police state ( or military dictatorship ) whether you know it or not. If you doubt this then all you have to do to confirm it is find a common law and equity court which should not be difficult as you ARE in law enforcement.

      To understand the difference is easy, common law and equity jurisdictions operate on a different standard, common law requires you to produce a victim and evidence of harm or damage……….if this does not exist, no crime has taken place. If you spend any time enforcing motor vehicle laws, against drivers or pedestrians, for moving violations, inspection violations, jaywalking, DUI, you are commiting several criminal acts, Specifically, you in violation of 18 USC sections 241 & 242, Conspiracy which carries a 10 year sentence, and Deprivation of rights under color of law, which carries one,and every one involved in the process, thru conviction is guilty of both. So in one day as a traffic cop,
      you will have committed enough crimes easily equivalent to a life sentence.

      So your oath to the constitution and the state does not mean what you think it means
      and you are not serving the people or the constitution, but the government, under admiralty and maritime, and the people who have corrupted government.

      While your attitude toward resisting arrest is interesting, please provide the number of
      deaths and injuries suffered by law enforcement officers, and those suffered by the alleged criminals……just for fun. BTW you also may want of get COPS off the air, because it is not serving your interests……despite what you may think, it exposes the attitude immediately and if this is what you are willing to do when you know you are being filmed?

      I do not know, if any of the above will make a difference to you, but at least you will no longer have the luxury of “ignorance” regarding who and what you are serving.

      Galt, citizen of the united States, at LARGE.

      • Steve E

        I agree Galt.

    • GALT

      BTW Robert, in my experience with “law enforcement” at federal, state and local levels your final paragraph demonstrates perfectly the “attitude” that prevails among the majority of you, most of the time, regardless of what business you are conducting.

      You should know that you have succeeded, unfortunately…..because most of us are not criminals, despite your attempts to make this true, and you present more of a threat to us than actual criminals ever have……..or ever will.

      Your attitude, regarding your training and sophistication of equipment, will not help you if you decide to become an enemy of the people…..and you have been in the us v them
      mode for a long time……….and your reaction to this response in Indiana suggests that you do not recognize this change…….at the moment, in the us vs them thing, we are not united against you………but if you persist, in the end there are way more of US……and you wouldn’t stand a chance, but thank you for that blustery finish.

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear RS,

      I don’t know how long you’ve been here. You may have missed this. http://personalliberty.com/2012/02/13/the-violent-militarization-of-local-police/ This is why a law like this needed.

      It’s good to hear that you say there is now less police misconduct than you used to see. Sadly, that appears not the case across the nation. Of particular interest to you should be the CATO report (linked in the article) about the effects of SWAT raids.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

  • JimH

    The really sad part is a law like that in Indiana actually needed to be passed.
    The fact that things degraded so far that a law like that even needed to be considered is tragic.

  • Howlingmad

    You “DO”, what you’ve got to do . . . there’s NO GRAY AREA.

  • stupidamerkin

    “There exist a law, not written down anywhere, but inborn in our hearts; a law which comes to us not by training or custom or reading; a law which has come to us not by theory but from practice, not by instruction but by natural intuition. I refer to the law which lays it down that, if our lives are endangered by plots or violence or armed robbers or enemies, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right.”

    Marcus Tullius Cicero

  • 2¢ worth…

    I’ll tell you why.. Because the law and the politicians are part of the problem and the majority of sleepers can’t imagine that martial law is in their leaders’ agenda. We’ve been a gaggle of idiots ever since the toad mongers and their controlled media determined television and newspapers were their greatest propaganda weapon.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Warren Browder

    The “right” to shoot a police officer has been in effect for a number of years. The U.S Supreme court has ruled that a citizen has a right to resist unlawful arrest, up to, and including, the death of the person attempting the arrest.
    This is the reason Police Officers will ALWAYS find a “reason” for arrest. Something as mundane as Disturbing the Peace will suffice, since resisting lawful arrest is a felony.

  • http://smoovious.wordpress.com Smoovious Laxness

    There is a reason why the police academies tend to favor recruits with below-average intelligences, instead of above-average ones.

    The above-average ones would tend to question their actions more, and might actually think for themselves.

    Scary.

    Can’t have the police, determining for themselves if something needs to be escalated to an arrest or not. How often do we hear that it is the law and they have no choice. This is exactly why officers are supposed to use their own judgement in the execution of their job.

    If you don’t have the choice, then you are just agents imposing the state’s will, not police officers.

    If you do have the choice, then you leave little kids’ lemonade stands alone and bitch out your dispatcher for wasting your time with that.

    The below-average candidates, are more likely to just do as their told, and leave the rational thinking to others.

    – Smoov

  • GrayStroke

    Well then you folks may want to listen in on this because as we are being conditioned to be sheep this may very well be looming ahead of us:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um7py40VTfo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L894YLg-qf8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0d9_dnHHEI&feature=related
    http://thelibertyman.com/
    the rabbit hole goes deeper after BP oil spill here:
    http://thelibertyman.com/gulf_stream.php

    So forget the jumping hand trying to divert your attention and focus on the other hand ALWAYS LOOK FOR THE OTHER HAND elsewhere…

  • ONTIME

    Many of the law enforcement people know that they are going to fight a losing battle if the become to contentious with the people who pay for their services, their motto may be to serve and protect but their aim is to enforce the laws no matter how ridiculous or unfair the law may be and with the courts releasing hardened criminals right back into the streets after being arrested, the ire and frustration from both the police and the citizens is high.

    The politicians are taunting the people by sacrificing the law enforcement, fire and ordinary security, the citizens in return are demanding more right to carry permits and the right to use their weapons as intended, the opposition to right to carry will have to give, the inability to fulfill the obligations of the officials to protect person and property will win the day with or without the approval of the government. This means that government is going to have to make the concession to work within their given means and stop trying to have their cake when there is no funding to buy it…

    • Dave

      I was trained in police work and part of that training included throwing people in jail and yelling he is resisting arrest if that person tried to stand on his constitutional rights. This as a matter of protocol when any person tried to inform a police officer of the constitutional law something they swore on a BIBLE to protect,and uphold. Do a study and ask every police woman or man if they have ever read the constitution or better yet understood it and the answers would scare you as to who is given a badge. If the police would go back to saying its a free country instead of arresting people for BS statutes that have been proven in the courts as unconstitutional (see Marbury vs. Madison) then we would be better off because when you protect rights people trust law enforcement. The patriot act is the biggest abuse of power ever along with other laws that go against the constitution. As police officer we need to remember what our oath was for and not hide behind the old adage of I don’t make the laws I just enforce them because that makes you a hypocrite to your oath and a builder of a communist country that is the dream result of very powerful evil people. Remember socialist becomes communist when they get the guns.

      • GALT

        That Government is FORCE is true, regardless of which economic fantasy is believed to be true or that a society is operating under, believing it to be true.

        Economics, is neither science nor a discipline………it is a fraud whose justification and purpose has been to seek to maintain the status quo of power and privilege.

        It is at its core, simply an evolution of “materialism” from it’s primitive roots, and those philosophies which opposed it………..to the more sophisticated version of this con game we now have today.

        That the police are an arm of oppression is true, but they are NOT serving socialist or communistic philosophies……..and the proof of this is easily demonstrated.

        Please provide, if you can…….from1789 forward, any and all instances, where government
        force was used to protect anything that could be even remotely construed as being influenced by “socialist or communist” ideology………

        On the other hand, use of force on behalf of the privileged, is ubiquitous.

        • Michael D. Howard

          Galt: I hope not but alas the government has supported wars for socialist and communist cause, i.e. Bankers’ or their true name Fascism, wars in Iraq & Afghanistan. Aim in fact to further along with that New World Order. We become their (Enemies or everything that is anti God) salves.

          But as for the government standing up and using it forces in the cause of liberty many examples of that. The US Civil War. The major question s was Maman (money) over God. The South said it could make money by use of slaves thus embellishing the USA economy which is what they told people in the North and of course the other Spiritual question, Righteousness over Race.

          God, which socialist and communist don’t ascribe to or refuse to acknowledge, clearly says we are our brothers keeper not his slave holder. I am talking about Humankind and only here using what I call a metaphor, the word brother or his.

          By the way our economic system clearly does not have its foundation in God. It resembles more of the ideas of socialism (money for the rich) & communism (power/rule for the rich) but we all know the end result is called Fascism & the loss of liberty and freedom which flows from God.

          Peace & Blessings Always,

          Mike H

      • GALT

        Interesting, but the question was very specific and concerned the Government of the United States……from 1789…….it doesn’t take much to understand when observing the most recent actions of government……if communism or socialism is the goal, then government would NOT have bailed out wall st……nor would it be persecuting the OWS.

        For most of human history, meta physical philosophies which have sought deeper meaning and truths concerning “existence” were also decidedly “anti materialistic” and provided significant checks against it…….but the lust for power over others, is ever present, and the chief mechanism which served their purpose most efficiently was “money” as coin, and the instruments of money, pretending to be coin…
        whose goals were conquest and enslavement………soldiers need to be paid, and coined money was far more efficient than promises of potential loot……although as a bonus for success, this too, acted as added incentive.

        When you speak of socialism/communism in their contemporary “economic” sense, they must be understood as responses to the primary expression of modern materialism, capitalism……which is defined as private ownership ( of the means of production ) and so they in turn, are also, defined as variants of this definition.

        In historical terms, socialistic/communistic societal organizations have invariably been aligned with the anti materialism of the meta-physicists…….until the recent evolution of materialism, which constructed “economics” as a means of expression…..and it is only in this recent transformation that we see the economic response of communism, reject religion……specifically the christian sect, as an “opiate of the people”.

        Now I am no stranger to either Christianity, or the evils of communism as it was manifested by the Soviet Union, as we were taught…….but even then if one considered the goals of
        communistic ideology with those of Christianity, this particular aspect, seemed to me to be completely contradictory almost at the outset.

        What was responsible for this dissolution of an anti materialist alliance that has existed for all of known history………..what was different here?

        Of course, I do not know how much of what I have said to this point, is subject to dispute, even though it is all factually accurate……that is to say it is supported by evidence, the only evidence available.

        We, unfortunately, are products of eurocentric prejudices or programming or culture, but
        even though we have come to dominate the world, the influence of europe on the world is is recent………..300 years at most, less with regard to the evolution of the “economics” variant of materialism, capitalism………so this is going to be an interesting journey…..
        stay tuned.

  • Michael D. Howard

    Police Misconduct Not as Bad As It use to Be: Just ask anybody who studied the early 1900′s when police were the prototypes for the ones who operate in Mexico today, they were bought and paid for; Police Chiefs’ regularly came up dead; People of color wound
    up being lynched or brutality was sanctioned against them; Ask any old time labor leaders and see how much brutality there was against citizens standing up for the right to organize and petition their government for Redress; If they (police) murdered someone they just put a throw-away-gun on them. Today they just have to say I thought he had a gun (some improvement?) Jump to the 40′s and there was only a slight improvement.

    One difference I do see from yesterday to day. People did not always sit around and take it; they prayed and then by faith overcame great odds. I remind you of Martin Luther King Jr. efforts’ and the many ministers of faith during our modern era. Los Angele’s brutal & corrupt force of the 40’s was similarly reformed after prayer then action.

    A small group of people organized and rallied against the system. It reminds me of the American fight for so-called independence & establishment of a Republic. Only a small number of people pledged their lives and scared fortunes. Others just waited for their linage to evolve and join the DAR or sons of liberty or other some such organization which looked on with indifference on the plight of others who had not yet attained liberty in our great nation.

    If we are becoming salves to the state and the banks I remind you of my comment un- responded to concerning Lamentations 5:1-11 (NIV). Substitute the word Slaves for Servants as do some bibles and you see the true picture of our current situation as well as past ones.

    Seek the Truth of the Spirit of the True God then act. Of course the Iroquois Confederation who had 800 years of democracy & Peace, before Anglo Europeans established themselves in North American, did but they did not heed the advice. Look how they wound up.

    My point in that commentary was stop voting for wolves in sheep clothing. Pray, get discernment and act accordingly. Stop parading and pandering with the Party of Godless Heathens & Poly Theist or the one that has become a full-fledged surrogate for the Children of the Antichrist.

    Peace & Blessings Always,
    Mike H.

  • oldbutnotadumbass 2012

    The way I see it,is that the police is not entirely to blame here,After all look at the crimes that take place everyday,and some of the looney-toons that do them.Anybody saying how awful the police are,should first take a look in a mirror.Then while your doing that ask yourself some Questions like:Am I a good and honest citizen,who obeys laws ,and raised my family right? That question along will reduce the percentage(of honest/law bide citizens) to about fifty per cent (at least).You have to understand just some simple logic here,not just a lot of big words,and lots of Hot Air!!The public has gotten worst ,over the last several decades.And we have to understand that the Police are human too.The Public has indeed made the work of the average policeman much harder.I’m sure that if some of us ,on this web-site,were policemen,we would ,no doubt , get tired of the Crap they have to put with too!

    • MontieR

      I agree that police work is a tough job. But that does NOT give them the right to ignore our constitution even when a corrupt judge says they can. I totally agree with the shoot back law. If a barney comes in my house without a warrant he WILL be met with lethal force. If a local cop shows up with a warrant I will call the sheriffs office and have a stand by BEFORE I let them in and EVERYTHING will be videotaped.

      • Michael D. Howard

        Montie R take a look at Brooxsie Comment of June 12 (be sure to read it to get the jist of my reply here). Brooxside told us the police and government officials seized their home and mistreated them from what I understand. If they or anyone encounter people with similar problems I suggest they can stop that process by just filing a federal bankruptcy. The law enforcement and the courts can do nothing but join the bureaucratic paper game and you can keep them at that quite a long time.

        As to the issue of police and government mistreatment that is a matter of perception. Years ago, 1992, in LA County Government wanted the property of Donald Scott. They set up a phony marijuana scheme then raided the his home. They went in and shoot him to death ( see the following report on http://www.saveourguns.com/scott001.htm. My recollection is they proceeded with their so called right of eminent domain to acquire his property. Now that is abuse of authority by government.

        Montie if you pull a gun on them you will be dead too. That is how they win and your family is left with getting a lawyer to sue.

        Does that make us a police state? The 1992 incident is sited is an isolated instance amongst several others. Law enforcement and the courts are not as bad as they had been from 1800′s through 1960′s, they don’t openly murder, take bribes & brutalize union members or sanction the lynching and mistreatment of people of color. Nor or they regularly assisting in the murders of citizens to seize their property in behalf of rich land barons. Are police are not operating as they do in current day Mexico and many other parts of the world. Like our current climate we are living in relatively good times. It is your perception that is the problem.

        Like weather we can mitigate its effect. The same is true with the law enforcement, courts, government, banks and all the rest of the would be fascist. How you might ask? Here is how and it is quite simple: (1) Pray and find within yourself the wisdom and the righteousness of the Spirit of the Truth of God (2) examine you’re ways within that Godly context of right and wrong. (3) Vote for people who are a true reflection of that. Not the ones who put on Harry Potter outfits and go worship in that Grove in CA before a stone idol. Nor the ones who follow that Poly theist, and the rest of his godless heathen pack, who endorses “butt pirates” and seeks to make us all confirm to them and their ways (4 and ) don’t forget to buy American made goods. It is the elimination of the middle class that is bring us the climate in which a police state can incubate and be established.

        Peace & Blessings Always through the Grace of God,

        Mike H.

    • GALT

      Hello, wishfully thinking..oldbutnotadumbass………unlike the police or anyone else employed by government I did not take an oath to serve……..I , as a citizen, OUTRANK everyone in government, from the president on down…..they all exist for ME, THE CITIZEN………without me they have no purpose, and if they serve no function that serves me as a citizen…..then they serve NO PURPOSE AT ALL.

      THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A CITIZEN ON THE UNITED STATES and is a direct derivation of the only idea in the Declaration of Independence that makes what we have tried here DIFFERENT…….that governments derive their just powers from the CONSENT of the governed……….and as simple as that seems……..even we haven’t been able to live up to it and government certainly isn’t headed in that direction, if it ever did.

      Are all cops bad……..well if they are supposed to be fighting crime, why is the office of internal affairs despised by the rank and file……..as incestuous as that profession is, who’s on the take can not escape notice……they are all brother’s you see…..like Serpico
      learned…….it’s not isolated, it’s what you are allowed to know…..

      1.) Last time I checked the job is voluntary…….the risks come with it and you are still OUTRANKED by everyone……

      2.) Tom Selleck is not a real commissioner of police…….so the phrase it is better to tried by six in a box, than to be in a box carried by six…….while that sounds profound…….
      the latter is a rare occurrance…..suicide is still the leading cause of death while the first is so extremely rare as to be absurd……..

      maybe you are one of them…..or maybe you have been lucky……but please don’t encourage them……..disarm them…..and then see how many want to remain “law enforcement officers”………just to say thanks….automatic death penalty for anyone who kills an unarmed law enforcement officer……volunteers?

  • oldbutnotadumbass 2012

    Come On GALT According to you its mostly the policemen fault,of being the way that some of therm can get.That is not not all together true .No one (in their right mind)would come up with that ideal,without first looking at all the facts.the raise in crime,decline of respect for the law,and morals.(you think i’m wrong?)I grew up in the 40′s,50′s.Back then the divorce rate was something like 25%,or less(1950′s) at least that I what learned in social studies in the seventh,eight grade. from my Teacher..infact I remember a time when people didn’t have to lock up theirs cars(1940′s).Nowadays you lock up your car,and still it gets broken into.How about the increase in gang warfare.sure we had them back in the 1940′s, but at least I ,went to school that didn’t have metal detectors ,I didn’t have worry about a bomb going off,or being shot at by a fellow student,and I didn’t have worry about being sexualy assualted by a teacher.I’m not siding with the police,i’m just saying look at all the facts.

    • GALT

      If there has been a decline in morals and respect for the law, then one might do well to consider what were the causes for that in conjunction with pointing out that it is the existing circumstance. The most obvious difference is that there are significantly more people, world population has more than doubled, and that it true for the United States as well.

      Also the conditions surrounding morality and law, need to be viewed in the social and actuarial environment that supported them, so when you turn an obvious nostalgic eye on this period, pointing to this anecdotal evidence, you need to remember that things were in the process of changing on very fundamental levels…….the primary one being an increase in life expectancy which was both unanticipated and worse, essentially ignored
      as to it’s negative implications………although, your nostalgic view is correct in one very important area, the emergence of the “middle class”, whose rise spans roughly the period of 1935 thru 1980, a demographic that before this, never existed and now occupies a place in our psyche, to such a degree, that we can not remember a time, when it did not exist, and that is a short historical context in which to view the world.

      During this period, we were still ghetto-ized, with distinct ethnic neighborhoods, and a sense of cultural awareness, and this too was in the process of change, so that for women and minorities, specifically the black population…..both the civil rights movement and well as the biological freedom, available through birth control, and safe abortion procedures,
      altered the conditions, which set the previous boundaries of what you refer to as morals and respect for the law. Culturally, primarily through entertainment, the post WW2 time frame, provided us with a vision of the United States as the morally superior good guys, and the good guys always won……be it the cowboys, the calvary, the fbi, the police etc.

      The reality, however……..was demonstrating that this vision was a lie, and essentially hypocritical……so that we were confronted with the fact that we were not what we represented ourselves to be……..and we are still having to make adjustments to this view,
      not only in regard to view our past, but also our present, and what this implies for our future. So, I agree that things have changed………but not because, of a decline of “morality” or “a respect for the law”, but because both of these things, were essentially
      illusions……..and have been exposed as such, so that we are still in the process of attempting to define what these things actually mean, in the starkly realistic circumstances we now find ourselves in.

      None of this changes the FACT, that as intended, this nation is built on the foundation that government is the servant of the people…….and the police are part of that structure and must recognize that they are constrained by it…………regardless of the circumstances.
      Nobody forced them to accept this position………so if these circumstances are such that,
      the only result they are able to achieve is to be viewed as a force of oppression, then they are no longer needed. The fact that they are believed to be or represent some sort of deterrant or provide any protection, to anyone, has only resulted in removing the means
      of citizens to protect themselves……and as pointed out above, they are serving under admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the Constitution, and were this not the case, in
      a single day of traffic duty……they would commit enough crimes to incur a life sentence.

      But even more telling…..is the attitude that persists, in the so called level of training, and who would win in an escalating situation…….( this is sheer arrogance, and presumes
      that the circumstances that support this, where they have the initiative will always be the case )………specifically, that they are trained to “subdue resistance” by proceeding to the next level, or adopting it……….therefor 0 resistance, is met by level one force, and if you have not experienced this yet, you are fortunate indeed.

      Now it should be clear that I do understand where you are coming from, hopefully you can see that there is a lot more to this then just looking back to the way things used to be and hoping for a return to the thrilling or calmer days of yesteryear?

      • Michael D. Howard

        Galt your theosophical pronouncements do have a lot of truth. Americans have allowed themselves to be mislead on our country’s history. Including the growth of the Republic and its democratic evolved electoral process (remember we adopt very late the Australian system of voting). It was the growth of the middle class and their inherent Christian values that provided the single bedrock for all the changes that have allowed America to flourish as a democracy. That included the cleanup of corrupt and brutal police departments.

        Today it is the elimination of the middle class that is causing us to become a caricature of a fascist police state. The Enemy (evil) has done this by deliberate intent to move us into that one World Government and rule of the Anti-Christ ala 1984 style world wide fascist cabal

        Galt remember I keep saying humankind faces a 3 fold problem: The world (nature and it can be unforgiving); the flesh (that is us and all by itself without prompting it can cause our fall as a species; the devil, paraphrasing the Scripture, “we battle not against flesh and blood but against the rulers in high/dark places (spiritual)”.

        If we don’t examine our God given values (every person has those values written in their heart (spirit) based on a standard of righteousness and translate said same into how we vote and act correctly towards one another. The summation of all of God’s commandments says to love your neighbor as you should love yourself. Only in that way we can avoid a 1984 police state.

  • middle man 2012

    I Agree with you 100% on that ” Oldbutnotadumbass.”! Was born in the very early 40″s,And like you,I too remember a time when there where more honest,and hard working people than there are today.You are right on about our schools,they are really in the F#*king tank if you ask me.IF I had Young kids now,I sure the hell would not be sending any one of them to a public school!!!It is no wonder some of the police act the way they do sometimes,look at what they have to put up with out of our so called public.I would not like being one thats for dam sure!!!Galt All people in this Country are equal ,doesn’t matter if they work for a private frim,or as a public servant such as a policeman..sure we have our rights,but that doesn’t give us the right to be a pain in the ass to other people.Just stop and think how much money we spent on our law enforcement in this country,and how much we could save if people would stop breaking so many dam laws!!!!

    • GALT

      All are equal in theory…….in reality some are way more equal than others……and I have multiple posts on this page, each dealing with different aspects of this “issue” including the “nostalgic history” to which you refer……

      So taking your closing line……..just imagine how much money we would save if we didn’t have so many laws to break?

  • former walmart person

    The police act all big and tough, but when the crap hits the fan and the plebes bite back, the cops are the first to run and hide. The military then has to show up with a fresh change of diapers for the cops, as they did in NOLA and after the Rodney King riots. Not so tough when not in an easy fight, huh? You guys can beat down pregnant mothers, but will run from violent rioters.

  • Michael D. Howard

    PS: Galt take a look at that old movie called, “They Live,” by John Carpenter made during the time Regan was in office. You can see how a police force becomes the willing tool of a plotting economic entity. It also portrays how you get humanity to go along with the program i.e. just give them their toys, trinkets & Entertainment/movies/TV (whose purpose is to keep them wanting and distracted). They vote the way you want and take any indignity you send their way. Those of course who resist can be labeled as trouble makers and not patriotic. After all why did the Tea Party types vote in Obama’s National Defense Authorization Act of 2011? And please don’t tell me the Administration was not in on the writing of that. Is that the same Admin that now can have any citizen outside of the US shot to death without trial or formal charges? Sounds like a police state to me.
    Peace & Blessings Always,
    Mike H.

    • GALT

      I am not arguing that Michael we began operating Federally as a police state in 1939, and in every other state by 1959………with most people still clueless and still wasting their breath yelling “unconstitutional”……….corporations are the new Master’s, but like all the best laid plans of mice and men, this last little trip to the edge was slightly miscalculated, so now they have a problem……..a class system based on the artificial value of money, only works, if you can maintain the illusion…….if the system fails, the power it gave you, is no longer there……..they also have another problem which they have failed to take into account and that is, that what has fueled the latest surge of wealth, was made possible by the tapping the stored energy of coal and petroleum, which is a resource that is in the decline, and has produced enormous damage, to the biological infrastructure on which all life depends………..as well as increasing population……to what appears to be unsustainable levels. This is a debt which can not be avoided or denied, and while they have managed to avoid accepting responsibility, this will not be possible much longer…..the arab spring was not caused by a political awakening, nor inspired by a thirst for democracy…….it was caused by starvation and this problem is not going away.

  • middleman @2012

    Nostaigic HISTORY,,,,,,,Illusions??????More people…..Better news reporting….?You kind of lost me there,Hey I know!!!I was living in the Twilight Zone.Get the Hell real,There is more,drugs,more gays,more abortions(About 40 to 51 million,then we point our little finger at Hilter and say what a Son of bi^^h he was),Times have indeed changed over the last 40 years thats for dam sure Like oldbutnotadunbass the facts are the facts,the facts ,GAlt,are not ILLUSIONS,but real and , if you want to call that period of time NOSTAIGIC Feel free to do so.but to me,it was a time when people were more honest,

  • middleman @2012

    I feel very sorry for this Nation when the older generation finally dies out,because most of the younger generation don’t seem to know what the hell they want in life exscept a hand=out.you talk about policemen being as#h#les,what about some of the people that make up the public,rmiddle man has made some good points,I,myself have never ,ever had any bad dealings with a police officer,Am I just being lucky here,or is it that I’m smart enough not to be breaking laws?however if a policeman goes against the law to attack me,to do me harm,of course I.m going to defend myself.useing any,and all means to protect myself!!! I have no right to disrespect the law,when it is doing its j ob,.a lot of Toons out there in public land have no ideal out to deal with some one in authority.like ,a boss on the job,a wife,or husband ,,up to,and counting policemen.

  • middleman @2012

    I mean oldbutnotadumbass

  • middleman @2012

    Oldbutnotadumbass,and Middleman,I agree with you up to a point,However if the policeman is no good remove his ass from his job!!!!!!

  • Mutantone

    All to show how great Unions are for the Police and fire departments!

  • Pingback: Indiana First State to Allow Citizens to Shoot Law Enforcement Officers « News Worldwide

  • Gangbuster 2012

    Indiana,is long over due in firing a lot of their policemen.Why are people like this even being hired, in the first place,if they are not able to their job right?Sounds to me,the person or persons,who are doing the hiring should have their Butts FIRED!!!!!!!

  • Pingback: Shooting at police now legal in Indiana… « CITIZEN.BLOGGER.1984+ GUNNY.G BLOG.EMAIL

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