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On, Wisconsin!

March 4, 2011 by  

On, Wisconsin!

You can run but you can’t hide. Wait, correct that. Turns out that if you’re a State senator in Wisconsin, you can do both.

In case you’ve missed the news, 14 liberal Democratic members of the Wisconsin State senate fled the State so there wouldn’t be enough members present to allow a vote to be taken. They’ve been hiding out in Illinois for more than two weeks now.

While the Democrats don’t have the votes to defeat Governor Scott Walker’s efforts to reform the bankrupt State government, by fleeing to Illinois they can prevent the senate from having a quorum. No quorum, no votes. It may be one of the most undemocratic things I’ve seen in years, but it’s perfectly legal. Despicable, maybe, but legal.

Oh, and speaking of despicable, how about the violent and obscene demonstrations against Walker and his conservative supporters by members of the teachers union and other public employees? These folks have been feeding very well at the government trough for decades. Now they are going absolutely ballistic at the thought of their plum benefits being trimmed by even a nickel.

Here’s the problem in a nutshell: The State government in Wisconsin, like that of almost every other State, has been playing a game of financial kick-the-can for decades. Ever since President Lyndon Johnson’s “Great Society,” politicians have been voting for generous pay and retirement packages for all sorts of government workers — teachers, policemen, firemen, bureaucrats.

The problem is, while they approved the spending, they never planned on where the money would come from to pay for all of their generosity. Just like our President today, whose spending spree over the past three years makes a drunken sailor look frugal, they decided to placate their constituents now and let someone else face the consequences tomorrow.

Now tomorrow has arrived… and there isn’t enough money in the till to pay for it. Of the 222 pension plans operated by various State governments on behalf of their employees, 116 are currently underfunded. There are some bad times ahead, my friends.

Making the problem even worse is that so many people have figured out how to game the system. For example, many municipalities decided that the pensions for retiring policemen, or firemen or their own paper-pushers, would be based on a percentage of their income for the last two or three years they worked.

Not being stupid, guess what many of these employees did? They started putting in 20 to 40 hours of overtime every week. They managed to inflate their pay so much that some of them are now getting more than $150,000 a year in retirement benefits — even though their salaries never reached half that amount. Is this a wonderful country or what?

As you know from the nightly news, union leaders are so furious with Walker and his allies — and so worried that other States and municipalities might also try to restore some sanity to the budget process — they’ve declared all-out war in Madison. Angry parasites… oops, I mean public employees… are being bused in from all over the State, handed signs and megaphones and told to scream their heads off. Thousands are gladly complying.

But what is it that the governor of Wisconsin wants to do? The protestors make it sound as though he’s going to force their offspring into sweatshops and make them live on cat food. But what exactly is it that this heartless, mean-spirited, cheapskate SOB is proposing? Ready?

One, that government workers contribute half of the cost of their pensions. Ask anyone you know who works for private enterprise how much their company contributes to their retirement, would you? The highest I’ve heard is a matching contribution of 25 percent to a 401(k). The more common response was a laugh.

Two, that government workers pay for 12 percent of their health-insurance premiums. Or to put it another way, that the State can go from paying 100 percent to just 88 percent. Does anyone out there who is not sucking at the government teat have a deal this sweet?

Three, that government unions no longer be allowed to use collective bargaining to argue for pensions and other benefits. In this context, “collective bargaining” means “I ain’t gonna do what you want. And I’ll bust the skull of anyone else you hire to do it.”

Four, that the State will stop forcibly collecting union dues from its employees and turning the money over to union bosses. Union dues would become — gasp! — voluntary. No wonder the union leaders are quaking in their boots.

Five, the unions would be forced to let their members vote every year on whether they wanted to continue to be represented by the union. Can you imagine bringing democracy to rank-and-file union members? What an un-American idea! (Oh, wait, I think I got that wrong.)

I don’t want to sound like a cranky old grandfather (although my children will assure you, that’s exactly what I am), but in six decades of working for others and myself, I never had a deal as lucrative as government employees enjoy today.

And what sort of gratitude do we get? In New York City they refuse to plow the streets. In Pennsylvania they allow goons and thugs to intimidate voters — and the Justice Department looks the other way. In Texas, Illinois, Nevada, and probably dozens of other places, they steal elections.

And what does the President of the United States have to say about it? He attacks the governor of the sovereign State of Wisconsin for trying to bring some fiscal sanity to his State. Looking at the positive side here, at least it kept President Barack Obama from battling Arizona again for trying to stem the invasion of illegal aliens, or Honduras for daring to kick out a Marxist dictator-in-the-making.

As I write this, the Wisconsin State assembly has voted 51 to 17 to support Walker’s reforms. The State senate can’t take a vote, of course, because 14 liberal legislators remain in hiding South of the border.

How will all of this be resolved? Calmly and sensibly, I hope. Violently and acrimoniously, I fear.

If you live in Wisconsin, or know anyone who does, ask them to please give democracy a chance. Tell the 14 senators to go to work. They just may find out that solvency works… and feels good, too.

Now please excuse me. I’m going to put John Phillips Sousa’s “finest of college marching songs” in my CD player and turn up the volume. “On, Wisconsin!” indeed.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • The Insurgent

    Talking about “American” maffia, here’s a great article with an even greater video to show who are the real maffiosos… Don’t worry, NOT the Italians!

    http://www.davidduke.com/general/new-video-israel-the-promised-land-of-organized-crime_23188.html

    • Kinetic1

      Insurgent,
      We’re talking about Wisconsin and the public workers (who, by the way are willing to accept the pay cuts, retirement sharing, etc. but want to keep the right to bargain. Why didn’t you mention that, Chip?) and you want to take us off on some anti Semitic rant with former KKK grand dragon David Duke?! Yes, that’s it! This whole protest is about the Jews taking control of Wisconsin! How could I have missed it? {~:

      • DaveH

        Why don’t you publish some references to support your claims of compliant Unionists?
        While you’re at it, please explain why members of a Union shouldn’t be allowed to vote in secret ballots about whether or not they want to be members of that Union.
        And please explain the morality of anybody demanding the money of anybody else (in this case the taxpayers)?

        • spitfire

          Yes, I would surely like to hear an answer to the last sentence.

          • Jovianus

            Sure thing Spitfire. Here’s your answer. Everone working for the state should work for free and receive any compensation by way of donations from those they serve. The more money donated, the more breaks one should receive. Bribery should be the norm…just like any other third world country.

            Your application should be in the mail today right? I mean..you’ll be the first to work as underpaid for your skills …right?

          • chow

            Jovianus says:

            “Everone working for the state should work for free and receive any compensation by way of donations from those they serve”.

            Since you put it this way the answer is yes. It’s actually be better if the states just outsource all departments to private companies (e.g. grades K-12 in private or parochial schools, fire department could be hired by each community, cops we can do rent a cop, etc.).

          • Jovianus

            Chow…ever belong to a Housing Association or a Condo Association? They work real well don’t they?

            Jeesh….

          • bob wire

            ““Everyone working for the state should work for free and receive any compensation by way of donations from those they serve”.
            first response ;
            “Since you put it this way the answer is yes. It’s actually be better if the states just outsource all departments to private companies”

            My response; sure ! just like The Republic of Mexico! This makes everyone a “free agent” an a “Opportunist Capitalist”. What better way to share wealth? ~ OH! you want other shoe shined? okay~ that’s two dollars!

            If that’s the way you want things to be, I haven’t a problem with it as long as the policemen are willing to accept smaller bribes then Judges.

            Justice needs to be “affordable”

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Govenor Walker is not asking, mor suggesting, that his stae’s employees work for nothing. That, Jovi, is a spoiled brat union rant.

            The state of Wisconsin has a VERY serious money problem. Govenor Walker was elected along with the Republican majority in the legislature, to fix it.

            It is a fact that the public unions have unrealistic salaries and benefits. They are unsustainable.

            The public union employees will still (unfortunately) be able to bargain their wages.

            Read Chip’s article closely when he discusses benefits.

            You have people in the private sector making 30K to 50 / 55K before confiscatory taxes paying into their own pensions and paying large amounts toward their own medical insurance, usually with high deductibles, paying the salaries and benefits for these SEIU union workers.

            The people have wised up to the scam known as SEIU and the people are fed up.

          • DaveH

            Interesting that you bring up Mexico as an example, Bob Wire, since Mexico is a heavily regulated country (as you want the US to be):
            http://heritage.org/index/Country/Mexico

          • eddie47d

            OLD HENRY; Corporate CEOs have “unrealistic salaries and benefits”,”they are unsustainable”. The people have wised up about corporate greed;or have they? Corporates aren’t the producers of years past and only the takers. The dangers are all around us but you obviously left out that part.

          • Bruce D.

            You only have corporate greed if people are incompetent and and take more than what they earn to destroy the viability of their business. In this case it is a certain percentage of teachers who are incompetent, take more than what they earn, and are destroying the viability of education. If you do not like one you should not support the other.

          • Bruce D.

            Bob Wire says: “If that’s the way you want things to be, I haven’t a problem with it as long as the policemen are willing to accept smaller bribes then Judges.” If you have voluntary union dues politicians will have to accept smaller bribes. Don’t you think that is why 14 democrats left the state of Wisconsin in defiance of taxpayers.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            eddie:

            Corporate people do not work for the taxpayers. They work, in large part, for public companies that are owned by stockholders. These stockholders can demand the replacement, or reducing of benefits for the “corporates” as they see fit thru the board of directors. The stockholders can also vote in different board members if they feel the board is not doing a proper job.

            Public sector unions are not producers, only consumers of public property aka money.

            I grew up in a town that was largely private sector union and I had to listen to them continually complain about “the corporates” and their unfairness. How “they” made “too much” money. I would simply tell them to quit and go start their own business and compete against their evil bosses. None did.

            You SEIU folks better come to the realization that THERE IS NO MONEY. THE POT HAS RUN DRY. You had better stop biting the hand that feeds you.

          • eddie47d

            Lousy corporates seldom get demoted or even fired. Shareholders aren’t always the brightest and never realize what these CEOs are up to until it’s too late.(Those prospectuses are full of glowing reports) Then these corporates take retirement and receive golden parachutes for incompetence. That is why I say they didn’t earn their salaries or pensions when I have commented in the past.

          • Bruce D.

            Why don’t you name those corporations Eddie so we all know who you are talking about. You always come off as some leftwing socialist promoting class warfare who never seems to be concerned about corrupt corporations like ACORN who donate to the democratic party or for that matter a corrupt teachers union that uses taxpayers money to bribe democrat politicians.

          • eddie47d

            Acorn got a licking and was closed down and lost it’s funding. Why wasn’t Unitedhealthcare shut down for exploitation of the American public.Instead the CEO 2 years ago got a golden parachute of 1 billion 400 million in compensation. When corporate America gouges America burns. The Bruce D.’s want to shut down any benefits or even a voice for the working folks but allow wealthy capitalist to screw the hell out of us.I’d say your priorities are a little skewed.

          • Bruce D.

            The Bruce D.s want a fair and equitable system. The EddieD.s want socialistic theft based on tenure rather than on excellence and merit. Okay you named one corporation. I will take your word for it that it is corrupt and say lets get rid of that corruption. Will you support getting rid of Union corruption that funnels taxpayer dollars into the democratic party in return for political favors that diminishes the power of the taxpayer along with diminishing the educational system? I remember you to be a staunch supporter of ACORN despite its voter fraud and condoning and aiding in child prostitution. I do not see the integrity there on your part.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            eddie:

            Pay closer attention to BruceD’s post.

            These shareholders that do not “pay attention” would also be voters who have not paid attention.

            Shareholders can sell uut at any time. Taxpayers cannot.

            The taxpaerys (shareholders) have wised up in regards to the SEIU, its members and their gold plated salaries and benefits aks parchutes. and they are doing something about it.

          • eddie47d

            Bruce D.; I have nothing to do with Acorn or our welfare system. I do believe that the Acorn organization got the shaft. They were in all 50 states helping others and because of misdeeds of a few the whole outfits was dissolved.That is guilt by association. They could have punished the ones abusing their positions and left the others alone. Now the Chamber of Commerce is in all 50 states yet they are involved in controversy with the money they take in. Yet they have a gaggle of lawyers keeping them from being punished. So we live in a 2 tiered America where the higher ups do as they please while the working folks and poor get shafted. Public unions can’t hide their assets (wages)so they make easy targets. The wealthy hide their money so well it’s hard to track their assets. That is one reason when a CEO raids the company till they get away with it. Prosecutors have a difficult time digging through the mounds of paper work and the cost to taxpayers is in the millions. So prosecutors end up dropping these cases because the money is not there to go after them. The corporates know this so they keep fudging their reports until the next crises. Whether they win or loose is irrelevant since they still have millions hidden away. Back to the union issue ,if union pensions are bankrupting a state then they should be re-negotiated. This will require alot of give and take and hopefully it will be for the good of everyone involved.Oh yes, teachers don’t use taxpayer money to fund political candidates from their union dues. That is a separate fund and as far as I know in America even teachers can give to the candidates of their choice. That is really nobodies business as long as they follow the donation guidelines.

          • Bruce D.

            The voter fraud for ACORN was wide spread and they were a corporation where the CEO made millions. You have nothing to stand on there. As far as the teachers money coming from a separate fund apart from their union dues I would have to question the validity of that because you are the first one I have ever heard say that. If corporate theft is so secret and their money is so well hidden how is it that you know all about it?

          • Bruce D.

            Come on Eddie keep it real. Union dues do not fund democrat candidates?????? I gave you the benefit of the doubt and look it up on the internet. I can’t find any voluntary fund there. Stop doing that Eddie. If your ideology does not support the truth you should think about changing your ideology for your own sake if nothing else.

          • vicki

            eddie47d says:
            “Corporate CEOs have “unrealistic salaries and benefits”,”they are unsustainable”.”

            Another (demonstrably false) Eddie47d fast factoid. Unsustainable businesses go bankrupt. Unless some democrats bail them out. Remember TARP was created by a DEMOCRAT Congress.

            eddie47d says: “The people have wised up about corporate greed;or have they? Corporates aren’t the producers of years past and only the takers.”

            Interesting. That is an EXACT description of unions.

          • vicki

            eddie47d says:
            “Lousy corporates seldom get demoted or even fired. Shareholders aren’t always the brightest and never realize what these CEOs are up to until it’s too late.(Those prospectuses are full of glowing reports) Then these corporates take retirement and receive golden parachutes for incompetence. That is why I say they didn’t earn their salaries or pensions when I have commented in the past.”

            Eddie47D the corporate salary Czar. How nice. Oh and of course the unsupportable eddie47d fast factoid (“Shareholders aren’t always the brightest and never realize….”)

            Not your problem. Stay out of it. And keep your government agents out too.

            How about you run your own corporation and get back to us on how you are doing.

          • vicki

            Eddie47d writes:
            “When corporate America gouges America burns. The Bruce D.’s want to shut down any benefits or even a voice for the working folks but allow wealthy capitalist to screw the hell out of us.”

            I think this statement by Eddie47D shows us the error in his thinking. Corporations can not gouge anyone. They can not force you to buy their product. BUT if you add government force (Crony Capitalism) you do get corporations able to gouge Americans using the force of government. Usually in the form of regulations that “corporate america” can adjust to but competitors can’t.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSg0xjzIec

            So rather than forcing MORE Government on us how about LESS government.

          • DeJay

            Where in hell can anyone leave a job for weeks holding up the working of an enterprise namely government and expect not to get fired. Politicians have set themselves up to be treated like royalty when in actuality they are our servants. The love of money is the root of all evil. We have to figure out how to take the love of money out of the equation. Set a wage for everyone including CEO’s and all levels of governemnt like $100 per week. The average worker would pay 1/4 for his mortgage, 1/4 for utilities, 30% for food and 20% for micellaanous.
            Rich cats would have to sell their paintings and antuques to live high off the hog, but who could afford to buy them. Just lookibng that them won’t fill ones belly. Prices for all things would have to be stabilized downward. A frugal, person could over the years become rich but it would take a helluva lot longer and we’d have more stability. Control over us is placed in the wrong scectors. The economy should be to controlling factor. OK, now I’ll get a lot of flak.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            No Jovianus, your dead wrong. Anyone working for the State should make less than they do in the private sector, not double. They should pay for their insurance premiums, as I and millions of others that work have to, and they should be granted the freedom on whether or not they want to be forced into a union or now. Union strong arming has gone on too long, and now they want to force themselves down the throat of everyone, and have power over even taking peoples voting rights from them to vote the way they want. Its wrong, and its anti-American. All workers, of all states, of all race, color and creed, should be allowed the freedom, for themselves, to decide whether they want to be in the union or not, and if they want to have their union, fund democrats to the tune of millions of dollars. It sure seems odd to me, that while crying poverty, these unions can muster up millions of dollars and just give it away to crooked lawyer politicians, who in turn, crookedly give them exemptions, the old “Ill scratch your back” mentality, and they are allowed to get away with it. And guess who gets left holding paying for it? Thats right, us, the taxpayer. You may be blind and stupid and like doing this, but I dont, nor do millions of us nationwide. No one should be forced into a union. That is the very definition of slave labor.

        • Kinetic1

          Ok DaveH, here’s one from CBS News, 2/11/2011

          Wisconsin Gov. Walker: I won’t accept compromise

          “Under one deal, the unions said they would accept paying more for benefits as Walker wants but still retain their collective bargaining rights. Another compromise offered by Republican Sen. Dale Schultz would remove collective bargaining rights just for two years.

          Walker has repeatedly rejected both offers”

          • Janet

            Keep up the good work…telling the truth instead of the Nazi form of lies…if you say it often enough they will believe. Kinetic…we all support you and the truth.

          • chow

            They shouldn’t have unions at all they’re suppose to be government workers and paid by the taxpaying public. The word public I used doesn’t mean government workers either, I mean taxpaying self employed people and people who works for private companies or corporations, because they’re the one’s paying taxes to pay these parasite government workers.

          • DaveH

            Yep, Janet, you being a Liberal would know the techniques of propaganda well.
            Here’s some undeniable truth:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJE5MqesHlw

          • karolyn

            Chow – They pay taxes too!

          • JC

            Checked out the link DaveH. What a bunch of disgusting animals these Union Thugs really are.

          • eddie47d

            Yes JC especially those who who deliberately confronted the protesters and egged on a confrontation.Nice tactic;”infiltrate”the crowd,get the cameras rolling,create a disturbance,and Viola! Post it on U-Tube and make it anything the instigator wants it to be. Your side has learned well. The next Revolution will be televised live and if all the players perform their rolls correctly we will all be home for dinner.

          • JC

            eddie, I don’t have a “side”. I’m an American and a Libertarian.
            In other words a Constitutionalist. No where in the Constitution does it say you have any more rights than to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. You want controlling collectivist (communist) bargaining? I’m against that as I believe in the sovereignty of the individual. I’m also against Corporations being in bed with the Government and the Judiciary. Two wrongs still don’t make a right and between the communists and the fascist aspects of this country, America is lost. So I don’t care which one of those things you are…you’re the enemy.

          • smilee

            Vigilant says:
            March 4, 2011 at 8:47 pm

            Your entire post is totally all lies, you do not correctly tell how it is now or how it would be if this law was past all you are doing is repeating the corporate propaganda which totally distorts the reality. I have been through three elections in my life time and non was as you described them. Almost 40 years in a union and I have as yet not seen anyone in the union pressuring anyone to join but I have lived through the corporate arm twisting and it is not pretty.

          • Dan az

            Kinetic
            this is whats going to happen every where not just Wisconsin.Read it and weep!
            http://www.projo.com/news/content/PROVIDENCE_SCHOOL_MEETINGS_02-25-11_MCMMBSG_v26.1bd455c.html

          • Vigilant

            Smilee, you’re repeating yourself. Lies don’t improve with age, unless you live in the Third Reich.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Collective bargaining rights. That means they want the right to hold their employer over a barrel. And we the taxpayers get left paying the bill. Collective bargaining has ruined professional sports, as the people coming to games is left paying more and more, to where corporations are getting to be the only ones that can afford tickets, then they write them off, and the rest of us pay higher taxes because of this stuff. It is catching up with the NBA and NHL, and baseball and the NFL are not far behind. Collective bargaining is a joke, and a sure fire way of destroying the company forced to deal with it. And now it has bankrupted our counties and city governments, now state governments are going that way also. And the thing is, no one is irreplaceable. There are a million people standing in line wanting these jobs, and if these guys dont want them, put them in the unemployment line and give them to those who want to work. Collective bargaining as I said, is a joke, and a detriment to all, even to those who support it. You see, since they insist on it, a whole lot of them are about to get laid off and lose their jobs. And when they never come back to these jobs, ask them just how wonderful that collective bargaining was, because if they didnt have it, they would take the concessions and still be working. Its plain greed, thats all.

        • Kinetic1

          DaveH,
          Question 2) “…why members of a Union shouldn’t be allowed to vote in secret ballots about whether or not they want to be members of that Union.”

          The point of the employee free choice act is to eliminate the period between the announcement that over 50% of the employees have voiced their desire to unionize (by signing cards) and the vote to do so. During this waiting period, employers are known to have pressured and threatened employees to vote no. The idea is simple enough: Once a majority has said yes, why does there need to be another vote?

          • http://www.earthlink.net DON CROSBY

            DO YOU NOT BELIVE THE UNION IS TAKING THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME AND TRY TO CONVINCE THE OTHER 50 PERCENT TO VOTE FOR THE UNION? I CAN SAY THAT MOST BUSINESS OWENERS WILL NOT RESORT TO PRESSURING THE EMPLOYEES.

          • independant thinker

            “The point of the employee free choice act is to eliminate the period between the announcement that over 50% of the employees have voiced their desire to unionize (by signing cards) and the vote to do so.”

            And you honestly believe the union agitators will not pressure some (or most) of that 50% to sign the cards for a union? The whole point of the secret ballot is to let the workers vote their true feelings without fear of recrimination for their individual vote.

          • DaveH

            No, the Employee Free Choice Act (as usual, euphemistically titled), commonly called “card-check”, is really an employee no-choice act designed to further erode employee choices:
            http://mises.org/daily/3370

            Kinetic is trying to slip a fast one past us. Surprise, surprise.

          • Jovianus

            “I CAN SAY THAT MOST BUSINESS OWENERS WILL NOT RESORT TO PRESSURING THE EMPLOYEES.” <— Don Crosby

            Errrr..Don, ever talk to a coal miner, steel worker, logger? Ever read up on Wal Mart? Jeesh….be informed will ya ?

          • Vigilant

            Jovi Anus and Kinetic,

            Those are the most logic-challenged arguments I’ve ever seen on this site.

            If we are to believe your nonsense, management wants the card check in order to coerce employess to vote against the unionization?

            What world do you guys live in? It’s the Dems, the union leaders and the left who are pushing for card check! Your Orwellian doublethink is nothing more than propagandist palaver.

          • Kinetic1

            Vigilant,
            I don’t know how you got so lost (it seems to be the thing to do today) but let me try and clear this up. Let’s say a businessman has a non-union shop. A union rep shows up and begins telling the workers about the benefits of joining a union. The employer does not want to have to deal with union negotiators, but he can’t very well just throw the rep out or tell his workers that he forbids them to unionize, so the obvious solution is to allow the workers to do as they wish, and if enough choose to join the union, set up a date for the vote. Now that the union advisors are gone, all you have to do is convince enough of the workers that unionizing is not in their best interest before the vote takes place. That’s the way it is, and that’s the way employers like things. If the bill should pass, then the employer will no longer have that time between the decision to vote and the vote itself.

            Nowhere in this scenario or in the previous post did I suggest that the employers wanted the bill to pass. It is simply not in their best interest.

          • Vigilant

            Sorry, kinetic, check the provisions of the proposed bill:

            Following from the Chamber of Commerce (and before you yell “conflict of interest!, just read what it says and then tell me if there is one distortion or misrepresentation here):

            http://www.uschamber.com/issues/labor/employee-free-choice-act-card-check-bill

            1. Eliminating the Private Ballot

            Card Check would effectively eliminate private voting.
            Under the existing law today, workers have a chance to vote for or against unionization in a private-ballot election that is federally supervised. Under Card Check, if more than 50% of workers at a facility sign a card, the government would have to certify the union, and a private ballot election would be prohibited—even if workers want one.

            By forcing workers to sign a card in public—instead of vote in private—Card Check opens the door to intimidation and coercion. Over 70% of voters agree that a private election is better than card check.

            2. Government Arbitration and Control
            Card Check could put government regulators in charge of private business decisions.
            Once a union is certified, the business and union would only have 120 days to reach agreement, before facing the prospect of being forced into binding arbitration. This means a panel of government arbitrators who may have no understanding of the business could impose a two year contract deciding all workplace terms—without any vote by the company or its employees.

            By placing government regulators in charge of a two-year decision, business flexibility is limited—at a time in our history when it is needed most. A recent poll found that 75% of voters believe government arbitrators should not decide the conditions of a union contract.

            3. Harsh New Penalties for Businesses
            Card Check would unfairly punish businesses.
            Card Check would impose harsh new penalties on businesses—but not on unions—for violations during the union recognition process. This is unfair, and potentially disastrous for small or medium businesses, who are not familiar with unionizing campaigns or the National Labor Relations Act. If Card Check passes, many of these businesses would be facing unionization for the first time.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jovianus,
            Have YOU ever been employed at a shop that has been raided by the union?? I have and they and the employees that invited them pressured EVERYONE to vote for the union! All the old man said to us was “do as you see fit!” Now, I’d say there was a whole lot more pressure from the union than the company. not only that, the union accused the old man of recording every meeting. He finally stood up and told them to find any recording device that they could find. They actually went over the meeting room with a fine toothed comb and found NOTHING!! Then when they found out they couldn’t sway the old man, they walked away from the company employees! We had an employees association that was like a union in that it bargained with the company for our benefits and pay and we were getting along pretty well as there wasn’t another stamping outfit that paid any better than us! now you tell me what the union did for US?

          • smilee

            DON CROSBY says:
            March 4, 2011 at 10:00 am

            DO YOU NOT BELIVE THE UNION IS TAKING THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME AND TRY TO CONVINCE THE OTHER 50 PERCENT TO VOTE FOR THE UNION? I CAN SAY THAT MOST BUSINESS OWENERS WILL NOT RESORT TO PRESSURING THE EMPLOYEES.

            RESPONSE:

            Apparently Don you have never been through one of these elections. I voted in three and the business owners resort to maximum pressure, in the last elections five of the women had to seek medical attention for stress one of them had so much stress her neck swelled up and one was told not to return to work until after the election, business are unrelenting in their cruelty. Unions on the other hand are lucky if when they have union meeting if 15% of the eligible voters attend, so they to not get the same opportunity as the employer who can compel meeting and does. we had to attend two meetings a day and each meeting was 1.5 hours long or three hours each day. Union success comes when the employee asks to meet secretly with a union organizer. Under the current proposed law there would still be an election if less than 50% + 1 had not joined the union seeking representation. Unions are the only organization you cannot join without fist signing a membership card and then also having to vote. I guess businesses do not believe their employees know what they want and therefore they want mandatory compliance to subject their employees to this abuse and if you can run that gauntlet successfully you can then be a member of a Union and receive their services. We won the election as the non union employees where we worked furnished us with documentation that proved that all they were telling us were lies . Non union employees where I worked where threatened with being fired if they socialized with us away form work and that made them mad and many contacted us in private and helped us win the election. Decent people that they where did not like seeing us being so beat up on. WE WON THE ELECTION!!

          • smilee

            smilee says:
            March 5, 2011 at 10:13 pm

            Vigilant says:
            March 4, 2011 at 8:47 pm

            Your entire post is totally all lies, you do not correctly tell how it is now or how it would be if this law was past all you are doing is repeating the corporate propaganda which totally distorts the reality. I have been through three elections in my life time and non was as you described them. Almost 40 years in a union and I have as yet not seen anyone in the union pressuring anyone to join but I have lived through the corporate arm twisting and it is not pretty. PURE HELL!!

          • Vigilant

            Smilee, you don’t have much reason to smile with an IQ as low as yours.

            I sourced my material, and I asked for anyone to find anything that misrepresented the truth. You have not addressed one, repeat one, of the Chamber of Commerce’s points, you simply paint with a broad brush and make accusations which which you prove nothing.

            Then you say, “Almost 40 years in a union and I have as yet not seen anyone in the union pressuring anyone to join but I have lived through the corporate arm twisting and it is not pretty. PURE HELL!!”

            So now, even if I grant your misrepresentation, you think it’s all right for the unions to engage in coercion?

            Next time, address the facts and not the emotions in your hand wringing, bombastic way.

        • dstk

          god, I can’t believe the stupidity of that last sentence… these people are doing a job, a service and are getting paid for it, PERIOD You sound like we are just giving them money, and so does this dictator of a governor… I live here and I know what’s going on, and I also know that Dem’s and Repub, WORKERS are standing here side by side… fighting for their rights. I don’t know how many times it has to be said the public employees (get that EMPLOYEES) HAVE AGREE, before this even happen with the protest, TO TAKE PAY CUTS.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Pay cuts, as I have understood the media, are not the issue. What the Govenor is going to do is require the start of pensoin contributions and a larger percentage of contributions to health care insurance.

            When I was a kid teachers were not unionized and the education system was oceans ahead of where it is today. I saw over the week end that only 34% of Wisconsin 8th greaders can read at the 8th grade level. That means that almost 66% cannot.

            The taxpayers are paying more and more and getting less and less.

            I also heard this morning on the radio that it has cost the state of Wisconsin 7.5 million dollars, so far, to clean up after those SEIU slobs in the capital.

          • JC

            I don’t care what the issues are for the Unions any more.
            I’m as tired of them and their collectivist thuggery as I am of a puppet government in bed with business.
            ALL of it needs to go!

          • Kinetic1

            Old Henry,
            When we were kids (I’m just guessing from your name that we are from the same general time) Mom was home with the kids, teachers were to be respected and getting good grades was something to be proud of. I truly believe that the problems in our schools are more the result of poor parenting than poor teachers. I know that in my daughter’s class there is one boy who is openly defiant and refuses to do his work. Were he my kid, he’d learn some respect and fast, but his parents seem to be at a loss to figure out how coddling him hasn’t fixed his problems. If the parents wont teach their kids how to act, and if they fail to be there when their kids need help with homework, what can you expect? Both of my school aged kids are doing very well, but then we are there to help them and their teacher, and we expect results.

            Then there is “no child left behind”, a destructive system of teaching kids to pass tests instead of teaching them how to think. Teachers are forced to spend less and less time on subjects like history, in order to improve their students test scores in math. Great idea! The more we can turn them into fact spewing drones, the better they will be at mindless jobs, like flipping burgers.

          • DaveH

            The answer to that question (whether poor parenting or poor teaching) has been answered by the fact that voucher recipients time after time are doing better than the non-recipients.

          • Kinetic1

            DaveH,
            Do they do better simply because they have moved to a better school, or does the influence of a parent that values education enough to seek vouchers have an impact as well? Students in schools with above average parent involvement consistently out perform comparable schools without.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Kinetic:

            I had fellow students like the ones you mentioned when I was in school. I am sure they were of fewer number than today, but there were also fewer people. Also, with the advance of the governmnet nany state mindset parenting has, I am sure, been adversely affected. Parents are of the mind that the government teacher will take care of raisning my kie(s).

            Also, there does seem to be more learning disabilities in kids today. I don’t know if it is actual, or a cop-pot.

            What has fostered this nany state mindset? Liberalism.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Kinetic,
            I am 60 and I remember when I was a kid if a teacher wasn’t doing their job, they could be let go! I remember that unruly kids could be sent to detention or suspended. I can still remember the paddle as well! now you paddle a kid, you get sued. you send a kid to detention, you better have a dam good reason or, again, you get sued! the main reason we are dropping like the murcury in winter on our standards is the kids that DO want to learn are being held up and being disrupted by the kids that DON”T want to learn!!

          • smilee

            Polls out today done in WI show 60% do not support the Governor. 46% strongly disagree with him. With polls like that the senators will stay in IL and the Governor and the republicans will get blamed for it. I predict in the end enough republicans will back away for the Governor.

          • Dan az

            This is what needs to be done in all states to curb the unions!
            http://www.projo.com/news/content/PROVIDENCE_SCHOOL_MEETINGS_02-25-11_MCMMBSG_v26.1bd455c.html

          • Patty

            dstk – that is because they know the jig is up. They know they have had it better than the people that support them. There “concessions” are not near enough. Gov. Walker did not go far enough. Their salaries should be reduced over the next 5 years until they are at the private sector level. Their bennies need to be brought back into line with the private sector. Dump their pensions, cash them out into a 401k with a 3% taxpayer match. Level the playing field at least to the level of the people who have to pay for them.

      • valricoslash

        They can still bargain. Only they can’t bargain over benefits. so what is the big — problem? These toads have been living off the public trough for years and now, as Obama’s favorite reverend would say, “The chickens have come home to roost.” What good is having a lucrative pension if there is no money in the kitty to send you a big fat check every month? Are all you union lemmings stupid? The Democrats who have given you this perceived windfall in retirement were simply passing the buck down the road knowing that they would probably not be around when the proverbial “shit hit the fan” so to speak. And, the best part of the governor’s plan is having each of you sit down and write a dues check to the union yourself each and every month. It’s like we taxpayers, writing a check to the state or the feds on April 15th. Perhaps then, you may have second thoughts about the value you are getting for your money, especially when the vast majority of it goes to the fat cat bosses and political payola. This is what the unions fear the most, the fact that their gravy train may take a serious hit by people who are tired of giving their money to politicians that they do not support.

        • spitfire

          I think what their problme is,is they see the beginning of the end. If this passes, then other more extreme union cuts will be coming. In the first place, if the demise of UNIONs does not come soon, we are all screwed. As a country, we can no longer afford UNIONs of any kind, and will not recover until they are gone.

          • eric Siverson

            actualy doctors have a union too . So do patent holders of intelectual property . For a fee patents can be extended behoynd the original time limit granting exclusive competition protection . There are now so many special deals and breaks that this country nolonger represents free enterprize in very many successfull busnesses . I know of no place in america where free enterprize realy thrives .

          • The Blue Collar Man

            Am I wrong to believe that the entire “RUST BELT OF MIDWEST AMERICA” was caused by UNIONS?
            Unions that caused thousands of businesses to close down and leave?
            Unions that broke the back of manufacturing America?

            If they aren’t the cause, where did all those jobs go?
            I tend to believe Union and the member’s GREED is the main cause.
            So many times in years past, I have read in the papers about Union problems at a particular company, strikes, then suddenly the company is gone, and workers suffer when their jobs go away, as well as the whole community.
            Somehow the high salaries and benefits weren’t good enough. The Unions figured they had the “Gun” to hold to the Company “head”, asked for even more, and priced themseleves out of a job.

            Now tell me, doesn’t that make Unions a threat to America? Persuade me, all we get are the “Bad” facts about Unions, and all the good things they do are kept a huge secret from us! Why when they strike, do we see all the thugs, and hear only all the nasty words they scream? Property damage and assults sometime occur, so is that something that is a lie? How many times have we seen that on TV? Is that all fake, and it’s scripted actors?
            Any reasonable person would say Unions “ARE” a threat to America.

          • gail

            They are doing a good job. Because of them the Unions are still in tact. The one thats going to lose his job is that #^!!@ governor. Impeachment is just around the corner.

          • Geo Kinerson

            How right you are, this great countrys demise is almost here because of the unions, they kept going for more and more until the corperate Co. was no more here in this country but had to move south of the boarder or to China. I am 77 years old, raised a large family, with fare pay from all my employers, one employer even gave $1000.00 Christmas bonus’ every year, had no union there….in fact, I have never in all my life belonged to a union. but I did attend a meeting once and all they did was drink beer and call each other commies. I did work for Western Electric that was unionized, I would not join, tthe union was up tide with me, but the Co. saw me as worth while and hired me into supervision. I had to cross their lines to go to work and earn my paycheck to support my family. I actually pray to God to deal with these unions for they are not trusting in God but in themselves to gain all the greed they can muster. Now watch the liberal thugs come running at me with their computers.

        • John

          I agree 100%.

        • Jules 59

          The Unions are worried and so are the Democrats, because most of the funding for the Democratic politicians has come from the Unions. What will they do if the Unions can’t take the money collected from tax payers and apply toward electing Democrats?

          • Jovianus

            I dunno..what will you do when all campaign funds come from corporations and wealthy donors…and leave the working man unrepresented?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jo, well do like it was suppose to be done in the first place, canpaign on honor, something your guys don’t know!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Campaign

          • Jovianus

            Angel….when the Republicans have honor, then we can talk. Despite the taling points fed to the robotic Far Right TPers, the dirty tricks are a majority GOP creation and applied. Dms do it as well…but the GOP has the lock on being the main transgressor. Just ask the good governor of Wisconasin why he took the call from a Koch Brother and ignored every other call that day. Of curse the Koch Bros don’t expect a return on thier investment do they … having so much honor and all that …

            Jeesh

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jo, you can blame the Koch Brothers__ we can blame Soros & Van Jones for indoctrinating our kids, that will stop too!

          • RealAmerican

            Sure the Republicans have a political strategy to attack the Democrats organizational donors (unions) and empower their own donors corporations (Citizens United). What will happen? Worst case scenario –The same that happened in the early 20th century, the people rise up and take back their country and we will put people in place who pass laws to restrict corporate power and guarantee citizens rights to free association. But I think the grassroots opposition to the Scott Walker extremists is so strong that that won’t come to pass. I even think the South is turning. The young people in Texas and Florida are proof of that.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            REAL:

            What does it matter if the unions are gone? The former members can still contribute to the dems on their own, if the want to. I guess the last 4 words of that sentence are the real issue for the dems.

            If the members are sooo supportive of the dems there should be no problem for the dems to collect tons of money from the former union members ON THEIR OWN.

          • Vigilant

            Jovi Anus once again mispeaks, “I dunno..what will you do when all campaign funds come from corporations and wealthy donors…and leave the working man unrepresented?”

            Ever hear of public funding? Ever hear of a guy named Obama who said he would take only public campaign funding? And then broke his promise almost immediately when he discovered he could get megabucks more from the unions and DemoPACs?

            And I’m sure you ignored my link http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php that shows who the REAL heavy hitters have been in the last 20 years: UNIONS! And three guesses whom they supported/funded.

            You leftist idiots wouldn’t know (or acknowledge) a fact even if it hits you square in the face.

        • Jovianus

          Sure thing…and btw, those unions who supported the governor in the last election are exempt from the bill. Makes ya wonder what it really is for doesn’t it?

          Here’s a suggestion…if it’s so popular with the public as the good governor and GOP states….heck, just refer it to the voters to decide. Or…is it really that popular with the public? Hmmmmm …

          • valricoslash

            Better watch what you wish for Jo. The public just might vote to ban public service unions, including those for police and firefighters along with teachers and do nothing bureaucrats, altogether. No one is guaranteed or has a right to a government job for life. It is a privilage to work for the public. If you don’t like the pay, benefits, or working conditions you have the right to find another job. It is as simple as that. No one is stopping you.

          • Jovianus

            Not wishing for anything. Just pointing out the obvious. If the governor and state GOP leaders are to be believed…the issue would pass with huge margins. So…ask yourself. if what they are stating is true, why don’t they let the voters decide? I mean…as Angel was stating above, if they have honor, they wouldn’t be lying would they?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jo, whay should it be put to a peoples votes, so you can bus in more Union cronies from another state, to swing the vote?_-I trust you guys, like I trust a heart attack!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe
          • Jovianus

            Angel Wannabe..I’m not going to embarress you or out you as a deliberate misleader or just plain out of touch…but perhaps you may want to check the newest Rasmussen poll…a noted GOP friendly polling company.

            You may also want to look at the respected polls…y’know, the ones who are close to reality without bias?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            jo, talk about biased Jo __Wow, if thats not the Pot calling the Kettle Black!

          • Dan az

            Jo Jo
            I would luv to see a vote on it kinda like the one we just got done with.In fact I would take odds on it if you would like!

          • Vigilant

            So Jovi Anus discloses his true feelings when he states, “If the governor and state GOP leaders are to be believed…the issue would pass with huge margins. So…ask yourself. if what they are stating is true, why don’t they let the voters decide? I mean…as Angel was stating above, if they have honor, they wouldn’t be lying would they?”

            Yes, sonny, that’s great. Every time you don’t agree with a state legislature or the Congress, you would put it all to a popular vote. I guess you didn’t get the word from your history teachers: WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC!” Legislators are ELECTED by the people to transact the business of legislation. And Democrat Wisconsin senators are sabotaging the legislative process.

            In reply to your question, “why don’t they let the voters decide?” the answer is “the voters DID decide in the voting booth already.”
            And you, of all people, should be careful what they wish for. If Obamacare and bailouts had been popularly voted on, they wouldn’t exist today, the federal gov’t would have enforced the immigration laws and not sued the state of Arizona, and sanctuary cities would have been cut off from funding…and cap and tax, trillion dollar budgets, the “fairness” doctrine, and card check would never see the light of day.

          • DaveH

            Actually, Jovianus, Rasmussen is a very reputable polling firm. They do random polling amongst the general population, just as a good polling firm is supposed to.
            They aren’t just polling their viewers such as a Newspaper or a NewsStation might do.
            Perhaps you could show us a poll from a similarly reputable firm to contradict us?

          • smilee

            Jovianus says:
            March 4, 2011 at 1:43 pm

            Even NEWSMAX reports that walker is in trouble in the polls and is campaigning for help for him. Independents also dislike his arrogance and his refusal to talk with his opponents. Independents want to see solutions not what walker is doing and I think many republicans now think his stubbornness is hurting them

          • smilee

            DaveH says:
            March 5, 2011 at 8:47 am

            The Rasmussen poll does contradict you!!

        • Larry Owens

          the democrat/union/obama solution is just Raise Taxes see how simple that is. The taxpayer is happy (chuckle) the union bosses/ members/obama are really Happy it solves their problem and they live happily ever after. Come on we can bleed the taxpayers there are to stupid to know.

          • get right

            Larry, have you seen the latest research done by the Univ of Maryland? It is interesting, wait till you see how the Independents and repubs responded. It is long, so you probably won’t read it. But maybe when you want to know how people really feel, you will read it.
            http://www.cissm.umd.edu/papers/files/how_the_american_public_would_deal_with_the_budget_deficit.pdf

          • Vigilant

            “get right” gets it wrong again.

            Do you really expect us to take that UMD report seriously? I checked the URL and didn’t need to go further than the first couple of pages.

            Not only was it an obviously biased report by the uber-liberal University of Maryland, the project was funded by the Circle Foundation and the Calvert Foundation. Once I saw that, I went no further. I don’t need to waste my valuable time reading a propaganda sheet written of, by, and for the socialist would-be destroyers of our nation.

            You really didn’t think we’d fall for that, did you?

        • Kinetic1

          Val,
          Here’s an article for you.
          http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/comment-page-3/

          In a nut shell, it explains that Wisconsin’s government workers are already paying their full compensation. I’ll let the article explain.
          “Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.”

          “How can this be possible? Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.”

          • Vigilant

            Wow! That’s not only voodoo economics, that’s screwy mathematics to boot.

            “Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.”

            I see, and the state workers get some sort of manna from Heaven to fund this? WHO THE HELL PAYS THE WORKERS IN THE FIRST PLACE?

          • Vigilant

            And BTW, it was precisely this type of “deferred compensation” that put states like CA and NY on the brink of bankruptcy! Honest to God, the labrynthine liberal mind is something I’ll never figure out.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          varico,
          It’s an unfunded liability just like those wars the libbies complain about. If we don’t have the money, they just expect it to be printed from thin air or borrowed!! Take what they make now, subtract what they pay in taxes and pay them that and no taxes. There will be no difference in the coffers as their WHOLE package comes from taxes and NOTHING else!
          Take everybody in the private sector and do the same thing, and the government will be broke!!

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Kinetic1… The Jews want to take over Wisconsin? What is that about? Hitting the stuff pretty early in the day, aren’t you?

        • Kinetic1

          Robin,
          That was sarcasm (sorry you missed that.) Note that I was responding to someone who referenced an article from former KKK Grand Dragon David Duke, a man who’s anti Semitic views have nothing to do with the protests in Wisconsin, so I was joking about a link.

          • eddie47d

            Kinetic; That just shows that they don’t read everything. The Insurgent only posted that to stir up trouble as if Chip couldn’t do that all by himself.

        • Bruce D.

          You may be right about that Robin. Usually Kenetic1′s posts are more intelligent than that. That has got to be the craziest post I have ever seen come from him by far.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Bruce D. Thanks… Eddie thought I was trying to stir things up. Hahaha! Not me; I’m a conservative! I really didn’t get it and was glad that Kinetic1 explained it without being nasty. Sometimes between the posts and the articles things get a little blurred and I was hoping he wasn’t being anti-Jewish.

          • Kinetic1

            Bruce,
            These are the sorts of posts that leave me wondering most about our nation’s literacy. Let me break this down for you.

            1)”you want to take us off on some anti Semitic rant with former KKK grand dragon David Duke?!” You see the question mark accented by the exclamation point? This shows that I am not only questioning the previous posters intentions, but that I am amazed that he would suggest a link between the protests and Jewish organized crime.

            2) “Yes, that’s it! This whole protest is about the Jews taking control of Wisconsin!” Following up on that statement of incredulity, I have followed with an equally absurd statement. This is how one uses sarcasm to make a point about how foolish they feel someone is.

            3) “How could I have missed it?” Here I have accented the sarcasm, just to drive the point home.

            4 “{~:” This little guy with his tongue sticking out is a message for those of you who might have missed the sarcasm. I guess I should have used something more obvious. like “HEY! THIS IS SARCASM!!!!”

            And one final note. If you, Dave or Robin are “average” adults, you have had more to drink over the last week than I have had in my life. Same goes for recreational Drugs. I just have never understood the desire to be out of control.

          • Bruce D.

            Kinetic1 you sound desperate. Do you think anyone cares about some pathetic explanation of sarcasm which ends with more sarcasm.

          • eddie47d

            Robin; You actually proved my point about reading things well. I was commenting on the Insurgent who was the first poster, not you.

          • Kinetic1

            Robin,
            Sorry to let you down. When one person misunderstands my post, I will do my best to explain (as I did) and make corrections if needed. When others begin to jump on the band wagon and there is nothing that really needs clearing up, well then I get a bit annoyed.

      • Laurie, Haslet, TX

        the unions DO GET TO KEEP Collective Bargaining and it is MENTIONED.
        They keep collective bargaining on PAY only, not pensions and healthcare.

        YOU LIBS keep lying about that part or do not KNOW what is in the bill at all and only parroting what the unions tell you to parrot.

        union dues will be VOLUNTARY – no longer required. Frees up funds to pay their FAIR SHARE of healthcare and pensions.
        Your UNION BOSSES hate that because they cannot launder that money to the corrupt Democrats campaign funds and the HUGE SALARIES of the Union leaders.

        The MAJORITY OF AMERICANS KNOW you are lying – we are FAR MORE INTELLIGENT – you libs cannot stand that!

        • JR

          I believe in 2012 the “majority” in America will vote. I fear, the outcome will not be pretty for some.

        • Kinetic1

          Laurie,
          We bow to your superior intellect! (Note for Robin, this is sarcasm again.) As such, I humbly point out that recent polls show that the majority of Americans support the teacher’s protest. Maybe they forgot to include Texans.

          • eddie47d

            Laurie; Yes unions collect union dues and what is so unusual about that.Advertising for political candidates do not come out of dues which you and others seem to assume. There are political action committees and they ask for donations on a voluntary basis. No one is forced to pay for or endorse a particular candidate. The same thing is done by right leaning groups for their favorite candidates. In my 40 years in the union I have only given 4 times so that doesn’t amount to much. No arm twisting or busting heads like the right is always assuming.

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Virginia

            I don’t know what poll you are referring to. The polls I have seen show the exact opposite, siding with Gov. Walker. Also I have read and heard, teachers whom are ashamed of what their colleagues (there are only a few) are doing in Wisconsin. Trashing the Capital! The majority of the people causing this rukus, ARE PAID UNION THUGS!

          • Jovianus

            OK Virginia…I’m calling you on that one. Cite one generally accepted poll showing what you’re claiming.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe
          • http://! Angel Wannabe
          • http://! Angel Wannabe
          • barbm

            darn straight they didn’t include texas. BIG protest in austin to support the unions. about 200 out of over 25 million showed up. this is a right-to-work state and always will be. you heard about that texas toilet tissue right? had to take it off the market because it wouldn’t take s@@t off anybody.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            barbm, LOL!

          • DaveH
          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Daveh, Imagine that!!!

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Hey Verginia:

            Is there a Santa Claus?

            The SEIU seems to think so……

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Sorry. That should be Virginia.

            D*mned keyboard.

          • get right

            Repubs and conservatives don’t need unions, they have lobyists doing their work for them!!!Only problems is the bennies go to the rich. LMAO

          • smilee

            Virginia says:
            March 4, 2011 at 10:07 am

            I do not where you get your info but even NEWSMAX, this blogs newspaper is reporting that walker is in trouble in the polls and nowhere have I seen what you claim

        • JeffH

          Laurie, you are correct in that the MSM and the unions conveniently keep chanting the same chant…Walker wants to destroy the unions and collective bargaining.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Bruce!?

          Ya’all fergot the quistion mark afer yer lass sentence….

        • gail

          will this go

      • AntiUnion Teacher

        Reread the article! Chip DID mention the collective bargaining. It is a fair and well written article. It is obvious you have been brainwashed by the union thugs and spoiled by the generous pay package! I am a public school teacher in CA and totally agree with the governor!! In this economy, why do public employees think they should not pay the price like rest of the private sector?? The union thugs (leadership) are only looking to keep the unions going. I see our self-interested union WASTE $4 million a year in dues!! We don’t need collective bargaining, schools would be willing to pay effective teachers fairly! I spent 20 years in the public sector and have spent the last seven in public education. Charter schools and vouchers would certainly turn around education and get rid if the “waste of time and money” unions!

        Stand strong governor.

        • AntiUnion Teacher

          Oops, meant to say I spent 20 years in the PRIVATE sector.

        • barbm

          it’s all those union dues and high salaries for people with high school educations that have driven the cost of autos sky high and made a lot of businesses take their plants overseas and our jobs with them.

          • get right

            barbm, do you ever check out prices for cars in other countries?? Get in the game and read. Our unions did not drive up prices for autos, world wide the prices are market driven. Try and buy a Ford in England and you will see that they pay even more than we do.

          • barbm

            now, why in the world would i give a ___ about car prices in other countries? i know that both foreign and domestic cars are close to the same price for a similar class of car. you shouldn’t be able to build a vehicle in another country, put it on a ship with all the expense that entails, and bring it to us for the same price of a car built here. those auto workers have highschool diplomas but make more than a teacher.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Get Right:

            One reason Europeans pay more is due to the fact that the U.S. dollar is currently the currency that all others are compared to and exchange rates govern their value. From all indications this is about to change.

            See the article just below Chip’s.

        • Kinetic1

          AntiUnion,
          I read the article, and the point I was making is that Chip failed to mention that the teachers were willing to take pay cuts and contribute more to their pensions, but wanted to keep their right to collective bargaining. The right wants to portray Wisconsin’s teachers as a bunch of spoiled, overpaid brats who are unwilling to sacrifice to help the state. The truth is that they are willing to sacrifice, but are reluctant to allow this to turn into a union busting bonanza.

          As to the voucher system, it sounds good at first, but the inevitable results are not so great. As it stands today, most (but not all) private schools do provide a better education than our public schools. They are free from many of the regulations our public system faces, and they have the ability to simply reject students that they feel will be disruptive. So take a smart, well behaved kid out of his tough inner city school, place him in a private school through the voucher system and watch him thrive. Republican logic then states that this is proof that the public sector can do a better job than the state, so let’s privatize all schooling. So who’s going to take the troubled kids? Who’s going to take the kid’s being raised by a single parent who has little time to work with their kid? Next thing you know, the best schools with the best behaved kids and most involved parents will also be the most expensive. Vouchers will only cover the cost of the cheeper schools where all the troublesome kids end up. So we’re back to square one, except that it now costs even more to do a half assed job.

      • Bob

        Your post makes about as much sense, and contains about as much truth, as the babbling of a lunatic.

        • AntiUnion Teacher

          Thank you.

          • Bob

            That was for Kinetic, not you Anti-Union Teacher.

        • Kinetic1

          Bob,
          Well let’s see, the teachers did say they would accept the cuts, so that truth has been established. The comment about Jews causing the trouble in Wisconsin was sarcasm, so truth is not an issue here. I guess your problem must have something to do with my assertion that Insurgent’s attempt to redirect us to an anti Semitic site was out of place in this discussion. Does that mean that you feel David Dukes opinion has merit in this conversation?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            kinetic,
            I think bob was commenting on your post After the comment about what concessions the teachers were willing to take!! Besides, it doesn’t matter what the teachers are willing to take if the union bosses don’t like it!!

          • Kinetic1

            Joe,
            The union presented the offer to the Governor, so it really comes down to Gov. Walkers refusal to accept anything less than then end of union involvement (sort of like what he said to the fake Koch brother.)

      • Jovianus

        Let’s examine this..though it’s somewhat lengthy to be precise on every “characterization’ the author attempts to denigrate and assassinate. (recall the one article a week or so ago where Chip applauded the appearance that we were on a path for a return to civility and cessation of characer attacks)

        In comment on the state Senators leaving the state and denying a quorom…” It may be one of the most undemocratic things I’ve seen in years”. I dunno…I believe it to be a clear indication of what occurs when people are denied the right to discuss and debate bad legislation in an open, public forum and take public testimony etc. How about ardering the arrest of elected officials because they used a parlementary rule to protect their constituents? Or tapping into Hoeland Security (illegally I might add) to track them down. Would that not be undemocratic? See eg Karl Rove and Delay’s antics in texas a few years back. Or bottling up every piece of legislation while in the minority seating, whether good or bad legilsation, for the sole reason it came from “the other side”? See eg the past two years of the antics of the party of No. Or how about taking two years to gerrymander a state redistricting to minimze voting power of the people…some districts being 100 yards wide at times, others being drawn smack down the middle of a street, then curving totake one house in, then back to the middle of the street (see eg Texas above, and various other states during the last redistricting in GOP held states). And on and on.

        Fact is…politicians get power crazed and an attitude thinking they can do anything they want to dictate. That’s why there are avenues to thwart wanna be dictators. If it weren’t an all out grab for power, clearly aied at people who dare hold a different view…then there would not be a hard block of opposition party members walking and staying away. If the legslation had any merit of ‘good’ for the working man…you’d think there would be one senator who would break ranks and come back wouldn’t you?

        “how about the violent and obscene demonstrations against Walker and his conservative supporters by members of the teachers union and other public employees?” Don’t know of any violence. Don’t know of any obscenities. No arrests, no riots, just day after day of peaceful protests by teahcers, secretaries, policement, firemen, highway workers, clerks, etc. Y’know…the average citizen and working man. Wait…I did hear of one plot to disrupt peaceful protests and turn it into a riot …that came from the good governor.

        ” Now they are going absolutely ballistic at the thought of their plum benefits being trimmed by even a nickel.” Errrr….I thought they ceded the reductions in benefits and pay. Noted that these were NEVER negotiated, rather the agreement with the state employees was torn up with the word of the state being shown worthless…but nevertheless, these were ceded and are not in any form the basis for the protests and rebellion against a governor and a politicall party diligent and intent on destroying the rights of the working man and stealing the state blind to pay of their financial backers.

        Criminey..this is already a long post and I have work to do. Something the GOP and good governor should learn about. Instead of trying to rob the state, denigrate the protestors and common working man, and ordering the arrest of state senators, orders which blatantly conflict with the state constitution.

        BTW…as to voting every year whether on union representation? Think maybe the good governor and the GOP state senators facing recall agree they should be subject to a vote barely two months into the elected cycle…y’know, an annual election?

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Jo, Hey Jo__Did ya ever hear the old saying, “I’ve heard people talk for an hour and not say a damn thing?”_Same goes for typing, longer is not necessarily better!

          • Carlucci

            I think it is called “verbal vomiting”….

          • Larry Owens

            ha, ha , ha, my thought exactly.

            blowing a lot of hot typing air.

        • Angel

          Jovianus – thank you for the thoughtful, informative reply. Unfortunately, it is wasted on the sheep here.

          • JeffH

            …Angel, are you sure…it seems the communist radicals and union thugs were “flocking” into Madison to party and protest…now if I remember correctly, a group of sheep is called a “flock”…

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Angel, Your Liberal thoughts are wasted here too my dear, we ain’t listening!!! ;)

          • TIME

            angel,
            As my Granson said a few years back, Tell it to the hand.

            Hows your little sheep skin fitting you anyway?

          • JC

            I think Jovianus posts his ridiculous comments that promote communism and then signs back in as Angel and compliments himself…herself…

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            JC, almost sounds like it!

        • ValDM

          Jo,
          Does the union pay you to shill for them? Talk about work…..isn’t this your work????????????????

          • eddie47d

            There is always one fool who insists that someone is getting paid to post their thoughts. ValDM is the thought police for today.

          • Jovianus

            Eddie…betwee you and I, if all those claims made are true, we could retire and live the life of luxury. Heck, I’d be one of those ultra rich and wouldn’t even have to pay my fair share of taxes !

          • libertytrain

            Well you ought to spend some of your time looking. If you need more income. :)

          • get right

            Libertytrain, where did he say he needed more income??

          • libertytrain

            Eyes, he didn’t particularly, just seems bored.

          • libertytrain

            sorry Get Right, old habits die hard. I shouldn’t call you eyes any more. You are Get Right. I’ll get it in my brain sooner or later. I’m getting old.

        • chow

          Shorten your diatribe…it get boring to read long post. After the first paragraph I’m no longer interested. So get to point and be concise.

          • smilee

            chow

            sounds like you are just too lazy and probably closed minded as well

        • barbm

          none of your excuses/explanations really matter because the issue will still be there waiting for them when they return. all they’ve managed to do is cause teachers to walk out on their jobs which made schools close. that was REAL good for the kids. now they’ll have to make up those days or lose federal funding. i don’t want those kinds of irresponsible people teaching my kids. if i were walker, i’d fire every teacher who didn’t show up for work and jerk the license of every doctor who gave them fake excuses.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Barbm:

            This one is off-topic. I was listening to the news about our military helping to deliver needed supplies to Libiyan refugees fleeing the country’s dictator.

            All at once it hit me. They have a place to run from their dictator. Where will we have to run from our dictator when he accomplishes Soros’ goal and brings us down?!

            Then it occurred to me!

            The Rebublic of Texas!!!

            Keepin perfect rythum makes me wanna sing alongggg. That honky tonk ba donky donk! Man! I love that gitar!

        • DaveH

          Jovianus says “when people are denied the right to discuss and debate bad legislation in an open, public forum and take public testimony etc.”

          You mean like with the Health Care Bill?

          • smilee

            DaveH

            There was oodles of committee meeting on the health care bill and all public in addition to public meetings between the president and the republican caucuses and another pubic meeting between the president and the leaders of both parties and it took a year, there was none in WI so the two and not comparable. Gee I had given you more credit for intelligence than this statement of yours suggests

        • Bob

          Too bad the Republicans did not think of this strategy. No quorum in the Senate, no vote for Obamacare.

        • Kinetic1

          Jovi,
          I did hear of one incident where the police had to take action, but it wasn’t the protestors causing the trouble.
          “MADISON, Wis. — Madison police said a 29-year-old Madison woman was cited for disorderly conduct after she spat on a 10-year-old protester and on a Dane County sheriff’s deputy in downtown Madison on Sunday morning.
          Police said the 10-year-old girl was holding a sign and chanting: “What’s disgusting, union busting,” when Gozde Cakici spit at the girl. The spittle ended up on the girl’s scarf.

          As for any other violence, only FOX seems to be reporting it, and then they have to resort to showing footage from an unrelated protest on the West coast. Fair and balanced!

          • DaveH

            Different location, same old Union Thugs.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          jovianus,
          Good, then let’s take up parlamentary rules and start a vote of no confidence or as most people know it a vote of recall and see how fast they return to their jobs!! Don’t forget, the progs did the same thing when they had a super majority and shut out the repubs and blue dogs! you didn’t see them run out stamping their feet, they were forced to take it standing!!

        • AntiUnion Teacher

          Fact is, union leaders are as greedy as the b@stard politicians!! I was told by our union president when I first started teaching that the union was there for my rights. When I asked about my rights not to join the union, she became incredibly silent. I also asked about my right of not having my dues being wasted on every damn liberal (or any politician for that matter) and union trips, but again, absolute silence. Unions have played a very destructive part in our country, as has every greedy politician and avaricious executive!! We need to get back to individual responsibility and a solid work ethic. As a society, the morals and values expressed through the Ten Commandments (Scripture) were erraticated from our psyche and now we are paying the price. My hope and trust are not in the unions, corporations or the politicians–they’re the ones who got us into this mess!!

      • s c

        Comrade K, your off-the-chart hypocrisy is showing – again. You have been programmed to do whatever your handlers want. You pretend to be a victim, when the REAL victims are the American people.
        I have NEVER had a job where I could abandon the workplace and get away with it. I don’t know anyone who has been allowed to tell an employer to piss off and still keep a job. WHO the hell do you think you are?
        In my world, anyone who acts like scum gets treated like scum. I see no reason to give people like you the benefit of a doubt. Enjoy your 15 minutes of media delusion. When the smoke clears, you’re going to have to live in the real world.
        You are an ideal useful idiot, and until you can see the error of your ways, you serve NO purpose in this country. AND, your role models in Wisconsin should NOT expect America to cater to children posing as adults. Stick it, comrade. Stick it anywhere it ‘feels’ good. It’s YOUR choice.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          sc, I worked for a Union for a time, I remember if we left our jobs b/c we weren’t getting our own way, it was called a “WildCat” Strike! You were fired, Johnny on the spot over it!!_-Except when the Union Reps got involved and got your Job back!

        • Freedom

          s c

          You can “SAY THAT AGAIN!”

      • http://yahoo Ed

        if that were true … and its not .. but if it were … Jews know how to balance a check book .. and THAT is the issue here … so it would still be a positive solution….

      • peter robison

        Kinetic1.
        As usual, Chip spouts the typical right wing rhetoric, filled with misinformation, half truths and outright lies. Kind of like the Fox report on the unruly Wisconsin demonstrators, with palm trees in the background!!!.

        • Bruce D.

          The state needs to be able to fire incompetent teachers on the spot, give out merit pay, and make school vouchers available for anyone who wants them. We can not longer afford a corrupt teachers union. The kids are not getting a good education. Something has to change and ending collective bargaining that rewards those that are incompetent is an important part of that change.

          • Jovianus

            Who sould have the authority to fire them? An incompetent politically placed hack with an agenda ?

          • chow

            No the taxpayers should have the right to fire them. What I mean is close all public schools and sell the properties to private companies to open it as private schools then parents can pay for their children education. In other words I’m saying the government shouldn’t be in the business of education.

          • Biff

            Yes! Let’s privatize education! Now who should replace the government as the regulators of education? I vote that religious leaders should become the new overseers of our children’s education. Let’s have a madrassahs in every neighbourhood.

          • Jovianus

            GEAT IDEA BIFF ! I say we use my religion as the base … since mine is better than everyone else’s ! Let’s do it ! No objection from anyone right?

          • Biff

            No Jovianus… you have to use MY religion! Mine is the one true religion, if you don’t believe in MY religion then you must be a heretic and MY book says that you must be burned at the stake! Or is it stoned to death? Maybe you’re supposed to be beheaded? Oh well, whatever, I will teach the students of MY school to hate the students of YOUR school and work towards the grand holy war we all surely must want.

          • DaveH

            Thank you, Liberals, for exposing to the readers just how ridiculous your arguments can get.

          • Biff

            Dave? Yes, exposing the ridiculous proposition of “Privatized Education” was exactly my point. How or why does that make me a liberal?

          • JC

            Biff, there’s nothing as ridiculous in the field of education as calling what we have now…”education”. I would prefer a private system that actually teaches reality as opposed to collectivist indoctrination.

          • get right

            Bruce, let me know when you and the radical right begin the attack on Nurses. I just can’t wait….cause then you gonna die waiting for them to help you…. should be very, very interesting. Nurses know that they will be the next target and are now getting ready. You can do without police, a little more crime and deaths, firemem, a few fires, but nurses, thousands dying daily…. come on… begin the attacks, the nurses’ unions are ready for ya!!!!!

          • Bruce D.

            The problem with the left is that they condone and support incompetent teachers. That is the by-product of progressive/socialism. There is nothing radically right about wanting to clean up a corrupt union and corrupt educational system.

          • Kinetic1

            I’ll give you on thing JC, I agree that it is ridiculous to allow a collective (such as the Texas school board) to dictate what our kids should be taught. If they had it their way our kids would attend private Christian schools where they would learn only the Republican version of history. Talk about indoctrination!

          • eddie47d

            Bruce D. Yes public schools have faults but when was the last time you observed a public school classroom or have seen the work these teachers do?

          • JC

            Kinetic, almost all school boards are as much a part of the problem as the Unions and the powers that be dictating curriculum. When you throw it all in the same pot you get Communist Soup.

          • DaveH

            LOL. The Ignorant Liberal Get Right has just given us a very good reason to keep Unions out of life-or-death service sectors.

        • JeffH

          peter robison, of course you haven’t listed any the proof that Chip has any outright lies in his article. PROOF rather than rhetoric comrad.

          • Angel

            Stephen Colbert points out that if peaceful Wisconsin protesters didn’t want Bill O’Reilly and Fox to show footage of violent protesters from California, then they should have been violent themselves.

            http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376076/march-02-2011/wisconsin-prank-call-bill

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            jeffh, Obviously the Libs have nothing else to go on, so they accuse others of the same thing they themselves do, I learned at lot about the libs, in over a year on here! :)__Sal Alinsky-ites baby!

          • JC

            Angel says:
            March 4, 2011 at 10:18 am
            Stephen Colbert points out

            Well that certainly explains it!
            And Colbert is an idiot too!

          • Vigilant

            C’mon now JC, Colbert and Stewart are legitimate news sources for the leftist loons.

        • Angel

          It is a known fact that the Alinsky groups brought those palm trees with them and purposely wore summer attire so that they could brutally savage Fox media and the dozen counter-protesters and deny it. Everyone knows this is true, so wise up!

          • FauxNewsSheep

            Hi… I watch Faux News religiously. If Bill O’Reilly says people are protesting in short sleeved shirts in Wisconsin, in February, then it’s got to be true. If Faux News shows protesters in Wisconsin, protesting in front of palm trees, then it’s got to be true. As long as Faux News says what I want it to say, I’ll turn off my brain, suspend my intelligence and do what they tell me to do. AND! Now that I know there are palm trees in Wisconsin maybe I’ll vacation there.

          • FauxNewsSheep

            And while I’m at it… I’ll screech as loud as I can about Saul Alinsky tactics that the other side uses. BUT, every time Faux News does it I’ll just accept it like a good little lamb. I’ll never get ticked off that “the most trusted news source” has resorted to manipulated video. I’ll never demand that Faux News actually tries to be ‘fair and balanced”. Nope, just give me the “talking points” and spin, spin spin.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Fausnewssheep, boy your really are Liberally infected_WOW!–Theres is medicine for ask TIME__Its called an open mind!

          • JeffH

            FauxNewsSheep, could you please repaeat yourself, I couldn’t understand that last baaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh out of your mouth?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            jeffh, IT ALMOST SOUNDS LIKE A FURP!!!_-HE WANTED TO FART, BUT BURPED INSTEAD! :)

          • FauxNewsSheep

            Well played Angel and JeffH! Not a word about the video showing palm trees and short-sleeved shirts in Wisconsin. You just attack and avoid the topic. No debate, no response to the misleading video. The very Alinsky tactics you accuse everyone else of JeffH. Angel? Jeff? When did you two become liberals?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            fauxnewssheep, we learned from the best, YOU! ;)

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            FAUXNEWSHEEP, btw, now that the shoes on the other foot, hows that workin’ out fo ya’s?

          • FauxNewsSheep

            Angel W? Jeff H? Still no reply to the point of the post? What’s your response to the misleading video of union thugs in short-sleeved shirts allegedly protesting in Madison on a Wisconsin winter day? You know that palm trees don’t grow in Wisconsin, so why are you not outraged that Bill O’Reilly used footage out-of-context? Simple questions that just require an honest answer? I’m interested in your honest response.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            faux sheep news or whatever your suppose to be, I do exactly, what I want, when I want to do it_-I make no excuses for my Ring Wing Think_-I don’t go on Progressive Web sites just for the Challenge, unlike you! You seem to have the crazy notion, that people on a Conservative site really care about what you have to say, but I hate to tell you this chick doesn’t. I’ve worked for myself since I was seventeen,with an occassinal part time job. I’m 54 and have dealt with my share of snot nosed brats like you, who think they know it all, by reading a bunch of polls, listening to your commie leaders, and nothing but doublespeak. You try and provoke everyone one here, but when its’ done to you, then you go into attack mode__save it for Alinsky Class__You need the practice!!!___You Liberals are and always have been, the GREAT CONISSURES OF USING EVERYONE ELSES MONEY, EXCEPT YOUR OWN.ie, SOCIALISM/Communism soft. Nothing you have to say interests me, we have nothing in common_ but_ I do like to yank your chains now and again, just for fun! :) __ Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna grab a cup of coffee, and sit and chat with some folks on here, until I gotta go to work!

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            FAUX:

            If yo listen to O’Reilley you have, indeed, turned your brain off.

            He is a caracture of…… himself.

          • JeffH

            OK FAUX…here it is…in living color just for you.

            http://www.mediaite.com/tv/no-fox-news-did-not-lie-with-wisconsin-palm-tree-violent-protest-video/

            Want to post an apology now? I’m waiting….

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            JeffH, Well done detective JEFF! :)

          • karolyn

            OMG, AngelWannabee – Why don’t YOU try opening up YOUR mind once in a while?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Karolyn, when I hear something of value I listen,I haven’t heard ANY Liberal spin that appeals to me__Sorry to burst your bubble!!

          • Karolyn

            You ain’t burstin’ MY bubble!

          • JeffH

            FauxNewsSheep, I’m still waiting…just say baaaahhhhh!

          • eddie47d

            Thanks Jeff; There is another video right above that one. Shows right wingers with about 25 Americans flags shouting vile insults to Muslim women and children. Those protests were sponsored by a California Congressman. I doubt if they represent the best of what America has to offer but they were protesting in the Name of America.The Wisconsin protesters are angels compared to the ethnic hatred the right shows. Don’t worry Jeff I won’t point that video out to the anti-union crowd. I hate to see a grown man cry.

          • JeffH

            eddie, other than the fact that you’re just plain stupid, what you say has absolutely nothing to do with my post. You troll up and down these columns making illiterate comments that have nothing to do with nothing other than what you pea brain can produce…”it’s the greedy corporations and corporate CEO’s bonuses that ruin America”…

          • eddie47d

            A little upset Jeffy? Does the truth hurt? Yes it has everything to do with your credibility.

          • get right

            Faux, funniest thing I have read in ages!!! Right on target!!

          • Kinetic1

            Jeff,
            O’Reilly says that things are getting rough all over, then shows footage that says “union protests”. There is no indication where the footage is from, and the implication is that this is how all the protests are going, including Wisconsin. Does he say this footage is from Wisconsin? No, but he doesn’t say that it is not. In fact, the only footage they had from Wisconsin showed non violent protesters shouting, but that didn’t stop FOX.

            “Fox News used footage shot by a local Wisconsin photographer to falsely label Wisconsin union protesters as “violent.” The video showed protesters confronting Republican State Senator Glenn Grothman as he attempted to enter the Wisconsin capitol building. Although the video clearly showed no violence being committed and in fact, the protesters breaking into chants of “peace” and “peaceful,” Fox falsely depicted the crowd as “violent protesters” and an “angry union mob” who “ambush[ed]” Grothman.”

            The man who shot the footage was so angered by FOX’s depiction of the confrontation as violent that he has gone on record condemning FOX.

            “Let there be no ambiguity: I condemn the use of my work to distort the truth about the spirited but non-violent protests here in Madison. I believe that this is a genuinely dangerous narrative that Fox News is helping to create.”

            So why would FOX use footage of “violent” protests from other locals when talking about Wisconsin? Because they don’t have any real footage to support their agenda. O’Reilly may not have been “lying”, but you and I both know that this footage was used to mislead inattentive viewers and implicate the Wisconsin protesters through association.

          • eddie47d

            That is not good news for FOX for pulling those kind of stunts.

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Virginia

          Video’s don’t lie either! Watch your peaceful demonstration?

          • Jovianus

            Sure videos lie. There have been several instances of videos being doctored. The most famous one is the doctored video about ACORN and the prostitute rings. But then…it was a video and you believed it…right/ Do you believe in Star Trek as well? That’s on video …

          • Bruce D.

            Making excuses for ACORN really causes you to lose all credibility.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jo, Video doctoring you say?__You guys are masters at it! :)

          • DaveH

            You are lying about lying videos on Acorn, Jovianus.
            Prove otherwise.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Bruce D_-You are Dead on!!

          • Kinetic1

            For God sakes Dave, the proof regarding ACORN was seen everywhere but FOX. Here’s an article from the New York Daily News;
            “Brooklyn prosecutors on Monday cleared ACORN of criminal wrongdoing after a four-month probe that began when undercover conservative activists filmed workers giving what appeared to be illegal advice on how to hide money.”
            “”They edited the tape to meet their agenda,” said the source.”

            And here are some comments from former Massachusetts Attorney General Scott Harshbarger;

            “The videos that have been released appear to have been edited, in some cases substantially, including the insertion of a substitute voiceover for significant portions of Mr. O’Keefe’s and Ms. Giles’s comments, which makes it difficult to determine the questions to which ACORN employees are responding. A comparison of the publicly available transcripts to the released videos confirms that large portions of the original video have been omitted from the released versions.”

            The same findings came in from every place the videos were made. It’s time to accept the fact that O’Keefe is nothing more than a lying little right wing shill.

          • DaveH

            Spin this one, Liberal:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s8w9GEpSzw

            Sure, I know, the Liberals will say she was an actress. O’Keefe was brazen enough to make this whole thing up, fake employees and all.
            So, Kinetic and the other Liberals want us to believe them, but we shouldn’t believe our eyes and ears.

          • DaveH

            Thank goodness for video. We can see the words coming right out of their mouths, so the Liberals can’t deny them:
            http://www.breitbart.tv/

            When Liberals try to convince you of their veracity, keep one thing in mind about them — These are people who can think of every excuse in the world to take your money. Do you really think they would have a problem with lying?

          • DaveH

            So, Kinetic considers the accusations of faked tapes to be “proof”. With Liars, you have to learn to read between the lines, as you aren’t going to get the facts from them. So, think about this, Acorn was receiving Billions of dollars from Government. Early last year they shut their doors. Does anybody really think an organization receiving Billions and then forced to shut down largely because of the various scandals including the so called “fake videos”, wouldn’t be sueing James O’Keefe’s buns off?
            Read this to learn more about ACORN:
            http://reason.org/news/printer/acorn-sin

          • DaveH

            Here’s another example of O’Keefe’s reporting. Look at the video on the Union Official Wayne Dibofsky. Interesting that the Liberals want us to believe James just made up all those videos of myriad ACORN offices, and other videos, but he is still walking around free doing his work. That’s what we have come to? A society where we can make up videos slandering other people with no repurcussions? I doubt it. More likely is that James is telling the truth, and the Liberals know their accusations wouldn’t hold up in a court of law. They must turn instead to their misinforming MSM to fight the truth:
            http://biggovernment.com/author/jokeefe/

          • Kinetic1

            Dave,
            First things first, ACORN had received $58 million between ’94 and ’09. The billions you speak of were potential dollars they might have received in 2010 and 2011. Next up, several of the ACORN offices did sue O’Keefe, Geiles and Breitbart, but after having to file chapter 7 bankruptcy they seem to have lost interest in following through. Employees are another story. I suppose when Congress responds knee jerk to a bunch of doctored tapes running on FOX and cuts off your funds, there’s not much left to pay attorneys.

            As for whether or not the tapes were doctored, it’s not just an accusation or a claim by ACORN, it was proved by government agents who saw both the broadcast tapes and the original raw footage. Was everything faked? Maybe not. The Women in San Bernardino says she didn’t buy their story and was making up outrageous things to punk them the way she felt she was being punked, but who knows? We know from the police that she never shot her husband, but I can’t say for a fact that she was not a madam at one time or another. The only thing we know for certain is that O’Keefe violated laws in several states, made outrageous claims and edited his tapes to create the results he wanted. In some cases, like San Bernadino it wasn’t too hard, but in San Diego they shot themselves in the foot. Sure, Carlos Vera seemed to be helpful, but A California Department of Justice investigation later determined the video had been intentionally edited to be misleading and found that Vera had called law enforcement after the meeting. Yep, he lead them on to gain information for the police. I don’t think FOX ever covered that. Vera is suing the couple for $75,000, the case is in court now, and Giles has thrown O’Keee under the bus, saying he was the one recording the video, so she shouldn’t be held responsible. What a couple of heros!

        • DaveH

          As usual, the Liberals enter a debate with fabricated facts, name-calling, condescension, and other forms of manipulation in lieu of factual arguments.

          • Carlucci

            Well, what else are they gonna do? Reminds me of “Interview with a Zombie” – the looney left libtards have the same canned answers to anything logical. http://www.dailypaul.com/138935/dr-tom-woods-interview-with-a-zombie

          • Curtis

            In this thread JeffH has called eddie47 “plain stupid” and he’s compared libertytrain’s IQ to a “roll of the dice”. By your definition that would make JeffH a liberal, but he seems to be on the right side of the fence to me. Could you clarify things for me? This is my first time here and I’m trying to figure things out. Thanks.

          • libertytrain

            Curtis, what a shame that you are burdened with a reading disability. It does appear your ability to comprehend the written word is impossible for you. I’m so sorry for you.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, not only does Curtis have a reading and comprehension disorder but he is also appears less than truthfull. I seem to remember a Curtis S who had very similar problems to what Curtis is experiencing now.

          • libertytrain

            - my instincts tell me that he is one of those silly leftists that has to be many different names and like someone else we knew to do that – has posts talking to each other to build each of their posts “credibility.” Kind of like “The Three Faces of Eve” or “Sybil” – in this case they all think alike so don’t have the multiple personality situation. They are sort of insecure.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, it ain’t just coincidence that they have a little background info that they can make personal and skew. It’s a lot like the liar who couldn’t remember what lie was told so he/she just kept telling lies. It’s not my fault they have bad memories.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          peter,
          show a link to that, or do you think you can drive by, put out your bull$hit and not be challenged on it??

      • bodenet

        You apparently are confused. The budget deficit is the problem and the problem is the union demands. There is no place for a union in the public sector in the first place…it was created by political fiat. How is it that the union can demand such outrageous benefits for ordinary work and cripple the economy without a crisis of conscience? How is it that the unions are so greedy and self serving and feel no shame?

        • DaveH

          Liberals don’t have consciences. They just want other peoples’ money.

          • bob wire

            shame on you! ~ I feel much the same way about that as when I had a Uncle I thought the world of, told me a black man had no soul.

            that just ain’t right!

          • get right

            No, daveh, the dems just want the money back from the corporations who are getting all those subsidies. You should be all for that too. It is taxpayer money that all those corporations are getting. But you want the elite corporations to have all our money don’t you?? Hypocritcal. Even the Cato Institute states that we should: eliminate the income tax loopholes carved out solely for specific companies, terminate programs that provide direct grants to businesses, eliminate programs that provide research and other services for industries, end programs that provide subsidized loans or insurance to businesses. They also stated that corporate welfare is anti-consumer, anti-capitalist and unconstitutional. Yet, you are still on the corporate side in all of your rantings. http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb105-9.html

          • DaveH

            As usual, Get Right uses a common Liberal technique of putting words in my mouth. I called Get Right on this very accusation (that I advocate subsidies for corporations) several days ago, so I can only assume he’s purposely spreading misinformation to make me look bad.
            In other words, you’re a liar, Get Right.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Get right,
            Perhaps you would be so kind as to point out what corporation the teachers, police, fire department, and government workers work for?? That is, of course, as if they really DID!!! get with the time!!

      • ValDM

        Actually, Chip did give us all the details. Go back and read the article again. pay particular attention to the middle paragraphs.

      • Freedom

        It simply doesn’t make sense to require additional contributions from these Union Mafia Members, while letting them keep all their bargaining power! That would be totally self-defeating, for Walker and the citizens of Madison. SURE, why wouldn’t unions love that deal!

        Besides, Unions have evolved into nothing but radical political machines! They are NOT gainins support for their cause when people see their aggressive, uncivilized behavior. They act more like animals defecating and eliminating in the people’s house of government… It is no longer about the “workers being treated fairly.” It is about the Unions thugs trying to CONTROL this country!

        • eddie47d

          There are plenty of Americans who wish they had a union to cover their back sides. There are plenty of Americans who wish they could get paid a decent wage. Now we have corporates who are making millions while their workers are scrambling for crumbs. This issue should strictly be about reducing the deficit; and are certain workers getting paid too much for the given budget. Unions have always recognized the give and take during negotiations so that is where Gov. Walker should have set this process in motion. He failed miserably on that count and lit the fuse for the discontent.When it comes down to the wire I hope the unions aren’t as obstinate as the Governor has been.

          • chow

            Again you are comparing private corporations to government. The private corporations use their own money to produce a product they sell for profit, and if you work for them you’re free to negotiate what’s your worth. If they get rich from the profit it’s their money and not the employees. The employee can always go work for another.

            In the government, they hire employees for no product or profit and they use taxpayers money. It’s the private corporations and their employee who pays for them (taxpayers). So if government employee demands more from the government they’re actually demanding from the taxpayer. So what I’m saying is for the government union demands should be voted by the taxpayer or they shouldn’t have unions.

          • DaveH

            You’re right Eddie — “There are plenty of Americans who wish they could get paid a decent wage.”
            They can’t because Union workers are sucking up the capital and driving companies out of our country.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Chow:

            That is the union mantra. The ee vil corporates. It’s known as class warfare and is what the communists thrive on. You will never get thru to them, even after the collapse.

            Chow! Er, ah adios. Er, aloha….

          • Freedom

            All the “Useful Idiots” want to talk about Corporations to justify the position of public employee unions! The reason for that is, THEY CANNOT SUPPORT the position of the unions on MERIT!

            The point has been made that public workers do not produce INCOME, they only suckle at the taxpayer trough! It takes at least three public employees to do the work that ONE private sector employee does! And the private sector employee does it better, for less. No employer would put up with your low-class, trashy, obnoxious, demanding attitudes. Public sector employees are acting like quasi-criminals extorting as much as they can get out of the rest of us. While your friends and comrades sh*t all over the State Capitol, showing their own total worth…Think again! Not only have union employees acted like animals, they have cost the State Seven Million in damages to the Capitol.. I think that Seven Million should be taken right off the top of ANY pay and benefits received by the offenders! People are beginning to wake up, and see what these radical, thugs, are all about. It isn’t pretty!

            Unions are about greed, extortion, and politically powerful union bosses that talk with the criminals in the White House, on a daily basis… And, that is why there is NO MERIT to the public employees’ demands.

          • eddie47d

            Freedom; You are barking like a mad dog. Go get you’re distemper shot.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Govenor Walker realizes, and has stated, that if they leave the “colective bargaining” in place for the benefits the unions will simply come back later and get the benefits put back in place. That would put everything right back where it is now.

        And the union knows this.

        Frankly I do not think the bill goes far enough as the unions should be eliminated. Period.

        • Jovianus

          So the unions would come back and have the benefits pt back just exactly how? By negotiating maybe? Ya think? So you’re against negotiation and for unilateral dictation of work conditions eh?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jo_ They shouldn’t be allowed to Unionize in the first place, they work for the GUV>>>>> on our dime.They got away with far longer than I would have left them!

          • barbm

            ever hear of a strike at mickey d’s, walmart, etc.? why should public employees get to negotiate? i want a raise, i go to my boss and tell him/her why i feel i deserve it. he/she says yes or no. if i’m worth it and the employer can afford it, i usually get it. why should people being paid with my tax dollars get the right to force somebody to give them a raise even if they aren’t worth it and the state can’t afford it? unions and their bosses belong in hell.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            barbm, You go girl!!!!! ;) My point exactly!!!

          • DaveH

            They can (and are) negotiating with the people who are paying their wages — the taxpayers in Wisconsin who are represented by Governor Walker.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            I am against the unions “negotiating” the ludicrous benefit packages back to where they currently set.

            There is not much negotiating when you have unions dealing with politicians they put in office who in turn are not dealing with their own money. The politicians are simply interested in pleasing the SEIU base and helping them to expand said base.

            Even the liberals god-like FDR was adamitly against public sector unions. George Meeney (sp?) in 1955 spoke out against public sector unions.

            Govenor Walker was left a financial house in ruins by deaces of political dodge ball. He was sent to Madison by the tas paying voters to fix the problem, and fix it once and for all. He is doing just that.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Barbm:

            You and I, and I suspect many or the “group” went thru the public school system in the 40s, 50s and to the mid 60s. Our teachers were not unionized. We received an education that is worlds ahead of what is passed off today as education under the unions and the Dept. of Education.

            I worked 32 years for a non-union employer. MY CHOICE. I, like yourself, would work HARD and if I felt I was deserving of a raise I went to the boss and made my case. I was able thru diligence, loyalty and hard work to advance from a small assembly operator thru the ranks to supervisor and finally working in the office prior to retiring.

            In unionism you lose your identity. No mater how hard you work you make no more than a slug who should be fired.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Old Henry, you got It!__born in 56 here.__Our teachers actually gave a damn and even called our parents, if we didn’t seem to be getting somehting in class._-The teachers weren’t striking either over every littl thing.–I’m a little sick of these people today who act as if they’re owed something for nothing._-They need to PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
            We all have to work, wether its for ourselves or someone else.
            Lifes tough, then ya die!_)__These idiot brats need to get over themselves!

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            AngelWB:

            I’m a little further back up the road from you, closer to Barbm. However, I know exacty what you are saying, and agree with it. I had a teacher in 4th grade who kept a hair brush in the top right=hand drawer. She displayed for us on the first day of school and explained what it was for. Never saw her use it, but she did bring it out and set it on the desk a few times! Makes me smile at the memory.

            My first jym class as a freshman in HS the teacher showed us his paddle. It had holes drilled in it. He “splained” to us that was to lessen wind resistance. I did see him use that one a few times. He was from TX! All of our phys ed teachers were WWII vets and took no prisoners, so to speak. And you know what? Most of us would have taken a bullet for any one of them.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Old Henry, I got cracked across the butt one day in English class, in front of the class, for not doing my homework for the second day in a row, then the teacher called my parents and when I got hopme, I got it again. The next day DID MY HOMEWORK AND THERE AFTER.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            AngelWB:

            Kinda brings new meaning to the saying turn the other cheek!

            In my freshman year of HS I had a Geography teacher who would catch students chewing gum and make them place it on the tip of their nose for the rest of the class. I remember one brunette in particular. She loved, ah, shug sweaters and nature had been, ah, good to her….. She got caught once or twice a week. In retrospect I wonder if she died her hair…

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Breaking News! do do do do do do:

          The Lbor Relations Board has just ordered the city of Orange, CT to re-enstate “dress down Friday, furnish free coffee and free milk at taxpayer expense for the city SEIU clerical workers.

          The city, read taxpayers, must also pay the SEIU legal fees!

          • barbm

            hey henry, isn’t that cute? our little wannabe is just a baby!! :) they actually taught us critical thinking back in the dark ages. now, all they want to do is teach them how to take a test. my boys went back to college and are making fab grades. their professors are loving having people who can think through a problem and find a solution. what the hell are they teaching in school these days? kids can’t add and subtract without a calculator. if they didn’t have a machine to tell them how much change to give back at the store, they’d never balance their drawers. and they can’t string 2 sentences together to make a paragraph. when i was in school, it took 3 pages to outline a sentence. modern english syntax, gosh i loved that class.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Barbm:

            Glad your boys are stepping up in life. Going back to screwel is tough. Yeah, I loved diagraming sentences in grade school. As a matter of fact I loved the subject of English and thought abut being an English teacher. (Cathy, I think, straightened me out on that small t vs big T tother day) Somewhere in Jr. High screwel I jumped the track scholastically, got thru HS and Jr. College and had enough. Do not regret it, however.

            As I told the group at my retirement party. Life is like a boat ride. As you go forward there are lots of bumps and waves that make you wonder…. However, later in the ride you look back over the stern and see “the waves” coming together and it all makes sense. I tell my kids they need to keep on keepin on and after a few years they will look back and it will indeed come together. My son, the ah, problem child is beginning to see what I was talking about.

      • RealAmerican

        I’m with you 100% as are the American people. Chip is an unAmerican extremist who hurls false accusations at the Wisconsin employees. The demonstations have been remarkably peaceful. The Democratic Senators are engaging in what amounts to a fillabuster, due to massive voter unhappiness with the governor.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Hey REAL:

          Time to fire up the Bunn and smell the coffee.

          ARe you aware they police have found 41 rounds of ammunition laying at the various entraances to the capitol?

          Have you seen the megaphone protesters? Have you seen the cross-hairs on the govenor’s picture?

          Are you aware that the “peaceful” protesters have done 7.5 million dollars of damage to the Capital Building? So far.

          ARe you aware these AWOL “legislators” were elected to do a job, and are being paid to do same?

          Are you aware that the STATE IF BROKE? There. Is. No. Money. It is time, as the democrats are want to continually say, share the sacrifice.

        • Patty

          Good, then the unions won’t mind ponying up the money to fix the damage the peaceful protestors did to the capitol building. Damage reports range from 350k to 7.5 million. http://sweetness-light.com/archive/damage-to-wi-capitol-could-cost-7-5m
          Writing F Walker in magic marker on marble reminds me of unruly children with crayolas.

      • JUKEBOX

        How’s this for an anti Semitic rant: “GIVE THEM THE SAME BARGAINING RIGHTS THAT ARE ENJOYED BY FEDERAL WORKERS, AND SUPPORTED BY BARAK OBAMA”.

      • Andy Miller

        Kenetic1 you are so kinetic you didn’t read or comprehend what you read!
        You made it look as if Chip didn’t cover collective bargaining your statement (but want to keep the right to bargain. Why didn’t you mention that, Chip?)
        If you will read it again you will find he did state
        Three, that government unions no longer be allowed to use collective bargaining to argue for pensions and other benefits. In this context, “collective bargaining” means “I ain’t gonna do what you want. And I’ll bust the skull of anyone else you hire to do it.”

        They have the right to pay there union dues and be a part of collective bargaining giving them more rights than you do to others now you say if you want to work you will have to pay union dues.

        Also I would like for you to explain to me why any public employee, president down has a right to earn more money than the average income of the people he serves and pay his paycheck!!!

        • Kinetic1

          Andy,
          What is it with the people on this site? My sentence read

          “who, by the way are willing to accept the pay cuts, retirement sharing, etc. but want to keep the right to bargain. Why didn’t you mention that, Chip?”

          Note that the sentence began with the fact that the teachers were willing to accept the pay cuts and increased donation to their pension (which, by the way is redundant since they already pay 100% of their own pension). Yes, Chip addressed the issue of collective bargaining, but failed to note that the teachers were willing to accept everything else. That was my point, but many of you have focused only on the last few words. If what Gov. Walker says is true, and this is all about the budget short falls, than the pay cuts are what is important, but you folks seem to be willing to parse people’s thoughts to fit your own agendas.

          Now, why should a government employee earn more than the average tax payer? Have you ever heard of comparing apples and oranges? What is the education level of the Average working American? The avg. plumber with 2 years or less experience earns about $40,000. That can easily jump another $15,000 with more experience. A patrolman is expected to earn about the same amount as an experienced plumber. The plumber’s work can be messy and smelly, the patrolman may be putting his life on the line. Is it fair that they earn about the same amount?

          Asking why a “government worker” should earn more than the average American is like asking why a doctor should earn more than his average patient. One has nothing to do with the other. We pay workers based on their qualifications and studies show that government workers are, on average more experienced and have a higher level of education than those in the private sector. Given that fact, some researchers would assert that government workers are somewhat underpaid, even after benefits are considered. A better question might be, does our government need to hire skilled workers, or could we get by with less experienced, lower paid individuals?

      • Vieteravet

        They can still bargain for pay. Why can’t they accept federal law like federal employyes?

      • Robert Smith

        Let me see if I have this straight…

        The Democrats have left to game the system so very unfortunate legislation where folks are forced to give up their collective rights will be taken away.

        On the other hand it’s OK when Republicans on the National level game the system by threatening to fillibuster to stop Obama’s legislation that they consider bad.

        Guess it’s OK for the right to game the system but when the left tries it to protect people it suddenly is bad.

        That’s what it looks like from here.

        Rob

      • Chris

        Lol, great debate. Only thing that needs to happen here is to fire all the AWOL Dem’s and erase every union on the face of the earth, then us real people can work and our natural gas pipelines won’t blow up and hurt people. Union workers can’t work their way out of a paper bag.

    • wandamurline

      Eight years ago in Texas, we had the same thing happen…not for unions as we are a right to work state…hallejuah…but for something else they were just not going to let happen. They hid out for over a month with the taxpayers having to pick up the bill. Guess what, as each of their tenures came up for re-election…they are now all gone…even the one from my district…14 years implanted in the congress…no one was going to win over him….but the tea parties hit the ground and worked tirelessly…we now have a new congressman from my district…a young American of African descent and a teacher of the constitution representing us…oh yes, he is a conservative Republican. So, in the end, these Senators will get the same ousting…just wait and see.

      • Firefly

        Let us hope so! The taxpayers have been hit hard enough by all these “the government owes us a living” types! We broke away from England because of unjust taxes, and we got by fine until the Democrats passed the first modern peace time income tax in 1894, the Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act, and then less than a hundred years ago Democratic President Woodrow Wilson and the Congress snuck in the first permanent Progressive income tax in 1913 with the inauguration of the Federal Reserve Bank. The Progressive income tax was a poster child of Karl Mark, the promoter of free love, anti-marriage, and Communism. Sadly these progressives believe we should all be equal with no one having anymore than anyone else, except the chosen elite. Out of the millions in the old Soviet Union there were about 200,000 who had the fine summer apartments on the black sea and who were supported by the population. The elitists in this country think that is just about right but there are already about 11,000,000 unionists who have all the gravy from the taxpayer gravy train.

        These ‘progressives’ or “socialists” or “unionists” will not be satisfied until they have topped the United States government, the Constitution, and most of all the economy. They are not all evil, just greedy and grossly misinformed people, but if they do evil, then they must be replaced, voted out of office and banished. Let’s send them home to their over-inflated pensions. We have enough gadflies in the country today. What we need is more true Americans who care about the country and don’t want to see our children and grandchildren impoverished as they truly will be under more ‘progressive’ government, higher taxes, and the coming great inflation. I have read on this site that there are informed individuals who believe that this is already inevitable, based on all that the Congress has wasted in times past. I certainly hope they are wrong because this can only lead to terrible suffering right here in the United States and chaos throughout the world. It will be interesting to see if most Americans agree with what is being done to them.

        • RealAmerican

          The first income tax passed was the revenue act of 1861 passed on incomes over $800 dollars to help pay off civil war debt. The Puritans set up and ran free public schools through paid for by taxes, so public school teachers have a long & proud history in this country. Your extremist views and angry language only show how confused & brainwashed you are.
          The real elite in this country are people like the Koch brothers. Right now the top 1% in this country owns 90% of stocks & bonds in this country and receive 20% of our national income every year. This kind of money/power imbalance is destroying our republic and turning us into a tyranny of the rich.

          I am so tired or reading hysterical angry rants like yours. America is a great country and I am really grateful to live in a country where we have professional teachers, firefighters and police who provide outstanding public service. Yay America!

          We need to return to the policies we had post world war 2 that built a strong middle class: reasonable union laws, top notch education and a belief in our can-do ability.

          • DaveH

            You’re right, American. We need to return to the 1950s when Government spent only 20% of the GDP instead of the 40% it now spends.

      • JUKEBOX

        I think these Union protesters should be charged the $7.5 million cost of damage done to the Wisconsin Capitol building. It is not “FAIR” for taxpayers to have to pay for another of their destructive actions.

        • Kinetic1

          JUKEBOX,
          Take a hard look at those reports and you’ll see that the state cannot produce evidence, or even examples of how they reached those figures for damage to the building. First person accounts admit to a damaged door and a few paper towel holders, but claims of damage relate mostly to soiled carpets (most likely food and drink) and the adhesive from tape on the marble walls. When the protesters were made aware of the potential for damage from scotch tape on marble, they switched to a less adhesive blue painter’s tape.

          So, will it really cost 7.5 million dollars to fix a door and clean carpets and marble? What do they usually spend on cleaning? I’ll be interested to see.

      • barbm

        from your mouth to God’s ear!!

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Barbm:

          Ya spose there will be a whole lot less posting after the weather gets nice? We can then all get a life. HA!

          Now they’re singing: i hear voices all the time…. That has become my tougne-in-cheek theme song.

          • barbm

            nah, it’s in the 70s and 80s here, yet here i sit. i’m old, i can only do so much yard work. am afraid i might break something if i try to do anything too physical and no money to do too much. i used to snow ski. i shoot hoops with my youngest when we do holidays at his house. i don’t have a hoop or a ball – for a reason. :) i rescue feral cats and just about any other critter that comes along. that’s enough work for me. i have 2 colonies of about a dozen in each and growing daily.

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      Insurgent:

      That is a facinating link. However, it is clouded in my mind by Duke’s Nazi links as reported in the “media” a few years ago.

      Hwever, facts are facts. Having grown up on ganster movies I always wondered about the Jewish sounding names of some of the participants, Lanski being the most prominent.

      Thank you for posting the link.

      • JUKEBOX

        There were Jewish and Irish soldiers in the Mafia, and Meyer Lansky was just one.

    • Dominick Mondi

      In your dreames, David

      From a “maligned” Italian

  • DaveH

    We the people, who are footing the bill, have become modern day slaves to the vocal and violent minority who proclaim the “right” to ride on our backs.
    The modern day slave masters are the Unionists, Government Employees, and Politicians. Voluntary contracts are being relagated to the dust bin. We need to get our country back on track, where consumers determine which products suit them best, where property rights are sacred, and where people make voluntary decisions about who they share their money with. That means putting Government back into their traditional role of protecting us from force by others and little else. They should definitely not be able to protect us from ourselves. They should definitely not be able to give our money away to others (it’s not their money to give).
    Free Markets result in more productive people who get to keep more of their own hard-earned money, and businesses who strive to politely service their voluntary customers. Think, for instance, about your past treatment by Government Agencies (such as DMV), as opposed to those service providers in the private sector. We need to get Government out of the Marketplace with the exception of enforcement of Fraud Laws. And even in that area, all the convoluted court wranglings are not nearly as effective against Fraudulent companies compared to losing their customer base.

    For these steps toward regaining our Freedom, and many more, Vote Libertarian:
    http://libertarianparty.org/platform

    • Patty

      As in the mantra of the liberals, “It is time to level the playing field.” Only this time it is between public workers and the private sector who foot the bill. Otherwise, we may just take our tax dollars and go home. How long would you last if the private sector withheld their property taxes until you showed up. Belly up to the bar liberals. Stop running and hiding.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Hear, hear!!! Patty

      • Firefly

        You ask “How long would you (they) last if the private sector withheld their property taxes?” I have read that there are some top experts that are predicting that past government spending is going to cause such inflation in the future that that is exactly what is going to happen, a massive tax revolt. This hasn’t happened in this country since the Boston Tea Party of 1773 but some are predicting that it is going to happen again, when Americans truly get fed up with all the waste, corruption and cronyism.

        • RealAmerican

          The Boston Tea Party was an attack against a tax break granted by parlaiment to East India Company. I think you are confusing the tea party with the stamp act protests, which weren’t about taxation per se but about representation. In fact, after the revolution, there were numerous protests by poor Americans who used the rallying cry of “no taxation without representation” to demand more rights. You have to remember a lot of states set the property ownership levels very high, disenfranchising a lot of Americans.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Firefly:

          Why do you think Der Fuhrer is putting things in place to control the populace? Things such as the internet kill switch. That will help id defusing coordination of activities.

          Remember the Civil Defense Force he let slip during the campaign? As strong as, as funded as, as large as, the military.

          He is well aware of the rage his policies will create and he is furiously setting things up behind the scenes. Remember, he has a White House FULL of communist czars who answer to NO ONE but him.

          • get right

            Old henry, you are a real idiot, if you think Obama will be in control. Do you really think the Koch brothers who are billionaires many times over will allow him to have control? Get real and use that brain. Stop being blind and just think about it. The mega rich in this country will hold all the cards, not a lowly half black, half white, (not rich) ex president. Get a gripe and use some logic.

          • DaveH

            No, Get Right, it is you who are the idiot. You argue for Liberal agendas which involve growing government ever larger which gives the politically connected, who you claim to dislike, even more power.
            As Government Grows, Corruption Flows.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            GetRight:

            I did not say Barry would be in charge. I said he had no intention of leaving the White House. He will no more be in charge then than he is now. Look around smell the coffie and wise up.

            Soros put him in the People’s House for a reason. Obama is not smart enough to be “in charge”. He cannot even speak to a group of 6th graders w/o his teleprompter.

            The Koch bors maintain too much of a high profile. Soros, like a cockroach, stays in the shadows, which is what the Jewish mafia did according to Insurgent and Duke.

          • JeffH

            Old Henry, and you probably noticed the unprovoked name calling in eyes(get right)comment.

        • DaveH

          Firefly, I appreciate your sentiment, but the truth is that the Government doesn’t need our tax money. They can (and do) just get the Federal Reserve to buy their debt with newly created dollars. So, even if we could get the employers and the marketplaces to go along with us to withhold taxes, it would be to no avail.
          Our only course of action is to get back control of the educational system to stop the propagandization of our children, and to spread the word amongst our friends and family and get those rascals out of office replacing them with Constitutional-abiding politicians.

      • Laurel

        Now here is the best idea I’ve read here so far. The value of our home keeps dropping while the taxes levied on it keep rising. That makes me really like this idea!

        • JUKEBOX

          That is why you have to ask your assessor to reappraise your property. You do have a right to demand this.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            JUKE:

            The assessors in general are smart enough to keep their figures a little below whay most houses would sell for. If you demand a reassessment they will demand to walk thru your house. Any improvements you have made over time that no one knows about will become evidenced in the walk-thru. YOu amy acutally end up owing more.

            The best thing to do is hire an independent assessor and pay the fee. If it comes in in your favor you protest. If it comes in not in your favor, you keep quiet.

          • DaveH

            Jukebox,
            There is the appraisal value and the tax rate on that appraisal value (set by the taxing authorities). So even if your appraisal value went down dramatically, they can just raise the tax rate to make up for that. Your decreasing appraisal value would only be beneficial if your decreased value was an unusual case. Not likely in this general housing price decline.
            We were informed recently (by our county treasurer) that lower appraisal prices should not lead us to expect lower taxes. She said if we don’t like the taxes we should show up at the public meetings of the taxing authorities and protest.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Patty:

        Good thought. However, how long would it be before the sheriff showed up with an eviction notice if you withheld your property taxes?

        The SEIU’s crony politicians have us at the point of a gun. These SEIU goons see the tsunami coming and are really scrambling. Are we too late in making the splash that started the wave? Time will tell.

        • Patty

          Would be a while. How many can/will withhold? Too many for them to round up. Where are they going to put us? The jails are filled. We can’t leave it up to politicians, they play both sides against the middle (us). We can do it legal and put the property taxes in a trust until we get the action we and this country need. We need to flip the tables and hold them hostage instead of the other way around. We all know that it is to follow the money and there lies the power. Let’s recup our power.

          • Patty

            Foreclosures are taking over a year. Would be a while. They are a little busy right know with all of the other people who can’t pay their mortgage. You would still pay your mortgage. Just withhold the taxes. Start a class action suit against them. How long have we had taxation without representation with the gov’t. employee unions representing them? Who is representing us? No one. You want bargaining rights? Put a taxpayer at that table!

    • Firefly

      Hear, hear! Libertarians could surely do no worse than the current two parties that are really one party have been doing.

      • barbm

        the msm will NEVER allow a 3rd party to enter the fray. it’s the media that chose obamanation by pushing him on us and by choosing the rino mccain to run against him. he didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hades of beating obama, but paul did. they wouldn’t give him any free coverage like they did for those who didn’t get anywhere near as many votes as paul did, they made fun of him, took his comments out of context, cut him off and/or wouldn’t call on him at debates. i was at the polls waving a ron paul sign, and you just wouldn’t believe how many people asked me who he is. we need to get a handle on the media. i refuse to buy the local leftist rag here in san antonio and yell at them when they approach me at stores to try to sell me a subscription.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Barbm:

          Your statemant amplifies exactly how BRAIN DEAD our elcetorate has become. Some (most?) people are just too f***ing stupid to be allowed to vote.

          And remember: Stupid is forever. Ignorance can be fixed.

          • barbm

            i’m pretty sure a large portion of those people know who he is now and are paying a bit more attention to what’s going on in d.c..

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Barbm:

            I pray that you are correct, but after watching what the electorate has done over many years, with 2008 being the pinacle, I will remain very skepticle. Not without hope, just skepticle.

            70s and 80s huh? Wanna rent out yer garage?

          • Dominick Mondi

            OH,

            Unfortunately, you have hit the bullseye with this observance.
            The Lord must love stupid people, He made so many of them.

        • DaveH

          In the end, Barb, the MSM has no real power over those who think and educate themselves. The truth is that very few people know what the Libertarian Party stands for, and why their Principles would work. Those of us who do need to educate as many of our Acquaintances as possible. It’s pretty simple for those who are on the Internet, as you can just steer them to the lp.org website where they can learn all they want. And for Libertarian commentary and analysis, there are at least 3 good websites that I know — Mises.org, Cato.org, and Reason.org .
          Also steer them to Fox Business News where they can listen to two staunch Libertarians — John Stossel and Judge Napolitano. Thank you Rupert Murdoch for giving your viewers a chance to see our side of the issues.

          • barbm

            i voted for paul in 2008 in the primary. i voted for baldwin of the constitution party in the general. i didn’t care for the libertarian candidate.

        • Patty

          We don’t need the mainstream media. We are Americans. If Egypt can overthrow the status quo, what makes you think we can’t?

  • http://! Angel Wannabe

    GOOD Article!!!_Our Dear President is good at attacking Governors, Bambi’s been attacking, Arizona Guv Jan Brewer for some time now, over securing the borders. Walker was bound to be next, the big bad ole meany. Trying to destroy a way of life of the Wisconsin teachers!
    “Bone up Teach, it’s gonna get worse before it gets better!
    The 14 Toddlers who’ve been whooping it up at an Illinois Resort,to avoid a vote.__Hey” The crying towel is bloated, wah wah wah”, if we don’t get out way we’ll take our dollies and go home”___Bunch of Wusses!
    BTW, this “IS” going to snowball, Christie did it in Jersey and Now Walker In Wisconsin, the other States are watching, and that’s why the Union’s been busing people in, in support_-THEY ARE SCARED SHYTLESS!
    “Hey Teach, Welcome to the REAL WORLD”!

    • spitfire

      Everyone, homeschool for one year!! That should give the goverment plenty of extra cash. LOL

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        spitfire, we should all do what Patty said, and withhold our taxes, and then we’d see how that all works out for them!

        • Patty

          It wouldn’t really be that hard to do at a state level. One of the reasons they can’t make ends meet is because so many homes are in foreclosure in MN. That has already dented them. There are several other people that I know that are paying their mortgage, but have not paid their property taxes since last year. They don’t have enough money and are on the verge of bankruptcy. The only problem is that most people wrap their taxes in with their mortgage. PITI. Another way the gov’t. uses others as their collection vehicle. But it can be done. Lots of people have small business’ and they can withhold their sales tax. At least WI has a govoner with some bells. We have Dayton who looks worse than Bush did with deer headlights syndrom, who’s father knew he didn’t have the bells to run Dayton Corp and sold it. Put his little inheritance in S. Dakota (no state taxes)and offshore in tax shelters.

      • s c

        Right on, spitfire! Odds are that any kid who’s homeschooled will learn more in six months than they’ll learn in any given year in a public school.
        Now is the time to ram all of that anti-American, teacher union crap down THEIR throats.
        Homeschool! Send your kids to a private school or a church school. Teacher unions have to learn the hard, unemployed way. Talk about TRUE SOCIAL JUSTICE!

        • http://personalliberty.com rchick

          I have to disagree with you! I homeschooled my kids for three years, and not once did I teach them how to use a condom! I did, however, teach them the virtues of staying pure and how much trouble teenage sex causes. Now that they are in public school, so far that lesson has been upheld in their lives.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Good for you rchick!!!

        • karolyn

          And at about all those kids with uneducated parents who can’t afford private or parochial school?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            karolyn, where do you Libs get off thinking, that everything and everyone can be fixed. People gotta get off they’re duffs and go do what they have to do__But NO the Liberals have created a “do it For Me Society”___ You libs crack me the hell up, your try to fix, whats not broken___example-> the healthcare system, it needs reform, not taken over! The borders__ where day after day the farmers down there are getting run off and murdered on they’re own properties, by the drug cartels. The price of oil is going up, and to my knowledge, I don’t see ANY NEW DRILLING going in America! You and your comie leaders are more interested in a NWO, when ya can’t even Handle America!!!!!!
            nuff said

      • Lastmanstanding

        Especially if you live in New York…yesterday, Glenn Beck’s show provided more DOCUMENTED PROOF to homeschool. I know progs will have a problem with it, but you useful idiots will never get it.

        If you think for one moment that utopia is just around the corner…THINK AGAIN!

      • Laurel

        Another great idea! We’ve been homeschooling for nearly 28 years (big spread out family). I have often imagined what I could do in our home school if we could receive even 1% of what is given to public education per student. I have begun tutoring other students for the last five years (for little or no pay, I might add, but out of true passion for educating young people), and I have more work than I can handle. A growing number of families are choosing what I can provide with no money from the state over what is offered in the public sector.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Laurel, That’s terrific!!

        • http://Verizon Bud G.

          Laurel: My daughter has home schooled both her daughters here in Florida and the 14 year old is already taking college level classes. The 12 year old has a slight learning disability but both have better grades when tested with their peers.

          I am not going to argue about whether the unions or the Governor in Wisconsin are right or wrong. It is the students in the classroom it seems who are not receiving the education they deserve. Whether that is the union’s fault is a question but there seems to be more of a problem regarding education coming out of the Department of Education in Washington, D.C..

          • Jovianus

            My guess is, after trying to get into a decent college, those kids will have a career where they can hear me say “Supersize that order please”

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jo, on the attack I see, nothing else to offer, huh?__Typical Liberal Rant!!_-You may a s well go home honey, we’ve had enough of ingnorant Liberal Policies, and were not into Marxism__Chow!

          • get right

            Jov, this is a ploy to get women to quit their jobs and stay home to home school. Of course women have to work, as the men in this country have totally tanked it, run it into a ditch and women had to go to work. They also are killing birth control access to force women to get pregant and produce white babies to compete with all those Hispanics who are gaining in the population. They still haven’t figured out even after number crunching,,, it is impossible for the whites to catch up now. Look out here comes the right, who will take away every right women have worked for. Next on agenda will be repealing the law last year that just gave us equal pay. If republican women want to accept less pay for doing the same job as a man, fine…but leave the rest of us alone.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Get Right:

            I guess it’s time to play Cowboys and Mexicans…

        • RealAmerican

          Where I live 1% of what is capitated to students is about $50. I’m sure you take your homeschooled kids to public facilities like swimming pools and parks. Do they participate in any sports that receive public aid, like playing on publicly maintained fields at schools or parks? My kids do.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Laurel:

          Home schooling is good, but the government will eventually come after home schoolers. They loose control of the kids with home schoolers. Illinois has legislation floating around that will give truancy officers power to come into home schoolers houses and demand to know what / how you are teaching your kids. It was in the news. So far the bill has been put on the back burnere, but it is out there.

          • Laurel

            We still have a fairly homeschool-friendly environment here in MI; the legislators all know what happens at the capital every time they try to touch private and home education. Most of us here in this state have great documentation of success in our home programs. Many of my kids’ friends have ended up at Hillsdale and other great colleges. My eldest got all A’s in his college coursework, and though he never completed his degree, he is working with handicapped adults transitioning them out of institutions and into more normalized living, a very rewarding career. My next son got a four year scholarship to college in FL and he is now working for a film production company in Los Angeles. No burger flipping, as the naysayer above implied!!

      • JUKEBOX

        They would just bus the students in from some other country.

  • Leonard

    As far as i am concerned the senators are suppose to be working for the people’s interest not their own and if they do not work for the people put them inder lock and key , take away their jobs, homes and any retirement that they get from their jobs Senators do your jobs or loose every thing you have and would have in the future We need to contol spending no matter where it is and the poor get poorer while the rich get richer and that is why the poor are getting poorer If you can’t do your jobs quit before you do loose yours I used to belong to a union but then I found out they were for themselves not for the people they represent Unions might have been good back 60 or 70 years ago but they are a bunch of gready bastards now . get back to work of loose every thing you ever had you bunch of lazy good for nothing bastards you and Obummer would love to see this country go to hell what a shame we have people like you and him representing us I hope you all will never get another term in office This is why the democrats are failing and you show it all Hopefully in the near future maybe we will have only one party to contend with and it would not be the democratic one ever state is trying to reduce spending so do your jobs get of your ignorant asses and go to work or go to jail

    • RealAmerican

      All of these people are supposed to be working for the Public interest which is why Walker’s bill is so unpopular. He’s cutting taxes on the wealthiest, paying for it by reneging on teachers’ contracts and cheap selling public utilities to private business interests. He’s a terrible governor who is clearly suborning public funds. That’s why there are so many protestors and the whole state is against him.

    • Dominick Mondi

      Leonard,
      I’m a registered Republican so I feel qualified to say this. A one pary system with any name is a disaser. “Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The basic problem is the Dems have been taken over by lefties and commies and the Republicans are in danger of being taken over by the extreme right. Hopefully, those in the middle that think for themselve have been aqwakened from their slumber by the crap that’s happening.

      • smilee

        The far right has already taken over the republican party its past the danger point. MN republican party publicly threw out all the moderates, former republican governors, republican senators and big wig republicans for over fifty years got the boot from these far right radicals. I do not recall democrats every given anyone the boot.

  • PRIVATE SECTOR

    YOU forget at one time we had a close market if you think of it .But thank to NAFTA and BILL CLINTON and the chinese , what do you think was go to happen ,remeber a great sucking sound .WE the pivate sector can not pay for all the part time workers with full plus pay

    • spitfire

      I remember how good it was with closed market. Now look at the mess we have!

    • Bob

      The closed market is what led to the mess we are in today. Back then unions got everything they wanted because lazy, incopmpetant, gutless businessmen knew they could just pass the cost on to consumers. Eventually, worker drones in union industries were getting what executives would get in other industries and those of us whose wages were in line with reality were falling behind. That is why imports became so popular. America needs to quit longing for the good old days and get off its ass and get to work. The first thing we need to do is slash government to the bone and the second is to get rid of union parasites.

      • Disgusted

        Bullseye Bob! Union labor became so overpaid that the products produced cost too much for the average american to afford. In came the cheap exports! We should be making 90% of our products here in the states, but since the labor in China is so much cheaper these companies close down their US plants and begin production in China. High labor costs have driven jobs out of this country! We need to get back in line with not only pay but the cost of products.

        I think Governor Walker is doing the right thing, as a matter of fact he is doing exactly what if voted him into office to do.

        What really makes me angry is seeing the picket signs that say Walker = Hilter. Are you kidding me? Are these school teachers that are picketing with these signs? If so I am very afraid for our children, if our teachers think this is in any way related to what Hitler did I don’t want them teaching my child.

        • JUKEBOX

          I am glad that people are starting to realize how business passes higher costs on to the consumer. Guess what? Higher taxes are just another one of those higher costs, and the consumer is paying that cost.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            JUKEBOX:

            I am glad you mentioned this. We have been bombarded by the libs and their cronies in the media for longer than I care to remember that the rich businesses must pay their share of taxes to support the libs socialist agenda. For too long the idiot populace in this country cheered them on.

            Sow the wind. Reap the whirlwind.

      • get right

        Bob, if the corporations didn’t have so much power and are the reason that unions exist, we wouldn’t have these problems. By the way that 40hour work week that you enjoy is a result of union bargining. Same goes for paid vacations, two breaks during 8 hour period, minimum wages, saftey in the workplace, child labor laws, workers compensation when you do get hurt, unemployment wages, anti-discrimination laws, pension plans, and documentated job discriptions. So when you go to work and take that 10minute break, thank the Unions!!! You should go to your employer and tell them that you don’t want a vacation, or breaks, or a guarranteed wage, you are willing to just take what they give you… then you can complain about those horrible unions.

  • Polski

    First, 8 years of Dubya/Cheney, and now, daily BS. Well, you have to hand it to the republicans, they certainly are NOT creative. What’s this I hear that the Governor is going to be paid $1 a year. Well, you have to consider inflation.

    • Norm

      Still bashing Bush Get over it the present president can not seem to wipe his ass without asking the unions MY I?
      The oil spill would have been a lot less if we would have let the “real pro’s” help clean it up OH wait that would have meant the UNIONS would have not gotten there filthy hands in the till. The test scores of our Children have been falling since the UNIONS got control we now have the most expensive non performing education system in the world.
      Every thing UNIONS touch becomes corrupt just like this batch of idiots in the the present government.

      • JUKEBOX

        That’s probably why Richard Trumka and Andy Stern are in the White House every day. They have to pass out ass wiping booklets out to all of Obama’s myrmidons, who don’t have a clue about anything, Union printed of course.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          I heard a rumor that Der Fuhrer has made a deal with one of the toilet paper manufacturers to provide him with TP that has the constitution printed on it.

          I have not heard if the manufacturer is union or not.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      OMG!__It’s Bushes fault, Its all Bushes fault, You liberals don’t have anything left to agrue with, so ya go back to the ole tried and true , ITS ALL BUSFES FAULT__Pipe down already with it.

      • Jovianus

        Shoot Angel…if you would think about it…we will suffer greatly for years because of the the Bush admin. And you supported it. You don’t like to have it thrown in your face? too bad…we have to pay for it. You get to admit you were part of the cause.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Just like I said Jo, you’ve nothing else to add, so ya keep bringing up Bush,___ and while I’m at it, I’ll tell ya something else,_ I’d rather admit voting for Bush, than the Marxist B*stard thats in there now, so bring it on brother!

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Shoot Angel?

            Maybe we know where those 41 rounds of ammunition found at the various entrances to the Capital Building came from…..

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Old Henry__ thats a thought!?

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          JO… As soon as Barry is no longer living in the White House, is when you are really going to hear who is to blame! Wait for it!

          • JeffH

            Robin, you’re so mean…LOL!

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Robin:

            Do you REALLY think Little Barry is going to leave the White House??

            The constitution you say? We don’t need no stinking constitution….

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          And the alternatives were…..

          Albore the gobal warming scammer who, I think, was born 9 months after Roswell.

          Then we had John effing Kerry who made his money the old fashioned way. He married it. Oh, he also served in Viet Nam and in Camobdia under Nixon in 1968.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Jovi:

          Shoot Angel? Better check Der Fuhrer’s memo on Civility.

          Oh, by the way. Albore WOULD have been president outright if had been able to carry his HOME STATE OF TN. He would not have needed FL.

          Guess those Tennesseeans knew something the rest of the country did not.

      • RoBoTech

        They know that “lil’ Bush did it first” is failing, and tried to PaliniZe Palin. That is getting old. too.
        But dey still have the Bush and Palin boogeymans udder dey beds and dey moooooommies can’t help them when they scream out at night.
        Personally, I hope these Liberals keep blaming Bush/Palin. It shows what buffoons they are.
        Crying Wolf comes to mind.
        And for you JoJo, I put money and time resources into impeaching Bush. It was YOUR Speaker of the House, Piglosi that took it off the table, so hearing Socialist whining about Bush is hilarious when there was enough support to impeach him in Jan 2007, and the PROGRESSIVES said NO!
        I always wondered why until that blame Bush was a big part of why the Lying Socialist Obama was elected. Smooth move, but it won’t work again. I promise you that.

    • JC

      Typically “Polski”. DON’T pay attention to the issues at hand…just blame an administration that is no longer around and justify communism because the previous administration was dirty.
      Sorry, my Socialist little friend…but two wrongs don’t make a right.

      • Carlucci

        That’s right – ! Demoncraps and rinos are wrong, wrong, wrong for this nation. Vote Libertarian.

    • lkar

      What people don’t seem to get is that the democratic republic is working (at least until the 14 Democrats thought they were royality for the liberals)! The voters in WI voted for these congressional representatives and the governor. These representatives have the priviledge of bringing bills up for votes. The fact that 14 Democrats have fled their elected responsibility is treasonal. If the people of WI do not like the laws passed, vote them out on the next election cycle. I think that is what happened in 2010! The people don’t like the liberal BS.
      Liberals and progressives seem hell bent on everyone’s “right” and democracy for all. But when it is not in their favor, they turn to hyperbole and name calling (usually dropping some line about racism). If that does not work they use anarchy. What’s next?

    • barbm

      when that muslim shot all those people at fort hood, bush jumped in his car and drove there immediately even though he was no longer the potus. he refused to meet with the press going, instead, straight to the wounded and the families of the dead. obama flew in with his entourage 2 days later and spent a good bit of time with the media. a class act and a classless one. don’t compare bush to that idiot in our white house now. there just is no comparison. and don’t try blaming everything on bush or his dad. this current crisis is the fault of all politicians who ran us into the ground for decades. it’s also our fault for letting it happen on our watch.

  • PRIVATE SECTOR

    DAVE H THANK YOU .
    BUT YOU LET OUT THIS LOOK UP (366 BILLION OUTRAGE )
    it is about calif. fortune magazine .everyone new it was coming

  • Bill L.

    All this arguing and fact based comparisons for one side or the other are interesting but leave out the fact that the ‘Market’ will correct itself. The ‘Market’ here being the amount of money a taxpayer can pay to support the public sector. This revenue stream will continue to dwindle and the public sector will eventually cave under this stress. The losing side will eventually be the unions. It is merely common sense.

    • http://personalliberty.com BillyD

      Your common sense assumption is not correct – UNLESS the Governor’s proposal is implemented. If it continues as in the past, the people will be the big losers as the unions will continue to inflate the system and the paid “CORRUPT” politicians will continue to support them. The “Market” is a competitive based system. With the unions (excuse me for using foul language), there is no competition nor will there be as long as they are allowed to exist in the present form (or the new-improved form our socialist party is trying to implement with the news laws on voting for workers).

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      Bill L,

      The problem with this particual “market” is that it is not a free market. The govermnent can just keep taking via confiscatory taxes going higher and higher. The taxpayer has no choisce on paying up.

      In the private free market the public simply does not buy, or buys another product.

      The SEIU and their politicians have the tax payers at the end of a gun.

  • concerned grandma

    Governor Walker is a great American and real leader. The WI state house members in attendance are showing responsible leadership by drafting legislation to not allow the special interests of 12% dictate to the remaining 88% how much money they must provide to finance union candidates, substantial pensions for others, etc. It is an incestuous relationship and puts private sector employees at a distinct disadvantage. The private sector employee cannot take money from others and vote for their own raises. As we have seen in the last few weeks, the union thugs are experts at unsavory tactics to win at any cost. The Governor and Senators should stand firm. The current debt is unsustainable. The Flee-baggers should put on ‘big boy’ pants and put America’s fiscal house in order.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      concerned grandma… I couldn’t agree more or have said it better! You go girl!

  • http://Safari John Flath

    Hey Chip,
    What a great neo-con you are.
    You are such a liar, it makes me sick. I have no love for these teahers neither, but they are willing to give up money and benefits.
    How about this scumbag governor doing the same?
    You know what bothers me the worst? Our government just spent over 10 billion dollars moving our fleet over to Libia and they said to save the people there. This is disgusting. Why not take that money and help our states balance their budgets. We live in florida, the slave state. They torture and brutilize workers here and very low pay. The woman who work in this state are being so tortured, it is unreal.
    there is no doubt in my mind that internal war is coming to the US. America is no more and it will be destroyed soon.
    I also believe that the wrath of god will come upon this nation and its people for all of the horrible crimes they have committed against the people of this world. We live now in one of the most evil and diabolic nation on earth, where people have sold their souls for their jobs and money.
    God help us.

    • JC

      Wow!…bringing on the “crazy” extra heavy this morning aren’t ya?
      In what way are these workers being tortured? Are they being stretched on a rack? Finger nails pulled?
      Are they even here legally? Would they be happier wherever they are from? Do they have the choice to move to a more torture free state?

      I hear Montana only tortures their workforce once or twice a week. :)

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Yeah I thought that too JC, They all musta changed shifts, it is payday ya know?! ;)

      • JeffH

        JC, you just made my morning…I’m still laughing!

        • JC

          I couldn’t resist… ;)

    • Bob

      I am sure that, in the opinion of the likes of you, doing an honest day’s work is the same thing as being “tortured and brutalized”. I have met many unions drones who would drop dead if they had to do an honest day’s work.

      • S.C.Murf

        Amen

        up the hill
        airborne

    • MSSouth

      So please please please move!!! If you don’t like it here, please go somewhere else. How about Cuba, Mexico, Iran, etc! Anywhere that you think you will be more happy!!! Else, quit harping!!!

      • Jovianus

        Take your own advice and quit trying to make this nation like the ones you cited.

    • Angel

      A majority of Americans agree with John Flath’s sentiments. According to a poll by that liberal-commie-Alinsky rag the Wall Street Journal, more people support the union workers in Wisconsin over the governor, more people support retention of collective bargaining rights, more people oppose cutting public education, more people favor deficit spending in time of recession rather than cuts, more people want the government (state and federal) to leave Medicare and Social Security alone, over 80% favor raising taxes on the rich, and so on. Other polls concur: PPP, CBS/NY Times, Rasmussen, Pew… sounds like a Kenyan plot to me.

      Some quotes:
      “Less than a quarter of Americans support trimming Social Security or Medicare to tackle the country’s budget deficit, according to a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll that illustrates the challenge facing lawmakers seeking voter support for altering entitlement programs.

      “The poll, conducted between Feb. 24 and 28, found strong opposition for cuts to these entitlement programs across all age groups and ideologies. Even tea party supporters, by a nearly 2-to-1 margin, declared cuts to Social Security “unacceptable.”" [Damn Commie teabaggers!!!]

      Read the commie manifesto here:
      http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/___Politics_Today_Stories_Teases/2-24-28-11.pdf

      participants:
      Very liberal ……………………………….8
      Somewhat liberal …………………………16
      Moderate ………………………………….38
      Somewhat conservative ……………….21
      Very conservative ………………………..15

      Mmmm… maybe the poll was like those rigged electronic ballots in Ohio in 2004 – when you voted for Kerry, it added 8 votes for Bush at the same time. (Oh, don’t blame Bush!!! It’s all Clinton’s penis’s fault!)

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      John:

      You are correct from the standpoint that Gov. Walker should lead by example and cut his own pay and benefits. The legislature should do the same.

      The 10 billion should go to balancing the national budget. The states have so much debt the pittance would not even be noticed. Besides if you give most of these politicians any money they will take license to spend that much more.

      You can OWN women in FL? When did the Muslims take over? Bet dem berkas look outa place onna beach!

  • HalB

    It is clear that there is a huge amount of misinformation floating around about Wisconsin. As a retired Civil Service worker, and many years as a private IT worker, several things are clear. When taxpayers pay salaries to workers, who are forced to pay Union Dues, and the Unions pay and make deals with Politicians to increase pay and benefits – there is clearly a conflict of interest from the taxpayer viewpoint. Who represents the taxpayer, when the Politician must cozy up to the Union to get their campaign funding, and get elected? Do the public employees deserve to be able to negotiate as do other workers, absolutely. the problem is the Union-Politician connection, leaving the taxpayer stuck with the decision. And the taxpayer can’t say “I don’t want to pay”, because it’s Jail or seizure of property if one does so. Is that fair? In fact, the vast number of “Tea Party” advocates in my area are liberal, conservative, and libertarians who can’t afford to stay in our homes because of the incredible tax burden in our area. We have been paying taxes for over 1/2 a century (yes – it’s an ‘older’ area) and have seen our children forced to move because of the staggering property taxes, and we who are left, who own our homes free and clear, are forced to leave because we can no longer afford to stay. And for every one of us who leaves, more burden is placed on those who stay. No ‘new’ homeowners come in because of the taxes, so property values drop, the State brings in welfare families into the vacant homes, again placing more burden on the bankrupt state, and yet the demand for increasing public employees’ salaries and benefits continues. What is the solution? All of you who have opinions, wish to place blame, etc. – try and offer solutions. Your talk is cheap and useless. Only real solutions matter, and we are in desperate need of real solutions. Governor Cuomo is attacking the problem by laying off State Workers. Same as NYC laying off City workers. That reduces costs, but increases unemployment. Is that the best solution? Again, all you who complain, comment, place blame, argue, and place ‘flaming’ blogs, use your time to come up with solutions that work. No solution? Spare us your rants. Remember Stokely Carmichael who said “if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem”. Lets see how many real solutions will appear here, and how many ridiculous ‘flaming blogs’ will appear.

    • http://www.personalliberty.com Akillion

      Absolutely HalB-AMen! …and I’m not religious but I CONCUR!

    • http://www.keysinsurance.com Linda

      I believe the governor has presented his solution.

    • Cliffystones

      I never could understand how taxing someone for owning and living in their own home ever got voted into law by those same homeowners. Like you said, even if you own your home free and clear, the government can put a tax burden on you that allows them to take your property if you don’t (can’t) pay it. Makes income tax seem down right reasonable.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      HalB… Solution? Get rid of the unions! How’s that? Clear enough for you and to the point quick enough?

    • Dominick Mondi

      Stokley Carmichael???????
      OMG

      • David in MA

        Actually, I understand it was Coretta Scott King (the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.’s wife) who made that statement…..

    • Fredrick

      I’ve ranted and complained, as voting my conscience has resulted in disappointing results. I rant and complain, because my hope is that if enough of us rant and complain, our elected officials will finally pay attention to us. My venting and yours, is no doubt useless, as someone suggested if we are not part of the solution we are part of the problem. To which I humbly ask, what are we supposed to do, to shake the reigns of tyranny, and restore the republic to what was intended by the founders?

    • Ruffmeister

      So where is your solution?

    • oldbill

      My late wife and I were part time county government employees for about ten years. We had no medical benefits, and received “half” time off for vacation and holidays. The job was close to home and fit our semi-retired lifestyle.

      The people have to decide what services they want government to provide, and the people will have to come to the realization that they will have to pay for it. Once this decision is made, the corrupt system will have to be voted out of office, and regulations will have to be put into place, to prevent the problem from happening again.

      The last time this happened was during the Great Depression, and history has repeated itself, because, the people removed the last set of regulations. Does anyone believe the economy is getting better?

      oldbill

    • Delbert Townley

      Well, like I have sent in before… Like a tree, if the roots are cut off, the tree will die. Good stewardship of our tree (Our USA) cut the top most limbs, or top the tree to let it regenerate and prosper. Make the House and Senate return this last $3000 per month pay increase they gave themselves and return that to we the people. How about cutting 50% of each of their ancillary staff too. This seems bi-partisan to me.

    • Robert

      the solution is for the states to relieve themselves of the gross abuses of the federal government to include too many taxes and with that money freed up to repair their states. too much federal waste has squandered the republic and it’s time to take that control back. we do this by dismantlement of the Dept of Education, HUD, and all other illegitimate bureaucracies in favor of a return to the document that served us well until all these shenanigans cropped up. if people won’t work then they should not eat – that will cure the bloated welfare rolls (some are valid and we need to provide as able).
      no one answer is the solution – this took decades to get to and it’s going to take some time to address properly.

    • David in MA

      The voters pay because the voters continue to re-elect the same politicians who created a problem……so, your getting exactly what you asked for.

      You cannot expect the politician who creates a budget inbalance to correct it because it was done for a reason, which in all probability, the politician will not want to reverse thereself on…..

      Voters have to become more involved in their government(s), they have to become more educated in everything in government.

      For years I believed the local government in my (and the country) was being run by honest and capable people, until I went to work for “the town”, was I mistaken!

      I never had the time to look at what was going on, well, I am retired now, and I am involved now. It takes some time and disagreements but it is necessary, I, at least now feel I am having the opportunity to offer input.

    • Gizmo

      HalB: common sense needs to prevail.
      1. when a private company has no more money to pay, what happens?
      Yeah, downsizing, then bankruptcy… Not so in Government jobs;
      2. Government “jobs” do NOT produce. They are leacher jobs. They produce NO product, NO money, nothing tangible. If a private company would be as leacherous, they’d be put out of business or there’d be a tie-in to government intervention – ie; banks, GM, Chrysler, etc;
      3. If I don’t show up for my work, I don’t make a dime and would be fired. Yet, we now have teachers, firemen, policemen & other GOVERNMENT employees staying away from their jobs for WEEKS without redress. They need to be fired on the spot, hire permanent subs that WANT to teach, & pay them with the fired teachers’ salaries;
      4. What happened to the children??!?! What in blazes do you think this is teaching the CHILDREN?!?! Disrespect for law, disrespect for authority the “highest calling” is what the union tells you and what you conceive as a greivence to your own personal pocket – to hell with anyone else, to hell with budgets and overspending, etc…
      5. Our company just went through the worst 2 years in our almost 10 year history. No government handouts, no TARP, no bank loan (they wouldn’t TOUCH us!!! even with their millions given!!)we WORKED our way through, cut ALL unnecessary spending, ate a LOT of beans & rice and Raman Noodles. We had to put off braces for 1 kid, glasses for wife, surgery for me until we could see better finances. We made it, we’re stronger for it because we KNOW that we came through! Guess these “union workers, government employees, etc” need to do? Yep! Buck up, take the hits as we ALL are, DO THEIR JOBS if they are willing (quit or be replaced if they’re NOT), maybe start a home business or 2nd job for more income… Yeah, do what is necessary to get through WITHOUT standing around bellyaching that they’re not getting enough of the public dole, enough handouts!!!
      This is UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. We do NOT stand around with our hands out, we do NOT cry because government’s not giving us “more”… we go out & EARN it – Somehow… Period….

    • Flynn

      Sure! The solution is easy. Just let public workers return to a work ethic of the past, stop demanding more than they are worth, and perform an amount of work worthy of their pay. Workers who work for themselves have no right to bargain. Public workers pay taxes too.

    • http://google Leonard W. Giddens Jr.

      The solution is very semple. We need to start by pluging the black hole. Stop the leaches from comming into this country. These leaches drain our social programs that are set up to help those that has fallan on hard times, people that has contributed to our Government via them steeling, forcing or taking our money weather we like it or not. That same money is used to pay for food stamps, health care, child berth, protecting these leaches from other Countries. We have enough leaches that are Americans. Stop these people from taking the jobs, where in most cases they don’t pay taxes, get intrest free loans, and they line up each week sending our American dollars back to their Country. We have got to stop trying to suckle the worlds needy, when we have needy here that are being pushed aside to make room for outsiders. Get rid of the gangsters that has caused our jobs to go to others Countries, have caused our cost of living to go though the roof by forcing companies to pay rediculasly high wages to people that, in most cases don’t deserve it. Every time the union forces more money from the “rank and file” there are those that get no raises, but have to face the higher cost of living because of a group that make it so. It is a never ending scam. The union gangsters are the only ones that benifit from the raises. The little money that is left from the races are just enough to get some foolish people in more debt that they in no way can afford.Stop funding the ACLU and orginizations like them to sue the people/Government for all the sleazy so called minorities. Today minority has taken on a differnt name. Stop wasting money on things that should be taken care of by privet parties, the arts for one, that is a total disgrace as of lately. It has nothing to do with art, it advances the love of filth. Change the tax code so every citizen, orginization,including churches, they can pay a fare share. The Churches are nothing more than a money laungry. One only needs to remember JIM BAKER. Of course we have the morden day Baker, Long, that fleace the flock to live the life of Riley by telling the same old lie week after week. Stop wasting money suing states of this Country for stupid no miret reasons. Elect a Prisedent that doesn’t think he/she should tell the people what to do. One that will follow the laws and the constitution and not kiss the rears of special intrest group, just for votes. Groups that want to destroy our Country and our way of life because they have a problem, and want others to change to accomedate their way of life.If we start with the fore mentioned, we will begain to see a change for the better for all people. NO MORE MONEY FOR BABY KILLERS.

    • nationAP

      “Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations … The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for … officials … to bind the employer … The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives …

      “Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people … This obligation is paramount … A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent … to prevent or obstruct … Government … Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government … is unthinkable and intolerable.”

      - Franklin D Roosevelt (D), 1937

    • http://outlookexpress Edwin

      It’s time that government operate within the bounds of which they were constructed and quit trying to domineer every aspect of the public’s life. Government of all levels are oprating for the betterment of the public and their only duties are education, roads and security, all else is greed and domineering.
      Government needs to stop the lie that they are the ones that create jobs. The only jobs they have the legal right to create are government jobs and this only adds to the problem. The only way they can influence the job growth is by less taxation and regulation.
      Unless government quits breaking the law in their quest for control the public has the same right in not paying the tax which would enable them to do the job of which they are responsible.
      Unless our government does their duty and close our borders to the hordes of criminals invading our country and round up those already here and deport them the public has no responsibility of paying a government that refuses to do their responsibility the taxes that would afford them the revenue to do so.

    • The Prophet-Messenger

      Yes Here Is The Solution. Let The Government Create Jobs In The Fields One Has Expertise I, But Happens To Be Laid Off Now, And Employ Them. For Instance, We Need Bridge Makeovers, Let The Laid Off Engineers And Bridge Workers, Who Are Qualified For The Job But Are Laid Off, Return To Work At A Reasonable, Not Exorbitant, Wage! A Wage The American Public Can Afford Like The Government Did In The Thirties. Encourage And Fund Businesses To Start Creating Factories, Offices, Jobs And Materials In The Many Various Fields We Now Depend On Overseas Labor To Create And Ship To Us. Encourage The American People To Only Buy Items Made Here In The U.S.A. Lower The Tax Stress On Business And Require The Very Rich To Pay Their Fair Of These Taxes. Use Money From The Funds Allotted For Overseas Programs, To Be Retained Here, For Our Business Entrepreneurs.

    • ChuckL

      Since HalB has ruled out cutting costs and there is no way to increase revenue, there is no solution.

      You could prohibit unionization of any government employee, and prohibit the government from making any payment to any retirement plan. If Social (IN)Security isn’t good enough, IT ISN’T, then allow a real retirement plan to be implemented by the legislature. This must be open to all, and may not require only government employees. But I can hear HalB from Nevada on this suggestion.

    • Tunaman

      Well, if sanity and common sense can’t be brought back to these criminals known as the SEIU, then let the state go bankrupt, when the public can’t pay the TAXES to cover all this graft!! Then no one gets anything and CHAOS will be the order of the day!!! The ship of state is everyone’s responsiblity and when she goes down all of Wisconsan will be on it!! HAPPY SAILING!

    • Paul Roth

      as a worker, I was verbally and socially abused. Imaginine not punishing a manager who removes an a large AC unit from a work space used by 30 employees and puts it in his office which already has an adequate working AC in his office. The union filed a grievance, But no one in the higher command was willing to deal with this political appointment. or evan to purchase a replacement unit for $600. It was hot that summer and the rules called for paid time off if the temperature went above 90 degrees. It did We had 12 hour shedulue so those who voluneer to remain at the site, got future tme off. It took a year to settle a greivance which should never have happened. There is a lot a abuse in the workplace, it is worse in non-union workplaces. Power corrupts management not paying equal pay for equal work is a big problem and that is major grievance. How impoertant is apointment based on merit. It is vital.

      If I fail in the class room, is because the class size is too large, the students arre mainstreame because without regard to ability to learn., lack of parental support, physical neglect of school, The theaches donot hire the over paid superintnets and have no role in selecting the others who do the admistrative and custodial roles. or have any thing to do with the unhealthy meals provide to their students. when collective bargaiining breaksdown you go to binding arbitration. Most of the time management would have gotten a
      better deall from the union. Without a union myself and other members would never have gotten promotion merit exam It took 8 years before management agreed. In the non union world I was fired twice because my salary had maxed out to what the boss wanted to pay for my position. Never forget why the triangle shirtwaiwst fire in NYC happenned in 1911- unsafe working condition by allowed by management/owers Within 2 years theer were laws to limit child labor , working conditions and hours. Why defund safety laws. It dosn’t lower cost to society, we need more safety. there two many injuries and deaths cause by unsafe workplaces and consumer goods.
      did you know you pay more for fire insurance the further the distance from a fire engine station Do want lower real estate taxes aor do want higher insurance costs?` do you want pay for educated students or pay lot more in taxes to keep them in prision and to suppervise them after release You can pay the cost of icaceration or the cost of class rom for about the same amount of budget cash flow.

      How long will it tske Gov Walker to arrested and and sentenced to jail time?

    • MAG

      Very well said Hal. My response is teachers should not be treated any different than any other profession. A company says we need workers and here is what the job pays and what the benefits are. In public teaching positions, the company is the state, and in private teaching positions the company is the institution. Both employers should know what it can afford to pay to each position it needs in order to operate. If an employee wants to belong to a union, then I believe that is the right of the individual. The employer does not hire the union. It hires the employee, but if the employer mistreats the employee then the union would represent the individual upon what the rights are for a worker set forth in the agreement that the employee signed when hired. If anyone believes that an employer should pay out more money than it takes in, then that person was taught by a terrible teacher. This is not rocket science. It is basic third grade math.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Wiselady

      wiselady says:

      The damage is so severe that we must immediately demand that NO UNION contribute to politicians through PAC. Let the empoyees give donations on their own with no Union interference. Reduce the collective bargaining powers to more effective measures, emplyee safety, insurance coverage, less regulation demands by Unions on what the employees can and cannot do. No strikes against the, city, county,or state as established for Fed. employees. They work for the tax payers and there is no way we can voice our opinion except through the elected officials who are in cahoots with the Unions because of the donations they receive. The dog is chasing its tail and the bubble has burst. WE HAVE NO MORE MONEY! TEACHERS, DO SOME MATH, KEEP BETTER INFORMED ON THE COST OF RUNNING A GOVERNMENT THAT OVERSPENDS WITHOUT ACCOUNTABILITY!!!

    • Les

      So went Rome…..

      If you read enough information about this you will see that everyone involved has an agenda. Left, Right, Up, Down. Doesn’t matter.

      The government workers know full well they cheat the system any way they can. They pad their hours to inflate their retirement. I would like some real facts. How many of these “Workers” live in the state they are getting paid by? How many of the union reps that get paid out of the union dues live in the state?

      The bright side to this all has the same effect as corporate America. People (taxpayers) will leave the state when they can no longer afford to live there just as consumers fled the big 3 auto makers. Keep thinking you so damned special and you end up looking like Detroit does now.

      And don’t feed me any crap that I don’t know the issues. I’m a former federal worker who has also spent many years as a contractor. I have never seen a single government worker fired for incompetence. I’ve only personally seen 3 fired for theft. And remember the Fed used to have a retirement plan where you could retire after 30 years. Even the Fed woke up to the reality of that error and changed the retirement.

      Keep fiddling while Rome burns….

    • Vincent

      Solution #1: Ban unions from being able to direct funds to politicians.
      Solution #2: Ban union representation for all Federal and State workers.
      Solution #3: Provide representation for the taxpayer outside of the elected reps because they are tainted with the union money.

      No one would agree to any of these solutions especially the WI bus driver that made over $100,000 in overtime pay. What union employee would want to let go of the great pay and benefits, all of which is being paid for by the public sector. If anyone is serious about solving problems they should contact your elected reps and tell them their are solutions.

  • Bill L.

    John Flath, If we are so bad why are people lining up at US embassies across the globe on a daily basis and applying fervently for visas to come to the US. Why are Mexican immigrants coming across the border daily, riding jam packed in vehicles under great duress to come to america to work. Is it so great in their country? Why is the US such a ‘Diabolic’ nation? One reason the federal budget deficit is so high is the amount of foreign aid we supply to countries all over the world. Egypt is a receipient of over 1.5 Billion dollars every year from the US. Much of this aid is for humanitarion projects. Why is the US such a diabolic and evil country to send our military to Iraq to create a democracy where the people there can have a right to vote, and to rid a tyrannical dictator who slaughtered thousands of his countrymen for speaking out against their dictator(Hussein). Do you remember the gassing of the Kurdish People?
    Who is the first country on the scene when natural disasters strike in foreign lands? China? Japan? Germany? FRANCE?? I don’t think so. If the US is so bad, you must now be considering going to the embassy of a foreign country while your down there in Florida to sign up for a visa, right? God Help you!

    • Angel

      Bill L. wrote:
      “If we are so bad why are people lining up at US embassies across the globe on a daily basis and applying fervently for visas to come to the US. Why are Mexican immigrants coming across the border daily, riding jam packed in vehicles under great duress to come to america to work.”

      Answer: wages paid by corporations under the table (off the books) to illegal immigrants is higher than it is in their own country.

      • JeffH

        Angel, another typically liberal answer without one iota of fact to support it.

    • Chief

      Bill L I think maybe you have hit the nail on the head with your post.As you said everything going overseas with no relief for our homeland.As I read the many post here I have come to one conclusion the money has run out cuts has to be made whether we like it or not.When you write a check to pay your bills what happens if the money isn’t in your account to cover it. Guess what that is the situation in lots of our states night now.Unions have outlived their usefulness they no longer want descent wages and benefits but outrageous ones it has to stop we can no longer afford them.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com Akillion

    DId I miss something?!? Haven’t the Unions CONCEDED to an increase in their pension benefits? Haven’t they CONCEDED to an increase to payments for their healthcare? Haven’t they conceded to a wage negotiations(btw, their has been a freeze in raises for some time now), all they want to do is have the ability to have their voices heard? The right is all about “no compromise”, which is INSANE in these times. Let’s see, to be fiscally sound: let’s give tax breaks to the wealthy, which lowers government revenue, let’s demolish the right for employees to bargain, because after-all, teachers and fire-fighters have no knowledge of what a classroom needs or equipment for fighting fires, and that’s how we’ll get this economy back on track. Gov. Walker stated he’d give the teacher “tools” they need to get the job done, lol! More right-wing empty generalizations. Maybe the next time theirs a serial-killer on the loose, you’ll call the “job-creators” to capture him, because after-all, they’ll have all the resources, lol! The fact that someone stated the mobs were “violent and angry”–hmmmm. Was that the mob they showed on Fox News, the city of Madison Wisc. with Palm trees-wth?!? Such hypocrits. The Wisconsin 14 are HEROES and on the RIght side of Public Opinion. Unions are the last bit of balance, although they’re outweighed in ou political process. BIg Business and Banks give their dollars to the GOP, which in-turn lets business run amuck with little-to-no regulation. If they get rid of Unions, sweatshops will be in America within the next decade because after all, “In America, taxes are too high and they over-regulate you to the point that you can’t make any money.”

    • http://personalliberty.com rchick

      Has anyone noticed that the bloggers with the word “kill” in their name (aKILLian and KILLa from wasilla) are liberal zealots? Hmmm Just find that intriguing.

    • Ray

      Your post shows total ignorance of the situation.

      • Ray

        continuing -

        A fallacy is, very generally, an error in reasoning. This differs from a factual error, which is simply being wrong about the facts. To be more specific, a fallacy is an “argument” in which the premises given for the conclusion do not provide the needed degree of support. A deductive fallacy is a deductive argument that is invalid (it is such that it could have all true premises and still have a false conclusion). An inductive fallacy is less formal than a deductive fallacy. They are simply “arguments” which appear to be inductive arguments, but the premises do not provided enough support for the conclusion. In such cases, even if the premises were true, the conclusion would not be more likely to be true.

        Over your head?

    • Cawmun Cents

      American sweatshops will at least have airconditioning…..whats the beef?

    • Cawmun Cents

      Yes heroes always run away from there jobs and hide in Chicago…a hotbed of political level-headedness,right?

    • LES

      Banks gave much more to Obama than McCain. In turn Obama gave the taxpayers money to the banks in form of stimulus. It is Wall Street, Banks and large business like GE supporting Obama now looking for that payoff.

  • Chris

    Chip, you are a great master baiter. You only report the facts necessary to slant the story the way you want for your target audience. You never tell the full story. No one reports any more. Everything is slanted to one side or the other.

    • http://yahoo Ed

      the very sad part on this one is …. this IS the full story ….

      • Jovianus

        Not even close Ed…not even close. Chip gave his one sided myopic GOP Far Right talking points memo. It’s not his obligation to tell the news or ‘the story”. He tosses out th red meat for the day’s debate and says ‘have at it”…and also pushes his main income source….pitching gold and precious metals funds.

        • S.C.Murf

          jovbob you are another that when confronted with the truth you bury your head in the anus

          • eddie47d

            Those Democrat Representatives who refuse to accept Gov Walkers lopsided requests are standing with all decent Americans who don’t want their voice silenced by fiat. The Governor doesn’t represent a Democracy or a Republic by taking away something somebody earned without a redress process.There was plenty of room for compromise yet he chose not to. Those pensions/salaries were negotiated in good faith.If they are a burden now then they would have been a burden at the negotiating table. So Those officials dropped the ball years ago. Since Chip wants to play “Vinnie the enforcer” by calling union members “goons and thugs”and “angry parasites” then I don’t think he really cares about anyone who wants to make a living. That is clear when he said he emphasises “busting skulls” and accusations of “stealing elections”.

        • Angel

          Jovianus, you are wrong – these are not Chip’s talking points or the right’s talking points or the GOP’s talking points. These are straight out of their corporate masters’ talking points. Follow the money!

          • smilee

            They are all one and the same,, they all speak the same language but rarely the truth

        • libertytrain

          jov – perhaps I don’t know how to read as well as you do but where is he talking about gold in this article?

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, isn’t that a part of the usual liberal rants against Chip? Remember that he’s been accused of promoting gun violence with his trademark “keep some powder dry”? Don’t you think that Chip is just selling gold and oil for his own profit and his advertizers? Neither do I!

          • libertytrain

            :)

          • get right

            Jeff, http://www.assetstrategies.com/chip_wood

            He is selling for a profit….what do you think, he works for no money?? Of course he is biased, why wouldn’t he be?

          • JeffH

            DUH! Chip has never “promoted” his business on this website! I suppose, to you liberals, that means he’s not allowed to be involved with an asset company seperate from PLD or suggest that people might want to invest in precious metals.

          • JeffH

            Oh, eyes, my original comment was in reference to what Chip does on this website, not in his own personal business.

          • libertytrain

            Jeff, looks like eyes, I’m sorry “get right,” is promoting Chip by providing a website – I didn’t see that in the article or in his bio. How gracious of her to do that for Chip – obviously she appreciates that he too, works for his bread and butter.

          • JeffH

            libertytrain, she’s still the same-O same-O.

    • http://personalliberty.com rchick

      Chris:

      Not sure if a non-biased article actually exists these days. You have to take the author’s views into account. I’m not sure if he slants it as much as you believe, but I’ll bet you don’t agree with his philosophy.

      At least he does lend credibility to his article because he includes the facts about the state not wanting to collect mandatory union fees and the fees having to be “voluntary.” I think that’s the “wild hair” up the union’s butt.

      • Chris

        If Chip did some research(and maybe he did and failed to mention it because it doesn’t fit with his slant)he would have mentioned what the governor has given away to certain intersts to cause this budget crisis.

        • JeffH

          Chris, maybe you’d like do a little research yourself and provide something other than your word that Gov. Walker, who’s only been the Governor of Wisconsin since January 3, 2011, caused the budget crisis in Wisconsin? Who’s slant is misleading? Your’s or Chips?

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Hey Chris__ Walker was hired to do just what he is doing, we can’t help if some don’t like it.

          • bob wire

            That’s true Angel, and perhaps some good will come of it. BUT!

            I still want to know if there is some assurances in place to where this sacrifice goes to good use , don’t you? What do you or I know about this?

            These notions of dissolving the public school systems are reaching least wise at this point in time.

            I’m not opposed to change but I am opposed to disparity. To the special selection of laws government decides to enforce today.

            To the hobbling of one citizen and giving another citizen a running start.

            To, by law creating a condition where compliance comes at great expenses to a selected few, while some rejoice.

  • http://yahoo Ed

    Great article … to the point and spot on …. tax supported workers should NEVER NEVER NEVER have the right to collective bargain for money out of MY pocket. If they ask nicely … prove to me that its needed …. and I have it to give … MAYBE they will get it … but its MY decision … NOT YOURS..the government budget is NOT a money tree that grows in the state capitol … its MY POCKET…. the catholic church does something similar … if you dont pay your tithes that THEY decide is appropriate … you can be excommunicated …. not get your final rights issued … and in their eyes …. not go to heaven … imagine … the catholic church is a union representative for heaven and THEY decide who gets in and who doesnt based on what you pay … im sure GOD is pleased with that one…..

    • Dominick Mondi

      Ed,
      You’re full of it. There is no such thing as tithing in the catholic religion and they don’t bar you from Heaven for not contributing. If you want to blast anyone’s faith, get the facts right.

  • http://www.piedmontwebmasterservices.com Dan

    Government workers should not be unionized at all. Unions where begun to bargain wages against a companies profits. So where is government profits and who are they bargaining with? Elected officials who they helped elect in most cases. Elected officials who the unions spend millions of $$$ yearly to keep in office to protect their own interests. Government employee unions should be disbanded and not allowed to exist. Or maybe they are trying to bargain for better working conditions, holidays and sick days? Give me a break. Oh, yeah they bargain for seniority rights so long term employees are set for life whether they serve a function or are good workers or not.

    People also need to remember that we may end up paying government workers two pensions also, their retirement pay from government service and Social Security.

    • http://yahoo Ed

      right on Dan … government does not make a profit … never has …. every nickle it spends from the very first one is deficit spending … right out of someone elses pocket …. the problem in wisconsin and in most other states is the lack of a system of checks and balances …. hence … never a balance…. any moron can see this is true …. except for some unknown reason … teachers … go figure….

      • Cliffystones

        Unfortunately, even morons have better eyesight than libtards.

  • Chuck Hinners

    Bob
    The state funded University of Wisconsin does a great job of statist indoctrination as opposed to the “sifting and winnowing” they paid lip service to when I attended in the 60s.
    The Capitol is state property and the protestors are trespassing at great cost to the Wisconsin taxpayers. Arrest them

    But state owned property? Does that compute in a free capitalist society. No, since allowing government to own property must comes at the expense of individuals and only individuals have rights, the taxpayer has been cheated long ago to allow governments to own property for some notion of “greater common good”

    Over 100 years of statist doctrine is going to be unwound. It will be painful but relatively short, but as it unwinds and businesses are allowed to thrive free of government shackles we will see unimagined prosperity. Some public sector workers will become rich become entrepreneurs in the same manner that displaced industrial workers survived in the eighties. Keep up your great work!

  • Nan

    The Unions did some good things back in its day. BUT now it has gone extreme and needs to be taken
    down a lot of notches. The democrats that ran out of the state should be brought up on criminal charges. All Governors should take Walkers lead. These people are helping Obama bleed this great country dry. Wake Up People and take responsibility for your life, this to is a God given right.

  • Reid Hyams

    Next time you write an article, start by getting your facts straight, period. This is nothing but right wing propaganda.

    • http://yahoo Ed

      with the emphasis on “Right” …..

      • ciniowa

        Yea..right wingnut!!

    • JeffH

      WRONG! You commies should be able to recognize propaganda by now, or maybe not? You’re fed propaganda 24/7 and still don’t know what propaganda is? I think I understand now!

    • JC

      Well Reid…you have here the opportunity and the forum to rebut the article don’t you? So why haven’t you done that as opposed just ranting? (Oh Right…he’s a LibCom)

  • bob wire

    “According to multiple newspaper accounts from the time, Lincoln once purposefully left the Illinois Statehouse to prevent a quorum from being reached to hold a crucial vote in 1840. Before serving as President Lincoln was a state senator in the Illinois legislature. Before a crucial vote in the Illinois Senate the Democrats knew that the Republicans may try to prevent a quorum from being reached by leaving the Statehouse. The Democrats ordered the doors to the building locked. Lincoln still reportedly avoided the vote, and quorum from being reached, by opening a window and escaping from the second floor of the building. One newspaper joked that Lincoln’s “long legs” prevented him from being injured as he left from the second floor.

    Lincoln is now seen by many as the greatest Republican President ever. History has a way of romanticizing leaders, but a true account shows that Lincoln engaged in exactly the same kind of creative legislative obstruction as the Wisconsin Democrats.”

    Continue reading on Examiner.com: Wisconsin Democrats find company with Abraham Lincoln – National Political Buzz | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz-in-national/wisconsin-democrats-find-company-with-abraham-lincoln#ixzz1Fdffz4fl

    It’s ~~~~just ~~ awful ! Highly irregular! Can they do that? Oh dear!

    Now that some sleepy democrats have been woken from their slumbering indifference to politics in general, I just don’t think that they are going to be all that happy with whats going on.

    Can more people making less money be a good thing? Maybe so, but how does consumers with less money to spend, ~ help the small business man or local and state revenue collection? Is there anyone out there willing to explain it?

    • Jeep

      bob, Lincoln was certainly not held in high regard by the majority of the country towards the end of the Civil War. The idolizing “process” (read history re-write) for Lincoln began after reconstruction was well underway as an expediant method to heal the wounds of the war. That story is for another time, but leave it to say that Lincoln was reviled during his time in office by many as he suspended and twisted the Constitution many times. Mass arrests and the suspension of basic liberties in the name of security were commonplace, especially at the outset of hostilities. As for his early political career, it is well known that Lincoln was astute at understanding the intricacies of state congressional rules and used “loopholes” on a number of instances (including your aforementioned one). In the end, the North “won” and the union survived. As to it’s condition after the fact, well, that can debated.

      The point of this is to say that although the outcome of this kind of “monkey-shines” may be to forestall a vote, in the end it’s just political gamesmanship. To paraphrase another of your posts, we’ll have to see who blinks first.

      • Cliffystones

        I’d just like to add that at least Conservatives and libertarians can admit when “one of their own” (read Republican) wasn’t a savior. Unlike Obamacrats.

        • bob wire

          Now what exactly is an a Obamacrat?

          can you define that for us please? Is it just too much to ask, to get beyond curt names and labels? I know many myself, do you really want to hear them Or are we left to volley them back and forth?

          And , Yes, Jeep, the measure of a man or leadership potential is not judged by their “likability” ~ That Lincoln was hated at the time by many is a “given”

          You don’t have 160,000 Americans die in Mr. Miller cornfield before lunch and people come away thinking, “Oh well!”

          The crazy thing is, Booth shot Lincoln in the back of the head thinking he would be revered a hero. Broken his leg in the jump to exit the building then insured a 5 day run where he was tracked down like a dog and found few people sympathetic to his state of affair. Booth swam the Potomac River three times and slept in the swamp the 3rd night in his attempt reach safety and end up only allowed to sleep someones horse barn the 4th night. Come morning, the barn surrounded, someone found a crack in barns wood siding and shot Booth in neck, severing his spine. (I suppose that quieted the pain in his leg)

          Booth was no hero but an assassin. Booth displayed the characteristics of a man obsessed , that was wrought and drives to correct injustices.

          That any means might somehow justify an end.

          We can’t afford such thoughts, Americans are blessed with much, we have too much to lose.

          • Jeep

            It’s strange how of the four assassinated presidents we have had, their killers all had strikingly different motives. Booth was looking for attention, Guiteau was just crazy (he believed God told him to do it), Czolgosz was an anarchist that thought there was too much economic inequality (although, how would killing the president fix that?), and Oswald, well, it depends on who you ask, but he was an avowed communist.

            Of course, it could be argued that all of them were just plain crazy, too!

          • bob wire

            The fastest way I know to get bad press!

          • JC

            Jeep, there are other correlations as well.
            (Think: Central Banks)

    • Angel

      Lincoln was another Alisky scum.

  • http://yahoo Ed

    Democracy for everyone …. except citizens … aint it great ???

  • momplayer1954

    IT SEEMS LIKE WE ARE BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE., BUT I THINK PEOPLE WOULD BE ALOT MORE RECEPTIVE TO LOWER PAY IF THEY COULD LOWER THEIR BILLS. YOU CAN’T BLAME PEOPLE FOR TRYING TO MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY HOUSE PAYMENTS,FOOD ECT. THIS IS A TIME FOR ALL TO STEP-UP. THE BANKS ARE NOT WILLING TO WORK WITH MORTGAGE HOLDERS IN ANYWAY.YOU CAN’T MAKE THE SAME HOUSE PAYMENT ON $7.00 PER HOUR THAT YOU DID MAKING $20.00.ASK YOURSELF IF YOU COULD LIVE YOUR SAME LIFESTYLE MAKING $10.00 AS YOU HAD MAKING $20.00 WOULD YOU GRIPE? THE TAXPAYERS BAILED OUT THE BANKS MAKING THE SACRIFICE TO KEEP THEM IN BUSINESS,YET THE BANKS ARE NOT WILLING TO MAKE ANY.THE BANKS CONTROL,THE GOVERMENT IS NOT WILLING TO MAKE THE BANKS MEDIATE ANY MORTGAGES. WHEN YOU BOUGHT YOUR HOUSE THE BANK TOLD YOU WHAT THEY WOULD LEND YOU NOW THAT HOUSES ARE WORTH 1/2 THEY STILL WANT THEIR FULL MONEY NOT 1/2.THE BIG BANKS NEED TO MAKE THE SAME CONCESSIONS THAT THE PEOPLE ARE.

  • Pathos

    why doesn t the governor just make the reforms temporary, say like 3 years, and then vote on the reform again, maybe the economy will be better by then (sigh)? i back the governor, but lets just see if the unions are willing to “sacrifice”, just temporarily.

  • DDS in WI

    Fact 1) WI is not and was not bankrupt. In Jan SW gave 117M in tax cuts to big business to try to create jobs. This offset required an increase in benefit contributions from state employees to health and pension. This has been agreed in principle from the employees. Fact 2)I have attented the protests and have not witnessed any violence or thugs. Fox News reported this and had footage however there were palm trees in the background (hmm in WI, I don’t think so) Fact 3)Pension for state workers in WI is NOT underfunded. State employees pay in a deferred sense their own pension. Its not a tax on the citizens. Fact 4) resorting to words like parasites, toads, bottom feeders, and blood suckers is well below the standard I expect from Chip. Fact 5) The people of the state (both private and public) are against the collective bargaining elimination by approximately 65 to 35%. Now that being said let the name calling start from the class war upper crust. No I am not a state worker. I just support what is fair.

    • bob wire

      “Fact 1) WI is not and was not bankrupt. In Jan SW gave 117M in tax cuts to big business to try to create jobs.”

      Question #1, If 117 million was given, spent or credited to big business, where is the receipt? I would think if I gave or spent $117 million I would be given assurances that this money would be used as I intended it to be used. NO? ~ That’s lot of money to just “hope for the best” and just “maybe” my states economy “might” see some “RETURNS” on a $117,000,000 dollar investment.

      Question#2 Where is the documents that reflect “THESE INTENTIONS” ~ and explains to the tax payer of Wisconsin exactly “how” their money is being spent?

      Question#3 Who was the parties involved in this decision to spend $117 million dollars in the middle of difficult economic times? I would like to know their names, where they work, where they live, what they do, I want addresses and phone numbers, Tax ID numbers, I want to know something about the people that spent 117 million dollars and who exactly the spent it on. I want binding “letter of intent”, insurance bonds,riders, umbrellas.

      This is the way business is conducted everyday by independents in this country. It’s not asking too much for these things and only a greenhorn fool would elect to ignore these omissions.

      I have yet to see or hear of any documentation, not so much as a proposal for this 117 million.

      • Dale on the left coast

        BOOB . . . Remember the health-care non-debate? Remember the reply of the imposter in the WH? I believe he said “We Won” . . . that is the situation in WI . . . . the Dimmicrap Senators are cowards . . . the unions are affiliated with some of the worst loosers on the planet . . . time to wake up!!!

        • DDS in WI

          Excellent use of name calling to lend credibility to your cause. Chip, Glen and Rush have taught you well young grass hopper.

        • eddie47d

          ….geee,not one word on how that 117 million affected Gov Walkers decision to go after unions. Smoke and mirrors!

      • DDS in WI

        Associated Press 3/1/11:
        Walker asked for $82 million in tax cuts, including an expanded exclusion for capital gains realized on investments made in Wisconsin-based businesses. The Legislature previously approved more than $117 million in Walker-backed tax cuts that take effect later this year.

        I can’t find any further detail at this time.

        In addition, he through a few bones to his buddies to make some new roads and eliminate the requirement for insurance companies to cover birth control. WTF? Win the future.

      • DDS in WI

        Great questions Mr. Wire, perhaps Scotty is the only one that can answer. See my findings posted.

        • bob wire

          Thanks for your efforts DDS in WI, ~ I’ve ran into much the same dead end.

          I find it sort of odd that a Governor would launch such a provocative campaign to balance a budget shortfall that he helped create in just 4 months in office while asking so much from a select few to honor his plan without some solid research and a documented commitment by the business community that is to be the recipient of 117 million dollars.

          If I was a governor , I’d seek the cooperation of all parties with a “plan of approach”, offering research, data that might offer assurances to the goals we work to agree on.

          I don’t believe that this has been done in a thoughtful, professional,comprehensive matter which greatly diminishes the plan of ever be successful.

          It appears that Governor Walker has elected to just “throw money” at a problem and hope for the best. Much like 43 choose to do with taxes his tax concessions.

          That is not the way to lead or the mark of leadership. I fear Walker’s political ambitions will be short lived in spite of who presently supports him.

          I’m beginning to believe Walker doesn’t possess the skills to make a thirsty horse drink.

    • JR

      Fair or not fair that is not the question, People will go after you because they have been programmed by the talking heads on AM radio and FOX TV and by thinly veiled “get rich fast” articles like this to act like a bunch of hyenas or a pack of hungry wolfs.
      There is NOTHING a sane person can do to try to even instill 1% of common sense and truth in the minds of the lemmings.

  • Mick

    We can all see when the hard working high moral valued representatives retreat to being from Wisconsin or Indiana, you guessed it……ILLINOIS,,
    What a coincidence, just where our dear President come from…..

    Can anyone read between the lines concerning this State ?

    • bob wire

      Nice ‘dots”! do they go to the grassy knoll?

    • Angel

      I thought the President was from Kenya. Man, I cannot get these wacky stories straight.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Angel, Obama is from Kenya, his wife Michelle even admitted it___But you don’t see anything in truth, you’ll say the video’s been worked___am I right_Sweetie?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfA5b1HDb1E

      • JLC

        Angel — He was senator from Illinois. He couldn’t claim Kenya. It isn’t a state — yet.

  • Henry Ledbetter

    Chip Thanks for the article. Could it be true that the bible is right and “”THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL?” It is not the money but the LOVE OF IT that causes all the problems. We all might be wise in laying up treasures in a place where moth’s, rust, corruption and thieves can’t break through to steal. JUST A THOUGHT .

  • Delores Smith

    CHIP WOOD – GREAT ARTICLE – Think about this solution
    How about Scott Walker amending the State Constituion of Wisconsin to add an emergency amendment requiring all members be present for voting due to the financial crisis. This would be an emergency act, and would most likely require a 2/3′s of the both bodies. I’m not sure. Republicans have the votes, and Scott Walker should do this immediately. Set a date and a time that all be present. Notify them by public media that the vote will be for 2/3′s of those present. Anyone absent will not have a vote and will be fined. What do all of you think??
    Delores Smith
    Delores109@cox.net

    • Mick

      Delores Smith says:
      March 4, 2011 at 8:36 am
      CHIP WOOD – GREAT ARTICLE – Think about this solution
      How about Scott Walker amending the State Constituion of Wisconsin to add an emergency amendment requiring all members be present for voting due to the financial crisis. This would be an emergency act, and would most likely require a 2/3′s of the both bodies. I’m not sure. Republicans have the votes, and Scott Walker should do this immediately. Set a date and a time that all be present. Notify them by public media that the vote will be for 2/3′s of those present.
      Anyone absent will not have a vote and will be fined. What do all of you think??
      Delores Smith
      *******************************************
      Delores,,,,Delores,,,,Not bad Dolores but I personally think these Senators should be recalled with no chance ever to run again….
      America has enough problems without those supposed leaders throwing fits and walking off with absolutely no concern for the good of the whole state,,,
      We need workers not walkers..

      • DDS in WI

        Recall the 14 and prevent them from ever running again because they left the state to prevent an unfair – non negotiable bill to kill the schools. If this was the law Abraham Lincoln would never have run for president becuase he did the same thing 150+ years ago. That would make the rebel flag in your truck window be very patriotic.

        • Mick

          DDS in WI says:
          March 4, 2011 at 11:53 am
          Recall the 14 and prevent them from ever running again because they left the state to prevent an unfair – non negotiable bill to kill the schools. If this was the law Abraham Lincoln would never have run for president becuase he did the same thing 150+ years ago. That would make the rebel flag in your truck window be very patriotic.

          ***************************************
          DDS ……….And you call the non-union workers paying for all the perks the less productive workers in America FAIR !
          Sounds pretty abusing to me,,,

      • get right

        Mick, since all of you are against unions, do you realize how many types of people are in the unions? Airline employees, police, fireman, nurses, electricians, plumbers, drywall, painters, construction workers, Big eqipment operators, teachers, postal workers, janitors, ups, fed-ex, transportation, steel workers, miners, Oil production workers (like Todd Palin) and state government workers, the list goes on and on. Here is my question. JUST WHAT TYPE OF JOB IS ACCEPTABLE TO THE RADICAL RIGHT??? First you bitch about people not having jobs, then the don’t have the RIGHT KIND OF JOBS. You people are absoutely nutso!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Might as well ask, what type of Christians are the RIGHT ONES??

        • Mick

          get right says:
          March 4, 2011 at 8:33 pm
          Mick, since all of you are against unions, do you realize how many types of people are in the unions? Airline employees, police, fireman, nurses, electricians, plumbers, drywall, painters, construction workers, Big eqipment operators, teachers, postal workers, janitors, ups, fed-ex, transportation, steel workers, miners, Oil production workers (like Todd Palin) and state government workers, the list goes on and on. Here is my question. JUST WHAT TYPE OF JOB IS ACCEPTABLE TO THE RADICAL RIGHT??? First you bitch about people not having jobs, then the don’t have the RIGHT KIND OF JOBS. You people are absoutely nutso!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Might as well ask, what type of Christians are the RIGHT ONES??
          (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
          get right ………..
          So , are you saying that many of these jobs wouldn’t exist without unions ?
          There are limits in life and the unions have surpassed any reasonable lines,they became the typical icon for the old saying ‘ Give them a hand and they will take the whole arm “”
          They have become burdensome to the rest of the poor smucks in our society trying to make a living and have made the mockery of America’s standards by protecting the laze , the bad and the ugly.
          And what the hell does the union subject have to do with Christianity ?

          • smilee

            Mickey

            Why not join a union and raise your wages and benefits instead of being hell bent on bringing them down to your level. I think your jealous in that in the Private sector union members get an average of $800.00 a month more in wages and better benefits. Public union workers whom most have higher education do not get the equivalent in wages except in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho, they do do a little better that private employees in benefits but it is close to a wash with the private sector on the same jobs but those who hate unions will tell their lies to satisfy their biases. Few Union workers qualify for wage subsidizes in the form of earned income credits as a large percent of workers do today because of non union wages. Did you know that 43% of the income tax filers no longer make enough money to pay taxes and file solely for refund of withholdings and earned income credit a(wage subsidies). Some get as mush as $10,000 annually in free government refunds. That what the loss of union power in this country has created. GROW UP!!

  • Jim Carter

    As a Wisconsin tax payer, I’d like to know who is going to pay for the damages to the capitol building incurred during the union organized protest. I’m sure union leadership will deny any responsibility or ownership to the chaos. Again the taxpayer is punished for waste and abuse associated with brain dead “mob mentality” morons.

    • JeffH

      Jim, you’re correct…I heard, but not verified, that the damages are estimated to be in excess of $7 million. These union “protester” should have taken a page from the Tea Party groups who “clean up” their own messes.

      • bob wire

        OOps! somebody knock over a fern in a Pre Colombian pot?

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        jeffh, yep, they say the people that attended Becks 8/28 rally, even cleaned up after themselves!

        • get right

          Angel, you are wrong, the city of DC paid for the clean up and weren’t happy about it either. How can you people just make up things at every turn???

          • JeffH

            eyes, I suppose you can support that comment with something other than your word?

            National Mall Left Spotless After Beck Rally. Conservative values are good for the environment.
            http://www.breitbart.tv/national-mall-left-spotless-after-beck-rally/

          • JeffH

            Remember the liberals “One Nation” Rally on 10/2/10…slobs!
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZCWFBJ1nwA&feature=related

          • Curtis

            Of course Washington was spotless after the Tea Party Rally and all the Tea Party people cleaned up after themselves… that’s exactly why they all wear Depends.

          • libertytrain

            “get right” no proof – no link – ? Curtis – Leaving the reader to assume the young members of the left must just pee on the green?

          • Curtis

            Hahaha… no. It’s just that we don’t have bladder control issues.

          • libertytrain

            Perhaps not today or tomorrow, but my dear you too shall have such problems in time because time will not stand still for you either. And I still don’t see what Depends has to do with the ability to keep the grounds free of litter after their peaceful assembly and that your lack of Depends forces the left to be litterers. Didn’t your momma teach to clean up after yourselves?

          • libertytrain

            And sadly, just this very week I saw your gal, Whoopi pushing her incontinence product on TV because apparently time did not stand still for her in that department either. She’s a year younger than I and I’m still free of the need for those products. For now.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            get right, Lies really__hows about I belive a woman lost her wallet__people in front of this person heard them talking and turned around handed the person $400!__I can see a liberal being that generous_-in fact that very same thing happened to us about 20 years ago__

            I was doing an and out of state art show and that week, we were short on cash, the booth beside us was a dear older Christian man(imagine that)__ who over heard the oldman and I talking_-he asked if we’d watch his booth, til his return__He came back and handed us $200, turned out he lived about 20 minutes from us_-the next week went up and returned his gesture, and we became the best of friends until his death 9 years ago.

          • JeffH

            Angel Wannabe, I was involved in a similar exoerience back in the late 80′s. I was on a hunting trip to south eastern Washington. One of our guides forgot his wallet at his home in Yakima and was here for 3 days of guiding. He couldn’t pay for his romm and was faced with a 7 hour round trip to get his wallet. I lent him $300 bucks and two days after I got home there was a check in my mail box. That freindship stil exists today. Many times I have bought food for the homeless or passed a few bucks on to a homeless vet on the street. It’s called charity where I come from.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jeffh, “What goes around, comes around jeffH”, it has many times over , it happens both good and bad___Besides God also says, “he’ll give us double for our trouble”

  • nutz

    Lincoln, the man who centralized the government took freedom away from us and made the feral government our master? Read history neutrally many conclusions can be acquired.

    • Angel

      “feral government”? Hmmm…. A feral organism is one that has escaped from domestication and returned, partly or wholly, to a wild state.

    • bob wire

      I guess we could dig him up and give him a wedgie.

      Yes , you are right, much can be left to the imagination.

      We could have fanned ourselves out and been defeated by Mexico.

      We could be speaking Dutch.

      As it stands, today ~ one nation which permitted us to affect the world in a good way, I would like to think.

    • JC

      Lincoln was a stepping stone larger than most.
      But I go back to Alexander Hamilton as the originator of Federal largesse in the US. That rat should have been shot as a traitor by Washington when he had the opportunity.

  • Chris

    IN FLORIDA WE ARE A RIGHT TO WORK STATE AND NO STATE INCOME TAX

    • JC

      Really? John Flath (above) says you torture your workers…how can you afford it with no tax? ;)

  • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

    Chip:

    Good column. I am sick and tired of hearing about these leeches in the SEIU and their aminalistic behvior. Those senators should have had arrest warrants issued for them the day after their disappearance.

    If I had left my job because I did not like what my employer was going, or talking about doing, guess what? I would have been FIRED, TEMINATED, DISCHARGE!

    I think the govenor should have instructed the Capital Police to use high pressure water hoses and rubber bullets. I loved watching that technique used on the predecessors of these modern day magot infested, spoiled btats back in the 60s.

    Remember old man Daley? He was the one who had some stones, unlike that little weasle kid of his who sounds like he never got out of puberty. The old man knew how to handle scum like these wisconsin dead beats as demonstrated in 1968.

  • David

    I do believe there is a reason they called it public SERVICE. Unions have no place in government,even the lefts Demigod FDR said so. In the private sector that’s fine as long as no one minds paying way more for lower quality. Would you hire a maid, butler, or gardener and pay them more than you made??? I think not, at least I would hope not…!

  • patrick

    First of all, can’t the WI Govenor call in an emergency vote from the good politicans that are still there willing to work? There has to be a legal way around these terroristic threats from WI Liberal democrats? Also, Wisconsin’s neighbor, the State of Minnesota should start the same process Wisc. is doing. The new Gov’n, Dayton is trying to raise taxes and wants to spend more taxpayers money on their Liberal democratic entitlement programs when the State is in debt like many other states including Wisc. Dayton should also be impeached like Obammy boy and Eric Holder.

  • http://cox Richard E. Way

    Alot of long winded babbling, self serving. The pension and medical plan, is purely payola, creating a further deficit, and bankrupting the tax payers. Look what the unions did to the automotive industry, when cars would years ago cost $20,000, now $45,000, and not selling. Teachers produce idiots, fireman and police, are paid a generous salary. American soldiers that face life and death, to protect our country, receive little or no attention (no pension). These public employees, by choice, need nothing further. All states should adobt the same policy, the buc k stops here.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Right On Richard!!!

  • patrick

    Since Obammy boy is promoting the riots in Wisc. we should add that as yet another reason for Obammy’s impeachment. The Unions are using criminal extortion and threats to try to change the Republicans issue to save the State from bankrupcy. Why is NOT the liberal news media companies not bringing up to the attention of taxpayers what financial damages these actions have cost taxpayers? There are criminal acts being played out and nobody seems to be bringing them up, what’s the problem news media’s?

  • JR

    Facts are facts, and facts can never be changed or disputed. But the interpretation of facts is always in the eyes of the beholder and thus, we get articles that are slanted toward the agenda of the beholder who interpreted facts his way and support them with just enough half truth to keep the masses fired up. Isn’t politics….on either side…fun?

    I like coming to this side and others to see how much the human mind can be influenced.

    This site has 2 goals

    The first and foremost is making money by selling books, snake oil medicine and gold or silver to the sheep

    And second, to funnel the sheep into the coral where they then are taken to the slaughter house. To do that, the authors of the articles mix just enough facts and half truth together to sound good and mix just enough conspiracy in to capture and influence the minds of people that are already eager to be captured and corralled.
    This way they can be manipulated just like cattle or sheep and in the end, they will be like lemmings going over the cliff together. None of the lemming has enough willpower left to question and stop before falling of.
    Sadly, this is true for all political leanings and directions where people are just “”followers”" never question, always preaching to the like minded and behaving in a wolf pack mentality if someone question they’re actions.
    Is it a wonder that so few reach the top of the nation and become involved in the decision making? Nope, the few that do are very interested that the followers do just that…blindly follow.

    • Jeep

      JR, liberals like you are a stronge lot. You accuse conservatives/libertarians of sheeplike behaviour, and gripe at the first instance of bias from the contributors of this web site. Are you for real? What part of, majority of the libertarian posters on this (and, other) blog sites are free thinkers do you not understand? For the record, most of understand that FOX is conservative biased to some degree, we all know that CNN and HLN are liberal biased, we have a clear grasp that there are products being sold on this web site and above all we realize that not all of what is written or posted here as fact is, in fact true. We have this thing that it seems many liberals have forgotten how to use, its called a brain. We actually know how to google and fact check. But, more importantly we know how to draw our own conclusions.

      What we cannot grasp is the liberal mindset. In our “ideal” world each individual would be personally responsible for their own way through life. To succeed or fail based on our own individual merits. We recognize that govt does have a Constitutional role to protect our freedom to succeed or fail, but not a Constitutional mandate to guarantee outcome. And, this is where the fight begins. Liberals want to invade and confisctate by force the production of the people in order to guarantee that all are provided for. A lofty goal indeed. However, an unattainable and wholly un-Constitutional goal. The debate is not about socialism vs. capitolism, the debate is on how socialistic we are going to be. We have allowed liberals to institutionalize America to accept a number of socialistic ideas (social security, medicare, welfare, etc.) as “normal” and alturistic. But, the trend is finally reversing, the people want these things, but are finally realizing that someone has to pay for them. And, many Americans tired of paying. Liberals are not happy about that.

      • JR

        jeep,
        Hmm lets see, in last November, 41.5% of all registered voters voted.
        Of these, 78% of all registered Republicans, 24% of independents and 35% of all registered democrats voted.
        Guess what will happen in 2012 when the rest of the independent and democrats that the republicans so freely antagonize and piss of go out and vote. You think Walker is doing the will of the people? Nope, already 65% of the people in his state are against him..and the trend is going up. Isn’t it time everyone steps back, try to get of the temporary high they got in November and look at reality of what is happening?
        In 2012 will be when the real majority in this country will be heard.
        I already can see the whining on sites like this and the calls for a second revolution…..

        • Jeep

          Theft is theft…whether from the IRS, or the local thug down the street. Call it what you want…it’s still theft. To call govt workers “employees” is a complete misnomer. They are public servants. Period. They are paid from the collective coffers to perform a debateable function. They do not produce wealth, create jobs or otherwise contribute to the economy of this country. A teacher is a public servant and should realize that he/she is serving at the whim of the public. Do not twist my words, fire fighters, police, even teachers have function I am willing to pay for and I believe is necessary. However, public servants are not “designated” at birth to become a public servant. If one chooses to teach, then one should accept that you have chosen to serve at the mercy of the public. Cite all the polls you want, remember this chant when Oman got elected? “We won – get over it!” Go Walker and cut the budget!!!

        • Jeep

          BTW, is that the new liberal talking point, “Wait ’til 2012!” I seem to recall you clowns got thumped in 2010…But, now that the shoes on the other foot…grow up you moron.

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Virginia

          As I have said before, JR you are an Obama hack! Tell enough lies, you and your socialist comrades hope you can turn the tide of wisdom from REAL thinking, REAL people that search out the REAL truth about what is going on in the REAL world. Not delusional, warped thinking socialist dictatorship which you and your president think the world should be! We are no way the sheep you think we are. THE PEOPLE HAVE AWOKEN! WE SEE YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE! 2012 HERE WE COME! IF NOT BEFORE – IMPEACH OBAMA!

      • Lastmanstanding

        Well said Jeep. Just think if it was them paying for us!!! lol!

        • Jeep

          Thanks Last, isn’t the juxtaposition that libs find themselves in just delicious? Remember that during the healthcare debate they were all screaming, “The polls don’t matter!” Now suddenly polls DO matter…wow…and, didn’t I hear them crying, “Just pass it! We don’t care what’s in it!” Soooo, why do they care now?

        • bob wire

          Not too shabby jeep, ~ I didn’t get sick once!

          I see your picture.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      JR, how much the human mind can be manipulated, __ya, we know just like yours is!__No ones changing they’re minds here bud, but when ya get your wings and your lil, gold crown, come back we’ll have a beer and talk__Good Grief what a Load!!!!

    • Angel

      JR wrote:

      This site has 2 goals

      The first and foremost is making money by selling books, snake oil medicine and gold or silver to the sheep

      And second, to funnel the sheep into the coral where they then are taken to the slaughter house. To do that, the authors of the articles mix just enough facts and half truth together to sound good and mix just enough conspiracy in to capture and influence the minds of people that are already eager to be captured and corralled.

      ****************
      JR – you are my hero!

      • libertytrain

        Wonder what your agenda is -

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          libertytrain, they’re agenda is to stir the pot to see how many folks they can rile up___Pettiness, Nothing more and nothing new to add!

        • JeffH

          libertytrain, one could probably roll the dice to come up with the IQ’s of some of these liberals. If you repeat it enough does it becomes true?

  • Harold Olsen

    This is the sort of thing I’ve come to expect from Democrats (and one of the many reasons why I will never, ever vote for a Democrat at any level of government). If they don’t have a valid argument to give, they either scream racism or run and hide. They are a bunch of immature cowards. I don’t know if it will actually happen, but yesterday I heard that criminal charges may be filed against these cowardly Democrats. I didn’t hear the reason for the possible criminal charges but it may be because the taxpayers are paying for their “vacation.”

  • jopa

    Well did all you Fox news watchers really watch the news closely about Wisconsin.All those mean and nasty firefighters, police,teachers, snow plow drivers and secretaries,jumping up and down and pushing people.Then when the camera showed all the palm trees I had to say to myself “Oh that’s right this is Fox news.”Of all the towns and cities I have been to in Wisconsin I have never seen a palm tree on the shoreline or anywhere else.And you people still fall for their bogus information.

    • eddie47d

      Was that Stalin doctoring up the photographs to reflect his version of history. Fox just forgot to delete the palm trees or maybe they had Gov. Walker confused with the Sultan of Oman.

      • S.C.Murf

        FAST EDDIE, YOU SEE ONLY WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE AND HEAR ONLY WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR. WITH YOUR TUNNEL VISION AND YOUR NARROW MINDEDNESS YOUR KIND WILL LEAD THIS COUNTRY TO ITS END. DON’T TAKE JUST BITS AND PIECES OF A STORY AND REACH A CONCLUSION BUT RATHER READ IT ALL, LOOK AT EVERYTHING AND THEN AND ONLY THEN YOU CAN MAKE AN ADULT DECISION, HOPEFULLY.

        UP THE HILL
        AIRBORNE

    • JeffH

      Jopa, if you are wrong about O’Reilly’s palm tree scam would you apologize to the board? How about you eddie, would you apologize to the board for not knowing the facts also?

      Try this on for size and I’ll be checking back later.
      http://www.mediaite.com/tv/no-fox-news-did-not-lie-with-wisconsin-palm-tree-violent-protest-video/

      • Curtis

        Wow. Yes I urge EVERYONE to check out his link. Then scroll down to the first response by Lou Sarah who explains exactly how and why the “palm tree protest” clips were pure propaganda. Nice work JeffH! Hoisted on your own petard. You offer this link to support your argument and your own link shows how very, very wrong you are. Jeffie there’s more to research than just typing words into a Google search. And no… we’re not laughing with you… we’re laughing at you.

        • JeffH

          Curtis, it’s nice to see that you liberals all agree. Unlike you hacks, I actually look at the proof.

  • Stephan F.

    Very good Chip, nice piece!

    And as one who’s been waiting now for, oh about 30 years, for the proletariat to wake-up, it does the heart good to see that the average folks are FINALLY getting to the ‘heart of the matter’. Now that they’re realizing where their station in life has put them, it wont be too long before we’ll see the mother of all SHTF moments that I’ve been waiting for. This is going to get ugly, but it’ll sure be interesting!

  • MSSouth

    You just blather on with no solutions!!! Where are your solutions? Why don’t you collect donations to support this round the round of crap of ‘we will donate to your campaign to get you re-elected then you can pay us back by giving us more power so that we can donate to your campaign to get you re-elected so that you can pay us back’ It just goes round and round and round!!! And all the while the taxpayers are the real ones paying and paying and paying!!!

  • Freedom

    The infamous 14 Democrat loons have abandoned their Constituents, their State, and they are obstructing Democracy. If they could defend the position of the unions, and their need to retain bargaining power, these Democrats would have made their case! When they RUN and HIDE, they are making a Statement, but not the one they think…

  • RonP

    The 14 liberal Democratic members of the Wisconsin State senate are all acting like breast feeding babies and it’s about time they get off the nipple, grow up and start doing their job to “Save This Country” !!!
    OR
    If they can’t grow up then fire them and send them back to the nursery !!!

    • Karolyn

      But it would be OK if they were conservatives, right? And before you say, conservatives wouldn’t do that, think about it. If they were smart they just might. People love people who stand up for their or someone else’s rights.

  • Ed

    Thank you, J.R. I follow this website for the same reason you do, and what you describe is what logicians used to call “Sophistry,” how to argue so as to make the worse side look better. The author of this article is a master of the technique.

    A few weeks ago, right wing bloggers and pundits were screaming when threats were being made to eliminate Bush tax cuts for people making over $250,000 a year. Did people have any idea, they asked, how difficult it was to raise a family on a mere $250,000? These “poor people,” and here I quote, “had mortages to pay,” etc.
    Now these same pundits are vilifying public employees, especially teachers, for their greed over their $51,000 plus benefits wages. How dare these parasites (whom we depend on for our children’s education), with their Bachelor’s and Master’s degrees, many of whom are paying off college loans while also attending summer school and taking on-line advance courses to keep up with new developments in their fields, I repeat, how dare they expect to get higher salaries than the dishwasher in a local diner who is working for his G.E.D.? How dare they want some kind of job security or some control over their work environment?
    Public employees (nurses, firemen, police, and teachers, etc.) are not the ones who caused the recent economic meltdown, nor are they the ones who are continuing to refuse loans to small businesses or foreclose on middleclass homes. But they are the easiest and most vulnerable to attack. Everybody knows, after all, that “the easiest way to get rich is to become a teacher.”
    If people can’t figure out that Scott Walker is in the pocket of the Koch brothers, then they may deserve their fate, which will not be pretty. He has made it very clear that his goal is not to balance the budget, but to destroy the union, for which he will be richly rewarded as a good puppy dog for the big money interests, but he will destroy the State of Wisconsin.

    • Dale on the left coast

      Ed . . . in the pocket of the Koch bros???? You mean the Koch bros he doesn’t even know? Or are you referring to the fake loon that was on the phone?
      Didn’t Walker win the last election? So get over it . . . as the Bamster said in DC “we won”!!! Roll out your corrupt union thugs next election . . . I am sure the folks of WI will be wanting to turn the clock back to the days when the “Unions” negotiated with the Dimmicrap Politians they paid for with campaign donations . . .
      There should be NO Public sector unions . . . anywhere . . . its a scam to fleece the taxpayers.

      • Jeep

        What’s so upsetting is that, I believe this whole thing is just being paid for. The opposition in some of the recent national debates were mostly led by a true grassroots movement. This thing smells like “bussed” in thugs. Do these people have jobs? Or, are they hired hands? Our protests and rallies were usually one day affairs, you know, because most of us have real jobs and lives. How can all these people afford to spend so much time sleeping in the capitol building? I just would like to know…

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Virginia

          JEEP- THOSE SUPPOSEDLY TEACHERS ON STRIKE-The majority of the people there, are paid union and ACORN hacks bussed from different states. There was an email from the Acorn head that went out to all of their listed members the minute they knew what Gov. Walker was proposing. He said they would march in every state that did anything similar to what Gov. Walker is doing.

          • Jeep

            Virginia, I’ve heard that too…so, who is going to expose this?

          • Karolyn

            And you heard this where? The conservative grapevine?

          • http://deleted Claire

            I have many many relatives in Wisconsin, they have told me that they are unaware that outsiders have been brought in–and a number of my relatives have been protesting. So who do I believe? My relatives.

      • Ed

        Well, it wasn’t I who was punked by the caller. It was Scott Walker, who was so anxious to suck up to the man he thought was David Koch, that he spent nearly twenty minutes on the phone with him gloating over his “brilliant” strategy. Then, when the caller was trying to sign off, Walker had to get in one last story in which he placed himself in the tradition of Ronald Reagan, who fired the air traffic controllers to destroy that union. That little story showed that Walker’s intention was not to balance the budget but to destroy unions.
        I repeat. You can complain all you want about overpaid teachers, but you better not be supporting overpaid CEOs and multimillion dollar bonuses to Wall Street hacks for simply doing what they were hired to do — and then doing it so badly as to collapse the economy of the whole nation.
        Back in what we now call the “gilded age,” the 1890s, J.P. Morgan said that the appropriate differentiation between the wages of the highest paid CEO of a corporation and the lowest paid worker was 25 to 1. Today we are seeing a ratio of roughly 500 to 1. That puts us on a par with some of the worst dictatorships in the world. Doesn’t that make you question our economic value system even a little?

    • JC

      Security is an illusion at best. And fair is a concept of children and communists.

      • Curtis

        Oops. I don’t really have a comment for JC, but I’m so used to Facebook I thought I was clicking the “LIKE” button. You’re absolutely right…

  • Conservative at Birth

    Who is John Galt? That is all I have to say.

    • Bob

      To learn about John Galt, read “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand. It is good reading and tells the truth about government and liberals.

      • bob wire

        Ayn Rand writes fiction novels. ~ very powerful fiction novels and she was a delightfully sick puppy.

  • Bob

    The best thing that could happen to America would be to do away with public education and the teacher’s unions. Each family would then be given a voucher to send their children to the private school that best meets their needs. These schools could not be any worse or any more expensive than what we have today. After that, we could begin dismantling the rest of the government to the point where it serves only those purposes for which it was formed rather than playing Big Mother and providing for the worthless parasites of government and those on welfare.

    • DaveH

      Right on, Bob.

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    So the democraps are AWOL to avoid votes on sensible legislation to keep unions in line. It would be great if all the drones, moochers and other naïve democrap voters would take off on vacation and stay away from the polls on election days in November!! As for the AWOL democraps, why will they have jobs to go back to?? Not long ago I worked for a large retailer. If you were a no show/no call for 3 consecutive scheduled days, they would assume you resigned. At that point, you could only go back to pick up your final pay check. It would be great if the voters of these states could treat these travelling democraps in the same way. After 3 days, they should just have special elections to replace the AWOL politicians, and hopefully replace them with a party other than the socialist democrap party!!

  • Angel

    It’s time to get ready for 2012:
    Scott Walker for President; Michele Bachmann for VP!!!

    • Karolyn

      Shoot me now!

    • http://deleted Claire

      Surely you jest.

    • Bill

      Neither one of these people can garner 50+ million votes to beat BHO! He got 52 million votes in 2008 and most of those will vote for him again. Plus he has added thousands to the welfare roles and medicaid to buy their votes!

  • busterggi

    Hey all you folks putting down unions – do you like having days off? paid holidays?, paid vacations?, paid sick time? guarranteed wages? because you’d have none of those if unions hadn’t fought for them first.

    Ungrateful hypcrites.

    • Bob

      You forgot to add high prices, political corruption, violence, unemployment, low quality, low productivity, disappearing industries, gangsterism, and the rest of the things that go along with unions. Unions are evil, they are ruining America, and those who support them should be deported to Cuba or China where they will be happy with their fellow communists.

      • busterggi

        Funny how there was no squakking about the high prices until jobs started getting shipped overseas so virtual slave labor could lower costs for the corporation.

        Or poor quality either – maybe you don’t remember when foreign made meant junk pretty much across the board – again until the corporations outsourced overseas.

        Violence? Like the corporate hired thugs that shot striking workers down?

        Corruption – well that certainly didn’t exist before unions did it?

        I wish you righties would learn a little real history as opposed to FoxNews history.

        • Bob

          You are a liberal liar and denier. The simple fact is union labor is lazy, incompetant, and expensive labor and union memebers are a greater threat to this country than any muslim terrorist.

          • Karolyn

            How can you possibly make such a sweeping eneralization? That’s one of the problems with conservatives; they paint whole populations with the same brush.

          • Bill

            Do I hear AMEN!!

          • http://deleted Claire

            You know, I resent the comments that all union workers are lazy. My son is a damn good employee, he works overtime and takes work home, he draws blueprints at home. Does he get paid extra?? Hell no!! He wants to get the work done!! He does the work of 2-3 people. And by gosh, I will stand up for my son, come hell or high water. I wouldn’t be much of a person if I did not stand up for my son. So say what you will, I am to the point that I am sick and tired of all the comments that all union people are lazy. Well, by damn, my son is not lazy. I know plenty of people that are lazy as hell and do not belong to a union.

          • libertytrain

            Claire – you are absolutely correct. Not all union people are lazy and all non-union folks have amongst them some lazy folks. There’s always going to be lazy. And there will always be a collection of people that work their buns off.

          • http://deleted Claire

            libertytrain– Thank you for your comments. Tim works his ass off for IDOT. He has been doing work at home for many years, just to get the projects done on time. He has deadlines to meet. Another item I will mention although maybe I shouldn’t–there have been several guys that have gotten DUIs and they were let go! And they were union!

        • JC

          One of the reasons manufacturing went overseas was “Unions”.
          Greedy, manipulative, incompetent, work to rule “Unions”.
          Thanks a lot for being part of that. You have no idea how much you are appreciated for helping to seperate us from our manufacturing base.

          • http://deleted Claire

            JC–And taxes drove them out. Now that tax credits have been give to corporations does this mean they will be hiring? Will corporations/companies keep their businesses here in the U.S. instead of continuing to go overseas?

          • get right

            Claire, no, they have had low taxes since 2001 and 2/3 don’t even pay any taxes, and there haven’t been any increases in jobs during that time.

          • JC

            Claire and get right…
            I think that all corporations are psychopathic in nature.
            The goal being to maximize profits no matter what!
            Fair enough, they shouldn’t have to go to China to do that.
            They can do that right here…provided that there is NO Government involvement, NO Judicial involvement in the way they do, or don’t get to carry out business. Throw in a system of Justice to replace Cronyism that puts Politicians in jail for accepting bribes and CEO’s in jail for doing environmental damage etc, eliminate lobbying …you get the picture, and things would be a little different I think.

          • http://deleted Claire

            JC–I agree with you 100% The problem is that practically all policitians would end up in jail. The majority of them do accept bribes, and cater to the lobbyists. The old “scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” mentality has always been in existence, and is still rampant. Every politician has their method of madness. The GOP goes after the Dems’ agendas, and vice versa. They are out to destroy each other and the sad fact is Americans continue to pay the price.

          • DaveH

            Get Right,
            where do you get your misinformation from? The United States have higher corporate tax rates than most of our economic competitors.
            Read here to learn more:
            http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/22917.html

      • Mick

        Bob says:
        March 4, 2011 at 11:05 am
        You forgot to add high prices, political corruption, violence, unemployment, low quality, low productivity, disappearing industries, gangsterism, and the rest of the things that go along with unions. Unions are evil, they are ruining America, and those who support them should be deported to Cuba or China where they will be happy with their fellow communists.

        ***************************************
        Bob says:
        …..Excellent observations but you don’t honestly expect the union thumpers to mention those facts much less admit to them, do you……..

    • Angel

      Good point, buster. You realize the next goal of the corporations is to get rid of some of those things as well: having days off; paid holidays; paid vacations; paid sick time; guaranteed wages, etc.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Angel, the Corporations ( yeah the ones we work for??) aren’t liable to give you anything BUT A DAYS WAGE. What makes you think YOUR ENTITLED TO ANYTHING MORE?_-They’re the Boss, NOT YOU!

        • Angel

          Just because you work for a corporation and have sold your soul to them (or rather gave it willingly), doesn’t mean the rest of us have. Corporations fought the 40-hour work week, child labor laws, health and safety standards, pay for personal time (vacation and/or sick days), break time during the workday, and on and on. You may oppose these things as well – it appears that you do – but the vast majority of working Americans do not.

          So: go ahead – insert your petty insult here. Your corporate masters expect nothing less.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Angel, you guys are good at twisting shyte!___ when ya work for someone ELSE “they’re the boss”!, they pay you!_-They get to call the shots, and if ya don’t like how your treated, YOU CAN CRY ALL YA WANT, either bone up or make like a tree and leave!!!!_Ya ain’t nothing special honey_-get over it, Neither are the Public Sector!!_-Unions at one time were needed, they’ve out grown they’re usefulness and are corrupt. and frankly were tired of paying the public sectors way, let’em pay they’re own way__ JUST LIKE WE DO!

          • JC

            Go find your soul on your own time.

          • Bill

            That kind of BS is why we have unions running the government, education, car companies, sports, and financing the mob.

          • get right

            Bill, there are only 15 million union workers, unless they are all in political positions, ha, ha, your statement doesn’t hold water.

        • Karolyn

          Yeah, it’s too bad more of them don’t notice that the better they treat their employees, the more work they get out of them.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Hmm, let me see our son works for a “non-union” shop_Runs large construction equipment__he gets paid holidays, paid vacation and bennies, at the Company Christmas Party, the onwer, put up thousands of dollars of equiptment for raffle_-our son won a husvarna chain saw,
            worth around $400__others prizes included $500 cash, wood chippers, gift certificates at Sears, Lowes and on and on__My Brother?__same thing 35 at non union tool shop___ya don’t need to be Union, to have a good owner, thats treats his employees right, you’ve been indoctrinated to believe you do!

      • Karolyn

        Oh, I’m sure they would love to have it the way it was back in the 30s! Then they could make even MORE money.

    • DaveH

      We would have more money, more days off, if Union Thugs weren’t coercing Employers to pay them more than they’re worth, thus causing the rest of us to pay more for our products and services, and also forcing us to lose jobs that have been driven overseas by Greedy Liberals.

  • cat

    Well as a true conservative i have to disagree We the People should not be tricked into losing the only power against the big corporations we have. the more unions grow the more our wages stay within in the range of inflation. If we lose the unions then we the People will not be able to even survive in this high price and low wage generation of vipers that will overpower us until we become the the immigrants leaving America and looking to other lands for opprotunities. Kepp Americans strong Support Unions and regain our position as the power in our own land because freedom and liberty depends on our WE The Peoples welfare not the welfare of the corporations.

    • JC

      As a true conservative? Ok….

      As a true conservative you might consider advocating against Government and Corporate Interests…being the same interests.
      Corporations couldn’t possibly behave as they do without the support of Government and the Judiciary.
      As a true conservative you might have observed that our (sovereign) economy is manipulated by a group of International bankers hiding behind the Federal Reserve Banner. They’re not Federal and they have no Reserves. maybe we should get rid of the countrfeit money system.
      As a true conservative you might have noticed the Unions have become a political entity, usually backing the left. And you think they’re a good idea?

      As a true conservative, I have to question your calling yourself a true conservative. Which is not an attempt to insult you, it’s just food for thought for you. If you want to be a true “American” conservative, you might want to wrap some thinking around our founding principles and start from there.

      JC

      • JeffH

        JC, very well said.

      • Bill

        JC you have no idea what you are talking about! You do have a vivid imagination, however.

        • JC

          Well said…my credibilty has been destroyed by your articulate well rounded and fact based comment….umm what were you talking about again?

      • get right

        Jc, those founding principles included taxation, the ability of individuals to band together for their own benifit, and they warned us many times about corporations and Banks having too much power. Obviously you haven’t read enough about those principles have you??

        • JC

          Wrong! Taxation was brought about by Hamilton and his Central Bank, it was NOT in the Constitution and it was the cause of the Whisky Rebellion in Pennsylvania. And Hamilton should have been hung as a traitor. Try again moron?

  • JohnnyK

    I think that workers in Wisc. should call for a general strike and shut the state down.

    • Bob

      I wouldn’t care one bit if they all walked off the job tomorrow – we who are real workers could fill the gap pretty quick. I could probably do the work of a least two union slugs. Why don’t all you union scum quit and then starve to death; America would be better off without you.

  • PiggySue

    I think you republican voters had been duped by the right-wing elites — they enriched themselves at the expense the little people(dems and reps alike). The question is: When are you all gonna wake up and stop supporting the right-wing agenda against your own interest? Anyway, if you blindly and stupidly continue to support them, then you’re certainly on the wrong side. Because the masses will take care of these elite bastards and their republican minions, such as Scott Walker and the like. I’m telling you and warning you, and just see what will happen! Because the right-agendas and policies have destroyed this country and impoverished the common people, and they don’t like it at all — and seething for retribution!

    • Average Joe

      I think you Democrat voters had been duped by the left-wing elites — they enriched themselves at the expense the little people(dems and reps alike). The question is: When are you all gonna wake up and stop supporting the left-wing agenda against your own interest? Anyway, if you blindly and stupidly continue to support them, then you’re certainly on the wrong side. Because the masses will take care of these elite bastards and their republican minions, such as Harry Reid and the like. I’m telling you and warning you, and just see what will happen! Because the left-agendas and policies have destroyed this country and impoverished the common people, and they don’t like it at all — and seething for retribution!

      • Average Joe

        *I missed one….Because the masses will take care of these elite bastards and their democrat minions,

    • JC

      “Go Libertarian” is my answer to that Sue.

  • MJR

    I Live in Wisonsin and I don’t work for the state. Actually I’m unemployed and starting to wonder why I can’t do your job Chris? Actually all it takes is bias and alot of imagination to take the minute truth everyone knows and twist it. All I’ve seen of Republicans and their power house affiliates is their only ability….to sell a silk purse made out of a sows ear.

    Jovianus post is 100% right on. Their was no Violence by marchers and NO I’ve yet to see a Palm Tree grow in this State so much for Fox Storytelling calling it “News”.

    The problem we have in this state that even Republican voters are beginning to admit to here is that we put a dictator in office of Governor. I have a friend who voted for him…now she says yeah I didn’t know I was voting for Hitler. As another editorialist here who tends to side with Republican views said. This Governor has done nothing but make this state the embarssement of the nation with his handling. Walker is the best thing to ever happen to the Democratic party…Every time he speaks/takes action he looses another Republican consideration. Now that Walker is quote frustrated with thsi issue” Despite the State Union workers agreeing to all the cuts save their future wage bargaining power he is proceeding with the layoffs anyway. Here’s my budget plan and it better be followed to the letter,no I do not think I need to waste time discussing it or listening to anyone who doesn’t agree with me, Yes we were thinking of planting troublmakers because the marchers were too peaceful and it’s making me look bad. I’m shutting down the capital building to the public And suddenly theirs a rumer they found ammo shells in the building halls and damages to the building.which now will cost millions to reapir…why because of the tape marchers used to put up their posters. None of which existed till the court ruled in favor of the public having access to the captial building. Guess Walker rethought that troublemaking plant thing. Our Democratic Senators left because that’s all they can do to stop a dictator from dictating without any consideration of it’s people.(Those that would question him …that is). And the Ego maniac is putting warrants of arrest on the Senator? Real, Real black and white simple ALL Every bit of this could have been avoided had we had a Governor who was about democracy rather then dictatorship. All he had to do was allow those to voice and address their concerns of his proposal and the only only thing there was ever a disagreement about was the future wage bargaining power being removed. Spin it any way you want to make it look…. but this Governor has a God complex Wisconsin can’t afford to to govern and it’s not just Democrats that are seeing it here.

    • Firefly

      I’m sorry but what your governor has is principles. He said what he was going to do and the people of Wisconsin hoped he would and voted for him. Now that he is doing what he said, those who depend on soaking taxpayers can’t believe he really meant it. They thought he was just another politician. Maybe he can save Wisconsin but if not your children and grandchildren are going to know a poverty you can’t even imagine. Sad, really sad. Lucky for you the president has given those who prefer not to work – excuse me, can’t find work – up to three years unemployment. We will all pay for that with 50% inflation and all will suffer for the few. There are twice as many unemployed in this country than there are union members but that will end too. I overheard a conversation yesterday about someone who got a good job with the union because he inherited it from his dad. We don’t have dukes and earls and barons here but we do have the unions. To bad for me, my dad wasn’t in one. Those who prefer getting laid off in Wisconsin rather than stop soaking the taxpayers can now get unemployment for years. I know of someone who enjoyed that lifestyle for years in California, living on the beach, but she eventually grew up, and got off the goverment plantation. It will be interesting to see if the people of great state of Wisconsin can do as well.

      • http://deleted Claire

        I think that if Walker had told the people of Wisconsin EXACTLY what he was going to do about the unions, the union people would not have voted for him.

    • get right

      MJR, you are right on target. Maybe Gov. Scott sent those palm trees. This is the second time Walker tried this crap. Hope your state holds firm. I will pray for you to get a job. God Bless you.

  • DaveH

    Probably the proposal that is going to cause the most upset with those Union thugs in Wisconsin is that to expand the voucher system to include all students.
    http://blog.heritage.org/2011/01/12/voucher-students-soar-in-milwaukee/

  • RealAmerican

    I am all for free public schools and professional teachers. They have been a part of our history since the Puritans. The fact is public investment works, we get a great return for a small investment. The problem is the money being siphoned off at the top. Exxon, Bank of America and Mobil didn’t pay any federal income tax last year, but they used roads, police, firefighters, public school educated employees that we pay for. In the case of B of A, they also sold hundreds of billions of bad debt to the Federal Reserve bank which ultimately is back by us. I am tired of giant corporations sucking off the government teat, while sending our jobs oversees. Now they are trying to destroy thousands of good American jobs, so more American families will slip into poverty. 20% of American kids already live in poverty. Enough is Enough! Time to take our country back. That’s why I support the public employees in Wisconsin.

    I know a lot of posters here are libertarians and want small government. Citizens United guarantees there will never be a small government because it gives large corporations unlimited power to elect politicians who will do their bidding and corporations want the government to borrow money and give it to them. It’s that simple. Start fighting for the middle class. Get corporate money out of politics. Tax the rich banksters who stole public money. Demand transparency in government. Break up the corporate media cartel and get back our public airways.

    • Firefly

      The trouble with free is you get what you pay for if it’s truly a free market system but if it’s run by progressive socialists and unions you get what they choose and you pay more for it than you would otherwise. You complain about the big corporations but they pay either the highest or the second highest taxes in the world here in the USA. No wonder they go to other countries where they can keep more of what they earn. You say you are tired of big corporations sucking up to the government but we have the cheapest goods of quality in this country than anywhere else. And how are the public employees who suck up the money that taxpayers make any more righteous than corporations. It’s screw the middle class and take all the tax we can get. Unionized states have much higher taxes than those who don’t and property taxes are many times more in states controlled by unions than in right-to-work states. I have a hunch you don’t pay taxes and calling yourself a RealAmerican doesn’t make you one. You sound an awful lot like a socialist to me. There was a time when unions were needed but they have become like the government, out of control. I support the middle class although I don’t quite make enough to qualify myself but I don’t want unions taking away what I work for any more than the next guy. Have you every heard of a person retiring to the north? No, you work in the north, absorb all you can at the public troth and then move south so you can live high off the hog. If I had realized how how profitable public service was I might have gone into it myself. We will never have ‘transparency in government’ no way, no how, and anyone who promises we will is either ignorant or lying. What party they belong to is irrelevant as far as that goes. Perhaps you are very young and if so, I apologize. It takes years of hard living to come to understand how things really work but we will soon be at the end of ‘soak the middleclass’ because no one is going to have money.

    • Bob

      And prepare for the Marxist utopia where will we all hold hands as good little proles and sing the “Internationale”, right? Big government is bad government, people who want big government are bad people.

      • JeffH

        Bob, very good. “Internationale” LOL!

        • bob wire

          People that make sweeping assessment and general judgments with little more information then the word “big” are a danger to themselves and anyone near.

          Exactly How big, ~ is big? and who is to decide? and how is it decided? By dollars? by people employed? by the square miles, foot or yard?

          let’s face it, Just saying big is bad ~ is actually a very dumb thing to say.

          I use to be small and everything appeared “BIG” now I’m big and things seem to have diminish in size.

          Have you ever noticed thing get smaller the farther away that you are.

          The moon is only the size of my thumb nail yet I know it’s much larger.

          Watch me get small as I way away!

          So “big” need to be defined if we are to conclude people that like big government are bad and we wish to know who they are, to subject them to scoff, scorn and general contempt.

          I’m glad we had this nice chat.

      • JC

        And the proles will come dancing gaily dressed from the hills in their hand painted potato sacks to stand in line for bread…
        That’s as nice a picure of communism as I can paint. ;)

      • Karolyn

        Ooooh! “BAD people! BAD people!” Now go stand in the corner!

    • bob wire

      “I’m sorry but what your governor has is principles.”

      Is that what you call them? “Principals”

      Okay! His approach to these “principals” needs work!

      • get right

        bob wire, home schooling didn’t work for him. LOL

  • Average Joe

    Can someone please point out to me where in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or Declaration of Independence that it says we have “Collective bargaining rights”? I keep looking for that clause and can’t seem to find it…
    Collective bargaining….isn’t that like saying…I want this pay and these benefits from you or….I’ll bring in my homies and mess you up…We’ll stop all work and prevent you from replacing us until we get our way….and you call this a “Right”?If so, you have some serious issues with reality….This is called “Mob mentality/Thuggery”
    If I am an employer, I have the right to hire anyone I choose, pay whatever wages and benefits that I consider to be fair and to fire anyone that I consider detrimental to my company’s prosperity…..You as the prospective employee, you have the right…to accept my terms or work elsewhere…period….those are the only “rights” you have…to choose to work for me on my terms…or work elswhere. End of story!
    “COLLECTIVE BARGAINING RIGHTS”….What a bunch of HORSE SPIT!

    • get right

      Average Joe, ask the NFL why they have collective bargining for those millionaire players….oops, go ask the players why they need collective bargining.

  • http://foundersrevolution.blogspot.com/ Patriot1776

    do any of you have jobs?

    • Average Joe

      Yup…Self Employed, sole proprietor…hoping to expand in the future…if I’m not regulated and taxed to death….

      • bob wire

        I don’t work hard, as an independent contractor, I see that others do and stay busy. I am regulated, taxed and insured to the hilt. I administrate, pay bills, coordinate, and create legal and binding documents that reflect transactions and intent.

        But I understand the nature of your question, I believe many here are retired and have a lot of spare time on their hands to watch the news and stay glued to their PC. Political discourse is addictive and everyone has an opinion.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      p, nahhh, we just sit on here all day and b*tch__how about you?

      • Sam

        Well, truer words were never spoken. At least you admit it. Noisy egotists who never do anything constructive are evactly why we have a president that won’t even document where he was born, or obey the laws and courts.

    • barbm

      yep, got to work at 7, home by 11. i worked for almost 50 years for my social security check too. how ’bout you bucko, nothing better to do than defend unions?

      • http://foundersrevolution.blogspot.com/ Patriot1776

        Nope, I just got laid off Thanks to the centrally planned economy and and manufactured bubbles. Can’t stand Unions! Especially in the public sector. I am not one who buys the BS taht there was a time when we needed them either. I believe that people have a right to form a union if they so wish. But the employers also have a right to tell the union to go &@#$ themselves! Private property is paramount and risk taking is a part of life. I was just curious. Need a job.

        • barbm

          try ebay. nobody wants to hire an old broad like me, so i started my own ebay business. and there are no taxes. texas is getting ready to pass a law requiring taxes be paid for on-line sales, but they excluded ebay. the feds have left us alone too. i have to go out and find merchandise, but i get to do the rest from home. well, except for shipping twice a week.

  • Joe

    It should be clear by now that you can’t trust anyone in either party. They bounce you back and forth every year and laugh up their sleves as they do it. If we had true fiscal responsibility in Washington to start with, then people wouldn’t mind giving in a little to help out the country. There is no attempt to end earmarks or Lobbyists, which cost billions of dollars. Everything that Washington screws up, the tax payer ends up with the debt. Politicans all over the country vote each other unbelievable monitary packages that they don’t talk about.Are they giving anything up??? Hell No. They are actually giving out more raises to their constituants. ( Buddys )
    Washington will never get serious about balancing the budget because both parties want Socialism. They are all in bed together. This is just the republicians turn to piss us off and run us back to the Democrats. Back and forth we go and things just keep getting worse.

  • catfish

    Publish these union employees salaries and total compensation, then you will have a true picture of what is happening. Collective bargaining is the reason for these crazy compensation packages. At 67 years old, I am surprised this bubble has lasted this long. Folks, the jig is up.

  • JeffH

    This is just for those liberals hammering FOX and Bill O’Reilly over the Palm Trees…This from your own Daily Kos…Bill O’Reilly vindicated: Palm trees are right in the middle of Wisconsin protests.

    It turns out we were wrong to jump all over Bill O’Reilly for smearing Wisconsin protesters with file footage featuring palm trees in the background. It turns out that there not only palm trees in Wisconsin, they are right in the middle of the protest itself. Proof:
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/03/952252/-Bill-OReilly-vindicated:-Palm-trees-are-right-in-the-middle-of-Wisconsin-protests?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos%29

    • Biff

      Jeff? I think you’re missing the joke. Those are FAKE palm trees that are mocking Bill O’Reilly. It does nothing to exonerate the hoax perpetrated by Fox News. You’re kidding right?

      • JeffH

        Biff, DUH!

        In the 43-second clip that’s being linked to on YouTube, it does look like Fox News lied, but watching the entire segment for context makes it clear that they did not. Bill O’Reilly was discussing the anger in the union protests. At the top of the piece, he rolled footage of a number of the “union thug” videos that have become so popular on Right Wing news sites in the past few weeks. O’Reilly clearly identified the videos as collectively coming from “all over the country.” As many shows do, this B-roll footage was replayed again during the rest of the segment, including during an interview with Mike Tobin, Fox News’ reporter who’s been on the ground in Wisconsin.

        Here’s where the problem occurred. Tobin was discussing Wisconsin (since that where he’s been) while the general footage played in the background. Taken out of context, these few seconds would seem deceptive. But, if you’d already seen the full segment, you’d recognize what the footage was.

        Further, the protest footage from Wisconsin is clearly labeled “Madison” as well as date and time stamped, while the “palm tree footage” is labeled “Union Protests.” Confusing? Not really, though if one were to simply see the 43-second clip on YouTube, one could reasonably raise their eyebrows.
        http://www.mediaite.com/tv/no-fox-news-did-not-lie-with-wisconsin-palm-tree-violent-protest-video/

        • Firefly

          Jeff, don’t explain. They don’t want facts. They want to hate who they hate. Facts only confuse them. Screw the taxpayer and take all you can. It’s the new American way. Don’t lose any sleep over it. If Americans are so stupid to put up with this much longer they will all be hungry in a few years. Some people want to learn and some can’t learn. Maybe when they are really hungry???

          • JeffH

            Firefly, it’s best to present facts to liberals because it shuts them down. Liberals can’t deal in reality.

        • Biff

          Joe… this is from the website you posted, check the first response from K.O. :
          “The writer is arguing that if you already knew that the video wasn’t from Wisconsin, why, then, when you saw it, you’d know the video wasn’t from Wisconsin! That, is the entire point: if I did a segment on O’Reilly’s personal life and showed video of hookers, porn stars, and falafels, with the label “Things Men Cheat With,” the idea would be to compensate for the fact that there is no such video of O’Reilly nor any video evidence connecting him to those people or things. The “Palm Tree” video was run so it could mitigate against the fact that there has not been violence in the Wisconsin protests.

          It is an essential element of propaganda, and Mr. Berstad’s piece renders him the most naive of some pretty gullible folks at a site that has been as unsuccessful as understanding how television works as its founder was, or as a pure – albeit not very good – Fox apologist.

          He might as well have argued that the video was appropriate because some time in the ancient past – and perhaps with climate change, again in the near future – Wisconsin actually had some palm trees.”

        • Biff

          Joe… You should also understand what “B Roll” is and how it is used. B-roll is usually filmed at or around THE SAME TIME at THE SAME LOCATION. The same rules apply for voice-overs. The rules of journalism and journalistic ethics should still apply to Bill O’Reilly… even IF he is just a news-entertainer. I still don’t understand why you’re not mad as hell at these deceptive practices?

          • JeffH

            Biff, are you drunk, high or what? Joe? Mad? Hope it was worth it and have one on me.

  • MJR

    Ed you have summed it all up beautifully and accurately. Anyone who can’t see what is going on in the rich getting richer, the poor poorer must have taken the droid commercial to another level, they are droid. I don’t know what worries me more the government or the gullable people who don’t think or wonder Why would Fox News parade Wisconsin residents in the midst of Palm trees. No ma, the suns shining and of course the voice of truth by right wingers is beyond questioning. Works for Walker his door is always open …as long as you agree with him and not ask questions.

  • CJM

    Unions have out-lived their usefulness and there is no reason on earth that they should be permitted to continue their existence. Furthermore, union history is fraught with violence and I am old enough to have witnessed those violent actions. When teachers and other public workers were given the right to unionize, the greatest mistake in history was made. All unions should be banned. All States should have the right to work laws in the event banning unions is deemed “impossible.” Furthermore, union dues should be barred from enhancing any politician’s (or candidate for public office) coffers. If unions want to continue their existence, then strict laws governing them should be on our law books and STRICTLY ENFORCED.

  • JeffH

    Why are the liberals spreading the lies that Walker plans a “handout in special-interest spending to his corporate pals” in particular, Koch Industries, thus creating the “Budget Crisis”? Why, because they have no other ammunition to draw from but lies, rumors and inuendoes…that’s what Alinsky taught and that’s what the good communists do. The anti-communist, anti-Soros Koch boys are the latest target for the left joining everyone else that doesn’t buy into the Marxist’s ideals.

    Those so called “special interest” tax breaks include making health savings accounts tax-deductible, giving tax deductions to businesses that relocate to the state, and providing tax exclusions for hiring new employees. Far from being a $117 million handout to the Koch’s. Looks more like Walker’s trying to lure businesses into Wisconsin and put people to work. By the way, those tax breaks won’t take effect until the next budget.

    Walker and Wisconsin has some serious budget issues to face. Estimates say the state is facing anywhere from a $3.1 billion to $3.6 billion deficit in the upcoming two-year budget cycle.

    States like California, Nevada and Arizona are in far worse shape than Wisconsin. To wait until the dam breaks isn’t the way to fix the fiscal problems. It takes someone with some foresight and guts to make the bold moves that Gov. Walker and Governors from a few other states are now proposing to stop the leak and start the repairs before the dam breaks. With all of the economic issues American’s are faced with…I just don’t see how hard it is to understand that serious sacrifices have to be made by all…ALL!
    http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_90196216-3b66-11e0-a327-001cc4c03286.html

    • eddie47d

      How much of your retirement check are you giving up Jeff? Are sacrifices made by some but not by others. How much is Gov. Walker giving up?

      • JeffH

        …”And so the guided questioning goes on…. Every weakness of every proposed tactic is probed by questions…. Is this manipulation? Certainly….”

        • eddie47d

          How about answering the question instead of the usual gibberish?

          • JeffH

            eddie, I don’t answer your stupid questions…they’re meaningless and it’s none of your business anyway. Why is it so important for you liberals to stick your nose into someone elses personal lives? Never mind, I know the answer.

            Answer: because that’s what liberal(commies)do

          • eddie47d

            You want to know what everyone elses business is and what they make.Since you are so concerned about workers in Wisconsin and think everyone is a commie thief.So what sacrifices are you making to the great state of California?

          • JeffH

            eddie, it’s only you liberals that stick teir noses into others business. Tell me the sacrifices you are making and maybe I might answer your question. Otherwise, my private life has never been the business of someone else unless I volunteer the information, in other words…it ain’t none of your business.

          • eddie47d

            People who say it is none of your business and then poke their noses into other persons business is ,well, a hypocrite. My retirement check took a hit in health and taxes so pony up Jeff.

          • JeffH

            eddie, you own a mirror?

      • get right

        eddie, he is not retired. He gets disability from government.

        • JeffH

          eyeswideopen, baaaaaaaaaaaaaa, baaaaaaaaaaaaaa, baaaaaaaaaaa!

  • Sam

    Another round of sound and fury signifying nothing from the usual blow hards. Wiscons has been and still is a hard core liberal state. They have fed at the taxpayer trough for decades. Suddenly somebody jumped up and said WHOA – no more credit! You can’t pay back what you have borrowed (stolen) up to now, how do you propose to pay for any additiobnal debt. Well, uh, ah, oh — we’ll just get a “bail out” After all it’s FREE money from Mr. Obama! Yet, when the new governor suggests some minor concessions to stall the problem, all hell breaks loose. The union thugs move in, children are used as props, and Obama is outraged!! Some watered down adjustments will be made Fed aid will pou in and life in Liberal Land wil continue as before.

    • Karolyn

      Can you people stop using that word “trough”. It’s really getting old!

      • http://deleted Claire

        Karolyn- You will just have to come up with a new word.

      • DaveH

        I can’t think of a more appropriate image for people sucking off the Government teat. Oink, Oink.

  • DaveH

    For the fence straddlers:
    Keep in mind that those Unionized Government Workers work for us. Every dollar they extract from the politicians comes from us.
    The Unions use their members’ dues to lobby hard for the politicians of their choice (of course those that will support Unions’ coercive ways). If we sit apathetically by, and allow them to get just a little more powerful we are doomed to be their slaves. You need to do everything in your power to support those brave politicians that are making an effort to reign them in.

    • bob wire

      I’d join some union and paid due if it would have kept 43 out of politics!

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    The Koch brothers combined can`t touch George Soros. For one thing,
    they aren`t trying to destroy America. Neither one of them is a
    Marxist,Socialist, Comunist pig. Soros wants your freedom as well
    as your eyeballs, so you can`t see what and who`s trying to send America into the dephts of Hell.

    • bob wire

      WoW! George must be bad to the bone, ~ hmm? appears harmless enough. ~ thanks for the warning, I’ll keep an eye out.

      • Karolyn

        It’s like that old game we played when kids where you whisper something in someone’s ear around a circle, and by the time it gets around it’s a whole new story. As the stories about Soros are being told and retold, they are getting bigger, and bigger, and bigger….until he has horns and a tail! Oh, no, that’s President Obama. But I guess they can both have the horns and tail anyway. Lookout! The boogie-man is comin’ to getcha!

        • eddie47d

          You think they look under the bed every night to see if Soros is under there? Those on the right must have some really bad dreams for they love to share them with us.

          • get right

            eddie, they don’t have to look for soros, jeff is sleeping with him. He is so addicted to the Soros legend that he knows where he is at all times. lol

          • JeffH

            EWO,You know!

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          karolyn __Here, have a couple of servings of Soros

          http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=977

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    DaveH,
    Have these greedy goverment union members ask how much a US postal
    worker pays toward his retirement pension and healthcare. Ask how
    much their retirees pay and with all they pay they seam to make it.
    They work just has hard as anybody and at least they know how to read.

    • libertytrain

      Postal Workers pay quite a big chunk of their paychecks for these things. Wasn’t that way in the past when it was run by the US Gov. but nearly all of those employees that were under the old plan have retired or the few remaining (if any) are about to retire. Most people don’t realize this for some reason.

    • DaveH

      I have no beef with the postal workers, Charles. A few of them in my town actually work hard. But I would like to see them compete freely in a Free Market (which we don’t have).

  • jopa

    Average Joe;You wanted someone to point out where it said we have the right to collective bargaining.Well just read the Preamble to the Constitution and you will see the document is all about forming a more perfect UNION.A union really isn’t perfect without collective bargaining. I rest my case PS; Instead of retracting their bogus news with the palm trees in Wisconsin now Fox is running adds for coconut pickers needed immediately in Wisconsin.I think they are still trying to fool you people.There are no Palm Trees in Wisconsin.If you want reality trust me.Thank you.

  • jopa

    Jeffh: Yup looked at the clips again Fox lied.But what else is new.I have lost all faith in Jane Hannity and Dick O’Reilly.That network is so elementary.

    • JeffH

      jopa, again you fail to acknowledge the video footage labeled
      “union protests” were shown as O’Reilly said “all over the country union supporters are growing increasingly angry” while the video portion labeled “Madison, Wi” was aired while O’Reilly was speaking to Tobin in Wisconsin about the protesters in Wisconsin.

      It’s there if you really want to see it bt obviously you don’t. I did expect that kind of an answer from you anyway.

  • Kris

    Reading alot of these posts, I can now see how the con man Hussain got elected! This country is lost forever. See you all in a fema camp!

  • JeffH

    Has anyone seen or heard about all of the damamage these bussed in communists and union protesters have done to the Wisconsin Capitol building, inside and out?

    State says damage to marble at Capitol could hit $7.5 million.
    Madison Cari Anne Renlund, chief legal counsel for the state Department of Administration, said in Dane County court that estimates of damage to marble includes $6 million to repair damaged marble inside the Capitol, $1 million for damage outside and $500,000 for costs to supervise the damage.

    Much of the damage apparently has come from tape used to put up signs and placards at the Capitol.

    We’ve seen how protesters left the grounds at Washington DC. When those on the right held a rally, they didn’t leave the grounds in a mess. When those on the left rallied, they did. Now we’ve learned that these supposed “professionals” and their friends may very well have done damage in the millions to the Capitol building in Madison, WI. Go figure!

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117340918.html
    By Don Walker of the Journal Sentinel

    • bob wire

      Well, how much of that is embellishment I don’t know but it is the “People’s House” Jeff, they paid for it, they pay the wages of those inside. So short of burning the place down, I personally don’t really care that much what they do with their house.

      If Governor Walker might has considered approaching the “people’s business” in a more forthright fashion and made a serious effort to be every Wisconsin citizen’s Governor, this might have avoided, all this “Drama”, wear and tear on a Public facilities.

      There is a way to tell people to go to hell and they look forward to the trip! It’s referred to as Statesmanship, something that Walker has yet to develop. He will learn or he will enjoy a brief political life. For today, Walker is holding a majority but he’s not holding the cards to take all the tricks.

      • DaveH

        It is all of the peoples’ house, Bob, not just the Union supporters. They should be held liable for the damage.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    DavidH,
    Tell it the way it is. What they teach in our schools today is
    a sin. Our kids today don`t have a clue what the history of the UNITED STATES is,let alone the history of the world is. I give the Blacks credit, they learn more history about their culture during
    BLACK HISTORY month, than all the students of all colors in a public
    school learn in 12 years. How can you have a great country if you don`t know the history of it? You leave yourself wide open to
    the likes of people like Obama and his left wing Marxist loons. It`s
    not always the teachers falt,it`s the Progressives that have taken
    over our schools while America slept. What history books we do have,
    they have changed the very words and what they meant.

  • jopa

    Jeffh;It was a buddy of Walkers that gave the first estimate for $7.5million to scrape some tape residue off the marble.Another bid came in just now for $85.00.The Boy Scouts said they would clean it fo free.You still watching Faux?

    • JeffH

      jopa, of course you have something better than your “un-biased” word to back that up? A lot of talk but not anything else…

      • eddie47d

        Maybe we could trust Jeff if he didn’t throw around labels all the time. (everyone he doesn’t like is a Marxist or a Communist). He doesn’t talk about “others” as being American or have rights;he goes for the down and dirty name calling.

        • JeffH

          eddie…if you walk like a communist and talk like a communist, and I know this will hard for you communists to grasp but…you must be a communist!

          • eddie47d

            Thanks for proving my point Jeff.I hope your foot was clean when inserted in mouth.

          • JeffH

            eddie, there was no point to be proved…but enjoy what you think you’ve proved if it’ll make ya happy.

          • eddie47d

            Maybe you had your shoe on because you love the taste of leather. Sincerely,your “commie,Marxist,union thug comrade” Ed

  • jopa

    Jeffh;The one’s you called commies coming in on the buses were the Koch brothers tea baggers.The rallies in Washington held By Colbert and Stewart were three to four times the size of the bagger rally and there was no mess afterwards.Just more Fox propaganda.

    • bob wire

      Did you catch Bill O’Really’s show last night, Bill was addressing the Wisconsin protest and showed this film clip of these rather large angry men pushing and shoving people about, ~ and in the far corner of the films background, these was a stand of Palm Trees! LOL! I didn’t know Wisconsin has Palm Trees!

      • JC

        Jeff actually explains all of that very well a few posts above.

        • JeffH

          JC, it helps if these liberals would pay attention sometimes, but…well, you know about it all to well.

        • Biff

          No Jeff doesn’t explain anything at all. He has no idea what B-roll is nor does he have a clue how it’s used by ethical journalists. The website the Jeff trotted out was shown to be wrong by the first poster on that site.

        • JeffH

          Biff, B roll or A roll, I really don’t give a rats a$$..the video is what is important and it clearly shows what O’Reilly was speaking of correlated with the video as it was played. That’s what is important here…seperating the protests around the country(complete with palm trees in the background) from the “Wisconsin” protests…do you understand that?

          • Biff

            JeffH…. When O’Reilly talks to Tobin in Madison then cuts to the palm tree protest (for the second time) then back to Tobin in Madison…THAT is placing the b-roll out of context. When that clip is placed between two live hits from Wisconsin it implies to the casual viewer that THAT protest (complete with palm trees) is also taking place in Wisconsin. There is nothing that separates the protests around the country. At this point he was saying protesters were being bussed in. By showing the video out of context… sandwiched between clips of Tobin from the capitol building in Madison, viewers were led to believe that the video was from Wisconsin and very few would have noticed the palm trees as they quickly flashed by. That is dishonest… it is unethical… it is spin… propaganda. And I still can’t believe you’re not ticked-off at being played like that. Instead of being an apologist for shoddy journalism, you should give that rat’s a$$ and demand higher standards.

          • JeffH

            Biff biff, I don’t really care about your B rolls, A rolls or even egg roles.

          • Curtis

            And the winner is… Biff! Jeffie has thrown in the towel. Name calling didn’t work… the link he offered to support his argument blew up in his face… now defeated he just claims he doesn’t care anymore. He’s picking up his baseball and going home. Jeffie, the next time you want to debate don’t show up unarmed. Just stick to doing what you do best, name calling and leave the serious discussions to those with the facts and ability to debate rationally and intelligently.

          • JeffH

            Curtis, not even close…

          • Curtis

            You got schooled. Take it like a man.

          • JeffH

            LMAO! Schooled by a liberal? ROFLMAO!

          • JC

            How can any American be schooled by a Liberal?
            Their whole philosophy is (nowadays) rooted in theft, childishness and other emotional crap.
            “It’s not Fair” Waaaahhhh

            I wish they could all just catch a flight to wherever it is that everything is fair and everyone is living well…the two don’t mix and no such place will ever exist.

    • barbm

      why is it that democrats know soooooo much about homosexual activities? are you gay or just don’t know the difference between a tea bag and a tea party? bring your ill used behind to texas, and we’ll make sure you understand the difference before you leave little darlin’.

    • JeffH

      …and so it is jopa’s lips that flutter and utter the familiar liberal feeding call of baaaa, baaaa, baaaa!

      • eddie47d

        Jeff;Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!Nighty nite sheep herder!

        • JeffH

          eddie thanks, you finally got something right. Now let’s hear another rousing baaaaaaaaaaaa from you.

          • eddie47d

            Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!

  • MJR

    STEVEN ELBOW | The Capitol Times | selbow@madison.com madison.com …
    A lot of us today were trying to figure out how protesters managed to inflict a devastating $7.5 million worth of damage to the state Capitol building. But the state Department of Administration wasn’t talking.

    The claim was made this week by a state Department of Administration official during court hearings on restricting access to the building. The official said the inside of the Capitol was damaged to the tune of $6 million. Outside damage was expected to cost $1 million, and there was another $500,000 in additional expenses. MUCH OF THE PURPORTED DAMAGE WAS FROM TAPE USED TO DISPLY POSTERS ON THE WALLS.

    The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported today that the state is backing away from the estimates, the origin of which is still in question.

    The International Union of Painters and Allied Trades District Council 7 — which claims over 100 years of experience in painting and in the removal of adhesive tapes from the Capitol building — also weighed in on the matter today.

    “After inspecting the Capitol early Friday morning, I am 100 percent confident that any so-called ‘damage’ done by community members expressing their First Amendment rights is nowhere near $7 million,” says IUPAT business manager John Jorgensen in a written statement. “This estimate is yet another gross overreach. I would like to personally offer IUPAT labor on a volunteer basis to address any alleged damage from protesters’ signs and tape during the protests.”

    • barbm

      a bottle of goo gone will fix it right up. smells like oranges and takes off tape like it’s water. costs about $4.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/government/on-wisconsin/#comment-379214 MJR

    Madison 360: Even allies backpedal from Walker’s extremism

    http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/government/on-wisconsin/#comment-379214

  • Bill

    Time for the Unions to end, Time for government employs wages and benefits to match the rest of the working class! Past time for the Unions to be gone. They are and have been a determent to America for some time. Let the people vote. Not some Union boss who sells out his workers for his own benefits! No it is time for a lot of change and not Obamas to destroy the dollar and the white man of America. Obama as the Unions needs to be gone. Both are criminal. Both a deception, both harm America. Obama has wasted more money than all the presidents of past and he wants to do more to harm this country, He has put racialism back many years in his handling of things, were there was no race problem he has created one. He has sold America out on every venture he has made, He has disrespected out friends and courted our enemy’s, He bows before those we should consider enemy’s of America and bit the hand of those who threw the years have been our friend, he courts the socialist and the Muslim who attack us, who voice us and there enemy and he holds the doors of our nation open to their infiltration, it will take years to weed out this invasion of Illegal’s he has permitted to continue, no others have had their part too, but he has been asked to do something and has blatantly left American life and business open to attack from a foreign country on American Soil, No other president in history has done that, this bastard has sided with the enemy in all accounts, that charges of treason need to brought against him and the sentence carried out is past tense, with these unions mafia run and crime controlled there end needed to be years back our government needs to follow this money line back to its every root and extinguish it, If legal normal jobs are not fitting for this class them deal with them appropriately, they use force to control anything jail them for it and keep jailing them. We need to be a free sovereign Nation, our Constitution the law of the Land, not some piece of paper for politicians to wipe there ass with and that is how Obamma treats it. This has to end, better we rid ourselves of Obama then the Constitution.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/freedom-concerns/van-jones-and-the-american-dream/?eiid&rmid=2011_03_03_PLA_P11184332&rrid=387590016 Pat J.

    So you have been feeding walker your favorite sayings: Kick the Can-give him some more things to say. He is only after building a resume, he’s no true Wisconsinite. He is a power grabber and a want to be a “wealthy”.

    You may never get it. You like to go boating and have a ranger called if there is a problem; you want teachers to give young people the skills and hope of a great future; you want your garbage picked up; you want police and fire to be ready to serve you 24/7. Slavery is over and so is the name calling that goes with it-parsasites, fat years, unions are dead men walking, bloodsuckers, etc. You might just make a fight worth having.

    General respect for every job should count for a father, mother, sister, brother, uncle or aunt-no matter who they are. You love to put people down, you are disrespectful of the genuine work ethic so many have, including state employees.

    Very good and caring people work almost every job, there has to be dignity in work. After awhile the seniority and experience and education push the ship up-pay goes up. Private sector full-time jobs have only 30% with a bachelors degree in Wisconsin, while the public sector has 56%. See any possible reasons for compensation differences? Public employees left the money on the table to get a better befefit, private sector employees did not.

    You feel it is ok to bargain with people where you come out on top; but when the lowly public employee starts moving to the suburbs that isn’t so good for you.

    Go across America and see how you enjoy low paying jobs to serve you. These people need higher wages just for the inflation of food, clothing and shelter costs resulting from your friends on Wall Street. You won’t miss a meal, nor a vacation. The low paid workers will work Thanksgiving, Christmas, the 4th of July so you can drop a dime into the economy. They are tired and cannot recover, they are hungry and feed their children instead of themself, if they knew you were well off they would still help you. They are the dignified.

    Pat

    • Karolyn

      Walker wants to be President! He knows just how to get conservatives in his pocket!

      • chuckb

        i don’t know about the presidentual part, but, he sure got the unions out of the pocket of the taxpayers. he’s doing a great job.

  • chuckb

    pat, you are very right. get the unions out of public service, stop the featherbedding. turn most the public jobs back to the private sector. make the teachers responsible for teaching and end teachers tenure. let them work the year thru like all other workers. it didn;t work in the soviet union and it’s not working here.

  • http://deleted Claire

    Now I hear there is possible recall proceedings being discussed regarding some of the Republican Senators that have been in office for over a year.

    • chuckb

      claire, that doesn’t make sense, why would they vote in conservative politicians to correct the way things were going, then when they make the change vote them out. sounds like union scuttlebutt to me.

      • http://deleted Claire

        chuckb–Thsi is what I have heard. So who knows what will happen. This isn’t over yet by any means.

  • Bette

    I think government and state governnent workers have just as much of a right to bargain for decent wages and benefits from their employers as any other group of workers. The governmental bodies can always say NO…or work out a compromise with representatives of workers that is something the state/feds can afford. Teachers in my state are not allowed to strike so such bargaining privileges are reasonable and nothing more than a worker in private industry asking the boss for a raise or some other improvement in the workplace.

    Furthermore, I don’t think teacher associations should be called “unions.” They are professional associations not unlike the AMA for doctors, or similar professional organizations for engineers, dentists, and other college-educated professionals. I don’t hear anyone complaining about the AMA! I’m sure other professional organizations lobby for things they want for their members, too. That is the American way and a right of citizenship.

    Yes, teacher’s professional associations do bargain for salaries, benefits, and improved working conditions for teachers, but this is a necessary function and a right. There is nothing wrong with that. They are not selfless, and teaching is their livelihood. These associations also defend teachers rights should some student or parent try to sue them on some trumped up charge (which does happen), but they also work to improve learning conditions for students, encourage better teaching strategies, work to improve educational programs, and the like. These organizations are a good and necessary thing and should not be removed.

    However, I do think their political contributions made primarily to one party are a problem and something should be done about that, but lots of other entities also contribute to politicians to curry favor, and this is another right of citizenship.

    On another note, teachers have been historically extremely underpaid. The benefit programs they receive were probably an attempt to compensate for the dismal salaries they get and an attempt to attract good teachers to a job that is very difficult and unappealing to many. If you think about it, though, these benefits are not likely to be used on a regular basis. A healthy person seldom has to use his health benefits or dental benefits very often so it is not a constant expense or drain on the state. Some employees may wind up contributing much more than they use. Moreover, teachers in most states do contribute to their benefit plans, their pensions, and their social security (the latter two of which are taxed when drawn upon). Teachers are not living like royalty by any means, and should not be made the scapegoat by states in an attempt to balance their budgets.

    Another point I would like to make is that in many cases, states have taken money out of the contributions made by teachers to pay for other budget items. Now they want to take even more from them when in fact, they should replace what they borrowed.

    In addition, I am sick of people claiming that teachers work for only 9 months a year. They are paid for and serve for a 10-month year, but put in a lot more time than that (essentially free overtime). They use much of their personal time in the evenings to do professional planning and evaluating student progress. Their summers are often spent getting additional training or degrees to improve their skills. Of necessity many pick up extra work in the summer (at an even lower wage because it is part-time) to compensate for the poor pay received during the rest of the year for their professional services.

    Compensation for our nations’ teachers is a far cry from what it should be, and now people are crying out to give them even less. They deserve everything they currently get and more for the job they do. What would anyone become in life without a teacher, and who will want to become a teacher with continued low pay and reduced benefits. There needs to be a change in priorities here. Education is important to keeping this country economically viable, and our budget problems should not be solved on the backs of teachers.

    • Vigilant

      “I think government and state governnent workers have just as much of a right to bargain for decent wages and benefits from their employers as any other group of workers. The governmental bodies can always say NO..”

      Bette, would that that were the case. But the “governmental bodies” DO NOT say “no.” Union demands/desires of a private corporation are one thing, where the management has to worry about the bottom line. In government, politicians have no real desire to keep costs down because it’s not their personal investment being robbed, it’s the dollars of the taxpayers. And when the pols learned, a long time ago, that they could use someone else’s money to get elected, they opened the floodgates of the taxpayers’ reservoir. And the taxpayers have just about reached the limits of their patience.

      If we haven’t learned anything else in the last 200 years, let’s at least remember that it was politicians of all parties and government officials who have put us in this precarious financial situation. They are, purely and simply, the foxes guarding the financial chicken house.

  • chuckb

    bette, i agree, teachers should be considered professional and held to the same standards, they should have to pass an exam something like the attorney’s and hired on their own merits. you can convince the school board of your worth and negotiate your own salary. no unions involved, all the professionals i know do not have a union to enforce salaries or retainer fees. this would certainly be a good thing and solve a lot of our teaching problems. i doubt this is what you have in mind though.
    california teachers the last the media reported some years ago, started at $60,000 plus all benefits and their certification amounted to a 4th grade exam. don’t you think to be a professional that should be changed?

  • Kevin

    There is a simple solution to this problem that would solve two problems at once. Tell me why government union workers have a special pension. When we all ready have a government run retirement program that is called Social Security. If you move all them to Social Security like everyone else. You would have had the unions protesting against Social Security program. They should be on it just like us. You know Social Security is such a great government program. They should have to pay in and get out the same as all of us. Just think about how much money you could save and you would be fixing the broken Social Security program at the same time.

  • Kevin

    An other Idea I have, is to sell whole school districts, buildings, buses, everything and privatize the schools. Take that money and pay your debt down.
    Then you would not have to lay any one off. You need to make it so one local person or local company can own only one school district at a time. All these teachers would have a new boss and would have to teach! This would take out the politics out of the schools. The schools really need to be run like a business. Give the new owners simple rules to go by. It would start competition between the schools, and the result would be better teaching. This would be Best for the kids!

  • http://Verizon Bud G.

    Jovianus: You are always deriding someone in these blogs about their lack of research and then you make a snide comment about the homeschooling of my grand children. Just so you know, home schooled children must be tested by the State and the curriculum for study is also provided. They are no different than a public school student because their State tested scores are there for a college to review.

    Don’t think you are necessarily more intelligent than another person on this blog? My son has an IQ of 148. So what? There are many out there today with a masters degree slinging hamburgers but that doesn’t make it right. There are many on this blog that reason better than you. I don’t agree with some but it is their right to comment without someone deriding them. Tact isn’t one of your strong points.

  • http://dochob Shirley Hobby

    I was amused when I read the line that we need “workers not walkers” because to me that is the crux of this issue: we need workers not Walkers. If this was really about saving money and balancing the budget, then that could be done by taxing the corporations and eliminating the loopholes for the wealthy but it is about ‘busting’ the union and I think keeping women ‘in their place’~that good ole’boy philosophy of ‘keeping the little lady at home barefoot and pregnant canning the food and making the clothes and keeping her mouth shut.’
    I read in an article written by some media pundit (who probably had one or two teachers along the way) that state employees make outrageous salaries and perks. As a retired educator, I can honestly say that he is not being truthful and is perpertrating a fraud on his readers. My salary was always far too low for what I did each day! I taught, I worked hard, I cared about my students and I did it with passion. Most teachers do the same. They deserve respect and appreciation.
    Why this attack on public sector workers? Do you not want your teachers to be paid a living wage? Do you not want your nurses to be paid a living wage? Do you want to support two Texas billionaires who help finance politicians in their quest to “bust” the unions?

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Wiselady

    wiselady says:

    3-4-11

    I fail to comprehend why we must continue to elect politicians who keep spending to placate the Unions and those whose performance of their duties (teaching) keep producing a, “product” that comes out with low scores in various academic performances.

    Tax payers pay twice; taxes for education and as consumers when purchasing products because the companies had to re-educate their new employees which becomes part of the overhead cost. The company passes the cost to the consumer through the purchase price. On tope of that, health insurance, Social Security, on and on. I know, I lived through it. The Union demands go only one direction,up and up and up with more. WE ARE BROKE, can’t you get it? The dollar might be replaced with the Yen or some other currency. Do some research.

  • ONTIME

    Looks like Chip pushed the right button on this one, lots of talk and that’s good to see. This government union situation needs a stake thru it’s heart because what could have been a tool for representation turns into a sledge hammer to tell the bosses hired by the voters and tax payers what to do. Being able to disable the government by virtue of a mob rule is not democracy in action it is totalitarian and leads to despotism, I would think that tax payer would expect more for their money since it is tax money that makes government work, not membership dues.

  • http://PersonableLiberty Jerry

    There communist , thats what they teach in our schools and I will be glad to take you to any campus and talk to any of the communist teacher.

  • Mick

    ONTIME says:
    March 5, 2011 at 12:19 am
    Looks like Chip pushed the right button on this one, lots of talk and that’s good to see. This government union situation needs a stake thru it’s heart because what could have been a tool for representation turns into a sledge hammer to tell the bosses hired by the voters and tax payers what to do. Being able to disable the government by virtue of a mob rule is not democracy in action it is totalitarian and leads to despotism, I would think that tax payer would expect more for their money since it is tax money that makes government work, not membership dues.

    *************************************************
    ONTIME ,,,Very well put !
    Their excuse at being the representatives of the working man has run its course long ago they since organized the destruction of anyone out to work well and hard, it take three workers to do the job of one and the corporations will pass on the cost of paying those extra workers to the consumer while the unions will collect more dues to help elect the very people out to destroy the fine fabric that made America the best country in the world….

  • jopa

    barbm:Gov.Walker must have gotten that $7.5million bid to scrape off the tape from the protestors signs from Haliburton when it only costs $4.00 for a bottle of goo gone.

    • barbm

      maybe they never heard of goo gone. :) i used to clean houses for a living to make my s.s. stretch. too old now for that, but i know about every cleaning product on the market.

  • jopa

    ShirleyH:That has always been one of the republican sentiments that women belong in the kitchen and bedroom not in the workplace.I think they would be wise to take a long look at today’s world and show a little more respect.Women are not just teachers today that they can push around ,woman are in almost every field today but don’t have the earning capacity of their male counterparts.

  • jopa

    Claire; Wisconsin is one of the few states where voters can recall their senators but they have to have been in office for at least a year.Type in “Wisconsin senate recalls”in google and there is plenty of information on the recall of both parties.

    • http://deleted Claire

      jopa–You know, I think it would be a dang good idea if all states could have a recall policy. That would sure make the politicians straighten up.

  • GregS

    I wonder how Obummer and the rest of the Democrats would have reacted if all those who opposed ObamaCare would have fled their posts, instead of voting, during the ObamaCare debate. Why not? Couldn’t those who left just say that they were “representing their constituents” by not showing up? Just think about that for a minute! Wouldn’t that be great? Perhaps we would not now have ObamaCare, because they could never get a quorum to vote on it!

    • eddie47d

      Almost all Representatives showed up and voted on the Healthcare issue. 219-212. So why in the world is there a comparison? The Republicans lost yet they are constantly attacking the Affordable Healthcare Act. In Wisconsin the Democrats seem to be on the loosing side and are 3 votes short. Both these issues are contentious and drawn out.The Democrats may have to accept defeat but are You willing to accept defeat on the Healthcare issue.

      • JeffH

        I think if ObamaCare had really addressed the issues of health care reform in America it could have garnered bi-partisan support. Unfortunately, it didn’t!

      • GregS

        eddie47d says:

        “The Democrats may have to accept defeat but are You willing to accept defeat on the Healthcare issue.”

        As far as ObamaCare is concerned, the answer is a resounding Yes! The entire ObamaCare bill should be scrapped and completely re-written!

        Eddie, you’ve completely missed the point: The Republicans were accused of being the “party of no,” because they did not support ObamaCare. However, they remained at their posts and ultimately voted on the bill, even though they fully realized that they were going to lose, especially if they lost the support of the moderate Democrats (Many predicted that those Democrats would cave in at the last minute, as they ultimately did.). Keep in mind that it was well known that most Americans did not (and still do not) support ObmaCare. If those Republicans had fled to avoid a vote on ObamaCare altogether, rest assured that Democrats from all over the counry would have been screaming bloody murder, and they probably would have demanded that those Republicans resign for not doing their job. Now that the Democrats in Wisconsin are in the minority, their fellow colleagues seem to think it’s O.K. for them to flee the state, because they are “representing their constituents.”

        • eddie47d

          Sure the Republicans would have taken the heat if they fled Washington. I understand why the Democrats are being attacked for going to Illinois. Sometimes you just have to take a stand on issues when you think they are wrong. Gov. Walkers was trying to drive a stake into unions and those Democrats disagree with his actions. That is part of our Democracy/Republic process. No one likes a bully and Walker was playing the part and still is after concessions were made. When Walker plays fair then we should expect the same from his opponents.

          • GregS

            Eddie, fleeing the state to avoid a vote on the issue is not “tak[ing] a stand on issues,” as you put it. Instead, it’s actually running away from the issues.

            During the ObamaCare debate, the Democrats “bullied” the Republicans quite extensively. For example:

            - They excluded the Republicans from most of the discussions.

            - They flatly rejected most of the ammendments put forth by the Republicans.

            - They even threatened, at one point, to “deem” the bill as being passed, if it didn’t actually have enough votes to get passed.

            In view of all of this, the Republicans remained at their posts and did their job by voting on the bill.

            In the case of Wisconsin, the Democrats are acting like a bunch of spoiled little brats, who can’t get their way. They are only interested in protecting the special interests of the unions. If they were truly interested in doing their job, they would go back to Wisconsin, vote on the bill, and then wait for all of this to play out during the next election cycle.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    The Progressives have taken over our schools at every leval, while America slept. They have changed what our history have said and to have conformed to their ideolgy. Marx, would be very proud of what
    has taken place in our schools. It`s time, that we not only take
    back our country, but also our schools. It`s not our big business`s,
    our churches or even the people who have brought shame to our country.
    It`s the people or groups that like to spread social justice. The
    Progressives,Socialists,Marxist,who have taken over the head of our
    unions, and the communist. As your great leader, has said,conform America and
    spread the wealth. America, is waking up,and it will no longer be
    the easy ride that the Progressives have had in the past. I think
    Obama and is thugs are supprised at how smart and tough the American
    people are. The American people, have slowed them down for the time being and will kick them out of Washington in 2012. This President,
    I think will go down as the worst in American history.He will be noted as the President,who tried to destroy America.The first and only,
    and hopefully the last to try this.

    • TheUndertaker

      Charles, you are so loco that you need a remedy by eating my dung.

  • TheUndertaker

    Wisconsin….I say you should just Hang Him…High….!

  • JeffH

    For those of you that don’t believe your labor union due are being used by Unions to fund their own political agendas…read this…

    Use of(union)dues for politics

    Every day, millions of union members have money taken from their paychecks to support some union presidents’ political agenda. In 1996, Rutgers economics professor Leo Troy estimated that union political expenditures totaled about $500 million in each election cycle. More recently, the National Institute for Labor Relations Research estimated that total union political expenditures reached $925 million in the 2004 cycle. Over time, this has added up: According to The Center for Responsive Politics, eight of the top ten all-time political contributors are labor unions.

    Labor leaders have made the use of employee money for political causes a popular practice — but it’s far less popular among the public and the members themselves.
    http://www.unionfacts.com/articles/unionPolitics.cfm

    My beef about unions is not with the rank and file and never has been.

    • JeffH

      If you really want to educate yourself about unions and union officials abuse of the memberships dues, I really recommend this website.

      The Center for Union Facts is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization supported by foundations, businesses, union members, and the general public. We are dedicated to showing Americans the truth about today’s union leadership.
      The Center for Union Facts doesn’t support candidates for office. We are about education.
      http://www.unionfacts.com/aboutUs.cfm

  • Scott

    Walker is just asking that the state workers have the same deal as federal workers. These Wisconsin state workers have a far better deal than the private sector workers who pay their wages. The pendulum has swung to far to the left and now it needs to be corrected. The senate Dems from Wisconsin are cowards-we do live in a republic and they need to show up for work. All these teachers who show up to protest by closing down their schools (while still getting paid) should be ashamed of themselves. Yeah, its for the good of the children. Try that in the private sector. I wish Walker the best and any other Governor who has to to the same to bring solvency to the states. Maybe, the feds will get some backbone and follow suit. This country has gone to pot and its due to too many special interest groups like teacher unions, large corporate lobbying groups, and the like. Time for the people to be heard and the interests of the everyday citizen and America to be put first. The shame of America is that we keep pushing all this crap forward to be the burden of our children. This all sickens me.

    • Donel

      THE UNION PROTECT THE GONERNORS.?.?.?

  • Donel

    LIKE THE CHURCH,NOT ALLOWED IN THE OPERATION OF THE GOVERNMENT,SO IT SHOULD BE WITH THE UNION. MEDDLING IN THE STATE AFFAIRS & BUDGET.
    IT’S WE THE PEOPLE!
    OBMA WANT’S THE UNION HAVE RIGHTS IN WISCONSIN GOVERNMENT BECAUSE DEMOCRATS GET MY UNION DUES!
    YOU KNOW WHY UNION IS NOT IN WASHINGTON D.C?
    SAME AS THE CHURCH!

  • JeffH

    Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest.
    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thirds-wisconsin-public-school-8th-g

    • libertytrain

      And sadly, Wisconsin is supposed to be one of the better States for education of our kids. Doesn’t say much about our education system as a whole now does it?

      • JeffH

        They got one heck of a football team though.

        • libertytrain

          I hope that one keeps going for a few years.

  • Pete

    Very interesting article ! It seems the problem is solving “itself”. The Union is getting what it wants and the anti-union people are getting what they want !

    No one to vote down the Union – the Dems fled Wisconsin …

    No money for the Union – Wisconsin is out of money – they can’t pay for the benefits ! Government shuts down .

    I have to disagree on #3 – “collective bargaining” – it’s part of the American culture to have demonstrations like this. The Wisconsin government could always enforce order if they want.

    The rest of the suggestions are good. But that’s up to the negotiating parties to decide. Closed union shops vs open union shops ? Usually an open shop won’t work.

    Looks like a deadlock, Wisconsin needs professional help from labor arbitrators …

    The bottom line is government run services (ie socialized) sometimes are extremely dysfunctional. If the government services were contracted out to the lowest bidder, and the private contractor held accountable and liable for service quality, Wisconisn in the long run would be better off …

  • Aix Sponsa

    What a bunch of piss-pot whiney twits.

    No not you, the other guys.

    • DaveH

      Are you talking about the people who want to keep their own hard earned money, or the people who want to take it away from them?

  • jopa

    As time goes by more and more people are really starting to like the Health Care Bill now that they are beginning to understand it more.It is patterned after the Romney health care bill almost to the letter.In coming years it will become one of our greatest accomplishments in modern history in making America stronger with a much healthier population.I kind of feel sorry for Romney really not getting the credit where credit is due but historically Obama care will probably be the name officially in the future.This will make him go down in history as one of the greatest leaders of all time.

  • jopa

    The best thing about this whole Wisconsin fiasco is it brought the American out to see what type of corruption Walker and his cronies are up to.Wisconsin is not alone and there will be more people getting involved in elections than has ever been seen before and they will get rid of the wannabe Reagans that don’t even come close to being like him.It was a totally different scenario with the air traffic controllers and Walker should have read up on it so he didn’t start looking like a fool.Now that he has bitten off more than he can chew he is about to choke and many others will be gagging with him.

  • bob wire

    Hmm? There has been a lot of interesting information and “feelings” been brought forward on this thread.

    It has been good for everyone to come together and air their views about unions and their feeling about public workers.

    It appears there is much to address and some conflicts of interest, impropriety and disparity does indeed exist and some adjustment truly are in order.

    However, I find it odd that a movement that boast the need for small government, getting government out of our lives and monetary responsibility would be the ones to champion Governor Walker and his big power play.

    It was Governor Walker’s decision to add 117 million dollars to state budget short fall with no detailed explanation offered how it would be spent while targeting individual tax paying earners to make up for this “short fall”

    I would think this state government leadership lead power play wouldn’t set too well with Tea Party supporters as it goes against many of their “proclaimed” values. They have voices great opposition to shift of tax burdens, majority rule, power plays and government interference in the past but today it’s seen as a “good thing”. ???

    Myself, I don’t care one way or the other, I’ve accepted that I will pay and I will be required to endure the foolishness one way or the other. I will not be a winner regardless of any outcome.

    It will not help me for my neighbors to make less money. I will be left to continue on with yet a smaller customer base that has been steadily shrinking since 1984. These same customers will do with less earning and pay less taxes. This will not help state revenue collection but only hurt it.

    The only good that might come of it would be the creation of more people like myself and feel my pain and struggle. Perhaps that is needed, more people to see the same problems that I must face everyday.

    But if you are somehow thinking, that these wage concessions alone might curb government spending, I feel you are mistaking. Government will just spend “more money” somewhere else.

    We live inside a loop of consuming and spending and it’s an ongoing process with no end. We are just discussing who’s to get it first, what pigs will be at the food trough first and how much will be left to feed the rest of the little pigs.

    I don’t expect there to be “more” but only “less” with any shake up of tax and spend.

    If you combine all the taxes that American must pay today, Fed, state, city, country with school and hospital tax, MTA, FICA, water tax, road tax,disposal tax, consumption tax, luxury tax, user fees, transfer fees, registration fees, sin tax, just because tax, Question Tax, Right Answer Tax, penalties,interest, late fees, I wouldn’t be surprise if we spend 50% or more of our income on such things.

    Just know this everyone, You are not the only people paying these Taxes and fees, we all pay them so we might sit in our comfortable homes with full bellies and hope someone is doing their jobs as you at one time did yours.

    But because you retired doesn’t mean the rest of the world did or that there is not still a lot of work out there to do if you wish to continue sitting in your Easy Boy recliner.

    I often have seniors say to me, “Make me a deal, I live on a fixed income” ~ I say to them, ” The only income I have is want I can manage to capture”, “there is no promise or guarantees that I have anything”, “Can you afford a fair deal?” “Maybe you can’t afford my services and products and need to rethink your desires”

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Bob Wire,
    For once, I agree with a lot of things you had to say. I can`t
    believe, I would ever agree with any thing you had to say. Maybe,
    we can get along afterall. GOOD POST!!

    • http://Verizon Bud G.

      Charles: I agree. I don’t always agree with Bob Wire but he is a very intelligent man and he states his case well. Sometimes, though, I think someone is using his name because the wording or spelling is suspect and wonder if if fact it is Bob Wire.

    • bob wire

      Well thank both of you gentlemen for such kind words, there is but one of me and I seek only resolve and resolution. It’s not my desire to inflame or incite anymore conflict then what is already present in the course of heated debate as we apply ourselves to the issues of the day.

      There is much good to come from this discourse of lively debate, to explore the issues and expose the disparity and impropriety, to understand what you might have taken for granted, others might take exception as they might shoulder a heavier burden.

      It’s not compulsory to agree or that any change might be forthcoming in timely fashion but it a safe bet, to never be talked about, to never be discussed in any depth, there will never be desirable change. Any of us might well be a benefactor of an on-going system and taken our good fortune for granted while the load was not evenly shared by all.

      I’m looking for common ground and “intent” purpose among fellow citizens as we share what is happening to our nation, our world. I can not help but feel , that you, much like myself are not living the life that we ordered and somewhat disappointed with way things are being playing out and feeling helpless to do much about it.

      At the same time, we refuse to just “allow” life to happen to us, we work, we fight to ensure a place for ourselves and those that someday shall follow behind. These are things we all have in common and have to share.

      Each generation has it’s own battle ( so have several battles) and required to make some hard decisions, It’s hard to let go of something hard fought for. It’s hard to change our views, to change our minds without seeing a clear “need” to do so.

      That’s what these public forums help us do, explore and open our minds to the the “need” for change, to understand “why the need” to expose the conflict of interest and disparity.

      We are not here to display anger and contempt for each other, to see how mean and ugly we can be to each other but to improve on a system that is far from perfect yet better then most world citizen enjoy today.

      I don’t approve of Governor Walker’s approach to addressing this matter but if this is what it takes to “expose” failing in a system that been accepted and now “common place”, I’ll just have to be disappointed in his methods.

      The fear among the left is this is an attack on the DNC and campaign funding and their ability to get worthy candidates elected as the DNC doesn’t enjoy the support of the US Chamber or Commerce or Big Business in general as their counterpart the RNC. The RNC is openly sympathetic to big business interest and offer no apology for it, while they decline to boast to the fact.

      But in the same breath, our nation is not what you would call overly “small or big business friendly”

      There is so many laws on the books, city, county and state these days it’s hard to open a business and make a profit.

      Our local government have been turned into “Predatory” government much like predatory banks and lending practices. The ante so high only a few are allowed to play, namely big business.

      I grew annoyed with unlevel playing fields and sweetheart deals struck in Capital Buildings all across this nation as good citizen work and pay taxes while a select few line their pockets.

      The private sector in this country needs to invest in their country and I really don’t see offering them more money the solution but more a matter of making it costly for them if they fail too.

      • http://Verizon Bud G.

        Bob Wire:

        A very eloquent and reasoned post.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    jopa,
    You are one true Progressive. What part don`t you understand, we are broke,there is no more money? By the way, are the Progressives
    and unions going to pay for the 7 million dollars worth of damages
    they have done to the state house,or is that also going to be passed on to the tax payer of Wis?

  • jopa

    Charley Charley Charley;That $7million dollar damage claim you speak of was fiction by Jeffh.There is a minimal amount of tape residue from some of the American patriots signs that is going to be cleaned by a few volunteers.However Haliburton heard about the $7million dollar bid and said they could do it for 6.5.Another patriot said it could be cleaned with a $5.00 bottle of GooGone.The reason Wisconsin is having a budget crunch is they gave all the tax breaks to the wealthy and large corporations and now it’s the small business owner and middle class taxpayers that have to make up the differance.

    • JeffH

      jopa, fiction by jeffh? The only fiction is that you liberals think you’re being honest! If you would have actually read my post you’d have seen that I did link the story, which claimed that the damage repair costs were “estimates”. Do you even know what an estimate is?
      By the way your liberal pals, whom you so proudly support, did trash the capitol building in Wisconsin leaving it to look like a pig sty after a hearty liberal feeding at the trough.

      Secondly, both you and I weren’t there yet you know a $5.00 bottle of Goo Gone will fix the damage. Right! You liberals are just too smart…LMAO! Haliburton? Doesn’t the leftist’s Michael Moore and Soros still own a couple of million shares of Haliburton? Maybe you’d be better off looking at GE instead!

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    jopa,
    I can just see the T Party doing the kind of damadge done by
    the unions.They would never be able to live it down. It just goes to show you,the unions don`t give a damn about any one but themselves
    Between the right and left marches in Washington last year, the Right kept their area, with twice the people, very clean. The
    Left on the other hand, kept theirs like a pig pen. You go figure it,
    CLEAN and DIRTY. CARRING and NOT CARRING. RIGHT and LEFT.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    jopa,
    ya right, The people are really liking the health care bill more
    and more. They were really tickled about the 105 billion that
    Obama and Pelosi put in there with out congress knowing anything
    about it. Didn

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    eddie47d,
    Why do you think the Progressives ( Democrats ) are on the losing
    side in Wis? You most have been out of the country in Nov. 2010.
    Your party lost so many seats through out the country and it was because of healthcare. I agree, it is cheap for some, because they
    don`t have to pay anything, while other people are paying, not only
    for themselves,but for the free loaders. Eddie, the last time I checked there isn`t a Democrat party. It was hijacked by the Progressives. The Democrats know to get there party back, they are going to have to join up with the Republicans in 2012 and run Obama and his Marxist thieves out of Washington.Then in 2016, we can once again,have a election between our two great parties and no matter who wins
    we will have a President, hell bent on not trying to destroy this great country. Now, then you might be one of these Progressives,
    Marxist, Socialists,Communist, I don`t think you are, I think you
    are a good Democrat and fell asleep while Obama and his Marxist friends hijacked your party and pretend to be Democrats. Look
    how many of his own Democrat Congressmen, he threw under the bus just
    to make himself look good and get his health care bill passed.This man, feels he dosen`t need anybody except George Soros and himself.
    He thinks with his charm, and Georges money,that they can rule the world.
    hijacked your party

  • http://www.cbcofetowah.com/ Mike

    Hey all sorry I have been lax in posting for a while I have been working on our church web page its finally complete and live. So I will be back to posting here come monday Missed our disscussions and debates emensly. Even the liberals :) Mike L. Web page now listed in my post for thoes that care to come have a look.

  • jopa

    Jeffh;As I I have told you in the past I don’t go to sites that you post.Many contain viruses, nazi propaganda. obscenities and are all conservative misgivings.I am capable and do extensive research taking info from both sides and drawing my own conclusions.Look closely at this Beck fella that you idolize so much and you expect anyone with a brain to take you seriously.Watched Meet the Press earlier with Michelle Bachman on it.What a fruitcake.WE WANT SARAH.Bachman gave the exact same answer for ten different questions.Like she had a mini resorder in her head with a short tape with limited room for answers.I was a fan of hers at one time.

    • JeffH

      jopa, not only are you a liar but you are a bonefied liberal loon.

  • DeJay

    I just placed a comment that so far in outer spces and was told it had already been said. What A crock of bull. If one is censored here, what hope do we have?

    • JeffH

      DeJay, you have posted a comment close to the top of this thread. By chance did you hit “submit” more than once which would duplicate your original post? I can’t think of any other reason why your comment would be censored other than by the use of profanity.

      • libertytrain

        You are right, Jeff, I have accidentally clicked that button twice and got that message every single time.

  • http://personallibertyalerts John Despard

    Why is no one putting this in perspective? Taxpayer money goes to build stadiums, concert venues, etc. for athletes and entertainers to make millions while charging us an arm ad a leg to see and hear them in our publically owned buildings. Who is complaining about that? Government contracts, tax breaks, bailouts, foreign aid, etc. make people rich while the rest of us scrape by. Where is the justice in this? Our leaders earn six figure salaries for passing laws to help those who offer bribes to them thinly disguised as campaign contributions. These are the things we should be complaining about not a teacher being well paid for caring for and teaching our children. What price do we put on it when a fireman runs into a burning building to bring a child to safety? What is it worth to us when the police catch a drunk driver, child molester or rapist before they harm one of our loved ones? When you put things in perspective who is worth their pay more? The people who do these last three jobs or those who entertain us for a few hours occasionally, or those who make decisions to put many of us out of work so a few can profit more, or the ones who gamble often badly with our money and make fortunes whether the rest of us profit or not?

    • Bob Peterson

      Back when there were no unions for firemen and policemen, they still did their jobs. Same goes for the teachers, only they taught what needed to be taught to produce the students who went on to invent the computers and other “neat” devices we now have to make our lives easier. The educational system in Wis. is one of the worst now, right down there with California. By the way, if it were not for the “Big Corporations”, there would be no money for the unions to squander however they wanted to. Big Corporations hire the tax-payers who also pya the salaries of the teachers and firemen, and the policemen as well. Wisconsin needs to pass a law like we did in Cal. back in 1978, called propisistion 13. It saved a lot of people from losing their homes to the tax man.

  • AntiUnion Teacher

    Fact is, union leaders are as greedy as the b@stard politicians!! I was told by our union president when I first started teaching that the union was there for my rights. When I asked about my rights not to join the union, she became incredibly silent. I also asked about my right of not having my dues being wasted on every damn liberal (or any politician for that matter) and union trips, but again, absolute silence. Unions have played a very destructive part in our country, as has every greedy politician and avaricious executive!! We need to get back to individual responsibility and a solid work ethic. As a society, the morals and values expressed through the Ten Commandments (Scripture) were erraticated from our psyche and now we are paying the price. My hope and trust are not in the unions, corporations or the politicians–they’re the ones who got us into this mess!!

  • jopa

    Jeffie Jeffie jeffiie;Did you miss another anger management class.That really hurts to be called a liar but I know deep down you didn’t mean it.Loons have have always been one of my favorite birds they are not only majestic and beautiful but highly intelligent.I didn’t know there was such a thing as a Liberal loon but thank you for the compliment.Is it OK if I call you my little Do Do bird.I think they are the birds that have wings but don’t know how to fly.

    • JeffH

      I rest my case.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    jopa,
    There is a difference between a Liberal and a Progressive.Hillery
    Clinton said as much on national TV,when she said, don`t call me a liberal,call me a Progressive.I have no problem with Liberals. they
    just have a different view than I have. I do have a big problem
    with Progressives as they (Obama and his Marxists buddies ) try to destroy America and our way of life. jopa, you better pay attention
    to what these people are saying and doing. The Democrat party is no more,it as been hijacked by the Progressive,Marxist, and Socialists
    of this country. H. Clinton said it ,not me.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Anti Union,
    You make very good points. If I was a Republican, I would be mad as Hell if all the money was being sent to the Democrat party. I guess,
    if you are a Republican, you don`t have a right to be a teacher.The unions don`t need to be in politics and if they are, need to send equal
    amounts to both parties (Dems and Repub. ) and any other party, that might be running for office.The unions and goverment sure don`t have
    a problem in making all religions equal,and so why not make all
    political parties equal?

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Jeffh
    Keep the presure on jopa.Maybee, someday he might wake up and
    figure out what he is. Hey jopa, what are you, a Liberal or Progressive?

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    I dont care what side your on, Republican or Democrat, Union or Non-Union, when your paid to do a job, especially that of a public servant, being paid with tax payer money, and you take off and reject your job and the work you are being paid to do, you should be fired and removed immediately. Try doing this in the public sector, telling your boss that you dont agree with him and your not coming to work, but your going to hide in another state until you feel like coming back. Just try it and see how long you have a job. So then why is this tolerated in the government sector? It should not be, and every last stinking one of these losers should be removed from their posts, immediately if not sooner.

  • http://deleted Claire

    Now I hear the farmers are getting involved in the protest. They are supposed to drive their tractors, etc. Anyone else hear this?

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Wiselady

    wiselady says:

    Enough with Unions!
    I hated the idea of paying dues to an organization that spent $7,000,00 in misc. I demanded the financial report of my Union and they did not like. Millions were spent in donations to the Democrats through PAC; and more millions on travels to Europe to study, “Educational Programs” for the improvement of our classrooms.

  • jopa

    Charles; You wanted to know if I am a Liberal or a Progressive.What I am is a registered Democrat but I will also vote for Republicans and Independants.Every party has good ideas,bad ideas, good candidates and bad.Somebody as bad as Hitler even had a couple of good ideas when he came up with the autobahn and the volkswagon.Now that you brought it up I’m not even a Democrat but just me, trying to make some sense out of today’s world.But you gotta admit it is great to be an American.

  • jopa

    Claire;Google “Farmer labor tractorcade” and it will give you the information on the farmers joining the protestors in Wisconsin.

    • http://deleted Claire

      jopa–I looked it up–Looks like there is going to be well over a thousand tractors there this Saturday. I also pulled up The Political Carnival–check it out.

  • http://comcast.net PRESTON W.ATHEY

    Here are some of the thing I beleive:I beleive America is the greatest Country in the world–I beleive the President will help the muslims faster then Americans–I beleive the United Nations should have no rights to send our troops anywhere in the world without our congresses approval,have’nt they been leaching off the U.S.A. long enough.(let another country support them a while)–I beleive we should bring our troops home,(stop the war for oil) and protect our borders.I beleive–Congressmen should retire at 67 years old,Any older and they would have trouble reading the 1000 page bills.lol
    I beleive The Federal Reserve SHOULD BE AUDITED,AND TURNED OVER TO THE FEDERAL GOVERMENT.I beleive the muslims are trying to take over this Country from the inside out. Thats it folks

  • jopa

    Claire;I do have an old Ford 9n tractor for yard work but to drive it to Wisconsin from the east coast it would be October before I got there.I did check out the Political Carnival and it looks to be an up and coming site.I did add it to my favorites to see what info they have in the future. Thanks.

  • http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=318515515322 AgreeToDisagree

    A 100 a day penalty? They won’t even feel it. Try 1% of annual salary per day. Or and followed by 1% of PERSONAL ASSETS per day. This is TREASON and 100 a day penalties do not reflect the seriousness of the crime. Meanwhile for graffiti, people get thousands in fines and jail terms. This is an extremely serious offense comparted to graffiti. They should be expelled from the HOR or the Senate or whatever at once for ‘running’. Whats wrong with the USA??? Look at all the Plutocratic Oligarchs below and vote them out! They have accrued extreme wealth and remained for unlimited terms in power, time to re-distribute EVERYTHING via the vote or via YOUR candidacy :

    Michael R. Bloomberg (R) Mayor, New York $4.8 billion
    Winthrop Rockefeller (R) Lt. Governor, Arkansas 1.2 billion
    B. Thomas Golisano (Ind) Gubernatorial candidate, New York 1.1 billion
    John Kerry (D) Senator, Massachusetts 550 million
    Tony Sanchez (D) Gubernatorial candidate, Texas 500 million
    Amo Houghton (R) Representative, New York 475 million
    Jon S. Corzine (D) Senator, New Jersey 300 million
    Herb Kohl (D) Senator, Wisconsin 250 million
    Jay Rockefeller (D) Senator, West Virginia 200 million
    Mark R. Warner (D) Governor, Virginia 200 million

    There are many more worth well over 50 million that should no longer be voted for. They are out of touch with reality. USA must not become ruled by a nation of plutocrats and oligarchs. Vote in some REAL Joe Publics worth not more than 20 million and this doesn’t mean a plumber who earns 250K a year!

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=36665503866

  • jopa

    Agreeto Disagree;Here we had the chance to raise their taxes by 3 pct in January and it was voted down.Oh well they are probably all worth the hundreds of millions they worked so hard for.The middle class can pay the tax bills.

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