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Please, Mr. Buffett, Shut Up!

October 28, 2011 by  

Please, Mr. Buffett, Shut Up!

I don’t know which I’m more tired of hearing: Barack Obama gloating that one of the richest men in America supports his tax-the-rich efforts, or Warren Buffett whining that his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does.

Let me state for the record that both men are playing fast and loose with the truth, and they both know it.

It is true that Buffett pays a relatively low rate in taxes on most of his income. That’s because it’s not his salary that matters, but what he receives in dividends from his investments. Such dividends are currently taxed at 15 percent a year. If he pays his secretary a decent wage, which I’m sure he does, her tax rate is surely much higher.

But what Warren doesn’t include in his calculations are the taxes that have already been paid on those dividends before he receives them. You see, corporations must pay Uncle Sam 35 percent of all the profits they make before they can send any of those profits to the owners of the company — that is, the shareholders.

This tax rate, by the way, is one of the highest in the Western world. It explains why our most profitable companies that do business around the world — such multinational giants as Coca-Cola Co. and McDonald’s Corp., where Uncle Warren just happens to be a major shareholder — keep most of their profits offshore. Why should they bring those dollars back to the United States, where they would immediately get cut by 35 percent?

This explains why U.S. companies have decided to leave most of their offshore profits overseas. A recent estimate indicated more than $1.5 trillion in unrepatriated profits are held in foreign bank accounts, rather than being put to work building new factories and new products back home.

How many new jobs could that money create if it were put to work back here? Well, if a $400 billion jobs program could create 2.5 million new jobs (something I seriously doubt), then all those repatriated profits would go a long way to ending unemployment in the United States.

That won’t happen under the present Democrat rule.

But let’s get back to the taxes Buffett pays. If you add his 15 percent capital gains tax to the 35 percent tax on corporate profits, it shows the Federal government gets almost 45 percent of every dollar in taxed profits that Warren’s companies earn.

The bite from government doesn’t stop there. Nebraska also charges a 6.84 percent State income tax. There is also a 5.5 percent State sales tax assessed on most of the purchases residents there make. Oh, and let’s not forget an additional 1.5 percent sales tax Omaha, Neb., collects.

Of course, more than half of that amount is removed before Warren sees it, so it’s easy to see why he could overlook it in his calculations. But believe me, he knows it is happening. There are very few business owners in America who are as good at analyzing a balance sheet as the Sage of Omaha.

Think of it: Almost two-thirds of every dollar his companies earn and would like to pay him goes to government. And he doesn’t think it’s enough? C’mon, Warren, play straight with us here.

By the way, let me make one more point about America’s second-richest man before continuing.

Buffet has reduced his already low tax bill quite a bit more by making charitable contributions. I don’t know the full total, but he’s given away at least $50 billion to the Bill and Linda Gates Foundation. Just think, if he hadn’t taken the deduction, that’s several billion dollars he would have paid in Federal taxes.

But why stop there? If he really believes the Federal government deserves the money, why didn’t he send it all to Uncle Sam? Why, the extra $50 billion would have been enough to cover the deficit for almost 1.25 days.

Hmmm, when you put it that way, it doesn’t sound like very much, does it?

It’s too bad that Warren didn’t listen to his father more. Howard Buffet was a very conservative Republican Congressman who criticized growing government power back in the 1940s and ’50s. Think what he’d say today!

Warren’s dad didn’t like the graduated income tax and blamed the 16th Amendment for many of our financial ills. His son thinks millionaires don’t pay enough in taxes and seems pleased that Barack Obama likes to call his tax-the-rich efforts “the Buffett tax.” My, how things have changed out there in Omaha!

One last point before I leave this topic for today. I’ve been amused to see how many critics have jumped on Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 proposal to change the tax system in this country because it’s regressive.

By “regressive,” those opponents mean it slaps an unfair burden on the poor. This is a great example of how the left likes to turn the meaning of words upside down. In the old days, everyone admitted that the Federal income tax was progressive, meaning that the more you earned, the greater percentage you had to pay in taxes. To the advocates of Big Nanny government, this was eminently “fair.”

Of course, those of us who pointed out that a progressive income tax was a key plank in Karl Marx’s Communist Manifesto were mocked, scorned and shouted down — when we weren’t totally ignored. But now the argument has become so turned around, the advocates of big government claim that if we tax everyone equally, we’ve suddenly become regressive.

Let me point out that none of these people oppose the most regressive tax in America: the numerous lotteries various States run. Studies have proved over and over again that the poorest third of our population spends the biggest proportion of available cash on lottery tickets.

It’s no surprise that many of them are addicted to the something-for-almost-nothing promise of this form of State-sponsored gambling. But at least they’re not allowed to buy lottery tickets with those fancy government-issued credit cards that have replaced food stamps. At least, I don’t think they are.

Probably every adult in America will agree that the present tax system isn’t fair. Getting them to agree on what should replace it is another matter entirely. It doesn’t help when the President of the country and our second-richest citizen conspire to fudge the facts.

As I said at the beginning of this piece: Please, Mr. Buffett, shut up.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • s c

    It’s no wonder that our government twits love a tax code that is a two-fisted monstrosity instead of ten pages or less of simple, logical pages of paper. Uncle Scam knows from experience that when he’s allowed to cook his many sets of books, make tax rules beyond the comprehension of most mortals (even Uncle Scam’s own ‘experts’) and print money that doesn’t exist, Americans should have the right to shop around for a kinder, friendlier and gentler back-stabber.
    Nobody needs multiple doctorates to understand that Uncle Scam’s ways of getting his slice of the money pie first amounts to a declaration of war against anyone who’s not wealthy.
    I try not to be envious of great wealth. I can’t have any use for Washington, where elected criminals show us daily who works for whom and the fact that crime DOES pay.
    It would be interesting to know what Buffet and Gates will do when Uncle Scam’s ‘full faith and credit’ lie implodes. Maybe our elected trash can move in with them.

    • http://naver samurai

      I agree with you S.C. It is time to simplify our tax system instead of it being 7 times thicker than the Bible and understood by no one. Some people have called for a flat tax, but I think that is pretty much DIW (dead in the water). I’m not envious of those that are a lot more prosperous than we are, but the only check and finances I concentrate on are our own. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Void1972

        samurai
        This is the time for war. Keep your thoughts pure. Keep God in your heart.
        Keep your mind and your sword sharp!
        God bless America, and those who fight for her!!!!

        • http://moses.vemma.com Dragon

          For those who own weapons – KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY!

          • Bus

            Don’t you people sleep. Is your life so empty you just wait up for the Liberty Alert to be published so you can be the first to comment? And you always say the same thing.

          • DaveH

            Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Bus.

          • libertytrain

            I think this Bus character’s life must be terribly empty if he has time to continuously check on who posts when … who could possibly care?

          • JeffH

            eddie for one…pays more attention to who posts first, who disparages the progressive/liberals and Obama the most. He’s more enamored by what people say rather than what is honest or moral.

        • djdrew103

          When are all the Repugs and Conservatives going to realize that we aren’t morons and that claiming a corporation has a tax rate of 30-35% isn’t floating anymore? We, the people, already know that corporations have their legal tax war rooms and pay far less. The point is, hard working people get paid less. It isn’t right that they have to pay MORE taxes percentage wise. Get a brain. Simple and to the point. I don’t care if GE’s billions got a 35% tax rate. They are not paying that rate, final! Buffet’s or the President’s rate is less than their secretaries, and their secretaries don’t have the deductions and exemptions the richer bosses have! Moronic and unfair. We are not surprised that the rich and wealthy in general can find fancy words and palatable lies to suit themselves and explain their way through it. What is surprising is the amount of idiots out there that will swallow their lies and then repeat them in defense of their political standpoint, just because they opt for a party! Retarded!

          • djdrew103

            Void1972 says:
            October 29, 2011 at 12:46 am
            samurai
            This is the time for war. Keep your thoughts pure. Keep God in your heart. Keep your mind and your sword sharp!
            God bless America, and those who fight for her!!!!

            Dragon says:
            October 29, 2011 at 2:12 am
            For those who own weapons – KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY!
            ………………

            Do you all not realize that you are echoing the twit Michele Bachmann?

          • DaveH

            If you had a brain, you’d realize that it’s just a shell game designed, as our all shell games, to enrich the operators. The taxes charged corporations just get passed on to their consumers (that’s us for those without a brain). So, the operator (the Government) uses the blind jealousy of the Liberals to extract more money from us. Nice game, for Politicians and their buddies.
            And again, for those who can see, here are the actual tax receipts from the IRS:
            http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

      • http://comcast the fisherman

        inregards to buffett. canter is for canter and he will make any statement to anmyone who attacks the rich. Lets see how he explains the problems to his friends and family that count on medicare and social security.

    • ernest

      this whole tax thing is just a smoke-screen, what makes jobs is PROFIT the free-trade stopped that in america ( look at the income of the 1% their money is made all over the world they only live here )if they build a factory in a country we have a free-trade deal with they pay slave wages, no benefits, low goverment costs, no lawyers to worry about, (remember a few year ago a american factory in India had a explosion? it was in the news, a lot of lawyers rushed over there and India kicked them out ) the list of reasons for a company NOT to build in america is long and the profits show up in the 1%s income, so if you think free-trade is good look at who profits from it.

    • Lee

      Can’t anyone say “FairTax”??? HR 25, S 13 You need to understand how it works and how it will set you free from the IRS, and Big Brother. Then pester your representatives to push for it. Aren’t you tired of being a slave to Big Brother?
      Go to http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main to get the whole story.

      • Old Henry

        Lee:

        As I understand the Fair Tax bill it DOES NOT repeal the 16th Amendment. So, we get the Fari Tax AND the Income Tax.

        Without REPEALING the 16th Amendment there is no way of stopping the career criminals in DC from re-imposing the Income Tax.

        • Lee

          Henry, this page can explain it better than I. http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/WhichComesFirst.pdf
          We first have to get the ball rolling. The way I understand it, the 16th amendment ALLOWS the collection of income tax, but does NOT require it. If we don’t get the ball rolling, it will never happen. Getting rid of the IRS, is the first step toward freedom. Don’t you like the idea of taking all your pay check home?

          • DaveH

            OMG! Does this tell it like it is or not? From the above link:
            “That safe landing comes from simply putting the FairTax – a progressive national sales tax – there and allowing our nation to enjoy how well it works.” Does that sound like it came straight out of Nancy (let’s pass the bill first) Pelosi’s mouth or what?
            “That safe landing”? “a progressive national sales tax”?
            They got that Progressive thing right. Europe has both Sales Tax (VAT) and an Income Tax. What is Europe if not Progressive?
            Safe landing for who??? Certainly not the taxpayers who will have opened Pandora’s Box for both Federal Sales Tax and Income Taxes at the same time. Talk about a Trojan Horse. When are you people going to learn? Politicians are sneaky. They aren’t going to tell you the truth willingly. If they wanted to truly make it safe, why don’t they simply write the Fair Tax Bill to go into effect as law if, and only if, the 16th Amendment is Repealed, and the Income Tax is simultaneously ended? How hard would it be to add that wording?

            WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!

    • Gary

      Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Daily, I wonder about the political platitudes and disingenuous rhetoric coming from Obama and his administration. Clearly, our narcissistic president has as a priority his own re-election. In short, his hobnobbing with the rich and disdain for the middle-class is unprecedented.

    • john

      Off subjet just a tad but Buffet lost all credibility as his own man when he bought into BofA. This was of course after meeting with President Obama. Stealth QE3 compliments of UNCLE SCAM. Financials of all kinds are going down in flames. He has been assimilated!

  • Anthony

    These guys are deep in the Bilderberg Group. They could care less, since they have that much wealth. Buffett fools everyone with FOXNEWS and Obama sets up rigged investments (Brazil Oil?) thru his Banksters Bosses.

    All we can do is spread the word and invest right alongside, for the time being…. just spread the word….

    • ralph herman

      To the author,everyone one is lying but you and me make that me as you can’t be trusted with the truth.A flat tax rate for everyone and everything would cut the size of the government and most of its over paid department heads and divisions heads.We hear get government off our back well it only went deeper in my pocket and it is still on my back and in my pocket.If I start a business and it fails because I can not re-invest it fails.Not big oil.

    • DaveH

      Why pick on Fox when they are the only News Network (mostly through their Fox Business Network) who gives the light of day to concepts of Freedom, like with John Stossel, or Judge Napolitano? Eric Bolling and David Asman also do a bang-up job of exposing the corruption. Give Rupert Murdoch some credit for not marching in lockstep with the rest of the MSM. Unless you just want Rupert to figure “what the hell, why stick my neck out?”.

      • newspooner

        Still, we must not forget that Murdoch made contributions to the Hilary Clinton campaign.

        • DaveH

          Newspooner,
          Would you prefer the exclusive Propaganda we got from the MSM before Fox came on board?

          • newspooner

            I would prefer to expand Liberty News Network.

      • djdrew103

        Why does it not surprise me that you trust Fox News?

        • DaveH

          Actually, it was Fox Business Network. And I judge what I hear based on 40 years of reading and experience. The programs I listed tell it like it is, not the fairy tales that you Liberals swallow, hook, line, and sinker.
          Unless you’re part of the machinery, djdrew, the Politically Connected are making a fool out of you.

  • Ronbo

    Bob is a rich twit nit-wit. Why should wealthy individuals pay more than someone earning minimum wage? Because one group has surplus milliions and the other group goes deeper into debt just feeding themselves. Where do you go if you want to purchase groceries? Not to the dump. You go where the food is located. Where do you get taxes? You go where there is surplus money (and it is NOT going back into the economy – the job creators are NOT creating jobs).

    • JC

      Ok, you realize of course that your statement might have come from Mao himself right? You’re going after the wrong problem. The problem is CRONYISM. Get the GD Government out of the markets and abolish income tax altogether. NOW you have a level playing field.

      Or, just be a real simpleton and do your best to remove all motivation and innovation from our way of life in your efforts to make things “fair”, which by the way is a concept of children and communists. It doesn’t exist in nature or the real world.

      • babybikerbabe

        Thank you.

        This is one of the most accurate, concise responses to left-wing nonsense I’ve ever read.

        I’d like to shake your hand. :-)

        • JC

          I would enjoy that, I’m sure.

      • JeffH

        JC, thanks, you said it while I read it…”simpleton” is the first word that popped in my head…Hear hear!

      • Chris Schilke

        I agree; get rid of the income taxes, corporate taxes and the property taxes. Property taxes are a means for rich people to steal poor peoples properties. There are no real fair ways to collect taxes as someone will always have a problem with it. The only fair tax in my opinion is a sales tax where you can see how much is spent on taxes. Our system hides the real burden of tax on the people in the form of corporate taxes that are just added into the cost of products and services bought by poor people then they pay sales taxes on top of the hidden corporate taxes. Do away with all of that nonsense. Possibly there could be something like a “flat tax” or just a sales tax but those don’t allow the government to hide its real taxing power from the people. I can see the government crooks giggling behind everybody’s back ever time the people cry out for higher corporate taxes on those evil greedy corporations they work for. The vast amount of consumer products and services are bought and paid for by the average person who are already paying forty percent or more of their income into income taxes then they have to pay the corporations taxes with what they have left. It’s no wonder that it’s so hard to get ahead. But there is another problem that most people have: they don’t know what to do with what they earn anyway and no matter what their hard earned income will always find its way into the pockets of those who are much more skilled at accumulating wealth.

      • eyeswideopen

        JC,just one question. How are you going to pay for that awesome military that we have?? Oops guess you kinda forgot that the reason our fore fathers gave congress the right to tax us, was to protect us?? Just another nut case running loose and spreading the goose stepping GOP mantra.

        • DaveH

          A True Flat Tax?
          Oh, but that wouldn’t work for people who insist on spending other peoples’ money, would it now, Liberal?

          • JTB

            You tell em Dave. Stupid Liberals! Let them give all they want just leave the rest of us “normal” people who work for a living alone!

        • DaveH

          And actually, Eyes, our Forefathers DIDN’T give Congress the right to tax us. They gave Congress the right to tax the States. It wasn’t until 1913 that the Power Brokers foisted the 16th Amendment on us.

        • JC

          Well Gee Eyes…did it ever occur to you in your simple little outlook that we are supporting half the planet in welfare fashion?
          have you ever wondered where all that tax money actually goes? How much is completely wasted? How irresponsible our government is allowed to be because they can just keep going back to the “money out of thin air”, money tree?
          Have you ever had a “complete thought”

          I’m talking about the infrastructure of America and the fact that it would be easily supported buy point of sale taxation which couldn’t be much more “fair” as yoy communists like to put it…not taxation to support globalist imperialism.

          Goose step THAT, idiot!

          • JeffH

            JC, why does “simple” have to be made complicated? So often these libs consider themselves to be “independent thinkers” and they are 100% right about that idea.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Did you read the article? He said it is not going back into the economy, but into offshore banking ventures, because of the government wanting to take 35 percent of it. Dont blame that on successful business’s, blame that on a bloated government that takes and takes and takes from the successful. That is what causes that problem. And again, just as the article said, just think if they didnt tax all that money, how many jobs would be created by business if they were allowed to keep that money here. Read the article please.

      • http://www.roman-empire-america-now.com/Roman-Empire-blog.html Douglas C. Smyth

        Businesses don’t “create” jobs, demand for products and services creates them. Businesses are not hiring, are sitting on their piles of cash, not because of regulations, not much because of not knowing what’s coming next, but mostly because there is too little demand for whatever they’re selling for additional hiring to be justified.

        Further, when businesses do hire, they hire overseas: cheaper labor, and yes, because our tax system encourages them to make profits over there instead of over here.

        The corporate income tax may be higher here, but corporations don’t pay it: they find all sorts of ways to avoid paying it, but they still want to do business here. The solution would be to plug up those avoidance loopholes, not lower taxes: the corporate contribution to the revenues that pay for all our needed services has gone DOWN precipitately since the ‘good ol’ days’ of the 1950′s.

        Further, the income tax is not the largest tax most people pay: those who are not high income earners pay more in the payroll tax, property tax (often invisible if they rent) and sales taxes, than in income tax. If Herman Cain had his way, they’d pay a lot more and the people who complain about being in the top income tax bracket would pay much much less.

        • JC

          That’s a pretty fair assessment, but let’s take it a step further…
          Demand is down…why?

        • DaveH

          Demand drives an economy? That is Liberal Propagandist Clap Trap. Productive Capital Investment drives an economy, and we can’t get that when Government is spending 40% of our GDP and regulating our businesses literally to death.
          Perhaps, Douglas, you could explain to all of us, how if demand drives economies, the countries on the bottom of this list who have the Biggest Governments also have the poorest economies? Are they just coincidentally the countries with the least demand? Not very likely.
          http://www.heritage.org/index/Ranking

          • DaveH

            Those who want to break out of the Liberal Prison of Ignorance can read this:
            http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

          • Buddy

            My wife’s father had a saying which does resonate: “What you want won’t make you fat”.

            That truism seems to shoot-down that comment: “Demand drives the economy”.

          • independant thinker

            “Demand drives an economy? That is Liberal Propagandist Clap Trap. Productive Capital Investment drives an economy,…”

            It takes both demand and productive investment. If there is no demand for something all the investment in the world will do no good. By the same token if there is no productive capital investment all the demand in the world will gert you nothing.

          • DaveH

            Read this, Independent:
            http://mises.org/daily/4284

          • eddie47d

            Demand does drive the economy so maybe Dave should get off of his pony and quite talking smack about “ignorant Liberals”. Instead of just explaining what else drives the economy he leads off with name calling. Atta boy Dave! How many times have we heard this is a consumer nation and folks wanting something and demanding a product drives the economy. Bush himself said that a few times …”go out and shop”. When people wanted newer and better homes the builders saw that demand and built thousands of them. When everyone wanted a computer the demand was huge and more were manufactured. They didn’t build the houses and computers hoping the demands was there. The demand came then the product was built or until no one wanted that particular product anymore then DEMAND dropped. Demand can raise an economy or cause it to falter like it doing now.

          • DaveH

            Did you read the article, Ignoramus?
            Of course you didn’t. It’s much easier to spout your useless nonsense than to educate yourself.
            Perhaps you could explain to me why it is that the countries with the Biggest Governments are also the poorest countries? Are you trying to tell us that all of those countries also just don’t demand anything?
            Funny that almost every time I turn on the TV, there are all those OWS whiners demanding things. No demand my butt.

          • eddie47d

            Your arguing just to be arguing Dave and I’m not your ignoramus. You can be such a hotheaded loser.

          • JeffH

            eddie, quit being an idiot…the job creators(producers)drive the economy…

            I fully agree with Austrian economist, Mark Skousen, who says this…“The truth is that consumer spending does not account for 70 percent of economic activity and is not the mainstay of the U.S. economy. Investment is!” He explains:

            Business spending on capital goods, new technology, entrepreneurship and productivity are more significant than consumer spending in sustaining the economy and a higher standard of living.

            In the business cycle, production and investment lead the economy into and out of a recession…
            http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/commentary-mainmenu-43/9547-consumers-dont-drive-the-economy-producers-do

          • independent thinker

            DaveH I stand by my statement as I said it. Neither can stand exclusive of the other.

          • DaveH

            Independent,
            The issue was that the economy is bad because there isn’t enough demand. I really don’t understand what you’re trying to prove. Of course if there’s no supply, the demand can’t be met. Duh. That wasn’t the issue that I spoke against.
            Did you read the article I linked to?

          • eddie47d

            Dave and Jeff are talking in circles. If there wasn’t a demand for widgets no one would be producing widgets.

          • DaveH

            Was there a demand for Ipods before 2001, Eddie? What an ignoramus.
            Again, the issue is whether lack of demand is driving the bad economy. Those without jobs (thanks to Big Government) can’t demand very much, now can they?

          • Vicki

            Eddie47d. Producers CREATE demand. Example Ipod. Example records. Example “fashion” clothes. Example fancy cars. Example fancy food. Example Restaurants.

            And that is just the surface.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, Dave, Dave, you are failing economics 101. Shall I post all the websites that state Demand is the fundamental of an economy? I thought you went to college on the taxpayers dime? You didn’t learn enough and I want my money back. LOL. http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp#axzz1cCHRzNir

          • DaveH

            You can post all the ignorant Liberal economic articles you want, Eyes, and you can post all the ignorant personal attacks you want, but that does not mean you have a clue about economics. You could, of course, address my points instead of the personal attacks, but then that would take some knowledge wouldn’t it?
            Read this and get some knowledge:
            http://mises.org/journals/qjae/pdf/qjae12_2_4.pdf

          • Vicki

            DaveH writes:
            “You (eyeswideopen) can post all the ignorant Liberal economic articles you want,”

            Actually Eyes posted a link to a well understood element of economics. Unfortunately Eyes failed to comprehend that the article was discussing the elementary law of supply/demand which sets the price of things and is not the driving force of an economy.

          • DaveH

            Yes, Vicki, I didn’t read the link. Big Whoop. Did I say I did?

          • Vicki

            DaveH writes:
            “Yes, Vicki, I didn’t read the link. Big Whoop. Did I say I did?”

            No you did not say that you had read the link. You DID imply that the link was like so many (of the very few links liberals provide) just another ignorant Liberal economic article.

            I know you may not have meant to imply that but since the link was NOT it does give credence in the eyes of observers who read our posts, to eyeswideopen and other liberals here. Or lt lowers your credibility in the eyes of those same observers. (Or both)

            We care (The big whoop :) ) because it is not eyeswideopen to whom we speak but to those observers.

          • DaveH

            Vicki,
            What do you gain from eating your own?
            Yes, that particular article (which I didn’t read before) was not Liberal, but most that Eyes posts are.
            And, of course I know what the concept of supply and demand is.
            In fact, I was out painting and I’m thinking what question could I ask the economic wizard that she couldn’t just look up easily (not you, but Eyes).
            So, here it is Eyes. What is the economic feature called that determines whether or not at an individual decides to spend his money now or later? You can do it, Eyes, you economic wizard you.

          • Vicki

            DaveH writes:
            “So, here it is Eyes. What is the economic feature called that determines whether or not at an individual decides to spend his money now or later?”

            Good question Dave. I look forward to seeing Eyes’s answer :)

        • JeffH

          Douglas, when you said…”Businesses don’t “create” jobs, demand for products and services creates them.”

          Demand is fueled by need which is fueled by income which is fueled by the job creators…job creators that are shackled with government meddling, high taxes, burdensome regulations and an unstable economy aren’t going to just “throw their money away”. Would you?

          They didn’t become successful by being stupid and if and when those burdens on the job creators are relieved and the economic climate make a positive move forward the job creators will create jobs which will put people back to work which will create a cash flow for the consumer which will create a demand foe products. It’s actually that simple.

          • DaveH

            Good job, Jeff.

          • Vicki

            demand is fueled by many things. Need is just one. Example no one needs an IPod but there is a great demand for them.

            -Vicki-

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I dont know where you live and what kind of property taxes you pay, but I assure you, I am not wealthy, and I also assure you, that one month of my federal income taxes, would pay my property taxes on my home, and my home is a nice ranch, small, about 1400 sq. feet, and it is only 24 years old. My property taxes are miniscule compared to what the federal government takes from me in income tax, let alone when you add up the state income tax and the local income tax. The Local income tax comes close to being what my property tax bill is.

    • LibRep

      No, Ronbo didn’ read the article. If he had, he would know it was Chip Wood that wrote it, not Bob Livingston.

      Ronbo, you should study Austrian economics. Taxes affect behavior. As Peter Schiff told the OWS crowd, if you’re going to tax me when I start making more than $2 Million a year, I’m only going to work to earn $2 Million and go play golf the rest of the year.

      I would prfer the government get out of this “charity” mentality thinking it has to take care of everyone by taking FROM everyone when we can do just fine taking care of ourselves.

      • DaveH

        The first thing we all need to learn is that Government’s “charity mentality” is a red-herring. The Politicians, the Bureaucrats, and their Crony Capitalists, are doing it for themselves. That is all. The Charity Mask is simply a tool they use to sucker the envious to vote for the Politicians who pay the Bureaucrats who aid the favored Crony Capitalists with competition-stifling regulations. It’s all a game used by the Politically Powerful to sheer the rest of us:
        http://mises.org/daily/5776/The-State-Is-the-1-Percent

        • ChristyK

          I really enjoyed the Mises article.

          Most politicians don’t give charity because they care. They give “charity” to gain control. If they can get people reliant on the government to supply their basic needs, then those that “give charity” will never get voted out of office no matter how much the people disagree with their policies or how frustrated they are with the politician’s dishonest behavior. They want to eat. It is a form of slavery that many Americans have chosen. So sad.

          • JC

            It’s also about control…which is why we are giving (borrowed out of thin air) money to nearly every country on the planet…”control”.
            And the American tax serf gets the bill. Good system huh?

      • Buddy

        Actually, the politicians are not into “charity”. They are simply electioneering. Do you think that politicians would be giving away other peoples’ money if they didn’t think that such would buy them votes?

      • mito

        What a bunch of horsesh$$^! You don’t make money to get into a certain tax bracket – you make money to make money; to conquer; to outdo your peers. I have done very well for myself in the markets and with real estate and I have NEVER ONCE “stopped working” because of potential tax consequences. More Joe-the-plumber mentality nonsense. And you know what happens in small business, where you do manage your tax burden? Of course you don’t – you are an armchair bazillionaire, nothing more. You put that potential “profit” back into the business; you turn it into an expense. Walla – no more tax burden. And what has been accomplished? You grew the business, made it stronger, created more jobs. That’s right – not wanting to pay taxes CAN work in favor of the nation if we don’t keep handing over everything to the Chinese through lobbyists. Do any of you guys realize the middle class takes it in the ass to PAY FOR the rich guy’s taxes that they are ducking? YOU pay for them. The taxes on their salary HAS NOTHING to do with their business’ profits. Their salary is an EXPENSE to that business.

        • DaveH

          You pay when they don’t dodge their taxes. They just raise their product prices, or pay their workers less, or lay them off. Every dollar of tax paid enriches the Politicians and their Buds. The rest of us pay the bill.

        • Vicki

          Mito says:
          “Do any of you guys realize the middle class takes it in the ass to PAY FOR the rich guy’s taxes that they are ducking? ”

          Do YOU realize that the rich guy doesn’t duck taxes. He pays taxes on his salary just like you pay on yours. YOU do however pay ALL the taxes that government charges a business the moment you buy a product from that business. And then to add insult you pay sales tax on that tax.

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      Wow, did you just read Carl Marx’s Communist Manifesto?

      Our problem isn’t lack of tax revenues. Our problem is that we spend WAY TOO MUCH on non constitutionally mandated stupidity. Stop the spending and you solve the problem. Stop the waste and you stop the problem. Mike George’s ‘Strong American Now’ has it right http://www.strongamericannow.com

      • Buddy

        You’re mostly right except the use of “we”. We don’t do a lot of things that are done in our names and with our money.

    • JJM

      You have to realize that as soon as the wealthy are hit with more taxes, more loopholes, credits and deductions will suddenly be available to keep the ‘donations’ the same.
      Some variation of the 9-9-9 plan is the best way to get every votor to have ‘skin in the game’ at election time. Meanwhile, I will continue to support the accounting industry by employing my CPA to be sure I am not paying more than legally required.
      Tax every $ earned above $12,000, xx%. If any deductions, let it be limited to charity, medical and perhaps education.

      • Buddy

        JJM; Please define “education”. A lot of the stuff masquerading as “education” is indoctrination paid for by contributions to nice life styles of the overeducated academics. Of course, some of those academics are sincere (sincerely mistaken).

      • ChristyK

        If you allow any deductions (other than possibly a deduction for each member of the family) you open the door to add more and more loopholes which leads us back to where we are now. No deductions. Period.

      • ChristyK

        I actually prefer eliminating all federal taxes and going to a federal sales tax(possibly the fair tax) but wouldn’t support the federal sales tax until the 16th amendment was repealed because I don’t want any chance of having both. The government is too good at splitting up the taxes so we don’t realize how much the government is really taking.

        A federal sales tax is better because it keeps our 4th amendment right of freedom from search & seizure (which is currently ignored enforcing the income tax). The IRS is also notorious for considering people guilty until proven innocent rather than the innocent till proven guilty which is supposed to be the case. I also like that people see they are paying the sales tax everyday. They will complain more about out-of-control spending when they see the tax daily rather than having it taken out before they ever see it as withholding. People will not be penalized for saving and will not be double and triple taxed. It will be easier to police a few businesses rather than all individuals. People who now work “under the table” or are illegals will have to pay sales tax whenever they buy something so it will be harder for certain populations to avoid paying their taxes.

        • crisscross

          It is amazing that in most discussions about federal tax scheme choices, there is rarely concern about the erosion of personal rights protected by the 4th Amendment. The assault on this fundamental liberty by the income tax and the IRS should be a core consideration for any replacement federal tax scheme, and so should the goals of reclaiming our freedoms and controlling intrusive government. This will not be possible so long as we retain the IRS and keep tinkering with any form of federal income tax. This is the unfortunate trap of the flat tax. A broadened consumption tax base will help to change our entitlement mentality since virtually everyone would have skin in the game with a natural tendency to limit their shared tax burden. This highly-visible tax, with a reminder each time a purchase is made, would be a healthy deterrent to class warfare and more natural limit on the growth of government. Exemptions on certain necessities could relieve the poor, and the more the rich consume on items that inspire envy, the more they will pay. If this fairer, broader tax base can’t afford a rate increase, then government is likely too big. Circumventing this concept will only lead to inequitable shifts based on class with all of the the political opportunism, special interests, crony capitalism and entitlement demagoguery and inequitable, unsustainable compromises that go with it. The moral hazard of soaking the rich is the broken, unfair, divisive and unsustainable class-warfare system we have now. It’s time to get the federal government, accountants, auditors, tax collectors, tax attorneys and other unnecessary intrusions and expenses out of our personal lives and reclaim some of the freedom we were supposed to enjoy as envisioned by our Founders.

          • DaveH

            So, the intrusions into the lives of the affected sellers is Okay? And who knows how far reaching that could be? Will they make me pay sales taxes for personal goods I sell on Ebay? Nobody knows. For instance in the past, the concept of income taxing home gardens and parking spaces has been promoted. With Government, anything is possible.
            Also, at least in the case of the so-called Fair Tax, there is a rebate for each family which will effectively create a whole class of people who don’t pay taxes for their Federal Government, just as we have now.

      • mito

        The 9-9-9 plan was written in crayon. What kind of imbecile thinks its a good idea to have a nearly 20% tax on goods in a Capitalist society??? Here’s a chart that shows exactly how the working class would be paying significantly higher taxes with 999, and how the wealthiest would be paying a tiny fraction under the plan: http://craphound.com/images/Average-tax-change-from-9-9-9-plan-10-18-2011-OPTfull.jpg

        • crisscross

          That’s the beauty of a consumption tax. Besides protecting our rights under the 4th Amendment, it’s highly visible. When rates rise to the point of offending the common tax base (probably below 20%), it becomes highly objectionable in the eyes of the majority of the electorate. It’s a great self-regulating force against expanding government and entitlement programs that even an imbecile can understand. It’s the punitive progressive tax mentality of Marxist morons that would tax producers at rates of 50% or more that needs to change in order to assure equal treatment under the law and a healthy economy based on incentive and innovation.

    • DaveH

      Duh, Ronbo, that wouldn’t be because the Government is taxing them and regulating them to death, would it? Nah, let’s just keep being Ignorant and growing Government ever larger. It has worked so well for Cuba, and Zimbabwe, and North Korea.

      • eyeswideopen

        Seems to be working for the majority of the civilized industrialized nations, who also have strong unions who represent the workers! Such an anomally don’t you think? They also don’t have such an extreme disparity in wages as we do. You are comparing us to dictatorships? You are smoking the wrong stuff, try some home grown and since you haven’t liked this country since the 1800′s just leave and the rest of us will fix the problems without you.

        • DaveH

          Oh, it is?
          http://mises.org/daily/5632/Freedom-and-Economic-Growth-in-the-Poorest-Countries
          Instead of your ignorant personal attacks and generalizations, Eyes, why don’t you spend some time studying? Or do you have a vested interest in helping the 1% of Politicians, Bureaucrats, and Crony Capitalists who are helping themselves to the assets of the rest of the people?

        • JC

          eyeswideopen says:
          October 29, 2011 at 1:45 pm
          Seems to be working for the majority of the civilized industrialized nations,

          You mean like the Eurozone that’s going down in flames?
          Good Lord, Eyes…did you just get to this planet?

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Ronbo, Would you invest your time, energy, and resources into an endeavor that would create jobs in today’s economic climate? I know that I would not. I am in the process of hiding my families wealth and participating in the underground economy, to prevent thieves like you from stealing it from us.

      • eyeswideopen

        Capitalist, quite driving on my roads, using my electric, and while you are at it, just get the hell out of here. I doubt that you got rich on your own. Someone along the way helped you, certainly our infrastructure has taken to work and back every day and those roads are not paid for by just you. You are the example of someone who made it, thinking they did it all on their own. Bull hockey!! You probably also got your education paid for by the United States Taxpayers and you aren’t willing to give a thing back to your country. You are a scoundrel and selfish to the max. You took everything this country had to offer and resent having to help pay for it. Take your mone;y and get the hell out!!

        • DaveH

          When you pay for somebody’s dinner, do you think they owe you sex? Don’t try to obligate people for unsolicited gifts, lowlife.
          Whatever money the Government does distribute to “help” somebody always must come from somebody else, one way or the other. And those victims of your theft would most likely have spent their own money much more productively than does the Government.
          So, you leave, Eyes. You’re the one who is going against the grain of everything that made this country great.

        • DaveH

          Read here to see what Eyeswideshut’s probable hero did during the Great Depression:
          http://rayharvey.org/index.php/tag/obamas-economic-policies/

          From the article — “Republicans in Kentucky were told that they would have to change party affiliations if they wanted to keep their WPA jobs”.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, thanks for the link…I’ve added it to my favorite list.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I went to public school, so yes the taxpayers paid for it. But gee whiz eyes, didnt my parents pay property taxes the whole time I went? And now that they are in their mid eighties, and havent had any kids in school for over 40 years, they are still paying property taxes which is used for the schools? So I think my “tax payer” education has been fully paid for, and in fact, Ive been paying these property taxes for over 35 years now, and I havent had children in school for 6 years and Im still paying, so I believe my “taxpayer” education has been fully paid for by my parents, and my childrens were paid for by me. Now go away and come back when you have something of meritorius value.

    • Old Henry

      Ronbo:

      Who are you, or anyone else, to dictate what is surplus money for anyone? YOu sound like a Communist, pure and simple. You think right along the same lines as the Communist in OUR WH and his minions in Congress.

      Why don’t you get the hell out of our country and move to Cuba?

  • Mutantone

    And still his company is fighting paying their taxes

    • Paula

      That’s what gets me. People need to use their search engines instead of this blind faith on word.

  • Joe

    If Buffett is so concerned with the rich paying more why doesn’t he call off his legal dogs and pay the billion he owes to the IRS.
    One reason he is a phony of the highest order.

    • JC

      Better yet, why don’t we get rid of the IRS which is an unConstitutional Agency that collects interest for the banksters and is answerable to no one…and hire some good accountants to budget the country’s infrastructure? Which would be paid for, and easily covered with point of sale taxes.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You are correct. The IRS is a billion dollar drain on all of us tax payers. Dump the federal income tax, and dump the IRS.

        • Rick

          An income tax is the fairist way to collect taxes to pay for the things that our constitution says pur federal; government is supposed to do for us. Those thigns do not include Foriegn Aid,or hand outs to every whiner on the planet. The way to make if fair is make it honest. if you make over $ 20,000a year xx% no deductions. This would maen that a business that reinvestes money it makes would not be taxed until they show it as a profit not working capitol. the same Idea applies to corprate income tax. Let’s lloks at some thing basic math if it costs a company $ 5.00 in matereials and labor to make an item and they charge $8.00 for it that’s $ 3.00 profitand that’s the part that gets taxed so how does it get added on to the cost of the product? All free trade agreements do is make this country less able to compete with countries with low compesation for workers. Look at GM for example, They lay off the guy in say Flint, MI that makes their Buick Lesabre, and move the work to a plant in Mexico. It now costs a few hundred dollars less to make that car. But who was youyr best customer? the guy in Flint. he can now not buy your product because he is making a third of his previous wage. The guy you now hired in Mexico can’t because he is making even less then the guy from Flint so who can now afford your car? Have you really gained?Just food for thought.

          • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gilly

            I somehow doubt you or Capalitalist have ever operated a business or rented out any property to suggest there should no deductions for any rental expenses or interest or the multitude of other expenses which are needed for any enterprise which if not permitted to be deducted against gross income, no one would be in business for longer than 12 months if they even bothered to bother about doing anything legally.

            And anyone who think they can hide their wealth is quiet ignorant as it is pretty much impossible to hide assets or wealth without being lost faster than doing it the open way. Some of the comments in this forum beggars belief…lol really. How will any bank lend you money on hidden assets? Hidden assets are lost assets. Look at all those people who invested and hidden with Madoff…lost it all. All those other experts who got their friends into derivatives, share deals, options….most lost it all…never coming back. Look at the history of hidden treasures….lost and people still looking centuries later…Wake up America..

      • Lastmanstanding

        Because that would be to logical and simple…It is the confusion ploy that “it’s over your head, trust us.”

        • death to non believers

          these are lawyers who pass these tax code laws. it is intensionally written in jibberish. if they were written so a person could understand the code, a lot of lawyers would be out of jobs.
          if buffet wants to help our gove debt, voluntarily send a few tons of his cash to the irs, instructions are on the 1040 form, if u ever read one.

          • JC

            And we’re back to paying homage to the IRS…that didn’t last long!

          • independant thinker

            JC you play the hand you are dealt until you can get a new hand.

          • JC

            Fair enough Independant…I think we’re going to be getting some new cards soon enough ;)

  • CP

    Joe, Mr. Buffett is talking about his personal taxes, as opposed to the corporate taxes that are being protested. I know of NO savvy businessman who isn’t going to protest any taxes he believes are improperly assessed.

    • eddie47d

      The wealthy keep taking a bigger and bigger piece of the pie and some are giving less and less back. Some say they have earned it all and I say:says who. A sizable number of wealthy make money off of money and don’t do a lick of work. The system has been gamed long ago and they set their own rules and standards in gaining their wealth. So once again who says they earned it. I could write myself a check for 1 million but that wouldn’t make me a millionaire. That is how some of the wealthy do it by handing themselves checks each and every week. Without lifting a finger in producing anything.Yes sir they run the circus and we are the clowns in their parade of fools.

      • JeffH

        The only thing being “gamed” is your mind…gamed by your own imagination!

      • JeffH

        …and eddie, you may want to read this piece by Paul Ryan…You love to deamonize “all of the rich elites” but you fail miserably. Without the partnership of “Big Government”, the crony-capitalists couldn’t just sit back and “write their own checks”.

        Rep. Paul Ryan D-Wi
        The Journal Times
        Jan, 2010

        Big businesses’ frenzied political dealings are not driven by party or ideology, but rather by zero-sum thinking in which their gain must come from a competitor’s loss. Erecting barriers to competition is a key to maintaining advantage and market share. With Washington leading the way, it makes sense for the big boys to redirect their resources to their lobbying shop and government affairs office. They’re far less interested in expanding the economic pie than with making certain that they get their slice.

        To be clear, the federal government should not stack the deck against big businesses either. The government does not have a stake in the fight between David and Goliath – our only concern is to make certain that it is a fair fight. The government today is far from an unbiased arbitrator, and it is smothering dreams and stifling growth.

        We’ve been down this road before. There was a time in this country when the airlines, railroads, the energy sector, trucking and bus industry were all firmly under government control. The problem was not only excessive government meddling, but large established firms cooperating to protect their market share and erect barriers to new entrants.

        …The economic costs of rejecting democratic capitalism in favor of a European social welfare state include stagnant growth, permanent high unemployment, and an inferior standard of living for generations to come. As power further centralizes in Washington, the incentives for corruption rise exponentially. The gravest of consequences falls upon the cultural and moral fiber of our society. The triumph of crony capitalism would mark a swift departure from the responsible, self-reliant citizenry that built our nation’s prosperity.

        We cannot lose our commitment to individual liberty – a commitment we’ve shed blood to defend in generations past. The American idea cannot be defeated.

        This is not a contest for one political party, one sector of our economy, or one segment of the population. We all stand to lose as crony capitalism drains the life from our economy; but we all stand to gain from the fruits that genuine, vigorous, free market competition provides.
        http://www.journaltimes.com/app/paul_ryan/post.php?id=153

        • eddie47d

          I’m not failing miserabally if I expose the real Wall Street and you can’t see when you’ve been conned.You seem to accept it as normal business and resurrect excuses in their defense. Ryan did make some great comments especially when he said “their gain come from a competitors loss”. That was classic American and so true.Competition is good if conducted fairly yet when you have two companies selling $1000 TV’s and one drops the price to $500 the other company could easily be driven out of business. We see that all the time and all that is is capitalistic cannibalism.Businesses are not honest with consumers and we have been programed to accept their methods. Some stores have sales every week,”the biggest sale ever” well what about the “biggest sale ever” they had the week before and the one before that? Instead of having steady dependable prices they have turned Americans into shopping lemmings. Yes indeed we have been gamed.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Come on eddie, dont be shy, go ahead and say what you think. Taxes are all Bush’s fault. You know you want to say it, you just cant figure out yet how to blame him for it.

        • JeffH

          eddie, you’re simply a failure, a “useful idiot”. Your constant harping thathedge fund managers and Wall Street is stealing everyones money, the “rich elite” never earned their money, “they stole it”, corporationas and especially CEO’s aren’t worth what they make and get in bonuses is nothing more than community organizer Marxist inspired class envy.

          Until you come to realize that it is “Big Government”(including the Federal Reserve) that props up and supports the crony-capitalists you’ll just continue down your little path of being one of the “class envy” usefull idiots crowd.

          Here’s something you might consider educating your self with from former congressman David Stockman who was an “insider” and Director of the OMB during the Reagan administration.

          What now exists at the heart of the U.S. economy, Stockman argues, is “crony capitalism” – a system that benefits and even rigs the system in favor of America’s banks and bankers at the cost of average Americans. It’s a system built on the back of government-issued bailouts and free money. “The Fed is the great enabler” through its free money policies, which “generate results the market wouldn’t otherwise provide for,” he says.
          http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/david-stockman-crony-capitalism-killed-free-market-democracy-120004233.html

          • JC

            Exactly right Jeff.

          • eddie47d

            I never said there wasn’t big government or crony capitalism. Since you are in the name calling business…surprise surprise…maybe you are the failure or useful idiot. When you wake up on what is going on inside the halls of Wall Street let me know. Until then you are not much more than a chirpy little crow.

          • JeffH

            …and eddie you’re still a useful idiot…

          • JC

            And once again Jeff we see eddie in his intellectual superiority regressing to the automatic gamesaying of whatever he doesn’t like…I don’t know if that’s more like a schoolyard imbecile or a parrot…

          • JeffH

            Well JC, I think we may agree that it is both… :)

      • Vicki

        Eddie47d writes:
        “So once again who says they earned it.”

        Who says they didn’t? If they did not steal it then they earned it.

        Eddie47d: “I could write myself a check for 1 million but that wouldn’t make me a millionaire.”

        Ben Bernanke does that every second. I think it is called QE(insert a number here. Up to 3 I think)

        Eddie47d: “That is how some of the wealthy do it by handing themselves checks each and every week.”

        They may or may not hand themselves checks every week but it is THEIR money and it is money they actually have.

  • http://yahoo Skyraider6

    more of the same BS smaller gov. smarter politicians is the way to go watch how you vote and who you vote FOR

    • Buddy

      Not so sure. We’re doing badly enough with stupid politicians – - with smarter ones we’d probably be even more subjected to totalitarianism.

  • TOCB

    I have to say I agree that the current tax code is too complicated and unfair. It may have been effective in the beginning but it hasn’t kept up with the changes in the country’s financial structure. Our government needs to be as dynamic as our society is. That doesn’t mean the government should change with every societal whim, but it should change to meet the needs of society. Our government seems to be stuck in the 20th century, the early 20th century. This is also the case with health care insurance. With a population of over 300 million people it is insane for us to have a private insurace industry as the dominate health care insurer. They could probably serve a small sector or our population, but the majority should be a single payer system.Why? Because it is efficient and effective. It has nothing to do with politics.

    • Alex

      A single payer system for healthcare? effective? Well, so long as you can produce you’ll get healthcare, when you get older say around 55 and begin to need glasses, can’t move as quickly or that bad knee you have just doesn’t want to work as it use to. They’ll cut off your ‘healthcare’ and maybe talk to you about ‘easing your burden on society and your children’ by ‘killing yourself’. When the government provides it’s never a good thing for the people. Because they can turn it off whenever they want, like currently they are thinking of raising the SS retirement age to 70.. (which they have in theory already) Since most people get the SS letters saying that ‘if’ you work until 70.. You’ll get XXX amount more, but they are expecting people to die in those extra 5 years, since the average lifespan of a man is about 71-71, women 72-73. So fewer years they would have to pay for. Free market, private insurance companies allowed to compete across state lines will provide cheaper and better insurance than gov’ which makes Trillions from it’s own investments.

      CAFR-1

      • freddiwith

        You do realize that the magical age of 65 for Soc. Sec. was originally set because most people didn’t live past 65. FDR himself died at the age of 63 and so never collected Soc. Sec. It was not set up in the beginning to be paying out for 10 or 20 years or more like it is now, because as my father said when he got old and had health problems: “Our problem is we live too long.” And what is the quality of life for most “old folks”? Sure some do just great, but my gosh when people in their 50s are getting hip and knee replacements en masse, I’m wondering…….

        • JC

          Social Security is anything but “secure”. It’s a slush fund for whatever bizarre programs DC wants to fund. And! This is important…it’s an excuse to tax the ever loving hell out of you and then let you look forward to slow starvation while collecting…”Social Security”. You’d be much better off keeping the money you earn and seeing to your own retirement. You’d be motivated too…

      • ChristyK

        It is called social security insurance not a pension. A pension is guaranteed. Insurance only works when many pay and only a few collect. When you work for 45 years and collect for 20 years, you would need to w/h ~40% (or 20% w/h & 20% emloyer)(in reality even more since the money isn’t invested and dollar printing keeps deflating our currency) of your salary to make it financially viable. There is no way to make that work. Raising the retirement age is the only possibility to make SSI work. It was originally intended to support people who lived significantly longer than the life expectancy so that they had not saved enough retirement. People were still responsible for saving for retirement if they intended to retire.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gilly

        Alex…Society needs losers and lazy spenders, so hard working smarter people can make more money out of them. If everyone owned their own homes, how could we property landlords rent to anyone? If everyone was miserly and overdeucated, the gambling and hotel establishments would close. The police would not need overtime to respond to all the bad behaviour from drunken people and might only need to work part time. If the government did not pay to provide medicare for the poor no hopers who never went to school for a good education and spent all their money, then the doctors would be poorer and all those private hospitals would only be serving the rich and middle classes.

        In Australia the doctors are defacto government workers wealthy medical workers in fact millionaires because everyone has free medical care covered by a levy if you pay tax. Hospital cover can be free too but you may need to wait awhile if you want an elective nose job sometimes an important but not serious matter needs to wait till death, but if urgent most people dont need to wait too long. If others wish better Hospital care private faster care then we take out Private Health Insurance. It works in a caring country like Australia, but i can see why so many of you dont want a fairer society. We are lucky the mexicans have not realised how much better Australia is for people who wish to better themselves, otherwise they would be rushing over here…lol I’m not sure how many more people we could cope with in our country…but they coming in leaky boatloads from everywhere. Please dont tell anyone. from Gillysrooms St Arnaud Vic 3478 Australia

    • Mary

      Finally, able to read, intelligent, common sense talk.

      • DaveH

        Only for those who refuse to educate themselves.

    • DaveH

      So then, TOCB, you advocate monopolies as being the efficient way to go? And in this case, not just a monopoly, but a Government-run monopoly? Run by the same Government that can’t run Social Security, Medicare, the Post Office, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Amtrak, or anything else that it touches?
      Are you completely oblivious to the fact that Socialism has failed wherever it’s been tried? Are you completely oblivious to the fact that our Government has only spent more of our GDP at one other time in history — when we were involved in WWII? And yet, with all that spending, we are in the worst economic slump since the Great Depression?
      Just when do you Liberals throw in the towel? Does our economy have to get as bad as North Korea’s before you accept the fact that Big Government doesn’t work? Probably not even then.

      • freddiwith

        If you read Walter Williams’s column (which was published in our local newspaper today), you will learn that this country is going fascist…..

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Also Dave, our government monopoly on the public school system has worked out real well on top of all the other things you mentioned. Isnt it strange how now that more and more alternative affordable private schools are opening, and how the children are getting much better educations there? Free market our schools, and watch the educations improve dramatically.

    • Buddy

      It is also insane for 300 million people to be ruled by dysfunctional gangs of politicial types in D.C.

  • Greg

    New in Florida. We can buy lottery tickets on the Internet with a credit card. Don’t know the details.

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    interesting fact:
    Why Has Income Gone Up So Much For The Top 1 Percent?
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/10/26/141716961/why-has-income-gone-up-so-much-for-top-earners?sc=emaf

  • Patriot II

    Buffet is NOT a LEADER, I fhe was he would forget about everyone else and Pay his “Fair Share”. Let all the other Rich people floow his lead. Hey Warren, have you ever heard the Phrase: “Lead,Follow, or get out of the way”.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    They set the tax code up, then politicians did the democracy thing, where a majority of them got together and they decided what was good for all of us, in their feeble minds. A democracy is like 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch, you know, and the majority gets their say. But we need liberty from them, and liberty is a well armed Lamb contesting the vote on what the two wolves decided was for lunch, which we all know, was the lamb.

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    Corporations Couldn’t Wait to ‘Check the Box’ on Huge Tax Break

    http://www.propublica.org/article/corporations-couldnt-wait-to-check-the-box-on-huge-tax-break/

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      Perhaps you’ve missed the point. Corporations utilizing tax deductions in order to remain profitable is a GOOD THING. IT means they succeeded at keeping more of their revenue rather that having it confiscated by Washington. Those revenues allow them to make a profit. THAT’S A GOOD THING. Those profits are what goes into new employees, new equipment, and the continued business of their ventures…THOSE ARE ALL GOOD THINGS.

      Take out more in taxes, and the cost of those GOOD THINGS goes up. And those costs necessarily must be passed on to those who purchase the goods of these companies (or corporations, whichever term you like). So, if taxes go up on these businesses, the cost is born by YOU and ME…don’t you realize this basic economic truth? All taxes end up being born by citizens in reality; so STOP the insanity of giving more money to Uncle Scam!! Make our government run on 10% rather than 38% of my income. I think that sounds very fair.

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        I know you did not open let alone read the link so here is just a little piece of it

        The Senate panel also heard testimony from a law professor suggesting that American companies are not so disadvantaged.

        Reuven Avi-Yonah, head of the international tax program at the University of Michigan Law School, testified that large European countries have stricter rules when it comes to taxing profits made outside their country. Japan and Germany recently have made it harder for corporations there to avoid taxes or shift income to lower-taxed jurisdictions, he said.

        In an earlier interview, Avi-Yonah said it would take a comprehensive approach by Washington to curb the ability of corporations to find new loopholes.

        “It’s a problem to only close specific loopholes instead of addressing the issue in a general way,” he said. “Companies simply find new ways to replace the approaches shut down by authorities.”

        Meanwhile, check-the-box deals “are going like crazy,” according to one prominent tax lawyer who helps structure such transactions. He declined to be named for fear of jeopardizing his job but added: “I can design these a thousand different ways.”

        • DaveH

          What do you expect when you get your news from NPR?
          Why don’t you try reading at a site with Real Economists, Sgt, and get thee some education, instead of taking the easy route of spoon-fed Hopes and Dreams dished out to the class-enviers by those who hope to keep you enslaved?
          http://mises.org/

        • independant thinker

          Germany with the highest corporate tax rate in europe atill has a lower rate than the US and the rest of europe has a significantly lower corporate tax rate than Germany.

          • mito

            “Tax rate” and “effective tax rate” are 2 very different things. US corporations in reality pay the lowest rate in 60 years, due to write-offs, loopholes, etc.

          • Erich

            In 2011 the effective corporate tax rate, including trade tax and solidarity tax is about 30%-33%.

            Germany individual income tax rates,2011 Tax % Tax Base (EUR)
            0 Up to 8,004 (11,335.58 USD)
            14% 8,005-52,881 (11,335.89-74,877.74 USD)
            42% 52,882-250,730 (74,874.71-355,049.41 USD)
            45% 250,731 and over (355,050.59 USD)

            Note: The rates are before solidarity tax,all individuals,and business tax-for business income.
            Members of the church pay 8%-9% church tax.

            http://www.worldwide-tax.com/germany/germany_tax.asp

        • eddie47d

          You are proof SGT of why I won’t provide links. Dave will always demand that links are provided but when you do it means nothing to him. It’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t so I don’t.His are often one sided so who is he to chirp.

          • DaveH

            You don’t even know how to put a link in your comment, do you Eddie?
            Don’t be afraid, many of us would be glad to help you.
            Or is it just that you don’t provide references because then you’d have to hunt too hard to find something to back up your Fabricated Facts?

          • eddie47d

            There are no FABRICATED FACTS DAVE except in your imagination. You have many links but when you say demand doesn’t drive the economy then you are the one with a screw loose. We don’t have to be snippy with each other but sometimes you DEMAND it.

          • DaveH

            Eddie,
            I’m sorry. I really shouldn’t be arguing with mentally retarded people.

          • eddie47d

            That would be mentally challenged but at least I have mental ability.

          • JeffH

            ROFLMAO & PMP, eddie now admits that he is “mentaly challenged”…about time!

          • DaveH

            Well, at least that’s one fact that he didn’t fabricate, lol.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Avi-Yonah? You want to quote what a foreigner has to say about the way WE should run things here in the USA? That is a big, big problem. We already listen to a bunch of foreigner that run the UN and suck billions out of us, and how is that working out for you? Not so good for the rest of us, I assure you.

    • JeffH

      sarge, this is just another example of crony-capitalism…nothing more, nothing less.

  • Patriot II

    Everyone is missing the real point.

    We need their money.
    They want to invest their money to make more.
    They want to invest it in something that will succeed.
    We need to make it desriable for them to invest in America.

    THAT is what we need to be thinking about here.

  • Sharon

    Abolish 16th amendment (IRS),convert IRS employees to forensic accountants to investigate fraud, & tax spending & imports instead of ‘income’

    • Patriot II

      Sharon:

      Great Idea!

  • Alex

    Well.. Lotteries are ‘voluntary’ tax systems, because of all the money paid into them, more than 1/2 is already gone. For example, if the jackpot was $20 Million, then that means that the state (or group of states) has already cleared $40 Million+. I’ve seen where some lotteries actually have more a 70/30 split, where 30 cents of every dollar goes to the jackpot and 70 percent to the state. So, when they’re talking millions.. They are bringing in the cash hand over fist! So.. how much do they spend of lottery ‘profits’ on state programs? most less than 5% like in this state .015% on schools. The rest of the money? into someone’s pocket or investment fund for them.

    The current ‘tax system’ has been miss-applied since the 60′s, when Congress ‘created’ a voluntary war tax, it was ONLY for TWO YEARS and also had VERY LIMITED application. It did not apply to the majority of Americans working in the Private sector, but with a little vague wording, some regulations that claimed ‘anyone so required by this section’ they duped the people. People who did not owe a dime began sending in their hard earned money. Claiming they were making something they actually were not, of course the hard earned dollars? Where did they go? To the federal reserve and into the offshore trust #62, (ie. to the bankers) Not one thin dime pays for anything in government, most states have surplus taxes but because of new regulations passed in the 70′s, they no longer have to ‘report’ the surplus. Since they actually have TWO SETS OF BOOKS. One is the Annual Financial Report, sent to you and me, the Second is the Confidential Annual Financial Report. Which shows where the ‘extra’ cash is being shoveled into accounts, investments, slush funds.

    Our own government has investments that bring in Trillions! yet they borrow from the Federal Reserve AT interest, and the FED never issues/prints that interest, so their debt (national debt owed BY Congress) can NEVER EVER BE REPAID! Because the ‘interest’ never exists. It’s a sickening ponzi scheme, just like SS and all the rest.

  • Change?

    I think we should completely do away with the IRS and have a simple voluntary tax code, whereas you take care of your family and their needs first and then you voluntarily give what you can afford, not to exceed 10% of your wages. Isn’t the 10% what Obama suggested to students paying off their loans?

    We should also eliminate property taxes. Our government sold land for $1.25 an acre in 1820 and gave people a land patent as rightful ownership to that property. Today people are paying outrageous rent, a.k.a., property taxes on property they rightfully own.

    Where does all that money go – to entitlement programs and handouts to other countries. We need to eliminated welfare, medicaid, food stamps, and those other country bailouts, etc. People need to take responsibility for their own actions and quit relying on others to take care of them and their children while trying to take care of their own families. Taxpayers are paying for all that in addition to all the unnecessary programs this country can do without while the feds are sticking their hands out for even more money to feed those bloated programs. The more programs they create the more burdensome it is to the working class. If the feds got rid of the waste, we wouldn’t even need a tax code period, especially an income and property tax code. What it boils down to is that the collective working class is being forced to pay for their own downfall when they should be shouting ENOUGH IS ENOUGH to our greedy federal government.

    As far as Warren Buffet is concerned, I don’t waste my time listening to trash or trash shows such as the MSM. I do, however, wonder if the MSM is going to start telling the truth after people take back their country. Maybe those untruthful, biased shows will fold and cease to exist.

    • Alex

      Wages?? Do you earn WAGES as that term is defined in Title 26? Or do you earn “private sector earnings”. Since the term ‘wages’ applies to ‘federal employees’ and is not the same in meaning in the private sector.

      The problem is, the current income tax is being miss-applied, it does not apply to most Americans working in the Private Sector, we simply should not be paying (gifting) our money to a private collection agency (IRS) which pays it to the FED and into their offshore trust #62. NONE of it ever goes to government!

      People say.. Oh.. we need a FAIR or FLAT tax, BUT those would be worse than the current system because they would hurt more of the middle class and poor. Even at 9%, since regular people buy food, clothes, etc. etc. The rich have offshore tax free accounts, and pay for everything as an expense and earn no ‘income’. Our ‘tax system’ has been said to be ‘voluntary’ and when the WAR TAX (1961-1962) was passed, it did not apply to Private Sector working Americans, BUT they could voluntarily pay it IF they wanted to. Of course with Millions then and now Billion being paid to the IRS by duped sheeple, I doubt the ‘service’ will tell anyone to stop anytime soon.

      Legal terms and common use terms are totally different, ‘Wages’ and ‘wages’ are not the same, Apples and Oranges.

      • Bob

        Alex, you are 100% WRONG when you say that the Fairtax would hurt the poor and middle class. It benefits EVERY income class. It has been studied by top economists and they agree on every income class coming out ahead and huge growth in the economy. I suggest you learn the Fairtax before spouting off stupid opinions about it.

        • Buddy

          Alex is probably not 100% wrong about the FairTax. Maybe only 75% or 80& wrong because it will hurt some people. Most hurt will be IRS agents.

      • Sam I am

        “Voluntary tax system”? I imagine if I stop paying taxes and stop answering the mail, eventually, my destination will be into the great unknown if you know what I mean…

  • JimMc

    I scanned thru the comments and NO ONE seems to have mentioned the FAIR TAX. You’ve talked about tax reform, getting rid of the IRS, & bringing those trillions of dollars of corporate profits that are offshore back to the US. The FAIR TAX does all of these things and more!!!!!!!!! Please check out FAIRTAX.ORG and learn something!!! Then appeal to Herman Cain’s campaign and urge them to scrap 999 and pledge to support the FAIR TAX if elected. The FAIR TAX bills are already in both houses of Congress. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Alex

      FAIR TAX, FLAT TAX = rubbish.. they would hurt the middle class and poor more than the rich, since they all have tax free offshore accounts, and everything they spend is an expense.. NO income..

      Plus it would allow them (Congress) to raise the percentage whenever they wanted to spend more, 9 percent this year.. then 12%, 15% 21% 28% 36% 45% 62% etc..

      This would be like giving the keys to the prison to the rapists and murders, since they (in Congress) are currently doing that to the people anyways with the current ‘tax’ system.

      • Alex Frazier

        That’s nonsense and propaganda. Please furnish proof of these offshore tax shelters. The current tax code taxes monies held in Switzerland, the Caiman Islands, and other foreign places. You will also find, if you do the research, that places like Switzerland cooperate with the United States government in reporting such holdings by American citizens.

        So again … proof please.

        • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68
          • Alex Frazier

            It’s a very interesting article indeed. Particularly when one considers that the United States has invaded the sovereignty of Switzerland, forced their banks to violate privacy policies in conflict with Swiss law … and all for the sake of less than 5,000 accounts, many of which do not belong to Americans but to Europeans. But if the 5,000 or so accounts were all American, when you compare that to a population of 300 million, those accounts represent 1/10th of 1% of 1% of the American population.

            One can hardly call that the rich hiding money or cheating taxes, any more than one can say certain men are thieves because a man happened to be stealing. There are SOME who will do that which is not lawful. But the some do not constitute the whole.

          • eddie47d

            Alex don’t kid yourself. Some the cruelest,meanest and corrupt dictators have stashed their loot in Switzerland.While many of their countries languished in poverty Switzerland hid their money for them. Wouldn’t that make them complicit in the deal. I didn’t know you liked defending those sinister lawbreakers and leeches on society.How about all the Arab leaders whose countries are barely out of the 13th century yet they have trillions hidden in places like Switzerland. Then we have to spend trillions in bombing their countries to save them for democracy. Maybe if there was more transparency among the Elites of this world there wouldn’t be so much trouble brewing.

          • Alex Frazier

            eddie …

            I know that some, like the Nazis, hid their money there. Those same Nazis were also hanged for their crimes against humanity. Don’t confuse issues by going out on a limb. It’s like saying that guns are bad because a crazy person shot some students in a school. Bad people do bad things, but it doesn’t necessarily have to reflect on the thing itself. Life, liberty, and property are unalienable rights endowed by our creator. No one, for any reason, has the right to confiscate them, and that’s what is being missed.

            If a huge corporation hides their money in Switzerland, then I say, best of luck to them. It’s not my money. I didn’t earn it. I didn’t take a risk to acquire it. I didn’t make the investment that generated it. I didn’t open the business that made it or the products for which that money was the remuneration.

            In short, I don’t have a right to it. What makes you or anyone else think we do?

            Is it because the government, under a false sense of philanthropy, thinks it has the authority to answer all of our woes? The government can’t do anything without the people. If the government proposes to do something, it must first obtain the means through taxation or borrowing. In other words, to build a bridge, it must first acquire the funds through the people in order to pay for the supplies, transportation, labor, and everything else it needs. If the government wants to provide for those who have lost their jobs, they must do so at the expense of those who have not. If the government wants to promote the fine arts, it has to generate the funds through taxes or inflation. When the government decides to get into the student loan business, it can’t do so without cutting out the lending institutions who generate interest from the loans, which increases the capital that is used to see the next generation of students go to college. Meanwhile, the people are taxed to pay for these gratuitous loans that are interest free and diminishing to oblivion after twenty years, so that we the people don’t even get equal compensation for the loan, much less interest on it.

            Now, when you say that I am defending “sinister lawbreakers and leeches on society,” please understand that the real leeches are those who use the law in order to plunder their fellow man. If the law’s purpose is to protect life, liberty, and property, with the law itself being the collective force of the community who prevents injustice through that force, then it must be agreed that taxing the rich to support foreign wars, government projects, unproductive labor, etc., is unlawful. Instead, we have a perversion of the law that makes it lawful to plunder the property and freedom of other citizens, while at the same time using it inherent force to punish those who would defend it.

            These people, in a word, are protecting their property, and the law is punishing them for protecting it, while being simultaneously used to legally plunder that property in order to give it to another without compensation.

            So I would have to disagree with you. If people would stop trying to fleece the rich in order that they might live without want at the expense of another, there wouldn’t be so much trouble brewing. Transparency of the “elites” has nothing to do with it.

            Just try getting a job from a poor man.

          • JeffH

            Alex Frazier, I thought your response to eddie was pretty accurate and well stated.

          • Alex Frazier

            Thanks Jeff. A little encouragement from time to time is definitely good for morale when it seems the nation is against what you consider common sense.

          • libertytrain

            Alex, I have to agree with Jeff. I enjoy your comments and this one in particular as well.

          • eddie47d

            Although my reply went over your head Alex your reply was well stated. Personally I wouldn’t trust any corporation that hid their money anywhere.If you are not up to something in life or business there would be no reason to hide anything. That’s where the transperancy comes in and before the other two jackals jump in I don’t want anybody elses money. Which is usually one of their comebacks they have on speed dial.

          • libertytrain

            eddie – you are far too enamored by yourself it seems. Over his head….really.

          • Alex Frazier

            Thanks for the kind words eddie. I know we disagree in fundaments if you are a liberal as others have said. But it doesn’t mean we can’t be civil, so I appreciate the courteous response.

            Your post didn’t go over my head. When you speak of cruel dictators stashing loot in Switzerland, it’s important that you take note of what it is you are saying relative to the issue. A criminal dictator guilty of war crimes stashing “loot” is trying to hide stolen or plundered goods.

            A corporation who has risked, invested, and profited through much effort and expense, is trying to protect their property from BEING stolen or plundered by a wicked incogneto dictatorship government; to wit, the United States of America, who has long since made the transition into a tyrannical socialist state, headed by a collective body of tyrants and civil thieves.

            The folks “occupying” Wall Street are looking for free legalized plunder, and it is to the advantage of the corporation to protect their earnings from the abuses of government.

            So I understood what you meant, but I was answering to the actual issue at hand, which is alleged tax cheats who hide their money offshore to evade taxes. In reality, they are protecting their property from the ruinous profligacy of a government run amuck at the behest of ignorant citizens who proclaim wisdom and intelligence when they’ve never cracked open a book on economics, history, social science, politics, philosophy, or anything else of useful merit.

          • Alex Frazier

            Thanks also libertytrain. I’m having to build a new reputation all over again. I had one going for a while, but it turned out that someone else was on these threads with the name “Alex,” so I had to add my last name to make the distinction.

            I’m afraid that he got the credit for a number of good posts. lol. They even sent one of my posts out in an email a month or two ago. It was very encouraging. Except that everyone thought I was someone else.

            There were a few who realized I couldn’t have been him, though, because I’m a libertarian with a republican/conservative base. He’s a liberal democrat. There’s really no mistaking the two.

          • libertytrain

            no, anyone here that’s been on for any length of time knows that the other Alex (and he’s been on a long time as well) is ridiculous. And while it may be confusing to some, I was never confused by that one. He can’t spell either and thinks his insults are clever. He’s an old fart but mentally has not left the 60s.

          • eddie47d

            Your passion is appreciated and I do get your jest.

          • JeffH

            Alex Frazier, you’ve just solved the “Alex” question that’s been asked on several occasions. Good to know!

          • DaveH

            Thanks for further qualifying your ID, Alex.

    • Richard

      Thanks JimMc. I was reading all the comments and was wondering where the Fair Tax people were. I have heard nothing but complaints about the tax code and the IRS for as long as I can remember. Yet everytime someone proposes a change, it seems the entire population runs against it (slight exageration here). It’s IS time to scrap the entire tax code and the IRS and implement a tax system that will work AND be fair. It’s time for the Fair Tax. Let the naysayers come up with a better, more well researched plan than this. Otherwise theyneed to get on board if they want real change in the tax code. In conjunction with the Fair Tax we also need to slash all this wasteful gov’t spending. Watch us climb out ofthis quagmireifthat happens. If not, we are going toslog through it for many years to come.

    • DaveH

      Okay, I’ll mention Fair Tax:
      http://mises.org/daily/1814

      • Richard

        DaveH. OK, I have read the article. It is a nice personal opinion piece from someone who apparently wants to abolish all taxes. Let’s get real here. Mr Vance was appalled at the Fair Tax code running to 59 pages. Whew! I’d much rather read the tens of thousands of pages in the current tax code. He also notes that Ron Paul is not a co-sponsor. Now there’s a reason to trash the bill (no offense to Mr. Paul – I like him as well). He laments that the legislation won’t repeal the 16th amendment. Of course no bill can repeal an amendment, but it is a step in the right direction. He bemoans the 23% rate. Well who doesn’t complain about how much they pay (except Buffet). And he belittles the bill because it will be easy for congress to increase the rate on a whim. Congress can increases all present taxes now if they wish and can agree to do it. What makes Mr. Vance such a prognosticator about Congressional increases to the Fair Tax?

        Finally, he doesn’t point to an alternative plan of his own choosing. I’m open to suggestions, but as I said above, if you are just going to sit there and complain about the current system and then complain about well thought out solutions that, in your personal opinion, won’t work, then you need to sit down and let the people who have a plan implement it and see where it takes us.

        In short, it really is only an opinion piece. Now I’ve read your article. Why don’t you read the Fair Tax book and form an opinion of your own. I’ve read a lot of what you have written today, but like the other naysayers, you don’t make a proposal to fix the problem. You just continue to complain like most others.

        • DaveH

          The author didn’t say he liked the Income Tax, Richard. In fact that was part of his argument — as soon as the so-called Fair Tax (not so fair to the businesses who have to act as Tax Collectors against their will) is enacted, what keeps our very Trustworthy (that’s a joke) Legislators from also keeping the Income Tax, or reinstating it later? Nothing.
          And then, thanks to the rebates, we will still have the situation where a large portion of people pay no income taxes, so there will still be a large portion of the population who pay NO Taxation for their Representation. They will, as they do now, still be able to vote for something they didn’t have to pay for.
          I see the so-called Fair Tax as smoke and mirrors.
          The Flat Rate Tax with no deductions would be much better.
          And even better than either of those would be a True Flat Tax (some call it a head tax), where each adult paid the same share for his Government (as it should be). That way every adult voter would have skin in the game instead of voting how to spend other peoples’ money. Government would be cut back dramatically almost immediately once people would then be voting on how to spend their own money. And that is of course why Politicians would never vote for such a thing. They are in the business of expanding Government, not shrinking it.

          But above all, the real problem isn’t the Form of Taxation. It’s the Spending.

          • Richard

            DaveH. Please correct me if I’m wrong but don’t businesses already act as tax collectors (I presume against their collective will) by collecting income taxes, payroll taxes, sales taxes, etc. and they spend billions to comply with the present tax code as your friend Mr Vance pointed out in your referenced article. Under the Fair Tax businesses would not pay any corporate tax at the Federal level, but would instead only have to calculate a percentage figure based on sales to determine how much tax to send in. The actual tax is paid by the end user of the product or service. This would reduce their compliance burden by the billions spoken of above.

            Regarding the legislators and their ability to keep the income tax along with the Fair Tax let me just ask you this: What is currently keeping the Legislators from enacting a sales tax on top of the income taxes etc. that we already pay? We are! They know they can get away with a lot, but they also know where to draw the line. It’s really an irrelevant point given that Congress can do, or not do, based on a consensus in that body.

            Yes, some people will end up paying no tax and there may be some who even collect a few dollars from the gov’t. if they can manage to watch their spending that closely. However, those people we speak of are at the poverty line. How many people do you know at the poverty line that don’t spend everything they make (and then some)? Granted, most probably won’t end up paying any tax because of the prebate, but ALL will get the prebate regardless of wealth or income. You will be getting the same thing FROM the gov’t that the poor get.

            Finally the flat tax. Nice idea. I like the concept of everyone having skin in the game, but as YOU say, the politicians would never vote for such a thing. And if I understand correctly, even Gov. Perry’s flat tax proposal would eliminate lower income earners. So how is that any different than the Fair Tax and it’s concession to the poor? Finally, the flat tax probably has less chance of passing than the Fair Tax which has dozens of co-sponsors in Congress ready to sign off on it.

            The Fair Tax IS an improvement over our current system. It IS a step in the right direction and, who knows, it might lead us to an even simpler flat tax over time.

            I am in wholehearted agreement with you last statement. Taxation isn’t the biggest issue, reckless spending is.

          • DaveH

            I’m going to let you have the last word, Richard, except that I would like to remind you that Europe has both. Watch out what you wish for, because it might come true.

          • independent thinker

            “And even better than either of those would be a True Flat Tax (some call it a head tax), where each adult paid the same share for his Government (as it should be).”

            Are you saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes?

          • DaveH

            Every adult. And yes, I am saying that.

          • DaveH

            Note, that is in relation to paying for our general Federal Government services that can’t easily be allocated to User Fees. I would prefer User Fees across the board, but in many cases (such as National Defense) that wouldn’t be practical.
            The reality of User Fees though would be that the User would seek cheaper, more effective services from the private sector for most things, thus diminishing the power of the Federal Government. So you can’t expect the Politicians to be willingly on board for such taxes.

          • independent thinker

            Then DaveH you are an idiot. The person working and just getting by on 25-30 thousand a year should NOT pay the same $ taxes as a person living comfortably on 250-300 thousand a year.

          • DaveH

            The problem is, Independant, that you are too ignorant to know that it is you who is the Idiot.
            If it were not for foolish sheeple like yourself, the economy would be robust, and you wouldn’t have any trouble at all getting along on 25-30 thousand a year. Every dollar that gets consumed by the Government is a dollar that could have been productively invested. But given the fact that you would call me an Idiot, because you aren’t sophisticated enough to understand, pretty much shows me where you’re coming from. Not much.

          • DaveH

            “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think” — Hitler.

          • DaveH

            For those who don’t understand the economic power of Capital Investment, read this very good article and learn something:
            http://mises.org/daily/5277

  • Patriot

    Income inequality is a sign of a banana republic. I know, I’ve lived in a few of them. The U.S. needs to fix this ASAP.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/numbers-income-top-o
    ne-percent-skyrocketed-over-last-153005722.html?source=patrick.net

  • Alexis

    Let’s all ask ourselves one simple question: What do we are citizens get in return for all these taxes paid?

    I never voted or agreed to “give” the federal government nearly half my income. I’ve never had a say in any of these things. With the exception of the FAA and a much, much smaller military force to actually defend the US, the feds are much more of a problem than a solution. They interfere unjustly in state’s rights, property rights, etc.

    Let me ask one more question… Say a person pays about half his income in taxes. He’s reasonably successful. Then, when he dies, the government demands nearly another half of what’s left. So his family ultimately receives 1 out of every 4 dollars the man worked and sacrificed to earn throughout his life.

    That seems like slavery to me. What about you?

    • DaveH

      It is slavery.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      “a much, much smaller military force to actually defend the US” Believe our military is doing a hell of a job defending the US.If the sorry as- politicians would stop getting the US involved in wars there was no reason to fight;Iraq being being one. The US would not need a large military Go to this link and see how are military pay’s for politicians misadventures
      http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7385288n&tag=contentMain;contentBody

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Sgt, it would be an unreal and a utopian world for the US to not need a large military. Our military does a great job and will always be needed as long as we are a country, and it will always be large as long as this Union survives, and rightfully so. Those who believe we have been “white and never right” throughout our great history do not know history. If you believe that if the US shrivels and lessens our military might and our poor enemies, who we have mistreated and manhandled throughout the world according to you, that are now proclaiming righteous Sharia Law will do the same thing, you are indeed naive and a joke. Remember, White is Right!

        • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

          And I would like to say the White is right is a joke. The old sarge and I have been down this path a time or two in the past, and it takes all kinds to make a world

  • Joe

    CP I stand by my claim of Buffett being a phony. He is the same guy who had some of his companies change their structure so that they would qualify as banks and get a Gov. bailout. The guy is out of his head and by the way I owned a Mutual fund that was one of the biggest holders of Berkshire stock and my money did not move up in over 5 years, and how about the stick up job he did on Bank of America take a deeper look at that.What a phony.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      “He is the same guy who had some of his companies change their structure so that they would qualify as banks and get a Gov. bailout”
      Can you name one
      Also
      “Berkshire Hathaway stock produced a total return of 76% from 2000–2010 versus a negative 11.3% return for the S&P 500″.

  • Sam I am

    If they want to tax us, oppress us, regulate us, suffocate us, and murder us (litterally with poison in the food and water), eventually, people will reach a point where they have nothing left to lose. Our choice may eventually become die quickly and take a chance or die slowly by starving in a camp, or on the streets, etc. Sounds like a no brainer to me. I am sure that every Jew that died in a gas chamber is thinking in Heaven “we should have fought back” At the very least we wouldn’t have had to suffer for months and months before dying anyway”

  • martin

    I am for a fair or flat tax. Last year my ex wife filed before I did she filed married but separate. Therefore since she had already filed I could not file a joint return. It cost me $4,000 more because I had to file married but separate. What a unfair system we have

  • Right Coast Mike

    Great column, Chip. Finally, someone explained how the multiple layers of taxation affects the stockholder’s earnings and total tax cost. But I doubt that Warren’s dad blamed the end of slavery for our nation’s financial ills (13th Amendment referenced in column). I’m sure (I hope) that was a “typo.” We all know it was the 16th Amendment that made slaves of us all.

    • JC

      yes it was…Abolish The Fed!

  • Alex Frazier

    There is no such thing as a fair tax. Taxes are theft. The government is taking the property of citizens to fund projects that don’t provide those citizens with compensation or remuneration.

    When one considers what money actual is, the picture is very clear. Money is a medium of exchange. It is often confused for wealth, but is merely a token of exchange for actual wealth, which is a product or service. Money represents a debt society owes to an individual who has provided a good or service to society without remuneration in terms of an equal good or service. By possession of that piece of money, you are entitled to select a good or service of your choice from society, equivalent to the value of goods or services your money represents.

    In short, wealth is goods and services you possess. Money is a method by which an exchange can be made of those goods and services without the transaction needing to be completed immediately. That money is an IOU from society, giving you the right to claim a good or service at a time of your choosing.

    When the government takes your right to goods and services that are represented in the token we call money, they are taking goods and services from you that you are rightfully entitled to from society. It’s nothing short of slavery, because when the government takes that right to goods and services away from you, you have essentially given your goods or services without compensation or remuneration.

    The only exceptions to this rule is when the tokens of your goods and services are taken to support the common defense and other projects that exist for the purpose of protecting life, liberty, and property.

    All other taxes are, by definition, legalized plunder. So there is no “fair” tax. They are all criminal if you are not receiving just compensation for their confiscation.

    • DaveH

      They could go to User Fees for most services they provide, but then most people would choose to go elsewhere for their services. Which is exactly why Government would never do such a thing Voluntarily. How could they stay so large in such a case?
      We need to shed the Force of Big Government for the Voluntarism of Free Markets.

      • Alex Frazier

        That would be a constitutional model at least. We pay a “user fee” as it is. It’s called sales tax. If it’s not too burdensome, it works.

        But you’re absolutely right. The real problem here isn’t a lack of tax revenue. It’s the expansion of government imposition. I read the coolest definition of “government” yesterday that I’ve ever seen.

        “Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.”

        Government, in its proper sphere, is the collective force of the people defined as law, and the law is meant to serve a singular purpose; to protect life, liberty, and property.

        And to know that this is the vision our founding fathers had for our nation, one need only look at the Declaration of Independence. We are endowed with our creator with certain unalienable rights, among these being life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (life, liberty, and property). And it is to secure these rights that governments are established among men (the collective force of the people, embodied in law, to protect life, liberty, and property), deriving their just powers by the consent of the governed (a power that is citizen derived).

  • Peter A. Sagi

    As per usual, there has been zero discussion on exactly WHAT is being taxed. So, once again, as I have done numerous times … I will bring the discussion back to fundamentals. According to the US Supreme Court in the earliest of decisions upholding the Constitutionality of the 16th ammendment and the income tax, the tax is an excise tax, i.e., a tax on privilege. It is only MEASURED by the income, or net profit, derived FROM the privilege. What privilege?

    There are several different taxes within Title 26 and more than one privilege is taxed, but, in essence, the tax is upon international transactions. For instance, non resident aliens of the US with US sourced income … taxable. US citizens residing abroad with foreign earned income … taxable. Work for the federal govt? Taxable. Work at an occupation of common right in any of the now 50 united States? Not the subject of the tax, EXCEPT you MAY elect to be treated as a federal employee for tax purposes BY PARTICIPATING IN SOCIAL SECURITY, which, according to the Social Security Administration, is 100% voluntary and NOT REQUIRED to live OR WORK in the US. Write them and ask, they will admit this IN WRITING. If you are being forced into Social Security, it is due to the hiring policies of your employer and NOT THE RESULT OF ANY LAW. Regarding bank accounts and brokerage accounts, insurance companies, etc … they are all in the habbit DUE TO THEIR POLICIES of asking for SSN’s, NOT DUE TO ANY LAW. USE AN SSN OR OTHER TAXPAYER ID WHERE NONE IS REQUIRED BY LAW AND YOU WILL BE TREATED AS IF YOU ARE A TAXPAYER. In otherwords, if there is no liability incurred for the tax, there is at least a damn fine presumption that you incurred said liability, otherwise, why did you use a taxpayer ID number???????????????????

    Bottom line … there are two versions of tax laws … “as written” and “everybody knows.” “Everybody knows” because nobody reads. The laws are written with very narrow application to pass muster with the Constitution, but are applied broadly because “everybody knows” that they owe, when they don’t. We have an extremely fair tax code as written but not as applied. The IRS, Treasury, and some other groups within govt. know exactly what the deal is and continue on with the deliberate mal application of the tax codes and do nothing to fix this fraud. What is needed is plain language full disclosure, not a new tax code.

    Pete

  • mark

    You are playing fast and loose with the truth also in this article Mr. Wood as the vast majority of U.S. corporations pay nowhere near a 35% tax on their profits as you well know. Thousands of U.S. corporations don’t pay a penny of tax due to loopholes and overseas scams that they paid Congressmen billions to put into the tax code. General Electric, a very wealthy corporation with a left-leaning leadership, doesn’t pay a penny in coroporte tax. Neither does NewsCorp, Rupert Murdoch’s giant conglomerate that owns FOX News. So let’s get real here and quit spreading more disinformation to manipulate the sheeple.

  • DaveH

    Nobody should kid themselves that taxing the rich only harms the rich. When the rich pay more taxes so the Politicians and Bureaucrats can live more handsomely, that money comes out of all of our hides. Every dollar the Government taxes and consumes would have been a dollar that a knowledgeable rich man could have invested in capital goods such as machine tools and factories that would produce more goods and services and jobs for all of us instead of simply being consumed. All of us, except those possibly who just refused to work, would benefit from the greatly increased productivity.
    That is the difference between poor countries and rich countries — captital investment. That’s why Big Government economies fare poorly and those with Small Government have robust economies:
    http://mises.org/daily/5277

    We need to elect one of only two current Republican candidates who understand those economics (Ron Paul, Gary Johnson) and put much of the Leviathan Government people out to pasture where they can no longer impede our Progress.
    RON PAUL 2012!

  • Jeffrey A. Williams

    Warren is one of the sharpest investment minds in our country today. I agree with his opinion that the rich don’t pay their fair share and that the middle income Americans pay the lions share of the taxes in this country as should be the case as long as the middle class remains strong. But the middle class is no longer as strong as it once was or should be for a number of reasons. Indeed the rich, especially wealthy corporations are in many cases not paying any taxes at all due to tax loop holes and haven’t been for more than 2 decades now. Wealthy individuals also are able to better take advantage of tax loopholes to lower their legally reportable gross income and thereby lower if not nearly eliminate their taxes due/payable. This also disadvantages our nations revenue collection accordingly. For these and other reasons, I have for years now supported a simple “Flat Tax” method in which all Americans and American based corporations and/or those corporations operating in the US in any capacity pay a flat percentage of gross income/revenue regardless of business expenses. I prefer to call this a “Fair Tax” system much like what this country had when it was first founded.

  • Bandit

    Not only r they Stealing $ from those of us who move the economy, purchase goods and hire employees they r Giving it out to those who put the biggest strain on the economic system. The only fair tax is a consumption tax. We need a Ron Paul in a position of power to eliminate all of the Giant problem departments costing us our lives(dept of energy, public edu, the fed,etc) Not to mention sticking our noses, militarily, in the worlds business when we cant even control our own borders. This occupy thing is just feel sorry for me BS! Im useless unskilled and will never amount to anything so u need to give me what have . LOOOOSERS!!! OOps, certain ive exceeded my noun, verb or contraction limit. Now ther’ll b an investigation so get ready to cough up a bit more $. Free speech and the ability to protest r GREAT things but lets have a goal. What it is these idiots intend to accomplish remains very unclear. Do they expect to ea receive a check and a pat on the back or WHAT??? Hope their houses r being taken back along w their cars they r unable to pay for while they litter our parks and streets. Do they believe it will look good on a resume to say i lost all my belongings because i was part of this thing to bilk $ from those who have more than me? Oh yeah! Your hired,LOL, morons! gotta go investigators at the door. C YA!

  • northbrook

    I could not agree more – Buffet should shutup. If he wishes to contribute to pay more tax, he is free to do this. We must all pay taxes but only those who wish to pay more should do so on a voluntary basis.
    I am tired of hearing about this. So Mr Buffet keep your opinion to yourself.

  • Capitalist at Birth

    Chip, Although I agree with most of your article. I must take exception to your example of the 999 plan, which is a regressive tax plan that will further erode the purchasing poser of the lower and middle class. I am in favor of a flat tax with and exemption of the first $ 25,000 of income for EVERYONE. With itemized deductions for ALL medical expenses, state and local income and property taxes, mortgage interest for primary residences, charitable contributions, and non reimbursed business expenses. It would eliminate the need for the IRS and Tax Accountants/Attorneys.

    • ChristyK

      If you allow a few deductions it will quickly skyrockket into the same mess we have now. No deductions other than possibly per family member. Don’t allow the government to say to you which expenses are important (tax deductible) and which are not.

      • DaveH

        It has always struck me as odd that Children would be deductible. Since children, in large part, suck more Government resources, one would think that the families would be lucky they aren’t taxed more for their children.

  • Bandit

    As for Buffet, who doesnt get it. The guy is a shrewd bzns man! All HE own , wants or needs personally is paid for. He pays himself a min. salary annually on which he pays income tax. His companies make the $. He moves and controls it but it never hits his pockets. Cars, mansions, planes, etc. all owned by the largest investment co on the planet r at his becking call. Most of his competition does not have quit the same set up or the ability to do so in as grand a fashion. By condoning the higher taxes on the upper 4% he is limiting his competitions ability to do bzns leaving him w more access to and lower costs on the deals hes working.

  • Rog1

    i wonder if all the mobile home people would not use mr. buffets mortage co. (vanderbuilt mortage co ) how far would he be Ill bet hed make a lot lees noise

  • HarryButtle

    Stop it. Just stop it. There is no basis for what you say and you know it.

    The Congressional Budget Office estimated that federal taxes would consume just 14.8 percent of G.D.P. this year. The last year in which revenues were lower was 1950, according to the Office of Management and Budget.

    The postwar annual average is about 18.5 percent of G.D.P. Revenues averaged 18.2 percent of G.D.P. during Ronald Reagan’s administration; the lowest percentage during that administration was 17.3 percent of G.D.P. in 1984.

    In short, by the broadest measure of the tax rate, the current level is unusually low and has been for some time. Revenues were 14.9 percent of G.D.P. in both 2009 and 2010.

    Just last week, House Republicans released a new plan to reduce unemployment. Its principal provision would reduce the top statutory income tax rate on businesses and individuals to 25 percent from 35 percent. No evidence was offered for the Republican argument that cutting taxes for the well-to-do and big corporations would reduce unemployment; it was simply asserted as self-evident.

    One would not know from the Republican document that corporate taxes are expected to raise just 1.3 percent of G.D.P. in revenue this year, about a third of what it was in the 1950s.

    The G.O.P. says global competitiveness requires the United States to reduce its corporate tax rate. But the United States actually has the lowest corporate tax burden of any of the member nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/are-taxes-in-the-u-s-high-or-low/

  • Patriot

    Can anyone show me or point to the law that requires anyone to pay a Federal income tax?

    • Sam I am

      Not sure about the law, but SWAT teams with M16s will serve pretty well, don’t you think? If you desire a Waco 2 or Ruby Ridge 2 targeting your property, then refuse to pay taxes and stop answering the mail. Now if many of us did this…. The government doesn’t have the resources to force us all to pay up.

      • DaveH

        They don’t need to, Sam, they’ll just borrow from the Federal Reserve while they pick us off one at a time.

  • Jim

    Again, this all comes back to what kind of country and system do you want to live under. Where is it written (other than in the Communist Manifesto) that the government has the right to decide how income and wealth should be distributed? Where is it written that the majority have a responsibility to take care of those who cannot, or will not take care of themselves…and force us to do so at the point of a gun (think IRS)?

    Our tax system was and is designed for one thing – social engineering and maximizing the power of government. The only way to get back to anything resembling “fair” is to abolish the IRS and IRC and start over again, this time with a dramatically reduced federal government that is sized according to what’s actually authorized in the Constitution. That would result is the need for far less tax revenue and the opportunity to fun government with a flat, or “fair tax” and do away with this arbitrary redistribution of income that we have now.

    But here’s the rub: those in power will never willingly give up the power to tax and engineer society according to their own vision. That means the only way the current tax system will change is thorough revolution…hopefully a peaceful one.

    • Sam I am

      The system we will live under has nothing to do with our utopian “pie in the sky” dreams. Quite simply, the system we will eventually live under is that absolute worst system we are willing to put up with. Plain and simple.

      Every one has their line in the sand. Think about this, for decades, people didn’t give a crap. We didn’t give a crap when government raised taxes every year. We didn’t give a crap when government went through the Iran-Contra scandal. We didn’t give a crap when government conducted Waco and Ruby Ridge. etc., etc., etc. Oh sure, there might have been some hootin’ and hollerin’ from a few well informed folks, but most did not organize into tea parties and occupy wall street protests. Only now, with things just in an absolute mess after the financial mess known as 2008, have we all finally gotten off of our rears, turned off the porn and crappy TV, and have decided to protest.

  • CarlK

    Talking about state related taxes including sales tax in this article is a red herring. You must talk apples for apples regarding Federal Income Tax along with the corresponding “effective tax rates” that show up at the “end” of all inputs.

    Warren Buffett is a financial gamer, a master of the trade. That should surprise nobody in understanding how and why he is one of the publicized, richest US men excluding family banking dynasties that are somehow “excluded” from the list.

    How do you think him having utilized a reasonable, by today’s standards, relatively modest income of 100K has played into the “social security” system, something he will not be taking from unless he decides to “retire,” of course? tia

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    I’ve heard that Rick Perry is also contemplating a flat tax similar to that of Herman Cain, with a modification – you can keep your current tax filing if you wish. While we may not totally agree with Perry, this sounds good to me. I really trust that Perry is honestly saying “you can keep …..”, unlike BHO saying “You can keep your current health plan ….” Under Obamacare. I’m sure BHO must’ve read that off of a teleprompter; without which he would’ve been hesitating and stuttering. Unlike Perry, we know BHO is a liar.

    • DaveH

      I sure wouldn’t attribute the quality of honesty to Rick Perry.
      Disregarding that, the whole idea of a Flat Tax (really a Flat Rate Tax) is to level the playing field. Allowing people to keep the old system would defeat that.
      Another thing the Flat Rate Tax was touted for was the great reduction in complexity and the size of the IRS. But Perry’s proposal would enable the IRS to remain relatively large.

  • Monte

    I have an idea. And it’s not a new one. Let’s hold the Federal Government to only what powers are enumberated within the Constitution and pass admendments to close up the commerce and welfare clauses. Let everthing else be the responsibility of the states. Instead of crying and whining to the central state for blanket reforms, the whiners and criers can appeal to their states, as was intended. Then when the leftists have bankrupted and destroyed their own states, we can invite them to lecture in our well managed state about how backward and ignorant we are, quite unlike the progressives in the smart states, with the population living in cardboard boxes.

    • Richard

      Now there’s a novel idea! Let’s actually live by the words in the founding documents. Nicely put Monte.

    • DaveH

      Ron Paul/Monte 2012!

  • Mirage

    Approximately 60% of Americans feel the super wealthy-top 1% should be paying more in taxes.
    The top 1% of Americans control about 80% of all America’s wealth.
    Since the Reagan administration, through Bush1, Clinton, Bush2, Obama; a 30+ year span, the wealthy have seen their incomes increase by approximately 300%!
    Main Street by comparision, has seen it’s income increase by approximately 20%! It is easy to understand “Occupy Wall Street” when one considers the huge imbalance and the rapid shrinking of the middle class.
    If the Super Wealthy 1% are prospering upwards at a rate not seen since the days before the Great Depression, while the rest of us are dying, there must be multiple reasons for the imbalance, prominent of which, are political policies implemented BY ALL 3 PARTIES.
    Lastly, an example of the Super Wealthy who also happen to be Libertarians, would be the Koch Brothers … they sure do donate a lot of money to move their agenda. Food for thought?
    Good Day.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      You attacked the Koch brothers and libertarians,along with saying something positive about Occupy Wall Street; boy are you going to be attacked.

      • Alex Frazier

        lol

        I’m in process of taking on that pile of horse poopie. Standby.

      • eddie47d

        Do you mean America’s biggest polluters SGT? aka Koch

        • DaveH

          Another Fabricated Fact from the useless Union Guy.

          • eddie47d

            Even PLD mentioned that last week and yes you were here. Stop playing stupid Dave just to score points. Your losing your integrity and fast.

          • DaveH

            Is that what you call a rebuttal, Eddie?
            You said “Do you mean America’s biggest polluters SGT? aka Koch”.
            I’m saying “Prove it, Troll”.
            You never do supply proof do you? Just Trollish Lip Service.

          • eddie47d

            PLD should be proof enough for you tonight. I have also brought it up on other ocassions. Sleep tight!

          • JC

            Exactly “how” did PLD make that reference eddie? As far as I’m concerned you’re making up every word of it. As usual.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Ar you not ever going to get over Koch? Were you bent over and reamed?

    • Sam I am

      Rofl, lmfao, and LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ON WHAT PLANET WERE YOU BORN ON WHERE THE KOCH BROTHERS ARE LIBERTARIAN????? If they were libertairan they wouldn’t lobby for corporate exemptions that crush mom and pop businesses!!!!

      The Koch brothers can go straight to hell and burn in their money.

    • Alex Frazier

      Mirage, all that stuff you mentioned is after your name sake. It’s a mirage.

      One thing that most are not considering is that the wealthy didn’t start wealthy. Someone, whether they themselves or their family before them, started poor. Everyone’s patrimony began in poverty. Money didn’t fall out of the sky. People didn’t stumble upon fields of tilled, planted, and tended wheat. Someone started from nothing and ended with something through labor or intelligence or both.

      Now, if you, today, have nothing, and over the course of the next ten years you manage to save some capital to start a small business, you would consider it earned, and the toil of your own labor. If you worked that business fourteen hours a day to see to it that it was successful, you, again, would consider it earned, and the toil of your own labor. When it finally became successful, you would consider it a just reward for the time, energy, labor, savings, and risk you put into the venture.

      When the time came that the business grew to a healthy patronage, you would hire labor to work the shifts and manage the necessary duties. As the patronage grew yet more, perhaps you would hire yet more labor to fulfill the needful tasks that become neglected due to heavier traffic. When it grew yet greater, you would begin to save your net profits when additional labor is no longer needed above what you have already. With that saved profit, you might choose to invest in the business ventures of others, or you may choose to purchase stock or other investments, in order to increase your own personal worth and capital.

      When you have grown to a certain level of available capital, you finally decide that it’s time to open an additional store at another location. You do so, and employ still more individuals. As time goes by, and as the patronage of this second location becomes as healthy as the first location, your profits double, or perhaps do more than double if your choice in the second location was better than the first.

      With an increased flow of net revenue, additional locations come quicker. More people are hired. And as a result, more locations still are added. Before you know it, you find yourself opening locations in other cities, or in other states. The profits continue to multiply, and the number of locations continue to do the same.

      Forty years has gone by. You’ve built an empire. It all started with a few years of careful saving, a tremendous risk of capital, some hard work and long hours on your part, and some wise investments. You’re now a multi-millionaire. You earned every dollar by the toil of your own labor, and your great success is a just reward for the time, energy, labor, savings, and risk you put into the venture.

      And then some jack-off comes and sits on your front step with a sign saying that you should be taxed even more than the 34% corporate tax, 20-40% income tax, 15% capital gains tax, plus your share of all the surtaxes included in your greater contribution to the electric company, your business cell phone plans, etc., because they need relief from the student loans they took on voluntarily and expect someone else to pay.

      To add insult to injury, when you die, 40% of what you built is confiscated by the government to fund the indolent. What remains gets passed on to your heir, who is then harangued by the masses who have been taught to believe that you and posterity somehow owe them a living, while they spend their money in college to study philosophy instead of something useful, or spend their time sitting on the couch studying nothing at all.

      The bottom line is this: All capital is earned. It doesn’t fall out of the sky. What each man does with the capital he has amassed is up to him, and his success or failure is his own responsibility. No one owes anyone the fruit of their labor. And the capital invested wisely is what provides jobs for those who use their capital unwisely.

      People need to just stop complaining. When I was 18 I slept on a park bench on Christmas Eve, homeless. Success is up to each individual. No one owed me a living. I made one for myself, with hard work, wise decisions, and faith in God.

    • DaveH

      That’s odd, Mirage. According to this article the top 1% control 42% of the wealth:
      http://www.mybudget360.com/wealth-in-america-corporations-control-grow-income-inequality-top-25-percent-control-87-percent-finanical-wealth/

      Who do we believe?

      But the real question isn’t who controls the wealth, but what kind of political conditions allow people to grow their wealth? Would they be Capitalistic Conditions or Socialistic Conditions? We can tear down the wealthy and live like Cubans. Who would want that? Not me. Or we can wake up and face the reality that the Bigger Government gets, the worse an economy gets. Why are the Liberals not jealous of the Political Power and Perks that the Politicians and their Bureaucrats wield? Could it be because the Propagandists serve the Government?
      Some Big Businesses are feeding at the trough, supporting the reelection of their favorite Politician benefactors, and writing their own regulations, which indeed is a Problem. But I rarely see Liberals point that out.
      As Government Grows, Corruption Flows.

      • Mirage

        You’ll notice I used the word “approximately” when my citing figures. Depending on one’s source, you’ll see middle class income increase estimates(1980-2011) typically listed between 18% – 68% increase(s). So, I try to remember to write “approximately” to compensate for what another might find as a reference: there will be discrepancies, sometime large ones.
        The main point I was trying to impart is, regardless of who the controlling political party have been during the last 30 years, Middle Class/wealth has been steadily declining, while the top 1%, have been growing their wealth at much higher rates.
        It is time for huge political changes perhaps … the kind that involve more than the current political system allows for. One guy like Paul, can’t get it done.
        Nuff said.

        • DaveH

          From 42% to 80% is “approximate”? In my book, that’s a falsehood. But then, you are a Liberal, so what else can we expect?
          You’re a crack-up, Mirage. That’s approximate for a laugh-riot.

  • 4-just_us

    Just a thought! How would it be if only the people who makes over
    100,000$ a year pay taxes.

    • Sam I am

      Everyone would make $99,999.99 a year and you would stop getting your welfare.

      • DaveH

        Lol. That was good, Sam.

      • JC

        Perfect! LOL

    • Alex Frazier

      How about we start taxing the welfare checks. I think 99% ought to be about right. And maybe a 99% tax on unemployment benefits. While we’re at it, maybe a 99% sales tax on food stamp goods would be good.

      In fact, that’s such a fantastic plan, I do declare that it would recover nearly 40% of the federal budget through these three measures alone!

      Get a grip. The rich aren’t the problem. The lazy are.

      • JC

        Agreed

  • CarlK

    Yes, we are a REPUBLIC at origin, aren’t we? It is better for a few smart fellows to guard their state flocks including choosing their own representatives to send to Washington, because they are supposed to be intimately aware of the important issues which will position their state’s citizens’ welfare best, versus what this democratic quagmire has evolved into.

    How many Americans in today’s growing population above 300MM capita, understand that they are a REPUBLIC and not a DEMOCRACY? It takes “A Few Good Men” along with some women in the mix, to prevent the masses from placing a gun to their heads.

    Warren Buffett might make a great U.S. Treasury Secretary, by example.

    You can see how internationally related “central banking systems” tied together internally, have benefited from this CF, during the past 100 years at least, can’t you? When will OWS, or another movement like it, strike at the head of the serpent at the PINNACLE of the PYRAMID, this inner eye that rules with impunity?

    They should be calling certain Rockefellers out to the street!

    Where is this President who will “kill the bank” next, and find control over the Peoples money supply so they may possible mess things up on their own? Is that Caines, or somebody else being ignored?

    • Sam I am

      Last time I checked, we are a facist dictatorship with a faux democractic / republic overlay to fool people into thinking we still have a constitution. Obama does whatever he wants with or without congress and no one stops him.

  • Buck

    There is no honor or integrity in the character makeup of a democrat , So quit expecting to find it .

    • mito

      But if you have dinner with a Republican you will ALWAYS be stuck with the tab.

    • eddie47d

      I’ll have to Buck you on that! You mean to tell me Democrats aren’t kind ,compassionate,respectful of the environment,believers of true equality and a fair wage.You must have been in a hurry and overlooked that. Ronald Reagan once said “a rising tide lifts all boats” Now that sounds delicious but was slow in coming and for some it never happened.Now the upper crust skims the cream off of the top and leaves the “lower crust” (that’s us) with the curds.

      • DaveH

        Democrats (and most Republicans) are “kind ,compassionate,respectful of the environment,believers of true equality and a fair wage” as long as it’s somebody else’s money used to provide those things.

      • DaveH

        Here is an example of the “respectful of the environment” Greens in action:
        http://community.gorge.net/wsalmoncl/History/history.html

        • DaveH

          Northwestern Lake after dam is blown:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jqBLPQ7zaY

          It’s all about Power, folks. The Environmentalists don’t care about the fish. They don’t care about the environment. They just care about what THEY want. And they won’t hesitate to shove their choices down the rest of our collective Throats.

  • CarlK

    Possibly mess things up on their own? Do you mean people are fallible and make financial mistakes, regardless of their wealth, power, position or privilege in a “free market system” called “capitalism”?

    Sure, many do. But in the case of The Peoples currency, why pay third party middlemen NO RISK fees for PRINTING such messes overtime while diluting the Peoples hard work for toiling in labor, and then tap on INTEREST for creating from nothing what was to benefit them if they were allocating their money supply intelligently to begin with?

    This system is a CF, and needs to be dismantled. Call Ron Paul, and stop kidding yourselves unless FAILURE is the only OPTION by DESIGN for some other long term purpose being incorporated by those who truly maintain power, influence and control of your currency. imo

  • http://none dave bulkoski

    Chip,

    you are absolutely right. the elite and powerful always twist the truth to steal more money from us. well, the time is coming soon that millions of us “goons” are going to take over the capitol, and burn it down, just like it burned in the 1800′s because the government looted its own people. yeah homie, we can play dat.

    • Elite Reply

      You guys can start any day now, as we have only been economically raping you for decades now. But first, you have to turn off the porn, video games, and American Idol.

  • http://none dave bulkoski

    Dear Elite and powerful:

    we outnumber you a thousand to one. We are coming for you. Bank on it. stop pissing off the rabid dog, or he will bite you.

    • Elite Reply

      Hello, the police and the military will do our bidding (the few that don’t we will be crushed by those that do our bidding), and we have quite a few radical technologies that even the odds. We control the media, governments, weapon systems, money supply, etc, etc. If you sheeple should ever truly wake up and revolt, we will just virus bomb or nuke the planet and retreat to our underground bunkers located under our tropical island paradise resorts and emergec unscathed.

      Have a nice day, and remember to take oyur microchip or be exterminated.

      Toodles!!! Until next time.

      • JC

        You’re “dreaming”. The military will do your bidding? Against 100 million “armed” friends and neighbors? Yeah…sure! :)

  • eddie47d

    Generally this author has good column’s and today’s wasn’t bad. Yet he overstated his attack against Buffet so what is he protecting? Something is broken in our economy and he spends time going after someone who exposes the discrepancies in that system. One issue the author played lose with and may be wrong on is the Coca Cola and McDonald’s comment. The USA has hundreds of fast food restaurants and Coke plants so naturally they would be expanding to other places in the world. If they are building in Europe or even China then the majority of profits would stay in those countries.They would also keep additional profits in those countries to build more companies or restaurants. That is why those profits are “offshore” as opposed to the profits made in the USA. So he was rather sneaky about that. There is a big difference between what they are doing and an American company who is hiding their money in the Cayman Islands without having an actual operation there. That is called hiding their assets to avoid paying what is owed in this country. Which is a truer meaning of off shoring.

  • Erich

    In 2011 the effective corporate tax rate, including trade tax and solidarity tax is about 30%-33%.

    Germany individual income tax rates,2011 Tax % Tax Base (EUR)
    0 Up to 8,004 (11,335.58 USD)
    14% 8,005-52,881 (11,335.89-74,877.74 USD)
    42% 52,882-250,730 (74,874.71-355,049.41 USD)
    45% 250,731 and over (355,050.59 USD)

    Note: The rates are before solidarity tax,all individuals,and business tax-for business income.
    Members of the church pay 8%-9% church tax.

    http://www.worldwide-tax.com/germany/germany_tax.asp

  • CarlK

    To gain back control of your country, will require the full backing of your military complex, for these ELITE who rule your nation with impunity while acting without transparency according to their opaque worlds and customs, will not stand down until they are forced out of their positions.

    It’s perfectly constitutional for the military to remove men acting against the best interest of their citizen base including treason, but do we have leaders in the military complex with sufficient ethical conviction to do the right thing? Otherwise, The People will be trampled upon.

    Rick Perry said, The Federal Reserve has performed treason, and it was a great “sound bite” for his political aspirations, I am sure. WTH is he really willing to do about it, at the same time “defining” it and pointing his WRATH directly at the “names of the men” who have committed such actions against this nation?

    Bring it on, because America needs a good cleansing to remove these Den of Vipers from their nests! imo

    • Elite Reply

      Time and time again, the military has proven it will just follow orders without question. They will help round you up into concentration camps. Thats the thanks you will get for all of our stupid and silly flag waving support the troop orgies we have been on.

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68
    • CarlK

      That’s interesting how a state’s representatives might not serve the best interests of their citizen base including powerful wielding Senators with the name Rockefeller on them. Thanks, Sgt. Z!

      http://sunlightfoundation.com/blog/2010/04/13/more-on-mining-investigation-transparency/

      Ken Ward, Jr. points to a statement by Sen. Jay Rockefeller calling for Senate hearings on the Upper Big Branch Mine disaster and asks if Rockefeller or other West Virginia lawmakers will call for an open Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) investigation:

      Will members of West Virginia’s congressional delegation take the important step of demanding that MSHA and the state hold this investigation out in the open, so everyone can see what is said, what questions were asked, and why 29 men had to die?
      And if they do and MSHA refuses, will the delegation force Congress to convene field hearings that will serve that same purpose?

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        Believe MSHA is doing there job

        Administration (MSHA) preliminary report contains volumes of documents showing micro-management of the mine by Blankenship and a practice of keeping two sets of books. One detailed safety issues for mine managers. The other hid those issues from MSHA inspectors.

  • FreedomFighter

    …”Masters of Tyranny themselves. The warning in short is this: If you, the globalist enemies of humanity, try to pull the world into yet another great war, the ending will not be what you imagine it to be, one with you sitting on piles of human skull counting your ill-gotten gains and licking the blood off your chops, but one which will have you hiding in any hole you can find, looking for a Crassus to take your fortune but save your hide. Yes, your kingdom for a horse indeed! But when that time comes the likes of Crassus will be hiding in holes themselves for we will hunt every one of your kind down for the dogs that you are, bring you to justice, strip you of your ill-gotten gains and send you to the depths of Hades which you have chosen to serve of your own free will, a free will which you want to deny to all others. This you cannot control and this you cannot change no matter how many of us you kill.+

    http://dont-tread-on.me/war-with-iran-a-warning-to-patriots-and-globalists/

    Buffy is a distraction from whats comming.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • jopa

    Jeffh; In your post above you stated “They didn’t become successful by being stupid”.However you went bankrupt lost everything and now you think we should take your advice.This country has been trying the Bush tax plan and trickle down economics for no less than 11 years and it doesn’t seem to be too effective.Back to the drawing board!!

    • JeffH

      jopa…speaking of stupid…bankrupt? I’d sure like to know how you come up with this stuff? No, actually I have a pretty good idea…a wild imagination and a lot of fabrication.

      FYI, what was flawed in what I said?

      • DaveH

        At least we don’t have to listen to Jopa’s inane remarks often. Do you suppose we could train Eddie to be as scarce?

        • eddie47d

          No Dave I’m here to expose you and Jeff’s daily insanities. You know the ones you hide within the “facts’. So you can wish and hope all you want.

          • DaveH

            For the folks that don’t know better, Eddie is the representative board Liberal, making the rest of the Liberals look bad.
            Keep on keeping on, Eddie.

          • eddie47d

            Golly Dave you say that about all the Liberals LOL

          • vicki

            Eddie47d writes:
            “No Dave I’m here to expose you and Jeff’s daily insanities.”

            If I were your boss I would fire you for poor performance.

            Eddie47d: “You know the ones you hide within the “facts’. So you can wish and hope all you want.”

            Projecting again Eddie?

            At least Dave and Jeff bother to obtain and share facts (with cites). Maybe if you learned to do that and your “facts” matched the cites you (currently don’t) provide, your credibility would be higher.

        • JeffH

          There’s you answer DaveH…eddie’s here to expose us?…excuse me while I LMAO!

          With each word eddie prints it’s pretty obvious that “exposing” us may be the wrong idea here. I think it’s more about “exposing and confirming” himself for what he is.

          • eddie47d

            I’m glad we all had a good laugh tonight.See you Monday.

  • HarryButtle

    The article is so egregiously wrong you should apologize for it.

    The Congressional Research Service looked at a repatriation holiday approved by Congress in 2004 and found “little evidence exists that new investment was spurred.” In fact, many of the largest companies that took advantage of that holiday wound up cutting tens of thousands of jobs over the subsequent two years, as this table shows:

    Corporation Amount Repatriated Layoffs In 2005-2006
    Pfizer $37 billion 10,000
    Merck $15.9 billion 7,000
    Hewlett-Packard $14.5 billion 14,500
    Honeywell $2.7 billion 2,000
    Ford $900 million 30,000
    Colgate-Palmolive $800 million 4,000

    In fact, there is no evidence that reducing taxes creates jobs. No Corporation pays 35% and some have a negative income tax. Some of those that have a negative income tax have moved outside the US to avoid taxes and still demand to receive cash back from subsidies. Then there are hedge fund managers like John Paulson who made $2 billion dollars over two years and paid no income tax at all.

    • DaveH

      Here’s the evidence:
      http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

      Why do these Liberals assume the strange IDs?

    • eddie47d

      Don’t give Dave the facts Harry for he has his own manufactured facts in his Rolodex. Atta boy Dave!

      • JC

        Gamesaying Parrot.

      • vicki

        I do notice that Harry offers no evidence of his claims while DaveH offers rather convincing evidence.

        To help illustrate the difference between proof by bald assertion (harry) and Proof by providing evidence (dave) I shall make a bald assertion

        The sky is green.

        If I were Harry I would expect you to believe it just cause I say so.
        If I were DaveH I would provide some evidence.

        So for those of you who might actually be curious the answer is JD
        I.E. Just depends. http://www.king5.com/news/environment/Why-isnt-the-sky-ever-green-128106793.html

        And there is that cite to provide evidence to support my assertion (claim) though you see the assertion is poorly stated as the sky is blue most of the time. (See the cite above for details)

  • H. Teuber

    Chip Wood misleads! If someone lives off from the payout of the wealth, it is in income, no matter what! So Warren Buffett is receiving income for his work as a “chief administrator” of the wealth he owns. It is his salary, wages, tips, earnings, bonus, dividends, capital gains or what other name you may think of to justify an unfair tax policy. Even the ordinary income that businesses pay is “doubly taxed”. It is the same money that comes from doing business that flows to employees in form of salaries or wages and to stockholders in form of dividends. So why make a difference between employees’ earnings and stockholders’ earnings?
    Warren is honest. You, Chip Wood, just stop dumbfinding us with the cheap argument of “double taxation”. When all incomes are declared equal before law and only gifts remain taxfree, the next you may think up is double talking by declaring dividends as gifts to reciprocate for the “donations”, people gave to start and expand their favorite businesses.

    So income is income is income. Only gifts and game winnings are not income. Income must be taxed progressively according to its size to maintain social justice and promote genuine humanity in the society.

    For a Fair and Humane Society!

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Fair and Humane Society boy that’s going to piss off a whole bunch of the wing nuts that visit this site as for me it works

      • DaveH

        Sgt,
        We could settle all this angst easily and fairly by having each adult pay exactly the same amount for his Government. Then there would be no controversy about who has or hasn’t paid his/her fair share.
        After all, you don’t have to provide an income statement before your druggist decides what you will pay for your Haldol, do you? Why should some people have to pay more for their Government just because they’ve worked harder, sacrificed more, and took bigger personal and financial risks than others?
        If we were decent human beings, we would thank those whose sacrifices have provided jobs for those of us who don’t want to make such big efforts. Instead a very large portion of our population wants to punish them. Unbelievable.
        We may be “wing nuts”, sgt, but you and your kind are Morally Reprehensible.

    • FreedomFighter

      What country do you live in? Certainly not America, my wage is based on time, effort for agreed monies, dividends are not, they are investments.

      Take your meds, goto bed, sleep it off or whatever.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • CarlK

        Is not what Mr. Buffett is attempting to illustrate while knowing “percentage rules” and examining the “effective tax rates” of the higher income earners in our society compared to the hard working citizens who are performing much of the necessary labor, that the hard working citizens on a “percentage basis” of their “incomes” are ending up paying a far greater portion towards “taxes” vs. the rich?

        If I make 100K per year and pay ten percent in taxes equating to 10K, and Mr. Buffett makes ten million per year and pays 1 million in taxes, is that not fair?

        • DaveH

          No, it’s not fair. I’m surprised you would ask such a question. See my comment to sgt.

          • CarlK

            Hmm, you must also not believe in Buffett “birthing lotto tickets.” For some reason, I can’t get out of my head as I always have since early youth, how is that the “bum” on the street is not me, or why is that I was not born in a mud hut somewhere in Africa?

            It probably won’t matter to you, because I have seen your type in life’s jungle all the way throughout my journey, and although I have always embraced and respected the work ethic for greater gain myself, I never felt I was better than those others because they couldn’t-for whatever reasons–and I could. On the contrary, outward concern for the welfare of others remains a constant theme in my life, regardless of the rich and haughty who believe that by some “divine right” along with “wealth transfers,” to offspring in subsequent generations, somehow makes them smarter, stronger, or better.

            He who has been graced with great privilege in this life, must be willing to sacrifice in return for even greater good to prevail across the universe.

            No man is an island, of that I can assure you.

            I am digressing, somewhat, because this is not the issue of this thread. The issue is how does a fair tax system evolve for the hard working People of America who toil in their work lives daily in order to advance The Capitalist, or leaders who are The Hunters in their society in pursuit of better lives?

            If The Hunters leave for dead all of their prey, it is a certainty that The Hunters will starve one day too.

            From a tax stand point, “same percentage” rules may give the prey some more breathing room in order that Hunters continue evolving for the benefit of the whole, and qualities of lives in the Savannah are enhanced with some semblance of mutual respect being established.

            It’s a simple “balancing” act at the core of my thinking.

            Warren gets it, and applies the principal universally–Gates allocating his capital to the globe–while I am more selfish when thinking about the USA, and the People inside of it who have been getting sheared for a very long time now.

    • DaveH

      You’re right, Teuber. We need to set up a Fair tax system where everybody pays the same — a True Flat Tax. It’s not right that some people get the benefits of Government, but don’t have to pay anything.
      Then instead of Government wasting our resources with wealth distribution they could get back to a Constitutional Government which exists only to protect us from the Force and Fraud of others.
      For Free Markets, Individual Liberty, Limited Government, Personal Responsibility, and above all PEACE, vote Libertarian!
      http://libertarianparty.org/issues

      • eddie47d

        Sadly Dave seldom if ever challenges the authors on this site even when they are wrong. Dave is so busy defending his personal propaganda and links he can’t see the misinformation.

        • DaveH

          I’m sure glad you post here, Eddie. There are so many people who have bought into the myth that Liberals are intelligent. You are our poster boy to bust that myth.

          • eddie47d

            I’m not going to lose any sleep over that response. Nighty nite.

          • DaveH

            You already said “see you Monday”. And here you are again. Are you honest about anything, Eddie?

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68
  • Morpheus

    If we want a better future, we better get our heads out of our behinds!

    Don’t be Afraid!

    The Revolution has started -
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

    FIGHT THE CAUSE – NOT THE SYMPTOM

  • Alex

    Before you write about what Mr Buffett’s (or any others’) businesses pay, or should pay, in taxes, you should really watch once or thrice more Elizabeth Warren’s most awesome and impassioned reminder of our duties under the Social Contract. It is easy to find on Youtube.

    Capitalism, and its virulent American form in particular, pays scant attention to the Social Contract —!!EXCEPT WHEN IT NEEDS OUR CHILDREN TO GO TO WAR!!— profit is the only motivation for anything. Sure, they speak of ‘patriotism’—all the flippin’ time—but that concept, that virus, really, is only used to work you simple sheeple into their gameplan. The Capitalists do not care about this country any more than they care about Russia, Canada, or Burkina Faso—they care about profit alone.

    Watch Ms Warren’s short rallying call with a mind more open than you are used to—and get used to her as well, as she will be replacing Teagagger Golden Boy Scott Brown in the Senate shortly.

    PS— If you do not believe that patriotism is a virus, check out the Einsatzgruppen SS super-patriots with babies on the ends of their bayonets—this sad and beautiful world needs a Jonas Salk to once and for all rid us of the scourge of patriotism.

  • jopa

    Jeffh;Where I come up with this stuff is on this site.You seem to forget what fabricated story you are telling from day to day.One day you claim to be able to buy all the guns and ammo available then the next week you tell everyone that you and your brother got booted out of his house because you couldn’t pay the mortgage,Then you make a claim of you and your father just reminiscing about the show dogs you had and then the next week in a different post you say he was born in 1907.Oh, and then there is the 500 rounds of ammo you bought for less than $5.00 delivered to your door.You didn’t say but it was probably the same ammo the Lone Ranger used.You would never be as credible as Eddie.Take notes of your own writings you are beginning to sound foolish or maybe alzheimer’s is kicking in.

    • JeffH

      jopa, like I said,you have quite an imagination and quite a poor memory. Nothing you said is true with the exception that my brother’s house was forclosed on…”my brother’s house” and my reminising with my father…comprende! Other than that there’s not one shred of fact or truth to anything you’ve said…quite an imagination though.

      Speaking of alzheimers…you have kept those “fabricated comments” and can re-post them, right? Are you related to eddie?

  • jopa

    Dave H; It’s not a matter of being scarce it’s a matter of me also still having a real life.You never know if you are going to be here next week so make the best of what you have.Sunday I will be leaving for another cruise and I know you will miss me.Be back in about 8 days.

    • libertytrain

      shoot, I thought only the Republicans were supposed to be able to afford a cruise according to the libs posts here… hmmm. :)

      • eddie47d

        I’ve been on four cruises so I must have missed that debate. The last one was 8 years ago and since I retired there may not be anymore. It won’t help either that my wife was laid off this past Monday. Life does and will go on.

        • libertytrain

          You’re right, life does go on. No matter what our attitude is.

    • DaveH

      While you’re cruising around, Jopa, think about all the people who are suffering as a result of Liberal Politics, apparently including Eddie’s wife.

  • Thinking About

    I knew years ago when I paid more in taxes on $10,000 salary than Nixon paid as president in the same year. Fair, heck no. Now 68% of the highest earners says they should be paying more in taxes it should throw a clue to our Congress of NO but will probably fall on deaf ears especially those whose master is Grover Norqist. Why can’t Congress figure even simple decisions and remember their oath of office in serving the people.

    • DaveH

      Ahh, you have to love the tyranny of the majority. NOT. Why would you think, TA, that if a majority of people have certain wants and needs that it is okay for them to Force those desires on the minority?
      And pardon me for doubting that you paid more taxes than Nixon with a $10,000 salary. Of course I’m assuming you were talking about per year not per month.
      Here is the reality of Income Taxation:
      http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

      • Thinking About

        I am surprised you do not know this information but tis true. Mr Buffet also sees the same comparison when looking to the amount of taxes he pays as compared to the amount his secretary pays. Why should Mr Buffet shut up in stating facts which are true? Maybe too many who wants to continue disparity finds this shields the real truth.

        • DaveH

          We’re talking about the share of taxes that the Rich pay, aren’t we, TA?
          I just proved that they pay much more than their “fair” share. Your shell game with marginal brackets and loopholes that apply to certain companies means nothing to me. The proof is in the amount of gross income taxes that the Rich actually pay as evidenced by the IRS figures.
          That is opposed to the fact that 47% of the taxpayers, pay NO income taxes. Yet they get to vote on how that money is spent. How many investment clubs would you join where 47% of the members got to vote on the investments and partake of them, when they didn’t have to put any money in the pool?

          • Thinking About

            I paid more money in taxes on gross earnings of $10,000 than Nixon did in the same year and he was president. I was not referring to percentage. This is a problem, too many loop holes.

          • DaveH

            So what if you did, TA? I could care less about whether you did or didn’t, but you still haven’t offered any proof to back up your claim.
            Even if what you said is true, it is mixing apples and oranges, because the Income Tax code is very complex, and the individual tax rate involves a myriad of choices. Most of the deductions are simply tax-deferrals which means that eventually the Government will collect that tax from you. Without knowing details of both yours and Nixon’s income tax declarations for that year, your statement is meaningless.
            Note that I hate Income Taxes. They are a scourge on our society. So, I in no way endorse all that complexity that is the Income Tax Code.

    • DaveH

      And Congressmen don’t take an oath to serve the people. They take an oath to uphold the Constitution.

  • http://www.gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gilly

    Why not look at the Australian Taxation system as a guide which whilst not perfect could be looked at to improve your system. I suggest that all state taxes be rolled over to the Federal Government, except for fines and Judicial matters. Our counterfeit proof currency is also a world leader in technology which your money printing department should look at seriously by talking to our Reserve Bank of Australia..I don’t believe in conspiracy banker theories however my suspicion is that your money printers do not wish to make it harder to print counterfeit money as perhaps some State government departments may already be printing unauthorised real dollars,but even if my theory is totally wrong one could very easily jump to such conclusions when it appears your Federal Reserve money printers have not taken up any new anti counterfeit technology to date.

    The federal System should tax everybody and corporations in a similar manner and at the same rate so nobody gets a special privilege over others in your various states. There should be EQUALITY in income taxation rates. There should not be any capital gains taxes as this tax alone is debasing the value of bank held securities for every year that a tax liability increases every bank has a lesser mortgage security. My suggestions would help in the management of the economy better than appears to be the case now.

    Those of you who consider like I do that taxation is theft, should also consider that Democracy and the freedom and enjoyment of Free Enterprise your government system offers is not available for free without payment or cost. It is up to the voters to decide which candidates or groups of candidates are elected to pursue their favoured policies whether higher or lower taxes to equally apply to everybody whether corporate or individual. My free point of view from Gillysrooms from St Arnaud Vic 3478 Australia. One of Victoria’s oldest Gold Mining towns since 1850′s.

    • DaveH

      Just what we need — turn all tax money over to the Federal Government. Our founders designed our system with great intellect and care, Gilly. They knew that local governments served the people much better than far away Central Governments. They also knew the inclination of all Politicians was to grow their Power and Perks at the expense of the rest of the people. So they designed a Republic with the knowledge that life was an experiment and correct solutions weren’t always the easy solutions. By leaving the Sovereignty of the Individual States in place, the states could profit by learning from the good choices of other states and by avoiding the bad choices of other states (The Fishbowl Effect). Also, those people, who didn’t like the one-size-fits-all approach of their State’s governing body, could easily move to another State whose rules more nearly satisfied their particular desires.
      The further that seats of power get away from the people, the harder it is for the people to change things when they go awry. That is a fact that is not lost on those who seek great Power and Perks at the rest of our expense. That’s why they work so hard to gather all control into a Central Government.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com gilly

        I do understand your point Dave H, however your country is known as the “UNITED” States of America and your now telling me that you are really the ‘Divided’ un-united States which is really not practical in our modern computer age. One collector is more efficient than having 50 other administrations to collect the nations taxes. 50 extra groups of people to be corrupted by special interest groups. One collector is easier to keep an eye on than 50 smaller inefficient State Tax collectors and a need to collect more taxes just to administer the different schemes and sets of taxes for interstate companies to try to work out. Thats why you have so many more laws just to keep your administrations working in useless outdated activities. How can any business operate in 50 different states having 50 different expert accountants and computers…..VERY INEFFICIENT unless your a socialist of course. lol In Australia our few states are also a menace collecting payroll taxes, state land taxes, property transfer taxes and fines, however income taxes, corporate taxes and capital gains and Goods and Services Taxes are only collected by our Federal Government and then feed most of it back to the states. Not perfect but better than your multitude of systems are regressive taxes. I would not like to operate in 50 states, WHAT A NIGHTMARE. from Gillysrooms from St Arnaud Vic 3478 Australia.

  • jopa

    I know there are not a lot of Bill Maher fans on here but Grover Norquist will be on the show tonight.Should be interesting!!

    • JC

      Bill Maher is just another Liberal airhead.

    • DaveH

      Don’t you ever crave to bust out of the Dream state that Liberals live in, Jopa? I know it’s easier to eat the sugar than to awake to reality, but how can that sugar possibly sustain you for any length of time?

  • jopa

    libertytrain; When I go on cruises I may be down with the Irish like on the Titanic and not in the plush suites.When we pull into various ports the Republicans are already their with their private yachts.Just look at the bows of some of the yachts and you can just about figure out who owns them.On one of the yachts in Aruba the letters OXYMORON were on the bow, so I figured that had to be Rush Limbaugh’s yacht.

    • vicki

      If you have enough money for cruises then you have disposable income that you should offer to the government to spread your wealth instead of wasting it on cruises.

      Well you should do that instead of demanding that others pay their “fair” share.

      Of course Republicans already spread their wealth freely unlike Democrats who prefer to spread OTHER peoples wealth around.

      What evidence do I offer? 1. Jopa’s own words. The Republicans are already there at various ports spending their wealth on private yachts and harbor costs + all that money on food and such to be there.

      Oh and of course charity
      http://blog.geoiq.com/2009/01/07/dataset-of-the-day-who-is-more-generous-republicans-or-democrats/

      The reason Democrats/liberals are seen as more charitable is cause they spend a LOT more of OTHER PEOPLES money thru government tax and spend “social” programs.

    • libertytrain

      Oh, I don’t know you must not go where the Hollywood crowd travels and their yachts. Bigger than Rush’s – at least those I’ve seen in port —- I don’t do cruises, or boats. I’m not as rich as you… :)

  • Viet Nam Vet 67-68

    For 60 plus years DemocRATS (new Communist Party) have proposed higher tax’s for Millionairs and Billionairs yet to date not one has even offered to add to their tax’s extra money or have passed a law requiring they pay more, Why? Because they are Millionairs and Billionairs and buffet right now is fighting the IRS just to pay his regular tax debt while he rails that his secutary pays a higher tax than he does. DemocRATS great TALK but no WALK.

    • JC

      Liberals feel a great debt to their fellow man, which they intend to pay with stolen money…immoral rats!
      h/t Liddy.

  • Thinking About

    I realized years ago while making $10,000 when I paid more in taxes than Nixon did and he was president there was a problem. I am not talking about presentage but dollar for dollar. Talking about class warfare, this is the story we have endured for years. This is the same thing Warren Buffet is trying to say. With 68% of the elites agreening the tax code is out of hand this is a problem which does not take a very smart person to fix. Do we have those smart people in Congress or the same old bunch bought and paid for in Congress and this includes all members of Congress not willing to get the tax code fixed. Get off Warren Buffet’s case, he is right, keep it up Mr Buffet, America needs more citizens like you.

    • DaveH

      Why do you keep repeating yourself? Did you forget to take your Aricept today?

      • djdrew103

        No DaveH;

        He’s not repeating himself. He’s repeating the facts. When folks like you use Ireland to brag about not taxing the corporations and wealthy their fair share, then watch Ireland lose its ass as its people themselves turn out like in 2009 for one of the biggest protests the country ever had due to heavy taxes on the working class, then the truth comes to light. The Wall Street’rs run the country into collapse, the wealthy and corporate interests are patted on the hand and given leniency, while the working class pays the heavy brunt of the weight. It’s people like you that misdirect and misinform that are like the shyster doctor making false claims for his snake oil. You’re the one that keeps repeating yourself without using truth and genuine facts.

        • DaveH

          “He’s not repeating himself”?
          Then what was this, just a figment of my imagination?
          http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/please-mr-buffett-shut-up/#comment-609229

          You say he stated the facts. Perhaps then you can back that up with references to prove that he stated the facts?
          You say “When folks like you use Ireland to brag about not taxing the corporations and wealthy their fair share”.
          Where did I say anything about Ireland? Is that something they teach you Liberals in Propaganda class? How to put words in peoples’ mouths?
          I don’t know anything about what Ireland suffers from, and you don’t either, djdrew. As usual a Liberal Fabricates Facts about something he knows nothing about.

          • djdrew103

            So now I am marked a liberal? What’s the matter DaveH? Run out of Socialists, communists and all the other names. Did it Yes, I researched Ireland because as I said “People LIKE you” use it as an example for low corporate tax.

          • DaveH

            If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it must be a duck.
            By the way, I’ve repeated this often, but I will do it again.
            In my book, anybody who thinks Big Government is the solution to our problems is a Liberal. 20% of Liberals self-identify, so I don’t know why you consider that an insult.

        • DaveH

          Cato’s take on Ireland’s problems:
          http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/five-lessons-from-ireland/

  • bumba

    the gov is not allowed to tax without our consent. no income tax. maybe a sales tax, they need some revenue, maybe not. i just don’t want to have a job and then take my hard earned money away. thats what a free market is. taking a risk.

    • djdrew103

      No matter, since repealing the government’s power to tax just isn’t going to happen. What matters is getting a viable taxation system in, that shares the burden equally. Taxes are there to run a formidable yet functionary governing system. If we lessen the burden on the rich and corporate powers, then the burden is shifted to the working class. Everyone that brags of foreign countries that tax corporations leniently, always fail to comment on how heavily burdened the people are. You can have thousands on thousands of factories, and corporations that make billions, but if your work force has to live in constant debt to survive, the infrastructure is weak and solvent. In a financial crisis such as the Wall Street collapse, the governments try to keep their leniency with corporations, and increase the burden on the working class. When did everyone get so stupid as to think that government was all about nothing other than playing to the whims of the rich and powerful, the corporations and the wealthy. Sure they play a major part on a balanced economy, but give them total power, and you no longer have effective government. Government can do nothing if it is beyond their power and reach to control the economy, and misgovernment is what allows the economy and wealth to be segregated into a small package of owners and private controllers. If the government would allow for a fair taxation process, where all and everyone is paying a tax rate fair to their intake, then the government can give tax breaks to companies and corporations that prove their worth and valuer to the economy, If corporations bring their jobs to America or keep them home here in the US, they can qualify for more lenient tax programs. When they abuse those programs, then they are returned to their previous tax bracket. Only in that way can the government, the people, control the jobs and control the economy.

      • JC

        I see, so “All of the animals are equal, but some are more equal” (h/t Orwell)

      • DaveH

        First dj says “What matters is getting a viable taxation system in, that shares the burden equally”.
        Then he goes on to say “Everyone that brags of foreign countries that tax corporations leniently, always fail to comment on how heavily burdened the people are”.
        So, in other words, djdrew doesn’t really want “equally”. What he wants is for some people to be more equal than others.
        1% of the Rich earned 16.9 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) in 2009, yet they paid 36.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes. What in the world is “equal” about that?
        Do you get the gist of that, Folks? Liberals base their rants on emotion and fabricated facts, certainly not on reality.
        And the really odd thing to me is that while they denigrate the Rich, or the Corporations who can’t legally Force us to do anything, they give a free pass to those Power Brokers in Government who do have the power of Force, and don’t hesitate to use it.
        Above all, experience has shown over and over and over again that Socialism (which fantasy Liberals adore) has failed miserably when fully implemented.
        Read here for those “facts” which djdrew gives lip-service about but rarely provides:
        http://www.freetheworld.com/2011/reports/world/EFW2011_complete.pdf

        • Thinking About

          Glad you brought up the percentage of taxes 1% of the rich pays 39% of the taxes and relationship 1% makes more than the bottom 90% proves the point the other 99% pays a higher rate than the 1%. I am sure this will be hard to understand why Mr Buffet has stepped up to say the rates are unfair. Along with this 68% of the richer thinks they should be paying more taxes.

          • djdrew103

            You can’t make sense to people like DaveH. They are beyond the ability to have common sense, nor are they capable.

            They will continuously seek to paint a pretty picture for everyone, quote facts to their benefit and ignore facts presented, merely to try to stabilize their hype.

            You just can’t explain to them that sure, the rich and powerful may pay in a greater percentage of the TOTAL taxes paid, but also they hold the greater percentage of the wealth. That is all fine and dandy, until you get to that working class.

            The working class hold so little of the wealth, they have to go into debt for 30 years of their life just to own a home. They have to hold absurd amounts of credit card debt to even keep decent clothes on their kids backs, or make a home for a family. But they are in a higher tax rating than the rich, why?

            If someone holds a $2M a year salaried job pays a 17% tax rate, they pay $340K in taxes, but are “living the life” on $1.66M a year, and that’s fine. All power to them and the luxuries afforded them that they work for and deserve.

            Yet when someone who works for $65K a year has to pay in 23% in taxes alone, they have $15K thereabouts ripped from their checks annually, and that leaves them with $40K to live on, and that’s not that luxurious of a living is it? It’s barely a living! That’s a life of indebtedness, and then looking at probably 67 years of life before they can even contemplate retiring.

            All people like DaveH are really saying is, the rich deserve a break because they can AFFORD the tax more, not that they PAY more.

            You’ll find people like him spread like a cancer throughout our society, quick to throw “some facts” on the table to lend validity to their claims so that “ALL” their claims seem valid. Unfortunately those facts don’t answer the questions placed.

            They are quick to call you names such as Socialists, Liberals, Communists…when you dispute their form of verbal diarrhea. They’ll use those names because they know you are “pre-programmed” to find those names a threat, revolting and unlikable.

            The truth is, I am neither a Socialist, nor a Communist. If name calling were to be put into affect here, all I would have to do is merely lay it all on the line and call DaveH a “great deceiver”, but he gets a hard on with the diatribe and slash and burn techniques.

            The truth is, the working class holds more of the “burden” than the wealthy do.

            No matter how they paint the picture, no matter how much in “advertising skills” they may possess, the truth is in the pudding and how it tastes. right now, the way it is, the pudding tastes really, really good to the rich and wealthier, and the corporate powers. They can easily afford it.

            Me, I can’t even remember what pudding tastes like because it has been substituted with the “sheet” fed us as facts.

          • DaveH

            No, djdrew, you can’t make sense to me when you don’t make sense. Duh.
            TA says “relationship 1% makes more than the bottom 90% proves the point the other 99% pays a higher rate than the 1%”.
            How does that prove that the other 99% pays a higher rate? In fact, it proves just the opposite. If those top 1% earn 16.9% of the gross income (they do, see linked to article) but they pay 36.7% of the taxes, that means on average that they are paying more than 2 times the amount that they would be paying if everybody paid the same rate.
            I realize, TA and djdrew, that you guys probably still don’t get it. But I just don’t know how I could dumb my explanation down to a level that either of you might understand, without taking up most of Personal Liberty’s storage space.
            You gotta love public schools.
            http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

  • Kevin Beck

    In addition to the way the yappers about regressive taxes don’t talk about lotteries, they also don’t talk about how the low-income people receive MUCH more in benefits from the government than they ever contribute for those services. In addition to the debit cards to “take care of” their food needs, they also get many other benefits that are paid for by the rest of us that actually DO pay income taxes, such that a person at the government-defined poverty line receives enough in freebies from the government to give them the equivalent of a $60,000 income.

    Why won’t the protector class for the poor ever talk about this? I guess it just doesn’t support their world-view. If they would tell the truth about these inconveniences, then this nation would get back to being the place it was intended to be.

    • vicki

      Kevin. Do you have cites to support your claim of $60k/year equiv in freebies? It would go a long way to support the rest of your statements.

      Besides it pisses off liberals when you bring facts (they don’t like :) ) to the table.

  • djdrew103

    Kevin Beck says:

    “such that a person at the government-defined poverty line receives enough in freebies from the government to give them the equivalent of a $60,000 income.”

    Do you believe everything you read? If so, you need to be really careful of the BS you read!

    You really expect us to believe that someone living in poverty is living the life on 60K a year on free-ride handouts?

    Take a pill son.

  • djdrew103

    You must have tea with DaveH each day at noon somehwere?

    • DaveH

      What’s that got to do with me, Ignoramus? I don’t know or care if that’s true.

  • djdrew103

    I have had to struggle since 1999 after having to go on Social Security Supplemental (Disability) and have had to live with degenrating health to the present and beyond. I have been UNDER the poverty level, surving on what started as $500 per month, and is now $674 per month. My Medicaid is the only thing that kept me alive to enjoy my $60K a year exquisiteness of an existence. See the ludicrous insanity in the statement?

    Oh yeah, do like DaveH probably would and throw in that my Medicaid has paid in probably three times what I receive a year in sustenance payments and you have your “facts”!

    I have a measly $120 per month in food benefits that are “suppose” to keep me “living the fine life” with culinary blessings. I eat “lobster” (catfish) twice a week. I buy my “liver tartar” at the local food mart (bologna). I go to two different high classed restaurants monthly (The Baptist Church Food Bank and the Missouri Community Food Distribution Program).

    I afford a luxuriously funded central environmentally controlled home (a window air conditioner and electric forced air furnace) and send those checks in to pay the utilities once a month (only getting partial energy assistance 4 or 5 months out of the year – only two or three of those months actually pay during the extreme weather months). The rest of the year, I merely fetch the funds from my overly stuffed checking account (which holds a constant balance on the 30th of each month of 0).

    If anything happens in an emergency, I have to beg, borrow or starve to circumvent any unforeseen tragedy. Need tires? I buy used only. Need a battery for my Cadillac Escalade? I find a used one for my 1986 25 year old beat up Dodge Pickup Truck.

    A true life threatening health emergency? I have finally been allowed my government provided cell phone now instead of having to pay $50 a month for a land line, and can now more easily “afford” calling to have my oxygen equipment cared for, or replaced. I am lucky there for “911″ is now more “affordable” on my $60K a year lifestyle.

    And you think others are more ignorant to be fooled by your opposition’s claims?

    • DaveH

      I don’t know why you keep bringing me into this, ignoramus.
      I wouldn’t doubt that you might be suffering, but you can thank yourself and others like you for that condition. It was that Big Government that you adore that put you in that position, and it is probably also your own self to a large extent.
      Most of us are struggling now, because the “feed me, clothe me, shelter me” crowd has kept putting Politicians in office who do immoral and Unconstitutional things like redistributing the wealth (mostly to themselves). I call it Theft. That hurts everybody but those Politicians and their politically-connected buddies. They give the rest of you fools enough crumbs to get your immoral votes.

      • vicki

        Good example. If many/most of the conservatives now suffering alongside of the “takers” had not been forced to give up 40-50% or more of their income they could have saved or invested it and be much more likely to be able to survive the current economic conditions.

    • libertytrain

      and yet you still maintain luxuries like the Internet – or is that a gov program as well?

      • djdrew103

        Aw yes, a fault finder puppet pointing a finger at someone speaking a truth…and I suppose to be “blameless” in your book, I would have to use newspaper for toilet paper, drink from the gutter, wear sackcloth and go barefoot? Are you as ignorant as you sound? Is this your form of intellectual response? This is the best you can do?

        You have been living a shallow life son, if you think I shouldn’t spend $40 a month on one luxury I guess some would call it at least, given that the internet is a form of a communicative tool besides just entertainment. Actually, I stream my HULU at $8 a month instead of your $80 a month bill for Dish TV and your Netflix initiative maybe, so condemn me for that extra $8 frivolous waste too now, don’t let that go!. I don’t buy $80 shoes, or $40 shirts. I don’t buy many of the “luxuries” you yourself can afford with a better life. But with your little comment I would pray this to an unmerciful God. I truly hope you yourself catch a disabling disease or condition, slowly watch your own life degrade as you use up what insurance you had, lose what property and possessions you had worked so hard for, and the years went by to hospital bills and medicines until you just HAD to file for assistance. I genuinely sincerely prey and wish for you to “equally share” and then post moronically, imbecilic statements in mere retort and unrighteous judgement so you have that bitter taste in your mouth forever, burdened with a life less fortunate, then to have to listen to idiots talk about how entitlement programs merely feed the “hand-out seekers”. So then you can understand why I am not being merely vindictive when I say, such folks with such blinded ignorantly selfish self-willed egos can kiss my poverty stricken behind.

        • djdrew103

          A messed up system though, I will agree.

          I am here with my righteously sought for and achieved SSI and meager lifestyle while looking forward to this winter’s surgery replacing my right knee with a full metal replacement. The arthritis has severely progressed where at present, there is “bone on bone” in both knees and my right hip. The others will need replaced in the coming year and one half. I suppose I am “un-entitled” to those Medicaid funded surgeries of course, since I waste $40 a month on internet.

          Not seeking pity, I can handle my laugh as it is and I’m blessed in a way to have what assistance I do have, although at times I have to fight the bureaucratic hurdles to keep it.

          Yet right next door to me, a plump lil’ gal with 4 kids by her previous marriage, and 2 kids by her 2nd marriage a year now failed and divorced, lost her job and is on $290? or so a month welfare, and over $900 a month food benefits! How so? Her husband and her agreed to joint custody, 50/50, so he didn’t have to pay child support? That keeps the state of Missouri off his ass, and she can sit at home and live with her mom at 30+ years old.

          You complain about me spending $40 a month on the internet. Fools do abound in our country, next door, running our states and some even posting vindictive one liners here.

          • libertytrain

            Sorry my arthritic fingers are slow to type…you have a serious case of extreme self-pity going. Good grief.

        • libertytrain

          I’m not sure why you come here whining about your ill fortune. Did you need a pity party? I doubt if anyone here cares about what you spend or why… Life is tough sometimes… oh well. And seems to me you are wreaking of an envy for that which you feel that you don’t have… I work for a living too kiddo, but I’m not whining about it. I love a bargain….wish I had that option to only pay $8.00 for Internet – – I’m more excited about what I don’t spend and bargains…. If you envy $80 shoes you do have a problem. It’s the thrill of a bargain chase that I enjoy. Not bemoaning my lack of money as you appear to need to do – wallowing in vast pools of self pity. Poor thing. Get over it.

  • djdrew103

    Aw Davie, don’t be hurt! It’s just our day to converse is all, everyone else is taking a break. Besides, the “bringing me into this” is merely because you made your points clear and open when you attacked my own opinions, don’t be a spoil sport now. Its not in retaliation, its an enlightenment bro! Notice how it feels when you’re attacked specifically with the method you employ on others so freely? Come on now Dave, we ARE talking about equality here.

    There you go again, blaming it all on the “feed me, clothe me, shelter me” crowd as if they were the only ones to vote huh? So they are to blame now once again? You didn’t pull your butt out of the chair to go vote like so many others? I thought it was such votes that selected our leaders, yours and mine? really now, BTW. Did you vote for Bush?

    First dj says “What matters is getting a viable taxation system in that shares the burden equally”.
    Then he goes on to say “Everyone that brags of foreign countries that tax corporations leniently, always fail to comment on how heavily burdened the people are”.

    So, in other words, djdrew doesn’t really want “equally”. (Where in the H&%* do you get that from????

    (the word’s “equality” and it is what our Constitution is suppose to guarantee us)

    What he wants is for some people to be more equal than others.

    (The rich deservedly live their lifestyle of above the norm equality. No argument there, but when the extreme burden is placed upon the 99%, equality is thrown out the window. Right now, those powers that be, the one’s that serve the interests of the wealthy and corporate entities, are scared to death and fight tooth and nail to not only preserve their status of unequal equality, but to even turn the facts around so they can obtain a more lenient form of their version of equality for those who live it up on more than equal)

    1% of the Rich earned 16.9 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) in 2009, yet they paid 36.7 percent of all federal individual income taxes. What in the world is “equal” about that?

    (Number one Davie … all that proves is just how much wealth they really do own in that they can pay in their percentages that are so much lower than the common people, and still pay in that much more of the total taxes collected. Where’s your argument?)

    (The 99% paid in larger percentages of their income to maintain their less than equal lifestyle, to fight tooth and nail just to HAVE a lifestyle, what in the world is equal about that?)

    Do you get the gist of that, Folks? Liberals base their rants on emotion and fabricated facts, certainly not on reality. And the really odd thing to me is that while they denigrate the Rich, or the Corporations who can’t legally Force us to do anything,

    (fabricated facts? really Davie, are you expecting us to be so blind?)

    (we are forced to live in a nation that has been turned into and parasitically taken over by the true leeches of society that manipulate and control the wealth of the nation).

    they give a free pass to those Power Brokers in Government who do have the power of Force, and don’t hesitate to use it.

    (and if it weren’t for those forces in Washington, we would be getting wages likened to Mexico or China, because you can be guaranteed that the corporations and wealthy would not be paying wages commensurate to our standards now. Take Michele Bachmann’s – DaveH probably has a nudie pinup of her on his wall – statement that we ought to repeal the minimum wage in that the powers that drive the workforce would take care of fair wages.)

    Above all, experience has shown over and over and over again that Socialism (which fantasy Liberals adore) has failed miserably when fully implemented.

    (There goes that Socialist word again folks – and Liberals are Communists and Socialists! Be scared – be really scared! DaveH has labeled it with truth once more…be informed – be really informed! Communists abound in the US, next war? Annihilate the Commies!)

    Let’s note now, that it’s true that Socialism does fail the people, just like Communism. It was never truthfully designed to serve the common people, only facilitate the façade of claiming to do so. Yet if you wish to be “informed” in DaveH versions of the truth and facts section, go ahead and swallow the hype merely impregnated with words like Commie Cowards and Socialist Scum. He can brand any government sponsored act to bring equality to the people under such labels, and there’s your facts and proofs that they don’t work you see?

    • JeffH

      djdrew103, sorry your life is so bad…tighten up your belt, stand up straight and quit complaining…a little advice here, don’t broadcast your personal life’s woes around the internet, it’ll come back at you in spades, mis-quoted, mis-interpreted and totally fabricated by others.

      • JeffH

        …thought I’d add, your little attacks pointed at DaveH have been tried too many times to count and realy are amusing. He’s more than capable of defending his position against liberal attackers. As for the commie/socialist thing, you forgot to include Marxist and progressive in the group.
        Doesn’t make any difference whether you like it or not, it is what it is, and don’t expect it to change on your behalf.

        • libertytrain

          Jeff, what a goof this character is…

      • djdrew103

        So now I am complaining? and just what do you guys think you do? Oh you mean complaining about my life? Well, there’s not much of that in what I wrote.

        You guys take the cake.

        The only reason I gave Dave the tirade I did today is to let him see what he looks like when he does it to others, while showing the difference in versions of facts and the real facts of life.

        So JeffH, calling me a liberal just openly shows that epidemic blindness found here allot like the cancer it is, and it isn’t gonna get no better, but gotta label it something don’t we though?

        I will never expect it to change, you know what they say about it. It won’t change, especially in anyone’s behalf other than self serving interests.

        I am sure DaveH and yourself and others like you are more than articulated in spiting out diatribe. With that, I give my leave with peaceful thoughts.

        • JeffH

          djdrew103…as my dear mother would say when someone was looking for a little sympathy…”my heart pumps p– for thee”

          Oh, I hadn’t noticed that I had called you a liberal, wanna point it out? Of course you’re a mind reader too…right?

          • JeffH

            …unless, of course, you ARE a liberal attacker…

        • DaveH

          How old are you, djdrew? I’m just curious as to how you would only be receiving $674/month on disability which normally pays more than regular retirement?

    • DaveH

      And there you have it, folks. You would think that people who are on the dole would send the taxpayers a thank you note at least each Christmas. But no, the reality is that like spoiled children they will demand more and even threaten violence if they don’t get it.
      They are the ones who skipped classes all through high school, graduating with mediocre grades. Then they partied, while others were working long hours to get ahead and paying big taxes for those who wouldn’t make the sacrifice. Or they took foolish risks that others warned them not to, and after getting hurt cried for aid from those who lived less exiting but safer lives.
      Ironically, we Libertarians would allow them to do all those wrong things. But we wouldn’t enable them to ride on the shoulders of others when the bill for their bad behavior came due.

      • djdrew103

        …and there you have it folks…DaveH refers to people (I suppose his point is…like me) who are on the “dole” (I guess he means receiving entitlements not deserved or?).

        Skipped classes? Doing drugs? Crying for help? Dave…you’re a total moron straight and simple… and not just to call names like you will and do with others here in the past.

        In answer to it all…I worked out-of-country for a year, and never knew it would bite me in the ass later. To let your know, I am 54 and worked my ass off in the floor covering industry running crews and laboring with brains on some of the biggest job sites you have probably never dreamed of.

        In answer, that little work period out of country meant that I hadn’t and didn’t have to pay Social Security. Couldn’t have even if I sent them straight cash. When I had my DVT and they found the enlarged heart and wouldn’t release me to work condition’s in my field, it meant that I had missed those credit periods, those quarters, and disallowed me qualifying for normal SSD. A difference of around $3-$400 a month.

        Now I have told you this personal info because it is true, even though you advised me Jeff, not to. You are right, peep-holes “will” attempt to turn it around and disorient the truth. I never expected any truth to make a difference on folks that are so mentally locked in their modes that their blindness to the problems actually fuels and feeds their rhetorical drive. Like “Becky” said, the problems won’t go away using facades of truth like politicians and candidates do, we have to kill the monster somehow. We have a total lack of responsibility in government, no true form of retribution for their sins and intentional crimes.

        Like so many of your own claims and gripes about parties, you commit the same wrongs and intentional misconceptions right there in your own words. I expect it to make no difference because so many like you are not in any form of a learning stage for the truth, merely in the self egotistical diatribe game.

        So like I said, nothing I say will make a difference or even come close to a form of common sense to you, you aren’t capable of common sense. God didn’t bless you with any form of analysis close to that, only disorderly archaic discourse.

        To people like you, just like those impudent incompetent leaders who we watch on TV, the main goal is to “win” some form of game passing the buck back and forth, and to hell with the truth.

        So enjoy your wins, a pity you can see two feet in front of your nose.

        Have a great life!

        • djdrew103

          Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you.

          Never apologize for being correct, or for being years ahead of your time.

          If you are right and you know it, speak your mind, Speak your Mind.

          Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth.

          Mohandis Ghandi

  • 45caliber

    If Buffet doesn’t like the fact that he is paying less than his secretary, perhaps he should simply donate a few billion to the government. That is certainly allowed and they would be pleased to get it. But for some reason he’s failed to remember that … just like he forgot the tax the company pays on it for him.

  • Becky

    My God, can’t you people quit insulting each other and realize that taxes aren’t going to go away? And regardless of what you care to believe history shows that even though your precious Republican icon Reagan enacted tax cuts for the wealthy (under the guiding hand of the Lehman Brothers management)Government spending increased and budget deficits tripled during his and Bush the 1st’s era. Clinton is the only President in recent history that balanced the budget. Like it or not, progressive taxation is all we have, no one president is going to change it because the monster of a machine in Washington is too big now to stop feeding it. It’s like the monster plant in Little Shop of Horrors demanding to be fed. Until, we take Wall Street OUT of our Government and reform our military from being the biggest users of oil in the world we are going to be stuck with the mess we are in. That monster will not go away, we have to kill it first.

  • Robert Kissick

    Chip,
    Once again those who believe in the fallacy of Keynesianism are quick to discard your comments. “Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.” (FB).
    Individuals have a right to decide how they will use their time, talents, and resources, but they do not have a right to the time, talents, and resources of others. Put another way, individuals do not have a right to take things from others or demand that others provide things for them. Use of violence, theft, fraud, and physical invasions are not permissible but, otherwise, individuals are free to choose, trade,and cooperate with others, and compete as they see fit. (Economic Freedom of the World 2011 report).
    “We have so many people who can’t see a fat man standing beside a thin one without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one..” RR1964
    I’m so tired of having to continually correct the socialist left in America and their historical and constitutional inaccuracies regarding the “Republic of the United States”!
    “Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.” RR1964
    I could continue to give a myriad of quotations and examples of why Socialism, Progressivism or whatever other “feel good” names they call this ‘ism, has never worked and that MORE Centralized Federal Government is the problem not the answer but, time is prohibitive!
    The ONLY fact is the Federal Governement has a SPENDING PROBLEM NOT A REVENUE PROBLEM!

  • Soldier of Fortune

    Chip, you’d have a lot more credibility if you were a little more accurate; I really think you meant the Bill and Melinda (not Linda) Gates Foundation.

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