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Playing It Straight

November 27, 2012 by  

Playing It Straight
PHOTOS.COM

They complain endlessly about what they perceive as a conservative bias among certain outlets. They call FOX News “faux news.” They whine about Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck in terms that generally involve the sort of language that used to earn me dinner at the Bar of Soap Saloon. Recently, their beloved Democratic Party super-donor Bill Maher even invited Hannity to commit suicide. Liberals don’t just hate conservatives; they loathe them with every twitching, twisted fiber of their beings.

Of course, liberals are defined by their white-hot hate. Their whole movement is based on pitting Americans against each other. The poor should hate the rich. The weak should hate the strong. The black should hate the white. And opinions that differ from their own are not merely incorrect, they’re deplorable, racist and even criminal. But their opinions are different. Indeed, a perusal of left-wing hate speech sites like Dailykos and media outlets like Current TV reveals that liberals don’t consider their opinions to be opinions at all. Instead, there are opinions, and then there are Democratic talking points; and the latter are actually facts.

Nowhere can the American left’s spectacular self-overestimation be better observed than the NBC Universal brand of news coverage. The outlet’s varsity brand, NBC News, has spiraled into insignificance with an only occasionally lifelike Brian Williams as the lead talking hairdo and the simpering twerp David Gregory transforming the once-respected “Meet the Press” into a softball-pitching machine for President Barack Obama and his accomplices. But the decline and fall of NBC News pales in comparison to the positively Gibbonesque free fall of the second teamers on MSNBC (aka the Democrat Channel).

Nonetheless, while Williams, Gregory and even Kathie Lee Gifford and Hoda Kotb actually consider themselves real bastions of journalism (with the latter pair actually the closest to fitting the description), they’re predictably defensive when anyone points to their shameless cheerleading-as-reportage. Last week, Democrat Channel President Phil Griffin — whose network tilted its coverage of the election so far to port that it nearly capsized (not one critical story about Obama in the final days before the election and not one positive story about Romney during the same time frame) — actually said the following out loud: “This channel has never been the voice of Obama.”

In a sense, he’s right. Although given how often Obama’s voice says contradictory things, it must be a challenging job to stick with; just ask Chris Matthews. MSNBC is a mere echo of the voice of Obama. A network that willingly pays parasites like Al Sharpton, idiots like Rachel Maddow, violent racists like Larry O’Donnell and plain old lunatics like Matthews just can’t reach high enough to make the travel squad. But Griffin’s remark is especially telling, offering one of those teachable moments of which their beloved Obama is so fond. There is no rational argument for the existence of an unbiased corporate media. But liberals, who never stop roaring their displeasure with the rightward lean of outlets that readily identify themselves as such, not only don’t admit to their own slant, they evidently can’t.

I suppose it’s possible that the hatred and hypocrisy that define American liberalism cloud their thinking so much that the left isn’t aware of its own extreme bent. It’s also possible that liberals have a clear sense of their own biases but consider lying about them a necessity — a spooky parallel to Obama’s own behavior.

When I write, I share with you my opinion. I don’t present myself as a reporter; Personal Liberty Digest™ offers straight news and identifies it as such. The same could be said by my colleagues here, right up to Bob Livingston himself. I don’t prevaricate about my purpose; nor am I interested in doing so. I like my job, and I am proud to have it. But Griffin’s minions at the Democrat Channel never stop trying to present themselves as journalists. The same can be said for The New York Times, The Washington Post and most any other mainstream outfits that claim to offer “the news.”

Hey, if they can keep their bills paid by shilling shamelessly for Obama and the Democrats, I say more power to them. They’re welcome to sacrifice their dignity in whatever way they see fit. I’m just suggesting they try to emulate, ahem, me a bit more and be honest about who they are.

–Ben Crystal

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • Jeremy Leochner

    Merriam Websters defines liberalism as: 1
    : the quality or state of being liberal
    2
    a often capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty
    and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity
    b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard
    c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties; specifically : such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (as those involving race, gender, or class)
    d capitalized : the principles and policies of a Liberal party

    That definition is fairly close to my beliefs. I am and call myself a liberal. However I have friends who are conservative and libertarian. I have some conservative and even some libertarian ideals. My father is a conservative republican and I look up to him and learn from him. We may disagree with each other but I respect him. So I am a liberal who does not hate conservatives or libertarians. So it appears that liberals or rather not all liberals are “defined by their white-hot hate”. I define myself more by my actions then by hate. I think it is important to respect despite disagreement. There are certain acts and arguments which I take great exception to and there are certainly people in this world who I hate. However I try my best to be respectful and do my best to treat as I would wish to be treated. I often disagree and insult Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. But that has more to do with what I perceive as the lack of logic and the strong contradictions in their argument. Regardless of my political leanings I find it hard not to poke a little fun at someone who says that The Preamble to the Constitution contains the self evident truth that we are endowed by our creator with the rights to life, liberty, freedom and the pursuit of happiness despite the fact that life, liberty freedom and the pursuit of happiness is not in the Preamble to the Constitution, its in the declaration of independence and it does not contain the word freedom. Whatever your political leanings when your wrong your wrong. The problem is both Mr. Limbaugh and Mr. Hannity and Mr. Beck have said numerous things like that whilst continuing to claim to be defending the constitution. I apologize for insulting them but I feel their actions warrant criticism if not a little fun poking.

    Now I will agree that Mr. Maher says very hateful things about conservatives. I am with Mr. Crystal on that. However on the subject of liberals “pitting Americans against each other.” I will make two points.

    1: Mr. Crystal, your entire article is about how liberals are so hateful and say such insulting and hateful things about conservatives and you accuse liberals of actively trying to divide America in fact you say that “Their whole movement is based on pitting Americans against each other”. With respect I believe that casting a vast group of Americans as hateful monsters is just as much a pitting of Americans against each other as anything said by Mr. Mahar or any liberal politician or pundit.

    2: Hateful vitriol is not confined to liberals or the left by any means. In fact just watch Mr. Limbaugh or Mr. Hannity or Mr. Beck and you will numerous insults hurled at those they disagree with. You constantly hear them say liberals and progressives in very generalizing terms and you often hear liberals compared to Nazi and Communists and all other manner of vile names. I am not saying liberals do not express hate. What I am saying is hate knows no partisan alliance. As evidence I can offer this. It is a clip from Jon Stewarts and Stephen Colberts Rally to Restore Sanity/Fear. Whatever you think of either of these men I feel this clip demonstrates that the hateful rhetoric comes from not one side but both:

    http://youtu.be/QQV-Yc4WxKg

    If the link does not work just go on to youtube and type in Rally to Restore Sanity Unleash the Media. The video you are looking for is the one titled Rally to Restore Sanity Stephen Colbert-Whats Wrong With America.

    • Vicki

      Jeremy Leochner writes:
      “2 b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard.”

      Prima facie evidence that modern big government progressives that call themselves liberal, aren’t.

      But that is only the economic viewpoint. The political viewpoint rather clearly describes the big government types who feel that a small elite group of intellectuals can somehow fix all the problems that come from people using the force of big government (that would be the self same small elite group).

      • eddie47d

        More hypocricy and left/right diatribe. It could be just as easily said that Conservatives hate Liberals,Democrats,Progressives with each and every breath. They will do everything in their power to extinguish them as is attested to by the weekly barrage of comments we hear. Few if any are in the least very polite and that is putting it mildly. Conservatives don’t live on top of a pedestal anymore than Liberals do yet each side feels so special about themselves.

      • Flashy

        Eddie…forget trying to enlighten the hard core extremists. All one can do is marginalize them and show them to the world for what they are. Subsistence living on the TP Trilogy and American Taliban Creed…hate, fear, ignorance.

        one has to laugh at Crystal’s ending line ” I’m just suggesting they try to emulate, ahem, me a bit more and be honest about who they are.” So his suggestion is for journalists to be babbling buffoons spouting rantings of nothingness?

        Here’s an experiment for you…one which i have performed over the past few months and find the results interesting. Ask for solutions to the whines and rants. Try it! I believe you will find no response other than radical solutions unworkable in today’s world and solutions advocating no0thing short of the destruction of this Nation. Vigilant and 45 Caliber…i’ll sit up and read with interest and thought what they write. I may not agree with the points being made or the suggestions proffered, but they certainly are not radicalized soundbites and for the most part are worthy to take in and think about.

        Others? Well…if you believe that the links posted from Mises are actually read by a certain poster, nawwww…nevermind…that is more farfetched than the FEMA camps and the UN conspiracy to take all guns and asset international sovereignty over this nation.

        Another favorite is the “flavor of the month” catch phrase. “Left/Right paradigm” is like strawberry ice cream in constant use to somehow legitimize a response which has no substance. Crony Capitalism is a good one..which means, what i wrote before doesn’t matter. Or the all time favorite is when they warn about “God’ not liking what ‘he” sees and we’re all doomed to the firey pit of hell (which i guess is somewhere which one best have sunblock ?)

        Watch…I’ll bet a fair amount of money. DaveH or one of the others will denigrate with post after post all the while with a straight face responding to a well thought out opinion by accusing a Moderate or progressive of denigration …

        Or stats will be tossed out, asking the reader to suspend reality and take them for some twisted meaning which has no bearing on real life history (DaveH’s “jobs created” stats are always good for a laugh as well as accusing the Democrats instead of the Bush debacle for our economic mess we’ve suffered through the past four plus years)

        And flat out guaranteed to really get a rise? When someone refers to the “Founding fathers”…ask for specifics..as in..which one? There were quite literally hundreds, all holding differing viewpoints. And the best of the best…when they spout nonsense, ask them to show a time when what they spouted has worked. LOL …

        Ah well….it is entertainment

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Eddie47d, your O won the election so why are you on this site? You claim that the people of your mindset are the most powerful in this country and there is nothing that Conservatives or Libertarians can do to change the direction of this country. Yet you are here regularly along with others of your kind all worried and frustrated and fearful about O.
        We don’t waste our lives hating Dems/Progs/Leftists, we actually have things to do and places to go and a God of Heaven to worship and praise in spite of the election of O.

      • eddie47d

        Everything you said is just the opposite of reality which means you are really out of touch with what is going on Nadzieja! I never said anything that you mentioned especially about “my side” “being more powerful” . Come back when you aren’t so delusional!

      • Karolyn

        Ndzieja – I don’t think I ever saw eddie claim what you say he has. There you go again; attributing things you’ve seen somebody say to anyone who might have some of the same political ideology.

      • Steve E

        You are right eddie. I am a conservative and I hate Liberals,Democrats,Progressives with each and every breath, and so do many true conservatives. Myself and many other conservative do not have any Liberal,Democrat,Progressive friends. Many business owners (which are conservatives) that I have talked to are going to lay off only the Liberal,Democrat,Progressive as the economy get worse (and it will). The list goes on and on as to what the Conservatives want to do to punish the Liberal,Democrat,Progressive. So yes, Conservatives hate also. But for good reason.

      • Karolyn

        There is no good reason for hate – especially for people who have different opinions.

      • Cherio

        So Eddie start looking into Ron Paul, John Birch, Mises, Thomas Sowell, Ayn Rand… Etc. Conservative is a term and an idea created by progressives, it is so we could be lumped into a way of thinking and we would stop thinking for ourselves, same as Liberal. Think outside the box….

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Vicki no one including myself believe that government can solve all our problems or that the force of big government can solve them. What and others do believe is that government can help solve our problems and that government can be a useful force against fraud and neglect. It cans serve as a check against corporate and state power as well as providing municipal services and a social safety net. No one is saying give all power to government. Their just saying do not get rid of government.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Totalitarian Socialists is what the Progressives should be called. Certainly not Liberal. They chose to call themselves Liberal. I am a Liberal Conservative. Not a contradiction at all. I believe the over 2000 years of practiced moral values are true and should be followed to the T. I am Liberal when it comes to ECONOMIC freedom not moral depravity.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Capitalist. I agree with you on economic freedom. I am a Social Democrat and I consider myself a liberal. Liberalism and Progressivism have nothing to do with controlling people or the economy. I return to merriam websters which defines progressivism as : : the principles, beliefs, or practices of progressives

        2
        capitalized : the political and economic doctrines advocated by the Progressives
        3
        : the theories of progressive education
        — pro·gres·siv·ist noun or adjective
        — pro·gres·siv·is·tic adjective

        And it defines progressive as: 1
        a : of, relating to, or characterized by progress
        b : making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities
        c : of, relating to, or constituting an educational theory marked by emphasis on the individual child, informality of classroom procedure, and encouragement of self-expression
        2
        : of, relating to, or characterized by progression
        3
        : moving forward or onward : advancing
        4
        a : increasing in extent or severity
        b : increasing in rate as the base increases

        5
        often capitalized : of or relating to political Progressives
        6
        : of, relating to, or constituting a verb form that expresses action or state in progress at the time of speaking or a time spoken of
        7
        : of, relating to, or being a multifocal lens with a gradual transition between focal lengths
        8
        : or, relating to, or using a method of video scanning (as for television or a computer monitor) in which the horizontal lines of each frame are drawn successively from top to bottom — compare interlaced
        — pro·gres·sive·ly adverb
        — pro·gres·sive·ness noun

      • Kate8

        Great article. Seems to have struck a chord with the resident prog trolls, too. Fun to watch them squirm.

        Jeremy – I find your definition amusing, as if it had anything to do with anything. Liberals love to take words, “labels”, which have a certain appeal while using them to accomplish the opposite while people aren’t looking. Tsk tsk.

        Guess what, people? The PC gig is over. And as far as “hate”, it serves no useful purpose. There is a saying that “what we resist, persists”. Better to just ignore them and let them die a slow death while we, ourselves, focus on better things.

        BTW, here is more on how these trolls are sent forth by the WH to do exactly what they do:

        http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/leftist-trolls-in-ongoing-war-with-wnd/

        They keep coming back because they perceive that their presence works. And it seems to, indeed. We bite every time, which is exactly the reaction they are after. As many of us have stated over and over…far better to ignore them so they’ll go away. At the very least, they’ll end up disappointed, though they might keep trying just to collect their paycheck.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I suppose you are right Kate. I was just pointing out the more academic definition of liberalism and progressivism. I was trying to make the point that I believe Mr. Crystal and others are using labels themselves in such a way as to delegitimize those they disagree with. I was merely using those labels as a way of showing that its not all black and white and members of a particular label do not all think and act alike.

      • Mike in MI

        Karolyn -
        “…No good reason for hate…” you say.
        Well, I suggest you go to the northeast coastline from Massachusetts to Delaware and solicit opinions of people who until recently had homes, property, businesses, families and livelihoods there. People who, immediately upon the Conman-in-Chief’s blow through following Sandy’s blow through, were promised all the help our government could send them to rebuild their former lives.
        Ask them if they’ve been sent the help they need from government…at any of government’s levels. Where are they sleeping? Where are they spending the winter? Do they feel safe? How are they subsisting? Did they have any savings before the storm, or had the last four years of government redistributing redistribute anything their way?

        Would they have been able to help themselves in the years before Obama’s Liberal policies? Would their municipalities have had adequate funding? Are their local governments able to function now? What will happen if it is a hard, stormy winter?

        Then ask them, “Are YOU, now, happy that the policies of the last four years are being brought to fruition? With all the help government spread everywhere else, who’s ABLE to help you now? Don’t you just really feel wonderful about all our government’s love and compassion?”

      • Robert Smith

        The site that Kate8 suggested about trolls suggests: “Particularly offensive is the proclivity of trolls to use obscene or blasphemous language mixed with personal invective.”

        Obscene is removed from here. Blasphemous language! Well shucks, what’s untrue about a bunch of cannibals (remember that transubstantiation thing) who kneel before a dead guy on a stick and then tell others how to run their lives?

        BTW, I use several IP addresses but I’m still me at all of them. In addition to that other family members use my desk computer at home. I’ll bet there is a chance that samurai and sook young come from the same computer. Are they the same person? Maybe, maybe not.

        BTW, it’s my understanding that this forum does have that information available and it has been used to accuse liberals of being multiple personalities. Can the information about the right wingers be forwarded to some of us who have concerns about the right wing?

        And another BTW: Roses are red, violets are blue, I’m Gemini and so am I. (Gemini are the twins for those who need a clue. It’s humor for most of us.)

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        Kate8 does it again: “though they might keep trying just to collect their paycheck.”

        And then there are those of us who believe in America and who aren’t willing to give it up to a bunch of right wing religious nuts.

        What better place to find out what the right is going to use for an alleged argument than to actually get in their figurative faces? And then when they come back with insults rather than a cogent argument I know I have something that will set them off because again they have been easily caught.

        Then when I get into real space I can take a right wing nut through them entering a room, starting to spout off, and then slamming the door behind them as they leave in a rage. I’ve won more than several beers by being able to get a nut job to flushtration (my name for their exit) in less than 5 minutes.

        Thank you for all of your help.

        Rob

      • Kate8

        Robert Smith – For sure, you are one of the more obnoxious of the troll brigade who come here.

        LOL. Dream on, Smith. You are but a legend in your own mind.

      • eddie47d

        We could say that about Uncle Ben the author, Kate 8. “LEGEND IN HIS OWN MIND” I’m still waiting for him to be “playing it straight”.

      • vicki

        Flashy says:
        “Eddie…forget trying to enlighten the hard core extremists. All one can do is marginalize them and show them to the world for what they are.”

        Prima Facie evidence of flashy’s plan and makes it abundantly clear why he has NO credibility on this board.

        What followed was Ad hominem attacks so I didn’t bother reading much after.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        Class warfare right out of the Hitler play book that obozo has been using all along. I illegal president who has stole another election, needs to go along with all his little hitler people and his little god allah.

      • Karolyn

        Mike – I still maintain there is no reason for hate.

      • Chester

        Vicki, what you have described, even if attributed to someone else, is NOT a description of a true liberal. Actually, it comes nearer fitting Mr. Crystal’s apparent views, that a small group of people who dislike all change know better what is good for this country than the much larger group who see a real need for change, all the way from the ground up, In Mr, Crystal’s ideal world, his side would get to decide who deserved medical treatment, whether they could afford it or not, and who would never be allowed medical treatment, regardless of the ability to ;pay. Expand that to fit all of life’s decisions, where what affects you personally is decided by the government, while what affects your pocket book is decided by the big money players who hate spending their own money.

      • Vicki

        Chester says:
        “Vicki, what you have described, even if attributed to someone else, is NOT a description of a true liberal.”

        A true liberal? what is that. The closest label I can find to a “true” liberal is libertarian. What I find to be a good measure is this:

        First principle: Your Creator gifted you with life and free will. How you use those gifts and how you honor those gifts in others is how you shall be judged.

        With the above in mind look at what the poster espouses with relation to what government should and should not do. You will quickly be able to find the “true” liberal. The ones that do not want to use the force of government to get their pet projects done. The ones who believe in consent of the governed. Those who actually understand that the Constitution is a set of LIMITS on what “the people” can get their government to do for them.

      • BR549

        Flashy posted, “…that is more farfetched than the FEMA camps and the UN conspiracy to take all guns and asset international sovereignty over this nation.”

        You are kidding, I hope. I mean, if you’re still thinking that the now 900+ FEMA detention camps are only in the minds of conspiracy theory obsessed tin-foil hat wearers, or that the Obama administration isn’t clandestinely pushing the UN’s small arms treaty to , ummm ….. I think you need some different sources, there, Bud.

        During a meeting with Sarah Brady and WH press secretary Jay Carney, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

        “I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.” …….. In other words, behind everyone’s back.

        Considering that since 1993, the murder rate has nearly halved and that roughly over half of those involved guns, the globalists are using any excuse they can to eviscerate the Constitution, even if it means lying about their intentions about gun “safety”.

      • Kate8

        BR549 – I just read this a.m. that Obama has, indeed, signed on to the UN Small Arms Treaty.

        I just tried to post a link telling how the complete gun ban would be accomplished, but I keep getting a “broken link” screen. Can’t imagine why.

        • BR549

          Kate wrote: “BR549 – I just read this a.m. that Obama has, indeed, signed on to the UN Small Arms Treaty.”

          While Article 6, Sec 2 does allow for the legislature to engage us in treaties, Sec 3 also states that the officials doing so must adhere to the Constitution. It’s that troublesome following “notwithstanding clause” in Sec. 2 that makes one ask the question of whether members of the legislature are breaking their oath to support the Constitution, when they engage in any treaty signing to the contrary.

          The problem isn’t guns, as you well know; the problem is portions of the population that have been intentionally allowed to become disenfranchised from society, with the do-good liberals chasing after all the guns to maintain their illusion of safety. What they fail to comprehend is the two century old battle by Britain (and now the globalists) to trash the uppity colonists. That battle is still with us, today.

      • Kate8

        BR549 – True, entering treaties is allowed for, but not if they are in conflict with our Constitution. They are never permitted to override the Supreme Law of the Land.

        And no laws nor treaties are allowed without the consent of the governed.

    • Cherio

      Problem is all the representatives of Liberalism rule the media, DC and Hollywood included, and can do and say as they wish. The loudmouths like Rosie, Moore, and a hundred others spray outlandish hate. Guess its a free country right?
      Now lots of Democrats are not Liberal at all they just fall victim to the scare tactics inflicted by the left. They are the old fashion kind not the Socialist instigators.
      But as I understand both play party to class and social warfare and divide and conquer.
      Neither party believes in the freedoms given to us by God. They want the power for themselves and they both take part in destroying our liberties.

      • eddie47d

        Last time I looked it has been Limbaugh and Beck who have ruled the media and set the agenda for extreme conversation. This time around most of the noise has come from the right not the left. Even Breitbart speaks from the grave so what more could you ask for?

      • Cherio

        Eddie to some degree I believe they are a part of the big picture. We are being persuaded to be in groups and all groups have a leader. I see Limbaugh as saying truths about the left but not exposing what harm the right does, he is a part of the divide and conquer mentality.

        A lot of what Beck has said is true he exposes both sides. I don’t know if I trust him 100% yet since his program spoke against Ron Paul. Is Beck a libertarian or not, not if he wants us to go to war on foreign soil.

        Conservative, Christian Right-wingers are being used just as much as the left. You have to look past the mark, these are the same fool ‘em then rule ‘em tactics used in Germany and Russia.
        The Fed wants to “regulate” the Internet, in other words control it, like China perhaps? Is the big out-of-control Fed trying to protect us or control our every action. You have to find out yourself…

      • Robert Smith

        Cherio says: “I don’t know if I trust him 100% yet since his program spoke against Ron Paul.”

        Gee, I wonder why…

        Actually, I know why. Beck, Rush, and a bunch of others are part of Clear Channel, owned by Bain capital owned by Romney.

        Check out: http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/bain-capital-owns-clear-channel-rush-limbaugh-sean-hannity-glenn-beck-michael-savage-etc

        Clear Channel is among the largest of communications companies. So much for the lie of “left wing media.” It’s mostly big business corporations owned by the 1%.

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        When something is such astne cold truth the right wing has zero response.

        Thank for confirming that. ROFL…

        Rob

      • BR549

        Cherio wrote: “Is Beck a libertarian or not, …….?”

        Regardless of whether people agree with all of Alex Jones’ material, he has been onto these globalism issues for about 15 years; far longer than Beck or Limbaugh. Back when Bush was in office, Beck and Limbaugh were still waving the American flag and believing that 9/11 was about Muslims wanting to destroy this country. Back then, if you weren’t a system supporting flag waver and willing to cave in to the Patriot Act, they’d have put you on the next bus out of town. (Readers might want to view Dr. Paul Craig Roberts discussion on bin Laden’s timeline and interview that was carried by Middle Eastern and European news media but NOT here in the US.) BTW,Ron Paul has been a regular guest on Jones’ and others’ shows.

        Both Beck’s and Limbaugh’s numbers had been heading progressively south and the tide was turning against them. Now, in search of new material, they’ve had to latch on to Jones’ format to keep their ratings. (I say Jones, but the Drudge Report, Mike Savage, and others, as well, have been onto the globalists for years; so it isn’t just Jones material that Beck and Limbaugh have been plagiarizing to boost their numbers.) But it begs the question of whether ALL OF THEM are now in the tin-foil-hat category ……. or maybe their was actually some truth to what the others had been first saying.

        Now, not surprisingly, their numbers are improving because they are NOW on the right track, but they are still gingerly tiptoeing around the Bilderberg Group, the Trilateral Commission, the CFR, and the UN and all those ugly tentacles that are buried deep within our legislature and successive White House administrations over the last 24 years. Beck and Limbaugh each have their own twist on things and their own respective following, and that’s all well and good, but their new slant has been the meat of what Jones’ and others have been reporting for years from the conspiracy theory seats.

        Is Beck a Libertarian? Who knows? Back when it was expedient, he was a chameleon and was hanging on Bush like a cheap suit, even while he apparently idolized libertarian author W. Cleon Skousen, whose two author nephews, Mark and Joel, also have libertarian leanings. Joel Skousen, BTW, is also a regular with Alex Jones.

    • Frank Kahn

      I wont disagree with your statement that hate speech is from all sides in this. I would like to point out that the dictionary definition of Liberal is not used in the description of political Liberalism. Nobody, I know, would in their wildest imaginations give the dictionary defined attributes to political liberals. I think that the words liberal and conservative in the political arena have been twisted to fit a new definition that is almost diametrically opposed to those in the dictionary.

      You might be a dictionary defined Liberal and be a political conservative.

    • Bud Tugly

      Although I am hardly a liberal when Ben Crystal makes statements like: “Of course, liberals are defined by their white-hot hate.” he reduces himself to the level of those he condemns. There is a lot of hate leaking out of his writings. s long as jerks like him on both sides make their living on spewing hate our country will not climb out of the doldrums. There used to be cerebral, thoughtful and convincing voices for the conservative point of view. Now we have ravers like Crystal who are as guilty of distorting the truth as Rachel Maddow.

      Enough, Ben. Pull your head out of the dark place.

  • Tom Cook

    Hey Ben, I guess from your description I must be a liberal for my hatred for them is the white hot which you describe. The difference between me and the rest of the liberals is the fact that I try very hard to never be a hypocrite; and, you are exactly correct, all liberals are hypocrites: lovers of the loathesome, the hideous, the perverted, anything dark, dank, and stinking.

    • JUKEBOX

      I had a liberal Democrat come by my place this past Friday, and he was saying that Romney was a Mormon with six wives, and a lot of equally vitriolic stuff that he heard from Matthews, Schultz, etc. There was no discussion with him, because he had “ALLIGATOR SYNDROM”, all mouth and no ears.

      • Kate8

        It really is amazing how these liberals believe ANYTHING their skull-pluggers tell them, no matter how absurd it is on its face. And they’d never dream of fact-checking. If Maher or Maddow or Pelosi said it, it has to be true.

        That says volumes right there. They just aren’t smart. No common sense. Even the few who have a well-developed intellect operate from such a ridiculous paradigm that they make no sense whatsoever. And no soul.

      • Robert Smith

        Kate8 claims: ” If Maher or Maddow or Pelosi said it, it has to be true.”

        Really?????

        Can you show us ANY clips that the right can refute? There is a lot of footage from them, particularly Maher and Maddow, on the web.

        So, give us some examples or admit your lie.

        Rob

      • vicki

        My favorite example is Nancy Pelosi. Right before the 2010 elections she clearly said in plain English what she thought of the American people and the voters in her district sent her back AGAIN. Either they are not paying attention or they really are stupid or they just want her far away :).

        What she said btw is
        “WE have to pass this bill so YOU can find out what is in it”
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU

        It is hard to get more arrogant than that. Yet she was re-elected.

      • eddie47d

        I’ve mentioned that about you a few times Kate 8 where you believe BELIVEIT BEFOREITSNEWS thread. You are more gullible than any Liberal I have run across.

      • Flashy

        “It really is amazing how these liberals believe ANYTHING their skull-pluggers tell them, no matter how absurd it is on its face.” <—Kate8

        Wow…Kate, from you who believes the election was total fraud, that Americans realy do support the TP, and that there are FEMA camps, UN conspiracies, secret plans, etc etc etc ..this has got to be one of the most amazing statements I ever would think you would say …

      • Karolyn

        Kate – I don’t listen to any of those people.

      • Kate8

        Well, gosh, Flash…You are so behind the times.

        Turns out that ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE TRUE. They are out in the open now…haven’t your liberal news outlets reported on the FEMA camps taking in Sandy victims?

        Where the heck have you been? You prove yourself to be the arrogant, wholly uninformed, gullible fool.

        Just keep laughing, though. You will find out soon enough if you dare to crawl out of that basement.

      • Bud Tugly

        There are idiots on both sides. How many on the right believe that Obama is a Muslim, Kenyan, Nazi, Communist, that wants to impose Sharia Law in the US, put gun owners in prison camps, and take stuff from whites and give it to blacks?

        Lunacy knows no political affiliation.

        • BR549

          Bud wrote: “There are idiots on both sides. How many on the right believe that Obama is a Muslim, Kenyan, Nazi, Communist, that wants to impose Sharia Law in the US, put gun owners in prison camps, and take stuff from whites and give it to blacks?”

          I don’t associate with either of the parties any more. They’re both so corrupted and they both suck. Bush was a traitor; so is Obama; traitors supporting globalist bankers over their own country. One thing Obama is NOT, and that’s a Nazi. If anyone in this last election might have come close to that being a Nazi, because of Nazism’s fascist underpinnings, it would have been Romney once he had been given his final marching orders from Rockefeller. Either path, whether fascism or socialism, was certainly an acceptable way to attain the globalist objective.

      • Robert Smith

        From vicki: “My favorite example is Nancy Pelosi.”

        Really???? In a 10 second sound bite with ZERO context?

        Looks to me like you are afraid for us to see the rest of it.

        Remember, the right has taken things out of context before.

        Remember how they misquoted Obama when Obama was talking about the infrastructure of America?

        Looks to me like you are continuing the tradition of right wing lying.

        Rob

        • Frank Kahn

          Actually, Robert, it is possible that we are taking what he SAID instead of what he MEANT TO SAY in perfect context.

          I dont want to be the grammar police for Obama, but his sentence said “You did not build that.” His preceding sentence was talking about “if you have a successful business.”. Now that implies that the sentence “You did not build THAT.” is in reference to the successful business.

          He did, however several sentences before the quote in question, mention infrastructural ITEMS. So, if he was thinking he was referring to the bridges and roads, he should have used his statement before the one about successful business or at a minimum used the word THEM (You did not build THEM).

          So, we are not taking the quote out of context, he spoke out of context to the subject he was intending.

          If he wants to say “that is not what I meant”, that is fine but to say “you took it out of context” is either misdirection or a lie.

          I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, It is possible that he is not fully capable of handling a complex subject in verbal form. Maybe his thoughts were slow in coming to that phrase. Maybe it was an afterthought to the infrastructure statement. One that was too late to use effectively in that instance. But, it will be hard to convince many people that it was not exactly what he intended to say.

          • RichE

            Frank Kahn,
            Since we’re being literal, can an individual literally do it all by itself? I suppose one could rub two sticks together and build a fire, but who manufactured the axe? I believe Obama’s point was to remind conservatives that, “No man is an island”. You can’t and haven’t done it all by yourself. All of us drink from the wells our fathers dug.

          • Frank Kahn

            Being literal is not the point, it is grammar and he was wrong in his words.

            An axe has nothing to do with making a fire. And who made the axe is a question that is nonsense since it has no reference to which axe or at what time. Who invented the axe might be relevant to the discussion. And I can only assume that you are in some childish way trying to say that “if I use an axe to chop down a tree, I didnt do that”, which would be wrong.

            Obviously, no man is an island, we are a herd animal and require others of our species to live.

            But on a more sober note, HE DID NOT BUILD IT EITHER. AND GOVERNMENT DOES NOT BUILD ANYTHING, PEOPLE DO.

      • Vicki

        Robert Smith says:
        “From vicki: “My favorite example is Nancy Pelosi.”

        Really???? In a 10 second sound bite with ZERO context?

        Looks to me like you are afraid for us to see the rest of it.”

        You’re a big boy. Look it up. I even gave you a pointer.

      • Robert Smith

        From Kate8: “Vhaven’t your liberal news outlets reported on the FEMA camps taking in Sandy victims?”

        Maybe there aren’t any to “report” about. Can folks consider a LIE from the extreme reich?

        Rob

  • http://blackmarketliberty.com Chuck D

    I invite you to review Mondays show for a different take on the above, at: http://blackmarketliberty.com – web-based radio.

  • Dave67

    Liberals give what they get from Conservatives…. Conservatives have lied about liberals since Reagan, Conservatives are never responsible for anything, they blame liberals for their failures in fiscal responsibility, protecting this nation and lack of job creation.

    Fox and MSNBC are embarrassments to what we used to call “News” Now its Infotainment.

    The latest round is conservatives using the Libyan attack for naked political purposes.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/11/26/thomas_ricks_fox_news_anchor_jon_scott_ends_benghazi_interview_early_after.html

    Thomas Ricks called Fox out for their obvious political witch hunt that does the GOP’s bidding.

    But conservatives are the poor victims aren’t they?

    Here is their record since 1980

    Security:

    Over 200 Marines dead in Lebanon… Reagan’s response? Cut and run…
    3000 Americans dead on 9/11…. Bush’s response? Failure to get Bin Laden and to use the attack for a 3T waste of money/lives in Iraq

    Fiscal:

    Reagan: Tripled the US Deficit
    Bush 1: Doubled the US Deficit
    Bush 2: Doubled the US Deficit

    Economic:

    Deregulation of the banking, housing and wall street led to the crash of 2008 and conservatives played a strong hand in getting this deregulation in place.
    When conservatives cry about how much debt we have that they helped to create, their first thing that they trot out is to cut programs that help the poor and middle class…Defense can’t be touched, farm subsidies can’t also and the wealthy’s tax rates most certainly go up to Clinton or Reagan era rates because it would be a disaster just like it was during their administrations.

    I am a proud liberal, I don’t “hate” conservatives… I think honest conservatives have something valuable to say at the fiscal discussion, social conservatives are a waste of space for the most part. I do not need them to force their view of morality by way of religious doctrine down my throat.

    I do hate the “me before society/country” approach that they favor and I hate Fox news and the obvious work they do for the GOP. I hate MSNBC for the same thing they do for the Democrats.

    Obama is not evil, Gov is not either, its only as good or bad as the people WE elect to run it. Conservatives spend just as much if not more money than liberals but they think their “stuff don’t stink” Unfortunately, they have this thing called a “record”

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Your O won so why are you on this site petrified? By the way you lie about the Conservatives and Libertarians but they tell the truth about you Dems/Progs/Leftists.

      • Dave67

        Because unlike you, I like to have my belief’s challenged to see if they are worth keeping…

        That is scary to you I know.

      • JON

        Why are you on the site? To criticize others because YOUR life sucks?

      • eddie47d

        That is your problem Nadzieja. The right lies so much anymore YOU can’t tell what is right and wrong anymore.

      • Karolyn

        Where do you get that anybody is petrified, Nadzieja? Are you projecting your own feelings?

    • Bill

      There you go again, Dave
      Making up stories to sound like you know what you are talking about. You must be young and fresh out of college. Your lies might sell to the young and uninformed, but not to us that have lived through it.

      • Flashy

        Bill…out of curiousity, what part of Dave’s post are you claiming are untruths?

      • Dave67

        Where am I wrong Bill? I lived in DC through the Nixon,Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton years…

        Where am I wrong?

        I keep forgetting… Conservatives are completely respectful of liberals or anyone who disagrees with them. They are willing to look at all sides of an issue and don’t go off half-cocked… They have added nothing to the debt we have, they have an outstanding record on protecting this country and personal freedom.

        Its all the liberal media and their lies…

        Does that make you feel better Billy?

      • Kate8

        You know what, Dave 67… I couldn’t care less whether liberals are respectful. I just want them to leave me alone. I don’t want them to use government to restrict my freedoms.

        Be as nasty as you like. If a tree falls in the forest, and no one hears it, is there any sound?

        It’s like that.

    • joe1cr

      The Democrats ,their majority was broken in 1994 and they retained their majority again Which forced Clinton to changed his economic plans and control spending. Since the elections in 1954, Democrats have controlled Congress until the 1994 elections, where the Republicans dominated until the 2006 elections. From 2006 to 2010 Democrats had control. In 2010 to 2012 Republicans have the house and Democrats have the senate.
      Here are the totals 12 years – Republicans 40 years – Democrats. 2 years split.

      Since the elections in 1954, Democrats have controlled Congress until the 1994 elections, where the Republicans dominated until the 2006 elections.As far as Wall St “collapsing” the economy…you need look no further than their enabler. The U.S. government. as to the root cause. I’m not defending Wall St., but you have to look at the bigger picture. A government too large and trying to do everything for everybody, encouraged risky loans, looked the other way when some corporation did something wrong because that corporation helped some congresscritter or some other “reason” Whenever someone tried to reign this in, they were shouted down as racists, bigots, homophobes..ala the Freddie and Fannie hearings in Congress in 2006 and 07. Barney Frank, on camera stated that there was no problems with these NGO’s, a year or so later, the crash happened in……yes, you guessed it Real Estate ( that would be people’s homes to someone like you )

      It was in fact Bush and the Republicans that tried to fix this back in 07. They did try to protect the little guy, but big government lackies, i.e. Frank, Pelosi, Dodd, etc etc had control of Congress and defeated their efforts to save all of us from the mess we’re in now.

      As far as going with unreal levels of stupidity, dude, YOU’VE crossed the Rubicon on that one.

      • Dave67

        So Pelosi was in charge of the SEC that said 30 to 1 bets were ok?
        Frank was the author of the Gramm-Biley-Leach Act that effectively got rid of Glass-Steegal?
        Dodd put in rules that loosened speculatory oil trading?

        Both parties are involved in creating the mess that boiled over in 2012. The conservatives love to be in denial about their roles.

      • Robert Smith

        I find it hilarious that the extreme right condemns the deregulation of real estate and stock markets.

        And yet they say we have too many regulations.

        BTW, who was it who took advantage as the rich got richer? Where have I heard about the 1%? Oh, right here. I can’t believe that folks are arguing against their own self interest and supporting them.

        Trickle down doesn’t work. Let’s go back to the Reagan tax rates.

        Rob

  • Louis Lemieux

    From Ben Crystal: “Liberals don’t just hate conservatives; they loathe them with every twitching, twisted fiber of their beings. Of course, liberals are defined by their white-hot hate. Their whole movement is based on pitting Americans against each other.“

    It doesn’t take too much psychology to understand that Ben Crystal thinks he sees in liberal behavior what he actually sees in himself. It’s called psychological projection. Of course people like him, far from the center, do exist at both ends of the political spectrum.

    • speedle

      Louie, your amateur psychology efforts are really a bit embarrassing. You are either politically biased, or miss the point altogether. If you step back and take a long look at the entire election process and campaign, you might (just might) take notice that the entire focus of the left wing (democrats) was to get people to hate the rich (Romney in particular), and to otherwise define the differences between the races, genders, sexual orientation, nationalities etc. On the other hand Romney’s message was always one of trying to bring the different aspects of society together.

      Have you gone through that exercise? Perhaps you should, and start to think for yourself rather than taking your cues from AP writers or the New York Times.

    • speedle

      Jeremy, Jeremy, the Jon Stewart show? Really???? You cite that as some kind of credible source of news? Come on man. Only someone who has been in a coma for the past year could honestly claim there was anywhere close to as much hate mongering from the GOP as there obviously was from Obama’s gangsters.

    • speedle

      Flashy says, “just what was it that Romney was absolute as far as any stance other than to continue the welfare to the wealthy programs?”

      What the hell are you talking about Flashy? “welfare to the wealthy programs”. Give me an example please of exactly what you are talking about. Let me explain. “Welfare” is typically associated with “giving” money or some sort of value to someone. “taxing” is taking money away from someone who has it. “Not taking more money” from someone in taxes has no relationship or meaning to the term “welfare”.

      There. That wasn’t hard was it. Now just start using words properly (not phrases from the DNC campaign slogan box), and we can all have a discussion.

  • Nick Czudy

    Ben Crystal. This is so typical of Right wing conservatives. I think that you got the parties mixed up. Conservatives hate everything about their opponents. They hate women, they hate gays, they hate atheists, they hate Europe and China, they hate ethnic groups, they hate unions, they hate rules to keep unscrupulous people from cheating ordinary people for profit. They lie continuously and hear it so much that it is perceived as the truth. This is part of the infamous bubble that all Conservatives live under called the “Bubble”. You can make up any lie and the rest of the faithful will eat it up, hook, line and sinker. ……………………………………………………………………………………………………..The hate and negative actions that take place with the FOX news pundits and their radio cohorts, have done nothing for positive growth in the USA. Their hate for MSNBC is rampant. When I listen to Maddow, describe a point with a preamble, evidence and the reasoning behind the opinion, and then listen to Hannity who just issues a lie and assumes that all of the listeners are under the “Bubble” and therefore will believe and automatically accept his opinion, it is like listening to reason versus lies. Their only purpose in life is to put down any action or to go back in time with constant referrals to the founding fathers and patriots etc. Even O’Reilly, who tries to say that he is balanced with no spin, is definitely leaning far right in his viewpoints and he constantly cuts any guest off, if his guest’s point is contrary to his point. His “People vote for Obama because they like gifts and want things”.is getting tiresome. What Mitt was trying to do was to give gifts to the 1% by lowering their taxes and helping his billionaire buddies like Shelden Adelson, save billions, by getting him off of his law suits. Most of the GOP are getting gifts from the medical industry to keep the status quo and their profits. So if you are fair and balanced O’Reilly, then talk about the gifts that flow on the republican side.
    Now in congress they are wasting everyone’s time with witch hunts on the Benghazi and Fast and Furious issues. The only thing that the conservatives are doing in all of these issues is to obstruct. These are non issues. Please spend your efforts and energy to fix the fiscal problems. Conservatives. stop hating and do something positive. Stop being obstructionists to progress and moving ahead. To independents as myself, to keep flogging these issues, just pushes us further away from ever believing in the Conservative philosophy.

    • Kate8

      Nick – What a load of *&%$#!* that was. I hardly got past how conservatives hate women…

      How so? Gee, HALF OF US ARE WOMEN.

      You could also say that liberals hate men, which is a far truer statement!

      You progs need to grow up and stop with the tantrums. It’s just not attractive.

      • Dave67

        You hate tantrums Kate? Why do you read half of these articles on this site? Half of them are just that… tantrums…. Whining about how they lost the election, how their power is getting reduced… Crying, blubbering about how evil Obama is taking their country away.

        Its quite comical how scared conservatives are now they are becoming the minority more and more.

      • Kate8

        Davewhatever – How funny you people are.

        What’s really sad is how the evidence clearly points to the fact that the election was a ruse, that the Left clearly rigged the vote, and what’s even worse is that the right let them.

        Remember how you all wailed about how W “stole” the election from baby Huey? And that was nowhere near as obvious and in-our-faces as this one was.

        Losing fair and square is one thing, but having an election so blatantly fraudulent is a sure sign of just how far gone, how meaningless, our voices are. And you lefties are perfectly OKAY with it. Think how different it would be if the outcome was the same only in reverse. Methinks you’d all be screaming like banshees…

        There is no justice left in America, and it is just as much the fault of the Right as of the Left. The real difference here is that you lefties are fine with winning any way you can, even if it means an end to America. That is just plain tragic.

        • Nick Czudy

          kate8. I am not sure what planet you are from, but the only side that was trying desperately to skew the election was the GOP. Their blatant attempts to suppress the votes where ever there was a GOP governor was pathetic. Voter fraud, what a joke. call if for what it was, it was simply a devious attempt to keep democrats from voting. Then there is the company, paid by the GOP, to take voter registrations and then throwing the democratic ones in the garbage. The only devious and dirty tactics only came from the GOP. Tell me one example how the Dems rigged the election. Face it, most of the people in the USA did not want a president that lied continuously and then defied the fact checkers. It was not rocket science to predict the winner. Cannot the GOP tell when their brethren are lying to them? All of the independents and dems know when the GOP are lying. The lies fly continuously and if you are a die hard right winger, you eat up the propaganda like dessert.

          • Frank Kahn

            You have no credibility in the lie detection arena. Yes, Romney was deceptive but Obama lies every time he makes a promise. He also lies about most everything that happens in his administration. I consider TWISTING THE TRUTH to be a lie, and the democrats lied on every point they used in the campaign. Now, I will hand it to them, they are better LIARS than the republicans, they got more people to believe their LIES.

            If you disagree with my assertions, please feel free to give an example of something that Obama has said or done that is not a lie, and is good for the nation, and I will tell you why it is either a lie or bad for us, or both.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank. I do not know of Obama lying. One thing that he does very carefully as a politician is to measure his every word and be careful not to say something that will come back to haunt him later. That cannot be said for Romney. Many times that he said one thing, the next day, his committee was saying that he didn’t mean what he said the day before. Ok some Obama statements (YOu said promises.) 1) Ok he said that he would not raise taxes on the middle class. He lowered taxes on them many times.
            2) he said that the economy would be solved from the middle out, not from the top down as Romney professed. That is absolutely true. The top 1% might invest a little in new jobs, but most of the money will be invested outside of the country and will not circulate around the US. The top 2% gained about 10% in owning the total GDP of the US assettes while the middle class has been flat or actually feel. 3) He said that he would get Bin Laden, 4) He said that the USA did not need to enter another war. He did that by staying out of Libya and he is doing everything possible to not go to war with Syria or Iran. 4) He said that he would raise taxes on the top 2%. I think that everything that he has done to this day is to forward that promise. 5) he said that he would lower the dificit. There is a chart somewhere that has been circulating showing the deficit going down in each of the last three years. 6) He promised to implement some kind of better health system. As much as he could, he got Obamacare going even with the heaviest opposition from the Right. 7) He said that he would work to get equal pay for women for equal jobs. 8) he said that he would repeal “Don’t ask don’t tell, 9) He managed to increase the economy and jobs, in the last three years, even as the Right was doing everything possible to make all of his policies fail or abstruct them, even if they were GOP ideas in the first place. 11) He saved the auto industry. It was too big to let it go down the toilet. he did.
            Now once the GOP go control of the Congress, they obstructed everything that he wanted to do, so, some promises did not happen. He tried, But the President is not God or a King and the co-operation of the senate and congress are needed to make laws happen. I do not know of any promises he made that he did not at least try to keep. You tell me Frank.
            The list of lies and half truths and false statements could fill a couple of pages from the Right. What is this preoccupation of trying to discredit Ms Rice. for the Benghazi affair. They sure know how to waste taxpayers dollars chasing issues that are strictly for their political gain or to discredit Obama, but of no benefit to the American people. McCain has the gaul to make it such a big deal when Susan Rice spouted what she was told to say, He was the one that stood in Congress a decade earlier of spoke of weapong of mass distruction and that the USA needed to go to war with Saddam. Now that lie had some serious condequences. Susan Rices does not. can;t they get to work and solve our fiscal cliff issue.

          • Frank Kahn

            Okay, need to define lies. If Obama made a campaign PROMISE and then broke that PROMISE is it a LIE? POLITIFACT has rated his 2008 list of promises and, they show that he broke 16% of 508 of his promises. That equals 81 lies. He KEPT 37% of his PROMISES, which is 188. That is a total of 269 of 508 promises. The remaining 45% (239) have not been kept but are either compromises or still in the works.

            “One thing that he does very carefully as a politician is to measure his every word and be careful not to say something that will come back to haunt him later.”

            While this may be true (not) it is an indication of stealth not honesty. There are many instances of Obama saying one thing, and then later his administration saying “that was not what it meant”. To discount the opposition, you have to falsely believe that Obama never said what he said. And that tired old LIE, by his side, that we take it out of context is pure BS.

            The rest of your contentions took some research.

            On the tax cuts for the middle class, I fell into a rabbit hole of what appears to be prevarications. The articles I read all point to the RECOVERY ACT, as giving the MIDDLE CLASS tax cuts. Well, maybe that is true, but it is not apparent in the wording. There were many tax breaks, and credits that had an upper level cutoff that was in the $140K income range, these could be called reducing taxes on the MIDDLE CLASS, but they were mainly aimed at lower income people. And, you might say that there were several TAX CUTS to the MIDDLE CLASS in this one bill but I consider it to be one act not multiple instances of tax cuts.

            “he said that the economy would be solved from the middle out, not from the top down as Romney professed. That is absolutely true. The top 1% might invest a little in new jobs, but most of the money will be invested outside of the country and will not circulate around the US.”

            THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE? So you are an expert on the economy? What is true, is that IF there will be ANY recovery under OBAMA, it will have to come from the MIDDLE because he will not take any actions that will ALSO allow it to happen from the TOP. The fact that the TOP 1% DONT create JOBS HERE is because of GOVERNMENT POLICIES. Under current regulations and taxation, it is more profitable for large corporations to conduct their manufacturing in other countries. Although this might be motivated by GREED, our government could change things so that their GREED would allow them to create more jobs and opportunities here. Maybe there could be apportioned tax breaks for creating new jobs. Maybe, for the 1st 5 years of a new job position the company will not have to make matching contributions to employees FICA or other taxation matching requirements.

            “3) He said that he would get Bin Laden, 4) He said that the USA did not need to enter another war. He did that by staying out of Libya and he is doing everything possible to not go to war with Syria or Iran.”

            I am still waiting for more information on #3, there are reports that Bin Laden died 10 years ago. There is also a report by a Pakistani that the attack on the Bin Laden estate was not as reported. He said that the people conducting the raid spoke a language native to their country and not english. He stated that the people raiding the compound as well as whoever was removed were killed and burned in an explosion aboard the helicopter.

            #4. By staying out of Libya, I assume you mean we had no boots on the ground. We definitely supported the rebellion with money and weapons. There is speculation that we are attempting to do the same in Syria. Iran is a different matter entirely, we are trying to use sanctions to avoid a war, but Obama said that all options (military intervention) is not out of the question to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.

            “5) he said that he would lower the dificit. There is a chart somewhere that has been circulating showing the deficit going down in each of the last three years.”

            Actually, he said he would cut the deficit in half in his first term. That deficit was 1.3 Trillion dollars.

            “President Obama did make that promise that day, saying, “today I’m pledging to cut the deficit we inherited in half by the end of my first term in office. ”

            “The 2013 budget the president submitted today does not come close to meeting this promise of being reduced to $650 billion for fiscal year 2013.

            The president noted in that 2009 speech the Obama administration inherited a $1.3 trillion deficit.

            The deficit was similarly $1.3 trillion in 2011, is projected to be $1.15 trillion in 2012, and the president’s budget claims it will be $901 billion in 2013.”

            http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/obamas-broken-deficit-promise/

            I provided a link to my source of ABC NEWS. You can also see that the deficit reported by them did not decrease in each of the 3 years.

            “6) He promised to implement some kind of better health system. As much as he could, he got Obamacare going even with the heaviest opposition from the Right.”

            This (Obamacare / AHCA) is not a better health system. It is a FORCED health insurance system. Health care INSURANCE is not HEALTH CARE.

            “7) He said that he would work to get equal pay for women for equal jobs.”

            I did not research extensively on the subject of actual things he has done that GIVES women equal pay for equal jobs. I do note, however, that during the debates, when asked that question, he only said one thing to prove he supports this. He referred to the Lilly Ledbetter act, which might help get fair pay but was actually a litigation tool. It changed the way that the statute of limitations is applied to law suits over unfair pay policies towards women.

            “8) he said that he would repeal “Don’t ask don’t tell”

            Okay, now we are stretching the limits of credibility on what is good for the nation. There are many things wrong with legislating morality in one way or another. The dont ask dont tell was designed to allow Homosexuals to serve in the military without facing the consequences of violating the UCMJ. There was an article, 205 I think, that specified the male homosexual sex act as sodomy and it was a punishable crime. Dont ask dont tell would have been unnecessary if that article had been changed or removed.

            #9 is debatable on terms of the economy, it is a very small improvement in jobs, and no real improvement in unemployment.

            You left out the number 10 in your list

            “11) He saved the auto industry. It was too big to let it go down the toilet.”

            This one will have many arguments and many different spinning opinions. Obama did not “saved the auto industry”. Japan, Germany, China many countries have parts of the auto industry that were not affected by the disastrous bailout of GM. Even claiming that Obama saved the US auto industry is stretching it, FORD was and is solvent and doing fine in market shares. GM on the other hand is failing in its control of market shares in the US and also in EUROPE. Its market share has plummeted and so has its stock value. Barring a miracle it will not be able to improve its market share anywhere anytime in the foreseeable future. It is even possible that it will need another multi-billion dollar bail-out within the next 4 years.

            “Now once the GOP go control of the Congress, they obstructed everything that he wanted to do, so, some promises did not happen.

            The GOP did not get control of Congress, it was the House of Representatives. It is true that many if not most of Obama’s bills failed to pass Congress, but that is because of the Democrats not the Republicans.

            FINALLY TO THE LAST QUOTE OF YOUR POST

            “What is this preoccupation of trying to discredit Ms Rice. for the Benghazi affair. They sure know how to waste taxpayers dollars chasing issues that are strictly for their political gain or to discredit Obama, but of no benefit to the American people. McCain has the gaul to make it such a big deal when Susan Rice spouted what she was told to say, He was the one that stood in Congress a decade earlier of spoke of weapong of mass distruction and that the USA needed to go to war with Saddam. Now that lie had some serious condequences. Susan Rices does not. can;t they get to work and solve our fiscal cliff issue.”

            Okay, I am getting lazy since this quote has several items to discuss.

            You need to be more focused on who they are dissing about Benghazi. I will take it that you are saying that Rice was just spouting the LIES the Obama administration told her to tell. Discredit Obama? Is the search for truth a form of persecution? Knowing the truth is of no benefit to the citizens? We need the whole truth to judge the actions of those involved. There are reports that the administration knew it was a coordinated military style attack within days of it happening. If those reports are true then Obama and his cronies LIED about it being a result of a spontaneous demonstration over that video.

            Pushing back a criminal LIE and justifying it as less severe than one told by another person is invalid. The loss of life is tragic no matter how many there are, 4 dead are as bad morally as 1000. There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Sometimes the definition of WMD’S needs to be given. No, there were no atomic bombs, but Saddam Husein had chemical agents (poison) and the delivery systems to deploy them (missiles).

            And, finally, the fiscal cliff. Strange that everything is a cliff these days. The economic cliff, the fiscal cliff, the global warming environmental cliff. All of them a major problem for the government.

            The fiscal cliff was created by this administration. The GOP wont approve tax hikes unless the Democrats agree to massive spending cuts. The Democrats wont “promise” (pretend) to make major budget cuts unless the GOP agrees to massive tax hikes. So, what happens if we do nothing and sequestration occurs? Wow, look there, we have massive budget cuts and tax hikes without anyone doing their job. Dont like the fiscal cliff (sequestration) then do the massive budget cuts and some tax hikes before it happens. Same result.

            Now, considering that you are a die hard liberal Obama supporter, I must assume that by “they” you mean the republicans. I also must assume that you mean cave into the demands of the democrats without getting meaningful budget cuts. As a realist, I sincerely hope that that does not happen, we need financial responsibility in government, which means responsible spending, not just raising the DEBT CEILING and MORE TAXES.

          • BR549

            Nick wrote [in response to Kate8]: “Tell me one example how the Dems rigged the election.”

            Funny, but that was the EXACT same question we heard from the Republicans when THEY stole the elections. Both sides have been busy trying to outdo each other’s election charade for decades, leaving voters thinking that only THEIR party is capable of waving the red, white, and blue and that the OTHER side has to be representing satan.

            For crying out loud, get a grip. Kate isn’t suggesting that the Republicans are blameless, here; she’s pointing the corruption finger at BOTH parties. The problem is that when people who understand the larger picture try to dialogue with those that don’t, the latter seem to develop total amnesia about events beyond four years.

      • eddie47d

        Oh yes Kate 8 the old “rigged the election” diatribe. Works every other year for you doesn’t it!

      • Dave67

        Kate8,

        I never cried about Gore losing… It should have never been that close and Gore is solely to blame for the loss… And thank god we got Bush….

        He gave us 9/11, The Patriot Act, Iraq, Tax cuts during two wars so only military families sacrifice for the wars and so much more incompetence… All the stuff you conservatives defended and loved while your boy was in power.

        So quit your crying about this election… You lost and Tricky Mitt deserved to lose… The country is no longer dominated by white males and I know that scares you conservatives a great deal. Get over it and work to help us make the country a better place instead of acting like spoiled brats who feel entitled all the time.

      • Kate8

        Dave67 – It’s not about winning or losing. At least, not for most of us.

        It’s about the fact that we have an America-hating, treasonous communist sitting in the WH who fancies himself to be some kind of deity. It’s about how he’s crossing out our founding documents line by line, shredding our very foundations.

        It’s about how idiots like you are all over, gleeful that you now get to tell those of us who desire freedom how to live, and you get to raid our coffers at will. It’s about having an immoral, corrupt, and bloodthirsty bunch in charge, and a pack of mindless Borg cheering them on, salivating at the thought of some imagined “payback” toward those evil white conservatives.

        If you had put anyone with decency, trustworthiness and genuine intent for the good of America in office, someone who is willing to see that more than half of the country ISN’T liberal, socialist, communist or disirous of other people’s property, there would be no problem. We’d be able to live with it.

        But you’ve proven that you can’t be trusted with power, and now we all will have to pay dearly for your ignorance, stupidity and lack of balanced information.

        That being said, I do not trust the Right, either. It’s just that you people can’t see that the entire system is rigged, and that makes you dangerous.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        Kate8; Can’t help notice the left wing that comes to this site are the real haters but attack as the best defense. all you have to do is read eddie teddy 47 ways to be a commie to know how they think. Lie’s to them is just their truth coming out, like looking in a mirror and seeing someone great, great at lying and stealing elections, they are the 47% give me crowd more people to join their plantation.

      • eddie47d

        What election year lie did you peddle Benjamin.?

    • Frank Kahn

      Nick, I understand your pain, you cant find a cogent reason to refute the truth so you stoop to the level of ad-hominem attacks.

      I have copied several sections of your post to quote here so I may address the many obvious lies (misdirection of truth) in your post.

      Quote #1

      “Conservatives hate everything about their opponents. They hate women, they hate gays, they hate atheists, they hate Europe and China, they hate ethnic groups, they hate unions, they hate rules to keep unscrupulous people from cheating ordinary people for profit.”

      1. Grouping all CONSERVATIVES is an invalid assumption.
      2. Grouping all who oppose the current administration as CONSERVATIVES is invalid.
      3. Opposing something that we think is unfair is not HATE.
      4. Opposing financial support of abortion and/or birth control through government mandate is not against WOMEN.
      5. Opposing the unfair, unequal, treatment of ETHNIC GROUPS (affirmative action) is not HATE.
      6. Stating the problems caused by UNIONS interference with the market is not HATE.
      7. Stating that China has an unfair advantage in the market is not HATE.
      8. NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN BY HATING RUSSIA.
      9. Advancing opinions based on Christian belief about Atheists is not HATE.
      10. There is a big difference between REGULATIONS that cripple SMALL BUSINESS and REGULATING profits of large MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS. You appear to be claiming that our position against massive regulation is to help the greedy, when in actuality it is to help the small business owners.

      Quote #2

      “They lie continuously and hear it so much that it is perceived as the truth. This is part of the infamous bubble that all Conservatives live under called the “Bubble”. You can make up any lie and the rest of the faithful will eat it up, hook, line and sinker.”

      1. THEY? To whom are you referring? Is it all CONSERVATIVES or just the CONSERVATIVE MEDIA?
      2. The INFAMOUS BUBBLE, that you refer to is a creation of who? I dont want to label people but I seem to believe that this phrase is a construct of LIBERALS (MEDIA TYPE).
      3. If there is, in fact, a BUBBLE, then one might make the same claim for LIBERALS.
      4. It is a matter of OPINION which set of FACTS are LIES, so, believing what one side tells you over what the other side says is LIVING UNDER A BUBBLE.

      Quote #3

      “all of the listeners are under the “Bubble” and therefore will believe and automatically accept his opinion, it is like listening to reason versus lies. Their only purpose in life is to put down any action or to go back in time with constant referrals to the founding fathers and patriots etc.”

      1. Once again, it is ASSUMED that EVERYTHING that he says to the people under the BUBBLE, is a lie, and therefore not worth hearing.
      2. THEIR only purpose? Who are you talking about?
      3. Put down ANY ACTION, NO, Just to oppose those actions that we see as bad.
      4. GO BACK IN TIME? This one is very typical of anti-conservative rhetorical lies. When we (people who support the constitution) speak of the founding principles or founding fathers, we are talking about values, not physical time travel. You dont have to revert to the living conditions of the past to embrace the values they lived by.

      Quote #4

      “Most of the GOP are getting gifts from the medical industry to keep the status quo and their profits. So if you are fair and balanced O’Reilly, then talk about the gifts that flow on the republican side.”

      1. MOST? Please define most when referencing the MILLIONS of REPUBLICANS in this country.
      2. What GIFTS are they getting from the MEDICAL INDUSTRY?
      3. FAIR and BALANCED? I task you with using the FAIR concept here, BALANCED is out of the question since unfair gifting is bad for either side. The reference made to GIFTS given to OBAMA supporters is in the form of ENTITLEMENTS, direct government subsidizing of the voters. It also references free abortions and contraceptives to WOMEN, and FREEDOM from PROSECUTION of ILLEGAL aliens. I am not a REPUBLICAN nor am I a CONSERVATIVE, but I have received none of these benefits. Whether the GIFTS made a difference in the outcome of the election is not mine to say but, there were GIFTS when viewed in this context. Now, Nick, tell us what GIFTS the REPUBLICAN party has given us to influence our votes?

      Quote #5

      “Now in congress they are wasting everyone’s time with witch hunts on the Benghazi and Fast and Furious issues. The only thing that the conservatives are doing in all of these issues is to obstruct. These are non issues.”

      1. WASTING EVERYONE’S time? Please refrain from telling me that they are wasting MY TIME.
      2. WITCH HUNTS? BENGHAZI and FAST AND FURIOUS are factual occurrences, do you mean that, exposing the truth about them is a WITCH HUNT?
      3. How do you equate the pursuit of truthful information about them to be an OBSTRUCTION of something?
      4. NON ISSUE? Mistakes were made, people died, we want to know how and why, how is that a NON ISSUE?

      Quote #6

      “Please spend your efforts and energy to fix the fiscal problems. Conservatives. stop hating and do something positive. Stop being obstructionists to progress and moving ahead.”

      1. What person told you that we are not focused on fixing the FISCAL PROBLEMS?
      2. As explained above, HATE is not the issue here.
      3. DOING SOMETHING POSITIVE is what we are doing, it just isnt what you think is right.
      4. OBSTRUCTION is a term used by the current administration to describe CONSERVATIVE values. It is not factual, in that, obstruction goes both ways, Obama is OBSTRUCTING the CONSERVATIVE values.
      5. Here we have the most crucial lie (distortion of the truth) using deceptive wording. Obama did not promise PROGRESS, he promised CHANGE. Now, I am sure that PROGRESSIVE LIBERALS believe that CHANGE and PROGRESS are the same thing. I am also fairly certain that THEY believe that CHANGE / PROGRESS is a good thing. I DISAGREE, I feel that OBAMA’S change is BAD for our nation. THAT IS WHY I WONT SUPPORT OBAMA’S CHANGE, if you want to call that obstruction then I say OBSTRUCTION is a good thing. Oh, and by the way, CHANGE can be BACKWARDS instead of FORWARDS.

      • Kate8

        Bravo, Frank Kahn! Very well said!

        It’s really too bad that the liberals won’t understand a word you just said. In fact, I doubt they’ll even try.

        We’ve had these debates every day for years now, and the liberals do not hear any of our refutes to their claims. Why? Because it’s not about that. It’s about repeating the lie often enough, loud enough, that it, eventually, becomes accepted as true.

        In fact, I submit that they actually DO know the truth of what you say, but that is not the issue with them. Their task is to refute ALL THINGS CONSERVATIVE, true or not, reasonable or not, just to keep everyone agitated.

        Truth is not in them, Frank. There is no resonance there with them. Thinking that they will even consider your wise words is asking too much of them… In fact, they are here to peg those whose insight they find threatening to their lies.

  • Doc Sarvis

    Painting with a broad brush are we today Mr. Crystal? Oh yes, you always do.
    Complaining that some people refer to Fox News as faux news is lightweight compared to the names and direct attacks on President Obama on this site, including racist comments. What a thin skin you must have.
    While you will find some hateful behaviour on the Left; please don’t try to convince me that there is no hateful behaviour on the Right as well. Neither of these extreme sides are promoting the best in our country. The strong Democratic win earlier this month illustrates that the majority of Americans see the issues without the veil of extremeism.
    You are correct that MSNBC leans to the left but it is NOT without criticizing President Obama and other Democrats on many occasions. This criticisim is aimed at the left of our centrist President who often takes a moderate stand the Left does not agree with. That President Obama works to represent the vast majority of Americans as opposed to folding to the Left or Right extremes is his big appeal to voters along with the inclusiveness (all types of American Citizens NOT the 1%ers) of the Party Platform.

    • Karolyn

      Speaking of racists, look at Steven’s post below. Another generalization.

    • speedle

      Hey Doc, would you do all of us here in the proletariat a favor and “define” exactly what your definition is of the term “RACIST”?

      • momo

        Speedle, a RACIST is anyone who disagrees with Sarvis.

  • steven

    Show me some good that ni66er’s have ever produced, when they move into a neighborhood in a matter of one or two generations the neighborhood is trashed, show me some thriving black owned businesses please.

    What is truly sad is the black people who truly try to better themselves are Uncle Tom’s or house ni66er’s.

    You can call me a racist but of the so-called three or four friend’s I have one is black and sadly he is held by by his own family.

    • Doc Sarvis

      This is an example of the racist statements I reference too often on this site. There is nothing true in these stereotypes.

      Would you have voted for successful businessman Herman Cain, the Republican front runner at one point in the Primaries?

      • Cherio

        Some of these comments -are- from the leftist instigators that stir up trouble. And ignorance runs across all people.
        We need to stop fighting and realize both sides are using us and pitting us against each other (social warfare)
        Herman Cain is no republican in the correct sense of the word. He is a progressive in sheep’s clothing.
        I would love to hear more from Alan Keys but the DC status quo ignored him just as they did Ron Paul. Love Thomas Sowell, libs hate him…. Racial warfare is immature, ignorant and dangerous. Look into blackgenocide.org and see how tolerant and compassionate the democrat party, progressives and liberal feminists are. We are all being “played”.
        We are all useless idiots to the “ruling elite”…….

      • Karolyn

        Then, Cherio, why do you play along by making comments like you did below about liberal feminists. Do you know any “lberal feminists?” What is a “liberal feminist?” I don’t know any that might fit into your definition and probably have only known one or two in my lifetime. You give nobody credit for thinking for themselves and put everybody under a label given to an extremist. In actuality, I would venture to guess that the number of moderates in any category in this country is far greater than the extremists.

      • Cherio

        K- the left women’s groups define themselves as such, NOW, Planned Parenthood supporters, etc they are outspoken liberals who preach feminist view points, do they not? Gloria Steinem, Hillary Clinton, Margaret Sanger come to mind. Yes, I have personally known those who label themselves liberal feminists…

        That being said how many women and men that uphold so-called “women’s rights” know of the direct link of Margaret Sanger’s racist views to women’s rights organizations? Hillary and others have touted of Sanger’s undeniable contributions to women’s rights. And through Sanger’s own writings and words she was undeniably a true racist. She hated certain groups of people and hated true feminism which loves and embraces the ability to create life.

        Certain groups persuaded by “liberal feminists” are not aware of this history because the truth is hidden from them.

        As there is hipocracy in all things I do not believe the Republican Party nor the Democrats uphold and protect our liberties. We are forced and boxed in…

        As I abhorr abortion and believe it is murder, I also believe the Federal Govt cannot make one rule to fit a county, when it comes to individual freedom. If the all knowing Govt. can deem abortion legal across the board can they not force a specific religion on us as well?

        I don’t believe in mob rule or majority rule because it robs liberty and free will. But I do believe in natural law and natural consequences. Black and white common sense. We may disagree on the grey areas.

        I believe in states rights and personal choice, but I believe we are divided morally as a country. Those who believe in a Creator and in obeying His laws will separate themselves from those who believe in doing as they please at any cost. This is free will or free agency given by God.

        I believe those who force, take away another’s free agency ( as in murder or slavery ), exercise any dominion over another human being will cause others to suffer as well as themselves. Natural Laws and consequence.

        I believe all force is morally wrong, period. That being said I cannot force a woman to not have an abortion. But a group can decide it is evil to kill a living human and not be forced to pay for, accept or live under such force
        (China?). I have my individual right to not uphold such practices, for I see them as evil.

        We don’t have much say when a well funded well armed government enforces its will upon us, do we?

      • Karolyn

        Cherio – Live and let live. Is that not a definition of freedom? We do not need to be “divided”.

      • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

        I would vote for Cain or any conserative black person, male or female. I didn’t vote for obozo because he is a illegal with tie’s to the islamist world who let his plantation slave steal the election for him always shouting racism, that is for fools and idiot’s.

        • BR549

          Ben wrote: ” I didn’t vote for obozo because he is a illegal with tie’s to the islamist world …. ”

          While I might also believe that he’s illegal, the fact remains that he has spent a small fortune trying to squash his records from being released and I’m not going to go into the numerous details here. Unlike you, I DID vote for him …… in 2008, and even though he refused to disclose his position on NAFTA, I believed his message at the time. I wasn’t so naive this time around.

          NAFTA and its predecessors were nothing new. Bush Sr. just happened to be the globalist appointed flunky to try to sell it to the American public in that sickening speech of his about the New World Order. The people, too many of them, unfortunately, were asleep. He couldn’t muscle it through on his watch so Clinton, being the next globalist appointed flunky, was more than happy to sign us up. This is why Ron Paul stated during his final speech that people keeping voting for change, but the agenda always stays the same. This has nothing to do with partisan ideologies. The problem has gone far beyond that.

          Honestly Ben, I wouldn’t have cared whether he was illegal or not, or even if he was a Muslim, so long as he supported the Constitution, as he swore to do. But he has surreptitiously been knocking chinks out of the Constitutional armor since he’s been in office, but we are only now finding out how far back that deception goes; back to when he was a student. That aside, you should read Dr. Paul Craig Roberts’ article this week about Osama bin Laden. Roberts was Reagan’s Asst. Sec. to the Treasury and has been a consummate whistleblower concerning BOTH parties candidates caving in to the globalist bankers. He’s been as critical of both Bush Administrations as he’s been of Clinton’s and Obama’s.

          While I had voted for Obama back then in ’08, it was because of Bush the Idiot being led around by the globalist puppet strings that I couldn’t vote Republican; at least not until that party actually put up a meaningful candidate who wasn’t such a dolt.

    • Karolyn
      • eddie47d

        Ouch! Karolyn: Stop proving the Steven’s wrong or there won’t be anyone left to “pick on”.

      • Flashy

        Don’t worry Eddie..there’s always DaveH, his never read Mises links, his calling opinion denigration (when he can’t find a catchy titled Mises link) and then claims he had ‘good grades” in philosophy and boasting he never read the Great Philosophers…

      • Kate8

        So, why don’t you guys just go and blog on a site which caters to your views?

        Oh, wait… Because this is your JOB.

      • eddie47d

        I bet Dave H and Kate 8 get paid much more than I have received. LOL! I must admit I should take myself out of retirement and get a part time job but the pull of this blog is just to enticing! Double LOL! Besides my grandson would be so upset if found an outside JOB.

      • Karolyn

        Kate – I get nothing out of preaching to the choir.

      • Kate8

        Karolyn – Really? And just what is it that you get out of preaching to US?

    • Bill

      Steven,
      Your comments are a good example of racism. Unlike most accusations of people that disagree with someones viewpoints.

      You are so blatantly racist that I suspect there are other motives to your comments

  • Karolyn

    Labels, labels, labels! I am so sick of labels! The generalizations are sickening! Ben Crystal is writing about famous liberals, so why not call them famous liberals or liberal journalists or liberal politicians. But even then nobody can, or should, be generalized in such a way. Lets face it; there are extremists and haters on both sides of the fence. There are many conservatives who promote division too. There are also so many varying degrees. Boxes are for stuff, not people.

    • Doc Sarvis

      You are correct. I think that folks who generalize and box folks into broad categories are unable/unwilling to deal with the complexity of our society.

      • Kate8

        Karolyn and Doc – Funny how only liberals complain about this…and on a conservative site, too. Go figure.

        Your very presence here is divisive. Your idea of not being divisive is for us to just accept your ways of thinking. LOL. I mean, your whole purpose of being here is to create angst and aggravation. It’s the job description.

        Amusing how on the defensive you guys are today. I mean, if the shoe fits… , and, hey, liberals are the INVENTORS of labels, Karolyn! Really smarts when you get pegged, doesn’t it.

        I have an idea…why don’t you progs just leave us the heck alone until you can grow up and become capable of a reasonable discussion? You accuse conservatives of not listening…but we’ve HEARD IT ALL BEFORE and it was no more useful then than it is now. It is YOU who will not listen to reason. You have your mantras…your sacred cows… and no amount of pleas for individual freedom are heard by you… Now we’re tired of talking, and it’s time for some real action.

        It’s over, folks. We’re beating a dead horse already. There is nothing to be gained from debating a liberal. It’s just wasting precious time, at this point. And that IS their point, you know.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Awww, Kate8 – don’t cry.

        You would rather have a conversation with someone who is exactly like you and does not give you a challenge? To me that is boring AND to make progress in this country we need to discuss various viewpoints rationally. Otherwise it is us and them instead of all Americans together, which is how our country achieves great things.

      • Kate8

        Doc – LOL. You flatter yourself.

        Challenge? It’s only challenging because you are incapable of reason.

        You aren’t here for discussion. You are here to ridicule conservative thought and to distort the issues. I read the job description. But let me tell you, you are fooling no one, nor are you succeeding in confusing the issues. Diverting them, perhaps… but then, that, too, is your aim.

        The fact is, we’ve been running in circles with you fools and it’s gotten us nowhere. We haven’t bought what you’re selling. We’ve been at these “discussions” for years, and just like in a bad marriage, we still keep repeating the SAME, TIRED, WORN-OUT, BORING arguments with no inroads whatsoever. You won’t hear us when we tell you that we only want to be left in charge of OUR OWN LIVES, and wish the same for you….

        You are hell-bent on controlling how everyone lives, and there is no way to get through to you. I suppose that is because there are more earners on the Right and the Left needs them for their “entitlements”.

        Don’t you think it would just be better if you people lived the way you think things should be, and allowed others the same? What part of LEAVE US ALONE don’t you understand? What part of “freedom” do you find objectionable?

        No, Doc. Sorry. The talkin’ part’s over. It’s time to use a little force against YOU, and KICK you out of our business.

        Get ready.

        • Nick Czudy

          Haha Kate8. I wanted to say hello. You seem like a sincere and fervent believer in the conservative way of life. The main problem is that most right wing are brain washed from lies that are told to them, by the wealthy men in power to keep themselves in power. You have to learn to recognize a lie when it is told to you.
          The lie of losing your freedom is one of the biggest ones. Tell me one area where you have lost your freedom, from actions of the federal government? Where ever the GOP get into power, they want to force government down the throats of citizens. One example is where they want to force ultrasounds and other restrictions on women. Let them have the freedom to make their own decisions. It is admirable that you are Pro-Life, but do not force your views on others. Live the mantra of less government. When ever they get into power the GOP wants to regulate the population even more while chanting about smaller government. One of the biggest lies is that the Conservatives are the hard working side of America that is supporting the takers, the democratic takers of hard working peoples money. The actual fact that came out was that the GOP states are the biggest takes in America and they are actually taking more money than they are contributing. It is actually the democrats that are paying more into the government coffers. I will not take the time to find the article that researched this fact. But if you demand to see the facts, I think that some one here will be able to come up with the information faster than I can……………………………………………………………… You have to learn that everything that is said on Fox, Hannity, Rush Limbaugh the writers on this blog can be taken as truths. You have to recognize when they are spouting lies to appeal to their base. Look at how many GOP pundits were dead wrong in calling the election. They all knew that they were lieing, they just said it to pander to their base. That is you Kate. I have heard all of your talking points as you are spouting the gospel according to the Right. If you want to listen and believe these lies, half truths and one sided opinions, then guess what. You are free to believe them. But we do not have to. they make no sense and we can see that.

          • Frank Kahn

            He, Nicky boy, the right has no monopoly on lying (correct spelling). The left, which includes but is not limited to the democrats, liberal and neocons, have told thousands of lies during the election campaign. You swallow as many lies from the left as anyone else does from the right. As to the takers vs givers, I have seen supposed authorities claim it both ways so if you believe yours is right, you are as delusional as those that think the other way.

            Not all left wing people are lazy leaches on society anymore than all right wing people.

            To discredit EVERYTHING that comes from conservatives as some form of right wing lying or lunacy is stupid, the same as if it was done for information coming from the left.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank. Nice to chat with you again. You are trying to be fair and balanced. But I am sorry. If I was to guess, lets say that not everything that the left says is true. I will use the 80:20 rule. The right lies 80% of the time and the left 20%. I am not Democrat and not Conservative, but after listening to both sides and the fact checkers, the right wins with about 80% that they say is false. This was especially true with Mitt and company, during the election. I really have come to the impression that the right really stretches the truth to outright lies way more than the dems. They also beat dead horses with causes that seem to be so important to them, that are blatant attempts at political advantage. Best regards. I listened to david Letterman one night and the guest asked him if he was dem and why they poked fun so much at the Right. His reply was that he was independent and as a political comedian, he depends on mistakes, misquotes and crazy things for him to joke about politicians. He said that if he relied on the Dems, he would be out of business as a comedian. But the right keep giving and giving and give him the most material. That is the way that I see it. Look at all of the stuff that has gone on with the Tight with crazy statements.

          • Frank Kahn

            I do not support Romney’s changing policies. I dont consider much of what the democrats call lies as lies. I saw way too much twisting of words to fit the democratic agenda. I have responded to your later post, giving facts to support my objections to your items. I see lies much more prevalent in the democratic campaign, through twisting of almost everything said and done in the last 4 years. It is actually the left that push moral issues to the front of the debates not the right. The right only responds to the lefts attacks. Maybe the numb minded followers of liberalism think it would be best if we would just accept the insane moral posturing of the left as good.

            Much of what I disagree with is the left wing extremist on this blog site pandering massive quantities of BS. But, the official response, of the DNC, to an objection to paying for Birth Control and abortions as woman hating is egregious. Wanting our immigration laws to be upheld is not hatred towards minorities. Objecting to the, erroneous, statement that homosexuality is normal is not hating homosexuals. I dont care if homosexuals want to be that way, I just dont want anyone to tell me that I have to accept it as normal.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank. i saw your detailed response to me last night, just as I was going to bed. I read it and I have a lot to reply to your words. It will need an hour or two, for me to formulate my response. Hopefully this weekend, I will have some time. I have to work for a living and I do pay my taxes. …………………………………………………………….In response to this blog, I think what we both call lies can be a mix of 1) an outright lie. (For example Ryan at the ROC, saying that Obama was responsible for the demise of the GM factory in Wisconsin, that actually went under before Obama came into office.) It can be 2) bending of the truth, (eg. when Romney and gang said that Obama took the work requirement off of social security when all he did was allow the local state governors (who were mostly Rep.) to handle it within the state, as they requested) To 3) careful editing and taking things out of context. (Like when Obama said that “we did not make it” The whole statement was an entirely different take then just editing a short part of a phrase. Then there are 4) things that are wrong and they are being said, maybe because of ignorance rather then being done intentionally. (Eg. Ryan and Bachman saying that the earth is 8 t o10,000 years old and the dinosaurs were on earth along with the human race. Then Michelle wanted it to be taught in the Minnesota school system. Then there can be things like 5) false facts, that are being told and believed by many gullible people.( An eg. is Todd Akins with his rape statements.) 6) there are Political which hunts, that are beating a dead horse to try and get political favour. (Like Fast and Furious and the Benghazi attack) In these which hunts, the inquisitors are after documents and things to discredit certain public figures instead of going after the main issues(Like how did they fail to provide enough security and how can they prevent it from happening in the future? Instead they are going after Susan Rice who just spoke the facts that she was given from the CIA. ) 7) Then there are the doom and gloom that have been professed by many people and especially here with the authors of these blogs. They are spreading statements about the end of the USA if Obama winds. They rant about the collapse of the financial system, revolutions and all kinds of pessimism. The Congress trying to “Make Obama a one term president” was pure obstruction and in some countries, this would be perceived as traitorous, they would be executed. They did not try to do their jobs and fix the problems of the USA and improve the economy. Summation:………. These are all different forms of misstatements that I have bundled together to call them “lies” in my original response. What ever form these are they are still not fact, not true and misleading those that trust these people to be guiding them honestly and accurately. Obama does not do any of this type of misinformation. One of the biggest lies that has been perpetrated in every GOP run state was the blatant attempt to suppress the Democratic vote and trying to call it an attempt to prevent illegal voting. Do they think that the majority of Americans are stupid? They should all be charged and put in jail for trying to take away the constitutional right of every American to vote. The tactics coming out of the GOP side is rich with variety and maliciousness. Now one of the GOP mantras is….. “Freedom”…..So the first thing that a GOP state does is to try and prevent women to not have abortions and to force unwanted procedures on them. Governor Ultrasound in Virginia is an example. How is this “Freedom”? Old white guys in power, should not be forcing their moralities and religious beliefs on the population. If you are a firm believer in the Right to life, then you will have the freedom to exercise that right. Roe vs Wade is the law of the land, I wish that the GOP would stop trying to keep repealing it. Live with it. Lets see them set a good example and live the way they profess their values.
            If they are against gay rights, then you need to purge the politicians that have been caught with their pants down in numerous scandals. These are on both sides. But the majority are on the right. It seems in spouting their morality on others, they seem to fail to live the very way that they want others to live. Stop being hypocrites. The left are not the ones that are professing their morality, they are professing a broad and accepting point of view and more freedom . Do speak your views, but do not try and push your morals and way of life on others. It seems that the GOP want to do that.
            I will say again that I will respond to your other post on the weekend. You gave me a lot of home work to prepare to respond your comments.

          • Frank Kahn

            I am not going to parse this one, I will just do it from memory.

            Your views on the democrats is distorted to a major degree, and we will not attain any agreement on the multitude of lies from them and Obama in particular.

            The statement about legitimate rape was twisted into a lie by the democrats.
            Obama saying he called the Benghazi attack a terrorist attack the next day was a lie.
            Every one of you who claim we are taking the “you did not build that” out of context is a liar.
            Saying we want to force our morals on you is a lie.
            Saying democrats dont push the (im)moral acts of citizens is a lie.
            Your insistence on giving republican gaffs as examples of lies shows that you live by the lie.
            Obama lied about everything GOOD he promised in his 2008 campaign.
            Obstructionism is not bad when you are trying to stop stupidity from ruining our country.
            Democrats calling everyone that disagrees with Obama a racist is a lie.
            I am a very thoughtful and reasonable person and, I cannot find one thing that comes from Obama and his administration to be truthful in its content or intent.
            Will there be devastation because of Obama? Yes, there will be massive problems.
            Will the nation eventually recover from the problems exacerbated by Obama? Maybe, but it will take several generations.
            Is that doom and gloom, hell no, it is realism.
            Does Obama deserve respect? NO, not until he shows respect for the rest of the nation.

            Will things get better in the future, maybe, but only when we can rid the nation of people who think like Obama and the other LIBERAL extremists in this country.

            When the liberal progressives stop calling religion a radical and old fashioned out dated philosophy we might get on the road to recovery.

            When you realize that tolerance is not meant to be used on illegal and immoral conduct, then we can discuss reality.

            I know it is a very fine line to walk between intolerance of immorality and forcing morality on others but it is a line we must walk to save our human society.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank. After reading your response, I realize that you are living under the bubble. You have taken the bait, hool line and sinker. I will never be able to talk reason to you.

            You only want to hear what you want to hear. All of that crap is the typical right distortion. You all live in a parrallel dimension. haha. Ok Now I understand.

            Obama said it was an act of terror the 2nd day.
            Akin said that women should not be allowed a abortion if raped because they seldom got pregnant, If she was really raped her body would prevent pregnancy. If she got pregnant, then she really wanted it.
            Benghazi is rediculous. who cares if obama or Rice called it a terrorist attack. It makes no difference. Nothing happened from ERice saying what she said. McCain said that Saddam had Weapons of mass destruction. Not that send 100o’s of Americans to their death and you and FOx are only worried that Susan Rice didn’t call it a terrorist act. Can’t you see if makes no difference. Concetrate on things that are important.
            The tone in your voice oozed of hate of the left wing. You are calling them the biggest liers when they are amateurs when compared to the GOP and right.
            relogiion is a freedom. that includes that Atheism is also a freedom. Do you assume that everyone that tollerates religious people rambling on about the bible and morals is enjoying it? In the first two years of the Obama admin some think tank scored him on how many of his promises he kept. He in two years had passed 8 years of Bush in getting good things done. He is on his way to being the best president that the USA has ever had. the Dems generally do not make gaffs, because they speak with wisdom and do not spout outrageous stuff that comes back to haunt them. They do not say 47% of Americans are takers. They do not say that 87 members of Congress are communists. the list goes on and on. The question is whether it is done on purpose because they know that their base will believe what ever they say, or it is ignoramce that they do not know any better? The liberal progressives are tollerant to you practicing your religion how you like, but keep it out of government and do not push it on the population.
            the economy is healing fine. Imagine how well we would be if the GOP house only helped in the positive direction instead of obstructing. How come bills that they promoted in the past, all of a sudden when Obama took republican ideas and caved in to pass them, then the GOP would vote against it. It is not to obstruct bad laws, It is to obstruct so that Obama would not succeed. that is a traitor. they should be hanged.Why would a patriot that loved America want to plunge them into recession and cause the reduction of the credit rating of America for thefirst time in history? that is not a patriot. that is an idiot and a enemy to the country.

          • Frank Kahn

            NO, it is you who has fallen for the leftist lies, Obama never called it an act of terror anywhere in that rose garden speech.

            It is not hatred to know the truth about his lies. You are the one under a bubble because you suck down the lies like they are candy. He lies almost daily, his accomplices cover for him. He is the traitor to this country and the gop did good to stop his insanity.

            I dont use the right wing sites for my opinions, I use intelligent thought.

            You are almost as bad as Deer, you both are only saved from the bottom by that bottom feeder GALT.

            All of the facts repudiating your list of items were truth not made up crap like what comes from the left.

            Obama said “you didnt build that business” you can try to deny it but we have it on tape. no spin will help you avoid the truth.

      • eddie47d

        Its Kate’s way or the highway Doc so you better give up your right to an opinion.

      • Robert Smith

        Hey Kate8! You want: ” It is YOU who will not listen to reason. ”

        Do you mean stuff like the earth is only 6,000 years old?

        Do you mean stuff like “legitimate rape?”

        Do you mean stuff like the 47% of freeloaders in America?

        Do you mean stuff like…

        How long does the list need to be to see “reason?”

        Rob

      • Karolyn

        Kate – If anyone is hell-bent on controlling others’ lives it’s conservatives.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Kate8, “force”, get kicked out of your busiess? I’ve been threatened here before and have learned that they are, at best, hollow threats. Most of the threats seem to come from chicken-hawks. Nobody’s touched me – not even close.

      • Kate8

        Doc – So what you are saying is that you won’t allow anyone to stop you from controlling their lives and FORCING them to do things your way.

        These responses are a perfect example of just what I am talking about. You won’t hear anything anyone says. Your minds are locked into ridiculous propaganda and your vision is so clouded that it’s impossible to communicate.

        You, and RS and the rest, throw out really stupid things that most of us have never said (including myself), but then, that is how you all have been trained. You try to create cognitive dissonance. Too bad for you, it’s not working. Most of us just see you all as idiots.

        We have nothing left to talk about. Period. Everything you’ve spouted has been addressed ad nauseam, and yet come back with the same oft discounted retorts. You are either tools or just plain stupid…there are no other choices.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Kate8, you are embarrasing yourself.
        I am NOT controlling anybody’s life, believe me. Please, Please,Please tell me how I am “forcing” ANYONE to do things my way.
        I am NOT denying other people here the right to say what they want. I do, as others on all sides of these issues, challenge what is presented when I find it necessary (and when I have the time).
        If you dispute my ideas it is up to you whether or not to respond to them and how to do so. I certainly am not dictating these rants of yours.
        You talk about my “ridiculous propaganda”. If it is so bad you may choose to differ with me. So far, at least on this thread you have attacked me as opposed to any ideas and truths I present. You even threaten me (though weakly I must say) with “force” of some kind, just for adding to the conversation. All of that too, is your choice but it reflects poorly on you.

      • Kate8

        Doc – You can skip the wimpering about some veiled threats, like you people like to do in order to go running to BigDaddy to tattle… How about just growing a pair.

        You don’t personally force people. You just use the government to do it. Force things like Obamacare, higher taxes, property theft, over burdening regulations, “hate” crimes that take away free speech and freedom of religion, FORCING the indoctrination of our children into gay lifestyles in school… I could go on and on.

        Why not leave us all free to raise our children as we see fit? Why not allow us to choose our own healthcare? Why not encourage the release of better health technologies, and the providing of better food and clean water so we don’t get sick as much? How about promoting a better system so that those behind the medical system don’t pocket trillions while we all struggle to get a decent meal?

        Nothing you support makes any sense. I don’t want your healthcare, yet you wish to force in on me using the IRS and chipping, just because YOU want it.

        How about you just organize your own little system and let those who WANT to participate, do so? And let the rest of us do our own thing.

        How about you just keep out of education, stop using the media to indoctrinate our youth with liberal ideologies, stop treating Christians like second-class citizens while glorifying the evil and the profane, and FORCING us all to adhere to YOUR ideas of how things should be?

        If you want to make change, at least make it for the better… for EVERYONE. This means LIBERTY.

        You can keep putting me down all you want. All that means is that you find what I have to say a threat. You know I speak the truth, and truth is your nemesis.

        Sorry, but I take every slam from you as a compliment. It means you notice what I say, and you don’t like it. Go ahead…alert your controllers. I would rather leave this world than live in the one you people are creating.

        You are guilty of treachery toward your country. Not that it matters to you, being the low-life mentality that you are. You don’t believe in goodness and morality, kindness and doing the right thing. You are no better than your politicians who use you to feather their own nests, and to subjugate your fellow Americans. What you are is as pathetic as it gets, and you will face the consequence of your treachery at some point. Don’t be surprised if no one wants to listen to you whine…but then, being the good people that they are, no doubt some “evil” Christian will offer you comfort of which you are wholly undeserving.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Kate8, I’ve never doubted your ability to rant so you don’t have to prove that. I didn’t realize you could pack soo many inconsistent positions into one rant though. Impressive. You must have written speaches for rich man Romney.

      • Mike in MI

        K88 -
        WOW, If that were to have been spoken it would have been a prophetic mouth full. But, it wasn’t. So I guess it was a handful…probably a double handful. Do you get spirit in your fingers or somethin’ (?) … to be able to carry the words so fast from your mind to your fingertips? Whew!!! Must have just about burned up your keyboard on that little soliloquy. Great writin’!!!
        Can I say something about trying to appeal to the “reasoning mind” of a liberal? Don’t, … it’s a waste of time. There is no such thing. Reprobate mind, maybe, but not reasoning.
        According to Romans 1:28 the closest they get to something “mind” is “God gave them over to a REPROBATE mind”. That’s about it for them.
        Why?
        Well, this passage is primarily directed at homos who it says “changed the truth of God into a lie and WorshipeD and ServeD the creature (“ktisis” – creation) more than the Creator.
        Now, read through to verse 1:32 where it talks about, “Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but – have pleasure in (center margin reading: “consent with”) – them that do them.”
        All these knuckle head liberals abandon God and His principles (values, morals, ideals, ideas) and change it into lies. Then they elevate their own dumb philosophies up to equality with God and His word or higher. Then they worship that and become in basic consent with every unreasonable, brain dead, God-hating, reprobate minded homo on earth.
        I mean, some of these blimps won’t even be thankful because it would require acknowledging something outside themselves might have helped get what they SHOULD BE thankful for. Now, how’s that for arrogant pride?

        p.s. – but they’ll applaud Obumpster informing them, “You didn’t DO THAT.”

  • RichE

    Does, “Size Matter”? I’ve been thinking, I think we should call it, “Bad Government” not “Big Government”. Can we create a “Good Government”? You can’t just plant a seed and expect to have a good garden. Our Forefathers planted their seeds upon this nation. It is our responsibility to turn this nation into a good “big” garden for everybody.

    • Flashy

      “Does, “Size Matter”?”

      Not according to the articles in Penthouse …

      • RichE

        Flashy,
        Then why is the porn industry all about big boobs, big Johnsons and “My isn’t it hot in here”?

      • Kate8

        LOL. Just keep telling yourself that, Flush.

      • Flashy

        Hey…Kate and Rich…PENTHOUSE articles …OK? I’m not saying a word other than cite a magazine and articles therein.

        Jeesh ….

        • RichE

          Darn!

      • Kate8

        Flush – It does show where your mind is, though.

        BTW, does your mom know you have those mags in your basement “office”?

  • rendarsmith

    You left out “Making women hate men” Ben.

    • Karolyn

      You get the prize for the first laugh of the day! “Making women hate men.” That is really funny! :-) Frist of all, nobody can “make” anybody do anything. Secondly, you must be living in a really small box if that’s what you see.

    • Cherio

      I agree more class warfare- this is huge with liberal feminists…..

  • http://msn.com donald de

    I find it amusing how some people can rant about other people and their ideas while beleiving they are always right and the others are wrong.
    America is over 200 years old and we still don’t hve IT right!!!
    A mark of inteligence, is to see a situation from all points of view and try to find a solution that is benefical to most of the people. We can never please everyone.
    Fox news IS a tool of the Republican party. It is a fact that they do not present accurate reporting. There were two studies that concluded: people that only listen to Fox are the less informed people. MSNBC have some of the more inteligent people. They tell you what the Republicans don’t want people to know. In fact, I am convinced that some of the people at MSNBC are far more inteligent than any one on Fox.

    Read ISAIAH 32: and pay attention to 8&9

    • Kate8

      donald – That is so funny I don’t know where to start.

      How about, Fox tells you things the democrats don’t want you to know?

      How about, both Fox and MSNBC do not report things the ruling corporate elite don’t want you to know?

      How about, the same 5 corporations own all news outlets (except for a few independent outlets, which receive threats about what they “cannot” report.

      Wise up. If you take any of them as gospel, you are a fool.

      • BR549

        Kate wrote to donald de: “Wise up. If you take any of them as gospel, you are a fool.”

        That is the wisest information you or any of us could offer to anyone. Even what we hear from many trusted whistleblowers is often “late” information, but it’s the best they have to offer. The conspirators are always hard at work changing the chess pieces around in order to thwart their predictability.

        While the libtards sit back and laugh hysterically, thinking this all to be a joke, and how could any of this possibly be real since they weren’t able to comprehend the often subtle signs, the sad truth is that, as these plans come to bear, these people will be in for ONE HUGE SURPRISE, but by then if they haven’t been preparing to whatever degree, it will be too late, and THEY will be the functional zombies that they are now watching as “entertainment” in the movies.

      • Kate8

        Thanks, BR, but the truth is, the trolls don’t care whether it’s true or not. Most likely, they never do any investigating at all. They are party operatives sent forth to distort, deflect, deny and demean anyone who is a genuine truth seeker to try to keep everyone distrusting everything so they don’t get too close.

        The ruling elite have only gotten as far as they have through secrecy. That secrecy has now been exposed, so they are continually putting out mis-/dis-info. We all know that things are very wrong in our system and in the world, and we know that this current WH is hellbent on our total destruction. ( I doubt whether Romney would have been any better.)

        Anyone who is perceptive and says what they think is attacked by these operatives. They attempt to provoke and confuse, and like to put words in our mouths. They use the same retorts over and over, no matter what anyone says.

        I read some of the tactics they use, and they are trained. It’s all-to obvious that they aren’t very bright, albeit treasonous.

        We must recognize them for what they are. They, too, have been exposed, and the sooner we treat them like the bozos they are, the sooner we can go on to better ideas instead of constantly debating them. It truly is a waste of time, and they just get off on it.

        • BR549

          Kate wrote: “Anyone who is perceptive and says what they think is attacked by these operatives.”

          Kate, some of these so-called “operatives” do it maliciously, while the majority, as you had suggested make no attempt to concatenate the odd series of events and they do it out of ignorance and fear.

          It’s a deer-in-the-headlights reaction. They know something is wrong but, since they can’t see it or touch it, they project their insecurity onto anyone who challenges their safety bubble. The same thing happened when Bush the Idiot came into power and led all those grain-belt Bible-thumpers to believe he was operating by the word of God.

          The ignorant are so easily led down garden paths.

      • Kate8

        BR – This is who they are:

        http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/05/confessions-of-an-ex-internet-shill-2155859.html

        A requirement of the job is that they deny, deny, deny that this is what they are.

        Another link on the subject is posted earlier in this thread.

        • BR549

          Kate wrote: “A requirement of the job is that they deny, deny, deny that this is what they are.”

          It was on another thread that I had detailed the account of my serving as a website moderator years ago. There was a woman who ranted incessantly about Chemtrails and would post pictures as proof. At the time, I was neutral on the issue. The problem was that she had zero knowledge of how normal jet contrails were formed, so any slight variation, even in the normal ones sent her into a Chicken Little rant. The scary part, other than the fact that she refused to listen to common sense about the regular contrails, was that she also had, what we now realize are, many legitimate images of the government’s Chemtrail program to support HAARP.

          As an aside, that website you had given to me about the Confessions of an Internet Shill also contained an article about Paul McCartney being replaced by some lookalike. WHY, exactly someone would have interest in even swapping him out is beyond me, but that author somehow felt it necessary to inform us about it. For me, the proof would have been in the doppleganger’s being able to also write music in Paul’s previous style and also repeat Paul’s unique bass syncopation …….. and do it all on a left-handed Rickenbacher.

          My point goes back to what I’d said on a previous thread (somewhere out there) about the quality of journalism and being able to weed through the crap to find issues that are relevant. The Paul McCartney Swap article being right next your Internet Shill article didn’t help with the credibility and only left me with having to examine the rest of the site to see whether it mentioned three-headed aliens at WalMart (oh, wait; that’s no longer news) or containing a missing piece about NDAA.

          In the case of the site you mentioned, at http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/05/confessions-of-an-ex-internet-shill-2155859.html, I find the majority of the articles “credible enough” not to dismiss them, although the odds of finding anyone else who looks like McCartney and being capable of playing his music left-handed are, well, astronomical.

          Back when Cronkite was on the air, we all took it for granted that the government would NEVER let the TV newsmen lie to us. It was a given. Now we know better, and sifting our way through the rock solid data, the half-truths, and the lies has left everyone skeptical, not only of the news, but of everyone else who happens to buy into it. You wouldn’t have gotten as far as you have in this process if you didn’t understand what I was referring to. Keep up the good work.

      • Kate8

        BR – Yes, I am aware of all of the BS news. I heard an interview with a web journalist one night, and he said that, for the most part, news is unvetted. Journalists will get wind of a story and run with it, not really caring about its accuracy. They figure they can change it when the facts come in.

        I found the internet shill story credible, not only because I had long suspected it, but because it was already being revealed other places that democrat operatives were doing this, and it was being investigated. Think about it…no one goes to opposition sites and sits there posting all day, every day…especially when they are considered idiots. And the tactics…there are always the same.

        Who cares about the look-alike thing. There are those who claim that there are lots of clones out there, or at least stand-ins… I suppose it’s no more “out there” than spraying us all like bugs….And yet, that is exactly what’s going on. I’ve come to the point where I read everything, believe nothing…but don’t discount the possibility it’s true. After all, truth is, indeed, far stranger than fiction. Even with some of the things I have, myself, experienced…, had I not, I would not have believed, either.

        Beforeitsnews is probably the largest webnews out there…thousands of articles any given day. There’s bound to be a lot of cr*p, as well as credible stories. They pick up stories from all other websites, from both sides of the aisle, and from non-partisan sites… and leave the reader to vet them. They always post their sources, so it’s easy enough.

        • BR549

          I just used that “look alike” article as an example of useless mind fodder, but the rest of those articles certainly had merit.

          I view Drudge, Alex Jones, Savage, and many others, and one just has to do the discrimination thing. Jones has usually been at the forefront of tin-foil hat articles, but then what are we to call those conspiracy theories after they aren’t just theory anymore? About 1/3rd the time, his staff races to put stuff out there that had no meat, only a sensational headline, and yet, the problem is that the other 2/3rds of the time, he is usually spot on and well researched. I glean HuffPost, ANC, MSNBC, CNN etc, just to see what the MSM is trying to spoonfeed the masses on any given day. Unfortunately, too many people still think it to be news. A lot of those Obama shills hang out at HuffPost.

          The whole reason the public is left guessing as to what the truth is, and must then develop some measure of what the truth might be, is because of a lack of honesty and transparency, and whenever someone happens to question the status quo, all those extremist libtards and grainbelt bible-thumpers begin jumping up and down, crying foul. Because they didn’t realize they were living in a bubble, they have to project their security crap on everyone else. .

  • Incredulous1

    Wow, 2 to 1 liberals commenting on this site. And I thought the trolls would curl up for a long winter’s nap, smirking to themselves, with pictures of hammers and sickles dancing through their dreams.

    • eddie47d

      Why do you assume that an opposing opinion is an endorsement of the “hammer and sickle” ? Yes you are Incredulous in making such an hideous statement so why aren’t YOU reflecting on your loss. Shouldn’t you be finding a more positive message to get the Conservatives back on track instead of your “smirky” little comments which got you into trouble in the first place.

  • Dad

    Let’s put this in perspective… America’s educational system is broken and “produce” graduates that, compared to the rest of the world, perform in lower quartiles. Thus, America is generally fairly ignorant… as evidenced by this blog trail.
    The “producers” have little time for fools… they are too busy to engage in such pettiness as the liberals… envy, jealousy, and greed.
    The liberals need to start their own companies and pay whatever they want in salaries… giveaway their property… feed whomever they want… send money to countries of their choice. Just get out of my shorts because I have way to much work and responsibility carrying the load and taking care of my own responsibilities.
    I am not racist… nor bigoted… nor sexist… nor ______ (fill in the blank). I just don’t care much for druggie deadbeats, criminals (citizen or not), commie unions, government slugs, green activists… I have been paying for welfare scam artists for over 40 years… and it is not working… over 220% unemployment and 16 trillion in debt. I do more than my fair share. It is time to try something else.

    • eddie47d

      Liberals are not jealous or envious of Wall Street greed. Many of us loath the Corporate CEOs who pay themselves handsomely while laying off those who do the work for them. Most Americans saw that in the last election where “Conservatives” (Romney) take and take and leave union and non-union workers alike in the dust. NAFTA was pushed by Gingrich which sent jobs overseas and South with the false promise it would create American jobs.The American worker have been fooled by all the Elites and a few of them were even Democrats. Being fooled doesn’t make one “envious or jealous” but angry at being had by the “greed” that permeates in Washington and in Corporate boardrooms. We the American people have indeed been taken for a ride by these greedy scam artists but most are perched at the top of the pecking chain.

      • Cherio

        Goldman Sachs largest contributor to both parties…..
        O bailed out the Big Banks, greedy corporatist rich guys, both parties regulate business to the ground which sends jobs to China. Both parties do the same things.
        I guess liberals and conservatives have all the time in the world to read the “partisan” bills, laws and codes that are meant to enslave us?

      • momo

        eddie47d says:” NAFTA was pushed by Gingrich which sent jobs overseas and South with the false promise it would create American jobs.”

        And Bill Clinton signed it, so what’s your point? Both parties only want one thing—power, and they don’t care who they screw to get it.

      • eddie47d

        That is correct MOMO yet it was the Republicans (Gingrich) who went up to Clinton and promised him that no American jobs would be lost. Gingrich cost us dearly and Clinton was too trusting of the Republicans.

      • Kate8

        eddie – So what you are saying is that Bubba was an unseasoned simpleton and had no idea about how things work or what was going on. You are saying he was gullible and uninformed.

        And you thought this made a good president?

        What a joke you are. And how easily played.

      • eddie47d

        Your boy Gingrich lied to him so that makes you gullible sweetie!

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Nicely done OPINION article, Ben. It will certainly speak to many on PLD. To comment on some parts of it.

    “When I write, I share with you my opinion. I don’t present myself as a reporter”.

    It’s good that you recognize that, but most of you readers can’t make that distinction—you know, that opinions don’t need to be based on facts but “reporting” does?—anything they see in print that reinforces their beliefs is TRUTH. You know that and yet you mislead them—do you feel good about that?

    “Personal Liberty Digest™ offers straight news and identifies it as such”.

    WHOA, do you really believe that? Any “straight” news that I recall seeing on PLD is slathered with biased interpretations and therefore ceases to be “news”.

    “The same could be said by my colleagues here, right up to Bob Livingston himself. I don’t prevaricate about my purpose; nor am I interested in doing so. I like my job, and I am proud to have it”.

    And if you keep spouting horsepucky like this article, you will have a job for life. And brown-nosing Bob doesn’t hurt either.

    “They’re welcome to sacrifice their dignity in whatever way they see fit. I’m just suggesting they try to emulate, ahem, me a bit more and be honest about who they are”.

    BWAHAHA, LOL, & LMAO over the AHEM self-righteous hypocrisy in that statement.

    • Dennis48e

      Quote of RBT from Saturday.

      “My only comment on this thread will be that this assortment of comments is about the worst I’ve ever seen. I’m going back to the other threads and staying there. Bye”

      Yet here he is again today spouting words like an artesian well of alkali water.

      • eddie47d

        Saturday was a set up as per usual and the Conservative commenter’s were raunchy and wild as ever. RBT was only leaving for the day not permanently. You aren’t going to get that lucky! LOL!

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Thanks for coming to my defense, eddie, but Dennis has hoisted himself on his own petard. It DOES do my heart good to see that guys like Dennis are apparently reading everything I say and desperately trying to find something there to use against me. This is at least the third time someone has said the same thing on different threads—-that I left and now I’m back etc etc. I left thread A because, as eddie said, it “was a set up as per usual and the Conservative commenter’s were raunchy and wild”. eddie is being polite—-they were nauseating trash.

      And for at least the third time, I will point out to all that something I said on thread A on Saturday 11/24 has NO relevance to threads B and C and D that didn’t even exist until 11/26 and 11/27. I must really be beating them down if this is the best they can do.

      And where did you get this wild metaphor, Dennis? You say, “Yet here RBT is again today spouting words like an artesian well of alkali water”. I’m not going to look it up, but I’d be willing to bet that artesian wells don’t spout alkaline water.

      Eddie also said, “RBT was only leaving for the day not permanently. You aren’t going to get that lucky!”

      Yes eddie, just as the Terminator said, “I’ll be back”

  • http://loboviejo.wordpress.com loboviejo

    Progressivism is a philosophy incompatible with liberalism. Hubert Humphrey and George McGovern were liberals with progressive tendencies–like JFK and Reagan were progressives with conservative, even libertarian tendencies. The last conservative elected President was Calvin Coolidge.

  • RichE

    Nice list of what Liberals and Conservatives hate. Can we come up with a list of what each loves? Can we treasure common ground upon which to place a cornerstone?

    • Karolyn

      There you go! Why doesn’t anybody ever post good news? It does happen!! Why doesn’t someody come up with a common good, cooperative site where people can share their views without being hated? The answer to that is there are too many extremists whose views are written in stone and who allow no quarter – those who are truly in an all-confining box.

    • Louis Lemieux

      Being a liberal, conservative, Muslim, Jew or Christian has nothing to do with being a good or bad American. We all have our reasons for thinking what were thinking and for being what we are. Why then support hatred through words or actions? All of us humans form one great family and that in spite of all our religious, political and ideological differences. No doubt we have to protect ourselves from those who’s purpose in life is to harm others, but happiness is peace and peace is love and kindness to all.

      I’m far from being perfect but I do believe in the above and try to live accordingly.

  • Bill

    Good column, Ben
    Keep up the good work. You can tell how good your columns are by how many progressives get their panties in a twist.

    • Karolyn

      I am not a progressive, and my “panties” are not in a twist.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Dems/Progs/Leftists are being consistent, laughing at the Conservatives and Libertarians, then ridiculing, then anger and rage, then open opposition, then demanding that Conservatives and Libertarians compromise otherwise threats are issued. All this hasn’t worked so now craftiness is being applied.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Everyone has a right to be angry or to poke fun of what is seen as hypocrisy and stupidity in a particular argument. No one is demanding anything from one side. Both sides need to tone down the rhetoric and stop casting aspersions at each other. The political debate is not one of good guys and bad guys. The liberals are neither good guys or bad guys same as conservatives or libertarians. All these groups have legitimate points to make and all three have their good and bad supporters. The truth is the truth whether it comes from a liberal, conservative or libertarian.

      • eddie47d

        Nadzieja finally paid Liberals a compliment about our craftiness! How sweet! We try to be as enduring as a Sears Craftsman’s tool! While Nadzieja is a tool for the right!

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Tell me something Bill. Whatever your political label or ideology is. I wonder if you would get your “panties in a twist.” if someone cast all members or believers of your ideology as hateful monsters. Imagine if there is a pundit or politician who define themselves with the same political label as you do but you disagree with them as being too extreme. Then you read an article in which you are effectively placed in the same category as that person you disagree with. An untruth is always bad. There is nothing wrong with being upset over someone writing an article that presents a generalizing and bias viewpoint. The truth is the truth and the truth is liberalism is not defined by hate. Mr. Crystal is wrong in saying that it is. That untruth is what people are getting so worked up about.

    • Bernard Forand

      Bill are spewing your callow wisdom from a vast experience in the matter or just from pure twisted ignorance? No substance, just dysfunctional bigoted rhetoric.

  • Bernard Forand

    From Joseph Goebbels [1935], Jim Crow, John Birch, McCarthyism, to our Fox all right wing conservatives have promoted hate, violence, wars, assassinations, mass killings, bigotry, Propaganda, fear, and so on and so on. Yes we know where hate emanates from. Conservatives are those that are traditionalist, fuddy-duddies, reluctant to change, quagmire inhabitants and so on and so on. Incapable of progress or innovation. Just to continue in their abyss of muck and mire of antiquated policies that have no place in the evolution of intelligence. Time to kick them to the curb and move on and we will let them try to catch up, as they keep slip sliding away back, back, back into their abyss of hate…

    • Cherio

      ???

    • momo

      I don’t think Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse-tung were conservatives, do you?

    • S.C.Murf

      Bernie sounds to me like you have a lot of hate built up inside of you, better make that popping sound before you blow up

      up the hill
      airborne

    • Charlie R

      Very eloquent Bernard:
      Your words typify the Progressive movement ( that’s Liberalism my friend) and follow the Alinsky Play book. Liberals being the perfect people that they are can not, under any circumstance, leave well enough alone and are compelled to force their views on folks that do not see it their way. As you imply, Liberals are much smarter, much more human and preordained to save the world.

      As a former democrat, I recognize that the “new-progressives”, as you apparently are, are far different than Kennedy era democrats . When I evaluate the tactics of the current democrat party I see constant hate and discontent, fear tactics used against group’s, two faced lying generating divisiveness, and then there is the language used in character assignations. To democrats, the end does justify the means as illustrated by Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid jamming Obama care down Americas throat.

      From my perspective, and with 50+ years observing politics, Ive seen the democrat party degenerate to become street rabble ready to pummel all opposition. So, much for the tolerance espoused by liberals.

      Read you own writing Bernard, it perfectly illustrates the point

  • BR549

    Uh, Ben, look, I know you consider yourself a “conservative” and all, but you’re starting to sound like a righty-tighty, opposite end of the dysfunctional intolerant political spectrum, version of the libtard Obama worshippers. Get a grip.

    I agree with you ….. to a point. One thing you did say that made sense was, “Their whole movement is based on pitting Americans against each other.” Whether these people know it or not, they ARE being led around with this huge ring in their collective nose, no different than the grain-belt bible-thumpers who followed Bush over the cliff. Those (I can’t even call them conservative; they’re more like Chicken Little worshippers) right end whackos, like their left end whacko brethren, see anyone, who has the audacity to question the motives of our uncorruptible legislature and executive office, as thwarting our attempts to raise the spiritual consciousness of mankind or some such nonsense.

    The so-called “conservatives” vote for a globalist appointed stooge to oppose Obama, and the so-called “liberals” vote for his equally corrupt and dysfunctional counterpart; none of them understanding AT ALL when to come in out of the rain or when they are being led down the garden path.

    So help out the cause here. First of all,to address Nick for a moment, O’Reilly is a piece of arrogant trash. He is not appropriate for bringing up anything newsworthy unless the viewer was brought up in a dysfunctional household and feels “at home” with O’Reilly’s level of abuse. Secondly, O’Reilly, Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity and others were still waving the American flag and wearing their appropriately patriotic lapel pins when the realistic talk show hosts, then dismissed as conspiracy kooks, were proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bush was just one more in a long line of globalist stooge presidents and legislators who had sold out their own country to globalist banking interests. Bush, Clinton, Bush-the-Idiot, Obama; it doesn’t make any difference.

    The globalists’ stated plan has been, all along, as author Holly Sklar so eloquently put it, to remove any semblance of nationalistic, religious, or ethnic ties so that the populations around the globe will cease to have any sense that binds them with anything that could be seen as resistance to the New World Order. I paraphrased her here, but that’s the gist of it. You people are getting played like a bad harmonica while these pseudo-journalistic clowns like Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, and O’Whatshisface are now at least ten years behind in telling you what you needed to know and are now having to plagiarize other underground journalists’ work to keep the gullible public believing that they have a “good handle on the pulse of the news”.

    These clowns are too busy primping themselves in front of a mirror to pay any attention to any real news. If you want any REAL news, you have to dig for it and it won’t likely be coming from corporatist sponsored media that is run by the globalists. Our whole direction turned south after 9/11 and yet these forces had been hard at work using traitors like Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz, who KNEW what they were doing for decades; that’s why it was all kept so secret. But it wasn’t just the Republicans. Both of those Clinton traitors are just as much to blame, as well as Obama ….. the SAVIOR of the ignorant.

    This week, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, Reagan’s Asst Sec. to the Treasury, came out with this article. If you haven’t been frequenting his site and article, shame on you:
    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/11/26/the-osama-bin-laden-myth-2/

    Now, after having read that; try reconnecting your dots and you can see how many characters have been helping to sabotage this country by be being narcissistically focusing on their careers and failing to report the truth.

  • Liberty Lover

    Once you accept the Left’s starting premise that the ends justify the means, a serviceable lie will always be chosen over an awkward truth.

    • eddie47d

      You must be yapping about Reagan’s Iran-Contra Affair or his disastrous Lebanon exit. Hmmm! Maybe more recent with Bush/Cheney on Iraq War ?

  • carrobin

    In all my reading and listening to “liberal media,” I’ve never once heard a liberal deliver such a hate-filled, paranoid, wrongheaded rant against conservatives. Though I do admit that Chris Matthews is a little bit nuts.

  • RichE

    Kate8, You seem to have only one opinion.

    • Robert Smith

      My guess is that’s all Rush told her.

      Rob

      • RichE

        Be nice Robert. Rush is a very cogent speaker. I used to hang on his every word until the Sandra Fluke incident when he said his job was only to make the absurd more absurd. I don’t think Sandra Fluke was absurd.

      • Kate8

        As opposed to your ever-so openmindedness?

        You people are hysterical.

  • Andy

    The one consistent trait that I notice about “liberals” is their belief that ANY means justifies the end (what they want, think, desire, etc.). They want to create what they consider to be “utopia” here on earth as they do not believe (for most) that there is anything after this life. And, YES, I AM generalizing; I realize no categorization will ever be 100% so don’t start with who you know that is not like that, and is a liberal, OK? If I thought that way, I would be prone to panic and grab everything within my power to have while here. Personally, I believe they are guided by Satan. After all, isn’t there good AND evil here on earth and you must know where that all began. You have to be on one side of the other–to be a just and Godly person, you cannot sit on the fence. Look around and tell me that this new and UNimproved mindset that is all-pervasive in society today has lead us to a better place, i.e. 40% of births in the U.S. are to unwed mothers. Children no longer grow up in church and have no moral or religious compass by which to use as a guide throughout life. You get the picture (if you will).

  • Robert Smith

    Hey Andy, how the heck are you? You posted: “The one consistent trait that I notice about “liberals” is their belief that ANY means justifies the end (what they want, think, desire, etc.). ”

    You mean like rigging elections by suppressing the vote?

    You mean like lying to get America into war?

    You mean like Romney owning Rush, and a bunch of other right wing mouths?

    Rob

    • momo

      You mean bitching about a mean and spiteful Christian God?

    • Frank Kahn

      What voter suppression are you talking about?

      • Scipio

        Robert is obviously talking about the Philadelphia Black Panther Party intimidating voters out side the polling places. Obviously, it worked because in some Philadelphia districts Romney got ZERO votes. Yea Democrats!

  • http://www.facebook.com/stefan.podolczuk Stefan Podolczuk

    Dear Ben,

    Your article seems contradictory to the comment guidelines that follow it.

    Your views are divisive, and it is my belief that these attitudes are what’s tearing your country apart.
    My advice to you is to focus on the shared beliefs of your fellow patriots, rather than force the wedge deeper. Your politicians rely on this segregation so that you do not focus your energy on those in power who all the while strip your personal liberties.

    Your strength comes from knowing it, not showing it.

    I wish you prosperity

    • Nadzieja Batki

      So you have good company today with all the rest of the Leftists. If your ideology is incompatible with what some of us believe how do you expect us to go along side by side with you. We don’t see you breaking any speed records to join us.

  • Karolyn

    Moral Politics: How liberals and conservatives think.
    http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/467716.html

  • sesame

    Ben, you guys lost the election. Get over it as they used to say when the Supreme Court elected George Bush as President.

    • Kate8

      So, sesame, you are telling us to just get used to rampant election fraud, and to just lay down and accept it? It’s okay to throw out the military vote, to vote multiple times in multiple precincts, for illegals to be shown which button to push, for dead and fictitious to vote, and it’s okay to rig the machines?

      Is that what’ you’d do? It’s always okay when your guy comes out on top, isn’t it?

      I don’t think fraud is okay for anyone to engage in, and the entire country is diminished by such behavior. Any means to and end will only work for you until the end is achieved, and then you are of no more use to the “winners”.

      How low we’ve sunk as a nation. Well, you guys got what you wanted…it’s now controlled by the lowest common denominator.

      • http://yahoo Rocco

        But none of that happened, it is all in your head.

      • Kate8

        Rocco – And you know this…how? Because totally unethical Leftist Obama supporters said so?

        Your credibility is below zero, dear.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “It’s okay to throw out the military vote, to vote multiple times in multiple precincts, for illegals to be shown which button to push, for dead and fictitious to vote, and it’s okay to rig the machines?”

        Do you have any proof that this happened in this last election?

        • BR549

          tlgeer wrote: “Do you have any proof that this happened in this last election?”

          Um, do you mean like this?
          http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/nov/5/obama-suppressing-the-military-vote/?page=all

          And from:
          http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/yes-obama-really-is-suppressing-the-military-vote/

          ….. the following military organizations all feel the same way:
          The National Guard Association of the United States
          The Association of the U.S. Army
          The Association of the U.S. Navy
          The Marine Corps League
          The Military Officers Association of America
          The Reserve Officers Association
          The National Association of the Uniformed Services
          The Non Commissioned Officers Association of the U.S.A.
          The Army Reserve Association
          The Fleet Reserve Association
          The Special Forces Association
          The U.S. Army Ranger Association, Inc.
          AMVETS
          The National Defense Committee
          The Military Order of the World Wars

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “And from:
        http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/yes-obama-really-is-suppressing-the-military-vote/

        Other than the fact that WND is completely biased against Obama and the Democrats, and has been for many years, this article cites no proof of what is being said. None. Why would anyone choose to believe someone’s opinion over verified facts? That doesn’t make sense.

        • Frank Kahn

          I would ask you, what verified facts do you mean? There are a large number of claimed facts that you can research to verify or debunk, why dont you check them out instead of claiming it is all just one persons opinion?

          Just because a publication does not like a particular person does not make them biased, if their dislike is based on true facts it is not bias.

        • Nick Czudy

          Tigeer. To further your point of that article. I read it and it is another biased Right wing half truth that ignores the main point of the voter restrictions that were put in place in Ohio.
          They deliberately changed the hours of the voting times differently for the Republican counties and the Democratic counties. They reduced the times for the Democratic counties and removed the Sunday voting which is when most of the Black vote casts their ballots. This is mostly in the large cities where there is a much larger population. Other tactics were to reduce the number of voting machines in Democratic districts. The law suit was about much more than trying to restrict military vote.
          Also what makes you think that the majority of the military are GOP voters. It should not make any difference, which they are. Nobody should be targeted for suppression.
          The article makes a big deal of dead people, illegals, and others voting. They have not to this day found anyone voting illegally. It is a myth.
          The only voter fraud that was found in Ohio was a voting machine that voted for Romney whenever the voters pressed the Obama button. The other fraud was the company hired by Rance Priebus to register voters. They were found to be registering fake GOP voters and throwing out registrations that were democrat. the GOP party did not have a back up plan when this company and its fraud was found out and it hurt the party. Of coarse there is the video taped meeting where the State official bragged where the new Voter ID would ensure a Mitt Romney win, done!.
          The only voter fraud has been found to perpetrated by the GOP.

          • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

            “Also what makes you think that the majority of the military are GOP voters. It should not make any difference, which they are. Nobody should be targeted for suppression.”

            I don’t. I agree that it shouldn’t make any difference, nobody should be targeted for suppression.

  • John W. from Grand Rapids, MI

    I don’t watch MSNBC or CNN because I can’t afford cable or satellite TV. I don’t listen to political talk radio, period. I don’t watch the evening news on CBS, NBC or ABC. I’d rather read a good book.
    Here are some magazines that I enjoy reading:
    Whistleblower
    Newsmax
    Bloomberg Business
    I’m not a Republican or a Democrat…I’m an American.

    • Kate8

      Whistleblower – I used to like WND and Joseph Farrah, but something’s changed. Of some value, I’m sure, but they seem a bit sensationalistic anymore.

      Newsmax and Bloomberg – Both owned by NWO corporate media.

    • SJJolly

      Tigeer: The Tea Party Republican candidate lost. Therefore, there MUST have been, ” .. throw out the military vote, to vote multiple times in multiple precincts, for illegals to be shown which button to push, for dead and fictitious to vote, and … rig the machines.” It’s simply NOT POSSIBLE that the hard-right Republican / Libertarian philosophy was rejected by a majority of the American voters. Right?

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “The Tea Party Republican candidate lost. Therefore, there MUST have been, ” .. throw out the military vote, to vote multiple times in multiple precincts, for illegals to be shown which button to push, for dead and fictitious to vote, and … rig the machines.” It’s simply NOT POSSIBLE that the hard-right Republican / Libertarian philosophy was rejected by a majority of the American voters. Right?”

        Wrong. Of course it’s possible. That’s part of voting, is making your wishes known about who you want to represent you. That some people are saying that because their candidate lost, there must have been something crooked going on. No, it’s just that the majority of voters didn’t agree with you.

        I have seen no facts, just unfounded opinions, that the military vote was thrown out. I have seen nothing that proves that someone has voted multiple times in multiple precincts. I have seen no proof that illegals are voting, let alone being shown which button to push. I have seen no proof that the dead and fictitious people have voted. The only thing that I have seen that any attempted rigging of the vote came from a company in Florida, hired by the GOP, that was throwing out the Democratic registrations.

        Thinking that something happened without hard evidence that it did is only opinion. And it’s an unfounded opinion at that.

        • Frank Kahn

          YES, tlgeer, you are RIGHT, only hard evidence can prove something. I would be happy to see your HARD EVIDENCE about the throwing out of democrats votes. Not just an opinion mind you, some physical evidence.

          Now, as to hard evidence for the illegal alien and dead votes, and possibly even the multiple voting of a given person. We might also add people voting using the name of some other registered voter. All of these constitute voter fraud. While I cannot produce HARD EVIDENCE of these possibilities, I can pose a theory of how it could happen and how that situation was fostered by the Obama administration.

          When stating a theory of a possibility, many people call it a conspiracy theory. That is true, if you have a theory about a group of people it is a theory about a conspiracy. Being a conspiracy theory does not make it a bad or wrong theory.

          All of the aforementioned voter fraud situations could have been eliminated if we institute a required voter Photo ID system. I cant claim to be my neighbor when voting if I dont have a Photo ID saying I am him. The same goes for dead people. You can also eliminate dead people voting by removing their names from the voter rolls. Now, you might tell me that it is not the truth but, I seem to recall the Obama administration suing states to prevent them from instituting voter ID laws. Yes, I heard the less than genuine assertion that it would disenfranchise the poor. And the Obama administration said it was just targeted at qualified voters that would vote for him. But is that the real reason? Since that is just the OPINION of the left, would you consider the opinion of the RIGHT to be less probable? If the RIGHT say they suppressed the voter ID laws so there could be voter fraud, would that be any more insane than the opinion of the LEFT?

          Now, I dont have HARD EVIDENCE of voter fraud because the best way to catch it was suppressed by the Obama administration, but I have a theory about a trail of circumstantial evidence that shows it is possible.

          Just food for thought, not an accusation.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank. You said: “Yes, I heard the less than genuine assertion that it would disenfranchise the poor” An elderly person that no longer drives a car, does not really have any Photo ID. To get this involved sometimes traveling for hours to the location to get the ID and hundreds of dollars of fees. So yes it will affect the poor. therefore preventing them from voting. Even if they are Americans and have been voting their whole life. I suppose that there is enough government paperwork, like tax submissions, and other official government documentation that proves their citizenship. There is a joke about the government needing more and more documents when someone wanted to get their passport. They asked him for his address and city of residence and other information that he assumed that they already knew about him. He commented back, that if he went into Radio Shack once, 10 years ago, they still had his address, phone and what he bought. If they can do it, then why not the government? There are a lot more citizens of the USA that do not have photo ID, then there is people that voted fraudulently,. ………………………………………………….You also mentioned: ” I dont have HARD EVIDENCE of voter fraud because the best way to catch it was suppressed by the Obama administration” Since the voting is managed by the states and the states that were proposing these new voter IS systems were all Republican led states, I am not sure of the magic power that Obama has to be able to suppress the data of voter fraud. This data is controlled by the states. A more probable reason is that there is not that much voter fraud. But on the other hand, preventing thousands of people from voting by the new voter laws is a much more serious obstruction. It is similar to when an innocent person is jailed falsely, versus letting a real criminal go free, because there is not sufficient evidence to charge them. It is a much more heinous wrong to falsely incriminate an innocent person. This is similar to what is happening here.
            Then there is hard evidence that the intent of these voter ID laws was to suppress the vote. A previous Florida Governor Crisp (sp) told the news media that they were approached by the GOP party to actually do that. Also there is an Ohio congressman, I cannot remember his name, that said that “Voter ID law in Ohio would insure a Romney win, done!”. My quote is not verbatim, but the gist is there.
            No evidence of voter fraud but hard evidence that the GOP party was initiating these laws to suppress the democratic vote. It is like black vs white.

          • Frank Kahn

            At one time, on a different subject, I tried to be nice and show you the ERRORS in your ATTEMPTS at LOGIC. I will not make that mistake again.

            You FAILED to provide anything REMOTELY resembling PROOF of any FACTS in this post. Your OPINIONS on the INTENT of the NEEDED voter ID laws are not VALID.

            Your HYPERBOLE statements about the DIFFICULTY and EXPENSE of obtaining PHOTO ID’S is PATHETIC.

            The COST of a state ID (WITH PHOTO) , where I live, is about $7 a YEAR, NOT HUNDREDS. HOURS of travel to get the ID? ASSUMING that ALL these POOR DEMOCRATS live somewhere that is HOURS from any state office capable of providing said ID, these POOR DEMOCRATS, have 4 YEARS to get their ID before the next election.

            There is a LOGICAL need for PHOTO ID’S to be used in verifying the ACTUAL IDENTITY of the person VOTING. I stated the reasoning behind that statement previously, you FAILED to, in any way, REFUTE my reasons. MY REASONS have no connection to any attempt at VOTER SUPPRESSION, and any attempt at saying it does is WRONG.

            You said:
            “You also mentioned: ” I dont have HARD EVIDENCE of voter fraud because the best way to catch it was suppressed by the Obama administration” Since the voting is managed by the states and the states that were proposing these new voter IS systems were all Republican led states, I am not sure of the magic power that Obama has to be able to suppress the data of voter fraud.”

            Now, I am not sure why you failed to include the reason I gave for that statement, I do know that MAGIC had nothing to do with it. Nor, did the fact that the STATES PROPOSING THEM WERE ALL REPUBLICAN LED, have any relevance. The Obama administration forced those states to remove the voter ID requirement from their rules. AND THAT, NICK, IS HOW OBAMA REMOVED the ONLY possible way that ATTEMPTED VOTER FRAUD could have been PROVEN.

            I dont like to repeat myself, but to CORRECT your OBVIOUS problem with READING COMPREHENSION, I have repeated my supporting argument for how Obama PREVENTED the ABILITY to DETECT voter FRAUD.

            And, since my post was not directed at actual voter fraud or voter suppression, I dont feel a need to address your PATHETIC attempt at diverting the focus of the post to some worthless debate on what some republican said about his/her views on the effects that VOTER ID’S would have on the outcome of an election.

          • Nick Czudy

            Frank, Frank, Frank, You are rapidly showing that you are the mayor of [expletive deleted]
            The whole excuse that the GOP Governors and their respective sec, of states were making were based on previous elections. They said that because of widespread voting fraud, they had to implement these new voter ID protections. The problem for the GOP was that there was not much voter fraud that had occurred. It was all a smoke screen.
            Here is a link to one of many videos on You tube that shows the GOP house leader, bragging to a closed audience that they implemented the Voter ID law to give Mtt the win.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o32tF-S6K60&feature=fvsr

            You said….”I have repeated my supporting argument for how Obama PREVENTED the ABILITY to DETECT voter FRAUD.” The major problem with all of the GOP state voter suppression was that it was being brought in a few months prior to the election. The state offices were not set up to handle all of the people that would need ID and also it was too late prior to the election for the citizens to be able to get their ID’s in time. I think that for the next election, that is two years away, there should be no problem as there is 3 years for someone to get their photo ID.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypRW5qoraTw

            This link was from a video from Sarah Silverman as it is funny, but she covers all of the points in the voter oppression. You GOP will all hate this one. It is funny, One has to have a sense of humor. If you have been living under the bubble you may not have seen this.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEtdDqVUPg8&feature=colike

            This link has a good story about Fox’s coverage of this issue and covers all of the issues.
            Where you say that it is cheap and easy to get the voter IS card, for people without a vehicle and to pay for and go and get the two pieces of ID like a birth certificate do have a higher price tag to get. Some places charge $150.00 to get a birth certificate. So these are not my opinions but real facts.
            the logic that you seem to have conceded to, in your argument is assumptions that what you hear under the bubble are logical facts. that is the problem with most of the GOP and right wing thinking. It seems that fact and science are not as important as ideology and hearsay. Warm regards.

          • Frank Kahn

            The only bubble I live under it the one created by the atmosphere. I did not use anything from anywhere in the right wing BUBBLE. I gave facts from where I live, from MY experience. I have never been required to use my Birth Certificate when getting a drivers license. I did have to use my PHOTO ID to get food stamps though. In this state it cost $12 to get a copy of your Birth Certificate. I can not, and do not presume to know the cost of birth certificates or ID’s in every state in this country.

            I also, attempted, to make it perfectly clear that the opinions and statements of members of the GOP about VOTER ID’S was not germane to the discussion.

            I am sure that there is little if any documented “in person” voter fraud. I am also certain that such would be impossible even if 20% of the voters were committing it. Under the current system (without PHOTO ID), if I knew where you are registered to vote, I could cast a ballot in your name with nobody knowing the difference.

            I realize that you are not mentally capable of understanding what a hypothetical situation is, but that is what I am talking about. Actually, with current technology, I could actually get a state PHOTO ID with your name on it and vote as you. I REALLY HOPE YOU TRY TO CLAIM THAT MY STATEMENT IS INSANE OR STUPID. I CAN PROVE THIS ABILITY BY CITING INSTANCES OF IT ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

            Oh, and I noticed you tried to say something unacceptably derogatory about me. shame shame.

          • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

            Not in Washington. We vote by mail, and only one ballot goes per person. The registrar of Voters in my county actually makes sure of who we are, and if there is any question she calls or writes. But only to my registered address.

            I just started a petition on the White House petitions site, We the
            People. Will you sign it? http://wh.gov/5ksN

          • Frank Kahn

            Before I could sign such a petition, I would need to know the intent of the creator of the petition. I know your feelings on this subject, so I have a fairly good idea of the intent. It is a totally politically motivated and biased petition. It serves only to tell Obama “Good job, let the public know they have to pay for everything you want.” It is biased in that, it puts forth the democrats idea that we have no say in what our money is spent on. It tells Obama to exert more political pressure to suppress our right to object. It is in favor of more taxes. The government pays for nothing.

            I think you should re-read the supreme court case ruling that you site in your petition. I read it when you posted a link before. That case was regarding the government paying a sovereign the money owed. In more simplistic language, it was forcing the government to pay a CITIZEN the true value owed him (guaranteed by the constitution) by the US government.

            So, no tlgeer, I will not sign your petition in support of higher taxes to pay for a deficit that is caused by unconstitutional spending by our government. If, instead, you were to start a petition to demand they work on spending cuts at a level that would balance the budget, I would jump on board immediately.

          • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

            “That case was regarding the government paying a sovereign the money owed. In more simplistic language, it was forcing the government to pay a CITIZEN the true value owed him (guaranteed by the constitution) by the US government.”

            It doesn’t matter what the case was about. What matters is what SCOTUS said about Congress paying for what it already passed.

            As for my petition, you obviously haven’t bothered to read it.

          • Frank Kahn

            I read it, it just said that the great and mighty Obama should INFORM us LOWLY COMMONERS that WE HAVE TO PAY for HIS ABUSES OF SPENDING.

            Did I miss anything?

  • pissed off and liberal

    Considering that the rich wrecked the ecomomy with ther blind greed and fund corrupt and oppresive politicians i would say that the poor have a right hate the rich. And isn,t it a bit hypcritical of conservitives to accuse liberals of pitting americans against each other? I mean after all who supports spying on muslims? Who encorigies chrishten fundimentilists to burn down abortion clinics and hate the lgbt community. Who blames all americas problems on illegal immergrents even though we are all decended from immergrents? Seems to me that liberals are ” we are one ” to the conservitives ” i,m better then you ” .

  • http://yahoo Rocco

    First, Ben Crystal seems to be a big ass hypocrite. If he doen’t see it, then he is an even bigger hypocrite. Second, you people sure love the sound of your own voices don’t you? Because most of you are just trying to make your digs and talking points and not letting in what the other side has to say. This is why we can not get anything done.
    Jeremy Leochner, I have enjoyed reading your posts, you write my thoughts so much better than I could.

    • Kate8

      Rocco – From what I see, you are just another liberal locked into liberal mindset, choosing to ignore the facts in favor of your ideology.

      You don’t appear to listen anymore than those you accuse of same.

  • Marilyn

    Thomas Sowell wrote The Vision of the Anointed and another one about how the liberals (socialists) think they are right and the conservatives are evil. Very good books.

  • SJJolly

    LIberals hate conservatives? Judging by what Ben Crystal wrote, above, and by the writings of many right-wing conservative commentors, MUCH more hate flows the other direction.

  • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

    Ben, Your whole article is full of hate. How is this any different from what you are claiming the so-called liberals do?

  • Deerinwater

    Ben Says; “They call FOX News “faux news.” I prefer “Foxed News” ~ while not my self a liberal ~ but not a today’s conservative either.

    “They whine about Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck in terms that generally involve the sort of language that used to earn me dinner at the Bar of Soap Saloon.” I haven’t a clue what you are willing to say for a free meal. ~while again not a liberal

    “Recently, their beloved Democratic Party super-donor Bill Maher even invited Hannity to commit suicide.” Bill Maher is incorrigible and can be a naught boy sometimes, ~ Like Rush, Bill is a political entertainer and he says as much.

    “Liberals don’t just hate conservatives; they loathe them with every twitching, twisted fiber of their beings. ” The liberal that I know don’t hate ~ they refuse to allow someone to have that much control over them and that forgiveness is Gods commandment. Love the sinner, and hate the sin. Forgive your transgressors, if you can not learn to forgive, how might one expect forgiveness.

    This is fun! let’s see what else Ben says, hang on let me pull up some more~~ Oh! this is rich!

    Ben says; “Of course, liberals are defined by their white-hot hate.” Opposition is now being label hate? I say; ~ By whom? Liberals or Ben?

    Ben says, “Their whole movement is based on pitting Americans against each other.”

    ~ I say , Movement?The progressive movement was stated in 1890, progressivism is the term applied to a variety of responses to the economic and social problems rapid industrialization introduced to America. Progressivism began as a social movement and grew into a political movement. The early progressives rejected Social Darwinism. In other words, they were people who believed that the problems society faced (poverty, violence, greed, racism, class warfare) could best be addressed by providing good education, a safe environment, and an efficient workplace. Progressives lived mainly in the cities, were college educated, and believed that government could be a tool for change. Social reformers,

    Ben say; ” Liberal believe, that the poor should hate the rich. The weak should hate the strong” .

    I say; This is what we might expect uneducated people to think and why the progressives felt that education was the way to toward upward mobility and avoid such misplaced thinking as the hating of others, Education equals Opportunity ~ Education opens once closed doors.

    Ben say; “The black should hate the white.”

    I say, ~ Where Black “should or should not” hate is unclear. After being taken from their family for a nice boat ride over rough seas in a leaky wooden ship in a dark hole full of rats, lice, bilge water and urine, chain by their ankles to be sold like livestock might have some bearing on matters of any one Black’s personal affection for Whites . I think that I’d be pissed.

    Ben says; “And opinions that differ from their own are not merely incorrect, they’re deplorable, racist and even criminal.”

    I say, So who is writing this protest of differing opinion? I thought that it was Ben Crystal expressing disbelief in liberals differing opinions?

    Ben says; “Nonetheless, while Williams, Gregory and even Kathie Lee Gifford and Hoda Kotb actually consider themselves real bastions of journalism”

    I say, ~ I was not aware that Kathy Lee Gifford considered herself a journalist at all and I’m not familiar with those other people that you mention. But Kathy is a darling whatever she is. ~ I like her! Wished she was mine!

    Ben say “But their opinions are different. Indeed, a perusal of left-wing hate speech sites like Dailykos and media outlets like Current TV reveals that liberals don’t consider their opinions to be opinions at all. Instead, there are opinions, and then there are Democratic talking points; and the latter are actually facts.”

    I say, ~ You are beginning to lose me Ben, ~ of course democrats opinions differ among themselves. ~ We honor and uphold the right too descent and respect the autonomy of the individual. While opinions are opinions and facts are facts , ~ irregardless of who offers them.

    Ben goes on to attack MSNBC and staff writers claiming it being the Democratic channel and offering little positive coverage of Mitt Romney along with his usual person attack of appearance.

    I say; ~ Great Ben! about time you venture out and listen to other points of view. Attack all you want. ~

    Just be mindful MSNBC deals with objective hard news and commentary and accept accountability for it being factual and objective ~ while Fox News offers objective hard news (with omission) ~ where as of October 11, 2009 New York Times article, Fox articulated that its hard-news programming runs from “9 a.m. to 4 pm and 6 to 8 pm on weekdays” and “[is] objective”; however, it makes no such claims for its other broadcasts, which primarily consist of editorial journalism and commentary.

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      Very well said, Deer.

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