Please, Governor Christie: Shut Up!

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What is it with Republicans anyway? Why, when public sentiment is shifting in their favor, do they form a circular firing squad and begin taking pot shots at each other?

Let’s begin the sad survey with New Jersey Governor Chris Christie’s needless denunciation of the “dangerous” tilt toward libertarianism represented by Rand Paul, the junior Senator from Kentucky.

Sitting on a panel with other Republican Governors last month, Christie fired the first shot when he said: “This strain of libertarianism that’s going through both parties right now and making big headlines I think is a very dangerous thought.”

He went on to say: “I love all these esoteric debates that people are getting in.”

Asked if he was referring to Paul, who is often mentioned as a potential rival for the Republican Presidential nomination in 2016, Christie replied, “You can name any number of people who have engaged in it, and he’s one of them. I mean these esoteric, intellectual debates.”

Christie suggested that anyone who opposes National Security Agency surveillance efforts should talk to the families of those who died in the 9/11 attacks. “I want them to come to New Jersey and sit across from the widows and orphans and have that conversation,” he declared. “And they won’t. ’Cause that’s a lot tougher conversation to have.”

Paul responded via Twitter.

Regarding Christie’s comments, Paul told Newsmax: “It’s a low blow to anyone to use someone’s tragedy.”

Could the debate sink any lower? Well, yes, it could. And it did, when Representative Peter King (R-N.Y.) decided to pile on. He declared that his fellow Republican (Paul, not Christie) would have favored a policy of appeasing Adolf Hitler if he had been in Congress in the years leading up to World War II.

Turns out that both Christie and King are still annoyed at Paul for not agreeing to all of the Federal aid they wanted in the aftermath of Superstorm Sandy. Paul tried to set the record straight on that one.

“I actually supported giving them one year’s worth of funding and then offset the spending that we spent on Sandy — offset it with spending cuts with money that we’re spending overseas giving to countries that are burning our flag,” he told Newsmax.

But the argument over government snooping on our emails and phone calls is just one of the battlegrounds dividing Republicans in Congress. Immigration is another big one. So is the coming battle over raising the debt ceiling.

But the biggest one right now is on efforts to defund Obamacare.

While no one thinks that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act can be repealed in the current Congress, Senators Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and Mike Lee (R-Utah) are leading efforts to cut off the money to implement it. Doing that is “the single best opportunity to defeat Obamacare,” Cruz says. And he adds, “The fight we are engaged in in the next 60 days is the most important fight of this Congress.”

Not every conservative agrees with him. Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.), who can usually be counted on to support any effort to trim Federal spending, has been outspoken in his opposition to the defunding efforts. He’s called the proposals “hype,” “dishonest” and “impossible.”

“I’m getting phone calls from Oklahoma saying ‘Support Mike Lee,’” Coburn has said. “And I’m ramming right back: Support him in destroying the Republican Party?”

Those are unusually harsh words from the normally mild-mannered Coburn. They earned him some applause from Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.), who once dubbed his libertarian colleagues as a bunch of “wackobirds.” McCain sent out this tweet:

And Richard Burr (R-N.C.) called the defunding proposal “the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard.”

What’s got them all so upset? It’s the idea that if Congress doesn’t pass a continuing resolution by Oct. 1 to fund the Federal government, the government will have to shut down. And the Democrats have said they won’t approve any measure that doesn’t include money for Obamacare.

Syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer has made it clear that he does not agree with the GOP insurgents:

This is nuts. The president will never sign a bill defunding the singular achievement of his presidency. Especially when he has control of the Senate. Especially when, though a narrow 51 percent majority of Americans disapproves of Obamacare, only 36 percent favors repeal. President Obama so knows he’ll win any shutdown showdown that he’s practically goading the Republicans into trying.

Never make a threat on which you are not prepared to deliver. Every fiscal showdown has redounded against the Republicans. The first, in 1995, effectively marked the end of the Gingrich revolution. The latest, last December, led to a last-minute Republican cave that humiliated the GOP and did nothing to stop the tax hike it so strongly opposed.

Karl Rove has also joined the “don’t defund” side of the debate. In his column last week in The Wall Street Journal, the Republican bigwig warned:

For congressional Republicans, the challenge is to keep the upper hand provided by their strategy of passing continuing resolutions at current levels to fund the government. They must not overreach. For it’s an iron law that Republicans get blamed for any government shutdown, no matter who controls the White House or Congress.

So Mr. Obama is baiting Republicans to overplay their hand by forcing a government shutdown or failing to offer a constructive conservative agenda.

Daniel Horowitz, policy director for the Madison Project, is one of many conservatives who disagree. He has called for a “fight to the death” over this issue:

We stand today at the precipice of enacting the worst government program ever. We have two choices: we can continue funding Obamacare, only to find ourselves discussing modest tweaks to the law in 10 years from now — not unlike the way we are forced to approach Medicare now. Or we can end the cycle of big government by forcing a fight to the death over this cancer to our country before it take effect. It is that simple. There are no other options. Anyone who opposes the defund effort before the law takes effect is essentially admitting that Obamacare will become enshrined into the welfare state forever.

Cruz agrees. “If we don’t stand and fight now,” he said, “we never will. If we don’t stand and defund Obamacare today, we are saying we surrender.”

So the battle lines have been drawn. Expect the war of words to escalate dramatically when Congress comes back from its August recess. The pressure to cave will be enormous.

Do you know where your Congressman stands on this issue? If you don’t, this would be a mighty good time to find out. And help stiffen his backbone, if he needs it.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • Harold Olsen

    Chris Christie is nothing but a loudmouth blow hard who thinks the world revolves around him. No way would I ever vote for this Obama worshiping scumbag.

    • Don 2

      Listening to Christie speak is getting to be as sickening as listening to Obama speak. Both of them make you want to vomit.

    • dan

      given size and mass….it could happen,lols

  • Phil

    Christie is a RINO, like many other so-called republicans who attack the more conservative members of their own party. Well, I fixed that for myself and many others are doing the same. In 2008 by the time the primarys took place in NC, McCain, who I didn’t want, was already the nominee. So I registered independent (can vote in either party in NC primaries) so my vote would count for something somewhere. I d not plan to go back to the Republican party. I believe this era will be known as the rise of the Tea Party, and in another decade the Republican party will no longer exist, since it is morphing into the democrat party anyway.

    • FreedomFighter

      Any of these politicians/pundits that defend “Obama Care” are most certainly compromised or part of the “elites” global network of useful idiots and political soldiers. Obama Care and its thousands of control mechanisms is a progressive communist wet dream come true and will destroy American economics, liberty and freedom.
      NOT EVEN CONGRESSIONAL EMPLOYEES MAKING 100K TO 175K A YEAR CAN AFFORD OBAMA CARE AND OBAMA HAS MOVED TO MAKE YOU THE TAXPAYER SUBSIDIZE THEM. THE IRS EMPLOYEES DONT WANT OBAMA CARE AND THE HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF OTHER THAT HAVE BEEN EXEMPTED
      Obama Care is a train wreck of national proportions, its proponents seek power and control over you and all those supporting it — enemies of America.
      Laus DeoSemper FI

      • Bill

        Excellent analogy, Freedom Fighter
        Keep up the good work

  • JThaddeustoad

    The Rinos are out in the open on this issue …. We are not going to survive Obama care but GOP establishment does not care their interests are in their own survival…. What a bunch of selfish dopes.. The TUB from NJ has declared himself … look for him on Clinton/ Christie ticket in 2016.

    • Debbie Hogan Tate

      I WILL NOT vote for Hillary! I would write in a vote for my dog first! My dog is loyal to where he lives and will protect me! More than I can say for her or the “O”!! Guess who was fired from the Watergate investigation because of her “ethics” or complete disregard of them? Read this and find out!. Especially under “A Tiger Never Loses Its Stripes”! She was dishonest, underhanded and a liar even back then! I remember her well, as I am in my 60’s! No votes here! Obama and Hillary are two rotten peas in a rotting pod!

      http://www.capitolhilldaily.com/2013/05/hilary-clinton-democratic-president/

  • theoldstoryteller

    Initially I liked Christie. Then I found out what he was really about. Obama is Christie’s sugar daddy!

    • FreedomFighter

      Christy is a stealth Progressive now out in the open…for all to witness.
      Progressives are communists/socialist NWO Muppets.
      Laus Deo
      Semper FI

  • Frank Zappa

    Chris Christie, AKA “The Ice Cream Man” This so called “Conservative” $ucks, I would no more vote for Christie than the Man n’ the Moon. Christie is SCUM First class and 4 star. Christie is right up there with the Kenyan in The Black House. I can smell Christie all the way to the West Coast…..Corruption stinks in any form, either Repubicans, OR Demoncrat’s. I would not be surprised if Christie drove around in an ice cream truck selling DOPE out of the back of the truck. RINO dressed as a conservative. I believe that Christie recently opposed some gun control measures, or so I heard…..

    • Debbie Hogan Tate

      I prefer to call him the “Fat Man”! He got that way from other peoples money!

    • Bill

      Hey Frank Zappa, cool name
      Your comments are a true “Mother of Invention”

  • KG

    Why Chip, I thought you were a Libertarian? Why so passionate about Republicans? I thought they were all the same? Are you admitting that when people say that they are lying?

    Charles Krauthammer:
    Never make a threat on which you are not prepared to deliver.

    Yes, that’s just like never let a crisis go to waste. Which is what the republicans have become experts at doing. Thank goodness, for it’s this kind of debate that our founding fathers clearly envisioned for their dream of a democratic republic to come true. Christie is on the side of history, as well as true patriotism, unlike the ‘sunshine patriots’ that populate this website.

    • Bill

      KG
      There you go again, just making things up. “Never let a crisis go to waste” was a phrase that was coined by Rham Emanuel. Another one of your idols whose backside you love to kiss

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Yeah and just last week you were complaining that this site never disses Republicans. Go fly a kite, KGB. We are wise to the fact that you are just stirring the pot.

  • 4lifeandfreedom

    I agree with Daniel Horowitz–it is time for R’s and the Conservatives in Name Only to stand and put a steel rod in their spines to fight to the end.
    Susan Collins has come out with a weak statement about what is not good in Obamacare, but she voted for it in the first place, so do not listen to her platitudes! Americans should be outraged over so many things these days, but complacent is where they want to be!

    • Debbie Hogan Tate

      They never even read the bill on Obamacare! They just passed it!

  • BALONEY TONEY MAHONEY

    Setting aside the fact that ObummerCare will never work fiscally, it’s time to negate Judge Robert’s illegal decision to re-write the law for the DEMs & then sign off on it as constitutional. Roberts should’ve been disbarred & then thrown in jail for that one…he should’ve been disbarred even before that for not allowing arguments on Kagan’s clear need to be recused. He should’ve been disbarred during the hearing for letting DEMs argue it is a fine and a tax at different times.

    Considering that the law squashes religious freedoms & conscience protections. Considering , that even to bring it to a vote in Congress, several parliamentary procedures were violated, it is simple justice to try to defund it now! Once these social programs are in place they are virtually impossible to turn back , or even modify sensibly!

    GO CRUZ, GO LEE!!!!!!!!!!! SHUT UP CHRISTIE!!!!

    • Timothy Sullivan

      One often wonders just how much Justice Roberts was paid for his vote? With the stakes so high, it must have been a colossal amount!

      • jimzimmerman

        Tim,i don’t think they paid him ANYTHING. But i DO think that the
        illegal wiretapping caught either him or a family member in the net. The
        Godfather had his Lucca Brazzi pay him a visit and make an offer he
        couldn’t refuse.

      • metroman

        Money? Maybe it was something the NSA had and passed along. You know like the General/CIA guy who disappeared after the election because of a couple emails. Just Asking?

      • chris

        the NSA blackmailed him because they found out that he adopted 2 children which was illegal, they were irish and he got around there laws by going to another country to complete the adoption. I’m not sure about all the facts on how he did it but this is proubly what happened.

        • Timothy Sullivan

          Chris per your and other comments/observations I guess “payment” did not necessarily have to be in money!

        • ISHKABIBEL

          There were intimations he was on pharmaceuticals that messed him up…whatever, the man made a TON OF BAD KARMA!!

        • Ron r

          Yeah, and by tomorrow your post will be the truth on this page.

    • Ron r

      Can Cruz even run? He unlike Obama was really born out of country.

      • KENYAN KRUSHER

        Obama was born out of country ,too…..he was born in Kenya, His own grandmother said that early on in a you tube video that was quickly yanked. She said she was there when it happened. There are 3 highway signs entering Kenya on the border with ither countries that say, “Welcome to Kenya, Birthplace of Barack Obama.”

        • Ron r

          That has also been debunked, but thats another argument. so where does this put Cruz. Is he eligible ?

          • Don 2

            Who debunked it?

          • Karolyn

            Look it up.

          • Ron r

            I ask about Cruz and they go off on attack the Kenyan mold. Amazing that with all the proof they think they have no one takes them serious. The man is in his second term. Oh, my bad its the main stream medias fault.

          • Karolyn

            It wouldn’t matter if there was a date-stamped video of the birth with the name of the hospital on the wall and his father standing at his mother’s side. They wouldn’t believe it.

          • Ron r

            You’re right. I’m just glad they are confined to the Internet.

          • Don 2

            And you don’t have that either, do you?

          • Don 2

            In other words, you got nothing! Isn’t it amazing that the State of Hawaii now admits that they have no birth certificate on file anywhere for a Barack H. Obama?

          • Karolyn

            Check the link I posted twice elsewhere.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Is the Kenyan FRAUD eligible ?

          • Ron r

            You’re funny , everyone should have a conspiracy theorist like you. Or fiction writer. Now about Cruz . And you need help or someone to talk to about your hatred of Africans.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Either way you twisted yourself. You are not an African and by your own words Obama is one.

          • Ron r

            Yes Obamas father is Kenyan which makes him part Kenyan. He was not born there.

          • Vigilant

            Born here or not, his mother was an American citizen and that’s sufficient for Constitutional purposes of eligibility.

            The courts have ruled so and all legal interpretations of it are in conformance with it.

            My wife is a Dutch citizen, two of my sons were born in the Netherlands, and I have a State Department Report of US Citizen Born Abroad for each one.

            Either or both sons could legally run for president.

          • KG

            What if they were black?

          • Vigilant

            What if they were?

          • KENYAN KRUSHER

            The evidence about Obummer being born in Kenya is circumstantial, but there is a ton of it out there…His Anti-American, anti-white mom was desperate to get back to the states & suck on the Nanny state teat, after Daddy-O left her high & dry…Daddy-O may have been that Commie, Davis guy anyway!

            Obummer is not part of the mandala of this nation, he is not part of the legions of souls born here who cherish freedom & liberty & who know intheir souls the Divine Origins of this nation, that Almight God himself was directing the Founders! Are we fulfilling our Divine plan of this nation? No, not right now, we are off course, but there is always hope with souls like Cruz & Coburn & The Pauls, etc…..Don’t give up the ship!! WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE….even fixing what Obummer & His corrupt, loony toons Lib/PC pals have wrought!

          • Ron r

            Ok , you both answered my question. Ted Cruz is not eligible to run for president because according to birthers ,like Obama he was born out of country. Thanks guys, for your direct and honest answer.

        • Ron r

          And Cruz????????

        • Karolyn

          She did not say that. It was a translation problem. Even though the interviewer kept trying later to get her to say he was born in Kenya, she kept telling him he was born in Hawaii.

          http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/donald-youre-fired/

      • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

        THE KENYAN PUPPET WAS BORN IN KENYA

        THE OFFICIAL REPORT OF THE KENYAN PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE on November 5, 2008 (next day after U.S. elections):

        Page 19
        “Mr.Deputy Speaker, Sir, the President-elect, Mr. Obama, IS A SON OF THE SOIL OF THIS COUNTRY. Every other country IN THIS CONTINENT is celebrating the Obama win. (Ron, I hope you aware on WHAT continent Kenya is. Right, Ron, it would be AFRICA)

        “…This means NATIONAL “Kenyan” importance. The election of Senator Barrack Obama–An hon. Member: It is President Obama!
        Mr. Deputy Speaker: President-elect has not been sworn-in yet. The election of President elect Obama is of utmost national importance to the United States of America…I just want to seek guidance from the Chair on this matter. Considering the fact that even His Excellency the President declared that tomorrow will be a NATIONAL HOLIDAY TO CELEBRATE Obama’s SUCCESS…”

        Ron, please explain us, WHY would Kenyans declare “a
        NATIONAL HOLIDAY TO CELEBRATE Obama’s SUCCESS”?

        Page 20
        “Hon. Members, as you may be aware, the people of the United States of America have just had a historic election where the SON OF THIS SOIL, Barrack Hussein Obama, has been elected the 44th President of the United States of America and the first African-American President in the history of that country, please join me in registering and sending this House’s congratulations to the President-elect Obama for overcoming great odds to emerge victorious.”

        THE OFFICIAL REPORT OF THE KENYAN PARLIAMENTARY DEBATE on March 25, 2010

        Page 31
        If America was living in a situation where they feared ethnicity and did not see itself as a multiparty state or nation, how could a young man born here in Kenya, who is not even a native American, become the President of America?

        Ron, watch this Video: Obama’s REAL BC FOUND? ~ Kenyan Parliament: Obama NOT a Native American, he is Son of
        this Soil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaiUEAssk0g

        Ron, you libtards, will LIE thru your teeth and deny ALL FACTS.

        “For NOTHING is SECRET that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light.” (Luke 8:17)

        “Magna est VERITAS et praevalet” – “The truth is great and will prevail”

        Ron, More you, Left-Wingers DENY and LIE, more FACTS come out on light.

        Ron, Thanks for give me one more OPPORTUNITY to provide readers with the irresistible and overpowering FACTS. I know you will deny the crushing FACTS, but the readers are provided with the UNDENIABLE and UNDISPUTABLE FACTS.

        Thanks Ron,

        Alondra

        • Ron r

          I ask about the Canadian puppet . He was born where he says. Your junk has long since been debunked. What about cruz or is there a different standard??

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            There was NONE “debunk”, but LIES, DENIALS and attacks on the TRUTH.

            But any way, please provide sources of the “debunk”, you are referring to.

            P.S. Please stay tuned for the further information/FACTS.
            And sorry, I forgot to provide you with link to the Kenyan Parliament. Here is their Website. Check for yourself.
            http://www.parliament.go.ke/plone/archive/archive

          • Ron r

            Do you ever wonder why with all the proof you have as to the president and Kenya that you and others are at this date in his second term still considered crack pots by everyone with more than a third grade education . Go write a good fiction book. You’re good at it. And relaxxxxxxx.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Keep puke your diarrhetic liberal talking points. It’s your
            job’s responsibility/description.

          • ISHKABIBEL

            CRUZ, CRUZ, CRUZ…..blah, blah, blah…..Cruz is not, nor has mentioned he is running for president, let’s cross that bridge when it happens. But, the dark forces that want to take this nation down & all it stands for, have installed this bum into the White House & cheated to keep him there, so they can hasten the destruction of this nation . WAKE UP!!!

            A blind, def & dumb 5-yr old child could sense he was not born here!

        • Karolyn

          Why do I bother? You probably won’t read it; and even if you do, you won’t believe it even though numerous points are made and shown to be true. This article came out after Trump made a fool of himself.

          http://www.factcheck.org/2011/04/donald-youre-fired/

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Twice I asked you do not bother me with your liberal deceitful links.

            What “numerous points are made and shown to be true”?

            TRUE is that his Long Form and the Short form BCs are Forgery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc3b8xVJStU

            His Selective Service Registration Card is Forgery (The Selective Service response to FOIA request for information: A sworn affidavit of Jeffrey Stephan
            Coffman, former Chief Investigator of the Special Investigations unit of the U.S. Coast Guard, stating that Obama’s selective service registration is a
            FABRICATED document.)

            He and his “wife” have MULTIPLE SS numbers.

            Next time go with your liberal garbage to “Yo Morron000”, Ron r, Dave, Jeff, smile, rbrooks, KG, Louis and alike.

            I NEVER saw such bizarrely stupid female as you are. Number of people on this Web pointed at your stupid and
            incoherent comments, but you still bring your ridiculous stupidity continuously.

            “Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, for SHE DESPISES THE WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE” – King Solomon (Proverbs 23:9)

            P.S. Trump made the Kenyan Kriminal FOOL, because he posted on the WH Website the forged BC and in hours it was proven that BC is FORGERY. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJH7uVXJdRs

          • smilee

            Why are you afraid of the truth?????

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            WHAT “truth”? Satan’s sons do NEVER tell TRUTH.

            Because “You are of your father the devil, and the DESIRES OF YOUR FATHER YOU WANT TO DO … He does NOT STAND IN THE TRUTH, because THERE IS NO TRUTH IN HIM. When he speaks a LIE, he speaks from his own resources, for HE IS A LIAR AND THE FATHER OF IT.” (John 8:44)

            Satan’s sons and daughters “CALL EVIL GOOD,
            AND GOOD EVIL … put DARKNESS FOR LIGHT, AND LIGHT FOR DARKNESS … put BITTER FOR SWEET, AND SWEET FOR BITTER! Woe to those, WHO ARE WISE IN THEIR OWN EYES, and prudent in their OWN SIGHT!” (Isaiah 5:20-21)

    • Bill

      Right on!!!

  • Al Chemist

    Governor Christie is a RINO. He could be nothing else, having been elected in a state like New Jersey. If you remember his speech at the convention in 2012, it was all about him. In that way, Christie is a lot like Obama, a self-centered, ego maniac. He is not going to shut up.
    McCain, on the other hand, might be reaching that age where he no longer has it…if he ever had it to begin with.

  • Warrior

    So I hear that the largest health insurers are opting out of the exchanges. You do understand what this is all leading to, do you not? DEFUND RIGHT NOW! This “program” only has “one” ending. Complete control! The sad truth is, for those “representatives” that do not support “defunding now” are actually for it.

  • James Grey

    Governor Christie is NOT a person to ever be a President. America NEEDS someone with a lot of brains n common sense, and all he has is a New Jersey loud,big mouth and would never get my Vote, for anything. He speaks n act like a Mafia Union leader, and of coarse, NO common sense. We must have a STRONG LEADER, that will have to put America back together again, because with HUSSEIN OBAMA, America, has fallen off the wall, into the dump.

    • dan

      CYNICAL : They’re going for the fat people demographic….
      but I’m not falling for it. …CYNICISM OFF

  • wandamurline

    Christi needs to go ahead and admit that he is a Democrat and change parties.

    • Bill

      Good analogy, Wanda

  • 1baronrichsnot1

    Because like children, the old guard doesn’t think that there’s room for a libertarian in any party, much less a progressive leaning GOP! These guys think they run the party. They, after thinking so, have run it into the ground with duds because “its their turn” then want money from us? Support a bunch of duds, all they can do is snipe at a true conservative, Rand isn’t libertarian, his father is! That’s the kind of dumasses we have to put up with, no way. I Say we are gonna primary all the obama azz kissers anyway. The John Mccains, the Lindsay Graham, all who go along with the marxist regime, all who tramp the constitution, all who put up with and tolerate this crap to get along, with whom? Some party who is ruining the USA, who is in competition to see how much they can give away, cause that’s where the votes are? GOP has an agenda, give amnesty, get those votes, IT’S TOO LATE goof balls, the deals been cut, you can’t give more to stay in power!

  • Vigilant

    “[King] He declared that his fellow Republican (Paul, not Christie) would have favored a policy of appeasing Adolf Hitler if he had been in Congress in the years leading up to World War II.”

    Can any Libertarian honestly deny that?

    The non-interventionist stance by every Libertarian on this site, and the platform of the Libertarian Party, have made it clear that they most certainly would not have supported the Munich meeting in the first place.

    “The twin pillars of a sane foreign policy are:

    (1) Building positive relationships, with an emphasis on free trade, and

    (2) Avoiding negative relationships, with an emphasis on military non-intervention.”

    (From the Libertarian Party website)

    Preemption has never been the policy of the Libertarian Party, as their stance on Iran abundantly demonstrates.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      The Libertarian stance is to butt out of other countries’ squabbles. Sides are always picked by the Crony Capitalists who stand to lose big money and would rather sacrifice human soldiers.
      World War II would likely not have occurred (Hitler would likely not have occurred) without US involvement in World War I, and Millions of Lives would have been saved, not to mention a much smaller Government in the US:
      http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

      • Vigilant

        You are correct insofar as WWII being merely the conclusion of WWI. And it was indeed the fault of the French and Wilson in levying reparations on Germany so overwhelming as to guarantee a resumption of hostilities in time.

        That being said, failure to correct volatile situations that were present in 1938, when the French and British had the wherewithal to stop Hitler, proximately created the situation that proceeded to take those millions of lives.

        Hitler’s intentions were clear (Mein Kampf), and he had marched into the Rheinland when France could have EASILY stopped him. If the world had not considered him a joke, WWII might have been avoided.

        In short, failing to deal with a situation caused by past mistakes was not a viable option. Butting out, which is precisely what the US did prior to Pearl Harbor, simply aided and abetted Germany’s designs for empire. Had we listened to the wise counsel of Winston Churchill, MUCH loss of human life could have been avoided.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Pearl Harbor was enabled by Franklin Roosevelt who had for some time wanted to get into the unpopular (with Americans) European War. He did everything he could to slap the Japanese in the face and then ignored all the warning signs of imminent attack, at the cost of 2400 military lives, so he could fan the flames of public opinion and get into the war.
          http://mises.org/daily/6312/FDRs-Pacific-War-Before-Pearl-Harbor
          http://library.mises.org/books/Percy%20L%20Greaves,%20Jr/Pearl%20Harbor%20The%20Seeds%20and%20Fruits%20of%20Infamy.pdf
          http://www.amazon.com/Day-Of-Deceit-Truth-Harbor/dp/0743201299/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346451859&sr=8-1&keywords=day+of+deceit

          • Vigilant

            December 7, 1941 was over two years into the war. The Munich appeasement occurred before the war, when we still had a chance to stop Hitler in his tracks.

            There’s much evidence to support the Pearl Harbor involvement by FDR, but it’s irrelevant (and could have been prevented) three years earlier.

            It’s called “preemption,” for which you Libertarians have no stomach.

        • KG

          Both you and Dave are really idiots. Libertarians cannot have a “sane foreign policy” due to the fact that they are not sane to begin with. The REAL ‘libertarian’ foreign policy would have been to let Hitler do whatever he wanted to do just as long as we benefited from it. So that makes Prescott Bush a proto libertarian as well as a closet Nazi. And you keep saying that you have ‘superior morals’? So killing Jews is a moral prerogative of libertarians?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            More KGB ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts.

          • KG

            Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.

            Thomas Jefferson
            In a letter to Van der Kemp, 1816

            http://www.sullivan-county.com/deism/jeff_letters.htm

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The only weapon that can be used by Progressive Propagandists for any rebuttal since they have neither facts nor logic to stand on.

          • Vigilant

            Off the meds today, KG? You obviously didn’t read my posting with comprehension.

            My point, sonny, is that intervention when easily doable could have prevented the slaughter of those Jews.

  • gpersonet

    Obama Care is not perfect but best available today for millions of American who can not afford market based BLOATED and little effective healthcare.
    Repubs do not whine about Obama Care if you can not offer any better solution.

    • Debbie Hogan Tate

      You need to watch this before you spew any more vomit! 85% of the people will be denied these services! This from a Congressman Rogers protesting Obamacare! Watch it and then decide if it is good for the people. I have no insurance but DO NOT want this farce of insurance coverage!
      http://safeshare.tv/w/zwhKdMtFHf

      • Doc Sarvis

        Watched the video; Without the Affordable Care Act the majority of Americans is being punished with higher premiums to offset the cost those without health care plans who don’t pay for their health care.
        Mr. Rogers thinks the U.S. can’t do a better job than Canada/the UK, and he represents us??? The private sector is not fixing the problems and the GOP does not have a solution just Obstruction.
        gpersonet is correct.

        • Doc Sarvis

          That’s “are being punished with higher premiums…”

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You can edit your remarks. Click the edit link.

          • Doc Sarvis

            Must I be signed in for the edit link? I post as a guest.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Maybe. I don’t know. All I know is that I get it.
            You should sign up with Discus.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Yes, you must be signed. If you do not sign, your post goes as “Guest”. And Guest’s post does not have an “edit” option.

    • Bill

      GpYour comments are based upon the premise that the government has to provide the answer to health care. It’s very easy; The people that can’t afford it should be able to apply and qualify for Medicare and the rest left to the free marketplace

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Why is the government meddling in healthcare?

  • Jeff Noncent

    what happen to Benghazi? Sir! and the Bomb in Boston, its going get bigger if the Rat and his administration still in the office, if you want to be in the side of the Rat, Mr. Christi than you need to step down as governor of New Jersy

  • Louis Lemieux

    With a true Libertarian government in Washington D.C., each individual on his own, anarchy would set in and the economy would collapse for many, many decades to come.

    • Ron r

      And Rand Paul wanting to defund Israel.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        I think what he wants is for the Federal Government to quit giving other peoples’ unwilling money away to anybody — small group or large group. It’s NOT their money to give.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        I think what he wants is for the Federal Government to quit giving other peoples’ unwilling money away to anybody — small group or large group. It’s NOT their money to give.

        • Ron r

          So he wants to defund Israel.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            And Egypt ($1.7 Billion), and Pakistan ($798 Million), and Jordan ($688 Million), and Kenya ($586 Million), and South Africa ($574 Million), and Mexico ($551 Million), and Colombia ($541 Million), and Nigeria ($491 Million), and Sudan ($479 Million), and……..
            http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/12/20/time-cut-foreign-aid-handouts-care-america/

          • Ron r

            The religious rights only concern is Israel . This could be a problem for him.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Were the religious (islamic) rights the problem for your PUPPET?

    • Bill

      You have it backwards, Louie
      The economy has collapsed for the last several years and is continuing to collapse further. Libertarianism is the only answer to SAVE the economy and our freedoms.
      You must be a unionized public sector employee trying to protect your dying dream. Just look at Detroit, need I say further

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        No doubt that Louis is attached somehow to the Government teat.

        • dan

          not fair ,Dave …anyone with so much as a driver’s
          license has compromised to some extent

        • dan

          not fair ,Dave …anyone with so much as a driver’s
          license has compromised to some extent

      • Louis Lemieux

        Good luck in tying to convince Americans that the economy is collapsing!

        • Bill

          Screwy Louie,
          There is an old statement that when your neighbor is out of work, it is a slowdown in the economy. But when you are out of work, it is a recession.
          You must have some real cushy government job that pays higher than market wages and benefits. So you are living in some fantasy world, that produces nothing, is paid for by extorting the tax payers and is destined to be like Detroit.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I think Louis plays the ukulele:

          • Don 2

            He’s in denial.

          • Louis Lemieux

            Using Detroit, one city; to make a judgment on the overall economy of the US can really distort reality.

          • Vigilant

            Then look at Stockton, Chicago, and other cities. Or, to bump the ante, whole states like CA and NY.

            But why stop there? THE USG IS BANKRUPT!

            Detroit and Stockton are just the overture to a massive meltdown. Stay tuned for more…

          • Louis Lemieux

            With over 30,000 US incorporated cities, only a handful are having serious financial problems and this isn’t something new.

          • Vigilant

            36 municipalities have filed for bankruptcy since 2010. As of July 23, 61 cities in the USA are going to file. http://investmentwatchblog.com/61-cities-in-usa-going-to-file-bankruptcy/

            Washington, D.C., Camden, NJ, Cincinnati, OH, San Diego, San Jose, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Baltimore now sit on the precipice, as well as a host of others.

            The number of cities may be small in comparison with total cities but these are large metropolitan areas supporting millions of people and hosting literally BILLIONS in unresolvable debt.

            All have fallen victim to the same ills that Detroit experienced, i.e., LIBERAL, not Conservative spending policies.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      An oxymoron, Louis. Anarchy is the absence of Government (not necessarily a bad thing). So how can we have Anarchy with any kind of Government, Libertarian or otherwise?
      And why do you think Government with their monopoly Power is more likely to be concerned about peoples’ safety than freely subscribed competitive security agencies would be? I thought Liberal Progressives were distressed about the thought of Monopoly?
      I think what motivates Liberal Progressives is that they know they have little integrity, so they project their lack of morality on the general population of people.
      For those who minds haven’t been shut tight by decades of Progressive Propaganda:
      http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard81.html

      • Louis Lemieux

        Anarchy also means disorder and confusion. If anarchy is to set in, it means a Libertarian government would first exist before anarchy. Where’s the oxymoron?

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          That is the bastardized definition, Louis, that was no doubt proffered by Big Government propagandists.
          The Latin root means Leaderless.
          But think about it. Suppose there were no monopoly Government. What would be the problem? Roving Gangs? Local non-Roving Gangs? But don’t Gangs always have Leaders? Don’t Gangs have rules? Couldn’t they just call themselves “Government”?
          You don’t think that in an Anarchic (oh the horrors) situation, the people wouldn’t form alliances to protect themselves against immoral Gangs?
          I must admit though that in this age of self-serving mooching immoral Liberal Progressives, Anarchy would be pretty scary.

          • Louis Lemieux

            Monopoly government? No doubt that’s how you call a government you did not vote for but a majority of your compatriot voters did vote for.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Yes, Louis — Monopoly. Do they allow any competition? It would help if we got most Government back to local level, but it would still be a monopoly.

          • Louis Lemieux

            Not that I want to be picky but “anarchy” does not have a Latin root, it has a Greek root.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sure you do, Louis, you think it makes you look intelligent. But as usual, you’re wrong. It does have a Latin root (which does indeed come from Greek). So what?
            http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=anarchy

          • Louis Lemieux

            Root in the sense you’re using it means “origin”. This is what I got from the link you gave me:
            Anarchy:1530s, from French anarchie or directly from Medieval Latin anarchia, from Greek anarkhia “lack of a leader, the state of people without a government” (in Athens, used of the Year of Thirty Tyrants, 404 B.C., when there was no archon), noun of state from anarkhos “rulerless,” from an- “without” (see an- (1)) + arkhos “leader” (see archon).

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Louis, you annoying dweeb, I went to the latin root only to show people that originally the word meant “Leaderless”. The definitions that you laid out were tagged on decades ago by Progressives for the sole purpose of denigrating the concept of no Government. Of course Government wants us to believe we can’t live without them. If anything causes Chaos it is TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT!
            A moral people would have no trouble forming voluntary associations and getting along without Government. That of course does leave out the immoral Liberal Progressives who can’t seem to survive without taking advantage of others.
            Read this:
            http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anarchy
            Then read this on the discussion page:
            http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:anarchy#definition_.23_4_is_derogotive

          • Louis Lemieux

            I said I didn’t want to be picky, just wanted to correct you on something that wasn’t exact. That’s all.

            What I do know about this world, compared to what I don’t know, is just a drop in the ocean!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You didn’t correct me on anything, ignoramus. You simply went off on a tangent and embellished. I said nothing wrong.
            Take your low self-esteem somewhere else.

    • dan

      without CENTRALIZED / FEDERALIZED government does not necessarily mean without law…Libertarians tend to be for MINIMAL
      governance ( self governance) whereas Anarchists tend to favor NO governance and chaos….
      the Republic as originally conceived and executed WAS a libertarian government with checks and balances against the aggregation of power.

      • Louis Lemieux

        No doubt the best libertarian government that existed was when Adam and Eve were alive! You cannot compare the existence of a government for three million people over two centuries ago with the one of a country now that has a population well over three hundred million.

        • Louis Lemieux

          A lot of our Constitution is a guideline on how we should live together, so there are still many truths in there to be discovered as the complexity of modern life unfolds.

          • dan

            Unfortunately ,the Corporation of the USA doesn’t follow the Constitution for the United States of America…and some believe that was lost in the unCivil War.

          • Vigilant

            “A lot of our Constitution is a guideline on how we should live together..”

            Absolute poppycock! The Constitution is not a Better Homes and Gardens book of tips on how to live. It’s a structure of government and IT IS THE LAW OF THE LAND.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      How would you know since it has not been tried? You and your Dem/Progs/Leftist ideologues have tried Socialism, Communism and every other ism and they haven’t worked but you kept giving them another and another chance.

      • Louis Lemieux

        Voters are not usually attracted to something they believe is worse than what they already have known.

  • hungry4food

    The RINOS see that this movement threatens their establishment !!!!!!

  • Marshall Watson

    Yes I see a lot of disagreement within the Republican Party as a whole. But the “Old Guard” and establishment Republicans have forgotten they were elected to do the will of the people who elected them, not make deals just to get along, or worse allow yourself to be bought for “thirty pieces of silver.” Those Republicans in office right now who are real Republicans know that compromise leads to destruction, to engage in talks that consider compromise will do the same. To stand for what you believe in requires sacrifice, everyone who prizes liberty will always sacrifice whatever it takes to keep it. Those who will trade freedom and liberty for the false promise of safety, deserve neither liberty or safety, and soon will be deprived of both to their everlasting shame. To Representative King for your remark stating that Senator Paul would have favored appeasing Hitler in the talks leading up to WWII, just what do you base this remark on? My personal opinion is that he would have voted not to attend the Munich talks because he would have seen them for what they turned out to be a waste of time. Yes the Republican party is divided, but the part of the party that is still truly Republican is far from divided and they are the ones who are trying to do the will of the people who elected them. I continue to pray for all our elected officials daily, including Obama, even though I refuse to call him president, and won’t until he provides the valid documents to prove he is a natural born American citizen, until then to me he is a fraud and illegally sits in the chair of the president. It would be refreshing to see our entire congress, executive branch, and supreme court act like our first elected government did, kneel and reverent prayer and thanksgiving to our Maker for His Providence that made the founding of our nation possible. Then truly ask for His guidance to lead us out of this mess we have gotten ourselves into.

    • Vigilant

      “To Representative King for your remark stating that Senator Paul would have favored appeasing Hitler in the talks leading up to WWII, just what do you base this remark on? My personal opinion is that he would have voted not to attend the Munich talks because he would have seen them for what they turned out to be a waste of time.”

      A most interesting take in this was published in 2008 by “The Delaware Libertarian:”

      “What Hitler was demanding was not unreasonable. He wanted the German-speaking areas of Europe under German authority.” (http://delawarelibertarian.blogspot.com/2008/05/hitler-narratives-meta-narratives-and.html)

      So much for the view of the Libertarians. Extrapolating that logic, an attack upon the US by Mexico would be deemed “reasonable” because they have a mistreated minority of citizens here.

      Victor Milan in “The Libertarian Enterprise,” casts the situation in its proper context:

      “Let’s look at that again: you have a nation recognized by the other nations of the world, Czechoslovakia. You have a minority in that nation which claims to be hard done by: the ethnically German Sudetenlanders. You have a separate nation – Hitler’s German Reich – intervening by military force in a nation with which his was not at war, and which had not attacked his, on behalf of a downtrodden minority.” (http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle1999/libe47-19990530-10.html)

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        What are nations anyway, but territories carved out by ruthless Gangs of Leaders who call themselves Government?
        There are always people in any population who side with the current Gang Leaders, and others who side with the would-be Gang Leaders.

        • Vigilant

          So, in your estimation we neither need a government, nor should we be grateful for the nation established by the Constitution, since the Founders were just a “ruthless Gang of Leaders who call themselves Government?’

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I will be grateful for any reduction in Government that can be achieved.
            Actually the Founders were mostly just typical Leaders who wanted Power but knew pragmatically that they had to tread lightly with the people being in their current state of revolutionary ferver:
            http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/08/gary-d-barnett/limited-government/
            Read this one for the whole interesting story:
            http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/Conceived%20in%20Liberty_Vol_2.pdf
            Long but worth it.

          • dan

            ….I wouldn’t say ‘typical’…some were quite exceptional
            in the value they put upon freedom for themselves and their posterity. Liberty wasn’t confused with license ,
            back then.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I said “mostly”. I go to great pains to try to be precise, but I can’t do anything about peoples’ lack of reading comprehension:
            http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/08/gary-d-barnett/limited-government/
            “It is vitally important to remember that the United States Constitution was drafted, signed and put into effect over 225 years ago by a group of politicians dependent on compromise in order to create a powerful nation state, it was not drafted by men intent on protecting the freedom of the individual. Those who signed and accepted the Constitution in 1787 did so without the legal consent of most living at that time”.

            If you read this book, you will better understand the times:
            http://mises.org/books/conceived4.pdf

          • dan

            ah,but we agree in so many ways,my friend. A Few were extraordinary …and they made all of the difference. The
            King was legitimate only because of the recognition by the ‘Church ‘.of one of his ancestors . What is legal
            and what is justice are not always coincident and the majority can only be counted on to vote for full bellies and personal comfort . A minority seek power and control . A very few have sought to subdue the beast which is government . Times may change but human nature does not.
            I would have gone native.

          • Vigilant

            “Those who signed and accepted the Constitution in 1787 did so without the legal consent of most living at that time.”

            Yeah, right, that radical near-miracle of governance that became a model for the world is to be denigrated for that reason. huh Dave?

            Rockwell’s idiotic statement is equivalent to a teenager saying “I didn’t ask to be born.”

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The Constitution was indeed much better than almost any prior Government document, but that certainly does not mean it couldn’t have been improved. For instance the “general welfare” clause was totally unnecessary and likely was inserted by people, like Alexander Hamilton, who intended to use it as a Trojan Horse later to grow Federal Government larger, as the Progressives have done in modern times.
            And you poo-poo the idea that people shouldn’t be saddled with contracts that they didn’t agree to, but you, no doubt, would foam at the mouth if anybody ever included you in a contract without your consent. And rightly so.
            By the way, Ignoramus, Lew Rockwell was not the author of the article. It was Gary Barnett. Why would anybody put any credence in the words of a man who can’t even get that straight?
            Now be a good doggy and go chew your bone.

          • KG

            Alexander Hamilton was on YOUR side of the ‘economic/social’ debate. He wanted the rich to rule America. Isn’t that what you want?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, actually KGB, it is either what you want, or what you are unintentionally getting with the Big Government that you advocate. Only you know which one of those it really is.
            Regardless, what difference does it make if Rich people are taking advantage of us using Government as their enforcers, or if it is just the Leaders who are taking advantage of us under your advocated system of Communism?

          • Vigilant

            “The Constitution was indeed much better than almost any prior Government document, but that certainly does not mean it couldn’t have been improved.”

            No. Dave. it was better than ANY prior government document. As for not meaning it couldn’t be improved, are you one of those Constitution bashers who faults the Founders for not providing us with perfect government? Moreover, you conveniently forget Article V of that estimable document, a tacit statement of the Founders themselves that they understood the imperfect nature of their efforts.

            “And you poo-poo the idea that people shouldn’t be saddled with contracts that they didn’t agree to…”

            No, cretin, I see the progress in fairness of political governance that was advanced light years by the Constitution. I see the tremendous enhancement of individual sovereignty brought about by the document, and I see the imperfect conventions of the day to which you and your ilk want to hold a yardstick of modern morality.

            Condemning a group of leaders who lived over 200 years ago because they don’t conform to your “enlightened” ideas is compatible with the methods of every leftist in this country who wishes to undermine our national heroes.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Vigilant says — “No. Dave. it was better than ANY prior government document”.
            So Vigilant claims to have perfect knowledge of history.
            Since that is unlikely, the only conclusion, that any thinking person can come to, is as I have stated before — Vigilant is an ideologue. It’s his way or the highway and no amount of reason will sway him from that stand.
            To me, Vigilant, you are not much different than the Liberal Progressives that I spend most of my time arguing with.

          • Vigilant

            Young Dave recently learned a new word, “ideologue,” and like all new learners, he likes to show off his knowledge of the word. The problem is, he also misuses the word, to wit:

            “So Vigilant claims to have perfect knowledge of history” (that’s called the straw man argument).

            I do? No, son, I don’t believe you’ll ever find that in my claims. What you may find is a claim that my knowledge of history is vastly superior to yours. THAT’S a fact.

            “Since that is unlikely, the only conclusion, that any thinking person can come to, is as I have stated before — Vigilant is an ideologue.”

            No, the only conclusion a sane person can come to is that you lied about my “claims.” Feel free to search for any claim on my part where I assert a perfect knowledge of history. I am obviously also your superior when it comes to logic. A faulty premise does not lead to a valid conclusion.

            TheOriginalDaveH is beyond doubt the unoriginal DaveH. He can’t even devise new ways of responding to truth. “Ideologue,” “Liberal Progressives,” and one or two other shopworn epithets are all he has in his bag of tricks.

            The public school educated kids really don’t have a clue. Dave proves it.

          • Vigilant

            Enlighten us poor wayward souls, Dave, as to which governing document in history exceeded the Constitution In excellence.

            Ah, forget it, you never have enough intestinal fortitude to answer my simple questions anyway.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The usual conjecture, name-calling, and word-twisting that I have come to expect from the ideologue who calls himself Vigilant.
            Those curious readers, who would like to better understand what went on in our country before the Constitution was signed, should read this:
            http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/Conceived%20in%20Liberty_Vol_2.pdf

            This is the point at which Vigilant will attack Murray Rothbard, which is his usual tactic against authors who don’t support his views, but just ignore the zealot and read the book.

          • Vigilant

            “By the way, Ignoramus, Lew Rockwell was not the author of the article. It was Gary Barnett. Why would anybody put any credence in the words of a man who can’t even get that straight?”

            Wow, you’ve really gone off the deep end, Dave. Whoever wrote the article is completely immaterial to the argument. And your Alinsky ad hominem attempt at diversion is amusing, especially coming from someone who said I argue like a liberal..

            I don’t care if Joe Bagadonuts wrote it . YOU are the one who linked to it, and continue to refer to it, and it says, “I have no idea why [the Constitution] is worshiped instead of denigrated, other than the apparent lifelong indoctrination and propaganda spreading that has labeled it the source of our rights.”

            THAT’S the significance of the article, and your attempt to disconnect yourself from what you did by ridiculing me is devious and totally dishonest. If I am a rabid dog, you are a snake of the lowest character.

            I’ve asked you several times to either own up to or deny that you agree with that execrable statement, and you have flatly refused to answer my question EVERY TIME.

            I ask you, why would anybody put any credence in the words of a man who won’t even answer a simple question? You are the ideologue, and amongst the many leftist bigots who haunt this site.

            So, for the fourth or fifth time, will you finally grow a pair and answer the question or not, which was “why should we denigrate the Constitution, Dave?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Vigilant says — “Whoever wrote the article is completely immaterial to the argument”.
            Hardly. What your mistaken slander against Lew Rockwell indicates is exactly what I have accused you of being, a knee-jerk Ideologue who rants without even having done the proper research to support his rant.
            We’ve gone through this game of yours in the past. If you can’t win, I will be subjected to a string of manipulative attacks and blustering. You can save your energy for somebody else, Vigilant, because I won’t play your game.

          • Vigilant

            Cowardly unoriginal Dave once again slithers away from the subject. It has become impossible to for him to directly answer a question or even dispute my usually superior claims in logic or historical matters. I’ve come to expect that from him.

            That is, of course, to be expected. He calls me his new favorite word “ideologue” and then refuses to listen to any historical fact regarding Abraham Lincoln, preferring instead to worship at the alter of neoconfederate Thomas DiLorenzo, the non-historian ideologue par excellence.

            He attempts to pontificate on matters regarding the Constitution, but has shown that he didn’t even understand the difference between Federalists and Anti-Federalists. He compounds it with the historically inaccurate statement that the colonies did not become states until the Constitution was written.

            As I said Dave, I make no claim to a perfect knowledge of history, but it’s one Hell of a lot more perfect than yours. You’re a rank amateur on this battlefield, more like Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

            It’s insanity to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result, but I’ll try it for kicks one more time: Tell us, Dave, why the Constitution Is worthy of denigration?

            Or let me put it this way: do you agree that the Constitution Is worthy of denigration? If you don’t answer, I shall apply the old British legal concept of “Qui tacet consentire videtur” and conclude that your silence implies consent.

          • Vigilant

            Of course you won’t play the game, you’re a neophyte when it comes to arguments on the basis of facts.

            “What your mistaken slander against Lew Rockwell indicates…”

            Now there’s a good example of your lack of logic. First, if it’s a mistake (and it indeed was), then it’s not slander. Look up the legal concept of “malice aforethought.”

            Second, it is not slander to wrongly attribute words to someone in error.

            Thirdly, if it’s slander then that must mean something bad was indicated, something the person slandered would find offensive or unwilling to air in the public forum. Tell us what part of the article would be considered as offensive or embarrassing to either you or Mr. Rockwell. You linked to it, so I have to assume that you agree with the point of view that the Constitution should be denigrated. And Mr. Rockwell published it so I have to assume that he agrees with the point of view that the Constitution should be denigrated

            You must have skipped logic classes or, more likely, never developed a mind keen enough to exercise it.

          • Vigilant

            To say, “Anarchy is the absence of Government (not necessarily a bad thing)” and to say “I will be grateful for any reduction in Government that can be achieved” are two different animals.

            “Actually the Founders were mostly just typical Leaders who wanted Power…”

            Absolute leftist propaganda. Washington, who could have marched on the capital and become king, who voluntarily set the two term precedent when he could have remained in power for life; the signers of the Declaration who pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor for freedom, not power; Jefferson, who tirelessly fought for limited government and drafted the Kentucky Resolution; Patrick Henry, who opposed the Constitution, fearing that it endangered the rights of the States as well as the freedoms of individuals and who helped gain adoption of the Bill of Rights; and on and on.

            No Dave, the Founders were by no means “typical leaders,” they were very decidedly atypical. And the radically different model of government they brought to the world, based on Creator-endowed natural rights and individual sovereignty, has remained unparalleled to this day.

            What “leaders” have done to the Constitution since the days of the Founders is reprehensible.

            You’ve made it clear time and time again that you have a problem with authority, ANY authority. And that hatred merely furthers the cause of the leftists, who work overtime to so meticulously tarnish the greatness of the Founders and the near-miracle they created, the Constitution.

            Saul Alinsky, Howard Zinn and other leftists profoundly thank you for the job you’re doing to further their cause.

          • Vigilant

            And now, upon opening your first link, I see Lew Rockwell opens his screed with “I find it necessary to once again address the subject of the United States Constitution, as it is in my opinion completely misunderstood by scholars and the masses alike. I have no idea why it is worshiped instead of denigrated, other than the apparent lifelong indoctrination and propaganda spreading that has labeled it the source of our rights. Nothing could be further from the truth.”

            My God, Dave, if you believe that, then I feel sorry for you.

            The Constitution should be “denigrated?” I repeat, Saul Alinsky, Howard Zinn and other leftists profoundly thank you for the job you’re doing to further their cause.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You’re an ideologue, Vigilant. And you make conservatives look bad.

          • Vigilant

            That’s the best you can come up with? An ad hominem?

            Since you link to Lew Rockwell, I assume you agree with him when he says, “I have no idea why [the Constitution] is worshiped instead of denigrated,”

            If that’s the case, let us never again read ANY defense by you of civil liberties and individual sovereignty based on the Constitution. Dispense with the Bill of Rights, the limitations on centralized government power, the enshrinement of the natural law rights to life, liberty and property expressed in the Declaration.

            Let’s not hear from you ANY defense for the justice of the American Revolution. Never again appeal to the propriety of the secession of Southern states by claiming that secession was not prohibited by the Constitution if you believe the Constitution was a sh*t document to begin with.

            And you call ME an ideologue? If being an ideologue means that I revere the Enlightenment principles disclosed in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, then I am indeed guilty of such a charge.

            I can only hope and pray that not all Libertarians share your view of the Constitution as an execrable document, worthy only of “denigration.”

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Vigilant says — “That’s the best you can come up with? An ad hominem?”.
            You can’t say I haven’t learned anything from you, Vigilant.

          • Vigilant

            You’re getting just like smilee. Nothing of substance, no answer to my detailed comments, just a “cute” zinger.

            Cat got your tongue? Tell us, Dave, why the Constitution is worthy of denigration.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Actually, Vigilant, it is you who is behaving like the Liberal Progressives — ad hominem attacks on authors, putting words in my mouth, classing me with Liberal Progressives. You’re quite a piece of work.

          • Vigilant

            Cat got your tongue? Tell us, Dave, why the Constitution is worthy of denigration.

            YOU posted the link, I didn’t.

            Or, Heaven forbid, does the omniscient Dave wish to retract the link?

          • Vigilant

            Yes, Dave, by all means give me the down arrow.

            Cat got your tongue? Tell us, Dave, why the Constitution is worthy of denigration

          • Vigilant

            Unlike you, Dave, I don’t run away from arguments. And unlike you, Dave, I don’t call everyone who disagrees with me a “piece of work.”

            Odd how you’ve skittered away from addressing a quote from a Lew Rockwell screed you linked to. Which is it, Dave? Afraid to admit that you agree with Rockwell that the Constitution should be denigrated? Or afraid to admit that you don’t agree with him?

            Simple question, asked three times and you run from it. Tell us all your feelings about the Constitution and stop being coy.

            Prediction: you won’t answer the question dead on. And you think I’M acting like a progressive? LOL!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            If I want to debate a rabid dog, Vigilant, I will go to the local Dog Pound.

          • Vigilant

            Bingo! Did I predict it or what?
            Add another ad hominem to the list: coward.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Woof!

          • Vigilant

            Hisssssss!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I said “mostly just typical Leaders”, Vigilant. Do you get the “mostly” part. And your fear of anything outside mainstream Propaganda is what is “reprehensible”.

            Those who would like to read some real history, not that written by Court Historians, should read this:
            http://mises.org/books/conceived4.pdf

            Yeah, I know, now Vigilant will launch an attack on Murray Rothbard.

          • Vigilant

            “I said “mostly just typical Leaders”, Vigilant. Do you get the “mostly” part…”

            Semantics won’t get you out of this one Dave. Your backstepping attempt is a tawdry word game at best.

            The Founders who made a difference, who were the prime movers and shakers re the Declaration and Constitution, are the Founders any person of normal intelligence would understand are those whom I am talking about.

            Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Washington, Franklin, Patrick Henry, Tom Paine, Sam Adams, et. al., were the Founders who made a difference. You may talk all day about “typical leaders” at the founding of the nation, but it would include only bit players who made little to no difference.

            So much for your “typical leaders” comment. It’s plainly irrelevant

          • dan

            …you’ve got to admit,they rebelled against the ‘LAWFUL”
            rule of England …and a large portion of it was to expand westward and over the Alleghenies (a fact conveniently forgotten) that started the French and Indian Wars where Washington gained his fame.

      • Marshall Watson

        Good rebuttal, Did Senator Paul make that statement or was it a statement representing the opinion of the organization as a whole. I agree with a lot of what the Libertarians say and stand for, but not all, I do tend to think for myself and not let organizations do my thinking for me. I can support an organization, but disagree with some of it’s stands. I believe that is a Constitutional freedom. I support our nation, but I definitely disagree with a great deal of what is taking place in DC right now.

        • Vigilant

          As far as I can tell, it was a statement representing the opinion of the organization as a whole.

          I find myself, like you, agreeing Implicitly with the Constitutional principles of the Libertarians but disagreeing with some of their other positions.

          • Marshall Watson

            This is true for several conservative organizations, I strongly support their constitutional stand, but some of their ideas I don’t agree with, but I still support them as they are a much better alternative than anything the “liberal, elitist, socialist, democratic, communists” have to offer. In fact they have nothing worthwhile to offer, case in point Detroit, an example of what they have in mind for our entire nation.

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    Chris Christie says — “I want them to come to New Jersey and sit across from the widows and orphans and have that conversation”.
    Sure thing. And each of us citizens should go to Washington DC and have a conversation with Congress about their overly-feathered nests. I’m sure that would sway them — NOT!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Gov Christie maybe should first find out if it is the job of government to support orphans and widows, and not throw around emotion laden ploys.

  • bygeorge

    “Let me make this perfectly clear”, “I’ll focus like a laser”, etc., etc. How many times have we heard these two lines, and others, drip from the mouths of politicians when speaking to a constituent audience as Obama does to us through the main stream media. It’s even heard now in a political ad using the recorded voice of Richard M. Nixon in his famous “I’m not a crook” speech. They have become so over used that they have lost any relevance for their intended meaning or to their intended purpose. We automatically then shut them out when these words are spoken.

    Which brings us to the once thought shameful term “RiNO”, (Republicans in Name Only). That word is so cliched in fact, and has lost so much of its negative impact that it has no real meaning any more. We use it, and see it, and hear it but we are never witness to a reaction. War hero and US Senator John McCain, for example, is contemptuous of it, indeed revels in just the opposite, groveling publicly before his Liberal masters, Obama, Reid and Chuckie Schumer, like a beaten dog. “RiNO” rolls off like ”water from a ducks back” or “bounces off his hide like teflon”… The cliche’s go on and on.

    Therefore, I should like to propose a new (old) word that might really reflect the true meaning of our squishy republican politicians who do not understand their conservative base: “Collaborators”. By definition, a collaborator is “one who cooperates traitorously with the enemy.” We know who the enemy is. It occupies the White House and surrounds itself with sycophants of Liberal philosophy. It has abandoned completely the rule of law, except by diktat of its leader. The US Constitution, the foundation of our rule of law and once the basis of our freedoms is a now used as a doormat in front of the White House. No longer do they obfuscate the true meaning and intent of their plans for “change” but now shamelessly glory in its implementation and many of our so called conservative politicians do nothing but collaborate with them. So, isn’t that a better word? I speaks directly to the problem.

    For us older citizens, World War II defined for us what a collaborator was. France produced its share of political collaborators, in Marshall Phillippe Petain and Pierre Levan. It is to Norway and Vidkun Quisling however, that we are left with the greatest and most lasting term for traitors: Quislings. But we shouldn’t go there yet. Being a collaborator is not quite being a traitor.

    Every country in Europe, during World War II, had its collaborators with the Nazi’s. These included volunteers recruited to various Waffen SS Battalions. It also included movie actors, stage performers, policemen and soldiers from previous wars. To be accurate however, these acts occurred either after the commencement of hostilities or territorial occupation by Axis forces. Acts of collaboration before conflict in a country were considered to be espionage (spies) and a firing squad was often the end reward.

    Apparently it’s in the human condition to collaborate, to go along to get along. (is that another cliche?) and that’s exactly what we see happening today. The only saving grace for Americans right now is that most are armed and will not give up without a fight.

    To use the word collaborator, in its worst connotation, is very harsh. Instead, the word, if used as a substitute for RiNO’s, should be written softly in terms of kind rebuke and gentle reproach, not stern accusation. The style of collaboration we see coming from our collaborating politicians is ideological, not servile. Idealogical collaboration “is a deliberate advocacy of co-operation with (the enemy) which is seen as a champion of some desirable domestic transformations”. Hello, Are we there yet?

    History has a lot to teach us if we just listen and learn.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      When most people call certain Republicans RINOs, they are thinking in terms of the Republican Party being the party of Small Government. But the joke is on them. The Republicans from the start (1850s) were the party of Big Central Government and Mercantilism. Nothing has changed since then, except they have managed to totally misrepresent themselves to the General Public.

      Read these books to learn the truth about the Republican Party:
      http://mises.org/daily/3704
      http://mises.org/daily/5074/Hamiltons-Curse
      http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf <—– this one's FREE!

      • dan

        not everyone researches the politics of the era (pre-unCivil War)
        but to do so places the desire to excessively tax (export tariffs:In general Democrats favored a tariff that would pay the cost of government, but no higher. Whigs and Republicans favored higher tariffs to encourage or “protect” industry and industrial workers. ) squarely on the party of Lincoln ,it’s apparatus (press) and it’s special interests.

        • Vigilant

          Tariffs are levied on imports, not exports.

          “In general Democrats favored a tariff that would pay the cost of government, but no higher.”

          Read up on the Tariff of Abominations that precipitated the nullification crisis under Andrew Jackson. The tariff would have been MUCH lower if Southern democrats had not fiddled with it.

          • dan

            doh ! I knew that ! Thanks….sometimes I wish I could remember half the things I know.Historian Reinhard H. Luthin documents the importance of the Morrill Tariff to the Republicans in the 1860 presidential election.

          • Vigilant

            Yes, the Morrill tariff passed after the South had seceded. It increased duties, but still only a fraction of what the Tariff of Abominations had been.

            Ironically, the likelihood of passage of the tariff would have been very small if the Southern states had not seceded. Democrats held the majority in the Senate until they seceded.

          • dan

            agreed…somewhere I saw that the requirement of requiring the Southern seaports to ‘tranship’ their cotton through the ports of Boston and New York and taxed before it could be exported to Europe (undermining their competitiveness) was also a part of the consideration.
            Protectionism is always a slippery slope.

    • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear bygeorge,

      You write: “Which brings us to the once thought shameful term “RiNO”, (Republicans in Name Only). That word is so cliched in fact, and has lost so much of its negative impact that it has no real meaning any more.” Actually, beltway Republicans are not RINOs. They are acting as Republicans have throughout history. http://personalliberty.com/2010/04/05/dont-pin-your-hopes-on-the-party-of-lincoln/

      A better acronym and the one that I use is CINOs (conservative in name only).

      Best wishes,
      Bob

  • Robbie

    Looks like the GOP will mess up again. Just when they get a guy like Gov. Christy who would actually have a bit of a chance of beating Hillary they have to go and attack him in favor of various nut cases who will do far worse than Mitt. But hey, Hillary looks like the next President already.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Christie is nothing more than a Dem/Prog/Leftist. He could con for a bit that he was a Republican, but once you got him flapping his lips he gave himself away.
      Maybe Hillary should have Christie as her running mate.
      Robbie, all this political conning and lying that you and your ideologues do tells that you and your ideologues would not win a honest election because you cannot be honest.

      • Robbie

        Actually a Hillary/Christie ticket sounds kind of interesting. They are both moderate and would govern from the middle as opposed to from far right wing place rejected by most of the country. They are both able to compromise and neither of them come out with totally stupid comments. I think you are really on to something with this suggestion.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Yep. They would keep on trucking with more Government Growth, only it would be slower, less detectable, more insidious, until the system became irreversible and then eventually collapsed.

        • speedle24

          You think Hillary Clinton is “moderate”? Robbie, I am afraid you are going to have to be placed in that unfortunate category of “low information voter”.

          • wagontrain

            He’s not a voter, he’s from Canada. They think Obama is a conservative in Canada.

          • TIME

            Dear Wagon Train,
            Please don’t insult all the folks in Canada, really there are lots of them that are just like you.
            Sadly little robbie is just one of the few that were dropped on their head as a baby. after all he was born at the ice rink in the dark of a very cold night, { das duh dain bamage is toe mush fo hiss dain toe hand-ol.
            A tad of humor, for a long weeks end.
            Peace and Love

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            LOL.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Are you sure he is not lying? He is a Liberal!!!
            And dishonesty, lying, deceit, and denial of the TRUTH are requirements for Liberals.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            That does seem to be the case. I think it is because of their general lack of morality. Lack of credibility is just the tip of their immoral iceberg.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Funny, but Canada has actually been trending towards Smaller Government:
            http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
            They are now 6th on the Economic Freedom scale and the US has sunk to 10th.

          • Vigilant

            Then he’s just a “low information person.”

          • Robbie

            Most of these labels don’t mean much to me.

        • JeffH

          Moderate? She’s a deciple of Marxism and Saul Alinsky and wrote her college thesus on “the Alinsky method of organizing”.
          http://www.hillaryclintonquarterly.com/documents/HillaryClintonThesis.pdf

          Her record as U.S. Secretary of State shows that she is incapable of leading anything. She had no major achievement as the U.S. Secretary of State but the reality is that she does, several – and all of them are harms to the U.S.

          The Middle East “peace process” is in shambles. Clinton’s role in publicly hectoring Israel on settlements is a central feature of that abysmal record. The one aspect of Iraq policy for which she was responsible, negotiating the ongoing presence of U.S. troops, was botched.

          Iran? If and when “engagement” and sanctions bring Iran to its knees she will be feted.

          The litany of Hillary-isms is long and painful. She declared Bashar al-Assad to be a “reformer.” She told China at the onset of her tenure that human rights should not get in the way of the U.S.-Sino relations. She bizarrely backed Hugo Chavez’s stooge in Honduras’s popular revolt and tried to strong-arm the democratic majority into giving back the presidency. She called the Poles and the Czechs in the wee hours of the morning to plunge the shiv, telling our allies to forget the anti-missile sites we promised. In a bad remake of a bad movie she deployed the clueless Wendy Sherman to make a deal with North Korea, which the gulag-state promptly repudiated.

          That she retains her popularity is a function of the public’s inattentiveness/ignorance and left-leaning political pundits’ general ignorance of or disinterest in foreign policy.
          http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/hillarys-record-makes-a-presidential-run-problematic/2012/06/09/gJQAyIXQQV_blog.html

          • Don 2

            Lest we forget her bumbling re-set of relations with Russia. We see how that turned out.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            They don’t care as long as they get their daily ration.

          • JeffH

            That’s must be what the trough does to those bottom feeders.

    • John

      One would surely hope not. Ovomit was and is extremely bad and Hillary would only be worse. She is an absolute witch.

    • Frank Kahn

      We don’t want someone that is as ignorant and corrupt as Obama and the clintons, so Christy is only a good idea for morons like you

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        New York and New Jersey have been the bastions of Mercantilism and advantage-seeking Politicians since the days of the colonies. If we could have somehow separated them from the rest of the country we would all be a lot better off now.
        http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/Conceived%20in%20Liberty_Vol_2.pdf

      • Robbie

        You probably didn’t like Mitt either and he lost pretty badly anyway. You want someone who will have even less appeal to the majority.

        • Frank Kahn

          First of all, no, I did not like Romney, but he did not lose so badly. Obama barely eeked out a small majority of the people who voted. And the result, of the popular vote is not necessarily representative of the opinions of the total population. 99.9% of the people I know, and talk to are 100% against everything Obama has done and stands for. Hillary, on the other hand, has an atrocious record of public service. She is purely evil, she seeks power for powers sake and nothing else. What difference does it make?”, it makes a difference to any normal human with compassion, she has none. She showed her true colors when she backed up her lying husband, for the purpose of maintaining her control of the white house. Billy boy was a consummate liar, he tried to twist the meaning of every word in the language to show he was not guilty of being a sex pervert. Hillary has lied numerous times in her position of head of the state department. She, like Obama, believes that what she does is beyond reproach and therefor not subject to truthful disclosure. It would be nice to see both Obama, and Hillary become leaders in a third world country, where they would be dealt with as needed. Usually that ends in a summary execution. Unfortunately, in this country that is not how we do things, we have to wait and then engage in mass killing of millions of people to eliminate the liberal totalitarian scum that is destroying our nation. It is coming to a city near you Robbie.

          • Robbie

            Obama won a clear majority of voters in both elections. In the most recent election he won a very impressive victory in the electoral college and he won all of the so-called swing states.

          • Frank Kahn

            A clear majority, as you now put it, is different than saying that Romney lost badly. The final popular vote percentages were 51% to 47%. While 51% is obviously a majority, it is not an extreme one like the skewed electoral count says. It was a deceptive 61.7% to 38.3%. This indicates the probability that he got most of his small percentage of popular vote advantage from large metropolitan states like California and new york. Maybe even states that have despotic systems like Illinois or Michigan. It appears that the election was determined by the voting of ignorant low level information people in big cities that live off the largess of the federal government. People that see themselves as little more than peons that must be nursed by government. The campaign, by the democrats, employed twisted hyperbole which changed reality to lies. They demonize republicans in a manner that is pathetic in scope and purpose. When they decide to act like adults and start telling the truth, they will never win another election.

            Unless, of course, they stop with their despotic tyrannical agenda.

          • Robbie

            You say that the President won because he was victorious in large metropolitan states. But you seem to forget or ignore that Obama won states like IOWA & COLORADO. Hardly large metropolitan states. WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA, VIRGINIA, NEVADA, and FLORIDA also went for Obama and let’s recall good old OHIO. In other words the President won in a large variety of states and 332 electoral college votes when only 270 are needed is an impressive victory.

            But there is a lesson in all of this. The Obama “machine” will be handed over to Hilary for the next presidential race and if the GOP does not figure out how to rid itself of clown candidate Hilary will certainly be the next president.

          • Frank Kahn

            Unlike liberal idiots like you, I research my facts. If you took the time to do a little research, you would find that almost 85% of the nation is blue. In almost every red state, the only red voting was in the larger metropolitan areas. Oregon was only red around Salem and Portland, for Washington is was mostly in the Seattle area. Florida, where Obama won by less than 1% the entire state is blue except the southern tip. Even New York has its red counties centered in the metro areas, the rest of the state is blue. So, yes, the only part of the country that voted for the liberal slime ball was big city idiots that have no idea what it is like to live in freedom. Hillary, probably will win, since there are too many idiots like you, but soon they will all die in the inevitable move to restore this nation to a republic, as it was intended to be.
            So, robbie, step us and take the first bullet for the country.

          • Robbie

            Red, blue, whatever. Fact is states like IOWA & MINNESOTA & VIRGINIA & COLORADO went for the President along with many other.

            Also, you might want to tone down your violent rhetoric. I won’t be taking the first bullet as you so eloquently suggest and neither will you be out in the streets kicking off the next American Revolution. Talk is, as they say, cheap.

          • Frank Kahn

            The democrat tyranny is killing us so we will kill you, that is not rhetoric, it is simple logical fact.

          • Robbie

            Frank – I’ll be watching the news and scanning the newspapers in anticipation of you taking to the streets with a gun blazing in each hand thus kicking off your American revolution! You sound like a genuine patriot willing to put yourself out there to begin blasting away at ‘the man’ and sacrificing yourself for the nation you love so much. You are not just all talk or BS as some would contend. You’re the real deal and you have the fire power to back it up. Hopefully you will inform us her a few hours ahead of time so that we can catch it all live on TV. Bye, bye.

    • Don 2

      Oh Robbie…..I have to laugh at how you stir the pot. You’re actually pretty good at it. lol

  • Sue Breslin

    A short comment with very big meaning-TERM LIMITS

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Here’s another — PLACEBO.
      The only sure road to Freedom is to educate the public to the benefits of Freedom. Not an easy task to be sure as the Leaders and their court attendants will do everything in their Power to prevent it.
      Here’s a good place to start:
      http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

      • Vis Fac

        The liberals have the perfect way to remain in control they have accomplished that by “dumbing down” America through their indoctrination camps formerly known as the public school system.
        Since smart people can think and reason they do not fit in with their liberal one dimensional idiot-ology. Smart people are hard to control, or fool.
        The public education system is geared to produce the functionally illiterate dependent on government and lame stream media.Semper-Fi

        • John

          Force, when the Iron curtain came down there were thousands of propagandist and physiologist from the former Soviet Block countries. The New York Times hired 9 of them in one day. TV stations across the country hired 100’s of them. The idea is to brain wash and reprogram the weak minded and they have done a very good job of that over the last 22 years. Hence the reaction of lefties when you disagree with them and the instant attack on your character. The lefties are very good at character assassination which we have all clearly seen. This is where it comes from, brainwashing and reprogramming.

          • Karolyn

            And “righties” are so polite and well-mannered, never name-calling and denigrating, right?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            We do reserve the right to bring our guns to your gunfights, Karolyn. But anybody who reads enough of the comments knows that the content of the Liberal Progressive commenters is heavily weighted to manipulative tactics (name-calling, ridicule, etc.) and very light on facts and evidence.

          • Vis Fac

            I am not afraid on my character being attacked because when people do I know, you know, and everyone knows that I am right and with them attacking my character they have lost (but won’t admit to) and when doing so is because tat is the ONLY thing they have left to save face and deny the truth. Sheeple (liberals) are prolific when it comes to character assassination, abasing others, and assigning labels
            Semper-Fi

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            You right.
            The ex-KGB agent’s WARNING TO AMERICA, which he made 30 years ago: With America gone, entire world will be under communism occupation.

            Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iz3VjoHXLA
            Social Justice means cruel, murderous communism
            No dissent [opposition, disagreement, discord, conflict, difference of opinion – consent] allowed under communism

            @7:15 The dissidents of the marxists/communists, who will criticize the system squashed [crushed, squeezed, mashed] like cockroaches. They would be used only for the destabilization of the nation. They are just instruments/ tools in the process of the destabilization and subversion [agitation, sabotage, treason, destabilization]. When the job is completed, they do not serve/do not need anymore. They know too much. They think that they will come
            to power. But that NEVER will happen of cause.

            @8:30 “You have, literally, several years to live on unless United States has to wake up. The time bomb is ticking. Every second the disaster is coming closer and closer … YOU HAVE NOWHERE TO DEFECT to … This is the last country of FREEDOM and possibility.

            If people will fail to detect the danger of that development, NOTHING EVER can help United States … ALL FREEDOMS will vanish … including the human lives.

            @9:10 At moment when at list some the United States’ population will understand that the danger is real, they have to force their government (not by sending letters, signing petitions) but forcing United States Government to STOP aiding communism

            Ex-KGB Agent Yuri Bezminov’s lecture: “The Art of Subversion and Demoralization”

      • Ron S

        ODH i like you and think you are smart and got your [expletive deleted] together, but, (oh oh there’s that word)….it is too late to educate as our Gov’t has been doing that for the last 100 years and this is where it has gotten us. To try to reeducate will take another 100 yrs + and we don’t have time to do that… ALL gov’t must be removed NOW, like Egypt, by the help of our own military. Bring our military home and get this country back in line…it won’t take 100 yrs!!! Our LE is on the side of gov’t and they must go as well!! Gitmo for the politicians and have individual trials. Cut most people off welfare and our small businesses will create jobs for Americans. Bite the bullet now, take down the so called “elite” send home the undesirables and let them fight their own wars and either live in peace or die trying. Maybe extreme but George Washington had to take extreme measures to become free and we will also someday or we will be just like the rest of the world…oppressed in their NEW WORLD ORDER!!!

      • John

        Since we have the communist running our public school system it is only remote possibility to get term limits or anything that is not propaganda and brainwashing.

    • Vigilant

      Term limits accomplish nothing beyond replacing one group of criminals with another more frequently.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Term Limits exist, the issue is politicos that don’t know when it is time to go home. In their own minds they believe that the world would fall apart without them being saviors.

    • Vis Fac

      THAT: would be a huge undertaking. Since Congress makes rules for everyone to live by and congress is the only entity that has the authority to introduce legislative bills, and: in order to garner term limits a bill must be introduced,voted on, passed and signed by the president (or a two thirds congressional override). The chance of that happening as as great as you ice skating with Satan.
      Semper-Fi

      • Guest

        Congress exempted themselves from the RICO Act, what could possibly lead you to believe that they would in any way limit the length of time they can engage in corruption?

        • Vis Fac

          I never said they would. If you will read what I said you would know the likelihood of politicians imposing term limits on themselves is non existent. Why give up a good thing if you don’t have to. Next time read more closely I said “The chance of that (term limits) happening is as great as you ice skating with Satan” What part of that is unclear?
          Semper-Fi

    • DaRueStir

      Congress exempted themselves from the RICO Act, what could possibly lead you to believe that they would in any way limit the length of time they can engage in corruption and extortion of taxpayers?

  • LINDITA

    AS PEOPLE, CHRIST CHRISTIE AND ALL POLITICIANS FROM BOTH PARTIES ROOT IN TRIBE GREEK ARE NOT DEMOCRAT, ARE NOT REPUBLICAN. TRIBE GREEK USED TO BE NIB DEALING IN BOTH PARTIES. THE GOAL IS TO TAKE OVER IN AMERICA DUE TO, THEY ARE SPECIAL RACE. OBAMA AND HIS TRIBE TAKE OVER THE BANKING, AUTOMOBIL INDUSTRY, HEALTH CARE AND WANT TO TAKE OVER THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY NOW IN VACATION TIME. THIS IS LONG-TERM PLAN. LA,LA,LA…..

    • Doc Sarvis

      Seriously – ?????

      • Ted Crawford

        Another, rare occasion when we can find agreement Doc!

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Her English is lacking, but you know nothing about her origins, so why be so harsh? I thought you Liberal Progressives were the “compassionate” people?

    • Arkham

      Just curious… are you a native speaker of English? What is Tribe Greek?

      • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

        Tribe of the Liberal Psychopaths

      • LINDITA

        I’M AMERICAN CAME IN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN LEGAL WAY TO ADOPTED IN AMERICAN LIFE WORKING TO LIVE ON MY OWN SWEAT AND DON’T EVEN THINK TO TOUCH OTHER’S PROPERTY. I ENJOY MY JOB BASE IN CAPITALISM DUE TO FROM THE COUNTRY THAT I CAME WE LOST FOR 50 YEARS FROM SOCIALIST FASCIST REGIME UNDER HITLERIAN DICTATOR SAME ROOT WITH YOU. I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. IMPORTANT FOR ME IS THAT AMERICANS THINKING IN POSITIVE WAY AND I HAVE FAITH TO AMERICA. AMEN!

        • http://socialsity.com/ LastGasp

          So quit shouting already!

          • LINDITA

            PROD TO BE AN AMERICAN. PROUD TO HAVE A FAITH TO AMERICA. I HATE HITLER AND GREEK FASCISM. I LOVE AMERICA! AMEN! THIS IS SHOUT FOR YOUR TRIBE AND A SONG FOR AMERICANS. AMEN!

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Where did you come from, Lindita?

          • LINDITA

            I CAME FROM FROM THE SMALL COUNTRY WHO FAITH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THINK IN OUR LIFE.

      • LINDITA

        AS PROFESSOR YOU KNOW BETTER THAN ME ABOUT YOUR ORIGIN IN PREDATORY TRIBE GREEK. I’M EXPLAINING TO AMERICANS: “ALL THE COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD ARE CREATED FROM SOME PRINCEDOM. GREECE IS CREATED FROM ONE TRIBE LIVED FROM SOME SMALL ISLANDS. PALESTINIANS ARE FROM A SAME TRIBE EMIGRATED 2000 YEARS AGO IN A MIDDLE EAST. IN THIS TIME, PREDATORY TRIBE GREEK DISCOVERED MORE LAND THAN ISRAEL AND MORE RICHEST PEOPLE THAN JEWS. THEY DISCOVERED AMERICA SO, USING SEVEN TRICKS ONE BRAVE, ONE DAY TERROR 10 DAYS QUIET SAID FROM HITLER ROOT IN A TRIBE GREEK AND TRIBE GREEK ARE HITLER’S FOLLOWERS. THEY BELIEVE THE DREAM’S FROM FATHER AND BROTHER WILL BE TRUE IN AMERICA. EVERYONE FROM TRIBE ONE PERCENT IN AMERICA AND BEYOND WANT TO BE GOVERNOR OR, PRESIDENT TO TAKE OVER CONTROL IN ALL AROUND THE WORLD, THIS IS “HOPE” AND “CHANGE”. DO YOU WANT TO TELL MORE FOR TRIBE GREEK 100 PERCENT CLERIC?….

      • Nadzieja Batki

        She is a phony. Easy words she misspells, hard words she spells correctly.

  • mark

    No, as long as Christie has his 1st Amendment rights he will exercise them. How rich when libertarians tell those who disagree with them to just “shut up!” No, it’s never gonna happen here, not in America. Although if libertarians like Chip Wood had their way, they would silence all who oppose their view. That is why their presidential candidates generally get 2% of the vote in national elections.

    • independent thinker

      Telling them to “just shut up” is just as much an exercise of 1st amendment rights as the words of those who are told that. You want a denial of first amendment rights look no further than the actions of the IRS under Obama concerning the TEA party not only did it happen up through the last election the TEA party is still being singled out for special treatment according to an agent’s testimony (Newsmax article posted today)

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You, mark, cannot differentiate between Freedom of Speech and Lying. Freedom of Speech brings on the responsibility to not lie one to another.

      • rbrooks

        there is nothing in the first amendment that forbids lying. if it did, this site would not exist.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          You mean, Flashman, that you and your multiple personalities wouldn’t exist on this board.

          • rbrooks

            you prove my point, thanks comrade

  • LINDITA

    AS PEOPLE, I FORGET TO TELL YOU OBAMA AND HIS TRIBE IN WHITE HOUSE ARE TAKING OVER ON ENERGY INDUSTRY, TOO. SO, AL-QAEDA’S THREAT OVERSEAS WILL HELP WHITE HOUSE TO TAKE OVER THE AIRLINES INDUSTRY IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. FIVE FINGERS ARE ONE HAND. ONE BY ONE TRIBE IN WHITE HOUSE WILL HAVE OTHER HAND. ONE HAND CLEAN OTHER HAND, BOTH CAN CLEAN THE FACE. LA,LA,LA……

    • http://socialsity.com/ LastGasp

      Huh?

  • LINDITA

    AS PEOPLE, WE ARE MORE SMARTER THAN TRIBE GREEK DUE TO WE DID THE PROGRESS, TRIBE GREEK STOP IN TROJAN HORSE PLAN USED IN GOTHIC ERA. LA,LA,LA…..

  • Terry Bateman

    Congress in general and republicans in particular are held in such low esteem
    by the public that it would matter not one whit if republicans blocked funding
    for Obamacare and shut down the government until congress passes a funding
    bill without Obamacare funding ending Obamacare.

    • smilee

      Dream on as it ain’t going to happen, republicans will to lose in 1914 if they do as they will get blamed for it by the public, remember Gingrich’s demise when he did that.

      • TIME

        Dear S,
        Oh really, the 1914 vote your working on, really?
        I figured as much, but I do thank you for clearing that up for everyone.

        • smilee

          Thanks for catching my typo. Did you really think I did not mean 2014 which was the year I was talking about

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Mistyping one number is one thing, but 2 numbers? And we should believe you have the slightest clue what you’re talking about? I think it’s time for your nap, Sleepee.

          • smilee

            PICKIE–PICKIE– PICKIE

          • rbrooks

            you should change your monicker to the unoriginal davey.
            it will be you and your fellow sheep that will allow the democrats to win yet again.

            your methodology could use a bit of work.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Spoken by the expert of moniker changes. How’s Jeremy doing Flashman? We haven’t seen that one of your personalities for a while now.

          • rbrooks

            you do provide a bit of ignorant humor.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I don’t know that “ignorant” is the proper description of you, Flashman. Evil maybe. Psychotic maybe.
            But ignorant is just too nice a label for you.

          • rbrooks

            the amusing part is who ever this flashman is, he must have bested you once too often.

            you now see flashman every time some one shows how ignorant your little rants are.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, the amusing part is that you think you are fooling anybody. For those who don’t know about the multi-personality Shill called Flashman, see here:
            http://personalliberty.com/2011/05/16/what-now/#comment-341969
            The system still has some kinks in it, so you’ll have to first load all of the comments, and then look for the phrase “Jeremy Leochner”.

          • rbrooks

            which proves nothing. this just another of your poor attempts to divert.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

            you have improperly used the term shill.

            it would more fittingly applied to you.

            you are always providing links to sites that encourage one to buy some thing.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Did I strike a raw nerve, Flashman?
            Looks like the shill definition fits you well to me.
            Do people actually pay you for your nonsense?
            Of course, it could be a conservative group paying you to make Liberal Progressives look bad. But then, that’s too easy, so I doubt anybody would actually pay you to do that.

          • rbrooks

            your ignorance has no bounds. that is what makes this site interesting.

            i can always throw bananas to you to get a laugh.

  • harleydavidson

    i will vote for the devil first before voting for chris christie. at least i know what the devil stands for.

    • smilee

      He has the best chance of winning the presidency for the republicans and again a whole bunch of republicans are willing to blow that and let the democrats win it,

      • John

        I disagree on Christie, he has no shot as a Republican. He is another McCain a full time Rino and liberal. Ted Cruz has a much better shot than Rand Paul or Paul Ryan. Ted Cruz is a guy where you know where he actually stands. A true conservative and he knows who elected him and why. Thank god McCain didn’t get elected. As Bad as the Liar in Chief is McCain may have been as bad. Romney would have been good and would have gotten the economy going and the country would have been a lot better off. And we would not have the Muslim Brotherhood in the whitehouse.

        • smilee

          I was talking about the presidency and he has the best chance of any republican to win it. Cruz, Paul and Ryan will all lose. They may have the better chance of winning the nomination than Christie but no chance of winning the presidency so if you want to lose go with the radicals. Cruz and Paul what to take this nation back to the pre civil war mentality but we fought a war and settled that and the country has no desire to do that so they have no chance to win. The economy would have been no different under Romney either as long as we have the tea part blockade in congress nothing can get done. Your last statement is totally untrue and you have nothing factual what so ever to support it

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            That’s funny, coming from Sleepee, the King of Conjecture.

          • Frank Kahn

            And all of your posts are totally untrue and have nothing factual in them. Simple ignorance based opinions.

          • Don 2

            You got that right Frank!

          • smilee

            Tell me that when Hillary wins!!

          • Frank Kahn

            Sorry, I will be too busy moving to a country that is ruled by intelligent people. Cant live in a country ruled by insane morons like her

          • smilee

            You cannot hold a candle to her. I’ll say Good Bye now as she is a shoo in if she wants the job.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I doubt that Frank wants to. The sight would be more than most men could stand.

          • DaRueStir

            I would never vote for Christie, he has no chance of becoming the next President of the US.
            Although he is somewhat fiscal conservative he is still a RINO who in the end will sell the American people short when they play let’s make a deal.

          • smilee

            I said he had the best chance for the republicans that does not mean he can beat the democrat so you’re probably right that he has no chance of becoming president.

          • carrie

            Its because of rinos like christie and mc cain that the republicans and democrats look like one big party! And what makes the third party option look so good! Atleast the LP cares about our constitution! Which is more than what can be said for the Demcrapublican party that we now seem to have. They’re hand in glove

          • Robbie

            Democratic government IS all about making deals or, better said making compromises. America is a very diverse place and fine balances have to be worked out all the time. You can’t merely say “My way or the highway” which is the Tea Party modus operandi.

          • John

            Ovomit has rotinely invited the Muslim Brother hood into the White House. Do you read? That is fact not speculation. He has palled around with the Muslim Brother hood since he took office, that to is fact and very well documented. He continues to send money to the Muslim countries even as we the people voice our objections. He talks about his Muslim heritage and people are so stupid that they buy the lie that he is a Christian. He is as Christian as Osama Bin Laden.

          • smilee

            Do you get all your lies from Michelle Bachmann or make them up yourself. Foreign Aid to Muslim Countries was going on long before Obama became president and Congress sets the amount and to whom it goes not the president. Do you feel good about telling all these lies. None of what you say is true and there is no way you document that their true.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Feel free to expose his lies, Sleepee. Oh, and provide some evidence please.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sleepee says — “They may have the better chance of winning the nomination than Christie but no chance of winning the presidency”.
            Pure conjecture, and judging by past history (what happened to Ron Paul), it would be just the opposite.
            Of the Republican candidates, Ron Paul offered the only real choice for voters against Obama. Romney (ObamaLite) offered only a continuance of Obama policies, albeit at a slower more calculated and palatable pace, to quell ignorant voters.

        • Robbie

          Mitt’s problem was that he didn’t know what on earth to actually stand for and, in fact, had so many different positions on the same issues that no one else knew what he stood for either. Some claim he wanted to run the country like a business which, of course, would have been a disaster. Simply can’t be done that way. A country of 300 million plus is NOT a business. When you’re running a country you can’t fire people. And when you’re running a country there are plenty of opposing views (like in Congress) that you MUST respect and pay heed to.

      • Robbie

        Could not agree more. Not only do the Republicans select funny candidates but their policies are out of step with the mainstream majority of the country.

  • Carlucci

    What would be so bad about shutting fedzilla down and defunding all of their bull**** “programs” permanently? Let’s face it, the dems and rinos could screw up a wet dream. They have proven time and time again that their “solutions” aren’t working and never have. I for one am very glad to see people like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz telling it like it is. The best thing that could happen with governments is to let the true conservatives (Libertarians) take over. All of those other idiots can take a slow boat to their own communist island and control and tax the crap out of each other.

    • Karolyn

      What would be so bad? But then I guess you’re ready for the chaos that would ensue.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Chaos from whom, from Dems/Progs/Leftists like yourself, from human predators, from human parasites? But I am being redundant as they are all one and the same.

        • Karolyn

          Chaos from PEOPLE. No LABELS, just PEOPLE.

          • http://socialsity.com/ LastGasp

            Could you please explain why you think there would be chaos.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Please describe the Chaos, Karolyn, that would ensue after we got our country back to Limited Government?

      • Betta

        What are you calling what we have now, Karolyn, a beach picnic?

        • Karolyn

          What we have now is a long way from chaos.

          • WTS/JAY

            I know; first madness, then chaos!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            It depends on whether you’re on the receiving end of the Theft, or the victim end of it, Karolyn.
            Your empathy only seems to lie with those who want somebody else’s money. What about those who are suffering and not demanding a ride on other peoples’ shoulders?

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      “fedzilla”. I like that, Carlucci. It’s a fitting description.

  • Alan

    Christie showed a lot of promise in the early part of being governer in Jersey, but blew it with his unabahed Obama butt kissing after the hurricane. We should be glad that he showed his true colors before being elected to higher office. As far as the majority of republican lawmakers go, they are the party of surrender or go along to get along. Both parties in congress just work to cover each others butts
    for re-election.

    • Karolyn

      And he should have rebuffed the President when he visited NJ after the terrible disaster? He should not have even said “thank you.” I don’t consider that butt-kissing. And I am not a fan of Christie.

      • Alan

        That is not at all what I meant, of course he should have toured the devastation with him to justify the need for aid, and a thank you would be the polite thing to do. He went overboard with praise for someone giving what is expected by any state in disaster.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          The need for aid is one thing, but forcing people to provide charity to others was not the intended role of the Federal Government when our Founders wrote the Constitution.
          If the Government did nothing other than to provide a focal point for voluntary donors, I would have no problem with it. If people want to insure themselves against disasters they should — with private sector insurance. But nobody, no matter how misfortunate, has a right to ride on other peoples’ unwilling shoulders.

          • Alan

            Point well taken.

          • Robbie

            Do you like the idea of municipal fire departments or should that be private as well. [You might not know this but historically fire fighting WAS done by private companies but there were obvious problems with that. But you must object to paying money to help put out a fire that is not in YOUR house.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I will take whatever cutbacks in Government spending I can get, because Government is typically not cost effective, and because Government takes everybody’s money whether they actually want that service or not. How noble of the people who do want that service to saddle those who don’t with the bill.
            Yes, Robbie, the obvious problems were that Leaders like more Power, and some people like to force others to pay for services only they want or use.
            Generally speaking, the house that is on fire is as good as gone, they can only prevent the fire from spreading to other homes. If those other homes subscribed to a Private Fire Service, they would be covered (as much or more than Government services could cover them for the same price).
            When Private Companies fail us, they can lose customers, and suffer civil lawsuits. When Government fails us, we can vote them out of office 2 or 4 or 6 years later. Big Whoop.

          • Robbie

            Economies of scale are usually more cost effective and this would be especially true of fire fighting services. Imagine you’re in row housing and everyone has to get private services – from different carriers – but a few decide not to get any and one of THEIR places catches fire. What’s supposed to happen then. Probably you’ll want to FORCE those noncovered folks to get coverage. (The horror of being forced). Then, of course you’ve got 5 or more fire departments taking up space. That’s how it was historically – a mess. One large municipal fire department just makes so much sense. You needn’t have 5 times the specialized equipment etc. etc. It’s just so sensible for city government to handle such a task. Here in Canada we look at hospitals/doctors/nurses in the same way. We all contribute (taxes) to pay for medical services and when you need it its their to serve you. No need up here to hand over some 30% of health care dollars to private insurance company shareholders. We put it all in to actual care. No one goes bankrupt up here when they get sick or injured or need to have a baby.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Any “economies of scale” would be negated by the fact that they don’t have to please their customers and they have nothing to lose if they fail in their task. But the only way to know for sure is to allow Free Markets and see how they perform in relation to UnFree Markets. But you Liberal Progressives will fight that tooth and nail, won’t you Robbie, because you’re afraid you might be (will be) made to look like fools.

            Robbie says — “Imagine you’re in row housing and everyone has to get private services – from different carriers – but a few decide not to get any and one of THEIR places catches fire”.
            The Private fire-fighting services would of course fight the fire at the source to prevent its spread. And the owner of the source unit (I’m assuming you’re not talking about rentals) where the fire started would be out thousands of dollars. And he/she would be liable for the damage to the adjacent units.
            Murray Rothbard addresses those concerns quite thoroughly here in Chapter 10 — THE PUBLIC SECTOR, GOVERNMENT IN BUSINESS:
            http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/For%20a%20New%20Liberty%20The%20Libertarian%20Manifesto.pdf

            Robbie says — “Then, of course you’ve got 5 or more fire departments taking up space”.
            Pure conjecture, Robbie. The Marketplace would decide how many firefighting units could be supported by the customer base. I find it interesting that you Liberal Progressives will gnash your teeth about Monopolies, and then turn around to willingly grant such to a body of people (Government) who aren’t accountable for their mistakes and don’t need to please their consumers.

            Robbie says — “We all contribute (taxes) to pay for medical services and when you need it its their to serve you”.
            Sure, Robbie, whatever you say:
            http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/waiting-your-turn-2012.pdf

            Robbie says — “No need up here to hand over some 30% of health care dollars to private insurance company shareholders”.
            There’s no need to do that with Free Markets either Robbie. In fact in Free Markets many people, like myself, choose to forgo insurance and cut out the middleman. With Government Healthcare, you get the middleman also, but he is a Government agent who has nothing to lose if his performance sucks.
            If Healthcare costs are lower in Canada than in the US (I doubt it) the people are paying for those cheaper services with the cost to their health (see above linked article). But who really knows how much Canadian Healthcare is costing Canada? When Government runs a business the overall costs to the citizens are anything BUT Transparent.
            Also, the high healthcare costs in the US are very much due to Government interference in the Medical field. See here:
            http://mises.org/daily/5066

          • Robbie

            When Mitt Romney was in Israel raising election funds he admitted that Israel has far superior medical care that the U.S. – better outcomes by far and less expensive. Israel has socialized medicine! Coming from Romney that was quite an observation. And Israel even covers dental care for children so it is even more socialistic than Canada.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Robbie, please tell me that was just you joking.
            Mitt Romney, the Father of Romneycare? And you think he’d be unbiased? Good Grief, if you aren’t joking, you are hopeless.
            http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa-613.pdf
            Has it ever occurred to you, Robbie, that the Leaders benefit from Government Growth, so of course they are going to promote it any way they can?

          • Robbie

            During the election Romney was against socialized medicine so hearing him praise Israel’s socialistic system during that time was a surprise. Of course he was right in saying that Israel’s medical care is superior to anywhere and less expensive too but if he had been more astute he’d have kept quite about it. Mind you poor old Mitt changed his ideas faster than a revolving door during rush hour. And to think he was the best of that lot. Probably he didn’t even know that Israel had universal health care. He was always a bit short on actual knowledge.

          • John

            Ovomitcare is anything but less expensive. The initial cost is going to increase a minimum of $2,500. for a family of four and that was before they ran into a lot of other cost. the cost to date is over $4,000 per family per year. That is $4,000 more than they are paying now. Government always runs up the cost and the inefficiency.

          • Robbie

            Who exactly is charging these amounts???? Is it private insurance or what?

          • John

            You are 100% correct Dave. There is much more though. Government has written laws that won’t let you get treatment that is far better and safer than Chemo and Radiation. Laws that say you must get those to treat cancer. Neither of those treatments work. They have never worked except 3% of the time. Alternative medicine cancer cures work 90% of the time. But the FDA tries to block most of those. That’s government at work for you.

          • John

            Robbie all governments are super inefficient period. They always have been. They always will be. With your money they are extremely wasteful. Always. Those are facts of government. Government is always the worst way to accomplish anything.

  • kenhowes

    Somehow they all think that taking a pot shot at another possible Republican candidate will give them a leg up. All they do is first destroy their own possibility of getting the nomination; then they either destroy the other guy’s chance of the nomination, or, if the guy survives the hit to get the nomination, then the hit comes back in the general election. Mitt Romney heard nothing last fall BUT the attacks previously made on him by Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum. Of course, the other side falls into that, too. Mike Dukakis’ undoing in 1988 was in large part Al Gore’s work; it was Gore’s campaign that found Willie Horton.
    The other thing Republicans have to learn is that they must assume in EVERY campaign stop that there is a Democrat present with a recording device. When Romney made that incredibly stupid statement about 47% of the people to a room full of fat cats, one of the fat cats was none other than the son of Jimmy Carter, and that wasn’t the first time Romney had said something unwise to a room full of rich people.

    • Robbie

      Mitt’s problem was not that he said stupid things while folks were listening. His problem was that he believed those stupid things. The best was when he was raising cash in Israel and he went on and on about how fantastic the Israeli health care system was – excellent outcomes and less expensive than the U.S. system. Then someone told him that Israel has SOCIALIZED medical care! OOOPS.

  • Sam Adams

    At least Christie is telling the truth. Libertarians are dangerous to the status quo, both to dems and rep who ALL want Bigger government reach. Both dems and rep want obama-care and amnesty, they may talk a good game, but its a lie.

    • Betta

      Christie is dangerous as well just by virtue of the fact that he thinks America is a democratic society. America is a Constitutional Republic.
      A democratic society is mob rule, which is what we currently have only because we let criminal mobs rule this country instead of kicking them to the curb really hard enough so that their ancestors feel it.

      • LINDITA

        AS PEOPLE, CHRISTIE IS DANGEROUS DUE TO, HE HAS A ROOT IN PALESTINIAN TRIBE GREEK. ALWAYS, TRIBE GREEK IN CONSPIRACY IS LOOKING FOR INDEPENDENCE IN THE COUNTRY HOST. LA,LA,LA….

  • TIME

    Dear People,
    This would be the very same guy that just signed into NJ state law, as in 8/9/13 the same mindless rhetoric that the Talmudic Marxist in the senate want to do to the 2nd Amendment.
    So you tell me, is Christy really a good guy?
    A question for you that wanted him to run for your CEO in 2012, now really is this what you want? A Marxist RINO?
    You all need to stop the knee jerking when these alleged hero’s step forth.
    Do some digging into them, look at who they really are.
    In a TIME when so much information is available to the public, to remain ignorant is a Choice. What will YOU do?
    Peace and Love

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    The problem is that the establishment Republicans really like Big Government. They posture as liking Small Government, but their actions betray their words. Read this article written by Murray Rothbard in the 1990s to see what I’m saying:
    http://mises.org/econsense/ch21.asp

    • RevNowWhileWeCan

      Exactly Dave! Christie and Rand are intentional distractions. They’re puppets placed by the Duopoly to give the appearance of diversity. We know better. I’ve been saying this for years now. Don’t be distracted with national issues because as long as the Duopoly is in power, nothing will change. Install third parties locally. That is their biggest threat. Do that, then we can start to realize change on a national level. #3rdpartyLOCALLY

  • William

    Being an Ex New Jerseyite this fat pig jerkoff eiiminated 6000 possible jobs in 1 fell swoop and sent the money which was alloted to the New Transit Tunnel project off shore and left the tax payers in NJ holding the interest tab ! He is a lazy, flip flopping Obama butt kisser and only speaks when he is in between mouthfuls of Black Angus, when hrd not choking on it, while everyone else eats rice ! We all thought that nothing could possibly be worse than Corzine until this idiot took the helm ! That was my que to exit the now Gestapo / Police State that resides there now !

  • Rocketman

    Hey Christie and King, it’s people like you that are destroying the Republican Party. Do you think that Romney just got some bad breaks when he lost the election? He was too much a neo-con and the people that would normally vote Republican sat out the election because they were sick and tired of voting either Democrat or Democrat lite. Do everyone a favor and just change your party over to Democrat. You know you want to.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      This isn’t a recent development. The Republicans have been fooling their Followers for a long time:
      http://mises.org/econsense/ch21.asp

    • modern13

      Your comment about sitting out the election was right on. In my county the RNC mustered NO—0— effort for Romney. The GOP must dump all insiders at the local, county, and state levels who work only for their jobs.

  • James Zablocki

    Fat boy is doing exactly what he has been told to do! His Master(s) told him to create a rift in the party, to create diversionary infighting, so he is. For those morons in the cheap seats, I’ll say it ONE MORE TIME, so listen up!! There is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between the majority of Republicans and Democrats! NONE.There may be a slight difference in the words that spew forth from their lips, that is where the differences end. They are playing to a script, that is all! Once you realize this, their lying becomes so obvious as to border the ridiculous!!! Quit being chumps and wake the hell up.

    • DaRueStir

      It is time to uncoil the grip and cast off the two headed snake (DNC/RNC) that is strangling the American people.

      Or you can continue to look into their swirling eyes for salvation as they sing…
      “trust in me just in me trust in me, trust in me just in me trust in me”.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      For Individual Liberty, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, Limited Government, and the PEACE that follows — Vote Libertarian!
      http://www.lp.org/platform

      • James Zablocki

        Already there Brother. Staunch supporter and about 10 times smarter than any suckerbob (hey, let us not forget the bobettes here now, they want their sucker recognition as well) that actually believes there is a difference ‘tween the Repubes and Dumbocrats! I am simply amazed that at this stage of our countries demise, that there are actually people still stupid enough to not see things for what they actually are!! For those of you imprisoned by your CIVIL SERVANT paycheck, remember this: when things finally implode under this unrelenting pressure, YOU too will be destroyed as well, you nitwit(s). I’d think long and hard about waking up quick and fast!!! Do you really want to live in a world where, because your masters destroyed everything, two thirds of the population will be out to get everything you have, by ANY MEANS NECESSARY!! Wouldn’t want to be THAT GUY (or girl)! And what of your children? Do you want them growing up in the hostile world that we’ll have become? Think about it, it’s worth researching. Does anybody see this lying PIG Obammer for anything other than what he really is? That goes for Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush Sr, Carter, Nixon, etc… They have all dutifully played their roles as well. Obammer is just the one who gets to spike the ball. WAKE UP AMERICA, and spread the word!!!

      • Robbie

        Hilary or Joe will be your next president.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          There’s no denying the vast quantity of brainwashed voters in our country. Whoever gets elected will likely toe the Big Government line.

          • Robbie

            You don’t seem to have much confidence in or respect for the American democratic system. And you don’t seem to actually like terribly many of your fellow citizens. It’s like you think everyone should be just like you.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            We don’t have a Democracy, Robbie, we have a Republic. Or at least we did have, until Advantage-Seeking Leaders did what they do best.
            In a Republic, the minority is protected from the whims of the majority.

            Robbie says — “And you don’t seem to actually like terribly many of your fellow citizens”.
            That is certainly true for Liberal Progressives who steal their neighbors’ money and property using Big Government as their proxy thieves.
            But if you are claiming that you do like your fellow citizens, Robbie, you certainly have a funny way of showing it by using Big Government to take their money and Force your choices on them.

            Robbie says — “It’s like you think everyone should be just like you”.
            I can only wish, Robbie, but unlike you, I would never dream of Forcing my way on other people through Big Government.

          • Robbie

            You might be happier in a much smaller and less complicated country – some place where the economy is based on simple farming and/or sheep herding or something like that.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You might be happier butting out of our business, Robbie. But both of those statements are non sequiturs.

          • Robbie

            I believe this forum promotes the free exchange of ideas. Of course you are at liberty to skip over my comments. That would be your loss, of course, but you do have that option. Come to think of it you seem to respond to me quite a bit.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No Robbie, I wouldn’t be losing anything by not reading your comments. I respond only to keep people like you from poisoning young ignorant minds with your feel-good failed Liberalism.
            We all wish the world was Tulips and Sugar Cones, but some of us are wise enough to discern fact from fantasy.

          • Robbie

            Oh you are clearly a great defender of truth, liberty, and the American way. I look forward to more exchanges with you. I do have to compliment you on one thing which is that you write well and do not stoop to rude language which is fairly common on this site. Cheers, R

          • John

            Robbie you replied to my post about Romney. This article was about Chistie. As I said before he is a Rino, nothing else. Detroit Robbie, that is what the country will look like if the demons get a majority again. We are talking about the party of evil. The democratic party. Evil, evil, evil. That is all they have ever been, from the founding of our country, up to and including today. Liars, thieves, slavers. Can you think of anything more evil that that?

          • Robbie

            Yes: they are blood sucking creatures from the depths of hell. They ooze puss from every crevice in their decrepid bodies and they vomit at the truth. They also have really bad dental work and on a bad hair day they give break dancing displays in front of city hall.

          • me

            Owebunhole fooled em twice. the 47% made up a whole bunch of them.

        • $36364326

          barry boy will be impeached over Benghazi after the mid term elections when the dems win everything and joe will take the helm with the jesuit pope on his coat tail giving ALL the orders.

          AMERIKA NEEDS TO KNOW WHO THE JESUITS ARE! STUDY UP ON THIS TYRANNICAL ORGANIZATION, THEY ARE THE REASON THE USA HAS A CONSTITUTION.

  • $36364326

    How can anybody compare cristi to Rand Paul? Cristi is bought and paid for by money mongers and he will make big splashes when he talks because of the sheeples obsession with the mainstream megaliars. The trouble is, and I mean trouble, the liars spend big bucks on psycho babble that makes their lies more appetizing for those people who actually listen to them. Like Hitler says, if you tell a lie enough times eventually it will be believed.

    • me

      We all know Owebunhole is bought off too. with the likes of Warren Buffet and george soros behind him it’s almost living proof.

  • ThomasThePaine

    Lardo lost all credibility: He had a chance to save America, just by having Obozo for dinner. . . Instead, he blew him. . . .

  • Patriot66

    As far as I’m concerned, a party affiliation means nothing anymore. Politicians belong to whatever party the seat they are going after has the best chance of obtaining. The only way to know a politician is by their track record on what they voted for. Many Republicans are not as conservative as the party once was. Christy is nothing more than a status quo socialist at best. The thought of Obama banging his fat ass disgusted
    me, but is obviously what happened. Unfortunately, most positions in congress need to be replaced by new candidates who have no track record.

    • CommonSense4America

      Also look at Christys stance on the second amendment. Not good!!

  • me

    The wacko birds need to enlarge their ranks. It will be our only chance to get the country back. Hopefully we’ll get a bunch more in the next two major elections. They aren’ t all talk like President Owebunhole. There seems to be a lot of the Republicans getting fast talked and fooled.Tell em what they wanna hear Owebunhole. thats how you got where you are at.

  • CommonSense4America

    The GOP thinks that WE are destroying the party? WE don’t work FOR the party,,,they work for US!!! This is why, IMHO, we need a third party. I will NEVER again vote for the lessor of two evils. I will vote for the person that represents MY views.

  • LINDITA

    AS PEOPLE, WE HEARD “ChipOair” TRAVEL COMPANY HAS OBAMA OWNER SINCE 4-5 YEARS AGO. LA,LA,LA……

  • LINDITA

    AS PEOPLE, I CAME IN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TO ENJOY FREEDOM BASE ON CAPITALISM SYSTEM. I DIDN’T CAME IN AMERICA TO HEAR JIGGERY-POKERY FROM FASCISTS TRIBE GREEK? WE LOST 50YEARS UNDER DICTATOR SAME ROOT WITH A HITLER. PREDATORY DISHONEST TRIBE GREEK, FEELING SHAME TELLING THE ORIGIN IN FRONT OF OTHER PEOPLE AND FEELING PROUD IN SECRET WITH EACH-OTHER. SHAME ON YOU!