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Oregon Hijab Vote Stirs Controversy

February 18, 2010 by  

Oregon hijab vote stirs controversy The Oregon House of Representatives has voted to remove an 87-year ban on teachers wearing religious attire such as an Islamic headscarf, or hijab. While Islamic organizations applauded the move, others have criticized it for its potential implications.

House Bill 3686 passed by 51-8, taking the state a step closer to removing the ban, subject to a vote by the senate. If both houses approve the legislation, religious clothing will be prohibited only in Nebraska and Pennsylvania.

Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) said the vote was a "victory for religious freedom in the workplace."

"When this legislation takes effect, Muslim, Jewish and Sikh teachers will no longer be forced to choose between their faith and their chosen profession," said Arsalan Bukhari, executive director of CAIR’s Washington state chapter.

However, opponents of the law, including the American Civil Liberties Union of Oregon, have expressed concerns about the rights of students, especially elementary school pupils, to be free from "religious indoctrination," according to The Oregonian.

Similar debates continue throughout the Western world. For example, France banned students from wearing headscarves on university campuses, and there are plans to outlaw the full Islamic veil, or burqa, on the grounds that it infringes on women’s freedom and dignity.
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  • Lucy

    Will that entitle Christians and others to ba able to wear reeligionus jewelry too—if not, it’s discrimination. It seems as though we go out of our way to accommodate Muslims—-is there a double standard here—political correctness has to gotherwise io bouth ways otherwise it’s an infringement on the rights of other religions——all guaranteed by the Constitution.

    • Kathy

      Amen to that!!!

      • cr747

        Obama will have Michelle wearing one of those rags on her face before long.

        • DDC

          cr,maybe she should wear one it would at least cover up those vampire teeth

        • Joe H.

          cr747,
          that would make it a little easier on the nation!!!

          • denniso

            The most hypocrital Christians scream that their god belongs in public school,but not someone else’s god…well, this is what you get if you open public spaces and functions to religion. Is it really so difficult to understand??

          • cr747

            denisso, who are you talking to???? Yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • DaveH

      They go out of their way to accomodate Muslims, because they are afraid of them. The Muslims don’t role over and play dead for the Liberals like others do.

    • vida

      If I wear a cross you can see my face. As with most other religious dress or icons. A veiled face is both is a security issue and a pyschological issue. Even chaste nuns don’t cover their faces. Covering a face is an act of aggression. When a person covers their face they are not open to those aroung them and are hiding their identity including any emotions which their face may betray. Covering ones face is a pyschological pathology, it serves keep the person underwraps and unavailable to those around them who from visual contact can read the person’s emotions in their faces. If these things are seen as religious in their homelands, fine, go there and wear them. Here they are seen as offensive and setting back woman’s rights to the pre-dark ages

    • vida

      I suppose there is no double standard or discrimination in islam land? Wrong, they are the worst offenders in history when it comes to discrimination and no standards but their own or the sword. Just because some can have freedom there are those who will abuse that freedom to turn it to their advantage to destroy the freedom of others. This what islam does because it is theocracy a governing religious ideology.

  • Marty

    Are you kidding me???? We were made to take prayer out of schools— now kids are bringing guns and killing each other. They want to take down the ten commandments in all government buildings. Because it represents a religion that this nation was founded on. You get it, “THIS NATION WAS FOUNDED ON”. But now they voted in that the muslims can wear their headdress. Can somebody please tell me. Who runs this country?

    • Ed

      ” Can somebody please tell me. Who runs this country?”
      Barack “Hussein” obama! He is a muslum!

      • http://rbgamm@hotmail.com bob gammell

        yep, he sure is and always has been.

      • Chris

        Barack Obama is not a Muslim. His name is, but he himself is a Christian, thank God. I don’t think Americans would be stupid enough to elect a Muslim for their president, do you? After 9/11???

        • Joe H.

          Chris,
          He, himself, said he was!!! Do you not believe HIS OWN WORDS????

        • Jana

          Chris,
          Yes, I do think they would because they did. It is time to look at the real world and all of the proof that is out there. He stated we are not a Christian Nation any more. The Church that he went to with the illustrious rev.wright was teaching at certainly did not prepare him to be a Christian.

        • http://Verizon.net Bud Grounds

          Chris: You need only to do a little research on President Obama. His schooling during childhood, his friends and associates in college indicate he was schooled and espoused the religion. His college classmates also say he has Socialist beliefs. That is not to say he does not have the right to hold these beliefs but I would question if this is a good thing being our president.

          • denniso

            And Cheny/Bush are hypocritical ‘Christians’ who sent thousands of our kids to their death in Iraq….and killed a couple hundred thousand Iraqi civilians in an illegal, preemptive and totally unnecessary invasion that is not concluded still and will probably cost over a trillion $$ of your tax money…was that ‘good for America’???

    • Roger

      The US Politicians are afraid of the minorities who seem to get what ever they want. From imagration to diversity to taking the ten Commandments out of our courts to taking prayer & Pledge of Allegense out of our school.
      God help us if this continues. Oh, was it alright to say God??? You get the idea.

    • phred

      Marty, I almost called you an idiot, but I know your preacher has taught you this deficate. The UNITED STATES of aMERICA was NOT founded on your $%*%*%*56 religion, but on religious freedomfor all. Read the preamble to the Treaty of Ghent if you doubt me. I think it was Thomas Jefferson, also, who said, in a paraphrase about that preamble, that, “The United States is NOT and was never meant to be a Chrisitan Nation.”
      Have your religion, but stop trying to force it on me. The founders wanted to AVOID a theocratic dictatorship, and I thank them for that!

      • Joe H.

        Phred,
        and if they keep bending over backward to the Muslims a theocratic dictatorship is exactly what we will have and believe me you will dislike it a hell of a lot less than our religeon!!!!

        • phred

          No I won’t JoeH. Your religion is EVERY BIT as full of hate as is Islam. Your “fundamentalists” are every bit as willing to kill to preserve their “way of life” as are the radical Muslims. Hate is hate regardless of where it comes from. I know you’ll do your best to defend your religion, and its practitioners. I will, also, defend their right to practice. But, in doing so, one has to, also, defend the SAME rights for EVERYBODY. As soon as you try to deny a right, ANY right, to one person, or any group, you have begun a process of denying rights to everybody. And this continuance of insisting that the United States is, somehow, a “Christian Country” is doing just that, denying the religious freedoms of anybody who believes otherwise.

          • Jana

            phred,
            We don’t mind them practicing their religion. What we mind is they want to take our rights away from us to practice our religion. This is why it is so unsettling. They keep demanding more and more rights while ours are being taken from us.
            We are not to wear religious jewelry. They are allowed to wear their religious garb. We are not to pray or hold Bible studies at Schools or Colleges/Universities while Islam marches forward and has separate rooms for them to pray in. In some places they even have classes for the non Islamics to study Islam. They also have foot washing rooms.
            It goes on and on.
            Another point, they have stated that they think we are the infidels and it is part of their religious Jihad to kill all infidels.

            We certainly don’t intend to tell you that you have to worship God or study the Bible, but they intend on telling you that you must worship allah and study the qu’ran. It is at this moment your choice, but if they get their way it won’t be your choice for long.

          • cr747

            phred, I don’t think Joe H is talking about religion when He says, you won’t like it.. Are you Joe H????????????????

          • carol

            Phred, despite what you interpret as religion does not matter, you have a right in this Christian principled nation to worship the way you choose. However, we Americans are a Christian Nation and Our historical documents will educate you that our countries laws and policies were firmly rooted in “Biblical” principles. From Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Adams, Roger Sherman, etc., who wrote our documents which created our foundation which became like a fine tapestry in the beginning and throughout out history. Those Documents can be found and read on David Barton’s website “Wallbuilders” Mr. Barton is a historical and constitutional expert and the actual writings are available there.
            Some additional “proof” that our Founding Fathers intended this nation to be principled on Christianity, would be at the top of our US Supreme Court Building is a carving with a row of world law givers facing inward to Moses holding the Ten Commandments. Also, the Ten Commandments are carved on the doors of the Supreme Courtroom and again over the head of where the judge sits. Many Bible verses are etched on many Federal buildings and monuments throughout Washington, DC. Our session of Congress starts out with a Christian Prayer, and our Pledge of Allegiance is “Under God”.

            James Madison founder of our Constitution wrote “We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the TEN COMMANDMENTS OF GOD”.

            So phred, be grateful to our Founding Fathers that our rights come from God and NOT man. This is why you do not see people trying to get out or lining up to get into other countries. Not yet anyway, unless political correctness is not stopped and COMMON SENSE is restored to our Republic, which is NOT a Democracy, by the way.

            One more thing phred, why so must intolerance and anger against those who do not think like you. You are allowed to think and worship however you choose in this Christian nation and that should make you Happy.

            God Bless
            Carol

            PS. Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise. In this sense and to this extent, our civilizations and our institutions are emphatically Christian. — Holy Trinity v. U. S. (Supreme Court) Richmond v. Moore, Illinois Supreme Court, 1883)
            “we may with one heart and voice humbly implore His gracious and free pardon through Jesus Christ, supplicating His Divine aid . . . [and] above all to cause the religion of Jesus Christ, in its true spirit, to spread far and wide till the whole earth shall be filled with His glory”.John Quincy Adams

      • s c

        Phred, now that you’ve covered the Treaty of Ghent’s Preamble, re-read the rest of the document. That treaty opened the door for giving “preferred” religious groups undeserved protected status. At the same time, it opened the door for master
        manipulators and politicians to dump on any religious group for any reason. In effect, we are just now starting to pay for this loophole.
        It has much in common with the rank incompetence American trade experts use in trying to secure internatinal trade treaties. We get screwed time after time, and our enemies get to step in and bend us over at their whim.

        • phred

          so you’re saying the Preamble I cited should simply be ignored? On what basis—maybe because it denies what a lot of folks here are saying (?), i.e., that the U.S. is a Christian nation?
          Comments on the entire treaty would send this discussion into, at least, 2012, and is not germane to what we are talking about. it DOES go to show that the founders did NOT base our country on the religion of Christianity, and I am sick to death of reading that in every 4th or 5th post!

          • cr747

            phred,, if you don’t like reading it,,turn your computer off..SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • http://personallibertydigest dan

        Phred,we were already founded as a nation by the time the treaty of ghent was agreed to by our congress (1815)so I don”t think your argument holds water.

        • phred

          that’s got to be the most idiotic argument I’ve ever seen! he country was NOT founded—”is not and was NEVER MEANT TO BE”—on Christianity regardless of how long it was established before ANY treaty. Check you IQ, I think it may have gone south!

      • cr747

        phred,,is anyone holding a gun on you telling you to worship..This country WAS founded to be a Christian Nation..Why do you think it is on our money,,IN GOD WE TRUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Castloo

    Things will continue to go this way until we stand up and say no. We’ve allowed things to get in the shape they’re in.

    • http://rbgamm@hotmail.com bob gammell

      Agreed, send a NO msg to every state legislature and the governor. NEW elections are coming soon. These entitlement programs they have voted for themselves and their party members are bankrupting most states.
      Use the Freedom of Information law to look at what all state employees receive when they retire. These entitlements per person will shock you and need to be overturned.

      Only a new legislature and governor will do it. In one local town outside Boston,MA on the east coast, they learned that 77 policemen retired in the last 2 years and were receiving over $125,000 tax free retirement dollars per year each, plus full medical benefits for them and their spouses.Assume they all live another 20 years as most took early full retirement and are under the age of 55, the city will have to pay them over “6 MILLION EACH”. What a country.

  • Marilyn

    This is America, the good ole US of A.
    take it or leave it !
    we want our children and grand children taught with Our cultures in our school systems.

    • Dale

      I wish I had the money to run for office. I would love the opportunity to do what is right. It would be a simple job too, just follow the rules written in the Bible.

      • phred

        It sounds like most of you want to set up a dictatorship of the Christian following. What a bunch a hypocrits!
        BTW, I’d really like to look into this “ban removal” and see if teachers, etc. in Oregon were wearing their crucifixes, and other Christian jewelry for the past 87 years. While I don’t, personally, care, I’d bet that almost every poster here would find that completely okay, in spite of the law.
        In other words, “My religion and its following and artifacts, and preaching is TOTALLY okay, but let someone else practice or display THEIRS and, ohmigod, we must not only stop that, but make it a capital offense!”
        Frankly, I am quite sick and tired of the religious bigotry of so many of you. Christian plays in December in schools paid for by EVERYBODY, some of whom are nonChristian—hey, how many arguments have I been in over that thinking? Steal my money to promote YOUR religion—that’s okay with most of you, isn’t it?
        As far as I’m concerned it is time to actually try to follow what the Constitution speaks to, and that is FREEDOM and LIBERTIES, and INALIENABLE RIGHTS for EVERYBODY—not just for a certain few, and CERTAINLY not just for the Christians in the U.S.A.
        Indeed, when legislative bodies and law enforcement, etc. try to favor one religion over any others, they need to be stopped. That’s whether they are favoring Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, OR Christianity. Our government is supposed to be ARELIGIOUS, and if any of you wish to know what that means, please feel free to ask. Otherwise, continue with your ignorance of what religious freedom actually means. It isn’t, and has nothing to do with, freedom for denominations of Christianity, for those are all the same religion. Religion, by definition, would be Christianity, Muslim, Confucianism, Hindi, etc., NOT Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Baptist, etc. as some of you seem to believe. And when the founders wrote the first amendment to the Constitution they used the word “religion”, not denomination. I don’t think the fellas were that ignorant as to not understand the difference between “denomination” and “religion”.
        Each time a topic such as this one comes up, we hear the same bible quoting, bible misquoting, bible thumping, and insistance upon ALL of us following Jesus. So where is the freedom for the rest of us? You wish to take that away, don’t you? I, for one, won’t go down without a fight!

        • phred

          I made a computer error, the above post was supposed to be at the end (todays end) of the blog—but, rereading what went before—it belongs here, as well, so it stays.

        • myself

          Again phred, the burqa is NOT religous! It is a sign of male dominance over women, enforced by insecure men.Centuries ago. No religion involved!
          A crucifix or yarmalka are small symbols of faith. Nothing more.

          • Claire

            myself—-Finally, some common sense.

          • Jana

            Myself, You are so right.

          • phred

            They are religious artifacts—are you trying to deny that? And, if worn by school officials, they are advocating a religion. Public school is NOT the place for advocating a religion—any religion. Just note the bigotry involved with this whole discussion—Oregon is lifting a ban on wearing religious artifacts, and the BITCH is, that it opens the door to wearing notices of Islam. That’s wrong, and I agree that it’s wrong. But, by the same token, the wearing of religious artifacts of the Christian religion is also wrong. That’s the dispute here. Sorry you have missed the whole point!

          • zack

            (comment removed for offensive content)

        • DDC

          phred you are a dic.,’;-= Damn my keys stuck

          • libertytrain

            nice try, but too silly for me.

  • Diana

    Soooo….does this mean that my child can carry their Holy Bible KJV1611 to school without being suspended from school, or can they
    bow their head and say a blessing over their lunch, or pray with a
    friend. Well, no… we can’t go that far with this politically correctness. What a sham is being pulled upon this nation that is blind to the true agenda’s being forced upon us.

    • phred

      Diana, what you describe has NEVER been outlawed. However, such Christian luminaries as Pat Robertson pushed that idea (even though he knows it to not be true, but when has truth ever mattered to guys like him?), until they got people to believe it.
      A child is TOTALLY free to bow his/her head and say a quiet prayer at their dest. As, for that matter, is the teacher. as long as it isn’t done so obviously as to cause the children to notice and/or attempt to emulate the teacher.
      Maybe, instead of using a sarcastic response like this here, you should write to Pat Robertson, and many other televangelists, and complain as to what they did to that ruling. The ruling was that an official can’t lead a prayer in a public school. The reason is that would be promoting religion, and, frankly, some of us have OTHER sp[iritual pursuits, and don’t want our tax dollars being spent to promote YOUR religion. Your churches take in quite enough money to promote themselves, and don’t need all the monies the taxpayers can throw at such promotion as well.

      • Jana

        phred, it is odd that the very hatred that you are accusing “Christians” of is what you yourself are portraying. It is obvious you hate Christians. Hmm are you by any chance Islam? You sure sound like it.

        • phred

          JANA, I have a standard response to ANYONE who tosses out this kind of BS—-
          If there WERE a hell, I invite you to visit!
          What I am showing you is that your religious bigots are not one whit different from “their” religious bigots—and you, JANA, seem to want to enforce my observations with such foolish posts as this one!
          I have advocated religious freedoms for EVERYBODY—have you ever done that? Have you even NOTICED that? No, it seems not, because you are so busy trying to defend the hate in YOUR religion, while not even noticing it!
          Read what I say—do not read into it—what I say is EXACTLY what I mean.

          • myself

            phred, I agree with Jana on this …. I don’t know what or who you are yet when you post…I see ‘phred’ flags!!

          • zack

            phred sounds like you wont need an invitation

  • Karl

    Whilst some countries in Europe are considering a ban on the Burka, these people are looking at allowing it, what planet are they on. There is enough cow-towing to Muslims without this. It is a total breach of security.

    • http://rbgamm@hotmail.com bob gammell

      TELL YOUR LEGISLATORS HOW YOU FEEL, GET ACTIVELY INVOLVED AND HAVE SOME FUN. THIS NEXT ELECTION IS GOING TO SEE CHANGES FROM TOP TO BOTTOM. YOU CAN HELP AND YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT. STAND UP TO THIS NONSENSE.

  • Mike Przybylowicz

    Long Live Homeschooling.

    Until they take that privilege away too!

    We are suffering our consequences of being taught that Christians should not be involved with Politics, Government, Military or any decision making.
    What did that leave us with? Leftwing Nutjobs.

    • s c

      Good for you, Mike! Your kids won’t have to endure being indoctrinated in a government school. Odds are that your kids will be sought out by university recruiters (as opposed to those who never learned how to read or think).
      They won’t be ‘socialized’ by government educators who specialize in ‘monkey-see, monkey do’ courses.
      They won’t be dumbed-down or victimized by teacher unions. They won’t have to chase nonexistentjobs that a prez eliminated before they were ready to go looking for employment.
      They will be able to read, write and think on their own. They will be successful, and they will know they won’t have to re-educate themselves.
      They will never be viewed by a president as czar candidates. They will know the difference between real money and paper. They will love the Constitution, and they will see Constitution-haters
      for the scum they are.
      Gee, I wonder why ‘some’ people are so afraid of kids who are homeschooled . . .

  • George

    We are letting our enemies dictate to us what we can and cannot do. This is like letting the prisoner make the rules for the prison. We have got to stand up and say, “NO, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH” and if you don’t like it go back to your homeland and try to change things there…see how far you get with that. We are the only nation in the world that will let aliens come in and change our way of life, lots of the time they are not even here legally.

  • http://www.tampaweddingofficiants.com Rev. Ronald Turcot, D.D.

    Regarding our country’s politicians allowing these people to change our way of life, IT’S OUR FAULT!!! We voted these clowns into office, now they are destroying everything we, as Americans, stand for. Shame on us! When November comes, VOTE them out of office. We can do it if we ban together. If we cannot have prayer in school, the muslims cannot wear their heascarfs, Burka’s or anything else that is of a religious nature. The folks living in europe have the answer. Muslims have to be VERY careful in Australia. They will throw them out of the country if they start anything and their Prime Minister didn’t hesitate to tell them so. Americans MUST take a strong stand in November/2010. If not, we will be a lost nation and it will be our own fault.

    • http://rbgamm@hotmail.com bob gammell

      YOUR ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, CHANGES FROM TOP TO BOTTOM ARE COMING IN LOCAL,STATE, AND NATIONAL ELECTIONS. HELP EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO GET ACTIVELY INVOLVED. WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE. YOUR DETERMINATION AND COMPUTERS TECHNOLOGY CAN CHANGE OUR COUNTRY DISTRICT BY DISTRICT. WE ALSO NEED TO SPEND EXTRA TIME EDUCATING OUR CHILDREN IN DEMOCRACY AND THEIR RESPONSIBILITY.

  • Ed

    It is only another inroad for islomic terrorists to go undercover and blow up our children.

  • Ed

    Put prayer and the Holy Bible back in the schools. Take out the Unholy quran.

    • phred

      Sorry, but NO !
      Get ALL religions out of schools. they don’t belong there! Religion is a personal thing, NOT a societal thing. And government has no place whatsoever in promoting ANY religion, even if it is (gasp!!) YOURS!

      • Charley41

        This statement is the first statement Phred has made thats, what I believe and I am Christian. Relig. is personal thing and we should teach our belief systems at church and home. Live your relig in public.Ware what you want as long as its not security risk. Head cover is ID problem for driver lic.etc.I would hate to hear prayer singing in schools. Loud singing of prayers forced on the public as in other country is offensive. Better watch it that is what they will demand next.

      • zack

        phred why does society go to church then

  • Ed

    I didn’t vote for any left wing clown, only right wing clowns.

    • Jana

      Ed, hahaha didn’t we all?

  • Don Mc

    This is absolutely ridiculous! How much longer will the Lord tolerate the destruction of our great country? This is a nation founded on Christian principles – agree or not, that IS the truth! I sure am glad I read the last chapter of The Book … I know who wins!

  • http://Oregonhijabvote Michael Lazarz

    Islam females are demanding their rights to wear head scarfs because it is their religious faith to obey. In this computer age it is easy to check history. Do so, check history for the Islam religious requirement that females must wear Head scarfs at all times. You will learn that the head scarf was never a religious requirement but became a tradition to do so. Tradition is not a religious requirement.
    No head scarfs should be allowed in schools, pupils or teachers.
    Washington Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) must or should know that the Islam head scarf has never been religious.
    However, they state that the vote was a “victory for religious freedom in the workplace”

    • http://rbgamm@hotmail.com bob gammell

      IT’S OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM NOT THEIRS. THEY NEED TO CHANGE TO OUR SYSTEM AND RULES OR LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

      • cr747

        bob,,I agree with you..If they can’t speak English,, then go back to the country that speaks their language..Stop them from coming over here and start crying that we won’t allow them to learn our language..Learn it before you come here or stay were you belong..

        Maybe Obama needs to get his wife to wear one of those outlaw mask like Jesse and Frank James wore to rob banks.. Who knows when they walk into a store or a bank that they might be robbers..ENOUGH IS ENOUGH IT IS TIME WE TOOK OUR NATION BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Sam

        You leave the country, we will not. Since i am an American, my Government will build school for us to meet our demands and they are very legitimate.

        • DDC

          sam you might leave and not know it if you are an american i hope you speak english

          • Sam

            You are nothing but arrogant. You leave the country and i won’t and you can not do anything about it. If you disagree, then try it.

          • Sam

            hey you. I’ve been living here for the last 33 years, so as you can see i can speak better than you. By the way, i can speak 3 languages and not just one. beside, i do not care if you understand my writing or not, because i only want the descent people to read mine.

        • cr747

          Sam,, hate to tell you this, but if anybody leaves it will be you.. This American is not going anywhere.. For as I’m concern you can stay to, but don’t get in the way..

          As a fighter pilot I just got back from Afghanistan right before President bush left the Presidency to a Muslim.. I can tell you one thing, I sure did burn some hot lead over there, and dropped a few bombs, endorsed with Osama Bin Laden’s name on them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Sam

            Hey you arrogant! I do not care if you drop bombs on Bin Laden, but damn it,don’t get smart with me, you are nothing but a racist and prejudice person. Muslims are here to live a descent life and not to terrorise others. If i have the opportunity i will defend this country before anybody else, it is my country.

          • cr747

            Sam,,Welcome to the United States..May God Bless You..You don’t have to call people names!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Jana

      Michael, Certain radical Islamists declared that it must be so, and then it filtered down. The ones that are Moderates are too afraid of the Radicals, so they meekly do what they are told.

      Our rights are slowly being eroded away because we who know better have been silent too long. Now its time to stand up and be heard, loudly. I applaud all of you here who are letting your Reps know where you stand. It does start in your community. We need to be aware of what is going on locally too. I have been writing letters to my editor letting my voice be heard. People are always saying, “Oh, I read your letter in the paper.” The ones that don’t agree with me haven’t said anything to me one way or the other, but I get a lot of verbal support. I encourage them to write letters too, and call your congressmen.

      • Sam

        Anyone who disagree with you, you’ll call him/her Radical, especially if he’s a Muslim. I mean really, you can not tolerate anything about Islam. Go read about Islam, i am not asking to become a Muslim, this your right, but i’m asking you start hating Islams and Muslims.Just imagine, if the number of Muslims are similar to the Christians, then if you keep showing this hatered feelings, then you will contribute to the division of this beautiful great country and we won’t let you do that. Go learn

  • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

    Isn’t it just amazing how about 600 years earlier a Jewish “Hebrew” man named “Yahshua” appears on earth coming in the Hebrew Name of his spiritual father, “Yahweh,” speaking about the need to obey the 10 laws (Commandments, actually) of love and he is murdered by his own people for it. Then 600 years later a Carivan robber from Saudi Arabia comes, kills, robs, rapes, marries both children and a catholic Nun, copies religious beliefs of Muslim tradition (about Moon deities), Jewish tradition, and Roman Catholic tradition using the Hebrew Savior’s message and applying it to their Roman “Gods” with no actual Biblical Spiritual tradition at all! This “Mohammed” becomes a real “Superstar to the world and his NAME never got hidden! While Yahshua coming in his spiritual father’s name Yahweh with love and forgiveness and this spiritual Savior, Yahshua is lionized! Oh, the way of man! Yes, the whole world has been deceived and will soon find out the truth and will not accept it, like before! Only this time, the truth will win! Want more Proof: Go to icyweh.org.

  • Kris

    SO IT’S OK TO FORCE DOCTORS AND NURSES TO PERFORM ABORTIONS WHEN IT IS AGAINST THEIR RELIGION OR THEIR BELIEFS, BUT IT’S NOT OK TO STOP PEOPLE FROM HIDING EVERYTHING BUT THEIR EYES FROM THE LAW OR THE PARENTS OF STUDENTS? GOODBYE AMERICA!!!!

    • cr747

      Kris, well stated.. It is such a shame that we have stood back and let this happen..We can stop it if everyone who is tired of it will stick together and get out and VOTE-VOTE-VOTE in NOVEMBER 2010.. Even look at your state legislators where they stand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Steve Taylor

    This is why I am taking my business and am in the process of leaving the state – the state of liberal insanity. The government is out of touch with reality. Outside of the state, everyone thinks that Oregon is full of nut-jobs, and I tell them there are totally correct. Spend your time and money elsewhere.

  • nelson schmalenberg

    hello the BIBLE IS COMING TO PASS . PLEASE START READING YOUR bible buy one if you do not have one.

  • ArtinChicago

    If the alleged “religion” of Islam (a hate group by definition)can wear their garb…then how about that other religion known as the Ku-Klux Klan? Can they wear their sheets, pointed hats, face coverings while burning a cross at lunch time?

    • Conservative Carl

      “Sheets” Byrd of West Virginia,a Democrat, is one of the few former Klan people still alive. I live in the “Deep South” and have never seen a person in Klan garb other than in pictures. There are so few of them anymore and they are irrelevant, not of any consequence. Despite what people outside the south might think, you will find very few citizens here who care at all for the KKK.

      • Joe H.

        Carl,
        They may be inconsequential in the south, but they are making inroads in the north. There was a ralley in Painesville Ohio about three or four years ago and the city spent about 100,000 dollars in extra security!!! The kkk(small ks on purpose)went around in the early morning hours like skunks in the night putting pamphlets on porches so no one would see them, cowards that they are. They wanted to come back but when the city said they would have to foot the bill for security, they changed their mind!!! They are cowards and scum!!!

        • Claire

          Joe H–I remember the rally. Is Dave Duke still around? I haven’t heard anything about him for a few years. In fact, I rarely hear anything about the kkk, thank God. (I am using small letters too.)

          • cr747

            claire, I’m not Joe H, I don’t think He will care, but yes Duke is still around. He ran for some kind of office not long ago, I don’t remember what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ArtinChicago

    In all truth though, it is not Islam,the KKK or Communism that is destroying our country. The politicians that we elected are destroying our country. We should fire them and take away their pensions and health benefits as has been done to us.

  • jim

    I’m just curious. It’s a ban that was put into place 87 years ago. what was the reason for the ban that long ago, unless I missed it, the article doesn’t say.

    • Jana

      Jim, Good point.

  • Conservative Carl

    In the last two decades we’ve seen teachers fired for having a Bible in the class bookcase or on the teacher’s desk. Students can be sent home or reprimanded for having a Bible among their textbooks. The Ten Commandments cannot be displayed anywhere on school property. Teachers can be fired for sharing their Christian faith with a student in a conversation the student initiated. Shirts with Christian logos are frowned upon as is the Cross of Christ.
    The ACLU and atheists have had their way in removing practically every vestige of Christianity from the public schools, yet they are not concerned at all about any other religions. You every wonder why? Because there is real hope and power in the name of Christ; the power to become joint heirs with Christ through accepting Him as Lord and Savior. Our hope is not in this world but in eternity with Yeshua and His Father, Yahweh whom we call Jehovah. Our freedoms as Americans may be abridged by the government but they cannot take away our faith in Jesus Christ no matter what comes our way.

    • myself

      In all actuality, this scarf and clothing they wear is NOT religious it is really just being subserviant to their insecure males! This speaks volumes about the Islamic people.

      • DaveH

        I think the same thing. I ran into a Muslim group in a zoo on a hot day, and the women were covered from head to feet with a hot black outfit. I felt so sorry for them.

      • Jana

        Myself,
        You are so right. These men think all women are evil seductresses and think that they need to be covered up so they (the poor pathetic man) will not be forced to attack them.

        These people truly believe the following:
        http://sheikyermami.com/2007/05/31/female-genital-mutilation-is-part-of-the-sunna-of-the-prophet/

        This is a religion for man, written by a sick man, and its definitely against women, but these women have to go along to get along or be beaten or have acid poured on them, or even have their noses cut off. The women have no rights and sadly have been brainwashed.

      • Sam

        Please, stop saying that Hijab is not a religious symbol.It has been mentioned in Quran that Prophet “pbu” must tell and order his female followers to wear Hijab that is, to cover the whole body except the face and the hands. whatever comes from Quran is from God whose name is ALLAH. Even the arab christian people (in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Iraq), call their God “Allah”. So it is not a tradition, but a religious matter. I was amazed by reading your comments, how little you know about Islam to the point where they do not the differenec between Islam and Muslim (i quote that person when He/She asked Fred Are you an Islam, that made me laugh a lot bec it shows their ignorance. Eventhough, i do not mean to put down anybody, but the fact is only a FACT. We muslims mean no harm to no body, and by the way, i am an american muslim and have been living the States for the last 33 years, and i came from area of Jesus “PBU” place and no body loves him more than the Muslims, but we only give him the title that God Gave him.Christianity came to you, but as for us, it was sent to us and was not brought by anybody. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism is one only Religion and call to the whorship of one and only. There is not one word, one statement in the bible where Jesus said, i am God worship me! NOT even one!! May God guide us all to his path. I love christians, jews and everbody else, even though i differe with you of the concept of GOD. Thank you all

    • cr747

      I wear a cross on my neck 24/7, and I dare anyone to try and remove it.. Don’t even think out-loud about it:::Have worn it for years and will continue to wear it until I die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • phred

        So, you feel this strongly about being allowed to wear your religious jewelry? What does that say for someone of some other religion?
        This is a demonstration of a tiny bit of the hate I see among a lot of the Christian responses here!
        In a public school (paid for by the taxpayers, not all of whom are Christian, mind you) to make this kind of display is an advocation of a religion—Whether it’s the wearing of the Burqa, or the crucifix, or whatever. So, if a teacher, a principle, a secretary,a janitor, wears religious artifacts to work at a public school, it seems to me to violate the constitutional separation of church and state.
        AND, if one person starts the absolutely stupid and assinine and totally irrevalant “argument” that the words “separation of church and state do nopt appear in the constitution”, may they choke to death on their lack of understanding of the English language!

        • myself

          Again phred, the crucifix is just a religous symbol of a persons’ faith. Men and women wear them.
          Burqas are NOT religous. Never have been. They are just a tradition. Traditions are all well and good when observed in the persons home. We all have our own “traditions” but we do not force them on others. Yet you are also totally igoring the slavery and subservience that these burqas represent. Shame on you!

          • phred

            Myself, no, I do not ignore it. I’ve answered your “protest” above, and won’t repeat it. However, Jewish men will wear that little skull cap, and we know they are Jews, and that the wearing of this shows the world that fact. Ditto with the wearing of the Burqa, AND the crucifix. Call it whatever you wish, they are all pointing toward a religion or a religious acceptance. Thus they are an advocation of a religion.
            Your argumnet here seems about as stupid to me as when I was involved in a group discussion and complained that all religions are manmade. One guiy said, and this is a verbatim quote, “That’s true, but the Christian FAITH…..”
            Any of these things is an equivalent to tatooing “Jesus Saves”, or “Allah, Allah, Akbar”, on your forehead. They DO NOT belong in our schools on school officials. I pay taxes too, and those taxes should NOT go to the advocation of any religion, yours, mine, theirs, his, or hers!

          • myself

            These muslims are trying to impose their law on America. They are using the guise of religion. AGAIN….burquas are not religion. They are to signify who they belong to. Husband or father. They are PROPERTY. Nothing more. PHRED….you keep citing religious freedoms. You call MY argument stupid? Burqas are cultural NOT religious. When are you ever going to GET IT? I for one don’t want their abuse and demeaning of women brought to this country! That too is culture NOT religion. They have arranged marriages, again, culture, not religion. They want to bring us into the dark ages with them. If that is how they choose to live, they are free to stay in their own countries where it is the NORM.

          • zack

            what you wear ? a jock strap over your long nose. why do muslims woman want cover face. She cant see were going

        • zack

          phred,, the only one that I’m seeing any hate in is you..You don’t seem to be able to debate anything without hate spewing every where!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • cr747

          phred, I don’t worry about what it says about someone Else’s religion. I don’t wear it because of them, and to have anything against another religion. I wear it because I know JESUS died on that old rugged cross for all my sins. I wear it out of respect for my Savior. If any one has a problem with it, they might as well like it. No one has ever said anything about it, other than it is pretty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • cr747

          phred,, so you say it shows a little bit of hate towards Christians.. Well,,the reason I wear it is to show America that I am a Christian.. I don’t think that if a person is a Christian, that they have a problem with it.. If they do then,, so be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • cr747

        I Wore this CROSS all through school,,even when playing basketball in high school,, and also in college.. No one ever told me to remove it,,because they new better than to ask..My coach wanted me to play ball and he knew if he asked me to remove it,,I would have sit on the bench..Was never asked to remove it,,and no one will remove till the day I die..If I want I will be buried in it,,but I have told my Grandson it is his when I’m gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • eddie47d

    The blue burquas of Afghanistan are a potent symbol of gender discrimination. Facial coverings of any kind (klan included) are discriminatory against everyone else.How can you prove who attacked you? How can you prove who they say they are when getting on an airplane? I believe head scarfs and robes are a more personal choice for they still have to be searched like anyone else when entering secured areas. I remember in the 50′s and 60′s when most women wore hats scarfs and even veils to church and it was widely accepted . Then when the culture wars started it was too embarrassing and uncouth to do so. “The times they are a changing”. Don’t deny muslims the right to dress in a way that is comfortable to them. Much of their dress is cultural,not religious. I say we need more modesty in this country anyway. We should also fight for our right to pray in public buildings or anywhere else. It doesn’t have to be us verses them and another excuse to bash Obama.

    • Jana

      eddie47d
      I agree we do need more modesty in this country but to FORCE women to wear a burquas is not the answer. If we are going to ban God from schools, then why do we allow them to bring allah into the schools?

      • phred

        Jana, maybe it’s your education! “God” and “Allah” are simply two different languages word for the same being. Niether of them belong in school other than, perhaps, as a comparative discussion of cultures.

        • Jana

          No phred, it is your lack of education that you don’t know the difference.

          • phred

            I say this in a post below, but, Jana, why don’t you dig out a dictionary? The very word “supreme” indicates a single, one, a solo, can’t be any other! “Supreme Being”, which is what God, or Allah, or Sugmad, or whatever name you may give to this Supreme Being is naught but a matter of language. The characteristics your religion then claims for that Being, that is where the difference comes. So, let’s see—you claim your God is a jealous God, do you not? That’s among the absolute worst emotions and characteristics of hu-mans—but you claim it for your God, based on your “holy” book.
            Have you, perchance, ever even looked into any other religious beliefs but your own? Maybe read some of the Bagavahd Gita? Or the Quran?
            The Quran, in particular, parallels your “holy” book in most of its pages.
            Of course, that would require that you try to educate yourself on what you advocate, rather than to blindly follow, wouldn’t it?

  • joe

    Here is a curious observation about Muslims: Time after time, they demonstrate outrage for the slightest imagined offense against them. But notice how disrespectfully they treat others who hold beliefs other than theirs. They show no requirement on their part to treat others as they wish to be treated. Not a murmur then. Where was the American Muslim community when 9/11 occurred? Where was their outrage then? All we heard from them was silence, except perhaps when a few cosmetic, dispassionate official statements were pried out of them. If ever our “fellow American” Muslims achieve the political clout, or through our political correctness, allow them to distort our traditonal American values, our history and culture, do not doubt that they would impoise Islamic law, Sharia” upon the rest of us.

    • DaveH

      Very true. That is typical behavior for control freaks of any discipline. They would step on the rest of us in an instant if they had the majority.
      If anybody disputes that, just look up the countries on this list and see how much religious freedom they offer:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_majority_countries

      • cr747

        Just look at what we have got in the Whitehouse now,,a Muslim,,and look where our country is headed unless we put a stop to it..The sooner the better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Charley41

      Joe you have it right on!!!

    • Sam

      We do not want to impose our rules/Sharia upon you or anybody else. There are at least 14 million Christians in the Arab World and they live there with dignity and respect,. why don’t Muslims there impose their Sharia/Rule upon them and they could do that if they want to?! They do not do it,because God Said in Quran: No Compusory in adopting your religion” that is you are free to choose whatever you want. By the way, in Lebanon, where Muslims are the majority,yet the President MUST BE A CHRISTIAN!! do you believe that? Out of our generousity, we let the this happened. I can not believe when i read your comments, Man your hatered toward ISLAM is beyond imagination, i never thought that could happen in this beautiful land. People like you need to educate yourselves, it is just too much hatered. I do not want you to do me any favor, i want my right and i do not want any charity from you or any body else, IT IS MY RIGHT. You came from Europe, may be, i came from middle east “The land of JESUS, MOSES, IBRAHIM, MOHAMED and the rest of the prophets PBU them all. If you do not like it, then you go back to where you came from and i’ll go back to where i came from and leave this country to its original people ,(the INDIANS), if this is the way you want it, then let it be. Go read and educate yourself and do not think that there are no people to defend ISLAM. We all defend ISLAM. In addition to that, you questioned where were the muslims when 9-11 took place! Well, we are like the rest of the people here ! we were shocked and we hate those who committed that criminal act regardless of their religion, that was a barbaric act and we muslims hate it all the way and i don’t say to please, not at all, but i say that i believe in it and i love my country The United States of America, it is our America too and it is not your only. Don’t think you are the only one who loves this country! we muslims love it more than you. Stop preaching us, we do not need it because we are much more educated and more knowledgable than you. Your hearts are full of hatered, you need to clean it so that we can come all together and love each other, but untill then, you need to work on your heart and brain as well.

      • cr747

        sam,,I am going to disagree with you on being smarter than us..Muslims have shown in different countries that they are not very smart by killing themselves and innocent people all around..That does not mean that “you” are not educated.. But by the dumb things our president has done,,”him being muslim”,, shows to a lot of Americans that he is not smart at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Sam

          As far as i know, President Obama said that he is a Christian, it is his choice. Now, if he does something wrond, is it because he’s a Muslim?!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, he is saying that he is a Chrsitian, then shall the Muslims say that it was because he is a Christian?!!! we will not say that at all. Then, let me ask you, what do U mean by You and US? Do you mean Muslims and Christians? If this is the case then we will never understand each others. We must agree that this country belongs to all religions and do not forget that one day might come ane the number of American Muslims, Hindu, or Jew become the majority!! It is better to focus on the behave itself and on what religion i embrace or what you embrace. But if i’m attacked i will defend myself definitely.

      • DDC

        sam,
        don’t worry you are not going to force your Muslim, or Islam rules on the United States. Never happen. Charleston Heston,”past President of The NRA quoted,” FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS.

        • Sam

          I am not worried but you are! You are the one who is afraid that we American Muslims want to apply the Islamic rules or as you or some body like you, called it Sharia!. People can choose whatever they want, isn’t “WE THE PEOPLE”. Beside and as i said before, it is not my job to change or force others to embrace something they do not want and God, (ALLAH), will not accept it either if they are not conviced 100%. It must come from the bottom of their hearts. Even if i can force you, i will not do so and i will not accept it. It is your decision and only yours and no body else. But when you want to accuse Islam of …, then it is very logic that you, at least, learn first about their religion teachings.You just to the meddia and most of them are liars and hypocrits. Go get some knowledge

  • myself

    If this is what they want, then they should be teaching ONLY in Islamic schools. Not public or private. They should not be allowed to enter certain buildings and they should be monitored. Too big brother for you?? Not for me. We cannot tell WHO is under that get up. We cannot tell what weapons they may have. They have already PROVED they cannot be trusted. WE need to take our country back. We would not get the same “considerations and allowances” in THEIR country!
    Stand up an be counted AMERICANS before it’s too late.

    • Jana

      myself, actually, they are free to NOT go into public schools or NOT to go into certain buildings or stores.
      In fact I invite them to stay home. Better yet, I invite them to go home.

      • Sam

        We do what we like and according to the constitution of this land and not to what you like! Our constitution is the final word. If you don’t like it, then i invite you to go back to where you came from

  • Phillip

    If CAIR, a memebr of the Muslim Maifa supports something, you can be absolutely sure that it is evil

    • Sam

      Evil in your head only. When you don’t like something, do not call it evil, you freedom stop there because you hurting others, other american. We believe in whatever we belive whether you like it or not. I believe that this is the language you understand. Based on what i have seen and read, your hatered sentiment are spread and need to be controlled by replying to your non sense statements

  • s c

    It’s time for CAIR to take a flying leap at a rolling donut. And the state of Oregon [what do they smoke out there?] would do well to demand that their ‘leaders’ pass batteries of reading and intelligence and sanity tests before they can be elected.
    Hopefully, people who are actively devolving aren’t contagious (we do have a vaccine for that, don’t we?). Whatever it is that they use to get and stay high in Oregon is obviously immoral, anti-common sense and dangerous.
    My sympathy goes to the good people in Oregon who temporarily have to endure insanity in the name of ‘enlightened government.’ Is it true that this couldn’t have happened without the ‘services’ of the ACLU?

    • Charley41

      I’m in Oregon and there are not many sane people here. Because Portland and Eugene gets to call the shots. We in southern don,t get to count..

      • Claire

        I am in Illinois and Chicago calls the shots.

  • Dan

    BOOM!

  • Chris

    I am completely against this whole hijab nonsense!! A teenage girl in my community was murdered to years ago by her own father, just because she refused to wear a(word removed) hijab!!!!!!!! Is the US willing to witness this kind of genocide spread??!!! Is this what Muslim women want?? To be their husbands’ property?? Their whores?? Their PLAYTHINGS??!! THEIR PETS???!!!!!!!!!! IS THIS WHAT YOU LADIES WANT?????? TO BE ROBBED OF YOUR DIGNITY???????!!!!!!! OF YOUR FREEDOM??!!!!!!!! YOU ARE NOT IN PAKISTAN OR AFGHANISTAN ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    After 9/11–of which Muslims were the cause, you’d think that any rational country would not even permit Muslims to enter. What is happening to the States?? I totally support France and Australia for not allowing these stupid garments in their countries–”You either go by OUR rules and adapt to OUR culture, or you go back to your country. No-one forced you to come here”.
    This allowing of Muslim garments is a VERY BIG MISTAKE, and if the States don’t see this fact, they will find out the hard way.

    • Jana

      Chris, What you spoke about is called an “honor killing”.

      There is nothing honorable about murdering their own daughters and wives, or sisters.

      • myself

        I agree with both of you. They kill their women for the slights against their “rules” and they say they “have” to. This shows me that they do NOT value human life. Not their mothers’ ives or daughters.

        We cannot go into a bank or convienience store with sunglasses and hoods on, why should they be able to wear head totoe coverings?

        • myself

          Sorry about my horrible spelling, The Muslims do NOT value human lives the way we do, Not their mothers, wives, sisters or daughters especially. Do you see a trend here? Yes they place somewhat more value on the males in their culture. Who rules? The males. Look at all those photos of them in their mosques on their prayer mats, are there any women? NEVER. The men spend like 3 hours a day “praying” with each other, are they homosexuals? Do they hate women? Women to them are only for reproduction. How sad. Their whole culture is a mess. They don’t even realize what CENTURY this is.They live in the dark ages. Do we really need this in our great country???

          • Sam

            Shame on you. Sto saying that about Muslims. We muslims look at Women as the most beautiful gift God created, especially when prphet Muhamed “pbu” said: Paradise is under the knnes of Mothers” Means for a male person to be accepted by Allah, he must loves, respects and obeys his mother first and his father!!

  • eddie47d

    I am a decent church going Christian,but I certainly don”t go around bashing someone because their faith is different. I don’t necessarily like things about buddists or mormons either but they would be welcomed in my community. There’s way too much Islamophobia in these blogs. Did you know that 89% of all Muslim Americans vote. Which is much higher than for most groups.86% celebrate the 4th of July. 64% fly the American flag on holidays That’s considerably higher than most Americans.I live in a conservative neighborhood and it’s closer to 5-8% for us white christians. Here I’m a liberal and can’t get my neighbors to fly the flag. So who’s the Americans? I never see any of my neighbors dressing up and going to church. Alot has changed in America. When I was in Vietnam,some of my buddies called all Vietnamese gooks . I asked them if we are here to defend these people why disparage them? How is that going to get them on our side? Some of you seem to be doing the same thing here in America. What about our troops who are defending Muslim nations? How is all this trash talk going to get them on our side?

    • J. M. in Mich.

      Umm let me get this straight… muslims in this country are more patriotic about this country than REAL Americans? I guess we wouldn’t be having this PROPBLEM with muslims if they weren’t flying planes into buildings and cutting off the heads of captive NON-MUSLIMS or robbing the tax payers of this country via welfare fraud and funneling that money to terrorist organizations. Hummm… maybe I’m just being racists or maybe paranoid? NO I’M NOT. I’m being truthful so stuff it. Oh, and I’m a vet to. Desert Storm… we should’ve stomped all over Irag then and laid waste the entire region. That Big Stick Teddy R. spoke about aint much good if all you’re gonna do is threaten to use it. You actually have to use it… OFTEN.

    • Jana

      eddie47d,
      You claim to be a Christian but you don’t know what you are talking about when you speak of Islam. This is not a peaceful religion. In fact it is much more than a religion, it is a whole way of life. We already have in a lot of our fast food restaurants “Halal” foods. We also have Sharia banking laws established in most of our banks. They are already taking over our country silently and the ignorant people who think that they are here to be peaceful, when they are actually here to take over the United States just as they have been doing in France and England, just sit back and let them..
      If they want to practice their religion they are free to do so, but they are not free to usurp our right to practice our religion, and that is their intention. This is why it is imperative that we stand up and say NO MORE.

      • Sam

        Have you ever read about Islam? Can you tell me what the teaching of Islam is all about?Actuall, can you tell what the difference between Islam and Muslims? You just hate Islam bec they told you to hate it! that’s all! I have a Bible and i have a Quran and i know both what they say and preach. If you read Quarn just for the sake of getting knowledge, then trust me, you will not have any hatered toward Islam or Muslims. It teaches about good morales, build good personallities, being a merciful person, and being attached to your lord at all times jsut as like the Bible or more. You got to know that, American means Muslim, Chrsitian, Jew,… and so on. This is not only yours, it is mine too and if you don’t like it, it’s too bad.

  • Donna

    I AM AN EX-OREGONIAN AND GLAD OF IT. I HOPE THIS BAN-LIFTING IS CHALLENGED IN EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE STATE. BETWEEN THIS “INSANITY” AND OREGONIANS VOTING IN THE TWO PROPOSITIONS THAT WILL ULTIMATELY “BITE THE HANDS” THAT FEED THEM, OREGON WILL SUFFER FOR A LONG TIME. HOPEFULLY THE STATE I NOW LIVE IN WILL BENEFIT FROM ALL THE BUSINESSES THAT WILL BE LEAVING OREGON!!

  • Charley41

    Eddie47d
    I got news for you!!! You or we are not going to get them on our side
    unless we all turn 100 % Muslim..America is not aware of the Muslim Botherhood of Terrorists groups right hear with admitted goal of replacing our constitution with SHARIAH (Islamic Law) Please read MUSLIM MAFIA ,,..America Wake up…They out populated, killed christians off in Lebanom and now have the country. The freedom countries are most vulnerbal. Read Bridget Gabrieal, she managed to live through the Lebanon ordeal. So Eddie if get informed orget out of the way.

    • jim

      Hi Charley, If we all decide to just give up our religions and become Muslim, we would have to decide if we were Shiite or Sunni. The there would be a whole new reason to kill each other. I think I’ll take my chances and keep my faith.

    • Jana

      Charley41,
      You are so right.
      People you to need to listen to Charley, for Charley is speaking the truth.

    • Profw

      And even if we were to all become Muslims we would never be fully recognized as real Muslims. We would be mui arabi – not Arabic Muslims, there is a pecking order within the Islamic world and the Arabic Muslims are # 1 in that order.

      As for earlier arguments about the founding of the country on religious principles. A good read of the colonial legacy will go a long way towards explaining the reason for the Constitutional delegates creating a constitution that promulgated the freedom of religion but said nothing about being free from religion. There is nothing in the records of the convention or the literature covering the period that even vaguely suggests that the founders were eschewing religion. Rather they did not want to see a specific denomination or sect dominate the country as the case had been in Anglican Virginia, or Congregationalist Massachusetts etc. The idea being freedom of conscience. Yet we should also recall that the Constitutional Convention, notably Dr. Franklin, sought to seek “divine” guidance in the deliberations of the body – The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 [Farrand's Records, Volume 1] MADISON Thursday June 28th. in Convention, pp 450-452.) “I therefore beg leave to move–that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that service– ”

      To sum up the idea was freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

      • phred

        And, this is some kind of argument about freedom of religion? Typical tripe about “freedom FROM religion”—which has not even been mentioned. This seems naught but the typical attempt to bedazzle us with male bovine deficate!
        And where have you seen anything in any of these posts about the founders attempting to “eschew religion”? No, they were attempting to allow free thought, and freedom of personal beliefs. As for the idea that they were simply trying to make sure no DENOMINATION of Christianity take sway—these were rather intelligent men, generally quite well educated. They surely knew the difference between “religion” and “denomination”. And what specific word did they use in the 1st Amendment? Exactly—”religion”. Your argument, and the fact that you call yourself “Prof” are both rather more than suspect. A simple read (to use your words), of the historicity involved will reveal that few of the founders were Chrisitans, most were Deists, and the invocation of “God” is, again, NOT a Christian exclusive—a simple read of ANYTHING about religions would prove that beyond a reasonable doubt for anybody except those who have already closed their minds.

  • BonnieMW

    I believe in total religious freedom. That is one of the most important things as to why are forefathers came to America and left countries who persecuted them for religious beliefs. Muslims have just as much right to religious freedom as anyone. Allowing religious garb in schools is concept that can go both ways. Are the children being indoctrinated by the garb or are we taking away the teachers freedoms? In a public school children should not be influenced by any teachers religious believe but it is a question on whether their dress is an influence! I think if parents teach children to have respect for all but impress their children as why they believe what they do children will have more respect for the parents and their teachers.

    I attended a private religious school up to high school. There was a situation that happened that made a very positive
    impact on my life and made me have great respect for my principal. Some girls from another religion wanted to attend our school rather than go to a public school but according to their religion they had to wear a certain jewelry. We were not allowed to wear jewelry. Our
    principal called all the girls and parents into a meeting explaining how this was their religious believe and we should respect it but it was not ours. It was almost unanimous to allow the girls to attend. I believe we had an impact on their lives for showing them respect. American is about showing every religion respect.

    I come from a very conservative Christian faith but I show respect to everyone for their religious believe. Muslin terrorist do not represent the majority of Muslims in the world and we need to stop being so prejudice.

    • zack

      How you going to tell difference in Muslim terrorists and a plain Muslim?

  • Charley41

    Those people may not be hiding bombs or material today in clothing but they will someday when when they over run and control us.

  • BonnieMW

    Sorry about all the beliefs being believes.

  • http://gmail High Plains Pat

    Eddie, With a crossbred Mulsim in the white house what are you talking about. The US rep. from Minnesota was sworn in on a Queeran, and is a dem. That is what started political this correct movement in the 50′s. The dems have for years tried to remove standards from morality to decency and self relaince. FDR first Sec. of AG. was a communist and beleived government should control everything including education. When states started taking more money from Washington, the dems kept putting in more hooks with the funds and taking control from local school boards who were controlled by the county. The only time muslims back down is when force is used. American muslims are doing the ropadope in the US. And in Oby’s words is that he was raised for years a muslim. And as for Oregon, since smoking is outlawed, my guess from a medical stand point, their prolonged nutty behavior is from drugs bein inserted in a lower posterior orfice where most muslims males talk out of in talking smack.

  • Charley41

    BonnieMW

  • Charley41

    BonnieMW
    I too come from a simular background as you and I have a muslim that lives in my neighborhood and believe we should respect all people. And do, But when we give up alot of our freedoms and as a gov. give special rights to others such as Muslims. Then its wrong. CAIR is not our friend along with at least 44 other Islam funded org. Once again Get informed with MUSLIM MAFIA You won’t get the proof in main s media.

  • Charley41

    Eddie ..I’m not surprised that 89% of muslims vote because of their dedicated desire to out populate and control us..and they will if the rest of us sleep much longer..They have a good start with Keith Ellison (D)MN. and Rep. Jim Moran(D) VA.

    • cr747

      And President Obama

  • J. M. in Mich.

    Listen my children and you shall hear. Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,….. Do you remember that story from grade school? I don’t believe to many public screwals teach children about this important part of our history. I wonder why? Maybe because it will give them ideas about speaking up against tyrrany? I’m inclined to think so. Well, the alarms have been sounding any ways and I see tens of thousands of REAL American citizens embracing and exercising their god given right to stand up, speak out and attack these destroyers of Liberty! We are not however, to just challenge them in hopes that they will see they are wrong and change their ideas and motives. To believe that could happen is a fatal mistake. These “socialists”, these aiders and abetters of our enemies are fully invested in altering the political and economic system in our nation. They mean to destroy both and replace them with tyrrany. Any ideas of reasoning with them is futile. Dismiss the inclination outright! They are an enemy just as if they are a jihadist, a Nazi, or a communist. They are the oldest enemy of freedom. There is no hope for them other than to destroy them completely. Look at the progress of this nation and why it is so. Look at the progress of those nations, or civilizations older than our and compare the two. Now, do you want to sacrifice your standards of living and your success for what they’ve accomplished and live as they do? This is what is at stake and you better realize that you will have to do whatever it takes to defeat these animals. Don’t doubt what I say or dismiss it as some alarmist. I’ve seen the proof of what is happening and what is going to happen. Don’t be lamb led to slaughter.

  • Charley41

    Well with no change we are setting up ourselves up for the SLAUGHTER
    Apathy at the polls then when we get there we make the wrong vote.

  • Daisy

    I have heard more about Muslims in the past year than in my whole life. Why are we catering to them? They are taking over Europe. Nothing good will come of this. The president is helping them. We will all live to regret it. Time to take our schools and country back. Vote all the jerks out!

  • Conservative Carl

    If the Muslim women want to wear Hijab in their own homes and at religious gatherings that is their business. They can walk down the street with that garb. But when they’re on a job, or getting on public transportation they need to show their heads. They should be treated the same as U.S. born women in regard to our laws. In some states they want to have full covering or hijab on to have photo made for drivers licenses, probably also for passports. U.S. born citizens cannot do that.
    I read a statistic, if I remember the figures correctly, that the average birthrate for Americans is about 2 children, for Muslims the rate is 8 children average. That’s Eight versus Two. How long do you think it will be before they are the largest minority in the USA and eventually the majority. Not a peaceful majority either. It will be like in Muslim countries where Sunnis kill Shias and vice versa. They respect no one that doesn’t believe exactly like them and, in fact, they hate Jews and Christians. We should tighten the control of our borders and be careful of who is allowed in and in what numbers. We could already be beyond the point of no return.

    • Charley41

      I agree totally….

  • phred

    ArtinChicago tells us “It is not the KKK, nor Muslims, nor…” that is killing this country. You are right ArtinChicago. It is selfish bastards like those who want the united Stats to become a dictatorship for Jesus! They want all religious rights ONLY for the Christian, and to hell with anybody else. Thump the bible, quote and misquote your bible, praise Jesus, squeal like a stuck pig when someone points out what religious freedom REALLY is. Cry because someone has the termerity to wish you a “Happy Holidays” in December, as if NO ONE else has holidays in December, demand that schools put on plays related to Christmas, and Easter, and Lent, etc. then snivel your butts off because someone might mention Buthra in a religious sense!
    Too many of you simply want a theocratic dictatorship for the United States, thus have no idea what religious freedom is all about.
    No, I, also, do not think that teachers and other school officials should be wearing garb, nor jewelry, etc, that promotes ANY religion.
    Try the word ARELIGIOUS, for that is what governments in this country are supposed to be,. i.e., favoring NO religion (sound familiar?), promoting NO religion, advocating NO religion.
    Why is it that a certain bunch feel so superior to everybody else, especially in matters religious, that they feel so free to tell us what, how, where, when, why, how, and how much we must do or believe, etc. in matters religious? Because you use that book you like to call the “holy bible”, and because you’ve always heard “praise Jesus”, etc. you believe you should have the right to tell the rest of us ALL about belief, God, religion, heaven and hell, and, even what “sin” actually is.
    Well, as I’ve said here before, if there WAS a hell, i’d certainly invite y’all for a visit! And, as for this “heaven” that you lay claim to? If this is the exclusive club where those religious bigots among you will spend eternity—man, I’d rather be ANYPLACE but with them for eternity!

    • Charley41

      Yes I think we get over zealous at times and yes we would be happy if you acepted our christian beliefs but the difference is (for most of us)we are not wanting to kill to get there.

      • Jana

        Charley,
        And we realize he has the right to do whatever he wants to, as he is not being forced to honor God. In fact it is very obvious he doesn’t believe in God, maybe allah, but definitely not God. in fact his hatred for those who do love the Lord and for God are quite evident. We know where he stands already. Get a grip.

        • phred

          Jana, what is this superiority you wish to assume, in matters religious? Now you have the termerity to tell people that I don’t believe in God? Wow, what an arrogant person you are!
          God, and a belief in a Supreme Being has not a whit to do with religion, yours or anyone else’. “Allah”, “God”, “The Holy Mother”, whatever name you give this being, it is ALL the same being, since there can only be ONE Supreme Being.
          I DO think most of the ideas and characteristics Christians attribute to this Being are from foolish to belittling to IT, as your pronouncements are an attempt to belittle me. Seems you actually belittle yourself with such “conclusions” that you may jump to.
          I just get sick of, whenever a topic of religion, spirituality, God, etc. come up, people like you begin telling the rest of us things like, “This is the United States, a nation founded on Christianity. If you don’t like that, leave!.”
          The fact is this country was founded on RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS, among other liberties and freedoms, and, as such, should not be catering to you because you are a member of the majority when it comes to religion.
          Take YOUR religion out of the public schools. Take HIS religion out of the public schools. Take HER religion out of the public schools. Take THEIR religion out of the public schools!!! Do you get it? Do you have any clue what the word ARELIGIOUS means? THAT (areligious) is what government is supposed to be in the United States. And public schools are just one agency of government.
          Now, go accuse someone else of some kind of supposed assininity, okay? Or, try to find out what the hell you are talking about before opening your piehole!
          You mention “my hate”?? This demonstrates your hate, not mine!

          • myself

            Careful phred your phatred is showing!

          • Claire

            phred–Arrogance? It appears to me that you have plenty for a number of people. And don’t call Jana a pie hole. Do you realize how stupid that really sounds? It reflects back on you, not her. It only makes you sound goofy. We all have a right to our opinions. Enuf said, now you can come after me. I’m ready.

          • Markk

            It sounds like he wants to go after anything or anyone that is decent in here. All he is really doing is showing himself for what he really is. A hate monger and like that other lady said before-I forget her name- he is probly a muslim.

    • coal miner

      Phred,

      Right on.You said a mouth full.Christanity had a blood stain history too.I like to see all religions go and take the snaggle tooth moronic followers with them.

      • coal miner

        phred,

        I misspell Christianity.

        • Claire

          Oh Oh, that means a flogging!!!

          • phred

            Since, Claire, you invited me to “go after” you, but there was not a “reply” after that post, I have to do so down here.
            First off, I did not call ANYONE a “pie hole”, I told Jana to try to get her facts straight before she opens her pie hole. A “pie hole” a name used for a mouth, so to call someone a “pie hole” would be to call them a mouth, which would be ridiculous. However, opening a “pie hole” is to open a mouth. And, since Jana idioticly told y’all that phred “doesn’t believe in ‘God’ ” I called her on it.
            Why is it that a certain type of Christian seems to feel so superior that if smeone doesn’t follow their religion they, somehow, “don’t believe in God”? I can tell you why—fact is it is simple arrogance! The thought that only Christians believe in the Supreme Being? Yeah, nothing BUT arrogance, arrogance of the first order.
            So, y’all enjoy your belief in your personal superiority, and your superior ability to selct the “correct” religion right off the bat.

            BTW, it also shows that your arrogance keeps you from actually reading what is being said—or, perhaps, since it disgrees with your prejudice, you just ignore it. What do I mean? Exactly this:
            I have said repeatedly that religion and religious artifacts do not belong on school officials during their time at work, or during other school fetes they may attend, for it advocates a religion. AND, the part you love to ignore, I say that for ANY religion. The fact that you have problems with that is simply because you want religious things to be removed from the public schools EXCEPT those which you approve of, which, of course, is that of Christianity.
            So, continue to attempt to deny the religious rights of nonChristians, and when people like Massa O works to remove religious freedoms altogether remember who promoted that for so long—yup, folks like you!

          • Claire

            phred–Okay, you’ve vented your spleen. Now do you feel better? If a pie hole is supposed to be a mouth, what do you call yours? I have a word for it, but I do not and will not stoop to the level of name-calling. We all have the right to our opinions and beliefs. Get off your ego trip and get over yourself.

      • zack

        (comment removed for offensive content)

    • cr747

      phred,, our local super Wal-Mart was telling everyone,”Happy Holidays,” We went to them and told them it was not “Happy Holidays” it was MERRY CHRISTMAS.. We told them that the people that shopped there would go somewhere else to shop,,Unless they greeted the customers with MERRY CHRISTMAS.. They decided it was a “WE WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS,”and if they didn’t they where reprimanded.. We where tired of being run over by outsiders that moved in here and couldn’t speak English.. Now it is the American way,, or back to the boarder.. Even the Governor went home with his tail stuck between his legs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • zack

      we hope the same thing you go ahead and burn in hell i prefer heaven

  • http://personalliberty.com pat cowan

    I HAVE TROUBLE RESPECTING THE DESIRE OF A PEOPLE TO WEAR THEIR “HEAD-DRESS” SHOWING OWING ONLY THEIR EYES IN A CLASSROOM OR ANYWHERE ELSE. THESE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT RAISE CHILDREN TO HATE AMERICAN ==== TO BE PROMISED VIRIGINS IF THE BLOW THEMSELVES UP ===== MY THOUGHT ON THAT IS WHAT FAITH WOULD ENCOURAGE SUCH SEXUAL PERVERSION.

    • Jana

      Pat, I also have a hard time respecting anyone that comes to this country to supposedly make a better life for themselves, then refuse to assimilate themselves into our society, but instead try to change our society to fit them.
      The United States has always been called a melting pot. No its not always been easy, but we have succeeded in doing it. Now people are coming in to our country and expecting us to change to their culture. This is wrong. We will not accept it, nor condone it. We are waking up to what is going on and making a stand to right these wrongs.

      • Claire

        A few years ago, a family (from India? Pakistan?) was in a park near where I live. The mothers allowed their children to defecate and urinate in broad daylight. One of my neighbors told these mothers that we do not do this in America and they just laughed. I believe I posted this several months ago. Maybe they do this in their own country or maybe they were too lazy to go home and relieve themselves. I have never forgotten this.

        • Sam

          May be what they did is wrong, but you forgot yourself to. you do worse than that, you commit adultry and furnication in daylight in parks, parking lots, in the lakes “public places”, do you call that Civilization? you should a shamed of yourself

          • libertytrain

            I personally haven’t done those things (nor do the greater majority of USA people) — and I didn’t let my kids, or grandkids do their business in the parks or streets either. I don’t want to watch other kids or people do that either — saw enough of that in Paris. In this country it’s not considered an acceptable practice, and neither are the other things you mentioned considered acceptable practices based on the mores of our society —

          • cr747

            libertytrain,, I’m with you on that.. That is sick.. I don’t know where Sam is coming up with all this nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://personalliberty tina frost

    Oregon is full of liberals,its time to take this country back they need to sit down and shut-up. If these people insist on coming here-which I don’t agree with,they can leave their crap in their homeland and abide by our ways. Otherwise go back-for christ sakes.

  • Jana

    Muslims in America and throughout the world regularly lecture us about how we are not sufficiently “tolerant” of Islam.

    Students of the threat of radical Islam know how offensively hypocritical this is. America bends over backwards to be tolerant, so much so that “tolerance” has evolved into a corrosive political correctness which created the climate of military silence that led to the jihadist massacre at Ft. Hood.

    Meanwhile, the “tolerance” of Islam is on display in Saudi Arabia, where a Christian can’t publicly carry a Bible and a Jew can’t wear a Star of David.

    It’s on display in this video, shot at the University of California/Irvine, where radical Muslims and their sympathizers repeatedly shouted down a speaker at a public event. If you want to see the ugly face of the “tolerance” of radical Islam right here in America, click here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w96UR79TBw.

    Brigitte Gabriel knows all about this so-called “tolerance,” and if you’ve read her best-selling book Because They Hate you know her story.

    • myself

      To Jana……Yes, Yes, Yes! Now if only the MUSLIMS on this site would listen and learn!

      • Sam

        Ignorance is the #1 enemy for all man kind. Saudi Arabia does not represent Islam in anyway. Read what Quran says and compare it to what they do, they are hypocrits. If you want to understand Islam, you need to read it from its souce and to be able to understand it well, you need to learn the Arabic language, because Quran from day1, was written in the arabic language and no body has been able to change even one letter, despite the fact that there is a translation in English. By the way, stop talking about the Muslim immigrants (coming to our country), because those who become Muslims are those who were born here and some of them whose grand fathers came in May Flower ship hundred of years ago.Go read and learn and stop saying about those who disagree with you, are radicals,that is not fair and you know that. By the way, Jesus peace be upon him, is from the Middle East and he believed in ONE GOD, read the bible carefully. I challenge you to show me one verse from the Bible, where Jesus and not Paul, said i am God so worship me and i will become a Christian right away.

  • http://gmail High Plains Pat

    The muslim relegon or should a cult, was started by mohamaad. Who was a pedophile, his last “wife” was 9 years old and want all non muslims killed no matter how old or young, man woman or a baby. And yet claim it is a peaceful relegon, if teaching like that is peaceful I’d hate to see a violent one. People think they just need understanding, either abide by over guide lines or shut up. Same goes for wet backs thinking we must cellebrate Mex holidays, muslims will out produce mexicans annd soon it will be a stand off. Read a book by Bridgett Gaberial how muslims destroyed her country whick was prosperous and great until muslims took over the country and Christan were the minority.That is the reasons Palistine is a waste because the they are still in the stone age mentality like most middle east areas. Afraid women getting educated, and their imans are teach by rote so nobody thinks for themselves but follow the pedephile sun crazed brain dead thinking!!

    • denniso

      Most religions are cults and Christianity,as practised by most,has more than it’s share of violence…

      • jim

        Yeah like a crucifixion , just to save mankind.

    • phred

      Gee “Pat”, how much hate for others can you pack into such a short post?
      Christianity was founded by Jesus (not really, for I’m being sarcastic and using “Pats” post as a template here). This Cult was founded by a man who had a dozen male concubines around him, and one female. They all slept in the same room and bed as often as they could. So, must be that Jesus was a homosexyual, eh? He preferred men to women by a ratio of 12:1!
      Religions ARE cults—look up the definition of “cult”. Doesn’t matter what YOUR religion is, it is a cult—so why hate others for belonging to a cult?

      • Markk

        the only one showing hate in this group is you.

        • myself

          Phred is just angry that he is still ‘here” and hasn’t gotten his promised virgins yet!

          • phred

            Hey, myself,

            These foolish accusations that someone is a Muslim? Wow, that’s the same STUPID argument that if one defends homosexuals civil rights they, therefore, must be homosexual themselves. Or if one loves growing plants one must, therefore, be a vegetable!
            And, of course, beyond that, I have done NO defending of ANY religious belief, only popinted out that the same things that SOME Christians are attacking are just as prevalent, in their posts, in their OWN religious beliefs. Hate is hate. To hate someone for their religious beliefs, well, just how can it matter what direction that hate flows?
            I don’t hate Christians at all, but I do hate the fact that they are so arrogant as to assume that a nonChristian is either a Muslim, or, even worse, that they don’t believe in God!

          • vida

            Talking about those virgins. If they are perpetual virgins, doesn’t that mean there is no sex or if they are regenerating virgins, they are sucubbus who feed on men’s soul to regenerate their youthfulness & virginity. Seems to me the joke is on jihadis, especially if these ladies are the virgins: http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/surprise_virgins.htm

        • phred

          markk, with the two ks–perhaps you could get someone to help you actually put a thought down here, eh? To make a statement like this one with nothing behind it, not even an attempt at explanation, makes me wonder what it is you are reading.
          Jana accuses me of being a Muslim—then others join in that idiocy. Then Jana accuses me of not believing in God ( a typical thought of a certain brand of Christian, which is one of my complaints). So, I got angry. So I guess I gave the fools what they asked for, eh? These posts were geared deliberately to provoke anger, yet I am the “one of this group showing hate.”????
          Makes me think that if I drove past your church on a Sunday morning I’d probably be able to see “hate smoke” rising from the chimney! How impressive!

          • myself

            Non of my posts have been to try and indoctrinate ANYONE to ANY religion. Muslims are free to practice their faith in their mosques. Just like everyone else in this country. Their culture is the issue here. You have it wrong. Burqas are CULTURAL. Nothing to do with religion.

    • Sam

      Have you ever read of what Mohamed, “PBU” said? you don’y know even how to spell his name. If Jesus “PBU”, hears what you are saying about Mohamed, he would have punished you severely. Go learn man before you open your mouth about those great Man

  • eddie47d

    Not surprised, even more trash talk. Jana;So what if Arab food is on any menu. What about Mexican food or chinese food? I guess if you don’t eat mashed potatoes and beef your un-American. I did like your 9:43 am comments. J.M. in Mich. 7:02pm comments,Yes you do have terrible racist feelings and I don’t think I want you fighting for America. Your ramblings made you into a cold blooded killer. 80,000 Iraq’s have died in this present war we started. 3,000 died in 9/11 which had virtually nothing to do with Iraq. I guess you did’t get your pound of flesh while you were in Desert Storm and now you want to see millions die. (wiping out the whole region). Your worst than the terrorists.

    • Markk

      eddie boy what happened to that decent Church going Christian? Kinda sounds like Jana was right about you. You blew your cover.

      • Jana

        I received this in an email and thought this quite appropriate for some of the posts that are on here, esp. those who would like to see our country change from a Christian Country to a Muslim one.

        This sounds like “Perfect Advice”.

        Law of the Garbage Truck

        One day I hopped in a taxi and we took off for the airport.

        We were driving in the right lane when suddenly a black car jumped out of a parking space right in front of us.
        My taxi driver slammed on his brakes, skidded, and missed the other car by just inches! The driver of the other car whipped his head around and started yelling at us.
        My taxi driver just smiled and waved at the guy. And I mean, he was really friendly.

        So I asked, ‘Why did you just do that? This guy almost ruined
        your car and sent us to the hospital!’

        This is when my taxi driver taught me what I now call, ‘The Law of the Garbage Truck.’

        He explained that many people are like garbage trucks. They run around full of garbage, full of frustration, full of anger, and full of disappointment.

        As their garbage piles up, they need a place to dump it and sometimes they’ll dump it on you. Don’t take it personally.

    • Sam

      I told you she is full of hatered of anything has to do with Islam. she should learn that Islam is all over the world. If you do not want, no problem, do not take it, just leave us alone. we will always defend our religion ISLAM.

  • Claire

    Another so-called issue that is positively stupid. I sure as heck wouldn’t want to wear a snood (another name for the head covering). Let them go back to where they came from if they want to dress like mummies. What a waste of time and the taxpayers money about this trivial issue. All they are doing is promoting the Islam religion in American schools. As if we don’t have enough of this garbage in our schools now. And another item–The English language SHOULD be adopted if anyone wants to live in the U.S. This is certainly more important than wearing the head coverings.

    • cr747

      Claire,, I say if they want to come to America,,learn to speak English before they are allowed to come..If not then stay in your on country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Claire

        cr747—English language should be spoken by all people here in the United States. If they want to live here, then speak English!!

  • chuck b

    freedom of religion?

    isn’t it strange these different religions move into our country (christian) and start telling us what we have to do too appease them. i think we should evacuate the muslims from our shores, they have one thing in mind, convert this country to islam. the jews and muslims have been instrumental in removing christianity from the schools (southern poverty law center and the aclu) and the islams and the jews will never get along, if we don’t put a stop to it now our country will look like the middle east.i don’t think the founding fathers had in mind this kind of situation and those quoting jefferson and his beliefs better make a more deeper investigation in his remarks.

    • phred

      And, chucky b., you seem to have one thing in mind:
      To convert this country from one where we can all practice freedom in our spiritual pursuits to one of Christian rules! (Note your first sentence and the word in (). )

      • phred

        Oh, and believe me, chucky b., I am a student of history, and have particularly studied the founding of the United States, and the founding fathers, and their religious beliefs and their societal beliefs, etc. I know whereof I speak. wish just a few of those who believe this is a “Christian Nation” could honestly say the same thing. then maybe we’d not have these anti everybody but Christian arguments!

        • denniso

          Our country is supposed to stand for religious freedom,not religious domination by one majority religion…any kid anywhere can pray to herself at any time,or a group of kids can pray on their own. They just can’t have prayer lead by a teacher or do it during class.
          Can’t anyone pray in church or their home or anywhere else? Of course…the issue is phony because what the proponents really want is to make public schools religious…

          • Markk

            Very true and that is why we don’t want the muslims taking over and forcing us into serving there religon. We want freedom for everybody.

    • Sam

      He talks as if indeed he has bought this country from his lord!! It is my country too like it or not. You just came here few hundred years ago. You killed all the indians and took their country, so be quiet and stop being ignorant

  • eddie47d

    Muslims are no more dangerous in creating turmoil in the world than Christian nations. Christians and Muslims have both commited atrocities in the world all in the name of God. So let’s get over ourselves. No one should be slaughtered for their beliefs. That’s been done before and it hasn’t been pretty. Especially in the attempted annialation of the Jews. The Roman Empire in 79 A.D. because the Jews wouldn”t bow down to their pagan nation and milatary might.The Spanish Inquisition period. Then The Nazis blaming The Jews for all woes of the world.Now we have Americans blameing all Muslims for all the woes of the world. No one has stopped me from going into my church. We certainly don’t need any more concocted wars like Iraq to prove how Christian we are. Most Muslims came to America to get away from being persecuted and just want the basic rights we all enjoy. Terrorists are no more than thugs and should be brought to justice for their actions. Muslim Americans should be treated with the same respect accorded by the Constitution that we all expect.

    • chuck b

      eddie

      not every muslim is a terrorist, not every jew is a communist and we didn’t invade iraq to make them a christian country, however, neither islam or judaism have tolerance for the christian religion, in the muslim world or israel. the muslims have no value for life as we do, such as suicide bombings, beheading people and you want to give this mentality refuge? you want us to diminish our culture to appease them?
      just look at our school’s now with this multiculturalism is this what made this country great, i think not!!

      • myself

        Yes. Diversity and multiculturalism has been crammed down our throats. We are constantly being told how wonderful this is for us and our children. NO. There is a grade school where I live and they have flags from all over the world in their windows. I called the school department to complain…there was NO AMERICAN FLAG !!!
        What made this country great was the FACT that immigrants came here to BECOME Americans! Not to force us into their cultures, yet this is what is now happening! All the do-gooders and bleeding heart liberals are letting it happen.

      • Sam

        If Muslims did nopt have tolerance, then they would have never let the president of Lebanon to be Chritian! Do you know this fact? Eventhough, the majority of the people are Muslims. Our tolerance make us do that only

    • Claire

      eddie–In light of all that has happened, and continues to happen, a Muslim will have to prove to me that they are on the “up and up.” The manner in which the Muslim/Islam religion is taught is what bothers me. It is ingrained in them from birth. Religion like this is difficult to discard. I do not care if they have lived here for years, I am still wary of them and will continue to be wary. I can remember my Mother saying “birds of a feather flock together.” This old adage makes me wonder. I will remain cautious.

      • Claire

        Another point to ponder—prayer has been taken out of American schools, but yet we allow for “other” religions to have their beliefs. Not quite fair to me.

        • phred

          Please stop the lie that “prayer (or ‘God’, or whatever) has been taken out of American schools.” ‘T’ain’t so now, wasn’t so then, never has been! But, I remember Pat Robertson, Orel Roberts, and other televangelists pounding that into our heads until some of you believed it! Go read that ruling, see EXACTLY what it says, since most of you won’t believe me when I tell you this!
          What has been taken out of public schools is the schools or the schools officials advocating religion. that is proper for those of us who ACTUALLY believe in religious freedom!

        • jim

          Hi Claire, During finals week there is alot of prayer in school.

          • Claire

            Hi jim–so true! I can remember all that, and I know what my kids went through.

  • Mark

    I don’t recall persons of Jewish decent putting up this much of an argument in order to wear the (sorry don’t know the name of it) hat/beanie on their head. We never let that happen but now we bow to a different religion. Muslims have been in this country for a long time. Why now….what has changed? we need to stand strong on our beliefs as a country and not make changes for the newcomers. Just my opinion..

    • jim

      Hi Mark, The word you’re looking for is yarmulke.

  • Michael

    Reply to Phred…It was not the treaty of Ghent that you refer to but the Treaty of Tripoli. The words you eroneously ascribed to Jefferson were actually accredited to G. Washington which is also false. Washington was already out of office by this time. Many documents support all of the founding fathers (even B. Franklin who brought the motion to the floor of the House to ordain a morning prayer and who was NOT considered a Christian) put God first in the governing of our fledgling republic. History cannot be changed, Phred, only missaplied for evil intentions. Yes, we ARE a Christian Nation, whether or not the Muslim One wishes to admit it or not.

    • phred

      Michael, you are correct on the Treaty of Tripoli—I just been doing some work re: the Treaty of Ghent, and made one of those mental errors.
      G.Washington died in 1799, my research shows Jefferson as more likely than a dead man to have said this, but, it may have been a different one of our founders.
      Now, I am not going to get into arguments as to what the Founders believed, but, it does seems that a few were Christian, MOST ( by a good margin) were Deists (of whom Jana may well claim they don’t believe in God!) , and even the Christians didn’t want to live in a theocratic dictatorship, and that’s how they set the country up.
      The only way I see the United States as a Christian country is that some 80% of persons asked will claim to be some kind of Christian. However, that does NOT alter the fact that my religious freedoms were actually put into the Constitution itself—the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land. That is until the Christians succeed in making this a theocratic dictatorship. For then, what would distinguish the U.S. from, say Iran, which is, of course, a theocratic dictatorship?
      Be careful what you wish for, for it may come to be.

      • phred

        BTW, Michael, you make the same mistake (perhaps deliberate?) that Jana does—believing, apparently, that to mention “God”, or to invoke “God”, or to pray, etc., or to even believe in “God” is some kind of Christian exclusive. Mayhaps a bit more in depth study is called for, eh?

        • chuck b

          phred

          our god (christian) is exclusive, although, can be receptive to all who seek him. our nation was founded in the fundamentals of the puritan religion. not islam, not judaism, protestantism yes.

        • Jana

          phred, it is really odd here. We are all saying the same thing, that we don’t want one religion to take us over and usurp authority over anyone. You are the one that got all bent out of shape and threw a fit at the mere mention of the name of God.
          You have an anger management problem that is quite evident for all to see. I hope you get some help for yourself.
          I never claimed you were Islam or a Muslim, I asked you if you were. You obviously can’t read with any comprehension either.
          You are so quick to label everyone else but all you have succeeded in doing is labeling yourself.
          There isn’t anyone on here that you have disagreed with that you have not tried to insult with derogatory comments, and have been arrogant and obnoxious with. However, it is the same as you pointing your finger at someone, you have three pointing back at yourself. You have conducted yourself like an out of control child having a temper tantrum. Shame on you.

          • phred

            I find it quite impossible to discuss something with people who, at he drop of a disagreement, begin lying!
            You, Jana, began the accusatory crap, went on to an accusation of not believing in “God”. and continued from there. Because I disagree with some of your religious outbursts, you do these attacks, deliberately designed as pushing anger buttons, then try to act all upset because you see anger in my posts?
            You make more accusation about a lack of education because I tell you that “God” and Allah” are two differing languages words for the Supreme Being?
            You and your freinds here can lay claim to a “God” exclusive, as did chuck b, but that just continues the arrogance of your whole bunch—i.e., that, if one is not a Christian, one does not believe in “God”.
            In your educational endeavors, have you ever encountered the word “Deist”? Have you ever even HEARD the term “Supreme Being”?
            Yes, y’all give this Being some (to me) strange characteristics, but that doesn’t stop IT from being the SAME Being, whether you call IT “God” or “Herby”
            The really strange thing here is that I have a large number of close friends who ARE Christians ( can’t be helped, I live in the U.S. where they are so prevalent). I have freinds who are Muslim, who are Buddhists, a couple of Hindis, even a couple of Eckists, and at least one Atheist. However, none of them are ready to have the United States take away the basic religious freedoms built into the Constitution. In fact, they all accept them, and accept people having different belief systems, even to welcoming it. And I don’t believe there is a single one of my freinds who start in quoting their “holy” books or their “holy men” as soon as a discussion gets started, as if it’s “proof” of the validity of their side of an argument.
            And, to a man, woman, child, not ONE tries to claim the United States is a “Christian Nation”. Though we all have to admit that Christianity is the majority religion here, which is a TOTALLY different thing.
            Go on with the hate of all other spiritual pursuits that you have practiced for however long. the only logical outcome is that either Christianioty be eliminated as a viable practice, or, a Christian dictatorship of what was once the greatest country on earth!
            I can easily guess which of those options you, Jana, and several others here would prefer!

      • DDC

        Jana,
        I think you might as well be talking to a stone wall. this man named phred has no idea what he’s talking about.

  • Kathy

    Just what America Needs, some freaking Islamic teacher with a bomb belt under her dress to blow the school and kids up……..if this law passed, I would pull my children out of that school permanently.

    • William A Tyner (Bill)

      Let’s take a moment and remember our oath, those of us who have ever taken one to protect and preserve the Constitution, a document that belongs to all citizens.

      1st Amendment
      “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances”.

      Isn’t this crystal clear to fellow Constitutionalists?

      BTW, the original reason for the Oregon law banning religious garb? Oregon’s ban, enacted in 1923, originally was designed to keep Catholic nuns from teaching in public schools during a time of anti-Catholic bigotry.

      Bill

      • Jana

        William, I haven’t seen any Catholics try to blow anyone up, or practice religious Jihad on the rest of the world. We are living in different times.
        No one minds anyone practicing their religious beliefs, but we do mind them coming into our country and changing our laws. We do mind the fact that they will not assimilate themselves into our society. This makes you have to ask why they came here then?? Then we hear the answer from their radical Imams that tell us that they have come here to take us over.
        Yes, I take that threat very seriously.

        • Sam

          Who said they are coming in YOUR COUNTRY? They are American and are born here. They are white, black, hispanic and others. They are embrased/converted to Islam.Is there any problem in that? They all are Muslims and they want to be Muslims. STOP saying coming to our country, it is their country too born here and live here and you are not going to be able to do anything to them.

          • Jana

            Yes, many are born here, but those who are born here are not trying to change our lives and our laws. Those who have just come over here in the last 15 or so years are the ones who are trying to change our lives and our laws. You know its true that you consider us infidels if we don’t believe in your prophet Muhammad and your god Allah.

      • jim

        Hi Bill, I knew someone would be able to answer my question. Thankyou.

      • phred

        Gee (Bill) do ya think it shows a need to separate church and state?
        I know, since ypu put down the whole 1st amenment, that there are other things there too, speech, redress of grievances, etc., but, certainly it says I have the same religious freedom as Christians, Jews, Muslim, Taoists, Flat Earthers, etc.
        I.e., that AS LONG AS THE PRACTICE OF MY SPIRITUAL PURSUITS DO NOT CAUSE HARM TO OTHERS IT IS QUITE PROPER!

      • libertytrain

        Thanks for the info on that Oregon Law – though I know nothing about it, it sounds like a group of people fearful of nuns – I can’t imagine that the nuns would have chosen to teach in the public schools, however, perhaps there was a total lack of teachers available at the time and the Oregon folks were desperate – would love to know about that, it’s fascinating.

        • jim

          When I was in school those Nuns had rulers of mass destruction, they could take out my knuckles from 2 rows over and then measure how long the shot was.

    • http://personallibertydigest dan

      IT did pass today.

      • phred

        Are you saying the Oregon Legislature meets on Sundays? Oh, oh, Christian No-no!

        • chuck b

          phred

          what do you think the founding father’s meant by freedom of religion?
          did they mean it was ok to enter the schools and tell the teachers it was un-constitutional to read from the protestant bible because it might offend some muslim student or one of the jewish faith? did they ever allow any muslim, jew or catholic to run for the presidency? i wonder why? did they allow the teachers to teach from the koran? so where was all this freedom of religion from the very people who wrote the constitution? john kennedy was the first person of the catholic
          faith to run for the presidency and there was still a lot of skepticism that he might allow the pope to intefere with the politics of the country. so its hard for me to not think this has been a very christian country (protestant)and i don’t think the original signers of the constitution really meant what we think they said.

          • phred

            Huh? Let me try to understand your reasoning here, okay chucky b? Because it wasn’t until the middle of the twentieth century before ( assumedly, ’cause I don’t know if there was any candidates prior to that who may have a Roman Catholic leaning)) a Roman Catholic ran for the presidency, the founders must, therefore, have meant the new nation to be Protestant. Is that what you are saying? Sorry, but I won’t even dignify THAT reasoning with a response!
            The fact is (see post by William A Tyner (Bill) from 02/20/10 @ 7:43 PM for the 1st Amendment and its wording) placed into the Constitution are the words “…..no law respecting the establishment of a religion,….” That’s right, a “RELIGION”, not a “Denomination”. Unless you actually think that Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, et al were dolts, didn’t understand, nor freely speak and deal with the English language, thus were ignorant of the difference between the words “religion” and “denomination” of a religion, what it says, and what I believe they meant, is that, they had seen the (mainly European) governing via theocracy, and they didn’t want to see it happen here. They believed that ALL persons have the same rights to their thoughts, and their personal interpretations of the Supreme Being and how to connect and communicate with that Being—-OR—and this is a big OR—to NOT care to connect nor communicate with such a Being if one doesn’t accept a spiritualness outside of the physical planes.
            I don’t know, but with the questions and responses I’m seeing from some of y’all over the past couple of days, it seems you are really getting desparate to try to prove me wrong, and convince (I don’t know who, but to convince someone) that the United States was always supposed to have been a dictatorship of the (in your words) protestant clergy!
            ‘Course that, also, seems to stem from the idea that y’all are so superior to those of us of some other spiritual pursuits that you SHOULD dictate our spirituality for us. Now, tell me, if you can, just how that actually differs from what you say the “invading horde of Muslims” want to do?

        • jim

          Phred, That’s how it passed, the Christians weren’t there to vote against it because the were keeping the Sabath Day Holy.

  • Joe Bieliunas

    If this legislation goes through then the ban on any particular religious items on or in state-run institutions being displayed on said grounds should be lifted.

    • phred

      Yeah, Joe, let’s have a neon lighted, 70 foot high cross fly hang from the dome of the capital building. And, hey, let’s require that all State capitals fly at least a 40 foot high cross from their capital buildings. And a permanent Nativity scene ate EVERY gov’t office and building, which, of course would include schools. And, if anyone complains of this show of religion, they should be imprisoned for at least 5 years for the first offense. Secone offense would be a longer term, and, of course, any offense after the second would be a capital crime, punshible by the death penalty!
      Ahh, but wait, then the Jews may feel put upon. And the Buddhists. And the Hindi. And, especially the Atheists. gee, let’s spend a few trillion dollars fitting all of our government buildings and properties with religious artifacts of EVERY religious view, eh? Shouldn’t cost more than 60-70 trillion.
      Or, we could take all of this doo-doo OUT of government, as it was always supposed to have been, and put religions back in the home, the churches, the mosques, the synagogues, etc.
      Then, even the protestant dictators would have a place to dictate, eh?

  • phred

    Now, the really silly thing about all of this bickering is that I have agreed in several posts that the Muslims should not be wearing things that are identified with their religion as they teach our children in public schools. But, since I am just as adamant that the jews not were things like their skull caps, nor the hat of rabbinicals, etc. during the same . Nor Christians their crucifix’. Nor any OTHER religious artifacts, since it shows an advocation of that religion.
    It’s not a problem to any of y’all, now, is it, that I don’t want to see a female teacher wearing a burka while she is working with our children? But it makes a BUNCH of you almost deficate in your pants to say that a Christian teacher, by the same token, shouldn’t be teaching our children while wearing a visible depiction of his or her religion.
    Isn’t that just wonderfully open-minded, now? He asks sarcastically.

    • phred

      Anybody else notice how this post, and this idea has been unnoticed?
      Guess the theocratists don’t have an argument for this one, eh?

    • cr747

      phred,, like I said earlier in a comment.. No one will tell me I can’t wear my cross around my neck.. I will wear it any place I frequently visit.. ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Sam

        I am not Phred and i can not speak on his behalf, but i want to say that of course you have the right to wear the cross or antything you want, you are an American and i have the right to wear whatever i want, thus i will wear the HIJAB because i am an American and a Muslim too. It’s only fair!

        • DDC

          Sam, No one is telling you what you can wear or what you can not wear. The issue here is having Teachers that wear a veil over half of their face in American schools teaching all kids Americans, Muslims, Islams, etc. Americans do not believe it is right for them to wear this while teaching American children who have not grown up around this.They do not understand. Do you see what I am trying to say?

          • Sam

            DDC- I do understand. To some extend, you have a valid point, but then how about if some one wear the cross, where we american muslims do not believe in it? I do respect your freedom but how about my freedom? You might say well, i’m talking about the kids who have not seen these kind of clothes/veils or cover the face. As a muslim, i want you to know that i disagree with my fellow American muslims who cover their faces, because the people here are still not familiar with this type of Hijab.But i would like you to know that in Islam there are different type of school of thoughts, i fellow the one which says muslim women do not have to cover their faces and thus my wife does not cover her face and she’s doing just fine and the majority of our fellow non-muslim American respect her and her choice and deal with her with a good manner and i’m proud of those non-muslim Ameicans. The point that you got to understand is that: God has told the muslims women to wear Hijab for a purpose as he said in the holy Quran.The wisdom behind this Hijab is the following: God wants this society or any soceity in this manner to be empty of diseases and God knows that if any sexual relationship out the wedding lock will to create theses diseases, he said that 1500 years ago. Just now, we know that spreading these nonlegitimate sexual relationship, will cause diseases such as HIV, AIDS, Siphlis etc…. and because he loves us, he does not want us to have these diseases. So he told the muslim females to cover themselves and cover their beauties to minimize the temptation of the opposite sex, men, at the same talk, he told the muslim men to wear modest clothes and to lower their gaze because indeed Women are the MOST beautiful gifts that he ever gave to men.Now, the American muslim girl as well other muslim girl regardless of her nationality, totally believe that she needs to obey God otherwise she’ll be punished by her lord, unless she repints to him. So she believes that wearing Hijab is a duty and not a symbol . Afetr all , if she chooses not to wear it, then it is her choice and she will be questioned by her lord.Really, there are many good things that we can agree upon.
            Now when our kids get used to it, we believe that when they grow, they will have more toleration toward others and thus, leave in peace and harmony with other fellow American. Please, let’s open our hearts to each other

          • Jana

            Sam,
            Where in the Qu’ran does it say this?

  • eddie47d

    Jana, Which radical Inman is telling American Muslims to take over America.(for the historical record). In the 90′s we had the militia running around telling everyone to join them and take over the govt. Timothy Mcvee and friends pulled a big one,but most thought their acts were shameful. Just like most Muslim Americans think the attacks on 9/11 were shameful. Most militia members were just a few survivalists who found a common bond in living off the land and sharing opinions. Timothy just took it to a extreme,just like a few Muslims take it to an extreme. On the other hand look what Christian Americans did to the Indians. We either killed them or forced many into Christian schools where they were not allowed to practice their ways. We cut their hair and forced them to wear “whitemans” clothes. So we’re still telling people how to dress or they will be delt with.

  • chuck b

    phredy

    you just don’t get it, so why bother with all the conversation.

  • phred

    Because chucky b, I believe in religious freedom as well as all the other freedoms American citizens have. Because I value my religous freedom, and all the other freedoms Americans have. Because I value these things for EVERYBODY in this country, and wish it could be so for the world.
    Reread, chucky b, your own post where you tell us you think this country was founded to be a protestant dictatorship (hint; your last few lines from 02-21 @ 3:59 PM). Then think again as to who “just don’t get it”. Migod, give the others their freedom, else surely yours will be gone very soon! And whose fault will it be? Those of you who insist and insisted that THEIR religion is the only one, that THEIR “God” is the only one, and that THEIR way, belief, and culture, is the only one.
    Follow your religion, I really don’t care, but to try to make me do the same, because we live in this imagined “protestant Chrisitan” nation of yours—Bah.
    High Schools in this country are required, in every district I’ve ever heard of, to teach U. S. History AND U. S. Government. These are very basic and elementary classes, but it seems that either you missed them, or, perhaps you were asleep that year.

    • chuck b

      phred

      this is a useless conversation. some people can’t see the forest for the trees.

      you are mis-interpreting what i say. i could care less what your religion is. this country wasn’t founded by muslim’s, jews and the founding fathers were mostly protestant some agnostic. they did not want a religion such as the church of england or catholic church to dominate them anymore, thats what they were talking about when they said freedom of religion. these people mostly belonged to the puritan faith and they certainly weren’t going to be domibated by either. you better quit reading the current liberal garbage and find history books that haven’t been revised. the muslim’s had no part in the founding of our nation.

      • denniso

        The ‘founding fathers’ were the ‘elitists’ of their day…they were educated and mostly smart and would be trashed by rightwingers today if they were here. They were not all Christians,some were Deists and some were agnostic. A Deist thinks there is some kind of ‘god’ but not sure what kind and is not part of any definite religion.
        The ‘founders’ were smart enough to want to keep religion out of the gov’t,hence the establishment clause. They knew from history and direct experience that a majority religion could become dictatorial and that religious fighting could tear a country apart. Religion belongs in one’s heart or church…simple.

        • chuck b

          denniso

          as always you have everything twisted. “the founding fathers were the right wingers”
          you may want to go back and read some of the documents, other than the constitution, and see if the founders wanted god out of their govt activities, god is referenced by almost all of them and was a part of their political life and belief. even thomas jefferson who was raised in and a vestry of the anglican church who later turned agnostic at one stage of his life, referenced to god in almost all his documents before and after. you liberals better dig a little deeper in his case.this god they were referring to was the god of their faith; protestantism. agreed, they did not want any church to be dominate like the church of england or catholic.

          • denniso

            Chuck…you guys don’t get it. Mentioning God or believing in a God is not the same thing as having any religion at all,certainly not a specific one. Almost all religions have a belief in God,but believing in God does not necessitate a belief in a religion. Christians think their God is exclusive to them,Muslims and others think the same thing,yet if there’s a God,isn’t it the only one? Believe in God and your particualr religion all you want,just keep it away from any involvement w/ gov’t. What’s so difficult about that???

          • DDC

            chuck b
            sounds to me like a couple of kooks you got here talking about a true and loving God. They both have shown nothing but hatred towards any one trying to reason with them. Our founding fathers had nothing to do with being affiliated with what denomination they are expressing on their comments. The founding fathers did believe in God, and they worshiped Him however they wanted to, just like we do today through different denominations.
            That one guy says he has 40 years experience in history. Something went bad evidently he slept 40 years and dreamed it all up. God Bless.

      • phred

        As i said before, chucky b, I am a student of history, Have been for more than 40 years. And especially of the period 200 years either side of the Revolutionary War and the founding of the United States.
        And I gotta tell you I’m a bit sick of you calling the founding fathers stupid and ignorant.
        I have also NOT misinterpreted what you have said—your claim is right here for all to see—that the United States was founded to be a protestant dictatorship—I see no way to interpret your words otherwise.
        You are doing nothing more than defending the prejudice you hold for your religion. But in doing so you don’t seem to realize what you do for the religious beliefs and practices of nonChristians. You say this discussion is useless? You are (FINALLY) correct—you are SO taken with that prejudice that you can’t see the truth. “RELIGION” is the word in the Constitution—-even YOU can’t be blind enough not to see that. If the founders had meant “denomination” I’d think that would have been the word they would have chosen.
        The entire foundation for the entire United States is based on personal liberties, freedoms (yes, those are two distinct things) and responsibilities. Freedom of speech, the fact that the people in this country hold the power, not the government, the idea of keeping government small so the people are not oppressed by gov’t. Those liberties and freedoms MUST filter all the way to our thoughts and beliefs, else they would be nonexistant. And what is a religious belief but thoughts and beliefs? Yet, still your bias insists that we are a “protestant country”? To someone who doesn’t possess your prejudice, it seems obvious that the founders wanted us to be safe, secure, in our homes, in our personal lives and in our thoughts, from government interference.
        MY history books have NOT been revised—-yours have, because of your prejudice, you believe the revisions. I would actually dare you to try to impose your religious beliefs on me as you seem wont to do. Or on others who actually believe in the freedomd and liberties this nation affords us. Your belief in a protestant dictatorship is so far out of line to what the United States is supposed to be, though, that I fear for the country because of people like you. Let’s hope you are a TINY percentage of the populace, but, reading here, that seems a shaky hope.

        • zack

          phred sounds to me like you wasted 40 years on history

          • phred

            If you think you have better info, or have done better researcg, lay it on me. Otherwise a comment of this type with no backing is just typical of what I see from people with serious prejudii, and a particular axe to grind.

          • zack

            (Comment removed for offensive content toward another poster)

  • phred

    Hey, maybe this would solve the energy crisis. We’ll send these comments from the “protestant dictatorship” folks to the Astral Plane, directly to Thomas Jefferson, George washington, and the rest. You know, the guys who did their best to set up the freest nation on the planet, and to eliminate prejudicial religious interference by gov’t. When they read this tripe, and start spinning in their graves, we attach generators to those graves, and the energy crisis is solved!
    Ahhh, but, then we’d still have the lack of religious freedom crisis to solve, wouldn’t we?

  • chuck b

    phred says

    i did not say the founding fathers were stupid or ignorant. apparently we have a problem understanding each other. the founding fathers were all protestants with the exception of some agnostics. if you are a student of history then you must understand by reading the documents and letters these people wrote made reference to the almighty god and when i mention god there god was jesus christ who they believe is god incarnate. now if you are a muslim do you believe jesus christ is god, no you don’t, they did, so when i say protestant god that is who i am referring to. so now wouldn’t you say their god is a christian god???

    • zack

      chuckb don’t think he knows much about history like he would like to make everyone think. sick

      • phred

        BTW, I had opted out of this discussion because it had devolved into such ridiculousnesses. I should have known when you used the JFK example as to why the U.S, was a protestant nation. But I have tried to give you some education as to why I want and love my relgious freedom AS PLACED INTO THE CONSTITUTION. Obviously you don’t want me, or anyone else, outside of the protestant dictatorship, to have such freedoms. Is it okay with you for me to keep and bear arms? Is it okay with you if I have free speech? How about if I were to invoke my right not to incriminate myself?
        With your attitude I am really surprised that you wish to be on a Libertarian type blog!

        • Jana

          The one that devolved this conversation was Phred. You are the one who had to get vulgar and use name calling, which we all know is a tactic that bullies use.

    • phred

      Sorry chucky boy, but your prejudice is truly beyond belief! The fouinders put the word “religion” in the Constitution. The spoke of “God”. “God” is a reference to the Supreme Being. If they had meant to say “Jesus”, seems they were intelligent enough to have said that.
      As for zacks BS comment, perhaps you’d like to get into a historical debate? I would welcome it, since you seem to speak more in attempted sound bites and insults, rather than logic and reasonably thought out and presented discourse. If this insulting crap is the best you can do, maybe RomperRoom.com would be a better fit for you, eh?
      Oh, and yes, chucky boy, you DO try to make the founders seem as if they had no education,. no intelligence, and founding the greatest country in the planets history via some “by-guess-and-by-gosh” method, rather than to have figured out what they want and how to go about making that happen. If, for example, I want to indicate that the green car is parked on the west side of the road, I would say something like the “green car is parked on the west side of the road”, I wouldn’t say there’s Ford over there on the left. If I wish to indicate a religion, I would say a religion. If I wish to indicate a denomination, that’s the word I would use. Seems intelligent, educated person anywhere and anytime would do the same.
      As for you assertion that “the founding fathers were all protestants with the exception of some agnostics.” Wrong once again. I HAVE read Bob Livingstons lie on this one, too. Even he makes claim that (I think his number is) 54% were Christians, and then he breaks it down more. But, I’m assuming you have read this same Livingston lie, and are trying to make it true.
      The fact is, only about 8 of those that I would call “founders” were truly some form of Chrisitan. Most of them were Deists. Now, don’t go to Livingston, again, for the definition of Deist or Deism. The term means exactly what it says, one who believes in God—i.e., not your bastardization of the term “God” to mean Jesus (BTW, “Christ” was not Jesus last name, so using the name (as you do) Jesus Christ seems, also, raher silly.
      Now as to the idea of Deism—these fellas believed in God—the Supreme Being, so it stands to reason they speak of God, doesn

      • zack

        — EH ol chap talking about BS thats all i have seen from you from the beginning, for sure you dont know anything about HISTORY, and for sure you cannot spell, and for sure you do not know anything about the Constitution, and you are so ignorant about the word of God. So my time is more important than to debate a loser like you EH

        • phred

          Hey, where do you live tough guy? If you were within sight of me, you’d probably be having some physical problems and hurts about now. But, hey, anybody can be tough as they hide in the anonymity of the internet, eh?
          You think the fact that I make typos means I can’t spell, and, therefore, I can’t be educated/ Let’s take a look at something, okay?
          02-23 @ 10:34 zack says, “phred souinds to me like you wasted 40 years on history” Note not a shred of puntuation.
          02-24 @ 2:50PM (comment removed for offensice content toward another poster)
          Then you try to make my typos and, frankly, sometiomes my computer loses a page, etc. as some kind of proof that I’ve no education, and know naught about the Constitution, etc. ?
          One proof I see is that, when I asked you, due to your idiotic accusation, if you have better research or better info than me, to tell us about it, the best you could do was to post some of your normal insults, except this time it was so offensive that it was removed for ofeensive content.
          Much as you’ve tried, I have not been pushed to being that offensive!
          Because you disagree with me on things like the civil rights of ALL Americans, and the rights to ALL Americans to religious freedom, the best you seem able to do is throw out one or two line insults with no content. And when challenged to do otherwise, you stoop to offensiveness. If you can’t do better than that, perhaps you need to go to some othe forum where they speak in monosyllables, and v*e*r*y b*a*s*i*c thoughts, some that you can actually wrap your mind around, rather than some which require juat a touch of understanding of the language of the country, and perhaps a bit of opening the mind from the locked position, EEEEHHHH?

          • zack

            phred, dang you misspelled sounds, offensive, punctuation, sometimes, offensive. Dang, guess I’ll have to give you a F on spelling, and the history teacher said to give you a F- for history. EH

        • phred

          Slipped in above the post below:
          “Your time is more important than to debate a loser like you.”??? Would you, please, show me ANY place on this whole thread where you have “debated” ?? So far all you’ve done is to throw out your little insults. Debating seems to me to be some form of attempting to use knowledge, logic, quotes, that sort of thing, that point toward some validity of your side of a disagreement. When and where have you done that, zack?? Nowhere that I can find, but if you can show me I’ll be happy to deal with that.

          • DDC

            Physical problems, and hurt EH. If you do not know anything about the constitution, or this country, Then take your toys and run back home to mommy. I like this EH part EH.

        • Jana

          Good for you Zack

  • phred

    Yeah, that’s right, I deliberately used a screamout of the term you seem to find offensive—EH! How childish can you be? Might I inquire as to just how old you are? You come across as about 8-9 years old. Maybe you are, and maybe that’s why you have so much trouble with history and the Constitution, and things of that nature, eh?

    • zack

      phred, what the heck is a screamout? eh

  • zack

    EEHH, ol chap I live in El Passo, Texas, as if that makes any difference.. You would be to BIG of a LOSER to try to locate me. Tell me where you want to meet, time, and date, and I would be more than happy to oblige you. I am in Afghanistan right now with the rest of my Navy Seal Squadron, but am due to depart here, and back to Texas somewhere around the first day of March. I can tell you real quick there won’t be any physical problems or hurts for me, now what you might look like would be different story.
    Yea, I have a lot of history about the constitution that you seem to know anything about. As for as education you blast out like you are the only one on these blogs that know anything. Evidently your and my age of 8 or 9, looks as though we are the same age.
    I had that figured out on about the 2nd comment that you where about 9 years of age according to your ignorant writings.
    The founding Fathers new what they where writing when they wrote the constitution, something you seemed to know anything about. I’m sure Washington and Jefferson, LOL “spin in their grave”,sounds like something a 1st grader would dream up.
    Date, time, and place there mate. EH LOL?

    • Jana

      Phoor phathetic phred,

      It’s everybody elses phault that he loses his temper. It’s all our phault that he has to talk using vulgarity.
      He accuses others of lying. Watch out because the one that accuses others of lying as you have done a couple of times already, is generally the one that lies. People that don’t deal in lying don’t think of it or even use the word in their vocabulary.
      You also try to use bully tactics, but that hasn’t worked for you so you whine like girl. It may work on your family but not with the ADULTS, in this group.

  • phred

    Gee, DDC, you do the same thing zack has done, i.e., spout off with no content. I have easily demonstrated what I know about the constitution and this country, you(?) on the other hand? A line or two that makes not the least bit of sense—a lot of that going around here, eh?
    As for you. zack, I’m a bit busy right now, had a longish post for you, but my computer fuzzed off, and I don’t have time to repeat it. Possibly tomorrow—-You “Mr. tough guy Navy Seal”, you ooooo how $**$%$* sacrey!!! NOT!

    • phred

      Okay, this WILL be my last post on this blog. I am sick of trying to speak to people who either can’t understand the written English language (such as one who, when I told a poster to find out what she’s talking about before she opens her pie-hole, and this idiot tries to say I called someone a piehole), or, and this seems a whole lot more likely, those who REFUSE to understand what’s being said if it doesn’t agree with their own prejudice.
      As for you, zack, I quoted you, at one point, and will now do the same thing, since you haven’t answered. I won’t be sticking around for your answer, but will continue tp monitor this “Liberty Digest” for anti religious freedom crap like this one. Here’s the quote, again:
      “So my time is more important than to debate a loser like you.”
      I asked then, and I ask again—just WHEN did you even attempt to do ANY debating? You have yet to put down any of your thoughts, any of your arguments, nothing! To simply say things like “you’re wrong, you’re wrong, you’re wrong” is the attempted arguments of an 8 or 9 year old, not a grown up. You make claims that you have “more history than” phred, etc., and more knowledge of the Constitution, etc. yet, having been given chances to put them on here, all I’ve seen is something that was removed for offensive content! In fact, zack, I just went back through the posts here. Since you are one trying to tell me that I am “the only one showing hatred here”, might I point out that no one, including me, has had a post removed for offensive content except for yourself! And you’ve had THREE such!
      BTW, should I ever decide to drop down to El Paso, I’ll be SURE to look you up! You see, when I went through the Seal Training, it was a requirement that one have some intelligence, some ability to express themselves in some way to get a point across, to act like an adult, and to not get so angry about something that they can’t think.
      IF you are, indeed, a member of the Navy Seals, it causes me to wonder, after reading your posts here, just exactly what is it you may be fighting for? You obviously do NOT believe that ALL men are created equal. I know that is not in the Constitution, but in the Declaration of Independence, but it is one thing that led directly to the Constitution, and the establishment of the United States. So, since you believe that I don’t have the same religious freedom as yourself and your Christian contingent, just what is it that you are fighting for? I have three nephews, and a son in the U.S. military. My son is about to deploy for the third time to Iraq. He was in the first group to go in there, and was a part of the squad who took the Bagdhad airport. I have a grandson that is within months of becoming military as well. And I praise them for their devotion to the United States—because THEY all know what the United States is all about. Still, I wonder why someone who has the ideas that you do would fight? For the president? For the land mass? Why waste your time? If you were fighting for our freedoms, and you knew what that entailed, I’d have praise and respect for you—unfortunately, you don’t.
      Goodbye.

  • John

    Christianity is the strangest religion ever set up, for it committed a murder upon Jesus in order to redeem mankind from the sin of eating an apple.

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