Obamacare’s Mandate Of Death And Destruction

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Cars on the Obamacare Express jumped the track and began piling up as soon as the Healthcare.gov website went live on Oct. 1, and the expected Obamacare train wreck continues to create its carnage.

Of course, the carnage is just beginning. Obamacare is a socialist death trap of graft and corruption. It was created by lobbyists for the medical industrial complex as a way of growing its consumer base with the guarantee of benefit payments from the Federal Treasury. It’s a redistributive system that steals from the producers in order to feed the corporatocracy.

Nothing about Obamacare is healthcare. It is simply medical tyranny created under the guise of political doublespeak. It sounds great to promise free or low-cost health insurance for everyone until people begin to learn the true cost of “free” government programs.

America’s healthcare system is a profit-driven, disease-oriented death system. It is a system of conflict of interest, tainted research, greed for money, deceived and pretentious doctors and scientists, lying, cheating, invasion by the morally bankrupt marketing automatons of the drug industry, greedy power-hungry politicians, and Federal and State regulators. It is all about money generated on the sick and the dying.

I will quickly give you a valid exception, and that is if one needs trauma care. It is generally and quickly available and most of the time life-saving. But this is a very small part of medical practice in America.

The sick care industry is not only profiting from the sick and dying; it is the greatest cause of sickness and premature death. And it is a U.S. government industry. It is sponsored and financed by the U.S. government. There would not be a single hospital in the United States without Federal funny money and the insurance business.

In fact, it’s very deceptive to call Obamacare socialized healthcare as Obamacare has nothing to do with healthcare. It’s just the opposite. It’s sickness care.

The Nazis had their gas chambers and America has “medical care,” which is the most sophisticated killing machine that demented minds can create.

Americans are mentally dependent on the “medical” brainwash. When our dumbed-down people hear the trigger word “medical care,” they go blind and hyperventilate. They do not know a scam from a sham.

The great debate going on is spurious in its entirety. There is no truth to be found in it. It’s a comedy. As the paper money regime collapses, the money creators are speeding up the printing presses in a desperate ploy to transfer the wealth of the American people before it becomes worthless anyway. It is disguised warfare against the American people.

It reminds one of the last days of the Nazi regime. As the cities were reduced to rubble, German citizens were being shot for “treason.” In the last days of any regime, the process of oppression of citizens is intensified.

In the United States, stepped-up oppression is being done under the cloak of benevolency called healthcare.

In fact, there is now very high risk in going to the hospital. Besides the hundreds of thousands of drug-induced deaths (iatrogenic deaths), there are people who check into hospitals and unexpectedly die of viral pneumonia that antibiotics can’t help. Tuberculosis has returned to America, including drug-resistant strains. Drug-resistant bacteria are rampant. One in 20 hospital patients now picks up an infection he didn’t have when he arrived. Even what appears to be the old common cold is lasting for months.

“There are about 2 million people who acquire infection from the hospital each year and become sick,” said Charlottesville, Va., infectious disease expert Barry Farr, M.D. “Most don’t die, but some do.” About 100,000 die each year, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Obamacare locks you into this system with no way out. Once the government is in the business of determining approved treatments and payments, alternative treatment regimens are prohibited. And failure to follow the prescribed treatment will result in fines or imprisonment. (This sort of medical tyranny has already manifested itself in the treatment of children’s ailments; see here and here for just two such examples.)

And it seems the Obamacare system permanently captures you as well. Those few who have managed to access the deeply flawed system have learned that deleting an account and the personal information entered is impossible.

And what is that information? Everything the government needs to know to confiscate your wealth from you completely in the event of noncompliance.

Everyone is forced to sign up for a system that is unavailable to them because of the failure of the Healthcare.gov website — which some computer experts believe was either designed to fail or built by a team of incompetent chimpanzees.

Mike Adams of NaturalNews.com has studied the publicly available Javascript code and found it riddled with errors, filler and absurdities. It is so bad, he writes, that it probably was never even alpha tested, much less beta tested; and it appears to have been designed to fail. He doubts it can ever be repaired despite the millions of dollars paid for its construction.

About 90 percent of those who tried to enroll say they were not able to get signed up. And of those, about 50,000 people who were able to get through in the system’s first 11 days, only about 1 percent have submitted enough information to be successfully enrolled, according to health industry executives.

Nationwide, there are 11.6 million people ages 18 to 34 who are uninsured, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. Obamacare is a Ponzi scheme designed to sit on the backs of the young and healthy. But they aren’t interested in it once they learn their premium costs will run in the hundreds of dollars per month, deductibles are $5,000 or more per year and the copays are outrageously high.

The lack of support from young people is ominous. “The entire Rube Goldberg apparatus depends on young, healthy people signing up to cross-subsidize more expensive patients and prevent health plans from going into a death spiral in which premiums don’t cover claims,” said The Wall Street Journal. “Good luck getting millennials to sign up when plans aren’t merely more expensive but when the exchanges malfunction, or doctors don’t accept exchange coverage because someone checked the wrong box, or any number of myriad administrative problems.”

Yet despite all this and despite the fact that a vast majority of Americans want no part of it (hence, the mandate requiring everyone to sign up under penalty of fines and forfeiture of as-yet undetermined amounts of personal property), every effort to repeal or defund Obamacare has been backed by only a handful of non-statists and opposed by the regime and the statists who are more interested in control, power, pleasing the medical cartel and sapping Americans of their wealth and health than in doing what’s right for Americans and following the Constitution.

Personal Liberty

Bob Livingston

founder of Personal Liberty Digest™, is an ultra-conservative American author and editor of The Bob Livingston Letter™, in circulation since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Harold Olsen

    Obamacare is a disaster. I believe that the death rate will increase because people will not be allowed to get medical treatment. One of Obama’s advisers, Rahm Emmanuelle’s brother, said that people under the age of 14 and over 40 will get low priority when it comes to medial treatment. According to him, the only productive people in this country are those over the age of 14 and under the age of 40. The rest, basically, are useless. There will be, contrary to what the Obama regime claims, death panels to determine who will and who won’t get medical treatment. I’m certain of one thing. I had cancer in the mid-eighties. Had Obamacare been around then, I would not be here now.

    • Merle Dickey

      I’m afraid your right. It is sad that we have people inWashington that would put death panels in a law that would kill some of the very folks that elected them into office!

      • Bill Johnson

        They will replace them with illegal aliens that can vote after the amnesty deal and by the way what happened to Bengazi getting lost in the cover up

      • Bill Johnson

        They will replace them with illegal aliens that can vote after the amnesty deal and by the way what happened to Bengazi getting lost in the cover up

    • Progressive Republican

      We already have “death panels” except that it’s a panel of one: the actuary who decides who lives and who dies in the name of corporate profit.

      • murphyj87

        That;s the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between Americans and the health care they need, who lets Americans die without treatment because they make more money letting Americans die, unless they come to Canada to get the health care they need, as 1,973,500,000 Americans did in 2011, and about the same number of Americans have come to Canada for medical treatment they couldn;t get in the US,for decades., .

        • Progressive Republican

          I think ya got three too many zeroes there, bud.

          • murphyj87

            No, almost TWO MILLION Americans each year come to Canada to get the health care they need but are denied by the insurance company bureaucrat that Americans have standing between them and a doctor and the health care they need,

          • smilee

            Most non insured people in International Falls MN (on the border) get their health care in Canada as it is about 40% cheaper. They have their babies there. The press seldom reports this but many Americans go to Canada if they do not have insurance

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            There is a simple solution, murphy — Pay for you own care. Don’t buy Medical Insurance.
            If you don’t like that solution, get together with your Liberal Progressive buddies and pool your monies in a co-op or other organization that provides the kind of insurance you desire. But don’t FORCE me to join in your Ponzi Scheme. I am not your pack mule to ride as you please.
            And please don’t try to take the moral high-ground because you are not Moral when you Force me to pay for your products. You are just a Thief.

          • murphyj87

            I don`t need medical insurance. I have Canadian health care, and can see the doctor I choose any time I feel I need to and I get (like every Canadian does) whatever tests, treatment,surgery,and hospitalization my doctor says I need, paid for by the Canadian government without any possible denial, and with NO OUT OF POCKET COST. The health care we Canadians get is far better in access and quality than the majority of Americans with insurance run health care can have. We Canadians get medical treatment better and faster than the vast majority of Americans can have in the United States.

            If I had to rely on American insurance run health care, there`s not much doubt that I;d be dead long ago. My health is excellent because, and only because, I have Canadian government funded, physician run health care, and NOT American insurance run and insurance rationed health care like you do.

            The health care that WE Canadians have is far better than the insurance compâny bureaucrat who stands between you and a doctor, the insurance company bureaucrat who denies and rations your health care will allow YOU to have.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I don’t care what you think, murphy. My life is not yours to control. Like I said, get together with your like-minded fools and buy whatever you want, but don’t FORCE your ways on me. I am not your slave to do with as you please.

          • daveH234

            Murphy, your number is 1.9 Billion….not million. You have three too many zeroes there.

          • Progressive Republican

            Thus my point. Spelling out what you said, “…unless they come to Canada to get the health care they need, as one billion, nine-hundred seventy-three million, five-hundred thousand Americans did in 2011.”

            Don’t get me wrong, I’m on your side. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I’m just trying to get you to be more careful in your proofreading. I have occasional problems with that myself. I can relate. Spell-check only helps with mis-spelled words, not the wrong ones. With numbers, you;re on your own.

        • Liz

          Private insurance companies are still better than government controlled healthcare systems. Those that go to Canada still file claims with the American insurance companies. Pretty soon those insurance companies will be gone and the Canadians will quit treating those people. Canadians come here for the surgery they need because of the waiting lists. I have met folks who came here because the waiting lists are so long they would have died before they could receive the life saving surgery they needed. Some people will wait 5 years for a scheduled surgery in Canada. The Canadian healthcare system is broke because of socialized medicine. Go ahead, to those who praise the Affordable Healthcare Act, where will you go for medical care when the government says “sorry” you are too old or your care costs too much, Mexico?

          • murphyj87

            Private insurance companies are the only ones killing Americans, and do so on a very regular basis.
            The Canadian government funded, physician run health care system is vastly better than what any American who has private insurance run health care can ever have.

            Canadian health care is a single payer system, not socialized medicine, and Canadian health care is thriving when compared to American insurance run health care.

            Canadians pay 10% of GDP for better health care than Americans pay 18% of GDP for. Americans pay almost double for health care to get less than Canadians get for half the cost of what Americans pay.

            The only socialized medicine in North America, by definition, is in the United States, and the only socialized medicine in thr United States, by definition, is US military and DVA health care.

            By definition, socialized medicine is a system where the government actually OWNS the hospitals and physicians and staff are civil servants. In Canada the hospitalks are not owned by the governmeht and physicians in Canada are in private practice, not civil servants.

            Like a typical Amewrican, you don;t have a clue what socialized medicine is and always misuse it. What Americans call “socialism” is not socialism at all, and what Americans call “socialized medicine” is seldom socialized medicine at all.

            THE DEFINITION:

            The original meaning of socialized medicine was confined to systems in which the government owns and operates health care facilities and employs health care professionals.This narrower usage would apply to the British National Health Service hospital trusts and health systems that operate in other countries as diverse as Finland, Spain, Israel, and Cuba. The United States’ Veterans Health Administration, and the medical departments of the US Army, Navy, and Air Force, would also fall under this narrow definition. When used in this way, the narrow definition permits a clear distinction from single payer health insurance systems, in which the government finances health care but is not involved in care delivery`

            In addition, we Seniors get exactly the same health care in Canada as any other Canadian, which is why we live an average of 4 years longer than an American.

            Each year, an average of 1800 hip replacements are done on Canadians 85 years of age or older. No one denies we Seniors the health care we needm either here in Canada or with Medicare in the UNited States.

            The only death panels which exist, will exist, and have existed, are made up of the insurance company bureaucrats who stand between Americans and the health care they need.

            Canadians know very well the fact that 45,000 Americans die each year because they are denied the health care they need by the insurance company bureaucrats who stand between Americans and the health care they need, and those 45,000 Americans who dier because they are denied health care in the United States by insurance company bureaucrats would get the health care they need if they were Canadians like me.

            The Americans who go to Canada to get the health care they need are not coverered by American insurance at all. When those Americans get the health care they need in Canada because they are denied it by insurance company bureaucrats in the US, it is paid for by CANADIAN TAXPAYERS. They are listed as “homeless”, which they are in Canada, and anyone homeless in Canada (like Americans who cross the border for treatment are) receives medical treatment paid for by Canadian taxpayers as any Canadian does.

            In addition, non citizen permanent residents of Canada (like American citizens) get the same health care as a citizen of Canada gets once they are in Canada for 90 days.

          • Liz

            Stop pushing the hogwash, I processed some of those claims at one time years ago! I also know 80 and 90 year old’s getting new hips, knees, and cardiac devices as well as valves and other body replacement parts in America and it is paid for by insurance and not always by medicare. Some people have elected to keep their own insurance and declined medicare. O’Bama’s administration has already stated it is wanting a single payer system controlled by the government and people are finding out they will not keep their own private insurance but they won’t be keeping their doctor. You are fooling yourself if you think there are no death panels connected to the Affordable Care Act because most of us know they are there, especially when it comes to seniors and some young people. You like Canada, then stay there, I have friends who are Canadian, German, Russian, Italian and they tell a different story. They also say they don’t understand why Americans don’t wake up and see what is going on. They say they left their own Countries because of leaders like O’Bama and where he is trying to take our Country. These LEGAL immigrants say they are scared

          • smilee

            You cannot decline Medicare A, and private insurance companies can not cover you unless you qualify under Medicare C except in gov defined supplement plans to A & B.. You sure have bought into the far right propaganda as what you say is not fact. I hear exactly the opposite from my many relatives in Canada and also in Norway.

          • Vigilant

            “and private insurance companies can not cover you unless you qualify under Medicare C.”

            Private insurance companies can cover anyone for any amount for any reason they choose. Talk about BS!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Like a typical Liberal Progressive, you must resort to manipulative tactics in lieu of facts to support your nonsense.
            There are all degrees of Socialism (to make Social, that is, spread losses over a wide body of people, rather than those directly experiencing the loss).
            Contrary to popular Liberal Progressive belief, there is no Free Lunch. Somebody always pays.
            When you make services available to those who don’t pay for the services, it leads to two events:
            1) More people use services which to them are perceived to be Free (Moral Hazard), thus putting more strain on the producers. Higher demand leads to either higher prices for the remaining scarce goods and services, or to rationing of those scarce goods and services.
            2) The people who are actually shouldering the financial burden become less productive (sink to the lowest common denominator), thus resulting in fewer goods and services being produced and more poverty.
            The Liberal Progressives can jawbone all day long about the benefits of their Big Government, but the facts are there for all to see — More Government leads to Lesser Economies:
            http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Murphy spreads the typical Liberal Progressive lie — “45,000 Americans who dier because they are denied health care in the United States”.
            By law, emergency rooms (right or wrong) must treat all comers.
            Read this to learn more:
            http://www.cato.org/blog/health-care-rights-wrongs

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Pay for your own care. It is as simple as that.

          • Bill

            Hi Liz,
            Medical tourism is becoming more prevalent (and cheaper) in other countries. Find a market and fill it

          • daveH234

            Total CRAP, Liz….Lies and more lies…YOU LIE!!!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            About what, daveH234?

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        You have a choice, PR. Don’t buy the Insurance. I don’t.
        Our present mess is a result of Government meddling. Progressives will never throw in the towel, no matter how much of a mess they make. They always suggest more meddling as the cure for the conditions that their meddling has caused.

        • Progressive Republican

          How is the U.S. having the most expensive, inefficacious healthcare system on Earth is the fault of government meddling? Are you referring to the insurance industry’s anti-trust exemption? Being freed from that would certainly help drive prices up. Is that what you’re talking about?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You don’t really want to know, do you? But for the benefit of the doubt, I will give you these articles to read:
            http://mises.org/daily/5066
            http://mises.org/daily/3793
            http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/catosletterv3n1.pdf

          • Progressive Republican

            Sorry. Citing discredited websites as “proof” is ridiculous. Hilarious, but still ridiculous.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Spoken like a true Progressive. No facts, just Argumentum ad hominem.

          • Progressive Republican

            You’ve confused facts with ideology, thus failing to answer my questions. Your claim of “Argumentum ad hominem” is as ridiculous as your citing disreputable disinformation sites as “factual”.

            Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a speaker’s argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument. The mere presence of a personal attack does not indicate ad hominem: the attack must be used for the purpose of undermining the argument, or otherwise the logical fallacy isn’t there.

            It is not a logical fallacy to attack someone; the fallacy comes from ASSUMING that a personal attack is also necessarily an attack on that person’s arguments. Therefore, if you can’t demonstrate that your opponent is trying to counter your argument by attacking you, you can’t demonstrate that he is resorting to ad hominem. As you undermined your own argument by resorting to those sites. you’ve also undermined your complaint.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        You have a choice of paying for your own medical maintenance if your insurance company does not cover the cost.

        • Progressive Republican

          Yup. And…?

    • vicki

      Harold Olsen writes about Rahm Emmanuelle’s brother:

      According to him, the only productive people in this country are those over the age of 14 and under the age of 40. The rest, basically, are useless.

      Though many people may agree that teenagers are pretty much useless, where does the guy think the 15-40 year old people come from?

      • Beverly Golato

        Harold Olsen is also trying to create a chemical to put in our drinking water that makes men more feminine so they are not attracted to women. All this to cut the population. These two people are sick.
        While our system of healthcare maybe flawed, I would rather have a system that lets me decide with choices. If the Canadians don’t mind the government being involved in their lives then that’s fine for them but I personally do not want the government involved in my personal choices. I personally don’t care about what the Canadians have or don’t have this isn’t a pissing contest to see who is more superior. I want less government in my life not more and this Obamacare is not written to improve the lives of anyone it is about control of our lives by gathering as much personal information as possible and then using it against us. By the way, the web site for sign up was written by Canadians. Everyone needs to go on the web and watch “The Project” it is a compilation of the effort of our enemies to take over the US.

        • Eirc

          .Beverly, Finally, someone replying who gets it. Obamacare is not about health care It is about control. We are losing our freedoms every day. For those of you out there who would give up your freedom for a little “free” healthcare, why not just go live somewhere you can have your “free” health care and leave the rest of us alone? Nowhere in the Constitution does it give the federal government the power to do Obamacare. Freedom is not easy, and it is not free. We always took care of our own. Freedom is why everyone in the world wanted to come here and we became the most prosperous nation.
          Look, this life. Sometimes bad things happen. But to give up, surrender your freedoms for a little “security”, means eventually living under tyranny. Need proof? Read history.
          It happened every time.

          • smilee

            What freedoms do you think your losing????

          • Vigilant

            “What freedoms do you think your [misspelled AGAIN!] losing????”

            Try the Creator-endowed natural right to private property, for starters.

            Today’s Obtuseness Award goes to smilee. Congratulations! That’s 553 days in a row and counting.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Are you joking, Sleepee? If we need to explain to you that being Forced to join a system, which we don’t want to join, is a loss of Freedom, then you are hopelessly ignorant. But then, most of us already knew that.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            If you have to ask then you are telling on yourself that a parasite like yourself lives on the backs of productive people and couldn’t survive without being a parasite.

          • vicki

            Smilee askes:

            What freedoms do you think your losing

            Freedom to choose what product to buy or to NOT buy.
            Freedom to choose whom we share private information.

          • Beverly Golato

            Amen

        • Beverly Golato

          Sorry worded that wrong, didn’t mean to blame Harold, LOL. I was talking about Rahm’s brother.

        • Bill

          Right on, Beverly
          I will make my own decisions also

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Well stated, Beverly.

        • vicki

          this comment deleted by me

          • Beverly Golato

            Read my second post, I apologized for that. Just got ahead myself. Cramped for time and on the way to work.

          • vicki

            no worries. I saw your later post. I will see if I can delete the post.

    • Texan

      Harold Olsen. you had cancer. pre-existing condition doesn’t warrant saving your life, according to the Bachmann’s, Palin’s and Republicans everywhere.

      • vicki

        Illogical claim. Before a doctor can save someone from a medical condition they have to HAVE that condition thus “pre-existing” by definition.

    • FreedomFighter

      By his own definition Rahm Emmanuelle is useless, Obama is useless, 99% of congress is useless, most of government is useless, and most leadership of corporate America is useless, they are all over 40. Though I would bet he does not think that.
      Laus Deo
      Semper FI

  • murphyj87

    The real graft and corruption belongs, and has always belonged, to the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between Americans and a doctor with the health care they need. Almost half of Americans are denied the health care they need by the selfish, immoral, and corrupt insurance company bureaucrat who stands between all Americans, who are not lucky enough to have government provided health care, and a doctor with the health care they need.

    In Canada, over 90% of Canadians have a personal/family physician which they choose and see on a regular basis, and are guaranteesd to receive whatever tests, treatment, surgery, and hospitalization their doctor says they need, with not one cent of out of pocket cost for any doctor’s appointment and anything performed in hospitals.

    Contrary to the corporate propaganda that Americans are deceived into beleiving, very few Canadians would ever even consider getting medical treatment in the United States. Ovder 97% of Canadians get all,of their health care in Canada from birth to their death, with a life span an average of 4 years longer than an American with insurance run health care. On the contrary, over 90% of Canadians and 45% of Americans are aware of the fact that the health care that Canadians get in Canada is vastly better in both access and quality then the health care that most Americans with insurance run health care can have in the United States.

    The fact is, that for every Canadian who goes to the US for medical treatment, over 750 Americans come to Canada for medical treatment. There definitely is a stream across the border of people unable to get proper health care in their country, but that stream is of Americans coming to Canada for medical treatment, not the other way around.

    When the Koch Brothers were bribing Shona Holmes to tell Americans that she had a “brain tumour” and “couldn’t have surgery in time” in Canada, Shona Holmes doctors, including her American doctors at the Mayo Clinic in Phoenix, were putting out a statement, and eventually testified under oath in an Ontario court, that Shona Holmes never had a brain tumour at all, but had a Radke’s Cleft Cyst, an NON LIFE TREATENING BENIGN CYST WITH A MORTALITY OF ZERO %. Beyond that, Shona Holmes doctors, including her American doctors at the Mayo Clinic in Pheonix, testified that Shona Holmes could have had surgery in Ontario in 3 weeks, but waited 6 weeks to have surgery at the Mayo Clinic in Phoenix. Who would you believe Shona Holmes, or Shona Holmes DOCTORS (including her AMERICAN DOCTORS) who say that every word Shona Holmes told Americans was a lie?

    Insurance run health care, with an insurance company bureaucrat standing between you and a doctor, is the is what is greedy, immoral, and corrupt.

    Even Canadians who take sick while visiting or vacationing in the United States refuse American insurance run health care. When Canadians take sick while visiting or vacationing in the United States, the very first, and only thing they do is to rush to the airport and buy a plane ticket back to Canda to be treated by a Canadian doctor in a Canadian hospital.

    Even the American National Instiutes of Health realizes, and says on its website, that of 38 studies comparing medical outcomes for both serious and chronic conditions and for surgery. between Canada and the United States, 71% of those studies determine that Canadians have better medical outcomes in Canada than Americans have with insurance run health care in the United States.

    Studies also show that over 90% of Canadians are satisfied with Canadian health care and like it, while only 26% of Americans are satisfied with insurance run health care, and over 45% of Americans hate American health care and would prefer Canadian health care to the insurance run health care they hate in the United States.

    • rwdodgerblue

      Yes, but I’ve heard that sometimes a person can wait months for surgery, and that many die waiting. Is this true?

      • murphyj87

        That is absolutely false. It is Americans, not Canadians, who die because they can’t get the medical treatment they need. ALL Canadians get treatment and surgery that most Americans can’t have.

        Americans would be far better off, and get faster and better medical treatment if they had Canadian health care than they have with American insurance run health care.

        Most Canadians I know who have had bypass surgery have had it within 4 hours of arriving at the ER. Canadians I know who have had cancer surgery and other cancer treatment have had it within days of being diagnosed.

        What you have :”heard” is what American insurance companies want you to believe, but actual Canadians will tell you what you have “heard” is an absolute lie.

        It is Americans, not Canadians, who die waiting for medical treatment, because Americans are denied the health care they need by the greedy, immoral, and corrupt insurance company bureaucrat who stands between Americans and the health care they need.

        For every Canadian who goes to the US for medical treatment, over 750 Americans come, and have ALWAYS come, to Canada to get the medical treatment they are denied by insurance company bureaucrats in the United States.

      • murphyj87

        That is absolutely false. It is Americans, not Canadians, who die because they can’t get the medical treatment they need. ALL Canadians get treatment and surgery that most Americans can’t have.

        Americans would be far better off, and get faster and better medical treatment if they had Canadian health care than they have with American insurance run health care.

        Most Canadians I know who have had bypass surgery have had it within 4 hours of arriving at the ER. Canadians I know who have had cancer surgery and other cancer treatment have had it within days of being diagnosed.

        What you have :”heard” is what American insurance companies want you to believe, but actual Canadians will tell you what you have “heard” is an absolute lie.

        It is Americans, not Canadians, who die waiting for medical treatment, because Americans are denied the health care they need by the greedy, immoral, and corrupt insurance company bureaucrat who stands between Americans and the health care they need.

        For every Canadian who goes to the US for medical treatment, over 750 Americans come, and have ALWAYS come, to Canada to get the medical treatment they are denied by insurance company bureaucrats in the United States.

        • vicki

          Not everyone agrees taht Canadian health care is all that great.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/nadeem-esmail/canada-free-health-care_b_3733080.html

          Oh and repeating the lie about insurance companies will not magically make it true.

          There is no insurance company that stands between Americans and their doctor therefore there can be no insurance company bureaucrat standing between Americans and their doctor.

          • murphyj87

            No, only over 90% of Canadians think that Canadian health care is better than American insurance run health care. Only 3% of Canadians think that American insurance run health care is better than Canadian health care.

            The fact is, that even Canadians who complain about Canadian health care, complain about American insurance run health care ten times more if they are stupid enough to try the inferior American insurance run health care system.

            Virtually all Canadians would avoid American insurance run health care like the plague it is in any and every circumstance.

          • vicki

            you could at least provide a link to substantiate your “proof by bald assertion”. I did. You can do it too.

          • murphyj87

            This one of the more recent ones of the dozens done since single payer began in 1966:

            “When it came to health care, 45 per cent of Americans felt Canada had a superior system, while 42 per cent thought the United States should stick with its own.

            Meanwhile, the vast majority of Canadians, 91 per cent, felt that Canada’s health care system was better than that of the United States.”

            Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canadians-prefer-obama-over-own-leaders-poll-1.305485#ixzz2hgoLyVYK

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Argumentum ad populum. You gotta love it.
            90% of people score lower than the 90th percentile also. Does that make them smarter than the 10% above the 90th percentile?

          • Don 2

            Good for you hockey puck. Why don’t you tell it to your British colonial supervisor?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            If your Healthcare system is so great, murphy, then why must people be FORCED to join it?

          • Progressive Republican

            He said, “Studies also show that over 90% of Canadians are satisfied with Canadian health care and like it…”

            Clinically that means that less than 10% don’t. congratulations on proving him right in what he said.

            Now, as to your claim of, “There is no insurance company that stands between Americans and their doctor therefore there can be no insurance company bureaucrat standing between Americans and their doctor.” Simply stating that someone wealthy enough to dispense with insurance coverage is hardly the same as what you claim.

            Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Progressive,
            How do you figure that adding thousands of protected Bureaucrats, to intervene in people’s medical decisions, will result in a cheaper system with better results?
            And please explain why, in the face of immense previous medical intervention by Government, you Progressives always blame Free Markets for the failure?
            The myth of Free Market Healthcare:
            http://mises.org/daily/5066

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Won’t those additional Bureaucrats and clerks and enforcers and etc., need their buildings and offices and pay? So a typical Dem/Prog/Leftist does not consider the real COST of their wants and whims.

          • Progressive Republican

            Q 1) I don’t know. Ask the Rethuglicons. This is their idea.
            Q 2) Show me where I blamed the free markets for the failure of whatever it is you’re referring to.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I thought you were a Republican?
            You’ve been outed. Time to change your moniker, Shill.

          • Progressive Republican

            Been one for forty years.

            I’m hardly “outed” chump.

            The moniker of an originalist stays.

            Can’t or won’t answer the question?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No member of the Republican party would say — “Ask the Rethuglicons”. Unless you are freely admitting that you fit that description also.

          • Progressive Republican

            Logic, then, would point out to the logical that there is a difference between a Republican and a Rethuglicon; thus proving your statement to be false. Therefore, no such “admission” could be factually made.

          • vicki

            PR writes:

            Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

            all emergency rooms in the US are required by government to accept anyone.

          • Progressive Republican

            That is not evidence to the contrary. It fails to bolster your claim of, “There is no insurance company that stands between Americans and their doctor therefore there can be no insurance company bureaucrat standing between Americans and their doctor.”

            Try again.

        • FreedomFighter

          The Canadian system has no resemblance to ObamaCare, your system IS NOT OBAMACARE.

          Read ObamaCare then read your law in Canada.
          Laus Deo
          Semper FI

          • murphyj87

            You’re right. Canadian health care (a single payer system which has been in place since 1966) is what American health care SHOULD look like, eliminating American insurance company bureaucrats altogether.

            45% of Americans want a single payer system like we have in Canada, while only 42% of Americans want insurance run health care as most Americans have had. 13% of Americans say they didn;t know enough about the truth of Canadian health care to answer. Most of what American think they know about Canadian health care is just American insurance company propaganda. Anything you see by the Canadian ultra right wing think tank, The Fraser Instiute or by David Gratzer, is purely Koch brothers and American insurance company propaganda. The Koch brothers and the American insurance industry have funded the ultra right wing Fraser Institute and David Gratzer for decades.

          • smilee

            It is far better and many of us want it here, Obamacare is an improvement over what we had but not the solution.

          • Vigilant

            Why don’t you move to Canada, smilee, and become a citizen?

            Of course, the collective IQ of Canada would drop by a full point, but they might be willing to accept someone who is so in love with socialism.

          • vicki

            or you could just move to Canada instead of forcing US to pay for your desires.

          • smilee

            Medicare is not that much difference, I only pay premiums and nothing else. Besides you would be deprived of the opportunity to bitch to me about this.

        • TheOriginalDaveH
          • murphyj87

            Only Americans read The Canada Free Press, Canadians don`t. The Canada Free Press is a pack of lies, and the ;people who write the Canada Free Presws don;t have a clue about Canada or what Canadians think.

            If you believe what;s in the Canada Free Press, you`re far stupider and far more gullible than anyone should admit.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Typical Liberal Progressive response. Tell us specifically what statements of theirs are lies, murphy, and please provide evidence.

          • murphyj87

            “Will governments have the cash to meet the needs of our aging population without increasing debt
            to unsustainable levels?” This question, posed by Auditor-General Sheila Fraser to delegates at last month’s general meeting of the Canadian Medical Association, is extremely important.

            (LIE – Sheila Fraser has not been auditor general for 15 years and there was no CMA meeting last month. The only unsustainable health care system is the inusrance run system in the United States. Canadians pay 10% of GDP for better health care than Americans pay 18% of GDP for.)

            It doesn’t take much detective work to discover that the answer is decisively “no.” Statistics Canada reports that spending on health care
            grew at an average annual rate of 7.4 per cent over the past decade, driving the portion of government revenues spent on health care ever higher.

            (LIE – health care spending in Canada is growing very slowly, health care spending only SEEMS to grow because governments are cutting other thins and the amount of health care spening is pretty static)

            Health costs are cannibalizing government programs, cutting ever deeper into financing for education, social programs and infrastructure. As costs spiral upward, government tax revenues are in for a long, tough climb out of recession levels.
            Ontario and New Brunswick face the prospect of health care costs consuming half of provincial revenues, and other provinces are on track for the same debilitating fate. British Columbia’s $16.5-billion health care budget is up 76 per cent since 2000, and the province’s large and increasingly retired population means the “silver tsunami” will hit our
            Pacific shores the hardest.

            (LIE – health care spending is rising at the rate of inflation. BC had federal funding cut for allowing double billing by private clinics ( charging patients and charging the health care system for the same service) so BC has to make up the difference because it allowed illegal billing and was penalized by lower federal funding. If BC had not let it`s private clinics illegally bill, the BC health budget would be half of what they claim.)

            .
            Health care system deteriorating

            Has such enormous spending growth made our health-care system better? Sadly, it continues to deteriorate. The latest physician survey
            conducted by the conservative Fraser Institute found that Canadians
            waited an average of 16.1 weeks to see a specialist after receiving a
            general practitioner referral, 73- per-cent longer than when the survey was first conducted in 1993.

            (LIE – the Fraser Instiute is funded by the Koch brothers and the American insurance industry and has been for 15 years. Nothing put out by the Fraser Institute has any truth in it, and Canadians know it)

            According to Canadian Institute for Health Information statistics, the most dangerous place in Canada is a public hospital: One in every 152 acute care
            patients dies because of “preventable adverse events,” while two in 10 patients contract a hospital-spread infection or are given the wrong medicine. No Canadian CEO could keep his job if his company’s “defect rate” was even a small percentage of that in our government monopoly health-care system.

            (Lie – of 38 studies comparing medical outcomes between Canada and the United States, 71% of those studies indicate that medical outcomes are better in Canadian hospitals than they are in American hospitals. Deaths from infections ands medical mistakes are a far higher percentage in American hospitals than they are in Canadian hospitals. Canadians are safer in Canadian hspitals than Americans are in American hospitals)

            The 2010 edition of the peer-reviewed Euro-Canada Health Consumer Index from the Frontier Centre for Public Policy shows that, despite the
            fourth-highest per-capita spending, Canada’s health-care system ranks 25th out of 34 compared with European countries.

            (LIE – Canada ranks 7th, and the United States ranks 19th when compared to Europen countries)

            Provincial and federal politicians treat the failing system like a sacred cow, but a recent Ipsos-Reid poll, commissioned by the Canadian
            Medical Association, found that Canadians don’t consider the status quo so sacred. The survey found that 80 per cent worry that the quality of
            the health-care system will decline. It also found that they wonder how the country will pay for increasingly expensive health services, and they believe governments need to show leadership in bringing about change.

            (LIE- over 90% of Canadians are satisfied or very satisfied with the health care they receive in Canada, while only 26% of Americans are satisfied with the insurance run health care they receive in the United States, it is Americans, not Canadians who worry about their health care because American health care is insurance runj and Americans are allowed to die to increasde insutrance xompany profit while they would be alive iand receive the treatment they need if they were Canadians)

            Imagine if governments owned and operated our farms and grocery stores and had the power to decide how much and what kinds of grains, fruits and vegetables
            should be grown, where they would be shipped, and how much we would pay for it. What do you think would happen to the availability, variety and
            quality of goods on store shelves?

            (LIE – Governmernts do a far better job of marketing and pricing than private businesses do. When a government agency set the price of wheat in Canada, we paid $1.30 for a loaf of bread, 6 months later, when the government agency was eliminated and big farm businesses set the price of wheat, we now pay $2.60 to $2.80 for the same loaf of bread we paid $1.30 when the government agency, the Canadian Wheat Board set the price of wheat.)

            I saw the answer during visits to Soviet-era Leningrad (now St. Petersburg): People lined up at stores in early-morning darkness and emptied the shelves within the first hour of opening. The food they
            bought would be repulsive to Canadians and some of it was downright dangerous, leading to a high rate of food poisonings. But because a government monopoly produced the food, consumers had nowhere to turn.

            (This has nothing to do with Canada. Vitrually all Canadians prefer government funded physician run health care to the insurance run death panels of American insurance run health care. Canadians can go to whatever physicians we choose, while the insurance company bureaucrat between you and a doctor tells you what doctor will be your doctor (a network) and you have no choice in doctors.

            Cases of food-borne illness are relatively rare in Canada’s privately managed food system, and when they happen, the company responsible is
            held accountable, creating a huge incentive to supply safe products. We’ve watched our health- care crisis grow for years, yet the bureaucratic “solutions” remind one of the proverbial rearranging of
            deck chairs on the Titanic. Just as doctors are not good at healing themselves, a government-run monopoly is incapable of reinventing itself.

            (LIE – Canadian doctors have far better medical outcomes than American doctors have. Of 38 studies comparing medical outcomes, 71% of them say Canada has better medical oycimes that Americans have, according to the American National Instiutes of Health)

            Usual protests from left-wing sycophants

            Canada’s health system requires major surgery. But what to do? Part of the answer is to
            separate the deliverer of health care from the regulator. There is no reason that publicly financed health care can’t be delivered by private
            sector companies subject to strict quality, transparency and accountability obligations. The other part of the answer is to allow Canadians who are willing to pay for health care out of their own pocket to do so, rather than taking their dollars out of the country for
            medical care. These suggestions will likely draw the usual protests from monopoly-loving union leaders and their left-wing sycophants. But when
            you hear their “no to for-profit medicine” rhetoric, ask why you’re so much safer eating food that is produced “for profit” than when you’re treated in a government-run hospital. If a two-tier user-pay option for medical care is so bad, why does it exist in every country that ranks above Canada in health-care system performance?

            (LIE – it is the People of Canada, not union leaders or leaders of any kind who want Canadian health care just as it is and ahs been since 1966. Any government who even whispered about changing Canadian health care to a rotten system like Americans have, would be voted out before they could blink by trhe vast majority of Canadian voters)

            And there would be another advantage. Instead of being treated like those poor Russians lined up outside a grocery store, you would be seen
            as a valued customer rather than a problem.

            LIE- it is Americans who wait decades, until they get Medicare, to get the health care they needed decades before. Canadians get faster and better medical treatment that the vast majority of American could ever have.

          • TheOriginalDaveH
          • TheOriginalDaveH

            murphy says — “LIE – Sheila Fraser has not been auditor general for 15 years and there was no CMA meeting last month”.
            The article was written in September 2010, dumdum.
            From Wikipedia:
            “In January 1999, she [Sheila Fraser] joined the Office of the Auditor General of Canada as Deputy Auditor General, Audit Operations. She was subsequently appointed Auditor General in 2001. Her 10-year mandate as Auditor General ended on May 30, 2011. During her time in office, a Readers Digest poll listed her as one of the top five most trusted Canadians”
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheila_Fraser

            Two strikes, murphy. I won’t bother reading the rest of your fabricated facts.

          • murphyj87

            There have been TWO Auditors general since Sheila Fraser. The facts which are are the “fabricated facts“ are the ones which Americans tell about the insurance run health care system that 75% of Americans hate.

            Virtually all Canadians are satisfied with the health care they receive in Canada, while 75% of Americans who have to rely on insurance run health care HATE it.

            The only health care system which is unsustainable is American insurance run health care.

            I`d put my health care against your anytime, and head to head, my health care would be vastly better than yours. At some point in your life, yopu will have to come to Canada for medical treatment when the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between you and the health care you need to continue living denies it to you.

            If I had to rely on American insurance run health care, I would have been dead long ago. I had surgery for two lesions in Canada that an American would be denied by the insurance company bureaucrat who denioed most Americqnw the health care they need, If I paid ZERO in the US like I did in Canada, I would have been denied the surgery I needed in the United States

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Hey, Ignoramus, are you saying Sheila didn’t serve as Auditor General until 2011, as the article states?
            murphy says — “I`d put my health care against your anytime”.
            Good for you, murphy. That’s your choice. Now butt out of MY choices.
            I’ll keep the extra $7000 per year income and make my own healthcare choices, thank you.

          • murphyj87

            I`m saying that there have been two auditors general (Kevin Page and Michael Ferguson) since Sheila Fraser was auditor general.

            You do know that we Canadians can see the doctoir we choose whenever we feel we have to, and have whatever health care that doctor says we need, and addition, we are the ones with $7000 in OUR pockets that Americans waste paying to insurance companies andor out of pocket for health care.,

            What Canadians pay in total taxes is 40% of what Americans pay in taxes plus heath costs. Canadians who gross $60,000, for example, average $20,000 in income tax deductions, and pay 15% on their $40,000 taxable income, or $6000 in all counting health care, Family Allowance ($113 per month per child to parents), Old Age Security Pension ($550 per month oer senior over and above Canada Pension (Social Security), and the lowest income 40% of Seniors get up to $1200 a month Guaranteed Income Supplement.

            Many Canadians and most Canadian Seniors receive a refund of the sales tax they pay quarterly.

            Of the taxes Canadians pay, 50% or more is returned to them as government benefits at some point, and often, most, of their lives.

            Canadians have access to health care better than most Americans have, and a MINIMUM of $7000 in their pockets that Americans DO NOT HAVE.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I don’t care if there have been 20 Auditor Generals since Sheila, murphy. You said — “LIE – Sheila Fraser has not been auditor general for 15 years and there was no CMA meeting last month”.
            You are a liar, murphy. Own it. Quit trying to weasel out of it.

          • Don 2

            Maybe we should just annex Canada and make it our 51st. State, then use their healthcare?

          • vicki

            Long list of proof by bald assertion. Not a link to be found anywhere.

          • vicki

            murphyj87 writes:

            “The Canada Free Press is a pack of lies”

            Proof by bald assertion

      • vicatman

        they can wait for months for any medical care. Look and see the taxes they pay there also, Some province’s have as much as 15% sales tax + income taxes, gasoline taxes that are much more than in the US.

        • murphyj87

          What an American pays in taxes + health insurance + deductibles +copays is 2.5 times as much as a Canadian pays in total taxes from all sources.

          What Canadians pay in all taxes is about 40% of what Americans pay in taxes plus all health costs.

          You realize that the 40% of Canadians with the lowest incomes get the sales tax they pay REFUNDED 4 times a year, right?

          Also Canadians get Family Allowance, $113 a month per child from those taxes, and every Canadian Senior get $550 a month Old Age Security Pension over and above Canada Pension (Social Security) from those taxes. Low income Seniors get up to $1200 a month Guaranteed Income Supplement from those taxes.

          50% of what Canadians pay in taxes is returned to Canadians in benefits that Americans have absolutely no equivalent.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Murphy says — “What an American pays in taxes + health insurance + deductibles +copays is 2.5 times as much as a Canadian pays in total taxes from all sources”.
            Easy to say, but here are the GDP per capita figures on a PPP basis:
            US per capita GDP on a PPP Basis — $50,700.
            Canada per capita GDP on a PPP Basis — $43,400

            Clearly Socialism isn’t working for Canada.

        • smilee

          They pay no premiums, deductibles or co pays there, add that on to your taxes and you will see they have a bargain. They spend half per capita for health care than we do, over all theirs is much cheaper. You also do not have waits like you wrongly state

          • Don 2

            They also do not support much of a military, and prefer to rely on the U.S. to protect their butts from foreign attack, just like most of Western Europe. Hence, more money for social programs. Now, if we can get Canada to build a real military and cover our butts, then we can use that money for social programs instead. And to add icing to the cake, we’ll send them Obama and Obamacare. A win-win for all!

          • smilee

            They save half just on health care. So your blabbing is just that, incoherent.

          • Don 2

            Thanks for the laughs smilee. Annoying libs is always fun!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            But they give up twice that amount in GDP per capita.
            Contrary to Liberal Progressive ignorance — There is no Free Lunch.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            US per capita GDP on a PPP Basis — $50,700.
            Canada per capita GDP on a PPP Basis — $43,400.

            US per capita Healthcare costs on a PPP basis — $7960.
            Canada per capita Healthcare costs on a PPP basis — $4314.

            So the Healthcare costs in Canada are $3500 lower, but their GDP per capita is $7000 lower.

            Somebody always pays, Sleepee.

      • smilee

        That is not true just propaganda.

    • vicki

      murphyj87 writes:

      The real graft and corruption belongs, and has always belonged, to the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between Americans and a doctor with the health care they need.”

      Since there is no insurance company that stands between Americans and their doctor there can be no insurance company bureaucrat standing between Americans and their doctor.

      • murphyj87

        Insurance company bureaucrats stand between every American, who doesn’t have government funded health care, and a doctor with the health care they need,

        Over 40% of Americans can’t even see a doctor when they get sick, let alone have any treatment, because the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between them and a doctor with the health care they need to live denies them that care.

        Only 26% of Americans with insurance are satisfied with their access and quallity of health care the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between them and a doctor will let them have. On the other hand, over 90% oof Candians are satisfied or very satisfied with the health care they receive in Canada.

        On a per capita basis, 3.5 Canadians are satisfied with Canadian health care for every American satisfied with American insurance run health care.,

        • vicki

          murphyj87 writes:

          Insurance company bureaucrats stand between every American, who doesn’t have government funded health care, and a doctor with the health care they need,

          Perhaps you should study the American HealthCare system. Doctors are perfectly able to accept money from patients. In fact many doctors give discounts to patients who pay directly.

          • KG

            Yea, vicki, we all have an extra $100K laying around to pay the doctor.

          • murphyj87

            If an American paid for a liver transplant out of pocket in the US, it would cost them $300,000.

            If an American paid for a liver transplant out of pocket in Canada, it would cost them $125,000, and the probabllity of the best possible medical outcome is much better in Canada than it is in the United States.

            Of 38 studies comparing medical outcomes for serious conditions, chronic conditions and all surgery, 71% of those studies show that Canadian health care has better medical outcomes by 5% or more over American insurance run health care, according to the American National Isntitutes of Health.

          • KG

            Just remember, you are dealing with people who believe they can have a gall bladder removed by offering a couple of chickens for payment. Or maybe a cow and a goat. But how do you break a cow? It it two turtle doves and a pear tree? I’ll have to ask a Ron Paul sycophant.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            More nonsense from the KGB Shill who advocates Communism, a proven experiential failure.

          • smilee

            Have a relative in Canada who received a cochlear transplant at no out of pocket cost. Here you pay for it yourself as no insurance covers it and it costs $30,000.00 out of your own pocket. He can hear again and loves it.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Somebody always pays. Unlike Liberal Progressives believe, money doesn’t grow on trees.
            US per capita GDP on a PPP Basis — $50,700.
            Canada per capita GDP on a PPP Basis — $43,400.
            One way or the other the people pay. It is just the difference between being aware of your payment, or not being aware of it like the Progressive Shills prefer for you.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Bragging that you and your relative are parasites.

          • JeffH

            The all un-knowing “servant” and liar smilee must love the taste of his/her shoe leather.

            Cochlear implants are covered by most insurance policies
            http://www.cochlear.com/wps/wcm/connect/us_old/home/discover/cochlear-implants/is-it-right-for-me/insurance-coverage
            Unlike hearing aids, most private and government health insurance plans (including Medicare and Medicaid) provide coverage for the costs of cochlear implants and the tests and services associated with getting them, assuming you meet the implant candidacy criteria. However, you should check with your insurance company for more information.

          • smilee

            I checked Medicare site and it has been added if hearing aids do not work so not everyone can get one, when my relative in Canada got his it was not covered by Medicare and have not checked since then. Medicaid is determined by each state and some limit it to children. private plans now cover, could not find any insurance company that covered when he got his, Nice to know they are now covering it. Thanks

            Medicare is Covered (Patients must meet Medicare criteria for implant candidacy)

            Medicaid is Covered (Patients must meet Medicaid criteria for implant candidacy; some states limit to patients under 21 years of age)

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            References, Murphy?
            Or do you expect us to just believe your conjecture?
            You’re mixing apples and oranges, Murphy, because only about 400 liver transplants take place in Canada each year and the costs range widely (between about $30,000 and $600,000).
            It would not be statistically significant to compare such rare operations between countries.
            Why can’t you Liberal Progressives just die with dignity instead of groveling for somebody else’s Liver and money?

          • vicki

            murphyj87 writes:

            If an American paid for a liver transplant out of pocket in the US, it would cost them $300,000.

            If an American paid for a liver transplant out of pocket in Canada, it would cost them $125,000,”

            Thus indirectly proving KG’s point that you need $100,000 to see a doctor (for ONE condition) and proving my point that KG should shop around for less expensive doctors.

            Now for the vast majority of medical visits the cost is quite a bit less and shopping around for doctors can lower that even more.

          • murphyj87

            No, what that shows is how massively overpriced American insurance run health care is compared to Canadian health care. Canadians pay 10% of GDP for better health care for 100% of Canadians than Americans pay 18% of GDP for inferior insurance run health care and to leave 40% of Americans with no access to health care of any kind at all.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Who does pay that $100K, Cagey?

          • WTS/JAY

            Purchase insurance, dumbbell!

          • Nadzieja Batki

            But you are demanding that other people maintain you by force of government. They may not have money to take care of themselves and their families but they will be forced to maintain you.

          • vicki

            KG demonstrates profound reasoning by writing:
            “we all have an extra $100K laying around to pay the doctor”

            Perhaps you should consider a less expensive doctor.

          • KG

            Yea….right…there’s a tattoo shop down the street that has a santeria whichdoctor who will cure your cancer for $50 bucks.

          • vicki

            So we can presume you are against choice by people to try alternative medicines?

          • KG

            Of course not! If you think chocolate enemas will cure colon cancer then, by all means, indulge yourself!

            Fred Mertz “When I gave Ethel her coffee enema, she screamed her darned head off!

            Ricky Ricardo “Whaat? Too Hot?”

            Fred “Naw, too sweet!”

          • smilee

            Sure they will but few in america have that kind of money, even with discounts they often they pay more than the insurance companies pay so the discount is not a real discount just a gimmick!

          • Nadzieja Batki

            So what you are demanding is that other people maintain you by force of government.

        • Don 2

          Who gives a rats @$$ what Canadians are satisfied with? Why don’t you insist that your government adopt Obamacare?

        • TheOriginalDaveH
      • Progressive Republican

        “Since there is no insurance company that stands between Americans and their doctor there can be no insurance company bureaucrat standing between Americans and their doctor.”

        Only a liar or an idiot would say something so demonstrably untrue.

        • vicki

          umm. Only an idiot would make the claim that a trivial to verify truth is a lie. But your ad hominem is duly noted.

          For any wanting to verify my claim just call up any doctor in your area (USA please) and ask them how much they charge for care when you do not have insurance. For extra credit call up the emergency rooms of hospitals an ask them if they can refuse you if you have no medical insurance.

          • Progressive Republican

            “Only an idiot would make the claim that a trivial to verify truth is a lie.”

            Try again. This time, see if you could make sense. Good luck.

      • smilee

        If you are rich not a problem if you have to depend on insurance that simply is not true.they do get in the way. Most countries have abandoned this model for that reason and have realized much lower costs and better outcomes.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Why do you suppose, Sleepee, that a protected bureaucrat, who doesn’t need to worry about losing customers, who in fact benefits from losing customers, is going to care as much about the people as a company owner who loses money when he loses customers?

          • smilee

            The proof is in the outcomes of all countries that have trit so you BS just does not fly

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You’re correct, Sleepee.
            WHO ranking of Countries’ Healthcare systems:
            #1 France.
            #2 Italy.
            #3 San Marino.
            #37 United States.

            France GDP per Capita on a PPP basis — $36,100.
            Italy GDP per Capita on a PPP basis — $30,600.
            San Marino GDP per Capita on a PPP basis — $36,300.
            United States GDP per Capita on a PPP basis — $50,700.

            I just can’t wait for the US to join them.

          • WTS/JAY

            Lol!

          • Nadzieja Batki

            It didn’t take long for smilee to show his envy and malice toward the “rich” who he sees as depriving him smillee from all the goodies life has to offer. Since the “rich” supposedly get better care at their own cost, smilee believes he should receive the same by way of government force and manipulation.

      • daveH234

        Huh???? Nonsense vicki. THose with Insurance have that ins. guy there. That supposedly is the bulk of Americans!!!

        • vicki

          DaveH234 writes:

          “Nonsense vicki. THose with Insurance have that ins. guy…”

          Irrelevant to the posed question. Since you CAN go directly to the doctor there is no insurance bureaucrat standing in your way. Why even people who HAVE insurance can go directly to the doctor.

    • gswifty

      Well said! As an R.N. of 20 years I have seen the disconnect between what Americans think they’re supposed to receive in health care versus what they actually get. Until they see first hand just how flawed our system really is, they are deluded into believing a for-profit system is better than single-payer. You can blame Obamacare for it’s immediacy, and rightly so,…but it’s just a manifestation of where we’ve been heading as a country for awhile now. I believe that in Massachusetts it’s called Romneycare. Health insurance isn’t health care. Another American institution corrupted to the core by the profit-motive.

  • FreedomFighter

    “…interested in control, power…”
    Socialized Medicine is a required final step in the takeover by socialist/communist. members of the US Government and beyond.
    Excellent article Mr Livingston.
    Laus DeoSemper FI

    • Texan

      Laus Deo. too many PTSD episodes and you see commies everywhere. Psyche ward for you Semper Fi

      • smilee

        Do you always respond to the truth that way? Twist and spin!

    • murphyj87

      The only socialized medicine in North America is US military and DVA health care.

      US Medicare and Canadian health care are single payer systems, not socialized medicine.

      For socialized medicine to be in existance, the government must OWN the hospitals, not just pay physician and hospital bills, and physicians must be civil servants (i.e. not in private practice). US miltary and DVA health care are the only systems in North America which meet the proper definition of socialized medicine Of course, you, as most Americans, use words and terms which bear no resemblance to what they truly mean.

      For both US Medicare and Canadian health care the government does NOT own the hospitals, and physicians are in private practice (not civil servants), so, by defintion, neither US Medicare nor Canadian health care is socialized medicine.

      Obamacare is exactly the same kind of inferior insurance run health care Americans have always had.

      If you use US military and/or DVA health care, you are using the only socialized medicine in North America.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Oh please, Murphy, if the Government is controlling any aspect of the medical care system — It is Socialized. And the Government has been controlling much of the Medical Care system for the last 100 years:
        http://mises.org/daily/5066

      • Vigilant

        What an absolute crock of sh*t!

        Obamacare will bankrupt the US long before the government becomes what the Democrats want it to be, i.e, the very system of complete government ownership you describe.

        “It is better to offer no excuse than a bad one.”
        ― George Washington

  • JMICHAEL270

    Without corrupt politicians on the dole from lobbyist this would not happen. There is no place in DC for lobbyist!

  • Laredo

    So Bob Livingston is an ultra-conservative American. You know what that means. A coward who when our country goes to wr, he’s the one who finds a loophole so someone else can do the fighting. Now he’s sucking up to the special interests Republicans and dissing Obamacare. It hasn’t even started yet. It doesn’t matter. The Republicans got their presidential candidate trounced, and like the schoolyard bullies of yore, they seek revenge. It’s time to make room at Guantanamo for the treasonous GOP. And Bob Livingston.

    • Dale DuBois

      Our candidate got beat by voter fraud and your candidate is a worthless piece of manure.

      • Don Berry

        You are an idiot and a sore loser: typical GOP.

        • satelliter

          LEST WE FORGET

          * In 59 voting districts in the Philadelphia

          region, Obama received 100% of the votes

          with not even a single vote recorded for Romney.

          (A mathematical and statistical impossibility).

          * In 21 districts in Wood County Ohio, Obama

          received 100% of the votes where GOP

          inspectors were illegally removed from their

          polling locations – and not one single vote

          was recorded for Romney.

          (Another statistical impossibility).

          * In Wood County Ohio, 106,258 voted in a

          county with only 98,213 eligible voters.

          * In St. Lucie County, FL, there were 175,574

          registered eligible voters but 247,713 votes

          were cast.

          * The National SEAL Museum , a polling location

          in St. Lucie County, FL had a 158% voter turnout.

          * Palm Beach County , FL had a 141% voter turnout.

          * In Ohio County , Obama won by 108% of the

          total number of eligible voters.

          NOTE: Obama won in every state that did not

          require a Photo ID and lost in every state that

          did require a Photo ID in order to vote.

          Imagine that!

          ARE WE THE DUMBEST NATION ON

          THE PLANET OR WHAT??

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Satelliter,
            Do you have a link for these stats?

          • Max_Rebo
          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Thanks.

          • TML

            satelliter says, “* In 21 districts in Wood County Ohio, Obama received 100% of the votes where GOP
            inspectors were illegally removed from their
            polling locations – and not one single vote
            was recorded for Romney.
            (Another statistical impossibility).
            * In Wood County Ohio, 106,258 voted in a
            county with only 98,213 eligible voters.”

            FYI, these two claims appear to be incorrect.
            http://www.co.wood.oh.us/BOE/Election_Results/2012/Nov%206%202012%20Prect%20Breakdown%20Official.pdf

            http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/elections/Research/electResultsMain/2012Results/20121106turnout.aspx

            satelliter says, “* In Ohio County , Obama won by 108% of the total number of eligible voters.”

            Which Ohio county would they be talking about?

            I don’t like Obama any more than you do, I’m sure, but lets not lose credibility by spreading incorrect information. Check your sources.

          • satelliter

            Obama’s propagander media has been “quoting” lies for 5 years and his dummy supporters believe them, That’s how he has gained so much support. If it works for them with no consequences, it will work for us. Fight fire with fire. If one side has rules and the other doesn’t, guess who will win.

          • Guest

            “…Even today,
            there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by
            imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value
            in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive
            with it…. …No President
            should fear public scrutiny of his program. For from that scrutiny comes
            understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition.
            And both are necessary… …Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed–and no republic can survive. ” – John F Kennedy – President and the Press Speech – April 26, 1961

          • TML

            “…Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it…. …No President should fear public scrutiny of his program. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary… …Without debate, without criticism, no
            Administration and no country can succeed–and no republic can survive. ” – John F Kennedy – President and the Press Speech – April 26, 1961

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Typical brain-dead minion. The PTBs love the fools who chant mindlessly for their team, while the puppet-masters pull the strings of both parties.
          http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Ripoff-Business-Government/dp/0471789070/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381762889&sr=8-1&keywords=the+big+ripoff

    • 1baronrichsnot1

      Hasn’t started! Hell it can’t start, it doesn’t work, will never work! It is a gov’t program, it will spend most of it’s life not working but being propped up with a black hole of money. It is a transfer of wealth, from the successful to the illegals of Laredo. It is a tax program, not a health system, it is a health insurance policy, except it doesn’t pay anything, It is probably free to you because You are a stupid useful idiot, who has to suck up to the gov. tit to survive aren’t you!

      • Bill

        Good analogy, Baron

    • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

      May I remind you & everyone else, that the REpubs. were invited by Obummer to a luncheon while the bill was being crafted & were asked for their suggestions of which they made 2 very crucial ones (1) Tort reform to lower doctor’s malpractice insurance & (2) a congressional law to open insurance purchases across state lines, to drive competition & lower rates…both feel on deaf ears….so, who is in bed with special interests here, Laredo? Sure, the GOP is far from perfect, but they got it right here!!!

      ‘Tis a noble purpose to insure those who cannot afford it, but is a bill with now over 20,000 pages of taxes, regulations, codes, etc that create govt. control & suffocation & higher costs for everyone & less freedom .. for both doctors & patients the way to go???

      • Don 2

        Good points Liz. It is estimated that as many as 30 million will still remain w/o insurance even under Obamacare. It only serves to hurt those 85% who were already happy with their current insurance.

    • Larry

      Please rub the sleep out of your eye, it already started with new taxes first. The only positive is people with preexisting conditions can be covered. Every other person could have been covered all along, it was just a factor of who paid the premium. Do you really think sixteen million illegal folks are just going to step up and sign in.
      Lipstick on a pig makes it look pretty, but it is still a pig and if you want to BBQ it you do not need to burn down your house to create the fire.
      Good Luck to you!

    • Bill

      Laredo
      You must be on the sauce again. It’s always 5:00 somewhere in the world. Go sign up for Obamacare, that should keep you busy for a while

    • Vigilant

      I guess you are at odds with Obama and his (failed) promise to close Guantanamo. Tut! Tut!

    • JeffH

      You must be one of the new “servants” sent in to ridicule this website.

  • jeff BROWN

    The God that made you can heal anything. If people would just learn to believe that, they wouldn’t be spending half their time with the doctor. Healthcare wouldn’t even be considered an industry. Put your faith in Jesus. He heals people.

    • KG

      Mark 2:17
      King James Version (KJV)
      17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

      I guess you don’t need a doctor. Too bad.

  • KG

    What a hoot! A ‘health care’ advocate who doesn’t CARE about healthcare! Bob is about 80 something years old and, apparently in pretty good shape. I say ‘G-d Bless ya, Bob! However, Bob is part of that ‘special’ group of people who have been ‘Lucky’ enough to have good genes and a good life to exhibit the qualities of his ability to ‘thrive’. Most humans on the planet are not as lucky. Many people are born with certain ailments. Others develop disease from the environment they are in.The reality is—WE ARE ALL GOING TO GET OLD AND SICK.

    The so-called ‘death system’ that Bob squeals about actually has saved my life twice. Luckily, I’m a member of a labor union and had good insurance that paid the whole thing. I didn’t have to fill out a single form or pay a penny out of my pocket (that’s what I call Health Insurance ).

    I’m on Medicare and they paid for almost everything. Since I’m retired, my Union Pension pays the rest. Thank G-d for the Union and for FDR! I wouldn’t be here if it were not for those two entities.

    • 1baronrichsnot1

      Hooray! You are exempt! But let’s get this straight now, You were cured and saved twice by the old system?. you also get to keep your old system? The system that actually worked until gov’t got involved? You traded it in for medicare after you retired? But we know you are exempt! I’m starting to not believe you! I think you just like ACA for everyone except you guys! You said you “had” good insurance that paid for every thing. Did you drop it and push for this abortion of ACA? If so why? God, Union, and FDR? Those aren’t entities! Medicaid, welfare, foodstamps are entities, not your church or job!

      • KG

        See my response to Don2

    • Don 2

      KG, You previously tried to claim that Obamacare saved your life when you had brain surgery, then confessed, either accidently or on purpose, that the brain surgery was 11 months prior to Obamacare having been passed by congress.

      Now you admit that you had insurance through a union contract, and are currently on Medicare, not Obamacare.

      The AFL-CIO doesn’t want Obamacare. Trumpka doesn’t want Obamacare. The Longshoremen’s union doesn’t want Obamacare, and even split from the AFL-CIO last Labor Day because Trumpka was for Obamacare before he was against it.

      • KG

        I think you are missing the point. The reason why Trumpka et al seem to disagree with the President is because THEY THINK HE DID NOT GO FAR ENOUGH! In other words, what the Labor Movement has been fighting for the last 100+ years is partially realized through Medicare. However, the goal has always been Medicare FOR ALL. A ‘single payer’ system, the one that was thrown-out at the beginning because it was thought of as too difficult to enact. But the Republicans ‘helped’ the ACA by sabotaging it the whole time until we have the problems that we see today.

        It may not happen this year, but, eventually America will have to make a choice – between Doctors who become obscenely rich at the cost of our Government, or care for all paid for by one payer.

        • Don 2

          Americans will have to make a choice alright – between being treated by a nurse practitioner who received a degree on-line or a physician assistant. Getting treatment from a highly trained medical doctor will be a thing of the past.

          Who knows KG, maybe I’ll be giving you your next lobotomy?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You’re too late, Don.

          • Vigilant

            Good one!

      • smilee

        AFL-CIO wants changes to Obamacare they do not want to scrap it like the tea baggers do.

        • Don 2

          Sure, as usual, the AFL-CIO wants favors from Obama and the Democrats for their own self-interest. Screw the rest of America!

          The Tea Party is looking out for the rest of America.

          • KG

            Sure, as usual, the Chamber of Commerce wants favors from Bush and the Republicans for their own self-interest. Screw the rest of America!

            The Tea Party is looting the rest of America.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Would you make up your mind, Cagey? You either love the Crony Capitalists or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways.

          • Don 2

            Bush…..is he still running the show?

            P.S. – Unions don’t provide the jobs K.G.

          • smilee

            No one ever said they did so why the stupid statement?

          • Don 2

            If a statement is factual, it can hardly be stupid.

          • smilee

            Your so right and it was not true so it was stupid!!

          • Don 2

            You can’t have it both ways smilee. Do unions pay the employees wages, or do companies pay the employees wages?

          • JeffH

            YOUR? Ignorant dolt!

          • smilee

            The tea party if it got its way would destroy our economy and our country. They know not what they do. AFL-CIO wants single payer which is far cheaper and much better and that would be for all not just union.

          • Don 2

            Sure smilee. If the AFL-CIO cannot continue to provide its members Cadillac healthcare policies which are better than non-union members healthcare policies, there’s another good reason that workers do not to need a union, and do not need to pay those expensive union dues.

          • smilee

            Wages. Average dues are less than $100 a month wages on average are $800 more per month more than non union, (labor dept numbers) that is just one plus, it is an investment that seem to go over the heads of you dummies.

          • Don 2

            smile, just to clear the air, at one time I was a U.A.W. member, then an AFSCME Council 82 AFL-CIO union member, steward, and board member, and a department head manager whose line item workers were I.B.E.W. union members. As a manager, my retirement benefits exceeded that of the I.B.E.W. members. So, don’t try to lecture me regarding unions…..boy.

          • smilee

            If you hate unions that bad why did you suffer though all that if you hate them so bad? Sure different than my experience and I was involved almost forty years almost as active as you claim and certainly much longer, not so sure you are not BSing me.Managers. yes, get more and then some but not those non union members not in management. Managers were I worked got more than us to but they were also over paid as most in management are today

          • Don 2

            First of all, I do not have a problem with unions in private industry. Competition keeps them in line. Public employee unions, on the other hand, do not have any competition, nor do the taxpayers have anyone representing their best interest at the bargaining table.

            “Why did I suffer through all that?” By that, I assume you are asking why was I in a union? You don’t have an option to join the union in a union shop…..if you want the job.

            It wasn’t until my experience as a manager that I opened my eyes to the ills of “public employee” unions and what a drag they are on productivity, not compensating or promoting the best workers, while rewarding those not deserving of reward, simply because they are dues paying union members. Let me stress the point…..I am referring strictly to “public employee” unions, although I am aware of the union “job specs” issues, public and private, such as what a “technician” is allowed do vs. what an “electrician” is allowed to do vs. what an “operator” may be allowed to do, irrespective of the fact that all are qualified to do the work, and never shall they cross, resulting in many wasted man-hours, additional expense, and holding up the progress of work in general.

            State laws have been passed to protect worker rights and safety, making those issues moot.

            Public employee unions are political animals of the worst kind, using their political clout when they don’t get what they want through negotiations or the grievance procedure.

          • smilee

            Private empoyees and Public employeee are both human beings with the same needs.. Unions are about people and I guess you think discrimination is acceptable. You do not have to join a union but in states that allow what is called union shops allow contracts with mandatory representation but they do not require it. So if you were in one of those it is because that is what the majority of your fellow workers in your bargaining unit voted to have. Public employees are subject to the constant changing winds of politics so to them union are real real important but you seem to have no concern for the employee only the employer and that happens to a lot of managers because they develop a dictator complex and want to manage as a dictator and that seems to be your problem.

          • Don 2

            Taxpayers are human beings.

            Taxpayers do not owe you or anyone else a job at their expense.

            The public employer you are unconcerned with is the taxpayer – the American people.

            Your mind is clearly so screwed up that you actually believe that the public employee has more rights and more of a right to a job, than the taxpayer has to his own money. I have seen some really despicable lowlifes in my day, but you take the cake.

          • lakeside227

            Simple smilee is unable to look at things objectively, facts don’t matter to him/her….

            He/she has no credibility at all. :)

          • smilee

            Your saying it is ok for the taxpayers to treat their employees as second class citizens. There should be no difference as the taxpayer being the employer or any other employer. Despite your stupid take the gov cannot operate without employees.and must hire them but that should not give the taxpayer the right .to act like they are Superior as they are not. You seem to think they are, Gov employees are dependent on the gov to make their living the taxpayer is not. You are greedy, selfish and cheap. I never worked for any gov.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Tea-Baggers? More foulness from the people who want to run our lives.

          • Vigilant

            …and smilee claims to be a Christian. Doesn’t stop him from being foul mouthed, does it?

          • JeffH

            Ya just can’t fix stupid!

        • S.C.Murf

          They don’t want changes, they want to be on their own health care systems. You lie

          up the hill
          airborne

          • smilee

            They want single payer and have for a long time, your so ignorant.

    • WTS/JAY

      Are you a shill for the medical-industrial-complex, KG? Of course, you are! And all this time you had us believing you were a socialist stooge.

    • smilee

      I am having the same experience, was a teamster for 40 years. Never could understand why some people are so against unions when they make your life so much better. I think those non union ones are just jealous.

      • KG

        You got a point there. Everybody believed Reagan and became ‘entremanuers’ and didn’t pay their SS taxes. Now, they want to retire and CANT! Too bad!

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          I love it. Give these Socialist Progressives enough rope and they always hang themselves.
          Cagey reveals his true “compassion”.

      • Don 2

        Public employee unions are the problem. Even FDR was against public employee unions. The taxpayer has no one at the table representing their interest, other than a corrupt Democrat politician who was elected with the help of union funds and votes, and is now going to reward those same union members with higher wages and bigger benefits at the expense of the taxpayer, in expectation that the union will again support him/her when re-election time comes around.

        Government bailouts to unions are another problem. Much of the $787 billion stimulus Democrat slush fund went to keep public employee union members fat and happy, in order to keep them supporting and voting for Democrats, again, at the expense of the taxpayers.

        • KG

          quote:Much of the $787 billion stimulus Democrat slush fund went to keep public employee union members fat and happy

          No. Wrong. You imply that the sudden homelessness of millions of people would have been a Good thing?

          I thought you guys were just a little deluded, but it seems more like the ‘heart of Darkness’.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Says the Feudal Lord as he whips his Serfs.

          • Don 2

            KG, your I.B.E.W. self-interest is showing. Pain for the rest of America – no pain for union members, again, at taxpayer expense.

          • PUMPKIN PUSS

            Most of stimulus went to states so they would not have to make tough decisions to cut the fat & balance their books..i.e lay off public union workers or have them give something back, which has worked in Wisconsin & other states with conservative governors, Indiana, New Jersey, etc…that stimulus money was just a DEM payback to their base, that money is now gone & many states are in worse shape. Then, the DEMs have the nerve to count those public unions jobs not cut, as “Jobs Created”….UNREAL!! You can’t make this nonsense up!

          • Don 2

            Right on, right on! And w/o more Democrat slush funds from the taxpayers, the chick-e-e-e-n-n-n-s-s, will come home to roost!

          • Vigilant

            Also Sprach KG, who lives in the “Heart of Dumbness” along with his fellow traveler, smilee.

          • Frank Kahn

            Very little of the stimulus went to homeless people. He is right about it going to unions. If you are implying that kept them from being homeless, that is disingenuous. There are millions who are already homeless that could have benefited more from that money.

        • Bill

          Good analogy, Don
          Private sector unions have to compete so there is validity, but public sector unions are just power bases for politicians and have no competition

      • WTS/JAY

        smilee says: Never could understand why some people are so against unions when they make life so much better for the union bosses.

        Salaries for the 10 largest unions’ bosses range from $173,000 for the United Auto Workers’ Bob King to $618,000 for Terence O’Sullivan, the president of the Laborers’ International Union of North America. AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka makes about $283,000 per year. Gerald McEntee, the president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME), makes $480,000.

        Yeah, you’re right, smilee, life is sooooooo much better for the union bosses!

        • smilee

          That is not Local Business reps. that is the heads of unions, Ceo’s get 5 to 10 million so .it is peanuts by comparison and you never bitch about that. Never the less the average member makes almost ten thousand more per year more than their non union counterparts. Every union member does much better but you ignore that fact. It is well worth it. My pension is $1,000 more per month than the non union employees were I worked and I made more money so my SS is about $300 more. It is much better for all in the union.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Cagey says — “I didn’t have to fill out a single form or pay a penny out of my pocket (that’s what I call Health Insurance )”.
      Ahh yes, that money just grows on Trees for Liberal Progressives.
      How fun it must be to ride on other people’s backs with no conscience.
      How to explain KGB? Read this:
      http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/beware-the-psychopath-my-son/

      • KG

        Considering the economists you worship have all showed a disdain for Democratic action among the common people, it would seem obvious that the true psychopath is calling the proverbial Kettle ‘Black’.

        What makes you think that Union members who work hard all day are ‘less than’ elitist, fatherless, selfish, wealthy nutballs such as yourself?

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Actually, Cagey, it is just the opposite. Libertarians advocate Free Choice, and Voluntary Trade. It is the Power-hungry Progressives, like yourself, who want to Force their ways on other people.
          Don’t pretend to be anything other than the Evil man you are, Cagey.

        • Vigilant

          “Democratic action among the common people?”
          My my, now communism becomes “Democratic action?”

        • S.C.Murf

          Union members that work hard all day, are you crazy man? I have been associated with the UTU, Machinist union, John Deere and several others and saying that union members work hard ALL day is an out right LIE. Go feed your [expletive deleted] somewhere else.

          up the hill
          airborne

          • WTS/JAY

            Union members find every excuse imaginable not to work!

    • Bill

      Kg,
      You will soon lose your great union insurance when Obamacare goes into effect

    • Vigilant

      FDR was adamantly against public sector unions. What’s your take on that?

      • KG

        The ‘problem’ with public sector Unions started with Reagan after he fired the PATCO strikers. At the time, if you remember, most of the good paying jobs were in the private sector. Many people avoided working for the Government due to it’s relatively low pay and long hours. However, to get qualified people to do Government work, Unions were encouraged to provide an incentive for people to work in the public sector. At the same time, Republican propaganda has helped to eliminate most private sector unions. People who are qualified will work for whomever offers them the most. And so Public sector jobs are as coveted as the private sector jobs were.

        In a sense, Reagan’s ‘chickens’ have come home to roost.

  • 1baronrichsnot1

    Bob, you got all the falacies down!~ We now know that ACA isn’t about healthcare, it’s about selling or not selling policies (taxes) and power. It gives this so called executive branch and senate, fodder to head fake the people into thinking they will have something, something resembling a policy, and for “free.” In reality no one in the administration gives a flying crap if we are insured or not! It is more divide and conquer, look what I can GIVE YOU! The website doesn’t even work, when they do get on, find out what they owe, they leave, if they can, most of the time you can’t get out. Well now, it wasn’t free. However it is a good move toward marxism though! That’s what it is designed to do, and it is working, except that it isn’t now is it? It is a trainwreck! As any other gov’t program you can name! Just name one that isn’t so convoluted and disfunctional that it will last another 2 years! Kinda makes you think that maybe the founders were right, the enumerated powers of feds is all they can do, cause what they do creates pyramids and disfunctional failures, and so the leftover powers not enumerated has to go to the states!

  • Warrior

    Oh Look. More hidden benefits in the NOCare Program.

    It’s being called Obamacare’s “wedding tax.” Provisions of the healthcare reform bill discourage marriage — and encourage divorce.

    According to a report by PJ Media, married couples can save thousands of dollars on healthcare premiums if they get a divorce and continue to live together.

    That’s because Obamacare is designed to provide healthcare benefits that are substantially more generous for lower-income people, and the bill counts a married couple’s income jointly.

    Using a calculator from the Kaiser Family Foundation, PJ Media’s Tom Blumer gave the example of a 60-year-old married couple with no children in the household, with identical annual incomes totaling $62,041. Obamacare premiums rise sharply when combined earnings hit $62,041.

    If they remain wed, their net premium next year would be $16,382. But unmarried individuals can earn up to $45,960 before losing Obamacare’s subsidies, so if the couple divorces and each reports an income of $31,020.50, their combined net premium would be $5,354. That’s a savings of $11,028 next year.

    Blumer also offers the example of a 40-year-old couple with two children and incomes of $70,000 and $23,000.

    Their combined income is $93,000, and subsidies disappear at $92,401 for married pairs with two children. Their combined premium would be $11,547 next year.

    But if they divorce and give custody of the children to the lower-earning spouse, one spouse’s premium would be $3,857 and the other’s would be $460, for a total of $4,317. That’s a savings of $7,230 next year.

    Blumer observes: “Clearly, many couples who are considering marriage, especially after several years of seeing formerly married couples regress to cohabiting, will look at Obamacare’s ‘wedding tax’ and say, ‘never mind.’

    “The effect on society will be incalculable, and certainly not for the good.”

    However, the law in many states says a couple cannot cohabit indefinitely and still claim not to be married.

    The IRS could find those couples who are claiming they are not wed for healthcare subsidy purposes, leading to this scenario, according to Blumer: “Those caught and punished by the IRS carrying out its new role as the de facto ‘marriage police’ could get hit with multi-year bills for undeserved ‘tax credits’ running into tens of thousands of dollars.”

    • Arkansas Girl

      Well Subsidies are not a issue in Arkansas, there is no Subsidies at all. So Poor and Working Poor are really taking a hit here. NO Help for states with no Subsidies.

      • smilee

        Under the ACC every one up to 400% of poverty level gets some subsidies. Arkansas took the medicaid expansion so they are getting a lot more money too from the fed for s that I think your wrong.

      • Karolyn

        I think that is the states that refused to expand Medicaid. SC is in the same boat.

    • mari

      Well, I say do what gay people do. Get married in a ceremony, without the government being involved. For me it is a commitment before God, not big brother. If the government had stayed out of the officiating, and licensing of marriage it would have been better (like everything they get in involved in would be). All of the control and convoluted laws around marriage would be moot. The government gives marriage a fake stability and structure. We could have had better protection with contracts instead of certificates. In reality, the government made laws that gave them more and more control over lives. At first there were great tax breaks, so we didn’t notice or mind the control. Now the institution of marriage is gutted and is another rotting corpse in the wake of a hostile government takeover.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Once you understand that Big Government is just a very large self-interested self-perpetuating Gang, then everything they do becomes clear.
        “To say governments were formed to protect the rights of men would be historically incorrect. Almost all governments were formed by ruthless men exerting their will over others through the use of force. Some governments, over time, evolved toward the rule of law, perhaps only because their rulers saw that this would sanction their own continued enjoyment of the wealth that they possessed. In some instances, this evolution involved one or more “revolutions” in which those who were governed were able to better establish the rule of law” — Clifford Thies.
        http://mises.org/daily/3427

        • smilee

          Your a union hater without any real knowledge of unions as your post of lies makes clear.

          • WTS/JAY

            And so is Obama a union-hater, what’s your point, smilee?

          • independent thinker

            I don’t think Obama is a union hater but rather he is a union user. He could care less about them one way or the other

          • WTS/JAY

            A more accurate statement! TY.

          • S.C.Murf

            Obama used the unions to get the vote and health care, got what he wanted and now TIME to kick them to the curb.
            Take a look people right now is a prime TIME to implement the world currency and the world bank (IMF) and the world govt.. Already have the world armed forces (UN). Even China is saying it’s TIME for America to step down and de-Americanize the world. Won’t be long now.

            up the hill
            airborne

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I dislike anybody who Forces their way on others. Thus I dislike Unions. You are a Forcer and a Thief, Sleepee. Don’t try to take the moral high-ground, because you aren’t moral.

          • independent thinker

            Liberalism: Moochers electing looters to steal from producers.

          • Vigilant

            Well now, smilee, if Dave’s a union hater, what would you call the government folks who want to deny the exemption to unions? Union lovers?

          • JeffH

            YOUR?

            The “Servant” makes another informative and highly intelligent contribution to this thread.
            LMAO!

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            OMG! I see the pop up target has come back. Here is an article that will nip Obama bin Laden in the backside about Lybia.
            http://www.lastresistance.com/3345/obamas-libya-blowback-marines-made-ready-italy/
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out traitor.
            “The right of bearing arms is declared to be inherent in the people.”
            Fisher Ames

          • smilee

            The Propaganda Kid strikes again, spreading his lies and filth!

      • Bill

        Good analogy, Mari
        “Contracts over certificates” is the way of the future.

    • Bill

      Hi Warrior,
      The IRS has always had a “marriage penalty”. I have known many couples that have gotten divorced so they receive higher benefits

  • Liz

    This writer neglects to mention the illegals bringing the current resurgent of these diseases into our Country. Years ago small pox started being reported again, this disease was eradicated years ago in our Country, now it is back mostly in California and South Florida. Now Tuberculosis, Gee, I wonder why?

    • red neck

      I don’t believe that anyone has forgotten the fact that illegals will receive a “free” ride on the health-care train… After all they always vote democrat regardless of their legal status, the illegals will simply be ushered into a system.

      • Bob666

        Don,
        Illegals get free health care and vote?

        • WTS/JAY

          From About.com:

          What do you think about U.S. programs that help illegal immigrants find free health care in the U.S.? According to http://www.corruptionchronicles.com, such programs exist and are set to expand. “Ventanillas de Salud (Health Windows) in Spanish and its mission is to help illegal immigrants find U.S. hospitals, clinics and other government programs where they can get free services without being deported for violating federal immigration laws.”

          Apparently the programs are available in a number of states and are reported to “annually costs U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars.” But, according to the same article, “The Mexican consul in Los Angeles proudly announced that nearly 300,000 Mexicans in the area have benefited from his government’s health referral program, which he says actually saves the county money by encouraging immigrants to seek preventive care rather than waiting for more expensive emergency treatment.”

          As you can see, if one takes the time to obtain all the facts, this is a tough topic to pick sides with. On one hand, it is hard to hear about illegal immigrants getting free health care when over 40 million U.S. citizens stilllack health insurance. But, on the other hand, if the immigrants are here and do need health care, would we want to be a society that would turn the other way?

          http://personalinsure.about.com/b/2007/05/31/free-health-care-for-illegal-immigrants.htm

          • rbrooks

            what do you think about the bush/gop farm bill that gave immigrants the right to receive food stamps?

            what do you think about the open door immigration policy that allows the manipulation of the labor market?

          • WTS/JAY

            What do you think about the fact that the current-administration is continuing on the path to destroy America?

          • Jana

            I didn’t like it under Bush and I don’t like it under Obama. Do you think 2 wrongs make a right?

          • gelliott

            WTS/Jay – I agree. This is a tough moral issue. However, I think we should allow them to go
            to privately funded charity clinics if they are here illegally and need healthcare. Our government should not be in
            the business of paying for healthcare for illegal immigrants. We should also amend the 14th
            amendment to remove the requirement of awarding US citizenship to children born
            in this country to non-citizens. And yes,
            we ought to update our immigration laws to more liberally give temporary work visas
            to non-citizens to come here and work for short specified periods of time. However, when we allow non-citizens to stay
            here for long periods, they show disrespect for our country, our laws, and our culture. Those are not the kind of people we should
            encourage to come and stay in this country as US citizens.
            We need immigrants who want to be Americans, and are willing to work to
            earn citizenship, not foreigners who have little regard for the country other
            than a means of making a living and getting social safety net benefits. Those people will never be good Americans,
            and this country will fail to progress like it has in the past if we ignore
            this.

        • WTS/JAY

          In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden­tial vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Cen­sus Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida, and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.

          Florida is not unique. Thousands of non-citizens are registered to vote in some states, and tens if not hundreds of thousands in total may be present on the voter rolls nationwide. These numbers are significant: Local elections are often decided by only a handful of votes, and even national elections have likely been within the margin of the number of non-citizens ille­gally registered to vote.

          Yet there is no reliable method to determine the number of non-citizens registered or actually voting because most laws to ensure that only citizens vote are ignored, are inadequate, or are systematically undermined by government officials. Those who ignore the implications of non-citizen registration and voting either are willfully blind to the problem or may actually favor this form of illegal voting.

          Americans may disagree on many areas of immi­gration policy, but not on the basic principle that only citizens—and not non-citizens, whether legally present or not—should be able to vote in elections. Unless and until immigrants become citizens, they must respect the laws that bar non-citizen voting. To keep non-citizens from diluting citizens’ votes, immigration and election officials must cooperate far more effectively than they have to date, and state and federal officials must increase their efforts to enforce the laws against non-citizen voting that are already on the books…

          http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

          • rbrooks

            most americans have no clue about immigration. or voting rights.

          • red neck

            I believe that you are totally wrong yet AGAIN…. Americans do understand voting laws it is that the government don’t give a chit about the “law” because at least half of their constituents are illegal voters and many more dead votes.

          • Jana

            especially you.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Have the Smallpox vaccinations suddenly failed? Or did they have nothing at all to do with the decline in Smallpox?
      “On June 5, 1937, Dr. William Howard Hay testified before Congress about the effectiveness of the smallpox vaccine in the Philippines. Dr. Hay describes a vaccination program spanning a six-year period in which 10,000,000 people (95% of the population) were repeatedly vaccinated. In spite of vaccinations a terrible smallpox epidemic ensued. It was four times as fatal as any that had occurred before vaccinationa death rate of 60% as opposed to the usual 10% to 15%”.
      Read the whole article here:
      http://drrimatruthreports.com/another-must-read-article-on-vaccination-at-gun-point/

  • alboy5

    Thank god for Canada. Obamacare will only provide DeathPanels that will tell you to die. You will have to go to Canada or some other foreign country to get actual care, and yes pay an exorbitant amount of money extorted by Obamascamcare.

    • Cookiepress

      I live in the Myrtle Beach area of SC and have talked to many Canadians who get their health care here when they come on vacation as opposed to getting it up there.

      • murphyj87

        The fact that you know Canadians who vacation in the United States is proof that you only know a handful o Canadians. over 60% of Canadians who vacation outside of Canada vacation in Cuba, because they don;t have to put up with arrogant, uneducated American idiots there

        Only 3% of Canadians would ever even consider getting medical care in the United States. In all likelihood, they just have their blood pressure checked there, If there were anything seriously wrong with them, they would be hightailing it back to Canada to be treated by a Canadian physician and in a Canadian hospital.

        Only a handful of Canadians would ever get medical treatment in the United States. For every Canadian who gets medical treatment in the United States, over 750 Americans cross the border to get medical treatment in Canada.

        In 2011, 2600 Canadians (out of 34..5 MILLION) got medical treatment in the United States, while about 1,972,500 Americans crossed the border to get medical treatment in Canada.

        If you think Canadians complain about Canadian health care, wait until they complain ten times more about American insurance run health care.

        If you walked down the sidewalk in any Canadian city or town, and talked to everyone on that sidewalk during the course iof a whole day, you would be hard pressed to find even ONE Canadian who had, or ever would, get medical treatment in the United States, and likely none of .then even KNOW a Canadian who went to the United States for medical treatment.

        I know many times more Americans than you know Canadians (I WORKED in the US for 7 years and I always came back to Canada for all health care), and the Americans I know hate American insurance run health care and always come to Canada for all of their medical treatment, as do my 27 American cousins. Virtually every American that I know, have worked with, or am related to, prefers Canadian health care to the insurance run health care they had in the United States for the decades

        • gelliott

          Murphyj87 – humm……………I know several
          Canadians, and while they don’t constantly complain about Canadian healthcare, we do know of one who died because she couldn’t get an appendectomy soon enough due to the waiting list. Nevertheless, I give Canadians more credit than to go all the way to Cuba for healthcare when it’s not available in Canada. Of all the wonderful places to vacation, I don’t think of Cuba as one of them after so many years of deprivation those poor people have had to live under.

          If you think American insurance companies have been difficult to work with, just wait until you get to deal with the IRS. That’s what I call “jumping from the frying pan into the fire.” Of course, insurance companies and sometimes doctor’s office staff can be real pains in the A$$, but IRS agents can not only be that but they can also be tyrannical bast^*#s with whom you can’t argue. With them, it really is “their way or the highway.”

          I hope you enjoy your ACA. The vision may be “beautiful” but the reality is likely to be “different.”

        • Jana

          Yes, and you know every Canadian that ever lived. You just know it all. Wow how smart you must think you are.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      You may not be allowed to go anywhere if it is decided that travel is restricted.

  • alboy5

    Repeal Obamacare and and send the imposter Obama bin Laden back to Kenya.

  • Arkansas Girl

    I think that if they had wanted to help those with a pre-existing condition or someone that had been told they had spent the limit that insurance allowed. If for some reason child rejected, then the way to fix these problems would be to submit to Medicaid 3 copies of rejection letters, and then those folks would go on Medicaid, and pay the government according to their income, what they can or could afford toward that Medicaid.

    • Arkansas Girl

      This would not have affected all of us and changed our prices, and force people that do not want insurance into the system.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        It isn’t about helping us. It’s about controlling us.

        • Bill

          Good analogy, Dave

        • fenix1

          This Law really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it’s just a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law is fully implemented, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed. The States and the People will have little say in anything. So much for the 10th amendment!

      • lakeside227

        AG,

        You are thinking logically. As with other liberal ideas, obamacare is NOT about ensuring everyone has affordable access to health insurance. If that were the case, Congress would be addressing the REASONS health insurance AND medical care is so expensive. They aren’t. Just as with crime and terrorism, the goal is control. Gun control advocates DON’T address the CAUSES of gun crime – and ALL crime – they focus not on the criminal, but the law abiding. It is their sincere belief that government MUST control every part of our lives. Take the TSA, do their unconstitutional actions and violations of our Rights deter or catch terrorists? NO. The goal is to control the People.

    • Bill

      Hi Arkansas Girl,
      That is a great idea. The problem with that idea is that it is too simple and it would work. Helping the uninsured was just the line used to sell this new power grab

  • red neck

    It is going to be very interesting to see what the governments actions will be when they figure out that many of those that they thought would pay for this communist / socialist program refuse…. Fines and the theft of ones personal property for not being a part of this unconstitutional bogus “law” is a very dangerous and unpredictable realm to get into….

  • WTS/JAY

    Mr. Livingston, you NAILED IT!!!

  • WTS/JAY

    Rejected: Unions Will NOT Get a Special Obamacare Exemption…

    The labor unions just suffered another powerful blow as they realized that they won’t be exempt from the Obamacare exchanges. This means that the perks of being in a union just took a hit. Ironically, Obamacare will now undermine unions that are already starting to collapse.

    Remember, the unions have been campaigning against Obamacare since they found out it will hurt their members… this is after they campaigned for it.

    Most major unions have called for it to be either repealed or reformed, saying it hurts “millions of workers”.

    This is a great development, because the idea that the unions should be able to be exempt from a law that they campaigned for the rest of us to be forced to follow is completely tyrannical — at best. The Obama administration was looking for a way to legally make the exemption, but it turns out… there isn’t one.

    This shows how corrupt the Obama administration really is, once again. Remember, congress already has an exemption. Their goal isn’t equality or anything like that — they want to rule over us with special rules and special privileges.

    From The Blaze:

    In a leak to the Washington Post Friday, a White House official said the administration ”does not see a legal way for individuals in multi-employer group-health plans to receive individual market tax credits as well as the favorable tax treatment associated with employer-provided health insurance at the same time.”

    “[T]hey’re not necessarily happy about it,” the Washington Post reports, adding labor bosses are looking into the idea. “It means giving up the advantages they get by being associated with employers, and it will entail significant disruption for their members.”

    Following the Washington Post’s revelation, the Treasury Department issued a formal letter explaining the White House’s reason for turning down union requests.

    Treasury’s announcement comes just days after the AFL-CIO, one of the largest private sector unions in the United States, passed a resolution stating Obamacare, which it branded as “highly disruptive,” will force workers and employers to abandon their union-sponsored health plans because they’ll become too costly.

    You can see the Treasury Department’s letter below:

    http://www.capitalisminstitute.org/unions-do-obamacare/

    • Vigilant

      “Obamacare will now undermine unions that are already starting to collapse.”

      Well, that’s the first POSITIVE thing about Obamacare I’ve heard that makes any sense..

      • rbrooks

        the idiots are trying to eliminate unions and labor laws so they will have the right to work for less.

        • Vigilant

          The only idiots you could possibly be talking about are the ones touting Obamacare….looks like they are the ones responsible for the bait and switch on the unions.

          I’m just lovin’ it!

          • rbrooks

            the idiots have been trying to eliminate unions and labor laws since reagan. which is really funny. considering what a strong union supporter reagan had been in the past.

            i agree tho.

            watching the right to work folks get the right to work for nothing is hilarious.

            ahca will follow the same path as social security and medicare. the brain dead will demand an end to these socialist/communist/liberal programs, as they are the first to sign up for those same programs.

            and that is even funnier.

          • gelliott

            Rbrooks – Regarding your statement “ahca will follow the same path as social
            security and medicare. the brain dead will demand an end to these
            socialist/communist/liberal programs, as they are the first to sign up for
            those same programs.”; everyone likes the benefits they get from these
            programs, so they will vote for them and use them if there is an immediate
            benefit. However, when you’ve got a
            declining number of young workers paying for these programs and an increasing
            number of older workers & retirees benefiting from them, they start looking
            a lot like Ponzi schemes. If the trend
            continues long enough, the government will have no choice but to increase taxes
            (probably on everyone) and reduce benefits until the programs collapse. It’s just inevitable if you take the trend
            out far enough. Since central government
            planning has not proven it can do much about the changing demographics over
            decades without usually impairing the economy and/or reducing citizen freedoms,
            it is generally better to design these programs as savings and/or investment
            programs whereby individuals get to put aside money (possibly with some
            government help) for their future needs.
            In other words, these programs need to be converted from cash flow to saving/investment
            programs to prevent the kind of issues we’re facing today. Today all revenue goes into the government’s
            general fund, regardless which tax source they come from, and are allocated to
            various spending projects based on politicians favorite program of the day, and
            without a lot of thought to how this will affect us in the future. Their assumption is that there will always be
            enough money somewhere to fund anything they think is important. I’m trying to make this point without getting
            into a “socialist vs. capitalist” argument.
            I think this is just a matter of fact, so as responsible citizens we
            should take the path that serves our nation best for the longest period.

          • rbrooks

            since you admit that there are fewer workers today, then it also follows that there will be fewer drawing social security in the future.

            at the moment, the fund receives more in than it pays out. with a bit of investing, and the return of all of the money that the govt has ‘borrowed’ from the fund, it will remain solvent with no additional increase tax ever needed.

            this is simply another of those programs that the fanatics want to make use of, but do not want to pay for.

            putting americans back to work, instead of increasing immigrant labor, would increase the revenue generated as well.

            even capitalists realise there is a need for retirement funding.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Flashman says — “at the moment, the fund receives more in than it pays out”.
            Bullscat.
            http://www.factcheck.org/2011/02/democrats-deny-social-securitys-red-ink/

            “In 2012, Social Security’s cost continued to exceed the program’s tax income and also continued to exceed its non-interest income, a trend that the Trustees project to continue throughout the short-range period (2013-22) and beyond”.
            http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html

          • gelliott

            rbrooks – yes, there will be fewer workers retiring in the
            future which should reduce the burden of pay-out from these funds. However, the real issue is the ratio of workers
            paying into the program to people drawing out of the program, and the amounts
            each is required to pay, or allowed to take out. Right now, and well into the future, the
            ratio is upside down, meaning the fund is now, and will continue paying out
            more cash than it’s taking in. You can
            forget about the “surplus”, “investments”, and “return of all the money the
            government has taken out of the program.”
            The money was not set aside or invested. It
            has been spent, and the only way the government can pay the program back for
            money it took out, is to shift revenues from
            other programs and/or increase revenue (meaning increase taxes). Another way of looking at it is that there
            may come a time in the next few years when the government will tell you that in
            order to get your check, you have to agree to paying a higher tax, probably you
            and your children and grandchildren. They’ve
            already just about eliminated the cost of living adjustment which they
            promised. I predict it will go away
            completely in the next 5 years. Anyway,
            I’m not saying the program was not well intended for all the right reasons, nor
            that folks who have paid into the system for years don’t deserve to get their
            benefit now. I am saying that the program was poorly designed, and now we’re
            going to have to pay the price for that poor design. The framers didn’t anticipate that the ratio
            of people paying into the system to those taking out of the system would actually decline for a
            substantial time, like it is now, so they set it up as a pay-as-you-go (cash
            flow) program rather than a savings & investment program. In the first few years this might have made
            some sense since the program had to pay retirees who hadn’t contributed to the
            program. Over the years, however, it has
            been obvious that this wasn’t going to work so the program should have been updated to
            comprehend the changing demographics.
            Politicians (I won’t name them) refused to allow any changes for their
            own reasons, none of which are, or were, really best for the country. So, we’ll all just have to endure policies
            that our wrong-headed politicians leave us with.

          • rbrooks

            Don’t be confused by the fact that the trust funds are projected to continue growing for several more years. That’s because Treasury must still credit interest payments to the funds on the borrowings from
            earlier years.

            Social Security has passed a tipping point. For years it generated more revenue than it consumed, holding down the overall federal deficit and allowing Congress to spend more freely for other things.

            The imbalance is made even larger this year by a one-year “payroll tax holiday” that was enacted as part of last year’s compromise on extending the Bush tax cuts. The lost Social Security tax revenues are being made up with billions from general revenues that must all be borrowed. <<

            so, we agree that the money was taken from the fund.

            we know that the tax cuts were as detrimental as they were predicted to be.

            the fund takes in more than it pays out. it is the way the fund has been, and is being, handled that is the problem.

            that has been intentional. it allows morons like old comrade davey boy to demand that the program be eliminated. he simply wants to steal the remainder of the money we have paid in.

            the cure is to force govt to return the money to the fund. put americans back to work. and wiser investing.

          • gelliott

            rbrooks – at this point no one is going to eliminate the
            Social Security program. They are simply too popular and ingrained in our society. However, our politicians could have modified it, but have chosen to fight over it for political gain rather than fix it. One of the possible fixes would have been to set aside the money so the money we pay into the program would actually be there when it’s needed, but our politicians decided they wanted it to go into the general fund so they could spend it. So that’s exactly what they did. There is not one dollar in the Treasury with my name on it, so I can’t depend on any of our “honest” politicians following through on their promises to give me the benefits I thought I was paying for over the last several decades. In essence, what I’ve really been paying for was a “gift” to my parents and grandparents so they’d have nice retirements. The promise was that if I did that, the government would give me similar benefits when I retired. I think I’ll probably get most of mine, but I have no confidence that my kids or their kids will get a dime back from the program.

            Today, the government is spending about 40% more than they are taking in tax revenue, so they have to borrow the rest. If they shift (pay back) money to pay out SS benefits, it’ll have to come from other programs or higher taxes, which probably means Medicare, Medicaid, and/or defense because they are the other largest federal programs. The only program that’s considered discretionary in this list is defense. OK, you can take a few hundred billion out of it if you aren’t too worried about Iran, North Korea, Russia, China, or the other terrorists out there, but that still isn’t going to be enough to balance the budget. Also, don’t forget when interest rates go up again, the game is basically over because interest on our debt will be more than all tax revenue. How much longer do you think that’ll be?

            I’m also suggesting that no matter how terrible our
            politicians have been, we really only have ourselves to blame because we’ve allowed, even encouraged, them to do what they’ve done and are doing. We often get caught up in the game of “my team is good” and “your team is bad” so we lose sight of the objective
            facts. I think that’s exactly what we’ve done regarding most of our safety net programs. We all want the benefits from these programs, but if they aren’t
            designed well the dream of benefits may only be a nightmare for future participants.

          • rbrooks

            In essence, what I’ve really been paying for was a “gift” to my parents and grandparents so they’d have nice retirements. <<

            that is partly true

            The promise was that if I did that, the government would give me similar benefits when I retired.<<

            not true. we, my generation, were told that we would have funded ourselves by the time we retired. (at 63. now, my early retirement has been pushed to 62 and my full retirement age is now 66.) that funding, plus the ongoing funding from current workers, would be, would have been, enough to maintain the system.

            the problem has been the use of that funding. when the govt removed the money, and then lowered the percentage being paid in, there was no longer enough left.

            the defense budget is just one small expense.

            foreign aid. the drug interdiction programs. corporate subsidies. etc. that list is rather long.

            i do agree that we are responsible for the current problems.

            the past argument(s) came from what was to be eliminated, what was going to be repaired. and how we would affect those repairs.

            the current philosophy of the fanatics is to simply eliminate any program that aids an american individual. they refuse to discuss the elimination &/or reduction of funding to corporations, farmers, dod, foreign country's, etc.

            it is odd that we have not invested money in foreign country's, rather than just giving them money.

            we could have been drawing 10% plus on rather secure investments.

            instead of borrowing all of that money.

          • rbrooks

            I predict it will go away completely in the next 5 years.<

            really? what is the largest voting bloc in this country.

          • gelliott

            rbrooks – if the seniors voting block is so powerful, why
            haven’t we been able to get COLA’s consistent with the real cost of
            living? Reducing and eventually eliminating
            COLAs was the easy step for politicians to take to reduce SS payments. If they’ll do that, why do you believe they
            won’t take additional steps to further reduce these payments? It sounds like you may trust politicians to
            be competent and/or honest more than I do.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            rbrooks (aka Flashman) is an administration Shill, gelliot.

          • rbrooks

            how many folks do you think will vote if the crooks try to end social security or medicare. how many will be 50+. whom do you think they will support.

            that is a bit different than cola adjustments. tho i would not be surprised to see cola be an issue in the future.

            all politicians are crooks.

            oh yes, i must trust politicians.

          • Karolyn

            I live in a right-to-work state; and there is not work! Isn’t it supposed to bring business into a state? Oh, big deal, Boeing is here (SC). There are places in this state that do not want business to come in because the powers-that-be don’t want to pay labor any more than they have for years, and new large businesses that might move in would be paying higher salaries. “Keep them laborers down!” is their mantra.

          • WTS/JAY

            That’s what happens, Karolyn, when you allow government to meddle in the marketplace by currying favours to crony-capitalists, with the end result being; the creation of monopolies and the elimination of competition. Want more jobs? Get the government out of the marketplace, and watch the job-market explode!

          • rbrooks

            you think there will be an explosion of folks wanting to work those new $1 an hour jobs?

            where will the customers come from?

          • Jana

            Get real!

          • WTS/JAY

            Is that what you’re making under the obama-administration, zombie?

          • Jana

            The idiots (Unions) backed Obama and every liberal candidate they could. Now it is coming back to bite them. Oh boo hoo.

          • rbrooks

            less than 7% of the working force is union.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            That’s the Private Sector workforce, Flashman, and I’m sure you’re well aware of that. The Public Sector has 36% Unionized workers.

          • speedle24

            You think it is funny do you brooks? Do you laugh at airline crashes and terrorist bombings too? Do you think because people “sign up” that they believe it is a good law? You need to get past your third grade logic and liberal talking points and try to use your logic. It might be a good idea to step back and examine where your ideological leaders are taking you.

          • rbrooks

            i do find you fanatics to be amusing. i would equate you at the same level as terrorists. where are your leaders taking you?

          • speedle24

            Name an action of a “tea party fanatic” please.

          • GirlIQ

            You were fed that label by the oba regime talking points fed to the media to feed to you. Nice job parroting the line! Do you also use fabric grocery bags you carry in to the store save the planet? While there have you visited the Hefty trash bag isle? Do you use your little fabric grocery bag to carry out trash can liners you PURCHASED? Someone told libs that using fabric bags will save the planet I laugh every time I see such an obedient minion using these bags. Don’t they think? So if you are told to drive fuel efficient cars and carry fabric grocery bags and you do believing your actions will save the planet; why the of course wouldn’t you believe that Tea Party members are terrorists. After all, that’s what you were told. I bet you also believe that Republicans hate women, gays, want dirty water and pollution. Your polictsl ideology which was fed to you is to hate Republicans ( not liberty-minded Americans) which is what o needs you to do. What do kids on the playground do to get power? They attempt to get others on their side by generating hate of another kid. Besides hating Tea Partiers, what have you been taught to stand for?

          • Nadzieja Batki

            We do find you Dem/Prog/Leftist fanatics to be amusing. We would equate you to the same level as terrorists. Where are your leaders taking you, Dem/Prog/Leftist?

          • WTS/JAY

            I would equate you on the same level as a zombie. Wait a minute, you are a zombie.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            I’ll never sign up for Obama bin Laden Care, neither will my family. If yours does, then they are unamerican. What ever happened to what our Christian founding fathers wanted by having Americans be self reliant, personally responsible, and have the vigilance to ensure that government remains our servants and not our masters? What is wrong with smaller government? You and your ilk are unamerican. Here are 2 articles to look at and you tell me if you fit the criteria.
            http://www.politichicks.tv/column/american-pride-unity/
            http://www.politichicks.tv/column/much-love-america/
            I think you’ll love the 2nd one, for it mentions how God is part of our founding, even in the Constitution. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “The said Constitution should never be construed to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.”
            Samuel Adams
            Signer of the Declaration of Independence
            “Father of the American Revolution”
            Devout Christian

          • WTS/JAY

            Eventually they will steal it all, rbrooks, thanks to dumbbells like you that voted for them.

        • WTS/JAY

          Did you say something, zombie?

          • rbrooks

            will sheehan. lol.

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    Eric Bach asks — “Why are they now supportive of a government/private business hybrid that only a few years ago they would’ve most likely vilified?”.
    Simple Eric. The Leaders never were opposed to the Crony Capitalism. They just gave lip-service to that effect in order to keep the votes coming their way.
    Read “The Big Ripoff” to more fully understand the Crony Capitalism that is rampant in Government:
    http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Ripoff-Business-Government/dp/0471789070/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381760391&sr=8-1&keywords=the+big+ripoff

  • satelliter

    From what I understand, Obamacare is a “law”, right? The “law of the land”, right? Now I always heard everyone is equal under the law. No one is above the law, right? Then just how the hell are so many people exempt from following the “law of the land”? If Obama and congress and their cronies, and so many others aren’t required to “follow the law”, then I’m not required to follow the law either. I (supposedly) have the same rights as any congressman….under the law. What is wrong with you people who believe it’s OK for the citizens to be forced to abide by the laws but career politicians are “excused”?

    • Jana

      Even the Muslims are exempt. They say well it’s against their religion and you wouldn’t want to force them to go against their religion would you?
      Ha, they sure are trying to force Christians to go against our religion all of the time every day.
      We can no longer call Christmas Christmas. It is called Winter Holidays!
      We dare not say WHO the pilgrims were giving Thanks to. By the way it was God. Thanksgiving.
      We are not allowed to pray in private in school.
      We are not allowed to even carry a Bible at school.
      Colleges have Islamic prayer rooms and foot washing rooms.
      Some airports have Islamic foot washing and prayer rooms.
      Catholics hospitals have to pay for birth control and abortions.-no exemptions.

      If this is the law of the land, then all should abide by it!

    • Jana

      Even the Muslims are exempt. They say well it’s against their religion and you wouldn’t want to force them to go against their religion would you?
      Ha, they sure are trying to force Christians to go against our religion all of the time every day.
      We can no longer call Christmas Christmas. It is called Winter Holidays!
      We dare not say WHO the pilgrims were giving Thanks to. By the way it was God. Thanksgiving.
      We are not allowed to pray in private in school.
      We are not allowed to even carry a Bible at school.
      Colleges have Islamic prayer rooms and foot washing rooms.
      Some airports have Islamic foot washing and prayer rooms.
      Catholics hospitals have to pay for birth control and abortions.-no exemptions.

      If this is the law of the land, then all should abide by it!

    • ladagosta

      i agree, if it aint good enough for them.. it isnt good enough for anyone.. boycott.. fair is fair.. equal has no exceptions.repeal or boycott

  • Bill

    Great article, Bob

    You are right on the money. Even prior to Obamacare, out health care system was about creating therapies over cures. Or, in other words, creating better cash flows and having no benefit to your health.

    So now, enter Obamacare. It was created for taxation and power. It will just perpetuate a system destined for failure.

    You have to take control of your own health. The future of good health will be from specialized clinics that accept cash only.

    It is such a shame that we have degraded to the point where the healthcare industry has nothing to do with your good health

    • Nadzieja Batki

      What makes you think that these “specialized clinics” will be allowed to exist by cash only status? In the 30’s the health clinics that were not given approval by AMA or the government were raided and their clinics closed and doctors fined and jailed.

  • WTS/JAY

    UNION CORRUPTION UPDATE.

    Fallen Southern California SEIU Local President Sentenced…

    http://nlpc.org/stories/2013/10/09/fallen-southern-california-seiu-local-president-sentenced

    Teachers Union President in NE Pennsylvania Pleads Guilty…

    http://nlpc.org/stories/2013/10/07/teachers-union-president-ne-pennsylvania-pleads-guilty

    New Jersey Longshoremen Secretary-Treasurer Sentenced for Embezzlement…

    http://nlpc.org/stories/2013/10/08/new-jersey-longshoremen-secretary-treasurer-sentenced-embezzlement

    Transport Workers Local President in Upstate New York Pleads Guilty…

    http://nlpc.org/stories/2013/10/08/transport-workers-local-president-upstate-new-york-pleads-guilty

    Upstate New York IBEW President Pleads Guilty to Filing False Claims…

    http://nlpc.org/stories/2013/10/07/upstate-new-york-ibew-president-pleads-guilty-filing-false-cliams-1

    NE Pennsylvania Teachers Union President Charged; Set to Plead Guilty…

    http://nlpc.org/stories/2013/10/01/ne-pennsylvania-teachers-union-president-charged-set-plead-guilty

    Labor Secretary Nominee Perez Flouts Labor, Immigration Laws…

    http://nlpc.org/stories/2013/03/18/labor-secretary-nominee-perez-flouts-labor-immigration-laws

    Senate Committee Approves Radical Obama NLRB Nominee; Filibuster Likely…

    http://nlpc.org/stories/2010/02/07/obama-labor-board-nominee-highlights-seiu-acorn-ties

    New Orleans-Area Security Professionals President Sentenced…

    http://nlpc.org/stories/2013/09/30/new-orleans-area-security-professionals-president-sentenced

    • Don 2

      Jay,
      You know you might give KG a brain aneurysm with this posting. lol

      • WTS/JAY

        One can only hope!

    • murphyj87

      The former Parliamentary Secretary to Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper is facing charges of election fraud and providing false reports to Elections Canada, which can result in up to $10,000 in fines and imprisonment of up to 5 years, if convicted,

      The RCMP is investigating 5 Conservative Senators for defrauding Canadian taxpayers by filing false expense claims. Two of the Conservative Senators have repaid $96,000 and $146,000 in false claims, but even if a bank robber gives the money back to the bank, they still face charges,as these Conservative Senators will.

      • ladagosta

        the scamming is world wide .. need to recognize these control freaks and get rid of all of them..

    • KG

      So, Enron was a well run company? Goldman Sachs is a honest, trustworthy Company? Dick Cheney was honest in all of his contracts he won for Haliburton? Kellog, Brown and Root won their contracts in Iraq through honest competition? The Stock Market is an egalitarian institution where common everyday people find success?

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Do your handlers know you’re dissing Crony Capitalists, Cagey?

        • rbrooks

          do you ever have an original thought. or do you think you can rely on lies.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Could you speak English, Flashman?

          • rbrooks

            not the liars english that you use.

            like old bob, you make claims you can not prove.

            should call this the personal liars site. you guys need to work on your lies. they are so obvious.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You have no Credibility on this board, rbrooks aka Flashman.

          • WTS/JAY

            aka smilee.

          • JeffH

            Sounds just like something sleepee would say.

            You’re always so brilliant rbrooks…NOT!

          • rbrooks

            sounds just like what unoriginal davey, bob, jay, fake recone, sammyeye, etc. always says.

            it sounds a lot like your brilliant responses jeffy.

          • JeffH

            POLLY WANT A CRACKER? baaarrraaaccckkkkkk!

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            Argument to ridicule. No wonder you have no credibility. Since it is libturds and progturds, like you, that are responsible for the shutdown, here is what your ilk may cost us.
            http://www.cowboybyte.com/25241/debt-stalemate-breeds-frustration-us-heads-toward-dangerous-moment/
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “Were you to ask me to recommend the most valuable book in the world, I should fix on the Bible as the most instructive both to the wise and ignorant.”
            Elias Boudinot

          • WTS/JAY

            Sounds like something a zombie would say. Have you noticed, JeffH, the left, or the walking-dead, as i prefer to call them, cannot muster an original thought?

          • JeffH

            A bunch of pre-programmed repeating parrots…all!

          • WTS/JAY
          • JeffH

            You’re right…I’m still chuckling too!

  • Vis Fac

    ODUMBOCARE explained in ten and a half minutes this site was taken down/blocked several times by liberal hackers Keep in mind this information came out BEFORE ODUMBOCARE was voted in and our so called “people’s Congress did nothing but cop out to go on recess!!!!.

    And if you STILL think this is the ultimate in health care you are not only stupid but terminally stupid!!!!

    Libertas inaestimabilis res est
    Semper-Fi

    • murphyj87

      This is what Americans who have actually USED Canadian health care think of it: (HINT- they prefer it to American insurance run health care)

      • Vis Fac

        A recent “Investor ‘ s Business Daily” article provided very
        interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization.

        Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:
        U.S. 65%
        England 46%
        Canada 42%

        Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received
        treatment within six months:
        U.S. 93%
        England 15%
        Canada 43%

        Percentage of seniors needing hip replacement who received it
        within six months:
        U.S. 90%
        England 15%
        Canada 43%

        Percentage referred to a medical specialist who see one within
        one month:
        U.S. 77%
        England 40%
        Canada 43%

        Number of MRI scanners (a prime diagnostic tool) per million
        people:
        U.S. 71
        England 14
        Canada 18

        Percentage of seniors (65+), with low income, who say they are in “excellent health”:
        U.S. 12%
        England 2%
        Canada 6%

        And now for the last statistic: National Health Insurance?
        U.S. NO
        England YES
        Canada YES

        Check this last set of statistics!! The percentage of each past president ‘ s cabinet who had worked in the private business sector prior to their appointment to the cabinet. You know what the private business sector is; a real-life business, not a
        government job. Here are the percentages.
        T. Roosevelt……………….. 38%
        Taft………………………….. 40%
        Wilson …………………….. 52%
        Harding……………………… 49%
        Coolidge……………………. 48%
        Hoover ……………………… 42%
        F. Roosevelt………………… 50%
        Truman……………………… 50%
        Eisenhower……………. …. 57%
        Kennedy……………………. 30%
        Johnson…………………….. 47%
        Nixon………………………… 53%
        Ford………………………….. 42%
        Carter……………………….. 32%
        Reagan………………………. 56%
        GH Bush…………………….. 51%
        Clinton …………………….. 39%
        GW Bush…………………… 55%
        Obama……………………….. 8%

        This helps to explain the incompetence of this administration:
        only 8% of them have ever worked in private business!

        That’s right! Only eight percent—the least, by far, of the
        last 19 presidents! And these people are trying to tell our big
        corporations how to run their business? If they were real I know why liberals would never fear a zombie apocalypse They have no Brains

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        If your Canadian system is so wonderful, murphy, why do you need to Force people to join?

  • IloveAmerica1

    This is all so scary. Americans need to unite against this president. We are seeing the downfall of the “American Way” we all grew up with. These policies of Obama are all part of the plan to ruin America. When are the people of this country going to wise up?

    • Vigilant

      In 2014.

      • KG

        When the Democrats win back both houses?

        • rbrooks

          the problem that the tea bagger/fanatic idiots have over looked is the real possibility of the democrats winning enough seats to do anything they want.

        • rbrooks

          the problem that the tea bagger/fanatic idiots have over looked is the real possibility of the democrats winning enough seats to do anything they want.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            So is that the purpose of democrats winning, that they get enough seats to do anything they want? Which means being TYRANTS.

          • rbrooks

            what an intelligent and logical response.

          • Jana

            Sure sounded like what you meant!

          • rbrooks

            it was simply what you idiots interpreted it to mean. another typical problem the fanatics have.

          • Jana

            Oh, you cannot write with clarity and we are the idiots. That makes sense how????

          • rbrooks

            the real problem.< what didn't you understand?

            followed by,

            So is that the purpose of democrats winning, that they get enough seats to do anything they want? Which means being TYRANTS. <<

            what is the purpose of republicans winning. to do what the democrats wants?

            you idiots are unable to comprehend that allowing any party to gain complete control is bad.

            i forgot what site i was on. you children need pictures to understand.

          • Jana

            You stated “i forgot what site i was on. you children need pictures to understand. ”
            And still we are the children.???
            Oh wow. I think the problem is you are confused all of the time AND you need a refresher course on communication.

          • WTS/JAY

            rbrooks is brain-dead, Jana. You are arguing with a zombie.

          • Vigilant

            “i forgot what site i was on.”
            That’s an occupational hazard for shills. They post on so many sites they forget. Either that, or you’re an idiot.

          • WTS/JAY

            I agree! Jana is very logical and intelligent!

    • ladagosta

      he is protected like the devil he is.. no one will get to him.. he is a snake slithering in the grass.. good luck with that most of our country agrees with this sentiment but it is not going to happen why do you think 13 people died at the naval base ?? they were going to arrest him.. haha so sad it didnt come to pass..

  • independent thinker

    Sure you can trust the government…………………………………………………………..Just ask an Indian.

    • ladagosta

      i have indian blood in me and I never trusted the government I trust people but the people are deceived soon it will go back to every man for himself..

  • red neck

    Every one needs to understand that the same people that are illegally pushing ( ramming ) obama-care down America’s throat are the same people that believe in “global-warming” yet another massive government take-over of the private sector…

  • red55bird

    On and On it goes till one day people begin to wake up and see, this Communist agenda unfold before them, if you think I was talking about America think again, I was talking about Germany 1937 how one man convince a nation to except National Socialism that lead to the death of 12 million people. This Dictator we call President has put America on the path of Death and Destruction, it’s here now right before your eyes, you can feel it and see it in the faces of Americans that something is very wrong in America, we aloud this to happen because Americans hated George Bush so mush that when Barack Obama came along, he was the All mighty and he could do no wrong, he was going to transform America. But what America did was let a man who’s hole agenda was to bring America to her knees, and now after five years the people see, Obama prize mandate is nothing more then death and destruction for what was ounce the greatest nation on earth.

  • Karolyn

    I’m just glad I’m on Medicare and don’t have to deal with this. I had no health insurance for most of my life – don’t really need it. I have to admit that I did need state aid when diagnosed with hepatitis C, but that was only for a couple of visits to a gastro and a biopsy. (I paid taxes my whole life and am not ashamed.) I decided to change my life and live healthier. People need to take charge of their own bodies. The internet is the biggest boon to healthcare with the wealth of health information it holds.
    As far as doctors go, we have the greatest nonprofit medical facility here with 5 branches that charges on a sliding scale. People at or below the poverty line pay a flat $20 fee for any services they might incur on any given day. I just wonder why there can’t be more of that? It seems to work because they’ve been in business for about 10 years. We also have a free clinic started by a couple of people that is growing. I do live in a lower socio-economic area; so these services are essential. They also have a mobile dental clinic for kids.

    • ladagosta

      yes and in 18 months when the funding to back this is GONE>. what happens then?? i am on it as well same thing but there is still a future of nothing just around the corner as they spent all the money that was supposed to be secured for us when we got older.. spent it .. i tell you it is gone.. it was never invested it paid for everything but what it was supposed to pay for .. the greed in the country is the damnation of us nothing more.. spending out of control like there is no tomorrow is what is giving us no tomorrow… silly humans..

    • JeffH

      K, one way or another Obamacare will have a negative effect on your Medicare coverage and costs. I have my Medicare coverage through Aetna Medicare and I have already recieved my notice of changes for 2014…the most significant is my “out of pocket” maximum which ~doubled~ from $3400 to $6700. I understand that there will always be minor changes and tweaks but this increase is significant and a major increase.

      • Karolyn

        I’m on bare bones, just A&B and would not have taken B if I had a choice (or do I have them confused?). I do not go to the doctor other than once a year for labs.

      • rbrooks

        i heard that deductibles were going to be $10,000 per month and the premiums were going to triple every day.

        in 2014 they are going to end food stamps.

        in 2015 they are going to eliminate medicare.

        in 2016 they are going to eliminate social security.

        • JeffH

          I saw with my own two eyes that you’re an ignorant progressive shill too!

  • Sam

    I think the author is going overboard on his negative description of healthcare in America. I worked in hospitals many years and the number one reason people died was because they were old and sick and could not fight off the elements anymore. The average life span in 1927 was 47 years old. I find it hard to believe that the nation’s hospitals are doing things to people to make them die early. This is tripe. Of course, we could always do better, and I see hospitals working towards that goal every day. It’s not perfect because we are not perfect and will never be. The best healthcare begins with the individual through education and good self care.

    • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Sam,

      You suffer from cognitive dissonance and have been brainwashed by the medical establishment. But you are not alone.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • KG

        If you say so, Guru Bob.

    • TheOriginalDaveH
      • murphyj87

        Canada has more medical research and more medical discoveries per capita than the United States does.

        http://www.canadianmedicinenews.com/2007/11/canadas-greatest-medical-research.html

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          If your Healthcare system is so great, murphy, why do you need to Force people to join?

          • rbrooks

            got any stats that show canadians do not want to be a part of that system? all of the ones i worked with up in canada thought it was a great system.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Don’t need any, Flashman. If they all wanted to be, there would have been no need for Government Force.

          • rbrooks

            as usual, you just make it up.

          • murphyj87

            If Canadians didn’t want to be part of Canadian health care exactly as it is, we would elect a government to change it. No such government has ever been elected to do that since single payer began nationwide in Canada in 1966. Canadians continue to elect governments with a platform to leave Canadian health care exactly as it is, including Conservative governments.

            Canadian CONSERVATIVES are pro choice, favour same sex marriage, favour universal single payer health care, favour strong banking corporate and finacial regulation (strong regulation is why Canada was the last industrialized nation to go into recession and the first industrialized naion to come out of recession), favour strong gun laws with strict background checks, and oppose the death penalty, AND THOSE ARE CANADIAN CONSERVATIVES (who were elected with 39% of the vote in 2011, while 61% if Canadians voted for one of the four major parties to the left of Conservatives). ,

            Canadians who didn’t want to be a part of Canadian health care, could move to the United States. Very few Canadians do that, but many Americans move to Canada mainly to have better health care than they have in the United States.

            The vast najority of Americans who have used Canadian health care prefer it to what they had in the United States.

          • rbrooks

            i used it twice. thought it was just fine.

            the fanatics on this site, and their tea bagger cousins, are not really against health care. they just want someone else to pay for it.

            it is the same philosophy they have about all of govt.

          • Don 2

            rbrooks, Tea Party people have no problem paying for their own healthcare. They just don’t want to pay for healthcare for slugs and bottom feeders.

          • rbrooks

            does that mean that palin, cruz, ryan, etc., will now be paying for their health care. or will the taxpayers continue to fund it.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Where is that stated in your article, murphy?

          • murphyj87

            When it says that Canada has a disproportionally high number of medical discoveries, that meains INCLUDING WHEN COMPARED TO THE UNITED STATES.

          • rbrooks

            comrade unoriginal frank has a reading disability. as well as multiple id syndrome.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You must have very long arms, murphy.

    • murphyj87

      Currently, right now:

      The average life span of an American male with insurance run health care is 76 years .

      The average life span of a Canadian male with Canadian health care is 80 years

      The average life span of an American female with insurance run health care is 81 years .

      The average life span of a Canadian female with Canadian health care is 84 years

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        There are numerous factors which influence longevity, murphy.
        Your conclusion is meaningless.

        • rbrooks

          your conclusions are always meaningless.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Your comments are always useless.

          • rbrooks

            any comment would be useless to you. you are just a parrot.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            To call you a nit-wit would be an insult to lice.

          • rbrooks

            it would if you knew what any of that is.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Thank you rbrooks aka Flashman for all your insightful comments. I’m sure the readers are learning a lot about Liberal Progressives from you.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            Sheesh! Just shut up. No wonder you libturds and progturds get no respect. Just look at what you have been posting. Nothing but a buch of drivile. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

          • rbrooks

            get back on the boat. you are nothing more than a coward who came here with his hand out.

            now you try to substantiate your existence with a pretentious definition of patriot.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            I’ve never had my hand out, but you have. I believe in earning my keep, unlike you, who wants things for free. Very unamerican of you. Ooops! I forgot that you live in Canada. Here are 2 articles about Obama bin Laden, national parks, and the U.N.
            http://www.therealside.com/blog/Mr-President-Enough-With-the-Lies-the-Fear-and-the-Spin
            http://www.victoriajackson.com/9887/fact-united-nations-control-u-s-national-parks
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “We all fully and at once understand what is good behavior in a judge…and if he acts contrary, it would be misbehavior and the Constitution in that case has given a remedy by impeachment.”
            John Calhoun
            1st Judicial Review Act

          • rbrooks

            a typical response from a boat refugee. lies and more lies. fairly typical of the fanatics on this site.

            are you still on the refugee program?

            tell us why you were too scared to fight for the last country you lived in.

        • murphyj87

          Except that no Canadian ever dies because they are denied the health care they need in Canada, while 45,000 Americans die EACH YEAR because they are denied the health care they need by the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between Americans and the health care they need.

          Since Canada has had universal single payer health care, beginning in 1966, no Canadian has died because they couldn’t get the health care they need in Canada, while 2.1 MILLION Americans have died because they were denied the health care they need by the insurance company bureaucrat who stands between Americans and the health care they need.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Emergency rooms are required by law to accept all comers.
            “The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act requires hospitals to provide treatment in life-threatening emergencies and when patients are in active labor, even if the patients have no insurance and even if they have no ability to pay for treatment”.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

            Methinks you are propagating yet another lie, murphy.

          • rbrooks

            you do not have the ability to think.

            if one does not have insurance then they are relegated to a hospital and will only be treated if it is an emergency.

            the obvious problems with that system is simply more than you can comprehend.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Such cognizance. I think you’ve convinced me, rbrooks aka Flashman. Maybe they will even give me a multiple personality so I can be like you.

            Flashman says — “the obvious problems with that system is simply more than you can comprehend”.
            Do you mean like people would have to pay for their own care instead of riding on somebody else’s shoulders? What would you do without your servants, Flashman?

          • Jana

            Just like over the weekend here in Texas and several other states, LA being one of them the scanner for the food stamp card quit working in these states for 4 hours. Word spread fast that the food and items were not scanning and it was free to the recipients. The Walmart shelves were wiped almost clean in Louisianna. People were taking advantage of the situation. Then when all of a sudden it came back on there were abandoned baskets full of items all over the store.
            So much for honor among beggars.

          • murphyj87

            Emergency room treatment is not proper health care. If the 125 million Americans who are denied access to a regular doctor, which all Canadians are guaranteed, go to an ER and have something more serious than a bandage or few stitches can’t fix, they are sent home to die.

            While people without insurance in the US can go to an ER, noone without insurance, or who can pay in full out of pocket, can be admitted to a hospital for medical treatment beyond the ER.

            All Canadians can see a family/personal physician whenever they feel they need to WITH NO OUT OF POCKET COST. , and all Canadians can receive whatever treatment a doctor says they need IN A HOSPITAL and WITH NO OUT OF POCKET COST.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            It’s funny how you Liberal Progressives will never answer a tough question, murphy.
            If your system is so wonderful, why must your Government Force it on the citizens?
            And who cares if it’s out-of-pocket directly, or it comes out later (in a higher quantity)?
            Your per capita GDP is $7000 lower than the US per capita GDP. Since your medical costs are $3500 cheaper, you have a net overall loss of $3500 per capita. I know misery loves company, murphy, but we don’t love misery.

          • murphyj87

            Canadian health care is not FORCED on Canadians. Canadians choose to elect a government that will continue Canadian health care exactly as it is and has been since 1966. If Canadians hated Canadian health care (as you are deceived into believing) andif Canadians thought we were FORCED into it, we would elect a government with a platform to change it. No such government has ever been elected, and no Canadian plotical party has even ever had such a platform. Canadians CHOOSE to have no other system but single payer at the ballot box, each and every election since 1966.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Give me a break, murphy. You’re not talking to one of your dumbed-down fellow Liberal Progressives. Government is Force. When Government issues a law — That is FORCE.
            I don’t care how many of you vote, you still have no legitimate right to Force others to do things your way.
            I imagine even you would balk if three friends decided to vote to take your house, even if they let you have a vote. Yet you somehow think there’s a magical number of voters at which point FORCE becomes CHOOSING. There isn’t, murphy. When you Force your way on others using Government as your Proxy Forcer, you are no more moral than a rapist. Sure, you can get away with it, because there are numerous Greedy people who believe, like you, that they can help themselves to other people’s money and choices by virtue of having the larger Gang. But then, Thieves and Rapists often get away with their crimes also.

          • Karolyn

            I was just told by a woman here in SC that in her county the local hospital has been denying treatment to people without insurance. I could not believe it, but she says she has see it happen.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            More power to them. Where did Liberal Progressives ever get the idea that anybody owes them Free Health Care? There are many things more immediately life-threatening then Healthcare, such as Shelter, Clothing, Food. Without any of those three, you wouldn’t last long. So what do we do, just let everybody ride on other people’s unwilling backs? That used to be called Slavery, but I imagine that even then the Slave Owners had similar rationalizations as to why they had a right to enslave other humans.

          • WTS/JAY

            Sources please!

          • MontieR

            Of course they did not die they were smart enough to come to America to get the treatment they could NOT get in Canada. Even the Canadian prime minister came over to get treatment in America. Because he would have had to wait months or years to get the same treatment in Canada.

          • murphyj87

            That is absolutely false. All Canadians get whatever health care we need IN CANADA, and fewer than 3% of Canadians would ever even consider going to the US for your inferior insurance run health care.

            The stream across the border for medical care is FROM THE UNITED STATES TO CANADA.

            For every Canadian who goes to the US for medical care, over 750 Americans come to Canada for medical care they are denied by the insurance company bureaucrat who stands.between Americans and the health car they need ans who deny most Americans that care.

            It is Americans, not Canadians, who are unable to get proper health care in their own country. The main reason that some Canadians have to wait a few days to a week for elective surgery is the number of Americans clogging Canadian hospitals. to get the me4dicalk treatment they can;t get in the United States.

          • WTS/JAY

            Canadian Death Panel Decides Baby Should Die, Canadian Court Agrees…

            One of the problems with single payer is the government can decide to stop paying because some “death panel” declared the patient’s life not worth the money required to keep them alive.

            For example, a panel in Canada’s health care system has decided to remove a baby from life support, despite the parents protestations. The parents when to court. The court found in favor of the government.

            So now, rather than die at home, with loved ones surrounding him, baby Joseph Maraachli will die at the hospital, at the hands of the Canadian health care system:

            The father and relatives of one-year-old Joseph Maraachli wept outside a London courthouse after an emotional Justice Helen Rady upheld the earlier decision of an independent provincial tribunal forcing the baby’s parents to comply with doctors’ orders.

            With all of their legal avenues exhausted, the family will have to say goodbye to Joseph Monday morning — on Family Day — when his breathing tube will be removed.

            “I do my best for my baby. My son is not a criminal . . . to just let him die,” dad Moe Maraachli said through tears.

            “They are taking my baby away from me . . . Where is the humanity?”

            He said he didn’t know how to break the news to his wife Sana Nader, who was too upset to sit through the day’s court proceedings, or explain to their seven-year-old son Ali what’s going to happen to his little brother.

            The parents have accepted the inevitable death of Joseph, and asked the hospital to perform a tracheotomy “which would open up a direct airway through an incision in Joseph’s trachea and make it possible to bring the baby home” to die.

            The hospital refused because that might lead to an infection, which could kill him.

            http://www.rightwingnews.com/health/canadian-death-panel-decides-baby-should-die-canadian-court-agrees/

          • murphyj87

            What you fail to mention is that the baby WAS ALREADY BRAIN DEAD and was examined by 6 world renowned neuologists to confirm that the baby was BRAIN DEAD. Maybe Americans don;t mind spending mony to operate on a dead baby, but Canadians have more respect for the dead than to mutilate their bodies with unecessary surgery that clearly can’t revive the dead.

            Baby Joseph had a fatal neurological coindition and was already brain dead long before Americans decided to mutilate his dead body.and waste money with surgery on an ALREADY DEAD BABY…

          • WTS/JAY

            The point of the article, murphy, is that, in the world of single payer health care, it is the lawyers that decide what is in your child’s best interest, not you. It is the lawyers that decide the treatment your child gets, and whether your child gets to live, or die.

            Btw, after Canadian doctors refused to perform a tracheotomy, calling the procedure invasive and futile, Joseph’s parents fought to have him transferred to the United States, arguing that while Joseph’s disease was terminal, a tracheotomy would extend his life and allow him to die at home. After several months and efforts by American pro-life groups, Joseph was transferred to a Catholic hospital in St. Louis, Missouri, where the procedure was performed.The successfully-obtained procedure extended Joseph’s life for several months. Joseph died on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 at his home.

            Strange, isn’t it, murphy, that the parents had to go all the way to the U.S. to find the compassion that was withheld from them, in Canada, of all places!

          • TheOriginalDaveH
      • rbrooks

        you gave the life span of the average american white male and female.

        a black male has an average life span of 70
        a black female is 76.

    • MontieR

      Simply put you are wrong. I visited the emergency ward at our local hospital and on the counter was a MRSA pamphlet. MRSA is a contact virus that is extremely drug resistant. Now when housekeeping came into the room they moved the pamphlet cleaned underneath and set the pamphlet back down. Secondly with the out of control insurance industry backed up by the bar association the medical professionals are forced to do unnecessary procedures for diagnosis to cover their behinds and blunder care will triple the cost of these procedures. Instead of tort reform a REASONABLE fix, they created a monstrosity designed to confuse and create more problems and cost thousands of times what it should cost. Aside from this law being illegally passed and violating at least 5 parts of the constitution it is morally wrong to steal insurance premiums from some to pay for someone elses premium. And yes forcing anyone to by insurance under penalty of law is extortion. Fix the problem by fixing the problem NOT by creating 100s more problems.

      • Stuart Shepherd

        MontieR- as a doctor, I couldn’t agree with you more (except that MRSA is a bacteria, not a virus, but that is irrelevant to the truth ofwhat you wrote)

  • JeffH

    Whatever the government funds with our tax dollars, the government controls.

    How do the Elite win? They LIE. They twist and turn words. The same words have different meanings to different groups. They will use a few simple techniques that they have used throughout time. They will create a crisis, people will scream, people will give up freedom for security. Doublespeak is their code.

    Usually their words mean the opposite of what they say. Doublespeak is the greatest tool of all used by the controlling Communists/Progressives/Liberals/Socialists/Fascists/Marxists shaping the downfall of our Constitutional Republic.

    EMPOWER THEM WITH THE TRUTH…Bob Livingston has laid out more truth in just these two statements:

    1. “Obamacare is a socialist death trap of graft and corruption. It was created by lobbyists for the medical industrial complex as a way of growing its consumer base with the guarantee of benefit payments from the Federal Treasury. It’s a redistributive system that steals from the producers in order to feed the corporatocracy.”

    2. “Nothing about Obamacare is healthcare. It is simply medical tyranny created under the guise of political doublespeak. It sounds great to promise free or low-cost health insurance for everyone until people begin to learn the true cost of “free” government programs.”

    Whether or not any of you agree, our representative government does not represent “we the people” but instead choose lies, graft, power, greed, corruption, treason, anti-Constitution terrorism as an alternative form of governance which is a government “of the government, by the government, and for the government.”

    • murphyj87

      American medical insurance is all about power and profit. American insurance companies are willing to kill 45,000 Americans each year to increase profit by denying Americans the health care they would have and be guaranteed if they were Canadians.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Good Grief, enough with the 45,000 lie, murphy.
        You’re getting very annoying.

      • JeffH

        I’ll not argue the cronyism of American Medical Insurance profiting nor will I compare it to the current cronyism of Obamacare. Unfortunately the government cronies aren’t interested in reforming the US health care system but they are interested in enriching themselves, Big Pharma, their industry crony partners…with the monies taken off the backs of the American people.
        ________________________________________
        According to Canadian Dimension Magazine, some 40,000 deaths are caused annually due to errors in the Canadian health care delivery system, in other words, due to medical malpractice. The author of the subject article, William Charney, estimates that the actual statistics of medical malpractice in the country are probably much higher because of a lack of reporting of such instances. However, he also notes that litigation for medical malpractice in Canada doesn’t even come close to helping those injured by doctor and hospital errors.

        Canadian hospitals may be manipulating death rates, new study suggests

        It was a rare bit of good news about Canada’s health-care system: In the few short years since a federal agency began publishing hospital death rates, the mortality numbers had decreased significantly.

        A new study, however, concludes that at least some of that improvement was achieved not by better caring for patients, but by manipulating internal statistics.
        http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/13/canadian-hospitals-may-be-manipulating-death-rates-new-study-suggests/

  • speedle24

    You are absolutely correct Bob Livingston. The goals of the creators of the ACA have very little to do with healthcare, and everything to do with seizing economic power. This is the way to control political fortunes. You simply use the carrot or the whip to either bribe or extort the electorate. If the useful idiots would bother to notice this is the one consistent thread that runs through every single Obama/Reid initiative. The ACA is most important to them in this regard as evidenced by their maniacal resolve to not give an inch (even on delaying the obvious injustice of the individual mandate). In fact it is so important they are risking voter backlash to hold fast. Even useful idiots can figure out this is not in their best interests. We shall see.

    • murphyj87

      It is American insurance that has absolutely nothing to do with health care. American insurance is all abot maximizing profit ven if it means killing tens of thousands of Americans EACH YEAR as collateral damage to increase profit

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Nobody has to buy that Insurance, murphy. Or at least they didn’t until Obamacare came along.
        Again with the killing lies. You’re no better than a rapist, murphy, by Forcing people to do things they don’t want to do.

      • speedle24

        You are correct Murphy. Insurance has absolutely nothing to do with health care. Neither does the government. Healthcare is between the patient and provider of health services. Insurance is merely a way to finance the risk of the need for excessive healthcare. And yes, insurance companies are the best at assessing risk and making a profit from it. There is no cronyism or special treatment for political favors, just plain old American profit motive. That’s what built the greatest economy in the history of the world. I love it.
        Collateral damage to increase profit??? You sir are a moron.

      • http://batman-news.com samurai

        Argument to ridicule. Isn’t there any intellectual material you can post? Here is an article about one reason why young people do not want Obama bin Laden Care.
        http://www.politicaloutcast.com/2013/10/young-opt-obamacare-cant-afford-health-care-rich-grandparents/
        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
        You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
        “A share in the sovereignty of the state, which is exercised by the citizens at large, in voting at elections is one of the most important rights of the subject, and in a republic ought to stand foremost in the estimation of the law.”
        Alexander Hamilton

  • WTS/JAY

    The Most Despicable President In The Nation’s History Is Barack Hussein…!!!Disgraceful

    Secretary of Defense Hagel was following orders from the “Spite” House to make a shutdown just as painful as possible to the American public, and to Military families especially. Unlawful furloughs and cutting off military benefits has been the Administration’s plan since day one.

    Hagel, instead of being a patriot, sided with the progressive extremists and shuttered as much of the military as he could in an act of political calculation.

    It was Obama’s and Hegel’s decision to halt death benefits for the families of troops killed in action. This is disgraceful and was done for purely political reasons. Anyone who could put politics before the well-being of the troops is unfit for command and needs to be removed in the most humiliating manner known to man.

    Families of fallen warriors have been denied standard financial assistance to travel to Dover AFB to claim the remains of their loved ones. What sort of calculating, vindictive, political thug could even imagine such a cold-hearted, politically inspired statement at such a time?!

    Thanks to the Fisher House Foundation the families will get the help they need during their time of sorrow. God bless the private sector for providing the assistance Barack Hussein has refused the families of the dead.

    Fisher House:

    The Fisher House Foundation came forward and will provide benefits to the families of the fallen heroes. Ignoring politics and doing what is right for American troops and their families, the charity will provide all of the assistance to the grieving families, assistance usually given freely by the federal government!

    Since 1990, the Fisher House foundation has provided “a home away from home” for families of Vets receiving medical care at major military and VA medical centers. The not-for-profit organization supports existing Fisher Houses and helps individual military families in time of need. A grateful nation should always remember those who unselfishly help the troops and their families when they need it most.

    Fixing it.

    The House of Representatives voted unanimously to restore the $100,000 death benefit to fallen soldiers in an attempt to force the Administration to obey the law. Like him or not, Speaker John Boehner has been working overtime to untangle the mess being created by the Chicago community organizer and his political terrorists. Obama suggested that the matter be passed off to lawyers for review so that ways might be found to restore the payments. Of course, this is “Inside the Beltway” code for doing NOTHING. This is one thing he could easily do with an executive order, but he won’t.

    After all, why should Obama worry? The DC Military golf courses are still open!

    Read more at: http://www.westernjournalism.com/despicable-president-nations-history-barack-hussein/#BPg4CHeLOiAPVtcz.99

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      True that! True that! Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. No quarter! We all know that the libturds and progturds have turned our schools into something other than for education. I should know as I work in one. Here is an article about a school play, a goat, and sex. What will these fool libturds and progturds think of next.
      http://www.politicaloutcast.com/high-school-play-portrays-sex-goat/
      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation, to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”
      John Jay

  • Dawn Garland

    obamacare SUCKS!

    • murphyj87

      Insurance run health care (with an insurance company bureaucrat standing between Americans and the health care they need, with that insurance company bureaucrat denying and rationing the health care of Americans for profit) is what SUCKS.

      Ask virtually any Canadian, WE chose Canadian government funded physician run health care, as we have in Canada, over American insurance run health care anytime, and in any circumstances.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        If it’s so wonderful, murphy, why must people be Forced to participate?
        Why do Canadians have to give up $7000 a year in GDP to have your wonderful Forced system of Healthcare?

        • murphyj87

          Canadians have $7000 in our pockets that Americans wast on overpiced American health care. Canadians all use Canadian single payer health care because Canadians CHOOSE TO HAVE only universal single payer health care, beause.it means that ALL Canadians have the freedom to have access to whatever health care we need.

          American so called “choice” means that most Americans have inferior health care compared to what even the poorest Canadian has, since there is only ONE standard of care in Canada, EXCELLENT care compared to the inferior health care most Americans are FORCED and have NO CHOICE but to have.

          Americans know as much about freedom, choice, and liberty as an elephant knows about skydiving.

          Canadians have far more freedom,choice, and liberty than Americans have EVER had.

          Having universal single payer health care gives Canadians the freedom to have whatever health care we need, regardless of income, and the poorest Canadian has exactly the same health care as the richest Canadian, EXCELLENT HEALTH CARE..

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You know, murphy, I already put that lie to rest earlier. The US spends $3500 more than Canada on Healthcare per capita. But the US has $7000 more GDP per capita than Canada. So where is that extra $3500 going, numbnuts? It looks to me like your Socialism is costing you $3500 extra per person. I certainly wouldn’t be beating my chest about that, murphy. But then, I’m not a brain-dead Liberal Progressive.

          • WTS/JAY

            The basics of a capitalist system is that it encourages competition which is what brings any market into equilibrium (supply=demand). There is not a shortage of doctors or equipment in the US, murphy. You rarely hear that people in the United States can’t find a doctor, instead you hear that they can’t afford a doctor.

            In Canada, even those who can afford a doctor can’t find one and that is because there is no competition in the marketplace because it is all government run.

            What do you think the government is going to do? Establish a costly system that meets the needs of all citizens, or, establish the cheapest system that covers only the basic needs of citizens?

            Canadian specialized care is a joke and that is why your system will not last!!!

            I know that if my wife were to have complications with her pregnancy she would receive the care she needs right away because our insurance covers all specialized care surrounding a pregnancy. Do you?

          • WTS/JAY

            murphy says: Having universal single payer health care gives Canadians the freedom to have whatever health care we need, regardless of income, and the poorest Canadian has exactly the same health care as the richest Canadian, EXCELLENT HEALTH CARE..

            Hey murphy, i don’t think this canadian would agree with your statement.

            “I have social anxiety/depression and currently taking Effexor 225mg daily but it has stopped working for me and my anxiety and depression have gotten worse.

            The therapist I saw before doesn’t want to see me anymore, of course, and referred me to see another therapist, but there is a long waiting list. I have been waiting for about 4 months now and fighting to have someone help me.

            Last week I went to the emergency cause I couldn’t bare it anymore and they told me they couldn’t do anything and that I have to wait my turn because there is such a huge waiting list in the area but will fax them to try to have them rush me faster.

            I called them again today, to see if they got the fax from emergency and the therapist is on vacation till Nov 10!! Can you believe this ****?!?!? What am I suppose to do? No one wants to help me with my anxiety and I need help. Any advice”?

            Yeah, murphy, do you have any advice for your fellow canadian, besides telling him what a WONDERFUL and EXCELLENT HEALTHCARE SYSTEM you Canucks enjoy? ROFLMAO!!!

            Here’s the response he got from another canadian who loves the system as much as you do, murphy.

            “Sadly, I can believe it. I live in Canada also and I agree, our health care system is a joke. I had to wait 8 months before I got an appointment for an initial appointment with a psychiatrist. Even my family doctor told me that waiting 8 months was unacceptable. But if you really want help, and if you can’t wait until November 10th. Go to the hospital emergency room and tell them that you’re suicidal and that you plan on killing yourself. Tell them that you need someone to talk to and there’s a wait, and that you can’t wait anymore. And that it is unbearable. And trust me, you’ll see a doctor right away and they’ll offer you all kinds of services.

            I went to the emergency last Tuesday and there was a wait of about 10 hours and when I saw the nurse, I told her I had all my pills on me and ready to kill myself and I saw a doctor about 10 minutes later. And they gave me ressources and follow up appointments.

            Some healthcare system, hey murph? Oh yeah, i want me some of that, NOT!!!!

            Btw, here’s the source: http://www.freemedicaljokes.com/why-is-canadas-health-care-system-such-a-joke-please-help/

          • Jana

            What does Murphy care, he has good insurance and good health care and he just loves Canada and hates the United Sates. (With great emphasis on Loves)

  • angelwannabe

    Well Bam Bam Care can’t access empty bank accounts or a barter system_they can get bent!

  • ibn isha

    It is human nature to protect one’s interest as such they sometimes collaborate with government to profit or protect their interest. Take government out and everything falls in place. Nobody can force anybody to buy his crap no matter how much money he has but government CAN. Therefore, take government out of the equation if you do not want forced to do or not do anything. Corporations and rich people cannot elect anybody into office no matter how much they try for they only make a small part of our population. It is up to the rest of the people to elect honest people to office. They have the votes. But this vast majority of voters elect and reelect corrupt people to office in return for freebies. Of course freebies come with strings attached. They have to give up their liberties. But apparently not many in this nation care about liberties. These politicians don’t care about the poor or the rich either. They just want power no matter how they get it.

    Furthermore, people are not taking care of their healths. We have given this responsibility to government because we are too lazy to do it ourselves. We are an instant gratification nation and when we are sick we want to get healthy fast. As such we forgo natural remedies and go for fast healing medicines which have side effects. Sometimes the side effects are more dangerous than the original illness. In my 50 years life I have never been to a doctor. I don’t give too much attention to common aches and pains and cold and flu. I always use natural remedies. I will try to stay away from doctors and allopathic medication as long as I can.

    If we keep electing corrupt politicians to office and keep buying crap from pharmaceutical companies they will keep selling it to us. Don’t blame them. They are selling what you want to buy. If you are not your own best friend then nobody is.

  • vicki

    For Murphyj87, PR, KG et all.

    “but “[she] didn’t expect to be the one paying for it personally.”

    Now doesn’t that sound just like progressives everywhere.

    http://www.teaparty.org/liberals-in-state-of-shock-as-they-realize-free-health-care-was-another-obama-fairy-tale-29394/

    Now that the “useful idiots” have found who is being thrown under the bus…..

    • rbrooks

      you left out the will sheehan story.

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. No quarter! Never fear, the Samurai is here to stand next to you and cover you from the likes of rbrooks. One of the many menaces on this site. I have found this about the Constitution and how to teach it to libturds and progturds.
      http://www.westernjournalism.com/constitution-101-progressives/
      I hope this helps some of them learn. Ooops! A libturd/progturd learn? What was I thinking? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “The elective franchise, if guarded as the ark of our safety, will peaceably dissipate all combinations to subvert a Constitution, dictated by the wisdom, and resting on the will of the people.”
      Thomas Jefferson
      Signer of the Declaration of Independence
      3rd President of the U.S.
      Orthodox Christian

  • Patriot_Dave

    The ACA’s roots were in the Heritage Foundations sponsored Health Care report from as far back as 1989… Mitt Romney even used an updated version to offer Mass residents their universal health care program….. Even with all of these facts about where it came from and by whom there is still this troubling FACT… “America’s healthcare system is a profit-driven, disease-oriented death system. It is a system of conflict of interest, tainted research, greed for money, deceived and pretentious doctors and scientists, lying, cheating, invasion by the morally bankrupt marketing automatons of the drug industry, greedy power-hungry politicians (NOT just Dems either!!), and Federal and State regulators. It is all about money generated on the sick and the dying.
    The sick care industry is not only profiting from the sick and dying; it is the greatest cause of sickness and premature death. And it is a U.S. government industry. It is sponsored and financed by the U.S. government. There would not be a single hospital in the United States without Federal funny money and the insurance business.”
    What we needed was was REFORM….. What we got was a promise from the federal government that EVERYBODY had to buy Health Insurance!!! Which in theory would drive the average cost of healthcare down. HooRah for the Health Ins companies? BUT Wait…there is still this…. The Pharmaceutical industry is not about ‘healing’ people it’s about customers!!!!…And repeat customers at that!!!!….

  • WTS/JAY

    Canada is Privatizing Health Care…

    Ironically, as the U.S. is on the verge of rushing toward government health care, Canada is reforming its system in the opposite direction…… According to the New York Times, a private clinic opens at a rate of about one a week across the country.

    Public-private partnerships, once a taboo topic, are embraced by provincial governments.-

    See more at: http://healthblog.ncpa.org/canada-is-privatizing-health-care/#sthash.XVLQDPTc.dpuf

    • murphyj87

      Over 90% of Canadians refuse any privatization of health care in Canada. The privaitzed health care in Cabada is not aimed at Canadians (who universally refuse to use it) but at
      the two million Americans who stream across the border to get medical treatment in Canada.

      • Jana

        And we are supposed to believe this because you say so???

        • murphyj87

          Because over 90% of Canadians say so.

          You should believe almost all Canadians, not American insurance company propaganda like that garbage.

          • Jana

            Sure.

          • murphyj87

            It may be Fraser Instiute garbage. The Fraser Instiute is an ultra right wing Canadian think tank funded by the Koch brothers and the American insurance industry, who wevave fiction out of whole cloth, but which Americans are so naive and stupid as to believe.

            Canadians know better than to believe a word from the Fraser Instiute, but Americans never do any research and take any fitictious right wing propaganda as fact..

            If Americans did any research, they would know that while Shona Holmes said she had “brain tumour” and cou;dnlt get surgery in Canada, Shona Holmes DOCTORS. (including her American doctors at the Mayo Clinic in Phoenix) testified under oath in an Ontario court that Shona Holm,es NEVER HAD the brain tumour she said she had, but she actually had a Radke’s Cleft Cyst (a non life threatening benign cyst) and Shona Holmes DOCTORS (including her American doctors at the Mayo Clinic in Phoenix) also testified that she could have had surgery in Ontario within 3 weeks of diagnosis, whereas she had to wait 6 weeks afyer daignosis to have surgery at yhe Mayo Clinic in Phoenix.

            Americans believe propaganda and fiction. Canadians believe research and facts

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Anybody who doesn’t conform to your Liberal Progressive enslavement is a Right Winger and funded by the Koch Brothers.
            I’ll tell you what is garbage, murphy — Your comments.
            How convenient that you can launch argumentum ad hominem against your opponents instead of debating their specific points. What else could we expect from the closed minds of Liberal Progressives?

          • WTS/JAY

            What else could we expect from the closed minds of Liberal Progressives? Why only more, argumentum ad hominem against their opponents instead of debating their specific points. What else?

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. No quarter! Can’t expect anything from them but lies, innuendo, rhetoric, and hate. They tend to be desperate closed minded individuals. But alas! We already know this. Here are some articles about Obama bin Laden, his administration, and other things.
            http://www.westernjournalism.com/allen-west-obama-acting-like-spoiled-brat/
            http://www.westernjournalism.com/bachmann-obama-close-dictatorship-puts-impeachment-table/
            http://www.minutemannews.com/2013/10/t2sda-support-elected-officials-care-country/
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
            “Should things go wrong at any time, the people will set them to rights by the peaceable exercise of their elective rights.”
            Thomas Jefferson
            Signer of the Declaration of Independence
            3rd President of the U.S.
            Orthodox Christian

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            So the 10% have your Nationalized Healthcare Law rammed down their throats whether they like it or not?
            You would have made a great Feudal Lord, murphy.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            Lies! Lies! Lies! Care to cite a source? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

        • http://batman-news.com samurai

          Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. No quarter! You know that is how it always is with these libturds and progturds. They want you to trust them, but remember what Jesus said about sending us out as sheep among wolves. They are the wolves. Here is an article that tells how Christians can get out of Obama bin Laden Care. Tell your friends and others on this site.
          http://www.americanvision.org/9564/get-obamacare/#sthash.2JYvP6o9.KKli92Sk.dpbs
          FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
          You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
          “When the righteous rule, the people rejoice; when the wicked rule, the people groan (Proverbs 29:2).”
          William Patterson
          Supreme Court Justice

          • Jana

            Great one. I will share this one. I and many of my friends are interested. Woo hoo.!!!!

      • WTS/JAY

        That’s funny, 90% of Americans don’t want Obama-death-care, but guess what? They are still going to get it! And do you know why? Because, it doesn’t matter what the majority wants or doesn’t want. What matters is what the Oligarchy wants, and the governments of all countries scrupulously obey the wishes of their masters. Do you think it is any different in Canada, a country owned and ruled by a female limey? Think again, Canuck!

        • murphyj87

          It is absolutely false that even 50% of Americans dont want Obamacare,

          45% of Americans want a Canadian style single payer system, while only 42% of Americans want insuarance run health care. 13% of Americans have no opinion.

          Most Americans think that Obamacare doesn’t go nearly far enough and should have gone right to a universal single payer system, as we have had in Canada since 1966..

      • http://batman-news.com samurai

        Source? Source? Source? Source? Source?
        Source? Source? Source? Source? Source?
        That many Americans? I think you are lying. My wife Sook Young is a nurse and she tells of Canadians coming to our hospital for surgeries they have to wait for in Canada. Why do you waste our time with lies? Like I said, care to cite a source on this? I don’t take anyone’s word for nothing. Here are 2 more articles about Obama bin Laden Care.
        http://www.eaglerising.com/2254/dave-ramsey-destroys-obamacare/
        http://www.eaglerising.com/2221/theres-nothing-affordable-affordable-care-act/
        Please make that popping sound and see what is actually going on around you. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
        You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
        “Impress upon children the truth that the exercise of the elective franchise is a social duty of as solemn a nature as man can be called to perform; that a man may not innocently triffle with his vote; that every elector is a trustee as well for others as himself and that every measure he supports has an important bearing on the interests of others as well as his own.”
        Daniel Webster

  • WTS/JAY

    Inside Canada’s health care privatization movement…

    The reason health care privatization is stepping to the forefront in the national debate is because the Canada Health Act has become a mangy, cost-addled money trap fed by annual increases well beyond the economy’s current abilities.

    The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), an international policy performance gauge, repeatedly ranks Canada as a mediocre healthcare supplier at best.

    read more: http://www.vancouverobserver.com/politics/investigations/canadas-health-care-privatization-activists-and-future-fragile-system

    • murphyj87

      Only the United States makes Canada look very good, since health care in the United States does not even rise to the level of mediocre, Health care in the UNited States is downright aweful and kills 45,000 Americans each year by denying them the health care they would have for sure if they were Canadians.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        More of your contrived lies. Why do you keep repeating the same lies over and over again, murphy? Are you trying to Propagandize ignorant readers?
        How many Canadians are dying as a result of earning $7000 less per year in GDP as compared to the US? Is starving somehow preferable in your pea-brain?
        My guess is that that extra $7000 would go a long way towards better Healthcare without having to use your Liberal Progressive Force on anybody.

      • WTS/JAY

        If Canada’s national health care system is so dang wonderful, why are so many Canadians coming to America to pay for their own medical care?

        And it’s not only pregnant women, like the one who recently had to drive to Montana to have her baby, who cross into the U.S. on a daily basis seeking health care.

        Why is the hip replacement center of Canada in Ohio–at the Cleveland Clinic, where 10% of its international patients are Canadians … Why is Brain and Spine Center in Buffalo serving about 10 border-crossing Canadians a week?

        Number of Canadians on waiting lists for referrals to specialists or for medical services–875,000.

        It would appear that Canadians with sufficient financial means are seeking medical treatment in a country where such waiting lists exist only in the the fond dreams of single-payer advocates.

        And what about the Canadians who don’t have the money to come here for care? I guess they just pray that their illnesses don’t kill them before the vaunted Canadian system can fit them in?

      • http://batman-news.com samurai

        Many Americans also die with healthcare coverage or adequate healthcare, so what is your point? Do you have one? I didn’t think so. Here are 2 articles about Obama bin Laden Care and 1 about Obama bin Laden.
        http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/10/11/the_let_it_collapse_chorus_grows
        http://www.joeforamerica.com/2013/10/new-numbers-spell-trouble-obamacare/
        Here is the one about Obama bin Laden the Indonesian citizen.
        http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/12/Obama-Rejects_Latest-House-GOP-Offer
        I guess the pretender wants everything, but he is not entitled to anything he does not earn. The American people do not want it, so let it die. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
        You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
        “In selecting men for office, let principle be your guide. Regard not the particular sect or denomination of the candidate – look to his character…When a citizen gives his suffrage to a man of know immorality he abuses his trust; he sacrifices not only his own interest, but that of his neighbor, he betrays the interest of his country.”
        Noah Webster

      • Robert Messmer

        That many killed every year by denying them health care–damn that is outrageous! Of course when you look at the 100,000 killed each year by doctors/hospitals being denied almost looks like the better treatment.

        • murphyj87

          Numerous studies show that those deaths you talk about only happen in American FOR PROFIT hospitals. The death rate in American non profit hospitals and in Canadian non profit hospitals (there is no other kind in Canada) is 12% lower than the death rate in American for profit hospitals. Hospitals only out for profit kill, as do the rationing and denial of American insurance companies out only for profit. .

          In addition, of the 38 studies on medical outcomes for cancer, heart disease, chronic illnesses, and all surgery in Canada and in the United States, 71% of them say that Canadians have better medical outcomes in Canadian hospitals than Americans with insurance run health care have in American hospitals.

          The fact that all Canadians, by law, cannot be denied the medical treatment they need in Canada and with no out of pocket cost, is the main reason that Canadians live 4 years longer than Americans do (and always have, for decades). Americans with health insurance have a 4 year shorter lifespan than Canadians who exclusively use Canadian health care (as 97% of Canadians do).

          Since 1966, when Canada began universal single payer health care nationwide, 2.1 million Americans have died because they were denied the medical treatment they needed by the insurance company bureaucrat wedged between Americans and the medical treatment they needed to live, and would have had if they had been Canadians.

          The Canadians that Americans are deceived into thinking stream, across the border to the US for medical treatment are really only a handful, and are outnumbered 700:1 by Americans who have always streamed across the border to Canada for medical treatment. The only real flow of people crossing the border for medical treatment is, and has always been, Americans crossing the border to Canada for medical treatment, whereas virtually all Canadians get all of their medical treatment in Canada in any, and all, circumstances.

          Studies show that over 90% of Canadians are satisfied with their access to medical treatment in Canada, while only 26% of Americans with insurance are satisfied, and 74% of Americans with insurance are dissatisfied, with their access to medical treatment in the United States.

        • murphyj87

          Numerous studies show that those deaths you talk about only happen in American FOR PROFIT hospitals. The death rate in American non profit hospitals and in Canadian non profit hospitals (there is no other kind in Canada) is 12% lower than the death rate in American for profit hospitals. Hospitals only out for profit kill, as do the rationing and denial of American insurance companies out only for profit. .

          In addition, of the 38 studies on medical outcomes for cancer, heart disease, chronic illnesses, and all surgery in Canada and in the United States, 71% of them say that Canadians have better medical outcomes in Canadian hospitals than Americans with insurance run health care have in American hospitals.

          The fact that all Canadians, by law, cannot be denied the medical treatment they need in Canada and with no out of pocket cost, is the main reason that Canadians live 4 years longer than Americans do (and always have, for decades). Americans with health insurance have a 4 year shorter lifespan than Canadians who exclusively use Canadian health care (as 97% of Canadians do).

          Since 1966, when Canada began universal single payer health care nationwide, 2.1 million Americans have died because they were denied the medical treatment they needed by the insurance company bureaucrat wedged between Americans and the medical treatment they needed to live, and would have had if they had been Canadians.

          The Canadians that Americans are deceived into thinking stream, across the border to the US for medical treatment are really only a handful, and are outnumbered 700:1 by Americans who have always streamed across the border to Canada for medical treatment. The only real flow of people crossing the border for medical treatment is, and has always been, Americans crossing the border to Canada for medical treatment, whereas virtually all Canadians get all of their medical treatment in Canada in any, and all, circumstances.

          Studies show that over 90% of Canadians are satisfied with their access to medical treatment in Canada, while only 26% of Americans with insurance are satisfied, and 74% of Americans with insurance are dissatisfied, with their access to medical treatment in the United States.

  • WTS/JAY

    The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care…

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_3_canadian_healthcare.html

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. No quarter! This is true. Sook Young will tell you that in the past year, 25 people have come to Elkhart General Hospital for surgeries they had to wait for in Canada. If their system is so good, then why do people have to wait for life saving operations? Why is there long waiting lines for other problems? Don’t listen to these morons that tell you good things about Canada’s healthcare system, for it is nothing but a crock of bull. Here are 2 articles about Obama bin Laden Care. One with Pelosi saying we have to implement it to find out what is inside it.
      http://www.lastresistance.com/3374/pelosi-implement-obamacare-changes-can-made/
      This one compares Obama bin Laden Care to Canada.
      http://www.lastresistance.com/3375/obamacare-website-debacle-magnifies-larger-problems/
      I guess when it comes to Obama bin Laden Care, we should start singing O, Canada! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “Those who wish well to the State ought to choose to places of trust men of inward principle, justified by exemplary conversation…And the people in general ought to have regard to the moral character of those whom they invest with authority either in the legislative, executive, or judicial branches.”
      Rev. John Witherspoon

  • http://batman-news.com samurai

    Ah, yes. Another day, more libturd/progturd logs roasting on the fire. I’ll show no quarter in this fight for our country against them. One thing that tends to get the left worked up is Christianity, our Christian founding, and Christian founding fathers. Here is an article that explains a certain part of what I’m talking about.
    http://www.americanvision.org/9559/dominionism-scares-leftists-frenzied-lies/#sthash.AWSsFzu5.L7XpRPnN.dpbs
    Keep up the good fight fellow patriots. No quarter for the libturds and progturds. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
    “Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord.”
    2 Peter 1:2

  • Had_to_be_said

    Here are a few indisputable (easily verifiable by anyone) facts:

    – We have a “heath care” disaster in the United States. This is why “healthcare reform” was able to be pushed into being with so little reasonable consideration of the “ACA”.

    – Americans pay the highest cost for healthcare… in the world.

    – America has the highest prices for medicine… in the world.

    – America has some of the worst-quality healthcare in the industrialized world (according to virtually every independent, and reputable, analysis)

    – And, Americans have the lowest amount of access to Healthcare in the western-world.

    – The American healthcare-industry is one of the highest profit businesses in the world. And, healthcare-insurance is part of (not, in any way, independent from) the American healthcare-industry. And, no-one (beyond obvious-deceptions and blatant wishful-thinking) has been able to directly explain exactly how the “ACA” can actually address any of these issues. In fact, virtually everyone has already acknowledged that cost have already risen, obscenely.

    – “Mandating” purchasing insurance is expected to create between 10 and 15 BILLION dollars of extra profit every year (according to both economists and the health-insurance industry, itself).

    And finally…

    – Many of those that have, or will get, “Health Insurance” actually pay money to this industry, with no actual hope of being able to, in any real way, ever actually gain access to “HEALTHCARE” (I know… this is exactly why I previously dropped the employer health-insurance that I had. It was worthless. I paid every week for effectively nothing. But, now… just to avoid legal-penalties… money, that I just don’t have, is going to be forcibly extracted from my paycheck and given to this sham business-model.

    So this healthcare FRAUD (GIMME to the American healthcare-industry… under PENALTY OF LAW)… is an absolute abomination… Or should we say OBAMA-nation?

    • CJeanne

      As a long term healthcare provider, I agree that there were problems in American healthcare – but it was the best healthcare in the world! What needed to happen was resolution of ” pre-existing conditions” which could have easily been addressed, insurance across state lines would have created much more competition for healthcare, and medical law suits should have been addressed.
      If congress had been willing to work with healthcare providers to allow us to roll these improvements out and implement a more patient focused system – problems could have been resolved while still keeping the best healthcare in the world!
      The other huge impact on healthcare has been the huge increase in Medicaid, which goes along with the huge increase in entitlements overall under the obama administration. States should have been allowed to more directly impact that than the federal government continuing to promote the nanny state. Then focus could on wellness rather than treating illnesses – and being proactive in overall wellness.
      obamacare is control, rationing, depopulating the US, and increased tax income for the federal government.

      • murphyj87

        The United States has, and has always had, the 37th best health care system in the world. Among G20 nations, Canadian health care ranks 7th, American insurance run health care ranks 19th. Canada now,ranks and has always ranked, 7 to 10 places higher than the United States in health care

        If American insurance run health care is as good as you claim, why do 6 million Americans each year go to other countries to get the medical treatment that insurance company bureaucrats deny them in the United States, 2 million Americans each year to Canada for medical treatment alone.

        The United States only has the best health care in the world for the very rich. If you’re not among the very rich, you can;t get proper health care in the United States, but everyone has proper health care in Canada.

        Over 90% of Canadians.have a personal/family physician they see on a regular basis.
        Less than 50% of Americans have a personal/family physician they see on a regular basis.

        The only control, rationing, and depopulating of the US is, and has always been, done exclusively by the insurance company bureaucrats who stand between Americans and the health care they need,

        Since 1966, when Canada began universal single payer health care nationwide, and all Canadians have had whatever health care they needed in Canada, 2.1 million Americans have died because they were denied the medical treatment they needed in the United States, by the insurance company bureaucrat wedged between Americans and the medical treatment they needed to live, the medical treatment they would have had, and been guaranteed both as a right and by law, if they had been Canadians.

  • John

    I do not see the ileagel imagrants complaining, it will probably benifit them more than any one else in this country.

  • Bob666

    Government shutdown poll: GOP disapproval grows

    While voters are angry with everyone in Washington, Republicans continue to see the brunt of the blame and growing disapproval, according to a new poll out Monday.

    Seventy-four percent of Americans disapprove of the way Republicans in Congress are handling negotiations over the budget, the Washington Post-ABC News poll shows. This is up four points from last week’s poll and up 11 points since the start of the shutdown.

    Democrats also see a majority of Americans disapproving how they are handling the negotiations, but that number remained steady from last week’s poll at 61 percent. This is a smaller climb from 56 percent at the start of the shutdown.

    Republicans are also struggling with support from within their own party. The Washington Post reports that 49 percent of self-identified Republicans approve and 47 percent disapprove of the job Republican lawmakers are doing. Alternatively, more than six in 10 Democrats approve of the job Democratic members are doing.

    Obama as well saw a decline in his approval rating with 53 percent of Americans now disapproving of how he is handling negotiations. This is up two points since last week and three points since the start of the shutdown.

    The poll was conducted Oct. 9-13 and surveyed 1,005 adults with a margin of error of plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      I understand what you are saying Bob, but what about the GOP saying we will start up everything, except Obama bin Laden Care? Obama bin Laden and Harry “Woody Allen” Reid turned it down. There is no such thing as having your cake and eating it too. If they are willing to restart the government, why does there have to be Obama bin Laden Care? Can’t they go by the spending at the sequester levels? Obama bin Laden and the libturds/progturds are acting like kids and not elected officials. Here is a message to the GOP in the House from Senator Ted Cruz.
      http://www.blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/cruz-repeats-call-to-stand-firm-against-obamacare-on-shutdown-debt-limit/
      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “Let each citizen remember at the moment he is offering his vote that he is not making a present or a compliment to please an individual – or at least he ought not so to do; but that he is executing one of the most solemn trusts in human society for which he is accountable to God and his country.”
      Samuel Adams

      • Bob666

        So Sammy,
        first you tell me the polls are reversed and now you acknowledge them?

        I’m not saying anything-just reporting information from a source #6 now. It is your choice to deal or not deal with reality.

        • WTS/JAY

          Polls are highly subjective, and should be taken with a grain of salt. Only a fool takes polls seriously.

          • Bob666

            Yo Jay,

            “Polls are highly subjective, and should be taken with a grain of salt”

            I agree with you on that Jay, like the guy who uses NRA polls to tell us how all of America feels about guns and every potential law about guns.

            But (and you knew there had to be one) when a multitude of polls from diverse sources start to say the same thing, then one has to drawing a statistical (and probabbly accurate) conclusion.

            Random samples are one thing, a very large group of random samples paint a pretty accurate picture.

          • WTS/JAY

            Bob: “I agree with you on that Jay, like the guy who uses NRA polls to tell us how all of America feels about guns and every potential law about guns.”

            So why are you following in his, “that guy’s”, footsteps?

            If you consider the “polls” taken by “that guy” who uses NRA polls to tell us how all of America feels about guns and every potential law about guns, suspect, why then do you engage in the same, questionable-behaviour, and feeding us bull-chit poll results? Because two-wrongs make a right? Very illogical of you, Bob!

          • Bob666

            Yo Jay,

            did you finish reading my post?

            “But (and you knew there had to be one) when a multitude of polls from diverse sources start to say the same thing, then one has to drawing a statistical (and probabbly accurate) conclusion.

            Random samples are one thing, a very large group of random samples paint a pretty accurate picture.

            It would appear the GOP caved today.

          • WTS/JAY

            The GOP didn’t cave. Rather, both gangs came to an agreement or a deal where both will make off like bandits!

    • Jana

      Bob, The only real reason the Republicans are blamed is because the MSM is so biased and has become such a Socialist media that the truth just isn’t out there and isn’t told. So of course the Republicans are going to be blamed. It doesn’t matter. Right is right and when something is important enough to make a stand for, then we must make that stand.( I see you do it all of the time)

      First we did try to get the ACA defunded, then delayed. That didn;’t work, but we tried. Now we are trying to get the spending under control. At least slowed down a bit.
      Not all of the Repubs are for a spending slow down but they have to pretend they are thank goodness as some really are for this slow down. No Democrat is and for sure Obama isn’t even though before he wasn’t he was. Obama used to say it was unpatriotic to raise the debt limit. He used to say it showed very poor leadership to have to raise the debt limit.
      I have to say this is one of the few times I agree with him.

    • WTS/JAY

      House Republicans Schedule Obama Impeachment Hearings, Oct 14, 2013

      GOP Leaders Cite Inability to Halt Government Shutdown…

      Republicans in the House of Representatives have scheduled impeachment proceedings against President Obama, claiming his inability to halt the federal government shutdown makes him unfit for office.

      Congresswoman Michele Bachmann introduced a resolution to impeach Obama this morning and referred the matter to the House Judiciary Committee. Senior aides close to judiciary chairman Bob Goodlatte say hearings will begin Thursday.

      “I think it’s high time President Obama be held accountable for his crimes,” explains Bachmann. “For two weeks now, vital government services have been disrupted, federal workers have gone without pay and national memorials have been closed, all because of the president’s refusal to negotiate over Obamacare.

      “This isn’t just poor leadership. The Obama administration is corrupt to the core. The scandals surrounding the IRS, Benghazi, the Fast and the Furious (sic) and Solyndra have shown us this cabal will do anything to stay in power.

      “But in shutting down the government President Obama has committed economic treason against the United States of America, and he must be removed before it’s too late. The Constitution provides us the mechanism of impeachment. It’s time to end this dictatorial regime and return the presidency back to the American people.”

      Sour Tea

      The U.S. federal government shut down on Oct. 1 after House Republicans refused to fund it unless President Obama agreed to repeal his signature health care reform, the Affordable Care Act, popularly known as Obamacare.

      Although most polls show that a majority of Americans blame Republicans for the shutdown, many in the Tea Party feel President Obama is at fault for not immediately acquiescing to their demands.

      “The tipping point for me was closing the World War II memorial,” says Texas Republican Louie Gohmert, who voted for the bill which effectively shut down the government. “I can’t believe Obama did that. I mean how dare he put politics ahead of our veterans.

      Read more: http://dailycurrant.com/2013/10/14/house-republicans-schedule-obama-impeachment-hearings/

      • Quester55

        It may become Too Little, Too Late.

        Waiting until the Enemy, Digs in, Builds his Defenses & puts up his own Gun placements , Establishes his Own Team of SPY’S & Snipers, & Bribes those persons, that pretend to be your Friends, is a Foolish Game, Indeed!
        The Republicans & Democrats that Stand Against De Fuhrer’s Health Trap, Should have Impeached the dung Pile, When He STOLE the first 6 Trillion to Pay off his other Bribes, Scams, Spy’s & Informants, Not to mention his own Off shore Accounts & Those FAILED Solar & Wind Powered Ventures That WE Tax Payers Paid For!
        I Say, Cover the Fuhrer with Pork Fat & Tie Pickled Pigs Feet on his Worthless hide & Send him to Downtown CAIRO, Egypt! In Care of the Muslim Brotherhood!

    • Craig Hardy

      Repubs would be doing better if they could shake off all the useless Rino’s: McLame, Goober Graham, Speaker Bonehead, Suzie Collins (the dizzy broad from Maine), Lamar Alexander etc. Why do people elect these fools?

      • Quester55

        ANSWER: For the Same REASON that FOOLS Elect DUNG PILES like De Fuhrer, Obama!

    • Quester55

      These POLLS are just about as Trustworthy, As De Fuhrer’s Health Care Scam is!
      If You bother to read Just the high Lights of this Bill from hell, you’ll quickly see, how anyone Joining it, Will be Selling His freedoms & Rights to Choose from that point on!!

    • Robert Messmer

      Gee and this is a surprize? MSM broadcasts 24/7 “Republicans are to blame” even though it knows the truth. When you repeat a lie long enough and loud enough people start to believe it.

  • http://batman-news.com samurai

    Keep up the good fight fellow patriots. No quarter! No quarter! Here are some articles about this great country of ours and how the libturds and progturds are destroying it.
    http://www.theblacksphere.net/2013/10/home-brave-longer-land-free/
    http://www.theblacksphere.net/2013/10/freedom-speech-religion-beatdown/
    http://www.politichicks.tv/column/consequences-shortsighted-nation/
    FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
    You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
    “Nothing is more important to the establishment of manners in a State than that all persons employed in places of power and trust be men of unexceptionable character. The public cannot be too curious concerning the character of public men.”
    Samuel Adams

  • Jim B

    In the words of the immortal Forest Gump, Stupid is what Stupid does. BHO, are you listening yet!

    • DUSQUS_gjlaEwoNV

      obummer never listens.

  • WTS/JAY

    Mainstream media turns on Obamacare, liberals suddenly SCREAMING MAD about rate shock, Healthcare.gov disaster….Wednesday, October 16, 2013

    The mainstream media loves Obamacare. They love it so much that when the disastrous launch of the healthcare.gov system was evident to anyone with an IQ above room temperature, the media tried to cover it up for over a week, repeating the ridiculous White House spin that claimed the site was only crashing “because it was so popular.” (Yes, people who call themselves “journalists” actually bought into this hoax.)

    When that excuse crashed and burned, the media tried to say the glitches and error messages were no big deal because the site had a “new deadline” of mid-November, and it would probably be fixed by then.

    Immediately after the site launch, I went public with an analysis of the website, concluding thatHealthcare.gov was nothing short of an IT disasterwith zero chance of functioning by January 1.

    Since then, other programmers and IT project managers have independently confirmed what I found, and the consensus among programmers is now quite clear:

    “Healthcare.gov won’t work in a week, a month or even three months. It may actually take YEARS to get it working correctly, if ever.”

    This fact is finally starting to sink into the minds of mainstream media journalists.

    Now, two weeks after attempting to deny reality, the mainstream media is reversing course and actually beginning to scream about the disastrous launch of Obamacare by HHS / Kathleen Sebelius.

    They are only attacking this, of course, because the disaster makes democrats look incompetent and stupid, and they hate it when that happens because the entire paradigm of centralized government elitism is based on the assumption that democrats are smarter than everyone else (and government is more capable than any other institution).

    Here are just a few examples of mainstream media websites going off onHealthcare.gov:

    Forbes.com: Obamacare’s Website Is Crashing Because It Doesn’t Want You To Know How Costly Its Plans Are…

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/th

    CNN: After Two Weeks CNN Reporter Still Hasn’t Been Able To Sign Up For ObamaCare…

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/n

    Ezra Klein: “Obamacare is a big failure”…

    http://www.nationalreview.com/

    Anderson Cooper: White House is lying about enrollment numbers…

    http://patdollard.com/2013/10/

    Daily Kos (a hard-left liberal site): “Now, because of Obamacare, my wife’s rate is gong to $302 per month and mine is jumping to $284. I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any f##king penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?” The author goes on to say, “I realize I will probably get screamed at for posting this, but I can’t imagine I am the only Californian who just received a rate increase from Kaiser based on these new laws.”…

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/

    Washington Post: “The Affordable Care Act’s launch has been a failure” — “disaster” — “Is anybody going to be fired?”…

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/

    read the rest of the article here: http://www.naturalnews.com/042

    • hungry4food

      Big Business will lobby and get this to evolve you just watch and see I bet
      !!!!!!!!!!!!

      Read in this how they say ” Just the Mandatory part of implanting RFID
      Chips is the Myth , NOT the idea that it would be a Great TOOL !!!!!!!

      http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-microchip-implant.php

      NBC Prediction That We Will All Have an RFID Chip Under Our
      Skin by 2017

    • Quester55

      All The People Need, is a Hot Barrow of TAR & Feathers !
      That or a Good Fresh ROPE!

    • Robert Messmer

      You forgot their other excuse–it launched during the government shutdown. Yeah and what about the 3 and 1/2 years you had to work on it?

  • JAG

    Obummercare@healthkills.org…..is how the site should read!

  • Ranchman

    Every single bit of Obama’s signature legislation pieces-health care “reform,” amnesty, student loan reform, banking reform, etc-are designed to failt, not only ObamaCare. What does this mean? The website is wrought with juvenile mistakes, yet cost over $640 million. It reminds me of the [also] juvenile attempt at Obama’s long form “birth certificate.” The thing looks like a kindergartener’s project with poster board and crayons. What’s up with these amateurish attempts to make something look official? It just doesn’t make any sense at all. It’s the same with his so-called “leadership” style, which is non-existent. Obama is either clueless in all things or else he has some sort of agenda 180 degrees out from what he claims it is. I’ll take the latter, thank you very much. I think Obama’s agenda for the American people is still having the final touches put on it, everything else is smoke and mirrors, a distraction. We’re being blinded by the magicians right hand, which is moving and gesturing but doing nothing, while his left hand is the one we should be watching. Something’s up and I don’t think we’re going to like whatever it is. He’s already proven beyond a doubt that he could care less what anyone who disagrees with him thinks. He’s also gotten away scot-free with so much, including the birth issue, that he feels invulnerable. Everything about him just makes it feel like something bad is headed our way.

    • Roy Fredrichsen

      When I was in the military we were led by officers ahead of us. Obama prefers to lead from the rear because he doesn’t know how to lead since all he was is a Community Organizer which hasn’t been defined yet. We always said guys like him being in the rear was because he was a coward.

      • Quester55

        WAS, IS & Always will BE a COWARD!
        The Strangest thing is, Though he’s Attempting to Kill off the Democrats, those Folks are still to Blind, Deaf & DUMB, To Care About it!!

    • Dennis

      0bama is the HEAD of the muslim brotherhood, he’s building a army, he has put the muslim brotherhood back in power in the middle east, he’s funding them, and arming them, they are crossing our southern borders in mass numbers, there are 35 muslim training camps in the US,
      0bama want to destroy America and ALL it’s people, and its coming soon.
      (1) A Depression
      (2) Hunger – Mass starvation
      (3) Chaos
      (4) Marshall Law
      (5) FEMA Camps / Death Camps

      • Quester55

        You left out Genocide for those that Refuse to Renounce their JEWISH & Christian Faith!

  • Carl-Cathy Wisnesky

    Let us all get real on this Affordable Care Act. The real purpose is NOT to provide health insurance to those that don’t have it. Under the disguise of this claim, our current government has found yet another reason & way to (1) tax, fine, and raise the cost of the insurance on the working people, (2) borrow money from foreign counties leaving future generations with a crushing debt & interest payment, & (3) invent (print) money out of thin air devaluing the purchasing power of the US dollar thereby making every income earning citizen poorer; all to help pay for the health insurance of SOME citizens – these steps are called INCOME REDISTRIBUTION from those that earn it to those that don’t – which is the main tenant of SOCIALISM. But we are supposed to be a Constitutional Republic, not a Socialist State so this is “Fundamentally Changing The USA” (B. Obama). In the entire history of man, EVERY attempt at a Socialist form of government has collapsed & failed because, “The problem with Socialism is that eventually it runs out of other peoples’ money. (M. Thatcher). Most recent examples of this failure are Argentina (has revalued & deflated its citizens’ money 3 times) & the FORMER USSR (Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics), which after the collapse is no longer the USSR but now is just Russia.
    Welcome to the USSA (United Socialist States of America).

    • Quester55

      When your right, your right!

  • KennyLLC

    Try “insurance tyranny” for a change. And don’t forget to mention the 16 day bribe-Toberfest they call a “shutdown”:
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/02/05/obamacare-a-deception/

    • Roy Fredrichsen

      Yeah! And it costs 3 Billion or more and they want us to pay for it.

      • KennyLLC

        If the sob’s had to live like most of the working class in the last decade or more they would have killed themselves by next week !
        Healthcare : what’s that ? And Obamacare is a joke !
        A pension plan: What the hell is that ?
        They are absolutely clueless, but we are supposed to give back-pay to “non-essential personnel”.
        What part of “non-essential” do they not understand ?

  • Quester55

    Just What does De Fuhrer think he’s going to do with 50+million American Prisoners, If they Refuse to Join his Communistic Death-Care Program ?
    The Food & Clothing alone will cost more then the fines that He plans to Charge for those that Op-out of This Scam!
    In fact, the only Joy that this scam is generating for me, Is the Look on the Faces of The Democrats, as they Slowly come to the Understanding that Their Fuhrer is Leading them into an Inescapable Pit of Horror, THAT THEY SUPPORTED!!
    Funny, Have you’ve noticed how The Clinton’s have been keeping their distance for the last month or so?

    • Roy Fredrichsen

      The Clintons are keeping a low profile because Hillary is planning to run for president in 2014– IF she can overcome Bengazi

      • Quester55

        Sad, Oh How Sad, To think that Another Communist is running for Queen, is both SAD & Sickening!

        To make matters worse, That Face!, That Mug of her’s could Sink a Battleship quicker than any Torpedo ever could!

      • ΔИθᴎЎϻɸᵿƧ

        Hitler-y can’t run for POTUS until 2016

    • Dennis

      Q, Just What does De Fuhrer think he’s going to do with 50+million American Prisoners, If they Refuse to Join his Communistic Death-Care Program ?
      A, He plans to Kill you.

      • Quester55

        Really?, Gosh Guess I never thought of that?!

    • Robert Messmer

      That is to “clean up” Hilary “What Difference Does It Make ” Clinton’s image to make sure she can take over in 2016. Of course the Clinton’s are banking on Obama NOT declaring martial law and naming himself as Dictator for Life.

  • Dennis

    Not to change the subject, but when you add Marco Rubio and the gang of eights Amnesty Bill on top of 0bama-no-care, you have successfully destroyed America.
    Voting will never fix it, it will never be changed by any party in WDC,
    There is No peaceful way out of this.