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Oregon Man To Sue Government Over Clandestine Tracking Device

September 14, 2010 by  

Oregon man to sue government over clandestine tracking deviceJuan Pineda-Moreno of Oregon, who was arrested and charged for allegedly growing marijuana, is planning to petition the Supreme Court over a recent lower court decisions that allowed evidence from a tracking device the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) secretly installed under his car.

DEA agents, who did not have a warrant, began tracking Pineda-Moreno in 2007 and arrested him based on GPS data from the device that showed he traveled to an area where marijuana was being grown, according to media reports.

Now, after the recent Federal appeals court ruling in the government agency’s favor, the man is reportedly planning to seek recourse at the Supreme Court on the basis that the surveillance violated his Fourth Amendment rights.

The amendment is part of the Bill of Rights that protects citizens against unreasonable search and seizure.

Chief Justice Alex Kozinsky, who presented a dissenting opinion in last month’s ruling at the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, wrote that "there is something creepy and un-American about such clandestine and underhanded behavior," quoted by the Mail Tribune.ADNFCR-1961-ID-19938944-ADNFCR

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  • J.M.R.

    yes sir lets tie our law enforcements hands to protect the criminals looks like judges are as corrupt as the head dick-tater.

    • larryh

      Tie our law enforcements hands?
      Are you smoking some of what the man is accused of growing?
      The “law enforcement” SNUCK onto HIS PRIVATE PROPERTY-with NO WARRANT, placed a GPS tracking device on his car,and MONITORED ALL of the mans MOVEMENTS-EVERYWHERE he went?

      HOW does this NOT VIOLATE the 4th amendment right to be protected from UNREASONABLE SEARCH and seizure? Did the “law enforcement” have PROOF? Did they have enough evidence to obtain a warrant? NO.

      • William

        larryh you seem to know all of the facts involving this case so you tell us. how did they come to the conclusion he was involved in the trade? are you saying they just randomly chose this person to see what his actions were?

        • Dr. Mabuse

          I’m assuming at the beginning of this case, law enforcement probably used the allegation suspicion of cultivation and trafficking as the probable cause for the search. If this is the case, then his 4th Amendment rights technically weren’t violated. I base this on the adjudication Pineda-Moreno is appealing.
          Abuses of our 4th Amendment rights are becoming more commonplace, guys like Pineda-Moreno just make it easier for the cops to get away with “dirty” tactics.
          Are far as the cops are concerned, its too bad that there’s a bunch of azzholes in their ranks. It makes life miserable for the decent people in law enforcement.

          • Bruce D.

            If they had probably cause they should have went to a judge to okay it. No good can come out of doing away with oversight of police.

      • Tom Wyckoff

        My first response to this article was,,, HooYah! for the cops! I don’t know what the complete details are on this arrest or charges against that man. I only hope the agents were smart enough to actually get hard evidence before they cuffed him. from the drift of the article, it would not have been good policy to bust him based only on the fact they traced him to a pot garden without laying eyes on him to observe his actions and get photos of any illegal acts he may have been involved in. sure, I’m all for protecting our fourth amendment rights and all the rest of our rights as Americans. Those of you that fear getting caught are the only ones beefing about this guy. Hell, if he is guilty of drug law violations, hang his ass from the yardarm! My advise to all you cry-babies,,, get a life! If your NOT doing something that gets you in trouble,,, stop worrying about the small [offensive word removed]. There are much larger crimes taking place everyday right under your noises,,, by the corrupt politicians YOU put into power and YOU are too damn lazy to keep watch on them. A bit of vigilance and action there will go a damn sight further then your petty [offensive word removed] here. Man up,,, be somebody and become an American Patriot, while you still can before socialistic/communistic politicians really rob you of more or all your freedoms.

        • Bruce D.

          Tom,
          You talk out of both sides of your mouth. A corrupt politician is one that does not faithfully obey the Constitution. Then you go on to say it is okay not to follow the Constitution if you are a cop or a judge. Most want the crimminals in jail but we do not want government to become crimminals to do it. Once you start down that path it is very dangerous. “The more corrupt thr government the numerous the laws.” Tacitus 100 AD It is possible one day you will become a criminal Tom because some politician doesn’t like your idea of Patriotism.

        • Steve

          You are correct that to many informed people are just too LAZY to vote. End result, we that do vote for rational laws are at the mercy of the “Do-gooders” & “Know-nothingers” that do vote without KNOWING amymore that what is printed on the ballot. Nothing is worse than an a fully UNINFORMED voter!

      • J.M.R.

        i guess you never heard of fly overs with heat seeking equipment that would tell if the weed is grown on is property

      • Andy Howey

        How do you know that they snuck onto his property? The article didn’t say that. If he’s parked in a public place, what’s to stop them from planting the device there?

    • Judson

      Why aren’t you guys fighting against the bureaucracy that is really causing the problem? Criminals are already so protected by the GOVT, you will not raise a finger to stop the destruction of the Second Amendment but you want the clowns in the white house and the UN to take away or guns. How about doing some old fashion police work for busting these guys. I have no problem with going the extra mile to ensure our safety but your elected officials (Mostly Democrats)have done more damage to personal liberty than any terrorist has done. The death toll of Americans with Illegal immigrants is similar to the cost of war that we are not allowed to fight…So please, we may care about you cops more you care about yourselves. I have a great Idea, how about Severe prosecution for “USERS” I guarantee the use and the Trafficking of drugs will decrease tremendously.

      • Bob

        Now the cops can monitor your movement from the donut shop with a hand held tracking device.

      • William

        I agree with you Judson. stiff penaltys for users and even stiffer penaltys for dealers and growers, and no more clinics for users at tax payers expense, if they want treetment let them pay for it,

        • http://www.personalliberty.com Scott

          I think all the illicit money law enforcement gets from the dealers cash, cars etc. should be used to pay for the users treatment.

          • Steve

            Yes, Scott, what you really are talking about is LEGALIZED THIEFT, by the cops.

      • LocalYokel

        About 10 years back construction of rehabilitation facilities was the fastest growing industry in the country. You may be amazed at the number of high ranking executives of then existing rehabilitation institutions were heavily invested in this industry. Today these “pea farms” are all over filled with USERS and are forced to release them to make room for those convicted of more serious crimes. Maybe you could elaborate on your “severe prosecution” idea since drug usage has paralleled incarceration while making rehabilitation czars more able to invest in government guaranteed success with YOUR tax money. The effort of the “mules” transporting 20 kilo back packs into the south west or those building disposable submarines to bring in the heavy stuff from the gulf or even the walkover lumpy Grandmother with 30 pounds of cocaine taped to her body should convince anyone that some will always strive to meet demand with supply. Just what measures would you consider severe enough to fix the problem, execution?

      • Bruce D.

        Judson, our jails are full now with drug offenders. We cannot build enough prisions to put them in jail for longer periods of time. I think drugs users should only get time for drug rehibilitation if they are not caught doing another crime in the process. This would free up jails to put sellers of drugs in there for longer periods. Say 5 years 1st offense and 10 years second offense. Taking drugs is mostly a crime against oneself. Selling drugs is a crime against others.

        • http://LibertyDigest wllmwltn

          It’s pretty obvious to tell which of you bleeding heart liberals are the offender types…. It’s too hard for you to cover-up, you are USERS….and these actions are only making you run scared…!!!

          • Bruce D.

            Wllmwltn, I do not take drugs. Not even medical drugs. I am more interested in health and herbal remedies. You just have no idea what you are talking about and fail to grasp the issue. A police state is not the answer to anything. It just enable government to turn to crime. Your views are short sited.

      • 1955 The Keeper

        Judson, are you older than 14? I work inside at the bottom of the Criminal Justice System and I see no end in sight for the prosecution of drug offenders. When are we going to see that the “War on Drugs” is as lost as Iraq and we bail out of it and start TAXING it out of existence. After everyone gets through ass slapping and high fiveing each other over a busted SUSPECTED pot grower, fill me in on where it is written in the Constitution that Law Enforcement has the right to use any underhanded means at its disposal to catch potential criminals? Don’t know? Well, it was a trick question because the Constitution is there to protect EVERYONE from the vagaries of a runaway law enforcement community. Even if there were enough dots to connect this guy with a field of pot being grown, connect the dots before a magistrate to get the right credentials to pursue the matter further. Anyone can “What If” any situation into the ridiculous, but what if the location they tracked him to was simply the only spot he could find to cheat on his wife with his mistress? What then? Are all of you out there far too dense to comprehend the impact and implications of ANY enforcement agency which answers to no one higher than themselves. They decide independently what cases to look into and who gets investigated without any checks or balances. Does the name Gestapo bring to mind anything sinister or unwholesome from our recent past? Arrest without a warrant, warrantless searches of private property unlimited detainment and/or incarceration. You have to remember that the Constitution is there to protect the individual rights of sovereign citizens and not society as a whole as it is interpreted in today’s world. It protects ALL of us. Not just the ones we like or agree with. I thought that everyone had to take Civics 101 in school in order to graduate. Obviously, many of you skipped out on senior day the day of that final exam.

    • William

      right on J.M.R. dont you know crimenals have more rights than you and I ? as for Judges. they are all lawyers by training so therefor all are proffessionaly trained LIARS. and a law proffessor told me and the intire class that. he said all of you who go on and get your degree will have the knowledge that you are proffessionaly trained LIARS. need I say more? how many lawyers do you know/ can you name one who isn’t a big LIAR?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        William,
        Not to insult, but if what you say is true, and you are a lawyer, then how do we know whether we can believe what you say???

        • TIME

          Joe, Great responce, You just created a new classic come back line!

          William, I know many lawyers that are super people and they don’t lie.
          My wife is one, she is so bloody honest it crazy.
          By the way so to are both of my sister inlaw’s as well my brother inlaw, and countless friends to include our business lawyer’s are both very honest men. My long time friend takes barter, for payment from clients that can’t afford to pay, and by the way I would trust him with my life.

          So No, not all lawyers are liers.

          I do understand that many are such, but look to politicians for that honor of high class liers.

        • LocalYokel

          Beleive Georg Soros. He buys them to install as judges for protection of other puppets.

      • http://LibertyDigest wllmwltn

        Quit trying to sound so intelligent,….go back to school and learn to spell correctly, you ignoramous @#$!&%*&..!

    • EddieW

      Then I really hope you don’t mind their latest gimmick…a van with xray equipment travelling around taking xrays of people!! The fact it on takes a couple at these high doses, to cause thyroid cancer, doesn’t matter a whit…let them die…they are protecting you from a car bomb…???? or…getting some juicy pics to share!! He who gives up Freedom for Safety…will have neigher!!! Benjamin Franklin!

    • allan

      but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments, then whats the point ?

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest DQuiney

      Hello. The rules of LAW were violated by the GOVT. . You’ll sing a different tune if it happened to you or someone in YOUR family.

  • Bruce D.

    There will always be illegal drugs in this country so the more important issue is what if government wants to put a tracking device on everyones car (just in case). Is everyone out there okay with that. I’m not. I agree with the disenting judge. It’s creepy. If police want to bug your car let them get a warrant. It not like crime will disappear if we tear up the Bill of Rights. We will still have crime and a ‘police state’ at the same time.

    • 1955 The Keeper

      Sir, I do not take issue with anything you have said. However, we have been flummoxed by our leadership to buy into systems like Lowjack and Northstar et. al. for our vehicles. Not only can they track your driving movements anywhere in the United States, they can also disable your engine or lock you out of your own car if they are told to do so by the right people. We give up our freedoms voluntarily everyday. And we think ourselves more secure, really? It took me a long time to wake up to the white noise that surrounds us and trains us to yield our personal rights over to an increasingly uncaring and dispassionate government that cares little of us except that we keep paying out dues to continue to be corporate citizens in the guise of taxes. EVERYONE! WAKE UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

  • s c

    Frankly, I don’t know who’s more lame. We have a ‘citizen’ who’s whizzing about being mistreated by Uncle Scam, and we have a judge who DARES to talk about ‘creepy and un-American.’ To the citizen, I say, welcome to the New Reich. To the judge, I say “stick it” (and waaaaah!).

  • http://www.hangingpawn.com/ Tim

    What’s disturbing is the rationale the judge used to justify the placing of the GPS onto the defendants car.

    1. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy for a car in a driveway. So the Cops were justified in trespassing onto the driveway. (This is actually commonplace.)

    2. The most disturbing part. The Cops were justified in placing a GPS tracking device onto the defendants private property (his car) because THERE IS NO REASONABLE EXPECTATION THAT THE GOVT IS NOT TRACKING YOUR WHERE ABOUTS.

    Basically you should assume that the govt can and WILL track your whereabouts.

    This will not go far in the Supreme Court. Hopefully.

    Tim

    • Sharon thayer

      The above is just the tip of the iceberg. We the people must must
      wakeup. This government has taken the worst practices of
      various regimes & right now use them on US citizens. They
      use Human beings as science experiments . Observing them for
      years. The laws are broken people are destroyed, 1st discredited
      to be certain no body will think them credible. Try & bring to
      the attention of others & one is left experiencing that which an observer
      of the atrocities of the nazis horrors lived & was able to escape. See
      The book Night

      • allan

        I don’t think it’s so bad when it’s a mehican we’ve had so much trouble with them commiting crimes where I live and then (for whatever reason) the law enforcement letting them go their merry way back to mehico. It’s enough to “p” you off !

  • Al Sieber

    All I can say is they have to much power and they’re abusing it. they took a lot of it through the Patriot Act, executive orders, presidential directives etc. to protect us they said, who’s protecting us against them? time to take it back or become slaves.

    • Dee

      Totally agree, but your last sentence I find to be pretty funny. Become slaves? Are we living in the same world? We are most definately slaves already! Always have been. And that my friend is what needs to be changed. I just saw this video this morning and I agree with it, check it out. http://www.youtube.com/user/aangelmichael?feature=pyv&ad=5807748514&kw=alex%20jones#p/u/0/l5Q-07BkNeY

      • LocalYokel

        True Dee, but don’t let the video confuse you with the simplicity of slave ownership. Owners have many names and many fronts.
        With your market value as a slave dwindling look for the new buyers. Let the news media be your guide. They’re under the white wash.

      • Bruce D.

        Dee,
        I find it offensive that you are saying George Washington and the ‘Founders’ created a corrupt system. You must have communist ideology. David Barton researched the Masons and said the corruption in Europe Masons did not come to America. In good economic times people should not have bills. If they do they live above their means or spends too much money on alcohol. High paying jobs on often based on supply and demand and a good education. In a free society no one is obligated to give you a high paying job if you work at 7/11. Nothing is preventing you from owning a 7/11 and you can pay people as much as you want. Take some responsibility for your life and you would not be a slave.

        • allan

          well said bruce.

      • Al Sieber

        Sorry Dee, we don’t live in the same world, I live miles away from civilization, so, I don’t remember much about cities or that style of life. so I don’t know the average day-day life people go through in cities. but I know what freedom is and what we lost.

        • allan

          seems like to me every time someone does something wrong in this world it isn’t them that pays for it but us ! let someone commit a crime with a gun and they want to take mine ! let someone blow something up and I can’t buy something I’ve been able to buy for years (like muratic acid to clean rust, or aluminum) because you can make bombs or drugs with it I am so tired of this principle in my life, all our lives.bust the one’s responsible and leave the rest of us alone !

      • allan

        this is right up there with isalami !

    • Al Sieber

      Tom W, you are a dumb ass, I said we lost our right’s through these actions we allowed to happen. I don’t need anyone to watch over me I can take care of myself, I was just thinking about “Pussy’s” like you making it.

      • Al Sieber

        Tom W, stick your “gay” link up your as…

  • http://www.becomingyounger.com John Walker

    Perhaps the problem is really the silly laws. Have a look at “The Union: The Business Behind Getting High” which shows the hypocracy behind hemp and marijuana laws – and the huge cost of law enforcement. These laws are presumeably at the behest of Big Pharma because marijuana has strong medicinal uses.

    • Alvin

      I agree, The big pharms are controling the laws so they can make alot of money. If this is the land of the free then why are we US citizens being scrutinized over and over. Its wrong. The growing number of states that are legalizing for medicinal reasons is a good answer and the fact that this administration bans the FEDs from raiding medicinal sites is a move in the right direction. The DEA just doesnt want to hear the truth becuase they’ll lose all their funding. so will the prisons. The taxpayer is waisting valuable money on the enforcement when the money could be used for better education which in turn will help keep peaple form becoming criminals in the first place.

      • DaveH

        There’s huge money being wasted on all sides of the Drug Wars. And on top of that, it’s ineffective. Oh, well, I forgot that it has been effective in turning Mexico over to the drug lords.

    • alpha-lemming

      Kudos to JW (black or red????) The laws are silly, but maybe not for the reason you intended. I’ll categorize myself as a “common sense” Libertarian (I’m sure there’ll be disagreements as if such an animal even exists…. sorta like imaginary numbers) because not ALL illegal drugs should be legalized, as is the common accusation against us. For evidence I’ll offer exhibit A… crack cocaine (there’ve been deaths upon the initial use) and exhibit B… PCP (the effects of the drug when used in its typical manner is to make you VIOLENTLY INSANE). Pot ain’t one-o-those. And the medical benefits are valid (not as a curative but for alleviation of numerous syptoms). We’re well down the “slippery slope” and things that are bad for you…. even if it takes 50yrs to kill you…. will be banned for the sake of societys’ lowest common denominators. I suppose we’ll have to amend the Constitution and get rid of that “pursuit of happiness” thing.

    • Meteorlady

      I have a really good friend in Washington State that sits on the Pharmacy board. It’s funny, he went into discussions about legalization and medical uses for marijuana if they legalized it. He was against it but after studying up on it he believes that it has gotten somewhat of a bum rap. The Controlled Substances Act of 1970 classified marijuana along with heroin and LSD as a Schedule I drug, i.e., having the relatively highest abuse potential and no accepted medical use. He could find no proof that this is true and wondered why it was classified as a strong and addicting narcotic.

      He also says the board spoke with some growers and the growers don’t want legalization. They say it will decrease their profits and that the government will take it over and regulate it so that they will all be out of business and big Pharma will get the nod for controlled production and sale.

    • LocalYokel

      Its illegal fibers are also the strongest natural fiber and were used for Columbus’ sails and building materials when mixed with lime and water.

  • Steve Dolyniuk

    First off, there is no mention as to whether this guy is a Legal Citizen or not. If not, he doesn’t have any rights, even though any more, it seems Illegals have more rights then Legal Citizens. In my opinion, if the guy was suspected of being a drug pusher, I think they were within their rights to put a tracking device on his car. I hope the son of a bitch is an illegal, & they deport him, or better yet, make him live with OBAMA.

    • William

      Steve T agree with you 110%,

    • Meteorlady

      If he’s legal and has a green card he could be deported after his sentence is finished.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Meteorlady,
        why should we support him for any number of years till his sentence is done?? Tatoo him and tell him that if he is picked up on the northern side of the border again he will be given the death penalty then deport him!!! Or we could always release him and let it leak that he was working for us against the druggies!!! either way, he will be taken care of!!!

    • LocalYokel

      Forget it. He’ll be here until they decide that he can’t vote.

  • Raggs

    Put you in jail prior to you commiting a crime…

    I can see that the next stimulus will be used to build new prisons for the millions of people that the government suspects may commit a crime within their lifetime…

    Boy if only Hitler were here with us now we could get some pointers from him on how to murder innocent people without a cause…

    Well maybe thats the next step?

    Why don’t we just micro-chip implant every citizen and hire 14 million new government workers to track all of us?

    • William

      raggs that sounds kinda stupid to me,

      • alpha-lemming

        This will never be an effective communication medium until someone invents a sarcasm font.

        • TIME

          Alpha your right about that. Good point.

        • 45caliber

          And when someone does, I want a copy of it!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Raggs,
      Didn’t you hear? Nine hundred thousand dollars of stimulus money was sent to Africa to teach African males to properly wash after sex. It was on the radio this morning!!!! Almost one million dollars that was SUPPOSED to be used here to stimulate OUR economy!!!

  • atlas reborn

    Al we are already slaves. the end of freedom started with the civil war. when the fed became superior to the states the country was on the road to dictatorship. it accelerated with wwi and with the roosevelt administration. johnson litteraly closed the door of freedom. much more is being lost to finish the evil deed. Sorry for america we are lost unless we throw off the bonds of slavery.

  • Lewis Munn

    I agree that first is he a documented legal citizen? If so, he does too have a legal right to expect people to stay off his property.

    If they have to sneak, they are presumably doing something wrong.

    But it might make a market for GPS scrambler to carry with you to prevent such illegally planted devices from operating properly.

    From a technical standpoint, could their GPS have actually seen enough of the sky to operate properly and accurately? The car’s metal chassis and so on would have reduced or eliminated most of the GPS signals.

    I hope he gets some technical help on his case. When in a truck, I had to put my GPS on the dash under the window to get accurate readings due to the metal shielding and reflecting the signals.

    Someone will be developing a GPS scrambler now!

    I disagree that the legal rights should be over-ruled by what he was suspected of doing illegally.

    Once we do this, even once, we have compromised the freedom of everybody. The government has enough top-notch scientists to figure out how to do these things legally!

    • LocalYokel

      Whom will be charged with what when one explodes while being retrived
      from a remote location?

  • FreedomFighter

    I dont have a problem with law inforcement using new methods to catch suspected criminals or terrorist suspects.

    I do have a problem with broad spectrem use of such tactics. Law inforcement needs good reason, and some guidelines for usage most Americans can agree with.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • DaveH

      We used to have the Fourth Amendment until we let them use the Drug Wars as an excuse to trample it.

      • LocalYokel

        DEA also has over $2 billion in seized assets without charges being filed. How much cash would you guess was exempt from any record with legal use of seizures by law enforcement cleared by legislation?

  • Steve

    Reading the constitution it seems reasonably clear the federal government doesn’t have the right to place a tracking device in your car, doesn’t have the right to take your guns, and doesn’t even have the right to stop you from growing or smoking pot….

    • DaveH

      The Government has absolutely no business in protecting people from themselves. When we let them pursue that practice we put ourselves on the slippery slope to totalitarianism.

      • DaveH
      • 45caliber

        I agree that the government has no right to protect you from yourself – even though they say they do. However, they DO have a right to protect you from the violence of others. And drug users will, sooner or later, get violent with family or others when they are denied their drugs due to lack of money or other reasons.

        Since many jobs in the US (like truck driving) require a clear head, it has been established that those who use drugs or alcohol cannot perform those jobs. When caught, they are fired and can seldom get similar jobs elsewhere, particularly when they continue to use. (Do you want a truck driver, high on some drug, come bearing down on your car at 80 mph?) Those who start using drugs, even if legal, are a hazard and will not be allowed to do this. As a result, such people seldom can hold a job (except a government job, of course) and have to acquire their drugs usually by criminal means.

        I’d prefer to give us the ability to lock up such people before they start committing all those crimes. In fact, I’d like to see them do hard labor – something that is no long legal. That way they would be more careful when they get out again.

        • Meteorlady

          After watching a special on PBS on the drug habits and uses in Europe, mostly Belgium, I cannot agree with what you just wrote. Seems they let the people that use drugs use them. They try and keep the sale of these drugs in an area of the cities that they can watch. They have low crime, the drugs are readily available and cheap, and if you want drug rehab there is a bus that goes through each morning and takes the people that want to go to rehab. Most just hang around and do their drugs and sleep in the park so to speak. Lots of them had jobs and went to the every day.

          They also interviewed a number of long term drug users. One was especially surprising – he was a 20 year cocaine users. He held a real good job, made 6 figures a year, and the drugs did not interfere in any way with his career or his advancement. This was not to say he was high while working – he was a social user and believed himself not to be addicted to the drug. I also learned that nicotine is more powerful and more addicting then cocaine. Funny huh?

          • 45caliber

            I believe the same way at least one sheriff does. Can’t think of his name. “There is no such thing as a social user.”

            They may call themselves that and only take it once in awhile but sooner or later they will use more and then more until they have lost everything. Would you want your kids to go to the park where the drug users hang out?

            Some minor jobs are okay if the person is a user – and in the US such jobs do not require or even allow drug screening. But some do. In Houston just in the last couple of years they have caught one school bus driver using them – after she crashed the bus with kids aboard. Several Metro bus drivers have also been caught – usually after a crash. Some truck drivers have been identified as well. Many times because they are looking for a way to stay awake and drive further to make more money they will take the drugs. Chemical plants do not allow them at all and have random drug tests to catch those who might. If you are involved in an accident one of the first things that happens is a drug test. I agree with all of them. Would you want to risk such people taking drugs? This plant has a 3 mile blast radius if someone does something wrong and the safeties don’t catch it.

            I’ll stay with not allowing them to use and put up with the drug wars. At least most of the time they are killing each other.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Meteorlady,
            Who pays for their drug treatment?? If it isn’t them it has to be the government which means the people. If they aren’t able to pay for it are they just left to die? I kinda doubt that. I don’t think we as a people should have to pay for treatment for something that is self inflicted!!! All drug and alcohol addiction is self inflicted.

          • DaveH

            45,
            Most drug crimes are a result of the Drug laws. Primarily, their high costs are a direct result of their illegality. Without the high prices the drug-related crimes would diminish dramatically.

          • DaveH

            Meteorlady,
            When I was in my 30′s, I worked on a secret project. The plant was heavily guarded and scrutinized. Guess who was observed doing Cocaine at a company party? Yep, several of the security guards.

          • 45caliber

            DaveH:
            You are right – guards will sometimes take drugs too. They try to weed them out – and send them to jail – but some always show up. When I was in training for prison guards, the woman next to me was there for the first two days. The third day she failed her drug exam – even knowing there was going to be one.

          • 45caliber

            DaveH:
            SOME drug crimes – such as shootouts between gangs – would probably be reduced derastically. But it wouldn’t do much to stop or slow down burglary, robbery, etc. very much. At most, the existing drug users might OD on cheaper drugs but I suspect they would still want to come up with money for drugs.

        • DaveH

          The United States has less than 5 percent of the world’s population. But it has almost a quarter of the world’s prisoners. And a large percentage are in jail for drug violations. Has it done any good besides costing us all a lot of money?

          And, 45, come on. Preventive lockups? Given that most of us have harbored ill feelings at one time or another, I guess they should lock us all up to prevent harm to others.

        • DaveH

          Funny, 45, that when I was a teenager, before they decided to save us from drug users, there weren’t any more traffic accidents than there are now.
          Besides that, the laws aren’t working anyway. Mexico is going to hell in a handbasket because of the drug trade. Where are those drugs going to? The United States of course. Obviously the threat of punishment isn’t deterring the users.

          • 45caliber

            Not in today’s world. However, in MY youth, there were far fewer cars than there is now. I could drive a freeway for thirty miles and PERHAPS see 6 cars. Now I can’t go a mile without seeing dozens. The number of accidents per car has gone down due to many safety measures but the accidents were certainly there then. But I don’t know about you. Perhaps you are twenty or so?

      • LocalYokel

        We’re already looking back uphill, Dave.

  • TIME

    I have little to say but “LEGLIZE IT!” Pot that is.

    The DEA are the lowest rung on the ladder there is little to no differance between the DEA and the alledged Criminals you all speak of.
    Oh yes the ATF also rates right along side with them, Then just one step higher is the DOJ all about the bloody same.

    So when these Criminals are held accountable for the crimes they commit daily with the farce of upholding the law, of what most of the alledged laws are little more than points to make YOU “SLAVES” and many of you buy into these laws like the good little sheep many of you have become, let me know.

    Otherwise your part of the problem and really no differant that Barry Soetoro that some of you clammer about, if you don’t know the history as in all of it; your just fooling yourselfs.
    If you have bought into the rhetoric that Pot is bad for you, then why is it you hate Barry Soetoro so much? Hell it was his brand of Progressive that wanted it made illegal, so you agree with the progressive on Pot but everything else you disagree with?

    Get real people and wake the bloody H up.
    As well the DEA and ATF, as well the IRS and DOJ is not law enforcment they are all CRIMINALS, or is that to hard for you to get your bloody heads around?

    • 45caliber

      See my comments below on the legalization of drugs.

      As far as the “criminals” in the government law enforcement -
      during J. Edgar Hoover’s day, Congress passed a law forgiving any crime the FBI might perform in the carrying out of their duties. So they could commit a crime (murder for instance) and walk away if it was part of their act to stop the criminals. The rest of the agencies basically copied that. That is still the rule today.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Time,
      The only way I support legalizing pot is for PROVEN medical need! We give in on pot, and next it will be heroin, then cocaine, then meth. Meth users are almost ALWAYS hostile and meaner than hell! Or PCP, horse tranq, they have even broken a pair of handcuffs on that, shot with stun guns a couple of times and still keep coming!! I can’t bring myself to agree with legal drugs of all kinds! I still think the cost will be just as high as now and higher!!

      • TIME

        Joe,
        You see I understand your point, as well I can’t argue with your logic as by its nature its what we are programed to feel and think.
        But I now feel strongly that THC is good for anyone and is healthy for people to smoke it or make oil from it for natural meds. Or even boil the leaves for tea. As well if cooked in foods it makes for the best sleep aid you can buy that will not harm you in any way shape or form.

        But the facts are I cured myself with hemp oil and now have seen nearly 70 others whom I have explained how to do it and they too have kicked cancer.
        The facts are that they along with myself would now all be dead if it were not for THC oil.
        I have helped now well over 50 people who had skin cancer, their doc’s still scratching their heads and yet asking no questions about how they no longer have the skin cancer.

        I understand that PCP, Meth etc. are made from man made products, crack is based from Coke I understand, and please do keep in mind I am far from an expert on these items, as I don’t know anyone who is into them nor have I ever done them.

        But as to Pot, I can tell you the following, I now smoke a bit to aid me to sleep, {lets face it with whats going on in the world its hard to close your eyes even to sleep.}

        I went for a blood test a few months back they also tested my lungs and their functions etc. my heart and blood, the doc asked me straight up if I smoked pot, I said yes.

        His responce was that I was in better condition than any one he had seen in over twenty five years he has been a Doc.
        My lungs are at 100%, heart 100%, zero blockage in the blood system. And my allergies are completely gone, as in I have no more post nasal drip, no puffy eyes, no head aches.
        Oh and I have 20/8 vision too and I am 60 years old.

        “Real Freedom” means the ability to do as one pleases, as long as you don’t hurt or effect others. Thats when laws come into play.

        Lets face it you can drive while drunk and kill someone and get up to 5 years in jail if even that much time.
        Yet to have a few joints and get up to 5 years in jail. Its totaly bent.

        Tell me whats logical about that. By the way this is not meant to inflame its just a logic question.

        • 45caliber

          Time:
          Morphine is made from opium and is a god-sent to anyone in pain. So far, though, no one has been able to tell me the difference between morphine and heroin – other than name.

          Many other good drugs can come from various illegal ones. But the government forbid any medical research in hemp. I’m quite sure if that could be done, we’d find medications we could use from it too. But using it raw isn’t the answer. It might work for some and kill others. Let’s get a little research on the subject.

          Actually, I think one problem is that the drug companies can’t sythasize it very easily. And that limits the use of any medication to what can be grown. As far as they are concerned, if it can’t be artificially made, it isn’t worth messing with.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Time,
          I smoked cigarrettes for about 35 years, starting when I was 11 years old. I quit about ten years ago and will be 60 this Dec. I just had an artey scope ran and even with diabetesmy arteries are 100% my lungs are 100% BP is text book!120/80! After my check-up my doc said she had never seen a 60 year old with the condition of lungs I have. Especially with diabetes! I only smoked pot about three of four times and found that if I wanted to get high, I could drink some beer and it was legal. Like I said in my post above, I do support legallizing it for a proven medical need so we do agree in that aspect of it.

  • DaveH

    They have been using the Drug Wars as an excuse to take away our rights and do gestapo-like raids on homes (many times innoncent homes) for decades now. Has it done any good? NO!
    What it has done (besides taking our Constitutional Rights) is to enrich the worst segment of Society – the Drug Lords. Money is power. Are these the kind of people you want to enrich with these futile Drug Wars?
    I was around before the Drug Wars started and there is not a single doubt in my mind that I would rather have the drug users, than to have the drug users, the enriched evil Drug Lords, and the bully police that sometimes brutally enforce the drug laws.
    Get a clue, do-gooders, before our Freedom is totally gone:
    http://mises.org/daily/2174

    • DaveH

      I’m sure these people would rather have taken their chances with the drug users, than to be caught in the middle of the Drug Wars:
      http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/drug-war-victim/

    • DaveH

      People got wise enough to eliminate Prohibition. Can we get wise enough to eliminate the Drug Wars?
      http://reason.org/news/show/the-drug-wars-collateral-damag

    • 45caliber

      I have to disagree with you on this one. At one time up until about 1920 or so, ALL drugs were legal. The doctor didn’t even write perscriptions unless he wanted to make sure you got what he thought was best. You would go to a pharmacy and tell him what you wanted. And you got it.

      Ever wonder why that changed?

      There is an entire vault at the FBI with records on this period, only recently allowed open for scrutiny. The reason they were outlawed was because too many family members (women as well as men – and many places more frequent since they liked such things as laundrum – opium) were ruining their families and committing crimes to get the few cents it took for the next dose. Adult family members who tried to stop them were killed. Children starved due to lack of care.

      The drugs were outlawed and the FBI was put to stopping the drugs. There were drug dealers then too.

      They stopped the drug trade by making the punishment so harsh that no one wanted to get involved with them. Things like 20 years on the hard rock pile. Life (or execution) for dealing and for crimes committed while on drugs or seeking drugs. Etc.

      It was decided that if they taught the children in schools why they eliminated the drugs, the children would be curious and try them. So they placed a seal on the records until a few years ago.

      Someone who was interested got access and released a report on it about five years or so ago. Can’t remember exactly. But it definately stated why the drugs were stopped. And it also explained why we can’t get them stopped now. The sentences are far too lenient.

      • LocalYokel

        You can bet your shirt that there were more reasons in mind than protecting the kids when the records were sealed, like $$$$$$$. Prohibition made Joe Kennedy rich running booze across lake Michigan from legal stills in Canada to the waiting mob for distribution.

      • DaveH

        45,
        That defies common sense. Supposedly drugs are life-threatening, right? Or, as you have stated, they may take the lives of others in a drug-related accident. Either way they can get in a mess of trouble. Yet the still do the drugs. If they aren’t worried about losing their lives or their assets, do you really think they are going to worry about possibly going to jail? Please.

        • 45caliber

          DaveH:
          You missed the point. TODAY most drug dealers aren’t worried about prison. But then? The hard rock pile wasn’t a joke. You were forced to work in the hot sun from dawn till dusk. You marched there and back in the dark. You were given food – maybe if you were a good boy – and dropped into a cot to sleep. Seven days a week. Got in trouble? You were likely shot whether you started it or not. A 20 year sentence meant 20 years – no parole. And like today’s Mexican prisons, if you got 20 years, you were lucky to live that long. Life? You generally could stand up to 10 years or so before you died – maybe. Prisoners preyed upon each other openly and were ignored by the guards. Trust me, today’s prison is a picnic. Yes, going to prison then was a deterrant. That’s why I said what I did. Our prisons today are NOT a deterrant.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      DaveH,
      Then get serious about the drug wars. Tell countries like Mexico and others like them that they will not get a cent of support from us unless we can do JOINT raids on the drug families and when we do just wipe them out like a war would!! Mexico would agree in a heart beat as Perone knows if we cut off all support, he is dead from the families!!!

  • 45caliber

    I’m both ways on this case.

    On one hand, I don’t believe the government should be able to track a person by camera, GPS, or anything else – even though they do.

    On the other hand, this guy deserves what he gets for growing the drug illegally.

    • Meteorlady

      If they were concerned and sure enough to place a GPS device on his car, I wonder why they didn’t just go get a warrant or whatever they needed to to that?

      • 45caliber

        A very good question. On the other hand most judges will not issue a warrant unless you have strong evidence. They may have suspected but not had any true evidence.

        • Steve

          WRONG, 45. All the cop has to do is to TELL the judge he ‘has evidence’, no details are usually required.

      • LocalYokel

        New schemes for increasing power for all branches of all government are to be expected. A level playing field has not existed since Al Capone was convicted for tax evesion on sales of liquor that made Joe Kennedy rich or for that matter the harsh actions taken by Texas Rangers in the assasination of Clyde Barrow. Just remember there was an intimidated rat used in both cases. Joe Kennedy only got a democratic party fame rap sheet as long as your arm. Capone just stfu.

    • DaveH

      Until somebody actually commits a crime, I consider the do-gooders that run around bullying potential criminals and non-criminals to be the aggressors.
      Try telling a court that you thought a guy was going to hit you, so you hit him first. That preemptive crap doesn’t work for citizens and it shouldn’t work for Government. But since they make big money off the drug wars and since most people think we can control all problems (we can’t), there is a big motivation for Government to convince the public that they are needed.
      I have been squeaky clean for my entire life. Took one drag off one joint in my teens. And I didn’t inhale (just kidding). Anyway, I have had many run-ins with overly zealous cops, and 2 run-ins with criminal types. I think I’ll take my chances with the drug users.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        DaveH,
        actually if you can prove you feared for your life it can be beaten. If a guy pulls a gun and says he is going to kill you, you pull a gun and shoot him first, you can go scot free!! The courts have exhonerated people for this time and time again!!

        • Steve

          When in doubt empty the magazine, or cylinder. Dead men tell no tales.

  • Meteorlady

    So now some low life Mexican, and is probably court appointed attorney, is going to cost us taxpayers more money even though he’s guilty. Nice. Love this country more and more ever single day.

    II think we need to eliminate the drug laws and let people poison themselves in the freedom and privacy of their own homes. Maybe we have drug laws because a lot of nicely placed rich people make a lot of money from it?

    • DaveH

      We don’t even know he’s guilty. At least not from this article. So he traveled to an area where drugs were being grown. Unless there’s a lot more evidence than that, it would be thrown out of court.

      • Steve

        As well it should be! Some of the most dangerous criminals in America are hiding behind a badge.

  • http://NONE Nancy Williams

    He has a lot of GALL suing when he was breaking the LAW! Im fed up with criminals wanting to SUE. Why don’t they just WISE UP and not break the LAW?

    • Steve

      Why don’t the COPS wise up and stop disobeying the law?

  • http://none Dave

    It takes a criminal or accused felon to challenge the law because he/she is being impacted by it. If the police never put an electronic surveilance device on your car, you would lack standing because you would not have been harmed. The gestopo type tactics the police used in this case were over the line. We have procedures for police to request a warrant from a judge for such activity. Without the warrant process to limit authority of the police, we might as well be in Nazi Germany. The government already has too much power. To violate liberties with no consequences would give them absolute power. Actions like those being contested must be eliminated or severely restricted if we are to retain our freedom. The use of pot is a different issue altogether.

    • DaveH

      We had better start practicing our goose-step.

    • Steve

      America, under Obamaism, is fast becomming a Socialist nation, fast on its way to Facism. “It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American decent into Marxism is happening with breathtaking speed.”-Pravda,2009

    • Steve

      Additionally, “No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unles he be vigilant in its preservation”- General Douglas MacArthur

  • jim capy

    I guess we haven’t learned anything from Prohibition, Marijuana should be made legal just as liquor is. Enforcement laws put millions into prison. Crime and corruption go hand in hand. Make Marijuana legal just like all tobacco products and crime and corruption will plummet.

    • http://none Dave

      I agree, but that is not the issue at hand.

      • Steve

        Correct. The issue is police corruption and their wanton illegal activities, in the name of justice. How perverted!

    • DaveH

      Once in jail, it is like a college for criminals where they can learn the best techniques from each other. Then when they are released it is extremely difficult for them to find work, due to their record, which incentivizes them to put that good education to work.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      jim capy,
      do you really believe the drug families are making all their money from pot?!?!? their money is in Cocaine as pot has too much bulk!! there’s much, much more money in hard drugs!! to the cartels pot is just a side line!!!

  • http://gmail i41

    If you drug heads want to legalize mary Jane, then check how as pot usage has went up, more AADH and mental problems in schools have climbed. Any time when you mention to doctors or researchers to check out the stats, they quickly move to other subjects. So neuter and deny driving privilages, have removed too many bodies from drugs, not achohol usage, as well as industerial accidents.

    • http://none Dave

      I do not use pot though I did while I was in high school and college. Both of my kids are well adjusted. One is married and another will soon be married. They are both engineers who graduated from Notre Dame and Virginia Tech and make a valuable contribution to this country. Try your scare tactics elsewhere. If pot were legalized, it should be treated no differently from alcohol which actually is far more dangerous. If someone is intoxicated at work, he should be fired regardless of the chemical responsible. If someone is driving unsafely because of intoxication, he should be given a DUI. But, if someone comes home after a full day’s work and wants to have a joint in the living room with his wife, it is none of the government’s damn business. Your last statement sounds as if you are on some drug yourself. I cannot make sense of it. I am not just talking about the obvious spelling errors.

      • Steve

        Right on, Dave. I could not have stated it any better.

    • LocalYokel

      You will find more parallel contributions to ADHD From legal food and water additives than anything illegal, but they are legislatively protected. A list of investors here is a curious subject also.

    • DaveH

      Why has pot usage gone up? We have laws against that!

      • Steve

        Sopply and demand will always win. Regardless of any law. Most of which are well-meaning, but ill-thought out.

      • Steve

        Of course ‘sUpply’ was the intended word.

  • nikenow

    It is a waste of tax money to have the technology and man-hours tracking a pot smoker. Where is the tracking of the terrorists, as well as the drug-runners on the southern border? Priorities, we have absolute morons making decisions, and high-priced morons.

    • LocalYokel

      Now you are onto something hot. DON’T STOP NOW NIKE.

    • DaveH

      Why? Because terrorists and real criminals fight back. Pot smokers don’t. You wouldn’t want them to really work and take risks, would you?

  • http://gmail i41

    Dave, first if the last part confused you, well that was the cause of several accidents caused by pot alone, one srvivor on the report stated that the driver asked the rest which way to go and as they went off a wrong ramp. Before drug testing was implemented loaded operators ran over saftey vested flag men, and even killed them selves backing off a hiwall. post blood was hot with out alcohol. If you wantr to get f–k -up after work in your house hop to it, but when you test hot the next day, it your job. In Colorado if a shop worker got hurt, they got tested and usually it wasn’t brew but pot, every injury in 3 years were hot tests. Brew goes out adter several hours and if drunk, take licence away for 5 years. It is called personal responsiblity, and don’t blame anyone else.

  • C.D.

    If they would have obtained a warrent there would be no problem

  • ReddFrogg

    Why would anyone think this tracking device tactic is Constitutional? Is it because it was used against someone who was breaking a drug law?

    Now let me ask you how you would feel about it if this same tracking device tactic was used by the Government to track you to a secret meeting of the Tea Party? Would you be alright with that?

  • John M.

    First off, if they began tracking him in 2007, they probably had good reason. “Secretly” installing the device, what other way is there when investigating a crime? The whole problem with the device is it was used illegaly! Did the DEA have legal authorization to use the tracking device? NO. They should have followed proper procedures and there would not be a problem now nor would there be the additional waste of resources on top of the cost of incarceration.

    We, the tax paying public, paid for the DEA to track this guy, the courts to prosecute him, the jail and prisons to house and feed him, and now for the courts to hear his appeal while still housing and feeding him. Some people on here support tougher sentencing. The only thing that does is give the prisoner more free room and board. Will it change what he does when he gets out? Probably not. Since he will have a record, he still will not be able to get a job to support himself or his family.

    The question that comes to my mind through all of this is: Why was he growing to begin with? Was he unable to get a regular job? If he has been growing for a number of years then he must be getting very good at it. If the government would legalize the use of pot, then these pot farmers could be licensed and regulated in growing pot for the government to sell/control/tax. Pot users would have the same penalties as alcohol for abuse, etc. Commit a crime while under the influence and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Punishment should be even more harsh if under the influence because the person made the choice to use a mind altering drug i.e. pot or alcohol to begin with. No, I don’t think all drugs should be legalized but pot is a pretty minor one, far safer than alcohol in my opinion. And no, I am not a user.

    The bottom line is, the illegal use of the tracking device would not be an issue if pot were legalized to begin with. The huge amount of our hard earned tax dollars could go to much more important problems i.e. protecting our borders from illegals of all nationalities from just walking in and using more of our tax dollars!

  • Steve

    Oops, sUpply! Fingers moved faster than intended.

  • Lost Dog

    You all are being tracked by the Chip Masters.

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