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Organization lists tax hikes proposed in healthcare reform plan

September 18, 2009 by  

Organization lists tax hikes proposed in healthcare reform plan Only two days have passed since the Senate Finance Committee unveiled its healthcare bill proposal, and Americans for Tax Reform (ATF), an organization that opposes all tax increases, has prepared a list of tax hikes that could be enforced if the bill passes.

Because the plan includes a mandate for all Americans to obtain insurance coverage, ATF says workers who do not sign up will have to pay a tax of between $750 and $3,500 depending on their status and income.

In addition, employers will be taxed at the rate of $400 per employee if they do not offer health coverage.

The plan also provides for a 35 percent excise tax on high-cost health insurance plans, meaning those whose premiums exceed $21,000 for families and $8,000 for singles. Moreover, it would eliminate tax breaks such as the deduction for employer-provided retirement prescription drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D.

In recent months, ATF has been focusing on exposing President Obama’s apparent failure to keep his campaign promise not to raise any taxes on Americans making less than $250,000 a year.
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Spencer Cameron

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  • s c

    Comrade obama needs a master list of filthy rich ultralibs who are willing to fund his health care ‘reform’ package. Let them fund it for 3 years. At the end of that time, we’ll compare notes on what was supposed to happen and what really happened. When the ultralibs get out of the hospital (heart attack, stroke, mental breakdown, drug abuse, suicide, etc.), we can show them how to do it right and rely on the truth instead of lies and more lies.
    Of course, this will never happen, but it should. After all, if what comrade obama wants is so good for the country, then he and all of his zombies can practice what they preach – and learn the hard way about the many differences between common sense and theories that feel good but don’t work [even now, ultralibs are wondering what's wrong with comrade obama. some of his backers realized that new taxes ARE built into his health care 'reform' scam]. Comrade obama’s much-touted ‘transparency’ just won’t go away, will it?

    • hopeforamerica

      TO: SC; There are several versions floating around in Congress right now. Nobody likes Baucus’s bill, and the house bill has some good things and the Senate bill has some good things in it too. However, you are WRONG about “ultralibs”. Liberal Dems want to cut the penalty rate in Half. And we all want a Public Option!!!! It’s the only way to make the insurers competitive.

      • Richard Pawley

        People are dying because of the inadequacies of our health care system in this country (I am told) but not as many as will be dying if we get a public option. I AM ONE OF THOSE WHO THINK IT WOULD BE A CRIME TO HAVE GOVERNMENT, IN THE NAME OF HEALTH SAVINGS, OFFICIALLY BEGIN TO DECIDE WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES – AND TO IMAGINE, THAT WE ALONE, OF ALL THE NATIONS ON EARTH, WHO HAVE GOVERNMENT DICTATED “HEALTH CARE” WILL BE THE ONLY ONE WHO WILL NOT HAVE TO DO THIS IS THE HEIGHT OF ARROGANCE, NO MATTER WHAT CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT CALL IT. American’s are already going to be poor based on what Congress has already spent. Don’t people realize that inflation is a hidden tax? Congress has guaranteed between 225 and 300% inflation based on all their ridiculous spending. This coming regardless of what the talking heads on TV tell you! I said do in “THE LAST DAYS OF THE LATE GREAT UNITED STATES and I suggest you print this out and put it on your refrigerator so you will remember, you were warned. The dollar is toast or nearly so. I do not believe it will even exist in ten or twelve years so valueless it will be. Congress is the one who passes the Bush/Obama spending hikes although Obama is making Bush seem like a piker but neither of them could have spent those TRILLIONS if Congress hadn’t accepted the lobbying and voted for SPEND, SPEND, SPEND. 36,000 HIGHLY PAID LOBBIESTS LIVE OFF OF PERSUADING CONGRESS TO SPEND, SPEND, SPEND. Besides, if you want health you cannot eat what Americans eat. Cubans have good health because they only eat locally farm grown foods and Michael Moore should have known that. They can’t afford anything else and I even heard one Democratic Congresswoman praising Castro because he got rid of all the rich. Well, rich is going to be anyone in this country who earns over $50,000 a year. The lie that we are the richest country in the world is going to destroy us. We are more in debt than any country has ever been in the history of the world. Why bother with just free health care, why not free college, and free homes for the homeless. I read that there are 18,000,000 vacant homes in the US now. But what crazy foreigner is going to loan us the money to do all this. NO ONE! So we will just print money and spend it until we go into the dust bid of history. Russian Think-Tanks have already come to the conclusion that the USA is going to break up into five smaller countries after the dollar is destroyed. I hope not but yesterday the government rewrote the history books by dumping a new record of $43 BILLION in new US Treasury bonds on the market in a single day. Today and Friday, Geithner will be borrowing another $69 BILLION to keep things going. Call me old fashioned but I can remember when that would be all the government would borrow in AN ENTIRE YEAR. Some believe that Congress cannot be so stupid that they don’t realize they are causing hundreds of percent inflation in the not to distant future as a result of all this spending. Others believe the intent of all this is to crash the dollar and change the Republic into a full fledged Brave New World, a state where the individual is nothing and of no consequence. Already 180,000 a year die in hospitals by accident or mistake, and some don’t believe that is accidental as it saves the government millions. I want nothing to do with health insurance, government run or privately run. If the Democrats and Republicans really cared a wit about people they would let health insurance companies operate in all states instead of passing laws to protect their profits and keeping them out of various areas. Then we would have competition. The public plan will destroy competition and prices will eventually be much higher if it passes. 46% of doctors surveyed have said they would consider retiring or doing something else if it passes and I know of one dad who has already persuaded his son NOT to go into medicine. Yes, we will soon have the rotten health care of many foreign countries if it passes but that will not affect me unless they fine me (A TAX) because I don’t go their route. Why did Obama agree with the drug companies to keep paying their outrageous prices rather than bargain with them? A four dollar drug that they charge $89 for is far more of an obscene profit than the oil producers make (and some drugs are far more profitable than that). In 1965 health only consumed 5% of our GDP and now it is around 15% and we are not three times healhier, we are worse. Oil and gasoline certainly don’t consume 15% of our Gross Domestic Product. Drugs is where the big money and profit is but anyone who eats what everybody eats will get the diseases everybody gets. I even refused Medicare because it is almost bankrupt and I’d rather spend my money staying well. Most doctors wouldn’t take chemotherapy if they got cancer and a high percentage of them are surely not going to take the highly profitable swine flu shots. In 1970 Caesarian births were 5% of all births but by 1990 this had risen to 25% as government got involved. I could give many more examples. I feel sorry for some of the people writing here. If they get their government handouts in health care they will live to rue the day or maybe they won’t. They are like lost sheep. Thomas Paine said that “…government, even in it’s best state, is but a necessary evil,” and I recall that Hitler was once a German democrat who believed in the German Social Security and govenrment run health care that he grew up with. He believed in helping people before he came to power. As a child I was fascinated by a German woman who had married an American soldier after the war and still thought Hitler was a great man who had done a lot for his country. Even as a ten year old I did not think Hitler was to be admired. I agree with Howard Katz who has written: “A recent Supreme Court has ruled that a terminally ill cancer patient was prohibited from trying an alternative cancer treatment because, in the Court’s opinion, it would raise false hopes. In what sense is this not murder, and in what sense are the Supreme Court justices and Government officials who imposed this decision not murderers? For another example, Dr. Stanislaw R. Burzynski of Houston, TX has been doing very good work with cancer patients via a technique he discovered called neoplasms. But the Government has ruled that no patient can go to him unless that patient submits to chemotherapy first. The patient’s desire on this matter is not considered by the Government”. Some believe that those who force government run health care on their populations are murderers even if they are pretending it’s for their own benefit. I hope and pray it doesn’t pass and if it does that all those who voted for it are kicked out of office ASAP. May God help us all from an out-of-control government.

  • eyeswideopen

    Well, I am glad that we will not be funding IBM 400 million for their retired employees. Private profitable companies should never receive subsidies from the government period. I can’t believe that Republicans voted for this damn bill in the first place.

    • Jack Kinch(1uncle)

      Campaign contributions?

      • eyeswideopen

        Jack see link left for Richard.

  • Ed Devine

    Ostensibly, these ‘fines’ for failure to insure are to compensate healthcare providers for those who recieve treatment with the benefit of an insurance policy. Does this mean that ‘paying the fine’ allows one access to ‘healthcare’? Or, does it simply compound insult and injury by sucking the funds needed to pay for one’s treatment out of one’s pocket? Obviously, young, healthy adults adults probably don’t spend anywhere near three grand a year on medical treatments, nor I daresay do most households with one or two small children if the parents are actively involved in raising the children. Also, these ‘fines’ will doubtless be assessed for each ‘infraction’, so a person who can’t afford health insurance (obviously a great deal more than $3500 per year, even for healthy individuals) could be ‘dinged’ for these fines multiple times during the course of a year, denying them the funds not only necessary to see a doctor, but perhaps the money it takes to feed and cloth themselves and keep a roof over their head. I pull down a little more than $50 K take home a year, and as a healthy single male, my individual healthcare insurance costs me more than $500 per month with a $3000 deductible and a maximum out of pocket of $3000, so I’m out $6000 before I even start benefiting from a health insurance policy that costs me $6000 per year to begin with. It’s the rare year when my actual medical costs even impinge of the insurance provider. Fines be damned, I can see that a substantial number of people in my situation might benefit from foregoing health insurance entirely. Then there’s the problem that many already see, that health care providers are choosing to forego accepting ‘insurance payments’, as well as ‘medicare and medicaid’ payments, opting for ‘cash up front’. One cannot argue that such policies allow Doctors to ‘manage their costs’, their profits and losses, far better than those accepting insurance. medicare and medicaid. Then consumers are confronted with submitting and waiting for reimbursement, just like the doctors, clinics and hospitals. And then just wait until consumers realize that they are being reimbursed for only half of what they submitted for payment.

    • American Citizen

      The doctors won’t like the government plan because it is so slow in paying claims. That’s partly why some don’t accept Medicare and Medicaid now. Plus the fact it doesn’t pay the full charges. The government plan won’t charge the clients up front, but we’ll pay in other ways so it’ll come out equal. That’s not mentioning it’s unconstitutional to start with and containing loss of personal freedoms

      • Gerald of Westland

        sorry…they have to accept medicare,but not medicaid

      • Gerald of Westland

        Obimbo and company claim under the ‘Welfare’ Clause they can do health care….All the people that died from smoking: lung cancer,COPD,etc,WHERE WAS THE “WELFARE’CLAUSE THEN AND NOW? The gov sued the tobacco people and settled out of court.Then the States sued and settled out of court.Both federal and state law ban the citizen from sueing as part of the out of court settlement. It’s all about the money…if the government was so concerned about money why did they pass the 787 mil package? And now claim the health care is all about saving money..garbage.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          And just where did all this money go? I know I was a smoker then, and attempted to get the state to pay for a hynotist, or the patch, or the pills to attempt to quit smoking, but they wouldnt pay for it. So I attempted to inquire as to what they are using all these millions for that each state got, and couldnt get an answer. I have since then quit, by way of 3 years of daily prayer, but its a shame that in the name of fighting tobacco, the money was just that, money, and not used to fight getting people to quit smoking. You are right, all they do, is all about money. However, if they would leave the big businesses and small business alike alone, and stop taxing the crap out of them, these companies would have more revenue, would hire more people, would expand more, and would be paying more money into the tax coffers via income tax on all the new workers. And all those new workers in turn would be paying taxes, and spending money at the stores and such, and its a win win situation. Unfortunately, the Democratic party doesnt see it that way, and jacks up the taxes everytime they come around, and millions start losing their jobs. They like to put Clinton on pedestal, but he upped taxes at record levels when he was in there, and left the economy in shambles when he left office.

          • eyeswideopen

            Beberoni, here in Fl, they are using the smokers fund to try and balance our budget. They also increase the taxes on the nasty sticks to 1.50 per pack.

          • JeffH

            Is it fair to continue to tax cigarettes? NO! Ban them! That is ALWAYS the answer…

    • bbstacker

      And the core issue of the decline in American medical personnel from the doctors to the orderly will implode from the weight of “gov’t mandated obamascare”. So, then what, import foreign docs and staff to provide our medical care. Good luck with that plan and observance of the Hippocratic Oath. Anything that BO says is exactly the opposite, so this is NOT in keeping with Freedom and Liberty in choice among the Citizens. What say I just want to pay cash for my checkups and minor medical procedures? What say I find a Dr. who works out the details between us as patient and Medican Man? Am I supposed to feel good about paying a penalty because I find another route to pay my medical professional for their services and avoid the “feral” government all together? Call me stupid, but that pisses me off to take away my independence and personal responsibility. Oh, that’s right, idiots like Pelosi are so much more adept at deciding my fate and what’s best for me.

      • Rod

        I’ll tell you a secreat, these criminals are not interested in our
        health!

        • John

          Rod
          You are correct it’s a power grab.
          I like my healthcare the way it is but it’s really not about that.
          I’ve worked hard and I’ve paid my taxes since I was 13yrs old, I am 55 yrs. old now.
          I also have two college degrees.
          I think I’ve EARNED my right to have a say in the type of healthcare that I want.
          Conversely, healthcare is a small part of the real big picture as you’ve pointed out.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Of course she is, and on top of that, she wants to tax the crap out of you to pay for those who dont want to work, so that they can have coverage also.

  • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

    I still like the Canadian system, far better than what is even being proposed. It is paid for by sales tax. NO premiums, NO pre-conditions, NO waiting for emergency care. My wife had a heart attack, similar to one 10 years ago at 7.45pm on a Friday. She was treated within 5 mins of going into emergency. The blood sample was analyzed by the lab withing 5 minutes of it being taken, the lab employee came in after a call. At 11.30pm my wife was moved to ICU and at 2.00am 3 cardiologists performed angioplasty. She was discharged 4 days later and has since had blood tests every two days, with the results at her doctor’s office within 4 hours. She has seen a local cardiologist twice since with a stress test performed yesterday. This all in a 3 week period. The total cost to us so far is ZERO and that with a pre-condition. Whatever lies you are being told by the Rpublicans are just that LIES. And they know it. If I had to pay what Ed Devine pays and he is healthy, I would be bankrupt. Universal health care is not communism, and the costs in Canada are half what they are in USA. Same goes for the cost of drugs. Somebody is getting ripped off.

    • American Citizen

      Don’t kid yourself, there are plenty of Canadians unhappy with UHC. Otherwise our border hospitals and doctors wouldn’t be busy with Canadian patients. UHC has to be paid for somehow. People who think they’re getting something for nothing are paying for it in other ways.

      • John

        Exactly I know Canadians who come to the US for healthcare and they are NOT happy with their insurance. I also know an American that lives in Canada but had to come to the US twice to give birth to her two children. The Canadian system would not cover her because she was not Canadian despite being married to a Canadian.
        And my neighbor is a controller for a hospital group; according to her this healthcare reform being proposed by Obama “will have a devastating effect on our healthcare”.
        You don’t get something for nothing. There’s no quid pro quo here just a loss of doctors and health care.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        And it also seems, that the Canucks and people in other countries with socialized medicine, they flock to the U.S. to have surgeries done and pay for it. Gee, I wonder why that is?

    • kpgrad98

      Graeme B,

      Why are you even responding to questions regarding U.S. healthcare? You are Canadian, so this does not affect or apply to you. If you are happy with your Socialized care, fine! We in the U.S. like our freedoms and choices. If the U.S. also goes to Socialized care, good luck to your Canadian buddies coming to the U.S. for medical treatments.

      • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

        I am responding to this debate because of the untruths being put forth by “authorities” in the US media. I have choices of doctors and specialists as well as freedom to be treated. The media takes one or two disgruntled people (not hard to find, they would complain about a wait in supermarket lineup) and paint the whole system with the same brush. All I’m saying is, you are being LIED to”

        • Joe W.

          With all due respect, Graeme B., your first mistake in deducing your conclusion about the proposed healthcare reform bill is by listening to our mainstream media. Whether it be print, TV or radio the media has a well recogonized reputation of standing on the left side of the line. Even through latest impartial, non-partisan polls have shown the American people distrusting the mainstream news as responsible journalism.
          Your second mistake is that unless you have personally read the health reform bill as I have and unless you know how to interpret Washinton double speak, you, Graeme B., are lying to yourself and doing no one any justice by spreading untruths yourself.

          • eyeswideopen

            Joe, what non-partisian poll have you dug up? Do you think that Fox is non-partical?? Heh Heh.

        • Rod

          excellent observation!

        • hopeforamerica

          GO Graeme B!! Nice to hear from the True skimmy for a Real Canadian.
          Thanks Graeme! About a month or so ago I watched an interview on
          C-Span with Canada’s top health care director. Sorry… don’t remember his name. He along with several Canadian callers raved about Canada’s Single payer system. Canada spends Half of what we spend here in the U.S., and they cover Everybody no matter what the problem!
          People in Canada Don’t go bankrupt because of medical bills. Most Canadians Don’t know the meaning of a “co-pay”. There are NO deductable, No Pre-existing conditions, No Caps on care. Those who have to wait longer for certain procedures are usually Elective or Non-critical. For instance, the TV ad where a Canadian woman was upset because she had to wait longer to have a BENIGN brain tumer removed. She didn’t want to wait, so she went to the U.S.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            And they pay 52 percent of their income in taxes to pay for this crap. I really dont need to be taxed that much more. No thank you.

          • Smilee

            Beberoni says:
            September 24, 2009 at 10:00 am

            Add up your all your taxes, fed, state, local, sales, property etc. and you will find you do to and your taxes probably does not pay your medical, we pay more total, (both taxes + health care combined than they do) our government is much more inefficient that most others because we have so many collecting taxes, duplication of taxes

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          And I myself, who have made many trips to Canada, and have met and fished for weeks at a time with Canadian citizens who have lived there all their lives, and Ive yet to meet one that tells me that socialized medicine is good. On the contrary, every one of them has told me that we dont want it here, that it will screw up everything. So I for one, choose to listed to what comes out of the horses mouth. Anyone can say anything here, but when Ive personally talked to those who have been exposed to it and live it, I choose to believe what they tell me. I heed their warning sir.

          • Smilee

            Sorry, I do not believe you, know a whole bunch of Canadians and note tell me this, birds of a feather flock together, so I suppose you only talked to government haters like yourself up there and every country has a few and they usually distort reality.

    • PGOofTexas

      If your story is true(?), why are so many Canadians still coming to the US?

      • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

        People are going to US for care because they don’t want to wait for hip or knee replacement operations (discretional) This story is true, just lived it. Do you have to wait for these operations. Why are US citizens still coming North for drugs made by US companies in Canada?

        • eyeswideopen

          Touche’

          • hopeforamerica

            TO: EyesWideOpen; You do know the meaning of “discretionary”, right?
            Means NON-critical, Not an emergency, the are simply elective procedures. Canadians can have these Elective procedures, but they may have to wait a little longer.

            I’d take the Canadian Health System over the U.S. Health care system anyday !! Hey, can Americans have dual citizenship with Canada???

          • eyeswideopen

            Hope, I was making comment on the fact that ” we go to Canada for our drugs” what is your problem?

        • American Citizen

          Canada makes deals with the drug companies that they will only pay so much or not import the drugs. We in this country have to make up that difference, just as those who have insurance make up for those who don’t.

          • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

            This is called putting “cap on spending”, the same as public option would produce honest competition amongst drug and insurance companies. Where do they get their huge profits?. They are no more ethical than the Wall Street crowd who have almost bankrupted the whole world with their non regulation. Canada did not have a problem with any of the banks because they were regulated and were not allowed to traffic in garbage such as derivatives. The average tax rate in Canada is 29% on salary ranges of 37 to 68,000 plus the sales tax which covers all health as well as infra-structure costs averages 13%. How much does your health premium cost you? How much do your deductibles cost you?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Your not comparing apples to apples. People go north to get medicine because its cheaper, much cheaper. They dont come to the US for surgeries because its cheaper. They come because they dont want to end up lame, crippled, or even dead in Canada waiting to be seen. Like my buddies dad who died of a heart attack because he couldnt get in, but hey, he was on the waiting list.

    • Gerald of Westland

      Is that why your tax is 52% of your pay and you people come to the US and other people from other places in the world come here for medical attention?

      • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

        The tax is not 52%. A person earning $22,000 per annum will still be covered without having to pay a health premium and their tax rate is 17%!!.

        • Honest to Goodness

          Graem, just another example of republican accounting principles. LOL

  • Virgil Rogers

    For every story like Graeme b there are 100 horror stiory about folks in Canada not recieving timely care to the point that they opt to come to America to recieve treatment. I will take the health care that I have and be happy. I certainly do not wannt the government to get into the Health care business and screw it up like thay have done to every other government run program in America today. i.e., Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Post Office and on and on. All of these programs are bankrupt as we speak. Enough is enough is enough.

    • American Citizen

      Those that are not bankrupt have a lot of strings attached.

      • Gerald of Westland

        only program that works now is Food Stamps but of course not everyone can get them.It’s a joke that all the government programs are based on the amount of money one has or hasn’t got? I am retired and after my expenses (car,insurance,credit cards,etc) I have less then my stepson on SSI yet he gets low income housing,food stamps and commodies.The bottom line is he ends up with more then I… Go figure? Obimbo said the Fed X and UPS work fine:it’s the post office that makes mistakes….should we tell him the Post Office is Federal Government or do you think he’ll appoint a czar when he finds out???

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Thank you Virgil, you speak the truth. All of my medical needs are currently met, for myself, my family, my brothers and sisters, and my ederly parents. Sure it could be better, it could be cheaper, but then again, so could a lot of things. If people think we pay a lot now, let the government get ahold if it. We dont need them in this field, they will make a nightmare of it. As for these guys that say we are 37th in health care, I say baloney. They are reading some poll by some left wing wankers that want socialized medicine, and thats all that is. We have the best in the world, and if we didnt, people from all over the world surely would not continually come here for medical treatments. The proof is in the pudding baby.

      • American Citizen

        That 37th ranking was put out by WHO and it had to do with infant mortality, not our healthcare. That’s how the left twists things.

  • Mary

    No use to pay any attention to this bill either.

    It will never pass.

    They need to try pieces first.

    1. Mississippi passed tort reform a year ago and it has saved them over $70 million, so lets pass this the first year.

    2) Whenever a bill becomes final, begin a trial phase in 1 or 2 states only.

    3) Meanwhile, we need to shore up medicare for the elderly as if it wasn’t for them, none of this would be relevant.

    GOD BLESS AMERICA

    • American Citizen

      Indiana is also a state that has done tort reform. The changes needed in insurance reform should be made in the states. Obama and this Democrat Congress are doing nothing but another power grab.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Indiana has a governor, Mitch Daniels, that is on the ball and knows what he is doing. He has the state making money, and knows how to run it as a successful business, while looking out for its people. He has cut the waste, and done great things. The democrats hate him. They dont like leaders that actually do their job and look out for their constituants.

        • American Citizen

          We really like him As yu said, the Democrats in the legislature hate him because he gets things done. They are the ones who are the obstructionists in our legislature.

  • http://cybercorrespondent.blogspot.com cybercorrespondent

    Do you have an antidote for the Obama elixir as prescribed by George Soros and the far left? As shown in this video, I wish we had more congressmen like John Hue Pubic who read what he was asked to sign. Watch -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB6p5QPVhPI, but don’t swallow the elixir. After you finish watching the video, ask yourselves these questions.
    Why are the public officials we elleted allowing Obama to shred our Constitution? Do you think Obama should remake the health care system with new federal regulations, mandates and big-government? Do you think that taking money from the productive sector of our society and distributing it to the nonproductive will solve all of our problems? Why is congress and other politicians dooing nothing about the Obama czars and other communist- fashist appointees he chose to assist him in shreding our constitution?
    If the thread I posted doesn’t turn live, copy and past it onto Google.
    Cybercorrespondent
    http://cybercorrespondent.blogspot.com

  • http://Yahoo Dee D

    Hey everybody – Common sense dictates anyone can take any written document distort the words – include their personal opinion to prove any point they choose to make. This also is called propaganda.
    Why has it taken over 40 years for realistic health care for all citizens to be enacted?
    What party always seems to take it off the shelf time and time again to get a resolution passed?
    What party always seems to fight tooth and nail to shelve it for perhaps another 8 to 10 years?
    Why does a lot of Representatives in Washington feel the financiers (blue collar workers and middle class citizens) do not deserve to have the same coverage our tax dollars pay for them?
    By the way I have friends in Canada and for the most part the larger number are pleased with their coverage and not nearly as many as the propaganda mongers want all to believe choose to go elsewhere for treatment.
    Another question to be answered – Who tries to outlaw American citizens the right to go into Canada to purchase medications? Why try to make it illegal? Could it be our pharmaceuticals do not want to lose any money on their pills? They need our money to enlarge their profits so they can pay their dedicated lawyers who represent their interest above the best for the people they are supposed to be representing.

    • Elaine

      DUH DUH YOU’RE AT IT AGAIN GET A CLUE THIS IS NOT ABOUT HEALTHCARE ITS ABOUT TOTAL CONTROL OF EVERY ASPECT OF THE CITIZENRY! WHEN THEY TAKE YOUR PERSONAL INFO AND SEIZE YOUR BANK ACCOUNT,PROPERTY, CHILDREN (CRC) WAKE UP DUH DUH! GET YOU EYE OFF THE SPLAT ON THE WINDSHEILD AND LOOK AT THE ROAD! BEFORE WE ALL WAKE UP IN RED AMERIKA! OR MAYBE YOU WANT THIS TYPE OF GOV????? IF SO GO TO ONE THATS ALREADY ESTABLISHED THERE ARE PLENTY OF THEM AND THEY’VE KILLED ENOUGH OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE I’M SURE THERES ROOM FOR YOU!

      • eyeswideopen

        Can you scream any louder? Elaine, guess what, you don’t get to dictate how people think. One of your leaders is for the New World Order, so maybe you need to stop and think about who you want to throw out of this country.

        • American Citizen

          Eyes, did you hear Obama speak at the UN today? Would you say he’s for a new world order? I would.

          • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

            So were Bush Snr and Bush Jnr

          • Honest to Goodness

            Citizen, i wouldn’t call it a new world order, I think it was notification that we aren’t going to be the patsies for the rest of the world. He was telling them, we will work with you, but don’t expect us to carry the ball alone. He is trying to build respect, not fear, which when you are name calling, doesn’t get the oppostion any impidus to work with you.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          You need to indeed open your “eyes” Your boy Obama doesnt have a clue. Oops, now your going to call me a racist. Ok, your guy Nobama hasnt a clue what he is doing, and either does his party that is pulling his strings. Unlike other people, I wont blame all the ills the democrats are causing on him, because it isnt him, its the democratic party. He is just the figure head. He has no ideas of his own, and no direction of his own. He just blindly follows the dumb advice they are giving him, and it blows up his face time after time after time. Thing is, most people say obama, obama, obama, and it isnt him, its the democratic party. Soon these losers will attempt to save their own hides, and throw this cat under the bus. You watch and see, if your “eyes” can see at all, because you seem to be blinded by your left wing liberal agenda bias. I know you were one of those who cried, and most likely still cry – Bush, Bush, Bush, when those of us who are educated know the President cant do what he wants, only what congress approves of, and in Bush’s case, most of the things you lefties cry about the most, was voted for and approved and put into motion by a democratic congress, so please “eyes”, open your eyes, or at least get educated so youll know whats going on, because its obvious by your comments, that you sir, are in the dark.

          • Honest to Goodness

            Beberoni, I will tell you, just one more time, I am a woman. I know how the system works, and who makes the laws…Congress. I know that the Republican Congress refused to pass Bush’s immigration reform, I know they passed the Medicare Advantage bill against his wishes. I know how things work. I also know that he handed our security over to Cheney and stepped away, for that I hold him responsible. Yes, I realize that Obama, has no power, other than the bully pulpit, and that’s why I can’t understand why all of you are attacking him? He hasn’t tried to hijack the country and subvert the judicial system, hell he hasn’t even tried to passify the gays.. and you are all acting like he is committing the same crimes that Georgie boy did.
            s

      • hopeforamerica

        OMG Elaine! Get Real! Our president is trying to level the playing field for Americans, and fighting big Insurance and all you can spew is the same Crap from Fox, Beck, and Rush. You my dear have fallen hook, line and sinker for the biggest hunk of B.S. right out of the “GOP’s HandBook of Lies and Deceit” the 2009 edition. Actually, the GOP stole one of it’s Chapters from the History books… the days of McCarthy. They know there are people like you who may not be very educated and/or are very gullible. They know just how to manipulate you into doing they main objective which is getting re-elected as they fill they pockets hundreds if not millions of dollars of Big Insurance Company and Pharma Company Contributions!

        • eyeswideopen

          Hope, This whole site is full of fear. you can’t ever get them to say specifically what Obama has done that has taken ” their country away from them, or what freedoms they have lost, or that they like the social programs and don’t want to lose them, nothing, you will get nothing. Except that they hate him and what he is doing. They think he caused the economy’s problems, they think he is responsible for the Patriot act, they think he is growing government. They don’t even address after the medicare act in 2003, more agencies had to be started to monitor all the subsidies,and all the new regulations regarding the medicines. They never address the new agencies like, homeland security, more judicial agencies to monitor all those judges that Cheney didn’t like, educational agencies for No Child Left behind, they just can’t accept that Bush grew the government. The things he did should have made us piss in our pants with fear, but no, when this Pres. is doing anything even remotely similar they freak out claiming he is stealing their country. If they would just look at the dollars spent, the laws that were changed, and the new agencies that were started, along with the freedoms that truly were stolen, they might be able to see that we just came out from under tyranny.

          • David

            Eyes look at what he is planning to do….ie the reason for the 1.7 million people tea party. I didn’t take you as someone who likes being told what to do. Are you a retired auto worker too like Dee who was told what to do her whole life?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            He hasnt taken anything from me, but he would like to raise my taxes and institute more social programs that will take cash from me. Other than that, him, Bush, Cheney, none of them have or can take nothing from me. You see, I refuse to play the victim. He is weakening our country with the dumb things he says and does, but its his party directing him, and the dems have been that way for years. Pacifism always loses and weakens. Everytime, without error. The dems are pacifists. Fact.

          • David

            He is making speeches today telling the world we will eliminate our nukes so Iran won’t build any…RIGHT! So now what happens to Egypt? Do they strike iran first….then Russia helps iran…WW3. Sorry I got off the subject but this is another stupid thing going on.

          • JeffH

            David…hopefully just another lie!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          If you call leveling the playing field, taking my money, (I make 50 grand a year), and giving it to some leech that doesnt want to and wont work, your wrong. The democrats have been doing this for years. Take from the working stiffs and give to the guy sitting on the porch drinking a 40 and smoking cigs all day, because he doesnt need to work, because the government gives him a handout so he can drink 40′s and smoke all day, because he doesnt want to and shouldnt have to work all day, and you guys that do need to pay for him. Give me a break. Level the playing field? Dude, get over being the damn victim will you. I was born poor, raised poor, never went to college, did the military thing, and have worked hard all my life, never having nothing given to me, and never have asked for anything to be given to me. Im doing all right. I want for nothing, I need for nothing. Well, one thing. I want and need for Jesus Christ, and He is here with everyday. But on an earthly level, everything and every opportunity for everyone is there, you just need to apply yourself. Most rich guys, contrary to popular belief, werent born that way. Sure there are some exceptions where they inherited daddys money, like the Kennedy’s, but most rich guys had an idea, took a loan and went into debt, applied themselves and worked at it, and make themselves and their companies a success through hard work and iniative. And left wing liberals like you and the democrats want to demonize them and punish them for it. Why? What ever happened to rewarding success? Ever have one of these so called poor guys on the porch sucking down 40′s all day give you a job? Ever collected tax money from them? Well, other than the liquor store where they buy the 40 ounce bottle at. Come on man. These guys that built these business,s hire people, who all pay taxes, and more money goes into the tax coffers. And you and your democrats are so blind, you want to punish them, take money away, and make people lose jobs, so now we have less. Get off this level the playing field. If a poor boy like me can make it in this world, and afford health care, sorry pal, there isnt any reason why nobody else cant. Get over blaming everyone and everthing for your downfalls. Quit being a victim, and putting the idea into peoples heads that they are a victim and that the big medicine machine and the big business machine and the big oil machine is out to get them. Its not that way, its a left wing lie.

        • David

          Hope, look in the mirror and you will see the epitimy of manipulation. You are so far gone that you feel you need to preach others when it is you that is completely lost. I still have hope for Eyes though…..

    • JeffH

      Why do you Democrat/left wing extremists feel you can create a dictatorship to control peoples lives. Continue to force feed your radical agendas and wait for the end result. It ain’t gonna be pretty.
      Regardless of what your twisted mind thinks, the people in this country will have the final say.

      • eyeswideopen

        Jeff, they probably learned from the republicans how to subvert the will of the people and hijack the Constitution. We are pretty damn good at that. We are also excellent at causing fear and we certainly know how to shut down any responsible conversations about healthcare. We did it in 93, and by God, we will do it in 2009. We only support Big Business, screw the average American. We believe in monopolies who will dictate the market, and because most of our people like Medicare, we will keep that socialist program and fund it until it cripples this country.

        • JeffH

          I AM PISSED OFF! I worked hard for my SS and my Medicare it was something I looked forward to recieving when I retired. I’m sorry, but what is needed is a full on revolution in this country and arrest every politician, past and present, that hasn’t upheld their sworn oath for treason, and disregard for America and the American people. I’m tired of the finger pointing and name calling, racism and pure ignorance that is displayed in every blog on every website I go into. And lord knows I’ve been a part of some of it.
          The right and left mentality is as dumb as those that get in line and march to those drummers. I don’t follow a party because I don’t believe in them anymore. It is just like going to a church. If you believe in god, wonderful! But if all of these so called “christians”
          that don’t subscribe full time to the christian ideas, then you are nothing more than hypocrites! Every Republican and Democrat can go straight to hell!
          Until the people get the government straightened out, watch everything you have worked for, towards go down the crapper.
          Obama don’t care about you and niether hav the ones before him.
          For those that cry Bush and 8 years, you can kiss my arse too.
          All of you with your racist comments, whether you are white, black or a female..I don’t want excuses, I want solutions. I may not have the answers, but I know when this country and it’s peoples mentality is screwed up, and it is screwed up big time.
          The basic answer and cure is to rid ourselves and our country of all the freeloaders and leeches in government NOW!
          Tell them in no uncertain terms that they can kiss their chosen proffesional asses goodbye. There is going to be a new sheriff in town. The American people. GOD BLESS AMERICA! and the rest of the naysayers can kiss it where the sun don’t shine!

          • JeffH

            And another point, don’t think for a minute that both Democrats and Republicans aren’t trying to divide and conquer each other’s supporters. This political game will backfire and there will be a “body count”! (not dead bodies, shortened careers)

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            The left will never offer any solutions my friend, never ever. They will forever sit there with their finger outstretched and yell – Bush-Bush-Bush, and will convince their blind uneducated followers to do the same, always finding someone else to blame, instead of searching for a solution, they become a bigger part of the problem. Been that way since Kennedy.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Get a life man. Please, get a life.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            This “get a life” post was for “eyes”. It got put into the wrong order for somereason, but seriously “eyes”, get a life.

          • JeffH

            no prob on this end

        • JeffH

          Who is the “WE” you are always referring to? Sorry, I forgot that you are the official spokesperson for the Democratic Party.

      • eyeswideopen

        Yep, Jeff, you are right, they found a man hung in a tree in Clay County, Kentucky, He was a part time census taker. You know, one of those Government guys. He also had the sign “FED” on his chest. This is probably the beginning. I can hear hands clapping all over this country. I guess it won’t occur to anyone that he was just trying to do what our Constitution requires.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Got something against Kentucky “eyes”? I think your racist towards southerners.

          • eyeswideopen

            Beberoni, no I have something against cowards who hang people for doing their jobs. Radicals who because they hate the government will kill to make a point.

        • JeffH

          Get your gun out and “jones” by the window wondering if “I’m next”. lol!

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, I mis judged you, you are making a joke about a murder? This tells alot about this country.

          • JeffH

            eyeswideopen … you have misjudged a lot more than that! I won’t make a judgement on “WHO” commited the murder, or the reason, until the Gmen get their man.

        • JeffH

          I do not condone violence against federal employees.

          Quoted from an article on the hanging: “A private group called PEER, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, tracks violence against employees who enforce environmental regulations, but the group’s executive director, Jeff Ruch, said it’s hard to know about all of the cases because some agencies don’t share data on instances of violence against employees.”

          From 1996 to 2006, according to the group’s most recent data, violent incidents against federal Bureau of Land Management and Forest Service workers soared from 55 to 290.

          Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/23/census-worker-hanged-with_n_297114.html

          • eyeswideopen

            Must make you so proud.

          • JeffH

            I am proud of who I am. Are you?

          • JeffH

            eyes…I am sure that every crime was commited by Bush supporters and that every crime was commited by a “republican redneck” because they hate Obama.

    • PGOofTexas

      You have got to be kidding! One of my union brothers swore that we would have the samr health insurance that the President and Congress would have. He, like you is really blue eyed. They won’t be one the health care they want to give us. I wish my insurance were a little cheeper, but otherwise I LOVE what I have. I DON’T WANT what you people say I need. I have seen “government health care”. It almost allowed my wife to die two years before we met, and would not allow her a drug (that our doctor here in the states had and would prescribe again) until she could not breath at all. I told this doctor I wasn’t going to use their National Health Service. I was going to pay cash. I would have gone as high as $1000. Nope, it didn’t fit there guidelines set by bureaucrats.

    • American Citizen

      Unless the document is very specific, as this health care bill isn’t, it can be taken more than one way. Just think what the bureaucrats would do with it.

  • Paul Marsh

    Come on, give me a break. I don’t think anyone making less than $250,000.00 is going to pay over $21,000.00 for medical insurance. I hope no one making more will be dumb enough to pay that much either.

    • eyeswideopen

      Clapping out loud!!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Thing about this is, I dont care if they are making 5 million a year, when they go to the doctor, they shouldnt have to pay anymore that I do or anyone else does. What something costs, is what it costs. I dont think it would be fair to make someone pay more for the same thing just because they make more money. Sorry, thats wrong. And Im a poor boy that thinks this way. Its wrong.

      • David

        You nailed it Berb. Do not hammer the small businesses because they made something good happen. The cost is the cost.

      • American Citizen

        Berb, yes, that kind of thinking should work the other way, too. If a multimillionaire can afford to pay full price for a yacht, why shouldn’t they lower the price to one I can afford when I want to buy one. Shows the screwed up thinking by liberals.

  • Jack Kinch(1uncle)

    When first running for office, Oklahoma’s governor Brad Henry said he would get tort reform. The demo congress wouldn’t go along. When the repubs gained control, first time since 1920 briefly, they passed tort reform. Henry vetoed it. The demo party is still a party of special interests-owned by lawyers mostly.

    • eyeswideopen

      Explain, why we want to impose restrictions on the private market? Oh,I see, if someone loses an arm, leg, eyesight, the most they should get will be 250k. That seems about right. We don’t want to control any other business, cause we believe in the free market, except if you are physcially hurt that’s just too bad and we will dictate what we think you should receive…What happened to the free market that we tout all the time?? Let’s talk out of both sides of our mouths. Reminds me of Teri Shavio, we also wanted her husband to do what we wanted and illegally took it to the Congress to interfere with his rights. Yep, sounds just like us Repubs, we don’t want Government in our lives, unless we are trying to make you do what we want you to do.!!!!!

      • eyeswideopen

        THEN WE WILL HIJACK THE CONGRESS TO TRY AND FORCE YOU TO DO WHAT WE THINK IS BEST!!!!!! Long live hyprocrisy.

      • American Citizen

        Who spoke for Terry Schiavo? She died a horrible death by starvation. Talk about torture.

        • eyeswideopen

          American , her husband, who had the legal right and responsibility to decide his wife’s fate. Would you like us to try and over-ride your husbands decision regarding your care? We can’t keep trying to intercede in peoples personal decisions because we don’t like them. Each person has the right to decide if they want to be kept alive on a ventalator. If that person is’t able to speak, then legally their spouse makes the call. It was a bunch of us hyped up “Christians” trying to force our opinions on a man who was guaranteed by law the right to decide. Thank goodness for the Supreme Court. This situation truly shows how we are hypocrites, we don’t want government in our lives, except when we want to force someone to do what “we” want them too.

          • American Citizen

            And you and others rail about a couple of cases of waterboarding where no one was actually hurt.

          • American Citizen

            It was only her husband who wanted her to die. No one else ever heard her say anything about dying. Her parents were willing to take care of her. All her husband wanted was to marry again (which he did before she died, at least she was living with him). I don’t care what you say, Terry was able to communicate somewhat. She was conscious and died a horrible death which was akin to torture.

          • eyeswideopen

            Well. American, the courts didn’t agree with you thank goodness. But, I’ll be sure to come up to your place and put my two cents in, if the same thing happens to you. Then, I’ll get the Congress involved, and we will just ignore what ever your husband says, because my religion and political party knows better than him.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Yeah, and Terry Shiavo would still be alive today, and maybe fully recovered, but you wackos on the left murdered her, just like you do many innocent babies everyday. You have no conscience, so you shouldnt even be writing here.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Thank you Jack, for speaking the truth. However, be aware that there are left wing wacko’s on this site, especially a dude named “eyeswideopen”, all though his eyes are shut, that will not accept the truth, even if placed directly in from of him on a silver platter. They just cant handle the truth, and for the life of me, I dont know why. I guess its because they are so filled with hate for some reason. Maybe because of associating with other hateful left wing liberals. Thats how they are and what they have become. So sad.

      • David

        Eyes is a she….FYI

      • eyeswideopen

        Beberoni, You are an idiot and I so wish for all of you who think you have the right to interfere with a husband or wife’s decision on medical care, that someone does the same thing to your family. You need to stay the hell out of personal issues. I know you all think only you have the answers, but guess what, you don’t have the legal right to impose your beliefs on anyone…Think that is covered somewhere in those documents you all expound on profusely.

        • American Citizen

          No one has the right to take another’s life. She did not have a living will and no one else ever heard her say what her wishes would be. He could have divorced her and let her parents take care of her. But he was determined she had to die. Why?

      • eyeswideopen

        Bebe, just look below, I can prove Jack is lying… oh no you say

    • eyeswideopen

      Jack,
      here is the governors veto record, and not a thing that you stated is there. Sorry Dude looks like you have your facts a little skewed. http://www.votesmart.org/official_veto.php?keyword=tort+reform+2003&can_id=3360&go2.x=15&go2.4=12

      Another angry Republican.

  • Buckeye

    I hear Hannity and Drugball quote everyday about Obama shredding the constitution and I see others here believe it but no one gives examples. I will give you a direct quote from G.W. Bush on national TV he said “I do not have to go by the constitution because I am the president of the United States and I can do what ever I want to”.

    • JeffH

      Continue to believe Obama isn’t interested in removing portions of the Constitution, but remember, Rome was not built in one day!
      When all is said and done, I hope you can appreciate those that stood up for America and preserved your freedom as much as you appreciate the Obamanation.

    • Elaine

      Blah Blah Blah Bush didit! no one ever does anything themselves anymore! Take some responsibility youself! the demakins and republcrats don’t give a rip about you! You sound like Charlie Browns teachers!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Exactly. Its always Bush’s fault. Even after the pacifist liberals pee their pants and crawl into the fetal position and cry for their mommies, they blame Bush for peeing in their pants. They are a big part of the problem, and they offer no solutions. All they know is what their idiotic leaders have taught them, and that is to be a victim and always blame someone else, instead of standing up and trying to do something positive to make a difference. Instead they point the finger and place blame, and that is all they bring to the table.

        • eyeswideopen

          Berb, you just described the Republicans to a tee. LOL

      • David

        Let’s drop our pants to the world like he did today and give up our nukes. Why can we have them and the middle east can not? Because we have been the world cops for many decades and we will not use them offensively. I can’t believe the crap that spews from his mouth evey day!

        • eyeswideopen

          David, are you saying you want the middle east to have nukes? Holy crap man, you can’t mean that!!

          • David

            How do you deduce that from what I wrote? No we do not want the mid east to have nukes. As long as we have enough WMD to deter….Do you want Israel to attack iran which could start the next WW?

          • eyeswideopen

            David, to quote you”why can we have them and the middle east can not?

    • eyeswideopen

      Buckeye, dude, these people won’t take any responsibility for any Republican policies, Bills, actions, speaches, scandals, they were the perfect administration with a perfect president. I just can’t figure out where so many of them resided during that time frame. Don’t waste your time, they will just call you a: Commie Ho, liberal socialist, Nazi, Lefty loon, marxist,communist and many more lofty titles. But your quote brought back fear that I had,when I realized that he had hijacked this country.

      • John

        George W. Bush wasn’t our most popular President now was he? Poor analogy. Obama is going down as an even less popular President. Ok call me a mobster, Nazi, domestic terrorist….

        • hopeforamerica

          John; Obama is an awesome president. He’s truly for the people and by the people! No other president has initiated or instituted the openess of government or solicited suggestions or dialog from the public.

          • John

            hope,
            Good one! You are being facetious aren’t you?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            And you have been smoking crack for how many days in a row now? Just what has this loser done that is so great? Give billions to GM and Chyrsler, thus bribing the unions for more votes? Escalating welfare and food stamps? Hanging with the racist Rev. Wright, or the dangerous Bill Ayers? Maybe the unscruptulous Rezko? Just what has he done, besides weaken us in the eyes of our enemies, get in bed with terrorist nations, and weaken our military? He is a sorry excuse so far, and I dont see it getting any better. I thought Carter sucked, but at least he just stood there doing nothing. This guy is costing millions of people their jobs, with millions more coming. He and his democrat fools havent a clue, and evidently either do you to make such an asinine statement. Gimme a break man, and please, please, get off the crack. Its killin you. (WORDS REMOVE FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)

        • American Citizen

          He’s awesome all right, awesome in his arrogance and his ability to snooker a lot of mush brained people.

      • JeffH

        you are what you appear to be!

        • eyeswideopen

          Thanks Jeff, that was nice.

          • JeffH

            YW

      • American Citizen

        Eyes, when are you going to stop living in the past and look at what’s happening today? The fact you can find nothing wrong with what’s going on says a lot. All you can do is bash the past administration, but see nothing wrong with what Obama and the Democrats are doing now that will lessen our freedoms. Wake up, you’re walking in your sleep with your eyes wide open.

        • eyeswideopen

          American, do you remember me saying a couple of nites ago, that the hateful talk would end in violence? Well, it did. A 51 yr old, teacher, local director of the Boy Scouts and part time census taker, was found dead, hanging from a tree, with the word “FED” on his chest. This happened in Clay County, Kentucky. Bill Sparksman had moved from Inverness, Fl to be the local director of the Boy Scouts of America in 2003. A retired State Trooper had warned him to be careful as in this area, Clay County, he would be viewed as “THE GOVERNMENT”. I hope and pray that he wasn’t a commentator from this site, who got riled up reading all this hateful talk about the government. I hope all of us pray for his mother and family.

          • JeffH

            Get real and quit the foolish talk…from this site. Do your fear mongering elswhere!

          • eyeswideopen

            Woh, Jeff, you have no comment to make on a census taker being hung with the word “FED” written on his chest? Does that mean it is open season on any government worker? How cold can you be? What’s the matter are you afraid it will be a redneck republican who is responsible for killing? We should be very afraid. Especially when we have no compassion for a hate crime of this type.

          • JeffH

            “ The Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”: these words from FDR’s First Inaugural Address rings so true.
            Cold? Yes! Do I care? NO! Am I going to sleep at nite? YES!

          • JeffH

            Did anyone consider that just maybe some “hillbilly” didn’t like the feds sniffin’ around his still or that it might have been a leftist sacrifice to demonize the right.
            Maybe he had so much guilt from workin’ for the government he hung himself. Until the homicide is solved, no one should attempt tp speculate like a tabloid jounelist and raise the fear factor level!

            A private group called PEER, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, tracks violence against employees who enforce environmental regulations, but the group’s executive director, Jeff Ruch, said it’s hard to know about all of the cases because some agencies don’t share data on instances of violence against employees.

            From 1996 to 2006, according to the group’s most recent data, violent incidents against federal Bureau of Land Management and Forest Service workers soared from 55 to 290.

            Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/23/census-worker-hanged-with_n_297114.html

          • American Citizen

            Come on eyes, there are pockets in this country that despise anything to do with the government. He was warned not to go there and did not heed the warning. I don’t agree with what happened to him, they should find who did it and prosecute them to the fullest letter of the law. But if someone warned me not to go into a certain area, believe you me, I would make tracks away from it.

          • JeffH

            I doubt that Bill Sparksman was a commentator on this site.

        • eyeswideopen

          American, tell me exactly what you think he is taking away from you? I would also like to know the specifics of the lies you think he has told? Instead of making generalized hate statements, tell me why you are so frightened.

          • American Citizen

            Why are you not? Do you not know what Obama wants to do to this country with the help of his cronies in Congress? He said himself, radical change. I for one, like the way things are. I feel safe and love the freedoms we have. But the things Obama is doing and saying make me afraid that it is not going to remain so. Open you ears as well as your eyes (if they’re truly open). I think they’re at half mast as all you can do is look backward.

          • eyeswideopen

            Ah Hah! American YOU CAN’T COME UP WITH ANYTHING CAN YOU? that’s exactly what I thought, you can only state ugly, hateful, things, you can’t come up with one thing!!!!! You prove my point. By the way you just made me $100.00 as I bet with my friend who is monitoring this site for her thesis on hate.
            YOU LIKE THE WAY THINGS ARE??? You are nuts, did you miss the fact that we have roaring unemployment, prices are rising on electric, car insurance. food, gas, water, clothing, cars. hell, just name everything. WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS YOU LIKE YOUR MEDICARE AND YOU DON’T WANT ANYONE ELSE TO HAVE IT, AS YOU THINK YOU WILL LOSE SOME OF YOUR BENEFITS… HAH AHAH You hang on to that SOCIALIST GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE PROGRAM WITH BOTH HANDS.
            I thought you were one of those who didn’t like our immigration policy? You like that?. You said you didn’t like the election process. But now you like that?

          • eyeswideopen

            OH MY GOD, AMERICAN YOU SAID YOU FEEL SAFE?? With Obama in office and you feel sagfe? UNBELIEVEABLE.

        • eyeswideopen

          American , please tell me how? Without generalizing please just give me one morsal of you thinking process. Inquiring minds want to know!!

          • American Citizen

            I should have said I felt safe until this Administration. He is dismantling the things that kept us safe for 8 years. Tell me the hateful things I have said. I have not bashed the past administration as you do. Talk about hate! You misread posts also. That’s why i said you have a comprehension problem. Obama wanting to take over the healthcare system is unconstitutional and that seems to be all right with you. Now, where is the hate speech in this post? You seem to think speaking the truth is hate speech. I wlll admit some here do name call, but I have not done that. You also seem to think it:s OK to starve someone to death even though conscious.
            The reason I said I like the way things are, I like the freedoms we have that are in danger of being taken away from us. There are too many ostriches in this country with their heads buried in the sand and do not see or comprehend what is happening. Also too many frogs waiting to be boiled in hot water.

          • eyeswideopen

            American you are right, you don’t call anyone names, let me apologize for that. In some previous sites, you have called me some unkind things so, being human, I too made a mistake.
            All I’m trying to tell you is that your religion and beliefs are not the same as everyones elses. The laws protect people from being forced to do what you and your religion think is best. We are a country of laws. The Christian religion does not run this country. Each and every person has rights that cannot be denied by another person or organization. Teri’s husband had that right and like it or not, we have to accept that his decision was guaranteed by the Constitution. Republicans think that our Christian beliefs should determine and be the only deciding factor in medical issues. How we believe personally should never be forced upon another person. When that happens we have then lost the freedoms that we cherish so much. Yes, to you and me, it was cruel, however, it was not in our realm to interfere. You get upset with that situation but make no comments on someone being hung because they work for the government?
            Obama, is not trying to take over healthcare, he is trying to save it. In a couple of years it will be bankrupt and then you will be in an outrage as to why.
            please read: (2 Links did not function)
            http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/congress_corporate_welfare.HTM

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      So Rush is “drugball” because he got addicted to pain killers from a surgery eh? So what then is your boy Obama, from his smoking pot and snorting cocaine in high school? And he willingly started doing this stuff, not prescribed by a Doctor for an ailment. Hmm. Pretty quick to point fingers arent you, you little left wing liberal pacifist appeasing pants wetting little girlie man democrat? Oh yeah, its kind of like that.

  • Bob Dean

    As we attempt to focus-on and decipher the multitude of troublesome issues aligned across the governmental spectrum concerning Health Care Reform and countless other issues, it’s clear that we are faced with abounding challenges of epic proportions. Historically, “We the People” have dealt with ever changing programs in our day-to-day lives and in our workplace. We did so through constant compromise and by making major adjustments to our thought processes in order to change in the name of progress. Markedly, most American’s are extremely proud to be a citizen of the greatest nation in the world. They are extremely dedicated and work hard to achieve the rewards that are normally received through hard work and achieving established goals. It should be noted that first and foremost, those goals must be portrayed through a clear and precise vision and established in a comprehensive plan understandable by all. It must be profoundly upheld by the highest degree of integrity before people can or should become nobly spirited in their dedication to support the implementation of proposed changes. Anything less is simply an exhibit of closed mindedness and stupidity destined for catastrophic failure. This Great Nation is not known for failure nor will it be, if we stand united in maintaining our constitution and demand explicit compliance from our elected representatives.
    As a result of the constant escalation of misconduct and abuse of position and authority from our elected representatives, it is now time we highly scrutinize their questionable procedures and evaluate the ethical standards and personal integrity of those charged with overseeing and administering the governing processes laid out in our Constitution. Presumably, the constitutional requirements were written and established to provide a framework of protection against abuses and were intended to be applied as our governing processes and laws. Unfortunately, that is far from what reality exhibits as there are serious conflicts and questions as to how or if the governing processes are being applied. Undeniably, it would be extremely unethical for our elected official to stand-by with blinders on and allow good, law abiding citizens to be subjected to the unlawful actions of unscrupulous political representatives, but that is exactly what’s taking place. Without question, it is our elected Congressmen and Senators responsibility to rebuke and hold strictly accountable any and all Representatives’ committing unlawful actions. Yet, countless illegal infractions occur time and time again that are cloaked behind what is commonly termed “Administrative Privilege”. For example: When President Obama was asked if he and his family would give up his current health care and participate in his new “Universal Health Care Program”, that’s the same one the rest of us will be utilizing? What do you suppose his answer was? Well, there was a stone cold silence as the President ignored the question and chose not to answer it! Instead his commit was that he is the President and as such he has a Doctor on standby 24 / 7. Additionally, a number of Senators and Congressmen were asked the same question and their response was… “We will think about it”, and they did. It has now been announced that the “Kennedy Health Care Bill” was written into the new Health Care Reform initiative ensuring that Congress will be 100% EXEMPT! So it seems this great new Universal Health Care Plan is good enough for the common citizen but falls short when proposed for Obama, his family, and Congress! Quite simply, “We the People” must demand an immediate halt to this proposed catastrophe being rammed down our throats. There are underlying agendas that must be brought to light and when they are it will be discernibly clear just how corrupt certain members of our political representatives are. We must stand committed with the fact that IF our leaders are willing to subject us to their so-called better health care system, let them lead the way by being required to utilize only this proposed plan for themselves and their families as their sole source of health care coverage. Let that be our only concern as they receive the same government allocation as you or I will. Let’s not forget that we are the employer (”WE THE PEOPLE”) providing our employees (Elected representatives) their rightfully deserved benefits.
    It’s not enough to simply have a vision; leaders must be capable of sharing it. They must be able to effectively communicate that vision in terms that causes and allows others to buy into it. He or she must be able to communicate clearly and passionately, as their passion will be the catalyst to launch a contagious vigor towards obtaining the proposed vision. It seems there is an extreme case of “analysis paralysis” because the majority of questions being asked are responded to with a revolving door of confusion or no answer is provided, they simply skirt around it with political “mumbo jumbo”. All we are asking for is the plain and simple TRUTH! We are not being informed by our elected official we are simply expected to fall in line and accept whatever they decide is right for us. Sorry, it just isn’t going to work any longer. We will be informed as to what this government has in store for us before we accept it. Remember we are the government, “We the People”. We will be positively engaged in the pursuit of the vision, but only after we have analyzed the proponents and are convinced that it is in-fact in our best interests to pursue a new charted course. All elected officials will emphatically know that they work for us and it is our decision to make and they better damn well listen to “The Peoples’ Voice”.
    It is without question that our elected representatives have lost focus and legitimacy. While our self-serving politicians make sure that they take care of their butts, and I might add at the tax payers’ expense, it is overwhelmingly apparent that the governing structure does not exercise effective oversight at any level. This self-serving agenda methodically allows political weaknesses to persist without interdiction. The governing body encourages the unabated continuance of abuse of position and authority by sugar coating violations of the laws, rules, regulations, policy guidance and the Constitution of the United States. This flagrant disregard and utter failure to operate within prescribing laws and governing statutes has created an irreparable fracture in established processes and has now reached unimaginable levels. Without a doubt, the entire governmental process can only be viewed as fully corrupt, incompetent, inadequate and ineffective to say the least.
    Quite simply, it is unconscionable that our elected representatives have been afforded the freedom and latitude of manipulating governing laws, rules, regulations, and policies to suite their own personal goals and desires. Operating as though they are above reproach they simply write their own ticket and circumvent whatever requirements they choose, to include tax evasion without penalty. Without question, their unlawful actions are in direct violation of the same laws and standards that all government employees are held accountable to and prosecuted for when perceived violations occur. All while unscrupulous politicians use their power and position, not for meritorious purposes but to enrich and elevate themselves or their favorite cronies through their unfettered circumvention of required processes. The reckless mismanagement of virtually every major governmental program clearly reveals just how systemic the problems are entrenched throughout their self constructed broken, corrupt political system.
    The seriousness of this issue cannot be overstated for it is past time that we interject real leadership and ensure that those put in charge responsibly and equitably administer the governing laws and requirements set forth in the Constitution by policing and ensuring violators are in-fact held accountable for their unlawful actions. Those like Bernie Madoff, that chose to disregard and violate the laws, rules, regulations, policies, and the Constitution must be relentlessly sought out and prosecuted to the full extent of the law, no matter who they are or what position they hold. The performance standard of those charged with the responsibility to oversee and administer stated policies and governing laws set forth in the Constitution must be stringently evaluated, for if they were given an honest appraisal today they would fail demonstrably, across the board. I suspect the real issue is whether or not our Representative’s will stand committed in this rapidly changing federal landscape to actually rebuild and restore the egregious breach of trust, integrity, honesty, ethical standards and most importantly, the commitment of our elected Congress to be representative of higher principles and standards. Let the record reflect that currently those values and standards are totally representative of nothing more than a façade or a JOKE! Take your pick.

    It is absolutely essential that all positive intrinsic traits normally inherent to good leadership qualities, be re-instated, mandated, engrained, and sustained throughout all of government. It is without question, past time to step-up to the plate and be engaged in an unrelenting challenge to defeat the real evils that plague our government representation. That means putting accountability to work through “No Tolerance” guidelines and demanding unquestionable, unilateral support from the TOP POSITION down to the lowest. We must emphatically demand that all government employees or better yet, government “servants” engage in nothing less than optimal levels of honesty, ethical and moral standards, and command our leader’s to steadfastly adhere to irreproachable character and integrity as they command compliance of governing laws and our CONSTITUTION. Instill compliance not only by the employees under them but mandate absolute compliance of their every action throughout their course of service. If our leaders continue to function in their own self-serving agendas and fail to acquire, possess, and demonstrate the uppermost levels of moral principles and professional and ethical standards, we will categorically witness an unending stream of abuses and violations. Indeed, without question, we will be doomed for catastrophic failure from within our governing body of elected representatives.
    Members of Congress must be apprised of the fact that it is not our government that is in question, for it is obvious, that our government is as strong today as it was when the Constitution was signed into law by the founding fathers. The only thing in question is the “lack of leadership”. Those members that exemplify righteous principles, display the optimum level of integrity, are truly representative of quality leadership traits and have the intestinal fortitude to maintain and enforce the laws, rules, regulations, policies, and our Constitution as prescribed, would never condone or tolerate the slightest infraction at any level. Anything less only serves to diminish and destroy every ounce of trust, loyalty, respect, and of course integrity. This dilapidated, broken, and corrupt system must be reconstituted to truly command and advocate the principles set forth by our founding fathers in the Constitution of the United States of America.

    We the people DO NOT want Obama Care as it is proposed. He is not listening to the people; he is following his own agenda and those that own him. The people’s elected officials must stop his “water boarding” tactics and do the people’s bidding. He promised the American people that he would stop lobbyists and return the White House to the people; all he is doing is making Czars of them. The people do not need them; we have officials that were truly elected by the people; just as the Constitution demands. It seems like he is not really running our country; those he is surrounding himself with are running our country for him while he vacations and campaigns for their agenda. But, “We the People” will prevail!!!

    • JeffH

      Whew! (wiping sweat off brow) I didn’t have the time to read your complete comment, but you are so correct about what I was able to read. GOOD JOB
      Politics and politicians are, for the most part, totaly ignorant and uninformed. There are too many that ignore and ridicule the same people that have entrusted them to keep our country safe and out of shallow water but have run the ship aground.
      VOTE for major change in 2010 and let us hope for a future government that is truly appreciative and dedicated to preserving freedom and the American traditions as laid out by our forefathers.

      • eyeswideopen

        jeff, what change are you supporting, just putting the Republcians back in power? You know that the Libertarian party is not strong enough to field representatives for those seats that are up for election, so I guess you just want a return to power of the previous admin?

        • JeffH

          Then just let the country go to hell in a handbasket! If you are smart enough to use a computer then you are smart enough to research the candidate. Screw you, Democrats and Republican, Bush, Obama.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, you are where I was at the other nite, all this hate gets to you. You know I respect your opinions or I wouldn’t show you the respect I do.

          • JeffH

            I’m about finished with all of this crap. No matter where one goes, the comments are all the same. I am right and everyone else is wrong!
            The racists and the idiots and all the hate talk belong in the toilet.
            I guess I am getting bored with it. Too few people will not accept any of the blame and they think government is the cure all. It ain’t and if we, the people, don’t make a stand now, we will become a nation of sheep. If we don’t stop these thieves and arrogant basterds and kick their asses down the block, then Americans will deserve whatever this evil cockroach and his sidekicks have in store for them.

          • JeffH

            eyes, with all due respect, I could never be where you are at any time. lol!

        • hopeforamerica

          LOL. The Libertarians are even WORSE then the Republicans! Not on your life would I ever vote for a damn Libertarian! These L-nut cases are only step above Anarchism.

          • David

            Remember to look in that mirror….nutcase

          • eyeswideopen

            Hope, this is the Republican Conservative AKA Libertarian site. although I don’t know how the repubs reconcile the equal treatment that the Libertarians will give to gays, and they will allow abortions. Oh my Gosh, can you see the havoc if Obama, allowed abortions to be covered????? These are true hypocrites, as long as you bash Obama, they will let each other, even if they are diametrically opposed with ideology have peace and pat each other on the back…

          • David

            Go ahead liberals. You have done a great job in only 8 months to solidify a majority group of repubs, libertarians and blue dogs. I think we make up about 90% of the population. And Eyes, if you really are/were a repub then surely you fall somewhere in this 90%….unless you are a wolf in sheeple’s clothing.

            Just look what’s happening in DC….it’s falling apart.

    • Elaine

      GOD Bless America and you Sir!THE PEOPLE WILL PREVAIL!

      • r k

        “Elaine says:

        GOD Bless America and you Sir!THE PEOPLE WILL PREVAIL!”

        Ya right, Did you or people prevailed when the GW and that Paulson (the rober) demanded at gunpoint 700 b. dollars bank bailout from the congress. One of the California representative was told by GW and his adminstration that if he did not vote for the bailout there would be martial law. SEE BELOW FOR YOURSELF.
        “Congressman Brad Sherman said on the floor of the House that a few Congress members had been told there would be martial law in America if they did not pass Paulson’s Plunder. Here’s video.”

        Isn’t that dictatorship? What freedom are you talking about?

    • eyeswideopen

      Most people on this site, can bash the President, in fewer words and much less time. You must be a lawyer or just like to hear (read) yourself.I did make it all the way through and You really should attempt to be a little shorter in your rhetoric and you will have more participants.

    • Smilee

      Bob

      Congratulations, you now hold the record for the largest pile of garbage in a single post on this site. Your post is pure crap!!!

  • OldTimer1933

    The entire Obamacare package is a sham. Only an idiot would believe that you can add millions of patients with no increase in physicians and providers and not have a big time adverse effect on the system.

    However, suggestion that ending waste and fraud will offset billions of dollars of costs. So, that WILL be the case, why wait for an entirely new package before coming up with the legislation that promises to save all that money? Why not pass the ‘savinsg’ legislation as fast as they passed the stimulus and TARP SPENDING bills? They ALL know that such ‘savings’ are a crock of baloney and all they want to do is pass ‘something’ that will eventually have to be paid for by our grandchildren — if the nation has not already been bankrupted by these lunatics who believe thay can spend their way out of debt.

    • Elaine

      Unfortunately they truly don’t care about healthcare its all about…I’ll quote our so called leader “Fundamentallty transforming this Country” They (the criminals in the gov) have been working on this for many years and they have to have this completed before the end of this year to take part in the new world order….those of us who belive in FREEDOM and our Constitution will be the first to be destroyed (by any means available)if that were possible! WWII comes to mind. I am not a conspiricy therorist I am a realist and I have eyes and ears there is a take over unfolding as we speak…but we will PREVAIL…simply because the Truth shall set us FREE! keep speaking the truth GOD Bless the USA.

      • eyeswideopen

        Elaine, you do know that it was Bush Sr. who is for the NEW WORLD ORDER, don’t you? Your eyes let you down, get your ears a listening.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iowcFf8g

      • JeffH

        Once again the biggest BUSH BASHER is a self proclaimed REPUBLICAN!
        She hasn’t quit her party yet, but every comment made indicates that she is either a glutton for punishment or loves self degradation.

        • eyeswideopen

          Probably both. What’s your excuse?? lol

          • JeffH

            I am but one fool of many.

    • wrinkle proof

      Re your first paragraph:

      not only will millions more come into this country requiring healthcare, but about 85% of physicians are not AMA members and do not endorse this disastrous Gov’t.-run healthcare plan.

      About 45% of the 85%, according to poll, say they will quit or retire if this plan passes. The long waits will be even longer if you require treatment.

      No doubt those who elected this administration will be the first ones complaining about the waits. SNAFU

      Were you aware when the stimulus passed that hidden therein was language that requires all physicians to electronically submit all patient-owned health records to the Federal Gov’t…without the consent of the patients? Another invasion of our privacy. It WAS against the law to share patients’ health info with ANYONE unless those patients agreed to, remember?

      It oughta be a LAW that LAWYERS aren’t allowed to hold the highest office in the land, but then many of our LAWS are not being enforced…i.e., Reagan’s 1986 Immigration Law–not being enforced.

  • William Stewart

    You seem right (stopped reading after 1st paragraph) brief it or copyright it.
    I am against all the arrogance I have witnessed since election day- can’t wait to see 2010 results. Hopefully not too much damage can be done until then- Republicans, independents, keep fighting and delaying rank liberal rationality, unconstitutional acts, and socialism.

  • Winston

    I say kill the lawer — To much BS to read , I’ed like something that all of can read AND understand ( we the people )
    Thank you Winston USN-RET

  • Keith H

    The american people always get scewed,i’m not suprised bacause this sickcare system is built on making profit, not taking care of people.
    They take money from us to reward the bankers for their scew up, and now they’re going to take more money from people that can’t even afford to pay for this scewed up health care system that’s ranked 37th in the world,which means we won’t even get our moneys worth.
    Any time they miss manage this country, we’ll wind up paying for it, you can bet on that

  • ONTIME

    Has it occured to all now that there is something seriously wrong with our government, especially the congress and the need for this majority party to slam this health plan down your throats, the one they will not have for themselves. These turkey’s we elected will have either a gold plated plan that they can easily afford since they vote themselves all kinds of benefit and pay and many are now using concierge plans that we the tax payers are good for but you are not supposed to have that choice…elitist, arrogant, intrusive and indicates to we taxpaayers that a much needed change is now immeadiately due fore controll of our elected officials.

    I suggest for our gold plated electees in all catagories of government, term limits and if a career of being elected from one office to another then a moritorium be required, same for being immeadiately appointed after serving. That a total restructuring of the benefits, insurance, perks and salaries be introduced to coincide and compare to the private sector. This would be necessary since it is the private sector that creates the basis for new taxes by production and the government simply spends the money and produces nothing but manages to grow at a alarming rate and demands more from the private sector. Last and importantly all elected officials be publicly audited each and every year they hold office to be held accountable for their income sources, maybe a 50% tax on all donated campaign funds be considered also. You can bet the idea of taxing your income would be given more consideration if this were so.

    • Rod

      What they are squashing our freedom with, is not what they have put
      aside for themselves!

      • eyeswideopen

        Rod, what in hell are you talking about,,, what freedom are they sqashing ?

    • hopeforamerica

      There is something seriously wrong with this country’s values if we treat health care like a privledge. It should be a basic right.

      • David

        If you have paid into the system. Screw you if you have not.

    • eyeswideopen

      I say let reconcilation rule… Hey it worked for the Repubs in 2001,2003,2005 so how bad can it be? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Ganders are now ruling!!

      • David

        You should no longer refer to yourself as a repub or “was a repub” because you walk and talk like a liberal. How can you say reconcil is the way to go? That will surely finish your party off….you may not have the 50 votes now anyway. GO BLUEDOGS!

  • eyeswideopen

    My newspaper today. “The money the Pasco County Schoold Board has available for employee bonuses or raises will shrink by 2.1 million.Just a week ago, the board adopted a budget that anticipated health benefits costs to rise by 3.37 million. But the plan that’s moving through the system would cost the district 6.19 million more than a year ago, a 13 percent increase”.
    Oh yes, no raises for the employees due to the 13 percent increase in HEALTHCARE COSTS!!! I can’t stop laughing, these employees are so pissed off, as they haven’t gotten raises in over 3 years. Don’t they get it, each year the healthcare premiums go up by that miracle number of 13% and guess what no raise money available. Dumb dee dumb.

    • John

      Thank you. And if Obamacare passes it will be much worse, for more than just a school board. Duh!

    • Rod

      You can watch whats left of your freedom go south and the tyranny
      take your life and the life of your loved ones! That is if you have
      any.

    • American Citizen

      That’s what happens when the states don’t have the money. They operate on tax revenues, too. The Federal Government takes so much, the states don’t dare to raise their taxes. What the states get back from the Feds should have stayed in the states to begin with. By the time they get anything back, the money has gone through so many hands, the states get a mere pittance.

      • JeffH

        …need to blame it all on BUSH!

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          If your on the left, and Obama and his mates fail, no sweat, just stand up, stick out your finger, and blame it on Bush. It worked for you to get elected didnt it. After all, that is all you brought to the table in 2008, and you got elected. I think America got educated real quick, thats why the lefties are all getting thrown to the curb in 2010 and 2012, and I want to see how they will blame their downfall on Bush, since he isnt around and had nothing to do with it. Still, they will blame him somehow, as that is all they know how to do.

      • eyeswideopen

        American and Jeff, our county cut our home owner taxes so low that we have no revenue to cover the basics. We were spending like crazy during the boom years and 3 yrs ago they went in an cut the taxes and kept spending. No Jeff this wasn’t Bush’s fault, It was however the county commissioners fault, we have 6 repubs and one dem on board.

        • JeffH

          yea!

      • eyeswideopen

        American, welcome back, we could tell that you recently had someone else posting comments in your name. By the way, they composed a wicked post. Either your grandchildren or children can write extremely well.

        • American Citizen

          Eyes, what are you talking about? None of the rest of my family knows I’m on this site. I don’t even know if they get the e-mails from Livingston.

    • hopeforamerica

      EyesWideOpen; That again is probably the Baucus bill which NOBody likes! Congress is offering all kinds of amendments to fix this bill and work toward President Obama’s goals. In my opinion, Baucus was bought and paid for by the insurance industry as was most of the repubs. I don’t like his bill. I do like Pres. Obama’s bill, and strongly believe that the insurance companies will NOT lower their rates or offer better coverage UNless we incorporate a public option which will force them to be competitive!

      • eyeswideopen

        bacus is so dirty, I won’t even capitalize his name.!! He thinks 100 hours is a long time to work on this stupid bill, which took three months to get out. He is crooked and has been bought to the tune of 3.2 million. Rep, Ross is another one recently exposed as being paid for by the drug companies. I never said the dems aren’t dirty, I take exception to blaming Obama who just took office for all the ills of this country which took years to formulate, and I believe that he should be given a chance to try and fix our many, many problems.

        • American Citizen

          Eyes, you don’t seem to be getting it. There may have been problems when Obama took office, but he has only made things worse and want to make them even worse. He is not a puppet as we think of one, the Democrats are doing his bidding. There are a few who are standing against his policies, but not enough.

          • eyeswideopen

            American tell me how he has made it worse.. .come on you can do it.

      • JeffH

        How can you like a bill that has no language? There is no bill at this point nor is there going to be! The Finance Commitee can’t and won’t make an estimate on the final cost because there is no language to estimate off of.

        • eyeswideopen

          Every single one of them on the Finance Committee should be removed from office. Send your emails and make their lives hell.

    • hopeforamerica

      Vote for a Public Option and Force the Insurance companies to lower their rates. A Public Option will force them to be more competitive !!

      • David

        You mean force them out. How about tort reform, trans state competition for insurance companies, medicare/medicade reform. How about individual bills for each area? Oh no, then that would give the public time to understand the bills as they are being developed. What about killing the 72 hour public review? Thanks pelosi…

  • Barbara

    This heathcare plan is against the Constitution. There is nothing in our Constitution that guarantees anyone healthcare, a house, a car, a job, or anything else. We are guaranteed our own pursuit of happiness and choices. Our founding fathers did not create our Goverment to be our Parent-to tell us what we need and take care of us. Of course there are goverments who do that-Russia, Cuba, Argentina…

    • Smilee

      There is nothing in the constitution that prohibits it either and some would argue that it does permit it in the provide for the General Welfare clause. Conservatives have argued for years the 10 th amendment to support you view but have never been successful. Recently on a Sunday morning talk show MN Governor Pawlenty said when he used that argument it was a political statement not a legal one. Not sure I follow him but he is a lawyer and he says it is not an legal one, he is also a republican who hope to run for president in 12. You just do not seem to understand the constitution and many here do not

      • American Citizen

        Smlee, if you read the Constitution, it lays out what the Federal Government can do. All the rest it left to the states. The Federal Government has grabbed so many states’ rights and the states roll over and let it. The changes that needs to be made in the insurance business can be done by the states.

        • eyeswideopen

          Sweetie, that works, if you happen to be in a state, that isn’t run by Republicans, who don’t give a crap about you or your health.

          • American Citizen

            The people in those states can have tea parties, too, just like they are doing against DC. It’s up to the people to demand their own legislatures do what needs doing what’s right for their state.

        • Smilee

          AC

          Gov Pawlenty on a Sunday morning talk show was asked about that as he had made the same stupid statement but he had to admit it was a just a political statement on his part and not a legal one, (in other words its constitutional) he is a lawyer (who is thinking about running for pres next time as a republican) and he knows this is not true but so many idiots in the conservative want so bad to believe it, he feels he has appease them with his lies in hopes of gaining their support, conservatism in this country today is based on all lies and that is why it is dying on the vine so to speak.

  • Rod

    When 2010 comes, the people will have a chance to speak up and change
    this Congress into a neutralizer for the Obama ACID on our stomach’s!
    We the people, can tell these lefties what a big mistake they have
    made! We didn’t ride in on a head of cabbage after all!

  • Rod

    So eyeswideopen is laughing because people are suffering for Obama’s
    stupidity! Well, wait tell your freedom and eveything you have ever
    held dear to you comes crumbling down and right out your — —-!
    We are going to be able to hear your SCREAMS above all the rest of
    us!

    • American Citizen

      Eyes is sleepwalking through the past with her eyes wide open. Her bashing of the past administration is getting pretty old. We can do nothing about it, I keep telling her we have to live in the present and do what we can to preserve our freedoms. The present administration is the scariest yet.

      • eyeswideopen

        American, what has he done? and can you ever admit what we did to ourselves? Do you really think the economy just went to hell on Jan 2009? Do you not understand that the medicare bill was and is outrageous? Do you like the Patriot Act? I can’t believe that you had as many kids as you did, and you didn’t try and make them learn from their mistakes. You are the one who said, we need to learn from our experiences. Well, part of that is to not be hypocritical, we can critize, but name calling and hateful disrespect is not what this country is supposed to be about. Please tell me what has invoked such hate in you?

        • John

          There she goes, playing the race card again.
          Always asking why we’re so hateful just because we don’t agree with the worst President in America’s history. Do we really need to state anymore facts to support our contentions? Every day there is something new. Yesterday he through Israel under the bus, a few days before The Czech Republic, in the UN OUR National Security.
          Please WAKE UP!

          • John

            As I just mentioned everyday something new with this President. Now I read that New Jersey children 1st & 2nd graders, singing political songs about the anointed one.
            At least one was a Christian song, which goes Jesus loves children but they substituted Jesus’ name with Obama’s name.
            I understand that it’s posted on You Tube.
            That’s why we didn’t want him addressing our children in school a few weeks ago. It was his ORIGINAL AGENDA that we opposed!
            Sorry but last I heard we don’t live in a Middle Eastern country nor do we have a dictator. Only a wantabe Dictator.

          • eyeswideopen

            John, you can’t read, I never once used the word racist… Quilty conscious?

          • David

            Yes Eyes, did you see the video? MMM MMM MMM obama is great…feeds us chocolate cake….fix this nations problems…obama is great. I heard some of the parents being interviewed this morning and they were pissed and they are New Jersyians! The school system had no right without parental approval.

          • John

            No I can read obviously better than you or you wouldn’t be so out in left field. I was referring to the hate-card not race. It’s just that I see you constantly playing those two cards.

        • American Citizen

          Yes, eyes, we should learn from the past, not live in it which you seem to be doing. We know what went wrong and now are dealing with new problems. Obama did not fix anything, he’s only making them worse.

          • eyeswideopen

            Nope, wrong again, we are dealing with the past problems. You must have been sleeping during the past time frame of 2008 until now.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      No worry, you lefties will blame Obama’s misdeeds on Bush, somehow, someway. Thats what you do. Place blame. Dont bring an answer. Just place blame. Democrats are so practiced and good at it. Alan Iverson, take note. See what practice can do for you?

      • eyeswideopen

        Bebe, come on, give me one republican answer to the healtcare problem.. Name just one anyone, who has come up with a viable idea.

      • eyeswideopen

        Doesn’t take a lot of effort,,, many to choose from.

  • http://N/A. Eric

    Gov is attempting the next greatest laundering of money from tax payers. The greatest is Social Security (and Medicare).

    Why has Gov who has decades of data, FAILED TO DECLARE THE PRICE CHART (like car insurance) FOR GOV PROPOSED MED CARE SYSTEM? NOT POSSIBLE! Probability of (x) (aka “P(x)”) with a 95% to 98% “level of confidence”? Amy math inclined idiot can take Gov data and crank out the numbers and give you reality of Gov Med Costs by PRICE CHART. We are supposed to more stupid than Gov failure to give out reliable PRICE CHART data and yearly costs?? How did Gov and all society forget to ask for the PRICE CHART (age, conditions, …) to get real data to argue over the real price of med care, or if any need med care other then pay on demand; like med care issue every 15 years or so, or, mandatory laundering thousands of dollars every year for no service?
    Shocked? Ask the price for all PRICE CHART coverages!

    • Smilee

      Another irrational post by eric, sounds like he is a broke business man

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Sad to say, but since the inception of Obama led democrats, there have become a lot of broke businessmen. A lot more to follow. These guys are screwing up everything they touch. You better hope they dont get the health care thing they want, or they will definately screw your medicare or medicaid thing you got going all to hell. Watch and see.

        • American Citizen

          I watched C-Span today and the Republicans were really defending us senior citizens. There were even a couple of Democrats that spoke up for us.

          • JeffH

            Why has Congress just decided that Medicare fraud should be investigated now? Henry Waxman and Co. must feel it is far more important to investigate and waste taxpayer dollars on Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens than ACORN or Medicare fraud.

          • eyeswideopen

            No, why would they do that, haven’t they convened the death panels yet? Should start the killing aroung Jan 2010 for sure. lol

          • JeffH

            it is nice ti know someone is starting to hear the voice of protest.

    • eyeswideopen

      Yes, Eric, how did we pass a 1.2 trillion bill with no funding? I believe it’s called Medicare Advantage.

      • American Citizen

        Eyes, tell me what is wrong with Medicare Advantage? You keep bashing it without explanation.

        • eyeswideopen

          American, I tell you every time I get an opening, The government is subdizing private companies, insurance companies and the Big Phrma companies. Insurance companies are charging the government 13-14 % more for each member of the Advantage plan for care, and not providing the care. IBM receives 400 million from the Fed, for their retired employees pharmacuetical needs. Don’t tell me that you wouldn’t like for all of your meds to be free. Why should the IBM retired get their meds paid for, when yours aren’t? We agreed that the government cannot negotiate with the pharmacuetical companies for lower rates for you elderly. So the additional premium that you have to purchase for your meds and the out of pocket costs are passed on to you. The Big Phrma companies are making 200 billion in profit every year since we passed that bill. Medicare Adv. is out spending and not providing care as good as regular Medicare. If you read these following links, it will be easier to understand.

          • American Citizen

            Congress needs to take a whole new look at the Medicare Drug plans. I don’t know why they can’t dicker with the pharmas just as Canada and some other countries do. Why should the people of this country make up the difference? I think the pharmas should tell those countries that they have to pay the same as we do or they don’t get the drugs. There are not that many countries that do R and D. It has to be paid for or they will quit doing it and there will be no cures or helps for various diseases and health problems.

          • eyeswideopen

            American for some reason, the links I put in were edited out of my post. here they are agina
            (PAGE NOT FOUND – none of these three links are to working pages)
            (Non-functioning link)
            (Page Not Found)

          • eyeswideopen

            Ok, Bob, why are you guys not letting me post the links? Is it the congressional debates you don’t like, or the Cato testimony? Certainly not the Medicare rights link? What are you afraid of?

          • eyeswideopen
          • libertytrain

            your links just plain don’t work – I don’t think it’s Bob’s fault like you suggested. Given how much stuff is on this site and spoken by all of us making comments, I think perhaps we should check out our work before we hit send and see if it the links really work – Sometimes opening up a new browser and pasting the link there will allow you to see if what you are trying to send will really appear as you see it on your regular browser – it’s easy to have two browsers open at once – If I could figure it out – I’m sure you will and you will have more success with working links.

          • eyeswideopen

            Liberty, thanks for the hints. I only left a msg for Bob, as both time I have left post with three links in it. I get a msg, that my comments are being reviewed. The first time they did that, they remove all three, with no explaination. Their comment that all three are not found is not true as You debate comes up just fine.

          • libertytrain

            On my own blog site, anyone that sends multiple links is an automatic hold for review – not something I set up but an automatic protection kind of device that WordPress (I have a WordPress Blog)sets up – perhaps it was a fluke – don’t take it personally, if they were deliberately picking and choosing what got in and what didn’t get in, I think this site would not be as colorful as it is with dramatic comments from all sides and they’d have to have a staff of thousands with all the posts that are here! Remember just because a link works on your computer, it will not always work the same on the next person’s computer…so relax and enjoy the ride.

          • eyeswideopen

            I didn’t think too much about it, until they left msg, that the pages could not be found. Yet when I entered them singlely on three different posts, they all worked. But thanks for the explaination.

          • libertytrain

            One last comment on this – your own computer has a history of the website on it – so generally, not always, whenever you click on that site, the history of the site is what you are seeing. Now on my computer, I have no history of that site, so what I see may be totally different than what you see. If you clear out your history, you may see what I see – which is frequently why I see “page not found” or something similar, on many of the links I click on that people think will show what they want us to see but don’t.

          • eyeswideopen

            http:www.cato.org/testimony/ct-Sm063099.html

          • eyeswideopen
          • eyeswideopen
  • JeffH

    Action Alert: Read the whole story, click on the link below:
    This is how our politicians operate,with deception. How can any proposed programs be trusted if our elected officials are allowed to continue to be the lowly scumbags that they are?

    http://capwiz.com/gunowners/issues/alert/?alertid=14045911&type=CO&azip=93611

    Senate Leadership Pushes for Sleazy Maneuver to Pass Anti-Gun ObamaCare Database

    Gun Owners of America
    8001 Forbes Place Suite 102
    Springfield VA 22151
    Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408

    Friday, September 18, 2009

    Charles Babington of the Associated Press reported yesterday about the Senate Democratic leadership’s latest sleazy maneuver to pass the anti-gun health care bill. And this is contemptible even by their admittedly low standards:

    White House and Democratic officials are quietly talking with key senators, hoping to craft a thread-the-needle strategy on health care with little or no help from Republicans. The officials are asking a handful of moderate Democrats to do something that might be hard to explain to voters: Cast a Senate vote that could be interpreted as favoring a bill that the lawmakers ultimately plan to oppose on final passage.

    Please click on the above link to read the whole story.

    • eyeswideopen

      Brilliant idea, they must have stolen it from us.

    • American Citizen

      As Bob Dean said above, their underlying agenda.

  • JeffH

    Interesting reading on the health care debate, click on this link:http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/09/10/industry-winners-losers-in-obama-health-care-speech/

    Also, I find it interesting is Obama’s Administrations efforts to suppress criticism of OBAMACARE. Click on this link: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2346226/posts

    Another interesting read…”Shut Up! The Government Says” – McConnell on Humana Letter…click on the link below:
    http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09/shut-up-the-government-says-mcconnell-on-humana-letter.html

    Are all of these stories linked to fear mongering by right wing conservatives?
    Decide for yourself!

    • American Citizen

      They were talking about this on C-Span today. The Reps found it despicable. I don’t remember if it was brought up in the Senate. Too many people talking. It was an interesting day. That’s why people should watch C-Span. They see the Congress people live and hear their opinions from their own mouths.

    • JeffH

      An FYI – a GAG letter was sent to ALL Medicare Advantage Carriers.
      UMMMMMMMM! Unconstitutional?

    • eyeswideopen

      Jeff, you didn’t go quite far enough, Humana even with the government sudsidies is not able to provide the care, they are now planning to just get as much as they can while the program is still functioning. Please see: http://industry.bnet.com/healthcare/1000205/humana-presses-its-advantage-in-medicare-advantage/

    • eyeswideopen

      Jeff, I have Humana, and I don’t really like my money used to try and sway any political beliefs either way. Maybe the could use all that propaganda money on care for someone who is sick?/ Ya think? Nay, let’s just deny some more claims and print more political crap to make sure we get to keep our subsidies!!!

      • JeffH

        could care less. gov put a gag order on all of them! Unconstitutional!

  • American Citizen

    You all need to watch C-Span to know what is going on. It still amazes me how empty the chambers are when these bills are being talked about. They bash President Bush for taking a vacation (not really, as his work goes with him wherever the President is), but those lawmakers seem to be mostly absent for some reason.

    • eyeswideopen

      American, they are in committees trying to figure out the mess that each group has formulated. By the way Bush took 1065 vacation days. After just 6 months in office, he took off for a month. Why do you have to bring him up, so that I must give you the ugly facts?

  • American Citizen

    Have you heard the latest, that Joe Lieberman may run as a Republican? I would have voted for him for President even though he was a Democrat when he tried to run a few years ago. AT least he has the people’s interest at heart.

    • eyeswideopen

      It’s ok if you are a dem going to the repub party, but if you are a repub going the other way, then you are a slime ball, commie. Does anyone remember Specter?? HYPOCRITES. ALL OF YOU !!!!

      • American Citizen

        All depends on your opinion. I was a registered Republican at the time. I have since become an Independent as both parties have their problems.

        • eyeswideopen

          American, That’s exactly what I am leaning towards, registering as an Independent.

      • John

        Eyes,I’m glad you’re here on this site with us. It’s nice too have a know it all like yourself explain every issue on this site to us.
        Keep up the good work. You go girl!

        • eyeswideopen

          John, I don’t know it all, I read what you people say, research it, and come back with the truth,,, it isn’t that hard and it makes me more informed on the real facts. I know that radicals will make statements trying to make their point stronger and more believeable, and they don’t worry about it being true. But it really doesn’t matter,as you can put the truth in front of them and the hate is so strong that they can’t even admit when they have mis-spoken or outright lied. I don’t take your remark as an insult as, my goal is to continue learning and trying to make better decisions. After the Bush admin, I will never again vote a party line.

  • eyeswideopen

    Honest, Bebe, was speaking to me, You must have seen your name above his post and got confused. However, I couldn’t have spoken probably as well as you did. You did make some points that I wish I had made.

  • James Corbin

    Richard, You are so right!! Obama, just can’t get anything right. I have listened to his speeches and followed him on the campaign. He always contradicts himself. He said there was 47 million americans without health care. In another speech he said 30 americans were without health care. Just says anything!!!

    • American Citizen

      The number seems to change each time it’s mentioned by the pols.

      • eyeswideopen

        American, did you see my links to medicare rights above? It should explain what is going on with the unfair Medicare Advantage bill.

  • American Citizen

    Eyes, there was no “reply” under your reply to me up above. I am not trying to force my religion on anybody. In Terri Schiavo’s case, it was her rights that were denied by her husband, the first of which is the “right to life”. The Costitution does not give her husband the right to kill her. In having her feeding tube removed, that is what he did. Where do you find that right in the Constitution?

    • eyeswideopen

      American, when my father had a stroke, and heart attack, was in a coma, the V.A. told me he would not recover, as his guardian, I made the decision to unplug him as he made me promise not to leave him on a ventilator. So you are saying that I killed my father? I always thought that decision was my fathers and he trusted me to carry out his wishes. Why doesn’t everyone just keep their noses to their own business and quit trying to impose their beliefs on others? I did what my father wanted even if I didn’t want to do it, and it certainly wasn’t anybody else’s business.

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