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Obama’s Big Fat Greek Bailout

May 26, 2010 by  

Obama’s Big Fat Greek Bailout

“It was built against the will of the immortal gods, and so it did not last for long.” Homer, The Iliad

The youngsters that run Wall Street know a lot more about Homer Simpson than they do the Greek poet. But in the wake of riots in Greece and stock market gyrations at home, we may all soon be in for a full fledged tragedy of epic proportions.

The $1 trillion bailout by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and Europe to stave off a Greek debt default is just the latest attempt by Big Government to defeat deflation. But the soaring price of gold shows that this latest rescue is mired with problems.

Consider the fact that even the strongest of the rescuers are bleeding debt. Germany, once the hero of fiscal policy in Europe, has seen government debt rise to a whopping 80 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP). Germany is far stronger than the other weak sisters that make up the euro—Spain, Portugal and Italy.

It looks as if the $1 trillion bailout to Greece may not have stabilized global stock markets and it certainly has not arrested the decline of the euro. Last week The New York Times reported that, “Fear in the financial markets is building again, this time over worries that the Continent’s biggest banks face strains that will hobble European economies.”

Greece is the latest domino in a continuing debt crisis that began with the implosion of Lehman Brothers in 2008. Greece is just another link in a very weak chain. In fact, the IMF warns that “high levels of public indebtedness could weigh on economic growth for years.”

Borrowing Against All Of Our Tomorrows
The world’s budget deficit as a percentage of GDP now stands at 6 percent, up from less than 1 percent before the financial crisis. If public debt is not lowered back to pre-crisis levels, says the IMF, economic growth could decline by half a percentage point annually. That is bad for the world and bad for the United States which is just barely clinging to an economic recovery; a recovery built on cheap money. But how long money will stay cheap is anyone’s guess.

In the not too distant future the U.S. dollar, once the Zeus of all currencies, may topple from the mountain top. Greece has a budget deficit of 13.6 percent of its GDP. Meanwhile the U.S. has a budget deficit of 9.3 percent, and that’s only for this year. In the coming years America’s deficit could easily exceed Greece’s number.

Furthermore, Greece’s national debt now totals 115 percent of its GDP. U.S. national debt totals “only” 85 percent of GDP, but it is expected to reach 140 percent of GDP in the next two decades.

But what the Mexican debt crisis taught us in the 1980s and what Greece is teaching us now is that the bond markets will never allow the U.S. to reach its debt targets.

According to Dr. Edward Yardeni, president of Yardeni Research, "There’s a tremendous clash between the bond vigilantes on one side and reckless governments on the other. The bond vigilantes are trying to establish some fiscal and monetary law and order."

You might recall Yardeni from the 1980s when he correctly predicted the Latin debt bomb, the explosion which helped trigger the 1987 stock market crash. Three decades ago Yardeni pointed out that, "If the fiscal and monetary authorities won’t regulate the economy, the bond investor will." Like Homer’s Cassandra, Yardeni has a talent for correctly predicting tragedies but is cursed because no one will believe him.

Just how bad is this crisis which was spawned in Greece, the cradle of learning and democracy? According to Citigroup’s top economist, Willem Buiter, with the exception of wartime, “the public finances in the majority of advanced industrial countries are in a worse state today than at any time since the industrial revolution. Restoring fiscal balance will be a drag on growth for years to come.”

Still, the Obama administration and the Federal Reserve continue to believe they can engineer yet another bailout. In fact, the Fed has opened up new lines of credit to the European Central Bank as part of the European rescue package.

“We didn’t do so out of any special love for Europe,” said Narayana Kocherlakota, the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis. “We’re American policy makers, and we make decisions to keep the American economy strong.” Yet the Fed president admits that the liquidity problems abroad could soon haunt U.S. financial markets and the recovery itself.

The Federal Reserve and Federal government have already borrowed trillions of dollars to derail the wave of deflation that began in early 2008. To do that and to spark a recovery the Fed pushed short-term interest rates towards zero, the lowest levels America has seen since the 1930s. In other words the U.S. government has shot its bolt. The U.S. simply can’t hit the “re-flate” button again without a major outcry from the bond market.

Gold On Record Run
The knee-jerk reaction from the euro crisis has been for money to go into U.S. Treasuries. But the chart below shows the monumental increase in 10-year Treasury bond yields since the beginning of 2009. Investors have demanded a higher return from Uncle Sam as the Obama administration and the Federal Reserve have been hell-bent on bailing out the U.S. economy with trillions of new dollars.

10-Year Treasury Yield

U.S. loans to buoy European central banks will only accelerate the bond markets woes, and with rising interest rates on the horizon, we can anticipate a bear market. The computer-glitch stock market meltdown that happened earlier this month portends to an American tragedy.

With the euro at four-year lows one might be expecting the greenback to soar. Instead there has been only modest strength in the dollar and record highs for gold. At this writing London gold is trading just under $1,200 per ounce. In November 2008, London gold was $713.50, so the Midas metal has had quite a run since then. In fact gold was $810 when I first recommended it to you last August. Still I believe gold is headed much higher.

Action To Take
Expect short-term strength in the U.S. Treasury market as we go into summer. If you own bonds, use this rally to liquidate them. Higher interest rates are looming and so is a bond market meltdown. Meanwhile, continue to accumulate physical gold. I think $1,500 gold is a realistic target by the end of this year.

Yours for real wealth and good health,

John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold Report

P.S.—I thought the quote at the top by Homer is applicable to the U.S. dollar. I am interested to see if you agree.
—JM

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • s c

    This prez is consistent (consistently stupid). So far, the only scheme that has escaped Obummer’s enlightened vision is the ‘need’ to bail out the entire world (it’s only ‘money’).
    How can Obummer not care about his children’s children? It would seem that a) his children are immune from that (how?) or b) he couldn’t care less about his children’s children. Either way, it says much about his utter lack of character and his true value as a ‘leader.’
    When theory replaces fact, civilization loses. When character is an idea fit only to be manipulated by those who care about themselves, we at last see the net worth of career politicians.
    Americans now understand why it is so important to keep America’s boot on this administration’s neck. It was the cure for Hitler and Stalin, and so it is with Obummer.

    • http://personallibertydigest robert williams

      from robert America you had better Wake the hell up and take care of your own backyard befor you destroy yourself stop trying to pay others our of debt befor your debt is paid why shold we the People of the uninted states Bail out Every body Else time and time again the ones we helped in past history even our Past Enameys in time of war we have rebelt there Countries and all of them Backestabed us when will we the people going to learn to clean up our problems the Blind cant lead the blind so wakeup and Finally learn from our past Mistakes.

  • DangerousDoug

    vary well said!

  • American liberal

    The conservative solution was to borrow more from China to Fund Bushs adventure in Iraq and give the illusion our economy was ok….now the policy of Deregulating banks and lenders around the world is coming home to roost …..the same selling of bad loans and greed are what tanked our economy as well as europes….these aren’t problems president created created as this artical would like to believe… The worlds economys are linked and run by the people who just don’t care….Europe needs finacial reform and regulations … Most the people on these site aren’t going to go out and buy gold… Were going to go out try and keep gas in our tanks and food on the table….greed strikes again….nobody likes the balilouts better than the super rich that bankrupt the European and American economys and now have their hands out for more…

    • Al Sieber

      Sorry pal, China donated 1- million to Obamas campaign fund. both parties are bought and paid for anyways.

      • Al Sieber

        Also how can it still be Bushes fault? Obamas been in a year and a half.

        • Mick for thought

          Reagan blamed Carter for 5 years before the economy recovered. It is the same old game.

          • JC

            So is that your rationale for defending the Kenyan Imposter while he tanks what’s left of our country?

      • American liberal

        Al… I’m not suprised you’ve got it wrong….try Factcheck.com… Or snoopes.com… They both say your incorrect..

        • Al Sieber

          Fact check is propaganda, and snoops is a mom and pop operation. And Obama voted for the bail out before he was elected.

          • rjg

            Such a typical response

            In reading these boards I have seen several instances of the following:
            Conservatives who don’t like Science
            Conservatives who don’t like Teachers
            Conservatives who don’t like Journalists
            Conservatives who don’t like Academics or Intellectuals
            And now apparently some conservatives don’t even like the “liberal bias” in the bible so they have taken up the “Conservative Bible Project”

            Some of the conservatives on this board just don’t like anyone who might have facts and so anything that does not agree with their ideology must be part of a “left wing liberal conspiracy”.

            I guess its a free country so go hard.

          • JC

            rjg
            That is a typical liberal response isn’t it?
            If by science you mean the global warming scam, we don’t like lies.
            If by don’t like teachers you mean our system of educating people to be compliant little government slaves…well we don’t like immorality.
            If by jounalists you mean those non principled purveyors of “spin” well I guess we don’t like half truths and propoganda.

            As for the Bible aspect, I believe in God but not religion so I have no opinion.

            But you obviously do and it’s an arrogant one.

          • rjg

            JC

            Thanks

            I couldn’t have proved my point better.

    • Mike In MI

      Am Glib -
      You are the one with crystal meth in your dumpster brain cell. A liberal is a liberal is a liberal. Whether it comes with elephant ears or a jackass’ bray on its teleprompter is irrelevant. It doesn’t make a damned bit of difference what it says it is while its trying to impress the masses to relinquish their votes. Its real philosophy will become clearer when it starts proposing laws and policies. You have just proven again what a clueless, gullible, misanthrope you are. Like all the rest of you liberals – you and your ideas you advance are like IEDs in Iraq. It’s made to look like something simple, ordinary and harmless. Then when you regard it as something it isn’t (and can’t be)…it blows up in your foolish face.

      • Mike In MI

        Oh, Am Glib, anybody who has been paying any attention to who is what on Wall Street would know that the people responsible for the financial mess and who funded Obama and Barney, Dodd, Bush, McConnell, and all the liberal loan guarantee/lender protecting policy makers are social democrat rump rubbers…liberals all, to their rotten cores.
        It is not Capitalism that is at the bottom of the slime barrel causing us all so much heartache and damage. It is socialism, humanism, any and all the “-isms” whose philosophies hold that you can flout the laws of nature, repeal common sense and force the will of man into a position superior to the will of the One Who created it all and us as part of the process.

  • FreedomFighter

    Lets see…

    we give them our hard earned money so they can retire on fat cat checks that I did not agree to pay for, will not get and then they continue to retire 15 or 20 years ahead of me…

    Just say No frakin way.

    VOTE THE FOOLS OUT

    FF

  • FreedomFighter

    Progressive liberals socialist policy big goverment is the problem…not the solution.

  • American liberal

    Al… And your under the impression that because president Obama has been in office 18 months now that the results of Bushs policys are now his?… Lol..,ok..

  • Raggs

    You ain’t seen nothing yet…

    This is all by design the union pension also is going to be bailed out.
    This is all of the makings of the global governmance that will mean a global institution that starts with the monetary system and progress into an individual enforcement policy.

    In other words
    As soon as obama has his hands on all international banks and build policies around them the next step will be to control individuals and the coperatations throughout the world. The international world is already taking steps to ensure via the small arms treaty Hilliary just signed to limit the power of the constitution.

  • American liberal

    Al… Your analogy is that because Clinton allowed deregulation of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac that it gave lenders the Ok to committ fraud and give out loans to people they knew couldn’t afford them because ” nobody was looking”?…I do give Clinton some of the blame… He should have never agreed to deregulation because as we’ve seen big Business can’t be trusted not to be greedy…I used the word seen instead of ” learned” because I don’t believe that big business has learned it’s lesson and I believe that if the So called conservatives were to get back the government they’d go straight back to the same policys that got us here in the first place… And that deregulation and tax cuts for the rich… You can’t allow the fox to guard the chicken coop and expect the fox not to steal chickens….it’s the nature of the beast ..

    • http://busterhomes@hotmail.com Snazzee

      You liberals are all the same. Just don’t seem to get it. Oboma is doing exactly what the Rockefelle-Rothschild-Global Elite is telling him what to do. They have been running this world for a very long time. The United States is going bankrupt. We are all going to go kicking and screaming into “The New World Order.”

      • http://personalliberty.com DR. D

        You Hit The Nail Right On The Head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At Least Someone In This Group Knows What They Are Talking About!!!!!!!!!!

      • JC

        Dead On! Our government threw us all overboard 1n 1913.
        They don’t care about We The People at all….AT ALL!
        Time for America to be re born American!

      • American Citizen

        Obama is going to Chicago instead of Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day as is customary for the presidents. He says it’s because he promised to go back to Chicago every six weeks. I guess he has to get his marching orders then.

    • TW Childs

      Liberal, You’re all heart – and not a great deal of brain – “it’s all Bush’s fault” is the most appalling cop-out – just as your stock Marxist appeal to the view that the RICH are the ones getting the goodies and all of those poor working stiffs are getting stiffed! You clearly have a mind set – in concrete – that doesn’t permit consideration of the FACTS – which if you had any financial experience, and you were still above water, you’d know what all this means. I have no brief for Bush at all – and less for Clinton and nothing but contempt for Carter. It was CARTER, Mr. Liberal, who first FORCED the banks to cut their lending criteria which started the FORCED expansion of low quality mortgage debt, and then Clinton re-enforced it – spinning the entire mortgage market out of control! You are badly skewed to the same ideological rubbish that is presently sinking the American economy possibly beyond any hope of redemption. Why not restrict your postings to the Daily Kos where EVERYONE is simply sociopathic and devoid of experience, sense or patriotism!

      • Mike In MI

        Mr. TW -
        Perfectly well said. And, thanks for inviting Am Glib to leave and go to the Daily Cuss with the other malignified misanthropes. But it won’t go. It’s here to bring us the “New Enlightenment”. We are its mission field to establish the religion of Humanistic Leninism so all the world can be led to bow at the feet of the other god.

    • Right Wing

      Alib…Spoken like a true liberal. Sheeple are always the innocent victims and big business the wolves eh? The lending environment also brought out individual greed and many borrowers found ways to take advantage of the system. Why would anyone support the idiocy of people making bad choices and demonize the risk takers that want to operate a business and profit from it? Every business has a mission statement and a goal; don’t confuse the two. The mission statement may be something like “provide the best, competitive service to save our customers money”. The goal of any (for profit) business is to make a profit so that the company can extend the mission statement to a wider customer base (i.e. growth). Profiting therefore, does not equal evil. It is all Bush’s fault.

  • 45caliber

    Unless Greece cuts its expenses, this won’t do a thing but stall a couple of years while it bankrupts the rest of Europe. I understand the Germans are particularly upset since they have to work until they are 68 and support the Greece retirees at 59. Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Sweden, England, Ireland, Iceland, and several other socialist countries there are on the verge of going under now. And Oblama has to toss $250 Billion dollars we don’t have and must borrow to get into the paper shredder too.

    • JC

      45…just look what happened in Greece when it went belly up and their little socialist system collapsed. Rioting, fire bombing police stations, inflation and shortages.
      And they’re actually in better shape than the US.
      Just wait until the “Stimulus Bubble” breaks here at home.
      And it will, it’s inevitable now…

  • Lena

    If President Obama didn’t provide liquidity then we would be in a GREAT DEPRESSION. I can’t believe this column. What is Mr. Myers asking for? That President Obama be more like Herbert Hoover? That’s just nuts. Washington and especially the Fed has its finger on the world’s economic pulse. They provide the life blood to stop a serious development. Without Obama and say with McCain, it would already be the 1930s all over again. Wake up everybody. Obama is saving your butts!

    • Raggs

      Not hardly!!!!

      So where do you suppose all of this money comes from? The obama fairy?
      B.S.

      You are completely wrong, this is obama’s agenda to “bail-out” the unions here or abroad to gain his control over them.
      You stupid people need to get your head out of the sand!

      This is all by design!!! exactly what obama and the progressives want.
      It is called the “new world order”

    • http://busterhomes@hotmail.com Snazzee

      I think that you have gone to stupid school and graduated an idiot.

      • Raggs

        Snazz.To whom do you reply to?

        • http://busterhomes@hotmail.com Snazzee

          My reply was to Lena. Sorry

    • TW Childs

      Lena, see my reply to Liberal. Neither of you have got beyond reading the ideological trash that the NYT and such rags are printing. Talk about NUTS! – have a look at the real world Lena, the one that is functioning trying to prop up a failed political, social, and economic philosophy that for over 100 years has dropped EVERYBODY in the toilet! This isn’t about rich vs poor, notwithstanding the dirge that MSNBC, NYT and other talking empty heads would have you believe – printing money that has NO backing, creating a disaster for your children and their children and likely destroying the greatest pinnacle of Democracy the world has ever seen – this about the FACT THAT FIAT MONEY has come to the end of its 50 year (arguably less) history – AGAIN! Forget the ideology and try and think like an adult concerned with your country!

    • JC

      “Obama” provided liquidity?
      Oh my God…can anyone actully be that naieve?
      Where did this “liquidity” come from? The liquidity store? His pants pocket? Some room at the “Liquidity Warehouse”? Michelle’s handbag?

      Do you have even the foggiest idea what stimulus actually is?
      It’s Inflation. It’s the very thing that destroys economies. It always has and it always will.

      Your deity is going to take us all down, if we let him….

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Lena,

      I implore you to use this site to educate yourself. Your understanding of economics has obviously been derived from the left-wing main stream media. There are lots of articles on this site that describe the destructive nature of the Federal Reserve and government bailouts. Here are a few links to get you started: http://www.personalliberty.com/civil-liberty/the-stealth-system/ , http://www.personalliberty.com/government/the-results-of-our-ignorance/ , http://www.personalliberty.com/bob-livingston/how-can-the-federal-reserve-bail-out-the-whole-world/ , http://www.personalliberty.com/preserving-wealth/modern-warfare-arrives/. Here are links to some book reviews for books you need to read: http://www.personalliberty.com/suggested-reading/the-politically-incorrect-guide-to-the-great-depression-and-the-new-deal-by-robert-p-murphy-ph-d/ , http://www.personalliberty.com/suggested-reading/the-federal-reserve-conspiracy-by-antony-c-sutton/ , http://www.personalliberty.com/suggested-reading/end-the-fed-by-ron-paul/ , http://www.personalliberty.com/bob-livingston/hamilton%e2%80%99s-curse-by-thomas-j-dilorenzo/ , http://www.personalliberty.com/liberty/they-own-it-all-including-you-by-means-of-toxic-currency-by-ronald-macdonald-and-robert-rowen-m-d/ . Once you have studied these articles and read these books you can search the site for more. Simply type in Federal Reserve or money in the search box and dozens of articles will appear.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • rjg

        Bob
        Interesting reads. However they most certainly are no less biased than the “left wing media” that you so despise.

        I would suggest that if someone wants to learn economics that they find a good text which at the very least covers the ideas of Adam Smith, John Maynard Keynes, and Karl Marx.

    • Mike In MI

      Lena -
      What in the name of God makes you thik this is Obama’s program? Why do you think he is not allowed to speak without Mr. Teleprompter egging hm on. The man doesn’t understand what he is pushing… he’s just the Pusher. Like a drug dealer. He doesn’t know or care what the stuff he’s palming off at us is nor what it will do nor cause.
      He craves powert, adulation and recognition. He’s been told he’ll get both if he moves the package. So, the government run media hails, applauds and tells him he is glorious and powerful. That’s his narcotic

    • Mike In MI

      Lena -
      What in the name of God makes you thik this is Obama’s program? Why do you think he is not allowed to speak without Mr. Teleprompter egging hm on? The man doesn’t understand what he is pushing… he’s just the Pusher. Like a drug dealer. He doesn’t know or care what the stuff he’s palming off at us is nor what it will do nor cause.
      He craves power, adulation and recognition. He’s been told he’ll get both if he moves the package. So, the government run media hails, applauds and tells him he is glorious and powerful. That’s his narcotic and he’s higher than he’s ever been in his life.

      What does he have that really makes him worthy for the job? Proven success? Management ability? Leadership and communication skills (not when he’s addicted to teleprompting but afflicted with Tourette’s when it’s gone). In which branch of our military did he serve valiantly and with honor? Do we know if he even has that quality? He won’t even produce the documents that would prove his claims of being a legitimate United States citizen, Harvard graduate, legitimate democratic Presidential candidate or other thingsthat are required to be an American President. Just show me, that’s all – guit dodging the issues if he’s for real.

      Oh, but he is smooth, yes indeedy he be. Now that one quality required of every conman.

    • jimmy p

      Never argue with a idiot. They bring you down to their level then beat you with experience.

    • Right Wing

      Lena, you shot up with the kool-aide! You might think it is okay to use your credit card to help out your neighbor, but would it be okay with you if your mayor took your credit card, maxed it out to help a few other people, expanded your line of credit (in your name), and maxed it out again after helping out a few more people? If this does not make you want to skin our government, then maybe you should move to Greece and help console a few of their down-trodden. Don’t forget your credit card.

  • Bob Wire

    all fine and good i suppose, but tomorrows are built on today’s. We’ve got to get there.

    >>”The worlds economy’s are linked and run by the people who just don’t care”<< I think you got it! but that's not exactly true, they just don't care about nations or ideology or people. Their main concern is money and commanding money, they are "global" and can live anywhere, enjoying the nicest weather and the best deals offered. Weather is the only thing they can't buy or affect a timely change.

    They have the ability to spend money to create "conditions" , these conditions dictate behavior.

    They are powerful enough, they have managed to block banking reform and the notion that "too big to fail" needs to be addressed.

    As I understand it, the vote were never mustered to get it done, yet most agree "too big to fail" held the American People Hostage to the follies of poor business practices.

    Now why you wish lay this at just one doorstep I find odd. Especially at the door step of a reformer. I say reformer, Obama could easily found something easier to do. Each President is challenged in a different way, with the ticking of the clock as the dynamics of human endeavor unfold on a time continuum. There is no end or beginning with the changing of the guard. What's seen as the easy solution is most often, rarely the best. This not an accident but the effects of the power in play.

    Maybe if we stopped voting a rich man vote and accepted our own personal position in the food chain( humble as it may be) accepting "it true" that the power and influence of a powerful few, reach deep inside both parties while bank rolling media outlets to spread their web of deception, preparing the way to both the ballot box and house floor vote.

    Naw? never happen! They've got us divided, attacking each other, attacking the poor, squabbling like sea gulls over a few bread crumbs or points of order as they fill their pockets and bast in our praise.

    They are very good at it, and use the weakness of man to their benefit. Greed,Race, religion, social status,party affiliations, nationalities, borders and boundaries are strong dividers, always have been, always will be.

    • JeffH

      ” I say reformer, Obama could easily found something easier to do.”

      You can call it as you please…reformer? Sorry, can’t chew on that tough ole piece of shoe leather. He’s not even doing a very good job at organizing and up to this point has completely failed “Leadeship 101″.

      I think he bit off a whole lot more than he’s capable of chewing, and to think he was the “chosen” one by some pretty wealthy and influential globalists only tells me that American resolve has, once again, been mis-calculated. His appointed cronies keep tripping over each others tongues and none of them use the same “manual of operations”. I think the opposition is a little tougher than he thought they would be and, OH, the critisizm is unbearable, especially because of all the problems he inherited from 8 years of Bush. Excuses, excuses, RIGHT?

      Being president is a whole lot tougher than organizing the illiterates at ACORN.

  • jimmy p

    Why must WE borrow to GIVE AWAY our children’s money around the world?

    Why should my IRA and 401K be allowed to fluctuate and I live with what’s there…but then on top of that MY bailout money goes to unions and public employees to keep them artificially high?

    New Whitehouse definition of illegal aliens: Undocumented Democrats

    • Raggs

      It’s called by the progressives “spreading the wealth”
      This is exactly what obama campagined on so now your stuck with it.

      Foundamental “change” / transformation of this country.

      • JC

        More than spreading it Raggs…destroying it.
        Destroying us, our nation, our way of life…
        getting us ready to be slaves in the New World Order.

      • Bob Wire

        Well, i think we were due some change and it should be clear to all, what we’ve been allowing to happen wasn’t working very well. We can only be wrong so long while claiming it “good”

        I just wonder when you walked into this “Bad Movie”!

        There was a time, back in the late 70′s personal saving was encouraged with modest dividend. People did save, but that changed!

        Your task is to understand how and why. No need of me telling you, you figure it out.

        I’ll give you a hint! It has nothing to do with Obama.

        and no ! High taxes did not lead to the crash of 29, sorry ~ Go Fish!

        So we accept big business and expect small government? Now how’s that going to work exactly?

        That’s like watching a 110 lb woman leases walk a ill trained 150 lb. Rottweiler, guaranteed to end up poorly.

        It not you government that concerns you but the color of the man in charge and therefore everything suspect. Deny all you wish, you most likely even believe you thoughts admiral. ~ This is more or less the same Fed you’ve become accustom to over the last 30 years. HLS being about the only new agency and that was 43′s response to 9-11.

        Taxes for the wealthy are lower then they have ever been. Taxes (Federal) for almost everyone is lower the any point in history.

        So what really eating you?

        Greece is notorious for under the table deals, and “fixes” ~ Much like Mexico. ~ Any attempt to change it met with great opposition.

        You anti-government people sprang up for nowhere, willing to accept poor government for many years. Seeming to be willing to accept a white man to pack your fudge!

        This last election results change you view?

        Like a friend of mine said once, after the government steals my money I don’t care what they do with it ! They “stole” it for me! ~ I had to laugh at his logic! made sense!

        For many of you, I know it’s be easier for a tiger to change his strips then you change your views. ~ I accept that and know resistance to you and your thoughts will take us both to the grave. So I can’t stop for you’d not allow it. We’d all be marching the Goose Step if you allowed your way.

  • Laura Schlegel

    The reason we’re in this mess is because we’ve allowed financial institutions/coprorations too much power and to regulate themselves with years of erroding at regulations that protected US. All of you who don’t want to pay taxes,dangerously confuse paying taxes for sustainable social infrastructure and environment with Socialistic Dictatorships, cling to your irony of guns & God and myth of small gov’t instead of smart government, enjoy the mess you voted for with your childish ill willed ignorance that make all of us suffer from the consequences. Stay off our public roads, schools, libraries, parks, emergency wards, don’t call our police/fire departments, give up your SS & Medicare, don’t drink water, eat food or take meds protected by regulations and don’t ask the gov’t to help clean up the oil spill or protect our borders or depend on the military for anything. Move to Samolia, Haiti or the like where there is no government. The rest of US are working hard for smart government and to fix the rubble we are in and to avoid it for future generations. Either pitch in and help or get out of the way!

    • Raggs

      You need to see a doctor about that!!!
      Make sure prior to going to the clinic you get premission from your bud obama.

      • Bob Wire

        you find fault in Laura’s post? where? or do you wish to just “crack wise” ~ Explain it in English please.

        • JC

          I find fault in it because it advocayes more government while ignoring the fact that it has bee corporate / GOVERNMENT cronyism that got us here in the first place.
          The cure for too much government is not more government.
          It’s like saying the cure for cancer is more cancer.
          It’s just ridiculous.

        • JeffH

          Well Bob…where can we start…I find fault with all of this “liberal smack”..

          ” All of you who don’t want to pay taxes,dangerously confuse paying taxes for sustainable social infrastructure and environment with Socialistic Dictatorships, cling to your irony of guns & God and myth of small gov’t instead of smart government, enjoy the mess you voted for with your childish ill willed ignorance that make all of us suffer from the consequences. Stay off our public roads, schools, libraries, parks, emergency wards, don’t call our police/fire departments, give up your SS & Medicare, don’t drink water, eat food or take meds protected by regulations and don’t ask the gov’t to help clean up the oil spill or protect our borders or depend on the military for anything. Move to Samolia, Haiti or the like where there is no government. The rest of US are working hard for smart government and to fix the rubble we are in and to avoid it for future generations. Either pitch in and help or get out of the way!”

          I guess Laura feels the rest of us don’t work, shouldn’t utilize the programs we’ve paid taxes into for decades and should leave the country.

          Last time I checked Bob and Laura-this was still America-land of the free, home of the brave and we are still have the right to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”.

          • rjg

            JeffH

            I understand you want some fiscal responsiblity but blindly protesting all government and all taxes, I just can’t see the logic.

            We know that there are certain goods that are non exclusive and therefore under provided by the free market. Things like science, education, parks, clean air etc…. And that is straight out of Adam Smiths “Wealth of Nations” not some liberal propaghanda. If your ancestors had adopted your approach it is highly unlikely we would have polio vacines, penicilin, insulin, computers, the internet, satellites, the space program etc etc. Furthermore we know that there is a direct link between scientific research and the production possibility frontier(economic growth). What Bill Gates and the rest did was great but impossible without the prior work of Charles Babbage, Ada Lovelace and Alan Turing amoung others. This might help to explain why Bill Gates as well as 91% of American Scientists reject the conservative ideology.

            I think these issues are a fair bit more complex than the typical “stupid filthy commie liberal” retorts that seem to be quite prevalent on these boards.

          • JeffH

            rjg, “I understand you want some fiscal responsibility but blindly protesting all government and all taxes, I just can’t see the logic.”

            Therein lies the problem…you can’t see the logic! No one is “blindly” protesting all government and all taxes. Protesting an out-of-control government? Yes! You can’t tell honestly tell me that government is not “out of control”! Protesting “all taxes”?
            To even say that is ludicrous! Protesting excessive taxes to pay for excessive spending? Absolutely, and again I say you can’t tell me any different.
            You see, I can and do look at the “bigger picture” here and pretty well understand where we are at this point in time. When I say government, this includes both parties and past administrations. When I say Obama is a Marxist/socialist/communist I do mean it and I have done my research to verify my pointed accusation about what this guy and this administration along with his cronies, Congress and the Senate are doing to destroy the American dream.

            “Spread the wealth”, and the Health Care Legislation are enough proof about this guys intentions…to help destroy the American economy.

            I don’t expect you to see the logic, but I expect myself to be logical and do my part to stop this push for America to become just another third world nation.

          • JC

            Notice Jeff, that the assertion is that you “blindly” protest all taxation. Obviously they’ve heard only what they want to hear in order to mount an unfounded retort.
            I’ve seen your views on taxation. They are pretty much exactly like my own and one doesn’t arrive at such conclusions “blindly”.
            The other thing is the promulgation of the myth that income tax pays for infrastructure. It does not. Every dime of income tax goes directly to pay the interest on the artificially created and endless “national debt”. The system is designed to keep us paying…and under control.
            They don’t get the idea that user fees would just as easily support allthe infrastructure we’ll ever need. (as long as we stop trying to buy the world, that is)

          • Mike In MI

            rjg -
            I can only surmise from your posts that you practice the type of economic policy at home which says you put everything on a credit card, get anything and everything that catches your eye or feeds your desire and wait til the credit card company sends the bill to see how your earnings for the month compare. You get used to living at a certain level and refuse to admit that you MIGHT be making too many purchases or that your total income will never match your spending.
            So, you decide you need to get more money. So you take liberties with your friends, family and anybody else you can convince to give you a few extra bucks. You tap their resources as long as possible until they refuse to give you any more.
            After a while people start hounding you to pay what you owe them. But, you still won’t accept that spending more than you earn is in any way unwise, dishonorable or wrong. If you didn’t intend to pay it back then you intended to take what they worked to earn and need. That is stealing, plain and simple. You are a fraud and anybody who does that is a liar, a thief and a sociopath.

            Now, this liberal government is doing that very thing. They are taking the people’s money at the point of a gun and threat of jail if we don’t pay what they demand. The amount of money they are spending is very, very close to our gross national product – just to pay the interest on the national debt. When those two figures are equal we will be dead, flat broke. Government and order (like in Greece) is likely to break down or they will be forced to initiate martial law under a very heavy fist = start killing and forcing people to do what those in power want.

            This isn’t a fairytale. It happens every time government spending outstrips the ability of a people to produce – laws the liberals didn’t write, don’t like to consider, but can not over ride will always have the final say. Not Adam Smith, J.M. Keynes nor Karl Marx derived, defined or control enforcement of them.

          • rjg

            JeffH, JC and Mike In MI

            Its good to see that you at least see the benefit in some taxation.

            However I have to disagree with your economic analysis.
            In 2008 when push came to shove people did not adopt the extreme conservative approach. When it mattered most and jobs were on the line the economists overwhelmingly favoured the Keynsian approach of deficit spending and gov stimulus(notice that these are the ideas of Keynes not Karl Marx). I read an article in the economist the other day and many seem to think that as the economy improves deficit spending will return to previous levels. The US recovered from the massive debt of the second world war and they will recover from this.

            JC as for a user pay system for public goods, you are just plain wrong. Your tax dollars do go to pay for infrastructure. Societies that don’t invest in intellectual pursuits, education, and public works don’t generally do so well.

            Some interesting points:

            The US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. This has been rising substantially since the 80′s and yet no Tea Parties to protest these cost increases. Somehow I don’t believe the citizens are getting worse.

            Some crooked politicians sell arms to Iran to fund an illegal war and yet no Tea Parties.

            An expensive war in Iraq and no Tea Parties.

            Deficit spending progressively increasing since the 80′s and no Tea Parties.

            Someone might get free health care and what do you know the gloves are off.

            Go figure……

            PS Canadian health care is by no means perfect but there are no death panels or lotteries to see who gets treatment, and I am free to choose my own doctor.

    • jimmy p

      And Fannie Mae and Freddie?
      Dozens of Billions spent on non recoverable loans?

    • http://busterhomes@hotmail.com Snazzee

      Sorry Lena but you or anybody else is going to fix anything. We have past the point of no return. This is all planed. Franklin Delano Roosevelt said: “Nothing in this world happens by accident, everything is all planed.” Fed debt is 13 trillion and going for 18. Fed’s will be unable just to pay the interest on the debt. The U.S. is going bankrupt. The economy has to go into the toilet before they can bring in The New World Order. Get ready for the mark.

      • Bob Wire

        Hmm? nothing happens by accident? ~

        so could we assume everything happen on purpose?

        I do believe in cause and effect but I also believe in premeditated carelessness.

    • blamesomeoneelse

      power corrupts, you can expect humans to do what is best for themselve. All counties fail, show me one that has not changed (failed remade itself or been taken over). Rome failed from within, Russia, France, Germany, Iran and so many others. What makes us think that man can create a perfect society? We have (USA) spent our time at the top we are now headed to down, deal with it. Blame others for your selfishness. It can not be stopped. The world order next?

    • Mike In MI

      Well, Luara – Where to begin?
      I guess I won’t begin. I’ll just start with what I was going to end with.
      I guarantee you it, Obama’s (et al.) proposals, will not, can not, never have, don’t and never will work. They are not new, have been tried before, failed dismally then, are leading to destruction now and ultimately intitiate corruption, famine, pestilence and chaos. If you ever study the Bible in any depth (not like modern denominational “churchianity”) you will see that all the things Obama’s friends propose are things God says are not wise, or are abominable. They are things proposed by him who comes to steal, kill and destroy (or people acting on that one’s behalf). So, in effect, you are advocating your own demise in a very despicable, painful and protracted manner.

    • Right Wing

      Laura,
      For starters…you have it all wrong. To spell that out for you and Bob Wire, lets first look at government regulation of commerce. Regulatory agencies have done nothing but increase the regulation of business activities. You are gravely mistaken to assume that banks and businesses have regulated themselves and/or eroded regulation when in fact they have adapted to “loopholes” in order to gain a stronger competitive position and increase profits. Second you assume that We the People need the government to protect us? The government is tasked (through the Constitution) to fund and maintain a militia but it does not have the authority to protect us against a lack of domestic common sense. Do your own homework on the term “caveat emptor” to start. If you think the government should protect buyer rights, then it should control all aspects of home buying so the ignorant don’t get a bad deal…right?

      As far as taxes go i don’t think there has been a discussion here about “not” paying taxes. I believe “fair taxation” is a bigger concern where a greater percentage of the American population shoulders the burden of operational expenses instead of the minority of wealthy paying the lion’s share of taxes. Look it up. You say, “…dangerously confuse paying taxes for sustainable social infrastructure and environment with Socialistic Dictatorships…”. The constitution was very clear on this but you should also read “The Federalist” for a greater understanding of the responsibility of the government as it concerns charity. You will be hard pressed to convince me that there is any indication that the federal government has the authority to appropriate federal tax funds for charitable causes of any kind. I welcome your rebuttal.

      As far as God, guns, and small government being a myth…not worth refuting because those three pillars are a large part of the foundation of this country and broadly included in the Constitution. Look it up.

      Finally, if you are a liberal and your perspective is to pitch in and work, then I believe you are dangerously mistaken for what work is. It means YOU have to work and give half of what you make to someone who doesn’t. Still ready to roll your sleeves up or would you rather join the Tea Party and try and force the entitled masses to get off the couch.

      • Bob Wire

        Quote; “You are gravely mistaken to assume that banks and businesses have regulated themselves and/or eroded regulation when in fact they have adapted to “loopholes” in order to gain a stronger competitive position and increase profits.”

        Hmm?, you need to set down that wide brush you paint with, or you’ve mistook me for someone else. This is common knowledge and created in part, with these noble words, “Let’s get the Federal government off the peoples back”.

        Quote; “Regulatory agencies have done nothing but increase the regulation of business activities.”

        Hmm? That’s much like saying the police agencies have done nothing but police and increase the policing of the civil activities. ~ The point eludes me! Now if you suggested the policing interferes and suppress civil activities. Some point has been made.

        Quote; “ Second you assume that We the People need the government to protect us?”

        Hmm?, Well that’s a very deep subject, long and very drawn out. And until you narrow it down some, in manageable bites. ( and I will look into the term “caveat emptor” ) just allow me to say, I lord over what’s mine, regardless who’s suppose to be in charge, by dark , my chicken are in, and I have a head count and everything is locked down tight. If something or someone is missing, I’m calling out the dogs and a search begins.

        I haven’t a clue what you presume me to be?

        But on a side note of government protection, ~ in 55 the government had us school children hiding under our desk to protect us from atomic blast. Crazy as it may seem to us now. Much like Obama tire pressure gauge used to lower fuel consumption. ~ we laugh at it, ~~ but it was only protection from the searing “flash of the blast” that burns meat from bone in milliseconds. If you’re that close to zero ground, dieing in a millisecond a blessing.

        Quote; “You say, “…dangerously confuse paying taxes for sustainable social infrastructure and environment with Socialistic Dictatorships…”. The constitution was very clear on this but you should also read “The Federalist” for a greater understanding of the responsibility of the government as it concerns charity. You will be hard pressed to convince me that there is any indication that the federal government has the authority to appropriate federal tax funds for charitable causes of any kind. I welcome your rebuttal.”

        There be no rebuttal; I see no conflict ~ other then to say, The Constitution doesn’t say many things! The fact of omission fails to constitute permission, liability or validity.

        Quote; “Finally, if you are a liberal and your perspective is to pitch in and work, then I believe you are dangerously mistaken for what work is. It means YOU have to work and give half of what you make to someone who doesn’t. Still ready to roll your sleeves up or would you rather join the Tea Party and try and force the entitled masses to get off the couch.”

        Hmm? well ? I’m not a liberal and I’ve been professional active for 48 years and politically active since I joined the fight to get Reagan elected in 80. We were awarded a presidential appointment(Director of Health & Human Service of four states)for a family member and all our “families” dedication and efforts. But today I vote Democrat and for good reason and until that reason is gone, I will hold pat here. But Thanks for the invite. Just don’t burn down the barn to get rid of the rats , Okay?

        • Right Wing

          Bob Wire…slang for those that could not quite get the “ar” sound out when pronouncing “barbed” wire. You belong on the fence with your melodramatic style. My response was to addressed to Laura but offered as tangible for your lauding of Raggs post. Now I have decided that you must be a thespian acting out the poor hapless victim role. You sway analogous text like the full length silk smoking jacket you must stroll your shaded house in. Try some fresh air, take your lithium, and swing vote…again. Oh and while flattering, you don’t have to quote me in your responses. It reveals your inability to develop your own thoughts and merely respond point for point. If you give me your address I will mail a copy of War and Peace. Maybe that will keep your lips moving for awhile and this site free of your fringe posts.

          • JeffH

            Right Wing….ouch!

          • Bob Wire

            Thanks for the personal attack! I’m not sure to who’s benefit it serves but more indicative of the mind set of the Mad Dog Tea Party crowd, showing the world how far out of the way they are willing to go to plant their poison, seeds of hate and distrust, and ” If you ain’t with us you are against us” mentality.

            This is the same crowd by a different name that kept 43 in favor for 8 years as his administration blundered through matter of state on a daily bases. I am not fooled, sorry.

            I hope you feel better now, having that all stored up inside must be painful. Forgive me for not being offend and recognizes you as a victim of your own thoughts and decision while trying to blame someone else. ~ SSDD (same sh1t different day) ~ find a new game plan, changing your name and wrapped is an old trick.

            I’d not wish to belong to such a group of people as that, preferring to stay on the fences of reason as I watch people thrash about and voice mean spirited hate that dwells deep in their souls. I look for a reason, you offer none. Try throwing off some light and spare us all the heat. ~ It’s your bark that gives you away, I’ve heard that bark before!

            And the Handle is BOB WIRE ~ just accept it as a screen as I do yours. You’ll just get yourself in a fluster attempting to connect dots that only you can see.

          • Bob Wire

            “Tale of two cities” my personal favorite. Keep your copy.
            But I will take all the Ayn Rand novels you have, I think you might have overdosed and need serious time for reflection.

        • Right Wing

          Billy bob you are welcome for the comments. Your middle of the fence…leaning/about to fall off to the left posts are only mildly entertaining; like a termite choking on a splinter. Which incidentally is what you remind me of! You visit a right wing, conservative blog to flail your half-witted drivel and I am here to call you out on it. You are fully permitted to amble on down the road of life drifting with the wind that suits you best, but when your foul wind stales the air I breathe you won’t get welcome comments from me. What you mistake for hated is a mere annoyance at your posts aimed at baiting and taunting all wrapped in a flamboyant, overly verbose pontification…complete with poor grammar.

          I am a Dickens fan but prefer his more benign story of penance “Great Expectations”. Keep your Ann Raynd books and Joni Mitchell albums…no need to share. I would prefer Pearl Buck over your flower child anyway.

  • Steve

    We should keep our nose’s out of everyone’s business until we fix our own mess. Oh by the way there are a lot of greedy “rich” liberals too

  • James

    When a nation must borrow the money it donates to foreigners, it admits to fiscal insanity. All foreign aid is unconstitutional, where does it say Congress shall have the power to tax Americans and give it to other nations. Our foreign aid to Israel alone is just under $3 billion/year. Our unemployment is now 15.3 million and rising at over 400,000 per week. An axel factory worker in Michigan was laid off from his $28.60/hour job, and is now mowing lawns for $9/hour. Michigan unemployment has slid to 14% – the worst in the nation. It’s time to suspend all foreign aid.

    • JeffH

      James, I hear ya loud and clear.

      • Bob Wire

        Greedy rich liberals? ~ Well I find the actual words, greedy & liberal in conflict, I agree with you though, there are greedy rich liberals and probably just as many prudent prostitutes.

        I don’t like using the term rich for it so relative for as we know, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. I prefer to use Wealthy. And wealthy people have many problems placed on them for simple being wealthy. Society places a burden on them, that’s not on the non-wealthy. Someone is constantly after their money, by hook or crook. They are always under attack, requiring the services of a staff attorneys as they are constantly subjected “to their rights of a trial” Wealth brings with it a curse. And yet it’s considered fair they only have one vote while their interest and major concerns often have little in common with most people. So what we might see as “greed” could easily be more a matter of self preservation. Their one vote at the ballot box fails to serve “their” best interest and won’t carry the day.

        I only say these things because it’s true! I neither defend or attack, it more a matter of fact and a reality. It’s not necessary for you or me to approve or like it. But please don’t assume my bias.

  • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

    Somebody please explain to me what is “treason” in America? I always thought that trying to overthrow this “Republic” was treason and punishable by death! What makes it different between a “known and provable” Marxist takeover and treason! Here’s what I think is true: It was “treason,” but it was put in by the “democratic process” and once having control of the House, Senate, Judiciary, and Presidency all avenues to protect the republic are gone(i.e., We have been overthrown by what I have read is the white women vote for Obama! Look down any street in America and tell me that I’m wrong)! I’m not a racist, but I know what is true and what is not true! I watched a story about Al Capone of Chicago this last weekend and it is exactly what is happening again! Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are the most corrupt operation that our government has ever undertaken and so few Americans have anything to say about it and those that do are very couched! America, this is not Mao’s China(He actually learned Marxism while at Harvard by the way and brought it back to China with him, so Harvard is not new at this game)or even Lenin’s Russia! I’ve even heard recently that Hitler’s Nazi’s copied our President Wilson’s Propaganda techniques to take over Germany! Yes, the Evil empire has been found and it is Biblical Israel(Joseph’s seed was given the Name Israel, not Judah’s seed, given grace(the Messiah)instead! America: I wouldn’t worry about China or Russia destroying us because we have reached the end of our rope! I’m expecting the Two-Witnesses described in Revelation to come next and punish Israel(America) for 3 1/2 years! Yes, both the Beast(Marxism) and anti-messiah(Guess?) have been identified and we didn’t even have to leave our own country!

    • Raggs

      How true!

      But you will never convince the majority.
      I have been saying who he is for quite sometime.

    • JC

      Agreed, except that the most corrupt organization our government has ever taken on is the privately owned Federal Reserve. Which is not Federal and has no Reserves.

  • jomama

    We’re screwed!!

    Bottom line!!!

    • Mike In MI

      jomama, you’re screwed only if you settle on that attitude as a core belief.

      If you can find a church or fellowship around you that can teach you what they did, how they did it and why they did what they did in the first century church – and prove it without contradiction from with in the pages of the Book – you have power available to you that can’t be measured or estimated. If God be for you who can be against you? You are going to need to be willing to change.

    • Bob Wire

      Well, we got a 30 years mess on our hands for sure~! miss guided and miss informed, and now our garden is full of weeds and think they somehow belong. ~ This is the only part of the Tea Party movement I agree with. ~ It’s time to prune and pull weed from our garden.

      But there no need of being overwhelmed with the task and neutralizing the soil where “nothing” grows or moving the garden. The basic structure is still there, we’ve just got a lot of work to do. Doing what needs to be done. While None of us can do it alone and need cooperation, be weary of false prophets for they show up at times such as these and want to advise you how it “should be done” and just remember, what you put out and feed is what you will harvest.

  • Dan Burke

    Let me see. Many blame deregulation for the financial problems. I don’t. Why? Simple. Regulation actually attempts to get businesses to act in a predetermined manner. So either businesses find ways around regulations or they comply.

    If they find a way around regulations, are they first shady or do we teach them to be shady in our to survive economically? And if we encourage them to be shady in one part of business, how do we expect this corruption to be remain constrained to just one area? So do we first teach businesses to be immoral and then punish them for what we encouraged them to do?

    If they comply with regulations, do we blame the business or the regulations? If you take recent history as any lesson, we blame the business. Take the Fannie and Freddie case. Many argue that deregulating Fannie and Freddie led to the problem, but what was the purpose of Fannie and Freddie in the first place… oh wait, they were originally government entities that were then spun off as “independent” businesses to get their losses of the government books was it? And what of the regulations that “deregulated” the housing market? Were those really deregulating rules, or were they new regulations requiring loans to less qualified applicants? My understanding is that the banks initially weren’t making many of these new loans until pressured to do so or face “consequences.” In other words, that all “evil greed” initially discouraged banks from making risky loans because they “knew” the loans could default…. oh my! Perhaps if those “greedy” banks had been left alone in the first place, they would have made their “evil” money and you would not have lost so much in the market collapse because banks in their greedy nature wouldn’t have taken the risks regulation forced upon them. And, yes, I am aware that banks did use a new model of risk assessment that is part of the collapse… but did they do that because we regulated them to the point that they had to come up with new ways to make a profit and take unnecessary risk because are regulations required more “creative” thinking.

    • Mike In MI

      RAT’ON, Dan’l,
      But that wan’t all they had to do to get the lenders to write that stinky kind of business. See, some of he experienced lnders knew what they were doing was wrong. But, we are talking about money. So, the government. in order to help them “understand” the urgency of the moment and knowing how to really corrupt things, decided to try something novel. They offered the person who wrote the business a $20,000 payoff when the new home owner put his “X” (literally in many cases) on the blood line.

      Now, you can be that decision had to come all the way from the very top of the financial controllers of the program – Clinton’s Treasury and the House Banking and Finance Committee under his watch. So, you see, bribery is nothing new to Liberals. They even wrote it into the contracts.

  • Robert Pgh Pa

    when you violate rules of money, and work and responsibility you get this problem. when you give to people that which they have not earned and take from those who have earned you cause the people who will not work because they are getting taken care of by the people who work. also the people who work for a living dont work as hard because they are punished through taxation and cannot get ahead. would you word twice as hard as you have to to receive the same pay. hell no and that is what is happening. add to that when the government adds aid to people here illegally and will not correct the situation and the economy will colaspe. and our economy is about to fall from the cliff.

  • Robert Pgh Pa

    james and burke are right on.

  • Raggs

    Yeah,,freddie and fannie owned by the government were forced by the government to take on risky loans that they knew would fail.
    So here we are… Greece, Italy, France, all of Europe and of course the unions…. Do you see the catch to this yet?

  • barb

    it’s not all obama’s fault. a heck of a lot of u.s. citizens voted for him. i wasn’t one of them. this sums it up quite nicely.

    “Some people have the vocabulary to sum up things in a way you can understand them. This quote came from the Czech Republic. Someone over there has it figured out. We have a lot of work to do.”

    “The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.”
    “The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince.

    The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”

    • http://Comcast Snazzee

      Barb, Sorry but the Fed is not going to survive. This country is not a republic. The republic was lost on the 1st Monday in December, 1860 when the southern states didn’t show up. Congress had no quorm and the republic was lost. Lincoln was elected president and he declared Martial Law. And we have been under Martial Rule ever since. You don’t think so? The American Flag is the exclusive flag of the President of the United States. Every court room in the U.S. has a military ceremonial flag on a pole with the gold fringe on the border. Go to the law library and check it out.

  • Da Norseman

    This is big government at work. The situation in Greece is dragging all the other European Union nations along with it as the Euro continues to plunge. While Great Britain, Denmark and Sweden remained the only EU members that rejected the Euro by maintaining their own currencies, which may be a plus for them, they, too, already feel the pinch since they also have social democracies. While there are “privately-run” companies throughout the EU, the word “private” is very misleading. While private individuals or other companies may buy shares, the government of that nation, by law, are the majority shareholders at taxpayer expense. The government appoints a private individual that they believe is qualified to “run” that company, so technically speaking, that company is still government-run since it is in a nation run by socialists who are the ones calling the shots. The “CEO” is actually known as a company director who is subservient to the government where this individual is given limited authority. Since Greece is plunging into oblivion, it is due to the fact that it is overtaxing itself. The definition of taxation only means “to borrow”, and it is never paid back. Taxation is the complete antonym of investment, which is defined as “to buy”.

    What was the reason for the Stock Market Crash of 1929 that led to the Great Depression? Higher taxes!!! The government bailouts only escalate the downfall of the economy even further through the efforts of higher taxes, printing more money than we can afford that is devaluing the dollar, and using taxpayer dollars to bailout other nations such as Greece all due to the irresponsibilities of these DC politicians and this current administration who are getting too involved in Corporate America. And they still want higher taxes???

  • Richard

    Ladies and gentlemen please calm down, both parties suck! We need a 3rd party to get out of this mess. If it ain’t already too late.

  • eddie47d

    Everything is regulated even our personal lives and that is not always bad. Do you pay your bills on time? Do you go to work on time and eat luch at a certain time? Regulations get’s us to organize our lives to avoid alot of catastrophes (speeding,not getting fired,paying our bills,ect.) I bet BP wishes it had some strong regulations within it’s company to avoid it’s messes. Regulations are not evil,only businesses who were sneaky in the first place. OR individuals who like to speed and eventually get caught. Many of you want to regulate Washington and that could be a very good thing. Now go out and have fun and enjoy life. Only regulate your moral values and businesses should do the same.

  • Robert Pgh Pa

    dear barb. when the hen you violate rules of money, and work and responsibility you get this problem. when you give to people that which they have not earned and take from those who have earned you cause the people who will not work because they are getting taken care of by the people who work. also the people who work for a living dont work as hard because they are punished through taxation and cannot get ahead. would you word twice as hard as you have to to receive the same pay. hell no and that is what is happening. add to that when the government adds aid to people here illegally and will not correct the situation and the economy will colaspe. and our economy is about to fall from the cliff.

  • ONTIME

    There is a art to losing friends and influencing your enemies, I do believe we are witnessing a marketed master of this pursuit. Yes his qualifications do indicate his ability to rise in this area and if being promoted to a point of incompetence is a prerequisite then we have found our Boy inept and installed his inexperienced presence in the office of the world’s most powerful man….you just can’t argue with success.

  • Raggs

    One other thing…
    If and I mean IF! obama was so concerned about the oil spill in the gulf, but he is not. Why then would there not be a solution?

    I have a solution… It may sound alittle out there but it will work.

    They can use a balloon and expand it inside of the pipe which will cut off the flow of oil…. These balloons are used all of the time to lift automobiles and to seperate granite when it is cut in the mines, they can with hold tons of pressure without bursting.

    So you see it’s simple… only we have no one in the white house that has a clue or prehaps just doesn’t even care!

    My balloon theory will work and it’s the only way to stop the leak in the oil well, but it will do us no good to stop the leakage of sence in the white house!

    • Raggs

      Excuse my grammer…I just ate and my eye’s are getting heavy…LOL
      Anyway….
      I am willing to bet we can stop the leak with a balloon, at least long enough to get things under control.
      Balloons are used to lift house, auto’s and to move massive granite bolders just to name a few uses…

      Design one that will fit the inside circumferance of the pipe and apply “X” amount of pressure to seal the pipe.

      It’s so easy a caveman can do it.

      • Raggs

        Well I screwed up…

        I’m sure obama will use this idea and of course pat himself on the back.
        But if that is what it takes to contain the spill… so be it.

        • Raggs

          Ok one more thing…
          BP is pumping mud into the pipe….
          Stupid!!!! it will blow out!!!!
          What idiots…. use a condom next time.

    • Mick for thought

      To much back pressure. This thing already blew out 2 concrete plugs before they could get in the 3rd when the disaster happened. Information from surviving crew member.

  • http://herringtons.home.mindspring.com lighterknot

    This song originated in the 1880s. It’s rather timeless I think based on the cynicism of these threads. Very similar to our 1980s and this depression by any other name – having all the money concentrated in the one % of the population.
    ——————————————————————–

    Oh, the candidate’s a dodger a well known dodger…
    Well the candidate’s a dodger and I’m a dodger too.
    He’ll meet you and treat you and ask you for your vote,
    Look out boys he’s dodging for your note.
    Chorus;
    We are all dodging, dodging, dodging, dodging,
    We’re all dodging a way through this world.

    Then “lawyer” with same lyrics accept; He’ll plead your case and clam you for a friend…but look out boys he’s easy for to bend.

    And doctor; He’ll doctor you and cure you for half you possess…
    But look out boys he’s dodging for the rest.

    Preacher; He’ll preach you gospel, and tell you of your crimes…
    But look out boys he’s dodging for your dimes.

    Merchant; He’ll sell you goods at double the price
    And when you go to pay him you’ve got to pay him twice.

    Farmer; He’ll plow his cotton, he’ll plow his corn
    And he’ll never make a living as sure as you’re born.

    Lover; He’ll hug you and kiss you and call you his bride
    But look out girls he’s telling you a lies
    ———————————————————–

    I’m grateful to all of you who are looking for answers even if you think blowing the flames of hate is the way. I understand the morality of conservatism and Christianity but I don’t find any thing but dodgers and hypocrites in the radical right.

    • JeffH

      Unicorns and Rainbows…you’re knot is still untied I see…

  • Antonio

    Dear Patriot:

    Please take your time and read this email carefully.

    Because if a bill quietly sneaking its way through Congress passes, an email like this could be the last non-government message to ever hit your inbox.

    In fact, someday you may even find yourself unable to log in to your email in the first place!

    I know what you’re thinking: Maybe this is just another Internet hoax.

    I wish it was.

    But Barack Obama and Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) want to make this nightmare a reality. That’s why Rockefeller recently introduced S. 773, “The Cybersecurity Act of 2009.”

    Initial cosponsors include Senators Evan Bayh (D-IN), Bill Nelson (D-FL) and Olympia Snowe (R-ME).

    You see, Barack Obama is seeking sweeping new powers to “shut down” all private internet in the event of a “cybersecurity emergency” — a vague term that the President can define at his discretion.

    And Rockefeller’s bill gives Barack Obama just what he wants.

    That’s why this expansive new power grab should really be called “The Internet Takeover Bill.”

    As you know, the Internet has developed into an independent sphere where 1st Amendment Rights can still be (fairly) freely exercised.

    It’s also become an important outlet for liberty-minded speech, cutting around the Obama-worship and corporate censorship of the mainstream media.

    And we’ve already seen the Obama Administration’s reaction to any online speech they deem “fishy.”

    In July, the Administration called upon Americans to report their friends’ and neighbors’ emails to help Barack Obama silence the “disinformation” about the Obamacare bills in Congress.

    Well now Barack Obama wants to cut out the middle man.

    If the Internet Takeover Bill passes, Barack Obama can silence his dissenters directly — by ordering a shutdown of the U.S. Internet.

    That’s right, under this bill Barack Obama can order all non-government U.S. networks to shutdown from the Internet.

    But that’s not all.

    Even outside of periods of White House-declared “emergency,” this bill mandates that private-sector networks only be managed by government-licensed “cybersecurity professionals.”

    If you think dealing with your office IT department is bad now, just wait until they’re federally-licensed bureaucrats.

    Well I know I like writing to you, and I hope you like hearing from me.

    Or if not me, at least you probably like staying in touch with your family and friends, and having access to uncensored news and current events.

    And that’s why I hope you’ll help Campaign for Liberty stop the Internet Takeover Bill by signing our Internet User’s Mandate to Congress.

    Today, legislation like this — built on the same statist principles as the infamous Patriot Act — must sneak through Congress quietly.

    They know Americans are no longer willing to swallow this swill “for our own good.”

    And it’s especially critical that Campaign for Liberty and other fellow R3volutionaries fight this power grab.

    Can you imagine how easily those in power could fabricate an “emergency” on a big money bomb day for a strong liberty candidate threatening the establishment?

    Or how about message boards vital to planning and freedom rallies and protests of socialized medicine?

    With “right-wing extremists” freely and visibly exercising their 2nd Amendment rights at such events, no doubt the White House could declare “emergency” and shut down all online planning.

    I don’t want to see good politicians lose potential millions or demonstrations of liberty extinguished. I hope you don’t either.

    That’s why I hope you’ll sign your Internet User’s Mandate and make a donation right now to Campaign for Liberty to make sure that never happens.

    We’re going to fight this bill hard, because it’s clear that the Internet is the next frontier for liberty politics, and Campaign for Liberty is right on the forefront.

    So please click here to sign your Internet User’s Mandate to Congress in opposition to Barack Obama’s Internet Takeover and Shutdown Bill.

    And in addition to signing your mandate, please make a generous contribution of $100, $50 or $25 so we can fight this Internet takeover.

    We need to fight to make sure Barack Obama doesn’t disconnect your computer, shut down your favorite websites, or block all your emails.

    And frankly with Audit the Fed, Cap and Tax and socialized healthcare debates, Campaign for Liberty is stretched pretty thin.

    And unlike the government we don’t print, borrow or take money by force (taxes). Our only revenue comes from voluntary contributions from liberty activists like you.

    We need you to stay educated and active.

    We’ve put too much time into building our pro-liberty online networks, websites and email lists. We simply cannot afford to give Barack Obama the power to dismantle all that at the drop of a hat.

    So please, click here to sign your Internet User’s Mandate and if you can make a contribution of $100, $50 or $25 or whatever you want to Campaign for Liberty to stop this power grab…

    …to defend our rights…

    …and most importantly, to protect this movement.

    I trust you’ll join this fight to protect all the progress we’ve made.

    In Liberty,

    sign this petition http://www.chooseliberty.org/internettakeover.aspx

    • Mick for thought

      Have to check that out because it sounds so much like the bill McCain tried to pass last year but included a fee for sending email much like hard copy postal does now. Thanks for the tip.

      • JeffH

        S. 773: Cybersecurity Act of 2009
        111th CongressThis is a bill in the U.S. Congress originating in the Senate (“S.”).
        Sponser:Sen. John Rockefeller [D-WV]
        Cosponsors:
        Evan Bayh [D-IN]
        Barbara Mikulski [D-MD]
        Bill Nelson [D-FL]
        Olympia Snowe [R-ME]

        A bill to ensure the continued free flow of commerce within the United States and with its global trading partners through secure cyber communications, to provide for the continued development and exploitation of the Internet and intranet communications for such purposes, to provide for the development of a cadre of information technology specialists to improve and maintain effective cybersecurity defenses against disruption, and for other purposes.

        http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-773

        “and for other purposes.” That’s the catchphrase here. What does “for othe purpose” mean?

        • Bob Wire

          anything they want it to, the men that sponsored this bill don’t even use e-mail at the time!

    • Mike In MI

      I think we should change Obama’s name to King George and refer to him as that, or Mao, or Woodrow because of the things they did to shut people up, incarcerate and destroy the freedom to speak dissentingly.

      It shows us all how dangerous they are to freedom. If they want the freedom of speech they want it all.

  • eddie47d

    Raggs; A balloon can lift a car like a jack or expand granite and I agree. How would you get that balloon into a narrow pipe that is hemmoraging outward? Is that like the Dutch Boy and the finger in the dike?

    • Mick for thought

      I think the tube they have in there now pulling of a fraction of the spill was suppose to have a balloon around it to stop the leak. Whatever the case, it is not working.

      The more I learn about the government corruption that lead up to this the more I get steamed.

    • Bob Wire

      the 22,000 lbs per sq. inch atmosphere, would create some issues with your idea. But, it a idea to consider, or something like it.

  • Jim H.

    You can;t “borrow” your way out of debt. You can’t “spend” your way out of a recession.(and not with borrowed money) Enough with the reckless spending. We can’t be all things for everybody. After you rob from Peter to pay Paul long enough Peter runs out of money. Can I pay may Visa with my Master Card?

    • Bob Wire

      well, sir. You can borrow your way out of debt, people have been doing it for many years. It’s not without risk and requires discipline.

      And of course you can spent your way out of debt, ~ it’s not until I or someone spends a dollar that you are given the chance to have a dollar.

      If no one spend a dollar, where might your next dollar come from?

      Money is made to spend (invest) or threaten to spend (invest).

      Often time just the promise or threat of someone spending money causes an “effect” to take place.

      I can make you spend money by spending mine. I might buy a huge dog and you ( my neighbor ) might want a fence. You might buy a nice car and I want one too! We pay taxes on the car, we pay taxes on the fuel, we buy insurance, The insurance man needs a new Air-conditioner, I buy his insurance , he buys my air-conditioner.

      The notion of “not spending money” and somehow everything will improve is not a reality.

      If the government alone failed to make its payroll in 45 days, we’d have riots in the streets and hungry people everywhere.

      You miss three paydays and where might you be? You’d be considering borrowing.

      When the present administration took over, all gas tanks were empty, all bills due and all credit cards maxed out.

      Digging out is much easier with a shovel so today we by long handled shovels ~ offering as many people as possible a shovel to help dig.

      Make sense?

      • Jim H.

        Bob in your first paragraph you say ” it’s risky and takes discipline”. It’s the discipline part of that, I don’t trust the government with. They haven’t shown any in my lifetime(52years). Consumer confidence will bring on spending, but tax dollars soon run out. I should have said government can’t spend it’s way out of a recession.

  • http://espionageaction-actionadventure.blogger.com Stephen Russell

    Let the EU bailout Greece, we can do some min aid, BUT dont aid to bailout, let the EU do it.
    Why do they call it the EU

  • ABinGA

    Speaking of bail outs, did anyone hear about the bill (Ican’t remember who) that will bail out the big union pension funds? JeffH you got any information on this? I didn’t catch the whole story.

    • JeffH

      ABinGA, as of right now, this is all I can find. I’ve checked multible links and they all say the same thing.

      The Next Bailout: $165B for Unions (???)

      A Democratic senator is introducing legislation for a bailout of troubled union pension funds. If passed, the bill could put another $165 billion in liabilities on the shoulders of American taxpayers.

      The bill, which would put the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation behind struggling pensions for union workers, is being introduced by Senator Bob Casey, (D-Pa.), who says it will save jobs and help people.

      As FOX Business Network’s Gerri Willis reported Monday, these pensions are in bad shape; as of 2006, well before the market dropped and recession began, only 6% of these funds were doing well.

      Although right now taxpayers could possibly be on the hook for $165 billion, the liability could essentially be unlimited because these pensions have to be paid out until the workers die.

      It’s hard to say at the moment what the chances are that the bill will pass. A hearing is scheduled Thursday, which will give the public a sense of where political leaders sit on the topic, said Willis.

      Just last week President Obama said there would be no more bailouts.

      http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2010/05/24/lawmaker-introduces-b-union-pension-bailout/

      • Bob Wire

        Well i hope he stick to the “no Bailout” ~ I think he will! It’s not my or other fellow American’s responsibility to make good someone else’s promises and contracts.

        While I am sympathetic for their position, however my family found no one running to our defense back in 86. We had to endure 14 months of Legal Hell. If they showed up with two attorneys, we showed up with three. They show up with three, we’d show up with four, sporting crisp white shits and power ties from a prestigious address. It got quit costly. But we planned on winning, there were no options. Father’s health has never been the same, it took it out of him. Months later he came down with a nerve disorder, like His skin was on fire ~that took 6 more months to work through. Life has never been easy.

        what needs to happen is a class action suit of sorts, get these people in the courtroom and sue the hell out of them. They might attempt to redefine “for life” but it won’t be quit a easy for them this time with the mood of the nation and a democratic administration.

        Somebody needs to go to jail for fraud and embezzlement of funds. If nothing else, breach of contract. And as we hear, Big business has has been going for 30 years.

        When American Business started workers as a expendable commode, America started going straight to hell in a hand basket. It started 30 years ago, and didn’t happen to everyone, it was a slow process.

        In the beginning the few who complained were considered, malcontents or just under achievers. We’ve always had “unemployable” people in our mist. As long as enough people were working for the government or making planes, ships, Tanks or armaments and munitions ~ “everyone that counted” was happy.

        The rest of the American people had to just suck it up, while looking for a light at the end of the tunnel and hope it wasn’t a train.

        What I’m saying is “This has been going on for many,many years” So long in fact, I ran out of anger long ago. A person can’t stay angry as hell for 30 years and stay healthy.

        I do understand your anger and frustration. But it not the present administration that brought us here. ~~ The American People, Complacency, Blind Trust and Faith has brought us here as bells and alarms were going off all the way, people just didn’t want to believe it as they deposited their payroll checks and felt somehow above it all.

  • Mick for thought

    Does anyone remember when it was cleared for an airline company to default on their pension plan a few years ago? Sully the hero of the Hudson would have been retired and not there to land that plane. There are several morals to this story depending on your wing. Anyone want to take a stab at it?

    Can anyone answer how many companies used that case to default on their pension funds after that first one got cleared?

  • Bob Wire

    I know many that tried, and met with opposition.

    I know Mobil OIl owned Montgomery Ward and attempt to shirk it’s responsibility,of vested retirement, many of them stock holder of the company. down sizing they called it. Your remember the call ?

    “Let’s wake up this industrial giant and get the Federal government off the peoples backs!” ~ deregulating then started from the white house to the out house. Across the board,

    The government attempted to consolidate Railroad Retirement with SS. That didn’t go over very well with the Railroad men. ~ The day of the junk bonds, hedge funds and hostile take-overs as Big Business lighten their responsibility and reneged on commitments a promises.

    Then big business start a campaign of firing senior worker before their retirement dates. Then they started laying off people, rotation employee’s just before their “vesting” date.

    Then the teamsters got on the wagon, and started to favor big business interest. ~ Leaving people to sue their own union. You needed a attorney to fight your unions attorney to get them to honor their commitments to employee’s. Employee’s that had invest in company stock and paid their union dues had to bring in outside Legal Council. ~ Tell me that don’t suck?

    It’s all there for you to see ~ the down side of getting the government off the peoples backs. ~ But will you? No, I doubt it, you needed to live through it to appreciate it.

    It been a long battle, ~ welcome, glad you made here!

    • Mick for thought

      Last report I read, almost 2 years ago, had the number of companies at about 200 that had stopped paying on their pension plans. One legal loop hole they used was when the contract said “for life” the company lawyers got a judge to rule that meant the life of the contract not the life of the retiree. Hope the federal government does not yank my military retirement. I served honorably and honored my 1/2 of the contract.

      • Mick for thought

        PS When Budweiser sold the new owners retired all of their senior wage earners early with decreased benefits package.

      • Bob Wire

        Makes you wonder what or who decides the life of the contract then doesn’t it, making any contract somewhat worthless paper.

        that’s almost as bad as buying a car with see-tru windows and rotation tires.

  • ABinGA

    JeffH-Thanks for the info.

  • Marc bruno Antonelli

    We must decimate Larissa, Athus and cavala with thermonuclear bombings to prevent the soviets from taking the straits from
    our staunch, secular Turkish allies

  • Rollie Finke

    The only to avoid this would have been to dump the tax code so that the wealthy all pay their truely fair share of the tax burden. Anyone making over $1 million a year should have to pay a flat 50% tax with no ceiling to the tax they have to pay. This would help to offset the robber barons pillaging of the economy in the name of a fast buck. That would eliminate the national debt in less than a decade and allow for full funding of government services. Also we need to get rid of the largest drain on government resources via welfare. That is Corporate Welfare. An industry that can’t make it with a 10 million dollar profit and expects the government to give them money, well Boo Hoo Hoo, tough, deal with it. If corporations want to get welfare, then they should have to meet eligibility guidelines, and provide proof of income and assets just like the poor in this nation have to do to get it. No exceptions. For those who are complaining about the bailout, remember this … Corporations don’t care about anything but their money and if the economy goes south, the first thing they do about it is to fire good, hardworking Americans. Want to stop the bailouts? Then force the corporate fascists to do what is morally and ethically right.

  • ulisse

    The Fiat patent fraud. About the Fiat hybrids: the technology double clutch with electric motor between has been stolen by a patent that Fiat Company has never wanted to purchase, but only shamelessly to copy. This hybrid solution will be the basic technology with Chrysler’s electric and hybrid car program. Please give a look in my blog where the “vitality” and boldness of the Fiat planners it appears in all of evidence: dualsymbioticelectromechanicalengine.
    If the industries can afford unpunished to copy the ideas and defending it need very expensive trial, to which target need the patents? How to defend the rights of private inventors? How our young people can find intellectual courage if the economic potentates crush the rights of the single ones? Whoever is about to ask for a patent or wants to propose a proper patent to a big firm I suggest to give a look to my experience with the Fiat, to get able to operate with better adroitness. Thanks and good time to everybody. Ulisse Di Bartolomei (Not spam! Please don’t stop this comment)

  • http://comcast.net PRESTON W.ATHEY

    My Two cent worth-this is the worst President and Congress i’ve seen.Can anyone tell me the differnce between the last Two Presidents.Therefore I have switched to the Independent Party and vote for who I want(Great choices last time.)
    Leaning towards Donald Trump–Because I know that he’s AMERICAN.Will put more people to work–Knows how to do Big Business–Will bring the Oil prices down–Will charge import taxes to China (about 25%)–Can hire the right people to show him how the Goverment is Run–A no nonsence person who can make the right choices–Will end the oil wars–and has enough Money to run without anyones help.
    this COUNTRY has to stop the New World Order and do away with The United Nations. Thanks Everbody

  • jeff Davis

    Q Why did the USA allow foriegn banks to use the FED’s discount window
    A To prop the european banks up so new CDS could be made with a low premium
    Q Why do that
    A So US banks could place $200bn in short bets against a europen bank only worth $1bn
    Q Do they not need to own the european bank to do that.
    A No
    Q Could this be seen as an act of war
    A The people in Greece would say so
    Q Who’s next
    A Ireland but it should be the zionist bankers
    Q What should i do
    A Get out of bonds before we see debt forgivness across the board on goverment bonds.
    Q What else can i do.
    A Buy silver/gold and store water and food.

    Just like the $2.3tr that went missing the day before 9/11 and buildings fell over, gold went missing and the short bets on airlines the FED will tell us that none of this money is traceable.

    You have been warned !

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