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Obama’s Mixed Message On Taxes

September 13, 2010 by  

Obama's mixed message on taxes With the general elections approaching and many Democrats struggling to hold on to their seats, President Barack Obama has embarked on a series of campaign stops and speeches in which he sought to lessen fears of higher taxes and bigger government.

Although the president recently unveiled a $180 million investment spending plan designed to revamp the nation’s transportation infrastructure, he also proposed a tax break package of some $300 billion for businesses in order to spur job creation.

However, some economists, as well as politicians like House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio), said that the proposal may not produce the intended consequences because the government’s deficit continues to expand, creating uncertainties related to high interest rates and inflation.

Moreover, the White House has said it is sticking to its plan to let the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans expire at the end of this year, something the GOP says will further blunt the impact of tax breaks for businesses.

Still, Obama told an audience in Cleveland on Sept. 8 that preserving the Bush-era cuts "would have us borrow $700 billion over the next 10 years to give a tax cut of about $100,000 to folks who are already millionaires."ADNFCR-1961-ID-19938024-ADNFCR

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  • s c

    I can’t wait to see how Herr Obummer will penalize himself for being rich. In the event that he doesn’t know how to properly penalize himself, there are millions of fed up Americans who can supply him with a master list of suggestions that include what, how much and why. He does NOT have a clue. He never did.

    • dan az


    • Jim H.

      Joe, And no kiss when it’s done.

    • Bruce D.

      In reality Obama will put a heavy tax on everyone at some level. When he taxes Corporations it is a tax on the people as the cost of the product goes up to cover the tax. He is starting to use the word fees now so he does not have to use the word tax. As in most things he refuses to tell his true intent. He wants everyone to believe the top 1% or top top 20% of the population will pay all the taxes. He certainly does not want anyone to know every will pay more directly or indirectly. He needs to keep the figure under 51% of the people who are going to get hosed because he fears he will luse his job if he doesn’t. Many like to believe they are getting a free ride somhow and he plays into that.

      • 45caliber

        Yes, but there will still be enough tax loopholes that he and his friends can continue to pay low taxes – if they don’t simply ignore them.

        • Jan

          Like they do now? How many of his appointees and czars had tax problems — does Geithner come to mind?

        • Carole Howell

          Well those loop holes are supposed to be closed, but seriously, how can we expect to pay for these wars? I hear all the right winger talking about Soc. Sec. and Vet benefits being the problem that is inflating the debt, really?, the wars cost more that all the so-called entitlements put together. Come one people, must we cut every single social program to fund these wars, cut out the foster children programs, cut the income of the elderly just to be able to fund more war?

          Will these people be satisfied when we have homeless children and elderly on the street as a common sight, ragged and starving. What will we say, well it is a free country, they can live that way if they want and then look the other way. As we so often do now.

          We are spiraling downward toward 3rd world status.

          They say only rich people create jobs, so they should continue Bush’s tax cuts. Well people, they have had these tax cuts for 10 years now, where are the jobs. If that was to stimulate the economy, where are the jobs? All we have is the largest gap between the rich and poor than ever before in our history.

          What you want to continue a failed policy. 10 years is a decade.

          • Mack

            You poor delusional girl. When Republicans controlled Congress, we had low unemployment, High stock market, everyone was making money, because everone had a job! Democrats gained control ofthe Congress Nov. ’06. It took less than 2 years for them to wreck the economy, with Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, forcing Fanny Mae, and Freddy Mac to make loans to people who could not make the payments. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid over spending and increasing government beuracracy. They only needed Barack to join them to finish the job. Your statement about wars costing all the money is also untrue. Obama bailouts (which did nothing for the economy)cost more,leveraging your great grandkids future into infinity!

          • Lubo

            Carole….. Once again in your typical liberal style, you state things as facts and nothing could be further from the truth. Just the accumulative unfunded liabilities of all the “Progressive” entitlement programs to date , which is somewhere around 100 TRILLION +, could fund every American war to date, many times over!!!! You think maybe this is why our FOUNDERS warned us about this and set up our system as a REPUBLIC?

            You seem to fail to understand basic mathematics, a trend that I see thoughout the progressive mindset. I don’t know if it is a lack of IQ, honesty or just plain common sense? The fact is, YOUR PROGRESSIVE SYSTEM has bankrupt this country! It is nothing more than a DUMB PONZI scheme that could never be sustained in the first place. Anyone with an ounce of basic math skills or common sense could run the numbers and realize that this will not work, cannot work and never has anywhere on the PLANET. The results are ALWAYS the same, TRILLIONS of DOLLARS of debt left for the next generation to pay for! Who cares, right? It’s all about you in the NOW, isn’t it?

            Bottom line, you take things from people you do not know and you redistribute it to someone you have never met. How convenient! Then you walk around with your chest out PROUD of what you have done for your fellow man. It’s easy spending other folks hard earned money and then taking credit for a deed well done, now isn’t it!

            Since CHRIST JESUS didn’t demand that we give, then what makes you think you can? You think you are wiser than GOD? You think GOD will reward you for TAKING others folks hard earned money and redistributing it to the poor? Are you Robin Hood or the tax man? Both should have a very BAD day when they meet our FATHER IN HEAVEN.

            I personally will stick to GOD’s plan and give to whom my heart leads me too, if it is OK with you, and the ALL-Omnipotent progressives who give very little of their OWN money to the poor. Again, how convenient and how BIG of you to demand things from people you do not know and redistribute it to someone you have never met all in the name of “Social Justice” or “Collective Salvation”. Your earthly philosphy flies in the FACE of GOD THE FATHER because you attempt to usurp HIS POWER,GLORY and WISDOM, cleverly cloaked in your marxist intentions for AMERICA.

            Let me make a suggestion to you, you EARN your money and you do with it whatever your little heart desires and leave my business to me! What I do with my money is none of your concern nor should you or anyone in the federal government have ANY control over it!

            How about a national sales tax where ALL AMERICANS participate in the AMERICAN DREAM, not just a few hard workers picking up the tab for a bunch of lazy dope smoking slackers or other 3rd generation welfare folks who do nothing but eat, gain more weight, have more illegitimate babies and then BITCH about AMERICA.

          • Denniso

            The Bush tax cuts of 8 or nine yrs ago had the expiration date written
            into the legislation. The Repubs pretend they are concerned about the debt,yet they stand up proudly for renewing the tax cuts for the top 2% of Americans which will add about $700 billion to the debt…The gap between rich and poor in our country widened in the past 10 yrs w/ wages for working people stagnating, and the Repubs think the rich need to continue getting their tax cut? Ridiculous!! They are also lying about small biz being hurt by the allowing of the tax cut for the rich to expire…absurd again! Almost no actual small biz has a net profit above a quarter million $$. Small biz people don’t usually pay themselves much in direct salary as they can get deductions for travel,cars,expenses. If the owner of a business has a taxable income of over $250,000, then she/he is one of the rich and can afford a few more thousand in taxes ea year.

          • Ozel01

            Yes, delusional would be quite on track. Here are some accurate numbers for you. Social Security and Medicare (B4 the Obamacare fiasco) held UNFUNDED MANDATES of $105 trillion. Iraq War in its entirity, according to numbers published by the CBO on Aug 30 2010, cost $709 Billion. The Afghanistan War has cost somewhere around $350 Billion. These two wars in their entirity don’t come close to touching the nearly $3 trillion in spending we have had the last two years. The U.S. deficit for fiscal year 2010 is expected to be $1.3 trillion, according to CBO. That compares to a 2007 deficit of $160.7 billion and a 2008 deficit of $458.6 billion, according to data provided by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget. In 2007 and 2008, the deficit as a percentage of gross domestic product was 1.2 percent and 3.2 percent, respectively. Relative to the size of the economy, this year’s deficit is expected to be the second largest shortfall in the past 65 years; 9.1 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), exceeded only by last year’s deficit of 9.9 percent of GDP. Now what exactly were you arguing for? More spending on borrowed money and time? Currently, .43 cents per every dollar spent by the government is borrowed money. Well, that may be down a little now as China and others have started to put the brakes on the national credit line.

          • denniso

            You’re using numbers for the wars that are direct costs, and the wars are not over yet. Everyone agrees that the total cost of each will be around a trillion dollars,at least, and that doesn’t include the 40 or 50 yr cost of med care for all the injured and maimed.

            Bush almost exactly doubled the national debt in his terms from 5 to 10 trillion dollars. The crash began under Bush and he rightly began the very necessary bailouts and support for the financial sector…Obama continued on the same path that almost ALL economists said was vital to prevent a serious global depression.Obama also extended unemployment benefits and helped states remain solvent in order to mitigate the disaster and control it.

            The stock market is up by 65% from it’s low of 6700 after the crash. If Bush and Obama had done nothing,like the Repubs want, we would most probably be in a deep depression that would make the ’29 depression look like a picnic.

            This was the biggest collapse since the Great Depression and even w/ help the economy can’t just bounce back. I’m amused when people w/ no economics education actually think they know precisely what we should have done for the recession…

          • thinking

            Speaking of the rich, do you know that more democrates are rich then republicans in congress? Do you think rich democrates will pay more? They have so many thinking they will take from the rich (themself) and give to the poor, yet the poor blame the problems on republicans because democrates say they will tax the rich more. Where in this country is this right to attack and take from the successful? There will be two classes in this country, the poor and the government. Time to change this! out with Obama

      • guyb

        Nice,You hit the nail on the head!!!!!! Obamas team does not pay all there taxes and have plenty of investments outside of the U.S.A. and george soros will payoff anyone who tries to make obama show his real birth certificate.geoege soros owns the oil exploration company that obama just gave a 10 billion dollar contract to explore for oil off of brazil while cutting off jobs in the gulf for Americans.Obama and pelosi and reid cut the water to 50,000 farm workers and farms in northern california and said some 2 inch delta smelt could go extinct. How come pelosi gets all the water she wants for her multi million dollar northern california vineyards but our farmers stand in a food line? We can raise 2 inch delta smelt on one acre of delta water by the millions so obama and reid and pelosi value smelt over the peolpe of America.When will America wake up and vote these far left democrats out of office.America,obama and pelosi and reid have sold us out.

        • Carole Howell

          Oh! yeah guyb,
          Lets put all republicans back into power, that will work. And when it only gets worse, what will you say then, guyb? I know you will blame Obama during their whole term.

          As long as big business runs this nation, nothing will change, does not matter what party APPEARS to be running things.

          • guyb

            Hello Carole, What I want is for our president to be held to the same standards they hold us to. I want a president who was born in America. Why do you think he will not show his birth certificate and george soros has to buy off anyone who asks him for it?Obama promised c-span so all of America can see who is working for the people and who is working against the people. I guess no c-span after his big promise means he does not want America to see our president and pelosi and reid have been selling us out. What better way to get re-elected than to have c-span to show us all him and pelosi and reid are fighting for America? If you lie to congress its a felony, If congress lies to the American people they get a raise!!!!!

          • Arlene

            Since Osama blames EVERYTHING that is wrong on George Bush, it’s only fair for us to blame that un-American, lying, facist, for something… right??????

          • a progressive nightmare

            Carole……Not to worry my little liberal friend. The progressive nightmare is about to come to an end, this november. If we can elect enough common sense conservatives, then you will see this country get put back on tract, quickly, very quickly. Notice I made no reference to the Dems or the GOP. Bottom line, “It’s the spending Stupid!” and anyone who has participated in this money printing and spending scheme is GUILTY of stupidity, regardless of party affiliation.

        • Lubo

          guyb…..Well PUT!!! BEA-UTI-MUS!!!!

    • guyb

      Look,Obama will not have to pay the same as other rich people. There are many countries that have put in place swiss style banking systems where you can have an account and no one knows you have it. How do you think george soros and other wealthy types buy off our elected officals. They get uncontested contracts and recieve billions of dollars and it is easy to through lots of payoff money to those who send it there way….Why do you think there is no c-span to show America who is working for who???? I know Obama promised c-span,but that was to get our votes. Obama and pelosi and reid can not let c-span in the white house or we would all know that the far left democrats are not for the American people.

      • Bruce D.

        Between the War on Terror and The War on Drugs banks have fallen under Americn dominance all over the world. The IRS is beginning to exert its influence over those who have foreign accounts. It is not wide open like it was in the past. The rich do have legal foundations to shield some of their wealth. The rich along with those making over 250,000 a year pay most of the income tax in this country so they are paying taxes. Locally if someone has a 5 million dollar house he may be paying $75,000 a year in property tax. To say the rich to not pay taxes is really just class warfare and not based in any reality.

    • EddieW

      Obummer, the great liar will peddle more lies, when they already have a tax increase of over 20% that’s going to happen in Jan!!! he’s afraid a few of his Dem’s will lose their seats, because of his misdeeds!!! and they dern well better..they are totally corrupt!!
      They will not settle for less than taxing us of 90% of our income!!! Then we all be poor!!!

      • campfire

        Your right Eddie W on the liar part but from my position I don’t think he is very good at it. This is the only part of his campaign is transparant.
        If one can’t tell what a liar he is we are in deep do do.

  • Kookie

    Obama’s staffers should be made to pay their back taxes which would really help the economy. Tax relief should be for everone, even the rich. they work for their money too and spend it too. Let’s not be favoring certain groups. Let’s get back to equality.


      I don’t think a couple of billion dollars will put much of a dent in trillion dollar deficits.

      • Craig

        Yeah why not, doing things that are criminal should be rewarded, not punished. The heck with doing the right thing.


      Better yet, let’s put them in jail where they belong!

      • Jo

        The penalty for treason is hanging… hang ‘em high!

        • http://naver samurai

          How about a firing squad? I’ve got an M-16 I can use! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Craig

            Personally I like the idea of Seppeku. At least their last act on this earth, would be one of honor. Granted that would also be the first time in their pathetic lives they acted with honor.

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Firing squads are for men of honor. Hanging or guilitene is more appropriate.

          • Carole Howell

            Be sure to start with the lying, cheating murders, who went before.

            But even then we will still have the same problems, as our whole system is corrupted, as long as our politicians are bought and paid for by big business, there will be no change.

            Publicly financed elections is the only way. We must work for that and until we get it, we will always lose. We will continue to be robbed and cheated.

          • http://naver samurai

            Ok Carol, we can start with Bill, Hillary, Nancy, Harry, Barbara, Al, Tipper, etc., are these good enough to start with? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Nancy

            That would be too easy of a death, they need to suffer, why not use the sharia law and stone them, they need to feel pain, just like we do now!!

    • guyb

      obama and pelosi and reid have soldout America. Can you say prayer rug???? America,your tax dollars are building and funding 29 mosques in 18 different countries and no jobs were created for you,just your tax dollars were used.Change,Can you say Change????America,you voted for change without knowing what change you were voting for.OKAY,Americans were scamed.Lets all vote these far left traitors out of office.America,lets take back our great nation!!!!!!Lets force anyone who runs for office to keep there promises.Remember obama promised c-span so America would be able to see who was working for the people and who was working against the people.Since there is no c-span My guess is that obama and reid and pelosi are working against the American people or c-span would be all over the white house so we could all see the great job they were doing… What better way to get voted back in but to show America they are doing all they can for the American people????America,Lets vote these far left anti Americans out of office.

      • Carole Howell

        When Obama said that he thought that would shed some light for the American people on how things work behind closed doors, but he has no power and no way would the powers that be allow that light to be shed. It would be their down fall.

        Take a look at who blocked that idea of everything being made public. It was not Obama. Our presidents no longer have much power, the last real president we had was assassinated. That was the beginning of our puppet system. As with all other nations who have their leader assassinated, the country makes a turn for the worst. ALWAYS

        • guyb

          Hello Carole, I know you might say that our president does not have much power but I would have to say you need to think again. He is the most powerful person on the planet!!!!!He can veto and create bills to be voted on then sway votes for those bills. We perish for a lack of knowledge!!!!

          • Victor

            ALL you people critizing the President are on the Wrong Track.
            Face the facts. The Republicans caused our Great Depression and Trillion Dollar Deficit.
            Now they are opposing everything the President tries to do to improve the economy and create more jobs = JUST TO TRY TO GAIN CONTROL OF CONGRESS IN NOV. AND ABOLISH EVERYTHING THE PRESIDENT HAS ACCOMPLISHED. Are you all blind? Can*t you see that?
            I am an 85 year old Retired USMC and use my own mind. And I am a Republican, but I despise what the Republicans are doing including Sara Palin and the Tea Party people. They are using the minds of Lobbyists instead of their own as what is Right or Wrong for the People and Country. And they brainwash the people and then you brainwahed people criticize the President. Not very smart.
            The economy is in a mess and it takes time and money to get better and the Republicans and ohers think it can be done by tomorrow. so they use the slow recovey as a weapon to criticize the Democrats. Hogwash.

          • http://naver samurai

            Victor and Carol, can we have something other than the same old tiring rhetoric from the left wing extremists? Please cite your sources. Victor, thanks for your service, I have 20 years. I always though a marine lived by the semper fi code, have you lost that motivation over the years? Well, marine, this fight is about taking our country back to the ways we were founded. Are you with us devil dog? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Nancy

            Carole, you do remember the healthcare bill,that’s Obama’s baby and it sucks big time, pray that you never get sick cause Obamacare won’t lift a finger to help you, he don’t care if your a democrat and voted for him, won’t do you any good…people who voted for this racist muslim sure got fooled and for some stupid reason, you cannot see what he’s doing to us, guess your just a glutton for punishment!

        • a progressive nightmare

          Carole Howell….I bet Bush did it!!!!

          You state that our president doesn’t have any real power??? You mean Oblama convinced the congress to commit political suicide with his radical agenda that WE THE PEOPLE did not want, yet he has no real power? He can over-ride a JUDGE on the ruling in the Gulf but he has no real power? He will not enforce our existing federal laws on immigration but then sues Arizona but has no real power? He has the option to VETO any bill passed through congress but has no real power? He holds the keys to the largest store of nuclear weapons on planet earth but has no real power?

          Are you just a naive progressive or what?

  • Richard B

    This statement by Obama… told an audience in Cleveland on Sept. 8 that preserving the Bush-era cuts “would have us borrow $700 billion over the next 10 years to give a tax cut of… Only means that the government is spending at least $700 billion more than it should be in that next 10 years.
    They seem to forget that money has not been coming their way for the past 10 years. They shouldn’t spend what they don’t have!!!

    • Pat

      Since he lies about everything, I stopped believing anything he says. He has to go and everything he has done has to go. All the race baiting and class warfare need to go too and a president who belittles and insults whole groups of Americans has to stop. Lots of things have to stop actually. This guy is sooooo bad.

      • bob

        I agree with you that he and all of his cronies need to go. Any president that would put Muslims before Americans needs to be impeached.

      • Mike

        Where were you from 2001 to 2008? In all of these years where were the budget assessment for the wars, the tax cuts and the shipment of our jobs overseas …. Oh! I see don’t talk about and it does not exist. Suffer from the things you were silent about and the things you let happen without giving a response. You and I broke it, lets not punish those that are trying to fix It.

        • Christin

          Quit the having flashbacks, Mike, unless you are tripping on drugs.

          Americans were waking up in Bush’s second term (maybe even during Clinton), but were not organized until the hyper-drive speed was set on explode by your illegal Godless marxist puppet, BO (aka BS) who:

          He doesn’t want the American dream (for you).
          He doesn’t want to follow the Constitution of the US of A.
          He doesn’t want a Christian nation.
          He doesn’t want free market capitalism.
          He doesn’t want the small businesses to succeed.
          He doesn’t want you to own a large private company or make a large salary or even be a CEO unless you are one of his.
          He doesn’t want us to stay united as a people & citzens of this nation.
          He doesn’t want to cut taxes.
          He doesn’t want to secure the borders.
          He doesn’t want to drill for oil, gas and mine coal for independence.
          He doesn’t want Free Speech (shut the conservative news outlets up.)
          He doesn’t want to eliminate the harsh business regulations to bring them back here to be a producing nation again.
          He doesn’t want you to own a gun or weapons for defense. (Wait for the tax April 15th.)
          He doesn’t want the small farmer to produce food or to keep his land.
          He doesn’t want you to have wealth & land, God, guns or gold.
          Heck, he doesn’t even care if you live… see obamacare.

          Now you wake up and join those that will bring back a Christian God-fearing nation, our economy, jobs, pride in our land and peace through strength mentality.

          • Vlad

            You are right, Christin, Husein Obama wants to turn America first to the clueless and helpless Greece, and then to Sudan. Obamunism is just a station on the railroad to serfdom, while the final destination is islamofascism. Otherwise why should he push through 3 weeks ago Sharia Constitution in his native Kenya, where only 12% of population oare Muslims?

          • guyb

            WOW!!!!! You are right on!!!!!! Lets vote in a real American into office…. Lets vote in someone born in America and that george soros can not buy off.I just went to get my birth certificate and it costs 17 dollars. If obama really has a real American birth certificate then why does he not just show it and be done???? Hey Mr.President, How about keeping some of your big promises like c-span so America can see who is working for the people and who is working against the people.Are you and pelosi and reid so scared the American people might find all you are for a one world order where we all do as we are told and that you have sold us out?????

          • http://naver samurai

            Now that is a very motivating speech christin. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot. FOR GOD (not allah) AND COUNTRY!

      • guyb

        I am with you….. Lets stop all the racist comments and get on with the truth. If obama does not get his way then the democrats play the race card.Look, If obama had a good policy of anykind then all of America would be for it and no race game would even be mentioned…Lets get back to obamas promises,remember c-span???? If obama and pelosi and reid were on the side of the American people then c-span would be all over the white house so America could see the great job they all are doing. Oh,no c-span tells me obama and pelosi and reid do not want America to see there evil deeds….Lets vote a real American into office,one who loves our great nation.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Richard B… Excellent point! Government spending is way out of control. I still think enacting the fair tax is the only way to go. Abolish the IRS. How much fairer can it be? Everyone pays the same amount of tax on their purchases. That way if Michele deems it necessary to spend $2000.00 on a pair of shoes, she will have to pay the tax on a purchase of $2000.00. My shoes will cost $20.00, so I will pay much less. The elite people who are running our government do not want the fair tax. The IRS has too many loopholes that they or their lawyers use to get out of paying taxes. Support the fair tax. Urge your elected men and women to support a bill for it! Then the rest of the taxes could be abolished…

    • BigBadJohn

      “They shouldn’t spend what they don’t have”

      Agree this is one of the biggest reasons I hated Bush and the republicans, they spent more than all previous presidents combined! Now Obama and the democrats are doing the same thing!

      Plain simple truth – It is the American public’s fault, who would vote for a candidate that ran on a platform of cutting benefits and raising taxes at the same time to pay down the debt?

      • Bweez

        You know, BigBadJ, it has only been through these last two years that I’ve been aware that the Republicans have been so fiscally irresponsible but, it does anger me. I think we should REPLACE every congressperson that has not paid their taxes, has written hot checks (seems to be an epidemic of that one,) taken bribes, or done anything else that the common man/woman would GO TO JAIL FOR! Wouldn’t THAT clean house? But we would give them all what they’re entitled to… fair and speedy trials! Then, we could start on the lobbying industry… THAT is the slimiest bunch of sludge I’ve ever heard about. We’d need a whole bureaucratic wing just to get it done. (Is that an oxymoron?;-) . Hmmmm…I wonder if we could get VOLUNTEERS for the job? VOLUNTEERS ANYONE? (no pay, no bribes and no kickbacks allowed)

      • http://Yahoo Jim

        The unprecidented spending came from a Democratic Congress that was in control while Pres. Bush was in office.

        • BigBadJohn

          Jim, Please check your facts. The republicans controlled both houses and the presidency from 2000 – 2006.

          • Jim H.

            BBJ, The senate was Dem 01&02, then again 07 till now.

          • BigBadJohn

            Jim I stand corrected…

            “The small Republican Majority would last until May 24, 2001 when Republican Senator Jim Jeffords of Vermont left the Republican Party and became an Independent who chose to caucus with the Democrats.”

            The democrats controlled the senate because of ONE republican changing parties to an independent. I don’t think that really counts as democrat controlled. Besides as everyone here likes to point out – only the congress can spend money, and that was republican controlled.

        • Bette P

          The Democrat Congress was in control the last two years of Bush’s term.
          Congress controls the money, not the President unless you are Obama and then you just bypass Congress.

          Obama voted in a lot of this mess the last two years of Bush’s term.

          • BigBadJohn

            Of course you are overlooking the fact that the president has VETO power. What is that everyone complains about Obama, something like “the buck does not stop here”?
            Why do all of the Bush supporters not hold Bush to the same standard? If you did, the doubling of the national debt was all Bush’s fault for not vetoing spending bills….

    • Carole Howell

      Richard B

      Hello, wars are exceedingly expensive, and when you privatize a great portion of them, hey, they get even more expensive. Hello Richard are you in there.

      Check the cost of these wars.

  • Doc Sarvis

    The Bush tax cuts should end and probably should never have been put in place. I can’t see that those tax cuts benefitted anyone else other than the rich and increased the gap between the poor/middle class and the rich.

    • Woody

      You seem to forget EVERY tax rate was cut. So everyone got to keep more of the money THEY earned.
      Even WITH the tax cut, the ‘rich’ are STILL paying more than the lower income families (it is simple math).
      My sister and I BOTH find $1.
      She pays taxes at a 15% rate so she has 85 cents left.
      I pay taxes at a 33% rate so I have 67 cents left. Explain how I ‘got over’ on the system by being in a higher tax bracket.

      • tg7357

        Please let me know when Doc puts a spin on your post and makes it all your fault, not the gov’s, that you only get to take home 67 cents out of every dollar. I can’t wait to hear this one! Your post was right on the money, Woody! I wish I was only paying 15% taxes, too.

      • BigBadJohn

        Woody, you are correct all taxes were cut. However, out of a 400 billion tax cut, 40% of that tax cut went to the richest 1%, the rest was spread across the other 99%.

        • Bob

          BBJ I ended up with a whopping $ 200.00 for the year. Just enough for 1 hour with a high priced hooker.

          • Dan

            So is that envy I see peeking out because even though you got a tax break like everyone else, your take home amount wasn’t as big as the guy making more money. What you fail to realize is that he contributed more in taxes than you probably make.
            Don’t like it then do something to increase your income and quit whining about what someone else makes.


          • BigBadJohn

            There is a wide discrepancy in income even in the top 5%. A friend of mine was laughing about one of his workers bragging about the $500 dollar tax break he got, my friend pointed out that his tax break was over $50,000.
            Sorry, but I believe taxes should be based on percentages across the board and not targeted at specific items or incomes. I think EVERYTHING, capital gains, dividends, stock options, interest, and wages should all be counted as income, with no loopholes.

          • BigBadJohn

            Dan, actually there is a very good chance that last year I paid more in taxed then you made….

        • alpha-lemming

          AND… guess what… The rich are paying a HIGHER percentage of the tax burden now than they did before they got the tax cuts!! Regardless… new level, old level… they still pay the lions share to keep government running (bottom 50% of wage earners pay ~1 or 2% of the tax burden… bottom 75% pay ~10%). So…. if you give tax cuts…. don’t you have to give it to the people who PAY the taxes???? Or should we give up the pretense and just demand 100% fund transfer on everything over $250K?? Guess how many people would be making over $250K if that were the case??

          • Bob

            Alpha In a couple years we’ll all be picking thru the same dumpsters.

      • Carole Howell

        Woody, a country never reduces taxes during war time, Duh….it is simple math, your debt will grow at a much faster rate with tax cuts at a time when you are quadruplicating your spending…….Duh!

        How daft are you people, it was designed to cripple us, that is how they legitimize their call for reducing social spending. It was designed to cripple us economically and look it worked.

        This is not rocket science here. Does it make sense to you? Hey my expenses are increasing tremendously, so what will I do?, hey, I will cut my hours at work and bring in less money…………yeah is that what we would all do?

        Never before in the history of the world has a government cut taxes while waging a war…..Duh!

        God…We….are….sooo…..dumb. Dumb as bricks..

        Notice our MSM does not even talk about this, not even mentions it and distracts us, so we do not talk about it, and it works, we are so dumb, they lead us around like we have rings in our noses. It works for them like magic. Cause we are so dumb we cannot think ourselves out of a paper bag. We are so sick to allow this. We are doomed, doomed. We cannot see reality when it stares us in the face. Our reality is literally invented for us. We are doomed people, cause we only use the talking points given to us by the gov and MSM, we never come up with any of our own.

        • http://naver samurai

          Carole, you have forgotten one thing also. That is you also don’t cut military spending during a war either. Obama bin Laden has been playing with the absurd idea of cutting our troops paychecks. Why would this man, or anyone else, even think about cutting our troops pay during wartime? We need to reopen many of these posts and increase the number of personnel in our ranks. If you ask about where we can get the money? That’s easy! Just overturn or not fund Osamacare and them you have the money. Don’t you think we need that money for our military personnel pay, equipment, training, weapons, etc., during wartime? They need these things more than government run healthcare for a bunch of slackers! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • See It Through!

      Hey, ALL You Guys! Charity is just that — charity. If I have invested my sweat, time and money in a project that takes off and I get RICH (Bill Gates, eg) and I feel I have a responsibility to help the poor who didn’t chase a dream and invest themselves, GREAT! I’ll give them money out of my pocket. But I’ll also pay about 60% of my earnings in income taxes. My company employs about 2000 people. Because I risked my being to succeed, get rich and gave many others a good livelihood, you say I should be penalized — even more? We are the very people who should be encouraged to succeed, because WE BIULT THIS COUNTRY. Taxes, unions (recently) and self-serving politicians ARE DESTROYING IT, and all belong in the same jar of formalin as a relic of the past as the United States of America COMES ALIVE AGAIN!

      • Tom

        Here! Here!

        I have been preaching to many that the unions are destroying this country. Unions are more corrupt than Washington. Talk about Socialism at its best – look at the unions in America…

        I interviewed my Grandfather (God rest his Soul) many years ago about the depression for an assignment for school. In the conversation, he started to talk about unions. Yes, he said they had a purpose during the early 1900′s. Then the unions became unnecessary, but couldn’t let go of their power. He told me, THIRTY YEARS AGO, that the unions in the United States would be the downfall of this country.

        Boy… wasn’t he right.

        • Bob

          The unions sold out the workers on Nafta after pretending to be against it.

    • http://naver samurai

      Bush, baaaaa! Rich tax cuts, baaaaa! “messiaaaaaaaaaaaaah!” Can you all come up with something other than the same old BS over and over again? Before the Bush tax cuts, I was paying 25% in taxes and now I’m paying 20% and I’m nowhere near being rich. Doc must be attending regular sheeple meetings. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • PO’d Texas gal

    s c: Obombus doesn’t CARE what us fed-up Americans think. He does as HE pleases. Heard him say, on The View, that this is his “first term”. Ha! Guess he’s counting on all those illegal aliens, as well as those still waiting for their 40 acres and a mule, to keep him in office.

    Kookie: Great idea about the staffer’s back taxes. Michelle should be made to get rid of 27 of her 28 personal staffers.

    Before he spends more of our tax dollars on ANYthing, we fed-up Americans should demand to know exactly where the other stimulus money went.

    • TIME

      Texas Gal,
      I agree with all you posted, as well let me just add in a few points.

      Barry Soetoro is doing just what he planned on doing CRASHING our system into a total mess. I am sure we all have been told by someone at some point in your life this absurd statment;
      {Do as I tell you not as I do.}

      There’s the problem, with Barry anyone with even the most basic form of common sense can grasp that its “all 100% Rhetoric” that he speaks.
      TRUTH from Barry is kind of like saying it never snows on the South Pole. Both are never going to happen.

      Sure TAX the hell out of everyone and what will that prove, that we are under a “STATE RUN government” and that we the little People are little more than {Slaves to the State.}
      Thats what he working toward, how many more will be on the Public Aid books by January 2011? The numbers have quadrupled in 19 months, how many more by January 2012? Everyone in the US?

      Can we even dare ask such questions Anylonger?
      Keep in mind Congress in back today, what new destruction by way of new laws have they for us?
      Can you say, Take away the Internet?
      Take away your job?
      Take away your home?
      Take away your Freedoms that are left?
      Take away your childrens future?
      Take away your pride?
      Take away your life as you know it by way of Cap & Trade? Yes we know that it will make the really Wealthy even more so, hey Al Gore stands to make Billions in months of its starting up, Trillions in just a few years, so just how are the old dangling chads working out Al?

      They all gotta go people.

      The Democrats are not even noting what they have done you all know the all the alledged wounderful things they did for you, as you so wanted these things done. So why is that again?

      And just whats the Republicans problems with being the advocates they were hired to be by standing up to this gang of thugs even being out numbered?
      I have stood up when I was out numbered many times, 9 out of 10 time people back down when someone stands even alone.
      Yes sure I have taken a few bullets, even been stabed a few times, I still not only WON, I walked away and they didn’t.
      Stand UP, Wake Up and do what you have to do.

      The media also needs a good house cleaning; and just for the record if we don’t fix that problem the rest of them will just keep right on trucking.

      Don’t turn on the TV, don’t buy news papers unless they report the “TRUTH.” No TRUTH No Business.

      Then the UNIONS have to go, their time has passed.

    • Sylvia Rangel

      Stimulus money went to the muslims.

      God Bless to USA.

  • Mark

    I hope and pray to God that NO ONE is listening to this rhetoric b.s. As soon as the elections are over it will be back to business. Far left extremist dems are backpedaling as hard as they can. Anyone that buys their lies is a fool. Dems like Robin Carnahan in Missouri are nothing but obama puppets and butt kissers. Carnahan is the path to more tyranny. No I ain’t republican, or democrap, I believe in my freedom and my liberty. I believe in honor and God. Send the muslims back where they came from. Send the mexcans back where they came from. Linch pelosi and obama and carnahan in the same hangin’. Please DO NOT listen to these back pedaling fools, liars and cheats. They will turn on you like two week old roses. Locked and Loaded.

    • PO’d Texas gal

      No fool here. I haven’t believed a word he’s said since he was a candidate promising “Change”. The guy’s a liar, a fraud, a Marxist and an illegal alien. The only ones who believe him are the kool-aid drinking dumbocrats.

      • Dr. Alan Cochin

        You are right on the money! Although I prefer to think of obummer as a left wing progressive Marxist, Muslim, Dumbocrat who under the political sway of George Soros is selling us down the drain in order to bankrupt and ruin the United States financially and politically.When I did my time in the Army,(honorable discharge, 1967), Treason was defined as “Giving aid and comfort to the enemy, the United States then being in a state of War!” It still is, We are at war now, he and his associates are clearly guilty of Treason as well as other high crimes and misdemeanors, (which define incompetence in government), They NEED TO BE IMPEACHED NOW!

    • Keeper



      Along with Robyn, Russ and Claire as well.

      • Claire

        Conservative at Birth–You mentioned my name? What are you referring to? I hope nothing bad.

  • J.M.R.


  • J.M.R.


  • maxi

    I have no problem with the wealthier richer class of people and I believe they should not be overburdened on taxes either, If the rich class is brought to the level of the rest of us we have socialism. Next could be communism I am in favor or neither. I admire people who can find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and make it good in this life, I don’t want to see everyone poor that would also make us a third world country. that may be where we are heading anyway. If I were God and thank God I am not I would allow America to run the race into the sewer we are headed for. We have become a very greedy, godless, and humanistic country. When we believe in the things damed by God that is what we are.

    • Sylvia Rangel

      MAXI I agree with you 100%. If they are rich is because they or their parents worked very hard. I like to be free, I like the free market,


  • Rush Housel

    Obama will say anything to keep his democratic support for his agenda.
    Pay special attention to what he has done in the first 22 months. Obama has lied about his citizenship, birth certificate, lower taxes, healthcare, Illegal immigration, Iraq, Afghanistan, end runs around congress, bail out programs, Obama’s concern for the american people, The BP Oil spill, The economy, Muslim affiliation, Rev Jeremiah Wright, Acorn, Bill Ayers, George Soros, SEIU, ACLU, Racial descrimination with the DOJ and Eric Holder. Pell Grants, you name it Obama has lied about it. Obama wants NASA to be a nursemaid to Muslim countries. Obama is suing Arizona over ILLEGAL immigration. Obama would like to see the Mosque at the site of the World Trade Center. Obama has put the U.S. on the edge of bankruptcy. Obama keeps apologizeing to these corrupt countries for the actions of the Unite States of America for saving there asses. WHY BELIEVE ANYTHING OBAMA HAS TO SAY, he is a CON-MAN Look at the unscruplous and crimal individuals he has surrounded himself with as his advisors. Obama’s record speaks the truth not his words!!!

    • PO’d Texas gal

      Excellent post! Add transparency to that list.

      There’s a guy in my political chat group who supports everything BO says and does regardless of how outrageous his actions are. He thinks the sob is a great man; just what this country needs!

      Several of us conservatives showed him a list of the bad things BO’s done to this country. The idiot DENIED every point, saying they’re all lies. So we asked the guy to show us a list of all the good things BO’s done. He claimed he didn’t have to prove his beliefs and refused to list anything.

      He’s just one example of how blindly acquiescent so many people are. Have they been brainwashed or what? I don’t understand it and never will.

      • mickey

        If your friend is a true believer, how much money does he have? And if he has a good job, why isn’t he giving all but the minimum wage back to the government to feed some more illegals? And ask him how much of obama’s money is going back. Maybe you should start with Michelle and her “Evita” thing.

        obama needs to be impeached. Clinton did a lot to destroy us with his policies but was impeached on what? An affair (obstruction of justice)?

        The only good thing is when obama shows up the candidates lose.

        I never captitalize his name for a reason and never call him “president”. He isn’t a president for the US, only a puppet for the NWO.

        Oh, and the union people are beginning to wise up too. They are tired of their hard earned money going to losing campaings. Millions raped from the very organization they support. In the end, the company will just transfer their jobs over seas. Sad.

      • mickey

        Oh, yeah, maybe you should also ask him which neighborhood obama has selected for him with obama’s infrastructure plan. Doesn’t he know he is being pre-selected for an urban destination? BTW, didn’t Hitler create the autoban (infrastructure) during his raign?

    • Keeper


  • David in Ma.

    obama has found himself, and his gang, in that place all liers find themselves.

    Trapped by their own lies.


    Take our the trash! Take out the DEMONcRATS!!!

    John Boehner for Prez in 2012!!!!

  • tg7357

    “With the general elections approaching and many Democrats struggling to hold on to their seats, President Barack Obama has embarked on a series of campaign stops and speeches in which he sought to lessen fears of higher taxes and bigger government.”~~~~Well, chalk up another big ‘it ain’t working, Barky!!’ for the Man. Does this guy EVER stop campaigning? Didn’t someone tell him he won the election almost 2 years ago already? Sheeesh! I wish someone would shove him off the stump and let another person talk for a while!!!

    • 45caliber

      Considering that they have already increased the size of government and increased taxes and talking about more new ones, I can’t see how he plans to make the people believe he isn’t going to add more.

  • David Brugger

    I guess the whole tax cut argument boils down to this: Who do you trust? The government has been extracting huge taxes from all of us and have basically failed at the majority of it’s programs. People who earn large amounts of money are usually successful because they have learned to manage money and reinvest it in a way that results in success and progress.

    The government has proven that they can’t manage: a post office, railroads, infrastructure management, national parks, wars, education, welfare, inflation, earmark spending, food safety, oil well safety, disaster relief, mortgage lending, bank regulation, Wall Street regulation, the environment, adhering to the constitution, foreign relations, immigration and countless other government managed programs.

    The people who are successful enough to make over $200,000 have proven that they can do many things well, and can spend and invest their funds wisely. The federal and most state governments have proven thay can’t. Who should we trust with our future?

    • tg7357

      Well said!! I haven’t trusted the Feds for years now. Everything they touch is a mess. Wealthy people are wealthy because they know how ot manage, maintian and aquire their money. Maybe they should have a seminar for Washington??

      • TIME

        TG They don’t want one, ask yourself why would they when they can just steel what ever money from all of us?
        Yes more so from us who have made a lot of it, and never let the media tell you differantly.

        • tg7357

          Hey, I know what you mean. I’ve never seen a poor man give another person a job. I know thats kind of a worn -out adage, but its true.
          Enterprenuers are probably going to be the only thing that pulls this economy back from the cliff. The Feds sure aren’t doing anything about it!

          • 45caliber

            Entrapenuers are too handicapped right now to get started. The first two people anyone trying to start a business MUST hire is a safety expert and an environmental expert. Otherwise you will never get permission to build a business. Or you would get shut down very quickly. Then you have to have state and local licenses and perhaps even a few federal ones. Then you have to have inspectors come in every month or so to insure you really are doing the work you said you were doing. You have to have reams of files showing that you have considered and made a solution for ALL conceivable problems – and it must be a solution the government agrees with.

            Generally by the time a prospective small businessman gets through seeing what is required to start, he doesn’t have enough money left to actually start.

  • SH

    Well it appears our Pres. is stuck between a rock and hard place from the perspective of critical analysis concerning his administration’s policy making and presentation process. On one hand we the people with our fastfood, must have an answer right now metalities are not as aware of the time it takes to make the best and right decision on behalf of a whole country. Oh sure, we know what is is to make a decision on behalf of ourselves , families , congregations, cities or regions and perhaps even a state but not the entire economic structure of the United States of America. So we are quick to coplain and criticize and listen to critics who egg us on. When a quick solution is presented we scoff and call it socialist doctrine. However the other solution is to borrow and go further into debt than we already are. But at least the people of the today will look like heroes as such would be quietly and coservatively done. the conservatives are very well aquainted with character damge control and cover ups. It won’t hurt them until later and later is right now. I encourage all financial leaders single mothers included to communicate ideas to our National financial leaders. It’s time to put on our thinking caps as a nation rather than complaining and communicate wisely with our Government. Perhaps, like the state of Wisconsin’s income tax inititive, someone or some region will present an idea that is healthy for us all in the long haul. Finally, with how things are doubling back and forth with all the negotiations on Capital Hill and within the White House I question the depth and breadth of the foresight of our leaders in Washington, D. C. There are those, within the Financial arena, who actually saw alll this coming and gave warning as far back as ten years ago. They did not listen and now there constituents are suffering due to their deafness to the voice of Wisdom. Many people are doing just fine finacially who did listen. 10 foolish and 10 wise. W@ho’s side you leanin on ?

    • Bweez

      SH: You said, “When a quick solution is presented we scoff and call it socialist doctrine. However the other solution is to borrow and go further into debt than we already are.” Could you give examples of “quick solutions” as opposed to borrowing? Because I thought borrowing WAS their quick solutions…i.e. TARP; $800B stimulus that “HAD to be passed immediately or we would have the worst recession ever;” Cash for Clunkers; Cash for Caulkers; home-buyers tax relief; “Shovel-ready jobs” that gave people jobs for a short time, etc. (btw – I know lots of people out of work that don’t use shovels and couldn’t if they wanted to… because they don’t belong to the “shovel brigade” unions!) So, all the “quick solutions,” that I’m aware of, DO involve spending money that we (the USA) don’t have and that we are borrowing from China. God bless you.

      • s c

        B, many years ago (probably before you were born), a certain man [JFK] resorted to a quick fix that actually WORKED. He LOWERED taxes! He was also a Democrat (before ‘Dems’ sold their asses to puppet masters).
        Most of the time, a quick fix is not a good idea. However, in the case of your “God” [Herr Obummer], his many quick fixes have done nothing to make America better or safer. Get it through your head, B, this prez is a PUPPET. He has NO original ideas. He’s doing what he’s told.
        Are you doing what you’re told? What a good, little progressive you are (no gold stars today).

        • 45caliber

          According to some people, everyone is required to do at they are told. And if you don’t, they are willing to send people to teach you to obey.

          Somehow that brings to mind slaves and plantations.

      • 45caliber

        You have to give SH a little leaway. After all, he is a college student. He’s only commenting as he has been carefully taught. If he is smart, once he gets out and starts paying taxes for himself, he will quickly become a conservative.


    Let’s look at the net results of taxes. More and more spending. For What? Why allow the government to take an ever increasing percentage of the GDP? Why do citizens continually vote for increasing sales taxes for this or that project? Does anyone ever stop to ask these questions? We all end up paying for these phony excuses. The end result is a decline in the standard of living for those in the private sector.

  • SH

    MY aplogies for the typos. I have class in 5 minutes. : )

    • PO’d Texas gal

      Hope it’s an English class. Fence-sit much, SH? Open your EYES!

  • http://gmail i41

    Remember in Nov. when the Banking Reform Bill hit in Jan. when you go to the bank to cash a paycheck and 1% charge is taxed to you, every time you buy something as a transaction cost. See if Omoron ever pays his fair share, nooo, muslims don’t have to health care costs, so when is the Socialsit Dems and Omoron going to enforce laws fairly?

    • 45caliber

      I believe that every man and woman in the US needs to pay the same tax at ALL times. No exceptions. But it seems that every tax law that is written also has loop holes – and the Dems know where they all are.

  • Bweez

    A TAX “BREAK” that has been in existence for years is proposed to be eliminated. So, “that” money is added to the budget as if the government has always had it, then Congress immediately puts the money (they haven’t even gotten yet) in the “let’s spend this” pile. SO… when Obama says that the govt may CONTINUE the tax “break,” (they will “let” us keep our hard earned money,) Congress says that they can’t afford it because they’ll be losing all that tax money they’re “earning,” which they haven’t been earning for years. So, my question is… how can they even count it till they get it? Because really they don’t even know how much it’s going to be, since so many businesses are gone and there’s 20% unemployment and they’ve spent all “that” money, plus all the money they may earn for the next 50 years and they keep on spending and spending and spending and… and… and… Sheesh, even my teenagers couldn’t come up with finances THAT convoluted. Is this a version of the old trick…”cut-the-budget-by-raising-it, then-lowering-it-a-little-bit-but-still-spending-more-than-before?” I guess it takes a college-educated financial wizard cause this simple-minded woman knows that wisdom says, you spend what you have and no more. “Don’t count your chickens before they hatch.”

    • 45caliber

      But they aren’t counting their chickens – they are counting yours. And if they figure wrong, well, they just require you to give them more to make up for their wrong figures.

  • tg7357

    I guess ‘transparency in government’ just means Obama will keep Tim Geithner hid in the Treasury Deaprtment so we’ll hopefully forget he’s a tax-cheat!!

  • http://yahoo Roy

    The true terrorist are in the White House….They need to go!!!

  • Patsy

    Really! check out, It tells what is really going on and how we can hold congress accountible for what they have done!

  • mike H

    Why are we borrowing 700 million to give the rich a tax cut?
    It is not a tax cut. It is what the tax level currently is.
    He will increase the taxes on the “rich”. Tax cut is an illusion
    and an inflammatory button to divide rich and middle class.
    Don’t fall for it. Giving billions to Brazil and Mexico…is
    he concerned about us having to borrow and pay debt on 11
    billion dollars? For oil exploration..which he wont allow us to do?

    Pretty clear picture, isn’t it?

    • 45caliber

      I’m a lot less worried about the 700 million than I am the 800 billion he is using to pay off his supporters. 700 million won’t run the government a single day.

  • 2WarAbnVet

    All we’ll get from Obarfa is more lies, more taxes, more spending, and a weaker nation.

    • 45caliber

      He’s already promised to cut the military 25% now – and it is already too weak to fight in a single war without the aid of the state’s National Guard units. I guess he figures we are too strong for anyone in the world to want to attack, so we don’t need to defend ourselves – or he has someone in mind that wants to take over.

  • Big K.

    If something isn’t done to remove Obama ASAP our Country is down the drain. He is bent on the destruction of America as we Know it. There’s no doubt he is a Marxist/Socialist/Muslim/Puppet for the Big Boys, that want America to fall. Get rid of that whole nest of TREASONIST SOB’S in Washington “Now” Big K. Speaks Out

  • The Patriot

    Just why does this bastard president(he is illegitimately in office) think that the rich should help him balance the budget? I was taught that bankruptcy was caused not by too little income, but by too much spending. Why should the rich have to pay it all? Lets be fair! Let us put it in terms you kindergarteners will understand.

    When you were six years old you had a wagon didn’t you! you liked to ride the wagon didn’t you?! So did your brothers and/or sisters! When one of you got to ride the wagon all the time what happened?? the rest of you complained; “Jimmy gets to ride all the time, I never get to ride!” SO tell me now, Why WHY just because you think that someone, just because he is said to be rich, should end up pulling the wagon 60% 0r 70% or more of the time while there are others of us who don’t pull the wagon at all??!!!!?

    There are some of us who pay over 60% and some of us over 70% of our incomes in TAXES!! That means we are pulling the wagon 60% or 70% of the time, or in other words we work from Jan 1 every year until 10 July or 15 August JUST TO PAY OUR TAXES, before we can keep a penny for ourselves. there are others of us who have paid all of the taxes we will pay for the year before the middle of February!!

    NOW answer me this!! Who is being treated unfairly?? Who is it who gets to ride the wagon the most?? Is it the person who works hard, who earns “lots of money”, or is it the person who gets to ride the wagon but has to pull it so little that he really is getting almost a free ride!?!?!?

    I vote for the fair tax. That way ALL have to pull the wagon and put the same amount of effort into it. It is the only fair way. Anything else is an unfair SOCIALIST Income Redistribution Scheme!!!

    The Patriot

    • Duende

      If you were on a life boat with 9 other people. There were 10 bottles of water on the boat. One person had 9 bottles of water and the other 9 (including you had to share the other bottle). That’s a situation that wouldn’t last long at all and you know it.
      Now as far as your wagon analogy there are 10 kids and 10 wagons. the rich kids got 9 wagons and the other 9 kids have to share the one wagon. now.. all the other kids fathers helped make all the wagons but were never really paid enough to buy one.. just food. The 9 kids grandfathers tried to change that once and the rich kids grandfathers had the police, the army and armed thugs break up the effort. many of the poor kids grandfathers were killed in this war. Finally one president said.. Holy Sh!t. there maybe an all out civil war if this keeps up and said “we’ve gotta give these people a piece of the pie” piece was given to all the people to share amongst them selves….Most were pretty happy and a generation came and went with everyone sharing the one piece some people got a cherry but most got crumbs of varying sizes. Soon women wanted some of that pie and then blacks and other minority…they had a right to it. They worked and they were willing to work. Americans were good people at heart and said.. sure. come on and share the pie with us. They even approved laws that made it a crime to discriminate against people. However the rich people never gave up even another 1/2 a slice for the new additions to the work force. And soon the old members of the work force were angry at having to share what was now even lesser crumbs with others. Nope.. the rich were scheming for decades on how to even take back the one slice that every one was sharing. That’s just how greedy they are.. it’s called Business as usual. They knew how to control political parties with their money.. for a short time the democrats were influenced by labor unions but the Taft Hartley act, passed by the elite/rich made even them very ineffectual and easily put out of existence by Roanld Regan. And now we have idiots who believe the poor rich people are being picked on and don’t even realize we’re on a boat with 10 bottles of water. no believe me, I don’t buy into Obama’s posturing for a moment, but if you think the corporations, banks and the elite are victims you are amazingly ignorant.

  • Brad

    After reading the article and thinking about our current tax situation. The simple solution for Obama is to cut his budgit to keep the Bush tax cuts. I’m sorry, I just used my brain to come up with an idea to keep the tax cuts. If Obama and the democ “Rat” controlled congress balanced the budgit and quit spending us down the road to China we would be able to maintain our current quality of life. Life as we know it has been getting worse as we all know it, we can’t sit here and blame the rich, they pay their fair share of taxes, but some don’t see it that way. True some rich hide their money away, alot don’t, Obama is rich why doesn’t he set the standard and give his money to Uncle Sam so he (Uncle Sam) can distribute his (Obama) wealth?

    Since alot of the responders are talking about taxes, let’s get on the horn, e-mail or what ever means available we have and talk to our representatives and senators and ask questions why does the Obama administration have tax cheats on the pay role, because what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. I pay my state and federal taxes to include sales tax and property tax, finally all those little hidden fees for services rendered, Uncle Sam and my state ramming their hands deeper and deeper into my pocket.

    • 45caliber

      I think that the government should be forced to balance their budget each year – and if that means no pork, no money to buy votes, no foreign aide, etc. … too bad. And I think it should be forced to balance the budget based on the tax income they get today – without raising more taxes.

      It seems as if I hear about proposed new taxes every day now as if the Dems are trying to compete to see who can come up with a tax that will bring in the most money – regardless of who they take it from (except for Democrats, of course).

      • Brad


        Couldn’t agree any more, if I over spend my bank tells me and if I barrow more I have to pay it back with interest. Obama and company hasn’t come to that realization, so far this administration in less than two year’s has put us in hole to the tune of 2 TRILLION and counting.

  • jopa

    Brad, Dan and Jim, do you guys really make over $250,000 or are you confused about the Bush tax bill.If you make less than $250,000 your tax bill will not change.

    • Brad


      If nothing changes, congress does nothing, the president does nothing to address the Bush tax cuts, they will expire 12/31/10 and on 01/01/11 all tax brackets go up, we all loose then. I don’t know about you, but I will personally see my tax bill go up 1.6K to 2K annually. I’m solid middle class and going know where fast, with a house I’m underwater on and my communistic state raising property taxes like crazy.

      • 45caliber

        I’ve got a feeling that jopa and others here on the liberal side actually pay not taxes. They are either on welfare or they simply ignore them. If they had to pay and fill out their own tax papers they would know how much they hear about taxes are true or not.

    • Brad


      The type of change Obama wants for us is to keep us dependent on the government, keep believing the 250K bullshxx. Again if nothing is done, on 01/01/11 reality will set in and I’ll sit here and tell ya; I told you so.

  • Brad

    What will get the US out of this economic mess we are in is…wait for it…wait for it…to drill our own oil and put it out on the open market, sell it for 20 bucks a barrel. The world will beat down our door to give us their money and in just a year or two we could be debt free!

    • 45caliber

      But, Brad!!! Oblama and company has already mortgaged it against all the money they are borrowing to cover the money they want to spend. If they tried to drill and use it, their debts would be called in. And it takes about ten years to start drilling and get the oil on the market. The Dems don’t want to wait that long.

  • 45caliber

    One thing I’d really like to know is how Oblama – who is rich – and most other Democrats – who are rich – intend to NOT pay taxes once his laws are passed. I am certain that they expect to pay no more than they pay now – if they pay at all.

    The only tax report I’ve seen on the Oblama’s show they had an income of just over $4 million – and they paid about $350,000 in taxes. That is less than ten percent. I would have thought their taxes would have placed them in the top tax bracket – which should have forced them to pay over $1.5 million in taxes.


    Does everyone realize that the 2011 tax year is fast approaching and we have not yet had clear cut IRS info as to how to prepare for this upcoming year?

    Our Half-way man has managed to use his halfast mind to screw up yet another item that we need to function…..

  • tim G

    Washington cannot let American business get larger than them. They know that it’s the business people of America that will do things fiscally correct, and they don’t. Tax and spend is all they know. This President has never built anything that was successful. As a lifelong, tax paying, God fearing American, it is appalling to watch this man and his robots dismantle what so many millions of people have given their lives to build. We love this country! We have built for the future of our nation. We must have the liberty to live free and create.

    • Duende

      I thought that way about Jimmy Carter… a good business man would run the country better than the politicians. Now I know the businesses DO run the country with banks running every thing.. for the elite. What you call bad politics (or even bad business) is typically great for business.. for the elite. Obama speaking out against business is to just con the people who know business are the core reason for the corruption of our political system. They don;t have to con people like your self and others who actually think business is the way out of our problem. that New world Order you are so concerned about commies and the such creating is going to be run by the interests of businesses that answer only to the eleite (no more national sovereignty) and the lapdogs that go along with corporate plutocracy. They love You…



  • Roberta Smith

    Gather them ALL up and Ship them to Russia or Poland!


  • Raggs

    Are you crazy?

    The government loves to spend your money.

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    right along with BO, Soros is a huge enemy to our Nation. can’t anyone get him in their crosshairs? Let’s see if he’s the anti-Christ and can survive a nasty head wound. Seriously, if we can’t vote this slime out of office then a more direct approach may be appropriate.

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    Right along with BO, Soros is a huge enemy to our Nation. can’t anyone get him in their crosshairs? Let’s see if he’s the anti-Christ and can survive a nasty head wound. Seriously, if we can’t vote this slime out of office then a more direct approach may be appropriate. There is a time for all things and that time is coming on fast.

  • libra


  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy


    • JLC

      Randy — A while back, we had a guy ranting and raving on this forum who could have written her scripts. Is it possible that American Liberal got a sex-change operstion?

      • JLC

        Typo! — That should have read “operation.” Mea Culpa!

        • http://naver samurai

          These libs are always changing their names, so it is hard to keep up with who is who at times.

    • Rick

      You must have some Ostrich genes in your background, for if you don’t
      comprehend what this lady is saying, you definitely have rectal
      cranial inversion or have buried your head in the Iranian desert.
      I have been preaching this message about taxes for years, because
      consumers pay all taxes in the end (NO PUN INTENDED).

  • Tootsie15

    I hear all the comments, yet not one of them has “hit the mark” yet. Who has bought all the lies and fallen for all the false promises to get us to where we are now? We have no one to blame but ourselves.
    Wake up and smell the coffee, all of you. This is why we go to the polls every two and four years, to get rid of the riff raff and get the decent people in that will look out for the right side. When we go to the polls we need to know what the candidates stand for, not just what they say they stand for. Whoever didn’t vote for this mess can cast the first stone.
    If you want changes, then vote for the changes & stop listening to what you want to hear from the shysters.

    • Nancy

      Everyone didn’t vote for Obama, I hold the ones who did responsiable!!

  • Duende

    HEY!! What in the heck is going on here. Where in the world are some of the conservatives on this site who know that both parties a ploy and a distraction to the American people. Why do you let your fellow conservatives continue to live in this delusion that one party is the good one and the other the bad one. It’s a game of good cop bad cop and they will switch when ever it serves their purposes. Right now they don’t need to since the diversion is so well orchestrated that people who might other wise put their minds to good use are hurling insults back and forth over nothing. I’m finding more and more progressives are open to the idea that it’s all a scam and a tool of the new world order and cwas delighted when I first came to this site and found some excellent discourse concerning the New World Order. Lately I’m hearing nothing but religious zealots and what I can only call kiss asses or teachers pets spouting slogans for the elite.

  • Victor

    Samurai. I am Semper Fi and I face the true facts. You are on the wrong track and I can plainly see you have been brainwashed by Lobbyists, Drug Companies, insurance companies, and the Republicans who follow suite. You don*t use your own mind and never will be able to because it has been poisoned too long by what you heard others and the news say. Anything you say in response will not be true facts. It will go in one ear and out the other. Okay smarty/

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      “I am Semper Fi” ???? You can’ even spell it correctly. What outfit were you in, in the Corps? Somehow I ain’t buying it.

      Semper Fie

      • Duende

        Gunner… er dude.. you really put your foot in your mouth. It’s Semper Fi… Semper Fidelis is Latin for “Always Faithful”. Also, Well known in the United States as the motto of the U.S. Marine Corps (and often shortened to Semper Fi in Marine contexts).. and about 1,650,000 other references to Semper Fi.

        Victor.. thanks for your sensibility. I’m amazed and disheartened by so many people who are suspicious of any thing described as liberal but buy the corporate/elite agenda wrapped in right wing rhetoric hook line and sinker.

        • http://gunner689 gunner689

          as a retired Marine Sgt. I say it’s Semper Fie

          • http://naver samurai

            This 20 year SFC of the army, retired, salutes you for your service. Let’s keep up the good fight, devil dog! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Duende

            You’re a marine? You must have been on the bomb squad and one blew up in your face. It’s Semper Fi. My nephew was a Gunnery Sgt.. E-7 which outranks you, a Sgt, E-5 (if you even were one) by two grades and he says it’s Semper Fi… Now.. for the Coup de grace. The new US Marine’s website seems to no longer be but now is This is off of their site :

            Now.. you’re either mistaken (it can happen to the best of us).. an idiot or a phony. I’m suspecting the latter (which means last).. I’m suspecting your one of these pathetic little creatures that creates a HUGE persona for them selves in the anonymity of the internet. You’re in my sights this time sport… click…and I don’t even need powder.

          • Duende

            Hey Samurai (sorry about previous misspells of your name.. I’ve got a whacked keyboard and didn’t catch it). You’re kind of giving gunner an internet blow job. Maybe you might want to check out what I’ve been saying. SFC’s a good rank..same as my nephew.. E-7.. I was an E-4 in 6 months (graduated top in my track school in Fort Benning) and was an acting E-5 Motor Sgt in less than a year. They were getting a waiver from the 7th Infantry Division commander (Korea)to make it permanent.. I’d made grade too fast and not gone to NCO school. I might have been a general if I hadn’t gotten busted with beer in a wall locker that I got for the guys in the motorpool. I didn’t know that acting NCO’s couldn’t have beer in their locker and they found it in a shakedown inspection. So I said FTA and got out ASAP. Gunner retired an E-5? Wow.. what a shinning light he must have been. Like I said to him. I’m betting he’s phony.. under normal circumstances I’d have left him the option to have been mistaken but I wasn’t feeling to “Christian” at the moment.

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            no it’s the former; I may have been making that mistake for years. my military history is:
            joined USMC in 1966 at the age of 17. Two tours in Nam( 1967 to , 1968, grunt machine gunner 3/26, wounded at Khe Sahn, medivace stateside; & 1971, helo crew chief and door gunner.) Got out 1972 as Sgt, E-5
            Navy Reserves CWO2 ( 1988 to 1993) taught ROTC and Naval Spec. Warfare. got out when I saw Clinton was ruining the military. Son, a Navy SEAL for 13 yrs.
            enough for you D? Semper Fi to nephew Gunny; how about your military career?

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            D: as to the retired part, I was permanently medically retired with my Marine Corps rank, due to the affects of multiple shrapnel wounds, blood transfusions, and Agent Orange exposure. I made E-5 in two years, at the age of 19.The nam de plu “Gunner” comes from my nickname in Nam, as an M-60 machinegunner with which I was very proficient. You can apologise now or never. it doesn’t matter to me. From your discription of your military record you were a real shit-bird.

          • Duende

            My Apologies Gunner.I really am glad it was the former. And am quite happy to be wrong. I wasn’t a shit bird, more like a free bird… i spent my time and paid my taxes. I’m really sorry about the Agent Orange crap. I friend of mine died all swollen.. you could stick your finger in his skin and it would hold the imprint for minutes.. the government denied any responsibility. I pray you were treated better.

            Now I do have to say this, and that’s if Major General Smedley Butler was on this list, anyone who felt it was unAmerican to attack the corporations would get set straight fast by him. I’m betting he would have been quite in alignment with what Victor was saying. Remember Victor? … now you go apologize :-)

            And again.. my apologies.



          • Duende


            I take back what I said before. You can give Gunner and internet B.J. any time you like :-)



          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Thanks D. Despite differences of opinion most of us are American patriots. apologises to you and Victor for personal attacks. I’m getting old and grumpy and hate to see what is happening to our great nation. I would gladly give my life to keep our freedoms alive for all our grandchildren and theirs.

          • Duende

            I know the grumpy routine Gunner. I just celebrated my 61st and though I’m much mellower than I was in the past I can still get bursts of stupidity (as my girlfriend so happily pointed out to me after sending that insulting message to you :-)

            As far as dying for my country I’m not to sure I’m ready to jump on the least none of the ones in recent history. I was told I had a country as a child and believed in this strongly until my mid to late 40′s Then I realized the whole idea of Democracy had been hijacked .. not only recently but all through history.

            I’m suspecting the biggest enemy to our freedoms doesn’t come from without but within.

            If you haven’t read Gen. Smedley Butler’s “War is a Racket”, I highly recommend it. He describes vividly the illusion I and so many of my contemporaries had been brought up to believe in. If you have read it just realize those that he was warning against have gotten much more sophisticated since then and are much more subtle (and total) in their control.

            Be well.


  • http://hotmail Daniel Wiggins

    It seems the only people who will not be taxed are white house personnel and the IRS.

  • http://hotmail Daniel Wiggins

    Victor, it is Democratic lobbyist and unions you should be looking at because this president is deep in their pockets. I would think having been in the corps you would think differently.

    • Duende

      And it’s republican lobbyists and corporate backing that control the republicans.. it’s BOTH parties Daniel. and you’re playing a game of who’s right when the answer is neither.

  • Jim L.

    Obama is quite the master of double speak. O Bingo is just another lying bastard for the world oil/banking cartel.

  • Rick

    I have a comprehension problem with Obama and the Democrats when they
    continue to vilify rich people, when Obama and most of the top Democrats are multi millionaires themselves. Who are they trying to
    fool? Why should we trust someone who spends $20million on a primary
    campaign for a two year job that only pays $174,000 a year. Anyone
    with a modicum of sense would raise an eyebrow at this. When they have
    a fundraiser for $30,000 a plate, I am disturbed because I have to work several months to earn what they blow in one night for a rubber
    chicken dinner. How about you?

    • Denniso

      Obama and the Dems don’t villify the rich…all they are saying is that working people NEED tax relief since their wages have been flat for a decade. The Dems are willing to increase taxes on themselves along w/ the other top 2% of earners because they know the country is in trouble and they are willing to help. The Repubs are doing their part in defending their rich corporate elites from sharing in the effort to dig the country out of the worst recession since ’29.

      Basically, the Repubs and their fatcats are greedy and don’t care that the country is in debt and that working people are struggling to stay afloat. Look at their fight against extending unemployment benefits recently…

      • Ozel01

        As Ben Franklin so rightfully said, “The best way to help the poor is to make them miserable in their poverty.” Sounds cruel bu in reality, if you let them see the seriousness of their plight, they will usually get up and do something about it. Otherwise, they sit around and wait for a handout to keep them going. Such is the case with the myriad of welfare programs out there today. Economically, it makes no sense for someone to go to work making $7.25 an hour when they are bringing home $450 to $500 a week in unemployment benefits. I bet if you set unemployment rates to mirror minimum wage levels, a whole lot of people would get up and actually get to work some way or another. As long as the government is giving out more in handouts than minimum wage pays, expect people to stay on unemployment.

        • denniso

          That’s not a very Christian attitude toward your fellow human, and I’ve never heard of anyone getting anything near $500/week in unemployment. It’s also not open ended as there is a time limit to the benefits. I’ve never been on it but do know some people who have been and I know that you’re wildly exaggerating it.

          I also doubt that Franklin made that statement. If the gov’t wasn’t easing the effects of the recession by things like unemployment benefits and keeping the states afloat as well as paying the salaries(that get spent in the economy)of the million or so federal workers, we would already be in deeper trouble.

          The modern global economy bears no resemblance to the early American economy and what may have worked 200 yrs ago does not apply now.

      • http://naver samurai

        The dems are that way too, duhniso! All the libs care about is taking money from the average American and giving it to some deadbeat who doesn’t deserve anything. Keep dreaming about a better America, just one with no Obama bin Laden. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Nancy

        I cannot believe some of these post by the liberals who say the Repulicans don’t care for America, and Obama is doing a fantastic job of turning the US around and we need Obama’s new tax’s, people you need to pull your heads out, you know where they are and it’s not in the sand, are you liberals just idiots, stupid or blind…ALL THREE,and it shows in your posts, I actually sit and laugh at them as they are that stupid!!

    • Centerist

      That’s right Rick, we should ALL be looking at people like Republican Meg Whitman (CA Governor race)for inspiration. She has ONLY spent 200 million to get a $206,500.00 annual income. That’s $200,000,000.00, thought you probably needed to see the zeros.

  • Shar


    • Duende

      Why in the world do you only think B.O. and democrats are on this corporate give away. The republicans are as much into this as anyone else.. and time you say B.O. you could just say G.B. (senior or Junior) or any other politicians in the last 100 years except for maybe Kennedy (yeah the one who got killed because he was wealthy himself and was really trying to change the game as was his one dead brother and then the guy who became a drunk because he knew that his life was on the line if he REALLY opened his mouth. Mary Jo and other tragedies that befell the Kennedy family were for the most part warnings.)

      All this energy spent on arguing who’s the worse or better of two evils is pointless but a diversion the rulers love to see the peasants killing each other over.

      • Denniso

        You’re right that the wealthy love the entertainment of the peasants fighting over politics, but you miss the point that there is a real battle over who is going to control the country…corporate power or the people. The Repubs dutifully do the bidding of the corporate elites, just look at what legislation they support. The best of the Dems are the only bulwark against total corporate control.

  • Ozel01

    The Bush tax cuts: When Bush took over office form Clinton, he inherited a recession. Remember the dot com of 1999? Rather than point fingers at the previous admin and lay the blame on Clinton, Bush rolled up his sleeves and got to work fixing the problem. He did that through a combination of spending and tax cuts. Here is the break out. Clinton’s last budget raised nonsecurity discretionary spending by 16%. In Bush’s first budget he cut it to around 6.5%, in his second around 4.7%, in his third around 3.5%, in his fourth around 2.5% and then below inflation on average for his second term. His tax cuts cut the taxes for about 53% of the people making less than $75,000 annually. Prior to his tax cuts, the top 20% of wage earners paid a little over 81% of the entire tax burden. After his cuts the same top 20% paid more than 83% of the entire tax burden. These cuts raised tax revenues by 20%!!! As a result of his spending and tax cuts, the US economy enjoyed 53 straight months of economic growth, added $4.75 trillion to the US economy and created 8.000,000 new jobs. This was the most productive period since Reagan. As far as I have seen, all Obama and his Gestapo have accomplished is deficit spending last year of 9.9% of GDP and 9.1% of GDP this year. Those are the largest deficits in the last 65 years. The return on that investment is a 9.5% unemployment rate and unions and “preferred” big business reaping the rewards for supporting his election.

    • Centerist

      You seem to forget how he left this country.

      • http://naver samurai

        You can blame the dem controlled congress, senate, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mack, Clinton’s policies, etc., for how we ended up in this mess. Vote out these cowards and traitors, libs, gay lovers, baby killers, etc., in November. Let’s take our country back down the right path of saving this country. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Nancy

        Our country was 100% better with Bush than it is now, but I don’t expect you liberals to believe it, I’d take Bush back in a heartbeat, he wasn’t racist…Obama is, he was LEGAL…Obama isn’t, he was a christain…Obama is a muslim, I know he made mistakes and he spent money too, but he didn’t do nothing compared to what Obama is doing to us, you liberals know this but are so thick headed, I see how you wound up with the JACKASS LOGO!!!

  • jopa

    45-cal.I am quite well off financially but I don’t make quite $250,000 a year,I don’t understand where all the confusion is on the Bush tax bill.The main problem I see is if it does’nt go back to the previous rates for the people making over $250,000 we will have to borrow 700 bollion in order to give each millionaire an extra $100,000 a year tax break and you know who ends up paying that back.That’s why you have so many rich bugs funding all these tax bill falsehoods.Be careful what you wish for.They are blowing a lot of smoke in the eyes of America,

  • jopa

    45-cal.I am quite well off financially but I don’t make quite $250,000 a year,I don’t understand where all the confusion is on the Bush tax bill.The main problem I see is if it does’nt go back to the previous rates for the people making over $250,000 we will have to borrow 700 bollion in order to give each millionaire an extra $100,000 a year tax break and you know who ends up paying that back.That’s why you have so many rich bugs funding all these tax bill falsehoods.Be careful what you wish for.They are blowing a lot of smoke in the eyes of America,,,,

    • denniso

      The Repubs want to have it both ways and there are plenty of Americans
      who will let them have their hypocrisy. The Repubs mostly exist as a party for the wealthy and big business, not the worker and average person. They have to stand up for tax cuts for the wealthy while at the same time shout about the country’s debt and Obama’s role in it. The extension of tax cuts for the wealthy will add $700 billion to the debt over ten yrs, and the original legislation for the cuts had the provision that they would expire in ten yrs…that is what people voted on when the tax cut bill passed. Now the Repubs want to nullify the original bill and help their elites w/ a little spending money.

      Tax cuts for the working person will be spent and help the economy recover…the rich will just put the $$ in the bank and let it sit.
      Why? Because the wealthy already have enough disposable income to buy
      what they want.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Denniso: you show an incredible lack of economic understanding. You must have gone to public schools.
        There are (3) things that someone with real wealth can do with their money. Save it, spend it, or invest it.

        1) save it in banks: interest rates are incredibly low and you’re only guaranteed protection for $250,000 by FDIC rules. the rest is at risk.

        2) spend it: Most people get wealthy by hard work, risk, and God’s blessings. Unless they inherit it, they are wise on how they spend it. Even when they do spend it they are putting money back into the economy directly and indirectly. Only fools make it and piss it away.

        3) invest it: this is the smartest approach to growing wealth and is what is commonly done. This creates jobs and expands the tax base accordingly also. It is also while investment tax credits are essential.

        there is an old parable about a wealthy man travelling across country by train. He has several million dollars he plans to invest somewhere. The train breaks down in a small town in the midwest. The town is in dire straights since their only source of income, a steel plant, closed. The wealthy man talks to several people while in the town and feels sorry for them. What does he do?
        1) give his money to the people so they can pay their immediate debts.
        2) re-open the mill and give the people jobs.

        number one answer would work for a little while then the people would be broke again.
        number two answer would create jobs for the people and raise their standard of living and increase the wealthy man’s investment ammount.
        Then of course the Unions would move in and overwhelming gvt. regulations and taxes would cause the mill to close again. But baring that, the correct answer is #2 but the Dems always go for #1.
        Denniso; instead of hating the wealthy remember that is who signs you’re paycheck. You would do better to emulate them and try to better yourself, than bite the hand that feeds you

        • Denniso

          You’re not paying attention…I don’t ‘hate the wealthy’, I’m saying that the Repubs spend their time trying to make the rich even richer
          while working people stagnate or go backward in income. And, the working person will spend taxcuts while the wealthy already have what they want.
          Me, I’ve been self employed most of my adult life and sign my own paycheck.
          I’d be willing to bet, that you,like most here, have no actual economics education…I do.

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Denniso: Beyond the economics classes I took in college all my real knowledge has been gained at the School of Hard Knocks. I too have managed and owned my own companies for the past 30 yrs. I do believe that a rising tide floats all boats. If you destroy the incentive for people to accumulate wealth by over-regulation and over-taxation will destroy the future of the middle class who gains their wealth from the rich. One only has to look at the former Soviet Union to see the failure of so-called Socialism. The worker’s saying was “We’ll pretend to work and you (the gvt.) pretend to pay us.”

          • denniso

            I’m talking about a balance between regulation and free markets. Free markets w/o controls wind up imploding as we have seen in the financial markets that started the crash…not enough regulation.
            I agree that you can’t take incentive to work away from people and expect to have a prosperous society, but your rising boats don’t cut it on their own…even during the boom yrs we had 40 million or so people in poverty…why? Not because none of them want to work, but rather because capitalism doesn’t work for everyone and always strives to have a lower class that does ‘menial’ jobs. That’s why we need livable minimal wages and gov’t protections for workers. The ‘market’ doesn’t do it, it does just the opposite.

            You’re totally wrong about the rich providing for the workers. Show mw one wealthy ceo who can do any actual work in his company…one who can make a single product to sell. W/o the millions of actual workers producing products in large numbers, there would be no rich.
            If either workers or ceo’s need someone,it’s certainly the rich who need the workers. The rules for capitalism have been written mostly
            by the wealthy and elites,not the workers, so it’s not surprising that the wealthy hold most of the power. That’s why workers began to organise a century ago, the rich had all the power and labor conditions were slave like…is that what you want to return to??

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    Denniso: With free public education, access to libraries, and ways to go to college or trade schools for next to nothing, there is little reason for long term poverty. There are always exceptions, and I’m sure you’ll quote a few, but overall poverty is a lifestyle choice. Most recieve enough, living on the dole, to maintain a quality of living acceptable to them. They recieve enough to live in subsidized housing and recieve food stamps. Most have a car, colored TV, computers, and enough spendable cash to buy cigareets, beer, booze, dope, and lottery tickets. That is the way they choose to live and I don’t know about you but I am tired of paying for it. Other than paying sales tax on legal items they contribute nothing to society but crime and more mouths to feed. They should be put on madatory birth control and lose their voting rights. The working poor are another matter and there should be a means to help them improve their lot, if they so desire. It is no secret that dropping out of school, getting hooked on drugs, or getting pregnant is a one way ticktet to Loserville. People with ambition and drive who are thrown into a poverty position because of job loss, and I’ve been there, will always climb out of it. Those people should be helped when necessary. Often tax relief or debt forgivness is enough to do it.
    The War on Poverty has been a failure. There are about the same percentages now as when the program started. We lost the war and it is time to pull out and end it.

    • Denniso

      I’m talking about the working poor and others who would like to work but can’t find a job…if you want to rail against welfare,why don’t you complain about corporate welfare that dwarfs welfare to individuals? Modern society w/ hi tech manufacturing can not provide enough well paid jobs for all who want them…that’s a fact that most people in the world know and accept as reality,which is why other countries do more for their unemployed. There are many workers who work harder than most people do and they don’t earn enough money to be above the poverty line.

      Repubs think that everybody can be a professional and make plenty of money, if they only work at it. That’s ridiculous and ignores the fact that we always have the need for manual labor and less skilled jobs…why should a man who busts his butt not make a wage he can live on? Because the elites say so?

  • http://Verizon Bud G.

    For all of those who served in Viet Nam and believe they were exposed to Agent Orange, please contact your local American Legion to assist you in registering as having being exposed to Agent Orange. If you can prove that you were in a location where Agent Orange was sprayed, you are eligible for compensation.

    Duende: I am sorry your friend died due to misinformation. The Agent Orange Registry has been in existence for several years.

    Gunner: You may have been on that gunship when we were attacked during the Tet Offensive. I was in camp in Nha Trang at that time and it cranked up about 30 feet over my head. I had seen them many times from a distance but wasn’t prepared for that sound. It was so loud with all the outgoing and incoming that I didn’t even hear it approach
    and that screech was loud. I hit the ground so fast that I split my right thumb wide open on a rock. Those clowns wanted to put me in for a purple heart for that but I told them I would refuse it if they did.

    I was in many caribou’s and C-130′s with the Alpha Teams of 5th Special Forces and Vietnamese Rangers and have Agent Exposure as well.
    I have skin problems and neuropathy in my legs as a result. This stuff can kill so take advantage of the compensation you are due.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      I was a Marine grunt machinegunner at Khe Sahn during TET 68.
      I was wounded there Feb. 22nd and medivaced to the hospital ship Repose, then eventually home; to Philly Naval Hospital. I re-upped, went into helos, and back to Nam in 71 as a door-gunner/crew chief. Sorry, I never made it down to Nha Trang. wish I had, but we did pull a GB. team out of Laos on an insert ladder. So long ago; seems like a dream now. good times and bad times but at least we showed up.


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